Since when was Barnes and Noble going out of business?


Barnes and Noble isn't expanding though, their kinda of just holding steady. If they do expand their brick and mortar operations in the future it will be into smaller stores.

Half-Price books doesn't even get new books when they release.

Since when was Barnes and Noble going out of business?

Maybe, I missed something. Did I say Barnes and Nobel was going out of business? Are they the ony national book retailer?
Book stores in general are going the way of the video outlets. There will still be some around but it's a fading business.

Their not expanding either. If they do expand their brick and mortar operations in the future it will be into smaller stores.

I'm not sure if you're referring to Barnes and Noble or Half Price Books. If you're referring to Half Price Books, that's not quite accurate.

http://www.hpb.com/press/2011/press_release_01-17-2011.html
http://www.hpb.com/press/2011/press_release_03-01-2011.html

I'm not sure if you're referring to Barnes and Noble or Half Price Books. If you're referring to Half Price Books, that's not quite accurate.

http://www.hpb.com/press/2011/press_release_01-17-2011.html
http://www.hpb.com/press/2011/press_release_03-01-2011.html

Sorry, I forgot to quote. I was talking about Barnes and Noble.

Spartan, what do you have against the very few BINGO places across the metro?

Sorry, what do you mean? I guess they have to go somewhere. Just saying it's not going to translate into competitive economic development for south OKC.

Sorry, what do you mean? I guess they have to go somewhere. Just saying it's not going to translate into competitive economic development for south OKC.

I have totally no interest in and never frequent the bingo parlors but you have to admit they fill up the parking lots. That has to translate into some benefits for adjoining businesses.

I have totally no interest in and never frequent the bingo parlors but you have to admit they fill up the parking lots. That has to translate into some benefits for adjoining businesses.
If you call trashed filled parking lots and illegal parking a benefit, then yes.

[/B]
If you call trashed filled parking lots and illegal parking a benefit, then yes.

LOL. That could be any parking lot in any shopping center in OKC. Having a bingo parlor has nothing to do with that.

In St. Louis, where I live, there are at least 2 or 3 malls that have gone the way of Crossroads.

I thought this announcement today was interesting. Jamestown Mall was built about the sane time as Crossroads and was apparently a big deal for a while. But the area around it never grew and is now in very real decline. While the surrounding area has better demographics than Crossroads,(for the time being) the worst parts of the city are creeping in and the mall has been abandoned.

Nevertheless, after an exhaustive year-long process, this was unveiled today:

www.slcec.com/jamestownmall.html

Not sure what the difference is between OKC and STL but it seems the community is taking a pro-active approach to reimagining and redevelopment before it gets too bad. I wonder if the powers that be in OKC would undertake such a project? I promise, this area is only marginally better than the Crossroads area, and this is a more isolated location. Just food for thought.

I want to see an entertainment district surrounding the mall. There are plenty of good locations for that. The southeast corner of the I-240 and I-35 provides plenty of space for a theme park (not relocation of Frontier City), but a suitable theme park mixed with water park and a hotel to go in there. If OKC was not managed by uptight morons, we could also add in a casino there or two. We need entertainment. That is it. We have stupid retailers building nearby down the highways instead of locating inside Crossroads. So, entertainment is our last hope before going the way of "Shepard Mall" business/government mall. Hell, a casino can transform an anchor completely, both inside and out. We have a hotel in the area, but there is the need for more hotels. Repayed parking with more landscaping. Put in a major outdoor fountain or two.

It can be done. WE JUST NEED BUSINESS OWNERS TO JUST FRICKIN TAKE THE RISK!!! And we need customers to start SUPPORTING the mall by actually SHOPPING. Get it going. GO GO GO!

If OKC was not managed by uptight morons, we could also add in a casino there or two.

Thunder, it's obvious that you have no clue what it takes to get a casino approved in particular location. OKC's "uptight morons" have very little say about anything like that.

Yes they do. They can start working with the state government.

