I visited last week and I was not impressed with the El Perrian Market or whatever it is called the new owners I guess are trying to right a sinking ship but it to much submerged. They only used a small portion of the first floor for this El Perrian Market. The work that was done was cheaply done. You have to throw your weight against the door to exit the market. It is really bad the shape of the new space. Also The signs they put up at all the entrances into the mall area are in extreme poor condition trashy looking shredded and torn. Not much noticeable work in the mall has been done with the new owners. There is so much potential. The mall is clean and lighted but the restrooms were in poor disrepair non working sinks and hand and soap dryers. I visited the Malls website it has not been updated in 2 years still looks the same now their social media page FB is active. Looks like the mall is not getting the care or work done that was promised for the mall. Looks like this mall will finally see its last days. Its a shame I have good childhood memories from the 80's.

I'd agree that the place seems to be structurally in good shape, just needs some cosmetic help.

That I can say, is that there are more businesses in there than have been there in quite some time. It's very family oriented and there are a LOT of kids in there. I don't go there often, so I don't know what a normal day is like. Last time I was in there was at Christmas. I had been at Penn and wanted to go to Bath and Body Works and saw the hour long line and walked out. Since I live near 240, I decided to give Crossroads a try and only had 3 people in front of me in line there. The store definitely looks like it hasn't been touched and doesn't turnaround a lot of cash, but it is very convenient compared to Penn.

The place is still struggling for sure. It's got a LOOOOONG way to go. The Market is a total crap flea market. If you want to do an outdoor market, we need more food vendors there and the place needs to be active daily. It's an opportunity to offer items that an outdoor market wouldn't be able to here, because of the winter. In Latin America, it would be THE market in the village. If it's convenient for people and the options are good, they'll go there. So far, they're failing on the quality part. And where are all these clinics/dentists/etc that were supposed to come in and take up mall space to make it a Latino Community Center?

ever since its been plaza Mayor you haven't seen it on the news for crime like it was when it was crossroads mall, it seemed like almost every week something happened there when it was crossroads, so at least the crime has been reduced and last time I was their it had more customer traffic then when it did back 10 years ago in the early 2000s. I don't think it will ever be a grand mall but at least it is something better than what it was 10 years ago

Has it ever been mentioned , that this would make for an excellent site for a major league stadium or NFL stadium? Think of the potential.....

I can imagine stupid traffic on 35/240 exit. Thank goodness I'm not on that part of town.

The Crossroads Mall site would make a great location for a major sports stadium, I agree. The only downside is that the hotels, movie theatre, and other businesses surrounding the mall would very likely be displaced elsewhere. If a stadium was built here, the exits feeding into this area from I-35 and I-240 would certainly be reconfigured to handle the additional traffic. The actual I-35/I-240 interchange will soon begin reconstruction, which will alleviate many issues there, as well.

I was handed some tickets to a wrestling match a couple weeks ago. Turns out it was inside crossroads mall. About 3 doors down from where I dropped quarters in an 80's arcade named "tilt." If was across from what used to be "garfields"....bizarre nostalgia all around. Since I was from a generation that just got dropped off at the mall on weekends with no money and no shopping list. It was like looking through time travel goggles.

While it is nice to dream of a future sports stadium, realistically the site of the former Crossroads Mall would be ideal as a transportation terminal for an over-the-road shipping company.

While it is nice to dream of a future sports stadium, realistically the site of the former Crossroads Mall would be ideal as a transportation terminal for an over-the-road shipping company.

Screw that. At the intersection of two major interstates, the city has a very real interest in making sure there is something important there.

Screw that. At the intersection of two major interstates, the city has a very real interest in making sure there is something important there.

I like reading the discussions on this board of what might be done with available properties. The key word, however, being 'available'. Crossroads/Plaza Mayor is neither available nor up for sale. Dreaming about a stadium there, or a bus/train station there, or a rocket launch pad there, or whatever else we feel like dreaming up, is just idle dreaming. If you wanted a stadium/transport terminal/shipping terminal/launch pad/whatever there, you should have bought the land. You didn't, and the people who did have plans for it. I'm really against using eminent domain just because some people would rather have 'something else' there, and please keep in mind that that is exactly what is being discussed, eminent domain. The literal definition, in fact. Discussing, for example, the Gold Dome, is fine. It's not being used, so discussing what we would like to see there is a valid discussion. But if somebody buys it and puts a grocery store in there (one of the discussions I've seen), the discussions regarding putting a bank in there need to end until such time as Gold Dome Grocers goes out of business and the land/building is available.

