Well, does that mean that the committee knows something we don't and the building is not salvagable? What exactly does that mean? I'm glad that they insisted on a new design but hate to see the demolision of a building if it is not necessary.

Well, does that mean that the committee knows something we don't and the building is not salvagable? What exactly does that mean? I'm glad that they insisted on a new design but hate to see the demolision of a building if it is not necessary.
I suppose that it's a given that committee members have been inside the building and have reports about salvagability. While I've seen the building from the outside, I have no clue about the inside, structural soundness, etc.

If it's not salvageable, then the only course of action is to get a well-designed building in it's place and it sounds like that is what the committee is setting out to do.

On the positive side, hopefully we'll get a nice-looking and architecturally compatible structure and some more hotel rooms to boot.

I agree with you. I would definitely like to know more about the state of the old creamery but if it is in such bad repair then I guess I would be in favor of the space being used for for a better purpose instead of just sitting there and getting worse.

Longer, more in-depth story in the morning paper.

It's now morning! See NewsOK: Architect not hopeful for Steffen's (http://newsok.com/article/3204479/1202966355)


Architect not hopeful for Steffen's
By Steve Lackmeyer
Business Writer

The outside of the old Steffen's Ice Cream building in Bricktown may appear intact, but architect Tom Wilson insists appearance, in this case, is indeed deceiving.

The roof is caved in. The floors, all poured-in-place concrete, go from one level to another and then another. Structurally, Wilson said, the building is on the verge of collapse. The brick facade itself was damaged when previous owners tried to sandblast white paint.

"It's prohibitive,” Wilson said. "It's a stretch to just keep it up.”

Such an argument was to be expected at Wednesday's meeting of the Bricktown Urban Design Committee, which heard an application from Kusum Hospitality to tear down the dairy and replace it with a four-story, 95-room Holiday Inn Express.

But Wilson isn't working for Kusum Hospitality — he's a veteran Bricktown architect and chairman of the urban design committee. And it was Wilson's account of his firm's attempt to buy the same building a couple years ago that convinced fellow committee members the old Steffen's Ice Cream building is beyond saving.

Architect Fred Quinn, working on behalf of Kusum Hospitality, said his firm made several efforts to see if the former dairy could be converted into a hotel.

"All in all, we tried hard,” Quinn said.

Demolition of the building is not a certainty. Committee members unanimously criticized the proposed design by Quinn & Associates, which included a facade of 61 percent brick and 49 percent synthetic stucco.

Kip Bettencourt, an architect with Quinn & Associates, defended the design and argued the use of synthetic stucco, commonly known as Exterior Insulation Finish Systems or EIFS, was not a matter of cost. Instead, he said, the material was included as a matter of good design.

"I selected the amount of brick myself with architectural license,” Bettencourt said. "I felt that just slapping brick on this building for the sake of putting brick on it was inappropriate. These buildings were built at different times ... and that's how these things evolved and that's what I was trying to be true to.”

Bettencourt also agreed with committee comments that the building was "a little bit busy.” But he said he was trying to provide something "attractive to address the corner of Oklahoma and Main Street.”

Committee members were unswayed by Bettencourt and ruled no demolition can take place before a new design is submitted that "flattens” the facade, includes more brick and eliminates much of the synthetic stucco.

Wilson also suggested the developers try to incorporate an antique boiler inside the building and the oldest part of the structure — the north facade facing the BPI parking lot.

John Sweeney, vice president of operations for Kusum Hospitality, said after the meeting his group is prepared to follow the committee's recommendations – including possible preservation of the dairy's north facade.

Sweeney said he also had read criticisms voiced on local online chat boards and forums.

"We're not going to build an eyesore,” Sweeney said. "We're relying on the local population, and we need the local population to like what we do. The Holiday Inn Express we're going to build will be built to last.”
Way to go, guys!

Here's the corresponding Journal Record article ... The Journal Record - Article (http://www.journalrecord.com/article.cfm?recid=86191)


Bricktown could get Holiday Inn Express
by Kelley Chambers
The Journal Record February 14, 2008

OKLAHOMA CITY – A hotel developer hopes to raze an unoccupied industrial building in Oklahoma City’s Bricktown district to make way for a 95-room Holiday Inn Express.

