# OKCpedia > General Real Estate Topics >  Tuscana Lifestyle Center

## mcca7596

I noticed this development does not have its own thread, so I thought I would start one with asking if anyone knows what the current status of it is.

Can it bring in the retailers that University North Park failed to?

On edit, found one that talks about it, sorry. This can be deleted.

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## Dustin

I think it is scaled WAAAYYY down from the original plans..

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## mrktguy29

I live right next to it and its mounds of dirt, a couple of completed streets off of may ave.

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## Spartan

It's unlikely. I just hope Tuscana doesn't become as big a failure as UNP did. But, at least the City of OKC didn't give it a TIF as far as I remember, so that's good. The land is pretty strategically located between the mall and 150th. I hope they don't waste it until their prospects improve again.

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## warreng88

Ind. company to develop NW OKC apartments
By Brianna Bailey
Journal Record
Oklahoma City reporter - Contact 405-278-2847	
Posted: 05:20 PM Friday, April 22, 2011

OKLAHOMA CITY – RCL Development Corp. has sold 15 acres of a 200-plus-acre chunk of land in northwest Oklahoma City that is part of the large-scale Tuscana mixed-use development to an Indiana multifamily real estate company for $1.7 million.

Indianapolis-based Watermark Residential has plans to develop the Watermark at Tuscana apartments at NW 150 Street and N. May Avenue.

The 240-unit apartment complex will consist of seven three-story buildings built out of natural stone and stucco with a northern Italian design in keeping with Tuscana’s theme.

“These are definitely class A properties for our market, a testimony to Oklahoma City’s leadership, the vision our city has had,” said Tim McKay, a broker for Hendricks & Partners. “It shows the way Oklahoma City is viewed around the nation by capital investors.”
McKay negotiated the sale, along with Hendricks & Partners brokers Aaron Hargrove and John Clayton.

The Watermark at Tuscana project is part of the 233-acre Tuscana mixed-use development that RCL announced in 2007, previously called Quail Springs Village. Plans for the $500 million to $800 million Tuscana development include a $500 million to $800 million open-air shopping center, an amphitheater and convention center hotel, apartments, residential lofts and condominiums.

This will be Watermark Residential’s first multifamily housing development in Oklahoma. The company’s portfolio consists of more than $100 million worth of investment real estate across the country, according to its website. Watermark is also in the process of 
developing apartment communities in Alabama and Texas.

Calls to Watermark’s corporate offices in Indianapolis were not immediately returned on Friday. RCL Development President Larry Owsley also could not immediately be reached for comment on Friday.

The development work for Tuscana is being handled by Oklahoma City-based Raptor Properties, led by Roddy Bates. Bates could not immediately be reached for comment.

Plans for Tuscana were unveiled just before the onset of the 2008 financial crisis, which brought lending for such large-scale development projects to a standstill. It appears that development activity is heating up again in the area.

Wisconsin-based developer Continental Properties Company Inc. recently had plans to build a 255-unit apartment complex in the Tuscana area called the Springs at Quail Prairie, but the Oklahoma City Planning Commission voted the project down earlier this month on the grounds it would add too many apartment units to the area.

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## ljbab728

So would the city planning commission approve a 240 unit apartment complex when they turn down a 255 unit complex because it would add too many apartments to the area?  Is 15 less a significant difference?

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## Dustin

This is awesome!  So glad it is still a go!

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## onthestrip

$500-800million development? Lol, now that's funny.

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## okcpulse

Whoa, wait a minute.  The Journal Record is a bit inaccurate.  Based on documents submitted at the last Planning Commission meeting, the council was recommended to not approve the application out of concern from area residents over a landscaping buffer zone that was revised in the rendering.  The denial was recommended so that residents can meet with Continental Properties about the buffer zone.  

But, I could be wrong.  Either way, this development is still a go, and it was the intention of Tuscana's master plan to bring upscale high-density residential to the area so that it woiuld be easier to land the retail needed for the lifestyle center.

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## Double Edge

Bids for construction were due last week so the owner must still be making plans to move forward. Or they are wasting a lot of peoples' time.