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with dreaming up an ideal plan for an area. Of course, if the property isn't available, it's not available; not only that, but there would need to be political will at City Hall to press for eminent domain for a property that is still producing economic benefit and I don't think it's there for this property. But there's no reason whatsoever to shut people down for dreaming up ideas for what could be a higher and better use for a property if/when it does become available.

What's wrong with saying, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if..."?

There is absolutely nothing at all wrong with playing What If?. The point where I think it crossed the line was the comment that the city should make sure there is something important there. It's privately-owned property, the only thing the city should do with it is keep their hands off.

I absolutely do think it's within the city's best interest to ensure that there is something of significance here! In my mind, it's no different than the City acquiring land for the convention center or the C2S park. That said, the City should only exercise it's full power here if private industry is unable to keep the area economically viable; for instance, if the ownership group decided to abandon the mall and was unable to find a new owner within a reasonable amount of time. I think that's generally the mindset of City Hall anyway.

I absolutely do think it's within the city's best interest to ensure that there is something of significance here! In my mind, it's no different than the City acquiring land for the convention center or the C2S park.

And my point, which I still believe, is that this is the literal definition of eminent domain.

Well, yes, of course that's the definition of eminent domain. But I had no argument over the definition - merely that this is an important parcel that the city should have some sort of influence over, should the existing commercial development there completely fail, and that dreaming about what could be here is far from counterproductive. :)

Has it ever been mentioned , that this would make for an excellent site for a major league stadium or NFL stadium? Think of the potential.....

You would have a nice view of the landfill from that stadium... :(

Former Montgomery Ward site sold for charter school
By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record February 9, 2017

OKLAHOMA CITY – A Maryland-based development company has taken stake in an area mall.

Charter Schools Development Corp. purchased the former Montgomery Ward space at Plaza Mayor at the Crossroads. It will be the home of Santa Fe South High School.

The former Montgomery Ward store site has 157,041 square feet.

The ninth- to 12-grade students will have class on the first floor. The second floor is being leased to KIPP South, which will start with fourth grade and add up to eighth grade. The Knowledge Is Power Program already has a middle school in northeast Oklahoma City.

Santa Fe Superintendent Chris Brewster said the new space will allow him to add 300 high school students. The high school’s classes are now held at the former Shields Heights Elementary School on SE 38th Street.

“It still has some bathrooms that were not upgraded since 1908,” he said of the school’s current building.

Raptor Properties sold the former Montgomery Ward to CSDC for $1.86 million. Principal John Wooley II said the company owns most of the mall, with Hudiburg owning the former Macy’s site. Wooley said Raptor is still interested in turning the mall into a community center with restaurant and entertainment venues.

“If we come across an opportunity that we think can benefit the mall and result in a sale, we’d be interested,” he said.

Bryan Buchanan said he might want to buy the old J.C. Penney space, but he wants to test his events there first. Since October, he’s been holding antique shows there monthly. He’s hosting a gun show and an antique show this weekend.

He’s subleasing the space to other shows such as the Just Between Friends consignment sale.

“It’s been going well,” he said. “Everyone loves it better than the fairgrounds.”

He said there are some updates that would have to be made to the J.C. Penney space. But it could be a worthy investment with other show operators calling him often.

“I’ve got like 30 people that are on the fence about moving over here,” he said.

Santa Fe South Schools Inc. will likely become the owner of the former Montgomery Ward space after the new market tax credits end in seven years. CSDC received $10 million in new market tax credits from New Markets Redevelopment, another $6.6 million from an upper-tier leverage loan from Clearinghouse CDFI, $3.3 million in NMTC equity investment from U.S.

Bancorp Community Development Corp., a $1 million sponsor loan, a $500,000 donation from the Inasmuch Foundation and a $500,000 donation from the Walton Family Foundation.

Brewster said $7 million will be spent on renovating the space for the high school. The space will have 45 classrooms, which include science labs, art studios, music rooms and a cafeteria with a commercial kitchen. The sale came with about 10 acres of land, so a gymnasium could be built on the property, Brewster said.

“We’d like to see the expansion of more school choice options in the area,” he said. “We want to keep parts of the mall alive as well.”

Classes will start at the mall in fall 2017. With the high school students moving, the old high school becomes the next elementary school.

“We’re looking for great teachers,” he said. “We’re expanding exponentially.”

He’s subleasing the space to other shows such as the Just Between Friends consignment sale.


