^

I completely agree.


Plus, it's a pretty amazing setting, building and grounds. Also highly visible and accessible from the interstates.

Could be special place in a city that is lacking in uniqueness.

I do know this... for years I hosted international visitors to Oklahoma City for business purposes, both as groups and as individuals. Virtually every one who came were disappointed that there wasn't more information, museums, living villages, etc. dedicated to the Native Americans. They appreciated the Western Heritage tours, but ALWAYS expressed wanting to know more about the NIs. Most Europeans, and many, if not most Asians that came were aware of the general story and were fascinated.

When I would travel to most countries I would be taken to things like living villages and cultural centers so that I could get a feel for history and context. That is missing here. That is why I am such a proponent of doing this right....of getting the story right....even if it means spending more and making the place more special.

Not to mention, many, many Oklahomans are pretty unaware themselves and will benefit from this exposure.

^^^^^^

Absolutely right.

I know it's supposed to be a state-wide facility, but I really think OKC missed out by putting the OK History Museum near the capitol rather than somewhere downtown.

It's a fantastic facility with great displays yet I bet most on this board -- a very engaged group -- have yet to go inside. I made it a point to go about a year ago and on a Saturday afternoon with a relatively new and extensive exhibit on Oklahoma in the Movies (which was/is fantastic), the place was almost deserted. So much so, you had to go into the gift shop to buy a ticket as they didn't have enough demand to also put someone at the ticket counter.

I would love to see an OKC History Museum and/or Land Run Museum downtown... We still have our limited resources spread way too far apart: OKC Museum of Art, National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum, the OKC Zoo, the OK History Museum and now the AICCM. Hopefully we'll be able to add the OKC Museum of Contemporary Art to this list yet still, none of these will be within walking distance of each other and only two will be anywhere near the streetcar line.

At least the AICCM will be on the River and close to most the downtown attractions.

Agree about the OK History Museum. Each time I've been it has been vacant of visitors. It is in an odd location and the most inviting view is hidden from the street. This museum suffers from location, location, location.

I think a quality Land Run museum could be outstanding. Tear up the parking lot by the bronze's at the canal and put up a cool homage to the people who founded our city and state. It is unique and a fascinating story. I could see a cool, mostly glass, kind of ethereal, Rand Elliot building that shows exactly how far we have come and what kind of people did it. With the AICCM a boat ride away, it would be a smashing success. Maybe MAPS IV ???

At least the AICCM will be on the River and close to most the downtown attractions.

And this would be a no-brainer as an eventually new stop for the river cruise boats.

And this would be a no-brainer as an eventually new stop for the river cruise boats.

I was going to ask if we knew if there was definitely plans for a boat dock...

I think a quality Land Run museum could be outstanding. Tear up the parking lot by the bronze's at the canal and put up a cool homage to the people who founded our city and state. It is unique and a fascinating story. I could see a cool, mostly glass, kind of ethereal, Rand Elliot building that shows exactly how far we have come and what kind of people did it. With the AICCM a boat ride away, it would be a smashing success. Maybe MAPS IV ???

I love the idea of a land run themed something, but I think being a major wing of an OKC history museum would be a better fit than a standalone museum. Because of the bad taste AAIC (right or wrong) has put in peoples mouths, it will be a hard enough sell to get an OKC history museum going much less that and a land run museum, especially when the two histories are so interlinked... that said the boat ride aspect is nice. Maybe this is a good purpose for Union Station (OKC history museum with large land run wing, and a shuttle -- or streetcar ride -- to the river for a ride to AAIC).

You know its funny because a few months ago a floated the idea of relocating the Cowboy Hall of Fame to a location along the river so that it and the AICC could be connected by water taxi and the response was overwhelming negative. Maybe it is just the messenger.

http://www.okctalk.com/current-events-open-topic/36190-relocate-cowboy-hall-fame-downtown.html

Not the messenger; just the message. The cowboy museum already makes sense in the Adventure District, has a beautiful setting topography-wise (no small feat in OKC), and the cost to replicate or better it elsewhere would be prohibitive. An unnecessary and silly expense.

I do agree that in retrospect the History Center would have gotten more engagement had it been located downtown (or in the Adventure District) where it was near similar attractions, but I think it was located in close proximity to the Capitol due to its mission and it's state-wide message.

The History Center is very nice. I have been there a few times and the location is not the easiest to access.

Anyhow, back at the farm, I wouldn't count on the Chickasaws being a big player at the AICC because they are expanding their own facility in Bricktown. The thing that is crazy is that Bill Anoatubby was the leading advocate for the AICC who got the ball rolling but now says he likes a Bricktown location because it will attract more people. Too bad he didn't feel this way 10 years ago.

