# OKCpedia > Businesses & Employers >  Enogex to move 400 jobs to dt OKC!

## dmoor82

Enogex will move Four Hundred  jobs to dt OKC!http://newsok.com/enogex-moving-to-d...ad_story_title

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## SkyWestOKC

First quarter 2012 will be big for the CBD. Nearly 750 new employees. (400 Enogex, 250 Continental Resources, 100 new SandRidge jobs by then, too) Not counting normal growth of the existing companies downtown, not to mention Devon who will most definitely keep hiring.

This is all great news for the housing, restaurant, and retail offerings for sure.

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## Larry OKC

Where are the employees now? The address given in the article sounds like one that IS downtown already??

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## SkyWestOKC

That address is on I-44 near Lincoln Ave. East of the CHK Empire.

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## Larry OKC

Thanks for the info! It was the Central Park thing that threw me since the MAPS 3 "Central Park" and all. Figured the City had gone ahead and named a street for it (like the have the Boulevard).

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## Just the facts

I think it is a sad commentary on the City in general that a street called "Central Park Drive" is not exactly where one might expect to find it.  Of course, this is the same city that took out Main Street and replaced it with a parking garage.

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## BG918

OG+E has a lot of office space in those buildings off Central Park Drive so it makes sense that Enogex was there too.  Didn't Sonic at one time have several floors in One Leadership Square before moving to Bricktown?

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## Larry OKC

I would presume if there is a Central Park Drive that there is already a park named that in the vicinity that it goes to/around/through? But I may be too focused on a recreational "park" as there are other types (business park etc). Is it named for the apartments maybe? I had forgotten about those. That may confuse people to, if someone is thinking about those apts, that it has/will have a view of the MAPS 3 Park. Sort of like when folks mistakenly believe anything with Bricktown in its name is in Bricktown.

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## dcsooner

Don't know, but it sounds like companies are just moving around withnin the metro.  One districts gain is another losses so OKC is not truly gaining businesses just shufflling the deck.  OkC needs new businesses to relocate to the city from other places or startups. How long can these relatively few energy companies continue to prop up the entire city>

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## dmoor82

> Don't know, but it sounds like companies are just moving around withnin the metro. One districts gain is another losses so OKC is not truly gaining businesses just shufflling the deck. OkC needs new businesses to relocate to the city from other places or startups. How long can these relatively few energy companies continue to prop up the entire city>


Few energy companies?I think alot the city is being "propped up" as you say, but every major city in the country does not have there entire city 'propped up"!I agree with the shuffling for the most part.

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## SkyWestOKC

Yes, economically in the grand scheme of things OKC does not gain a ton from this move. But, downtown gains a lot. Having more jobs downtown only helps to stimulate the overall economy of downtown as it is grasping out to become self sufficient and hit the "critical mass." It's getting close. It also is about absorbing vacant office space downtown. We won't see many office buildings come up until the existing inventory is absorbed.

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## Larry OKC

True but in the shuffling of the deck, that leaves empty space in the old location (unless there is a replacement tenant that hasn't been announced). Half a dozen of one, 6 of the other sort of thing.

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## dmoor82

Well continental and enogex are filling alot of the dt vacancies,Most of the vacancy class A space in dt OKC comes from the idle First National tower!Enogex will be filling vacancies in dt but will be leaving alot of vacancy for the North side of town.

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## SkyWestOKC

Filling that space will be cheaper. Won't be nearly as expensive as filling downtown space.

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## ljbab728

> I think it is a sad commentary on the City in general that a street called "Central Park Drive" is not exactly where one might expect to find it.  Of course, this is the same city that took out Main Street and replaced it with a parking garage.


I hardly see the naming of a particular street as a sad commentary on the City in general.  There is a street in OKC named Tulsa which is nowhere (which has nothing to do with Nowhere, Oklahoma in Caddo County) near Tulsa.  Does that have anything to do with anything?

It's not unusual for a new street in a new development to be named after that development.

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## Naptown12713

Does anyone know if Tronox is still leasing space downtown?  If so, where is their corporate office now based...hopefully somewhere downtown.

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## progressiveboy

> Don't know, but it sounds like companies are just moving around withnin the metro.  One districts gain is another losses so OKC is not truly gaining businesses just shufflling the deck.  OkC needs new businesses to relocate to the city from other places or startups. How long can these relatively few energy companies continue to prop up the entire city>


 Agree. OKC seems to have it's eggs all in one basket. Hardly enough diversification. What happens when oil and gas prices plummet? Not a pretty picture.

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## Steve

Tronox consolidated its offices at its research campus in far northwest Oklahoma City. It was a smart move - if they were to survive, they had to cut costs.

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## kevinpate

Anyone hear anything on who might want the space enogex will vacate when it goes dt?

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## okcpulse

Enogex, Continental Resources, Devon, Sandridge, Cheaspeake... My list of potential employers is growing.  Although Enogex is already in OKC, moving downtown puts them in a position for stronger growth.

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## dankrutka

> Don't know, but it sounds like companies are just moving around withnin the metro.  One districts gain is another losses so OKC is not truly gaining businesses just shufflling the deck.  OkC needs new businesses to relocate to the city from other places or startups. How long can these relatively few energy companies continue to prop up the entire city>


Yeah, but if businesses are going to move around in the metro, I'm glad that they're moving to downtown. THe more action concentrated in the downtown (or the downtown area) the better. We need to quit sprawling and most any movement towards the core (business, residential, commmercial) is preferable.

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## Larry OKC

Oooops. We will be needing 400 more parking spaces! But no fear, there isn't a parking problem DT...

 :Sofa:

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## mcca7596

> Oooops. We will be needing 400 more parking spaces! But no fear, there isn't a parking problem DT...


Unless that literally puts the number of jobs downtown at a higher number than the number of parking spaces, then you're correct, there's not a parking problem downtown.

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## ljbab728

> Oooops. We will be needing 400 more parking spaces! But no fear, there isn't a parking problem DT...


Larry, you're assuming that none of those employees might decide to live downtown or wouldn't use some other kind of transportation to work besides a car.  But you're correct anyway that the parking will not be a problem.

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## Steve

Larry is also clearly unaware of the parking surplus created by the doubling of the City Center garage by Devon and move of their employees. Santa Fe garage has a lot of vacancy right now and should be able to accommodate much of this influx.

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## kevinpate

should parking ever really become a problem that closes in on the perception of some, it's not like some folks couldn't get together and decide a structure or three, or recently vacated lot in the core isn't really all that and a bag o chips.  Once decided, it would be oh so okie dokie to go ahead and knock it down, clear it out, and put in a surface lot or maybe even a multi-level garage, depending on who's doing the deciding.

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## Just the facts

> Larry, you're assuming that none of those employees might decide to live downtown or wouldn't use some other kind of transportation to work besides a car.  But you're correct anyway that the parking will not be a problem.


This is the new urbanism at work.  Live downtown, work downtown, play downtown - no need for a car or a parking space.  Add in a ZipCar at some point and the need to own a car will be gone 100%.  That will save the average person $500 per month (car payment, insurance, gas, oil change, parking space, etc).

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## bombermwc

OK, I don't understand this move. So they're a couple hundred folks....only 5 floors in LS. They're going to significantly increase their costs by moving downtown rather than where they were. Now the building they were in is nothing fancy...it's a cookie cutter building you see of various heights all over OKC....even MWC has a 4 floor version. But you give up the 30 second walk free parking world for downtown's parking fun (oh yeah there isn't a parking problem, right....cough). That also means the cost to the employee goes up. Having to pay to park every day can be a huge burdon for someone in an entry level position. They actually would make more money not following the company downtown.

