# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Tulsa & Suburbs >  300 lofts proposed for Downtown Tulsa

## ZYX2

The lofts will be the first phase of Talaas, a massive mixed use development in the East End. Groundbreaking is expected in early 2012, but with Tulsa's history of the East End, I will not believe this until I see framing go up.

Here's the link:http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...7_Anambi501616

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## Snowman

That mixed use development looks like the BOK center?

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## ZYX2

No, for some reason it made my Avatar that big???? I am going to delete it. There are no renderings for this development yet. There should be in the coming months.

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## Spartan

I was wondering how long it would be until we saw another East End proposal. Now we can truly bring in the new year.

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## ZYX2

This is not new, it was proposed nearly two years ago. The TDA initially rejected their proposal, in favor of another project. That project backed out, so these developers proposed again. This time though, they are doing it in phases, in hopes of purchasing more land at a later time. I think this time it is much more likely to happen.

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## Spartan

Wait, what project are you talking about? I thought it was a year ago and the only competing proposal for the exact same land I believe was Land Legacy wanted to do a park. What happened to that? I thought a small company was going to build its HQ on land adjacent to this, but they were not necessarily competing for the exact same land..

Not my city, so I don't know it like the back of my hand, and I'm not privy to development deals before they're announced, but I do pay attention to the news up the pike every now and then..

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## ZYX2

No, the company wanting to put their headquarters there was competing with this project. When originally proposed 1-2 years ago, this project was going to occupy 40 acres and include a streetcar running down 2nd street to the BOK Center. That all still may happen, but this time the developers are doing it in phases.

Hopefully this can help clear some confusion.

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## Spartan

Ok..did the headquarters deal fizzle out? What was the name of that, I thought I saw renderings a while ago actually..

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## ZYX2

The headquarters deal was for the Ross Group. They backed out of this deal because (surprise) they could not work out a price with the TDA. It has been rumored that they will go on another sight downtown.

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## Chautauqua

if that taalas project happens, I will eat my own foot.

To be clear: That project has a snowballs chance in hell of happening.  300 lofts?  Really?  180,000 Sq ft of retail? REALLY?  REALLY?

180,000 sq ft every inch of two city blocks.

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## ZYX2

> if that taalas project happens, I will eat my own foot.
> 
> To be clear: That project has a snowballs chance in hell of happening.  300 lofts?  Really?  180,000 Sq ft of retail? REALLY?  REALLY?
> 
> 180,000 sq ft every inch of two city blocks.


Have we not seen projects very similar to this happen in Oklahoma City? REALLY?

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## Chautauqua

> Have we not seen projects very similar to this happen in Oklahoma City? REALLY?


300 Lofts AND 180,000 feet of retail?  Uh, no.  Really.

Look, there are about 250 new units that are coming on the market within the next 1.5 years in downtown tulsa, 70 of which are the Mayo building.  The grand total of additional retail included in those is (generously) 30,000 sq ft.  The market needs to absorb those units, and I think they will, but to get financing on a 74 million dollar mixed use project is hard these days...and this guy is talking about affordable units, which pushes his margins to the limit, even with New Market tax credits, which can only be used on commercial space, Plus HUD Mortgage insurance, which requires 20% equity in the deal, meaning he has produce 14.8 million dollars _in cash_. 

I am telling you, this doesn't pencil under the best circumstances in Tulsa, Oklahoma (or OKC, for that matter) because the market rate rents and property values prohibit the construction of something with that much value.  Not saying the concept isn't noble or even desirable.  I am saying that even if he had deep pockets, this would be hard.  I am also saying he doesn't have deep pockets.  I am ALSO saying that the number of programs and government incentives he is trying to assemble will take him years, not months, as he implied.

I was in the meeting when he presented this exact same concept the first time.  This dude is off of his rocker.  I give it 6 months, max.

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## Spartan

Yeah, that's what I'm going to go with. I suspect this project might go forward, but I am the eternal optimist about these things, but it WILL be massively scaled down it seems. Something more like the Central Park townhomes across the IDL.

Besides, downtown Tulsa's first big retail (even if it comes in the next 5 years) isn't going to be in the East End/Village. It's going to be in Brady or Blue Dome. Probably Brady at this point.