The building, at 101 E. Main St., is the former Steffen Ice Cream Co., which was built in 1917 and added to in phases over the years. The hotel would have four stories with about 55,000 square feet.

Alex Patel, the owner and developer, is proposing the project, which would cost between $8 million and $9 million to build.
But he may have a long road ahead in gaining approval to tear down the existing structure and build the hotel.

On Wednesday, Fred Quinn and Kip Bettencourt, of the architecture firm Quinn & Associates, presented initial plans and renderings for the hotel to the Bricktown Urban Design Committee.

The committee oversees all aspects of building and development in Bricktown.

Bettencourt said the project hinges on the demolition of the old Steffen’s building.

“We’re proposing that the demolition of the building be conditional upon the conceptual approval,” he said. “We obviously wouldn’t want to tear down a building without something to replace it with.”

Nevertheless, committee members voiced concern over tearing down the building and several aspects of the proposed hotel’s façade.
Bettencourt said plans now call for 61 percent brick on the exterior, which drew concern from committee members that it was not enough. There is no specific ordinance for how much brick a building in the district must contain.
“It concerns me that we would destroy this building that’s been there since 1917 and replace it with a busy footprint,” said Bob Bright, urban design committee member.

Patel, who also owns the Quality Inn Bricktown, at 1800 E. Reno Ave., east of Bricktown, said he has been looking at the district for a possible hotel for about four years.

After a conversation with Don Karchmer, owner of the Steffen’s building, Patel said he knew he had found the perfect site for a hotel.
“The site and the way it sits is one of the ideal locations for a hotel,” he said. “Most of the other buildings in Bricktown are close together and it’s hard to construct in such a small footprint.”

Patel added that every effort was made to keep and convert the existing building, but it was in too poor of shape to be worth saving.
“The inside of it is really in bad shape,” he said.
Tom Wilson, chairman of the committee, said he is quite familiar with the building, and that it is not structurally sound and most of the wooden roof is on the floor.

“I am in favor of keeping all the older buildings that we have in Bricktown and trying to re-use them,” Wilson said. “But it would seem this would really be a stretch.”

Patel said the hotel could also bring more moderately priced rooms to downtown and Bricktown, some of which can run upwards of $200 a night. The Holiday Inn would likely start at about $80 a night.

“We’re trying to appeal to a little lower price point than that,” Patel said. “We want Bricktown to be affordable for everyone.”
After the presentation by Quinn & Associates, the committee moved to grant a one-month continuance while the development team fine tunes the plans and adds more brick to the proposed façade.

Patel said his group will take the committee’s recommendations into consideration as they plan to move forward with the plan.
“We knew we were walking into a committee meeting and we’re not going to get a stamp of approval right away,” he said. “But the feedback they gave us was good to change our design concept to work for them and Bricktown as a whole.”

If the project receives final approval from Bricktown and the city, Patel said it could take between nine and 14 months to build.
“Our group is eager to get started,” he said. “The sooner the better, but we understand that it has to be done right.”

Here's a better image than the scan I made from the newspaper article ... newsprint doesn't scan well ... this is from the Oklahoman on-line archives, same picture ...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/bricktown/bricktownholidayinexpress.jpg

that's good news... hopefully the next design will be better suited to the area. one thing that i didn't understand, though, was suggesting that the new design include an 'antique boiler' from the original structure. i mean why bother? who is going to see that?


demolition of the building is not a certainty. committee members unanimously criticized the proposed design by quinn & associates, which included a facade of 61 percent brick and 49 percent synthetic stucco.

well... after reading this, i've got to hand it to those architects. they gave it 110%! : )

I don't think the design looks all that 'busy'.

^^
i can agree with that. the design would work for me if it included much less stucco and maybe a wash on the bricks to age them in appearance.

-M

Ugh, stucco...

Maybe if we renamed it StuccoTown people would use more brick?

