# Everything Else > Arts & Entertainment >  SMG - Management of Chesapeake Energy Arena

## jdg78

Pete - I know you mentioned earlier in the summer you were considering investigating the conflict of having SMG managing both the Peake and BOK Center.  I was curious if you had dug anything up?  I have held the opinion SMG has done a terrible job bringing events to OKC since the BOK hit its stride.   It seems Tulsa has received the majority of first leg shows in the state.  I would also encourage everyone to just look at each venues website.   The Peakes is a joke.   I know this is a minor thing but when comparing it to the BOKs site, that clearly plasters The States Premier Venue across each page, it makes me wonder.   Also, SMG has done a masterful job of publishing puff pieces in Billboard magazine and other trades regarding the BOK.  

 Check this out:  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bil...VUMdYsWrJF-RSw

Does SMG deploy 360 marketing for the Peake?  What are they doing to provide a world class experience for the artists when they are in town?  Seems to me SMG is under selling the Peake.  Pretty obvious when in the article above the GM at the BOK indicates 41% of ticket sales come from outside of the Tulsa area.  How many come from OKC?   Im guessing a lot as I head to Tulsa 4-5 times a year for shows.  Why are we accepting this level of management in a publicly subsidized arena?

Funny story.   I received a survey from SMG regarding my experience at the recent Smashing Pumpkins show at the Peake.  I left several comments questioning SMGs ability to market the Peake as a premier venue for music and directly questioned the apparent conflict with the BOK Center. I made the point that OKC is a first run city and we should be getting more first run shows.  Especially since the BOK gets the first run then the artist comes to OKC (Garth, Timberlake, Bruno Mars, and etc.).  I have received several follow up surveys from SMG since.... My point in bringing this up is I believe the more pressure we put on SMG the more likely this will change..

Looks like Carrie Underwood is coming to OKC first before Tulsa next year... its a start.  I would love for Pete to take a deep dive in SMG and ratchet up the heat on them.

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## jdg78

Oh.... for what it’s with SMG just brought in a new GM for the Peake who was previously at the arena in Sioux Falls.  Is this an indication of SMG’s perception of our market?  I would think we would to try to bring in someone with experience in a larger market closer to the size of OKC.

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## jonny d

> Oh.... for what it’s with SMG just brought in a new GM for the Peake who was previously at the arena in Sioux Falls.  Is this an indication of SMG’s perception of our market?  I would think we would to try to bring in someone with experience in a larger market closer to the size of OKC.


Well, that would be a lateral move. Very rarely do people make those. Sioux Falls to OKC is an upward move. More reasonable. Just my opinion, though. Especially if SMG promotes from within.

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## Pete

I'll see what I can find out.

Tulsa is a significantly smaller market yet they seem to get a disproportionately large percentage of the arena shows that come to the state.

Thunder only have 41 home games plus a bit for the playoffs.

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## jdg78

Great point Johnny d.  

Pete -  I have heard that Bank of Oklahoma and possibly the Kaiser Family Foundation provide certain guarantees to purchase unsold tickets.  This is a hell of an incentive for some artists and seems highly likely as Tulsa does seem to get a tone of early to mid week shows that are 100% sold out.  The Peake does have a ton of Friday and Saturday shows when we actually get them.

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## jedicurt

> I'll see what I can find out.
> 
> Tulsa is a significantly smaller market yet they seem to get a disproportionately large percentage of the arena shows that come to the state.
> 
> Thunder only have 41 home games plus a bit for the playoffs.


yes, but the thunder ownership group is exactly the problem... i don't have any links, because it was personal conversations... but the "thunder don't want to share" stance is what killed OKC getting an ECHL hockey team owned by the Dallas Stars ownership group.   And i know someone with some insight into SMG, and they have said on numerous occasions that for all events, the demands that the thunder put on, due to their influence, typically causes them to not be a good financial decision, hence BOK gets more of those events.

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## jdg78

Correction.   Tulsa does seem to get a ton of early to mid week shows that are not 100% sold out.

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## Pete

> yes, but the thunder ownership group is exactly the problem... i don't have any links, because it was personal conversations... but the "thunder don't want to share" stance is what killed OKC getting an ECHL hockey team owned by the Dallas Stars ownership group.   And i know someone with some insight into SMG, and they have said on numerous occasions that for all events, the demands that the thunder put on, due to their influence, typically causes them to not be a good financial decision, hence BOK gets more of those events.


Reminder that the City owns the arena, SMG manages it on the city's behalf, and the ownership group is all local and are supposed to be acting in the best interests of the entire community.

I'm not saying I have confirmed that the Thunder ownership are the issue but that possibility deserves investigation.


It would be very interesting to figure out how much lost revenue the city experiences due to lack of concession sales, parking, hotel rooms and general dinner and bar traffic these events bring to downtown.

We already know that the Thunder generates a ton of money in all these same ways.

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## jedicurt

> Reminder that the City owns the arena, SMG manages it on the city's behalf, and the ownership group is all local and are supposed to be acting in the best interests of the entire community.
> 
> I'm not saying I have confirmed that the Thunder ownership are the issue but that possibility deserves investigation.
> 
> 
> It would be very interesting to figure out how much lost revenue the city experiences due to lack of concession sales, parking, hotel rooms and general dinner and bar traffic these events bring to downtown.
> 
> We already know that the Thunder generates a ton of money in all these same ways.


that would be very interesting to see.  I can only speak on second hand accounts... but i know from someone within DSE Hockey Club, that when they sat down with all parties involved, that the reason the city said it wouldn't be interested was the affect it would potentially have on the facility for basketball.   so we basically have a building that is hardly used most of the year, because of a tenant that uses it slightly more than 10% of the year.  atleast that was what i was told was the opinion from that person when they left after the talks

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## Pete

^

The Thunder actually only use that arena for part of 10% of the days.

As we've discussed elsewhere, in other markets arenas often host 2 or even 3 events in a single day.