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## Pete

How many housing units are in downtown Tulsa now and how many more are under construction?

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## Spartan

There's a lot of housing in downtown Tulsa, it's just mostly all in Uptown (which is south of the IDL). Of stuff built in the last 5 years...maybe 300 units? I don't know really, not as much as OKC. But there is a LOT proposed and under construction. I know the Brady Arts District seems like it has more infill projects about to break ground than Deep Deuce, which is saying a _lot_.

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## ZYX2

Just to give an idea on housing units...

Metro at Brady....75                            Status: Under Construction

Enterprise Lofts....77                           Status: Finalizing architecture, financing

GreenArch....63                                  Status: Proposed

119 Downtown....72                            Status: Preselling, model complete

Brady Flats....40                                 Status: Proposed, groundbreaking in fall

Talaas (Phase 1)....300                       Status: Proposed, land acquiring, financing

One Place....55                                   Status: Bidding underway

I know I am forgetting something...I will add it later if I think of it. 

Hotels...

Fairfield....120                                  Status: Finalizing architecture, groundbreaking very soon

Hilton Garden Inn....150                     Status: Bidding underway, part of One Place

aLoft....200                                       Status: Finalizing architecture, renovations beginning in summer, completion in 12-18 months


General infill...

Matthews warehouse                        Status: Under Construction 

KOTV                                              Status: Currently building helicopter pad, hopefully the rest will follow

Brady Park                                       Status: Cleanup of the Brownfield should begin this year

Cain's Museum                                 Status: Fundraising

Pop Culture Museum                         Status: Applying for grant, estimated completion 2014

Likewise I am probably forgetting some smaller ones, but these are the ones that stand out. There are also several new restaurants and a bowling alley opening in Blue Dome and Brady this year.

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## ZYX2

I knew I forgot something...

Robinson Packer Lofts...12

Status: Under construction, completion In July

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## Spartan

And don't forget Sager's project, which will get to count toward construction tallies for at least two decades.

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## ZYX2

> And don't forget Sager's project, which will get to count toward construction tallies for at least two decades.


Ha ha...

Yeah, I purposely left that out.

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## Spartan

Eventually he'll linger for enough rounds of Vision housing funding that he will get finished at some point. Most people who move as slow as he does and have as many problems as he does tend to go bankrupt very quickly...

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## ZYX2

> GreenArch....63 Status: Proposed


Just wanted to update this project...The developers are waiting on paperwork and should break ground in April or May.

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## Chautauqua

Update...

Talaas is now telling people 400 lofts, 180,000 sq ft of retail and ONE MILLION square feet of new offices space.....

Really...I love Tulsa as much as the next guy, but having people float these BS things out there isn't helpful.

GreenArch is 70 units and 10,000 Sq Ft of retail...

Cain's Museum is tabled...going to be combined with POP museum...

Also...three more concepts likely to happen in Brady... Mickey Mantle Museum and Restaurant near the ballpark, more housing funded by GKFF near Cain's, and another major major archival collection belonging to the descendants of one of this nation's most important artists is moving to the Brady...currently housed in midtown NYC...and will be part of the Mathews Building renovation.

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## ZYX2

The more Talaas bumps up their estimates, the less I am believing them...

Also, I didn't know that the Mickey Mantle museum was still being considered. And we snatched something great with that art from NYC. 

For those who don't know, the Matthews Building renovation will also include a new building on half of the parking lot immediately to the south.

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## ZYX2

New renderings for GreenArch:

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index....;boardseen#new

Sorry, can't post individual pictures.

I think they look a lot like LEVEL...

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## ZYX2

Update: 

The old YMCA building should start work in 2-3 years after the new aLoft is complete

The John Hope Franklin Recomciliation center will be starting fundraising in just a few months

There is a small grocery store going into an existing building downtown (Location is undisclosed by developer)

And wait for it....................yep, you guessed it...Sager's 1st street lofts are back. Only this time, they will be small apartments with very affordable rents. (I'll believe this when I see it)

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## ZYX2

Also, there is a grocery store planned for the Detroit Lofts. It may or may not be the same one as stated above. It should be happening before too long...

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