Chickasaws to open art gallery, store in Oklahoma City's Bricktown district | News OK (http://newsok.com/chickasaws-to-open-art-gallery-store-in-oklahoma-citys-bricktown-district/article/3947809)


“Opening of this new gallery and retail space marks another significant step in our efforts to promote tourism in Chickasaw Country and throughout Oklahoma,” said Chickasaw Nation Gov. Bill Anoatubby. “Exhibit C offers a great venue to feature the diversity in arts and culture that are an integral part of the attraction Oklahoma holds for visitors from around the world. We believe this new space offers an opportunity for Chickasaw artists to connect with the thousands of visitors to Oklahoma City who have a genuine interest in Native American Culture.”

I guess there is always the chance that when the AICC opens they will close up shop and move their stuff to a State facility.

Good grief JTF, do you understand the differences between those two facilities? AICC is similar to what the Chickasaws have...in Sulphur. The Bricktown location is going to be fantastic for Bricktown and for them, but there is simply no comparison. They see the Bricktown location as a front door to send visitors to further explore Chickasaw Country, and it will be successful at doing so. But they will also be promoting attendance at AICC. There is no conflict in mission.

I guess I don't see the difference. You are closer to it so maybe you know something that isn't in the article. After all the money the state has spent I hope the tribes do support it because without them I am not sure what will be on display.

JTF, not at all to diminish what the Chickasaws are doing in the Bricktown location, but it will basically be a couple thousand square feet of gallery space, a chocolate shop and a visitor center designed to give people a TASTE of the culture of the Chickasaws. It will without question be designed to entice visitors to experience the rest of what the tribe has to offer around Sulphur and in the southern portion of the state, including their own large cultural center, the Artesian hotel, the Bedre FACTORY, etc.. But again, that is going to be a couple thousand square feet representing just one of many tribes who call Oklahoma home. It will be an excellent addition to Bricktown, and will surely attract additional visitors to the district.

On the other hand, the AICCM will be tens of thousands of square feet, include multiple museum and gallery spaces, have several factors MORE of activated outdoor space, and will represent dozens of tribes in Oklahoma, HUNDREDS of tribes in the U.S., and even more elsewhere in North America. It will purportedly be Smithsonian-quality and will likely see some partnership with and exhibits from the National Museum of the American Indian at the Smithsonian.

I really think it would be worth it to take the time it would take you to visit the AICCM website (http://www.theamericanindiancenter.org/) and learn more about the mission. While there it is worth noting that Governor Anoatubby is prominent in many of the photos and that the links are heavily-populated with Chickasaw-related sites, owing to their strong commitment to the tourism industry in Oklahoma. Looking at the site makes it pretty far-fetched to suggest that somehow the Chickasaws are competing with this facility. They are instead prominent supporters of it and its mission, which dovetails nicely with their own. That said, the Chickasaw Cultural Center in Sulphur is FAR more analogous to AICCM than the Bricktown center, though again, the Chickasaw center focuses on only a single tribe.

Cudos to Mary for this.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/3952962?embargo=1


Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin and the governor of the Chickasaw Nation met with state House Republicans behind closed doors Monday to press their case for state funding to help complete construction of the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum in Oklahoma City.

“Basically what I was encouraging them to do was to finish the project — quit kicking the can down the road,” Fallin said after emerging from the meeting. “It’s important for the state to be able to get a resolution to do something on the native cultural center.”

The disturbing part is that the house tea Partiers are not going to allow the full vote unless a majority of REPUBLICANS are for it. They could care less if a majority of OKLAHOMANS are for it. There are plenty of votes to pass it in full chambers but the Tea Partiers are holding it out for their "elite" members to decide for the rest of us. Disgusting.

The disturbing part is that the house tea Partiers are not going to allow the full vote unless a majority of REPUBLICANS are for it. They could care less if a majority of OKLAHOMANS are for it. There are plenty of votes to pass it in full chambers but the Tea Partiers are holding it out for their "elite" members to decide for the rest of us. Disgusting.

I saw that quote this morning in the paper and thought the same thing. Doesn't matter if a majority of those elected to office approve...it must be a majority of the GOP party. It is this kind of crap that is alienating the more middle of the road republicans.

The disturbing part is that the house tea Partiers are not going to allow the full vote unless a majority of REPUBLICANS are for it. They could care less if a majority of OKLAHOMANS are for it. There are plenty of votes to pass it in full chambers but the Tea Partiers are holding it out for their "elite" members to decide for the rest of us. Disgusting.

