# Civic Matters > Ask Anything About OKC >  1980 Guest House Murders

## Lynne

Looking for any info on this story.

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## Pete

Very good summary in the link below, which is a PDF of the appeal by Maynard.

Scroll down to I. Background B. Guest House Murders (last section):

http://www.texasdefenselawyers.com/C...ases/Bowen.pdf




> A notorious triple murder occurred in Oklahoma City on July 6, 1980 at
> approximately 2:00 a.m. Ray Peters, Lawrence Evans, and Marvin Nowlin were fatally
> shot as they sat around a poolside table at the Guest House Inn motel. Although the
> murder weapon was not found, bullets and *597 shell casings recovered at the scene
> revealed that a .45 caliber automatic weapon with silver-tipped, hollow point
> bullets had been used. Several witnesses related that an unfamiliar man had been
> seen in the pool concession area before the shooting and that, after gunshots were
> heard, he ran and fled in a waiting vehicle.

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## Lynne

> Very good summary in the link below, which is a PDF of the appeal by Maynard.
> 
> Scroll down to I. Background B. Guest House Murders (last section):
> 
> http://www.texasdefenselawyers.com/C...ases/Bowen.pdf


Ray Peters was my ex-husband. This is a lot more than just a common crime. There is a secret or two and a distinct impression the killer was in no way the guy they convicted. In fact it wasn't even a guy.

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## Lynne

Bowen was released in 1986. He didn't do it.

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## Lynne

Ray Peters was my ex husband and my friend. There is much more to this story and the wrong man went to jail ( Clifford Henry Bowen~~he was released in 1986) but the real murderer is still free.

Gonna ghost this baby into a crime thriller, third person but I need releases from many people. Not all the principles are dead yet,

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## OKCRT

Was this a mafia related hit? That is the old rumor I remember.

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## kevinpate

If memory serves, this was the great phantom plane case, a yarn spun by the prosecution in an attempt to thrash the alibi of the defendant.

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## Lynne

> Was this a mafia related hit? That is the old rumor I remember.


Dixie Mafia for sure.  Kirksey Nix, Paul Mazzella  the whole bag of horrors

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## Lynne

> If memory serves, this was the great phantom plane case, a yarn spun by the prosecution in an attempt to thrash the alibi of the defendant.


  Good call and yes the whole thing was messed up. It involved an OKC detective, the Dixie mafia, prostitution, drugs and whatever else they could throw in there. Im not defending Ray. He was a dilaudid user at the end and talked too much, but Clifford Henry Bowen wasn't the guy. In fact it wasn't even a guy that arranged things. Lots of twists and turns. The more I learn the weirder it gets. Thing is I knew these people, knew what they were capable of and even now people don't want to talk about it. I left the City in 76, thank God. I was young but even  I could see sh## was getting real.

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## ljbab728

> Looking for any info on this story.


Is there any particular reason you're looking for information after so many years?

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## Lynne

> Is there any particular reason you're looking for information after so many years?


WOW! Great question. Yes. I knew Ray was killed about a year after it happened. I was in Ft Lauderdale by then, we split in 72/73. saw him once more in 75 ( he called me in Houston and I flew to Dallas to see him) he'd been shot, and NOT by who he said did it) I didn't catch it at the time, but court records have cleared that up. Now recent re-connections with old (emphasis on 'old', I'm 66 now) friends have given me an entire new take. I never knew any of the particulars and the more I began to dig the weirder it got. Ray was a semi pimp, not in the old movie sense of standing outside the building and  psst psst-ing in the tricks but the kind of guy that took care of me. Hot bath when I got home, a good joint, or  glass of wine, whatever and then we drove to some all night joint, the Canadian Club out by Tuttle (if memory serves) and danced and socialized all night with our own kind. Hot pony cars, sleeping all day, working half the night and playing the rest. We didn't work the streets. Back in the day it was all call service, more Klute than Taxi Driver. there was no need for an actual pimp. They called it 'joining each other out.' As in out into 'the life'.
It was hedonistic and self-indulgent but we were kids and it was never going to end, right?

Ray was good to me, if you can get your head around that. Lots of girls didn't have it half as good as me and my friends did. No beatings, no terrorizing unless I was in a bad mood.In our own way we lived a very normal life.

so to answer your question, do I want to re-live that and  make it more beautiful than it was? Maybe. But sometimes it just comes down to your own 'life more examined' and plus there is some real Quinton Tarrantino stuff that went on. it's a great story, with or without me being included in any of it.
You pick.

Thanks for you insightful question. I think this is where a lot of the ideas come from.

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## Lynne

> Good call and yes the whole thing was messed up. It involved an OKC detective, the Dixie mafia, prostitution, drugs and whatever else they could throw in there. Im not defending Ray. He was a dilaudid user at the end and talked too much, but Clifford Henry Bowen wasn't the guy. In fact it wasn't even a guy that arranged things. Lots of twists and turns. The more I learn the weirder it gets. Thing is I knew these people, knew what they were capable of and even now people don't want to talk about it. I left the City in 76, thank God. I was young but even  I could see sh## was getting real.





> Very good summary in the link below, which is a PDF of the appeal by Maynard.
> 
> Scroll down to I. Background B. Guest House Murders (last section):
> 
> http://www.texasdefenselawyers.com/C...ases/Bowen.pdf


Yeah, i appreciate the summary but I'm way past that now.It was a good starting point but it's too dry to tell the real story. But you looked it up and for that I'm grateful.

