# Everything Else > Sports >  Oklahoma City Thunder  2017-18

## Laramie

Today, _(Sunday)_ July 2 is the 9th anniversary of the settlement that allowed the owners of the Seattle SuperSonics to move the NBA franchise to Oklahoma City. The franchise has been among the most successful NBA franchises since 2008-09; that year was the inaugural season for the renamed Oklahoma City Thunder.







*Happy Anniversary and many more . . .*

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## Laramie

Oklahoma City appears to be a very solid NBA market.  2017-18, we will begin our 12th year as an NBA city (2-Hornets/9-Thunder).   Attendance figures are strong & consistent:

2005-06 Hornets - 18,168
2006-07 Hornets - 17,833

2007-08 No NBA franchise

2008-09 Thunder - 18,693
2009-10 Thunder - 17,813
2010-11 Thunder - 18,003
2011-17 Thunder - 18,203 (297 consecutive sellouts)
OKC metro area population: 

2005 - 1.01 million
2010 - 1.25 million
2016 - 1.38 million
Our city's growth looks encouraging;  very similar to Portland & Charlotte when they entered the NBA.

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## Laramie

*Oklahoma City Thunder Roster:* http://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/...thunderhttp://


Terrance Ferguson requested jersey #23; tentative roster spot--hasn't signed his 2017 contract.

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## Laramie

Thunder: FIBA clearance keeping Terrance Ferguson from summer league.




> Terrance Ferguson, the Thunders first-round pick in the 2017 NBA Draft, missed his second consecutive game of the summer league Monday. Theres more to Fergusons absence than an unsigned contract.
> 
> Unlike other prospects typically entering the NBA, Ferguson, 19, is coming off a season as a professional for the Adelaide 36ers in Australia. Players coming from overseas are required to get a letter of clearance from the International Basketball Federation (FIBA) in order to play, and Ferguson hasn't received his yet, a Thunder spokesperson told The Oklahoman on Monday.
> 
> . . . The 6-foot-7, 184-pound Ferguson is currently not with the team in Orlando.


http://newsok.com/thunder-fiba-clear...rticle/5555145

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## dankrutka

Thunder signed Patrick Patterson to 3/16 deal (third year player option). Great signing. Definitely prefer Patterson to Gay. Presti is on fire!

This also marks the biggest free agency signing in Thunder history.

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## Jake

Very, very solid player. Exactly what the Thunder need.

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## OKCRT

Not nearly the offensive player that Gay is but Patterson is a decent backup/role player that will prob start for the Thunder. Now Presti needs to ship Roberson off and get some more offense. The NBA today is about offense. Hopefully some team signs Roberson to a huge offer sheet that the Thunder can't match.

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## dankrutka

Gay is coming off a serious achilles injury. I straight up prefer Patterson over Gay for that reason alone. I obviously disagree on Roberson. Roberson will make this Thunder defense versatile and one of the top in the league. Resigning Robes and finding a backup PG and this team is ready to go.

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## Jake

Thunder defense should easily be top 10, maybe top 5 this year.

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## dankrutka

> Thunder defense should easily be top 10, maybe top 5 this year.


It was top 10 last season. Top 5 is definitely attainable.

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## Bellaboo

> Gay is coming off a serious achilles injury. I straight up prefer Patterson over Gay for that reason alone. I obviously disagree on Roberson. Roberson will make this Thunder defense versatile and one of the top in the league.* Resigning Robes and finding a backup PG and this team is ready to go*.


This is all that's needed. We will be a tough out come playoff time.

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## sooner88

Celtics will need to get of Smart and/or Rozier, which both would be an interesting backup choice for us. The Hayward decision was the last major domino this offseason, the rest should fall in place soon.

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## Laramie

Presti realizes he has to have the Thunder ready for the 2017-18 season where he only has to tweak a player or two come All Star break.  3 year 16.4 million = $5.47 million MLE.

Patrick Patterson 2016-17 stats: http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4264

Strengths:  6.8 PPG,  *.717 FT%,*  FG% .401

CBS Sports:  


> Patterson is defensive minded stretch four that doesn't need the ball in his hands. This is perfect next to two ball-dominant players like George and Westbrook, and he's not too bad at setting screens either. The real win here, however, is on defense. Oklahoma City has long athletic defenders that can do a lot of switching, which will make it tough for opponents get baskets.

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## Laramie

Oklahoma City Thunder roster update:  http://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/...a-city-thunder

Paperwork & actual contract signing & filing still needs to be done to make these players official. FIBA clearance needed on Terrance Ferguson.

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## dankrutka

Roberson back on 3 year deal for $10 million a year. Good deal for OKC.

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## Jake

He turned down a 4 year - $48 million dollar offer last year. A lot of people misjudged the market this year combined with the atrocious contracts given out last year that ate up teams' cap space.

Good value for the Thunder.

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## OKCRT

Oh Joy the hackarob going to be fun to watch for the next 3 years! Listening to ESPN radio today and they brought Roberson up and they said there was only one team interested in his services. Yes,you guessed it,the Thunder.

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## Laramie

Sources: Forward Andre Roberson agrees to 3-year, $30M deal with Thunder: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...-oklahoma-city 





> Restricted free agent forward Andre Roberson has agreed to a three-year, $30 million contract to stay with the Oklahoma City Thunder, league sources told ESPN.


One down & two to go:  Back-up point guard & Westbrook's contract.

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## dankrutka

> Oh Joy the hackarob going to be fun to watch for the next 3 years! Listening to ESPN radio today and they brought Roberson up and they said there was only one team interested in his services. Yes,you guessed it,the Thunder.


Within the NBA world, Roberson's signing was almost universally praised. The Thunder just got the best wing defender in the NBA (save maybe Kawhi) for $10 million a year. Great value for the Thunder. And he's a better fit for a team with Paul George. Advanced stats show what most common fans don't see... that defense matters. Most of us like to see players who can score like Kanter, but don't notice guys who keep others from scoring.  There's a reason almost all advance stats show that Roberson is a far more valuable player than Kanter. What an offseason for Presti! 

Good reading on Roberson's signing:

https://sports.yahoo.com/thunder-kee...043715666.html

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## Bellaboo

> Within the NBA world, Roberson's signing was almost universally praised. The Thunder just got the best wing defender in the NBA (save maybe Kawhi) for $10 million a year. Great value for the Thunder. And he's a better fit for a team with Paul George. Advanced stats show what most common fans don't see... that defense matters. Most of us like to see players who can score like Kanter, but don't notice guys who keep others from scoring.  There's a reason almost all advance stats show that Roberson is a far more valuable player than Kanter. What an offseason for Presti! 
> 
> Good reading on Roberson's signing:
> 
> https://sports.yahoo.com/thunder-kee...043715666.html


+100    Great deal for the Thunder - Robes can defend 4 positions better than anyone in the league.

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## Thomas Vu

Posting advanced stats for anybody interested.






There's gotta be a way to make that bigger/readable.

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## Anonymous.

Presti is shaping this team to be majorly anti-wing. Plus you still have Adams inside. Basically OKC is being built into the anti-Warriors/Rockets.

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## Urbanized

^^^^^^^
Seems like the best strategy, unless you just intend to wait out a Warriors implosion, which could take years at this point. And if you're going to do that, might as well pack it in and start a tear-down and total rebuild sans Russ. I like this option way better.

Also, gotta give it up to the West; looks like few teams are willing to give up on competitiveness in favor of a scratch rebuild timed to rise as GSW falls. Should be a murderers' row this year, and really fun to watch.

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## SOONER8693

> Oh Joy the hackarob going to be fun to watch for the next 3 years! Listening to ESPN radio today and they brought Roberson up and they said there was only one team interested in his services. Yes,you guessed it,the Thunder.


Get to watch him go 3-22 from the free-throw line the next 3 years. And he is paid $10million a year to go 3-22 from the line. Wow!

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## dankrutka

> Get to watch him go 3-22 from the free-throw line the next 3 years. And he is paid $10million a year to go 3-22 from the line. Wow!


What do you think about the rest of his game?

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## dankrutka

Really good write up on Dakari Johnson for anyone interested. 

"If Dakari Johnson had been drafted in 2005 instead of 2015, his value would be through the roof as a backup 5. However, in today’s we-only-love-extremely-versatile-bigs mantra he might find himself on the outside looking in for a 15-man roster spot."

https://2ways10days.com/despite-majo...n-6fcd4a1e755f

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## Richard at Remax

The rest of his game is good. But when it's a close game and they start hacking and exposing him to force Donovan's hand to take him out, that's what is going to get annoying. If i were him i would be in the gym practicing only free throws this off season.

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## dankrutka

> The rest of his game is good. But when it's a close game and they start hacking and exposing him to force Donovan's hand to take him out, that's what is going to get annoying. If i were him i would be in the gym practicing only free throws this off season.


I agree it's annoying, but it's the only thing some people can talk about when discussing him (not you, obviously), which suggests they're not recognizing that he's the hardest working defensive player on our team who covered Russ' defensive laziness all season. He takes so much pressure off other players and was the primary reason OKC was a top 10 defensive team and had success. Also, I guarantee you Roberson is, and has been, working on his free throws every day. Everyone seems to think free throws + hard work = improvement, but that's not the case for a lot of players who fail to substantially improve their free throw percentages over their careers. Some guys dedicate the attention on free throws and even get worse. I hope Andre improves, but I wouldn't count on his shot (free throws or threes) ever improving. However, with the Thunder's acquisitions like a stretch 4 in Patterson, Donovan might be able to play Robes as a "big" on offense who cuts around the basket instead of sitting on the three point line. This could help Roberson be more appropriately used as he was against Golden State in the 2016 Western Conference Finals. But, more than anything, OKC is paying for an elite defensive talent. I'm glad OKC has him back in the fold on such a reasonable deal.

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## Laramie

Agree, Roberson did minimized the pressure off the Thunder offensive game.   I'm confident he will improve his free throws; as long as he doesn't allow it to affect his mentality.   

You  have a number of Thunder players who will receive compensation for steps (experience) associated with the players' CBA.  Many of them have game deficiencies in need of improvement.  

Happy for Roberson's achievement.

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## OKCRT

Hopefully Roberson won't have to shoot many 3s next season. His game is within 2 feet of the basket anything outside that perimeter could end up as an air ball.

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## dankrutka

Raymond Felton signing a 1 year deal with OKC for the veteran minimum. A huge (literally and figuratively) upgrade over Semaj Christon at backup point guard. Again, Presti is really having an amazing offseason. 

OKC is way over the luxury tax line and still have to sign Tarrance Ferguson. While OKC might be willing to pay the tax I suspect they'll either (a) try to lessen their bill by stretching Kyle Singler's contract (or trading him with an asset attached) or (b) trade Kanter before the trade deadline in February (which might require an asset attached also). Either way, the Thunder are going all in this season.

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## HangryHippo

> Raymond Felton signing a 1 year deal with OKC for the veteran minimum. A huge (literally and figuratively) upgrade over Semaj Christon at backup point guard. Again, Presti is really having an amazing offseason. 
> 
> OKC is way over the luxury tax line and still have to sign Tarrance Ferguson. While OKC might be willing to pay the tax I suspect they'll either (a) try to lessen their bill by stretching Kyle Singler's contract (or trading him with an asset attached) or (b) trade Kanter before the trade deadline in February (which might require an asset attached also). Either way, the Thunder are going all in this season.


I believe you can only stretch a contract once and I highly doubt they'll use it to stretch Singler. Now they might stretch Kanter or trade him. That contract is just terrible.

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## BlackmoreRulz

Does Collison retire? Doesn't seem like there is much room for him on this roster, would hate to see Mr Thunder go elsewhere.

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## dankrutka

> I believe you can only stretch a contract once and I highly doubt they'll use it to stretch Singler. Now they might stretch Kanter or trade him. That contract is just terrible.


Never heard you can only stretch one contract. Maybe you're thinking of the old amnesty provision? Kanter, while overpaid, is an NBA player who is useful in some situations; Singler is not. Stretching Kanter's contract would also include like $34 million. That would still mean paying something like $7 million per season fof 5 years. That would be quite a salary hit for a guy not playing. Singler's would be a lot less.

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## dankrutka

> Does Collison retire? Doesn't seem like there is much room for him on this roster, would hate to see Mr Thunder go elsewhere.


I've been wondering this too. Love to see him back for another season.

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## Laramie

Why not add Nick Collison to the coaching staff?

Raymond Felton addition: http://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/...a-city-thunder


#2 PG6' 1", 205 lb., Age:  33
15 musical chairs left with 16 tentative roster players.


Welcome to Thunderdome; 'two men enter, one man leaves...'

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## sbs

Just wanted to extend the invite to OKCTalk! Let's make a lasting impression on PG13 and his family!

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## Laramie

Tracking Paul George's arrival to OKC (Will Rogers World Airport):  http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...630Z/KVNY/KOKC

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## Laramie

.
*Thunderous welcome for Paul George.  * 

*OKC - PG 1 3*



https://www.facebook.com/OKCThunder/...4891394083995/

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## Urbanized

Nick Collison signs one-year deal and will retire after season: https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/14/1...t-lifer-status

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## FighttheGoodFight

> Nick Collison signs one-year deal and will retire after season: https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/14/1...t-lifer-status


Good news. Great player over the years and glad to see him retire in the Thunder blue.

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## Laramie

You now have player combinations (Westbrook, George,  McDermott, Roberson, Abrines, Grant) who can spread the floor.  Last season was full of frustration where RW couldn't rest or catch his breath with a 10 point lead that would evaporate in a few minutes.

Defensive fouls on 3 point shooters; this will be a major concern that needs to be addressed.  

Hope things get better.   Those of you who have been advocates of trading RW,  you just have no idea as to how he impacts the Thunder.   Once you blow up this team it may take 10-15 years before we have a competitor.   Take the Lakers with all their tradition, they would love to get back into playoff competition.

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## d-usa

New uniforms are out:

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## tyeomans

Not very innovative. They don't look any different from the uniforms Adidas did. Where's the creativity?

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## shawnw

the swoosh was innovative before it was cool, i guess

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## Jake

There's tremendous irony in the fact that the team with one of the most fashionable stars in the sports world is perhaps the least innovative with its branding.

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## Pete

Love the Thunder but have always thought their branding was embarrassing and easily the worst in the league, maybe all of big-league sports.

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## dankrutka

There was not expected to be much change on these jerseys, but the next two uniforms will be new. And, yes, OKC has the worst bearing in the NBA across the board.

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## OKCisOK4me

> There was not expected to be much change on these jerseys, but the next two uniforms will be new. And, yes, OKC has the worst bearing in the NBA across the board.


When do those next two uniforms make their appearances?

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## HangryHippo

> Love the Thunder but have always thought their branding was embarrassing and easily the worst in the league, maybe all of big-league sports.


I always thought the Barons proposal with black and gold and the obvious ties to oil would have been the most perfect match in all of sports. But alas, we get the Thunder.

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## sooner88

We will also be one of 8 teams with a throwback jersey. Interesting to hear that with the hostility in Seattle.

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## dankrutka

> We will also be one of 8 teams with a throwback jersey. Interesting to hear that with the hostility in Seattle.


I don't think this is correct. People misread a headline. It  wouldn't make sense for OKC to  have a throwback.

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## dankrutka

> When do those next two uniforms make their appearances?


I think they could even be released/debuted during the season,  but there's no confirmation yet.

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## sooner88

> I don't think this is correct. People misread a headline. It  wouldn't make sense for OKC to  have a throwback.


Yep after I sent that they confirmed they would not be wearing a Sonics throwback.

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## d-usa

I think the Thunder have done a good job basically acting like a new expansion team rather than a relocated team. 

We don't have any of "our" old championship banners hanging up in the rafters, so I wouldn't expect them to wear "our" old uniforms.

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## OKCRT

Sonics are dead long live the Thunder!

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## d-usa

Isn't there a clause somewhere that if Seattle ever gets another team, that team wil have the rights to all old Sonic records and such, at which point we would lose them anyway? So it makes sense to not even bother with them.

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## Roger S

> I think the Thunder have done a good job basically acting like a new expansion team rather than a relocated team.


Agreed but I'd still love to see Sonic buy the naming rights to the arena and name it the Super Sonic Center..... The heat from angry Supersonic fans might melt the North Pole though!  :Wink:

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## king183

> Isn't there a clause somewhere that if Seattle ever gets another team, that team wil have the rights to all old Sonic records and such, at which point we would lose them anyway? So it makes sense to not even bother with them.


Yep. If they get a new team, they retain their franchise history.

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## d-usa

Just refreshed myself:

Looks like Seattle kept the rights to anything with the name SuperSonics, including the jerseys, banners, colors, etc.  But the franchise record of the Sonics went to the Thunder.

So I guess "we", aka "the Thunder", won the Championship a long time ago? Which could mean that we could hang a "Thunder NBA Champions 19whatever" banner up, since it's still "our" championship? And if Seattle gets a team they get the old branding, but not the old records?

I can see that being a confusing mess, and I like the "we are basically a new franchise with no record" approach a lot better.

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## dankrutka

Interesting note: Everyone has been saying that Terrance Ferguson has not been signed yet (he's the only first round pick not to sign) because he lacked FIBA clearance, but it appears he's been cleared for two weeks. Since you can't trade a rookie until 30 days after they're signed, it makes you wonder if the the Thunder are including him in trade talks now...

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## Bellaboo

> Interesting note: Everyone has been saying that Terrance Ferguson has not been signed yet (he's the only first round pick not to sign) because he lacked FIBA clearance, but it appears he's been cleared for two weeks. Since you can't trade a rookie until 30 days after they're signed, it makes you wonder if the the Thunder are including him in trade talks now...


I think his agent is holding out. His scale is around a million give or take a couple hundred either side of it.

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## Laramie

Thunder's roster has bumped up to 17.   They should make some cuts soon; we'll lose 2:

ESPN Thunder roster 2017:  http://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/...a-city-thunder

PGs:  Christian & *Cole* are backups to Westbrook & Felton. (May lose 1)
SFs:   Grant, Huestis & Singler are backups to George & McDermott.  (May lose 1)
*Cole* is an unrestricted free agent; there's a good possibility that he may not come back.

Ferguson:  He can play the PG or SG.   He may spend time in the G-League until they can build his confidence to transition to the NBA.

We'll see how this plays out. . .

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## dankrutka

> I think his agent is holding out. His scale is around a million give or take a couple hundred either side of it.


What would his agent holdout on? The salary is pretty much predetermined. There's not much to negotiate. The Thunder have done deals with guys, but those seem to have been agreed to pre-draft. The Thunder would look really cheap trying to negotiate anything.

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## Bellaboo

> What would his agent holdout on? The salary is pretty much predetermined. There's not much to negotiate. The Thunder have done deals with guys, but those seem to have been agreed to pre-draft. The Thunder would look really cheap trying to negotiate anything.


His agent is Rich Paul, who started Klutch Sports....LeBrons' guy. He is known for holding out for the best deal. Myself, i'm not sure what leverage he has but that's what I read.

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## Laramie

> His agent is Rich Paul, who started Klutch Sports....LeBrons' guy. He is known for holding out for the best deal. Myself, i'm not sure what leverage he has but that's what I read.


Norris Cole was on the Thunder's books for $288,131--with 26 games left on the schedule following the All Star break.   Cole is an unrestricted free agent should make $1,471,382 for 2017-18.  

As Dankrutka mentioned there's not a lot of wiggle room with his contract.  Cole had a workout with the Pelicans on July 24.  

Semaj Christon may be a better player option to retain at $1,312,611 (2017-18) as a backup point guard to Westbrook & Felton.

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## OKC_on_mines

So excited for this year. I think this off-season has proven Sam Presti is the best, if not a top 3, GM in the league. Not crazy aabout melo but i think were just going for the jugular and trying to go all in. Dont really see a new uniform and not sure why we haven't upgraded OUr image/brand like mentioned above. Uni's that say "o-city or no-city" would be hip and capture the chest out and chin up pride a lot of us OKIES have about OUr city these days. 

Really curious though, you guys have any info as to which companies we will partner with to do the new advertising patches were supposed to put on OUr uniforms in accordance to NBA standards?

Would love to see a local successful company like Paycom take advantage of that opportunity. For what ESPN likes to hate on us and call us a "small market" we sure did have a ton of highly rated games last year. Coming off a year with the mvp this would be a great chance to capitalize on TV coverage/visibility.

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## Bellaboo

I can see Cole and Christon both being cut. If they want to stretch Singler they might cut him too. 

Ferguson signed yesterday so we set at 17 players today.

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## BoulderSooner

> I can see Cole and Christon both being cut. If they want to stretch Singler they might cut him too. 
> 
> Ferguson signed yesterday so we set at 17 players today.


We are at 16 as of now.  Cole is not part of the team in any way 

Christian has a non guaranteed deal with the decide date pushed back to training camp

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## Bellaboo

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see more movement in the next month and a half. Whether it be a cut or trades involving multiple players.

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## dankrutka

The roster is full with the Ferguson signing so Christon is only coming back on the Blue, a new two way deal, or in the event of a trade.

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## dankrutka

> His agent is Rich Paul, who started Klutch Sports....LeBrons' guy. He is known for holding out for the best deal. Myself, i'm not sure what leverage he has but that's what I read.


Again, there's nothing to hold out for. You pretty much just give Ferguson his deal. There's no leverage or bargaining needed. Pretty much every rookie signs for the league set salary.

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## BoulderSooner

> The roster is full with the Ferguson signing so Christon is only coming back on the Blue, a new two way deal, or in the event of a trade.


Christian currently is on the roster as are the 16 other guys 
He has a non guaranteed deal so they have until sometime in training camp to waive him before his deal becomes guaranteed for the year.     It is quite possible they make another trade or waive and stretch singler to clear a roster spot/save money on tax payments. 




> Again, there's nothing to hold out for. You pretty much just give Ferguson his deal. There's no leverage or bargaining needed. Pretty much every rookie signs for the league set salary.


Actually the team can sign the player any where in the range of 80% to 120% Of the draft slot so there is something to negotiate

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## king183

> Again, there's nothing to hold out for. You pretty much just give Ferguson his deal. There's no leverage or bargaining needed. Pretty much every rookie signs for the league set salary.


There's a scale for that salary (up to 120% of the rookie salary for that draft position), so there is a bit of negotiating that can happen.

Edit: Oops. Boulder said this an hour ago.

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## Bellaboo

> *There's a scale for that salary (up to 120% of the rookie salary for that draft position), so there is a bit of negotiating that can happen.*
> 
> Edit: Oops. Boulder said this an hour ago.


This is what I've been trying to say. It looks like they gave him the top end of the scale.

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## dankrutka

> Christian currently is on the roster as are the 16 other guys 
> He has a non guaranteed deal so they have until sometime in training camp to waive him before his deal becomes guaranteed for the year.     It is quite possible they make another trade or waive and stretch singler to clear a roster spot/save money on tax payments. 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually the team can sign the player any where in the range of 80% to 120% Of the draft slot so there is something to negotiate


The only times I've ever seen a rookie sign below the top end of the rookie scale, it was clearly pre-arranged _before_ the player was drafted (even if those discussions are hush hush). I've never heard of a team and agents haggling over this _after_ the draft. It would make OKC look awful if this were the case and they'd quickly develop a terrible reputation in the league. So, yes, while it is possible OKC and Rich Paul were haggling over a few thousand dollars, it would be pretty unprecedented unless there's a case I don't know of. Roberson signed below the top level, but that seemed to clearly have been agreed to already. 

Yes, I guess stretching Singler to keep Christon could happen. I just don't think Christon is an NBA-level player. Doesn't seem worth it, but clearly the organization values him more than I do. They've already made inexplicable move in Christon's name (paying Ronnie Price, probably a better player, $5 million to NOT play)... not that stretching Singler is inexplicable, just doing it for Christon is...

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## Laramie

Heard that Singler is a very good practice team player to help simulate the opponents' offense & defense. 

  


> So, the questions regarding Kyle Singler are:
> 
> Is Singler really that bad of a player?
>     Could it be hes the victim of circumstance?
>     Is he not being utilized properly?
> When you look at his career statistics, the first thing youll notice is he has never averaged more than nine points a game. However, he has never averaged more than five shots per game in his career. To put it simply, his numbers are decent based on his amount of shots combined with made shots. Averaging almost three points a game on less than three shots is about 50%. Which is approximately what his career percentage is.


Oklahoma City Thunder: Heres the deal with Kyle Singler:  https://thunderousintentions.com/201...-kyle-singler/

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## Laramie

*Thunder sign former Bruin Bryce Alford to training camp contract:*




> After a positive stint in summer league with the Warriors, former UCLA Bruin Bryce Alford is signing with the Thunder on a training camp contract.


ESPN - NBA Oklahoma City Thunder - http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...a-city-thunder




Guard - 6' 3", 185 lbs

    Birth Date:  January 18, 1995
    Hometown:  Albuquerque, NM
    Height: 6-3
    Weight:  185 lbs
2016-17 Season:  
*PPG	RPG	APG*
_15.5	2.5	2.6_

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## Laramie

*Oklahoma City Thunder roster updates:*

(23) Terrance Ferguson - Guard - Age: 19, Height 6-7 - Weight 185, Salary - $1,785,0004 
(4) Nick Collison - Power Forward -  Age:  36, Height 6-10 - Weight 255, Salary - $1,471,382
(9) Jerami Grant	 Small Forward - Age: 23, Height 6-9 - Weight 210, Salary - $1,524,305
Thunder roster updates:  http://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/...a-city-thunder

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## Laramie

*Bryce Alford*



*Bryce Alford- "Weclome to Thunder"*

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## dankrutka

Really should be: Bryce Alford... welcome to the Blue.  :Wink:

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## Laramie

He'll be assigned to the Blue. 

Impressed with smart decisions this young man makes; if he can transfer this skill set from college to the NBA you might see another player on par with J. J. Redick or J. J. Barea--nice little piece to keep an eye on.

Another potential 3-point weapon for the Thunder's arsenal.

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## Roger S

Well it was a year ago today that the Thunder announced Russ had re-negotiated his contract last season..... Sure would be nice to get that news again today.

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## d-usa

New alternate uniforms are out, and they are really not doing much for me.

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## king183

> New alternate uniforms are out, and they are really not doing much for me.


I love them. Can't wait for the team to wear them. I think they'll become pretty popular.

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## Bellaboo

> I love them. Can't wait for the team to wear them. I think they'll become pretty popular.


+1   Will be worn on Sunday games.

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## dankrutka

Absolutely love the new uniforms. I think they're the best ones OKC has had by a long shot. OKC's logo, uniforms, and general merchandise has been really, really underpar for a pro sports team in my opinion (and a lot of media and experts agree). I hope these new uniforms are a step in the right direction. 

http://www.nba.com/thunder/news/stat...niform-170915/

----------


## d-usa

Looks like I'm in the minority with thinking they are fugly. Looking forward to seeing their Christmas uniform this year.

----------


## Jake

I'll miss the sunsets. Loved those.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

These uniforms are fresh to death. My goodness, they can't put them on sale fast enough. I dont miss the old sunsets as much.

----------


## Rover

Wish these were the everyday unis.

----------


## Laramie

*Paul George models 2017-18 Thunder alternate uniform.*

----------


## Anonymous.

So KD got caught last night using alternator/private twitter and instagram accounts. He forgot to switch his accounts when he went to reply to people asking him why he left OKC. You can see all the information on twitter, reddit, and other news outlets as the drama is coming to light. So for everyone (especially OKC fans) who have been called salty for claiming KD is weak, here you go. Actual evidence from the cupcake himself where he is so insecure about himself and his decision, that he has fake accounts to help create a hivemind for his liking. Honestly it is rather sad, but holy crap is it entertaining watching this career's personality meltdown.

The reply from (unbeknownst to him) himself was interesting, though. He says the reason he left is because the front office couldn't get anyone other than Russ and called the other players trash. He also said he didn't like playing for Donovan. 

Crazy how his mistake on twitter gives us a glimpse of his true reasoning for leaving.

His PR team and him haven't made any comments about this yet, but I wonder how they could spin this, other than maybe claim a PR or intern forgot to log out of KD's official account when they went to reply. (which is a weak excuse)


I would put money on KD regretting leaving. He had no idea how much hate would come from it. I sort of feel bad for the guy, but he has millions of dollars and is lined up to win probably 3 or 4 rings in a row - so I just laugh now.

----------


## Jake

He's the Taylor Swift of the NBA.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

Honestly, I dont care.what he says. He isn't on OUr team anymore so he can kick rocks with no shoes until his feet bleed. 

Im more-so excited and amped up for this year.

----------


## dcsooner

> Honestly, I dont care.what he says. He isn't on OUr team anymore so he can kick rocks with no shoes until his feet bleed. 
> 
> Im more-so excited and amped up for this year.


+1

----------


## Bellaboo

You can see it here -

http://dailythunder.com/kd-tweets-in...er/#more-43266

----------


## Urbanized

Hahahahahahahaha

----------


## jn1780

> You can see it here -
> 
> http://dailythunder.com/kd-tweets-in...er/#more-43266


What about the playoff game against Golden State that he is responsible for the thunder losing? Or those times where he was out because of his injury? Seems like he has selective memory.

----------


## dankrutka

2016:
Andre Iguodala: OKC is the best team in the NBA
Kevin Durant: OKC sucks. We can't win. 
Rest of Warriors: Thanks for not believing in your own team, KD!

----------


## Anonymous.

KD needs to see a specialist. Not even joking.

How in the hell is he trashing a coach and team that took the greatest team of all time to 3-1, minutes away from the finals with HIM as the main option?! His historical revisionism is so incredibly sad. He is literally doing everything possible to justify his move. If he just said all these things and was straight up, it would be better than everything him and his PR team have done so far. The 'hater' shoes, the alternate social media accounts... And this is in the last 2 weeks. I mean is this guy for real?

Softest player in sports history.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^^
100% agree. Just smile and flash your ring at people and shut up. 

Here's all he needed to do/say when he left: "I know this is disappointing to OKC fans and my teammates, who have supported me and seen me through so much. This in particular made it a hugely difficult decision for me. But I just felt like Golden State was a better fit for me at this point. I will always treasure my time here, and I hope there comes a time when the people who have been so great to me will understand my decision and forgive me for leaving. Until then OKC will always have a special place in my heart and I wish everyone the best." And after that, SHUT UP. Talk about your new team. Talk about the Bay Area. Whatever. If OKC comes up in conversation stick to the script I just laid out above.

If he said something along those lines in his departure and then shut the hell up about it, mark it down on his return he would have gotten very few boos, and tons of applause, and NONE of the vitriol and national derision he is now experiencing. He has made this so much more difficult than it had to be. His victim narrative is so transparent. What a weak-minded insecure individual he is. It is crazy.

----------


## d-usa

His own argument makes a point against him as well. "The team was weak, if Westbrook was out we didn't have anyone to pick up the slack", and he was right. Turns out a Thunder without Westbrook was worse than a Thunder without Durant. That says more about KD than the Thunder though.

I'm only a casual follower of the NBA, and I have to say that prior to last year I always felt that Westbrook was the asshole of the team. Turns out I was wrong, and that probably came from me only seeing his game-time persona.

----------


## Urbanized

Since 2008 I have been on the Russ train and I was always a bit suspicious of KD's heart, determination and sincerity. I have had many spirited discussions with friends, on social media and even on this board when I said in the past that if we lost one guy I'd rather it be KD. I have always thought that Russ was the guy I'd rather build a team around, warts and all. As far as I'm concerned KD will likely never be more than the greatest role player of all time. He is the OPPOSITE of a leader.

----------


## dankrutka

> Softest player in sports history.


Would you say KD is as soft as a cake? Not even a big cake, but maybe a small cake that can fit in a cup.

----------


## Urbanized

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...elf/682654001/

----------


## OKC_on_mines

> ^^^^^^^
> 100% agree. Just smile and flash your ring at people and shut up. 
> 
> Here's all he needed to do/say when he left: "I know this is disappointing to OKC fans and my teammates, who have supported me and seen me through so much. This in particular made it a hugely difficult decision for me. But I just felt like Golden State was a better fit for me at this point. I will always treasure my time here, and I hope there comes a time when the people who have been so great to me will understand my decision and forgive me for leaving. Until then OKC will always have a special place in my heart and I wish everyone the best." And after that, SHUT UP. Talk about your new team. Talk about the Bay Area. Whatever. If OKC comes up in conversation stick to the script I just laid out above.
> 
> If he said something along those lines in his departure and then shut the hell up about it, mark it down on his return he would have gotten very few boos, and tons of applause, and NONE of the vitriol and national derision he is now experiencing. He has made this so much more difficult than it had to be. His victim narrative is so transparent. What a weak-minded insecure individual he is. It is crazy.


But that's why we should ignore and press on. Screw him dude. His insecurities and childishness show up consistently. But who cares. He isn't here anymore. It infuriates me when those dopes at ESPN pretend like we cared about him choosing to leave. Nahhhh bruh, he is a grown man. Its not that he left, its the fact that the guy conspired with members of our rival BEFORE he left and then when we had the chance to finish them off the guy went 7-40 and he jacked up bricks all game long. Only for him and his family to take cheap shots at OUr city after we showed them love while they were here????

Yeah im pissed too. But I don't care to give them any of my energy or let them take up any space in my head. On to the next is how I see it. Westbrook is better than that string bean anyway. And if Westbrook leaves then im still gone rock my THUNDER gear anyway.

Eff durant, eff his family, Eff ESPN, Eff those socks with the bell on them and Eff everything they stand for.....OUr jerseys are blue and OUr sky is too. This is OKC. 

We don't look back because were too busy looking forward to all that GOD has in store for us!

#OKC_ON_MINES

----------


## OKC_on_mines

> Would you say KD is as soft as a cake? Not even a big cake, but maybe a small cake that can fit in a cup.


Cupcake lmbo!

----------


## ShadowStrings

Carmelo to the Thunder! Trading Kanter and McDermott.

----------


## Roger S

Yep.... We may struggle on the defensive end a bit but they may have to change the nets after each quarter with all the points Russ, PG13, and Melo are going to be scoring.

----------


## dankrutka

> Yep.... We may struggle on the defensive end a bit but they may have to change the nets after each quarter with all the points Russ, PG13, and Melo are going to be scoring.


If anything this makes OKC better defensively. Kanter and McBuckets were maybe the two worst defensive players on the team. When Melo plays the 4 he can be average. OKC's defense actually might still be better than the offense. I think OKC has a top 5, maybe top 3 defense.

----------


## dankrutka

OKC will have some chemistry role issues to work out (Melo and PG will need play the 4), but this really raises OKC's ceiling a lot. Kanter and McBuckets were not helpful against OKC's primary competition at the top of the league, especially Houston and Gloden State. Melo at the 4 is much more useful. In short, this really raises OKC's ceiling, especially in the playoffs. 

Having said all that, I will really miss Enes. No player has embraced OKC like him. I also appreciated that he spoke out for justice (particuarly in regards to Erdogan's dicatatorial and abusive regime) and embraced diversity. Enes constantly talked about Oklahoma being home and used the hashtag #OklaHome regularly. He was always so positive. I'm going to miss him being on the team.

----------


## Laramie

*Carmelo Anthony added Thunder to his list of preferred destinations; then got traded to them.*

SB Nation:  https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/23/1...-oklahoma-city

Westbrook - Anthony - George = WAG

Game on, the Thunder are ready to challenge any NBA team for the NBA championship including Cupcake & his Golden State Buns.

----------


## Easy180

Reallly excited for the season now but wondering how bad our bench will be scoring wise.

----------


## dankrutka

> Reallly excited for the season now but wondering how bad our bench will be scoring wise.


The bench should be fine, in my opinion. The bench will now have Patterson, Abrines, Felton, and Grant, which makes for a solid 9-man rotation. When the Thunder go deeper then they will have to go to some unproven guys. But more than anything, Donovan should be staggering Russ, PG, and Melo's minutes so one of them is always on the floor. 

Or, if we want to get crazy, there's already some rumors about adding D-Wade if he is bought out as is expected.  :Wink:

----------


## Laramie

ESPN:  Oklahoma City Thunder Roster update includes Carmelo Anthony - http://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/...thunderhttp://

Russell Westbrook  $28,530,608
Carmelo Anthony $26,243,760
Paul George  $19,508,958

----------


## dankrutka

I could see OKC having to waste an asset like a future pick to get rid of Singler's contract and avoid more of the tax.

----------


## Urbanized

In my ticket draft I got the opening game with Knicks (and Enes) visiting their former teammate Carmelo, AND I got the first GSW game. Hello, StubHub! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

----------


## Urbanized

> The bench should be fine, in my opinion. The bench will now have Patterson, Abrines, Felton, and Grant, which makes for a solid 9-man rotation...


Two guys who have been regular starters on good teams and two guys with tremendous upside and potential to become starters free or somewhere in the future.

----------


## Jake

Much better starting lineup with a deeper bench than last year's. If Westbrook George, and Melo all leave, the Thunder have shed all their awful contracts and will allow them to start the rebuilding process faster.

----------


## Laramie

Oklahoma City Thunder's big three has game...

----------


## Thomas Vu

The most gung-ho guy about being in Oklahoma and on the Thunder.  Gets traded.  I think I'm in the minority in saying that I'll miss him.

----------


## Roger S

> The most gung-ho guy about being in Oklahoma and on the Thunder.  Gets traded.  I think I'm in the minority in saying that I'll miss him.


Don't know about the minority... I hate to see him go too due to his enthusiasm about being here. 

Unfortunately as we both know.. It's a part of the business.

----------


## chuck5815

> The most gung-ho guy about being in Oklahoma and on the Thunder.  Gets traded.  I think I'm in the minority in saying that I'll miss him.


Sure, but his contract was absolutely terrible, and he was a complete liability when playing teams like GSW and SAS. Of course Carmello isn't necessarily known for his defense either, but we should be able to score with just about anyone at this point.

----------


## Easy180

> The most gung-ho guy about being in Oklahoma and on the Thunder.  Gets traded.  I think I'm in the minority in saying that I'll miss him.


He will be missed for sure but today’s game doesn’t work well with two bigs.

----------


## Jake

Thunder signed PG Trey Burke today as well.

----------


## Laramie

Trey Burke?

Age 24, Born Columbus, OH  #33 PG 6' 1", 191 lbs

https://www.basketball-reference.com...burketr01.html

----------


## Bellaboo

Semaj Christon will probably get cut.

----------


## dankrutka

Trey Burke is just invited to compete against Semaj in camp. Burke has been terrible. As bad as Semaj is, he is at least a good defender, which is more valuable for a guy who is not really expected to play. Burke could beat Semaj out, but he's not much to get excited about.

----------


## dankrutka

> The most gung-ho guy about being in Oklahoma and on the Thunder.  Gets traded.  I think I'm in the minority in saying that I'll miss him.


I actually think you're in the vast majority. Kanter is really loved because he embraced the city like no other Thunder player. Kanter lost contact with his family because of an authoritarian, murderous dicatator. It meant a lot to Kanter to have a home in OKC. I am really bummed to see him leave. 

Having said that, this trade was a smart basketball move.

----------


## Laramie

Dan,

Does the Thunder have enough of these decent defenders that can't seem to play a lick of offense.   Perkins was good for 3 or 4 points a game, he was intimidating on defense.

Thunder still has 17 on their current roster with the Anthony change: http://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/...a-city-thunder

My guess, Semaj Christian, Daniel Hamilton & Norris Cole; two of the three are probably hanging by a thread.

Hint:  No salary listed for Hamilton or Cole...

----------


## dankrutka

Hamilton and Cole are not real candidates for the team. Also, appears Trey Burke changed his mind on coming to camp with OKC. Barring a trade, Semaj still likely for that 15th spot.

----------


## Thomas Vu

> I actually think you're in the vast majority. Kanter is really loved because he embraced the city like no other Thunder player. Kanter lost contact with his family because of an authoritarian, murderous dicatator. It meant a lot to Kanter to have a home in OKC. I am really bummed to see him leave. 
> 
> Having said that, this trade was a smart basketball move.


We're going to agree to disagree.  I'm basing my comment from the beginning of this off season.  

How many more years are on Melo's contract vs Kanters?

----------


## HOT ROD

> I could see OKC having to waste an asset like a future pick to get rid of Singler's contract and avoid more of the tax.


I so wish we could have offloaded Singler to the NYK instead of Kanter. I hope Enes somehow maintains a relationship with OKC and its budding Turkish community along N May. So sad to see him go.

But GREAT to get Melo, I called this back in July when it was first reported that OKC was 'talking' with him - I knew it was WB going out and getting guys he WANTS to play with and that Presti and Co believe we need to succeed. Now, OKC has a legitimate Big 3 (and maybe a Big 4 if you include Adams, who WILL have to step up) to IMO exceed Houston (far exceed SAS) and hand-idly challenge GSW. I knew Melo was coming once it was clear Houston couldn't make it happen. Nobody really gave OKC credit but now 'everybody' online is discounting Melo as a has been since he's now in OKC. ...

Well, I say - good luck but that OKC finally has the IT guys on the team that should result in OKC being an elite contender. The ONLY issue I have is do we have enough time to get the guys to gel AND does RWB sign or wait and do a lower contract next year to keep everything together, in OKC.

So much for the Big City market argument or that OKC wouldn't pay/afford the luxury tax. But hopefully guys can be a bit more humble and live moreso off their sponsorship deals to make things work. Can't wait for the season, especially how well we'll do now against GSW.

OKC's starting lineup is already the best in the NBA: Westbrook, Roberson, PG13, Melo, Adams - OMG!

----------


## HOT ROD

> Since 2008 I have been on the Russ train and I was always a bit suspicious of KD's heart, determination and sincerity. I have had many spirited discussions with friends, on social media and even on this board when I said in the past that if we lost one guy I'd rather it be KD. I have always thought that Russ was the guy I'd rather build a team around, warts and all. As far as I'm concerned KD will likely never be more than the greatest role player of all time. He is the OPPOSITE of a leader.


I've also had these same feelings and conversations all along. Russ was always #1 to me and I hated it when everybody blamed everything on him and gave KD the accolades for the victories. 

Now I wanna see what KD has to say now that OKC has leveled the playing field quite a bit; I think OKC starting line will be the best in the NBA (esp if Roberson and Adam can develop their goto shot), even though GSW bench is still better.

----------


## dankrutka

To clarify, Kanter had to be in this deal to make salaries work.

----------


## dankrutka

Most people probably know this, but Melo is aging and I think this team will be better in the playoffs than regular season. I don't think this move will make a big difference in the regular season as I still think OKC  will finish between second and fourth. Unfortunately, the Warriors are still dramatically better than us. Major injuries are probably still OKC's only hope. But we're back in the game in more ways than one. First and foremost, I think this will encourage Russ to stay and others to consider staying. I never would have imagined OKC could get high profile players like PG and Melo.  I'm sometimes still amazed that OKC has a team.  :Smile:

----------


## Laramie

> To clarify, Kanter had to be in this deal to make salaries work.


