# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Tulsa & Suburbs >  Canoo Electric Vehicles selects Oklahoma for plant

## Anonymous.

Just announced this morning, Tulsa will be home to Canoo. Looks like at least 2000 jobs.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301314784.html

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## Pete

I've been tracking this for a while...

OKC made a major pitch and they were trying to get them to build at I-240 and Eastern:

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## FighttheGoodFight

Those are some odd loving vehicles but I hope to see some of them on the road!

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## jedicurt

Pete, do you know what Tulsa was offering that OKC didn't?

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## Pete

> Pete, do you know what Tulsa was offering that OKC didn't?


No, the details are never public unless there is a done deal that requires approval of incentives.

I do know there was an issue with the OKC site due to a high-pressure gas line that runs through the middle.

Don't know if that made it more difficult to give them a good deal, but it seems likely.

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## shawnw

There's a 2pm news conference about the "mega micro" factory.......

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## catcherinthewry

> There's a 2pm news conference about the "mega micro" factory.......


Are they producing jumbo shrimp?

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## shawnw

> Are they producing jumbo shrimp?


I mean, they're making cars that are named after a boat, so anything is possible...

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## jedicurt

> I do know there was an issue with the OKC site due to a high-pressure gas line that runs through the middle.
> 
> Don't know if that made it more difficult to give them a good deal, but it seems likely.


lol... so much land in OKC... and of course we can't find any good land for them... /facepalm

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## Jake

Good for the Tulsa area.

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## Martin

> lol... so much land in OKC... and of course we can't find any good land for them... /facepalm


just east of the freight yard seems like a pretty good spot for a manufacturing plant, to me.

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## Pete

> lol... so much land in OKC... and of course we can't find any good land for them... /facepalm


I don't know if that was an issue, just sharing what I know.

To be fair, OKC wins many more of these types of deals than does Tulsa.

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## GoGators

Good for Tulsa. They were probably ahead of the game on their pitch after doing all of the leg work courting the Tesla factory. Seems like a good win for the state. I just hope it actually happens. These EV startups are looking pretty shaky right now.

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## BG918

This will be near Google's data center in between Pryor and Chouteau, so not Tulsa per se but nearby.  The Tesla site is still available if/when either Tesla or another manufacturer wants to build a plant and is in East Tulsa.

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## PoliSciGuy

Stinks for OKC to miss out, but good for the state overall. Hope more follow!

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## chssooner

This is not just good for the Tulsa area (about an hour or so from Tulsa), but also for the state. Increases property taxes, increases state income tax revenue and sales tax revenue will also go up. Not bad for the state as a whole.

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## baralheia

^^

I agree. I'm a bit sad that OKC wasn't selected for this manufacturing plant but still glad they landed within Oklahoma.

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## David

Does this company make vehicles anywhere else? Have they ever made a vehicle, and is there any reason to believe they'll be producing a finished product at that plant location somewhere down the line?

Based on my brief googling earlier I can't help but think the answers to all of the above is 'no'.

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## Pete

^

I started following Canoo several months ago and the whole company has been in disarray, including a recently opened SEC investigation, the departure of the CEO and other key execs,  and a class-action lawsuit brought by shareholders.

I know they met with economic development reps here in OKC but everyone involved knew that Canoo is far from a sure thing.

Hope it all works out and the state sees benefit.

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## FighttheGoodFight

They might go the Rivian route and basically make a car in hopes a bigger manufacture will buy it out.

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## shavethewhales

The company looks iffy, and I'm scared to get my hopes up, but the interest in the state and Tulsa area is good I guess. Their designs look weird, but apparently the tech is decent and the prototypes work well. I agree that they may be looking to get bought out. Hopefully we still end up with something. The van design looks interesting, and the truck is pretty utilitarian even with it's stupid front end design.

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## Plutonic Panda

I wonder if the inland water port was a deciding factor. 

Either way, this is great news and hopefully it is built and actually happens. Some of these EVs are bound to not pan out. I am happy a car maker finally selected Oklahoma for a production plant. The term “mega micro factory” is a bit oxymoronic but okay.

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## Jersey Boss

> Does this company make vehicles anywhere else? Have they ever made a vehicle, and is there any reason to believe they'll be producing a finished product at that plant location somewhere down the line?
> 
> Based on my brief googling earlier I can't help but think the answers to all of the above is 'no'.


They partnered with Dutch Company NEDCAR to start production on 2022 & 2023 vehicles.

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## Jersey Boss

> The company looks iffy, and I'm scared to get my hopes up, but the interest in the state and Tulsa area is good I guess. Their designs look weird, but apparently the tech is decent and the prototypes work well. I agree that they may be looking to get bought out. Hopefully we still end up with something. The van design looks interesting, and the truck is pretty utilitarian even with it's stupid front end design.


I wonder if the "Eye Brow" added them to his portfolio?

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## GaryOKC6

You have to remember that the governor lives and has his company in Tulsa.  He naturally tends to push projects that way.

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## chssooner

> You have to remember that the governor lives and has his company in Tulsa.  He naturally tends to push projects that way.


He has tried this, and quite a few of these types of announcements have still gone to OKC, despite him actively telling companies Tulsa is better (from people i know who would know, he is almost a bigger recruiter for Tulsa than their own chamber). Makes what OKC is doing, in spite of what the governor is telling companies, more impressive. 

But enough about the city vs city thing. Just glad to get a huge development like this.

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## ChrisHayes

> I've been tracking this for a while...
> 
> OKC made a major pitch and they were trying to get them to build at I-240 and Eastern:


What used to be on that plot of land? I'm guessing a tornado wiped it out.

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## WheelerD Guy

I’ll be pleasantly surprised if they end up building this. Most of these EV startups don’t have the capital to follow through on much of anything.

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## Laramie

Oklahoman, 06-18-2021
Electric Car Plant, good news for our sister city of Tulsa.   A plant of this size and magnitude is sure to attract a number of satellite companies to neighboring Tulsa. 

Wish them the best of luck.

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## jccouger

Any EV company that isn't Tesla has major major work ahead of them to ever become a legitimate company.

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## catcherinthewry

> What used to be on that plot of land? I'm guessing a tornado wiped it out.


I don't remember anything ever being on that square mile.

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## G.Walker

I'm sure with Stitt being from Tulsa has something to do with it. He was probably making his home city look a lot more business attractive, lol. 

Maybe he feels it was owed to them, since they lost out on the Tesla deal.

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## shavethewhales

I'm sure Stitt had very little to do with landing this. Mid American Industrial Park is a pretty serious enterprise and they have a lot to offer and market themselves very well. They landed a huge Google facility... Local govs like to take credit, but businesses go where it makes sense for them to go, and Mid American is good at making the case that it makes sense for businesses to locate there. They have good rail infrastructure, close access to Port of Catoosa, cheap reliable power, and are close enough to population centers to get employees while being out it the boondocks enough to make building anything you want pretty easy.

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## chssooner

> I'm sure Stitt had very little to do with landing this. Mid American Industrial Park is a pretty serious enterprise and they have a lot to offer and market themselves very well. They landed a huge Google facility... Local govs like to take credit, but businesses go where it makes sense for them to go, and Mid American is good at making the case that it makes sense for businesses to locate there. They have good rail infrastructure, close access to Port of Catoosa, cheap reliable power, and are close enough to population centers to get employees while being out it the boondocks enough to make building anything you want pretty easy.


If they received a large amount of state incentives, then he DEFINITELY had a lot to do with it. Sure, infrastructure is there. But companies don't build huge plants like this without massive subsidies, since that is the way of the world, unfortunately.

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## Bunty

> If they received a large amount of state incentives, then he DEFINITELY had a lot to do with it. Sure, infrastructure is there. But companies don't build huge plants like this without massive subsidies, since that is the way of the world, unfortunately.