Since when? The JBF sale has been at the fairgrounds for years - and the one in April is scheduled there also.

crossroads mall makes for a very interesting case study. i don't really buy into the re-purposing/re-branding concept of plaza mayor. although i think
it does offer tremendous potential to bring it back to life but with a different business plan, redevelopment strategy. for example, that enormous patch
of parking pavement is begging for some greenery. how about the parking is reduced significantly to say, maybe 40% of what it is now and the rest of
the space re-purposed for quality designed landscaping. you can also insert mixed-used, mid sized buildings of 3-5 stories along the new green spaces.
some of the spaces already in the original mall building can be demolished to downsize the overall foot print of the building and make way for other venues
such a great, green, outdoor performance lawn, restaurant exterior patios and farmers market. there is plenty of potential but of course it would demand
an insane amount of money to invest in redevelopment and also a huge risk factor that may ultimately make it an unviable business pursuit. maybe if it
comes from a grounds roots movement...

Shepard Mall is long "dead" but still very much "alive". The same can well happen with Crossroads/Plaza Mayor.

you are right. and i think it is a good thing to make the most of shepperd mall using it as institutional space, especially because it is encrusted in a high density
area with plenty of commercial activity and car traffic. I think the case of crossroads is significantly different because of size, proportions and overall human scale.
i don't know if you have ever been around the crossroads perimeter parking area lately but it feels extremely deserted because the building and parking lot are
so big. it is just personal speculation but i see it difficult for crossroads to transition smoothly into another form of function without considerable intervention;
mostly downsizing and landscaping.

I'm very familiar with the Crossroads grounds and that does make sense. I've thought in the past they should build an inner ring of retail to correspond to the outer ring and also take up some of that cavernous parking...

I'm very familiar with the Crossroads grounds and that does make sense. I've thought in the past they should build an inner ring of retail to correspond to the outer ring and also take up some of that cavernous parking...

yes, that's more or less the point i'm trying to make. i mean, think of an outdoor life style center for example, where you have that inner ring of retail like you mentioned, but with plenty of green spaces, small tree lined sidewalks, mixed car-bike boulevard and street front shops along those sidewalks, bars, restaurants with outdoor patios, and maybe even a hostal. everything at human, pedestrian scale. the old mall building downsized and re-purposed and some town houses on another end of the outer ring. oh, and i forgot to mention street side parking to compensate the taking up of all that ugly parking space around the building.

I Googled "mall redevelopment" and found this concept rendering for Highland Mall in Austin. I would love to see something like this for Plaza Mayor, developing the parking lots into mixed-use buildings and such.

http://www.austinchronicle.com/binary/069d/pols_feature1-3.jpg

This used to be a big mall around the same size as Crossroads. They just razed the mall and turned it into a big strip center. I personally like malls better, I am the kind of person that wants to park once, walk inside, do my shopping and go out, instead of going in and out of different stores, driving to the next one, but then again as a teen I lived inside a mall. 13616

I really think having the mall razed and redevelop the area is the best idea. Although turning it into a strip mall like the example above wouldn't be any better as it's still a building surrounded by a lot of tarmac. Also, malls aren't as big of a deal to teens as they were back in the '80s and '90s. To teens today, it's more a place to go and buy something and then leave. My teens certainly have no desire to hang out at the mall and neither do their friends.

I really think having the mall razed and redevelop the area is the best idea. Although turning it into a strip mall like the example above wouldn't be any better as it's still a building surrounded by a lot of tarmac. Also, malls aren't as big of a deal to teens as they were back in the '80s and '90s. To teens today, it's more a place to go and buy something and then leave. My teens certainly have no desire to hang out at the mall and neither do their friends.

Yeah, it was something teens did before they had cellphones.

Still lots of teens at QSM

Did nobody read the snippet posted by warren? It sounds like the plan is to turn at least part of it into a school. Why all the talk about it becoming something else? (unless you're just tossing ideas around)

I Googled "mall redevelopment" and found this concept rendering for Highland Mall in Austin. I would love to see something like this for Plaza Mayor, developing the parking lots into mixed-use buildings and such.

http://www.austinchronicle.com/binary/069d/pols_feature1-3.jpg

Ultimately, I believe that Plaza Mayor will be, as planned, a stop along the planned commuter rail to Norman. We could very well see a rebirth of Crossroads into a TOD similar to your posting, if the desire is there.

