# OKCpedia > General Real Estate Topics >  Village Verde 480 acre eco-development?

## metro

*Eco-friendly development in the works*
Journal Record
By Brianna Bailey


OKLAHOMA CITY  A 480-acre mixed-use development planned for the area around Northwest Expressway just off the new section of the Kilpatrick Turnpike will include numerous eco-friendly elements and walking trails.

Renderings for the new Village Verde development show clusters of houses ringing parks with natural streams.

About 20 percent of the new development will be common areas dotted with trees, said Mike Nevard, who is developing Village Verde along with his father, Don Nevard, and homebuilder OA Garr. Kelly Parker, a national sustainability expert and chief executive of the Oklahoma City-based Guaranteed Watt Saver, is also a part of the development team.

When we started this project, it was going to be built on green design uses, Mike Nevard said. We dont have too many projects in Oklahoma City where you can actually walk out the door and go somewhere very close to get basic amenities.

Village Verde will include shops that will be close enough for residents to walk or bike to, thanks to a system of walking trails.

The developers hope to attract a grocery and neighborhood banking center to the planned commercial development.

The development will preserve a few natural streams that are on the land, and also create new wetland areas for wildlife, Mike Nevard said.

The Oklahoma City Council approved zoning changes for the Village Verde development to move ahead last week.

The development will be built in several phases, beginning with some single-family homes within the next three to four months.

Retail space along Northwest Expressway that is part of the planned development will become a gateway to the northwest corridor of the city, developers for Village Verde said.

The large-scale new development will include several different types of housing.

Plans for Village Verde also include about 950 single-family homes, about 100 townhomes, and 25 live-and-work units that will have commercial space on the ground floor and loftlike dwellings on the upper level.

Most people think of a subdivision as all houses of the same type, Garr said. But this development will have live and work units to smaller homes to increasingly larger homes, all connected so you can walk from any home to the village center or ride your bicycle or golf cart, all without getting on the street.

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## Kerry

I am a little confused about the term 'mixed-use' as used in the article.  If it is 480 acres but still has land-uses grouped by activity, that ISN'T mixed-use.  That is no more mixed-use than calling any town mixed-use.  Mixed-use is having housing built over retail and offices: not housing goes over here, and retail over there, and office on that space there.  I wish people would start using terms correctly instead of using them as buzz-words.

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## okclee

This sounds like a very good suburban project, Okc needs more of these. Do we have any plans or renderings?

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## dedndcrusr

> I am a little confused about the term 'mixed-use' as used in the article.  If it is 480 acres but still has land-uses grouped by activity, that ISN'T mixed-use.  That is no more mixed-use than calling any town mixed-use.  Mixed-use is having housing built over retail and offices: not housing goes over here, and retail over there, and office on that space there.  I wish people would start using terms correctly instead of using them as buzz-words.


As far as a single building is concerned, "mixed use" wouldn't apply, but for the entire housing development it might. It definitely sounds like it will have more going on than most new sub divisions currently being built. It's good to see things like this to break up the "this new neighborhood is completely walled off from that new neighborhood" mentality that seems to be prevalent around the outskirts of Okc.

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## okclee

This is a very refreshing development for Okc, and even more so in today's real estate market. If this is successful, and I hope it is, it could have a good impact on all developers around the Okc metro.

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## metro

I'm trying to get the renderings, I couldn't find a website anywhere. I'll post if I get the renderings or hopefully someone will beat me to it.

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## circuitboard

Correct me if I am wrong, but is this the area way out on northwest express that is already have problems getting tenants to fill vacant 80's cookie cutter shopping centers? I know one specifically where all american fitness is or was, that is like a vacant wasteland.

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## dedndcrusr

The article mentioned that it would be near NW Expressway and Kilpatrick, so I'm guessing it's going to be somewhere between the turnpike and Surrey Hills. Lots of land out there.

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## Kerry

> As far as a single building is concerned, "mixed use" wouldn't apply, but for the entire housing development it might. It definitely sounds like it will have more going on than most new sub divisions currently being built. It's good to see things like this to break up the "this new neighborhood is completely walled off from that new neighborhood" mentality that seems to be prevalent around the outskirts of Okc.


