You left out the option of continuing to sublease like what they're doing. I never felt a boathouse would mean as much for OU as other schools. If the private funding comes, it comes. If not, continue to sublease.

Well, subleasing means that they are still spending money on an ongoing basis on a facility away from campus to row at a location you argued was unfavorable due to its distance from students' housing. With location being the crux of your argument, the subleasing option didn't seem relevant. But now that you bring it up, it's probably the opposite of unnecessary spending if they can build a facility with donations, because it then saves them the money spent on the lease they are paying now. They could even MAKE money off leasing it out themselves on occasion.

I didn't argue that it is too far away for student athletes. It is too far away for the student population as a whole to justify the expense of a boathouse. Even if the funds for the building were donated, the maintenance costs could exceed what they are paying to sublease.

^
Huh? Its a 30 minute drive for most students outside of rush hour.

As far as the justification for a boathouse, it is most certainly a "luxury" for the school that the vast majority of students will never use. Hence why they are using private donations rather than hitting up students for fees or taking the costs out of the general fund (and probably getting it built faster). That would be the case if it were in Norman as well. Heck, I would vouch and say that the majority of students did not use the Houston Huffman fitness center on campus, yet I remember every semester paying a "user fee" for it.

This is something OU is doing for the benefit of the community. Their method to raise the funds has probably drawn out the process longer than most would like but I have no doubt it will get built.

^
Huh? Its a 30 minute drive for most students outside of rush hour.

You're absolutely correct and that isn't taking into account the mulitude of OU students who live in OKC and commute to school or the large numbers at the medical school who could almost walk there.

LandRunOkie - have you heard of OU Med Center? Just saying.....

^
Huh? Its a 30 minute drive for most students outside of rush hour.

As far as the justification for a boathouse, it is most certainly a "luxury" for the school that the vast majority of students will never use. Hence why they are using private donations rather than hitting up students for fees or taking the costs out of the general fund (and probably getting it built faster). That would be the case if it were in Norman as well. Heck, I would vouch and say that the majority of students did not use the Houston Huffman fitness center on campus, yet I remember every semester paying a "user fee" for it.

This is something OU is doing for the benefit of the community. Their method to raise the funds has probably drawn out the process longer than most would like but I have no doubt it will get built.

this is an OU athletic dept facility .. ... the OU AD doesn't get funds from the general OU budget (unlike osu) it is self supporting ..

This is something OU is doing for the benefit of the community. Their method to raise the funds has probably drawn out the process longer than most would like but I have no doubt it will get built.
So you are saying it is going to be always open to the public? If so, why even attach the OU name to it? If not, its not for the community.

You're absolutely correct and that isn't taking into account the mulitude of OU students who live in OKC and commute to school or the large numbers at the medical school who could almost walk there.
If someone is so financially strapped to be commuting 30+ miles each way, you think they are going to be rowing?
There are well under 1500 students at the OU HSC. There are over 25,000 at the Norman campus. You are suggesting building such an expensive facility for 1500 students + Okc commuters? Doesn't make sense.


this is an OU athletic dept facility .. ... the OU AD doesn't get funds from the general OU budget (unlike osu) it is self supporting ..
That is a whole other issue. Why the athletic department gets to use the OU logo without substantial reimbursements to the university is confounding.

That is a whole other issue. Why the athletic department gets to use the OU logo without substantial reimbursements to the university is confounding.

This makes no sense, the athletic dept. is a money generator for the university.

So you are saying it is going to be always open to the public? If so, why even attach the OU name to it? If not, its not for the community.

If someone is so financially strapped to be commuting 30+ miles each way, you think they are going to be rowing?
There are well under 1500 students at the OU HSC. There are over 25,000 at the Norman campus. You are suggesting building such an expensive facility for 1500 students + Okc commuters? Doesn't make sense.


That is a whole other issue. Why the athletic department gets to use the OU logo without substantial reimbursements to the university is confounding.

