You guys know what is going to go in there so stop acting like something else will.

A massive "state-of-the-art", world-class......





....call center!!!!:beaten_fi

That is mostly what OKC gets. Those and another national chain retailer.

The Lofts at Fecal Bluff

I spit out my Diet Coke... thanks.

I spit out my Diet Coke... thanks.

Eh, now that I think about it, it's probably not that accurate.

How about:

The Brownstones at Walmart Shopping Bag Point

Crossroads Casino!!

according to the store directory at shopcrossroadsmall.com there are now only 65 stores listed. BUT when you account for the fact that they include 9 listings of non-retail or out-of-mall business (fairfield inn, mall security, AMC theatres, HUGS project, Texas roadhouse, a second listing of one retail store) there are only 56 stores left. Some of those 56 are Kiosks. And only a handfull of those qualify as "traditional" or "national" mall stores - maybe about 17 by my count. Ouch.

according to the store directory at shopcrossroadsmall.com there are now only 65 stores listed. BUT when you account for the fact that they include 9 listings of non-retail or out-of-mall business (fairfield inn, mall security, AMC theatres, HUGS project, Texas roadhouse, a second listing of one retail store) there are only 56 stores left. Some of those 56 are Kiosks. And only a handfull of those qualify as "traditional" or "national" mall stores - maybe about 17 by my count. Ouch.

Thats sad. I think Hot Topic will be next to leave if they haven't already.

NOW we're talking much more realistically about Crossroads. Much better. As for 29th in MWC, demographics still aren't impressive until you get east of Douglass BUT I think the visibility and access is a lot better not to mention proximity to a rail line that is legitimately happening soon. I like the Douglass Station proposal of yours.

By the way PLANSIT, what software are you using to make these awesome pseudo-proposals? If I had a million dollars to invest, or if I was looking for a development partner I would probably give you a call for certain.

I think the biggest problem with Crossroads is access, even though it's bordered by two major interstates, it's not the easiest place to get to, especially if your traveling through and not familiar with the area.

I shopped at Crossroads for many years from the time it opened and never found access to be a problem. Getting in and out has never been as time consuming as Quail Springs and not many just happen to be driving by a mall and say "I think I'll stop and shop for a while. How do I get there?"

Yeah, access was never an issue. They're complaining that the mall can not be seen from the highway, which I believe is just crap talk. Look at Penn Square and Quail Spring, both of them is not being seen from the highway.

NOW we're talking much more realistically about Crossroads. Much better. As for 29th in MWC, demographics still aren't impressive until you get east of Douglass BUT I think the visibility and access is a lot better not to mention proximity to a rail line that is legitimately happening soon. I like the Douglass Station proposal of yours.

By the way PLANSIT, what software are you using to make these awesome pseudo-proposals? If I had a million dollars to invest, or if I was looking for a development partner I would probably give you a call for certain.

ArcMap

Okay, folks, from the leaves-you-scratching-your-head department rumor....

Friend of mine says that the folks at Sams Optical said Dillard's had made the decision to return to Crossroads, and that work on refurbishing the area they closed was underway. Story has it that Dillard's did not see an uptick in traffic in their northside locations following Crossroads' closure, and felt there was an opportunity to start over in that location. The same friend supposedly confirmed the rumor from someone else at the mall, under the "yeah, believe it or not, its true" category.

Now, beyond that little rumor, supposedly there are five new stores that are planning to go into Crossroads now that Dillard's is going back in as an anchor tenant.

I find the whole thing hard to believe, but hey, anything's possible. I count myself skeptical. Anyone heard anything about this?

Sounds to me like someone is trying to sell something. If you were a national department store and you were going to open a new store in OKC, where would you do it? Crossroads would be so far down on that list it isn't even funny. I would take a chance on a downtown loaction long before I would take a chance on Crossroads.

It is true and it surprised me. Mom was told by the Dillards in PSM that one is returning to Crossroads. I couldn't believe mom and said she must have misunderstood. Now it has been confirmed by SoonerDave and this is really exciting! Do you know the time frame Dillards will return? Is any of the 5 new stores at least one major retailer to take up the remaining 3 spaces?

