Don't race bait. I do understand and appreciate that OKC is a diverse and integrated city. But if the 'mall' were in/near the Asian district it'd help make the area more of a destination - that was my point.

You might look up the meaning of "race bait" before attempting to use it as an insult next time.

My use of census data to counter your moot point was hardly encouraging racism or anger towards any race.

I didn't use race bait as an insult, perhaps you might need to look up the definition since you're to touchy. Furthermore, only YOU think my point was moot.

I didn't use race bait as an insult, perhaps you might need to look up the definition since you're to touchy. Furthermore, only YOU think my point was moot.

You're point is moot... The mall isn't in the Asian District... So there is only your speculation that it could be a destination.

I could make a moot point and say if the Asian District was around Crossroads Mall it could be a destination.... That statement having little or no practical relevance, typically because the subject is too uncertain to allow a decision is also moot.

As far as the term "race bait".... I used multiple words verbatim from the definition.

Personally, i think the space is going to be best served after dozing the thing down. I dont think you can find many examples of where a mall closed and then re-opened successfully. Yes, i'm sure there are a few, but in most cases i think you'll find that it doesn't happen. We've had what, 3 failed re-launches already.

Now that we know the industrial reserve is going to be developed, maybe the city should acquire this space for a new reserve. It's got highway and rail access. Crossroads Blvd is kind of dumb and the whole Pole Rd thing is weird. but if the city really wanted to, they could make that all better.

Surely, the biggest reason why enclosed malls fail is because it's too costly to heat and cool them. Store owners don't want to pay the higher rent to cover those costs, so much prefer the cheaper rent of open strip malls. I would suggest enclosed malls try to save themselves by turning to solar, heat pumps and windmills to cover the cost of heating and cooling them.

Personally, i think the space is going to be best served after dozing the thing down. I dont think you can find many examples of where a mall closed and then re-opened successfully. Yes, i'm sure there are a few, but in most cases i think you'll find that it doesn't happen. We've had what, 3 failed re-launches already.

Now that we know the industrial reserve is going to be developed, maybe the city should acquire this space for a new reserve. It's got highway and rail access. Crossroads Blvd is kind of dumb and the whole Pole Rd thing is weird. but if the city really wanted to, they could make that all better.

Where is this industrial reserve you are speaking of?

Where is this industrial reserve you are speaking of?

A new industrial park just to the east of Crossroads on the south side of I-240. Here's the OKCTalk thread: OKC 577 Industrial Reserve (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=46626)

Personally, i think the space is going to be best served after dozing the thing down. I dont think you can find many examples of where a mall closed and then re-opened successfully. Yes, i'm sure there are a few, but in most cases i think you'll find that it doesn't happen. We've had what, 3 failed re-launches already.

Now that we know the industrial reserve is going to be developed, maybe the city should acquire this space for a new reserve. It's got highway and rail access. Crossroads Blvd is kind of dumb and the whole Pole Rd thing is weird. but if the city really wanted to, they could make that all better.

I agree with that

The oklahoman is saying the the semi-pro football team OKC Wranglers is building a football arena on the Crossroads Mall Property.

It will be an 8,400-seat temporary facility that will be moved later.

It be in the southern part of the parking lot; likely in the southwest area as the other lots are owned by Santa Fe charter school.


There are several dozen very nice HS football stadiums in OKC. Not sure why they would want to build a temporary facility in a mall parking lot.

Especially since this league will be in the spring.

It will be an 8,400-seat temporary facility that will be moved later.

It be in the southern part of the parking lot; likely in the southwest area as the other lots are owned by Santa Fe charter school.


There are several dozen very nice HS football stadiums in OKC. Not sure why they would want to build a temporary facility in a mall parking lot.

Especially since this league will be in the spring.

oh wow, i wasnt able to read the article since I dont want to pay haha. That is odd to build a temp I was hoping for a nice size permanent stadium.

Wranglers to Play in Temporary Stadium

https://digitalshift-assets.sfo2.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/pw/41b3f072-e451-490d-8494-59cafbc4c610/p-517d7a73-7625-4777-aad1-b5b729dda856/1665032205-full.jpg

Link: https://www.okcwranglers.com/news/wranglers-to-play-in-temporary-stadium

The UFL website https://www.uflfootball.com/home, a number of teams will be playing ^ in temporary stadiums using this same placeholder pictured above.

^

Ah, didn't realize it was arena league, which is why they can't use HS stadiums.