Correct!   Those trades have to come very close to matching is salaries; then, you can justify a future draft pick to seal the deal.

The combo big three of Westbrook, Anthony & George should make our Thunder competitive against any NBA franchise.

----------


## chuck5815

OKC had 66-1 odds of winning the 2018 championship when the offseason began, and those odds have skyrocketed to 16-1 after acquiring PG3 and Hoodie Melo. You just have to tip your hat to Sam Presti; the guy is a miracle worker.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/okcs-nba-championship-odds-jump-to-161-after-acquiring-carmelo-anthony/amp/

----------


## Thomas Vu

In addition, don't get distracted by the Bulls converting Gary Harris, Jusuf Nurkic, Doug McDermott, Taj Gibson, and a 2nd round pick into Cam Payne.

----------


## Teo9969

Obviously this is a great move for OKC. Still quite a ways from being better than the Warriors, but in the age of unbalanced rosters, we are at least now in a position to beat the Warriors, even in a best of seven.

I think you solve the similar player issues with Melo/George by lots of staggering with those two. They also both have obvious pairings at SG (Memo+Robes, George+Abrines)

So much of OKC's ceiling is still going to be determined by what kinds of steps forward Grant and Abrines make. If we can count on them to average 18-20 points between them and to be acceptable defenseman, then watch out. We know that Patterson is a great fit for this team, and Adams' contribution on both ends of the floor should look markedly improved...but if this team is going to win it all, I really think Abrines+Grant+Patterson+Felton are going to have to come in and be markedly better than Iggy+Livingston+Young+Javale/West

We better enjoy the hell out of this season, because it might be our last good one for SEVERAL years coming.

----------


## Bellaboo

2 things - Trey Burke has now declined and Melo has lost 15 pounds over the summer. Best condition he's been in for years.

And one more  - Melo rescinded the trade kicker which would have cost the Thunder 8 million as a bonus to sign him. Now that's a sacrifice to play here.

----------


## Laramie

Roberson's role will continue as a starter with special assignments; to be a hit man to hound & get inside the head of individual players like K.D., Curry, Leonard, Parker, Lillard...



Stephen A.: Knicks made right move considering circumstances

----------


## Laramie

Listen, bricklayer hands, you've had all summer to improve your free throw shots.  Thunder fans expect you to improve in this area.  2016-17 you shot 42.5% in the regular season & 14.3% in the post season--Let us see a new Dre in free throws:  GOAL  60%

----------


## OKC_on_mines

> In addition, don't get distracted by the Bulls converting Gary Harris, Jusuf Nurkic, Doug McDermott, Taj Gibson, and a 2nd round pick into Cam Payne.


More than how well OKC develops players and the top notch nutrition we have here (expressed by players of old and current) I feel like Sam Presti does a magnificent job of pulling off these deals where we win big and only give up a little here or there. At times I wonder if the guy has these other teams on camera doing something illegal lol.....because he is just stealing. IMHO - best GM in the NBA. Collectively, according to experts who.have played in the league, Presti is easily a top 5 maybe even top 3 consensus GM in the NBA.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

> Listen, bricklayer hands, you've had all summer to improve your free throw shots.  Thunder fans expect you to improve in this area.  2016-17 you shot 42.5% in the regular season & 14.3% in the post season--Let us see a new Dre in free throws:  GOAL  60%


Damn laramie Lmbo.....posted his picture and everything lol

----------


## dankrutka

Isaiah Canaan is now coming in instead of Trey Burke to compete with Semaj for the third string point guard spot. I would take Canaan over either Semaj or Burke. He's a better shooter, which can help keep the floor spaced. 

Also, Dwyane Wade "liked" a tweet about a rumor if him coming to OKC. If he's coming on the minimum for his age and he accepts a lesser role then he'd be a great addition to the bolster the bench. The problem with Anthony and Wade is that aging superstars sometimes struggle accepting lesser roles to help the team win. It's a hard adjustment to make. But the reality is that I would only want Wade as long as he accepts that Roberson may be on the floor at the end of the game instead of him. Patterson may need to be out there instead of Anthony at times. That's a hard pill to swallow for superstars, but that's what OKC will need out of them.

----------


## Laramie

> Isaiah Canaan is now coming in instead of Trey Burke to compete with Semaj for the third string point guard spot. I would take Canaan over either Semaj or Burke. He's a better shooter, which can help keep the floor spaced. 
> 
> Also, Dwyane Wade "liked" a tweet about a rumor if him coming to OKC. If he's coming on the minimum for his age and he accepts a lesser role then he'd be a great addition to the bolster the bench. The problem with Anthony and Wade is that aging superstars sometimes struggle accepting lesser roles to help the team win. It's a hard adjustment to make. But the reality is that I would only want Wade as long as he accepts that Roberson may be on the floor at the end of the game instead of him. Patterson may need to be out there instead of Anthony at times. That's a hard pill to swallow for superstars, but that's what OKC will need out of them.


I'm not so sure about superstars accepting lesser roles, let's face it if they can't perform beyond 28 like they did when they were in their prime playing days--why would you be concerned about a reduced role or playing time.

Raymond Felton should be a great backup for RW.

----------


## dankrutka

> I'm not so sure about superstars accepting lesser roles, let's face it if they can't perform beyond 28 like they did when they were in their prime playing days--why would you be concerned about a reduced role or playing time.


It seems like we're saying the same thing, but I can't tell...

----------


## Thomas Vu

> Listen, bricklayer hands, you've had all summer to improve your free throw shots.  Thunder fans expect you to improve in this area.  2016-17 you shot 42.5% in the regular season & 14.3% in the post season--Let us see a new Dre in free throws:  GOAL  60%


Anyone who's seen me talk Roberson knows that I don't like him. Having that said, i bet if his practices were filmed/recorded you'd see him making them all the time.  Happens to DJ/DH/Drummond all the time.

----------


## dankrutka

Spoiler alert: Roberson will never be a good free throw or three point shooter. The sooner you accept that the more you can focus on how his elite defense results in him helping the team tremendously. Almost all advanced stats suggest that despite his shooting, Robes helps OKC win games. He's almost always in OKC's most effective lineups. And he fits especially well on this reconstructed team as a defensive stopper. 

Hopefully, Donovan can figure out ways to use Roberson to slash to the basket more, not just stand still around the three point line. This may be more doable with so many competent three point shooters added to the roster in Melo, PG3, and Patterson. Even Felton and, if he makes the team, Isaiah Canaan, would be a big upgrade from three (D-Wade or Semaj would not).

And, I promise you all, Roberson works on his free throws non-stop. It's not a work ethic issue and hard work may not result in any improvements. Roberson is not the first player to have this problem. 

Having said all that, he's one of the top 3 wing defenders on planet earth. His versatility, speed, and intelligence are off the charts. If you focus on Roberson's tremendous defensive talents instead of his weaknesses, you'll enjoy watching him more.

----------


## king183

> Spoiler alert: Roberson will never be a good free throw or three point shooter. The sooner you accept that the more you can focus on how his elite defense results in him helping the team tremendously. Almost all advanced stats suggest that despite his shooting, Robes helps OKC win games. He's almost always in OKC's most effective lineups. And he fits especially well on this reconstructed team as a defensive stopper. 
> 
> Hopefully, Donovan can figure out ways to use Roberson to slash to the basket more, not just stand still around the three point line. This may be more doable with so many competent three point shooters added to the roster in Melo, PG3, and Patterson. Even Felton and, if he makes the team, Isaiah Canaan, would be a big upgrade from three (D-Wade or Semaj would not).
> 
> And, I promise you all, Roberson works on his free throws non-stop. It's not a work ethic issue and hard work may not result in any improvements. Roberson is not the first player to have this problem. 
> 
> Having said all that, he's one of the top 3 wing defenders on planet earth. His versatility, speed, and intelligence are off the charts. If you focus on Roberson's tremendous defensive talents instead of his weaknesses, you'll enjoy watching him more.


Everyone, please read the above. His FT shooting may be frustrating, but that's not why he's on the team. We have one of the best defenders in the NBA. He has repeatedly shut down top offensive threats and it's awesome to watch.

----------


## Roger S

> Everyone, please read the above. His FT shooting may be frustrating, but that's not why he's on the team. We have one of the best defenders in the NBA. He has repeatedly shut down top offensive threats and it's awesome to watch.


Awesome if you love defense (raises hand)... Unfortunately most fans really only care to see flashy crossovers that break ankles and backboard shattering dunks.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^
Agree wholeheartedly with the last three posts.

----------


## shawnw

Surprised there's no talk about the tweets last night talking about melo and george trying to get wade to come here... have those rumors been dispelled by now?

----------


## Anonymous.

Media day is filled with good information so far. Everyone looks so happy. And seeing these guys in their Thunder gear together is bizzare. I cannot believe that PG and Melo are actually in OKC now. What a rollercoaster the last 3 years have been for this front office and organization.

----------


## Thomas Vu

I think Woj reported that OKC could be in the mix for Wade.  

I've always wondered what went into saying he was elite though.  I looked at the stats, and tried breaking it down.  After tuning out all of the center positions and taller PF players the best light I could put him in is that he's top 10 in defensive box plus minus.

----------


## Anonymous.

Are you talking about Wade? If he comes here he would instantly be the best player on our bench. Roberson would start over him, because we need Dre to guard other team's main options. But like what is being reported, Lebron and Wade are obviously good friends and being on Lebron's team is a guarantee trip to the finals whereas the West is a total bloodbath before getting there.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Are you talking about Wade? If he comes here he would instantly be the best player on our bench. Roberson would start over him, because we need Dre to guard other team's main options. But like what is being reported, Lebron and Wade are obviously good friends and being on Lebron's team is a guarantee trip to the finals whereas the West is a total bloodbath before getting there.


I get that sentiment, but would you rather have a better chance to win the finals or to just get there? I would argue that he would have a better opportunity to win a championship if he joined the Thunder. Either way, OKC or Cleveland will have to get passed GSW...whether that’s in the WCF or the FInals seems pretty irrelevant. The total salary each team can offer is pretty similar. Wade is good friends with both Melo and PG13 too and spent a bunch of time working out and traveling with both of them last summer. WOJ said that those guys are aggressively pursuing him so it would seem like we’ve got a pretty decent shot.

----------


## chuck5815

> Are you talking about Wade? If he comes here he would instantly be the best player on our bench. Roberson would start over him, because we need Dre to guard other team's main options. But like what is being reported, Lebron and Wade are obviously good friends and *being on Lebron's team is a guarantee trip to the finals* whereas the West is a total bloodbath before getting there.


Not necessarily. Boston is going to be a serious challenger in the East this year.

----------


## dankrutka

If we can get Wade for 2.3 million you do it, but it's just important to remember that he's an injury prone 35-year old whose numbers and athleticism have dropped off. He's also a bad three point shooter who can hurt team spacing. The game has changed since Wade was elite. If Wade and his teammates still see him as a star then he could take minutes from Abrines and Roberson who might better complement other players on the court as a three point shooter and defensive specialist. Abrines is a mucher better three point shooter, he had a higher effective field goal percentage and offensive rating than Wade last season, but Wade is better at most everything else (see stats). If you can get Wade then I would definitely do it even if it is not a clean fit. I just hope Donovan doesn't feel pressured to play him in crunch time if he's not the best option. That pressure can be real. But it would be fun, wouldn't it?!?

----------


## Laramie

*Melo, Paul George want Dwyane Wade to sign with Thunder:* http://thunder.247sports.com/Bolt/ca...unde-107973141




> A number of teams are interested in signing Wade but the Cavaliers and Thunder are reportedly the front-runners to land the future Hall of Famer. And while LeBron James' friendship with Wade may greatly benefit the Cavs, Carmelo Anthony and Paul George are hoping that he strongly considers the Thunder.




Small market Oklahoma City continues to be considered by free agents.
My concern:   At what point would all of these new additions become problematic for Westbrook; especially the addition of Wade.  Westbrook should welcome the new players; once he leaves the floor with a lead, he won't have to worry about losing his mind while he takes his bench rest.

----------


## Jake

Dwyane Wade apparently close to signing with Cleveland. Having Wade would've been nice, but I was worried he would potentially get minutes that Abrines deserved.

----------


## Bellaboo

Anthony is a big dude but Adams is such a giant.

----------


## Urbanized

Yes I think Abrines is poised for a breakout year. Not to drink the Kool-Aid - and I'm not predicting he is ever going to be an All-Star or anything - but I think he will be a household name among serious NBA hoop fans, sooner rather than later.

----------


## Laramie

*OKC's BIG THREE*

*Home* 



*Away*



*Starters*

----------


## chrisok

Expect some good news around 9:30 - 10:00 today from the Thunder. :Woowoo:

----------


## soonermike81

Singler released!?

----------


## Laramie

Good news?   If it gets any better, just don't think I can stand it.

----------


## Roger S

> Singler released!?


They said good news not INCREDIBLY AWESOME FANTASTIC news.  :Wink:

----------


## soonermike81

> They said good news not INCREDIBLY AWESOME FANTASTIC news.


I can hope, right?

----------


## tyeomans

So what's the news? It's 10:30.

----------


## Roger S

Well this news came out at 9:50..... Suppose that could be considered good news instead of old news.

----------


## tyeomans

> Well this news came out at 9:50..... Suppose that could be considered good news instead of old news.


This can't be it. I read about this yesterday.

----------


## chrisok

Should have known better than put a time frame on it.... Rookie mistake!
Hearing RW is supposed to sign his extension.

----------


## tyeomans

> Should have known better than put a time frame on it.... Rookie mistake!
> Hearing RW is supposed to sign his extension.


Where did you supposedly hear this?

----------


## chrisok

Well if I told you that I probably wouldn’t “hear” things anymore.. I usually get good info, but I suppose anything’s possible. Will just have to see how it plays out.

----------


## tyeomans

> Well if I told you that I probably wouldn’t “hear” things anymore.. I usually get good info, but I suppose anything’s possible. Will just have to see how it plays out.


Fingers are crossed!

----------


## Anonymous.

It would be interesting timing. Today is KD's birthday.

----------


## OkiePoke

> It would be interesting timing. Today is KD's birthday.


Hahaha.

----------


## Bellaboo

> It would be interesting timing. Today is KD's birthday.


Who's birthday ... ?

----------


## dankrutka

> Who's birthday ... ?


I think KD probably refers to Kirk Douglas or maybe  Kirsten Dunst. Russ wouldn't want to upstage them on their big days.

----------


## Roger S

> Who's birthday ... ?


Les Claypool of Primus.... Some of his fishing buddies call him KD... You didn't know that?  :Wink:

----------


## Bellaboo

> Les Claypool of Primus.... Some of his fishing buddies call him KD... You didn't know that?


Nope... and the particular one in reference will forever be kd in my book. I can't even capitalize it anymore.  smh, I know it's just me

----------


## Roger S

> Nope... and the particular one in reference will forever be kd in my book. I can't even capitalize it anymore.  smh, I know it's just me


kd lang?

----------


## sooner88

There it is!!!!!

----------


## Anonymous.

NICE!!!

On KD's brithday... can't make this stuff up lol.

----------


## Thomas Vu

Confirmed by Woj.  RW 205 5 years

----------


## Bellaboo

> Confirmed by Woj.  RW 205 5 years


It's all over it on ESPN about being on kd's birthday...

----------


## d-usa

I wonder if he will become one of the few guys wearing only one jersey for their career.

----------


## Jake

Presti dominated this offseason.

----------


## chrisok

Whew! Glad I didn't end up looking like a troll, even though I was a few hours off.   :Big Grin: 
He signed the contract this morning and was already sent to the league office before contract was announced. The way they manage to keep things secret over there is amazing.

----------


## Anonymous.

Honestly Presti may be the greatest GM of all time.. Not even exaggerating.

His drafting in the last 10 years. His rebounding after KD left him and this city in a pile of ashes. To turning this team back around into relevancy in just a single off-season. Now got the greatest PG in the league to re-up on a max deal?

If after this season PG and/or Melo want to stay with us, then I think there is no question about Presti being the GOAT.

----------


## Rover

Let's not forget Clay and the owners who stepped up BIG TIME.  Maybe it's time to put these guys in charge of our STATE.

----------


## Laramie

This was the _BREAKING NEWS_ we expected to hear between 9:30 & 10 a.m. this morning:

Russell Westbrook extension signed with Oklahoma City Thunder  .  Per WOJ (Andrian Wojnarowski), $205 million extension for the next six years at a total of $233 million, biggest total in league history.     

The extension was signed on Kevin Durant's birthday:




> Russell Westbrook has agreed to a five-year, $205M contract extension with OKC, league sources tell ESPN.
> 12:15 PM - 29 Sep 2017

----------


## Laramie

*
Russell Westbrook signing...*

----------


## king183

Trying to decide whether to spend time finding DCSooner's and ChrisB's posts about how Russ was gone and OKC will never sign a star.

Nahhh, I'll just focus on how amazing it is we have one of the best players in the NBA in OKC for the long term.

----------


## Dustin

> This was the _BREAKING NEWS_ we expected to hear between 9:30 & 10 a.m. this morning:
> 
> Russell Westbrook extension signed with Oklahoma City Thunder  .  Per WOJ (Andrian Wojnarowski), $205 million extension for the next six years at a total of $233 million, biggest total in league history.     
> 
> *The extension was signed on Kevin Durant's birthday*:


Damn.

----------


## HangryHippo

Dudes a straight savage.

----------


## Laramie

Russell Westbrook extension signed with Oklahoma City Thunder...


_Time to rename Oklahoma City Boulevard..._  :Big Grin:

----------


## dcsooner

> Trying to decide whether to spend time finding DCSooner's and ChrisB's posts about how Russ was gone and OKC will never sign a star.
> 
> Nahhh, I'll just focus on how amazing it is we have one of the best players in the NBA in OKC for the long term.


Won't find a post that said he definitively would not sign. I have said and maintain OKC still lacks the black population (rather small), urban density (24 hour entertainment and dining options) and sophistication many young, rich, black desire. Make OKC more black friendly meaning more entertainment venues bringing in top black acts and less cowboyish and its reputation may improve. Jason Whitlock commented how interesting it will be to see Carmelos wife LaLa eating at Chili's intimating OKC lacks sophistication. His characterization is not totally true, but a view held by many non native Blacks who view the State as super white (7% black )and uber conservative (all Red). In case you don't know blacks are overwhelmingly blue.

Listen, the more OKC can provide lifestyle choices that cater to the 75% of NBA players that are black, the better.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

Well, dcsooner, as we all know, Westbrook is here to stay. Carmelo and Paul can just be his one and done sidekicks. Cause none of the above is going to happen in their wanting timeframe or yours, if that's truly what they want based on your view.

----------


## dcsooner

> Well, dcsooner, as we all know, Westbrook is here to stay. Carmelo and Paul can just be his one and done sidekicks. Cause none of the above is going to happen in their wanting timeframe or yours, if th,at's truly what they want based on your view.


My comments go beyond the two great players you mentioned  but as usual many cannot or do not want to see nor try to understand them.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

> My comments goes beyond just these two men but as usual many cannot or do not want to see nor understand them.


Maybe you're disillusioned.  I'm not in a postition to make those types of changes so until they happen which could very possibly be 200 years from now after white genocide, I...just...don't...know...what...to...tell...you.  I'm just making a simple observation.

----------


## dankrutka

> Whew! Glad I didn't end up looking like a troll, even though I was a few hours off.  
> He signed the contract this morning and was already sent to the league office before contract was announced. The way they manage to keep things secret over there is amazing.


Props!

----------


## Laramie

> Won't find a post that said he definitively would not sign. I have said and maintain OKC still lacks the black population (rather small), urban density (24 hour entertainment and dining options) and sophistication many young, rich, black desire. Make OKC more black friendly meaning more entertainment venues bringing in top black acts and less cowboyish and its reputation may improve. Jason Whitlock commented how interesting it will be to see Carmelos wife LaLa eating at Chili's intimating OKC lacks sophistication. His characterization is not totally true, but a view held by many non native Blacks who view the State as super white (7% black )and uber conservative (all Red). In case you don't know blacks are overwhelmingly blue.
> 
> Listen, the more OKC can provide lifestyle choices that cater to the 75% of NBA players that are black, the better.


We fought for years to get away from segregation; what makes you think people want to revisit that era?

----------


## dcsooner

> We fought for years to get away from segregation; what makes you think people want to revisit that era?


It amazes me how people really don't read my posts to gain an understanding of my points. Nothing in my previous posts speak to segregation, nothing.
Repost:
I have said and maintain OKC still lacks the black population (rather small), urban density (24 hour entertainment and dining options) and sophistication many young, rich, black desire. Make OKC more black friendly *meaning* more entertainment venues bringing in top black acts and less cowboyish and its reputation may improve. Jason Whitlock commented how interesting it will be to see Carmelos wife LaLa eating at Chili's intimating OKC lacks sophistication. His characterization is not totally true, but a view held by many non native Blacks who view the State as super white (7% black )and uber conservative (all Red). In case you don't know blacks are overwhelmingly blue.

----------


## dankrutka

dcsooner, one point in your post that is troubling is that for some reason you're repeating Jason Whitlock's stereotypes about the culture of OKC. OKC has a good culinary scene for a city of its size. In many ways, OKC has already addressed the generic chain stereotype you've brought up. 

There are some ways OKC is becoming a more multicultural city. For example, Tower Theatre has an explicit focus on bringing in hip hop acts. I just saw Talib Kweli there earlier this month. Of course, OKC will never become a hub for African American culture like many other cities. More progress can be made. 

Instead of just critiquing what's wrong, how about some specific suggestions for realistic changes.

P.S. I am having trouble understanding the segregation claims others attributed to dcsooner, but dc certainly didn't suggest that even though racial school re-segregation is a problem in OKC and the rest of the country (NYC has the most segregated schools in the country).

Oh, and the concept of white genocide is a white supremacist concept that is pure garbage. Please keep that crap in the politics section.

----------


## Laramie

> It amazes me how people really don't read my posts to gain an understanding of my points. Nothing in my previous posts speak to segregation, nothing.
> Repost:
> I have said and maintain OKC still lacks the black population (rather small), urban density *(24 hour entertainment and dining options)* and sophistication many young, rich, black desire. Make OKC more black friendly *meaning* more entertainment venues bringing in top black acts and less cowboyish and its reputation may improve. Jason Whitlock commented how interesting it will be to see Carmelos wife LaLa eating at Chili's intimating OKC lacks sophistication. His characterization is not totally true, but a view held by many non native Blacks who view the State as super white (7% black )and uber conservative (all Red). In case you don't know blacks are overwhelmingly blue.


Not sure of what you think OKC is lacking;  how many 24 hrs  entertainment & dining options does OKC possess as a whole (This place is dead after 2 a.m.):

2010 census population (rank): 579,999 (31); Male: 285,556 (49.2%); Female: 294,443 (50.8%); White: 363,646 (62.7%); *Black: 87,354 (15.1%);* American Indian and Alaska Native: 20,533 (3.5%); Asian: 23,310 (4.0%); Other race: 54,593 (9.4%); Two or more races: 29,977 (5.2%); Hispanic/Latino: 100,038 (17.2%). 2010 percent population 18 and over: 74.6%; 65 and over: 11.3%; Median age: 34.0.

Young rick blacks aren't seeking to be around just other blacks;  they blend in with the population.   If they are rich or well-to-do, they seek places that spark their interest--it has nothing to do with being around other blacks.   Now, some of those not so well-to-do often seek out places that  provide inexpensive amenities which often limits their choices.


Where did you get 7% (Metro?) & what do you suggest would make OKC a better place for blacks?

----------


## Laramie

*Today's Thunderfest @ Edmond North High School:


*
*Anyone lucky enough to get tickets to the 'Blue & White Scrimmage' at the Edmond North High School Gymnasium?*

With the high profile players on our Thunder roster; maybe future events should be held at The Peake.
Oklahoma City will begin its 12th year as an NBA City _(+Hornets' 2 years)._ Thunder have enjoyed regular season sellouts since 2010 _(297 consecutive sellouts ending the 16-17 season)._

*Do you believe OKC is a well-established NBA city; could we survive a rebuild?*

----------


## BlackmoreRulz

I live about two blocks from North, sounds like there's quite a crowd there already.

----------


## ABCOKC

> Oh, and the concept of white genocide is a white supremacist concept that is pure garbage. Please keep that crap in the politics section.


_You_ of all people are asking for politics to be left in the Politics forum? _Oy vey_.

----------


## dankrutka

> _You_ of all people are asking for politics to be left in the Politics forum? _Oy vey_.


Politics are inherent to many issues and I am sure I have brought up _political_ issues in many threads, but I make an effort not to be _partisan_. While the line may be blurry, I've certainly tried not to call names or stereotypes groups, including political parties. However, there's just no place for white supremacist concepts in the "2017-2018 Oklahoma City Thunder" thread. I only used two sentences to point that out. Happy to discuss privately if you wish as I'm always trying to improve how I communicate ideas to others, especially online as it can be tricky. Best.

----------


## dankrutka

Back to Thunder topics. Russ, Abrines, and Patterson all sat out the scrimmage today. With a shortened preseason, I hope all three are ready to go for the regular season opener. I think one of the most interesting questions around this team is who else will get minutes outside of the top 9, which include these players at generally these positions (in a time when positions shift):
PG - Russ, Felton
SG -  Roberson, Abrines
SF - George. Grant
PF - Carmelo, Patterson
C - Adams

I suspect Grant and Patterson will both have opportunities to move up a position in small lineups. Beyond that, I actually have trouble envisioning any of these guys getting minutes: Collison (getting pretty old), Terrance Ferguson (only 19!), Josh Huestis (just no signs he's getting a chance), Kyle Singer (he's bad), Dakari Johnson (unathletic big), and whoever gets the 15th slot (probably Isaiah Canaan or Semaj). When/if the Thunder have any injuries, it'll get even more interesting. I think the Thunder will be a player for buy-out candidates later in the season so they could get help there for the playoffs. Thoughts?

----------


## Laramie

Interested to see the progress Jerami Grant has made from last season.

----------


## Urbanized

> ...kyle singer (he's bad)...


Hahahahaha

----------


## Laramie

> Back to Thunder topics. Russ, Abrines, and Patterson all sat out the scrimmage today. With a shortened preseason, I hope all three are ready to go for the regular season opener. I think one of the most interesting questions around this team is who else will get minutes outside of the top 9, which include these players at generally these positions (in a time when positions shift):
> PG - Russ, Felton
> SG -  Roberson, Abrines
> SF - George. Grant
> PF - Carmelo, Patterson
> C - Adams
> 
> *I suspect Grant and Patterson will both have opportunities to move up a position in small lineups.* Beyond that, I actually have trouble envisioning any of these guys getting minutes: Collison (getting pretty old), *Terrance Ferguson (only 19!),* Josh Huestis (just no signs he's getting a chance), Kyle Singer (he's bad), Dakari Johnson (unathletic big), and whoever gets the 15th slot (probably Isaiah Canaan or Semaj). When/if the Thunder have any injuries, it'll get even more interesting. I think the Thunder will be a player for buy-out candidates later in the season so they could get help there for the playoffs. Thoughts?


Good observation about Grant & Paterson's potential along with Ferguson, who will now get the opportunity to show what he can do in the big league.  Hope Cheevers are still feeding these guys; Fergy (6'7" - 185) looks like he could use an extra biscuit for breakfast.   :Big Grin:

----------


## Laramie

Thunder now have 3 *iso*lation play options _(Anthony, Westbrook & George)_; also, a potentially good strong reserve group.   Impressed with Ferguson, Grant & Felton so far--add Patterson & Abrines in the mix with any combination of starters & reserves Thunder should be competitive.

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/...thunderhttp://

----------


## Laramie

NBA Preseason at Chesapeake Energy Arena

*  Thunder 102 - Pelicans 91*

Box Score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400978810

----------


## dankrutka

After watching the pre-season games thus far, I am hoping Donovan gives the 10th/11th man minutes to Terrance Ferguson and Josh Huestis. Ferguson seems a lot more ready defensively than I expected for a 19-ear old and he just needs to get out on the break and spot up from 3 on offense. Huestis looked really active defensively today, particularly with those two late game blocks. With some of his defensive abilities, if Huestis can shoot just 33-34% percent three then he could find a role on the team.

----------


## Laramie

*Oklahoma City 86 - Melbourne United 85*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400978812

----------


## Laramie

*Preseason final:  Thunder 3 wins - 1 loss

Oklahoma City Thunder 96 - Denver Nuggets 86*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400978751

----------


## Laramie

*Yannis Morin*

Thunder Signs Morin and Wright

Posted: Oct 11, 2017
FACEBOOK
GOOGLE PLUS
TWITTER
OKLAHOMA CITY, Oct. 11, 2017  The Oklahoma City Thunder has signed center Yannis Morin and forward Chris Wright, it was announced today by Executive Vice President and General Manager Sam Presti. Per team policy, terms of the deals were not disclosed.

Morin (6-10, 210) played five games (one start) with the Thunder in the 2017 Orlando Pro Summer League and averaged 2.2 points and 4.0 rebounds in 13.5 minutes per game. He spent the 2016-17 season with Le Havre in France, where he appeared in 37 games (28 starts) and averaged 6.8 points, 7.4 rebounds, 1.84 blocks and 1.00 steal in 24.5 minutes per game.

The center played five total seasons in France, spending three seasons with Cholet Basket, one season each with Denain ASC Voltaire and Le Havre.

Wright (6-8, 226) was a member of the Oklahoma City Blue during the 2016-17 season. He appeared in 20 games (four starts) and averaged 9.9 points, 4.2 rebounds, 1.4 assists and 1.35 steals in 21.9 minutes per game.

The Ohio native previously appeared in 32 NBA games with the Milwaukee Bucks and Golden State Warriors and averaged 3.7 points and 2.0 rebounds in 9.8 minutes per contest.

----------


## Laramie

*Chris Wright*
Born: September 30, 1988 (age 29), Trotwood, Ohio, OH
Height: 6′ 8″
Salary: 980,431 USD (2016)

Chris Wright is an American professional basketball player for the Oklahoma City Thunder of the National Basketball Association. He played college basketball for the University of Dayton.

----------


## Laramie

*Thunder trim roster to 15: *  http://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/...thunderhttp://

Alex Abrines
Stephen Adams
Carmelo Anthony

Nick Collison

Raymond Felton
Terrance Ferguson

Paul George
Jerami Grant

Daniel Hamilton
Josh Huestis

Dakari Johnson

Patrick Patterson

Andre Roberson

Kyle Singler

Russell Westbrook

----------


## Laramie

Thunder signed Daniel Hamilton to a two-way contract in August; he will mostly play for the G-League Oklahoma City Blue, but the deal allows him 45 days with the Thunder during the season, and two-way salaries don’t count against team payroll. 

Hamilton is the 15th man on the roster listed by ESPN NBA Oklahoma City Thunder roster:  http://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/...a-city-thunder

It appears Presti will carry a 14 player roster, that would leave one roster spot open.

----------


## BoulderSooner

They can also sign another 2 way player

----------


## dankrutka

Two-way players don't count towards a roster spot and each team gets two. The Thunder are thus technically at 14 roster spots with one two-way contract.

----------


## Bellaboo

Does anyone know where the Halloween party / Nick Collison birthday party was held Saturday night ? In the past it has been at Empire Pizza, at least for a few years.

----------


## GISinOK

> Does anyone know where the Halloween party / Nick Collison birthday party was held Saturday night ? In the past it has been at Empire Pizza, at least for a few years.


There was really loud music coming from the rooftop of one of the buildings in Auto Alley. My guess is there?

----------


## Laramie

*P. J. Dozier, (Age: 20)
Point Guard 6' 6", 200 lbs - $815,615; P. J.  will wear #35*

Dozier will join Daniel Hamilton; they will spend most of the season with the franchise G League affiliate Oklahoma City Blue.

ESPN NBA Oklahoma City Thunder roster update:  http://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/...a-city-thunder

----------


## shawnw

> Does anyone know where the Halloween party / Nick Collison birthday party was held Saturday night ? In the past it has been at Empire Pizza, at least for a few years.





> There was really loud music coming from the rooftop of one of the buildings in Auto Alley. My guess is there?


There was also a Halloween party on the Montgomery rooftop but no idea what it was for.

----------


## dankrutka

The first game I picked in my ticket draft was the upcoming Celtics game... Awful for Gordon Hayward. Hope he heals quick, but that's likely a season-ender. Absolutely horrific.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

^^^^the reaction from players on both teams said it all. I hate it for Hayward.


Paul pierce picked us to win it all on "NBA: the jump". I am ecstatic about this upcoming season. #THUNDERUP

----------


## king183

> Does anyone know where the Halloween party / Nick Collison birthday party was held Saturday night ? In the past it has been at Empire Pizza, at least for a few years.


It was at Revolucion.

----------


## Bellaboo

> It was at Revolucion.


Thanks

----------


## Laramie

.
*OKC Thunder 105 - N. Y. Knicks 84*

Box score: http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400974441

----------


## OKC_on_mines

Defense looking good. Only going to get better.

----------


## kevin lee

Defense is already showing promise. Offensively we can get any shot we want. Hopefully we can move the ball just a little bit more an make that extra pass every few times down the floor.

----------


## warreng88

New food offerings on menu for Thunder fans

By: Molly M. Fleming  The Journal Record	October 18, 2017

OKLAHOMA CITY – The Oklahoma City Thunder was still in the NBA playoffs when Levy Restaurants Chef Ryan Craig was thinking about this season’s menu.

It had to be special. It’s the 10th season of Thunder basketball. He held a contest among the arena’s managers to come up with new menu ideas.

“It was a team effort,” he said.

Levy handles the food in the Continental Courtside Club and the suites on the second floor at Chesapeake Energy Arena.

Craig is paying tribute to Oklahoma with a chicken-fried cheeseburger, a Smoke Okie sandwich, and grilled chicken tenders and wedges. Those items are available on the second floor’s concession stands.

He also has the Carmelo sundae, playing off one of the team’s new additions, Carmelo Anthony.

“We’re having a hard time coming up with something for Paul George,” he said, jokingly.

In the Continental Courtside Club, ticket holders will find the space updated, with 30 additional seats and a more opened area. Lights around the center bar can display different colors, from orange and blue to red and green for Christmas.

The club is for the 504-courtside-ticket holders. Levy Regional Director Joe Guthrie said in the 90 minutes before the game, 350 people will visit the club. A rotating buffet menu is available to guests.

On the first floor, Budweiser Brew House has been revamped, with a new menu that is dotted with local farm names. Savor, the food and beverage side of arena management company SMG, oversees the menus on the first and third floors.

Savor Chef Andrew Murin said his menu has fewer items, though the price point stayed in the $15 to $20 range. He said the menu update was needed after a barbecue stand opened on the concourse. The brew house had a smoker and several barbecue items on its menu.

Murin worked with FreshPoint Inc.’s Shiloh Kline to find local farms and producers. His menu includes products from Square Dance Farms in Porum, Lovera’s in Krebs, and Crystal Lake Farms in Decatur, Arkansas.

Murin said he made his menu after seeing what items were available through FreshPoint and other distributors. He said he came up with some dishes that once they were costed out, they were too expensive for the menu.

“It was stressful, but it was fun,” he said. “It had to fit within the budget.”

Lovera’s has a Thunder bleu cheese that is on Murin’s menu. It’s orange in color, with a blue-color thread going through it.

The updated menu has a variety of flavors, ranging from house-made focaccia served with brew house butter, rotisserie chicken nachos, pan-seared king salmon, and lamb poutine.

Other additions on the first and third floors include new choices through the Wild Leaf line of wraps and sandwiches and homemade kolaches at Angie’s Southern Kitchen. Last year, Angie’s served homemade biscuits with different gravies. Murin said those items sold well, but he thinks it might have been too heavy for some people.

The third floor will also have the arena’s new Pick ‘N Roll convenience store. It will sell Wild Leaf items, bottled sodas, candy, and other items sold at a similar retailer. The space was previously used for storage, so no concession places were closed.

Savor Food and Beverage Director Kaarthik Iyer said NFL stadiums have convenience stores like this, but it’s new to NBA arenas.

The first floor is home to NBA’s first Mistify, a liquid nitrogen cocktail kiosk. It will sell made-to-order ice cream mixed with liquor. The company started at the Alamodome in San Antonio, Texas.

“The whole idea is for us to be as innovative as possible,” Iyer said. “We have our guests for 43 games. We have to give them different things to taste.”

----------


## Easy180

That was painful to watch especially against a bunch of average players. Can’t remember Russ ever playing that bad through all 4 quarters. Will take a while to get it together but they will need to play a whole lot better to win tonight.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

It sucks because though im living in OKLAHOMA I couldn't find a local broadcast of the THUNDER game. I don't have fox sports so im kind of bummed I couldn't watch my squad play. 4 points though? ""Gots'ta be mo careful"!    We will iron out the kinks eventually.

----------


## Jake

It might be until Christmas or later before the team begins to mesh well. None of the Big 3 are playing well together right now.

----------


## Thomas Vu

I think they're 2 or so passes each possession away from looking like your GSW, SA's, and to an extent CLE.  PG 13 and Melo will appreciate being single covered as opposed to double/triple covered.  Meanwhile everybody still collapses on Russ.

The offense still more or less looks the same, but the talent got better and it's going in the bucket more as a result.

----------


## Jake

Glad/Surprised they were able to keep it close at the end after being down double digits for most of the game. Paul George's shots simply were not falling. Like, reaaaally wide open ones. Team free throws are concerning (looking at you Roberson) but, overall, it was encouraging. 

OKC lost to two really good teams. It happens.

----------


## Thomas Vu

The thunder are in good company.  Same record as GSW

----------


## Anonymous.

Can someone explain why 2Pat is getting like zero playing time?

I know it is early, but Roberson is looking horrible right now. I wouldn't mind seeing literally any other player get some of those minutes. Even the defense hasn't been that stunning.

----------


## dankrutka

> Can someone explain why 2Pat is getting like zero playing time?


He's returning from an injury and not 100% yet. He'll definitely play a larger role when he's healthy and in shape. 




> I know it is early, but Roberson is looking horrible right now. I wouldn't mind seeing literally any other player get some of those minutes. Even the defense hasn't been that stunning.


Why do you say Roberson's defense hasn't been great? Roberson has to play for this team to be successful. He's a top 5 defensive player in the league and OKC needs him guarding players like Jimmy Butler. There is no one on the bench who even comes close to effecting the game the way he does defensively. Offensively, I fault Billy for not getting Roberson more active as a screener and pick and roll player. When Roberson is slashing to the basket he can more effective than hanging out on the perimeter. Having said that, Roberson has to get his mind right. It's clear that he's just psyched out at the line. Thinking way, way too much.

----------


## Thomas Vu

It probably doesn't go like that often cause his defender is already surrounding the paint.  They get to help their team by surrounding Adams for PnR, and going unpunished for leaving him open at the 3.

----------


## Bellaboo

PG13's shots were hitting the front of the rim, which is a sign of fatigue. He's averaging the most minutes on the team right now. Keep in mind this was the third game in 4 days, almost a scheduled loss after playing late Saturday and early Sunday.

It will come together in a week or two.

----------


## chuck5815

You just have to tip your hat to Andrew Wiggins. The kid is turning into the young Lebron James most experts thought he could become. I know he didn’t call “bank” on that last shot, but it was an amazing play nonetheless.

----------


## Laramie

Though loss.

Give these guys time to jell.  We have new additions to the team; they will need to adjust to one another.

----------


## Roger S

> You just have to tip your hat to Andrew Wiggins. The kid is turning into the young Lebron James most experts thought he could become. I know he didn’t call “bank” on that last shot, but it was an amazing play nonetheless.


Well I look at it as some karma for Melo.... in 2003 one and done Melo almost single handedly beat the Jayhawks for a National Championship and last night a former one and done Jayhawk stole his Thunder.

----------


## chuck5815

> Well I look at it as some karma for Melo.... in 2003 one and done Melo almost single handedly beat the Jayhawks for a National Championship and last night a former one and done Jayhawk stole his Thunder.


True. Although I would also argue that our own Nick Collison played a big role in the Jayhawks' defeat that night. He shot 3/10 from the free throw line.

----------


## dankrutka

> It probably doesn't go like that often cause his defender is already surrounding the paint.  They get to help their team by surrounding Adams for PnR, and going unpunished for leaving him open at the 3.


Which is why you put Robes in a pick and poll as a screener. If he screens for a playmaker and his man is in the paint then they would get destroyed with either wide open jump shots or free runs to the basket. Both of those actions require Andre's defender to come up on him.

----------


## Jake

Roberson has to be used as a screener/cutter and needs to move on offense or else his minutes will be seriously limited and he'll be relegated to 'specialty defender' status. The arrival of Paul George makes Roberson less of a dire need in the starting lineup and Roberson with the bench absolutely annihilates spacing. 

I'm aware of his defensive prowess as much as anyone, but him standing with his hands on his knees in the corner is inexcusable. His freethrows are obvious, but what's more frustrating is that he's been used like that for the past few years. Why?? He needs to move when he's on the floor or else he's borderline unplayable against teams that don't have dominate wing scorers.

Some of the blame rightfully falls on Roberson for his flaws, but if Billy doesn't utilize him properly when he's on the floor then he's as much to blame.

----------


## dankrutka

Even with Goerge, OKC doesn't have the luxury of just benching Roberson. Abrines was absolutely torched down the stretch. But, yeah, Roberson should probably play less against teams without dominant wings. If he can get his pyche right, I'd like to see his minutes swing between 15-20 (facing bad offensive wings) to 30-35 (facing great offensive wings).

----------


## Roger S

> True. Although I would also argue that our own Nick Collison played a big role in the Jayhawks' defeat that night. He shot 3/10 from the free throw line.


HAHA.... Umm... There's no reason to remember that!  :Wink:

----------


## Jake

Small sample size obviously, but I thought Josh Huestis played decent defense last night and rebounded the ball well. Ferguson sprained his ankle which is why Huestis played in the first place, but I'd like to see him get some more minutes to see what he's like. 

Dude's been in the G-League for like 13 years, see if he's useful or get rid of him.

----------


## dankrutka

#FreeHeustis

----------


## Jake

> #FreeHeustis


I'm completely on the Huestis train. Team played much better defense when he was in for Abrines. (I think Abrines is going to be good btw, but he's obviously not a defender)

----------


## OKC_on_mines

> Roberson has to be used as a screener/cutter and needs to move on offense or else his minutes will be seriously limited and he'll be relegated to 'specialty defender' status. The arrival of Paul George makes Roberson less of a dire need in the starting lineup and Roberson with the bench absolutely annihilates spacing. 
> 
> I'm aware of his defensive prowess as much as anyone, but him standing with his hands on his knees in the corner is inexcusable. His freethrows are obvious, but what's more frustrating is that he's been used like that for the past few years. Why?? He needs to move when he's on the floor or else he's borderline unplayable against teams that don't have dominate wing scorers.
> 
> Some of the blame rightfully falls on Roberson for his flaws, but if Billy doesn't utilize him properly when he's on the floor then he's as much to blame.