True to the tune of $300 million, according to company CEO.  Unusual, though,  how the state doesn't want to confirm it:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/ok...26a2a9563.html

Former Senator Nickles helped:  https://tulsaworld.com/business/loca...me-top-story-1

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## Bunty

> I'm sure Stitt had very little to do with landing this. Mid American Industrial Park is a pretty serious enterprise and they have a lot to offer and market themselves very well. They landed a huge Google facility... Local govs like to take credit, but businesses go where it makes sense for them to go, and Mid American is good at making the case that it makes sense for businesses to locate there. They have good rail infrastructure, close access to Port of Catoosa, cheap reliable power, and are close enough to population centers to get employees while being out it the boondocks enough to make building anything you want pretty easy.


'Beginning of a new wave': MidAmerica Industrial Park wants to capitalize on Canoo investment in Pryor:  https://tulsaworld.com/business/loca...b3dcc883a.html

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## David

> True to the tune of $300 million, according to company CEO.  Unusual, though,  how the state doesn't want to confirm it:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/ok...26a2a9563.html
> 
> Former Senator Nickles helped:  https://tulsaworld.com/business/loca...me-top-story-1


I hope there's a clawback process for any actual dollars spent if and when this arrangement falls through.

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## HangryHippo

> I hope there's a clawback process for any actual dollars spent if and when this arrangement falls through.


This!

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## jerrywall

> I hope there's a clawback process for any actual dollars spent if and when this arrangement falls through.


Outside of land purchases and such, aren't most incentives based on performance metrics? 

Of course, this would all be easier to decode if this information was public.  I understand needing some confidentiality during the process, but at some point all the details need to be released.

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## FighttheGoodFight

> Outside of land purchases and such, aren't most incentives based on performance metrics? 
> 
> Of course, this would all be easier to decode if this information was public.  I understand needing some confidentiality during the process, but at some point all the details need to be released.


I assume they will come back as the legislature is interested in what was promised from both sides.

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## GoGators

Animation of the conceptual design for the Oklahoma campus

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## Jersey Boss

> Outside of land purchases and such, aren't most incentives based on performance metrics? 
> 
> Of course, this would all be easier to decode if this information was public.  I understand needing some confidentiality during the process, but at some point all the details need to be released.


In as much the process is over, the details should already be released. Stitt has shown a penchant for keeping the public in the dark. No details means no accountability.  The Covid reports generated by the Feds are an example. My opinion is partly based on the fact that not only is this company a start up but more importantly is the fact that it is under SEC investigation.

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## Pete

The Canoo people are talking about the deal publicly, so it's not like the state needs to withhold info to avoid killing the deal (the common excuse given for secrecy).

They just don't want the hard numbers out because they know people will raise objections and they want to just shove this through.

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## ChrisHayes

I'm not a fan of electric cars for a whole host of reasons, and I think Canoo should at least change their designs a bit. However, I really hope this works out. One of my dreams for Oklahoma is it to be a huge manufacturing hub. We can certainly generate a work force for manufacturing with all of the tech schools.

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## BG918

> I'm not a fan of electric cars for a whole host of reasons, and I think Canoo should at least change their designs a bit. However, I really hope this works out. One of my dreams for Oklahoma is it to be a huge manufacturing hub. We can certainly generate a work force for manufacturing with all of the tech schools.


NE Oklahoma has a large skilled manufacturing workforce thanks to existing industries and trade schools like Tulsa Tech, Tulsa Welding School, Spartan and TCC.  Manufacturing of various O&G components, heat exchangers, mechanical equipment, aircraft parts and various other misc things like Whirlpool appliances and paper products at Kimberley Clark and Sofidel .  With the downturn in O&G many of these same types of jobs could be easily transferred to electric car production with sites east of Tulsa with highway, waterway and rail access.

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## gopokes88

> The Canoo people are talking about the deal publicly, so it's not like the state needs to withhold info to avoid killing the deal (the common excuse given for secrecy).
> 
> They just don't want the hard numbers out because they know people will raise objections and they want to just shove this through.


Or the fact Canoo like almost every other electric start up company is probably a scam and likely to be bankrupt within 24 months. They're not any different than Lordstown Motors or Nikola.

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## Pete

> Or the fact Canoo like almost every other electric start up company is probably a scam and likely to be bankrupt within 24 months. They're not any different than Lordstown Motors or Nikola.


I'm sure Stitt wants them to hold on long enough so he can use this deal as a feather in his cap for the November 2022 reelection.

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## gopokes88

https://twitter.com/HindenburgRes/st...519417861?s=20

https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola/

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## gopokes88

> I'm sure Stitt wants them to hold on long enough so he can use this deal as a feather in his cap for the November 2022 reelection.


Broader economy will determine that.

Nikola has been proven to be a scam. Still churning along as a $7B stock somehow.

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## GoGators

> Or the fact Canoo like almost every other electric start up company is probably a scam and likely to be bankrupt within 24 months. They're not any different than Lordstown Motors or Nikola.


Unfortunately, I think you are spot on with this take.

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## chssooner

Man, if Oklahoma had lost this factory to another state, there would be complaints that Oklahoma needs to step their game up. Now that they won the bid, there is still bashing of Oklahoma. Can't win for losing, I guess...

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## FighttheGoodFight

> Man, if Oklahoma had lost this factory to another state, there would be complaints that Oklahoma needs to step their game up. Now that they won the bid, there is still bashing of Oklahoma. Can't win for losing, I guess...


I mean the difference being Tesla actually has factories/makes cars. Canoo doesn't yet. I think that is a legit concern.

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## gopokes88

> Man, if Oklahoma had lost this factory to another state, there would be complaints that Oklahoma needs to step their game up. Now that they won the bid, there is still bashing of Oklahoma. Can't win for losing, I guess...


I'm ecstatic we landed it.

Given broader trends and frauds in the EV space, I'm extremely skeptical.

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## Pete

> Man, if Oklahoma had lost this factory to another state, there would be complaints that Oklahoma needs to step their game up. Now that they won the bid, there is still bashing of Oklahoma. Can't win for losing, I guess...


Almost everyone has said they are happy for the state.

But there are also a lot of reasons to doubt this company will ever be able to perform, and that's based on hard information.


Both these things can be simultaneously true.

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## FighttheGoodFight

Little more info on the incentives to come to Oklahoma. ~300 million over all with 16 million in land and 15 million in cash as an upfront payment.

https://twitter.com/readfrontier/sta...863979522?s=21

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## David

I hope there's a clawback provision for that cash.

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## Bill Robertson

> Those are some odd loving vehicles but I hope to see some of them on the road!


They are odd looking. But they say they're shooting for 500+ HP for the pickup version. Not shabby.

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## shavethewhales

That's a pretty wild slate of incentives, but I guess if it works, it works. This project needs to be watched closely, and it is concerning that the company is under investigation, but still... Going from conception to reality in this business is going to be rocky. If it all works out and they actually build this factory, I think the incentives will be worth it, but it's definitely a gamble. 

I was hoping it wouldn't take that much to get them here, but I guess it makes sense seeing how many other places they could have gone that are probably better suited for it. 

I am still rooting for them.

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## BG918

If Canoo is successful it will likely lead to suppliers and other companies setting up shop in NE OK.  An excerpt from The Frontier article:



> Economic development officials in the state hope Canoo will lure more electric vehicle makers and suppliers, helping make Oklahoma part of a regional manufacturing corridor for the burgeoning industry. 
> 
> The electric vehicle industry is poised for major growth over the next decade, and landing one manufacturer is often the key to attracting other companies, Stewart said.
> 
> “It’s a very logical progression of an industry and the benefits it can bring to Oklahoma are significant and long-lasting,” he said.

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## Jersey Boss

Canoo is setting up headquarters in Walmart’s hometown, picks Panasonic as battery supplier | TechCrunch
https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/15/ca...tery-supplier/

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## chssooner

> Canoo is setting up headquarters in Walmart’s hometown, picks Panasonic as battery supplier | TechCrunch
> https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/15/ca...tery-supplier/


Ouch. Losing to Arkansas. Not good.

