# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Moore >  Leaving Norman, Moving to Moore in Spring!

## G.Walker

Been in Norman 12 years, and hate to say this, but I am moving to Moore, its more progressive, and the city is not afraid to spend money on its school system and entertainment for its residents! To build a house is a lot cheaper also! Sorry Norman, but it was good while it lasted, but my family and I need a city that is one the move! I mean damn, when was the last time Norman built a new elementary school, like 20 years ago, when Moore just open 2 this Fall alone, come on Norman step your game up!

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## adaniel

I find it weird that someone moves to Moore from Norman for better education and more entertainment. And you are the first person to describe Moore as "progressive". NPS is one of the most highly regarded PSDs in the state. Where are you getting the fact that Norman doesn't spend money on education? Norman opened an elementary school last year (Truman) with plans to spend about $109 million in the next 3 years to renovate or open more. You can read it here. http://newsok.com/norman-public-scho...rticle/3495234. Will definitely agree with the home price thing. But then again you can usually keep home prices down when there are tons of available lots and plans for hundreds more around your town. Good luck trying to build home equity in that environment. Norman tends to have higher home prices because it is seen as a desirable place to live but doesn't have a ton of cheap-o tract housing coming online. Its called Supply and Demand. As for entertainment, lets see: festivals, 2 renowned museums, great restaurants, OU sports (outside of FB most are cheap or free) in exchange for a....Warren Theater? Um, okay...different strokes for different folks I guess. 

Not bashing Moore or your decision to move there, sometimes a change in life is good and good luck in doing so. I just find some of your reasoning a little odd.

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## G.Walker

> I find it weird that someone moves to Moore from Norman for better education and more entertainment. And you are the first person to describe Moore as "progressive". NPS is one of the most highly regarded PSDs in the state. Where are you getting the fact that Norman doesn't spend money on education? Norman opened an elementary school last year (Truman) with plans to spend about $109 million in the next 3 years to renovate or open more. You can read it here. http://newsok.com/norman-public-scho...rticle/3495234. Will definitely agree with the home price thing. But then again you can usually keep home prices down when there are tons of available lots and plans for hundreds more around your town. Good luck trying to build home equity in that environment. Norman tends to have higher home prices because it is seen as a desirable place to live but doesn't have a ton of cheap-o tract housing coming online. Its called Supply and Demand. As for entertainment, lets see: festivals, 2 renowned museums, great restaurants, OU sports (outside of FB most are cheap or free) in exchange for a....Warren Theater? Um, okay...different strokes for different folks I guess. 
> 
> Not bashing Moore or your decision to move there, sometimes a change in life is good and good luck in doing so. I just find some of your reasoning a little odd.


Oh ok, I'm sorry, you are talking about Truman Primary School, the rich kid elementary school in the middle of Brookhaven, right behind another elementary school, go figure! But you have kids on the east side of Norman at Kennedy Elementary that don't even have and actual classrooms, they have bookshelfs separating classes, give me a break! Moore just built two state of the art elementary schools (Oakridge, Heritage Trails) servicing middle class people, not rich people. And not to mention an astonishing new high school (SouthMoore).

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## jmarkross

> Oh ok, I'm sorry, you are talking about Truman Primary School, the rich kid elementary school in the middle of Brookhaven, right behind another elementary school, go figure! But you have kids on the east side of Norman at Kennedy Elementary that don't even have and actual classrooms, they have bookshelfs separating classes, give me a break! Moore just built two state of the art elementary schools (Oakridge, Heritage Trails) servicing middle class people, not rich people. And not to mention an astonishing new high school (SouthMoore).


The never-ending EAST-WEST Feud of Norman...was that way in the 1950's *will be so in another 50 years...*

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## NickFiggins

I think a major point of progress in the east/west divide will the Robinson underpass, it will have an impact on just what people think of the divide as they no longer have to physically stop at the tracks there. Another point of note the sealed corridor for the BNSF tracks through norman, that will allow trains to stop blaring their horns at all hours this slows eastside development. Nevertheless, home development East of 24th is taking off big time in East Norman. Its quality over quantity. There is nothing unique in Moore it is just suburbia and 25 years from now the homes will not hold their value, i.e. Putnam schools and its strip malls. The quality of life in Norman is what sets it apart, not just the physical condition of the schools but also the quality of the education in the schools. If it was about what the schools physically look like then why isn't everyone jumping at the chance to attend OKCPS? 
Moore's a good suburb, but I wouldn't go so far to call it more progressive. In norman the older neighborhoods and the preservation surrounding them are a mark of a dynamic town. What happens when all the lots are full in Moore? Will people want up keep homes that are what many architects call disposable construction?

