# OKCpedia > General Real Estate Topics >  Downtown Living

## AP

This may not be the right place for this question, but oh well. I was wondering how many people on this forum live downtown. I see a bunch of regulars post on here a lot about their ideas on projects and things of that nature, but wasn't really sure how many live downtown. I am moving downtown in August and would like to meet as many 'neighbors' as possible. So, if you wouldn't mind, post where you live, what you like/dislike about living there, and maybe some advice for a new downtowner.

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## dankrutka

Do you know where you're moving? I don't live in Oklahoma right now, but I lived at the Claremont at 12th & Walker a couple years ago and absolutely loved it.

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## betts

I live downtown in the Brownstones.  I like all the activity in Deep Deuce - there are always people out and about - walking dogs, running, strolling through the neighborhood.  I like being within walking distance of coffee shops, restaurants and activities.  I wish we had an outdoor pool in our neighborhood and there were sidewalks on EK Gaylord.

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## AP

> Do you know where you're moving? I don't live in Oklahoma right now, but I lived at the Claremont at 12th & Walker a couple years ago and absolutely loved it.


Yep, I'm moving into the 430 Lofts in Midtown!

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## Pete

You should join Urban Neighbors.

They have socials and other activities:

https://www.facebook.com/UrbanNeighbors

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## AP

> You should join Urban Neighbors.
> 
> They have socials and other activities:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/UrbanNeighbors


I think I'm going to!

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## Zuplar

Part of me wishes I had moved downtown and done that whole scene for a few years. I guess it's a little late now, but it's nice to see the development down there.

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## CurtisJ

I used to live in Midtown at the Cline and you really cant go wrong with the Midtown Renaissance group, they were a pain to get a hold of when I first wanted to move to the area, but once I moved in they are great landlords.  

Now I check in on this board from Houston from time to time.  Some of my favorite places in the area that I miss are Coffee Slingers, McNellies and S&B.  I can't wait for Fassler Hall when/if it comes to midtown, I will be finding some excuse for a "business trip" back to OKC the moment that happens.

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## SouthOKC

I recently moved downtown in January of this year. Being born and raised in Southeast Oklahoma City and moving out of my parents home to Southwest Oklahoma City in 2004. 
My wife and I moved into the Guardian and love it. It brings great pride to see the Renaissance of my hometown. Areas and now districts that you didnt want to be in as a kid are now renewed and inviting. Walkability is something we have never experienced as a city. The Maps 3 projects will only add to the cohesiveness of downtown and increase walkability.
We travel for business to cities like NYC, Austin, San Francisco, and London. Every large city has its own unique personality. For a long time Oklahoma City had none it was not a destination. Now when we bring potential clients to Oklahoma City were able to show off the bustling new areas of downtown.
MidtownR is a great asset to the city and the management is first class. Downtown is unlike any experience available now in the metro area. To anyone considering moving downtown I highly encourage you to give it a shot. 
The one drawback to downtown currently is retail. I enjoy the locally owned boutique shops downtown now but its not enough. I feel like as the population increases, retail is surely on the way. The streetcar should add to the ability to live in one area and shop in others.

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## PWitty

I've seen a lot of people mention the waiting lists for getting into properties in Deep Deuce and the Midtown area. How long in advance should someone get their name on those lists in hopes of snagging a spot in one of the properties? I just graduated from KU and will be in the northeast doing some field work for the next 12 months before moving back to OKC next year. I've been watching the progress in those areas for awhile and those are definitely the two areas I would like to get into upon moving to OKC. Would I be better off getting my name in super early or will I be dropped off the list if my turn comes and I'm not ready to move back yet?

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## G.Walker

Midtown > Deep Deuce

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## Questor

I like Midtown the best. It has the most organic, natural feel of the urban places downtown. But there are not a lot of living options in that area. Deep Deuce seems to have many more renting and buying possibilities.

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## Chadanth

> I've seen a lot of people mention the waiting lists for getting into properties in Deep Deuce and the Midtown area. How long in advance should someone get their name on those lists in hopes of snagging a spot in one of the properties? I just graduated from KU and will be in the northeast doing some field work for the next 12 months before moving back to OKC next year. I've been watching the progress in those areas for awhile and those are definitely the two areas I would like to get into upon moving to OKC. Would I be better off getting my name in super early or will I be dropped off the list if my turn comes and I'm not ready to move back yet?


It seems to be hit or miss, I had my name on a "list" at Leel, never heard anything, and finally stopped in. Thankfully, I was busy and just decided to stick it out where I am now for a few more months. Now I'm back on the "list" at Level, and have reached out to the Maywood people, and keeping an eye on it. Midtown has limited options, but it's pretty cool too.

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## HOT ROD

if I lived back in OKC I would ONLY live in downtown or very close in. I suspect most expats and new arrivals also might want the urban experience. ...

I am so proud of my hometown and I look forward to further in-fill projects and the continued repopulation of central Oklahoma City. Nothing against the suburbs and I know folks like that too; but I believe a city/metro is defined by how well its core is built up/bustling and OKC should continue to push for urban projects in the urban core (inner ring) with particularly dense infill in the downtown districts and within 1 mile of the CBD. 

Don't forget to put retail storefronts on the first floor of every new development possible (even if it doesn't fill right away, the building will have interaction with the ground if it has retail fronts). Just imagine in 5 years if in that time OKC doubles what has already been accomplished (and hopefully, raises the bar in the process with the new construction). ...

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## soonerguru

> I recently moved downtown in January of this year. Being born and raised in Southeast Oklahoma City and moving out of my parents home to Southwest Oklahoma City in 2004. 
> My wife and I moved into the Guardian and love it. It brings great pride to see the Renaissance of my hometown. Areas and now districts that you didn’t want to be in as a kid are now renewed and inviting. Walkability is something we have never experienced as a city. The Maps 3 projects will only add to the cohesiveness of downtown and increase walkability.
> We travel for business to cities like NYC, Austin, San Francisco, and London. Every large city has it’s own unique personality. For a long time Oklahoma City had none it was not a destination. Now when we bring potential clients to Oklahoma City we’re able to show off the bustling new areas of downtown.
> MidtownR is a great asset to the city and the management is first class. Downtown is unlike any experience available now in the metro area. To anyone considering moving downtown I highly encourage you to give it a shot. 
> The one drawback to downtown currently is retail. I enjoy the locally owned boutique shops downtown now but it’s not enough. I feel like as the population increases, retail is surely on the way. The streetcar should add to the ability to live in one area and shop in others.


Excellent post. As to your comment about retail, OKC doesn't seem to know how to do it right. Not sure why (and please, no one bring up the rooftops argument). It's as if there is no real planning going on to lure the retailers downtown. Perhaps there is and it's just a massive failure. Obviously, our track record isn't great considering we thought a Bass Pro would lead to a Nordstrom's.

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## HangryHippo

> Excellent post. As to your comment about retail, OKC doesn't seem to know how to do it right. Not sure why (and please, no one bring up the rooftops argument). It's as if there is no real planning going on to lure the retailers downtown. Perhaps there is and it's just a massive failure. Obviously, our track record isn't great considering we thought a Bass Pro would lead to a Nordstrom's.


Good point.  Does anyone know why Alison Oshel (spelling?) left the retail coordinator position?

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## Urbanized

> Excellent post. As to your comment about retail, OKC doesn't seem to know how to do it right. Not sure why (and please, no one bring up the rooftops argument). It's as if there is no real planning going on to lure the retailers downtown. Perhaps there is and it's just a massive failure. Obviously, our track record isn't great considering we thought a Bass Pro would lead to a Nordstrom's.


Rooftops.

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## Pete

Yep.

As a former commercial real estate broker who focused on retail properties and tenants, I can assure you that retail follows people and we just aren't quite there yet.

Native Roots took a huge risk moving in when they did and I'm just hoping they can hang on until there is more density.

It's a bit chicken/egg because people want retail and services before the move into an area, but I think we are getting close to a tipping point where there is enough to keep people happy while we wait for critical mass.  After that, we will really get on a roll.

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## soonerguru

> Yep.
> 
> As a former commercial real estate broker who focused on retail properties and tenants, I can assure you that retail follows people and we just aren't quite there yet.
> 
> Native Roots took a huge risk moving in when they did and I'm just hoping they can hang on until there is more density.
> 
> It's a bit chicken/egg because people want retail and services before the move into an area, but I think we are getting close to a tipping point where there is enough to keep people happy while we wait for critical mass.  After that, we will really get on a roll.


We all get this. But what is the plan? Obviously, the city is executing on getting more residents and tourists into the downtown core (and Midtown). But it would seem there there should be at least a five-year strategy for creating a first-class retail presence in the downtown core. That takes a serious, strategic effort with lots of moving parts. 

We still have some large swaths of Urban Renewal owned land between Midtown and Downtown. If we were to plan for a major retail development, those parcels would make the most sense to me. 

Conversely, if we auction these off willy-nilly we lose this swath of land to recruit a major retail development to. 

It is a great thing that we're seeing this infill, but is there any kind of site plan from the planning department that exists to attract a major grocer and / or retail development? 

Once this available land goes we're going to run out of space for anything substantial in the downtown area. 

To say "rooftops" is to sidestep my real question: what is the plan?

