Define "southside". Because really, if you are only speaking of the area north of 240, you're leaving out half of the "southside". There are two very distinct parts to the south metro....but last time I checked, the precious NW side was the same way. There's some real crap up that way folks, in fact, that's one of the larger gang areas.

Don't lump Capital Hill in either because that's technically central.

So again, i ask, define "southside".

Speaking for the "south of 240" crowd, Sooner Mall in Norman gets a lot of our business. With the growth of retail in Moore, we don't feel underserved. Seems to me the only area that doesn't have a mall fairly closeby is the Mid-Del crowd. Maybe they drive to Shawnee?

who on earth would drive to Shawnee to shop, that makes no sense. any of the metro malls would be closer and offer a better selection

Define "southside". Because really, if you are only speaking of the area north of 240, you're leaving out half of the "southside". There are two very distinct parts to the south metro....but last time I checked, the precious NW side was the same way. There's some real crap up that way folks, in fact, that's one of the larger gang areas.

Don't lump Capital Hill in either because that's technically central.

So again, i ask, define "southside".

I think of OKC in terms of quadrants. The natural dividing lines are Broadway/Shields and the N. Canadian River.

As for the southside having the mall it deserves, it is generally thought that Crossroads was the mall which served that part of town. The residents in that area chose to patronize retail establishments in Moore and Midwest City rather than their mall. The crime down there, presence of gangs whatever, that's all irrelevant. Those stores would have stayed open if people were buying things from them. That didn't happen and won't happen.

who on earth would drive to Shawnee to shop, that makes no sense. any of the metro malls would be closer and offer a better selection

Ah, that would be Eastern Oklahoma Countians wanting the nearest Dillard's or Sears.

An interesting case is JCPenney. JCP was one of the original anchors since the '70s. They announced the closing of the CRM location in '07 along with plans for new stores in Moore and MWC.

It's apparent to me that JCP market research concluded the local JCP customer base was still here, it's just that the customers did not want to go to CRM. CRM did not provide a pleasant/safe experience. The market spoke and JCP responded.

I think of OKC in terms of quadrants. The natural dividing lines are Broadway/Shields and the N. Canadian River.

As for the southside having the mall it deserves, it is generally thought that Crossroads was the mall which served that part of town. The residents in that area chose to patronize retail establishments in Moore and Midwest City rather than their mall. The crime down there, presence of gangs whatever, that's all irrelevant. Those stores would have stayed open if people were buying things from them. That didn't happen and won't happen.

BZZT! Wrong...

First off, the merchants kept demanding the owner of the mall to modernize the place, as it was dark and outdated. The owner refused their request. That makes merchants unhappy. Why? Look below.

The merchants were unhappy about losing business to places like Quail Springs and Penn Square Mall, due to their renovating to bring those malls up to modern standards. What didn't help matters also, is that Crossroads Mall owners got a case of the greeds and kept charging high rent to the merchants, whose needs weren't being met.

It has nothing to do with gangs. The mall looks uhly inside, even when full. The floors are straight out of 1974, and they did little to improve the mall like merchants and customers wanted.

If gangs came into play, I guess the rising crime at Penn Square Mall means that mall is on its deathbed, right? Wrong again. That mall is flourishing, and even has a one of a kind store in Oklahoma, like the Lego Store. You didn't see that going to Quail Springs, despite the lack of bad news surrounding that mall. It went to a place where crime is rising.

I doubt bootleg thugs, crooks, whatnot said, "oh, okay. We cleared out Crossroads Mall with our antics. Time to make sure another mall dies now. Fellow gangmembers, unite. We march forward to Penn Square Mall. We don't stop until that mall is dead. We have a hidden grudge against malls."

The owners were at fault, because they wanted to capitalize on money, while not meeting the needs of the merchants.

I don't find it one bit coincidental that Heritage Park Mall suffered the same fate, and we didn't hear about all sorts of crime coming from that mall either.

It was greed that killed CRM and HPM. They had the same owners, and aparently, they liked brown.

Megax, there's a lot of folks I know who would say you just nailed it.
(But the mall still hasn't sold)

BZZT! Wrong...

First off, the merchants kept demanding the owner of the mall to modernize the place, as it was dark and outdated. The owner refused their request. That makes merchants unhappy. Why? Look below.