It is true that Mayor Cornett was definitely cool to the idea (almost frigid) when a casino was proposed in Bricktown. When the same tribe proposed building a resort complex out near Frontier City, the Mayor was against it as well. That said, ljbab728 is correct, there are a myriad of legalities that prevent a casino from being in most of OKC. Crossroads location may be just on the fringe area but still there are multiple levels tribes have to go through to get land put into trust so they can build a casino. Not just any tribe can build where ever they want to, they have to have a historical claim to the area in question (this is why you don't see competing casinos from the various tribes built next to each other. Remington Park in OKC only got there because it was one of the "Racinos" approved in the State Question several years ago. Then representative (now Governor) Fallin was also opposed to the one by Frontier City for the above stated reasons. Unlikely now that she is governor that she would support it by a statewide vote or other means.

Yes they do. They can start working with the state government.

Thunder, there are some who would suggest there are far more uptight morons at the state government level than any city government level, even more than all the uptight morons you can find in the combined greater metro area. Some would even opine they tend to also be even more uptight and moronic than their local government cousins, and nearly on par with their federal government cousins.

In any event, an absence of casinos inside OKC is not as simple as you seem to think it might be.

Crossroads is simply going to become a redlight district, full of strip clubs and prostitute centers.

Casinos don't have to be managed by tribes.

Thunder, it is my understanding that under Oklahoma law they do (unless they are one of the state approved "Racinos"), pre-existing horse racing facilities were allowed to add slot machines on the premises. So basically, to get a non-tribal casino built it would most likely have to be approved at the state level and probably would have to be another Racino. Oklahoma city would be just as opposed to it because it would be direct competition with Remington Park. The casino and horse racing facilities are apparently scattered throughout the state where they have their own territories to avoid direct competition. Then again, there may be a moratorium t=on Race Tracks too, so that might also have to be changed. Not saying it can't happen but it isn't as simple as someone just buying the land and starting construction.

Well, Oklahomans can join together to push for a change. How about annual % of the profits for education?

Well, Oklahomans can join together to push for a change. How about annual % of the profits for education?

I think that has already been tried, Thunder. Most Oklahoma gambling issues are supposed to support education. And Indian gaming is not just a state issue. I'm not saying your idea is frivoulous, just that it is is "pie in the sky" and won't happen.

Agree with the above, we aren't trying to go all "wet blanket" on you Thunder, just helping you and others that have suggested the same thing many times, that it isn't as easy as it sounds. I personally enjoy casinos and have spent many a vacation in Vegas. Have also spent a few bucks locally but don't seem to win as often (with Vegas, I often break even on the gambling and sometimes pay for the trip too!). Have yet to break even locally. But I look at it as my entertainment expense (as opposed to movies, theme parks etc) and don't gamble more than I can afford to lose.

LOL. That could be any parking lot in any shopping center in OKC. Having a bingo parlor has nothing to do with that.

But it may be an inverse relationship thing, I'd imagine that the bingo parlors are a big part of "what is wrong" with south OKC in terms of many things.

They need to turn the entire area into something retail oriented, so southside can see more spending.

They need to turn the entire area into something retail oriented, so southside can see more spending.

No. Get it through your thick head already. This thread has been literally 48 pages of you asserting that Crossroads has to stay retail and other people telling you that it's best for the southside to move on and abandon ship. Get over Crossroads already.

Now commence 48 more pages of this.

The only way I could see CRM becoming viable retail again would be to implode the place and start from scratch. Then build something pretty amazing and put a lot of resources to insuring it was a safe and pleasant experience, and a better experience than Penn Square. Megabucks.

But I think it's too late...MWC and Moore now have their own retail centers. The rest of us southsiders go to Sooner or Penn Square if only a mall will do.

The Crossroads site is better suited for industrial, which is what has always surrounded it. If there were any new shopping developed down there it would more than likely be a lifestyle center where one of the older strip malls are located, but as long as those are generating some revenue then the owners will never be forced into it.

No. Get it through your thick head already. This thread has been literally 48 pages of you asserting that Crossroads has to stay retail and other people telling you that it's best for the southside to move on and abandon ship. Get over Crossroads already.

Now commence 48 more pages of this.