Again, I just dont understand what it gets them. So now they have proximity to other energy companies. So what. It's not as though they interact with each other....there's no B2B there.

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## betts

Maybe they're moving downtown for the same reason I did.  It's fun to be downtown, there's more going on, it makes you feel current.  Company owners are as subject to those sorts of feelings as anyone.  Why did Sandridge put their offices downtown?  Why did Larry Nichols build his new building downtown?  There's your answer, I suspect.

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## PhiAlpha

> OK, I don't understand this move. So they're a couple hundred folks....only 5 floors in LS. They're going to significantly increase their costs by moving downtown rather than where they were. Now the building they were in is nothing fancy...it's a cookie cutter building you see of various heights all over OKC....even MWC has a 4 floor version. But you give up the 30 second walk free parking world for downtown's parking fun (oh yeah there isn't a parking problem, right....cough). That also means the cost to the employee goes up. Having to pay to park every day can be a huge burdon for someone in an entry level position. They actually would make more money not following the company downtown.
> 
> Again, I just dont understand what it gets them. So now they have proximity to other energy companies. So what. It's not as though they interact with each other....there's no B2B there.


OGE is enogex's parent company, I'd imagine it has something to do with them being closer to each other.

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## Just the facts

Can someone (bombermwc) please define "parking problem".  What exactly is it that is perceived as the problem?  Is it because you have to pay for it?  Is it because you have to walk a couple blocks from the parking spot to where you want to go?  Is it because you literally can't find a parking space (as in - there are 500 parking spaces and you are car 501)?  What is the 'problem' in 'parking problem'?

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## rcjunkie

> Can someone (bombermwc) please define "parking problem".  What exactly is it that is perceived as the problem?  Is it because you have to pay for it?  Is it because you have to walk a couple blocks from the parking spot to where you want to go?  Is it because you literally can't find a parking space (as in - there are 500 parking spaces and you are car 501)?  What is the 'problem' in 'parking problem'?


I think that with most, it's a matter of perception, people are lazy and want to park at the front door, rather it's at home, shopping or work.

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## Pete

For years, I worked in Leadership Square -- in fact, our offices were on the 3rd floor of the north tower, which is part of the space being taken by Enogex.

I loved working down there.  Whatever small inconvenience regarding parking was more than off-set by tons of lunch options, being able to walk to my bank and dry cleaners, and run lots of other errands without having to get in my car.  Plus, I knew plenty of people that also worked down there so we frequently met for lunch or afterwards for happy hour or dinner.  And of course, there are now tons of entertainment options as well.

I'm sure there is some synergy with OG&E but regardless, lots of people love working downtown and for most, that will be seen as a plus when considering a job or staying at one.

Also, keep in mind that our downtown is in the geographic center of the metropolitan area.  While it may seem to some that everybody has moved to Edmond, there are lots of employees of any large company that live in Moore/Norman, Mid/Del, and Yukon/Mustang.  Downtown is very easy to get to from all those areas.

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## Just the facts

> I think that with most, it's a matter of perception, people are lazy and want to park at the front door, rather it's at home, shopping or work.


But I want to hear the reason from some who thinks there is a problem.  We can sit back and say it is a perception issue but for someone like bombermwc, he doesn't see at a perception problem.  It is a real problem for him.  I just want him to identify the problem.

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## TStheThird

I park downtown all of the time for multiple different events during day and night and never have issues.  Paying $5 or walking a couple blocks is not a parking problem.

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## stlokc

Pete's comment about geographic location is right on point, and not something that is discussed much. OKC may be sprawling, but at least it manages to be sprawling in 3 or 4 different directions, which keeps downtown near the "center." If I were a company looking at recruitment, I would think about this a lot. By locating on Memorial Road, companies make it very hard to attract qualified employees from Moore or Norman. Same thing if a company were to locate far South. How many Edmond or NW OKC people would drive down there? Also, about parking: many employers in Downtown St. Louis split parking costs with their employees as an added benefit. I would imagine companies in OKC would do the same thing.

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## BG918

> For years, I worked in Leadership Square -- in fact, our offices were on the 3rd floor of the north tower, which is part of the space being taken by Enogex.
> 
> I loved working down there.  Whatever small inconvenience regarding parking was more than off-set by tons of lunch options, being able to walk to my bank and dry cleaners, and run lots of other errands without having to get in my car.  Plus, I knew plenty of people that also worked down there so we frequently met for lunch or afterwards for happy hour or dinner.  And of course, there are now tons of entertainment options as well.
> 
> I'm sure there is some synergy with OG&E but regardless, lots of people love working downtown and for most, that will be seen as a plus when considering a job or staying at one.
> 
> Also, keep in mind that our downtown is in the geographic center of the metropolitan area.  While it may seem to some that everybody has moved to Edmond, there are lots of employees of any large company that live in Moore/Norman, Mid/Del, and Yukon/Mustang.  Downtown is very easy to get to from all those areas.


Agree.  Working downtown is awesome.  You definitely miss it once you've worked there and then are moved somewhere else...

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## Larry OKC

> Larry, you're assuming that none of those employees might decide to live downtown or wouldn't use some other kind of transportation to work besides a car.  But you're correct anyway that the parking will not be a problem.





> Larry is also clearly unaware of the parking surplus created by the doubling of the City Center garage by Devon and move of their employees. Santa Fe garage has a lot of vacancy right now and should be able to accommodate much of this influx.


You guys are funny!

Sure _some_ might decide to live downtown, but that brings up a couple of obvious questions: How many? And are there sufficient residences for that number that are also affordable and have what ever those folks are looking for? Or are the majority going to continue living wherever they currently do and commute? Maybe they are going to utilize our excellent City bus system, the yet non-existent Streetcars (which are being pushed back in the timeline), the rubber tired Trolleys or maybe the River Cruises. LOL

I am aware of the doubling of the garage in question. We went though the math on this in another thread about Continental Resources coming, and there was going to be a net loss of spaces as a result of that. Don't see how needing a potential 400 more spaces helps any? That said, I take it the Santa Fe garage is in close proximity? Where is Santa Fe garage in relation to the Continental Resources move?

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## okcRE

another aspect is the psychological effect of moving to downtown; being in a fast pace environment has a positive affect on employees' work ethic and motivation.

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## Larry OKC

> But I want to hear the reason from some who thinks there is a problem.  We can sit back and say it is a perception issue but for someone like bombermwc, he doesn't see at a perception problem.  It is a real problem for him.  I just want him to identify the problem.


Can only speak for myself but you are right. If given a choice (and we have that) I am going to frequent a business that has free parking as close to the entrance that I can over any business that doesn't have parking and either collects the money themselves or uses a 3rd party (paid meters or parking garages/surface lots). Case in point, if a business has another location that is just as close to where I am and they have free, accessible parking, I am going to go there over the DT location (unless I am DT for some other reason already). Zios, Abuelos and Chilenos all come to mind. As much as we liked Spaghetti Warehouse, got tired of circling the block to try to find a metered space and having do make sure you have change, and time it so you either leave before it expires or have to go out and feed the meter etc). Just go to Toby Keith's and free parking.

In today's economy, paying $5 for parking on a regular basis is simply out of the question. Now if you are the Assistant City Manager making a 6 figure salary, or a 20+ year retired City employee with 17 rental properties, that is a luxury that the people I know can't afford.

