# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Tulsa & Suburbs >  Restaurant Scene TUL vs OKC

## Celebrator

So, we had a great burger today at Fat Guy's in Tulsa, but still think that both RePUBlic and S&Bs are quite a bit better.  I came home and looked at Tulsa's UrbanSpoon.com Top 100 list of restaurants http://www.urbanspoon.com/lb/58/best-restaurants-Tulsa and P.F. Chang's was NUMBER 3!  The number three restaurant in Tulsa is a national chain!  Not even a local or regional chain...which their number 2 restaurant is (McNellie's)!  What is up with that?  Is the restaurant scene over there really that limited?  

If you look at OKC's Top 100 list http://www.urbanspoon.com/lb/46/best...-Oklahoma-City, the first national chain that appears on the list is at number 42--The Melting Pot. And there is not even a local chain until number 15, Saturn Grill...at least that is what I think at a quick glance.

How do you explain this?  Are the restaurant scenes _that_ much different in these two cities?

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## Spartan

Oh dear...this thread is gonna be fun.

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## kevinpate

Perhaps the difference is not related to the eating establishments as much as it is related to who frequents urbanspoon for each community.

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## adaniel

I'll take the bait.

As someone who has ate at a lot of restaraunts in both cities, I have so say that Tulsa's dining scene is actually very good. Why PF Changs and McNellies is on urbanspoons lists so high, I can't really say. But they do have a ton of fantastic local establishments. Just of the top of my head...McGills (fine dining), The Brook (American/Burgers), Webers (Root Beer/Burgers), Tsunami (Sushi), that is just in one area. OKC has plenty of chains itself, although I will say the dining scene here is drastically better than when I moved here 6 years ago. As for who's best, its really a coin flip. More specifically one city may have a leg up depending on the type of food, but both towns are big "eating out" cities so its kind of a wash.

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## z28james

I like OKC's better, TUL has some good ones, but IMO OKC has a larger volume of better dining as a whole.

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## BG918

If you lump Norman into OKC then I would say OKC.  Otherwise they are very similar.  Tulsa used to win hands down but OKC has made lots of strides in the past 5-10 years.  Most of my favorite places in OKC are relatively new.  OKC will always have the upper hand with Vietnamese due to the Asian District.  There is nothing, at least on that scale, like that in Tulsa.

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## Celebrator

> Perhaps the difference is not related to the eating establishments as much as it is related to who frequents urbanspoon for each community.


Point well-taken, perhaps the foodies over there have another site they like better for reviews and discussion of restaurants.

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## BG918

This is a good resource for Tulsa restaurants:

http://tulsafood.com/

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## Spartan

I haven't had as many good dining experiences in Tulsa as I have OKC and Norman just because I'm not that familiar with Tulsa's restaurant scene, whereas I probably know the OKC restaurant scene like the back of my hand. So it's always going to end up being where you're most familiar.. because you can't go by ratings, or by buzz.. the best restaurants, or the hottest one that just opened up, is something best left to the locals. 

For whatever reason, I have a lot of friends in Tulsa and at TU who aren't as restaurant savvy as I am. I know my way around Tulsa very well, and I know the main restaurants and stuff, I just don't know what's good and I don't have enough experience to tell what's a winner. Really, it's no wonder that the people who live in OKC always vote for OKC in topics like this, and the Tulsans vote Tulsa...

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## Bunty

> I haven't had as many good dining experiences in Tulsa as I have OKC and Norman just because I'm not that familiar with Tulsa's restaurant scene, whereas I probably know the OKC restaurant scene like the back of my hand. So it's always going to end up being where you're most familiar.. because you can't go by ratings, or by buzz.. the best restaurants, or the hottest one that just opened up, is something best left to the locals. 
> 
> For whatever reason, I have a lot of friends in Tulsa and at TU who aren't as restaurant savvy as I am. I know my way around Tulsa very well, and I know the main restaurants and stuff, I just don't know what's good and I don't have enough experience to tell what's a winner. Really, it's no wonder that the people who live in OKC always vote for OKC in topics like this, and the Tulsans vote Tulsa...


