# Civic Matters > Ask Anything About OKC >  Driver's School (traffic ticket)

## Pete

So, I got a ticket for going 41 MPH on 10th Street west of Western.  This is a stretch that is divided 4-lane road on a major thoroughfare...  I honestly had no idea the speed limit was 30 and I'm sure very few people do either, which is why one of OKC's Finest hid himself behind a building and decided that the best use of his time in the aid of OKC's public safety was to pull over and ticket someone going 10 MPH over a ridiculously low speed limit.

One more editorial comment:  He was basically writing the ticket before I got a word out of my mouth, being I had no idea the speed limit was 30 because on most major roads it is 40 and that I had just moved from California and wasn't familiar with that stretch.  And it was only 41 MPH for crying out loud....  How about a warning?  He didn't even listen, he was there to write tickets.

I have not had any type of violation in many years so now I have to decide if I want to suck it up and go to traffic school to keep this off my driving record.

Problem is, that's an additional $200 (!) on top of the $161 for the ticket.

My car is older (and so am I) and thus my car insurance is very low.

Is it worth $200 to keep this off my record?

----------


## turnpup

So sorry you got caught in that speed trap!  We've seen them parked by that VFW post several times lately, so it's clearly a revenue-making scheme.  They love to camp out at the bottom of that hill.  Hell, even if you were going 30, you'd have to be riding your brakes to keep it that speed right there.  

If I were you, I'd just eat the cost of the ticket and move on.  But I'm saying this from the perspective of somebody who hasn't gotten a ticket in probably 20 years, so don't have much information.

----------


## Pete

Yes, forgot about the hill part.

It's absolutely absurd to ticket people there unless they are going unreasonably fast, which I was not.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^^^^^^
A perfect example of traffic engineers building a road for more speed than is wanted or safe. At that point it is left up to law enforcement, because people tend to intuitively drive the speed that a road LOOKS like belongs there, rather than what is posted on a sign. The built environment dictates how people act/react; not signs. If they wanted 30 MPH through there, they should have built a 30 MPH road, not a 50 MPH road.

----------


## Pete

Frankly, I am surprised I wasn't driving faster given the setting -- divided 4-lane road with nothing along the north side (this is the completely empty stretch that drew a multi-use proposal) and going downhill.

It's stuff like this that makes people unsympathetic to the police department's constant cry for more officers.  And him being a jackass didn't make it any better.

----------


## Paseofreak

Revenue, baby, revenue! It's a sad, sad thing when the government turns against the people with malice and afore thought.

----------


## sooner88

I drive that part of 10th once or twice a month. Sporadically enough that I forget what the speed limit is, but I've caught myself multiple times going 40-45 before I see a speed limit sign. In no way does it feel like you should be going that slow.

----------


## Pete

Can anyone think of any OKC major (as in section line) 4-lane road that has a 30 MPH speed limit?

I cannot.

----------


## Urbanized

Here is an excellent NACTO page discussing design/target/posted speeds and their relationships: Design Speed - National Association of City Transportation Officials

----------


## adaniel

> Can anyone think of any OKC major (as in section line) 4-lane road that has a 30 MPH speed limit?
> 
> I cannot.


Broadway, between 13th and 23rd, which is also a massive speed trap. The cops frequently hide in the bakery lot just  on the other side of the hill.

----------


## Pete

> ^
> Broadway, between 13th and 23rd, which is also a massive speed trap. The cops frequently hide in the bakery lot just  on the other side of the hill.


Yes!  Although Broadway isn't a section line road.

I was actually pulled over there once going about 40 but just received a warning.

----------


## Urbanized

Section line roads don't HAVE to be 4-lane, high-speed. It depends on the area and the availability of other arterials nearby. Pennsylvania, through Nichols Hills, is 25 MPH. Western Avenue where it runs through Wheeler district is proposed to be narrowed and reduced to 25 MPH.

----------


## OKCDrummer77

> Can anyone think of any OKC major (as in section line) 4-lane road that has a 30 MPH speed limit?
> 
> I cannot.


MacArthur, just north of NW Expressway.  In its defense, it is a somewhat hilly and curvy road right there as it goes through the "survey correction" that all section line roads go through at Wilshire Blvd.

----------


## Urbanized

Britton Road through old town Britton

----------


## Pete

^

Right, just that brief stretch and no doubt due to a pretty big curve that makes it very difficult to make a left turn off of Wilshire onto MacArthur.

I doubt many people are blazing through there due to the curve itself which tends to slow down traffic.

----------


## rezman

Pete, did the officer code the ticket so it wouldn't go on your insurance?   I was stopped by OCPD on N Western  between 150th & 164th. He said he clocked me @ 54 in the posted 40  zone, but  wrote the ticket for 10 over to keep it off of my insurance,  as anything 11mph and over will get their attention.  I didn't have to say anything.  He just came to my window, took my license, and came back with the ticket and told me how he wrote it, including the court date and how to pay for it, and to have a good day.

----------


## Urbanized

That section of 10th where you got your ticket was a fairly recent widening. It was late in Paul Brum's tenure and was widened mostly just "because it was there," if you listened to the Public Works explanations of the project. There were rarely actual TRAFFIC issues there that caused it, other than people coming off of I-44 and complaining that they couldn't drive 40 MPH straight to Saint Anthony or wherever they were headed.

