# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Moore >  What Are Your Homeowners Association Dues?

## HamWx

We have a constant battle in our neighborhood with residents who either think our dues are too high and need to be lowered, or too low and that we're not able to get the things done that we need to.
I'm curious about what some of you are paying per year in fees for your neighborhood and how many households your HOA supports.

Twin Lakes near 149th & Sooner is $320.00 per year supporting 89 homes.

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## Oh GAWD the Smell!

320 for Twin Lakes? Lower than I thought it would be. But there's not a lot there to take care of, is there? No community pool or park or anything...

/lives in an addition much like Twin Lakes, but there's no association.
//Everybody's yard/landscaping is immaculate

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## HamWx

You'd be surprised. Even with no pool or common park area, upkeep of the gates, landscape, and streets are an expensive endeavor; the streets being the most costly. We have a 10% increase each year in dues that will be in effect until we get up around the $500 per household mark. 

As for you having no dues and and everything looking great around you, that's just outstanding! Here we have 3-5 homes at any given time that are not up to covenant; generally in the "landscape upkeep" area... Astounds me that people will pay $400k+ for a home and then not maintain it.

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## s00nr1

$85/yr here in Forest Brook but I can probably guess that will be going up at the next annual meeting for the same reasons you mentioned above.

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## 94GTStang

$175 here in Creeks at Wimberly

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## Easy180

$150 in Talavera

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## G.Walker

$200 Rock Creek

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## G.Walker

> We have a constant battle in our neighborhood with residents who either think our dues are too high and need to be lowered, or too low and that we're not able to get the things done that we need to.
> I'm curious about what some of you are paying per year in fees for your neighborhood and how many households your HOA supports.
> 
> Twin Lakes near 149th & Sooner is $320.00 per year supporting 89 homes.


That is kinda high for a new neighborhood, with only 89 homes, and no amenities, just sayin'.

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## u50254082

$100 or $120 here in SW Moore

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## mugofbeer

$210/quarter here in Denver with a neighborhood pool, greenbelt and entrance road upkeep.  Also includes trash pickup.  160 35 year old homes.

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## Oh GAWD the Smell!

> You'd be surprised. Even with no pool or common park area, upkeep of the gates, landscape, and streets are an expensive endeavor; the streets being the most costly. We have a 10% increase each year in dues that will be in effect until we get up around the $500 per household mark. 
> 
> As for you having no dues and and everything looking great around you, that's just outstanding! Here we have 3-5 homes at any given time that are not up to covenant; generally in the "landscape upkeep" area... Astounds me that people will pay $400k+ for a home and then not maintain it.


Yeah,  we looked in Twin Lakes a few times and wondered how some of those folks got away with that lol.

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## bluedogok

> $210/quarter here in Denver with a neighborhood pool, greenbelt and entrance road upkeep.  Also includes trash pickup.  160 35 year old homes.


$420/YR here in between Aurora and Centennial. No pool, just common area and fence along common area maintenance....they also have to pay for the neighborhood nazi letters to go out. We intend to find a some land with no HOA/covenants for our next house, I would rather live in the Wild West than The Truman Show but then that will probably be the house we die in. We probably have 1,000+ homes in ours, house built in 1999.

A co-worker just sold her house in Parker, her dues were $325/mo but they had a bunch of amenities. She got to thinking those dues were making the house hard to sell as it was on the market for a long time but they finally did sell it.

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## Bellaboo

$210 per year in Kingsridge in Yukon.

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## HamWx

Seems like it until you see the cost for street repairs. Insane.
Basically everything east of the easement on Sooner Road is maintained by the Association. Streets, common area landscaping, the gate system, common area lighting/power, etc. Then add in insurance, maintenance contracts, and people being idiots and running over gate equipment and whatever else... $28,800 is hardly ever enough to operate for a year.

Interesting results here in this thread though!

