# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Norman >  Crest coming to Norman

## zuluwarrior0760

Sat near Bruce Harroz at lunch today and heard him say that they were getting ready to close on land at I35 and Robinson very close to where Mathis Brothers
is locating a store.

He mentioned that Mathis Brothers would not have much furniture,
mostly mattresses.  He said it would be pretty much like the 104th & May
Fresh Market.

He mentioned that they could have purchased land at Tecumseh Rd. but
that it would have been 3 miles off the highway and that they
didn't want that.

Apologies if this is old news.

----------


## mcca7596

I sure haven't heard of it. Thanks for the info.

The grocery scene really is popping in the metro now with Whole Foods, Sunflower Market, and a new organic Buy-For-Less concept coming to Edmond in addition to this news about Crest. All of these, as well as Target, are such a breath of fresh air compared to Wal-Mart.

We are in the breadbasket of the country; we deserve and should demand better grocery stores, and it appears the tide is finally shifting.

----------


## zuluwarrior0760

Yes,
Something I thought was funny that he said was when
someone asked him:
So you're probably not really concerned about Whole Foods are you??

His response was:

Anyone in the grocery business takes "something" away........it's just
a question of how much, but I'm concerned about all of them,
even the fruit stand on the side of the road..........

Mildly amusing, but very shrewd........

----------


## BG918

He may have to worry about Whole Foods in the future.  I could definitely see a WF in Norman as the second metro location.

----------


## Thunder

Yes, it has been in the planning for a while and also discussed in another thread.  But... Crest HQ treats their employees horribly than Walmart does.

----------


## venture

I guess it comes down to what their prices are like compared to Homeland and such and their coupon policy (doubling?). Yes I'm one of those...but I also enjoy taking a bill from $300 down to under $100. :-)

----------


## okcfollower

With Target & Homeland on this same corner, if I'm thinking right. There will be lots of competition for groceries all at this intersection! I wish something nicer would open on the east side of town. Around the 12th/Classen Area

----------


## ou48A

Norman needs a major grocery store somewhere west of the I-35 and Tecumseh area.

----------


## MikeLucky

> With Target & Homeland on this same corner, if I'm thinking right. There will be lots of competition for groceries all at this intersection! I wish something nicer would open on the east side of town. Around the 12th/Classen Area


Yeah, based on what I've heard, the Perfect Swing at Hwy 9 intersection with 77/Classen/12th/Sooner will become a Wal-Mart eventually... plus a Lowe's to be built nearby as well.  That may be why no other grocery store is going up in the area yet.

----------


## okcfollower

When do those projects expect to begin?

----------


## venture

> Yeah, based on what I've heard, the Perfect Swing at Hwy 9 intersection with 77/Classen/12th/Sooner will become a Wal-Mart eventually... plus a Lowe's to be built nearby as well.  That may be why no other grocery store is going up in the area yet.


Is Perfect Swing closed completely now? Drove by the other day and it didn't look open anymore.

We definitely need someone new on this side of town besides Walmart and Homeland, especially with how much is being built out on this side of town.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States   Plenty of options out there...if only someone would finally come here that isn't in the area yet.

----------


## okcfollower

The May storms last year about took out Perfect Swing, surprised they didnt just close it down then

----------


## rcjunkie

> Yeah, based on what I've heard, the Perfect Swing at Hwy 9 intersection with 77/Classen/12th/Sooner will become a Wal-Mart eventually... plus a Lowe's to be built nearby as well.  That may be why no other grocery store is going up in the area yet.


You are correct, coming soon to the Hwy 9 & Hwy 77 area, Walmart Super Center and Lowe's, the present Walmart on 12th street NE will close, may re-open as a Sam's.

----------


## rcjunkie

> The May storms last year about took out Perfect Swing, surprised they didnt just close it down then


Perfect has three strikes against it, the storms, opening of Andy Alligators, and an out-of-state owner.

----------


## okcfollower

Why would they close the 12th street store! Norman should be able to support 3 stores. By closing the 12th will leave that area of town with nothing!

----------


## rcjunkie

> Why would they close the 12th street store! Norman should be able to support 3 stores. By closing the 12th will leave that area of town with nothing!


It's less than two miles away, shouldn't be a problem, and Norman is not large enough to handle three stores.