In retrospect, it would have been much healthier for the surrounding neighborhoods if there had been a single lane, a parking lane, and either a center turn lane in lieu of the median or slip lanes in the median instead. The 4 lane, fast traffic and no street parking approach has made it that much more difficult to attract commercial and mixed use projects on that corridor. Though the two RFPs have attracted interest, they would have made much more sense with on-street parking available for the proposed first-floor commercial. In turn this would have benefited CTP and the neighborhood south of 10th, adding some services and walkability to areas where the residents either really value it OR really need it.

----------


## Martin

was the ticket issued for 1-10 over or for 11 over?  afaik, in oklahoma 10 or less over doesn't result in any points on a regular driver's license and therefore shouldn't affect your insurance. -M

edit: refer to page 6 of this document to see what i'm talking about**:  https://www.dps.state.ok.us/recm/VCB.pdf

----------


## Urbanized

Yeah, if it is <10 MPH over, like rezman says, it is called a "municipal violation" and is not reported to the database that insurance companies use. Cops love it because those tickets are contested less (they have to appear in court to testify against you on the docket date for a ticket), and because they can come off as a good guy who gave you a break, while still ringing you up for a hundy. If he stuck to the 14 over you're right about him being a bit of a jerk.

Edit: also like Martin says.

----------


## gamecock

_I have not had any type of violation in many years so now I have to decide if I want to suck it up and go to traffic school to keep this off my driving record.

Problem is, that's an additional $200 (!) on top of the $161 for the ticket.

My car is older (and so am I) and thus my car insurance is very low.

Is it worth $200 to keep this off my record?[/QUOTE]_

I recently got a ticket, too, and I took an online course that cost $29. It only took about 1.5 hours to complete the online course and earn the certificate. For me, it was worth it.

----------


## Pete

> was the ticket issued for 1-10 over or for 11 over?  afaik, in oklahoma 10 or less over doesn't result in any points on a regular driver's license and therefore shouldn't affect your insurance. -M
> 
> edit: refer to page 6 of this document to see what i'm talking about**:  https://www.dps.state.ok.us/recm/VCB.pdf


Hey hey!  So glad I sought the collective wisdom of this site.

Even though he wrote "41/30" on the ticket, the violation was for "Speeding 1-10 over".

So, it looks like this won't even appear on my record.  You think the guy would have bothered to tell me this, but he literally just handed me the ticket and walked away, without a word.

Still $161 bloody dollars but better than having to pay another $200 or have higher insurance premium.

Thanks Martin.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^
Yep, $161 is the exact amount I got for a municipal violation on my motorcycle on Broadway last year. The cop made a big production of how it wouldn't go on my record even though I was going faster, and said he was doing me a favor because he used to ride motorcycles and could tell that I was only trying to get distance from the 3 idiots around me who were drifting in and out of lanes, changing lanes etc around the fire station jogs. Then he proceeded to lecture me about riding a motorcycle in the first place, since he'd seen so many gruesome accidents involving them. I smiled and nodded, but what I really wanted to do was sack up and ask him why he was writing ME when he knew and admitted to seeing that the inattentive car drivers were the real problem.

----------


## Pete

Police departments should have figured out a long time ago to split off the traffic cops from the rest of their ranks because for most people who vote and make the decisions about how the police are funded and supported, their only interaction with the force is when they get pulled over and ticketed and most the times the person doing it is a jackhole in the process.

I've always believed this is one of the main reasons firefighters are revered and paid substantially more.

I've literally never had any interaction with the police other than traffic violations and the huge majority of those have left me spitting mad.  Pull me over for going 15+ over the speed limit or racing through a school zone and I deserve it.  But 90% of the time it's some idiot in Warr Acres or Nichols Hills or on this absurdly marked road and they are just taxing you for doing what everyone else has been doing for years.

BTW, cops in California seemed to be much better about this.  They just want traffic to move and many times I saw them actually stopping to help people, rather than trying to persecute them.

In Oklahoma, besides this incident, I was ticketed for going 43 in a 40 (I swear), 39 in a 30 and 47 in a 40.  These were all in the 80's before I moved away and I really hoped the city had changed in this regard.  Also, I got pulled over for running a stop sign where I actually saw the cop sitting there, took good care to stop and he STILL pulled me over saying that I never came to a full, resting stop.  

So incredibly petty.  I think I only had 3 tickets in 25 years in California and in all cases I was driving too fast and deserved what I got.

----------


## OKCRT

> Police departments should have figured out a long time ago to split off the traffic cops from the rest of their ranks because for most people who vote and make the decisions about how the police are funded and supported, their only interaction with the force is when they get pulled over and ticketed and most the times the person doing it is a jackhole in the process.
> 
> I've always believed this is one of the main reasons firefighters are revered and paid substantially more.
> 
> I've literally never had any interaction with the police other than traffic violations and the huge majority of those have left me spitting mad.  Pull me over for going 15+ over the speed limit or racing through a school zone and I deserve it.  But 90% of the time it's some idiot in Warr Acres or Nichols Hills or on this absurdly marked road and they are just taxing you for doing what everyone else has been doing for years.
> 
> BTW, cops in California seemed to be much better about this.  They just want traffic to move and many times I saw them actually stopping to help people, rather than trying to persecute them.
> 
> In Oklahoma, besides this incident, I was ticketed for going 43 in a 40 (I swear), 39 in a 30 and 47 in a 40.  These were all in the 80's before I moved away and I really hoped the city had changed in this regard.  Also, I got pulled over for running a stop sign where I actually saw the cop sitting there, took good care to stop and he STILL pulled me over saying that I never came to a full, resting stop.  
> ...



