I know everyone wants any stadium to be "downtown", or as close as possible. But wouldn't the Fairgrounds be a good place for it? HUGE mounts of parking. HUGE amounts of unused space. Maybe one reason I think this is because it seems all we've been doing is taking things OUT of the Fairgrounds. SO much so, that it just seems like a big parking lot now.

Agreed. Put it in the southwest corner of the Fairgrounds, right up against I-44 between Reno and the railroad so it's highly visible. There's plenty of undeveloped land there for the stadium plus new paved parking, and those parking lots could also be used for the fair and other events. The southern part of Delmar Gardens Ave might need to be rerouted or closed to make this work, but it seems like a win-win to locate this stadium there.

the only way OKC would get the NFL is the same way OKC got the NBA (okc was never getting an expansion franchise) a local Billionaire buys a team and moves it here .. and if that happened the City / county/ state would 100% help build a stadium ..

Would also add that raw seating numbers, like in basketball, don’t mean as much as they did several years ago. No one would expect OKC to build a 75,000 seat football stadium

What is this thread about again? :ot:

the only way OKC would get the NFL is the same way OKC got the NBA (okc was never getting an expansion franchise) a local Billionaire buys a team and moves it here .. and if that happened the City / county/ state would 100% help build a stadium ..

which is what I said, but apparently I'm sniffing glue. ...

NFL is a moving target. Sure we are similar to Jacksonville in a few demographics.

We would need four crucial things to support NFL:


1. Ownership,
2. Corporate base
3. Market support (Population/TV viewership),
4. Stadium

A feasibility study would quickly show that OKC doesn't meet any of that criteria to support NFL (Would love to have an NFL team).

We need to solidify the NBA in OKC. A new NBA spec arena is our next objective, IMO we will achieve that goal.

NFL is a moving target. Sure we are similar to Jacksonville in a few demographics.

We would need four crucial things to support NFL:


1. Ownership,
2. Corporate base
3. Market support (Population/TV viewership),
4. Stadium

A feasibility study would quickly show that OKC doesn't meet any of that criteria to support NFL (Would love to have an NFL team).

We need to solidify the NBA in OKC. A new NBA spec arena is our next objective, IMO we will achieve that goal.

the NFL works in just about any city in the United States .. it would work in OKC .. currently it also wont happen

What is this thread about again? :ot:

To be fair, the NFL is far more interesting than a dead empty mall.

To be fair, the NFL is far more interesting than a dead empty mall.

True, but that should be covered in another thread where people would actually know what they might be reading about before looking at it.0

My observation of Crossroads Mall's demise was attributed to a lot of things from the high profile of gangs, they chose to use the mall
as their stage--started the death spiral. Crime and theft left its decay on this once vibrant mall.

The Mall needed renovations and new shops, tenants disappeared one after another. Then, the larger anchor tenants slowly disappeared.

Such a sad ending for Crossroads Mall.

which is what I said, but apparently I'm sniffing glue. ...

Glue or paint, I am not an expert on the difference.

could have fooled me.

Looks like crossroads mall is having issues , now the football team isn't going there and multiple tenants are demanding refunds and saying they got scammed and the mall is not opening anytime soon etc. The crossroads convention Facebook page is now bashing the football league and also if your type crossroads convention on Facebook you will see tenants complaining about the management and saying how there is a criminal history behind the management and demanding refunds. So it looks like the mall is done before it even opened

Yeah, apparently they were doing business with the fake wranglers. A Chinese owner will probably pull the plug now.

The whole deal sounds fishy. The 'property manager' has an ambiguously defined business relationship with the owner. Sounds like an episode of joe exotic.

Tear it down and re zone the area for Residential or mix uses.

Tear it down and re zone the area for Residential or mix uses.

This would honestly be for the best. I don't think anything meaningful will come out of this property in our lifetime otherwise.