I could pick any 480 acres space of land in OKC and voila - mixed-use.  Does that mean OKC is a model of mixed-use design?  Hardly.  Piedmont = mixed-use, Moore = mixed-use, Warr Acres = mixed-use, Yukon = mixed-use.

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## dedndcrusr

> I could pick any 480 acres space of land in OKC and voila - mixed-use.  Does that mean OKC is a model of mixed-use design?  Hardly.  Piedmont = mixed-use, Moore = mixed-use, Warr Acres = mixed-use, Yukon = mixed-use.


I definitely see your point. I was just getting at how most new housing developments are housing only, with a car trip out onto a major road being the only way to get to anything of importance. And how one gated community is barricaded from the next, adding to the feeling of disconnect. This seems to be a more open plan, much like the older sections of OKC.

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## Kerry

> I definitely see your point. I was just getting at how most new housing developments are housing only, with a car trip out onto a major road being the only way to get to anything of importance. And how one gated community is barricaded from the next, adding to the feeling of disconnect. This seems to be a more open plan, much like the older sections of OKC.


This is definately a step in the right direction but I don't like the term 'mixed-use' being applied.  This is just a planned unit development.  It has all the zoning and segregation of activity you would find in any town.

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## krisb

Renderings are included in a PDF on the City Council agenda from last week...okc.gov.

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## metro

Can you point me to the correct PDF krisb, I'd be happy to extract the renderings and post.

http://okc.gov/AgendaPub/meeting.asp...=0&docid=26788

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## Martin

^
look for: "(pud-1418) 11401 nw expressway from aa agricultu"

-M

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## metro

Site layout starts about page 44:

http://okc.gov/AgendaPub/cache/2/mbn...0033621369.PDF

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## okclee

Thanks for posting Metro, looks nice and unique to Okc.

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## circuitboard

Pretty interesting, hope it get's built!

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## blangtang

what would be the estimated commute time to downtown okc from there?

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## SkyWestOKC

According to Google Earth 25-30 mins.

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## stlokc

Seems to me that the intersection of NW Expressway and the turnpike could be the next "hot" growth area for NW OKC. I bet that area fills in faster than the turnpike and Council, turnpike and County Line. Better access to existing neighborhoods.

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## bluedogok

> Seems to me that the intersection of NW Expressway and the turnpike could be the next "hot" growth area for NW OKC. I bet that area fills in faster than the turnpike and Council, turnpike and County Line. Better access to existing neighborhoods.


It's not the first development attempted in the general area, I worked on this one about 8 years ago.

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## stlokc

Interesting. I had forgotten about that proposal. It's been a long time since I've been on "outer" NW Expressway, do the big boxes and chain restaurants of Penn and Memorial have a presence west of the lake, by and large? If not, this area seems geographically removed enough from both Quail Springs and the Belle Isle/May Avenue area for them to make sense out there. Sigh. Sprawl. But I do find reason to hope in the plans shown in this thread. Many cities have successful new urbanism type projects in outer suburban areas. "New Town in St. Charles" is a Truman-show (really, Seaside, FL) inspired development in outer St. Louis. Alleys, porches, neighborhood shops, walking trails, lakes, etc. Could work out there. Of course I'd rather see new urbanism in the inner city, but perhaps that's just a dream.

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## Spartan

There are more huge proposals out in this area. There's a big lifestyle center that someone wants to build at Memorial and County Line Rd. My understand is that The Grove when finished (at May and 192nd I think) will be similar to this Village Verde as well.

As for the commute to downtown, I'd say at least an hour honestly. That's waaay out there.

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## metro

Hour?? I drive it all the time my rents live out that way, 30mins max, esp. if you take the turnpike

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## okclee

30 mins tops.

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## metro

Do you have a link to these hoer proposals?

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## Situs

> I am a little confused about the term 'mixed-use' as used in the article.  If it is 480 acres but still has land-uses grouped by activity, that ISN'T mixed-use.  That is no more mixed-use than calling any town mixed-use.  Mixed-use is having housing built over retail and offices: not housing goes over here, and retail over there, and office on that space there.  I wish people would start using terms correctly instead of using them as buzz-words.


