So, did Steve's blog post disappear for anyone else?

This becoming anything but the AICC would be a travesty. Pure & simple it would be one of the most backwards Oklahoma decisions made over the last century.

I think it would make for a great resort-type hotel to integrate with Riversport. Seems it would be very easy to lure a high-quality developer with the land and existing structures available for adaptive re-purpose. Might also be possible to set aside enough adjacent land for a golf course, which was originally part of the AICCM plan.

Unfortunately, Pointe Vista comes to mind but I know what you mean and pretty much agree the best course might be for the city to reclaim their interest and move on. I would hope OKC would keep that same ability to reclaim if any next group falls through too.

Oh good grief guru, it wasn't intended to be misleading and you know that. Regardless of how many well-meaning people there are at the Capitol, they obviously don't have the horsepower to get this through the wall of demagoguery. State government here is broken. The City is willing and ready to move on if it has to. End of story. Thanks for the $90 million.

Not trying to split hairs, and not implying you "intended" to mislead. Just pointing out that this had the votes to pass the House, where it was not allowed to be heard. Do you think the pledged support from those who said they would vote for it was not real? Just curious. And I agree with both you and Rover about the morons running our state.

So, did Steve's blog post disappear for anyone else?

I just tried and it's been removed.....

I wish the speaker had let it go to a vote, even if he strong armed party members who supported to back down.
But if the only way to get your way is to not let a vote happen because a clear majority will vote contrary to the elected leadership .... that's just sad, irrespective of the issue being blocked. Lead damn it. Sometimes leading means telling folks to stand tall and be counted, even when you do not agree with the count.

Not trying to split hairs, and not implying you "intended" to mislead. Just pointing out that this had the votes to pass the House, where it was not allowed to be heard. Do you think the pledged support from those who said they would vote for it was not real? Just curious. And I agree with both you and Rover about the morons running our state.

No, totally believe it was real. It's just that those people have been shown to have no real power in the face of the few individuals holding our government hostage. I'm pointing out that nothing productive or worthwhile can be accomplished at the Capitol right now - from EITHER side of the aisle - even with majority support. It all has to pass through a narrow, myopic bottleneck. Anyone tempted can spare me the civics lesson; I know that committees, majority party politics and the associated rigmarole are a part of the system and not unique to the Oklahoma legislature. I will guarantee that this nonsense is not the way our founding fathers intended legislative institutions to work.

My strong suggestion is this, take back the property and complete in Full Design. Use the tax revenue to pay the note back for the city and any dollars that the city does not get re-covered in that investment, then hold the state responsible. The State of OK can begin placing "a rainy day fund" in this "account" for 11 years. Then begin to pay back the city from year 11-15 until 100% + interest for the City.

Agree!

We need to finish the museum as originally planned. Maybe this could be a part of MAPS IV Riverfront Development. There is too much at stake to just auction this land+building off to a developer. Take the $40 million in pledges and get started; meanwhile go back to the legislature next session to secure their pledge with a backup plan if the state doesn't come through...


If the City has $80 million laying around there are a lot better things to spend it on than the AICC. That will be 4 more miles of Streetcar track which will produce light years more spinoff development than the AICC ever will.

As far as the commuter rail, the last figure on laying track was $1 million a mile; we have been authorized to lay around six to 13 miles of track for rail; that's a start. Would be nice if we could increase that to 75-100-150-200 miles as a part of future MAPS to initially include Phase I (Del City-Midwest City), Phase II (Moore-Norman), Phase III (Edmond), and Phase IV (Yukon-El Reno); partner with these communities as a project. Would love to eventually see high speed commuter rail between Oklahoma City-Tulsa.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

Commuter rail and streetcar are two different things.

State leaders say they'll try to solve Indian museum funding issue | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahomas-lawmakers-say-theyll-try-to-solve-indian-museum-funding-issue/article/4850715)

The Speaker is being less than honest in my opinion.

The Speaker commented to the reporter the Legislature needed to find a way to resolve this matter.

They had a way to do it.

It was supported, indeed passed, by the Senate, and supported by the Governor, the top elected state official in the Speaker's own party.

The House he oversaw, by a clear majority, supported the plan sent to the House by the Senate. The Governor would have signed it.

The Speaker ignored the will of the majority in the House, and thus the elected representatives of the majority of Oklahomans, based on how those majority level votes broke down by political party.

The Speaker had a way. The Speaker had the votes. The Speaker lacked only personal leadership.

That the state will not resolve this now, but will instead spend roughly 60,000 per month, for 9 to 12 more months, at a minimum, to avoid deterioration and provide security for the site, is a failure that rests squarely on the shoulders of Speaker Hickman.

