# Civic Matters > Ask Anything About OKC >  White Water Bay

## traxx

Wasn't sure where to post this, so if it needs to be moved to a better location, please do so.

With OKC growing and more businesses and entertainment opportunities coming to town, it would stand to reason that OKC should get a better water park. White Water has  no competition and thus has no reason to be at the top of its game. I've taken the kids there the past couple of summers but i refuse to go back because it's just dirty and disgusting. The Lazy River is a petrie dish of germs with band-aids and other such crap floating by. It's as if WW doesn't even care. And I guess they wouldn't because what other water park are you going to go to in OKC? This was an okay place 30 years ago but it's turned to crap. Also, it's landlocked. It has no where to grow unless they build slides on their parking lot.

I know that Edmond has a water park and there's other municipal water parks around the metro, not to mention places like Andy Aligators and Hey Day, but there's not a good place for older kids who get bored with those smaller places. Older kids want more of a thrill. 

What would be great is a joint venture of a nice water park right next to an entertainment park with big go-cart tracks and large, well layed out mini golf courses.

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## BBatesokc

White Water today reminds me of the dilapidated state Frontier City was in at one time before they cleaned the place up. You'd think they'd have put the same emphasis on both parks.

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## GoOKC1991

Honestly, if I am in the mood for a water park, I will make a few days out of it and go to KC or New Braunfels for Schlitterbahn.

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## bchris02

> White Water today reminds me of the dilapidated state Frontier City was in at one time before they cleaned the place up. You'd think they'd have put the same emphasis on both parks.


Frontier City is still pretty bad even today.  I can't justify the price of a ticket to go there, especially after living in Charlotte and having Carowinds, which is better than even Six Flags Over Texas.  One would think OKC is large enough and in a good enough location to support a real amusement park and a real water park.  It's also not like competition of lack of it has anything to do with it.  Many cities, especially smaller markets only have a single amusement park and a single water park but they are much, much better than Frontier City or White Water Bay.

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## shavethewhales

I thought White Water was doing better under Premier Parks. They've been highly lauded for their work on other water parks, including the one in Nashville which they've built up a ton. They have the management contract for both White Water and Frontier City, and will probably buy them out completely by the end of this year since CNL is selling all of its parks. Frontier City has come a long, long way in the past few years even if some people can't appreciate it. It may never be a giant destination park, but they have certainly cleaned it up and are doing some interesting things with it.

White Water actually still has a good bit of expansion potential. Water parks don't need to cover a huge land area, and they have a lot of unused land to the west and north of the current space. They could shift the parking farther north and increase the park space by a half at least. Once Premier gets unfettered control of it I'd expect some major expansion to begin.

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## bchris02

> I thought White Water was doing better under Premier Parks. They've been highly lauded for their work on other water parks, including the one in Nashville which they've built up a ton. They have the management contract for both White Water and Frontier City, and will probably buy them out completely by the end of this year since CNL is selling all of its parks. Frontier City has come a long, long way in the past few years even if some people can't appreciate it. It may never be a giant destination park, but they have certainly cleaned it up and are doing some interesting things with it.
> 
> White Water actually still has a good bit of expansion potential. Water parks don't need to cover a huge land area, and they have a lot of unused land to the west and north of the current space. They could shift the parking farther north and increase the park space by a half at least. Once Premier gets unfettered control of it I'd expect some major expansion to begin.


This would be good to see.  Hopefully it happens.  I don't see why they would just let the parks rot.

I haven't been to Frontier City since 2012 so maybe I should give it another visit.  I just have trouble paying what it costs to go there when I could go to Six Flags Over Texas.  Last time I was at Frontier City, several of the rides were broken down and several that I remember as a child were no longer there. Frontier City needs just a couple of larger roller coasters.  That would make it a destination and put it on the level with Worlds of Fun in Kansas City. On that note both parks do have competition south of the Red River.  Most Oklahomans have no issue with a day trip to DFW for a water park or an amusement park.

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## HangryHippo

> I thought White Water was doing better under Premier Parks. They've been highly lauded for their work on other water parks, including the one in Nashville which they've built up a ton. They have the management contract for both White Water and Frontier City, and will probably buy them out completely by the end of this year since CNL is selling all of its parks. Frontier City has come a long, long way in the past few years even if some people can't appreciate it. It may never be a giant destination park, but they have certainly cleaned it up and are doing some interesting things with it.
> 
> White Water actually still has a good bit of expansion potential. Water parks don't need to cover a huge land area, and they have a lot of unused land to the west and north of the current space. They could shift the parking farther north and increase the park space by a half at least. Once Premier gets unfettered control of it I'd expect some major expansion to begin.


