Well for me it all comes down to cost. As designed it simply costs way too much. Maybe it should have been built on 25 acres, not 250 acres. Maybe it shouldn't have been built on contaminated soil that had to be cleaned. I want a Porsche 911 Turbo Carrera, but I can't afford one. So instead I bought something I could afford. Does that mean I am anti-car because I don't want to go head over heels in debt on a car? No, it means I was financially prudent and bought something I could afford to own. The state simply bought something it couldn’t afford to own (see half the house in America).

So how did something so over the top expensive get approved? Answer, the backers of the project projected revenue that in no way, shape, or form was ever achievable ($550,000 a day - every day - for 20 years). Why someone would even believe that was possible is beyond me.

Then we have the whole issue of bait and switch on who should pay for this. It was supposed to be a combination of private donations (the Tribes), federal money, and matching state funds. So far, only the state has paid for their share of the agreement and now they are being asked to pick up even more. When the state says, “Hey, we are tapped out”, they all of a sudden become the bad guy.

So what can be done about it now? Does it make sense to continue spending money on something that nearly everyone thinks is great even if it isn’t affordable? That is how Washington DC works; that shouldn’t be how Oklahoma works. The backers say they have $40 million in private donations just waiting for matching state money. Well the state ALREADY put up their share so these people with the $40 million need to pay up.

"Tea Partiers" believe in less government and letting the private sector do most of the work. This project is a perfect example of the government deciding that something should be built that recognizes a specific group (native Americans), but not having their support, construction funds or a management team.

Call me "narrow-minded" if you like, but those facts are irrefutable, and are why this deal is dead.

Those presumptions are not "facts" just because you declare it so. It is your spin.

Well for me it all comes down to cost. As designed it simply costs way too much. Maybe it should have been built on 25 acres, not 250 acres. Maybe it shouldn't have been built on contaminated soil that had to be cleaned. I want a Porsche 911 Turbo Carrera, but I can't afford one. So instead I bought something I could afford. Does that mean I am anti-car because I don't want to go head over heels in debt on a car? No, it means I was financially prudent and bought something I could afford to own. The state simply bought something it couldn’t afford to own (see half the house in America).

So how did something so over the top expensive get approved? Answer, the backers of the project projected revenue that in no way, shape, or form was ever achievable ($550,000 a day - every day - for 20 years). Why someone would even believe that was possible is beyond me.

Then we have the whole issue of bait and switch on who should pay for this. It was supposed to be a combination of private donations (the Tribes), federal money, and matching state funds. So far, only the state has paid for their share of the agreement and now they are being asked to pick up even more. When the state says, “Hey, we are tapped out”, they all of a sudden become the bad guy.

So what can be done about it now? Does it make sense to continue spending money on something that nearly everyone thinks is great even if it isn’t affordable? That is how Washington DC works; that shouldn’t be how Oklahoma works. The backers say they have $40 million in private donations just waiting for matching state money. Well the state ALREADY put up their share so these people with the $40 million need to pay up.

This state thinks cheap. The legislature thinks cheap. Culture is considered a luxury here. It is very discouraging.

I like your car analogy. If you have 5 kids and you went out and bought the cheapest car you could get with not enough room and inadequate safety, try convincing your kids it was "prudent" when they die in a car wreck.

This state thinks cheap. The legislature thinks cheap. Culture is considered a luxury here. It is very discouraging.

They paid $100 million on this and they are the cheap ones?

This state thinks cheap. The legislature thinks cheap. Culture is considered a luxury here. It is very discouraging.

I like your car analogy. If you have 5 kids and you went out and bought the cheapest car you could get with not enough room and inadequate safety, try convincing your kids it was "prudent" when they die in a car wreck.

Sorry, but I reject the argument that "culture considered a luxury" is an analog for "a car...with not enough room and inadequate safety" and then using a hyperbolic extreme of death as a rationale for why "culture" should be just as important.

Our state capitol is crumbling. We have teachers among the worst paid in the nation. Our state roads and bridges are among the the worst in the country. If the worst thing our legislators have done is to deem additional funding for a cultural center to have been an imprudent expenditure of tax dollars, I don't think our state's safety is imperiled as a result. Granted, those other issues are anything but fixed, but a state's funding priorities should be focused on those areas before being routed to what amounts to a tourist attraction.