For some it is a matter of laziness, for others it can be a matter of necessity (walking "a couple of blocks" is out of the question").

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## bluedogok

If 5.00 is a deal breaker then you better not go to a major city downtown area because the parking is way more than that. If you can't afford 5.00 for parking you probably ought to stay home.

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## Larry OKC

And that is what I do most of the time (or as I said, I go places that don't charge for parking and such). I might do it for a special occasion, but certainly not on a daily basis.

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## betts

Or park in Deep Deuce for free.  We've got a couple of people who clearly work in DT OKC.  I see them getting out of their cars in the morning, jacket in hand, heading into the CBD.  And there are plenty of people who park on 2nd St. when there are special events.  Of course, when LEVEL and Aloft are completed, the free street parking is going to fall off dramatically.

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## stlokc

LarryOKC...Enogex is a corporate office, not a pizza restaurant or a clothing store. I doubt seriously whether a business such as this is very reliant on walk-in traffic. If you are a businessperson engaging in the services of Enogex, you are probably not visiting in person so often that the parking situation is a major trauma.

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## Larry OKC

stlokc,

I am aware of that. But a parking space is a parking space. In regards to Enogex, where are those employees supposed to park? If you have an influx of 400 employees competing for the same number of spaces (within whatever proximity is acceptable) for whatever reason (business or pleasure), doesn't that present a potential "problem"? As I said, it isn't just these 400 coming into DT, Devon seems to be taking care of their own expansion needs and possibly SandRidge is doing the same. But what about Continental Resources? They are bringing X amount of employees with plans for significant expansion rather soon. There are others this is just the last contributing factor. It is a good problem to have, but it can quickly develop into a real problem and not just a perceived one (often perception becomes reality, just ask anyone involved in marketing).

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## stlokc

Larry, I apologize if I misread your post at 9:17. I thought you were equating the experience of the casual visitor trying to find a Bricktown spot for dinner with the visitors to Enogex. I do agree that perception can become reality ( I actually do work in marketing). All the more reason for the downtown community to actively shape perception. I'm pretty sure a company is not going to move 400 employees without doing due diligence on such matters. And I can't claim intimate knowledge about the downtown garages. But 3 or 4 or even 5 blocks is really not that unusual for an urban area. People in OKC, and I don't say this to judge, it's a point of fact, have become so used to the suburban way of thinking with regards to parking that they are slow to realize that there are trade-offs involved with a reviving downtown. I'm certain that if people with money perceive an unmet need, or the city does, then a new garage will spring up in one of the vacant lots that ring downtown.

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## mcca7596

> I'm certain that if people with money perceive an unmet need, or the city does, then a new garage will spring up in one of the vacant lots that ring downtown.


I believe it has been discussed that Sandridge intends to add two parking garages on surface lots they own at 4th and 5th and Broadway as part of their campus master plan.

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## ljbab728

> You guys are funny!
> 
> Sure _some_ might decide to live downtown, but that brings up a couple of obvious questions: How many? And are there sufficient residences for that number that are also affordable and have what ever those folks are looking for? Or are the majority going to continue living wherever they currently do and commute? Maybe they are going to utilize our excellent City bus system, the yet non-existent Streetcars (which are being pushed back in the timeline), the rubber tired Trolleys or maybe the River Cruises. LOL
> 
> I am aware of the doubling of the garage in question. We went though the math on this in another thread about Continental Resources coming, and there was going to be a net loss of spaces as a result of that. Don't see how needing a potential 400 more spaces helps any? That said, I take it the Santa Fe garage is in close proximity? Where is Santa Fe garage in relation to the Continental Resources move?


Larry, I'm glad to have provided you some amusement.  But you don't have any answers to your questions, either.  You just assume that every new downtown employee will require a parking spot and you have absolutely no way of knowing that.  Even those who don't live downtown or take public transportation can participate in carpooling.  Please try to find a few more negative aspects to downtown growth if you can so we can send all developments to the burbs.  I suspect that Enogex didn't make this decision and afterwards suddenly decide "Whoops, where will my employees park and how can they afford it."

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## Architect2010

Larry. You are incredibly pessimistic, and you EMBRACE that. It's terrifying. ;]

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## bombermwc

That $5+ charge per day is my #1 complaint for any downtown parking. For a good salary employee, it's not a big deal to spend an extra $100 a month if that's where the job is. But for an entry level worker, parking can consist of almost a 1/10 of their take home pay folks. You're talking about the bread and butter of any medium and large size company. It's a HUGE burdon for those people. So, for example, you take the janitor for Enogex. You're now telling that person that they can expect to have a pay cut of $1200 a year just to be able to park at their job compared to free parking before. For those of us with comfortable salaries, we don't really think about it because it's not a big problem for us. But for some people, that is a HUUUUUGE deal. 

Unless you take the approach of working out a deal where your employees park for free somewhere and your company absorbs the cost, then you're shafting your employee. 

And just for the record, i don't mind walking a few blocks. Remember I'm the one that complains about people driving their car from one store to the next in a strip mall. I walk the 1/2 mile from one end to the other...even with a stroller with 2 kids in it. 

If you move downtown, yes there is more of a delay in getting to your desk...that's part of the world of being in an urban jungle. You just have to personally add more time to your commute to make it happen.

My #2 gripe is the availability of spaces. We see crap thrown out from the city about how many spaces there are...blah blah. If we didn't need more spaces, then why did we have a couple of new massive parking garages that were built at Galleria? Did we not need a garage at the county courthouse either. We've added spaces after years of people complaining and the parking authority ignoring it because it would mean more spaces...ie more supply...so they can't justify the cost as much. It's a lame arguement and we just flat don't have enough parking. And a lot of it is in the WRONG place. I don't often see Santa Fe full. Why is that? Because people don't want to park there and then walk halfway across downtown either. That can add another 20 minutes to the commute. There's a difference in adding a few minutes to get a couple blocks and the city saying, "hey we have 1000 spaces 1/4 mile away, just use that". Would you like it if the city put a parking lot in your neighborhood and told everyone to use it rather than their own driveway? I don't think so.

And just by saying there isn't a problem, doesn't make the problem go away. That's the city's role in this fun. Ignore it.

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## BoulderSooner

5 bucks to park downtown is nothing ...   in denver several of the central lots charge 15-20 bucks a day  of course you can park a couple of block away for 5 bucks   or you can park further away and take the lightrail/streetcar somethign that will be coming soon to our downtown

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## Rover

LOL.  New York City - $15-65 per day.  On an hourly rate it will be from $10-20 an hour.  And people walk blocks.  Our whole downtown would be considered an easy walk from any downtown lot.  Or in a commute, they still have to walk several blocks for a subway unless they are right on the line.  People here are spoiled and I think a little lazy.

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## BDP

> That said, I take it the Santa Fe garage is in close proximity? Where is Santa Fe garage in relation to the Continental Resources move?


I'll try and be nice, but really, Larry, you're complaining about a parking problem downtown, yet you don't even know where one of the largest parking structures downtown is or its proximity to Continental Resources future location?

Seriously, there is parking all over downtown and I even park on the street all of the time with little problem. Maybe downtown's parking problem is simply that you don't know where to park...

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## BDP

> If you move downtown, yes there is more of a delay in getting to your desk...that's part of the world of being in an urban jungle. You just have to personally add more time to your commute to make it happen.


Maybe. But you can subtract the time it takes you to do a lot of pre and post work errands and you don't have to bring lunch every day to stay within your alloted lunch break time. (and, thanks for the chuckle... "urban jungle"... ha!  :Smile:  )




> If we didn't need more spaces, then why did we have a couple of new massive parking garages that were built at Galleria?


