# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Tulsa & Suburbs >  VisionTulsa (Tulsas version of MAPS) to go to voters April 5th

## Swake

Tulsas new vision proposal is in and will be voted on in April. It includes new permanent funding for police, fire, street repairs and mass transit.

The Vision part of the proposal includes replacing the dam on the Arkansas at 31st and Riverside a new dam at 106th and Riverside with boat docks and new trails. The new dams cost is to be split with Jenks and the Creek Nation as the west bank of the river there is in Jenks and the new dam will be near the Riverspirit/Margaritaville Casino and the Creek Nation owned Riverwalk with the new Top Golf type place.  

Theres also money for the zoo, the fairgrounds, Gilcrease, the childrens museum planned for the gathering place, an expansion to the convention center and a new BMX National Headquarters

http://tulsacouncil.org/media/115206...1-28-16%29.pdf

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## Laramie

Vision 2025 has the same momentum as OKC's MAPS.  They have some really cool projects which might come to fruition. 




> The city’s Vision proposal includes $320 million for public safety, $60 million for transit, $177 million for dams and other infrastructure in the Arkansas River, and the remainder for economic development projects.


Vision 2025 proposal in flux as councilors ponder public safety funding: https://www.readfrontier.com/spotlig...afety-funding/

Connecting Tulsa districts for walk-ability/Streetscaping: http://www.newson6.com/story/3059136...ulsa-districts

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## Laramie

*Tulsa:*

19 downtown development projects you should know about

See any similar developments like _The Edge_ in Oklahoma City's Midtown?

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## Snowman

> Tulsa’s new vision proposal is in and will be voted on in April. It includes new permanent funding for police, fire, street repairs and mass transit.
> 
> The Vision part of the proposal includes replacing the dam on the Arkansas at 31st and Riverside a new dam at 106th and Riverside with boat docks and new trails. The new dam’s cost is to be split with Jenks and the Creek Nation as the west bank of the river there is in Jenks and the new dam will be near the Riverspirit/Margaritaville Casino and the Creek Nation owned Riverwalk with the new Top Golf type place.  
> 
> There’s also money for the zoo, the fairgrounds, Gilcrease, the children’s museum planned for the gathering place, an expansion to the convention center and a new BMX National Headquarters
> 
> http://tulsacouncil.org/media/115206...1-28-16%29.pdf


I noticed they mention funding for operations in the mass transit itemization and do not specifically say it is capital costs on police and fire. Are they doing this as multiple options or has the state law been softened for these, cause one thing we hear with every new MAPS round is it only barely gets by state log rolling restrictions due to them all being capital projects.

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## Spartan

Bmx?

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## Colbafone

BMX = Bicycle Motocross. Extreme Bicycle racing. Matt Hoffman, from Edmond is a BMX pioneer. If you have ever seen bikes at a skate park, those are BMX bikes. It's certainly a niche thing, but having a national headquarters for it in OK is pretty awesome.

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## ljbab728

> Tulsa’s new vision proposal is in and will be voted on in April. It includes new permanent funding for police, fire, street repairs and mass transit.


So that means that part of this is for a permanent tax that won't expire like the MAPS tax does?

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## Swake

> So that means that part of this is for a permanent tax that won't expire like the MAPS tax does?


Right, trying to fix the city budget going forward.

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## ljbab728

> Right, trying to fix the city budget going forward.


Does Tulsa not already have any taxes pledged to any of those things like OKC does?

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## Plutonic Panda

What is going on with the Pop Cultural Museum?

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## Swake

> What is going on with the Pop Cultural Museum?


They are working on the final fundraising and design. They have a up to date website:
OKPOP

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## Spartan

> BMX = Bicycle Motocross. Extreme Bicycle racing. Matt Hoffman, from Edmond is a BMX pioneer. If you have ever seen bikes at a skate park, those are BMX bikes. It's certainly a niche thing, but having a national headquarters for it in OK is pretty awesome.


What makes the proposed Tulsa park better than ours?

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## Zorba

> Vision 2025 has the same momentum as OKC's MAPS.  They have some really cool projects which might come to fruition.


Considering the last vision plan got voted down by like 70% back in 2012, I am not sure you can claim it has the same momentum as MAPS. Tulsa also sells bonds, so the work is done quicker, but at a far higher cost overall. 