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## BoulderSooner

> The Alliance just released their Midtown plan.  I think it answers some of your questions.


except that "plan" is really just a legal framework that lets them acquire property (via ED) in the future in the city chooses to do so .. it is not binding on anyone

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## kevinpate

I thought the plan was more rooftops.


<ducks>

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## Just the facts

> Midtown > Deep Deuce





> Deep Deuce > Midtown


This argument hasn't happened in 60 years.  I love it.

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## Teo9969

Deep Deuce > Midtown

...but those days are numbered.

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## BoulderSooner

> Deep Deuce > Midtown
> 
> ...but those days are numbered.


days are already over ... 

places to currently eat in deep deuce ...  3? 

midtown .. 20?

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## Teo9969

> I don't know about that... Deep Deuce has Bricktown so I feel that as Deep Deuce fills in, Bricktown will continue to improve.  It will always be really nice to live one block away from Bricktown amenities.


Midtown has St. Anthony's: Quicker access to a stomach pump after a bad night of drinking > Access to baseball and a Movie Theater

 :Wink:

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## Just the facts

I think what Sid is saying is that Deep Deuce's proximity to Bricktown (plus its own urban feel) trumps Midtown.

It's not what you have, it is what you have access to.

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## Teo9969

> we have a(nother) overpriced movie theater in bricktown!


fify

 :Wink:

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## Teo9969

> Yeah, land mass will have us beat but again, density of amenities in Bricktown will make Deep Deuce an increasingly practical choice for some.
> 
> Perhaps it would be better to say that Deep Deuce + Bricktown > Midtown


Even that, I don't see lasting long term. 15 years tops.

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## Pete

Deep Deuce also has Native Roots, which for the time being is one of the most important amenities in all of downtown living.

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## BoulderSooner

> Yeah, land mass will have us beat but again, density of amenities in Bricktown will make Deep Deuce an increasingly practical choice for some.
> 
> Perhaps it would be better to say that Deep Deuce + Bricktown > Midtown


no doubt deep deuce is a great place to live  (and still getting better all the time)  .. and bricktown is a great asset to have next door

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## AP

I really enjoy this Midtown - Deep Deuce rivalry we have going on here.

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## betts

We're being silly here.  You can walk from Deep Deuce to Midtown in 10-15 minutes, and its an enjoyable walk that even has window shopping these days. Automobile Alley connects the two. There will soon be a streetcar that allows access between them as well.  I would pick housing that appeals to me and not worry which area I live in.

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## Questor

> Obviously, our track record isn't great considering we thought a Bass Pro would lead to a Nordstrom's.


Got to admit, this made me laugh out loud.

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## Questor

> We're being silly here.  You can walk from Deep Deuce to Midtown in 10-15 minutes, and its an enjoyable walk that even has window shopping these days. Automobile Alley connects the two. There will soon be a streetcar that allows access between them as well.  I would pick housing that appeals to me and not worry which area I live in.


I think the streetcar between the sites is going to have massive impacts in ways we can't even imagine right now. 

I thought I read last week that some politicians are fighting that route though. For the life of me I can't imagine why. I don't see how its not a no brainer.

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## Prunepicker

> It's a bit chicken/egg because people want retail and services before they 
> move into an area, but I think we are getting close to a tipping point where 
> there is enough to keep people happy while we wait for critical mass.  After 
> that, we will really get on a roll.


I remember when the need for retail came AFTER the homes were built.  
Why build a business if nobody lives there?

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## benjenn

We are moving downtown this weekend to Block 42, just north of Bricktown at 4th & Walnut.  I've been keeping a blog about our downsizing experiences... Downtown Downsizing.  We're really excited to have access to Bricktown and Midtown... ALL of it!   :Smile:

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## Chadanth

> We are moving downtown this weekend to Block 42, just north of Bricktown at 4th & Walnut.  I've been keeping a blog about our downsizing experiences... Downtown Downsizing.  We're really excited to have access to Bricktown and Midtown... ALL of it!


Congrats. My wife and I moved to level a couple months ago, and couldn't be more pleased. There are great amenities, and suburbia is just a short drive away if you need a Target. Enjoy!

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## betts

> We are moving downtown this weekend to Block 42, just north of Bricktown at 4th & Walnut.  I've been keeping a blog about our downsizing experiences... Downtown Downsizing.  We're really excited to have access to Bricktown and Midtown... ALL of it!


You're going to love it!  Welcome to the neighborhood. Sounds like you've already met some of my favorite people. Talk to them about New Years Eve if you don't have plans.

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## benjenn

Whew... I forgot what a pain it is to move.   :Smile:   We've got everything out of the house except for the bikes.  Art should go on the walls this evening and we can get settled in.  Everyone we've met downtown is so nice!  I think we're going to love it.   :Smile:

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## OKCretro

bricktown is over.

 The bars are old and stale.  Last good bar in bricktown was Lit.  I think its mostly now random batcherlorette parties from a group of girls from Prague or Cushing or Gotebo.  

There is a reason why its called "Del-City Walk", and trust me that's not a compliment.

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## Teo9969

> bricktown is over.
> 
>  The bars are old and stale.  Last good bar in bricktown was Lit.  I think its mostly now random batcherlorette parties from a group of girls from Prague or Cushing or Gotebo.  
> 
> There is a reason why its called "Del-City Walk", and trust me that's not a compliment.


No.

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## Plutonic Panda

> bricktown is over.
> 
>  The bars are old and stale.  Last good bar in bricktown was Lit.  I think its mostly now random batcherlorette parties from a group of girls from Prague or Cushing or Gotebo.  
> 
> There is a reason why its called "Del-City Walk", and trust me that's not a compliment.


naaaa

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## shawnw

Cue the detailed, contrary, and factually backed-up response from Urbanized...


:-)

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## OKCisOK4me

> bricktown is over.
> 
>  The bars are old and stale.  Last good bar in bricktown was Lit.  I think its mostly now random batcherlorette parties from a group of girls from Prague or Cushing or Gotebo.  
> 
> There is a reason why its called "Del-City Walk", and trust me that's not a compliment.


Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....Bricktown was over 13 years ago when after turning 21, you got tired of going to the same clubs for two years in a row.  Now, it's a vibrant urban district that thrives off of what has taken shape downtown which is a major transformation.  I'd go to Bricktown more often than not if I lived closer.  It's a lot better now than it was when I was 21 which was in 1999!

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## OKCretro

yea the spaghetti warehouse is a 5 star restaurant that has a waiting list every night......

cant wait to go around in the sewage water tour..errr I mean the bricktown canal.

If that's your idea of a good vibrant urban district......

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## OKCisOK4me

> yea the spaghetti warehouse is a 5 star restaurant that has a waiting list every night......
> 
> cant wait to go around in the sewage water tour..errr I mean the bricktown canal.
> 
> If that's your idea of a good vibrant urban district......


Hey man to each his own.  Like I said I don't go down there due to distances but don't kill this messenger since I'm like the fifth person in a row to vote against you, lol.   You can go to Henry Hudson's across from Tinker AFB for all I care ;-)

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## PWitty

> yea the spaghetti warehouse is a 5 star restaurant that has a waiting list every night......
> 
> cant wait to go around in the sewage water tour..errr I mean the bricktown canal.
> 
> If that's your idea of a good vibrant urban district......


Yeah that Spaghetti Warehouse... that one restaraunt really kiils an entire district  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## OKCretro

> Yeah that Spaghetti Warehouse... that one restaraunt really kiils an entire district


guess you would prefer appetizers from one of the 7 clubs in 1 at del city walk?

to each his own

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## no1cub17

> guess you would prefer appetizers from one of the 7 clubs in 1 at del city walk?
> 
> to each his own


Have you even been to any of the new places? Slim's? WSKY? KD's even? No offense but sounds like you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

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## OKCretro

> Have you even been to any of the new places? Slim's? WSKY? KD's even? No offense but sounds like you don't know what the hell you're talking about.


Yes I have? slims is great, a little too small of a place. I was there enjoying a soccer game and a group of 10-15 middle aged women came in started making fun of everyone.  (hence my line about batchelorette parties from small towns).
KD's - haven't been probably wont go.  I think we should call it something else because KD doesn't own it, he just receives royalties from it.  If its own by Hal smith just call it something generic like Hal smith's 2013 bricktown attempt.
I did love Al Esbach's restaurant, no reason why that place closed down....

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## BDP

> Have you even been to any of the new places? Slim's? WSKY? KD's even? No offense but sounds like you don't know what the hell you're talking about.


Yeah. It's gotten way better in the last year. Much more variety. JJ's and Slim's offer nice neighborhood vibe places and the revamped Bricktown Music Hall is putting on some good shows now. ACM regularly pumps some live music into the district. BT has long been known for its cheesy mega clubs, but it seems the newer establishments have been going against that. There's still plenty of it, but the influx of more low key establishments has given it broader appeal, imo.

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## OKCisOK4me

> Yes I have? slims is great, a little too small of a place. I was there enjoying a soccer game and a group of 10-15 middle aged women came in started making fun of everyone.  (hence my line about batchelorette parties from small towns).
> KD's - haven't been probably wont go.  I think we should call it something else because KD doesn't own it, he just receives royalties from it.  *If its own by Hal smith just call it something generic like Hal smith's 2013 bricktown attempt.*
> I did love Al Esbach's restaurant, no reason why that place closed down....