One might persuade me to support the concept of a cultural center, but the persuasion is lost when a fallacious analogy to death-by-car-wreck is used as justification for it.

Sid - I'm not alone in saying that this benefits native Americans so they should step up and support it, but I can only speak for myself, so here goes:

I understand that this idea was hatched by members of the legislature who are infamous for building monuments with other people's money, and in this instance did so without the support of Oklahoma's native Americans, even Enoch Kelly Haney (If I see a proposal for an air & space museum and astronauts aren't behind it, it's reasonable to ask why). Additional opposition arose at the legislature from legislators whose districts this won't benefit. Perhaps this should have been proposed as an OKC project and included in MAPS, but it wasn't, and you'll recall the battles which were fought over sports versus arts versus education, all of which resulted in compromise. (That being said, if this would be presented as the "next MAPS" - one penny to complete the center - I believe that it would fail overwhelmingly.) Further, many citizens feel that native Americans receive enough preferential treatment in gambling, casinos, tobacco, license plates, tribal sovereignty, judicial exemption from US courts, etc., and so "if they want something that benefits them, let them pay the bill."

That's just my two cents' worth, but regardless, the center lies incomplete, dormant and leaderless, the legislature wants nothing further to do with it, the OKC Chamber failed to raise necessary funds, and no-one else is stepping in with the money and plans to finish and run it.

I’ll repeat my original solution which is offer it at absolute auction to the highest bidder, and let them finish it for whatever purpose they have in mind, subject to local codes, ordinances and regulations.

They paid $100 million on this and they are the cheap ones?

Yes.

Sorry, but I reject the argument that "culture considered a luxury" is an analog for "a car...with not enough room and inadequate safety" and then using a hyperbolic extreme of death as a rationale for why "culture" should be just as important.

Our state capitol is crumbling. We have teachers among the worst paid in the nation. Our state roads and bridges are among the the worst in the country. If the worst thing our legislators have done is to deem additional funding for a cultural center to have been an imprudent expenditure of tax dollars, I don't think our state's safety is imperiled as a result. Granted, those other issues are anything but fixed, but a state's funding priorities should be focused on those areas before being routed to what amounts to a tourist attraction.

One might persuade me to support the concept of a cultural center, but the persuasion is lost when a fallacious analogy to death-by-car-wreck is used as justification for it.

Text without context is pretext. Put the analogy in context before being indignant.

I always hear people say that our teachers are among the worst paid in the nation but the following link ranks Oklahoma Teacher's 20th when their average pay is adjusted with the cost of living index.

State Education Rankings: Public Teacher Salaries - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com (http://voices.yahoo.com/state-education-rankings-public-teacher-salaries-6445492.html)

Hijack alert!!!

I'm so confused by the notion that this is a responsibility of Native Americans.

Should a space museum be paid for by Astronauts? Zoos should be paid for by selling zebra pelts? History of air travel museum funded by pilots everywhere?

This is a public structure. Not a tribal office. The subject matter shouldn't implicate a group of people to necessarily fund the project -- at least not substantially.

Now if the Tribes want to pay, then of course that'd be a good thing. But this isn't a project for the Tribes. This is a project for the human race. Everyone benefits.


It's much easier to discuss building museums when you ignore the subject matter. Focus on funding, revenue, management, etc. People get all caught up in the subject matter. Butterflies, Native Americans, Bibles, whatever.

I've been trying to say this for a long time on this thread. LarryOKC claims the tribes all wanted this, but I've yet to see where a large number of tribes promised to financially support this. This museum, if finished, will benefit Oklahoma City greatly as an amenity for the city. This city needs more amenities to be an attactive place to visit. The city and state need to get this done. It's silly to give up at this point. If mistakes were made then we need to learn from those, but scrapping the project is a terrible idea.

This has the potential to be a Skirvin Plaza and rescued, or a Stage Center and (most likely) torn down.

Which one?

Text without context is pretext. Put the analogy in context before being indignant.

Hyperbole by any other name is still hyperbole. You put the analogy out there, not I.

To the couple that responded to my post:

I'm not saying that the tribes wont benefit or that it is a project that is too expensive or ill timed. I'm simply suggesting that if we are going to build a museum, we should fund it for the sake of the culture and economic development benefit.

