# OKCpedia > Businesses & Employers >  Sonic Corporation

## kelroy55

I wonder if this was his choice or not.

Sonic Corp. President Scott McLain will step down as president | NewsOK.com

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## ljbab728

> I wonder if this was his choice or not.
> 
> Sonic Corp. President Scott McLain will step down as president | NewsOK.com


Why?

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## kelroy55

Because he's still a fairly young man.

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## ljbab728

Well that's certainly a great reason to think he might have been pushed out.  LOL
I've seen more than one report about this with nothing hinting at it being anything but voluntary.

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## SoonerDave

> Because he's still a fairly young man.


No idea. But while we've kinda backed off fast food in general the last couple of years, I will say we'd backed off Sonic a lot even before then. We just got frustrated with cold, stale, undercooked food, greasy, limp, undercooked fries, slow service, and....shall I continue? Worse still is that they just don't act like they give a you-know-what. 

We still go there every once in a great while, as I will partake of an occasional grilled chicken sandwich, but more often than not, it becomes an exercise in frustration. Mind you, I understand that's as much a franchise problem as a "corporate" problem, but if this kind of (non) QC has more than one franchise playing fast and loose with their own standards, eventually it reflects very badly on the corporate side. Sonic has tried to improve its menu, but until they get better, more consistent food and better service, I'm not sure how bright Sonic's future is.

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## ljbab728

I don't think this topic really has anything to do with Sonic's quality of food or service but I still go there just as often as ever and it seems exactly the same as it has been for years.  I see no reason to question Sonic's future.

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## SoonerDave

> I don't think this topic really has anything to do with Sonic's quality of food or service but I still go there just as often as ever and it seems exactly the same as it has been for years.  I see no reason to question Sonic's future.


Hmmm..perhaps I'm just weird, but to me the quality of food at a restaurant chain might be quite germane to the departure of that restaurant's CEO. For us, the decline in Sonic has been precipitous and unmistakable across many of their outlets. They made a strident effort to improve things about three years ago, I think, but those efforts IMHO have faded. I'm glad your experience has been different.

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## ljbab728

Yes it has and I see absolutely no connection.

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## SoonerDave

> Yes it has and I see absolutely no connection.


You don't see how the quality of food and service at a company that exists solely to serve food _might_ be related to the departure of that company's leadership? You see _absolutely no_ connection? C'mon, dude, you can't be that naive. I'm not saying it _is_ in this case, but to state categorically there's _absolutely no connection's_ a bit out there.

Oh, well, who knows. Maybe they caught him eating at Burger King.

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## ljbab728

No, I see no connection and I also see no problem with the quality of food or service.  I was talking about Sonic specifically and you may have been making a general observation about food service companies in general.  I'm hardly naive about anything.  You are connecting dots that are a little too far apart.

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## RadicalModerate

He should have listened to my suggestion from at least 10 or 15 years ago that Sonic should reincarnate the Cheese Frenchees and the Tuna Frenchees that used to be served by King's Fine Foods Drive-Ins back in the day. (or . . . could it be . . . the "new opportunities" mentioned will be a different chain of drive-ins that specialized in them??? =)

Or maybe the shareholders decided that he hadn't acted fast enough to correct the singular blemish to the Sonic name represented by the location at 122nd and Penn . . .

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## SoonerDave

> No, I see no connection and I also see no problem with the quality of food or service.  *I was talking about Sonic specifically and you may have been making a general observation about food service companies in general*.  I'm hardly naive about anything.  You are connecting dots that are a little too far apart.


No, this is a thread about Sonic, so as to end any confusion, I'm making a very specific observation about the abject deterioration of Sonic in general, across multiple restaurants at multiple locations. And I'm brazen enough to infer I"m not the only one making such an observation, as I've seen several local stores offer "Under new ownership" banners, at least indicating issues with one (or more?) franchise owners. Maybe that does indicate some level of response on the part of the corporate entity in response to reports of poor performance, deteriorating food, deteriorating service, and indifferent management over a period of years. 

All that aside, your strident defense makes it fairly clear I've it some personal nerve of yours, and perhaps you know the departed executive and/or someone who owns a franchise, so I apologize if I've caused offense. It's just burgers.

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## RadicalModerate

That was a great post.  Still, I wonder . . . Has *Sonic* REALLY deteriorated that much over the years? (honest question, no snark implied or intended).
Personally, I think their offerings are as good or better than they ever were, but I should mention that I only eat at *Sonic* maybe once every two months (and I tip the carhop).  Besides that, their commercials are some of the best on TV. =)

Please be advised that my observations regarding a non-slide in the quality of *Sonic* overall does not apply to the location at 122nd and Penn.  It was bad when it opened and has only gone downhill from there. (of course, to be fair, I never go to that one but rather the one on Britton Rd or the one on N. May so my opinion in this context may not be completely accurate--as compared to my normal opinion =)

*"It's Just Burgers"* . . .
(classic: should be a motto to live by.  or a bumpersticker.
perhaps, in order to create a taste of ConFusion Cuisine, even a Zen Mantra! =)

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## s00nr1

I'm in agreement with SoonerDave that many of the older Sonic locations have put out food recently that is nowhere near the quality of years past. It really is a crapshoot depending on the location you visit whether or not you're going to get a decent product.

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## RadicalModerate

> I'm in agreement with SoonerDave that many of the older Sonic locations have put out food recently that is nowhere near the quality of years past. It really is a crapshoot depending on the location you visit whether or not you're going to get a decent product.


Hopefully, in terms of basic food prep hygene and protocols, the term crapshoot will remain only metaphorical (or analogilogical or similiarian or whatever) specifically as applied to *Sonic*.  Say! I wonder if there would be a way to work this idea into one of their humorous commercials!  The guys could drive by a Taco Bell . . . a McDonalds . . . a Burger King . . . a Long John Silvers/A&W . . . a Popeye's Chicken . . . a KFC . . . and pull into a Sonic.  Then one of them could say something like: "Fast Food that isn't Sonic is a Crapshoot . . ."  (Igor! Gather a focus group immediately!)

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## SoonerDave

> That was a great post.  Still, I wonder . . . Has *Sonic* REALLY deteriorated that much over the years? (honest question, no snark implied or intended).
> Personally, I think their offerings are as good or better than they ever were, but I should mention that I only eat at *Sonic* maybe once every two months (and I tip the carhop).  Besides that, their commercials are some of the best on TV. =)
> 
> Please be advised that my observations regarding a non-slide in the quality of *Sonic* overall does not apply to the location at 122nd and Penn.  It was bad when it opened and has only gone downhill from there. (of course, to be fair, I never go to that one but rather the one on Britton Rd or the one on N. May so my opinion in this context may not be completely accurate--as compared to my normal opinion =)
> 
> *"It's Just Burgers"* . . .
> (classic: should be a motto to live by.  or a bumpersticker.
> perhaps, in order to create a taste of ConFusion Cuisine, even a Zen Mantra! =)


LOL thanks Rad  :Smile: 

I really do believe Sonic has deteriorated in all honesty. Now, its easy to develop that one opinion over a single data point, and I fully understand one data point does not a conclusion make. But with kids/teenagers that like drinks (esp in the summer) and activities often necessitate quick if less-than-ideal meals, we happen to frequent several Sonics around our area, and we see the problems fairly consistently. 

Simple example: The fries and tater tots _used_ to be great, but now are seemingly _always_ undercooked. Okay, one store at one time, in a rush, they pull the things out of the fire too soon. That happens. But from store to store to store, we observe the _same_ level of "undercookedness." To me, that's a pattern. 

A few years ago, Sonic started using these "puffy" buns that dwarfed the meat, were never toasted, and were sometimes refrigerator cold -- again, at _multiple_ Sonics. A supplier changed, I presume, that affected several places, and the bun was so "poofy" all you could taste in the burger was the bread. All that, coupled with wrong orders, slow service (which I won't go into detail about here) we just decided to go somewhere else. It wasn't more than a few months after that they started a campaign about their "improved food, bigger and better burgers.." As much as I'd LOVE to think that was JUST because of me  :Smile: , I know that a campaign like that had to emerge from their _own_ feedback/research that told them they had a quality problem. And it did, in fact, improve. For a while. But that appears to have been temporary.

Now, as I said, my dietary wisdom has increased greatly over the last 18 months, and I haven't had a decent burger in that span (58 pounds ago!) so my recent experience with Sonic has decreased. But we do go there for things like (some) drinks and grilled chicken sandwiches...but we still finding the same inconsistency, wrong orders, cold food, hit-and-miss, slow service that was their bane before, so I just do what most consumers would do, vote with my feet and my dollars....just go somewhere else if I can.

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## ljbab728

> No, this is a thread about Sonic, so as to end any confusion, I'm making a very specific observation about the abject deterioration of Sonic in general, across multiple restaurants at multiple locations. And I'm brazen enough to infer I"m not the only one making such an observation, as I've seen several local stores offer "Under new ownership" banners, at least indicating issues with one (or more?) franchise owners. Maybe that does indicate some level of response on the part of the corporate entity in response to reports of poor performance, deteriorating food, deteriorating service, and indifferent management over a period of years. 
> 
> All that aside, your strident defense makes it fairly clear I've it some personal nerve of yours, and perhaps you know the departed executive and/or someone who owns a franchise, so I apologize if I've caused offense. It's just burgers.


You've not hit a nerve at all and my only connection with Sonic is as a regular customer since the early 60's.  I'm just commenting as I see things and obviously I see it differently than you do and disagree with your theory without better evidence.

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## ThomPaine

I hate to pile-on, but I've been a loyal Sonic customer for the last 30 years, and I have absolutely stopped buying food there.  I still buy drinks, but I've had my last burger, rings, or fries there.  Their hot dog options were pretty good there for awhile, but the last four or five times (four different locations in the metro), their food has been awful.  In all honestly, their rings have gone down hill to the point of being inedible.  

i'm still in on their great selection of drinks, with their Sonic cups filled with Sonic ice, but no more food for me as there are plenty of better options.

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## ljbab728

A question I would have, because I really don't know, is does anyone know how Sonic's bottom line has changed since the departing president has been there?  I would think that would be much more important to them if they were considering making a change at the top than individuals complaining about food or service.

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## RadicalModerate

Here is a sample of one facet of the diamond of "bottom line" corporate priorties . . .

Lesson Two is to make sure that the contents of the bag are fit to eat.
(i, personally, have no complaints . . . except regarding the location at 122nd and Penn. And the fact there are neither Cheese or Tuna Frenchees on the ever-changing menu board)

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## Pete

Interesting strategy by Sonic.

Believe it or not, there are still only a handful of Sonics in Southern California and the ones that are open seem to do a huge business.  They are all franchises out here but the closest one to me is over an hour a way.

*************

SONIC Drive-In Expands Franchise Development in Small Town, USA

As SONIC (NASDAQ: SONC) continues franchise development across the country, the company has its sights set on a particular market segment thats showing major demand: small towns throughout the Central United States. In recent months, SONIC has opened drive-ins in Shattuck, Okla., and Valliant, Okla., and signed 13 franchise development commitments in other small towns, including: Iowa, La.; Cherokee, Okla.; Medford, Okla.; Verdigris, Okla.; Murfreesboro, Tenn.; Boyd, Texas; Cotulla, Texas; DeQuincy, La.; Dilley, Texas; Nixon, Texas; Shallowater, Texas; Stockdale, Texas; and Three Rivers, Texas.

New SONIC Drive-In development continues to be an important priority for the company, and our strategy is creating strong momentum, said Cliff Hudson, chairman, chief executive officer and president of Sonic Corp. In addition to bringing SONIC to new major markets, weve identified an opportunity to bring SONIC to small towns, particularly in our core markets in the heart of the country. The redesign of our prototype building offers a number of benefits, including reduced building costs and land requirements, making it easier for these local owner-operators to open a drive-in and see a greater return on their investment. In addition, our increase in funding for national advertising creates increased consumer demand and positions our franchisees for successful new drive-in openings.

Many of these small town economies are thriving due to local energy plays, and civic leaders, residents and workers are craving new restaurant options. Weve met a number of entrepreneurs who know their local communities, see the opportunity and recognize that SONIC is the perfect franchise to seize it, said Bob Franke, senior vice president of franchise sales and international development for Sonic Corp. Were in a unique position to meet their needs, and were flexible in working with our franchise partners. For example, weve worked with them to reduce the building footprint, reduce the number of drive-in stalls and add a drive-thru, without sacrificing sales capacity and the SONIC experience our customers expect and love.

SONIC is currently discussing opportunities with prospective owner-operators in small towns across the country, and many franchise opportunities are still available. Individuals interested in pursuing a SONIC Franchise are encouraged to visit sonicdrivein.com/franchise for more information.

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## Rover

I used to drive by the Sonic in Ontario, CA and it was always PACKED.  Frankly, there were more cars waiting there than the nearest In-N-Out.  Never understood why they don't expand in Cal.

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## Plutonic Panda

I don't want to derail this thread, but I ate at an In-N-Out and it sucked.

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## dmoor82

I remember seeing Sonic food and a cup on Entourage,and another tv show I can't remember! I bet getting a Sonic in an area that doesn't have one would kind of be like us getting an In N Out burger!

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## Pete

Yeah, for those guys on Entourage to make a Sonic run, they would have to drive over an hour to go to Palmdale or Anaheim.  The few that are around here are in out-lying areas.

I looked into the franchise rights for L.A. but they had already been committed.  Wish whoever bought them would get going!


I miss their drinks.

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## Praedura

> Yeah, for those guys on Entourage to make a Sonic run, they would have to drive over an hour to go to Palmdale or Anaheim.  The few that are around here are in out-lying areas.
> 
> I looked into the franchise rights for L.A. but they had already been committed.  Wish whoever bought them would get going!
> 
> 
> I miss their drinks.


Are there any Braums in California? That's what I would really miss if I ever moved out of state.

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## Pete

No, Braums will only build a certain distance from their main dairies.

So, they are only in OK, TX, KS, and a couple in AR and MO.


