# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Moore >  New Central Park for Moore

## Jesseda

Proposed Central Moore Park G.O. Bond Project List | City of Moore 60 acre central park

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## mcca7596

Looks like 50% parking.

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## Jesseda

you just looking at one picture the park will extend all the way from 4th street to 19th street, one mile in length

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## Martin

interesting... seems awfully close to the rail lines, though. -M

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## Jesseda

I think there is even plans for amtrak to stop at the park as well, they are putting a depot at the park City of Moore - Proposed Central Moore Park - YouTube

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## Jesseda

the park setting it going to be further south just past the farmers market pavilions there has to be parking people lol, plus i think all that stuff is a lot better then what other cities have been planning. Moore is getting a couple NEW parks added to its city.

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## bille

> you just looking at one picture the park will extend all the way from 4th street to 19th street, one mile in length


Well, almost to 19th st.  Living in Moore I've been wondering what was to become of all that farm land that stretched on that side of the tracks.  As soon as I heard about the new park I knew that was the only central location in Moore where it could happen.



> interesting... seems awfully close to the rail lines, though. -M


The land runs right up to and along the tracks so yes, you're correct.  

The artist rendering does look like it has a lot of parking but knowing how parking sucks at most of the other parks I'm ok with there being 'extra'.  Per the ammenities listed there will be a lot included at this one location.  I'm excited to see how it all actually pans out of course.  With this plan going forward ten years surely things will change, perhaps a lot, by the time everything is done.

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## Jesseda

Its going to be just south of downtown. First its new community center, new city swimming pool, plus small city waterpark, amplitheater, new farmers market and city event entertainment area 2 mile walking trail, large pond, lol what more should a small city like ours need. SOME people I guess will never be happy or some people get jealous of moore progressing.

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## MDot

> Well, no actually.  Not usually.  Parks are neighborhood assets.  They should be accessible to their neighborhood.  You don't drive to parks.  Well wait, you drive to _amusement_ parks.  But not municipal parks and certainly none that use the phrasing "central park".  
> 
> Words mean less today. You can build a parking lot with trees and call it a central park.  Just like you can build  a Wal-Mart shopping complex and call it a Town Center.  
> 
> I have never been to a central park with a massive parking lot like that.  It is a beautiful parking lot though. I'll give them that.


Nailed it.

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## bille

Over the next five years, not ten...not sure why I was thinking 10 years.

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## Dubya61

It looks like a nice suburban plan for land that otherwise wasn't going to see much use right away.  It's a shame that the link only shows the parking lot.

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## Roger S

> Well, no actually.  Not usually.  Parks are neighborhood assets.  They should be accessible to their neighborhood.  You don't drive to parks.  Well wait, you drive to _amusement_ parks.  But not municipal parks and certainly none that use the phrasing "central park".  
> 
> Words mean less today. You can build a parking lot with trees and call it a central park.  Just like you can build  a Wal-Mart shopping complex and call it a Town Center.  
> 
> I have never been to a central park with a massive parking lot like that.  It is a beautiful parking lot though. I'll give them that.


I "don't" drive to parks? So when I drive to Earlywine Park to use the jogging trail or to South Lakes Park to take advantage of the "Close to Home" fishing program. What did I drive to? I suppose one could say I am driving to South Lakes to be amused but my drive to Earlywine is not for recreational purposes.

I think you are correct in that words mean less today. Perhaps I "should not" drive to a park but I do. 

And why is it called a park in the first place if none of us are driving there? Shouldn't it be called a walk?  :Wink: 

As a new member of the Moore community I'm happy to see this land being developed as a, well whatever it's going to be called, and I hope it has a nice walking/jogging trail. So I don't have to drive all the way to Earlywine.

As inconsiderate and irresponsible as drivers are these days I do not feel safe walking/jogging or riding my bike along public streets. Even the ones designated as bike routes.

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## Just the facts

I wonder how many parents are going to let their kids ride their bike to this park.

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## BoulderSooner

> I wonder how many parents are going to let their kids ride their bike to this park.


do parents let their kids ride their bikes anywhere??

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## soonermike

First of all, it isnt called Central Park, it is the Central Moore Park, meaning it is the park at or near the center of Moore. Second, it isn't designed to be a neighborhood park, but a destination for the whole community. With the community center, farmer's market, ampitheater, and aquatic center all staged in this location, it's silly to not plan for adequate parking. As it is, many people stay away from activities at Buck Thomas park because of the lack of parking - an issue also to be addressed under a seperate question on the ballot November 6. My only concern is the proximity to the railroad tracks and trains running so close to a play area for children. Also, the noise of a train passing will cause performances in the ampitheater to have to pause, which could be awkward. Overall though, I'm glad to see the city try and do something to improve quality of life to our community.

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## Roger S

> do parents let their kids ride their bikes anywhere??


Only the ones that are trying to correct the harm they've done to the gene pool.

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## mcca7596

> First of all, it isnt called Central Park, it is the Central Moore Park, meaning it is the park at or near the center of Moore. Second, it isn't designed to be a neighborhood park, but a destination for the whole community. With the community center, farmer's market, ampitheater, and aquatic center all staged in this location, it's silly to not plan for adequate parking. As it is, many people stay away from activities at Buck Thomas park because of the lack of parking - an issue also to be addressed under a seperate question on the ballot November 6. My only concern is the proximity to the railroad tracks and trains running so close to a play area for children. Also, the noise of a train passing will cause performances in the ampitheater to have to pause, which could be awkward. Overall though, I'm glad to see the city try and do something to improve quality of life to our community.


Oklahoma City's Central park will be a destination for the whole metro and I guarantee you there will be nothing other than streetside parking for it. Weird how Moore's will need so much just to accommodate visitors from within its borders.

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## soonermike

I'm sure there will be plenty of surface parking lots within a reasonable walking distance of the Central park in OKC; Moore doesn't have that option. There is nowhere for streetside parking on the roads surrounding this area unless you're going to widen 4th, 19th, or Broadway for the sole purpose of adding parking on busy streets. A parking area is the logical way to go on this. Face it, this is Moore - the epitome of suburb living.

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## soonermike

I agree with both of your thoughts Sid. It would be better to have a few small parking lots than one humongous asphalt jungle. I am hoping that the plans include some type of wall along the eastern edge for noise and safety reasons.

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## G.Walker

I live in Moore, and the City of Moore must have been reading my mind. My wife and I were just talking the other day that we hated driving all the way to Earlywine Park for recreational activities, as Moore does not have a recreation campus and it needed one desperately, being that Earlywine Park/YMCA was developed to serve all of Moore and south Oklahoma City, so its very crowded. 

With that being said, associated parking is needed to support aquatic center and community/fitness center. The renderings look like it will be an Earlywine Park #2, which is fine by me, as Earlywine Park is a great place to go. I wonder if the YMCA will be the operator of the community/fitness center, hope so!

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## G.Walker

Moreover, I don't know why people get worked up over conceptual renderings. This was clearly mocked up for promotional and voting purposes, its not even a done deal, nor has a architect been chosen. I am sure if the G.O. Bond passes, and architect hired, final plans will be totally different.