I get that people like his defense....I do too. But man its hard trying to convince yourself (myself) we need his defense when other teams completely disregard him in OUr half-court sets. Then we doubled down on him and sign him to another contract when Avery Bradley is out there who defends better than him and scores too. I like him and understand his defensive contributions but after so long we become insane to presume we can do the same things and get different results.

Then again, im sure I sound like such a hypocrite when expressing elation that we got carmelo Anthony yet expecting him to buckle down and play defense when it was never his strong-suit. I was skeptical at first but after the trade I have been all-in. Maybe we just need to give OUr thunder more time to gel?  I do like and trust Coach Donovan so I bet he gets this all figured out

----------


## Jake

Avery Bradly does not defend better than Roberson.

----------


## dankrutka

> Avery Bradly does not defend better than Roberson.


Roberson has his issues, but the number one problem with the anti-Roberson group is they refuse to admit that Roberson is an elite defender who changes the game on that end of the floor. He is head and shoulders above Avery Bradley not just because of his skill, but his defensive versatility (not saying I wouldn't consider a Bradley for Roberson trade). Part of this is that a lot of people see defense just being about effort, not as a skillset. Roberson has elite defensive skills that other players cannot replicate with effort.

I'm not tryhing to be a Roberson homer. His offesive problems, especially right now, are a real issue. But we can't ignore Roberson's track record of contributing to team success.

----------


## Jake

Per Fred Katz of the Norman Transcript, there are rumblings that Roberson had an injection in his knee before the season and Donovan hinted in interviews that he's "working his way back." Roberson isn't playing that well right now, but 2/3rds of the roster aren't really either. 

It's been literally 3 games. Just give him and the team time. I have faith Roberson will be fine, as will the rest of the players.

----------


## Anonymous.

I'm all for 'playoff Roberson'. But so far these first few games, it has been embarrassing. I felt horrible for him last night with those freethrows. His confidence has got to be at an all-time-low.

----------


## Jersey Boss

I feel terrible for the fans who have to watch his feeble attempts and the owners for paying him as a world class talent throwing up that garbage. I think the time has passed and he needs to start practicing the underhand technique of Rick Barry.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

^^^^^Lol 

I like Robertson I do. The guy is.....lets just call it ' challenged' on the offensive side of the ball, to say the least or be nice however you want to look at it. And its just my opinion but Avery Bradley is hands down better at guarding the 2 position. But that's why Andre is so valuable, the guy played as a big man at Colorado I believe. So he can grab boards and defend multiple positions.

But it doesn't matter what he does defensively when he handicaps the half court offensive sets. Its not hard to see it. Its clear as day. Guys just do not respect him and simply clog the lanes.

Look, I like Andre but.....Andrew wiggins? 10-20 for 27 points last night.

Like I said before. I trust coach Donovan to iron this out. Doubt there is a bigger THUNDER fan than me but I am also not blind.....he is a problem for us in OUr halfcourt offense....PERIOD! He sucks at free throws, he awkwardly shoots the ball before he jumps and the ball rolls off the side of his hand on the way there, he hairballs free throws....like, lmbo, the heck are we talking about here Lol.....he bet on his self and hit the free market then came right back to OKC. 

Its like, why can't we acknowledge the guy is a decent defender that sucks offensively (stating the obvious) without being a hater? Its the truth.....just wish we could have AT LEAST given Avery Bradley a shot.....A better 2 guard defender and WAAAAYYYY better offensively!

----------


## OKC_on_mines

If he was an ELITE defender surely somebody else would've out bid us. Lets stop kidding ourselves.

----------


## Thomas Vu

I think OKC_on_mines hit it on the head.  The "problem" with the "haters" is that we've poorly argued that there'd be a better trade off with an average 2 way player.  Call me out if I misinterpreted your point OKC_on_mines.

I thought I demonstrated that by pointing out the Kanter hypocrisy.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

Spot on for half the point. I just have trouble with the notion that pointing out Andre being a handicap for OUr half court sets makes me anti-Robertson. I actually like the guy. I have always hoped he could mature into half of what Jimmy butler does (or cj mccollum, klay Thompson, kawhi Leonard, Avery Bradley, the old wesley mathews, etc).

----------


## OKC_on_mines

I would argue the legitimacy of kanter till I was red in the face.....but he never developed defensively. All that footwork offensively and yet it never translate to defenisvley moving his feet into good position....he played in cement on defense.

----------


## Thomas Vu

I'm glad you like him.  Seeing him made me wish we kept Thabo with his pump fake two step brick. Heck I'd have settled for Tony Allen, and I laughed when he was on the court.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

Poor thabo Lol....he shot the 3 better when he want in OKC oddly enough.

----------


## Thomas Vu

> Poor thabo Lol....he shot the 3 better when he want in OKC oddly enough.


I think its cause ball movement was a bigger deal on the Hawks than in OKC.

----------


## Bellaboo

> I feel terrible for the fans who have to watch his feeble attempts and the owners for paying him as a world class talent throwing up that garbage. I think the time has passed and *he needs to start practicing the underhand technique of Rick Barry*.


He said he tried it this summer and the results were not good. I'd say he should try harder.

----------


## dankrutka

> I feel terrible for the fans who have to watch his feeble attempts and the owners for paying him as a world class talent throwing up that garbage. I think the time has passed and he needs to start practicing the underhand technique of Rick Barry.


It was recently reported that Roberson already tried it and didn't have success with it. I know we all think we have an answer to Roberson's free throw problems, but does everyone really think OKC and Roberson haven't been working on this endlessly? These are mental and skill problems, not a work ethic or lack of creativity problems. Some players worked tirelessly their entire careers to improve free throws and saw no results. In the case of some skills, hard work does not always lead to improvement.

----------


## dankrutka

> ^^^^^Lol 
> 
> I like Robertson I do. The guy is.....lets just call it ' challenged' on the offensive side of the ball, to say the least or be nice however you want to look at it. And its just my opinion but Avery Bradley is hands down better at guarding the 2 position. But that's why Andre is so valuable, the guy played as a big man at Colorado I believe. So he can grab boards and defend multiple positions.
> 
> But it doesn't matter what he does defensively when he handicaps the half court offensive sets. Its not hard to see it. Its clear as day. Guys just do not respect him and simply clog the lanes.
> 
> Look, I like Andre but.....Andrew wiggins? 10-20 for 27 points last night.
> 
> Like I said before. I trust coach Donovan to iron this out. Doubt there is a bigger THUNDER fan than me but I am also not blind.....he is a problem for us in OUr halfcourt offense....PERIOD! He sucks at free throws, he awkwardly shoots the ball before he jumps and the ball rolls off the side of his hand on the way there, he hairballs free throws....like, lmbo, the heck are we talking about here Lol.....he bet on his self and hit the free market then came right back to OKC. 
> ...


There's just no evidence to suggest that Avery Bradley is even in the vicinity of Roberson defensively. Roberson is an absolute elite defender - maybe top 5 in the entire league. Here's the comparison between Roberson and Bradley. The overwhelming evidence suggests that not only is Roberson in a completely different defensive league to Bradley, he's probably a more effective player overall.  

Here's the overall evidence:
- Roberson has twice the overall value (not defensively, overall!) of Bradley according to VORP (1.2 to 0.6)
- Roberson's win shares per 48 minutes (how many wins he contributes to overall) is 0.89 to 0.59
- Roberson has a higher overall box plus/minus at 0.0 to Bradley's -0.7
- Roberson even has a higher OFFENSIVE win share than Bradley at 3.6 to 2.3 and true shooting percentage .525 to .519 (Roberson shoots over 60% from the field to Bradley's 47%; BTW, I don't think Roberson is actually a better offensive player, but he can be effective in what he does as is evidence by his high field goal percentage)

Here's the defensive evidence:
- Roberson's defensive box plus/minus is 2.1 to Bradley's negative rating of -0.5 (that's a huge difference)
- Roberson's block percentage is 2.2 to Bradley's 0.6
- Roberson's defensive rebound percentage is 14 to Bradley's 9.5
The only stats that are in Bradley's favor are because he plays more minutes. You can argue that is important. But when Roberson is on the floor, he is clearly a better player and a dramatically better defensive player than Avery Bradley. 

I used their career state above, but their stats from last season show the same results (see here). 

The stats pretty dramatically show that Roberson is not only way better defensively, but just better period. I know Roberson is frustrating, but we can't just start making up that Roberson isn't _that_ good of a defender or player when he is. Season after season he has been in many of OKC's best lineups. Everyone is so focused on what Roberson can't do, they don't focus on what he does well. In general, most fans can't actually identify good defensive players anyway so they don't get credit.

----------


## Laramie

> I feel terrible for the fans who have to watch his feeble attempts and the owners for paying him as a world class talent throwing up that garbage. I think the time has passed and he needs to start practicing the underhand technique of Rick Barry.


Agree, he needs to try something _(under hand, over hand, fingerling)_, because he continues to get the same bad results.   Those _large lunch-grabbers_ of his doesn't allow him to get a good feel for the ball.   His odds are like tossing a quarter at the state fair lucky strike game--trying to center the quarter.

----------


## Roger S

I'd be happy if he could at least hit the rim with those free throws.... Those two airballs were tough to watch... At least use the backboard.

Watching those two airballs made me wonder if he has a vision/depth perception problem at that range among the other issues with his shot.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

The vision depth perception thing might be valid.

----------


## Jake

Maybe he just needs to get some glasses and he'll start shooting ~40% from 3.  :Wink:

----------


## Roger S

> Maybe he just needs to get some glasses and he'll start shooting ~40% from 3.


Maybe 39%... 40% is probably pushing it.

----------


## dankrutka

Okay, I'll bite. Maybe a teenage klutz becomes the star of his high-school basketball team when he magically acquires the abilities of his hero, NBA star Andre Roberson  -- but the switch leaves Roberson unable to shoot free throws

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 114 - Indiana Pacers 96*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400974811

Westbrook triple double:  REB 10, AST 16, PTS 28

----------


## OKC_on_mines

Think he averages another triple double this year?

----------


## dankrutka

Certainly possible. Rebounds will be the tough category.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

Yeah. I think the assists go up. How about my guy Steven Adams ? Every year he gets better. Might be the best center in the league!

----------


## Laramie

> Yeah. I think the assists go up. How about my guy Steven Adams ? Every year he gets better. Might be the best center in the league!


Definitely among the best centers in the NBA.  He'll get another crack at Utah's Rudy Gobert & Minnesota's Karl-Anthony Towns.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

Oh yea. And he is still pretty young. But he is so unselfish. One of my favorite THUNDER!

----------


## OkiePoke

Adams didn't have a good year last year. I think it had a lot to do with opponents would just crowd the lane. They can't do that this year with PG13 and HoodieMelo outside. 

Felton has been a huge improvement over backwards James. Good to see 2Pat get some points last night, along with Huestis and Ferguson.

----------


## Laramie

> I'd be happy if he could at least hit the rim with those free throws.... Those two airballs were tough to watch... At least use the backboard.
> 
> Watching those two airballs made me wonder if he has a vision/depth perception problem at that range among the other issues with his shot.


Heard it was Dre's exceptionally large hands...

----------


## dcsooner

Did a quick comparison:  

Former Thunder Players

Oladipo- 26.0 ppg
Kanter 14.3 ppg
McDermott 5.0 ppg
Smith, Ish  6,4 ppg
Jackson R  15.2 ppg
Lamb, J  15.8 ppg
Sabonis 11.2 ppg
Lavergne, J 6.0 ppg

Current Thunder players

Heustis 1.5 ppg
Ferguson .7 ppg
Grant  6.8 ppg
Hamilton, D 0.0 ppg
Singler 0.0ppg
Collison 0.0 ppg
Dozier 0.0 ppg
Felton 7.8 ppg
Melo 24.8 ppg
George 18.5 ppg

Our bench will be our achilles heel this year

----------


## AP

lmao

----------


## Bellaboo

Dozier hasn't even played a G League game ever, so yep he's a zero.

Singler and Collison more than likely won't see the court this year so yep they will be zero also.


So what I'm saying is they will have no impact to the season other than in practice.

----------


## dankrutka

> Did a quick comparison:  
> 
> Former Thunder Players
> 
> Oladipo- 26.0 ppg
> Kanter 14.3 ppg
> McDermott 5.0 ppg
> Smith, Ish  6,4 ppg
> Jackson R  15.2 ppg
> ...


This is a weird analysis that randomly pulls players from over several years who are in very different situations and uses only raw stats, which really aren't instructive. Scoring more points does not mean that you're better. It may just mean that you're on a bad team and thus taking more shots. 

More than anything though, the bench was the Achilles heel _last season_. Lol. 

The bench units will be much better this season for multiple reasons, including (a) an elite scorer will stagger minutes with bench units, (b) the upgrades at point guard (Semaj to Felton) and power forward (Sabonis to Patterson) will be significant, and (c) some young players will likely improve, namely Abrines. Once the playoffs arrive I expect OKC to have a 9 man rotation (Starters + Abrines, Patterson, Felton, Grant). Anything beyond that is bonus. But, yeah, in the regular season, Ferguson and Huestis will get a chance to prove themselves and it could be bumpy at times. But, this bench is far more ready for the playoffs than last year when three of the main contributors (Kanter, McBuckets, and Sabonis) were basically benched against the Rockets. None of the top 9 will be benched from this year's team.

----------


## Jake

I think Felton is going to prove to be a really solid pickup for this team. He didn't light it up or anything last night, but it's so nice to have a reliable 2nd point guard that can control the flow of the game somewhat.

----------


## sooner88

Carmelo hit it on the head last night when they asked about PG's off night. The main draw for him to OKC was they now have the ability for one of their stars to have an off night and still succeed. With 3 all-stars we can stagger our lineups where there won't be the giant offensive lull we have had in the past. Adams' is going to be a monster with the spacing our stars now command... can't wait for us to hit our stride.

----------


## dcsooner

> This is a weird analysis that randomly pulls players from over several years who are in very different situations and uses only raw stats, which really aren't instructive. Scoring more points does not mean that you're better. It may just mean that you're on a bad team and thus taking more shots. 
> 
> More than anything though, the bench was the Achilles heel _last season_. Lol. 
> 
> The bench units will be much better this season for multiple reasons, including (a) an elite scorer will stagger minutes with bench units, (b) the upgrades at point guard (Semaj to Felton) and power forward (Sabonis to Patterson) will be significant, and (c) some young players will likely improve, namely Abrines. Once the playoffs arrive I expect OKC to have a 9 man rotation (Starters + Abrines, Patterson, Felton, Grant). Anything beyond that is bonus. But, yeah, in the regular season, Ferguson and Huestis will get a chance to prove themselves and it could be bumpy at times. But, this bench is far more ready for the playoffs than last year when three of the main contributors (Kanter, McBuckets, and Sabonis) were basically benched against the Rockets. None of the top 9 will be benched from this year's team.


Did a quick Comparison not Analysis

----------


## bradh

Shocking, dcsooner finds something to fit his MO of always finding the negatives in anything related to OKC

We were all set to pick up tickets and see OKC play the wolves up here in MSP tomorrow night, but my allegiance to my hometown Astros trumps that so I'll be somewhere watching game 3

----------


## OKCRT

Roberson is still the weak link and now it seems he's forgot how to play defense. Dipo just ate him up. He really should not be starting on this team. He's a situational player off the bench IMO.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

Wait so roberson was guarding dipo when he dropped 30 on us? Sheesh.....

----------


## Thomas Vu

35, but that's besides the point.  Team defense is significantly more important than individual, and with Melo being on a contender we can only hope that the help defense the team brings is better than what it was.

----------


## dankrutka

> Did a quick Comparison not Analysis


Well pulling ex-OKC bench players from the last three years and comparing them to only OKC's current bench minus Patrick Patterson is likely to provide a pretty one-sided comparison. Also, context adds a lot too. 

If we're just comparing the benches from this season and last (which is still problematic since OKC's big three will play way more with the bench), here you go:
rookie Abrines < second-year Abrines
Domas Sabonis < Patrick Patterson
3rd year Jerami Grant < 4th year Jerami Grant
Semaj Christon < Raymond Felton
Kanter > Huestis (meaningful in regular season, not in playoffs as none of these guys might play)
McDermott = Ferguson (neither have shown much yet, but I'd definitely take Ferguson's upside)
Singler = Singler (this is the intersection of basketball nothingness and an abyss)

----------


## dankrutka

> Roberson is still the weak link and now it seems he's forgot how to play defense. Dipo just ate him up. He really should not be starting on this team. He's a situational player off the bench IMO.





> Wait so roberson was guarding dipo when he dropped 30 on us? Sheesh.....


This is the basketball equivalent of Inhofe saying a snowball means global warming is a myth. Roberson has not forgotten how to play basketball. The best defensive players in the league don't shut guys down night in and out. But great defensive players tip the scale in their teams favor over time. Roberson has looked fine defensively this season and is a major difference maker still.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

Listen I won't debate with you anymore.....the way you feel about Robertson is the way I feel about my guy Steven Adams. Every year he gets better in scoring and he has always been a good defender. With more space on the floor he will continue to dominate as the best center in the league.

----------


## dankrutka

> Listen I won't debate with you anymore.....the way you feel about Robertson is the way I feel about my guy Steven Adams. Every year he gets better in scoring and he has always been a good defender. With more space on the floor he will continue to dominate as the best center in the league.


I get frustrated like everyone else with Roberson's inability to shoot. And, there's been some suggestions, that maybe he had some kind of injection from which he may still be recovering, which may be why he hasn't looked great to start the season. But, my pet peeve, is that we as fans in general don't value parts of the game that are not obvious (e.g., defense, screen setting, off ball activity). Everyone loved Kanter because he scored, but hates Roberson because he can't. But Roberson helps the Thunder win games, especially meaningful ones, more than Kanter. I defend Roberson because hardly anyone else does even though he's a pretty decent player because of his defense. And, in the end, the numbers mostly back that up. If there's a good sample size of data that suggests that he does not help the Thunder win then I'll be calling for him to be benched too.  Anyway, I'm a bit of a contrarian by nature so when everyone is bashing Robes it makes me want to defend him. I enjoy the debate.

Oh, and we agree about Steven Adams. He looks great this season. Beyond his efficient scoring, he does a lot of little things to help this team win. He's been amazing. Probably OKC's second best player so far this season.

----------


## Laramie

Donovan has been consistent with having a Westbrook, George or Anthony in with the reserves while two of the big 3 rests.   Bench will be stronger than last season; also, impressed with the progress Felton, Abrines, Grant & Huestis have made since opening night.   Especially, Felton's knowledge for the game.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

> I get frustrated like everyone else with Roberson's inability to shoot. And, there's been some suggestions, that maybe he had some kind of injection from which he may still be recovering, which may be why he hasn't looked great to start the season. But, my pet peeve, is that we as fans in general don't value parts of the game that are not obvious (e.g., defense, screen setting, off ball activity). Everyone loved Kanter because he scored, but hates Roberson because he can't. But Roberson helps the Thunder win games, especially meaningful ones, more than Kanter. I defend Roberson because hardly anyone else does even though he's a pretty decent player because of his defense. And, in the end, the numbers mostly back that up. If there's a good sample size of data that suggests that he does not help the Thunder win then I'll be calling for him to be benched too.  Anyway, I'm a bit of a contrarian by nature so when everyone is bashing Robes it makes me want to defend him. I enjoy the debate.
> 
> Oh, and we agree about Steven Adams. He looks great this season. Beyond his efficient scoring, he does a lot of little things to help this team win. He's been amazing. Probably OKC's second best player so far this season.


And I agree with most of the things you post in the threads Dankrukta but I think you misunderstand me if you presume I dot know or value the defensive impact that Robertson brings. Kanter is a good example. I liked him a ton. But the same footwork he employed on offense wasnt transferable to defense. It doesn't make you anti-Kanter because you acknowledge that. I don't think Robertson is an elite defender guarding the 2 position. Elite defenders-kawhi Leonard, klay Thompson, Raymond green, Rudy gobert, etc- they don't give up 2 games of almost 30 points back to back very often.

So, although I love robersons grit and determination, and tenacity, and defensive prowess.....he isn't and elite defender. But to me, that's up for debate. What shouldn't be up for debate is playing a guy like roberson when he handicaps the half-court offense instead of a guy like huestis who can score and shoot and defend too.

----------


## sooner88

> And I agree with most of the things you post in the threads Dankrukta but I think you misunderstand me if you presume I dot know or value the defensive impact that Robertson brings. Kanter is a good example. I liked him a ton. But the same footwork he employed on offense wasnt transferable to defense. It doesn't make you anti-Kanter because you acknowledge that. I don't think Robertson is an elite defender guarding the 2 position. Elite defenders-kawhi Leonard, klay Thompson, Raymond green, Rudy gobert, etc- they don't give up 2 games of almost 30 points back to back very often.
> 
> So, although I love robersons grit and determination, and tenacity, and defensive prowess.....he isn't and elite defender. But to me, that's up for debate. What shouldn't be up for debate is playing a guy like roberson when he handicaps the half-court offense instead of a guy like huestis who can score and shoot and defend too.


He was 2nd team all-defense last year....

----------


## OKC_on_mines

Good point. ^^^

----------


## Urbanized

> ...But, my pet peeve, is that we as fans in general don't value parts of the game that are not obvious (e.g., defense, screen setting, off ball activity)...


This is precisely the reason I so doggedly defended Russ for so many years. Back when the Thunder first started there were few nationally-televised games, and a bunch of national media judged him based on a few clips each night that often included him clanking an ill-advised shot. They created this false narrative that he was "selfish," and it stuck. And they and most casual watchers failed to see that he had roughly zero other team scoring options for the first few years when KD was double and triple teamed (which very often) or having an off shooting night (which was also very often) or pouting and standing like a statue above the arc (which was all of the damned time). And once Harden emerged he was of course mostly on the floor when Russ was off of it. But from day one it was obvious to me that the amount of disruption he was causing would pay off if only his teammates improved, bought in, and rose to the occasion. Media and casual observers also conveniently forgot that somehow KD led the league in scoring three seasons while he was here.

Obviously Russ is a more mature and fully-developed player now and that helps, but his game is still largely the same and I'm super glad to see guys like Carmelo and PG appreciating the skill and leadership. Makes me incredibly optimistic, providing it continues. The point is that I agree that fans (and even media) get easily distracted by out-of-context stats or flashy parts of the game and miss other less-obvious elements a player brings.




> ...But Roberson helps the Thunder win games, especially meaningful ones, more than Kanter. I defend Roberson because hardly anyone else does even though he's a pretty decent player because of his defense...


And one of the things that is often not talked about when breaking down his stats is that he is generally going strait at the most elite players in the league, every night. As in, that is his assignment. So even comparing his defensive stats to even other players on his own team is pretty misleading. With the assignments he gets, simply having above average stats over the course of a season would be a massive achievement.

----------


## dankrutka

> And I agree with most of the things you post in the threads Dankrukta but I think you misunderstand me if you presume I dot know or value the defensive impact that Robertson brings. Kanter is a good example. I liked him a ton. But the same footwork he employed on offense wasnt transferable to defense. It doesn't make you anti-Kanter because you acknowledge that. I don't think Robertson is an elite defender guarding the 2 position. Elite defenders-kawhi Leonard, klay Thompson, Raymond green, Rudy gobert, etc- they don't give up 2 games of almost 30 points back to back very often.
> 
> So, although I love robersons grit and determination, and tenacity, and defensive prowess.....he isn't and elite defender. But to me, that's up for debate. What shouldn't be up for debate is playing a guy like roberson when he handicaps the half-court offense instead of a guy like huestis who can score and shoot and defend too.


This is my point: I am not sure your claims are true. Are you sure those players you mentioned don't give up 30 point games? How do you know? Great defensive players generally don't shut down NBA players from scoring. They just cause a few more misses here and there, deny a couple passes, cause hesitancy. But I'm pretty sure all defenders, including the ones you mentioned, give up huge games. You think Kawhi stops Durant from scoring 30 all the time? Or other players? Also, did you break down who was the primary defender on Oladipo when he scored? It's easy to blame it all on Roberson, but do you know how many points Roberson actually gave up? He only played 21 minutes so other defenders likely gave up a lot of it too. I am fine with disagreeing. Just like to see some evidence or stats on the claims. It's like the suggestion that Avery Bradley is a better defender, but I looked it up and pretty much every stat showed Roberson as being significantly better. When you look at Roberson's stats, they show an elite defender. What evidence contradicts that? Now, maybe he's regressed so much as to make his defense not worth it, that's an interesting debate.

----------


## dankrutka

> And one of the things that is often not talked about when breaking down his stats is that he is generally going strait at the most elite players in the league, every night. As in, that is his assignment. So even comparing his defensive stats to even other players on his own team is pretty misleading. With the assignments he gets, simply having above average stats over the course of a season would be a massive achievement.


There are some advanced stats that account for your competition level, which are useful.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

Dankrukta

Like Thomas.vu said a while back. I think I have made a poor attempt at expressing my thought. So instead of drafting extensive paragraphs to expound on my thoughts lets keep it simple..... We can debate whether or not he is an elite defender or simply solid or even good. Nonetheless, I'm suggesting that maybe his offensive challenges handicap OUr half-court offense so much that it not only cancels but isn't even worth him playing. A solid defender who can contribute 15 points a game from the shooting guard position and will demand the opponent guarding him to not sag in the paint might be a better option!

That's as simple as I can state it. 

By the way, my old statistics professor taught me that stats lie. 😏😏😏

----------


## Jake

Another tough loss. 

The team hasn't been able to put together a full performance yet in this young season. There are times where aspects of their games are great. A quarter of good offense/defense, Melo shooting well, PG shooting well, etc. But they haven't been able to piece it all together yet. 

It's gonna take some time, probably around Christmas or so, until they get rolling. I know the gnashing of teeth is coming, so I want to try and put some perspective out there. No need to panic, folks.

----------


## dankrutka

> Dankrukta
> 
> Like Thomas.vu said a while back. I think I have made a poor attempt at expressing my thought. So instead of drafting extensive paragraphs to expound on my thoughts lets keep it simple..... We can debate whether or not he is an elite defender or simply solid or even good. Nonetheless, I'm suggesting that maybe his offensive challenges handicap OUr half-court offense so much that it not only cancels but isn't even worth him playing. A solid defender who can contribute 15 points a game from the shooting guard position and will demand the opponent guarding him to not sag in the paint might be a better option!
> 
> That's as simple as I can state it. 
> 
> By the way, my old statistics professor taught me that stats lie. 


Yes, two things here: I don't agree there's an argument as to whether Roberson is an elite defender, but I do agree that his offensive challenges make for an argument of his overall value. So, we can agree on one of two.  :Wink:  And, I also agree, stats can show whatever someone wants, which is why interpretation is important. I tried to provide that. 

To all this discussion, Donovan sat Roberson for the first time in a long time. We'll see how it works out. I don't see who can get his minutes that will help the team more, but I'm not against experimenting. We will see. For the franchise, hopefully Robes bounces back because he just signed a new three year deal. 

Tough game in Minny. Thunder offense was great, defense was awful. It's a long season though. No need to panic. Personally, I think the key to this team is Melo stepping back a bit offensively and looking for more threes instead of twos, but I'm not sure I expect his game to change.

----------


## bradh

Yep, glad I skipped this game and went to watch game 3 of the WS at a bar

----------


## Thomas Vu

My memory must be fickle, I thought it was me and one other guy preferring Kanter over Roberson vs everybody else (in this thread).  Outside of this thread I could see it going the way Dan mentioned for the reasons he provided.  I since gave up on that position and tried to demonstrate that there are two sides to the court and they are literally on each side of the coin.  

It's not my intention to start another discussion about it, as it recently occurred to me that "fan" is short for "fanatic" and that most discussions involving a fanatic usually falls on deaf ears either way.

----------


## Jake

If you could merge Alex Abrines' offensive ability with Roberson's defensive ability, we'd be all set.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

^^^^I know right!

That NBA2k created player might be this years mvp lol

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 101 - Chicago Bulls 69*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400974830

Westbrook's 3rd Triple Double - Points 12, Rebounds 13, Assists 13

----------


## Urbanized

Paul George shot his way out of his mini-slump, Thunder was raining threes as a group - GSW style - during the first half, D was swarming and much-improved for most of the game, team as a whole picked up rebounding slack that had appeared post-Kanter departure - including Carmelo, notably, though Westbrook was a rebounding machine - and Melo notched his 6th game in a row above 20 points, the only player in Thunder history to start a season like that. Granted, the Bulls are awful, but really nice progress in this game. Oh, and Steven Adams: good at basketball. Thunder perimeter threats are allowing him FEAST on offense.

----------


## Laramie

These charters, my God; just thankful by the looks of the nose of that plane we didn't have some casualties. If they hit a bird, it must have been one of Godzilla's flying sea monsters.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

Defense looking real damn good. Steven Adams is a beast. Middleton just through the ball at Steven Adams lol; maybe I've had too many ultimate long island ice teas here at TGIF but I kind of wanted Steven to fold him up like a pretzel!

Just once to put the whole league (draymond green) on notice

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder  110      -  Milwaukee Bucks  91*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400974854 

Bucks struck by lightning.

----------


## Urbanized

Excellent job of pushing Giannis out of his comfort zone and getting him into early foul trouble. He still got 28, but was much less of a dominant factor than hes been in every other game this season.

Two post-game quotes stuck with me:




> When we play the grown-ups, we've got to be ready, and we weren't. They played the grown-ups tonight. - Bucks coach (and noted spousal abuser) Jason Kidd





> Russ, Russ pushes the tempo. Nobody can push him from the paint, and we're getting wide open looks. - Paul George


There is going to be a narrative emerging soon in the media that Russell Westbrook has made over his game. That hes no longer so selfish, or finally realizes he needs to involve his teammates to win. Dont believe it. He is the same Russell Westbrook he as always been. Obviously a little more developed and crafty, but essentially the same. The difference is that now he has MATURE All-Star teammates around him who appreciate the opportunities that HIS game brings to THEM. Russell hasnt changed; the experience level and mindset of his TEAM has.

----------


## HOT ROD

Russ is (and always has been) my favourite athlete and NBA player; but even I think Russ HAS changed in that he's more mature, he's more patient, and he seems to have developed (or developing) more basketball IQ to where he doesn't need to panic as much when the going is tough.

In years past (even last), he'd look up at the scoreboard and if OKC was losing - he'd take it upon himself to be Russ and expect the rest of the team to match or at least try (and when they wouldn't he'd have a significant tantrum which would cause him to lose bball focus and chunk up ill advised, heavily contested, miss shots). 

I see him this year, more patient - yes there's still the out-of-control dash to the bucket (and miss because he went too/so fast, no foul) Russ that we all know and love BUT he's managing the game AND TEAM much better and I think it is due to PG13 and Anthony not necessarily lending their talents but that the EXPECTATION of the team itself is much higher/better due to the other two. It's almost like if you visit NYC or Chicago, they could have an off-day and not be what you expect but if there's a major event happening then NYC and Chicago shine better than any City because; well that's what we expect from NYC and Chicago. OKC seems to be developing this team cohesion around Russ where its starting to work and it is due to the presence of George and Melo star power IMO that has raised the bar for the team.

With OKC now having a legitimate Big 3 and the #3 media spot (including being the definite media darling for at least this year), I can see players stepping up in ways that didn't happen last year. I can see players wanting to shine, because the level OKC must be on having Russ, Melo, and Paul G. And as others have noted, the biggest beneficiary besides us fans is Steven Adams - he's well on his way to being the dominant center in the league (again) this year ala 2015 playoffs; and if he keeps this up then OKC will be the only team in the NBA to have legitimate, solid big 4.

disclaimer - I know some may say; wait, Golden State has a big 4 too. But I disagree, because OKC has (or looks like will have) four players in unique positions having superstar status in Russ-Point Guard, Paul G-Small Forward, Anthony-Power Forward/Scorer, and Adams-Center. GSW doesn't have it that way, Curry at Point and Durant at Small Forward/Scorer are the only positions that are truly defined. What is Clay Thompson? He's great, budding superstar but he does best when one of the others sits, more like a 6th man since he cannibalizes Curry or (to a lesser extent) KD. Dreymond 'the nutcracker' Green a PF or a Center - he's an Allstar facilitator but a superstar at neither. 

Most would probably agree that GSW does best when it has 3 of their big 4 on the floor [Curry, Livingston, Durant, Iggy, Green come to mind]. Whereas, OKC is at its best with it's core starting lineup and that is because there is no cannibalization - as long as the team performs and the superstars be themself (just like Melo said) then OKC really has a big 4 that works and likely will be the team that unseats GSW as the nba's superteam (particularly if the bench continues to develop). ..

Kudos to Presti (and Bennett's funds) believing in Russ, letting him mature but still be his-self, and him with other star players (btw, I knew Melo would sign with OKC back in July shortly it was disclosed he 'might' include OKC in his trade list, I knew Houston would f-up and OKC would swoop in). Anyway, I sure hope it gels and OKC surprises the world with a chip and long term contract signatures from the 'new 2'. Good times!

----------


## dankrutka

To your point, I think the biggest change in Russ' game is that he trusts his new teammates more than his old teammates. Russ just did not trust Sabonis so he didn't pass it to him in certain spots. I think Russ' changes are less that he's a different player then that he's in a different situation. And, Steven Adams is a huge beneficiary of this new situation because other teams can't clog the lane with Melo or Paul George on the wings. They pull a lot of attention away from the paint that allows Adams to roam. 

I disagree on the Warriors analysis. Unfortunately, their pieces fit perfectly together, all of their big 4 are top 20 players in the league, and their best lineups include their big 4 playing together. I really like how OKC is coming together. Having said that, it's probably going to take a Warriors injury for any team to compete with them. They're still in a league of their own (don't let early season games fool you). But I would love for nothing more than to see OKC find a way to take down the Warriors... it'll certainly be an interesting season.

----------


## Bellaboo

After league review, Russell was awarded an assist that was missed against the Bucks. 

Add another triple double for the season.

----------


## Urbanized

> To your point, I think the biggest change in Russ' game is that he trusts his new teammates more than his old teammates. Russ just did not trust Sabonis so he didn't pass it to him in certain spots. I think Russ' changes are less that he's a different player then that he's in a different situation. And, Steven Adams is a huge beneficiary of this new situation because other teams can't clog the lane with Melo or Paul George on the wings. They pull a lot of attention away from the paint that allows Adams to roam. 
>  fool you)...


100% agree with this assessment. The maturation and patience that Hot Rod is talking about actually happened years ago. Again, Russ is pretty much EXACTLY the same player hes been for the past 4-5 seasons. The only thing that has changed is the combination of personnel around him.

----------


## Jake

Bad Loss. Blew an 18 point half-time lead.

----------


## Paseofreak

If you recall, terrible officiating started the Celt's recovery.

----------


## Laramie

> If you recall, terrible officiating started the Celt's recovery.


Agree,

Don't like to harp on the officials; however it was obvious that on many of Boston's fouls the officials swallowed their whistles along with the balls inside of them. 

Got to give it up to Horford, he was clutch down the stretch.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

We have GOT to get out of this funk.

----------


## dankrutka

I don't say this often, but the refs were ridiculous last night. Melo's ejection was absolutely absurd and this is right after the refs refused to even look at Russ getting hit in the face. 

I'm not worried too much. The Thunder are 0-4 in close games. OKC's point differential is the third best in the NBA, which is usually a better representation of a team than their record. Close games will start going OKC's way. They're still figuring things out.

----------


## Roger S

Russ needs to stop attending the Roberson School of Free Throw Shooting too.....

----------


## chuck5815

The Tuesday game in Sacramento should theoretically be an easy win. But we shall see.

----------


## Bellaboo

> Russ needs to stop attending the Roberson School of Free Throw Shooting too.....


There was a rule change this year which does not allow the player to walk outside the top of the free throw key is what he says is bothering him. Russ claims his entire life he has walked in and shot his free throw, then walks back out and comes in for the next one. The rule is intended to speed up the game but Russ needs to adjust.

----------


## AP

It seems like a fair excuse, as he is an 82% career FT shooter.

----------


## Roger S

I've also noticed he wasn't taking that deep calming breath before free throws like he used to. Which I think might be affecting his shots more than walking outside the circle.

Taking that deep breath from the stomach is a technique I use quite a bit in billiards and while it may be as much psychological as it is calming. It's a technique that works very well for me.

----------


## Urbanized

Free throws are so much more about psychology than most of the rest of the game. Sure, you can have an off night from outside or people can get into your head during a game or whatever, but most of the rest of the game is (or should be) played with a certain amount of mindlessness. Meaning they are automatic with as much preparation and experience as these guys have. Free throws, on the other hand, are so deliberate that self-doubt has much more room to take you out of muscle memory. That's why routine is so important; it helps keep the mind clear.

----------


## Urbanized

> I don't say this often, but the refs were ridiculous last night. Melo's ejection was absolutely absurd and this is right after the refs refused to even look at Russ getting hit in the face. 
> 
> I'm not worried too much. The Thunder are 0-4 in close games. OKC's point differential is the third best in the NBA, which is usually a better representation of a team than their record. Close games will start going OKC's way. They're still figuring things out.


Agreed on all counts.

----------


## Jake

This team's offense is broken. What a horrible performance.

----------


## Thomas Vu

The only thing I think I can say about this game is you gotta hand it to the Kings bench.  They did better than their starters.

----------


## dankrutka

Embarrassing performance. We'll see how the team responds. Will Russ be stubborn when things are going poorly or can he stabilize the offense? Is Russ going to run back on defense after a mistake? Will Melo realize that he's got to move the ball when a shot isn't initially there instead of pounding the rock for an iso, contested jumper? How will the team get PG integrated? Will the team completely abandon Steven Adams on offense when he was dominating? The answer to all these questions tonight was no. Again, it's still early, but it's going to take some humility from the Russ and Melo especially to figure this thing out.

----------


## Thomas Vu

Funny thing is that I don't think Russ was bad.  +2 overall, 20/12/6, and maintained composure after that ridiculous flagrant 1.  Melo was bad, the statistics show that PG shouldn't be taking game winners, and the Kings got to their average in points scored.  

Funny enough, I thought the Kings offense looked a lot better than ours.  Extra passes were made, and they were getting open shots.  The shots just weren't going in for them resulting in Joerger swapping out all of the starters 10 minutes in.

Looking at the box score again, bench scoring was bad too.  Outside of Grant, the combined scoring was 10.

----------


## dankrutka

Yeah, it's amazing Russ was a +2, but I think it's just an anomaly. He had so many really bad turnovers in the first half, but what really disappointed me is seeing him not even try to get back on defense a couple times when the team was struggling. He's just got to be a better leader and set the tone.

But, yeah, the Kings played like a team and the Thunder didn't. Off nights happen, but I was more concerned about the lack of execution in general and lack of effort in spots.

----------


## Laramie

You'll see more teams go after the franchises stacked with super stars like the Warriors, Cavaliers, Celtics, Rockets, Spurs, Thunder & Timberwolves.  Face it, they can afford to gamble because they don't have anything to lose.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

Dude. Were down 96-92 to the nuggets. What the piss trainee?! Like, what is the problem ? We gotta get out of this slump

----------


## Jake

The offense is garbage. The Nuggets are one of the worst defensive teams in the league and they may not even get to 100.

----------


## Sirsteve

> The offense is garbage. The Nuggets are one of the worst defensive teams in the league and they may not even get to 100.


We are a bunch of All-stars but no team. This could have the makings for a very long and disappointing season.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

^^^^^say it ain't so

**sigh**

----------


## Thomas Vu

Bench scoring, not great again.  On the plus side, it was somebody else who scored the majority this time.

----------


## dcsooner

We traded several very promising players and are left with no reliable 2d unit and no team identity or cohesion. But it's only 10 games.

----------


## Jake

The team always seems to start out well, but completely forgets how to play the longer the game goes on. Is that on the coach? Players? Both?

----------


## Easy180

Well on the bright side this is making George’s decision to stay or go much easier

----------


## Roger S

I decided before the season I would give them until the All Star break to start complaining.... I'm sticking too that plan..... Well that and Jayhawk basketball starts tonight... So I won't be watching as much pro ball until April.  :Wink:

----------


## Anonymous.

Our crunchtime offense is really bad. Billy and Russell are still figuring out how to get a flow going. There was one possession either late third or early fourth where we ran an actual play that had the ball passed like 6 times before getting to an open Melo who knocked down the three.

We need more plays. We are for sure stuck in a "you, then you, then me" type of ISO offense.

Andre needs to cut more, he will randomly do that sometimes and we are deadly, then he will just camp on the 3 line and of course not even be guarded.

----------


## chuck5815

> I decided before the season I would give them until the All Star break to start complaining.... I'm sticking too that plan..... Well that and Jayhawk basketball starts tonight... So I won't be watching as much pro ball until April.


i'm a bit worried about KU's ability to penetrate on offense. Malik Newman looks clumsy as hell when he drives, and Graham has always been more of a spot up guy.  I'm not saying the offense will be bad, just that it seems like the team will miss Jackson's and Mason's ability to create off the dribble.

----------


## Thomas Vu

> Andre needs to cut more, he will randomly do that sometimes and we are deadly, then he will just camp on the 3 line and of course not even be guarded.


I noticed the random movement as well and it paid off a lot more than the camping in the corner.  Having said that Denver seemed to dedicate a person to him more than other teams have so far.

----------


## Roger S

> i'm a bit worried about KU's ability to penetrate on offense. Malik Newman looks clumsy as hell when he drives, and Graham has always been more of a spot up guy.  I'm not saying the offense will be bad, just that it seems like the team will miss Jackson's and Mason's ability to create off the dribble.


I'm more worried about the defense this year than the offense and our lack of depth in the front court.... No way Fort Hays should have hung with us as long as they did, especially without a player taller than 6'-7", but I think Vick's going to have a breakout year and he can play the 4 like Jackson did.

Will get a good look at what the D can do next Friday against SDSU because they have a kid that can flat out score..... I'll actually be at that game.... And then the next day I get to suffer through a beating with my OU friend at the football game but we're going to have fun making a weekend of it.

----------


## Anonymous.

OKC and Russ are getting murdered in the (social) media today. Melo even taking some heat.