The merchants were unhappy about losing business to places like Quail Springs and Penn Square Mall, due to their renovating to bring those malls up to modern standards. What didn't help matters also, is that Crossroads Mall owners got a case of the greeds and kept charging high rent to the merchants, whose needs weren't being met.

It has nothing to do with gangs. The mall looks uhly inside, even when full. The floors are straight out of 1974, and they did little to improve the mall like merchants and customers wanted.

If gangs came into play, I guess the rising crime at Penn Square Mall means that mall is on its deathbed, right? Wrong again. That mall is flourishing, and even has a one of a kind store in Oklahoma, like the Lego Store. You didn't see that going to Quail Springs, despite the lack of bad news surrounding that mall. It went to a place where crime is rising.

I doubt bootleg thugs, crooks, whatnot said, "oh, okay. We cleared out Crossroads Mall with our antics. Time to make sure another mall dies now. Fellow gangmembers, unite. We march forward to Penn Square Mall. We don't stop until that mall is dead. We have a hidden grudge against malls."

The owners were at fault, because they wanted to capitalize on money, while not meeting the needs of the merchants.

I don't find it one bit coincidental that Heritage Park Mall suffered the same fate, and we didn't hear about all sorts of crime coming from that mall either.

It was greed that killed CRM and HPM. They had the same owners, and aparently, they liked brown.

I think you need to read Midtowners post again.




The crime down there, presence of gangs whatever, that's all irrelevant.

I agree with you about poor management. However, now that those stores are already gone with many investing in standalone buildings, any future Crossroads owner needs to think "outside the box" in order to bring life back to the mall.

Megax, there's a lot of folks I know who would say you just nailed it.
(But the mall still hasn't sold)

It's the truth.

I talked to many merchants there, and I believe some merchants came here and spoke about the situation, on the "End of Crossroads" thread.

HPM and CRM both suffered the same fate, because they both had the same owners, who wanted more ching-ching. More money, while spending less on the mall, while charging more rent, makes for unhappy merchants and customers.

LOL, maybe they knew we were heading for a recession, so they got whatever money they could and bailed out. They probably own a grand mall in another state, where they devoted the money from these two malls, to keeping that mall up to modern standards.

I agree with you about poor management. However, now that those stores are already gone with many investing in standalone buildings, any future Crossroads owner needs to think "outside the box" in order to bring life back to the mall.

Literally. They need to round the mall, instead of keeping it square. Square is so 70's/80's.

HPM and CRM both suffered the same fate, because they both had the same owners, who wanted more ching-ching. More money, while spending less on the mall, while charging more rent, makes for unhappy merchants and customers.

LOL, maybe they knew we were heading for a recession, so they got whatever money they could and bailed out. They probably own a grand mall in another state, where they devoted the money from these two malls, to keeping that mall up to modern standards.

Please get these facts straight too. Heritage Park and Crossroads weren't owned by the same company. HP was owned by Simon, and Crossroads was owned by Macerich, although both were sold off to different owners within the past few years. And yes, both companies do have a number of very nice malls elsewhere (in the case of Simon, right in OKC/Tulsa).

I think it is rather interesting that nobody has bought it. I think there are some serious mechanical and structural issues that are not being revealed to the public. Otherwise a developer or mall management company would have jumped on it back when it was advertised at $9 Million when it went to foreclosure auction. From what I understand, nobody bid on it. You know PB Odom, Brewer, Express Personnel and several other companies have that kind of money laying around like pocket change. It could easily be geared toward industrial use or renovated as a shopping destination.

Unfortunately, It is too late for it to become a shopping destination again. It will most likely become a mixed use industrial/business park or an event center.

Sadly at the time, OKC was just another joke city. Time has changed and I think this would be a fantastic time for auction.

Sadly at the time, OKC was just another joke city. Time has changed and I think this would be a fantastic time for auction.

It doesn't need to be up for auction.

It won't be a mixed industrial blah-blah-blah that all non-southsiders want to see it be (so they can hog retail for themselves).

It will be a shopping district again. It's only a matter of time.

It's as this dude here says -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQMOKJW79IE&feature=related

Please get these facts straight too. Heritage Park and Crossroads weren't owned by the same company. HP was owned by Simon, and Crossroads was owned by Macerich, although both were sold off to different owners within the past few years. And yes, both companies do have a number of very nice malls elsewhere (in the case of Simon, right in OKC/Tulsa).