Also they always promise new dams, then pull the rug out on it. Based on the fact dams are always promised, then nothing, and how horrible the package in 2012 was, I'd have a very hard time voting for this without a lot of research.

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## Swake

Between the City of Tulsa vote, the county vote and various suburbs voting there's over a billion dollars in projects on the ballot today.

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## HOT ROD

Interesting that Tulsa's 'vision' is always a Metropolitan (or at least City and County) vote/tax whereas MAPS is always only Oklahoma City. 

I wonder if OKC did it metro-wide how much additional dollars would be raised. Probably quiet significant increase.

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## Laramie

> Interesting that Tulsa's 'vision' is always a Metropolitan (or at least City and County) vote/tax whereas MAPS is always only Oklahoma City. 
> 
> I wonder if OKC did it metro-wide how much additional dollars would be raised. Probably quiet significant increase.





> Due to the overwhelming success of MAPS and recognizing the needs of the city’s struggling public schools, Oklahoma City proposed a second MAPS initiative. MAPS for Kids went before voters in 2001 and passed with a 61 percent majority. The new sales tax generated $514 million along with a $180 million Oklahoma City Public Schools bond issue, which was used for school facility improvements, technology and transportation projects. Seventy percent of the sales tax funds were disbursed to the Oklahoma City Public School District and 30 percent to surrounding suburban districts. When the last facility is constructed in 2013, the program will have built or renovated 70 Oklahoma City Public School buildings *and provided funding for hundreds of other metro area school projects.*


IIRC MAPS for Kids included some of the suburbs:  https://www.okc.gov/maps3/mapshistory.html

When this tax expired; the 6-month extension provided funding for Chesapeake Energy Arena (former Ford Center) & the Thunder's new practice facility; the city saved money by cutting the onsite Arena warm up gym:  Ford Center practice gym eliminated from renovations | News OK




> In 2008, the citizens approved another short term one-cent sales tax after the MAPS for Kids tax expired to fund improvements at the downtown arena and build an off-site practice facility to accommodate the new NBA franchise, the Oklahoma City Thunder.

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## rte66man

> IIRC MAPS for Kids included some of the suburbs:  https://www.okc.gov/maps3/mapshistory.html


That's because there are other school districts that cover OKC limits other than OKCPS.  Deer Creek, Putnam City, etc.  It's always irritated me that the suburbs that could use help (Warr Acres, where I live) aren't included; yet most of my sales tax revenue goes to businesses in OKC.  Why can't some portion of that come back to benefit my area?

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## Swake

Looks like all the vision proposals are passing very easily, 60-40 or better with 70% of precincts in.

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## shavethewhales

I'm surprised at the margins, especially on the pork projects. At least we don't have to argue about the stupid dam proposals anymore... now we can argue about how ineffective they turn out to be. 

There's certainly some benefits here, but you know it's going to really stir the pot with all the other funding woes.

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## TU 'cane

> I'm surprised at the margins, especially on the pork projects. At least we don't have to argue about the stupid dam proposals anymore... now we can argue about how ineffective they turn out to be. 
> 
> There's certainly some benefits here, but you know it's going to really stir the pot with all the other funding woes.


I was expecting more of 50/50 on Prop 3, honestly. It was staying at 60/40 for a while.
Of course, the local biologists are concerned about what these dams are going to do the local wildlife who depend on the shallow prairie river that is the Arkansas. Will be interesting to see. It's no doubt the river looks and smells better when there's water, but I think long term these dams will prove futile and end up being a boondoggle. 

As for everything else, great. No more arguing. Just get the stuff done. I'm most excited about the Gilcrease expansion and hope they can get started right away and be done in the next few years. 

Again, here's the full Vision list: https://www.cityoftulsa.org/media/45...ary1-28-16.pdf

And here's the results: Election Results - NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com |

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## Dustin

Wow.  That's a lot of dough!  

Good for Tulsa.

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## Eric

I can't recall where, but I remember reading some things about cities removing low water dams lately. As Tulsa is generally about a decade behind the times, I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen here in the future as well.

I was shocked that this passed the way it did as well. It seemed much more disorganized than prior attempts. The biggest difference on this one was that huge sums of money were thrown directly at large voting blocks (Fire & Police). That always helps.