Do you have any data supporting the majority of Oklahomans are for using millions more of taxpayer dollars to finish this boondoggle? Before this broke ground, I predicted it would be a boondoggle, and it has been, over budget, no funding in place, and no one can explain why this facility costs as much or more than Chesapeake Energy arena. It's an empty aluminum shell and mound of dirt. Why does that cost $200 MILLION PLUS?

Do you have any data supporting the majority of Oklahomans are for using millions more of taxpayer dollars to finish this boondoggle? Before this broke ground, I predicted it would be a boondoggle, and it has been, over budget, no funding in place, and no one can explain why this facility costs as much or more than Chesapeake Energy arena. It's an empty aluminum shell and mound of dirt. Why does that cost $200 MILLION PLUS?

Do you have any data to support that Oklahomans are against it?

Do you have any data supporting the majority of Oklahomans are for using millions more of taxpayer dollars to finish this boondoggle? Before this broke ground, I predicted it would be a boondoggle, and it has been, over budget, no funding in place, and no one can explain why this facility costs as much or more than Chesapeake Energy arena. It's an empty aluminum shell and mound of dirt. Why does that cost $200 MILLION PLUS?

A majority of the people's reps are for passing it, but that isn't good enough for the tea partiers.

Yes people can explain the costs. You can't.

A majority of the people's reps are for passing it, but that isn't good enough for the tea partiers.

Yes people can explain the costs. You can't.

Where's the data to support your claim? Links? Sorry but your Cloward Piven (go ahead, Google It) tactics of demonizing tea partiers simply doesn't close your case.

Do you have any data to support that Oklahomans are against it?

I haven't seen ANY data support either argument, but supporting it "just because" doesn't sound like a savvy business strategy to me. I was a volunteer at the "ground blessing", but even as a college student/or recent graduate at that time(can't remember how long it's been), I could see all the politicians at that time using it for a publicity stunt, and years after construction most politicians wouldn't touch it with a ten foot poll because it would hurt their re-election chances. Yes, at this point we SHOULD finish it, but should have a smarter plan. As almost always with government projects, it's over budget, no hard data is provided to public (showing local support, funding mechanisms, how financially sustainable it will be after completion) nor WHY this needs to cost $200 MILLION Plus? I'd like to see data showing how much the Executive Director, Project Managers and any other people affiliated with this project have been paid. Do you not think this is a good idea for the PUBLIC to be provided with this data on a PUBLIC PROJECT?

Figure it out. There are 29 dems ready to vote for it and close to 50% of thE repubs. It would pass, but the zealots won't pass it out of committee until they achieve a sure greater than 50% of REPUBs are ready to vote for it. They don't want democracy, they want power. Btw, the Senate wants it and the Gov wants it. It's being held hostage by the zealots.

I don't have to demonize the OK tea party zealots, they do a good job of doing it to themselves.

OMg, it it can be Googled, it must be true. :-)

You use a percentage of Republicans, but only a number with Dems, what is the percentage of Dems ready to vote? Let's compare apples to apples. In the meantime, keep using your Cloward-Piven extremist tactics the progressives use to get their way. Not saying the "zealots" as you put it are right, but demonizing people to stand up for what they believe in is definitely NOT RIGHT.

You use a percentage of Republicans, but only a number with Dems, what is the percentage of Dems ready to vote? Let's compare apples to apples.
Do you know how it works? There are enough votes to pass it on the floor. Just not in the zealot controlled committee.

BTW, I am against any group that is arrogant enough to think they are saving everyone from themselves. Let the majority of the elected reps vote and it would pass.

Do you know how it works? There are enough votes to pass it on the floor. Just not in the zealot controlled committee.

No, I really don't care to be honest, just sick of progressives constantly blaming everything on George Bush and tea partiers, the lame argument gets old. Compare apples to apples.

You sure are passionate on this issue, do you have ANY ties to this project?

You use a percentage of Republicans, but only a number with Dems, what is the percentage of Dems ready to vote? Let's compare apples to apples. In the meantime, keep using your Cloward-Piven extremist tactics the progressives use to get their way. Not saying the "zealots" as you put it are right, but demonizing people to stand up for what they believe in is definitely NOT RIGHT.

100%.

I love the idea of a land run themed something, but I think being a major wing of an OKC history museum would be a better fit than a standalone museum. Because of the bad taste AAIC (right or wrong) has put in peoples mouths, it will be a hard enough sell to get an OKC history museum going much less that and a land run museum, especially when the two histories are so interlinked... that said the boat ride aspect is nice. Maybe this is a good purpose for Union Station (OKC history museum with large land run wing, and a shuttle -- or streetcar ride -- to the river for a ride to AAIC).
ixsnay on a land run museum. Our fellow native citizens don't find the history quaint. Land run celebrations need to go the way of Columbus Day celebrations.