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## ljbab728

> WOW! Great question. Yes. I knew Ray was killed about a year after it happened. I was in Ft Lauderdale by then, we split in 72/73. saw him once more in 75 ( he called me in Houston and I flew to Dallas to see him) he'd been shot, and NOT by who he said did it) I didn't catch it at the time, but court records have cleared that up. Now recent re-connections with old (emphasis on 'old', I'm 66 now) friends have given me an entire new take. I never knew any of the particulars and the more I began to dig the weirder it got. Ray was a semi pimp, not in the old movie sense of standing outside the building and  psst psst-ing in the tricks but the kind of guy that took care of me. Hot bath when I got home, a good joint, or  glass of wine, whatever and then we drove to some all night joint, the Canadian Club out by Tuttle (if memory serves) and danced and socialized all night with our own kind. Hot pony cars, sleeping all day, working half the night and playing the rest. We didn't work the streets. Back in the day it was all call service, more Klute than Taxi Driver. there was no need for an actual pimp. They called it 'joining each other out.' As in out into 'the life'.
> It was hedonistic and self-indulgent but we were kids and it was never going to end, right?
> 
> Ray was good to me, if you can get your head around that. Lots of girls didn't have it half as good as me and my friends did. No beatings, no terrorizing unless I was in a bad mood.In our own way we lived a very normal life.
> 
> so to answer your question, do I want to re-live that and  make it more beautiful than it was? Maybe. But sometimes it just comes down to your own 'life more examined' and plus there is some real Quinton Tarrantino stuff that went on. it's a great story, with or without me being included in any of it.
> You pick.
> 
> Thanks for you insightful question. I think this is where a lot of the ideas come from.


That's interesting.  A couple of side thought are that 66 isn't old because that's my age.  LOL  
If you're talking about the same Canadian Club I knew about it was on County Line Road on the east side of Mustang where Fireworks City is now.

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## RadicalModerate

For what it's worth, I think this story would make a great crime "novel" and I, for one, would probably buy a copy.  And I'm not a big crime or crime fiction reader. (I think the last crime novel I read was "Blood Will Tell" about that Cullen Davis deal that happened down in Ft. Worth many, many, years ago.  And about the same time, "Helter Skelter" "The Family" and later "Outrage" Vincent Bugliosi's coverage of the O.J. Simpson debacle.)

One thing that I find especially interesting here is your reference to "examining your life."
There is an old saying that "the unexamined life isn't worth living."

(b.t.w.: it wasn't six months ago that a fellow I work with was reminiscing about The Canadian Club (and what is now Gabriella's) as hotbeds of gambling.  I seem to recall that somehow Cattlemen's Caf entered into that round of local nostalgia.  I'm only 61 and only hung out on the Far East Side of the OKC Metro back when all this was going down, so I could only imagine some of the things he was sharing.  We had some pretty bad dudes out there too, so I could relate.)

(the most recent "crime" "novel" I read is "The Mark Inside" by Amy Reading. I still recommend it to any doubters regarding the actual value of "humbug.' =)

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## Lynne

> That's interesting.  A couple of side thought are that 66 isn't old because that's my age.  LOL  
> If you're talking about the same Canadian Club I knew about it was on County Line Road on the east side of Mustang where Fireworks City is now.


That's the one. There isn't a single reference to that place anywhere that I can find on the net.
It was a 'character' hangout, for sure , as in 'police character'. I don't know about the gambling in 68-72 but we went there to dance. It certainly was where every night crawler wound up sooner or later. Interesting thing about OKC 'underground' society back then. It was very small so you might sit down at a table with two hookers, a second story guy, a professional gambler, two queens and a Jr. Senator from somewhere down around Madill. And one of the queens would be sitting on the Jr Senator's lap.

Good times.

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## Lynne

> For what it's worth, I think this story would make a great crime "novel" and I, for one, would probably buy a copy.  And I'm not a big crime or crime fiction reader. (I think the last crime novel I read was "Blood Will Tell" about that Cullen Davis deal that happened down in Ft. Worth many, many, years ago.  And about the same time, "Helter Skelter" "The Family" and later "Outrage" Vincent Bugliosi's coverage of the O.J. Simpson debacle.)
> 
> One thing that I find especially interesting here is your reference to "examining your life."
> There is an old saying that "the unexamined life isn't worth living."
> 
> (b.t.w.: it wasn't six months ago that a fellow I work with was reminiscing about The Canadian Club (and what is now Gabriella's) as hotbeds of gambling.  I seem to recall that somehow Cattlemen's Caf entered into that round of local nostalgia.  I'm only 61 and only hung out on the Far East Side of the OKC Metro back when all this was going down, so I could only imagine some of the things he was sharing.  We had some pretty bad dudes out there too, so I could relate.)
> 
> (the most recent "crime" "novel" I read is "The Mark Inside" by Amy Reading. I still recommend it to any doubters regarding the actual value of "humbug.' =)


I'm never been big on true crime novels as they can be rather dry, if that's the word I'm looking for. I remember 'Small Sacrifices', about Diane Downs, the woman who shot her three children that left an impression. And not just because Farrah Fawcett played her in the movie. As I mentioned earlier. I had a little tryst with a Star Spenser boy named Ron McBeth that made his own waves for a while. NOT a nice guy. Also remember some talk about the Heath brothers.

As for 'the un-examined life' yes, the very quote I was referencing. Good call.

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## Lynne

I'd also like to take a mo to appreciate your support of my own personal theory that you truly are as young as you feel. And now that you mention it Cattleman's was another 'one of those places' where things always seemed to be happening.

As for the east side,  yikes! Them Star Spenser guys were no slouches!

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## Lynne

If I'm not responding correctly to the right person I beg an indulgence. Even a simple format such as this takes time to get the hang of. I just appreciate every response so much I get excited to do each one justice. Nothing is too small nor in any way unimportant. The lapse in manners is mine, I assure you.

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## gen70

Marvin Nowlin was a friend of mine from grade school until his death. Did you know that his father was killed by an OKC policeman?

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## RadicalModerate

> That's the one. There isn't a single reference to that place anywhere that I can find on the net.
> It was a 'character' hangout, for sure , as in 'police character'. I don't know about the gambling in 68-72 but we went there to dance. It certainly was where every night crawler wound up sooner or later. Interesting thing about OKC 'underground' society back then. It was very small so you might sit down at a table with two hookers, a second story guy, a professional gambler, two queens and a Jr. Senator from somewhere down around Madill. And one of the queens would be sitting on the Jr Senator's lap.
> 
> Good times.


Way back in the day . . . Far before my time . . . A noted Lawman, felled while on duty in semi-retirement, acting on behalf of Law and Order, the trail of a Fugitive from Justice who got shot in Cromwell (a former Oil Boom Town) "bit the bullet" down around Madill.  Perhaps in the vicinity of Kingston.  On second thought it was probably Madill.