This is the laziness factor. I know you are not afflicted with this, but many are and despite the fact that most companies in most major cities would not have to incur the cost and allocation of real estate to supply such parking saturation, here you have to just to make it so that most people can park and get to their office without ever encountering a cross walk, because they would otherwise cry "parking problem!".




> Because people don't want to park there and then walk halfway across downtown either. That can add another 20 minutes to the commute.


Whoa... what downtown are we talking about? 20 minutes from Santa Fe to the middle of downtown? Even if that were true, I can guarantee you it wouldn't take 20 minutes to walk from one major garage to another, and that's the real measurement: How far away is the farthest destination from a parking garage. No way it's 20 minutes. I know that I can walk from Park to the Ford Center in about 10 minutes and I'll walk past at least 3 good sized parking garages in that span.




> There's a difference in adding a few minutes to get a couple blocks and the city saying, "hey we have 1000 spaces 1/4 mile away, just use that". Would you like it if the city put a parking lot in your neighborhood and told everyone to use it rather than their own driveway? I don't think so.


If we didn't have driveways and there were stores, restaurants, and other services between that garage and my house, I wouldn't mind. In fact, that sounds nice.

It's hilarious because there are places where millions of people live and work where it may take you 45 minutes just to find a parking space within a quarter of a mile of your destination. We have, what, maybe 48 square blocks in our CBD with a small fraction of the city's work force working there with parking within two blocks of every destination and we have a parking problem? You're going to walk AT MOST 5 blocks. That's about 15 minutes max. However, many have parking where they don't even hit a crosswalk on the way to their office.

Now, if people here really think we will have a parking problem downtown until we can eliminate the need to use a crosswalk for every worker on the way to their office and do it for free... well, then I guess we're screwed, because I don't think any city core has ever pulled that off in history. And to do so would probably eliminate just about every advantage urban areas have by using up all the real estate for cars and not people. I think this is just another case where a company compared the advantages of being in the suburbs and being downtown and found that, for them, there are plenty of benefits to being downtown that more than outweigh the possible inconvenience of adding a 10 minute walk to the workers day because of parking.

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## Of Sound Mind

Nice post, BDP.

I work downtown. I love working downtown. I walk two blocks from the parking garage where I park to Leadership Square where I work. It's no big deal. And it certainly doesn't add much time to my daily commute to and from work. From my vantage point, it's a lot of belly-aching based on very little actual experience.

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## Larry OKC

> I'll try and be nice, but really, Larry, you're complaining about a parking problem downtown, yet you don't even know where one of the largest parking structures downtown is or its proximity to Continental Resources future location?
> 
> Seriously, there is parking all over downtown and I even park on the street all of the time with little problem. Maybe downtown's parking problem is simply that you don't know where to park...


Thank you for taking the effort to be nice. It can be a challenge sometimes (I fall guilty of that temptation myself from time to time). It is because of the fact that whenever I have had a NEED to go downtown I didn't know where to park etc, and the only things you notice are the $5 here $10 there sort of things. That puts me off of wanting to return voluntarily. I know I am not the only one. For those that know all of the in/outs thats great. more power to you. if our relatively "cheap" DT parking fees aren't a detriment to you, again great! More power to you. But they are to others. The fact that it costs even more in other Cities makes me less inclined to move there (along with other higher cost of living items). So I will stay here.

i like many others are used to free parking that is in very close proximity to the place I want to go to. Simple fact. If given a choice, I am going to go where there isn't a similar "parking problem" (also the reason I avoid Malls during the Christmas season unless I absolutely have to, not because of cost but proximity).

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## Larry OKC

> LOL.  New York City - $15-65 per day.  On an hourly rate it will be from $10-20 an hour.  And people walk blocks.  Our whole downtown would be considered an easy walk from any downtown lot.  Or in a commute, they still have to walk several blocks for a subway unless they are right on the line.  People here are spoiled and I think a little lazy.


Then it shouldn't be a problem convincing everyone in NYC to move here and live/work DT. Go for it!  LOL

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## Pete

Due to the compact nature of downtown, no parking garage is more than .25 miles from any office building (and of course, in most cases it's much closer than that).

The average person walks 3 MPH, so that means the longest possible walk from parking to office is 5 minutes.

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## Just the facts

If only OKC had some kind of transit system that would allow someone to park for free on the edge of downtown and ride it to within 50' of their final destination.

I also wish someone would create a Downtown OKC App for Android and iPhone.  They could include a parking feature that shows the parking garages, rates, and location on map.  When the new smart parking meters are installed you could even see how much time is left on your meter, pay from your phone, or see where open spaces are (and have your phone route you to it).  Then Larry and Bombermwc could launch their app, find a parking spot close to their destination at whatever price point they choose, and problem solved.

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## kevinpate

> ... The average person walks 3 MPH, so that means the longest possible walk from parking to office is 5 minutes.


You've been gone too long Pete.  Some of us don't walk.  We still mosey.  That five minute walk can consume a solid 20 minutes, or more, when ya mosey.  <VBG>

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## Rover

> If only OKC had some kind of transit system that would allow someone to park for free on the edge of downtown and ride it to within 50' of their final destination.
> 
> I also wish someone would create a Downtown OKC App for Android and iPhone.  They could include a parking feature that shows the parking garages, rates, and location on map.  When the new smart parking meters are installed you could even see how much time is left on your meter, pay from your phone, or see where open spaces are (and have your phone route you to it).  Then Larry and Bombermwc could launch their app, find a parking spot close to their destination at whatever price point they choose, and problem solved.


And, we want it all free and no taxes.  All facilities should just appear and be free.

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## Larry OKC

> Larry. You are incredibly pessimistic, and you EMBRACE that. It's terrifying. ;]


More of a realist, but ok, if you want to label me that. LOL

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## BDP

OK, guys, you inspired me. I checked online and Sweets and Eats is serving chicken pot pie today, so I decided to "mosey" on downtown with my trusty iPhone stopwatch, clock some walk times and have me some pie. Here's what happened: (I walked as I normally do, could be slower for some and faster for others. However, I did obey every crossing sign, not just the light, but the actual sign that tells me when to cross. Sandridge derailed me with some construction and I took detours to the front doors of locations where applicable, causing a couple of unneeded crossings.) 

Times are MM:SS (if you question the accuracy of the time piece used, please feel free to email Steve Jobs (steve.jobs@apple.com). Supposedly, he answers every one.)

00:00 START: Santa Fe Parking Garage (choice south end spot on level 2)
02:56 Current Devon front door (furture Continental Resources Building)
05:19 Sweets and Eats (Good pot pie, bad green beans)
07:41 Leadership Square
09:33 Bank of Oklahoma
11:24 Sandridge Hole
14:17 Another Parking Garage
15:42 Skirvin Hotel
19:20 END: At Car Door in Santa Fe Garage

Cost to park: $2

Now that is about 12, 13 blocks with some uneeded street crossings just to hit a destination. Now, looking at that my main conclusion is that I walk freakin fast and/or our CBD blocks are small. Either way, it does show that a mortal human being can cover much of downtown in under 20 minutes and, seriously, some suits with more important things to do than me passed me on my tour. 

At my pace you could get from Santa Fe parking garage to north end of autombobile alley in 20 minutes. Just a couple of minutes more and you can get to the Plaza Court in MidTown. You can get to the Civic Center in less than 15 minutes (and that's on the "other" side of downtown).