A Thunder game takes about half a day at most.

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## jdg78

It makes sense the Thunder would have a say regarding another sporting franchise occupying the arena.  However, it would be fascinating to understand the SMG agreements with both the Peake and BOK Center.  Both buildings are publicly funded and the contracts should be available.   As a citizen of OKC, I would love to know why we get fewer first run shows and what is causing this?   Is it a bias by SMG or a underlying financial arrangement made by the City of Tulsa, BOK, & or the Kaiser Foundation that ensures Tulsa gets first dibs on all shows.  

My opinion is this is either caused by gross incompetence and or fraud by SMG or incompetence on the OKC City Council / Jim Couch for not ensuring we are maximizing thhe Peake’s potential.   You can’t tell me with our resources at the city level that the city wouldn’t be aware of what assistance the city of Tulsa may be providing to ensure the BOK is being utilized.   Similar to city incentives for the Omni to attract conventions and or other incentives to bring in new retail.   City of OKC seems to be very in tune with the regional competition for tourism and retail but not the arena?  Seems fishy to me.  Why is Tulsa killing it and heavily publicizing the 10th anniversary of  the BOK with surprise show announcements?  Did  we do this for the Peake?  Why not?  We are all paying for this venue.  We should be getting more shows!

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## Pete

In the end, it's the City's job to manage and evaluate SMG's performance.

I suspect SMG is not getting much push-back which is why we continue on with them when there are other good alternatives.

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## jonny d

> In the end, it's the City's job to manage and evaluate SMG's performance.
> 
> I suspect SMG is not getting much push-back which is why we continue on with them when there are other good alternatives.


What are these other arena management alternatives you speak of? That truly would be interested in managing an arena in OKC.

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## jdg78

Pegulas or AEG?  Surely, SMG doesn’t manage every major arena in the country.

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## Pete

> What are these other arena management alternatives you speak of? That truly would be interested in managing an arena in OKC.


Besides SMG, AEG and Spectra are major players.

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## jonny d

My thing is, would those ventures want to manage an arena in OKC? AEG manages mega arenas in huge cities, for the most part. I agree OKC needs to do something, just not sure what is lay people can do.

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## Swake

> My thing is, would those ventures want to manage an arena in OKC? AEG manages mega arenas in huge cities, for the most part. I agree OKC needs to do something, just not sure what is lay people can do.


AEG not only manages the Sprint Center in Kansas City, which is not that much larger a city than OKC, but Philip Anschutz (the "A" in AEG) owns the Oklahoman.

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## kukblue1

Does Tulsa have a bit more of a population it can reach than OKC.  Meaning like Joplin and Springfield MO.  Fort Smith. Stillwater and get people from OKC.    Okc gets what Lawton?

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## jedicurt

i keep saying... it's all about revenue split.   due to the contract with OKC arena, events must be mostly or near full to even break even.   in tulsa, slightly over 30% occupancy for an event can break even.

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## BoulderSooner

> Does Tulsa have a bit more of a population it can reach than OKC.  Meaning like Joplin and Springfield MO.  Fort Smith. Stillwater and get people from OKC.    Okc gets what Lawton?


okc people are also much more willing to drive to tulsa for shows   than they are to drive here

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## Laramie

Sure, OKC show goers don't mind the drive to Tulsa.   At what point does the pilgrimages to T-town reach a point of over saturation when we have a comparable arena here in our city.

Does the City need to do more to equip the Peake for shows--does our arena not match up to BOK Center or is it a matter of more dollar available in the Tulsa market.  My question, which of these facilities are better equipped for shows, BOK Center or the Chesapeake Arena?

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## BoulderSooner

i think our arena show match up pretty well with tulsa

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## jedicurt

> i think our arena show match up pretty well with tulsa


agreed. and it isn't that tulsa market has more dollar available.   has to do with the fact that the City allows the thunder group to dictate terms and take their share of revenue, and even get their special treatment for those shows.   it's that you could have the event in both places, and have the same attendance, and it makes money in tulsa for SMG, but loses money for them in OKC.   that is why they put more there.   

same ticket prices, same attendance, same concession sales, everything... they bring in even revenue, because of the way OKC allows things to happen and people get their hand in the pot here, the break-even point in tulsa is significantly lower, and thus the potential for everyone to get paid and make some money is greater in tulsa.  ergo... they get more events

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## Urbanized

No offense to anyone, but there are a lot of assumptions/conclusions in this thread which aren't entirely accurate. It's a topic of particular interest to me (concerts specifically) so I have been looking into it a bit. Some of the things I've discovered will probably surprise folks. Some of them surprised me. I will post more when I have time.

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## BG918

> Does Tulsa have a bit more of a population it can reach than OKC.  Meaning like Joplin and Springfield MO.  Fort Smith. Stillwater and get people from OKC.    Okc gets what Lawton?


Tulsa can pull from Northwest Arkansas (Fayetteville-Bentonville-Springdale-Rogers) which is a metro of over 500,000 about 2 hours away.  It is a growing area (15th fastest growing metro in the U.S. between 2000 and 2017) with a healthy economy that will travel to Tulsa for concerts and events.

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## Swake

> Tulsa can pull from Northwest Arkansas (Fayetteville-Bentonville-Springdale-Rogers) which is a metro of over 500,000 about 2 hours away.  It is a growing area (15th fastest growing metro in the U.S. between 2000 and 2017) with a healthy economy that will travel to Tulsa for concerts and events.


Springfield (500k+), Joplin (200k+) and Ft Smith(200k+) are all also less than 2 hours from Tulsa.

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## BG918

> Springfield (500k+), Joplin (200k+) and Ft Smith(200k+) are all also less than 2 hours from Tulsa.


Springfield is closer to 3 hours from Tulsa and also 3 hours from STL.  While some may come down from that area I would put Joplin/NW Arkansas/Fort Smith squarely in Tulsa's sphere of influence.  Also SE Kansas but it's not a highly populated area (likely similar to western OK outside of OKC).