Okay, you clearly have some personal issues with OU or the OU athletic department.

The fact is, olympic sports raise the prestige of a university nationally. As much as we love our football team, having a world class rowing facility improves the overall perception of the school. Go to other cities and you'll find major universities sponsoring things like this all the time, frequently in areas far from the main campus. If OU pays for their boathouse using private donations specifically for that purpose, then the only costs to the university come from maintenance. That's small potatoes compared to the value it adds to the school as a whole. It's a worthwhile endeavor. And they attach the OU name to it because it's great advertising for the school. Duh.

Not only does the athletic department raise money for the school, when OU teams are doing well, admissions go up and the overall quality of the students go up (the university can afford to be more selective). A boathouse on the river is not only good for the city, it's good for the school.

This makes no sense, the athletic dept. is a money generator for the university.
So how much money has the athletic department given to the university in the last 10 years? Give some facts please.


The fact is, olympic sports raise the prestige of a university nationally.
Proof?

As much as we love our football team, having a world class rowing facility improves the overall perception of the school.
I never said I loved football or the team. I played it in high school and it is a brutal and militaristic game. Universities in Europe don't have organized athletics and find it silly that we do.


Go to other cities and you'll find major universities sponsoring things like this all the time, frequently in areas far from the main campus. If OU pays for their boathouse using private donations specifically for that purpose, then the only costs to the university come from maintenance. That's small potatoes compared to the value it adds to the school as a whole. It's a worthwhile endeavor. And they attach the OU name to it because it's great advertising for the school. Duh.

Fair enough. Most of those other schools also probably have natural rivers nearby so it doesn't seem as forced, but fair enough. As long as tax money isn't used.


Not only does the athletic department raise money for the school, when OU teams are doing well, admissions go up and the overall quality of the students go up (the university can afford to be more selective). A boathouse on the river is not only good for the city, it's good for the school.
If OU raised academic standards and devoted fundraising efforts to endowed professorships instead of fancy buildings with microphones for every student, wood paneled desks, and projectors in every room, it wouldn't need the football team to do well to increase enrollment.

If OU raised academic standards and devoted fundraising efforts to endowed professorships instead of fancy buildings with microphones for every student, wood paneled desks, and projectors in every room, it wouldn't need the football team to do well to increase enrollment.

The endowment has been more than tripled in the Boren era -- now close to $1 billion -- and a good chunk of that goes towards more professors and increased salaries.

The school endowment is now one of the largest in the Big XII and is still growing at a healthy rate.


This all accomplished while building almost $1 billion in new facilities.

If OU raised academic standards and devoted fundraising efforts to endowed professorships instead of fancy buildings with microphones for every student, wood paneled desks, and projectors in every room, it wouldn't need the football team to do well to increase enrollment.

The endowment has been more than tripled in the Boren era -- now close to $1 billion -- and a good chunk of that goes towards more professors and increased salaries.

The school endowment is now one of the largest in the Big XII and is still growing at a healthy rate.


This all accomplished while building almost $1 billion in new facilities and dramatically raising academic standards.

'So how much money has the athletic department given to the university in the last 10 years? Give some facts please.'

I'm won't take the time to find this for you or anyone else, but it's well documented. Go over to the 'Sports' threads and you can find it there.

The endowment has been more than tripled in the Boren era -- now close to $1 billion -- and a good chunk of that goes towards more professors and increased salaries.
The school endowment is now one of the largest in the Big XII and is still growing at a healthy rate.
This all accomplished while building almost $1 billion in new facilities.
Yes, Boren has a done a great job of raising funds. I noticed the associate professors were really good and the adjunct were not very good. He hasn't done nearly enough to increase the quality of instruction in my opinion, mainly through recruiting associate and endowed professors. If he worked on that and raised out of state tuition, he would be the perfect president imo.