 How do you keep from being fat from knowing the Oklahoma City restaurant scene like the back of your hand?     Or are you?  Or do you also go only by word of mouth what a restaurant is like?  IF I went to restaurants more often than I do now, then I'd definately go over 200lbs.

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## lasomeday

Hands down Tulsa has better restaurants!  It it wasn't for the large Lebonese population in OKC, Tulsa would be 10 times better.

Spartan is a hoss!  He knows his food.  He is probably pushing 150.

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## Spartan

> Hands down Tulsa has better restaurants!  It it wasn't for the large Lebonese population in OKC, Tulsa would be 10 times better.
> 
> Spartan is a hoss!  He knows his food.  He is probably pushing 150.


LOL. 155, thank you very much...I guess I'm pretty high-energy. I sure eat like a fatty..

Home-cooked meals in my family are just not something that really happens.

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## Snowman

> ...  I came home and looked at Tulsa's UrbanSpoon.com Top 100 list of restaurants ... How do you explain this?  Are the restaurant scenes _that_ much different in these two cities?


Urban spoon rankings are pretty hit and miss. Tastes vary and they don't really attempt to factor individual tastes into rankings (since you can only as so much of social rankings before no one would do it). Sampling size can also be an issue, I have seen good places with only a few to a dozen ratings, if some are people who caught it at the worst time of day or a server having a bad day can totally screw the results. Also ratings are affected by expectations, a chain has lower expectations so don't have to live up to as much to get a fair/good, verses a great place really has to deliver to that person that single or every time. People tend to report bad or under-their-expected ratings much more than positive or great ratings.

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## ljbab728

> People tend to report bad or under-their-expected ratings much more than positive or great ratings.


That's exactly what I have mentioned before in the food thread and was lambasted for saying that.  I know that it's true though.  It's why I don't pay much attention to those kind of revues.

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## Floyd

Use this website next time, it's excellent: http://tulsafood.com/

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## okcpulse

> Hands down Tulsa has better restaurants!  It it wasn't for the large Lebonese population in OKC, Tulsa would be 10 times better.
> 
> Spartan is a hoss!  He knows his food.  He is probably pushing 150.


Hands down?  That's a pretty lofty declaration.  I frequent both scenes and from a non biased perspective, both cities are ahead of one another in different establishments, tastes and creativity.

Individual food taste complicates things.  So does preference.  For instance, Tex Mex is my favorite.  But because I like my Tex Mex to be full of flavor and spice, there are at least a dozen restaurants in OKC that meets my taste.  In Tulsa, far less.  Doesn't mean the dining establishments in Tulsa aren't as good, I just don't like dressing on my Taco Salad.  

However, because I am now in my 30s and not as active, I cook at home now to stay at 165.  I'll dine once in a great while.

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## Spartan

> Hands down?  That's a pretty lofty declaration.  I frequent both scenes and from a non biased perspective, both cities are ahead of one another in different establishments, tastes and creativity.
> 
> Individual food taste complicates things.  So does preference.  For instance, Tex Mex is my favorite.  But because I like my Tex Mex to be full of flavor and spice, there are at least a dozen restaurants in OKC that meets my taste.  In Tulsa, far less.  Doesn't mean the dining establishments in Tulsa aren't as good, I just don't like dressing on my Taco Salad.  
> 
> However, because I am now in my 30s and not as active, I cook at home now to stay at 165.  I'll dine once in a great while.


You frequent Tulsa restaurants? I thought you were in Houston and couldn't come up to OKC that often..and yet you also get to make it to Tulsa frequently? Also to call a bluff, your posts are always "from a non biased perspective" and yet always go against any city other than OKC, your favorites to downgrade are of course Houston and Tulsa.

Furthermore, you're trying to tell us that Tulsa and OKC have distinct yet different tastes when it comes to food? I'm sorry, but that's rich, and not in a palatable way. Before I decided I had to respond to this post, I actually stared at my screen and tried to think of what the "OKC taste" is...and started laughing. Same for Tulsa. I guess it's kinda weird that we Okies eat pizza with ranch...is that the "OKC taste" because they do that in Tulsa, too, as much as they'd like to pretend they're too good for that. 