Actually his point was correct. There were many owners outside of Simon at HPM. And even Simon themselves said they didn't buy HPM to make money. They bought it to take that money and put it into their other malls for upgrades. Right out of the horse's mouth, that's part of where Penn Square's updates came from in 2000-2001. I'm honestly not making that up folks...they admitted it in an email to me...didn't even try to hide it. They weren't interested in updating HPM, only letting it tread water and then sell it.

As a corporate plan, it worked out very well for them. They managed to help create the most profitible mall per square foot in America (PSM) and then sold off HPM to the next schmo. By then it was too late though. While there actually were plans drawn up for upgrades to HPM, they never materialized because the place had fallen out of repair (and lost tenants) so bad that it wasn't going to be able to float. When the storms came through and they couldn't even afford to remove the old Montgomery Ward sign from where it had fallen over the main entrance....that was the death sentence to the mall that had been on the Green Mile for a decade.

There was a brief rebound in the late 90's, but it was short lived. It's unfortunate, but really the more MWC started gaining momentum as a retail area again, the more HPM died off. I've really seen the same for CRM. The more MWC/Moore develop their interstate retail, the more CRM doesn't have a purpose. Years of neglect can't be made up for with paint.

Actually his point was correct. There were many owners outside of Simon at HPM. And even Simon themselves said they didn't buy HPM to make money. They bought it to take that money and put it into their other malls for upgrades. Right out of the horse's mouth, that's part of where Penn Square's updates came from in 2000-2001. I'm honestly not making that up folks...they admitted it in an email to me...didn't even try to hide it. They weren't interested in updating HPM, only letting it tread water and then sell it.

As a corporate plan, it worked out very well for them. They managed to help create the most profitible mall per square foot in America (PSM) and then sold off HPM to the next schmo. By then it was too late though. While there actually were plans drawn up for upgrades to HPM, they never materialized because the place had fallen out of repair (and lost tenants) so bad that it wasn't going to be able to float. When the storms came through and they couldn't even afford to remove the old Montgomery Ward sign from where it had fallen over the main entrance....that was the death sentence to the mall that had been on the Green Mile for a decade.

There was a brief rebound in the late 90's, but it was short lived. It's unfortunate, but really the more MWC started gaining momentum as a retail area again, the more HPM died off. I've really seen the same for CRM. The more MWC/Moore develop their interstate retail, the more CRM doesn't have a purpose. Years of neglect can't be made up for with paint.

CRM will have a purpose soon-ish.

I like to think that southside always innovates, while the other sides of town imitate. CRM was the premier mall at one time, now it will be the premier whatever it is next, that others will wish they had.

Not only does CRM have to compete with Moore and Midwest City but it also has to compete with the 240 retail corridor, that is literally down the road, as it has seen quite an explosion these past few years.

Not only does CRM have to compete with Moore and Midwest City but it also has to compete with the 240 retail corridor, that is literally down the road, as it has seen quite an explosion these past few years.

I wouldn't call it an explosion though. Many of the buildings up and down 240 are still ran down, while the rest are filled with carlots, and the new plaza even saw two store closings, while one will be empty as of November 1st. The other was filled with a bootleg bookstore, that can never compete with Barnes and Noble and Borders.

It's a sad thought that I have to say this, but the only real work that was done to 240, was the 240 Penn Plaza, which is now 4 years old.

I was posting on the Mid-Del forum about something and it made me think about this. Here's a good example of how after all these years, we can see that nothing really changed at CRM. Here are a few shots from the opening of the mall...the Midwest City High band apparently "paraded" around inside as part of the opening. Noticing how it really hasn't changed much???

http://bomberband.com/pictures/7576/crossroads2.JPG
http://bomberband.com/pictures/7576/crossroads.JPG

I was posting on the Mid-Del forum about something and it made me think about this. Here's a good example of how after all these years, we can see that nothing really changed at CRM. Here are a few shots from the opening of the mall...the Midwest City High band apparently "paraded" around inside as part of the opening. Noticing how it really hasn't changed much???

http://bomberband.com/pictures/7576/crossroads2.JPG
http://bomberband.com/pictures/7576/crossroads.JPG

Uhh, is that a boy in the middle picture at the bottom?