What's the status on the supermarket / Sam's club like store? If that is stalled than there is very little hope of success. There is no credibility at this point. I wouldn't want to sign into any kind of lease with an opening date that keeps getting pushed back. They misled store owners about the state of the mall. It obviously wasn't up to code to open otherwise why not open the doors? I feel bad for anyone who spent money to build out their store thinking the mall was going to actually open last October.

Nothing is wrong with Crossroads Mall other than it needs good ownership and management.

Aren't there charter schools occupying some of the buildings there and Bob Howard Parts?

Nothing is wrong with Crossroads Mall other than it needs good ownership and management.

I guess good owners and managers don't feel it's a good risk.

Aren't there charter schools occupying some of the buildings there and Bob Howard Parts?

Santa Fe charter schools occupy two of the old department stores (on the east and north sides).

The new Utah-based owner owns the remainder, including the west and south department stores and the mall itself.

He had proposed an Asian grocery warehouse and food court for the west department store (formerly JC Penney).

A local couple heavily involved in the cannabis industry (Carrie and Wallace Lawrence) is working to convert the south store (former Dillards) into a convention center. They are also the people working with the owner to rent out the mall spaces.


The best I can tell:

1. The Lawrences have been supervising the cleanup of the mall itself and serving as leasing directors. They have acquired a bunch of deposits from local businesses and there is restlessness because the mall reopening keeps getting delayed. They had originally hoped to open last November, then it was shifted to February. It doesn't seem like they have a firm open date.

2. Some of the businesses are now demanding their deposits back. The owner of Ragin Cajun (Latrice McMillian) is one and she has been posting all types of info to the R.C. Facebook page claiming the Lawrences are scammers. However, it does appear that Ragin Cajun did ultimately get their deposit back. Still, there is an on-going online feud between McMillian and the Lawrences.

3. The person that claimed to be representing the OKC Wranglers for the new outdoor stadium in the Crossroads parking lot appears to be a fraud. I don't know the status of the team in general, but it appears they will not be building the stadium at Crossroads. Carrie Lawrence claims that this guy (Joe McClendon) was charging people for a team tryout but has been merely pocketing the money.

4. The mall owner has started work on the Asian Friendship Arch on the north side of the property. I was told they were starting soon on the Penney's space but need to get down there and see if anything is happening. They filed for their building permits and operate a similar store in Utah.

The charter school should have taken the rest of the property the could have built a auditorium in one win and a gymnasium and a pool in the other wing.

Doesn't seem like the owner ultimately care what happens with the rest of the mall space. They have their vision of the Asian grocery warehouse with everything else just being 'filler' space.

Looks like crossroads mall is having issues , now the football team isn't going there and multiple tenants are demanding refunds and saying they got scammed and the mall is not opening anytime soon etc. The crossroads convention Facebook page is now bashing the football league and also if your type crossroads convention on Facebook you will see tenants complaining about the management and saying how there is a criminal history behind the management and demanding refunds. So it looks like the mall is done before it even opened

I'm not sure why but when I saw an interview of the lady running the mall, I got some odd vibes.

My post about some of the buildings being occupied was directed to the suggestion to tear it down and rezone it for residential.

Santa Fe charter schools occupy two of the old department stores (on the east and north sides).

The new Utah-based owner owns the remainder, including the west and south department stores and the mall itself.

He had proposed an Asian grocery warehouse and food court for the west department store (formerly JC Penney).

A local couple heavily involved in the cannabis industry (Carrie and Wallace Lawrence) is working to convert the south store (former Dillards) into a convention center. They are also the people working with the owner to rent out the mall spaces.


The best I can tell:

1. The Lawrences have been supervising the cleanup of the mall itself and serving as leasing directors. They have acquired a bunch of deposits from local businesses and there is restlessness because the mall reopening keeps getting delayed. They had originally hoped to open last November, then it was shifted to February. It doesn't seem like they have a firm open date.