I think with all that's built up around it, it's a mistake to continue to expand White Water at the current location.  It ought to be moved up by Frontier City where you can capitalize on having both of the parks near each other, or somewhere less industrialized, like Moore with the other two parks that are down there now.  But to continue to invest money while more and more warehouses pop up around it seems foolish.

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## traxx

> Once Premier gets unfettered control of it I'd expect some major expansion to begin.


Hopefully not just expansion, but a better run park. Like I said, I was grossed out last summer and won't be taking my kids back this summer.

And I know that the going down to Texas is just a quick jaunt down I-35, but to do that, I'd have to get a hotel room. That would take at least one full day. Where if we had a good water park and amusement park here, I can take the kids and just go for a few hours and then go back home.

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## bchris02

I agree if they are serious about upgrading White Water Bay they should move it up near Frontier City.  Pretty much every other city I am familiar with has their theme park and water park in close proximity if not right next to each other.

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## traxx

> I think with all that's built up around it, it's a mistake to continue to expand White Water at the current location.  It ought to be moved up by Frontier City where you can capitalize on having both of the parks near each other, or somewhere less industrialized, like Moore with the other two parks that are down there now.  But to continue to invest money while more and more warehouses pop up around it seems foolish.


Every time I drive by, I think about how the new warehouse on the east side is going to affect the aesthetics for the park patrons. There's going to be a huge concrete wall right next to the rides on the east side of the park this summer.

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## traxx

> I agree if they are serious about upgrading White Water Bay they should move it up near Frontier City.  Pretty much every other city I am familiar with has their theme park and water park in close proximity if not right next to each other.


They should buy the land just to the west of FC. Then they should have enough room for a really good water park and to expand FC with a couple of really good rides. I would even encourage them to keep as many of those trees as possible for atmoshpere and aesthetics. Clear cutting the area just to build a park and then planting new trees doesn't really seem to make sense. A lazy river through the trees would add visual interests.

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## soondoc

> They should buy the land just to the west of FC. Then they should have enough room for a really good water park and to expand FC with a couple of really good rides. I would even encourage them to keep as many of those trees as possible for atmoshpere and aesthetics. Clear cutting the area just to build a park and then planting new trees doesn't really seem to make sense. A lazy river through the trees would add visual interests.


That is actually a very good idea.  I wish OKC would expand FC and add a big time water park and make this place something of a destination for people to come to.  It already has a great base to work with, and it could become more of a Six Flags/Silver Dollar City type place.  The location is ideal and in the near future, perhaps we will have rail from Edmond to Norman it could run right by for public transportation.  Is this something that would be feasible or pipe dream?  Perhaps someone could start a FC thread to discuss.

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## adaniel

> They should buy the land just to the west of FC. Then they should have enough room for a really good water park and to expand FC with a couple of really good rides. I would even encourage them to keep as many of those trees as possible for atmoshpere and aesthetics. Clear cutting the area just to build a park and then planting new trees doesn't really seem to make sense. A lazy river through the trees would add visual interests.


Frontier City already has a waterpark. A very nice one, in fact.

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## shavethewhales

You guys are thinking about this in far too simplistic terms. The reason WWB is out in an industrial district has to do with the group that started it, which was separate entity from the company that owned Frontier City at the time. To "move" the park out to Frontier City would be a $50-$100 million investment easily, and for what gain? It would be somewhat more convenient for some guests maybe, but there's definitely not enough need there to warrant it right now. It would be one thing if they were trying to set up a destination resort attraction out of FC, but as small regional entities it just wouldn't pay off. None of the patrons care about the view outside of the park. 

Frontier City already owns a huge parcel of land to the west. If you look at it on google maps you'll notice the park's massive "boneyard", which back in the Six Flags days was used to store a lot of stuff for the chain. The issue with this huge piece of land is that it is not zoned for FC's use, and the neighbors have warned that they will make a massive boondoggle out of any attempt to expand the park there. They have played with the idea in the past, if I recall, and were rebuffed. I don't know what the park has planned for the future, but they seem to have purchased about half of the old RV park to the north and have been using it for parking. I'm thinking they'll ultimately expand to the north east and shift parking over to the west lot area, but that's just speculation. 

