You know folks in OK are getting serious about something when the news, and others, start using football terminology. Oh look, there goes Barry trotting onto the field.

Ok guys, it's fourth and goal in the final two minutes. I need you to give 110%!

:wink:

It was mentioned earlier in this thread, but even little ole Sulphur managed to build The Chickasaw Cultural Center (http://www.chickasawculturalcenter.com/explore-campus.html).

Here's a blog entry where someone visited the center and posted some nice pics:

PSS Goes to the Chickasaw Cultural Center | Pencil Shavings (http://www.pencilshavingsstudio.com/2013/04/pss-goes-to-the-chickasaw-cultural-center/)

http://www.pencilshavingsstudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Opener-CCS.png

http://www.pencilshavingsstudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/exhibit-jude.png

The Chickasaw Cultural Center in Sulphur OK is world class and state of the art. If you are in the area I would encourage a visit. I hope that we can exceed that facility in the Native American Cultural Center. It has become a huge disappointment to see it sitting there unfinished. Not to mention that it is costing the State around 50,000 a month for security and maintenance.

I spent 2 hours at the Chickasaw CC..... was very good and informative.

I own a 'one of a kind' better than most museum quality artifact. If the AICC opens and displays artifacts, I'll put it out on loan to them.

At least a little movement on this project...

They submitted a design application for a sign, landscaping and irrigation.


I wonder where they stand on their overall fundraising goal?

I don't have high hopes for a great harvest. Not all that impressed with the current crop of vegetables growing on N. Lincoln.

Can't forget that the Governor is for finishing it, and the House Speaker is a member of the Chickasaw Nation.

I was in Dallas last week. The opening of the George Bush center/library. They were talking about it being more than $300 million. I then laugh to myself about us Okies who think a world class cultural center/museum should be done half arsed and on the cheap. And we wonder why Dallas gets the good stuff.

I was in Dallas last week. The opening of the George Bush center/library. They were talking about it being more than $300 million. I then laugh to myself about us Okies who think a world class cultural center/museum should be done half arsed and on the cheap. And we wonder why Dallas gets the good stuff.

The notion of comparing a Presidential Library with a kitschy tourist trap wrapped in the notion of an "Indian Cultural Center" is like comparing a Lexus to a Yugo.

I was in Dallas last week. The opening of the George Bush center/library. They were talking about it being more than $300 million. I then laugh to myself about us Okies who think a world class cultural center/museum should be done half arsed and on the cheap. And we wonder why Dallas gets the good stuff.

The amount of self-loathing and indigenous Okie-hate on this forum is amazing, disheartening and offputting. Not poking at you, Rover. You just happen to be the latest example. I was actually surprised to see it was you that said that. I certainly don't mean to infer that we're number 1. Just sayin' that I weary of the whining from so many sources on OKC Talk. I also don't want to see the opposite -- unless it's quoting the Head Cheerleader in Charge Cornett.
While I don't know the facts, only stuff I've read on the internet, I don't think any taxes were levied or public monies used to fund the George Bush center / library (or any presidential libraries, for that matter).


The notion of comparing a Presidential Library with a kitschy tourist trap wrapped in the notion of an "Indian Cultural Center" is like comparing a Lexus to a Yugo.

I also can't imagine the AICC as a kitschy tourist trap. I see it as an equal to the National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum. As a matter of fact, in my dichotomous view of the world, it seems very fitting that both are located here in the same metro. I hope it is finished soon. I think it's just about to the point where OKC somehow has to embrace the suck and say, "This is my baby and I will make this gem shine." Otherwise, we've got one odd crop circle landing pad problem at the intersection of two very prominent interstate highways. If that's not a blemish by now, what is? The AICC has so much potential, it's exciting to imagine what it could be -- and sad to see it failing to materialize as of right now.
The AICC, though, is really a museum -- something that needs to function as a tourist trap somewhat in order to succeed, but that's not any museum's main mission. Its main mission is to educate, much like a presidential library's main mission is to educate. I can't conceive a more appropriate comparison that that of two entities whose main mission is to educate about and celebrate the past. While the AICC in its current state is nothing more than a kitschy roadside attraction, when it is completed, no one will include it on their bucket list down around the world's largest ball of twine. It'll be much higher than that (and maybe even above a presidential library).

Can't forget that the Governor is for finishing it, and the House Speaker is a member of the Chickasaw Nation.

