# OKCpedia > General Real Estate Topics >  OKC vs. Charlotte Skylines

## Pete

This subject has come up several times so I thought I would give it it's own thread.

Below is a comparison between the tallest buildings in downtown Charlotte vs. those of OKC.  There are a lot of similarities, such as the number and size of tall buildings before an unusually tall addition to the skyline:  For Charlotte it was the BofA Tower in 1992 and for OKC it was Devon Tower in 2012.

The buildings listed below each highlighted row are sorted in terms of size; above they are sorted by date added.


In the 18 years since the BofA building was constructed in Charlotte, they have had 13 buildings erected of near 300 feet or more.  And three of them are taller than their long-reigning tallest building (Chase Tower would be the corollary in OKC).


Fun to think about OKC 18 years post-Devon:

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## Stew

I'm going to be in Charlotte Friday so this will certainly give me something to ponder.

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## UnFrSaKn

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j2...lotteokc-1.jpg

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## TheSocialGadfly

> http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j2...lotteokc-1.jpg


Where's the Chase Tower?

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## UnFrSaKn

"Cotter Ranch Tower"

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## Pete

> Where's the Chase Tower?


9th from the left.

It's official name is Cotter Ranch Tower.

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## TheSocialGadfly

> 9th from the left.
> 
> It's official name is Cotter Ranch Tower.


I just recognized the tower probably when you typed this.  My bad.

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## SOONER8693

Wow. This is almost like comparing the skyline of Enid to OKC.

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## zookeeper

I love Charlotte's skyline. The architecture is so much more than the steel and glass of so many cities. Thanks for the chart Pete!

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## Mississippi Blues

> Wow. This is almost like comparing the skyline of Enid to OKC.


Except Enid has no chance within the next 200 years of having OKC's skyline, while OKC's skyline has a very good -- maybe even great -- chance of being like Charlotte's in the next 20 or so years. 

Maybe if we were talking about the city 250 miles to the southwest (Atlanta) of Charlotte, but Charlotte itself is not some crazy, out of this world comparison like you make it seem.

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## Just the facts

The one big difference is that Charlotte has a much denser and widespread urban fabric.  If only we had all those 5 to 15 story buildings back.  Downtown OKC could probably learn more from downtown Greensboro, NC than it can from downtown Charlotte.

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## bchris02

Charlotte's skyline is magnificent and I do miss their downtown and its urban fabric.  To really see the comparison, you have to look at the Charlotte of the mid-90s.  Back then, they just built the Bank of America tower and after that they saw a major building boom.  If OKC adds a few more corporate towers, the convention center hotel, and a couple of high-rise residential towers it will be a lot closer to Charlotte.  I also think Charlotte is an excellent comparison because they lack a lot of the art deco cities like Tulsa have, but still have constructed a very modern, appealing skyline.  Charlotte also has a ton of surface parking in their downtown, something OKC doesn't have so if everything gets built that is discussed in the Mystery Tower thread, it may be on their level by 2020.  Charlotte right now is having a very rough time economically so its doubtful anything major will be built any time soon (which is why I moved from there).  On the flipside, OKC should see a building boom as long as there isn't a major collapse in the oil/gas industry.

Even if OKC's skyline doesn't become as magnificent as Charlotte's, it should still blow away most other cities in the 1.3-1.5 million range after these new towers get built.

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## Pete

I think we have a very, very good chance to have a similar skyline to Charlotte over the next 10-15 years.

As stated, after their monster building was constructed they have since added 3 more buildings taller than their previous best.  I bet we get there sooner than the 18 years it took them.  In fact, there is a good chance we'll get two of those three in just the next few years.

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## bchris02

> The one big difference is that Charlotte has a much denser and widespread urban fabric.  If only we had all those 5 to 15 story buildings back.  Downtown OKC could probably learn more from downtown Greensboro, NC than it can from downtown Charlotte.


Most of their urban fabric was built recently.  Charlotte had a similar urban renewal disaster akin to OKC's Pei Plan.  Much of their low/mid-rise residential was built following the construction of their light rail.  If OKC builds a single light rail line from downtown to Edmond and/or Norman, look for things to rapidly increase in density.