[please allow me a moment or two to properly reconstruct the "facts" of the case . . . thank you]

While you are on hold . . . check out the William "Bill" Tilghmann file . . .
(there is a reason They call it "The Thin Blue Line" . . . =)

After all . . . It was Oklahoma.

Thank "Goodness" we have evolved in a generally positive direction since then.

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## gen70

Good to know, Rad.

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## rezman

> Also remember some talk about the Heath brothers.


I worked with a couple guys who grew up in the east metro... Harrah.. Mcloud areas... Both new the Heath boys and had a few stories to tell.

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## OKCRT

> I worked with a couple guys who grew up in the east metro... Harrah.. Mcloud areas... Both new the Heath boys and had a few stories to tell.


Do you remember Podie Poe? Where exactly was his gambling joint and how did he get away with it for so long?

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## stick47

> Way back in the day . . . Far before my time . . . A noted Lawman, felled while on duty in semi-retirement, acting on behalf of Law and Order, the trail of a Fugitive from Justice who got shot in Cromwell (a former Oil Boom Town) "bit the bullet" down around Madill.  Perhaps in the vicinity of Kingston.  On second thought it was probably Madill.
> 
> [please allow me a moment or two to properly reconstruct the "facts" of the case . . . thank you]
> 
> While you are on hold . . . check out the William "Bill" Tilghmann file . . .
> (there is a reason They call it "The Thin Blue Line" . . . =)
> 
> After all . . . It was Oklahoma.
> 
> Thank "Goodness" we have evolved in a generally positive direction since then.



Wylie Linn I think was his name. Two of my uncles were at the scene when Mr Tilhman and Linn were outside waiting to be transferred to the Ardmore hospital. As they loaded one into the ambulance they told the other to get in but he (I don't recall which man said it) said "Hell no! I'm not riding with that SOB" and the Madill Dr couldn't save him. Both men died.
More info Wiley Lynn - Topic

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## boscorama

This is interesting. Keep it coming.




> If I'm not responding correctly to the right person I beg an indulgence. Even a simple format such as this takes time to get the hang of. I just appreciate every response so much I get excited to do each one justice. Nothing is too small nor in any way unimportant. The lapse in manners is mine, I assure you.

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## Lynne

The people I'm concerned with all came from down around Madill, even the detective. Which is another one of those plot twists I'd like to talk about. Kingston, Ardmore Tishomingo, Durant (and that's DOO rant to the uninitiated) Broken Bow. . .the whole area  was and is still known as 'Little Dixie'. Must be something in the water. The Little Dixie Mafia rivaled anybody for out and out audacity. They have a street in Ardmore that used to be called Bloody Caddo.

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## Lynne

That'd be the great Deputy Marshal  Bill Tilghman, one of Oklahoma's famous "Three Guardsmen," and if memory serves one of Oklahoma City's first police chiefs.

I quote
'In 1910 Tilghman was elected to the state senate but resigned in 1911 to serve as Oklahoma City's police chief. Beginning in 1908 he helped film four Western motion pictures, including The Passing of the Oklahoma Outlaws, released in 1915. Tilghman exhibited that film for several years.

In August 1924 at age seventy he was persuaded to leave retirement and became city marshal at Cromwell, a booming Oklahoma oil town. On November 1, 1924, a drunken prohibition agent, Wiley Lynn, shot Tilghman twice with a hideout gun, killing the last great peace officer of the Old West. The murderer won acquittal, only to be shot and killed in 1932. Zoe Tilghman bitterly observed, "No jury on earth can acquit him now."

I bet she was every bit as tough as her husband.


The irony shouldn't be lost he was killed by a drunken prohibition officer.

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## Achilleslastand

> Do you remember Podie Poe? Where exactly was his gambling joint and how did he get away with it for so long?


Here is a thread about Poe...
http://www.okctalk.com/nostalgia-mem...-pody-poe.html

I recall asking and someone telling me his address in NH and for the life of me cant remember it. I also forgot that he also owned hook and slice which used to sit about a 1/4 mile south of Wilshire west of Broadway{235}.

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## Lynne

I had no idea. I didn't know the other two men. They seemed like innocent by-standers killed so there'd be no witnesses. I did know a Glenn Nowlin. But that was way before any of this. Curiouser and curiouser, isn't it?
I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. Was he the Vietnam vet???

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## Bellaboo

Back in the early '80s, I worked with Pody's brother Pat for a about a year, but didn't get to know him very well at all.

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## Lynne

> Marvin Nowlin was a friend of mine from grade school until his death. Did you know that his father was killed by an OKC policeman?



I don't know too much about the other guys.Yet. They seemed like innocent bystanders. Was he the Vietnam vet? 
I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend.

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## gen70

> I don't know too much about the other guys.Yet. They seemed like innocent bystanders. Was he the Vietnam vet? 
> I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend.


Yes he was a Vietnam vet. and I had visited him at his apt. just a few weeks before the murders. While at his apt. I also met the other two victims.

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## rezman

> Do you remember Podie Poe? Where exactly was his gambling joint and how did he get away with it for so long?


I remember hearing about Podie Poe back then, but one the coworkers knew him and mentioned him from time to time.  

I have a friend who's last name was well known in certain circles, and who's dad was involed in the gambling, nightclub scene. I talk to him every couple of weeks or so and I'll ask him. .. He's got some good stories to tell.

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## Jim Kyle

> The people I'm concerned with all came from down around Madill, even the detective. Which is another one of those plot twists I'd like to talk about. Kingston, Ardmore Tishomingo, Durant (and that's DOO rant to the uninitiated) Broken Bow. . .the whole area  was and is still known as 'Little Dixie'. Must be something in the water. The Little Dixie Mafia rivaled anybody for out and out audacity. They have a street in Ardmore that used to be called Bloody Caddo.


Back in late 1954, I went to my first newspaper job as the sole fulltime reporter for The Daily Ardmoreite. I'm quite familiar with Little Dixie and its mafia. Ever deal with George Fuqua, whose activities forced the Highway Patrol to stop using unmarked cars?