This would be the same folks who are often so unable to deal with their own party membership regarding bond debt in general they just had to give up, yet again, their precious goal of reducing the state income tax because they need to finagle some funds to fix the building that is falling down around them. When you control both houses and the Gov. seat and you can't get your own agenda through your own people ... oh well, the dems were often just as sad when they controlled the playground.

Nothing about the beginnings of the wrap up talk for the coming FY, including the talk of wrapping up a week early, give me any real hopes of seeing a bond agreement come out in the next week or three. Would love to be wrong. Just not willing to bet it will happen.

Still sticking to my plan: include a plot somewhere else along the south side of the river and sell the museum to the highest bidding Indian tribe(s) with the agreement that they finish/maintain (sticking to the original plan) the museum and in return receive permission from the state to build a casino on the other plot of land. We get a privately funded and finished museum as well as a new attraction near downtown, everybody wins.

Still sticking to my plan: include a plot somewhere else along the south side of the river and sell the museum to the highest bidding Indian tribe(s) with the agreement that they finish/maintain (sticking to the original plan) the museum and in return receive permission from the state to build a casino on the other plot of land. We get a privately funded and finished museum as well as a new attraction near downtown, everybody wins.

Damn fine idea, PhiAlpha.

I was in Dallas last week. The opening of the George Bush center/library. They were talking about it being more than $300 million. I then laugh to myself about us Okies who think a world class cultural center/museum should be done half arsed and on the cheap. And we wonder why Dallas gets the good stuff.

Sorry but $300 million for a museum/library is a ridiculous amount of money. Do we even have that much in Chesapeake arena? The level of bureaucracy, architect fees, consulting fees, conctruction management fees and excessive top of the line finishes of these projects are what make these things so dang expensive.

Sorry but $300 million for a museum/library is a ridiculous amount of money. Do we even have that much in Chesapeake arena? The level of bureaucracy, architect fees, consulting fees, conctruction management fees and excessive top of the line finishes of these projects are what make these things so dang expensive.

Not disagreeing with you, but don't even try to reason with this. It was just a cheap shot by Rover.

Rover had a point though, and it's a common complaint that OKC's final results on a lot of projects are very underwhelming if not disappointing. I'm not saying it needs to be $300 million, but we really should start paying more attention to detail and doing things the right way to the end on some of these projects. We put a lot of lipstick on a lot of pigs in this city.

Some of these recent posts seem to think that it is still going to happen this year, but reportedly, it isn't (unless someone has more recent info)

More time allowed for Oklahoma City American Indian Cultural Center | News OK (http://newsok.com/more-time-allowed-for-oklahoma-city-american-indian-cultural-center/article/3778348)

Also, when I googled it, there was a map and listing for it as being located at "900 N Broadway Ave, Oklahoma City, OK 73102". Do they have an office up there or something?

Still sticking to my plan: include a plot somewhere else along the south side of the river and sell the museum to the highest bidding Indian tribe(s) with the agreement that they finish/maintain (sticking to the original plan) the museum and in return receive permission from the state to build a casino on the other plot of land. We get a privately funded and finished museum as well as a new attraction near downtown, everybody wins.

I second the motion with the amendment that the bidders not be restricted. If a Native American group wants to finish this as a museum, great. Otherwise, the group with the most money gets to complete it as they see fit, and the state gets out of this mess.

I second the motion with the amendment that the bidders not be restricted. If a Native American group wants to finish this as a museum, great. Otherwise, the group with the most money gets to complete it as they see fit, and the state gets out of this mess.

That would work as well, I just want a cool casino near downtown (Remington doesn't count).

I also can't imagine the AICC as a kitschy tourist trap. I see it as an equal to the National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum. As a matter of fact, in my dichotomous view of the world, it seems very fitting that both are located here in the same metro. I hope it is finished soon. I think it's just about to the point where OKC somehow has to embrace the suck and say, "This is my baby and I will make this gem shine." Otherwise, we've got one odd crop circle landing pad problem at the intersection of two very prominent interstate highways. If that's not a blemish by now, what is? The AICC has so much potential, it's exciting to imagine what it could be -- and sad to see it failing to materialize as of right now.
The AICC, though, is really a museum -- something that needs to function as a tourist trap somewhat in order to succeed, but that's not any museum's main mission. Its main mission is to educate, much like a presidential library's main mission is to educate. I can't conceive a more appropriate comparison that that of two entities whose main mission is to educate about and celebrate the past. While the AICC in its current state is nothing more than a kitschy roadside attraction, when it is completed, no one will include it on their bucket list down around the world's largest ball of twine. It'll be much higher than that (and maybe even above a presidential library).