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## Jake

https://tulsaworld.com/business/loca...412bb7314.html

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## dcsooner

On the money front, the company reported a net loss of $80.9 million in the third quarter, about a fourfold increase from the $23.4 million in losses it reported in the same period last year.

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## Plutonic Panda

Damn. They should have made their HQ in Tulsa. Oh well, this is a good sign I guess it’s moving forward. OKC is also getting a slice of the pie as well which is good. Why have so much presence in Oklahoma only to relocate HQ to Arkansas? Is the business climate better there?

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## Jake

> On the money front, the company reported a net loss of $80.9 million in the third quarter, about a fourfold increase from the $23.4 million in losses it reported in the same period last year.


I'm still skeptical of any of this actually happening.

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## BG918

> Damn. They should have made their HQ in Tulsa. Oh well, this is a good sign I guess it’s moving forward. OKC is also getting a slice of the pie as well which is good. Why have so much presence in Oklahoma only to relocate HQ to Arkansas? Is the business climate better there?


Tulsa will be an R&D center with 375 new jobs planned.  I’m still skeptical but they are certainly doubling down on the region.

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## shavethewhales

Ugh, it drives me nuts that no company wants to have an HQ here. The lack of a major university presence really hurts us. I wish UTulsa had grown better. ORU is rapidly expanding, but... 

The supposed R&D center sounds like a political offering. We'll see how many jobs actually materialize.

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## chssooner

> Ugh, it drives me nuts that no company wants to have an HQ here. The lack of a major university presence really hurts us. I wish UTulsa had grown better. ORU is rapidly expanding, but... 
> 
> The supposed R&D center sounds like a political offering. We'll see how many jobs actually materialize.


Thank goodness our idiot governor favors Tulsa, rather than OKC, where there are 2 large universities, and a few other private colleges, as well.

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## Plutonic Panda

> Tulsa will be an R&D center with 375 new jobs planned.  I’m still skeptical but they are certainly doubling down on the region.


The WPIX oil building would have been great for the HQ.

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## Plutonic Panda

> Thank goodness our idiot governor favors Tulsa, rather than OKC, where there are 2 large universities, and a few other private colleges, as well.


Meh, show Tulsa some love. OKC’s is fortunate to be able to hold a time while this moron governor we have does everything in his power to screw the state up beyond belief. Quite frankly and I don’t mean this as a knock on Tulsa but imagine if the place didn’t have George Kaiser. Similarly, imagine if OKC had someone like him who did some thing on the same scale. We got close with Aubrey but taken in the perspective I would say that Kaiser did more.

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## dcsooner

> Ugh, it drives me nuts that no company wants to have an HQ here. The lack of a major university presence really hurts us. I wish UTulsa had grown better. ORU is rapidly expanding, but... 
> 
> The supposed R&D center sounds like a political offering. We'll see how many jobs actually materialize.


I agree. OU, TU and OSU need to improve academic standing

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## BG918

> Ugh, it drives me nuts that no company wants to have an HQ here. The lack of a major university presence really hurts us. I wish UTulsa had grown better. ORU is rapidly expanding, but... 
> 
> The supposed R&D center sounds like a political offering. We'll see how many jobs actually materialize.


I think this has a Wal-Mart connection hence why they are in Bentonville.  Tulsa will have the R&D center, Pryor has the factory and OKC has customer service ops.  Net win for Oklahoma.

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## progressiveboy

I have always wondered why Oklahoma can never compete for major HQ relocations? What is it that makes Oklahoma so undesirable.?  Just this week in DFW we landed a major international headquarters in Plano from Dublin, Ireland setting up their US HQ. A high tech company. Canoo sounds like a fly by night organization and I have my major doubts!! Oklahoma can do way better, however the question is "Does Oklahoma want to do better"?

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## Plutonic Panda

It really puzzles me. Do the “Oklahoma has a backwards reputation” really have merit? Is Arkansas that more progressive than Oklahoma?

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## chssooner

> It really puzzles me. Do the “Oklahoma has a backwards reputation” really have merit? Is Arkansas that more progressive than Oklahoma?


I think it has less to do with being progressive (Arkansas is NOT progressive, by any means), and more to do with Oklahoma, at least at the very top, being less willing to market OKC vs Tulsa. Tulsa has its plusses, but they pale in comparison to OKC. Yet you only see the Governor calling for Tulsa to get in on these events. If a company sees that your top leader doesn't see the difference in the 2 cities, then why should they come here? Just my opinion. Sure, OKC has landed stuff under Stitt, but not with any help from him, either. But he is very vocal about getting Tulsa jobs.

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## jerrywall

I can only recall Stitt pushing for one company to locate their HQ in Tulsa, and that was driven largely by an effort in Tulsa to recruit Tesla (which was never going to happen).  I follow Stitt's daily feed on Facebook and get emailed releases, and he promotes and pumps OKC businesses and potential OKC businesses as much or more than Tulsa.  He's just not OKC exclusive/focused like some Governor's have been.  Like or dislike him on other stuff, I'm not sure if I buy this Tulsa vs OKC marketing criticism.  It might be valid, but honestly we aren't aware of 95% of the "marketing" that goes on to businesses.

It should be noted Stitt just got back from a trip to Mexico where he was talking about a potential Consulate in OKC, and meeting with multiple Mexican business leaders about opening HQ's/offices in OKC/Oklahoma.

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## Bunty

> I have always wondered why Oklahoma can never compete for major HQ relocations? What is it that makes Oklahoma so undesirable.?  Just this week in DFW we landed a major international headquarters in Plano from Dublin, Ireland setting up their US HQ. A high tech company. Canoo sounds like a fly by night organization and I have my major doubts!! Oklahoma can do way better, however the question is "Does Oklahoma want to do better"?


I believed it has always had to do with Oklahoma having no nonstop international destinations from its airports and lack of support for education, especially state wide.  Raising teacher pay took months and was like pulling hen's teeth. I doubt many well paying companies will want to move to Oklahoma, if they don't expect to find enough well qualified workers.   Oklahoma is a great middle of the country location, but so is Texas.

Generally,  at the rural county level, Oklahoma sure doesn't want to do better.  If it means raising taxes or could end up raising taxes, they want nothing to do with helping to make the state better.  Even though it didn't require raising taxes, nearly every rural county, 70 of them,  rejected  expanded Medicaid.  Rural people want to be independent as much as possible from the government and are used to making do with less from the economic level.   At least the two biggest urban areas are not as much that way as reflected by OKC's MAPS programs.

Oklahoma hasn't deserved as much for being a backward state since 2018 when alcohol and med marijuana reforms were put into effect..

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## formerly405Tulsan

> I think it has less to do with being progressive (Arkansas is NOT progressive, by any means), and more to do with Oklahoma, at least at the very top, being less willing to market OKC vs Tulsa. Tulsa has its plusses, but they pale in comparison to OKC. Yet you only see the Governor calling for Tulsa to get in on these events. If a company sees that your top leader doesn't see the difference in the 2 cities, then why should they come here? Just my opinion. Sure, OKC has landed stuff under Stitt, but not with any help from him, either. But he is very vocal about getting Tulsa jobs.


No need to get into a pissing contest and list off who has what, but pales  in comparison is a bit of a stretch.

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## BG918

It makes sense to focus economic development for a particular industry in one area to not dilute efforts.  The state is focusing its EV developments in NE OK.

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## king183

https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/20/...ip-tony-aquila

Canoo with another major c-suite shake up. The computer seems to be having substantial “growing pains.”

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## chssooner

We can only hope the state hasn't given them any money yet. But given how happy our governor was for his part of the state to get this win, he probably front-loaded payments to them.

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## BG918

You have to think there is some connection to Wal-Mart.  I see them getting off the ground with a partner like that.  They want to begin producing in Arkansas in 2022 before they bring the Pryor plant online in 2023.

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## T. Jamison

However, all of the executives that have left over the last several years seem to have automotive industry experience. That is slightly concerning to me. Maybe they saw some writing on the walls?