I'd love to discuss museum funding in this state. It stinks. I'd like to see a tax like we have for the zoo, voted on by the people and dedicated to make these places prosperous. Though, I'd also like it to go to make admission free or almost free. To me, museums are like Libraries. We always need them. Must always fund them. And shouldn't really charge to use them.

That's just my .02

+1

I'd like to see a tax like we have for the zoo, voted on by the people and dedicated to make these places prosperous. Though, I'd also like it to go to make admission free or almost free. To me, museums are like Libraries. We always need them. Must always fund them. And shouldn't really charge to use them.


Sid, I agree with this 100%. I'm afraid we will never see that here, though.

I've been trying to say this for a long time on this thread. LarryOKC claims the tribes all wanted this, but I've yet to see where a large number of tribes promised to financially support this. This museum, if finished, will benefit Oklahoma City greatly as an amenity for the city. This city needs more amenities to be an attactive place to visit. The city and state need to get this done. It's silly to give up at this point. If mistakes were made then we need to learn from those, but scrapping the project is a terrible idea.

It is worth noting that when the museum authority approached the Legislature for bonds, at each time they have specifically mentioned the tribes as being one of the sources from which they would raise the remainder of their funding. These were affirmative assurances. I don't personally believe the tribes have any particular obligation to support this project, but the authority has certainly implicated they would. They were wrong.

Anyway, I'd love to see the thing completed, but the real scandal is the paltry amount they have accumulated in the way of exhibit material at this point. The need $50 million to finish construction, but after having more than 15 years to plan it, they claim to need another $30 million to buy exhibits. And I would not be surprised if their projections are substantially lower than what they actually need on both counts.

This may have been mentioned earlier in this discussion, but if it was I think it's worth mentioning again; The OKC National Memorial cost $30 million to build. Granted, that was 15 years ago, but even adjusting for the inflation, that is still a fraction of that the AICCM is projected to cost. And I think you'd have a hard time convincing anyone that the AICCM will generate anywhere near the amount of national attention and tourism income.

Hyperbole by any other name is still hyperbole. You put the analogy out there, not I.

Actually I didn't. The car analogy started earlier.

It still stands....This state's funding for culture is tragic.

This may have been mentioned earlier in this discussion, but if it was I think it's worth mentioning again; The OKC National Memorial cost $30 million to build. Granted, that was 15 years ago, but even adjusting for the inflation, that is still a fraction of that the AICCM is projected to cost. And I think you'd have a hard time convincing anyone that the AICCM will generate anywhere near the amount of national attention and tourism income.

Just curious if you have ever been to ANY of the Smithsonian museums or a major museum? It is entirely possible to have very good numbers of visitors and especially out of town visitors. The draw for this is much greater than the Memorial and scale and scope much larger.

It is worth noting that when the museum authority approached the Legislature for bonds, at each time they have specifically mentioned the tribes as being one of the sources from which they would raise the remainder of their funding. These were affirmative assurances. I don't personally believe the tribes have any particular obligation to support this project, but the authority has certainly implicated they would. They were wrong.

Anyway, I'd love to see the thing completed, but the real scandal is the paltry amount they have accumulated in the way of exhibit material at this point. The need $50 million to finish construction, but after having more than 15 years to plan it, they claim to need another $30 million to buy exhibits. And I would not be surprised if their projections are substantially lower than what they actually need on both counts.

They received a matching pledge of $40 million on top of donations already made. I would say that is good private support.

They received a matching pledge of $40 million on top of donations already made. I would say that is good private support.

The state/feds already spent over $100 million. The private donors should match that.

Say what they want about a dedicated tax to pay for museums (which is a good idea) but this place already received $100 million in public funds. It needs $80 million to finish construction and another $30 million for exhibits. The Rubicon has not yet been crossed.

Is there a detailed breakdown of the cost anywhere?

The state/feds already spent over $100 million. The private donors should match that.


Why in the world should private donors be obligated to provide half the funding on a state cultural item? That is absurd. Nice when it happens, but not to be expected. There are some generous private entities in this state (many of whom some on here despise because of their success) who give great amounts to benefit this city and state. To expect them to always hand out money is outrageous. This is something the citizens should and could support if they have a real commitment to history and culture of this state. Otherwise, it takes no commitment to expect others to give it to us.

