He who does not dream is lost in mediocrity.:tiphat:

Your dream is just that....a dream. Larry Nichols isn't going to drop $4 billion+ on a building in OKC. I never said I wouldn't want it to happen. Besides who would occupy it? There is vacant office space in downtown OKC right now. Granted it's Class B and C. Nichols cares about downtown and doesn't want to over populate it with space that no one will use. If you were to build the tallest building in the world in OKC you would have just that. Empty space. I love OKC just like everyone else on this board but it isn't going to happen. Do you really think OKC would get something like this over Chicago or NYC? I don't want to start an argument I just want to make myself clear.

It has been 30 years sice OKC has built a skyscraper. Let just be happy that one is getting built. It's not going to be the tallest in the world but it will probably be one of the most iconic in the US.

Your dream is just that....a dream. Larry Nichols isn't going to drop $4 billion+ on a building in OKC. I never said I wouldn't want it to happen. Besides who would occupy it? There is vacant office space in downtown OKC right now. Granted it's Class B and C. Nichols cares about downtown and doesn't want to over populate it with space that no one will use. If you were to build the tallest building in the world in OKC you would have just that. Empty space. I love OKC just like everyone else on this board but it isn't going to happen. Do you really think OKC would get something like this over Chicago or NYC? I don't want to start an argument I just want to make myself clear.

It has been 30 years sice OKC has built a skyscraper. Let just be happy that one is getting built. It's not going to be the tallest in the world but it will probably be one of the most iconic in the US.

Tall doesn't mean you have to have lots of office space. Me thinks a building about 50 stories and then top it out with towers that have wind turbines. Maybe half and half...lol

Care to show us an example of a 50+ story building with wind turbines on top?

i know of a 10 story building that will be built in OKC with wind turbines.

where? when? who is building it?

i know of a 10 story building that will be built in OKC with wind turbines.

If you can do 10 why not 50?

Union Pacific Center.

http://www.holderconstruction.com/Home.nsf/content/AboutHolderUnionPacificCenter/$file/up_overview_landscape.jpg?OpenElement

sgt pepper tell us more of this building u speak of

Union Pacific Center.

http://www.holderconstruction.com/Home.nsf/content/AboutHolderUnionPacificCenter/$file/up_overview_landscape.jpg?OpenElement

For those who don't know this is one of Hines buildings. The same Hines that Devon has hired.

i know of a 10 story building that will be built in OKC with wind turbines.

Dude that pic is of UPC in Omaha. (and I believe it's 17 stories if I remember right). You mentioned a 10 story building in OKC with wind turbines that produces the buildings own electricity. I'm curious as to more info about that.

Not trying to be rude but it's located in Omaha and according to Emporis it's 19 floors and 317ft.

It is a research building and it will be built near the ou medical center/childrens hospital area. By the Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation. It is suppose to be a hush hush project, so don't know much about it. Start construction summer 2008 and be finished by 2011. Looks similair to what jbrown posted.

A Sheikh ( hope that is spelled correctly) has announced plans to build a scraper in the Middle East that will be 5280ft, one mile tall. Not in Dubai, but close enough so the Dubaiers can see it. I don't think anyone will top that for a long time. Estimated cost was 4 billion, if my memory is good.

What better way for an energy leader like Devon to build a building and use wind to power the building? It would make them look like the leader of saving the planet...:tiphat:

A Sheikh ( hope that is spelled correctly) has announced plans to build a scraper in the Middle East that will be 5280ft, one mile tall. Not in Dubai, but close enough so the Dubaiers can see it. I don't think anyone will top that for a long time. Estimated cost was 4 billion, if my memory is good.

I take it they aren't on the metric system?

I take it they aren't on the metric system?
i seriously doubt that... i think we're the only ones who don't use it.

It is a research building and it will be built near the ou medical center/childrens hospital area. By the Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation. It is suppose to be a hush hush project, so don't know much about it. Start construction summer 2008 and be finished by 2011. Looks similair to what jbrown posted.

I can vouch for Sgt. Pepper on this one. Though, I do not know the specifics or whether the turbines were included in the final plans.

I do know that OMRF is very excited about its new diggs.

Why dont they build it to 12 storeys? That way, it will count as a 'skyscraper'?

As for Devon, Im hoping for:

700+ Feet, 1.2M sq feet @ FSR of 14.6 gives 48 office floors/stories (assuming avg footprint of 25,000 sq feet and no spire).