I will never forget when I was ticketed on Turner Turnpike for going 68 in a 65. On New Years many years ago when the speed limit was 65mph all along the pike. I couldn't believe it. So you never know when they will get you. Seems like in the past few years they are even worse and this is the reason many people don't like the cops here in OKC even though this was a OHP that got me. Last year I got a ticket going down Eastern just south of 2-40 on my way to Moore. I was going along no cars in sight 55mph and the speed limit was 45mph. I thought it was 55mph but he nailed me for about $170.00 but at least it didn't go on my insurance.

----------


## turnpup

> Broadway, between 13th and 23rd, which is also a massive speed trap. The cops frequently hide in the bakery lot just  on the other side of the hill.


Yikes!  Guess I'm lucky because I travel that route 2 x per day at least now and haven't run into the speed trap.  Thanks for the heads-up.  Going to be much more careful now.  It's really easy to get over 30 on that stretch.

----------


## Tundra

Im okay with a ticket as long as the cop wasn't hiding or sitting and waiting for me to screw up, I'd rather them be "patrolling" and catch me speeding, rather than just sitting there eating donuts waiting for me to screw up. Maybe if the were "patrolling" other crimes might be deterred as well, besides speeding....

----------


## u50254082

It's funny how we all start having opinions about speed limits and the police once we get a speeding ticket. I had the same experience last year on the broadway extension. OCPD was in an unmarked car in the left side breakdown lane and clocking people coming up behind (and over a hill).

And honestly, I was speeding, and the officer was "generous" and wrote it as a 10 over. The violation code was "ZPA". He said it was a fine only and wouldn't impact insurance, but I called at least a dozen attorneys in the metro area and got a dozen different answers.

I went with an attorney for representation (I was too busy with work to be driving to the court house, etc.) and he got a deferred adjudication ruling from the judge. 6 months of clean driving behavior on my part and all the charges were dropped, but I had to pay out the ass since the city still gets their money. I figured, why not take the chance to experience the American court system and not give in to the revenue generating 10 over speeding BS. You can take traffic school something like once every 3 years so you should save it for when you are found doing 120MPH in a 25MPH or something outrageous. Don't waste it on a 10 over.

Anyway, I have since then stopped speeding and run a radar detector now (which seems pointless since I don't speed). 98% of the patrol cars in the state use Ka band, except for some random Newcastle cops who still use K band and some HiPo CHiPs carry LIDAR guns. I still like to keep the detector on so I know when cops are around and what sort of patterns and times of day they utilize for speed traps. That all being said, I'll do at most 5 over posted now, even on the highway where it seems I've turned into an absolute nuisance.

If the state needs revenue, it needs to post a dozen HiPo cars down in Norman on I35 near the construction. Even with the posted 55 mph limit and 2 "here is your speed" signs, people still blow through there at 80MPH all day long.

----------


## Pete

> Im okay with a ticket as long as the cop wasn't hiding or sitting and waiting for me to screw up, I'd rather them be "patrolling" and catch me speeding, rather than just sitting there eating donuts waiting for me to screw up. Maybe if the were "patrolling" other crimes might be deterred as well, besides speeding....


This guy was hiding behind a building at the bottom of the hill.

Interestingly -- and perhaps significantly -- he wrote on the ticket that he was traveling eastbound and that was 100% false.  I saw him as soon as I passed him (I was headed west), he flicked on his lights and fell in right behind me.  Why would he lie about this?  To perhaps cover up for the fact he was setting a speed trap rather than being on patrol?

----------


## u50254082

> This guy was hiding behind a building at the bottom of the hill.
> 
> Interestingly -- and perhaps significantly -- he wrote on the ticket that he was traveling eastbound and that was 100% false.  I saw him as soon as I passed him (I was headed west), he flicked on his lights and fell in right behind me.  Why would he lie about this?  To perhaps cover up for the fact he was setting a speed trap rather than being on patrol?


It flat out doesn't matter. You don't get off on technicalities when the traffic court judge sides with the officer 99% of the time.

----------


## oklip955

Pete, I wish we were paid substaintially more. The old argument is that cops work a 40 hrs work week and so cannot work much part time were as firefighters work 24 hr shifts and so have days off and can work a part time job. Yah right. Most cops and firefighters are paid about the same. Sorry but that is life, personally experience x 28 yrs of working on a paid dept. (retired now)

----------


## tfvc.org

I know this is too little too late and has been mentioned before, I have a friend who used to live in some apartments just North of there and cops sit behind that VFW all the time.  It is like driving through Noble, hiding behind hills right after the speed drops 10 mph.

I got a ticket last September going 63 in a 45 on S 54th st just past Portland.  They love patrolling that road as well.  Big wide road that looks like it should be 50-55 and getting people going to the airport.  Luckily like you he reduced it to under 10 over.  First ticket I had gotten in 5+ years,

----------


## securityinfo

Two words:

Valentine 1

----------


## ctchandler

> Britton Road through old town Britton


Urbanized,
Actually, it's 25 mph.  Going East on Britton, it's 35 till you hit Western, then it's 25 for about half a mile, then it's 35 again.  After you cross Broadway, it's 45.
C. T.

----------


## kevinpate

Pete, if you are written up as 1-10, do not do driving school (which by the by, can be done online way cheaper than you are thinking.

If you are over 10 as written, fergitabout actual, it's what they charge that matters, then you go to the counter at OKC muni, you tell them you want to do driving school, pay a reduced amount (138 if I recall right) and are given a deadline to complete and turn in driving school certificate.  Online school is a couple hours of mild pain and in the $25-40 range, so about the same as paying a ticket.