I follow the attractions industry pretty closely and would be ecstatic to see any major developments in OKC, or anywhere within a 4-hour radius, but I know to keep my expectations limited because this is a fairly high-risk investment industry with a lot of roadblocks to new development.

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## traxx

> Frontier City already has a waterpark. A very nice one, in fact.


Not on the same scale.

It has no major slides, no lazy river, no wave pool, no activity pool, no multi-person tube rides etc.

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## traxx

> None of the patrons care about the view outside of the park.


I do. And I doubt that I'm the only one. Not only is that warehouse right next door going to be ugly to look at, but can you imagine the heat radiating off of that concrete wall on a hot Oklahoma summer afternoon?

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## Easy180

The indoor water park in Clinton ain't bad. Has 3 bigger slides and one medium. Not a bad place for older kids.

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## turnpup

When my daughter was about 3, she started asking about going to WWB.  Wanting to postpone going to that place for as long as possible, I told her that they had a minimum age of 10 to get into the park.  She bought it!  That is, until one of her cousins (6 or 7 years old) told her that she'd been going there ever since she was a toddler.  BUSTED!!!  My reply:  "Oh, I guess I was mistaken."  I'm so bad.

Perhaps we'll go down to Schlitterbahn one of these days.

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## zookeeper

I hate to throw water on the hopes (pardon the pun) for a Whitewater turnaround, but Tierco/Premier Parks was a great company in the 80's and 90's and they really turned Frontier City around. Two of the three main guys who_ were_ the original Premier Parks are no longer part of the picture. One is President & CEO now at Valliance Bank and is not a part of the new Premier and Gary Story (the 'amusement brains' behind the company) died a little over a year ago. Kieran Burke and Gary Story started the "new" Premier Parks in 2011, but with Gary's passing, it lost its shining star. He was an amusement master.

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## Plutonic Panda

> When my daughter was about 3, she started asking about going to WWB.  Wanting to postpone going to that place for as long as possible, I told her that they had a minimum age of 10 to get into the park.  She bought it!  That is, until one of her cousins (6 or 7 years old) told her that she'd been going there ever since she was a toddler.  BUSTED!!!  My reply:  "Oh, I guess I was mistaken."  I'm so bad.
> 
> Perhaps we'll go down to Schlitterbahn one of these days.


when are you going? I need to know the best time to be there! I kid I kid...

But seriously, have you been to Hurricane Harbor in Dallas? It is a pretty cool water park, although not as great as Schlitterbahn, it has slides and features great for kids and teens. Also a very clean park. About 7 years ago or so(I was like 14), I used to love to go there and my dad worked right by it. 

But if you want a resort type, big time water park, I'd go with Schlitterbahn.

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## gamecock

> I thought White Water was doing better under Premier Parks. They've been highly lauded for their work on other water parks, including the one in Nashville which they've built up a ton. They have the management contract for both White Water and Frontier City, and will probably buy them out completely by the end of this year since CNL is selling all of its parks. Frontier City has come a long, long way in the past few years even if some people can't appreciate it. It may never be a giant destination park, but they have certainly cleaned it up and are doing some interesting things with it.
> 
> White Water actually still has a good bit of expansion potential. Water parks don't need to cover a huge land area, and they have a lot of unused land to the west and north of the current space. They could shift the parking farther north and increase the park space by a half at least. Once Premier gets unfettered control of it I'd expect some major expansion to begin.


I think WWB is a very good value for the money. You can get a season pass for BOTH parks for only $70. That's hard to beat. And, personally, I actually think both parks look a little bit better in recent years. And WWB added a new attraction, with two different slides that accommodate multiple riders, a few years ago. My kids always ask to go there, and it's nice to have an affordable option. Water parks, in my experience, are always a little bit gross, and I didn't think that WWB was any worse than other places I have been. That said, I would definitely be willing to pay more to have a larger park with better rides. But I actually see more of a need at Frontier City (which doesn't really have any major attractions) than at WWB.