2. Some of the businesses are now demanding their deposits back. The owner of Ragin Cajun (Latrice McMillian) is one and she has been posting all types of info to the R.C. Facebook page claiming the Lawrences are scammers. However, it does appear that Ragin Cajun did ultimately get their deposit back. Still, there is an on-going online feud between McMillian and the Lawrences.

3. The person that claimed to be representing the OKC Wranglers for the new outdoor stadium in the Crossroads parking lot appears to be a fraud. I don't know the status of the team in general, but it appears they will not be building the stadium at Crossroads. Carrie Lawrence claims that this guy (Joe McClendon) was charging people for a team tryout but has been merely pocketing the money.

4. The mall owner has started work on the Asian Friendship Arch on the north side of the property. I was told they were starting soon on the Penney's space but need to get down there and see if anything is happening. They filed for their building permits and operate a similar store in Utah.

Are the people in this story the same Carrie and Wallace Lawrence? If so, I'd also be worried if I were invested in their business.

https://www.news9.com/story/5e3500e1e0c96e774b36aa21/consumer-watch-helps-put-scammer-away

This whole thing sounds like a total disaster. Maybe not on the scale of the Custino's saga, but similar.

I did some research on the UFL which is just a slightly rebranded NGL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Gridiron_League_(United_States)

The main guy, Joe McClendon, has been trying to get this off the ground for years and by all accounts has been taking money from prospective players for tryouts, promising teams at various cities (recently OKC) and never playing a single down.

In fact, it looks like they sign coaches (like OKC's JD Runnels) and players then never pay them.


Also, Wallace (Wally) Lawrence was functioning as the GM for the local team while also trying to lease and promote the mall.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/crossroads020823a.jpg

Now that the team or league is not materializing the Lawrences are seeking to expose McClendon. McClendon claims the league and OKC Wranglers are still happening and they will play their first games on April 1st, even though there are no stadiums.


What a mess. Then you mix in a bunch of disgruntled would-be Crossroads tenants and you basically have 3 factions feuding: 1) Wally & Carri Lawrence; 2) McClendon/UFL/Wranglers; and 3) Latrice McMillian of Ragin Cajun representing her business and some of the other upset tenants. All three groups are using FB and uploaded video rants to point fingers at each other.

The only thing that looks relatively certain is the UFL appears to be a scam dating back years. My impression is the Lawrences have been working hard to get Crossroads open but it's been a huge task with lots of delays; I met them at the mall and they were absolutely working away trying to get it leased and opened. I know there has been considerable work on the HVAC and general cleanup, so they seem sincere in their efforts, although it's entirely possible they are in over their heads. McMillian has posted that she did get her deposit back but now claims to be looking out for the other businesses that have signed leases at Crossroads.

And because the Lawrences were mixed up with the Wranglers while also serving as mall leasing agents and managers, it's possible they are relatively innocent in all this as they assert to have been taken in by McClendon themselves. Or were they in on the scam? My hunch is they were not but there is no way to be certain.

At the same time, McClendon claims (through the OKC Wranglers FB page) they are still trying to work a deal directly with the Crossroads owner, and effectively go around the Lawrences.

Are the people in this story the same Carrie and Wallace Lawrence? If so, I'd also be worried if I were invested in their business.

https://www.news9.com/story/5e3500e1e0c96e774b36aa21/consumer-watch-helps-put-scammer-away

If its them which I believe it is because his facebook age matches up to the federal inmate lookup age) then its a good thing Oklahoma voters passed Medical Marijuana, They made an honest living helping doctors and patients invent medical conditions to get their 'green' card.

Kind of a puff piece on KFOR last night.

https://kfor.com/news/local/semi-pro-football-league-feuding-with-crossroads-mall-staff-over-stadium-lease/

It should be noted that independent of the issues with the lease, no permits have been filed to build the stadium at Crossroads or anywhere else. It sounds like they signed a lease, never came up with the money and never started the permitting process.