----------


## venture

> Why would they close the 12th street store! Norman should be able to support 3 stores. By closing the 12th will leave that area of town with nothing!


As others have said, it isn't that far away. Honestly, it would be a blessing to have it moved to an area that can handle the traffic. I only hope that they upgrade Hwy 9 from 77 to 24th SE to make it 4 lanes instead of the current 2. For people that live north of Robinson would just have to drive south a bit more. Similar to those of us who are south of Lindsey currently. The hope at least though...that the location is as nice (or much nicer) than the west side Walmart with increased selection and a better layout.

I do question the ability to have a 2nd Sam's Club in Norman though, that seems a bit overkill. That area though would need something big to go in to keep the area from being hurt too much. All the businesses in the strip mall in that area would be hurt without the traffic from Walmart.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> It's less than two miles away, shouldn't be a problem, and Norman is not large enough to handle three stores.


actually its 3.5 miles aways ..  and over 5 miles from the new neighborhoods on the northeast side of norman ..

----------


## okcfollower

Any idea exactly where these will be built? I didnt see any land in their names around that area?

----------


## OUman

Any official confirmation on the 12 Ave. Wal-Mart Supercenter closing? Not that it matters to me anyway, I don't go there much, the quality of the produce is very bad, and there is a very clear difference in not only the quality. but also the choices between the east and west side Wal-Marts.

Homeland can be expensive, but you get what you pay for. The Homeland on the east side (Alameda) has some of the best produce I've seen in Norman (other than the S-Target). And now we also have the Farm Market, but that's of course seasonal.

----------


## jn1780

I wonder how long that supercenter would remain vacant if Walmart doesn't turn it into a Sam's Club.

----------


## Soonerman

I would think Norman would be able to support 3 Supercenters.

----------


## venture

> I wonder how long that supercenter would remain vacant if Walmart doesn't turn it into a Sam's Club.


Probably for awhile and the rest of the area would be hurt by it.




> I would think Norman would be able to support 3 Supercenters.


Norman could, but the locations would have to change. If they do a location on Hwy 9, that also supports people in Noble. They could possibly put a new one in North central Norman then say up on Rock Creek or Tecumseh. 




> actually its 3.5 miles aways ..  and over 5 miles from the new neighborhoods on the northeast side of norman ..


Don't forget all the new neighborhoods on the southeast side of Norman as well...so it just depends. As I said earlier, the support from Noble as well is also a plus for moving it to Hwy 9.

----------


## okcfollower

the distance from hwy 9 to the current 12th...is about equal to the distance between the 35 and 12th. So I think all three could be supported. Like verture79 said, the Noble/South Norman Population will support it. But I agree, the if the 12th street is goign to stay open, it either would need to expand/renovate or do something, It would be the lowest end of the stores causing customers to go to another one juts because of the quality

----------


## jn1780

> I would think Norman would be able to support 3 Supercenters.


It would be 3 supercenters and a Super Target on the north side side.

----------


## kevinpate

> It would be 3 supercenters and a Super Target on the north side side.


Plus a Sam's, a couple of Wright's, a few Homeland's, a few local one-off's, potentially a Crest, and more.
Not seeing it as a problem myself, but some of the local based grocers might be a tad nervous overall.

----------


## Thunder

> Plus a Sam's, a couple of Wright's, a few Homeland's, a few local one-off's, potentially a Crest, and more.
> Not seeing it as a problem myself, but some of the local based grocers might be a tad nervous overall.


Years ago, Walmart closed their store in Checotah and reopened behind the lot with full grocery.  Recently my trip to there this past New Year's, I saw how the two small, local grocery stores was still open.  All 3 full grocery stores in a small Checotah town.

Norman can do it.

----------


## rcjunkie

> Any idea exactly where these will be built? I didnt see any land in their names around that area?


Perfect Swing property and vacant land to the East

----------


## rcjunkie

> I wonder how long that supercenter would remain vacant if Walmart doesn't turn it into a Sam's Club.


Not long, the Norman Public Schools are interested in this property if it's available

----------


## okcfollower

Anytime line on this happening?

----------


## rcjunkie

> Anytime line on this happening?