There's no such thing as Okie Mex. I can not think of a single dish that is synonymous with Okie. I mean, our restaurant fare is pretty much a mix that would be typical of anywhere in the southeast (fried foods) or southwest (steak/mexican), and just as it so happens, those are the two regions we sort of straddle the border of. Shocking, I know. So I just have no idea what you're talking about with these "dining scenes."

I will say it's pretty obvious that having a Wolfgang Puck restaurant sort of elevates Tulsa's "dining scene." I'm not sure it does anything to give Tulsa it's own unique flavor when it comes to food, but it does sort of add to the prestige of the scene. I guess you could say it gives Tulsa a closer connection to "dining scenes" that legitimately are pioneering their own flavor.

There are great food cities in the country. New Orleans (cajun/creole). Kansas City (bbq). Memphis (bbq). Chicago (pizza). Cincinnati (chili). Philadelphia (steak sandwiches). It's not so much a holistic reflection on the entire city..I'd argue that OKC and Tulsa are very unique, but in terms of food, come on, we're all just eating the same ol same ol, and that's a fact. There just aren't that many cities that truly have their own food flavor. I would argue that KC and St. Louis are pretty much a draw in urban terms, amenities, redevelopment, etc etc ... but in terms of food, St. Louis is just like OKC, Tulsa, and every other city--obviously KC is different.

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## bombermwc

Yeah i'll go with Spartan here. You'll find more Tex Mex than you would, say, in the southeast, and more fried than in the northwest. But neither city has a "scene" different than the other. There are just as many non-chain places in OKC as in Tulsa, and same for chains. Whoopie. 

Not to say there isn't some great food to be had...heck we've got every ethnicity you can imagine. But neither has a leg up on the other.

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## Floyd

Another regional restaurant group enters Oklahoma: http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/a...1_CUTLIN475645

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## Swake2

Tulsa’s has some foods that would be particularly Tulsa and are certainly ingrained into the city’s food culture. Tulsa’s foods would have to include The Coney, Chili, BBQ, Hamburgers and Lebanese Steakhouses. 

Tulsa’s Coney is a small hotdog on a steamed bun with Greek style chocolate flavored chili served with cheese, onion and topped with Cayenne Pepper. The original Coney Island downtown had its 85th anniversary just last week. Between the Original and the Coney Islander chain that was spun off years ago and all the independent Coney places there have to be 20-25 Coney places in and around Tulsa. Some of them serve Greek food with the Coney’s. Then from the north side of Town, there’s Tulsa’s BBQ, which is very tender smoked beef brisket and ribs with a hot BBQ sauce. Places like Wilson’s, Elmer’s and Big Daddy’s. And then we have all the Lebanese style Steak Houses serving cabbage rolls and tabouli as appetizers served at places like Jamil’s, Freddie’s and The Silver Flame. Then there’s Tulsa’s classic burger. Thin, grilled on a flattop with cheese with Onion Rings served at places like Brownie’s, Hank’s and Webber’s that have all been around for more than 50 years. Then we have the Chili houses, Ike’s and Ron’s, they all serve flattop burgers too. 

Some Tulsa Institutions that you need to eat at, most of these have been open for over 50 years:

Coney Island downtown
Steakfinger House downtown
Hanks and Webbers on Brookside
Ike’s Chili house on Admiral
Elmer’s BBQ on Brookside
Jim’s Never on Sunday Coney’s and Greek Food on Harvard
Wilson’s BBQ on Apache
White River Fish Market by the airport
Jamil’s Steakhouse on 51st
Freddie’s in Sapulpa
Brownie’s on Harvard

Some other Tulsa institutions, serving great food, but not serving a particularly Tulsa style of food:
The Celebrity Club on Harvard
The Polo Grill in Utica Square (generally considered by AAA and such as the best restaurant in Oklahoma)
McGill’s by Utica Square, on Yale and in The Hard Rock Casino
The Spudder on Sheridan
The French Hen on Yale
Bodean Seafood on 51st

There might well be an OkieMex style of food emerging, but that’s been happening only in the last 10-20 years and isn’t there yet. 15 years ago Mexican food in Tulsa was pretty dismal, but that has changed a lot with the huge influx of Hispanics into the state. The good Okiemex (or whatever you want to call it) places would be places like Senior Tequila’s, Mexico Lindo, El Tequila and Compadres. They aren’t authentic, but are generally pretty good.

