Not to mention this is very poorly written article that leaves out the VERY big fact that funding was withdrawn after the tornado. Its likely this gets funded during the next session.Wow, really!? I didn't know that. Did the money go towards the costs of the damage?

Actually it was more of a symbolic thing. Just didn't look right trying to plug money for a museum when thousands of people just lost their homes. IMO it probably bought them some brownie points.

they did funding to get bass pro shop here but they will not do it to built the cultural center? Priorities

they did funding to get bass pro shop here but they will not do it to built the cultural center? Priorities

Jesseda, I understand what you're saying but the Bass Pro Shop was on a totally different scale cost wise and had nothing to do with state funding. It's apples and oranges.

A) Finish building it; B) Bulldoze it; or C) Give it to the Mexicans and let them fix it up the way they did with Crossroads Mall.

Where are you folks getting the idea that the State will recoup its money in just a couple of years? Are you talking about the existing multi-millions in multiple bond issues spent or just the newest round of funding?

American Indian Center may receive funding for completion | Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com (http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomanews/okc/american-indian-center-may-receive-funding-for-completion/-/11777584/22967852/-/11ih48d/-/index.html)

American Indian Center may receive funding for completion | Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com (http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomanews/okc/american-indian-center-may-receive-funding-for-completion/-/11777584/22967852/-/11ih48d/-/index.html)

If it passes it will be completed in 2017.... maybe Aloft will be open by then...

2017 be a good year if this bill is passed!

Wasn't funding somewhat in place, or close to in place, already and the AICC told the legislature to spend the money to help Moore after the tornadoes? When that happened I assumed that it was a good faith agreement that the center would be funded soon. Or maybe I made that up...

If it passes it will be completed in 2017.... maybe Aloft will be open by then...

This is nuts...Devon Tower was built in less than 3 years. Why 3-4 more years to finish this place?

why is this not used as an outdoor concert venue to help fund the gap? would be an wesome site.

This is nuts...Devon Tower was built in less than 3 years. Why 3-4 more years to finish this place?

Devon Tower was built by a company with the pocket change to build it. AICC wasn't ever fully funded & is still struggling to get all the money needed to complete it. It boils down to $$$ & Devon had the paper to build their HQ's, whereas AICC hasn't been able to get the funding.

If it passes it will be completed in 2017.... maybe Aloft will be open by then...

That's three things...Aloft, Streetcar, and AICC :p

That's three things...Aloft, Streetcar, and AICC :p

Actually the Chamber is having a Sunset Reception at the Aloft on January 21st from 4:00 - 6:00pm

How are they going to mow the grass on that hill?

Goats maybe?

Goats maybe?Aaaaaahhh, but goats will eat anything, including car tires(trust me on this one). I'd prefer a good ol' grazing cow. :)

sheep!

How are they going to mow the grass on that hill?

They may not, they could just leave it in it's natural growth as it would have been hundreds of years ago.

Actually the Chamber is having a Sunset Reception at the Aloft on January 21st from 4:00 - 6:00pm

That's probably the best way to give them a deadline!

An update by the Journal on some legislators thoughts about the cultural center.


Legislators seek to make museum a priority
By M. Scott Carter
The Journal Record

OKLAHOMA CITY – The Oklahoma Legislature’s Republican and Democratic leaders made a pitch for the completion of the beleaguered American Indian Cultural Center and Museum and suggested that lawmakers may need to tweak a big rewrite of the workers’ compensation system during a legislative forum Monday.

Speaking at the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber’s Legislative Breakfast, House Speaker Pro Tempore Mike Jackson, R-Enid, said the debate over the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum needs to be resolved.

“At this point, keeping it up in the air and continuing to kick the can down the road is probably a mistake,” Jackson said. “If you look at the cost to repair (the museum) and those kinds of things, our caucus would look at some type of resolution to the issue.”