I've been told dirt work should start by mid to late summer

----------


## venture

> I've been told dirt work should start by mid to late summer


That'll be nice. Drove down the service road thing there that goes in front of Perfect Swing and had the thought how that field at 24th and Hwy 9 has remained undeveloped. Not that I am against farm land in urban areas...I kinda enjoy the lack of dense development, but the intersection just seems to be one of a lot of potential. 

So I'm going to assume Lowe's will go on the corner along 24th and Walmart will be where Perfect Swing is now? Then of course the associated pad sites for various fast food/small retail stores.

----------


## okcfollower

This could really improve the south side of norman. Hopefully bring in other stores and fast food along highway 9.

----------


## brian

great, a new walmart...

----------


## BG918

> Not long, the Norman Public Schools are interested in this property if it's available


To build a new high school?  I've heard for the past few years that Norman is interested in doing that, but IMO they need to just make Norman High bigger.

----------


## OUman

> To build a new high school?  I've heard for the past few years that Norman is interested in doing that, but IMO they need to just make Norman High bigger.


They are. In the area where the pre-fabricated classrooms were lcoated, there is a new two-story addition being built, you can see part of it from Main Street. Other than that though, Norman High does not have any more space to add to the main building.

----------


## JimTrabersColostomyBag

I believe the third high school is planned for the area south of Irving Middle School

----------


## kevinpate

Neither High or North are blessed with abundant expansion space.  Another high school and for that matter another middle school are only a matter of when.  A new elementary is already named and slated for construction.  It's not the only one that will need to be constructed in the near future.  Indeed, via the use of modulars, we likely have enough classrooms for another facility or two already.  There appear to be many more now at the elementary level than when my children were young, and my youngest only left elementary in '04.

----------


## rcjunkie

> I believe the third high school is planned for the area south of Irving Middle School


The plan is to build a new middle school to replace Irving, then convert old Irving into the third high school.

----------


## remy11

> great, a new walmart...


my thoughts exactly.

----------


## venture

> my thoughts exactly.


Why would it be a big deal if it REPLACES the existing one with a much needed upgraded facility that would be comparable or better to the west side Walmart? To me it is a long time coming to finally start to balance the east and west sides of town out. Of course I'm referring to the additional development that will follow Lowes and Walmart.

----------


## Bunty

> I would think Norman would be able to support 3 Supercenters.


Stillwater apparently supports 2 Wal-Mart supercenters.  So Norman can easily do 3.

----------


## rcjunkie

> Stillwater apparently supports 2 Wal-Mart supercenters.  So Norman can easily do 3.


The population differance between Stillwater and Norman is not the big (7000), Norman can not support 3 Walmart Super Centers

----------


## okcfollower

> The population differance between Stillwater and Norman is not the big (7000), Norman can not support 3 Walmart Super Centers


The population of Norman in 2010 was 110,925
The population of Stillwater in 2010 was 	45,688

We can support 3

----------


## BG918

A Wal-Mart neighborhood market would be nice too.  I hope someday the Valu Foods at 12th & Lindsey is turned into one, and that whole shopping center gets a much-needed facelift.

----------


## dmoor82

> The population differance between Stillwater and Norman is not the big (7000), Norman can not support 3 Walmart Super Centers


Whaaaaa......7k well Stillwater is booming!LOL

----------


## Soonerman

> The population of Norman in 2010 was 110,925
> The population of Stillwater in 2010 was 	45,688
> 
> We can support 3


Hey look at Wichita Falls Texas they have 3 Supercenters and they have 104,000 people. Theres no reason why Norman can't support 3 Wal-Marts.

----------


## venture

> The population of Norman in 2010 was 110,925
> The population of Stillwater in 2010 was 	45,688
> 
> We can support 3


7K...65K...ehhh, just slightly off. LOL

----------


## Dulahey

> I only hope that they upgrade Hwy 9 from 77 to 24th SE to make it 4 lanes instead of the current 2.


SH-9 will be widened to 4 lanes to 36th.  Construction planned to begin 2013.
SH-9 will be widened to 4 lanes to 72nd.  Construction planned to begin 2015.

----------


## venture

> SH-9 will be widened to 4 lanes to 36th.  Construction planned to begin 2013.
> SH-9 will be widened to 4 lanes to 72nd.  Construction planned to begin 2015.


Thanks for the info. I remember them talking about it, but haven't heard anything else. It'll just be nice to be rid of that stupid 3 lanes merging into 1 just before 24th. There should be plenty of room now to add another lane or make the left lane a turn only lane. Though I guess that would confuse people too much.

