# OKCpedia > General Real Estate Topics >  Two bits of information about Best Buy and Crossroads Mall.

## megax11

First off, before the elitists think about coming in and biting my head off, because they know more and whatnot, this is only what I was told.

I will start with the Best Buy news. The new Best Buy on I-240 will be one of 22 stores in the nation, and the only one in Oklahoma, that is labled a "connected" store. What this means, is that they will be able to walk around with tablets, scan your items, and check you out, without having to wait in lines. Pretty cool, indeed.

Now for the CRM bit. I tried looking up the records on the county assessor site, but couldn't find a listing for CRM period.

Anyhow, someone told me that the chick I said who bought the mall, DID indeed buy the mall. However, her plans fell through, so she ended up selling it to two guys from out of state, who have purchased and flipped other malls.

Ironically, this person told me this, as I was driving to the store in which this person worked at and noticed something going on at JC Penney's building. At the old JCP building, I saw three semis docked at the docking bay, and three trucks parked right infront of the west JCP door, that faces the dinky community colleges.

Anyhow, this person told me that this year, Dillards entire first floor will be used as a haunted house. That should be cool if indeed true.

Back to the two guys, however. This person told me that the mall has indeed been sold, and when I asked are they trying to make it a market center or a mall, this person told me they're trying to keep it as a mall.

This person then told me that they may even hold a statewide competition where someone gets to rename the mall.

ALL OF THIS IS RUMOR, but the person I spoke to not only knew the lady I was always mentioning, but used to work at the mall recently as well, but now works at a business close to the mall.

I have no reason to call everyone liars, so it is what it is. I will believe this person for the time, until some time passes and nothing ever happens.

I just thought I'd share this info, incase it's true. So to summarize -

- Two dudes bought the mall from the chick who was going to turn it into a market center
- Looking to keep it as a mall
- Looking to hold a contest where people can choose the name of the mall
- Best Buy on I-240 will be one of 22 stores nationwide, that is a "connected store"

As for me seeing the trailers in the docking bay, as well as three pickup trucks parked on the west side of JCP, that's just that. I saw activity, but I don't know what. Not saying it has anything to do with what this person told me. Just thought it was interesting to see things happening in the old JCP building, when it's not even open.

Take this however you want.

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## Thunder

I believe you, sweetie.  CRM isn't gonna be dead anytime soon.

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## BBatesokc

I find the 'connected store' idea odd and a novelty at best. Since when has anyone waited in line at Best Buy (other than some big promoted sale or Black Friday)? I've been in that location many times and the line is usually only 0-2 customers deep. I'd think that location has less traffic than any of their other area locations. Also, I get annoyed enough when I'm in Best Buy, I don't need people asking me "You ready to check out?" Seriously, I was in the MWC location over the weekend and must have been asked 6 times if I needed anything.

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## megax11

> I find the 'connected store' idea odd and a novelty at best. Since when has anyone waited in line at Best Buy (other than some big promoted sale or Black Friday)? I've been in that location many times and the line is usually only 0-2 customers deep. I'd think that location has less traffic than any of their other area locations. Also, I get annoyed enough when I'm in Best Buy, I don't need people asking me "You ready to check out?" Seriously, I was in the MWC location over the weekend and must have been asked 6 times if I needed anything.


No idea, honestly, man. Just think it's a cool concept. Maybe it just speeds up the process.

I do agree with them hounding customers a lot, if they need help. I always feel as if they think I'm some kind of thief, and they're snooping on me, so I get a bit snooty.

Thunder, I know you'd believe me of all people. You and I seem passionate about the mall. However, this isn't news that comes out of my passion for the mall. It is just a rumor for now. I would like to see if the mall is indeed sold, through the assessor site, but I couldn't find a listing using CRM's address.

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## megax11

Or rather, Thunder, I am saying rumor to please those here who want to flip out over nothing.

I personally have no reason to think the person is lying. I never thought the person who told me the mall was sold the first time was lying. Plans change.

With that said, let's just "treat it" as a rumor, to please those who might point the finger and say "uh-uh. This and that. I'm right, you're not."

However, if someone can find info on the assessor site and post a link, that would be greatful.

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## megax11

Well, I found the listing on the Oklahoma County Assessor's site.

I don't know how to read it that well, but it looks like nothing's changed?

That doesn't mean I am going to call this person, who just recently left the mall a liar. I have no reason to judge people like that, when they're only trying to provide useful information.

I say we wait and see what happens. If his information is true, it will be cool to see the entire first floor of Dillards be a haunted house this year. That would be pretty big. As for the mall itself, if two dudes did buy it, with the intent on renovating the mall, then that would be awesome as well.

Only time will tell.

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## Martin

here's a link to the assessor's site...

-M

/edit: looks like i posted a minute too late. : ) -M

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## Thunder

Maybe it is not Dilliard's.  It could be the JCP store being converted into a major haunted attraction hence the trucks.

And the lines at the Best Buy near CRM are always long every time I go in there.  I'd wait about 15 minutes each time I want to buy something at the register.

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## Martin

i'm pretty sure that the haunted house was in the jcp property in years past... my guess is that it'll be there again this year.

the last couple times i've been to the crossroads bestbuy, it's been a ghost town... maybe that will turn around when they move to penn.

-M

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## Larry OKC

How can someone buy something from someone else if that someone else never owned it? In other words if there is no record of it ever changing hands (the sell fell through for whatever reason) and the lady never owned it, how can she turn around and sell it? IIRC, there was a story a while back that mentioned while the Feds still owned it, it was being removed from the official vacant occupancy lists for some reason or another. May be confusing it with something else, will try to dig it up and amend this post as needed.

I am not calling anyone I liar either. Just maybe they are operating on rumor or second or third or fourth hand misinformation as well.

*ON EDIT* here is the story form a month and a half ago...
http://www.istockanalyst.com/busines...roperty-survey
*Federal Reserve-owned Crossroads Mall crossed off Oklahoma City retail property survey* (_Oklahoman_, 7/9/11)



> Price Edwards & Co. took it out of its regular survey of retail property -- all 1.1 million square feet of it, counting the almost empty mall itself and two freestanding vacant buildings, former Macy's and Dillard's department stores.
> ...
> *Price Edwards continues offering the mall for sale for its owner, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.* The asking price is $6 million for the 762,532-square-foot mall. 
> ...
> Price Edwards was enlisted to market Crossroads Mall by Maiden Lane LLC, a "special purpose vehicle" created by the New York Fed in 2008 as part of the Fed-led takeover of Bear Stearns Cos. Inc. by JPMorgan Chase & Co.; Maiden Lane took on a portfolio of Bear Stearns assets that JPMorgan found too risky even while acquiring Bear Stearns at a bargain. 
> Bear Stearns, then the Fed and Maiden Lane, got Crossroads because the former mall owner, Macerich Co., had refinanced $61.2 million with Bear Stearns in 2006. The mall was a rare brick-and-mortar asset acquired by the Fed in March 2008, at an early stage of the mostly paper Wall Street bailout.


In summary, the Feds still own it, it never sold and there is no indication that it has sold since the story was written (although they do offer the glimmer of hope that it is expected to sell in the next few months).

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## Thunder

Larry, I wouldn't trust the county assessor stuff.  It wouldn't always list a sale.

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## Larry OKC

*Thunder*, think they are required by law to list all transactions (unless there is a legal exemption), it is a matter of public record. Those that have more knowledge about that kind of stuff, please correct.

I have emailed the appropriate parties for answers to my questions. Will post the response I get.

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## Steve

Larry, it's a conspiracy to hide the truth. Haven't you heard?

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## megax11

> Larry, it's a conspiracy to hide the truth. Haven't you heard?


Well, I can say that out of all the properties my parents have owned, some of the information listed on the assessor site was false or incomplete.

Not to say that's the case with this. I'm just not going to be some dork who likes to find every reason to be a pessimist or negative and call everyone out as a fraud in terms of their info.

It's just info. Let's see what happens. If something happens, cool. If nothing happens, oh well. Not like words or info, wrong or not, blows up the world.

And as for the haunted house. Maybe it is in JCP. I never knew it was in there before, but any of those locations could make for a long haunted house. That's what I always like in my haunted house ventures, because it's impossible to scare me. So to make up for it, longevity rules.

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## Larry OKC

> First off, before the elitists think about coming in and biting my head off, because they know more and whatnot, this is only what I was told....
> 
> Anyhow, someone told me that the chick I said who bought the mall, DID indeed buy the mall. However, her plans fell through, so she ended up selling it to two guys from out of state, who have purchased and flipped other malls.
> ...
> Back to the two guys, however. This person told me that the mall has indeed been sold, and when I asked are they trying to make it a market center or a mall, this person told me they're trying to keep it as a mall.
> ...
> ALL OF THIS IS RUMOR, but the person I spoke to not only knew the lady I was always mentioning, but used to work at the mall recently as well, but now works at a business close to the mall.
> 
> I just thought I'd share this info, incase it's true. So to summarize -
> ...


Please don't misread this as an attack on you. That is not the intent. But I am reading more of this second hand (or more info) with nothing to back it up. That is all people were trying to point out in previous threads. Yes, official records can be wrong and/or incomplete. As in the wrong price listed or wrong purchasing entity). No one is disputing that either. you even said it looked like nothing has changed when you did locate it on the site. But even this above post sounds like more of the same...even a working title for a sitcom (_Two Dudes a Chick and a Market Center_...and it becomes _Two Guys a Girl and a Pizza Place_).

When did the Chick buy the Mall? (everything indicates that the Feds have owned the mall since they took it over, see above post)
When did the 2 Dudes buy the Mall? Again, according to the info just a month and a half ago, the Feds still owned it.

While entertaining to read, this is more like the fodder at the checkout stand. Some of it may indeed turn out to be true. Most of it, not so much. As you concluded, "take this however you want", so why get ruffled if someone does just that?

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## Questor

Just curious megax11, are you talking about the Best Buy on I-240 at I-35, or the one at I-240 at Penn?  Am I mistaken or isn't there one over there in the strip mall near Penn as well?

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## megax11

I'm not ruffled at all. I can't vouch for others, however.

I just know that my time on the OKCtalk forums has shown me that some here can act very immature at times.

I don't care who is right or wrong in the matter. It's just rumor. Rumors can go two ways. They're either true, or they're not.

Either way, having the subject brought up incase it turns out to be true, can make for very interesting discussions later on.

As for when this chick bought the mall to begin with. The "deal" was supposed to have been finalized 2 days before (trying to recall) I posted my first topic about the marketplace.

My friend who worked for Crane Displays knew some chick named Kristi Clemens (Klemens), who is her friend, but heads up the mall currently. They all had the 411. I just relayed what some person told me, who ran a sports merch store upstairs.

Now my new info is coming from someone who works near the mall, that used to work in the mall. I asked if he was for sure the mall was sold this time, having known that plans have fell through once. He said he was sure.

Who knows, honestly. Like I said, it is what it is.

Rumors aren't a bad thing, unless it's childish rumors. If this turns out to be true. Cool. If not, oh well. This thread will be lost into the oblivion that is the OKCtalk forums dead topics or the internet in general.

As for now, I'm going to give this person the benefit of the doubt. I have no reason to call everyone liars. Any human can be wrong, even those who run the government, whose job is to keep people (?) up to date on what sold and what didn't. Likewise, the guy could be wrong as well. In the event he isn't, it would be cool to use this thread to talk about what we would like to see if this mall is to shine again.

Hell, if anything, let's just talk about the haunted house. Maybe they will use the underground tunnel full of zombies? They will need massive insurance policies to cover all of the... accidents... :P

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## megax11

> Just curious megax11, are you talking about the Best Buy on I-240 at I-35, or the one at I-240 at Penn?  Am I mistaken or isn't there one over there in the strip mall near Penn as well?


Yeah, the "connected" Best Buy will be the one opening on Penn and 240 this October. Maybe they project having lots of business in that location. Lord knows it's easier to get to, unlike the Best Buy at Crossroads.

The Crossroads location will be up for sale as soon as they open on 240 and Penn.

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## Larry OKC

Mega, again how can the 2 Dudes have bought the mall from the Chick, when it wasn't hers to sell? The deal fell through. Wasn't completed. Right?

You obviously believe this "rumor" to be true. What fact-based, verifiable basis leads you to that conclusion?

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## Questor

> Yeah, the "connected" Best Buy will be the one opening on Penn and 240 this October. Maybe they project having lots of business in that location. Lord knows it's easier to get to, unlike the Best Buy at Crossroads.
> 
> The Crossroads location will be up for sale as soon as they open on 240 and Penn.


Okay that is what I was thinking, that makes sense to me because that area seems so much busier anytime I have driven by.  I can see where the mobile checkout would be a lot more convenient for people buying _big ticket_ items.  As it is right now at Best Buy for big items you 'select' something in the (for example) PC area, have someone else go to a store room and get the actual item, then have the original dude walk you up to the front counter with the item to make sure you aren't going to steal it (LOL), then wait in line, then check out with a third person, then leave (sometimes while a fourth guy mildly accosts you for 'security reasons' on your way out).  On the flip side, when I bought an Apple a while back at the Apple Store the guy I was casually asking questions to about the product, when I said let's do it, just pulled out his iPhone and swiped my card right there, and that was it and I left.  I didn't even have to wait for a receipt because I was on file and it just emailed me automatically, and my iPhone chirped letting me know I had the receipt before I even walked out the door.  It was really nice.

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## Thunder

> Mega, again how can the 2 Dudes have bought the mall from the Chick, when it wasn't hers to sell? The deal fell through. Wasn't completed. Right?
> 
> You obviously believe this "rumor" to be true. What fact-based, verifiable basis leads you to that conclusion?


Larry, you misread.  The lady did bought the mall, but the plans to convert it into the market center fell through.  She then sold the mall to two dudes (maybe they are gay?).

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## rcjunkie

> Larry, you misread.  The lady did bought the mall, but the plans to convert it into the market center fell through.  She then sold the mall to *two dudes (maybe they are gay?).*


*
*


Why do you always feel the need in insert such BS

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## bombermwc

Thunder, that's compelte stupidity, I'm sorry. And because it's two guys, that means they're gay? The crap that comes from your mouth man.....

No "chick" and no "dudes" have bought the place. Your opinion of the assessor is totally incorrect. I have yet to see anything not posted the same week it happened. They are updating that site daily and it's correct. There may be some data entry errors every once in a while on figures or LLC names, but the sale itself is there. Crossroads does not have any sales on it. You can clearly see the last sale was in 2006. Don't misread the page for Notice of Values or non-sale documents. So unless a new owner came about through purchasing the LLC, then the same folks own it that have owned it since 2006. 

Sorry to burst the bubble, but the place is still falling into a pit of dispair.

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## easternobserver

At the risk of encouraging Thunder --- the County site is only updated after a deed is recorded (and sometimes it takes 2-3 weeks before a deed gets from the County Clerk over to the Assessor and actually gets run through the system).  Many times a deed is not recorded until well after a sale, for a number of reasons.

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## Larry OKC

> ...I have yet to see anything not posted the same week it happened. They are updating that site daily and it's correct. There may be some data entry errors every once in a while on figures or LLC names, but the sale itself is there. Crossroads does not have any sales on it. You can clearly see the last sale was in 2006. Don't misread the page for Notice of Values or non-sale documents. So unless a new owner came about through purchasing the LLC, then the same folks own it that have owned it since 2006. 
> 
> Sorry to burst the bubble, but the place is still falling into a pit of dispair.





> At the risk of encouraging Thunder --- the County site is only updated after a deed is recorded (and sometimes it takes 2-3 weeks before a deed gets from the County Clerk over to the Assessor and actually gets run through the system).  Many times a deed is not recorded until well after a sale, for a number of reasons.


I got a very rapid reply reply (have asked a follow up and will post when I get it) here is what the Assessor's office had to say...



> All property records are open to the public and accessible through our website.  *Once a new deed of ownership is Officially recorded with the County Clerks office we update our records.  An average timeline is 3-4 days upon the initial filing with the Clerks office.*
> 
> In looking at the current ownership of Crossroads Mall (4 separate account/owners) they are all private entities.  Ive included links below to each account.
> 
> ACCOUNTNO
> ACCTTYPE
> NAME1
> LINK
> 
> ...


Not really familiar with these types of records and have asked for clarification. That said, it looks like the Feds (Maiden Lane) have continuously owned the Mall itself since they acquired it. Certain tenant-owned anchor building title(s) has passed from one of their own corporate entities to another.

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## oneforone

Best Buy's move to smaller location was bound to happen sooner or later regardless of Crossroads success or failure. There is no need for electronics stores to be the giant stores they used be. The majority of electronics have shrunk in size and companies have changed packaging materials to where they can ship more merchandise per truckload. Not to mention many items have become obsolete since the 90's. I predict the next thing to leave electronics stores will be recorded media. The days of buying movies and music on individual pieces of media are about to come to an end.  That in itself is a large amount of floor space that will no longer be needed.  In the next few years people will use the internet, vending machines or kiosks inside stores. People like the idea of buying only the tracks they like not the half-baked filler that filled LP's, Cassettes, CD's for years.

Since online retail is succeeding by leaps and bounds these days, I predict Brick and Mortar stores will have to offer specialty services like delivery, install and home shipping for out of stock items.

Which makes me wonder if places like Crossroads will even have a presence 5,10,15,20 years from now. Malls and shopping centers will need to evolve into social gathering spots in order to survive. Let's face it the days of killing a day to shop for something are just about over. You can find out all you need to know by the swipe of a finger on your phone or the click of a mouse or enter key.

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## SoonerDave

> Best Buy's move to smaller location was bound to happen sooner or later regardless of Crossroads success or failure. There is no need for electronics stores to be the giant stores they used be. The majority of electronics have shrunk in size and companies have changed packaging materials to where they can ship more merchandise per truckload. Not to mention many items have become obsolete since the 90's. I predict the next thing to leave electronics stores will be recorded media. The days of buying movies and music on individual pieces of media are about to come to an end.  That in itself is a large amount of floor space that will no longer be needed.  In the next few years people will use the internet, vending machines or kiosks inside stores. People like the idea of buying only the tracks they like not the half-baked filler that filled LP's, Cassettes, CD's for years.
> 
> Since online retail is succeeding by leaps and bounds these days, I predict Brick and Mortar stores will have to offer specialty services like delivery, install and home shipping for out of stock items.
> 
> Which makes me wonder if places like Crossroads will even have a presence 5,10,15,20 years from now. Malls and shopping centers will need to evolve into social gathering spots in order to survive. Let's face it the days of killing a day to shop for something are just about over. You can find out all you need to know by the swipe of a finger on your phone or the click of a mouse or enter key.