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## BG918

> Tulsa’s has some foods that would be particularly Tulsa and are certainly ingrained into the city’s food culture. Tulsa’s foods would have to include The Coney, Chili, BBQ, Hamburgers and Lebanese Steakhouses. 
> 
> Tulsa’s Coney is a small hotdog on a steamed bun with Greek style chocolate flavored chili served with cheese, onion and topped with Cayenne Pepper. The original Coney Island downtown had its 85th anniversary just last week. Between the Original and the Coney Islander chain that was spun off years ago and all the independent Coney places there have to be 20-25 Coney places in and around Tulsa. Some of them serve Greek food with the Coney’s. Then from the north side of Town, there’s Tulsa’s BBQ, which is very tender smoked beef brisket and ribs with a hot BBQ sauce. Places like Wilson’s, Elmer’s and Big Daddy’s. And then we have all the Lebanese style Steak Houses serving cabbage rolls and tabouli as appetizers served at places like Jamil’s, Freddie’s and The Silver Flame. Then there’s Tulsa’s classic burger. Thin, grilled on a flattop with cheese with Onion Rings served at places like Brownie’s, Hank’s and Webber’s that have all been around for more than 50 years. Then we have the Chili houses, Ike’s and Ron’s, they all serve flattop burgers too. 
> 
> Some Tulsa Institutions that you need to eat at, most of these have been open for over 50 years:
> 
> Coney Island downtown
> Steakfinger House downtown
> Hanks and Webbers on Brookside
> ...


So which city has the original Coney, OKC or Tulsa?  Both have downtown coney restaurants that started in the 20's and are still around.  Tulsa has more of them now though with Coney Islander locations throughout the city.  How unique is the Coney to Oklahoma, and which style (OKC or Tulsa) do you like better?

http://www.eataroundokc.com/coney-is...ty-since-1924/

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n16635809/

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## Spartan

I believe the Coney would probably be unique to Brooklyn, or more specifically, Coney Island...

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## Floyd

Wikipedia says it's from Detroit.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coney_Island_hot_dog  I can't imagine there's any regional difference between Tulsa and OKC coneys.

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## BG918

> Wikipedia says it's from Detroit.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coney_Island_hot_dog  I can't imagine there's any regional difference between Tulsa and OKC coneys.


Sounds like a good Gazette article to find out.  The ones here are unique compared to other cities - steamed buns, type of chili, shredded cheese, onions, mustard, type of hot dog (the one on Main in OKC uses a red dog and the ones in Tulsa are brown), etc.

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## HOT ROD

while I agree both cities tend to have similar cuisine when it comes to American palates, OKC is hand's down the leader when it comes to ethnic food and particularly Asian. This mostly comes from OKC being much more of an immigrant city and it's restaurant scene reflects that (ie, organic 'authentic' food establishements). This is especially true in the districts and neighbourhood ghettos of OKC like Asian District, Capital Hill, and Midtown and others.

Tulsa tends to be a bit more upscale and national chain oriented in general - not a bad thing, but definitely different than OKC's 'immigrant based' cuisine offerings in my opinion.

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## Spartan

OKC is not an immigrant-based city...

The crazy is really flowing in this thread. And how on earth is Mid-town a "neighborhood ghetto of OKC" (I assume you mean ethnic neighborhood) ?? I'm guessing you haven't been to Mid-town...Cafe do Brazil is about as ethnic as it gets...

James E. McNellie's is pretty ethnic, though.

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## Floyd

> while I agree both cities tend to have similar cuisine when it comes to American palates, OKC is hand's down the leader when it comes to ethnic food and particularly Asian. This mostly comes from OKC being much more of an immigrant city and it's restaurant scene reflects that (ie, organic 'authentic' food establishements). This is especially true in the districts and neighbourhood ghettos of OKC like Asian District, Capital Hill, and Midtown and others.
> 
> Tulsa tends to be a bit more upscale and national chain oriented in general - not a bad thing, but definitely different than OKC's 'immigrant based' cuisine offerings in my opinion.


When was the last time you made the journey from Seattle to Tulsa to sample the ethnic food offerings there?  Or are you just making things up?  Just curious.