Miss Braums more than Sonic!

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## OKCTalker

At least one national fast feeder has red-lined California due to the time & expense necessary to open a restaurant.

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## bradh

Sort of related, but does anyone know the rhyme and reason behind where Sonic decides to put sand volleyball courts on property of their establishments?  The one by my ex-girlfriend's house in Corpus Christi was always packed with HS and college kids playing.

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## RadicalModerate

The opened a Sonic in Cambridge, Minnesota a while back.  I think it only stayed open a year or two then closed.  I find that to be astounding.

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## bradh

Minnesotans are weird, look who they elect for politicians  :Smile:

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## Jim Kyle

> No, Braums will only build a certain distance from their main dairies.


I believe it's 300 miles by road from Tuttle. I've found them as far south as Waco, but no farther...

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## bluedogok

> Sort of related, but does anyone know the rhyme and reason behind where Sonic decides to put sand volleyball courts on property of their establishments?  The one by my ex-girlfriend's house in Corpus Christi was always packed with HS and college kids playing.


That would probably be the local franchise owners decision.

I remember some guys that I was working with out of Sacramento in 2004, they were talking about this great new burger place in Modesto that we were going to stop at when we finished our survey there....we pulled into a Sonic, and I laughed. I told them that in OKC they are on every other corner like a Subway and my sister worked at one. We rarely went to one in Austin and only a few times here in Denver, usually for cherry limeades.

As far as Sonic and small towns, most of them in Texas that have a decent size (more than a few thousand) have three places, a Sonic, a DQ and a Pizza Hut if they have anything. We do wish the DQ's up here had the Texas food menu but then Texas DQ is a quasi-separate entity from the DQ mothership.




> I believe it's 300 miles by road from Tuttle. I've found them as far south as Waco, but no farther...


They want their drivers to be able to round trip to/from Tuttle in one day. Hillsboro is the furthest south, it was a regular stop to stock up on trips north from Austin. There have been rumors of them opening up in Waco. The others along the south edge of DFW that I know of would be Mineral Wells, Corsicana and Athens. We stopped at one in Amarillo (none in Lubbock) last weekend on the way back to Denver, The closest to us are Amarillo/Dumas and Salina, Kansas. I wish they would expand their reach but I can understand why they don't. I wish we had Whataburger and Taco Bueno up here, the closest Whataburger is Amarillo or Albuquerque, Bueno is in Amarillo.

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## Jim Kyle

Do they still have any Cousin Jack's places in Denver? They were everywhere, like Sonic in OKC, when I last spent a few days in the mile-high city. Their specialty was Cornish Pastys -- great eating!

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## bluedogok

I haven't seen that name around.

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## kevinpate

> ...  The closest [Braum's] to us are Amarillo/Dumas and Salina, Kansas. ...


Suddenly caught myself on memory lane. Late in 1982  I was involved in seismic work and was freezing my tushie off as a Ding Dong Daddy in Dumas.  God love the Key Motel kitchenettes and all the humor that odd little place provided, and Mr. Gatti's too.

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## Jim Kyle

Well, it's been almost 40 years ago that I was there, so it's not surprising that a fast-food chain had bitten the dust...

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## bradh

Wishing for a Bueno?  Don't hear that often.

I wish we had more Taco Cabana's up here.  Love that place.

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## Bellaboo

> The opened a Sonic in Cambridge, Minnesota a while back.  I think it only stayed open a year or two then closed.  I find that to be astounding.


Too cold up there for outside eating.

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## bluedogok

> Wishing for a Bueno?  Don't hear that often.
> 
> I wish we had more Taco Cabana's up here.  Love that place.


We had one open up in our part of South Austin, being away from it for quite a few years I grew to miss it. There just isn't the same type of place up here, it was always good for what it is. I just think of Taco Cabana as a different type of fast food, more fast casual. Not Bueno/Bell but a step up, I rarely went there even before Torchy's Tacos opened up a few blocks from TC, after Torchy's opened TC was an afterthought.

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## sooner88

I've had friends and family who live in the New York area that came to visit, and one of the first places they wanted to visit was Sonic. It was one of those places (like In-N-Out is to us) that gets hyped up and talked about a lot by transplants to those areas... The drinks are good, but don't really care for most of the food.

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## SoonerDave

I like Sonic, but I kinda wish Sonic would pay at least part of its attention to improving the service at its local drive-ins. We only go for the occasional drink these days, but we just gave up on improperly filled food orders, delays, mistakes, chronically undercooked tots/fries (yuck) etc. etc. Some of their newer food offerings aren't bad, but when it just takes too long, or gets filled wrong, you kinda just throw up your hands eventually...YMMV, of course...

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## venture

> Too cold up there for outside eating.


People up north don't eat Sonic outside. Every one I've seen the car hop parking area will be empty, but the drive thru will have a long line. They just don't know any better.

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## Bunty

> I don't want to derail this thread, but I ate at an In-N-Out and it sucked.


Big Deal.  Name any fast food chain.  Someone is always going to insist it sucks, such as Jack-in-the-Box for another example.

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## Bunty

> I don't want to derail this thread, but I ate at an In-N-Out and it sucked.


 And to get back in thread topic--Sonic, too.

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## Bunty

> I like Sonic, but I kinda wish Sonic would pay at least part of its attention to improving the service at its local drive-ins. We only go for the occasional drink these days, but we just gave up on improperly filled food orders, delays, mistakes, chronically undercooked tots/fries (yuck) etc. etc. Some of their newer food offerings aren't bad, but when it just takes too long, or gets filled wrong, you kinda just throw up your hands eventually...YMMV, of course...


Some of those things  happen with me, but not too often.  

For the summer, I love their half priced shakes after 8pm and now in many flavors.

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## Plutonic Panda

> Big Deal.  Name any fast food chain.  Someone is always going to insist it sucks, such as Jack-in-the-Box for another example.


im not trying to say its a big deal and it is my opinion. Of course, as with anything, there is going to people who will dislike it. I just wanted to throw in mt two cents.

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## Plutonic Panda

> And to get back in thread topic--Sonic, too.


sonic, I momism mot great or anything like that .i mainly eat three for their peanut butter shake, limeades, and I do like their new spicy popcorn chicken

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## traxx

I would assume Braum's limit on how far out they'll put a restaurant has more to do with quality control than anything since they are a vertically integrated company and freshness is a big concern for them. I just can't understand why they can't get their restaurants figured out. They need to be cleaner and more efficient.

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## Pete

Great article on Sonic:

As McDonald's Struggles, Retro Burger Chain Sonic Soars - DailyFinance

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## dankrutka

^^^^

"McDonald's has been on a health kick lately. It's been promoting its grilled chicken salads and recently added breakfast sandwiches made with egg whites. Sonic, on the other hand, is crediting no small part of the success of its most recent quarter to its milkshakes and new Cheesecake Bites. Consumers may talk about eating healthier, but they do something else when they're eating out. We're seeing this in the chains that continue to do well. Chipotle Mexican Grill's (CMG) chunky burritos aren't healthy. Cheesecake Factory (CAKE) throws portion control to the wind with entrees that could feed entire families.

Sonic, by the same token, is merrily rolling along, blending up peanut-butter-and-bacon shakes. (Yes, that's a thing.)"

That's a little depressing to read. I am always looking for healthier, low calorie options at fast food restaurants when I'm on the run and Sonic has few offerings. I guess I'm in the minority because the only thing I'll order at McDonald's are a strawberry/banana smoothie and the egg white delight breakfast sandwich.

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## ljbab728

I'm not surprised about the comments about McDonald's.  I don't go there often but, when I do, it's to buy their traditional offerings like a Big Mac, not the new frufru offerings.

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## MWCGuy

McDonald's has proven they will sell what the people will buy. Granted they keep their junk food staples but, they are working hard to provide something for everyone. You can eat their and eat healthy if you really want to. 

Subway is just as bad as McDonald's for the calories, fat content and carbs. The sandwhich is only healthy if you eat wheat/or whole grain bread, with veggies, lean meat, no cheese and no dressing. I don't very many people that can eat that way except your health food junkies. The problem with fattening foods is that our portions are way too big. You should never eat as much as we eat these days. Years ago a six inch sub or a single patty burger would fill somebody up. Now people are not full unless they eat a 12 inch sub and have two three patties on the burger.

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## ljbab728

> McDonald's has proven they will sell what the people will buy. Granted they keep their junk food staples but, they are working hard to provide something for everyone. You can eat their and eat healthy if you really want to. 
> 
> Subway is just as bad as McDonald's for the calories, fat content and carbs. The sandwhich is only healthy if you eat wheat/or whole grain bread, with veggies, lean meat, no cheese and no dressing. I don't very many people that can eat that way except your health food junkies. The problem with fattening foods is that our portions are way too big. You should never eat as much as we eat these days. Years ago a six inch sub or a single patty burger would fill somebody up. Now people are not full unless they eat a 12 inch sub and have two three patties on the burger.


People can do the same thing eating at home.  It's a choice and nothing more.  You can't force people to eat a certain way.

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## bombermwc

Not to be a downer here, but fast food eateries are there to make money. They're going to push what people buy. So if we're getting fat off of it, it's because we chose to buy it. Nobody forces anybody else to buy a Big Mac or to put 4 kinds of meat on their Subway sub. Take personal responsibility for the actions folks. If you don't want to get fat from it....shock, don't eat it! Every home has this thing in the kitchen that converts the stuff in your fridge to a meal....it's called a stove. Use it.

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## OKVision4U

> I would assume Braum's limit on how far out they'll put a restaurant has more to do with quality control than anything since they are a vertically integrated company and freshness is a big concern for them. I just can't understand why they can't get their restaurants figured out. They need to be cleaner and more efficient.


Braums is beyond conservative, they are a cheap organization.  Its one of the nastiest places to eat.

Why doesn't Braums build a new corporate HQ in Bricktown?   ... That would be a nice start to (re-investing) in your company and bringing your "brand" to the front again.

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## dankrutka

> Not to be a downer here, but fast food eateries are there to make money. They're going to push what people buy. So if we're getting fat off of it, it's because we chose to buy it. Nobody forces anybody else to buy a Big Mac or to put 4 kinds of meat on their Subway sub. Take personal responsibility for the actions folks. If you don't want to get fat from it....shock, don't eat it! Every home has this thing in the kitchen that converts the stuff in your fridge to a meal....it's called a stove. Use it.


I totally agree, but... what do you do when people show the inability to make smart health decisions? We have an epidemic in this country that is straining our health system because people are unable to make smart choices for them and their children (which is mindboggling to me) and it's affecting the entire country. Even though I generally eat healthy, the poor decisions of others affect me indirectly because of rising medical costs, etc. 

I think the biggest problem is that most people do not know, or think about, what they're eating. They lack consciousness. They're not conscious that if they eat 1,200 calories at lunch, they probably need to run 3-5 miles to work the extra calories off. What would happen if there was a "sin tax" on unhealthy food? Maybe just a penny (no the dollar) tax, but these unhealthy items would be clearly marked, thus forcing people to at least consider what they're putting in their bodies. Even just requiring restaurants to list calories with food could at least help to raise consciousness and assist people in making better decisions. Anyway, I know the "sin tax" probably won't happen, but isn't unhealthy eating as destructive as smoking (which is taxed) for many people? I'm just thinking out loud so please don't make this into a huge partisan slugfest.

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## dmoor82

> Braums is beyond conservative, they are a cheap organization.  Its one of the nastiest places to eat.
> 
> Why doesn't Braums build a new corporate HQ in Bricktown?   ... That would be a nice start to (re-investing) in your company and bringing your "brand" to the front again.


1) that's your opinion 2) Sonic already has built a new(ish) corporate hq in Brick town off of Reno Avenue.

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## bombermwc

dankrutha - I can totally appreciate that stance on the whole subject. On one hand I agree that if you tax it, it would force people to think about it. On the other hand, those of us that make good choices then also pay to have a soda. Is that terrible? Probably not, especially since I'm not going to have one often. But the more difficult side of that is the good ole' choice battle. Here in the U.S., if you choose to eat terribly and become a 400 tub-o-lard, that's your right. Unfortunately, the way the medical world is designed in the U.S., that also means we all pay for those poor choices. 

What do you think about this to help with the choice incentivation? Go ahead with the use tax you mentioned (if it's >x calories for that one item)...then take it to a new level. Make the tax scale up so for every X calories over the limit, add the tax again. And if it's over other thresholds, double it, and so on. So maybe 25 cents per 50 calories up to 100, then 50 cents....remember this is per item, not for the meal. That way when you order a la carte, you still get it. Now here's the new whopper (forgive the pun) of a change.

Have the insurance companies start charging more in premiums for BMI (or some other index) over a healthy amount. AND give a premium reduction for those paying for a gym membership or can otherwise prove they are exercising.

Just some ramblings.

dmoore - I agree that Braum's is pretty crappy on the corporate side, but I actually like their burgers very much. I don't think they have the corporate staff to need a downtown location though. Their offices are pretty small in comparison to the rest of the facility up on I-35 (warehouse, store, etc). I have a friend that worked for them in the corporate office for a short time....it was not a pleasant experience either.

----------


## OKVision4U

> 1) that's your opinion 2) Sonic already has built a new(ish) corporate hq in Brick town off of Reno Avenue.


It is not an opinion, Braums is incredibly conservative.  So much so, they miss opportunities in the market place.

Also, was referring to Braums moving their HQ to Bricktown, it would help their brands' positioning in this region.  Sometimes we forget about Braum's and thats their fault. (marketing)

----------


## SoonerDave

> I totally agree, but... what do you do when people show the inability to make smart health decisions? We have an epidemic in this country that is straining our health system because people are unable to make smart choices for them and their children (which is mindboggling to me) and it's affecting the entire country. Even though I generally eat healthy, the poor decisions of others affect me indirectly because of rising medical costs, etc. 
> 
> I think the biggest problem is that most people do not know, or think about, what they're eating. They lack consciousness. They're not conscious that if they eat 1,200 calories at lunch, they probably need to run 3-5 miles to work the extra calories off. *What would happen if there was a "sin tax" on unhealthy food?* Maybe just a penny (no the dollar) tax, but these unhealthy items would be clearly marked, thus forcing people to at least consider what they're putting in their bodies. Even just requiring restaurants to list calories with food could at least help to raise consciousness and assist people in making better decisions. Anyway, I know the "sin tax" probably won't happen, but isn't unhealthy eating as destructive as smoking (which is taxed) for many people? I'm just thinking out loud so please don't make this into a huge partisan slugfest.