We badly need a win tonight against the Clippers to just boost team morale. I feel bad for Russ, but he is in his own head right now. He needs to get back to dancing and having a good time. I think he is trying too hard to get the other guys involved and it is creating a weird funk. He needs to just flow and find the open shooters regardless of who they are. The possessions when he dribbles top of the key and passes to a guarded Melo @ 10 seconds to shoot is the KD iso play we are all used to seeing. But Melo obviously isn't KD.

OKC need more movement off ball. The current schemes are way too easy to guard.

----------


## Roger S

> OKC need more movement off ball. The current schemes are way too easy to guard.


That's unfortunately been the problem for years.... Probably my most frustrating Thunder issue is watching another team go down and run offense and then watch us come back up the court and jack up a contested shot only making one pass or less at best.... Was really hoping the problem would go away when Donovan was hired but starting to think it's not just a coaching problem...... Maybe Presti can really pull off a huge one and get Pop to come up here and teach this team to run an offense..... Well I can dream at least.

----------


## OKC_on_mines

Defense is suffocating tonight!

----------


## OKC_on_mines

Russ has to do better with finishing at the basket!

----------


## Jake

Another game with a blown lead that led to a loss. The offense simply implodes after awhile almost every game. It's still early, but it's something that definitely needs to be fixed.

Either the players ignore Donovan's offensive gameplan or he doesn't have one. Either answer isn't good.

----------


## Laramie

Free throws are our Achilles heel:

Thunder 14-21 = 66.7%
Spurs 22-29 = 75.9%
Box score: http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400974974

----------


## sooner88

If this keeps up to All-Star Break, there's a solid chance Billy is gone. He has not shown any ability to coach a talented team of individuals in clutch situations and our ownership knows it's now or never. Knowing that our ownership has paid above and beyond what they could / should have to put us in the position that we are in now, I wouldn't be surprised if our next aggressive move is replacing Donovan. It has been a relatively short time, but we are in do or die scenario right now. 

My friends and I have discussed this in depth (and while obviously not experts), we don't foresee what other move Presti has in his pocket for this year. 4 out of 5 starters are not moveable, and this year determines if PG / Melo stays going forward. We have recently shown some uncharacteristically aggressiveness on the free agent / trade side this summer for the purpose of locking Russ down and I envision us continuing that aggressive approach throughout this season to ensure we resign at least PG or Melo. We have the talent there, I just don't think we have the leadership (whether it's Billy / RW / PG / Melo). Someone will step up soon or there will be a move in hopes to rectify that.

----------


## Thomas Vu

I'd insist that defending the corners/wings was an issue too.

----------


## Anonymous.

Holy crap another game where we torch them and get ahead by 20+. Lose the lead by the end of the third, then play catchup to only fall short by less than 10 at the end.

This has been like basically every single loss this season.


Am I crazy to say that Donovan's job could be on the line by AllStar break?

----------


## dankrutka

Here's the thing no one wants to talk about**: Russell has been really bad this season. He's shooting terribly and just straight up not trying on defense. Andrew Schlecht of Down to Dunk had a series of tweets today detailing how few shots Russ has contested this season and it's pretty stunning. While there are other reasons (e.g., Abrines is giving nothing, Patterson started slow, late game isos), Russ better figure it out because he's the primary reason this team isn't reaching its potential right now.

----------


## Easy180

With the state of this team I dont think i can watch tomorrow night. Just dont think I can stomach KD and Currys mouthpiece in a Warriors blow out right now. Risking missing a great win for the Thunder but its a train wreck out there.

----------


## chuck5815

> With the state of this team I dont think i can watch tomorrow night. Just dont think I can stomach KD and Currys mouthpiece in a Warriors blow out right now. Risking missing a great win for the Thunder but its a train wreck out there.


i don't see us having much of a chance tomorrow. the offense is just a complete disaster. it's way too obvious where all of our shots are coming from and who is going to shoot them. Adams goes 7 of 9 from the field last night. He obviously needs more touches, but instead we would prefer for our Big Three to shoot 40% on almost 60 attempts. That's insane.

----------


## Jersey Boss

Andre Robertson, still shooting less than 40% from the foul line and 23% from 3 point. I don't want to hear how hard he is trying to correct his stats. I don't want to hear how he tried to shoot underhanded. I want to see some improvement, irrespective of his stellar defense.

----------


## Urbanized

I'm holding out hope that this is still part chemistry-seeking and part Donovan experimentation; though I don't see the line-up tinkering I saw in '15-'16. Not sure if I am the only one who remembers at this point, but during Donovan's first season the vibe seemed to be off and it seemed like the Thunder were going nowhere until playoff time, when it became evident that the entire season Donovan had been experimenting with line-ups until he was able to dial-in exactly what he wanted come post-season. This of course was the season when they took GSW to 3-1 before KD threw the series (I know, I know...that part is just how I prefer to remember it) and beat it out of town like the coward that he is.

Seriously, Donovan looked like a bit of a chump all season, and a genius by the WCSF.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> If this keeps up to All-Star Break, there's a solid chance Billy is gone. He has not shown any ability to coach a talented team of individuals in clutch situations and our ownership knows it's now or never. Knowing that our ownership has paid above and beyond what they could / should have to put us in the position that we are in now, I wouldn't be surprised if our next aggressive move is replacing Donovan. It has been a relatively short time, but we are in do or die scenario right now. 
> 
> My friends and I have discussed this in depth (and while obviously not experts), we don't foresee what other move Presti has in his pocket for this year. 4 out of 5 starters are not moveable, and this year determines if PG / Melo stays going forward. We have recently shown some uncharacteristically aggressiveness on the free agent / trade side this summer for the purpose of locking Russ down and I envision us continuing that aggressive approach throughout this season *to ensure we resign at least PG or Melo*. We have the talent there, I just don't think we have the leadership (whether it's Billy / RW / PG / Melo). Someone will step up soon or there will be a move in hopes to rectify that.


Melo will be on a player option year. No worry about losing him as who would want a guy that old for that much money. For better or worse, he will be here. PG is a different story and there are to many variables in play to make even a guess at what he will do.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> I'm holding out hope that this is still part chemistry-seeking and part Donovan experimentation; though I don't see the line-up tinkering I saw in '15-'16. Not sure if I am the only one who remembers at this point, but during Donovan's first season the vibe seemed to be off and it seemed like the Thunder were going nowhere until playoff time, when it became evident that the entire season Donovan had been experimenting with line-ups until he was able to dial-in exactly what he wanted come post-season. This of course was the season when they took GSW to 3-1 before KD threw the series (I know, I know...that part is just how I prefer to remember it) and beat it out of town like the coward that he is.
> Seriously, Donovan looked like a bit of a chump all season, and a genius by the WCSF.


Do you think the players listen to Donovan or is Donavan not coaching?

----------


## Laramie

> Do you think the players listen to Donovan or is Donavan not coaching?


Donovan does a great job as an analyst as he critiques his own team;  at some point if this team doesn't turn around--Billy could join Mark Jackson & Jeff Van Gundy on ESPN NBA with the blessings of many Thunder fans.  The blame game is right around the corner--slowly creeping up on this team.

----------


## Paseofreak

Are about 10% of the people authoritatively posting on this thread ever going to learn that their whipping boy's name is Roberson... Without a "T"?

----------


## Anonymous.

What a great night to start our W streak!

Just kidding, this will be a bloodbath, wonder if KD will shoot 80% again? Warriors have already planted the 'sprained ankle' narrative for him.

What is everyone drinking tonight?

----------


## Thomas Vu

Nola game was something else.  Get rid of one of their best players and still come out with the L?

----------


## Jake

The team hasn't played well as a whole, but Westbrook has easily been the worst of the OK3. There have been times where I legitimately wanted Felton to end the game at point guard.

I'm not a big Donovan fan myself, but he's not the one making Westbrook shoot sub-40% from the field.

----------


## Urbanized

> Do you think the players listen to Donovan or is Donavan not coaching?


I think the players DO listen to Donovan, AND I think he IS coaching. This article from Sam Amick describes pretty much exactly what I think/hope is happening here, with direct quotes from PG13, Melo AND Donovan: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...les/886788001/




> If only it were as simple as that night at Billy Donovan’s house.
> 
> Carmelo Anthony was the new guy in town, having been traded from the New York Knicks to the Oklahoma City Thunder just days before. So Donovan, the Thunder coach who overhauled his playbook after the late-June Paul George trade and was more than happy to do it again when they landed Anthony just two days before the start of training camp in late September, decided it was time to discuss it all over dinner.
> 
> The ingredients of the Italian dish came together beautifully, with Billy’s wife, Christine, playing the culinary role of Russell Westbrook as she ran point. The conversation flowed with Anthony, just as it had when George accepted the same invite before him. It was a win-win-win in every way.
> 
> But basketball isn’t played at the dining room table. And with a month of the regular season already behind them, and with George’s free agency future looming this summer as they attempt to become the NBA’s latest Super Team, Oklahoma City (7-9) has a bad taste in its mouth heading into Wednesday’s showdown against the defending champion Golden State Warriors.
> 
> Not only are the Thunder struggling to mesh early on, but this team full of would-be closers can’t seem to figure out how to close. They have blown leads of 10 points or more in six of their nine losses, including a lead of 23 against the San Antonio Spurs on Friday and 19 against the New Orleans Pelicans on Monday. Yet even through this early season in which they can’t seem to find the right recipe, and even with the spoonfuls of skepticism that are coming their way, this much remains true about this group that has so much potential: They’re taking the long view.
> ...

----------


## Urbanized

I think - and this is no offense to anyone here because I am guilty of it myself - the casual fan has no idea how complex the playbook is at this level. Basketbally LOOKS like a very improvisational game (and it often is), but to excel at the NBA level requires TONS of strategy, nuance, timing, and yes, set PLAYS, sometimes which emerge in the flow of the game as opposed to coming out of time-outs. If that timing is even a little bit off, those plays don't work. I think one of the reasons the Thunder has been more consistent defensively than offensively right now is because playbook knowledge and timing is still not fully there and line-ups are still experimental at times, while defense is often a result of individual athletic effort and hustle. The offensive cohesion will come, I still believe.

----------


## dankrutka

> I think - and this is no offense to anyone here because I am guilty of it myself - the casual fan has no idea how complex the playbook is at this level. Basketbally LOOKS like a very improvisational game (and it often is), but to excel at the NBA level requires TONS of strategy, nuance, timing, and yes, set PLAYS, sometimes which emerge in the flow of the game as opposed to coming out of time-outs. If that timing is even a little bit off, those plays don't work. I think one of the reasons the Thunder has been more consistent defensively than offensively right now is because playbook knowledge and timing is still not fully there and line-ups are still experimental at times, while defense is often a result of individual athletic effort and hustle. The offensive cohesion will come, I still believe.


I agree and often contest that the Thunder "never ran an offense" under Brooks or Donovan "doesn't coach" crowd... but it is frustrating to see a coach like Brad Stevens take an almost entirely new team, after losing their best player to injury in game one, and run such a cohesive offense... and great sets out of timeouts. 

OKC will be judged more by where they are at the end of the season, but there's reason to be concerned about Russ' play. You'd think the game would get easier with other stars, but he's playing way, way worse. But, again, the worst sign of all is that Russ is playing such lazy defense. He's been doing it for years, but it's been even worse this year. It's disappointing.

----------


## chuck5815

Well, that was one heck of a performance. And it was entertaining as all get out. 

Looks like the team needs less deference and more “Why not?” from Russ.

----------


## Paseofreak

That was incredibly fun to watch!

----------


## d-usa

I hope that means this mental monkey is off our back.

----------


## Anonymous.

Man this is wet dream material for OKC.

Hopefully this kickstarts the season. Russ was last year's Russ.

----------


## G.Walker

If they can beat the Warriors , they can beat anybody. I know this game is based on match ups, but in reality we need to beat the teams we are supposed to beat. Losing close games to below .500 teams will come back to haunt us in seeding during the playoffs.

----------


## G.Walker

I mean I know 4 games we should of legitimately won:

1. The home loss to MIN at the buzzer.
2. The away loss to MIN by 3.
3. The 4 point loss away at POR.
4. The 3 point loss away at SA.

We should be 12-5 right now.

----------


## dcsooner

> I think the players DO listen to Donovan, AND I think he IS coaching. This article from Sam Amick describes pretty much exactly what I think/hope is happening here, with direct quotes from PG13, Melo AND Donovan: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...les/886788001/


Wow, All of these guys appear to be in this to be the best they can together, that is very encouraging.

----------


## Urbanized

> I agree and often contest that the Thunder "never ran an offense" under Brooks or Donovan "doesn't coach" crowd... but it is frustrating to see a coach like Brad Stevens take an almost entirely new team, after losing their best player to injury in game one, and run such a cohesive offense... and great sets out of timeouts. 
> 
> OKC will be judged more by where they are at the end of the season, but there's reason to be concerned about Russ' play. You'd think the game would get easier with other stars, but he's playing way, way worse. But, again, the worst sign of all is that Russ is playing such lazy defense. He's been doing it for years, but it's been even worse this year. It's disappointing.


The difference between the OKC situation and Boston probably has to do with the various offenses’ key players came from; that is, the Thunder’s big 3 all came from iso-heavy situations where they were featured players and are now working to mesh into an offense that features at least somewhat more ball movement.

They also have struggled a bit in that they are perhaps showing TOO much deference to teammates, trying to share the ball, get in that extra pass, etc.. Especially Russ. To me that is actually encouraging, as it means they’re all very much buying into the team concept, and eventually will find balance. Last night was the perfect example of the offensive balance they can achieve, with each of the big 3 alternating between ball sharing and being on the ball as the situation dictated.

If they can consistently trot out what they brought last night - in execution if not always in intensity, which would be impossible to maintain at that level - they can (obviously) beat anyone in the league.

----------


## Urbanized

Just one more thing: before last night’s game I was seeing TONS of comments on social media and elsewhere suggesting Scott Brooks was a better coach than Donovan. I vehemently disagree, though I love Brooksie and he will always hold a special place for me as a Thunder fan. Like I said in my previous post, I think Donovan is a mad scientist during the season, experimenting, tinkering, building and analyzing potential lineups with a long view for the playoffs. What we are (hopefully) witnessing is the painful, ugly “butchering of the steer” in advance of what will hopefully be a dinner of steak.

One of the reasons Brooks is gone was because of his reluctance to embrace analytics, which is pretty much the opposite of the way Sam Presti builds a team (thanks BoulderSooner for that revelation a couple of years back). I know they have to start compiling wins, but don’t expect every game to start looking like that game last night. Donovan will likely continue to tinker the rest of the season, and I’d look for this team to MOST consistently hit its stride come playoff time, which is the only thing that matters, frankly.

----------


## Thomas Vu

> I agree and often contest that the Thunder "never ran an offense" under Brooks or Donovan "doesn't coach" crowd... but it is frustrating to see a coach like Brad Stevens take an almost entirely new team, after losing their best player to injury in game one, and run such a cohesive offense... and great sets out of timeouts.


I've been chatting about this among friends recently.  A point that didn't occur to me until the conversation happened is that it's possible that more complex sets could be ran, and they may not be by design.  Donovan could be trying to accommodate the players and come up with sets where everybody fits in more or less.

Marcus Smart--as of at least a couple of weeks ago--was considered one of the worst shooters given the amount of playtime.  Whether Brad Stevens doesn't care or he has Marcus doing something else is undetermined.  
We know that Roberson is more effective when slashing to the basket, than when he's sitting out on the corners.  More often than not though he's an offensive liability which limits how complex the offense could be because not everyone can either
A. Make a play
B. Get a desirable shot

----------


## Jake

Welp.

The Golden State game was fun at least.

----------


## dankrutka

OKC is now 0-9 in close games, which is frustrating but also means they’re much better than their record. A lot of shots didn’t fall tonight. Need more from Abrines and Patterson on a regular basis. But, in the end, the big 3 shot poorly.

----------


## G.Walker

See, these are the losses I am talking about. There is no way they should of lost this game...smh Westbrook missed 19 shots & Melo missed 15, that is 34 between both of them...too many.

----------


## Easy180

Another unnecessary 3 point shot to try to win when you are only down by 1. Plenty of time to get closer.

----------


## Jake

The Thunder (and by 'Thunder', I mostly mean Westbrook) does this thing where they just inexplicably leave the other team wide open for three multiple times in a game. And it's never like the oposing team's Roberson-type player, it's always like the one player you _cannot_ leave wide open.

----------


## Sirsteve

Well that was embarrassing! Like i said before this is a bunch of all-stars but no team. It boggles the mind how they can pretty much have their way with Golden state and then lay an egg against a 4-15 team. I know the season is still relatively early but how long is it going to take for them to figure this mess out. If something doesn't happen soon they will drop even further behind the west, frustration will set in and then the wheels could really come off.

----------


## d-usa

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...s-are-fixable/

----------


## chuck5815

> https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...s-are-fixable/


it's interesting that the defense gets so much worse as the game goes on. you'd think the "clutch time" defensive numbers would look a lot like the numbers at the beginning of the game since we're likely playing starters in both situations.

----------


## Anonymous.

Billy Donovan right now

----------


## AP

https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/934820296153997312

https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/934842942765838342

----------


## Anonymous.

This team has only won 2 road games... Against the Bulls and Bucks. If we lose to [the tanking] Orlando Magic on Wednesday then we will have gone the entire month of November without a W on the road. Including losses to both the Kings and Mavs, who are tanking for lottery.

----------


## Urbanized

> https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/934820296153997312
> 
> https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/934842942765838342


Pretty fascinating.

----------


## dankrutka

> https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/934820296153997312


The big takeaway here is that Melo hurts the team more than helps it. He's the worst defender by this metric and a bad offensive player. Offensively, this isn't surprising since he insists on taking long, contested twos - the least efficient shot in basketball. I do think Melo could be a valuable player for this team if he would focus on being a spot up three point shooter, but rarely do players like him change their game all of a sudden. He's probably going to continue dragging this team down all season even if his game might translate slightly better in the postseason.

----------


## Jake

I don't know who the coach of the team is going to be by the end of this season, but I would bet my left arm it's not going to be Billy Donovan.

----------


## Anonymous.

^^ Been saying it since like 7 losses ago.

He may not be the reason we are this terrible, but he will be a fall guy.

OKC officially loses every road game in the month of November.

EDIT: Just realized the DNP for Abrines, WTF coach.

----------


## Jake

These losses go beyond the, "but the Miami Heat were 8-10 when they first started" arguments.

 The Thunder are simply a very, very bad team right now. It's honestly incredible.

----------


## dankrutka

Sensed some tension between Russ and PG tonight. Not great effort and a lot of stubbornness. I normally wouldn't be worried this early in the season, but the body language and issues were really, really bad. Either this will light a fire under the team or it might take drastic measures like firing Donovan to wake this team up. I get the sense the big 3 are just ignoring Donovan's advice and doing what they want, which is take a lot of long twos. Fred Katz tweeted that the Thunder 7 of 41 from the midrange in the last two games. It's not even a good shot if you hit it 40% of the time much less 17%. Good lord that's bad.

----------


## sbs

Everyone will be calling for Billy's head but if you watched the post-game interviews the problem is very clear. They players are not practicing what Billy is preaching. He preaches ball movement and not taking contested shots, yet the players don't apply that to the game. They take those dreadful long 2's and other terrible shots when they are clearly covered up. Sure Billy's lineups are questionable at times but the glaring issue is ball movement.

----------


## Anonymous.

> Everyone will be calling for Billy's head but if you watched the post-game interviews the problem is very clear. They players are not practicing what Billy is preaching. He preaches ball movement and not taking contested shots, yet the players don't apply that to the game. They take those dreadful long 2's and other terrible shots when they are clearly covered up. Sure Billy's lineups are questionable at times but the glaring issue is ball movement.


I understand what your post is saying. But I want to point out that players not listening to the coach is a telling sign that you don't have the right person coaching them.

Russell needs to shoot lights out on Friday to light a fire under the team. What he did in the 4th with all those threes was the Russell from last year. Just get us the W, brodie.

----------


## kswright29

The off season was a hell of a lot more fun than the season has been so far. As much as I hate to say it, I'm becoming a little disinterested in the whole thing.

----------


## Jersey Boss

Right now this team stinks. Westbrook was 4-13 fg from two point territory.  Antonio Daniels who had over a decade in the league blistered them in the post game.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news...k1fybkslxeutbg

----------


## Thomas Vu

Sucks. Russ was unusually efficient from 3, and Roberson pitched in too.  Can't have your bench score 7.

----------


## G.Walker

There is no reason for this team to have this much talent & lose. I mean, they are losing to teams they should easily beat, this is crazy. At this point, its nothing but bad coaching. I am wondering how much patience Presti is going to have with Donovan???

----------


## chuck5815

If you’re Presti, who would you get to replace him?

----------


## Jake

I don't think Donovan _should_ be fired, although I do think he'll be first to go if things don't turn around. There are a lot of reasons why this team is bad. 

Donovan isn't an amazing coach or anything, but from the sounds of the last postgame, it seems like the players just aren't really listening to what he's telling the team. You can say it's his job to get the team to buy-in, which is true, but it's also on the players to, you know, actually play well and play efficient basketball. They aren't doing that right now.

----------


## Anonymous.

> Right now this team stinks. Westbrook was 4-13 fg from two point territory.  Antonio Daniels who had over a decade in the league blistered them in the post game.
> http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news...k1fybkslxeutbg


Here is the clip of this rant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNpPCy8Pt9E

Wow, someone give this man's phone number to Presti.

----------


## dankrutka

> If you’re Presti, who would you get to replace him?


That's always the question that has to accompany talk of firing a coach. Could you get someone who could come in and immediately turn things around? Having said that, Memphis just fired a pretty good coach in David Fizdale.  :Wink:

----------


## Thomas Vu

I'm neither here nor there on firing, but here are a few coaches that are available

Fizzdale
MVG
Mark Jackson
David Blatt?

----------


## dankrutka

Can we go ahead and rule out Mark Jackson? Lol. He was such a bad coach for the Warriors. Their growth after he was fired was almost unprecedented.

----------


## Jake

> Can we go ahead and rule out Mark Jackson? Lol. He was such a bad coach for the Warriors. Their growth after he was fired was almost unprecedented.


Agreed. Mark Jackson held the Warriors back tremendously.

----------


## Jersey Boss

Coach Donovan last night in the post was discussing the team needs to move the ball around a lot more on offense and yet I just did not see it. Coach is apparently being ignored,  so in my opinion it is on the players. The team seems to have a swagger about them that is totally unearned at this point. Additionally the Thunder bench  is worthless outside of Grant.  Now I also know it is easier to fire the coach than the players but it is also just as easy to consider a new GM.  If a new coach is what the team decides, Jeff Van Gundy is out there.

----------


## StuckInTheCapitol825

What's with the Mark Jackson hate?

----------


## Thomas Vu

> Jeff Van Gundy is out there.


Ah.  Definitely meant JVG, not M haha

As for the the Mark Jackson hate, *shrug*.  I don't think anybody remembers the Warriors before him, nor would I expect anybody to.

2009: Curry gets drafted
2009-10 season : 13th in the West
Coach: Don Nelson

2010-11 season : 12th in the West
2011: Klay gets drafted
Coach : Keith Smart

2012: Draymond gets drafted
2011-12 season : 13th in the West
2012-13 season : 6th in the West, WCF semi finals
2013-14 season : 6th in the West, 1 and done in game 7 vs Clippers
Coach : Mark Jackson

and we know the rest with Kerr.

Questionable practices aside for Jackson (never trusting any of his assistants, making Ezeli cry, etc), he's often credited for their defense.

----------


## Roger S

No need to fire or trade anyone.... Easy answer to the problem.... Melo needs to be coming off the bench. He would be more effective with the second squad and Patterson or Grant would work better with the other starters.

----------


## dankrutka

The Warriors were bad before Mark Jackson because he had terrible or really young players. By the time Jackson took over, they had really good players and those players immediately were far more successful the second Kerr took over. And, most of the changes were being called for by pretty much everyone. He was super stubborn ioffensively. I like him as an analyst, but he just is a really poor Xs and Os guy as he completely misused his team's talent and stubbornly resisted the changing game. In other words, Mark Jackson is basically another Scott Brooks at best. 

If OKC went a different direction I'd take Jeff Van Gundy first and Fizdale second.

----------


## dankrutka

> No need to fire or trade anyone.... Easy answer to the problem.... Melo needs to be coming off the bench. He would be more effective with the second squad and Patterson or Grant would work better with the other starters.


In my opinion, the problem is with _how_ the big 3 are playing, not _who_ they're playing with. Melo has already been playing a lot of minutes with bench lineups and it hasn't resulted in a lot of success.

----------


## Roger S

> In my opinion, the problem is with _how_ the big 3 are playing, not _who_ they're playing with. Melo has already been playing a lot of minutes with bench lineups and it hasn't resulted in a lot of success.


Changing the lineup changes how they play..... Patterson or Grant in the starting lineup would improve spacing and slightly improve the first squads defensive capability.

Moving Melo to the second squad lets him take advantage of getting iso on players way below his caliber on a more regular basis.

----------


## StuckInTheCapitol825

I'll agree that Jackson wasn't as smart offensively as Kerr is, and for that reason alone, the change had to be made. 

But the Warriors kept getting better on defense with Jackson. 
Something that the opposite could be said of Scott Brooks (remember all those ISOs! that are still around).

----------


## dankrutka

> Changing the lineup changes how they play..... Patterson or Grant in the starting lineup would improve spacing and slightly improve the first squads defensive capability.
> 
> Moving Melo to the second squad lets him take advantage of getting iso on players way below his caliber on a more regular basis.


First, Melo provides far better spacing than Patterson or Grant, right? Players respect Melo's shot, but they completely ignore Grant and only kind of care about Patterson. Second, that's actually been a problem for Melo, PG, and Russ is that they keep thinking they have to take advantage, but they do so my isoing and taking an inefficient shot. Melo is pretty much best as a three point spot-up shooter at this point in his career and that works better when he's playing with Russ or PG3 IMHO.

----------


## Roger S

> First, Melo provides far better spacing than Patterson or Grant, right? Players respect Melo's shot, but they completely ignore Grant and only kind of care about Patterson. Second, that's actually been a problem for Melo, PG, and Russ is that they keep thinking they have to take advantage, but they do so my isoing and taking an inefficient shot. Melo is pretty much best as a three point spot-up shooter at this point in his career and that works better when he's playing with Russ or PG3 IMHO.


Yes wrong.... Spacing has and is still an issue and Melo is taking too many contested 2pt shots because of it. He can still get his spot-up 3pt shots coming off the bench and once again against inferior players which should improve his potential to score..... The most pertinent point I am making here is that Melo coming off the bench puts him consistently on lesser talent and maximizes his ability to take advantage of that..... Did you see what he did in the Olympics coming off the bench?

----------


## HangryHippo

> Moving Melo to the second squad lets him take advantage of getting iso on players way below his caliber on a more regular basis.


This.

----------


## Jake

Melo laughed when someone asked him if he was willing to come off the bench during media day at the start of the season. 

He's not coming off the bench.

----------


## dankrutka

> Yes wrong.... Spacing has and is still an issue and Melo is taking too many contested 2pt shots because of it. He can still get his spot-up 3pt shots coming off the bench and once again against inferior players which should improve his potential to score..... The most pertinent point I am making here is that Melo coming off the bench puts him consistently on lesser talent and maximizes his ability to take advantage of that..... Did you see what he did in the Olympics coming off the bench?


 Honestly, if you reverse everything in this post then it is accurate.

----------


## dankrutka

It was late last night so let me explain. Melo and the other big three have been duped into taking lots of inefficient shots because they’re taking advantage of “lesser” players and mismatches. “Olympic Melo” was effective because he played with lots of other stars and thus reduced his game to being a spot up three point shooter and cutting out his isolation offense that consists of lots of bad shots. That’s what he needs to do... just be a spot up shooter and quit trying to take on mismatches. I actually think Melo is the worst one to play with the second unit because then he tries to take over, which is really bad at.

----------


## Roger S

> It was late last night so let me explain.


Glad you cleared that up... I generally respect your thoughts on the game but that comment last night had me sitting on the fence about that respect.  :Wink:

----------


## Anonymous.

> It was late last night so let me explain. Melo and the other big three have been duped into taking lots of inefficient shots because they’re taking advantage of “lesser” players and mismatches. “Olympic Melo” was effective because he played with lots of other stars and thus reduced his game to being a spot up three point shooter and cutting out his isolation offense that consists of lots of bad shots. That’s what he needs to do... just be a spot up shooter and quit trying to take on mismatches. I actually think Melo is the worst one to play with the second unit because then he tries to take over, which is really bad at.


I agree with this. Honestly if Russ just played exactly like last season, it would be way better. Because instead of Russ kicking out to wide open Roberson or Oladipo, he will be kicking out to Melo and PG. The awkward feed to Melo from Russ for an ISO pullup is so cringe. Russ/KD got away with it so often because well.... it is KD.

----------


## dankrutka

> Glad you cleared that up... I generally respect your thoughts on the game but that comment last night had me sitting on the fence about that respect.


Yeah, my bad. I actually typed a long response on my phone, I accidentally deleted it, and that snarky response is all I could muster before falling asleep. I respect you and enjoy the discussion so I apologize for the snarky comment. I try not to do that online because that's what turns discussions south quickly.

----------


## Anonymous.

Ugly win against an injury plagued Spurs. But I must say that we had probably the best ball movement I have seen all season. Guys just couldn't knock down their open shots.

----------


## Roger S

> Ugly win against an injury plagued Spurs. But I must say that we had probably the best ball movement I have seen all season. Guys just couldn't knock down their open shots.


They will need time to adjust to taking open shots.... They're too accustomed to taking contested ones.  :Wink:

----------


## G.Walker

They have a pretty easy schedule this month, save the Christmas date against the Rockets, but other than that, they should have a winning record this month.

----------


## Anonymous.

Jazz tonight coming here on a 7 game win streak. Going to be tough. Adams being successful will be a huge part of this game.

----------


## Laramie

> Jazz tonight coming here on a 7 game win streak. Going to be tough. Adams being successful will be a huge part of this game.


Let's hope this provides an incentive to accept the challenge.

----------


## Laramie

Thunder played with a sense of urgency; especially when they are behind on the scoreboard.   Great come-from-behind win; superb defense by Dre and an energized Westbrook who saps the energy from opponents.

Thunder 100
Jazz 94
Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975102

----------


## Easy180

> Jazz tonight coming here on a 7 game win streak. Going to be tough. Adams being successful will be a huge part of this game.


Good call on the Adams thing

----------


## Jake

The Thunder pathetically lost to a bad team again, keeping them two games below .500.

This team has been so disappointing.

----------


## Thomas Vu

On the plus side, the bench has scored the most I've seen it score with 29.

----------


## Easy180

Carmelo Anthony and Russell Westbrook lost to a team led by Caris Levert and Rondae Hollis-Jefferson. Not sure what to say after that opening statement.

----------


## dankrutka

> Carmelo Anthony and Russell Westbrook lost to a team led by Caris Levert and Rondae Hollis-Jefferson. Not sure what to say after that opening statement.


At least Caris Levert had a great night for my fantasy team.  :Wink:

----------


## Anonymous.

Yikes  that was pitiful. What even is this free throw percentage?!

Russ is totally different this season. Guess he burned everything up for his MVP.


EDIT: So I guess Russ has an injury, right hip.

----------


## Laramie

Thunder are 4 - 1 in December. Wins over Minnesota 111-107, San Antonio 90-87, Utah 100-94 @home & an OT @Memphis 102-101.

Brooklyn game in Mexico City is another below .500 team we let slip away.

Beat the struggling Charlotte Hornets (9-16) @home tomorrow, OKC should be poised to hit the road against Indiana (PG13 homecoming), Pacers are 16-11 with a 4 game win streak; Thunder snapped the Jazz' recent 6 game win streak.

Thunder will have a day of rest before back-to-back @ Philadelphia & New York both .500 teams. If we can go 2-1 on the road against Pacers. Nets & Knicks, I'll take that.

Note: When Charlotte reacquired the Hornets nickname, it's confusion since the Hornets use to call New Orleans & OKC home.

----------


## Anonymous.

PG seemed pissed in his post game interview last night. Melo left without talking to anyone after the game.

Why is Felton and Russ playing together? That lineup is getting wrecked. Why is Dakari getting basically zero minutes? We have no confidence in a backup center. Felton shot 10 times. PLEASE get Grant more involved, he is so athletic. The weird use of Collison and Patterson is super cringe-worthy.

Presti is on the phone today, if he hasn't been already the last two weeks.

Billy is getting the ax earlier than I thought, my original guess was AS Break, but maybe even before 2018. Also maybe we should just try to get a shooter for PG or something, he looks like he hates it here right now.

----------


## Laramie

Paul George's overall stats in OKC are higher than there were in Indiana 2016-17.

If you're looking for someone who could put this team on the right path;  Billy Donovan  (has all the answers) is where we need to start.  He's accountable...


Jeff Van Gundy is one you would want to consider if Billy Donovan is forced out.

----------


## dcsooner

The real question that must be asked is will Oklahoma City Thunder fans continue to support (attend games/buy tickets) the team during down or even losing seasons? Is the Thunder OKCs team?  and will the team receive support based on that fact alone? Has there been an allegiance established over ten years that will endure?

Many are skeptical that the market will sustain through droughts. thoughts?

----------


## dankrutka

> The real question that must be asked is will Oklahoma City Thunder fans continue to support (attend games/buy tickets) the team during down or even losing seasons? Is the Thunder OKCs team?  and will the team receive support based on that fact alone? Has there been an allegiance established over ten years that will endure?
> 
> Many are skeptical that the market will sustain through droughts. thoughts?


Yes, it’ll be fine. I have no doubts. OKC has the population to support the team and one sport pro teams tend to do very well. I’ve been to a lot of arenas and I don’t think most people realize how bad the atmosphere and attendance are in a lot of NBA cities. I went a game in NOLA last year with probably 8,000 people there. I went to a Jazz game two years ago against OKC with Russ and KD and there were probably 3,000 empty seats. Same thing when I saw OKC against Dwight and the Magic 5 years ago. I expect OKC fans to be some of the best to come for the foreseeable future.  OKC’s worst game experience in franchise history is better than the average for a lot of teams.

----------


## Laramie

Attendance in OKC is strong; Thunder consistently rank top 15 among 30 franchises.   We have a metro population base of 1.3 million; central city 635,000.   Thunder have a streak of 310 consecutive sellouts since 2010 season:

OKC Arena capacities:

*2002–2006 - 19,163  Ford Center	

2006–2008 - 19,164	

2008–2009 - 19,136  Oklahoma City Arena	

2009–present - 18,203 arena reconfiguration: Oklahoma City Arena/2011 Chesapeake Energy Arena 	
*
NBA Attendance link:  http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance

----------


## Laramie

*Oklahoma City Thunder 100 - Indiana Pacers 95*
Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975155

----------


## chuck5815

Well, this team seems to play well in the made-for-TV, storyline games (i.e. KD in OKC, George’s return to Indy). The big question is whether the team can motivate itself to beat the Charlottes and Sacramentos of the world. Hopefully they turn the corner on this road trip.

----------


## Roger S

> Well, this team seems to play well in the made-for-TV, storyline games (i.e. KD in OKC, George’s return to Indy). The big question is whether the team can motivate itself to beat the Charlottes and Sacramentos of the world. Hopefully they turn the corner on this road trip.


I’ve noticed they have an underdog complex. They win when they aren’t favored to win.

----------


## dankrutka

Big 3 went 10 of 45... and won. That' incredible. Russ, PG, and Melo are all shooting so bad over such a large sample of games. It's pretty stunning. Great job by Steven Adams, Alex Abrines, and Patrick Patterson to step up on offense.

----------


## Anonymous.

Abrines is good when he gets substantial minutes who would have thought!?

I hope this Roberson injury has shown Billy that in order for players to get in rhythm, you actually have to let them play. Patterson with his best game for us so far. And Heustis came through on some 3 balls. The bench and Adams are responsible for what is now our best road win.

----------


## dcsooner

They should play Abrines more. He can play give the guy some run

----------


## dankrutka

Abrines hitting threes really opens up the offense for OKC. Unfortunately, Abrines playing defense really opens up the lane for the other team. Lol. Him and Melo can really put the defense at a disadvantage. However, I think it's an experiment worth trying. While I'm a Roberson defender (mostly because a lot of fans think he's garbage and don't recognize his defensive value at all), I have always been in favor of using Roberson as a situational defender, not an automatic starter. In other words, start Roberson when the matchups dictate it and Abrines when he seems like a better fit. 

But, yeah, another interesting note from last night. I think one reason some guys broke out is that Billy went with those all bench units and those guys actually felt the confidence and responsibility to make plays. I just think there's a lot of offensive deference to the Big 3 when one of them is on the floor that maybe playing all bench units more is necessary to get those guys going. 

Still a lot of good signs for OKC long term if they can address some of the larger offensive problems.

----------


## Laramie

*It's our turn...  ...ugly wins, we'll take them just like ugly losses.*

----------


## Jersey Boss

I'm looking forward to Adams v. Embrid. Westbrook needs to feed Adams in all 4 quarters, not just the first 3.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 119 - Philadelphia 76ers 117*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/id/400975172

----------


## Jake

Gonna be tired for tomorrow's game lol

----------


## Easy180

Westbrook, George and Anthony get beat easily by a team led by Michael Beasley.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 95 - Denver Nuggets 94*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975198

----------


## Anonymous.

If OKC can put together a solid string of Ws heading into Christmas against HOU, then we could be sniffing the 4th-5th seed. Beating Jazz twice this week would help gap ourselves into the playoff picture.

We need Adams to come back soon. Not sure how many more heroics Russ can pull off. PG is playing miserable, he bricked at least 6 wide open shots against DEN @ home. Abrines is finally getting minutes that put up the much needed threeball we have always lacked. I think we may have finally found that catch and shoot 3 guy. It was nice to see Melo actually pass the ball and find teammates, he needs to shoot probably 4-5 more times, it would be solid if he had about 10 or 12 shots each game.

----------


## Easy180

Not sure what is going on with George. He looked absolutely lost last night.

----------


## Laramie

*Oklahoma City Thunder 107 - Utah Jazz 79*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975211

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 120 - Atlanta Hawks 117*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975228

----------


## Anonymous.

Winning solves everything. Thunder finally getting Ws, even with PG playing like doodoo on offense.

----------


## Easy180

Still not blowing out these crap teams like good teams should. Will see if this turnaround is for real with the Rockets and Raptors coming up.

----------


## Thomas Vu

Should feel decent about the Rockets with CP3 out, or was that injury only for the game?

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 103 - Utah Jazz 89*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975239
Thunder are 10 - 3 in December.  Season W-L 18-15 with a 4 game win streak.

Outstanding leadership by Russell Westbrook, Paul George & Carmelo Anthony.
*
Kudos to Patterson 4-4, Paul George 2-2 & Jerami Grant 2-2 - 100% at the free throw line. Thunder went 13-16 for 81.3%*

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 112 - Houston Rockets 107*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400974448
Thunder stayed focused & increased the streak to five games; no third quarter lows--30 point high, Dre kept Harden at bay and Jerami Grant had an outstanding game.  Best non ugly complete game performance by the Thunder this season.

----------


## Thomas Vu

> .
> *Oklahoma City Thunder 112 - Houston Rockets 107*
> 
> Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400974448
> Thunder stayed focused & increased the streak to five games; no third quarter lows--30 point high, Dre kept Harden at bay and Jerami Grant had an outstanding game.  Best non ugly complete game performance by the Thunder this season.


It was a very nice luxury to have both pg13 and roberson focus on Harden.

----------


## Urbanized

Don’t look now, but Paul George now leads the league in steals (2.53 per game). Second place belongs to...Russell Westbrook (2.09).

----------


## Laramie

> Don’t look now, but Paul George now leads the league in steals (2.53 per game). Second place belongs to...Russell Westbrook (2.09).


Good observation; he's also top 25 in many individual NBA player categories.



Carmelo Anthony is becoming more consistent in the last 5 games as our Big 3 mesh.

----------


## Urbanized

Carmelo is doing a much better job of accepting a role here as a spot-up shooter, which is very different than the style of play that he’s used to. Old dog/new tricks, tiger changing his stripes, whatever you want to call it, I think it says a lot about his teamwork, humility, desire to win with this team, and also about how the catching staff has helped him adapt. It could not have been easy after all of these years, and I think we saw that on court for sure.

You still see flashes of his brilliance in iso, and you don’t want to see that go away completely. He’s one of the all-time greats at that. But for this team to fully leverage the advantage that having Russell Westbrook brings, it’s important for people to check their egos at the door, something Carmelo’s detractors said he’d never do. Glad he’s quietly proving them wrong.

----------


## dankrutka

^^^
And this is after Melo volunteered to play the 4 at the beginning of the season. He’s consistently shown the willingness to make sacrifices for the team. He’s a pro’s pro. Still need to figure out some roles (e.g., Patterson, Abrines), but this team seems to be figuring it out a bit. The key is consistency and time will tell...

----------


## warreng88

I was watching the game last night with my cousin who lives in Long Island and is a huge Knicks fan. He said he never liked Melo because he was a black hole in that as soon as the ball got to him, it didn't go anywhere else. He said, if he can accept his role and pass more and not have to be the man on the team, the Thunder will thrive with him.

----------


## dankrutka

> I was watching the game last night with my cousin who lives in Long Island and is a huge Knicks fan. He said he never liked Melo because he was a black hole in that as soon as the ball got to him, it didn't go anywhere else. He said, if he can accept his role and pass more and not have to be the man on the team, the Thunder will thrive with him.


Yeah, but the Knicks were disastrously constructed. Melo was a pro in New York too, but Phil Jackson’s insistence on running the Triangle and signing old, injured, and ineffective players required Melo to shoulder a huge offensive load. When the Knicks had a decent team they won 54 games. Anyway, Melo should ge a little blame, but he’s largely a scapegoat for a poorly run franchise. Overall, New York fans love Melo.

----------


## Laramie

If the Thunder can have no more than 1 of the Big 3 having an off night you'll see a strong finish by the Thunder with no team wanting to meet them in the playoffs.

----------


## Jersey Boss

Melo has found his niche and the team is playing markedly better. Donovan is now being heard and listened to.

----------


## Roger S

> Melo has found his niche and the team is playing markedly better. Donovan is now being heard and listened to.


So does this mean Donovan won’t be fired by the All Star break as some around here predicted or does that prediction still stand?

----------


## Rover

I don't think you change staff when the their work is just starting to pay off.  Anyone who thinks all the team changes weren't traumatic, especially considering the histories of the new players, probably hasn't played a lot of team sports.  I think Donovan is secure, at least through this year and until we see which players are with us for next year.

----------


## Anonymous.

> So does this mean Donovan wont be fired by the All Star break as some around here predicted or does that prediction still stand?


