"Over $100k" is not that much money these days, sorry to say.

It's still a substantial salary in Oklahoma if we are talking for one person. Now I think there is definitely an argument that it's not much if that's a family of 3 or 4.

Agreed with the above. It is a good income. My point was that making $100k now isn't the same as it was ten years ago, which I'm sure you agree with.

Everybody has different priorities and expectations for their life. It's very hard to say either $100,000 is a "substantial" income or that it's "not much money."

Suburban St. Louis is not that much more expensive than suburban OKC but I can tell you that in my experience, $100,000 isn't getting you very far if you are a family of three and you are:
-paying for day care for a toddler
-have a slightly better than average house with a mortgage
-want to take a nice vacation every year or two
-want to save for college so you/your kid won't have to take loans

I mean, I don't want to "show my privilege" and of course people do it all the time, but my opinion is $100,000/year is fine if you can truly get there in a few years and use that as a stepping stone to the next thing but as a final goal in life, no thanks.

I feel like the grind 60 hours a week is going to be tougher to do as fresh college grads and young people have the option of remote employment in other places. Jobs my company would have no issue hiring for 5 years ago are now getting basically no qualified applicants even after moving the salary up a few times. Once hybrid work/remote was added the list of applicants shot up to much better levels.

Remote work has really given a lot of people employment freedom for once. Happy to see it.

Everybody has different priorities and expectations for their life. It's very hard to say either $100,000 is a "substantial" income or that it's "not much money."

Suburban St. Louis is not that much more expensive than suburban OKC but I can tell you that in my experience, $100,000 isn't getting you very far if you are a family of three and you are:
-paying for day care for a toddler
-have a slightly better than average house with a mortgage
-want to take a nice vacation every year or two
-want to save for college so you/your kid won't have to take loans

I mean, I don't want to "show my privilege" and of course people do it all the time, but my opinion is $100,000/year is fine if you can truly get there in a few years and use that as a stepping stone to the next thing but as a final goal in life, no thanks.

Well it's a good income if you are a single income person with no children. Of course if you are sole providing for 3 people then good luck.

Fightthegoodfight,
Yes, you're right. Exactly my point. It would seem, then, that jobs at Paycom are good for people in a certain period of life, but not for many people long-term. And that's fine but if PayCom is being touted as one of the premiere companies in OKC in which to work, then OKC has some work to do. But I think we all know that.

Everybody has different priorities and expectations for their life. It's very hard to say either $100,000 is a "substantial" income or that it's "not much money."

Suburban St. Louis is not that much more expensive than suburban OKC but I can tell you that in my experience, $100,000 isn't getting you very far if you are a family of three and you are:
-paying for day care for a toddler
-have a slightly better than average house with a mortgage
-want to take a nice vacation every year or two
-want to save for college so you/your kid won't have to take loans

I mean, I don't want to "show my privilege" and of course people do it all the time, but my opinion is $100,000/year is fine if you can truly get there in a few years and use that as a stepping stone to the next thing but as a final goal in life, no thanks.

if you make a solo 100k income and are married you either don't need day care for the toddler ... or you wife works and you have an additional income and make well over 100k

At least in Oklahoma $100k is sufficient for a family of 3... you're not going to be saving $3k/month and taking vacations 4x/year but you're not typically struggling to make ends meet either.

Anyway, just so it's clear, $100k isn't just high-level-management income at Paycom. The point is you can be in some entry level positions and or entry level management within 3-5 years and start clearing $100k in that time and then continue to build from there. Not everyone cares enough about money and financial growth opportunity to spend 60 hour weeks to get to that level, but almost everything that pays $100k+ requires you to pay your dues along the way. The cool thing about Paycom: you can get there without a college degree or any specialized training from outside the organization.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/paycom061922a.jpg

To think this could have been a very nice tower.

To think this could have been a very nice tower.
“Don’t be negative” but yeah…

To think this could have been a very nice tower.

Not just that. But consider the visual differences between the Chesapeake Campus, and this one. Understandably CE is much larger and had more money at the time, but maaaaaan this campus is incredibly dull looking.

I mean...from a cost perspective, it makes no sense to build up out in far NW OKC where you essentially have unlimited amounts of land.