For more than two years, the project has sat unfinished because of a lack of funds. Private donors have pledged $40 million to complete the structure, but those pledges are contingent on state funding. Last year, lawmakers shot down a proposal that would have completed the museum with the use of bond funds. Tax revenue for fiscal year 2015 is expected to be about $170 million less than last year.

On Monday, Jackson said it would be difficult to sell a bond package for the museum to the Republican-controlled House of Representatives.

“If they are asking for an additional bond, I think they’re going to have a difficult time getting that through the Legislature, but, at the same time, I do think the Native American cultural center is something we will take into account.”

House Minority Leader Scott Inman, D-Del City, said he was embarrassed by the lack of legislative action on the museum.

“It has to be done,” Inman said. “We have to get it completed.”

Inman said all 29 members of the House’s Democratic caucus supported funding the completion of the museum. He said House Democrats didn’t support a bond issue for the museum in 2013 because the Republican caucus wanted another cut in the income tax level.

“Last year our team said we wanted to take a second look at a bond issue for one reason, that was a big talk of a tax cut,” Inman said. “My team didn’t believe that it made sense to say to the people of Oklahoma that we have an obligation we need to meet so we’re going to cut taxes and take out bonds. If we’ve got enough money to be able to cut taxes, then let’s just pay as we go.”

Senate President Pro Tempore Brian Bingman said he hoped the museum would be finished someday.

“We just don’t know when,” he said.

He said some members of the Senate worry about the ongoing operation of the center.

“There are still concerns about the center; how well can the state operate the thing and how much is the ongoing obligation going to be to the state?” he said. “I think the numbers we saw last year were a lot better than we saw in the past. Again, we need to be a little innovative; shame on the Legislature for first approving the thing without a way to end the thing.”

Senate Minority Leader Sean Burrage, D-Claremore, said he supported completing the center.

“Yes, we need to finish the project,” Burrage said. “Twenty years from now we’ll be talking about workers’ comp. Let’s not talk about this project anymore. Let’s fund it and stop kicking it on down the road.”

TW SHannon and his minions are the reason this isnt finished. Letting an unfinished structure sit idle will only make things more expensive in the long run. And his aversion to bonds for this or the capital repairs is another ignorant stance. Oklahoma has very relatively low bond debt and financial experts actually say that not issuing bonds will actually lower our rating, which makes borrowing more expensive. TW Shannon claims that he doesnt want Oklahoma to be like the federal govt in taking huge debts and run up big deficits, which is ridiculous because Oklahoma is nothing like the federal govt. And I guess TW Shannon has never had a mortgage and always pays for everything in cash (ya right). Building things takes money, and sometimes you have to borrow that money and when that money comes with historically low interest rates, its quite reasonable then to issue bonds.

My thoughts are better explained here:
http://okpolicy.org/running-government-like-a-business-means-taking-on-debt

TW SHannon and his minions are the reason this isnt finished. Letting an unfinished structure sit idle will only make things more expensive in the long run. And his aversion to bonds for this or the capital repairs is another ignorant stance. Oklahoma has very relatively low bond debt and financial experts actually say that not issuing bonds will actually lower our rating, which makes borrowing more expensive. TW Shannon claims that he doesnt want Oklahoma to be like the federal govt in taking huge debts and run up big deficits, which is ridiculous because Oklahoma is nothing like the federal govt. And I guess TW Shannon has never had a mortgage and always pays for everything in cash (ya right). Building things takes money, and sometimes you have to borrow that money and when that money comes with historically low interest rates, its quite reasonable then to issue bonds.

My thoughts are better explained here:
Running government like a business means taking on debt » Oklahoma Policy Institute (http://okpolicy.org/running-government-like-a-business-means-taking-on-debt)

TW Shannon is a jackass though, so good luck getting him to understand common sense and stopping his hypocrisy.