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## HamWx

G. Walker: 
Seems like it until you see the cost for street repairs. Insane.
Basically everything east of the easement on Sooner Road is maintained by the Association. Streets, common area landscaping, the gate system, common area lighting/power, etc. Then add in insurance, maintenance contracts, and people being idiots and running over gate equipment and whatever else... $28,800 is hardly ever enough to operate for a year.

Interesting results here in this thread though!

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## bluedogok

I have seen Arapahoe County crews working on the roads in our neighborhood, so I don't think it is the responsibility of our HOA. That can have a big impact on fees and/or special fees. I know some of the more rural areas of northeast Edmond the roads are HOA maintained and they did a big repaving job there many years ago. A co-worker at Benham lived there and was running their pricing by some of the civil guys in the office.

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## bille

$240 annually iirc for The Falls, ~125 homes.  We don't have to maintain the streets as they belong to the city but the grounds upkeep, landscaping, etc. around the common areas, park, and down 34th all adds up quick.  Actually, just general maintenance fees add up.  Costs of sending out letters, filing leans for those that don't pay their dues (which is way more people than I'd have thought) and just day to day expenses takes a big chunk of our budget, especially with a relatively low number of homes.

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## Mel

$0 here in the slums of Mustang.

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## MikeLucky

From what I understand, if it's a gated community, then it's the community's responsibility to take care of the streets.  I would personally expect any gated neighborhood to have at least double the yearly fees for a non-gated community.

And, by the way, there shouldn't be one single person in Twin Lakes complaining about a measly $320 a year.  If I were in charge those rates would be doubled or MORE.  If you can't afford $53 a month then don't buy a $400,000 house.  That's pathetic.

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## bradh

$200 annually for Camden Place. 75 homes built from 95-97 I believe

Not gated, no amentities other than a small undeveloped block which is kinda a greenbelt?  We are also responsible for a lot of grass along MacArthur (that upkeep is our largest expense).

We've had a surplus the last couple of years, probably going to put most of that money to hydroseed and put down some erosion blanket to help grow grass in areas of the greenbelt where the slight slope has caused some erosion problems.

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## BBatesokc

Curious how many have mandatory dues and how many live in neighborhoods where the dues are optional.

We are now in Arrowhead Hills (Edmond) and its $55/yr and its optional.

Previously we were in the slums of ParkView/Cherry Hill (SE OKC) and I think it was around $40/yr and optional.

I lived in a condo in NW OKC for awhile and we only had I guess 50 units and it was $125-$200/month the whole time I was there and was mandatory because they were always claiming to be making improvements. Of course the dues also covered the exterior of everyone's condo (roof, siding, insurance, etc.).

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## bluedogok

We are determined to find some land without any kind of HOA which is pretty hard to do in the Denver area. The whole neighborhood nazi thing just irritates the crap out of me but then it doesn't bother me if a neighbors blade of grass is 1/4" too tall.

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## Mel

"neighborhood Nazi" I like that. My Dad is the President of one of those dang thangs in South OKC. Don't wanna live like that.

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## BBatesokc

> We are determined to find some land without any kind of HOA which is pretty hard to do in the Denver area. The whole neighborhood nazi thing just irritates the crap out of me but then it doesn't bother me if a neighbors blade of grass is 1/4" too tall.


The two reasons we gave up buying a home in/near downtown (Heritage Hills area) was Nazi like HOA's and value for the money.

To me HOA's are like unions, they definitely started out with good intentions and can do very good things for those who participate - however, with the wrong leadership or agenda and they are counterintuitive and destructive.

Have several friends who live downtown and none has ever said they enjoy how their HOA's are run. That said, they also admit that without a strong one the 'so-so' streets/homes would become neighborhood nightmares with yard parking, high weeds, mismatched paint jobs, cheap car ports, etc.

I don't mind an HOA if its properly run and they limit their enforcement to obvious things like mowing, deteriorating conditions, broke down cars, noise, etc. But don't tell me I can't put nice energy efficient windows on my house or that I need your permission to put a pergola in my backyard.

Our HOA is voluntary and just uses dues to put up very nice street lights and throw a couple of neighborhood events a year and maintain the landscaping at the entrances. They also put out a neighborhood directory, which is handy.