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## Pete

Yes, I interviewed for a job in the BofA Tower in Charlotte in the mid 90's and there wasn't a whole lot else there at the time.

Almost everything they have was built recently and frankly, in many ways they had less to work with than we do now.

There is absolutely no reason that OKC can't have the same type of downtown within the next 10-15 years -- and maybe sooner.

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## hoya

> I think we have a very, very good chance to have a similar skyline to Charlotte over the next 10-15 years.
> 
> As stated, after their monster building was constructed they have since added 3 more buildings taller than their previous best.  I bet we get there sooner than the 18 years it took them.  In fact, there is a good chance we'll get two of those three in just the next few years.


So both projected towers are taller than Chase?

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## Spartan

Not to rain on the parade, but if this is premised based on 2030, Charlotte will probably add as many skyscrapers as we will by then.

Charlotte will probably be exactly what Atlanta is now. As for Atlanta... my little brain does not possess the visionary capacity to foresee what will be made of the ATL.

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## Mississippi Blues

> Not to rain on the parade, but if this is premised based on 2030, Charlotte will probably add as many skyscrapers as we will by then.


We're comparing OKC's future skyline to Charlotte's skyline today, not in 2030.

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## Spartan

> We're comparing OKC's future skyline to Charlotte's skyline today, not in 2030.


Haha, well that doesn't seem exactly fair :P

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## Mississippi Blues

> Haha, well that doesn't seem exactly fair :P


Whatever it takes to make ourselves feel good. :0

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## bchris02

> Not to rain on the parade, but if this is premised based on 2030, Charlotte will probably add as many skyscrapers as we will by then.
> 
> Charlotte will probably be exactly what Atlanta is now. As for Atlanta... my little brain does not possess the visionary capacity to foresee what will be made of the ATL.


That depends on the economy.  Charlotte's economy is heavily dependent on banking and they are really hurting right now.  I honestly don't see much getting built in Charlotte without another financial boom.

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## Spartan

Fair enough.

I will point out one thing that OKC is vastly above and beyond Charlotte on: gradual infill surrounding the core

To me, this is the most beautiful, exciting, and livable part of OKC - the vast and growing sea of 2-8 story infill and development that surrounds the CBD for over a half mile to the east and west and over a mile to the north.




I know you guys are bored with all this and want to see skyscrapers, but to me this is more exciting and more positive. Our city is developing very organically with dense infill that is spread out consistently. Charlotte is all new-urbanist and doesn't have any historic fabric to work with, preserve, and *even replicate the scale of*, which to me explains the crux of why that scale is such a win-win for OKC.

The streetcar will take this to the next level.

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## bchris02

^^^ Agree with that.

A friend of mine from Charlotte who actually came to visit OKC after I moved here actually asked me OKC was larger than Charlotte.  He said it felt that way because of the density downtown.  As grand as Charlotte's skyline is, there are gaps and more surface parking mingled in and very close to the CBD and that disrupts urbanity.  Charlotte's spread out development makes for a much grander view from a distance though.

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## Spartan

To impress somebody with a grand view you just have to know to come into downtown on I-40 from the west. It's as good of a skyline panorama as any city under 3 million. The new skyramp from I-40 EB onto the Boulevard will esp have breathtaking views.

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## Mississippi Blues

I love tall skyscrapers, but I also love the infill that you speak of Spartan. I want density as well as height to our skyline, but the stuff going on in Deep Deuce, Bricktown, & Midtown excites me just as much, if not more, than this new skyscraper. 

The first time I went to Atlanta & saw all of the apartments that resemble The Edge in Midtown, I was literally in awe of it. There were more than I could count that made The Edge look like just another development.

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## Spartan

Yup. That's the stuff that real cities are made of. We'll get there.

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## bchris02

Here is another photo I took of the Charlotte skyline from atop a friend's apartment building.  From this angle, you can really see the weaknesses in their skyline and how all the tall buildings are sprawled up Tryon St.

I love all the low/mid-rise residential that is currently there.  It dwarfs OKC right now, but with everything that is being built or proposed we are on our way.

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## TheSocialGadfly

> Here is another photo I took of the Charlotte skyline from atop a friend's apartment building.  From this angle, you can really see the weaknesses in their skyline and how all the tall buildings are sprawled up Tryon St.
> 
> I love all the low/mid-rise residential that is currently there.  It dwarfs OKC right now, but with everything that is being built or proposed we are on our way.


