# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Norman >  401 Lofts (Boyd & Classen)

## BG918

I was stopped at the Boyd St. railroad crossing last night and noticed a sign up by the Mont's overflow parking lot on the northside of the street.  It had a rendering of two 3-4 story contemporary loft buildings called 401 Lofts, opening in 2010.  Does anyone know anything more about this project?  401 E. Boyd is the address of the law firm that is currently there, I assume they will tear that building down to build this.  Interesting location next to the tracks but really close to OU and across the street from the Mont.  I'll see if I can get a pic of the sign.

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## BG918

They have a website but not much information: Loft 401

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## ouguy23

I saw that as well and wanted to know what this was.  Thanks!

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## blangtang

there was a story in the norman paper a few weeks back i believe, something to do with rezoning from light office/commercial to something like medium density or high density residential.  i think its in the process of going thru planning commission and being sent on to council for approval, if it hasnt already happened.  i'd have to look for a linky link.

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## blangtang

oh and some of the most run down property is right there on boyd from the tracks toward monnett, on the north.  and monnett itself might win the campus ghetto blue star award.  maybe someone will follow this project and knock some of those shacks down

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## BG918

I'd like to see more contemporary infill projects like this in central Norman, especially around Campus Corner and downtown.

The rendering

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## LOFT401

My name is Andy Ridley, with Loft 401.  Thank you for taking notice of our project!  Our aim is to create the sleekest, coolest place to live in Norman.  Units are available for purchase.  We have demolished the site in the last few days and will begin construction soon.  Please visit LOFT401 to see floorplans, information, renderings, and my favorite, the interior rendering which shows a view from Unit 206, which shows an actual view from this unit, complete with a view of Memorial Stadium!  Please come by our showroom at 541 S. University in Campus Corner, or call me at (405) 249-4442 for additional information.

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## BG918

Good to see this project progressing.  Hopefully this is just the start of more infill developments around campus.

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## Thunder

It's okay to add the pix to the post, but it is not okay to make it a gigantic avatar.

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## ouguy23

I think its fine.

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## Nuclear_2525

Andy, is your company planning on any additional projects like this once this project gets off the ground/leased?

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## Nuclear_2525

Also, your website says "ensure the success of our endeavor to be responsibly green" but it doesn't really go into any detail about what responsibly green is for the development, could you go into more detail about this?

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## LOFT401

Good afternoon, everyone!  Thank you for your questions...

We do have plans for other projects in Norman and other urban areas but our main focus right now is Loft 401.  The units will be sold, and the one bedroom, one and a half bath units start at $149,600.  The layout, finishes et cetera will be nothing like Norman has seen (in our opinion); all while having a superb location within steps to campus corner and the University of Oklahoma.

As far as the "green" aspects to the project go, we are finalizing the plans to make sure this project has as little environmental impact as possible, as well as run efficiently.  When those plans are completed I can share more information with you.  

I apologize for the (extremely) large avatar, the site wouldn't let me edit the photo.

Again, feel free to call me (405) 249-4442 at anytime to discuss, or come by the showroom.  LOFT401

I look forward to speaking with you!  - Andy Ridley

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## Thunder

Looks a bit too high to be selling like that.  I thought those kind of living would be monthly or yearly rent.  I would pick a house with full potential front and back yards for that price.

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## LOFT401

Thunder - I understand and appreciate your perspective, however, some residents are looking to see Norman from a different view, mainly, one that overlooks campus, and provides an urban setting with restaurants and entertainment within walking distance.  This concept may be new to Norman, but we feel Norman is well overdue for something of this calibre.

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## Thunder

Yeah, it looks good.

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## AstronautJones

Are you demolishing the gas station on the corner too?  I thought it was just site of the old office building?  The marker on the map makes it look like you're taking the whole corner. 

Having tailgated along those railroad tracks for football games for years, I know how loud it is and how irritatingly often the trains come through.  Seems like that would be a hindrance to living there.  But if it's further east away from the tracks a little, that might help.

Other concerns would be if this is intended to be aimed more at students than "grown ups", if you know what I mean.  Hate to sound like an old fart but I wouldn't want to live in an apartment next to college students again.

 I guess I can't find the prices on the website.  It looks nice though!

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## john60

isn't this right next to the train tracks?  have you taken that noise issue into perspective?

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## Martin

^
i was thinking the _exact_ same thing. they look cool, though!  -M

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## LOFT401

Every issue has been taken into consideration regarding the train tracks.  

1. As far as the engineering of the building is concerned, it will be set back to the east of the property line, as well as using the parking on the west side to serve as a buffer.  An accoustical wall will line the west side of the property line to also help with this effort.

2.  The building construction itself is being built in such a way that minimizes noise levels...  I am not the architect or the builder but have been told that each joint within the building will utilize a special sealing technique that dampens sound.

3.  Will I am not promising anything, the City of Norman is working on/considering making the rail intersections "Quiet Zones," in which the train would not be permitted to "honk" its horn through the intersection.  This would take a.) installing a median at the intersection and b.) having two arms that lower as the train crosses -- already installed.  Again, I do not know the timeframe and/or the exact details of this but I do know that the city has discussed it.

4.  Most any infill project in an urban area is going to have some element of rail in proximity.  Most larger cities rely on rail service.  Acquiring land near the University is a very difficult proposition, and we feel that the location far outweighs this.

5.  Prices start in the $150's for a 1 bedroom, 1.5 bath.  If you have additional interest in pricing feel free to email me at andy@loft401.com or call (405) 249-4442 or visit the showroom 541 S. University, Norman OK.

6.  Residents, as I see it, will be a mixture of nearly every age group.  So far the reservations that have made (to secure the unit) have been from, again, every age group.  This is not built specifically for students, it's being built for anyone who desires an urban lifestyle with proximity to restaurants, shopping, entertainment, and also the University of Oklahoma.

7.  Thank you, we think they look really cool!

Everyone have a great day!! - Andy

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## BG918

> ^
> i was thinking the _exact_ same thing. they look cool, though!  -M


The eventual plan is to have a quiet zone through Norman.  I know Duffy and eventually Robinson are steps toward implementing this, hopefully Boyd is next so the train noise won't be a problem in this area.

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## kevinpate

I haven't heard anything about the convenience store going away, but unless the project wraps around it to the north, it does seem to have a footprint somewhat larger than the available space where the old office was demo'd away.

Nice concept all in all, though even without whistles I suspect the folks to the west side of the project will be aware of each train all the same.