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## Swake

> Springfield is closer to 3 hours from Tulsa and also 3 hours from STL.  While some may come down from that area I would put Joplin/NW Arkansas/Fort Smith squarely in Tulsa's sphere of influence.  Also SE Kansas but it's not a highly populated area (likely similar to western OK outside of OKC).


You must drive slower than I do. Google has it at 180 miles downtown to downtown and even if you drive the 75 mph speed limit you would be there in 2 hours 20 minutes. I can hit St Louis in five hours and Springfield is not the halfway point.

There aren't many people and even less money in southeast Kansas.

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## kukblue1

plus some artist might see OKC as too close to Dallas.   3 hours away where Tulsa is 4 1/2.  So if they do Dallas and Do Tulsa they probably can grab some people from OKC.

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## kwhey

> yes, but the thunder ownership group is exactly the problem... i don't have any links, because it was personal conversations... but the "thunder don't want to share" stance is what killed OKC getting an ECHL hockey team owned by the Dallas Stars ownership group.


Another reason, I stopped supporting the Thunder.  Always me, me, me, me.  Not to mention the time the time they got pissy because the Barons put huge banners on the Cox to announce the starting of one of the seasons and the Thunder demanded that they be taken down.  The weak child that the city is told them to take them down. The Thunder can go stick it in their ear.

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## Jersey Boss

Wow, never heard that before.  If true that would certainly make this hockey fan think twice about attending Thunder events in the future.

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## benjico

> Another reason, I stopped supporting the Thunder.  Always me, me, me, me.  Not to mention the time the time they got pissy because the Barons put huge banners on the Cox to announce the starting of one of the seasons and the Thunder demanded that they be taken down.  The weak child that the city is told them to take them down. The Thunder can go stick it in their ear.


I think I remember that banner. It said something like "Think Outside the Ball" and was aimed at people leaving Thunder games. Kinda seemed almost like a shot to the Thunder. I can see why they wouldn't want that type of advertisement in a space they normally control (if that's the banner you're speaking of).

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## Jersey Boss

If that is the case than that is some major league insecurities.  A major league team taking issue with the advertising by a minor league entity in a different sport?  Puhleeeze. If the Thunder put the kibosh on the ECHL team that is truly an example of bad citizenship.

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## GoThunder

> If that is the case than that is some major league insecurities.  A major league team taking issue with the advertising by a minor league entity in a different sport?  Puhleeeze. If the Thunder put the kibosh on the ECHL team that is truly an example of bad citizenship.


Is there any evidence or first hand knowledge that the Thunder killed the ECHL team, or is this just a rumor?  Not saying I have any information either way but it seems like we are talking about unsubstantiated rumors here.

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## jonny d

> Is there any evidence or first hand knowledge that the Thunder killed the ECHL team, or is this just a rumor?  Not saying I have any information either way but it seems like we are talking about unsubstantiated rumors here.


Shhhhh.  Don't spoil the "everything OKC sucks" thread.

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## Jersey Boss

> Is there any evidence or first hand knowledge that the Thunder killed the ECHL team, or is this just a rumor?  Not saying I have any information either way but it seems like we are talking about unsubstantiated rumors here.


That is why my comment was prefaced with "If the Thunder...". Maybe Jedi has something more definitive.

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## jedicurt

> Is there any evidence or first hand knowledge that the Thunder killed the ECHL team, or is this just a rumor?  Not saying I have any information either way but it seems like we are talking about unsubstantiated rumors here.


i have had a face to face conversation with someone who works for the Stars ownership group, and was in OKC to discuss the potential of their ECHL team being here. these conversations took place in late 2015, early 2016, with the hope of having had the team play their first season this past year (the 2017-2018 season).  but it fell through and the stars re-upped their agreement with the Idaho Steelheads.   

The decision for them to take total control of their minor league system came when Tom Gaglardi made the decision in 2014 to purchase the Texas Stars (their AHL affiliate since 2010) so that the team had a total control of not only their brand, but their development prospects.  Stars ownership (Tom Gaglardi) has made it abundantly clear that they did not get along with mangement of the Allen Americans (in allen texas) and that is why they ended their development affiliation with them after just two seasons, back in 2011.   And the Stars have a long standing dislike for the Stevens Brothers that goes back to the mid 2000's, and they own both the Tulsa and Wichita teams.  so OKC became the viable option, because it would be something they would own (much like their AHL team), and have marketing control over, and thought it would be more successful than the Barons, because it would bring back the rivalries with both Tulsa and Wichita which lead to some great Blazers years.  

so that's the history lesson.   But i was told in my face to face conversation, that the some people were really excited about the possibility, especially with the Stars being so close, and this opening up the door for maybe getting a preseason exhibition of the stars each year, and things like that.   and said that for 2 days the conversations where going well, and then on the third day, the OKC group came in and said, that basically everything that had been talked and worked through involving a merch store, any branding of any kind, build out for locker rooms for the hockey team, and whether ice could remain between games, had all come into jeopardy, because the thunder ownership thought it would diminish their product.  and that basically the previous two days had been a waste of time. 

due to the fact that i still use this source for Dallas Stars information (as we are long-time friends) I will keep who they are and what position they hold out of this... but let me just say that if and when the stars are looking for affiliates, either by contract or owning them, this person would be in the know and would absolutely be involved in those conversations.

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## jedicurt

and as for the banners on the Cox center... i was on the Barons season seat holder Advisory Board at the time... and i can tell you that we were told by prodigal that the reason for removal was the thunder, and them claiming that they had the rights for all advertising on that stretch of reno during basketball season.     I don't have anything to go on except the word of Prodigal, which i don't trust at all after my experiences with being a member of that board... so take that lightly that it is the full story..   there might be much more in play... Prodigal loved (and probably still do) to blame everyone but themselves for everything.

