I think OKC has become so paranoid (and rightfully so) over losing every major corporate employer, it's just become an automatic reaction that the company will leave. OK so needs to just eliminate their corporate income tax. It doesn't bring in that much revenue anyway.

I think OKC has become so paranoid (and rightfully so) over losing every major corporate employer, it's just become an automatic reaction that the company will leave. OK so needs to just eliminate their corporate income tax. It doesn't bring in that much revenue anyway.

More than that, the education level needs to increase. Can't do anything about DFW having 2 times as many people as Oklahoma, but if we can increase our level of adequately-educated citizens, then it will help us to possibly get some relocations, rather than having to dread them leaving.

More than that, the education level needs to increase. Can't do anything about DFW having 2 times as many people as Oklahoma, but if we can increase our level of adequately-educated citizens, then it will help us to possibly get some relocations, rather than having to dread them leaving.

Just a side note, the DFW metro area is close to becoming the 3rd most populous in the US after NYC and LA with DFW growing and Chicago declining population.

Just a side note, the DFW metro area is close to becoming the 3rd most populous in the US after NYC and LA with DFW growing and Chicago declining population.

per the 2022 estimate it was 1.3+ behind Chicago land ..

down from 1.8+ in 2020 ..

at that pace it would become #3 in 6 years (2028) or so

per the 2022 estimate it was 1.3+ behind Chicago land ..

down from 1.8+ in 2020 ..

at that pace it would become #3 in 6 years (2028) or so

The Washington DC/Baltimore CSA has already passed the Chicago CSA for 3rd. 10.0 million vs 9.8 million. The DFW CSA is 6th with 8.5 million people.

The Washington DC/Baltimore CSA has already passed the Chicago CSA for 3rd. 10.0 million vs 9.8 million. The DFW CSA is 6th with 8.5 million people.

Where are you getting that? DFW is still fourth ahead of Houston in 5th and DC is well behind in 6th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area

https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/largest-cities-by-population

https://www.statista.com/statistics/183600/population-of-metropolitan-areas-in-the-us/

https://www.thoughtco.com/largest-metropolitan-areas-1435135

Seems like lots of different numbers.

Where are you getting that? DFW is still fourth ahead of Houston in 5th and DC is well behind in 6th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area

he was using CSA which combines MSA's there is little reason to do that ..

we were talking about metros

he was using CSA which combines MSA's there is little reason to do that ..

we were talking about metros
Like a lot of stats, depending on where you want to limit the data, you can frame your own truth.

he was using CSA which combines MSA's there is little reason to do that ..

we were talking about metros

To be fair, Baltimore is about 5 miles further from D.C. than Dallas is from Fort Worth.

true, but DC and Baltimore do not act like a single metropolis, whereas Dallas and Fort Worth do.

Similarly, you could add Milwaukee to Chicagoland and get more than 12 million people (close to LA), but do THEY act like a single metropolis? No.

This is why I think CSAs are so stupid. Tjhey just should apply to areas that were singled as MSA but have external areas that add to the MSA - just make it the MSA then. Im thinking of the OKC MSA vs CSA - why separate out Shawnee and not add Stillwater when they all act like/depend on Oklahoma City (especially Shawnee, which used to officially be part of OKC metro). In DFW case, I don't see a difference between CSA or MSA, it's the same metropolis. And as someone who lived in DC, I don't recall ever Baltimore considered a part of DC or even a twin city; even though you could argue some of the mariland suburbs would be DC or Baltimore.

I'd argue that LA should include Riverside MSA in the LA MSA, but since they don't then they cant do DC/Baltimore either.

true, but DC and Baltimore do not act like a single metropolis, whereas Dallas and Fort Worth do.

Similarly, you could add Milwaukee to Chicagoland and get more than 12 million people (close to LA), but do THEY act like a single metropolis? No.

This is why I think CSAs are so stupid. Tjhey just should apply to areas that were singled as MSA but have external areas that add to the MSA - just make it the MSA then. Im thinking of the OKC MSA vs CSA - why separate out Shawnee and not add Stillwater when they all act like/depend on Oklahoma City (especially Shawnee, which used to officially be part of OKC metro). In DFW case, I don't see a difference between CSA or MSA, it's the same metropolis. And as someone who lived in DC, I don't recall ever Baltimore considered a part of DC or even a twin city; even though you could argue some of the mariland suburbs would be DC or Baltimore.

