# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Norman >  "Don't Edmond my Norman"?

## HVAC Instructor

OK, Normanites, what does it mean to "Edmond my Norman"? 

I work in Norman, Live in OKC (Edmond School District) and my kids go to Edmond schools, so I see a reasonable amount of each city. 

So what's this phrase all about?

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## RedDirt717

Purists want to keep Norman interesting and eclectic with culture and activities.

I grew up in Edmond, live in Edmond now and graduated from OU. 

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Edmond is the most boring town I've ever been in. Even in smaller towns you can go set off fire works and shoot a gun in your backyard, can't do that here.


There are like, 3 bars and the most popular bars among the three are chains with no character. Traffic sucks, you've got cookie cutter strip malls with the usual suspects running business. I mean one of the only place in Edmond you can get a burger that's not a chain product is Flat Tire Burger. If you so much as yawn while driving it's reason to get pulled over and given a damned near cavity search. You can't see live music in Edmond unless it's in a friends garage, and even then you'll probably get a noise citation. 


Norman has better food, better music, a better university, better entertainment, a younger more energetic population, deeper cultural roots, a decent sized mall, better arts, better museums, better walkability, better public transit, and less country club douche bags.

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## HVAC Instructor

> Purists want to keep Norman interesting and eclectic with culture and activities.
> 
> I grew up in Edmond, live in Edmond now and graduated from OU. 
> 
> I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Edmond is the most boring town I've ever been in. Even in smaller towns you can go set off fire works and shoot a gun in your backyard, can't do that here.
> 
> 
> There are like, 3 bars and the most popular bars among the three are chains with no character. Traffic sucks, you've got cookie cutter strip malls with the usual suspects running business. I mean one of the only place in Edmond you can get a burger that's not a chain product is Flat Tire Burger. If you so much as yawn while driving it's reason to get pulled over and given a damned near cavity search. You can't see live music in Edmond unless it's in a friends garage, and even then you'll probably get a noise citation. 
> 
> ...


OK. I agree with all that, except to say the traffic in Norman sucks waaaaaay worse than in Edmond. Probably because Norman is bigger and more populated, but you spend far more time sitting at traffic lights in Norman than you actually do driving. 

I first visited Norman in 1988 and it was easy and fast driving across town. Now? Gawd what a nightmare! And I think the cops in both town's are wankers...Edmond has no corner on that yet that I can see.

Oh, and there are some snotty douche bag country club types in Norman too, LOL! 

But, this still does not explain "Don't Edmond my Norman" to me. I mean, there is no possibility that Norman will close down all it's good establishment's in favor of the fast food and crap typical in Edmomd. (Edmond desperatly needs better restaurants). So, what else is it? Are you guys concerned about local ordinances? What? 

Norman does seem to be turning into a tract-home bedroom community in many neighborhoods...Is that what ya'll are talking about?

Who actually lives in Norman and can explain this from a residents point of view?

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## gen70

> Purists want to keep Norman interesting and eclectic with culture and activities.
> 
> I grew up in Edmond, live in Edmond now and graduated from OU. 
> 
> I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Edmond is the most boring town I've ever been in. Even in smaller towns you can go set off fire works and shoot a gun in your backyard, can't do that here.
> 
> 
> There are like, 3 bars and the most popular bars among the three are chains with no character. Traffic sucks, you've got cookie cutter strip malls with the usual suspects running business. I mean one of the only place in Edmond you can get a burger that's not a chain product is Flat Tire Burger. If you so much as yawn while driving it's reason to get pulled over and given a damned near cavity search. You can't see live music in Edmond unless it's in a friends garage, and even then you'll probably get a noise citation. 
> 
> ...


 Don't hold back Dirt, tell us how you really feel. HaHa

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## rcjunkie

I think one thing they mean is that Norman is much more receptive to people with different life styles, back grounds, ethnic, religion, etc; than Edmond. 
From a personal experience, Edmond has always had a "Not in my Backyard" mentality

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## blangtang

i have one of those bumper stickers laying around the house somewhere, maybe I'll go stick it on the back of a stop sign.  the only place distributing the bumper stickers was the Earth, and they only made a batch of so many.  The Earth is the little food and vitamin shop on Flood, near downtown and the campus. They also sell stuff like wheat grass shots and ear candles.  The group that printed them up was playin on the 'Keep Austin Weird' slogan, and it was also around the time that the big new University Strip Mall TIF debate was goin on.  I think the slogan can mean what ever one wants it to mean.