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## BG918

It would be nice to have the Zink Dam improvements finished around the same time the Gathering Place opens.  That will be a major asset right next to the park, especially with the whitewater flume.

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## shavethewhales

Eric, to be fair, I think the low water dams that you hear about being removed are the older, uglier, death trap low water dams. Supposedly these new ones are designed better, and should be somewhat aesthetically pleasing (or so they want us to believe). I agree that Tulsa is perpetually behind the times, but damming the river is kind of an inevitable improvement. 

This vote capitalized on low voter turnout and by spreading the pork out enough so that lots of interest groups could have a piece. Pretty classic setup. I'm not outraged, but it does leave a poor taste in my mouth.

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## Swake

Here's from the project website on when the dams will happen. The Gathering Place opens next fall, well before the new Zink dam will be complete



> Funding becomes available for Vision Tulsa projects beginning in 2017. The Zink Dam modifications have already had their 404 permit review by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the South Tulsa/Jenks Dam 404 permit has been submitted for review. Permitting and final design of the Zink project can begin as soon as funding is available and while the South Tulsa/Jenks dam is completing the 404 permit process and then moves into final design, which is projected to occur from early 2017 through the end of 2018.
> Construction on Zink Dam would start in early 2018 and be completed in 2020.
> Construction on the South Tulsa/Jenks Dam would begin later in 2020 and be completed in early 2022.


Safety and silt buildup are the main reasons low water dams have been removed in other cities, including Sand Springs. Here's the plan on how to handle these issues:



> Will these low-water dams be safer than the current Zink Dam?
> 
> One of the primary goals of the project is to reduce hazards at the existing Zink Dam and to avoid the creation of hydraulic rollers at the South Tulsa/Jenks dam location. In this reach of the Arkansas River, numerous drownings have been recorded at the existing Zink Dam.
> The proposed dam design involves constructing the downstream face of the dam with a series of steps that disrupt the formation of hazardous hydraulic roller conditions. Furthermore, the gate operational plan will prevent flow over the top of any full-height gate greater than six inches during non-flood release conditions.
> In addition, the design includes installation of signage, warning systems and cabled buoys upstream of the dams to warn the public of potential dangers.
> How will the low-water dams handle silt issues?
> 
> The dam design selected by City of Tulsa engineers and hydrologists utilizes a vulcanized rubber air bladder to raise and lower the steel dam gates to the full down position.
> This modern dam technology is in use in cities around the world, on similar sized dams as well as on much larger dam gates.
> ...


Q&A for All Projects - Vision Tulsa

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## jerrywall

> BMX = Bicycle Motocross. Extreme Bicycle racing. Matt Hoffman, from Edmond is a BMX pioneer. If you have ever seen bikes at a skate park, those are BMX bikes. It's certainly a niche thing, but having a national headquarters for it in OK is pretty awesome.


I also think they're getting an Olympic training center along with this as well.

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## Eric

> Eric, to be fair, I think the low water dams that you hear about being removed are the older, uglier, death trap low water dams. Supposedly these new ones are designed better, and should be somewhat aesthetically pleasing (or so they want us to believe). I agree that Tulsa is perpetually behind the times, but damming the river is kind of an inevitable improvement. 
> 
> This vote capitalized on low voter turnout and by spreading the pork out enough so that lots of interest groups could have a piece. Pretty classic setup. I'm not outraged, but it does leave a poor taste in my mouth.


Something about the fact that there had to be a street maintenance package leads me to believe these dams may be in that kind of shape at some point in the future. I guess I am just pessimistic today. 

That and I just don't like the idea that we are messing with nature. I'm no tree huger, but this to me adds no real value to anything, and to boot it costs a boat load of money, and does not solve a problem. Heck there really isn't even a perceived problem with the river except that it doesn't look the way people think it should...which is not a real problem.

I live in Bartlesville which was founded along the banks of the Caney river. The river used to be a part of every day life around here (fishing, swimming, etc) until damns started going in upstream. Then downtown started flooding every 20 years (in the 100 year flood plane). Fixing one problem always seems to cause another unexpectedly. 

My guess is the "problem" that will be caused by this is that these are supposed to spur economic development, but 10 years from now we will need more taxpayer dollars to actually do so.