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## LOFT401

The gas station is staying.  If you go by the site (at Boyd and Classen) you will notice that we have demo'd the entire site and will begin placing fence around the project site soon.

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## LOFT401

The site is 1.25 acres, plenty of room for the coolest place in Norman!  - Andy, LOFT401.com, (405) 249-4442

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## okyeah

> Thunder - I understand and appreciate your perspective, however, some residents are looking to see Norman from a different view, mainly, one that overlooks campus, and provides an urban setting with restaurants and entertainment within walking distance.  This concept may be new to Norman, but we feel Norman is well overdue for something of this calibre.


overlooks campus?? that thing/drawing/picture looks about 3 stories tall.  all you're going to see are views of The Mont, railroad tracks, and the engineering buildings. I lived in the OU dorms/towers (12 stories) my freshman year in college and my room had a view of the football field..!!

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## LOFT401

OKYEAH-  Actually, you're incorrect.  If you go to LOFT401, you will see an interior rendering from the SECOND FLOOR on the "LOFTS" page - which will be the first floor and lowest level of units.  You will see that in the background a plain view of the stadium is clearly visible.  Again, THIS IS FROM THE SECOND FLOOR... 3rd and 4th floor residents will get an even better angle of the city/campus.  As hard as we tried, President Boren wasn't open to letting us build on campus land  :Smile:

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## LOFT401

Just to clarify, we never tried to build these on campus land... Was only kidding.  Keep the questions/comments coming!  Everyone stay dry today!

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## metro

> Looks a bit too high to be selling like that.  I thought those kind of living would be monthly or yearly rent.  I would pick a house with full potential front and back yards for that price.


That's a good price compared to the lofts and condo's selling downtown. You have to remember, with this style of living you're buying a lifestyle, not a yard.

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## Luke

So, I thought avatars were limited to 100x100?

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## Thunder

> So, I thought avatars were limited to 100x100?


I guess his case is an exception.  He's only posting in this thread for his project.  :Ohno:

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## LOFT401

I attempted to resize the avatar but was unable to... I apologize if this is an annoyance...

And "metro" nailed it, this is a lifestyle you are buying into... This is not the conventional "home" living experience, rather, this is an urban environment located just blocks from campus and entertainment, as well as having all the amenities of an exclusive condominium project.

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## Thunder

Here is the smaller size.  Height is 100 and the width is 181.  You can upload that one, if you want, that way you can also discuss many other topics without the huge avatar.

It is a nice place, not for me, but still is a nice place.  When will it be done?

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## BG918

> I attempted to resize the avatar but was unable to... I apologize if this is an annoyance...
> 
> And "metro" nailed it, this is a lifestyle you are buying into... This is not the conventional "home" living experience, rather, this is an urban environment located just blocks from campus and entertainment, as well as having all the amenities of an exclusive condominium project.


And also right next to a convenience store AND the Mont!  That location is very attractive in Norman IF you can get past the train horn as it blows through Boyd (at least until the quiet zone is implemented).

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## LOFT401

The project is scheduled for completion Summer 2010.

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## LOFT401

Here is an actual view from Unit 206... Pretty amazing.

link

Please let me know if you have any questions...

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## kevinpate

Link did not post.

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## Martin

link fixed...  -M

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## BrockLanders

I had friends live at the Edge for a couple years and the train was never an issue there, at least when we were indoors.

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## blangtang

loft, what other property did you consider for this project?  i know u joked about on campus, but what other sides of campus were you looking into, if at all?

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## LOFT401

Administrator - thank you for repairing the link.

Blangtang - While we are considering other projects for the future, I'm sure you can understand that we cannot reveal our trade secrets (and future locations) until everything is wrapped up.  I can tell you that we do have plans for future projects for the area.  Stay tuned, and keep the buzz going about LOFT 401!  Thanks to all of you.  - Andy

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## OUman

^So that's what this is, I ride my bike frequently by this area. I like the floor-to-ceiling glass and the modern-European interiors. This will definitely add a new style of living to Norman, looks very nice.

Just a quick question, is a storm room or safe shelter area going to be included within the complex? This is in tornado alley after all. Also, is the glass you'll be using of a stronger type? I was wondering about what might happen if we got a storm with 60mph+ winds and baseball sized hail.

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## LOFT401

OUman-

Thank you for the questions.  While we do not have plans for a dilineated storm room, I can tell you that considering the parking garage will be made of concrete this would be the obvious place to take shelter with any impending storms.--The parking garage also happens to be the lowest place in the development.

As far as the glass within the project goes, it will be of high quality, damage resistent glass.  I do not the exact specifications but when I get them I will let you know.  Thanks again, feel free to ask any questions anytime.

The reservations are coming in, so act quickly!  Only 35 units total!  -- Quite a few less than that now.  Please call me to take a tour of the showroom if you would like to see the finishes.  Andy (405) 249-4442

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## OUman

^Ahh ok, thanks! Good to know about the glass too.

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## metro

> ^So that's what this is, I ride my bike frequently by this area. I like the floor-to-ceiling glass and the modern-European interiors. This will definitely add a new style of living to Norman, looks very nice.
> 
> Just a quick question, is a storm room or safe shelter area going to be included within the complex? This is in tornado alley after all. Also, is the glass you'll be using of a stronger type? I was wondering about what might happen if we got a storm with 60mph+ winds and baseball sized hail.


How many severe tornadoes have hit the OU Campus? This is no different than the condos in Downtown OKC, or the skyscrapers with several hundred feet of glass from ground to 500ft.

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## LOFT401

Thank you for your input, Metro!

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## LOFT401

Ladies and Gentlemen...

We are hosting an open house tomorrow from 4-7PM at our sales office.  Please come by and take a look at our finish options, as well as enjoy drinks and hors d'ouvres!  We look forward to seeing anyone who can attend.

Sincerely - Loft401 Sales Team

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## metro

Weird to have an open house on a Thursday afternoon.

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## ouguy23

why not Thursday night!? I'll be there

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## blangtang

> The project is scheduled for completion Summer 2010.



I went by today.  Looks like a dirt overflow parking lot for the Mont.  There was a sign though.  The old building is gone as well.

Maybe they need to pre-sell 1/3 or 1/2 of the units to proceed.  Not gonna be completed by summer 2010.  

Hope they still get it done, Norman needs more infill like this!

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## OUman

> How many severe tornadoes have hit the OU Campus? This is no different than the condos in Downtown OKC, or the skyscrapers with several hundred feet of glass from ground to 500ft.