HVAC-did u see a bumper sticker or something?

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## RealJimbo

I haven't a clue.  I have lived in Edmond a total of about 39 years and this doesn't make sense to me.  In that time it has gone from a sleepy town to a booming bedroom community with a pretty good amount of its own industry.  The traffic IS unbearable.  Just try to get through the town during rush hour (especially if you have to pass through the 2nd and Bryant intersection).  But I also agree that Norman is even worse in this respect.  Is it maybe about keeping a respectable downtown?  Edmond's downtown keeps getting harder to shop in with the "keep Edmond beautiful" element taking parking spaces for trees and such.

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## Martin

this was discussed here a while back.

-M

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## smooth

> OK, Normanites, what does it mean to "Edmond my Norman"? 
> 
> I work in Norman, Live in OKC (Edmond School District) and my kids go to Edmond schools, so I see a reasonable amount of each city. 
> 
> So what's this phrase all about?




 :Dizzy:  :Dontgetit:

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## kevinpate

I was thinking of responding but sheesh, folks pretty much already got it covered. 

I don't really notice the Norman traffic often, but then, when you hang somewhere for 2+ decades, you adapt and you tend to traverse town when others don't.  I don't tend to get stuck sitting in Norman as a result.  one notable exception is when the longer trains gets all hinky sharing the switch on the north side and play the how slow can we go game.  That still stacks it up deep.

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## HVAC Instructor

> i have one of those bumper stickers laying around the house somewhere, maybe I'll go stick it on the back of a stop sign.  the only place distributing the bumper stickers was the Earth, and they only made a batch of so many.  The Earth is the little food and vitamin shop on Flood, near downtown and the campus. They also sell stuff like wheat grass shots and ear candles.  The group that printed them up was playin on the 'Keep Austin Weird' slogan, and it was also around the time that the big new University Strip Mall TIF debate was goin on.  I think the slogan can mean what ever one wants it to mean.
> 
> HVAC-did u see a bumper sticker or something?


Now we are getting somewhere! 

No, did not see a bumper sticker, but was told about them by a Normanite at work. 

I think it's just a perception. Norman is a big university town. Edmond is a bedroom suburb. Very different from each other. Edmond does have UCO, but UCO ain't OU by any stretch of the imagination. 

I think you just answered my question unless there is something else I don't know that somone wants to add?

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## kevinpate

> this was discussed here a while back.
> 
> -M


HVAC, see post #3 under the link if you haven't yet. Old editorial from Norman paper reprinted there.

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## Bunty

lol, This passage from that Norman editorial also sounded like Stillwater:

"The concern that led to the "Don't Edmond my Norman" campaign was what the message posters saw as an ominous trend. University alcohol policies, the town's nuisance house ordinance, burgeoning Stepford-home developments and increasing traffic snarls were named by some who believe Norman is on a slippery slide downhill."

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## shane453

It has a lot to do with being against suburban tract housing, not letting Norman become exclusively a bedroom community, keeping the buy-local mentality, the economically and culturally diverse population, etc.

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## HVAC Instructor

> It has a lot to do with being against suburban tract housing, not letting Norman become exclusively a bedroom community, keeping the buy-local mentality, the economically and culturally diverse population, etc.


I took the long way home from my PO box at Sooner Station today, up 36th street. I passed mile after mile after mile of tract housing all the way to Moore. Looks to me like Norman became a bedroom community a loooooong time ago. But that said, it's a long way from being anything like Edmond. It's a lot bigger and a lot more diverse. 

Yah, I think it's much ado about nothing. Norman is Norman. Cool town. I like it! Edmond is a quiet bedroom community. I like it too! 

I think I got it figured out now.