I'd argue that LA should include Riverside MSA in the LA MSA, but since they don't then they cant do DC/Baltimore either.

If you've ever driven Washington DC to Baltimore you can argue they are every bit as connected as DFW. BWI isn't as big as DFW but there are has 3 major airports vs 1. Texas loves to claim it all together as they love to claim everything in Texas is bigger. LOL.

on the Paycom/OKC business relocation to DFW/Houston issue, I think OKC has passed that page of being scared of companies moving away. Given OKC's growth and cache (aka Thunder, big city offerings), it's turned the page as the business incubator for DFW imo.

Now it'd be even better if Oklahoma would (say) drop Income Tax and/or Corporate AND improve spending on Education, then we'd see companies probably move back. But even without that, OKC can better hold its own as long as the companies themselves are loyal to OKC and not just chasing.

If you've ever driven Washington DC to Baltimore you can argue they are every bit as connected as DFW. BWI isn't as big as DFW but the are has 3 major airports vs 1.

I lived there before. Trust me, nobody in DC thought of Baltimore as a twin city. And MD suburbs decide if they're DC or Baltimore, there IS a distinction. I agree from driving prospective it's all pretty much built up. But so is Milwaukee to Chicago or Riverside to LA (multiple airports in these too), yet those clearly are not considered single metropli.

If you've ever driven Washington DC to Baltimore you can argue they are every bit as connected as DFW. BWI isn't as big as DFW but there are has 3 major airports vs 1. Texas loves to claim it all together as they love to claim everything in Texas is bigger. LOL.

loves field is not much smaller then dulles

loves field is not much smaller then dulles

Both Dulles and Reagan are each about 8 million more passengers, or each one 55% bigger than Loves. BWI is also bigger by about 6 million passengers, or 45% bigger.

Both Dulles and Reagan are each about 8 million more passengers, or each one 55% bigger than Loves. BWI is also bigger by about 6 million passengers, or 45% bigger.

by enplanements what the FAA uses to give airports money

Dulles 10.2 mil
Love Field 7.8 mil

love field is 20% smaller i grant you that

by enplanements what the FAA uses to give airports money

Dulles 10.2 mil
Love Field 7.8 mil

love field is 20% smaller i grant you that

Then I assume that there are way more people who come to the DC area and stay than in the DFW area.

And, considering that the trains serving the BW area transport many more people than trains in DFW, there are way more people coming in and out of the area all the time.

How did this thread turn into a discussion or low-key argument about DC's airports versus DFW's? Or the nuances of different ways to count the populations of suburban areas in other parts of the country? Why is any of this relevant to Paycom? Or OKC?

If you've ever driven Washington DC to Baltimore you can argue they are every bit as connected as DFW. BWI isn't as big as DFW but there are has 3 major airports vs 1. Texas loves to claim it all together as they love to claim everything in Texas is bigger. LOL.

Quantity doesn't necessarily equal quality!

Paycom Software Stock Sinks 37% as Analysts Downgrade the Stock After Revenue Cut 11/1/2023 Largest fall on the NASDAQ this year.

Maybe is a good time to buy at a discount.

on the Paycom/OKC business relocation to DFW/Houston issue, I think OKC has passed that page of being scared of companies moving away. Given OKC's growth and cache (aka Thunder, big city offerings), it's turned the page as the business incubator for DFW imo.

Now it'd be even better if Oklahoma would (say) drop Income Tax and/or Corporate AND improve spending on Education, then we'd see companies probably move back. But even without that, OKC can better hold its own as long as the companies themselves are loyal to OKC and not just chasing.

This is an honest question. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I genuinely want to know.

You say we'd see companies come back to the state. What companies are you thinking about when you say that? What companies have left that would come back?

Also, you say we should eliminate income tax and/or corporate tax but increase education spending. Will we raise taxes other places? Will sales taxes or property taxes be increased?

One thing I would suggest is consolidating and eliminating school districts. We have way too many districts for a state this size. When you have districts like Taloga that consists of 97 students total when Seiling is 15 minutes away, that's just a waste of money. Building maintenance and upkeep, technology, teachers, staff, principal(s), superintendent, and other expenses to run a district all for 97 students.

Once we downsize our districts then we should cut administration staff. We've got some schools with as many or more administrative staff as teachers. I think being more efficient would go a long way in helping.