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## jedicurt

one last note.  i also know that the St. Louis Blues were in OKC in early 2015 (after the announcement that the barons would not be returning).  They actually had a contingent of 7 people who were in town and actually at a barons game.  this is how i know.  i just walked up to them all in their very nice STL Blues themed suits and tie's and asked them why they were in OKC. and they said they were just scouting the market as a potential future development location.   I do not know if this would have been their ECHL, or their AHL (although i do know at that time they were having contract issues with their agreement with the AHL Chicago Wolves).  I also do not know if it went any further than this one trip where they were looking at the city.   But did want to throw that out as more information.

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## BDP

> they bring in even revenue, because of the way OKC allows things to happen and people get their hand in the pot here, the break-even point in tulsa is significantly lower,


Interesting. What are the arrangements that allow this to happen and how do they function?

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## LordGerald

I might remind everyone that the OKC Blazers asked to be primary tenants when the Ford Center opened. At that time, it was ludicrous that an arena would be built to NBA/NHL standards, only to house a minor league hockey team. I believe the Council negotiated terms that the Blazers would get scheduling priority UNLESS an NHL or NBA team came available. In 2005, thanks to Hurricane Katrina, those terms were exercised, giving the Hornets scheduling priority for the then Ford Center.

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## jedicurt

> I might remind everyone that the OKC Blazers asked to be primary tenants when the Ford Center opened. At that time, it was ludicrous that an arena would be built to NBA/NHL standards, only to house a minor league hockey team. I believe the Council negotiated terms that the Blazers would get scheduling priority UNLESS an NHL or NBA team came available. In 2005, thanks to Hurricane Katrina, those terms were exercised, giving the Hornets scheduling priority for the then Ford Center.


yes but there is a difference between having scheduling priority and not allowing another tenant at all

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## jedicurt

> Interesting. What are the arrangements that allow this to happen and how do they function?


My understanding is that part of the set up for the suites is that ticket purchases for all events right now (even non-basketball) the thunder still get their share of that ticket cost, which is not insignificant

and it would be difficult for revenue to be even for same attendance as certain major thunder partners are able to keep some of their highly discounted premium seats for concert events (or in the case i was specifically told about recently, boxing match) and therefore these seats are not sold at a price that allows for SMG to make much of their money back.    So this ends up in the amount earned by ticket sales to much less as a large chuck of your higher dollar tickets are not available for public sale at the higher price. 

Those are just two things i have heard specifically about. 

as for the specific arrangements that allow this to happen, i do not know the piece that allowed for those arrangements. perhaps it has nothing to due with the thunder but their donations and support for the arena as a whole... but those that are getting these benefits are also tied very close to the thunder, so perhaps it just appears that it is the thunder behind this situation. 

Again, this is just my understanding of some of the things in place that makes it more profitable for SMG to have events at BOK as compared to Peake.   i'm still hoping Urbanized is able to shed some light on what he has found that he mentions back in post #24.

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## Jersey Boss

^^^^ Thanks so much for contributing your insights and knowledge to this topic.

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## Urbanized

> My understanding is that part of the set up for the suites is that ticket purchases for all events right now (even non-basketball) the thunder still get their share of that ticket cost, which is not insignificant
> 
> and it would be difficult for revenue to be even for same attendance as certain major thunder partners are able to keep some of their highly discounted premium seats for concert events (or in the case i was specifically told about recently, boxing match) and therefore these seats are not sold at a price that allows for SMG to make much of their money back.    So this ends up in the amount earned by ticket sales to much less as a large chuck of your higher dollar tickets are not available for public sale at the higher price. 
> 
> Those are just two things i have heard specifically about. 
> 
> as for the specific arrangements that allow this to happen, i do not know the piece that allowed for those arrangements. perhaps it has nothing to due with the thunder but their donations and support for the arena as a whole... but those that are getting these benefits are also tied very close to the thunder, so perhaps it just appears that it is the thunder behind this situation. 
> 
> Again, this is just my understanding of some of the things in place that makes it more profitable for SMG to have events at BOK as compared to Peake.   i'm still hoping Urbanized is able to shed some light on what he has found that he mentions back in post #24.


Yes, sorry it has been a busy few days. I do have info to share but it's just been tough to find time to set down and share it. One thing I do know, however :definitively the Thunder does NOT get revenue from non-basketball events. So someone steered you wrong on that one. The Thunder's agreement only gives them control over the suites and premium areas.

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## Urbanized

Basically the suite holders get their suite's tickets to all of the events held in the building. It is a part of their deal with the Thunder, and the Thunder's agreement with the City gives the team control of this (standard in an NBA arena). If you are a suite holder, you want very much for there to be TONS of non-basketball events, and the Thunder in turn ALSO wants tons of events because it makes it easier to charge big $$ for the suites. Regarding the terrace suites, the arrangement is that terrace suite ticket holders have first right of refusal for all events in those spaces, but revenue goes to the venue/promoter, and if they don't exercise their right to purchase those tickets then revert to the building/promoter to sell.

But regarding the Thunder not wanting other events, this is one of the assumptions being made here that I believe is a critical interpretive error taking place in this discussion. That is, the reality ACTUALLY is that the Thunder is highly-motivated for there to be lots of cool stuff in the building. And in fact it is my understanding that they aren't shy about championing this.

That said, I know zero about their feelings regarding sharing the buildings with other teams. I suspect it would be difficult for any minor league team to make a go of it in the building though, and this isn't specifically due to the Thunder; it is just a very expensive building to rent. And unless you can cover that in sales it is a tough fit. It doesn't help that suite sales would be off the table (because of course the premium areas were transferred to the primary tenant, the Thunder, which is again a standard NBA deal these days). But even then most minor league teams can't command enough revenue out of suites to help make much of a dent the big rent check, even if they had access.

