Teehee. Although I do agree that Mr. Stair has been working pretty hard on getting this done, he certainly does deserve a lot of credit for what the Northern Flyer Alliance has been able to accomplish. I hope he's able to continue enjoying that success as we move forward.

Anymore news on this amtrak to kansas? is it still in the works or scrapped?

So...are we gonna continue to squabble with each other or is there a person out there who knows the answer to the original question.

As previously noted, Evan Stair is the man who has made the FLYER extension effort happen.

His contact information is available at the Passenger Rail Oklahoma website:

passengerrailok.org

If you want to talk to the source, contact him.

If you want ODOT's view, reach Rail Programs Office at 521-2771. Ask for Joe Kyle or John Dougherty.

TOM ELMORE

hello okc comunity

Hi! Welcome to OKCTalk! Hopefully you'll find this place friendly and interesting enough. If you have any questions just shoot a personal message to one of the regular or moderators around here. You'll find most people here are happy to be of help.

And I read...............


Transportation official: Amtrak expansion to Kansas appears likely
Journal Record
September 17, 2008

OKLAHOMA CITY – An Amtrak route expansion between Oklahoma and Kansas appears likely as the railroad operator and the Kansas Legislature move forward with a joint feasibility study this month, an Oklahoma Department of Transportation spokesman said Tuesday.

“Kansas is taking the lead, and this is what we’ve been waiting for them to do,” said John Dougherty, Transportation Department rail programs assistant division manager, at a special Oklahoma City Council meeting. “They’ve been not legally able to spend state dollars on rail passenger service before, so this is a very positive step,” he said. “There’s been a lot of noise and concerns and interest from their citizens to their state leaders that they want these options.”

The same has been true in Oklahoma as well. In July, Edmond city officials passed a resolution in support of an expansion of the existing Heartland Flyer service between Oklahoma City and Fort Worth, Texas, north to Kansas City, Mo., by way of Newton, Kan. The governments of those cities have already expressed support for the plan, as have Norman, Oklahoma City and several other communities.

While automobile fuel prices have remained above $3 per gallon, interest in alternative transportation has increased. The number of riders on the Heartland Flyer between Oklahoma City and Fort Worth increased 17 percent for the 10 months ended July 31, Amtrak officials recently reported. Daily passengers for the 10 months totaled 67,141, up from 57,327 passengers for the same period in 2007.

Amtrak began offering Heartland Flyer service in June 1999, following a 20-year lapse in passenger rail service for Oklahomans. Oklahoma and Texas share the cost of operating the line, contributing about $2 million each annually.Supporters of the expansion would see the line continued through Guthrie, Perry and Ponca City, and into Kansas through Arkansas City and then Wichita and Newton.

The proposed line would connect there with an existing Amtrak route to Kansas City.The extension would almost double the route’s length, so the total operating cost would increase by another $4 million annually, Dougherty said. That figure does not include startup costs.“That’s going to cost a lot of money, and you’re going to have to spend some money just to see if you can do it,” Dougherty said of the Kansas study that begins this month.

Officials estimate the study will be finished in six to nine months, after which it will be submitted to legislators for consideration. If funding is approved by the Kansas Legislature in the following session, a new Amtrak route on existing freight rails and new passenger depots could begin operating as early as 2010, Dougherty said.

Kansas officials are beginning work on a new 10-year transportation plan to replace that state’s current plan that expires in 2009.“They are in the same boat we were 10 years ago when we found out we would be getting rail passenger service with some help from federal dollars,” Dougherty said. “What’s tough for them is that there’s not a lot of money out there to start up. That money is going to have to come out of their highway budgets, out of their roads and bridges.”But any investment in passenger rail is offset slightly by decreased pollution and automobile traffic wear on roads, he said. “With the capacity problems the turnpike has today, they actually could save adding a third lane.” “We feel real positive that this is going to end up with an extension,” Dougherty said. “Now, what extension and when is unknown. It’s just the next logical step.”

Good to see this moving forward. I can see it being really good for Guthrie, especially.

I've always hoped that route would reopen. Kansas City is one of the cities where it's relatively easy to navigate without a car, and it's a fun place to visit. Going up there on the train is really appealing.