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## Easy180

Lived in Moore for 10 yrs and it has come a long way but can't say it has any advantages to Norman aside from being closer to jobs and the Warren

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## Thunder

I would pick Norman.

Btw, very soon, there will be a brand new state-of-the-art Crest Fresh Market in Norman.

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## SOONER8693

southmoore high looks very nice on the outside, check out the inisde. Corners were cut everywhere because of drastic cost overruns. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

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## adaniel

Schools are built according to where enrollment figures project a need for it. Have you thought about talking to the administration at Kennedy and addressing your concerns before taking the drastic step of moving? 

I can tell you that as someone who grew up in the fast growing suburbs of Dallas and had an opportunity to go to several new schools, the best school I went to was my high school that was nearly 30 years old by the time I went to it. I think it largely was the fact that the staff there was more established and more in tune to what the students in the community needed. But hey, if shiny and new impress you go ahead. I would put stock into more things like ACT scores, average classroom size, etc. Like NickFiggins stated new school construction has seem to have a negligible effect on the performance of OKCPS.  

Like I stated, sometimes a move is good for a family or person to shake them out of their rut. And Moore is really an okay town. But if you think that moving from a place like Norman to Moore where the only real difference is slightly newer facilitates and think it will lead to a dramatic change in your children's education you may be disappointed.

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## easternobserver

if you are so impressed with sprawl, and think it is "progressive" to build mega-strip-malls, why not move to plano or henderson nevada?

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## z28james

Lived in Moore and I live in Norman. Went to Moore Public Schools. I would have to say Norman is better in every way and the discrepancy between East Moore and West Moore is much wider too. Had a couple friends that went to Houchin Elementary and they didn't have walls either in that school. All of my friends neighborhoods have gone way down hill over what they used to be as well. I do like Moore though, it has the Warren, has good bang for the buck, but I would never say it's better than Norman. I would even say MWC or Yukon give Moore a run for it's money. If anything I would move to south side OKC Earlywine area before Moore.

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## G.Walker

Never said that Moore was "better" than Norman, I said that it was more progressive. And I am not just basing my move on the the school system. Moore's housing market is booming in subdivisions like Talavera, Lakewoods, and Rock Creek Estates. It also doesn't take 20 mins, to drive to the west side to sit and have a nice dinner with my family. Not as crowded, closer to Okc, and the city keeps it's promises to it's residents! Not to mention it's commercial development has left Norman in the dust...They also have residential and commercial development that supports middle class people. In Norman you are either really rich or really poor, and no in between, with exception of college students, so with that said Moore here we come!

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## G.Walker

This is really nice to www.fritts.net

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## Jesseda

moore will be happy to have you G.Walker, we just voted for a lot of great things in moore and it passed, so moore will be even better

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## bluedogok

Are those schools with "bookshelves separating classrooms" built in the mid-70"s? Because the "open classroom" concept was popular in school design in the early to mid-70's. My jr. high (Mayfield) was only open a couple of years before I started 7th grade and it had a few of those open classroom plans, but the time my sister went there (12 years later) they had already took down the operable partitions and bookcases and replaced it with glass storefront. There is nothing wrong with older schools, they can be much nicer than new ones if the maintenance is done properly, the problem is most districts that is where the cuts first start to happen because shiny new schools attracts more bond voters that redoing an older school.

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## BG918

> I think a major point of progress in the east/west divide will the Robinson underpass, it will have an impact on just what people think of the divide as they no longer have to physically stop at the tracks there. Another point of note the sealed corridor for the BNSF tracks through norman, that will allow trains to stop blaring their horns at all hours this slows eastside development. Nevertheless, home development East of 24th is taking off big time in East Norman. Its quality over quantity. There is nothing unique in Moore it is just suburbia and 25 years from now the homes will not hold their value, i.e. Putnam schools and its strip malls. The quality of life in Norman is what sets it apart, not just the physical condition of the schools but also the quality of the education in the schools. If it was about what the schools physically look like then why isn't everyone jumping at the chance to attend OKCPS? 
> Moore's a good suburb, but I wouldn't go so far to call it more progressive. In norman the older neighborhoods and the preservation surrounding them are a mark of a dynamic town. What happens when all the lots are full in Moore? Will people want up keep homes that are what many architects call disposable construction?


I agree.  I could easily see Moore looking like northwest OKC in 20 years.  Sure it's nice and new now but so was northwest OKC, and the Putnam school districts were the best in the metro at one time.  Norman will always hold its value due to OU and its continued investment in the areas around the campus.

