# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Midwest City/Del City >  125 Million School BOnd Issue

## Redskin 70

Mid Del Schools  has called for a $125 million bond vote on December 14th.  Its purpose to close and tear down several schools in the district,  remodel and expand others.
Your thoughts?

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## kevinpate

Seems to have done some good in OKC.  Hopefully Norman will someday soon fully ditch and not cling to the modular classroom dependency of the past.  There's been progress, but not as much as there could be

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## bombermwc

It's about consolidation and remove redundancy as the population distribution in the district changes. Do we really need Sooner Rose and Traub elementaries 1/2 a mile away from each other? No. If you look at the populations, the Del City side has been slowly losing ground...in fact they are going to be 5A soon since they are at the bottom of the ASDM numbers....#32 to be exact in the last count. Now that West Side is also empty, why keep it? They always had to come up with reasons to keep the building popluated.

So I'm really in favor of it. Unfortunately, when they brought it up last time, they had a lot of people give the old arguement of "i went to this school and so should my kid". So that totally ignores the issue and doesnt fix anything.

I do wish the district would advertise more what their plan is. The last slideshow they had on it (which is on their site) isn't valid anymore and doesn't really tell you what they are going to do anyway.

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## Redskin 70

Good points so far.  Havent really decide if for or against, just want to get more information other than the little blurb in the paper

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## Ratnest

I think that the proposal is absurd.  Spending that amount of money in this economy shows the utter contempt that the school administration holds for the voters. If the administration was remotely accountable they would have sold the redundant schools to allow newer development and more tax revenue.

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## Redskin 70

Have found out they intend to close, Traub, Rose, West Side and Jarman, ALso Kerr and Highland Park.
Gonna double the size of Del Crest and Townsend and move other admin function to Monroney.
Several new schools proposed to include Country estates and a new one out east........

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## Lauri101

I can see reasoning for everything but Jarman. The middle school kids feeding Jarman would go to Monroney?  That's a long way - probably would need bus service increased for some neighborhoods.

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## bombermwc

I think part of Jarman's reasoning is that so much of the place is sooooo old and not well maintained. I went to jarman and really enjoyed my time there. But I won't be super duper sad to see it go. What I do think, is that they need to doze it and rebuild it somewhere rather than just tossing another middle school. They've said for quite some time they think Monroney can handle all of the students....but I've always looked at it and thought....um Monroney isn't the size of MCHS and that's the population you're talking about squeezing in there...about 600 more kids. Seems like Monroney really isn't prepared to handle that unless they increase it by several wings. And if you're going to do that, then why not just rebuild Jarman in phases? I'm all for consolidating elementary schools, but the middle schools don't seem empty enough for it to make sense to me.

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## Millie

What does the school district intend to do with the profit from selling the schools?  Some of the sites they're looking to sell have major commercial development potential.  Any chance they're going to scale back future bond issues for awhile?

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## Lauri101

Bombermwc - I agree - another middle school is needed to replace Jarman.  
It's too bad that, historically, at least part of Jarman (the original MCHS) can't be preserved.  As the OSM slowly gets renewed, we lose some of the flavor of the neighborhood.  Progress is good - but so is history so we can see our roots.

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## Thunder

I have never heard of Jarman in my entire life attending to Mid-Del schools! 

I agree on demolishing West Side, but only to flatten the land to make it pretty and ready to be sold.

Sooner Rose needs to be long gone and so do those yellow lights.

Traub needs to be resold for other uses and remove the yellow lights and the stop light.

Highland Park?  Never heard of it.

No reason to terminate Kerr.  Expand, yes, please.  Terminate?  Hell no.

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## Lauri101

Thunder - have you never attended a football game at Rose Field in MWC?  The building just to south of Rose Field is Jarman Middle School, home of the Rockets.  The original MWHS was built there.

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## Thunder

I don't remember.  Rose Field?  My memory gone shot. lol 

Oh, wait, when did MWCHS relocate?  I am trying hard here to remember.  Oh, the MWCHS is behind the school board office building is where I took my DL courses. 

Yeah, the school behind the new shopping center. I went to that field once when DCHS and MWCHS played together.  I thought that school was MWCHS, but then again the other one was, too.  Hmm, I did not really pay much attention. lol  I remember that school there, but been a long time since I drove by it.  Knew of a school there, went to the football field there once, but never knew of the Jarman name.  :-O

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## bombermwc

Thunder...wow. Let me give you some background. Mid-Del schools started at Jarman. It was the original school...the first. It started as temporary sctructures until they area raised enough money to start building an actual school. It served as THE school until they started splitting things out. MCHS moved to 15th St (and if you've never seen it, all i can say is that you must be really blind). About the same time, they built East and West Side elementaries. That's the period when Mid-Del exploded as the population in the Mid-Del area also exploded. MCHS was actually rebuilt on it's current site as well...so what you see now isn't anything like what it was when it first moved. I'm told the first building on 15th was pretty crappy. For some more detailed info on the history, I can direct you to the MCHS Band website... http://bomberband.com/history.html

Jarman isn't as rough as it once was though either. An airplane crashed into the building back in the 60's or early 70's...can't remember which. It burned a lot of the building so about half of the school isn't that old. Really, the only OLD part is the far west section that's the old "house" type construction. Mrs. Woodard, Cody, Dobbs, Hennsesy, Mr Adams, etc. were all on that end when I was there. There's never been anything specatular about the building, but they made significant improvements my Freshman year. They repainted everything inside, put new flooring down, and then replaced the lockers the next year. The doors all sucked, but honestly, I never felt like it was any more crappy than any other school in the district. What it does have against it is that it's not very friendly for upgrades. Modern technology doesn't fit well in that building and it's always had to be "made to work". Even the computer labs at that time were squeezed in there. 

I wish they had kept the gymnatorium though. It's been a LONG time since they bricked up that wall and just left it as the second gym, but it would have been better than the cafetorium crap they have now...that NO ONE uses. That little dinky stage isn't worth anything. Here's a picture of what it WAS like:

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## bombermwc

Thunder, I think you'll appreciate these: Here are two shots of the MCHS Band playing at the opening of Crossroads Mall

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## Redskin 70

Yep, in watching the video put out by the school board, it would appear they are really  wating a lOT of money just in  basic maintenance of these 50+ year old buildings.  From a financial standpoint most buildings do reach a end of useful life span  and renovations of such old buildings can be more expensive than just build new.
Kerr Jr High kinda sucks as my three all went there but it has burned down twice and is the home of the ONLY  school student homicide in the district and that was in 73.  I also understand  that Kerr is in the Tinker air base  flight zone and if something ever happened to it again it could NOT be rebuilt so I would consider this a  reasonde stratigic move to replace it  while they can......................$125 million though wow...my aching back.  Some times I think I am the only donkey pulling the load

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## Thunder

Redskin, when did Kerr burned down twice?  Using the term, burned down, technically states the entire complex to the ground.  Last I checked, it is all still standing.  It is a great school and I went there for 3 years.  Very spacious, too.  There really is no need or reason to demolish this school.

You mentioned the flight zone... LOL!  There are other houses in the area.  And right behind the school, there are new businesses slowly developing as a shopping plaza/center.

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## Redskin 70

kerr severely burned in the 80's and again in the 90's both times rebuildable.
Yes if you look at the  Tinker Flight path overlay it is in the  APZ zone

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## Thunder

Interesting history.  Whole time I was there not a single noticeable scar or new bricks.  Fascinating.  

I still do not think it should be destroyed.

Did the fire happen during school hours?