I am still not sure if Donovan is correct for this group in this situation. But like I mentioned a few days ago, winning solves everything. If We can keep stringing together W streaks and get a homecourt seed for the first round, then the season was turned around big time.

Remember, our schedule has been relatively easy thus far. We have an absurd amount of losses to teams that are not just below .500, but are fighting for lottery positions. The flipside is we seem to play really well against good teams. Tonight will be another tough one against TOR, as they are recently on a tear except for losing to Dallas last night. May catch a break by getting them on the end of the B2B.

----------


## Laramie

Thunder unveil 'City' edition uniforms; What are your thoughts?
The Thunder reserves will be key:

Alex Abrines/Terrance Ferguson
Raymond Felton
Josh Huestis
Dakari Johnson/Jerami Grant
Patrick Patterson
ESPN Oklahoma City Thunder Roster: http://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/...a-city-thunder

----------


## Laramie

*Oklahoma City Thunder 124 - Toronto Raptors 107*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975258

----------


## Laramie

*December:* 

Thunder are 12 wins & 3 losses.  

Currently on a 6 game win streak:  Home 8 - 1 . . . . Road 4 - 2
 * Let's Go Thunder!*

----------


## PhiAlpha

Don't look now, but after last night the Thunder has wins against three of the best teams in the NBA. Have to start beating all the crap teams on the schedule now.

----------


## Laramie

. 
*Oklahoma City Thunder 133 - Los Angeles Lakers 96*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975311

----------


## Anonymous.

Well T Ferg pretty much just removed any hopes Abrines had of getting meaningful minutes, at least for now.

----------


## warreng88

> Well T Ferg pretty much just removed any hopes Abrines had of getting meaningful minutes, at least for now.


Yep, although he can't be expected to perform like that for every game. I mean, the guy shot 75% from the field, 67% from 3 for 24 points and had three steals. His previous best game was against Dallas on 11/25 where he had 21 minutes and only seven points, 60% FG shooting.

----------


## Rover

T-Ferg plays way better defense than Abrines.  He and Daniel Hamilton will keep moving past Abrines.  Abrines plays defense from behind.... would have to shoot 60% from 3 to make up for his defense.

----------


## Bellaboo

I can see Abrines on the trade block. It would be a salary dump also. The Knicks wanted him but we gave them McBuckets instead.

----------


## dankrutka

> T-Ferg plays way better defense than Abrines.  He and Daniel Hamilton will keep moving past Abrines.  Abrines plays defense from behind.... would have to shoot 60% from 3 to make up for his defense.


If Abrines shot 60% from three he'd be starting and getting 35 minutes a game. Lol. But, yeah, I think Ferguson will get a shot. It's easy to overact to one game so I'm interested to see whether he's ready to be a consistent contributor. I love his defensive intensity, but as he gets more minutes, more teams will take advantage of his slight frame and that could become a defensive liability. In regards to Daniel Hamilton, he absolutely has not passed Abrines in any way. He got garbage time minutes in one game when Abrines was injured, but he did look good yesterday.

----------


## dankrutka

> I can see Abrines on the trade block. It would be a salary dump also.


I don't see Abrines being on the trade block because his value is so low right now, but the latter could be possible. It's hard to see the Thunder giving up on him already. Remember, Abrines is still only 24. I could still see him developing into a productive rotation player. But with the Thunder paying so much tax, maybe they'd dump him to a young team for an expiring player who could contribute this season.

----------


## Laramie

*Terrance Ferguson SG #23 had an outstanding night against the Lakers.*

----------


## OKCisOK4me

^^good stuff. Nice to see him shine!

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 127 - Los Angeles Clippers 117*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975313

----------


## Anonymous.

Well the Suns were on fire, but the lack of defensive effort is really bad with this team. I know we are missing a huge piece in Roberson, but it looked like OKC didn't care about that PHX game. 

We now have horrible losses to Orlando, Dallas twice!, Phoenix, New York, Sacramento, Utah, Charlotte. These _will_ come back to haunt OKC in the playoffs when it comes to home court.

----------


## Roger S

> We now have horrible losses to Orlando, Dallas twice!, Phoenix, New York, Sacramento, Utah, Charlotte. These _will_ come back to haunt OKC in the playoffs when it comes to home court.


How so? We have some pretty nice home wins too... Anyone remember that Golden State game? How about Houston? How about Toronto? How about Minnesota?

Something I've been wondering..... How much could LaVar Ball being toxic in LA influence Paul George to want to stay here?

----------


## Jake

The Thunder have the potential to beat anybody. They also have the potential to lose to anybody.

----------


## Anonymous.

> How so? We have some pretty nice home wins too...


Because giving away "should-be" wins to teams that aren't even close to .500 is unacceptable on a regular basis. Sure the random off night is allowable where a tanking team has a player that has a breakout game against us. But the Thunder has a pathetic resume against these bad teams.

You get homecourt advantage in the playoffs based on your record against your opponent. Just think if back in 2016 that OKC hosted WCF game 7 instead of Oracle. The entire NBA landscape would likely be  drastically different if we win that game. Home court matters in the West.

----------


## Roger S

Ok... You are right.... Let's just ignore all those home court wins against playoff teams.... They don't matter.

----------


## Anonymous.

I am not sure you are understanding my original post...

----------


## Roger S

> I am not sure you are understanding my original post...


You are probably right as I re-read it now.

----------


## OkiePoke

We have a terrible record against the Suns for some reason.

----------


## Thomas Vu

I'll go ahead and hammer it home in the event there is a misunderstanding.  

It seems like OKC happens to play to the level of their opponent, and have a really bad record against <500 teams.  

With how the NBA is perceived, having a losing record against <500 teams will result in no home field advantage in the playoffs if even making it to the playoffs if losing to enough <500 teams. 

Yes, the wins against Houston, GSW, and MIN are impressive.  OKC is wasting the potential benefits for it though with these losses

----------


## Roger S

> I'll go ahead and hammer it home in the event there is a misunderstanding.


It was simply a matter of a dyslexic reading of the word "home".

----------


## dankrutka

As of now, OKC looks like it's likely destined for the 4 or 5 spot. It'd be nice to get the 4 seed and play Minnesota with home court advantage, but most series do not come down to a game 7. As long as OKC keeps improving then it's not drastically important whether they're the 3-6 seeds in my opinion. Heck, OKC's best bet might be to drop to the 6 seed and match up against San Antonio in round 1 while avoiding the the Warriors until the Western Conference Finals (assuming they get the 1 seed). As for the 2016 Warriors series that was mentioned above. OKC actually had taken the homecourt advantage from the Warriors and had a series-clinching game at home in game 6 and it didn't matter. It's more important that this OKC team is playing its best ball in the playoffs than it is that they get homecourt advantage IMHO. NBA teams, especially veteran ones, can get wins on the road in the playoffs.

----------


## Bill Robertson

This morning on the radio I heard one of our guys doing an after game interview. I was doing paperwork so I was bit preoccupied and didn’t catch who it was. What did catch my ear was his answer to a question about what went wrong. His answer was “They just played with more intensity than we did”.  So wait, you know they were playing harder than you and you couldn’t step it up a notch or 10?

----------


## Bellaboo

> I'll go ahead and hammer it home in the event there is a misunderstanding.  
> 
> It seems like OKC happens to play to the level of their opponent, and have a really bad record against <500 teams.  
> 
> *With how the NBA is perceived, having a losing record against <500 teams will result in no home field advantage in the playoffs if even making it to the playoffs if losing to enough <500 teams.* 
> 
> Yes, the wins against Houston, GSW, and MIN are impressive.  OKC is wasting the potential benefits for it though with these losses


What ?   It's strictly won / loss record with implications from the conference you play within. I'm not so sure if division winners means anything against a better record ?

----------


## Bellaboo

> This morning on the radio I heard one of our guys doing an after game interview. I was doing paperwork so I was bit preoccupied and didn’t catch who it was. What did catch my ear was his answer to a question about what went wrong. His answer was “They just played with more intensity than we did”.  So wait, you know they were playing harder than you and you couldn’t step it up a notch or 10?


That was Patrick Patterson - stating as a team the Thunder lacked effort.

----------


## Jake

Thunder looking like their ceiling is a 5-6 seed this season. Another bad performance against a team that doesn't have their best player. I think this might just be who they are.

----------


## Anonymous.

Our defense of 3 point shooting has to be the worst in the league. At a time when 3 pointers are @ their highest volume ever. #justthunderthings

Roberson, how you feeling?

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^^
Agreed. My biggest gripe against this team for a while has been defending the three. Any team with ball movement* abuses them and usually ends up with a banner night from behind the arc. Slow on rotations, guys wide open on the wing, slow to nonexistent close-outs.

My other gripe is spotty defensive rebounding. WAY to many easy put-backs and second chance opportunities. Box out! Its fundamental!

*notable exception vs GSW

----------


## mugofbeer

Fast side question:  we live in Denver and my son wants to know if there was ever any attempt to include the term Thunderdome as part of the Chesapeake Arena name?  I don't  recall it ever being discussed and it's probably a registered trademark or something.

----------


## Anonymous.

^ Doubtful. The OKC organization is super boring with all things brand and design related. 

OKC loses third straight. Butler and Wiggins cook the team and PG and Melo missed the flight to MIN.

----------


## Jake

22-20

This is the 2nd worst start in franchise history. (Team is only a decade old, but still)

----------


## Roger S

> Fast side question:  we live in Denver and my son wants to know if there was ever any attempt to include the term Thunderdome as part of the Chesapeake Arena name?


I'm still holding out hope that when the next group gets naming rights to the arena that it's Sonic so they can call it the Super Sonic Center.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 101 - Charlotte Hornets 91*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975375

----------


## Laramie

It would be tragic to end this season short of making the playoffs; especially when the ownership has gone full throttle to get the best available players on the free agency market and retain Russell Westbrook.

Prediction:
Oklahoma City Thunder 112
Sacramento Kings 97
There should not be any home losses to sub par opponents who are well under .500 starting with Sacramento (last place in the Western Conference).

----------


## Anonymous.

^ Oh don't worry. I am sure Buddy Hield will have a banner game and hit 6 threes on us.

Kings: have lost 9 of last 11 and are on a 4 game L streak.

OKC: hold my beer.

----------


## Urbanized

I’m not predicting a deep run at this point - though still believe they could click after All-Star break and make noise - but it is incredibly unlikely that the Thunder would miss the playoffs.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 95 - Sacramento Kings 88*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975389

Thunder free throws 14-30 (46.7%)

----------


## Anonymous.

OKC has a good chance to make a push on the 4th seed over the next few weeks. MIN's schedule is very tough and ours is relatively easy, except for maybe playing in Cleveland on Saturday. Depends if Lebron and crew gets their act together by then.

----------


## Jersey Boss

Looking at the standings reveals there is only a 1.5 game difference between 5th and 9th. Between 5th and 4th there is a 4 game difference. Take what you will from this.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 114 - Los Angeles Lakers 90*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975406

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 148 - Cleveland Cavaliers  124*

Box score:   http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975420

Thunder now on a four game win streak.

----------


## Roger S

What the heck just happened??? Did we enter an alternate reality???

----------


## dcsooner

> What the heck just happened??? Did we enter an alternate reality???


What team was that?

----------


## catch22

> What the heck just happened??? Did we enter an alternate reality???


That was a great game. The commentary on how we play to our opponents level is true. We are really good against good teams, and we are really bad against bad teams.

It all seems to be getting better though with each game. The rest of the season and playoffs will be exciting.

----------


## Roger S

> It all seems to be getting better though with each game. The rest of the season and playoffs will be exciting.


Well so far we’ve destroyed both teams in the Finals last year. They play like that in the playoffs and, not setting my hopes that high now but, we hang a new banner this year.

----------


## Laramie

* Cavs embarrassing loss to Thunder.*

----------


## Anonymous.

Cavs are really bad right now. But OKC was on it. That combination almost got us a 150 point game.

All I know is I'm going to be pissed if Presti sends Ferguson away in a trade, because that dude could be future.

----------


## Bellaboo

^^^ Abrines is the only one (wishing Singler) that would be trade bait. Abrines has some value...

----------


## Laramie

. 
*Oklahoma City Thunder 109 - Brooklyn Nets 108*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975443

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 121 - Washington Wizards 112*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975457

----------


## Roger S

Look at those Thunder on a 6 game winning streak against teams they had been losing to.... Could it be they're starting to figure things out?

Said I wasn't going to complain, or worry, about this team until after the All-Star break and it's looking like that may have been a good goal to set for them.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^^^
That was the prudent approach for a team with the amount of key personnel changes plus addition of All-star/HOF-level players into the starting line-up who were being asked to adapt to new roles and a very different style of play than they had been used to. I have been pretty consistent in this attitude myself over the course of the season, and I’m glad I stuck to my guns.

----------


## Anonymous.

Paul George's offense has arrived in OKC.

----------


## Laramie

.
*
Oklahoma City Thunder 121 - Detroit Pistons 108*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975470
*Carmello Anthony 25,004 career points.
Westbrook triple double 31pts, 11 reb, 13 ast
Thunder 7 game win streak*

----------


## Jake

Roberson out for the season. There goes any slim title chance hopes we had

----------


## dankrutka

> Roberson out for the season. There goes any slim title chance hopes we had


Yeah, probably. Massive loss. But maybe OKC can find an expiring 2 from a bad team before the trade deadline. No one can replace Roberson defensively, but maybe there’s a 2-way player that could help. Unfortunately, I’m afraid OKC might have to mortgage it’s future to get any player worthwhile.

----------


## Jake

Well, at least Huestis and Ferguson will get a lot of experience out of this.

----------


## Urbanized

Not sure Thunder was truly in the mix for a championship this year but yeah, that definitely takes a hit. That said, if it would cause one or more players to become more intentional on defense to make up for the loss - especially Russ, who could surely be elite - and if someone like T Ferg or Huestis steps up in a big way, plus maybe one personnel move, I think they could still do about as well as they probably would have anyway. Not to minimize the Robes loss, which is massive.

----------


## Anonymous.

Yea this pretty much just removed our entire weapon against GSW/HOU. I feel so bad for Roberson, the dude finally had his role down to a science. The look on Russ's face when he saw Roberson laying there and Roberson was saying "yea it's done" was completely heartbreaking. Roberson is still young, hopefully this isn't going to alter his career's big picture like this same injury has done to many before him.

----------


## Easy180

Shooters can somewhat afford to be a step slower after serious injuries. Defensive specialists can’t afford to lose that step so this is not good news at all.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 122 - Philadelphia 76ers 112*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975482

----------


## dankrutka

Great win tonight. OKC needs to figure out a way to get a consistent player who the team can count on because they have a lot of young, inconsistent ones (Ferguson, Huestis, Abrines, Grant). Unfortunately, OKC can't take on much more money. Here are some shooting guard possibilities who are on reasonable contracts:
- Avery Bradley
- Marco Belinelli
- Tyreke Evans
- Rodney Hood
- Caris LeVert
- Joe Harris
Any of those guys would be a significant upgrade.

----------


## Anonymous.

Clippers are currently blowing it up. I am sure Presti is on about 3 phones right now.

----------


## Bellaboo

> Clippers are currently blowing it up. I am sure Presti is on about 3 phones right now.


Blake to Detroit - Tobias Harris and 2 others to Clips.

----------


## Laramie

Who's next on the Clippers chopping block, DeAndre Jordan?

Blake had an opportunity to return home,  oh well, he'll love Detroit.

----------


## Anonymous.

Russ was due for a bad game. And we still had a shot to win it. Heustis made like 3 bone-headed moves right @ the end that sealed it for WAS.

Also are we back to freezing out PG in the 4th now???

----------


## king183

> Russ was due for a bad game. And we still had a shot to win it. Heustis made like 3 bone-headed moves right @ the end that sealed it for WAS.
> 
> Also are we back to freezing out PG in the 4th now???


It was just a really bad game all around. Russ was bad, Anthony wasn't hitting, Huestis made really dumb mistakes in quick succession, as did Adams who passed up a wide-open dunk (literally no one was standing near him--Russ's face was hilarious) and then unnecessarily fouled in the last 40 seconds, sending them to the free throw line. But we are in the middle of a tiring schedule.

----------


## dankrutka

One thing that’s showing up big tonight. Russ is, and always has been, an extremely lazy defender. When Roberson went down there’s s hope he’d step up... he’s been worse. Sometimes he’s just mentally lazy (e.g., go for easy steal instead of playing sound D), but a lot of times he’s just physically lazy. I get that he has a big offensive load, but it’s frustrating. Nothing new, but frustrating. /rant over

----------


## Jake

> One thing that’s showing up big tonight. Russ is, and always has been, an extremely lazy defender. When Roberson went down there’s s hope he’d step up... he’s been worse. Sometimes he’s just mentally lazy (e.g., go for easy steal instead of playing sound D), but a lot of times he’s just physically lazy. I get that he has a big offensive load, but it’s frustrating. Nothing new, but frustrating. /rant over


A thousand times this ^^^

For all the crap people give Harden for his defensive abilities (or lack thereof), Westbrook is a legitamately bad defender a lot of times. It's frustrating, because he has all the athletic tools to be at least a passable level defender. Frustrating.

----------


## dankrutka

> A thousand times this ^^^
> 
> For all the crap people give Harden for his defensive abilities (or lack thereof), Westbrook is a legitamately bad defender a lot of times. It's frustrating, because he has all the athletic tools to be at least a passable level defender. Frustrating.


On cue: Russ literally didn’t even pay attention to his man on an in bounds play with 1 second left and gave up the game winner. Again, not surprising. Russ has always been like this and it won’t change, but it sure is frustrating.

----------


## Jake

Roberson hides a lot of the team's deficiencies on defense as a whole, but especially Westbrook's. 

Westbrook could essentially do what he wanted on the defensive end; cheat, go for steals, etc, and Roberson would be able to switch over and cover his man. Without him, Westbrook can't do that and it really shows. He has no idea what he's doing half the time on defense. 

It'll be interesting to see if/when Presti makes any moves to help out.

----------


## Anonymous.

Man... Another game winner against OKC.

PG is playing out of his mind right now, if we can get the defense back to something manageable sans Roberson, we will be a legit team. Russ is in a small slump, but he is still clutch. And I agree with the posters above, if he had just stuck to his man - we would likely be fighting in OT in DEN.

----------


## dankrutka

The team is still trending in the right direction. It’ll be interesting to see who/if OKC can get in the coming days...

----------


## Celebrator

We really didn't deserve to win after we let them score that many points in the first half and they got revenge they wanted for this  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVW2TqpFpAs last night

----------


## Bellaboo

There was a report out that the in bound player (Jokic) took four small steps which should have been called as a turnover. He also went to the 5 second count. Another turnover. The refs swallowed their whistles again.

With the come back in the last 6 minutes, I have confidence that we would have won the game in overtime. Oh well.

----------


## dankrutka

> On cue: Russ literally didn’t even pay attention to his man on an in bounds play with 1 second left and gave up the game winner. Again, not surprising. Russ has always been like this and it won’t change, but it sure is frustrating.


To be fair, here's another take on that final play: 

@HPbasketball: On the final play, as I discussed on @FredKatz’ podcast: I genuinely don’t think Russ was being lazy. He’s tracking Jokic’s eyes, which go to the rim. He’s worried about a lob. It’s bad awareness, not effort. He closed out like a demon, too, got a piece of the ball.

https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/sta...73745797640192

----------


## Anonymous.

This makes every game winner hit against the Thunder this year (3), being possible only because the refs did not make the correct call.

feelsbadman.jpg

----------


## dankrutka

Really awful stretch by OKC with their 4th straight loss. There are several problems, but one primary one is they have 6 guys are on their roster right now that are not competent NBA level players: Terrance Ferguson (hell likely be good in 3-4 years), Alex Abrines, Josh Huestis, Kyle Singler, Nick Collison, and Dakari Johnson. Ferguson needs to come out of the starting lineup. Hes absolutely killing it. None of those guys are able to play at the level of a bad NBA player. The team just lacks depth because of it. A trade has to happen, it likely would mean further mortgaging the future, which OKC has already done in trading away future first round picks. Maybe they can get a buy out candidate. Lets see what Presti can do.

----------


## Jake

I can't even be too disappointed because I think the season essentially ended the moment Andre Roberson went down. Like Dan said, a trade has to happen, but they'll have to mortgage their future to get anyone of value. They simply don't have many assets.

I'm pretty concerned about where the franchise will be if Paul George leaves. Even with him off the books, the Thunder don't exactly have a plethora of cap-space or valuable assets. They may be in 6-4 seed purgatory for years, which is terrifying.

----------


## dankrutka

I’ll also point out that even without Roberson, this team is not as bad as they’ve played the last four games. Even without a move, they’ll play much better than this.

----------


## Urbanized

Just today ESPN posted this Rachel Nichols interview: http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=22302112

I think there is an excellent chance of PG staying if they continue to progress as a team, if he remains convinced Presti and the ownership are in it to win it, and if the Thunder can figure out how to make the dollars work (possibly the most difficult part of the equation).

I don’t get this “the season was over when Andre went down” narrative. Did anyone really think we were contending for a championship this year? After KD bailed, I think last season became a “let Russ off the chain” year, and a chance to prove to Russ once and for all that the organization was fully behind him in front of his long term deal. I think THIS year has always (mostly) been about auditioning the organization for PG (seems to be working pretty well) plus hopefully making a deep run. Maybe if we were lucky they’d throw a scare into teams like Houston and Golden State. But if they accomplished these things they’d be in a position to seriously contend next year after making a few more moves. I think all of that is still totally in front of them.

I just don’t get the “OMG our championship has been derailed” line of thinking. Even if everyone had managed to remain healthy I’d have given the Thunder way less than a 10% chance of winning it all. They just need to remain relevant and find a way to build on the moves made this year.

----------


## Jake

I agree with the fact that they weren't going to win it this year even healthy. My definition of "season" was maybe making it to the WCF and seeing what they could do against Golden State. They aren't anymore unless Ferguson turns into MJ.

So, yeah, they need to hopefully right the ship enough to keep Paul George here. He seems to like it, and the interviews are nice, but Durant and Paul George himself said similar kinds of things before they both left for other teams.

I trust Presti has a game plan for both possible outcomes of PG's free agency.

The difficulty is keeping their heads above water and making moves to do so while they are handicapped by little assets and little money to go around. Presti is gonna have to work his magic.

----------


## Urbanized

I don’t want to bore with my analysis and kooky tinfoil hat theories on Durant’s departure, but I think both situations were/are pretty different. George could always jump for a team with better ring chances but I don’t think the Lakers or even Clippers are a threat to lure him anymore. OKC is in a strong a position.

----------


## Jake

> I don’t want to bore with my analysis and kooky tinfoil hat theories on Durant’s departure, but I think both situations were/are pretty different. George could always jump for a team with better ring chances but I don’t think the Lakers or even Clippers are a threat to lure him anymore. OKC is in a strong a position.


I agree to an extent. The Durant situation was certainly unique and if Golden State didn't get Curry on such a steal of a contract, we aren't even having this conversation lol.

----------


## Urbanized

By the way, even in that interview he indirectly address the differences in the situation. Yeah, PG said he was focused on winning a championship in Indy right up until he was traded, but that was his job. He didn’t say he was staying or wanted to stay, and in fact telling the team a season out that he planned to sign elsewhere was actually the decent thing to do. It allowed them to make moves and get value for his expiring contract (which turned out to be great fortune for Indiana with the addition of Oladipo and Sabonis). Not to mention he was TRADED. Not sure why Pacers fans are so salty besides the fact that he admitted he didn’t want to stay. It was a no-win for him no matter how he handled it.

Durant on the other hand led everyone to believe he was staying via a bunch of unnecessary comments - “I want to see my jersey retired here,” et al - dithered long enough in free agcency to kill a deal for the Thunder to get Horford, and then bounced, leaving the team completely empty-handed. Forget about jumping to a team - a rival no less - that was already winning championships, not bothering a simple “thank you for supporting me” on the way out the door, letting people dog/blame Russ, negative comments in the media, and all of the other sorry crap, the fact that he essentially sabatoged the team on the way out was the most inexcusable part as far as I’m concerned.

The situations really could not be more different.

----------


## dankrutka

Roberson helped this team be competitive with top teams. OKC could have been a legit top 5 team. If this team squeaks into the playoffs and loses in the first round in 5 games then PG could be more inclined to walk. PG  has said himself that he wants to see the progress of the team. So it is important for this team to play well this season. There’s a big difference between being a top-five team and being a top 15 team. We’ll see what happens with the roster and how the team  bounces back over the rest of the season. But make no mistake, Roberson was a big loss for this season because this team may have moved from competitive to uncompetitive with top teams.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^^^^
There’s still time for a move or moves, plus lots of talk both from the team and the media after tonight’s game that they had definitely built the team play around Roberson’s strengths and were obviously going to have to restructure a bit, but that they felt confident because they had already been able to change longstanding individual playing styles to fit the team’s identity once, and should be able to buckle down and to the same thing again. I don’t sense any panic or surrender, so I won’t be doing those things either.

----------


## dankrutka

There's a big difference between players changing their individual playing styles and players being asked to do things they can't. The changes Melo and others made to their games made sense from the beginning, but it was just tough to change habits. That is not the case now. The roster is flawed without Roberson because (a) his defense covered a lot of Russ and Melo's inabilities/mistakes and allowed PG and Adams to thrive. There aren't players on the roster to fix that now. And, (b) Presti's numerous mistakes with the end of the bench parts of the roster are all of a sudden a serious problem. We have 7 non-NBA players on the roster (Ferguson is just young, but the other 6 maybe wouldn't play any minutes on any team) and 7 NBA-level players. There's just no depth. So, we'll see what Presti can do, but Roberson's loss could result in the Thunder getting blown out in the 1st round again and PG leaving because of it. 

We'll see. I think the team will player better than this, but I think you're underestimating the possible PG implications of going from a competitive playoff/top 5 team to an uncompetitive top 15 team that gets run out of the first round like last year.

----------


## Urbanized

Well, we still have a few days ‘til the trade deadline, and as far as the reports I’ve seen Avery Bradley is still in play, along with some other options. That said, I’m still convinced that even as-structured with a few elevations in individual play they are *capable* of winning at least one series and contending for another. Depends a lot on seeding, of course.

All I know is that it would only take a scroll back through this very thread to see tons of posters wanting to put a fork in the team in December, before the Thunder gelled and spent over a month as the hottest team in the league, record-wise. I’ll also point out that I was advising staying the course back when things were looking bad in November-December.

----------


## bhawes

IF Lebron goes to Houston PG13 will sign with the Thunder. If Lebron goes to the Lakers it a 90 percent chance PG13 is going to the Lakers.

----------


## Anonymous.

So OKC coming in on a 4-game L streak and bleeding out of our patella tendons.

Warriors coming off a loss to Denver with an additional day of rest over OKC.

Warriors haven't lost two games in a row in almost 3 years.


Game is @ 9:30, liquor stores close @ 9:00.

----------


## Teo9969

I don't see how this OKC team doesn't make it out of the 1st round if they're in the Top 5. They're just too disruptive defensively when they want to be and I think that they have the means offensively.

From there, I still don't think we're in a position to gauge where the Thunder are at. With Roberson I think they were the only legitimate threat to Golden State based on the fact that OKC's defense can go toe to toe with Golden State's offense - so the deciding factor would have been how ridiculous Curry and Thompson play along with if OKC could have a great series offensively.

At this point I think they need to get to the 3 seed to have a decent shot at the WCF. I think they could play Houston pretty well.

At any rate, injuries aside, Golden State should waltz to another Championship again with no more than 3 losses. You simply can't answer a team that could vie for the greatest collection of talent in all of sports history.

----------


## Anonymous.

Well of course OKC keeps their perfect record against the top teams by absolutely crushing the Warriors.

Melo basically didn't play. And Adams only played the second half because of this pathetic ref show.

Honestly PG is re-signing with OKC, there is no way he leaves this potent team to the garbage Lakers when OKC steps up like this on the big stage. 

Seeing PG put the snake on skates tonight was like that final step. Grant was HUGE in this game. He has fit his role amazingly since Roberson went down.

----------


## Anonymous.

I want to double post to say this.

Looking @ the Eastern Conference right now, it is a total sh!tshow in Cleveland and the Celtics aren't nearly as strong as they looked early. If OKC can get through the West in the playoffs, it may be the best shot @ a championship we have had since 2012. The Champion is in the West.

Presti is going to have a sleepless night and day trying to decide if he is going to pull a trigger and go all-out to get a defensive piece in here and go for broke.

----------


## Teo9969

> I want to double post to say this.
> 
> Looking @ the Eastern Conference right now, it is a total sh!tshow in Cleveland and the Celtics aren't nearly as strong as they looked early. If OKC can get through the West in the playoffs, it may be the best shot @ a championship we have had since 2012. The Champion is in the West.
> 
> Presti is going to have a sleepless night and day trying to decide if he is going to pull a trigger and go all-out to get a defensive piece in here and go for broke.


They won't beat the Warriors this year - But if KD takes his option this summer the Warriors would *still* be over the Salary cap with just 7 players on the roster. They will have no bench moving forward and Iggy is past his prime. 

I think if they find a way to trade off Carmelo into somebody's cap space and can keep Grant, re-sign Felton, and find another solid 4 or 5 to come in they've got a real shot next year. Melo's just way too expensive for what he brings to the table.

----------


## Teo9969

^^Obviously assumes we keep Paul George^^

I mean, I guess you can trade away Ferguson since he's really not going to be a major contributor in this team's title window (next 3/4 years)

----------


## dankrutka

Incredible game tonight! Russ and PG played great games. A big thing is that Josh Huestis was able to contribute, but I'm still not convinced the Thunder can rely on him in the playoffs. This team still needs to make a move. 

Having said that, I still don't think OKC is a threat to Golden State or Houston as constructed. Those teams are complete and OKC still has majors flaws. Those flaws will get exposed in a playoff series. 

We'll see if Presti can get anything done for a shooting guard.

----------


## dankrutka

> I mean, I guess you can trade away Ferguson since he's really not going to be a major contributor in this team's title window (next 3/4 years)


It's an interesting dilemma. There's a lot of reasons to keep young talent: cheap contracts, brighter future (this is more important than most think), future asset (once he's gone OKC has nothing). But, Ferguson is probably 2-3 seasons away from being a significant contributor and this is a win-now team that doesn't want to waste Russ' prime.

Supposedly, there's been a lot of interest in Ferguson, but OKC is not taking calls on him.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 125 -  Golden State Warriors 105*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975549

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^^
Games like this are why I remain (mostly) an optimist.

----------


## Roger S

> ^^^^^^^
> Games like this are why I remain (mostly) an optimist.


Yep.... I think as long as we don't have to play Dallas or Sacramento in the first round of the playoffs. We may have a chance!  :Wink:

----------


## Urbanized

:Wink:

----------


## dankrutka

> Yep.... I think as long as we don't have to play Dallas or Sacramento in the first round of the playoffs. We may have a chance!


Let's also hope whoever we play has all their stars healthy. Because if we have to play their bench players we're bound to get torched.  :Wink:

----------


## Roger S

> Let's also hope whoever we play has all their stars healthy. Because if we have to play their bench players we're bound to get torched.


Definitely! My concern with GSW is half their team my be suspended during the playoffs due to technicals.... Then again maybe that's Kerr's strategy against us. Since we've lit them up both games this season!  :Wink:

----------


## Urbanized

Gotta say, I’d much rather have a team that routinely blows out other playoff-caliber teams - including those with superior talent and construction - but loses to inferior teams. Jordan among others had a rep for laying back during the regular season and then dominating in the playoffs. Maybe that’s what the Thunder is doing here haha...

----------


## Laramie

Watched a true leader in Russell Westbrook who swallowed his tongue after several brutal assaults by the Warriors.   He didn't complain, just acknowledged being hit.   The refs review half-time moments crafted by the NBA replay center, they undoubtedly saw the 2 assaults on Westbrook.

----------


## dcsooner

Thunder valued at 1.25B for 2018 ranking them 18th in the 30 team NBA. They obviouosly are valued higher than many significantly larger NBA cities. This compares to Memphis at No. 29 in value and N.O at No. 30. I am extremely proud of or team, ownership, management and fans.  Our season ticket renewal rate is stated to be around 95 %, I hope we will continue to support Oklahomas team, the organization is proving to be well run and profitable.

----------


## dankrutka

> Gotta say, I’d much rather have a team that routinely blows out other playoff-caliber teams - including those with superior talent and construction - but loses to inferior teams. Jordan among others had a rep for laying back during the regular season and then dominating in the playoffs. Maybe that’s what the Thunder is doing here haha...


As someone obsessed with MJ as a kid, I've never really hard that reputation for him. I mean, starting in '90-91 his teams won 61, 67, 57, 72, 69, and 62 games. I've actually seen a number of interviews where MJ talked about the importance of the regular season. And MJ competed for MVP nearly every year. What am I missing?

----------


## Urbanized

> As someone obsessed with MJ as a kid, I've never really hard that reputation for him. I mean, starting in '90-91 his teams won 61, 67, 57, 72, 69, and 62 games. I've actually seen a number of interviews where MJ talked about the importance of the regular season. And MJ competed for MVP nearly every year. What am I missing?


I thought about all of those high-win seasons before I typed it - and agree - but I do remember it being a point of discussion at one time, at the very least where he had one speed during the regular season and one during the playoffs. Not unusual for anyone, of course, but his playoff intensity was next-level. I think the high win totals - while obviously due in large part to his overwhelming talent - were also about team construction and coaching. By the time they were winning titles, they were just superior. So they didn't have to try too hard. Bad example maybe, because obviously the wins were still coming. But the point I was making was about being able to flip the switch and bury talented teams.

----------


## Thomas Vu

> Watched a true leader in Russell Westbrook who swallowed his tongue after several brutal assaults by the Warriors.   He didn't complain, just acknowledged being hit.   The refs review half-time moments crafted by the NBA replay center, they undoubtedly saw the 2 assaults on Westbrook.


Refs sucked on both sides.  No way each team should be shooting over 30 FT's.

----------


## Laramie

What's lost in the Oakland fog are the facts that the Thunder & Rockets  are 2 - 0 against the Warriors; the Nuggets are 2 - 1 against the Warriors.

Thunder 125 @ Warriors 105
Thunder 108 - Warriors 91

*Warriors'  13 losses:*

*Thunder 125 - 108*
*@Nuggets 115 - 108* 
@Jazz 125 - 106
*@Rockets 125 -106*
Clippers 125-106
Hornets 111 - 100
*Nuggets 96 - 81*
Sacramento 110 - 106
*@Thunder 108 - 91*
@Boston 92 - 88
Detroit 115 - 107
@Memphis 111 - 101
*Rockets 122 - 121*
IMO the Warriors could exhaust some valued energy in a match-up against any these 3 teams in the Western Conference playoffs.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 110 -  Memphis Grizzlies  92*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975585

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 121 - Memphis Grizzlies 114*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975607

----------


## Laramie

> Still, thats not to say these two are best friends or that Westbrook wont come at KD with the same vengeance Thunder Nation has witnessed in the previous two wins against the Warriors this season. Rather, its to say there is less vitriol between the pair given the passing of a full season since KDs departure.


Russell Westbrook, Durant relationship status remains topical:  https://thunderousintentions.com/201...-relationship/

Man, the last two meetings against the Warriors; Russell has put on a dominant game face.  IMO, you can see that Durant now knows he doesn't want to get under Westbrook's skin.  RW let it be known that KD doesn't want to go there with him.

----------


## Easy180

Not sure if a team has ever blown so many up 20+ leads in one season. Looking forward to Sat night!!

----------


## Anonymous.

Last time OKC blew this many leads and close games, they went to the WCF and took the greatest team of all time to 7 games.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 110 - Sacramento Kings 107*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975617

Russell Westbrook - 18th Triple-double;  wins the game on a dagger with 1 second left in the game.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 112 - Orlando Magic 105*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975649

----------


## dankrutka

It's long past time for Donovan to quit playing Ferguson. That's why you have a G League team. I think he's going to be a good player someday, but he's 19 and not ready now. Every lineup with him gets destroyed. Every game Donovan keeps playing him in this tight playoff race I lose a little more faith in him... Come at me, Urbanized!  :Wink: 

Donovan needs to give all of Ferguson's minutes to Huestis and Abrines and start fine tuning these lineups for the playoffs.

----------


## Anonymous.

Someone asked him about the questionable lineups last night. And his answer was basically something along the lines of he wants to keep everyone active and involved come playoff time. Seems like he wants to be able to switch out players based upon matchups. Which is basically how he was able to finesse the other coaches in 2016's playoff run. 

This seeding battle in the West is going to be insane.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^^^
Yep. All of the Donovan haters have completely forgotten ‘15-‘16, when the team seemed super clunky and everyone was giving his line-ups the thumbs-down... ...right up until the playoffs, when all was revealed and it became quite obvious he was pretty a pretty masterful coach and that the weird line-ups had been a part of the larger plan of evaluation and experience-building. He out-Popped Pop in the playoffs, and but for KD’s on-count defection during the WCF we’d have had a title.

That said, Dan, I don’t disagree that T-Ferg isn’t an NBA player yet. I think it’s a possibility that they believe he could be at least serviceable by Playoff time. They just have such a poor bench right now, last night’s performance notwithstanding.

----------


## dankrutka

> ^^^^^^^^
> Yep. All of the Donovan haters have completely forgotten ‘15-‘16, when the team seemed super clunky and everyone was giving his line-ups the thumbs-down... ...right up until the playoffs, when all was revealed and it became quite obvious he was pretty a pretty masterful coach and that the weird line-ups had been a part of the larger plan of evaluation and experience-building. He out-Popped Pop in the playoffs, and but for KD’s on-count defection during the WCF we’d have had a title.
> 
> That said, Dan, I don’t disagree that T-Ferg isn’t an NBA player yet. I think it’s a possibility that they believe he could be at least serviceable by Playoff time. They just have such a poor bench right now, last night’s performance notwithstanding.


Donovan outcoached Popovich and Kerr in 2015-2016. He was amazing. Last playoffs, he had some funky lineups that never worked out and he was outcoached against Houston. But, there is not a matchup or lineup where Ferguson is beneficial to this team. If we just didn't have anyone to absorb the minutes that would be one thing, but every stat and lineup suggests that Huestis and Abrines should be getting all those minutes. Huestis needs way more experience and time, and he's been vastly more effective as an individual and team defender. That's why sticking with Ferguson at this point is indefensible in my opinion. The Thunder aren't fighting for just position right now, they could miss the playoffs. It's time to start playing winning lineups and gearing up for the playoffs.

----------


## Laramie

Not so set on Ferguson being the recipient of more or less minutes; he's got to be tested, however you don't want to destroy his will.  

Ferguson has professional experience, sure he's 19, needs more meat on his bones.  It's Donovan's call to decide just how long you can stretch Ferguson--he's got to be ready in case another Thunder domino falls (injury).  Play him with the starters and the reserves--he's ready to have a break out moment.

Reminder of how Thunder fans are impatient;  we kept calling for a reduction in Andre Roberson's minutes, now we see the value of Dre's defensive prowess--despite his free throw ineptness.

----------


## Urbanized

Yeah, the obsession over trading Roberson has me convinced to take the opinions of the most outspoken Thunder fans with a grain of salt, including Donovan haters. Clearly the team and Donovan were seeing things in Roberson that the casual fan is just incapable of seeing. I believe the same is true of Donovan haters right now. They don't like and or don't understand what they are seeing on the court, and the only answer they have is fit throwing and to blame the coach, call for his head.

I felt like replacing Scott Brooks was a very reasoned process. Nobody really wanted to see him go - nice guy, great community member, players for the most part liked him, good cultural fit - but the reasons for making the change (mostly resistance to analytics use I think) proved to be pretty sound. I still believe Donovan is an excellent coach who is continuing to tinker. Last year is mostly an outlier because I think the handwriting was on the wall early that the entire season was about retaining Russ, with no real eye to championship contention. I think that explains some of the funky lineups; the talent just wasn't there. This year (I believe) is about putting a scare into a team or two with a deeper-than-expected run and a chance to bring back this core next year.

All of that said, I am not necessarily disagreeing with Dan about the need to start drastically limiting T-Ferg. And also for the record I'm not lumping Dan in with Donovan-haters.

----------


## Urbanized

By the way, I haven't seen anyone post this really great article on Carmelo - and by extension the rough patches and growth the team has experienced this season - but if it is true it pretty much confirms the stuff I was saying when everyone was ready to jump ship back in November-December. We just need some patience as a fan base.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...ccept-new-role

----------


## Laramie

Didn't see anyone behind Pachulia.   Recall the GSW's Nutcracker (Green), he claim that he kicked out his leg every time he goes up for a shot.  Watched him closely, you only see a kick out against players in his face.   If that were the case a number of his teammates should be singing soprano. 

If you've never had your nuts cracked just wait; it's not only painful, it's troubling to think about the potential damage.

If you've never had a solid musk ox looking-size person fall on you just wait; it can cause potential damage to any part of your body.

----------


## dankrutka

Big difference between the Ferguson & Roberson situations: The numbers always provided evidence that Roberson was valuable. Pretty much all metrics suggest that Ferguson tanks any lineup he’s in. I’m not giving up on Ferguson at all, but we need to move on from him for the rest of this season. OKC has a G-League team where plenty of developmental minutes are available.

----------


## Laramie

> Big difference between the Ferguson & Roberson situations: The numbers always provided evidence that Roberson was valuable. Pretty much all metrics suggest that Ferguson tanks any lineup hes in. Im not giving up on Ferguson at all, but we need to move on from him for the rest of this season. OKC has a G-League team where plenty of developmental minutes are available.


My concern with Ferguson, he came from a league that IMO was slightly above G-League status.   G-League is not going to present any challenges for Terrance.  Just might give him false confidence.

----------


## Laramie

.

*Oklahoma City 111 - Dallas Mavericks 110*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975665

----------


## Anonymous.

OKC with the ugliest win over supertank DAL.

The standing basically didn't change as everyone won except Spurs and probably Clippers, which should give some cushion for staying out of 9th.

But man we really need to get everyone flowing. 


Is Heustis getting abducted @ halftime? Jeez, for a while there in the second half we looked like we were the team trying to tank.

----------


## Laramie

Thunder could pick up Corey Brewer:




> Swingman Corey Brewer is likely to sign with the Oklahoma City Thunder upon clearing waivers Friday, league sources told ESPN.


Source: Adrian Wojnarowski - ESPN: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...d-corey-brewer

----------


## Laramie

.
*Report: Thunder and Corey Brewer agree to deal.* http://www.normantranscript.com/okla...f8e5718b6.html

Great, he's fast.  How fast is he(?):



Only NBA player to take 5 steps toward the basket and not get called for traveling.