Why does the arena league want to play arena-league football outdoors. . .

Why does the arena league want to play arena-league football outdoors. . .

in spring.... in places that are known to have bad spring weather....

^

Ah, didn't realize it was arena league, which is why they can't use HS stadiums.

This is not the Arena League. The Arena League played indoors and has been out of business since 2019. The UFL plays outside. Like the XFL this will be the third time a group launched an entity called the UFL. Like the XFL the 2 previous launches did not succeed.

This is not the Arena League. The Arena League played indoors and has been out of business since 2019. The UFL plays outside. Like the XFL this will be the third time a group launched an entity called the UFL. Like the XFL the 2 previous launches did not succeed.

https://www.uflfootball.com/about


The new United Football League is a United States-based spring football league that plays an outdoor-arena football brand of football from April to August.

You can see by the image of the stadium this league does not play on a full-size football field, hence my point about not using existing high school stadiums.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/uflstadium1.jpg

https://www.uflfootball.com/about



You can see by the image of the stadium this league does not play on a full-size football field, hence my point about not using existing high school stadiums.

Will they tear out the concrete and play on grass or install some type of artificial turf?

Will they tear out the concrete and play on grass or install some type of artificial turf?

I'm sure they just lay the artificial field over the pavement, with some sort of underlayment.

The field is sixty (60) yards (180 feet) long by thirty-four and one-third (34 1/3) yards (103 feet) wide.

https://digitalshift-assets.sfo2.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/pw/74d5d60d-554c-4ad6-ac2f-1efac76a9e62/f-efd61a3c-097f-4cfa-88c6-833dcd7efc36/United%20Football%20League%202023%20Rulebook.pdf

^

That's only 10 yards longer than the arena league.

They are going to pay $1.1 million to build a temporary outdoor stadium for one year? Which has to be 10x more than it would cost to rent a similar sized indoor arena with the same sized field and out of the weather?

What? Why?

It will be an 8,400-seat temporary facility that will be moved later.

It be in the southern part of the parking lot; likely in the southwest area as the other lots are owned by Santa Fe charter school.


There are several dozen very nice HS football stadiums in OKC. Not sure why they would want to build a temporary facility in a mall parking lot.

Especially since this league will be in the spring.

So they are going to pay 1.1 million and play for 1 year and move to another location? That makes zero sense and that is a huge waste of 1.1 million

I think the $1.1 million is 75% for fixed costs of transportable items (bleachers, scoreboard, carpet, etc.). And I’m guessing the league is is gonna last at least 2 years, possibly more. It is also quite possible an outdoor performance venue that is half the size of traditional stadiums will be a very popular location for other events.

People do things outdoors in the spring and I can see this doing well. “UFL-half the size and twice the action! And not a bad seat in the house!”

They are going to pay $1.1 million to build a temporary outdoor stadium for one year? Which has to be 10x more than it would cost to rent a similar sized indoor arena with the same sized field and out of the weather?

What? Why?

Agreed, seems like an odd choice.

I wonder if this concept was dreamed up with covid/pandemic awareness thinking attendees might be more willing to attend if it's outdoors. Seems like a large risky bet that people would care about that at this point now.

Or maybe the league was actually created to sell temporary bleachers to cities at a profit knowing they won't last long but will make a quick margin on the actual bleachers themselves lol I can't make any sense of this.

Opening day keeps getting pushed back. It was suppose to open in November then they said in December now it is Feb 2023. They keep adding more projects the owners of the mall posted on their facebook that they purchased a old hotel next to the mall and will be renovating it and plans will be announced soon on whats to come? I think the owners which are also the owners chronic weed are bitting off more than they can chew. I say complete one project first before venturing into another. Again I hope this round of crossroads mall revival works but I have a feeling its just going to be the New Old Paris Flea Market once its all said and done.

Even when it reopens you can expect Old Paris vibes. It's never going to be an actual mall again with big anchors and actual stores people expect at a mall.

Even when it reopens you can expect Old Paris vibes. It's never going to be an actual mall again with big anchors and actual stores people expect at a mall.

Like I said before, the mall should have been bulldozed and turned into something new that is useful

I think it will be good for local businesses to have a proper venue. BTW, it's Chinese owners - so I can only assume the Asian Mall/Restaurant concepts will be built and successful. I also like that the NEW Crossroads is not focus on retail as a destination but as the mall being something other than retail as the focus, with local retail thrown in. This to me is not Old Paris Flea Market but instead more like a local business incubator that happens to be what? 2 million square feet. ....