Quite a few of those folk had ties to northwest Louisiana, as well...

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## Jim Kyle

> Here is a thread about Poe...
> http://www.okctalk.com/nostalgia-mem...-pody-poe.html
> 
> I recall asking and someone telling me his address in NH and for the life of me cant remember it. I also forgot that he also owned hook and slice which used to sit about a 1/4 mile south of Wilshire west of Broadway{235}.


Pody was an alumnus of Classen high school, and contributed a copy of his autobiography to our alumni association's museum. Unfortunately the museum has been closed for several years due to the MAPS renovation of the Classen building; we hope to have it open to the public again sometime this summer, though, and everything in our "Authors Alley" collection (including works by Bill Gulick and Louis L'Amour) can be read by any visitor.

Many of his games were held at his home in Nichols Hills...

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## Lynne

> Yes he was a Vietnam vet. and I had visited him at his apt. just a few weeks before the murders. While at his apt. I also met the other two victims.



You met Ray??? Describe him.

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## Lynne

> Back in late 1954, I went to my first newspaper job as the sole fulltime reporter for The Daily Ardmoreite. I'm quite familiar with Little Dixie and its mafia. Ever deal with George Fuqua, whose activities forced the Highway Patrol to stop using unmarked cars?
> 
> Quite a few of those folk had ties to northwest Louisiana, as well...


Before my time, but wow!. . . what great information. This is such a character -rich environment. I want to hear more, more more.

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## Lynne

Just as an aside, for those interested in Oklahoma bad guys  and good guys there is a book called 'Oklahoma Justice, the Oklahoma City Police. A century of Gunfighters, gangsters and Terrorists.' by Ron Owens. Owens is a ex-OCPD whom I've tried to get in touch with, so far without any results. The story I'm interested in is covered there, it's rich in leads and has almost become my handbook.
Caution: you are gonna pay dear for the thing but if you are an Oklahoma City buff, this book is great.

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## Lynne

> Back in late 1954, I went to my first newspaper job as the sole fulltime reporter for The Daily Ardmoreite. I'm quite familiar with Little Dixie and its mafia. Ever deal with George Fuqua, whose activities forced the Highway Patrol to stop using unmarked cars?
> 
> Quite a few of those folk had ties to northwest Louisiana, as well...


We are getting into 'Justified' territory also, are we not??

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## OKCRT

> Back in late 1954, I went to my first newspaper job as the sole fulltime reporter for The Daily Ardmoreite. I'm quite familiar with Little Dixie and its mafia. Ever deal with George Fuqua, whose activities forced the Highway Patrol to stop using unmarked cars?
> 
> Quite a few of those folk had ties to northwest Louisiana, as well...


Any relation to Lake Fuqua that is down around those parts I believe? In fact I caught a few nice bass in that lake years ago.

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## kevinpate

Lake Fuqua is not really Little Dixie in my mind anyway. It is east of Marlow a few miles, ENE of Duncan and SSW of Lindsey, and SE of the hamlet of Bray.
Nice little lake, rarely crowded.  Had some camping on its east side if memory serves.  It was also a water sports source for one of the GS properties I used to assist with (96-05).

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## Jim Kyle

> Any relation to Lake Fuqua that is down around those parts I believe? In fact I caught a few nice bass in that lake years ago.


George operated mostly in the Dallas area but to the best of my knowledge, his parents lived in Healdton and he did quite a bit in the way of hijacking bootleggers around Love, Carter, and Jefferson counties in the mid-50s. 

During my first week on the job in Ardmore, the top local bootlegger got hijacked on US 70 between Ardmore and Waurika while returning from Wichita Falls with a full load of booze in his Caddie Coupe de Ville. The baddie put a bullet through the radiator of the Cadillac to prevent being pursued. I interviewed the victim, who insisted that nothing at all had happened -- but the sheriff had a different story!

George's M.O. was to drive a black Ford sedan and use a hand-held red spotlight to cause his victims to pull over. At the time, the OHP used identical vehicles to catch speeders along US 77 (I35 hadn't even been surveyed yet), and the bootleggers were quite willing to stop and get a speeding ticket since they knew that OHP never searched for contraband on normal traffic stops.

What brought it to an end was the night that George tried to stop a Caddie coming in fron Texas at high speed, and the Caddie didn't pull over. Instead, the driver accelerated, and George gave chase. Somewhere between Thackerville and Marietta, the Caddie left the pavement and tied itself in a bow around a large tree with fatal results to the driver -- who turned out to be the owner of a trucking company in Gainesville, who was on his way to a major accident involving one of his trucks! That put a spotlight on the OHP practice, and a few weeks later a trooper made the mistake of stopping a state legislator by way of an unmarked car. The legislature immediately banned the use of unmarked vehicles by the OHP, which forced George to change his M.O.

Several years ago I did a Google search for George and found that he perished in what was presumed to be a contract killing, along with his girl friend, quite some time after I had left Ardmore.

One of the reasons that Little Dixie has such a reputation for lawlessness is that until 1959, alcohol had *never* been legal in the area. Prior to statehood in 1907, Oklahoma Territory had legal saloons -- but Indian Territory never permitted legal alcohol. This gave rise to bootlegging as an honorable family business, and since it was illegal, lawmen could not protect its practicioners from predators, thus giving rise to the Dixie Mafia. Incidentally, I'm told that this tradition exists to this day, and given the disappearance of an entire family a couple of years ago down there, I'm inclined to believe that this is true.

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## KenRagsdale

Thanks, Jim Kyle, for the background.  Writing previously for "The McAlester Democrat," I appreciate your recollections greatly.  Francis/Gene Stipe were owners of the "Democrat," at that time, and they were always gracious to me.  I know a bit about Oklahoma liquor laws.  Of course, had it not been for Governor J. Howard Edmonson, J. Howard Edmondson--What&#39;s My Line - YouTube, and his Attorney General, Joe Cannon, Judge Joe Cannon | News OK, "liquor by the wink," in 1959 would not have happened.  It was a windfall for retail liquor-package store owners both at the time, and to this day.  Both Edmondson and Cannon were from Muskogee.  I would recommend, and encourage you to memorialize in writing your recollections and forward to Dr. Bob Blackburn at the Oklahoma Historical 
Society for archive.