"Kip Bettencourt, an architect with Quinn & Associates, defended the design and argued the use of synthetic stucco, commonly known as Exterior Insulation Finish Systems or EIFS, was not a matter of cost. Instead, he said, the material was included as a matter of good design.'I selected the amount of brick myself with architectural license,” Bettencourt said. "I felt that just slapping brick on this building for the sake of putting brick on it was inappropriate. These buildings were built at different times ... and that's how these things evolved and that's what I was trying to be true to.'”

OK, this guy had better go back to architecture school. What school considers EIFS as an improvement over brick? Bricktown may have evolved over time, but if he considers lower Bricktown the natural evolution of Bricktown, I'm concerned about his sense of aesthetics. Tudor houses have stucco between the half timbering sometimes, and Mediterranean houses are frequently stucco. Where else? And those houses have real stucco that ages and has a unique look. This sounds like spin on why he used cheaper materials, and I suspect the real reason is that they're cheap. Does anyone know if EIFS is really as expensive as brick? It's hard to believe that, especially if one takes labor costs into consideration.

EIFS can be more expensive than brick for the finish material. Usually you can save structural costs by using EIFS though but not always.

I understand his argument. I don't appreciate people trying to copy the past into the present in architecture. I prefer genuineness and creativity and trying to build something for the time.

I'm not at all certain a Holiday Inn Express belongs there though.

What is the average price of a hotel room in downtown? Couldn't this help lower our average and make us a more appealing convention city? Just a thought.

What is the average price of a hotel room in downtown? Couldn't this help lower our average and make us a more appealing convention city? Just a thought.
My experiences with Holiday Inn Express, though limited, has been good. I don't know downtown averages, but they are surely more than the range stated by the proponents of this plan. Hopefully, they'll come back with design changes that will be good and the project will proceed.

I disagree with the "too busy" and "flatten out" comments.

I think the design is good, if they would just do it all brick.

I prefer this design to a square brick box.

Square brick boxes are what make bricktown.

I like the idea of at least incorporating portions of the facade of the old building.

All brick is only boring if you just slap it on around rectangle windows. You only have to look around Bricktown to see how creative use of brick with stone (or even concrete) accents can make a very unique design.

I don't have major issues with the design they presented. Perhaps the main problem was the set back on the right side in the picture. The part on the corner looks good, but it appears to be set back maybe 20 feet as you go east.

Did I read correctly that they said 39 percent stucco on the original drawings? that seems awfully high. I hope they do all brick ultimately, or at least keep the stucco to a bare minimum...



www.unitedstatesofmichael.com

I'm assuming it meant 51% brick 49% stucco.

no, it said in the original short article 61-39

no, it said in the original short article 61-39

Actually, here's the original article quote:


Demolition of the building is not a certainty. Committee members unanimously criticized the proposed design by Quinn & Associates, which included a facade of 61 percent brick and 49 percent synthetic stucco.

That's why I'm assuming they meant 51% and 49%. Either that or 61% and 39%. But since they weren't pleased with the ratio, I assumed the former.

The Bricktown Urban Design Committee criticized the designs submitted by Kusum Hospitality, which include 39 percent synthetic stucco in the exterior facade. The committee also criticized the shape of the building proposed for 101 E Main, which members called “busy” and not in step with the old warehouse district.

Either way, it's too much.

Either way, it's too much.

Agreed!

The original short article said 39% stucco. I think the 49% was a typo on the second article.



By Steve Lackmeyer
Business Writer

Developers of a proposed Bricktown Holiday Inn Express were given tentative approval Wednesday to demolish an old dairy — but only if they get approval for the hotel design.

The Bricktown Urban Design Committee criticized the designs submitted by Kusum Hospitality, which include 39 percent synthetic stucco in the exterior facade. The committee also criticized the shape of the building proposed for 101 E Main, which members called “busy” and not in step with the old warehouse district.

Committee members agreed the existing building on the site, formerly Steffen’s Ice Cream, was beyond salvaging.

John Sweeney, vice president of operations for Kusum, promised to return to the committee next month with revised drawings that will include more brick and will better conform with district standards.