Uhh, is that a boy in the middle picture at the bottom?

Looks like you will be busy with the investigation. :-)

I was posting on the Mid-Del forum about something and it made me think about this. Here's a good example of how after all these years, we can see that nothing really changed at CRM. Here are a few shots from the opening of the mall...the Midwest City High band apparently "paraded" around inside as part of the opening. Noticing how it really hasn't changed much???

http://bomberband.com/pictures/7576/crossroads2.JPG
http://bomberband.com/pictures/7576/crossroads.JPG

I'm assuming that the "Kappa Psi Kappa" at the top of the photo is supposed to have some reference to the band fraternity. Anyone who was ever in it like I was at OU knows that it's supposed to be "Kappa Kappa Psi". A little off topic but that really stood out to me.

It doesn't need to be up for auction.

It won't be a mixed industrial blah-blah-blah that all non-southsiders want to see it be (so they can hog retail for themselves).

It will be a shopping district again. It's only a matter of time.

It's as this dude here says -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQMOKJW79IE&feature=related

So,

Who all is going to the big grand opening tomorrow of the Market Center? It IS opening tomorrow, right? Isn’t that what the power point said?

How did construction go? Do they have the new website up? How did your buddy do building all those displays?

And hey, how is the new Dillard’s outlet doing during this Christmas season?

So,

Who all is going to the big grand opening tomorrow of the Market Center? It IS opening tomorrow, right? Isn’t that what the power point said?

How did construction go? Do they have the new website up? How did your buddy do building all those displays?

And hey, how is the new Dillard’s outlet doing during this Christmas season?

It is one of the busiest shopping places at the mall right now. I have never seen the parking lots so crowded like that in years! Gotta love Christmas.

I agree that a lot of it has to do with greed, but a lot of it has to do with demographics as well. Look at the demographics around the malls that are flourishing.

You can't really blame management for all of the woes, although I agree both HP and CR needed renovating. But, in regards to HP, remember that Simon built that mall and leased it to the very end, so if it wasn't for Simon it never would've been built to begin with. Simon must've done something right in those earlier years. I think the demographics around HP have just changed. Same can be said for the southside in general...more people moving money outside of south OKC and to Moore and Norman. Same could be said for Penn Square, but Penn Square has Nichols Hills, Crown Heights, etc. keeping it alive. Quail really has the most potential, in an elite growing part of the city.

Its been over a month and no talk about this place, anything new going in or anything panned to tear down?

Maybe someone can check in with the brother of the attorney who goes to the eye glasses store there.

The past holidays season was really busy at the mall. Parking lots was much more packed and traffic were high.

I hear they're getting a new 'Forties and Knives.'

I hear they're getting a new 'Forties and Knives.'

It will be right next door to "Sneakers and Stabbings."

I think JCPenney should put an outlet store in thier old space at Crossroads. I doubt it will happen though. It would bring some traffic back in to the mall. Same with Dillards if they put a clearance center in thier old space.

Last I heard it was going to be the worlds largest Ikea

I actually went to Bath and Body Works for a Christmas present....it's way easier for folks on the east and south side than trudging up to Penn or something. It's sad that there are so few stores compared to even 10 years ago, but you know what I surprised about? There are still as many stores as would fill Heritage Park. Not to say that they had anyone shopping at them though. The busiest area was the kid area in the middle....other than that it was pretty dead in there. This was a Saturday afternoon in December...prime shopping time for Christmas. I still say give it another 10 years and it will be empty. It was really dark compared to what it used to be...but they did add an elevator (which was a lifesaver with a stroller).

10 years? It likely doesn't have 10 months. Now that the holidays are over you should see stores really starting to close at a rapid pace.

Unless of course Mega has another dream.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but just took this picture of Crossroads earlier today. She's starting to take on water.

661

I hear they're getting a new 'Forties and Knives.'

Ahem...It's pronounced Fo-Tee's and Chivs...........................:cool18::LolLolLol

Whats happening this Crossroads now then???

That was just painfully stupid.

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD48Nz-SaWI

Skip to 6:08 for my example."

That was just painfully stupid.

