The tenants didn't leave oringally because of paying the AC bill, they left because nobody shopped there anymore and they made no money. I'm just giving a brainstorm of why I think that it is dead because it's not visible to the heavy traffic passing by everyday, and with Dillard's lead it's a good oportunity for someone with money to make use of the site. Energy certainly will not get cheaper, but if the systems were updated the energy bills would be minimal compared to what there were 20-30 years ago when the place was thriving.I may not have done a very good job of stating the issue. Let's say a retailer can pay between 6% and 8% of sales for his space including Common Area Maintenance (CAM). So if a location can provide sufficient traffic that a retailer can earn gross revenues of say $400 per sf then that retailer might pay between $24 and $32 per sf for rent including CAM. Now retailers demand that CAM is capped so they know the upper limit but that's not always been true. So some of the older leases at Crossroads simply provided that retailers had to pay their proportionate share of the cost of maintaining the common area which is huge. So it was possible that someone had a good lease rate but because of the CAM be unable to be profitable. Crossroads was built when we didn't worry too much about the cost of energy.

I've been told that just the cost of bringing the facility up to minimum usable standards is immense. The cost of renovating to make it energy efficient would be undoubtedly even greater.

If there were no other problems a prospective owner would still have to either invest or finance these improvements. The state of the retail economy is allowing almost no development even in really good areas. And Crossroads isn't in a good area and there are other problems.


And as far as cars, this one of the biggest suburban cities in the US, their not going away. Its good to have the whole mixed use and urbanism ideal, I'm all for it, but that won't happen overnight so a mojority of the people going anywhere will be depending on the automobile. And the BN coment was an ideal comparing several malls in Dallas where they are a large tenant and it seems to work out great, they are always full, its just something to magnet people to other stores and there isn't one in the area, it doesnt have to be in a 2-story anchor location, but something quite a bit larger than the bookstore that was there.Let's say you were going right by Crossroads and you needed something from JCP back when they were there. The problem was that it took a long time to then acquire your purchase and get back on the road. KSS noticed this trend early on and really profited from it by building off mall stores. And there are so many other demographic changes that have also occurred since 1972 they are too numerous to mention.

Stores except for a very few retailers are not getting larger either.


I don't no as much about everyone elses malls, but Crossroads is pretty close to where a lot of people live and work, and all those people go elsewhere to shop because nothings there. Maybe visibility isnt everything, and I don't suggest dozing everything, but they could at least clean up the development that is empty and plan it a little better, TX road house, the theater etc. are fine...
Quail Springs is pretty well developed on most sides, but it works because most of it is restaurants that face memorial road and when people are through eating, they can go walk around a comfortable mall and spend more money and see a movie or something.
And I like open are shopping centers too, its back in, but we have a lot of that, and I'm just thinking a revitalized Crossroads is just something different.

Don't worry about not knowing everything because most of the people that thought they knew everything found out that what they knew didn't fit a world that is changing more rapidly than it is sometimes possible to confront.

Rather I think it is best to try to think outside the box and try to imagine what some of the trends we now see will bring in the near future. I think it isn't likely to be a Crossroads retail center.

Market areas are very funny things. If someone had a fool proof way of knowing how and why and when and where they wouldn't likely be posting on OKCTalk. But suffice it to say that market areas change on their own and they change even more rapidly when government gets involved. And government certainly did not help Crossroads.

I've said this before but all you can see from I-35 is the loading dock of Best Buy and that back of the ugly strip center that backs up to the highway all the way to 66th street. If all of that density was cleared out and you could actually see the big mall on the hill, it would attract more stores. I think whoever runs the place should offer to renovate the JCP location and offer to work with Best Buy to relocate there, and start cleaning up the density so you can see the mall, maybe offer a few nice restaurant chains along the highway, clean up the large parking lot and add better lighting and landscaping. They should cater to stores that aren't in the other OKC malls, like BN or Borders (there are cool 2-story bookstores in Dallas malls), ToysRus, a sports store, anything really... it just seems like a huge waste of infastructure and good for Dillards for giving it a shot.
I know the 'in' thing now is open air malls but but they were all originally run out of business by enclosed malls, now there is this huge waste, whatever the price tag is on that building it is far less than what could be built today, and its in good condition, it just needs a facelift and that's cheap construction, where are all the MAPSesque developers with $$ ?
If it had unique stores/anchors and a nice food court like PennSquare, it would be a great alternative around the metro, and one thing PennSquare can never compete with is Parking, I would rather not go there just because of the traffic jams, and around the Holidays, forget it.
I was in kid in the 80's and you could still see the cool pyramid roof structure going on from the highway, that's a unique symbol that attracts people, but as long as you can't see the place nothing will happen there. How about bring it back and LED-light the pyramids at night? Be sustainable.