I guess I don't see the difference. You are closer to it so maybe you know something that isn't in the article. After all the money the state has spent I hope the tribes do support it because without them I am not sure what will be on display.
Pretty sure it would be part of the Smithsonian group of museums if it's ever finished. plenty of artifacts ready for display. Be stupid not to finish the project. Unlike the proposed cc $ pit, this would actually attract visitors from around then country.

You use a percentage of Republicans, but only a number with Dems, what is the percentage of Dems ready to vote?

According to Scott Inman, 100%

"House Minority Leader Scott Inman previously has said all 29 Democrats would vote for funding the center." <--From today's Daily Oklahoman article

I'm going to an AIA luncheon at the American Indian Cultural Center and then taking a tour of it this Thursday, I'm very excited!

I'm going to an AIA luncheon at the American Indian Cultural Center and then taking a tour of it this Thursday, I'm very excited!

Me too!

Me too!
Take Pictures!

I haven't seen ANY data support either argument, but supporting it "just because" doesn't sound like a savvy business strategy to me. I was a volunteer at the "ground blessing", but even as a college student/or recent graduate at that time(can't remember how long it's been), I could see all the politicians at that time using it for a publicity stunt, and years after construction most politicians wouldn't touch it with a ten foot poll because it would hurt their re-election chances. Yes, at this point we SHOULD finish it, but should have a smarter plan. As almost always with government projects, it's over budget, no hard data is provided to public (showing local support, funding mechanisms, how financially sustainable it will be after completion) nor WHY this needs to cost $200 MILLION Plus? I'd like to see data showing how much the Executive Director, Project Managers and any other people affiliated with this project have been paid. Do you not think this is a good idea for the PUBLIC to be provided with this data on a PUBLIC PROJECT?

The full time staff of the agency were paid quite well, but because none had experience relevant to their mission (i.e. museum oversight, or even project management), the board contracted with consultants in those fields to the tune of nearly $19 million over the period examined by the state auditor. So you could say personnel costs ran a bit high.

$19 million is still only 10-12% of the overall project cost. For a project of this size, scope and complexity, this is a completely appropriate amount of fees for architects, engineers, museum consultants, etc.

Pretty sure it would be part of the Smithsonian group of museums if it's ever finished. plenty of artifacts ready for display. Be stupid not to finish the project. Unlike the proposed cc $ pit, this would actually attract visitors from around then country.

AAAAAAAnd Edgar is back in full force...

The money wasted on this boondoggle would have either gone along way toward or completely paid for the repairs needed at the capitol. It is time to walk away from this massive boondoggle. The state should legalize casinos owned by Non-Tribal entities and sell the site for what it can get. It is time that the gambling business be open to all Oklahomans not just the tribes.

Yes...why do a world class cultural museum when we can promote another money sucking casino. Maybe we should just build a redneck museum. Bet we could get funding for that. We could get that cheap. Bring in a dozen double-wides and a beer truck with taps on the side.

In the original proposal pushed by Chickasaw Nation Gov. Bill Anoatubby the tribes agreed to fund 5% of the cost. Does anyone know if this financial commitment has been met yet?

Yes...why do a world class cultural museum when we can promote another money sucking casino. Maybe we should just build a redneck museum. Bet we could get funding for that. We could get that cheap. Bring in a dozen double-wides and a beer truck with taps on the side.

I get and mostly agree with the joke but don't dog the idea of a beer truck with taps on the side.

$19 million is still only 10-12% of the overall project cost. For a project of this size, scope and complexity, this is a completely appropriate amount of fees for architects, engineers, museum consultants, etc.

Perhaps it is, but the problem is that the project was never meant to carry that sort of price tag when it was presented to the public. Not even close, in fact. It has been driven to that level by the sort of decisions that led them to spend such a sum on consultants.

And I'll just add that I think it an absolute must that this project be completed, since some in this thread are so intent on setting straw men ablaze. I simply think it has been a disastrously mismanaged agency, and that it is a thing worth acknowledging.

AAAAAAAnd Edgar is back in full force...

At least he's consistent.

The money wasted on this boondoggle would have either gone along way toward or completely paid for the repairs needed at the capitol. It is time to walk away from this massive boondoggle. The state should legalize casinos owned by Non-Tribal entities and sell the site for what it can get. It is time that the gambling business be open to all Oklahomans not just the tribes.You're wrong.