Reality and extreme predictions like these rarely match. Yes, the basic idea of retailing changing is obviously true, but its just as silly to predict brick and mortar extinction. Reality is somewhere in the middle.

One thing to note is that as online retailers are, right or wrong, increasingly pressured to collect state sales taxes, one of the huge built-in advantages they hold will, albeit slowly, fade. Also, as brick-and-mortar stores start to reinvent themselves to reduce inventories, thereby reducing costs, they're starting to become more price competitive with their online counterparts. Bottom line - as the entire electronic shopping world matures, and the market drives conventional retailers to adapt, neither will just disappear into the night. Both will find their niches as the market demand for both shopping avenues finds its own inevitable equilibrium.

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## megax11

> Okay that is what I was thinking, that makes sense to me because that area seems so much busier anytime I have driven by.  I can see where the mobile checkout would be a lot more convenient for people buying _big ticket_ items.  As it is right now at Best Buy for big items you 'select' something in the (for example) PC area, have someone else go to a store room and get the actual item, then have the original dude walk you up to the front counter with the item to make sure you aren't going to steal it (LOL), then wait in line, then check out with a third person, then leave (sometimes while a fourth guy mildly accosts you for 'security reasons' on your way out).  On the flip side, when I bought an Apple a while back at the Apple Store the guy I was casually asking questions to about the product, when I said let's do it, just pulled out his iPhone and swiped my card right there, and that was it and I left.  I didn't even have to wait for a receipt because I was on file and it just emailed me automatically, and my iPhone chirped letting me know I had the receipt before I even walked out the door.  It was really nice.


No doubt.

I can see how it would be beneficial during the holiday shopping season as well.

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## megax11

> larry, you misread.  The lady did bought the mall, but the plans to convert it into the market center fell through.  She then sold the mall to two dudes (maybe they are gay?).


lol!

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## megax11

> I got a very rapid reply reply (have asked a follow up and will post when I get it) here is what the Assessor's office had to say...
> 
> Not really familiar with these types of records and have asked for clarification. That said, it looks like the Feds (Maiden Lane) have continuously owned the Mall itself since they acquired it. Certain tenant-owned anchor building title(s) has passed from one of their own corporate entities to another.


So none of them are this mysterious chick or two guys?

I just don't see a reason for someone who used to work at the mall, to come and tell me "two dudes" bought it, if he was lying. I mean in a lie, he could use anyone as a means to lie. He could have said "this lady named Jujube bought the mall," or "5 sailors bought the mall." However, for him to be specific on who bought the mall, hence "two guys" (I say dudes) bought the mall.

I mean when you think about it, it's pretty specific of someone to say that, when they're not on a need-to-know basis, when it comes to the happenings of CRM.

I'm not going to say it is or isn't happening. It is all rumor, which can make for good discussion until the truth is either revealed, or the mall is still stuck in oblivion.

I'm interested to learn more about this haunted house going in Dillards (JCP). I never knew one went into JCP before, like someone here mentioned. I wish I had known, so I could have gone to it.

EDIT: OH, YEAH! I remember something else he told me. The guy who gave me the info about the mall stated that one thing that will be going, is the "pepto-bismal" pink covering the rails. He called it that. How he knows all of this, who knows.

Let's say it is true. What would everyone here like to see scheme-wise, out of CRM? Any ideas for decor? How would you want it to look inside, everyone?

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## megax11

> Best Buy's move to smaller location was bound to happen sooner or later regardless of Crossroads success or failure. There is no need for electronics stores to be the giant stores they used be. The majority of electronics have shrunk in size and companies have changed packaging materials to where they can ship more merchandise per truckload. Not to mention many items have become obsolete since the 90's. I predict the next thing to leave electronics stores will be recorded media. The days of buying movies and music on individual pieces of media are about to come to an end.  That in itself is a large amount of floor space that will no longer be needed.  In the next few years people will use the internet, vending machines or kiosks inside stores. People like the idea of buying only the tracks they like not the half-baked filler that filled LP's, Cassettes, CD's for years.
> 
> Since online retail is succeeding by leaps and bounds these days, I predict Brick and Mortar stores will have to offer specialty services like delivery, install and home shipping for out of stock items.
> 
> Which makes me wonder if places like Crossroads will even have a presence 5,10,15,20 years from now. Malls and shopping centers will need to evolve into social gathering spots in order to survive. Let's face it the days of killing a day to shop for something are just about over. You can find out all you need to know by the swipe of a finger on your phone or the click of a mouse or enter key.


I "HATE" digital downloaded stuff, and refuse to support it. If everything goes digital download, then I guess I won't be buying movies/games anymore.

When you buy digital downloaded stuff, it's not really yours. You're tied down by the dreaded DRM (Digital Rights Management), which means more hassle.

If an all digital download age is upon us, I will take the hundreds of Blu Rays, DVD's, and thousands of games I own physically, and call it a day. I will fill out my backlog with whatever remains of physical movies/games, and retire.

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## kevinpate

it coulda woulda sold, but the zombies objected.  Once they chowed down on the brains of the prospective buyer's lawyers, any possibility of the deal still going through kinda sorta went south in a hurry.

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## Steve

But did the zombies get to the "two dudes and a girl"?

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## Skyline

Lol, I wondered when the Zombies would make their entrance. 

I love reading threads like this. 

megax11 and Thunder need their own daily blog.

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## Thunder

> megax11 and Thunder need their own daily blog.


Why would you want to follow our private lives?  If you want to...beware...you're in for a scare!

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## megax11

> Why would you want to follow our private lives?  If you want to...beware...you're in for a scare!


Indeed. *puts pinky to mouth* MWAHAHAHA!

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## Larry OKC

> So none of them are this mysterious chick or two guys?


As you pointed out yourself, nothing has changed. That is my understanding of it as well from looking at the site. I asked for a straightforward answer and this was the reply (he tried, obviously he isn't aware that Maiden Lane LLC is an entity of the Feds ownership)



> *Q*. Since the feds took over ownership (through the Maiden Lane LLC), has the Mall itself (it is my understanding that anchor tenant buildings are often owned by the tenant, such as Dillards or Wards would own their own building), been sold to another non-Fed entity in say the past year?





> *A*. All I see on the accounts are private ownership, no federal agency.  Dillard’s is the only anchor tenant that owns property, the others are all private.  I’ve listed the dates for each account to show how long each current owner has owned the property under that entity.  You can review the ownership history for each account on-line as well.  If there has been a more recent sale of the properties then it is not official unless the deed is recorded with the County Clerk’s office.


Presume the ones he is mentioning are those I posted in his first reply back in post #25. However, the ones he listed appear to be for the anchor buildings and not the mall itself.

1) Steve & Barry's (formerly Wards): Maiden Lane LLC (the Fed entity) receiving the deed from the previous owner in June of 2009. 


2) Macy's/Folley's: the various transfer of deeds from one corporate division to another, most recently in Jan of 2010.

3) Dillard's: unchanged since Feb of 1996

4) JCPenney: Maiden Lane LLC (the Fed entity) receiving the deed from the previous owner in June of 2009.




> I just don't see a reason for someone who used to work at the mall, to come and tell me "two dudes" bought it, if he was lying. I mean in a lie, he could use anyone as a means to lie. He could have said "this lady named Jujube bought the mall," or "5 sailors bought the mall." However, for him to be specific on who bought the mall, hence "two guys" (I say dudes) bought the mall.


Again, I am not saying the person or persons that you keep talking to are lying (at least not intentionally). They may honestly believe it themselves. What it looks like is they are repeating rumors too.

*When did the lady supposedly buy the Mall?*

*When did the 2 guys supposedly buy the Mall?*

*Where is the reliable, verifiable source indicating any of that is the case?*

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## Steve

Step 1: Anonymous person comes onto an online forum, claims he has inside scoop on mall selling, says county assessor, competing local newspapers, television stations all conspiring with federal government to keep the sale quiet until redevelopment is started. Cites anonymous people as sources.
Step 2: Months pass. Same anonymous person says redevelopment effort fell apart, but a sale REALLY DID take place. Says conspiracy to hide both the first sale, and now a second sale by "the chick" to "two dudes" are still being concealed by this massive conspiracy involving county, federal government, local media.
Step 3: Anonymous person knows that there may be questions about his or her credibility - questions by cynical, mean "elitists" on OKC Talk (like myself?). Anonymous person says _"I just don't see a reason for someone who used to work at the mall, to come and tell me 'two dudes' bought it, if he was lying. I mean in a lie, he could use anyone as a means to lie. He could have said 'this lady named Jujube bought the mall,' or "5 sailors bought the mall.' However, for him to be specific on who bought the mall, hence 'two guys' (I say dudes) bought the mall."
_
Megax, whoever you are, I don't think anyone has lied to you. I do think someone is telling lies. Gotta love the Internet, where anyone can type anything with their keyboard and get people to give them much craved attention.

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## megax11

Sigh, okay I will spill it.

I went to Best Buy Crossroads the other day. I was there buying some blank DL Discs.

An employee there mentioned the new store opens in October (already knew that part), and said it would be one of 22 stores in the nation to be "connected."

I mentioned Crossroads Mall for some reason, and he then told me the mall was bought by 2 guys who have bought and flipped malls before. I asked if the two guys intended to keep it as a mall or market center, he said mall.

I said it was once going to be a market center, through some lady who had supposedly bought the mall. The guy cuts me off, saying "yeah, she couldn't get plans off the ground, so she sold it to these two guys."

I asked if he was sure, because the assessor site stated it had never been sold. He said he was sure. He then said, "There is even supposed to be a statewide contest to rename the mall."

I said cool. He mentioned the haunted house going into Dillards, I said cool. I said there are three pickups and three semis parked at JCP, with the semis actually connected to the docking bay. He said cool.

So, Steve, this guy wasn't on the net. Usually trolls like to pull this kind of stupid crap on the net, but this person worked at Best Buy.

I never get any info off the net, because I generally tend to not believe it. Everything I come here with info about, is given to me in my face, by people not masking themselves behind keyboards.

Larry, that's all the info I can give. I can give a guestimate on when this chick supposedly bought the mall. Look up my old "Crossroads is dead my friend, blah-blah-blah" thread. I posted that the night I was told. The lady in the sporting goods store by Spencers told me the deal was signed in blood (as she put it) just the day before.

As for the two guys. That was news to me when this Best Buy employee told me, who happened to be working at the mall recently before switching jobs.

I will also add this. I failed to do so after I was told 2 months ago, because I don't know what to believe anymore.

A guy comes and makes payments at my parents' carlot. He worked for Gamestop Crossroads. He told me Dillards was going back in (just like other people had said). He then told me something I never heard before. He said JCP was going back in their old building.

I mentioned to him, the market center. He said that wasn't happening anymore. He said the mall was going to be bought by some people, with the intent on keeping it a mall.

That's why I believed the guy at Best Buy. Their stories are almost identical. Both worked in the mall, but at different stores. Now I see semis and trucks flocking JCP's west entrance and dock.

Who knows. I'm about ready to throw myself down to those zombies, and become zombie snacks, because peeps keep getting my hopes up.

Who wants my stereo when I become zombie food?

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## SkyWestOKC

Regardless of who talked to you, maybe they were misinformed, heard a rumor that wasn't true, or whatever reason. They may not be lying to you, because they don't know for sure. Just repeating what they had heard.

The facts are on the assessor website. Things of this magnitude do not sell with no paperwork being filed. An old lawnmower on craigslist would sell without any paperwork, but not a huge portion of land with a huge contiguous building, and that is owned by the government. Anything to do with any of those 3 have a lot of paperwork, not to mention a combination of the three.

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## Larry OKC

> ...A guy comes and makes payments at my parents' carlot. He worked for Gamestop Crossroads. He told me Dillards was going back in (just like other people had said). He then told me something I never heard before. He said JCP was going back in their old building. ...


Don't know what is happening at the former JCPenney, but it seems unlikely they would be moving back (unless it was some sort of outlet situation as was rumored to be happening with the Dillard's space a few months ago). Why?

1. JCPenney relocated to two new stores, both 6 miles from Crossroads (according to an article posted by Pete over in another thread: http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...7492#post97492)

2. The Crossroads store closed in 2007 and these 2 new stores opened about 2 weeks later. "The official grand openings for the new JCPenney stores will take place on Friday, Aug. 3, marked by simultaneous ribbon cutting ceremonies at each stores main entrance at a special opening time of 7:45 a.m., in honor of Oklahomas first tax-free sales event." Being relatively new, would imagine they have long term leases or own the buildings.

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## Thunder

I believe you.  Don't worry about Steve.  He's from Joklahoman. lol

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## Steve

Thunder, sorry I didn't ask you for approval of my comment in advance. But then again I don't worry about you much either.
Megax, I really appreciate your response this time. It allows me to get a better understanding of where you're coming from, and I think I can help you see why these things get so easily confused.
All too often there's confusion between having a contract to buy a building vs. closing on that contract, and having a "letter of intent" to lease a space vs. an actual lease. In the development world these situations are often misstated rather casually because those having such conversations generally understand the nuance of it all. So a person might tell another person he has bought a property, when in fact he only has a contract. Often these contracts go through, and the sale actually takes place. But sometimes they don't.
Case in point: Chris Johnson, owner of USA Screen Printing, represented himself as the buyer of the key corner lot on the Bricktown Canal when he went to the Bricktown Urban Design Committee. In fact he only had a contract. When he met resistance, he dropped out of the contract and it was then that it was fully understood he hadn't closed (he ended up reviving the contract and closing a couple of weeks later).
So with all this in mind, I do know the woman with the wholesale mart you spoke about earlier did have either a contract or was negotiating a contract to buy the mall. That contract didn't close. No sale.
It is entirely possible, as you say, that there could be a new entity trying to buy Crossroads with the intent of reviving it, though as others have said, it's more likely to see a J.C. Penney outlet, etc., than full fledged stores again. I apologize for the harshness of my comment, but please understand, I take offense to the idea that I or others have somehow purposely kept a transaction like this a secret (as inferred in the last thread on Crossroads).

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## megax11

I just want CRM back.

I keep having odd dreams, where I keep seeing it with a fresh look inside, 5 different times, 5 different locations.

Not to say my dreams mean anything when it comes to this mall anymore, but it has an old-school CRM feel, in that it has a brown color scheme going, but it's brightness is through a ton of neon lights. It felt old-schoolish, but modern.

Last dream I had, about a month ago or less, I was inside the mall during Christmas. They had it decorated differently than all the years that have gone by.

Again, nothing to make a big fuss over. Maybe it's just dreams stemming from the fact I miss the mall a lot.

All I know, is everytime people keep telling me these new rumors and they're following other past employees stories to a T, it's like I become a kid in a candy store.

You would figure that the mall is a sore spot in the city at this time, and the city would want to do something about it. Heck, turn that puppy into another outlet mall. I think for now on, I'm gonna chill, until something more concrete happens with the dealings of this mall.

I'm still interested in learning more about any potential haunted house that the mall gets this year.

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## Steve

I understand.
Favorite memories - going to Farrell's ice cream and then going to the Lemans? racetrack nearby for my birthday. Walking through the mall when it was the only BIG mall in town, just gazing in awe at how big it was. Seeing Dannysday in the food court area. Orange Julius (is that still there?).
So yeah, Megax in this respect I completely understand where you're coming from.

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## Larry OKC

*megax11*; I want CRM to revive somehow too and appreciate your passion for it. Wanting to believe anything that would feed into that hope/desire (so much it works into your dreams) and frustrated when those things don't pan out. Peace.

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## anniemae

> *megax11*; I want CRM to revive somehow too and appreciate your passion for it. Wanting to believe anything that would feed into that hope/desire (so much it works into your dreams) and frustrated when those things don't pan out. Peace.


Me too!

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## mikesimpsons82

> I predict the next thing to leave electronics stores will be recorded media.


Well I predict Oklahoma will fall into the Pacific Ocean in the next 10 years.  Your's has about as much a chance as happening as mine.

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## jn1780

> Well I predict Oklahoma will fall into the Pacific Ocean in the next 10 years.  Your's has about as much a chance as happening as mine.


I don't think Oneforone means all recordable media will disappear based on this comment.




> In the next few years people will use the internet,* vending machines or kiosks inside stores.* People like the idea of buying only the tracks they like not the half-baked filler that filled LP's, Cassettes, CD's for years.


Sure, I can see that happening, its already happening to Blockbuster. I definitely see DVDs gone(no longer produced) in 10 years as the industry completely transitions to Blue-ray with something smaller and better just around the horizon. Music? Yeah, that will be completely digital in a decade. 

Solid state memory continues to get faster and bigger.  I can envision there being kiosks that are connected to super fast internet. People would take their memory cards to these kiosks and download their movies. A record of them owning the movie would be in the database in case they lost or deleted their movie.   

I see Walmart, Target, Costco and internet eating what remains of the traditional recordable media market.

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## kevinpate

> 2) Macy's/Folley's: the various transfer of deeds from one corporate division to another, most recently in Jan of 2010.


This one surprised me.  I thought I recalled a DOK article from 09 or 10 that a local developer had purchased the Macy/Foley wing w/ an intent to convert to office space.  Maybe mega isn't the only one having dreams, but dang that seems stuck in my mind for whatever reason.

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## Larry OKC

*kevinpate*: don't recall seeing that but ain't saying you are wrong either. Often the things that get stuck up there, do so for a reason (at least in my case, your mileage may vary). May be off on the particulars, but I didn't imagine it. In any case, may have been one of those announced plans that make it into print and then something happened and that deal fell though too so the 'sale" never got recorded, transfer never made. We have seen similar things happen before.

*on edit*: if you were dreaming it, you were doing it back in Feb of last year too when you posted this in another thread recently revived:



> Appears the chap who purchased the Macy wing of the mall complex got the first half nailed.  What he does with it will determine whether he also meets the second half of the above.


*on edit edit:*
Good news, your sanity is intact (well, at least as far as this is concerned)!
Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-man-...#ixzz1WLnV12D0
*Oklahoma City man purchases Macy’s property* (_Oklahoman_, 1/19/2010)



> Oklahoma City developer Richard Tanenbaum has bought the former Macy’s Department Store at Crossroads Mall. ... He said he bought it to hold for an investment but that it eventually could be converted to office space, a call center or other nonretail use.


