^

The Oklahoman and the Boathouse Foundation have a financial arrangement, which is the main reason they are always promoting it in their stories and why they don't delve into the large and seemingly never-ending public subsidies.

Why do you think the subsidies are still necessary to such a large extent there? I know the COO pretty well and would love to get his take on it some time. The organization brings a ton of outdoor recreational value that was never really present in OKC before it existed(something I’ve come to really appreciate since moving to Tulsa), so I think keeping the organization going is absolutely in the city’s best interest but you’d think it could at least come closer to breaking even by now. I feel like they could also do quite a bit to expand their programs at overhulser/stichcomb and Hefner and probably a bunch of other stuff they could do to drive more revenue but everything does always feel fairly crowded in season.

It's hard to imagine how it will ever generate enough revenue to offset its ongoing expenses, let alone come close to recouping any of the tens of millions in public investment.

It is definitely an asset to the city and I am not advocating we completely cut them off, but they keep coming back for more and more, each time promising that whatever new thing they want to do on the taxpayer's dime will THIS time add profitability.

Unless it's a very nice summer weekend day, there is almost no one down there apart from the rowing teams. I doubt many posters here go down there on a regular basis, if at all.

It is what it is, I would just like to see more honesty and transparency especially when they are asking for yet another public handout.

Not sure if this deserves its own article, but apparently there's a "smashcade" now on the second floor of the whitewater center (didn't even know there was a second floor).

https://twitter.com/Jelloicy_/status/1529101388667658243

Linked in tweet:
https://www.visitokc.com/articles/post/smashcade-esports-arcade-now-open-in-the-boathouse-district/

Not sure if this deserves its own article, but apparently there's a "smashcade" now on the second floor of the whitewater center (didn't even know there was a second floor).

https://twitter.com/Jelloicy_/status/1529101388667658243

Linked in tweet:
https://www.visitokc.com/articles/post/smashcade-esports-arcade-now-open-in-the-boathouse-district/

So it's basically a gaming-focused cyber cafe? I didn't know those were coming back into style. Interesting.

"eSports" training center maybe?

Not sure if this deserves its own article, but apparently there's a "smashcade" now on the second floor of the whitewater center (didn't even know there was a second floor).

https://twitter.com/Jelloicy_/status/1529101388667658243

Linked in tweet:
https://www.visitokc.com/articles/post/smashcade-esports-arcade-now-open-in-the-boathouse-district/

The second floor got scaled back, initially just constructed as unfinished space due to costs of the rest of the MAPS river projects.

Not sure if this deserves its own article, but apparently there's a "smashcade" now on the second floor of the whitewater center (didn't even know there was a second floor).

https://twitter.com/Jelloicy_/status/1529101388667658243

Linked in tweet:
https://www.visitokc.com/articles/post/smashcade-esports-arcade-now-open-in-the-boathouse-district/

Cool idea. Anything they can do to add stuff like this and other activities/revenue streams will only help draw people down there more often and offset budget issues.

It's hard to imagine how it will ever generate enough revenue to offset its ongoing expenses, let alone come close to recouping any of the tens of millions in public investment.

It is definitely an asset to the city and I am not advocating we completely cut them off, but they keep coming back for more and more, each time promising that whatever new thing they want to do on the taxpayer's dime will THIS time add profitability.

Unless it's a very nice summer weekend day, there is almost no one down there apart from the rowing teams. I doubt many posters here go down there on a regular basis, if at all.

It is what it is, I would just like to see more honesty and transparency especially when they are asking for yet another public handout.

That's all pretty fair. I know they do a lot of it down there as is, but if they could add more corporate type events/outings or events in general, it might help draw more sponsorships that could offset those costs. Seems like corporate sponsorships would probably be the only revenue source large enough to meaningfully reduce the city's financial involvement outside of an endowment of some kind.