You can only do driving school once every 2-3 years, so do not use it up on a ticket that won't impact insurance.

If you want to yak on it in more detail, you are free to contact me.

----------


## Bits_Of_Real_Panther

"Can anyone think of any OKC major (as in section line) 4-lane road that has a 30 MPH speed limit?"

That stretch of 23rd from the Gold Dome to Penn is 30, plus they have those flashing yellow school slowdown lights too.  People fly though

----------


## Jeepnokc

What we do is set the case for trial.  If the officer shows up, we take the driving school at that point.  If he doesn't show up and hasn't called in, the case is dismissed.  Setting the case for trial does increase the court cost by $10 if you end up taking deal but costs nothing if officer doesn't show which does happen.





> Pete, if you are written up as 1-10, do not do driving school (which by the by, can be done online way cheaper than you are thinking.
> 
> If you are over 10 as written, fergitabout actual, it's what they charge that matters, then you go to the counter at OKC muni, you tell them you want to do driving school, pay a reduced amount (138 if I recall right) and are given a deadline to complete and turn in driving school certificate.  Online school is a couple hours of mild pain and in the $25-40 range, so about the same as paying a ticket.
> 
> You can only do driving school once every 2-3 years, so do not use it up on a ticket that won't impact insurance.
> 
> If you want to yak on it in more detail, you are free to contact me.

----------


## Mike_M

I was changing my insurance carrier last year and got a ticket for 11-20 over (at the Broadway speedtrap).  I mentioned it to each of the insurance agents and they said it probably wouldn't make a difference in my rate, and the quotes were right on. Now they could've been cutting me a deal for switching, but I think if you have a generally clean record, one minor ticket isn't going to skyrocket your rates.

----------


## Pete

> Pete, if you are written up as 1-10, do not do driving school (which by the by, can be done online way cheaper than you are thinking.


The school itself is only $25-$50, but the associated extra fee for the city is $150.

This on top of the $161 ticket.


As has been established, being cited for 1-10 over the limit (as I was) does not even get reported nor does it show on your driving record.  So, I'm just going to have to suck it up and pay the $161 for a ridiculous speed trap.

----------


## BBatesokc

I used to get pulled over in that general area relatively often - at least 4-6 times for speeding. Never got a speeding ticket though. Did receive two different tickets on two different occasions.... The first was for brake light that was out - had no idea. The officer (female) was actually transporting a prisoner, saw it was me and pulled me over. It was later confirmed to me this was a policy violation. She shouldn't have initiated a minor traffic stop while transporting a prisoner (liability reasons). She actually had pulled me over or otherwise followed me on numerous occasions. I got tired of it and posted her pic and identity on my website. She left me alone after that and had someone else contact me about removing her pic if she left me alone going forward.

The second time was at NW 16th and Blackwelder.  Again, another officer recognized me and began following me for some time. I turned east on NW 16th from Blackwelder and he immediately hit his lights.

I pulled immediately into the parking area of the then apartments on the SE corner (now The Mule).

The officer first said I didn't signal my turn. I told him that was not true and I did. When he refused to believe me I called for a supervisor. When the supervisor arrived I showed him that I had a dash camera and you could clearly hear the 'clicking' of my run signal.

The supervisor agreed and went back to speak to the officer. The officer then proceeded to re-write the ticket. this time for when I pulled into the apartment parking area. Even though my blinker can be heard in that instance too - he said I didn't initiate the blinker far enough away (I can't recall the exact number of feet required - lets go with 50-100'). 

I went to court and argued that there wasn't 50-100' between the intersection and the parking space I pulled into. I also argued that my blinker was on when I made the turn off Blackwelder onto 16th and that I turned on my blinker again when the officer initiated the stop.

Judge didn't care. Ticket stood.

The one legal lesson I learned was when you go to city traffic court to fight a ticket - pay the fee for a transcript to be made. If you don't, then you can't appeal the judge's decision. I think if I had paid that fee the judge may have ruled in my favor knowing I would have appealed otherwise.

----------


## kevinpate

Driving school and the 138 fee is, if memory recalls, in lieu of paying the ticket, not on top of the 161 ticket.

However, as a 1-10 ticket is not going to add points, and there is no cost savings at all (138+25 v. 161),
there no sound reason to give up the chance of using driving school in the next 3 years should one land a 12 or 15 over ticket, which will carry points and impact insurance.

Muni courts across the nation make their budgets on fines and costs.  OKC is not near as harsh as some out there, but yeah, more harsh than others.  

Word to the wise, do not get in trouble in MWC.  It can cost one way more than a similar offense in state court can run, even a first timer.

Oh and jeep is right that if the officer does not show or call in, the case is dismissed.  Of course, many drivers have shelled out for counsel at that point and will still have that expense.  

Most all of my muni work is for existing clients or their family members while something else is happening in their lives. I don't really know what the going rate for muni only work is.

----------


## Pete

> Driving school and the 138 fee is, if memory recalls, in lieu of paying the ticket, not on top of the 161 ticket.


That is not my understanding.

Can anyone else confirm one way or another?

----------


## Anonymous.

> *I will never forget when I was ticketed on Turner Turnpike for going 68 in a 65. On New Years many years ago when the speed limit was 65mph all along the pike. I couldn't believe it.* So you never know when they will get you. Seems like in the past few years they are even worse and this is the reason many people don't like the cops here in OKC even though this was a OHP that got me. Last year I got a ticket going down Eastern just south of 2-40 on my way to Moore. I was going along no cars in sight 55mph and the speed limit was 45mph. I thought it was 55mph but he nailed me for about $170.00 but at least it didn't go on my insurance.