It is true and it surprised me. Mom was told by the Dillards in PSM that one is returning to Crossroads. I couldn't believe mom and said she must have misunderstood. Now it has been confirmed by SoonerDave and this is really exciting! Do you know the time frame Dillards will return? Is any of the 5 new stores at least one major retailer to take up the remaining 3 spaces?

Sorry, Thunder, I posted about as much as I know about it. I think the other stores were smaller tenants, not other anchors.

About the only thing I could guess is that Dillards got a sweetheart deal on a lease since the broader mall is more or less a distressed property these days. That said, an inflow of new $$ could turn its fortunes around. Wouldn't that be the irony of ironies?

I want to say the schedule was to open this fall, maybe even in time for Christmas, but I won't swear to that.

I'll ask them what more they know and post what I find out.

That will be so awesome to open just in time before Christmas! I hope the mall is starting to somehow make it known everywhere that Dillards is coming back and hopefully attract more retailers to come back in time for the holidays.

Is a bank the owner of the mall now? I wonder if they will start the renovating all around inside and out rather than wait for the cash flow.

So there we have it. A rumor from the Dillards at PSM confirming a rumor from Sam's Optical. Not saying it isn't true but I will hold my belief. The mall doesn't even have an owner. If anything, I bet it is a Dillards Outlet Store.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/09/ap/business/main6757965.shtml


.(AP) OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) - A company that lost an Oklahoma City mall to the federal government in foreclosure said Monday it has hired a management firm to try and prevent the same fate for two other malls.

Midwest Mall Properties LLC of Little Rock, Ark., said Chicago-based Urban Retail Properties LLC would provide management and leasing services for the Northwest Arkansas Mall in Fayetteville, Ark., and The Citadel Mall in Colorado Springs, Colo.

Midwest Mall Properties bought the two malls, along with Crossroads Mall in Oklahoma City, in December 2006 for about $400 million. By April 2009, the company had lost the Oklahoma mall to foreclosure. Maiden Lane LLC, an entity of the Federal Reserve Bank in New York, ended up with Crossroads Mall after the failure of Bear Stearns Cos., which held the mortgage on the mall.

...

David Bohanon, the managing broker in the Oklahoma City office of Marcus and Millichap Real Estate Investment Services, said while enclosed malls "will never be obsolete in an area like Oklahoma City that has extreme weather conditions," that it might be time "to find a new use" for Crossroads Mall, although he doesn't know what that might be.

"From my observation, it will have a tough time ever getting back big national retail tenants," Bohanon said. "I don't know if they can make it catering to small local retailers."

Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it. The Feds own it and correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Dillards sell their space? I think the anchors independently owned their anchor spaces.

Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it. The Feds own it and correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Dillards sell their space? I think the anchors independently owned their anchor spaces.

Wards originally owned their space, but I think that arrangement was unique among the anchors. As I recall, that ownership issue was why Sears didn't move its 44th street (Sequoyah/Reding) store into Crossroads years ago when Wards failed....

According to the county assessor, Dillard's still owns their building and land at Crossroads.

According to the county assessor, Dillard's still owns their building and land at Crossroads.

This is fantastic news!!!! There was someone on here sharing his vision for Crossroads that he had in his dreams about the future. It is slowly coming true!

Guess they couldn't sell it.

I don't understand why Thunder is getting over excited by a rumor. Like Metro, I'll believe it when I see it too!

Someone mentioned in another discussion there may be some connection to the recent owners and Dillards. If you notice the LLC that just unloaded management of the mall and their other properties is located in Little Rock where Dillards is headquartered.

Bigray in Ok

Why does anything with crossroads mall get so many people excited around here? I must be missing something.

Why does anything with crossroads mall get so many people excited around here? I must be missing something.

It is an iconic and historical mall. There is lots of love for Crossroads. In a few years, it will compete PSM.