Odd that the people running the crossroads convention and main inside mall facebook page are saying they r the owners and they have nothing to do with the asian market and restaurant that bought only the old JCpennys building not the main mall itself which the people who own the convention a big chunk of the main mall is the owners of the Cronic Weed. They sure are acting like the owners since they are the ones posting updates and repairs they are doing in the mall and handling the stores leasing etc.

^

I went out and met with the couple doing the leasing for the mall.

They are planning to run the convention center and are doing the mall leasing for the Chinese owners. They are not the owners of any of the property.

^

I went out and met with the couple doing the leasing for the mall.

They are planning to run the convention center and are doing the mall leasing for the Chinese owners. They are not the owners of any of the property.

oh wow thanks for clearing that up, they keep acting like its them and promoting chronic crunk on everything. Interesting to know this. I wonder whats the deal with the hotel they are talking about. wonder if they are the owners of that or not.

Pete,

Since you have some level of relationship with the group tied to the management or operation of Crossroads, I am going to toss this out there in general and to you in particular.

i think they have a really serious PR issue right now. To me, their messaging is muddled and confused at best, and the perpetually pushed back reopening is confusing and at worst causing people to view the effort with increasing skepticism. I know I'm getting less confident about their effort with every passing day.

There are seemingly conflicting stories about whether renters have paid rents or deposits (if any), or the kinds of contracts they have signed, and I think everyone involved (inside and out) would benefit greatly from a "journalistic" Q&A about their status.

So far, I think they have benefitted greatly from positive public PR about their reopening, but these other messages about other activities combined with what seems to be yet another delay all serve to make the effort seem very muddled and confused. I think prospective business owners signing up for space in the mall as well as OKC residents in general would be well served by a "clearing of the air" about the status of this current reopening project.

To say things are muddied right now would be an understatement. I don't have a good feeling at all where things stand, and given how this current reopen effort has benefitted from essentially unchallenged public PR, I think some frank and possibly tough questions and answers aren't an unreasonable expectation.

Let me close by saying I am NOT suggesting anything wrong or nefarious is going on, just that we have a very muddled PR message that needs to be cleaned up.

Let me close by saying I am NOT suggesting anything wrong or nefarious is going on, just that we have a very muddled PR message that needs to be cleaned up.

Have you Stranger Things season 3? There is obviously a secret Chinese military base underneath the mall. :)

I guess the property manager gets free rent? The way she advertises on facebook for the 'Mall' you would think they are opening up pot land. Maybe not too far from the truth.

There have been numerous plans on revitalizing the mall/area but nothing has worked. I think the reason people hold onto the idea that this could be a great space is due to memories and nostalgia. It's time to do away with the nostalgia for Crossroads. It's just not going to work. We need to stop holding onto the big chunk of asphalt and concrete.

The Crossroads Parking lot would a good fit for the MAPS 4 Multipurpose Stadium which will be designed to hold a regulation pitch soccer stadium. You could build the stadium on those grounds and have paved parking already in place.

The stadium itself as a co-center piece could help with the revitalization of Crossroads Mall, especially when you're talking
about the mall opening a nice size Chinese restaurant. There are theaters on the grounds as well which if not operable, could be given new life. It has been a long time since I've been in the area, just not up to date with the area's development.

The Crossroads Parking lot would a good fit for the MAPS 4 Multipurpose Stadium which will be designed to hold a regulation pitch soccer stadium. You could build the stadium on those grounds and have paved parking already in place.

The stadium itself as a co-center piece could help with the revitalization of Crossroads Mall, especially when you're talking
about the mall opening a nice size Chinese restaurant. There are theaters on the grounds as well which if not operable, could be given new life. It has been a long time since I've been in the area, just not up to date with the area's development.

Following you from BigSoccer - this is an absymal location for the MAPS4 Stadium.

The interchange is going to be a 5-10 year project with associated traffic headache and just because a sea of asphalt exists, doesn't mean we should use it.

A similar development proposal was floated to repurpose Pontiac Stadium for an MLS Expansion club and convention hall / performance venue and this isn't any better or well thought out.

Following you from BigSoccer - this is an absymal location for the MAPS4 Stadium.

The interchange is going to be a 5-10 year project with associated traffic headache and just because a sea of asphalt exists, doesn't mean we should use it.