By the way, access to premium areas, advertising sales and the like is not unusual and even causes friction when two major league tenants share a building. In fact in the example often cited of the Staples Center, the Clippers have been considering leaving because the Lakers own all of this stuff and it is difficult for the Clips to derive revenue now standard for NBA teams.

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## jdg78

Urbanized- Great insight.   So, in your opinion what do you believe cause the BOK to attract more first readers n shows?

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## jdg78

Correction.  Causes BOK to attract more first run shows?

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## jdg78

Also,  it seems the BOK has more shows throughout the year.

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## Urbanized

Well, found out some interesting data on that also. It’s not as disparate as I previously thought, with some of the past few years where OKC actually had more Pollstar top 50 acts than did BOK, which I was personally surprised about. And in general our performance there is closer than I expected. It’s an interesting topic, and I wish I had regular access to the paid version of Pollstar because that’s the best way to compare and I’d love to dig around more. But Pollstar is expensive and it really only makes sense if you’re in the business.

To fully answer your question there are a combination of factors and I sort of need to go through and post in a way that will make it easy to understand.

But to cut right to the chase, to properly measure the performance of Chesapeake the correct measure is not to compare vs BOK (or Sprint Center in KC or Intrust Arena in Wichita or Verizon Arena in Little Rock) or any other non-NBA arena. The Thunder DOES have some impact on bookings, and I’ll explain more later.

But by the same token it also isn’t fair to compare to Staples, or Madison Square Garden, or even American Airlines in Dallas. Those are cities that artists and promoters leave big gaps for during tour planning, as they wait for NBA and NHL schedules to be released. And OKC is not one of those cities, and likely never will be. What IS fair when evaluating the performance of our arena is to compare to NBA arenas in similarly-sized markets (Memphis, Salt Lake, San Antonio and others). In which case we do very well.

If you’re going to compare to BOK or other non-NBA arenas you have to consider the 41+ game nights and call them what they are; 41+ rock concerts in their own right. In which case, our building outperforms this in a pretty incredible fashion. Simply put, our buildings have different business models.

That said, there are a number of reasons I think we will be seeing a shift towards even more shows at Chesapeake, which is some great news as a music lover.

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## jedicurt

thank you urbanized.  so it there is something related to suites and the premium area's with regards to the thunder, so good to know that they have control of those as i was led to believe, but it makes since that they don't get revenue from all of that, as that is pretty standard across leagues.  

and i don't think the thunder is opposed to other events in the arena, i hope that hasn't been what i have been saying... i just know they were opposed and nixed the deal with the Stars for the ECHL.  and as for whether they are able to make money or not... for a private group running it, and just having an affiliation with an NHL team, i think you are correct. but the reason that several of your teams that are run by very active businessmen, they seem okay with running their minor leagues at a bit of a loss, if the cost for moving players back and forth between clubs is able to make up some of that difference. right now they are having to ship players (at their expense) from idaho to austin anytime they make a roster move, which in the NHL farm system, can be often. and sometimes even just for a game and then back.  So several have started to decide that running an ECHL team at a loss is acceptable because they have to have an ECHL team affiliation, and even though they are at a loss, they of set costs as a whole when you look at ever line item across all of the owned and managed teams.

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## Urbanized

You're welcome jedicurt. I think this is all great conversation to have, because I myself had some assumptions that have proven to be incorrect as I've looked into things more.

So there were indeed discussions with ECHL team owner, including multiple meetings with City and the then-GM of SMG. The Thunder had little if any involvement.

But the talks were not regarding Chesapeake; they were actually regarding the Cox Center. The issue that the ECHL team ultimately got stuck on was that there were no long-term guarantees that Cox will be here after convention center opens, as this has yet to be resolved. So...if ECHL moves here into a building that makes sense for them RIGHT NOW, but that building is (potentially) unavailable a few years later, they are back to square one, looking at a building (Chesapeake) which doesn’t make sense for them. So eventually they decided not to make the move and the discussions fell apart. Based on this it seems like the long-term future of Cox would need to be resolved before we could entertain a minor league franchise like that one.

I think that may be one of the reasons the person or people you spoke to might have characterized it as being about the Thunder. In other words, the Thunder's agreements on Chesapeake arena regarding premium areas, in-arena advertising and etc. make it difficult for any team that is NOT the Thunder to derive revenue in Chesapeake Arena, a building where the rent is going to be high for them anyway. So Chesapeake is sort of out of the question, and Cox is a question mark.

But it's not really an effort by the Thunder to keep other teams away, but instead it's the fact that their agreement - which again is pretty typical of recent NBA building agreements in view of rocketing player salaries and the like - effectively soaks up every potential revenue stream, for understandable reasons.

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## jedicurt

thanks Urbanized... i'm going to follow back up with them and confirm this on their side.   I'll post back here once i have talked with them

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## Jersey Boss

Urbanized, thanks for taking the time to not only delve into this matter, but writing an informative post as well.

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## Urbanized

You're welcome guys, hoping this brings clarity to the topic. It has for me and I'm glad I asked, and fortunate to know some of the people involved. Along those lines I don't recall if I mentioned that I met the new SMG General Manager yesterday after a Convention and Visitors Bureau Commission meeting. Very impressive guy who apparently came from a building that over-performed for its market size when it comes to entertainment.

Here is a Sioux Falls newspaper article about his departure: https://www.argusleader.com/story/ne...oma/773340002/




> *A leader who played a central role in boosting the Denny Sanford Premier Center into an internationally recognized venue* is moving up to a job in Oklahoma.
> 
> Chris Semrau, assistant general manager of the Premier Center, has been hired as the general manager of the Chesapeake Energy Arena and Cox Convention Center in Oklahoma City. The Chesapeake Energy Arena is home to the NBA's Oklahoma City Thunder.
> 
> I am thrilled with all that has been accomplished at the Premier Center and am fortunate to have had a small fingerprint on ongoing success of the venue," Semrau said. "Sioux Falls is an outstanding community and I have full-confidence the Premier Center will continue bring in great events create lasting memories for the region.
> 
> Semrau moved to Sioux Falls in 2014 to open the Premier Center. *He was in charge of booking, marketing, sales, event services, media relations and premium seating*.
> 
> *"It was only a matter of time, and he deserves the opportunity," said Terry Torkildson, general manager of the Premier Center. "Hes the most qualified (assistant general manager) in the country."*
> ...