This would be great if the mall weren't on the wrong side of I-35. Location, location, location. Crossroads' location will never be able to support any of that. The demographics won't support the biggest bookstore in OKC either. Crossroads also doesn't have the visibility, connectivity, and nearby density of Capitol Hill or 44th/Western.

But suffice it to say that market areas change on their own and they change even more rapidly when government gets involved. And government certainly did not help Crossroads.

Seriously?

Yeah I know..because Crossroads is such a treasure that should be brought back, lets have a MAPS for Crossroads next.

Seriously?

Yeah I know..because Crossroads is such a treasure that should be brought back, lets have a MAPS for Crossroads next.
I certainly didn't mean that if that's the idea you gained from my post.

In 1972 there was no I-240 there.

I've said this before but all you can see from I-35 is the loading dock of Best Buy and that back of the ugly strip center that backs up to the highway all the way to 66th street. If all of that density was cleared out and you could actually see the big mall on the hill, it would attract more stores. I think whoever runs the place should offer to renovate the JCP location and offer to work with Best Buy to relocate there

Word on the street is that Best Buy is very interested in relocating to the old Circuit City store at I-240 and Penn. . .

I think a lot of this is location. Not accessibility, but location. As in close-by demographics and rooftops. Most of what is around Crossroads is lower middle class, poverty, and industrial. Sure, within a few miles you have plenty of middle class and upper middle class. But those people have to drive some further than just around the corner, and those people increasingly thought, "I'll drive to Penn Square. It'll only take me like 10 minutes longer, and I'll have a modern interior, higher quality and better selection. Plus when I park at Penn Square I look out over upper middle class houses and other shopping; when I park at Crossroads I look at industrial buildings." Crossroads never gave the right "feel" inside or out.

This has little to do with accessibility. Tell me that Penn Square is easy to get in and out of. Just try. If malls failed and survived based on accessibility, Penn Square would have failed long ago. It is a nightmare to get in and out of, especially from I-44. But at Penn Square you get a good feeling inside and out.

Other than not being updated and looking dated, Crossroads' neighborhood just doesn't project a good feeling to those who spend a significant amount of money at malls. Crossroads is not the only entity who has had a problem with this in that area. First Southern Baptist Del City has also struggled with it (though that area is getting better as more housing is built). A staff member there once told me that when they relocated there they saw it as an area that was growing with middle income new housing. But after they moved there industrial is what took off. They were left nearly in the middle of an industrial park. But there was still plenty of available land and that has since started to fill in with some housing. Not a great comparison, but perhaps some insight into that area that doesn't have that middle class or upper middle class "feel."

I agree with your post Brian, but I think a lot of people are attributing that good feeling to a mall being successful in the first place--sort of a chicken and egg deal. Which comes first, success and business and resources to make a nice mall, or a nice mall that attracts business, etc.

That's just why location is so important because it can influence growth and get things going that otherwise wouldn't. There's nothing wrong with the southside for business and retail. There's everything wrong with Crossroads though--it's a bad location for the southside.

Matt......Why would Best Buy want to move to a location half the size of their current building?

Matt......Why would Best Buy want to move to a location half the size of their current building?

I have been wondering the same thing but here in Jacskonville the two new Best Buys have been a reduced size with limitied merchandise. We have one large Best Buy near the Avenues Mall and if I can't find what I want at my new local Best Buy they tell me to go over there. It is the same with Staples now as well.

Matt......Why would Best Buy want to move to a location half the size of their current building?

You got me. Just repeating what I've heard from someone in the know.

Matt......Why would Best Buy want to move to a location half the size of their current building?Probably just a sign that more people are buying online and not just at the Best Buy site.

Probably just a sign that more people are buying online and not just at the Best Buy site.