A similar development proposal was floated to repurpose Pontiac Stadium for an MLS Expansion club and convention hall / performance venue and this isn't any better or well thought out.

Good point, totally forgot about the upcoming interchange project. IIRC Farmers Market--West of Classen and just north of I-40, Wheeler Park and Producers Coop--Just south of Bricktown are the last locations the city listed as potential locations.

The Producers Coop site is attempting to get $3 million per acre. IMO it would be an idea location. City budgeted $41 million for the stadium, so you can eliminate the Producers Coop site.

Good point, totally forgot about the upcoming interchange project. IIRC Farmers Market--West of Classen and just north of I-40, Wheeler Park and Producers Coop--Just south of Bricktown are the last locations the city listed as potential locations.

The Producers Coop site is attempting to get $3 million per acre. IMO it would be an idea location. City budgeted $41 million for the stadium, so you can eliminate the Producers Coop site.
I know everyone wants any stadium to be "downtown", or as close as possible. But wouldn't the Fairgrounds be a good place for it? HUGE mounts of parking. HUGE amounts of unused space. Maybe one reason I think this is because it seems all we've been doing is taking things OUT of the Fairgrounds. SO much so, that it just seems like a big parking lot now.

I know everyone wants any stadium to be "downtown", or as close as possible. But wouldn't the Fairgrounds be a good place for it? HUGE mounts of parking. HUGE amounts of unused space. Maybe one reason I think this is because it seems all we've been doing is taking things OUT of the Fairgrounds. SO much so, that it just seems like a big parking lot now.

The stadium is on a $41 million budget (an increase of $4 million from $37 million). Wherever you construct the stadium, parking will be a monumental concern.

Three sites high on City's list: https://kfor.com/news/local/city-leaders-considering-locations-for-maps-4-multipurpose-stadium/


Farmers Market- West of Classen and just north of I-40
Wheeler Park- Currently owned by the city
Producers Coop- Just south of Bricktown.




https://kfor.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/03/MAPS-4-stadium-option-1.jpg
Funk Jr., selected option one.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ8euC8nRiLbcH4IXYkW2Hrk0FsSllgp XoQHxKXQFbjewZZ8iMNEUhgv4SiYaAHPYRda1k&usqp=CAU

Planned MAPS 4 Stadium will be one level with 8,000 chairback seats capable of expansion to 18,000 or more seats.

Fairgrounds (City owned land) where we are building the MAPS 4 Coliseum could include the stadium since there's plenty
of parking and less expensive extensions to infrastructure connections available. Fairgrounds IMO should not be ruled out.

.

love the option but disappointed it will only be 8000 seats (for $41m??) and also disappointed expansion only adds 10,000. Aren't we seeking MLS guys? Should minimum start at about 12,000 seats expandable to 30,000.

I also disagree with you Larry on the fairgrounds as an option. Sorry, they blew it (up, literally) with what once was there. Also, I think it is very important that we locate the stadium as close as possible to the traditional latin community; if it can't be on the Southside then it needs to be as close as possible. The choices the city has are perfect; with Farmers Market as my preference given its location and that such a venue would help anchor the flegling district into something very special. Crossroads, combining wht the AFL or whatever football league is going there, could really be an option checking all boxes (including your idea for existing parking).

I'm torn between Farmers Market and Crossroads but would give the edge to Farmers since it would really help there much better; and a new/different stadium (temp to start) at Crossroads.

love the option but disappointed it will only be 8000 seats (for $41m??) and also disappointed expansion only adds 10,000. Aren't we seeking MLS guys? Should minimum start at about 12,000 seats expandable to 30,000.

I also disagree with you Larry on the fairgrounds as an option. Sorry, they blew it (up, literally) with what once was there. Also, I think it is very important that we locate the stadium as close as possible to the traditional latin community; if it can't be on the Southside then it needs to be as close as possible. The choices the city has are perfect; with Farmers Market as my preference given its location and that such a venue would help anchor the flegling district into something very special. Crossroads, combining wht the AFL or whatever football league is going there, could really be an option checking all boxes (including your idea for existing parking).

I'm torn between Farmers Market and Crossroads but would give the edge to Farmers since it would really help there much better; and a new/different stadium (temp to start) at Crossroads.

17 of the MLS stadiums seat 22k or under

12 under 21k

love the option but disappointed it will only be 8000 seats (for $41m??) and also disappointed expansion only adds 10,000. Aren't we seeking MLS guys? Should minimum start at about 12,000 seats expandable to 30,000.