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## jn1780

> Moreover, I don't know why people get worked up over conceptual renderings. This was clearly mocked up for promotional and voting purposes, its not even a done deal, nor has a architect been chosen. I am sure if the G.O. Bond passes, and architect hired, final plans will be totally different.


True, this whole thread is arguing about a rendering that was just thrown together. The parking was way over done in the rendering.  Its about three times the amount at Earlywine. Its largest parking lot is for the YMCA.

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## Just the facts

Nothing says health and fitness like driving to a walking path.

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## s00nr1

This is nothing short of a positive development for Moore on an empty plot of land in the central part of town. Like a previous poster said some people will never be satisfied.

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## MDot

> ...Like a previous poster said some people will never be satisfied...


I don't have a huge issue with this development and it's too early to even complain much about it as G. Walker pointed out but it drives me nuts when people say things like "some people will never be satisfied" yet those same people are the one's that suggest things and believe in those things that can -- and will -- better a community. You won't get any true changes or progress if you're satisfied with every proposal or development that takes place on a vacant piece of land. 

I'm not picking on this development, but it's no secret that all you have to do in Oklahoma is put make-up on a pig and it's a date (minus a few recent projects). I'm also not picking on you s00nr1 or Jesseda, just trying to make a point.

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## Snowman

The 'Historic Depot Museum' caught my attention, since there neither seems to be an existing depot there to be historic, nor is there a line item for one to be built. Do they have one they are relocating or is it going to be a recreation of a depot?

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## Easy180

This should pass pretty easily and be a great addition to our city

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## Jesseda

> The 'Historic Depot Museum' caught my attention, since there neither seems to be an existing depot there to be historic, nor is there a line item for one to be built. Do they have one they are relocating or is it going to be a recreation of a depot?


It was written somewhere that said the historic depot that is going to be relocated to this park was one of the first structures in moore. Moore had a depot that was located on what is now shields blvd. I think they have plans to move the 100 plus year old depot to this park. I know they have it somewhere in moore right now that is out of the public eye, I just do not know exactly where it is.

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## Just the facts

> ... but it drives me nuts when people say things like "some people will never be satisfied" yet those same people are the one's that suggest things and believe in those things that can -- and will -- better a community. You won't get any true changes or progress if you're satisfied with every proposal or development that takes place on a vacant piece of land.


This!  It isn't like the new urbanist on OKCTalk don't offer ideas or suggestions to improve what is being proposed.

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## s00nr1

> I don't have a huge issue with this development and it's too early to even complain much about it as G. Walker pointed out but it drives me nuts when people say things like "some people will never be satisfied" yet those same people are the one's that suggest things and believe in those things that can -- and will -- better a community. You won't get any true changes or progress if you're satisfied with every proposal or development that takes place on a vacant piece of land. 
> 
> I'm not picking on this development, but it's no secret that all you have to do in Oklahoma is put make-up on a pig and it's a date (minus a few recent projects). I'm also not picking on you s00nr1 or Jesseda, just trying to make a point.



There is a difference between being satisfied with every proposal and being outspoken against all of them. The point of me saying "some people will never be satisfied" was to say that some people will always find something to bitch about regardless of a proposal's overall positive impact to the community. Not pointing any fingers but there are several of these type of posters here. And to call this "putting make-up on a pig" is quite the stretch. Drive by the property in its current state (as I do from my home on SE 4th to work every day) and then look at this proposal and compare the two.

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## bille

> It was written somewhere that said the historic depot that is going to be relocated to this park was one of the first structures in moore. Moore had a depot that was located on what is now shields blvd. I think they have plans to move the 100 plus year old depot to this park. I know they have it somewhere in moore right now that is out of the public eye, I just do not know exactly where it is.


Yep.  Actually before this massive parks project got started the plan was to put it back at it's original location on Main St after the new police station is built and that may very well happen too, who knows at this point.


> There is a difference between being satisfied with every proposal and being outspoken against all of them. The point of me saying "some people will never be satisfied" was to say that some people will always find something to bitch about regardless of a proposal's overall positive impact to the community. Not pointing any fingers but there are several of these type of posters here. And to call this "putting make-up on a pig" is quite the stretch. Drive by the property in its current state (as I do from my home on SE 4th to work every day) and then look at this proposal and compare the two.


Don't let the haters on FB know there's talk about Moore development happening somewhere they can't come poopoo all over it and bring up a bunch of unrelated stuff.  Most of them live in Moore and constantly complain about how crappy of a job the council members/Mayor/etc. are doing.  I've lived in Moore my whole life and I think those folks are doing a great job.

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## Dubya61

> Nothing says health and fitness like driving to a walking path.


There's nothing healthy or fit about lying in a ditch after being hit by a car.

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## MDot

> There is a difference between being satisfied with every proposal and being outspoken against all of them. The point of me saying "some people will never be satisfied" was to say that some people will always find something to bitch about regardless of a proposal's overall positive impact to the community. Not pointing any fingers but there are several of these type of posters here. And to call this "putting make-up on a pig" is quite the stretch. Drive by the property in its current state (as I do from my home on SE 4th to work every day) and then look at this proposal and compare the two.


Not disagreeing that people will always complain and there are those type's of posters on here that post regularly. And I guess you completely overlooked the part where I specifically said "I'm not picking on this development" right before the "make-up on a pig" comment; I even started out by saying "I don't have a huge problem with this development". Lord, read what I said before going on the defensive like that.

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## Jesseda

> There's nothing healthy or fit about lying in a ditch after being hit by a car.


I like you response....... oh and I was thinking. Almost (cant think of one that doesnt) Every park has a parking area here in Oklahoma. This isnt downtown chicago or new york city this is Moore Oklahoma, I can kinda understand having a large park with little amount of parking space in a downtown Oklahoma City that is ten times larger then moore, but having a 60 acre park that has the city pool,city water park community center, gym, amplitheater,farmers market, museum,, large open field south of where the amphitheater and pond etc and not have any parking for this is kind of a stupid planning. Im glad the city is adding enough parking for all these things

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## Just the facts

> There's nothing healthy or fit about lying in a ditch after being hit by a car.


I agree, that is why they would be better served spending their time, money, and effort making Moore walkable, not creating yet another place people have to drive to.  That way people who can't drive, for any number of reasons, could also benefit.

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## Dubya61

> I agree, that is why they would be better served spending their time, money, and effort making Moore walkable, not creating yet another place people have to drive to.  That way people who can't drive, for any number of reasons, could also benefit.


Unless you're starting from scratch, though, making Moore more urban and walkable is something done a block or quarter section at at time.  For the time being, this park makes good use of land that otherwise wasn't benefiting anybody.  Perhaps the creation of the park will encourage someone to develop / redevelop surrounding blocks in a more urban style that better benefits the people and coffers of Moore.  For now, this is a good thing for Moore.

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## Just the facts

> Unless you're starting from scratch, though, making Moore more urban and walkable is something done a block or quarter section at at time.


Once again I agree.  They should start now.  I would start at Main and Broadway and work my way out one block at a time.  The depot should go at Main and the railroad so it could actually be used as a train depot, or better yet, as a multi-modal station for a future walkable downtown Moore.

At one time Moore must have had a plan to rebuild downtown because they have a space for updates on their web site.  I wonder what happened to the plan.