Basically, just about every point downtown is walkable from any other given point in less than 25 minutes and most of it is doable in less that 10 minutes. Given the amount of parking locations available downtown (http://www.downtownokc.com/supermap/...?categoryid=92), you can pretty much do it from anywhere under 10 minutes if you just know where to park. And for visitors (like me), when you include street parking (which is free at night and on weekends and almost always available in most of downtown) it is hard to ever argue that there is a downtown parking problem without factoring in some sort of, dare I say it, very extreme laziness or skewed perception of the size and needs of our downtown. It just isn't that big and has a ton of parking options for its size. In fact, imo, *the accessibility of downtown by foot from any given parking space should be a SELLING point of our downtown, not something used to discourage businesses from locating there...*

I'm hungry again...

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## mcca7596

Nice observations BDP!

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## city

> I believe it has been discussed that Sandridge intends to add two parking garages on surface lots they own at 4th and 5th and Broadway as part of their campus master plan.


OH that's a GREAT use for those surface lots... parking garages on Broadway. I wouldn't expect Sandridge to do anything different. I detest that company.

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## BDP

> Then it shouldn't be a problem convincing everyone in NYC to move here and live/work DT. Go for it! LOL


But think about why it would be impossible to convince a lot of people from NYC to move here. A lot of it simply has to do with the lack of a lifestyle to which they are accustomed to and desire. The existence of cities like NYC and the trending of populations to cities has a lot to do with that, not to mention the reason that so many companies call those cities home. It sure isn't cost or commute times. The pervasive perception of urban cores as inconvenient by much of the Oklahoma City population that has dominated this city's development since the 40s has created a city that for the most part when people visit many say "how could I live there, there's nothing there". In turn, companies go "why would I locate there, no one wants to live there". This is a big issue really.

Now, I don't want everyone in NYC to move here and, honestly, I don't want to live there. But the country and the world is much more than NYC and it wouldn't take but a FEW companies to begin to recognize that Oklahoma City has something to offer to really make an impact. Increasing the city's living and working options only increases that chance by broadening the corporate demographic to which we can market the city. It's very easy to see that an urban lifestyle is the one option we can't truly offer yet. However, I think some companies close to home are beginning to realize there is something going on which can not only enable them to offer a new lifestyle option for their employees, but can also help them more easily recruit workers who may want that choice. 

The reality is that Enogex's move will make more of a positive impact on downtown and the city as a whole than the negative impact it will have on the I-44 / I-35 business corridor. Our suburban office market is plentiful and so well establish that probably the only thing that will really happen is that some brokerage firms will be able to get some more fees from new transactions and, if it really is the most desirable office environment in OKC, they can raise the rates on the next tenant.

In any event, I think we can all agree that new businesses are good for OKC and if a strong urban center is what we need to attract new businesses, then we need to be mindful of making sure that area actually offers what a potential urban customer would want. And the best part is that the vast mass of people here that are repelled by urban living would see little change to their daily lives outside of the benefits associated by living in a city with a growing GDP. And if suburban office space, built to suit, with acres of "front door" parking _really_ is what is needed to attract relocation, then we must already be a bigger national business force than I realized. ; )

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## Larry OKC

Great job BDP, you just spent $2 and spent 20 minutes walking around to to places that are of no interest (well maybe except for the SandRidge "hole", got to love that...LOL). 

This was something it took me a while to understand. One of the coupon gurus was talking about buying stuff on sale (at the lowest price point in the typical 12 week cycle) and using a coupon. Most coupon users see it as they are saving the same amount when they use the coupon no matter when they buy. But which is the best deal. When you buy Colgate toothpaste at the full regular price ($2.58 minus the $1 coupon) or when they have it on sale for $1 and you put the $1 coupon on it?  Which is better, you are still saving the $1 coupon but in one case you are still paying $1.58 and in the other you are getting it for free.

Now if you need to go to those places and can park that relatively cheap (but still more than "free"), then by all means go for it. I am not here to stop you any more than I am going to try to stop someone from overpaying for something at the grocery store. If you don't think adding 400 more people into the mix isn't going to have an effect, again, it isn't my problem. Enjoy! And if you luck out you can get from one side of DT to the other in nothing flat with our new Streetcar (think it was Councilman White that brought that up awhile back when he was debating the cost effectiveness). Sounds like he could have used your observations as support that we don't even need a DT streetcar at all. Which has led to getting the Streetcar to somewhere besides DT.

Am curious, is the $2 for all day or just the 20 minutes you were there?

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## mcca7596

Larry, you could just as easily walk to Bricktown or other "areas of interest" from the Santa Fe garage.

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## BrettM2

> Larry, you could just as easily walk to Bricktown or other "areas of interest" from the Santa Fe garage.


I parked there for every Thunder game I attended the last two years.  Easy walk to Bricktown to eat.  Real easy walk to the arena in bad weather (skywalk to Cox CC and then only the stretch across the street outside).  

This is an argument no one will win because it'll come down to preference.  I understand that when I go downtown, I may have to pay.  If it is worth it, I do it.  If not, I figure something else out.  There are plenty of places to park on just about any day.  Personal preference on paid parking vs. free/frontage parking vs. short walks will make each person view the situation differently.

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## soonerliberal

Uh... street parking is dang cheap and plentiful in the outskirts of downtown OKC.  Easy 10 - 15 min walk max.  Anyone think of that?

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## BDP

> Great job BDP, you just spent $2 and spent 20 minutes walking around to to places that are of no interest


Well, if you work there they are of interest and it wasn't a bad walk. I highlighted those areas because they are major employers and I thought we were talking about downtown vs. suburban offices. Either way, you could walk around all of bricktown and to the Ford Center in those twenty minutes based on the same distances from the Santa Fe parking garage. I certainly would have ZERO interest in parking at Enogex's current location and walking around it for 20 minutes. I'd have to get a LOT more than $2 to do that. : )




> If you don't think adding 400 more people into the mix isn't going to have an effect, again, it isn't my problem.


Tronox (Tronix?) used to occupy the same space, so it's really just getting it back up to capacity, not adding.




> Now if you need to go to those places and can park that relatively cheap (but still more than "free"), then by all means go for it.


This is another great point. If you park at a suburban office park, it's free, but you only can go to one place. When you park downtown, you may have to pay, but you have access to dozens of places and "major league" entertainment (just had to do it). Which is the better value? I can leave my car in the country for days and no one would notice, but I wouldn't have much to do.

And just for the record, I NEVER pay more than a few cents in a meter to park downtown and the majority of times I _don't_ pay more than free. Free parking is readily available. Do not park in paid surface lots or garages at night or park in bricktown in the day. If you are capable of walking 10 minutes, then the parking fees are really proximity fees that you elect to pay to get closer.




> Am curious, is the $2 for all day or just the 20 minutes you were there?


I was there over an hour, because I at lunch. I just clocked the actual walking time. Someone brought up Santa Fe parking garage, so I decided to clock it all from there. Otherwise, I would have parked in one of the dozen or so empty metered spots I walked by and paid less than a dollar for my time there. If I was going to bricktown, I wouldn't have paid anything.

I am beginning to think that you don't really feel there is a parking problem in downtown. For you, it is simply an interest problem. There's nothing there you want to do. So, obviously, paying anything is expensive if it's not what you're interested in. However, many many many people find urban areas much more interesting than suburban areas. This is why millions of people fill hotel rooms and buy plane tickets to visit urban cities purely for entertainment. This is why college grads are so likely to look for employment in urban centers, often time picking the place before picking the job. 