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## Floyd

> Sounds like a good Gazette article to find out.  The ones here are unique compared to other cities - steamed buns, type of chili, shredded cheese, onions, mustard, type of hot dog (the one on Main in OKC uses a red dog and the ones in Tulsa are brown), etc.


That would be a DELICIOUS article to research.

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## dankrutka

> So which city has the original Coney, OKC or Tulsa?  Both have downtown coney restaurants that started in the 20's and are still around.  Tulsa has more of them now though with Coney Islander locations throughout the city.  How unique is the Coney to Oklahoma, and which style (OKC or Tulsa) do you like better?
> 
> http://www.eataroundokc.com/coney-is...ty-since-1924/
> 
> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n16635809/


First, Coney Islander in Tulsa is 100 times bettern than the coney place downtown. Having said that, I am a Tulsan living in OKC. I love Tulsa and have come to love OKC. On the whole, OKC has better restaurants, but it is really because of what has happened recently. I'm a big fan of Good Egg and I think they've raised the bar in general. Unfortunately, I've gained 15 lbs since I've been in OKC...

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## metro

OKC hands down, although yes Tulsa has some good restaurants but not near the diversity or quantity. If someone wants to pay for the research and create a scoring sheet, I'm up for the challenge.

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## kevinpate

My favorite Tulsa place ... wasn't.  I still sometimes miss the Avalon Supper Club.

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## Spartan

I ate at the Blue Dome Diner and it was pretty terrible. I would encourage people visiting Tulsa to avoid at all costs. Wanted to go to Joe Momma's but the wait was longer than I could do.

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## Urban Enthusiast

> I ate at the Blue Dome Diner and it was pretty terrible. I would encourage people visiting Tulsa to avoid at all costs. Wanted to go to Joe Momma's but the wait was longer than I could do.


What did you have?  My favorite thing there is the pancakes with walnuts (best pancakes I've ever eaten).  I'm not terribly crazy about their potatoes though.

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## Floyd

> OKC hands down, although yes Tulsa has some good restaurants but not near the diversity or quantity. If someone wants to pay for the research and create a scoring sheet, I'm up for the challenge.


What were the last five restaurants you visited in both cities?

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## HOT ROD

> When was the last time you made the journey from Seattle to Tulsa to sample the ethnic food offerings there?  Or are you just making things up?  Just curious.


I was in Tulsa last year, for some business. I wasn't very impressed with the diversity of food offerings and the city seemed more run down than I remember. I hope you guys can pick things up.

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## Urban Enthusiast

> OKC hands down, although yes Tulsa has some good restaurants but not near the diversity or quantity. If someone wants to pay for the research and create a scoring sheet, I'm up for the challenge.


Okay, so here's a little analysis.  I used InfoUSA data based on the following two NAICS codes (note: this analysis only looks at quantity, not diversity).

7221 Full-Service Restaurants
This industry group comprises establishments primarily engaged in providing food services to patrons who order and are served while seated (i.e., waiter/waitress service) and pay after eating. Establishments that provide these type of food services to patrons with any combination of other services, such as carryout services are classified in this industry.

7222 Limited-Service Eating Places
This industry group comprises establishments primarily engaged in providing food services where patrons generally order or select items and pay before eating. Most establishments do not have waiter/waitress service, but some provide limited service, such as cooking to order (i.e., per special request), bringing food to seated customers, or providing off-site delivery.

Tulsa - 389,625 pop est; 1,010 restaurants; 385.77 persons per restaurant
MSA - 929,015 pop est; 1,778 restaurants; 522.51 persons per restaurant

OKC - 560,333 pop est; 1,349 restaurants; 415.37 persons per restaurant
MSA - 1,227,278 pop est; 2,536 restaurants; 483.94 persons per restaurant

So, OKC does have more restaurants, but not per capita.  The fact it has more makes sense, since it is 3 times the size of Tulsa in terms of land area.  As for diversity, I have no idea. . .

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## Swake2

> I was in Tulsa last year, for some business. I wasn't very impressed with the diversity of food offerings and the city seemed more run down than I remember. I hope you guys can pick things up.



Where did you stay and where did you eat?

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