The NFL is a financial black hole for everyone except the NFL, and almost every city is being held hostage by them. That is a poison pill OKC would be better off not swallowing.

lol of course you feel that way ...

The NFL would work in the middle of no where it is by far the most popular sport in the Country ....... and it is 9 games a year .. just need a deca billionaire to buy a team and move it here .. because the NFL is never expanding to okc

EXACTLY, NFL is only a handfull of home games and OKC sells out both OU and OSU, there's football fans in Oklahoma esp when you consider the 4 million people in the state. Also, with NFL you'd have catchment market just like you do with the NBA. OKC's NBA catchment is more than 15 million people (OK, most of Ark, most of KS, most of MO, E half of NE); those are all the cable markets that subscribe to the OKC thunder, now while NFL wouldn't be as big of a catchment it also isn't as many games.

NFL in OKC is totally doable, all that's missing is a stadium and an ownership group. NFL draws corporate sponsors globally (as does the NBA) so OKC's relative lack there isn't a big deal. Just need the will of OKC to build a stadium combined with an owner who wants to buy and move a team (and there are some out there). As I stated, NFL is next for OKC aside from MLS; that's probably the sweet spot for OKC in terms of major league teams. Tulsa is destined for NHL in 10-15 years; that would give Oklahoma 4 teams in the big 5 major leagues, 5 if you could Oklahoma City Spark WFP.

As for OKC's support of the NBA, have you paid attention to the prizes offered by the OKC Thunder and the game experience? Compare that to other so-called small but more mature markets? OKC swings like a major market by comparison, must be doing well here. Oh, and the 'rebuild' is over if you haven't noticed.

EXACTLY, NFL is only a handfull of home games and OKC sells out both OU and OSU, there's football fans in Oklahoma esp when you consider the 4 million people in the state. Also, with NFL you'd have catchment market just like you do with the NBA. OKC's NBA catchment is more than 15 million people (OK, most of Ark, most of KS, most of MO, E half of NE); those are all the cable markets that subscribe to the OKC thunder, now while NFL wouldn't be as big of a catchment it also isn't as many games.

NFL in OKC is totally doable, all that's missing is a stadium and an ownership group. NFL draws corporate sponsors globally (as does the NBA) so OKC's relative lack there isn't a big deal. Just need the will of OKC to build a stadium combined with an owner who wants to buy and move a team (and there are some out there). As I stated, NFL is next for OKC aside from MLS; that's probably the sweet spot for OKC in terms of major league teams. Tulsa is destined for NHL in 10-15 years; that would give Oklahoma 4 teams in the big 5 major leagues, 5 if you could Oklahoma City Spark WFP.

As for OKC's support of the NBA, have you paid attention to the prizes offered by the OKC Thunder and the game experience? Compare that to other so-called small but more mature markets? OKC swings like a major market by comparison, must be doing well here. Oh, and the 'rebuild' is over if you haven't noticed.

The Denver Bronchos sold for just under $6 billion and the Washington Commanders are probably going to be close to $8 billion when they sell within the next year-ish. Add in $2 billion for a stadium and we are looking at $8 to 10 billion spent to bring a team to Oklahoma. Plus OU, OSU and the Dallas Cowboys having to agree it isn't going to hurt any of them financially.

I don't see any way that could happen.

The Denver Bronchos sold for just under $6 billion and the Washington Commanders are probably going to be close to $8 billion when they sell within the next year-ish. Add in $2 billion for a stadium and we are looking at $8 to 10 billion spent to bring a team to Oklahoma. Plus OU, OSU and the Dallas Cowboys having to agree it isn't going to hurt any of them financially.

I don't see any way that could happen.

the cowboys yes would have to agree OU and osu woudn't have any say at all ...


and of course the need for some one with strong Oklahoma ties wanting to spend 5+ billion dollars to buy a team and want want to try to move it .. it is not going to happen ..

the cowboys yes would have to agree OU and osu woudn't have any say at all ...


and of course the need for some one with strong Oklahoma ties wanting to spend 5+ billion dollars to buy a team and want want to try to move it .. it is not going to happen ..