Royce Young ESPN Staff Writer:

Corey Brewer is somewhat of a system fit for the Thunder, fitting their profile of length, size and defensive positional versatility. There's not another Andre Roberson out there, especially on the buyout market, but Brewer is someone that can realistically help.

----------


## kevin lee

We gave up 67 points in the first half to the Suns smh. Win or lose, I think we're at the point where this isn't funny anymore.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 124 - Phoenix Suns 116*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975679

----------


## Jake

All of the losses to awful teams early in the year is coming back to hurt the Thunder. Currently the 7th seed with Houston coming to town...they've won 15 straight.

Winning a playoff series has to be the goal. If they're 7th or 8th though, I don't think it's possible. What a disaster of a season.

----------


## chuck5815

> All of the losses to awful teams early in the year is coming back to hurt the Thunder. Currently the 7th seed with Houston coming to town...they've won 15 straight.
> 
> Winning a playoff series has to be the goal. If they're 7th or 8th though, I don't think it's possible. What a disaster of a season.


Seemed like we had really turned the corner there for a minute, but things have been an unmitigated disaster since Andre’s injury.

----------


## dankrutka

Doesn't look great right now, but if OKC can finish strong they can still get the 3 seed. No reason to concede that just yet. They're only one game out. But, yeah, on the flip side, OKC is only 2 games away from being out of the playoffs. Now that would be a nightmare, especially considering the money being spent.

I'm not sure what the upside for this team is in the playoffs. I could see them taking a step up, but the real question for this team is, what's the path to good defense? I'm just not sure with Melo and Russ out there. Every game is important now. At least it'll be an exciting finish.

----------


## Thomas Vu

If anybody is interested, I have a ticket to tomorrow's game vs the Rockets.  Just about any amount will work at this point if you're inclined to pay.  Trying to cut losses in order to sit with friends from out of town.

----------


## Thomas Vu

If it helps, sec 111, row L, seat 6.

----------


## Sirsteve

This has got to be one of the most frustrating seasons ever if only because of the potential and all the supposed firepower we have. Heres my take on this team and this season
1. Russell has regressed from last year 
2. We have no identity
3. Our defense is sub par
4. Our bench is even worse
5. Our coach while a very smart x's and o's guy cant seem to find the right mix or just maybe there isnt a right mix
6. We are way to inconsistent
7. last years team was better than this years and thats a hard pill to swallow
8. The frustration is starting to show on this  "team" and that can spell doom
9.  I never realized how important Roberson was to this teams defense and one has to wonder how different our record would be if he was still healthy
10. If this team somehow manages to muck this up and miss the playoffs....i see big changes  ahead with the front office or coaching or both not to mention certain players jumping ship.

----------


## Anonymous.

Well when HOU hits that many threes, no one is beating them.


OKC got lucky that Denver somehow lost to Dallas last night. Thunder need to win out this little homestand, especially against the Spurs. This will help pad the playoff chances as our schedule down the stretch is pretty brutal.

----------


## king183

> This has got to be one of the most frustrating seasons ever if only because of the potential and all the supposed firepower we have. Heres my take on this team and this season
> 1. Russell has regressed from last year 
> 2. We have no identity
> 3. Our defense is sub par
> 4. Our bench is even worse
> 5. Our coach while a very smart x's and o's guy cant seem to find the right mix or just maybe there isnt a right mix
> 6. We are way to inconsistent
> 7. last years team was better than this years and thats a hard pill to swallow
> 8. The frustration is starting to show on this  "team" and that can spell doom
> ...


Agree with most of this. The biggest issue, in my opinion, is that we have no team identity. It seems we have gone out every game and just winged it, hoping talent alone would win it for us. It doesn't seem like they have any interest in playing together as a single unit--and I don't understand it. 

Individual players put in inconsistent effort each game. Some nights Carmelo is trying hard, some nights it's like he doesn't care. Same applies to Russ, Adams, and George. The only person who seemed to be excited to play basketball last night was Corey Brewer.

----------


## Sirsteve

> Agree with most of this. The biggest issue, in my opinion, is that we have no team identity. It seems we have gone out every game and just winged it, hoping talent alone would win it for us. It doesn't seem like they have any interest in playing together as a single unit--and I don't understand it. 
> 
> Individual players put in inconsistent effort each game. Some nights Carmelo is trying hard, some nights it's like he doesn't care. Same applies to Russ, Adams, and George. The only person who seemed to be excited to play basketball last night was Corey Brewer.


Yes your right about the big three or big 4 if you count Carmelo...it seems like they are never on the same page on the same night. The thing that is so frustrating to me is you can see the potential and in some of the earlier games against the elite teams  you could swear your looking at a legit playoff team poised to make a run then you realize its fools gold and the reality of this team hits you and you want to throw the remote at the TV....LOL.  I wish i could put a truth serum in the coach and find out his real feelings.

----------


## king183

NBA_Math_2018-Mar-07.jpg

Melo is a liability, according to TPA.

----------


## SoonerDave

Went to the game last night, and let me tell you something - the most notable thing for me was the place was *dead*. The players. The crowd. Zero energy. 

I think this team knows it isn't going anywhere, the crowd knows it, and even when the score closed to within 5 or 6 once or twice, no one actually believed they were coming back to win that game. 

Houston's offense is a thing of beauty. The ball rotation, the teamwork, the obvious system of plays they use, and at least a semblance of defense. The Thunder has all but four of those elements. 

Bottom line? The Thunder are a few superstars plus a bunch of guys playing something not much above street ball. Seeing three guys in blue stand in the paint feeling the whoosh of James Harden go past them for the 25th time probably gave them windburn. It might not be so irritating if it weren't just the abject lack of _interest_ they seem to exhibit at the same time. If these guys have checked out, Presti better get on the phones - assuming ownership still lets him *have* a phone. The team I saw last night didn't deserve to be in the playoffs. 

Hate to be the downer, but this team doesn't have "it," they're not finding a "magic switch" to turn "it" on, and I'm not even sure the coach knows what "it" is.

Very depressing to watch.

----------


## Jake

It was painfully obvious last night which team was elite and which team wasn't.

I don't think Paul George is going to stay. Hope I'm wrong, but I think he's gone. If that's the case, that leaves this franchise in 8-5 seed purgatory for the foreseeable future. 

Call me crazy, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that OKC is going to have a Griffin/Detroit type of situation here in 2-3 years.

----------


## Sirsteve

And one more thing that just  eats at me:  When we acquired our team we were the darlings of the NBA and everything looked so rosy and the future looked so bright and it looked honestly like we had a chance to win 2 or 3 championships with that lineup.  And then the wheels slowly came off and you saw the departure of harden, the firing of Scott brooks, the Ninja move made by Durant and now those teams with our former players are the elite teams for the foreseeable future and we are now on the outside looking in and all the moves this team makes looks futile......just so frustrating!  We were going to be the golden state before they were but somehow we didnt make the right moves and they did everything right and this is where we are at now.

----------


## dankrutka

This season has been frustrating, but... I don't think this team has given up. Houston is really hard to guard and some of their layups are partly the result of OKC trying hard to take away something else (threes). They're an elite team. But I do think guys are trying. PG is just not making shots since the all-star break and that's been a huge problem. 

I'm not giving up on this team. There are good signs. I actually think Melo played his role well last night. He tried hard as the Rockets continually forced him into switches. He took the right shots. I just think Russ and PG, and they're capable, can play better. I also am still concerned with Donovan's lineups. I absolutely don't understand Ferguson getting minutes over Abrines. Patterson needs more of a role too. But I do think Donovan is trying to get OKC to take smart shots. But when things start to fall apart, Russ tends to veer from the plan.

----------


## Jake

To add to my earlier comment, I don't think OKC will miss the playoffs. While there's a logjam from 8-4, the other teams OKC is competing against also have tough schedules.

Also, while PG is probably going to leave, I think Presti has done a good job at GM overall. I think he has a good track record drafting and making deals that help the team out most of the time. 

So, while I think leaner times _may_ be ahead, I don't think the franchise is ruined or anything. I'm still going to support the team no matter what.

----------


## king183

I hope you're right, Dan, but I just don't see the commitment or energy in this team to play consistent team-ball. Perhaps the ASB worked as a reset and it's like we're back to the beginning of the season when we struggled and we're now about to hit our stride just as the playoffs begin.

----------


## Anonymous.

Donovan said in an interview today that against the Rockets the gameplan was not to switch on defense. Haha wtf. That is literally all the team did _the entire game_. So do they not care about what coach says or are they too lazy to fight over screens?

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 115 - Phoenix Suns 87*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/id/400975721

----------


## Anonymous.

Russ and crew played like their old selves last night. Loose, fun, and with energy on defense.

I know it is the tanking Suns, but it felt nice to not just barely scrape by with a W. We are tied with MIN (they have TB). And we play the Spurs on Saturday. If OKC can pull out that W, we will be in decent shape. Especially considering the Blazers play the Warriors tonight; however Steph hurt his ankle, so it will be up to the snake and donkey to pull out a W for us.

----------


## Laramie

Hope there's some light at the end of this tunnel:

The top 4 teams in the WC (Houston, GS, Portland & NO) all have current win streaks of 7 to 17 games.  From 5 thru 8; all of these teams struggle as they jockey for those 4 final WC positions:

Last 10 games (L10) last column of standings:

7.  Thunder  6-4
8.  Clippers 6-4
6.  T-Wolves 4-6
5.  Spurs 3-7
9.  Nuggets  6-4
X.  Jazz  8-2
Thunder control their own destiny.   Saturday's home game against the Spurs will be a must win.

NBA Full standings: http://www.espn.com/nba/standings

Minnesota & San Antonio have a brutal schedule with their games that remain.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 104  - San Antonio Spurs 94*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975736

----------


## dankrutka

The bench shot well, which always makes everything look better, but I loved Donovan’s rotations. The bench guys looked confident. Corey Brewer won’t keep shooting this well, but he’s been great thus far. His hustle and cutting are what OKC needed.

----------


## Laramie

*Steven 'Stonewall' Adams injury update:*




Probably won't know anything until Monday.

Just hope it's nothing serious.  Let's pray, hope & wish for the best for our Big Kiwi.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 106 - Sacramento Kings 101*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=40097574
Westbrook: 20th Triple double this season.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 119 - Atlanta Hawks 107*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975753
Westbrook:  Triple doubles:  21st this season &100th career triple double - 32 points, 12 assists, 12 rebounds.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 121 - Los Angeles Clippers 113*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975778
Russell Westbrook:  Triple doubles: 22nd this season & 101st career triple double - 16 points, 11 assists, 10 rebounds.

----------


## Laramie

> Let’s face it, this scribe wasn’t exactly jumping up and down for joy over his selection as the Thunder’s choice buyout candidate.  Yet, there is no denying his effect on the squad. Fact– the Thunder are 5-2 since his arrival and there is palpable energy when he hits the court.


*Thunder In the news: Is Corey Brewer OKC’s lucky charm(?):* https://thunderousintentions.com/201...c-lucky-charm/

----------


## Urbanized

Might have been a bit early to call this a disaster of a season.

----------


## Laramie

.




*Oklahoma City Thunder 132 - Toronto Raptors 125*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gam...0975792http://
Russell Westbrook: Triple doubles: 23rd this season & 102nd career triple double - 37 points, 14 assists, 13 rebounds.

Thunder on a 6 game win streak; snapped Toronto's streak in Air Canada Center to 11 games.

----------


## Laramie

*Moses parts the Red Sea!*

----------


## Celebrator

Russ and Steve you made the nation proud today.  Take that Canada.

----------


## Laramie

Excepts from Raptors' fans posts . . .




> Gotta admit, that OKC+6.5 makes me think were gonna have some home town officials tonight!
> Melo stabbing the side of his head with his cheeto-dust covered fingers is repulsive.
> how come nobody on our team can get to the rim for easy bucket like westbrook
> OKC is a bad matchup for the Raptorswould not be confident in a playoff series against them.
> OKC came to play.
> OKC will not continue this shooting especially Melo.  Everyone chil
> Are these guys hungover ?
> Raptors look big time hung over
> GO UNDER RUSSEL AND ADAMNS SCREENS HOLY **** I DONT UNDERSTAND
> ...


Raptors Meltdown! 3.18.18:  http://thunderdigest.com/2018/03/18/...tdown-3-18-18/

----------


## dankrutka

> Might have been a bit early to call this “a disaster of a season.”


If you learn anything from watching full NBA seasons, it's not jump to conclusions too early. It's a long season. Things change, teams change. OKC's 2015-2016 run in the playoffs almost came out of nowhere as they'd never played the lineups or styles that succeeded in the playoffs. Who would haver ever thought that Corey freakin' Brewer would solve OKC's lineup problems? (Then again, we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that Corey Brewer will keep working like he is now...)

But, yeah, this team has been fun to watch since the Brewer pick up.

----------


## Urbanized

Despite all of the (admittedly frustrating) ups and downs this season - which caused an unbelievable amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth here, on Twitter, elsewhere, talk of a disaster of a season, calls for Donovan to be fired, calls for Presti to be fired, calls for stars to be traded, calls for Roberson to be traded or benched (we saw what losing him did) after all of that armchair owner/GM talk, *the Thunder currently has the sixth-best record in the league*.

Regarding Brewer: everyone is talking about his scoring, which has obviously helped over the past six games. But honestly I havent felt like it has to be maintained at that clip, which it wont, because his current output is unsustainable, ESPECIALLY his shooting percentage. I think the main thing he has brought is running the floor, creating disruption, and providing energy to an offense that was mostly reliant on Russ alone to bring energy.

Im not sure in ten seasons Ive ever seen another Thunder player who consistently got down the floor ahead of Russ fast break. Not saying hes faster (impossible, probably), just saying that he anticipates the break, gets out early and down the floor. This provides Russ so much more room to work during the break. And honestly, just giving Russ energy to feed off of is so important.

Historically in my opinion bad Russ only emerges when others arent trying. He gets fed up with teammates who stand around and just call for the ball or simply act like spectators. KD was a prime example of this. Plain and simple he just wants teammates who play hard and work to disrupt. Roberson was that on defense of course but also on offense. Even with the lousy shooting he was still running, cutting, etc. Brewer is bringing the same level of activity and mayhem.

Casual observers - including many in sports media - confuse bad Russ with Takeover Russ. We see less and less of Bad Russ these days, even in losses, and its no coincidence that he almost totally went away when KD departed. Bad Russ is frustrated Russ, being forced to do it all himself because his teammates disappeared on him (which Durant did constantly via being double or even triple teamed, not fighting to get open, not moving without the ball).

Takeover Russ is the guy we saw yesterday afternoon, and who weve seen often the past couple of seasons. Takeover Russ appears when all of his teammates (or at least some/most) are working hard, moving without the ball, defending, rebounding, causing disruption, providing legit scoring options. Takeover Russ turns that situation into a slice and dice and makes opponents look silly and flat-footed. Takeover Russ only shows up when hes required to be the deciding factor in an otherwise hard-fought game. Takeover Russ is a very, VERY good Russ. The best thing Brewer can do is enable Takeover Russ.

Regarding 15-16 and Donovans lineups - Ive said this here and to anyone else who will listen - it became painfully obvious during that WCF run that all of those wonky lineups were experiments and tinkering that allowed him to know his team fully and to out-Pop Pop, and to outcoach Kerr (which he absolutely did). This wasnt apparent UNTIL THE PLAYOFFS, which made it seem like the run came out of nowhere, but it really didnt, once we all understood what he had been doing all season. Thats why the constant bitching about lineups this year has driven me crazy, as if nobody remembers that run, which was during Donovans FIRST SEASON.

Donovan is a VERY good coach. We just needed players to gel, accept roles, make updates to their (sometimes log-held) style of play, set aside alpha-dog aspirations, develop chemistry, and without question Brewers spark has been important (though same results were happening right before Robes was hurt).

One more thing regarding 15-16: that team - that frustrating, wonky team with underperforming superstar talent, a bench that wasnt especially deep and weird lineups all season - that team SHOULD have won the WC title and maybe the Finals. This became apparent when the real team (and Donovans excellent coaching) emerged during the playoffs. Other than KDs existential conflict/crisis (I can bore for hours on this topic) and his head being elsewhere, it WOULD have. Bad Russ only showed up because he knew KD was checked out. Might not have know why, but he knew something was up. So people can say Russ failed in that WCF also, but Id only refer them to my Bad Russ vs Takeover Russ analysis.

Bad Russ was in large part a creation of Kevin Durant. There are no such head cases among this teams group of All-Stars.

Not looking to make too many Bold Pedictions yet, but playoffs is certainly not bold. FiveThirtyEight.com has apparently crunched numbers and calls it a 99% certainty. Even before Brewers emergence - and I know numbers were iffy - I think talk of them MISSING playoffs was a bit extreme/silly. But now I think even a first-round exit would be unlikely, due to the way they seem to be coming together at a perfect time. Id be disappointed if they dont at least make it to around 2, and I think WCF is eminently doable. If they can make a decent run, I think signing PG is pretty likely. Who knows, after that.

----------


## Bellaboo

My inside source at the Thunder thinks PG will re-sign long term. Let's hope so. This guy told me 2 years ago during the playoffs that he thought Durant was 60/40 to sign again but did have some doubt that he would.

----------


## Urbanized

Yeah, I really do think the Thunder is PG’s best option, and I’m trying to look at that not as a Thunder homer. If he feels good about the direction, it makes a ton of sense. I don’t think he’s looking to be the alpha on an also-ran or a rebuild project, and other than a jump to GSW - which I don’t think he’s weak-minded enough to contemplate - he stands as good a chance to win a title here, where he is already integrated, knows the team, coach, owners, culture as pretty much anywhere else.

I’ve been thinking about the cap issue and my knowledge regarding contracts and cap space is somewhat limited. Just know that the Thunder would have to break the bank and pay insane luxury tax to keep it constituted roughly the same as it currently stands. So my question is this to someone who knows better - or if not I’ll go research it - could Carmelo’s people approach the Thunder with an offer to opt out next season and sign something like a multi-year deal with most of it backloaded and guaranteed?

Seems like that would me a nice guarantee for Melo, whose marketability is waning. I wouldn’t blame him for just riding out next year’s fat player option, but it wouldn’t help in signing PG and not sure he’d get much anywhere else for subsequent years.

----------


## king183

> I’ve been thinking about the cap issue and my knowledge regarding contracts and cap space is somewhat limited. Just know that the Thunder would have to break the bank and pay insane luxury tax to keep it constituted roughly the same as it currently stands. So my question is this to someone who knows better - or if not I’ll go research it - could Carmelo’s people approach the Thunder with an offer to opt out next season and sign something like a multi-year deal with most of it backloaded and guaranteed?
> 
> Seems like that would me a nice guarantee for Melo, whose marketability is waning. I wouldn’t blame him for just riding out next year’s fat player option, but it wouldn’t help in signing PG and not sure he’d get much anywhere else for subsequent years.


Yes, this is a great point. In fact, I think it's probably the Thunder's best course of action. It's done all the time in the NBA, where they negotiate with a player to opt-out of an expensive one or two year contract, but agree to resign him for longer term, thereby guaranteeing him more money and saving the organization a ton. 

By the way, Urbanized, I love the post above on the "Bad Russ" meme. It's spot on and captures the nuances most NBA fans do not bother to think about when analyzing Russ.

----------


## Anonymous.

From what I have found. Most NBA fans love Russell.

Rockets and Warriors fans are the only ones that seem to hate Russ/OKC.

----------


## Roger S

> Despite all of the (admittedly frustrating) ups and downs this season - which caused an unbelievable amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth here, on Twitter, elsewhere, talk of a “disaster of a season,” calls for Donovan to be fired, calls for Presti to be fired, calls for stars to be traded, calls for Roberson to be traded or benched (we saw what losing him did) after all of that armchair owner/GM talk, *the Thunder currently has the sixth-best record in the league*.


As one of those that said I was reserving any complaining about this team until after the All-Star break....... Still no complaints from me.

I don't know if it's Brewer being familiar with Donovan or what made him click with the team so fast but I am really liking what I'm seeing from this team at this point in the season.

At the start of the season I was just hoping to get a playoff spot. Now we are battling for a Division Title and flirting with home court advantage to start the playoffs.... And I'm not naive enough to say we will win the conference or the title but I'd say our odds are trending in that direction more than away from it.

----------


## Urbanized

> ...By the way, Urbanized, I love the post above on the "Bad Russ" meme. It's spot on and captures the nuances most NBA fans do not bother to think about when analyzing Russ.


Thanks. These are things I have thought for years; almost as long as the Thunder has been here.

----------


## Teo9969

> . . .
> One more thing regarding ‘15-‘16: that team - that frustrating, wonky team with underperforming superstar talent, a bench that wasn’t especially deep and weird lineups all season - that team SHOULD have won the WC title and maybe the Finals. This became apparent when the real team (and Donovan’s excellent coaching) emerged during the playoffs. Other than KD’s existential conflict/crisis (I can bore for hours on this topic) and his head being elsewhere, it WOULD have. Bad Russ only showed up because he knew KD was checked out. Might not have know why, but he knew something was up. *So people can say “Russ failed in that WCF also,” but I’d only refer them to my Bad Russ vs Takeover Russ analysis.*
> 
> . . .


Anybody who says that is a moron. Russ literally won us Game 1 of that series in the 3rd quarter, and Games 3 and 4 were won by everybody but Russ and KD.

At no point did KD ever show up on the offensive side of the ball in that series (to be fair, that was the first and only series he ever played a higher level of defense for the Thunder). He shot something like 28% from 3.

Not Russ's *best* series, but without him we would have been out in 5, instead of going back to Oakland with a 3-1 advantage.

----------


## Urbanized

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/3...rence-playoffs

----------


## dankrutka

I don't think there is any chance Melo opts out of his deal, but if he does opt out then I think it would be to leave. That's probably best for OKC in my opinion. Melo is due to make $27 million next season and he'd probably only get around $8-10 tops on the free market (which is still an overpay) so there's just no incentive for him to do it.

Even if Melo opts out (which I'd prefer), OKC would still be over the cap and have no money to sign anyone. Even if PG opted out too, OKC wouldn't have much money as they've got $90 million committed to 8 players already. Resigning Grant and some minimum vets like Felton and Brewer would be best case probably. Russ' enormous contract will make it hard financially on OKC going forward.

----------


## Roger S

> Even if Melo opts out (which I'd prefer),


Agreed. This is the only piece of the current puzzle I wouldn't mind losing.... Well and Singler but is he really a piece of the puzzle?

----------


## Urbanized

If you read the link I posted last night from The Ringer it has some interesting info/perspective on Carmelo and some reasons to believe hes still a very important piece of the puzzle. Here it is again: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/3...rence-playoffs

----------


## Bellaboo

> *From what I have found. Most NBA fans love Russell.*
> 
> Rockets and Warriors fans are the only ones that seem to hate Russ/OKC.


Back in January the Mrs and I was walking around Manuel Antonio National Park in Costa Rica. We ran into a man with a Thunder shirt on and naturally we struck up a conversation. He was from Iowa and said he loves them because of Russ. He had never been to an NBA game but was fascinated with the competitive intensity Russell plays with.

----------


## dankrutka

> If you read the link I posted last night from The Ringer it has some interesting info/perspective on Carmelo and some reasons to believe he’s still a very important piece of the puzzle. Here it is again: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/3...rence-playoffs


I read the article and totally agree with it. But that doesn’t mean he’s worth it going forward as he continues to age. If he wins OKC a title then I’ll change my mind. Lol.

----------


## king183

A disgusting, unacceptable loss against a depleted Boston team. Make your damn free throws.

----------


## dcsooner

> A disgusting, unacceptable loss against a depleted Boston team. Make your damn free throws.


Lack of defense. Marcus Morris  for 3!  Carmelo or George should take last shot.  Bad loss to depleted team.

----------


## king183

> Lack of defense. Greg Monroe for 3!  Carmel or George take last shot.  Bad loss to depleted team.


Marcus Morris hit the 3. If Monroe had hit the 3, I would have thrown my tv out the window, which I almost did anyway when Anthony missed both free throws.

----------


## Jake

OKCs best game of the season was against Toronto. It's only fitting that they'd follow it up immediately with their most heartbreaking of the season.

----------


## Anonymous.

Luckily Portland lost. Would have been sitting really nicely if OKC had just hit free throws and we could go into the Blazers game with a chance to make up huge ground on them.

----------


## Laramie

> Luckily Portland lost. Would have been sitting really nicely if OKC had just hit free throws and we could go into the Blazers game with a chance to make up huge ground on them.


This was a RAGGEDY game with reckless play.  There's enough blame to go around.   Melo can't make a free throw down the stretch; as a team free throws (19 of 29 for 65.5%) are our Achilles heel.  Thunder shouldn't have been in this situation with a Celtic team missing key players.

Free throws:

Thunder:  19 of 29 for 65.5%
Celtics:  15 of 16 for 93.8%
Missed opportunity to gain ground on Portland (lost to Rockets 115-111) for the 3rd seed.

----------


## Jersey Boss

So what did Ferguson contribute for his minutes? Why does Adams get shut out in the second half? Why does this team take Boston lightly?

----------


## Jersey Boss

Free throw percentage of NBA teams. The Thunder are second to the last, being closer to last than to the team just above them.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/free-throw-pct

----------


## Urbanized

Reversal of fortune. Spent years among the best in the league.

----------


## Bellaboo

Well, it should have been a better outcome -

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ner-vs-thunder

----------


## Urbanized

Gotta be close to a half-dozen L2M reports at this point which acknowledge missed calls that would have resulted in Ws for the Thunder. Unbelievable.

That said, no way should they have let Boston come back on them.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 105 - Miami Heat 99*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975830

----------


## Northwestsider

Hey guys refugee from (the soon to be shutdown) Landthieves here.

My handle over there was SG1 and I mainly only posted in the Thunder thread.

Anyway, don't know what the temperature is here but me and a few others are pretty disappointed in how the season has gone, think the Thunder have underachieved and it's time for a coaching change unless Billy pulls a rabbit out of his hat in the playoffs.

----------


## OkiePoke

Eh, I would like to remind everyone what Billy did 2 years ago. It seemed as he was always tinkering and when the playoffs came, he showed what was up his sleeve. I believe he will do great, until he doesn't. That won't happen until post-season.

----------


## Urbanized

They’re currently 4th seed in the West, better over the past 10 than GSW, probably have one of the top 2-3 records in the league since December (though I don’t have numbers to back it up) have shown the ability to beat pretty much every other elite team (and soundly at that). They were coming together in a pretty incredible fashion until Roberson was hurt, then dipped, but have shown great resurgence and energy since the addition of Brewer. Also, when you take even an unbiased look at league L2M reports over the season it’s aguable that their record should include 4-6 more wins.

Also, OkiePoke’s Donovan assessment is spot-on; his critics seem to have completely forgotten how ‘15-‘16 looked right up until he out coached Pop and Kerr and might even have a first-season ring without a KD meltdown (which might not have even been a real “meltdown”).

I’m not sure what people’s expectations were, but I think a lot of them were unrealistic. Was everyone expecting a championship this year? Personally I felt like getting to at least the second round of the playoffs and finding a way to secure PG13 and possible championship contention next year was the best we could ask for. That is totally on track right now, and owing to the current GSW injury situation a WCF appearance is even still highly attainable.

----------


## OKC Guy

> Eh, I would like to remind everyone what Billy did 2 years ago. It seemed as he was always tinkering and when the playoffs came, he showed what was up his sleeve. I believe he will do great, until he doesn't. That won't happen until post-season.





> Eh, I would like to remind everyone what Billy did 2 years ago. It seemed as he was always tinkering and when the playoffs came, he showed what was up his sleeve. I believe he will do great, until he doesn't. That won't happen until post-season.


I am totally in agreeement with this.  Billy is a mad scientist in reg season and what he does is plays players in certain situations to get a look.  Fans may not realize the look is he doing its mostly hidden.  It may not even be the player we think it is.  If the other team has a certain style of player he may try things to see how defense responds.

Then in playoffs he has a massive data base of every situation and can imsert players at key moments.  It worked great 2 years aog.  Even vs Rox last year the starters outscored Rox starters yet we were undermanned.  

When you look at the different rosters Billy has had in his 3 years its really hard to start over every year.  He has never had any consistency with rosters due to things not in his control.

Billy knows he is graded on playoffs not the reg season.  He takes some losses in reg season due to needing to get some players key minutes in key moments.  Yet those moments are valuable in playoffs.  I really do believe he treats reg season as a time to learn and experiment.  

We shall soon see.  We need PG to start playing better.  Melo needs fo shoot better.  Felton is the best FA signing we ever made.  Brewer is a spark of energy too.  And Adams is really getting better every day.  

With GS injuries possibly carrying over to playoffs if we can perform at high level we can go far.

----------


## Jake

Tough loss tonight. It was the last chance OKC had at getting the 3 seed. I had OKC as the 4th seed to start the season, so it's not way too big of a deal to me. The team actually played pretty well and kept it close considering pretty much all of its stars played terribly (even though PG has been bad since the All-Star break)

The problem is that Jerami Grant is better than Carmelo Anthony. Yet, Melo won't come off the bench and costs like 3x as much. Grant should have been in to end the game, yet Melo _had_ to end the game because he's still considered part of the Big 3 for some reason. I can't really even get angry at Donovan for not switching them out because I assume Melo would throw a fit if he didn't play at the end. 

It's too bad, it puts the team in a really weird spot. I genuinely would rather sign Grant than Melo next season. But Melo will most likely opt-in and we won't be able to sign Grant. :/

----------


## dankrutka

I thought OKC would compete with Houston for the 2-seed. No one knew Houston would be as good as they are... but by almost all measures, OKC has underachieved this season. For example, is there any reason for Portland to be better than OKC? I don't think they're more talented. I saw few preseason predictions that had OKC winning the same number of games as last season, which is what we're headed for. So, by most measures, OKC has underachived. 

Donovan had a great postseason in 2015-2016. He deserves credit. Donovan had a terrible postseason last season. He could never figure out lineups and he deserves blame. Continuing to play Semaj last season is indefensible. Oladipo should have taken over that role. That's my biggest beef with Donovan that he sometimes struggles identifying effective lineups in my opinion. He stubbornly sticks with players and lineups when data shows they don't work. Donovan continues to play Ferguson over Huestis (and Abrines) even though every indicator suggests it hurts the team. On the whole, I think Donovan is an average NBA coach, which is fine. You don't go and fire him for slightly underachieving unless you've got someone clearly better (i.e., Pop, Carlisle, Stevens, maybe Kerr). But if this team is out in the first round then that's a real disappointment that can only be overcome if Donovan is part of the reason PG signs with OKC. Having said all that, this season isn't over so we'll see if OKC can get a decent seed and turn it up in the playoffs.

----------


## dankrutka

Melo has to hit threes to have any value. He's bad at defense and it's a disaster when he takes twos. The hope has always been the Melo is more suited for the playoffs. But, for whatever reason (e.g., role, age), Melo's game has fallen off a cliff this season.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 105 - Portland Trailblazers 108* 

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975846
Free throws:  Paul George 8-8,  Jeremy Grant 7-8  OKC team free throws: 23 - 28/   82.1%
Rebounds:  Portland 49  OKC 39  *+10*   Trailblazers win series:  4-0

@Portland 103-99
OKC  117-106
@Portland  108-100
OKC  108-105

----------


## Urbanized

Yep. Terrible night for Melo, specifically.

----------


## Northwestsider

This was coaching malpractice tonight.

Gotta get Billy out of here.

And bring in JVG or I think Chauncey Billups will make a heck of a coach, maybe the next Kerr.

But Billy has to go.

----------


## kswright29

> Yep. Terrible night for Melo, specifically.


33 minutes, 6 points. Gimme back Kanter and Dougie.

----------


## Celebrator

> Yep. Terrible night for Melo, specifically.


He missed several CRITICAL shots this last week.  He has GOT to be better.

----------


## Laramie

> He missed several CRITICAL shots this last week.  He has GOT to be better.


Let's hope so.   Anthony use to be clutch against the Thunder when he was with the Nuggets; hope he gets his mojo back.

Put this loss behind us; move on: 

Thu, Mar 29 @San Antonio 7:00 PM
Fri, Mar 30	 vs Denver 7:00 PM ... Last back-to-back this season.

Sun, Apr 1	@New Orleans  5:00 PM

Tue, Apr 3	vs Golden State 7:00 PM

Sat, Apr 7	@Houston 7:30 PM

Mon, Apr 9	 @Miami  6:30 PM

Wed, Apr 11  vs Memphis  7:00 PM

----------


## Anonymous.

Why is Grant not getting Melo's crunch minutes? Grant was on fire and getting to the FT line, and Melo was building brick houses. Is Donovan scared to bench Melo???

Well since it looks like we are going to lose several more games in the next couple weeks. I guess there is silver lining to get the 7th seed and battle the snake without Curry.

----------


## dankrutka

I know everyone thinks it’s obvious to bench Melo for Grant, but there are serious chemistry risks too. Melo is a lockerroom leader who has probably never been benched in his life. When you’re a superstar for over a decade, it’s not easy to shift mentally to a lesser role. Grant should get those minutes, but egos are part of the game. That’s part of the equation. And I’m not saying Donovan should keep Melo no matter what. Im just saying it’s complicated.

Also, I had no problem with the shots Melo took. Those threes are what we want him to take. It just looks bad when none of them go in.

----------


## Urbanized

Agree 100%. These simplistic bench Melo or fire Donovan statements bug me to no end. Fire Donovan and what..? Interim coach? Youre calling the season over? Theyre fourth place in the West. They have the seventh best record in the league. 23 teams would gladly trade places with them. Golden State is in trouble. The Thunder is actually BETTER positioned right now than I expected.

I have yet to hear a Donovan hater or Melo hater articulate what they expected this year thats significantly better than what we have right now. Thats because they know how dumb it would sound if they said championship. Literally NOBODY thought that was happening this year, and yet, it is STILL in front of them, if youre a dreamer.

Melo and PG have both had frustrating seasons. Also, both have accepted dramatically different roles. Especially Melo. I hear people dogging him saying stuff like same old Melo and it makes me wonder if theyve ever seen him play before. Whether it meshes or not, props to the dude for working to mesh. And yes, while I agree that Id like to see more minutes for Grant, Dan is right about the chemistry part, and I think this team loves Melo, a la Perk.

And did Grant have a hotter hand last night? Yes. But you dont bench a hall of fame player for minute-to-minute game feel. Hindsight is 20/20. If you give me the choice again right now of who I want to take an open three pointer game winning (or tying) shot for the Thunder, Im STILL getting the ball to Carmelo over Grant, shooting slump be damned. If he hits that shot hes a hero, the Thunder is sliding into third seed, and this discussion isnt eleven happening.

Besides, last nights loss wasnt about Melos missed shots. It was rebounding. Or lack thereof.

----------


## Anonymous.

Well this week has pretty much gone perfectly for OKC in terms of standings. Everyone behind us has blown it just like we did against POR and BOS. We have miraculously maintained 4th while sitting idle.

I think we have two scheduled losses remaining (pelicans and rockets). If we just win the others, I think we are a lock for 4th. Or if we beat the Pels and lose a different game, we are still good.
The only scenario I see us getting jumped is if the Jazz either win out or lose 1, and we lose more than those 2.

Aldridge got hurt last night and the Pels have a harder schedule than us and still have to play us.
GSW is riddled with injuries and probably still will be by Tuesday.

----------


## Jake

"Welcome to Los Angeles, Paul."

----------


## dankrutka

> Welcome to Los Angeles, Paul.


Huh?

----------


## Roger S

> Huh?


Just ignore it.... You'll be better off.

----------


## Thomas Vu

It'd be funny if that happened.  Kuzma is having a great rookie year and has more upside.  

Although the ultimate for me would still be having the Ball family assemble in LA and the Lakers continuing to do poorly.

----------


## kevin lee

We suck!!

----------


## OkiePoke

Would have been nice to have Melo get a look in OT.

----------


## dcsooner

> We suck!!


Pretty much☹

----------


## OKCRT

> Pretty much☹


It appears that it might be time to tear it down and rebuild. This team just doesn't have IT.

----------


## dankrutka

The Thunder are losing a lot of close games. While it’s hard to watch, it bodes a lot better for their actual abilities then if they were getting blown out. This is really the same team we’ve had all year and still doesn’t mean we couldn’t win a first round series.

----------


## SoonerDave

> The Thunder are losing a lot of close games. While its hard to watch, it bodes a lot better for their actual abilities then if they were getting blown out. This is really the same team weve had all year and still doesnt mean we couldnt win a first round series.


Appreciate that optimism, but three stars like PG, RW, and Melo shouldn't be losing at home to Denver in a critical playoff-relevant game.

----------


## dankrutka

> Appreciate that optimism, but three stars like PG, RW, and Melo shouldn't be losing at home to Denver in a critical playoff-relevant game.


Sure, I agree, but giving up on the team for losing by 1 to a good team doesn’t make sense. This loss wasn’t in the top 10 worse losses this season. It’s not good, but this game to game shifting of opinions from we’re-great to we’re-awful doesn’t make sense. This game didn’t change my opinion of this team. We’re likely a mid-seed that can win in the first round.

----------


## Jake

How many games this year have turned into losses almost entirely based on this team's inability to shoot free throws?

----------


## Thomas Vu

> Sure, I agree, but giving up on the team for losing by 1 to a good team doesn’t make sense. This loss wasn’t in the top 10 worse losses this season. It’s not good, but this game to game shifting of opinions from we’re-great to we’re-awful doesn’t make sense.


How dare you bring logic to a fan thread!

----------


## Sirsteve

> Sure, I agree, but giving up on the team for losing by 1 to a good team doesnt make sense. This loss wasnt in the top 10 worse losses this season. Its not good, but this game to game shifting of opinions from were-great to were-awful doesnt make sense. This game didnt change my opinion of this team. Were likely a mid-seed that can win in the first round.


Yeah but the problem is they should not be a middle of the pack type team especially with all of this talent they have. Last years team with only Westbrook as the super star we were 43-32 this year we are 44-33 and that is basically the same record. Hardly seems like an improvement with all the money we shelled out for these so called superstars. You are what your record says you are and this is a team that will be lucky to get of the first round and if they don't start winning soon they might be out of the playoffs.  Contrary to my post im a huge thunder fan but this is the most disappointing and frustrating season i have witnessed.  And i posted way back very early in the season ( Nov 9th ) that this team was in trouble and it would be a long and frustrating season ) and that they were a bunch of all-stars but no team and i still stand by that to this day.

----------


## dankrutka

Right. We’ve known what this team is for months. Nothing new recently. My point was just that jumping ship now doesn’t make sense. I still think this team is potentially dangerous in the playoffs, but they need a good draw. We’ll see...

----------


## Sirsteve

> Right. Weve known what this team is for months. Nothing new recently. My point was just that jumping ship now doesnt make sense. I still think this team is potentially dangerous in the playoffs, but they need a good draw. Well see...


I would like to agree with that and nothing would make me happier if they do indeed make the playoffs and that they are built for it and they turn a switch on and make a run. But  right now im a bit nervous with the 3 game slide and a road game at a very hungry pelicans team that is trying to improve their seeding. One thing that is perhaps in the thunders favor is that the upcoming  games against Houston and Golden state may not mean much to them and they wont have all the starters playing.  Time will tell!!!

----------


## Roger S

And if we had back the 6 games we lost to bad officiating. This conversation doesn’t happen.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder   109 - New Orleans  Pelicans 104*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975896

Westbrook:  24th triple double.

----------


## Anonymous.

But seriously. What happened to PG during the Allstar weekend??

----------


## dankrutka

^^^
PG has been really inconsistent. Him and Melo were awful last night. Obviously, those two need to be better for this team to do anything in the playoffs...  Again, as grim as everything looks now, there is still reason to believe that they could turn it on in the playoffs. It's pretty sad because I have no complaints about the rotations or shots last night, but aside from Russ, no one made anything. 

It would be interesting to see if OKC could push the Warriors minus Curry in the first round. I think it's possible. But I'd probably rather just get the 4, 5, or 6 seed and try to get the Rockets in the second round still (assuming OKC can advance, which is not a safe assumption).

----------


## Anonymous.

Magic number is 2. OKC is guaranteed the playoffs if we win 2 of our last 3.

However, if we drop 2 - we are @ the mercy of others. We lose tie breakers with most of the teams we would be tied with in this scenario. We need Denver and Clippers to lose as much as possible.

I honestly am on board with drawing Warriors in round 1. I know we will likely get crushed, but if this team has any chance to go deep in post-season - then playing without Curry is definitely the time you want GSW.

Drawing Rockets in round 1 is likely going to be us getting swept.

----------


## Jersey Boss

Magic # would be 2 if OKC had the tie breaker with Denver. They don't. Magic number is 3
Interesting also that the Pacers have a better record with 3 games left.

----------


## Anonymous.

^ Edit

Denver and Minnesota play each other twice in these last 4 games. Therefore it is impossible for both of those teams be ahead of OKC. Denver is likely the odd man out considering their remaining games other than playing MIN twice is POR and LAC.

So if MIN beats DEN twice, OKC is in with 2 wins.
If DEN beats MIN twice, OKC is in with 2 wins because it would put us with one more win than MIN.

It is crazy how all of these teams battling for these spots in the West are scheduled against each other for these last 3-4 games.

OKC just needs two Ws to at least get the 8th spot.

----------


## dcsooner

Better to miss the playoffs with this  team. Avoid embarrassment

----------


## Jersey Boss

^^^^     It might be better long term to miss the playoffs. If they miss the playoffs they keep their draft pick. If they limp in to the playoffs, the draft pick goes to Minnesota.

----------


## dankrutka

Missing the playoffs would be a disaster far worse than losing a mid-1st pick. OKC definitely wants to make the playoffs and is still very likely going to make it. 

And, missing the playoffs to avoid embarrassment... *face palm emoji*

----------


## d-usa

That's like saying "we should lose $100, to avoid loosing $50".

----------


## Jersey Boss

^^^ I'm missing this analogy?

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Missing the playoffs would be a disaster far worse than losing a mid-1st pick. OKC definitely wants to make the playoffs and is still very likely going to make it. 
> 
> And, missing the playoffs to avoid embarrassment... *face palm emoji*


Why would missing the playoffs be far worse? Why do believe this team this team can "turn it on for the playoffs"?

----------


## d-usa

Because making the playoffs, and then getting kicked out the first round, is still more success than not making the playoffs to begin with. 

Even a 1st round sweep against us still results in money for the team, money for the businesses in Oklahoma City, and more importantly more playoff experience for every player on our roster. The playoffs are just a whole other experience for players and coaches and support staff, and it's better to get that experience while getting our rears handed to us than it would be to not have that experience for next year.

----------


## Urbanized

100% this.