Unfortunately, and as a native Southsider, the general land use and economic activity isn't quite conducive. Ex: Landfill directly east, Valley Brooke., strip bars, industrial use near by, low rooftop count immediately adjacent, and overall inconvenience to access; even considering the new interchange. It just isn't a desireable destination at this point and there are many factors contributing to that conclusion.

Unfortunately, and as a native Southsider, the general land use and economic activity isn't quite conducive. Ex: Landfill directly east, Valley Brooke., strip bars, industrial use near by, low rooftop count immediately adjacent, and overall inconvenience to access; even considering the new interchange. It just isn't a desireable destination at this point and there are many factors contributing to that conclusion.
I disagree completely. None of those thing were major factors in the downfall of the mall. In fact, as I've mentioned here before, there was a strip club directly at the mall when it was at it's height. I don't find the access to get there nearly as bad as Quail Springs or even Penn Square.

I disagree completely. None of those thing were major factors in the downfall of the mall. In fact, as I've mentioned here before, there was a strip club directly at the mall when it was at it's height. I don't find the access to get there nearly as bad as Quail Springs or even Penn Square.

Agreed. Wasn't it called Crossroads because it is at the crossroads of two interstates? It is laughably easy to get to, especially when compared to the traffic cluster(you know what) that is Quail Springs. And if the interchange is the issue, come in from the North. Problem solved.

I disagree completely. None of those thing were major factors in the downfall of the mall. In fact, as I've mentioned here before, t5here was a strip club directly at the mall when it was at it's height. I don't find the access to get there nearly as bad as Quail Springs or even Penn Square.

And that's okay. I hope you're right and these aren't contributing factors against its revival.

I will note that Pole Rd and one direct exit to 66th is not sufficiently easy access... Especially if it were to become a popular destination once again.

Access is an excuse the mall has used for years to try to explain away the downfall. Even if Pole Rd isn't there and you have to go to Eastern, it's still easy to get to. A mall is a destination, and people will drive to get to the destination. Going through a few more stoplights won't change that. It can take longer for people to navigate the city streets to get to Quail or Penn. Really Sooner and Shawnee are the only ones that are actually 100% easily accessible by the interstate.

Does anyone actually remember lines to get into the parking lot at Crossroads....ever? There's absolutely zero chance of it being as busy as Penn Square. It's a matter of what retail looks like these days, not just that it's Crossroads, or where it is.

Agreed. Wasn't it called Crossroads because it is at the crossroads of two interstates? It is laughably easy to get to, especially when compared to the traffic cluster(you know what) that is Quail Springs. And if the interchange is the issue, come in from the North. Problem solved.
It's laughably easy to see from the interstate. Exiting and actually getting to it can be a chore. If you're not familiar with the area, you can get on the wrong road and have difficulty getting there. But no, you won't have to deal with the traffic like you would at Qauil or Penn. About the only traffic you deal with at Crossroads is a tumbleweed. But that's been the case for at least 20 years.

I hope the school going in there brings some positive to it. Based on my observation, the reason it closed was due to criminal element. People were getting robbed in the parking lot, and quite a bit of shoplifting going on. When those become every day occurrences, people go somewhere else, and stores pull out due to inventory shrinkage combined with a lack of cusotmers. We took the kids there to the Christmas thing that is there in the old arcade space this December, and they thought it was pretty neat inside and wanted to know why all the stores were empty. That is when I broke out the economics lesson.

Last time I was there to shop (many years ago), I was parking near the Macys (think it was Foley's back then). I saw two younger guys bolting out of the east door running with some clothes. Security was chasing them but losing. As they kept running and appeared that they were going to get away, a very long train came through, and they were unable to cross the tracks, and they got caught. It was the funniest thing I have ever seen.

Access is an excuse the mall has used for years to try to explain away the downfall. Even if Pole Rd isn't there and you have to go to Eastern, it's still easy to get to. A mall is a destination, and people will drive to get to the destination. Going through a few more stoplights won't change that. It can take longer for people to navigate the city streets to get to Quail or Penn. Really Sooner and Shawnee are the only ones that are actually 100% easily accessible by the interstate.

Does anyone actually remember lines to get into the parking lot at Crossroads....ever? There's absolutely zero chance of it being as busy as Penn Square. It's a matter of what retail looks like these days, not just that it's Crossroads, or where it is.

Great post, but I think people are already missing the context of my post. Which is that this area, Crossroads, is a planned stop along our planned commuter rail to Norman. With that stop comes the potential for a TOD or retail revival of some sort. I think it would be awesome to see a TOD with Crossroads incorporated.