I'd agree with you if this had been designed as a cultural center at its core. It wasn't. It was pitched as an idea for an OKC tourist notion with an "homage" to Indian heritage, and a few of the tribes pitched in various amounts of money to get the pump primed. But if I'm not mistaken, a great many of the same tribes who contributed something to this are at this very moment working on their own cultural education centers that do what they want them to do, not what the city has decided it ought to do to catch the passing motorist along I-40.

Sorry, but this project is so rife with disingenuous motivations and good ol' boy politics that it makes me just a little nauseous. No one tribe wants anything to do with it because they know they'd have to share it with X other tribes who want their unique virtues put in high profile, too, and they all can't be accommodated equally - particularly if they happen to know their own group is at work with the same project concept tailored to their own desires. It's a no-win situation for everyone. Everyone.

Sorry but $300 million for a museum/library is a ridiculous amount of money. Do we even have that much in Chesapeake arena? The level of bureaucracy, architect fees, consulting fees, conctruction management fees and excessive top of the line finishes of these projects are what make these things so dang expensive.

Depends on how good your museum is. The Sam Noble Museum in Norman is pretty neat, but it's small, and it was $50 million. I'm not saying we are building the Louvre or the Natural History Museum in London, but I bet those world-class attractions cost more than $300 million. I've been to both, and you could spend days in them and never see everything.

The notion of comparing a Presidential Library with a kitschy tourist trap wrapped in the notion of an "Indian Cultural Center" is like comparing a Lexus to a Yugo.

You just articulated the level of expectation or knowledge most Okies have of a cultural center or museum. It is this belief that all OK is capable of is producing a "kitschy tourist trap" that leads our tea party hicks to provide only enough money to make that a self fulfilling prophecy. If that is your expectation that will be your budget, and your result.

Sorry but $300 million for a museum/library is a ridiculous amount of money. Do we even have that much in Chesapeake arena? The level of bureaucracy, architect fees, consulting fees, conctruction management fees and excessive top of the line finishes of these projects are what make these things so dang expensive.

I don't think most people know the cost of things. If your experience is spending $75,000 on a house, of course $300 million is way too much for any building right? But some people think a big mac, super-sized fries and a coke is a great meal...it is eating out after all. They are aghast at the idea of spending $100 on a meal.

That would work as well, I just want a cool casino near downtown (Remington doesn't count).

Unfortunately, this is the mentality....that a casino is culture. And we wonder why Okies have the image they do.

Depends on how good your museum is. The Sam Noble Museum in Norman is pretty neat, but it's small, and it was $50 million. I'm not saying we are building the Louvre or the Natural History Museum in London, but I bet those world-class attractions cost more than $300 million. I've been to both, and you could spend days in them and never see everything.

You can't touch the art in one wing, on one wall, on one floor of the Louvre for $300 million, let alone the building. Putting this in perspective, the DONATED art the Weitzenhoffer family gave to OU was worth $50 million ten years ago. We pat ourselves on the back for spending $180 million on the Chesapeake Arena while the Barclay Center is part of a $4.9 BILLION development.

If funded, this will be $169 million. Putting that in perspective, the Perot Museum in Dallas opened last year and cost $185 Million.... the Lucas Cultural Arts Center projected at $300 Million... The National Museum of the American Indian cost $161 Million ten years ago. This is not an outrageous amount to spend.

You can't touch the art in one wing, on one wall, on one floor of the Louvre for $300 million, let alone the building. Putting this in perspective, the DONATED art the Weitzenhoffer family gave to OU was worth $50 million ten years ago. We pat ourselves on the back for spending $180 million on the Chesapeake Arena while the Barclay Center is part of a $4.9 BILLION development.

If funded, this will be $169 million. Putting that in perspective, the Perot Museum in Dallas opened last year and cost $185 Million.... the Lucas Cultural Arts Center projected at $300 Million... The National Museum of the American Indian cost $161 Million ten years ago. This is not an outrageous amount to spend.

I agree with you. There's a segment of our society that doesn't want to spend money on anything. They think museum and they think the Omniplex. Changing these attitudes takes time, but they will change.