LMAO! Buddy, I didn't say CRM had to remain. I'm over CRM. Just because I said they need to turn the ENTIRE AREA into SOMETHING retail oriented, doesn't mean I meant CRM.

LOL again.

The only way I could see CRM becoming viable retail again would be to implode the place and start from scratch. Then build something pretty amazing and put a lot of resources to insuring it was a safe and pleasant experience, and a better experience than Penn Square. Megabucks.

But I think it's too late...MWC and Moore now have their own retail centers. The rest of us southsiders go to Sooner or Penn Square if only a mall will do.

Even a retail center like the ones in MWC, Moore, and Reno and Mcarthur would do. That's better than having a stupid office complex, or inudustrial crap.

LMAO! Buddy, I didn't say CRM had to remain. I'm over CRM. Just because I said they need to turn the ENTIRE AREA into SOMETHING retail oriented, doesn't mean I meant CRM.

LOL again.

Outside of flea markets, retail at Crossroads is not feasible. AT ALL.

Let's recap the previous pages:

1) Demographics around Crossroads are no longer retail friendly. Reputable national retailers will not return to the area.
2) The general geographic area is saturated with the types of chains that historically been in the Crossroads area. The types of stores that used to be in the periphery of Crossroads have moved west, east, and south.
3) The Crossroads area is not conducive for 21st century retail growth.

The fantasy that Crossroads will return to its glory days even with a brand new rebuilt mall is pure fantasy. It's that simple.

But it may be an inverse relationship thing, I'd imagine that the bingo parlors are a big part of "what is wrong" with south OKC in terms of many things.

Spartan, I live in a nice area of NW OKC that has a bingo parlor in a shopping center about a mile from me. It's not a south OKC problem.

Outside of flea markets, retail at Crossroads is not feasible. AT ALL.

Let's recap the previous pages:

1) Demographics around Crossroads are no longer retail friendly. Reputable national retailers will not return to the area.
2) The general geographic area is saturated with the types of chains that historically been in the Crossroads area. The types of stores that used to be in the periphery of Crossroads have moved west, east, and south.
3) The Crossroads area is not conducive for 21st century retail growth.

The fantasy that Crossroads will return to its glory days even with a brand new rebuilt mall is pure fantasy. It's that simple.

Not a rebuilt mall. I was thinking more of a huge plaza.

^^^
Where is SandRidge when/where you need them? LOL

^^^
Where is SandRidge when/where you need them? LOL

I forgot that I'm not on facebook because I was looking for the like button

Casinos don't have to be managed by tribes.

Yes they do.

There are two types of gaming in Oklahoma, Class II (bingo-based) and Class III (vegas-style games-poker, video poker, house-banked blackjack, three card poker, and such).

Tribes can engage in class II gaming under the authority of the Indian Gaming Regulatory act (IGRA) which provided for the regulatory structure that allows gaming on indian land. Non-tribal entities are not covered by IGRA. Therefore non-tribal entities cannot engage in class II. So class II gaming is eliminated for non-tribal entities.

Bingo halls are allowed but that is because of some other law which I am not familiar with. I do know that bingo halls cannot have gaming machines in them.

Now for class III gaming. Each tribe that has class III gaming has a gaming compact with the state. Included in these gaming compacts is a provision for exclusivity. Any casino operating against a tribe's gaming compact, ie within that tribe's exclusivity area, has to pay 50% of their adjusted gross revenues (defined as revenues minus prize payouts) as a penalty. No casino in their right mind is going to pay 50% of their operating revenue to the tribes. And the state will shut down a casino operating without a gaming compact. So that takes care of class III gaming. Non-tribal entities cannot operate a class III casino because they would be in conflict with existing gaming compacts.

In short...there will be no casino's in Oklahoma City.

Yes they do.

In short...there will be no casino's in Oklahoma City.

Except for Remington Park.

Except for Remington Park.

Only because it was one the the "Racino" exceptions established by state law. I would imagine if the Racing portion were to fold, the Casino would have to vanish too. The argument at the time was that to save the horse racing industry, slot machines or casinos had to become part of the operation. Thats why I thought it odd that the Remington/Horse Racing Industry folks saw a casino as putting them out of business. They did have some valid points that the Racinos are limited on the number of machines, hours of operation etc that don't apply to the tribal owned casinos. COmpetition is usually seen as being a plus, but if it unfair competition...