'So how much money has the athletic department given to the university in the last 10 years? Give some facts please.'
I'm won't take the time to find this for you or anyone else, but it's well documented. Go over to the 'Sports' threads and you can find it there.
Trust me, I've tried to find it. That's why I'm asking you. They actually use the excuse that they are seperately funded so that they don't have to disclose their financial statements. If you want anyone to believe the AD actually pays the university, post it here. They certainly do a good job of keeping such info a secret.

Yes, Boren has a done a great job of raising funds. I noticed the associate professors were really good and the adjunct were not very good. He hasn't done nearly enough to increase the quality of instruction in my opinion, mainly through recruiting associate and endowed professors. If he worked on that and raised out of state tuition, he would be the perfect president imo.


Trust me, I've tried to find it. That's why I'm asking you. They actually use the excuse that they are seperately funded so that they don't have to disclose their financial statements. If you want anyone to believe the AD actually pays the university, post it here. They certainly do a good job of keeping such info a secret.

they don't and it is widely reported each and every year

BTW, I researched the hard data and when Boren took over in 1994, OU's endowment was $204 million. As of the end of 2011, the endowment was $1,212 million.

Just in 2011 alone, the number grew by almost 25%. For 2012, it may be very close to $1.5 billion.

If someone is so financially strapped to be commuting 30+ miles each way, you think they are going to be rowing?
There are well under 1500 students at the OU HSC. There are over 25,000 at the Norman campus. You are suggesting building such an expensive facility for 1500 students + Okc commuters? Doesn't make sense.

While not exclusively, it is mostly for the Varsity Rowing team, how many of the expensive varsity team facilities of any of their sports are used by any of the students other than those on the teams? Another thing is this is somewhat aimed at Title IX being enforced tighter in recent years.

So you are saying it is going to be always open to the public? If so, why even attach the OU name to it? If not, its not for the community.

If someone is so financially strapped to be commuting 30+ miles each way, you think they are going to be rowing?
There are well under 1500 students at the OU HSC. There are over 25,000 at the Norman campus. You are suggesting building such an expensive facility for 1500 students + Okc commuters? Doesn't make sense.


That is a whole other issue. Why the athletic department gets to use the OU logo without substantial reimbursements to the university is confounding.

A. Don't understand your point...The Chesapeake and devon ocu boathouses are both named for the companies/university that built them and they are often open to the public

B. Who says people living outside of norman and commuting are doing so because they are financially strapped? Several of my friends lived outside of norman because they wanted to live outside of norman, owned houses outside of norman, or worked outside of norman. The cost of driving to norman everyday from OKC is high so it would make more sense for people who are financially strapped to live in Norman.

C. They are building it for the rowing team and anyone else who wants to use it.Using this logic, there are less than 100 people on the football team, I guess there was no point in spending millions of dollars upgrading the football facilities. The Houston Huffman center is used by the 10% of students that work out there, guess that was pointless too. OU shouldn't have built the honors college because only a few of the students use it. I guess they shouldn't have built the soccer stadium, remodeled the field house, remodeled the softball and baseball stadiums, built a gymnastics facility, remodeled lloyd noble, or built the sam noble museum because such a small percentage of students use them. There are 500,000 people in OKC and 500,000 additional people in the metro, guess it didn't make sense to spend $189 million to build and upgrade Chesapeake Arena since only 18,203 will use it at a time.

In response to another of your posts... It is a natural river, it is dammed and creates a perfect channel for rowing. I'm not sure what about that seems "forced," it's actually better than many natural rivers for rowing.

In summary, go troll some where else.

What I'm saying is, there is a point of diminishing returns on boathouses and we may be approaching it. A university's two main jobs are research and education. UCO and OCU are less prestigious institutions and their decision to build boathouses is somewhat tacky imo. Obviously Cheasapeake and Devon have the right to spend money however they see fit and they've played key roles in developing the river.

So how much money has the athletic department given to the university in the last 10 years? Give some facts please.

