The reality is that the funding plan was evenly split:

1) State
2) Feds
3) Private donations (tribes)

Of those 3, only the state has come up with the its full share of the original 1/3 cost. Only the State stepped up with its 1/3 as cost increased. The AICC director has it backwards when he got pledges contingent on the State coughing up even more long term bond debt as a "match" (there have been 2 bond issues for this to date). The plan was for the private to match what the State put up. In other words, the State has already matched the private donations and then some.

You're right, but if people criticizing the state for not doling out obscene amounts of debt-backed money for an overly-elaborate museum during a recession that is miles away from the beginning of recovery haven't already figured out that most of the money for AICCM has already come from the state (and city, if you include the value of the land) and that invested private parties are going to have to dig into their pockets if they continue to demand the very best, they probably don't care. The funny thing about this is that they can go blame the Governor if they have a problem with it. See, the bond-issue was pretty well set to pass, but then Fallin had to get her panties in a wad and call up senators in the middle of the night to let them know that if it didn't pass, she would be calling a special session of the Legislature the week before the primary election. This would, of course, ruin the campaigns of those incumbents with challengers. Many of these senators compared notes and discovered who she had threatened, then put her on notice that if she followed through they would hold a press conference and explain plainly and in detail the power struggle that had ensued. They then killed the bill.

If you're in a fit about the AICCM not being funded by the state, go complain to Governor Fallin.

guys, if you ever have the pleasure to come to Seattle and have the time - take a visit to Blake Island Tillicum Villiage (http://www.tillicumvillage.com/). This is a natural island in Puget Sound that not only showcases the history of Seattle and the Puget Sound area but also the Native First Nations of the Salish Sea (Vancouver BC-Western WA).

This is a world class venue (the wife and I've visited twice, paying big bucks both times for the salmon dinner/cruise) that could provide inspiration for the AICCM but one should note that 1) the state government is not involved but instead a private company does it (named Argosy) and 2) none of the tribes are 'required' to participate but instead they offer the culture of the region in cooperation.

Im not naive enough to think a private company would take on the AICCM but I also think it is naive and hypocritical to expect the tribes to do it by themselves since it is tribal. Oklahoma has roots in Native America so this should be something the state should be all over IMO. OKC should have a world class museum experience 10 times better than our Blake Island since the culture is more dominant in your state.

I recommend a visit to Blake only to provide inspiration just as visits to Indy and San Antonio inspired OKC's current renaissance. Please stop bickering about who should fund the museum - get together the forces to pitch-in whatever is necessary and bring OKC it's 2nd world class museum completing the experience of Cowboys and Indians that is OKC historic culture.

...Im not naive enough to think a private company would take on the AICCM but I also think it is naive and hypocritical to expect the tribes to do it by themselves since it is tribal. Oklahoma has roots in Native America so this should be something the state should be all over IMO. ...

Again, the State has been "all over" it. But it is essentially a one-legged stool. The other 2 funding entities have supplied very short legs. At some point, you either have to get the other partners to pony up or stop throwing good money after bad. I want it to get finished but it needs to be done on a financially sound basis.

Supporters of an American Indian cultural center say the results of a state audit boost chances of completing the beleaguered project. (http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-16864-a-new-hope.html)
Tim Farley
Oklahoma Gazette
November 13th, 2012

A state audit that found no wrongdoing within the Native American Cultural and Educational Authority (NACEA) during the last nine years has given new life to a multimillion-dollar project in Oklahoma City.

When it finally opens, the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum, located at Interstate 40 and Eastern Avenue, is expected to become an international tourism destination.

Securing additional funds, however, continues to be the last major hurdle to completing construction that began six years ago. NACEA Executive Director Blake Wade said he’s counting on $40 million from the Legislature to finish the “world-class” facility, which has already received $91 million in government and private funding.

Wade acknowledged he has secured an additional $40 million from private donors who are “willing to stay with us for one more legislative session. I think we’re going into the next session with guns blazing.”