Not sure why it isn't reflected in the Assessor records (if I was reading them correctly). So maybe it fell through at the last minute and the deal was never finalized?

This all got me thinking and I vaguely recall reading something that happened after the Arkansas investors bought the mall and think it was after the Feds took it over saying that they had bought the mall for dirt cheap and were going to flip it, asking for at least double what they paid. But can't locate it now and may have been out parcels instead of the mall itself...

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## flintysooner

> Oklahoma City developer Richard Tanenbaum has bought the former Macy’s Department Store at Crossroads Mall.
> 
> Tanenbaum’s Crossroads 150/LLC paid the chain $1.5 million for the 151,000-square-foot parcel on 14 acres in a transaction not related to the disposition of the main mall property, which remains for sale for $24 million by Maiden Lane LLC , an entity of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York .


Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-man-...#ixzz1WLoiF5Rf

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## Soonerman

Hmm Last time I was in that area I noticed the old Macy's store had a for sale sign on it and this was in July.

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## Rover

> Best Buy's move to smaller location was bound to happen sooner or later regardless of Crossroads success or failure. There is no need for electronics stores to be the giant stores they used be. The majority of electronics have shrunk in size and companies have changed packaging materials to where they can ship more merchandise per truckload. Not to mention many items have become obsolete since the 90's. I predict the next thing to leave electronics stores will be recorded media. The days of buying movies and music on individual pieces of media are about to come to an end.  That in itself is a large amount of floor space that will no longer be needed.  In the next few years people will use the internet, vending machines or kiosks inside stores. People like the idea of buying only the tracks they like not the half-baked filler that filled LP's, Cassettes, CD's for years.
> 
> Since online retail is succeeding by leaps and bounds these days, I predict Brick and Mortar stores will have to offer specialty services like delivery, install and home shipping for out of stock items.
> 
> Which makes me wonder if places like Crossroads will even have a presence 5,10,15,20 years from now. Malls and shopping centers will need to evolve into social gathering spots in order to survive. Let's face it the days of killing a day to shop for something are just about over. You can find out all you need to know by the swipe of a finger on your phone or the click of a mouse or enter key.


This concept of online eliminating live retail already failed during the last dot com.  Internet companies have continuously overestimated their impact on killing traditional shopping.  That isn't to say that retailing isn't evolving, but look for more and more interrelationship between the live experience and the online one.  People will always like to touch, try on, taste and see merchandise to help form opinions on a buy.  Commodity items with standard measurements may be bought online, but the live experience will always be important for many many things.  WebEx will never replace face to face business meetings.  .com will never kill live retail.

As for Crossroads, it is no longer an appealing place to be and looks tired and dated. Too many other choices of places to shop.  As a destination it creates no excitement.

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## CuatrodeMayo

> People will always like to touch, try on, taste and see merchandise


That's the point; you can't do that with media so the "retail experience" really doesn't exist in that sense.

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## SuperK

Hello!

I would like to come forward and clear up some things regarding Crossroads Mall!!!

First of all, the lower level of the former JC Penny building has been leased to a company that will have an awesome haunted house open from October 1-31!!!

Second,  the mall has not changed ownership in 3 years.  No one has bought the mall and flipped it or anything like that.  Don't you guys think that something as large as Crossroads Mall selling would make at least the business section of the newspaper???  When Crossroads Mall sells you will know it...I PROMISE!!!   :Smile:

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## Steve

> Hello!
> 
> Second,  the mall has not changed ownership in 3 years.  No one has bought the mall and flipped it or anything like that.  Don't you guys think that something as large as Crossroads Mall selling would make at least the business section of the newspaper???  When Crossroads Mall sells you will know it...I PROMISE!!!


 What's sad is that this question must be asked...  *YES, IT WOULD MAKE THE BUSINESS SECTION AND FRONT PAGE*

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## megax11

> Hello!
> 
> I would like to come forward and clear up some things regarding Crossroads Mall!!!
> 
> First of all, the lower level of the former JC Penny building has been leased to a company that will have an awesome haunted house open from October 1-31!!!
> 
> Second,  the mall has not changed ownership in 3 years.  No one has bought the mall and flipped it or anything like that.  Don't you guys think that something as large as Crossroads Mall selling would make at least the business section of the newspaper???  When Crossroads Mall sells you will know it...I PROMISE!!!


Cool to know. Thanks for the info.

I wasn't saying someone already bought and flipped it, but that someone had bought it and intended to flip and keep it a mall, which I am now not saying is happening.

Cool to know about the haunted house. I will be there. I hope it is a long one.

As for the Macy's sell, that sucks if true, because I don't want to see any part of that mall become non-retail use.

Southside OKC shouldn't be home to an endless amount of business schools, carlots, government offices, and a call center.

I hope the Macy's thing is a lie, or I hope he saves it as an investment for future sellthrough, should the mall rise from the ashes.

EDIT: Nevermind. I see that the article about Macy's was old. Thanks for clearing that up, Larry. My statements about southside still stand.

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## Thunder

Who want to take me to the haunted house on the 17th for my B-day? How about a massive OKCTalk group field trip with me?  After all, everyone on here is the only family I have left.  I rarely see dad and I don't have contact with his family side.  Ex-mom and I rarely social with her family side other than Thanksgiving and Christmas, so we basically had just each other.  Since I disowned her... Anyone want to make me feel alive?  lol

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## Larry OKC

I suppose going to the Land of the Zombies (and the Haunted House) would make you feel alive...LOL

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## Thunder

> I suppose going to the Land of the Zombies (and the Haunted House) would make you feel alive...LOL


I guess so.  I can't remember the last time I have been to a haunted house.

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## cas

There are employees in the mall that are telling this same story.  I went to the Finish Line this past weekend to get my son some shoes.  I asked the employee what was going to happen there at the mall.  She said they just sold the mall to a new owner who was going to bring a bunch of stores back.  She also said Dillards was coming back.  She stated they just signed a new lease for another year.  I have no idea where her information is coming from, but that is what she is telling customers.  I have found no facts to back up her claim.  I grew up as a kid going to that mall and it's sad to see where it is today.

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## oneforone

I just don't see them being very successful at bringing stores back to Crossroads.  Most retailers will likely choose Moore, Norman Midwest City, West OKC near the new outlet mall or I-240 before moving into Crossroads.  No retailer is going to want to move to a location that is hidden from interstate traffic. Trying to bring Crossroads back to life at this point would be throwing good money away after bad. The only reason why the remaining few retailers are there is because they are still making enough money to pay the bills and make a reasonable profit or the location is a franchise.

I think the best they could do with Crossroads at this point is a mixed use industrial and business park. The days of being a retail destination are pretty much over for Crossroads.

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## Soonerman

> There are employees in the mall that are telling this same story.  I went to the Finish Line this past weekend to get my son some shoes.  I asked the employee what was going to happen there at the mall.  She said they just sold the mall to a new owner who was going to bring a bunch of stores back.  She also said Dillards was coming back.  She stated they just signed a new lease for another year.  I have no idea where her information is coming from, but that is what she is telling customers.  I have found no facts to back up her claim.  I grew up as a kid going to that mall and it's sad to see where it is today.


My friend who works for Dillards said They are talking about going back to Crossroads Mall. However it will be a Clearance Center store if they open back up there.

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## Thunder

The retail days at CRM is far from over.  Smart retailers will move into that mall.  Well, they just need to be smart about moving into a mall.  

(pssst) PSM and QSM are away from the major interstates.

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## BrettM2

> The retail days at CRM is far from over.  Smart retailers will move into that mall.  Well, they just need to be smart about moving into a mall.  
> 
> (pssst) PSM and QSM are away from the major interstates.


PSM is directly off I-44, just a mile or two from I-235.  QSM is right off the Turnpike, and about halfway between Broadway Extension and Hefner Parkway.  Neither is off the beaten path.

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## Thunder

> PSM is directly off I-44, just a mile or two from I-235.  QSM is right off the Turnpike, and about halfway between Broadway Extension and Hefner Parkway.  Neither is off the beaten path.


CRM is right next to I35 and I240. :-)

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## BrettM2

> CRM is right next to I35 and I240. :-)


With absolutely horrible on and off ramps to get to it.  I used to go there all the time when I was in high school and remember well how difficult it could be.

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## Thunder

It is real easy for me.

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## Larry OKC

Guys, the original post was about visibility more than access (though if ya don't know what you are doing can be a discouragement), the ongoing construction hasn't helped either. One of the things that made it successful for decades was it was located at the Crossroads (thus the name). It was new and one of the largest malls at the time. High visibilty before all of the out parcels were built, hiding it from view. PSM and QSM are both still highly visible. mainly because the turnpike & interstates that go by them are elevated. I-35 and I-240 in that area are at grade. Unless you are Wal-mart, can't have anything hiding it from view, out of sight out of mind. Maybe Wal-mart needs to put in a major Supercenter there but they already have relatively new ones within close distance. Not that Wal-mart is adverse to relocating their stores, they do it often. If you build a Wal-mart, they will come. Been proven all over the city time and again.

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## Steve

"two dudes ..."
I am now cracking up.... yes, yes, sure enough.... Megax, be sure to read The Oklahoman in the morning. The "conspiracy" is over...

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## megax11

> "two dudes ..."
> I am now cracking up.... yes, yes, sure enough....


Two "dudes" was my call. I could have said two guys, or outstanding gentlemen, but where's the fun in that?

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## Steve

megax, I'm laughing because in your own way, you got it right. The story should be posting at NewsOk shortly... but you deserve an early notice of it: Crossroads has indeed been sold ... to "two dudes," as you say - Michael Dillard and Roddy Bates. I'll let Richard Mize unravel the rest of the story....

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## Thunder

> megax, I'm laughing because in your own way, you got it right. The story should be posting at NewsOk shortly... but you deserve an early notice of it: Crossroads has indeed been sold ... to "two dudes," as you say - Michael Dillard and Roddy Bates. I'll let Richard Mize unravel the rest of the story....


LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve, remind me to give you a frickin' hug whenever we meet face-to-face. LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

How is everyone here feeling now?  LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^5 Mega guy, you did it and I believed in you when everyone else dissed ya to the dump.

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## ljbab728

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-rap...ad_story_title

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## Larry OKC

> megax, I'm laughing because in your own way, you got it right. The story should be posting at NewsOk shortly... but you deserve an early notice of it: Crossroads has indeed been sold ... to "two dudes," as you say - Michael Dillard and Roddy Bates. I'll let Richard Mize unravel the rest of the story....


Thanks to *Megax11*'s insistence & *Steve*'s "heads up", here it is:
Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-rap...#ixzz1XtfUSxym



> Local investors bought Crossroads Mall on Tuesday in a deal that will surprise people who assumed it was doomed: They plan to keep it open as a mall.
> 
> Mike Dillard and Roddy Bates, owners of Raptor Properties LLC, paid $3.5 million... As recently as June, the asking price for the 762,532-square-foot property was $6 million, one-fourth the $24 million asked when the mall property, which then included other space that has since sold, landed among Price Edwards & Co.'s retail listings in summer 2009.
> 
> Raptor Properties acquired the main mall building with 383,784 square feet; the former J.C. Penney store, 198,358 square feet; the former Steve & Barry's, 157,000 square feet; and the former Ward's Automotive, 23,390 square feet. Several other former Crossroads properties previously sold to other investors.


Now all we need is confirmation from the County Assessor's site to show that the deal hasn't fallen through at the last minute and the property has indeed (no pun intended) changed hands...

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## Thunder

Great work, Steve.

I am truly happy that Crossroads Mall will revive and be back!  Its going to be the hottest place in town!  Who cares about outdoor shopping strips.  Majority of people still love shopping multiple places in a climate controlled building.  Now the key is advertisement.  The word needs to be out there to remind the people that Crossroads Mall is not dead and that its up to them to be smart by continuing to shop at businesses there.  

Next year's Christmas will have this place packed while Penn Square Mall watch in disbelief.  :LolLolLolLol: 

People will start to notice parking spaces easily available at Penn Square Mall and Quail Spring Mall. LOL!

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## jn1780

It's nice that someone bought it. But, there going to have to say something a little bit more then just "were going to give the mall some TLC and attract new businesses" for me to get excited. I don't usually associate TLC with major improvements.

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## megax11

Thanks, guys.

I just saw it on news9 this morning. It makes me happy. Now we can talk about what we want to see in the mall. If these new owners play their cards right, some good things can come out of this.

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I just want to speculate based on my dream. I'm only talking cosmetic, but maybe you guys can give your opinions on how you want it to look inside.

In my dreams, I have seen the mall in two different renovated styles.

The first one had white flooring with small green diamonds inbetween every 4 tiles. Green pillars divided each store. Both white and green had marble.

The second one, and I've started having dreams seeing it look this way more, still had a brown look. I keep seeing very bright neon, however. While brown in look, it still had a very modern feel.

Not that I'm saying my dreams will peg exactly how it looks, but my dreams have been known to come true more often than not.

How do YOU GUYS want it to look inside, if they indeed renovate?

Anyhow, good times ahead hopefully for the city. The more this city blooms, the better.

----------


## megax11

Oh, and I wanted to add that the credit isn't all mine. The guy at Best Buy was obviously right. I'm just glad he was right.

I wanted to add to my above post, in saying that I hope to god people at the businesses around the mall get out of dodge. Having business colleges next to the mall doesn't help anything. My friends at Toys R Us will be happy to know this, as at one time they were wanting to move to Moore, but decided to stay put. Maybe they will have more traffic now.

The empty jacked up parking lots near the mall should be sold off to anyone wanting to build small plazas for more retail use.

This is all hopes anyhow. If the city helps, as these two new owners want them to, or if others see what's happening, here's hoping lots of good stuff happens to the mall and its surrounding areas.

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## Charlie40

I would be all for remodeling the mall back to the way it looked when it opend in the 70's it was so cool looking in there then.

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## MrZ

Get rid of all the ghetto stores and hire a lot more security guards would be the first step to bringing Crossroads back to life. Not feeling safe and secure is one of the things that I think really drove people from Crossroads to other malls. A loooong way to go to even begin to bring that mall back to somewhere that would attract people who don't live within a few miles of it.

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## megax11

I agree. They need to get rid of all the stupid convienant stores inside the mall. If they're in a booth, fine. However, I see some of the worst style of stores for a mall, in the actual units.

They need to try and entice Dillards to come back, not as a clearance store, but as a normal Dillards store.

If I were these two guys, who obviously had the money to buy the mall, I would do this in this order -

1: Not be cheap about fixing up the mall.

2: Before fixing up Crossroads, I would sell the idea back to stores that left (anchors). I would ask them what it would take for them to come back. Tell them the plan is to lower rent and nickel and dime every store like previous owners did, without listening to their needs.

3: If I can get Penney's, Dillards, and Macy's back, I would then take the Steve and Barry's location, destroy it, and ask AMC theatres if they would like to build a movie theatre in that spot. This way the mall has a theatre built in.

4: With those people back on the list, I would start renovating the mall. Based on my dreams, personally, I would go with a lighter color. The White and green marble look. Brighten up the mall. However, any renovation to modernize is better than none.

Also in modernizing the mall on the inside, I would modernize it on the outside.

5: I would make the middle of the mall the food court. OR, I would put the eateries near the theatre if I could get one in the old Wards/Barry's location. Keep the eateries together.

6: I would get more security, although even Penn Square Mall has seen its share of rapes, murders, and robberies.

7: I would tell the small mom and pops stores to get booths for the middle of the mall, or just leave. No offense, but in bringing something back to life, Hollister wins over a convienance store.

8: I would try and get stores that are popular in other malls. For teens or adults like me who wear it, I would try and lure Buckle, Hollister, Abercrombie, etc. I would try and get back Candyopolis (sp). Spencers, I would like to see come back. Mall already has a Victoria's Secret and Gamestop.

These are some ideas. However, if these new owners want to hit the home run, they have to first and foremost, NOT BE CHEAPSKATES! They have to please the merchants and do some serious butt kissing to get anchors back. I wouldn't go for 4 anchors, because if I owned the mall, I would like to see a movie theatre inside, to streamline the surrounding area. Plus the AMC Crossroads (formerly Regal) is looking a bit dated.

Now then, the surrounding areas. If this is all successful, I would start fixing up the parking lot around the mall. The areas where the parking lot is jacked up further out, I would repave those and get some small plazas built in hopes of trying to lure something other than business colleges.

If those are successful and the money starts piling in, I would then make an offer to the business colleges for their buildings. If they agree, I give them the cash and send them on their merry way. AHA, here is the kicker. I wouldn't shape those buildings into new retail. I would doze it all. I am talking about the former Best Buy (not the one that's currently open near CRM) which is now a business school, and all of the buildings next to it.

What purpose does this serve? This would make it so people can see the mall from I-35. People always say the mall not being able to be seen is a bad thing, so make it visible.

Texas Roadhouse can stay, since it still looks in good shape.

----------


## Martin

> 3: If I can get Penney's, Dillards, and Macy's back, I would then take the Steve and Barry's location, destroy it, and ask AMC theatres if they would like to build a movie theatre in that spot. This way the mall has a theatre built in.


while i'm skeptical on crossroad's ability to make a rebound, i agree that getting anchors would be a wise first step. it'd be a longshot but dillards and macy's could maybe make a return if given the proper incentive. however, a jc penney in crossroads would compete against newer locations already a short distance away in both moore and midwest city. as for theatres, i'm pretty certain regal cinema is struggling. with destination cinemas such as warren just a few miles south and (to a lesser degree) harkins just a few miles north, i don't see how a new theatre attached to crossroads would be seen as a good risk.

-M

----------


## megax11

> while i'm skeptical on crossroad's ability to make a rebound, i agree that getting anchors would be a wise first step. it'd be a longshot but dillards and macy's could maybe make a return if given the proper incentive. however, a jc penney in crossroads would compete against newer locations already a short distance away in both moore and midwest city. as for theatres, i'm pretty certain regal cinema is struggling. with destination cinemas such as warren just a few miles south and (to a lesser degree) harkins just a few miles north, i don't see how a new theatre attached to crossroads would be seen as a good risk.
> 
> -M


Well for the movie theatre aspect, I think of it like this. Hollywood Spotlight 14 is still alive and kicking in Norman, despite being about the same distance from Warren, as CRM is from Warren.