Unfortunately, this is the mentality....that a casino is culture. And we wonder why Okies have the image they do.

If I'm not mistaken, Phi suggested the casino as part of a package enticement to get a tribe to take on the completion of the Center and get some ROI.

You seem a bit cranky this afternoon.

If Indian City USA (in Andadarko, OK) was being proposed today, it would include Casino Rights.
Heck . . . Even the "Indian Project" that took the place of John Miskelly State Park would have had slot machines.

The museum project currently under discussion shows just how far [we as OkieHomies . . . Native and Otherwise] have moved in A different directions.
Much like the messages sent from smoke signals viewed from afars.=)

(when you use the word "museum" please refrain from subtly dissin' the Omniplex. in context. thank you.
especially in the context of "We" as compared to "Them (Okies)" =)

Edited to add: Be parsimonious in the use of the word "They".
Most of the time "They" don't know what they are talking about.
Or "They" are wrong. =)

If I'm not mistaken, Phi suggested the casino as part of a package enticement to get a tribe to take on the completion of the Center and get some ROI.

You seem a bit cranky this afternoon.

You are correct, thanks.

Rover, scroll up to the top/middle of this page...oh...wait...there it is...

But since you seem to have pulled out your "jump to conclusions mat" today, I'll repost:

"Still sticking to my plan: include a plot somewhere else along the south side of the river and sell the museum to the highest bidding Indian tribe(s) with the agreement that they finish/maintain (sticking to the original plan) the museum and in return receive permission from the state to build a casino on the other plot of land. We get a privately funded and finished museum as well as a new attraction near downtown, everybody wins."

That would work as well, I just want a cool casino near downtown (Remington doesn't count).

A casino downtown would be bad for OKC all the way around. That would spell the end of our downtown renaissance.

I wouldn't mind having a higher profile casino somewhere in the metro though like Hard Rock in Tulsa. Just not downtown.

In fact, I think something like that would be perfect up near Remington or out by Frontier City.

You are correct, thanks.

Rover, scroll up to the top/middle of this page...oh...wait...there it is...

But since you seem to have pulled out your "jump to conclusions mat" today, I'll repost:

"Still sticking to my plan: include a plot somewhere else along the south side of the river and sell the museum to the highest bidding Indian tribe(s) with the agreement that they finish/maintain (sticking to the original plan) the museum and in return receive permission from the state to build a casino on the other plot of land. We get a privately funded and finished museum as well as a new attraction near downtown, everybody wins."

Yes, please double down. Put a casino at the Smithsonian, or at La Scala. Prove how much class and culture we Okies have by going on the cheap, expecting others to pay, and then add gambling to the mix just to prove our mentality"

Then, to prove what our priorities are, we can reduce school funding....oh, sorry, we are already trying to do that. But if we teach them how to play poker they can always make a living.

Yes, please double down. Put a casino at the Smithsonian, or at La Scala. Prove how much class and culture we Okies have by going on the cheap, expecting others to pay, and then add gambling to the mix just to prove our mentality"

Then, to prove what our priorities are, we can reduce school funding....oh, sorry, we are already trying to do that. But if we teach them how to play poker they can always make a living.

Really feeling putting words in people's mouths today aren't you? I never said to turn the museum into a casino and didnt even suggest putting one next to it. I said a plot somewhere else along the south side of the river in return for funding to finish the museum. It wouldn't even necessarily have to be downtown or on the river, or it could be on the river farther away from downtown. The casino would just be a means to get the private funding. I've yet to hear you throw out a better solution.

A casino downtown would be bad for OKC all the way around. That would spell the end of our downtown renaissance.

I wouldn't mind having a higher profile casino somewhere in the metro though like Hard Rock in Tulsa. Just not downtown.

In fact, I think something like that would be perfect up near Remington or out by Frontier City.

Higher profile yes, but I disagree that having a high profile casino near downtown would ruin any momentum, especially on the south side of the river further east of the museum which is a rundown area right now as it is.

Really feeling putting words in people's mouths today aren't you? I never said to turn the museum into a casino and didnt even suggest putting one next to it. I said a plot somewhere else along the south side of the river in return for funding to finish the museum. It wouldn't even necessarily have to be downtown or on the river, or it could be on the river farther away from downtown. The casino would just be a means to get the private funding. I've yet to hear you throw out a better solution.
Here is a better solution....have the citizens of this state step up and support adequate funding for a first class cultural site for a change. Stand up to the tea party zealots and insist on doing it right. Tighten up the administration and finish the damn job for once. Don't double down on a bad idea of ceasing funding by trading for one more cheap casino that drains our citizenry.