Well it just takes one, doesn't matter how many have or have not hit campus. When building anything of a vertical nature (with that much glass) you have to take into account that this is tornado alley after all, and contrary to the urban myth, Norman can be hit by tornadoes, I believe Mother Nature  proved that very clearly in June. It's a legitimate question. And I have seen what baseball sized hail can do firsthand, it's not pretty.

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## LOFT401

Finalized rendering available at LOFT401 !!!  Please take a look at what we believe will be an amazing addition to the area.  Feel free to call us with any questions.  (405) 249-4442.

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## Pete

These look really slick and a I love the location.

Easy access to campus, Campus Corner, Amtrak station and the reemerging downtown area.  The new McNellies (120 e. main) could really kick things off there.

Lots of other universities have similar developments and it's a mix of students, young professionals and alums that want a place near the action, especially for games.


Personally, the train noise wouldn't be a big issue.  After all, these are lofts and that might even add to the urban feel.

Congrats on a great project!  Looking forward to seeing the sales office when I'm in town in a couple of months.

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## LOFT401

Thank you Pete!  We look forward to meeting you in person and appreciate the kind words.

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## Jeopardude

> The new McNellies (120 e. main) could really kick things off there.


It's going to be at 121 E. Main.

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## Thunder

Really nice.  I noticed that the units is selling quite quickly.  How many was sold thru advertisement on here?

One thing that I noticed in a pix was the size of the tv surrounded by shelves.  What if someone have/want a bigger tv?

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## Jeopardude

These look great and I hope they start more of these on Boyd west of these too. That are needs renovation bad.

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## blangtang

I counted 8 out of 36 as being 'sold'.  No idea how often the website is updated.  

I wonder if they'll just build it and rent out the other units.

I hope the project works.

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## king183

I really like the look of these and think they're a great idea.  I'm actually considering buying one.  But I am worried about some of the stuff people on here have already mentioned (e.g., the train).  Also, a gas station will be located directly east of it on a bordering property. It constantly smells like gasoline, which would be a downside to anyone buying a terrace or loft on the east side that borders the gas station.

I agree with Jeopardude that the properties west of it on Boyd need a major upgrade and units like these would be a great addition.

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## king183

I will add that I think another upside to these will be the very close location to the Porter Avenue revitalization (if it ever happens).

It also appears that the semi-run down neighborhood directly to the location's north is getting a lot of work done. I think some house flippers are fixing up a lot of the properties and making them look substantially better.

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## lasomeday

The Porter Avenue revitilization is in the works.  It is a process with the government that takes time to get the funding through.  It has to be brought up for public debate so many times yada yada yada.

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## blangtang

I agree, the porter/classen area is redeveloping.  

check this:

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The Porter Avenue Corridor Project area extends from Castro Street on the south to Haddock Street on the north, between Findlay Avenue on the east and nearly to Peters Avenue to the west.
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also check this:

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Council, by a vote of 5-3, approved an amended resolution declaring an "administrative delay" for a period of 12 months on the acceptance of all applications for building, demolition, paving, platting and rezoning activities in the Porter Avenue Corridor Project area.
http://www.normantranscript.com/arch...tory_224011549
----

okay, granted, this area is a few blocks north of the condo project, there is a new/altered land use planning project going on.  

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oh and another thing, i was looking at the 401 loft website, and it has 3 tiers of pricing.  the website says it will raise prices as it goes from one tier to the next.  

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I'm still wondering if the thing will break ground, let alone be done by summer '10.

 :053:

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## Jeopardude

> That are needs renovation bad.


Me write English good.  :Redface:

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## LOFT401

Loft 401 will be located at 401 E. Boyd, hence the name LOFT 401.  The sales are going great!  A lot of people are taking advantage of the "preconstruction pricing," and yes, you are correct, prices will be going up once construction begins.  If anyone has any questions please feel free to call us at (405) 249-4442.  Thanks!

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## king183

Loft401, any estimate on when construction will begin?  It seems like it's getting late for the Summer '10 completion date to work.

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## LOFT401

We are slated for later in the month September.  Thanks for your question!

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## OUman

I ride my bike by there often and the Mont's overflow parking is now closed, they have started site preparation.

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## LOFT401

Yes sir, OUman, we have!  Get excited everyone!

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## blangtang

pile of mud, with a chain link fence.  not gonna be done by next summer

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## LOFT401

I wanted to get everyone updated...  We had our official groundbreaking last Thursday, and will begin working on the site this week!  Expect to see structure coming out of the ground in the next 30-45 days!  We will keep everyone posted with photos etc, but feel free to visit us at our sales office, 541 S. University in Campus Corner.  LOFT401

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## john60

> I wanted to get everyone updated...  We had our official groundbreaking last Thursday, and will begin working on the site this week!  Expect to see structure coming out of the ground in the next 30-45 days!  We will keep everyone posted with photos etc, but feel free to visit us at our sales office, 541 S. University in Campus Corner.  LOFT401


When do you think the project will be finished?

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## LOFT401

We are looking at 12 months from now.

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## Jersey Boss

Nothing like the ambiance of a BNSF train shaking the walls 12 times a day.

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## ChargerAg

i bet it is alot more then 12.

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## kevinpate

> i bet it is alot more then 12.


Double it, and then add a few, and that's just for the trains.  If memory serves, we have 26+ daily passthroughs in Norman.  

Me, I like trains.  I don't live within spitting distance from the tracks, but I'm not much farther out from them.  

I do enjoy when the trains come through.  However, they are so common, I concede I really don't always notice them.

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## gen70

I once lived across the street from the Mont and behind that liquor store.  I could truly throw a rock from the back door and hit a train.  If I was on the phone when a train went by I had to either wait until the train had passed or hang up. The walls and windows shook.  At first it was very annoying but, after awhile I got used to it and even slept thru all the racket. Now..this little house was old and had no insulation. I don't think the train noise would be so bad at the "401".

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## Spartan

> Nothing like the ambiance of a BNSF train shaking the walls 12 times a day.


This project is surrounded by a fairly decent residential neighborhood. Think the trains are any quieter for all of the professors living on quiet, shady residential streets across Classen? Doubt it.

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## BG918

Once Norman has its quiet zone implemented the train noise will be less noticeable.  I'm not sure when that will be though.

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## LOFT401

Our understanding is that the City has approved the "quiet zone" and are currently working out the logistics of it all.  Bear in mind that we have hired an accoustical engineer to take into account any noise transmission, sound deadening, deflection and dampening.  I lived across from the Sooner Theatre on Main St. for 3 years and loved it.