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## dismayed

> I would pick Norman.
> 
> Btw, very soon, there will be a brand new state-of-the-art Crest Fresh Market in Norman.


Hey that's really great news.  Norman is the third-largest city in the state and it is really under-served in the supermarket arena... the city really needs a Whole Foods or a Fresh Market.  Glad to hear it's a Fresh Market, Normanites like to keep things local.

Any more details Thunder?

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## rcjunkie

Construction will start soon on a new (EAST SIDE) elemenatry school in Norman at SE 24th and Highway 9, and within the next 3--4 years, a new middle school will be built in East Norman and Irving  Middle School will become Norman's third High School.

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## BG918

> Construction will start soon on a new (EAST SIDE) elemenatry school in Norman at SE 24th and Highway 9, and within the next 3--4 years, a new middle school will be built in East Norman and *Irving  Middle School will become Norman's third High School*.


Norman East High School?

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## kevinpate

In light of the city's growth, there is definitely a need for more classrooms and physical plants at all three levels.  Way too many modular classroom, aged and not so aged alike, exist in our school system.  My youngest is in his final year, but the kiddos of my friends are not.  It if doe them I truly wish we were further ahead of the growth than we are at present.

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## earlywinegareth

I grew up in Norman and live in SW OKC (Westmoore) now.  20 years ago, Norman was better than Moore.  Now they're about equal.  

I'm a Cleveland county guy regardless...Moore/Norman whatever, it's still better than the rest of the metro IMO.

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## triumphrider74

Good riddance!  If you don't like Norman, leave.  I think Moore is a craphole compared to Norman in every category.  This isn't even worth arguing.

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## Easy180

> Good riddance!  If you don't like Norman, leave.  I think Moore is a craphole compared to Norman in every category.  This isn't even worth arguing.


Don't let us catch you at our Harley Davidson store then

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## blangtang

I also got tired of Norman and moved.  Not to Moore, but to inner north side OKC.  Sold a house this summer I'd been in since 1999 down by the campus.  The campus neighborhood was going thru the usual gentrification steps and the city was getting on my case about the condition of my property. It was actually the nosy neighbors notifying the city code officers of others' property they didnt approve of.   I actually ended up having a failure to appear warrant out for my arrest due to a health and safety code violation-the city claimed some peeling external paint on the house was a health violation.  I even painted the portion of the exterior where the paint was peeling, but the code people still issued a code violation.  

Long story short, to me it  wasn't worth living in Norman any longer.  Gentrification is interesting.  I like some people in Norman and the area around the campus is worth visiting when i return.

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## MikeLucky

> I also got tired of Norman and moved.  Not to Moore, but to inner north side OKC.  Sold a house this summer I'd been in since 1999 down by the campus.  The campus neighborhood was going thru the usual gentrification steps and the city was getting on my case about the condition of my property. It was actually the nosy neighbors notifying the city code officers of others' property they didnt approve of.   I actually ended up having a failure to appear warrant out for my arrest due to a health and safety code violation-the city claimed some peeling external paint on the house was a health violation.  I even painted the portion of the exterior where the paint was peeling, but the code people still issued a code violation.  
> 
> Long story short, to me it  wasn't worth living in Norman any longer.  Gentrification is interesting.  I like some people in Norman and the area around the campus is worth visiting when i return.


So you are saying that the people that are trying to make the neighborhood a nicer and better place to live, and thusly increase your property value... drove you to move?????

Sounds like the gentrification is working. lol

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## okclee

That is a funny story, welcome to South Okc! lol

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## triumphrider74

> Don't let us catch you at our Harley Davidson store then


No worries.  Check out my user name.  I ride a TRIUMPH.  

You really, really proved my point. 

What's the difference between a Harley and a Hoover?

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## triumphrider74

The position of the dirtbag.

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## Easy180

> No worries.  Check out my user name.  I ride a TRIUMPH.  
> 
> You really, really proved my point. 
> 
> What's the difference between a Harley and a Hoover?


A triumph isn't a Harley...how so very not interesting

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## jmarkross

*Get an Indian...*

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## triumphrider74

> A triumph isn't a Harley...how so very not interesting


Great comeback.   :Headscratch:

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## bradzilla

Moore progressive ??? Well they have recently brought in alot of big box retailers that you find all over the rest of the city. 

I lived there a few years ago and have no strong desire to ever move back. But if you are looking for cheaply priced cookie cutter homes on flat lots with no trees then its a great place to live. It wasnt a bad experience and i hold nothing against the city its just a very bland lifestyle(to me) but obviously a lot of people like it.  Dan Mcguiness pub is the only place that i'll occasionally go back to visit that i cant find in any other part of the city.