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## Stew

This looks like a nice 'get' for Moore.

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## s00nr1

> Not disagreeing that people will always complain and there are those type's of posters on here that post regularly. And I guess you completely overlooked the part where I specifically said "I'm not picking on this development" right before the "make-up on a pig" comment; I even started out by saying "I don't have a huge problem with this development". Lord, read what I said before going on the defensive like that.


Read what I said before making the judgment that I was even talking about you (because I wasn't other than the pig make-up bit).

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## Lindsay Architect

I'd say a park in Moore would be a nice addition.  It's hard to force a 100 year old metro area into being a careless utopia. (Not that there is anything wrong with that).  I'm all about pedestrians and the city scape, it 'can' work in downtown, I don't think it can be forced in the suburbs- and it won't work in Moore; but getting people to appriciate real design with development would go a long way.  Just don't bet your luck on a rendering when it comes to a bond issue, you never get what you pay for.  I don't remember seeing the rendering for MAPS with an elevated "boulevard" and a convention center that will end up being value engneered like the ford center was taking up half of a proposed park!  This might be a decent project however, there are probably a lot less bureaucrats in Moore making decisions for designers.

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## MDot

> Read what I said before making the judgment that I was even talking about you (because I wasn't other than the pig make-up bit).


That's what I referenced...the make-up on the pig comment. I never suggested you said anything else about me...

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## Dubya61

Sid, i love it (your thoughtful response -- the promise it would hold for Moore -- the dialogue you've engaged in and thus encouraged).  Well said!  What I don't like about your response is that I'm trying to take in all the details on my so-called smart phone without my glasses.  If Moore leaders or concerned citizens are reading your reponse, then your time wasn't without gain.  I look forward to studying your response later with better vision.

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## flintysooner

This plan began to develop in 2011 and numerous meetings were held for citizen involvement.  This is simply the next step in ascertaining whether or not the citizens want to proceed.  The old city pool has been shut in for some time so the idea of the new aquatic center generated high interest.

Also the Moore community is very active in redeveloping the "Old Moore" area including building a new Police Station building at Main and Broadway.

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## Just the facts

Thanks Flintysooner.  That just adds to the mystery why they would try to build such a larger park where they should be focusing on higher density.  Parks this size should be further out on the urban fringe.

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## flintysooner

The Fixed Guideway Study had a station at 4th Street (134th) and the tracks.  
http://www.okfgs.org/documents/Syste...%2005-1219.pdf

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## Just the facts

> The Fixed Guideway Study had a station at 4th Street (134th) and the tracks.  
> http://www.okfgs.org/documents/Syste...%2005-1219.pdf


Yes - they planned to build a large park and ride lot there, but we know that isn't going to happen now.  Plus, the Fixed Guideway Study was done years before Moore decided to rebuild their downtown.  Kind of like ODOTs plan for the new boulevard, things changed faster than they could implement their 20 years plan (which used to not be a problem in Oklahoma because very little would change in 20 years).

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## OkieChick26

I grew up in Moore from ages 5-23. If I would have had anything like this when I was growing up it would have been fantastic. I personally think it's an upgrade for Moore and it's a move in the right direction.

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## bille

I think the rendering is perhaps overcompensation for what seems to be a lack of convenient parking no matter where you go these days.  Although parking is being addressed in some of those situations, the idea of parking and walking a couple of blocks is 'absurd'.  Supporting infrastructure that turns that 'long, boring walk' into something people want to do would be ideal and I like Sid's idea.  That said, a lot of Moore's population lives far enough away that walking isn't realistic at all, at least not walking all the way there.  The location of this park will be in a sparsely populated area, of course the same could be said for just about anywhere the proposed location would be.  Regardless of where they put it the majority of the people that go to it will have to drive, plain and simple.

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## Dubya61

> The solution isn't huge grand projects, one at a time.  It is proper use of the grid in Moore, one block at a time.  Which is precisely why I would try to develop this land as follows:
> 
> 1) Add trees staggered with bollard lighting along the west side of Broadway along the current sidewalk (4th-19th)
> _This will provide a nicer N/S walking experience for those walking into the park toward one of the several "collector" cross walks on Broadway.  Also, people enjoy walking beside green spaces without actually having to enter them.  This allows people to just peer in and feel included in the beauty of them.  Many people will enjoy the new look of everything on the East side of Broadway but not everyone will want to cross Broadway just to use the trail._ 
> 
> 2) Install good crosswalks all along Broadway from 4th to 19th.  Signals aren't required.  Zebra stripping does wonders to slow traffic down and make them aware of potentially crossing pedestrians.  Especially contemporary versions like this, which actually allows pedestrians to "time" their crossing based on traffic more easily and get safely on across the curb cut quicker. If traffic speeds are an issue here, especially during low-light times of the day, flashing bollards might be as sufficient solution.
> 
> 3) Add streetside parking on the east side of Broadway from 4th to 19th.  
> 
> ...


Sid, this was an incredibly well thought out plan.  If the people of Moore were thinking they needed an aquatic recreation center (if that was the main purpose of this park), that could also go in the park, right?  If the absence of the Farmer's Market is a real issue, that could be something done in the Warren Theatre Parking Lot, I think.  You're comments were spot on.  Moore doesn't need to be stuck in the suburb mindset.  I see other threads on OKC Talk that have other cities wanting to escape the suburb mindset, too.  Norman (high density living thread), Edmond (ideas for Edmond), Midwest City (thinking about their own MAPS tax), and this one for Moore.  It's great to see these cities (or at least their concerned citizens on OKC Talk) look at ideas that might harken back to a time when they weren't so much under the OKC shadow and wanted to forge their own future.  This would be a HUGE step for Moore to undertake.  I hope somehow, the leaders get wind of these ideas.

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## rxis

The cost for Central Moore Park is going to be levied on property owners. Home owners should expect a $48 annual increase in property tax per $100,000 in assessed value.  As home owners, do you think you would be satisfied with having to pay this fee annually?
Is it not possible to increase or enact participant fees?

I have used the Buck Thomas Park for its baseball/softball facilities for many years and I have always wondered why the participants and tournament organizers don't pay more of their share of the costs.

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## Easy180

No problem with the increase rxis as these enhancements will surely enhance my home's value come selling time

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## sharpshooter

Like the idea of a new central park but don't like the cost. At least not right now. The city is flush with money right now due to increased sales tax revenue from economic development. Let's get our new park, but let's do it gradually...over time......without raising property taxes. Not a popular idea in our "gotta have it now" society.

And....don't ya just love it any time a city uses the term "temporary" sales tax. If approved, the "temporary" tax will expire in 5 years, but then there'll be another project that needs done. The city leaders will want us to approve an extension of the sales tax. They'll tell us that you're already used to paying it so you wont feel a thing. Always happens that way. Once they get their hooks in ya, they wont want to let go. 

.

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## bille

> Like the idea of a new central park but don't like the cost. At least not right now. The city is flush with money right now due to increased sales tax revenue from economic development. Let's get our new park, but let's do it gradually...over time......without raising property taxes. Not a popular idea in our "gotta have it now" society.
> 
> And....don't ya just love it any time a city uses the term "temporary" sales tax. If approved, the "temporary" tax will expire in 5 years, but then there'll be another project that needs done. The city leaders will want us to approve an extension of the sales tax. They'll tell us that you're already used to paying it so you wont feel a thing. Always happens that way. Once they get their hooks in ya, they wont want to let go. 
> 
> .