I also disagree with you Larry on the fairgrounds as an option. Sorry, they blew it (up, literally) with what once was there. Also, I think it is very important that we locate the stadium as close as possible to the traditional latin community; if it can't be on the Southside then it needs to be as close as possible. The choices the city has are perfect; with Farmers Market as my preference given its location and that such a venue would help anchor the flegling district into something very special. Crossroads, combining wht the AFL or whatever football league is going there, could really be an option checking all boxes (including your idea for existing parking).

I'm torn between Farmers Market and Crossroads but would give the edge to Farmers since it would really help there much better; and a new/different stadium (temp to start) at Crossroads.

There is a traditional Latino Community in the Capitol Hill area, my parish at Little Flower Catholic Church is in walking distance of the Latino Community Development Agency; however there are pockets of areas where you have apartment complexes spread throughout OKC where there is a good number of the Latino Community residing.

Oklahoma City is very diverse, so just my opinion, it won't matter where you put the stadium--so long as it is built to the specifications with room for expansion.

I realize we are getting off the track of the Crossroads Mall thread, but I am following this discussion with interest, as St. Louis (where I live) is in the process of debuting their new MLS stadium this winter towards the team's inaugural MLS season starting this spring.

https://www.stlcitysc.com/stadium/

I am a little worried about the prospect of all this for OKC, to be honest. OKC may have a thriving Latino community but the OKC of my memory did not have a particularly strong soccer culture. Maybe that has changed. Regardless, I kind of feel like the city is getting too big population-wise to be proposing and designing stadiums for minor league aspirations. If MLS is the goal, design the stadium for that from the beginning. Kind of like the experience with the Thunder.

I realize we are getting off the track of the Crossroads Mall thread, but I am following this discussion with interest, as St. Louis (where I live) is in the process of debuting their new MLS stadium this winter towards the team's inaugural MLS season starting this spring.

https://www.stlcitysc.com/stadium/

I am a little worried about the prospect of all this for OKC, to be honest. OKC may have a thriving Latino community but the OKC of my memory did not have a particularly strong soccer culture. Maybe that has changed. Regardless, I kind of feel like the city is getting too big population-wise to be proposing and designing stadiums for minor league aspirations. If MLS is the goal, design the stadium for that from the beginning. Kind of like the experience with the Thunder.

Agree 100%


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ8euC8nRiLbcH4IXYkW2Hrk0FsSllgp XoQHxKXQFbjewZZ8iMNEUhgv4SiYaAHPYRda1k&usqp=CAU

The design above has two twin multilevels across from the length of the field. Could seat anywhere from 18,000 - 22,000.

You're right stlokc, go ahead and build the basic chairbacks seat stadium. Leave some of the suites unfinished until needed (When you obtain an MLS franchise).

Use the ground level seats for USL or games that demand more seats.

Crossroads should be reserved for a large Buc-ee’s and an NFL stadium, imo.

Need to be thinking much bigger than MLS.

How big do you think? Possibly a bowl game for Division 1 football or NFL, or a more conservative estimate of 24k?

Oklahoma City is not getting an NFL team; not with the enduring power of college football and two D1 teams with passionate fan bases within an hour’s drive. There isn’t enough local football money to make OU, OSU, and the NFL all work. Not until the metro area doubles in size, at least.

But to answer your question, HFAA, I think Laramie is right. If a stadium is to be built, go ahead and build it to MLS specs, around 18K-22K. And my preferred location would be the inner Southside, somewhere between Scissortail park and old Capitol Hill, or in the Farmers Market area. The Southside needs some love, but tie it into the real civic infrastructure that we’ve spent so much on already rather than a parking lot at a highway junction. Stadiums surrounded by acres of parking don’t do that much for a city’s renewal and advancement.

the BELOW is what I was trying to say.


I realize we are getting off the track of the Crossroads Mall thread, but I am following this discussion with interest, as St. Louis (where I live) is in the process of debuting their new MLS stadium this winter towards the team's inaugural MLS season starting this spring.

https://www.stlcitysc.com/stadium/

I am a little worried about the prospect of all this for OKC, to be honest. OKC may have a thriving Latino community but the OKC of my memory did not have a particularly strong soccer culture. Maybe that has changed. Regardless, I kind of feel like the city is getting too big population-wise to be proposing and designing stadiums for minor league aspirations. If MLS is the goal, design the stadium for that from the beginning. Kind of like the experience with the Thunder.