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## Kemotblue

I'm a fan of both parks and very impressed what Premier Attractions has done with the parks. CNL has done a good job using this management company.   I have been a season pass holder since 2010. In that time I have seen a tremendous amount of love the management has put into their parks.  I frequent Frontier City more the changes they made especially the past few seasons.  They have refurbished rides even reopened one of their classics that has just sat for many years. They have removed rides they could not fix and added a ride last year  and by their facebook page look to add a new ride this year.   They have changed and freshened up areas of the park with new signage and graphics and put some love into their buildings.   I have noticed the past two seasons more patrons have been visiting the park.  They do a Awesome job with their staff I haven't had any trouble just a few times where just like anybody that has had a bad day in the Oklahoma Heat but very few incidents.  The staff are most of the time upbeat and very friendly.  I was actually floored this past season for the first time and I visit allot of theme-parks have never had a associate stop me while I was walking introduce themselves ask me and my friend how we were doing and how our day was going etc.  small friendly conversation.   I don't know if they recognize me just because of my frequent visits.  But it made a impression.  The management by far has done a tremendous job with the property. I actually use the trails around the park for exercise plenty of shade cool zones to cool off and the park is perfect for a workout and to have fun.  Here is a idea if you have kids and you don't care to ride the rides.  Walk the park and let the kids have fun the grounds are very nice to look at and you actually get a glimpse of wildlife.  I seen many different type of birds and even small mammals.  LOL (Not just squirrels and a occasional stray cat)  Hats off to what they have done to the parks.  White Water bay added those two new slides just last year and they have room to add something to the West they have a old miniature Golf course and picnic area that is not being used on that Westside.  So they have plenty of room for expansion.  I'm glad OKC has these park there is a number of cities across this country who wish they had these attractions in their backyard.  I am not going to complain and look forward to many more years visiting Frontier City and White Water Bay.

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## Jeepnokc

> I hate to throw water on the hopes (pardon the pun) for a Whitewater turnaround, but Tierco/Premier Parks was a great company in the 80's and 90's and they really turned Frontier City around. Two of the three main guys who_ were_ the original Premier Parks are no longer part of the picture. One is President & CEO now at Valliance Bank and is not a part of the new Premier and Gary Story (the 'amusement brains' behind the company) died a little over a year ago. Kieran Burke and Gary Story started the "new" Premier Parks in 2011, but with Gary's passing, it lost its shining star. He was an amusement master.


I worked for Gary back in mid 80's for a couple of summers when they took over the parks.  Definitely a master of his craft.

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## turnpup

> when are you going? I need to know the best time to be there! I kid I kid...
> 
> But seriously, have you been to Hurricane Harbor in Dallas? It is a pretty cool water park, although not as great as Schlitterbahn, it has slides and features great for kids and teens. Also a very clean park. About 7 years ago or so(I was like 14), I used to love to go there and my dad worked right by it. 
> 
> But if you want a resort type, big time water park, I'd go with Schlitterbahn.


Hurricane Harbor sounds  like a good middle of the road option.  Plus, I really need to take a trip to Dallas.

Back when I was in college (late 80's to early 90's), I got a really cool summer job working for a marketing firm that had the PepsiCo account.  They paid us $10 per hour (which was a fortune back then, plus we always worked at least 10 hours of overtime each week) to go to a bunch of places and set up a Pepsi/Coke taste test.  It was a modern remake of the Pepsi Challenge from the 70s.  Many, if not most, of our venues were the various Whitewater parks across the DFW metro.  I'm trying to think if Hurricane Harbor used to be a Whitewater or not.  If so, it got completely gutted and rebuilt.  But I can't remember for sure.  That was a long, hot summer, but we made so much $$$.  When you're in college, that's a real blessing.

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## traxx

> I hate to throw water on the hopes (pardon the pun) for a Whitewater turnaround, but Tierco/Premier Parks was a great company in the 80's and 90's and they really turned Frontier City around. Two of the three main guys who_ were_ the original Premier Parks are no longer part of the picture. One is President & CEO now at Valliance Bank and is not a part of the new Premier and Gary Story (the 'amusement brains' behind the company) died a little over a year ago. Kieran Burke and Gary Story started the "new" Premier Parks in 2011, but with Gary's passing, it lost its shining star. He was an amusement master.


I hate to hear that. If WW were just run better and kept clean, that'd do a lot to improve the park.

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## bchris02

> I'm glad OKC has these park there is a number of cities across this country who wish they had these attractions in their backyard.  I am not going to complain and look forward to many more years visiting Frontier City and White Water Bay.