If you read through the Wikipedia article I posted about this football league, you'll see the same guy has been promising to start play for several years and absolutely nothing has happened thus far other than taking money from prospective players for tryouts.

It should be noted that independent of the issues with the lease, no permits have been filed to build the stadium at Crossroads or anywhere else. It sounds like they signed a lease, never came up with the money and never started the permitting process.

If you read through the Wikipedia article I posted about this football league, you'll see the same guy has been promising to start play for several years and absolutely nothing has happened thus far other than taking money from prospective players for tryouts.

That is good news! Building a football stadium next to the mall seems like a terrible idea

With the rough Valley Brook neighborhood directly north, the trash dump directly east, and the railroad yard directly south I just can’t see this area really taking off without a significant public investment in the hundreds of millions. It will take a grand vision and a long term, uphill pull on multiple fronts to make work: like the Wheeler District. Maybe not that same style of development but that same dedication. There are so many problems with that property the only thing really going for it is the amount of vacant land at a critical highway junction with potential commuter rail access. Otherwise it’s a crapper of a property. That’s the unfortunate reality. If it was a shining star the market would have found a way to make it work through one of the many attempts at revival. I think the best case scenario is a Midwest Wrecking spray paint on this structure unfortunately.

There also seems to be a history with this Joe McLendon character from this football league scamming other people in other cities. All of this doesn’t exactly bode well for the revitalization of this area.

i mean the Idea was ridiculous in the first place. playing indoor arena rules in an outdoor temporary cheaply put together stadium in spring all across tornado alley.

It's sad because I grew up going to Crossroads Mall, but it'll never be revived as a small. Maybe a flea market but it's too big for that too. I know the owner wants to make it an Asian destination but that's still questionable because of the location and conditions. I knew the Wranglers would never play a down there because of the costs involved to build a stadium and this is college football territory. Now it appears to just be a scam league that's been going on for years. I don't think the Lawrences were involved in the scam. They're just hoping it'd be real so maybe Crossroads would succeed. They do have a sketchy background that puts a target on them.

I do think they're in way over their head in the remodel. I watched some of their Facebook videos and they don't come across very professional. Some of their videos have themselves and friends tearing down walls and painting. You can't remodel something like this with friends. It takes an obscene amount of money and labor and I don't think the money is there. I've been involved in many retail remodels and I've built houses, I couldn't imagine undertaking something as big as a mall without a proven general contractor and a team of experienced contractors.

It's sad because I grew up going to Crossroads Mall, but it'll never be revived as a small. Maybe a flea market but it's too big for that too. I know the owner wants to make it an Asian destination but that's still questionable because of the location and conditions. I knew the Wranglers would never play a down there because of the costs involved to build a stadium and this is college football territory. Now it appears to just be a scam league that's been going on for years. I don't think the Lawrences were involved in the scam. They're just hoping it'd be real so maybe Crossroads would succeed. They do have a sketchy background that puts a target on them.

I do think they're in way over their head in the remodel. I watched some of their Facebook videos and they don't come across very professional. Some of their videos have themselves and friends tearing down walls and painting. You can't remodel something like this with friends. It takes an obscene amount of money and labor and I don't think the money is there. I've been involved in many retail remodels and I've built houses, I couldn't imagine undertaking something as big as a mall without a proven general contractor and a team of experienced contractors.

After the mall closed, I just did not understand why it has not been bulldozed and build something new, it would have been a better option and more useful

It's sad because I grew up going to Crossroads Mall, but it'll never be revived as a small. Maybe a flea market but it's too big for that too. I know the owner wants to make it an Asian destination but that's still questionable because of the location and conditions. I knew the Wranglers would never play a down there because of the costs involved to build a stadium and this is college football territory. Now it appears to just be a scam league that's been going on for years. I don't think the Lawrences were involved in the scam. They're just hoping it'd be real so maybe Crossroads would succeed. They do have a sketchy background that puts a target on them.