You must call Wes Welker's place "Hal Smith's 2013 Attempt at Running Another Sports Stars Bar Up On Memorial", huh?

Obviously you have nothing but snide and negative remarks.  Tell us where the premier urban district is that ultimately gives you goosebumps because it's so amazing...

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## BDP

Speaking of Lit, whats the story on the Pink Cadillac joint? Did they redo the place or is it still like Lit?

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## Pete

^
Pink Cadillac is owned by the same people as Candy, so that's a good sign I think.

They already have over 8,000 likes on their Facebook page.

Here is the only photo I could find of the interior -- it's going to be much more of a sports bar than a club:

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## OkieNate

> Yes I have? slims is great, a little too small of a place. I was there enjoying a soccer game and a group of 10-15 middle aged women came in started making fun of everyone.  (hence my line about batchelorette parties from small towns).
> KD's - haven't been probably wont go.  I think we should call it something else because KD doesn't own it, he just receives royalties from it.  If its own by Hal smith just call it something generic like Hal smith's 2013 bricktown attempt.
> I did love Al Esbach's restaurant, no reason why that place closed down....


KD owns 25% of the restaurant. Anyone to feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.

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## OKCisOK4me

> ^
> Pink Cadillac is owned by the same people as Candy, so that's a good sign I think.
> 
> They already have over 8,000 likes on their Facebook page.
> 
> Here is the only photo I could find of the interior -- it's going to be much more of a sports bar than a club:


Looks like the sidewalks of downtown OKC!

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## Prunepicker

> Looks like the sidewalks of downtown OKC!


And it looks like you've changed your Avatar for the 29th time this month!
Yes, I'm a conspiracy theorist between the hours of 1am and 3am.
You're planning something devious.

Calling NSA...  CPA... SAE... DFW... WD39...  Chief, It's me, would you believe...

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## Plutonic Panda

Yeah OKCisOK4me, quit changing your avatar pic so much. . . What are you planning

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## OKCisOK4me

> And it looks like you've changed your Avatar for the 29th time this month!
> Yes, I'm a conspiracy theorist between the hours of 1am and 3am.
> You're planning something devious.
> 
> Calling NSA...  CPA... SAE... DFW... WD39...  Chief, It's me, would you believe...


Prune, I last changed it around Halloween in honor of Just The Fact's creepy avatar. Deal with it!

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## BDP

> Looks like the sidewalks of downtown OKC!


What?

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## OKCisOK4me

> What?


Empty.  Sorry, I think on a different plane of thought.

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## Urbanized

Post-zombie apocalypse. At least things are improving...dramatically.

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## benjenn

One week in... Downtown Downsizing: One week in...

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## BDP

> Empty.  Sorry, I think on a different plane of thought.


Are you talking about the CBD after dark or on a Sunday? If so, I can show you empty financial districts after 6pm in some of the biggest cities in the country. If you meant all of downtown, then maybe you meant 1985?

Or did I just misread some sarcasm?

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## warreng88

> Are you talking about the CBD after dark or on a Sunday? If so, I can show you empty financial districts after 6pm in some of the biggest cities in the country. If you meant all of downtown, then maybe you meant 1985?
> 
> Or did I just misread some sarcasm?


I believe it was sarcasm intended to poke fun at OKCretro's posts at the top of the page.

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## Chadanth

> Are you talking about the CBD after dark or on a Sunday? If so, I can show you empty financial districts after 6pm in some of the biggest cities in the country. If you meant all of downtown, then maybe you meant 1985?
> 
> Or did I just misread some sarcasm?


Wall Street is relatively dead on the weekends.

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## BDP

> I believe it was sarcasm intended to poke fun at OKCretro's posts at the top of the page.


Yeah, makes sense. I went back and read who said and what and that would be more consistent.

So, in that case,

Ha!

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## benjenn

I think it finally hit me... Downtown Downsizing: I think it finally hit me...

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## Dubya61

> I think it finally hit me... Downtown Downsizing: I think it finally hit me...


That's a fantastic blog and I've really enjoyed reading it.

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## benjenn

Thanks, Dubya61!  You just made my day.   :Smile:   I am looking forward to writing about all the fun things we're going to get to do living downtown.  Just got our MOA membership cards in the mail today.  Ready for spring so we can start walking around to check things out.

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## Pete

^

Very cool!

Fun reading your blog and look forward to hearing more about your adventures.   :Smile:

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## wsucougz

I only see one Brownstone for sale on MLS right now, which looks like a resale.  Just a couple months ago there were probably 6 or 7 on the market, most of which were still in shell form.

Betts - did they sell out?

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## betts

Six have definitely sold in the past six months.  I heard there was potentially another one that might have a contract pending.  There could be others as well.  There are no unfinished shells left, for sure.

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## Garin

Those brownstones are the poorest built structures I've ever been around.

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## wsucougz

Why do you say that?  All but one of those structures are 8" insulated concrete, aside form the interior framing.

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## no1cub17

> Those brownstones are the poorest built structures I've ever been around.


Haha wow. This board just wouldn't be the same without you.

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## betts

I'm pretty happy.  I've lived in 6 different houses as an adult and this one has been the most trouble free with the lowest utilities. Not perfect, but certainly not bad.

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## OKCisOK4me

> Those brownstones are the poorest built structures I've ever been around.


My God, you must need a sugar momma for your high maintenance lifestyle...

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## Garin

> Why do you say that?  All but one of those structures are 8" insulated concrete, aside form the interior framing.


For starters they used the cheapest windows and doors they could purchase people are already having to rip them out and replace with something better. That just shouldn't happen on a structure this new. The interior framing is awful not really sure how they ever got inspections passed, the exteriors leak water through the brick and around all the cast stone,  i have worked inside and out of approx 10 of those units and all have experienced the same thing... That's not to say that once all the problems are corrected that the homes are not nice, but for all that was spent up front they are a real disappointment in quality.

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## Plutonic Panda

Do they custom build here?

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## Plutonic Panda

> My God, you must need a sugar momma for your high maintenance lifestyle...


It'd have to be a nun or someone religious because.....yeah I won't go there  :Wink:

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## betts

I don't know why people are removing the windows and doors. Two people have. Mine are fine.  Trust me, I've seen cheap windows and doors and these are fine.  They're metal clad wood, double pane.  I'm sitting here perfectly comfortable without my furnace running.  The people who removed theirs bought their homes after they'd stood empty for years.  Maybe the exposure to extremes of temperature caused problems.  I've lived here 5 years and bought when the windows were new.  Dunno. 

And the walls are 8" concrete and rebar surrounded by 3" styrofoam.  They can't leak.  If there is water leaking around doors and windows perhaps it's due to caulking being exposed to extremes of temperature.  Mine don't leak.

I bought mine unfinished and the interior framing was fine.  But I can't speak for any of the others.  Again, they're not perfect.  But I've had 2 prior custom built homes by good builders and they weren't perfect either.  Matt Wilson was amazing at correcting problems that showed up later, and my biggest complaint is that these builders felt when you closed, their responsibility was over.  My first builder pretty much did the same.  We are totally impressed with build-block though.  I wouldn't consider building a house with any other product.

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## benjenn

What a fun downtown weekend! Downtown Downsizing: What a fun downtown weekend!

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## zookeeper

I am embarrassed to ask this, but just don't know. I was talking about downtown OKC to someone who knows I love this site. They asked a simple question and I have no idea. What do the condos start at downtown/Bricktown/Deep Deuce? What are typical rental rates like downtown? Are there such things as "starters" in Midtown maybe?

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## OKCisOK4me

I think bottom level is about $850 unless its like this place I was looking at just south of where Edge is being built, an efficiency basement unit was (at the time Fall of 2012) $425.

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## Chadanth

> I am embarrassed to ask this, but just don't know. I was talking about downtown OKC to someone who knows I love this site. They asked a simple question and I have no idea. What do the condos start at downtown/Bricktown/Deep Deuce? What are typical rental rates like downtown? Are there such things as "starters" in Midtown maybe?


Midtown has a wider range of prices, there might still be 1br units at Deep Deuce Apartments or the occasional studi loft in deep deuce for under 1k/month. You can get into midtown for under 500/month up to a couple thousand a month for the nicer units at the Seiber and Midtown Reniassance properties.

----------


## AP

> I am embarrassed to ask this, but just don't know. I was talking about downtown OKC to someone who knows I love this site. They asked a simple question and I have no idea. What do the condos start at downtown/Bricktown/Deep Deuce? What are typical rental rates like downtown? Are there such things as "starters" in Midtown maybe?


I know for sure MidtownR had a studio at 650 or so. Other than that, everything I've seen was 800+. My unit at Four30 was 850.

----------


## CarlessInOKC

I live in the Regency and prices for a one-bedroom apartment start around $880 (Depending on the length of your lease).

----------


## OKCisOK4me

> I know for sure MidtownR had a studio at 650 or so. Other than that, everything I've seen was 800+. *My unit at Four30 was 850*.


I certainly expected it to be more for such new digs.  Maybe that's why I pulled $850 out of thin air because my subconscious remembered you said that way back when.

----------


## soonerguru

> Those brownstones are the poorest built structures I've ever been around.


Then you haven't been in them.

----------


## shawnw

And, to get an idea of range, you can get 3BRs at the Regency for $1400-1600.