Here is a better solution....have the citizens of this state step up and support adequate funding for a first class cultural site for a change. Stand up to the tea party zealots and insist on doing it right. Tighten up the administration and finish the damn job for once. Don't double down on a bad idea of ceasing funding by trading for one more cheap casino that drains our citizenry.

There you go putting words in my mouth again, i said a higher profile casino which would not be cheap. It's always better to use private funding than public if possible, so your solution is not better than mine, especially when so much has already been spent. Even the construction for the george bush library you mentioned was not publicly funded... $250 million in construction costs were privately funded and public funds will be used to maintain it (All Living Presidents Gather in Dallas to Dedicate George W. Bush Library | PBS NewsHour | April 25, 2013 | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house/jan-june13/bush_04-25.html)). There has already been more spent in public funding for construction costs on the Native American cultural center and it is not anywhere near finished.

still sticking to my plan: Include a plot somewhere else along the south side of the river and sell the museum to the highest bidding indian tribe(s) with the agreement that they finish/maintain (sticking to the original plan) the museum and in return receive permission from the state to build a casino on the other plot of land. We get a privately funded and finished museum as well as a new attraction near downtown, everybody wins.nice!!!!!!!!!!!

I always like thinking outside the box, but this casino thing needs to be put to rest. There will never be a casino there due to a myriad of legal reasons, the biggest being no BIA lands in OKC. The "racino" at Remington Park needed permission from the legislature and intense lobbying from the equestrian industry. And casinos are a double edged sword of the utmost degree. Just ask Tulsa and the giant sucking sound of money leaving their general fund to untaxed indian casinos.

I always like thinking outside the box, but this casino thing needs to be put to rest. There will never be a casino there due to a myriad of legal reasons, the biggest being no BIA lands in OKC. The "racino" at Remington Park needed permission from the legislature and intense lobbying from the equestrian industry. And casinos are a double edged sword of the utmost degree. Just ask Tulsa and the giant sucking sound of money leaving their general fund to untaxed indian casinos.

I know it would need permission from the legislature, hence why i said an agreement would have to be made allow a tribe to locate one in OKC. If they could get it done for remington park, it could be done for this. i never said it would be easy, but it certainly is not impossible. Also, again, I never said the museum would be turned into a casino, I said a plot of land somewhere else along the river and expanded it to anywhere in OKC in later posts.

I know it would need permission from the legislature, hence why i said an agreement would have to be made allow a tribe to locate one in OKC. If they could get it done for remington park, it could be done for this. i never said it would be easy, but it certainly is not impossible. Also, again, I never said the museum would be turned into a casino, I said a plot of land somewhere else along the river and expanded it to anywhere in OKC in later posts.

the tribe didn't get a "casino" at remington ..... the horse track got slots to help it stay viable .. before the tribe bought the track ....... they don't get to do anything there other than slots

You just articulated the level of expectation or knowledge most Okies have of a cultural center or museum. It is this belief that all OK is capable of is producing a "kitschy tourist trap" that leads our tea party hicks to provide only enough money to make that a self fulfilling prophecy. If that is your expectation that will be your budget, and your result.

Are you not capable of understanding the point I am making about this particular "Cultural Center". As it seems you are obsessed with telegraphing your own hateful, bigoted stereotypes of Okies and tea party hick rhetoric, I'll infer your disingenuity in the response means you're willingly not listening or you just aren't interested in a civil discourse on the matter. You hate Okies, tea partiers, hicks, great, we get that. Hope your hate keeps you warm at night.

That said, I'll try again: It is THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE of a "Cultural Center" that is designed from the word go to serve as a kitschy tourist center. It isn't about my personal expectations. It's what makes this entire project such a farce on its face.

I guess I don't understand why the plans for this AICC would be considered a "kitschy tourist center." I've reviewed the plans for the center and it seems to be a place for learning. Does it want to draw tourists? Of course, but plans vary from a research library to places that afford deeper cultural understandingwithin a sense of place that seem worthwhile. It makes sense that individual tribes would want their own cultural centers because each tribe has unique culture and history. However, there are also commonalities to the Native experience and much of this is intertwined with the creation and history of the state of Oklahoma. This cultural center would allow OKC visitors, who may be very unlikely to venture out to the small towns where individual centers reside, to gain some sense of perspective and understanding regarding the Native experience. I'm not an expert on this project, but I do not understand your emphatic characterization of the center as "kitschy."