What's the parking situation at the Amtrak station? Is there any long term parking? I assume you have to buy your tickets on-line or is there a walkup counter?

What's the parking situation at the Amtrak station? Is there any long term parking? I assume you have to buy your tickets on-line or is there a walkup counter?

No LT parking that I've noticed at the station. I'm uncertain if there is a local ticket counter. I think it's still online or telephone based at this time

I think the Santa Fe garage is for long term parking.

Any idear when downtown will get a rental car agency?

Also, any idea when the Amtrak Station will be staffed?????? A restaurant inside would be nice (somehting different THOUGH!!).

Any idear when downtown will get a rental car agency?

15th and Broadway.

It would be huge for Guthrie, considering the depot is right in the downtown area. Visitors could walk around and see all the famous buildings, it would be great.

Is there a train museum at the depot. My son and I drove up there a few years ago and wondered in there. We left about an hour later with a lot of knowledge of trains past and present taught to us by the guy who runs the place. I can only imagine how excited he must be right now.

I think the Santa Fe garage is for long term parking.

Any idear when downtown will get a rental car agency?

Also, any idea when the Amtrak Station will be staffed?????? A restaurant inside would be nice (somehting different THOUGH!!).

HOTROD, I agree the CBD does need a car rental agency. There is an Enterprise Rent a Car on Broadway around 17th is the closest one I believe.

Is there a train museum at the depot. My son and I drove up there a few years ago and wondered in there. We left about an hour later with a lot of knowledge of trains past and present taught to us by the guy who runs the place. I can only imagine how excited he must be right now.

Yes there is. Guthrie is one of the best small towns in America.

Oklahoma State Senate has introduced a joint resolution proclaiming Oklahoma's support for the State of Kansas, the Kansas Department of Transportation, and the National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) for their participation with the Amtrak feasibility study requested by the Kansas Department of Transportation on February 11, 2008; and directing distribution.

THAT the Oklahoma Legislature urges the Oklahoma Department of Transportation to jointly participate with the Kansas Department of Transportation in the expanded passenger rail service study as a part of a new passenger rail transportation corridor between the points of Kansas City and Fort Worth, Texas.

read the full resolution here (http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/2009-10SB/SJR35_int.rtf)

Sounds like a good thing to me. Now, if they'll just act on it.

Not to get political, but the stimulus package, whether you like it or not, will increase the chances of this happening. Anyway, I came across this article published a couple weeks ago about the project. The cities in Oklahoma that could be included in this are: Ponca City, Perry, Guthrie, Edmond, Oklahoma City, Norman, Purcell, Pauls Valley, Davis and Ardmore.

Full article below.

City in quest for passenger rail

Mark Schlachtenhaufen
The Edmond Sun

EDMOND — Edmond is one of the more active participants among cities pursuing inclusion along a potential 606-mile corridor that would connect to the national rail system, City Council members heard Monday.

The city is mulling the possibility of building a rail depot in the downtown area on city-owned land south of Second Street, east of the railroad tracks.

During the workshop, council members discussed using a potential downtown depot as a hub for rail, bus and trolley service. They said passenger rail could draw tourists or commuters to downtown businesses and spur economic and housing development.

Edmond is part of an Amtrak expansion feasibility study sponsored by the Kansas Department of Transportation in cooperation with the Oklahoma and Texas departments of transportation.

Previously, officials announced that 13 cities in Kansas and four in Oklahoma expressed interest in being in the study for the portion between Kansas City and Oklahoma City.

Cities in Kansas included in the study are Lawrence, Topeka, Emporia, Strong City, Newton, Wichita and Winfield-Arkansas City.

Oklahoma cities included are Ponca City, Perry, Guthrie, Edmond, Oklahoma City, Norman, Purcell, Pauls Valley, Davis and Ardmore.

Gainesville is the lone Texas city included.

Evan Stair, vice president of the NorthernFlyer Alliance, said potential scenarios include a night-time round-trip between Newton, Kan., and Oklahoma City, a night-time round trip between Kansas City and Fort Worth, a daytime round-trip between Kansas City and Fort Worth and a daytime round-trip between Kansas City and Oklahoma City.

Stair said with a population nearing 80,000, Edmond would be one of the larger cities with a stop. Edmond, which has held several workshops related to the study, is “on top of things,” he said.