----------


## GoThunder

We got into a one bedroom on the third floor at Level for $955. Not bad for a great location and great view of downtown.

----------


## Soho

Garin,

You are way off base here. ANY structure left vacant and unmaintained for several years will experience a degradation of quality. The financial downturn of 08-09, stalled the momentum of development and fractured the original development group. Some of which are still struggling financially, and therefore have not maintained their properties. Fortunately, the area has rebounded, and all of the Brownstones are now finished out, or are being finished now. 

We have lived in our Brownstone for five years and have not experienced ANY of the problems you claim, except minor water damage from this spring's severe storms. The windows of the unfinished units did suffer some pretty obvious damage caused by neglect. The windows are of the same, or better quality as any I have owned in the past and have proved to be maintenance free. Every door in my house is solid core, as opposed to hollow core, as our last house in Oaktree were.

What is your motive for disparaging what you clearly have limited knowledge of? I question that you have really "worked on" 55% of the Brownstones -- what line of work are you in?






> For starters they used the cheapest windows and doors they could purchase people are already having to rip them out and replace with something better. That just shouldn't happen on a structure this new. The interior framing is awful not really sure how they ever got inspections passed, the exteriors leak water through the brick and around all the cast stone,  i have worked inside and out of approx 10 of those units and all have experienced the same thing... That's not to say that once all the problems are corrected that the homes are not nice, but for all that was spent up front they are a real disappointment in quality.

----------


## Anonymous.

> I am embarrassed to ask this, but just don't know. I was talking about downtown OKC to someone who knows I love this site. They asked a simple question and I have no idea. What do the condos start at downtown/Bricktown/Deep Deuce? What are typical rental rates like downtown? Are there such things as "starters" in Midtown maybe?


You have to go based on sq ft in most cases. Yea you can live downtown for $8-900 a month, but that is like 6-700 sqft in the DD area.

2 bed/2bath ~11-1200 sqft is going to run around $1600-2000 a month. Rental rates are super high right now, but remember you are paying for location until there are more options downtown.

----------


## shawnw

I have 3 BR, 3 Full Bath, I think 1235 sq/ft at the Regency for the range I noted above.

----------


## Anonymous.

Yea but living at the Regency is way different than living in DD, location-wise and most likely the fixtures are more up to date in DD area, as it is younger.

----------


## shawnw

Agreed, but I've had it the other way around, fixture wise, having lived at the Classen (renovated in 2006, and I was the first tenant in my unit with everything brand new) more than six years and I'm good at the Regency. I would have been fine at the DD apts as well but at the time I was moving I couldn't get anyone to call me back about their 3BR units, and I am used to/prefer the highrise lifestyle anyway...  

And I think the location aspect will change dramatically in the coming years as Midtown grows up.

----------


## Chadanth

> Agreed, but I've had it the other way around, fixture wise, having lived at the Classen (renovated in 2006, and I was the first tenant in my unit with everything brand new) more than six years and I'm good at the Regency. I would have been fine at the DD apts as well but at the time I was moving I couldn't get anyone to call me back about their 3BR units, and I am used to/prefer the highrise lifestyle anyway...  
> 
> And I think the location aspect will change dramatically in the coming years as Midtown grows up.


What were the rates at the Classen?

----------


## zookeeper

Thanks to all for the responses on the prices and rentals of downtown properties. I've learned a lot and will pass it along to who asked me. Again, having spent so much time on this forum, I was embarrassed to not know in the first place. As I was reading, I was amazed at all the options, things have changed in such a HUGE way. I read names of places I have never even heard before. Great things happening!

----------


## shawnw

When I left the Classen I was paying $1675 for the 8th floor and it's less going down/more going up. However, having lived there so long and having few rent escalations, I suspect others were paying much more than I was. I think I remember someone getting a quote for a smaller unit on my floor and it was more than what I was paying for the second largest non-penthouse floor plan. 

I loved the location though and wish I still had some of those amenities, though downtown will catch up I'm sure. The two main reasons I moved was because 1) My teenagers that had been sharing a room for years were about to kill each other and needed their own space and 2) I wanted to try downtown living. 

I'm actually glad I ended up at the Regency because there are 3 full baths so we each have our own space and bathrooms whereas at DD we would likely have had two baths so my disagreeable teens would have had to share one. Also, since the 3BR units are only on the 23rd/24th floors, we get a nicer view than we had before, or would have had at DD.

----------


## no1cub17

> Thanks to all for the responses on the prices and rentals of downtown properties. I've learned a lot and will pass it along to who asked me. Again, having spent so much time on this forum, I was embarrassed to not know in the first place. As I was reading, I was amazed at all the options, things have changed in such a HUGE way. I read names of places I have never even heard before. Great things happening!


It's pretty wild how high demand is for downtown housing. Units at Maywood Lofts aren't lasting long at all when they're up for resale.

----------


## BDP

> Those brownstones are the poorest built structures I've ever been around.


That'd be a shame, because they're probably the best built homes downtown. Are you talking about The Hill?

----------


## Pete

This is about a year old but is a great list of all the downtown properties and their corresponding lease rates:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/downtownliving.pdf

----------


## zookeeper

> This is about a year old but is a great list of all the downtown properties and their corresponding lease rates:
> 
> http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/downtownliving.pdf


Great resource. Did you do this yourself? A downtown group? Updated yearly, this would be awesome. Sometimes just a range is all some want, this is perfect.

----------


## Pete

^

It was done by Downtown OKC, Inc.

----------


## bchris02

I wasn't sure where to post this and thought this thread would probably be best.  Out of curiosity, when a new development opens downtown, such as the new Edge, how fast are the apartments leased up?  Is there a heavy demand for more downtown residential?  I know with booms like this, it slowly transitions from market-backed to speculative then to bust, I've seen it happen in other cities.  Where is OKC currently on that trajectory?

----------


## Just the facts

My understanding has been that they fill up fast and usually have a waiting list by the time the doors open.  One objection I might make though in your time line analysis - this is not a boom.  This is people returning to a 10,000 year old way of living.  The boom, over build, and bust of sprawl was the anomaly.

----------


## hoya

> I wasn't sure where to post this and thought this thread would probably be best.  Out of curiosity, when a new development opens downtown, such as the new Edge, how fast are the apartments leased up?  Is there a heavy demand for more downtown residential?  I know with booms like this, it slowly transitions from market-backed to speculative then to bust, I've seen it happen in other cities.  Where is OKC currently on that trajectory?


LEVEL has a 4 month wait.  A friend of mine asked them a few days ago.  I think other places are experiencing similar levels of interest.

----------


## OKVision4U

OKC is in the "very beginning" stage of the UP market for Real Estate.  We are not having our "traditional" growth from organic expansion.  We are experiencing ( a reverse Grapes of Wrath ) as the West Coast & East Coat are having their long-term issues.   ( not good for families).

Thus, here they come.  So our expansion cycle could last for decades.  This is why we need to be building in a massive way.

----------


## OKVision4U

So what is the rumor of a Major Retail announcement for Downtown?  ...and when?

----------


## benjenn

Downtown Downsizing: Another beautiful weekend downtown

----------


## benjenn

> You should consider using the blog functionality of OKCTalk rather than just posting your links on different threads.


Thanks, Sid, for telling me there was a blog functionality on here... I'm very new to this forum and haven't had a chance to play with it too much to learn what all it offers.  I just posted to my regular blog but also copied it to a blog on here.  If you do a search for "downsizing" it will turn up... I'm not sure how else to find it.  I'm not sure how many would be interested in it anyway... the idea of downsizing seems to terrify most people for some reason.  Very attached to all their stuff it seems.  We've loved it and we're loving living downtown, too.  It's been really interesting seeing what others are saying about living downtown.  Have you ever been involved in the Urban Neighbors group?

----------


## shawnw

When you read Sid's statement of "no furniture", you probably think no good furniture or not much furniture, but take it from someone that has been a houseguest of Sid's. No means none. Pretty sure it's not possible to be any more minimal than Sid while not also being homeless (and I've seen a few homeless guys pushing two shopping carts around -- i.e. probably have more stuff than Sid).

----------


## coov23

> Haha, thanks for the backup Shawn.  
> 
> We do love living with very little. Here's our house, shipped to us in Seattle from OKC by UPS:


Wait... You moved to Seattle? Not living in OKC anymore?

----------


## Urbanized

It looks rainy there.

----------


## wsucougz

> Yes. Tough decision, but we wanted Seattle to be "home base" for us.


That makes at least 3 active Seattleites on the board.

----------


## benjenn

Sorry we didn't get a chance to meet before you moved. best of luck to you!

----------


## Just the facts

Sid - you know you can lease furniture pretty cheaply.  When I lived in Norman I leased furniture from CORT.

CORT furniture rental for your whole home, room by room or by the piece | Rent furniture for students | CORT.com

----------


## hoya

> Haha, thanks for the backup Shawn.  
> 
> We do love living with very little. Here's our house, shipped to us in Seattle from OKC by UPS:


You guys must not be very tall to fit in there.

----------


## Just the facts

> You guys must not be very tall to fit in there.


It has to be at least 3X as big as this...

----------


## AP

Downtown OKC Inc. updated their website along with the downtown housing page.