700 feet would give OKC the titles that Tulsa currently holds (tallest office bldg in plains/surrounding states ex TX/CO, largest office bldg in state), yet would not significantly dwarf the existing skyscrapers downtown.

Something to consider, Tulsa's second tallest downtown building is over 150 feet shorter than BOK, yet you can barely tell in most angles. If done strategically, Devon Tower can beat BOK by 33 feet, capture the title, and still be in line with the rest of downtown OKC.

If done strategically, Devon Tower can beat BOK by 33 feet, capture the title, and still be in line with the rest of downtown OKC.

Especially if another company--presumably American Fidelity--were to build themselves some downtown diggs as well. Imagine if they joined the race to alter our city skyline. That would be sweet...

I wish Paycom, Loves, Hertz, and American Fidelity would build downtown.

i don't know about the rest of these, but Loves just built a new addition to thier headquarters on N. Penn, so i don't think they're going anywhere.

Hertz also just consolidated their campus to north of Memorial and are looking to consolidate more. They just sold their building at 63rd and NW Expressway, and have been laying off employees in droves.

They also have 2 fairly new buildings on the land they own between Quail Springs Parkway and 150th. Heck, the road is even named after them.

The new ownership group is too interested in trying to boost their stock prices, which have never quite recovered after 9/11. The bulk of their executive management team don't even live or work in OKC, so they really don't have a lot of community interest here.

I think you've got to look at another factor. Some people choose to work in places that are NOT downtown. Not every employee wants to be here, deal with the parking and other issues here. Some prefer to work "in the burbs," and seek companies that are located in those areas, which may be closer to their homes, daycares, children's schools, etc. I don't know that it's necessarily healthy or good to have every single large company in the downtown area, and certainly not every person who works for a large company WANTS the downtown experience.

Arent' there rumors already swirling about AF making the downtown move?

I wish Paycom, Loves, Hertz, and American Fidelity would build downtown.

Or even just renovate and occupy some of the space we have.

Arent' there rumors already swirling about AF making the downtown move?

That'd kill the 23rd and Classen area. Not to mention leaving two more large vacant buildings in that area.

That'd kill the 23rd and Classen area. Not to mention leaving two more large vacant buildings in that area.

I agree completely. There just seems to be a lot of buzz (and that's probably all that it is), that AF may choose to move downtown at some point.

I personally love downtown, love working downtown, love going to restaurants and entertainment venues downtown. That being said, I know it's not an experience everyone enjoys or desires. My husband happens to be one of those people. We come down from time to time, but it's really more my cup of tea.

I also believe a a good city needs to have balance. Our city has been skewed in favor of the suburbs for some time now, and our downtown was neglected. That tide is now shifting - which is a good thing. But I don't think we should go overboard with it. Not every large company wants to be, nor should be, downtown.

An AF employee I know said they were looking at moving into the Kerr/Mcgee building downtown, now that Sandridge is in there, he said he's not sure what they are going to do.

Any chance AF could occupy FNB? Insurance and assurance companies like to portray an image that they are strong and will be around when they are needed. The FNB portrays that kind of image. Rock solid, traditional, majestic. They don't build like that anymore.

Cox Communications has talked about consolidating most of their OKC workforce in one building. Thats a couple of years off though. They have 1200 employee's in OKC.

There has been a lot of talk about American Fidelity being part of Core to Shore, specifically the buildings proposed for west of the Ford Center.

But if that was to happen, it would be several years down the road.

I don't know if we should consider Core-to-Shore as a real office option simply because if I was a business owner, I wouldn't wait for a [I]possible[I] urban renewal/development project that will be mostly taxpayer funded that MIGHT NOT happen. So if I were a business that was considering building downtown/ish I would not be thinking Core-to-Shore I would be thinking CBD. Because by the time Core-to-Shore becomes a truly possibility my business (American Fidelity) will have grown to the point that their old buildings would be obsolete and yet Core-to-Shore still hasn't happened (speaking in the future). A good business has got to consider growth first and foremost and then if something presents itself that AF could be a good corporate citizen then I think they might go for it, but I don't think that they would postpone the building of a tower JUST so that they can be a part of core-to-shore.