Here is an industry article on the move: http://ampthemag.com/the-real/smg-na...ention-center/

And here is a Pollstar article: https://www.pollstar.com/article/smg...-center-135864 

Here is an Arena industry article (obviously many of these working from news releases): https://arenadigest.com/2018/07/12/s...semrau-new-gm/

 He literally just arrived in OKC. I believe he will be joined by others with similarly impressive resumes. I'm feeling pretty optimistic.

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## Urbanized

The next piece of the puzzle (and additional staff that I mentioned) has been announced publicly announced: http://ampthemag.com/the-real/michae...ention-center/




> SMG has announced that Michael Owens will take over as Assistant General Manager of Chesapeake Energy Arena and Cox Convention Center in Oklahoma City. Owens will oversee the booking, ticketing and marketing efforts for the complex.
> 
> *Owens most recently worked as Director of Live Entertainment for Rogers Arena and the NHLs Vancouver Canucks in Vancouver, British Columbia. Under his leadership, the arena had consecutive record-breaking years hosting the biggest names in music and sports.*
> 
> Michael is a highly respected professional with a strong record of booking achievements, said Chris Semrau, General Manager, Chesapeake Energy Arena and Cox Convention Center in a release. We are thrilled to add someone with the *strong booking skill set and industry relationships* which Michael possesses so we may continue to create unforgettable guest experiences and secure high-level events and artists.
> 
> In addition to booking top-selling artists at Rogers Arena in Canada, Owens successfully negotiated and won bids for major, globally-broadcast events including the 2018 JUNO Awards, the massive e-sports tournament  The International DOTA2 team championship and the 2019 IIHF World Junior Hockey Championships.
> 
> Prior to relocating to Vancouver, *Owens spent four years as Director of Booking for BOK Center, an SMG-managed facility in Tulsa, Oklahoma. During his tenure, BOK Center was recognized as a top-20 arena in the United States for concert ticket sales each year according to Pollstar* and was nominated as Arena of the Year by the Academy of Country Music 2012  2015.
> ...

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## jdg78

Urbanized - Thank you for all of the fantastic information!   Why do think all these changes are occurring?  Do these moves have anything to do with the extension of SMG’s contract?  I understand the BOK and Peake have different business models, but shouldn’t the Peake be performing a much higher level?   Thoughts?

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## Urbanized

^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes I believe it has very much to do with renewal of agreement. I’m sure that City expressed to SMG that they were very happy overall with SMG’s management of the building but still would definitely like to see an increase in non-basketball event nights. I believe there were additional performance measures put into the new agreement.

Also I know now that - contrary to what many of us here might have thought - the Thunder advocates pretty strongly for there to be MORE events in the building, and I’m sure some of these changes are in response to encouragement from the City’s main, high-profile and very important tenant.

I also expect that the addition of the new convention center has caused SMG to focus renewed energy on the OKC market.

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## Urbanized

> ...I understand the BOK and Peake have different business models, but shouldn’t the Peake be performing a much higher level?...


Oh, and sorry, I didn’t directly address this part of your post, though I alluded to it in previous posts. By the standard of JUST concerts (meaning removal of Thunder games from the equation), I discovered that Chesapeake was actually performing much closer to BOK than I myself had thought. It’s true that BOK had slightly more bookings over a number of years, but Chesapeake also had years where it outperformed BOK.

But when you add the Thunder into the mix, it’s not even close. By that standard Chesapeake outperforms BOK... ...by a LOT. So, if we are looking at the building as taxpayers we get far more value and performance from our investment.

That said, the City, Thunder and SMG all clearly believe that we could/should secure more concerts and non-basketball entertainment, and it’s pretty clear from the new agreement and the new hires that they have prioritized this. I’m especially encouraged that they brought in the guy largely responsible for BOK’s impressive run of bookings (who since performed similarly in Vancouver, in a building which hosts an NHL franchise). He should have no problem applying the same game plan and relationships in OKC, a larger, more populous city with more available entertainment dollars and a rapidly-improving live music scene.

It will no doubt not happen overnight, but I’d wager Chesapeake will eventually measurably outperform BOK on concerts alone. Give it some time.

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## Urbanized

Oh, I also wanted to mention some of the actual NBA-related logistics that admittedly DO affect bookings, and have to be worked around by the building and by promoters. Before the NBA season is released, the building is required by the NBA to reserve 75 nights for potential games. Recall that the regular season is 41 home games. So the NBA blacks out those nights, and nothing can be booked.

If an exceptional opportunity emerges, SMG and the team can appeal to the NBA to release the night in question, but recall that for the league, crafting a schedule for 30 teams in 28 different cities - all with different priorities - and paying attention to things like TV agreements, featured players, matchups and rivalries - is a very complicated process and takes months. The league doesn’t care much for special requests and does not encourage them.

When the schedule comes out and the reserved nights are released, the building can allow promoters to book. But recall, the 2018 season was just released a week ago, and the pre-season begins in only a little over a month. Big tours are usually booked many months in advance, and sometimes as much as a year. So in many cases, if the tour overlaps the NBA season, it is very challenging to find a night.

To the point that Staples or MSG or wherever still manage -sometimes even with multiple franchises in the building - that’s absolutely correct. But obviously, artists and promoters prioritize LA and NYC, Chicago, even Dallas. These are tier one markets and artists are not NOT going to play there. So they hold open slots just for these cities, find ways to make it work.