I believe the COOP lands is where the NFL stadium should go. A Buc-ees and HEB would go nicely at Crossroads however. :)


Crossroads should be reserved for a large Buc-ee’s and an NFL stadium, imo.

Need to be thinking much bigger than MLS.

Oklahoma City is not getting an NFL team; not with the enduring power of college football and two D1 teams with passionate fan bases within an hour’s drive. There isn’t enough local football money to make OU, OSU, and the NFL all work. Not until the metro area doubles in size, at least.

Now this is where I disagree with you a little bit. NFL is definitely the next major league for OKC, aside from MLS being the very next. NFL is only 8 home games plus a few more if you make the playoffs highly seeded. The games are on Sundays most of the time and like the Thunder the NFL can draw from both collegiate fanbases. Finally, NFL wouldn't directly compete with the NBA/OKC Thunder or the MLS; whereas the other leagues (NHL) would or have too many games (MLB).

The way to make NFL work is 1) the stadium and 2) the same ownership group as the OKC Thunder. I know there are cities ahead of OKC on the NFL pecking order but I suspect there may be some relocations to fill those spots, so OKC could be ready to go once the green light is lit, the ownership group is formed/interested, and the city decides to build on the COOP lands. I think once we hit 2 million metro it will be perfect for 2.5 major league teams, MLS (the .5) should be the next focus though for the city. Tulsa should go after the NHL and just be THE hockey city for the state.

Now this is where I disagree with you a little bit. NFL is definitely the next major league for OKC, aside from MLS being the very next. NFL is only 8 home games plus a few more if you make the playoffs highly seeded. The games are on Sundays most of the time and like the Thunder the NFL can draw from both collegiate fanbases. Finally, NFL wouldn't directly compete with the NBA/OKC Thunder or the MLS; whereas the other leagues (NHL) would or have too many games (MLB).

The way to make NFL work is 1) the stadium and 2) the same ownership group as the OKC Thunder. I know there are cities ahead of OKC on the NFL pecking order but I suspect there may be some relocations to fill those spots, so OKC could be ready to go once the green light is lit, the ownership group is formed/interested, and the city decides to build on the COOP lands. I think once we hit 2 million metro it will be perfect for 2.5 major league teams, MLS (the .5) should be the next focus though for the city. Tulsa should go after the NHL and just be THE hockey city for the state.

You're correct Hot Rod.

NHL in Tulsa 2030--MSA projection 1.12 million much like St. Paul, MN has NHL and Minneapolis has NBA, NFL, MLB and University of Minnesota (Minneapolis) has NCAA Division I.

MLS in OKC 2030--MSA projection 1.65 million.
Next MAPS 4 extension should focus on Paycom Center replacement April 1, 2028: $70 million with interest on pause. New I-240/I-35 Interchange should look like I-35/I-235 Broadway OKC-Edmond Interchange.

New $500 million arena on Prairie Surf Media 4-square block site. September 2027MAPS 4 extension vote--new arena opens 2029.

City could begin a study on NFL feasibility after 2030.

.

Oklahoma City is not getting an NFL team; not with the enduring power of college football and two D1 teams with passionate fan bases within an hour’s drive. There isn’t enough local football money to make OU, OSU, and the NFL all work. Not until the metro area doubles in size, at least.

IMHO we're not getting MLS either. Too many larger, more affluent, NLF-owner-based cities would get in before us. But a 20k stadium could be used for:
- soccer (USL, US Women's National team friendly, HS state tournament)
- rugby
- football ( local small college like OBU v SNU, or even go after the FCS Championship that is now played in Frisco at FC Dallas stadium, state tournament games, XFL, USFL, etc...)
- concerts

IMHO we're not getting MLS either. Too many larger, more affluent, NLF-owner-based cities would get in before us. But a 20k stadium could be used for:
- soccer (USL, US Women's National team friendly, HS state tournament)
- rugby
- football ( local small college like OBU v SNU, or even go after the FCS Championship that is now played in Frisco at FC Dallas stadium, state tournament games, XFL, USFL, etc...)
- concerts

cough cough....Marching Band contests and DCI events :)

MLS is already committed to either 36 or 40 cities. There is no way OKC is getting a team for, at least 15 years, IMO.

