# Civic Matters > Ask Anything About OKC >  Rerouting Oklahoma Avenue at U-haul/Boulevard

## Finn

I belatedly heard the city has dropped its plans to acquire U-hauls parking lot (in order to extend Oklahoma Ave directly to the new boulevard), and instead has drawn up plans to reroute it again. Currently Oklahoma Ave hugs the west side of the building. Is this correct? Is the city planning to reroute it again? If so, is it to the east or the west of the U-haul building? Are there written plans? Timeline?Thanks!

----------


## Pete

Yes, the city dropped its eminent domain suit to forcibly take the property just to the east of the Uhaul building in order to properly connect Oklahoma Ave. from Reno to the new intersection at the OKC Boulevard.

Currently, there is a temporary solution that bends around the Uhaul building but to the east on the right of way of old Compress Avenue.

I believe the current plan is actually to move the intersection on the Bouelvard one block to the west where it will align with Compress and then angle into the Oklahoma intersection at Reno.

And yes, that would mean tearing out the just-built intersection on the boulevard and putting in a new one.

None of this is set but I believe talks are well underway with Randy Hogan who owns the right-of-way needed on the west side of U-haul.

----------


## David

Geeze. If the solution to the current bad arrangement is just a different _slightly_ less bad arrangement let's just leave it how it is and not spend the money.

----------


## Pete

This has been a cluster on so many levels.

There WAS an intersection at Compress that was taken out after the city directed ODOT to put the new intersection where it is.

And of course, why on earth did the city wait until now -- years and years after all this was decided -- to try and lock down the needed property?  I know they talked to U-haul earlier but also knew this was going to be contenscious so why not work things to conclusion way back when?

Worst of all, this will now place the one and only means of ingress and egress to the very important Lumberyard and Coop properties at their almost far west end, very near the railroad tracks.  I can just hear them now:  "We need millions in incentives from the city due to poor access".

----------


## Sooner.Arch

Gosh, I still am dreaming that the U-Haul building goes under renovation to transfer into apartments or another hotel similar to 21C. That’s my dream haha. The Itens biscuit building has too much potential! Someone save that beauty!

----------


## PaddyShack

Does U-Haul use the upper floors for anything, if so in what ways do they use them?

----------


## Ginkasa

> Does U-Haul use the upper floors for anything, if so in what ways do they use them?


Its all a bunch of rentable storage rooms, I believe.

----------


## LordGerald

> Does U-Haul use the upper floors for anything, if so in what ways do they use them?


It is an active storage facility. My former workplace has a large space, and every time I was there, people were utilizing the building to access storage.

----------


## Pete

I think that Uhaul storage facility is quite active and relatively full, which is why they are so protective of it.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^
Yep.

----------


## rezman

^^^ Not only that but U-Haul spend big bucks on renovating that building at the behest of the  City, so I don’t blame them for holding their position... Good for U-Haul!.

----------


## Finn

Thanks for the info. Moving the intersection to the west sure seems to make for a complicated intersection with lights, train underpass, then immediately more lights.

----------


## HangryHippo

> Thanks for the info. Moving the intersection to the west sure seems to make for a complicated intersection with lights, train underpass, then immediately more lights.


The Oklahoma standard.  lol.  Lights followed by more lights followed by more lights.

----------


## SEMIweather

> The Oklahoma standard.  lol.  Lights followed by more lights followed by more lights.


See also: Western between NW 50th and Avondale.

----------


## Pete

Here is a guess at how this all will shake out:

----------


## Finn

Great photos. I was trying to picture what it used to look like. 

My guess, based on Petes info above, they will use the hypotenuse of your upper green and yellow segments.

----------


## Pete

My understanding is the decision has been made to relocate the intersection at Oklahoma Avenue to what was originally Compress Avenue (they yellow lines in the graphic above).

I believe the entire intersection will be moved at the city's expense, as ODOT placed it at the Oklahoma Ave. location at the due to instructions by the city.

It seems all efforts to pay U-Haul are now off and the drive will go on the east side of that structure, rather than the west where it was to go through and align with Oklahoma.


What this also means is the only real ingress and egrees out of the Lumberyard and old Coop will be at the far west end, almost at the western border of both properties.

Access to the properties is also provided by S. 4th and S. 7th streets.  The former crosses Shields and goes under the RR tracks; the latter under both.

It also means there will be two lights quite close together; one on each side of the railroad overpass.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> It also means there will be two lights quite close together; one on each side of the railroad overpass.


This would be of no issue if the lights are synchronized. 

