# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Midwest City/Del City >  MAPS for MWC

## goodfriday

I feel we need to think outside the box to improve our city. I would support having a MAPS tax for community. Would not the benefits out way a few more pennies out of our pockets ? I would love this to be a forum for grand ideas if this would come to pass.

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## Plutonic Panda

Ya whats the deal with maps not taking place in the metro. After all it stands for metropolitan area projects and it takes place in Downtown.

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## Snowman

The name was picked after the project list, calling it DAPS or DPS does not have quite the same ring to it.

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## BoulderSooner

> Ya whats the deal with maps not taking place in the metro. After all it stands for metropolitan area projects and it takes place in Downtown.


it doesn't all take place downtown .. for 1 .... and for 2   it is an Oklahoma city tax   of course it is not in midwest city

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## Dubya61

Right.  MAPS is an OKC tax, not a MWC or Del City Tax.  But it only makes sense that MWC / Del City (or any other non-OKC entity) could do the same.  MWC / Del City:  what would you do (on a smaller scale, obviously) with a local investment tax?  Build a transportation hub where Heritage Park Mall is?  Attact a MLS team with a stadium?  Do something to gussy up Eagle Lake?  Find a way to extend the Oklahoma River to where it touches Del City and make a recreation area out of that and Eagle Lake?  Make Rose State / Oscar Rose (whatever it's called now) a better campus?  Realize some potential in that weird plot of land that some oddly-named hospital trust owns on 29th?  Build a wind farm?  Build a Hadron Collider? -- OK, that was off the deep end, but really.  What could MWC / Del City be?  Let's make it happen!

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## Just the facts

Four things I would like to see MWC do.

1)  Redevelope Heritage Park Mall into a real town downtown.
2)  Redevelope Air Depot from HPM to Tinker AFB - to include minimum setbacks, on street parking, bike lanes, and landscaped median
3)  Build a local transit hub where Air Depot crosses the railroad for intergration into the regional rail network
4)  Introduce streetcars from the redeveloped HPM site to Tinker AFB along Air Depot (assuming regional rail doesn't go directly to Tinker), in which case it should go from the HPM site to the new local transit hub.

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## mmonroe

I've thought about this for a long time, but i feel the city is too proud of our current sales tax percentage, ie. Get Caught Shopping MWC, the street signs that say "Your tax dollars help improve Midwest City".


@JTF, I think you're thinking a little small.

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## Dubya61

> I've thought about this for a long time, but i feel the city is too proud of our current sales tax percentage, ie. Get Caught Shopping MWC, the street signs that say "Your tax dollars help improve Midwest City".


not trying to argue -- just want to make sure I understand your comment.  Does MWC want to keep their sales tax low? or like keeping a high sales tax?

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## Plutonic Panda

> Build a Hadron Collider?


 Now this would be awesome!

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## CuatrodeMayo

> Do something to gussy up Eagle Lake?  Find a way to extend the Oklahoma River to where it touches Del City and make a recreation area out of that and Eagle Lake?


I did a sketch of something like that a few years ago. I'll have to see if I can find it.

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## bombermwc

> Four things I would like to see MWC do.
> 
> 1)  Redevelope Heritage Park Mall into a real town downtown.
> 2)  Redevelope Air Depot from HPM to Tinker AFB - to include minimum setbacks, on street parking, bike lanes, and landscaped median
> 3)  Build a local transit hub where Air Depot crosses the railroad for intergration into the regional rail network
> 4)  Introduce streetcars from the redeveloped HPM site to Tinker AFB along Air Depot (assuming regional rail doesn't go directly to Tinker), in which case it should go from the HPM site to the new local transit hub.


Air Depot is pretty danged ugly, but i think the city has exhausted the right-of-way already...at least what's feasible. When they added the center turn lane, it pretty much took over what was there. I would love to see some changes, but we do need to be realistic about it. Adding some sort of landscaping effort would help (it's not going to be a median...again there's not enough right of way to do that), but again, given the small right of way, i'm not sure there's room without blocking views for cars. As far as parking...on air depot...um no way. With that amount of traffic, there's absolutely no reason to do that. You're just asking for wrecks. And a median just ends up causing more people to U-turn. If you're willing to give up the center turn lane, then you can do that (and landscape and whatever). But something has to go to make room for it, and there's nothing left outside of the current footprint.