With all due respect, dan, we _do not need_  a _federal or state food police_ to start declaring "food X or food Y" to be "unhealthy," which is a fallacious notion on its face. The _choice_ is the bad one, but whether that choice is bad or good for any one person is, in fact, dependent upon that person, not the responsibility of the government. If I have one soda a month, but run two miles a day, that soda isn't such a big deal. If I have five sodas a day, weigh 300 lbs, then that soda is more problematic - but not as problematic _as the person drinking it_. And we've already seen self-proclaimed health nazis like Bloomberg try stunts like this, although his steps were even more draconian - government prohibition of certain food sales - which was shot down. 

And I say that as someone who's done (and continues to do) the work to eat better, having dropped a little over 70 lbs in the last couple of years. It isn't easy, and there are some foods I eat less of now than I used to, but I also understand that the notion of "unhealthy" food is just so much nonsense in an homage to the whole mantra of the "villain food theology" that has just become the defacto health gospel in the last five years. It is about the _people who make the choices to eat, not the food they eat._ And the folks who think they're doing something startlingly "healthy" by eating the "egg white mcmuffin" at McD's are arguably an archetype of the concept.

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## SoonerDave

> It is not an opinion, Braums is incredibly conservative.  So much so, they miss opportunities in the market place.
> 
> Also, was referring to Braums moving their HQ to Bricktown, it would help their brands' positioning in this region.  Sometimes we forget about Braum's and thats their fault. (marketing)


I've often wondered why Braum's is so lacking and inconsistent in the management of its stores. You have newer stores that are very nice, fresh concepts, etc, that are well maintained, but some of them (not very far apart, either) look like a mess. The primary reason we hit Braum's is for the milk, and the occasional ice cream treat in the summer, but beyond that...not so much. 

Don't have any insight as to their corporate organization, so can't really comment on that either way.

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## shawnw

Probably a strange request, but I wish they'd try doing standalone Fresh Markets... as a market experiment to see how it does...

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## OKVision4U

> It is not an opinion, Braums is incredibly conservative.  So much so, they miss opportunities in the market place.
> 
> Also, was referring to Braums moving their HQ to Bricktown, it would help their brands' positioning in this region.  Sometimes we forget about Braum's and thats their fault. (marketing)


One major area that Braums must address is the steady streams of competition ( Freddies / Steak & Shake , etc ) that are now here in OKC metro.  Braums has a great product that doesn't reach an audience.  If they don't (double down) on a significant new branding strategy, they will be Out of Business in 10 years.

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## Dustin

> they will be Out of Business in 10 years.


I don't see this ever happening to be honest.  Braums is an Oklahoma staple.  There would be riots in the streets if people couldn't get their Braums milk and ice cream.

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## Easy180

> I don't see this ever happening to be honest.  Braums is an Oklahoma staple.  There would be riots in the streets if people couldn't get their Braums milk and ice cream.


Yep. People (including our family) will drive past 5 grocery stores to Braum's for milk. They make a ton of money off dairy and their little convenience store setup

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## Jake

I agree. Me and my family enjoy Braum's milk a lot. They could get by just by their tiny stores.

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## dmoor82

> It is not an opinion, Braums is incredibly conservative.  So much so, they miss opportunities in the market place.
> 
> Also, was referring to Braums moving their HQ to Bricktown, it would help their brands' positioning in this region.  Sometimes we forget about Braum's and thats their fault. (marketing)


Ok, point taken.

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## PhiAlpha

> I've often wondered why Braum's is so lacking and inconsistent in the management of its stores. You have newer stores that are very nice, fresh concepts, etc, that are well maintained, but some of them (not very far apart, either) look like a mess. The primary reason we hit Braum's is for the milk, and the occasional ice cream treat in the summer, but beyond that...not so much. 
> 
> Don't have any insight as to their corporate organization, so can't really comment on that either way.


I had friends in high school that worked at one of their stores in Edmond and echoed the management issues. It's not just the management of their stores either. My company had a few oil and gas leases on their farm properties that I had to settle surface damages and other issues on. Their farm properties manager wasn't exactly on the ball with things. He was difficult to deal do to either a lack of competentence and/or knowledge of his properties. Hopefully they will figure their stuff out, despite the issues I still enjoy Braums products.

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## dankrutka

You know, bombermwc (and SoonerDave), I could see incentives working better than disincentives... So, maybe health insurance benefits (whatever would be most appropriate) for those who choose to eat healthy would be better than any taxes. Essentially, preventative care, which is part of many health systems worldwide. Now, how you you keep track of this is beyond me...

I am fully supportive of requiring all food providers to clearly label calories for any item clearly. Consumers don't have time to look up nutritional information every time they go through a drive thru, but it's easy for restaurants to do so.

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## OKVision4U

> Yep. People (including our family) will drive past 5 grocery stores to Braum's for milk. They make a ton of money off dairy and their little convenience store setup


Easy180, you are 100% correct.  This is the example ( they have a great product , MILK ) and many devoted customers know this.  They are missing so many more customers now, than they did 10 years ago w/ new competition in the market.  They are still using the same commercial from 1984.   They are so slow to the consumers position, they miss them.  Now, they are losing market-share, when before they weren't.

We all love their milk, but they may not be in business to sell it.

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## SoonerDave

> You know, bombermwc (and SoonerDave), I could see incentives working better than disincentives... So, maybe health insurance benefits (whatever would be most appropriate) for those who choose to eat healthy would be better than any taxes. Essentially, preventative care, which is part of many health systems worldwide. *Now, how you you keep track of this is beyond me...*
> 
> I am fully supportive of requiring all food providers to clearly label calories for any item clearly. Consumers don't have time to look up nutritional information every time they go through a drive thru, but it's easy for restaurants to do so.


Exactly right. The problem there is that for prevention, you must create an entirely new kind of structure for pre-emptive enforcement, including things like mandating testing for expensive diseases du jour, or mandating certain drugs to "prevent" various conditions, and that's when you subtract the individual from their personal choices. A particular war I've had to fight with my GP is the use of statins; she's been trying to get me on them for years because my cholesterol used to be high (when I dropped 70 lbs, so did my cholesterol), and I simply refuse to take them (and I was bolstered by the fact that a more recent study showed there's no statistical benefit in statins for an individual with no prior history of CVD, but that's another thread). The point is that *I* get to make that choice, _not_ the doctor, _not_ the insurance company, and _certainly_  not a theoretical "pre-emptive" government (?) health enforcement agency. What if a generation ago a "helpful" pre-emptive agency "mandated" that pregnant mothers take thalydomide at the risk of losing coverage?

At some point, the thing we all have to realize is that we live in an imperfect human community, and we all have to live to a degree with the good and bad choices of others. We could extend the notion of "their bad choices affect me adversely" argument all the way to the voting booth. We cannot optimize the process of self-government into one consisting exclusively of what someone _else_ thinks is in _my_ best interests.

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## Dennis Heaton

Since y'all brought it up (sort of)...how many Sonic Franchisees in OKC are from East Pakistan (is this the Bangladesh Mafia expanding into Fast-Food)?

CJ-2008-1993

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## dankrutka

Aren't there already tons of laws where someone else mandates what's in the best interest of the individual? To name one, seat belts.

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## traxx

> Braums is beyond conservative, they are a cheap organization.  Its one of the nastiest places to eat.
> 
> Why doesn't Braums build a new corporate HQ in Bricktown?   ... That would be a nice start to (re-investing) in your company and bringing your "brand" to the front again.


Braum's is a family company. Problem is, they run it like the small company it started out as but they need to run it like a business. They need to have priorities and expectations for their stores and employees. Cleanliness and speed of service being the top two. They also need to update their marketing and commercials. They're stuck in the 1980s and look amateur and local. Taco Mayo used to have this problem but over the last 10-15 years their advertising has improved and looks professional. 

I would assume that Braum's wouldn't want to move their corporate HQ to Bricktown because the corporate types would want to be near the actual operations and be able to walk out the door and be in the middle of the operations.

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## cagoklahoma

Are Braum’s commercials old? Yes. Are Braum’s color scheme's outdated? Yes. Is Braum’s less likely to contribute much money to community initiatives when compared to the competition? Yes. Although, the most important questions are…Is Braum’s making a profit for its owners? Yes, absolutely. Is Braum’s keeping its stores open? Yes. Does Braum’s employee a lot of people? Yes. I don’t understand why they “need” to change what’s working just because it is old. I see more restaurants lose business when they “change” what has been working for them, because they lose their identity. They know who they are, and they know who they aren’t. I appreciate that, and I think a bunch of other people do too, and that’s probably why there’s almost always a line in their stores (well, and the service is pretty slow, but so is Soinc.) For me, the Braum’s old egg nog commercial is almost as synonymous with Christmas in OKC as the B.C. Clark jingle. 

Just a thought.

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## OKVision4U

The one thing that made them a success, is now a stumbling block.  Yes, they still use that same commercial from 1984 ( it would be ok, if they were trying to have an "ole time" feel, but they are using it because they don't want to spend a single dollar).  

Once upper management quits / stops listening, then new ideas cease to come forward & all you end up w/ is the (YES) group.  Stagnant, then OB.

If they had a new HQ in Bricktown w/ a totally new campaign, they could be No. 1.  ...great product no one knows about.

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## Jersey Boss

> Since y'all brought it up (sort of)...how many Sonic Franchisees in OKC are from East Pakistan (is this the Bangladesh Mafia expanding into Fast-Food)?
> 
> CJ-2008-1993


I would be surprised if this kind of information is sought or recorded by the entity that grants franchise rights.

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## Jersey Boss

> Are Braum’s commercials old? Yes. Are Braum’s color scheme's outdated? Yes. Is Braum’s less likely to contribute much money to community initiatives when compared to the competition? Yes. Although, the most important questions are…Is Braum’s making a profit for its owners? Yes, absolutely. Is Braum’s keeping its stores open? Yes. Does Braum’s employee a lot of people? Yes. I don’t understand why they “need” to change what’s working just because it is old. I see more restaurants lose business when they “change” what has been working for them, because they lose their identity. They know who they are, and they know who they aren’t. I appreciate that, and I think a bunch of other people do too, and that’s probably why there’s almost always a line in their stores (well, and the service is pretty slow, but so is Soinc.) For me, the Braum’s old egg nog commercial is almost as synonymous with Christmas in OKC as the B.C. Clark jingle. 
> 
> Just a thought.


The folks that ran Montgomery Wards said the same thing.

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## OKVision4U

> Are Braum’s commercials old? Yes. Are Braum’s color scheme's outdated? Yes. Is Braum’s less likely to contribute much money to community initiatives when compared to the competition? Yes. Although, the most important questions are…Is Braum’s making a profit for its owners? Yes, absolutely. Is Braum’s keeping its stores open? Yes. Does Braum’s employee a lot of people? Yes. I don’t understand why they “need” to change what’s working just because it is old. I see more restaurants lose business when they “change” what has been working for them, because they lose their identity. They know who they are, and they know who they aren’t. I appreciate that, and I think a bunch of other people do too, and that’s probably why there’s almost always a line in their stores (well, and the service is pretty slow, but so is Soinc.) For me, the Braum’s old egg nog commercial is almost as synonymous with Christmas in OKC as the B.C. Clark jingle. 
> 
> Just a thought.


I want them to stay in business.  But now, they have (5X's) the competition.  Freddies / Steak & Shake / Sonic ( shakes / ice cream products ) , and with better service.  The line you see at Braum's is because the service is ( well below average ).   In the 80's / 90's, they could thrive with that, but now they have to compete.

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## cagoklahoma

I agree to an extent, that it’s important be able to adapt and evolve with the industry which is particularly necessary for the technology industries. However, for food service, it’s not as important, and I don’t think it’s fair to compare Braum’s to Montgomery Wards. MW’s demise was not too terribly long after Wal-Mart began building supercenters everywhere, I don’t have any proof (which is rarely necessary on OKC Talk) the two related, but it seems logical to think it is possible. We also need to consider “what do they want to be?” Maybe they are happy where they are? Maybe they want to keep their prices as low as possible? From a consumer perspective, I’d rather have an old commercial with a $5 tub of ice cream, than new commercials with $6 tub of ice cream. All this to say, I don’t eat Braum’s too often but when we stop in for a shake or banana split or gallon of milk, I’ve never thought to myself “man, this place is dead.”

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## Jersey Boss

> I agree to an extent, that it’s important be able to adapt and evolve with the industry which is particularly necessary for the technology industries. However, for food service, it’s not as important, and I don’t think it’s fair to compare Braum’s to Montgomery Wards. MW’s demise was not too terribly long after Wal-Mart began building supercenters everywhere, I don’t have any proof (which is rarely necessary on OKC Talk) the two related, but it seems logical to think it is possible. We also need to consider “what do they want to be?” Maybe they are happy where they are? Maybe they want to keep their prices as low as possible? From a consumer perspective, I’d rather have an old commercial with a $5 tub of ice cream, than new commercials with $6 tub of ice cream. All this to say, I don’t eat Braum’s too often but when we stop in for a shake or banana split or gallon of milk, I’ve never thought to myself “man, this place is dead.”


I don't think MW and Wal Mart serve the same customer needs. While MW was considered a Dept. Store, don't know of many who put that moniker on Wal Mart, Super Center or not.