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## bradzilla

duplicate

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## Easy180

> Moore progressive ??? Well they have recently brought in alot of big box retailers that you find all over the rest of the city. 
> 
> I lived there a few years ago and have no strong desire to ever move back. But if you are looking for cheaply priced cookie cutter homes on flat lots with no trees then its a great place to live. It wasnt a bad experience and i hold nothing against the city its just a very bland lifestyle(to me) but obviously a lot of people like it.  Dan Mcguiness pub is the only place that i'll occasionally go back to visit that i cant find in any other part of the city.


I hear ya...not sure how old you are but I wouldn't be too excited living in Moore if I was still in my 20's

Good city to raise a family for sure but if u are lookin for nightlife this ain't the place

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## Jesseda

so moore is different from norman then, norman loves drunk nightlife parties and moore is the place to settle down and raise a family? Got it thanks for clearing it up...okay so it common for people to make there city they live in the best and no one can compete with them, all the cities around okc have great positive things and some not so great, I personally like moore, but i live in moore thats why i like it, i choose to live here. Everyone has an opinion, but there is  no need to bash all the time.

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## ljbab728

> so moore is different from norman then, norman loves drunk nightlife parties and moore is the place to settle down and raise a family? Got it thanks for clearing it up...okay so it common for people to make there city they live in the best and no one can compete with them, all the cities around okc have great positive things and some not so great, I personally like moore, but i live in moore thats why i like it, i choose to live here. Everyone has an opinion, but there is  no need to bash all the time.


Jesseda, I understand what you're saying but there is more to nightlife than getting drunk.  Moore certainly has bars.  How about live theater and concerts along with numerous art and food festivals?  Raising children where they can be exposed to cultural events has some advantages.

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## flintysooner

> Jesseda, I understand what you're saying but there is more to nightlife than getting drunk.  Moore certainly has bars.  How about live theater and concerts along with numerous art and food festivals?  Raising children where they can be exposed to cultural events has some advantages.


Not to be argumentative but I thought I might respond to your points.

I can't think of any bars in Moore other than something associated with food such as Louie's or Warren Theater.  I remember when Buffalo Wild Wings went in that it was said it was so busy because it was about the only place to have a beer.  

Probably surprise you to learn that there is live theater at the Yellow Rose which is actually an enjoyable experience.  I believe there are other occasional venues as well.

There actually are some artist types who call Moore home as well or at least I've read the accounts in several publications.  I suppose the best known art and food offerings would be had at the annual 4th of July event which is rather well attended.   But there are others as well but you'd probably not know much of them unless you were a part of the community.

Also Moore is rather well situated for travel to both other metropolitan areas and most anywhere in the State.  So it isn't unusual to travel to downtown Oklahoma City, Edmond, Norman, Yukon, Shawnee, Lawton, and so on from Moore.  This is by personal experience.  In a way it is kind of nice to be able to eat lunch one day at Victoria's in Norman, Nonna's the next, Jo's in Edmond the next, and even Bankgkok Restaurant on occasion. 

For a very long time there was not much retail in Moore but while the market is still under-served compared to other areas there is a good variety now of retail opportunity.  There is also a hospital, schools of various kinds, several restaurants, and rather good public services including police and fire.  There are very nice new fire stations under construction now and soon to open.

A new police station is being built.  A downtown location was chosen and one of the goals was to help renew the downtown area.  In that same regard there is considerable streetscape work that has occurred there.  Granted that Moore's downtown is never going to compete with Norman's or Oklahoma City's or Edmond's but what is there is being respected and efforts made to improve and preserve. 

There is a very active Chamber of Commerce and grand openings of new businesses are surprisingly well attended.  If you open a small business in Moore then you will be welcomed by a group of other business owners who will invite you to participate with them afterward.  I've lived in Oklahoma City, Norman, Moore, and out of state and have never witnessed this same thing elsewhere.

The alumni association for the school awards annual scholarships and has a fund at the Oklahoma City Community Foundation.  The association is sponsoring an annual 5K run now.

There are opportunities for political and public service in Moore.  Citizen involvement is desired and promoted.  

There is housing in most price ranges.  I will grant if you want a prestigious address then Moore is probably not the place for you but that isn't exactly unique to Moore.

There is just the beginning of new daytime business and professional opportunities now.

There is certainly plenty of criticism that can and is directed at the community but no more than I see towards other metropolitan areas. 

Moore may not be a perfect place but it is certainly a reasonable choice to consider for many people who are looking for a community to call home.