Why in the world should private donors be obligated to provide half the funding on a state cultural item? That is absurd. Nice when it happens, but not to be expected. There are some generous private entities in this state (many of whom some on here despise because of their success) who give great amounts to benefit this city and state. To expect them to always hand out money is outrageous. This is something the citizens should and could support if they have a real commitment to history and culture of this state. Otherwise, it takes no commitment to expect others to give it to us.

Because that was the deal the supporters of the AICC made with the State Legislature to secure the public funding. The citizens did care and support it to the tune of $100 million. The government IS us.

On edit - the private donations only total $31 million, not the $40 million we were told. It seems they were counting the City of Oklahoma City's $9 million kick-in as 'private' funds.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-considers-9m-in-funding-for-american-indian-cultural-center-and-museum/article/3661023

Audit cites woes for American Indian Cultural Center and Museum | Tulsa World (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=336&articleid=20121018_16_A1_CUTLIN214764)


OKLAHOMA CITY - An audit found multiple problems with efforts to create a multimillion-dollar American Indian Cultural Center and Museum, which has now been mothballed due to lack of funding.

...

To date, the facility received about $97 million in state funds, nearly $15.7 million in federal dollars and $8 million from other sources. The figures do not include $40 million in pledges if the state agrees to match it with another $40 million. [of which $9 million was from the City]

...

"The board chose the most expensive of six proposals presented by its architect," Jones said. "They decided to build a $169 million facility when only $5 million in funding had been secured. Throughout the years, although additional funding was not forthcoming, the board maintained its commitment to the most expensive plan."

...

Due to the board and staff's lack of experience, the board spent more than $18.7 million on multiple consultants, the audit said.

...

The Native American Cultural and Educational Authority's fundraising efforts before 2012 appear to have produced minimal returns, raising only $8.3 million, the audit said.

...

"This project is the epitome of government waste and demonstrates how easy it is for government officials to spend other people's money," Anderson said. "The leadership of this project has failed miserably, and their failure does not deserve to be rewarded with additional state funding."

And here are more pie in the sky numbers.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-council-pledges-9m-to-finish-museum/article/3661301


City officials expect $4 million in new sales taxes annually as a result of visitor spending at the facility.



To get $4 million in sales tax revenue would take $100 million in NEW spending within the City limits directly contributed to the AICC. That is $273,000 a day. Who the hell comes up with these numbers?

We get it, you don't like museums.

Getting a forward pledge of $40 WAS significant. It is our backwards thinking legislators who can't seem to believe museums are important in building a modern state. And our backward thinking citizens think that is right. So we wonder why the rest of the country looks at most of the citizens as being hicks or right wing nuts. Tea Party rules here.

Everyone criticizes when we do a half arsed project and we have a chance to do one and we want to either buy a doublewide or forget about it. For all so many want to demigog about diversity, creativity, improving society, quality, etc., it sure is hollow when it comes to supporting important cultural projects.

To get $4 million in sales tax revenue would take $100 million in NEW spending within the City limits directly contributed to the AICC. That is $273,000 a day. Who the hell comes up with these numbers?

So an example is a family driving on I-40 with no plans to stop in OKC. Someone looks out the window and sees the AICC. They pull over, go in, spend $273, and are one of 1,000 families to do this. That day. Every day. For. Ever.

Sure - I can get behind those projections.

So an example is a family driving on I-40 with no plans to stop in OKC. Someone looks out the window and sees the AICC. They pull over, go in, spend $273, and are one of 1,000 families to do this. That day. Every day. For. Ever.

Sure - I can get behind those projections.

Well, who knows, though I doubt it. None the less you would be surprised. I worked for the Myriad Gardens for 12 years. During that time we found that about 60-70% of the people who came to the gardens (specifically the Crystal Bridge where they paid) were from 'out of town'. When I asked how is it they came to know about the gardens, 75% said that they saw it from I-40 and wanted to know what it was. I-40 has since moved, makes me wonder if 'out of town' visitors will decrease.