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## kwash

lol i guess i agree, edmond is a bit more lame than norman, but lets not get it twisted norman is not hoping with liberals and weirdos walking down the street either. To call norman more liberal is like saying tulsa or okc is more liberal than the other lol. Traffic is bad in both towns. Edmond does have uco and uco is getting huge, its only a few thousand students from surpassing okstate and in 10 yrs it will be neck and neck with ou main campus population, i hope uco continues to grow because edmond is gonna be forced to maybe loosen up. But last i checked norman is not rockin and rollin like crazy past 2am, and you better believe if you anywhere near campus corner aroud midnight you getting pulled over in norman too.

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## Bunty

Where is Oklahoma rockin and rollin like crazy past 2am?

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## nik4411

my place

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## adaniel

Haha! I'll keep note of that nik4411!

I lived in Norman until 5 months ago as a student at OU. I can see the concern that some long time residents have of their town. In just five years, I saw the town explode, but it was all west of 24th Street West. Everything built east of there was exclusive to the university. While I'm all for the focus to be on old Norman, there is no room to build anything in the core part of the city. The truth is even if there was it would be hard to do anything because of the intense anti-development attitudes some people have. Plus, any complaints about Norman morphing into a bedroom community are about 25 years too late. When I-35 was built Norman's fate was all but sealed the same way Edmond's was when the Broadway Extension was completed. 

To the OP, Yikes! You live in North OKC/Edmond and work in Norman? What is that, about 30-35 miles one way? I would have hated to see how much you paid for gasoline last summer.

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## kevinpate

> ... To the OP, Yikes! You live in North OKC/Edmond and work in Norman? What is that, about 30-35 miles one way? I would have hated to see how much you paid for gasoline last summer.


A while back I was with the state and based in Norman.  Last agency director I served under lived in Edmond, and drove an economical car.  If memory serves, he was also based in Tulsa, but given the way his hybrid worked, he probably spent no more, and perhaps less, on gas than I did, with me in Norman full-time.  But I happen to like my tanks so I continue to drive them still today, well, not the one that blew up.  Some lot in the SW OKC area bought it at auction.  Guess they saw more potential than I did for that explosion on 4 wheels.

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## OklahomaNick

I was told that in the beginning that citizens of Fox Lake in Edmond organized a campaign called “Don’t Normanize my Edmond” because they were fighting the Wal-Mart coming in on 15th and I-35 and they wanted to preserve the beauty of trees or some crap like that. They also did not want development to “touch” the highway like it does in Norman, so Edmond enforced even stricter landscaping city codes on Wal-Mart making them landscape something like 20 to 25% of the property??

The “Don’t Norman my Edmond” was a direct retaliation from Norman residents that were just essentially firing back at the Edmond persona. Norman is a college town. Edmond does NOT want to be a college town, but to tell you the truth, Edmond does not have much of a choice with how fast UCO is growing. Will Edmond ever be Norman? No. Will Norman ever be Edmond? No. Two totally different communities.

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## veritas

Norman needs to get over itself.  As a Norman resident (who grew up in Edmond) I think another poster hit the nail on the head when he said that Norman fate has been sealed for a while now.  Norman has 100k(+) people not including the seasonal University student population.   The days of Norman returning to some small town utopia are long gone.

I for one hope Norman embraces the change continuing to head its way if for nothing less then the tax revenue the school system desperately needs.  I saw a figure that showed tax revenue collections for Edmond and Norman as even in the mid 90's (high $500 million) for both towns and, by 2005, Edmond had doubled that amount while Norman had stayed almost unchanged.   I can't tell you how many national retail stores I have heard stories from saying that Norman is the most difficult town they have every tried to do business in. 

University North Park is a step in the right direction but I know that it took several people bleeding a gallon of blood to make that happen.   Sure Norman needs to recognize its uniqueness.  But I hope the warm and fuzzies that many feel the need to wrap themselves in don't get in the way of what is economically good for the rest of Norman.

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## ljbab728

I for one hope Norman embraces the change continuing to head its way if for nothing less then the tax revenue the school system desperately needs.  I saw a figure that showed tax revenue collections for Edmond and Norman as even in the mid 90's (high $500 million) for both towns and, by 2005, Edmond had doubled that amount while Norman had stayed almost unchanged.   I can't tell you how many national retail stores I have heard stories from saying that Norman is the most difficult town they have every tried to do business in. 