This is why they also made a point to display all the other other citites that have a higher rate as well as a couple with a lower rate.  I agree though, once we pass it it'll be here to stay.

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## rxis

I haven't thought much into it, but it seemed like the cities in the proposal didn't concur with Moore's demographic profile. 

Well, looks like the park will be here soon. 
I was split in the decision due to the high cost it will incur on my families in Moore and now I can't help but feel "buyers remorse." My current neighbors and former neighbors (both in Moore) were for the most part against the park, but maybe this will be a positive addition to the Moore community that can benefit us all.

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## Just the facts

As with anything, construction is only a part of the expense.  I'm not sure how much money Moore spends today for maintenance on this parcel of land but whatever it is, it will be a lot more in a few years.

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## krisb

Is this a joke? What are all the people in those cars going to do when they get there?

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## Just the facts

> Is this a joke? What are all the people in those cars going to do when they get there?


No joke.  They are going to walk around in a big circle with their car being both the origin and destination of the walking tour.  Oh, and a water park that will be usable for 4 months a year.

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## Plutonic Panda

It's amazing how negative people are sometimes. I know multiple people in Moore who are glad that this is happening. I think it is a very nice addition to Moore. As I am an advocate for cars, commenting on the walkability part of it would be bias for me, so I won't. Regarding the water park. If it is closed 4 months out of the year, that means it will be open 8 months out of the year.

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## Jesseda

I am glad the propostion one passed, we need a new community center and we need a city pool and rec area. I am glad that propostiton 2 passed, hopefully they actually spend some of that money on the girls softball fields which looks like something from a 3rd world country compared to the boys side.

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## flintysooner

> Is this a joke? What are all the people in those cars going to do when they get there?


Maybe they'd use the aquatic center or maybe shop at the farmers' market or maybe attend a function at one of the pavillions or maybe attend an event at the amphitheater or maybe walk or run on the marked trail or perhaps meet others to bike or run as a group or perhaps some of the various car club folks will meet there on occasion.  And there are probably other uses that have been discussed but these are the ones I remember.  Other than that though I guess there's not so much.

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## Just the facts

Have they done any use projections?

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## Jesseda

> Have they done any use projections?


A couple years ago they sent out surveys to about 1,000 plus citizens of moore and asked them what they would like to see with parks and rec in moore. The top of the survey that most people wanted was A new community center, pool, walking trails, dog park and a couple others, the city posted the survey results of it on their site a couple months after the survey went out.

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## flintysooner

Plus many citizen input meetings with very good attendance. Permanent farm market and all other uses were important.

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## Just the facts

...but no estimates yet on how many people they expect to use it?

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## flintysooner

I don't recall from the study but based on current use of similar facilities I'd guess it will be widely used.

Moore continues to be an under served market in many respects. Always surprises people.

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## Jesseda

> I don't recall from the study but based on current use of similar facilities I'd guess it will be widely used.
> 
> Moore continues to be an under served market in many respects. Always surprises people.


we go to earlywine park a lot and my children took multiple swimming lessons there this past summer. About one out of every 3 kids at that lesson came from moore and a lot of us parents or gaurdians from moore agreed that moore needs a community swimming pool and large community center that will offer multiple uses. Just go to earlywine and the YMCA at that location and ask how many are from moore! you would be suprised how many travel to earlywine that are from our city just to use what all earlywine offers (large walking trail, pools, small waterpark, Gym etc)

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## bille

> It's amazing how negative people are sometimes. I know multiple people in Moore who are glad that this is happening. I think it is a very nice addition to Moore. As I am an advocate for cars, commenting on the walkability part of it would be bias for me, so I won't. Regarding the water park. If it is closed 4 months out of the year, that means it will be open 8 months out of the year.


I'm a little beside myself over all of the negative reactions of this passing too, ranging from those disagreeing with how the money is spent (I have a feeling they weren't in attendance at any of the plethora of meetings the City has been having over this) to those still upset that gas isn't $.50 a gallon any more.  It's my opinion that the majority of those experiencing catastrophic fallout over this passing either don't live in Moore and are arguing 'just because' or they never attend any public functions within the city at the community center, downtown, and/or never visit the city/ball parks, nor do they have any intentions of doing so in the future.  If they did and were aware of how busy the parks are, their conditions, lack of parking and amenities, etc. they'd probably feel a lot differently about this.  To add onto that, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a significant percentage of people for both propositions don't currently make use of any of these facilities but perhaps intend to in the future.  Or maybe they just believe that this is wise investment in Moore's future and feel the cost is worth the gain. At any rate I hope those doing the complaining had a vote (lives in Moore) and actually went and voted.

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## Jesseda

> I'm a little beside myself over all of the negative reactions of this passing too, ranging from those disagreeing with how the money is spent (I have a feeling they weren't in attendance at any of the plethora of meetings the City has been having over this) to those still upset that gas isn't $.50 a gallon any more.  It's my opinion that the majority of those experiencing catastrophic fallout over this passing either don't live in Moore and are arguing 'just because' or they never attend any public functions within the city at the community center, downtown, and/or never visit the city/ball parks, nor do they have any intentions of doing so in the future.  If they did and were aware of how busy the parks are, their conditions, lack of parking and amenities, etc. they'd probably feel a lot differently about this.  To add onto that, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a significant percentage of people for both propositions don't currently make use of any of these facilities but perhaps intend to in the future.  Or maybe they just believe that this is wise investment in Moore's future and feel the cost is worth the gain. At any rate I hope those doing the complaining had a vote (lives in Moore) and actually went and voted.


well said billie

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## MonkeesFan

I am glad that it passed, it is sorely needed, it is going to look great! Where will it be exactly in Moore?

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## flintysooner

It begins at SW 4th Street and Broadway (east side) and extends south nearly to SW 19th.

It really is pretty centrally located being at Broadway and only 4 blocks south of Main.  Moore is really trying hard to help revitalize the central area of Moore.

Moore is only about 5 miles square so rather small.

----------


## MonkeesFan

> It begins at SW 4th Street and Broadway (east side) and extends south nearly to SW 19th.
> 
> It really is pretty centrally located being at Broadway and only 4 blocks south of Main.  Moore is really trying hard to help revitalize the central area of Moore.
> 
> Moore is only about 5 miles square so rather small.


Thank you!

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## Dubya61

> It begins at SW 4th Street and Broadway (east side) and extends south nearly to SW 19th.
> 
> It really is pretty centrally located being at Broadway and only 4 blocks south of Main.  Moore is really trying hard to help revitalize the central area of Moore.
> 
> Moore is only about 5 miles square so rather small.


Per the City of Moore website, Moore takes up about 22 sq miles

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## catch22

> Per the City of Moore website, Moore takes up about 22 sq miles


He was probably thinking square miles as 5 miles wide 5 miles long.