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## Redskin 70

No, both of them were after hours and I think the second one was during Christmas break........But Frankly I would have to check with some old fire guys  for an accurate answer

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## okcguy89

The district does a good job of maintaining, it does well with the bond money that it's patrons give through passage of bonds.  Interesting is that we can get so much for not raising or taxes, it is a continuation of the existing tax which is the way the schools like to do bonds.  Bonds are the only real way to raise revenue for maintnance items and new construction in accordance with state law.  In the presentation I saw it showed the populations of the various schools in question and the numbers are done from where they were years ago, so the room is there. MMS is not as full as you might think, and Jarman isn't "that" far away.  Mile?? 

It is costly to maintain old structures through advances in technology to keeping it cool and warm.  If you can reduce the number of buildings you have to maintain and get newer more efficiant ones in the mean time, with out increasing our taxes what is not to like?  In the end our students and community deserves the very best it can get and this district has always done well with my tax dollars.

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## bombermwc

I think they are also prepping the district for 20 years from now when the numbers have decreased even more and MCHS and DCHS are both 5A....at which point, you really only need 1 middle school per high school. Consolidate now and you don't have to worry about it later. Both of their school boundaries are basically full at this point and enrollment won't go up unless they start adjusting the lines to include some of the CAHS area. Land area wise, CA has more space than MCHS and DCHS combined. But the population is much more sparse out in CAland.

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## Redskin 70

well it failed, but just barely.
Wonder if they will bring it up again or let it go?

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## Lauri101

15 votes!  That's all it failed by - I hope they try again and this time, get more information out.
Some of our neighbors did a knee-jerk "close Jarman? Oh, no!" reaction, rather than look at repercussions as bombermwc explained so well.  Plus, The Oklahoman did a horrible job at explaining the issue - one of the articles said all of the affected elementary schools were closing, instead of explaining they were consolidating.  
I don't have any kids in Mid-Del anymore, but any thinking person should be able to make the leap from good schools equal higher property values.  
Mid-Del gets an "F" for educating the public, but Mid-Del voters get an equal grade for not doing homework.

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## bombermwc

well the majority did still vote for it, but that stupid 60% rule that schools have to follow is why it failed. I'd like to see the 60% thing go.

Personally, I think Jarman and Kerr should stay, but I'd rebuild Jarman and rehab Kerr....or even rebuild it. Monroney and Del Crest aren't any better off than some of the elementary schools they want to toss...but I'm not going to stand in the way of something being done.

I remember going to East Side as a kid and seeing thick layers of plaster/paint peeling off every classroom wall. The wallpaper stuff didn't always stay down. The lights often went out and then made your class smell like burned popcorn. Noisy window air conditioners and heaters that the maintenance people had to come and light every year. Things like that just brush off to an 8 year old, but you look back and think...man that place sucked. I have a lot of wonderful memories there and really LOVED all of my time in Mid-Del, but at the same time, I"m not going to force someone to stay in a building that stinks just because I went there.....which is the arguement a lot of people are making.

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## Redskin 70

for a 15 vote difference they should recall the vote.  They can after 60 days I believe.
I think perhaps they went a bridge to far.........which did stick in peoples  craw.
I agree  though we need to improve our  school building stock.  Just because my three went to Kerr doesnt lessen the fact it is an  old school

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## bombermwc

And why not start on the level of going elementary schools first. Then work on middle schools later or something like that.

One thing that blows, is now the band room at MCHS won't get expanded either. The band doesn't even all fit in the same room anymore. And for 20 years now, they have to have half the band rehearse (in concert season) in the lobby of the fieldhouse because there isn't a second room in the current building.

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## easternobserver

if they are serious about saving money through energy efficiency, they should have the architects design some world class, green buildings.  use geothermal heating and cooling, high-tech control systems, and sustainable materials... then put the building drawings on posters and in presentations.  prove that what they say they are selling is worth us buying.  instead they were cocky and assumed that they would get what they asked for....maybe now they will remember they have constituents who deserve to be included in the planning disucssions.

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## Millie

Well said.  I'm sick of being expected to write a blank check because it is "for the schools."

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## Thunder

I notice today the West Side school was nearly demolished.  Did they do that ahead of time expecting this bond issue will pass?

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## Drake

Ever wonder why MWC has a poor reputation? You have school buildings that were built in 40's & 50's that have pretty much reach the end of their useful life, but apparently that is too much to ask for some of the community. Edmond passes a bond issue for a swimming pool and we can't pass one for new buildings. 

Do you know how much the old buildings are costing the district in maintenance and heating & cooling costs? I promise they don't need to be "green" (and the extra $$ that comes associated being certified Green) to save the district a ton of money. MWC fire dept has made several runs to Soldier Creek this year because of furnace problems, and that is probably one of the better schools.

It is sad.

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## Thunder

What year was the DCHS built and the status on the whole campus?

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## bombermwc

Thunder - to answer the previous question - West Side was vacated as part of a totally different Plan. It wasn't part of the bond issue at all. It was emptied out before the start of the school year (basically the orchestra was the only permanent group left in there and now that's at Del City High). They district was looking for an out to offload the building and it was approved by the board way earlier this school year. It will be sold off and the funds put into the district's funds.

As for DCHS - I don't know the exact dates, but I believe it follows a similar history as MCHS. Moved to the current site somewhere in the 50's, but most got torn down to the ground and rebuilt over the next decade as things like the Commons were added. And they did both get a facelift in the mid 90's when the stucco got added. Neither building has AS MANY old crappy areas as the elementary schools though. For the most part, the district has always spent more on high schools than the lower schools as far as keeping them at a certain level (which is still lacking). The roof's at both schools still stink though...they're flat roof structures and they leak all the time. MCHS was notorious for having trashcans around the building when it rained. No matter how many times they put a new roof on, it still happens.

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## bombermwc

I thought I should mention one thing that not too many poeple have paid attention to. I want to make a statement in supporting the superindenent. He is miles and miles ahead of Dr. "Screw You" Steele. 

From day 1 - he started clearing house in the district of all the people that stayed on as Dr. Steele's money mooching enclave. A good number of people got the "I'm not going to stand for this crap and you can either quit/retire or get fired". I applaud him for cleaning things up.

He's not a hands-off person like she was. He gets down in the trenches and gets his hands dirty (literally) when there is a problem. Two quick examples: 1 - When that wind storm (never confirmed tornado) tore the roof off MCHS' commons a few years ago, he came in and helped clean up. He was pushing water out the door just like the janitors and staff. Dr. Steele would have just told someone to go do it.  2 - Monroney's band room had a fire at the beginning of the year from a stolen truck running into the building (it was set on fire and let run into the buildng - it wasn't intentionally aimed at the building, it just ended up in the path of the vehicle). At 2am, he's there helping move all the equipment out of the band room (music/instruments/chairs/stands/etc) so it can avoid water damage. Again, Dr. Steele would have had someone do it for her.

He's also a thurough planner. This bond issue was the result of years worth of studies he's had going on. He's had this focus on buildings since he got to the district. In fact, in his first year in the disctrict, he came to a MCHS band event and spoke to the boosters on some of his plans and did a 30 minute Q/A with them. Steele just wanted to cut band out as a drain while she got a raise (there was a protest in 96 about that...she didn't win). In the lunches he has every week with kids from each high school, one of his questions was about the buildings from day 1, and that's something the kids don't like either. The MCHS kids mentioned the ever-leaking roof for one. But what impresses me is how he does listen. He listens to what people say and includes that in his planning instead of ruling from on-high like Steele did. I've personally met both of them and it's night and day. All I can say is, I really wish this thing would have passed. Even though it kills one of the schools I went to, I know it would have been better in the long run. 