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## cagoklahoma

That depends on what you consider to be their competition. Freddies also has terrible service, and the food isn’t any better. Steak and Shake is a little better than Freddies. Sonic, well my wife thought I was crazy when she said she wanted a banana spilt and I pulled into a Sonic. Also, something else to consider is the Braum’s makes almost/if not all of their products in house. You won’t see a Ben E. Keith distribution truck outside a Braum’s. They have no middle man, so their margins are higher. They have the infrastructure in place the others do not, which is a real competitive advantage. I’m not saying Freddies, S&S, or Sonic are not good establishments, but their products are not superior to something you would find at Braum’s. They all employ ticked off teenagers, who move at a snail’s pace and want to be there, so service is going to be a wash. Will they be around for the next 100 years? Probably not, but not because of their commercials, or color schemes. *I do not currently, nor have I ever worked at Braum’s*

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## tomokc

I won't go to Braum's for anything except ice cream/milk shakes, and only from the drive through. The stores are dirty, the employees indifferent (and underpaid), and I can find superior products anywhere else at comparable prices. Except for the ice cream & milk shakes. But I won't go out of my way for them, and I won't go inside. 

From a pure profit standpoint I wonder if Braum's wouldn't be better off closing the stores and either selling the ice cream in grocery stores, or licensing them through another channel. Closing the stores eliminates all of the management, HR, overhead, capital requirements and ancillary things required of a huge business operating in hundreds of retail locations. And for what ROI? They probably swap dollars on the retail side (they certainly do on groceries), competition is fierce, and their only category killer is ice cream.

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## Mel

Their orange juice is pretty killer with vodka.

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## mugofbeer

Monkey Wards was Sears without Kenmore and Craftsman

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## MWCGuy

Montgomery Ward died because GE Capital bought them out and they were absolutely clueless when it came to the world of retail. They turned around and shut them down just wash their hands of the mess they created. It would be like Chase buying out Best Buy. Chase is in the banking business not the retail electronics business. Had GE just let the company operate, I honestly think they would still be around today. There is a market for department stores that are in between discount retail and mall department store. Montgomery Ward filled that void and did it well. If you don't believe me just look at Kohl's. JCPenney would be doing well had they not abandoned there old business model and left so many customers out in the cold in the name of being hip and trendy.

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## shawnw

Wards also preceded Sears.

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## Dubya61

Another interesting thing that makes Braums an easier thing to make profit with:  beef -- their own cattle.
I'll bet they don't buy a single cow!

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## Jersey Boss

I think JCP was losing their keister before they changed their business model and that was what prompted the change. I don't know what they need to do to survive, if they even can. Sears as well looks to be on the  escalator to irrelevance.

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## sgt. pepper

I thought this thread was about Sonic, boy was I wrong.   And my two cents...I love everything about Braums!

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## hoya

Braums makes a pretty good hamburger and has good ice cream.  Their service is terrible and a lot of their stores look dingy.  If a better store came along I would shop there instead.  Braums is everywhere in Oklahoma but I don't think they've spread out too far beyond that.

The thing about family owned companies is that at some point, the person in the family with the business sense dies off.

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## HangryHippo

> Braums makes a pretty good hamburger and has good ice cream.  Their service is terrible and a lot of their stores look dingy.  If a better store came along I would shop there instead.  Braums is everywhere in Oklahoma but I don't think they've spread out too far beyond that.
> 
> The thing about family owned companies is that at some point, the person in the family with the business sense dies off.


A lot of their stores look rundown right after opening.  I don't know what it is, but they're always unkempt.  And the quality of their burgers has gone downhill significantly lately.  I still love their ice cream but I go a lot less than I used to.

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## traxx

I buy all my milk at Braum's because I know what I'm getting and where it came from. I eat their food from time to time and their shakes and malts can't be beat. And maybe you're right about the old commercials. It comes off as cheap but I could live with it if they would just run their stores more effeciently. Clean stores and short wait times would do wonders. That's everyone's biggest complaint about Braum's. Other similar fast food places can do it with minimum wage employees. Braum's could too if they just put their mind to it. It's not a matter not hiring the right store employees. It's a matter of effeciency. They need an effeciency expert to look at the stores, implement changes at one store and then they can use that as a template.

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## OKVision4U

> A lot of their stores look rundown right after opening.  I don't know what it is, but they're always unkempt.  And the quality of their burgers has gone downhill significantly lately.  *I still love their ice cream but I go a lot less than I used to*.


This is a tragic reality that businesses "don't want to ever hear".   The consumers that like your products, but don't enter the doors.  From what I am seeing (as others on this topic have stated the same thing) most frequent consumers of Braums are now staying away.  ...poor quality / customer service issues / un-clean....certainly not what you want in this business of food.

Pete, could we have this thread moved to it own ? thank you.

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## traxx

> This is a tragic reality that businesses "don't want to ever hear".   The consumers that like your products, but don't enter the doors.  From what I am seeing (as others on this topic have stated the same thing) most frequent consumers of Braums are now staying away.  ...poor quality / customer service issues / un-clean....certainly not what you want in this business of food.
> 
> Pete, could we have this thread moved to it own ? thank you.


And the sad thing is, these are fixable problems. 

Back when I was married, the wife took the kids to the Braum's facility in Tuttle for a tour. A lady on the tour asked, "This place is spotless but your stores are consistantly dirty. Why is that?" The person leading the tour said that wasn't the first time they've heard that. Why not fix it then? Could the guys that here that complaint at the plant not run it up the chain to the boys at corporate?

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## OKVision4U

This is another sad point, the C-level management at Braums are 100% aware of their poor customer service rating.  It would cost money for them to make "enhancements" and they are ok with today's results.

Braum's has this example to make a difference:  Loves vs. QT  ... Loves shares the same "ugly store" issues, but is doing well at the bank.  QT is hands-down a better managed corporation ( from the top , to the bottom). and the results are evident... Look at their employees when you walk into their store... Highly trained & motivated.  They are buying-into what QT is trying to accomplish.

Bruam's and Loves share the same excuse, they say the "low skilled workforce" is the reason for their POOR performance, but QT is showing you how that is not true.

----------


## Mastyc

> This is another sad point, the C-level management at Braums are 100% aware of their poor customer service rating.  It would cost money for them to make "enhancements" and they are ok with today's results.
> 
> Braum's has this example to make a difference:  Loves vs. QT  ... Loves shares the same "ugly store" issues, but is doing well at the bank.  QT is hands-down a better managed corporation ( from the top , to the bottom). and the results are evident... Look at their employees when you walk into their store... Highly trained & motivated.  They are buying-into what QT is trying to accomplish.
> 
> Bruam's and Loves share the same excuse, they say the "low skilled workforce" is the reason for their POOR performance, but QT is showing you how that is not true.


Honestly, I really think a lot of these problems exist because for what every reason, OKC patrons allow it.  Every place that is listed in this thread is pretty much exactly the same.  I don't eat at Sonics here because IMO the food quality and service is terrible.  I don't have that problem out of town.  I don't go to Braums because they are extremely dirty and downright gross.  Braums, unlike sonic, has this issue outside of Oklahoma, but those locations don't do any business.  I am quite shocked that the Braums in the DFW metroplex stay because I never see any customers at any of them.  Taco Bueno in OKC is run down and pretty gross at most locations.  But if you go to a newer one in another city they are actually pretty sought after and busy(like the south austin one that was mentioned, lived down the street from it when it opened, was very excited). Homeland and Buy4less?  I feel like as long as local customers keep giving these companies money, they have no reason to set higher standards.

----------


## ljbab728

LOL, what a silly theory.  OKC gets crap because we don't care.  LOL

----------


## jn1780

> This is another sad point, the C-level management at Braums are 100% aware of their poor customer service rating.  It would cost money for them to make "enhancements" and they are ok with today's results.
> 
> Braum's has this example to make a difference:  Loves vs. QT  ... Loves shares the same "ugly store" issues, but is doing well at the bank.  QT is hands-down a better managed corporation ( from the top , to the bottom). and the results are evident... Look at their employees when you walk into their store... Highly trained & motivated.  They are buying-into what QT is trying to accomplish.
> 
> Bruam's and Loves share the same excuse, they say the "low skilled workforce" is the reason for their POOR performance, but QT is showing you how that is not true.


Sorry, you lost me at QT vs Loves.  Their not even in the same sector of the industry. Loves does have a few car stops, but this is a very small segment of their target market.  They do have better stores compared to Pilot who is thier main competitor. 

How many stores does QT have out in the middle of nowhere where their is less employees to choose from?

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## OKVision4U

> Sorry, you lost me at QT vs Loves.  Their not even in the same sector of the industry. Loves does have a few car stops, but this is a very small segment of their target market.  They do have better stores compared to Pilot who is thier main competitor. 
> 
> How many stores does QT have out in the middle of nowhere where their is less employees to choose from?


I gave you a great example of Local Corporations in the same industry, serving the same customer base.  But yet, 2 completely different results.  Loves ( unclean / cheap / low customer service ) vs. QT ( clean / invested in their people & their futures / high customer service )... hands down, QT is a gem of a business model.     

Braum's suffers from the same "excuses" that Loves uses... low skilled workforce.  That is an excuse, QT uses the same (human resources) and achieves their goals.... clean / professional / high customer service ratings , etc.  Happy Customers , happy employees., = healthy business model.

----------


## SoonerDave

OKvision, 

Please post your source for the "invested in future/unclean/cheap/low customer service" ratings you cite for QT, Braum's and Love's. I think many of us here would really like to read/study them, as I realize now these must be hard research numbers you are using in the absolutes you're posting. Think we'd all stand to benefit.

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## OKVision4U

> OKvision, 
> 
> Please post your source for the "invested in future/unclean/cheap/low customer service" ratings you cite for QT, Braum's and Love's. I think many of us here would really like to read/study them, as I realize now these must be hard research numbers you are using in the absolutes you're posting. Think we'd all stand to benefit.


well sdave, you have access to some of the information... ODEQ.   Go online and review all you want.  If you are old enough to drive, you can go there yourself and be sure to look at the archives records too.  Enjoy!   My (professional) resources may be different than yours.  Enjoy your research.

----------


## SoonerDave

> well sdave, you have access to some of the information... ODEQ.   Go online and review all you want.  If you are old enough to drive, you can go there yourself and be sure to look at the archives records too.  Enjoy!   My (professional) resources may be different than yours.  Enjoy your research.


Not how it works, Vision. You make the assertions based on facts you claim to have. I am challenging *you* to post the information so the rest of us may objectively assess it. It's not up to me to defend what you post. 

I will give you props for consistency in coming after me, personally, every time I ask you to do nothing more than post hard data backing your assertions, not just rehashes of your own opinions or indirect slams against folks who dare to disagree even slightly with your unilateral proclamations. 

As for ODEQ, I'm assuming ODEQ means "Oklahoma Department of Environmental Quality?" If not, what then? Department of Environmental Quality has "low customer service" and "invested in future" ratings? Really?

Do tell.

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## OKVision4U

> Not how it works, Vision. You make the assertions based on facts you claim to have. I am challenging *you* to post the information so the rest of us may objectively assess it. It's not up to me to defend what you post. 
> 
> I will give you props for consistency in coming after me, personally, every time I ask you to do nothing more than post hard data backing your assertions, not just rehashes of your own opinions or* indirect slams against folks who dare to disagree even slightly with your unilateral proclamations.* As for ODEQ, I'm assuming ODEQ means "Oklahoma Department of Environmental Quality?" If not, what then? Department of Environmental Quality has "low customer service" and "invested in future" ratings? Really?
> 
> Do tell.


sdave, I am talking about a company that makes ice cream / burgers / & milk.  You may need to push back from the screen and go wait in that long line ( at the drive thru ) for your shake.

----------


## SoonerDave

> sdave, I am talking about a company that makes ice cream / burgers / & milk.  You may need to push back from the screen and go wait in that long line ( at the drive thru ) for your shake.


And, once again, more personal slams, no links to sources of data. Think you need to admit you don't have them. Rest assured I've dealt with folks who have nothing more than insults in reply to requests for facts.....so you keep right on slamming, and I'll keep asking for facts. Everyone else can be the judge.

----------


## venture

> And, once again, more personal slams, no links to sources of data. Think you need to admit you don't have them. Rest assured I've dealt with folks who have nothing more than insults in reply to requests for facts.....so you keep right on slamming, and I'll keep asking for facts. Everyone else can be the judge.


How can facts be delivered when the supposed referenced numbers are being pulled from one's posterior? We've been down this road how many times on this board now? Same result, time and time again.

----------


## ljbab728

> How can facts be delivered when the supposed referenced numbers are being pulled from one's posterior? We've been down this road how many times on this board now? Same result, time and time again.


I think that he has finally graduated from the prunepicker school of logic.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Honestly, I really think a lot of these problems exist because for what every reason, OKC patrons allow it.  Every place that is listed in this thread is pretty much exactly the same.  I don't eat at Sonics here because IMO the food quality and service is terrible.  I don't have that problem out of town.  I don't go to Braums because they are extremely dirty and downright gross.  Braums, unlike sonic, has this issue outside of Oklahoma, but those locations don't do any business.  I am quite shocked that the Braums in the DFW metroplex stay because I never see any customers at any of them.  Taco Bueno in OKC is run down and pretty gross at most locations.  But if you go to a newer one in another city they are actually pretty sought after and busy(like the south austin one that was mentioned, lived down the street from it when it opened, was very excited). Homeland and Buy4less?  I feel like as long as local customers keep giving these companies money, they have no reason to set higher standards.


When I lived in Dallas, the Braum's that were there were always packed. Braum's is NOT outright dirty and gross. What the hell is wrong with you people? What do you want from Braum's? How about if they lay down gold floors, will that be good enough for you? For Christ's sake, if you think Braum's is that run down and poorly run and the people of OKC want better, then get off your ass and open up a new restaurant with golden floors, platinum plated ovens and stoves, serve your guests liquid diamond, and while you're at it, give everyone a free Phantom with each purchase, maybe that will be good enough customer service.

I have had no problems with Braum's to date and they are a great company that do great things for the local economy and operate by great ethics. You obviously have no idea how much money Braum's donates to great and-in most cases-local causes. 