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## Lynne

> Thanks, Jim Kyle, for the background.  Writing previously for "The McAlester Democrat," I appreciate your recollections greatly.  Francis/Gene Stipe were owners of the "Democrat," at that time, and they were always gracious to me.  I know a bit about Oklahoma liquor laws.  Of course, had it not been for Governor J. Howard Edmonson, J. Howard Edmondson--What's My Line - YouTube, and his Attorney General, Joe Cannon, Judge Joe Cannon | News OK, "liquor by the wink," in 1959 would not have happened.  It was a windfall for retail liquor-package store owners both at the time, and to this day.  Both Edmondson and Cannon were from Muskogee.  I would recommend, and encourage you to memorialize in writing your recollections and forward to Dr. Bob Blackburn at the Oklahoma Historical 
> Society for archive.


Edmonson ran for Gov when I was about 8 or 9 years old. His opponent, Atkinson ran one of the dirtiest campaigns in Oklahoma history, as far as we knew at the time. There were even allegations that Edmondson had raped a girl. He won anyway and I think Atkinson went on to start a paper . . was it the Journal?. . out in Midwest City.

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## ljbab728

> Edmonson ran for Gov when I was about 8 or 9 years old. His opponent, Atkinson ran one of the dirtiest campaigns in Oklahoma history, as far as we knew at the time. There were even allegations that Edmondson had raped a girl. He won anyway and I think Atkinson went on to start a paper . . was it the Journal?. . out in Midwest City.


Yes, it was the Oklahoma Journal.  I used to subscribe to that paper. (along the Oklahoman, the Oklahoma City Times, and the Norman Transcript)

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## Lynne

> George operated mostly in the Dallas area but to the best of my knowledge, his parents lived in Healdton and he did quite a bit in the way of hijacking bootleggers around Love, Carter, and Jefferson counties in the mid-50s. 
> 
> During my first week on the job in Ardmore, the top local bootlegger got hijacked on US 70 between Ardmore and Waurika while returning from Wichita Falls with a full load of booze in his Caddie Coupe de Ville. The baddie put a bullet through the radiator of the Cadillac to prevent being pursued. I interviewed the victim, who insisted that nothing at all had happened -- but the sheriff had a different story!
> 
> George's M.O. was to drive a black Ford sedan and use a hand-held red spotlight to cause his victims to pull over. At the time, the OHP used identical vehicles to catch speeders along US 77 (I35 hadn't even been surveyed yet), and the bootleggers were quite willing to stop and get a speeding ticket since they knew that OHP never searched for contraband on normal traffic stops.
> 
> What brought it to an end was the night that George tried to stop a Caddie coming in fron Texas at high speed, and the Caddie didn't pull over. Instead, the driver accelerated, and George gave chase. Somewhere between Thackerville and Marietta, the Caddie left the pavement and tied itself in a bow around a large tree with fatal results to the driver -- who turned out to be the owner of a trucking company in Gainesville, who was on his way to a major accident involving one of his trucks! That put a spotlight on the OHP practice, and a few weeks later a trooper made the mistake of stopping a state legislator by way of an unmarked car. The legislature immediately banned the use of unmarked vehicles by the OHP, which forced George to change his M.O.
> 
> Several years ago I did a Google search for George and found that he perished in what was presumed to be a contract killing, along with his girl friend, quite some time after I had left Ardmore.
> ...


Amazing. I love these stories. Speaking of the Dixie Mafia another char that keeps popping up is Carl 'Geno' Hines. I know you know that name. He and Ray came up together and I had the privilege of throwing him and his tweaker friends out of my house on more than one occasion. Ray and I got along just fine until Carl and his traveling freak show came into town and when they did my world was turned upside down. I knew before it was over I'd have to bail Ray and probably myself out of jail, or I'd have to move or at least have my house tossed. I REALLY hated that guy. He was named in one of the trials as the leader of the Little Dixie Mafia at the time but that sounds more like Carl's own ego or some over-zealous newspaper guys twist on an already impossibly outrageous  story. He died in the  Ft Worth Federal prison last year.

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## Lynne

> Yes, it was the Oklahoma Journal.  I used to subscribe to that paper. (along the Oklahoman, the Oklahoma City Times, and the Norman Transcript)


That's right. Remember that song
 'I gotta be more than just two lines 
  in the Oklahoma City Times' ?

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## Lynne

> Here is a thread about Poe...
> http://www.okctalk.com/nostalgia-mem...-pody-poe.html
> 
> I recall asking and someone telling me his address in NH and for the life of me cant remember it. I also forgot that he also owned hook and slice which used to sit about a 1/4 mile south of Wilshire west of Broadway{235}.



I never met Pody Poe to my knowledge but of course everybody knew about him.

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## Lynne

Fourth Time No Charm: Guilty Again, Jury Says | News OK

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## boscorama

I was about 7 or 8.

E-D-M-O-N-D   *   S-O-N spells Edmondson ....




> Edmonson ran for Gov when I was about 8 or 9 years old. His opponent, Atkinson ran one of the dirtiest campaigns in Oklahoma history, as far as we knew at the time. There were even allegations that Edmondson had raped a girl. He won anyway and I think Atkinson went on to start a paper . . was it the Journal?. . out in Midwest City.

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## Lynne

> Back in late 1954, I went to my first newspaper job as the sole fulltime reporter for The Daily Ardmoreite. I'm quite familiar with Little Dixie and its mafia. Ever deal with George Fuqua, whose activities forced the Highway Patrol to stop using unmarked cars?
> 
> Quite a few of those folk had ties to northwest Louisiana, as well...



in 1954 I was 7 years old.LOL

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## RadicalModerate

I was only 2.
Yet, I have to admit that every time I drove by the murder scene--at the tender age of much later, in real time about the time of the incident in question--I thought: "Yeah, that's a seedy enough motel for something like that to happen."