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## gopokes88

Start-ups are risky. Most fail.

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## shavethewhales

I've definitely been losing hope for this to turn into anything. Too many big announcements, too many major people leaving, not enough to show for it all. It's weird how many different facilities have been announced all over the place. If they were just proposing the plant in Pryor and the HQ in Bentonville, it would make more sense, but they've made promises for thousands of jobs at this point and don't even have a product off the ground yet as far as I know. I'm not in tune with the EV industry and I know tech firms need to go big fast, but this is ridiculous.

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## jerrywall

https://insideevs.com/news/555763/ca...manufacturing/

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## shawnw

https://twitter.com/Ben_Geman/status...26109304958981

not sure if it means anything...

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## Swake

Canoo is doing some serious hiring in Tulsa.

https://careers-canoo.icims.com/jobs...81-12820-Tulsa

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## jedicurt

> I guess thats a good sign of movement. President Biden refuses to even acknowledge Tesla exists. I wonder if hell talk about this company.


looks like you spoke a few hours too late. lol. he actually did acknowledge Tesla, just did it a few hours before your post. lol  not saying you should have known that, or that he shouldn't have done it sooner. but literally just read the article about 10 minutes ago myself and then saw your post. lol

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/08/bide...riticisms.html

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## Plutonic Panda

> looks like you spoke a few hours too late. lol. he actually did acknowledge Tesla, just did it a few hours before your post. lol  not saying you should have known that, or that he shouldn't have done it sooner. but literally just read the article about 10 minutes ago myself and then saw your post. lol
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/08/bide...riticisms.html


Better late than never!

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## Plutonic Panda

More good news!

https://tulsaworld.com/business/loca...b607308b2.html

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## FighttheGoodFight

More details on the Canoo contract with Oklahoma. $15 million incentive, the land and agree to purchase 1,000 of the vehicles. 

https://www.readfrontier.org/stories...-closing-fund/

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## David

That's a surprisingly big purchase of EVs by the state, assuming they eventually ever exist to be purchased.

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## gopokes88

> That's a surprisingly big purchase of EVs by the state, assuming they eventually ever exist to be purchased.


lol that was probably part of the bet. the incentives we offered amount to a 50/50 bet they survive. If they do survive, yeah sure we'll buy some.

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## gopokes88

https://seekingalpha.com/news/380768...-earnings-miss

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/canoo...214200685.html

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## Plutonic Panda

More less than exciting news: https://www.autonews.com/executives/...eXxQIvW-Zd7V40

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## LocoAko

Who could have foreseen this not exactly being a grand slam? (It seems almost everyone).

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## chssooner

Imagine if Oklahoma didn't try for Canoo. The people on here would be bashing them for not getting a company like this. Just amazes me, the hypocrisy.

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## Plutonic Panda

I’m happy we are trying for Canoo and I am still rooting for them to succeed. It can still be pulled off. Lots of Stitt haters in this state, I don’t the guy, seem to be blasting this on social media and almost hoping it fails. I am not on that train. But everyone knew that there are risks with this. Not sure why at every new development we need to have a “told you so” post when things go a little south.

----------


## LocoAko

> I’m happy we are trying for Canoo and I am still rooting for them to succeed. It can still be pulled off. Lots of Stitt haters in this state, I don’t the guy, seem to be blasting this on social media and almost hoping it fails. I am not on that train. But everyone knew that there are risks with this. Not sure why at every new development we need to have a “told you so” post when things go a little south.


I'd love for them to succeed too and am hoping with a lot of the recent news that Oklahoma can become a hub of EV manufacturing (and usage?). I'm just saying that when this was first announced there was major bragging from Stitt/state leadership about what a big get this was while the terms of the deal were very mysterious and opaque, and many, many people pointed out that it was a risky investment in a company with a spotty track record. Now a lot of those concerns seem to be coming true in a very predictable manner. Obviously not every effort to lure a company is going to pay off big in the end, but I don't think it's crazy to challenge the Governor's (self-)promotional materials on this when things are rocky at best and it may not end up having been a great investment. Hopefully they can turn things around.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> I'd love for them to succeed too and am hoping with a lot of the recent news that Oklahoma can become a hub of EV manufacturing (and usage?). I'm just saying that when this was first announced there was major bragging from Stitt/state leadership about what a big get this was while the terms of the deal were very mysterious and opaque, and many, many people pointed out that it was a risky investment in a company with a spotty track record. Now a lot of those concerns seem to be coming true in a very predictable manner. Obviously not every effort to lure a company is going to pay off big in the end, but I don't think it's crazy to challenge the Governor's (self-)promotional materials on this when things are rocky at best and it may not end up having been a great investment. Hopefully they can turn things around.


True. Hopefully this all pans out for Oklahomas sake. This could be great for the state if it comes to be.

----------


## dhpersonal

> Imagine if Oklahoma didn't try for Canoo. The people on here would be bashing them for not getting a company like this. Just amazes me, the hypocrisy.


I wouldn’t be one of those people. I don’t think a state is working in its best interest when it attempts to bribe a large company to set its headquarters here when it comes at the expense of the residents who have to be burdened with the effects of tax breaks.

----------


## chssooner

> I wouldn’t be one of those people. I don’t think a state is working in its best interest when it attempts to bribe a large company to set its headquarters here when it comes at the expense of the residents who have to be burdened with the effects of tax breaks.


Texas in a nutshell. Most residents HATE that they have grown like they have, because their property tax bills are insanely high, to offset companies getting tax breaks. Read the Houston Chronicle's series about the tax breaks and normal residents.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/pro...burden-series/

----------


## Laramie

This is going to be great boost for Tulsa and the possible Panasonic Plant to be built in Tulsa to supply batteries.   You will see Tulsa's city & MSA area increase in population in 2023.

----------


## Bunty

CNHI's story on Canoo:
Oklahoma wants to be the home of electric, hydrogen-fueled vehicles.
https://www.stwnewspress.com/oklahom...d2a5d44ce.html

----------


## gopokes88

> More less than exciting news: https://www.autonews.com/executives/...eXxQIvW-Zd7V40


For the record this broke back in middle February.

----------


## Jersey Boss

News that's more current. Stitt breaks record for corporate welfare. First it was sporting teams now everybody thinks the state/locality needs to pay "juice". 15M to be exact.

Looking at those proposed vehicles I would hate to be in a head on collision if I was in the front seat.

https://www.newson6.com/story/621ff0...acturing-plant

----------


## gopokes88

hell yeah go Stitt

----------


## BG918

This is what the state is working to promote and why Canoo (and Panasonic) are important.  There will likely only be a handful of these industry clusters around the country.



> All this is part of what CEO Tony Aquila calls the transformation of U.S. 412 in Arkansas and Oklahoma into a “center of electric vehicle research, development and manufacturing power.”


https://www.armoneyandpolitics.com/c...facturing-hub/

----------


## mugofbeer

Until and unless laws are passed (which likely won't happen) outlawing all states from offering incentives to companies, the incentive game is alive and well and it's not going away. They've been around for decades and, despite articles to the contrary, they work - otherwise, incentives wouldn't be so popular.

Incentives are nothing more than an investment. Texas is making a virtually risk-free $1 billion investment in Tesla, Kansas is offering a $1 billion virtually risk-free investment in Panasonic while OK is making a highly risky investment, perhaps $300 million, in Canoo. The return is a property tax bonanza and tax revenue increases from new residents, new housing, ancillary businesses, etc.  Think of Tesla as blue-chip while Canoo is a penny stock.

The answer isn't to complain about incentives, but to ensure the incentive money is going to the lowest-risk, "best investment."

----------


## BG918

I don’t know the details of the state incentives for Panasonic but I imagine they will be similar or better than what KS offers.  It makes sense to locate in OK as it is closer to the Tesla Gigafactory as well as future EV manufacturing in NE OK.