The lights really make this pic, and that's one thing that I'm looking forward to seeing with the potential towers going up in OKC.  Our skyline is really lacking in that department.  Devon added quite a punch, but I'll gladly welcome any improvement from Midfirst, OG&E, or whomever.

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## Mississippi Blues

> The lights really make this pic, and that's one thing that I'm looking forward to seeing with the potential towers going up in OKC.  Our skyline is really lacking in that department.  Devon added quite a punch, but I'll gladly welcome any improvement from Midfirst, OG&E, or whomever.


Your name reminds me of The Great Gatsby. Good point with your post though.

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## metro

And gasp, Charlotte has plenty of lower rise infill with pitched roofs.

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## Teo9969

MidTown, Deep Deuce, Upper Bricktown (really all of Bricktown for that matter) and the CBD are pretty much set to be really strong districts that get incredibly high quality development over the next 10 to 15 years. I really don't think we need to worry about those areas at the end of the day...they'll take care of themselves.

If in the next 12 years (2025) OU HSC becomes well connected to the core, C2S has a strategically laid foundation both for development and economic viability, and the Arts District has seen growth in both development and user-ship, then I think OKC will be in a position for longevity in growth.

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## bchris02

> The lights really make this pic, and that's one thing that I'm looking forward to seeing with the potential towers going up in OKC.  Our skyline is really lacking in that department.  Devon added quite a punch, but I'll gladly welcome any improvement from Midfirst, OG&E, or whomever.


I agree. I really like the punch the Devon tower has given OKC's skyline at night but overall there needs to be more well-lit buildings. Hopefully the new tower(s) deliver in that aspect. I would like to see more rooftop bars/restaurants/music venues facing the skyline in OKC, well placed to provide great urban views on summer nights. There are a few in Charlotte that have really taken off.

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## hoya

I agree with you.  As these new neighborhoods grow together, we'll see great interaction between them and very strong, sustainable economic development.  That will be even more apparent when the streetcar goes in.  Growth to the HSC, possibly up to 23rd street, and then down to Core 2 Shore should happen more quickly once we can build on the success of the initial neighborhoods.

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## Just the facts

> And gasp, Charlotte has plenty of lower rise infill with pitched roofs.


So does Amsterdam.

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## Spartan

> I agree with you.  As these new neighborhoods grow together, we'll see great interaction between them and very strong, sustainable economic development.  That will be even more apparent when the streetcar goes in.  Growth to the HSC, possibly up to 23rd street, and then down to Core 2 Shore should happen more quickly once we can build on the success of the initial neighborhoods.


Yeah, pretty soon I think either "downtown" will vaguely mean a huge area or we'll start referring to it as the Center City as many in the Planning Dept like Russell Claus seem to. Check out aerials of Portland sometime... that's a huge, mostly 3-6 story, sprawling center city. OKC will develop more in that way I think, and less in the way that Charlotte and Dallas have.

Though here is Charlotte's "near future" skyline as I understand it:



To me, Charlotte's skyline looks a lot like Cleveland's, and similar skyline scale as well. The difference though is Cleveland is a lot older, has more 2-5 story infill on the ground, and then the downtown is surrounded by the lake to the north, industrial valley to the south, and then dense, historic districts to the east and west.

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## metro

Look, there's the Ford Center aka Peake in the lower right hand corner.

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## bchris02

^^^ Trump Charlotte, pictured in your first image showing Charlotte's future skyline, has been cancelled. Believe me when I say its not likely Charlotte will be getting a major tower any time soon. They have gone from boomtown to bust-town. We are now five years after the financial collapse and their economy has only barely improved. If things were better there I would still live there because honestly Charlotte is one of my favorite cities.

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## Plutonic Panda

I want some of Charlottes retail centers lol.

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## Pete

Another similarity with Charlotte is they also lack navigable water, which means not only is there not a clear boundary and/or point of focus, their central core was also developed in the same type of grid without a lot of historic building stock.

And beyond downtown, the lack of physical barriers means the city spreads out pretty equally in all directions, which is another similarity to OKC (and Dallas, Houston, Denver and Phoenix, for that matter).