Solely due to a lack of leadership, the state can not take care of its business, even when the votes exist. I now feel if OKC wants to call the state on Speaker Hickman's failure of leadership and take back the property ... OKC, go get your dirt, and all the nice presents the state left for you on it.

Commuter rail and streetcar are two different things.

My Bad...

Thanks for the correction!

Thank you, Kevin Pate, for saying what I was trying to say to Urbanized.

So then...we agree? Apparently nobody who wants to pass this, despite their best intentions, has the horsepower to overcome the whims of an ideologue Speaker. Yep, we agree.

Unfortunately, the Speaker thinks he has power and is enamored with it. But, he only has power to block, not to lead. This is just a very visible example of his weakness of mind and leadership. It is one thing to say no, it is quite another to say no and replace it with a good alternative. To keep saying you are going to make it happen and then not be able to deliver should be embarrassing to him and his party.

So then...we agree? Apparently nobody who wants to pass this, despite their best intentions, has the horsepower to overcome the whims of an ideologue Speaker. Yep, we agree.

I've been reading you and soonerguru's posts and have read them both to say the exact same thing. I don't think you guys recognized that. On my observance I am confident you two agree.

This is what I'm going to do Hickman from Fairview...

..If the City re-claims this property and has to pay (one more cent) on your project, I'm gonna get the largest Electronic HD Billboard ( just like Audrey M did with " Still Hiring" ) and place it in front the AICC & I-40 and I'm gonna run that ad w/ your picture on it. This sign will run with this... "This Failed Project was brought to you by this guy from Fairview, be sure to Thank him".

And I won't Run out of Money like you did. I will Pre-pay the lease for 10 years.

...and if Ms. Fallin doesn't do her part in "pulling this through", she will get added to this "Promotion Campaign" too. We would not want to leave anyone out that is due credit for this "failed" project.

I'm not for this project, I'm just against failure.

This " Embarrassment Mountain or Hickman Hill " has a cost of $60K p/mth in security & small operational items (and it's not even opened yet). We need to send the invoice to Hickman's house in Fairview, then we could see how fast he get's this project off high-center.

Hickman, get this done, or get out. ....this is 4th grade economics and you are having trouble w/ the easy stuff ? ...I can speak for the entire state of Oklahoma when I say, You are an embarrassment.

This is what happens when all the good people quit lending themselves to our state government, we get the left-overs. And I say that as one of the most stringent conservatives here.

Hickman, just because you are the Speaker of the House, doesn't make you good at it. As a State with you in the lead, we are weaker. ( This is the reality of your position, ...failure. )

Hey Hickman, I was wondering if your Great Grandfather (x10) was also part of the Stone Movement Party during the Stone Henge Projects ? ...they were going to have a full size cathedral and some guy named Hickman voted it down ?

Hickman, did you realize that OKC is the most visible part of our state? ...and you choose to leave this project ( I -40 & I - 35 ) in ruins?

That state of Oklahoma ( The People ) are more dumb today because of your help. Thank you, Hickman from Fairview.

The Speaker is being less than honest in my opinion.

The Speaker commented to the reporter the Legislature needed to find a way to resolve this matter.

They had a way to do it.

It was supported, indeed passed, by the Senate, and supported by the Governor, the top elected state official in the Speaker's own party.

The House he oversaw, by a clear majority, supported the plan sent to the House by the Senate. The Governor would have signed it.

The Speaker ignored the will of the majority in the House, and thus the elected representatives of the majority of Oklahomans, based on how those majority level votes broke down by political party.

The Speaker had a way. The Speaker had the votes. The Speaker lacked only personal leadership.

That the state will not resolve this now, but will instead spend roughly 60,000 per month, for 9 to 12 more months, at a minimum, to avoid deterioration and provide security for the site, is a failure that rests squarely on the shoulders of Speaker Hickman.

Solely due to a lack of leadership, the state can not take care of its business, even when the votes exist. I now feel if OKC wants to call the state on Speaker Hickman's failure of leadership and take back the property ... OKC, go get your dirt, and all the nice presents the state left for you on it.

Yes! Harness that rage Kevin, love this post. State politics has just recently become the most rage worthy thing in OKC.

Hey Hickman, I was wondering if your Great Grandfather (x10) was also part of the Stone Movement Party during the Stone Henge Projects ? ...they were going to have a full size cathedral and some guy named Hickman voted it down ?

Hickman, did you realize that OKC is the most visible part of our state? ...and you choose to leave this project ( I -40 & I - 35 ) in ruins?

That state of Oklahoma ( The People ) are more dumb today because of your help. Thank you, Hickman from Fairview.

What about the idiots who voted him to be their speaker? Don't they deserve a share of the blame?