I understand what you are saying but in many other cities, these smaller parks have had to either up their game or close down.  "Better than crappy makes us happy" isn't good enough.  Frontier City needs a few destination thrill rides.  The park is already aesthetically attractive and has great bones.  The new rides don't have to be anything too extravagant but it does need to be upgraded so a park visit is worth the cost of a ticket and/or season pass.  With a couple of new coasters, it could be at least as good as Worlds of Fun in Kansas City.

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## Plutonic Panda

> Hurricane Harbor sounds  like a good middle of the road option.  Plus, I really need to take a trip to Dallas.
> 
> Back when I was in college (late 80's to early 90's), I got a really cool summer job working for a marketing firm that had the PepsiCo account.  They paid us $10 per hour (which was a fortune back then, plus we always worked at least 10 hours of overtime each week) to go to a bunch of places and set up a Pepsi/Coke taste test.  It was a modern remake of the Pepsi Challenge from the 70s.  Many, if not most, of our venues were the various Whitewater parks across the DFW metro.  I'm trying to think if Hurricane Harbor used to be a Whitewater or not.  If so, it got completely gutted and rebuilt.  But I can't remember for sure.  That was a long, hot summer, but we made so much $$$.  When you're in college, that's a real blessing.


Nice! Bet that was a really fun summer.

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## OKCretro

a thread about a public toilet.  

haven't been since middle school and don't plan on going back

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## turnpup

> Nice! Bet that was a really fun summer.


Fun, but hard work.  We stood outside in the hot Texas sun for 10 hours a day.  It was hard to be stationed at a Whitewater and not be able to get wet.  I was always thrilled when they'd give us our weekly assignment and one of the days was a mall.  Air conditioning!  

Back then, all the Whitewaters were identical.  Even the one in Oklahoma was just like the ones in Texas.  They were pretty small, and the major attraction was the wave pool.  I don't remember when things changed, but it wasn't too long after that.  Change in ownership, perhaps?

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## jn1780

When was the last time a new theme park was built in the U.S? Theme parks are expensive and the return on investment is terrible.  You need a lot of tourist from surrounding states to support a large theme park and there are not many investors who are willing to fork that much cash to even try to build something competitive when Six Flags has three parks down south.

Frontier City's small incremental approach at improving the park may be boring, but its working in keeping them in the black.  They probably have long term plans for a new coaster, but the best they can do for now is buying these new smaller rides.

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## shavethewhales

^Just FYI, Hard Rock Theme Park was built out in Myrtle Beach in 2008, but closed down after two seasons mostly due to lousy planning. A new park near Houston called Grand Texas is slowly getting off the ground and land is being cleared currently for it, but as typical it is being delayed. There are small properties that pick up here and there, but nothing like we're talking about here. The water park industry is exploding though, thanks to smaller, local (sometimes indoor) properties. 

It is indeed much more difficult to get an appropriate ROI in this industry than almost everyone thinks. Every says, "oh, Frontier City just needs a world class thrill ride to round it off", not realizing that would be a $10-$20 million investment that could sink the park if it doesn't turn out well. Incremental build up is the model of choice for a reason. Frontier City is about to add a decent thrill ride for 2015 though (to be announced very soon), and I expect it will give them a bump and the confidence in the market they need to do something even greater for either 2016 or 2017. I don't see them going all out and building anything truly world class, but there is are things like this: Untamed - Canobie Lake Park (Salem, New Hampshire, USA) that could be really fun for not a ridiculous amount of money. 

White Water is in the same boat, but with smaller quantities of money. Water park projects are cheaper, but the revenue is also smaller and more variable. They did get some great new slides LAST YEAR that no one seems to recognize though. Funny how people who haven't been to the park in ages always assume nothing ever changes. With FC getting a new ride this year, I'd look for another new project at White Water next year, but it depends on how the sale goes.

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## Kemotblue

Frontier City just posted this on their Facebook page this afternoon.  According to reply in their comments it is being placed in between the Mindbender and Praire Schooner.  That is a awesome location for this type of ride.  Glad they are adding something this year to their park.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQqbUzzfKhI

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## BBatesokc

Do they do their marketing in house? I hope they didn't pay a 3rd party for that promo video --- considering it was done with Apple's free iMovie and one of their most recognizable free templates/themes....