Here is their number: 405-478-1656 .... I'm sure if you tried hard enough, you could even sit down with Bill and discuss your concerns with him, the CEO. They do care what you think and will take action if something is wrong. Sitting around looking for bs excuses to complain is the move of a small man. Stand up for your community and let Braum's know you are not satisfied.

Grow a pair of balls, and call the damn people. It is so funny how you hate on successful companies that do more in one day than you will ever do in your whole life.

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## OKVision4U

> When I lived in Dallas, the Braum's that were there were always packed. Braum's is NOT outright dirty and gross. What the hell is wrong with you people? What do you want from Braum's? How about if they lay down gold floors, will that be good enough for you? *For Christ's sake, if you think Braum's is that run down and poorly run and the people of OKC want better, then get off your ass and open up a new restaurant* with golden floors, platinum plated ovens and stoves, serve your guests liquid diamond, and while you're at it, give everyone a free Phantom with each purchase, maybe that will be good enough customer service.
> 
> I have had no problems with Braum's to date and they are a great company that do great things for the local economy and operate by great ethics. You obviously have no idea how much money Braum's donates to great and-in most cases-local causes. 
> 
> Here is their number: 405-478-1656 .... I'm sure if you tried hard enough, you could even sit down with Bill and discuss your concerns with him, the CEO. They do care what you think and will take action if something is wrong. Sitting around looking for bs excuses to complain is the move of a small man. Stand up for your community and let Braum's know you are not satisfied.
> 
> *Grow a pair of balls, and call the damn people*. It is so funny how you hate on successful companies that do more in one day than you will ever do in your whole life.


Panda, You summed it up so well.  This is exactly "WHY" the outside competition is here today.  Freddy's is opening a store just a few miles from the Braum's farm and several other NEW locations in the OKC metro.  DQ just moved in and opened up a NEW store.  Steak & Shake is here too w/ several stores in the OKC metro.  Why did they do this, because Braum's is at such a low level of consumer satisfaction.  Trust me, they would not be here if Braums was not vulnerable.  DQ moved out of Oklahoma, remember?  ...why are they back now?  ...Braum's left the barn door open.  

See we don't have to ( call and demand more from Braum's ), we have other options now.

In a consumer driven business, the customers w/ the loud voice / squeeky-wheel is the easy issue to address.  It is the large volume of "quite / unsatisfied" customers that you hate to see leave and never come back.  That is where Braum's is at.

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## Easy180

The outside competition is here because our economy is doing pretty well and we are one of the fattest states in the nation. To say its due to Braum's is laughable. Geez

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## ctchandler

OKVision4U,
Not to be argumentative but I wanted to point out that there are only two Steak and Shake restaurants in the metro area, one almost to Amarillo, and the other close to Ft. Smith (sorry, just kidding).  The addresses are 6030 S. W. 3rd and the other is 7181 S. E. 29th.  I'm not sure what you meant by "several".  I don't know how many there were, but the Edmond store closed in the last six-twelve months.
C. T.


> Steak & Shake is here too w/ several stores in the OKC metro.

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## Plutonic Panda

Seems good for the company




> *Sonic boom: Drive-in on fast track with nationwide expansion plans*
> 
> OKLAHOMA CITY – Seven years ago, Max Gelwix and the other three principals in SPG Management LLC decided to bring Sonic to the San Diego, Calif., area. Gelwix said he made the call to the company because he thought the weather in the area was perfect for a brand with sales that historically do well in warm temperatures.
> 
> “I felt that the culture and the climate was such a great fit,” Gelwix said. “The average temperature is 75 to 78 degrees, 365 days a year. It’s a nice environment for us.”
> 
> SPG Management opened its first store in 2009. That store had $3.6 million in sales in the first year, while an average Sonic has $1.1 million in sales. The company now has seven Sonics in the San Diego metropolitan area, with plans to reach 24 over the next several years.
> 
> Those stores are part of Sonic Corp.’s plan to add 1,000 drive-ins in the next 10 years, including 300 planned in California. Bob Franke, senior vice president of franchise sales and international, said the company will recruit additional franchisees in order to make the growth a reality.
> ...

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## Dustin

They need to build a few really great flagship stores in the major California cities to really build their image.

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## ljbab728

There are about 60 Sonics in California.  Most are in the LA or central valley area.

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## Dustin

Well I guess some research on my part would've helped.

I did a coastal tour of Cali with the fam last year and we didn't find one Sonic.

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## ljbab728

> Well I guess some research on my part would've helped.
> 
> I did a coastal tour of Cali with the fam last year and we didn't find one Sonic.


That's probably because most are not near the coast.   :Smile:

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## Pete

In all of Southern California, there are only a few and none anywhere near Los Angeles.

The closest one to me is 60 miles away.

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## ljbab728

> In all of Southern California, there are only a few and none anywhere near Los Angeles.
> 
> The closest one to me is 60 miles away.


I'm not sure exactly where you live Pete.  The locations in the LA area are in Duarte, Anaheim, Fullerton, Palmdale, Santa Ana, Costa Mesa, Mission Viejo, Rancho Cucamonga, and Victorville.

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## Pete

I know exactly where they are.  Those are all in very outlying areas or in Orange County.

The closest to me or anyone in L.A. are in Duarte or Palmdale (went way, way out of my way to go to both) which are both a long way from even the middle of town.

They have franchisees out here who are not doing much of anything.

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## Rover

> I'm not sure exactly where you live Pete.  The locations in the LA area are in Duarte, Anaheim, Fullerton, Palmdale, Santa Ana, Costa Mesa, Mission Viejo, Rancho Cucamonga, and Victorville.


One in Ontario too, isn't there?  Or is that the Rancho Cucamonga one.  Thought it is closer to Ontario Mills.  I've seen cars lined up there.

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## bradh

Every Sonic in California should be of the variety that includes the sand volleyball court

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## RadicalModerate

> Every Sonic in California should be of the variety that includes the sand volleyball court


Plus Cheese and Tuna Frenchies, that you can "Surf Off".  =)

(Historical Note: Cheese and Tuna Frenchies were a drive-in version of a classic Monte Cristo Sandwich, dumbed down for the masses c/o King's Famous Foods . . . as bad as they were, they were really good.  Do not misapprehend the recipe as Cheese and Tuna. The choice was a Cheese Frenchie  or a Tuna Frenchie.  Usually with a side of the best fries ever and a Vanila Malt.  King's Fine Foods was the best ever for a 17 year old mind. vis--vis dining. =)

(there are now several versions available on the Internet, yet Sonic Corp refuses to borrow them . . . and that's probably a good thing, as Martha Stewart might say.)  =)

I once pitched the concept, via telephone (push-button), to a cubicle dweller in the heart o' the hive (corporate, local) and that's the only reason I know that Cheese and Tuna Frenchies are related to The Classic Monte Cristo. My thinking, at the time, was that they have bread . . . they have something resembling cheese . . . (maybe even some tuna) . . . and they have the deep fryers.  They might have to make a major purchase of potato chips for the crust.

(please be advised that I think The Sonic Ad Campaign featuring a more modern version of [Dumb and Dumber] are some of the best ads for fast food on local television.  and my wife agrees so i guess we are right, in the correct sense of the term.)  =)

Frankly, I'm glad that this culinary delight never was reactualized.
I don't eat deep-fried food anymore.  =)

(p.s.: If you ever choose to visit a Sonic location, wherever it may be, tip the help generously. At least a couple of dollars.)

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## ljbab728

> I know exactly where they are.  Those are all in very outlying areas or in Orange County.
> 
> The closest to me or anyone in L.A. are in Duarte or Palmdale (went way, way out of my way to go to both) which are both a long way from even the middle of town.
> 
> They have franchisees out here who are not doing much of anything.


I'm not trying to be argumentative and I'm not saying they are everywhere but the nearest to downtown LA in Duarte is about 16 miles away and the location in Anaheim is about 23 miles away.  That's almost next door in LA terms.   :Smile:

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## ljbab728

> One in Ontario too, isn't there?  Or is that the Rancho Cucamonga one.  Thought it is closer to Ontario Mills.  I've seen cars lined up there.



Yes, that's the Rancho Cucamonga location.

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## Pete

ljbab, sorry if I came across as snarky in my last post...  Just re-read it and didn't mean to come across that way.

I actually inquired about a franchise for Southern California several years ago and was told they were all taken.  Whoever has the one for L.A. County had one very little in a very prime area.  It's different franchisees for Orange County, San Diego and Bakersfield who are all building a bunch.

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## Jim Kyle

> I'm not trying to be argumentative and I'm not saying they are everywhere but the nearest to downtown LA in Duarte is about 16 miles away and the location in Anaheim is about 23 miles away.  That's almost next door in LA terms.


But as I recall, Pete is in Thousand Oaks, which is on the order of 40 miles from downtown L.A.

When I lived out there my house was in Santa Susana (annexed into L.A. by 1967). and it was a 15-mile drive to my work in Canoga Park. That, in turn, was at least that far from downtown L.A.  And Thousand Oaks was around 15 miles away from me, on the side opposite Canoga POark and L.A.  That comes out to about 45 miles, but Santa Su was way north of a straight path from Canoga Park to Thousand Oaks...

I'm sure all this has changed greatly since I left there very early in 1962 -- a bit more than 52 years ago! Then, Thousand Oaks was little more than a post office...

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## Jim Kyle

> ljbab, sorry if I came across as snarky in my last post...  Just re-read it and didn't mean to come across that way.
> 
> I actually inquired about a franchise for Southern California several years ago and was told they were all taken.  Whoever has the one for L.A. County had one very little in a very prime area.  It's different franchisees for Orange County, San Diego and Bakersfield who are all building a bunch.


Aren't you in Ventura county? Or it just the area north of the coastal hills? I was in Ventura county and the dividing line was just a bit northwest of Chatsworth...

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## Pete

Duarte is lightyears from downtown L.A. in terms of travel time and Anaheim is twice as bad.

Let's put it this way, no one in Los Angeles has any clue about Sonic other than seeing the now-national TV ads.

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## Pete

Jim, I live very near the LA/Ventura county line.

But as a management consultant, I'm all over L.A.  One of my last projects was in Long Beach which is almost two hours away and still in LA County!

Duarte on the best possible day is still over an hour away.  The only times I've ever been is going to/from Palm Springs.

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## ljbab728

> Jim, I live very near the LA/Ventura county line.
> 
> But as a management consultant, I'm all over L.A.  One of my last projects was in Long Beach which is almost two hours away and still in LA County!
> 
> Duarte on the best possible day is still over an hour away.  The only times I've ever been is going to/from Palm Springs.


That means I was there last year and didn't even know it.  I was visiting my brother, who has lived in LA for about 35 years, and I drove us from the Hollywood area to Palm Springs for a short getaway.  I didn't see the Sonic.  LOL

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## Pete

That Sonic is a few blocks off the freeway...  You'd have to know it's there.

I do triathlons out in Palm Springs and I always make my carpool-mates stop at Sonic and they've all loved it.

Believe it or not, there are absolutely zero drive-in's in L.A.  Wish I could get a franchise!

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## ljbab728

> That Sonic is a few blocks off the freeway...  You'd have to know it's there.
> 
> I do triathlons out in Palm Springs and I always make my carpool-mates stop at Sonic and they've all loved it.
> 
> Believe it or not, there are absolutely zero drive-in's in L.A.  Wish I could get a franchise!


I believe you Pete,  I've been visiting relatives in L.A. regularly since the 50's so I'm very familiar with the area.  It's kind of like how crazy the people here are about a possible In-N-Out Burger location.  We all want something new and different.

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## RadicalModerate

> Yes, that's the Rancho Cucamonga location.


Dude: You are always trying to be argumentative.  And that's a good thing.  Isn't it?
It's, like that other dude . . . from ancient mythology . . . lookin' fer the truth . . . with a lantern (or whatever).

So . . . Where's My Braum's? (with sidewalks and an appreciation for the natural local environment . . .?)  =)

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## ljbab728

> Dude: You are always trying to be argumentative.  And that's a good thing.  Isn't it?
> It's, like that other dude . . . from ancient mythology . . . lookin' fer the truth . . . with a lantern (or whatever).
> 
> So . . . Where's My Braum's? (with sidewalks and an appreciation for the natural local environment . . .?)  =)


Sorry, but Braum's hasn't made it to LA yet.  I'm angling for a franchise in Palm Springs with Leslie Gore as a partner.

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## RadicalModerate

If you are angling, I trust you are using the right bait . . .
(So why doesn't Sonic have an organic, fresh caught, fish sandwich like . . ....Arby's?)

(or, a Tuna Frenchie)

(Frankly . . . This is all beginning to read like a Virtual Running of the Bull[*] somewhere  in Spain =)

[Always tip "the help" at Sonic]

For the California Market: Sonic Sushi. Non Fried. Here is a Fish and some sauce.  Eat it.

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## ljbab728

> If you are angling, I trust you are using the right bait . . .
> (So why doesn't Sonic have an organic, fresh caught, fish sandwich like . . ....Arby's?)
> 
> (or, a Tuna Frenchie)
> 
> (Frankly . . . This is all beginning to read like a Virtual Running of the Bull[*] somewhere  in Spain =)
> 
> [Always tip "the help" at Sonic]


Well, it has something to do with bull, alright.   :Big Grin:

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## RadicalModerate

> Well, it has something to do with bull, alright.


Couldn't have said it better myself.  thanks.
(yet i still like the ad campaign)
(almost makes me want to alter my eating plan)

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## traxx

[QUOTE=RadicalModerate;778842(p.s.: If you ever choose to visit a Sonic location, wherever it may be, tip the help generously. At least a couple of dollars.)[/QUOTE]

I tip based on carhop hotness. That's the correct way of doing it, right?

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## RadicalModerate

> I tip based on carhop hotness. That's the correct way of doing it, right?