IMO there needs to be an organic constituency, since it's just not on the way to anywhere hardly... which is where a hotel or apartments come into play (even if just an "athlete's village" type of setup), though I realize room for such things in the area is running out... hoping a bridge from Okana helps back and forth traffic. Not sure Bar K will help any since people will drive in and out.

That's all pretty fair. I know they do a lot of it down there as is, but if they could add more corporate type events/outings or events in general, it might help draw more sponsorships that could offset those costs. Seems like corporate sponsorships would probably be the only revenue source large enough to meaningfully reduce the city's financial involvement outside of an endowment of some kind.

When everything was originally set up, Aubrey McClendon used a ton of Chesapeake money to offset the inevitable losses. He also had CHK employees maintain all the landscaping and other things. All this was done quietly and out of the public and shareholders view. I know all this because I interviewed people who worked there during this time.

The support ended not when Aubrey died, but when he was thrown out at Chesapeake.

Since that time, they have been trying to fill that big monetary hole and the city and taxpayers are the ones left with the tab.

There is no turning back now, but I'm not sure the best plan is to keep giving them millions for yet more projects that keep losing money.

Cool idea. Anything they can do to add stuff like this and other activities/revenue streams will only help draw people down there more often and offset budget issues.

I don't go there often because I'm just not into the types of activities offered but I have been there a couple of times in the last few years for events that I really enjoyed. One was an event hosted by the Lyric theater to promote their production of Mama Mia. The other was a beer tasting event with a multitude of local brewers participating. Both were very enjoyable with large crowds.

IMO there needs to be an organic constituency, since it's just not on the way to anywhere hardly... which is where a hotel or apartments come into play (even if just an "athlete's village" type of setup), though I realize room for such things in the area is running out... hoping a bridge from Okana helps back and forth traffic. Not sure Bar K will help any since people will drive in and out.

I've been to the Kansas City's BarK which is located in a pretty remote area of the city as well. It was a Tuesday afternoon, and I could count 200 cars on the parking lot. I think BarK can help the Boathouse District immensely, but that smell is horrible, I left 15 minutes after.

I think it would help to have better signage/advertising. Aside from the Riversports and the zip line thing, I have no idea what's public and private there.

It's hard to imagine how it will ever generate enough revenue to offset its ongoing expenses, let alone come close to recouping any of the tens of millions in public investment.

It is definitely an asset to the city and I am not advocating we completely cut them off, but they keep coming back for more and more, each time promising that whatever new thing they want to do on the taxpayer's dime will THIS time add profitability.

Unless it's a very nice summer weekend day, there is almost no one down there apart from the rowing teams. I doubt many posters here go down there on a regular basis, if at all.

It is what it is, I would just like to see more honesty and transparency especially when they are asking for yet another public handout.

I have had a season membership since 2017. I love(d) the whitewater rapids facility. Until Covid, each trip involved 3-4 laps, 2 times around the olympic track, and 1-2 times around the recreational track.

The recreational track is superior to the olympic track.

Since Covid, the recreational track has been closed. It's been used exclusively for tubing. Tubing is fine...it's a nice asset, but going around the recreational track in a raft > in a tube. The main reason it has been closed has been the reliance on international guides, who could not come over in 2020 and only started to return late in the summer of 2021. They may be back this year, but the problem is the tubing has become such a commodity that they may not every go back to the full rafting experience. Which limits my desire to support it.

Which is a shame, because I think it is, and definitely was, one of the best experiences one can have in OKC. It's different. It's superior to natural rafting in many ways, because natural rafting a) takes much longer and b) is limited by the frequency of rapids. Most of the times I'd go rafting, 1-2 twice a week, I'd always meet people from out of state, saying how much they loved it. So, on the one hand I've been frustrated with some of the criticism of it, because independent of its cost, it was and should be a draw, and Oklahomans should support it, or should have supported it, more for their own enjoyment. I just can't imagine people aged 15-50 not liking it and wanting to go back when it was used in its 2016-2019 hey day. But there are so many people here who don't know it exists and haven't been, even though it's been here for 6 years.