Oklahoma’s Indian tribes have been generous with their money; 23 of the 39 tribes are listed among the private donors.

Interesting comments in the benefits section of the story.

NACEA Executive Director Blake Wade said top business developers are working on plans to build new hotels, restaurants and retail space around the cultural center, provided the agency receives the money to finish construction.

“There is a network of developers ready to begin work, but they won’t do a thing if the cultural center and museum doesn’t go in there,” Wade said.

Interesting comments in the benefits section of the story.

NACEA Executive Director Blake Wade said top business developers are working on plans to build new hotels, restaurants and retail space around the cultural center, provided the agency receives the money to finish construction.

“There is a network of developers ready to begin work, but they won’t do a thing if the cultural center and museum doesn’t go in there,” Wade said.

those are the things that will provide some of the O +M for the center going into the future

The clean audit is surprising. That should win this project a good amount of credibility going forward.

Blake Wade has done a great job.

I have confidence in his ability to pull this all together and I credit them for holding out for more money to do this project right.


There is no reason this can't be done to the same standard as the Cowboy Hall, which I visited last month for the first time in ages. Was very impressed by it and the AICCM should be even better.

I think sometimes we confuse judgement with corruption. There were several decisions to be made and those in charge chose what they believed to be quality over low cost. In Oklahoma it seems like historically we tend to decide to be cheap. The outrage over cost overruns or for taking the more expensive options usually leads to the kinds of accusations we have seen on this board and elsewhere that the motivations are corruption, incompetence or stupidity. I am glad that the audit showed no impropriety. That still doesn't affirm that all the decisions were the best, but at least they appear to be honest. The more corruption we might uncover, the harder it gets going forward to get good public projects supported, especially statewide.

I hope the legislature understands the opportunity and provides funding. I think in 10 years we will all be wondering what the big deal was and why it was ever controversial.

I think sometimes we confuse judgement with corruption. There were several decisions to be made and those in charge chose what they believed to be quality over low cost. In Oklahoma it seems like historically we tend to decide to be cheap. The outrage over cost overruns or for taking the more expensive options usually leads to the kinds of accusations we have seen on this board and elsewhere that the motivations are corruption, incompetence or stupidity. I am glad that the audit showed no impropriety. That still doesn't affirm that all the decisions were the best, but at least they appear to be honest. The more corruption we might uncover, the harder it gets going forward to get good public projects supported, especially statewide.

I hope the legislature understands the opportunity and provides funding. I think in 10 years we will all be wondering what the big deal was and why it was ever controversial.

I know how please everybody is with the Devon tower and Colcord finishes. I (ignorantly -- I have no oversight on this project) bet that people would be just as happy with the quality in this project. If there's any bad judgement on it, it probably extends to the estimate of what the desired quality would cost and how it was made public.

I think sometimes we confuse judgement with corruption. There were several decisions to be made and those in charge chose what they believed to be quality over low cost. In Oklahoma it seems like historically we tend to decide to be cheap. The outrage over cost overruns or for taking the more expensive options usually leads to the kinds of accusations we have seen on this board and elsewhere that the motivations are corruption, incompetence or stupidity. I am glad that the audit showed no impropriety. That still doesn't affirm that all the decisions were the best, but at least they appear to be honest. The more corruption we might uncover, the harder it gets going forward to get good public projects supported, especially statewide.

I hope the legislature understands the opportunity and provides funding. I think in 10 years we will all be wondering what the big deal was and why it was ever controversial.

I remember when I was in high school, Channel 4 did an "exposé" of a multi-million dollar tourist center that was built along the freeway. They went in with cameras and showed how elaborate everything was, with marble floors and a giant wooden chandelier thing hanging from the ceiling, and they were showing how much money the state had "wasted" on the place where tourists come in, use the bathroom, and pick up a map. It was the main piece of news that night, and they'd been talking it up for a few days leading up to the story. Then whichever poor state employee got stuck talking to them took the wind out of their sails in his interview when he revealed that Texas had spent like 3 times that amount on their welcome centers. Another channel came along and did a follow up story where they showed our old welcome center, which basically looked like a run down convenience store where the door was like falling off.