No soonerguru. Simply for this reason. A fair share of those who put Hickman in as Speaker were in favor of the Senate plan. As I noted earlier, a clear majority of the House membership, which by necessity has to include members of the Speaker's party, would have voted for the plan if a vote had been permitted. This was not a Dem v. Repub. fight. There was absolutely bipartisan support.

The Speaker decided there would be no vote unless there was a majority of House Republicans ready to vote in favor of the plan. The Speaker chose to play politics for politics sake. The Senate was already on board, including members of the Speaker's party. The Gov., also of the Speaker's party, was prepared to sign if it was sent to her. A MAJORITY of House members were on board to vote yes. So without question, the elected folks of a majority of Oklahomans were comfortable it was time to go forward and kick this in gear after a too long delay.

The Speaker, though holding a leadership position, simply failed to lead. This rests on Speaker Hickman as his personal failure of leadership, not his party as a whole.

Despite the once high hopes I had for this project, I find I am now fine for 5 members of the OKC council to do what the Speaker's own party could not do get their leader to do, and that is make a freaking decision since the state could not manage to do so, yet again.

I've been reading you and soonerguru's posts and have read them both to say the exact same thing. I don't think you guys recognized that. On my observance I am confident you two agree.

No, I've recognized from the beginning that we are saying the same thing. I don't even understand why guru took issue with it, but he obviously did on some level. At the end of the day I think we can all agree that the legislative approach to this issue has sucked.

So many "+"1 and "likes" to hand out. I have never been more fed up with our state government!

So many "+"1 and "likes" to hand out. I have never been more fed up with our state government!

And sadly few will note what has been happening and send them right back for another term to do nothing.

And sadly few will note what has been happening and send them right back for another term to do nothing.

In this instance they aren't doing "nothing", they are undoing what has been done.

In this instance they aren't doing "nothing", they are undoing what has been done.

Yes, but they are undoing it by doing nothing. My statement covers much more than just the AICC though. :wink:

You know something else I find inconsistent - is many of the same people 'outraged' about this piece of art also support The State of Oklahoma building a Native American Cultural Center which by its very nature is the State taking ownership of Native American culture, boxing it up, marketing it and selling it at a profit for the State. Go figure.

What profit?

This whole project has been sold on its economic impact, from the state touting its $2 billion impact, the City trying to get their hands on sales tax dollars, to the Chamber businesses wanting some profit off the visitors. Lost in this whole debate is the State government SELLING Native American heritage and culture. It would be one thing if the State was the only provider of this culture and history but it isn't. Every tribe is marketing their own history.

The bottom line is that some just don't want this project to happen. There are politically motivated objections. There are those who don't value museums and cultural centers. There are cynics who will never believe any economic projections but their own. There are paranoid conspiracists who thinks its a big plot to steal our money. There are those that just don't see value in the combined stories of the Native Americans. Etc., etc.

At this point, we aren't likely to change anyone's mind. The republican tea party idiots are likely to never let this happen. After all, it is much easier to be against something than to be for it. Let's hope the city gains control. At least we might actually have a chance to make it happen.

Im all for bashing and blaming everything on the tea party (because they are truly the worst), but I'm very liberal and still don't want to see this project done. I think it was a mistake in the first place. Too much govt money has been spent on this already. I'm sure that the tribes could pull the funding together if they wanted to finish it, but they would rather hang it on the govt. Our government needs to be funding essential things like basic education and roads and funding public programs, not this. (Yes I get that museums are educational, but if our kids cant read, its pretty pointless).

I'm all for a museum, but there are better places for it. Don't most tribes in Oklahoma already have museums on each of their lands?

Something more commercial that utilizes the area and the river would be better served on that land... (Apartments, arenas, lifestyle centers, etc.)

Im sure this will just piss more people off on here, but everyone on here is treating this project like it is the end of the world. Just because Oklahoma City does not have a dedicated Indian museum on prime land wont change anything. Life will go on, other museums will be built as the city expands. I wish people on here would spend as much energy as they do whining about this center getting involved with local government and making a positive and meaningful change in their neighborhoods and cities.

Something more commercial that utilizes the area and the river would be better served on that land... (Apartments, arenas, lifestyle centers, etc.)



How about my own private residence (though I think the square footage might leave me a little cramped...)!

I don't know what the layout is on the inside, but it is a very cool structure from the outside, maybe it could be re purposed!

Im all for bashing and blaming everything on the tea party (because they are truly the worst), but I'm very liberal and still don't want to see this project done. I think it was a mistake in the first place. Too much govt money has been spent on this already. I'm sure that the tribes could pull the funding together if they wanted to finish it, but they would rather hang it on the govt. Our government needs to be funding essential things like basic education and roads and funding public programs, not this. (Yes I get that museums are educational, but if our kids cant read, its pretty pointless).