I've been trying to say this for a long time on this thread. LarryOKC claims the tribes all wanted this, but I've yet to see where a large number of tribes promised to financially support this. This museum, if finished, will benefit Oklahoma City greatly as an amenity for the city. This city needs more amenities to be an attactive place to visit. The city and state need to get this done. It's silly to give up at this point. If mistakes were made then we need to learn from those, but scrapping the project is a terrible idea.

Maybe go back and read the thread, do some research on it as I have done...I don't think I ever said ALL the tribes wanted it, but a good number of tribes did and gave their support to it (in words if not resources). If I had the time to go back and dig it all up again, I would, but I don't.

Well, who knows, though I doubt it. None the less you would be surprised. I worked for the Myriad Gardens for 12 years. During that time we found that about 60-70% of the people who came to the gardens (specifically the Crystal Bridge where they paid) were from 'out of town'. When I asked how is it they came to know about the gardens, 75% said that they saw it from I-40 and wanted to know what it was. I-40 has since moved, makes me wonder if 'out of town' visitors will decrease.

Now this is where we start getting into the fuzzy math. Is the stop at Myraid Gardens the ONLY thing these people did in OKC? Because that is what the AICC figures claim. According to them, their projections are for new dollars. Let's say this hypothetical family gets off at the AICC (spends $150) and then they swing by Bricktown for lunch ($100) and then go do the zipline ($50) - all while 'passing through town mind you. Who gets credit for the $300? The AICC says they get ALL the credit. The Bricktown restaurant and zipline operator had nothing to do with the income generation. Meanwhile, the zipline operator claims all the credit for himself and the Bricktown guys does the same. So $300 real dollars get spent and $900 in new dollar generation are claimed. I guess that is how they get to $250,000 a day. To bad the real world doesn't work that way.

Why in the world should private donors be obligated to provide half the funding on a state cultural item? That is absurd. Nice when it happens, but not to be expected. There are some generous private entities in this state (many of whom some on here despise because of their success) who give great amounts to benefit this city and state. To expect them to always hand out money is outrageous. This is something the citizens should and could support if they have a real commitment to history and culture of this state. Otherwise, it takes no commitment to expect others to give it to us.

And I suspect this is why it will never be finished - Okies NEVER finish what they start, have you seen the condition of the roads, yards, public spaces? If it is outside of buisness, it has no reason to exist. Case-in-point the Myriad Gardens. The original grounds was to be multi-functional (similar to what it is today) including a hotel. A tunnel was built to the Galleria mall site - but the mall was never built.
Thus, there was no revenue stream for grounds operation (no mall). So the gounds were taken over by the OKC parks dept. Over the years there were donations to enhance the grounds with specialty gardens that slowy began to transform the grounds into a real garden, and not just another bad park - all of these were destroyed in the current 'make-over'. In the initial construction that included grounds recovery (use to be a lot of big buildings, and pollution on this site), digging a lake, and building a world class conservatory - most of the money came from the Federal Government. Roughly, the funds were 75% Federal, 23% private (mostly Kerr-Mcgee) 2% local. The city parks dept. spent years watering the plants - and watching the buildings detoriate. No money was ever forth-coming from OKC to finish the project. Private donors and grants slowly began to fill in the grounds with new projects - art for the grounds was donated, but there was never the money for completion or 'up-keep'.
Finally, there was a bond to 're-skin' the conservatory, but still no money for maintenance - this really straps the OKC parks dept. Then, Devon steps in and they want to finish the gardens to its original concept. Generally a good idea, but as is typical of Landscape architects they sought to save nothing of all the private funded improvements and 'wipe the slate clean'. Ok, the finish project looks good, though good specialty gardens were lost. Still it looks good .... but still no money for upkeep. OKC was twice given a garden - all they had to do was maintain. The parks dept. does what it can, but the up-keep burdens the dept. Currently they are in a transition from the parks dept. to the 'foundation' (which always existed, getting the private donations for the specialty gardens), but they are going to be hard-pressed to maintain this wonderfull and deverse gardens .....but there is still no effort to support the maintenance on the part of the people of OKC, like they do the zoo. Okies want something for notin, so when something gets too expensive, they do what they always do ... never finish it.