I do think they're in way over their head in the remodel. I watched some of their Facebook videos and they don't come across very professional. Some of their videos have themselves and friends tearing down walls and painting. You can't remodel something like this with friends. It takes an obscene amount of money and labor and I don't think the money is there. I've been involved in many retail remodels and I've built houses, I couldn't imagine undertaking something as big as a mall without a proven general contractor and a team of experienced contractors.Two other friends and I rode our bikes from the NW36th & May area to Crossroads once a week during summer break when we were 14 and 15. We hung out in the AMAZING arcade for a few hours. It was a special time so I have special memories of the mall. I'm very sad to see the state that it's in now.

Anything resembling what that mall once was has been gone for 30 years.

It's sad for me too as I worked there (Orbach's) for 3 years in college, but I mourned the loss a long time ago.

Having recently walked through there and watching what they have been doing, I can assure you whatever happens going forward will not rekindle any feelings of nostalgia. It's always going to be a sad place for anyone who remembers the glory days.

As stated by other posters, the area is a bit rough. I would think that the city of OKC or some other group would find a way to purchase the property and other vacent properties in the area. Along with this would be a relocation of the school to a better location. The demolition of this mall would take place and the area repurposed to industrial/warehouse uses that would generate jobs for the area due to its "cross roads" location. I dont think many people would want to look out to the view of a large mountain of covered trash. I just think the area needs to go to industrial and generate jobs. Maybe with that the areas to the west will be the housing of some of these jobs and that would continue to support the shopping in the area.

OKC needs to get a USFL team. Bad

with eyes on NFL as the next Big4 major league eventually. F MLB and NHL, the only league OKC should get besides MLS is NFL; until then get USFL. Tulsa should eventually go after NHL.

Oklahoma major league teams 2035:

Oklahoma City Thunder (NBA) est 2008
Oklahoma City Spark (WPF) est 2023
Oklahoma City Energy (MLS) est 2025
Tulsa Talons (NHL) est 2030
Oklahoma City Lightning (NFL) est 2035

AAA

Oklahoma City Blue (NBA/G-League) est 2010?
Oklahoma City Dodgers (mlb/AAA) est 2011?
Oklahoma City Wranglers (USFL) est 2030

i mean the Idea was ridiculous in the first place. playing indoor arena rules in an outdoor temporary cheaply put together stadium in spring all across tornado alley.

Agreed. I always thought this was stupid.

The building is honestly still good with plenty of parking spaces in the area. Parking could be used for more housing too. Do not forget that there are two schools in the area Dove and Santa Fe South.

The best option really would be redevelopment. I did do some work at Santa Fe South and that area is in good condition. But everything else is trash and pretty much isn't really being worked on.

So it would need to be real redevelopment in multiple areas not just the main area of the mall but also adjacent properties. Tearing it down really isn't the best solution because it's still good infrastructure and what are the chances it gets torn down and nothing happens? Think about how many times that's happened and there has been. An empty lot for 20 years. Never forget the Pei plan.

I wouldn't say the areas nearby are that bad because of the fact most people will not bother you. And if it is redeveloped with the original mall along with apartments and retail / office. That would be a much better look especially if it had more frequent bus acccess.

OKC needs to get a USFL team. Bad

with eyes on NFL as the next Big4 major league eventually. F MLB and NHL, the only league OKC should get besides MLS is NFL; until then get USFL. Tulsa should eventually go after NHL.

Oklahoma major league teams 2035:

Oklahoma City Thunder (NBA) est 2008
Oklahoma City Spark (WPF) est 2023
Oklahoma City Energy (MLS) est 2025
Tulsa Talons (NHL) est 2030
Oklahoma City Lightning (NFL) est 2035

AAA

Oklahoma City Blue (NBA/G-League) est 2010?
Oklahoma City Dodgers (mlb/AAA) est 2011?
Oklahoma City Wranglers (USFL) est 2030

We have absolutely no chance to get an MLS team in 2025 let alone 2035. An NFL team for OKC and an NHL team for Tulsa inside of the next 30 years is a fever dream. I would love to see more pro sports in Oklahoma, but we just do not have the media market/corporate base to even be a target for NFL/MLB/NHL expansion.