I'm not sure if The Guest House Motel Murders preceded or anti-ceded The Pei Plan . . .
And I'm not sure if it matters at this point in time.

All evidence to the contrary has been carefully removed.
By Them.

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## Jim Kyle

> I would recommend, and encourage you to memorialize in writing your recollections and forward to Dr. Bob Blackburn at the Oklahoma Historical Society for archive.


Actually you can find quite a bit of the story on Doug Loudenback's web site; he's published several such articles that I sent him and one told the story of how Edmondson and Cannon got the state to repeal prohibition in 1959. I'm still working on one about creation of the shelterbelts that helped put an end to the Dust Bowl (and a most unlikely wartime effort by the same group that helped the B29s get off the ground).

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## Jim Kyle

> I think Atkinson went on to start a paper . . was it the Journal?. . out in Midwest City.


Were you aware that Atkinson was the man who quite literally *built* Midwest City? He did all the original development, and was a major political power in the state before he went up against Edmondson -- and lost to the biggest landslide recorded up to that time in the state. While Atkinson's campaign followed usual lines, Edmondson toured the state and had campaign rallies in every one of the 77 counties. Such grass-roots efforts were almost unknown in the state up until then. Years later, Henry Bellmon and his "Bellmon's Belles" did much the same, with equal success...

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## RadicalModerate

> Actually you can find quite a bit of the story on Doug Loudenback's web site; he's published severa; such articles that I sent him and one told the story of how Edmondson and Cannon got the state to repeal prohibition in 1959. I'm still working on one about creation of the shelterbelts that helped put an end to the Dust Bowl (and a most unlikely wartime effort by the same group that helped the B29s get off the ground).


Once again, I salute you, Sir.
Perhaps because I once read a book entitled, "The Pursuit of Excellence".
It wasn't so much about "journalism" as it was about approaching truth and even Truth.

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## KenRagsdale

> I was about 7 or 8.
> 
> E-D-M-O-N-D   *   S-O-N spells Edmondson ....


It's my understanding the late J. Leland Gourley, Edmondson's press spokesman and later publisher of Oklahoma City's "Friday" newspaper, came up with that catchy combination of lyrics by Gourley and music by George M. Cohan.

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## Lynne

> I was about 7 or 8.
> 
> E-D-M-O-N-D   *   S-O-N spells Edmondson ....





> I was only 2.
> Yet, I have to admit that every time I drove by the murder scene--at the tender age of much later, in real time about the time of the incident in question--I thought: "Yeah, that's a seedy enough motel for something like that to happen."
> 
> I'm not sure if The Guest House Motel Murders preceded or anti-ceded The Pei Plan . . .
> And I'm not sure if it matters at this point in time.
> 
> _All evidence to the contrary has been carefully removed.
> By Them._


Boy, isn't THAT the truth. I had to have a friend show me where the GH once stood. I used to go to the HI-LO club and I lived across the Circle at the Belle Isle Apts on Blackwelder, south of the old DeVille motel, but the GH never caught my eye back in the day. Or maybe it wasn't even there. Anyway I don't remember it.
Tell me about the Pei Plan. TOTAL darkness here. Remember, I left in '76.

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## Lynne

> It's my understanding the late J. Leland Gourley, Edmondson's press spokesman and later publisher of Oklahoma City's "Friday" newspaper, came up with that catchy combination of lyrics by Gourley and music by George M. Cohan.


Isn't it odd how many of us that were mere children remember that race? It really was a big deal. And it was also the summer I got my first Hula Hoop.

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## Lynne

> Were you aware that Atkinson was the man who quite literally *built* Midwest City? He did all the original development, and was a major political power in the state before he went up against Edmondson -- and lost to the biggest landslide recorded up to that time in the state. While Atkinson's campaign followed usual lines, Edmondson toured the state and had campaign rallies in every one of the 77 counties. Such grass-roots efforts were almost unknown in the state up until then. Years later, Henry Bellmon and his "Bellmon's Belles" did much the same, with equal success...



Followed 'usual lines' if slinging mud was 'usual'. I really think that's why he lost. It was just too much. I do remember Henry Bellmon.

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## Urbanized

Atkinson is also indirectly responsible for OKC's massive city area and resultant sprawl. OKC and the Chamber spearheaded the effort to land Tinker AFB and its civilian jobs, but after they succeeded, Atkinson wisely managed to snap up much of the unincorporated land around it and developed MWC as a separate community (whose sales and property taxes of course never made it to OKC).

Having learned their lesson and not wanting the same thing to happen to them ever again, leaders in OKC went on an epic annexation spree that lasted for years and resulted in our current sparsely-populated and difficult-to-sustain land mass. Law of unintended consequences.

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## RadicalModerate

> Atkinson is also indirectly responsible for OKC's massive city area and resultant sprawl. OKC and the Chamber spearheaded the effort to land Tinker AFB and its civilian jobs, but after they succeeded, Atkinson wisely managed to snap up much of the unincorporated land around it and developed MWC as a separate community (whose sales and property taxes of course never made it to OKC).
> 
> Having learned their lesson and not wanting the same thing to happen to them ever again, leaders in OKC went on an epic annexation spree that lasted for years and resulted in our current sparsely-populated and difficult-to-sustain land mass. Law of unintended consequences.


I love that summary.  It is so on-target that words fail me.
(would have simply clicked the Like button, but it seems to be gone.)

Look at a plan view or aerial map of the old part of MWC sometime.
Then tell me that it doesn't look like something from the Nazca Plains down there in America del Sur.
I used to live on one branch of "the menorah" (renting, for a short period of time).
There certainly was a certain "vibe" about the place.
Unrelated to jet aircraft landing.
Maybe.  =)

I forget: How did WP(bill)A get dragged into a discussion about The Infamous Guest House Murders?

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## Jim Kyle

Just a bit of mention of ancient history; word association took over from there.

Lynne -- the Pei Plan, in one sentence, is what destroyed downtown OKC in the 70s.

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## RadicalModerate

> Just a bit of mention of ancient history; word association took over from there.
> 
> Lynne -- the Pei Plan, in one sentence, is what destroyed downtown OKC in the 70s.