Uhm....I doubt that....each year it gets worse. Even if this does come to fruition, this is merely one small pulse....not enough to consider it alive again.

It is an iconic and historical mall. There is lots of love for Crossroads. In a few years, it will compete PSM.

Nostalgia for Crossroads, sure. Love, maybe. But it just doesn't make up for a bad location. The idea that it will ever compete on equal ground with PSM again, just looks impossible to me. Crossroads is surrounded on most sides, not all, by industrial filth, a sex district, and very impoverished and/or run down residential. HUGE difference from a mall with comparable highway access, surrounded by affluent, middle class or above neighborhoods, with complimentary shopping, restaurants, etc. Especially with all of the increased competition from Moore, Midwest City, and Norman, that have all stepped up to try and fill the void crossroads left in it's years of catastrophic failure. It could, probably will, live again, don't get me wrong. But I just dont think it will ever be up to the level of PSM. It's Oklahoma's North Park Center, just think how many people have tried to compete with North Park over the years. They've just been too good, too long, and crossroads has been all but standing still in the race for the last several years. If anything, I could see it being, the "working man's alternative" to PSM.

Nostalgia for Crossroads, sure. Love, maybe. But it just doesn't make up for a bad location.

If this Dillards notion proves true, someone must think the location is salvageable.


The idea that it will ever compete on equal ground with PSM again, just looks impossible to me. Crossroads is surrounded on most sides, not all, by industrial filth, a sex district, and very impoverished and/or run down residential. HUGE difference from a mall with comparable highway access, surrounded by affluent, middle class or above neighborhoods, with complimentary shopping, restaurants, etc.

I know this goes against the grain of the conventional wisdom about a) all things south OKC, and b) all things Crossroads, but it might surprise you to know that Crossroads is but four miles away from one of if not the highest-income-density zip code in OKC (73170). As for highway access, it happens to sit on the wrong side of one of the busiest interstate interchanges in Oklahoma City. Yeah, I agree, the immediate Crossroads area is a decided longshot for revival, but creating this notion that there are practically hookers operating out of the center court is silly.


....... If anything, I could see it being, the "working man's alternative" to PSM.

Sounds so simultaneously encouraging yet snobbish and condescending, I'm not quite sure how to respond. Someone on the business side of the house somewhere must think there's something to be leveraged at Crossroads if the rumors in this thread pan out. I'm not deluded into thinking glory days are returning to Crossroads, but I'm foolish enough to be optimistic about a rumor that seems to be gaining some traction that makes Crossroads' near-term future at least fractionally less bleak.

I say all this as a nearly lifetime resident of SW OKC, and remembering how I went to Crossroads as a kid of about 10 the day it opened, and how in the OKC area it was truly larger than life. Contrasting what it was like in its glory days against what it has become, and the obstacles it has to overcome to be viable again, gives me a bit of permission to be perhaps a bit too excited about the notion of it regaining a significant anchor tenant that may add to the city's sales tax rolls and employment. That's better than an empty, decaying corpse.

It's Oklahoma's North Park Center, just think how many people have tried to compete with North Park over the years.

At least you could feel somewhat safe at Northpark Mall.

As you could most of the time over the history of Crossroads, including recent times. PSM on the other hand ... well, run your crime reports over the last decade plus and decide for yourself. CR has its issues, no denying, but safety ain't it, of course, that could be largely because crooks go where the wallets go, and more wallets go to PSM these days.

Crossroads is surrounded on most sides, not all, by industrial filth, a sex district, and very impoverished and/or run down residential.

I have shopped at Crossroads since it opened and never felt that any of these things had any bearing at all on whether I liked to shop there. They were never noticeable or even on the radar screen. Penn Square is very close to one of the largest adult entertainment districts in OKC near 39th and Penn. Does that have any effect on them?