When the facility was taking people on a ~ 40-45 minute trip, where you take 4 laps, 2 per each track, it was awesome. It was something the city should be proud of. But since Covid, it's become a half measure. The trip is now usually 2 laps, around the same track...at about 20 minutes. It's not the same value for people who buy the single day experience. As a season ticket holder, sure, I could take 6 rides a day if I wanted to, but it's still...not as fun, because half the facility is used for tubing.

So it's in this precarious position of...X amount of people here don't like it because of it runs in the red financially, and Y amount of people are frustrated with its rafting vs. tubing tension. BarK also represents this half measure tension...I would LOVE to take my dogs to BarK. I would also love to go rafting at the same time. from what I understand, BarK doesn't offer any doggie supervision, not even like that place in Chisolm Creek that serves burgers and hot dogs and you can go inside and eat while some of the personnel play with your dogs outside. So I can navigate down to the Boathouse district (which doesn't have the best access) to take my dogs to BarK, OR I can navigate there and go rafting...but I can't do both at the same time. So I guess if BarK becomes a draw, and people go "oh, that whitewater facility looks cool, let's do that!," they can't during that trip because they can't leave their dogs there and raft. If I could go to BarK and leave my dogs there for 40 minutes at a time for (hopefully) a good rafting trip, I'd be there just about every Saturday and Sunday, all day. I'm not alone in that. Heck, even with the mediocre rafting now...it would incentivize me to keep my membership. But now...I just don't know the point to go to BarK unless its late fall through early Spring.

And I don't know what the solution is other than...no one wants to hear it...probably financial investment to return the facility to full measures. A third, much smaller, but focused track for tubing. With a lazy river around it. Build it so it has rapids maximized for personal and group tubing, with a slide in the middle with a ladder up from the lazy river loop. Then make the rafting/kayaking facility...back to being a rafting/kayaking facility. Then you can have both markets, both worlds....but I know of season ticket holders who have started dwindling away because of the degradation of the rafting experience.

Check out this cool video comparing our rowing facility to others in the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA5q6LUv-n4

Thank you! That video was so cool!!

Thank you! That video was so cool!!

Yes- it does showcase how OKC has a truly unique opportunity with the global, urban water sports venue the Oklahoma River and RIVERSPORT offers.

A new facility will replace the current one-container setup just west of the BMX track.

Design is by AHMM.


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That looks nice, a good upgrade to the current setup.

Not sure where to add this, but I visited Vancouver, WA, and their Riverfront is what OKC needs. But, as mentioned earlier, there is a severe lack of innovative, creative, well-funded developers to build something like this. 5 tower cranes with 4 football fields. It's insane!

Not sure where to add this, but I visited Vancouver, WA, and their Riverfront is what OKC needs. But, as mentioned earlier, there is a severe lack of innovative, creative, well-funded developers to build something like this. 5 tower cranes with 4 football fields. It's insane!

You really need to stop bagging on local developers.

Getting old and as I've stated many times, your assessment is uninformed.

You really need to stop bagging on local developers.

Getting old and as I've stated many times, your assessment is uninformed.

I can do that. Just kind of sucks that Vancouver, WA has something like this, and OKC doesn't. It's crazy how underutilized the riverfront in OKC is.

Not sure where to add this, but I visited Vancouver, WA, and their Riverfront is what OKC needs. But, as mentioned earlier, there is a severe lack of innovative, creative, well-funded developers to build something like this. 5 tower cranes with 4 football fields. It's insane!

That area is like four blocks from the city's center, a closer comparison for us is probably the old Ford dealer site or just west of upper section of Scissortail Park.

I can do that. Just kind of sucks that Vancouver, WA has something like this, and OKC doesn't. It's crazy how underutilized the riverfront in OKC is.