People in Oklahoma are generally fairly frugal. That's part of why we didn't have a giant housing bust like other places. They really hate allegations of wasteful spending. But if you build something really nice and can convince them it's worth the money they'll be okay. The problem with the AICC is that nobody has really seen it other than as a big mound of dirt.

I'm not sure quite what to make out of this latest proposal by the state legislature.

Oklahoma measure transferring American Indian center advances | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-measure-transferring-american-indian-center-advances/article/3756790)

I think it's just ludicrous that this thing isn't being finished. A 10% fee associated with the collection of profits should have been charged to the NA Casinos all over the state when they first started popping up to help speed this thing along. The fact that the thing is gonna sit there and rot is just stupid.

Isn't that just as ludicrous a solution? What about the tribes that had very little interest or say in this center? This is being built for tourists more than anything else. The state just needs to suck it up and find the money for it. Hopefully tribes will make some donations, which has happened, but this should be voluntary for them, not forced.

The state needs to just finish the project. Scrapping it now would be penny wise and pound foolish. Apparently we've already spent like $60 million in state funds on this thing, might as well complete it. It could be a really cool addition to the city. The only thing that stopping spending now will do is guarantee that it fails.

I think it's just ludicrous that this thing isn't being finished. A 10% fee associated with the collection of profits should have been charged to the NA Casinos all over the state when they first started popping up to help speed this thing along. The fact that the thing is gonna sit there and rot is just stupid.

Hey, while I disagree with a lot of the casino development and related tribal politics in this state, I cannot blame them for this cultural center fiasco. They didn't want it, their contributions were mostly for public consumption, and in fact, from what I've read most of the tribes are interested in developing their own cultural centers in different areas of the state. This albatross was purely an Oklahoma City-centric tourist contrivance and a disaster from the word "go." And I see no reason why the state should put one more penny into it.

We need to repair the state capitol building before we do anything with the Indian Cultural Center.

Hey, while I disagree with a lot of the casino development and related tribal politics in this state, I cannot blame them for this cultural center fiasco. They didn't want it, their contributions were mostly for public consumption, and in fact, from what I've read most of the tribes are interested in developing their own cultural centers in different areas of the state. This albatross was purely an Oklahoma City-centric tourist contrivance and a disaster from the word "go." And I see no reason why the state should put one more penny into it.

While I agree that the State shouldn't be putting good money after bad, in fact it WAS wanted by the tribes. In fact the author of the the original bill was Tribal member & State Senator Haney. The original funding plan called for the cost to be shared equally among the State, Feds and Private Donations (Tribes). Only the State has come anywhere close to meeting their part of the bargain. Only the state has gone above and beyond trying to get this done (see the previous 3 bond issues). if not mistaken, it was the head of one of the larger tribes that helped pushed the concept thru. While individual tribes are also building local cultural centers focused on their particular tribe, the AICC is a "generic" cultural center where the individual tribes can be a part and direct folks to their own centers. Everyone wins.

Hey, while I disagree with a lot of the casino development and related tribal politics in this state, I cannot blame them for this cultural center fiasco. They didn't want it, their contributions were mostly for public consumption, and in fact, from what I've read most of the tribes are interested in developing their own cultural centers in different areas of the state. This albatross was purely an Oklahoma City-centric tourist contrivance and a disaster from the word "go." And I see no reason why the state should put one more penny into it.

Alright, well then lets grab some shovels and pick axes and go destroy the place and level it out, cause it's gonna look like crap sitting there unused? Get that point?


We need to repair the state capitol building before we do anything with the Indian Cultural Center.

No, we need to fix roads and bridges before we fix the capitol. Let's focus on the numbers first. How many Oklahomans use the roads vs. the State Capitol?