It doesn't really matter what Crossroads Mall is close to. Landfill. Sex club. It just simply does not matter. The mall went on for years despite those surrounding neighbors. The cause of the demise was the failure to maintain/update/upgrade everything on the inside and outside and failure to listen to the tenants. Secondary factor was the people failing to shop there regularly to ride out the hard times. Now we see that Dillards is coming back, along with 5 new stores, they all will have to work extra hard to get these customers to start coming back. The mall is NOT dead! We are given the 2nd chance, so I suggest you all get off your butts and start shopping!

b) all things Crossroads, but it might surprise you to know that Crossroads is but four miles away from one of if not the highest-income-density zip code in OKC (73170).

Does it really matter? That's like saying if Nichols Hills had it's own zip code then PSM would be within a mile of the highest-income-density zip code in the city, let alone, the whole county! Unfortunately that zip code on the south side covers a newer residential area that's probably been built up in just the last decade where as the zip code that Nichols Hills is a part of is also cheaper and/or low income housing projects combined.

I laugh at the notion that Crossroads will be on the same competitive level as PSM. It might of been at one time, but it WILL NEVER BE AGAIN. Sorry Thunder, ain't (I don't say this word very often unless I mean it) happening. Again, look at the surrounding area. I'm not talking about landfills or sex districts. Crossroads is developed on one side (that side fronting I-35). Yes, there is way more traffic than what probably goes by PSM on I-44, but there is more density around PSM. Only one side of it has nothing and that is because a neighborhood backs up to it.

I still think the site would be great for a sporting venue or a theme park. That mall has some cool architecture and it looks cool, but the empty lots make it a sore eye.

It is an iconic and historical mall. There is lots of love for Crossroads. In a few years, it will compete PSM.

Are you delusional or something? Crossroads was the biggest mistake ever made in OKC. And it delivered the death knell for Capitol Hill, which was once the retail backbone of South OKC. I'd take a shot at revitalizing Capitol Hill before bringing back Crossroads any day. I say let Crossroads die, then erect a gigantic border fence around it and officially deannex it from the United States. Include Valley Brook in that, too.

This is the thing to knock into some of these pro-Crossroads people's little brains: Penn Square doesn't need a "working man's alternative" because if you put Penn Square in most other cities, it wouldn't be close to being the nicest retail center. Penn Square is really not that amazing, believe it or not. And on any week night you'll see the exact some mall rat filth lingering around Penn Square that you would at any other mall.

If there is an Arkansas mall management company involved, they may have a close relationship with Dillards who is also out of Arkansas. It would be surprising but who knows?

Are you delusional or something? Crossroads was the biggest mistake ever made in OKC. And it delivered the death knell for Capitol Hill, which was once the retail backbone of South OKC. I'd take a shot at revitalizing Capitol Hill before bringing back Crossroads any day.

Spartan, of course Crossroads had a devastating effect on shopping in Capitol Hill. Surely you're not suggesting though that Capitol Hill would still be a major OKC shopping hub if crossroads hadn't been built. It would have gone downhill but maybe not as quickly. It can still be a nice local shopping area with speciality types of businesses but will never be what it was when I used to shop at Brown's or Penneys there when I was younger. And I dare say that Crossroads wasn't the biggest mistake ever made in OKC. Remember Urban Renewal?

This is horrible news! I had big hopes that Crossroads would empty out and would turn into the world's largest hide-and-go-seek building.

Spartan, of course Crossroads had a devastating effect on shopping in Capitol Hill. Surely you're not suggesting though that Capitol Hill would still be a major OKC shopping hub if crossroads hadn't been built. It would have gone downhill but maybe not as quickly. It can still be a nice local shopping area with speciality types of businesses but will never be what it was when I used to shop at Brown's or Penneys there when I was younger. And I dare say that Crossroads wasn't the biggest mistake ever made in OKC. Remember Urban Renewal?

There is a laundry list of things competing for title of worst mistake in OKC history. Crossroads is up there, way above the level of damage of any SandRidge proposal. And you're right, if it weren't for Crossroads, it would have been an empty mall to kill of Capitol Hill--and I'd be hating on that fictional mall as well.