I mean...from a cost perspective, it makes no sense to build up out in far NW OKC where you essentially have unlimited amounts of land.

Oh I meant that they could have had a nice tower in the CBD.

Oh I meant that they could have had a nice tower in the CBD.

I'm not sure that Mr. Richison is an urbanist. I recall he grew up in the Blanchard region and went to UCO. This campus is good for Deer Creek Schools, Edmond and executive living in Gaillardia.

I'm not sure that Mr. Richison is an urbanist. I recall he grew up in the Blanchard region and went to UCO. This campus is good for Deer Creek Schools, Edmond and executive living in Gaillardia.

Oh no doubt, and the land is much cheaper to build on. I was mainly speaking to a local HQ that could have a nice tall tower in our CBD, especially now that they have their name on the arena.

Paycom got a lot of nice exposure this weekend thanks to Viktor Hovland at the Open Championship. They signed him as a brand ambassador back in April and their logo was nicely displayed on his shirt to millions all over the world this weekend. He made the final group on Sunday (eventually finishing T4).

17584
Building E is starting to make some decent progress

17584
Building E is starting to make some decent progress

To give everyone an idea the size of the building, the steel columns outline around 1/4 section of the building. Half the building is 6 stories (inclusive of basement) and the other half is 5 stories.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/paycom110522a.jpg

Wondering if they are going to move people from the offices they put together around town, over to here after its done. They've taken quite a large amount of the 7725 Connect (formerly OKCWorks) building as other tenants moved out after COVID (including my company....and took over most of our space).

I feel for the landlords there. Paycom was already PaynInTheirAss before we had even left our own space.

Paycom planning to build another, much larger parking garage:


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/paycom031722a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/paycom031722b.jpg

I think work might be starting in this garage. There is now a second crane on the campus and one in the area where this garage will be going

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/paycom110522a.jpg

I always wish Chad Richison has the aesthetic sense as much as Aubrey McClendon did.

I always wish Chad Richison has the aesthetic sense as much as Aubrey McClendon did.

Totally agree, but I’d also have settled for all these workers to have been nearer to American Fidelity/downtown just for the concentration.

Trust me, I would love for headquarters to be downtown, but I will say that having a major high quality employer anchor this side of town is really good for the longevity of the broader PC North area as well as Deer Creek and East Piedmont. The PC North area specifically had been on the downturn of the suburban lifecycle for awhile. I'm sure many homes will get revitalized with help from Paycom and a few other employers in the area and, of course, many who are not long term employees for companies in the area will create roots to positively impact.for another generation or 2.

I keep hoping their growth will spur mixed-use developments along the Kilpatrick Turnpike, but it isn't. I think Paycom is 10 years from being a Fortune 500 company, and that should lead to growth around its HQ.

I love what Paycom has done for OKC, just hope the areas around it begin to thrive, as well.

I'm curious from someone inside, but for them to grow the way they still are, i'm thinking they must have started treating people better than they were. I wouldn't think that employees would put up with the junk they used to, at this volume of an employee base. Or, are they just cycling them out the rotating door fast enough that it doesn't matter to them? They used to work their folks to death. They paid them well for it (or so I'm told) but 60 hour weeks are not my cup of tea. Work life balance with my kids and family is far more important. So i'm just curious what the inside view is now from a non-manager.

I'm curious from someone inside, but for them to grow the way they still are, i'm thinking they must have started treating people better than they were. I wouldn't think that employees would put up with the junk they used to, at this volume of an employee base. Or, are they just cycling them out the rotating door fast enough that it doesn't matter to them? They used to work their folks to death. They paid them well for it (or so I'm told) but 60 hour weeks are not my cup of tea. Work life balance with my kids and family is far more important. So i'm just curious what the inside view is now from a non-manager.

they still pay a lot and expect a lot from their employees ..

lots make the choice to grind for 10 years and set them selves up to have a very very easy life afterwards ...

they still pay a lot and expect a lot from their employees ..

lots make the choice to grind for 10 years and set them selves up to have a very very easy life afterwards ...

Define "pay a lot" and "very very easy life", lol!

They offer only 6 paid holidays per year, way below market, and don't even offer the Friday after Thanksgiving or Christmas. 1980's management style.