----------


## Anonymous.

Spurs lost again last night! Thank you Lakers!

This puts us back in solid position to grab the 4th spot. This last slew of games for the West traffic jam is going to be insane. Clippers and Nuggets are barely holding onto slipping in, and they are pitted against playing the same teams they are trying to knock out.

Spurs have to play POR and NOP. Jazz have to play Clippers, Lakers, Warriors, and Trailblazers.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> ^ Edit
> 
> Denver and Minnesota play each other twice in these last 4 games. Therefore it is impossible for both of those teams be ahead of OKC. Denver is likely the odd man out considering their remaining games other than playing MIN twice is POR and LAC.
> 
> So if MIN beats DEN twice, OKC is in with 2 wins.
> If DEN beats MIN twice, OKC is in with 2 wins because it would put us with one more win than MIN.
> 
> It is crazy how all of these teams battling for these spots in the West are scheduled against each other for these last 3-4 games.
> 
> OKC just needs two Ws to at least get the 8th spot.


Good catch, and thanks for figuring it out.

----------


## dankrutka

> Why would missing the playoffs be far worse? Why do believe this team this team can "turn it on for the playoffs"?


1. Their point differential still suggests they're a better team than their record (7th best team in the league)
2. Melo's ability to hit contested shots are more suited for the playoffs.
3. PG historically plays better in the playoffs. 
4. OKC could still get a favorable first round matchup.
5. OKC has had great stretches recently (winning 7 of 8 before losing these close games), but this board has short term memory. 
6. OKC's last 5 losses have been to playoff teams and each has been 4 points or less... not exactly the sign of a non-competitive team. 

I could go on. Every season everyone still reacts to every game or stretch like it's life or death. You have to step back sometimes to look at the broader picture. Several teams OKC could play in the first round have also been struggling recently. In 2016, it didn't look like there was any way OKC could compete with the Spurs much less the Warriors. Yeah, I'm just not ready to concede that OKC is going to get destroyed just yet because a number of close games didn't go their way. Remember, OKC lost every close game for the first month of the season... and then won all their close games the next month. The same thing could turn around tomorrow.

----------


## Urbanized

Great post, Dan.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Because making the playoffs, and then getting kicked out the first round, is still more success than not making the playoffs to begin with. 
> 
> Even a 1st round sweep against us still results in money for the team, money for the businesses in Oklahoma City, and more importantly more playoff experience for every player on our roster. The playoffs are just a whole other experience for players and coaches and support staff, and it's better to get that experience while getting our rears handed to us than it would be to not have that experience for next year.


My inquiry was based solely on long term benefits to future success. The facts of money being made by merchants, owners was not part of the equation. The playoff experience is hard to factor in. I don't know that the starters need this to add to their expertise, and the bench I have doubts as to whether or not the majority should be with the BLUE or overseas. I don't see how this team will be able to get additional talent outside of the draft with salary tax restrictions and such.

----------


## Jersey Boss

Thanks for your insights Dan.

----------


## dankrutka

> Thanks for your insights Dan.


No problem. I enjoy the discussion. I tend to be an optimist, but I'm also big into looking at patterns. And there's some hope there even if there's plenty of reasons to be concerned. This team is definitely not as good as I expected. I just think they *could* still win a first round series and be competitive in the second round. 

As to getting the draft pick, even if you take out the enhanced possibility of losing PG by missing the playoffs, it's really not that beneficial. OKC would likely get the worst lottery pick, which doesn't guarantee much. That's just below where we drafted Steven Adams and Cam Payne. Hit or miss. But, OKC is going to have to give up a pick this year or next so keeping it this year would just even out next year. There's almost nothing to be gained longterm in getting a lottery pick this season.

----------


## Urbanized

> ...I don't see how this team will be able to get additional talent outside of the draft with salary tax restrictions and such.


Agree that they are in a tough spot and that if PG and Melo don't show up, it's a dark scenario. I've asked this before and can't remember if/how anyone responded, but I'm wondering if Melo's people could approach the Thunder and agree to opt out of next season and instead sign a longer term, guaranteed deal (3-4 years..?) with veteran minimum money early and enough backloaded that it would be similar to what he can likely get by sticking to current deal next year and going on open market after that.

I think he still has a few years of good (maybe not All-Star, but still good) hoop left in him, and as Dan points out he has specific skills which might translate very well in the playoffs, provided he starts hitting shots.

----------


## Jersey Boss

Right now he gets 28M next year. Guaranteed. The league min for a 10 year vet is about 1.4M. So say he has 5 years total left that comes to 35M guaranteed. I don't see how the Thunder can make the #'s work. In all honesty, would you or anyone you know walk away from 28M guaranteed for the min. when you factor in a greater probability of a career ending injury as one ages? Ownership would have to come up with a # totaling over 35 to offset risk to the player.

Then there is another problem in PG. If you were a voting member of the ownership group, would you pay a max contract on this guy after watching this team this year?

----------


## dankrutka

I cannot see a situation where Melo would opt out and stay in OKC. I think he'll opt in. It's just too much money to give up. Besides, (a) OKC may not have the salary cap space to sign him long term and (b) I think signing Melo long term would be worse for OKC. Paying him $28 million for one year stinks, but paying him $7 million in three or four years might be even worse. 

There is absolutely no question that you pay PG whatever he demands. He's an all-star and there's really no path to another all-star. For PG's offensive frustrations, it's easy to forget he's one of the top perimeter defenders in the league. He's worth the max. OKC will be in trouble financially no matter what, but you still make that happen.

----------


## Laramie

Westbrook needs to yield to Coach Donovan:

If Westbrook is on page 1; while Donovan is on page 2,  attempts to draw up plays from his bench perspective then you're going to continue to see Russ run into traps--then on a last decision throw the ball out near the 3 point line leading to a turnover.

Westbrook needs to get in tune with Donovan's advantage from the bench; if Westbrook plays by ear then Billy's plays will not work.   Westbrook can't just do his own thing which sometimes work--he needs to work with the team--let the game come to him instead of trying to create his own options when the team follows what Donovan has drawn up.  

This becomes counter-productive;  players get frustrated, IMO that's why you see balls bouncing/rattling off the rim instead of going thru the hoop.

----------


## Urbanized

Man Laramie, I sort of feel like Russell Westbrook is the least of this team's problems.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 108 - Houston Rockets 102*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975940

----------


## Laramie

> Man Laramie, I sort of feel like Russell Westbrook is the least of this team's problems.


Agree,  seldom do I single him out for his play.  Did hear him say to Donovan that he doesn't like  to draw up plays--you've got to know what your plan of attack in those close games.   We've lost some close one's down the stretch.

----------


## Laramie

*Rockets Meltdown 4.7.18*

Some comical postings by Rocket fans;  OKC ended Houston's 20 game home win streak:  https://thunderdigest.com/2018/04/08...ltdown-4-7-18/

Some excerpts: 




> Paul George should’ve fouled out by now!! Rigged!!
> whenever we put in these two grandpas nene and jj at the same time, we lose lead…
> joe johnson should get 0 minutes in the playoffs.





> Westbrook looks fantastic.
> Time for a patented Rockets 15-2 run.
> Westbrook’s intensity is unmatched in the league
> *If Melo blocks you at the rim. Retire.*





> Refs gave them about 10 points so we should’ve won in my book
> he lost the ball again…wtf is up with Harden and pressure?
> Rockets lost!!!….Westbrook deserves MVP over Harden!!
> Harden bricking fts when they chant MVP just shows how mentally weak he is.
> Go home rockets. You’re drunk

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 115 - Miami Heat  93*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975952
Westbrook 25th Triple-double, 23 points; Paul George 5-13 threes, 8-9 free throws, 27 points, Jerami Grant 17 points, 9-11 free throws

----------


## Anonymous.

Spurs are currently down 10 to the Kings @ home. Jazz still have Warriors and Trailblazers. OKC could actually get the 4th spot if things keep playing out in their favor. That would be nuts considering how this season has gone.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^^
I’m trying to restrain myself from quoting a bunch of my own posts upthread starting about mid-December.

----------


## Easy180

Ended up with a winning record on the road. Should have some momentum going into the playoffs.

----------


## Anonymous.

Of course the Kings blow it. Chances @ 4th are hurt now. But the Jazz could still lose a game and Spurs could lose to Pelicans when we are playing the Grizzlies.

Denver versus Minnesota @ the same time will determine who goes to the playoffs of those two. That is going to be an insane game.

The final night of the NBA season is going to basically determine 4-9 with tiebreakers being involved.

----------


## Teo9969

I'd prefer the 7 seed, but am fine with anything other than the 6 seed. Even though we haven't done great against them in the regular season, I think we would beat the Trailblazers who haven't done crap in the post season in the Lillard era. I don't think we would beat a healthy Warrior's squad, so biting the bullet early and seeing if you can't knock them off while they're injured probably gives us our best shot at the reaching the WCF. I also think Houston will get easier to beat as the playoffs drag on.

----------


## dankrutka

> ^^^^^^^
> I’m trying to restrain myself from quoting a bunch of my own posts upthread starting about mid-December.


Let’s not get carried away. Lol. This OKC team has underperformed and sneaking into a decent seed doesn’t change that. It all comes down to the playoffs. I wouldn’t get too high after these wins just like I didn’t get too low after the recent losses. Time will tell.

----------


## dankrutka

Everyone who wants the Warriors is crazy to me. Yeah, Steph Is out, but they’re probably still the second best team in the league without him. I don’t think they’re as injured as people think and I think they’re better with the current squad then people think also. How quickly people forget. 

 Give me the Portland Trailblazers.  We’re due to kick their butt.

----------


## Urbanized

> Let’s not get carried away. Lol. This OKC team has underperformed and sneaking into a decent seed doesn’t change that. It all comes down to the playoffs. I wouldn’t get too high after these wins just like I didn’t get too low after the recent losses. Time will tell.


You’re not picking up what I’m laying down. I’ve been consistent as hell.

Since day one I’ve just been saying don’t panic, they’ll be competitive, Donovan’s wonky line-ups are experimental leading to playoffs, they’ll definitely MAKE the playoffs, they’re likely to make it through at least one round, and have POTENTIAL to make more noise after that. I’ve also been very consistent that anybody who seriously expected them to waltz to a championship this season was delusional, and that this year was about finding rhythm and retaining Paul George.

The way I see it, I’ve pretty much nailed all of it. Besides, if you award them HALF of the games that the L2M report essential said should have gone the other way and/or Paul George doesn’t have his shooting slump, they’re probably third seed, which is only underperformance in the eyes of the truly delusional.

The only thing I’m on my high horse about is all of the “disaster of a season,” “won’t make playoffs,” “fire Donovan” talk. Because those were garbage takes.

----------


## dankrutka

Hey, I’m mostly with you. The Thunder  are likely in a position where they can win the first round and be competitive in the second round. That certainly was the general expectation I had going into the season even if they’ve underperformed. I’m just pointing out that it’s certainly been a disappointment that the team was this close to missing the playoffs. I hope that this team has turned the corner, but let’s not bank on that until we see it.  If you’ve noticed, I’ve never gotten too high or low with this team. So, I’m not getting too high just because they’ve won a couple games. I want to see them do it when it matters.  Losing in the first round would certainly be a failure for the season.

----------


## Urbanized

I’ve also not gotten too high or too low. In fact it’s pretty much what I’ve expected other than the record being a bit worse than I’d hoped and some frustrating clunkiness from PG and Melo (though understandable to some extent because they - especially Melo - were completely altering their games).

I think if they win a series, contend in if not win another, and find a way to resign PG while keeping the core of what’s made them successful they’re in great shape for a real run next year. Which is exactly what I’ve been saying all season.

If I’m disappointed about anything it’s that Houston is so much better than the field now that GSW is unexpectedly vulnerable. Would be a great year to capitalize.

That said, OKC has been competitive with Houston and can certainly beat them when hitting on all cylinders. Also, Harden benefits from really forgiving officiating all year and feasts on what is essentially a cheat code; hooking defenders, throwing his floppy head back and getting to the foul line. That is likely to evaporate in the postseason and level the playing field. So who knows what happens from here? I’m excited for the opportunity. The idea that missing the playoffs would be better..? Sorry, I vigorously disagree.

----------


## Thomas Vu

I wouldn't look too down on Portland.  It's not their fault the keep running in to the Warriors round 1 or 2 of the playoffs.

----------


## Anonymous.

Basically we need to root for the Jazz to lose if we want the 4th spot. I say if we aren't going to be 4th, then we want to be 7th. I think KD doesn't have the ability to lead that team in a tough playoff matchup - especially if we can steal homecourt. If we have to face the snake, do it without Curry. One thing I am scared about, is Zaza purposely injuring any of our players, though. That seems to be what the Warrior's go-to move is when the going gets tough for the greatest team of all time.

----------


## dankrutka

> If Im disappointed about anything its that Houston is so much better than the field now that GSW is unexpectedly vulnerable. Would be a great year to capitalize.


The demise of the Warriors is much exaggerated. They're still the favorite to win the title.

----------


## dankrutka

> Basically we need to root for the Jazz to lose if we want the 4th spot. I say if we aren't going to be 4th, then we want to be 7th. I think KD doesn't have the ability to lead that team in a tough playoff matchup - especially if we can steal homecourt. If we have to face the snake, do it without Curry. One thing I am scared about, is Zaza purposely injuring any of our players, though. That seems to be what the Warrior's go-to move is when the going gets tough for the greatest team of all time.


Even if we don't like him, KD is a top 3 player in the planet who is more than capable of leading the Warriors to eliminate us. I don't wany any part of the Warriors even if they're without Steph. In order, I hope the Thunder play the Pelicans, Spurs, Blazers, Jazz, Rockets, Warriors. Assuming OKC doesn't lose to the Memphis Tankers on Wednesday, OKC is likely playing the Jazz or the Pelicans/Spurs winner though.

----------


## Anonymous.

I know he is obviously a fantastic player, but we know he is mentally weak. Russ and crew clowning on him by winning 1 of the first two would mess with his head so much.

Anyway, I think the only chance we have to play GSW is if we lose (throw) the Memphis game. I am scared of Jazz and Trailblazers. I hope we play Pelicans or Spurs.


Tramel went ahead and went through the brain maze of the 3-8 seeds to see how OKC can get 4th. This is the scenario:

_* Utah must beat Golden State on Tuesday night in Salt Lake City;

* The Thunder must beat Memphis on Wednesday night in OKC;

* Portland must beat Utah on Wednesday night in Portland._

----------


## Urbanized

> The demise of the Warriors is much exaggerated. They're still the favorite to win the title.


I never said they're not the favorite. I said they are unexpectedly vulnerable, which is 100% accurate. Just like everyone else I expected them to be unbeatable this season, and that has not proven to be the case. They CAN be beaten, especially if the injury bug continues. Unexpected turn of events, although of course the injury part can strike any team.

I DID say that Houston is much better than the field, and stand by that. In case it wasn't clear I intended for that to imply EXCEPT for GSW, who I agree on paper is a much better team than even Houston is  (also from an experience and coaching standpoint), but not better right now as far as productivity is concerned.

----------


## dankrutka

> I know he is obviously a fantastic player, but we know he is mentally weak. Russ and crew clowning on him by winning 1 of the first two would mess with his head so much.


I don't know how you define "mentally weak," but like it or not, Kevin Durant is a big-time player who often thrives in the face of adversity. Here's just some evidence off the top of my head: 
- He drilled the biggest shot of last season in LeBron's face to win the Finals and Finals MVP when the game was on the line. 
- KD had a ton of clutch moments with the Thunder where he took over games in tough situations. 
- When KD faced the most backlash from the media, Thunder players, and fans, he responded by absolutely destroying the Thunder. 

The way KD played against OKC after the backlash of his decision pretty much directly contradicts the idea that he'd fall apart in the face of criticism. He may be "mentally weak" off the court, but when he steps on it, he's as good as anyone in the game, including when facing adversity.

----------


## dankrutka

> I never said they're not the favorite. I said they are unexpectedly vulnerable, which is 100% accurate. Just like everyone else I expected them to be unbeatable this season, and that has not proven to be the case. They CAN be beaten, especially if the injury bug continues. Unexpected turn of events, although of course the injury part can strike any team.
> 
> I DID say that Houston is much better than the field, and stand by that. In case it wasn't clear I intended for that to imply EXCEPT for GSW, who I agree on paper is a much better team than even Houston is  (also from an experience and coaching standpoint), but not better right now as far as productivity is concerned.


I gotchya in regards to Houston/Golden State, but I disagree that anything has been proven yet. I think should be wary in using the regular season to judge a Golden State team that doesn't care about the regular season. We'll see if Houston can hang with them in the playoffs. Maybe so, but I'm still waiting to see. Golden State only has one impactful injury at this point and that may be resolved by round 2. The rest of these injuries are just them getting people healthy for the playoffs. And trust me, I hope Golden State struggles, but I still think they're arguably the most talented team in NBA history.

----------


## Laramie

*Heat Meltdown! 4.9.18*
http://thunderdigest.com/2018/04/10/...ltdown-4-9-18/

----------


## Urbanized

> I gotchya in regards to Houston/Golden State, but I disagree that anything has been proven yet. I think should be wary in using the regular season to judge a Golden State team that doesn't care about the regular season. We'll see if Houston can hang with them in the playoffs. Maybe so, but I'm still waiting to see. Golden State only has one impactful injury at this point and that may be resolved by round 2. The rest of these injuries are just them getting people healthy for the playoffs. And trust me, I hope Golden State struggles, but I still think they're arguably the most talented team in NBA history.


That’s fine and all but the’re currently down 62-33 to the Lakers at the half. Just saying they’re more vulnerable this season than they have been in the past few.

----------


## Anonymous.

Warriors toughest games this season were against OKC and Utah. It just so happens to work out, that if they lost this game against the Jazz - that it would be impossible for them to match up against the Thunder or Jazz in round 1.

Tinfoil hat engaged, I have a hard time believing these Warriors "lost" to the Jazz by 40.

----------


## Urbanized

Interesting theory.

----------


## Anonymous.

Okay just went though the standings and I think this is the only scenario now:

OKC is essentially guaranteed to play the Jazz in round 1. If Thunder wins against Memphis, they play Jazz. If they lose against Memphis, we play Rockets.

The real interesting thing is if the Jazz lose to Portland tomorrow and we beat Memphis, we get the homecourt by being 4th and Jazz falls to 5th.

----------


## Teo9969

If the Warriors make it out of Round 1 and they can be mostly healthy at the beginning in the 2nd round, they will not lose more than 4 games this post-season. 

Now that the 7 seed is an impossibility, OKC needs to win tomorrow and hopefully have some things go their way for the 4 seed.

----------


## dankrutka

Houston lost Luc Mbah a Moute tonight.  He’s a really important part of what I do and will be a big loss for them. 

Barring a Memphis collapse, OKC - Utah should be a great series.

----------


## Urbanized

> Thats fine and all but there currently down 62-33 to the Lakers at the half. Just saying theyre more vulnerable this season than they have been in the past few.


Oops, Jazz. My bad.

----------


## Laramie

*NBA playoff race: What's at stake and what to watch on Wednesday:* http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...ce-stake-watch


  
*Portland Trailblazers have lost 4 in a row.* http://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/...-trail-blazers

----------


## dankrutka

In the short term (and assuming OKC beats Memphis), Thunder fans have two choices:

1. Root for Portland, get the 4 seed and play the Jazz, and (hopefully) play the Rockets in round 2
2. Root for the Jazz, get the 6 seed and play the Jazz, and (hopefully) play the Warriors in round 2.

I don't think there's a clear right option. I guess it depends on -- as we've been discussing -- where you think Golden State and Houston are right now. 

I can't wait for the Timberwolves-Nuggets game tonight. It's the super rare play-in game.

----------


## Anonymous.

We definitely want Portland  and us to win. Because homecourt against the Jazz would be really great.

----------


## Richard at Remax

Houston or Utah are OKC only potential opponents for 1st round (via https://twitter.com/trailblazers/sta...12978553569280)

----------


## shawnw

Dang, I didn't think we could still be 8th, but I guess that makes sense...

----------


## Laramie

.

*Oklahoma City Thunder 137 - Memphis Grizzlies  123*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975973
Westbrook: NBA record back to back years to average a triple-double.  George 40, Adams 24, Brewer 17,  Grant 12,  Ferguson 12, Anthony 10.

----------


## Laramie

*Disturbing:*

Pelicans defeated the Spurs 122 -  98

Thunder & Pelicans end the season with identical records:  48 - 34.  Pelicans have the tie-breaker with a 2-1 head to head match-up vs. Thunder.

Who will be the 4th seed if Utah loses or Portland loses:

*WEST PLAYOFFS*

1. Rockets vs. 8. Timberwolves
2. Warriors vs. 7. Spurs
3. Blazers OR Jazz vs. Thunder OR Pelicans
4. Blazers OR Thunder vs. 5. Pelicans OR Jazz
West No. 1 seed: Houston Rockets (65-16)

This was locked in before the night.
West No. 2 seed: Golden State Warriors (58-24)

This was locked in before the night.
West No. 3 seed: Winner of Portland Trail Blazers (48-33) vs. Utah Jazz (48-33)

They play each other at 10:30 p.m. ET. This is relatively simple.
West No. 4 seed: Trail Blazers, or Oklahoma City Thunder (48-34)

THE BLAZERS ARE THE NO. 4 SEED IF: They lose AND the Spurs lose to the Pelicans. Oklahoma Citys result doesnt matter because Portland has the tiebreaker.

THE THUNDER ARE THE NO. 4 SEED IF: They win AND the Blazers win. The Spurs-Pelicans result is irrelevant because Oklahoma City wins the three-team tiebreaker over Utah and San Antonio.
West No. 5 seed: Jazz or New Orleans Pelicans (48-34)

THE JAZZ ARE THE NO. 5 SEED IF: They lose AND the Thunder win. The Spurs-Pelicans game is irrelevant because Utah wins the three-team tiebreaker over San Antonio and New Orleans.

THE PELICANS ARE THE NO. 5 SEED IF: They win AND the Blazers lose. Oklahoma Citys victory means Utah must win for New Orleans to get this high.
West No. 6 seed: Thunder or Pelicans

THE THUNDER ARE THE NO. 6 SEED IF: They win AND the Jazz win.

THE PELICANS ARE THE NO. 6 SEED IF: They win AND the Blazers win.
West No. 7 seed: San Antonio Spurs (47-35)

San Antonio lost badly to the Pelicans in New Orleans and saw their seed drop when Oklahoma City beat Memphis as expected.

West No. 8 seed: Minnesota Timberwolves (47-35)

They won an OT thriller vs. the Nuggets to make the playoffs for the first time in 12 years. They could have moved up had New Orleans or Oklahoma City lost, but they did not.
West No. 9 seed: Denver Nuggets (46-36)

Poor Denver.
Next Up In NBA

    The Timberwolves are back in the playoffs for the 1st time since 2004

Here are the NBA playoff matchups and scenarios as the last night of the season continues:  https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/4/...st-game-season

----------


## Teo9969

I'd actually rather play the Jazz on the road because I think the 1st 2 games are going to be a split regardless of where we play. I'd rather have games 3/4 at Home. I think we can/should win the series either way, but I think we're probably looking at a 7 game series as the 4 seed, but feel like we would have closed it out in 6 as the 6 seed.

However, I'd rather face Houston than Golden State in the 2nd round because I think there is a chance to beat Houston.

Unless the Thunder come out and walk away with Round 1 in 5 or less, I don't think there's really any reason to believe that we'll push the Rockets or Warriors very far (barring injuries).

----------


## Anonymous.

First game is Sunday @ 5:30pm in OKC.

----------


## Urbanized

https://www.theringer.com/nba-playof...t-playoffs-nba

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder vs.  Utah Jazz*

Sun, Apr 15	vs  Utah 7:30 PM	TNT

Wed, Apr 18	 vs  Utah   7:00 PM  NBATV

Sat, Apr 21 @  Utah 9:00 PM  ESPN

Mon, Apr 23  @ Utah  9:30 PM	TNT

If necessary:

Wed, Apr 25  vs  Utah TBA
Fri, Apr 27 @  Utah  TBA
Sun, Apr 29  vs  Utah  TBA


*Chesapeake Energy Arena:  100 W Reno Ave, Oklahoma City, OK 73102*


*Vivint Smart Home Arena:  301 S Temple, Salt Lake City, UT 84101*

----------


## Urbanized

https://sports.yahoo.com/important-p...184723688.html

----------


## Bellaboo

> .
> *Oklahoma City Thunder vs.  Utah Jazz*
> 
> Sun, Apr 15	vs  Utah 7:30 PM	TNT
> 
> Wed, Apr 18	 vs  Utah   7:00 PM  NBATV
> 
> Sat, Apr 21 @  Utah 9:00 PM  ESPN
> 
> ...


The first game is at 5:30 pm.

----------


## Laramie

> The first game is at 5:30 pm.


Thanks,  for the correction Bellaboo.  Now I can make the Dodgers' 2:05 p.m. game tomorrow afternoon @The Brick.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder  116 - Utah Jazz  108*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401029438

----------


## sooner88

We looked as good as we good have expected tonight. PG won't score 36, but he found his rhythm at the right time. The crowd was electric. Mitchell played great in his rookie debut, but, unsurprisingly, Rubio played nervous... 7th year and first playoff game. Hopefully Adams isn't hurt from his dunk and PG's contusion is minimal. We overwhelmed the Jazz and look like the team we've been waiting for all year.

----------


## Teo9969

Gotta shore up the defense on lane drivers. I feel like Utah made a classic "rookie" mistake of getting out of their game early on. They played the transition game way too much and it got them out of rhythm. This will be a tougher series for Oklahoma City as Utah finds long stretches where they control the pace. I don't really see Utah winning a game with both teams scoring over 100 points.

Overall, OKC did what they needed to to win. I hope they can continue to see the Big 4 play under 40 minutes for the rest of this series.

----------


## Laramie



----------


## Anonymous.

Skip Bayless is calling OKC for the championship over Philly. That would be a historic playoff run, but I want to believe. 

I watched the Houston/Minnesota game last night and feel slightly better about playing the Rockets if it comes to it.

----------


## Urbanized

1. Skip Bayless is a buffoon and the kiss of death

2. I’m personally furious that he said this because I’ve yet to see him make a prophetic or particularly insightful pick, and I’d hate for credibility of any type to come to him via a Thunder championship. He has been nothing but a detractor since this team arrived.

----------


## Laramie

*Utah Jazz Game 1 Meltdown 4.15.18*
Excerpts: 




> Were straight up embarrassing OKC.
> Ahh Crymelo throwing up a brick, takes me back. Lol this is a poor excuse for a super team.
> Jazz are staying in it but the worrisome part is they are playing at OKCs tempo
> *Looking at Westbrick s face makes me feel like I have diarrhea*
> Get Adams in foul trouble. Go at him. Every ****ing possession.
> Paul George needs to start missing again I dont like this Paul George.
> Bull ****! Call it on Westbrook then, his was intentional.
> The thunder arena with the stupid cop sound ever single time there is a foul is aids.
> How are we not down 30+
> ...


Link:  http://thunderdigest.com/2018/04/15/...tdown-4-15-18/

----------


## Laramie

Kudos to the Thunder organization for the coordinated  T-shirt crowds and Rumble opening drum beat rally.   Didn't use to see this in the NBA until Oklahoma City entered the league & the playoffs.

NBA franchises seem to be following our lead.

*Toronto Raptors:*

----------


## John

> Kudos to the Thunder organization for the coordinated  T-shirt crowds and Rumble opening drum beat rally.   Didn't use to see this in the NBA until Oklahoma City entered the league & the playoffs.
> 
> NBA franchises seem to be following our lead.


Mascot wise, we've been very lucky in our short NBA tenure, having both Hugo and Rumble (nee Squatch), who were/are two of the most innovative/respected/well-compensated individuals in their line of work...

----------


## Roger S

> Skip Bayless is calling OKC for the championship over Philly. That would be a historic playoff run, but I want to believe.


You lost me at Skip Bayless.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Utah Jazz 102 - Oklahoma City Thunder 95*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401029440

----------


## G.Walker

We lost this game at the free throw line 23-12. Also, PG13 going 6-21 ain't gone cut it. The Thunder team is day & night, but they have been like that all season, not surprised.

----------


## Anonymous.

We basically played without Adams and he was cooking 4-5. Refs completely removed him and changed this game. That's just how it goes sometimes. I think they will come out hitting heavy in G3.

----------


## dcsooner

Lost because we have no real offensive identity, isolation play abounded with really poor shot selection. Where is Ennis when you need him?

----------


## dankrutka

OKC’s big 3 were 0/14 in the 4th and shot terribly. Overall, the shots were fine. It was just a night where they didn’t fall. No need to panic. Enes couldn’t even stay on the floor against half the playoff teams in the West because he’s such a vulnerability on defense.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^^
Agreed on all counts. Absolutely love Enes as an individual, a representative of a city, as a teammate, as an offensive rebounder and scorer in the paint, but legitimate chance he would have been on bench most or all of last night’s game. Utah’s bigs would have FEASTED on his defense.

----------


## shawnw

I guess Playoff P wasn't invited to game 2

----------


## dankrutka

The big problem with Enes' defense wasn't his post defense, but his inability to guard in space. Teams have been really aggressive about getting him in a pick and roll and then attacking him. Now, having said that, Melo presents some of the same limitations and we have seen some teams target and attack him. It'll be interesting if Melo gets played off the floor at times. We already know Enes would have.

----------


## Urbanized

Yeah, Melo needs for his shots to drop. Or more precisely the Thunder needs for Melo's shots to stop dropping. He can still be a great asset, but ONLY if he's scoring. He has definitely stepped up his perimeter defensive intensity the past two games but he's getting rolled when his assignment pulls him in the lane.

----------


## kswright29

Too bad we didn't have the crew from the Pacers -Cavs game tonight. They are flat-out letting them play, just the way it should be come playoff time. None of that ticky-tack garbage we saw the other night.

----------


## dankrutka

First, all OKC needs is one of the two games in Utah so if OKC can get the next game then they're still in an okay spot. But, Russ seems completely rattled by Gobert. He's scared and getting completely destroyed by Rubio. If OKC goes down and loses PG, Russ has no one but himself to blame. Second, Donovan deserves a lot of scrutiny. I don't mind his game plan, but his team is completely inconsistent and I blame it at least partially on his inability to generate any consistency during the regular season. The way the team melted down tonight is reminiscent of a team with poor habits and players who do not believe in the system. How often is OKC swinging the ball around the perimeter in the 1st quarter and then that disappears as the game goes on? That's on the coach... and probably Russ. Losing is one thing, getting blown out is another. Remember, the West teams in OKCs realm -- Portland, Utah, NOLA -- were all expected to be well worse than OKC. There's no question this team is underperforming. I'm not saying Donovan should be fired, but I think he's been exposed a bit. Or, Russ has been exposed. OKC has lacked offensive consistency through Brooks and Donovan... Russ is the consistent piece to the offensive problems. Of course, Adams foul trouble doesn't help... but Gobert is just so, so good. Anyway, this is my frustrated steam-of-consciousness post. Now, let's see if Russ and Donovan can prove me wrong.

Again, get game 4 and we're back in it.

----------


## Jake

This team has so many issues. 

Really disappointed in Westbrook. Don't know if he can lead a team to a title by being the number one guy.

----------


## Teo9969

Russ is a great player, but he's simply not consistent enough to lead a team to greatness by himself. Someone else has to step up as well. While PG13 is supposed to, he's only been okay in OKC - obviously a Top 10-20 player in the league, but mainly because he's such a great defender. They need him to be able to take over a game.

This is just not a great matchup for OKC because they don't have the perimeter shooting to keep Gobert from absolutely abusing the glass.

----------


## Teo9969

> First, all OKC needs is one of the two games in Utah so if OKC can get the next game then they're still in an okay spot. But, Russ seems completely rattled by Gobert. He's scared and getting completely destroyed by Rubio. If OKC goes down and loses PG, Russ has no one but himself to blame. Second, Donovan deserves a lot of scrutiny. *I don't mind his game plan, but his team is completely inconsistent and I blame it at least partially on his inability to generate any consistency during the regular season*. The way the team melted down tonight is reminiscent of a team with poor habits and players who do not believe in the system. How often is OKC swinging the ball around the perimeter in the 1st quarter and then that disappears? That's on the coach... and probably Russ. Losing is one thing, getting blown out is another. Remember, the West teams in OKCs realm -- Portland, Utah, NOLA -- were all expected to be well worse than OKC. There's no question this team is dramatically underperforming. I'm not saying Donovan should be fired, but I think he's been exposed as a mediocre coach at best. Or, Russ has been exposed as a good, not great, player. OKC has lacked offensive consistency through Brooks and Donovan... Russ is the consistent piece. Of course, Adams foul trouble doesn't help... but Gobert has made it obvious that he's a better player than Adams. Anyway, this is my frustrated steam-of-consciousness post. Now, let's see if Russ and Donovan can prove me wrong.
> 
> Again, get game 4 and we're back in it.


I have been a big fan of Billy's tinkering because I always felt like it was such a large part of the success that OKC found in the 2016 playoffs. I think that probably more now than I did back then, but I think maybe there's a caveat that perhaps I never acknowledged before: That 2015/16 team had Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka who were at the time in their 8th season together and had established a certain style of play together. The tinkering was a great idea because it allowed everyone to learn all the nuances of play together.

This team however hadn't played crap together before this year - you can tell there is just no real identity even if there are several things that they do really well. If the Thunder somehow manage to keep PG13, I think next year will be better for this year's coaching. But that's a silly move considering PG13's staying here probably depends very much on whether or not the Thunder can have at least two quality series in the playoffs.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Utah Jazz  115 - Oklahoma City Thunder 102*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401029445

----------


## Anonymous.

This matchup is so bad for OKC. I would have rather drawn literally any other West team except the Rockets. Golden State knew exactly what they were doing when they lost to the Jazz by like 40. Hardest road.

----------


## dankrutka

> I have been a big fan of Billy's tinkering because I always felt like it was such a large part of the success that OKC found in the 2016 playoffs. I think that probably more now than I did back then, but I think maybe there's a caveat that perhaps I never acknowledged before: That 2015/16 team had Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka who were at the time in their 8th season together and had established a certain style of play together. The tinkering was a great idea because it allowed everyone to learn all the nuances of play together.
> 
> This team however hadn't played crap together before this year - you can tell there is just no real identity even if there are several things that they do really well. If the Thunder somehow manage to keep PG13, I think next year will be better for this year's coaching. But that's a silly move considering PG13's staying here probably depends very much on whether or not the Thunder can have at least two quality series in the playoffs.


Great post. My big problem is that the playoffs are here and two players OKC really needs to contribute -- Alex Abrines and Patrick Patterson -- have never gained any comfort in their roles. I mean, we went through an entire season and Billy never established clear roles for them. Now, he rolls out a lineup with these guys to increase shooting and just expects them to play comfortably. Again, Billy's tinkering worked in 2016, but it failed last year and, so far, it's falling short this year. We need a coach to find a middle ground between Scott Brooks' stubbornness and Billy's tinkering.

----------


## Jersey Boss

The problem here is Russell Westbrook.  For the last two games he has not even been the second best guard, in fact being the third best.  To then get into the post game and claim he can take care of Rubio is feeding into the typical fans claim this team has the ability to turn it off and on at will. Don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining. If Russ is guaranteeing this for game 4, why did he not do it in game 2 or 3?
As far as PG,  why would the ownership group think it is a good investment to not only increase the payroll but increase the payroll tax as well. What has this team showed this year that would warrant this? Melo will be here, another year older and while Russell is a freak on what he does physically, he just does not seem to be accumulating the knowledge of a superstar. The great ones compensate with cunning as they age, I don't see RW showing any promise in that department. Some claim that the team just needs more time together, but I look at Houston, Indiana and they don't seem to have the need for a year of aging. Russell is a stat collector and I don't see him having the smarts to lead a team to get a championship.  Should OKC lose this series they are the biggest disappointment in the league as far as what the expectations were based on the talent of the roster.

----------


## Thomas Vu

What has the defense been giving Rubio?  In the regular season/past in general it would say to leave him open and let him shoot.  One game being hot you could throw up to luck, two games though?  It's really odd though if they keep leaving him open that they didn't decide at some point to take him seriously.  

What looks really odd is that Utah looks like they have no depth.  Their bench doesn't even hit 20 the last two games.

----------


## Anonymous.

Russ needs to attack and get Gobert out of the game like they have done to Adams. It is the only chance we have unless we have another red-hot PG, which is like western Oklahoma  getting rain.

----------


## dankrutka

> As far as PG,  why would the ownership group think it is a good investment to not only increase the payroll but increase the payroll tax as well. What has this team showed this year that would warrant this? \


I fully agreed with your first paragraph and completely disagreed with your second paragraph. If you can get a top 20 NBA player, you get him. PG is absolutely worth the price. OKC has things to figure out, but you want PG. There is absolutely no question about it. 

Russ is still really good. Let's not go off the deep end. But he has real limitations that show up at times. But, take a look around these playoffs... or a look back at past ones, he's neither the only one and this also not the way he always plays. I think Gobert has really disrupted Russ' game and he's just missed everything from the midrange.

----------


## Anonymous.

Well Russ has shut down Rubio. But he is getting the BS call treatment that Adams has gotten the last two games. Russ with 4 personals in the first half and PG and Adams both playing with Techs with the chippiest game so far. 

Same old thing. Just a different player being removed from OKC with garbage calls.

----------


## Teo9969

I can't believe Melo is going to make $25M next year...absolutely crushing.

----------


## Teo9969

This is basically why I didn't want home court advantage --- this team was destined to split the 1st 2 games whether they played last year's Warriors squad at full force or the 2015 Brooklyn Nets.

----------


## dankrutka

> I can't believe Melo is going to make $25M next year...absolutely crushing.


It's not really crushing except to the owners. If OKC cuts his $25 million in salary it frees up almost no space. But it's almost unfathomable how bad he is. He's gone from a star to an a good scorer to a fringe NBA player so quickly. The bigger thing is that coaches struggle not to play former stars. Melo should be a situational 20 minute per game player at this point in his career. But he's treated like a star.

----------


## Anonymous.

Oh man. This is just a full blown spiral now. Melo is getting destroyed on both ends and he is wide open. 

Also I really like how we finally have Adams in the game, but nothing is going through him. Is Donovan even trying right now? Remove the corpse of Anthony off the floor, for the love of god.

----------


## dankrutka

So, in short, here's the problem:

- Russ < Rubio (in his first playoffs)
- PG < Mitchell ( a rookie)
- Adams < Gobert 
- Melo < anyone on the court
- Snyder < Donovan

Literally, OKC have lost all these match ups thus far. PG and Russ can't get outplayed like this. I do wonder if Russ has some kind of shoulder injury because his shot looks uncomfortable. Several of Russ' fouls were weak calls, but Russ is still too emotionally immature. He was playing awful team defense in trying to prove his manhood against Rubio. Instead, he was completely neglecting his weakside defensive responsibilities. Russ has to be more mature and play smart basketball. We've excused Russ' immaturity for years, but if he's going to be a leader then he really has to have more composure. PG let Ingles get in his head too. And then all this immaturity showed up as the team looked like it quit when things went bad. Why were Russ and PG in the game towards the end when they were just getting into scrums? Which leads me to Donovan's many failures...

Donovan couldn't get his team to prevent wide open threes off a pick and roll. It just happened over and over again. In the 4th quarter of a playoff game, Melo led OKC in minutes... that shows that Donovan is either a bad coach or unable to make tough decisions. Either way, Melo should not be playing this many minutes. He truly hurts the team when he's on the floor with the way he's playing. I said this earlier in the thread, but Abrines, Patterson, and maybe even Huestis could help this team, but you can't ask them to do so in the playoffs without developing consistent roles all year. Abrines especially should have a role on this team, but Donovan toyed with him all season. His tinkering is looking more and more like a flash in the pan with a veteran team. 

It's depressing that I'm writing this at the beginning of the 4th quarter . 

Having said all that, I'm still planning on driving up from Texas for game 5. Let's get the crowd behind this team and see if they can figure something out.

----------


## Teo9969

At this point, since we decided to not move players at the trade deadline the Thunder need to do two things:

1. Do just about whatever is necessary to sign George. If that means fire Donovan, you fire Donovan. If that means stretch Melo, you stretch Melo. If that means trade Adams, you probably need to do that (since you can actually get value for him).

I think they need to do everything they can to convince George into a 3-year max, with options in 2nd and 3rd year. You need to convince him that this 1st season with Russ was never going to be easy and you really need to convince him that this is still his best chance to compete through the rest of his prime. 

2. I think you need to sign Grant no matter the cost - he's on the brink of being that incredible jewel that Presti found. Another year of hard work and I think he can become a viable starter at the 4 and win a 6th man in the next 3 years.

But if I have to be honest -- I actually think this is all about to come apart and we're going to see Allen Iverson 2.0 for the next 4 years of Russ's contract while the league passes us by. I just don't see Westbrook getting the mental part down until his body has already left him. He'll have to literally be a different person. I honestly think Westbrook's only hope is if MJ and Kobe sit him down and retool his mind. That's not happening.

----------


## Jake

I thought this team was built for the playoffs?

----------


## Teo9969

> I thought this team was built for the playoffs?


To be sure, we drew the absolutely worse team we could draw for ourselves. Utah is actually a really good team. They'll probably lose in 5, or an easy 6 to the Rockets, but that's just because the Rockets are going to drain threes around them all series long. Any other non-GSW team in the league and I think Utah would have a great shot to come out on top.

But honestly, if Curry can make it back in the next 10 days, they will get a chance to come out of a nice little 6 or 7 game series with the Pelicans just in time to oil up the machine and then blitz Houston and whoever makes it out of the trash heap in the East.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Utah Jazz 113 - Oklahoma City Thunder 96*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401029450

----------


## Urbanized

The Melo deal is looking incredibly tough in the rear view, for certain.

----------


## Anonymous.

Donovan is probably fired next week. Anthony has done nothing except stunt Grant's growth. Donovan should have been fired back in February and we may have had a chance @ something other than this horrendous offense. It took one of our guys hitting 8/11 threes to beat the Jazz @ home. Otherwise this is a Blazers/Pels sweep.

What is up with Abrines not getting any minutes? I mean at least he tries and has a chance on defense. He wasn't doing too badly @ the end while he was on Mitchell.

Watch we are going to lose Grant this off season and he will go somewhere and be a huge contributor - just like every Thunder player that leaves.

----------


## thunderupokc

We are going to win this series FYI

----------


## Jersey Boss

If Donovan is let go, Presti should follow him out. It wasn't Donovan who brought in Melo and it wasn't the ownership group that brought in Donovan.