You think anyone in Oklahoma spending that kinda money wouldn't care what OU or OSU said?

If Presti will ever pull his head out of butt with how he is managing talent, the Thunder might actually get to doing something again. And that helps everyone as the team is more popular.


This is maybe the worst take on the Thunder I have ever seen here and that is saying something. I appreciate that you would like the team to win more games, but you are ****ting on one of the best general managers in basketball. The Thunder being more popular is not going to bring an NFL team here. No local billionaire or group of billionaires is going to force a team here, the NFL is not coming to Oklahoma.

This is maybe the worst take on the Thunder I have ever seen here and that is saying something. I appreciate that you would like the team to win more games, but you are ****ting on one of the best general managers in basketball. The Thunder being more popular is not going to bring an NFL team here. No local billionaire or group of billionaires is going to force a team here, the NFL is not coming to Oklahoma.

yes and yes

You think anyone in Oklahoma spending that kinda money wouldn't care what OU or OSU said?

I don’t think either party would have much of a say in the matter. Just like they had no say when Clay and Aubrey acquired the rights to the Thunder.

Granted, this is all a bit moot as the NFL/ownership groups would have a number of cities it would prioritize over OKC if it were to expand.

Not sure why this thread keeps diverging to pie in the sky talk. Even if that pie materializes, the odds of a stadium being built at crossroads are low.

Well we had gotten back on topic about Crossroads, and then it went down the rabbit hole again.


So about that Crossroads Mall....

Not sure why this thread keeps diverging to pie in the sky talk. Even if that pie materializes, the odds of a stadium being built at crossroads are low.

NFL at Crossroads is actually the most viable thing that can happen there. Interstate junctions don't attract adjact freeway- focused development except maybe the occasional truck stop.

NFL at Crossroads is actually the most viable thing that can happen there. Interstate junctions don't attract adjact freeway- focused development except maybe the occasional truck stop.

Well now with Tulsa King production gone, there is no chance to have Crossroads in an episode where the Tulsa King buys his own mall and arena football team to hide the true nature of his operations. lol

Well now with Tulsa King production gone, there is no chance to have Crossroads in an episode where the Tulsa King buys his own mall and arena football team to hide the true nature of his operations. lol

that actually leads into a conversation i was having with someone not to long ago who suggested that if the current Prairie Studios (former Cox site) is chosen for the next Thunder Arena, that they should buy and take over crossroads and turn it into a studio space.

The Denver Bronchos sold for just under $6 billion and the Washington Commanders are probably going to be close to $8 billion when they sell within the next year-ish. Add in $2 billion for a stadium and we are looking at $8 to 10 billion spent to bring a team to Oklahoma. Plus OU, OSU and the Dallas Cowboys having to agree it isn't going to hurt any of them financially.

I don't see any way that could happen.

4.65 billion dollars is not almost 6 billion. Its hard to imagine truly thinking OKC will every have an NFL team. It is never happening. But USFL would be cool!

that actually leads into a conversation i was having with someone not to long ago who suggested that if the current Prairie Studios (former Cox site) is chosen for the next Thunder Arena, that they should buy and take over crossroads and turn it into a studio space.

Does it have large enough contiguous uninterrupted space to do that? The columns in those department stores get in the way of anything of any size being done. Not sure the department stores are constructed in a way that they could remove the floors for the needed ceiling height, without compromising the structural integrity.

About the only existing space i can think of that would do that, is the main central areas. Rip out the stores and the second floor, and then you have a good amount of space. But honestly, you'd get a better product constructing a big metal box in the parking lot somewhere. At least the Myriad was already set up for high voltage electrical with the trade show stuff that happened in the meeting spaces. And of course the arena was set up for it. But the mall spaces are definitely no. Not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, but it was built as a mall, and it's just not good for much else.