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## Jesseda

well said flintysooner, I love moore, i love living here, I also enjoy norman and parts of okc, and you are right, if you want to do something in norman it takes minutes to get thre, if you want to go to bricktown-downtown okc, it takes maybe 15-20 minutes, Love it that way

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## earlywinegareth

Moore is much better now than 10-20 years ago - new hospital, retail, restaurants, movie theatre.  I still say they're more alike than ever.  Heck, the way they are growing together pretty soon we can call the whole region Moorman or even better refer to the stretch of I-35 between 89th and the Canadian River bridge as the "MoorNor corridor".  Hey I should copyright that.

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## adaniel

I have no problem with Moore. It is what it is, a low key, new suburb that would probably stink if your young and single, but a great place to raise a family. And it has definitely improved over the years. You could make the same argument about several cities outside OKC or Norman, or in this country for that matter. My issue is that the OP is automatically saying brand new=better. Certainly he is free to do whatever he pleases and I wish him well in his move, but some of his reasoning is strange to the point of being false and I think he will be pretty bummed when he lives in Moore and finds he just undertook a costly move and little changed in his or his family's lives. 

But its not just the short term. A lot of people have thrown out the PC area as an example of what happens with brand new suburbs and time. I'll give a more extreme example. Some relatives of mine in the late 70's moved from OKC to Houston, and settled in the Mission Bend area. Like Moore, it was a very new, fast growing middle class area with lots of new areas and new families moving to the area fueled by the oil boom at the time. Fast foward 30 years and nothing is the same. The once new shopping centers are all half empty, the neighborhood has gone way down with lots of homes now rentals, which has brought a lot bad criminal element into the area. They are trying to sell their house and get out while they can but are finding out they are going to take a bath because their proeprty values have tanked and will be lucky to break even after realtor fees. They are looking around wondering what happened to their once great neighborhood. Its just the life cycle of suburbs in this part of the world. I can't say that it won't happen in Moore, or even some parts of Norman (some parts around 12th and Lindsey are starting to look a bit iffy already), but the facts don't lie. Unless an area is pricey enough to where it can keep the bad element away (Edmond, Nichols Hills) or it has some sort of draw like a major employer or university (Norman) new suburbs will always start going down after a while. Thats why I find the OP's declaration about how "progressive" and nicer Moore is because it threw up a bunch of strip malls and Home-Creations developments laughable. Will he still think that when all those new strip malls are full of liquor stores and pawns shops or his once new, affordable neighborhoods are half rentals and look like hell? Its less a matter of "if" and more of "when" it will happen.  

I'm sorry if my post sounds elitist, suburbs are not horrible. I grew up in very nice one and am very greatful for it. But even now my parents would agree with me that burbs tend to cycle, and it was something they did not realize at the time when they were too busy being wowed by how shiny and new everything was. Truthfully, we could argue forever about how suburban development/urban sprawl and what its effects are.

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## flintysooner

> I have no problem with Moore. It is what it is, a low key, new suburb that would probably stink if your young and single, but a great place to raise a family. And it has definitely improved over the years. You could make the same argument about several cities outside OKC or Norman, or in this country for that matter. My issue is that the OP is automatically saying brand new=better. Certainly he is free to do whatever he pleases and I wish him well in his move, but some of his reasoning is strange to the point of being false and I think he will be pretty bummed when he lives in Moore and finds he just undertook a costly move and little changed in his or his family's lives. 
> 
> But its not just the short term. A lot of people have thrown out the PC area as an example of what happens with brand new suburbs and time. I'll give a more extreme example. Some relatives of mine in the late 70's moved from OKC to Houston, and settled in the Mission Bend area. Like Moore, it was a very new, fast growing middle class area with lots of new areas and new families moving to the area fueled by the oil boom at the time. Fast foward 30 years and nothing is the same. The once new shopping centers are all half empty, the neighborhood has gone way down with lots of homes now rentals, which has brought a lot bad criminal element into the area. They are trying to sell their house and get out while they can but are finding out they are going to take a bath because their proeprty values have tanked and will be lucky to break even after realtor fees. They are looking around wondering what happened to their once great neighborhood. Its just the life cycle of suburbs in this part of the world. I can't say that it won't happen in Moore, or even some parts of Norman (some parts around 12th and Lindsey are starting to look a bit iffy already), but the facts don't lie. Unless an area is pricey enough to where it can keep the bad element away (Edmond, Nichols Hills) or it has some sort of draw like a major employer or university (Norman) new suburbs will always start going down after a while. Thats why I find the OP's declaration about how "progressive" and nicer Moore is because it threw up a bunch of strip malls and Home-Creations developments laughable. Will he still think that when all those new strip malls are full of liquor stores and pawns shops or his once new, affordable neighborhoods are half rentals and look like hell? Its less a matter of "if" and more of "when" it will happen.  
> 
> I'm sorry if my post sounds elitist, suburbs are not horrible. I grew up in very nice one and am very greatful for it. But even now my parents would agree with me that burbs tend to cycle, and it was something they did not realize at the time when they were too busy being wowed by how shiny and new everything was. Truthfully, we could argue forever about how suburban development/urban sprawl and what its effects are.