One thing I would suggest is consolidating and eliminating school districts. We have way too many districts for a state this size. When you have districts like Taloga that consists of 97 students total when Seiling is 15 minutes away, that's just a waste of money. Building maintenance and upkeep, technology, teachers, staff, principal(s), superintendent, and other expenses to run a district all for 97 students.

Once we downsize our districts then we should cut administration staff. We've got some schools with as many or more administrative staff as teachers. I think being more efficient would go a long way in helping.

Not to take this thread too far off track, but I think this well-intended solution that is often thrown around would have minimal impacts (on top of being political dynamite for elected officials in rural areas).

The latest estimate that I could find is that if we consolidated some of the 390 districts (out of 525) that serve under 1000 students and brought the number down to 200 districts, the state could save up to $27 million (Source: https://apnews.com/13882329f06c4ed389ee57f69be84f92/Report:-Oklahoma-school-consolidation-could-save-$27M).

However, distributed over Oklahoma's ~700,000 public school students that is only $38 per student.

Right now, Oklahoma ranks 46th in per-pupil spending as of 2021-2022 (source: https://www.nea.org/sites/default/files/2023-04/2023-rankings-and-estimates-report.pdf), at $10,915 per enrolled student. With the cost savings from consolidating 2/3 of the state's districts, we'd increase our per-pupil spending ranking to... 46th still. Missouri is in 45th place, at $11,043.

The Oklahoma Policy Institute looked at this from a slightly different angle (per-pupil spending on district administration) and found that even if we got our per-pupil district administrative funding on par with the lowest in the nation—Hawaii—and applied it to per-pupil instructional funding that we wouldn't even move up a ranking, either. (Source: https://okpolicy.org/school-consolidation-wont-fix-the-funding-gap/).

I don't have a dog in this fight and don't even have children... I just often hear this idea thrown around (not trying to pick on you, specifically) that if we could only consolidate all the districts and reign in the reckless administrative spending on superintendent salaries that we could drastically improve our educational investment situation. Even if we did that, it would take way, way more to be on par with most other states. Anyway, back off the soapbox I go... lol.

The latest estimate that I could find is that if we consolidated some of the 390 districts (out of 525) that serve under 1000 students and brought the number down to 200 districts, the state could save up to $27 million (Source: https://apnews.com/13882329f06c4ed389ee57f69be84f92/Report:-Oklahoma-school-consolidation-could-save-$27M).

However, distributed over Oklahoma's ~700,000 public school students that is only $38 per student.


the entire state of Florida has 73 school districts ..

but saying 27 mil won't make a difference so lets not do it ...

does 100 million make a difference? ?

does 200??

However, distributed over Oklahoma's ~700,000 public school students that is only $38 per student.


an extra $38 per student per year?.... that is a lot of money.

Legislature won't ever pass any law to consolidate school districts here. It is political suicide as towns love their school districts and want the government out of them.

That being said you could incentivize consolidation or just let them close down by sheer attrition as rural towns are shrinking in population.

an extra $38 per student per year?.... that is a lot of money.

Like I said, I'm not opposed to consolidation (if it could somehow be politically feasible in many parts of the state). And yes, no one is saying $27 million is something to sneeze at.

The context of the original discussion was steps we could do to make companies move (back?) to Oklahoma, and the perennial discussion of the impact of education funding here on companies' willingness to relocate here, etc. My point was just that consolidation alone likely wouldn't make much of an impact on these companies' decisions as was brought up.

my thought is if we decreased or eliminated taxes (income, corporate, or both) then we could lure companies (and those that left, back) due to OKC's other advantages that have arrived at the companies OKC has been able to land. Once companies relocate, that's additional revenue that could offset the reductions. Furthermore, once companies relocate/return then residents follow. Again, OKC is seeing that and you can see the result (just look at the MAPS projections over time - they are now $125 million per year approximately vs. in 2017ish they were estimated to be $95 million) dont quote me on the exact figures but you get my point/idea that OKC has increased population and cache of retail such that revenue from the 1 cent sales tax is consistently at least $125 million per year (regardless of recession).

We can get creative on how to fund education if necessary, but another point if IN THE CURRENT model education in Oklahoma is underfunded. How does TX or other states do it? Perhaps we could case study those jurisdictions and model Oklahoma accordingly.