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## bchris02

> I want some of Charlottes retail centers lol.


This is one area where downtown OKC has nothing on Charlotte, not even on a smaller scale. Charlotte has significant retail in its urban core. They also have a very nice Harris Teeter right downtown. Harris Teeter, for those who haven't heard of them, is an awesome grocery chain. Uptown Grocery in Edmond about like a typical Harris Teeter for comparisons sake.

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## Plutonic Panda

> This is one area where downtown OKC has nothing on Charlotte, not even on a smaller scale. Charlotte has significant retail in its urban core. They also have a very nice Harris Teeter right downtown. Harris Teeter, for those who haven't heard of them, is an awesome grocery chain. Uptown Grocery in Edmond about like a typical Harris Teeter for comparisons sake.


I have never of Harris Teeter. I'll check them out!

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## HangryHippo

Harris Teeter is great.

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## Stew

> This is one area where downtown OKC has nothing on Charlotte, not even on a smaller scale. Charlotte has significant retail in its urban core. They also have a very nice Harris Teeter right downtown. Harris Teeter, for those who haven't heard of them, is an awesome grocery chain. Uptown Grocery in Edmond about like a typical Harris Teeter for comparisons sake.


Any restaurant recommendations? I'll be staying next to the Bank of America Stadium.

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## Mississippi Blues

> ^^^ Trump Charlotte, pictured in your first image showing Charlotte's future skyline, has been cancelled. Believe me when I say its not likely Charlotte will be getting a major tower any time soon. They have gone from boomtown to bust-town. We are now five years after the financial collapse and their economy has only barely improved. If things were better there I would still live there because honestly Charlotte is one of my favorite cities.


If I were to live anywhere other than Oklahoma City, Charlotte & Atlanta are the top prospects, but from what I hear from locals in both cities is that the economy in both cities is utter crap.

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## bchris02

> If I were to live anywhere other than Oklahoma City, Charlotte & Atlanta are the top prospects, but from what I hear from locals in both cities is that the economy in both cities is utter crap.


Unfortunately that is the case. I couldn't find a job in three years in Charlotte but had one within a month of moving here.

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## bchris02

> Any restaurant recommendations? I'll be staying next to the Bank of America Stadium.


If you want upscale, I would recommend Chima uptown or Copper in Southend. I would also hit up Wild Wing Cafe in the Epicentre (amazing hot wings).

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## adaniel

> If I were to live anywhere other than Oklahoma City, Charlotte & Atlanta are the top prospects, but from what I hear from locals in both cities is that the economy in both cities is utter crap.


Can't speak for Charlotte but Atlanta is in a big, peach-shaped toilet right now. Its really disappointing what they've let themselves come to. 

In the mid 90's when we lived there, it was pretty much sky's-the-limit after the Olympics. Specifically, it was the promised land if you were an upwardly mobile African American. That's why a lot of my extended family relocated their from TN and MS. Now they are all trying to get out, with most aiming for TX, OK, or DC/VA. 

I can't put my finger on why they fell so hard. But I get the feeling city never recovered from the dot com implosion. The slow drip-drip of cutbacks from big employers like Delta, and poor investment from a rural-dominated state government all kind of combined in this massive crapstorm when the bottom fell from real estate. And speaking of, Atlanta is the only place where I've seen _zombie subdivisions_. Google it, its wild. 

They do have an amazing skyline, so at least they can lay their hat on that.

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## Just the facts

On good thing in Atlanta now is that the ever expanding sprawl has finally slowed down and they are getting some really nice in-fill around downtown - and now that their streetcar is in place things will pick up.  However, it is down right depressing to fly over miles and miles and miles and miles of suburban Atlanta on approach into Hartsfield.  It give you the perfect view of how much waste and inefficiency there is.

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## Mississippi Blues

I hated the suburbs of Atlanta, but I was in love around Buckhead, Midtown, & Downtown Atlanta. I think they have a total of 19 cranes up in & around the downtown area.

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## Spartan

I don't think Atlanta's economy is that bad??

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## Mississippi Blues

> I don't think Atlanta's economy is that bad??