SoonerDave: I'm not sure what you found that leads you to the conclusion that the AICC was "designed from the word go to serve as a kitschy tourist center" (more akin to something you might find out at Frontier City). From everything I have read on it (from the proposal on), the opposite has been the case.

PhiAlpha: while not impossible on the local and/or State level, it would require Federal involvement as well. A casino was proposed in the Bricktown area by a tribe a few years ago. That idea got a very icy reception by the Mayor and others. That same tribe proposed building a "resort" out by Frontier City. Again, that idea was rejected by City leaders, Remington Park, the horse industry and many others, including then Representative Mary Fallin. One of the main problems is, a tribe can't just buy land & build a casino on it. it has to be put into Federal trust and go thru all of the Federal regulatory red tape. Also there has to be an historical claim to the area (the tribe in question has no such claim, they are located up near Tulsa). Don't know if it is true or not, but reportedly, none of the Oklahoma tribes would meet the historical claim criteria to build a casino within the OKC central core.

Remington is a unique case as it was authorized as part of the Racino (approved by voters). There appears to be some loophole that allows a tribe to come in and operate a Racino after it is up and running. From what I understand, the tribe that operates Remington park doesn't own the land itself, they are just the owner/operator of the facilities...the land is owned by the Zoo Trust or something along those lines (they receive money from Remington)

Interesting, thanks for the in depth info.

Are you not capable of understanding the point I am making about this particular "Cultural Center". As it seems you are obsessed with telegraphing your own hateful, bigoted stereotypes of Okies and tea party hick rhetoric, I'll infer your disingenuity in the response means you're willingly not listening or you just aren't interested in a civil discourse on the matter. You hate Okies, tea partiers, hicks, great, we get that. Hope your hate keeps you warm at night.

That said, I'll try again: It is THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE of a "Cultural Center" that is designed from the word go to serve as a kitschy tourist center. It isn't about my personal expectations. It's what makes this entire project such a farce on its face.

I don't hate Okies, I just hate it when they act like the stereotypes the rest of the country thinks they are. There is nothing bigoted about describing narrow mindedness. When the best solution to every problem is to build another Casino or to expect another oil company to pay for it then it is pitiful. Sometimes the people just need to stand up and support arts, education and culture. (I have to admit, I do make fun of tea partiers, but it is just because it is so easy to do.)

And describing it over and over as a kitschy tourist center proves you just don't get it. You think if you repeat it enough it makes it true.

I walked in there one day when there was no one there and I looked around inside the building and it was great quality so I don't understand how anyone thinks that is a nicky nack project, this is thing is GREAT!

Higher profile yes, but I disagree that having a high profile casino near downtown would ruin any momentum, especially on the south side of the river further east of the museum which is a rundown area right now as it is.

As long as its not in the CBD or Bricktown (or north of there). The south side of the river could work and would be removed enough from downtown to negate any negative effects.

SoonerDave: I'm not sure what you found that leads you to the conclusion that the AICC was "designed from the word go to serve as a kitschy tourist center" (more akin to something you might find out at Frontier City). From everything I have read on it (from the proposal on), the opposite has been the case.

PhiAlpha: while not impossible on the local and/or State level, it would require Federal involvement as well. A casino was proposed in the Bricktown area by a tribe a few years ago. That idea got a very icy reception by the Mayor and others. That same tribe proposed building a "resort" out by Frontier City. Again, that idea was rejected by City leaders, Remington Park, the horse industry and many others, including then Representative Mary Fallin. One of the main problems is, a tribe can't just buy land & build a casino on it. it has to be put into Federal trust and go thru all of the Federal regulatory red tape. Also there has to be an historical claim to the area (the tribe in question has no such claim, they are located up near Tulsa). Don't know if it is true or not, but reportedly, none of the Oklahoma tribes would meet the historical claim criteria to build a casino within the OKC central core.