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## LOFT401

Here's a construction update:  We are currently working on a very large retaining wall on the East side of the lot, and will begin piering in about 30 days, so expect to see structure going up very soon!  Presales are going amazingly, we want to thank all of those who share our vision.  Please call us if you haven't been by the sales office.  LOFT401 (405) 249-4442

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## lasomeday

Drove by today and saw all the dirt work going on. I can't wait to see it start to take shape.

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## LOFT401

Spoke with the general contractor today (of Stratera Construction - GC of the project), he stated that weather permitting, piers will begin to be installed in 3 weeks... Then we will all start to see the structure coming out of the ground and serious progress being made.  Feel free to email me to get on our monthly newsletter.We will keep everyone posted!

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## Fishstick1979

Anymore updates, LOFT401? 

At what point will unit prices go up?

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## LOFT401

Thanks for the question, Fish Sticks...  We actually just had 60 trailer-loads of dirt delivered late this week to set up the for the building pads (and finishing site prep).  Soon you will see the scale of the building footprints.  Shortly after the pads are set start looking for piers and columns to go up!  We are VERY close to going vertical!  Very exciting, but this weather has us a little delayed in getting the process along... But nothing we can't overcome to stay on schedule I'm told.  Keep the questions coming, and as always, feel free to call us at the sales office.  (405) 249-4442

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## LOFT401

A sneak-peak into next month's newsletter:  "Note From General Contractor: site grading is complete and we are preparing to start the drilling operation of +/- (80) structural concrete piers. These piers will be approximately 30 feet deep and will support the forthcoming building construction upon the underlying bedrock “strata”. We expect this phase of the construction operation to take about (3) weeks. From then forward, the building construction will start to go “vertical” and begin to be visible to passers-by!........Dale R. Diercks, President, Stratera Construction, LLC"

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## LOFT401

Pier installation being completed today!  Above-grade work will begin, which will mean structure is soon to follow...  To keep posted, check this blog frequently!  - LOFT401 Sales Team

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## Dar405301

LOFT401, will you be posting pics periodically?

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## LOFT401

We are trying to figure out how to do so on this site without having to post them on the internet.  You are more than welcome to register on our website LOFT401 to receive photos that way... We are on top of this and will do what we can to get this figured out!  Thank you for your patience.

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## G.Walker

Nice lofts for Norman, this is a big step for our upscale residential community.

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## istilldon'tgetit

Loft401, i appreciate your abundant use of exclamation points. However, i worry that the Norman "Quiet Zone" is more a pipedream than reality. The idea that the BNSF and NTSB will instruct their engineers to NOT blow a warning horn at the very dangerous and outdated Boyd St. crossing just so Steve Owens, et al can enjoy a game-day party pad in relative quiet, well, it's seems a little dubious to me. Can you please show where the city planners and the railroad have agreed to this?

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## blangtang

I saw they recently tore down some houses on Monnett, near Duffy, it looks like the same group (but not the 401 Loft group) owns about 6 adjacent houses on what would be a sizable lot.  Maybe 401 Lofts is about to get a trend started?  Just speculation on my part.

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## JC73

Indeed the "quiet zone" is a pipe dream.  The City of Norman began investigating this option nearly 2 years ago...I still hear that train a comin'.  

I had high hopes upon hearing about the lofts...but alas, it's just another Commons, Edge, or whatever you want to call it with a gate and a pool.  How about some originality for once in this town.  If the "quite zone" is real, how about developing some old industrial sites in core Norman?  Now that's a loft I would live in.

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## ouguy23

Why are you guys hating on this?! How about you pony up the money and build something that you want. Don't insult what they are trying to do. geez

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## istilldon'tgetit

Err... with all do respect, OUguy, it is because TheLoft is asking us to pay 150k to live RIGHT NEXT to the railroad tracks, (whilst I live near the same tracks, within walking distance to the exact same resrataunts for $6k per year) W/O ANY gaurantee that the ever-present Norman train will be quited at 3:15 AM, or convincing their potential market that they have done due diligence on this matter.
We all love and romanticize the train here in Norman, however, few of us plan to pay such a high price for the privilege over 30 years. My point is, maybe this ad is better placed on St.LouisTalk.com,or some such place.  

lastly, i don't need a smug lecture on what "upscale urban living" entails, especially when it sounds A LOT like "poor-ass east side living".

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## rcjunkie

NEWS FLASH--if you don't like what they are offering, don't buy, if you do like what they are offering, give them a call. No need to get your Hanes in a wad over something so trivial.

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## JC73

Hanes in a wad?  I have no idea what that means.  You're right, if I don't like it, I won't buy into it.  But that's not the point.  The point is runaway development in this city is costing everyone.  Not necessarily in actual dollars, but the community suffers each time a developer swoops in with a "great idea" to make money.  This is the root of all problems in the modern world.  So, as OUguy suggests, I am putting my money down, for real, sustainable, enjoyable, quality living.  Not some game day condos for the ultra rich, that's certainly not what Norman needs.

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## istilldon'tgetit

Fair enough, rc. But it's not just a matter of what i buy or don't buy. When affordable residential and commercial spaces in central Norman continue to be demolished and actual students are left with no options other than the giant (very expensive) apartment complexes and regular folks continue to be priced out of rents and buying options, well, it just doesn't sit well with me. That being said, i do support people bringing new ideas and visions to this town and hope that the lofts are the begining of an exciting archectual and commercial boom. I just hope there is something left of Old Norman when it's done.

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## metro

401 can we get any pics yet?

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## Spartan

It's going up. They don't have a lot of it, but just give it a few weeks. I'll take some pics myself next time I go eat at The Mont..

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## blangtang

> When affordable residential and commercial spaces in central Norman continue to be demolished and actual students are left with no options other than the giant (very expensive) apartment complexes and regular folks continue to be priced out of rents and buying options, well, it just doesn't sit well with me.


From what I've been able to glean paying attention to city workings, the unspoken plan between OU with its recently increasing student population and the city of Norman is to allow giant multi-story residential units aimed at the college crowd to be built to the south and southeast of campus.  Witness OU Traditions, Campus Bungalows down by hiway 9, that new apartment/golf development south of hiway 9 by cedar lane, etc.  I'm sure there are others...

The plan is to run low-end college kids away from core Norman and let OU develop that stuff across from the Duck Pond.  Rumors of a retirement cottage neighborhood.  And to let the core close-in neighborhoods become filled with affluent alumni parents of OU children/game day enthusiasts/rent queens(!)/single families etc...

don't believe me, check out what they are getting for "lofts" near campus and downtown : 
Magnolia Apartments -::- Native Roots

I'm trying to get a digi camera to take pics of the damn 401 one of these days if there aint some other person with a cam out there!