For those that are interested -> Real estate | DowntownOKC

----------


## ljbab728

Move to downtown Oklahoma City is satisfying to new residents | News OK




> With a family business that was sending Jennifer and J.D. Upton pinballing around the metro area on a daily basis, the couple decided in 2011 that they needed to spend way less time in their cars and way more time enjoying the best Oklahoma City had to offer.
> Looking for a new home, a few items topped the Uptons’ priorities list: a central location, great views, reduced property maintenance and less square footage of living space to manage.
> 
> Moving from Mustang to Centennial Lofts at Bricktown, 200 S Oklahoma Ave., was, Jennifer Upton said, a move full of surprises — “all of them good.”
> 
> Three years into their new urban life, the Uptons don’t regret the move.





> Downtown construction accounts for more than 60 percent of apartment construction for the whole metro area, Dirkschneider reported.
> 
> That construction is the only thing that came to Jennifer Upton’s mind when pressed about the drawbacks of living downtown.
> 
> “But I just remember that’s the short-term cost of long-term improvements,” she said.
> 
> Ultimately, the growing pains she and other residents experience in plowed-up downtown streets are not enough to offset the positives of living there.
> 
> “I love the fact that my new backyard is The Myriad Gardens,” she said. “And that I don’t have to mow it.”

----------


## mister_s

> This may not be the right place for this question, but oh well. I was wondering how many people on this forum live downtown. I see a bunch of regulars post on here a lot about their ideas on projects and things of that nature, but wasn't really sure how many live downtown. I am moving downtown in August and would like to meet as many 'neighbors' as possible. So, if you wouldn't mind, post where you live, what you like/dislike about living there, and maybe some advice for a new downtowner.


I lived in the Lofts at Deep Deuce (above what is now WSKY Lounge) back around 2006-2008.  Absolutely loved it and it's been quite an experience seeing that area change so much.  I now live in Central Park (NW 36th and Walker) and love it, too, however I often times think about moving back downtown.  A good buddy of mine lives in the 430 lofts, too.  His name is Josh M.  You may or may not have met him at this point.  Nice pads over there for sure though.

----------


## ljbab728

This presents a few interesting perspectives from some current downtown area residents.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/542...klahoma%20City

----------


## bchris02

Unfortunately that article is behind a paywall.  Can somebody post what it says?

----------


## kevinpate

> Unfortunately that article is behind a paywall.  Can somebody post what it says?


Some folks decided to live DT.
They make DT feel like Sally Fields, circa 1985.
All are happy.
The end.

----------


## okatty

Curious how many people maintain a residence downtown but also have a residence other places even in OKC, Edmond, Norman, etc.  I know there are quite a few people from outlying areas in Okla who do this with condos, apartments, etc.

----------


## soonerguru

> This presents a few interesting perspectives from some current downtown area residents.
> 
> http://www.oklahoman.com/article/542...klahoma%20City


Do you work for the Oklahoman?

----------


## onthestrip

> Curious how many people maintain a residence downtown but also have a residence other places even in OKC, Edmond, Norman, etc.  I know there are quite a few people from outlying areas in Okla who do this with condos, apartments, etc.


Not sure about suburban dwellers having a place dt, I'm sure there are some, but I do know of a handful of folks that live in rural Okla and have a dt apartment. Some have occasional work in OKC and/or are just big fans of the thunder.

----------


## ljbab728

> Do you work for the Oklahoman?


Hardly.  I've just been a subscriber for about 50 years.

----------


## OKCinsomniac

I'm know I have mentioned a similar sentiment in another thread, but moving to the Deep Deuce area is probably the best decision I have made thus far. I know downtown living may not seem like it is for everyone, but it has definitely been positive for me.

----------


## bchris02

Does anybody know of anywhere in the urban core for $700/month or lower?  As much as I would like to live in the Edge, my current financial situation doesn't allow it.  I have long contemplated moving downtown though and being that I will be living in OKC for a while longer, I am thinking about actually taking the plunge if I can find something both affordable and desirable.  As a single guy I think I would be much happier than I am in the outer burbs.

----------


## AP

I am a little over that now at Deep Deuce Apartments, but that is with a roommate. I'm not sure it's possible otherwise.

----------


## dankrutka

> Does anybody know of anywhere in the urban core for $700/month or lower?  As much as I would like to live in the Edge, my current financial situation doesn't allow it.  I have long contemplated moving downtown though and being that I will be living in OKC for a while longer, I am thinking about actually taking the plunge if I can find something both affordable and desirable.  As a single guy I think I would be much happier than I am in the outer burbs.


$700 a month is going to require you to find something on the edges of downtown or a studio. You might check out the Claremont at 12th and Walker. I paid $500 (!!!) a month in 2011, but prices went up a lot when I was leaving. I had a studio with a Murphy bed and absolutely loved living there.

----------


## loveOKC

> Does anybody know of anywhere in the urban core for $700/month or lower?  As much as I would like to live in the Edge, my current financial situation doesn't allow it.  I have long contemplated moving downtown though and being that I will be living in OKC for a while longer, I am thinking about actually taking the plunge if I can find something both affordable and desirable.  As a single guy I think I would be much happier than I am in the outer burbs.



Check out The Haven OKC

The Haven | A1

More than $700, but probably the closest you'll get without a roommate.

----------


## Anonymous.

I see occasional craigslist posts with people who have [usually] relocated to OKC and are in a similar situation with a new job and needing a housemate. 

Like the others above have stated, it's nearly impossible to find single bedroom rentals for less than $1000. Also keep in mind, places advertising lower or near that - are usually not including parking.

----------


## bchris02

> I see occasional craigslist posts with people who have [usually] relocated to OKC and are in a similar situation with a new job and needing a housemate. 
> 
> Like the others above have stated, it's nearly impossible to find single bedroom rentals for less than $1000. Also keep in mind, places advertising lower or near that - are usually not including parking.


Thanks for the suggestions.  Yeah, a roommate isn't really an option for me.  Unfortunately I am a slave to my $600/month car payment so that really limits what I can do.  Is it possible to get lower a little farther out yet still in the urban core?  I may end up having to just stay where I am at.

----------


## AP

> $700 a month is going to require you to find something on the edges of downtown or a studio. You might check out the Claremont at 12th and Walker. I paid $500 (!!!) a month in 2011, but prices went up a lot when I was leaving. I had a studio with a Murphy bed and absolutely loved living there.


That's pretty crazy. When I moved to 430 Lofts in August 2013, the studio I rented was $850 a month.

----------


## bradh

> Thanks for the suggestions.  Yeah, a roommate isn't really an option for me.  Unfortunately I am a slave to my $600/month car payment so that really limits what I can do.  Is it possible to get lower a little farther out yet still in the urban core?  I may end up having to just stay where I am at.


couple of options between Lincoln and 35 north of the capital?

----------


## Anonymous.

Wow, $600 per month for a car?! Hope you love it, lol!

You may get lucky with something near the Plaza, but you have to check daily as stuff goes quick. I know some people who are renting near 16th street for relatively cheap considering the booming area.

----------


## dankrutka

> That's pretty crazy. When I moved to 430 Lofts in August 2013, the studio I rented was $850 a month.


Yeah. Even at the time I knew it was a steal, but I got in right before the area got really hot. This was before Louie's, Waffle Champion, the Ambassador, Fassler, the Garage, Packard's, etc.. There was still McNellie's, Kaiser's, Stella, Irma's, etc., but it's insane to think how much the area has grown in 5 years.

----------


## adaniel

> Yeah. Even at the time I knew it was a steal, but I got in right before the area got really hot. This was before Louie's, Waffle Champion, the Ambassador, Fassler, the Garage, Packard's, etc.. There was still McNellie's, Kaiser's, Stella, Irma's, etc., but it's insane to think how much the area has grown in 5 years.


When I lived at Harvey Lofts, I paid $925/month for 715 square feet 1BR 1bath. It was a pretty top of the line place so I was definitely getting a good deal. With that in mind, I moved in during the summer 2010 and Midtown was still a bit sketchy back then. Plaza Court, Stella, and what was then Midtown Deli were pretty much the only thing there. Needless to say, the hood has changed dramatically. When I moved last spring my landlord offered the place for $1075 and it leased within 3 days. 

So long story short, $700 is not happening in the immediate core. However, that price range is more than doable in some of the older buildings in Gatewood and Jefferson Park. Even a handful of the duplexes/triplexes in Heritage Hills//Mesta Park could be had for that price. No, you probably are not going to have super luxe units. But they would be nice, you are still very close to the action and the demographics/feel would be very similar.

----------


## Urbanized

Lots of fourplex and granny flat stuff in the near northwest neighborhoods. Older places can be super-charming. Just have to keep your eyes peeled and do some neighborhood reconnaissance.

----------


## Pete

Craigslist has a lot of rentals and you can search on a map to focus on where you want to be.

----------


## Teo9969

Yeah, you'll definitely be able to find things within the 40/235/44 ring. Try and get close to Western, 23rd, or the Plaza and you'll even be able to ride a bike or walk to a variety of places (although, I get the sense that you don't mind driving  :Tongue: ). But if you're in the ring, then everything is super convenient.

----------


## RedSoxFan

Great thread to read for a newbie like myself - lots of interesting things.