I haven't looked for a job there so I have no clue. I'm just going off what the people in Atlanta say.

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## bchris02

Atlanta doesn't have the greatest job market right now but its better than Charlotte. Charlotte suffers from not having a very diverse economy and it just happened that the sector they were dependent on is the one that collapsed: banking. That's is definitely something other cities like OKC can learn from.

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## HangryHippo

> Atlanta doesn't have the greatest job market right now but its better than Charlotte. Charlotte suffers from not having a very diverse economy and it just happened that the sector they were dependent on is the one that collapsed: banking. That's is definitely something other cities like OKC can learn from.


Sadly, OKC got this lesson in the 80s...

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## Spartan

We got the lesson?

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## hoya

There's not really much you can do to diversify though.  Not unless you're a larger city.  Telling OKC to magically get more Fortune 1000 companies that aren't oil and gas related is like telling a kid who wants to be an NBA star to get taller.

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## Plutonic Panda

> There's not really much you can do to diversify though.  Not unless you're a larger city.  Telling OKC to magically get more Fortune 1000 companies that aren't oil and gas related is like telling a kid who wants to be an NBA star to get taller.


I agree and as a plus, I think OKC is really starting to diversify a lot1

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## HangryHippo

> We got the lesson?


The lesson was taught to us and I do think there are those that learned from it.  It's hard to just tell a city to diversify.  If only it were so easy...  We're improving in this regard though.

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## stratosphere

I lived in ATL back in the late 90's,  the economy was good then but the traffic was really really really really bad.  I don't ever want OKC to get like that.

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## Spartan

> There's not really much you can do to diversify though.  Not unless you're a larger city.  Telling OKC to magically get more Fortune 1000 companies that aren't oil and gas related is like telling a kid who wants to be an NBA star to get taller.


Fair enough, especially when we live in a state that refuses to invest in higher education. And it's not the state's fault, it's OKC's fault.. OKC elected Mike Reynolds who made the infamous "it's not our responsibility to educate people" comment.

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## coov23

> Fair enough, especially when we live in a state that refuses to invest in higher education. And it's not the state's fault, it's OKC's fault.. OKC elected Mike Reynolds who made the infamous "it's not our responsibility to educate people" comment.


Weird. CNN's Fereed Zakaria just did a GPS piece on how Oklahoma grew 3 times faster than San Franscico the last decade and part of it was the states new found investment in higher education. Now, I know your negative nancy around these parts, but you really need to get your facts straight. OU has moved up drastically, in the rankings of education, in the last 20 years. So much so that its considered one of the top 100 universities in the US and top 300 in the world.

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## Mississippi Blues

> ...Oklahoma...


Oklahoma City.

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## CaptDave

> I hated the suburbs of Atlanta, but I was in love around Buckhead, Midtown, & Downtown Atlanta. I think they have a total of 19 cranes up in & around the downtown area.


I love Midtown ATL. Wandered around there all the time when I was at Tech. There is an old, classic, urban fire station I would love to have bought and converted to a home. Alas, someone got it and it was a restaurant last time I was there.

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## stratosphere

> I love Midtown ATL. Wandered around there all the time when I was at Tech. There is an old, classic, urban fire station I would love to have bought and converted to a home. Alas, someone got it and it was a restaurant last time I was there.


Did you ever eat at Bones Steakhouse in Buckhead?

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## rlewis

> I love Midtown ATL. Wandered around there all the time when I was at Tech. There is an old, classic, urban fire station I would love to have bought and converted to a home. Alas, someone got it and it was a restaurant last time I was there.


Sorry to get off topic.  CaptDave--you went to Georgia Tech?  I went there 1989 to 1993.

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## Spartan

> Weird. CNN's Fereed Zakaria just did a GPS piece on how Oklahoma grew 3 times faster than San Franscico the last decade and part of it was the states new found investment in higher education. Now, I know your negative nancy around these parts, *but you really need to get your facts straight.* OU has moved up drastically, in the rankings of education, in the last 20 years. So much so that its considered one of the top 100 universities in the US and top 300 in the world.


Good thing I was already sitting down when I read that I need to *get my facts straight*. Though I am glad that Zakaria's fluff piece makes you feel warm and fuzzy on the inside, it's not reflective of reality. I guess he realized he would get in less trouble if he just plagiarizes Chamber of Commerce press releases from now on...