Remington is a unique case as it was authorized as part of the Racino (approved by voters). There appears to be some loophole that allows a tribe to come in and operate a Racino after it is up and running. From what I understand, the tribe that operates Remington park doesn't own the land itself, they are just the owner/operator of the facilities...the land is owned by the Zoo Trust or something along those lines (they receive money from Remington)

The Wichita and Kiowa were native to the area that includes OKC, though their present day boundaries of their nations are now to the west and southwest. I believe those may be the only two.

I would be happy to donate my 80+ dollars of tax relief towards the completion of this complex.

I would be happy to donate my 80+ dollars of tax relief towards the completion of this complex.

+1

And thanks for proving there are some people around here with a sense of priorities.

I would donate mine too.

I can't believe our state leaders do all this talk and it was for a whopping $88. I mean damn, what does it matter?

Here is a better solution....have the citizens of this state step up and support adequate funding for a first class cultural site for a change. Stand up to the tea party zealots and insist on doing it right. Tighten up the administration and finish the damn job for once. Don't double down on a bad idea of ceasing funding by trading for one more cheap casino that drains our citizenry.
Don't you get it? The fact is, ONLY the State (taxpayers) HAS stepped up. According to reports, there have been 3 separate bond issues for the danged thing (each time costs rose, with promises that this would be the last time they would come begging for more). The other 2 legs of the 3 legged funding stool have NOT come anywhere close to the original 1/3 each funding plan, much less the increased costs.



I would be happy to donate my 80+ dollars of tax relief towards the completion of this complex.
By all means, do so, but you will be advancing the AICC the money as the tax relief doesn't kick in until Jan 2015 (and not reported until 2016)
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-income-tax-cut-set-for-2015/article/3801102

Don't you get it? The fact is, ONLY the State (taxpayers) HAS stepped up.

As they should.

I know that scares you that the citizens should actually pay for things like first rate museums, cultural centers, etc. when we should take our $88 dollars and go waste it at the nearest casino.

Rover: You STILL don't get it do you? The citizens HAVE paid for this 9and are still paying for the bond issues and the amintenance of the site etc). They HAVE stepped up. it doesn't scare me at all. I am in complete agreement as there are certain things Government SHOULD be involved in (other things like building arenas for a for-profit private owned business, not so much). At some point you have to realize the folly of it and stop pouring good money after bad. I want the AICC to be built and finished, but at what further cost to the taxpayers???

I don't mind my money going towards first class facilities. Where I have a problem is my money going towards a project that has shown no ability to budget and manage funds wisely. The ineptitude of all involved in planning and budgeting this has just been embarrassing.

^^^
:iagree::congrats::congrats::congrats::yeahthat:

I don't mind my money going towards first class facilities. Where I have a problem is my money going towards a project that has shown no ability to budget and manage funds wisely. The ineptitude of all involved in planning and budgeting this has just been embarrassing.

It wasn't ineptitude so much as the leadership choosing to make it a first class facility whereas the state wants a cheap one. And the public expects a first class AND cheap project.

It wasn't ineptitude so much as the leadership choosing to make it a first class facility whereas the state wants a cheap one. And the public expects a first class AND cheap project.

This was kind of my understanding. I thought a study showed that there was no mismanagement of funds, but that they planned for a top notch facility. Of course, their mistake seems to be in assuming that more funding was coming, which is probably not wise.

So, while the planning was not wise considering financial and political realities, it also was an ambitious effort to build a top-notch facility.

Exactly. We've investigated these people. No negligence found. So why do people continue to complain about the "leadership"?

It's just political cover. The leadership is fine. Blake Wade is as good as it gets.

Noted the legislature and governor also denied state employees a pay raise; they haven't had one since 2006, and it was a paltry one then. Instead, they are going to do a "study" to determine what to pay people. No one in their right mind needs a study to figure out these folks deserve some kind of raise.

In this case, "study" is the same legislative euphemism for doing nothing as "failure of leadership." Frank Luntz would approve.

This was kind of my understanding. I thought a study showed that there was no mismanagement of funds, but that they planned for a top notch facility. Of course, their mistake seems to be in assuming that more funding was coming, which is probably not wise.

So, while the planning was not wise considering financial and political realities, it also was an ambitious effort to build a top-notch facility.

God forbid we actually build something first class that people may want to visit.

I think the biggest problem is that they way overestimated how much private donations were going to come in and probably should have waited to start construction until they had more money in hand.

However, just because there wasn't and negligence found, doesn't mean there isn't someone to blame for handing and managing this process.