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## Midtowner

$30 and optional.  I live in NW OKC and the neighborhood was built in the mid to late 60s.

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## stick47

People seem to think that many times HOAs are needed to prevent yard parking, tall grass etc when those issues are part of the city code for most municipalities. Our HOA covenants actually has a section stating that you cannot erect an accessory building within so many feet of the property line. 
Duh! I believe you'd find out about that when you took your plan in to get the building permit.

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## BBatesokc

> People seem to think that many times HOAs are needed to prevent yard parking, tall grass etc when those issues are part of the city code for most municipalities. Our HOA covenants actually has a section stating that you cannot erect an accessory building within so many feet of the property line. 
> Duh! I believe you'd find out about that when you took your plan in to get the building permit.


Have you actually ever tried to resolve such issues with City Action? They are a total joke. At least an HOA can invoke fines/assessments and actually take action.

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## stick47

Brian In Mustang the realtors went on a rampage and raised holy hell about cars parked on grass, tall weeds, etc. Tickets were being written left and right after that. (why we moved outside the city limits)

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## MikeLucky

> Brian In Mustang the realtors went on a rampage and raised holy hell about cars parked on grass, tall weeds, etc. Tickets were being written left and right after that. (why we moved outside the city limits)


Lol... so you WANT to park cars in your unkempt yard????  You think that would be a GOOD THING???  If that's the case, then a neighborhood with an HOA isn't for you, for sure.

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## stick47

Not really. You're missing the point. I AM in an HOA and agreed to abide with the covenants therein. I am not agreeable to a psuedo/civic group that pushes an agenda which coincidentally enhances their bottom line.
Besides the push to police the neighborhoods the same organization also campaigned heavily for the bond issue to build a $3.5 million dollar kids sports complex in Mustang. Thankfully it was voted down. The citizens later approved a bond for one costing about $1.5 mil.

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## Martin

> In Mustang the realtors went on a rampage and raised holy hell about cars parked on grass, tall weeds, etc. Tickets were being written left and right after that.

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## MikeLucky

> Not really. You're missing the point. I AM in an HOA and agreed to abide with the covenants therein. I am not agreeable to a psuedo/civic group that pushes an agenda which coincidentally *enhances their bottom line*.
> Besides the push to police the neighborhoods the same organization also campaigned heavily for the bond issue to build a $3.5 million dollar kids sports complex in Mustang. Thankfully it was voted down. The citizens later approved a bond for one costing about $1.5 mil.


LOL... yeah, there's a WHOLE LOT of HOA's out there just rolling around in discretionary funds...  They throw parties and have cheese and cracker events all the time just so they can PUSH THEIR AGENDA.  I can't believe they would work SO HARD to not only beautify your neighborhood but also work for things that could make the community a better place to raise kids....  the horror...

I'm sorry dude, but it really looks like YOU are the one missing the point here... but hey... to each his own I guess.

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## stick47

I think others opinions are worth hearing. If I don't agree I don't get all worked up over it. Peace.

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## tomokc

My experience with HOA boards (I currently belong to one and am reviewing the financials, and previously served on the board in another association) is that the most vocal complainers are the least involved or educated. They may not understand business, understand the *cost* of doing business, be able to read a P&L, or understand tight margins. 

Ensure that they have a current P&L (if not then furnish them with one), ask them to read it, and then send you questions via email, explaining that you'll be glad to put everything in writing for them to reference at any time. If they still disagree with how things are doing, they can always seek a position on the board.

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## Jeepnokc

The dues are 500 yr and mandatory in Olde Tuscany.  It is gated with approx. 26 homes.  I am also on the HOA board.  As a director, the board has a fiduciary duty to the members to be good stewards.  The HOA should be carrying insurance for the hoa property as well as paying taxes on it. (Remember the problem in Edmond where someone bought the HOA driveway at tax sale and held the condo owners hostage to buy it back).  If there are street lights and gates, they must be maintained which costs money.  If there is a gate, then usually will have telephone line attached to it.  The common areas must be maintained as far as landscaping and mowing if the members aren't doing it.  A good HOA will be looking long term and socking money away for big ticket items down the road like road replacement so owners 10-15 yrs down the road don't get hit with a 5-10 k assessment to replace road. A financially strong HOA is also a good selling point when reselling.