As far as district consolidation, the rural areas should have a county or multi-county district. It amazes me in a so called Republican state that schools are used as an excuse for high paying jobs in rural areas. This needs to end, combine or eliminate districts so that the money can be more efficiently used where the students are and not because Sup Billy Bob in rural america with 50 students thinks he should have a $100K salary because Sup Joe Cartright (also with 50 students) the next town over and OKCPS super (with more than 43K students) has it too.

my thought is if we decreased or eliminated taxes (income, corporate, or both) then we could lure companies (and those that left, back) due to OKC's other advantages that have arrived at the companies OKC has been able to land. Once companies relocate, that's additional revenue that could offset the reductions. Furthermore, once companies relocate/return then residents follow. Again, OKC is seeing that and you can see the result (just look at the MAPS projections over time - they are now $125 million per year approximately vs. in 2017ish they were estimated to be $95 million) dont quote me on the exact figures but you get my point/idea that OKC has increased population and cache of retail such that revenue from the 1 cent sales tax is consistently at least $125 million per year (regardless of recession).

We can get creative on how to fund education if necessary, but another point if IN THE CURRENT model education in Oklahoma is underfunded. How does TX or other states do it? Perhaps we could case study those jurisdictions and model Oklahoma accordingly.

As far as district consolidation, the rural areas should have a county or multi-county district. It amazes me in a so called Republican state that schools are used as an excuse for high paying jobs in rural areas. This needs to end, combine or eliminate districts so that the money can be more efficiently used where the students are and not because Sup Billy Bob in rural america with 50 students thinks he should have a $100K salary because Sup Joe Cartright (also with 50 students) the next town over and OKCPS super (with more than 43K students) has it too.

The problem is, going straight to 0% is not going to help anything. If companies don't come here, then we have no state revenue to pay for education or mental health or other things. Then Oklahoma kids may not be able to spell their own names.

TX can do it because they have 30 million people, so human capital is huge there. Most aren't any smarter than people here, there are just more people who are smart by virtue of having 7 times the population.

I agree with you on the districting, though. 100%.

I think a graduated decrease in income tax would be easier to swallow, as it gives the Legislators a period of time to figure out ways to replace lost revenue.

If we eliminate all those districts what are we gonna do with the dirt? Small towns are dying and people are moving to the city. We gonna wall off thousands of acres to human residence? We gonna set up a 35 mile radius between each "civic center", that consists of a school, police, clinic, social services, gas station, and Hunt Brothers Pizza?

If we eliminate all those districts what are we gonna do with the dirt? Small towns are dying and people are moving to the city. We gonna wall off thousands of acres to human residence? We gonna set up a 35 mile radius between each "civic center", that consists of a school, police, clinic, social services, gas station, and Hunt Brothers Pizza?

Huh?

This has gone way off topic. Back to Paycom please

This has gone way off topic. Back to Paycom please
LOL.
These threads remind me of going to a t-ball game of 6 year olds. While the batter is up they are chasing butterflies and running all over the field and missing the actual play. No discipline and no understanding of what is actually happening. Just responding to the next distraction and taking off in that direction.

LOL.
These threads remind me of going to a t-ball game of 6 year olds. While the batter is up they are chasing butterflies and running all over the field and missing the actual play. No discipline and no understanding of what is actually happening. Just responding to the next distraction and taking off in that direction.

This is the perfect way of putting it, it's astounding how easily these things go off track and take Pete or Martin coming and and shaking the ruler before everyone lets these tangents go.

This is the perfect way of putting it, it's astounding how easily these things go off track and take Pete or Martin coming and and shaking the ruler before everyone lets these tangents go.

lol. now we are on a tangent about tangents!

lol. now we are on a tangent about tangents!
The problem is that without real news to discuss on the topic, pretty soon we start getting repetitive comments and criticisms and I think posters get bored. There are some who want to introduce the same criticisms and comments on every thread, no matter the real subject. So soon, it becomes a platform for philosophizing and pontificating.

Is there real new news on the headquarters?

i am curious if they are scaling back on some things. the most recent post on the parking garage, seems to show the new garage being about half the size of the original plans for it. which is an interesting choice, i'm also curious if the plans for the screen for the drive in movie theater have been scrapped, because didn't see anything in those plans for it, as that was the original plan. we also haven't heard anything more about the new gym expansion either. so curious if that is still going to continue. especially with the stock price reset... i'm curious if a lot of things start to get scaled back a bit.

If nothing else, the drive-in theater should be scrapped simply because that never made any sense except between (roughly) March 12th, 2020 and January 31st, 2022.