If there was a Three Thumbs Up button I would click it.
Suffice it to say, since there ain't . . .

[. . . --the Pei Plan, in one sentence, is what destroyed downtown OKC in the 70s] 
. . . and someone had to Pay for It.

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## kevinpate

Pei Plan - knock down a bunch of stuff.  build a bunch of shiny new stuff.
They began the plan aggressively enough, then got tired and took a long freaking nap.

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## Lynne

> Pei Plan - knock down a bunch of stuff.  build a bunch of shiny new stuff.
> They began the plan aggressively enough, then got tired and took a long freaking nap.


LOL. You guys.

i remember Downtown was at it's lowest point in the late 60's early 70's then they built that concrete thing and then the Myriad. I can't wait for September to get here. Got friends up there that have offered me the Grande Tour. I've been back a few times in the late 80's, again right after the Bombing (started driving that night because we couldn't get a flight out quick enough.) Oklahoma City will always be home to me. That place that when you go back there, they have to take you in.
I think if you are from there you need to go home periodically to get a fresh infusion, a red dirt fix to sustain you in the hinterlands which is down here in Texas, the place Dan Jenkins called 'Baja Oklahoma'.
I'm keeping my eye on you guys now, peeking in now and again hoping for news of my OT. Even though the thread got a little hi-jacked it was a most pleasant robbery. I could 'listen' to y'all all day and night. And such gentlemen. Rare in these days and times.

See you soon. I'll never go completely away but I've got leads to follow, appointments to keep and miles to go before I sleep.
I wish gen70 would have come back to me.

You can reach me at dgirl77040@aol.com

PS left y'all a few back in the day pix.

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## gen70

@causeLynne I really could not describe him clearly because it was a long time ago and we were drink'n and smok'n but, I do recall that one of the two guy's told me that he had been a student at Columbia University at one point.

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## gen70

@ Lynne, I couldn't  honestly describe the other two men I met at Marvin's apt. that day because I had been smoke'n and drink'n .

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## OKCRT

> Followed 'usual lines' if slinging mud was 'usual'. I really think that's why he lost. It was just too much. I do remember Henry Bellmon.


So getting back on topic. Did they look at the ex-wife and her husband that were living in NC but were in Ok. at the time of the shooting? From the way I was reading it sounded like the ex didn't want Ray seeing the kids. It also said that the ex. tried to get Ray to come to NC but he refused. 

This all sounds pretty fishy to me once you start reading about it.

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## Lynne

> Pei Plan - knock down a bunch of stuff.  build a bunch of shiny new stuff.
> They began the plan aggressively enough, then got tired and took a long freaking nap.


Weird bunch up there. What with Gaylord and all. I thought we'd never get liquor by the drink. When I left you still had to bring your own bottle to a club and pay for 'set-ups'.

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## Lynne

> So getting back on topic. Did they look at the ex-wife and her husband that were living in NC but were in Ok. at the time of the shooting? From the way I was reading it sounded like the ex didn't want Ray seeing the kids. It also said that the ex. tried to get Ray to come to NC but he refused. 
> 
> This all sounds pretty fishy to me once you start reading about it.


 Did I tell ya or did I tell ya? This thing has a real surprise ending. I knew Patsy. Strange little bird to say the least. Came from Jehovah's Witnesses and turned out for Ray. Wouldn't I love to pick her brain. I found his son on Facebook. Put in for a 'friends' dealie. We shall see what we shall see.

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## Lynne

> So getting back on topic. Did they look at the ex-wife and her husband that were living in NC but were in Ok. at the time of the shooting? From the way I was reading it sounded like the ex didn't want Ray seeing the kids. It also said that the ex. tried to get Ray to come to NC but he refused. 
> 
> This all sounds pretty fishy to me once you start reading about it.





> @causeLynne I really could not describe him clearly because it was a long time ago and we were drink'n and smok'n but, I do recall that one of the two guy's told me that he had been a student at Columbia University at one point.


Well, you can call that guy 'Not Ray'. :Smile:

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## Lynne

When I flew to Dallas in '74, Ray had been shot. He told me he walked into a 7-11 store robbery. Researching I find it was actually Patsy that shot him. He wanted to take me back to SC with him then. I refused and he drove me back to Houston. We fought all the way ( we did that a lot. But as the man said, 'That was our dance.') and when I got to the front door I slammed the car door, probably flipped him the bird while he shook his head and laughed (he did that a lot, too)and I never spoke to him again.

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## OKCRT

> When I flew to Dallas in '74, Ray had been shot. He told me he walked into a 7-11 store robbery. Researching I find it was actually Patsy that shot him. He wanted to take me back to SC with him then. I refused and he drove me back to Houston. We fought all the way ( we did that a lot. But as the man said, 'That was our dance.') and when I got to the front door I slammed the car door, probably flipped him the bird while he shook his head and laughed (he did that a lot, too)and I never spoke to him again.


So McBride(the cop) just had a hunch after someone gave him a brief description of the shooter and fingered the guy from Tyler Texas that was at a rodeo all evening. So the shooter jumps in a jet flies to Ok. City and commits the crime in just a few hour time period? And there's no question that he was in Tyler Texas because he had many witnesses that backed him up. Not other criminals but upstanding people that seen him,talked to him and hung out with him and many others at the rodeo. But McBride put the finger on this guy from the start so it had to be him,right. Sounds like a true case of rushing to judgement.

Well all I can say is that someone should make a movie of this and bring out the true facts. The more I read the crazier this story gets. I must admit that I have never given it much thought but after reading this thread and doing a little checking it's pretty plain to me that there was some very shady stuff going on.

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## Lynne

> Followed 'usual lines' if slinging mud was 'usual'. I really think that's why he lost. It was just too much. I do remember Henry Bellmon.





> So McBride(the cop) just had a hunch after someone gave him a brief description of the shooter and fingered the guy from Tyler Texas that was at a rodeo all evening. So the shooter jumps in a jet flies to Ok. City and commits the crime in just a few hour time period? And there's no question that he was in Tyler Texas because he had many witnesses that backed him up. Not other criminals but upstanding people that seen him,talked to him and hung out with him and many others at the rodeo. But McBride put the finger on this guy from the start so it had to be him,right. Sounds like a true case of rushing to judgement.
> 
> Well all I can say is that someone should make a movie of this and bring out the true facts. The more I read the crazier this story gets. I must admit that I have never given it much thought but after reading this thread and doing a little checking it's pretty plain to me that there was some very shady stuff going on.