I guess I'd have to ask the former owner of the LA Clippers for the proper answer to that question . . . =)

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## Jersey Boss

> I guess I'd have to ask the former owner of the LA Clippers for the proper answer to that question . . . =)


I think he patronizes "IN n OUT". (Rimshot)

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## Plutonic Panda

> I tip based on carhop hotness. That's the correct way of doing it, right?


Sometimes if you tip, they tip... that should be their motto  :Wink:

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## RadicalModerate

> I think he patronizes "IN n OUT". (Rimshot)


So do Walter and The Dude . . . and sometimes that "Shut The 'F' Up Donnie" guy who later starred in the original Fargo.
So it's all good . . . ain't it?  =)

Speaking of "tipping" . . . would it be in bad form, or simply in bad taste, to suggest that the owner of "The Clippers" might consider visiting a mohel to get circumcised at about the collar line?  Or is it just too soon?

(don't worry: I was never able to solve Rubik's Cube.  yet I did think about it for a couple of minutes.  =)

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## Jeepnokc

> So do Walter and The Dude . . . and sometimes that "Shut The 'F' Up Donnie" guy who later starred in the original Fargo.
> So it's all good . . . ain't it?  =)
> 
> Speaking of "tipping" . . . would it be in bad form, or simply in bad taste, to suggest that the owner of "The Clippers" might consider visiting a mohel to get circumcised at about the collar line?  Or is it just too soon?
> 
> (don't worry: I was never able to solve Rubik's Cube.  yet I did think about it for a couple of minutes.  =)


Off topic but reminded me of an old joke.  Why do lawyers wear neck ties?.............................................  .......To keep the foreskin down!

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## Bigrayok

There was a dispute between California franchisees and the corporation a number of years ago. I do not know if the issue was resolved. I wonder if California regulations influence the reason there are not more Sonics in California. I knew a guy from Exeter in the central California area that thought Sonic was a great concept. He said there were not any in his area he knew of.

Bigray in Ok

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## ljbab728

A new test kitchen is coming to the downtown headquarters.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/4746481?embargo=1




> Sonic Corp. is building a new 3,429-square-foot test kitchen at its corporate headquarters in Bricktown designed to take the company’s menu to the next level as the company embarks on plans to grow the chain by 1,000 new locations over the next 10 years.

----------


## Just the facts

If they are going to add 1,000 location in the next 10 years they are going to have to try something besides the drive-in model.  They might have to follow the lead of Checkers, an east coast drive-thru concept, that has allowed franchises to drop the drive-thru portion of their operation as they enter urban markets (which is where their customer base is moving).

Checkers makes a rally for the Chicago market | Voices




> If the black-and-white checked exterior of fast-food drive-thru Checkers has seemed absent from the Chicago dining landscape, wait no longer. Instead, get ready for a slimmed-down version.
> 
> Checkers Drive-In Restaurants opened its first new location in more than a year Thursday, at 4320 W. North Ave, the first of four Chicagoland locations slated to open this year. The chain — branded as either Checkers or Rally’s depending on the region — has more than 700 locations nationwide, but has been limited in its expansion efforts because of the double drive-thru design.
> 
> To break into denser markets like Chicago, the company decided to loosen constraints on corporate and franchise locations build-out options, says Jennifer Durham, Checkers vice president of franchise development. “We’ve really evolved the restaurant formats and the designs to incorporate whatever it is that’s needed in that particular trade area,” Durham says.
> 
> For a congested city like Chicago, that means allowing single-lane drive thrus, strip mall end caps and building conversions to better accommodate pedestrian and mass transit traffic.
> 
> Food industry research consultancy Technomic executive vice president Darren Tristano doesn’t think that ditching the double drive-through will hurt Checkers’ brand, which he called “relatively flat.” “This is going to help them expand the brand beyond more of the rural and suburban locations, into the more hip, urban places,” Tristano says.
> ...

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## jn1780

> A new test kitchen is coming to the downtown headquarters.
> 
> http://www.oklahoman.com/article/4746481?embargo=1


They need a new facility that trains employees how to get orders right.

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## Urbanized

Which location are you frequenting? I wouldn't say that Sonic is my absolute favorite fast food purveyor, but the ones I visit ARE among the most consistently-correct order-fillers of just about any brand I can think of. The most inconsistent place I can think of is the Taco Bueno on NW 23rd, which I honestly estimate gets at least one thing wrong/omitted 9 of 10 visits.

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## LakeEffect

> If they are going to add 1,000 location in the next 10 years they are going to have to try something besides the drive-in model.  They might have to follow the lead of Checkers, an east coast drive-thru concept, that has allowed franchises to drop the drive-thru portion of their operation as they enter urban markets (which is where their customer base is moving).
> 
> Checkers makes a rally for the Chicago market | Voices


I believe a previous article about their growth desire stated as much - more sit-down stores, especially up north. It might be linked earlier in the thread...?

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## Snowman

> If they are going to add 1,000 location in the next 10 years they are going to have to try something besides the drive-in model.  They might have to follow the lead of Checkers, an east coast drive-thru concept, that has allowed franchises to drop the drive-thru portion of their operation as they enter urban markets (which is where their customer base is moving).
> 
> Checkers makes a rally for the Chicago market | Voices


Since they have done versions in malls and airports, they seem fine with dropping the drive through/car hop and having customers talk to clerks behind a counter

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## jn1780

> Which location are you frequenting? I wouldn't say that Sonic is my absolute favorite fast food purveyor, but the ones I visit ARE among the most consistently-correct order-fillers of just about any brand I can think of. The most inconsistent place I can think of is the Taco Bueno on NW 23rd, which I honestly estimate gets at least one thing wrong/omitted 9 of 10 visits.


122nd and Penn
Telephone road in Moore.

These two locations have messed my order up on more than one occasion.

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## mkjeeves

NW 21st and Council is my local one. Usually they do a pretty good job but they gave me someone's bacon and egg sammy in place of my burger the other day. The absolute rule I didn't follow, if you don't check it before you drive off, the order will be wrong. Every. Single. Time.

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## catch22

> NW 21st and Council is my local one. Usually they do a pretty good job but they gave me someone's bacon and egg sammy in place of my burger the other day. The absolute rule I didn't follow, if you don't check it before you drive off, the order will be wrong. Every. Single. Time.


That's true.

I don't eat at Sonic, but I can go to the same restaurant 100 times and check the order before I leave. Out of 100 times, 100 times the order will be right. The 101st time, I forget to check the order and it will be wrong.

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## ljbab728

I eat at Sonic regularly and can't remember the last time I had an incorrect order.  It's also the only fast food place that I frequent where they always read back my order to me when it's delivered.

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## Plutonic Panda

Maybe this should be in its own thread in politics, I'm not sure...

Sonic asks customers not to bring guns to Drive In patios, restaurants | News OK

----------


## Bunty

> Maybe this should be in its own thread in politics, I'm not sure...
> 
> Sonic asks customers not to bring guns to Drive In patios, restaurants | News OK


I don't think the 2nd Amendment was meant to take the right away from property owners the right to tell visitors to not bring guns with them, especially if they are openly displayed.

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## Plutonic Panda

> I don't think the 2nd Amendment was meant to take the right away from property owners the right to tell visitors to not bring guns with them, especially if they are openly displayed.


I agree. It is their decision.

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## okclee

14 things you didn't know about Sonic 
Fun Facts You Didn't Know About Sonic, America's Drive-In - Thrillist

3. There's a seriously badass beach location in Florida
Sonic's Miami location is called Sonic Beach, and while it does have the classic drive-in, it also sits right on the sand. There's even an air-conditioned dining room offering beer and wine. We're not sure which Merlot pairs best with hot dogs, but this is the place to find out.

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## dankrutka

> 14 things you didn't know about Sonic 
> Fun Facts You Didn't Know About Sonic, America's Drive-In - Thrillist
> 
> 3. There's a seriously badass beach location in Florida
> Sonic's Miami location is called Sonic Beach, and while it does have the classic drive-in, it also sits right on the sand. There's even an air-conditioned dining room offering beer and wine. We're not sure which Merlot pairs best with hot dogs, but this is the place to find out.


Why couldn't they offer beer and wine at their Bricktown location?!? Actually make it something special, which their Bricktown location is not.

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## Achilleslastand

Fun Fact #15
Depending on the locale of each and every Sonic the quality could range from at best very average to downright horrible.

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## Snowman

> Fun Fact #15
> Depending on the locale of each and every Sonic the quality could range from at best very average to downright horrible.


Could stick that in the definition of chain restarant

Lol - 


> 9. They're in almost every US state: Most people in the country can get their hands on some Sonic since there are locations in 44 of the 50 states. *And now a moment of silence for Alaska, Hawaii, Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont.* Your day will come.

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## ljbab728

Say what you will about the food, I have to give Kudos to Sonic for this.

Sonic Drive-In funds $45,000 worth of classroom projects in Oklahoma City Public Schools | News OK




> Sonic, the nation’s largest chain of drive-in restaurants, kicked off its Limeades for Learning program in partnership with DonorsChoose.org, an online charity that helps students in need. The program gives public school teachers the classroom materials they need to inspire students to learn.
> 
> In all, Sonic donated more than $45,000 to 30 schools in the Oklahoma City district for 68 classroom projects. Approximately 2,000 students are expected to benefit from items designed to spark creativity and innovation.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Behind The Menu: Sonic's Secret Kitchen - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

----------


## Richard at Remax

Kevin Durant of Oklahoma City Thunder adds endorsement deal with Sonic - ESPN

----------


## Filthy

> Kevin Durant of Oklahoma City Thunder adds endorsement deal with Sonic - ESPN


     I cant wait for some commercials, with the two guys bantering back and forth about certain Sonic foods in a car...only to have KD pop up from the back seat, and be a regular in the commercial rotation!

I would also love to see them have a KD inspired hotdog or something on the menu and call it the "SuperSonic" just to give the Seattle folks something else to bitch about.

----------


## Bullbear

HAHAHA.. I would bet Kevin would stay clear of being linked to a SUPERSONIC hotdog.. but that would be amazing!..lol

----------


## adaniel

For someone who (according to the national media) is clearly on his way out of OKC he sure is signing a lot of contracts with local companies.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## ljbab728

This statement from the article probably rules out a Supersonic hotdog.




> As part of Durant's deal, he will be responsible for coming up with his own dishes for the brand, which recently opened a test kitchen.
> 
> Yormark said Durant's items will be geared toward the healthier side, which falls in line with some of his other endorsements.

----------


## Filthy

> This statement from the article probably rules out a Supersonic hotdog.


I do apologize, for incorrectly making a statement as such in regards to the nutritional value of said food group.

----------


## RadicalModerate

> Behind The Menu: Sonic's Secret Kitchen - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |


Sonic needs to start making Cheese Frenchies and Tuna Frenchies.
These items were big hits on the menu of King's Food Host back in the 60's.
They already have the fryers and I'm sure they can obtain some bread, some cheese, some tuna and some cornflakes.
Think of Frenchies as low-rent Monte Cristo sandwiches.

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/119962



The Secret Recipe (for Tuna Frenchies sub Tuna Salad for the cheese)
http://www.food.com/recipe/cheese-frenchee-116213

----------


## ljbab728

> I do apologize, for incorrectly making a statement as such in regards to the nutritional value of said food group.


Apology accepted, just never let that happen again.  LOL

----------


## mmonroe

Earlier in the week I ordered a 12-piece wings and asked for it to be split 1/2 bbq and 1/2 buffalo, instead of charging me the $7 and change it cost for a 12 piece, I was instead charged 3.99 twice for 2 6-piece wings.  When I asked why I was charged for 2 orders of 6-piece wings, I was told they couldn't split the 12 piece into more than 1 flavoring.  This is despite the fact that the little placard inside the menu board saying that 12-piece and 24-piece orders could be split.  (It's in the fine print on the board).  Thank you Sonic at Reno and Air Depot in Midwest City.  I've ordered from the Sonic on 29th and Douglas with no problem.

----------


## RadicalModerate

I can't even begin to imagine what you might have gotten had you tried to order the wings at the one at 122nd and Penn . . .

----------


## TheTravellers

Wife's email to me about stopping by Sonic (on NW 164th/Penn) on the way home last week sometime - "How about corn dogs, they can't screw those up, can they?"  Really sad if that's they way people talk about your restaurant...

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Oklahoma drive-thru is serving up financial success, despite fast food slump | KFOR.com

----------


## ljbab728

More bad news for all of our resident Sonic haters.

Oklahoma City-based Sonic booms on lower gas prices, strong sales | News OK




> While low crude oil prices are hammering the stock prices of Oklahoma energy sector companies, Oklahoma City-based Sonic Corp.’s stock hit a new all-time high this week of $32 a share.
> The stock is up more than 60 percent over the past year as the company sees strong sales growth and has expanded into new markets.
> The drive-in franchiser hit a milestone *$4 billion* in total sales at the end of its last fiscal year August and is about to expand into Rhode Island— it’s 45th state. The company also has aggressive expansion plans in California, where it currently has about 65 to 70 locations, Vaughan said.


Also mentioned are the upcoming commercials that KD will be filming with the "two guys".  That should be a lot of fun.

I'm not going to research it but I have to wonder how their success is comparing to a chain like In-N-Out, which seems to be so highly longed for here.

----------


## John

> I'm not going to research it but I have to wonder how their success is comparing to a chain like In-N-Out, which seems to be so highly longed for here.


I know that people in Sonic-free areas treat them the same way we do In-N-Out; and that't not including former Okies.

----------


## ljbab728

> I know that people in Sonic-free areas treat them the same way we do In-N-Out; and that't not including former Okies.


It's been mentioned often here that we always long for the grass that's just over the fence.

----------


## ylouder

I have friends on the east coast that will post things about missing sonic, or sonic being their first stop when they are back home...

I have a sonic within 1.5 of my house and haven't stopped there in over a year.

But wit that said when I go out east for work I always stopped at 5 guys or in and out on the west coast. Grass is always greener.

The last time I remember liking sonic was during highschool and going with a large group of friends.