It took me about 10 minutes to find the following:
ANNUAL COUNCIL REPORTS (http://www.ou.edu/admin/facsen/cnclrep12.htm)

According to that report, the athletic department has contributed $9.2 million over the past eight years in support of academic programs. It also notes that they are the owners and operators of the new athletic/honors housing center, so non-athlete students will be benefiting from the department in that manner as well.

Went out there tonight to look around. Didn't know the river was dry. Looked pretty strange.

for the canal connection construction

What I'm saying is, there is a point of diminishing returns on boathouses and we may be approaching it. A university's two main jobs are research and education. UCO and OCU are less prestigious institutions and their decision to build boathouses is somewhat tacky imo. Obviously Cheasapeake and Devon have the right to spend money however they see fit and they've played key roles in developing the river.

Yes, because creating the annual Head of the Oklahoma Regatta was a very tacky decision. Curse OCU for creating an event that draws in colleges and universities from around the country, in addition to tens of thousands of spectators/tourists, to downtown Oklahoma City! How dare they!

At this point, it seems that you are arguing simply because you want to argue. Your points are not backed by anything other than your "imo" at the end.

What I'm saying is, there is a point of diminishing returns on boathouses and we may be approaching it. A university's two main jobs are research and education. UCO and OCU are less prestigious institutions and their decision to build boathouses is somewhat tacky imo. Obviously Cheasapeake and Devon have the right to spend money however they see fit and they've played key roles in developing the river.

Less prestigous huh...um ok. Granted I'm an alum of of OCU so i have might be a little biased here, but I also have a wife that is getting her doctorate at OU as well as plenty family members having gone through there and UCO, so I feel like i can objectively look at all three (and really any university in OK). Each has it's own place and does something better than the other. However, contrary to your opinion there, it is generally considered that OCU is a more prestigous institution. Not just because it costs more, but because of the quality of education. At OCU, you only have professors with a PHD, or that are ABD on their PHD, so no grad TA's. It's all superfluous banter though....and really irrelevant to this discussion.

What you're missing about the boathouses is what their use entails beyond just being a garage for some boats. If that's all they were going to be used for, we'd just have a couple metal prefab structures with a Genie garage door opener on them. That's not what this is about. For one thing, check out how busy the CHK Boathouse is for events like fundraisers, weddings, receptions, etc. Those events are direct money makers for the facility. So for OU, that means money back....meaning the return on the investment of the facility. The other boathouses have similar options, but also can serve other special purposes based on the specialized design each of them have. You can check out the differences here on the other pages of this thread....ie the jazz ensemble emphasis for the UCO boathouse. There is no shortage for the number of people at those events either.

Not to mention the fact that it's an olympic training site now. And all the other events in crew that are held there. The more features we add, such as the lights and stands, the better the facility gets. It's just like the OU stadium. You build it because there is a desire to have more places to put people or to do things, and then the experience grows. So for the boathouse, we put more in because there is a desire/need to expand the facilities to meet the needs of the experience. And OU isn't going to lose any money on it either.

I like how you started your post... Most universities serve a very important purpose and usually have at least some programs that are excellent. However, claiming OCU is generally considered a more "prestigious" university is silly. You should have just stuck with your first part of that first paragraph.

And we can we all just move on from LandRunOkie at this point. S/he is just grasping at anything at this point. And then after a wild claim s/he puts the burden on the rest of the forum to provide proof. It's a juvenile way to form an argument.

It took me about 10 minutes to find the following:
ANNUAL COUNCIL REPORTS (http://www.ou.edu/admin/facsen/cnclrep12.htm)
According to that report, the athletic department has contributed $9.2 million over the past eight years in support of academic programs.
That is exactly what I'm looking for. 9.2 million over 8 years, or about 1.2 million per year. Meanwhile they make $10-30 million/year profit! What reason other than corruption and/or bureaucratic inefficiency would allow the AD to be separate from the university? If the university subsumed the AD, it would capture an order of magnitude more money from ITS athletic programs.