If the dairy building is really in bad disrepair, I'd be in favor of tearing it down, but only for the right building.

I think in the picture, the dark red represents brick, and the lighter colors in the middle represent the stucco. Why not just use a different color of brick in place of the stucco? You can still have differing colors in the facade using brick. I think that's where the architect is coming from....solid dark red brick would look boring, and the stucco gives you a color variation. Well, like I said, you can do the same thing by using different colors of brick.

Also, the structure may be a little too busy. I like some variation though, so I hope the architect doesn't just turn it into a big square box. Maybe flatten out the right side some, and we'll be set.

Maybe they need to go look at JDM Place. It is mostly brick, but the architect used concrete here and there to give some variation to the structure.

As for incorporating the old boiler and north side facade into the structure......I haven't seen it, so I don't know....it might be historically significant, and architecturally interesting.

In one of the old warehouse buildings in Wichita that they converted into a Courtyard by Marriott, they simply used the facade of the old warehouse building, and demolished the interior and rebuilt it up to 4-5 floors. That could be a possiblity here.

Go all brick or go home!

Here's a photo from 2007 (per county assessor):

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2735/R020025050001vA.jpg

There are other things you can do with brick: you can do portions in a herringbone or other pattern. Or, you can increase the number of windows or add some cast stone. If you look at the old dairy building, it's not an architectural marvel, but the all brick facade looks nice. I was driving downtown today and noticed the back of the Deep Deuce apartments are dark colored stucco like that shown in the Holiday Inn plan, and I think it's unattractive. I'm hoping that when the vice president of operations says "more brick and will better conform with district standards" he means "all brick".

Here's a photo from 2007 (per county assessor):

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2735/R020025050001vA.jpg

I wonder if the plant was still in use by Farm Fresh when that photo was taken or if its lot was just being used for parking. Does any one know when it was last used? I only know Farm Fresh was the last tenant but don't know when they shut down operations.

It's been unoccupied for years, so it was definitely vacant in that photo. It's just one block north of Sheridan and therefore a good place to park and walk to the Brewery or elsewhere.

I actually really like the southern facade of that building. I like how there is lots of variation and interest in the brick.

If they tear it down in favor of new construction, everything possible should be done to make the new structure look like it's been there for quite a while.

I actually really like the southern facade of that building. I like how there is lots of variation and interest in the brick.

If they tear it down in favor of new construction, everything possible should be done to make the new structure look like it's been there for quite a while.

I agree on both points.

One way to definately make it stand out and look new is EIFS, which is not the direction things need to go in Bricktown.

If keeping the facade is cost prohibitive, how about the design committee insisting that the design be maintained or at least most of the detailed brickwork be duplicated on that exposure?

They could also use used brick to obtain a more period feel.

All the buildings around there are renovated brick structures. No matter how nice, a modern-looking structure is going to look very out of place at that location and detract from the character of the district -- especially since it will be taller and larger than most.

If not for cost, then why do brick and stucco seem to be the only two options for building exteriors in Bricktown? Is there no one around who has the expertise to work with the paneling surfaces or other modern options that have gained popularity around the world and in other U.S. cities?

Here are two holiday inn expresses from Europe:

Note the use of paneling here. Incorporating these types of resin/composite/metal board accents with brick structures would look cool in bricktown, I think. The blue glass might also be a nice contrast to the deep red of brick, as it is to the crimson paneling here:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/wsucougz/holiday-inn-express-swiss-cottage.jpg

Another interesting one:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/wsucougz/holiday_inn_express1.jpg

I really like the second hotel posted above. Something like that would work. It has a very traditional feel, and yet there's a contemporary take on it.

I really like the second hotel posted above. Something like that would work. It has a very traditional feel, and yet there's a contemporary take on it.


I agree, betts. The second picture would make for a perfect match with that lot in Bricktown. I was sorry to hear that the Steffen's building is unsalvagable, but something like this would fit nicely.

wsucougz: Thanks for finding and posting the pics. Nice finds.

Very very nice, wsucoug, especially the 2nd image ... perfect!