Define "pay a lot" and "very very easy life", lol!

They offer only 6 paid holidays per year, way below market, and don't even offer the Friday after Thanksgiving or Christmas. 1980's management style.

I agree with this, as someone whose significant other works at Paycom, I can attest to this. They are in no way paying well, I guess if you move up into higher leadership they do, but starting out is not great. The entry level is where they see the most turnover, long hours, hard work and low pay is tough. They also have decided that working from home is a no go, even if you're sick and would like to work from home, they are making you take PTO. If you can make it through the first 3-5 years, it starts to settle a bit, but those first few years are very very difficult.

They have changed up the style of management a bit, but the work load is still very high and they are expected to be doormats for the clients, they take a beating.

Define "pay a lot" and "very very easy life", lol!

They offer only 6 paid holidays per year, way below market, and don't even offer the Friday after Thanksgiving or Christmas. 1980's management style.

New Hires start out accruing at a rate of 28 days of paid sick&PTO per year and max out at 38 days after 4 years. Paid Parental leave up to 6 weeks for fathers and 12 weeks for mothers.

Is that 1980s style and way below market?

I'd be interested to know what qualifies for "paying a lot". It's a 6,000+ Employee organization so you're going to have a wide range of pay for different positions.

Paycom is also a company you grind out a few years to move up in pay, but that opportunity is generally readily available depending on how much you want to put in to that advancement. I'm not going to tell you that most are making six figures or have that ability, but the positions that are most grueling at Paycom absolutely create opportunities to go from 40th percentile individual income to 66th+ within 2-3 years. These are positions that don't require college degrees, so it's definitely geared toward people looking for upward mobility.

It's not the kind of organization you get a balling degree and come into the firm to start out at six figures (though some of those positions do exist less frequently).

It's also a young organization and in the transition from being a rapid growing startup to being a mature, major market player. To answer bombermwc's original question, yes, it is definitely better work/life balance today than it was 4-8 years ago.

Define "pay a lot" and "very very easy life", lol!

They offer only 6 paid holidays per year, way below market, and don't even offer the Friday after Thanksgiving or Christmas. 1980's management style.

i have more then 1 friend that retired before 40 ..

i have more then 1 friend that retired before 40 ..

So yeah, that was also kind of a once in a lifetime type of situation where people who were with the organization when it went public got a lot of stock that ballooned by 20x within 6 years (and as much as 36x).

Nobody getting stock today should expect their stock to go from $300 to $6,000 before the decade is out.

New Hires start out accruing at a rate of 28 days of paid sick&PTO per year and max out at 38 days after 4 years. Paid Parental leave up to 6 weeks for fathers and 12 weeks for mothers.

Is that 1980s style and way below market?

Is sick and vacation/PTO the same bank?

Is sick and vacation/PTO the same bank?

In hours: 80 Sick and 144 PTO. 224 PTO once you hit 4 years.

Can rollover up to 120 hours sick and 200 hours PTO.

I've seen a lot of time off policies for varying sized organizations. Though Paycom's time-off offerings have room for improvement, they are definitely above average.

In hours: 80 Sick and 144 PTO.
Can rollover up to 80 hours sick and 200 hours PTO.

I've seen a lot of time off policies for varying sized organizations. Though Paycom's time-off offerings have room for improvement, they are definitely above average.

So they are separate, that is good. I can’t stand the recent trend of combining them. My sick time shouldn’t be vacation time.

So they are separate, that is good. I can’t stand the recent trend of combining them. My sick time shouldn’t be vacation time.

The worse trend I've seen is "unlimited PTO". Great ploy to get people to not track how little PTO they're taking.

In hours: 80 Sick and 144 PTO. 224 PTO once you hit 4 years.

Can rollover up to 120 hours sick and 200 hours PTO.

I've seen a lot of time off policies for varying sized organizations. Though Paycom's time-off offerings have room for improvement, they are definitely above average.

I don't really know how Paycom operates but those PTO numbers don't look bad at all. Also encouraging to see the company offering some paid paternal leave. The US is shamefully behind the rest of the world when it comes to any type of paid parental leave.