That said, this whole thing is awful and seems to imply the people at the uHaul facility give not two sh!ts about the community. They could work with the city, redevelop the historic building into something more deserving than a storage facility with metal covering a beautiful facade, and develop the lot into structured parking with urban storage which is common in many major cities. So frustrating. :/

It's hard to have compassion for these guys when they are smack dab in the middle of a new major recently built Boulevard and streetcar line, a stones throw away from a potentially billion dollar development to the south, next door to a future bus hub/parking garage for a major passenger rail station that is soon to be home to commuter rail and an extended national passenger rail line not to mention possibly light and HS rail, and yet they want to stick to the status quo keeping their heads in the sand and being reactive and not proactive.

----------


## Pete

U-Haul would have had to relocate their entrance from the east to west side, thus triggering a lot or related and very expensive work.  Remember, this is a very old building underneath that cladding.

The city was unwilling to pay them for that and backed out before the independent commissioners placed a fair market value, as they knew U-Haul was likely to get their way and once there is a ruling, the parties are obligated.

The owners of U-Haul are not the villians here.  The city should have figured this out before they had ODOT build that intersection.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

I didn’t say they were the villains, but they aren’t saints either and common sense would say to extend the road reconnecting the grid straight instead of having a disjointed layout. 

As I said, there are many options to be had such as relocation and renovating the building into something like apartments or offices and building a new structure in the parking lot which could double as storage and structured parking. That could be an added bonus for any potenial client or inhabitant of the renovated existing building.

----------


## Pete

Like everyone else, they are entitled to fair payment when the gov wants to take their property.

In the end, the city wasn't willing to pay the amount determined by independent assessors appointed by the court.

----------


## Ross MacLochness

#maps4movingtrucks

----------


## OKC Guy

> This would be of no issue if the lights are synchronized. 
> 
> That said, this whole thing is awful and seems to imply the people at the uHaul facility give not two sh!ts about the community. They could work with the city, redevelop the historic building into something more deserving than a storage facility with metal covering a beautiful facade, and develop the lot into structured parking with urban storage which is common in many major cities. So frustrating. :/
> 
> It's hard to have compassion for these guys when they are smack dab in the middle of a new major recently built Boulevard and streetcar line, a stones throw away from a potentially billion dollar development to the south, next door to a future bus hub/parking garage for a major passenger rail station that is soon to be home to commuter rail and an extended national passenger rail line not to mention possibly light and HS rail, and yet they want to stick to the status quo keeping their heads in the sand and being reactive and not proactive.


This type mentality is why the out of downtown public is starting to seperate away from downtown thinkers.

You blame owners who were there even before Maps1.  How in the flip is it their fault?  

Wow!

Same as your comment about car parking along SC route - you want all street parking eliminated with no concern or thought or study to businesses along route.

Same as comments here about new Penn development when I brought up how some home owners might not like the massive buildings and need made whole if they want to move.  

It seems some just don’t care about existing businesses or homes - its all in the way of progress - until they want “your” home or business then its the evil government.

UHaul was there first and all building (roads and streets) were planned knowing this.  Looks like planners are at fault here so stop blaming the business owners.  Thats not fair to them.  OKC messed this up not UHaul

----------


## OKCRT

The city should just go ahead and buy Uhaul out now. They deserve to be paid and that place is standing in the way of development. Pony up and pay them before spending even more redoing stuff already paid for.

----------


## jn1780

As silly as it is to rebuild, it is still far more cheaper to do this then buyout Uhaul.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> The city should just go ahead and buy Uhaul out now. They deserve to be paid and that place is standing in the way of development. Pony up and pay them before spending even more redoing stuff already paid for.


how do the "deserve" to be paid

----------


## OKCRT

> how do the "deserve" to be paid


They deserve to be paid a fair price for their property. Then they should move out and let the proper development progress. I didn't say they should be overpaid. It appears that fair market price is not what the city wants to pay so they are going with a mickey mouse reroute instead.

----------


## shawnw

For being early adopters? Reading the tea leaves? Like the first few folks that took chances on Classen Ten Penn? If nothing else for preserving the building all these years, even if not out of historical preservationist altruism?

I'm definitely on the side of U-Haul being out and that building getting restored to its historical luster, along with a through Oklahoma Avenue, but I definitely don't want to trample on property rights either, because, as stated, that can bite me later.

If UHaul didn't buy this building when they did, there's a decent chance it doesn't still exist today. So, it seems not entirely  unfair to assign some degree of deservedness when it comes to this property.

----------


## rezman

When Bricktown was coming up, U-haul spent big bucks on their building at the City's behest. So why should they cave in and move. More power to U-haul… Good for them.

----------


## OKCRT

> When Bricktown was coming up, U-haul spent big bucks on their building at the City's behest. So why should they cave in and move. More power to U-haul… Good for them.


I might be wrong but I thought they were willing to move and just wanted to be paid fair market value.

----------


## Rover

Just let them be and drive around it. Stop with the fussing.  They wanted more than the city could/would pay.  So be it.  Dont punish them, dont help them. Just let them be.