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## sharpshooter

As a citizen of Moore for more than 25 years, I've seen the improvements the City has made to infrastructure, emergency services, and beautification; all are worthy expenditures . Seems like I've watched this City "grow up" since I've been here. Having said that, I didn't support the two propositions for park improvements and the addition of the new central park. It amazes me that something like this would pass in this current economic environment. Can't the City do something like this over a longer period of time without raising taxes? Make it a 10-year project with several phases and pay as you go? Anyway..... it's a done deal now. But..... everyone reading this needs to know that the "temporary" -cent sales tax will never end. Yes.... it will require anoter vote of the good citizens of Moore to extend it; at that time the City leaders will have another "worthy" project to fund. The City, with it's ability for mass mailings to all citizens, will convince the majority of you to vote for the extension. Those opposed wont have a chance. Well....ya can't fight City Hall.

So.... soon we'll have some Park improvements and a new Central Park. There'll be a big ceremony when it's finished and all the City leaders will get their names put on a big plaque mounted on one of the new buildings at Central Park, touting their vision for our community. While quietly, 90% of the citizens of Moore who never set foot in the Park get to pay for it.

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## flintysooner

It is sad that you feel so victimized and powerless. 

Moore invites greater participation and actually listens and reacts to Citizen input greater than any other place I've ever been.  

Officials are out and about in the City and are all tremendously approachable.  

I know there has been a lot of growth and change in a short time.  At the Dick's opening the other day the Mayor mentioned it had been only 6 years since a citizen could buy a 2x4 in Moore.

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## HangryHippo

Yes, by all means, don't pay for a park.  Parks are horrible things.  

I do not understand all the whining about a 1/4 cent sales tax.

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## jedicurt

> While quietly, 90% of the citizens of Moore who never set foot in the Park get to pay for it.


If those citizens choose not to go to the new park, isn't that kinda of their fault?  or is there restrictions as to who can use the park that were not made publicly available?  If you choose not to use the services and amenities that your tax dollars pay for, how is that anyones fault but your own?

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## sharpshooter

To _flintysooner_: victimized and powerless? C'mon, don't put words in my mouth and I wont put words in yours. Re-read my post. I praised City leaders for the improvements they've made in the past. A citizen of Moore can disagree with decisions made by the City Council without being branded anti-Moore. I like this community; that's why I choose to live here. I live in Ward 3 and have known my city councilman for many years. (I've bought insurance from him for more than 20 years) And yes......he's a very approachable and likeable person. But that doesn't mean I can't disagree with him with him on occasion.

To _onlyone_: Again.... re-read my post. I'm not anti-park. I am opposed to raising taxes in one of the worst economic environments in decades. If you think it's just a -cent sales tax increase, you are mis-informed. Re-read the proposals.

To _jedicurt_: Parks are not critical City services. Police. Fire. Ambulance. Water. Sewer. Roads. These are critical City services and may be worth an increase in taxes if necessary. 

You all seem like reasonable people. Someone here can have an opposing view without being branded a "victim" or "powerless". I like parks but, as a non-critical City service, they shouldn't be funded by a tax increase; at least not in the current economic environment.

As my friends and neighbors, I hope you all have a good day.

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## soonermike

Well said sharpshooter. I was in favor of both proposals and voted accordingly, but I think you expressed your opinion against the proposals in a well stated manner without being overly negative. Much better than some of the people who don't live in Moore (or even Oklahoma) and have no skin in the game just coming on here and bashing Moore consistently.

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## rcjunkie

> As a citizen of Moore for more than 25 years, I've seen the improvements the City has made to infrastructure, emergency services, and beautification; all are worthy expenditures . Seems like I've watched this City "grow up" since I've been here. Having said that, I didn't support the two propositions for park improvements and the addition of the new central park. It amazes me that something like this would pass in this current economic environment. Can't the City do something like this over a longer period of time without raising taxes? Make it a 10-year project with several phases and pay as you go? Anyway..... it's a done deal now. But..... everyone reading this needs to know that the "temporary" -cent sales tax will never end. Yes.... it will require anoter vote of the good citizens of Moore to extend it; at that time the City leaders will have another "worthy" project to fund. The City, with it's ability for mass mailings to all citizens, will convince the majority of you to vote for the extension. Those opposed wont have a chance. Well....ya can't fight City Hall.
> 
> So.... soon we'll have some Park improvements and a new Central Park. There'll be a big ceremony when it's finished and all the City leaders will get their names put on a big plaque mounted on one of the new buildings at Central Park, touting their vision for our community. While quietly, *90% of the citizens of Moore* who never set foot in the Park get to pay for it.


If this is indeed true, why didn't the so quoted 90% get out and vote no

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## flintysooner

> To _flintysooner_: victimized and powerless? C'mon, don't put words in my mouth and I wont put words in yours. Re-read my post. I praised City leaders for the improvements they've made in the past. A citizen of Moore can disagree with decisions made by the City Council without being branded anti-Moore.


But it wasn't the City Council that made the decision.  There were meetings upon meetings and surveys and the larger parks plan arose from that input.    Finally the plans as well as their funding were put on the ballot.  And citizens again voted favorably on those same measures.

You make it sound in your original post that this was something that originated at the Council and was forced upon the citizens.

It just doesn't seem to have happened that way to me.

I have no disagreement with those who felt either projects were wrong or who disagreed with the funding mechanisms.  I certainly meant no disrespect to you or your position regarding the merits.

It just seemed to me that you were blaming the City leaders.

I try not to get involved in such disputes though so please accept my apology for misrepresenting your feelings.

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## Just the facts

I would be willing to agree that 90% of Moore residents will go to this park less than 1 time per year (statistically equal to 'never use it').  But just because you don't plan to use it is not a reason to vote against it.

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## jedicurt

> To _jedicurt_: Parks are not critical City services. Police. Fire. Ambulance. Water. Sewer. Roads. These are critical City services and may be worth an increase in taxes if necessary.


I also would like to know more about your position on parks being non-critical.  

And hope i didn't come off as just being argumentative.  I used to not use the parks in norman or the bus service or anything else until just recently.  and the conclusion that led me to start was the idea of "Well i'm paying for it, might as well use it"

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## sharpshooter

> I find your position that parks are non-critical interesting.  Would love to hear more about that position.
> 
> I assume you would consider public safety critical? Anything else?


As I stated in an earlier post:  Parks are not critical City services. Police. Fire. Ambulance. Water. Sewer. Roads. These are critical City services. I use the term "critical" because I believe these are "City provided" services that we all must have. Possibly could have added trash service and civil defense sirens to the list. Try and imagine doing without any of these services. Parks are a nice thing to have but not critical; they are optional. Parks improve the quality of life in Moore just like a good library. But critical? No.

To _rcjunkie_: The 90% figure I came up with was just a guess of course. BTW = 36% (prop 1) and 42% (prop 2) of the voters did vote NO on Tuesday's propositions respectively. Another guess on my part is I blame part of these results on an ill-informed electorate. Ask yourself this: If a represenative from the City Of Moore came to you a year ago and said we want to make some park improvements and build a new park and showed you the plans and then said I'll need a check from you for $1000. Would that make any difference on your decision to support the proposals? Maybe it wouldn't make any difference and that's fine if you believe they are worth that to you. The $1000 is a conservative estimate on what it will cost me over the next five years. The proposals are presented to the public with a spoon full of sugar; it helps the medicine go down.