Hope that makes since if not, let me know!

i agree, build for the future... but don't wait till the future to build.... i think here in the next few years they should build not in the next 15, but the people in charge are smart obviously i just have opinions and am very highrise bias.... so they know what best for their company.....HOPEFULLY!! haha

this is a little off the current topic...
however, some posters have expressed a desire for new scrapers to be built so that the devon tower doesn't stick out. of course i love new towers, but i think we could use some buildings being renovated. the centerpoint energy plaza in houston and renaissance tower in dallas are great examples of boring box designs that got remodeled into instantly recognizable icons of their skylines.
the centerpoint addition gave it 86 extra feet and the search lights look killer at night up inside it. likewise, the crown that renaissance received has glowing diamonds that look fantastic at night and added 150 feet to it.
chase tower is a perfect candidate for this type of treatment.
i would also hope that KMG would simply get finished in some granite or some sort of stone... that would do wonders for that building. maybe add some aluminum crown to the top as well.

and don't get me started about the park harvey.

just look what adding new windows did to the 360...

edcrunk, unfortunately exterior renovations can't be done to the Park Harvey, it's part of the 99 year ground lease and I believe some grant money restrictions they received. Tanenbaum originally wanted to do exterior work and replace windows and the aluminum window panels but was unable because of restrictions.

but chase and some of the other i'm sure could and if u could do something like done to centerpoint energy plaza that would be amazing and make the building taller and much more iconic!!! i love what they did to that builing its beautiful

edcrunk has a point. When Devon's building get built it will really show the age and neglect of some buildings. One thing that might really help is if we have some good lighting at night on the buildings. The best lit building is Kerr Mcgee/Sandrige and thats with floodlights. I know we have had this discussion before but IMO if someone just added some decent lights to the buildings it would look really good. Look at the skyline after midnight. Once Kerr Mcgee shuts the lights off thats pretty much it. FNC still looks good. I know some people hate it but what is the most recognizable building in Big D at night? The green BOA Plaza. I also agree about adding something to Chase like a crown or something.

Here is the buildings ed is talking about.

Renaissance Building
http://www.johnsonsylvan.com/images/renaissance.jpg

Centerpoint Energy
http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/HAI/Images/Buildings/Downtown/CenterPointEnergyPlaza-001.jpg

I for one hate the black box that is Chase Tower. It would be much better if they replaced the black windows with mirrors or something. Downtown really needs some color. And do something with the backs of the building on Park that you can see from the south as you enter downtown or go by on I-40.

I have always thought the the Centerpoint Energy building lookes so powerful. I think it is a cool building. It would be nice to see the exteriors of some of our towers modernized... upgraded.

Centerpoint Energy looks nice! Mainly because it appears to be a real structural change therefore really belonging to the building. I personally have always thought that the Renaissance building in Dallas looks just as cosmetic as it is...in other words cheap.

If Chase in OKC were to undergo a transformation, it should respect the spirit of the building. I could envision a facade similar to the new 7 world trade center in NYC: light green/clear glass with a horizontal aluminum type banding at the top that matches the spandrels. In addition, the lobby 'arches' could be built out to be an atrium-like space such as the IBM building in NYC.

Speaking of NYC, have any of you seen the time warner center in NYC or the Hyatt Complex in Montreal? These are both great mix/used office, shopping, hotel,convention complexes that would be fantastic for the Devon project's location. They both create active centers where people congregate. Granted we don't have that type of pedestrian traffic, but it could still be a success.

By the way does anyone know if there are any provisions for building a 2nd half to the Colcord building? This will be in direct proximity to the new Devon tower and, if well planned could become part of an overall mixed-use project. It would also add more hotel space. Remember the plans they had in the 80's to build a 2nd half to complement the original plan, albeit with a reflective addition?

OKC, as of late, has been receiving a lot of coverage for events that have been held here and as a result more people, nationally, are realizing that we're not just cowboys & Indians running around here. So, with that in mind, I think that companies will be interested in moving to OKC and making downtown their headquarters or a regional office here. In regards to renovating that empty downtown office space...yes that would be good. I hear people talking about the difference between Class A and then Class B & C office space. Apparently it makes a difference and I don't think that any headquartered company really wants that B & C space unless they're getting it for downright low rental prices.

So when Devon finally builds their tower, I hope that the owners of the other towers that they currently reside in will have new tenants to move right on in. If not, then I don't think it will be long before they are filled once again--they just need to be updated.