It seems to be a marketing strategy. Have one big store that carries the full line of merchandise with smaller store that only carry the best sellers. The Best Buy that just opened near me doesn't even have a full line of movies and video games. They ony have around 15tvs on display, and no more than 15 laptops to pick from. If I go to the fully functional Best Buy they have like 40 tvs on display and a full line of software titles, video games, etc.

I am willing to bet the traffic flow for the Crossroads location has slowed down drastically since Midwest City, Moore, Norman and West OKC all have Best Buy stores. They really don't keep the Crossroads store if traffic has dropped. They have a distrubution center in Ardmore so anything they need to order can be here in usually no more than one-two business days. Not to mention having six stores in Oklahoma City makes it to were you no longer need a store with a huge warehouse on it.

I know at one time they were talking about moving the May Avenue store to better location because that store is usually one of the lower performing stores. If and when it does move it will likely relocate somewhere off of NW Expressway not to far from the current location. However, this was a few years back when Circuit City was still alive and kicking. Now that CC has closed, the store maybe doing fine right where it is at.

Not to get too far off-topic, but BB's also looking at opening a new store in Edmond next to the Walmart on I-35, from what I hear.

What I have heard is that they wouldn't be in the old CC spot but that they would be in the expansion planned to the Odom development.

They opened up a new Best Buy here in Austin last week in the former Circuit City site at Southpark Meadows. Much smaller than many of their older locations which seems to be the trend in retail in general and especially for Best Buy. I remember an article a year or two ago about the downsizing of Best Buy stores.

They opened up a new Best Buy here in Austin last week in the former Circuit City site at Southpark Meadows. Much smaller than many of their older locations which seems to be the trend in retail in general and especially for Best Buy. I remember an article a year or two ago about the downsizing of Best Buy stores.
Which probably helps explain why the new Best Buy in Stillwater isn't nearly as big as the ones in OKC, other than being in a much smaller market.

HAHA! I wouldn't dog on smaller Best Buy stores and them not having as much merch as the bigger stores.

I am a huge gamer, and I have been looking for a Wii game from SEGA, based on two of their old arcade games, called Gunblade NY and LA Machineguns Arcade Hits Pack.

Here is the funny part. NOT ONE SINGLE big Best Buy store got them in, but the Moore store did. You know... the smaller store.

I don't know if that's the case now, but when it first came out, it landed in the smaller stores first.

I hope BB takes over the old C.C. location, because then, it's only 1 mile away from my house.

As for Crossroads, I still believe in my dreams. I believe in astral projection, and I think that on three seperate occasions, I seen that mall in the future.

The first dream was from outside... Well wait a second. Let's make that at least 5 dreams. 2 Inside. 3 outside.

The first 3 I had were all on the outside, going in. I remember the outside looking very different, but familiar. I remember walking through the east side of the old Ward's parking lot. It looked so different, but felt familiar. I knew where I was. The parking lot was insanely full.

The second outside dream was me walking from the west side Penny's entrance (which I don't know what store was there), to the north side Penny's entrance. I was looking for something outside. The mall looked different, but yet again, familiar. It looked more modern.

The third dream was walking around the mall on the NE corner, around the Macy's building. It was more rounded. I remember looking inside, where I could see a section of the mall covered in black tarp, due to remodeling.

Then there are the two inside dreams.

First dream, was inside the north entrance of the mall, where Braums used to be. It was much brighter. The floors were white and black marble, with each divided by a triangular diamond that was green and white marble. Pillars between each store were Green and white marble, like the diamonds in between each set of 4 white marble tiles.

Second dream, was in the middle. I remember telling a friend who I told about my first dream, "see, told you my dream was right," when we went near a store, and looked at the pillars dividing each store. The middle of the mall felt more open, and stores weren't as deep as they are now, rather wide.

I just want southside to flourish as much as Moore, northside, quail and MWC.

I hope my dreams about the mall come true, and I hope it starts with Dillards coming back.

As for the surrounding areas outside of the mall. They need to demolish the plaza blocking the malls view on I-35. It's nothing but useless community colleges anyway. They should destroy and rebuild a smaller plaza, or build buildings that aren't all tied together.

The old tire centers across from Toys R Us and the dollar theatre, need to be demolished, repaved, and build new plazas there, or maybe a restaurant or two. The empty parking lots where the lots are empty and in bad shape, need to be redone and buildings built, to house new retail or restaurants to co-exist with the mall, should it be rennovated.