----------


## EricGarcia

To add to the debate of Walmart - Broken Arrow supports three walmart supercenters and a neighborhood market, while in close proximity to the coweta and south Tulsa walmarts.

----------


## venture

> To add to the debate of Walmart - Broken Arrow supports three walmart supercenters and a neighborhood market, while in close proximity to the coweta and south Tulsa walmarts.


Yeah...there really isn't any argument that can be substantiated that Norman can't support a 3rd Walmart if the basis of that is population. Of course, someone underestimated the people by over 50% so perhaps people don't really understand that it is is Oklahoma's third largest city of well over 100,000 people.

----------


## okcfollower

Any update on any of these stores starting to build?

----------


## Ettie

The area at the corner of SE 24th and HWY 9 appears to have a crop of some sort on it.  If that means anything about the "dirt work to start this summer" claim.  I hope not, as I really want a south side walmart.

----------


## okcfollower

I dont see any property in their name around there yet. Maybe this is normal

----------


## rcjunkie

I'm told an announcement could be coming within the next 3--4 weeks, Walmart and Lowe's with several out parcels (probably fast food). It has been delayed because the Perfect Swing Property recently became available. Crest is looking at property in UNP.

----------


## okcfollower

I hope so! How long does the usual new Walmart construction take?

----------


## Bunty

> To add to the debate of Walmart - Broken Arrow supports three walmart supercenters and a neighborhood market, while in close proximity to the coweta and south Tulsa walmarts.


It surely reflects that Broken Arrow has more families with children than Norman does.  Remember, unlike Broken Arrow, Norman has up to 30,000 college students.

----------


## NickFiggins

> It surely reflects that Broken Arrow has more families with children than Norman does.  Remember, unlike Broken Arrow, Norman has up to 30,000 college students.


 So college students don't spend money at retail establishments. Out of those 30,000 students only 4,000 have meal plans and interestingly enough just over the city limits of BA and Tulsa a Super Target is located at 71st and Garrett. With communities such as Nobel and points south there would be no problem supporting another WalMart that close.

----------


## okcfollower

> So college students don't spend money at retail establishments. Out of those 30,000 students only 4,000 have meal plans and interestingly enough just over the city limits of BA and Tulsa a Super Target is located at 71st and Garrett. With communities such as Nobel and points south there would be no problem supporting another WalMart that close.


I would say having 30,000 students, which I dont think are included in the 110k population since they are temporary residents, would help retail as most of them have a credit card in their parents name...so they feel the need to go on shopping sprees whenever

----------


## ljbab728

> I would say having 30,000 students, which I dont think are included in the 110k population since they are temporary residents, would help retail as most of them have a credit card in their parents name...so they feel the need to go on shopping sprees whenever


College students living away from home receive their own census questionaires.  Who knows how many fill them out or if they get double counted as living at home.  They are supposed to be counted as living in their city of residence even if it's temporary.

http://2010.census.gov/campus/

----------


## okcfollower

Any new news on the new Crest or Walmart?

----------


## venture

Haven't heard a peep down here.

----------


## Bunty

> So college students don't spend money at retail establishments. Out of those 30,000 students only 4,000 have meal plans and interestingly enough just over the city limits of BA and Tulsa a Super Target is located at 71st and Garrett. With communities such as Nobel and points south there would be no problem supporting another WalMart that close.


Let's see how OU students apparently bring the income down in Norman and compared to Broken Arrow:

In Broken Arrow the estimated median household income in 2009 was $64,534.  In Norman only $45,143.
In Broken Arrow the per capita income in 2009 was $27,238.  In Norman only $25,244.

In Broken Arrow estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $152,600.  In Norman: $145,700.  This implies that homes may be bigger in Broken Arrow, further implying more household goods are needed from a Wal-Mart or Target.

(Source for figures:  city-data.com)

----------


## mikesimpsons82

> Let's see how OU students apparently bring the income down in Norman and compared to Broken Arrow:
> 
> In Broken Arrow the estimated median household income in 2009 was $64,534.  In Norman only $45,143.
> In Broken Arrow the per capita income in 2009 was $27,238.  In Norman only $25,244.
> 
> In Broken Arrow estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $152,600.  In Norman: $145,700.  This implies that homes may be bigger in Broken Arrow, further implying more household goods are needed from a Wal-Mart or Target.
> 
> (Source for figures:  city-data.com)


The vast majority of students do not count towards this data.