New Years, he was fishing for more than a 3mph speeding ticket.

----------


## Jeepnokc

The correct answer is:

If you elect to do driving school, the cost is $138.00 admin fee for court plus cost of the driving school which is between $25.00-$50.00 depending on the course.  There is no other fee or fine.  

(FYI....always do the online course)

This is per the court clerk

----------


## stile99

I wonder if they heavily imply about still paying the ticket, perhaps to the point of outright lying, because that was my impression as well.  Of course, I also could have gotten the wrong impression, and this was MANY years ago, but the last ticket I received, I wasn't even speeding and believe the cop simply picked the wrong car to pull over.  (It's either that or he had no idea how to operate the damn thing, since I was doing 2 MPH *under* the posted limit.)  So obviously I looked into fighting the ticket, and it basically came down to three options.  1: Pay the ticket.  I can't recall the exact charge, just for funsies let's say $100.  2: Contest the ticket and win.  This results in a $100 court charge.  3: Contest the ticket and lose.  Now it's pay the $100 court charge AND the $100 ticket fine.

As has been noted, I very distinctly got the impression it was a carefully-engineered money making scheme, designed to just make you pony up the dough.  If you resist and somehow win (HA!), they still get their money.  If you resist and lose, they get double.  In my mind it became a question of how much do you want to pay, $100 or $200.  When looked at that way, the choice was obvious.  So then the question became do you want to just cut a check for the $100, or piss away at least a day's worth of time/income and THEN cut the check for $100.  Again, the choice was obvious.

----------


## TheTravellers

> Police departments should have figured out a long time ago to split off the traffic cops from the rest of their ranks because for most people who vote and make the decisions about how the police are funded and supported, their only interaction with the force is when they get pulled over and ticketed and most the times the person doing it is a jackhole in the process.
> 
> I've always believed this is one of the main reasons firefighters are revered and paid substantially more.
> 
> I've literally never had any interaction with the police other than traffic violations and the huge majority of those have left me spitting mad.  Pull me over for going 15+ over the speed limit or racing through a school zone and I deserve it.  But 90% of the time it's some idiot in Warr Acres or Nichols Hills or on this absurdly marked road and they are just taxing you for doing what everyone else has been doing for years.
> 
> BTW, cops in California seemed to be much better about this.  They just want traffic to move and many times I saw them actually stopping to help people, rather than trying to persecute them.
> 
> In Oklahoma, besides this incident, I was ticketed for going 43 in a 40 (I swear), 39 in a 30 and 47 in a 40.  These were all in the 80's before I moved away and I really hoped the city had changed in this regard.  Also, I got pulled over for running a stop sign where I actually saw the cop sitting there, took good care to stop and he STILL pulled me over saying that I never came to a full, resting stop.  
> ...


Welcome to OKC!  :Frown:   I had the same problem here when I moved back - never had *any* tickets in WI, IL, IN, or WA (one warning, but no tickets) for almost 20 years, then come back here and get 3 in one f-ing year due to the wonderful revenue enhancement program of metro-area cops.  Had to take an online driving school, but went out right damn away and got a radar detector, and haven't gotten a ticket since.  So the moral of the story is - OKC metro-area traffic cops suck worse than traffic cops in other states (surprise) and go buy a radar detector, it's well worth the investment.  It's interesting now that I can see (and hear) radar - I find that almost every single OKC cop is driving with radar on, while sheriffs and OHP almost always drive with their radar off.

----------


## Jersey Boss

You pay court costs even if found not guilty? That would sure incentive ticketing every car coming down the road.

----------


## u50254082

What is also infuriating is other states regularly allow you to plead a speeding ticket down to a non-moving parking violation of $20. Not an option in OK in even the slightest.

----------


## sooner88

> What is also infuriating is other states regularly allow you to plead a speeding ticket down to a non-moving parking violation of $20. Not an option in OK in even the slightest.


While a ~$160 - $200 ticket is annoying to some, it is devastating to others. What happens if they aren't able to pay their ticket? If they choose to feed their children / pay rent / utilities, etc. vs. pay the fine? Is their a warrant issued which leads to more fines and/or jail time?

----------


## Pete

^

Yep.  When it's something silly like this where they don't even think it's worth reporting on your driving record, it functions exactly like a tax.  A very big tax.

As others have said, it's just a revenue generation scheme and there is really no fairness or legitimate due process.

It also should be said that if you want to contest in court, you have to take time off work because it's always in the middle of a week day.  That's another big burden on the working class.


I can say the one thing that was way, way worse about California:  Parking tickets.  Any municipality (and there were hundreds just in the L.A. area) can come up with whatever fine they want.  They all employ these low-wage meter watchers in little electric vehicles and they see meters about to expire and sit there and wait for them to click over, then issue like a $75 ticket.  Yes, $75 for not feeding a quarter into the meter.

They also do this ridiculous thing that if you don't have your front license plate displayed -- which 95% of the people do not -- they write you a ticket for that as well.  So the little city of El Segundo or wherever pulls in about $150 a throw and they do this dozens and dozens of times an hour.   Why on earth is a *city* fining you for your state license plate??  Don't know but it doesn't matter, they can and they do and they are highly, highly incentivized to do so without any real opportunity to contest.

----------


## Tritone

Like many, I've been stopped a few times.  Usually it's just a "keep it down, okay?"  One stop really sticks in my mind.  Newcastle, years ago when highway 9 east to Norman was two-lane.  "I need your license and insurance.  You were doing 56 in a 55 zone and you're getting a ticket."  Wow!