----------


## Rover

> When Bricktown was coming up, U-haul spent big bucks on their building at the City's behest. So why should they cave in and move. More power to U-haul… Good for them.


What did they do?

----------


## David

I wish the city would just sit on this for a few years without moving the intersection to see what happens. If and when U-haul sells the building for redevelopment we may suddenly be in a situation where they don't need the parking lot any more and Oklahoma Avenue can just go straight on through, at which point moving the intersection further west is going to have been a complete waste of money. Particularly since whatever development happens on the south side of the boulevard may fix the intersection in place on that side.

----------


## gopokes88

> Like everyone else, they are entitled to fair payment when the gov wants to take their property.
> 
> In the end, the city wasn't willing to pay the amount determined by independent assessors appointed by the court.


When they assess value is it purely just property value or do they take things like business interruption into account? Like if uhaul made less money as a result of the change, is that factored in?

----------


## Pete

> When they assess value is it purely just property value or do they take things like business interruption into account? Like if uhaul made less money as a result of the change, is that factored in?


I don't think they go that far but they definitely take into account improvements/changes that would be triggered by forcibly taking the property.

In the case of U-Haul, it would involve completely relocating their entry from the east to west side and a bunch of other things.  That's why the valuation was going to be so high and why the city backed out before they were obligated to pay the amount determinted by the independent commissioners.

----------


## rezman

> What did they do?


Remember when it was just an old tan painted building?. They spent almost $200k updating the building’s exterior in an effort to blend in with the surrounding  new construction of Bricktown.

----------


## Rover

> Remember when it was just an old tan painted building?. They spent almost $200k updating the buildings exterior in an effort to blend in with the surrounding  new construction of Bricktown.


Wait... that ugly cladding over the old brick building was done to fit in in Bricktown? Nice try. Theres a great old building under there that they have made no effort to expose, rehab and enhance the look in Bricktown.  All the public money spent on Bricktown has increased their property value exponentially with no help from them.  Hard to feel sorry for them. But its their right to take advantage of it.

----------


## Buffalo Bill

> Remember when it was just an old tan painted building?. They spent almost $200k updating the building’s exterior in an effort to blend in with the surrounding  new construction of Bricktown.


Oooh, and it looks so good now.  Money well spent. : :Big Grin:

----------


## rezman

> Wait... that ugly cladding over the old brick building was done to fit in in Bricktown? Nice try. There’s a great old building under there that they have made no effort to expose, rehab and enhance the look in Bricktown.  All the public money spent on Bricktown has increased their property value exponentially with no help from them.  Hard to feel sorry for them. But it’s their right to take advantage of it.


I’d love to see it restored to original, but like it or not. That’s what happened.

----------


## T. Jamison

> When they assess value is it purely just property value or do they take things like business interruption into account? Like if uhaul made less money as a result of the change, is that factored in?


I know if the taking requires tenants to move, the City has to pay relocation costs. So if they had to close for reconfiguration, the City would have to pay to move everyone's items to a new facility.

----------


## Rover

> I’d love to see it restored to original, but like it or not. That’s what happened.


Thats the point.  They arent interested in improving the value of or enhancing the neighborhood.  They dont have to be good citizens or altruistic.  They are allowed to sit back and see their building increase in value because of all the public money spent making the whole neighborhood more valuable.  It is their right.

----------


## rezman

Exactly. They bought the building back in the mid 70's during a time when no one wanted it, and given the record this city has for tearing down old buildings, U-Haul likely saved it from the wrecking ball in the process. Could they have picked a better design  in their make over?. Sure, but looks are in the eye of the beholder and  have nothing to do with their rights to retain their property. I'm sure what you see now is about what they could do for the money at the time, which  would accomplish even less today. And nobody was raising hell back when they did it.  A restoration back to even close to original would have cost far more than $200k.   It wasn't until property around U-haul started to become highly valuable did people  become so interested in their property. So again, more power to them.

----------


## Rover

> Exactly. They bought the building back in the mid 70's during a time when no one wanted it, and given the record this city has for tearing down old buildings, U-Haul likely saved it from the wrecking ball in the process. Could they have picked a better design  in their make over?. Sure, but looks are in the eye of the beholder and  have nothing to do with their rights to retain their property. I'm sure what you see now is about what they could do for the money at the time, which  would accomplish even less today. And nobody was raising hell back when they did it.  A restoration back to even close to original would have cost far more than $200k.   It wasn't until property around U-haul started to become highly valuable did people  become so interested in their property. So again, more power to them.


Ah yes, the it could have been worse spin. I dont believe they bought the building to save it.  It was a bargain 

It is owned by a out of state Llc (Phoenix) affiliated with UHaul International, bought in 2001. This is 8 years after Maps 1 passed.  They didnt help create the value in the neighborhood and arent enhancing it now. But they sure are able to take advantage of the neighborhood value built on the back of Maps.