----------


## Bunty

> The vast majority of students do not count towards this data.


Then what can account for the much lower income in Norman, if it can't be OU students?  Is good pay at OU hard to come by?

----------


## ljbab728

> Then what can account for the much lower income in Norman, if it can't be OU students?  Is good pay at OU hard to come by?


Assuming that US Census data is being used, the students are counted.

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1525/cen...-to-count-them

"Where should college students be counted in the 2010 Census -- at their parents' home or their school address? The Census Bureau has a cut-and-dried answer, but this question recurs each decade because census rules and people's preferences are not always in sync.

The 2010 Census operates on the idea that people should be counted at their usual address. According to census rules, people should be counted ("enumerated," in census-speak) at a residence if they:

Live or stay at the residence most of the time. 
Stayed there on April 1, 2010 and had no permanent place to live. 
Stay at the residence more time than any other place they might live or stay. 
That means most college students should be counted at their college address, either on campus or off campus. They should be counted at their parents' home only if they live and sleep there most of the year."

----------


## Bunty

The only comeback to the above would be the assumption that a significantly high percentage of OU students were not counted in the census, because they thought the census form was just a load a pure bs and could not be bothered with filling them out.  And this probably also assumes that census workers didn't do much to follow up.

----------


## ljbab728

> The only comeback to the above would be the assumption that a significantly high percentage of OU students were not counted in the census, because they thought the census form was just a load a pure bs and could not be bothered with filling them out.  And this probably also assumes that census workers didn't do much to follow up.


That could be true of any segment of the population.  But I agree that ensuring an accurate count where college students are concerned is iffy.  I was just passing along the official position on how they should be counted.

----------


## Bunty

> I would say having 30,000 students, which I dont think are included in the 110k population since they are temporary residents, would help retail as most of them have a credit card in their parents name...so they feel the need to go on shopping sprees whenever


Where have you been?  College students have been included in a college town's census ever since the year 1950. That was the year when Norman population had skyrocketed from 11,429 in 1940 to 27,006.

----------


## okcfollower

> Where have you been?  College students have been included in a college town's census ever since the year 1950. That was the year when Norman population had skyrocketed from 11,429 in 1940 to 27,006.


I was referring to the fact that I feel like a lot of them are not counted as they dont turn it in. And sorry I havent been around since 1950 to notice the difference. Ive only seen two decades here

----------


## ahlokc

I used to work at PS. Owner basically let everyone go a little while after the May '10 tornado.  Driven by a couple of times the past few months, place needs to be cleared for some new development as it looks like it isn't really doing anything other than getting old. Anyone heard any news about new developments in this area?

----------


## ChargerAg

No kidding.   Is Crest still coming to UNP?    I am starting to think that this is like every other development at that place and Moore has stolen it away.

----------


## rcjunkie

> No kidding.   Is Crest still coming to UNP?    I am starting to think that this is like every other development at that place and Moore has stolen it away.


Yes Crest is still planning on opening a new store at UNP. Have been told they are negotiating a land lease contract and that an announcement should be made very soon.

----------


## BG918

I'd rather see Norman get a Walmart Neighborhood Market on the SE side than another Supercenter.  It's amazing how fast that area is growing especially being so far from 35.  Love what they have planned for Cedar Lane with the sidewalks and bike lanes.

----------


## venture

> I'd rather see Norman get a Walmart Neighborhood Market on the SE side than another Supercenter.  It's amazing how fast that area is growing especially being so far from 35.  Love what they have planned for Cedar Lane with the sidewalks and bike lanes.


I'd rather see a Kroger, Giant Eagle, or other grocery chain in there instead of Walmart.

----------


## decepticobra

i love norman. i hope it continues to grow in population and prosper. norman needs a crest and a half price books location. i have already emailed the latter to recommend a store location. the former acts like greek gods and could care less about customer input, but they do sell some groceries ratherly cheaply.

----------


## kp73120

I drove past the old Perfect Swing the other day and noticed there was some construction on one of the buildings behind the main building.  It looked like an addition to the building and the framework was up.   It made me wonder what was going on.   Anyone know?

----------