The Village Verde plan does have traditional mixed-use spaces, by allowing for live-work spaces within the PUD above the retail in the town center. Additionally, your higher density homes (brownstones/townhomes/multi-units) are incorporated into the commercial area as well.  As someone else mentioned, it is all designed together and not just zoned individually as most OKC projects are.  It is designed to link the uses and to be a new urbanist inspired project.

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## okclee

Situs, thanks for the description.

Keep us updated as to more project details.

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## Kerry

> The Village Verde plan does have traditional mixed-use spaces, by allowing for live-work spaces within the PUD above the retail in the town center. Additionally, your higher density homes (brownstones/townhomes/multi-units) are incorporated into the commercial area as well.  As someone else mentioned, it is all designed together and not just zoned individually as most OKC projects are.  It is designed to link the uses and to be a new urbanist inspired project.


Now that is what I am talking about.  That sounds much better.

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## metro

> The Village Verde plan does have traditional mixed-use spaces, by allowing for live-work spaces within the PUD above the retail in the town center. Additionally, your higher density homes (brownstones/townhomes/multi-units) are incorporated into the commercial area as well.  As someone else mentioned, it is all designed together and not just zoned individually as most OKC projects are.  It is designed to link the uses and to be a new urbanist inspired project.


Sounds good, but I hope the actual designs of the buildings are more new urbanist than the cheesy renderings. I know renderings deviate from actuality, so I'm hoping they will be much different than the typical Dallas style development that plagues this part of the country.

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## onthestrip

So this is way out there at Kilpatrick and NW Expressway and this is somehow a green/eco-development? Not really understanding that. They will also need a lot of luck getting any retail out there.

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## Kerry

> So this is way out there at Kilpatrick and NW Expressway and this is somehow a green/eco-development? Not really understanding that. They will also need a lot of luck getting any retail out there.


This would have been an awesome in-fill project.  Only in OKC are we building high-density mixed use in a rural field and creating suburban open space downtown.  All I can do is shake my head.

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## circuitboard

> This would have been an awesome in-fill project.  Only in OKC are we building high-density mixed use in a rural field and creating suburban open space downtown.  All I can do is shake my head.


You are so right Kerry, I just don't get some of these projects. That area way out there already has vacant shopping centers from the 80's.

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## Midtowner

As if NW Expressway wasn't already ridiculously congested.  Adding these housing units certainly isn't going to help that.

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## LakeEffect

> Sounds good, but I hope the actual designs of the buildings are more new urbanist than the cheesy renderings. I know renderings deviate from actuality, so I'm hoping they will be much different than the typical Dallas style development that plagues this part of the country.


I have to interject here.  New Urbanism is not an architectural design theory.  It is an urban design and transportation philosophy.  New Urbanist communities can be neo-traditional (often called Traditional Neighborhood Design, TND) or they can be modern (or post-modern), etc.  The physical layout and the mixture of uses are what make a New Urbanist community.

As for my personal views, I completely agree that this seems misplaced out in a greenfield.  That's the biggest problem New Urbanism has had; rarely are they infill projects.  From a developer standpoint, land assembly is MUCH easier on the outskirts.  (So, if we're going to see new development, this is what I'd like to see.)  From a city perspective, we'll need to make it easier for developers to make this type of development work on the inside.  That's hopefully a part of our new comprehensive planning process, planokc.

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## Kerry

> From a city perspective, we'll need to make it easier for developers to make this type of development work on the inside.  That's hopefully a part of our new comprehensive planning process, planokc.


If only Oklahoma City had some kind of authority that could over-see a renewal of the urban core AND was capable of effectively assisting with developments of this size.  If only.

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## Midtowner

> If only Oklahoma City had some kind of authority that could over-see a renewal of the urban core AND was capable of effectively assisting with developments of this size.  If only.


For a development of this size, eminent domain would almost certainly be needed.

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## Kerry

> For a development of this size, eminent domain would almost certainly be needed.


Not if current land owners were part of the development team and could profit from the development.  I keep hearing about all the 'speculators' holding land so they can make money, well this is the kind of project that makes money.  Granted it couldn't be 480 acres and still be anywhere near downtown - but you get the idea.