I don't think it is elitist.  

Moore is neither new nor has it experienced the same kind of explosive growth as other areas of the region.  Moore is very small in land area and locked in by Norman and Oklahoma City.  The slow growth has been beneficial to property values because while there was not tremendous run up there was not a big let down either. 

I'm not sure why you think it is not progressive.  When I was young way back when the city government was terrible.  There were nearly no standards for much of anything.  But in the past couple of decades the government has improved tremendously.  Standards now exist.  Until a few years ago there wasn't even a place to buy a 2x4.  There have been many projects undertaken just for beautification.  For instance there have been many trees planted and there has been a real effort to clean things up.  Is there more room for continued improvement?  Certainly there is.  But by any definition of progressive that I know it seems to me that the community deserves some credit.  

Moore isn't trying to be Norman or Oklahoma City or Edmond or anything but Moore.  Not everyone is going to like Moore but that's fine and as it should be.

But I admit I am a big fan of Stephen Covey and I do tend to look for win-win situations.

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## G.Walker

> I don't think it is elitist.  
> 
> Moore is neither new nor has it experienced the same kind of explosive growth as other areas of the region.  Moore is very small in land area and locked in by Norman and Oklahoma City.  The slow growth has been beneficial to property values because while there was not tremendous run up there was not a big let down either. 
> 
> I'm not sure why you think it is not progressive.  When I was young way back when the city government was terrible.  There were nearly no standards for much of anything.  But in the past couple of decades the government has improved tremendously.  Standards now exist.  Until a few years ago there wasn't even a place to buy a 2x4.  There have been many projects undertaken just for beautification.  For instance there have been many trees planted and there has been a real effort to clean things up.  Is there more room for continued improvement?  Certainly there is.  But by any definition of progressive that I know it seems to me that the community deserves some credit.  
> 
> Moore isn't trying to be Norman or Oklahoma City or Edmond or anything but Moore.  Not everyone is going to like Moore but that's fine and as it should be.
> 
> But I admit I am a big fan of Stephen Covey and I do tend to look for win-win situations.


Thank you, someone who actually agrees with me in some areas! My main rationale for my argument is that Moore serves middle class people better then Norman. I am not poor, or rich, but I am middle class, and Moore seems to fit for me and my family. We will be in the Rock Creek Estates addition, which is far from Home Creations and Westpoint. The housing market in Moore is booming, and their infrastructure is better than Norman also. Moore as a whole, is not better than Norman, but you have to realize Norman is twice the size of Moore, so they will have more amenities to serve its population. However, it seems that the City of Moore, is serving its population more efficiently than Norman. The  City of Moore has sound characteristics in the markets of retail, housing, and public services, which is very attractive.

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## Jesseda

G.Walker, my sister lives in the rock creek.. she lives off kelsi, she loves it there

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## triumphrider74

Time to move it to Moore section of the forum. . . and don't come back.

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## ourelsjenn

No one ever answered about the Crest Fresh Market in Norman.  What is the scoop????

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## dankrutka

The Moore school system really excels because of the Oklahoma City (Westmoore) part of it's population. I never thought I'd hear someone describe Moore as more progressive than Norman. Moore is just now getting a temporary (and crappy) recycling location. Norman has curbside. Moore has generic strip malls and chain restaurants, while Norman has Campus Corner and great local food. Norman has a major university (with great museums, entertainment, and events), Moore has... well, nothing comparable. Norman has a large downtown music festival. Moore has... well, nothing comparable. Norman has good live music venues. Moore has, well, nothing comparable. I could go on and on.... Like others have said, Moore is what it is, but to say it is more progressive than Norman is an absolute joke.

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## triumphrider74

> The Moore school system really excels because of the Oklahoma City (Westmoore) part of it's population. I never thought I'd hear someone describe Moore as more progressive than Norman. Moore is just now getting a temporary (and crappy) recycling location. Norman has curbside. Moore has generic strip malls and chain restaurants, while Norman has Campus Corner and great local food. Norman has a major university (with great museums, entertainment, and events), Moore has... well, nothing comparable. Norman has a large downtown music festival. Moore has... well, nothing comparable. Norman has good live music venues. Moore has, well, nothing comparable. I could go on and on.... Like others have said, Moore is what it is, but to say it is more progressive than Norman is an absolute joke.