I'm all for a museum, but there are better places for it. Don't most tribes in Oklahoma already have museums on each of their lands?

Something more commercial that utilizes the area and the river would be better served on that land... (Apartments, arenas, lifestyle centers, etc.)

Im sure this will just piss more people off on here, but everyone on here is treating this project like it is the end of the world. Just because Oklahoma City does not have a dedicated Indian museum on prime land wont change anything. Life will go on, other museums will be built as the city expands. I wish people on here would spend as much energy as they do whining about this center getting involved with local government and making a positive and meaningful change in their neighborhoods and cities.

Not sure if its people acting like its the end of the world or more that this is the poster child of how inept our state govt is. And there are a number of ways this project shows how inept they are.
First, there were enough votes in the house to pass this but Speaker Hickman for unknown reaseons required that a majority of house Repubs say yes before he would bring it to vote, regardless that all Dems supported it and it would have passed.
Second, they risk losing $40mil in private funds because they dont want to take $40mil from a source (unclaimed property fund) that will never hurt the states bottom line or budget.
Third, we are spending over $60,000 a MONTH to just secure the half finished project so that it doesnt turn to a scrap yard.
Third, over $100mil has been invested towards a world class museum and all that the state has to do to finish it is use $40mil from unclaimed funds. So only $40mil left to complete what will be about a $200 museum.

Finish it! Quit proving Oklahoma is inept and does things only half-assed.

How about my own private residence (though I think the square footage might leave me a little cramped...)!

I don't know what the layout is on the inside, but it is a very cool structure from the outside, maybe it could be re purposed!

Mind holding some conventions or conferences there. We can kill 2 birds with 1 stone here.... Also, I expect a very awesome and very open and free house warming party.

Im all for bashing and blaming everything on the tea party (because they are truly the worst), but I'm very liberal and still don't want to see this project done. I think it was a mistake in the first place. Too much govt money has been spent on this already. I'm sure that the tribes could pull the funding together if they wanted to finish it, but they would rather hang it on the govt. Our government needs to be funding essential things like basic education and roads and funding public programs, not this. (Yes I get that museums are educational, but if our kids cant read, its pretty pointless).

I'm all for a museum, but there are better places for it. Don't most tribes in Oklahoma already have museums on each of their lands?

Something more commercial that utilizes the area and the river would be better served on that land... (Apartments, arenas, lifestyle centers, etc.)

Im sure this will just piss more people off on here, but everyone on here is treating this project like it is the end of the world. Just because Oklahoma City does not have a dedicated Indian museum on prime land wont change anything. Life will go on, other museums will be built as the city expands. I wish people on here would spend as much energy as they do whining about this center getting involved with local government and making a positive and meaningful change in their neighborhoods and cities.

OSUPeterson, yes, you're pissing me off (although you're completely entitled to your opinion). The fact is, the tribes didn't want this so much in the first place. OKC was NOT Indian Territory. People in the city and the state decided our capital city would be a good place for the museum. This was initiated by the State, not by the tribes.

Please, stop, take a breath, and recognize this: the tribes did not ask for this. This wasn't initiated by the tribes. This was initiated by the Legislature, and $90 million has already been invested. FACT: The tribes have committed funding to this project, despite the fact this was NOT a tribal endeavor.

$40 million more has been pledged in private donations; all that needs to happen is that the state needs to keep its end of the bargain and match the pledges. Keep in mind, when these pledges were sought, donors were promised the state would match.

To pull out now would be insulting and stupid, regardless of how excited (or not) you are about this museum.

I wonder how much of the already spent $100 million is actually 'wasted' money. Some portion of that money went to clean-up environmental contamination that needed to cleaned up regardless.

Im all for bashing and blaming everything on the tea party (because they are truly the worst), but I'm very liberal and still don't want to see this project done. I think it was a mistake in the first place. Too much govt money has been spent on this already. I'm sure that the tribes could pull the funding together if they wanted to finish it, but they would rather hang it on the govt. Our government needs to be funding essential things like basic education and roads and funding public programs, not this. (Yes I get that museums are educational, but if our kids cant read, its pretty pointless).

I'm all for a museum, but there are better places for it. Don't most tribes in Oklahoma already have museums on each of their lands?

Something more commercial that utilizes the area and the river would be better served on that land... (Apartments, arenas, lifestyle centers, etc.)