Now, does this in any way mean we should burn the suburbs or that they have no longer have a place in the mix of lifestyle options of any city? Of course not. The issue is that it is ALL we have. We are simply trying to expand our marketability and improve our reach. Maybe this is something you are not interested in either, I don't know, but I think many have the perspective that positive economic growth is a good thing and that portfolio diversification is a prudent way to ensure that. Cultivating a viable urban option for the city is a great way to help diversify living options in the city. Since we have so little of it, any degree is a significant increase in that area which helps bring better ROI. And the best part of it is that people currently living in the suburbs with no intention to ever change it can occasionally enjoy benefits of an urban enclave anytime they please without ever changing the size of their yard, the size of their wal-mart parking lots, or the price per square foot of their model home.




> Sounds like he could have used your observations as support that we don't even need a DT streetcar at all. Which has led to getting the Streetcar to somewhere besides DT.


Very true. Hopefully, it is just a start. Honestly, I would love for them to take the trolley's we own and reroute them to some of the inner neighborhoods to increase the reach. I think a walker to western western route serving Heitage Hills/Paseo/Lower Western route would be great and we already own the vehicles. It would be an option for visitors to venture outside of downtown to some of our great inner neighborhoods and would give those residents a way to connect to the streetcar. It could be sort of a destination oriented route that makes infrequent stops at strtegic points with consideration to the number of things walkable from that location. Maybe start at Plaza Court with stops at Overholser/Paseo/and 47th and Western. I would be willing to bet it would get better use than the Meridian trolley did and help make the street car more successful.




> Uh... street parking is dang cheap and plentiful in the outskirts of downtown OKC. Easy 10 - 15 min walk max. Anyone think of that?


Use it all the time.

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## bluedogok

> That $5+ charge per day is my #1 complaint for any downtown parking. For a good salary employee, it's not a big deal to spend an extra $100 a month if that's where the job is. But for an entry level worker, parking can consist of almost a 1/10 of their take home pay folks. You're talking about the bread and butter of any medium and large size company. It's a HUGE burdon for those people. So, for example, you take the janitor for Enogex. You're now telling that person that they can expect to have a pay cut of $1200 a year just to be able to park at their job compared to free parking before. For those of us with comfortable salaries, we don't really think about it because it's not a big problem for us. But for some people, that is a HUUUUUGE deal. 
> 
> Unless you take the approach of working out a deal where your employees park for free somewhere and your company absorbs the cost, then you're shafting your employee. 
> 
> And just for the record, i don't mind walking a few blocks. Remember I'm the one that complains about people driving their car from one store to the next in a strip mall. I walk the 1/2 mile from one end to the other...even with a stroller with 2 kids in it. 
> 
> If you move downtown, yes there is more of a delay in getting to your desk...that's part of the world of being in an urban jungle. You just have to personally add more time to your commute to make it happen.
> 
> My #2 gripe is the availability of spaces. We see crap thrown out from the city about how many spaces there are...blah blah. If we didn't need more spaces, then why did we have a couple of new massive parking garages that were built at Galleria? Did we not need a garage at the county courthouse either. We've added spaces after years of people complaining and the parking authority ignoring it because it would mean more spaces...ie more supply...so they can't justify the cost as much. It's a lame arguement and we just flat don't have enough parking. And a lot of it is in the WRONG place. I don't often see Santa Fe full. Why is that? Because people don't want to park there and then walk halfway across downtown either. That can add another 20 minutes to the commute. There's a difference in adding a few minutes to get a couple blocks and the city saying, "hey we have 1000 spaces 1/4 mile away, just use that". Would you like it if the city put a parking lot in your neighborhood and told everyone to use it rather than their own driveway? I don't think so.
> ...


The two times that I have worked in downtown my company either took care of my parking at the Santa Fe garage (TAP when they were at CityPlace,) or I received $45 a month to take care of parking (Dallas) and I could use it any way that I wanted, I found a garage on the other side of Plazas of the Americas that was $55 a month (91-93) and parked there. Friends who work in Downtown Austin also seem to have similar arrangements.

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## Just the facts

After reading the complaints from Larry and others I have concluded the following.  Downtown OKC does not have a parking problem; Larry and Bombermwc have a parking problem.  I base this conclusion on the fact that the problem follows them where ever THEY go which means the problem is theirs.  If it was a downtown problem, then it would be a problem for everyone.

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## Rover

Yes, there are cheap people.  And there are lazy people.  When cheap people are lazy then parking is a problem.  But I don't think that is the class of people downtown will appeal to.

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## dankrutka

I went to 30 Thunder games this year and had no problem parking for free for every single one of them. The only people that should complain about parking should have a disability. Otherwise, you are just lazy and should just stay away from cities at all times.

LarryOKC would complain if he got to design the entire city himself. That's all he does is complain and whine so his opinion is pretty irrelevent at this point...

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## ljbab728

> After reading the complaints from Larry and others I have concluded the following.  Downtown OKC does not have a parking problem; Larry and Bombermwc have a parking problem.  I base this conclusion on the fact that the problem follows them where ever THEY go which means the problem is theirs.  If it was a downtown problem, then it would be a problem for everyone.


Good observation.

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## PhiAlpha

> I went to 30 Thunder games this year and had no problem parking for free for every single one of them. The only people that should complain about parking should have a disability. Otherwise, you are just lazy and should just stay away from cities at all times.
> 
> LarryOKC would complain if he got to design the entire city himself. That's all he does is complain and whine so his opinion is pretty irrelevent at this point...


Yes, I almost find it comical that Larry could find something to spend the better part of two pages complaining about on a thread discussing a company relocating to downtown.

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## ljbab728

> Yes, I almost find it comical that Larry could find something to spend the better part of two pages complaining about on a thread discussing a company relocating to downtown.


Well, when you can't find something else to complain about, invent a reason.  LOL

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## rcjunkie

> After reading the complaints from Larry and others I have concluded the following.  Downtown OKC does not have a parking problem; Larry and Bombermwc have a parking problem.  I base this conclusion on the fact that the problem follows them where ever THEY go which means the problem is theirs.  If it was a downtown problem, then it would be a problem for everyone.


Well said and so very true, and it's not just parking, Larry hates anything and everything about OKC.

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## betts

C'mon guys.  A little civility would be nice.  While I almost always disagree with Larry, do you honestly believe he hates OKC?  He simply has a different point of view and no matter how different someone's opinion is, we should stick to arguing about issues, not making caustic generalizations about members.

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## flintysooner

I usually read LarryOKC's posts because he has an admirable concern for detail that is the polar opposite of my own perspective.

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## bombermwc

So if NYC is paying 65 a day to pay and it takes them 2 hours to get there...how is that my problem? They made the choice to live and work there and take that job. I'm not willing to accept that level of crap...which is why I live here.

Parking was just a very small part of my statement regarding their move...somehow it's been turned into a huge deal. So don't try and make me out to be some debbie downer here. We have different opinions, big whoop. I don't recall ever saying that I had a problem with them moving downtown, just that I was curious how it served as a benefit for the company. That question was answered and then this parking crap took off. 

Remember, i'm not the lazy butt that doesn't walk. When I park downtown i do park at santa fe and walk all over creation because i like looking at everything. So don't try and make me out as the bad guy here. I'm simply looking out for the small fries of these companies that don't get to voice their concerns...like the folks I mentioned that can't afford even $5 a day to park and didn't get the option to choose. The company moved and if they didn't get a new job, they have to absorb the lost income.