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD48Nz-SaWI

Skip to 6:08 for my example."

Karen, this has absolutely no connection to the topic of this thread and is totally inappropriate for posting here. There are many places where the language used on that clip is acceptible but this isn't one of them. There are minors who visit here frequently. Please continue to contribute but without things like that.

Karen, this has absolutely no connection to the topic of this thread and is totally inappropriate for posting here. There are many places where the language used on that clip is acceptible but this isn't one of them. There are minors who visit here frequently. Please continue to contribute but without things like that.

Whoa ljbab! Karen was commenting with quote but not using the code to do so. The original posting was from mega on page 1 of this thread.
Agree its inappropriate, but wasn't from Karen. Just sayin'..

And back to topic - as one of the (possibly) few people on the forum who worked at CRM on opening day, I would love to see it return to the thriving center that it was. Although I love MWC's Town Center, I find it difficult to do much window-shopping or browsing because of health issues with cold weather. I'd love an indoor mall to walk in again - and yes, some walkers spend money!

Whoa ljbab! Karen was commenting with quote but not using the code to do so. The original posting was from mega on page 1 of this thread.
Agree its inappropriate, but wasn't from Karen. Just sayin'..

And back to topic - as one of the (possibly) few people on the forum who worked at CRM on opening day, I would love to see it return to the thriving center that it was. Although I love MWC's Town Center, I find it difficult to do much window-shopping or browsing because of health issues with cold weather. I'd love an indoor mall to walk in again - and yes, some walkers spend money!

Laurie, I was one of those working there from the day it opened, at Penelope and Richard's Comedy Shop, a high fashon clothing store. Where did you work?

I worked at Orbach's starting in '79, so just a few years after it's opening in Feb. of '74. Not much changed there for the first 5 or 6 years and it really was a thriving, vibrant place.

I haven't been in for years but last time was about 10 years ago and even then it was a thoroughly depressing experience.

There is no way it will make it as a retail mall -- maybe not even until the end of this year. But I'm sure another use can be found.

Laurie, I was one of those working there from the day it opened, at Penelope and Richard's Comedy Shop, a high fashon clothing store. Where did you work?

I was the assistant manager at Frederick's of Hollywood. (Sigh) the cute little blonde, back in the day! We closed the MWC Frederick's and moved to CRM - I'll never forget the excitement of opening day and the fun of working at such a modern place!
And Pete - I'm sure you're right, but that doesn't mean a girl can't have memories.

Heck, Laurie, I'll bet we were two of the coolest folks there at the beginning. lol

Heck, Laurie, I'll bet we were two of the coolest folks there at the beginning. lol

No doubt, USG - lol - I can remember wearing hot pants with fishnets and LMDAFM heels to work.
Now it's hot flashes, support hose and lace-up SAS shoes.

I used to shop at Orbachs, over that store. Wasn't it two stories outside of Pennys? Spent many a dollar there and looked all so cool. http://www.prebble.com/80sFashionFile.html

http://70slife.com/wp-content/gallery/freeforall/mens-fashion-70s.jpg

I used to shop at Orbachs, over that store. Wasn't it two stories outside of Pennys? Spent many a dollar there and looked all so cool. http://www.prebble.com/80sFashionFile.html

http://70slife.com/wp-content/gallery/freeforall/mens-fashion-70s.jpg

That bottom picture looks horrible

I used to shop at Orbachs, over that store. Wasn't it two stories outside of Pennys?

It was next to John A. Browns which later became a Dillards.

There were two parts... The one right next to the department store was first The Manhole then the Varsity Shop, both owned by Orbach's but with a younger slant. When it became the Varsity, they opened up a doorway that connected with Orbach's next store, which was only one level. Lots of suits, sportcoats, dress shirts, ties, shoes and some sportswear (mainly Izod and Polo).

I worked there for three school years while I was attending OU. Many, many breaks spent at LeMans playing video games.

I thought Crossroads always had a Dillards.

Whoa ljbab! Karen was commenting with quote but not using the code to do so. The original posting was from mega on page 1 of this thread.
Agree its inappropriate, but wasn't from Karen. Just sayin'..
My apologies to Karen. I didn't catch that she was referencing a link from a previous post. With that said though, I don't think it's a link I would ever bring up a second time. It's just totally out of line for our forum.