To _flintysooner_: Apology accepted but not necessary. We're just neighbors discussing current events across the table at a coffee shop. Again, I like the ideas in the proposals. I do think they could be done incrementally over a longer period of time without raising taxes.

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## flintysooner

Yessir and one of the things I love about Moore is that most all of us  really do think of ourselves as neighbors.   Whether we agree or not.

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## Easy180

A lot of commotion over an extra 10 bucks a month

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## Spartan

> As I stated in an earlier post:  Parks are not critical City services. Police. Fire. Ambulance. Water. Sewer. Roads. These are critical City services. I use the term "critical" because I believe these are "City provided" services that we all must have. Possibly could have added trash service and civil defense sirens to the list. Try and imagine doing without any of these services. Parks are a nice thing to have but not critical; they are optional. Parks improve the quality of life in Moore just like a good library. But critical? No.


So trash service and sirens are also optional maybe kinda sorta?? Gee okay. Remind me what Moore is best known for (_I graduated WHS 'Class of 2008 so I can say that_)

The point is that you're right, those are your basic services. They are essential, but won't create a place people actually want to live. Nobody moves to Edmond because they have really nice sewage and fire trucks, but rather because Edmond is an attractive city with excellent amenities, a great downtown area, and beautiful neighborhoods. 

Moore is swimming in more cash than any other Oklahoma city and can afford to create a place where people want to live, but it chooses not to. That is sad. That is also why the rest of the metro has and always will kind of look down on Moore as the white trash "Home of Toby Keith."

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## Just the facts

Loud and proud baby.

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## Jesseda

> Loud and proud baby.


wish they could put HOME OF JESSE JANE on that tower maybe we would get more Looks  :Smile:

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## sharpshooter

Toby sends someone to Moore to pick up his Steak Sandwich's from Del Rancho. For that he gets his name on a water tank. Cool.

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## rcjunkie

> Toby sends someone to Moore to pick up his Steak Sandwich's from Del Rancho. For that he gets his name on a water tank. Cool.


It's because he lived there for several years and graduated from Moore High. He now lives in Norman, which by the way has a Del Rancho ( not the anyone would admit to eating at Del Rancho).

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## catch22

what's wrong with Del Rancho?

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## HangryHippo

> what's wrong with Del Rancho?


Not a thing.  I love the steak sandwich supreme!

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## Roger S

> ... which by the way has a Del Rancho ( not the anyone would admit to eating at Del Rancho).


I'll have to prove you wrong. I admit that I eat at Del Rancho. Not very often but I do eat there.

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## CaptDave

> ( not the anyone would admit to eating at Del Rancho).


Hey!! Del Rancho is an occasional guilty pleasure. What's wrong with a steak sandwich supreme every couple of months??   :Smile:

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## Roger S

> Hey!! Del Rancho is an occasional guilty pleasure. What's wrong with a steak sandwich supreme every couple of months??


Exactly! And add cheese on mine as long as I'm splurging.  :Wink:

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## RadicalModerate

Maybe everyone could be pacified if they put a smiley face with one of those scrunched-up, black "cowboy" hats under the text. (p.s. i like toby keith's music. his namesake restaurants? . . . meh.  del rancho is better. IMHO.)

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## rcjunkie

> Hey!! Del Rancho is an occasional guilty pleasure. What's wrong with a steak sandwich supreme every couple of months??


Nothing if your ok with a little meat with your breading.

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## Roger S

> Nothing if your ok with a little meat with your breading.


You must be living wrong... The ones I get from the Moore location have a good breading to meat ratio.

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## sharpshooter

> It's because he lived there for several years and graduated from Moore High. He now lives in Norman, which by the way has a Del Rancho ( not the anyone would admit to eating at Del Rancho).


Yep. He sure did live here at one time; no doubt about that. And yes..... he graduated from Moore High School. But so have thousands of others. I know he lives in Norman. I've rode my motorcycle by his house on many occasions while heading to Lake Dirtybird. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: Has he done anything for Moore since making it to the big leagues? Maybe he has and I don't know about it. Maybe someone can set me straight on that. Has he done anything to make Moore a better place since leaving? Donated any time or put forth any effort to benefit his so-called hometown? Maybe he's mentioned Moore in one of his songs or maybe he speaks about Moore in a way that sheds some positive light on our community?  

I mentioned Del Rancho in my earlier post because I read an article in a magazine a few years ago and the only mention Toby makes of Moore is about getting his steak sandwiches from the Moore Del Rancho. It's absurd that the City wants to put his name on one of our water tanks IMO. But then, I think _Jesseda_ already made that point when she mentioned putting Jesse Jane's name on one of our water towers. 

I've got nothing against Mr. Toby Covel. Just don't think he warrants getting his name on one of our water tanks.

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## Plutonic Panda

Out of all the days I found this on Moore's website






> It will include the following features:
> 
> Playground
> Walking trail
> Pavilion
> Permanent restroom
> Sprayground
> Landscaping


http://www.cityofmoore.com/parmele-park-taking-shape

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## Plutonic Panda

Not sure if this is the new park or not. Either way, this thing is huge

"On Monday night, designers unveiled plans for a new park. The future focal point for the city would stretch six blocks along Broadway Street, turning 80 acres of fields into much more.

The park design includes attractions for all types, including a water park, splash pads, pond, handicap-accessible play areas, trails, gardens, and a new community center.

“This is very special, just across the street is one of the worst hit tornado areas in the state and this is going to be an extremely nice addition,” said Moore Mayor Glenn Lewis. “It will be completed by the time all the houses are back, so we’re very excited about all of these options.”



Read more: Moore unveils plan for new park - Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com

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## UnFrSaKn

Central Moore Park Long Range Plan | City of Moore

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## Plutonic Panda

This is going to be an awesome park and great for Moore! I just wish they would take all of the parking and build structured parking or do something unique like build a hill and make a mountain biking course/free roam with a parking garage underneath. THAT WOULD BE COOL!!!!

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## Garin

http://www.cityofmoore.com/sites/def...st-GO_Bond.pdf

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## CuatrodeMayo

(Car) park.

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## HangryHippo

Yep, that's pretty terrible.

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## adaniel

More parking spaces than trees? How can you even call this a park with a straight face?

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## Just the facts

ROFLMAO!  But hey, when you build in a manner that requires everyone to drive you need a place for them to park.  What a waste.  Ball ---- dropped.

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## Dubya61

Odd this thread should become active, again.  I was just thinking about this topic today.  All of these are valid points, but they aren't anything new -- which tells me that either recent commenters haven't read through the entire thread or have forgotten.  For me, this thread should end at post #43 (my retroactive nomination is herewith submitted for 2012 post of the year) and post #43 should end in "#drops mic", but the author is too modest to say that, I'll bet.  Here's the best post of 2012, for those of you who don't wish to seek it out.