October sales tax figures show about 4.5 million for Norman and about 3.5 million for Edmond.  I don't think that backs up your figures.

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## blangtang

> I for one hope Norman embraces the change continuing to head its way if for nothing less then the tax revenue the school system desperately needs.  I saw a figure that showed tax revenue collections for Edmond and Norman as even in the mid 90's (high $500 million) for both towns and, by 2005, Edmond had doubled that amount while Norman had stayed almost unchanged.   I can't tell you how many national retail stores I have heard stories from saying that Norman is the most difficult town they have every tried to do business in. 
> 
> October sales tax figures show about 4.5 million for Norman and about 3.5 million for Edmond.  I don't think that backs up your figures.


Facts aren't important in opinion pieces.  :Poke:

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## decepticobra

> OK, Normanites, what does it mean to "Edmond my Norman"? 
> 
> I work in Norman, Live in OKC (Edmond School District) and my kids go to Edmond schools, so I see a reasonable amount of each city. 
> 
> So what's this phrase all about?


well, i think it implies that all edmonites care about is their affluent lifestyle and their home property values. 

that being said, there are many ordinances in place that fosters this type of lifestyle with strict regiment. so much control, that some who arent acclimated to it can percieve it as hindering a carefree lifestyle. 

for comparison, id love to see a side-by-side chart listing a myriad of each cities active ordinances to see if norman or edmond has the higher tally.

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## adaniel

> I for one hope Norman embraces the change continuing to head its way if for nothing less then the tax revenue the school system desperately needs.  I saw a figure that showed tax revenue collections for Edmond and Norman as even in the mid 90's (high $500 million) for both towns and, by 2005, Edmond had doubled that amount while Norman had stayed almost unchanged.   I can't tell you how many national retail stores I have heard stories from saying that Norman is the most difficult town they have every tried to do business in. 
> 
> October sales tax figures show about 4.5 million for Norman and about 3.5 million for Edmond.  I don't think that backs up your figures.


I think thats in reference to the property tax base, in which most schools derive their revenue from.

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## HVAC Instructor

> well, i think it implies that all edmonites care about is their affluent lifestyle and their home property values. 
> 
> that being said, there are many ordinances in place that fosters this type of lifestyle with strict regiment. so much control, that some who arent acclimated to it can percieve it as hindering a carefree lifestyle. 
> 
> for comparison, id love to see a side-by-side chart listing a myriad of each cities active ordinances to see if norman or edmond has the higher tally.


Since I'm in Norman 5 days a week, I find this an interesting observation. One thing I have noticed about both cities is the propensity to build house right next to each other with nearly no yard at all. It's almost like apartment living the homes are packed so tight together. I reckong you'd have to have ordnances out the ears when you are so close you can hear your neighbor snore......

In a lot of ways, they are so much alike it's comical.....

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## ljbab728

> I think thats in reference to the property tax base, in which most schools derive their revenue from.


In that case I would like to see something more official to back that up.  It's inconceivable that with the explosive commercial and residential growth Norman has seen in the last fifthteen year that property taxes have stayed unchanged.

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## brian

> Norman needs to get over itself.  As a Norman resident (who grew up in Edmond) I think another poster hit the nail on the head when he said that Norman fate has been sealed for a while now.  Norman has 100k(+) people not including the seasonal University student population.   The days of Norman returning to some small town utopia are long gone.
> 
> I for one hope Norman embraces the change continuing to head its way if for nothing less then the tax revenue the school system desperately needs.  I saw a figure that showed tax revenue collections for Edmond and Norman as even in the mid 90's (high $500 million) for both towns and, by 2005, Edmond had doubled that amount while Norman had stayed almost unchanged.   I can't tell you how many national retail stores I have heard stories from saying that Norman is the most difficult town they have every tried to do business in. 
> 
> University North Park is a step in the right direction but I know that it took several people bleeding a gallon of blood to make that happen.   Sure Norman needs to recognize its uniqueness.  But I hope the warm and fuzzies that many feel the need to wrap themselves in don't get in the way of what is economically good for the rest of Norman.