And just because it means someone can't walk to school anymore, doesn't make it a bad thing. When people give reasons like that, it makes me think "so you'd rather have them walk to the paint peeling, falling apart crap building, than go to a brand new nice school". Or the tired excuse of "my dad went to this school, I went to this school, my kid goes to this school....blah blah". Except the fact your grandkid went to the school you did probably tells you that it's not a good thing....we're not talking about turn of the century historic built like a rock schools, we're talking about crap that was slapped together in the 50's folks.

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## Thunder

I have never seen any leaking roof when I was there.  And I remember they replaced new roof on top, I think I was still there or afterward, that part I don't remember, but I remember seeing guys up on top replacing the roof.  The inside was leak-free and it is a good school, very spacious.

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## Midtowner

> if they are serious about saving money through energy efficiency, they should have the architects design some world class, green buildings.  use geothermal heating and cooling, high-tech control systems, and sustainable materials... then put the building drawings on posters and in presentations.  prove that what they say they are selling is worth us buying.  instead they were cocky and assumed that they would get what they asked for....maybe now they will remember they have constituents who deserve to be included in the planning disucssions.


Really?

You think $160MM is bad, just go ahead and triple or double that if you want them to do what you're suggesting.

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## Drake

Bomber & Midtowner are spot on with their previous 2 posts.

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## bombermwc

Well they had replaced the one at MCHS when i was there in the 90's....that's the whole point why it's crap. The roof just doesn't last no matter what you do. When I went to East Side, I remember part of the roof being redone every year. That smell is unmistakable. 

Flat roof = bad mojo and guaranteed leaks. I would like to see a conversion like Crutcho did to a metal angle roof...but that's really expensive and doesn't solve the population shift problem that consolidation fixes.

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## Midtowner

Bomber, thanks for your insight as to the new admin.  It seems like folks such as Millie and easternobserver are the sorts of ignorant ne'er-do-wells who hold us back.  They have obvious strong opinions based upon what they perceive is going on.  Yet they have no actual knowledge as to any of the facts on the ground.  Sad really.  The District needs to hire a PR person and give this another shot.  Recruit the parents to get out the vote where possible.

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## Lauri101

Mid and Bomber - you are both on target.  The negative publicity overran the facts of this bond issue.  Both my kids went through the Eastside/Jarman/MCHS route and I did my time as a PTA mom, etc.  These schools are sick buildings and need to be updated, repaired or replaced.  Sadly, from what I heard as I stood in line to vote - I think the older voters were completely confused and didn't understand what was being voted on.  (Yeah - I'm "older", but lucky enough to have neighbors who work in the system)
And Bomber - right on in your comments about Steele!  Worst superintendent we ever had!
I hope they can call this one again in February - but there has got to be some educaiton done first.

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## Drake

> Bomber, thanks for your insight as to the new admin.  It seems like folks such as Millie and easternobserver are the sorts of ignorant ne'er-do-wells who hold us back.  They have obvious strong opinions based upon what they perceive is going on.  Yet they have no actual knowledge as to any of the facts on the ground.  Sad really.  The District needs to hire a PR person and give this another shot.  Recruit the parents to get out the vote where possible.


I think will pass rather easily next time around. Many voting parents (and others) didn't think there was much danger of it not passing and led to a low turnout.

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## Millie

Mid, are you suggesting that I'm ignorant of the facts of the bond issue, or of life in general?  
I'd bet nearly anything I have that I've been to more Mid-Del school board meetings than you, and that I know more about the political issues behind the decisions that the school board made about the schools that are closing, etc.  I'm all for progress, if it is truly progress and not the padding of somebody's pockets/personal interests.  
The truly ignorant, imho, are the people who vote yes in every election posed by a school district because they feel that they are truly voting in the best interest of students, education, or the area's future.  If you have reviewed all the facts (and not just the schools' glossy brochure) and you genuinely believe that the proposed bond--exactly as proposed--is best for the Mid-Del area, then your opinion is different than mine but at least educated.  If you want to make the blanket statement that everybody who voted against the bond is against all progress then you, my friend, are the ignorant one in this matter.

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## bombermwc

I'm going to have to defend Millie to some extent here. If you actually firmly believe that the plan was not in the best interests of the students, then that's totally your right to have that opinion....and it was expressed in the vote. However, all we had to go off of was the statement about the kid not being able to walk to school anymore. That, I feel, is an example of an uneducated voter. 

I believe the district would be open to other options, and if you would like to form a plan to present to the board, I'm sure they would at least consider it. If I had a way to rebuild Jarman, I would like to do that. I don't like the fact that they are closing two middle schools and making the district have only 3 total (and those being the size of each of their corresponding high schools). HOWEVER, considering the state of the facilities, I'm ok with that happening if it means the other facilities get that work done. If you took a look at the new elementary school and compare that to what is around now....i think you will see the difference. There was a good 3D model somewhere, and now for the life of me can't remember where it was.

It also means the middle schools that will be left will get a significant improvement and facelift. They will be adding on to those locations to make room for the new students. Hopefully the staffs will merge rather than just riff them as well. For something like band, when you merge Jarman and Monroney, you need that 3rd director (monroney already also has an assistant since they have so many band students) so you don't have someone teaching all 7 hours a day. I say that because they'll have to split up the band classes even more than they are now to physically fit the kids in the room. Keep this small example in mind....

The MCHS band room was to be expanded in this bond issue because they don't fit in the current building. When you go from middle school to high school, you lose a few kids in band...it just happens. So you take the high school band and add even more kids to it...try to cram that in a middle school band room. Not gonna happen.

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## Thunder

http://www.koco.com/education/27017209/detail.html

The fight begins! Its time to remove those schools and the yellow lights!

(But... Leave Kerr Jr High alone!)

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## bombermwc

Thunder - that's the problem, no one wants "their school". Voters decided that it was more important to maintain crappy pieces of junk, but have them in THEIR area, than give the students new, modern, capable buildings. They'd rather have 60+ year old schools with lead pain, asbestos, leaking roofs, bad technology, etc, than get new buildings much better prepared to teach a child. No one want's "their" school to go because " my pappy went there, i went there, and little johnny went there". Big whoop. Again, little Johnny is getting a pile of crap to go to school in...way to look out for his future.

And I'm not going to be called hypocritical here....I went to Jarman, which was on the block for closure as well. I agree that it's a pile of crap as well. I don't neccessasrily believe that Del Crest and Monroney can handle the influx of students when Jarman and Kerr close, but I'd rather see improvements made at those facilties than continue with the crap that is Kerr and Jarman. And considering the declining enrollment at Del City High and their slip down to 5A in the next year or so, 1 middle school will be adequate. Midwest City is going to get there too, it just might take a little longer for enrollment to drop enough. 

So what the school board is saying to the public is, "we're going to force your hand. This work HAS to be done and it's now up to you to give us the funds to make up for it. If you don't, then overcrowding will continue and it will be your fault for not voting for it...twice". On one hand I do think it's crappy that they are moving ahead before they have a plan in place, but on the other hand at least this way the voters really need to get their heads out of their butts and vote this time.

Point of note though, the last bond issue BARELY failed. And many people reported they didn't go vote FOR the measure because they didn't think it would have any problem passing given the district's past passing rate. If they re-voted on it, it would pass. The district failed to get the masses out last time...they won't make the same mistake again.

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## Thunder

I love the 7, 8, and 9th for Jr High (Mid-Del changed the term to Middle) and the 10, 11, and 12th for high school.  You say that there is declining enrollment at DCHS.  Well... Since Mid-Del got it right while most other schools got it wrong, but... I guess they could move over the 9th with the high school group and move over the 6th with the middle school group.  Altho, it will be a disastrous graduation change among exiting elementary and middle levels.