AMC runs AMC 24 in Quail Springs. They could simply make a nice theatre for Crossroads. AMC runs Regal 16 now, near Crossroads, not Regal. They're long gone. So it would be AMC.

Anyhow, I remember when Warren was sold out for the latest Harry Potter. People were going to AMC 16 Crossroads. I also remember at a certain time of the day, ALL of Moore lost power, so people got turned away in buying Harry Potter tickets. So again, they went to AMC Crossroads 16.

This means business can still be had, but if AMC were to even put in one of their bootleg IMAX's, despite Warren having a real one just a ways away, people would still go for various other reasons. Some may just not like the cramped nature of Moore. It does feel really cramped.

People could furthermore, enjoy some shopping at the mall, before heading to the theatre to see a flick.

Just an idea, but having a theatre built onto the mall, instead of outside, could help the malls image in being more modern.

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## kevinpate

> Get rid of all the ghetto stores and hire a lot more security guards would be the first step to bringing Crossroads back to life. Not feeling safe and secure is one of the things that I think really drove people from Crossroads to other malls. A loooong way to go to even begin to bring that mall back to somewhere that would attract people who don't live within a few miles of it.


bleh, you're at less risk at CR than a northside mall,  You're also more bored and have far less selection, but your risk is not greater at CR.

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## Larry OKC

As far as looks go, hard to lose with classy (marble) or even Retro and I love neon. The challenge to any of it is having DEEP pockets to pull it off. They got it for a surprisingly low amount. As *mmm*  pointed out getting former anchors back doesn't seem realistic if they have built/relocated nearby (probably either owning or long term leases). Unless they open a store somehow related (like the rumored Clearance Dillards or outlet mall types). The outlet type seems to be the most promising right now if they can latch on to the coat tails of the success of the other one. That one is maxed out and and a retailer that was wanted to move quickly could renovate and get opened before an expansion could get built out there. Plus any expansion would probably have to be a certain amount pre-leased before they would begin construction where this could be done 1 by 1.

Crossroads was destination shopping when it was built, IIRC, it was the 8th largest mall in the country. Bring back the types of businesses that were there that we fondly remember.

----------


## Thunder

> Get rid of all the ghetto stores and hire a lot more security guards would be the first step to bringing Crossroads back to life. Not feeling safe and secure is one of the things that I think really drove people from Crossroads to other malls. A loooong way to go to even begin to bring that mall back to somewhere that would attract people who don't live within a few miles of it.


I strongly disagree with this ill-informed statement.  Crossroads Mall is extremely safe.  I feel safe going there, so does many people.  Lets look at Penn Square Mall where thousands of people flock to the mall knowing there is a high crime rate and that it could potentially happen to them.  *yawnz*

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## Thunder

> As far as looks go, hard to lose with classy (marble) or even Retro and I love neon. The challenge to any of it is having DEEP pockets to pull it off. They got it for a surprisingly low amount. As *mmm*  pointed out getting former anchors back doesn't seem realistic if they have built/relocated nearby (probably either owning or long term leases). Unless they open a store somehow related (like the rumored Clearance Dillards or outlet mall types). The outlet type seems to be the most promising right now if they can latch on to the coat tails of the success of the other one. That one is maxed out and and a retailer that was wanted to move quickly could renovate and get opened before an expansion could get built out there. Plus any expansion would probably have to be a certain amount pre-leased before they would begin construction where this could be done 1 by 1.
> 
> Crossroads was destination shopping when it was built, IIRC, it was the 8th largest mall in the country. Bring back the types of businesses that were there that we fondly remember.


LoL?! 

Look at Walmart.  There are so many of them in close proximity. So what?  Dillard's and JCPenney can have some stores being in close proximity.  Remember, its always smart to cover as much bases possible.  Who cares about stores competing against each other?  They are under the same company!  Having more stores spread out will bring in more money for the company overall, because there would be a store that is nearby that people would go there to shop.  For example, someone in South OKC may not feel like driving all the way to MWC, but if there is one at Crossroads Mall, then BINGO!  Like I said, look at Walmart.  Of course, Walmart stores competing against each other, but all of them are managed by the same company overall and look how successful.  Okay?  

I want Dillard's, Macy's, and JCPenney to come back to their original location.  I'm not sure about the location of previously occupied Steve 'n Barry's sports...any info on that space?

----------


## Charlie40

Bring back wicks and sticks and so forth

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## Larry OKC

*Thunder*: point taken about Wal-mart. However, it works for them. Now how many Dillard's or JCPenney's etc can you name that would be in that same close proximity as they would be if they were to open another store in CSM?

The more buildings you have, the more overhead you have and most likely the less shoppers per store you have. Throngs of people flock to Wal-marts. I don't see quite the same concentration with a regular department store. Their store "leakage" is going to be more profound and more of a concern. I am sure they have requirements that they aren't going to have locations within a certain radius of each other without the needed density of residents to support them. Have to remember we are highly spread out metro area without population density. 

All of that said, I think I mentioned it before, and it goes along with what you are saying...get Wal-mart to be one of your anchors. Same goes for a grocery store DT to help with the residency situation there. get Wal-mart to build a Neighborhood Market DT and problem solved. Well, maybe not because there are many people who dispise anything to do with Wal-mart & wouldn't set foot inside one. Fine, let Sunflower build a DT location. That seems to be more in line with those types anyway.

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## Thunder

I doubt that Walmart will be interested in being a mall anchor. Although, it would boost traffic to the mall 10x.

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## megax11

I know if I were a frequent Penney's shopper, I wouldn't be going to Moore. I hate driving through that small, cramped, area.

Having the convienance of not having to drive 15 minutes from southside north, to get to Penneys, or 15 minutes south to get to Penneys would be ideal.

It's like Best Buy. They have one covering all areas of the city. They're not hurting each other. Penneys and Dillards could be the same thing. Dillards, though, doesn't have any location in Moore, so it's either Norman, or PSM as the closest for southsiders.

I think the new owners will surprise us.

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## grandshoemaster

Bring back Jeans West and Chess King! LOL!! Crossroads never dies baby!!

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## jn1780

> Look at Walmart.  There are so many of them in close proximity. So what?  Dillard's and JCPenney can have some stores being in close proximity.  Remember, its always smart to cover as much bases possible.  Who cares about stores competing against each other?  They are under the same company!  Having more stores spread out will bring in more money for the company overall, because there would be a store that is nearby that people would go there to shop.  For example, someone in South OKC may not feel like driving all the way to MWC, but if there is one at Crossroads Mall, then BINGO!  Like I said, look at Walmart.  Of course, Walmart stores competing against each other, but all of them are managed by the same company overall and look how successful.  Okay?


Walmart is a bad example. Walmart is probably one of the biggest contributors to the decline of the indoor mall. Walmart has a much larger demographic base to pull from and they can get away with building stores all over the place. In fact, their the reason why these other stores can't.

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## jn1780

Nm

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## Larry OKC

i hope you are all correct

----------


## Questor

Sounds like lots of people in this thread are eating crow after being so mean to megax11.

----------


## Larry OKC

LOL, after they became substantiated, verifiable (and not just 2nd, 3rd hand or more rumors), we have been ready to say so...

Even the _National Enquirer_ got things right every so often. I remember when they were the only media outlet that got the _M*A*S*H_ finale right. _Entertainment Tonight_ and what other ones existed at the time, nope.

----------


## Larry OKC

got my wires crossed on that one

----------


## mcca7596

This gives me hope regarding the IKEA to Yukon rumor LOL. Of course, that poster hasn't been seen again as far as I know. Megax11 was persistent.

----------


## oneforone

> Sounds like lots of people in this thread are eating crow after being so mean to megax11.


I wouldn't bet the house on Crossroads being a major retail destination quite yet. Let's face it the Federal Government was anxious to get the mall off of their books. Had another year passed I bet somebody would have been able to walk away with the deed for under a million.

There are still a lot of issues that need to be handled. First and foremost is the area on the adjacent areas around the mall. You have a half occupied strip center blocking the view of the mall from interstate traffic to the West. The I-35/I-240 Interchange rebuild that is going to happen at some point during the next few years. That alone will have a drastic effect on customer traffic for 12-18 months. You have two movie theaters that are doing well one month and tanking the next. Then you have Valley Brook and all of it's wonder to the East. The surrounding area is littered with abandoned warehouse space. 

Lastly, you have image problem. Your going to need a huge investment from the city and investors. I don't see the City of Oklahoma City investing in a re-vitalization project for Crossroads and the nearby areas. 

Don't get me wrong, I really hope this deal takes off and Crossroads returns to being a vital asset to the metro. I just don't see retail being front runner in the game. I see a complex of Industrial, small business, convention/meeting space, education, healthcare, office space and a mix of quick service restaurants to cater to that crowd. If anything, move the business park from Sheppard to Crossroads. Tear down Sheppard Mall and replace it with center similar to Town Center in Midwest City. 

Any new retail they try to sell on moving there will quickly be courted by city/business leaders in Moore, Norman, Midwest City, Del City and South OKC will likely swipe anyone shopping for space at Crossroads. The only thing that would bring Crossroads back at this point would be IKEA opening a store there. They could use an existing anchor space. There stores have a showroom on one floor and the product on another. Then again I think IKEA would probably choose I-40 West, I-35 area in Edmond, Memorial or Moore/Norman long before they would choose Crossroads.

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## ljbab728

http://newsok.com/buzz-surrounds-fut...ad_story_title

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## Thunder

^^^ ^^^ ^^^  Greetings oneforone, I shall take the time I have now to respond to your previous long post, which the members can find up above (follow the arrows). 




> I wouldn't bet the house on Crossroads being a major retail destination quite yet. Let's face it the Federal Government was anxious to get the mall off of their books. Had another year passed I bet somebody would have been able to walk away with the deed for under a million.


We all know that it takes time for something to become something.  Rome wasn't built in a day (is that how its said?).  I would like to say that you are *incorrect* with your thinking that CRM's value dropping to less than a million.




> There are still a lot of issues that need to be handled. First and foremost is the area on the adjacent areas around the mall. You have a half occupied strip center blocking the view of the mall from interstate traffic to the West. The I-35/I-240 Interchange rebuild that is going to happen at some point during the next few years. That alone will have a drastic effect on customer traffic for 12-18 months. You have two movie theaters that are doing well one month and tanking the next. Then you have Valley Brook and all of it's wonder to the East. The surrounding area is littered with abandoned warehouse space.


The buyers are very much aware of all issues presented to them one way or another.  The amount of money they will be spending to purchase CRM is no joking matter.  This is serious business and a serious business is serious business.  

I can see CRM clearly and perfectly fine on both, Interstate 35 and 240.  The surrounding buildings and the strip center has no such negative effect toward my view on the mall while cruising down the Interstates within the lawful speed limit.

Constructions are happening all around us, including Downtown, so what.  We all know that constructions are only temporary.  Still want to complain about that?  There are plenty of access points to CRM and when people are determined, trust me boy, they will get there as I will quite easily as well.

Valley Brook and other buildings to the east, including the landfill, is not within CRM properties.  They are there, so what.  There are many locations in every city having some "negative" viewpoint.  Want an example?   Go cruise on down Interstate 40 through Downtown, you will see the old and rusty mills to the south.  Does it stop you from going to Downtown or Bricktown?  No, it does not (and don't lie).




> Lastly, you have image problem. Your going to need a huge investment from the city and investors. I don't see the City of Oklahoma City investing in a re-vitalization project for Crossroads and the nearby areas.


The Oklahoman has an image problem.  Do people still buy newspaper from them?  Yes.  Do people still pay "special membership" to access some features on The Oklahoman's website?  Yes.  Penn Square Mall has an image problem.  Do people still go there to shop?  Yes.  Does the ladies actively park within certain areas knowingly the potential of high crime risk?  Yes.  

Why single out Crossroads Mall?  What is your beef with this glorious piece of history?

I, among with many others, are quite confident with the dudes being able to restore CRM to its newfound glory.  Will it take time?  Yes.  Will it happen?  Yes.  The dudes know there will be huge investments to be done.  Want to know a secret?  It takes risk to be successful.  Not just any risk...a major, shocking, unthinkable, OMFG kind of risk.  They have faith, the will, the money, and the power to do it, then it will happen.  Trust me, OKC will be motivated with this glorifying news.

----------


## ljbab728

I keep seeing Valley Brook brought up as a negative for Crossroads.  I have gone to Crossroad since it opened and never once gave Valley Brook a thought.  It is irrelevant.  Can anyone give me an instance where it has caused a problem for Crossroads?

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## megax11

> Sounds like lots of people in this thread are eating crow after being so mean to megax11.


Well, I can't blame them. First time was misinformation. Other times, was me just rattling off my hopes of the mall, based on my dream.

It does mean, however, my dream is slowly coming true. It will see full realization, if the mall happens to look in anyway, the way I mentioned it in other topics.

I am just happy we can talk about the future of this mall in a light other than negative.

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## Steve

No eating crow on my end. My only argument was that insinuations that The Oklahoman was in on some sort of conspiracy to hide a sale of Crossroads Mall were ridiculous - I argued that the paper would be all over this story as soon as a sale took place. The sale has taken place, and the paper has done cover stories the past two days since the sale was finalized.

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## megax11

Hmm, that story could paint an interesting picture as to where these OKLAHOMA owners (which means they will actually care about the mall) are going.

They mention Costco. That's pretty awesome. I've always wanted to shop there and hear about it all the time. That would be a first for the city and people would have to come to southside to shop there.

If they can't get Costco, I would love to see them try for Fry's Electronics. I recently took my kids to Vegas and went to Fry's there. That store was beastin'. IT HAD IT ALL! It blows every other store out of the water.

I would also try for other known mall anchor stores. Maybe Sears?

I think they will try, and I mean TRY, to suck up to Penneys and Dillards.

I have a good feeling about this, because they don't want to go after stores until they've shown the mall in a new look, which could go a long ways in getting people back. People wanted it to look more modern, I bet they will give it to them.

I kind of wished these new owners posted here or read this site. Maybe we could offer them some free advice on how to get the mall to look. I know one thing. They need to get a dedicated section of the mall for food (ie food court). It would be awesome to see an arcade back for the kids.

EDIT: Steve, have they updated the assesor site yet?

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## megax11

Meh. After seeing pics of Costco, I thought it was like an electronics store. I know they carry some, but I didn't know it was in the style of Sam's Club.

The mall wouldn't do good having a warehouse looking store like that.

BRING ON FRY'S! Man, I wish those owners read this site. We need Fry's. Best store I shopped at.

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## Martin

what is the average square footage of a fry's?  are they typically large enough to fill one of crossroads anchors? -M

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## Soonerman

> Hmm, that story could paint an interesting picture as to where these OKLAHOMA owners (which means they will actually care about the mall) are going.
> 
> They mention Costco. That's pretty awesome. I've always wanted to shop there and hear about it all the time. That would be a first for the city and people would have to come to southside to shop there.
> 
> If they can't get Costco, I would love to see them try for Fry's Electronics. I recently took my kids to Vegas and went to Fry's there. That store was beastin'. IT HAD IT ALL! It blows every other store out of the water.
> 
> I would also try for other known mall anchor stores. Maybe Sears?
> 
> I think they will try, and I mean TRY, to suck up to Penneys and Dillards.
> ...


I'd like to see them try to get Target to move from 44th and Western over to Crossroads mall. Of course I think a two story Target would be pretty cool.

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## Larry OKC

> what is the average square footage of a fry's?  are they typically large enough to fill one of crossroads anchors? -M


Frys seem HUGE. I don't know their actual sf, but the last one I went to in the Arlington TX area looked like it was 2 or 3 Wal-mart supercenters inside. They have anything and everything that is electrical. Prices blow everything out of the water. I love this place. They told me that they were coming to OKC several years ago but obviously that didn't happen.To give ou an idea of the amount of stuff they carry, they had multiple full page ads in the Sunday paper with primarily line listings not huge amounts of space taken up by pictures with a little bit of text.

*ON EDIT*: while they do seem huge it looks like they may be about the same as a Wal-mart Supercenter (Frys =
50,000 to 180,000 square feet) but that space is not taken up by clothing, decor and grocery either

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## megax11

> what is the average square footage of a fry's?  are they typically large enough to fill one of crossroads anchors? -M


I can only vouch for the Vegas location they had south of the strip.

THAT STORE WAS MASSIVE! So much walking room, and they carried everything.

If I could guesstimate about the size of that store, it was as big as the inside of a walmart supercenter or close to it. If they knocked down all walls of JCP's first floor, I think that store would have fit in there. I THINK!

Here is a pic from outside the Vegas location. Despite what you see there, it still stretches to each side of that pic and then goes all the way back, way deep.

http://localcontent.zenfs.com/9994/5858144.JPG

It seems all Fry's are pretty large on the inside. I wish I could show some pics to use as a comparison.

Also, I've noticed wherever a new Fry's goes, depending on the city/state, they give each Fry's a theme.

Like here is one in Arizona -

http://netaffilia.com/images/store/phoenix_frys.jpg

Here's another in another state -

http://www.poi-factory.com/files/img/frys.jpg

The one in Vegas, as you can see, has a slot machine on its entrance. Pretty cool.

EDIT: If Fry's ever came here, that would be awesome. It was seriously a store I could have spent hours in.

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## Thunder

Just saying...

What would be everyone's reaction of Crossroads Mall suddenly to become a monster mall that literally goes skyhigh?  A 1,000' tower at the core of the mall. :-O

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## kevinpate

> Just saying...
> 
> What would be everyone's reaction of Crossroads Mall suddenly to become a monster mall that literally goes skyhigh?  A 1,000' tower at the core of the mall. :-O


Though I am happy for better prospects for CRM, my initial reaction to the above is to suggest you put the cork back in the bottle, step away from it quietly, and call yourself a cab.  I might be wrong, but I somewhat worry you reached your limit ... an hour ago.

----------


## MikeOKC

> I keep seeing Valley Brook brought up as a negative for Crossroads.  I have gone to Crossroad since it opened and never once gave Valley Brook a thought.  It is irrelevant.  Can anyone give me an instance where it has caused a problem for Crossroads?


I agree with this. I only know of Valley Brook from the talk of strip clubs and corrupt cops. Before anybody asks for proof about the cops it's just been long talked about and then TODAY there's this:
*Valley Brook police chief charged with drug trafficking*
Read more: http://newsok.com/valley-brook-polic...#ixzz1Y3gzkeJJ

So, I guess where there's smoke many times there is, indeed, a fire. But does Valley Brook have anything to do with Crossroads? I don't see it.