Cities like OKC (or Memphis, San Antonio, SLC, etc) have no such luxury. As a rule artists and promoters don’t care whether they are playing OKC, Tulsa, Wichita, Little Rock, Omaha, Kansas City. They only care about a full building and moving on to the next city. So if it’s simply easier and the path of least resistance to book one of those cities I mentioned, that’s how they are inclined to proceed.

This is where relationships, reputation etc CAN make a difference, and this is why the addition of the new SMG personnel should make us all a bit more optimistic.

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## BDP

Totally makes sense. And the 75 reserve days would certainly make a significant difference, especially when considering we are comparing BOK and Chesapeake. That could easily cause BOK to be the only choice for 5-6 shows a year looking to book the Oklahoma market during that span. It's just not that big of difference, especially when you consider Tulsa is only 1 and half hours from OKC. Some of the people who drive an hour and a half to see a show at the Staples Center live in the same city as the arena. Ha.

I think in the end, we're not really going to know which shows were booked in one city over the other as a conscious decision, either by the talent's booking agent or by arena management. All I know is that if I was a decision maker at SMG and a show was offered to us on an either/or basis, I'd prefer to place it in Tulsa if it was a viable act for the market, just to make sure I could justify the contract the next time around.

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## Urbanized

^^^^^^^^
To be clear though, the management of the Chesapeake Arena and the management of the BOK - while both employed by SMG - still are competitors to a very large extent. As in, nobody is sitting at SMG making a decision of whether a show goes to one place or another. They are both out hustling shows as if the other building doesn't even exist. I mean, if OKC has a date conflict I'm sure they recommend sending it to Tulsa as a courtesy, but they each have their own performance benchmarks spelled out in agreements with their respective municipalities. In the case of OKC I know that the new SMG agreement has raised the stakes a bit for SMG, so once again I believe they will pretty jealously be guarding any shows made available to them.

The biggest difference is that if they were not both SMG it would probably be a bit of a bloodbath. That is, if it was say SMG and AEG staring at each other down the highway they would both be playing the incentive game and trying to one-up each other constantly using money that currently they presently aren't having to spend, or at least in OKC they are not. Which means sacrificing building revenue in favor of guarantees and other incentives to the artists, promoters and booking agents. I think that is one thing worth noting in regards to the original point of this thread. The bad news for OKC is that we have a (very nice) competing venue 90 miles down the road. The GOOD news is that we aren't in a bidding war with them.

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## jedicurt

> ^^^^^^^^
> To be clear though, the management of the Chesapeake Arena and the management of the BOK - while both employed by SMG - still are competitors to a very large extent. As in, nobody is sitting at SMG making a decision of whether a show goes to one place or another. They are both out hustling shows as if the other building doesn't even exist. I mean, if OKC has a date conflict I'm sure they recommend sending it to Tulsa as a courtesy, but they each have their own performance benchmarks spelled out in agreements with their respective municipalities. In the case of OKC I know that the new SMG agreement has raised the stakes a bit for SMG, so once again I believe they will pretty jealously be guarding any shows made available to them.
> 
> The biggest difference is that if they were not both SMG it would probably be a bit of a bloodbath. That is, if it was say SMG and AEG staring at each other down the highway they would both be playing the incentive game and trying to one-up each other constantly using money that currently they presently aren't having to spend, or at least in OKC they are not. Which means sacrificing building revenue in favor of guarantees and other incentives to the artists, promoters and booking agents. I think that is one thing worth noting in regards to the original point of this thread. The bad news for OKC is that we have a (very nice) competing venue 90 miles down the road. The GOOD news is that we aren't in a bidding war with them.


talked last night again with my Stars contact.  read him your post, and they agreed with about 85% of it as is.  and stated that the last 15% was probably related to being on one side of the equation rather than the other...   they said their perspective is that the city felt that the Cox center was the real choice and that the city kept pushing for that.  they were still really interested in playing in the Peake, because the facility has the better amenities, and said the cox was never an option when the city kept presenting it because there was no long term plan for it.  So really close to what you heard as well. just a slightly different perspective

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## Urbanized

Gotcha. Understandably different perspectives.

Just to be clear to other interested readers, while jedicurt quoted my post about concerts and etc., but he was actually referencing this post:




> You're welcome jedicurt. I think this is all great conversation to have, because I myself had some assumptions that have proven to be incorrect as I've looked into things more.
> 
> So there were indeed discussions with ECHL team owner, including multiple meetings with City and the then-GM of SMG. The Thunder had little if any involvement.
> 
> But the talks were not regarding Chesapeake; they were actually regarding the Cox Center. The issue that the ECHL team ultimately got stuck on was that there were no long-term guarantees that Cox will be here after convention center opens, as this has yet to be resolved. So...if ECHL moves here into a building that makes sense for them RIGHT NOW, but that building is (potentially) unavailable a few years later, they are back to square one, looking at a building (Chesapeake) which doesn’t make sense for them. So eventually they decided not to make the move and the discussions fell apart. Based on this it seems like the long-term future of Cox would need to be resolved before we could entertain a minor league franchise like that one.
> 
> I think that may be one of the reasons the person or people you spoke to might have characterized it as being about the Thunder. In other words, the Thunder's agreements on Chesapeake arena regarding premium areas, in-arena advertising and etc. make it difficult for any team that is NOT the Thunder to derive revenue in Chesapeake Arena, a building where the rent is going to be high for them anyway. So Chesapeake is sort of out of the question, and Cox is a question mark.
> 
> But it's not really an effort by the Thunder to keep other teams away, but instead it's the fact that their agreement - which again is pretty typical of recent NBA building agreements in view of rocketing player salaries and the like - effectively soaks up every potential revenue stream, for understandable reasons.