Nice blog, onthestrip. I am a facebook fan/follower of T.W. Shannon and began quite the fan but am becoming rather disenchanted with him. Your blog very well points out that there are times debt is OK. If you were to remove T.W. Shannon and "conservative" Oklahoma politics out of it, how would you fund the AICC? Is this something worth going into debt for? (My answer: yes) Is this something the state should go in debt for? (My answer: ... I don't know. Was this always a state obligation? If so, yes, the state should finish it up.) Why can't the state fund it the same way we fund highways? or like OKC does MAPS? I wish we could do it without debt (but I think we should complete it).

TW Shannon is a jackass though, so good luck getting him to understand common sense and stopping his hypocrisy.

Ya but he is the speaker of the house and other financially illiterate representatives are holding back the state. I mean, does he not realize how anything ever got built in Oklahoma? Roads, govt buildings, and other past state projects werent paid in cash, they were done with a reasonable amount of bonds. This is Oklahoma, to act like we are some out of control tax/bond and spend state is simply not true. We are a very financially stable state govt and we wont put ourselves in any danger by paying for necessary projects. We would be in more danger by no completing necessary projects.

We would be in more danger by not completing necessary projects.

Like this post (lacking the "button")

Ya but he is the speaker of the house and other financially illiterate representatives are holding back the state. I mean, does he not realize how anything ever got built in Oklahoma? Roads, govt buildings, and other past state projects werent paid in cash, they were done with a reasonable amount of bonds. This is Oklahoma, to act like we are some out of control tax/bond and spend state is simply not true. We are a very financially stable state govt and we wont put ourselves in any danger by paying for necessary projects. We would be in more danger by no completing necessary projects.

You're preaching to the choir with this as I get it, but as I said, good luck with Shannon. He's incompetent, but Okies continue to vote for him. It baffles the mind.

$40M for Indian museum OK'd by Oklahoma panel

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A plan to divert $40 million in use taxes over three years to help complete construction of an American Indian Cultural Center and Museum along the banks of the Oklahoma River has cleared a House committee.

A House budget panel on Monday voted 13-10 for the measure, which would divert the tax revenue beginning in fiscal year 2015. Use taxes are those paid on Internet purchases and tangible personal property purchased out of state and brought into Oklahoma. The taxes are expected to generate about $244 million next year.

Museum supporters say they've secured $40 million in pledges from private donors and only need one final $40 million appropriation from the Legislature to complete the project.

A separate $40 million for a museum in Tulsa will be considered Monday afternoon.

$40M for Indian museum OK'd by Oklahoma panel | News OK (http://newsok.com/40m-for-indian-museum-okd-by-oklahoma-panel/article/3827939)

Where is the Casino ( Tribes ) money on the grand investment? ...WinStar / Riverwind / etc. I would like to see this project completed and feel it will be a great addition to the City....,but why is the state being asked to pick-up the tab on this? Maybe the state of Oklahoma can tap back in on the casino's !!!!!!

Wait, you want the state to pick up the tab for HSR (no one else will BTW) but not for museum that might (eventually I realize) generate revenue?

Where is the Casino ( Tribes ) money on the grand investment? ...WinStar / Riverwind / etc. I would like to see this project completed and feel it will be a great addition to the City....,but why is the state being asked to pick-up the tab on this? Maybe the state of Oklahoma can tap back in on the casino's !!!!!!

Wasn't it the tribes that pledged to match the $40M?
BTW, why would a single tribe contribute to this project that could possible siphon off visitors to their specific tribal cultural center? How would any tribe specifically benefit from this?

Wait, you want the state to pick up the tab for HSR (no one else will BTW) but not for museum that might (eventually I realize) generate revenue?

shawn, do you think the tribes should pay for it? ....the state?

And shawn, this is not a mass transit for a regional rail system, this is just a side show. Generate Revenue? ....a few tickets does not equal a revenue stream. Shawn, you are struggling here.