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## MikeOKC

delete - meant this to be an edit.

----------


## Rover

Good for CRM.  These guys bought it for a song and that helps the bottom line.  But they will have to spend lots of money to get it marketed and competitive.  This is a lot more ambitious project than Dillard has taken on before.  It will be interesting to see how much money he can put in as I doubt it is too easy to get loans for enclosed mall improvements these days, let alone money for marketing.  If improvements and marketing isn't done, there is no reason to suspect it will be any more successful than it has been the last decade.  As long as it breaks even then Dillard made a good deal as the land will be worth what they paid.  It is if it has negative cash flow that will test his stomach.

----------


## jn1780

> Good for CRM.  These guys bought it for a song and that helps the bottom line.  But they will have to spend lots of money to get it marketed and competitive.  This is a lot more ambitious project than Dillard has taken on before.  It will be interesting to see how much money he can put in as I doubt it is too easy to get loans for enclosed mall improvements these days, let alone money for marketing.  If improvements and marketing isn't done, there is no reason to suspect it will be any more successful than it has been the last decade.  As long as it breaks even then Dillard made a good deal as the land will be worth what they paid.  It is if it has negative cash flow that will test his stomach.


Yeah, I'm not confident the new owners will spend or do what it takes to bring Crossroads Mall back to life. After viewing the fox 25 report on the other thread, I get the impression the guy thinks he they can do a few cosmetic changes and everyone will come back. He sounds and even looks like one of those guys from "house flippers".

----------


## Thunder

> Yeah, I'm not confident the new owners will spend or do what it takes to bring Crossroads Mall back to life. After viewing the fox 25 report on the other thread, I get the impression the guy thinks he they can do a few cosmetic changes and everyone will come back. He sounds and even looks like one of those guys from "house flippers".


*Incorrect.*

There will be major changes.  The dudes don't have to go into complete and specific details so early on.  FFS, they just bought the mall.  Give them time to assemble the planning and designing teams.  When all is done, you will see outdoor shopping centers will begin to have vast amount of near-store parking spaces available while people fight for one at CRM.

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## jn1780

> *Incorrect.*
> 
> There will be major changes.  The dudes don't have to go into complete and specific details so early on.  FFS, they just bought the mall.  Give them time to assemble the planning and designing teams.  When all is done, you will see outdoor shopping centers will begin to have vast amount of near-store parking spaces available while people fight for one at CRM.


We'll see I guess. Maybe his logic that "everyone else is full so they must come to Crossroads" will pay off".

----------


## Thunder

> We'll see I guess. Maybe his logic that "everyone else is full so they must come to Crossroads" will pay off".


Very true. It is hard to find spaces in an available outdoor shopping center.

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## Larry OKC

Hmmm, wonder why that is???

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## megax11

I was told a radio station was talking about the mall and what store callers would like to see.

During that call, supposedly someone who has ties to the owners or the owners themselves, called and said "we're taking notes. We're listening."

So I say this, incase they know of this website, read it, and maybe see this, here is what I would like to see in the mall.

Big risk sometimes brings great reward.

New stores not in Oklahoma -

- Fry's

Stores in other malls but not close to southside -

- Suncoast Video (FYE outside the mall)
- Hollister
- Buckle
- Abercrombie/A&F
- Spencers
- Sam Goody (if a no-go on Suncoast) (saw one while on a tipe to Vegas in Albuquerque's Coronado Mall 3 weeks ago).
- Candyopolis
- Tilt (an arcade I see at Quail Springs Mall) or some brand of arcade. GAMEWORKS! (slim to none, but having fun)
- Disney Store

These are just some ideas.

Make sure Hot Topic stays. Make sure Gamestop stays.

Make section of the mall dedicated to having a food court for consistency. Also buy the Macy's building from whoever is selling it, doze it - if Macy's won't return - and see if AMC will construct a new theatre to go there, with their own brand of IMAX.

Just ideas. However, I would like to see some of the stores listed above come to southside. Stores that people frequent at Quail/Penn like Hollister and Buckle.

Make the mall look nice. I say match the styling of the area where the carousel is. I like the color of the brick that's in place now.

Try and get Dillards and Penney's to come back.

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## Thunder

*RED ALERT*

This is the special message to the two dudes that is now the proud owners of Crossroads Mall.

There has been breaking news that the owner of a shopping center somewhere on Memorial jacked up the leasing rents.  Stores in that location are leaving faster than a cockroach can scramble in daylight.

Books-A-Million and Bath & Body Works

I strongly advise you to contact them with superb incentives to relocate to Crossroads Mall.

.....

If anyone can contact Books-A-Million and Bath & Body works management, please do inform them of Crossroads Mall's revival.  Hopefully they are aware of the Crossroads Mall breaking news.  Thanks!

Now, we need to alert many other stores by contacting management.

----------


## USG'60

Ah, the excitable boy never rests.  :-)  Go get 'em, Tiger.  :-D

----------


## Thunder

> Ah, the excitable boy never rests.  :-)  Go get 'em, Tiger.  :-D


*growls*  I'd like to see what they look like first. :-P

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## Larry OKC

Books-A-million is buying some of the closing/bankrupt Borders locations, so if they are moving, I would think they might be looking at going into the now closed Borders store on NW Expressway (currently a temp Halloween Store). Course they could have a southside location too.

While rent may still be cheaper @ Crossroads, didn't the new owners indicate they were going to be raising rents too?
http://newsok.com/buzz-surrounds-fut...ad_story_title



> But the excitement of tenants like Tegart may damper when they discover the rock-bottom rent they've been receiving is likely to rise. John Wooley II, a spokesman for the mall's new owner, Raptor Properties LLC, said all the current tenants have short-term leases and when it's time to renew, rates will be more competitive.

----------


## megax11

> Books-A-million is buying some of the closing/bankrupt Borders locations, so if they are moving, I would think they might be looking at going into the now closed Borders store on NW Expressway (currently a temp Halloween Store). Course they could have a southside location too.
> 
> While rent may still be cheaper @ Crossroads, didn't the new owners indicate they were going to be raising rents too?
> http://newsok.com/buzz-surrounds-fut...ad_story_title


I think they will raise rent, but not to the levels the old owners did, that drove out the stores. Plus the new owners are actually listening to what the merchants wanted the most, which was for the mall to be renovated and modernized.

I think they know what issues the merchants held to their chest back in the day and will stop from repeating the same mistakes the old owners did.

----------


## Thunder

> I think they will raise rent, but not to the levels the old owners did, that drove out the stores. Plus the new owners are actually listening to what the merchants wanted the most, which was for the mall to be renovated and modernized.
> 
> I think they know what issues the merchants held to their chest back in the day and will stop from repeating the same mistakes the old owners did.


*Correct.*

I think its the most logical decision ever made in the history of CRM.  Start the rent low with incentives.  This will attract past and new businesses.  Gradually increase the rent annually to a competitive level.  I am sure the dudes will basically keep rent just a tiny bit lower than area/state/national average in order to be competitive.  

I'd like to know if every space has its own electric meter or does OG&E send CRM one whole bill?  If its just one gigantic monthly electric bill, then businesses better darn understand the electricity rates, how much they use, and the electric usage to crank up the AC and Heater that has to affect the entire mall as well. 

Yup, the dudes know of all that. :-D

megax11, we should meet and toast a celebration.  I was your only true believer.  Never once did I let you down.

----------


## megax11

> *Correct.*
> 
> I think its the most logical decision ever made in the history of CRM.  Start the rent low with incentives.  This will attract past and new businesses.  Gradually increase the rent annually to a competitive level.  I am sure the dudes will basically keep rent just a tiny bit lower than area/state/national average in order to be competitive.  
> 
> I'd like to know if every space has its own electric meter or does OG&E send CRM one whole bill?  If its just one gigantic monthly electric bill, then businesses better darn understand the electricity rates, how much they use, and the electric usage to crank up the AC and Heater that has to affect the entire mall as well. 
> 
> Yup, the dudes know of all that. :-D
> 
> megax11, we should meet and toast a celebration.  I was your only true believer.  Never once did I let you down.


LOL! Perhaps we can all have a celebration at the renovated CRM after it hits capacity again.

----------


## Thunder

> LOL! Perhaps we can all have a celebration at the renovated CRM after it hits capacity again.


Yes, you should organize an OKCTalk get-together! 

(I will need heavy bodyguards.)

----------


## Patrick

Just being realistic.  I'm not saying it won't ever be a retail center again, but I'd quit focusing on the past and focus on the future.  Focus on ways to re-use the mall for retail use in ways that obviously weren't working as a traditional mall.  Traditional mall retailers are struggling right now, so you're going to have a hard time selling them on a failed mall.  Someone mentioned Abercrombie, Hollister, and A&F.  Abercrombie just pulled most of their stores out of Quail springs, so I don't see them even beginning to take a risk on Crossroads.   JC Penney simply isn't coming back.  

Dillards still owns its property, and it's been mentioned that they might consider putting a clearance center in the space.  I actually don't think that's a bad move for Crossroads.  Truth is, retailers often times only look at demographics within a 1 mile radius around the mall.  Even though the south side has some pretty wealthy areas, the area right around the mall isn't helping any.  But, that might not be a problem.  Someone mentioned Costco.   I think that's a GREAT idea!  It's a new major retailer to the market, and it fits in well with what Crossroads can attract at the present time.  If you're thinking upscale retailers like Saks, Niemann, Nordstrom, etc., I think you're kidding yourself.  Be more realistic.  But, maybe some of the clearance centers for the upscale retailers would work, like a Nieman Marcus Last Call, Nordstrom Rack, etc.

----------


## jn1780

> Just being realistic.  I'm not saying it won't ever be a retail center again, but I'd quit focusing on the past and focus on the future.  Focus on ways to re-use the mall for retail use in ways that obviously weren't working as a traditional mall.  Traditional mall retailers are struggling right now, so you're going to have a hard time selling them on a failed mall.  Someone mentioned Abercrombie, Hollister, and A&F.  Abercrombie just pulled most of their stores out of Quail springs, so I don't see them even beginning to take a risk on Crossroads.   JC Penney simply isn't coming back.  
> 
> Dillards still owns its property, and it's been mentioned that they might consider putting a clearance center in the space.  I actually don't think that's a bad move for Crossroads.  Truth is, retailers often times only look at demographics within a 1 mile radius around the mall.  Even though the south side has some pretty wealthy areas, the area right around the mall isn't helping any.  But, that might not be a problem.  Someone mentioned Costco.   I think that's a GREAT idea!  It's a new major retailer to the market, and it fits in well with what Crossroads can attract at the present time.  If you're thinking upscale retailers like Saks, Niemann, Nordstrom, etc., I think you're kidding yourself.  Be more realistic.  But, maybe some of the clearance centers for the upscale retailers would work, like a Nieman Marcus Last Call, Nordstrom Rack, etc.


I don't know enough about Costco. Is Crossroads the kind of place they would move into? Especially when it would be their first time in the area. The owner mention some other stores that would be new to the area that they wish to attract.

----------


## Patrick

> There has been breaking news that the owner of a shopping center somewhere on Memorial jacked up the leasing rents.  Stores in that location are leaving faster than a cockroach can scramble in daylight.
> 
> Books-A-Million and Bath & Body Works
> 
> I strongly advise you to contact them with superb incentives to relocate to Crossroads Mall.


Ummmm, not too many folks are leaving that shopping center (Quail Springs Marketplace), so not sure what you're referring to.  Ultimate electronics went out of business because the whole chain went bankrupt.  Books-a-million is leaving because they're likely buying the Borders location on NW Expressway....better location, and can own rather than lease.  And if Bath and Body works leaves, it will be because they already have a store across the street in Quail springs Mall....never really made sense to have a store in that shopping center anyways.

----------


## Patrick

> I don't know enough about Costco. Is Crossroads the kind of place they would move into? Especially when it would be their first time in the area. The owner mention some other stores that would be new to the area that they wish to attract.


Costco:  think Sams only a little more upscale.  

What other stores did they mention?

----------


## Patrick

Guys, if you re-read the article from The Oklahoman, there are some areas of concern: 
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-rap...#ixzz1Xvw9HEks

If they think that minor cosmetic changes, like changing the Pepto-Bismol paint, are going to turn the mall around, then they're as crazy as previous owners have been.  

They're also considering turning the larger anchor spaces into office space.   There's nothing retail about that.

----------


## megax11

> Guys, if you re-read the article from The Oklahoman, there are some areas of concern: 
> http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-rap...#ixzz1Xvw9HEks
> 
> If they think that minor cosmetic changes, like changing the Pepto-Bismol paint, are going to turn the mall around, then they're as crazy as previous owners have been.  
> 
> They're also considering turning the larger anchor spaces into office space.   There's nothing retail about that.


That's only one thing they were looking at fixing. They specifically mention "TLC," which means tender loving care, which means it will most likely go beyond just painting the pink a different color.

Infact, Thunder posted a link to a video here, where FOX 25 mentioned they're going to do more renovations than just paint something a different color. Infact, they said they're going to use the renovations to entice people to come back.

They know what they're doing.

----------


## Thunder

megax11, our friend, Brian, posted that link to that news video.

----------


## Patrick

> That's only one thing they were looking at fixing. They specifically mention "TLC," which means tender loving care, which means it will most likely go beyond just painting the pink a different color.
> 
> Infact, Thunder posted a link to a video here, where FOX 25 mentioned they're going to do more renovations than just paint something a different color. Infact, they said they're going to use the renovations to entice people to come back.
> 
> They know what they're doing.


Then they need to list specifics.  Thunder actually already did a great job of this.  The owners can take his list and get started!

----------


## Thunder

> Then they need to list specifics.  Thunder actually already did a great job of this.  The owners can take his list and get started!


It is what I want to see done to the mall.

Now, people will say that neon border all around atop the building is too excessive.  I disagree.  Sonic is famous for their neon lights.  There are growing places having neon lights.  Even a small shopping center on the northwest corner of Sunnylane and 15th in Del City north of a gas station has purple/blue neon border lights atop the building.  Its just a creative and impressive display for the building at night and to make it more lively.  It is also attractive and more noticeable. 

Why I want it on Crossroads Mall?  To propel the mall into the future.  It will greatly boost the exterior appearance at night.  People driving by on Interstate 35 and 240 at night will surly notice the lights.  Those that do not know of the mall's existence will for sure find out as soon as they can during daylight.  The mall will become more lively.  The appearance will be...eh just pick a word.  Something like 3 or 4 lines of neon lights all around.  Can be all blue or blue/white or whichever colors combination they choose.

I'm not sure about the current rates for neon lights compared to the past, but I consider it a great investment as long they choose the right company, brand, and utmost quality.  All of it can last for many years and quite electric-friendly, so like I said, a great investment to enhance the mall.

Also neon lights outline for new 'n raised signage on all sides of the mall.

The dudes can have bragging right to having the only mall in the state to be outfitted with neon lights.

----------


## Larry OKC

I love the neon idea. A couple of th hotels on NW Expressway & May have them and they look great at night.




> *RED ALERT*
> 
> ...If anyone can contact Books-A-Million and *Bath & Body works* management, please do inform them of Crossroads Mall's revival.  Hopefully they are aware of the Crossroads Mall breaking news.  Thanks!
> 
> Now, we need to alert many other stores by contacting management.


Can cross them off your contact list... the _Oklahoman_ had a pic in the "Buzz" story and the caption read "*Bath and Body Works* is one of the main tenants inside Crossroads Mall..."

----------


## Thunder

I thought they left sometime earlier this year.  I guess they are still there, which is good news.  And they will be there for many years to come under the new management of two dudes (unless an F5 comes barreling down the path).

Also, I have another suggestion.  To the two dudes silently reading this, but afraid to join in the conversation, please reserve a space for a LPS.  That is Local Pet Store.  Preferably the same space on the east side of the mall next to the anchor space (upper level) previously leased by Steve 'n Barry.  There was a pet store for many years, Pets Unlimited, but they moved out due to previous owners jacking up rent.  I think Pets Unlimited then reopened at a new location, but lack of customers (shame on you Oklahomans) failed to follow.  Anyway, bring back a pet store that is unique.  Not part of a retail chain.  A Local Pet Store tend to have more knowledgeable employees.  Pets such as dogs, cats, fish, birds, bunnies, hamsters, gerbils (stay away Mathis Brothers), mice, reptiles, critters, and more.  There is already a showcase within the space that is outside the space (where the mall walkway is) where puppies or kittens are kept for special up close viewing, special sales, etc.  Bottom line, bring back a pet store.  Its rare to find one in Oklahoma.  Consider this, the two dudes, this will be another feature/attraction that will also have additional target audience to flock toward the mall.  Trust me, many times I just love going out there to visit our fellow animals.

(Btw, I would love that space for a Fish 'n Aquarium Supplies store. lol)  Maybe one day, if this new business become really successful, I may consider relocating or expanding.

Oh, I have a special offer to the two dudes.  Lifetime free rental/leasing space in exchange for me to start a brand new website for Crossroads Mall with pictures and videos of all the retailers, vendors, and so on.  Including events, announcements, and so much more.  Constantly updated monthly, etc.  I can do that in exchange for a few grands to start up a business there along with lifetime free rental/leasing (the agreement will be kept a secret between the two dudes and I).

----------


## Steve

Sorry, but I would not count on Bates and Dillard being readers of OKC Talk.

----------


## Thunder

> Sorry, but I would not count on Bates and Dillard being readers of OKC Talk.


Then that will be their demise.  They seriously need to learn about this site and listen up.

----------


## Jesseda

thunder, pets unlimited closed due to bad rep.. they got sued by a lot of people who bought sick puppies that died from them, pets unlimited never was able to make it after, thats why when they moved to their location in the walnut square shopping center, no one wanted to buy a dog from them after what happen with a lot of customers

----------


## megax11

Okay, time to sound odd again.

During some of my mall dreams, I remember being inside Dillards. This is after renovations to the mall, because the mall felt different. I remember hiding from my son, having fun. I was looking at the carpet inside this seemingly new Dillards and seeing beige carpet that didn't used to be in the old Dillards.

So anyhow, I go to Best Buy last night, for the launch of Gears of War 3 on Xbox 360. I see the lights on in Dillards, so I think "I should drive over and see what's up. It looks different inside."