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## Just the facts

> I'm simply looking out for the small fries of these companies that don't get to voice their concerns...like the folks I mentioned that can't afford even $5 a day to park and didn't get the option to choose. The company moved and if they didn't get a new job, they have to absorb the lost income.


Do you know this to be a concern of any employees?

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## Of Sound Mind

My company pays for our parking. I wonder how many downtown companies _don't_ pay for or offset their employee's parking expenses.

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## BG918

The company I worked for in downtown Denver didn't pay for any employee's parking, including the CEO.  They wanted to encourage people to walk, bike or ride transit.  If you wanted to park it was $10 a day in a lot 3 blocks away.  A few parked there and several others parked on the street in a nearby neighborhood and walked 10 min.  I did that occasionally but took the bus, biked on nice days or rode the light rail every other day and so did everyone else.  The company paid for my $50/month transit card.

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## Urbanized

Most companies who employ office workers downtown also pay for parking for their people or have negotiated parking deals for them. And NOBODY who works downtown pays $5/day to park, so it's silly to even discuss that particular number. Monthly parking (which is abundant in downtown and convenient to every building), generally ranges from $30/month to $75/month.

Some people don't care to pay $5 to park when they eat or go out for entertainment (Larry is obviously one), and that's fine. There are lots of options in the suburbs that offer free, upfront parking, and there's nothing inherently wrong with preferring those. It's not my personal taste, but a quality city has people with diverse tastes and habits, combined with options for all of them. As long as we're talking NYC, I'm sure there are plenty of Brooklynites who never venture into Manhattan, either.

Personally, I'd rather be in a place where buildings, people and easy walkability are favored over auto convenience. Until you tear down your close-knit buildings and replace them with surface lots (in which case you're no longer a downtown), parking will always have a price attached, whether overtly charged to the customer or charged to the establishment and then to the customer through a markup. I'm fine with downtown property not being as ostensibly worthless as suburban as to allow acre upon acre of surface lots and up-front strip-center parking.

Finally, in defense of Larry -- and I read his posts perhaps more thoroughly than most -- I don't think he "hates OKC" at all. He obviously is not fond of a lot of public spending and wants to make sure that if we are doing it we get our money's worth and what has been promised. Nothing wrong with that. He appears to be a numbers cruncher and seems to have a long memory combined with excellent cataloging/search skills.

He and I apparently have different entertainment and lifestyle tastes. I also believe that he sometimes overlooks the importance of urban lifestyle options to the overall health of a city. Nevertheless, I find the aforementioned contrarian insight he brings to this board pretty valuable at times.

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## Urbanized

One more point, by the way: I'd rather pay $40/mo for garage parking and get into my relatively cool (in summer) and ice-free (in winter) car at the end of the day than park free in a surface lot. Different people have different priorities.

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## Larry OKC

Criticism and defense duly noted. Most of my posts were in response to others so it isn't like I went on a 2-page rant all by myself. It is called dialog. And that's ok with me.

I also apologize if my last post came off a bit on the snarky side. I haven't read that part of the thread yet so don't know if it was mentioned, but even if it wasn't I do apologize. There was a much better way to have phrased it and I should have used it. It seemed that BDP & Pete (among others) were saying that DT is compact, that walking distances are relatively easy/short and of reasonable time. That seemed to be in agreement with Councilman White who questioned even the need for DT Streetcars. I liked the Streetcars and would have voted for them if they had appeared as a separate proposition on the Ballot, so don't misread this as being anti-Streetcar. But given what Pete & BDP posted, is there really a need for DT streetcar? And not trying to derail the thread so if you want to answer that in a more appropriate thread, feel free. I just wanted to clear that mess up.

Now that I got that out of the way, to answer the question about employees and what they thought. I know that when an employer of mine was thinking about relocating from 63rd & Meridian to DT, the thought about parking was a concern of EVERY employee. The company did not offer to cover the cost so EVERY employee considered it a cut in pay and voiced their opposition to the move. The company didn't end up relocating DT.

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## CCOKC

I have come to this discussion late but find it incredibly interesting.  I am in the process of moving my accounting practice and have narrowed our search to Midtown on Robinson with free parking or three office towers on the NW Expressway.  We love the space in Midtown and would move there in a second but we are afraid of our  "Larry" clients who are just afraid of the perception of the parking problems of downtown. (Sorry I really don't mean to pick on Larry, I can understand where he is coming from).

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## Larry OKC

> I have come to this discussion late but find it incredibly interesting.  I am in the process of moving my accounting practice and have narrowed our search to Midtown on Robinson with free parking or three office towers on the NW Expressway.  We love the space in Midtown and would move there in a second but we are afraid of our  "Larry" clients who are just afraid of the perception of the parking problems of downtown. (Sorry I really don't mean to pick on Larry, I can understand where he is coming from).


AAACKKK, don't you dare do that on something little ol' me said ... I will be blamed for business not being there! I am not a client of yours so don't let me influence you in the least!

LOL.  Other than that, no worries here CCOKC. And I officially wave the white flag on this one. 
 :Whiteflag1:  :Whiteflag1:  :Whiteflag1: 
Let me state without reservation or disclaimer...

*THERE IS NO PARKING PROBLEM DOWNTOWN OR ANYWHERE IN OKC!,*

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## OKC@heart

> I have come to this discussion late but find it incredibly interesting.  I am in the process of moving my accounting practice and have narrowed our search to Midtown on Robinson with free parking or three office towers on the NW Expressway.  We love the space in Midtown and would move there in a second but we are afraid of our  "Larry" clients who are just afraid of the perception of the parking problems of downtown. (Sorry I really don't mean to pick on Larry, I can understand where he is coming from).


CCOKC as one who helps dentists buy and sell their practices and mergers and acquisitions, let me reassure you that the clients typically are not as fickle as that. The reason that they come to you and remain with you is becuase of the service that you provide and the fact that they have had a good track record during the time you have served them.  Trust me clients do not wish to have to spend the time and money to try to find someone else whom with the results are not known or proven when the only issue by only a small fraction of them is that they have to find a spot to park in. As a business owner at a time of change it is natural to feel some trepidation as you look as what are the possible outcomes both positive and negative.  If the move is good for your company, needed, and will enhance the experience of your workforce as well as position yourself to better accomplish your longterm goals then there is really little to dwell on; make that call, stick with it and don't look back!  

Good luck in your coming relocation!

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## OSUMom

The only thing I do know about parking DT is that the Broadway Kerr garage is pretty darned full.  Hopefully this new business will locate their employees at another parking garage.  But that's just me being selfish.   :Smile:

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## dmoor82

I should have made this thread about dt parking!LOL

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## betts

> I have come to this discussion late but find it incredibly interesting.  I am in the process of moving my accounting practice and have narrowed our search to Midtown on Robinson with free parking or three office towers on the NW Expressway.  We love the space in Midtown and would move there in a second but we are afraid of our  "Larry" clients who are just afraid of the perception of the parking problems of downtown. (Sorry I really don't mean to pick on Larry, I can understand where he is coming from).


If there is parking associated with the building in Midtown, I doubt there would be a problem.  How many customers would you have in your office at any given time?  If they need to use a garage or unassociated lot you might get some resistance, I suppose.

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## Just the facts

> I have come to this discussion late but find it incredibly interesting.  I am in the process of moving my accounting practice and have narrowed our search to Midtown on Robinson with free parking or three office towers on the NW Expressway.  We love the space in Midtown and would move there in a second but we are afraid of our  "Larry" clients who are just afraid of the perception of the parking problems of downtown. (Sorry I really don't mean to pick on Larry, I can understand where he is coming from).