Im sure this will just piss more people off on here, but everyone on here is treating this project like it is the end of the world. Just because Oklahoma City does not have a dedicated Indian museum on prime land wont change anything. Life will go on, other museums will be built as the city expands. I wish people on here would spend as much energy as they do whining about this center getting involved with local government and making a positive and meaningful change in their neighborhoods and cities.This museum will/might become a world class facility and needs to be built! When you want nice things, you need to spend the money. It is so dumb how once something gets over a hundred million dollars, it suddenly becomes too expensive here. This museum is supposed to be on par of Smithsonian quality and that would likely put it on the map as one of the nicest museums in the nation, would it not?

This is about bringing a world class museum experience to OKC allowing people to view all the tribes in Oklahoma in one place using it as a learning tool.

OSUPeterson, yes, you're pissing me off (although you're completely entitled to your opinion). The fact is, the tribes didn't want this so much in the first place. OKC was NOT Indian Territory. People in the city and the state decided our capital city would be a good place for the museum. This was initiated by the State, not by the tribes.

Please, stop, take a breath, and recognize this: the tribes did not ask for this. This wasn't initiated by the tribes. This was initiated by the Legislature, and $90 million has already been invested. FACT: The tribes have committed funding to this project, despite the fact this was NOT a tribal endeavor.

$40 million more has been pledged in private donations; all that needs to happen is that the state needs to keep its end of the bargain and match the pledges. Keep in mind, when these pledges were sought, donors were promised the state would match.

To pull out now would be insulting and stupid, regardless of how excited (or not) you are about this museum.+1

If you can believe previous posters, the concept started with the Governor of the Chickasaw Nation: Bill Anoatubby.

This whole thing was actually initiated by Chickasaw Nation Gov. Bill Anoatubby who lobbied to form the nonprofit for the specific purpose of building one big attraction that would showcase the American Indian culture in Oklahoma.

He's been the driving force behind this and has worked to at least get support from the other tribes, but it seems the tribe support should have come first. On the other hand, Anoatubby probably knew they would be at best lukewarm to this idea due to want to draw people to their individual projects.

I believe the idea is still a good one but only if the tribes can get behind it.

From the outset, the state and everyone else knew it was going to cost at least $143 million to complete the first phase of this project. The only thing that has changed in the last several years is that figure has grown to $177 million. That's actually pretty typical for a huge project with a longer timeline, as the state only needs to reference the crosstown expressway project. The longer these things drag out, the more they are likely to cost.

So, they knew all the way along more funding would be required. It would have made sense from the beginning to not start the project until there were more firm funding sources, but everyone entered into the additional state allocations knowing the score. The only real change is the $34 million increase in cost and again, that's not horribly surprising.

So why now is everyone pointing fingers and talking about abandoning a project where $90 million has already been spent?

I was initially critical of this project because 1) a huge chunk of the funding was not secured and 2) the general nature of it meant that nobody was really taking ownership and getting behind it.

However, that is all water under the bridge and now we need to find a way to push through and finish the first phase. From that point, there may be the possibility to spin off part of the property to private investors for a hotel or more. But as it sits now, there is too much invested to merely walk away, especially since the people allocating the funding thus far have known all the way along a lot more money would be needed.

Future of American Indian museum project uncertain
By Murray Evans
Journal Record
Associated Press
Posted: 04:04 PM Monday, May 23, 2011

OKLAHOMA CITY – Work crews have spent five years building the $170 million American Indian Cultural Center and Museum southeast of downtown. Whether construction will continue is up in the air.

State Senate leaders last week rejected a $40 million bond package to supplement $67.4 million committed through previous bonds. Project developers fear work might stop in August, but they remain committed to seeing the project through to completion.

“It’s not ‘if’ we’re building it, it’s ‘when,’” said Gena Timberman, the museum’s executive director. “That vision still lives on. It’s important we stay committed to the task.” She fears stop-and-go construction will raise the cost of the project.

Work began in 2006, with more than $91 million already spent to date. To maintain construction, the museum received $6 million in federal stimulus money last October, and Gov. Mary Fallin and others supported a proposed $40 million bond package during the 2011 legislative session.

Project officials were hopeful additional state funds and privately raised matching funds would carry the museum to completion by 2015, but the sudden halt in funding leaves major questions: What will become of the museum and what will become of its potential as an anchor for commercial development?

A 2009 study by the Applied Economics research group said the project would create a $3.8 billion economic impact in the first two decades after its completion; state Sen. Dan Newberry calls it a “hole in the ground.”

State Sen. Patrick Anderson, R-Enid, called for an audit regarding the use of state dollars for construction of the project.

Timberman said she’d welcome such an audit and is always open to having legislators visit the construction site, to see firsthand how the money is being used.

The museum is being built along the Oklahoma River, near downtown at the junction of cross-country interstates 35 and 40. The 300 acres donated by the city of Oklahoma City for the museum used to be the site of an oil field, meaning extensive cleanup was required before construction could begin. A visitor center already is finished, along with a 90-foot-high promontory mound, and white steel support beams for the museum’s Hall of the People rise above the landscape.