If the tribes did not ask for it, no, I don't think they should pay. I'm not completely up to speed on the history of this project so I don't know if they did, though I thought I'd seen here that they didn't. Someone who knows, feel free to correct me.

They will sell tickets, right? Well, that's by definition revenue. I didn't say (or mean) profit. Not sure yet if this will ever be profitable. Or it might be a very long time.

They may not, they could just leave it in it's natural growth as it would have been hundreds of years ago.

It would be nice if they placed a small herd of Buffalo there. ...wouldn't that be the natural fit?

... why is the state being asked to pick-up the tab on this? ...

Gee, uh, I dunno. Maybe, just maybe, the state is asked to fund this because it is a project of a state agency of the state of Oklahoma. A state agency created by the state of Oklahoma specifically to create this museum for the benefit of all Oklahomans and our guests.

Yeah, that might just be the reason the state of Oklahoma should pick up the tab for this project.

I love the buffalo idea...definitely a traffic stopper lol

Wasn't it the tribes that pledged to match the $40M?
BTW, why would a single tribe contribute to this project that could possible siphon off visitors to their specific tribal cultural center? How would any tribe specifically benefit from this?

While I think this AICC could be quite the asset if run properly, I almost wonder if it wouldn't have been better to just let the tribes handle their own cultural centers (like what the Chickasaws have) and then the state could have marketed those for tourism. Of course, this may just be my cynicism wondering if this will be run properly.

This thing has been sitting idle for 3 YEARS without making ANY MONEY. Obviously this thing has absolutely no useful life yet. LETS BURN IT TO THE GROUND!

This thing has been sitting idle for 3 YEARS without making ANY MONEY. Obviously this thing has absolutely no useful life yet. LETS BURN IT TO THE GROUND!
What is wrong with you?

What do you mean? Nobody is willing to put up the $$$ to make this a functional building so obviously it is a defunct structure and has no future use. Lets tear is down, cause even a surface parking lot or McDonalds would actually bring in revenue. #OKCtalklogic


[This and my last post were sarcasm, I actually really love this development and want it to be finished through any means necessary]

Gee, uh, I dunno. Maybe, just maybe, the state is asked to fund this because it is a project of a state agency of the state of Oklahoma. A state agency created by the state of Oklahoma specifically to create this museum for the benefit of all Oklahomans and our guests.

Yeah, that might just be the reason the state of Oklahoma should pick up the tab for this project.

Kevin, that's right. NACEA back in 94'.

The State of Oklahoma ( Ms. Fallin ) needs to get this obligation completed ASAP. We are at a point where we can't back out now and the direct cost ( to delay ) is even greater. AICC needs the fast track.

What do you mean? Nobody is willing to put up the $$$ to make this a functional building so obviously it is a defunct structure and has no future use. Lets tear is down, cause even a surface parking lot or McDonalds would actually bring in revenue. #OKCtalklogic


[This and my last post were sarcasm, I actually really love this development and want it to be finished through any means necessary]

Gotcha.

I think the Buffalo alone will be as large a draw as the center itself. But I agree we need to get err done ASAP.

First, I am sure the tribal cultural centers will benefit from AICC. People will visit this AICC, likely learn about the cultural centers dotted across the state, and possibly visit some tribal centers. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Second, the tribes have donated some money, but this is a state project that will benefit state tourism. Just because Native Americans are featured in the museum does not mean they are responsible to pay for it. Just because the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum focuses primarily on white people and their experiences does not mean only white people should help fund it. Oklahoma will benefit from a well done state tribal museum such as this, and it's actually rather stunning this wasn't done 50 years ago considering Native history and culture are one of the ways that outsiders identify the state.

I think the Buffalo alone will be as large a draw as the center itself. But I agree we need to get err done ASAP.

...its just nice seeing Buffalo grazing in the fields.