In regards to AF, it would be pretty cool to see them build a headquarters on the west side of the gardens, but wouldn't that take out the place where the Arts Festival is held? I don't think that them building downtown would completely desolate 23rd & Classen. I've seen that office building that they're in now & I'm positive another company would move in there just as fast. I love all this downtown revitalization & the future can't get here any faster!

I also believe a a good city needs to have balance. Our city has been skewed in favor of the suburbs for some time now, and our downtown was neglected. That tide is now shifting - which is a good thing. But I don't think we should go overboard with it. Not every large company wants to be, nor should be, downtown.

Well said. For one thing, our current highway infrastructure couldn't handle too many more major companies downtown. With adding hundreds and hundreds of new jobs downtown, I know I wouldn't want to drive it every day. We're getting there though.

Here is the buildings ed is talking about.

Renaissance Building
http://www.johnsonsylvan.com/images/renaissance.jpg

Centerpoint Energy
http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/HAI/Images/Buildings/Downtown/CenterPointEnergyPlaza-001.jpg

thank you SF!

since i've moved, i've yet to get my internet situated and just talk smack from this smart phone all day.

btw, has anyone noticed how similar the building pictured to the right of renaissance tower is to the KMG building is. it is elongated but the end shown has similar elements as well as the brown concrete.

also there is a white building on the sw corner of the high five exchange in dallas that is a smaller version of the valliance tower.

Centerpoint Energy looks nice! Mainly because it appears to be a real structural change therefore really belonging to the building. I personally have always thought that the Renaissance building in Dallas looks just as cosmetic as it is...in other words cheap.

If Chase in OKC were to undergo a transformation, it should respect the spirit of the building. I could envision a facade similar to the new 7 world trade center in NYC: light green/clear glass with a horizontal aluminum type banding at the top that matches the spandrels. In addition, the lobby 'arches' could be built out to be an atrium-like space such as the IBM building in NYC.

Speaking of NYC, have any of you seen the time warner center in NYC or the Hyatt Complex in Montreal? These are both great mix/used office, shopping, hotel,convention complexes that would be fantastic for the Devon project's location. They both create active centers where people congregate. Granted we don't have that type of pedestrian traffic, but it could still be a success.

By the way does anyone know if there are any provisions for building a 2nd half to the Colcord building? This will be in direct proximity to the new Devon tower and, if well planned could become part of an overall mixed-use project. It would also add more hotel space. Remember the plans they had in the 80's to build a 2nd half to complement the original plan, albeit with a reflective addition?

I spent some time in the Time Warner. Very nice. I agree with you whole-heartedly.

Yes Time Warner Center is one of my faves. If you saw the movie Cloverfield, it's the one they go back in to save the girlfriend.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2175/2087641416_7c67f099ba.jpg?v=0

i'm so impatient i want to know now, and i want it to be up and running tomorrow!!! come on devon!!! haha i either got to stop reading all these forums or just be more patient cuz i swear reading all this stuff make time go slower and makes me disapointed that we don't have more and bigger company's!!! haha

Supposively it will be as high as 42 stories. as i ve ''heard'' from someone that has an insight to the the company. but the design is still in the air.
What i d like to see is some design like The Times building, in NY
or something as sweet at the ones in Dubai.

check these super cool structures.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Burj_Dubai.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.info/400.php?id=13&iid=4531

http://newyorktimesbuilding.com/

http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=56322

http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=46658

these are some truly wonderful designs that would make okc skyline spectacular.,



these are some iconic buildings that would be super if Devon would design their building like one of these.

Ok my pic links didnt make it on the board,.
heres the links to those pics of some great buildings.


Pentominium - SkyscraperPage.com (http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=56322)

Burj Al Alam - SkyscraperPage.com (http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=46658)

Diagrams - SkyscraperPage.com (http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?c23)

The New York Times Building (http://newyorktimesbuilding.com/)


Shenyang City Hang Lung Plaza - SkyscraperPage.com (http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=69152)


there ya go.

Supposively it will be as high as 42 stories. as i ve ''heard'' from someone that has an insight to the the company.

Sounds like this is a derivation of the information that Nichols has already shared publicly: minimum of 1 million square feet and floorplates likely between 23 and 27 thousand square feet.