----------


## gurantula35

I go to sonic 2 or 3 times a day just to get a drink.  Usually on my way to work, and on the way home.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Sonic sees sales increase | News OK

----------


## Urbanized

Saw a big, BIG shoot of some sort today at the Split T (N Western) Sonic location. BIG. As in, bigger than most movie shoots I've seen in Oklahoma. Craft service, several uniforms working security, CRAZY lighting, equipment, tents, multiple RVs, etc. I think it must've been a commercial shoot with KD.

----------


## ljbab728

New commercials with KD.

----------


## ljbab728



----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^^
The first one was definitely filmed here in town; they shot it at the Split-T Sonic location on N Western. I drove by the day they were shooting.

----------


## ljbab728

KD's latest Sonic commercial.

----------


## ljbab728

Brianna scores again with a very interesting interview with CEO, Cliff Hudson.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/543...ive-in%20chain

This is also interesting from the article.




> He also hopes to eventually expand the Sonic brand outside of the United States by the end of the decade, although any plans to do so now are only “speculative,” Hudson said.


That could be a very smart move.  I recently hosted a friend from London who was here for the first time.  One of his priorities was having food from Sonic even though we had never talked about it before.

----------


## ctchandler

> I recently hosted a friend from London who was here for the first time.  One of his priorities was having food from Sonic even though we had never talked about it before.


My friend from London enjoyed Sonic as well.  Not a favorite by any means, but for fast food, a nice place for a quick lunch.  She lives in Carshalton, where is your friend from?
C. T.

----------


## Dustin

I forget which Sonic location we were at, but I was super impressed with the new ordering screens.  Very fancy!

----------


## ljbab728

> My friend from London enjoyed Sonic as well.  Not a favorite by any means, but for fast food, a nice place for a quick lunch.  She lives in Carshalton, where is your friend from?
> C. T.


I don't remember which area of London it is.  I know it is east of central London.

----------


## ctchandler

> I don't remember which area of London it is.  I know it is east of central London.


Carshalton is about eleven miles due South of London.  But it takes forever to get there. 
C. T.

----------


## Dubya61

For fast food, I find them to be incredibly expensive, lately.

----------


## Laramie

Saw this placeholder  (top) of Sonic's headquarters when it was originally proposed for the Capitol Hill area.

Found this site link:  http://www.capitolhillokc.com/ Big plans for Capitol Hill district.  The site really got the cart before the horse...

----------


## stile99

> Found this site link:  (Link to fake site removed) Big plans for Capitol Hill district.  The site really got the cart before the horse...


Scroll down to the bottom of the page.

----------


## Laramie

> Scroll down to the bottom of the page.


Placeholder building & site...

Also the Hard Rock Cafe  :Wink:  .

----------


## emtefury

That Sonic building is ugly.

----------


## Mississippi Blues

"This site is a "fantasy" site."

----------


## brian72

Been going to Sonic for years. Today order a cheeseburger only.  Costs 3.99 plus tax, and its reheated hamburger meat too.  You get the Combo your paying around 7.50-8.00, Not bad I Guess.  But for my money The Garage Burgers hands down are the best and I know you have to go in and sit.  The hamburger meat is much better quality for around 1.00 More than Sonic.  Not a big deal but best time to go to Sonic is during their happy hour pricing.

----------


## emtefury

> "This site is a "fantasy" site."


That is good to know.

----------


## traxx

That fake Sonic building looks like it's straight out of Back to the Future II.

----------


## PhiAlpha

Looks like big news...Sonic acquired by Inspire Brands in Atlanta. 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...ds-2.3-Billion

----------


## Ross MacLochness

“This value-maximizing transaction validates the actions we have taken over the last year to grow traffic and improve sales while delivering differentiated offerings and superior guest service,” said Cliff Hudson, Sonic Corp. CEO.

That's one of the most corporatey things i've ever read haha.

----------


## jonny d

How does this affect OK and OKC tax revenue wise?

----------


## BoulderSooner

That company lets it’s brand operate mostly inpendentlty.  Bw3 is based In Minneapolis and Arby is based in Atlanta.  

There is 0 reason to think that sonic will move its HQ from okc

----------


## gopokes88

Agreed. No reason to think Sonic is going anywhere. If anything this will help fuel their expansion plans and becomes a net positive.

----------


## YeahIKnow

If they change the ice, we riot.

----------


## stlokc

I don't want to be alarmist, and I don't know anything about this transaction. But in general it is not good news for a city when a major business/employer is bought by an outside organization not based locally. I have seen this happen many times; the relationship starts with assurances that nothing will change. Over time, it becomes clear that the biggest, most important decisions affecting the business are now being made elsewhere. The company making those decisions will not have as their first priority Oklahoma City when their executives do not live here.

----------


## Pete

And remember that Sonic does not employ many people in its HQ. 

Entire building in Lower Bricktown is about 100,000 SF and they don't even occupy all of it.


Still, it would suck to lose them and hope that doesn't happen.

----------


## Thomas Vu

If the commercial format changes, I'll cheer for that.

----------


## BridgeBurner

"OKC is proud to be the longtime home of @sonicdrivein.  I want to share I have been told this morning that Sonic’s HQ will remain in OKC for the foreseeable future. Today is clearly a milestone in the company’s history, but we are still proud to be the home of Sonic." -@davidfholt Mayor Holt's twitter

----------


## Pete

^

They always say that 'things won't change' and they almost always do.

----------


## stile99

> If the commercial format changes, I'll cheer for that.


What?  You must be kidding!  They're the best commercials ever what would we do without Pete and...umm...Pete and...  Hmmm.

OK, yeah, I see your point.

ETA: Though being serious, we're talking about them so the ads are doing their job.  Edmond Hyundai knows their stupid song is stupid, they even referenced its stupidity in several of their own commercials.  We all know to follow that dude to Fowler, although we can count on Hudiburg, they'll give us more and the deals are automatic at Automax.  For better or worse (mostly worse) it's the annoying ads that stick in peoples' minds.  If that actually makes them want Sonic or chases them away from Sonic is another matter, but not one the ad agency is concerned with.

----------


## TheTravellers

> "OKC is proud to be the longtime home of @sonicdrivein.  I want to share I have been told this morning that Sonic’s HQ will remain in OKC for the foreseeable future. Today is clearly a milestone in the company’s history, but we are still proud to be the home of Sonic." -@davidfholt Mayor Holt's twitter


"for the foreseeable future"..................

I interviewed there once for an IT position, and I'd bet that's one of the first things to get assimilated, along with HR, usually is at the companies I've worked at that have taken over/been taken over.

----------


## stlokc

> And remember that Sonic does not employ many people in its HQ. 
> 
> Entire building in Lower Bricktown is about 100,000 SF and they don't even occupy all of it.
> 
> 
> Still, it would suck to lose them and hope that doesn't happen.



Yes. It's not really the amount of square footage or even their employee count that worries me. In St. Louis, Nestle bought Purina and I think there are more employees on that campus then when it was headquartered here. Bayer is buying Monsanto and they say they are adding employees. What we have seen happen here, with Anheuser-Busch and others, and I hope it's not the case in OKC with Sonic, is that over time, corporate philanthropy falls. The executives in other cities don't really care about giving as much to the zoo, the symphony, they may scale back their suite at Busch Stadium because they aren't entertaining high-level clients here at Cards games. When the next recession comes, it's politically easier for them to consolidate in their "branch office" town. Sonic probably uses OKC law firms, marketing firms and accounting firms primarily right now. If they have a travel agency, I bet it's in OKC.  Will that always be the case? It's little things like that over time. Plus the prestige of having a non-oil related household name. 

Again, none of this is set in stone. But it's just sad when things like this happen.

----------


## stick47

https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/25/new...ngs/index.html

----------


## jonny d

The way I read it, the local executives are going to stay here. It will be completely independent of the parent company. No common executives. Just the parent company, sub company relationship.

----------


## OKCDrummer77

> If they change the ice, we riot.


I'm with you on this one!

----------


## gopokes88

Normally I’d say sure but Inspire brands acts like a holding company in a few ways. Both Arby’s and bww maintain their HQs. I don’t know why sonic would be any different. 

And Holt just phrased that way because you can never say never.

----------


## brian72

Sonic has went downhill over the last few years.  $5.00 for a hamburger unless it's the special of the week.  Also smaller sized just like braums.  You can get a damn good burger at the Garage for the same price and taste a Helluva lot better too.  But to each his own, that's why I love this Country.  Semper Fi

----------


## shawnw

Yeah but happy hour and burger night are some of the best deals around...

----------


## scottk

> Yeah but happy hour and burger night are some of the best deals around...


We also take advantage of Happy Hour slushes/drinks and the 1/2 price burger night. However, we also avoid the other 150 hours of the week to go to Sonic and pay full price.  :Tongue:

----------


## 5alive

If you use the Sonic app it's Happy Hour ANYTIME for drinks!

----------


## bucktalk

You are not only hilarious but you're also a prophet!  Actually laughed out loud at this. 



> If they change the ice, we riot.

----------


## Timshel

Seeing on Twitter that the Sonic at 23rd/Penn closed. 

While I'm sure this is due to this Sonic perpetually having terrible service (though the order-ahead app did make a huge difference), I'm (probably irrationally) hoping the land is owned by the same people that own the former Buy 4 Less that is right there and this is related to a sale on that property and that we'll see some movement soon. Don't have the time to research this right now - but hopefully someone knows something!

----------


## Pete

Not owned by the same people as Buy 4 Less and thus far, there has been no sale or building permits.

----------


## SEMIweather

> Seeing on Twitter that the Sonic at 23rd/Penn closed. 
> 
> While I'm sure this is due to this Sonic perpetually having terrible service (though the order-ahead app did make a huge difference), I'm (probably irrationally) hoping the land is owned by the same people that own the former Buy 4 Less that is right there and this is related to a sale on that property and that we'll see some movement soon. Don't have the time to research this right now - but hopefully someone knows something!


Never been to this location, but it must have been truly terrible to fail at that intersection. Raising Canes across the street is perpetually packed.

----------


## turnpup

Odd. It's been 3 years now, but when we lived in Linwood, just a few blocks from the Sonic at 23rd and I-44, I'd drive over to the one at 23rd and Penn because it had much better service and food quality than the one in our neighborhood. But a lot can change in a few years...

----------


## brian72

Sonic is overpriced and undersized.  The place sucks and customer service is a Joke.

----------


## Dob Hooligan

I work equidistant between 23rd & I-44 and 23rd & Penn. Never had a good experience at 23rd & Penn. Bad service, bad footprint, bad traffic flow, bad neighborhood. Been going to the company owned 23rd & I-44 since it opened in 1978ish. Good service, good layout, good neighborhood. I eat there often and enjoy it.

----------


## MagzOK

Yes, the location at 23rd and Penn had a horrible layout and was compactly tucked in the parcel of land there.  It was very difficult to maneuver around the lot there.  In general, I think Sonic needs to undergo an entire rebranding and bring back the things that made them really good back in the day -- bring a new logo with an incorporation of their 1980s supercool logo and bring back their quality ingredients.  I remember spending summers at the grandparents farm outside Pawnee and thought it was so much fun to go into town to the local sonic and snag a burger and shake and eat in the gramma's town car.  A lot has changed since then.

----------


## stile99

> bring a new logo with an incorporation of their 1980s supercool logo and bring back their quality ingredients.  I remember spending summers at the grandparents farm outside Pawnee and thought it was so much fun to go into town to the local sonic and snag a burger and shake and eat in the gramma's town car.  A lot has changed since then.


Back when Crossroads Mall was still Crossroads Mall, they had one of those survey places that would send people out into the mall with clipboards for the pre-survey process, and if you met the criteria they took you back to their office and gave you an interview (sometimes with samples of products to try).  I recall one time I participated and the survey was about a possible new Sonic logo. My response was that it was horrible, did not feel welcoming AT ALL, and did not fit the pull into a stall and eat in your car concept. Maybe it would be better for a Sonic Express or something.

Soon after that they switched to the "get your food and get out" logo they still use today.  Little did I know that the "Express" concept was exactly what they were looking for.  The Pickle-Os are long gone, with only the occasional special limited time only return, when you order a malt they tend to forget the actual malt and bring you a shake, and I haven't seen the car window tray in I can't even remember how long (not that I would want to eat there with someone smoking in the next car over anyway).  As for the skates? Forget it.

tl;dr: Sonic is no longer Sonic.

----------


## GoThunder

The Sonic at 23rd/Penn is the closest to our house.  I gave up getting food there after a couple tries.  It was truck-stop level quality, and the service was always terrible.

----------


## Timshel

Drove by this morning and there’s a construction sign up. Been told by someone that would know that they’re scraping and rebuilding the store and that this is a corporate-owned store. I suppose this could end up being a positive thing for that location.

----------


## BBatesokc

Talked to a WalMart employee at the East 15th and I-35 location in Edmond (so take it for what it's worth). They said the Sonic in that location was one of only two-concept locations inside WalMarts. She said the buildout was just over $100,000 and that if the two locations can prove profitable that Sonic would get a contract for 80 more locations inside other WalMarts. 

This employee did't think it was going well. She said their hours we not good. She said it also have a much smaller menu than a regular Sonic.

She said the traffic is nowhere near what McDonald's locations inside WalMarts do and she doesn't think the concept will work based on how its being implemented.

I tend to agree. I go to that Walmart regularly and I rarely see more than a couple of people inside the Sonic. 

I also tried to use the Sonic app several times at this location to no avail.

I hope it does make it though. I like the look of their buildout and I prefer Sonic to McDonalds.

----------


## Dob Hooligan

I don’t think any comparison between Sonic and McDonald’s inside WalMart could make sense to the general public. WalMart and McDonald’s both being so huge and famous for driving a “hard bargain” I think the Sonic experiment involves concepts that we mere earthlings couldn’t understand.

----------


## BBatesokc

Welp, that pilot program didn't last very long. The sonic inside the WalMart in Edmond at East 15th and I-35 has closed. The other pilot Sonic, inside a WalMart (in Muskogee) also closed a couple of months ago.