It also baffled me, because the Dillards doors used to be boarded up where no one could see through, so I was also wondering why they were taken down. So I drive up and all the sudden it hit me like a ton of bricks. There is brand new beige carpet in there. As soon as I looked at it, I instantly thought about that dream I had, where I was hiding from my son on a trip to the mall with my at least my son.

So now the question is -

1: Why does Dillards have the boards down?
2: Why are they working on the inside?
3: Why do they have all new carpet inside?

Maybe they're going back?

----------


## Patrick

> Okay, time to sound odd again.
> 
> During some of my mall dreams, I remember being inside Dillards. This is after renovations to the mall, because the mall felt different. I remember hiding from my son, having fun. I was looking at the carpet inside this seemingly new Dillards and seeing beige carpet that didn't used to be in the old Dillards.
> 
> So anyhow, I go to Best Buy last night, for the launch of Gears of War 3 on Xbox 360. I see the lights on in Dillards, so I think "I should drive over and see what's up. It looks different inside."
> 
> It also baffled me, because the Dillards doors used to be boarded up where no one could see through, so I was also wondering why they were taken down. So I drive up and all the sudden it hit me like a ton of bricks. There is brand new beige carpet in there. As soon as I looked at it, I instantly thought about that dream I had, where I was hiding from my son on a trip to the mall with my at least my son.
> 
> So now the question is -
> ...


I think it's already been stated that they're likely going to put a Dillards Clearance Center in there.

----------


## megax11

> I think it's already been stated that they're likely going to put a Dillards Clearance Center in there.


Thought that had been debunked or fell through more than a year ago. They were supposed to have gone back last year, and it didn't happen.

I haven't heard any news as of late, of Dillards going back.

----------


## Thunder

Dillard's will not be going back into that building as a Clearance Center since the news revival by the two dudes.  If they are to ever come back, which they will, it will be as a full-scale store with spanking brand new carpeting.

----------


## kevinpate

Maybe I am crazy, and I'm the first to concede that possibility most days.  but i woulda sworn that when Dillards was closing out a few years back it had beige carpet in most areas on the first floor except for the wide walkways.

Could be thinking of somewhere else, but I thought it was when i was checking for any interesting display pieces that were being liquidated.

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## Thunder

Kevin, it was tan.  Dillard's going beige to amaze!

----------


## megax11

Exactly. Glad to know I wasn't the only one who remembered.

The original carpet was a darkish tan, but slightly lighter than the wooden flooring.

----------


## MsDarkstar

My uncle owns a large commercial painting company here in OKC & Mike Dillard is a good friend of his.  He told me about the purchase the day they closed the deal (we'd been discussing CRM's current sad state a few months ago & he knew I'd be interested).  I asked him if he had any idea what the plan for the mall was going to be & he said that Mr. Dillard told him what he wants most is to keep it as a mall; to update the interior & lure stores back to fill it up again.  That is the current plan BUT is subject to change depending on how much it's going to cost to get it to the point that they've got more stores.  On the plus side of things, the asbestos was removed several years ago, most of the air conditioning units are in good working order & the last remodel that was done took care of most of the hard stuff.  My uncle said that Mr. Dillard is very excited about this project.  He said once they get a better idea of exactly what they want to change he will be going out to tour the property again & put in a bid for the painting job.  I told him to keep me posted with anything he hears about it.  

And before people start thinking this is yet another heard from a friend who heard from a friend who knows a guy whose wife's third cousin is the new owners lawn boy - pm me & I'll give you my uncle's name & the name of his company.  I won't post it publicly without permission.  Some of you southsiders from Grant probably know him anyway lol.

----------


## Thunder

Please pass on the message that the two dudes MUST regularly come on here to be guided on how to renovate the mall.  If they do not, they will fail.  And that is Fail hardcore.  Who cares about money.  They must spend a whole bunch and risk it in order to revive and make money.

----------


## jn1780

> My uncle owns a large commercial painting company here in OKC & Mike Dillard is a good friend of his.  He told me about the purchase the day they closed the deal (we'd been discussing CRM's current sad state a few months ago & he knew I'd be interested).  I asked him if he had any idea what the plan for the mall was going to be & he said that Mr. Dillard told him what he wants most is to keep it as a mall; to update the interior & lure stores back to fill it up again.  That is the current plan BUT is subject to change depending on how much it's going to cost to get it to the point that they've got more stores.  On the plus side of things, the asbestos was removed several years ago, most of the air conditioning units are in good working order & the last remodel that was done took care of most of the hard stuff.  My uncle said that Mr. Dillard is very excited about this project.  He said once they get a better idea of exactly what they want to change he will be going out to tour the property again & put in a bid for the painting job.  I told him to keep me posted with anything he hears about it.  
> 
> And before people start thinking this is yet another heard from a friend who heard from a friend who knows a guy whose wife's third cousin is the new owners lawn boy - pm me & I'll give you my uncle's name & the name of his company.  I won't post it publicly without permission.  Some of you southsiders from Grant probably know him anyway lol.


No, I believe you.  Do you happen to know if at the very least they plan on putting in a new tile floor?  I wonder how much Mike Dillard *thinks* it will take to lure stores back.  I can tell based on your description that the ideas and dreams of some members of this forum go beyond what the new owners want to do with the mall. Certainly no major structural changes like a new food court, new entrance,more open space, attached movie theater, etc that others have mentioned.

----------


## MsDarkstar

jn1780 - My uncle didn't mention anything about the flooring.  He just told me that they got the main CRM building & the two outbuildings (the tire place & service center I think he said).  I asked him about Dillard's, whether or not that was included in the sale since I thought it was owned seperately.  He said he didn't know, he didn't think to ask.  We just talked about the financial aspect of things regarding what they paid versus what it'll take to make it a decent mall again.  As I said in my previous post, that discussion was mainly about the asbestos removal, A/C units & previous remodels putting them in a good position to spend most of their budget on prettying things up.  He said they'll know more once they get in there with contractors.  Mostly he just said that Mike is a great guy & is really excited about turning CRM around.  I'll update when I hear more.  I'll be seeing my uncle this week anyway & have to get scoop on The Warren Theater; his company did the interior paint work on it & they asked him to bid the work on the new addition.  The fun thing about that is that if he gets it, they'll get to go to preview night.  When The Warren opened, we got to go have dinner & see a movie for free to test out the staff before the grand opening.  It was a lot of fun!

----------


## megax11

Thanks for the info, Darkstar.

Perhaps you could help relay some of the ideas from us here, to your dad, who can then pass it by Mr. Dillard?

Never hurts, and we all want to see this mall restored.

First off, there should be new flooring. I know I've stated how I've seen the mall with white/black marble tiles with green/white marble diamond-shaped tiles between every 4 tiles, but it doesn't have to be that. Perhaps a beige-ish color, to match the new bricking near the carousel?

The main problem with the mall, is the "pepto-bismal" colored railing, and the flooring. If they fixed those aspects, the mall would be more modernized. The flooring had been there since the day it opened in 1974.

Just something to run by your father, who may then run it by Mr. Dillard.

I think it would have been cool if Mr. Dillard, or one of the owners, visited here and got some ideas from us. If not to post, then at least to view and get some of our ideas at a five-fingered discount.

I still think they need to dedicate a section of the mall to being a food court. The lack of consistency in the previous version of the mall, probably caused some frustration as well.

----------


## Thunder

Why not keep the pink railings? :-(

----------


## Midtowner

OKC should be very interested in providing TIF financing to lure retail dollars back away from Moore.

----------


## flintysooner

> OKC should be very interested in providing TIF financing to lure retail dollars back away from Moore.


Do you think Best Buy might close the Moore store if they were given the proper incentive?  Isn't this idea more a way to punish Moore than help OKC?

Asking, not setting up an argument, to try to understand the concept.

----------


## megax11

Any new info on when renovations should be starting on the inside of the mall?

----------


## oneforone

> Do you think Best Buy might close the Moore store if they were given the proper incentive?  Isn't this idea more a way to punish Moore than help OKC?
> 
> Asking, not setting up an argument, to try to understand the concept.


 Probably not since those stores are likely leased long term. Moving the Crossroads store to 240 Penn Park will likely help both stores as far as turnstile numbers are concerned. If you think about it all the Best Buy store will now be approximately 15 minutes apart from one another therefore allowing each store to serve a large number of customers and they will be able shuttle traffic back and forth to each other when stock is depleted at one and overstocked at another.

----------


## megax11

I wonder why these two Oklahoma owners haven't spoken up yet about the mall? I mean why buy a mall for 3 mil and sit on it? The lack of updates make me think they don't care for the mall like I thought they did.

----------


## Thunder

> I wonder why these two Oklahoma owners haven't spoken up yet about the mall? I mean why buy a mall for 3 mil and sit on it? The lack of updates make me think they don't care for the mall like I thought they did.


They probably don't like media exposure. Just look at them....the two dudes. The media are bound to find out of their homosexual relationship together. Maybe they are afraid that people will find out and not go to the mall ever again.

 :LolLolLolLol:

----------


## Swake2

> I wonder why these two Oklahoma owners haven't spoken up yet about the mall? I mean why buy a mall for 3 mil and sit on it? The lack of updates make me think they don't care for the mall like I thought they did.


shocking

----------


## Thunder

> shocking


What are you shocked about? That our #1 mall still lives on?

----------


## jn1780

> They probably don't like media exposure. Just look at them....the two dudes. The media are bound to find out of their homosexual relationship together. Maybe they are afraid that people will find out and not go to the mall ever again.


Where's Jean-Luc Picard when you need him? He might need to bring along Riker to for that comment.

----------


## rcjunkie

> *What are you shocked about?* That our #1 mall still lives on?


Probably the fact you would make such a false and possibly slanderous statement, not very smart--------but not surprised!

----------


## megax11

Okay, there should have been some update about the mall by now. They bought the mall almost 2 months ago, if I recall, and no new updates.

I'm starting to think these new owners are flakes. Flakes in that they bought the mall for 3 mil, said some words, and are now putting a foot in their mouth.

I highly doubt I can walk in that mall and see anything starting up. I wish they would say something.

----------


## Thunder

> Okay, there should have been some update about the mall by now. They bought the mall almost 2 months ago, if I recall, and no new updates.
> 
> I'm starting to think these new owners are flakes. Flakes in that they bought the mall for 3 mil, said some words, and are now putting a foot in their mouth.
> 
> I highly doubt I can walk in that mall and see anything starting up. I wish they would say something.


You missed the story on KFOR?  The two men are known slumlords.  Now they have control of the magnificent mall, Christmas is looking very dim this year.

----------


## MDot

> You missed the story on KFOR?  The two men are known slumlords.  Now they have control of the magnificent mall, Christmas is looking very dim this year.


Former magnificant mall; not so much now.

----------


## jn1780

> Okay, there should have been some update about the mall by now. They bought the mall almost 2 months ago, if I recall, and no new updates.
> 
> I'm starting to think these new owners are flakes. Flakes in that they bought the mall for 3 mil, said some words, and are now putting a foot in their mouth.
> 
> I highly doubt I can walk in that mall and see anything starting up. I wish they would say something.


Otherwise known as speculators or flippers. If you ever watch house flippers, the people that make out the best are the ones who just do mostly cosmetic changes like paint or cheap tile. 

It takes a long time to collect enough discount mess up paint from Home Depot to do the entire mall you know.  Lol

----------


## Bailey80

> You missed the story on KFOR?  The two men are known slumlords.  Now they have control of the magnificent mall, Christmas is looking very dim this year.


Link please?
From talking with the new owners, I think they are waiting to see what kind of interest there is from retailers to move back in before they throw a lot of money into the property. It would be pretty foolish to pour millions into the place and then find out no national retailers want to lease space there.

----------


## Rover

> Link please?
> From talking with the new owners, I think they are waiting to see what kind of interest there is from retailers to move back in before they throw a lot of money into the property. It would be pretty foolish to pour millions into the place and then find out no national retailers want to lease space there.


You would have thought they would do this BEFORE buying the place.  Doesn't sound like they knew what they were doing.  This is much different than the little buildings they were doing previously.

----------


## rcjunkie

> You would have thought they would do this *BEFORE buying the place.*  Doesn't sound like they knew what they were doing.  This is much different than the little buildings they were doing previously.


Being the business men they are, I'm sure they did. Even if the mall is never updated/remodeled, the land is worth more than what they paid for the mall.

----------


## megax11

> Link please?
> From talking with the new owners, I think they are waiting to see what kind of interest there is from retailers to move back in before they throw a lot of money into the property. It would be pretty foolish to pour millions into the place and then find out no national retailers want to lease space there.


See, that's the thing. These flakes stated they were going to attract businesses back by showing them a newly renovated mall.

That makes sense, afterall. Why would businesses, new and old, want to come back when the mall looks the same? These guys need to renovate then use the mall's new look, to bring in some retailers.

However, these guys probably blew their waud cause they could get it for 3 mil, but really knew nothing.

----------


## Bailey80

> See, that's the thing. These flakes stated they were going to attract businesses back by showing them a newly renovated mall.
> 
> That makes sense, afterall. Why would businesses, new and old, want to come back when the mall looks the same? These guys need to renovate then use the mall's new look, to bring in some retailers.
> 
> However, these guys probably blew their waud cause they could get it for 3 mil, but really knew nothing.


The mall is actually still in pretty good shape. I know they are doing a few small cosmetic things like putting in new carpet and things. Even if they decided to invest a lot of money into the property right away, what bank are they going to get to finance renovating a mostly empty mall?

----------


## Patrick

Only a major national redeveloper could pull this off.  I just don't have a lot of faith in 2 local Oklahoma guys pulling this off.

----------


## jn1780

Here it is January now. Have they done anything at all?

----------


## Thunder

> Here it is January now. Have they done anything at all?


Did you visit anytime during December?

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## soonerliberal

> Did you visit anytime during December?


I did drive by it on I-240 and Bath and Body Works is on the sign where the anchors normally are placed.  That is not a good sign.  :Smile:

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## Jesseda

I went to crossroads mall on december 23 to get something for my wife at victoria secret. well i got front row parking lol. The place did not decorate for christmas except for the little santa gretting area. they did not have any special holiday kiosk vendors or anything, the mall is dead store in the center of the mall are even closing or closed. i would say maybe a dozen stores are left maybe less

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## oneforone

> I did drive by it on I-240 and Bath and Body Works is on the sign where the anchors normally are placed.  That is not a good sign.


That road sign has been kind of a bad omen for them since the large anchors left. Every time they post a merchant, they leave. Bath and Body Works will stick it out for the long hall. They were open in Heritage Park until the last six months. According to the manger my wife and I talked to the day before they closed for good. They would have stayed until the very end however, the mall owner quit turning on the inside lights and they did away with their security guards.

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## megax11

Why did these clowns buy the mall, only to do nothing they said they were going to? I swear, humans can be so moronic at times. Makes me ashamed to be called a human.

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## kevinpate

> Why did these clowns buy the mall, only to do nothing they said they were going to? I swear, humans can be so moronic at times. Makes me ashamed to be called a human.


Maybe they had some spare cash in a box and sitting around one night huffing cubanos and swilling cognac they were sitting there and decided, "Ok, heads we buy that lil island off the Florida coast & tails we snatch up the CR mall for a song and sit on it, just to muck up the dreams of someone over at okctalk ..... <coin flippin in air> Sweet! Dreamwreckers R Us!"

----------


## Jesseda

> Why did these clowns buy the mall, only to do nothing they said they were going to? I swear, humans can be so moronic at times. Makes me ashamed to be called a human.


take it for what it is worth, but when i went to the mall dec 23rd a employee and victoria secret was havinga conversation with me about how empty the mall is, she told me the new owners plan to revamp it starting sometime spring of this year, also they are in talks with getting some new tenants in, but then again this has been going on for years now at this mall and yet nothing has came about, hopefully something good will happen in 2012 if not then this mall is doomed for good with no chance

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## SoonerDave

I dunno. I have to think even a superficial "re-treatment" of a place the size of CRM takes time to plan and get underway, so while it may be naive on my part, I'm willing to give these owners the benefit of the doubt. If it were truly a shell operation merely to get the land, and all the mall rehab talk was, in fact, just talk, surely we'd start hearing rumors about them shopping the land to prospective investors/developers. 

I know the land on which CRM sits is bound to be worth a ton more than $3M, but I wonder how much it would cost to flatten the place for some entirely new development? Surely that would be a (very) significant chunk of change, not like tearing down an old 7-11...

----------


## Oh GAWD the Smell!

> Why did these clowns buy the mall, only to do nothing they said they were going to? I swear, humans can be so moronic at times. Makes me ashamed to be called a human.


Well if I had that kind of money laying around...I'd have bought it too.

Just to race go-carts in.

Probably a good thing I don't have that kind of money laying around.

----------


## Soonerman

Hopefully they can get some anchors in there.

----------


## G.Walker

I think this is about to go under major renovation, saw a bid for a multi-million dollar renovation, about time!

----------


## jn1780

> I think this is about to go under major renovation, saw a bid for a multi-million dollar renovation, about time!


Good, hopefully we will here some details soon.

----------


## oneforone

No matter which way they go rather it be demolition or renovation it's going to cost millions. I think the retail days are pretty much over unless IKEA takes over anchor spot. I don't think IKEA would move there. I think there choices would be I-40 West between Yukon and I-44, Edmond on I-35 or Norman on I-35. They are going to want a high traffic area and they will want an area that has a tall crop of their target customer. 

I think it will become an office park and event center. In my opinion the best use would be to convert to a convention center. It could be used for small group conventions, weddings, concerts and other group functions.

----------


## ljbab728

[QUOTE=oneforone;499157I think it will become an office park and event center. In my opinion the best use would be to convert to a convention center. It could be used for small group conventions, weddings, concerts and other group functions.[/QUOTE]

Unless they tear it down and rebuild, it's much too large and ill suited for that.

----------


## Thunder

oneforone, retail are not close to being over.  lol

As for IKEA, if they are something special that people will always go out of their way to get to their store, then it doesn't matter where they locate.  Crossroads Mall is such a prime location, I think IKEA should move in.  If they do that, then watch the flock of retailers rushing in, because people are gonna be flocking in.

----------


## soonerliberal

For all the Crossroads patriots who still believe in the place, I would strongly suggest that you find an example of a "dead mall" or near-dead one that was magically brought back to life in a different form.  It has happened, but the places where they survive a second life are areas with MUCH more favorable 5-mile demographic data than Crossroads.  You would be hard pressed to find a mall having a dramatic rejuvenation with similar demographics of the Crossroads.  Good luck though!