I've always imagined Core to Shore having a look similar to that first rendering. Reminds me also of designs of some East Wharf buildings.

Isn't everything in Bricktown proper -- apart from the top two floors of the new Hampton Inn -- completely brick or painted brick?

And haven't all the newer buildings had a historic feel to them?

Everything except the ugly looking red painted parking garage next to the ballpark.

Yes, I think most will agree that garage is a monstrosity.

My point is that everything within that district is pretty much made of brick and is either old or has architectural elements that recall an earlier period -- like the ballpark.

I would not be in favor of bringing in modern-looking architecture within the Bricktown district. There is plenty of room for that in Lower BT and everywhere else... I'd really like to see BT proper keep the old-time feel to it. That's what makes it special in the first place.

I'm not talking about bringing in modern architecture such as what was pictured above in the first picture above, although I believe the 2nd, in red, would fit. I'm only suggesting bringing in other facade materials, some of which are commonly seen in more modern buildings, to combine with brick instead of the usual stucco.

Although I don't think it would be a stretch to incorporate some modern into bricktown, as long as it takes style cues from the past. Take something like this, for instance:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/wsucougz/modern_brick_building.jpg

In many ways, modern architecture in the context of a historic district can actually help. By having the obviously new architecture in this context, it celebrates what is not new. It creates contrast and a distinction between old and new. Developers will never be able to replicate the look of the old warehouses. They will always look like cheap imitation. No matter how much brick ends up on the HIE, it will never look like the other brick warehouses. Just my $0.02.

Yes, I think most will agree that garage is a monstrosity.

My point is that everything within that district is pretty much made of brick and is either old or has architectural elements that recall an earlier period -- like the ballpark.

I would not be in favor of bringing in modern-looking architecture within the Bricktown district. There is plenty of room for that in Lower BT and everywhere else... I'd really like to see BT proper keep the old-time feel to it. That's what makes it special in the first place.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/wsucougz/holiday_inn_express1.jpg

Pete, Just so I am clear about your viewpoint, you don't like this design? Are you thinking more of something like this with the top "sliced off" and less glass in the corner entrance? Something like that - but toned down?

Agreed, and at the risk of getting waaaay off point, I'm going to post some other examples that I think would look cool in Bricktown:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/wsucougz/modern_brick_buliding_4.jpg

Proposed Denver infill:
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/wsucougz/modern_brick_building_6.jpg

If the white was red:
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/wsucougz/modern_brick_building_5.jpg

Pretty modern - a stretch?
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/wsucougz/modern_brick_building_3.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/wsucougz/modern_brick_building_2.jpg

As long as the red brick tie-in is there, I think we can get a lot more creative in Bricktown, to a point.

You make good points, cougar. The philosophical differences arise when Bricktown is placed in its historical context and not just the architecture. How far can you get away from Venice - in Venice? We have so little to actually preserve that introducing concepts that venture too far from the ambiance of the historical equation could completely destroy the cultural fabric going forward. To me, I like the design of the HIE in the picture in the post above (brick and glass corner entrance), but anything much more than that (more glass and modern design elements) may push it. Maybe the one I like pushes it. It's a tricky balance and one that deserves careful consideration.

Exactly, Cougar.

Just so I am clear about your viewpoint, you don't like this design? Are you thinking more of something like this with the top "sliced off" and less glass in the corner entrance? Something like that - but toned down?

No, I don't like it at all and think it would not be inappropriate for what is marketed as a historical district.

All the renderings shown would work well on the properties surrounding Bricktown but I think the relatively small area that constitutes the actual district should be developed/redeveloped with architecture that reflects that period.

I think this should be especially true when someone is proposing to tear down something that *is* historical. It would be a very bad trend to demolish authentic buildings in that area and replace with metal and reflective glass IMO.

I think the Denver rendering is historical enough.

They should preserve the old facade and build the new hotel within the confines of the old facade.

Yes, the one Denver rendering would be the only one I would choose.

I love the other designs, just not for those few blocks in Bricktown.

They should preserve the old facade and build the new hotel within the confines of the old facade.