Here's a brochure on the company with one page on Tuscana http://www.suzannewesley.com/files/W...nalSpreads.pdf Looks like that's the graphic designer's website. I don't know how recent it is but it mentions 2010 somewhere.

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## jbrown84

I'm not remotely impressed with this Watermark company's projects.  They look just like every other blah suburban apartment complex in that area.  If we really want a top notch national company to build something great, we should go after Archstone.

http://www.archstoneapartments.com/

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## Spartan

Yeah, I didn't see anything in the article that suggests an "urban" or "new-urbanist" design.. what will make this different from the typical sprawl apartment complexes in that area?

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## ljbab728

> Yeah, I didn't see anything in the article that suggests an "urban" or "new-urbanist" design.. what will make this different from the typical sprawl apartment complexes in that area?


Spartan, maybe i'm missing something.  Was something said that indicated that this project would be "urban" or "new-urbanist"?  I haven't seen any dipictions and it may very well be typical suburban apartments but you always seem to jump the gun with criticism.  Something a little urban might be nice but it's not like it's being developed in the Midtown area.  It's in the outer fringe and it's not realistic to expect that every new development that far from downtown will be urban in design.  It's just not going to happen.

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## mcca7596

I think it's just that most lifestyle centers have, as a general rule, tried to incorporate new urbanist ideas into their design. They are open air and did become popular thanks to an interest in moving away from traditional malls.

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## ljbab728

> I think it's just that most lifestyle centers have, as a general rule, tried to incorporate new urbanist ideas into their design. They are open air and did become popular thanks to an interest in moving away from traditional malls.


I was responding to Spartan's comments about the proposed apartments, not the entire lifestyle center.  I've never seen any indication that they have gone against the original concept for the entire project going towards a traditional mall.

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## Spartan

> Spartan, maybe i'm missing something.  Was something said that indicated that this project would be "urban" or "new-urbanist"?  I haven't seen any dipictions and it may very well be typical suburban apartments but you always seem to jump the gun with criticism.  Something a little urban might be nice but it's not like it's being developed in the Midtown area.  It's in the outer fringe and it's not realistic to expect that every new development that far from downtown will be urban in design.  It's just not going to happen.


As mcca suggested, most lifestyle centers do incorporate faux urbanist patterns, so that's why I was asking. Furthermore, there are renderings out there of what this is _supposed_ to be like.




This is what was proposed right after the crash, as I'm sure you recall yourself. Then Owsley has repeatedly said it is still on, but moving at a slower pace, whatever that means. Fast forward to now, it appears that he's going to "move forward at a slower pace" by replacing the project with lower quality retail and housing components that are not integrated at all. So...can you say University North Park? Sad to see that Central Oklahoma is still no closer to ever having a "real" lifestyle center, which might be kind of neat.

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## circuitboard

Construction has started....





Here is a link to the apartments:

http://www.watermark-residential.com...uail-north.php

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## dmoor82

Wow!I thought this thing would never begin!

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## circuitboard

Me 2! I could not believe my eyes....

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## circuitboard

Is thompson thrift local?

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## circuitboard

"Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
240 Planned Units
The Watermark at Quail North multifamily community consists of 240 Class A apartment homes in Oklahoma City, OK. The development's seven buildings include one-, two-, and three-bedroom apartment homes. Its three-story buildings feature a Tuscan-style faade with natural stone and stucco exterior finishes. The community also incorporates an attractive plaza, extensively landscaped courtyards and roundabouts into its design. The community also will include a clubhouse, a resort-style pool and detached garages. Watermark at Quail North features an e-Urban design, a more efficient and cost-effective alternative to traditional apartment designs.
Watermark at Quail North's site consists of 10 acres located near the southeast corner of the intersection of 150th Street and May Avenue. The development is part of the 232-acre Tuscana master planned community and is convenient to the Quail Springs shopping corridor and several major employers. Quail North features an innovative mixed-use design creating an urban environment that is the focal point of the surrounding neighborhoods. Walkable streets and park-like corridors that encourage walking and community interaction connect the "live, work, play" components. Watermark at Quail North benefits from being within a market with strong demographics, a healthy rental trends, access to and visibility from major roads, convenience to major area retailers, convenience to major employers, and excellent schools."