Question: How many annual visitors are there to the Western Heritage Museum? I only ask because whether it's a boon now to finish the AICCM out or not, does no one think that this place isn't going to attract annual visits?

While I agree that the State shouldn't be putting good money after bad, in fact it WAS wanted by the tribes. In fact the author of the the original bill was Tribal member & State Senator Haney. The original funding plan called for the cost to be shared equally among the State, Feds and Private Donations (Tribes). Only the State has come anywhere close to meeting their part of the bargain. Only the state has gone above and beyond trying to get this done (see the previous 3 bond issues). if not mistaken, it was the head of one of the larger tribes that helped pushed the concept thru. While individual tribes are also building local cultural centers focused on their particular tribe, the AICC is a "generic" cultural center where the individual tribes can be a part and direct folks to their own centers. Everyone wins.

I've yet to see evidence of support from a variety of tribes. Just because one tribe supported it does not mean others do. You realize they're not all the same tribe, right?

People are calling this an albatross among other things, but if its actually finished well I believe it will be one of the top draws in OKC and a great source of pride.

People are calling this an albatross among other things, but if its actually finished well I believe it will be one of the top draws in OKC and a great source of pride.

That's exactly what I was saying.

The Western Heritage Museum has had at least 10 million visitors in its 58 year existence, noted here:

National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum | TravelOK.com - Oklahoma's Official Travel & Tourism Site (http://www.travelok.com/listings/view.profile/id.5278)

I'm sure their entry rates have fluxed since 1955 but currently they are between $5.75 and $12.75. Only kids 3 and under are free. So assuming that 9 million of those visitors paid at least an average of 5.50 over the years, that's nearly 50 million dollars, if not more. How much has it cost the state with bonds to pay for how much construction has been done to date at the AICCM?

And how desirable was Oklahoma City from 1955 to 2005? I'm betting that 2006-2056 is going to bring more people to OKC than the previous period and even though now there is plenty to do, I don't see why this place can't be finished out. The synergy between different museums "go here. don't forget to go there" will be amazing.

Idk, thats just me going bat crazy on thought mode, lol.

That's exactly what I was saying.

The Western Heritage Museum has had at least 10 million visitors in its 58 year existence, noted here:

National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum | TravelOK.com - Oklahoma's Official Travel & Tourism Site (http://www.travelok.com/listings/view.profile/id.5278)

I'm sure their entry rates have fluxed since 1955 but currently they are between $5.75 and $12.75. Only kids 3 and under are free. So assuming that 9 million of those visitors paid at least an average of 5.50 over the years, that's nearly 50 million dollars, if not more. How much has it cost the state with bonds to pay for how much construction has been done to date at the AICCM?

And how desirable was Oklahoma City from 1955 to 2005? I'm betting that 2006-2056 is going to bring more people to OKC than the previous period and even though now there is plenty to do, I don't see why this place can't be finished out. The synergy between different museums "go here. don't forget to go there" will be amazing.

Idk, thats just me going bat crazy on thought mode, lol.

A better on-line tourist site for the state of Oklahoma is the: OKLAVISION.TV | Oklahoma's Travel, Culture & Tourism Online Network (http://www.oklavision.tv/#/home/placard/P2_OKV_CreativityForum2012)
This on-line tourist site is for the whole state, even though it is the Chickasaw Nation that funds it. On this site is a daily on-line broadcast which is filmed at the AICC in the one finished building - ironic.

A better on-line tourist site for the state of Oklahoma is the: OKLAVISION.TV | Oklahoma's Travel, Culture & Tourism Online Network (http://www.oklavision.tv/#/home/placard/P2_OKV_CreativityForum2012)
This on-line tourist site is for the whole state, even though it is the Chickasaw Nation that funds it. On this site is a daily on-line broadcast which is filmed at the AICC in the one finished building - ironic.