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## rcjunkie

> Fair enough, rc. But it's not just a matter of what i buy or don't buy. When affordable residential and commercial spaces in central Norman continue to be demolished and actual students are left with no options other than the giant (very expensive) apartment complexes and regular folks continue to be priced out of rents and buying options, well, it just doesn't sit well with me. That being said, i do support people bringing new ideas and visions to this town and hope that the lofts are the begining of an exciting archectual and commercial boom. I just hope there is something left of Old Norman when it's done.


Nothing was demolished to make way for this project, again if you don't like this project, theres several choices in the immediate area.

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## blangtang

there was an older 2 story house that may have been a law firm iirc that was razed and otherwise the overflow parking lot for the Mont.  This project will be an improvement nonetheless, that is if they actually get it finished!

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## Mr T

Do you mean the mustardy house behind the big evergreens?  If so, I thought it was owned by Professor I-can't-remember, a David Ross Boyd Professor of something.  Darn this middle-aged brain!

I think the various housing topics being discussed here are important.  I do think housing should have its own thread.  This one is topic-specific.  Norman housing in general, central Norman, OU housing, party houses in residential neighborhoods - all of these are viable topics, just not here, I think.

----------


## Spartan

> From what I've been able to glean paying attention to city workings, the unspoken plan between OU with its recently increasing student population and the city of Norman is to allow giant multi-story residential units aimed at the college crowd to be built to the south and southeast of campus.  Witness OU Traditions, Campus Bungalows down by hiway 9, that new apartment/golf development south of hiway 9 by cedar lane, etc.  I'm sure there are others...
> 
> The plan is to run low-end college kids away from core Norman and let OU develop that stuff across from the Duck Pond.  Rumors of a retirement cottage neighborhood.  And to let the core close-in neighborhoods become filled with affluent alumni parents of OU children/game day enthusiasts/rent queens(!)/single families etc...
> 
> don't believe me, check out what they are getting for "lofts" near campus and downtown : 
> Magnolia Apartments -::- Native Roots
> 
> I'm trying to get a digi camera to take pics of the damn 401 one of these days if there aint some other person with a cam out there!


It's a vision that will be interesting to see Norman obtain. A lot of college towns, including Stillwater, are actually ahead of Norman in terms of sending the low-end student housing further out and replacing the closer-in housing with upscale-only development.

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## LOFT401

**Updated Photos to be Regularly Posted on our Facebook Page**  Login | Facebook

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## JC73

Well, after approaching the City of Norman about the proposed "quiet zone" and getting no answer I contacted BNSF directly.  Here is the response:

**************************************************  *******
Good Morning Karen,

I have not received any proposals from the City of Norman at this time. Should I hear of any proposed quiet zones within the City limits, I will be sure to share that with you. If you have any further questions, please feel free to give me a call. 


Thanks, Kamie Minor| BNSF Railway | Public Projects Manager- KS, NM, OK 
| * kamalah.minor@bnsf.com | * 913-551-4484 | **913-551-4285 
**************************************************  *******

I think it's safe to say that the horn will continue to blow and the sales representatives at 401 Lofts are misleading Norman residents, what a shame.

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## Mr T

I would bet the City itself is misleading residents, including the loft folks.  If you type "quiet zone" into the Transcript site you get several articles.  The City is "investigating."  The City is "checking it out."  The City is "seeing what would be involved."

The articles say that the City will need to make official requests and actually do things.  Apparently they are still in the "checking it out" phase, unless the railroad has lost our applications.

It's like when the government was giving out stimulus money for rail, and folk thought Norman had been working on proposals for years to get the train between OKC and Norman back.  Ha ha ha,,, erm, excuse me, I meant...Ha ha ha!!!  Apparently we had been "investigating" again, instead of actually working.

Mayor Rosenthal was SHOCKED at the complexities of the grant forms!  We had NO idea!!  We were so not ready it is sickening.

Not to worry - the mayor said it was a "wake-up call" and next time we will be ready!!  Next time what?  Next time the economy collapses?

Thank God for our marvelous Destination Shopping.

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## blangtang

"By law, an engineer operating a train traveling 60 mph or less must sound a whistle 15 seconds before the lead car passes through a crossing. The whistle has to start a quarter mile ahead of the crossing if the train is traveling faster than 60 mph.

Norman has 17 at-grade crossings, which means a fast train may have to blow its whistle continuously as it passes through the city to comply with federal regulations, traffic engineer Angelo Lombardo said."

more in the article

Read more: Train whistles disrupt residents, set the dogs to howling | NewsOK.com

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## JC73

The article is informative, however, Jane Glenn Cannon (author), Tulsa has already successfully implemented a quiet zone.  And you know what?  Downtown is thriving.  People and businesses are moving back in, go figure.

I realize it takes time and money to bring the remaining crossings in Norman up to scratch, perhaps they need to be made a higher priority (according to Lombardo it's not).

The original purpose of this post was to point out that if anyone from 401 Lofts tells you the train will be quiet, it's not true.

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## istilldon'tgetit

Well stated, JC. However, i do think that WE ARE ALL AT THE SAME PLACE HERE, i.e. let's bring in the development, bring on the inovation and growth that is part and parcel of an up and coming community. Let's do it all for this town that we love/have a vested economic intrest in, but let us do it with our eyes wide open, while sitting down at the "grown-ups table". NOT with our fingers over our eyes, our hand over our mouth and a pillow over our ears!

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## blangtang

I went and looked at the site today.  Its got rebar shooting up skyward out of the ground and looks ready for concrete soon.  I couldn't figure where the pool would be, the site looks kind of cramped with the layout of the rebar currently.  oh well.  best wishes!

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## LOFT401

I appreciate everyone's comments... 

Please understand that we are not in the business of misleading anyone.  We were and still are of the understanding that the city of Norman is pursuing the quiet zone and we will do everything we can to assist in the process to help expedite the completion of a quiet zone at the intersection of of Boyd and Classen.  Of course, we are at the mercy of the city but we support their efforts and believe the quiet zone will be accomplished, although we are not knowlegable of when it will be completed.  We have never promised that this would be completed but the information we have received from the city is promising that it will one day be completed.  Our fingers are crossed.  

We are committed to building a first-class, beautiful condiminium project that will compliment Norman's landscape.  Should anyone have any questions or concerns, please call us at (405) 249-4442.