According to the Native American Cultural and Educational Authority, a state agency that oversees the project, $50 million was used to remediate the site, to build the mound and visitors center, to start work on the museum’s galleries and east wing and for interim debt service. Another $41 million went for more gallery and east wing construction and initial work on the Hall of the People and performance facility.

Critics also say the state’s 39 federally recognized American Indian tribes should help pay for the museum. State Sen. Steve Russell, R-Oklahoma City, noted that “a certain tribe who is behind the Native American Cultural Center just bought two racetracks in Texas for more money than what they require from the state to finish the cultural center.”

The Ada-based Chickasaw Nation bought Remington Park in Oklahoma City for $80.25 million in January 2010 and this month paid $47.8 million for Lone Star Park in Grand Prairie, Texas. Chickasaw Gov. Bill Anoatubby is chairman of the NACEA board.

Through a spokesman, Anoatubby said he was “very disappointed” the bond issue didn’t receive a vote in the Senate.

The tribes maintain the state should fund its own project, because it’s the state that will benefit from the project. According to Timberman, they’ve already kicked in $4.7 million to help cover debt service.

“All along this has been a state-funded project that has been supported by other donors, including Cherokee Nation and other tribal governments,” Cherokee Nation spokesman Mike Miller said. “We’ve contributed what we said we would to the project, with the assumption that the state would do the same. Unfortunately, the state is having to make difficult choices due to budget circumstances. It is hard to expect other donors to put in more money to the state’s project when the state won’t.”

According to numbers prepared by the NACEA, delaying the project by one year will result in a $6.1 million increase in construction costs and $4 million in lost state tax revenues. The state would be liable for the unfinished project and would have to pay for security costs, Timberman said.

Demolishing the facilities that already have been built would cost $38.1 million, the study said. But building something else at the site doesn’t appear to be a suitable option for the state, because the land given to the NACEA by Oklahoma City would revert to the city if the museum isn’t built, city spokeswoman Jane Abraham said.

State Sen. Greg Treat, R-Oklahoma City, said the NACEA once said it wouldn’t need any more state money to finish the project, citing a May 2008 news release from the museum – issued about the time the Legislature approved a $25 million bond issue for the project – that said “The remaining $75 million (for the project) will come from private sources, including American Indian tribes.”

“A false dichotomy is being put forth: that we must either pass the additional $40 million bond, which the agency in 2008 said they wouldn’t need, or we must bulldoze the $91 million investment,” Treat said. “This is simply untrue, and no one is advocating this idea. We simply want to take a closer look at this issue before piling on more debt.”

As things stand now, Timberman said construction on the project will end in August and won’t resume until more funding is in place. It’s uncertain when that might occur. State Senate President Pro Tem Brian Bingman, R-Sapulpa, plans to conduct an interim study this year concerning proposed bond issues.

“We have a lot of capital needs in addition to existing bond obligations that need to be prioritized before we make decisions about additional bonding,” Bingman said.

Bingman, Fallin and House Speaker Kris Steele, R-Shawnee, all have said they’d like to see the project finished, but want to pay for it in a fiscally responsible fashion. They haven’t said what that might look like.

In the meantime, Timberman said museum officials are re-evaluating their fundraising plans. She had planned to use the carrot of the state money to encourage donors. Now, she said, raising money will be difficult, because potential donors don’t want to give money to “something that you don’t know will ever be finished.”

Still, she remains optimistic the museum will eventually open.

“We have one shot at this time to do it right,” she said. “We have one opportunity to brand Oklahoma as the gateway to Indian country. We have an opportunity to provide visitors a rare experience. … We’ve gone too far to turn back.”

As has been discussed earlier, the state is the entity behind this project with some help from the city of OKC. It was never intended to be funded by the tribes, although I know they were hoping to get more private contributions.

The tribes all have their own tourist attractions / cultural centers. It would be nice if they helped but 1) that was never a key part of the plan and 2) you can't blame them for not wanting fork over millions now.

Has anyone seen this video yet? Let's Finish It - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNjWeLKHEeo&sns=em)
It was tweeted by Shoshanna Wasserman with the AICCM this morning. It was paid for by the Chickasaw nation and features two former governors and is titled "Finish It." It's an interesting video, mainly because it's unclear who the intended audience is. Taxpayers? Legislators? CEO's of OKC companies? I'd love to get everyone's thoughts on this.

This is a state of OK project and they never really got buy-in from the tribes, other than to provide some content.

Before this project ever went forward they should have received firm commitments... Now that they are in trouble they are hoping the tribes will bail them out and that isn't happening.

You can't blame the tribes...