I do agree that the ones that don't participate or show up at the meetings are the biggest complainers.  The smartest thing we did was getting rid of the HOA paid manager so the complaints have to be made to one of the officers who are all neighbors. (also saved us about 3000/yr)

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## bille

HOA dues are mandatory at The Falls as well.  With common areas (we have a retention pond in the middle of the neighborhood and a playground), entrance with the water falls, sprinkler system, street lights, cost of mowing/landscaping, etc. there's no way we'd survive without one....well, at least not legally or aesthetically pleasing anyway.

As far as the HOA pushing any agenda to make money, lol, I can promise that isn't happening here.  I too sat on the board for a while and what I can tell you, which seems completely illegal to me, is the lack of laws governing what a developer can do in terms of debt incurred to the HOA.  To clarify, when the developer was finally done dealing with the HOA on his own and was ready to turn it over, he turned it over to us with a significant deficit and nearly 10k in unpaid dues going back over 4 years (which btw, you can't collect on anything over 180 days old unless you've filed a lean on the property within that 180 days).  So, come Aug/Sep of that year we were forced to do a 'special assessment' and collect an additional $100 from everybody to cover operating costs until dues started coming in the next year and let me tell you, that ish was not fun at all, people were pissed!  Of course those like myself that were at all the meetings saw this coming, it was those that never go to the meetings that barked the loudest.  We're far better off some 3+ years later but it was tight for a couple of years.

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## BBatesokc

> Brian In Mustang the realtors went on a rampage and raised holy hell about cars parked on grass, tall weeds, etc. Tickets were being written left and right after that. (why we moved outside the city limits)


Problem in OKC is that they give you warning after warning before they ever do anything. A strong HOA considers the bylaws to be your warning. Also, we had a neighbor that realized as long as he made 'an attempt' to mow his yard he would not be cited. So, literally, he'd mow one strip and stop and let the rest grow. City refused to do anything.

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## bradh

For HOA's that have playgrounds (not pools) or other things like soccer or basketball goals, what insurance do you carry in case of injury in common areas?  I'm trying to concince my board to install one soccer goal in one of our green spaces.

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## bluedogok

> LOL... yeah, there's a WHOLE LOT of HOA's out there just rolling around in discretionary funds...  They throw parties and have cheese and cracker events all the time just so they can PUSH THEIR AGENDA.  I can't believe they would work SO HARD to not only beautify your neighborhood but also work for things that could make the community a better place to raise kids....  the horror...
> 
> I'm sorry dude, but it really looks like YOU are the one missing the point here... but hey... to each his own I guess.


I think there may be a select few who have healthy reserves (like my co-workers ex-house in Parker since they were $320 a month) but probably 99% of them barely make enough to keep with with what they are contracted to do and maintenance items that pop up unexpectedly.

I just don't like them, that is why we are looking for acreage land so we can have room to put build the style of house we want and maybe put a car barn on it (not really a barn, more a large garage) and not have neighbors right on top of us. In most of those you aren't mowing all the property anyway. I still have yet to understand why people want to live in those neighborhoods where all the houses are the same style and color, it's just creepy to me. There are plenty of those around here, we just prefer a little bit of diversity in styles.

I know in some of the Foothills areas the landscape covenants are in conflict with the fire mitigation programs for defensible space around structures. For the most part those HOA's have been slow to respond to the real issues out there and instead focus on the aesthetic issues at the expense for their residents. I know that is a different issue than many face in OKC but there are those semi-rural areas in north and east sides of OKC with dense tree cover.