The site is changing daily, concrete work is going well and we are working diligently to get this building off the ground!  We appreciate everyone's support.

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## Spartan

> "By law, an engineer operating a train traveling 60 mph or less must sound a whistle 15 seconds before the lead car passes through a crossing. The whistle has to start a quarter mile ahead of the crossing if the train is traveling faster than 60 mph.
> 
> Norman has 17 at-grade crossings, which means a fast train may have to blow its whistle continuously as it passes through the city to comply with federal regulations, traffic engineer Angelo Lombardo said."
> 
> more in the article
> 
> Read more: Train whistles disrupt residents, set the dogs to howling | NewsOK.com


Freight trains do not travel that fast in urbanized regions such as straight through Norman.

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## JC73

Fingers crossed?  I sure hope that's not how development in Norman will continue.  How about fact checking and not relying on rumor and innuendo.

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## Mr T

We don't/can't know what Loft-person was told by the mayor, just as with Henry Baskeyfield, who withdrew the union support of Ezell only to have his workers cut after the election.  What did she tell Baskeyfield and Loft-person?

The mayor writes a lot of checks she can't, or has no intention, of covering.

Trying to find out real facts in this town is like pulling mammoth-teeth.  You will know what you need to know when David Boren tells Cindy it is OK and she tells Andy Reiger.

Loft-person is very likely ripping his hair out and cursing himself for trusting her.  He can't say that, though, because he still needs Norman to sign off on all of the inspections.

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## blangtang

I rode my bicycle by the site this evening, and in the three weeks or so that have passed since my last bike-by, the rebar sticking out of the ground now has squarish concrete surrounding it.  Max height of the concrete forms would be maybe 10 feet.  pretty sluggish progress is how i'd characterize the project.  i stopped at the C-store next door and asked the gent working the register about the project next door and he told me they were to be apartments, but what does he know...!

it'll be nice to see them actually put more concrete down...at this point i'd be surprised if they are ready by summer 2011.

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## LOFT401

Blangtang-  Thanks for checking out the site.  The weather has really made things tough for us, but look for about 6 more weeks of concrete work.  Then the framing above the podium begins, which will progress very quickly.

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## warreng88

Loft-condos under way in Norman
By Brianna Bailey
Journal Record

NORMAN – Developer and architect Mark Risser is counting on well-to-do Sooner fans to buy luxury condominiums at his Loft401 development overlooking Oklahoma Memorial Stadium in Norman.

The 35-unit, $5.8 million complex at Classen Boulevard and E. Boyd Street is under construction and slated for completion in spring 2011.

Now based in Dallas, Risser grew up in Norman and is a graduate of the University of Oklahoma’s College of Architecture. He came up with the idea of bringing urban-style dwellings to Norman after living in a loft on E. Main Street in Norman. There was a waiting list of people who wanted to get in the door of the building, Risser said.

“Norman has never had any type of loft-condo development and people are always looking to be closer to campus,” Risser said.

Set on 1.25 acres a few blocks from Campus Corner, the 52,000-square-foot, four-level complex will have parking on the ground floor and feature one- to three-bedroom units priced in the $150,000-to-$250,000 range.

In a chilly lending climate when similar projects have struggled to get financing, Loft401 benefited from strong pre-sales. Risser had 12 of the condos sold before securing construction financing for the project. Now 18 of the units are under contract or reserved.

“We developed a concept we could go out and test the market and make sure the buyers would be receptive to the product and the price,” Risser said.

The lofts feature black oak floors, 10-foot ceilings and stainless steel appliances. Balcony units at the development will have views of Oklahoma Memorial Stadium.

A wide range of buyers have been attracted to lofts, said Andy Ridley, who is part of the sales team for the Loft401 development.

“They are everyone from parents of OU students to game-day buyers who will be there a few days a year to people right out of college who want a cool, unique place to live,” Ridley said. “What we’re trying to do is create something in Norman that caters to people who have an affinity to Norman and want to be closer to Campus Corner and all of the things that Norman has to provide.”

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## blangtang

I would like to live in a condo near OU, but not next to the tracks.

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## BG918

> I would like to live in a condo near OU, but not next to the tracks.


Same here.  A condo tower further west by Campus Corner overlooking campus would be a big hit.

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## Spartan

It sounds like this project has been a hit, too. 18/35 units already sold and not even close to completion.. not bad at all. Good job, LOFT401. I love how you guys have come back to Norman to help give back to the community that this guy went to school in. This stretch of Boyd from 12th over to Flood is IMO the best street in all of Oklahoma, and getting better all the time.

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## metro

LOFT401, can we get some pics yet?

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## king183

I checked into getting one of these awhile back.  They told me they would be completed by August 2010.  I'm glad I didn't buy, at least on that bit of information, because it doesn't look like they'll be completed until August 2011.

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## LOFT401

Please check out our facebook page for updated photos...  With the blog down a while ago we haven't been checking in.  But we're back, and construction is fully underway.  Hope to see some of you guys at our tailgate tomorrow at 541 S. University, in Campus Corner.

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## Pete

Great to see this project going forward!

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## ou48A

> I saw *they recently tore down some houses on Monnett, near Duffy,* it looks like the same group (but not the 401 Loft group) owns about 6 adjacent houses on what would be a sizable lot.  Maybe 401 Lofts is about to get a trend started?  Just speculation on my part.


I was told about the pending demolition of homes in this area in the fall of 2009. This person told me they would be building apartments. I am curious to know more about when and what type of apartments they might be building.
The entire area south of Duffy, east of Monnet and north of Boyd seems very ripe for demolition and reconstruction. If they are selling folks on the idea that this area/location is within walking distance of various amenities I sure hope the old sidewalks in this entire area get reconstructed.

Eventually I could see OU trying to buy up any land they can south of Boyd, east of Jenkins all the way to Brooks

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## BG918

> Eventually I could see OU trying to buy up any land they can south of Boyd, east of Jenkins all the way to Brooks


That would be smart because if a commuter rail line is built from OKC there will likely be a station at either Boyd or Brooks.  Denser residential development is perfect for that area, with OU main campus expansion taking place on the parking lots along Jenkins from Boyd to Lindsey.

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## ou48A

I just drove down Monnet and the area in question just south of Duffy on the east side of Monnet is in the early stages of building a foundation footing, but I couldn’t tell much more than that.


As I drove by the 401 lofts looked like they have the first floor of concrete mostly built but they still have a lot of work left to do. 
Ironically a train passed by as I was there.
I like spending time outdoors, this would be way too noisy for my taste.