For the record, I am not in favor of eminent domain being used to take land away from one owner to give it to another owner.

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## jdcf

Somewhat related to thread...

When we lived in Piedmont and I commuted to downtown OKC, I often thought that the state should get or plan to get the right of way along Highway 3 such that even the portion of NW Expressway west of County Line or the Kilpatrick could be a limited access road - perhaps as far as Okarche.  This would greatly facilitate traffic and future development.

Honestly, the commute was horrendous.  Piedmont per se is not all that close to the Kilpatrick and as the area continues to develop, it will seem even farther in terms of time.

Any comments about this?  How does something like this become part of a long range plan for future development of Canadian County, Piedmont, the state highway system, the Northwest Passage, etc.

Thanks.

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## metro

> This would have been an awesome in-fill project.  Only in OKC are we building high-density mixed use in a rural field and creating suburban open space downtown.  All I can do is shake my head.


I don't get it (as to why we continue to have this philosophy in the information age) and I don't think our City Leaders get it (as to how to make urban development more desirable). 




> You are so right Kerry, I just don't get some of these projects. That area way out there already has vacant shopping centers from the 80's.


Where in this area are there vacant shopping centers from the 80's? There is nothing out there but a few occupied places, farmland, then Surrey Hills and Piedmont. My parents live out this way and I've never seen any vacant strip centers, other than the dead looking but respectively occupied shopping center by Buy For Less at Council. 




> If only Oklahoma City had some kind of authority that could over-see a renewal of the urban core AND was capable of effectively assisting with developments of this size.  If only.


Indeed. If only the City Manager and Council would exercise some authority and encourage transparency with these folks.

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## Kerry

> Somewhat related to thread...
> 
> When we lived in Piedmont and I commuted to downtown OKC, I often thought that the state should get or plan to get the right of way along Highway 3 such that even the portion of NW Expressway west of County Line or the Kilpatrick could be a limited access road - perhaps as far as Okarche.  This would greatly facilitate traffic and future development.
> 
> Honestly, the commute was horrendous.  Piedmont per se is not all that close to the Kilpatrick and as the area continues to develop, it will seem even farther in terms of time.
> 
> Any comments about this?  How does something like this become part of a long range plan for future development of Canadian County, Piedmont, the state highway system, the Northwest Passage, etc.
> 
> Thanks.


Back in the early '90s there was a plan to make Highway 3 a interstate style freeway.  My sister lived on Skyline Drive just west of Peidmont Road and one of the neighbors was going to lose his barn if the plan went through.  The freeway was going to go all the way to Kingfisher.

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## Spartan

> As if NW Expressway wasn't already ridiculously congested.  Adding these housing units certainly isn't going to help that.


The NW Expressway really isn't that congested, and traffic moves pretty well, even at 5. Does traffic back up at red lights? Yeah, and it should...no point in having a 6-lane highway where there's not a single car around you, that wouldn't be good for business.

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## circuitboard

> I don't get it (as to why we continue to have this philosophy in the information age) and I don't think our City Leaders get it (as to how to make urban development more desirable). 
> 
> 
> 
> Where in this area are there vacant shopping centers from the 80's? There is nothing out there but a few occupied places, farmland, then Surrey Hills and Piedmont. My parents live out this way and I've never seen any vacant strip centers, other than the dead looking but respectively occupied shopping center by Buy For Less at Council. 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. If only the City Manager and Council would exercise some authority and encourage transparency with these folks.


My bad Metro, you are correct, I was referring to the area near buy 4 less, I don't go out there often, I did see some new car dealerships, I just feel like it is really far out, and feels dead out there already. If they can't fill those shopping centers that I am talking about, why would they be able to fill this?