I went by there this (Saturday) morning and there appears to be no activity at all on the old JC Penney building where plans had been submitted months ago for an Asian warehouse market and food court.

I think the mall management is a possible scam, one of the managers has had some sketchy oscn listed issues in their past. I really was wanting a revival of the mall but it looks like so many scams and issues, changed stories and upset tenants posting their experiences on social media, I believe this is dead before it even opened. I went to the antique store there recently and even the vendors inside the antique store told me the stories keep changing on what all the mall is going to be inside. Now there is talk of a weekend flea market style with outdoor events like, carnivals, festivals etc. who knows what will be of the mall in the end just hope its not going to continue to be an endless mystery

I don't think the ownership and leasing is a scam, it's just that they aren't spending the money to do much and so it's taking forever to get the HVAC operational and the place cleaned up.

My take on this is that the couple doing the leasing first leased the old Dillards from the new owners for their cannabis event center, then struck a deal with him to serve as leasing agents. They've tried to do a lot of the work themselves which says much about the investment being made.

You can see who they have announced as tenants. Also, before a new state law was rushed through due to this exact property (and because OKCTalk made the plans public), the new owner was set to lease the ground floor of Dillards to a cannabis grow facility. Based on all this, it wood be a good idea to temper any expectations.

Well looks like the mall part is dead. The people who was running the crossroads convention center and also being tied with the mall management is now saying they are not part of the mall area and have nothing to do with it and there has not been anymore talk about the mall on their page which they use to hype it all the time. Well hopefully the Asian part still is planned but nothing has progressed it seems on that as well. Does anyone have any updates on that part?

Is this the third time a plan to revive the mall has failed? I think it’s time to doze the entire plot and build a Medieval Times. That’s a fun place to go every now and then.

Well looks like the mall part is dead. The people who was running the crossroads convention center and also being tied with the mall management is now saying they are not part of the mall area and have nothing to do with it and there has not been anymore talk about the mall on their page which they use to hype it all the time. Well hopefully the Asian part still is planned but nothing has progressed it seems on that as well. Does anyone have any updates on that part?

It's interesting to scroll back through that page. After they got called out for the multiple delays, they stopped posting about the mall in February. Two days after recreational cannabis failed, they posted a picture saying this is what 'victory looks like' and have been posting heavily since then about Chronic Brands, Chronic Palooza and pretending like they had nothing to do with the mall part. Apparently, there are pop-up shops and food trucks. Has anyone been to see if they have more or fewer vendors than a farmers market or flea market?

It seems doubtful that the Asian part is still planned. The owner(s) of the mall let the chronic couple ruin their reputation.

Construction has started on the Friendship Gate.

The operators of the mall told me they plan to reopen in mid-November.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/crossroads100822a.jpg



Did they ever finish this? Or is there a Chronic Brands and Micro Mania Wrestling banner hanging from the unfinished frame?

The mall is dead. Give it up. The only question is when it gets leveled.

^^ Absolutely. I've thought this for a very long time.

I was literally thinking today the noise on this "project" had gone suddenly and conspicuously silent.

The handwriting has been on the wall for a long time.

At best, we'll see the old Penneys redeveloped into the Asian warehouse market and food court.

I'll get out there and check to see if any of that work has started, but there have been zero signs of movement on each of my many visits over the last year.

Crossroads mall really needs to be bulldozed and build something useful, I miss the mall but it is honestly an eyesore now

Yeah it's not exactly the most aesthetically pleasing building in the world.

I was talking to a friend of mine about this property specifically and what the best use was and the we agreed that a hospital needs to buy the land, tear it down and building a hospital here. The problem is that there is a Mercy primary care a few miles to the east and Integris a few miles to the NW. Or can someone get a Buc-ee's brought in here?

Reminder that Crossroads is in the hands of two private entities: Santa Fe Charter Schools (the two old department stores on the north and east sides plus all the related parking) and this Chinese owner based in Utah who owns the rest.