Citywokchinesefood set aside your chopsticks--that's the same ole song we heard in the late 90s and early 2000s that OKC would never be able to attract an NHL expansion franchise let alone an NBA franchise to our city. When we finally proved the 'nay sayers' wrong--many claimed the NBA wouldn't last past three years in Oklahoma City. The Thunder are in their 14th season in OKC and we have hosted an NBA franchise for 16 years.

The state of Oklahoma should chip in to help with a new NBA arena in Oklahoma City and interior upgrades to BOK Center in Tulsa.

When Oklahoma City applied for an NHL expansion franchise in 1996, our 2000 MSA (1,083,346) was similar to what Tulsa 2020 MSA is now (1,023,988).

Therefore IMO if Tulsa wanted to apply for an NHL expansion or relocation franchise the combined TV-Household for both Oklahoma City & Tulsa exceeds 1.25 million TV Households. The NBA Thunder are televised in both Oklahoma City and Tulsa markets.

The amount of sales taxes collected for the state from both of Oklahoma's two largest MSA deserves help with the two largest cities to attract major sports, conventions, meetings and events that bring out-of-state dollars into Oklahoma.

.

Well we technically really didn't attract a NBA franchise. We had wealthy Oklahoman's buy an NBA franchise and move them here. And if it wasn't for Katrine we wouldn't have had one here those other 2 years. But saying all that I'm glad we have the Thunder and support them the way OKC does. But the typical attendance numbers at a Thunder game don't come anywhere close to the numbers required to support a NFL franchise. And the way the values of existing NFL franchises are skyrocketing I doubt one would ever be bought and moved here.

Another pro team wouldn't be good for the Thunder nor would it be good for that other pro team. We can barely support the Thunder as it is. The Thunder were a solid team for the first 10 years at OKC. They are now in the rebuild drought years. The test for the Thunder is how strong fan support is if the drought lasts 5 plus years.
http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance

Well the combined MSA of Tulsa and OKC make for what's needed to support a second team. Neither city can support 2 on their own. If they aren't in the same sport, you might get away with something being in Tulsa. But what it is, well that's the catch. NFL isn't going to happen. Neither, even together, have what it takes to support that. But with NHL or MLS, is there strong enough support from 100 miles away to prop that up? Are people going to regularly take the turnpike for NHL or MLS? I would think NBA has a bigger chance of pulling Tulsa traffic to OKC for the occasional game. But i'm not confident that MLS or NHL have that level of draw to pull people from OKC up to Tulsa regularly. Now, throw in a high speed rail between the cities, and you might have something going for you :)

But there really is only so much corporate money to go around. And if someone in Tulsa really wanted to own some sort of pro team, they already would. As said above, that's what it would take to make it happen. Not only would someone from Tulsa have to buy something, but then the league would have to approve it. The NBA was already unhappy with the situation in Seattle and the Sonics. Key Arena (sorry, Climate Pledge Arena....cough cough)is still there, which just adds to the argument to leave.

At least with NHL, you already have the BOK so there's nothing that has to get built. But is hockey really drawing people like that anymore? MLB certainly isn't, so i'm not even discussing that as an option.

The catch is that if an MLS, MLB or NHL ends up in Oklahoma it'll be in Tulsa. If we want to watch it we can drive on down to Tulsa and come back. MLB and NHL draw people but they are so far down compared to the NFL in popularity and the NBA has worldwide draw so it would just be something else to do in the state. OU / OSU is small fries and just something that people wanna talk about. How many people in another country would talk about OU Football? But the thunder of course, even mlb does get views in Japan / korea.