Paycom is taking 44,000 SF on the 3rd floor of the big former industrial building at 7725 W. Reno.

You can see from the floorplan, tons of cubicles and no outside windows in the whole place. There is also a large meeting room.

Looks like about 450 desks.

Maybe this is the IT department and Paycom also has a server farm in this building?

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/paycom120123b.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/paycom120123a.jpg

We sure this isn't the blueprint for the new jail?

I know several CACI employees. I bring that up because they are all unanimous in their dislike of the current Paycom Employees that work here already. Idk, just thought that was interesting. I need to ask them specifically what the beef is.

https://7725connect.com/about-us/

that is the old Lucent technology building .. (ATT before that Celestica after)

https://7725connect.com/about-us/

that is the old Lucent technology building .. (ATT before that Celestica after)

And originally Western Electric.

Paycom is taking 44,000 SF on the 3rd floor of the big former industrial building at 7725 W. Reno.

You can see from the floorplan, tons of cubicles and no outside windows in the whole place. There is also a large meeting room.

Looks like about 450 desks.

Maybe this is the IT department and Paycom also has a server farm in this building?

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/paycom120123b.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/paycom120123a.jpg

I don't think Paycom would take servers off OKC or Grapevine HQs. This should be for operations EEs.

They have been down in that location for a bit and are making it better suited to their needs. They call it their "HUB", which has their tax teams and a few other departments.

Legislature won't ever pass any law to consolidate school districts here. It is political suicide as towns love their school districts and want the government out of them.

That being said you could incentivize consolidation or just let them close down by sheer attrition as rural towns are shrinking in population.

The truth is one of the funniest things I’ve ever heard in my life. ����

They have been down in that location for a bit and are making it better suited to their needs. They call it their "HUB", which has their tax teams and a few other departments.

My daughter and son-in-law have been at that location for well over a year. The building itself is a piece of junk. Roof leaks, nasty restrooms, etc. Paycom pays them a subsidy each check for "Commuting" costs.

My daughter and son-in-law have been at that location for well over a year. The building itself is a piece of junk. Roof leaks, nasty restrooms, etc. Paycom pays them a subsidy each check for "Commuting" costs.

That reminds me of multiple office space conversions I have worked in around town, where the property is limping along after losing it's original function, either not making enough to really keep it up with maintenance needed or owner is just going to run it as is till no one is willing to rent it. Somewhat aided that OKC is/was (at least pre-covid) relatively tight on office space available to rent.

That sounds miserable, no windows in the middle of the floor. Also looks exactly like a jail so that's good for moral.

That sounds miserable, no windows in the middle of the floor. Also looks exactly like a jail so that's good for moral.

Good for a tax team- HA

Never mind . . .

Good for a tax team- HA

"Are they developers? "No?" "Plan Approved!"

Learn to code if you want windows. Just be sure to smarter than the AI.

Let's be honest though, Windows is a luxury at most cube farms.

Def depends on the cube farm. Some of those cut rate telemarketing companies in old K-mart spaces sure would be like a Joe-and-The-Volcano dungeon. Most corporate cube farms are pretty decent.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/paycom052424a.jpg

You would think they might invest into some covered parking for quality of life for their employees and some protection against the spring and fall hail we tend to get. Instead, the vehicles get to bake in the sun and get beaten by hail every year.

You would think they might invest into some covered parking for quality of life for their employees and some protection against the spring and fall hail we tend to get. Instead, the vehicles get to bake in the sun and get beaten by hail every year.

Uncovered surface parking is pretty normal. The only covered surface lot in OKC that I am aware is at the VA hospital where about 1/2 of the surface parking is covered to support solar cells. Are there any others?

Uncovered surface parking is pretty normal. The only covered surface lot in OKC that I am aware is at the VA hospital where about 1/2 of the surface parking is covered to support solar cells. Are there any others?

They’ve got two parking garages on the west side of the property, with another on the way.

You would think they might invest into some covered parking for quality of life for their employees and some protection against the spring and fall hail we tend to get. Instead, the vehicles get to bake in the sun and get beaten by hail every year.

There are two parking garages with another in the pipeline

Uncovered surface parking is pretty normal. The only covered surface lot in OKC that I am aware is at the VA hospital where about 1/2 of the surface parking is covered to support solar cells. Are there any others?

IBC Bank on the Expressway has some