First, I am sure the tribal cultural centers will benefit from AICC. People will visit this AICC, likely learn about the cultural centers dotted across the state, and possibly visit some tribal centers. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Second, the tribes have donated some money, but this is a state project that will benefit state tourism. Just because Native Americans are featured in the museum does not mean they are responsible to pay for it. Just because the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum focuses primarily on white people and their experiences does not mean only white people should help fund it. Oklahoma will benefit from a well done state tribal museum such as this, and it's actually rather stunning this wasn't done 50 years ago considering Native history and culture are one of the ways that outsiders identify the state.

This project was supported by the Tribes (some even spoke to Congress in getting Federal funding. The Legislation was written by one of our Native American State Senators (IIRC, the same man that designed the Guardian statue that sits atop the Capitol).

When the legislation was written on this, the cost was to be evenly split 3 ways:

1) The State
2) The Feds
3) Private donations (the Tribes)

ONLY the State has come up with their original 1/3 share. ONLY the State has stepped up to the plate with additional funding as the costs kept rising. There have been multiple bond issues for this (conflicting reports on the number of bond issues), each time they came asking for additional money, they promised it would be the last time. Yet they are back again with the same request and the same promises. At a certain point, credibility is reduced to nothing. At some point, you have to stop throwing good money after bad.

Why borrow money that has to be paid back with interest? Why not use a MAPS style approach and pay for it with cash? Why not save whatever money is paid back in bond interest to make the facility better or reduce the cost? Don't get me wrong, I think it needs to be finished BUT there are better ways of doing it than for the State to borrow more money.

The idea of the $40 million or so pledged IF the State matched it is bass-ackwards as the State had already pre-matched the private funds. It is time for those that made the pledges to follow thru on them.

It is time for the Feds and the Tribes to come up with their remaining respective 1/3 shares.

It is time for the Feds and the Tribes to come up with their remaining respective 1/3 shares.

Maybe so (although I seem to recall that there were several tribes that have put some money into this), but if the Feds and the Tribes do nothing, do they lose out on anything? My answer: No. If the state does nothing more, does the state lose out on anything? My answer: A LOT!

...its just nice seeing Buffalo grazing in the fields.

Yes, it is. It's also nice to see them ground up, properly seasoned and sitting on a big ol' bun too. But that's a different story for another thread.

This project was supported by the Tribes (some even spoke to Congress in getting Federal funding. The Legislation was written by one of our Native American State Senators (IIRC, the same man that designed the Guardian statue that sits atop the Capitol).

When the legislation was written on this, the cost was to be evenly split 3 ways:

1) The State
2) The Feds
3) Private donations (the Tribes)

2 questions: 1) do you have a story or something else documenting this? I haven't heard this before. 2) Which tribes? You can't just say "the tribes." You have to specify which ones. They can't all just be lumped together.

Split isn't the same as EVEN split. It was never 1/3 each.

They'll get their bond this year, and we'll see if the matching donation commitment they've been touting is an actual thing, or whether they'll be asking for another bond in 2015-16.

Rover: yes, it indeed was an even 1/3 each split.

Dankrutka: it something I dug up over the course of time and is most likely posted elsewhere in this thread...sorry but I don't have the info handy. As far as which tribes, IIRC it was the heads of the largest tribes that endorsed the plan. Not sure if all of the Tribes endorsed or not.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/3932026?embargo=1

Could be good news or not.


Gov. Mary Fallin talked about many things this past Monday in her State of the State speech, but she was silent on two topics of intense interest to many Oklahomans.

She didn't say a word about any plans to complete the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum in Oklahoma City. She also didn't address plans to help fund an Oklahoma Museum of Popular Culture in Tulsa.

Fallin didn't mention either project in her 209-page executive budget, either.

That doesn't mean she's no longer interested in the projects, said Alex Weintz, the governor's spokesman.

“On the cultural center, Gov. Fallin has said she supports a path to completion and is keeping all options on the table, including a bond,” Weintz told The Oklahoman. “That has not changed.”