Vancouver has one of the densest and most beautiful waterfronts in the world. Might as well be comparing OKC to Hong Kong.

We literally started with a ditch that had to be mowed.

What has been accomplished thus far is phenomenal. And, lest you forget, we may be getting Olympic events in 2028.

Vancouver has one of the densest and most beautiful waterfronts in the world. Might as well be comparing OKC to Hong Kong.

We literally started with a ditch that had to be mowed.

What has been accomplished thus far is phenomenal. And, lest you forget, we may be getting Olympic events in 2028.

Fair enough. Maybe not to that level. But I think some residential would work there. Vancouver does have an incredible waterfront!

And rhe Olympic events will hopefully do wonders for the riverfront.

I believe chssooner is referring to Vancouver, WASHINGTON, not British Columbia. A more fair comparison for what is possible in OKC. https://localwiki.org/media/cache/b0/3d/b03d8fe1f80378d63afd79234a3b3574.jpg

Vancouver, Washington or Vancouver, BC?

He said Washington but I read it as British Columbia.

My bad.

The Vancouver, Washington waterfront had also been functional with industries/shipbuilding before Oklahoma City existed back in the 1800s. Not to say that the Oklahoma River couldn't be improved, but sort of an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Vancouver WA's waterfront was an industrial site 20 years ago, not unlike the Cotton Seed Mill. It's been rebuilt into apartments, restaurants and a hotel with several empty lots still waiting to be developed. It would be a great model for OKC and Tulsa since it's higher density but with mostly low-rise buildings and still retains a good amount of riverfront park space.

He said Washington but I read it as British Columbia.

My bad.

1,000,000% meant Vancouver, WA.

No worries at all! Might have not made it clear in my original comment.

Work has started on this project:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/boathouse092622b.jpg


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Just Beautiful !

I’m at the West Bend development in Fort Worth that has a few restaurants overlooking the Trinity River and walking/bike path. This is exactly what the Boathouse District area needs. I really think some mixed use apartments/condos/hotel would thrive and bring a lot more life to the area. And that area has way more going for it then the Trinity River.

19193

I’m at the West Bend development in Fort Worth that has a few restaurants overlooking the Trinity River and walking/bike path. This is exactly what the Boathouse District area needs. I really think some mixed use apartments/condos/hotel would thrive and bring a lot more life to the area. And that area has way more going for it then the Trinity River.

19193

I've ran on that path and I agree that would be cool along our river trail.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/boathouserow010125a.jpg

This would be a great time to plant some trees around all the boathouses so they have a few years to mature before the Olympics.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/boathouserow010125a.jpg

I'm curious to see how they'll arrange the stands in 2028 with BARK and the shipping containers in the way.

This would be a great time to plant some trees around all the boathouses so they have a few years to mature before the Olympics.

Some trees would go a LONG way. As would removing/realigning those streets and that ridiculous cloverleaf ramp.

I'm curious to see how they'll arrange the stands in 2028 with BARK and the shipping containers in the way.

Last I heard, there was still discussion on which channel they would actually use. If they use the outer channel, the inner one will be dammed off and they would probably put the stands over the inner channel and also on 5h street. Or vice versa, if the inner channel is used stands will built over the outer channel.

I'm curious to see how they'll arrange the stands in 2028 with BARK and the shipping containers in the way.

neither of those would be in the way for stands ..

Last I heard, there was still discussion on which channel they would actually use. If they use the outer channel, the inner one will be dammed off and they would probably put the stands over the inner channel and also on 5h street. Or vice versa, if the inner channel is used stands will built over the outer channel.

Talked to the guy who runs Riversport a month or two ago. Unless something changes, they’re using the competition channel and building the stands at least partially over the rec channel. He said that there is plenty of room for the kayak cross in that channel and unless I misunderstood, they basically helped create and test that sport here in the competition channel with some really rudimentary wooden shoots that they built. Pretty cool.