Again, me being pessimistic probably.

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## Bellaboo

I think it a crying out loud shame to dam it up. But my view is a bit skewed. I collect indian artifacts and the river is a great source for recovery. I usually drive once or twice a year and spend the weekend at Sand Springs hunting. IMO, it'd be a shame for some of these relics to be lost forever.

Does anyone know the extent of how much surface (and where) will be covered ?

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## Swake

The river already isn't natural. The Keystone dam makes sure of that with the dam usually being mostly closed except during peak power generation hours.  The current irregular flow isn't at all natural. 

The first dam just replaces the current Zink dam at 33rd Street, it won't greatly change the size of Zink Lake. The second will impound water for 3-4 miles from 103rd Street to past 71st Street. 

The Creek Nation's portion of the funding is for an $18 million endowment for upkeep.

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## Eric

> The Creek Nation's portion of the funding is for an $18 million endowment for upkeep.


Where did you find that, because this is the last I saw...

Tulsa, Jenks and Creek leaders clarify dam funding plans | FOX23

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## Swake

> Where did you find that, because this is the last I saw...
> 
> Tulsa, Jenks and Creek leaders clarify dam funding plans | FOX23






> The Muscogee (Creek) Nation notified city officials in a Feb. 15 letter that it would not commit to providing funding at the present time to the river project, which is still pending approval from Jenks and Tulsa voters on April 5. City leaders have asked the Creek Nation for $18 million.
> The money was to be used as a permanent endowment for maintenance of two dams proposed on the Arkansas River  a new Zink Dam and one between south Tulsa and Jenks.


Arkansas River project: Proposed south Tulsa/Jenks dam could be in limbo due to funding questions - Tulsa World: Government

The lack of a firm commitment is due to a new Chief being elected.  The new Chief and the tribal council have said they will take up the funding request now that the vote has passed. 

The Creek Nation has about half a billion dollars invested in developments on the section of the river impacted by the south dam between the Casino, Riverwalk and iFly Golf. The tribe also has a lot of land left to develop on this area of the river. They own the land north of The Riverwalk on the west bank to about 81st and have the land on the east bank south of the Casino to 91st and north of the Casino to about 77th. All of that becomes more valuable with the dam. 

Combine everything the Creek Nation has here on the river with The Oklahoma Aquarium and the Simon outlet mall in Jenks on the west bank and this is going to be a good tourist spot. Jenks just gave the final approval for the TIF for the outlet mall last week.

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## HOT ROD

not to derail, but Maps 4 Kids was an OKC city initiative. OKC spans multiple school districts, so schools in those districts that reside in OKC city limits participated/received funding. Maps 4 kids did not fund suburb schools (like Edmond High, for example) that did not reside within the city of OKC limits. ... 

just wanted to clarify, all OKC MAPS have been city, not metro.

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## Plutonic Panda

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/elect...0c7429c58.html

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## Laramie

> None of the other local municipal tax measures that were part of the April 5 Vision vote are affected. The unaffected measures include three city of Tulsa propositions that are expected to raise about $800 million for public safety, economic development and public transit. Those taxes take effect Jan. 1.


Hopefully, this will only affect a small measure of the Vision 2025 initiative which garnered 64% of the vote.   It's important that Tulsa keeps the same momentum that Oklahoma City has with MAPS.   

Our two largest metropolitan areas need local support for initiatives like MAPS & Vision 2025 to keep up with the current trends to make both cities attractive to business & industry seeking to expand into our state.  Especially at a time when the State has hit a financial shortfall--making deep cuts to the bone.

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## Swake

> Hopefully, this will only affect a small measure of the Vision 2025 initiative which garnered 64% of the vote.   It's important that Tulsa keeps the same momentum that Oklahoma City has with MAPS.   
> 
> Our two largest metropolitan areas need local support for initiatives like MAPS & Vision 2025 to keep up with the current trends to make both cities attractive to business & industry seeking to expand into our state.  Especially at a time when the State has hit a financial shortfall--making deep cuts to the bone.


The county part of the vote was just $75 million out of the total of over $800 million in projects. 

It seems the Tulsa World failed to publish all the needed notices for the county.

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## Laramie

> The county part of the vote was just $75 million out of the total of over $800 million in projects. 
> 
> It seems the Tulsa World failed to publish all the needed notices for the county.