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## BDP

> ^^^^^^^^
> To be clear though, the management of the Chesapeake Arena and the management of the BOK - while both employed by SMG - still are competitors to a very large extent. As in, nobody is sitting at SMG making a decision of whether a show goes to one place or another. They are both out hustling shows as if the other building doesn't even exist. I mean, if OKC has a date conflict I'm sure they recommend sending it to Tulsa as a courtesy, but they each have their own performance benchmarks spelled out in agreements with their respective municipalities. In the case of OKC I know that the new SMG agreement has raised the stakes a bit for SMG, so once again I believe they will pretty jealously be guarding any shows made available to them.
> 
> The biggest difference is that if they were not both SMG it would probably be a bit of a bloodbath. That is, if it was say SMG and AEG staring at each other down the highway they would both be playing the incentive game and trying to one-up each other constantly using money that currently they presently aren't having to spend, or at least in OKC they are not. Which means sacrificing building revenue in favor of guarantees and other incentives to the artists, promoters and booking agents. I think that is one thing worth noting in regards to the original point of this thread. The bad news for OKC is that we have a (very nice) competing venue 90 miles down the road. The GOOD news is that we aren't in a bidding war with them.


Makes sense. They're accountable to their specific arena and the agreements in place first. Usually there's plenty to go around anyway. Honestly, I think most of the dissatisfaction occurs when a show someone wants to see plays in Tulsa and not here, and if something plays here that they don't want to see, it doesn't "count" in their mind. As you've pointed out, it's actually much closer than some represent.

I got this email from the Thunder today and found it sort of relevant to this discussion:




> As you may be aware, Trans-Siberian Orchestra (TSO) will be returning to Chesapeake Energy Arena on Dec. 5. We have been informed that, if we were to offer a purchase opportunity for our Season Ticket Members to their show, you would be charged more per ticket than the price available to the general public.
> 
> Due to this pricing structure, we have declined the option to offer a purchase option, on behalf of our Season Ticket Members.


This would indicate that the ticket offer agreement with the Thunder is not necessarily compulsory, and productions _can_ negotiate on that point.

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## bluedogok

For the late 70's and into the 80's many  bands alternated between OKC and Tulsa on tours. During that time there were more concerts at the Lloyd Noble Center than the Myriad. One album tour at the Myriad/LNC and the next at the Tulsa Convention Center. 

In a scheduling interest, ESPN has an interesting 30 for 30 about the couple that does the MLB scheduling. That is 162 regular season games between 30 teams.
ESPN 30 for 30: The Schedule Makers

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## jdg78

Is the beginning of changes.

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## HangryHippo

> Is the beginning of changes.


What?

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## jdg78

I’m not a fan at all.  However, it looks like okc got a show Tulsa isn’t that is hitting every national big city arena.  LA, NY, Boston , Philadelphia, Chicago, and etc.

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## midtownokcer

> Is the beginning of changes.


Fan or not, this is a pretty big get even though she's played here before. Last month, I took my friend visiting from the UK to the Thunder Shop at the arena, and the guy working chatted him up about how this "new guy" was going to bring artists that are more relevant to younger people. He also mentioned that the players often complain that the 'Peake doesn't get shows that they want to attend. I had a bit of a laugh when he said that "Fall Out Boy and Rod Stewart isn't going to cut it."

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## shadfar

> Fan or not, this is a pretty big get even though she's played here before. Last month, I took my friend visiting from the UK to the Thunder Shop at the arena, and the guy working chatted him up about how this "new guy" was going to bring artists that are more relevant to younger people. He also mentioned that the players often complain that the 'Peake doesn't get shows that they want to attend. I had a bit of a laugh when he said that "Fall Out Boy and Rod Stewart isn't going to cut it."


I hope there's some truth to this, as much as i like Tulsa..it's getting harder and harder for me to drive up to Tulsa for a concert on a Sunday night or middle of the week. getting old and not willing to travel for the music as much...

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## kukblue1

Did she play Tulsa last year or was that a few years ago?

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## BG918

> Did she play Tulsa last year or was that a few years ago?


She played the BOK in Feb 2017

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## OkieHornet

KISS farewell tour stop at Chesapeake Arena on Feb. 26, 2019. I'm sure Tulsa will get a date on another leg at some point, but OKC gets on the first leg.

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## Swake

> KISS farewell tour stop at Chesapeake Arena on Feb. 26, 2019. I'm sure Tulsa will get a date on another leg at some point, but OKC gets on the first leg.


I went to a KISS farewell tour stop at the Myriad over 20 years ago.

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## jedicurt

> I went to a KISS farewell tour stop at the Myriad over 20 years ago.


Hey, i was there too!  i saw Kiss on Farewell tour 1, 2, and 4... not even sure what one they are on now

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## jdg78



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## jdg78

Hmmmmmm🤔

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## Pete

Backstreet Boys just announced for August 22nd.

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## kukblue1

> Backstreet Boys just announced for August 22nd.


Hopefully Janet Jackson but not seeing it yet.   :Frown:   She was in Tulsa and few years ago didn't sale well so she might skip Oklahoma this time around.

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## Pete

Press release:

We are excited to announce that Foo Fighters will be bringing their 25th Anniversary The Van Tour 2020 to our Chesapeake Energy Arena on Thursday, April 16. Tickets go on sale this Friday, February 21 at 10 am.

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## catch22

Cool! Grohl always puts on a good performance.

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## BDP

> Cool! Grohl always puts on a good performance.


And he'll be able to move around the stage this time around!

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## Pete

Tool will be coming to Chesapeake Energy Arena on June 17.

Tickets on sale this Friday at 10 am.

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## Richard at Remax

Really excited about Tool. I had a chance to check them out in Tulsa back in Oct. Great show and looking forward to seeing them here again.

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## jdg78

SMG and the city deserve a lot of credit for the effort they are putting forth to get shows.   I just hope they maintain there effort for years to come.  The Peake was really doing great from 2002-2014.... The Peake should be the premier destination for concerts in Oklahoma.   I am excited about all the Maps 4 improvements that will enhance the concert experience.

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## Pete

SMG brought in a new General Manager, who I just recently met.

He and his team are the reason for this surge and they are planning much more.

----------