It would be like someone wanting to do a huge museum about the 50 states in Iowa then expecting Oklahoma to contribute millions.

The National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum was funded by seventeen states if I remember it correctly.

But, the difference is that it isn't the OKLAHOMA Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum and the cowboys that live in OK were never asked to contribute to it.

The Cowboy Hall was a completely different deal... 17 governors appointed trustees to select a site and OKC won because we donated the 37 acres plus offered to build the building.

This was a project that states already decided they wanted and set out to find the best situation. Plus, we are not talking about huge sums here... The entire structure was built for less than $1 million.

Just read in the archives that each state was given a fund-raising quota, whereby they solicited memberships. Most of the quotas were less than $80,000 and it all came from individual private donations.

How do you think it would have worked if OKC just built the museum, encountered a massive overrun then asked states for millions?

BTW, as long as we are talking about parallels to the Cowboy Hall -- and they are relevant because the two projects are similar in many ways -- it should be noted that OKC won the right to host the hall in 1955 but construction didn't even start until 1959.

Then, after several starts and stops including a complete stoppage for 2.5 years, it didn't open until the middle of 1965. And of course, that was a much, much less ambitious project.

People also forget that the Myriad Gardens took forever to get done the first time.

I'm sure the ACCIM will get done and I hope in the near future we'll look back on this as more or less part and parcel of these types of projects.

Some random thoughts (i looked a lot of this up for over in the Oklahoman thread but don't have it handy now so am doing it from memory)

• Originally proposed/authored by the same Native American State Senator that was quoted in the article as now being against more tribal contributions.

• The State HAS lived up to its original monetary commitment and gone well above and beyond

• Original plan was for the cost to be split evenly among 3 main entities:
1) State
2) Feds (Congress committed something like $30 million to it but didn't follow thru, eventually $16 million or so came but think it was thru something else)
3) Private donations (i.e. Tribes)

• As costs have escalated only the State has come up with more money. The other entities have fallen well short of their original financial commitments much less the increased amounts.

Also, the new director seems to have it backwards a bit (if I am reading it right). According to the state issued bonds, the States amount was to be matched by private donations (not the other way around)...back to the even split.

BTW, where is Larry OKC?

BTW, where is Larry OKC?

What made you think of that? :)

He's quoted in that post, and I don't recall seeing him post in a while.

His last login was in Feb.

By his profile page he hasn't been here since February.

Uh, Larry hasn't been here since February.

:tongue:

Does anyone know why?

From The Edmond Sun


Unfinished cultural center stuck without state funds
Janelle Stecklein
Special to The Sun

OKLA. CITY — The director of the stalled American Indian Cultural Center said he’s optimistic the project will be finished, even without the $40 million it was counting on from the state Legislature.

J. Blake Wade, executive director of the Native American Cultural and Educational Authority, said the agency hasn’t found a way to cover an estimated $80 million needed to finish the center near the junction of Interstates 35 and 40.

Supporters of the center, which has already cost $91 million, were counting on a $40 million infusion from the state’s unclaimed property fund. The Legislature adjourned without budgeting that money for the center.

Wade said he’s been talking to the state’s tribes, Oklahoma City, the governor and donors about the next steps.

“We all agree that we’re going to go ahead and complete it,” he said. “Somehow, some way, we will find the way. People think we’re dead but we’re not. We’re alive, and we’re going to finish it.”

Wade said his group — a state agency — remains in a holding pattern as it awaits word from state officials on how to proceed. Even stagnant, the project costs taxpayers about $68,000 a month for security and related expenses, he said.

The unfinished center, envisioned as a crown jewel recognizing more than three dozen tribes, sits on 300 acres of land along the Oklahoma River. It began as a joint-venture between Oklahoma City and the state, with local officials deeding the land for construction.

- See more at: Unfinished cultural center stuck without state funds » Local News » The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/local/x1760083913/Unfinished-cultural-center-stuck-without-state-funds#sthash.pwbvn9vc.dpuf)

Do you want to get the AICCM finished?


https://sp2.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.607989141026442466&pid=15.1https://sp2.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608007115461233570&pid=15.1https://sp2.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608030707716390994&pid=15.1

Oklahoma City needs to complete the American Indian Cultural Center Museum since the State of Oklahoma has reneged on its portion.

Here's the plan:

Invite some of our Tribal casinos or Las Vegas casino owners to develop this portion of the riverfront; give them 30 acres (zoned) of those 300 acres, allow them to build a casino hotel zoned on the 30 acres in exchange for completion of the AICCM.

Do you think we would have any interested parties or do you think that the state would want to revisit this project?

Suggestions, feedback please...


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

If it's a high-rise, high quality development like Winstar then yes.