I'm thinking the cover up started with Harold Behrens (det) but what his connection to Leonard Crown (Patsy's husband at the time) and how that conversation went down is crucial. Such a co-incidence there would be two shooters, look-a-likes, same gold tipped hollow point 45's (very rare at the time)and how the word would get to Crowe unless he knew Behrens or at least Paul Mazzel whom Ray supposedly ripped off.
Behrens patted him on the shoulder that night before he left, literally putting a bulls eye on Rays back. Who knew what and when and how did it come together? A colossal coincidence. a quick trip to Madill to see Patsys parents,  Crowe having a mustache when he got there but came back without one.

And lastly, why no follow up? after they let Henry Bowen go in 86? Was it because everybody was glad to see Ray go and considered it poetic justice, let it ride? It had happened before.

One more small thing. Crowe was a SC boy but he died in Ardmore a few years back.He was released in 86 and had a new wife as early as 1987. Patsy was no longer around. But he stayed close to her it seems.

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## Lynne

> So McBride(the cop) just had a hunch after someone gave him a brief description of the shooter and fingered the guy from Tyler Texas that was at a rodeo all evening. So the shooter jumps in a jet flies to Ok. City and commits the crime in just a few hour time period? And there's no question that he was in Tyler Texas because he had many witnesses that backed him up. Not other criminals but upstanding people that seen him,talked to him and hung out with him and many others at the rodeo. But McBride put the finger on this guy from the start so it had to be him,right. Sounds like a true case of rushing to judgement.
> 
> Well all I can say is that someone should make a movie of this and bring out the true facts. The more I read the crazier this story gets. I must admit that I have never given it much thought but after reading this thread and doing a little checking it's pretty plain to me that there was some very shady stuff going on.


That's the plan.

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## Urbanized

Am I right that this hotel was just NE of the Classen Traffic Circle, behind the complex that is now home to Hi-Lo, Drunken Fry, Classen Grill, etc.? There is a newer hotel on-site now, built in the past 6 or 7 years.

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## trousers

I would definitely watch this movie.

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## kevinpate

There is no shortage of homicides in this state that would make for interesting adaptations to a screen ,big or small.

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## kd5kzy

Interesting blog regarding the Dixie Mafia.

Dixie Mafia, Part 1 | The State Crime Bureau Journal

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## Dubya61

> Interesting blog regarding the Dixie Mafia.
> 
> Dixie Mafia, Part 1 | The State Crime Bureau Journal


The complete blog is very interesting!

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## rezman

> Am I right that this hotel was just NE of the Classen Traffic Circle, behind the complex that is now home to Hi-Lo, Drunken Fry, Classen Grill, etc.? There is a newer hotel on-site now, built in the past 6 or 7 years.


Correct. If you go to the Map Index on this site, and go to "50th & Western, you can plainly see it in the areal shot. Even the swimming pool where the murders occurred is visible.

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## Jim Kyle

> The complete blog is very interesting!


Definitely! I didn't find anything past Part 2 though. Wasn't an Edmondson girl also involved with the younger Nix?

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## OKCRT

> Definitely! I didn't find anything past Part 2 though. Wasn't an Edmondson girl also involved with the younger Nix?


I was looking for part 3 but couldn't find it. Part 2 left some things up in the air. Interesting read for sure.

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## rezman

> Pody was an alumnus of Classen high school, and contributed a copy of his autobiography to our alumni association's museum. Unfortunately the museum has been closed for several years due to the MAPS renovation of the Classen building; we hope to have it open to the public again sometime this summer, though, and everything in our "Authors Alley" collection (including works by Bill Gulick and Louis L'Amour) can be read by any visitor.
> 
> Many of his games were held at his home in Nichols Hills...


I talked to my friend this evening and asked him about this. He didn't say a whole lot other than Poe and his dad were good friends and that  he used to visit Poe's casino in Nichols Hills himself when he was younger. He said Pody Poe was really a pretty good guy.

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## Kimmie

> WOW! Great question. Yes. I knew Ray was killed about a year after it happened. I was in Ft Lauderdale by then, we split in 72/73. saw him once more in 75 ( he called me in Houston and I flew to Dallas to see him) he'd been shot, and NOT by who he said did it) I didn't catch it at the time, but court records have cleared that up. Now recent re-connections with old (emphasis on 'old', I'm 66 now) friends have given me an entire new take. I never knew any of the particulars and the more I began to dig the weirder it got. Ray was a semi pimp, not in the old movie sense of standing outside the building and  psst psst-ing in the tricks but the kind of guy that took care of me. Hot bath when I got home, a good joint, or  glass of wine, whatever and then we drove to some all night joint, the Canadian Club out by Tuttle (if memory serves) and danced and socialized all night with our own kind. Hot pony cars, sleeping all day, working half the night and playing the rest. We didn't work the streets. Back in the day it was all call service, more Klute than Taxi Driver. there was no need for an actual pimp. They called it 'joining each other out.' As in out into 'the life'.
> It was hedonistic and self-indulgent but we were kids and it was never going to end, right?
> 
> Ray was good to me, if you can get your head around that. Lots of girls didn't have it half as good as me and my friends did. No beatings, no terrorizing unless I was in a bad mood.In our own way we lived a very normal life.
> 
> so to answer your question, do I want to re-live that and  make it more beautiful than it was? Maybe. But sometimes it just comes down to your own 'life more examined' and plus there is some real Quinton Tarrantino stuff that went on. it's a great story, with or without me being included in any of it.
> You pick.
> 
> Thanks for you insightful question. I think this is where a lot of the ideas come from.



HI, I am the daughter of Fred Weed. Being as you have done a lot of research on this matter I know you are aware of the connection. I am just curious if you ever met my dad? I know this is an old thread and you may never get this but thought I would ask.

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