----------


## Pete



----------


## jn1780

Did they forget the pedestrian ramp on the north side of the road? You would expect it to line up with the dedicated pedestrian route in the median. I guess they already tore up some perfectly good curbs once, might as well do it a second time.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

They really should have made that an interchange. It would be better for pedestrians and no buildings will have direct access to this road so I don't understand the logic behind this.

----------


## jn1780

> Did they forget the pedestrian ramp on the north side of the road? You would expect it to line up with the dedicated pedestrian route in the median. I guess they already tore up some perfectly good curbs once, might as well do it a second time.


I stand corrected on this. The curb is level with the road where the walkway ramp is going. Their just not done yet

----------


## jompster

> They really should have made that an interchange. It would be better for pedestrians and no buildings will have direct access to this road so I don't understand the logic behind this.


It will be once they move the traffic signal.

----------


## SEMIweather

Honestly at this point, why not just make both options available and synchronize the traffic lights.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> It will be once they move the traffic signal.


It is my understanding that Oklahoma Ave. will be shifted so the buildings won't have direct access to the OKC Boulevard, they will have access via Oklahoma Ave.

----------


## Scott5114

> They really should have made that an interchange. It would be better for pedestrians and no buildings will have direct access to this road so I don't understand the logic behind this.


I don't think the traffic counts would warrant that, and there's probably no way to fit in the ramps and approach needed to reach a 16' bridge clearance since you have the railroad 300 feet to the west. Plus, you'd have to take ROW for the ramps and approach from the same properties the city deemed too expensive to take for connecting Oklahoma straight through.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> I don't think the traffic counts would warrant that, and there's probably no way to fit in the ramps and approach needed to reach a 16' bridge clearance since you have the railroad 300 feet to the west. Plus, you'd have to take ROW for the ramps and approach from the same properties the city deemed too expensive to take for connecting Oklahoma straight through.


You are probably right. I was thinking more when the COOP site was developed but even then I wonder how much traffic that would generate.

----------


## Pete



----------


## jompster

> It is my understanding that Oklahoma Ave. will be shifted so the buildings won't have direct access to the OKC Boulevard, they will have access via Oklahoma Ave.


Yes, correct.  Oklahoma Ave. traffic will route around to the new intersection (Compress Ave.) and the light will be there.  Maybe I was misunderstanding what you meant... you're talking about the business access through the old intersection.

----------


## Pete



----------


## catch22

The city of okc is frugal to a fault. They'll end up spending 3x later to fix this travesty. But they saved $12 today. Fantastic. 

Obviously I am not advocating for reckless spending, but in certain high profile areas - such as this - you just pay to do it right from the beginning. So what if Uhaul is being stiff, just do it right. In fact, doing it right would fix a mistake that was created years ago by disrupting the grid with the Uhaul parking lot.

----------


## Pete



----------


## Anonymous.

Wow, did not expect them to demolish the first one. This whole thing is a microcosm for things OKC.

----------


## HangryHippo

> This whole thing is a microcosm for things OKC.


To a t.

----------


## mattbrafford



----------


## SEMIweather

I'm very amused by the crosswalk to nowhere.

----------


## TheTravellers

> I'm very amused by the crosswalk to nowhere.


They'll probably scrape that one off and put one in at the new intersection, but it'll be peeling off in 5 years.

----------


## HangryHippo

> They'll probably scrape that one off and put one in at the new intersection, but it'll be peeling off in 5 years.


That's funny - based on P180/90/45/22-ish, it won't take nearly that long!

----------


## JDSooners

Is the valet service gonna get its parking spaces back, or is there no longer a need for valet?,

----------


## David

I'm wondering where the lower Bricktown parking management people that are occasionally managing parking access at that entrance are planning on having their people stand. They used to do it right at the entrance to the Harkins adjacent lot, but I don't see that working as well anymore.

----------


## Pete

So, the relocated traffic light is working but there are cones up and I saw several people just driving around them.

----------


## rte66man

Just realized there isn't a left turn bay for EB traffic. Wonder why they didn't install one.

----------


## David

> Just realized there isn't a left turn bay for EB traffic. Wonder why they didn't install one.


Why build it right the third time?

----------


## Anonymous.

> Just realized there isn't a left turn bay for EB traffic. Wonder why they didn't install one.


Not only that. There is the old school Yield left on green signal in that spot. And the Yield left turn going westbound (to nowhere right now) is the newer, flashing yellow arrow signal.

Classic.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

There are no turn lanes period. Wtf.

----------


## Pete

This intersection is now open:

----------


## Richard at Remax

I used it the other day. Def flows a lot better. However, if those people stand right inside the turn to collect money for people parking at the theater I'm gonna lose it.

----------