----------


## shawnw

Commerce Dept showing off some vehicles

https://www.instagram.com/p/CbiGIKduZyq/

----------


## Pete

Motor Trend has a comprehensive article about the company and vehicles:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/cano...ctric-vehicle/

----------


## PhiAlpha

So apparently Canoo is involved in a NASA moon mission now…

*NASA's Artemis mission to the moon will start in a Canoo*


https://www.foxnews.com/auto/nasas-a...ion-moon-canoo


Explore the Fox News apps that are right for you at http://www.foxnews.com/apps-products/index.html.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

Pushed back opening date by a year to 2023. 

https://www.readfrontier.org/stories...hicle-startup/

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

I can't edit for some reason but it should be 2024 not 2023 (Thanks GreenCounty!)

----------


## BG918

Not related to Canoo but EV manufacturing in Oklahoma: Navistar is building its first generation electric IC buses at its Tulsa plant

----------


## David

EV startup Canoo sues major investor over sketchy share sales




> Electric vehicle startup Canoo has filed suit against one of its largest shareholders, demanding that the firm pay back more than $61 million in “short-swing profits.”
> 
> The short-swing profit rule states that company insiders, like large shareholders, must return profits realized from buying and selling securities within a period of six months. Canoo alleges that the firm, DD Global Holdings, wrongfully benefited from its recent share sales, according to a complaint filed in federal court in Manhattan on Monday. Bloomberg was the first to report.

----------


## gopokes88

This thing is going under. Cheap credit evaporated with the Fed raising rates and that's that

https://techcrunch.com/2022/05/10/ca...evs-to-market/

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> This thing is going under. Cheap credit evaporated with the Fed raising rates and that's that
> 
> https://techcrunch.com/2022/05/10/ca...evs-to-market/


It sounds like they will have $300 million in capital coming this week? 

"That PIPE investment appears to have not yet been realized. Canoo said during a call with investors Tuesday that it expected a $300 million private investment in public equity (PIPE) related to its merger to go through this week, and the company has filed a $300 million universal shelf. That $600 million is necessary to make it to start of production, Canoo CEO Tony Aquila said."

----------


## BG918

> It sounds like they will have $300 million in capital coming this week? 
> 
> "That PIPE investment appears to have not yet been realized. Canoo said during a call with investors Tuesday that it expected a $300 million private investment in public equity (PIPE) related to its merger to go through this week, and the company has filed a $300 million universal shelf. That $600 million is necessary to make it to start of production, Canoo CEO Tony Aquila said."


I don't think we know the extent of Wal-Mart's (and the Walton's) involvement but I imagine it's substantial

https://investorplace.com/2021/11/go...rest-in-canoo/

----------


## Pete

> I don't think we know the extent of Wal-Mart's (and the Walton's) involvement but I imagine it's substantial


The Waltons also invested $150 million in Theranos.


Canoo electric-vehicle startup had aimed to begin production this year but now says in an earnings report that there is 'substantial doubt' about its future.




> This was supposed to be the year that American startup Canoo would start building its podlike electric Lifestyle Vehicle, but it's now looking like the project may never get fully off the ground. In its first-quarter earnings report, Canoo acknowledged that it is running out of cash, writing that "there is substantial doubt about the Company's ability to continue as a going concern."





> Canoo had previously announced that it was aiming to build between 3000 and 6000 units in 2022, but we would be surprised if even one consumer-ready Canoo ever rolls off the production line.

----------


## Pete

Canoo CEO warns company could go out business before a single car is made in Pryor

----------


## Jake

Watch the state not even land the Panasonic plant.

At least Tulsa can hang their hats on the sweet tea factory.

----------


## gopokes88

It was a risk in an emerging space that *needs* cheap credit and has too many companies chasing too few profits. Was probably worth it, but the markets have changed significantly so far in 2022. 

Cheap credit dried up and many EV companies are going to be toast

This is happening everywhere. Ford sold a huge stake in Rivian. Tesla stock is way down. Lordstown is running out of cash.

----------


## ComeOnBenjals!

> Watch the state not even land the Panasonic plant.
> 
> At least Tulsa can hang their hats on the sweet tea factory.


No need for disparaging comments. 

Canoo was always a risk, hoping they can pull through but I have doubts. I think Panasonic is still a strong possibility.. one would think they would have already announced Kansas as the winner if that was the case.  Didn't help that our state government waited till the last minute to pass incentives.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Canoo CEO warns company could go out business before a single car is made in Pryor

----------


## Anonymous.

So basically it's almost time to buy when it is under a dollar.

----------


## BG918

> It was a risk in an emerging space that *needs* cheap credit and has too many companies chasing too few profits. Was probably worth it, but the markets have changed significantly so far in 2022. 
> 
> Cheap credit dried up and many EV companies are going to be toast
> 
> This is happening everywhere. Ford sold a huge stake in Rivian. Tesla stock is way down. Lordstown is running out of cash.


Tesla also was in danger of running out of cash in 2019.  I see Canoo either getting a last-minute infusion from Wal-Mart or GKFF, or both, or going bankrupt and restructuring with an infusion from Wal-Mart/GKFF

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/17/1...loyee-expenses

----------


## Jersey Boss

Tesla had product for sale at that point, not just protypes. Huge difference. Tesla was more than an idea.
Also Canoo has that open SEC investigation, probably a chilling prospect to throw more money at.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

I hope they can overcome this: https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/pr...6ed612deb.html

Remain positive. It’s a cool concept and I’ve been considering one myself though I’m leaning more towards the Hummer EV when I can afford it. They really look cool and I hope they can pull through this.

https://kfor.com/news/local/canoos-f...oma-lawmakers/

----------


## Pete

The reason I posted that Car & Driver article is because they are completely respected in the auto industry and have done a fantastic job of unbiasedly covering the scores of new electric vehicle companies and the EV models by established brands.  They have followed Canoo and everyone else from inception.

They have been my go-to source for reputable auto news for literally five decades.  And there is no way their editors and writers are going to risk their reputation (and possible lawsuits) by writing something as emphatic as "we would be surprised if even one consumer-ready Canoo ever rolls off the production line" without being about as sure as they can be.

Rather than trying to be optimistic, I'm like the family member who was just told by the lead doctor there is no hope.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

^^^ that was a Yahoo! article?

----------


## soonerguru

Here is a Reuters account. 

Seems hard to see any light here. Even with state incentives, $15 million isn't that much dough when you have the kind of burn rate Canoo probably does. Never a good sign when the company itself raises the specter of failure.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/e...235059036.html

----------


## Mississippi Blues

> ^^^ that was a Yahoo! article?


His post right before the Yahoo link has the Car & Driver article. Post #122 to be precise.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> His post right before the Yahoo link has the Car & Driver article. Post #122 to be precise.


Thank you I missed that. Pete is spot on about Car and Driver.

----------


## David

> The Waltons also invested $150 million in Theranos.
> 
> 
> Canoo electric-vehicle startup had aimed to begin production this year but now says in an earnings report that there is 'substantial doubt' about its future.


Based on the last few posts I had to go read it, and _wow_.

----------


## Pete

> Seems hard to see any light here. Even with state incentives, $15 million isn't that much dough when you have the kind of burn rate Canoo probably does. Never a good sign when the company itself raises the specter of failure.


Canoo said they burned through $120 million in the first quarter.

In terms of the wording, it's called a "going concern warning" and it's legally required.  It's basically a huge red flag for future investors and banks which obviously makes it much more difficult to raise funds.

It's to stop companies like Theranos from painting a rosy picture while soliciting more funding, when in fact they are in dire financial straights.




> A going concern warning is issued by a company's management or auditors — or both — when they believe that within the upcoming 12 months from the date of the report "it is probable" the company will not have the liquidity to pay its obligations as they come due, or will violate a debt covenant.

----------


## shawnw

it's hard to mentally conceptualize what one could even spend $120M on without having anything to show for it.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

I was about to make that comment. It shows how little I know about economics. I was just reading an article yesterday about how Uber still isn’t profitable and spent/burned through/lost 20+ billion dollars since 2017. It’s mind boggling to me.