See the fat people thread...for future use because people won't go out because things are available online, lol.

I've yet to see evidence of support from a variety of tribes. Just because one tribe supported it does not mean others do. You realize they're not all the same tribe, right?
I know you are being facetious/sarcastic, but yes there was widespread support by many tribes (at least in words, if not resources)



That's exactly what I was saying.

The Western Heritage Museum has had at least 10 million visitors in its 58 year existence, noted here:

National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum | TravelOK.com - Oklahoma's Official Travel & Tourism Site (http://www.travelok.com/listings/view.profile/id.5278)

I'm sure their entry rates have fluxed since 1955 but currently they are between $5.75 and $12.75. Only kids 3 and under are free. So assuming that 9 million of those visitors paid at least an average of 5.50 over the years, that's nearly 50 million dollars, if not more. How much has it cost the state with bonds to pay for how much construction has been done to date at the AICCM? ...
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-measure-transferring-american-indian-center-advances/article/3756790
$63 million in the 3 various bond issues (plus whatever it is costing to secure the place when construction stopped).

You might be interested in this post back a page or two

No, that creates a long term debt and financial obligation. Unless of course you believe the projection that this place will generate $500,000 a day in new revenue as the promoters promised. This center will never cover the cost it will take to finish it. They probably won't even be able to cover the operational cost of keeping the doors open. All that money will need to be picked up by the taxpayers and Oklahoma has a lot more important things to spend the money on. This whole project falls under the heading of - we need to spend our resources a lot more wisely than we have been doing.

Honestley - why anyone believed that this place would generate $520,547.94 in new revenue every day for the next 20 years is beyond me. If it could do that private investors would be lined up around the block trying to get a piece of the action.

10,000,000 visitors as compared to say the Western Heritage Museum but compacted into a 20 year span...that's a $380 ticket! Lol

How much would it cost to implode the structure and bulldoze the area?

Maybe too early to say it's dead, but Post #5 from Pete was pretty close:


I am the most positive guy around but I've said from Day 1 that this project was way too ambiguous in every way: time lines, purpose, direction, and funding.

Seems like they should have only started the phases where the money was certain, rather than digging a massive hole then going to the state and asking to be given $50 million.


Unless something radical changes in the way this whole project has been handled, I don't see it ever approaching what has been promised.

That being said, it needs to be finished. A bond issue would be the best way to finance it, (rates won't always be this low) or use some of the revenue that is earmarked to be added to the rainy day fund. Just get it done.

How much would it cost to implode the structure and bulldoze the area?

It is never too late to say mistakes were made and call it quits - which is exactly what they should. They could fnish it for free and the income generated still won't even pay for the operating costs. Just give the land back to the City. Then they can start an investigation into who came up with the crazy-*** income prediction and sue the crap out of them to get some of the money back.


...and then retain those lawers so we can sue the income generation prediction for the new convention center when that time comes. Does anyone else ever get tired of constantly be lied to by people pushing a pet project?

In terms of quality and obsolescence, how do we know that this isn't the newest incarnation of the Oklahoma county jail? How do we even know that it will work?

You'll recall that the jail was supposed to be the latest and greatest, but when it was opened and occupied, it was clear that it was a terrible building, both operationally and structurally. I'll never know why we didn't insist upon peer review by outside architects and engineers.

Everything else has gone wrong with this center. Why would we believe that the building even works?

Let's just do away with all museums and cultural centers. They aren't good business and they cater to special interest groups. We don't need tourists either. We Okies don't need any of these fancy and unnecessary things. Rather than create something unique and special, let's just walk away and bury the money we have in it.

Let's just do away with all museums and cultural centers. They aren't good business and they cater to special interest groups. We don't need tourists either. We Okies don't need any of these fancy and unnecessary things. Rather than create something unique and special, let's just walk away and bury the money we have in it. Let's just put two double-wides together and call it a cultural center.

Point taken...twice.