The property has been for sale several times and these were the buyers we got.

It's very hard to imagine anyone buying these owners out... And for what? Nobody has any idea what to do with the property. The best use would probably be an industrial/distribution complex similar to what the city is undertaking on the other side of I-240. But even that is now going to have to compete with all the public subsidies being spent on that city property.

Reminder that Crossroads is in the hands of two private entities: Santa Fe Charter Schools (the two old department stores on the north and east sides plus all the related parking) and this Chinese owner based in Utah who owns the rest.

The property has been for sale several times and these were the buyers we got.

It's very hard to imagine anyone buying these owners out... And for what? Nobody has any idea what to do with the property. The best use would probably be an industrial/distribution complex similar to what the city is undertaking on the other side of I-240. But even that is now going to have to compete with all the public subsidies being spent on that city property.

I'm still holding out hope for a mixed-use transit oriented development here... Given it's proximity to the BNSF line from Edmond to Norman that the RTA wants to run commuter rail over, this would make a perfect area for a stop on the southside. Of course it remains to be seen whether the RTA's efforts with commuter rail will be successful (but if I'm being honest I hope they are). But that also means that any such development is still years away.

Or can someone get a Buc-ee's brought in here?

This actually is one of the best suggestions for this property that I have heard.

^^^Yes!

Good ideas and suggestions:

Hospital clinics or extensions, make alterations for extensions for community college classrooms, University extension classrooms, charter/private schools and a mega cafeteria food court open to the public.

You could bring this mall back to life.

Things are looking really grim, even with low expectations.

Very little movement on the Friendship Gate over the last several months; not sure if it is completely stalled. Will be quite small regardless.

No activity at the old Penneys which makes me wonder if the Asian warehouse market and foot court are still going to happen.

There is a sign for the 'convention center' in the old Dillards but no signs of activity.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/crossroads040923a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/crossroads040923b.jpg

Went with a group of friends to see Scream VI on opening night last month at the AMC just to the south of the mall, and it was probably the most depressing theatre experience that I can remember.

Went with a group of friends to see Scream VI on opening night last month at the AMC just to the south of the mall, and it was probably the most depressing theatre experience that I can remember.

We go there occasionally. It is what it is. We like that it is never busy and that the movies are cheaper than the nicer theaters but are still first run.

Interesting concept for an old mall:

Old Milwaukee mall is transformed into stunning apartment complex (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/old-milwaukee-mall-transformed-stunning-175319532.html)

(apologies for the click baity / tiktoky nature of the article, and if it's been discussed before)

Interesting concept for an old mall:

Old Milwaukee mall is transformed into stunning apartment complex (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/old-milwaukee-mall-transformed-stunning-175319532.html)

(apologies for the click baity / tiktoky nature of the article, and if it's been discussed before)

That mall is in the middle of their downtown; I've been in it. Milwaukee is one of the few mid-sized cities that maintained a large amount of housing in their core throughout the urban renewal wave of the 60s and 70s. Marquette is within walking distance.

I'm having a very hard time imagining anyone willing to pay the rent that would come from any renovation or new construction where Crossroads is located. And I'm having a hard time imagining anyone making any large investment in this site which is why it keeps getting bounced between a bunch of less-than-half-assed redevelopers.

Bulldoze it, build an OnCue and a rest stop.

What is so special about Buc-ee's?

Bulldoze it, build an OnCue and a rest stop.

Eh...we have plenty of gas stations so we do not need another one and besides, 7-11 is a block away from the mall

That mall is in the middle of their downtown; I've been in it. Milwaukee is one of the few mid-sized cities that maintained a large amount of housing in their core throughout the urban renewal wave of the 60s and 70s. Marquette is within walking distance.

I'm having a very hard time imagining anyone willing to pay the rent that would come from any renovation or new construction where Crossroads is located. And I'm having a hard time imagining anyone making any large investment in this site which is why it keeps getting bounced between a bunch of less-than-half-assed redevelopers.