Well so it sounds like the entry level folks are still treated pretty poorly. If you "survive", then you are welcomed into the club. Otherwise, you're fodder for the revolving door.

That's pretty sad in today's world in that most employees don't stay at the same job more than 4 or 5 years these days. And that's for professionals too. Maybe they use that as the carrot to dangle to keep them there? It's a strategy, I guess. An outdated one in my opinion, but it's their company.

The PTO listed above isn't bad. I've really enjoyed the FTO policy my company offers salary employees. I just don't have to worry about if I want to take a week in the summer and a week at Christmas with some days in between for whatever, that I have to track the numbers. I'm pretty hard core on forcing the work-life balance, but I dont take off very often in general (PTO or FTO). But when the day is over, it's time for my family. Yeah i'll check emails and if something comes up, then i deal with it. But i'm not regularly working late and actually block my day for lunch and for a few hours after my end of the day on purpose. I'm also a remote worker in this post-covid world. I've been very happy with my job and leadership, and they've been happy with me. So i'd say it's working out pretty well.

I don't think that I would be compatible with Paycom IT. I met their CIO one time at a vendor lunch event (not sure if it's still the same guy). I'm sure he's one of those that banked on that early stock and is probably swimming in it now. But the lack of any work-life balance he had just wasn't for me. I'd rather sacrifice that extra money to be able to say that I can play with my kids and go to ALL of their activities each week. AND be present to help my wife. She has her own career too so if i'm spending 70 hours at work, how is it fair to her. Sorry folks, this style Paycom pushes just isn't for me. If it's for you, more power to you. Have fun.

Well so it sounds like the entry level folks are still treated pretty poorly. If you "survive", then you are welcomed into the club. Otherwise, you're fodder for the revolving door.

That's pretty sad in today's world in that most employees don't stay at the same job more than 4 or 5 years these days. And that's for professionals too. Maybe they use that as the carrot to dangle to keep them there? It's a strategy, I guess. An outdated one in my opinion, but it's their company.

The PTO listed above isn't bad. I've really enjoyed the FTO policy my company offers salary employees. I just don't have to worry about if I want to take a week in the summer and a week at Christmas with some days in between for whatever, that I have to track the numbers. I'm pretty hard core on forcing the work-life balance, but I dont take off very often in general (PTO or FTO). But when the day is over, it's time for my family. Yeah i'll check emails and if something comes up, then i deal with it. But i'm not regularly working late and actually block my day for lunch and for a few hours after my end of the day on purpose. I'm also a remote worker in this post-covid world. I've been very happy with my job and leadership, and they've been happy with me. So i'd say it's working out pretty well.

I don't think that I would be compatible with Paycom IT. I met their CIO one time at a vendor lunch event (not sure if it's still the same guy). I'm sure he's one of those that banked on that early stock and is probably swimming in it now. But the lack of any work-life balance he had just wasn't for me. I'd rather sacrifice that extra money to be able to say that I can play with my kids and go to ALL of their activities each week. AND be present to help my wife. She has her own career too so if i'm spending 70 hours at work, how is it fair to her. Sorry folks, this style Paycom pushes just isn't for me. If it's for you, more power to you. Have fun.

I mean, a lot of companies are like this. Not just Paycom. CPA firms are VERY notorious for weeding newbies out in the first year.

But most big companies grind new hires, and you are rewarded as you move up for basically surviving.

I must just be in the right department because my job is very chill, we work our 8 hours, M-F and that's it. I also feel I'm paid well for what I do. I've never once felt stressed or contemplated quitting. Also have great time off accruals and pretty good benefits. I honestly love my job and this company.

I must just be in the right department because my job is very chill, we work our 8 hours, M-F and that's it. I also feel I'm paid well for what I do. I've never once felt stressed or contemplated quitting. Also have great time off accruals and pretty good benefits. I honestly love my job and this company.

What dept are you in?

What dept are you in?

Development

Development

Yeah, I can see that. Thats a skilled position high in demand. They would struggle if they ran developers off.

I think also it's probably worth mentioning that the most grind oriented positions @ Paycom are customer service jobs. Customer Service is rough the world over, so no reason to expect Paycom to somehow overcome that. If someone struggles with a grind, they should be leery of signing up to any customer service position in any organization.