Now this is where we start getting into the fuzzy math. Is the stop at Myraid Gardens the ONLY thing these people did in OKC? Because that is what the AICC figures claim. According to them, their projections are for new dollars. Let's say this hypothetical family gets off at the AICC (spends $150) and then they swing by Bricktown for lunch ($100) and then go do the zipline ($50) - all while 'passing through town mind you. Who gets credit for the $300? The AICC says they get ALL the credit. The Bricktown restaurant and zipline operator had nothing to do with the income generation. Meanwhile, the zipline operator claims all the credit for himself and the Bricktown guys does the same. So $300 real dollars get spent and $900 in new dollar generation are claimed. I guess that is how they get to $250,000 a day. To bad the real world doesn't work that way.

Intresting, good point. Most of that time there was no bricktown - and certainly no 'river district' The arts Festival use to be on the grounds (OMG the damage - it took the rest of the year to recover, new grounds designed for it), then the 4th of July moved to the gardens. Then Spegetti Warehouse open, went to lunch there a couple of times. Then something strange happen, people took a chance, wanted more, saw possibilites of a downtown that looked like it did during Arts Festival - they voted for Maps. If you don't invest in yourselves, others will not 'stop at all', and certainly not invest in you.

TAlanCB - I'm all for investing in OKC but there is good investing and bad investing. This Center is a bad investment. They still need over $80 million just to finish it. What is left to build that could possible cost $80 million?

Now this is where we start getting into the fuzzy math.

lol. That's all there has been on most of this thread. Skew the math to make a point. Fuzzy facts. Fuzzy math. Fuzzy logic.

Bottom line....some Okies don't want to pay for museums and consider it a waste of money. Others want it finished and consider it valuable to showcase the history and culture of an incredibly important part of Oklahoma's people. The rest is just posturing and spinning.

Bottom line....some Okies don't want to pay for museums and consider it a waste of money. Others want it finished and consider it valuable to showcase the history and culture of an incredibly important part of Oklahoma's people. The rest is just posturing and spinning.

Yes, that must be the "bottom line". There can be no other reason to believe the Legislature should not give these unqualified buffoons another $40 million this year and another $30 million two years later when they step forward and say they still couldn't raise any private funding and still don't have the exhibits. I could support bond financing if they fired the entire staff, transferred the agency and its appropriated dollars to a real, competent state agency like the historical society and came forward with actual fundraising success rather than hypothetical matching dollars. And I wouldn't need that much success along those lines, but we're talking about an agency that has managed to raise a single-digit percentage of the funding they promised the Legislature they would secure when they struck bond deals. Yet, you suggest the $40 million matching guarantee is substantive. They haven't raised $40 million in private funding in their entire 15+ year history of existence. Don't be a fool.

I mean, seriously, three months after they hired Blake Wade they stepped forward and claimed to have $40 million in matching private guarantees, when they haven't raised that much in 15+ years, and then the facility is put on hiatus shortly after the Legislature calls his bluff, and you expect me to believe the claimed $40 million match was actually a thing? They couldn't get, say, $5 million to keep going for another two months while they sought additional private donations?

Intresting, good point. Most of that time there was no bricktown - and certainly no 'river district' The arts Festival use to be on the grounds (OMG the damage - it took the rest of the year to recover, new grounds designed for it), then the 4th of July moved to the gardens. Then Spegetti Warehouse open, went to lunch there a couple of times. Then something strange happen, people took a chance, wanted more, saw possibilites of a downtown that looked like it did during Arts Festival - they voted for Maps. If you don't invest in yourselves, others will not 'stop at all', and certainly not invest in you.

These places also have the benefit of being in walking distance of each other and not separated by two interstates.

These places also have the benefit of being in walking distance of each other and not separated by two interstates.

... and a 400 foot wide river.

These places also have the benefit of being in walking distance of each other and not separated by two interstates.

But you can still see it from the interstate, and the river boathouses. Seriously, you don't think people who visited the Myriad Gardens in those days even knew what Bricktown was? We told them and assured them there was plenty of free parking. No one would consider walking past the convention center, bus stop (now arena) and under the viaduct. The train track was, and to some extent still is, a wall. La Luna got most of the pedestrian buisness, otherwise it was hop in a car and go.

TAlanCB - I'm all for investing in OKC but there is good investing and bad investing. This Center is a bad investment. They still need over $80 million just to finish it. What is left to build that could possible cost $80 million?