> I actually LOVE what you started off saying here. I totally agree. The solution isn't huge grand projects, one at a time.  It is proper use of the grid in Moore, one block at a time.  Which is precisely why I would try to develop this land as follows:
> 
> 1) Add trees staggered with bollard lighting along the west side of Broadway along the current sidewalk (4th-19th)
> _This will provide a nicer N/S walking experience for those walking into the park toward one of the several "collector" cross walks on Broadway.  Also, people enjoy walking beside green spaces without actually having to enter them.  This allows people to just peer in and feel included in the beauty of them.  Many people will enjoy the new look of everything on the East side of Broadway but not everyone will want to cross Broadway just to use the trail._ 
> 
> 2) Install good crosswalks all along Broadway from 4th to 19th.  Signals aren't required.  Zebra stripping does wonders to slow traffic down and make them aware of potentially crossing pedestrians.  Especially contemporary versions like this, which actually allows pedestrians to "time" their crossing based on traffic more easily and get safely on across the curb cut quicker. If traffic speeds are an issue here, especially during low-light times of the day, flashing bollards might be as sufficient solution.
> 
> 3) Add streetside parking on the east side of Broadway from 4th to 19th.  
> 
> ...

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## CuatrodeMayo

I'm not sure what your point is.  We all agree that what Sid suggested is all great stuff.

My reaction is based solely on the rendering in the PDF linked above.  A rendering that shows more parking lots than anything else.

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## Roger S

Yeah.... It's terrible that Moore is building a place for it's citizens to go for recreation... Absolutely terrible!

I know I'll just hate it every time I go over there to safely ride my bike on the trails, shoot some hoops, or buy some fresh vegetables for my dinner table.

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## Dubya61

> I'm not sure what your point is.  We all agree that what Sid suggested is all great stuff.
> 
> My reaction is based solely on the rendering in the PDF linked above.  A rendering that shows more parking lots than anything else.


My apologies, I had no intent to stifle conversation.  FWIW, the link in the first post has four pictures (including the one in the PDF link) ... that also show nice parking lots.   sigh

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## CuatrodeMayo

> Yeah.... It's terrible that Moore is building a place for it's citizens to go for recreation... Absolutely terrible!
> 
> I know I'll just hate it every time I go over there to safely ride my bike on the trails, shoot some hoops, or buy some fresh vegetables for my dinner table.


Just think about how much more activities you could do if there wasn't so much asphalt in the way  :Smile:

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## Plutonic Panda

Eh, I think it is ok. There is a bit too much parking. If I were building it, i would've built a 5 story parking garage with 200-400 spaces and had 2 of the levels underground. I also would've had one level for retail, but overall, it would be 3 stories high.

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## Roger S

> Just think about how much more activities you could do if there wasn't so much asphalt in the way


You realize Moore is the suburbs? People close to the park will walk or ride a bike over there. The rest of us drive and will need parking.

The farmers market will also draw people from outside Moore. Those people will drive and need a place to park.

If this was the OKC central park I would have no disagreement with any of you but it's not. This will be a nice park that will serve those both near and far from it.

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## shawnw

Not defending anything, but the park goes from 4th all the way to almost 19th, so I'm sure there's more to it than that strip shown in that diagram. 

Incidentally the park at 5th and Telephone has a high amount of parking for its size...

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## Plutonic Panda

> You realize Moore is the suburbs? People close to the park will walk or ride a bike over there. The rest of us drive and will need parking.
> 
> The farmers market will also draw people from outside Moore. Those people will drive and need a place to park.
> 
> If this was the OKC central park I would have no disagreement with any of you but it's not. This will be a nice park that will serve those both near and far from it.


If anything isn't pushed right up against the street with no surface parking lots, it will be attacked. Their argument is, "oh, there is a difference between bad suburbia and good suburbia". The bad suburbia is suburbs that are suburbs and the good is suburbs that are turned into urban environments. It's all a front to urbanize everything. 

Again, I like this park and think it will do fairly well. Like I said, I would consolidate most of the parking into a structured garage, but other than that it is great.

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## Plutonic Panda

> Not defending anything, but the park goes from 4th all the way to almost 19th, so I'm sure there's more to it than that strip shown in that diagram. 
> 
> Incidentally the park at 5th and Telephone has a high amount of parking for its size...


I kind thought that might be the case.

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## Dubya61

> Not defending anything, but the park goes from 4th all the way to almost 19th, so I'm sure there's more to it than that strip shown in that diagram.


There are lots of pictures that show lots more park.

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## Plutonic Panda

> There are lots of pictures that show lots more park.


Where?

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## shawnw

> If this was the OKC central park


It looks thematically similar though doesn't it?

Hope they do better in implementation, compared to how the Riverwalk turned out, which if I recall was supposed to compete with the Bricktown Canal when it was announced. I _NEVER_ see anybody walk by that "river".

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## Dubya61

> Where?


See post #1 (four pictures) and post #112 (four pictures).

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## Roger S

> It looks thematically similar though doesn't it?
> 
> Hope they do better in implementation, compared to how the Riverwalk turned out, which if I recall was supposed to compete with the Bricktown Canal when it was announced. I _NEVER_ see anybody walk by that "river".


Yeah, the riverwalk in Moore is disappointing. It could have been turned into such a neat water feature and instead it's just a drainage ditch behind the buildings. The developer probably looked at it as a feature to overcome rather than a feature to incorporate into that development.

I'm looking forward to this park being built and I'm really hoping that the Farmer's Market can become something more like the one in Norman.

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## bille

That last pic is old, part of the original package I think.



[/URL]

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## Plutonic Panda

That is really cool. I'm jealous actually! This will be awesome for Moore!

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## CuatrodeMayo

I think I actually DO see on-street parking...

If these images above are in fact the actual plans vs. the PDF from earlier, then I retract my criticism.

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## Garin

If people can't drive there and park they will turn around and go somewhere else.

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## Spartan

WOW. I too wrote a scathing post about how disappointed I am that Moore is blowing some golden opportunities. Then I saw the new plans on this page. Job well done, Moore. I am going to email this to my family who lives in Moore just so that they know and can maybe send some supportive appreciation to the city. Those guys have a tough job going out on a limb, but I'm glad they did. 

I'm also pleasantly surprised at how quickly Veterans Memorial Park at 4th and Bryant has been cleaned up, though the loss of those great trees is a travesty. That was a very well-done park. I remember getting a curfew violation there as a kid because I so enjoyed hanging out there, LOL.

I wonder if some of the lots in the tornado-ravaged neighborhood across the street could be reincorporated into a nice park-front development.

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## bille

> It is quite nice. As I've said in the past, it is a lost opportunity to not use on-street parking. Not only could it potentially provide maintenance revenue for the park but it would give you more space and make the sidewalks around the park more enjoyable to use. 
> 
> But congrats Moore. It will be nice to use this.


I realize these are just pics but it appears that there may be plans for on-street parking.  If you zoom in to the southern-facing rendering anyway...

----------


## Garin

> WOW. I too wrote a scathing post about how disappointed I am that Moore is blowing some golden opportunities. Then I saw the new plans on this page. Job well done, Moore. I am going to email this to my family who lives in Moore just so that they know and can maybe send some supportive appreciation to the city. Those guys have a tough job going out on a limb, but I'm glad they did. 
> 
> I'm also pleasantly surprised at how quickly Veterans Memorial Park at 4th and Bryant has been cleaned up, though the loss of those great trees is a travesty. That was a very well-done park. I remember getting a curfew violation there as a kid because I so enjoyed hanging out there, LOL.
> 
> I wonder if some of the lots in the tornado-ravaged neighborhood across the street could be reincorporated into a nice park-front development.