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## ou48A

> That would be smart because if a commuter rail line is built from OKC there will likely be a station at either Boyd or Brooks.  Denser residential development is perfect for that area, with OU main campus expansion taking place on the parking lots along Jenkins from Boyd to Lindsey.


OU should consider buying up the property in this area as it naturally becomes available. They could rent out the property using a property management CO. until they have enough land to build parking lots and buildings. OU could eventually donate this or other nearby land for a commuter rail station

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## dankrutka

How are there no updates on this project in over 9 months?!? This is maybe the most exciting project in Norman b/c there is nothing like it in town...

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## BG918

Hopefully there will be more projects like this in the campus area.  

I have heard there is a proposal for similar condos to be built where the athletic dorms are currently at Lindsey & Jenkins once the Sooner Center is finished across the street.  A tower would be built on that site with a hotel and condos.  I haven't seen anything official though.

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## dankrutka

> Hopefully there will be more projects like this in the campus area.  
> 
> I have heard there is a proposal for similar condos to be built where the athletic dorms are currently at Lindsey & Jenkins once the Sooner Center is finished across the street.  A tower would be built on that site with a hotel and condos.  I haven't seen anything official though.


Would the University own them? A tower in that location would do awesome! With that location, they could charge anything they want during football weekends. That would be awesome.

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## OUman

Construction is going on rather rapidly on the 401 Lofts, they look finished from the outside, I don't know about the inside though. The other day they were finishing making the driveway and parking areas.

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## Dekoung

> Would the University own them? A tower in that location would do awesome! With that location, they could charge anything they want during football weekends. That would be awesome.


I think it would be great for OU retired alums who want to live in Norman near the (particularly the stadium)but don't want hassle of house, etc.  There are plenty of alums who could afford premium prices.

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## BG918

> I think it would be great for OU retired alums who want to live in Norman near the (particularly the stadium)but don't want hassle of house, etc.  There are plenty of alums who could afford premium prices.


Agree.  Lots of other college towns already have these types of developments.

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## Pete

And college towns in general are great for retirees because they are usually so walkable with tons of cultural, social and athletic events.

I know Boren really sees the importance of keeping alums close, so I'm sure this will eventually happen.

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## ou48A

There will probably be a few wealthy OU people who buy into the lofts so they will have a place to stay during OU events. 
I have always thought that a small but high end hotel would do well if it was located very near campus and within 
walking distance of campus corner.

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## JimTrabersColostomyBag

I heard the location of the old Parkview Apartments (across from the duck pond) was going to be an alum/retiree community.

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## LOFT401

Well I haven't checked in here for a while but thought I'd let everyone know we have closings scheduled starting for at the end of next week!  Residents will enjoy the fantastic amenities and finishes of LOFT401 very soon.  We invite anyone to call us to schedule a tour of the project... We will of course be around on game days as well if you'd like to drop by.  The interior of the project is even better than the exterior!  Feel free to call us at (405) 249-4442 or visit our website at www.LOFT401.com

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## SOONER8693

A woman I teach with at Westmoore has a sister that is closing on one of the units on the top floor. She/they are very excited about closing and getting in.

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## yukong

The Lofts look nice, but there is no way I would live there.  They are practically sitting on the BNSF mainline.  I know they say they have put sound dampening in to help abate the train noise, but I cannot believe it would help that much.  There are dozens of trains through there every day, all hours of the day.  Being right there by a major crossing, the trains will be blowing their horns and then the roar of the engines will be so loud.  I office in the Norman Financial Center, (formally the Vista Building, or as I like to call it...The Leaning Tower of Vista) and I hear every train that comes through town as they cross Gray and then Main.  And we are about 2 blocks away.  I cannot imagine what it will be like sitting right there on the tracks.

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## dankrutka

I've just never found train noise to be a big deal. I lived about 1/3rd of a block from where the Lofts are and I never woke up once because of the train going through. But I'm also a deep sleeper.

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## bluedogok

I'm a block and a half from the main N/S Union Pacific line that runs through Austin and I rarely hear the trains, even the horns and I am not the deep sleeper that I used to be. I lived in the east end of one of the duplexes by Danforth & Fretz and really only heard them when I had the back door open.

There are many ways to build sound control into exterior walls and fenestration, it is much easier to do it from the start than it is to add on later. For the most part an office building as old as The Vista was designed in a way where they never worried about outside noise control.

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## metro

Geez, anyone got pics of this place yet? You Norman people represent.....

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## rcjunkie

> Geez, anyone got pics of this place yet? You Norman people represent.....


www.loft401.com

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## ou48A

I hope the fix the city sidewalks near the 401 Lofts. 
They have been in very poor shape for many years

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## venture

> Geez, anyone got pics of this place yet? You Norman people represent.....


Get in the car and drive down? :-P

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## king183

Living a block away from the train, while close, is very different from literally being 25 feet away from the train, which is where Loft 401 is.  If you've ever been to the Mont when the train comes by and sounds its whistle, you know how annoying it is--you can barely hear yourself talk when it goes by. 

If they finally get that intersection to be a quiet zone, it will be substantially better.  But they've (Loft 401) been saying that's going to be a quiet zone for over two years (they told me back in 2009 that it would be a quiet zone by August 2010), so I'm not holding my breath.

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## BG918

> Living a block away from the train, while close, is very different from literally being 25 feet away from the train, which is where Loft 401 is.  If you've ever been to the Mont when the train comes by and sounds its whistle, you know how annoying it is--you can barely hear yourself talk when it goes by. 
> 
> If they finally get that intersection to be a quiet zone, it will be substantially better.  But they've (Loft 401) been saying that's going to be a quiet zone for over two years (they told me back in 2009 that it would be a quiet zone by August 2010), so I'm not holding my breath.


Don't they just need to add different gates like they have done at the Duffy crossing?  Is the project funded?  Robinson will be taken care of with the underpass, and eventually Lindsey will have an underpass too so it will be down to Acres, Gray, Main, Eufaula, Boyd and Brooks as the remaining non-quiet crossings in central Norman.  Hopefully it will all be a quiet zone someday.

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## dankrutka

Do people live here now? I've seen cars parked in the garage, but can't tell if they are for residents.

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## MDot

> Do people live here now? I've seen cars parked in the garage, but can't tell if they are for residents.