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## metro

I get your point, I don't know if there is an easy answer for that. My guess is because it was poorly designed (but still mostly full, has some service based businesses in it that don't need much signage or parking as they go to their customers, and it also has a call center operation in it that doesn't have signage up. All the new development is out this way towards Piedmont and south of Surrey Hills in quasi-Surrey Hills sub subdivisions if you will. Since it is already spotty development out that way, why not encourage some suburban infill, better than nothing. That said, I'm not happy with the designs based on renderings, but the concept is better than the typical OKC suburban development. Also there is hardly ANY retail development out this way, most people that live out this way and in Piedmont drive to NW Exp. and Council. still a good 10-15 minute drive. Why not capitalize on all the new development out that way if you are a developer? Yukon is also rapidly growing in all directions, mainly north, south and east and is blending in with OKC nearby.

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## okclee

The DOK has an article yesterday in reference to the challenges of Infill development vs suburban developments.

http://newsok.com/infill-development...lick=columnist

One of the challenges is parking. I would like to see parking done away with for new developments in downtown. Why should the city be responsible for making developers require parking?

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## LakeEffect

> The DOK has an article yesterday in reference to the challenges of Infill development vs suburban developments.
> 
> http://newsok.com/infill-development...lick=columnist
> 
> One of the challenges is parking. I would like to see parking done away with for new developments in downtown. Why should the city be responsible for making developers require parking?


Parking is not required in the Downtown zoning areas (DBD, DTD-1 and DTD-2) & Bricktown (BC) and is also about to not be required in Urban Design areas (Asian District, NW 23rd from Broadway to Classen, Plaza District, Capitol Hill and the Paseo).  However, even if it's not required, some developers may choose to not build in these areas because they believe dedicated parking out front/on site is a necessity.

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## semisimple

> When we lived in Piedmont and I commuted to downtown OKC, I often thought that the state should get or plan to get the right of way along Highway 3 such that even the portion of NW Expressway west of County Line or the Kilpatrick could be a limited access road - perhaps as far as Okarche.  This would greatly facilitate traffic and future development.


I always thought synchronized traffic signals would be a good fit for NW Expressway.  It might be a way to make traffic flow much more smoothly without spending a lot of money to upgrade to a freeway.

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## Kerry

> The DOK has an article yesterday in reference to the challenges of Infill development vs suburban developments.
> 
> http://newsok.com/infill-development...lick=columnist
> 
> One of the challenges is parking. I would like to see parking done away with for new developments in downtown. Why should the city be responsible for making developers require parking?


This is such an easy solution it is embarrasing.  No matter where you build you have to provide parking.  My home was built in a vacant field and I have a driveway.  I also have a garage.  Both required money to be built.  The garage has all the same ammenties the inside of my home has; walls, a sink, windows, 2 doors (one of which is 16 feet wide), lights, electrical outlets, a floor, and a roof.  My garage cost just as much to build as my living room did.  Not only that but I have a street in front of my house.  The cost of that street was charged to each homeowner and was included in the purchase price of the home.

Places like the Montgomery, City Place, and Park Harvey need to build their own shared central garage that is only available to their residents.  This isn't rocket science.

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## okclee

....

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## Spartan

> Parking is not required in the Downtown zoning areas (DBD, DTD-1 and DTD-2) & Bricktown (BC) and is also about to not be required in Urban Design areas (Asian District, NW 23rd from Broadway to Classen, Plaza District, Capitol Hill and the Paseo).  However, even if it's not required, some developers may choose to not build in these areas because they believe dedicated parking out front/on site is a necessity.


Parking shouldn't be required anywhere in the city. Without that, required setbacks, and a litany of other requirements we'd probably have more creative suburban development as well.

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## bluedogok

> One of the challenges is parking. I would like to see parking done away with for new developments in downtown. Why should the city be responsible for making developers require parking?





> However, even if it's not required, some developers may choose to not build in these areas because they believe dedicated parking out front/on site is a necessity.


It usually isn't the developers making that call, it is the people doing the financing. We pretty much always have to do more parking than required because the people doing the financing want a higher parking ratio than required by city development codes. 

Just the nature of the focus on suburban development which dominates the market.

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## dwellings okc

Hi there! I think the project is actually a mixed-use in the proper sense of the word, or the closest thing OKC has to it. Their website says there will be live-work spaces in the town center. Does that qualify it?