I think this would be a good addition if they would just finish it and do the capitol as well. Combine them into one project and be done with it. Anything else after this, we use this as a lesson. Do things better the right way around the second time. But, we are this far into it(I think this was their plane to begin with. They probably knew this was unrealistic and built as much as they could and then when they ran out of funds, say "well we've gone this far, there is no reason to stop now) None the less, I still think they should just do it and get it over with.

There goes Rover again off the deep end. No one is saying do away with all museums. Heck, they don't even have to cover operating costs and I would even support all publically funded museums being free at least 1 day a week, but this facility has far exceeded what is reasonable and it will take an additional $40 million of the public's money just to finish it (it probably shouldn’t have cost $40 million total to begin with). Sometime things just cost too much.

How about doing away with the worthless streetcar and putting the money into this project and the convention center hotel? Money works out just right and JTF won't have to worry about "we" doing anything.

The streetcar produces more money in new development than it cost to build. The return is something like 15:1. It has been proven in multiple cities. So anyhow, thanks for playing.

Dumb@ss legislators got us into this mess, dumb@ss legislators need to figure a way to get us out and doing nothing shouldn't be an option.

The streetcar produces more money in new development than it cost to build. The return is something like 15:1. It has been proven in multiple cities. So anyhow, thanks for playing.

Yeah. If you count new towers being built and things in midtown that were going to get built anyway disingenuous people might get to that number and you would be the first to get to 15 times that number in the calculations.

There goes Rover again off the deep end. No one is saying do away with all museums. Heck, they don't even have to cover operating costs and I would even support all publically funded museums being free at least 1 day a week, but this facility has far exceeded what is reasonable and it will take an additional $40 million of the public's money just to finish it (it probably shouldn’t have cost $40 million total to begin with). Sometime things just cost too much.

Deep end. Lol. That means I don't buy into the anti business anti cultural norm that is now Oklahoma. We want creative class but don't value history or culture. We want on the cheap. And we can't understand why the rest of the country considers us a cultural wasteland. They only have to read these boards.

The streetcar produces more money in new development than it cost to build. The return is something like 15:1. It has been proven in multiple cities. So anyhow, thanks for playing.

Creative accounting.

Dumb@ss legislators got us into this mess, dumb@ss legislators need to figure a way to get us out and doing nothing shouldn't be an option.

Supposedly the largest portion of the money spent so far was to decontaminate the site. There are now 250 acres of clean prime riverfront real estate with fill dirt on site. I think the city valued the land at $5 million when they donated it. This land is probably worth at least $100 million now – if not 2X that. The state and city need to put it on the market. The City gets the first $5 million to recoup their investment, the state gets the next $80 million to recoup their cost, the next share goes to payback any donors who want a refund, and if anything else is left it goes to the City and State 50-50. Then this land goes back on the tax rolls.

Supposedly the largest portion of the money spent so far was to decontaminate the site. There are now 250 acres of clean prime riverfront real estate with fill dirt on site. I think the city valued the land at $5 million when they donated it. This land is probably worth at least $100 million now – if not 2X that. The state and city need to put it on the market. The City gets the first $5 million to recoup their investment, the state gets the next $80 million to recoup their cost, the next share goes to payback any donors who want a refund, and if anything else is left it goes to the City and State 50-50. Then this land goes back on the tax rolls.

Beyond creative accounting.

Beyond creative accounting.

Where do you think the math went wrong? If you use the Cotton Seed land as an indicator that would place the value of this site just short of $700 million. I'm saying it worth a max $200 million. Do you think I low balled it too much?

You can fantasize all you want to try to make a point, but there is no way anyone pays anywhere near $100-200 million for that land...nor will the cotton mill get their asking even though it is near downtown, has great access and is adjacent to a hot development area, not to mention entertainment center.

That is why I cut the price by 70%. What do you think the land is worth? It is 250 contiguous urban acres with river, rail, and access to 2 interstates. 5 cotton mills sites could fit in it.