That is exactly what I'm looking for. 9.2 million over 8 years, or about 1.2 million per year. Meanwhile they make $10-30 million/year profit! What reason other than corruption and/or bureaucratic inefficiency would allow the AD to be separate from the university? If the university subsumed the AD, it would capture an order of magnitude more money from ITS athletic programs.

Are you serious or just trying to be controversial?

Let me throw some numbers at you. The price of books, fees, and in-state tuition is about $10,000 year. (http://www.ou.edu/admissions/home/resources/cost_estimate.html) So $10 million/year would be enough to give 1,000 in state students a "full-ride", minus boarding, every year. Or 250 freshman every year. So why is the AD separate?

This has nothing to do with a boathouse. Grind your axe somewhere else. Clearly you're an OU student or former OU student who is pissed about his tuition. This is not the place for this discussion.

I'm not pissed about my tuition. Its angering to me that alumni will bend over backwards to help the football team win, but are disinterested in keeping college affordable for in state students and improving the quality of education. The reason this is an appropriate place for those concerns is because alumni money would be better spent elsewhere than "boathouse row".

Alumni also seem to be disinterested in engaging the crucial question "How does the university benefit from having a seperate, financially independent AD?"

The benefits for the university of a separate, financially independent AD are absolutely clear in the case of OU. Simply because you refuse to acknowledge them makes them no less valid.

Let me throw some numbers at you. The price of books, fees, and in-state tuition is about $10,000 year. (http://www.ou.edu/admissions/home/resources/cost_estimate.html) So $10 million/year would be enough to give 1,000 in state students a "full-ride", minus boarding, every year. Or 250 freshman every year. So why is the AD separate?

I have a son going to Rice University in a masters program and some of his classes are $5,000.00 per class. You are getting a bargain at OU.

That is exactly what I'm looking for. 9.2 million over 8 years, or about 1.2 million per year. Meanwhile they make $10-30 million/year profit! What reason other than corruption and/or bureaucratic inefficiency would allow the AD to be separate from the university? If the university subsumed the AD, it would capture an order of magnitude more money from ITS athletic programs.

please show me where the athletic dept profits at 10-30 mil a year??? it doesn't ... OU is one of about 15 AD in the country that is self sufficient ..

but are disinterested in keeping college affordable for in state students and improving the quality of education.

This has more to do with university presidents spending money like there is no tomorrow. Every college has seen a building boom over recent years and have had to pass the costs on down. Also doesnt help with states diminishing education funding during the great recession.

Tuition for Oklahoma public colleges is still crazy low; OU & OSU are cheaper than any other Big XII school -- by a fair margin.

It has been raised substantially but that's only because is was absurd in the past; so much so the quality of education was strongly affected.


Despite the tuition increases, enrollment at OU and OSU are at or near all-time highs.

And if you are a good student, in-state schools offer tons of scholarship and grant opportunities.

I'm changing the topic.
I was working out on the orgs yesterday and saw some poles up east of the boathouse, have they already started the zipline?

I was working out on the orgs yesterday and saw some poles up east of the boathouse, have they already started the zipline?

Yes.

I would agree obviously that OU and OSU are a decent value. I would argue community colleges are a much better value. When you include housing, OU is about $18000/year. A community college class is about $75/hour. So a community college student can get 60 hours of fully transferable credit for $4500 for what OSU and OU charge ~$36,000 for. There needs to be a much greater awareness from high school seniors of what community colleges can do for you, as the larger institutions become more and more interested in spectacle. Its sad to see the levels of student loan debt skyrocketing as kids blindly enroll in Football U.

Do I need to start a thread about in-state tuition at Tulsa, oSu and OU? Seriously LandRun... I come here for Boathouse Row news, not to read your constant gripes on the cost of quality education.

Yes.Is it permanent?