I thought Crossroads always had a Dillards.

As I recall, Dillards bought out John A. Brown and there were two Dillards stores at Crossroads for a while.

I was doing a Google search for OKC Wholesalers and this link was the very top one.

http://www.okcmarketcenter.com/ppt/index.html

What really interests me is that they hid the main/home page, but the other pages is still there, such as this one.

Real sad that the plan was a bust. :-(

.....

Btw, a side question... Does anyone know any places locally to buy wholesale? I looked into Quality Pets, but there is a requirement having people to provide proof of business and business permit. Sucks for me, cuz I really would like to set up shop. So, anywhere locally that is open to the public?

You mean it wasn't real? Dayum, Next thing ya know, I'll be hearing that there are no CRM Zombie specials for Valentine's Day.
Color me bummed, but not with latex based paint. ick.

oh but there is a CRM Zombie special, check out the Victoria secrets after hours on Valentines day, the Zombies will be dressed in some of victorias secrets sexiest undergarments for your screaming pleasure. There is also the ghosts of crossroads mall, but that wil be told later.. poor ghost the girl use to work for orange julious, sad no one ever told her spirit the place closed.

Whats happening this Crossroads now then???

Nothing. That's the problem.

Thunder - both Penn and Quail are closer to their highways than Crossroads. I guess you never looked out the window on the Bell Isle bridge on I-44 to see JC Penny's??? And it's pretty hard to miss the theater at Quail (That's attached to the mall) from either Memorial or the Kilpatrick.

Crossroads however, has always had an access problem. From Eastbound 240 you either have to go north on 35 and loop around the back, or you have to take Pole rd. Westbound 240 you have to again, either take 35 north or take Eastern....about 1/2 mile from the mall. That's not even to get on the property, that's just to get to the next road to get you there. Yeah of course if you're going to the mall, you're going to do that. But it's not the most ideal situation for access.

Thunder - both Penn and Quail are closer to their highways than Crossroads. I guess you never looked out the window on the Bell Isle bridge on I-44 to see JC Penny's??? And it's pretty hard to miss the theater at Quail (That's attached to the mall) from either Memorial or the Kilpatrick.

Crossroads however, has always had an access problem. From Eastbound 240 you either have to go north on 35 and loop around the back, or you have to take Pole rd. Westbound 240 you have to again, either take 35 north or take Eastern....about 1/2 mile from the mall. That's not even to get on the property, that's just to get to the next road to get you there. Yeah of course if you're going to the mall, you're going to do that. But it's not the most ideal situation for access.

I think access to Crossroads Mall is just fine. I believe it is not the access that crippled the mall.

Correction: Crossroads Mall is the closest to 2 highways, I-35 and I-240. PSM is close to I-44, but you have to pass the mall on westbound I-44 and exit on Penn (?) and go north toward the mall. Going eastbound on I-44, I am not sure, but I think there may be signs informing drivers to specific exit ramp. As for QSM, they are on Memorial far from I-35 and is not visible from the highway.

There are several signs pointing drivers where to exit for Crossroads mall on I-35 and I-240. The mall is very visible on both of these highways.

I think access to Crossroads Mall is just fine. I believe it is not the access that crippled the mall.

Correction: Crossroads Mall is the closest to 2 highways, I-35 and I-240. PSM is close to I-44, but you have to pass the mall on westbound I-44 and exit on Penn (?) and go north toward the mall. Going eastbound on I-44, I am not sure, but I think there may be signs informing drivers to specific exit ramp. As for QSM, they are on Memorial far from I-35 and is not visible from the highway.

There are several signs pointing drivers where to exit for Crossroads mall on I-35 and I-240. The mall is very visible on both of these highways.
I agree, Thunder. Road access to Crossroads has never been it's problem.

Agree, location of being at the crossroads of 2 interstates has never been a problem and was a major plus for them for a long time. Think a lot of their problems began when ODOT ruined the access with the ongoing construction in the area. How long has it been now? Seems 10+ years it has been messed up. ou really have to want to go there to navigate thru the mess and most don't want to deal with it, especially when other shopping options have become available within a short drive (all the new stuff along the I-240 area and the development in Moore. Didn't most of the Crossroads anchors relocate to Moore? Once you lose your anchors...there goes the ship