I didn't even know they were complete. *sigh*

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## LOFT401

We have several residents living in LOFT 401 now, with closings scheduled every week for the next few weeks.  We have a handful of units left!  Check us out:  www.loft401.com or call (405) 922-5144

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## LOFT401

OPEN HOUSE!!  Please come by the LOFT401 site located at 401 E. Boyd in Norman this Saturday before the game.  From 11:30 - 2 we will be hosting a poolside party, catered by The Greens Country Club.  Music and tours of the site and units as well.  OPEN TO THE PUBLIC!  Come see what LOFT401 has to offer!  www.LOFT401.com

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## MDot

I haven't seen this place in person yet so I may come check it out.

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## BG918

I hope it's a success.  Norman needs more developments like this in the campus area.

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## dankrutka

Are these completely done? How many units are leased?

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## LOFT401

Construction is on-going but looks to be finished within 60-90 days.  We have closed on several units and continue to schedule closings as units are finishing up.  They are for sale, KilgoreTrout.  If you are interested please look us up!  www.LOFT401.com

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## king183

I went inside these lofts last week to visit a friend who is renting there.  

A few obervations:

1) The floor plans are pretty nice. High ceilings, open concept, and the bedroom is somewhat secluded down a short hallway, instead of being located directly off the living room.

2)  The train is still very loud. The loft I was in was located on the side facing away from the tracks and it's still quite loud.  The quiet zone is a must.

3) They're not even close to finishing the building.  The interior hallways aren't finished, wiring is sticking out, sheet rock and sheet rock dust is everywhere.  Many of the units aren't close to being finished.  Even the unit I was in, which was being rented (I guess they changed their policy on no renters) wasn't completed.  I guess they've run out of money because this building was supposed to be finished in August of 2010 (what I was told by their sales team in January of 2010).

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## Chadanth

So, these are available for lease? Does anyone know the rates?

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## ou48A

A developer wants to build a new apartment complex that would be aimed at students just west of this location. 
This would require the removal of several houses that look to be mostly poorly maintained.

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## ChargerAg

> A developer wants to build a new apartment complex that would be aimed at students just west of this location. 
> This would require the removal of several houses that look to be mostly poorly maintained.


Would this be a traditional apartment complex or something more loft style?  It would be cool if Norman started to push for more loft style construction.

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## dankrutka

I've thought for years that some of those old houses along Boyd need to be demolished for student housing. The proximity to campus would be ideal for a mixed use development with retail along the street.

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## ou48A

> Would this be a traditional apartment complex or something more loft style?  It would be cool if Norman started to push for more loft style construction.


From what I understand it would be a traditional apartment complex for OU students.
 It still needs to be approved by the City.

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## ou48A

> I've thought for years that some of those old houses along Boyd need to be demolished for student housing. The proximity to campus would be ideal for a mixed use development with retail along the street.


There are probably about 2 dozen homes from Boyd to the north for 2 or 3 blocks near the tracks that are in such poor condition that they should be demolished. There is a lot of rental property that is not in good condition on the northeast side of OU, south of Boyd and west of the tracks.

 I would like to see high end condos located someplace not near the RR tracks.

I hope the city of Norman has enough vision to preserve enough right of way to allow the construction of a new street from Lindsey to Brooks to Boyd to Main St and on to the north that would follow the RR tracks. There also needs to be enough room for an additional RR track for commuter rail.

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## HangryHippo

I believe this would be an excellent location for such a development, and it would just be icing on the cake if it was loft-style that managed to incorporate some retail.  However, it seems unlikely according to http://normantranscript.com/headline...zoning-request. The city council, citing the need for more "discussion," has postponed the request to October 23.  WTF?  For christ sake, can't we just get some people that don't always endlessly discuss but never seem to accomplish something?  The idiot mayor also said that a presentation regarding the proposal from one of the developers would be inappropriate at this time.  Of course, let's delay this until October and refuse to even hear some discussion about the damn thing.  Seems to make perfect sense to me.

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## Roadhawg

> So, these are available for lease? Does anyone know the rates?


I was wondering that myself

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## king183

The genius city council thinks this proposal is making Norman "too dense," which they associate with crime and higher resource use.  Absolutely idiocy.

I've been saying for a while now that Norman, once considered a prized model of a town by some, is now unequivocally moving backwards.  They failure of the UNP development that's indistinguishable from a strip mall in Moore, proposals to demolish old buildings downtown to build a surface lot, the continued building of low quality, cookie-cutter houses, and fears of apartments that are "too dense"-- it's all very disappointing.

The Norman City Council embarrasses itself weekly.

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## king183

> So, these are available for lease? Does anyone know the rates?


According to the person I know who lives and rents there, they are not available for lease.  I don't know they entire story, but the person apparently hassled the developer or owner of the unit to let her rent it while she was in school and they ultimately relented.  That's all I know.

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## dankrutka

> The genius city council thinks this proposal is making Norman "too dense," which they associate with crime and higher resource use.  Absolutely idiocy.
> 
> I've been saying for a while now that Norman, once considered a prized model of a town by some, is now unequivocally moving backwards.  They failure of the UNP development that's indistinguishable from a strip mall in Moore, proposals to demolish old buildings downtown to build a surface lot, the continued building of low quality, cookie-cutter houses, and fears of apartments that are "too dense"-- it's all very disappointing.
> 
> The Norman City Council embarrasses itself weekly.


Norman residents need to get to a city council meeting it sounds like!!! Where is the OU architecture community? They need to help people realize density is good!!!

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## Dubya61

According to another thread discussing the proposed apartment complex at 36th and Tecumseh, this meeting is a good thing to try to contain another mess.

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## ou48A

There always seems to be a great aversion by some to remove old poorly maintained homes near OU to make way for any new development by OU or by developers.

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## HangryHippo

> the genius city council thinks this proposal is making norman "too dense," which they associate with crime and higher resource use.  Absolutely idiocy.
> 
> I've been saying for a while now that norman, once considered a prized model of a town by some, is now unequivocally moving backwards.  They failure of the unp development that's indistinguishable from a strip mall in moore, proposals to demolish old buildings downtown to build a surface lot, the continued building of low quality, cookie-cutter houses, and fears of apartments that are "too dense"-- it's all very disappointing.
> 
> The norman city council embarrasses itself weekly.


this.

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## Garin

Who wants to back up to a train track?

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## Soonerman

> Who wants to back up to a train track?


Especially a busy train track like the one in Norman.

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## dankrutka

> Who wants to back up to a train track?


With the right walls, a ton of people. The location is awesome. Close to campus, campus corner, and the Mont. i lived in one of those places and the train was not a problem.

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## ou48A

The train tracks though Norman should have double tracked and been buried decades ago.

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