I am moving to Oklahoma this August and working as a faculty member at OU. I decided to rent for a year in Norman (actually close to Moore) and get to know the surrounding areas first. I am single/male/almost mid-30s (yikes!). My initial thought is buying a loft or condo in OKC, though I am curious what life is like in a college town like Norman (maybe that would work too, not sure yet).

Questions (yes I am a newbie, so I apologize in advance if others ask these things in other threads):
(1) What is the condo/loft market like for purchasing in OKC? Say, a 2 bed/2 bath place with dedicated parking.
(2) What areas in Downtown/Midtown have these types of places for sale and are safe/convenient?
(3) What's the commute like to Norman and back from the downtown neighborhoods? 
(4) What's the restaurant/bar scene like in downtown OKC? How about cultural things nearby to which to walk (park, museum)?

Thanks!

----------


## bradh

> Lots of fourplex and granny flat stuff in the near northwest neighborhoods. Older places can be super-charming. Just have to keep your eyes peeled and do some neighborhood reconnaissance.


Definitely do your due diligence on those older fourplexes and apartments in some of those hoods.  I have a friend who lives in an old apartment in Mesta Park and every time it rains there is sewer backup issues, and the owner seems to not give two craps about it.

----------


## Teo9969

> Great thread to read for a newbie like myself - lots of interesting things.
> 
> I am moving to Oklahoma this August and working as a faculty member at OU. I decided to rent for a year in Norman (actually close to Moore) and get to know the surrounding areas first. I am single/male/almost mid-30s (yikes!). My initial thought is buying a loft or condo in OKC, though I am curious what life is like in a college town like Norman (maybe that would work too, not sure yet).
> 
> Questions (yes I am a newbie, so I apologize in advance if others ask these things in other threads):
> (1) What is the condo/loft market like for purchasing in OKC? Say, a 2 bed/2 bath place with dedicated parking.
> (2) What areas in Downtown/Midtown have these types of places for sale and are safe/convenient?
> (3) What's the commute like to Norman and back from the downtown neighborhoods? 
> (4) What's the restaurant/bar scene like in downtown OKC? How about cultural things nearby to which to walk (park, museum)?
> ...


Before answering I just want to say Welcome to the OKC metro area! We'll be glad to have you. What will you be "professing" as a Sooner?

I'll define downtown for you real quick:  I-235/NW 13th/Classen Blvd./Oklahoma River. Midtown is a part of downtown and so I'm not going to divide them for discussion purposes. If you want to live in the densest area of downtown, you'll want to find something in Deep Deuce or Bricktown. If you don't mind a bit more walk time or riding your bike places, then anywhere downtown will fit you perfectly.

1. There's not a ton of options currently for purchase in Downtown OKC, and everything you can purchase goes for over $200/sq.ft. I'm not sure we have a lot of smaller units, but to be sure check out the for-sale options on this page: Downtown Housing Summary - OKCTalk

There are a lot of single family homes very close to downtown that go for anywhere from $30-50/sf up to $200/sf depending on where exactly you buy. Downtown is bordered by some incredibly nice residences (north) and some pretty depressed neighborhoods (to the West). The neighborhoods to the West are starting to see some gentrification especially if they're close to the Plaza district which is about 1 mile from the center of downtown.

2. Everywhere downtown is safe and convenient.

3. You definitely get the better end of the deal going in the opposite direction during Rush Hour. Overall, your commute to Norman from downtown would be between 25 - 35 minutes in normal traffic conditions. Heavy Congestion/Stoppage could tick that up to 45 and a wide-open highway could probably knock that down to 20 minutes if you speed a little.

4. Restaurant/Bar Scene in downtown is growing every day and has a good base already. Bricktown is OKC's largest downtown entertainment district with tons of restaurants and bars. On this site, you'll hear more negative things about it than good, but only because of jaded people who hold it to a standard we're trying to achieve in OKC. It's a nice district with some good options. In fact Skinny Slim's is one of my favorite bars and it's in Bricktown.

That being said, the quality of restaurants/bars, in my humble opinion, is a lot higher elsewhere in downtown. Midtown probably has the best scene and it's getting new quality restaurants seeming every month these days. All in all, downtown has, I'd guess over 100 bars/restaurants, again, with more opening seemingly every month. You definitely won't be disappointed if your expectations are in line with a normal city the size of OKC. And lots of people come from all over the city, so it's a great way to meet people from Edmond, Norman/Moore, Yukon, and the further regions of OKC.

----------


## Anonymous.

> Great thread to read for a newbie like myself - lots of interesting things.
> 
> I am moving to Oklahoma this August and working as a faculty member at OU. I decided to rent for a year in Norman (actually close to Moore) and get to know the surrounding areas first. I am single/male/almost mid-30s (yikes!). My initial thought is buying a loft or condo in OKC, though I am curious what life is like in a college town like Norman (maybe that would work too, not sure yet).
> 
> Questions (yes I am a newbie, so I apologize in advance if others ask these things in other threads):
> (1) What is the condo/loft market like for purchasing in OKC? Say, a 2 bed/2 bath place with dedicated parking.
> (2) What areas in Downtown/Midtown have these types of places for sale and are safe/convenient?
> (3) What's the commute like to Norman and back from the downtown neighborhoods? 
> (4) What's the restaurant/bar scene like in downtown OKC? How about cultural things nearby to which to walk (park, museum)?
> ...


1. I assume you mean downtown/midtown since you are talking about condo/loft. FOr 2 bed/2 bath with at least one dedicated parking spot is going to be anywhere around $280-320K+ depending on location and amenities. I have found in my market research that DeepDeuce area is basically right around $240 per sqft. 
2. DeepDeuce and Midtown (Eventually Metropolitan in AA and Steelyard in BT). However, most everything in these areas is rent. For-purchase is rare in these spots and held at a premium.
3. Not sure on time, but I would bet on it being much shorter than heading to a northern Suburb.
4. Check out the Restaurant/Bar forum just above this one, it is booming.

From your checklist, downtown is definitely where you want to be, but depending on your financial situation, maybe a 1 bedroom place to rent would be a good field test for you. Basically everything for bchris above, applies to you.

----------


## AP

Well they both covered everything I was going to say, so never mind. Everything they have here pretty much covers it though.

----------


## kevinpate

Or, stay in Norman and visit OKC.  You can find housing near the campus, or even in/near our downtown area.
If you have flexibility to time your trips into OKC, rather than being held to someone else's timetable, you'll rarely have traffic issues.

----------


## dankrutka

When I was 30 and finishing my PhD at OU I decided to move to Midtown OKC and commute to Norman, and it was great decision. The commute is easy and there's just way more happening for a 30 year old in OKC than in Norman (as much as I love Norman.) If it was me I'd try Deep Deuce and then Midtown. Having said that, Norman is a very good college town and if you're going to be on campus everyday then that's still a good choice.

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## sooner88

> When I was 30 and finishing my PhD at OU I decided to move to Midtown OKC and commute to Norman, and it was great decision. The commute is easy and there's just way more happening for a 30 year old in OKC than in Norman (as much as I love Norman.) If it was me I'd try Deep Deuce and then Midtown. Having said that, Norman is a very good college town and if you're going to be on campus everyday then that's still a good choice.


I did the same thing when getting my masters.. The commute is not bad at all if you avoid the 8:00 am and 5:00 pm timeframe, and even then you're still doing a reverse commute.

Norman is a great town, but the nightlife is still predominately college. If the commute is the only issue there's no question. I would rent for a year to make sure it worked before I jumped into anything though.

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## RedSoxFan

Thanks everyone for the advice. I will definitely explore the Midtown/Deep Deuce areas when I arrive and see if there is something I might like for next year. I saw a couple of apartment buildings online which I think are in those areas and they look nice (Level, Park Harvey).

At the risk of going off-topic (sorry in advance moderator!):

How far is OKC/Norman from good outdoors / nature scenery (hills, trees, forests, lakes etc.)? Coming from New England, I would love to still enjoy some of this (Yes, I know and understand this is the Plains and not New England). I saw some lakes on the map withing the metro, but when I was in Norman in May, the river (Oklahoma?) and Thunderbird Lake looked very muddy and red (maybe it was because of the torrential rains the area had). 

Are such outdoors adventures/sightseeing feasible for a day trip from downtown / Norman?

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## OkiePoke

> Thanks everyone for the advice. I will definitely explore the Midtown/Deep Deuce areas when I arrive and see if there is something I might like for next year. I saw a couple of apartment buildings online which I think are in those areas and they look nice (Level, Park Harvey).
> 
> At the risk of going off-topic (sorry in advance moderator!):
> 
> How far is OKC/Norman from good outdoors / nature scenery (hills, trees, forests, lakes etc.)? Coming from New England, I would love to still enjoy some of this (Yes, I know and understand this is the Plains and not New England). I saw some lakes on the map withing the metro, but when I was in Norman in May, the river (Oklahoma?) and Thunderbird Lake looked very muddy and red (maybe it was because of the torrential rains the area had). 
> 
> Are such outdoors adventures/sightseeing feasible for a day trip from downtown / Norman?


There is some nice local scenery.  But, most people will suggest about an hour to 1.5 hour drive. In Oklahoma, we call hills mountains btw...

Regarding the water color, it stays pretty red. It is from all the clay in the soil. There is actually a genre of music the plays on this, 'Red Dirt Music'. I would venture to say that the waters were more red than normal from all the rain though. The lakes in the eastern half of the state are normally cleaner looking due to them being in rocky areas.