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## Lauri101

> I love the 7, 8, and 9th for Jr High (Mid-Del changed the term to Middle) and the 10, 11, and 12th for high school.  You say that there is declining enrollment at DCHS.  Well... Since Mid-Del got it right while most other schools got it wrong, but... I guess they could move over the 9th with the high school group and move over the 6th with the middle school group.  Altho, it will be a disastrous graduation change among exiting elementary and middle levels.


Thunder - they've already done that - Mid-Del Schools have been 6-8 and 9-12 for a few years now.

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## Thunder

> Thunder - they've already done that - Mid-Del Schools have been 6-8 and 9-12 for a few years now.


Amazing.  Good thing I was done before that awful change.

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## Redskin 70

well its official.
The school board in an emotional knee jerk reaction voted to surplus and sale Sooner and Traub.

and they didnt allow any citizen input.  Just called the motion, voted and walked away

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## PennyQuilts

> well its official.
> The school board in an emotional knee jerk reaction voted to surplus and sale Sooner and Traub.
> 
> and they didnt allow any citizen input.  Just called the motion, voted and walked away


'Spect they knew they'd get hysterical patrons.  

I'm willing to bet a lot of the same people upset about this voted against the bonds.  There ain't no money tree.  I feel bad for them.  I expect few of them really thought this would happen.

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## Thunder

http://www.koco.com/education/27031807/detail.html

Kerr Jr High was saved!!!

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## Drake

> well its official.
> The school board in an emotional knee jerk reaction voted to surplus and sale Sooner and Traub.
> 
> and they didnt allow any citizen input.  Just called the motion, voted and walked away


Why do you consider it an "emotional knee jerk reaction"?

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## easternobserver

how do you not have a public hearing?  oh wait, they had one -- it was called an election, and they lost.

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## Redskin 70

> Why do you consider it an "emotional knee jerk reaction"?


because I know one of the school board members.........and I know their thoughts on loosing the election..................
hope that answers your question

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## Redskin 70

> http://www.koco.com/education/27031807/detail.html
> 
> Kerr Jr High was saved!!!


no thunder, shallow victory, they want Kerr shut down and that will also happen, this is merely the first shot

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## Drake

> how do you not have a public hearing?  oh wait, they had one -- it was called an election, and they lost.


If you consider 59.9% to 40.1% a loss, you are correct.

Money spent has to be cut somewhere. Pouring it into buildings that are past their useful life doesn't seem like a great idea.

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## Drake

> because I know one of the school board members.........and I know their thoughts on loosing the election..................
> hope that answers your question


OK. Then what should be done? 

Any ideas on how to move forward? Status quo?

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## Redskin 70

> OK. Then what should be done? 
> 
> Any ideas on how to move forward? Status quo?


How would you proceed?

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## Drake

> How would you proceed?


Well, I honestly believed closing down old buildings & consolidating (which would a great idea for the state overall) these schools was a good idea. I am sure these were all great schools in their day, but it's time for some decisions to be made. Maintaining all of these seperate buildings, plus having principals, suppport staff etc that go along with all these seperate schools is unecessary.

So basically what the school district proposed. Not saying their plan was perfect, but something needs to be done. I see where Edmond is getting started on their swimming pool that their voters for the night we didn't pass ours.

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## bombermwc

I've always been a consolidation fan myself. This was a great plan that actually would have allowed for a lot of cost savings. Why the crap do we think we had Maps for Kids folks....it was the same damn thing....this time it's just Mid-Del. The people that make the same old arugment of "that's where i went to school" simply ignore the problem and wany money to come from nowhere....it's stupid.

Thunder - as for enrollment, the OSSAA has what's called ASDM's (average student daily attendnce numbers). They have always calculated 9-12 whether the school had 9the graders or not so that it was a fair count across all districts. The 9th graders at the Mid-Del jr. highs were counted into their high school numbers. So when the 9th graders moved up, the numbers didn't change. That also means that the decline in enrollment at DCHS continues. They are #32 in 6A (the smallest 6A school). Shawnee moves back to 5A in the next 2 year rotation (classes are determined on a 2 year basis, not anually). But between Shawnee, US Grant, NW Classesn, Booker T, Tulsa Memorial....that last 6A spot will be up for grabs and it's not going to be Del City for long. US Grant actually has more students enrolled, but they didn't attend classes. That's why their principal (a former Jarman teacher) pushed for so kids to put their butts in their seats. It affected their enrollment and actually bumped them above Midwest City in size....crazy huh.

So we can either attempt to attack the problem and do something that gives the students better facilties and resources, or we can continue to stick our head in the sand and ignore it. The majority of voters passed the bond issue. If failed to pass because of the stupid backwards super-majority that ONLY schools have to have....and by less than 300 votes. So to say the district overwhelmingly lost, is false. The voters showed they want it by a majority. Now the district will simply start the closure process on it's own and overcrowd the school. Then they can use that as a means to say they need school expansion and the bond will be re-organized and passed. So folks, whether you wanted your schools closed or not...it's happened. Next in line, Jarman and Kerr. If it doesn't happen this year, i bet it happens next year. But it's a lot harder for Monroney and Kerr to absorb that many kids than Sooner Rose and Traub to split to other schools in the area.

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## Drake

Well said Bomber

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## Wambo36

As I understand it, they have plans to sell Traub to Rose State with the stipulation that they can lease it back from them until they (RS) can afford to have it torn down for their future plans. I have no idea what the plans are for Sooner Rose.

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## Lauri101

Well stated and explained bombermwc!  You should have been doing PR for Mid-Del before the bond vote.  Mid-Del didn't get the word out as they should have

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## Thunder

I don't understand why enrollment is on the decline.  Have people gone sterile?! :-(

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## rcjunkie

> I don't understand why enrollment is on the decline.  Have people gone sterile?! :-(


No, they've rented moving vans!

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## Lauri101

> No, they've rented moving vans!


Are they having children in them?

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## rcjunkie

> Are they having children in them?


No, making them---if this Uhauls rocking don't bother knocking.

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## bombermwc

Thunder - that's sort of the way things go with any school. Enrollment has to do with the population with children. if you don't move away when your children graduate, then you get old...magic. So that means someone with children can buy your house and feed in. Mid-Del has had a very strong elderly population for 20 years...many of the people that built their homes in the original mile are still there. They are slowly passing away and others are moving in, but they don't neccessarily have children...and the same is happening in Del City.

More to the point though, Del City hasn't been an super attractor of new residents either. The population of the city itself isn't growing, thus there's a decline in population and that equates to fewer students. It's full and there's not much that can be done. Contrast that with the Carl Albert district that is larger than the MCHS and DCHS areas combined...but the density is so much smaller. I predict that if Carl Albert is in danger of becoming a 6A and we see DC in 5A...we'll see a re-drawing of the district lines. 

FYI - the district is putting the bond issue out again in September.

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## Redskin 70

So, back on this topic................doing some reasearch on the subject and it appears that MID DEL has current bond indebtness of$39.million dating back to 2005.
They dont plant to retire that amount any time soon  yet they want to saddle us with an additional 191 million for lease pruchase of new building.
And one of their talking points was this bond issue would not have raised our property tax....................let me see $39 vs 191.........even new math doesnt   equal that one out.
I do hear that citizen groups are forming to fight this proposed issue now.  ORganized to include former school bord members and both retired and active teachers.

Now aint that a kick in the arse.............

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## bombermwc

We'll see what happens in the fall with the new superintendent. Maybe the new person will have a different plan and alter the bond issue before the september vote. Or maybe the board will continue to act as they see fit and make it go forward as is.....