Having both flagship state universities hover around 100 in the rankings is not impressive. The only thing Oklahoma is leading on Higher Ed is budget cuts, which Higher Ed is now receiving _less than they were in 2007_ (budget frozen during recession years, and now the boom years result in... cuts. Only in Oklahoma). 

Cutting Higher Ed over 9% one year and 6% the next year when your state's economy is booming just because the neo-conservatives want more tax cuts is not "investing in Higher Ed" no matter how much you want to _square this circle_. And the prognosis is even bleaker because the conservative quack thinktanks and ranksters keep arguing against essentially any funding for Higher Ed, and we know which way the State Legislators will bend if given a choice between doing the right thing and getting a freaking-fantastic score on some obscure conservative ranking. David Boren himself, who's not exactly prone to exaggeration, considers our Higher Ed future dire if we don't start making it a priority someday.

As for the USNWR rankings, OU is not a Top 100 school (barely, but you made the claim). OU is in a 5-way tie for 101st place with Iowa State (curious how ISU slipped so much), UC-Riverside, Nebraska, and Tennessee. OSU is actually sliding downhill now coming in at 139th place in an 8-way tie with Cincinnati, NYU-Poly (?), Oregon State, NJ Inst. of Tech (?), K-State, George Mason, and Arizona State. Tulsa is also moving downhill, coming in at 83rd, in a 6-way tie with the U of Denver, Marquette, Indiana, Drexel, and Clark.

Being one of 50 states and one that is not too terribly small, it would be nice if Oklahoma could get 1 school within the Top 50 and then another in the Top 100 and another in the Top 150. Granted, in the rankings our state schools' policy of automatic admissions hurts us a lot because not too many states just straight-up post strict admission requirements (thus anyone who gets rejected should really be an idiot). Maybe making admission requirements "less obvious" so as to attract more inadequate applicants might help fudge the rankings a little, but not as long as OSU keeps lowering admission standards to fuel massive growth, which also bothers me to no end.

So I think you should get *your facts* straight, because nothing is more dangerous than someone who articulates complacency in the face of what is actually going way downhill. At a certain point you can't keep praying for rich benefactors to bail out OU and OSU - the secret to Texas' modern economic boom was investing oil profits into higher education. Now look at UT (not just Austin, but the entire system, almost all of its campuses being ranked ahead of our 2 _flagships_) and A&M. Those are unbeatable economic engines, and that's precisely what OKC is up against as we try and accomplish economic development.

_edit: fixed grammar, and want to apologize for anyone rubbed the wrong way by this rant, but it needed to be said as coov23 was brazen enough to throw "you need to get your facts straight" at me, when THIS is actually been a huge, cantankerous issue for Oklahoma for some years now and anyone who says otherwise has their head DEEP in the sand._

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## SOONER8693

> Good thing I was already sitting down when I read that I need to *get my facts straight*. Though I am glad that Zakaria's fluff piece makes you feel warm and fuzzy on the inside, it's not reflective of reality. I guess he realized he would get in less trouble if he just plagiarizes Chamber of Commerce press releases from now on...
> 
> Having both flagship state universities hover around 100 in the rankings is not impressive. The only thing Oklahoma is leading in Higher Ed is budget cuts, which Higher Ed is now receiving less than they were in 2007 (budget frozen during recession years, and now the boom years result in... cuts. Only in Oklahoma). 
> 
> Cutting Higher Ed over 9% on year and 6% the next year when your state's economy is booming just because the neo-conservatives want more tax cuts is not "investing in Higher Ed" no matter how much you want to square this circle. And the prognosis is even bleaker because the conservative quack thinktanks and ranksters keep arguing against essentially any funding for Higher Ed, and we know which will the State Legislators will bend if given a choice between doing the right thing and getting a freaking-fantastic score on some obscure conservative ranking. David Boren considers our Higher Ed future dire if we don't start making it a priority someday.
> 
> As for the USNWR rankings, OU is not a Top 100 school (barely, but you made the claim). OU is in a 5-way tie for 101st place with Iowa State (curious how they've slipped so much), UC-Riverside, Nebraska, and Tennessee. OSU is actually sliding downhill now coming at 139th place in an 8-way tie with Cincinnati, NYU-Poly, Oregon State, NJ Tech, K-State, George Mason, and Arizona State. Tulsa is also moving downhill, coming in at 83rd, in a 6-way tie with the U of Denver, Marquette, Indiana, Drexel, and Clark.
> 
> Being one of 50 states and one that is not too terribly small, it would be nice if Oklahoma could get 1 school within the Top 50 and then another in the Top 100 and another in the Top 150. Granted, in the rankings our state schools' policy of automatic admissions hurts us a lot because not too many states just straight-up post strict admission requirements (thus anyone who gets rejected should really be an idiot). Maybe making admission requirements "less obvious" so as to attract more inadequate applicants might help fudge the rankings a little, but not as long as OSU keeps lowering admission standards to fuel massive growth, which also bothers me to no end.
> ...