House committee passes bill to complete Indian cultural center | News OK (http://newsok.com/house-committee-passes-bill-to-complete-indian-cultural-center/article/3953577)

Good news. Hopefully the Speaker and Floor leader will set it for a prompt vote.

Gov. Fallin pushes for funding for Indian cultural center | News OK (http://newsok.com/gov.-fallin-pushes-for-funding-for-indian-cultural-center/article/3952962)

Gov. Fallin pushes for funding for Indian cultural center | News OK (http://newsok.com/gov.-fallin-pushes-for-funding-for-indian-cultural-center/article/3952962)

Plupan, please see post number 1464. :)

ooops

No, I really don't care to be honest, just sick of progressives constantly blaming everything on George Bush and tea partiers, the lame argument gets old. Compare apples to apples.

You sure are passionate on this issue, do you have ANY ties to this project?

Except in this case it is 100% the fault of a wing of the republican party. Why not let it go to a vote?

The OKC Chamber has sent out this request today.


We’re asking again for your help in making the case to state legislators regarding funding the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum.
If the Legislature does not vote to complete this important project this session, we might lose the $40 million in matching funds already committed to it from the private sector, the tribes and the City of Oklahoma City.
That can’t happen; the site has been sitting vacant for too long. It needs to be finished as a key part of the growing cultural attractions that Oklahoma offers to the tourism economy. To get this done, we are asking you to contact your representatives and urge them to ask the Speaker to let them vote on the House floor.
The bill related to the American Indian cultural center would pull $40 million from the state’s Unclaimed Property Fund to finish the project. This proposal has passed the Senate and two House committees and will pass the House with support from both parties if brought to a vote.
However, House Speaker Jeff Hickman, R-Fairview, has publicly stated that he will not hold a vote on the House floor unless 51 of the House’s 72 Republicans support it. It is critical that we persuade Speaker Hickman to hear the bill.
We are asking you to contact your representatives and Speaker Hickman to let them know you’d like the full House to vote on the bill. To find your representative and send an email or call, go online and use a simple tool at the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber’s Business Advocacy Center to do so. Email Hickman directly at jwhickman@okhouse.gov.
Statewide editorials about this project agree that the bill should go to a House vote. Read more in The Oklahoman and the Tulsa World.
Please help us demonstrate to our elected officials the strong support for finishing the center that they started years ago. It is too costly to maintain a vacant building that is expected to bring jobs and $3.8 billion to our state’s economy in its first 20 years of operation.
Go online to the Chamber’s Business Advocacy Center and help us today. Thank you for your support.

I sent both Hickman and my Representative (Reynolds) an email urging them to support this project.

This is not looking good.


House unlikely to hear museum bill

OKLAHOMA CITY – A measure that would provide the money to finish the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum is on life support and probably won’t be heard by its Thursday deadline.
But that doesn’t mean the idea is dead.

On March 4, the Oklahoma Senate passed Senate Bill 1651, which would tap the state’s unclaimed property fund for $40 million to help finish the center. That fund, controlled by the state treasurer’s office, contains money and other financial instruments that have been abandoned by their owners and turned over to the state.

The Senate passed the bill 30-17. But House leaders weren’t thrilled by the bill, and since March 5, supporters of the ACCIM have struggled to gather yes votes. Though the entire 29-member House Democratic Caucus endorsed the bill, House Speaker Jeff Hickman, R-Fairview, said the measure would need 51 GOP votes before it would go to the House floor.

Supporters said about 35 members of the House Republican Caucus would vote for the bill. But even though that number, combined with Democrats’ support, would be enough to get the measure out of the House and to the governor’s desk, it’s not enough to reach Hickman’s stated goal.

Last week opponents circulated a document trying to gauge the number of lawmakers opposed to the bill. State Rep. Pat Ownbey, R-Ardmore, said that document showed there weren’t enough votes to get the bill a hearing on the House floor. Lawmakers, Ownbey said, are more concerned about the state budget.

Ownbey, an opponent of the bill, said he doesn’t want to go back to his district and try to explain a vote for the cultural center when state employees haven’t seen a pay increase in more than seven years.

- read more here: House unlikely to hear museum bill | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2014/04/21/house-unlikely-to-hear-museum-bill-capitol/)

Ugh.

Ugh.

Sums it up pretty well...

Wow.

We should forge a grand bargain where in exchange for a prohibition on BRT they fund the AICC. That should make the Koch bros happy, right?

Wow.

We should forge a grand bargain where in exchange for a prohibition on BRT they fund the AICC. That should make the Koch bros happy, right?

Huh?

I'd really like to kick Hickmans ass over this. You'll piss away $40 MILLION in matching funds because not enough of your conservative clowns are behind you, even though it would pass?