I'd like to see the sidewalk project completed on BOTH sides fo the roads as well as start an effort in neighborhoods. 

And I'd just assume the bulldoze HPM between Sears and Dillards and have a grass field rather than an empty building. It's not exactlly a retail hub area...never has been. So i'm not sure you'll find much support to throw ay money at it.

I know it sounds like i'm trying to argue, but it's just discussion. The points you make are exactlly the type of discussion that start this sort of thing. So it's great to have them out there.

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## CuatrodeMayo

Here it is:

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## Plutonic Panda

I wish this would happen. What are the chances???

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## Snowman

> I wish this would happen. What are the chances???


I doubt they would fill over the riverbanks, though I had heard a couple comments from people involved in the chamber of commerce having interest in doing one past i35. 

If the water sports referenced for the bridge were the same ones we have now, the only compelling reason I can think of planing races in this section is if it were a longer span than the boathouse's basin; say at least 6000 or 8000 meters for the course.

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## Plutonic Panda

> I doubt they would fill over the riverbanks, though I had heard a couple comments from people involved in the chamber of commerce having interest in doing one past i35. 
> 
> If the water sports referenced for the bridge were the same ones we have now, the only compelling reason I can think of planing races in this section is if it were a longer span than the boathouse's basin; say at least 6000 or 8000 meters for the course.


Well if it were to happen, what would you think about something like the Great Wolf Lodge in Grapevine, Texas being built here. It could even have the indoor water park and have a slide that would be open during the summer that would go into the Oklahoma River. I mean this would just be freakin awesome man!!!!

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## Snowman

> Well if it were to happen, what would you think about something like the Great Wolf Lodge in Grapevine, Texas being built here. It could even have the indoor water park and have a slide that would be open during the summer that would go into the Oklahoma River. I mean this would just be freakin awesome man!!!!


The park would be awesome but until we improve in the quality of the water a slide into it is unlikely.

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## Dubya61

I sure like it, but that looks like it's all a Del City issue.  Don't know how you could talk MWC into taxing themselves for that.

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## Eagles_07

Del City wouldn't foot the bill for something as dumb as this, plus that part of the river has no water in it anyway so I don't see any of this ever happening any time soon. While it would be nice for Del City and Midwest City to have some river front shopping/restaurants and housing but it wont happen.

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## bombermwc

Well if you put in a dam a little down river, you could have some fill there. There are large swaths of land that aren't developed right next to the river in both cities. So if the level was raised like it was downtown, you do have the potential for development. The problem that then arrises is, does that become land that is desirable or would it be all for not? Personally, i can't imagine why anyone would want to build there. There's a dump within view. There is very little road traffic and the roads to that area are lacking. So if a development did come about, then there would need to be some major infrastructure changes...not to mention someone would have to buy up that land to develop it....and put in a few bridges. Don't get me wrong, I've got some great visions in my head for what it could poentially look like. But I also have to consider the reality of what would go there. With the canal being so close, a restauruant district wouldn't work (plus the river smells unlike the canal). Big Box stuff is on the other side along with the hotels. So i'm just not sure what WOULD go there.

One thing I could picture would be a commercial office space area. Think a less fancy pants version of The Woodlands.....or even think like where Dell is now. Have a water feature there and you can create a "look" for the area. Throw in some developments of some 4 story low rise office structures (and the needed infrastructure for them), and you might just inject some life into an area that had no real purpose!

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## Dubya61

MWC citizens might ought to look at Sidewalk Sid's post number 43 in the Moore forum thread: "New Central Park for Moore".  I wonder if there's a spot that a plan like that could be undertaken in MWC.  Is there a spot in MWC where some urbanism can be injected? and then maybe spread a bit?

BTW, even if you don't like the idea of expanding the Oklahoma River, the idea to get passenger rail to MWC in that map is tantalizing, eh?

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## Just the facts

> Is there a spot in MWC where some urbanism can be injected? and then maybe spread a bit?


Heritage Park Mall site.