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## Redskin 70

was anyone aware that the States Attorney General is currently investigating this lease purchase  law the school system is proposing and believes it to be unconstitutional .
Further that the school board has already reached its statutorily approved millage cap and by state law cant go any higher..................unless they utilize another government entity trust authority to do this?

I thought not

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## Lauri101

Wouldn't be the first time the "Hospital Authority" has been used to further needs of MWC.  Didn't know the cap had been reached, though - thanks for info!

On the one hand - some of the practices in the past in MWC have pushed the envelope to questionable areas; however, as a MWC resident - I rather like the benefits we've reaped.

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## Redskin 70

But dont you smell collusion?   If in fact the school board used the  taxing authority of the hospital trust to try and fund their ponzi scheme, and within the existing law, thats the only way they doled do this,  and then they allowed the Hospital trust to actually bid on the school sale, even though not meeting the lease back requirement, that stinks of bad government.

And don't forget, if the school system is at their legal millage cap (and they are) and the structure of the  proposed bond issue places the 191 million on the property tax owners, than that would mean that for the next 30 years the property tax will never go down and you the property owner will be saddled with a caped millage against your assessed net value until you die. ( I do hope you are around longer than a mere 30 years)

My point is we have been misled.

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## Midtowner

First, it's unfortunate that the voters in MWC decided that funding their own public education wasn't important.  That, however, doesn't make the school board right for pursuing a plan B via a public trust whose stated purpose is not building schools.  It doesn't sound like you've been misled though, it just sounds like some politicians got overly creative in doing back room deals.  That said, I hope the voters send these guys a clear message at the polls.

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## Lauri101

Redskin - I see your point and you are correct - we have been mislead.  The whole eminent domain issue with Town Center reeked at the time, but I've selfishly been enjoying the ability to get to the stores easily.  I'm still a wee bit too young to benefit from the capped property taxes, and yes, my taxes have gone up every year as have my property values.

Midtowner - sadly, the bulk of the regular voters in MWC are retired folks who did not raise their children here or if they did, they don't care about the schools now.  The very same people crying about closing Traub and Sooner-Rose now probably stayed home on election day or worse - didn't stop to think what their "no" vote meant.  Maybe this will finally prod the registered voters to actually exercise their right and fulfill their responsibility.

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## bombermwc

Just some info, the school board voted against the Authority Backed buyer. That plan didn't include the lease option while they work out this whole building plan to correct the overcrowding they are creating. So for now, the students are still going to the same schools. Rose bought up the Traub site for their technical center, which I'm glad it went to them instead of waiting for it to buy up later. I wonder if they'll use it "as-is" for a while...it's already a school...lol.

It smells....right on it smells. They didn't get the plan they wanted and are trying to make it happen by other means. I, for one, would have voted for the bond issue in the first place (except i don't live in the mid-del district now). Even though it would have closed Jarman, having gone there I know what condition it's in. I don't agree with pushing everyone to Monroney, but I'm not going to stand in the way of progress because of it. But this plan just really smells. We'll see whether the community agrees with it when elections come around again. And remember, there will be a new superintendent next year as well since Scoggins is retiring.

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## plmccordj

I am going to vote no and encourage everyone I know to vote no.   This notion that a person voting no is somehow a vote against education is ridiculous.  This $120 million dollar bond issue would be outrageous in Oklahoma City.  The Mid-Del area is not a high end area and cannot afford to be taxed to death over a whim to build and tear down schools.  Simply throwing money at something is not always the fix.  The neighborhood is just full of section 8 homes with drug users and dealers.  Most of the kids in that neighborhood are walking the streets at 3:00 AM.  I have two sons that went to Del City High within the last two years.  I can tell you that if you ever went to a Mid-Del school recently you would know that money is not the issue.  My sons went to Epperly Heights, Del Crest, and Del City High and it was a horrible experience starting at about fifth grade.  Our problems were not the schools being inadequate but rather the neighborhood.  I sold my house of 12 years near Epperly Heights last July because I could not take it anymore.

That neighborhood had way more influence over my kids that his mother or I.  My son started smoking pot at 11 years old, fifth grade.  He was arrested several times and so were his friends.  The moment we would walk out the door and go to work, he would be gone.  He attempted to run away nine times and succeeded six of those times.  One time he was gone for six months before the police brought him home after he was in a car accident.  He is eighteen  years old now and I noticed that he did not come home last night.  After calling and calling around, I could find no information where he was.  Since we pay for his cell phone bill, I was able to log into the web site and look at his most recent calls.  I found where he had dialed 911 at 3:00 PM yesterday.  Later I found out that he tried to commit suicide and was in Midwest Regional Hospital.  I am not asking for sympathy but I can tell you that it has been our experience that Mid-Del schools are dealing with kids that have no interest in learning.

I can't remember how many times I was called to Del Crest to pick up my son just to see another two or three kids being taken away in police cars.  I cannot name a single friend of theirs that actually stayed until graduation.  Both of my sons dropped out in high school and then went to Mid-Del Technology center to study for their GED.  The last one got his GED at Oklahoma City Community College at 18 years old in December.  When our youngest was 13 years old, my wife would go to Del Crest to "shadow" him in all of his classes three days a week.  She was shocked to see the disruptions in the classroom with kids talking to each other and on the cell phones while the teachers were teaching.  There was never any effort to stop them from talking in the class.  My wife left there with a whole new perspective on things.  She said that she could barely concentrate on what the teacher was saying because no one was even paying attention to them and was talking.  

In my opinion, if you want to fix Mid-Del schools, then you need to get rid of these crack house section 8 houses.  I have noticed that the vast majority of government subsidized housing near where we lived were filled with parties day and night.  They did not work but they could buy beer and marijuana.    The house next door to us, 3725 SE 23rd Street was a huge trouble house.  The police were over there at least twice a week.  All I can say is that I never looked in the rear view mirror when I left that neighborhood.  Since most of the homes in that neighborhood are owned by a business and occupied by section 8 crack heads, that $120 million dollar school bond issue would really put an unfair burden on those people that actually care about their homes.  If they cut this bond issue in half it would still be too large.  You can count on an enthusiastic no vote from me and my friends.

The whole time we lived in that neighborhood there was always some criminal activity going on.  Our home was broken into, vandalized, neighbors blasting their stereos all night.

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## Lauri101

Oh horsehockey!  Both of my daughters (and others on this board) went through Mid-Del Schools and grew up to be fine, contributing members of society.  I know hundreds (yes, hundreds!) of people who graduated from M-D schools and have college degrees and lucrative careers.  It seems presumptive to tarnish the entire Midwest City-Del City area because of your former neighborhood.

Teachers can only do so much.  Schools are not supposed to take the place of good parenting.  Sometimes a little tough love is what it takes - separate the child from the bad influence for a while.  And if your neighbors are selling crack and having wild parties, call the authorities - over and over again.  

If you moved from the neighborhood, how can you vote?  If you're still in the Mid-Del area, why don't you move?

I agree with bombermwc - the current machinations of the School Board don't pass the smell test.  But if we don't get rid of the schools that drain the resources so we can attract more teachers and improve the better facilities, we will never attract the young families with children we need to revitalize the two cities.

I voted yes before and I will again.