Who knows. Only time will tell. The area is so massive there, it is ripe for retail. I venture to guess, though, that anyone wanting it to turn into another community college, or government agencies, are wanting it to do so, so stores will move to their areas, and not southside, where we seriously need retail, in place of all the cell phone businesses, community colleges, and bingo halls.

megax11, I believe in dreams my self...Saw my 3 kids in dreams before they were born...Hope your right about CR's.

Odd thing about some smaller stores....for some reason when the Wal-Marts went SuperCenter sized, the selection decreased over what was available in the smaller stores. When asked was told repeatedly that the "extra" sf of the SuperCenter I "thought" I was seeing was being taken up by the Grocery. Didn't buy it, because if you have the grocery to your back, the distance to the back of the store exceeded the regular one and same going the width. Now maybe the aisles were wider or the shelves not as tall or a couple of other things, but it had absolutely nothing to do with the Grocery. I would even drive out of my way to shop at a regular Wal-mart, knowing that the SuperCenter might not have it.

Odd thing about some smaller stores....for some reason when the Wal-Marts went SuperCenter sized, the selection decreased over what was available in the smaller stores. When asked was told repeatedly that the "extra" sf of the SuperCenter I "thought" I was seeing was being taken up by the Grocery. Didn't buy it, because if you have the grocery to your back, the distance to the back of the store exceeded the regular one and same going the width. Now maybe the aisles were wider or the shelves not as tall or a couple of other things, but it had absolutely nothing to do with the Grocery. I would even drive out of my way to shop at a regular Wal-mart, knowing that the SuperCenter might not have it.

I will never forget the Walmart in MWC. Grew up going to that store. It just does not feel the same as going to the new one in DC.

Now now Thunder, as you say, "don't get off topic".

Well this is odd. Someone said in this thread, or another thread, that Best Buy was interested in the old Circuit City building. Well it seems to be that a Halloween store has occupied the building.

How can Best Buy move there, if it's occupied by a seasonal Halloween store? :(

I wish something permanent would move there, and it was called Best Buy.

Which CC building? As for Dillards I have a friend that works for them and he says if Dillards returns to Crossroads it will be a clearance center. It would be better than an empty building especially that size.

i still say turn one of the old department stores into a huge haunted house for the season.. i think it would be neat if they turned the old steve and barrys into a haunted house..

i still say turn one of the old department stores into a huge haunted house for the season.. i think it would be neat if they turned the old steve and barrys into a haunted house..

They could also do that to the JCPenney building. Can you imagine a 200,000 square foot haunted house?

Well this is odd. Someone said in this thread, or another thread, that Best Buy was interested in the old Circuit City building. Well it seems to be that a Halloween store has occupied the building.

How can Best Buy move there, if it's occupied by a seasonal Halloween store? :(

I wish something permanent would move there, and it was called Best Buy.

Umm.... LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The latest CC store in the shopping center a bit more west.... We all knew this.

Well this is odd. Someone said in this thread, or another thread, that Best Buy was interested in the old Circuit City building. Well it seems to be that a Halloween store has occupied the building.

How can Best Buy move there, if it's occupied by a seasonal Halloween store? :(

I wish something permanent would move there, and it was called Best Buy.

Those leases are temporary. For instance, BB recently opened a location in Stillwater in a vacant space that had been occupied by a seasonal halloween store last year. If a real estate company can lease a space out to a permanent tenant, they would almost certainly rather do that than have seasonal tenants for a couple of months each year.

HAHA! I wouldn't dog on smaller Best Buy stores and them not having as much merch as the bigger stores.

I am a huge gamer, and I have been looking for a Wii game from SEGA, based on two of their old arcade games, called Gunblade NY and LA Machineguns Arcade Hits Pack.

Here is the funny part. NOT ONE SINGLE big Best Buy store got them in, but the Moore store did. You know... the smaller store.

I don't know if that's the case now, but when it first came out, it landed in the smaller stores first.

I hope BB takes over the old C.C. location, because then, it's only 1 mile away from my house.

As for Crossroads, I still believe in my dreams. I believe in astral projection, and I think that on three seperate occasions, I seen that mall in the future.

The first dream was from outside... Well wait a second. Let's make that at least 5 dreams. 2 Inside. 3 outside.

The first 3 I had were all on the outside, going in. I remember the outside looking very different, but familiar. I remember walking through the east side of the old Ward's parking lot. It looked so different, but felt familiar. I knew where I was. The parking lot was insanely full.