----------


## sooner88

> Donovan is probably fired next week. Anthony has done nothing except stunt Grant's growth. Donovan should have been fired back in February and we may have had a chance @ something other than this horrendous offense. It took one of our guys hitting 8/11 threes to beat the Jazz @ home. Otherwise this is a Blazers/Pels sweep.
> 
> What is up with Abrines not getting any minutes? I mean at least he tries and has a chance on defense. He wasn't doing too badly @ the end while he was on Mitchell.
> 
> Watch we are going to lose Grant this off season and he will go somewhere and be a huge contributor - just like every Thunder player that leaves.


I'm not sure if we're watching the same Abrines, he got roasted on defense last night... he gets lost on some many rotations and they resulted in wide open threes.

----------


## Jersey Boss

[QUOTE=Anonymous.;1030557Watch we are going to lose Grant this off season and he will go somewhere and be a huge contributor - just like every Thunder player that leaves.[/QUOTE]

Probably to Indiana. Victor O and Grant go way back.

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/victor...ant-interview/
http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasket...ladipo_sp.html

----------


## Laramie

*Key players:*

Simply put, Anthony & Westbrook are burned out. Will say that they have attempted to make a few adjustments--too little too late.

*Coaches:*

Not all college coaches can make that adjustment; Donovan inherited a dysfunctional situation in which Scott Brooks never demanded discipline or defense of Westbrook & K.D., these guys never got on the same page; therefore he did not want to upset the apple cart.  Case in point, K.D., caught it from players & coaches at GSW; he now plays better defense and team ball.   Westbrook never bought into Donovan's system;  he's got to become a team player.  Donovan should have brought in his own staff--retained too many of Brooks' regime.

*Officials:*  NBA transformations have evolved since 2014 _(Post David Stern)_:

Small ball, space the floor, accurate 3 point shooters & NBA officials.   NBA officials are not consistent in the way they call the game;  players are allowed to flop with no consequences, some touch fouls are called & some obvious fouls are ignored; most rookies are disrespected unless you're a gem in the rough.  Players have to adjust to the officials who make adjustments after they review half-time video.

Brooks wasn't a fan of the 3 point shot; he sat out a year to really study the new NBA game; it has helped him with the Wizards.   

Quin Snyder & Brad Stevens made adjustments.   

*Key:*

Donovan has been given the monumental task to manage 3 distinct personalities.

Retain Adams, Abrines & Grant.   Shed some salary from 1 of our big 3--who's it gonna be?

NOT READY TO THROW OUT THE WHITE FLAG!

----------


## Jersey Boss

Westbrook and Anthony have guaranteed money next year. Nobody would trade for Melo and he has a no trade anyway. George is worthless for trade now unless you do a sign and trade( with his approval). Only Westbrook has  value and can be traded. Good luck with that. It appears this franchise values loyalty over pragmatism.

----------


## Easy180

The Thunder just can’t shoot from any kind of distance and are complete garbage from 3.   Athleticism only gets you so far these days especially when the opponent has a big that can play D.

----------


## Jersey Boss

When it rains, it pours file:  Suspension for Westbrook?
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...e-5-suspension

----------


## Laramie

Adams has limitations in that he can't shoot or guard outside the paint; positives, he's strong inside the paint as long as he doesn't pick up his dribble--has improved on free throws.

We have a defensive specialist in Dre; however, you know his free throw shooting is his Achilles' heel.

----------


## dankrutka

As he always does, Zach Lowe breaks down the Thunder’s woes here: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...ayoffs-game-5?

I completely agree with his finishing statement too: “The Thunder are good -- way better than this. Let's hope they show it in Game 5.”

----------


## Laramie

.
*Oklahoma City Thunder 107 - Utah Jazz 99*

Box score:  http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401029451

----------


## Laramie



----------


## king183

I am stunned by what I just witnessed. My goodness.

----------


## dankrutka

Glad I drove up for the game... Wow!

----------


## sooner88

This was my first year with season tickets and by halftime our group was done. We showed no energy and that continued until halfway through the 3Q. The rest of the game was the most fun, aggressive, exciting Thunder I've seen all year. This is what we have been waiting for. If we can go into Game 6 with that attitude and aggression and force a Game 7... that may rival our first game vs the Lakers in our first playoffs in regards to crowd intensity. No one sat the entire 4th and I regained my full hearing 45 minutes after leaving. 

We obviously can't count on ~80 from PG and RW, but we saw some positive rotations (i.e. no Melo on the 40-16 run).

----------


## Anonymous.

That was one for the ages. Game 6 is going to be lit. It took Billy being down 25 in the third quarter of an elimination game to realize Melo is hot garbage.

----------


## warreng88

> That was one for the ages. Game 6 is going to be lit. It took Billy being down 25 in the third quarter of an elimination game to realize Melo is hot garbage.


Last night I yelled at the TV, "GET HIS @$$ ON THE BENCH!" in the first quarter, referring to Melo. If he can't make mid range or three point shots, he is a dumpster fire on defense, so there is no reason for him to be on the court. He was 2-6 in 25 minutes with seven points and five rebounds. I would much rather have Grant out there on both offense and defense, especially with Gobert on the floor. Melo can't rotate and cover him and PG is usually too far away from the paint to do it, so it is Adams and Gobert 1:1.

----------


## Jersey Boss

Helluva game, helluva performance by RW and PG, helluva comeback. Props to the winners last night.

----------


## sgt. pepper

Utah gave up the game so they can win the series at home.

----------


## dankrutka

> Utah gave up the game so they can win the series at home.


Sounds like a good strategy. Maybe they'll change their mind and decide they want to win the series on the road and lose tonight's game.

----------


## Laramie

Time Out!




Was  this commercial taped at the Cox Convention Center _(Old Myriad)_?

----------


## Dustin

Ugh

----------


## Laramie

We have some youth on the team with promise _(Adams, Grant, Abrines, Ferguson & Huestis)_,  hang on to these guys and move forward.  Singler & Anthony will be off our books come 2019-20.

Presti is keen on talent recognition;  it may take a few years to get these guys to develop full potential.

----------


## PlaschkeSucks

Lottery team for a while. ESPN loves to bash OKC. Anyone notice how disrespectful #$$$ Utah fans are. They make the Mavs/Rockets/Spurts/Warriors/Lakers/Idiots in Seattle look like choir boys.

----------


## Anonymous.

Carmelo's exit interview might have been about the best news for the Thunder organization all season. It sounds like to get him to opt-out, all they have to do is tell him he isn't a starter anymore.

The dude is really incredibly dense. He laughs @ the questions about coming off the bench and then blames his poor performance on the lack of "strategy" in the offense. 




> "I think the player that they wanted me to be and needed me to be was for the sake of this season," Anthony said. "Everything was just thrown together and it wasn't anything that was planned out. Wasn't no strategy to me being here, me being a part of the actual system and what type of player and things like that."


So what is it about bricking wide open threes is it that you feel doesn't fit? Dude is washed and needs to either play limited minutes against bench caliber players or mail it in.

----------


## Laramie

Best words we've heard come from Carmelo Anthony's mouth.  Hold him to this threat he has made toward the Thunder organization.

Tell Melo up front; he's coming off the bench.   If he doesn't like it, point him toward Syracuse and put him in cruise control.  Let him opt out.

----------


## dankrutka

I really disagree with comments that Melo is "dense" or a "diva" as I've seen any other places. From all accounts, Melo is a tremendous teammates, a really nice and thoughtful person, and great citizen. Melo is a superstar whose skills are declining. Almost all superstars struggle with this transition because they're competitors. They don't just roll over and accept that they're not good anymore. It's tough and we know this because this happens over and over again to superstars. Melo changed his game for the team and it didn't work out... is it a surprise that he'd want to go back to a role in which he had more success? Having said all that, I completely agree that Melo needs a lesser role as a spot up shooter and the best thing for OKC is probably if he opts out and leaves. But I'm not here for bashing the guy.

----------


## dankrutka

As usual, Zach Lowe nails the Thunder's problems: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...ty-thunder-nba

These quotes are spot on: 
"Put simply, Westbrook is an average jump shooter who takes too many contested jump shots worth two points."

"The obvious answer: Unleash Westbrook as the angriest, fastest, spread pick-and-roll point guard in NBA history. Turn those five ugly jumpers into lobs or 3s. There is no defense for a Westbrook-Adams pick-and-roll with three shooters surrounding it."

"This is why those who shrugged at Westbrook's 43 shots in Game 6, arguing he had to shoot so often because everyone else failed, missed the bigger picture. The point is not to cherry-pick one shooting binge and explain it away. The point is to look at that shooting binge, and at the specific shots George and Anthony missed, and wonder how it all might have unfolded had the Thunder ever installed a larger offensive infrastructure."

"The Thunder need other stars, and a coherent system that enables them -- an offense that persists beyond one desultory action. To find both, they need Westbrook to play a little differently. It doesn't have to be some sea change. It can be a bunch of little things -- starting with those five shots a game -- that add up to something larger."

----------


## Urbanized

> Carmelo's exit interview might have been about the best news for the Thunder organization all season. It sounds like to get him to opt-out, all they have to do is tell him he isn't a starter anymore.
> 
> The dude is really incredibly dense. He laughs @ the questions about coming off the bench and then blames his poor performance on the lack of "strategy" in the offense. 
> 
> 
> 
> So what is it about bricking wide open threes is it that you feel doesn't fit? Dude is washed and needs to either play limited minutes against bench caliber players or mail it in.


I took his comments regarding strategy to mean that they were all thrown together at the last minute without much thought to much more than the fact they were good players, and not about how their individual games might mesh, but with recognition that this was because of the last-minute nature. He is saying that now there must be a plan, and that is fair. I think he is also acknowledging that it is possible that the plan for the team and his own plans might not be able to accommodate his game (also fair).

According to Donovan and everyone with the team, and according to reports I've read online, he has been nothing short of an absolute professional in accepting his diminished role this year. This includes articles I've linked before, where he approached Donovan and asked "what do you need me to do?" According to everything I've seen and heard he has been an incredible lockeroom guy. I don't think he has been a cancer in any way this season; he has just had a difficult time adapting his game.

If anything, in these statements I see recognition on his part that he might never be a good fit to the system and that he needs to evaluate whether he should stick here or whether he needs to find a way to leave. That's also fair.

If he wants to leave, pretty sure he could opt out for a stretched contract that would be tradeable. Meaning if he is prioritizing going somewhere he can play his own style of play and make an impact with a contender, he does so for less money next year but with more long-term stability. Otherwise if he wants to stay he could do so either with an opt in or a stretch deal, but he would need to continue to adapt, which doesn't sound like what he wants. None of this is crappy or egotistical or whatever. People are calling him egotistical or difficult or washed up or whatever, and I don't really think that is a fair assessment. I just think he still believes he's an impact player and wants to be in a system where he is impactful. I don't think he's necessarily wrong. Everybody acts like he's SO old. He's 34. This year there were 25 players in the league older than him. But I will say this: he needs to go on the Vic Oladipo crossfit training regimen in the off-season, no matter where he lands. That would help him tons.

----------


## Urbanized

> I really disagree with comments that Melo is "dense" or a "diva" as I've seen any other places. From all accounts, Melo is a tremendous teammates, a really nice and thoughtful person, and great citizen. Melo is a superstar whose skills are declining. Almost all superstars struggle with this transition because they're competitors. They don't just roll over and accept that they're not good anymore. It's tough and we know this because this happens over and over again to superstars. Melo changed his game for the team and it didn't work out... is it a surprise that he'd want to go back to a role in which he had more success? Having said all that, I completely agree that Melo needs a lesser role as a spot up shooter and the best thing for OKC is probably if he opts out and leaves. But I'm not here for bashing the guy.


Amen.

----------


## Laramie

This is where many of us disagree; it has nothing to do with bashing.   

Does every Thunder player have the right to say whether or not he comes off the bench or when his number is called, if he wants to perform or contribute to the best of his ability?

Recall a game when Donovan attempted to send Anthony in to replace a tired Jerami Grant who had just knocked down a trey;  Melo was insubordinate, he told Donovan that Jerami was fine; he wasn't going in to replace him.  If we're going to allow well compensated players to decide their role on this team--why do you need a coach...  ...think about it.

'Attitudes' by players--and I'll continue to call them divas;  you're compensated by the Thunder organization; this gives the head coach & his staff the call (decision) to tweak this team for any situation that occurs.  It's the coach's decision.  It isn't about EGOS, be it Anthony, Westbrook or George.

If Anthony is allowed to decide whether or not he comes off the bench; then where does it stop...  ...the organization needs to get a FIRM grip on players who dictate their role on the team.

The worst of Carmelo Anthony was suppose to be gone by now:  https://nypost.com/2018/03/26/the-wo...e-gone-by-now/

----------


## Anonymous.

I am surprised my post was taken as bashing. If anything Anthony was bashing Sam and the organization. In what type of offensive strategy is a wide open shot not the goal? It isn't like Melo was having to work on his own to get shots. Russ and PG were finding him, but he was building brick houses. It doesn't matter what system you think you need to be in, 15 second long dribble jab-steps is the most outdated style of play in the NBA today. That is all Melo has ever known, if he can't be a knock down shooter (which was literally his only role we needed him for) then he has no business getting over 30 minutes a game. And when he isn't hitting his shots, he is still getting roasted on defense. 

I love Melo and know he is a great locker room guy, as evidenced by the team praising him. But that absolutely does not mean we can't criticize his performance and attitude about it. This is like the Perkins situation all over again, the coach keeps playing the guy who has his feet in concrete and the rest of the league adapts.

Like Laramie said, either Billy needs to go - or he needs to sack up and actually dictate when and where players are to be in the rotation.


There is a post on the frontpage of r/nba right now showing Melo moved the least distance in the entire league this season, dude wasn't even tired and he was out there playing like he is gassed.

----------


## dankrutka

^^^
I don't think any posts after yours argued against any of this. I pretty much agree and was speaking more to the trashing of Melo as a person, which was broader than any single post here. I've seen it in numerous places. All that to say, we largely agree that Melo does not appear to be very good at basketball. If it wouldn't hurt the PG3 recruitment, I'd definitely let Melo know he's be coming off the bench to encourage him to opt out.

----------


## Jake

Melo's not a bad locker room guy. 

Seemed like everybody on the team liked him. The local media have spoken highly of him as well. I'm glad he voiced his frustrations after the season ended like a professional and not during the season to make things worse. A lot of people have cited him as a cancer on WelcometoLoudCity, DailyThunder, r/thunder, etc but I've honestly been impressed with how he handled himself during an obviously difficult time of transition in his career. 

That being said, the dude is mostly washed. He thinks he's capable of doing more offensively and that he's deserving of a bigger role. That may be true, but it's not going to be on a team that wants to win a title during the year 2018 and beyond. This team already has a ball-dominant, inefficent player in Westbrook. Adding a player that excels at shooting high-volume long 2s only harms the team further. 

The way the team is constructed obviously doesn't work. Westbrook and Melo have both contributed to that. The difference is that Westbrook is the face of the franchise and gets to do whatever he wants without changing. Melo doesn't. So if he doesn't like it, he'll need to opt out. 

It may be best for both parties that way.

----------


## thunderupokc

Well I was wrong about winning the series (as I was afraid I would be) but I will never ever blame Russ for doing what Russ does when PG and Melo are out to lunch

Im also in the camp of wanting to see both PG and Melo back next season but

I enjoy Zach Lowes deep dives but I disagree with him fundamentally on the religion of analyticsI am old school and I still believe the 3 point shot has ruined the game of basketball that I grew up playing 

I believe an offense can still be effective by hitting the dreaded non-paint 2 at a 50+% clip as long as the ball moves from side to side via the pass not the dribble 

Once upon a time KD and Serge (and Carmelo and even His Airness for that matter) were absolutely automatic from 15-18 feet on the baselinetheir length preventing effective close outs from that range (not to mention Russ and his deadly cotton shot)

But we got caught up with Warrior fever as did the rest of the league to the point where we print in the game programs that non-paint 2s are bad and corner 3s are most efficient 

I firmly believe that the NBA 3 is just a step beyond most players natural rhythm shotand most teams are willing to accept the risk/reward element of that extra point at a lower % because analytics say so (and 29 teams dont have Steph and Klay and now KD to prove me wrong)

But games are played in 48 minutesnot 100 possessionsand ebbs and flows of the actual game at hand are never taken into account by the number crunchers

tldr versionI wish we would buck the trend and give a green light to a shooter in rhythm to shoot the midrange jumper at will and I think we would be rewarded with more victories 

Ill save defense for another day...

THUNDER UP 4LIFE RUSS REAL MVP

----------


## emtefury

I don’t see Melo opting out. No one else will pay him $27.9M next year.   The only scenario I see is him taking less money somewhere else so he can play how he wants.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^^^
But that’s NOT the only scenario. He could also opt out for a stretch deal, say 4/$40 guaranteed. Now, would the Thunder want to own that contract? Doubtful, especially in light of not wanting to even consider a bench role now that it’s obvious he doesn’t necessarily fit this team as a starter. But that’s a contract they could move. He knows that. And I think his comments may indicate he’s considering something like that so that he could land on a team where he’s a more obvious fit. Which would be great for everybody.

And Dan’s right; he’s been trashed all over the place on social media, blogs and elsewhere. He doesn’t deserve it. His game’s not a fit, I get it. But he’s been nothing but a pro, and even these post season comments in no way ,ean that he’s trying to dictate a his role to the Thunder. It just means he sees himself in a starting role where he contributes, which quite likely means someplace else.

----------


## dankrutka

> ^^^^^^^^
> But that’s NOT the only scenario. He could also opt out for a stretch deal, say 4/$40 guaranteed. Now, would the Thunder want to own that contract? Doubtful, especially in light of not wanting to even consider a bench role now that it’s obvious he doesn’t necessarily fit this team as a starter. But that’s a contract they could move. He knows that. And I think his comments may indicate he’s considering something like that so that he could land on a team where he’s a more obvious fit. Which would be great for everybody.


I don't think you can use stretch contracts the way you're proposing. You can only stretch players contracts when you buy them out and they're not on the team. So, the Thunder can buy out Melo and then stretch his deal over several years and he could then sign with another team. 

Here's the scenarios from worst to best:
1. Melo re-signs on a longer deal
2. Melo picks up his one season option
3. Melo opts out and leaves

I didn't add a scenario where Melo opts out and signs a lesser deal with the Thunder because I don't see it as plausible, but maybe I'm wrong. Of course, how these options influence PG is even more important. Re-signing PG is the most important things by far.

----------


## Urbanized

I've been told by more than one person whose info I trust that he can opt out and restructure with the Thunder. If this happens he could keep his protective trade clause intact but the upside for the Thunder is that they could get back value in a trade. Similar to a sign and trade. The upside to him is that he isn't on the open market so could dictate some terms in the contract to a team (the Thunder) that would like to lose his $27 million and the associated luxury tax. More protection to him than simply opting out, plus the Thunder receives whatever trade value they can get for a $10M Melo.

By the way, that is essentially option 1. in your list of options. All I'm saying is that it is done with an eye to a trade, which vaults it from worst option on your list to best option. I think the worst option for everybody concerned (including Melo) is that he just opts in for the $27 million.

----------


## dankrutka

Interesting. I definitely didn't think players could restructure deals in the NBA. I thought he'd have to opt out and do a completely new deal. But I'm no salary cap expert. Good question for Jon Hamm. 

On another note: Report: George will leave Thunder this summer

If PG3 is gone then that's pretty damaging, especially next year and for Russ' legacy. Fair or not, he'll likely be remembered as the superstar no one wanted to play with. Long wait until July 1st.

----------


## Jersey Boss

I took the time to research the stretch out option. Per the 2011 CBA, a team may stretch out a contract on a player they have waived. I could find no other reason. 
A team can stretch out a contract by multiplying by 2 the remaining years and add one.  In Melo's case that is total of three years of stretch. Because it is for players that have been waived, there is no player input on this if the team exercises it. Whether Melo stays or goes, it is my opinion that ultimately it is up to Westbrook. If he wants him here, he will be here.

 Dan two years ago you said Westbrook could not get a new deal and shortly after he did.

As far a Melo volunteering to do any  restructuring, it will have to benefit him. He does not need to leave money on the table and I would not be surprised if he would have to have his baby mama sign off on a deal that could impact support payments. If he does nothing he gets 28 million next year and then leave.  Then he goes  where it works best for him and get 8 million a year(what he is worth) for a couple more years, netting 44 million over 3 years.  Melo is not going to take a hit to make Presti look better.

If PG is gone the damage to  Presti is really damaging. He took a huge gamble on this and Melo working out and it looks like he could have made a multi million dollar goof.

Read more on the stretch option here:
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2011/11/28/...bad-contracts/

----------


## Urbanized

I used the term stretch here and I think it is the wrong term as that is specific to paying out a player who was waived. What I mean is that he can opt out to restructure. This can be done if both parties agree.

I'm not suggesting for a second that Carmelo would do something detrimental to his own bottom line, nor do I think he should. It's a business. He can certainly hold the Thunder's feet to the fire on the remainder of his contract, but I don't think that benefits him. If he can get a multi-year deal that roughly equals what he would get for those years on the open market, combined with the money remaining on his agreement, he can (and probably should) do that. It's good business for him and for the Thunder. If it can be structured in such a way that it is palatable to a team that wants to take a flyer on him, and if said team is willing to give up some decent assets to take a shot, once again it is good for him AND good for the Thunder.

Point being that opting out or riding out are NOT the only two options.

----------


## dankrutka

^^^
So, here, I think restructuring is also the wrong term. It would just be a completely new deal, not a restructuring of an old one. 

On the open market, I'm not sure Melo can get $5 million per year so I can't see how opting out is in his personal interest. And I think having Melo for more than one more year would be against the Thunder's interest... even if he was on a minimum contract. Melo's play was really detrimental to OKC in the playoffs (I was dead wrong and thought he might be helpful in the playoffs...he wasn't). Literally, kicking him off the team would have helped OKC's chances of winning tremendously. 

As to what I said about Westbrook's contract two years ago, I am sure I have been wrong plenty of times. Lol.

----------


## Urbanized

Hahaha $5 million? C’mon Dan...people dumb. Someone idiot is likely to pony up twice that. I mean, just last year someone thought he was worth 5x that money!  :Wink:

----------


## dankrutka

> Hahaha $5 million? C’mon Dan...people dumb. Someone idiot is likely to pony up twice that. I mean, just last year someone thought he was worth 5x that money!


We'll see. I don't think there's a $10 million offer out there. Opinions shift fast and the opinion around the league is that Melo is no longer a helpful player for a team, which may or may not be true. And, remember, Melo isn't going to open his market to the entire league. He's not going to play in Sacramento, Phoenix, or Orlando so his market is probably less than 10 teams, maybe less than 5. Since he'll limit his suitors, I could see it as being plausible that he only gets vet minimum offers.

----------


## Laramie

Dan, you are correct in your assessment; 'Opinions shift fast and the opinion around the league is that Melo is no longer a helpful player for a team...'

We agree that Melo fell far short of expectations.  
Melo's (Apathy) showed what he was all about in the game where Billy attempted to send him in to replace a tired Grant and Melo flat refused after Jerami canned a trey--saying he'll be alright and took a seat.  Did you see Maurice Cheeks get in Melo's ass?

Melo's contract expires after next season 2018-19.   Can you blame PG13 if he decides to leave.  

Presti brought Melo in; it's incumbent upon him to fix this.  Where I do fault Billy, you're the head coach, you need to take charge; our entire management & coaches  have gotten too comfortable in their roles--it's time to turn on the heat.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Where I do fault Billy, you're the head coach, you need to take charge; our entire management & coaches  have gotten too comfortable in their roles--it's time to turn on the heat.


The reality of today in the NBA is that it is a players league and coaching dictates go nowhere fast.  Unlike the Spurs, the coach is not the shot caller, it is the GM.  Donovan is severely restricted in what he can dictate or "request".

----------


## Laramie

> The reality of today in the *NBA is that it is a players league and coaching dictates go nowhere fast.*  Unlike the Spurs, the coach is not the shot caller, it is the GM.  Donovan is severely restricted in what he can dictate or "request".


Quin Snyder didn't have anything to do with the Jazz series win over the Thunder 4 - 2.   The Jazz lead the Rockets 56-37 in game 2; 2nd quarter in Houston with less than 6 minutes to go.   Big difference when you have players who know how to block out, space the floor & rebound.

----------


## dankrutka

> Melo's (Apathy) showed what he was all about in the game where Billy attempted to send him in to replace a tired Grant and Melo flat refused after Jerami canned a trey--saying he'll be alright and took a seat.  Did you see Maurice Cheeks get in Melo's ass?


I agree with your other comments, but Melo is the opposite of apathy... and I want a player to want to be in the game. I had no problem with Melo wanting in... that's passion and pride. But it was the right move to leave him on the bench. He shoudn't have come back in later either. But this is not a problem unique to the Thunder. Aging stars struggle with declining roles. Melo just got useless real quick.

----------


## Laramie

> I agree with your other comments, but Melo is the opposite of apathy... and I want a player to want to be in the game. I had no problem with Melo wanting in... that's passion and pride. But it was the right move to leave him on the bench. He shoudn't have come back in later either. But this is not a problem unique to the Thunder. Aging stars struggle with declining roles. Melo just got useless real quick.


So true!   

The pressure to put an overnight winner in the Big Apple took its toll on Anthony.   

Just didn't like Melo's comment about coming off the bench; hence OKC is not an assisted living center for aging emeritus superstars.

----------


## Laramie

Utah Jazz just defeated the Rockets in game 2 in Houston 116-108.

----------


## Anonymous.

Presti made it pretty obvious in his presser that they want Melo gone. He basically only had a spiel about Melo being a complete professional and a great player that sacrificed a lot. But after that, every reference about the team included Russ, PG, and Adams. I think it was obvious that Presti wants a core of Russ/PG/Adams/Grant/Dre.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^^^^
Would be a great core and a contender if it could be pulled off. Obviously would need a few other moves to be fully effective. Also a few other retentions would be nice if possible, starting with Felton.

----------


## warreng88

So, with the Thunder being out of the playoffs now, who is everyone rooting for? Personally, I am going for the Raptors or the 76ers. Thoughts?

----------


## Anonymous.

Mostly the Jazz... Maybe Lebron.

Basically anyone with a shot to overthrow the GSW regime. Rocket fans trash Russ and OKC for losing to the Jazz, now their series is going the exact same. Plus the way Harden plays is infuriating. 

Add to the fact that GSW purposely lost to the Jazz to avoid having to play OKC or Utah in the first round is another reason I want the Jazz to face them in the WCF.

----------


## warreng88

> Mostly the Jazz... Maybe Lebron.
> 
> Basically anyone with a shot to overthrow the GSW regime. Rocket fans trash Russ and OKC for losing to the Jazz, now their series is going the exact same. Plus the way Harden plays is infuriating. 
> 
> Add to the fact that GSW purposely lost to the Jazz to avoid having to play OKC or Utah in the first round is another reason I want the Jazz to face them in the WCF.


Personally, I am not going for any team in the West. I, obviously, don't want GSW to win and don't want the Rockets to win, because then we hear all about Harden and how bad that trade was. I would be ok with NO, but would prefer anybody in the east over any team in the West.

----------


## Jersey Boss

The Celtics- they are punching above their weight, great ball movement, and play a good team concept.

----------


## king183

Any salary cap experts out there: If PG decides to leave, that basically means we are screwed for the purposes of signing another elite level player because we would only have somewhere in the range of $10-11 million in cap space (assuming we buy out/trade Melo), right? 

Our contract obligations are at $137 million on a cap of $100 million/$120 luxury apron. Melo is owed $28 million and George $20 million (player option). So if George leaves, our obligations drop to $117 million. If we waive/buy out Melo or he opts out, our obligation is $89 million.  So we have ~$11 million in cap space to sign a free agent.  

I assume we would find a free agent willing to sign for that amount and then try to re-sign Jerami Grant using his Bird Rights, but keep us under the luxury apron to avoid the repeater tax. 

In fact, it looks like it will be 2020 before we get enough cap space to sign an elite free agent. 

I'm one who is slightly optimistic George stays, at least for another year, but I wanted to think through how this might affect our strategy going forward and I'm not a expert in the salary cap (though I'd like to be!)

----------


## Jake

If George doesn't sign, we're going to be in the 8-5 seed doldrums for the foreseeable future.

I think there's a chance he signs a one year deal, but I'm prepared for the worst.

----------


## Jersey Boss

Don't know if it means anything or not, but Gabe ikard claimed a rumor that George pulled his kid out of High School before the end of the term.


_Gabe Ikard‏Verified account @GabeIkard  5h5 hours ago  



Theres a rumor going around that Paul George pulled his kid out of Heritage Hall this morning. Just a rumor...but Im sure Thunder fans will take this well._

----------


## dankrutka

> Don't know if it means anything or not, but Gabe ikard claimed a rumor that George pulled his kid out of High School before the end of the term.
> 
> 
> _Gabe Ikard‏Verified account @GabeIkard  5h5 hours ago  
> 
> 
> 
> There’s a rumor going around that Paul George pulled his kid out of Heritage Hall this morning. Just a rumor...but I’m sure Thunder fans will take this well._


I'm pretty sure Paul George's daughter is 4 years old. Pulling a 4 year old out of school is not that big of a deal.

----------


## Urbanized

> Mostly the Jazz... Maybe Lebron.
> 
> Basically anyone with a shot to overthrow the GSW regime. Rocket fans trash Russ and OKC for losing to the Jazz, now their series is going the exact same. Plus the way Harden plays is infuriating. 
> 
> Add to the fact that GSW purposely lost to the Jazz to avoid having to play OKC or Utah in the first round is another reason I want the Jazz to face them in the WCF.


+1 everything in this post.

----------


## Urbanized

> I'm pretty sure Paul George's daughter is 4 years old. Pulling a 4 year old out of school is not that big of a deal.


Yeah, pulling a pre-schooler out to go home for the off-season is far less concerning than pulling a high schooler out with only a few weeks left, and even then it wouldn't necessarily mean that much. I don't recall specific's on PG's family, but since he is 28 I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a high schooler.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Yeah, pulling a pre-schooler out to go home for the off-season is far less concerning than pulling a high schooler out with only a few weeks left, and even then it wouldn't necessarily mean that much. I don't recall specific's on PG's family, but since he is 28 I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a high schooler.


Thanks. It must be a slow news day, ha ha.

----------


## dankrutka

Good salary cap article by Fred Katz: https://t.co/Nc074lYmwK

Salary cap wise, the best case scenario for the Thunder management is for Melo to opt out and use Patterson to get rid of Singler. Then re-signing Jerami Grant becomes less painful. If PG stayed, maybe him and Russ could lure some minimum salary vets to replace Collison and other open roster spots. Regardless of what happens, OKC won't have much money to add players. The salary cap stuff is mostly about how much luxury/repeater tax management will have to pay. There's no big reason for fans to worry about it. 

It's worth pointing out that OKC has lacked depth while Singler, Collison, and Dakari Johnson take up spots at the end of the bench.

----------


## Urbanized

Some really great commentary from The Ringer on Carmelo's season with the Thunder: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/5...playoff-legacy

----------


## Laramie

*Nick Collison, The Human Rock of Oklahoma City* 




> Oklahoma City Thunder forward Nick Collison announced today that he will retire after 15 years with the organization.


Veteran big man Nick Collison retires after 15 seasons in NBA:  http://www.nba.com/article/2018/05/1...on-retires-nba

Nick Collison: The Human Rock of Oklahoma City:  https://thunderousintentions.com/201...ame-okcs-rock/

----------


## Roger S

Sure would like to see him as a coach on either the Kansas or OKC bench but sounds like he wants to spend some time with his family and I can definitely appreciate that..... Rock Chalk & Thunder Up!!!

----------


## Laramie

*Nick Collison hit the winning shot in the Thunder's 1st win in the team's history.*

----------


## Anonymous.

Rocket's first seed achievement gets tossed into the wind in just 48 minutes. It is incredibly disappointing how KD has broken the league. The worst part is this Warriors domination isn't going to end anytime soon. They will be stomping everyone to the championship for the next 3 seasons.

Hope Kevin enjoys polishing his "hardest road" rings.

----------


## Sirsteve

> Rocket's first seed achievement gets tossed into the wind in just 48 minutes. It is incredibly disappointing how KD has broken the league. The worst part is this Warriors domination isn't going to end anytime soon. They will be stomping everyone to the championship for the next 3 seasons.
> 
> Hope Kevin enjoys polishing his "hardest road" rings.


To me whats so disappointing is we use to be the  Golden state warriors with Durant, Westbrook, and Harden and the future looked so bright. The main difference is they are winning championships and we couldn't and it looks like now we are stuck in a scenario where we make the playoffs but as a 5 through 8 seed and bounced in the first or 2nd round while they continue their dominance and that is a bitter pill to swallow.

----------


## Anonymous.

Well the luckiest team in NBA history gets lucky again as the Chris Paul injury paved the way for the Warriors to give us everyone's favorite matchup in the finals for the 4th consecutive season.

Snake and friends in 5 over Lebron.

----------


## Thomas Vu

If iggy didn't go down, it would have arguably ended in 5.

----------


## ditm4567

Brian Davis is out as Thunder play-by-play announcer.

----------


## jn1780

> Brian Davis is out as Thunder play-by-play announcer.


When your an announcer, you better not say something stupid. Especially when your contract is up for renewal.

----------


## Bellaboo

> When your an announcer, you better not say something stupid. Especially when your contract is up for renewal.


I've noticed that he's having a hard time keeping up with the game. Cage was having to correct him a lot this year.

----------


## sooner88

Just to get my hopes up, I heard Lebron's family toured Heritage this weekend.

----------


## Thomas Vu

Melo "surprisngly" opted in.

----------


## tyeomans

> Just to get my hopes up, I heard Lebron's family toured Heritage this weekend.


Where did you hear this?

----------


## warreng88

Paul George declines player option to become a free agent. Not saying he won't resign with OKC, but it won't be for the 20.7MM.

----------


## Urbanized

Yeah, really doesn’t mean much of anything other than he is worth more money than his player option. This move was expected.

----------


## d-usa

Basically the same boat as KD declining to become a free agent with the Warriors this summer as well.

----------


## shawnw

> Yeah, really doesn’t mean much of anything other than he is worth more money than his player option. This move was expected.


So you think he could still end up staying?

----------


## OKCretro

> So you think he could still end up staying?


declining the player option was just a formality.  If he didnt decline it OKC could have made him player here next year for the 20.8.  

the more shocking move would have been if it has accepted it.

----------


## shawnw

Ah okay. I just presumed it meant bye-bye.

----------


## king183

> declining the player option was just a formality.  If he didnt decline it OKC could have made him player here next year for the 20.8.  
> 
> the more shocking move would have been if it has accepted it.


Shocking and scarier for OKC as it would have portended an imminent trade.

----------


## Urbanized

> So you think he could still end up staying?


Yes (operative word being "could"). As pointed out above it does't really mean it is more likely that he is staying OR going. He was going to do it either way.

----------


## Laramie

> Yes (operative word being "could"). As pointed out above it does't really mean it is more likely that he is staying OR going. He was going to do it either way.


Sounds more like a formality with player contracts.   Still think he's gone; he could be a short term annual rental option.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^^^^
He just played his way into more money. It was a business decision. Nothing more. Has zero bearing on whether or not he is staying.

Also, I'd say I'd go a little better than 50/50 that he stays right now, especially after hearing similar statements from people like Woj.

----------


## Laramie

> ^^^^^^^^^
> He just played his way into more money. It was a business decision. Nothing more. Has zero bearing on whether or not he is staying.
> 
> Also, I'd say I'd go a little better than 50/50 that he stays right now, especially after hearing similar statements from people like Woj.


A ray of hope.   We should have kept the guys we had around Westbrook; especially Oladipo, Lauvergne & Sabonis.   To think that 2017-18 roster only won one more game than the 2016-17 group when you consider we added George & Anthony was a gamble gone wrong.   Got to admit, it looked like a winner prior to the season.

A  healthy Roberson will help the defense, but he so venerable  at the charity stripe.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> A ray of hope.   We should have kept the guys we had around Westbrook; especially Oladipo, Lauvergne & Sabonis.   To think that 2017-18 roster only won one more game than the 2016-17 group when you consider we added George & Anthony was a gamble gone wrong.   Got to admit, it looked like a winner prior to the season.
> 
> A  healthy Roberson will help the defense, but he so venerable  at the charity stripe.


We would’ve had a really great roster if KD had stayed but those peices just didn’t really fit well around Westbrook without another all star. We needed to go after George which I think was a good move. Anthony on the other hand was proabably a mistake though I would’ve liked to have seen more of him playing in the starting line up with Roberson healthy. Statistically our starting line up was one of the best in the league after they got used to playing together and before Roberson went down.

----------


## Laramie

.


NBA Free Agency Rumors: Paul George Strongly Considering Signing 2-3 Year Contract With Thunder
By Dan Duangdao - 06/30/2018






> It has been hard to ignore the whispers steadily rising in volume for the past month that George, the All-Star forward, is strongly considering signing a two- or three-year deal to stay with the Oklahoma City Thunder.


Strongly Considering Signing 2-3 Year Contract With Thunder:  https://www.lakersnation.com/nba-fre...er/2018/06/30/

----------


## Celebrator

Done deal. He's staying! Just reported.

----------


## kevin lee

Plus Nas came in town to party! Win Win

----------


## Jake

Night couldn't have gone better for the franchise. Wow.

----------


## Laramie

.
*Paul George free agency rumors: Star free agent, OKC Thunder agree to four-year, $137 million deal* https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/p...-million-deal/

----------


## Easy180

This guys says the Lakers dodged a bullet lol. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thebigl...er-lakers/amp/

----------


## bluedogok

> Melo "surprisngly" opted in.


He knew that after his performance the past few seasons he wasn't going to get a better contract as a free agent.

----------


## okatty

> This guys says the Lakers dodged a bullet lol. 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/thebigl...er-lakers/amp/


As if the Lakers would not have matched that if they could have in a second!    LA has to be kicking themselves for not making a push for George from the Pacers.  Instead, they were greedy and tried to have him fall in their laps out of free agency.  Swing and a miss!

----------


## Laramie

The original ownership group led by Clay Bennett's plans in the late 90s to bring an NHL franchise to OKC thought that we were capable of averaging 12,500 fans per game, the border line for break-even.  They gauged the gravity of our city's potential after the NBA Hornets test run.

Bennett's vision saw a major league franchise as an opportunity for a positive image investment as well as a potential write-off; it has payed off state wide seeing Oklahoma in a positive light.  Steinbeck's book the Grapes of Wrath published '39 - Nobel prize '62 left a lasting impression of Oklahoma's suffrage during the double-dip hit of the Dust Bowl ('30-'36) - Depression ('29-'39) eras that saw a 30% exodus of the state's population. 

Oklahoma City & Tulsa are moving in the direction of many great cities like Dallas-Fort Worth, Denver, Kansas City, Houston & Minneapolis-St. Paul.   Look for more corporate moves with help from 5 universities (OU, OSU, UCO, TU & OCU) and aggressive cities with initiatives like Tulsa's (Vision 2025) & OKC's (MAPS/Bonds).

The recent passage of SQ 788 shows a diverse Oklahoma ready for challenges of the 21st Century (Just my opinion, y'all).  Get ready, OKC-TUL have brighter days ahead.

Californians like Westbrook & George willing to spend time in Oklahoma when their birth state presents comparable opportunity does attest to the sound financial footing of the Thunder's ownership _(Kaiser, Bennett, Records, Cameron, Dodson, Howard II, Scaramucci)._

----------


## Laramie

Getty Images/Ringer illustration

----------


## king183

> This guys says the Lakers dodged a bullet lol. 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/thebigl...er-lakers/amp/


Hahahaha

----------


## warreng88

Now that RW, Dre, PG and Adams are all signed to long term contracts, what happens with Melo? Does he get bought out, stretched or traded with the Thunder covering the overage? Also, when does the trade timeline end?

----------


## Laramie

.

*HAPPY 10TH ANNIVERSARY*

----------


## ShadowStrings

Does anyone know if there's a place to buy a shirt with the generic "Oklahoma City Basketball" logo we had before we settled on the Thunder name? I've looked online in the past with no success. Probably a long shot, but I figured I'd ask. I kind of liked the design. 😊

----------


## Laramie

.

Photo by Ronald Martinez/Getty Images#3 Center  6' 11", 220 lbs (Age 24)

Report: Thunder sign Nerlens Noel to two-year deal:  http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/...0/nerlens-noel

----------


## Bellaboo

> Does anyone know if there's a place to buy a shirt with the generic "Oklahoma City Basketball" logo we had before we settled on the Thunder name? I've looked online in the past with no success. Probably a long shot, but I figured I'd ask. I kind of liked the design.


I've got a used one of those shirt - well worn too.

----------


## Laramie

.
Thunder's 2018 NBA Summer League roster beginning to take shape:  https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/...l-most-popular

Terrance Ferguson
Daniel Hamilton
P.J. Dozier
Dakari Johnson
Devon Hall
Kevin Hervey
Hamidou Diallo
Deonte Burton
Awudu Abass

----------


## dankrutka

I really liked the Nerlens Noel signing. He has a lot of potential. It's low risk with him on a minimum deal.

----------


## Anonymous.

It really sucks that Russ and PGs primes are being wasted by the ridiculousness that is Snake and friends.

With our ownership balling out with luxury tax right now, the thirst to dethrone them is insane. Presti has done fantastic, but it just feels like a waste. I really hope Roberson comes back near 100% - we need everyone.

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## PhiAlpha

> It really sucks that Russ and PGs primes are being wasted by the ridiculousness that is Snake and friends.
> 
> With our ownership balling out with luxury tax right now, the thirst to dethrone them is insane. Presti has done fantastic, but it just feels like a waste. I really hope Roberson comes back near 100% - we need everyone.


Yeah DeMarcus Cousins signing with them for $5 million a year has to be a joke...

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## Laramie

.
An Achilles heel injury on an NBA athlete especially Cousins when you consider his 270 lb., weight; he may never recover from this injury.  He could re-injure or favor the injury to the point that his other Achilles' tendon snaps.

He's a risk, they know it.   A recurring injury could happen in practice or a game where he gets excited, forgets about his condition and gets caught up in the moment.

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## Jersey Boss

> I really liked the Nerlens Noel signing. He has a lot of potential. It's low risk with him on a minimum deal.


I hope he stays away from the media buffet at the Chesapeake.

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## ditm4567

Thunder and Carmelo Anthony to part ways...

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...hony-part-ways

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## Anonymous.

Dodged a huge bullet there. Our lineup with Grant instead of Melo is the winner.

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## bluedogok

Hopefully that happens, I never thought he was a good fit there.

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## dcsooner

nm

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