UNP is a POS.  It is a step in the direction of turning Norman into Edmond.  I avoid that part of town if at all possible.  I am so glad we now have a shoe carnival... give me a break.  Say no to strip mall hell.

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## rcjunkie

> UNP is a POS.  It is a step in the direction of turning Norman into Edmond.  I avoid that part of town if at all possible.  I am so glad we now have a shoe carnival... give me a break.  Say no to strip mall hell.


I couldn't agree more, UNP is definately a step backwards.

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## gamecock

I completely disagree. We enjoy having Super Target, Pei Wei, and Academy Sports here in town. And, the Embassy Suites is actually a decent hotel for visitors. For a "strip mall," it looks pretty good. Of course, this is not the final part of the project. These stores are all intended to generate traffic for the lifestyle center that is planned to open across the street. While it is taking longer than expected (not surprising given the economic climate), I look forward to seeing this development continue to grow.

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## Spartan

Don't Del City my anything.

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## mireaux

> In a lot of ways, they are so much alike it's comical.....


um, not really. In Norman youre bound to find much more diversity. More people of different ethnicities, walks-of-life, career fields, backgrounds, etc.

Edmond has too much of the stagnant reknown uppity elitist snobs to be as diversified as Norman. 

Both towns have colleges, thats really the only similarity I see.

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## td25er

> um, not really. In Norman youre bound to find much more diversity. More people of different ethnicities, walks-of-life, career fields, backgrounds, etc.
> 
> Edmond has too much of the stagnant reknown* uppity elitist snobs* to be as diversified as Norman. 
> 
> Both towns have colleges, thats really the only similarity I see.


There is a perception that Edmond people are elitist snobs.  

On the other hand, Norman people won't STFU about how great they are.

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## Richard at Remax

outside the mile radius around campus. norman = edmond. I have lived both places.

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## decepticobra

> outside the mile radius around campus. norman = edmond. I have lived both places.


by that logic, any college town can be an "edmond" or a "norman"

however, i doubt your logic.

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## RealJimbo

> outside the mile radius around campus. norman = edmond. I have lived both places.


Ding ding ding ding....And worthy cook wins the Kewpy Doll!!!

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## decepticobra

> UNP is a POS.  It is a step in the direction of turning Norman into Edmond.  I avoid that part of town if at all possible.  I am so glad we now have a shoe carnival... give me a break.  Say no to strip mall hell.


what the hell is university north park?

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## king183

> what the hell is university north park?


It's the development where the Super Target is.  The main criticism is that we were promised something very unique and spectacular and it's simply turned into another strip mall with stores like Dress Barn.

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## Richard at Remax

I am going to lose sleep if I don't know what the Kewpy Doll is.

Look it's just an opinion of a 26 year old who spent 4.5 years going to school at OU and have now lived over 4 years in edmond. love both cities. sure norman has more diverse people because there IS a major univeristy there. 

Plus isn't it the pot calling kettle black when you say that you don't want to be like edmond because norman is better than that. just think it's silly.

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## decepticobra

blah blah blah..just wanted to type something so this thread prevails over the contending thread "dont norman my edmond"

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## pw405

If you under 30, I would hate to live in Edmond.  Unless you want to get a head start on boring suburban life which is OK for some.  Not for me.  I have had some great great times in Norman - parks, festivals, bars/restraunts, OU campus (recently graduated).

I totally agree about Edmond being a police state/city.  If  you are black, its like trying to approach the Berlin Wall.  I have a really close black friend who lives in OKC & got a job in Edmond.  He eventually quit because he got pulled over so often - no faulty equipment, license & insurance all valid.

Cops would pull him over, demand an explanation for what he was doin, CONSTANTLY badger him about selling drugs. etc, he would then explain he is going to work, in his work uniform. 

When I think Edmond I think - Nice houses, racists, holier than thou attitude, rat race.

When I think Norman I think - OU campus, parks, festivals, diversity, development, bars, restruants, college town.  Norman has nation leading facilities - NWC, & the USPS Training Center. Memorial stadium, etc.  