Now this is where I disagree with you a little bit. NFL is definitely the next major league for OKC, aside from MLS being the very next. NFL is only 8 home games plus a few more if you make the playoffs highly seeded. The games are on Sundays most of the time and like the Thunder the NFL can draw from both collegiate fanbases. Finally, NFL wouldn't directly compete with the NBA/OKC Thunder or the MLS; whereas the other leagues (NHL) would or have too many games (MLB).

The way to make NFL work is 1) the stadium and 2) the same ownership group as the OKC Thunder. I know there are cities ahead of OKC on the NFL pecking order but I suspect there may be some relocations to fill those spots, so OKC could be ready to go once the green light is lit, the ownership group is formed/interested, and the city decides to build on the COOP lands. I think once we hit 2 million metro it will be perfect for 2.5 major league teams, MLS (the .5) should be the next focus though for the city. Tulsa should go after the NHL and just be THE hockey city for the state.

Are you sniffing glue? OKC is not going to become an NFL city in the next 50 years. A Modern NFL stadium is going to cost 1.5+ billion dollars, the city isn't coming up with that, and no local investment group is going to pony up either. While I agree that Oklahoman's love football and would certainly fill up a stadium. I don't believe that OKC has the corporate base, investor group, or national draw for the NFL. Even when the Thunder have been great, they get shafted by the league on national games. The Knicks and Lakers could be a dumpster fire and they will still get 15+ national tv games. The NBA as a league doesn't value OKC as much as the larger markets because we do not pull in as much revenue for the league. The NFL will have the exact same considerations monetarily and will certainly go with the largest media markets available for any teams that are moved or any expansion that would take place. I would love to see professional sport expand in OKC, however it will take a billionaire/ownership group with billions that is bound and determined to have a second pro sports team here by any means necessary.

Are you sniffing glue? OKC is not going to become an NFL city in the next 50 years. A Modern NFL stadium is going to cost 1.5+ billion dollars, the city isn't coming up with that, and no local investment group is going to pony up either. While I agree that Oklahoman's love football and would certainly fill up a stadium. I don't believe that OKC has the corporate base, investor group, or national draw for the NFL. Even when the Thunder have been great, they get shafted by the league on national games. The Knicks and Lakers could be a dumpster fire and they will still get 15+ national tv games. The NBA as a league doesn't value OKC as much as the larger markets because we do not pull in as much revenue for the league. The NFL will have the exact same considerations monetarily and will certainly go with the largest media markets available for any teams that are moved or any expansion that would take place. I would love to see professional sport expand in OKC, however it will take a billionaire/ownership group with billions that is bound and determined to have a second pro sports team here by any means necessary.
Add to that, in the NFL the Denver Broncos sold this year for $5 billion, and the Washington Commanders (formerly Redskins) are beginning discussions of a team sale in 2023. Their initial asking price is $7 billion.

Oklahoma City and Tulsa

Combined, Oklahoma City-Tulsa has a MSA population of 2,443,683 = OKC 1,425,695 + TUL 1,023,988 -
with a combined TV DMS viewership of 1,253,370 -- 41. Oklahoma City (722,140) & 58. Tulsa (531,230).

DMA source:


Oklahoma City: https://www.mediamarketmap.com/oklahoma-city-designated-market-media-map/
Tulsa: https://www.mediamarketmap.com/tulsa-designated-market-media-map/


.

Are you sniffing glue? OKC is not going to become an NFL city in the next 50 years. A Modern NFL stadium is going to cost 1.5+ billion dollars, the city isn't coming up with that, and no local investment group is going to pony up either. While I agree that Oklahoman's love football and would certainly fill up a stadium. I don't believe that OKC has the corporate base, investor group, or national draw for the NFL. Even when the Thunder have been great, they get shafted by the league on national games. The Knicks and Lakers could be a dumpster fire and they will still get 15+ national tv games. The NBA as a league doesn't value OKC as much as the larger markets because we do not pull in as much revenue for the league. The NFL will have the exact same considerations monetarily and will certainly go with the largest media markets available for any teams that are moved or any expansion that would take place. I would love to see professional sport expand in OKC, however it will take a billionaire/ownership group with billions that is bound and determined to have a second pro sports team here by any means necessary.

the only way OKC would get the NFL is the same way OKC got the NBA (okc was never getting an expansion franchise) a local Billionaire buys a team and moves it here .. and if that happened the City / county/ state would 100% help build a stadium ..