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## Zorba

> ^Just FYI, Hard Rock Theme Park was built out in Myrtle Beach in 2008, but closed down after two seasons mostly due to lousy planning. A new park near Houston called Grand Texas is slowly getting off the ground and land is being cleared currently for it, but as typical it is being delayed. There are small properties that pick up here and there, but nothing like we're talking about here. The water park industry is exploding though, thanks to smaller, local (sometimes indoor) properties. 
> 
> It is indeed much more difficult to get an appropriate ROI in this industry than almost everyone thinks. Every says, "oh, Frontier City just needs a world class thrill ride to round it off", not realizing that would be a $10-$20 million investment that could sink the park if it doesn't turn out well. Incremental build up is the model of choice for a reason. Frontier City is about to add a decent thrill ride for 2015 though (to be announced very soon), and I expect it will give them a bump and the confidence in the market they need to do something even greater for either 2016 or 2017. I don't see them going all out and building anything truly world class, but there is are things like this: Untamed - Canobie Lake Park (Salem, New Hampshire, USA) that could be really fun for not a ridiculous amount of money. 
> 
> White Water is in the same boat, but with smaller quantities of money. Water park projects are cheaper, but the revenue is also smaller and more variable. They did get some great new slides LAST YEAR that no one seems to recognize though. Funny how people who haven't been to the park in ages always assume nothing ever changes. With FC getting a new ride this year, I'd look for another new project at White Water next year, but it depends on how the sale goes.


Great post.

I think in the day building a amusement park from scratch would be very hard. Customers expect a lot, there is a lot of competition for customers entertainment money/time, and rides have gotten more expensive. Hard Rock tried, but the huge debt load along with the poor management doomed them. I think the debt load lead to a lot of poor management decisions. 

I think a small Gravity Group coaster would be a great addition for FC, and I'd think it would be obtainable. Something like the Ravine Flyer II. More of a pipe dream would be a B&M inverted like The Raptor. I am sure either would suck up all of FC capital improvement budget for close to a decade though.

Growing up in Tulsa I went to Bell's about once a week, when I lived in Cincinnati I went to Kings Island twice a week every week of the season, except the weekends I went to a different park like Cedar Point. Last year I got season passed to FC and only went once. The Wildcat is fun, the Silverbullet is okay. I also believe that a park can be good with a couple coasters and good flat rides, but FC falls short there too. The bumper cars are pretty good, but the Ferris wheel is horribly ran and was squealing to the point of being unenjoyable. The antique cars are a joke. I think a Frisbee, or maybe a couple of classic carny rides would go along way, if they didn't have the capital for a new coaster.

As for White Water. I think it is a pretty good water park, but it is just too busy. I haven't been to Hurricane Harbor or Schlitterbahn, but been to 6 or 7 other full size water parks and I think WW is the most complete/well rounded of the bunch. Unfortunately WW is so busy during times I want to go, it isn't worth going. I think the city could support another park about the size of WW up around Edmond. 

I think a lot of the cleanliness problems people have with WW are a symptom of it being overly crowded.

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## bombermwc

With as many people as flow through there, one would think that they should be financially doing great. But when you walk around, the place is basically the same as it was when I was a kid. The place has barely changed in 20+ years, and that's not a good thing. Some of the rides don't even run very often because of staffing issues. The old "rapids" ride that you could float down next to the old "Blackhole" ride that isn't called the Blackhole anymore.

There isn't much signage about kids not riding with you so when you get to the top of the Bermuda Triangle, you can get pretty pissed. And some of the lifeguards are just a-holes. There are plenty that are very nice and awesome/helpful. But those sour apples really make it stressful. 

The place really could stand to get an overhaul on its image. Change the rusted lockers out and the flow at the front door altogether.

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## traxx

Right on so many counts, bomber. My kids love the Bermuda Triangle and I can't count the number of times I've heard people at the top get chewed out by the workers for not having the right tube or told they couldn't ride together or not being tall enough. All those are things that should be really clear before you get in line for a ride. But since WW is so horrible at communicating with it's customers it leads to situations like this all around the park.  They expect non -regulars to know all the rules and policies but how can they know unless it's communicated.

When we went last summer, the rapids were closed down and drained.

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## Jesseda

I do wish frontier city would expand and add a bigger water park they do own the property across the street on Coltrane and they had or still have the camp ground lot just north of their parking lot.

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## CaptDave

The entire area would be vastly improved if the old fleabag motels were demo'd and FC expanded that direction. Shift the main parking to that area and fill in the current parking lot with new attractions. Or something.......