I hope it's good quality.

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## dmoor82

*Watermark - Tuscana Apartments & Clubhouse* 

*Dodge Report #201100443396 v. 18*



Location: *OK (Oklahoma)* See More Like This 
Valuation: *$24,999,999* 
Bid Date: *ASAP* 
*Oklahoma Oklahoma Apartments/Condominiums 1-3 Stories Construction Project*

Project Type:Apartments/Condominiums 1-3 Stories, Social Club Stage:Sub Bidding, Construction Ownership:*Private* See More Like This Type of Work:New Project Number of Buildings:12 Building Frame:Wood Square Footage:271,721 Number of Stories:3 Architect:Listed Contractor:Listed Designer:Not Listed Publish Date:Jun 17, 2011

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## dmoor82

Watermark Residential, an Indianapolis-based apartment developer, has started work on Watermark at Quail North at 2701 Tuscana Blvd., near NW 150 and May Avenue, north of Quail Springs Mall. A groundbreaking ceremony will be at 10 a.m. Thursday. When complete, the Tuscan-style complex will have 240 apartments in three buildings on 10 acres, with a plaza and landscaped courtyards, a clubhouse, pool and detached garages. Homes will be one-, two- and three-bedroom. The project's completion date is May 2012. Leasing will begin in October. Thompson Thrift Construction of Terre Haute, Ind., is the general contractor. The architect is Dallas-based Humphreys & Partners Architects LP.  

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-real-esta...#ixzz1RkV2isaR  and from Watermarks website http://watermark-residential.com/por...th-profile.php

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## Steve

Guys, it's basically a lot of new apartments going into an area that is filled with ... a lot of aging apartments. I wonder if anyone has delved into how Lyrewood Lane started out and how it got to where it is today.

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## jbrown84

That couldn't be more mediocre looking. Yikes.

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## circuitboard

I think it's a great project. Reminds me of Frisco. I likes. It's not urban center, but good for the suburbs.

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## onthestrip

I agree with Steve. This isnt big news. And I certainly wouldnt say that the Tuscana project has finally started. Didnt they just basically sell some land to an out of state apartment developer?

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## huskysooner

I will say that Humphreys and Partners Architects out of Dallas are one of the most respected "apartment" architects in the nation. These guys have won awards for the efficiency of their designs (more usable space per square footage) and a few of their complexes (like the one in the Woodlands, TX) have won major national awards.

http://www.humphreys.com/awards.aspx

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## circuitboard

Thanks huskysooner for that information! They designed The Monterey in Dallas, which one of my good friends lives in. Really nice complex. 

http://www.windsorcommunities.com/ap...allas/monterey

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## Dustin

This is soo sad..  Ohh what could have been.

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## mcca7596

Isn't this supposed to just be phase 1 of a larger project with eventual retail space?

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## dmoor82

> Isn't this supposed to just be phase 1 of a larger project with eventual retail space?


^^Yea but this is OKCTalk and you cant please everyone,every development thread has it's critics!

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## Steve

Didn't the Humphreys group design the Hill in Deep Deuce?

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## circuitboard

> Didn't the Humphreys group design the Hill in Deep Deuce?


No.

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## metro

> Didn't the Humphreys group design the Hill in Deep Deuce?


Nvm.

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## Spartan

> Guys, it's basically a lot of new apartments going into an area that is filled with ... a lot of aging apartments. I wonder if anyone has delved into how Lyrewood Lane started out and how it got to where it is today.


Oh, how dare you insinuate Lyrewood Lane here!! Only Lyrewood Lane can become Lyrewood Lane, dolt!! That is totally not applicable because these are NEW, got it? Must. Sprawl. Must. Build crap.

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## Steve

Just did some archives searching.... Humphreys and Partners did do the original design and development for The Hill. Pretty sure at some point something changed and they're no longer with the project.

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## circuitboard

Construction progress...
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

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## MDot

I drive past this pretty often but never realized it was the Tuscana Lifestyle Center.

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## Steve

It's an apartment complex.

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## mcca7596

So do you know there won't be any retail at all in any phase of this development, Steve?