----------


## shartel_ave

https://techcrunch.com/2022/05/10/ca...evs-to-market/

----------


## gopokes88

> I was about to make that comment. It shows how little I know about economics. I was just reading an article yesterday about how Uber still isn’t profitable and spent/burned through/lost 20+ billion dollars since 2017. It’s mind boggling to me.


Which they could do because the Fed had the easy money high liquidity punch bowl out.

The party is over. The Fed put the punch away.

Canoo is toast and will be one of many.

----------


## shavethewhales

> Canoo said they burned through $120 million in the first quarter.
> 
> In terms of the wording, it's called a "going concern warning" and it's legally required.  It's basically a huge red flag for future investors and banks which obviously makes it much more difficult to raise funds.
> 
> It's to stop companies like Theranos from painting a rosy picture while soliciting more funding, when in fact they are in dire financial straights.


Exactly, going concerns are common statements in the financial disclosures of companies that rely on debt or equity issuance to survive until they can make a profit. 

The big picture here is still concerning. Canoo is spending a ton of money without much to show for it yet. They are hemorrhaging senior staff and changing plans all the time. Now it seems they are focused on some sort of Arkansas plant to get production started this year. Supposedly they have a cash runway of $600 million to get them to production, but then how much revenue are they really going to make by end of year? A few thousand units isn't a huge amount of revenue considering the costs involved, and it seems doubtful they'll really produce at least 3 thousand units this year like they hoped. 

And where did that $120 million go? I haven't read through their financial statements yet, but hopefully most of that was one-time equipment expenditures for their plants. 

More info here on their funding availability and production plans:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...ncial-trouble/

----------


## Bellaboo

> it's hard to mentally conceptualize what one could even spend $120M on without having anything to show for it.


Probably some bonus pay passed around.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> The reason I posted that Car & Driver article is because they are completely respected in the auto industry and have done a fantastic job of unbiasedly covering the scores of new electric vehicle companies and the EV models by established brands.  They have followed Canoo and everyone else from inception.
> 
> They have been my go-to source for reputable auto news for literally five decades.  And there is no way their editors and writers are going to risk their reputation (and possible lawsuits) by writing something as emphatic as "we would be surprised if even one consumer-ready Canoo ever rolls off the production line" without being about as sure as they can be.
> 
> Rather than trying to be optimistic, I'm like the family member who was just told by the lead doctor there is no hope.


Have to give you credit. You called it from the beginning. Hopefully it still works out but definitely disappointing.

----------


## Pete

> Have to give you credit. You called it from the beginning. Hopefully it still works out but definitely disappointing.


I just follow this stuff very closely and have always deeply loved cars and the auto industry.

Car and Driver does a fantastic job of covering the business side of all these upstarts and they have a bunch of really smart and well-informed writers.  Motor Trend and CNET Roadshow as well, just to a lesser extent.

(A bit of disclosure:  My dad was a regional sales manager for a big periodical distribution company, so we received advance copies of almost all magazines.  I got hooked on car mags around age 10.)


Of course I hope things work out for Canoo; despite the Oklahoma connection you just want to see people who take big risks rewarded.  But you also have to educate yourself on the realities.

----------


## gopokes88

> Exactly, going concerns are common statements in the financial disclosures of companies that rely on debt or equity issuance to survive until they can make a profit. 
> 
> The big picture here is still concerning. Canoo is spending a ton of money without much to show for it yet. They are hemorrhaging senior staff and changing plans all the time. Now it seems they are focused on some sort of Arkansas plant to get production started this year. Supposedly they have a cash runway of $600 million to get them to production, but then how much revenue are they really going to make by end of year? A few thousand units isn't a huge amount of revenue considering the costs involved, and it seems doubtful they'll really produce at least 3 thousand units this year like they hoped. 
> 
> And where did that $120 million go? I haven't read through their financial statements yet, but hopefully most of that was one-time equipment expenditures for their plants. 
> 
> More info here on their funding availability and production plans:
> https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...ncial-trouble/


You have any idea how hard it is to engineer a car from scratch?

----------


## BG918

Apple rumored to be interested in acquiring Canoo

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-....619827.0.html

----------


## David

Makes sense, both names have five letters. It's a clear match.

----------


## jedicurt

> Apple rumored to be interested in acquiring Canoo
> 
> https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-....619827.0.html


probably means they just move the engineers to their other facilities and still means nothing gets built in Oklahoma.   hope i'm wrong, but that is how i imagine it working out

EDIT: lol read the article after i posted. and it pretty much says the same thing i did, that Apple probably wants to do it to just get more tech and engineers for it's existing work

----------


## shawnw

So would Apple get the incentives the state has promised Canoo or would an acquisition invalidate that?

----------


## BG918

> probably means they just move the engineers to their other facilities and still means nothing gets built in Oklahoma.   hope i'm wrong, but that is how i imagine it working out
> 
> EDIT: lol read the article after i posted. and it pretty much says the same thing i did, that Apple probably wants to do it to just get more tech and engineers for it's existing work


That's a distinct possibility.  They also could utilize the Pryor manufacturing plant (where sitework has already started) to get their cars to market faster, in addition to tapping into the numerous incentives offered.  IF Panasonic builds their battery plant at Mid-America it would make sense to locate the manufacturing nearby.

----------


## shavethewhales

I definitely wouldn't assume that Apple would want to build those ugly canoo cars, but if they did want to start production on something in the near future I'd hope that means OK has an in with them. Obviously OK is willing to do major deals, and companies see the value in the MidAmerican Industrial Park area. Having Apple and Panasonic working in the area would be huge. Even just one of those becoming reality would be huge.

----------


## shawnw

https://inhabitat.com/nasa-contracts...is-astronauts/

----------


## shartel_ave

> I definitely wouldn't assume that Apple would want to build those ugly canoo cars, but if they did want to start production on something in the near future I'd hope that means OK has an in with them. Obviously OK is willing to do major deals, and companies see the value in the MidAmerican Industrial Park area. Having Apple and Panasonic working in the area would be huge. Even just one of those becoming reality would be huge.


I love the way those vehicles look!

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> I love the way those vehicles look!


I do too.

----------


## Jeremy Martin

https://jalopnik.com/canoo-ceo-repor...ted-1848941486

----------


## LocoAko

https://tulsaworld.com/business/loca...28edd01aa.html

----------


## formerly405Tulsan

There is life! Walmart agrees to buy 4,500 of their vans. 

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/07/12/...k-jumping.html

----------


## BG918

> There is life! Walmart agrees to buy 4,500 of their vans. 
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/07/12/...k-jumping.html


Makes sense with the HQ move to Bentonville.  Whatever it takes to keep them afloat and get the Oklahoma plant up and running.

----------


## BG918

> There is life! Walmart agrees to buy 4,500 of their vans. 
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/07/12/...k-jumping.html


Makes sense with the HQ move to Bentonville.  Whatever it takes to keep them afloat and get the Oklahoma plant up and running.

----------


## gopokes88

Great news for them. I was wrong, they can avoid bankruptcy now. 

Exactly what they needed.

----------


## PhiAlpha

If Walmart is getting into local delivery, this was a solid move for them especially if gas prices remain high. 

Hopefully Canoo can get more commitments like this and the NASA deal (obviously the Walmart one is much more important). If they can, they’ll be in good shape to at least get up and running and get there product to market.

----------


## Jersey Boss

Apparently Wally made some conditions as well as safe guards with this purchase that was revealed yesterday.

https://electrek.co/2022/07/13/canoo-walmart-stock/
_July 13 update: Upon inspection of Canoo’s official 8-K filing with the SEC, there is some fine print we were unaware of when news of the purchase agreement went live yesterday. According to the terms of the EV purchase agreement, a Warrant Issuance Agreement was also included, giving Walmart the option to exercise the purchase of of 61,160,011 shares of fully paid and non-assessable shares of the Canoo’s common stock at a price of $2.15 per share. Per the filing:

The Warrant has a term of ten years and is vested immediately with respect to 15,290,003 shares of Common Stock. Thereafter, subject to the stockholder approval described below, if applicable, the Warrant will vest quarterly in amounts proportionate with the net revenue realized by the Company and its affiliates from transactions with Walmart or its affiliates under the EV Fleet Purchase Agreement or enabled by any other agreement between the Company and Walmart, and any net revenue attributable to any products or services offered by Walmart or its affiliates related to the Company or its affiliates, until such net revenue equals $300 million, at which time the Warrant will have vested fully.