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## mattjank

> Thanks everyone for the advice. I will definitely explore the Midtown/Deep Deuce areas when I arrive and see if there is something I might like for next year. I saw a couple of apartment buildings online which I think are in those areas and they look nice (Level, Park Harvey).
> 
> At the risk of going off-topic (sorry in advance moderator!):
> 
> How far is OKC/Norman from good outdoors / nature scenery (hills, trees, forests, lakes etc.)? Coming from New England, I would love to still enjoy some of this (Yes, I know and understand this is the Plains and not New England). I saw some lakes on the map withing the metro, but when I was in Norman in May, the river (Oklahoma?) and Thunderbird Lake looked very muddy and red (maybe it was because of the torrential rains the area had). 
> 
> Are such outdoors adventures/sightseeing feasible for a day trip from downtown / Norman?


What kind of adventures are you looking for? There are good mountain biking/hiking trails at Thunderbird, with a decent amount of elevation change at T-bird. If you're looking to kayak/canoe/SUP there are some spots on Thunderbird with decent put-ins, but more activity up at Lake Hefner and Lake Overholser. You'll be surprised if you expect the area to be flat. Plenty of hills on the east side of Norman and rollers throughout.

The area 1.5 hrs away is the Wichita Mountain Wildlife Refuge. Lots of great hiking and some nice dammed lakes in the park. There are quite a few other hiking places within 1 to 2 hour drive from the metro, Roman Nose State Park, Chickasha Recreational area, hiking and biking trails around Lake Murray. A little further and you can get to some great trail systems in the Ouachita  mountains in southeastern OK/Western Ark, and the Ozarks  in northwestern Ark.
Lots of great stuff around.

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## gopokes88

You'll learn a 1.5 hour drive in OK is very different then a 1.5 hour drive in NE.

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## Urbanized

> There is some nice local scenery.  But, most people will suggest about an hour to 1.5 hour drive. In Oklahoma, we call hills mountains btw...


A number of the peaks in the Ouachita range - including in the Kiamichi and Winding Stair subranges - just squeak by as mountains under the generally-accepted geological definition. Mount Scott also qualifies as a mountain, though most of the Wichitas are indeed hills, as are all of the Arbuckles. Both the Ouachitas and the Arbuckles are incredibly ancient and were once much larger, with the Ouachitas once rivaling the Rockies in height, though now that height has been largely eroded.

So while it's true that we are fairly generous when calling something a mountain, it's not fair to suggest that they don't exist here.

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## Urbanized

RedSoxFan, probably the closest to the New England scenery you are used to would be found in the SE part of the state, though there are also some wonderful winding back roads, rustic cabins, pine forests, rivers, hills and trees in NE OK at the foot of the Ozarks. I would suggest you visit the following websites:

TravelOK.com Homepage | TravelOK.com - Oklahoma's Official Travel & Tourism Site , which is a statewide resource
Central Oklahoma Frontier Country , which covers the 12 central counties (all surrounding OKC)
Oklahoma City Hotels, Restaurants, Events & Things to Do , which is the Oklahoma City Convention and Visitors Bureau site

Also, www.adventureroad.com , which is a Chickasaw Tribe sponsored regional tourism effort, which includes OKC south, throughout Chickasaw Country.

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## bchris02

The Ozarks and the Ouachitas aren't as tall as the valleys are deep.  Because of this, the scenery is very similar to some parts of the Appalachian mountains.

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## Urbanized

Just don't go looking for anything to compare with the Rockies and you'll be pleasantly surprised in SE OK. Many, MANY rivers, lakes, hiking trails, leafy forests, pine forests, winding roads, luxury cabins, not-so-luxury cabins, fly fishing during certain times of the year, fall foliage, and even swamps with alligators. As far as mountains, hills and scenery are concerned we actually fare better than nearly every state between the Appalachians and the Rockies. It's just not immediately next to OKC.

Oklahoma is one of the most geographically diverse states in the U.S., but most people - even often those who live here - are woefully unaware of this fact.

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## okatty

I grew up in SW Okla and had never been to SE Okla much until i was in college and grad school.  Had a friend from d there and went a few times with him and was totally shocked - would have never known we were in Okla on some of the trails, streams, etc he knew about and we hiked to.    Really gorgeous area.    Glover River, Beavers Bend, etc.

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## shawnw

> A number of the peaks in the Ouachita range - including in the Kiamichi and Winding Stair subranges - just squeak by as mountains under the generally-accepted geological definition. Mount Scott also qualifies as a mountain, though most of the Wichitas are indeed hills, as are all of the Arbuckles. Both the Ouachitas and the Arbuckles are incredibly ancient and were once much larger, with the Ouachitas once rivaling the Rockies in height, though now that height has been largely eroded.
> 
> So while it's true that we are fairly generous when calling something a mountain, it's not fair to suggest that they don't exist here.



All correct, but technically the geologic conditions that created those ranges experienced an approximate 20,000 ft upthrust. However the wind erosion of the area kept them from become a midwestern rocky mountain range.

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## LocoAko

> You'll learn a 1.5 hour drive in OK is very different then a 1.5 hour drive in NE.


Ain't that the truth.

I'm from the NYC area and my roommate is from southern NH, so if you have any questions about adjustments or anything feel free to shoot me a message. With an open mind (that is, taking Oklahoma for what it is, and not trying to make it into back home) I think you'll be surprised at how happy you'll be here.  :Smile:

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## HangryHippo

Beaver's Bend is as pretty an area as I've ever visited.  There are also some beautiful areas in the Chickasaw National Recreation Area.  Lots of natural beauty in Oklahoma, and the variety of landscapes is unsurpassed.

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## CCOKC

I walked the east trail of the Stinchomb Wildlife Refuge yesterday.  My husband and I were breaking in our new hiking boots we bought last week at REI while we were in Denver. We were very glad to have our boots on since this is one of the last trails in the Metro that is not paved. We saw quite a few people making use of the river either kayaking or fishing, but we were the only people we say on the trail during our 2 1/2 hour hike. We have a goal to hike the OK portion of the Ouachita Trail this fall for our first backpacking trip and we find this to be a pretty good hiking trail right here in the city.

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## Soonerinfiniti

While looking at this downtown Dallas listing:

Downtown Dallas dwelling's vertical 'hood is a huge selling point - CultureMap Dallas

($199,900, 757 SF, 25th floor condo)

Two things come to mind:

First, Dallas/Ft. Worth is the 4th largest metropolitan area in the United States.  And they only have 7,000 - 10,000 people living in the Dallas CBD core.  Perhaps Oklahoma City has unrealistic expectations regarding how many people "should" live downtown.

Second, this looks like a pretty nice building.  Perhaps OKC downtown's lack of supply has allowed local developers to build sub-par product and demand/achieve premium prices.  This listing for $265/SF and $300/month HOA looks pretty good.  Here's to hoping that out of state developers (like the Metropolitan) will up the game for quality in OKC!

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## Pete

Don't know how they came up with the downtown Dallas residents number of if it's accurate but OKC already has about the same amount in the core.

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## David

You can't really compare against one other city and reasonably declare OKC's expectations unrealistic. There is a large world that exists outside of Dallas, and many, many other cities.

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## bchris02

It depends on what you consider "downtown."  That number is probably right for the Dallas CBD but once you throw in Uptown and Oak Lawn, I wouldn't be surprised if the population increases to somewhere between 50,000 and 75,000 (could possibly be higher).   I really think that population level would be a good target for OKC to shoot for within the area bordered by Reno, I-235, 36th, and Classen.

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## Teo9969

Remember that OKC's CBD is less than 20 square blocks: Walker, Reno, EKG, 4th St.  Dallas's CBD is at least 3x the size of OKC's and it's also squeezed harder by interstates than OKC's is. It's very realistic to have 50,000 residents living downtown but only a few thousand of those living in the CBD.

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## Pete

I may very well be that OKC has more living units in a .5 mile radius from the center of it's CBD than Dallas.

How we define the CBD is very, very compact and thus not a good point of comparison.

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## DenverPoke

> It depends on what you consider "downtown."  That number is probably right for the Dallas CBD but once you throw in Uptown and Oak Lawn, I wouldn't be surprised if the population increases to somewhere between 50,000 and 75,000 (could possibly be higher).   I really think that population level would be a good target for OKC to shoot for within the area bordered by Reno, I-235, 36th, and Classen.


What estimate would you give for that area (Reno, 235, 36th, Classen) right now?

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## johnnyhooper

15,445. 

Greater Oklahoma City Chamber - Greater OKC Local Business Intelligence Tool

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## DenverPoke

> 15,445. 
> 
> Greater Oklahoma City Chamber - Greater OKC Local Business Intelligence Tool


Thanks,  great tool!

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## Teo9969

> 15,445. Attachment 11523
> 
> Greater Oklahoma City Chamber - Greater OKC Local Business Intelligence Tool


Interesting tool, but I highly suspect it's inaccurate. I looked at Mustang and according to this tool, Mustang has lost population since the 2010 census.

I suspect closer to around 20,000 live in that defined area, and certainly once the close to finished apartments wrap up downtown, which will add another 500 or so units to the mix, and probably no less than 800 people.

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## KayneMo

I found a website called Census Map Maker, I really like it! However, it uses data from the 2010 Census so it's already 5 years outdated. 