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## circuitboard

Apartment complexes were in the original plan, so I don't see what is so shocking.... granted more retail and other things were also in the plan....

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## MDot

Who's shocked?

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## Patrick

Look for this not to be on the grand scale that they originally proposed.

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## Jesseda

Its turning out like the upscale UNP planned for norman. UNP planned upscale shopping now consist of kohls, dollar tree, petco, target, academy etc lol

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## onthestrip

Probably because the upscale term gets thrown around way too often. Every new shopping center built in the last decade called themselves upscale. Come to think of it I'm not sure there is an okc shopping center that is truly upscale.

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## Rover

Most urban centers aren't focused on the most upscale stores, but stores appropriate for the neighborhood.  Nationally, these type of developments give a faux small town feel with a mall urban core of 4-10 square blocks of stores, etc. built up to the street.  Parking garages on the peripheral.  Usually one or two mid-rise full service hotels.  A few mid-rise upscale apartment/condo buildings with zero lot line surrounding that, apartments around that, and then single family homes.  This looks to be following that patter.

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## okcpulse

> Look for this not to be on the grand scale that they originally proposed.


Last year I contacted this owners of this development asking if the master plan had changed as far as retail is concerned.  They had assured me that nothing has changed with retail, but they did say the rooftops were coming first as opposed to building everything all at once.  

However, that was in spring of 2010.  Things may have changed.  I can contact them again.

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## circuitboard

I know this development is in the suburbs and its not as exciting as level with its deep deuce location, parking garage and retail. However, this complex is actually turning out quite nice in my opinion. In addition the units look great inside (pics in link below) with nice cabinets with actual decent handles on them, granite, black appliances and hardwood floors. The price is well within reason, they will surely make the older complexes in the are charging almost as much nervous. 



http://www.watermarkatquailnorth.com/

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## mcca7596

Thanks for the update, circuitboard!

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## beshy

There has been some ground leveling on the northeast part of tuscana on 150th, looks like a water reservoir. Any body has any updates. 
The apartment look nice and there seems that there are alot of tennants who moved in already.

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## bchris02

> Probably because the upscale term gets thrown around way too often. Every new shopping center built in the last decade called themselves upscale. Come to think of it I'm not sure there is an okc shopping center that is truly upscale.


For an "upscale" lifestyle center to truly work, there has to be committed upscale retailers BEFORE construction begins.  This wasn't a problem prior to December 2007, but since the recession began, many upscale retailers aren't expanding like they were and many of these projects that were started or planned back then were completed but then leased to much lower quality retailers.  Also due to the recession many grand-scale projects have had to be scaled down.  Shackleford Crossings in Little Rock, Ark comes to mind.  It was a huge ambitious project that was supposed to have Dillard's, Macy's, Belk, as well as traditional mid-upper level mall retailers (think Penn Square) but after the crash in late 2007, it was built but sat empty for years.  Now it has Wal-Mart, Dollar Tree, TJ Maxx, Payless, an at&t store, and a few other low quality retailers.

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## bchris02

There is a lot of dirt turning right now in the site where Tuscana was supposed to be developed.  Most people who follow OKCTalk are aware that it was originally supposed to be a very ambitious Chisholm Creek-like lifestyle center but when the recession of 2008 hit the developer had a massive change of plans and built a standard apartment complex instead, scrapping all of the retail and lifestyle components that were originally supposed to be included.  The lifestyle center was going to be massive but the apartment complex as it sits is pretty small comparatively.  Does anybody know what is currently happening there?  Do the developers have plans for the site beyond the standard complex that has thus far been built?

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## Pete

More apartments.

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## bchris02

Do you know if there any plans for retail or restaurants at all, even if its not on the grand scale that was originally planned?

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## Pete

Not that I'm aware of.

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## Spartan

Tuscana is dead and especially so now that Chisholm and NW 63rd are going to deliver two legit lifestyle centers at once.

It's for the best, too. Chisholm is closer into the city and actually helps fill the gap between OKC and Edmond, while Tuscana would've over-stimulated Memorial's westward sprawl.