The second outside dream was me walking from the west side Penny's entrance (which I don't know what store was there), to the north side Penny's entrance. I was looking for something outside. The mall looked different, but yet again, familiar. It looked more modern.

The third dream was walking around the mall on the NE corner, around the Macy's building. It was more rounded. I remember looking inside, where I could see a section of the mall covered in black tarp, due to remodeling.

Then there are the two inside dreams.

First dream, was inside the north entrance of the mall, where Braums used to be. It was much brighter. The floors were white and black marble, with each divided by a triangular diamond that was green and white marble. Pillars between each store were Green and white marble, like the diamonds in between each set of 4 white marble tiles.

Second dream, was in the middle. I remember telling a friend who I told about my first dream, "see, told you my dream was right," when we went near a store, and looked at the pillars dividing each store. The middle of the mall felt more open, and stores weren't as deep as they are now, rather wide.

I just want southside to flourish as much as Moore, northside, quail and MWC.

I hope my dreams about the mall come true, and I hope it starts with Dillards coming back.

As for the surrounding areas outside of the mall. They need to demolish the plaza blocking the malls view on I-35. It's nothing but useless community colleges anyway. They should destroy and rebuild a smaller plaza, or build buildings that aren't all tied together.

The old tire centers across from Toys R Us and the dollar theatre, need to be demolished, repaved, and build new plazas there, or maybe a restaurant or two. The empty parking lots where the lots are empty and in bad shape, need to be redone and buildings built, to house new retail or restaurants to co-exist with the mall, should it be rennovated.

Who knows. Only time will tell. The area is so massive there, it is ripe for retail. I venture to guess, though, that anyone wanting it to turn into another community college, or government agencies, are wanting it to do so, so stores will move to their areas, and not southside, where we seriously need retail, in place of all the cell phone businesses, community colleges, and bingo halls.

Please seek help now.

I heard a New Anthony's is moving into Crossroads Mall....lol

I heard a New Anthony's is moving into Crossroads Mall....lol

It's going to be right next to the New TG&Y.

I heard a New Anthony's is moving into Crossroads Mall....lol

This is true. KWTV broke the story earlier. Anthony's is moving into one of those anchor spaces. I think its the same company as the one in MWC. Dunno if they are expanding or relocating.


It's going to be right next to the New TG&Y.

Where did you hear that from?

Gonna be a true retro mall then huh?

Gonna be a true retro mall then huh?

Jettmiester, do you think I should answer Thunder or just let him wonder?

let him wonder....lol

To park and shop at the unNew Crossroads Retro Mall, your car cannot be newer than a 1973 model....wait its already like that now isn't it? lol

Where is the OTASCO store going? IT wouldn't be a retro-mall without OTASCO.

You guys could actually have something with the retro mall idea, if it was done right.

I wouldn't mind seeing an anchor store in CRM turned into a haunted house.

I remember when Frontier City had a mile long haunted house at the campground, which was ten times better than the haunted house they have now. It felt like you were getting more for your money.

A really long haunted house is what OKC needs. I hear the ones in Fort Worth, TX are lengthy.

Back to the original subject. When is this rumor supposed to take place?

How about putting a race course in the parking lot? Some nice elevation changes out there and Mount Trash won't mind the noise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zcv4T9Auy0U

This (http://www.deadmalls.com/malls/dixie_square_mall.html) is what the Blues Brothers mall looks like today.

This (http://www.deadmalls.com/malls/dixie_square_mall.html) is what the Blues Brothers mall looks like today.

I joked about this back on page 4. I was reading on the Dixie Square Mall wikipedia page about how JCPenny's reopened their store and had a sale called "Dixie's last gasp" which made me think of Dillards.

Kool video. LOL

PSYCHE! Crossroads mall isn't dead. This is the revival bump.

Two years ago, people thought the final nail was coming. Now Crossroads Mall can use the holy grail of video game quotes -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGu1R0-qjW8

First saying you hear.

Sorry, I had to do it. Crossroads deserves this.

Okay, the other one was terminated. Here is a new one to continue the discussion.

First question...

Does anyone know if the haunted house is back this year inside the mall?

I almost went out there today to pass the time, but went to other places instead. Last I checked, there was some new businesses going in. Was there any more the past few months? Did we lose any more tenants?