Drawing - WSJ Census Map Maker

Using bchris's boundaries, in 2010 there were 14,111 people living within NW 36th, Classen, Reno, and I-235.

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## KayneMo



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## Teo9969

> I found a website called Census Map Maker, I really like it! However, it uses data from the 2010 Census so it's already 5 years outdated. 
> 
> Drawing - WSJ Census Map Maker
> 
> Using bchris's boundaries, in 2010 there were 14,111 people living within NW 36th, Classen, Reno, and I-235.


Then we're probably already at 20,000 (or will reach it with the completion of this latest round of projects). The amount of change in that area in the last 5 years alone is quite spectacular. 

I mean, I guess there's the possibility that larger, poorer families have been forced out in favor of single professionals or young married couples, but I tend to think that it's more likely that tons of vacant properties have since been occupied, and only some of those types of families have been forced out. And when you consider how much downtown housing has come online in the last 5 years, it's hard to imagine we're not already there.

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## Canoe

The thing that is most annoying about living downtown is having to drive to get a good selection of quality produce. What is the trigger number to get a modern grocery store close by? 20k, 40k, 60k?

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## no1cub17

> The thing that is most annoying about living downtown is having to drive to get a good selection of quality produce. What is the trigger number to get a modern grocery store close by? 20k, 40k, 60k?


Kind of agree and kind of not. Native Roots usually has a good selection. And if not, Whole Foods is barely 10 min away in light traffic. But agree that a full service grocery would be more than welcome in downtown.

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## bchris02

Homeland at 18th and Classen also isn't as dirty as its reputation.  It's cleaner than most Wal-Mart.  It's just small and outdated looking.

I think the real issue here at this point isn't as much population as it is the much bigger problem that the OKC market doesn't have any national mainline grocery chains other than Wal-Mart.  Crest and Uptown Market are in slow growth mode and Homeland is slowly going out of business.  If Kroger or H-E-B were in the market, my speculation is that they probably would have opened a downtown store 5 years ago.

Apparently per Steve there are numerous deals happening behind the scenes that include a downtown grocer so hopefully one of them becomes a reality within the next few years.

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## Pete

I think the only one that is close to happening at this point is Sprouts at 4th & EKG.

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## bchris02

> I think the only one that is close to happening at this point is Sprouts at 4th & EKG.


That's good to hear.  How close would you say it is to happening?

What about the potential grocer in the Gold Dome?  There was also a rumored Uptown Market location for Midtown a couple of years ago.

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## ljbab728

> Homeland at 18th and Classen also isn't as dirty as its reputation.  It's cleaner than most Wal-Mart.  It's just small and outdated looking.
> 
> I think the real issue here at this point isn't as much population as it is the much bigger problem that the OKC market doesn't have any national mainline grocery chains other than Wal-Mart.  Crest and Uptown Market are in slow growth mode and Homeland is slowly going out of business.  If Kroger or H-E-B were in the market, my speculation is that they probably would have opened a downtown store 5 years ago.
> 
> Apparently per Steve there are numerous deals happening behind the scenes that include a downtown grocer so hopefully one of them becomes a reality within the next few years.


I find it interesting that the Homeland at May & Britton, which is probably the top Homeland store, is currently undergoing remodeling work while they are ignoring other stores which need it much more.

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## bchris02

> I find it interesting that the Homeland at May & Britton, which is probably the top Homeland store, is currently undergoing remodeling work while they are ignoring other stores which need it much more.


Yeah that store is already easily the nicest regular grocery store in the metro.  I really don't think it needs remodeling.  It's interesting that Homeland has chosen to spend money there and not some of their other stores which really need it.

Does Homeland not realize what opportunity they are squandering by not improving their 18th and Classen store?  It's just a matter of time before another player comes in and when it does, that store will be left behind.

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## Rover

> Yeah that store is already easily the nicest regular grocery store in the metro.  I really don't think it needs remodeling.  It's interesting that Homeland has chosen to spend money there and not some of their other stores which really need it.
> 
> Does Homeland not realize what opportunity they are squandering by not improving their 18th and Classen store?  It's just a matter of time before another player comes in and when it does, that store will be left behind.


They are about to face direct competition two blocks away from May and Britton.  It is the new Uptown Grocery, who will be formidable.  It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that they would try to reinforce their store appeal in order to compete and keep their current customer base.  If you look at the potential revenue and profit, there is no comparison between that store and the one on Classen.  

I suspect you will suddenly see reinvestment at the Classen store as soon as a competitor is announced downtown.  That, or they will just close it.

By the way, Homeland on May/Britton remodelling is nothing more than 7-11 is doing at May and Hefner.  It was doing great business and had no need to reinvest UNTIL OnCue announced and started building across the street.  Now they are updating their store there to try to keep their customers.  Customers will decide if it is too little, too late.  Just as they will with Homeland.

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## no1cub17

> I think the only one that is close to happening at this point is Sprouts at 4th & EKG.


Sounds great in theory, but I fear that would be the death sentence for Native Roots. As the original downtown grocer, I would hate to see them forced out by something larger they just can't compete with in size and scope. But such would be the natural progression of downtown.

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## onthestrip

> The thing that is most annoying about living downtown is having to drive to get a good selection of quality produce. What is the trigger number to get a modern grocery store close by? 20k, 40k, 60k?


While not in downtown, Buy For Less at 23rd and Penn is just a few mins away and pretty much has everything you can think of produce-wise.

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## AP

Yeah, only 3.5 miles away. Very good option for grocery in an urban environment. /sarcasm

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## bchris02

I would love to see an Uptown Grocery built somewhere in the urban core.  You would think with all the higher income homes in Heritage Hills, Mesta Park, and Edgemere Park, along with all the new housing coming along in Midtown and Deep Deuce that there would be interest.

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## Canoe

Buy for less is ok for 1989. It is the one I use because it is the best of a bad lot.  Also they have a nice Latino section.

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## Just the facts

3.5 miles might as well be 13.5 miles.  Things are either within walking distance or they aren't.  Once you are in a car the scale changes and the unit of measurement becomes time, not distance.  This is why people so willingly move to the suburban fringe where "drive 'till you qualify" is the prevailing attitude.

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## AP

Yes, I agree. I was being sarcastic, though in retrospect I can see how that would be hard to gather from my post.

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## musg8411

Why don't we have buses that only circulate downtown? I live and work downtown and to get anywhere I have to catch a bus coming from the suburbs, catch another bus going to suburbs at the transit hub to get somewhere downtown. Why don't they put a bus on the streetcar route until 2017. Seems like an easy fix for early adopters of the downtown okc lifestyle.

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## shawnw

Downtown discovery (Route 50) has circulated downtown for many years and is free to ride. It doesn't follow the streetcar route. Changing it to follow the streetcar route would probably be useful, though it does presently go to the boathouse and the streetcar will not so that might be an issue. I recently submitted a ticket to embark asking them to consider adding 10th street to Rt 50 (presently it doesn't go north of 5th).

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## musg8411

Yeah but it really doesn't extend to midtown, deep deuce, st Anthony, Sosa, etc where most people live downtown, right?

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## shawnw

In its defense, none of that was really a factor when the route was instituted. Part of the ticket I submitted was for them to re-evaluate the needs of downtown regarding that route. Also, there are other routes that touch other parts of downtown that just aren't free. For example there is a doctor that lives in my building and takes the bus to St Anthony everyday.

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## TheTravellers

> The thing that is most annoying about living downtown is having to drive to get a good selection of quality produce. What is the trigger number to get a modern grocery store close by? 20k, 40k, 60k?


Here's something I found recently (from 2009) that's interesting since it actually tells how sites a store (Mackey is a co-founder and CEO, emphasis mine):

https://reason.com/archives/2009/12/...s-health-care/ (quote is from page 2)

reason: How do you decide to site a store?

Mackey: Well, theres no more important decision that youre going to make than where you locate a store. If were going to invest, depending on the size of the store, anywhere from $8 million to $20-plus million in capital for a new store, and sign a lease of usually 20 years or longer, were making a long-term commitment and putting up a lot of capital. So we spend a lot of time and energy sorting through that. We do site analysis. We analyze our competition in an area. We look at the demographics of whos living there. We look at education levels, income. *Theres a whole bunch of variables, but I think by far the most important variable is the number of college graduates within a 16-minute drive time.*

reason: Why is that?

Mackey: I dont know exactly why. I can tell you that about 80 percent of our customers have college degrees. I can speculate that our customers, on average, are better educated and better informed. And a college degree, while not a perfect proxy for that, is the best we have in terms of demographic data that we can get. If people are going to change their diets and become more health conscious, they need to be generally better informed. Otherwise, you tend to eat the diets that you ate when you were a child. Most Americans dont eat diets that are particularly healthy, so it takes conscious effort to alter your diet and your eating and shopping patterns. And that correlates with education.

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## Pete

I think Sprouts is coming to downtown and that is the best possible solution to this issue.

They would absolutely murder it in the central core.  I like them much more than Whole Foods.

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## AP

So do I. What is the timeline on Landrun announcing something for that 4th and Gaylord lot?

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## Pete

Not sure of the timing and it's certainly not a done deal, but I know they've been working on this for a while and Sprouts wants to expand aggressively in OKC.  I believe their existing stores are doing great.

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