Good post, Kilgore.

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## flintysooner

> The Moore school system really excels because of the Oklahoma City (Westmoore) part of it's population. I never thought I'd hear someone describe Moore as more progressive than Norman. Moore is just now getting a temporary (and crappy) recycling location. Norman has curbside. Moore has generic strip malls and chain restaurants, while Norman has Campus Corner and great local food. Norman has a major university (with great museums, entertainment, and events), Moore has... well, nothing comparable. Norman has a large downtown music festival. Moore has... well, nothing comparable. Norman has good live music venues. Moore has, well, nothing comparable. I could go on and on.... Like others have said, Moore is what it is, but to say it is more progressive than Norman is an absolute joke.


I suppose you were referring to one of my posts.

I believe Moore is progressive in the sense that the community including citizens and leaders have tried very hard to do something with the resources available and in many ways have achieved significant improvements for the community.   You mention for instance the fact that Moore is just now working on recycling.  You see that as failure because it does not meet the same standard as Norman's effort.  It seems to me that it is quite progressive though to move from nothing to something and to be looking forward to further improvements.

Personally I see no reason to denigrate Norman or Oklahoma City or Edmond or any other community in the metropolitan area and really find it difficult to understand why others seem to have to always find worth by comparison.

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## yessir69

Do we need to put up a DMZ between Moore and Norman?  Sure seems like a lot of anger over two neighbors that are probably more alike than you would all like to admit.  Just as a matter of proximity, can the two towns really be that different???

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## jmarkross

> Do we need to put up a DMZ between Moore and Norman?  Sure seems like a lot of anger over two neighbors that are probably more alike than you would all like to admit.  Just as a matter of proximity, can the two towns really be that different???


*Been going on for at least 50 years--that I know of...*

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## ljbab728

> *Been going on for at least 50 years--that I know of...*


Not really that long, jmark.  When I was growing up in Norman, Moore was so small we hardly even thought about it.  That was mostly in the 50's and 60's.

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## kevinpate

> Do we need to put up a DMZ between Moore and Norman?  Sure seems like a lot of anger over two neighbors that are probably more alike than you would all like to admit.  Just as a matter of proximity, can the two towns really be that different???


It's already there, roughly 3/4 mile either side of Indian Hills Road.  As tensions have escalated, plans were spearheaded by Normanites to move the county jail closer to Moore, so the bad folks from the north can be largely kept on their side of Tecumseh Road.
 :Smile:

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## jmarkross

> Not really that long, jmark.  When I was growing up in Norman, Moore was so small we hardly even thought about it.  That was mostly in the 50's and 60's.


I was there then as well...*back when Moore had the only stop lights on I-35 in the nation...*

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## flintysooner

Pretty sure some of you guys are my age.  So I was there before the Interstate.  

And where I lived wasn't in Moore until about 1964 because Moore stopped at South 4th Street.  I recall we weren't terribly happy about being in anyone's city.

Norman and Oklahoma City both seemed a long ways off back then.  So a lot of people in and around Moore actually went to Norman for "city" things like lawyers and title work and banking and clothes and such.  And back then you couldn't get anyone to come out to the farm which was fine because no one ever thought of that anyway.

I don't remember that much rivalry between Moore and anyone really probably because Moore was so small it was just kind of overlooked.  It is still kind of that way really.

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## jmarkross

> Pretty sure some of you guys are my age.  So I was there before the Interstate.  
> 
> And where I lived wasn't in Moore until about 1964 because Moore stopped at South 4th Street.  I recall we weren't terribly happy about being in anyone's city.
> 
> Norman and Oklahoma City both seemed a long ways off back then.  So a lot of people in and around Moore actually went to Norman for "city" things like lawyers and title work and banking and clothes and such.  And back then you couldn't get anyone to come out to the farm which was fine because no one ever thought of that anyway.
> 
> I don't remember that much rivalry between Moore and anyone really probably because Moore was so small it was just kind of overlooked.  It is still kind of that way really.