----------


## Pete

BTW, the officer that stopped me did not ask for proof of registration or insurance.

He clearly wanted to hurry and get back to writing more tickets.

----------


## TheTravellers

> BTW, the officer that stopped me did not ask for proof of registration or insurance.
> 
> He clearly wanted to hurry and get back to writing more tickets.


Wow, that's very unusual - all the times I've been stopped here, the a-holes (yes, they were, and I was generally neutral, and hadn't been doing anything dangerous - rolling a stop sign (stick shift - who doesn't roll stop signs while driving a stick), "following too closely" (while coming up on a guy stopped at a stop sign), and 10 MPH over is about as scary as I was doing) *always* checked every single thing out, took them forever to get back to me...

----------


## RadicalModerate

I can't remember the last time I had a speeding ticket. The closest thing to it, was the time that an officer of the law out in Arcadia followed me almost all the way to the Lake Arcadia Dam, early in the morning, before the sun was up, on my way to work, before he pulled me over.  I was doing a couple of miles over the limit within the actual township. He said that he had his lights on (to pull me over) for at least a couple of miles. He said he thought he would have to call the sheriff to continue the pursuit. I was doing about 55 in an insane posted 70 mph speed zone (old Route 66, after the improvements). I said, "Sorry. I guess you got me." We shared a laugh. I wished him well. We both went on our way. Me, to work. He to his duty. That is an absolutely true story. Every time I drive through Nichols Hills (25 mph on Penn and 20 on Grand) I think to myself: "Is this entire enclave some sort of Special School Zone for The Vaguely Retarded?" And then I drive the speed limit. (Welcome back to Oklahoma, Pete.)

----------


## RadicalModerate

p.s. I just remembered the last time I got a Speeding Ticket: It was c/o Forest Park back in the mid-80s. Whatever you do avoid Forest Park. (or don't. your choice.) Oh! And if you ever drive though The Village, be sure not to exceed the 35 mph limit. Especially if the traffic is moving at 20 or 60 mph. =~)

----------


## RadicalModerate

> BTW, the officer that stopped me did not ask for proof of registration or insurance.
> 
> He clearly wanted to hurry and get back to writing more tickets.


And . . . ?

----------


## rezman

Looking back over the years since, I've been stopped by OCPD, Warr Acres, Bethany,  Moore,  El Reno,  Mustang,  Okla County Sherriff,  OHP,  Ferris Tx,  and Texas HP.    Not once have I ever been asked for my vehicle registration.

----------


## Pete

^

Must be a California thing.

But not asking for proof of insurance?

----------


## rezman

Ever since the compulsory Insurance laws took affect, I have been asked to show proof  of insurance almost every time. There were a coulple times when the officer didn't, but that was definitely the exception. That last time  up on Western, the officer didn't ask for it because he was able to  look me up and verify it before he even  got out of his car.

----------


## Urbanized

Yeah, I rarely have been pulled over in the past dozen or so years since I moved from the 'burbs to the edge of downtown, but pretty much anytime I have ever been pulled over in Oklahoma I've been asked for proof of insurance.

----------


## rezman

The Ferris Texas stop was back in the  late 90's. A smallish town revenue generator  sitting in the median on I-45  just south of Dallas.  I had recently slowed down from a long 100mph sprint with about 6 other cars coming up from Houston, and I got off at Palmer to get some fuel. After getting back on the highway, I came up on two of the cars I had been running high speed with pulled over by LEO's. Not long after I passed them, the Ferris cop got me for 10 over.

----------


## RadicalModerate

Driving School? . . . : Beware of The Bridge on The Main Street of America (Route 66, aka The Mother Road) in the vicinity of Luther. Don't ask me why . . . Simply be sure to obey the tricky Speed Limit signs. I learned that from my brother. Luther tried to make a Federal Case out of it. As the old saying goes: "Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself." =~)

----------


## tfvc.org

When I got pulled over the officer told me I could have pulled my insurance up on my phone to show him.  Right, I am going to give you my unlocked phone to take to your car to verify insurance and rifle through it while you are at it.  I would rather give you the paper I printed out.

----------


## OKCRT

> p.s. I just remembered the last time I got a Speeding Ticket: It was c/o Forest Park back in the mid-80s. Whatever you do avoid Forest Park. (or don't. your choice.) Oh! And if you ever drive though The Village, be sure not to exceed the 35 mph limit. Especially if the traffic is moving at 20 or 60 mph. =~)


Forest Park-early 80s going east on NE 36th st. There's a Stop sign. Just started raining very lightly. Hit brakes to stop and slid a little bit past the stop sign from oil  on the road. Cop sitting across street lights me up. Gives me ticket and court date. I go to court on the date on the ticket and guess what? Court closed,it was in the school I believe. Next day they had issued a warrant and suspended my drivers lic. for not paying ticket. Yes,true story no joke.

----------


## Kemotblue

> Frankly, I am surprised I wasn't driving faster given the setting -- divided 4-lane road with nothing along the north side (this is the completely empty stretch that drew a multi-use proposal) and going downhill.
> 
> It's stuff like this that makes people unsympathetic to the police department's constant cry for more officers.  And him being a jackass didn't make it any better.


WOW!  That's 30mph!  look at that straightaway and wide open looks like a 40mph street not a 30mph street.  I don't see a lot of posted speed limit signs.