Thanks Swake about the notices.   The $75 million was that a part of the safety portion of the total package?

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## Swake

> Thanks Swake about the notices.   The $75 million was that a part of the safety portion of the total package?


No, it's some stuff at the fairgrounds and street widening for county streets.

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## Swake

Some dates are now being applied to the Vision projects:

The new pedestrian bridge at The Gathering Place will be built in 2018
New Zink Dam at The Gathering Place will be built in 2019
The Convention Center expansion/renovation/conversion of old arena  in 2019
Gilcrease Museum expansion built in 2020
Tulsa Zoo Expansion in 2020
South Tulsa/Jenks dam built around 2024

http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/libr...00852ef67d.pdf

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## TU 'cane

Thanks Swake. I spoke with one of the "internal" people at Gilcrease recently and they said the expansion is still in the very early design/planning stages (the renderings we were given beforehand are, of course, not the final product), but they hope to pick things up soon.

Looking at the PDF you provided, if all this follows the reported timelines, it appears over half of all the Vision projects will be completed by 2022. Not too bad.

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## soonerfan_in_okc

> Some dates are now being applied to the Vision projects:
> 
> The new pedestrian bridge at The Gathering Place will be built in 2018
> New Zink Dam at The Gathering Place will be built in 2019
> The Convention Center expansion/renovation/conversion of old arena  in 2019
> Gilcrease Museum expansion built in 2020
> Tulsa Zoo Expansion in 2020
> South Tulsa/Jenks dam built around 2024
> 
> http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/libr...00852ef67d.pdf





> Thanks Swake. I spoke with one of the "internal" people at Gilcrease recently and they said the expansion is still in the very early design/planning stages (the renderings we were given beforehand are, of course, not the final product), but they hope to pick things up soon.
> 
> Looking at the PDF you provided, if all this follows the reported timelines, it appears over half of all the Vision projects will be completed by 2022. Not too bad.


I assume that the low water dams are still contingent on the Creek's approving their funding?  Or has something changed.

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## BG918

> I assume that the low water dams are still contingent on the Creek's approving their funding?  Or has something changed.


Just the south dam at 103rd St which won't be built for another 5 years at the earliest.  I don't doubt the Creek Nation will financially support the dam they have way too much invested around the river in this area, both on the Tulsa side with their $400 million casino/hotel and on the Jenks side with Riverwalk Crossing and Flying Tee.

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## Swake

> I assume that the low water dams are still contingent on the Creek's approving their funding?  Or has something changed.


The south dam only is contingent, and the funds can be from any outside entity not just the Creek Nation. The tribe does  have something like half a billion dollars invested in the area around the dam so they have a large incentive to contribute.

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## soonerfan_in_okc

> Just the south dam at 103rd St which won't be built for another 5 years at the earliest.  I don't doubt the Creek Nation will financially support the dam they have way too much invested around the river in this area, both on the Tulsa side with their $400 million casino/hotel and on the Jenks side with Riverwalk Crossing and Flying Tee.





> The south dam only is contingent, and the funds can be from any outside entity not just the Creek Nation. The tribe does  have something like half a billion dollars invested in the area around the dam so they have a large incentive to contribute.


Ahh, I see. Thanks for the clarification. I thought that all 3 were contingent on their decision,  not just the 103rd Dam. 

I agree with you all that they will produce the funds, I just wish it had happened already.

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## Swake

> Ahh, I see. Thanks for the clarification. I thought that all 3 were contingent on their decision,  not just the 103rd Dam. 
> 
> I agree with you all that they will produce the funds, I just wish it had happened already.


Just two dams are being built at this time. The replacement Zink dam at 33rd and Riverside and a new dam at 106th and Riverside. The Sand Springs dam was removed from the project list as too expensive with too little benefit.

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## Spartan

Tulsa could probably have funded a streetcar with Vision if they'd combined the funding for the BMX headquarters and various suburban business park incentives.

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## Bellaboo

> Just two dams are being built at this time. The replacement Zink dam at 33rd and Riverside and a new dam at 106th and Riverside. The Sand Springs dam was removed from the project list as too expensive with too little benefit.


Great news. Building this SS dam would have halted the recovery of indian artifact treasures from this area of the river.

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