Rooftops nearby, desirability, and access are definitely contributing factors as to whether a TOD or revival of the area can be achieved, or if the stop will serve just as a Park and Ride station. IMO. I think the potential is there, but not without hurdles to overcome.

Does anyone actually remember lines to get into the parking lot at Crossroads....ever? There's absolutely zero chance of it being as busy as Penn Square. It's a matter of what retail looks like these days, not just that it's Crossroads, or where it is.

I remember because I worked there in college from 1979 to 1982 and during busy times traffic would back up onto the interstate.

I don't disagree with the rest of your post and think the access is way more than adequate, but during its hey day Crossroads was crazy busy with plenty of traffic snarls.

I remember because I worked there in college from 1979 to 1982 and during busy times traffic would back up onto the interstate.

I don't disagree with the rest of your post and think the access is way more than adequate, but during its hey day Crossroads was crazy busy with plenty of traffic snarls.

I'll second this, since I don't have a 'Like' button :) :) :)

People below a certain age don't realize what Crossroads was back when it was A Thing. That I-240/I-35 junction was largely undeveloped. A retail center of that magnitude was a monstrous upgrade for the region that had been served by strip centers such as Reding, Grant Square, or even TG&Y farther up I-240, or the City of Moore shopping center a few miles south. And Crossroads didn't just attract the south OKC/Moore area - it attracted customers from every corner of the city. It didn't have just national retailers like JC Penny and Wards, it had formerly great *local* retailers like John A. Brown, Emmer Brothers, and Napoleon Nash. It was unique in Oklahoma City. And it had *throngs* of people going there at its peak, which I can also attest to both as a shopper and someone who worked there off-and-on during college, even as its popularity was starting to ebb.

I remember as a kid walking through Crossroads when it opened, just awestruck at the size and scope of the place as a nine-year-old in 1974, sipping an Orange Julius and getting to play some pinball and video games at the LeMans Speedway.

I realize that in its present, kinda sad state (present rehab efforts notwithstanding), it's nearly impossible for anyone to imagine that it once legitimately was a *great* destination and had a sense of grandeur. The only other "malls" in that era were Penn Square, which was an open-air, single-floor mall at that time, and Shepherd Mall, with large retailers like Sears (back when they were a thing, too). (There's a separate story about Sears Reding moving to Crossroads that fell through, but that could merit its own discussion).

There are *lots* of reasons for Crossroads' demise - no magic bullet. And some aspects of its demise have, shall we say, been somewhat embellished over time. But anyone straying over into the idea that Crossroads wasn't a great spectacle for that era risks treading into a bit of revisionism.

When it opened, it was OKC's only megamall and drew people from all over the state and beyond.

I worked at Orbach's (fine men's store) from 1979 to 1982 and we had tons of customers from all over, as they were usually happy to tell you they had driven in from somewhere remote.

We drove from Tuttle just about every Sunday to go there when I was a kid. My grandfather loved to go there and people watch. He would set by the fountain or you could occasionally catch him down at Winchell's having a cup of coffee.

We had every video game demo system in the mall mapped out as well as freebies. I would get $2 to spend, most of which was spent at Le Mans, and I would usually go find grandpa and hit him up for another $1 which always came with a "Don't tell your grandmother I gave you that" a wink and a single scoop of praline and cream from Baskin Robbins.

We would play the Ataris, Colecovisions, and Intellivisions until the department stores would run us off and then we would go hit Hickory Farms for free cheese, summer sausage, soup, and hot tea samples multiple times in between heading to the next free video game display.

Does anyone remember the ice cream palor? It had a Victorian era theme. Loved that place and cried when it closed.

I remember that tight ass pet shop they had.

Does anyone remember the ice cream palor? It had a Victorian era theme. Loved that place and cried when it closed.

Yes, that was Farrell's. I went there many times to take my kids.

Great post, but I think people are already missing the context of my post. Which is that this area, Crossroads, is a planned stop along our planned commuter rail to Norman. With that stop comes the potential for a TOD or retail revival of some sort. I think it would be awesome to see a TOD with Crossroads incorporated.

Exactly. A regional transit system is in the works for OKC and the Crossroads site could well see a commuter rail station as part of that system. It's great to see others thinking about how rail transit could help transform this area.

In 2012, the OKC Urban Land Institute, South Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce and Oklahoma City Planning Department were partners in a project called Envision 240, which looked at what could be done to revive the I-240 corridor between Will Rogers Airport on the west and Tinker AFB on the east, including the Crossroads Mall area.