Agree. I don't see anything like that happening at Crossroads, either. It does seem like something grand and unique is needed to make it relevant again, but I don't see that kind of money being dropped on it anytime soon, If only there was some sort of instrument the city could use to help with rejuvenating blighted areas / properties...

What is so special about Buc-ee's?

Nothing.

What is so special about Buc-ee's?

If you'd been to one, you'd know. They're awesome.

If you'd been to one, you'd know. They're awesome.

If Kirklands, Walmart and Oncue had a threesome...

Build the MAPS4 stadium there, not everything has to be in downtown, a project like that will help bring more energy to this area.

There is no way the MAPS 4 Stadium will succeed if built here. It’s going to have to be lifted up by its surroundings rather than the other way around. The Energy could barely get 2,500/game by the end of their run at Taft (granted, some of that was due to horrible ownership), and Taft’s surroundings were an entertainment oasis relative to this part of OKC. Now consider that under the very best-case scenario for the opening of the MAPS 4 Stadium, we will have a USL team that is starting from scratch with a new ownership group. Worst case, we’ll still have Prodigal who have alienated the Energy fanbase to the point that there will probably be active boycotts of any games so long as they still own the team. It’s just not a situation where you can build a stadium in hopes of revitalizing a blighted area.

Nothing.

Um, their bbq sandwich is special. 😊

What is so special about Buc-ee's?

There beef jerky game is spot on. The sandwiches and the sliced meat and cheese trays in deli are great. The fudge selection is amazing. Coffee and ice tea selections are weak though compared to QT,

Eh...we have plenty of gas stations so we do not need another one and besides, 7-11 is a block away from the mall

Unfortunately, there can never be enough gas stations. But yeah I get your point.

Also, I wouldn't put 7-11 gasoline in my lawnmower let alone one of my vehicles. On Cue has the highest quality fuel in the metro (besides RS Fuels on Memorial).

Um, their bbq sandwich is special. 😊

I appreciate the fact they are clean stores that offer a lot at one stop. I know quite a few people who have an affinity for one thing or another that they offer. Nothing they have on hand has ever just blown me away, but I have never felt like I got less than what I paid for. I will concede that is special to a degree, I just don't buy into the cult following of certain service stations personally.

The interstate junction is a huge liability for this spot and will get worse over the next few years. If anything is to ever be successful here it will have to down-play its proximity to the interstates. Just look around OKC (or the entire US for that matter) and find a thriving interstate junction that derives its vibrancy from the interstate.

I always thought that even when it was a thriving mall the access and egress to and from it from either interstate was rather convoluted.

Does anybody remember the name of the crafter mall store in Crossroads in the early 90s?

MJ Designs?
Crossroads FB says big announcement regarding entertainment coming. Lol

MJ Designs?
Crossroads FB says big announcement regarding entertainment coming. Lol
Well if it has anything to do with the Crossroads Convention center then it will be a joke. Whatever happened to the asian market going in that was suppose to be opened by now? I just seems anything to do with crossroads mall is fake news announcements or scams these past few years

Well if it has anything to do with the Crossroads Convention center then it will be a joke. Whatever happened to the asian market going in that was suppose to be opened by now? I just seems anything to do with crossroads mall is fake news announcements or scams these past few years

I think that is why there are many of us skeptical about the theme park development announced outside of Vinita.

I have many fond memories of Crossroads as a kid through my early 20’s having been a Southside kid. The area is blighted and the 240/35 interchange is the worst. Add to the fact that malls (having worked in them most of my adult life) are not going to be anything like they were before the pandemic (2019 was a banner year for some companies), they should just demo all but the school. That mall in any form will never be a top tier place and I believe that the people that own/manage it are running scams as well.

Did all the people who supposedly rented spaces for "new stores" in Crossroads ever actually rent anything? Did money change hands? Or was that all just part of the orchestrated media BS from the mall's new "owners?"