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## Thunder

> I am going to vote no and encourage everyone I know to vote no.   This notion that a person voting no is somehow a vote against education is ridiculous.  This $120 million dollar bond issue would be outrageous in Oklahoma City.  The Mid-Del area is not a high end area and cannot afford to be taxed to death over a whim to build and tear down schools.  Simply throwing money at something is not always the fix.  The neighborhood is just full of section 8 homes with drug users and dealers.  Most of the kids in that neighborhood are walking the streets at 3:00 AM.  I have two sons that went to Del City High within the last two years.  I can tell you that if you ever went to a Mid-Del school recently you would know that money is not the issue.  My sons went to Epperly Heights, Del Crest, and Del City High and it was a horrible experience starting at about fifth grade.  Our problems were not the schools being inadequate but rather the neighborhood.  I sold my house of 12 years near Epperly Heights last July because I could not take it anymore.
> 
> That neighborhood had way more influence over my kids that his mother or I.  My son started smoking pot at 11 years old, fifth grade.  He was arrested several times and so were his friends.  The moment we would walk out the door and go to work, he would be gone.  He attempted to run away nine times and succeeded six of those times.  One time he was gone for six months before the police brought him home after he was in a car accident.  He is eighteen  years old now and I noticed that he did not come home last night.  After calling and calling around, I could find no information where he was.  Since we pay for his cell phone bill, I was able to log into the web site and look at his most recent calls.  I found where he had dialed 911 at 3:00 PM yesterday.  Later I found out that he tried to commit suicide and was in Midwest Regional Hospital.  I am not asking for sympathy but I can tell you that it has been our experience that Mid-Del schools are dealing with kids that have no interest in learning.
> 
> I can't remember how many times I was called to Del Crest to pick up my son just to see another two or three kids being taken away in police cars.  I cannot name a single friend of theirs that actually stayed until graduation.  Both of my sons dropped out in high school and then went to Mid-Del Technology center to study for their GED.  The last one got his GED at Oklahoma City Community College at 18 years old in December.  When our youngest was 13 years old, my wife would go to Del Crest to "shadow" him in all of his classes three days a week.  She was shocked to see the disruptions in the classroom with kids talking to each other and on the cell phones while the teachers were teaching.  There was never any effort to stop them from talking in the class.  My wife left there with a whole new perspective on things.  She said that she could barely concentrate on what the teacher was saying because no one was even paying attention to them and was talking.  
> 
> In my opinion, if you want to fix Mid-Del schools, then you need to get rid of these crack house section 8 houses.  I have noticed that the vast majority of government subsidized housing near where we lived were filled with parties day and night.  They did not work but they could buy beer and marijuana.    The house next door to us, 3725 SE 23rd Street was a huge trouble house.  The police were over there at least twice a week.  All I can say is that I never looked in the rear view mirror when I left that neighborhood.  Since most of the homes in that neighborhood are owned by a business and occupied by section 8 crack heads, that $120 million dollar school bond issue would really put an unfair burden on those people that actually care about their homes.  If they cut this bond issue in half it would still be too large.  You can count on an enthusiastic no vote from me and my friends.
> 
> The whole time we lived in that neighborhood there was always some criminal activity going on.  Our home was broken into, vandalized, neighbors blasting their stereos all night.


People should not take this as general fact.  Its isolated.  Not all of Del City or everyone is like this.

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## Corndog1

If all my kids started smoking weed in 5th grade and I felt it was the neighborhood, I dont think I would have waited another 10 yrs to get my family out of that place.  I dont care what it would have taken, I would have been gone long before it got to my other kids, if that was truly the issue.

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## bombermwc

I'm totally 100% against just about everything plm said. And I'd agree with corndog. Parental involvement seems to be what I would point at for that situation. You can't expect a child to ignore all temptations, it's your responsibility to guide your child through it by being involved. Even the most deprived area can still have a good student....happens all the time. I guess you missed the accomplishments of the kids at DCHS....FYI - they post accomplishments on the school's website as well as the district's. You can also check the board meeting minutes from where they aknowledge those things.

Plus, it's a bond issue, your taxes don't go up so that argument is absolutely and positively wrong on every front. If the millage is maxed out, the only way they can adjust it is to have THE PEOPLE vote to increase it. They have done that before, but it's been a long time since they did that. In fact, I believe it was the early 90's from the last one I remember. I'd say it's actually due to increase it...mind you it's not like it's going to add 10K in property taxes. They always tell you exactlly what an impact it will have. The nice thing about a millage is, it's a very small increase so it doesn't affect the individual person that much, but because it's spread over such a large tax base, it adds up. 

Perhaps some education on the matter is due. But just for the record, I'm not going to give them a blank check just because it's education. Any district has to convince me that they need/should do what they are working for. Mid-Del's situation is one of declining enrollment and population shifts. Not to mention the high cost of maintaining old buildings. It's pretty similar to why Maps for Kids came about. They're spending so much on infrastructure just to maintain a building, that funding is continually eaten up by things like stupid flat-roofs. Consolidation of a few schools allows the benefits of that very thing (fewer parcels of land to pay for, fewer office staff, less utility cost, etc). Building the new school is EXACTLLY like Maps. With the newer facility, instaed of retrofitting the building one clasroom at a time over the span of 20 years (yes this has been the plan since the early 00's now and they still aren't anywhere near done), you can doze something like East Side and build a totally new school with plenty existing land to support the new school. And you don't have to pay for sooooo many things every year. They still have window AC's in most clasrooms in mid-del. The plaster walls in the elementary's peel in huge chunks. The roofs leak even though they get fixed it seems like every few years. Countless doors have to get replaced all the time. The heaters in most clasrooms still require a janitor to light the pilot light manually. A number of schools have a port-a-building mobile home yard out back because they haven't been able to build to adjust for the population shift. The list goes on and on.

I should also note that the average age of buildings in Mid-Del is approaching 60 years now. 60! You find me another district in town like that...including OKCPS now.

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## plmccordj

This message is too short so I am putting in this whole sentence.

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## plmccordj

This message is too short so I am putting in this whole sentence.

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## Millie

> Education in this state is a racket.  How many times have we been given the sob story that we have the lowest paid teachers in America?  How many elections have we had that were for education that passed?  The vast majority of them pass and no one questions it.  We raise taxes all the time in the name of education and somehow the teachers remain the lowest in America.  That sob story has played out and is the quickest way to get me to vote against it.  If it is for education, I am voting NO period.  We keep raising taxes and what does the state do?  They buy up every hospital downtown and put the OU logo on the buildings and then call it education. The whole time I went to OU they raised tuition every semester!  EVERY SEMESTER!  With every increase I received a sob story from David Boren about the hardship of the school.  That was always followed up by a claim that OU is still the cheapest school in the Big 12.  David Boren is just like every other Democrat in a leadership position in that they never met a tax they didn't like.
> 
> Even those that would ordinarily vote yes for an education initiative vote no for this one because it is over the top outrageous.  $100+ million from the Mid-Del are is completely outrageous.  You can bet that this one will go down worse than it did last time.  It is a quest for me to vote against it.  I love OKCTalk.com but you must admit that there are the most lofty left wingers you will ever run into.  Go ahead and belittle me all you want but you people need to come back down to earth.


Surprised Midtowner hasn't started calling you all the same names he called me when I said this.

Glad to see that there's at least one other person out there who can grasp the idea that the school district isn't always benevolent and all-knowing.

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## plmccordj

Thunder, you must live on the East side of Sunnylane if you think this is an isolated case.  You must have your head deep in the sand, have your eyes closed.  Corndog, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.  The whole time we lived there we were in debt with medical bills and did not make enough money to move.  This is so typical of liberals to sit their drinking their Starbucks while telling the world about the underprivileged.  It wasn't until a year and a half ago that I got a decent enough job to get above the debt enough to get out of there.  My wife got a second job waitressing so that we could eat using her tips.  Also you have no idea what it is like to have a troubled child that is so stubborn that he is willing to go to jail to prove you wrong.  My son would never stand up to me or his mother but the moment we would walk out the door to go to work, he would run away.