The NFL would work in the middle of no where it is by far the most popular sport in the Country ....... and it is 9 games a year .. just need a deca billionaire to buy a team and move it here .. because the NFL is never expanding to okc

Citywokchinesefood set aside your chopsticks--that's the same ole song we heard in the late 90s and early 2000s that OKC would never be able to attract an NHL expansion franchise let alone an NBA franchise to our city. When we finally proved the 'nay sayers' wrong--many claimed the NBA wouldn't last past three years in Oklahoma City. The Thunder are in their 14th season in OKC and we have hosted an NBA franchise for 16 years.

The state of Oklahoma should chip in to help with a new NBA arena in Oklahoma City and interior upgrades to BOK Center in Tulsa.

When Oklahoma City applied for an NHL expansion franchise in 1996, our 2000 MSA (1,083,346) was similar to what Tulsa 2020 MSA is now (1,023,988).

Therefore IMO if Tulsa wanted to apply for an NHL expansion or relocation franchise the combined TV-Household for both Oklahoma City & Tulsa exceeds 1.25 million TV Households. The NBA Thunder are televised in both Oklahoma City and Tulsa markets.

The amount of sales taxes collected for the state from both of Oklahoma's two largest MSA deserves help with the two largest cities to attract major sports, conventions, meetings and events that bring out-of-state dollars into Oklahoma.

.

Keep smoking that copium. I don't understand how any of this is relevant to the facts of the matter. Oklahoma City is not getting an NFL team the only reason any city smaller than OKC has an NFL team is because they are literally a legacy franchise like the Green Bay Packers. All you are saying in this entire qoute is that you do not understand the impact of media markets and corporate bases for expansion teams for major sports. I would love to have an NHL team in the state, but Bettman has straight up said no NHL expansion in the foreseeable future. On top of that, any additional expansion team would more than likely end up being in Canada or a bigger hockey state like Wisconsin. Both have previously been discussed, but the NHL is currently not looking to expand at all for this decade at least. The NFL is a literal fever dream because of the cost of a franchise, facility, and our size as a media market. Baseball is dying, nobody under 30 gives a rat's ass about the MLB these days. The only major pro league that has ANY chance to come to Oklahoma is MLS. With that being said OKC is not even an expansion candidate at this point in time and won't be until an ownership group is ready to pony up $350 million or more for a franchise. So, Oklahoma is approximately one billionaire that wants to blow half a billion dollars on an MLS team away from being a candidate city let alone securing a franchise.

Oklahoma City already has pro football-The OU Sooners. By any measure OU football has an enterprise value larger than some of the smaller NFL teams, such as Jacksonville Jaguars, Cincinnati Bengals, or Nashville Titans. So much like Austin Texas or Columbus Ohio don't have the NFL, our market isn't big enough to support 2 teams.

When I was paying attention to the Las Vegas MLS expansion efforts a couple years ago, I recall MLS is already committed to 35 or 37 cities total. And OKC is not on the list. A league going from $20 million (or so) franchise fees 12 years ago to $350 million today is as big a gamble on the future as it was 48 years ago when Pele signed with the New York Cosmos of the NASL.

Oklahoma City already has pro football-The OU Sooners. By any measure OU football has an enterprise value larger than some of the smaller NFL teams, such as Jacksonville Jaguars, Cincinnati Bengals, or Nashville Titans. So much like Austin Texas or Columbus Ohio don't have the NFL, our market isn't big enough to support 2 teams.

When I was paying attention to the Las Vegas MLS expansion efforts a couple years ago, I recall MLS is already committed to 35 or 37 cities total. And OKC is not on the list. A league going from $20 million (or so) franchise fees 12 years ago to $350 million today is as big a gamble on the future as it was 48 years ago when Pele signed with the New York Cosmos of the NASL.

i love OU football more then about any one .... but no it doesn't ...

the NFL is the 1000 pound Gorilla ... it dwarfs everything else

i love OU football more then about any one .... but no it doesn't ...

the NFL is the 1000 pound Gorilla ... it dwarfs everything else

That gorilla also has a likely 4-5 billion dollar franchise fee attached to it on top of a stadium.