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## mmonroe

If you guys will give me a month, (this is pushing me to move forward now with it), I have a few proposed ideas for midwest city i've had for a little while and have put it on the back burner of my 20% pile. I'll get these presentable and you can ooh and ahh over them, or hate them.  You might see some surprises you've never thought of before.

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## Just the facts

Looking forward to it.  I so wish I could draw or had a computer program that could do it for me.  Alas, I can't draw a crooked line.

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## goodfriday

Looking forward to it Mr. Mmonroe.

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## mmonroe

> If you guys will give me a month, (this is pushing me to move forward now with it), I have a few proposed ideas for midwest city i've had for a little while and have put it on the back burner of my 20% pile. I'll get these presentable and you can ooh and ahh over them, or hate them.  You might see some surprises you've never thought of before.


hehe this is a big project.

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## easternobserver

> hehe this is a big project.


DEL City is sort of doing its own mini maps.  Bond issue last year for major drainage and fire trucks and storm sirens.  Lst temporary sales tax did new city hall, new police station, redone community center and a bunch of roads.  Newly approved temporary sales tax is for new library, new senior center, new fire station, new sports complex, new public works building and a bunch of redone streets.  Also just did massive widening on 15th.  New development at i40 and Sooner was partially publicly funded.  New hotel and convention center at i40 and Scott just approved for TIF funding.  Dont forget the dog park and what has been done at Eagle Lake (much more needed there).  Also working on a preservation district for neighborhood north of City Hall.

Strong council' strong neighborhood watches, responsible budgeting made possible support for big efforts to clean up housing areas, do infill commercial redevelopment, close apartments and look to the future.

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## grandshoemaster

I was wondering where I could find more info on the hotel and convention center at Scott street.

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## easternobserver

> I was wondering where I could find more info on the hotel and convention center at Scott street.


I assume its all public record.  I usually watch the city council on the local cox channel and there were several public hearings with presentations from all the lawyers back a few months ago...

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## grandshoemaster

Thanks!

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## Eagles_07

Their building a hotel and convention center on Scott St are they nuts thats major crime center of Del City.

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## bombermwc

Not to be rude, bu there aren't too many areas in Del City where the crime rate is all that different. DC is a pretty small town, land area wise. And it's also full. Much like any other city, a couple blocks over in either direction makes a big difference. But i would say the areas on the SW corner of DC have migher crime than that portion which is smack-dab in the middle of the city.

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## mmonroe

Do we have a link to this information yet?  Also, I have not forgotten about this project, but like I said, it's a big project, lol.

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## Plutonic Panda

> If you guys will give me a month, (this is pushing me to move forward now with it), I have a few proposed ideas for midwest city i've had for a little while and have put it on the back burner of my 20% pile. I'll get these presentable and you can ooh and ahh over them, or hate them.  You might see some surprises you've never thought of before.


What happened to this? I was really looking forward to seeing this.  :Frown:

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## mmonroe

4th quarter is my busy season.  Still not forgot about this.  Figured out the perfect way to put this together, should have something up before Christmas.

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## goodfriday

I'm looking forward it it !!

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## Plutonic Panda

> I'm looking forward it it !!


I am too, and have been for a year lol. . .  :Wink:

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## Plutonic Panda

Well, I can tell you one thing MWC needs to fix is their roads. They are rivaling Denton in North Dallas area as some of the worst roads I've ever seen.

MWC also needs to "clean" up the community. It is very displeasing to look at and looks very ghetto in some places.

I think there is huge potential especially with Tinker being there.

Here's what I would do

Improve City Streets (100 Million)New Parks and improvements (75 Million)New trails and sidewalks 75 million)Mass transit funding (50 million)Creating a new canal from the Oklahoma River and digging a massive hole creating an artificial lake (? millions?)Various beautification Projects (15 Million)

The city streets would identify high traffic corridors and widen them to six lanes where needed and rehabilitate existing ones reconstructing them. I would have a study done for completely reconstructing the service roads widening them to three lanes each way and making them one way. Those service roads along I-40 are among the worst I've ever encountered. Remember, the service road reconstruction would only be a study at this point and then another massive gobond for MWC could actually start construction.