----------


## rezman

Arcadia is still a speed trap town, but not near as bad as it used to be. One of my old neighbors out there got a speeding ticket and he didn't pay it by the due date.  He works in the area of Memorial Road and Santa Fe, and the Arcadia police chief showed up at his work in uniform and called him out about about his overdue fine.  When my neighbor asked him about the ticket turning into a bench warrant and arrest, the chief told him that he wasn't going to arrest him. He would just keep showing up at his work until he paid the fine.

----------


## OKCRT

> Arcadia is still a speed trap town, but not near as bad as it used to be. One of my old neighbors out there got a speeding ticket and he didn't pay it by the due date.  He works in the area of Memorial Road and Santa Fe, and the Arcadia police chief showed up at his work in uniform and called him out about about his overdue fine.  When my neighbor asked him about the ticket turning into a bench warrant and arrest, the chief told him that he wasn't going to arrest him. He would just keep showing up at his work until he paid the fine.


Sounds like Barney Fife.

----------


## Tritone

> When I got pulled over the officer told me I could have pulled my insurance up on my phone to show him.  Right, I am going to give you my unlocked phone to take to your car to verify insurance and rifle through it while you are at it.  I would rather give you the paper I printed out.


What, isn't anyone going to say that if you have nothing to hide that you shouldn't need to worry?  Mind if we look around in your car (or house)  a little bit?  After all, if you don't have anything to hide...

----------


## OKCRT

Times are getting to where you need to have one of those GoPro cameras strapped to your head so you can record everything that happens.

----------


## Thomas Vu

> When I got pulled over the officer told me I could have pulled my insurance up on my phone to show him.  Right, I am going to give you my unlocked phone to take to your car to verify insurance and rifle through it while you are at it.  I would rather give you the paper I printed out.


That never occurred to me.  Officers have never taken my phone to their car.

----------


## tfvc.org

I don't have anything on my phone that would be incriminating, especially since the only thing I do is the occasional speeding, however I don't think it is anyone's business to go through my phone.  In the early 2000s I was dumb enough to leave my phone at my desk while I went on break and someone decided to use my phone to call and harass an ex.  Well for weeks I was harassed by one of her friends, I ended up calling the police and a nice officer called that person and told him to knock it off.  Since then I do not let my phone out of my posession.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> ^
> 
> Yep.  When it's something silly like this where they don't even think it's worth reporting on your driving record, it functions exactly like a tax.  A very big tax.
> 
> As others have said, it's just a revenue generation scheme and there is really no fairness or legitimate due process.
> 
> It also should be said that if you want to contest in court, you have to take time off work because it's always in the middle of a week day.  That's another big burden on the working class.
> 
> 
> ...


I've already had like 10 parking tickets since I've been here in the past year. I've learned that.

----------


## BBatesokc

I highly recommend a dash cam in a person's car - wish they came standard. I use this one and have for years - best features for the price. When I get pulled over I rotate one of the camera to my driver's side door to record my interaction with the officer.

I buy from this seller because his price is the best usually and the product is as advertised.

The Original Dashcam 2 4SK606 Black 4SIGHT Auto Video Recording Camera 2" | eBay

----------


## RadicalModerate

> I've already had like 10 parking tickets since I've been here in the past year. I've learned that.


Back where I grew up--Boulder, Colorado--it was always difficult to find a parking place anywhere in the vicinity of the campus.  Once you found one, you really didn't want to move your vehicle. Many, many parking tickets were issued.  A community service, performed by voluteers, was to pull parking tickets (of complete strangers) out from under windshield wipers and dispose of them. It was common knowledge this was being done. What one could do would be to pay every 5th parking ticket received. Then, when challenged for unpaid parking tickets, one could say something like, "I pay parking tickets. Check your records. Someone must have pulled those others out from under my windshield wipers."  I'm not sure how well that would work in the modern world, but it worked well back in the day.

----------


## u50254082

> I highly recommend a dash cam in a person's car - wish they came standard. I use this one and have for years - best features for the price. When I get pulled over I rotate one of the camera to my driver's side door to record my interaction with the officer.
> 
> I buy from this seller because his price is the best usually and the product is as advertised.
> 
> The Original Dashcam 2 4SK606 Black 4SIGHT Auto Video Recording Camera 2" | eBay




It looks like that is dual lens? Does it perform decently well when one lens is pointing backwards to catch if someone rear ends you?

Also, has it survived the heat and sunlight of an Oklahoma summer?

----------


## Uptowner

about 5-8 seems to be the magic number. And I avoid speeding down declines. I haven't been ticketed in years.  I got a ticket doing 41 on 23rd(30MPH) street years ago and the cop told me if he sees 10MPH or over he's going for it, but I he never went to the effort for 5MPH. Also, 23rd only has a single sign stating the 30mph zone between classen and penn. 

Now I'm going to go knock on all the wood...

----------


## Bill Robertson

This thead makes me sooooooooo glad I got my license and got my driving way too fast days behind me when tickets and insurance were relatively cheap. I got my license in 74 and had it suspended on points 3 times by 85. I had built a nasty 68 GTO and couldn't keep my foot out of it.

----------


## Bill Robertson

> about 5-8 seems to be the magic number. And I avoid speeding down declines. I haven't been ticketed in years.  I got a ticket doing 41 on 23rd(30MPH) street years ago and the cop told me if he sees 10MPH or over he's going for it, but I he never went to the effort for 5MPH. Also, 23rd only has a single sign stating the 30mph zone between classen and penn. 
> 
> Now I'm going to go knock on all the wood...