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## bchris02

> Tuscana is dead and especially so now that Chisholm and NW 63rd are going to deliver two legit lifestyle centers at once.
> 
> It's for the best, too. Chisholm is closer into the city and actually helps fill the gap between OKC and Edmond, while Tuscana would've over-stimulated Memorial's westward sprawl.


True.

Tuscana would have certainly been the end of Quail Springs Mall also.  I think the mall and Chisholm Creek can co-exist, especially with Von Maur and H&M in the mall.  Chisholm Creek also has turnpike access.  Reading some of the earlier posts about Tuscana a lot of people were concerned about it not being right on Memorial.

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## Plutonic Panda

Lack of highway access????? Seriously!? Who said that? There is literally a medium sized turnpike within 1/4 mile and a future freeway within 2-3 miles West.

Also, if you want a place like what Tuscana would offer, why would you be concerned about highway access in the first place when these kinds of lifestyle centers are generally geared towards less car and more walking?

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## Spartan

Future freeway? 

Um no.

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## OKCDrummer77

> Future freeway? 
> 
> Um no.


I took it as a reference to the extension of the Hefner Parkway, which would be 1.5 miles to the west.

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## Plutonic Panda

> Future freeway? 
> 
> Um no.


Whether you like or not, Hefner parkway is currently being expanded.

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## Plutonic Panda

Pete, are we sure this is completely dead? I went by last night and I'm actually going to go there tonight to double check, but they are building what looks like to be some urban housing right up against the streets. The existing development within Tuscana doesn't appear to be in the development area.


This is the original plan



This is where new construction is taking plan that looks to be in line with original plans



Here is a smaller piece for reference



I'm going to go work out at Golds right now and I'll swing by; if it's bright enough I'll get some pictures & I'll get some tomorrow as well. These apartments are being built right to the street. Parallel parking already exists. I will try and see tonight if they are building out new roads. Also, I know the existing construction was nothing near the urban development they had planned, but if you notice, it's not specified was going to go where they are located now.

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## Plutonic Panda

The more I look at it, the more it looks like those apartments were built so they could continue the original plan if they wanted to.

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## Plutonic Panda

When I get back home I'll update the map I outlined in blue. Unfortunately it does not appear that they are building a parking garage and it looks to be suburban apartments with a clubhouse.  :Frown: 

Does anyone have any renderings or plans for the current development?

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## hfry

Its on the OKCgov website somewhere but I'm having trouble finding it but I know the phase they are building to the south is all apartments and what they just got approved on or have been pushing on the east side is all duplexs, tri and quadplexs I believe. From the original PUD they specified exactly how much housing they could have in this development and planning was giving them a more difficult time because they are already pretty close to that number since all they have done is housing there.

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## hfry

Alright Plu Pan here is what I was able to find.  
and here was their december application that I'm sure they have changed a little. http://www.okc.gov/agendapub/cache/2...5090749412.PDF
And then the area thats being built farther south which is what you were asking about to begin with is this proposal http://www.okc.gov/agendapub/cache/2...5091451576.PDF

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## rlewis

Apparently development on this land is getting ready to go full tilt.  I live in one of the neighborhoods north of the development, and our HOA has been approached by the lawyers of the developer(s) to discuss the development.  It looks like all of the land is going to be developed, but I can't tell from the materials that have been distributed if it is going to have the Tuscana theme.  The layout of the development does not look at all like what Is shown above.  

It looks like there are going to be at least 3 apartment complexes on the property (that includes the one already completed), homes/garden homes/duplexes (it is not very clear), office buildings, and retail.  I don't see anything that resembles a big box retailer or a fast food-type building in the plans.  Our HOA has called a meeting this Thursday to talk about the plans.  I'll share anything that I find out.

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## bchris02

It will be interesting to see what becomes of this and if there will in fact be any mixed use components.  There are developments all over suburban DFW that are primarily residential but have retail/restaurants on the first floor.  It would be nice to see a few of these in OKC.

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## Dustin

I highly doubt it will be as ambitious as originally planned, but one can hope.

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## bchris02

> I highly doubt it will be as ambitious as originally planned, but one can hope.


Agreed.  However, the fact that it is getting developed at all is a pleasant surprise at this point.

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