Every time I would put my foot down, I would come home from work or get a call from Del Crest telling me that he did not show up from school.  I would go home and find a mean letter on the kitchen table.  We would not see him for days.  When I found out where he was, I told a Del City Police that I was going to pick him up and he told me that if I force him to come home against his will that I would be arrested.  When he was 13 he finally admitted that he was taking drugs.  We searched and found a place in Norman that would take him into drug rehab.  We all took off work on that sad day and spend the whole day down there just to be told that they will not take him and that DHS has been called on me because he told them that he was scared of me.

So corndog, don't take it personally when I completely disregard your statements as total ignorance. If any of you have had a kid that will run away at will in Del City, you will know what I am talking about.  Also I learned a painful lesson about the wonderful Del City parents.  On numerous occasions I would have parents tell me they never saw him just to find him arrested at their home.  Their answer to the question of why they would harbor a runaway would be that he told them that I would beat him up.  I would always tell them that if they suspect that I am abusing him then they have an obligation to report me to the police.  It was a tough five years.  Well now he lived with his girlfriend until Sunday when she kicked him out.  Now he is in the psychiatric ward at Midwest City hospital for attempted suicide.

Spare me your self righteous B.S. Corndog and Thunder because you have no clue what you are talking about.  Del City is full of crime whether you want to acknowledge it or not.  Pull your head out of the sand and get a police scanner and then tell me that it is an isolated incident.  It is clear that neither of you have come out of your house on a Friday night between Sunnylane, Bryant, 15th and 29th.  Send me a private message and I will drive you over there and point out my son's drug suppliers.  Some of you may remember the story in this Youtube video.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75LvjD80EKI

This was my son and his friends. Just another event in the miserable five year period that we lived through in that hell hole.  Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Moderator, forgive my anger in this post but I am sick to my stomach with these lofty minded people that have no clue about the world.  If you wish to ban me then by all means, do it.

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## Thunder

> Thunder, you must live on the East side of Sunnylane if you think this is an isolated case.  You must have your head deep in the sand, have your eyes closed.  Corndog, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.  The whole time we lived there we were in debt with medical bills and did not make enough money to move.  This is so typical of liberals to sit their drinking their Starbucks while telling the world about the underprivileged.  It wasn't until a year and a half ago that I got a decent enough job to get above the debt enough to get out of there.  My wife got a second job waitressing so that we could eat using her tips.  Also you have no idea what it is like to have a troubled child that is so stubborn that he is willing to go to jail to prove you wrong.  My son would never stand up to me or his mother but the moment we would walk out the door to go to work, he would run away.
> 
> Every time I would put my foot down, I would come home from work or get a call from Del Crest telling me that he did not show up from school.  I would go home and find a mean letter on the kitchen table.  We would not see him for days.  When I found out where he was, I told a Del City Police that I was going to pick him up and he told me that if I force him to come home against his will that I would be arrested.  When he was 13 he finally admitted that he was taking drugs.  We searched and found a place in Norman that would take him into drug rehab.  We all took off work on that sad day and spend the whole day down there just to be told that they will not take him and that DHS has been called on me because he told them that he was scared of me.
> 
> So corndog, don't take it personally when I completely disregard your statements as total ignorance. If any of you have had a kid that will run away at will in Del City, you will know what I am talking about.  Also I learned a painful lesson about the wonderful Del City parents.  On numerous occasions I would have parents tell me they never saw him just to find him arrested at their home.  Their answer to the question of why they would harbor a runaway would be that he told them that I would beat him up.  I would always tell them that if they suspect that I am abusing him then they have an obligation to report me to the police.  It was a tough five years.  Well now he lived with his girlfriend until Sunday when she kicked him out.  Now he is in the psychiatric ward at Midwest City hospital for attempted suicide.
> 
> Spare me your self righteous B.S. Corndog and Thunder because you have no clue what you are talking about.  Del City is full of crime whether you want to acknowledge it or not.  Pull your head out of the sand and get a police scanner and then tell me that it is an isolated incident.  It is clear that neither of you have come out of your house on a Friday night between Sunnylane, Bryant, 15th and 29th.  Send me a private message and I will drive you over there and point out my son's drug suppliers.  Some of you may remember the story in this Youtube video.  
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75LvjD80EKI
> ...


I live on the west side of Sunnylane in the neighborhood behind MTM.  I have been in Del City since I was about 5 years old and I am 26.  You obviously consider your issues to be widespread, when it is actually not.  Like I said, isolated incidents.  Del City is not the only place to have crimes... Just look at OKC, Midwest City, Choctaw, Edmond, Moore, Norman, and so on.  Just about every town in the state has crime.  Accept it.

As for the DC Police threatening to arrest you for forcing your son to come home... They are in the wrong.  You are his parent and he is underage, so you have rights over your son.

Don't blame Del City for what your son has done.  He made the choices.  

Yes, I do live between Sunnylane / Bryant and 15th / 29th.

Once again, you are in the wrong for attacking me.  I'm not going to judge Del City based on some people here and there.

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## bombermwc

Sorry plm, as much as it pains me to say so, I'm with Thunder on this. The more you tell us about your story, the more I'm not going to blame the city or the schools...i'm going to blame parental involvement. I know people in far worse situations that still maintain a safe and secure lifestyle for their children. If the neighborhood sucks, it's your job as a parent to counter that. I'm not going to say it's not hard work, but it HAS to be done. 

You can't blame the city. The city isn't raising your child. You are. My experience working with high schoolers has shown me something....parents LOVE LOVE LOVE to blame anyone but themselves for their precious little darling's issues. So many parents think their kid "couldn't possibly have done that". Quite often, those are the kids that instigate the issues. I've seen several kids that have such a bad home life that they run away simply to be able to make it and the parents are what hold them back. You know what, those kids are actually some of the best behaved kids because at school, they have someone that believes in and supports them.

You might call it a high horse, i call it reality. Your kid does drugs...you have to accept part of the fault in that situation. The kids isn't fault free, but you aren't either. Don't try and blame the city for lack of supervision.

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## Boron

The members of the Mid-Del School Board need to lose their arrogant  attitude and remember the citizens that voted them in office will have the opportunity vote them out. Their reasons for selling the schools has all been a smoke screen. Property owners in Mid-Del school district are already 40 million dollars in debt in support of the mid-del school system. The school board wanted us parents to approve and additiional 193 million dollar bond issue so they could sell the schools and build some others and we said no because it was too much at once.  So now the school board chose not to honor the decision made by the voters and the board snubbed their noses at us by showing us they could sell the schools anyway without our vote so they could get their hands on some fast cash.  Now there is no approved financing in place to have a classroom for the students of Sooner Rose or Traub. Talk about putting your cart before the horse! The school board needs to come back to reality and seriously scale their plans back to something reasonable. Until then, I say One Hundred Ninety Three million times No.

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## Redskin 70

PLMCDJ...............you wanna gripe about DC going Ghetto, and for that matter MWC also, go right ahead.........just start your own thread............hell I will even chime in as I got some strong thoughts on why it happened, MID DeL sports program  allowing out of district gladiator transfer, cheap housing to g section 8, over whelmed Police depts by  the black gangs............But this thread aint it..............this thread is about the Mid Del School board wanting to tax  us another $191 million dollars on top of their current $40 million dollars for the next thirty years and without a comprehensive and common sense  approx=ch towards it.

I swear , if I didn't know better I would believe they were all on the Potomac acting this stupid..................

To blindly say we must vote this  back breaking debt on ourselves simple because the mantra is for the children is ludicrous.

All 4 of my children went through the Mid Del system and all four are doing very well in  life..............so lets get this topic back on track about school board  waste, extravagance, and arrogance and nothing more

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## Midtowner

> Surprised Midtowner hasn't started calling you all the same names he called me when I said this.
> 
> Glad to see that there's at least one other person out there who can grasp the idea that the school district isn't always benevolent and all-knowing.