That mall has numerous of spaces available, so we may see some upsurge for temporary rentals for the holidays.

Dillard's back in yet?

Like Pete said...zero to discuss until there is real news that does not include eye doctors

Oh my goodness. What do you do when a threat gets locked (for good reason)? Oh I know, start another.

To be fair to Thunder, this new thread asks 2 legitimate questions and is (so far) free of the rampant rumors in the previous one:


Does anyone know if the haunted house is back this year inside the mall?

and


Dillard's back in yet?

On a related subject, someone had mentioned that this was going to be the final year for Bricktown Haunted Warehouse. I saw their ad in the Gazette, and it mentions it to be true (but makes it sound like it is going to just move to another location).

Up here at toys r us as I type this...

Manager friend told me the security officer for dhs which is the building next to tru, that crossroads was sold. I wonder how he found out?

Triple+ hearsay is always reliable.

You can take it to the bank.

Probably read bad reports posted here at OKC Talk!

Up here at toys r us as I type this...

Manager friend told me the security officer for dhs which is the building next to tru, that crossroads was sold. I wonder how he found out?

So, you work at Toy's R Us

I say we ban anyone who speaks of the "sale" until it is truly official.

Hey, since this was a thread that was killed, and has been brought back to life, isn't this now actually a Zombie thread?

Things that make you say "hmmm"

Probably read bad reports posted here at OKC Talk!

Yeah... Life revolves around OKCtalk let me tell ya.

For all we know the bible thumpers of this state probably think the internet is the devil. For the record I do believe in God, and that was just my opinion.

This site is so unprofessional, that it's borderline sickening. Trolls lash out calling names little school kids (I can see why some would though. The way they look in life would make me miserable), to a person who tried to post useful info, and the one posting info got his thread deleted, while other threads about utter BS still stand.

I can't see people taking this site seriously, as there is clear bias involved here. Bottom line, I can't see people taking this site seriously with the antics that go on here.

Case in point... Thunder asks a question, and I posted more talk from people who have heard, and the usuals are here calling people names and derailing the thread.

I can bet anyone here this thread will get closed, and the good people will get threatened, because there is some bias involved. Place your bets.

EDIT: Oh and by the way... I guess people here should say that Penn Square Mall is about to be on its deathbed, since shots were fired there... Afterall Crossroads failed due to gangs and the shooting, and all that bad nonsense. *sarcasm*

I suggest this thread and any others on Crossroads Mall be locked or deleted so long as these unofficial reports are streaming in from a certain poster on this forum.

This is getting beyond ridiculous, and I sense this thread is about to go south just like the other one did.

If it goes south, it's going south because others want it to go south. Humans don't have to act stupid if they don't want to. They just choose to.

Thunder didn't ask for anyone to come here with corn shoved up their ass... The dude asked a legitimate question, and people want to come in here, call names, and act the way they are.

That isn't Thunder's fault.

This is that bias I brought up. I fully expect this thread to be locked, despite the fact a useless one like the, "End of Crossroads Mall near" is still alive after 2 plus years of being on this un-professional and immature forum.

That has the most useless information, as well as just being filled with general nonsense and hate from various forum dwellers, yet it remains, while this one couldn't?

So on this forum, if people don't post what they believe should be posted, it gets locked? I dare for this thread to get locked.

I used to brag about this forum and tell people they should come here, however, after the mess that happened on my topic, and it's locking, if this one goes the way of the dodo, I'll just tell everyone who asks where to go for OKC discussion not to come to this whack-job forum, where people who provide some of those people with the news (employees here from NewsOK), have nothing better to do than to come here and act like a 2 year old to other forum posters.

Infact, I think I will back up this page to my HDD, as well as the last thread, just to show people how said and biased this site aparently is. I'll grab a picture on Google of Steve, and show these threads to people and say, "hey? This is what NewsOK journalists do in their spare time. Call people names and act unprofessional. To think you guys pay him, through paying the Oklahoman." Maybe they will get some sense slapped into them... Not like the paper doesn't already screw people over who try and cancel.

Pitiful... I dare this thread to get locked. I want to see the bias here.

Hey, since this was a thread that was killed, and has been brought back to life, isn't this now actually a Zombie thread?

Things that make you say "hmmm"


I laughed, heartily even. many thanks