I would agree obviously that OU and OSU are a decent value. I would argue community colleges are a much better value. When you include housing, OU is about $18000/year. A community college class is about $75/hour. So a community college student can get 60 hours of fully transferable credit for $4500 for what OSU and OU charge ~$36,000 for. There needs to be a much greater awareness from high school seniors of what community colleges can do for you, as the larger institutions become more and more interested in spectacle. Its sad to see the levels of student loan debt skyrocketing as kids blindly enroll in Football U.

Make the smart choice then and go to a Community College for 2 years. Or are you wanting someone to just give you something ?

Can we please just get back to topic?

Can we please just get back to topic?

I'm right with ya! Sorry to those of you that clicked on my post to see important information regarding b o a t h o u s e r o w

That is exactly what I'm looking for. 9.2 million over 8 years, or about 1.2 million per year. Meanwhile they make $10-30 million/year profit! What reason other than corruption and/or bureaucratic inefficiency would allow the AD to be separate from the university? If the university subsumed the AD, it would capture an order of magnitude more money from ITS athletic programs.
Most universities that have tight control on the AD have an AD that cost the school money. It isn't like they (schools like OU, UT, OSU) aren't doing things in the AD that don't have the oversight of the school President or the Board of Regents. On field success typically leads to donations in the academic side as well as the athletic side, someone that I know in the administration at UT has said they mirror each other. As the recognition for athletic achievement gets higher so do the the academic donations, people with money like their winners and most schools outside of the Ivy League (and similar) need another driver of recognition other than academics.



This has more to do with university presidents spending money like there is no tomorrow. Every college has seen a building boom over recent years and have had to pass the costs on down. Also doesnt help with states diminishing education funding during the great recession.
The "easy money" mentality has driven the meteoric rise in tuition because the decision makers at schools always used Pell grants and student loans as why they could have such dramatic increases. I know that a few years ago the tuition at UT was going up every semester at a rate much higher than what my entire tuition and fees were at OU in the early 80's. That easy money also has fueled the for-profit private schools building schools in every major metro area.

I'm not pissed about my tuition. Its angering to me that alumni will bend over backwards to help the football team win, but are disinterested in keeping college affordable for in state students and improving the quality of education. The reason this is an appropriate place for those concerns is because alumni money would be better spent elsewhere than "boathouse row".

Alumni also seem to be disinterested in engaging the crucial question "How does the university benefit from having a seperate, financially independent AD?"

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. As someone who is involved in both the OU Club of OKC and the OU Alumni Association, the main thrust of involvement is scholarships and I don't mean athletic. Interest in athletics is a major way to accomplish that. Come back to us when you know what you're talking about.

There seems to be a lot of confusion.

Make the smart choice then and go to a Community College for 2 years. Or are you wanting someone to just give you something ?
Community colleges are a great opportunity, so I didn't take your zinger as an insult. My point is that OCCC can give a student 60 hours of credit for $4500, OU shouldn't be charging $20,000. The business-ification of public universities has gone way too far imo.

Most universities that have tight control on the AD have an AD that cost the school money.

But that doesn't mean it has to be that way. It's just a money leak for these universities. I'm pointing it out for OU because that's the school I care about.

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. As someone who is involved in both the OU Club of OKC and the OU Alumni Association, the main thrust of involvement is scholarships and I don't mean athletic. Interest in athletics is a major way to accomplish that. Come back to us when you know what you're talking about.
State funding has been cut to OU by $125 million over the last three years. (http://newsok.com/university-of-oklahoma-president-hopes-for-year-of-education/article/3735507) No matter how active you are with that, $125 mil is a lot of money. Healthcare costs are rising dramatically (higher university costs). Wages are stagnant (for work-study students). Students used to be able to work their way through school without debt but that goal is slipping away without massive private donations.

Grind that axe, son. Grind that axe.