I can think of a location that is about to get 2,000 potential new clients - all within walking distance.  That location is downtown. You are concerned about people having to drive, when there are thousands that are close enough to walk.  Just something to think about.

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## CCOKC

Thanks for the encouragement guys.  We just walked from Kaisers to the building which took 5 minutes, all on a sidewalk.  I was surprised about how may people were walking and driving aroung the area on a Sunday afternoon.  This is particularly important because we work every Saturday and Sunday from January through April and I really want ot make sure our staff is safe during after hours times.  To answer the question about how how many clients visit us on at any given time, that is difficult to say.  Our two tax guys have about 7 appointments a week 6 days a week and we have 5 people an hour picking up or dropping off returns an hour.  The rest of the year drop off considerably.

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## hoya

I see the problem.  Larry and Bomber just don't know where to park.  I understand that.  I don't have any problem finding a free place to park, but I've worked downtown for several years.

I work at the courthouse.  Court starts at 9:00.  I leave my house at 8:30.  About 8:45 I get off of I-240 on Classen.  Around 8:50 I park for free somewhere on Film Row.  There is a lot of free street parking there.  It takes me about ten minutes to walk to the courthouse.  I normally walk in right at 9:00.  I have worked downtown for 4 years.  I have yet to pay $1 to park for work.  Some people in my office are lazy, and they don't want to walk 5 or 6 blocks.  They pay $100 every 3 months for a spot in a small parking garage a block from the courthouse.  Me, I'm grumpy in the morning, so I need a good 5 or 6 block walk to wake up and mellow out so I don't yell at people first thing.  There is also free street parking on W. California between Dewey and Lee.  It's right by the Better Business Bureau.

When I go to Thunder games, I park in the free lot south of Bass Pro.  A lot of people park there, but I have always managed to find a spot within about 2 minutes.  It's about a 10 or 12 minute walk from there to the Ford Center.  If you're going to eat in Bricktown, you can park in the giant lot by Toby Keith's.  It's rarely full.  Another option if you're going to be downtown late in the evening, park in the Main Street Parking Garage.  You park your car in there and take the little ticket to get in, but they pull their attendants around 8 or 9:00 at night and just leave the gates open, so if you're going to be there that late, it's free.  That means more free parking, Thunder fans.

Parking downtown is only a problem for people who don't regularly go downtown.  If you go once every six months and see all these signs saying "Parking $10", and you're not sure where to go, then I'm sure it can leave the impression that there's not enough parking.  And sure, there's not enough free parking for 400 new people to come in and all of us to park on the street in Film Row.  Part of the reason there is enough parking is because there are people who do pay to park every day.  And eventually the city will grow to the point that I'll have to bite the bullet and pay for a spot.  But that day isn't here yet.

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## ljbab728

hoyasooner, I'm just confused about one thing in your post.  Where does I240 have an exit onto Classen?  I240 only runs along the south side of OKC.  Maybe you're talking about I44?

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## ThePlainsman

> OK, I don't understand this move...
> 
> Again, I just dont understand what it gets them. So now they have proximity to other energy companies. So what. It's not as though they interact with each other....there's no B2B there.


There's no B2B there??  Really?  Do you know how many oil and gas companies are downtown? More than you think. A ton of energy companies are private and although smaller (in your eyes), they make plenty of production and employ many people.  And, believe it or not, they do business with Enogex.  Enogex gathers, transports, and processes natural gas and ngls.  There is a ton of daily business that they do with folks other than CHK, SD, Devon, CLR, and other public companies.  Nearly every time a well is drilled in proximity to one of their pipelines, their folks and the energy company's folks sit down and negotiate a contract.  Yes, sometimes not always face to face.  But probably more times than you realize.

What this really does though is put the Enogex people closer to the OGE people. And for the folks who don't know this, the CEO, COO of OGE are former Enogex Presidents. Pete and Danny have both been in charge of Enogex and the executive pipeline for OGE seems to run through Enogex these days.  I'm sure you don't know this, but that makes sense because Enogex, for the most part, is an unregulated entity (they have some certificated pipeline and are subject to regulatory oversight, but not regulated in the sense of rate of return, like a utility).  The experience and the entrepreneurial mindset it takes to run a business that is unregulated does benefit OGE when they transfer executives in from Enogex.  

Plus, I think the OGE executives are pro-OKC and see this as an opportunity to contribute to the forward momentum in the CBD.

In regards to parking, I know that SBC (ATT) used to not pay for parking.  I have no idea if they do now.  The companies I am personally aware of pay for parking.  It's typically seen as part of an employment package.  If not, then one needs to learn negotiating skills and include it for themselves.

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## Rover

There is a naive group here who believe the only reason for existence of downtown is as a large apartment complex.  Downtowns are based on commerce and the living portion of it has traditionally been for the convenience of those who work in those businesses.  The people who believe that urban life is first and foremost about bars and boutiques, cafes and entertainment, ignore the economic realities and probably have very little sense of business.

Enogex isn't moving downtown because of cute cafes, but rather the convenience and efficiency of their business partners being nearby.  That business group demands financial partners, therefore more banking and financial services will tend to move near them.  With more banking and commercial services, more other companies will move there.  With more clients downtown, more services like IT companies will move there.  Soon we get a diversified and healthy business core.  And, each of those companies will employ people who want to live, work and play downtown.  The condos and cafes everyone wants will organically occur.

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## hoya

> hoyasooner, I'm just confused about one thing in your post.  Where does I240 have an exit onto Classen?  I240 only runs along the south side of OKC.  Maybe you're talking about I44?


Meant I-40.  The Crosstown.  My bad.  :Smile:

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## bombermwc

Well see that's the sort of explanation that's helpful rather than just spouting a bunch of rude comments, so thank you ThePlainsman. I wish people in the know on questions would offer up answers more often in comparison to those who just want to start some name calling.

Knowing that bit of info, it seems to make sense. I was under the impression that they were another oil company, not really more of a service provider (pipes and whatnot). So in their case, B2B works....even if their rent is going to be much higher....and hoefully they work out a parking cost structure for their employees.

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## Just the facts

Why do you assume their rent is going up?  Downtown has the lowest rental rates in the metro area.

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## bombermwc

Um no...that's totally wrong. If you're talking about the Class C space like at FNC, maybe because no one wants it. Class A like at Leadership Square isn't cheap. Now you might find some high rates on Memorial in the new buildings, but suburban space like what they are moving out of...nope.

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## Just the facts

I'll take you word for it then bombermwc.  I don't have access to the new lease or the old lease to know how much they spend on rent.

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## Rover

> Um no...that's totally wrong. If you're talking about the Class C space like at FNC, maybe because no one wants it. Class A like at Leadership Square isn't cheap. Now you might find some high rates on Memorial in the new buildings, but suburban space like what they are moving out of...nope.


I've been looking at space for locating a couple of companies, and downtown is in general cheaper than comparable buildings on NW Expressway, Memorial/Kilpatrick, Broadway Ext..  There is also a problem with finding enough contiguous space in Class A or even B buildings in favorable locations.

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## Urbanized

I have an extra advantage due to living downtown, but even factoring this out the amount of fuel I save on daily errands, making it to meetings, etc., is substantial when compared to working in the 'burbs. If a company does a large amount of their business with downtown firms, I promise you fuel savings offsets monthly parking as an expense.

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