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## TAlan CB

I find this all very interesting, it was one of my shocks when looking at property in Raleigh NC, and later N. Atlanta area.  I was astonished at how nice all the neighborhoods looked in Raleigh - heck, the slums looked better than most middle income neighborhoods in OKC, Moore, Mid-Del Areas.  They were all landscaped like gardens, the entry to any neighborhood was a garden display, outside the community fences to the main streets everything was mowed and trim and perfect.  Needless to say, there were no areas that were real bad and housing values kept up even in older communities 'inside the belt line'.  Many neighborhoods had swimming pools, some tennis courts, community parks - few had nothing.  HOA fees ranged from $50-$200 per month and we just figured in as part of the house loan.  In many of these neighborhoods, the front yards were all maintained (mowed and trimmed) by the yard companies employed by the HOA.  North of Atlanta (Marietta, Sandy Springs, Roswell) is similar, but not as strict.  Most HOA's are lower - not all, and not as universal as Raleigh - and it really shows.  Though still extensive compared to what is seen in OKC metro, it is not as costly as Raleigh.  Every time I return it really stands out how 'unkept' the best parts of OKC metro seem to these eastern cities.  I also see how it brings down the value of older neighborhoods in OKC - after 20 years people just move out to newer communities on the fringe.  It's sad when my HOA gardeners take better care of my neighborhood than the Myriad Garden takes care of its grounds and gardens - but it is representative of a lack of investment on up-keep.

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## MWCGuy

I understand the purpose of HOA's but, I will choose to find a neighborhood without one when we start house shopping next fall. I am the type that will properly maintain my home and keep it looking attractive to the style of the neighborhood. You won't find cars on my lawn or ten foot high grass. However, I do want the ability to add reasonable accessories (shed, pool, patio, storm shelter)  to my home and decorate for holidays without some busybody coming along and saying "No you can't do that because the neighborhood has to look cookie cutter like theirs." 

I might consider an HOA if the legislature muzzles them to where they cannot sell your home out from under you and have due process to address any claims. From what I understand they can hit you with a heavy fine and take your home right ouf from under you.

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## HamWx

HOA's can file a lien against your property if you are not in compliance with the covenants and amass a bill the HOA deems large enough to pursue. Here in Twin Lakes, we file liens at the $1000 threshold. This means the property owner has either not paid dues in three years and/or has a major issue with their property that has collected an assessment. A lien on the property does not mean we can take someone's house, as was suggested above. It means we are one of the first in line to collect back dues & assessments from the sale of the home at closing. 

I would like to note that assessments are are not seen as a source of revenue, at least in our HOA, and we never budget based on anything above and beyond a 90% participation in the required annual dues. Assessments are solely for the purpose of motivating those who are not keeping up with property that is visible from the street. Residents have a 30-day notice of non-compliance, then an assessment for each day the property is out of covenant. There is really no excuse for letting it get this far. $400k+ homes that people refuse or cannot afford to keep up with is ridiculous.

For those who are against HOA's, stating they keep their property tidy and see no reason for governance, here's the problem... Yes, you may be the best neighbor in the addition, but your property value / ability to sell is still at the mercy of those around you. Visual appeal is what most infractions are based upon but sometimes it can be a neighbor wanting to install a crazy-colored shingle on their roof, or moving a 40' RV into their driveway; or worse, someone living in said RV. When it comes time to sell, you don't want to be the home next to the overgrown lawn and hot pink roof.

$320 is low for our addition. I'd like to see $500 or more. We have "Methvin roads" which means they were built very thin and are now crumbling. We need all the funding we can get. Wouldn't mind having a nest-egg either. Look at the Olde Stonebridge and the amount of money they will be spending in the foreseeable future on cleaning up common area tornado damage. Hope they had some back-up funds.

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## SoonerDave

There's an area near my neck of the woods that has a two-tier dues system. For lots that front the man-made lake in the area, dues are higher (don't know the amount) and are vigorously enforced - have already heard of one foreclosure action on a home for non-payment. For all the other homes in the area, dues are voluntary. There is no common area such as a club house, pool, basketball court, things of that nature.

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