At Paycom you at least have a path to great pay (six figures, at any rate) with customer service staying in the same role while also having long term growth options if you wish to grow beyond the role.

Customer Service is tough no matter where you work because you deal with the incredibly unpolite public. However, it's also considered a pretty low-skill position. That's why its often paid pretty poorly and the type of person that is typically hired in that role, tends to be part of the revolving door problem. This is true at any organization. That's one reason why you see this being outsourced so much. Basically, offloading the stress and the headaches to the contract holder. If Paycom has a path for someone in that area to make 6 figures (and not just as the director), then they are most definitely unique and props to them. Those folks that stay and become your team leads or managers are incredibly assets.

Now if they would relax on the working in the office thing, they might be caught up a bit more to the 21st century. But i really dont expect that to happen. You dont build new buildings of the size they are, if you ever plan on having them sit empty. Owning it themselves means the cost for that is cheaper than if it was a lease in some office building too. And they certainly have the space to grow for any foreseeable future with that model. And honestly, i think the market is going to level out in the next year or two so employees have less power in forcing the corporate hands on things like this.

Customer Service is tough no matter where you work because you deal with the incredibly unpolite public. However, it's also considered a pretty low-skill position. That's why its often paid pretty poorly and the type of person that is typically hired in that role, tends to be part of the revolving door problem. This is true at any organization. That's one reason why you see this being outsourced so much. Basically, offloading the stress and the headaches to the contract holder. If Paycom has a path for someone in that area to make 6 figures (and not just as the director), then they are most definitely unique and props to them. Those folks that stay and become your team leads or managers are incredibly assets.

Now if they would relax on the working in the office thing, they might be caught up a bit more to the 21st century. But i really dont expect that to happen. You dont build new buildings of the size they are, if you ever plan on having them sit empty. Owning it themselves means the cost for that is cheaper than if it was a lease in some office building too. And they certainly have the space to grow for any foreseeable future with that model. And honestly, i think the market is going to level out in the next year or two so employees have less power in forcing the corporate hands on things like this.

The issue is that the requirements up until recently were bachelor's required, thus people taking the job didn't feel like they deserved to be crapped on. Especially as it is ingrained in the culture to just take the beating. A decent percentage of the income is from commission, which is based solely on the sales team. The sales team makes a lot of empty promises and sells the product knowing it can't do what they say it can, this only leads to massive problems on the office employee dealings with customers. When these tactics are supported by the higher up's at the company, it makes feeling like someone has your back, very difficult.

In regards to working from home, I never expect that to be an option. When COVID happened and everyone was forced to work from home, it really took a way a lot of their arguments around security, so now it's about maintaining the "Culture".

I have been one of the biggest naysayer's towards Paycom for a while on this thread and that's not likely to change given my understanding of the company. I know that there are certain posters that think it's a great company to work for, and in many ways it is, I'd be lying if I said there aren't things they do that are positives. But to defend it as if it's the greatest gift to employment is not really appropriate.

There must be different departments that have different WFH rules - a guy I know works from home 4 days a week and has to come in one day. Been that way since COVID and still is, for him/his dept. at least.

There must be different departments that have different WFH rules - a guy I know works from home 4 days a week and has to come in one day. Been that way since COVID and still is, for him/his dept. at least.

Yeah I think they have a couple of departments that do that, I'm not exactly sure what they do, but I think it's more on the software IT side.

Yeah I think they have a couple of departments that do that, I'm not exactly sure what they do, but I think it's more on the software IT side.

When I interviewed for a Business Analyst opening in IT, I was told the BAs had WFH 4 days and one day in the office. The office day depended on which department you supported. The pay range was a little above average for my experience and the OKC market. I did find it interesting that I passed the first 2 phone interviews but was passed over on the final (Zoom) interview. I suspect they saw I was in my 60's and they didn't want to go there.

Desirable skills and education gets you a lot more perks and pay. Unless of course, your company gets bought by Elon. But I'm sure once he gets done with his "loyalty tests" the perks will be higher than paycom. Lol

I think also it's probably worth mentioning that the most grind oriented positions @ Paycom are customer service jobs. Customer Service is rough the world over, so no reason to expect Paycom to somehow overcome that. If someone struggles with a grind, they should be leery of signing up to any customer service position in any organization.