At the time, I was involved in the ongoing rail transit planning initiatives taking place in OKC and started researching other redevelopment projects for outdated malls involving rail transit service. I was surprised when I found a 2011 Austin ULI report on the Highland Mall in Austin, Texas that was in the planning stages for mixed-use redevelopment, including a commuter rail station. This is the redevelopment project mentioned earlier by KayneMo. I provided this information to OKC ULI, but unfortunately there wasn't much consideration given to it in the final Envision 240 report. I'm not sure why that was.

Here's a link to a 2011 article describing the Austin ULI effort:

Preparing for Takeoff - Plans Underway for Major Redo of Airport Boulevard and Highland Mall (http://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2011-10-21/preparing-for-takeoff/)

What's interesting is just how similar Highland Mall was at the time to Crossroads Mall today in terms of its condition, size, location to downtown Austin, proximity to a potential commuter rail line, and its potential to serve as a significant mixed use development anchor for a major transportation, retail and business corridor in decline.

Here's a few more images from the Austin ULI presentation:

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13627

13628

13629

13630

The Highland Mall redevelopment is currently underway. It will certainly be transformative for that area of Austin. Crossroads Mall will provide a similar opportunity for OKC once we get a regional transit system in place and commuter rail in operation.

in my opinion a commuter rail stop at crossroads could ultimately save the site from demolition. i am not sure what the number of passengers who
would potentially displace themselves through this transit system axis might be, but if it is a considerable number of commuters then it makes total sense
to include crossroads as a convenient stop. i think, however, that for ultimate success all the strategies mentioned above could be the right recipe for a rebirth
of this shopping center. the commuter rail line can be the backbone of new development that could foster a more accessible, pedestrian friendly surrounding
for institutional space (charter school) and retail, housing and entertainment. they should hire a really good architecture/planning firm, however, to design
an innovative master plan for the entire site and surroundings to successfully define and project the site's tremendous potential.

dense shopping areas are an excellent place to put stops. The problem is getting the stop to the location. Crossroads is one of the few that is sitting on the proposed routes (like Sooner). There are a handful of other areas that are close, but not quite close enough (ie MWC Town Center). For these things to really be successful in removing cars from the road, we need <1/4 mile walk from the stop to the destination. No damn bus switch either. Obviously every area isn't going to be able to do this so it has to make sense in the planning. But if we can do it. then for sure jet off a side line for the couple of hundred yards it takes to get the rail up to the doors of Crossroads. Lord knows there's plenty parking lot space there to get a line in/out!

One worry i wold have is if it appears to show favoritism to a particular private investment and so would someone else that may get excluded, sue the city over this and end up dragging out legal battles? Think if the line ends up going north and across Memorial, it'll probably stop at Quail. So having stops at Sooner/Crossroads/Quail, Penn Square isn't near the planned lines for any foreseeable future. Would they get their panties in a twist by feeling excluded? Which side of I-35 in Moore do you stop on near 19th? Does the other side make a big stink about it? That kind of thin. I'm sure other cities have been through this though.

in my opinion a commuter rail stop at crossroads could ultimately save the site from demolition. i am not sure what the number of passengers who
would potentially displace themselves through this transit system axis might be, but if it is a considerable number of commuters then it makes total sense
to include crossroads as a convenient stop. i think, however, that for ultimate success all the strategies mentioned above could be the right recipe for a rebirth
of this shopping center. the commuter rail line can be the backbone of new development that could foster a more accessible, pedestrian friendly surrounding
for institutional space (charter school) and retail, housing and entertainment. they should hire a really good architecture/planning firm, however, to design
an innovative master plan for the entire site and surroundings to successfully define and project the site's tremendous potential.

Not to throw too much reality into the mix here, but as much fun as it is to dream of what 'we' might want for Crossroads (and I am in no way discouraging discussing these dreams), something we should probably keep in mind is someone else also had dreams...and that someone ponied up the cash. Nothing is going to "save the site from demolition" because it isn't up for demolition.

Hutch, I think one of the major problems with that I-240 corridor improvement between the Airport and Crossroads is that a majority of that I-240 frontage are apartments, many of which are owned by out of state property groups, and they really don't care about major improvements, but just want the revenue from those complexes. Getitng them to "spruce up their places" will be a challenge, as they really could care less. I would love to see it visually improved, but it is going to be a major production to get done.

I remember that tight ass pet shop they had.

This made me laugh.

Do you mean tight as in small or tight as in good?