Maybe if Edmond didn't treat minorities like scum they would have a chance of catching Norman in population?  Lol. 

UCO will never "catch" OU in terms of development.  Thats like saying OKC metro will one day "catch" DFW in population size.  Not happening.

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## Mr Big

PW makes a good point, but I think he's selling Norman. Everything he attributed to Edmond, can and should also be attributed to Norman's northwest side as well.

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## td25er

> If you under 30, I would hate to live in Edmond.  Unless you want to get a head start on boring suburban life which is OK for some.  Not for me.  I have had some great great times in Norman - parks, festivals, bars/restraunts, OU campus (recently graduated).
> 
> I totally agree about Edmond being a police state/city.  If  you are black, its like trying to approach the Berlin Wall.  I have a really close black friend who lives in OKC & got a job in Edmond.  He eventually quit because he got pulled over so often - no faulty equipment, license & insurance all valid.
> 
> Cops would pull him over, demand an explanation for what he was doin, CONSTANTLY badger him about selling drugs. etc, he would then explain he is going to work, in his work uniform. 
> 
> When I think Edmond I think - Nice houses, racists, *holier than thou attitude*, rat race.
> 
> When I think Norman I think - OU campus, parks, festivals, diversity, development, bars, restruants, college town.  Norman has nation leading facilities - NWC, & the USPS Training Center. Memorial stadium, etc.  
> ...


This is hilariously ironic considering your entire post is about Norman being "holier" than Edmond.

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## decepticobra

good morning for a nice jog. hopefully it doesnt get too humid today.

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## dankrutka

I have lived in both towns and I've always thought that it referenced that Edmond is a generic, boring town full of chains while Norman is a fun, unique town with thriving local businesses. If you disagree with this just check out the restaraunt selection. Norman is far superior. It's not even close.

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## td25er

> I have lived in both towns and I've always thought that it referenced that Edmond is a generic, boring town full of chains while Norman is a fun, unique town with thriving local businesses. If you disagree with this just check out the *restaraunt selection*. Norman is far superior. It's not even close.


Name some.

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## dankrutka

These are just a few Norman-owned restaurants:
Pepe Delgado's (authentic Mexican)
Tarahumara's (Tex-Mex)
Victoria's (Italian)
Greek House
NY Pizza
Gi Jing (sp?) (sushi and more...)
Othello's 
Blu
The Library
Legends
The Earth (vegetarian/vegan, healthy)...

Here are a few regionally/state owned places that are succeeding in Norman:
Bison Witches (sandwiches and soup)
In The Raw (sushi)
Iron Starr (urban BBQ - the 1st one is in OKC)
La Luna
Chelino's

Those are just the places off the top of my head.

Norman does a great job of supporting Norman-owned restaurants and ones that are regional/state that are essentially local. Edmond does not. Edmond has a bunch of national chains.  The same could be said of bars. There are a ton of great places to have a beer in Norman, but not in Edmond. Norman is local and unique. Edmond is chain-based and generic.

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## td25er

> These are just a few Norman-owned restaurants:
> Pepe Delgado's (authentic Mexican)
> Tarahumara's (Tex-Mex)
> Victoria's (Italian)
> Greek House
> NY Pizza
> Gi Jing (sp?) (sushi and more...)
> Othello's 
> Blu
> ...


Off the top of my head, Edmond has 

Othello's
Interurban
Mr Sushi
Boulevard Steakhouse
Cafe 501
Zarate's
Chelino's
Coach's
Goldie's
Johnnie's
Steve's Rib
Lottinville's
Hideaway
Ted's
Flat Tire Burgers
Sumo
Milanos Pizzeria
Pepe's
Louie's

I admit the bars in Edmond are lacking, but there are plenty of places to go on Memorial, which is basically considered "Edmond".

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## dankrutka

Exactly. You just listed a bunch of "local" restaraunts that feel like chains. I would never include those on a list of good, local places to eat. Goldies? Interurban?  Also, Memorial is as generic as it gets. If Edmondiers are claiming Memorial theb you are just proving my point. I've lived in both places and the local food scene in Norman destroys Edmond.

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