I won't disappoint then.  You lack basic comprehension of the issues.  This bond is about more efficiently configuring the district to accommodate population shifts.  It's about replacing old structures, which are expensive to maintain, and energy inefficient, with modern facilities.  It is not about salaries, this has nothing to do with salaries, this has nothing to do with salaries, this has nothing to do with salaries.  

As for plm's post, OU?  The higher ed tuition discussion is a totally different issue.  If you want to bring in some other totally irrelevant things, let's discuss the efficacy and cost of using Tomahawk missiles in Libya.  That's a pretty big waste of money too, and just as relevant to the MWC bond issue.

This is the trouble with MWC.  You have a bunch of curmudgeons who think they have an opinion, but they don't even understand at a very basic level what they are voting for or against.  This same sector of the population is why groups like OKC Momentum sent out mailers showing the most neo-conservative/Christian fundamentalist nutjob on the Council (Brian Walters) being in league with President Obama, and the dummies in his district just lapped it up.    

Education is not a racket.  Being able to think for oneself (which some of the above posts which are just totally wrong on the facts and ability to exclude irrelevant issues display a lack of that ability) is essential to our style of government working.  And if these sorts of opinions are typical of those found in MWC, our system isn't working very well at all.

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## Redskin 70

Now thats the nicest  name calling I have ever endured.............But a crummudgon.............well I hope not

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## bombermwc

In case you guys missed it, the majority did APPROVE the bond issue. For whatever reason, schools have to have a super majority in order for bonds to pass. No one else has that requirement, and I don't think schools should either.

The bond failed by less than 100 votes. In fact, i think it was something like 32...maybe 60 or something small like that. So don't for one second try and tell folks that "the district told the board no", because really it didn't. In fact,quite the opposite...the majority approved it. FYI - the bond is going to re-voted on in the fall. So we'll get to see them whether or not it can pass fully or not. My money is on the side that it will pass with flying colors this time. Remember, it's really just a continuation of bonding. You'r taxes don't go up so whatever moron tells you that is just stupid. That's a millage election issue.

Note to the east side - pull your head out of your rear and get facts before you vote with the beer in your hand. All you are doind by not voting yes right now is giving your kids a chance to have even crappier resources than they already have (and they are already at the bottom of the pile in their class). I'm a product of Mid-Del and went on to OCU and still use my brain to this day. I went to East Side (which would be torn down and replaced with a new school), Jarman, which would be totally closed, and MCHS (which isn't affected at all). And I'm still in favor of the plan...without any of the tired "oh i went there and my grandpappy went there" nonsensical crap.

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## Lauri101

Thank you Midtowner and bombermwc for voicing so eloquently the sentiments I expressed!  Nicely done! :Congrats:

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## Bostonfan

> Thunder, you must live on the East side of Sunnylane if you think this is an isolated case.  You must have your head deep in the sand, have your eyes closed.  Corndog, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.  The whole time we lived there we were in debt with medical bills and did not make enough money to move.  This is so typical of liberals to sit their drinking their Starbucks while telling the world about the underprivileged.  It wasn't until a year and a half ago that I got a decent enough job to get above the debt enough to get out of there.  My wife got a second job waitressing so that we could eat using her tips.  Also you have no idea what it is like to have a troubled child that is so stubborn that he is willing to go to jail to prove you wrong.  My son would never stand up to me or his mother but the moment we would walk out the door to go to work, he would run away.
> 
> Every time I would put my foot down, I would come home from work or get a call from Del Crest telling me that he did not show up from school.  I would go home and find a mean letter on the kitchen table.  We would not see him for days.  When I found out where he was, I told a Del City Police that I was going to pick him up and he told me that if I force him to come home against his will that I would be arrested.  When he was 13 he finally admitted that he was taking drugs.  We searched and found a place in Norman that would take him into drug rehab.  We all took off work on that sad day and spend the whole day down there just to be told that they will not take him and that DHS has been called on me because he told them that he was scared of me.
> 
> So corndog, don't take it personally when I completely disregard your statements as total ignorance. If any of you have had a kid that will run away at will in Del City, you will know what I am talking about.  Also I learned a painful lesson about the wonderful Del City parents.  On numerous occasions I would have parents tell me they never saw him just to find him arrested at their home.  Their answer to the question of why they would harbor a runaway would be that he told them that I would beat him up.  I would always tell them that if they suspect that I am abusing him then they have an obligation to report me to the police.  It was a tough five years.  Well now he lived with his girlfriend until Sunday when she kicked him out.  Now he is in the psychiatric ward at Midwest City hospital for attempted suicide.
> 
> Spare me your self righteous B.S. Corndog and Thunder because you have no clue what you are talking about.  Del City is full of crime whether you want to acknowledge it or not.  Pull your head out of the sand and get a police scanner and then tell me that it is an isolated incident.  It is clear that neither of you have come out of your house on a Friday night between Sunnylane, Bryant, 15th and 29th.  Send me a private message and I will drive you over there and point out my son's drug suppliers.  Some of you may remember the story in this Youtube video.  
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75LvjD80EKI
> ...


Please clarify......  your son and his friends are the one's who desecrated American flags and you are blaming the city and Del Crest?

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## easternobserver

Lets talk about Del City crime for a minute.  The comment was made before that the crime happens west of Sunnylane.  If the school board gets its way, Highland Park school will close, and those kids will go to Townsend.  Highland Park currently serves a neighborhood that might be about the crappiest in Oklahoma City.  At least Del City is trying to clean up its areas west of Sunnylane --- OKC doesnt have the resources to care about that area, so the houses get crappier and the gangs run wild (in fact, a lot of apartments served by that school are owned by that same california jerk as the crime ridden burned out messes that Del City had to bulldoze) -- I'm sure he just moved the tenants to those places.  With grade school kids it might not be that big a deal.  What happens when the middle schools start mixing.  Established gang lines get moved, kids wearing different colors suddenly are in the same place all day......hope there is money in that bond issue for metal detectors and kevlar vests for the teachers.

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## Redskin 70

my comprehension skills are very good thank you.  I understand very well the school board wants to shut down the schools  that are the oldest because they are the greatest drain on the system.  I understand its not about saleries, and I understand  its about $191 million dollars on top of the 40 million currently in place so ..............and I uderstand thats a lot of money to be asking for all at once.
My kids went to Kerr and frankly they nor I   have a real problem with removal of that school so the emotional issue is resolved.

Ithink they (the school board) have grandly and arrogantly over stepped their authority and it is they who are the morans.

Explain why you think disliking an extra $191 million   dollar debt, on top of $40 million in current is a bad thing.?

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## bombermwc

Why? Because that's how schools operate. And you aren't going to be responsible for paying any more than you do today. The 6 months that will go between the bond votes will also mean more of the previous bond is paid off. A district is only able to have X dollars bonded out at one time. So if you think they are doing something illegal or whatever, they call the state auditors office. But in case you missed it, Superintendent Scoggins disclosed the figures in person, on a video online, in flyers, etc. It's not as though some big conspiracy is going on here. 

Plus a $40 million debt isn't that great. Did you know that the disctrict operates annually on about twice that amount? And that the 40 million is paid off over many years? And that the bond debt is paid for by property taxes you vote on in millage elections? So as they pay for their bond debt, it only comes out of that tax money, not normaly operating budgets? Or that a large bond issue isn't even sold until the previous one is paid? That's why a project like this is set to start AFTER the previous bond expires. So I'd like to know what your source of information is, because it seems as though you might have been fed false information.

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