The Remington situation is further complicated since it is owned by a tribe that doesn't have a historical claim to the area (but I think they got around that by buying an existing facility). Also think I read somewhere, the tribe only bought the facility and not the land it is on. Think the land is owned by the Oklahoma City Zoo Trust or something like that. Know the Zoo and the Science Museum (Omniplex) gets some kind of revenue from Remington (rent, a portion of wagering or what I don't remember).

Its beena month with no new info, is this mall going to last another year, get torn down, what etc, its odd that prime property is just blah nothing happening!!!! any news..

Its beena month with no new info, is this mall going to last another year, get torn down, what etc, its odd that prime property is just blah nothing happening!!!! any news..

I moved my store there. Come shop and buy, buy, buy!!! I got skyhigh rent to pay Crossroads management!!!

i just left crossroads thunder!!! you do not have a shop there, you lied to me!! Cant believe i fell for it, and the bad part is while i was in crossroads, someone stole all my tires off the my car and my wallet was picked out of my pocket, then when i though that things couldnt get any worse, i looked down and notice someone in that mall stole the shoes off my feet!!!

i just left crossroads thunder!!! you do not have a shop there, you lied to me!! Cant believe i fell for it, and the bad part is while i was in crossroads, someone stole all my tires off the my car and my wallet was picked out of my pocket, then when i though that things couldnt get any worse, i looked down and notice someone in that mall stole the shoes off my feet!!!

OMG, neither OKCTALK or Thunder can be held liable!!! :-O

This thread began three years ago come Sunday. Whenever the end may ultimately come, it's safe to note "apparently not" on the original question.

perhaps the time is near on a geologic scale. -M

The Oklahoma County Assessor's office sure has been complicit in one hell of a conspiracy to hide that sale that took place a year ago. For the life of me I can't remember who was on that crusade to convince everyone that the county assessor, The Oklahoman and the feds were trying to prevent the public from learning that a sale had taken place and it was to be converted into a wholesale mart. Good times, good times....

Sometimes I wish we had "like" buttons - I'm always looking for one!

Its beena month with no new info, is this mall going to last another year, get torn down, what etc, its odd that prime property is just blah nothing happening!!!! any news..

The mall will probably be like Heritage Park. They will stay open until the cost of operating the place overshadow the income. Heritage Park did not even bother turning the lights on inside the mall in the final months. I take it Sears must have shelled out some cash or backed the owner of the mall into the corner. As of a few days ago the parking lights were on and bright as daylight on the Sears parking lots. Lifechurch is about to open in the old Dillards. Maybe LifeChurch could buy Crossroads and turn the place into a giant catherdal just like Joel Olsteen did with old Compaq Center in Houston complete with a 150 statue of Craig Groeschel in the Christ the Redeemer pose facing the Crossroads interchange.

Or we could just move Crossroads Church into it?

If not mistaken, Sears owns their building that is connected to HP. Apparently, that is not uncommon for anchors to own their space (from comments made by others)

If not mistaken, Sears owns their building that is connected to HP. Apparently, that is not uncommon for anchors to own their space (from comments made by others)
That is common, we are doing a remodel of Midland Park Mall in Midland, Texas and all the anchor stores are owned by their respective companies. There are even access flags on the property which complicates some permitting. Austin Community College has bought most of the Highland Park Mall and anchors adjacent to one of their buildings and will be converting much of it to classroom space. It has pretty much gone down the same path as Heritage Park and Crossroads. Developers who handled the sale also plan on building housing and retail on the out parcels.

The Oklahoma County Assessor's office sure has been complicit in one hell of a conspiracy to hide that sale that took place a year ago. For the life of me I can't remember who was on that crusade to convince everyone that the county assessor, The Oklahoman and the feds were trying to prevent the public from learning that a sale had taken place and it was to be converted into a wholesale mart. Good times, good times....

Good times? If that constitutes good times for you, that must be one heck of a boring life to live, in my opinion.