“I don’t see a problem with Edmond having a stop, but that’s my opinion,” Stair said.

Stair said he envisions an 8 a.m. departure from Kansas City and a 8 a.m. departure from Fort Worth. Stair said the trains would arrive in the opposite city at about 10 p.m., a schedule that would be good for Edmond.

Mayor Dan O’Neil said Edmond wants at least a depot with a platform for arrivals and departures. Size of the platform would depend on whether or not bus or trolley routes include the potential downtown depot.

Stair said Norman spent about $250,000 and received matching federal funds to upgrade the existing platform at its depot.

Stair said the study report, which probably will be completed later this year, will be available to the public. States would have to pay their shares of the operating costs that exceed ticket revenues and the costs of buying trains and improving tracks, sidings and crossings.

If eventually the state Legislature decides to support expanded passenger rail service, city leaders likely would seek federal matching funds, Stair said.

Bob Kemper, legislative director for the Northern Flyer Alliance, said Oklahoma’s transportation department is seeking about $28 million from any economic stimulus plan passed by Congress.

During his presentation, Stair described rail-related legislation passed by Congress.

President George W. Bush has signed the $13 billion Federal Railroad Safety Improvement Act, passed by the House in September. The bill provides $1.9 billion — $380 million per year — for grants to states to pay for capital costs of facilities and equipment needed to provide new or improved passenger rail. The federal share of the grant is up to 80 percent.

In September, the Federal Railroad Administration announced it had awarded 15 grants distributing $30 million in 50-50 matching grant funds made available in 2008 legislation.

Wayne Page, City Council member for Ward 1, said with high gas prices likely in the future and all of the talk about transportation, expanding passenger rail service is a timely topic.

Other issues discussed during the workshop included the possibility of building a second railroad track to run alongside Edmond’s existing track, which is owned by the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway. A second track would improve passenger service and reduce vehicle congestion.

Progress toward regional transit dialogue also was discussed during the workshop. Being included in the Amtrak study is not a guarantee to get a rail stop, officials have said.

Fourteen states support Amtrak trains that supplement the national network, according to information provided by the City Council. State and regional agencies pay most of the cost, reimbursing Amtrak for direct expenses.

link (http://www.edmondsun.com/local/local_story_013234051.html)

I love riding the train. A few years back, I took the heartland flyer to Ft. Worth, caught Amtrak in Ft. Worth and took the train all the way to Providence, RI to visit my sister who lived in South Dartmouth, MA. We took the Oscela Express (a nice train) from Providence to NYC and hung out for a couple of days. It was a blast. Granted the trip out took about 2 1/2 days due to all the stops and layovers, but you really get an appreciation for America when seeing it from a train. Plus, I am a travel freak and absolutely feel ripped off when I fly...due to the fact that I miss so much great scenery.

Something else that is really fun is to hop on the heartland and take it to Ft. Worth to catch a show at Billy Bob's. It is about a 4 to 4.5 hour trip and you can partake in all the libations you wish without having to worry about a designated driver.

Haha, just don't be like me and enjoy *too* many libations...then by the time you get to Ft. Worth you don't even realize it!


I love riding the train. A few years back, I took the heartland flyer to Ft. Worth, caught Amtrak in Ft. Worth and took the train all the way to Providence, RI to visit my sister who lived in South Dartmouth, MA. We took the Oscela Express (a nice train) from Providence to NYC and hung out for a couple of days. It was a blast. Granted the trip out took about 2 1/2 days due to all the stops and layovers, but you really get an appreciation for America when seeing it from a train. Plus, I am a travel freak and absolutely feel ripped off when I fly...due to the fact that I miss so much great scenery.

Something else that is really fun is to hop on the heartland and take it to Ft. Worth to catch a show at Billy Bob's. It is about a 4 to 4.5 hour trip and you can partake in all the libations you wish without having to worry about a designated driver.

Question to anyone that might know: Does KS have any interest in extending the Amtrak further? I was looking at the map and I would thing it would be a great if they would entend it from Newton, KS to Holdrege, NE that way people could take the train all the way from OKC to Denver without having to go through Los Angeles and back.

(I have posted this before somewhere else.)