Under the Warrant Agreement, the Company shall, as promptly as reasonably practicable following the date of the Warrant Agreement and, in any event, no later than the Company’s 2023 annual meeting of stockholders, convene and hold a meeting of stockholders to consider and vote on the issuance of the Warrant in respect of any shares of Common Stock in excess of 53,852,492 shares (which represents more than 20% of the Company’s outstanding Common Stock as of the date of the Warrant Agreement), pursuant to the applicable rules of the NASDAQ Global Select Market. In the event that stockholder approval is not obtained, in lieu of any shares which would have been issued to Walmart, the Company is required to pay to Walmart an amount in cash equal to the product of: (i) the excess of (x) the 30-day volume weighted average price per share as of the day immediately preceding the applicable exercise date and (y) the exercise price, times (ii) the number of shares that would have been issued at such applicable exercise date if stockholder approval had been obtained.

Should it exercise its warrants, Walmart can receive common stock equal to 20% of the company, a possible hint that Canoo was running out of options when it made the deal. Neither company has offered a comment on this agreement, nor has Walmart exercised its warranted shares yet.

We also noticed that under the terms of the purchase agreement with Walmart, Canoo must refrain from any business whatsoever with Amazon or its subsidiaries. Understandable. See below:

Under the EV Fleet Purchase Agreement, the Company has agreed that, for the duration of the agreement, it will not enter into any agreement for any services involving the design, manufacture, consult, advice, lease, or sale of EVs to, or issue any equity, equity-linked or debt securities of any type, or enter into any agreement for the purpose of transferring control of the Company to, Amazon.com, Inc., its subsidiaries, or affiliates._

----------


## David

I'd be much more optimistic about Canoo being anything other than vaporware if Walmart strong-arms them into being their own personal electric vehicle manufacturer, which rather looks like what is happening.

----------


## Pete

It sounds like Walmart can easily take them over if they don't like the way things are going.

This is probably the best development that could be hoped for considering the company's recent parade of bad news.

----------


## Midtowner

Back in college, I drove a Honda Element. The Canoo car designs are reminiscent of what I liked about that car. And if they keep their pricepoint around $35K and can do it profitably, they're going to be very successful and I'll likely be a customer.

----------


## formerly405Tulsan

More news. Canoo to make one vehicle for the US army. Better than zero I guess!

https://electrek.co/2022/07/14/canoo-us-army/amp/

----------


## Jersey Boss

This is not a good look going forward.
Reported yesterday on Tulsa 6.
The company lost millions in 2nd q

https://www.newson6.com/story/62f1d3...or-2nd-quarter

----------


## shavethewhales

^Once again though, they haven't made it to the revenue generating stage yet. They are going to be showing losses for a long time. This is "normal" for this kind of company during the start up stage. Uber still hasn't posted a profit yet to my knowledge. Amazon took a long time to post profits, IIRC. 

That's not to say they aren't on shaky ground, as most startups of this nature run out of money before they can start generating serious revenue. It's just that it's not as bad a "look" as you might think. If they can get any amount of production going this year, they can limp forward.

----------


## Midtowner

> ^Once again though, they haven't made it to the revenue generating stage yet. They are going to be showing losses for a long time. This is "normal" for this kind of company during the start up stage. Uber still hasn't posted a profit yet to my knowledge. Amazon took a long time to post profits, IIRC. 
> 
> That's not to say they aren't on shaky ground, as most startups of this nature run out of money before they can start generating serious revenue. It's just that it's not as bad a "look" as you might think. If they can get any amount of production going this year, they can limp forward.


They should be fine. Especially with the investment by Wal-Mart and their fleet committments once they are producing vehicles. 

Also, if you've looked at some of their vehicles, if their suggested price remains the same, they are some ridiculously utilitarian vehicles with a ton of cool uses. Their pickup truck is pretty awesome.

----------


## shawnw

So it's not weird that they are outsourcing the build of the promised vehicles for walmart? I have no idea, legit question.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> They should be fine. Especially with the investment by Wal-Mart and their fleet committments once they are producing vehicles. 
> 
> Also, if you've looked at some of their vehicles, if their suggested price remains the same, they are some ridiculously utilitarian vehicles with a ton of cool uses. Their pickup truck is pretty awesome.


initially I thought they were pretty ugly but I’ll admit they're growing on me. Perfect cars for a local delivery fleets like Walmart seems to want to use them for.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> So it's not weird that they are outsourcing the build of the promised vehicles for walmart? I have no idea, legit question.


Would seem to make sense if they don’t have a plant up and running yet.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> ^Once again though, they haven't made it to the revenue generating stage yet. They are going to be showing losses for a long time. This is "normal" for this kind of company during the start up stage. Uber still hasn't posted a profit yet to my knowledge. Amazon took a long time to post profits, IIRC. 
> 
> That's not to say they aren't on shaky ground, as most startups of this nature run out of money before they can start generating serious revenue. It's just that it's not as bad a "look" as you might think. If they can get any amount of production going this year, they can limp forward.


Thanks.

----------


## BG918

They recently showcased some of their vehicle prototypes at the State Capitol in OKC

----------


## Jersey Boss

Hitting the road.
Canoo LDVs take flight for Walmart InHome advanced deliveries
https://electrek.co/2022/08/23/canoo...me-deliveries/

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## Plutonic Panda

Some not so good news again: https://fortune.com/2022/08/29/canoo...gest-retailer/

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## Jeremy Martin

The Canoo shares are trading for around $3.25 right now.  I purchased some with a little bit of fun I have for stuff like this.   It could all go to sh!t or in a few years take off like Tesla, who knows?

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## Anonymous.

> The Canoo shares are trading for around $3.25 right now.  I purchased some with a little bit of fun I have for stuff like this.   It could all go to sh!t or in a few years take off like Tesla, who knows?


Yes they need to raise capital by diluting shares, but they don't have the meme-hype and bull market that Tesla took advantage of. Tesla stock is a unicorn.

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## chssooner

Are any of you expecting them to make money so early, without major production facilities? Most start ups lose money for years before being profitable.

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## TheTravellers

> Are any of you expecting them to make money so early, without major production facilities? Most start ups lose money for years before being profitable.


There's a lot more than not having production facilities up and running, according to that article.

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## chssooner

> There's a lot more than not having production facilities up and running, according to that article.


Hasn't yet generated any revenue. In the first paragraph. Like I said. Most start-ups make no money for a few years. How old is Canoo (I plead ignorance on that)?

If less than 5 years for an EV start-up that doesn't have Musk being a shiny face for them, it's fair for them to not have any revenue. 

I'm not bashing, I just know, as an accountant, that revenue means very little for start-ups early in their start.

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## TheTravellers

> Hasn't yet generated any revenue. In the first paragraph. Like I said. Most start-ups make no money for a few years. How old is Canoo (I plead ignorance on that)?
> 
> If less than 5 years for an EV start-up that doesn't have Musk being a shiny face for them, it's fair for them to not have any revenue. 
> 
> I'm not bashing, I just know, as an accountant, that revenue means very little for start-ups early in their start.


Canoo was founded in 2017.   :Smiley122:   You're still talking about the production facilities, but I'm talking about the massive C-suite changes, the huge amounts that the CEO (or whatever he is, President, whatever) has racked up for travel, etc., the general environment, .....