I'm not surprised at all. I actually liked the idea, but the concept was horribly managed: Rarely opened on time, wasn't connected to the Sonic app for ordering/discounts, food wasn't as good, had very young and immature employees and the new Sonic owners just weren't supportive of the concept initiated by the previous owners.

I was told there is no immediate plans for this vacant spot and that they were going to use it for the overflow of orders placed online for WalMart goods.

----------


## mugofbeer

Kind of like the Sonic at the sirport.

I'm not sure what some of the poster's expect at Sonic but it's fast food, not a steakhouse.  I would have to imagine at lunch rush they can't get enough 2 hour help.

----------


## Richard at Remax

Probably doesn't help that most of your customers are employees who probably get some sort of discount.

----------


## Pete

Layoffs yesterday and today at the Bricktown offices.

Exact numbers haven't been released.

----------


## Jersey Boss

KOCO reports of layoffs at corporate.
Layoffs announced at Sonic headquarters in Oklahoma City
https://www.koco.com/article/layoffs...-city/30727694

----------


## jn1780

> ^
> 
> They always say that 'things won't change' and they almost always do.


You called it. Glad my friend saw the writing on the wall and got out of there on their own terms.

----------


## chuck5815

Do we know if they are giving out big packages to those impacted?

----------


## Bunty

> KOCO reports of layoffs at corporate.
> Layoffs announced at Sonic headquarters in Oklahoma City
> https://www.koco.com/article/layoffs...-city/30727694


That's a downside of capitalism, buying out the competition to become bigger and more efficient.  Or if you can't compete against it, buy it.

----------


## mugofbeer

> That's a downside of capitalism, buying out the competition to become bigger and more efficient.  Or if you can't compete against it, buy it.


Inspire Brands recently bought SONIC and also owns Arby's and Buffalo WIld WIngs.  The 3 types of restaurants are not really competitors but are complimentary to each other.  Very little food offered at one restaurant is offered at the other.

It is an unfortunate result of capitalism that when efficiencies can be made within a company, layoffs can happen.  It irritates me a little that Inspire had said they would leave the SONIC HQ in OKC pretty much alone when they bought the firm but it is not efficient or a good use of your resources to have duplicate departments such as payroll, HR and accounting.

----------


## CloudDeckMedia

Three restaurant divisions shared common administrative functions, so of course there were going to be layoffs. I only wish companies would say that in advance, something like, "We will strive to maximize efficiency in this competitive environment, and in the months ahead there may be adjustments in our staffing levels." Yadda, yadda, yadda.

----------


## Pete

^

Especially because long before a merger or acquisition is made public, there has already been a lot of analysis and a detailed plan drawn.

I know, I was a management consultant and also on the corporate side of a bunch of acquisitions.

Huge investments like this aren't made without a lot of thought and a clear plan made in advance, complete with personnel projections.  There may be times when there aren't layoffs in situations like this, but I've never seen it.

----------


## corwin1968

> Inspire Brands recently bought SONIC and also owns Arby's and Buffalo WIld WIngs.  The 3 types of restaurants are not really competitors but are complimentary to each other.  Very little food offered at one restaurant is offered at the other.
> 
> It is an unfortunate result of capitalism that when efficiencies can be made within a company, layoffs can happen.  It irritates me a little that Inspire had said they would leave the SONIC HQ in OKC pretty much alone when they bought the firm but it is not efficient or a good use of your resources to have duplicate departments such as payroll, HR and accounting.


I've always received good food at ARBY's  and Buffalo Wild Wings so hopefully the new owners will restore Sonic to their former quality levels.

----------


## chuck5815

> I've always received good food at ARBY's  and Buffalo Wild Wings so hopefully the new owners will restore Sonic to their former quality levels.


Yeah, I can’t believe people still go to Sonic when you could go to Braum’s or Whataburger and get a vastly superior product. Although I’m sure WB’a new owners will manage to ruin it as well.

----------


## barrettd

> Yeah, I can’t believe people still go to Sonic when you could go to Braum’s or Whataburger and get a vastly superior product. Although I’m sure WB’a new owners will manage to ruin it as well.


My problem with Sonic has always been that it takes so long to get even something as simple as a coke. Doesn't seem to make a difference if I do the carhop service or the drive-thru, it just takes forever to get served. If the food was so much better than anything else, I could see waiting for it, but the food is definitely not worth it.

----------


## BG918

> It is an unfortunate result of capitalism that when efficiencies can be made within a company, layoffs can happen.  It irritates me a little that Inspire had said they would leave the SONIC HQ in OKC pretty much alone when they bought the firm but it is not efficient or a good use of your resources to have duplicate departments such as payroll, HR and accounting.


I think every company says that to appease the locals, very few actually follow through.

----------


## jn1780

> I think every company says that to appease the locals, very few actually follow through.


They still need their workforce happy while they carry out their corporate plans in secret.

----------


## Rover

> I think every company says that to appease the locals, very few actually follow through.


My friends in the business said that Inspire had done a pretty good job with their other acquisitions to keep the important unique parts of the headquarters intact.  But, as pointed out, they also buy because of efficiencies they can improve in basic services... supply chain, accounting, hr, etc.  The stockholders and customers will not complain as the shareholders expect companies to keep improving efficiencies and customers want prices held in check.

----------


## Pete

They had about 400 at the Bricktown HQ at the time of the buy-out; looks like they are now close to about 200.

That's a lot of well-paying jobs.

----------


## mugofbeer

> My friends in the business said that Inspire had done a pretty good job with their other acquisitions to keep the important unique parts of the headquarters intact.  But, as pointed out, they also buy because of efficiencies they can improve in basic services... supply chain, accounting, hr, etc.  The stockholders and customers will not complain as the shareholders expect companies to keep improving efficiencies and customers want prices held in check.


^^^^^
Exactly what l have seen and heard.  The restaurant concepts are complimentary and don't overlap but some HQ administrative jobs do.

----------


## Drake

Friend of mine that worked there for many years was given the option several months ago to move to Atlanta, so these weren't out of the blue. I believe he worked in the buying/supply side

He was pretty quickly able to find a comparable job here in OKC as he wasn't interested in moving to Atlanta

----------


## BBatesokc

> My problem with Sonic has always been that it takes so long to get even something as simple as a coke. Doesn't seem to make a difference if I do the carhop service or the drive-thru, it just takes forever to get served. If the food was so much better than anything else, I could see waiting for it, but the food is definitely not worth it.


I think that's definitely location dependent. We won't even go to the one in downtown OKC any longer during normal lunchtimes. It can literally take 20 minutes to get an order. Each time we are told "4 people didn't show up today" or "we are really short staffed."

That said, I go to the one in Edmond at 2nd and Bryant and get served pretty fast. 

I've cut down a lot of wait times by simply using the app. (plus it's always Happy Hour with the app).

What-A-Burger is Sonic alternative in a pinch.

----------


## jn1780

> My friends in the business said that Inspire had done a pretty good job with their other acquisitions to keep the important unique parts of the headquarters intact.  But, as pointed out, they also buy because of efficiencies they can improve in basic services... supply chain, accounting, hr, etc.  The stockholders and customers will not complain as the shareholders expect companies to keep improving efficiencies and customers want prices held in check.


I think that's pretty much every merger or buyout isnt it? The buyer can either find efficiencies to make a bigger profit or they have a large pile of cash to carry out a bigger dream. The buyer almost always thinks a company should be ran differently though.

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## Rover

> I think that's pretty much every merger or buyout isnt it? The buyer can either find efficiencies to make a bigger profit or they have a large pile of cash to carry out a bigger dream. The buyer almost always thinks a company should be ran differently though.


Increasing efficiencies doesnt always mean changing the core of the business.  Implementing purchasing programs, leveraging scale, sharing accounting, etc doesnt mean they are now a pizza company.  They also bought some core competencies they will keep in place.

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## Timshel

> Friend of mine that worked there for many years was given the option several months ago to move to Atlanta, so these weren't out of the blue. I believe he worked in the buying/supply side
> 
> He was pretty quickly able to find a comparable job here in OKC as he wasn't interested in moving to Atlanta


This is consistent from what I've heard from friends that work at Sonic. I was surprised this stayed so quiet in the lead up to last week because Inspire/Sonic seemed to do a pretty good job of letting employees know this was going to happen/there was never really an expectation internally that there wouldn't be any layoffs. From what I've heard (may not be true for everyone across the board), those that got laid off or relocation offers have until this summer before it takes effect, giving them quite a bit of time to find something else. Also sounds like some groups were hit really hard and others not much at all, and its not like the OKC office was completely gutted (though some departments may be totally going away/going to Atlanta). 

Not saying it was/is a great situation, but it sounds like Inspire handled this decently well/better than many other companies following an acquisition.

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## Brett

Saw this recommended video in my YouTube list. Not too bad when it comes to YouTube video production. I'm sure many people have more information and could tell you the "real" story.

Sonic Drive-In - The Rise and Fall...And Rise Again

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## corwin1968

From my perspective, Sonic continues it's steep, downward slide and may even be speeding up.  

For decades, I loved their cheeseburgers and would choose them over Whataburger.  Now, their burgers are just disgusting.

Yesterday, I ordered their fried chicken sandwich and it was just disgusting.   This has been the case for well over a year now, but I periodically try one in the hopes that it's improved.  Their fried chicken sandwiches used to be excellent.  And in the current market, a good fried chicken sandwich is pretty much a "must have".   I will say their "chicken slinger" is very good but it's like $2.99 for a slider size sandwich.  

I do still like their chili cheese coneys, their corn dogs and their onion rings, but those are not things I order very often.

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## shawnw

Heck I don't get why people find Whataburgers so great.

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## HangryHippo

> Heck I don't get why people find Whataburgers so great.


Blasphemer!

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## catch22

I use sonic as my snack stop. I only get their corn dogs or popcorn chicken. Might add a slush or soda. Agree food has declined

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## corwin1968

> I use sonic as my snack stop. I only get their corn dogs or popcorn chicken. Might add a slush or soda. Agree food has declined


That's mostly how I use them, as well.  Although sometimes I use them as an overflow source for ice cream when the Braums across the street has a very long line.  Their Butterfinger blast is pretty good and my wife always gets a chocolate/caramel shake.

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## Jeepnokc

I get sodas from Sonic occasionally.  If you aren't using the app....you are missing out.  1/2 price drinks all day and they run app only specials on blasts and other items like corn dogs and popcorn chicken, etc.

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## catch22

> I get sodas from Sonic occasionally.  If you aren't using the app....you are missing out.  1/2 price drinks all day and they run app only specials on blasts and other items like corn dogs and popcorn chicken, etc.


App is nice, however I don't think they actually send your order to the kitchen until you check in. Doesn't matter how far ahead I order, I am always waiting up to 10 mins to get my order when I get to the store. It's faster to just go through the drive thru.

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## Plutonic Panda

Like catch22, I too ended up just using sonic for popcorn chicken(which I’d have cravings for a few times a year) but even those have gotten to the point where they taste bad. I’ve also had a couple bad interactions with the staff during my last two experiences which led me to call corporate and convey that I’ll never eat there again. I haven’t sonic in over a year. Maybe down the road I’ll give it another shot but as of now I have no desire to do so. Sad to see an Oklahoma chain go down that road.

I am worried about the future of whataburger as the chain is launching an aggressive expansion across the country. That’s cool but I’d rather have quality over quantity. Sadly it seems many chains that expand fast lose quality control.

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## SomeGuy

Honestly new Sonic commercials are terrible. Makes me miss the two Sonic guys.

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## Bunty

> Heck I don't get why people find Whataburgers so great.


Whataburger is popular in Stillwater.  What isn't popular in Stillwater is Jack in the Box.  It just closed and is now boarded up.

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## djohn

> Honestly new Sonic commercials are terrible. Makes me miss the two Sonic guys.


Yeah, they are just AWFUL!    I can't imagine this being a successful marketing campaign.

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## Dob Hooligan

> Yeah, they are just AWFUL!    I can't imagine this being a successful marketing campaign.


What I noticed about the new ads is how much the people in them did not look like me. Then I thought about how, since the mid-1980s with Frankie Avalon, Sonic ads have featured and been aimed to people that look like me. I figure they are aiming for a new demographic and more power to them. I've been goin to Sonic for my whole life and am a loyal customer.

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## SoonerDave

> Honestly new Sonic commercials are terrible. Makes me miss the two Sonic guys.


Amen.

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## corwin1968

> Honestly new Sonic commercials are terrible. Makes me miss the two Sonic guys.


Wow.  Those Sonic guy commercials were pretty bad.  I can't imagine commercials that make those look good!

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## TheTravellers

> Wow.  Those Sonic guy commercials were pretty bad.  I can't imagine commercials that make those look good!


We don't eat at Sonic, haven't for years, and the new commercials would never make me want to try it (either for the first time or again), and yes, they're worse than the two guys.

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## Jersey Boss

The food is bad regardless of their advertising.

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## cappa

I don't think the commercials are bad lol

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## Rover

Those bad commercials were hugely successful as ad campaigns go. Sure looks like a few people liked them.

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## Pete

The Sonic/COOP hard seltzers are in liquor stores and most outlets that sell COOP beer starting today.

Oklahoma gets them first; other states will follow in August.

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## corwin1968

After years of (rightfully) criticizing Sonic's decline in burger quality, I have to give them credit for really upping their game lately, mostly on their limited time specialty sandwiches.  

They recently had a chicken slider that was every bit as good as Chik-Fil-A and I've tried several of their specialty burgers and all were excellent.  

I don't order regular burgers from Sonic.  I have gotten burned too many times, so I don't know if they've improved those as well.  I do sometimes get that Hickory sauce burger with an onion ring inside, on Texas toast, and the last two or three I've eaten were greatly improved over past versions.  

Hopefully this trend continues and Sonic goes back to being a place where you can consistently get a pretty tasty fast food meal.

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## Plutonic Panda

Some drama https://kfor.com/news/local/heir-of-...ith-bancfirst/

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