Taking 23,000 into a million, you get about 44 floors. 27,000 yields 37 floors, which is often mentioned as the minimum number.

However, Nichols did say a million would be the minimum and I'm sure they are trying to decide how much room they need for future growth. And if he is talking about usable square footage for their staff, that obviously means there will be more needed for the lobby, common areas and the atrium he's mentioned in the past.

Whoever they hire as architects will have much to say about the height, which will be solely a function of square footage required plus design considerations.

This is my fav, although I really like Dubai Towers #4

Burj Al Alam - SkyscraperPage.com

Yes metro that is a cool one
and to think we helped build them
when we buy gas.

LOL

Dubai is insane! But what do you expect when you have cheap labor and that little thing called...what is it? Oh yeah...Oil!

Dubai is not an oil city from what I understand.

Sounds like this is a derivation of the information that Nichols has already shared publicly: minimum of 1 million square feet and floorplates likely between 23 and 27 thousand square feet.

Taking 23,000 into a million, you get about 44 floors. 27,000 yields 37 floors, which is often mentioned as the minimum number.

However, Nichols did say a million would be the minimum and I'm sure they are trying to decide how much room they need for future growth. And if he is talking about usable square footage for their staff, that obviously means there will be more needed for the lobby, common areas and the atrium he's mentioned in the past.

Whoever they hire as architects will have much to say about the height, which will be solely a function of square footage required plus design considerations.

Not to mention elevators take up a massive amount of a floorplan.

What I find interesting is that the New York Times building at 52 floors is only 10 floors higher than the height discussed here, and that building is a significant presence on the NYC skyline. Kinds makes you realize that we could be talking about a really BIG building for OKC.

IMO, even if it dwarfs all the other buildings it will be a positive thing for the city as it will set a new standard in downtown construction, and be a huge visibile draw for the area.

I agree, David.

When the 60-story BofA Tower was built in Charlotte, it was quite a bit taller than anything else and I've always thought that building made their skyline rather than minimizing the rest of the structures. And since it was built, a couple of 40-story towers now complement it:

http://pics4.city-data.com/cpicc/cfiles4684.jpg

Dubai is not an oil city from what I understand.


CuatrodeMayo you are right. I didn't realize this until just know. Dubai's GDP in 05 was $37 billion, but only about 6% of that was from the oil and natural gas industy. From what I have read experts say that Dubai's oil will be exhausted in the next 20 years. Apparently the city's economy is driven on information technology, finance and trade.

I agree, David.

When the 60-story BofA Tower was built in Charlotte, it was quite a bit taller than anything else and I've always thought that building made their skyline rather than minimizing the rest of the structures. And since it was built, a couple of 40-story towers now complement it:


Just to add to what Pete was saying. The BOA tower in Charlotte when build was almost 300ft taller than anything else in the city. Since it's completion it has spawned 9+ buildings 25 stories or taller including 5 that are filling in that 300ft gap. However for 10 years the 300ft gap exsisted.

Just to add to what Pete was saying. The BOA tower in Charlotte when build was almost 300ft taller than anything else in the city. Since it's completion it has spawned 9+ buildings 25 stories or taller including 5 that are filling in that 300ft gap. However for 10 years the 300ft gap exsisted.

Anyone know how many square feet the BOA tower in Charlotte has?

Charlotte has one nice looking skyline.

David, you make a good point about dwarfing. Anything too tall in downtown OKC would make the overall skyline look less impressive.

I dont think so Solitude. 200 feet would do just fine here, giving us a 700 ft limit on Devon.

Consider this, Chase is a little over 100 feet taller than Kerr McGee. BOK in Tulsa is 150 feet taller than Tulsa's next tallest, yet they all look pretty dang close, right?

A 700 foot Devon tower will add a nice rise to Downtown OKC without significantly altering the 'effect' on the other buildings. I think there would be only ONE direction where Devon would appear to dwarf everything in downtown, and that would be coming from the SW.

But if you look today from the SE, Chase already appears to dwarf the rest of downtown - so we'd actually have a pretty good balance.

And especially assuming the "charlotte" effect happens to OKC, Devon at 700 feet would take the state title, add a MUCH needed height and prestigue boost to DOKC, all without significantly ridiculing the surrounding skyscrapers. This is especially true since we could assume the tower won't be a huge box - since it will be iconic; 700 feet tower with a spire or whatever would work PERFECT!