At Paycom you at least have a path to great pay (six figures, at any rate) with customer service staying in the same role while also having long term growth options if you wish to grow beyond the role.

Nonsense. Paycom isn't using Indian call centers nor is it the Water Utility. It's a for-profit, NYSE listed business, and it's also lame to say Customer Service is bad all over, so we won't try to be better than anyone else.

The issue is that the requirements up until recently were bachelor's required, thus people taking the job didn't feel like they deserved to be crapped on. Especially as it is ingrained in the culture to just take the beating. A decent percentage of the income is from commission, which is based solely on the sales team. The sales team makes a lot of empty promises and sells the product knowing it can't do what they say it can, this only leads to massive problems on the office employee dealings with customers. When these tactics are supported by the higher up's at the company, it makes feeling like someone has your back, very difficult.

In regards to working from home, I never expect that to be an option. When COVID happened and everyone was forced to work from home, it really took a way a lot of their arguments around security, so now it's about maintaining the "Culture".

I have been one of the biggest naysayer's towards Paycom for a while on this thread and that's not likely to change given my understanding of the company. I know that there are certain posters that think it's a great company to work for, and in many ways it is, I'd be lying if I said there aren't things they do that are positives. But to defend it as if it's the greatest gift to employment is not really appropriate.

Wow, a bachelor's for call center huh? Well I can see the thought that you have a better skilled person, but as you said, no degree holder is going to put up with that crap. Especially not at low pay.

Now sales team members overpromising....well that's any sales team. I've never worked with a sales team that didn't overpromise and then yell at everyone when they say "but we promised this" and the teams says "well why the hell did you do that? we can't do that". Sales will say whatever it takes to close the deal, truthful or not. :P

Now what i do like about large companies with a campus, is the free onsite gym. My office has since moved buildings, but our campus did install a gym. COVID cause tenants to all leave, so the gym went from free for all tenants to pay, so absolutely zero people use it. What a waste. Luckily, i got in to a insurance sponsored gym membership program years and years ago. I've changed insurances 5 times since then, but have continued to pay my $15 a month to get access to that. I've been saying at least that much each month on my memberships for years now so I'm going to hold on to that with my claws! But those amenities can be a real positive thing for employees. On-site coffee shops, eateries, etc. So Paycom does seem to be able to provide some of those nice things that aren't part of the salary, but are important for the employee's overall "happiness".

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the large number of QA employees who are now on the Job market because Paycom decided to make everyone come back to the office next week. Which is fine, but they only gave him 1 months noticed to find childcare. Oh, and developers have more pull so they got until March. I guess that was Paycom's Christmas present.

I think there are apps for finding babysitters, what's the big deal?

Paycom sounds like a dumb boomer suburban company - smart companies realize allowing remote positions broadens the talent pool.

Was surprised no one had mentioned this as well ^. Apparently the company had several open forums, meetings, etc. and basically shut down all employee questions.

Have seen a lot of people from PayCom on LinkedIn looking for new opportunities. Can you imagine your supervisor telling you WFH was permanent, buying a house somewhere, and then suddenly being told you have to move back to OKC in one month or be terminated?

Slimy move.

I think there are apps for finding babysitters, what's the big deal?

Paycom sounds like a dumb boomer suburban company - smart companies realize allowing remote positions broadens the talent pool.

Yep,

My company is doing the opposite. With the current belt tightening in the tech industry we are sending people home for remote work/hybrid work and closing or shrinking physical offices worldwide to save money on real estate instead of on fewer people. Remote work is the future unless there is a real need to be in the office.

You would think that a company like Paycom would embrace this reality and work to assist companies with the tax and legal implications of having employees in more states and countries.

Like I mentioned upthread, they are on the Elon Musk bandwagon.

Paycom is not the only tech company that has taken its strategy. There are definite benefits to working in the office and I'd say it is not an industry trend to save money on real estate but rather it is a carrot to get talent that otherwise would not relocate to said city.

the only thing I find ridiculous on Paycom's part is the lack of notice, which is something to be salty about despite the babysitting apps available.