That gorilla also has a likely 4-5 billion dollar franchise fee attached to it on top of a stadium.

o i agree but don't get it twisted if George Kaiser or Harlold Hamm bought an NFL team for 4 bill and asked OKC and the state to build him a stadium so they could move it to OKC tulsa or anadako the state would in a sec .. a it would sell out every game

o i agree but don't get it twisted if George Kaiser or Harlold Hamm bought an NFL team for 4 bill and asked OKC and the state to build him a stadium so they could move it to OKC tulsa or anadako the state would in a sec .. a it would sell out every game I doubt it will ever happen. Two things against selling out every game. First, restaurants and such are much slower now than a year ago. The cost of just living has put many people that could have afforded an NFL game or two a year out of the market now. And second, the team would have to be competitive. Like deep in the playoffs competitive. There were literally tons of free tickets available for 1990s Sooner games.

The NFL in Oklahoma would have another issue to overcome, at least in OKC. Jerry Jones considers OKC one of his markets for the Cowboys. He might try to claim Tulsa too, but the Cowboys and the Chiefs are the same distance from Tulsa and both have fan bases here.

I agree with Boulder and Swake.

IF, the opportunity ever came up, the state/city would figure out a way to do it and the expense of anything and everything else. Even if we're the Browns, in their mind, it would have meant that we "made it". I would hope that they would be more realistic than that but i'm not holding my breathe.

But that does assume that it would even be allowed. OKC is a multi-team market (chiefs/cowboys/etc), but in Mr Jones' mind, we're his. Cuban sort of had the same thought with the Mavericks, but wasn't nearly as much of a turd about it as Jones would be. But it doesn't matter, we're not getting NFL. No one wants MLB. NHL is NOT expanding.

MLS is still the thing to keep an eye on. It's far cheaper than the others, so if that's what our eyes are one, i actually feel like OKC would still stand the chance to host that team.
If Presti will ever pull his head out of butt with how he is managing talent, the Thunder might actually get to doing something again. And that helps everyone as the team is more popular.


But we're getting super distracted and off topic here.

So Crossroads. I saw on one of Lackmeyer's Friday Chats (where people thing he actually is the authority on these decisions for some reason) commented on both Heritage Park and Crossroads as possible jail sites. In this case, i do agree with him that neither site is viable for this purpose. But we should also face the fact that the owners may be interested in that concept. Heritage Park's spot would be totally stupid and MWC would fight that with all their might. Crossroads, well it's not a great selling point having a school on-site. And another school a block away.

So we're back to what do you do with it? It's designed in a way like Shepard where it's easily convertible to office space. But the anchor stores actually could be fairly easily. Those brick walls are not load bearing, so it would be easy to cut in windows. Open floor plans are the thing these days, so you can put in a cube farm with ample parking. But is there a market need for that? Especially in this area? Yeah, no. But it's capable of doing that. So what else would it be capable of doing?

There's plenty of office space right now, unless businesses are looking for dirt cheap office space. That's what they are trying to do with Crossroads right now. Dirt cheap business space, if someone wanted some office space, I'm sure they wouldn't say no.

The NFL is a financial black hole for everyone except the NFL, and almost every city is being held hostage by them. That is a poison pill OKC would be better off not swallowing.

The NFL is a financial black hole for everyone except the NFL, and almost every city is being held hostage by them. That is a poison pill OKC would be better off not swallowing.


^ Agree ^

As for the future of the NBA in OKC; IF we're going to build a new arena--we need to evaluate the long-term investment of how a new arena can better serve all future events as our city moves forward.