Does it ever get lonely up there ole Holy One?

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## Rover

Yes, if someone approves of of anything that is happening in OK or points our any good aspect they must be stupid or have an agenda.

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## Spartan

Sorry, a fluff piece by Fareed Zakaria without any facts doesn't just override what's actually becoming a huge issue that a lot of people are becoming concerned with. Obviously David Boren is a true statesmen and must have impressed Zakaria to the point of convincing him all is well here - but Boren himself is deeply concerned.

This state _used_ to fund higher ed.

Coov23 took this off-topic with his "you need to get your facts straight" accusation out of nowhere. If you wanna talk facts, I'm definitely happy to talk facts.

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## soonerguru

> Not to rain on the parade, but if this is premised based on 2030, Charlotte will probably add as many skyscrapers as we will by then.
> 
> Charlotte will probably be exactly what Atlanta is now. As for Atlanta... my little brain does not possess the visionary capacity to foresee what will be made of the ATL.


Atlanta is a sprawling mess. Nice trees and it looks great from a distance, but not my idea of an urban ideal. Can't say anything about Charlotte, because I haven't been there, but it is a very attractive skyline. Not sure if it's a very walkable city, though.

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## coov23

> Sorry, a fluff piece by Fareed Zakaria without any facts doesn't just override what's actually becoming a huge issue that a lot of people are becoming concerned with. Obviously David Boren is a true statesmen and must have impressed Zakaria to the point of convincing him all is well here - but Boren himself is deeply concerned.
> 
> This state _used_ to fund higher ed.
> Coov23 took this off-topic with his "you need to get your facts straight" accusation out of nowhere. If you wanna talk facts, I'm definitely happy to talk facts.


This dude must be the most pretentious and stuck up person on this board. What's it like when your crap smells like roses, Spartan? I've read this board for 6 years. I hardly post( though I did start the mystery tower thread) and anytime you post it's like I'm reading some pretentious elitous view on everything. The way you speak on here, you must have a bachelors degree from Harvard, masters from Yale and PhD from U Penn. 

I see, from the responses of others on here, I'm not the only one that sees this. You give some insight, at times, but if a person disagrees with your views you come at them with a holier than thou post. I know this isn't the first time someone has called you out in your Internet tough guy bit--and it won't be the last as we see nothing changes-- but you need to tone it down. You can blast my school all you want. I'm proud of my OU education. I'm proud of the progress it's shown in the last decade. You may not be, and that's okay. We all can't be as educated, as smart or as good at life as you, Spartan. 


If only we could. This city and state would be perfect.

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## soonerguru

> Sadly, OKC got this lesson in the 80s...


What lesson? We have doubled down on oil and gas companies.

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## soonerguru

It's true that OU has improved and moved up in the rankings, but what Spartan says is also true: Our idiotic legislature is not pushing higher ed funding. We need an educated populace to diversify and grow economically.

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## Just the facts

It has been my experience that the university someone went to matters about as much as their hat size.  The dumbest person I ever worked with had an MBA from Harvard.  He could read a financial statement but had zero common sense.

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## Rover

Maybe you just weren't smart enough to understand him.   :Tongue:

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## Rover

> It has been my experience that the university someone went to matters about as much as their hat size.  The dumbest person I ever worked with had an MBA from Harvard.  He could read a financial statement but had zero common sense.