State funding has been cut to OU by $125 million over the last three years. (http://newsok.com/university-of-oklahoma-president-hopes-for-year-of-education/article/3735507) No matter how active you are with that, $125 mil is a lot of money. Healthcare costs are rising dramatically (higher university costs). Wages are stagnant (for work-study students). Students used to be able to work their way through school without debt but that goal is slipping away without massive private donations.
State funding is being cut everywhere, not just Oklahoma, the University of Texas and Texas A&M systems agreed to state funding cuts for release from legislative oversight of tuition rates. Money flowing into the athletic departments is not going to automatically be diverted to academics if athletics were to go away, in most cases that is money the schools were never going to get for academics.

When I was in school my parents paid for my housing and I paid tuition/books. The difference is my tuition/fees for my freshman year at OU in 1982-83 was $350, books were another $200. Now a single book costs that much and tuition jumps every semester by more than my tuition amount, in fact fees at UT now are more than my entire tuition/fees were. Again, the easy credit mentality of school finance has led to the extremely quick rise in tuition and fees increases in recent years, there is no logical reason why in-state tuition at UT should be $5-6,000 a semester when it was around $600 30 years ago. I don't think inflation has gone up at that rate.

Jesus Christ...take this subject to another thread!!!

jesus christ...take this subject to another thread!!!

^this!

Stop feeding the trolls!!!

Any more posts on athletic departments or general college funding or anything off way off topic will be deleted.

Back to topic, please.

THANK YOU!!!! lol :)

THANK YOU!!!! lol :)

I'll second that.

So anyway....blah blah landrun.........back to some boathouses.....

One thing i've always found a bit odd, is that the grandstands are on the south side of the river. It seems like they should also be on the north side, with everything else. I mean, if you put it on the south, you can keep things more compact i guess where they are on a shorter stretch of the river, but you lose some of the walkability from the boathouses to the stands.

So anyway....blah blah landrun.........back to some boathouses.....

One thing i've always found a bit odd, is that the grandstands are on the south side of the river. It seems like they should also be on the north side, with everything else. I mean, if you put it on the south, you can keep things more compact i guess where they are on a shorter stretch of the river, but you lose some of the walkability from the boathouses to the stands.

The grandstand is linded up with the finish line though, if it was on the north side, it'd be in the way of the finish line tower.

So my guess is that to get to the grandstands from the primary parking area people will have to walk across the Lincoln bridge and I assume the bridge will be closed off for all events. Also, what about south side access? They need to take that old industrial lot on the west side of Lincoln (south side of the river) and turn it into parking for more access to the grandstands and access for the trails system. Currently, there is parking there for boat trailers and that is it. The lot they need to build would be to the south of that.

They already close the bridge off for events large enough that the grandstands would be useful, so that will probably continue. I think there already is a sidewalk with a concrete barricade between it an the road though if it was not closed. In the conceptual plans there are towers to connect to the bridge with stares and elevators to have access to the pedestrian trails on both sides, I do not think one for either bank is funded at this point unless it is a line item in the stadium, the one on the south bank would be more useful since it saves 2000 ft of walking verses the north side could save 200 ft of walking.

Yeah, I knew that they closed the bridge off already, but you still need to have more parking on the south side of the bridge cause otherwise, people from SE 15th and on south are going to have to bob and weave all over the roads to the north side of the facility just to get decent parking. It'd just be nice for them to have more parking available on the south side of the river.

Do you have these conceptual renderings available of the stairs and elevators that are to be built on the side (I suppose east side) of Lincoln bridge? I just don't remember that detail and would love to see it. Thanks!

I do not think this is the latest version, just the only one I was finding on the site (the latest one is probably in the Riverfront Redevelopment Authority public records), still the looks is similar. With the elevator shaft in a triangle-ish building and the stairs next to in either some sort of fenced, metal mesh or windows.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QJCmVrtNDjI/Sm0yorXUjUI/AAAAAAAAAX0/7dbGTmWa_ks/s1600/Night%2BRacing1.jpg

Those river lights look like Oral-B tooth brushes in those renderings lol. Thanks!