IMO the Edmond Station would be so much better if it was here:

Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=107022609557984163662.00000112dd8116b57abd1&ll=35.657035,-97.477827&spn=0.01543,0.032959&t=h&z=16)

This would provide a great physical and visual connection with UCO. The City of Edmond just completed a streetscape of Campbell and at the end of the street is the clock tower of Old North. How cool would it be to have a train station clock tower on the opposite ends of the street?

This location could also continue to enhance DT Edmond as a walkable, dense city center.

That's really the only area it could go without going to danforth. Without being sandwiched in, of course. I think it would also be the best location visually for people to experience who are passing thru. Unless it was just a platform with no parking, which I would not be in favor of. Its also got to be big enough to act as a station for our local rail service as well, so it definitely would be best to have as much room as possible for park n ride.

That is a pretty darn good idea Cuatro. I wonder who owns that land - it sounds like Edmond was taking the easy/cheap way out by planning on using land the city already owns. But it is good to know they are being proactive in planning for Amtrak's eventual arrival.

Question to anyone that might know: Does KS have any interest in extending the Amtrak further? I was looking at the map and I would thing it would be a great if they would entend it from Newton, KS to Holdrege, NE that way people could take the train all the way from OKC to Denver without having to go through Los Angeles and back.

You don't have to go to LA. From KC, if memory serves, you can go east a bit to Galesburg and there you can catch the train coming out of Chicago to Denver.

Once expanded, from newton you can also go west on the SW Chief to La Junta and then hire transport into Denver. not sure what for hire options exist in La Junta, but it's beautiful countty to travel in.

when i used to go on the train to new york and LA we drove up to catch the train in newton.

You don't have to go to LA. From KC, if memory serves, you can go east a bit to Galesburg and there you can catch the train coming out of Chicago to Denver.

Once expanded, from newton you can also go west on the SW Chief to La Junta and then hire transport into Denver. not sure what for hire options exist in La Junta, but it's beautiful countty to travel in.

Didn't even see that route, good point. I wonder if trains will be become more popular to ride on if gas skyrockets again and they can expand the tracks so it doesn't take two days to get there. If you went straight up and connected at Holdrege, I would think it would take a day at the most to get there. But I guess that is part of the fun of the train, taking a couple of days to see the sights and not have to worry about driving.

Didn't even see that route, good point. I wonder if trains will be become more popular to ride on if gas skyrockets again and they can expand the tracks so it doesn't take two days to get there. If you went straight up and connected at Holdrege, I would think it would take a day at the most to get there. But I guess that is part of the fun of the train, taking a couple of days to see the sights and not have to worry about driving.

Not to mention that I just got on BNSF's website and read they have a project going on in Missouri where they are replacing old ties and laying new track down on a 30 mile stretch of current road that will cost them $12.75 million. That's $450,000 per mile.

It would cost a lot of money to lay additional trackage down between sidings on a line that's not heavy in freight in the first place just so a cross country passenger train could get to it's destination faster. Not something that either the primary railroad carrier or Amtrak would probably be willing to spend the money on.

Most of your heavier freight lines, such as BNSF's LA to Chicago transcon, already have double trackage, so there's no issue there--even though freight traffic is already at a high extreme. A line from Newton, KS to Holdrege, NE would have to be revitalized just like that 30 mile spurt in Missouri. There's probably a good chance that the line you're talking about in Kansas is jointed rail, which means slower travel. Amtrak usually takes routes that are CWR (continuous welded rail) because it allows for much higher speeds. This is the reason that the study goes north through Kansas and not thinking about taking the route between Oklahoma City and Tulsa. That line is state owned and jointed rail. Plus there's so many curves in that line that they'd have to straighten it out just so Amtrak could maintain a minimum speed of 50 MPH (considering a majority of their sets run at 70 MPH or greater).

I fully understand your opinion because it would cut at least 750 miles off the route of going to Denver from OKC as through Galesburg, IL and to me, that makes more sense--just costly sense.

As Kansas takes reins on Oklahoma/Kansas passenger rail line, Oklahoma waits to see results | OKG Scene.com (http://www.okgazette.com/p/12776/a/4420/Default.aspx?ReturnUrl=LwBEAGUAZgBhAHUAbAB0AC4AYQB zAHAAeAAslashAHAAPQAxADIANwAyADkA)