I don't see any reason why Capitol Hill can't become a major retail hub again because of the sheer residential density and quickly growing populations that surround it. It won't be home to a Whole Foods or a Nordstrom anytime soon, but if the city wanted to, they could really turn it into a competitive retail destination that would compete with Moore for southside sales tax dollars. All it would take to get the ball rolling is a well-planned movie theater similar to the Promenade on 4th Street in Sioux City, IA or the Warren Theatre in Wichita's Old Town. You could just take everything that's still at Crossroads and completely move it up to Capitol Hill--no reason why that couldn't happen.

Global warming is another reason to revive Crossroads Mall. Who would want to suffer in the extreme heat? It's better to have long walks inside where there is cool AC units making us super comfortable. And the Winter season, especially Christmas? Save on gas = more presents to give! Many reasons to revive the mall and its about time.

If I'm close to either place, Capitol Hill or Crossroads/Valley Brook at or near sunset, I get the same feeling one must get upon finding that they've inadvertently driven into the fictitious town of Salem's Lot way after dark.

Windows up, doors locked, eyes front, drive fast.

If I'm close to either place, Capitol Hill or Crossroads/Valley Brook at or near sunset, I get the same feeling one must get upon finding that they've inadvertently driven into the fictitious town of Salem's Lot way after dark.

Windows up, doors locked, eyes front, drive fast.

There's probably a medication that could assist in quelling your anxiety.

Turn Crossroads into a huge film studio. If Dillards is there, they can provide wardrobes.

There's probably a medication that could assist in quelling your anxiety.

I-240. Take as needed.

I-240. Take as needed.

Have to chuckle. 240, even in the daytime, generates waay more anxiety for me. Far too many distracted drivers for my tastes.

Does everybody think that Crossroads got into this situation by accident?

CR has not stayed competitive and owners couldn't justify investments even when the economy was rip-roaring. There is nothing in its recent history to suggest the public will support it to the extent needed. Indoor malls are very expensive to maintain and operate and rental rates have to reflect it. When the large shopping areas of Moore and Norman can offer cheaper rent and pass it on with cheaper products due to the lower overhead, then CR has no chance. People don't want to walk from dimly lit parking areas with little or no security to a dingy environment and then spend more money than they would if they drove down the road just a bit farther. Face it, CR is a dinosaur and certainly needs to look at other uses.

I am sure that Dillards might be able to look at re-opening if they don't have to pay for common area and since people can park right outside the store and walk directly in. Otherwise, I doubt they could justify anything there. Face it, CR has been uncompetitive and been in a death spiral for quite awhile.

Have to chuckle. 240, even in the daytime, generates waay more anxiety for me. Far too many distracted drivers for my tastes.

Actually, it does for me as well. I never use it, but my daughters take it when they go home from visiting me in Norman. They just got their licenses, so I require a phone call from the non-driving sibling at each exit. The dad on the Subaru commercial is a slacker compared to the drills I put my kids through before they drive somewhere.

It should probably be noted if someone has not already done so that Dillards does run a handful of clearance centers. They could be looking at opening a clearance center since the economy is going to force them to either keep the building or give it away for a bargain basement price.

Penn Square is very close to one of the largest adult entertainment districts in OKC near 39th and Penn. Does that have any effect on them?

umm we're talking about a little bit of a different situation. One, while there may be a strip of clubs/bars, it's not strip clubs. Adult entertainment, sure but it's not on the same level as Valley Brook. Two, there is the lack of crime and violence that Valley Brook has. Of course there are the occasional crimes in the Penn Square area but nowhere near that of Valley Brook area so I feel like that was an unfair comparison.

Are you delusional or something? Crossroads was the biggest mistake ever made in OKC. And it delivered the death knell for Capitol Hill, which was once the retail backbone of South OKC. I'd take a shot at revitalizing Capitol Hill before bringing back Crossroads any day. I say let Crossroads die, then erect a gigantic border fence around it and officially deannex it from the United States. Include Valley Brook in that, too.