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## Plutonic Panda

I guess decent news for the company as it’s somewhat of a sign moving forward but it looks like the Walmart Canoo’s won’t be built at the Oklahoma site.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ns-outsourcing

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## shawnw

Really makes you want them to succeed

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## Jersey Boss

> I guess decent news for the company as its somewhat of a sign moving forward but it looks like the Walmart Canoos wont be built at the Oklahoma site.
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ns-outsourcing


It is troubling that the head of manufacturing is out. This outfit seems to have a hard time retaining talent.

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## FighttheGoodFight

One Canoo in the wild!

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## Jeremy Martin

Some good news, 
https://electrek.co/2022/10/11/canoo...f-are-binding/

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## Plutonic Panda

Another Teslarati article claiming Canoo is moving forward on this plane for Oklahoma operations starting with battery production:




> ByJoey KlenderPosted on November 2, 2022
> Canoo announced on Wednesday that it would build electric vehicle battery modules at a renovated facility in the MidAmerica Industrial Park in Pryor, Oklahoma.
> 
> The new facility is expected to expand Canoo’s manufacturing and employment footprint in the region as it continues to ramp production of its electric vehicles. The factory will be capable of approximately 320 MWh of battery module capacity, or .320 GWh.
> 
> The battery facility will be located in the same complex as Canoo’s MegaMicro Factory, which will include a paint shop, body shop, and general assembly plant when it is finished.


- https://www.teslarati.com/canoo-batt...tion-oklahoma/

It sure would be nice if the city of Tulsa could find a way to lure them to move their HQ there but given their new relationship with Walmart I doubt that is even a remote possibility.

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## DowntownMan

https://www.press.canoo.com/press-re...-oklahoma-city

Canoo to Oklahoma City!??

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## David

From their press release:




> Strategically located with easy access to road and rail, the facility will produce Canoo’s LDV and LV vehicles for delivery to customers in 2023.
> 
> ----
> 
> Canoo considered multiple potential sites before selecting the location in Oklahoma City. An existing commercial site with more than 630,000 square feet of move-in ready space and significant room for further expansion, the facility will be adapted for Canoo and outfitted to accommodate a full vehicle assembly line with state-of-the-art robotics, a paint shop and upfitting center. As with Canoo’s other facilities in Pryor Oklahoma, the Vehicle Manufacturing Facility will be powered with clean energy. When fully renovated, the Facility will align with Canoo’s vision for sustainable, nature-centric campuses.




Where in OKC might this be?

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## Pete

It will be the old Terex property near I-40 and Morgan Road:

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## Bowser214

Wow This is awesome for OKC!

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## HangryHippo

I must’ve completely missed that Terex was no longer active there…?  When did that happen?

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## Pete

> I must’ve completely missed that Terex was no longer active there…?  When did that happen?


Earlier this year; moved to Mexico:

https://news.conexpoconagg.com/news/...o/3415.article

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## HangryHippo

> Earlier this year; moved to Mexico:
> 
> https://news.conexpoconagg.com/news/...o/3415.article


Had no idea.  Thanks, Pete!

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## ChrisHayes

> I must’ve completely missed that Terex was no longer active there…?  When did that happen?


I noticed that there didn't appear to be much activity at Terex, but I didn't know they closed up shop. I'm guessing Canoo is going to tear down the Terex plant and build a new facility? I sure hope so, as the Terex plant is very dated looking. Now, if only the Xerox plant would be repurposed.

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## Pete

> I noticed that there didn't appear to be much activity at Terex, but I didn't know they closed up shop. I'm guessing Canoo is going to tear down the Terex plant and build a new facility? I sure hope so, as the Terex plant is very dated looking. Now, if only the Xerox plant would be repurposed.


No.

The press release says they will be using the existing 635,000 SF facility with the opportunity for future expansion.

The rendering is of the spruced-up existing building.

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## DowntownMan

> No.
> 
> The press release says they will be using the existing 635,000 SF facility with the opportunity for future expansion.
> 
> The rendering is of the spruced-up existing building.


Once you see it on map you can see its the exact building. Im surprised I didnt guess that facility when I saw the press release

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## Plutonic Panda

So what does this mean for Mid-America industrial Park? I know they announced a battery manufacturing plant, but it didn’t look very big. I really wish they would’ve put their HQ in downtown Tulsa instead of Bentonville. Have they officially establish their headquarters yet? I doubt they do that though because of Walmart. 

At any rate, great news for OKC. Now I just hope Mid-America industrial Park can land the second Panasonic plant.

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## Jake

Voters in Mayes county voted against the TIF so who knows what’ll happen with Panasonic. Doubt it happens but I hope I’m wrong.

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## Plutonic Panda

> Voters in Mayes county voted against the TIF so who knows what’ll happen with Panasonic. Doubt it happens but I hope I’m wrong.


That sucks. I read on the Tulsa Now forum that the county could simply redraw the TIF district. Is that possible?

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## HangryHippo

> Voters in Mayes county voted against the TIF so who knows what’ll happen with Panasonic. Doubt it happens but I hope I’m wrong.


Seems short-sighted, but whatever.  After that legislator’s comments about having “enough business” and “wanting to remain small”, it doesn’t appear they’re anxious for growth.

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## Plutonic Panda

Maybe OKC could lure them. That’d put them even closer to Texas or better yet somewhere around Ardmore or Thackerville.

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## Jake

> Seems short-sighted, but whatever.  After that legislator’s comments about having “enough business” and “wanting to remain small”, it doesn’t appear they’re anxious for growth.


Ironic seeing how Pryor/Mayes county would be a completely dying husk without large companies like Google doing business there.

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## formerly405Tulsan

> Voters in Mayes county voted against the TIF so who knows whatll happen with Panasonic. Doubt it happens but I hope Im wrong.


Where are you seeing this? Everything I've seen shows it was approved by a panel months ago. 


https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/ma...4a7049be7.html

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## formerly405Tulsan

From the OKC press release it seems like the bulk of their Oklahoma investment is still in Mid America. 





> In addition to Canoo’s Oklahoma City Vehicle Manufacturing Facility, the company recently announced a Battery Module Manufacturing Facility and its MegaMicro Factory, a 400-acre campus at MidAmerica Industrial Park, a 9,000-acre industrial complex strategically located near some of the nation’s most highly traveled thoroughfares. The MegaMicro Factory will include a full commercialization facility with a paint, body shop and general assembly plant. It will be a significant investment in the state and will employ more than 2,000 when fully operational.

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## formerly405Tulsan

Looks like it was prop 2, and only got 36% of the vote. YEESH

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## BG918

Canoo had always planned for a presence in both Tulsa and OKC in addition to their plant in Pryor and HQ in Bentonville.  The addition of a smaller plant in OKC is new though, and likely because the Terex property was available.

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## fortpatches

> I really wish they would’ve put their HQ in downtown Tulsa instead of Bentonville. Have they officially establish their headquarters yet? I doubt they do that though because of Walmart.


Walmart does (did?) require that companies they do business with have a location in NWA. There are entire building complexes setup to provide a NWA address for companies. Basically providing just a room, mailbox, and phone. Similar to a coworking space. One of the offices I rented there reminded me of a motel with 100+ small rooms, each with some company name on the door.

Plus, because of Walmart, JB Hunt, Tyson, etc. in NWA, they actually do have quite a bit of comp sci / engineering talent in the region.

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## TheTravellers

> Walmart does (did?) require that companies they do business with have a location in NWA. There are entire building complexes setup to provide a NWA address for companies. Basically providing just a room, mailbox, and phone. Similar to a coworking space. One of the offices I rented there reminded me of a motel with 100+ small rooms, each with some company name on the door.
> 
> Plus, because of Walmart, JB Hunt, Tyson, etc. in NWA, they actually do have quite a bit of comp sci / engineering talent in the region.


So all the Chinese suppliers to Wal-mart have one of those rooms?

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## fortpatches

Usually those are just suppliers to a US counterpart company that then contracts with Walmart. So they may have an LLC whose function is basically just to be on paper in NWA. For what Walmart directly procures, I am not sure.

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