The declines comment got my attention. I take my wife to work which puts me on NW 36th eastbound between Western and Santa Fe about 5:45 every morning.  Just east of Walker on 36th it's downhill toward the train tracks. Twice I've been, honestly, letting the car coast and had a police car going the opposite direction flash his red/blue lights at me. Neither one stopped me but I really watch how fast I go through there.

----------


## RadicalModerate

> Forest Park-early 80s going east on NE 36th st. There's a Stop sign. Just started raining very lightly. Hit brakes to stop and slid a little bit past the stop sign from oil  on the road. Cop sitting across street lights me up. Gives me ticket and court date. I go to court on the date on the ticket and guess what? Court closed,it was in the school I believe. Next day they had issued a warrant and suspended my drivers lic. for not paying ticket. Yes,true story no joke.


I feel ya', Bro:

Forest Park, early '80s: Eastbound on 36th. Same stop sign, full stop. In no hurry. Gently accelerated up the slight hill. Knew that the speed limit sign on the Westbound side of the street, at the top of the grade where the road leveled out, said 45 mph.

Forest Park cop, parked on the opposite shoulder (the Westbound side) pulled a U-Turn and pulled me over. Wrote me up for doing 41 in a 35.

Went to court. Sat through the entire proceeding. All the "locals'" cases dismissed. Not mine. Found Guilty of Excessive Speed. Didn't argue. Paid the fine.

Again: Beware of Forest Park. (not that I hold a grudge or anything . . . simply very clear memories of "social injustice." =~)

p.s. When the officer who wrote the ticket spoke up on my behalf saying that I was very polite during the traffic stop and also questioned the speed limit signage the hard-hearted judge paid his testimony no mind. =~)

----------


## OKCRT

> I feel ya', Bro:
> 
> Forest Park, early '80s: Eastbound on 36th. Same stop sign, full stop. In no hurry. Gently accelerated up the slight hill. Knew that the speed limit sign on the Westbound side of the street, at the top of the grade where the road leveled out, said 45 mph.
> 
> Forest Park cop, parked on the opposite shoulder (the Westbound side) pulled a U-Turn and pulled me over. Wrote me up for doing 41 in a 35.
> 
> Went to court. Sat through the entire proceeding. All the "locals'" cases dismissed. Not mine. Found Guilty of Excessive Speed. Didn't argue. Paid the fine.
> 
> Again: Beware of Forest Park. (not that I hold a grudge or anything . . . simply very clear memories of "social injustice." =~)
> ...



I still drive through there once in a while and I don't see the cops sitting there nearly as much these days. I am sure the word was out on this trap years ago. But,they are still lurking.

----------


## OKCRT

The last ticket I got was for speeding. I was headed north bound on the Hefner Parkway right where they started the road widening construction last year. So I have not entered the construction zone yet and was slowing down. The cop is sitting in the grassy median right where the construction starts and is radaring south where cars are coming into construction zone. Long story short he clocked me while I was still outside of the construction zone and wrote me up for $178.00 10 over ticket. How are you gonna argue that? A dash cam could have prob. been a good thing to have but who has the time to go to court and argue a ticket when you know it's not going to effect your insurance? Not me. So what to do, Cuss the cop a little bit and pay the ticket.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Back where I grew up--Boulder, Colorado--it was always difficult to find a parking place anywhere in the vicinity of the campus.  Once you found one, you really didn't want to move your vehicle. Many, many parking tickets were issued.  A community service, performed by voluteers, was to pull parking tickets (of complete strangers) out from under windshield wipers and dispose of them. It was common knowledge this was being done. What one could do would be to pay every 5th parking ticket received. Then, when challenged for unpaid parking tickets, one could say something like, "I pay parking tickets. Check your records. Someone must have pulled those others out from under my windshield wipers."  I'm not sure how well that would work in the modern world, but it worked well back in the day.


I've thought about doing that for other people, but I was worried that the tickets would go unnoticed and then one day they might get their car booted like what happened to me.  :Frown:

----------


## rezman

> I still drive through there once in a while and I don't see the cops sitting there nearly as much these days. I am sure the word was out on this trap years ago. But,they are still lurking.


Didn't Forest Park have a bunch of budget issues in which contributed to them loosing  their night shift patrol oficer, and then the chief  resigned and other officers quit?.

----------


## Pete

Warr Acres was notorious about these speed traps for years.

Not sure if they still are but typically these fines are a great revenue source for small municipalities.

----------


## jerrywall

The scare of my life came when I was 18... got a ticket from a park ranger down in the Wichita Mountains.  A couple of weeks go by, and a frickin Deputy US Marshal shows up at my door.  Turns out the ranger had written the wrong "due date" on my ticket, and a warrant got put out for me.  Luckily  I had the ticket, so between that and a very hasty phone call to the court clerk kept me from getting arrested that day.

----------


## jerrywall

> Not sure if they still are but typically these fines are a great revenue source for small municipalities.


I'm sure they still are... I believe state law limits them to 50% of the revenue for the city, but I'm sure these smaller municipalities ride that line as close as they can.  I'd be interested in knowing the patrol car/traffic ratio for Valleybrook for example.

----------


## kevinpate

Less than tiny little Cimarron, NM I'd wager.  They used to really roll up some coin on Scouters headed to Philmont and skiers to Angel Fire and Red River and Taos.

----------


## OKCRT

> Didn't Forest Park have a bunch of budget issues in which contributed to them loosing  their night shift patrol oficer, and then the chief  resigned and other officers quit?.


I do remember something about that. Not sure of the details but I pass through that area once or twice a month and hardly ever see the cops sitting there. Back in the 80s they were always lurking and waiting to pounce.

----------