A significant portion of the original cost was cleaning the site, it was'nt just old tires. Though I doubt it would have qualified as a 'super-fund' site, it was a chemical mess next to a important water course. Have you ever seen the renderings of the completed site? It is much more than just the buildings and monument hill (the ignorance of indian culture and history in regarding the landscaping architecture is astonishing - and truely sad coming form 'Okies'). The project was a complex, there was to be extensive land recovery (not just cleaning) and culturally significant reproductions (villages, etc.) The entire area from the I-35 bridge to the I-40 bridge was to be utilized in some form. It would have been a impressive complex, not just a couple of buildings and 'pile of dirt'. The most expensive and time-consuming portions were done first, so the core of the complex is done - but the bones have never been 'fleshed out'. The lack of local support only inforces what Tulsans and other competeing interest are doing - laughing their asses off. They did it! They stop a major project in OKC that had manage to garner resources from the entire state. They have 'turned-the-tide', the OKC Reniassance has been slowed - now if they can only somehow get the capital complex back out of OKC....

One more thing. 80million - really? You think that is significant (though, no doubt I would'nt mind having it) amount on a major complex? A new arena would cost 3 times that much, the couple miles of relocated I-40 cost more than 5 times that. Heck, I-40 could have been up-dated and repaired in its previous location and there would have been enough money left over to build OKC a street-car light rail system. When you invest 'half-way' and expect others to invest in you, why are you shocked that others will not? It is clear to them, the buildings were torn down - but nothing was ever put in their place. MAPs have driven buisness because it was completed - at a snails pace - but completed. But even MAPs is in danger due to 'bad planning'. The lack of finishing the AICC - especially of OKC not stepping up - is a clear signal to potential investors that the community is no longer willing to do what it takes to get things done. It is especially a 'black eye' because of what it is - ethnic and cultural. Life is not just buisness, every community that has become noteable around the world has understood this. People don't go to New York just to see another tall building. Boston had to stuggle (and still does) through the 'big dig', but do you think anyone wants to go back to what it was like before? Sometimes community growth hits un-expected snags, but to grow you have to push through. OKC was devestated by outsiders planning 'urban renewal'. When the money from the 'outside' dried up, the city was left badly damaged. When OKC planned and funded urban renewal for itself - it began to recover and boom again. Don't kid yourselves, this is that moment again, 'others' are watching, and what is done - or not done - will determine OKC's future path.

Well I guess we have come full circle once again. Several days spent discussing something we have no power over and isn't going to happen anyhow. If you, Rover, and the others want it finished as planned then more power to you. I would prefer they go back and look at their 6 options, pick the cheapest option, and see how much it would cost to build that. If it can be done for $40 million then they already have that money in pocket.

How about OKC offers the land to the east and the rights to build a mega Indian casino to any tribe that will fund the museum's completion. Then you will have Native American past and present right next to each other for everyone's enjoyment...any takers?

Well I guess we have come full circle once again. Several days spent discussing something we have no power over and isn't going to happen anyhow. If you, Rover, and the others want it finished as planned then more power to you. I would prefer they go back and look at their 6 options, pick the cheapest option, and see how much it would cost to build that. If it can be done for $40 million then they already have that money in pocket.

No, they don't have the $40 million because of our brilliant legislators.

No, they don't have the $40 million because of our brilliant legislators.

Our legislators already gave them one pile of money. That's enough. Feel free to write a personal check if its this important to you.

That's the Okie spirit. Let's play petty politics and scrap this thing. It's just culture anyway...what's the harm.

Oops . . . sorry . . . Please ignore this post. I say, give the Native Americans whatever they want.
Not because it will change history or anything . . . Because it is the right thing to do.

If there had been a casino next door, this place would probably still be in business.
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Chrome-Greetings-From-Indian-City-USA-near-Anadarko-OK-/00/$(KGrHqUOKoYE4uJCwqmkBOWDmuG7lQ~~_35.JPG
(of course, it would be in Anadarko . . .)