Remember the farmer who put up a big billboard saying...*"Stealing is now legal in Cleveland County...."?*

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## ljbab728

> Remember the farmer who put up a big billboard saying...*"Stealing is now legal in Cleveland County...."?*


jmark,  that brought back another memory for me from my youth.  When the Brookhaven addition was being built on the north side of Robinson in west Norman it was just farm land on the south side of Robinson.  The woman who owned that land didn't like what Brookhaven was doing and put up a large sign saying "Home Sites for Coloreds".  Can you imagine the uproar if something like that was done today?  And, as I've mentioned before,  the sign you're talking could have very easily been something that my grandfather could have done when part of his land was taken for I35 through Norman.

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## jmarkross

> jmark,  that brought back another memory for me from my youth.  When the Brookhaven addition was being built on the north side of Robinson in west Norman it was just farm land on the south side of Robinson.  The woman who owned that land didn't like what Brookhaven was doing and put up a large sign saying "Home Sites for Coloreds".  Can you imagine the uproar if something like that was done today?  And, as I've mentioned before,  the sign you're talking could have very easily been something that my grandfather could have done when part of his land was taken for I35 through Norman.


The sign I mentioned was by a farmer on the road from Moore eastward that went over to Hollywood Corner and some guy caught some thieves and called the police and they let the guys go and he got somewhat bent out of shape...it was in those days similar to when the town of Fletcher was not given an off-ramp to the Bailey Turnpike and they put up the big billboard that said...*"Fletcher--Not Big Enough for an Exit--BUT--Big Enough Not To Like It!!"*

The colored sign you mentioned goes back to the days (pre about ~1965) when* hyper-liberal Norman.*..politely agreed among it realtors *NOT to sell any property or homes to black-folk*...one of the reasons I think *liberals are the ultimate charlatans and liars*...they love all ethnic types--*as long as they stay the hell out of THEIR neighborhoods...*

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## flintysooner

> Remember the farmer who put up a big billboard saying...*"Stealing is now legal in Cleveland County...."?*


I don't recall that sign.

I do remember when they widened Highway 37 (134th) from Moore west and moved the old stand of cedars back away from the road.  Eventually they died and the land owner painted a sign on the old barn roof.  Always made me sad about those old cedars although I did really appreciate the widening of that road.  I'm not sure I ever have driven a darker, more narrow stretch of road as it was back then.

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## Mr T

I don't know, JMR, I could be wrong (it's happened before!)  but I do not think that it was so much "hyper-liberal Norman" (??) deciding amongst themselves to not sell homes to black people pre-1965 or whenever.  I think it was pretty standard practice across the USA.  My mother was a realtor back in Connecticut in those days and it was the same situation there.  My former husband and I lived in Denver in the seventies and it was the same situation there.  Just try to get a mortgage in Five Points in 1975!  Ha ha ha!!!  Red-lining.  We couldn't even get a TV delivered!  We looked at each other and said "Wow!  They really DON'T come up into the hills anymore!"

Dr. Henderson was the first block-buster in a small town, and many people are still here who remember it, and it has become an iconic story told every year.  It was not unique to Norman, however, in my experience.

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## Martin

we're straying a bit into politics territory... let's try to keep political opinions to the politics forum. -M

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## Mr T

Oops!  Sorry!!

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## jmarkross

> I don't know, JMR, I could be wrong (it's happened before!)  but I do not think that it was so much "hyper-liberal Norman" (??) deciding amongst themselves to not sell homes to black people pre-1965 or whenever.  I think it was pretty standard practice across the USA.  My mother was a realtor back in Connecticut in those days and it was the same situation there.  My former husband and I lived in Denver in the seventies and it was the same situation there.  Just try to get a mortgage in Five Points in 1975!  Ha ha ha!!!  Red-lining.  We couldn't even get a TV delivered!  We looked at each other and said "Wow!  They really DON'T come up into the hills anymore!"
> 
> Dr. Henderson was the first block-buster in a small town, and many people are still here who remember it, and it has become an iconic story told every year.  It was not unique to Norman, however, in my experience.


My Mom was a realtor in Norman for 35 years...trust me on this one--*it was a well done slick maneuver*...and they were ALL big-time democrats...ALL...

*I shall send a donation to starving children to make up for this final bit of off-topic miscreance...*

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## ljbab728

> My Mom was a realtor in Norman for 35 years...trust me on this one--*it was a well done slick maneuver*...and they were ALL big-time democrats...ALL...
> 
> *I shall send a donation to starving children to make up for this final bit of off-topic miscreance...*


If you want to send me a donation, I'll forgive another off-topic, jmark.  LOL

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## jmarkross

> If you want to send me a donation, I'll forgive another off-topic, jmark.  LOL


You are already *quite well-off*...but perhaps a *few extra shekels for kids who need food*...which is where we all should send the extra cash we might have...*you can't take it with you...*

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