If it's a high-rise, high quality development like Winstar then yes.


https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608037742880096592&pid=15.1https://sp1.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608011818452189461&pid=15.1

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.607995364431695600&pid=15.1http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/05/0b/fb/fd/winstar-world-casino.jpg
Winstar World Casino Hotel and Resort Pool 2 area, Thackerville, OK

http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

Very nice! Is this actually on the books or something you've proposed?

I would not call the Winstar high-quality.

Big yes, high quality no.

The Choctaw casino/hotel in Durant is much nicer than Winstar IMHO. They are in the process of building a second tower there as well.

Well, considering the fact that the above scenario would be strictly illegal, I would deem it unlikely.

Very nice! Is this actually on the books or something you've proposed?

Wasn't this what you proposed?

https://sp2.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608002687356045666&pid=15.1https://sp3.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608046977052968855&pid=15.1https://sp3.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608049528268065127&pid=15.1

The WinStar World Hotel is the focal point of the WinStar World Casino with 895 elegantly appointed guest rooms and suites. The hotel which connects directly to the Casino and has its own private tree lined drive makes WinStar World Casino a true overnight vacation destination.

We have a gambling city in our backyard; it's one of Oklahoma's best kept secrets. Dallas & Fort Worth knows about WinStar, wake-up Oklahoma City, you're slow; a World Class Casino in your backyard and you would think that this place was an underground operation. Texas knows, they shave in Oklahoma--sure they don't want it in their backyard.

WinStar World Casino - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinStar_Casino)


Well, considering the fact that the above scenario would be strictly illegal, I would deem it unlikely.

Make it legal. Zone it to where it's legal or turn it over to our tribes, would that make it legal? Let's get away from this 'holier than thou art attitude.'

We're a 'BIG LEAGUE CITY' now; You've got to give up something to get something. My grandmother, God rest her soul always said, 'You've got to bring ass to kick ass...'


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

It has more to do with tribal land boundaries. There was an exception made for Remington Park, but I wouldn't think the Chickasaw's wouldn't want it to compete with their casino on the south side of Norman....Riverwind or their Newcastle Casino in Newcastle.


Make it legal. Zone it to where it's legal or turn it over to our tribes, would that make it legal? Let's get away from this 'holier than thou art attitude.

Actually there wasn't a real exception made for Remington Park; it's not illegal for a tribe's business arm to own a horse race track, and if you own a race track in Oklahoma regardless of tribal status you are entitled to have electronic gaming. The Chickasaws own Remington Park, but it isn't "tribal land" in the sense that they could have full Indian casino gaming a la Riverwind, WinStar, etc.

Land elsewhere in OKC would qualify for neither type of gaming.

Maybe if the city or a developer built a Shetland pony race track down by the river?

Wouldn't need to be a longer big oval, leaving lots of extra space for gaming. :)

Wasn't this what you proposed?

https://sp2.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608002687356045666&pid=15.1https://sp3.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608046977052968855&pid=15.1https://sp3.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608049528268065127&pid=15.1

The WinStar World Hotel is the focal point of the WinStar World Casino with 895 elegantly appointed guest rooms and suites. The hotel which connects directly to the Casino and has its own private tree lined drive makes WinStar World Casino a true overnight vacation destination.

We have a gambling city in our backyard; it's one of Oklahoma's best kept secrets. Dallas & Fort Worth knows about WinStar, wake-up Oklahoma City, you're slow; a World Class Casino in your backyard and you would think that this place was an underground operation. Texas knows, they shave in Oklahoma--sure they don't want it in their backyard.

WinStar World Casino - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinStar_Casino)



Make it legal. Zone it to where it's legal or turn it over to our tribes, would that make it legal? Let's get away from this 'holier than thou art attitude.'

We're a 'BIG LEAGUE CITY' now; You've got to give up something to get something. My grandmother, God rest her soul always said, 'You've got to bring ass to kick ass...'


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif I really like your idea! I would support as it would lead to much more development around the area, just as long as the city and state can collect taxes on it.

I was thinking of creating a mini-vegas in the Adventure District w/ an artificial ski resort.

I really like your idea! I would support as it would lead to much more development around the area, just as long as the city and state can collect taxes on it.

I was thinking of creating a mini-vegas in the Adventure District w/ an artificial ski resort.

Great suggestion; now you're thinking Big Time... You wouldn't have any objections from the animals at the Zoo. Remington Park wouldn't be to thrilled unless they were given the green light to develop the area.

It's time for Oklahoma City to move forward; let loose of the state's apron strings.

Does anyone know the amount of time we will have to finish this project? Concerned about the $40 million in pledges already committed; a long delay could result in those who pledged to opt out.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

This thread has devolved badly