Senate Majority Leader Sean Burrage said recently he believes the state Senate has the votes to approve funding for the American Indian museum, and he would like to see the Tulsa museum funded, as well.

Senate President Pro Tem Brian Bingman said he also would like to see the American Indian museum completed, but thought it would be difficult to get a bond issue to fund the two museums through the Legislature in light of the tight budget.

Bingman noted a plan to fund the American Indian museum with use tax receipts for three years and the Pops museum with sales tax revenues for four years was moving through the Legislature last year when it got derailed by the Moore tornado.

He said the decrease in general revenue fund money this year would make it difficult to revive that measure, so some other source of money may be needed.

The biggest obstacle could be in the House, where Republican state representatives have voiced strong reluctance to approve bond issues that would add to the state debt.

Scott Martin, House appropriations chairman, said he's not sure what to expect this year.

“I'm guessing that I'm not alone. I'm frustrated with the amount of money that's been spent on the cultural center and it's still not completed,” he said. “It's a sensitive subject and I'm not sure what the eventual outcome will be.”

He said most people would like to see it done, but are not sure where the money will come from.

Gov. Mary Fallin's State of the State speech silent on plans for Oklahoma museums | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/gov.-mary-fallins-state-of-the-state-speech-silent-on-plans-for-oklahoma-museums/article/3932026)
(mobile link)

Who again was the genius that came up with the American Indian Cultural Center Museum in the first place? No one really ever talks about that.

Who again was the genius that came up with the American Indian Cultural Center Museum in the first place? No one really ever talks about that.

I know you are facetious in calling them a genius, but if done properly, it will be a great idea, regardless of who thought of it.

I know you are facetious in calling them a genius, but if done properly, it will be a great idea, regardless of who thought of it.

Correct, I was being facetious; but the fact is, it has not been done properly, it's been a BOONDOGGLE, and will continue to be whether it is completed or not. I actually was a volunteer at the "ground-blessing" years ago, and I remember all the politicians grand-standing for political points. Funny how you don't see any of them associating with it now. I too like everyone had/have high hopes for the property, as it could really be something grand, but it has turned into a nightmare; not to mention no one can explain why this thing needs to cost $200 MILLION+. You can build much nicer, larger facilities for less; for comparison's sake, remember we're trying to build this 270,000 sq. ft new convention center for only $50 million more.

Let's see.... most of the posters here criticize OKC and OK for always thinking too small and not doing things first class. Then, when the decisions are made to try to do things world class they immediately call it a boondoggle and the tea party is up in arms (not that they want to pay for ANY museum or ANY cultural facility ... who needs culture when you can save a buck, right?). So, let's insure it will fail by trying to do it on the absolute cheap and then criticize why it is just another failure to do it right. When this state actually starts valuing CULTURE (no, cockfighting is not culture) THEN maybe we will earn our place in the world. Til then, we are just a cheap tea party state that should be very thankful we sit on top of a lot of oil and gas.

Let's see.... most of the posters here criticize OKC and OK for always thinking too small and not doing things first class. Then, when the decisions are made to try to do things world class they immediately call it a boondoggle and the tea party is up in arms (not that they want to pay for ANY museum or ANY cultural facility ... who needs culture when you can save a buck, right?). So, let's insure it will fail by trying to do it on the absolute cheap and then criticize why it is just another failure to do it right. When this state actually starts valuing CULTURE (no, cockfighting is not culture) THEN maybe we will earn our place in the world. Til then, we are just a cheap tea party state that should be very thankful we sit on top of a lot of oil and gas.

Amen.

The AICC could be a real asset to this city. As I've said before, we need an anchor for redevelopment on that side of the river. The closest "attraction" to that site is the Old Paris Flea Market. $200M for a museum and cultural center is not necessarily that much. It depends if you get your money's worth. And that doesn't mean you have to make it back in tourism dollars. A state isn't a business, and shouldn't measure things by just raw profit. This is also about having nice things for the people who live here.