Agreed. Don't get me wrong, that's what I'd most like to see happen as well. It doesn't sound terribly promising, though.

It would be a very bad trend to demolish authentic buildings in that area and replace with metal and reflective glass IMO.

I'm talking about pulling in different styles, preferably incorporating the existing structure. What about Nonna's? I think it's the best looking structure in Bricktown, and definitely has some flair to it, though I have no idea what it looked like before.

I guess my point is that not everything has to be: here's a box with some brick and some stucco, give or take a percentage of each. What about incorporating reclaimed brick or timers or hardwoods? anything outside of this narrow line of thinking.

Other cities have sensitive historic districts. The continuity of the district can be preserved in unique and interesting ways.

The holiday inn express design, anywhere near as-is, has 0 imagination, and would be another blown opportunity. So I ask, how many more of those can Bricktown withstand without adversely affecting the character and quality of the district?

It looks like they want yet another structure which would be at home at just about any interstate exit in the country.

I'm talking about pulling in different styles, preferably incorporating the existing structure. What about Nonna's? I think it's the best looking structure in Bricktown, and definitely has some flair to it, though I have no idea what it looked like before.

I guess my point is that not everything has to be: here's a box with some brick and some stucco, give or take a percentage of each. What about incorporating reclaimed brick or timers or hardwoods? anything outside of this narrow line of thinking.

Other cities have sensitive historic districts. The continuity of the district can be preserved in unique and interesting ways.

The holiday inn express design, anywhere near as-is, has 0 imagination, and would be another blown opportunity. So I ask, how many more of those can Bricktown withstand without adversely affecting the character and quality of the district?
Good point about Nonna's ...

http://cache.marriott.com/propertyimages/o/okcdt/phototour/okcdt_phototour35.jpg

Pretty cool warehouse, if you ask me! Maybe a New Orleans warehouse? ;)

I think Avis pulled some pretty interesting classy modern designs into what used to be just a plain ole big box warehouse, while still at the same time preserving the old warehouse. I like the alternating colors at night, and the 2nd floor outdoors patio.

The developers of this Holiday Inn Express need to try to blend their hotel in with the surrounding area, but at the same time, make it stand out, and make it look modernistic....similar to what Nonna's did. Bricktown is not a place for franchise style designs. They can go to Memorial Rd. or NW Expressway if they want to build that. What makes Bricktown unique are its restaurants located within old warehouse buildings.

If they want to build a franchise hotel, maybe they should do it in Lower Bricktown, or elsewhere in downtown.

I still like the variation of colors in their drawings, but maybe do it with different colors of brick. Just look at JC Penney at Penn Square Mall....they used different colors of brick to give a unique pattern.

Here's a hotel my wife and I stayed at recently in Wichita's Old Town, which is similar to Bricktown, only with retail. They converted an old warehouse into a pretty classy hotel:

Hotel at Old Town - (http://www.hotelatoldtown.com/)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1201/1369759362_e84f09953c.jpg

http://www.averyphoto.com/card35.jpg

The Courtyard by Marriott at Old Town in Wichita is located in an old spanish style warehouse. The original facade still exists on the front...first two levels. They added on the upper two floors. I'm not hip in the stucco they used here, but it does blend in well with the original facade....which was Spanish style stucco.

http://cache.marriott.com/propertyimages/i/ictdt/ictdt_phototour/ictdt_phototour07.jpg

I don't see why they couldn't retain the facade of the dairy building, and rebuild the inside, and add on a couple of levels, to match the bottom two levels, like they did with this warehouse building in Wichita.

I dislike the idea of trying to make replicas or build copies. The buildings when they were built fit the place and the time. It was a warehouse, industrial area then. Now it is an entertainment area. There should be a look and feel that is maintained but that, at least to me, should mean something more than copying.

I'm not sure a hotel should go there at all but if it should the entire idea of warehousing humans should be avoided.

That's why we should retain the facade of the old dairy building....that way we wouldn't be copying. Just rebuild the inside, and add on a few floors on the top.

What do you mean by warehousing humans? Ummm....it's a historic warehouse district, not Belle Isle Wannabe Station.