It was me. I guess since nothing's been mentioned I can say this.

My friend, Sacha, worked trade show exhibits. He worked for Crane Displays before quitting. He was asked by the potential buyer of CRM to come on as a person who run trade shows inside the old JC Penny's location, which would have served as a function for dealers/wholesalers only, while the rest of the marketplace was open to dealers/wholesalers/consumers.

My friend, has a friend on Facebook, who was good friends with the lady who was going to buy the building. She is someone, who I think, helps to run CRM and offered him a job.

I guess things fell through, because obviously, we don't have the marketplace up when the timeline said it would be up.

I got my info from a lady running a sporting good shop near the old Spencers, who said the deal was signed and done, so don't kill the messenger. My friend said he was offered a job, so don't kill the messenger. My eye doctor, who used to run a store inside the mall, said he attended state meetings where things were happening. Again, don't kill the messenger.

I won't lie and say I am offended by the idea, that I feel you're mocking me for trying to be helpful. I was mocked then, but since I dropped the ****, I shouldn't be mocked now. If one has nothing better to do in life, than to mock someone at that time or a year after, really leads a pitiful existence?

Steve, would this happen to be you?

http://blog.newsok.com/davemorris/files/2009/10/mo_lack_tan_500.png

The one in the front passenger seat? From the paper, right? Ever heard "if you don't have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all?" I mean, what could I say about you? A lot. I choose to be the bigger person, however. Just sayin'.

Maybe instead of mocking people a year later, you would love to be in the position of a little girl who was thrown into a swamp, alive, poisoned and bound in the heat to die, while their mother parties? Maybe you would like to die at the age of 2, while the one who died at the age of 2 gets to live in your shoes and might do better in life than mock others? There is more to life than hoarding the internet, mocking others who try to bring info here, and just overall take advantage of life, in ways those who died either defending us or at too young a age wouldn't.

Again, just my opinion. Again, just sayin'.

don't hate the playa, hate the game baby.

much simpler. fewer keystrokes too.

It seems like we have another "Dana" on here. Say it ain't so.

http://newsok.com/federal-reserve-owned-crossroads-mall-crossed-off-oklahoma-city-retail-property-survey/article/3584106?custom_click=lead_story_title

Interesting. Just a quick read of it, but sounds like it is just something akin to a creative accounting move. It still exists just pretend that it doesn't until/if it sells?

Interesting. Just a quick read of it, but sounds like it is just something akin to a creative accounting move. It still exists just pretend that it doesn't until/if it sells?

I'm not sure that it really has much to do with accounting since it doesn't appear to involve money in anyway. Just an adjustment in the way of reporting statistics.

Wow, a 75% reduction in price.

Wow, a 75% reduction in price.

Yeah, its great, because that can encourage an investor to buy it and turn the place around like PSM.

700,000+ square feet for $6million--I have an idea to save the new convention center alot of money and also to do something with the rotting carcass of Crossroads mall! why does a convention center need to be downtown anyway? they would have plenty of room to construct their fancy convention hotel too!

700,000+ square feet for $6million--I have an idea to save the new convention center alot of money and also to do something with the rotting carcass of Crossroads mall! why does a convention center need to be downtown anyway? they would have plenty of room to construct their fancy convention hotel too!

I like the idea. You could save enough on construction to put in a rail line to downtown.

Would it still be within walking distance of Bricktown? LOL

Oklahoma City's Raptor Properties buy Crossroads Mall from Federal Reserve (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-raptor-properties-buy-crossroads-mall-from-federal-reserve/article/3603937?custom_click=lead_story_title)

The new owners hope to revive retail at the long-troubled mall and return it to its former reputation as a southside destination.

Here's a link to FOX25's report on the sell... http://www.okcfox.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kokh_vid_3994.shtml

Here's a link to FOX25's report on the sell... http://www.okcfox.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kokh_vid_3994.shtml

They are real lazy. This is all they had to say.


From new stores, a new design, and maybe a new name, the new owners of Crossroads Mall promise big things from this takeover.

The rest was about a fruit or vegetable killing Oklahomans. lol