This is the thing to knock into some of these pro-Crossroads people's little brains: Penn Square doesn't need a "working man's alternative" because if you put Penn Square in most other cities, it wouldn't be close to being the nicest retail center. Penn Square is really not that amazing, believe it or not. And on any week night you'll see the exact some mall rat filth lingering around Penn Square that you would at any other mall. Probably because "some of" the low lifes from "South of the River" go to PSM to scope it out and try to rob the wealthy NH folks. Believe me, when I lived in OKC and went to Crossroads Mall, I saw so many skanky, greasy, toothless folks. Yes, PSM has a few skanks but I would guess they come from the other side of the city. (LOL).

I kinda like the hide and seek idea

of course there are the occasional crimes in the penn square area but nowhere near that of valley brook area so i feel like that was an unfair comparison.

if you were to actually look at the crime statistics for these two areas, i think you'd be surprised... -M

All of these crime statistics and class issues, have little to do with it. It is true, there is crime in the Penn Square neighborhood, a shockingly high amount. It is also true there is plenty of shoppers on the south side of town. But what makes Penn a lock for king of OKC shopping malls is about what the neighborhood has to offer shoppers. The neighborhood is packed with stores that compliment, and supplement the offerings of the mall itself. The thing that makes the mall so successful is that it serves as a hub in an area of town that has had a steady stream of retail investment. It is the mall that a family from the suburbs, or even far flung Oklahoma towns come to to shop at the mall, then they travel in a small area of town surrounding it to go to very upscale shops, great bargain shopping, great restaurants etc. The only point I was trying to make about crossroads is that wether deserved or not, it has not had ANY real investment in it's neighboring area in many years. As a result it just isn't the epicenter for OKC shopping that it had a chance to be so may years back. So, this means while it can be turned around from it's current zombie status, it has decades of catching up to do to change its image as an actual shopping destination. This status will also make the rebuilding slow because it will seriously limit it's ability to attract major tenants.

All of these crime statistics and class issues, have little to do with it. It is true, there is crime in the Penn Square neighborhood, a shockingly high amount. It is also true there is plenty of shoppers on the south side of town. But what makes Penn a lock for king of OKC shopping malls is about what the neighborhood has to offer shoppers. The neighborhood is packed with stores that compliment, and supplement the offerings of the mall itself. The thing that makes the mall so successful is that it serves as a hub in an area of town that has had a steady stream of retail investment. It is the mall that a family from the suburbs, or even far flung Oklahoma towns come to to shop at the mall, then they travel in a small area of town surrounding it to go to very upscale shops, great bargain shopping, great restaurants etc. The only point I was trying to make about crossroads is that wether deserved or not, it has not had ANY real investment in it's neighboring area in many years. As a result it just isn't the epicenter for OKC shopping that it had a chance to be so may years back. So, this means while it can be turned around from it's current zombie status, it has decades of catching up to do to change its image as an actual shopping destination. This status will also make the rebuilding slow because it will seriously limit it's ability to attract major tenants.

That can all change. For an example, look at the history of Penn Square Mall itself. It was pretty unhealthy, close to zombie status, prior to its renovation in 1989, and at that time was NOT surrounded by all the retail that is there now (except for the always-struggling 50 Penn Place).

if crime and being poor in that area was the case, im suprised certain malls in the l.a metro make a go of it, and the downtown san diego mall is popular but it has homeless people hanging out all outside of it..I would go to crossroads over penn sq if crossroads had a 90% or more occupancy. Yes the mall needs a huge facelift inside and out, but the location compared to other large malls in other cities isnt that bad, look at crime stats in other cities around malls that are thriving

Probably because "some of" the low lifes from "South of the River" go to PSM to scope it out and try to rob the wealthy NH folks. Believe me, when I lived in OKC and went to Crossroads Mall, I saw so many skanky, greasy, toothless folks. Yes, PSM has a few skanks but I would guess they come from the other side of the city. (LOL).