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## flintysooner

> I have to interject here.  New Urbanism is not an architectural design theory.  It is an urban design and transportation philosophy.  New Urbanist communities can be neo-traditional (often called Traditional Neighborhood Design, TND) or they can be modern (or post-modern), etc.  The physical layout and the mixture of uses are what make a New Urbanist community.
> 
> As for my personal views, I completely agree that this seems misplaced out in a greenfield.  That's the biggest problem New Urbanism has had; rarely are they infill projects.  From a developer standpoint, land assembly is MUCH easier on the outskirts.  (So, if we're going to see new development, this is what I'd like to see.)  From a city perspective, we'll need to make it easier for developers to make this type of development work on the inside.  That's hopefully a part of our new comprehensive planning process, planokc.


Very good points.

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## Snowman

> what would be the estimated commute time to downtown okc from there?


If moving to this region, downtown does not seem like their likely commute.

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## Pete

Building that turnpike -- and before that, Memorial Road -- is the biggest planning mistake in the history of OKC; and that's saying something.

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## Martin

> building that turnpike -- and before that, memorial road -- is the biggest planning mistake in the history of okc;


i can't say i've ever heard anybody express this opinion. why do you think this? -M

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## Pete

Because there was almost nothing out in those areas when both those major thoroughfares were built.  It wasn't the case of trying to solve a traffic problem...  There wasn't one.

The city basically provided tremendous incentive for unbridled sprawl and ever since, the northwest side of town -- which at the time was the equivalent of what is now far north OKC & Edmond -- has gone way, way down hill.

Edmond (not to mention all areas north of Memorial) was not growing much at all at the time they laid down that huge swath of Memorial with a massive gap to allow for the freeway/turnpike.

Even when Quail Springs was opened in the early 80's, it really floundered for quite a while.


Basically, we paid for (or at least facilitated) all this infrastructure in what was nothing but cow pastures.  It's almost entirely responsible for the way the city has grown since.

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## Snowman

I was barely alive at the time so I don't have too much reference, but wasn't memorial road, Lake Hefner parkway and the turnpike land acquisitions done at the height of the oil boom just before it went bust and so might have been plausible to think that they needed a place to expand to if things had continued.

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## metro

And even to this day Memorial Rd. and surrounding areas still have lots of infill needed;  30 years later.

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## stlokc

I realize this is off-topic from Village Verde and I'm sorry, but thinking about Memorial Road infill, I've spent years watching the SE corner of May and Memorial and wondered: with the galloping pace of development north and west of there, why nothing has been done with that marquis parcel. It's a lot of vacant land with huge traffic counts. I would think a nice shopping center or the like would be far better there than 2-3 miles west on the turnpike.

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## bluedogok

Because the people who own think it is worth many times more what the rest of the world think it is worth. That is usually the case when a prime piece of land or building sits undeveloped or vacant for many, many years.

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## Larry OKC

case in point: Bricktown (especially along the Canal)

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## CChandler

I signed up for their email updates and got a reply stating that they should be breaking ground at Village Verde in two months. So it definitely sounds like it's going to happen and I'm excited to see what comes of it after several yrs of development. Sounds like a great option for suburban families who want a more urban lifestyle without being in the city.

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## Kerry

There is nothing urban about Village Verde. Just because the developer calls it 'urban' doesn't make it so.

Look at the site plan on this link and identify the 'urban'.
http://www.gwssi.com/villageverdeokc/master.html

I see shopping centers with parking lots and segregated residential areas.

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## CChandler

> There is nothing urban about Village Verde. Just because the developer calls it 'urban' doesn't make it so.
> 
> Look at the site plan on this link and identify the 'urban'.
> http://www.gwssi.com/villageverdeokc/master.html
> 
> I see shopping centers with parking lots and segregated residential areas.


*Cringe* Urban was definitely the wrong choice of words. It still has a very suburban layout, you are right. From their website, the live/work spaces look really interesting and definitely something the suburbs of Okc haven't seen yet. I really hope the retail along NW Exp has a main street feel to it, vs parking lots out in front. We'll see...but it's definitely one of the first developments of it's kind in Okc so I'm excited to see how it turns out. 

But you're right, the master plans really don't look anything different from what we're used to seeing developers do around here. Something like Portland's Orenco Station would be much better.

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