Really that entire stretch of I-40 needs to be rebuilt in concrete and they might as well add a lane in each direction up to Tinker AFB and add new landscaping and create longer on ramps. That is up to ODOT though to do that. I would have the city contribute funding towards the service roads however.

The new parks would build new parks where needed and rehab older ones.

New trails would create a master plan for the city creating a bike and jogging trail network that would go from Tinker and create a pedestrian bridge over I-40 and go up to the northwest part of MWC and connect to the Oklahoma River. I would say 50 million or so would go to studying and getting the network started with additional funding later. The rest would go to sidewalks where needed.

Mass transit would establish a bus network which I don't think MWC has. If they do, than add new buses, shelters, routes, extend operating hours, and a new bus barn. I am honestly just guessing on that one currently and if anyone has any information otherwise, please correct me on this.

The beautification projects would beatify the city more. New landscaping, city properties updated and beautified, and other various aesthetic improvements.

Now here is a big project.

Now the new canal would essentially create a new "mini river" channeling water from the Oklahoma River and then they could create a small lake where a new lifestyle center could be built. Essentially a miniature lake community could be built based off of new urbanism. 

This would be the subject site. You have MWC on the left and DelCity on the right.


Now this would likely be best if Del City chipped in and partnered with MWC. Oklahoma City would also likely have to do something as it would require multiple dams and one further east to back up water where it could be sufficient to fill up a man-made lake. This wouldn't even be a square mile, but large enough where you could have small water craft on it.

There could then be a few 15-25 hotel and condo mid rises, a lifestyle center, with other living and recreational activities built by private developers.

The way I would do this is first try and partner with Del City seeing if they are interested. Then speak with OKC and try to establish a new lock-dam further east. Then I'm sure you'd have to do something to get approval from Oklahoma government and have environment studies done. Once you can get that cleared, hire a new group that can work with developers and recruit new major retailers and hotel chains to try and make sure you have a few projects that are a go once this is done.

Here are few examples, just imagine a smaller lake













I proposed something like this for Norman, but on a much larger scale and on a larger lake. Like I said, this lake probably wouldn't be too deep and less than a square mile. Anything that is mid-rise would go closer to the river and the rest of the development could surround the lake. Perhaps a little carnival could work as well.

Not sure exactly the cost and I know it wouldn't be cheap. I would say though it would spur tons of new development and ultimately be great for the city. Make it a 10 year tax and working with the other cities to split the cost of the river/lake development, which would be the biggest project.

Anyways, I think that would be good. MWC is an awesome city that I think has tons of potential. I think it is missing out on development and could really take off if the right things happen.

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## bombermwc

The major problem with this is the development you're proposing is north of 10th street. As far as most MWC residents are concerned, that part of the city doesn't even exist. So getting anyone to agree to pay for that much in bond/tax/whatever is going to be a VERY hard sale. Del City already has Eagle Lake, and it hasn't spurred any development or even re-development near there on Reno, which isn't as bad off as north of 10th. That area is extremely economically depressed, but also has no spark of interest from the city. Unfortunately, I think you would find that if the city invested all that money in the area, they would find themselves holding on to a lot of real estate with not developers. It's miles away from highway access, and the demographic stats don't show support for any development there.

I don't disagree that something should be done to help spark things up again, but there's only so much a city can do to encourage businesses to move in if there isn't a population to support it. MWC cash is all out east of Douglas, but there isn't much that can be done to make things "interesting" there. Draper is only a short drive away for MWC lake enthusiasts. "lake fronted" developments already do exist in MWC, but again, on the east side. And for those areas, it's purposely not for watercraft, which makes the residents happy to not have the traffic/noise. 

MWC definitely could use a movie theater. I'm really not sure why it's been so long since we've been able to get something going for one. Not having one of any consequence in EOC stinks. But if I had to guess, id say that the theater companies have analyzed zip code info for years and determined that the construction cost doesn't warrant it. Crossroads isn't exactly bustling with activity. MWC people drive downtown or to Moore for their movies.