As for Ikea, if you look at where most of the American ones are located (Dallas, Houston, Colorado, Virginia, Atlanta, and Maryland are the ones I am familiar with), they tend to be located in suburban, trendy, or college areas, making Norman or Edmond the likeliest places, IF one comes to OKC.

----------


## SoonerDave

> For all the Crossroads patriots who still believe in the place, I would strongly suggest that you find an example of a "dead mall" or near-dead one that was magically brought back to life in a different form.


Penn Square comes to mind for one, and it came back quite vibrantly as retail. Shepherd Mall came back as repurposed business space. 

PSM back in the roughly eighties era was a desolate wasteland, an open-air mall stuck with 60's painted brick veneers, empty stores, a few anchor tenants, and not much of a future. Business was being drawn away by Crossroads to the south and Quail Springs to the north. Investors came along with this ridiculous plan to enclose it, add a second floor, overhaul the interior, and the rest as they say is history. 

Shepherd Mall was, in its day, a somewhat "suburban" mall in that it was north of downtown (although by today's standards it isn't that far away), and it started dying a slow death very much in the vein of Crossroads. It was particularly distinctive for the fact that it featured a movie theater, some rather eccentric shops, along with traditional anchor tenants like what was then called Dillards Brown Dunkin and the old JCPenny. As that area faded economically, so did Shepherd Mall, and a walk through was a sad tour through a cavernous empty space, until it was "re-imagined" as a commercial space rather than retail. Last time I checked, its still there.

Now, before I get blasted by the "plow-down-Crossroads-its-a-gangbanger-wasteland" crowd, I am NOT, repeat NOT predicting that the same thing is possible with Crossroads. I am replying to the query that sought examples of revived malls presumed dead and unrestoreable. It can be done. Crossroads represents perhaps the biggest rehabilitation project of any in this region, and I would say the probability of failure is high, but if someone's willing to give it a shot, power to 'em. Maybe it will work. Maybe it won't. I'm not at all smart enough to make an absolutist prediction either way. We'll just have to see how it works out.

----------


## soonerliberal

Let me clarify... try to find a similar mall situated in a similar location with similar demographics in a different city.

----------


## oneforone

Honestly, I would love to see the place comeback however, I am looking at the situation with a realstic attitude. The mall is old and likely cost more to operate then a store that can be built from the ground up. You also have to look at the fact the customer base is gone. Even if you could revamp the place and bring quality tenants back it will never do the traffic count it used to bring. You have to factor in that people have switched back to driving just a few miles from home. People are no longer drive all over the place to do their shopping. Gasoline cost too much to blow through it like it's candy. In Crossroads prime, $20 is the most people paid for a tank of gas. Now people are averaging $50-$75 a tank. Not to mention malls had the bulk of the stores. Today you can shop most of your favorite store in less then 10 minutes from your house.

----------


## ljbab728

> You have to factor in that people have switched back to driving just a few miles from home. People are no longer drive all over the place to do their shopping. Gasoline cost too much to blow through it like it's candy. In Crossroads prime, $20 is the most people paid for a tank of gas. Now people are averaging $50-$75 a tank. Not to mention malls had the bulk of the stores. Today you can shop most of your favorite store in less then 10 minutes from your house.


I think if you did a survey at the new Outlet Mall you would find out that that's not true.

----------


## jn1780

> Honestly, I would love to see the place comeback however, I am looking at the situation with a realstic attitude. The mall is old and likely cost more to operate then a store that can be built from the ground up. You also have to look at the fact the customer base is gone. Even if you could revamp the place and bring quality tenants back it will never do the traffic count it used to bring. You have to factor in that people have switched back to driving just a few miles from home. People are no longer drive all over the place to do their shopping. Gasoline cost too much to blow through it like it's candy. In Crossroads prime, $20 is the most people paid for a tank of gas. Now people are averaging $50-$75 a tank. Not to mention malls had the bulk of the stores. Today you can shop most of your favorite store in less then 10 minutes from your house.


If it was a gas issue you would think the reverse would be true. People would like to drive to one centralized location for all their goods instead of driving to all these different stores.  Maybe in 30 years when gas is ridiculously expensive and malls are integrated into a mass transit system they will make a comeback.

----------


## SoonerDave

> Honestly, I would love to see the place comeback however, I am looking at the situation with a realstic attitude. The mall is old and likely cost more to operate then a store that can be built from the ground up. You also have to look at the fact the customer base is gone. Even if you could revamp the place and bring quality tenants back it will never do the traffic count it used to bring. You have to factor in that people have switched back to driving just a few miles from home. People are no longer drive all over the place to do their shopping. Gasoline cost too much to blow through it like it's candy. In Crossroads prime, $20 is the most people paid for a tank of gas. Now people are averaging $50-$75 a tank. Not to mention malls had the bulk of the stores. *Today you can shop most of your favorite store in less then 10 minutes from your house.*


Crossroads, in its heyday, sported well over 100 stores, four anchor tenants, and to this day is barely 15 minutes from my front door, and I know for a fact I'm in a stone's throw of one of the highest disposable income demographic regions in the state. With two major interstates going by the property, and the nearest alternative "mass shopping center" in Moore a much greater hassle (IMHO) to access, it would seem to me the proximity argument mitigates *in favor* of some resuscitation of Crossroads.

----------


## oneforone

Nobody knows what they future will bring for Crossroads. If the place was destined to take off, somebody would have jumped on it the day it went to county foreclosure auction with a starting bid of $9 Million. Nobody bid on it. That by itself tells me the future is not too bright for Crossroads. Besides why get in a heated discussion about this place. Nobody here owns it. Nobody here has the means to invest in it and return it to it's former glory. 

I think it stands a better chance of becoming the new location of Old Paris Flea Market then becoming a mall. Besides ODOT will rebuilding the 240/35 interchange coming in the next few years. That alone will kill the remaining businesses at Crossroads.

----------


## SoonerDave

> I think it stands a better chance of becoming the new location of Old Paris Flea Market then becoming a mall. *Besides ODOT will rebuilding the 240/35 interchange coming in the next few years.* That alone will kill the remaining businesses at Crossroads.


The interchange rebuild is, at minimum, ten years away. 

Don't have a link to the thread wherein this was discussed, all I remember was how depressed I was in reading it and realizing how many more accidents and injuries will take place in this area because of the long delay between now and the rebuild.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> The interchange rebuild is, at minimum, ten years away. 
> 
> Don't have a link to the thread wherein this was discussed, all I remember was how depressed I was in reading it and realizing how many more accidents and injuries will take place in this area because of the long delay between now and the rebuild.


it will start in 2015 

GRADE, DRAIN & SURFACE
I-240: EB TO SB I-35 AT CROSSROADS INTERCHANGE (PHASE IA)
09032(17) FFY 2015
OKLAHOMA Div. 4 IS035 0.500 Mi. $4,000,000

then in 2018 

INTERCHANGE
I-35: OVER THE I-240 JCT. (PHASE I) RECONSTR INTERCHG.
09032(05) FFY 2018
OKLAHOMA Div. 4 IS035 1.000 Mi. $14,233,431

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## megax11

I really can't stand when idiots buy something, get peoples' hopes up about said place, then just leave it be.

These goofballs at Raptor LLC obviously either had too much ambition, but were nothing but amateurs, or just wanted to buy it to make some small bank.

I called a store today, in that mall. They stated that 579 is closing today. Hot Topic is about to close. Gamestop there is about to close as well.

So in trying to keep people there and get new merchants, these guys sure aren't doing a good job, as three more stores are now leaving.

So unless they are allowing stores to close, so they can do renovations, the people who bought the mall are seeing their plans go straight down the crapper. Sucky owners are sucky.

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## megax11

> I think this is about to go under major renovation, saw a bid for a multi-million dollar renovation, about time!


Where did you see this? As I stated above, 3 stores are about to move out. 579 closes today, Hot Topic and Gamestop. If stores are leaving why would there be renovation? Wouldn't that be taking a risk?

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## Swake2

> I really can't stand when idiots buy something, get peoples' hopes up about said place, then just leave it be.
> 
> These goofballs at Raptor LLC obviously either had too much ambition, but were nothing but amateurs, or just wanted to buy it to make some small bank.
> 
> I called a store today, in that mall. They stated that 579 is closing today. Hot Topic is about to close. Gamestop there is about to close as well.
> 
> So in trying to keep people there and get new merchants, these guys sure aren't doing a good job, as three more stores are now leaving.
> 
> So unless they are allowing stores to close, so they can do renovations, the people who bought the mall are seeing their plans go straight down the crapper. Sucky owners are sucky.


Won't be long now before it costs to much to keep the heat and air going.

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## Spartan

> I really can't stand when idiots buy something, get peoples' hopes up about said place, then just leave it be.
> 
> These goofballs at Raptor LLC obviously either had too much ambition, but were nothing but amateurs, or just wanted to buy it to make some small bank.
> 
> I called a store today, in that mall. They stated that 579 is closing today. Hot Topic is about to close. Gamestop there is about to close as well.
> 
> So in trying to keep people there and get new merchants, these guys sure aren't doing a good job, as three more stores are now leaving.
> 
> So unless they are allowing stores to close, so they can do renovations, the people who bought the mall are seeing their plans go straight down the crapper. Sucky owners are sucky.


I don't know if you're being serious or not, but you do understand that this is totally off of the OKC development radar? OKC itself (not Moore or MWC) is starting to get more serious about southside retail, and that includes accepting that Crossroads will never come back. I fully expect that Crossroads will be boarded up and just sit there, and if you think that's shocking, I know of a power plant on prime real estate up at Belle Isle circa 1980-2000 that I'd love to interest you in...

I understand the southside perspective because that's where I grew up, and when we weren't living in Houston, we were on the southside. All my family is on the southside. I remember going to that mall a lot back in the 90s, even when we were just coming up for family christmas holidays and so on. It's just a sign of the times. 

There are much better opportunities that have opened up for this city in terms of retail, especially downtown, inner north side, and I can't say enough about the planned development around Nichols Hills right now. The SW 44th Street corridor has been identified as strategic for southside retail, and now the city is investing in infrastructure and aesthetic improvements along there (you may have noticed the new decorative intersections going in at 44th/Western and 44th/Walker). If you really want to see a strong southside, I would be excited about that in particular.

You have to understand that Crossroads was a bad project to begin with. It was just very indicative of a time (60s-70s) in which developers made a lot of bad mistakes. They were convinced that OKC would grow to the SE, not the NW. They were dead-wrong as it turns out. Furthermore, even if they had chosen the right location, Crossroads is old sprawl, and sprawl doesn't last very long. Crossroads would be getting replaced by something out at Draper right now if that was indeed the direction OKC would be growing in. This is where sustainability comes into play, we have to make sure that our development in the future stands the test of time, rather than answering the temporary needs of today. That's what city planning should be doing, but as we know, it doesn't always do its job all that well in this city, even today.

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## Soonerman

Just tear it down.

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## SoonerDave

Actually, OKC grew to the *southwest*, not the southeast. Some of Oklahoma's highest per-capita income demographics are centered smack-dab in the SW 104th and Penn area and surrounding, oh, two or three-mile radius, which is just SW of Crossroads. Had they planned a few miles west, or even south, it would likely be thriving. Alas, hindsight.

About 44th - Given that its now heavily a medical campus due to the expanding presence of Integris, and that it also seems Sears is going to fold up tents just about any day now, I can't see SW 44th and Western becoming anything interesting at a retail level anytime soon. Head either direction from 44th and Western and its just not very appealing either direction. I remember when we used to frequent that location and the Sequoyah-Reding Shopping Center, with Streets, Dodson's Cafeteria, etc, etc. Not anymore.

----------


## SoonerDave

> There are much better opportunities that have opened up for this city in terms of retail, especially downtown, inner north side, and I can't say enough about the planned development around Nichols Hills right now. The SW 44th Street corridor has been identified as strategic for southside retail, and now the city is investing in infrastructure and aesthetic improvements along there (you may have noticed the new decorative intersections going in at 44th/Western and 44th/Walker). If you really want to see a strong southside, I would be excited about that in particular.


I live in SW OKC, and I haven't been anywhere near 44th and Western since I was a kid. New retail is pulling people south (to Moore and Norman) and southwest (Tri City), not north, so if the city really is pouring money into 44th street as a new "retail corridor," that's a project that's failed before it starts.




> You have to understand that Crossroads was a bad project to begin with.


No it wasn't.  The statement implies the mall was never successful, which simply isn't accurate.




> ...They were convinced that OKC would grow to the SE, not the NW. They were dead-wrong as it turns out. Furthermore, even if they had chosen the right location, Crossroads is old sprawl, and sprawl doesn't last very long. Crossroads would be getting replaced by something out at Draper right now if that was indeed the direction OKC would be growing in. This is where sustainability comes into play, we have to make sure that our development in the future stands the test of time, rather than answering the temporary needs of today. That's what city planning should be doing, but as we know, it doesn't always do its job all that well in this city, even today.


Don't know if I agree with all that. Crossroads was a very successful regional hallmark over its first 10-15 or so years of existence, which pushes up to about 1987. Developers could not have predicted the blight emerging *from the north and west* combined with the industrial presence that would make the area decreasingly attractive. As for it being "old sprawl," that logic would have precluded the redevelopment of Penn Square - heck, it was an open-air, 1960's throwback that had at best a modest future until someone came in with the audacious plan of expanding it and enclosing it. The mistake Crossroads developers did make, however, was misjudging growth to the SE rather than the S and SW, as I noted in another post.

----------


## ljbab728

> The mistake Crossroads developers did make, however, was misjudging growth to the SE rather than the S and SW, as I noted in another post.


I don't see that as an issue in their problems.  It takes 5 minutes to get there from the I44 - I240 junction and there is much more traffic in the I240 - I35 area.

----------


## SoonerDave

> I don't see that as an issue in their problems.  It takes 5 minutes to get there from the I44 - I240 junction and there is much more traffic in the I240 - I35 area.


While I understand and agree that the real, practical distance to those areas is very short, I'm thinking in terms of their appeal to that area over the long haul. That is, Crossroads is unintentionally bounded to the north and west by industrial, nasty Valley Brook, and some rather distressed housing development(s). Had Crossroads been built, say, on the SW corner of that same interchange, or perhaps even, say, a mile or two farther south, they would *already* have been reaping the benefits being realized by the Moore shops, and not been nearly so affected by the above factors. As much as anything, Crossroads became paralyzed (right or wrong) in the eyes of many because of its location. I just think there's an irony in realizing a relatively slight move in its location could have yielded an extraordinary difference in its future. Given the development of other retail to the west (all along I-240) and down I-35 (into Moore), it was clear the developers had the right idea. They just didn't aim the location dart quite right when they started turning shovels.

Speculation, I realize. Obviously, we'll never know what might have happened.

----------


## ljbab728

> While I understand and agree that the real, practical distance to those areas is very short, I'm thinking in terms of their appeal to that area over the long haul. That is, Crossroads is unintentionally bounded to the north and west by industrial, nasty Valley Brook, and some rather distressed housing development(s). Had Crossroads been built, say, on the SW corner of that same interchange, or perhaps even, say, a mile or two farther south, they would *already* have been reaping the benefits being realized by the Moore shops, and not been nearly so affected by the above factors. As much as anything, Crossroads became paralyzed (right or wrong) in the eyes of many because of its location. I just think there's an irony in realizing a relatively slight move in its location could have yielded an extraordinary difference in its future. Given the development of other retail to the west (all along I-240) and down I-35 (into Moore), it was clear the developers had the right idea. They just didn't aim the location dart quite right when they started turning shovels.
> 
> Speculation, I realize. Obviously, we'll never know what might have happened.


Yes it is speculation but, as I've mentioned before, I started shopping at Crossroad from the time it first opened.  I never once gave any thought to the surrounding area when deciding to go there.  I think that was a minimal influence on why it started failing.

----------


## oneforone

There are some investment groups that are known as mall slumlords. They buy a mall with the notion of "If traffic returns, we will put a little money into it. If not we milk the cow until she is dry and try to market it to somebody/some sucker we can sell it to for a profit." 

I think the right people could turn the place around however, there are much hotter properties in Oklahoma City right now.

----------


## SoonerDave

> Yes it is speculation but, as I've mentioned before, I started shopping at Crossroad from the time it first opened.  I never once gave any thought to the surrounding area when deciding to go there.  I think that was a minimal influence on why it started failing.


It isn't about what the area was *then*, it's about what it became over time. My family and I started shopping there when it first opened as well, and in 1974, the areas I mentioned above were in nowhere near the condition they are today, and Valley Brook didn't have quite the reputation it does now. Of *course* we gave no thought to the surrounding area. The gang influence that infiltrated SE OKC moved that way over a period of two-plus decades, into that very area as it aged and deteriorated. No way any developer short of having a crystal ball could have predicted that's how the region would unfold. My point is that the irony is that if they had built Crossroads one or two miles west, or south, and that surrounding environment doesn't "close in" on the mall the same way, if at all. 

Generally, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one  :Smile:   I remember numerous threads right here on this forum that tried to tell people that Crossroads, when it was at least still fighting for life, was a deathtrap and you'd get blown away by gangs in the parking lot (yes, I remember threads that had that very theme, and it was ridiculous).

Given the number of times I'd heard it described that way, the number of people who spread exaggerated rumors about it, all coupled with the reality of the gang presence in the mall, I just can't go along with the idea that the perception of Crossroads as a "gangbanger haven" wasn't a significant negative influence (among many) over time contributing to its demise.

Like I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree  :Smile:

----------


## megax11

Just goes to show that journalists here in OKC don't have a clue what to write stories about.

Had I been a journalist, I'd be knocking on the door of Raptor Properties LLC, and asking Mike Dillard what the deal is. Then I would prod and ask "so are you one of those buyers who bought and never truly intended on fixing it up? Did you really just want to make some profit?"

Fail Oklahoma journalists are fail.

----------


## metro

> Just goes to show that journalists here in OKC don't have a clue what to write stories about.
> 
> Had I been a journalist, I'd be knocking on the door of Raptor Properties LLC, and asking Mike Dillard what the deal is. Then I would prod and ask "so are you one of those buyers who bought and never truly intended on fixing it up? Did you really just want to make some profit?"
> 
> Fail Oklahoma journalists are fail.