The Smithsonian has a proposed operating budget of $856 million this year. That is not the amount you would have to spend to build the Smithsonian. That is how much they are going to spend in 2013 to keep the doors open. I doubt they are going to bring nearly a billion dollars in taxes to Washington DC. Yet it is an invaluable addition to the city. To build an equivalent museum in Oklahoma City would cost tens of billions of dollars. It would also be worth it. The academic and cultural prestige that it would carry are literally priceless. It would catapult our city to international prominence in a way the Thunder could only dream of.

Of course there's no way in hell we could afford to build something like that.

The AICC will not be the Smithsonian. Not even close. But the total proposed cost of this project is only enough to keep the Smithsonian open from January until about early March. Museums, especially good ones, can be very expensive. The AICC has a lot of potential. It could serve as an anchor for construction on the south border of the river. Right now the largest cultural icon near that part of the river is Old Paris Flea Market. While development on the north side of the river picks up, we have yet to see anything happen on the south side.

This has the potential to be a large, and very cool educational and cultural project that isn't duplicated anywhere else. People say that OKC should stop copying other cities and start doing unique things, well this is unique. No, it won't pay for itself. But that should not be the standard for success, especially with cultural projects.

1138 Posts into The Subject, and I have to agree that the one, that is, the opinion shared, directly above, states the case for not leaving another eyesore, around The Metro, unaddressed, in the best--and most persuasive--way so far.

I am not saying that my opinion, nor my mind, on the issue was changed because I've always thought that this project was a good idea.

Perhaps, as a fund-raising effort, in furtherance of our mutual goal, people--ordinary folk with a desire for excellence, in MetroImprovement--could pay to tear down that "Goofy Art Shack Thing", over by the Devon, one sledghammer blow at a time, and maybe the funding gap, for something worthwhile, could be filled? One sledghammer blow/wheelbarrow load at a time?

(translation: AICC good . . . Unfinished Urban Art Statue from Urban Destruction Period bad . . . Do Something To Realize Vision (other than post))
(with proper permitting, of course.)

Perhaps the "battle-cry" could be: ""Remember The Boulevard!" . . .?

How about OKC offers the land to the east and the rights to build a mega Indian casino to any tribe that will fund the museum's completion. Then you will have Native American past and present right next to each other for everyone's enjoyment...any takers?

LOL, an Indian casino can't be built anywhere they own land.

LOL, an Indian casino can't be built anywhere they own land.

Really? We--the non-Native peeps--currently occupying Mid-NAFTAria can't voluntarily make amends for our prior trangressions and cede the property back to its rightful owners? =) If Pody Poe--remember him?--was "part Indian"--couldn't he have declared his garage over there in the slums of Nichols Hills tribal property or something? =)

Please do not construe the preceeding comment as anything involving "politics". thank you.

AICC: Yea alt: neigh.

...Getting a forward pledge of $40 WAS significant. It is our backwards thinking legislators ...

The fact of the matter is, the whole presumption that this was a "forward pledge" to get matching State funds is flawed and twisted by Mr. Wade to be something it isn't. The State is the ONLY one of the 3 funding entities that have come up with their original 1/3 share. ONLY the State has gone above and beyond their 1/3 share. If memory serves each time they went to the State for more bond money, it was going to be the last time. As others have pointed out, when they run out of the $80 million additional, they will be back for more with the same arguments, "we have spent too much to stop now". The $40 million pledge was just catching up to what the State had already kicked in.

This was the featured topic of Kelly Ogle's "Your Two Cents" last night on News9. Three out of four posts said "let's continue this thing". Nice to know there are other people out there that want to see this thing through!

This may not mean anything when it somes to the prospects for this project, but it can't hurt.

Oklahoma City Thunder executive joins board overseeing efforts to build American Indian museum | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-thunder-executive-joins-board-overseeing-efforts-to-build-american-indian-museum/article/3764376)

Well, I hope Clay can get it done. Needs to be done.

Barry Switzer is now on-board.

More time allowed for Oklahoma City American Indian Cultural Center | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/barry-switzer-applies-to-be-booster-for-american-indian-cultural-center/article/3778348)

Of course, there is the unlikely possibility that this is all just an April Fools' Day prank.

Love the comment from Fallin's communications director. How are they going to turn down Barry? I would like to see Mary try.

You know folks in OK are getting serious about something when the news, and others, start using football terminology. Oh look, there goes Barry trotting onto the field.