You could always open your own pet store - Panda's Tight Ass Pets :cool:

Which side of I-35 in Moore do you stop on near 19th? Does the other side make a big stink about it?

Since the existing rail right-of-way is east of I-35, I don't think there would be any debate about that.

Hutch, I think one of the major problems with that I-240 corridor improvement between the Airport and Crossroads is that a majority of that I-240 frontage are apartments, many of which are owned by out of state property groups, and they really don't care about major improvements, but just want the revenue from those complexes. Getitng them to "spruce up their places" will be a challenge, as they really could care less. I would love to see it visually improved, but it is going to be a major production to get done.

Majority? There are quite a few between 35/44, but it's a HUGE stretch to say they cover the majority of the road. And i believe most of them are concentrated right near Penn. I'd agree that getting them to clean up would be difficult, but if you look at them, you can tell the ones your probably speaking of are also low income housing. So there's not going to be a lot of extra profit around to spend on a look from the highway. Probably the best thing you could hope for is some large trees to block the view.

But some of them aren't really bad looking. The one on the south side of 240 just west of May redid the facade several years ago to what it is now. If you remember, each unit had a different "look", even on the same building. Now at least it's consistent. The one on the south side near Western...Santa Fe looking whatever, is in good shape. 240 Place or something, i feel like is done well. The rest...not so much. But there's a big difference in rates between those complexes too. Then there's the middle ground with the north side one...Something Ridge. It's not bad looking for apartments it's age either. Really i think the crappy ones are the ones between Penn and Western on the south side, and they all happen to be right in a row.

While we're at it, let's talk about the crappy 7-11. The usually abandoned vet clinic that's been a million things (next to Chick Fil A). The ever crappy looking Office Depot that always looks like it should be closed, so they put up a sign that says "yes we're open".

But in general terms, i dont think that this section of 240 really looks all that bad. There are very few spaces that are empty, and those seem to always be empty.

Majority? There are quite a few between 35/44, but it's a HUGE stretch to say they cover the majority of the road. And i believe most of them are concentrated right near Penn. I'd agree that getting them to clean up would be difficult, but if you look at them, you can tell the ones your probably speaking of are also low income housing. So there's not going to be a lot of extra profit around to spend on a look from the highway. Probably the best thing you could hope for is some large trees to block the view.

But some of them aren't really bad looking. The one on the south side of 240 just west of May redid the facade several years ago to what it is now. If you remember, each unit had a different "look", even on the same building. Now at least it's consistent. The one on the south side near Western...Santa Fe looking whatever, is in good shape. 240 Place or something, i feel like is done well. The rest...not so much. But there's a big difference in rates between those complexes too. Then there's the middle ground with the north side one...Something Ridge. It's not bad looking for apartments it's age either. Really i think the crappy ones are the ones between Penn and Western on the south side, and they all happen to be right in a row.

While we're at it, let's talk about the crappy 7-11. The usually abandoned vet clinic that's been a million things (next to Chick Fil A). The ever crappy looking Office Depot that always looks like it should be closed, so they put up a sign that says "yes we're open".

But in general terms, i dont think that this section of 240 really looks all that bad. There are very few spaces that are empty, and those seem to always be empty.

BIngo. I can't fathom anyone wants to do ANYTHING with that vet clinic, but it's probably too expensive to tear down without a new purpose in hand. I once asked if that Office Depot was going to close, and the manager told me, "Oh, no. Not this one. Office Depot actually owns this building and it's an important part of the entire OKC Office Depot presence, not just as a retail store." I infer from that they use it for bulk inventory and office deliveries. That place barely looks much different from when it opened as a Handyman Lumber back around 1977. If they're going to stay there, I wish they'd at least put a new facade on it to freshen it up a bit. It looks Just Awful, and the interior isn't much better.

I wonder if the charter school was working on that deal before Heritage closed? That old Best Buy is probably already configured for a school setting.

Speaking of which, that whole area after Heritage left is now dead. Oklahoman's must love their steak because Texas Roadhouse is always busy. I still wonder about the longtime fate about that AMC. They survived one Warren Theater, but can they survive being sandwiched between two?

https://freepressokc.com/what-happened-plaza-mayor/

https://freepressokc.com/what-happened-plaza-mayor/

Panda, thank you for sharing this article. It answered alot of questions I had about the project.

I'll admit maybe it's because I'm reading it with this bias in my mind, but I always got the impression that the owners wanted this to BE a cultural center, but never wanted to put the work into MAKING it a cultural center. This article just further reinforces this belief, they brought in some people who did realize the work it would take, and have had success in doing so in other places, and then just ignored the very people who would have made it happen.