 While I disagree that Crossroads has a future as a mall, I do agree Oklahoma journalists (excluding meteorologists) are fail when it comes to investigative journalism.

----------


## MDot

> Just goes to show that journalists here in OKC don't have a clue what to write stories about.
> 
> Had I been a journalist, I'd be knocking on the door of Raptor Properties LLC, and asking Mike Dillard what the deal is. Then I would prod and ask "so are you one of those buyers who bought and never truly intended on fixing it up? Did you really just want to make some profit?"
> 
> Fail Oklahoma journalists are fail.


Why don't you just do that anyways instead of making all journalists seem mentally handicapped (even if they are) because they don't report on the story you want? LOL

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## megax11

I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to know what's going on with the mall. Us citizens/fans of the mall want to stop being bounced around and teased, by people who say they care to fix something up, but really intend to do nothing.

Journalists and news sites were quick to break the news of its sale, why are they not asking when said TLC (as one of the owers on the news put it) is going to be initiated on the mall?

----------


## Jesseda

Wonder if someone will call crossroads mall as a unofficial okctalk reporter and get the scoop

----------


## MDot

> I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to know what's going on with the mall. Us citizens/fans of the mall want to stop being bounced around and teased, by people who say they care to fix something up, but really intend to do nothing.
> 
> Journalists and news sites were quick to break the news of its sale, why are they not asking when said TLC (as one of the owers on the news put it) is going to be initiated on the mall?


I know you're not the only one because I grew up right down the street from it and my great-grandparents still live by there. My great-grandma is always asking me about it and I have a lot of friends in the area as well that ask about it so you're obviously not the only one who cares but the only ones that really care are the people in the general vicinity or the ones with sentimental ties to the mall such as myself since I grew up right by it and went there almost everyday with my great-grandparents. 

It does seem like they're just toying with us and sitting on the mall trying to earn a few bucks but personally I highly doubt it will come back as a mall anyways, which is sad but sometimes reality hurts. I hope they can salvage it but I'm not going to cross my fingers until someone with actual plans buys it or these two goons move along with their "plans".

And for the record, I was just kidding with what I said too you which it seems like you knew but I'm just throwing that out there. I would like some.sort of report on it as well.

----------


## scootinger

> I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to know what's going on with the mall. Us citizens/fans of the mall want to stop being bounced around and teased, by people who say they care to fix something up, but really intend to do nothing.
> 
> Journalists and news sites were quick to break the news of its sale, why are they not asking when said TLC (as one of the owers on the news put it) is going to be initiated on the mall?


You have to realize...the probability that Crossroads will be a retail destination again (in any manner resembling its current state) is close to zero. Keeping it a traditional retail shopping mall is probably not a viable option for Dillard. I'm supposing that he is considering other options (if he's looking at any near-term plans).

Go do some research and look into dead malls that have deteriorated to the state in which Crossroads is in now. A site like Deadmalls.com is a good start. Very few (if any) ever managed to be revitalized with retail. The ones that were hadn't gone as far downhill as CRM has, or they had some significant advantage that CRM does not (ie location).

Look at this from a business perspective. Even if they decided to renovate the mall for retail use again, why would retailers want to locate there? There are so many other locations in the OKC area that either exist as retail, or would be more desirable than CRM to be built at. Enclosed malls aren't popular to build (or rebuild) anymore. There are quite a few still around that are doing well, but in recent years very few have been built. The trend is to build power centers (like in Moore or I-240), lifestyle centers, or urban retail.

Plus there's the fact that most of the place is vacant...kinda a "chicken and the egg" problem.  It's ~80% empty and has no anchor stores. If you're building a fancy new shopping center from scratch (or if you have a popular one), it's feasible to attract good retailers. They probably get anchors first, then more small retailers. But of all areas in the OKC area that could be built, why would they choose somewhere like CRM that has a bad reputation and is in a less affluent part of town?

The best outcome I could see happening would be for it to be reused for office/public/community purposes in the same way as Shepherd Mall has been. I think that's the direction Heritage Park is heading too. LifeChurch recently opened in an anchor spot, even though the mall's empty (sears is still there i think). The owner of the old MW space (and now the mall itself) rented out the MW building to FEMA for a while, and supposedly wants to turn the mall into an office complex or similar as well.

Or reusing parts of the existing structure and rebuilding the site in a completely different form could be feasible. I know some people have said it would be a good site for TOD given its proximity to the railroad (whenever OK gets commuter rail service). There could be a street grid laid out on the existing site, and perhaps it could be built around some of the anchor buildings. Turning dead mall sites into "town centers"/TODs is becoming common in a lot of areas.

Still, something will probably happen at CRM soon. They're approaching the point where the cost to heat/cool the building and keep whatever staff (security, management, maintenance) they have remaining will exceed the rents they receive. Especially with its size, i can't imagine that climate control is cheap. At that point, i'd imagine they would make the decision to shutter the mall. Hopefully it won't come down to them just letting it sit around and decay for years.

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## Spartan

> Actually, OKC grew to the *southwest*, not the southeast. Some of Oklahoma's highest per-capita income demographics are centered smack-dab in the SW 104th and Penn area and surrounding, oh, two or three-mile radius, which is just SW of Crossroads. Had they planned a few miles west, or even south, it would likely be thriving. Alas, hindsight.
> 
> About 44th - Given that its now heavily a medical campus due to the expanding presence of Integris, and that it also seems Sears is going to fold up tents just about any day now, I can't see SW 44th and Western becoming anything interesting at a retail level anytime soon. Head either direction from 44th and Western and its just not very appealing either direction. I remember when we used to frequent that location and the Sequoyah-Reding Shopping Center, with Streets, Dodson's Cafeteria, etc, etc. Not anymore.


Not a sustainable viewpoint. If you relegate the entire inner southside to dilapidation you've lost the battle for the entire southside. It's almost counter-productive for OKC to invest in anything that orients that entire half of the city more toward Moore/Norman and less toward downtown. We need a strategic investment plan for revitalizing the southside, not a boilerplate one. 44th is also an opportunity to create unique ventures, which is important because we need to focus on long-term planning rather than short-term planning of new strip malls, expecting to abandon those and then expand even further out.

As for your own assessment of the southside, I agree that the medical presence is definitely a strength. I just don't see it as expanding very much, as the only tangible expansion that Integris as done in the last decade is a one-story cancer treatment center in the back of their campus closer to Grand Blvd. I also don't see Sears closing as inevitable, but rather hard to predict just because they've had pretty low traffic for as long as I can remember and have mysteriously remained in business so far. That massive Sears parking lot, even if they stay in business, is such a prime redevelopment opportunity.

Also consider that the city has already invested in new decorative intersections at Walker and Western, and new sidewalks and lighting between. 44th can become a smashing urban redevelopment target. It can revitalize the southside AND it can benefit people south of 240 by offering services and businesses that are unique, and it's still a lot closer than 19th in Moore or points further south.

At some point you absolutely have to start developing the southside in a way that's better for OKC, not Moore. The southside is NOT a lost cause, especially if you find the right opportunity. There are a lot of opportunities there, if you look at strategic available land, high traffic counts, already needed basic infrastructure investments, existing urban fabric, and how all of this can possibly come together in a dynamic redevelopment scheme. Then not only are you talking about building a strip mall with a Target and Best Buy on 134th (won't ever happen, both have existing stores way too close, but just to show an example), but then you're talking about those resources existing in a more urban, newer, fresher environment that injects a lot of vitality. One opportunity that I know a huge need exists for is a movie theater somewhere around Capitol Hill, which could serve as the anchor catalyst to get other major redevelopment going.

I also agree that there are a lot of places that would be failed projects even before conception. I'm not saying that these kinds of opportunities exist anywhere along 59th or Grand Boulevard. 44th is centrally located for the southside, has the strategic available land, very high traffic counts, and 44th is also a much nicer corridor than 59th, which will be a bigger problem in terms of dilapidation, and it may just be that the southside makes dramatic improvement while 59th remains a pocket of dilapidation (ala Lyrewood or 122nd/Penn). 44th is easily "nice enough" to work with and build on, and I believe that the southside will eventually come back if you look at the exploding population even in old areas, the rising economic profile of the Hispanic community in OKC, the proximity to Core2Shore and quick/easy commutes downtown, and especially the sheer economic opportunity caused by the southside being a retail black hole for the last 20 years.

There is simply no way that anything further out, more suburban has as much potential for success. I think even people with a suburban preference should be in favor of 44th over anything else on the southside. At some point you have to lay aside that suburban preference and recognize what is best for the southside, just as all of OKC has understood the importance of Downtown OKC in relation to the rest of the city. Granted, southsiders never subscribed to that point of view (it was the Hornet nest of "Not This MAPS" afterall) yet I think part of that is because the southside is too detached from downtown, and also because there's this "that doesn't help our side of town" mentality. So at some point, the southside has to especially be concerned with holistic planning. Something badly needs to be done for the entire southside.

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## Spartan

> Don't know if I agree with all that. Crossroads was a very successful regional hallmark over its first 10-15 or so years of existence, which pushes up to about 1987. Developers could not have predicted the blight emerging *from the north and west* combined with the industrial presence that would make the area decreasingly attractive. As for it being "old sprawl," that logic would have precluded the redevelopment of Penn Square - heck, it was an open-air, 1960's throwback that had at best a modest future until someone came in with the audacious plan of expanding it and enclosing it. The mistake Crossroads developers did make, however, was misjudging growth to the SE rather than the S and SW, as I noted in another post.


I don't think you can compare Crossroads in any way to Penn Square, which is a thriving operation today in spite of its building form. Indoor malls across the nation are dying. It's not just what I say, but it's also the proven trend, so much so that Dillard and JCP and most other anchors have said they won't be adding any more of those types of locations. Dillard is even trying to get out of the indoor malls as fast as they possibly can. Penn Square thrives today because it is surrounded on all sides by an upscale customer base and their location is seen as the "epicenter" of the northside. 

Crossroads was very successful for its first 15 years of existence, absolutely no denying that. However what went wrong isn't just unique to Crossroads, but rather symptomatic of indoor malls all over the nation. I think today you can see Quail Springs beginning to whither away, being held up by its location on a major retail corridor where most everything else is new or redeveloped. Quail Springs doesn't have the upscale profile of Penn Square, so it's not unique. It won't have anything that allows it to compete with newer, better options that will inevitably emerge along its own corridor. In fact, the Quail Springs Village once-proposed between the mall and NW 150th might have been just that.

I'm also confused by your stressed point that the dilapidation, in relation to Crossroads Mall, is to the north and west. That's the southside. That was the original demographic that anchored Crossroads to begin with. The mall was built, almost adjoined at the hip (rather than in the heart, the head, etc) to compare geography and anatomy. I understand that you're trying to allude to a larger argument that the southside actually did not just lose out to the northside, but it's a hard argument to support. Virtually every possible elite service is on the northside. There is nothing that is south, but not north, not even in terms of the Hispanic community. Stretching further south, or redefining the southside continuously and just moving the boundaries further and further south, is simply not a logical, practical, nor honest solution. You also mention the Tri "Cities" and I agree there has been some home building in that direction, but come on--one Walmart and a Mexican restaurant do not qualify a legitimate building trend. Nor does it predict one.

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## oneforone

INTEGRIS recently expanded/renovated the surgery department at Southwest Medical Center. They have also given the first floor a face lift and renovations were just completed on the 9th floor of the hospital. They are currently in the process of completing a new window installation and repainting the hospital tower. At one time they were considering by the apartment complex to the north of the hospital. Unfortunately the owner wanted an outrageous prices for the property.

At this time I think one or two things will likely happen if Sears closes. INTEGRIS or Walmart would likely buy the property. If INTEGRIS were to buy it the lot would like be  as overflow/employee parking. This would allow the hospital to expand out closer to Western. The new space would likely be used as conference center space and for out patient procedures. The only thing I have ever heard of expansion wise is growing/remodeling ER and adding Intensive Care Units. The neuroscience and stroke units may also be expanded. The remaining inpatient side is about as big as it's going to get. Facelifts are about the only things on the board.

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## kbsooner

> At this time I think one or two things will likely happen if Sears closes. INTEGRIS or Walmart would likely buy the property.


Why would Walmart have any interest in this property?

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## SoonerDave

> I don't think you can compare Crossroads in any way to Penn Square, which is a thriving operation today in spite of its building form. Indoor malls across the nation are dying. It's not just what I say, but it's also the proven trend, so much so that Dillard and JCP and most other anchors have said they won't be adding any more of those types of locations. Dillard is even trying to get out of the indoor malls as fast as they possibly can. Penn Square thrives today because it is surrounded on all sides by an upscale customer base and their location is seen as the "epicenter" of the northside. 
> 
> Crossroads was very successful for its first 15 years of existence, absolutely no denying that. However what went wrong isn't just unique to Crossroads, but rather symptomatic of indoor malls all over the nation. I think today you can see Quail Springs beginning to whither away, being held up by its location on a major retail corridor where most everything else is new or redeveloped. Quail Springs doesn't have the upscale profile of Penn Square, so it's not unique. It won't have anything that allows it to compete with newer, better options that will inevitably emerge along its own corridor. In fact, the Quail Springs Village once-proposed between the mall and NW 150th might have been just that.
> 
> I'm also confused by your stressed point that the dilapidation, in relation to Crossroads Mall, is to the north and west. That's the southside. That was the original demographic that anchored Crossroads to begin with. The mall was built, almost adjoined at the hip (rather than in the heart, the head, etc) to compare geography and anatomy. I understand that you're trying to allude to a larger argument that the southside actually did not just lose out to the northside, but it's a hard argument to support. Virtually every possible elite service is on the northside. There is nothing that is south, but not north, not even in terms of the Hispanic community.* Stretching further south, or redefining the southside continuously and just moving the boundaries further and further south, is simply not a logical, practical, nor honest solution. You also mention the Tri "Cities" and I agree there has been some home building in that direction, but come on--one Walmart and a Mexican restaurant do not qualify a legitimate building trend. Nor does it predict one.*


Spartan, while I typically find myself on the opposite end of the opinion spectrum with you, I will offer that you typically lay out a sound basis for your opinion, but this time its simply shortsighted or, at a minimum, disingenuous. 

Let me take the two most telling points individually




> I'm also confused by your stressed point that the dilapidation, in relation to Crossroads Mall, is to the north and west. *That's the southside. That was the original demographic that anchored Crossroads to begin with.* The mall was built, almost adjoined at the hip (rather than in the heart, the head, etc) to compare geography and anatomy.


No, it isn't, Spartan, and if you'd join the rest of us in the year 2012, you'd realize how silly it sounds to pretend S. OKC is so tightly constrained. Spartan, you're too smart to try and argue this without people breaking out in laughter. If you truly believe that the business case for Crossroads was anchored north and west of its location, you're simply not dealing with reality. In fact, the notion contradicts your prior assertions that the developers misjudged OKC's growth to the SE - *obviously* Crossroads location was chosen for its proximity _to where growth was going to occur._ As *you* accurately pointed out, the growth wasn't that direction - it was to the south and *west*. But now you're saying they intended to remain viable solely due to their *ties* north and west? To Valley Brook and S. Shields? Seriously? 

I realize this has been a bone of contention for you for some time, but the argument you make continues to pretend that south Oklahoma City doesn't really exist sound of about SW 59th or perhaps SW 74th. The reality is that a very vibrant, economically strong South OKC extends *well* past this boundary. Like it or not, those areas *most certainly are* part of the *current* South OKC. The southside *most certainly* redefines itself as the city grows, *whether you like it or not.* How could it be anything less than an honest assessment of the region than to recognize the growth south and southwest? The highest-income demographic *in the city* is centered around SW 104th and Penn, near Chatenay Square, Rivendell, Lakeridge Run, and Greenbriar, even as far east as the old Ranchwood Manor area. 

We can put blinders on and pretend OKC is still constrained by a perimeter defined by 1960's population standards, but it just isn't reality. The folks in Moore and Norman are *delighted* to hear that some people believe S. OKC stops at SW 74th, because they're delighted to collect sales taxes from those presumably nonexistent folks living in South OKC who are heading to *their* cities to spend their monies on the retail *they've* built and are building.




> (Re Tricities) I agree there has been some home building in that direction, but come on--one Walmart and a Mexican restaurant do not qualify a legitimate building trend


C'mon, Spartan, you can't be that myopic (or willingly naive?) about the development in the corridor between SW OKC and TriCities. Just as a matter of information, the Airport Trust is opening hotel and retail development along the SE region of their property on the west side of I-44 between (roughly) SW 89th and proceeding south to SW 134th. Saints just opened its new emergency hospital on the east side of I-44 near 134th. I've also been told that OKC leaders were *delighted* at the prospect of even more development along that corridor to keep *south OKC residents* from going to TriCity and spending their sales tax dollars there rather than in OKC. So even if you don't believe that's a vital corridor, a great many other people do - including those who believe there is money to be made. 




> I understand that you're trying to allude to a larger argument that the southside actually did not just lose out to the northside, but it's a hard argument to support. Virtually every possible elite service is on the northside.


Now, you're trying to manufacture an argument I did not make and use it to rationalize a point you want to make - I never said anything of the kind regarding any part of town "losing" to the northside. That smells conspicuously like the tired old northside elitism once prevalent among folks who believed nothing south of Reno should even be acknowledged to exist, and that's no way to plan a city, and I'd sure like to think you're not one of those people possessed of this unfortunate form of urban bigotry.

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## bombermwc

All of this ignores the change of hands of the mall from one bad management group to the next as well. Many different companies owned the place only to take the profits from them to use in other buildings. Simon was known to do that without hiding it. When Heritage was owned by the various companies, the folks that ran day-to-day operations on-site mentioned that was happening at Heritage, so they knew their job would be short-lived there. 

Crossroads saw a complete lack of re-investment in the place. Had that happened, there still could have been some life in the place. New stuff was being built right next to it (because it still had drawing power) until about 10 years ago. The downfall was when Montgomery Ward went bankrupt. The timing lined up with the trend away from the indoor mall. Those that saw the writing on the wall before and had reinvested, were able to survive...ie Penn (by way of stealing from the others). 

Demographics don't really have a ton to do with it. Look at Heritage Park. The EOC continues to grow with an ever increasing income....and just like the south side, it's growing out, thus expanding the "limit". But when the place is met with hurdle after hurdle that it's not allowed to overcome, then it's doomed.

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