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## baralheia

As has been mentioned, White Water Bay is completely landlocked; though there are many opportunities for reconfiguring their layout for expansion within their existing boundaries, they own zero property surrounding WWB to expand outwards.



CNL actually already owns a good chunk of vacant property surrounding Frontier City... Enough to more than double the size of the park. Some of these plots have been part of the FC property portfolio since the early 90's.



If they really wanted to move WWB out there, they could easily expand the parking lot slightly to the north, and fill the rest of the northern parcels with the water park. There would still be room to expand within those borders, too. This would landlock WWB again - and prevent further water park expansion without either moving the parking lot or purchasing additional parcels to the north - but it would preserve the property to the west of Coltrane for further FC expansion.

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## Plutonic Panda

They could easily build a 10 story parking garage and have land available to development on.

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## CaptDave

I think moving WWB out to that area makes a lot of sense - I cannot imagine how much that would cost though. I doubt that cost would be offset much by the sale of their current property along I40.

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## ljbab728

> I think moving WWB out to that area makes a lot of sense - I cannot imagine how much that would cost though. I doubt that cost would be offset much by the sale of their current property along I40.


I disagree.  Whitewater Bay is more easily accessible to the entire metro where it is than on North I35.  The only advantage to doing that would be if someone wants to visit both parks on the same day.

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## rte66man

> When was the last time a new theme park was built in the U.S? Theme parks are expensive and the return on investment is terrible.  You need a lot of tourist from surrounding states to support a large theme park and there are not many investors who are willing to fork that much cash to even try to build something competitive when Six Flags has three parks down south.


Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.  I know it's a "waterpark" but looks like fun.
Schlitterbahn Kansas City Waterpark | Kansas City Water Park

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## Kemotblue

Driving home from the Thunder game last night on I-40 heading back to Yukon and noticed construction cranes in the middle of the park.  I bet White Water Bay is adding another slide or something else to their park.

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## bombermwc

Well hopefully they're doing something. I went last summer with my kids and most of it was exactly the same as it was when I was a kid. Even the paint job looks like they just are in a "maintain" role instead of trying to improve anything.

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## traxx

> Well hopefully they're doing something. I went last summer with my kids and most of it was exactly the same as it was when I was a kid. Even the paint job looks like they just are in a "maintain" role instead of trying to improve anything.


This +100

New slides are a good step, but it'd also be nice if they'd invest some money in cleaning.

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## shavethewhales

As with Frontier City, a lot of work has been put into WWB, but not all of it is noticeable. They done a lot of roofs, infrastructure, ect. that the old owners neglected. It's really just the last couple of years that they've been able to get started on additions and replacements. I know WWB got a new set of slides pretty recently, like either last year or the year before.

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## TU 'cane

Tulsa's had these issues as well. Obviously with Bells being long gone, Big Splash Water Park was taken over under new ownership and they're making BIG changes to the entire park. Expected that at least $5 million will be put into the new park with renovations, remodels, etc. 

I think this is great, Big Splash needed a spark and I'm hopeful this will do that:

Down with Silver Bullet at Big Splash, up with Reptile Rush at Safari Joe's H2O - Tulsa World: Local

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## traxx

> As with Frontier City, a lot of work has been put into WWB, but not all of it is noticeable. They done a lot of roofs, infrastructure, ect. that the old owners neglected. It's really just the last couple of years that they've been able to get started on additions and replacements. I know WWB got a new set of slides pretty recently, like either last year or the year before.


Well that's all fine and good but it'd sure be nice if they would put work into stuff that is noticeable such as band aids floating in the water, trash on the ground and other basic upkeep and cleanliness.

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## Zorba

> Tulsa's had these issues as well. Obviously with Bells being long gone, Big Splash Water Park was taken over under new ownership and they're making BIG changes to the entire park. Expected that at least $5 million will be put into the new park with renovations, remodels, etc. 
> 
> I think this is great, Big Splash needed a spark and I'm hopeful this will do that:
> 
> Down with Silver Bullet at Big Splash, up with Reptile Rush at Safari Joe's H2O - Tulsa World: Local


I was thinking about it today. I am pretty sure the last major improvement done at Big Splash was the Master Blaster - 21 years ago... Before that, I don't think anything else in the park had changed in my life time, except small changes in the activity and kiddie pools. I guess they painted the slides a few years back. 

It is really sad that the Murphy Brothers were able to drive Bell's off the fairgrounds, while doing absolutely no investment into their own property.

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