At a crossroads: Owners put Plaza Mayor up for sale

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record February 8, 2018

OKLAHOMA CITY – Plaza Mayor is for sale, again. But its next life likely won’t be as a retail center.

The property, previously known as Crossroads Mall, is owned by CRM Properties Group LLC. The company purchased it in 2011.

“We want someone to come to us with a plan,” said Roddy Bates, with Raptor Properties. Raptor has been overseeing the redevelopment of the mall.

“We have a lot of heart and soul in the property,” Bates said. “We want to see it redeveloped in some form or fashion. We are not just trying to sell it to the highest bidder.”

The Price Edwards retail investment team is representing CRM in the sale. Broker Paul Ravencraft worked with Bates to buy the property originally. Retail investment brokers Phillip Mazaheri and George Williams are working on the sale this time as well.

The property is listed for $8.27 million, which includes the mall building and 63.31 acres.

But there could be multiple new owners. The property can be sold in a minimum of 10-acre tracts.

“We feel like the acreage of the land that’s just sitting on the interstate is just valuable as land itself, whether it’s with the building or not,” Bates said.

The entire mall isn’t for sale, as it’s owned by three entities. CRM Properties Group owns the west side of the property, the southern anchor space, and the center’s entire middle section. The company’s part totals more than 800,000 square feet.

Maryland-based Crossroads QALICB LLC owns the space that was home to Montgomery Ward, but it is now occupied by Santa Fe South High School. The charter school started classes there in August 2017. The second floor is being renovated for KIPP South Community Preparatory School.

The northern anchor space for what was formerly Crossroads Mall is owned by DLH Properties LLC. The Hudiburg Auto Group has a parts department at the building.

With a school and auto-parts warehouse on the property, the ownership wants the next owner to be sensitive to those two different users.

Ravencraft reiterated on how valuable the land could be to a development, with Interstate 35 and Interstate 240 creating the property’s perimeter.

He and Bates said the mall will likely not be used for retailers.

“I don’t think retail is where this deal goes,” Ravencraft said. “It’s zoned industrial. But it could also be used as a school hub or government offices.”

South Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce President Elaine Lyons said there is a need in the city’s south sector for office space. She said there’s also been talk of turning the empty space into an educational center. Bates said the former anchor retailer spaces could become schools, and the interior space could be businesses that support the staff and students.

Lyons said the South Chamber was supportive of Raptor when it attempted to turn the mall into a Hispanic retail center. The chamber gathered area business leaders and visited the former Fort Worth mall that’s now a Hispanic retail center. It’s anchored by a Fiesta grocery store.

She said the chamber wants to see the property stabilized.

“You don’t want it to become an eyesore,” she said. “It’s obviously visible. The high school students there need to be in a good environment, and you don’t want that area to deteriorate around them.”

Ravencraft said the retail investment team plans to work with Price Edwards’ office investment brokers and the industrial investment brokers to find suitable buyers.

“It’s not going to be retail,” Bates said. “It has to be something different in today’s market.”

I'll admit maybe it's because I'm reading it with this bias in my mind, but I always got the impression that the owners wanted this to BE a cultural center, but never wanted to put the work into MAKING it a cultural center. This article just further reinforces this belief, they brought in some people who did realize the work it would take, and have had success in doing so in other places, and then just ignored the very people who would have made it happen.

I think it was a lot simpler than that: When they got into the nitty-gritty details of getting those "incubator" businesses started, they discovered that the number of such potential businesses was nowhere *near* what they expected. They tried mightily, in my view, because no small amount of money was spent modifying the old Dillard's space to facilitate the open-air market/bazaar concept where the incubator business were supposed to start. They carved out a monstrous chunk of the floor between levels 1 and 2 and had cleared out the rest of the space in a manner I interpreted to be in expectation for growth - growth that just never happened.

What I saw the last few times I went to the place just before it closed was that a few businesses had grown out of incubator status, and a few were now occupying larger, more conventional retail spaces, but the overwhelming chunk of the mall was still vacant with remnants of past tenants, incomplete construction, and general debris within.

I may be completely wrong, but I think they really wanted and tried to apply the incubator concept. They just vastly overestimated how much fuel there was to start the engine - but once they realized that, it was too late.

I just think the incubator concept is outdated. If your trying to get a new business off the ground, the cheapest way to do that is online retail and social media marketing. A physical space needs to be super cheap if that's the route you want to go.