I live "South of the River". Am I some mutated freak or something? ;P

if crime and being poor in that area was the case, im suprised certain malls in the l.a metro make a go of it, and the downtown san diego mall is popular but it has homeless people hanging out all outside of it..I would go to crossroads over penn sq if crossroads had a 90% or more occupancy. Yes the mall needs a huge facelift inside and out, but the location compared to other large malls in other cities isnt that bad, look at crime stats in other cities around malls that are thriving

I used to live in an area that was sort of equidistant from both malls. I never once thought about crime statistics or what was happening in the surrounding areas when deciding which one to go to. I did often consider traffic congestion and ease of access though. And Crossroads was always ahead in that area.

I don't see any reason why Capitol Hill can't become a major retail hub again because of the sheer residential density and quickly growing populations that surround it. It won't be home to a Whole Foods or a Nordstrom anytime soon, but if the city wanted to, they could really turn it into a competitive retail destination that would compete with Moore for southside sales tax dollars. All it would take to get the ball rolling is a well-planned movie theater similar to the Promenade on 4th Street in Sioux City, IA or the Warren Theatre in Wichita's Old Town. You could just take everything that's still at Crossroads and completely move it up to Capitol Hill--no reason why that couldn't happen.

Spartan, that depends on what your definition of a "major retail hub" is. When I was young and lived in Norman, my family went there to go shopping in addition to occasional trips downtown. Will that ever happen again? Unlikely. Can it become a nice southside shopping magnet? Of course it can, with the right kind of development and incentives. What are you suggesting that the city could do to further that?

umm we're talking about a little bit of a different situation. One, while there may be a strip of clubs/bars, it's not strip clubs. Adult entertainment, sure but it's not on the same level as Valley Brook. Two, there is the lack of crime and violence that Valley Brook has. Of course there are the occasional crimes in the Penn Square area but nowhere near that of Valley Brook area so I feel like that was an unfair comparison.

So you're saying that if two different areas have a concentration of bars with people imbibing all night that the fact that one area has females exposing their breasts makes that area more unsafe?

Spartan, that depends on what your definition of a "major retail hub" is. When I was young and lived in Norman, my family went there to go shopping in addition to occasional trips downtown. Will that ever happen again? Unlikely. Can it become a nice southside shopping magnet? Of course it can, with the right kind of development and incentives. What are you suggesting that the city could do to further that?

We need the city to crack down on code violations on Commerce Street, trust me they exist. We need the city to provide some incentives to get a nice first-run movie theater built on Capitol Hill as well. That will be the draw--other development will follow it naturally. I am all about the government being as minimally involved as possible, just making sure that we can realize the full market potential. I think that with C2S redevelopment taking root here in a few years, The Waterfront (Humphreys project), and if we can get something going on Capitol Hill--we could be seeing a southside resurgence. We also need to see through with the planning schemes of 44th Street, and we need new building codes as far south as 59th that are urban. Ban setbacks, require parking in the back, require drive-thru lanes in the back, and so on. Require real masonry on buildings that aren't in the industrial area (east of Shields Blvd). We also need sidewalks on at least every street with a traffic light.

That really isn't that much city action. There's hardly anything that's not typical in suggesting that a major U.S. city do what it can to foster and promote positive inner city environments. Too many people are getting hit on our roads. Too many elderly think the right lane is a good place for one of those hover-round things, too many kids think the right lane is a good place for bicycling, and too many grown adults think it's a good place to peddle some little food truck thing that I see a lot of around the southside. The reality is that there is NO proper place provided for these human-scale transportation modes, and any inner city that doesn't allow for life to occur at the human scale is destined to become a cesspool hardly worth caring about. A massive Del City is where we're headed if we don't shape up the southside while we still can.

We also need people to SUPPORT great businesses down there like the Grill on the Hill. Admittedly, not all of the businesses down there are "white people-friendly" to put it blatantly, but some of them really are and they're also great places.

I know penn sq mall has been on the news several times for some kind of rape, theft, etc in the parking lot.. One of the problems with crossroads was lack of security or should i say bad security, I worked at the mall 10 years ago, and when security is called they take thier sweet time. vSo being back to the subject, I am glad the mall is going to get some tenants, hopefully the mall can find a buyer soon and bring it back to it heyday, its going to take a lot but it can be done