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## mmonroe

So... about 3 years ago I mentioned giving my rendition of a version of MAPs for Midwest City.  After having a very busy time with business and still having nothing to show for it, i'm changing my path of passion and now I have some free time and starting next Sunday, the 22nd of March, I will start showing ideas for what I call "Midwest City Area Projects".. not very original I know, but every Sunday after that I will post another area.  Each area will be one square mile out of the 9 square miles that I believe make up the "core" of Midwest City and will focus on those areas.  

Not that anything will come out of this, I do have a passion for sharing ideas for my city.

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## goodfriday

I'm so happy that the idea's are still flowing. I loved what Plutonic Panda had to say. That to me is a perfect MAPS starter project. I am looking so forward to what mmonroe has to say. I've been waiting so patiently. Lol. Can you guys imagine how nice our city could be if we would all just chip in 1 penny per sales tax.  I'm not a economist so is that a bad thing ??????????  I'd gladly do it.

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## mmonroe

TOMORROW!  

I'm not home and can't upload files I can't remote to so when I'm home tomorrow.. uploads will come.  It's finished, just don't have access to it.

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## bombermwc

You know, I've always been pretty happy with the roads in MWC (4 lane streets), but I'd really like to see the city do some major repaving on the east side 2-laners.

I'd also like to see them follow through on the Original Mile plans (signage, gates, fencing, etc).

Taking a cue from Plutonic, I think making use of the river on the north side of the city could help spur some development in an otherwise depressed part of MWC. The area north of 10th has always been a black hole of ANY development at all. What little there is, is centered around 23rd and Douglas. MWC doesn't have a direct connection to the river (all it has is crutcho creek), so I don't know how anything with the river would be handled there. I have no topographical information on MWC but I wonder how difficult it would be to even make a man-made lake up in the far north areas? Something on the smaller size (fit with 1 sq mile) could be a watersport attraction and COULD help bring in some other development. There's a lot of traffic on 66/23rd from points further east over to I-35. It SHOULD be a focus of attraction instead of passthroughland.  Im thinking the sod farm section between Midwest and Air Depot, north of the rail line. Soldier and Crutcho Creeks both split right on top of that land, so maybe that could be a benefit for that site?

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## mmonroe

OLD.jpg

My last save didn't save apparently... so I have to redo this, but here is a peek of a halfway done file... :/  notice no trees or finished sidewalks and the lower left is completely missing...

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## Johnny5

lets keep this going....

I'm all in for an entertainment venue for MWC. We got shopping and restaurants but wheres all the fun besides events being hosted by the City?

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## Brett

> DEL City is sort of doing its own mini maps.  Bond issue last year for major drainage and fire trucks and storm sirens.  Lst temporary sales tax did new city hall, new police station, redone community center and a bunch of roads.  Newly approved temporary sales tax is for new library, new senior center, new fire station, new sports complex, new public works building and a bunch of redone streets.  Also just did massive widening on 15th.  New development at i40 and Sooner was partially publicly funded.  New hotel and convention center at i40 and Scott just approved for TIF funding.  Dont forget the dog park and what has been done at Eagle Lake (much more needed there).  Also working on a preservation district for neighborhood north of City Hall.
> 
> Strong council' strong neighborhood watches, responsible budgeting made possible support for big efforts to clean up housing areas, do infill commercial redevelopment, close apartments and look to the future.


Dropped by the Del City library over the weekend and noticed a sign posted on the south side of SE 15th St where the Del City ball park is located stating that the undeveloped site will be the future location for the new Del City library. I would love to know if there are blueprints or images of the proposed new library.

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## Trisha

> Dropped by the Del City library over the weekend and noticed a sign posted on the south side of SE 15th St where the Del City ball park is located stating that the undeveloped site will be the future location for the new Del City library. I would love to know if there are blueprints or images of the proposed new library.


the New Del City Library will be across 15th & a lil closer to Sunnylane , where Sunnylane Bowl used to be, there was an article in one of the papers a few years ago that the MLS had bought the former Sunnylane Bowl & would be moving / Building a new DC Library in it's place... , they may be waiting until they finish the construction on the Jones Library before starting on the DC one..

I will be happy when they do, I don't visit DC Lib much but there is no Extra room in it.. , MWC Lib has plenty of xtra seating space & tables where you can work on projects/ hold an informal meeting of a couple adults at & that's just IN the Library itself

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