Oh, I don't know. The air park sold for $7.2 million and the cotton mill site has no interested parties....you figure it out.

That is why I cut the price by 70%. What do you think the land is worth? It is 250 contiguous urban acres with river, rail, and access to 2 interstates. 5 cotton mills sites could fit in it.

There's too much available land nearby. That property might be worth a whole lot in 25 years, but there's a lot of empty land on the river and nobody is building.

Oh, I don't know. The air park sold for $7.2 million and the cotton mill site has no interested parties....you figure it out.

Even at the low price of contimated land at the airpark that would still make AICC land worth nearly $23 million. I still say start selling it off.

There goes Rover again off the deep end. No one is saying do away with all museums. Heck, they don't even have to cover operating costs and I would even support all publically funded museums being free at least 1 day a week, but this facility has far exceeded what is reasonable and it will take an additional $40 million of the public's money just to finish it (it probably shouldn’t have cost $40 million total to begin with). Sometime things just cost too much.

"Big league cities" spend much more on projects like this all the time.

"Big league cities" spend much more on projects like this all the time.

It's a state project. Is Oklahoma a 'big league state'?

It could be. But not when there are narrow minded people in key positions. Tea Partiers don't believe in growth or investment, only in tax slashing. Money is at historically low rates, capital is available, the state has capital needs, and they still can't act.

It will be a long time before this will be valuable land.

Where do you think the math went wrong? If you use the Cotton Seed land as an indicator that would place the value of this site just short of $700 million. I'm saying it worth a max $200 million. Do you think I low balled it too much?

$200 mil..? Ha, that's funny.

It could be. But not when there are narrow minded people in key positions. Tea Partiers don't believe in growth or investment, only in tax slashing. Money is at historically low rates, capital is available, the state has capital needs, and they still can't act.

"Like"

It could be. But not when there are narrow minded people in key positions. Tea Partiers don't believe in growth or investment, only in tax slashing. Money is at historically low rates, capital is available, the state has capital needs, and they still can't act.

"Tea Partiers" believe in less government and letting the private sector do most of the work. This project is a perfect example of the government deciding that something should be built that recognizes a specific group (native Americans), but not having their support, construction funds or a management team.

Call me "narrow-minded" if you like, but those facts are irrefutable, and are why this deal is dead.

I'm not sure if this is a model for anything, but I live in St. Louis and in this region, residents of St. Louis city and St. Louis County pay a "culture tax." I want to say it's half-a percent. The zoo, art museum, history museum, science center and botanical garden are free (show a drivers license, ID, phone bill etc) to residents of the city and county. These are all world-class institutions, much better than we probably deserve based on our current population. Money also goes to the symphony and muny opera.
Out of town visitors pay an ordinary fee, probably similar to OKC cultural institutions.

OK my bad, just did a little looking around and these institutions are actually free-to-all, not just area residents. I thought otherwise but it's been a little while since I've visited with anybody from outside STL.

OKC pays a dedicated Zoo tax, and still have to pay to enter. Any idea how much revenue the 'culture tax' collects?

$72 million in 2008.

(It's official name is the Zoo-Museum District)

I must say that as the region has sprawled, there has been controversy as outlying counties that used to be rural and are now suburban have not opted-in.

I'm so confused by the notion that this is a responsibility of Native Americans.

Should a space museum be paid for by Astronauts? Zoos should be paid for by selling zebra pelts? History of air travel museum funded by pilots everywhere?

This is a public structure. Not a tribal office. The subject matter shouldn't implicate a group of people to necessarily fund the project -- at least not substantially.

Now if the Tribes want to pay, then of course that'd be a good thing. But this isn't a project for the Tribes. This is a project for the human race. Everyone benefits.


It's much easier to discuss building museums when you ignore the subject matter. Focus on funding, revenue, management, etc. People get all caught up in the subject matter. Butterflies, Native Americans, Bibles, whatever.

Amen.