This is the kind of thinking that leads our legislators and ones all across the country to abandon the commitment to higher education funding... what the heck, it doesn't matter anyway.  Who needs quality education...it's all the same anyway, right?

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## hoya

The dumbest person I ever worked with had a conversation with my voicemail for 5 minutes before he remembered I wasn't there.  He did not have an MBA from Harvard.

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## HangryHippo

> What lesson? We have doubled down on oil and gas companies.


You pointing out what we've done means you got the lesson. We just haven't been able to apply it as well as needed. Though its been said several times now that diversifying is much easier talked about than done.

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## Just the facts

> The dumbest person I ever worked with had a conversation with my voicemail for 5 minutes before he remembered I wasn't there.  He did not have an MBA from Harvard.


How do you know he didn't?  :Smile: 

Maybe everyone should read this:
Higher education spending continues to skyrocket  Opinion  The Edmond Sun

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## Spartan

> This dude must be the most pretentious and stuck up person on this board. What's it like when your crap smells like roses, Spartan? I've read this board for 6 years. I hardly post( though I did start the mystery tower thread) and anytime you post it's like I'm reading some pretentious elitous view on everything. The way you speak on here, you must have a bachelors degree from Harvard, masters from Yale and PhD from U Penn. 
> 
> I see, from the responses of others on here, I'm not the only one that sees this. You give some insight, at times, but if a person disagrees with your views you come at them with a holier than thou post. I know this isn't the first time someone has called you out in your Internet tough guy bit--and it won't be the last as we see nothing changes-- but you need to tone it down. You can blast my school all you want. I'm proud of my OU education. I'm proud of the progress it's shown in the last decade. You may not be, and that's okay. We all can't be as educated, as smart or as good at life as you, Spartan. 
> 
> 
> If only we could. This city and state would be perfect.


Sigh... Stop making this about me, that's what people do when they have nothing factual left to say. It's cheap.

I too am proud of my edumacation from Ye Ole State University of Oklahoma, but I also have a bone to pick with my alma mater, and I put in the time at both of our state's flagships to have the right to make that point.

To say I'm sourpants toward OU/OSU is ignoring the important point I have to make that I think you should consider, if you would just stop the unwarranted personal crap. I could care less who you are, and that's not Internet tough guy, I just don't get personal unless I actually respect someone. Don't take lack of respect for disrespect.

In making a point I always just keep it factual, and that's more than can be said for anyone who dislikes me. People should learn how to debate and make cogent points for a change and stop getting their panties in a wad when they don't know how to respond... certainly doesn't bode well for functioning highly in society. _(note: I have no idea how well you function in society, nor care, just speaking generally)_

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## TheSocialGadfly

> This dude must be the most pretentious and stuck up person on this board. What's it like when your crap smells like roses, Spartan? I've read this board for 6 years. I hardly post( though I did start the mystery tower thread) and anytime you post it's like I'm reading some pretentious elitous view on everything. The way you speak on here, you must have a bachelors degree from Harvard, masters from Yale and PhD from U Penn. 
> 
> I see, from the responses of others on here, I'm not the only one that sees this. You give some insight, at times, but if a person disagrees with your views you come at them with a holier than thou post. I know this isn't the first time someone has called you out in your Internet tough guy bit--and it won't be the last as we see nothing changes-- but you need to tone it down. You can blast my school all you want. I'm proud of my OU education. I'm proud of the progress it's shown in the last decade. You may not be, and that's okay. We all can't be as educated, as smart or as good at life as you, Spartan. 
> 
> 
> If only we could. This city and state would be perfect.


None of this addresses any aspect of what Spartan wrote.  You completely sidestepped his rebuttal and instead attempted to redirect attention away from the issue and towards him.  Either concede his points or rebut them.  There's no need to respond with personal attacks.

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## bchris02

> Atlanta is a sprawling mess. Nice trees and it looks great from a distance, but not my idea of an urban ideal. Can't say anything about Charlotte, because I haven't been there, but it is a very attractive skyline. Not sure if it's a very walkable city, though.


Charlotte and OKC are about on the same level when it comes to walkability.  Its easier to live without a car in Charlotte due to a much better bus system and a light rail line, but still a pain.

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