This might have helped out....
And the winner is? Veterans Memorial Park in Moore! | KFOR.com

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## Plutonic Panda

Update:




> *Oklahoma Strong Monument to be Built in Moore's New Central Park*
> 
> Following the aftermath of May 2013 and witnessing how Oklahomans united to help one another, a group of inspired people set off to create a tribute to the spirit of human beings. Once the ball was rolling, it didn't take long for the idea to become reality and at Monday night's City Council meeting, those plans were approved.
> 
> *The monument will be built on the North side of the new central park at SW 4th & Broadway.* *This positive celebration monument will be about 90' in diameter and constructed out of cor-ten steel.* Surrounding the monument will be silhouettes of community members including first responders, families, project donors, volunteers, construction workers, the everyday citizen and even historical figures. A 100-foot flag is planned to be positioned in the center over a time capsule that is to be opened every 100 years. *The monument will be connected to walkways and have seating, interpretive signage, music and landscaping.*


- read more here: News | Moore Monthly

Say's construction should start on the middle of this year. This will be such an awesome addition to Moore! Very excited...

----------


## Plutonic Panda

The video and some key screenshots.

Link to the video: 3mar4 Oklahoma Strong Monument FINAL2 on Vimeo

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## Plutonic Panda

update on the Oklahoma strong monument 




> An Oklahoma Strong Monument approved by City Council in early March is looking to raise money for the project with many events, one being a 5k run/walk on May 17. Here is what you need to know:
> 
> -Vendors and music! This will be a fun "party" atmosphere.
> -Registration before May 7 is as follows: $35 for 5k and $30 for the Fun Run. You can also join the "Dream Team" for $30- that's for people who dream of running but would rather be dreaming than running. After May 7, price increases by $5.
> -The run will take place on the west side of Moore. Exact route and time is still being finalized.
> -Runner will receive a shirt and completion medal. The first 1,000 runners will also receive a headsweats hat.
> -Sponsorship is available for businesses or corperations starting at $500 and up to $5,000. 
> 
> - See more at: News | Moore Monthly

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## Plutonic Panda

Name coming soon

News | Moore Monthly

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## catch22

They should borrow a page from the OKC playbook and call it Moore Park. See if they can name a creek Moore Creek, and a nearby road Moore Boulevard.

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## sharpshooter

> They should borrow a page from the OKC playbook and call it Moore Park. See if they can name a creek Moore Creek, and a nearby road Moore Boulevard.


Exactly. LOL.  

I still refuse to call the _North Canadian River_ the _Oklahoma River_ because mayor Mick and the OKC City Council thought it would be a good marketing idea.

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## Robert_M

General Contractors are to submit there bids tomorrow the 22nd so hopefully construction will start by the end of next month.  

In regard to parking I did a rough count on the plans and there are about 400 spaces total all along the East side near the railroad tracks.  Plans didn't appear to show any on street parking but that could just fall under the city's work which wouldn't be shown.

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## Just the facts

> Name coming soon
> 
> News | Moore Monthly


Ummm, what is wrong with Moore Central Park?  They will probably name it after someone as if that person funded the whole thing themselves.

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## Plutonic Panda

> Ummm, what is wrong with Moore Central Park?  They will probably name it after someone as if that person funded the whole thing themselves.


Yeah... I agree. I honestly thought Moore Central Park was going to be the name

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## Snowman

> Exactly. LOL.  
> 
> I still refuse to call the _North Canadian River_ the _Oklahoma River_ because mayor Mick and the OKC City Council thought it would be a good marketing idea.


While they might have agreed, Ray Ackerman was the earliest staunch proponent of the name.

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## wahoorob

While pretty much everyone agrees that most folks will call the new park "Central park"...it has been named and here's the explanation:

News | Moore Monthly

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## Plutonic Panda

The Berry Family Farm? I really hope either I am confusing that with something else or it is a joke.

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## RadicalModerate

> The Berry Family Farm? I really hope either I am confusing that with something else or it is a joke.


Ah, yes . . . The famous Berry Family: Blue, Rasp, Lingon, Goose, Huckle, Straw . . .

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## Plutonic Panda

Maybe I'm too young to understand, but I have not the slightest notion of who those people are. If they're on TV, then I lied; regarding my notion of course. 

I like that word.... notion

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## Just the facts

They have to be kidding me.  Fail!  They missed by a long shot.  Nothing says "center of Moore" and assist in place-making than using the word 'farm' in the name.

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## bille

Did you watch the video?  It makes sense, really.  I'm sure it was part of the agreement to sell the land and it really was the best piece of real estate available, centrally located and all.  Besides, regardless of what the official name is most will still call it central park, just like most people I know refer to buck Thomas as "12th st park".

sent from WOPR

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## shawnw

I can only see images of Knotts's Berry Farm in my head when I see that name...  and will be disappointed when I find no roller coasters...

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## soonermike

After watching the video and a new one about the construction of the park here News | Moore Monthly, it looks like the first video was just identifying the area that was the farm of the Berry family. The name of the park will be the Dr. Curtis Berry Central Park, Recreation Center, and Aquatics Center. Of course in the end, I'm sure everyone will just call it Central Park.

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## Easy180

Could give two craps what the name is...Just looking forward to it being there

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## Roger S

> Could give two craps what the name is...Just looking forward to it being there


My thoughts too.... My response when the wife asks me where I'm going wil be..... The park at 4th Street

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## sharpshooter

I've got no beef with Dr. Berry's descendants.  They sold the City Of Moore....... no wait, they sold you and me and all the other residents of Moore, 3 parcels of land for an aggregate total of 1,549,001.00 Moore tax payer dollars.  Parcels R0077714, R0077715 and R0167319.  Look it up.  Makes you wonder what it would have cost us if the City wouldn't have agreed to name the Park after their father.  Isn't it interesting how the little details (like naming rights)  are not mentioned until well after the vote.  Our neighbors to the North got to experience this very same thing with MAPS.  Pay for the Bricktown Ballpark and after it's built guess what... it's now the Southwesten Bell Bricktown Ballpark.  There were some PO'd OKC taxpayers when they found out.  Hmmmmm..... I wonder if that 1.5 mil would have built a Railroad underpass on 4th street.  Now that project just might save a life or two.

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## Spartan

Why not just Berry Park or Berry Commons?

Okay, that last one sounds socialist. Hopefully park isn't too socialist sounding though?

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## bille

Well first of all the underpass is going to happen, eventually, and that'll most likely come at the cost of the state, not the city, although I could be wrong.

The land is prime real estate located in the heart of Moore that could have sold ten times over a long time ago.

sent from WOPR

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## wahoorob

> The Berry Family Farm? I really hope either I am confusing that with something else or it is a joke.


It's not going to be called "Berry Park Farm." That was simply a graphic illustrating the borders of the farm land belonging to the Berry Family.

The official name of the park is "Dr. Curtis Berry Central Park." But as I said before...while that will be the name on the signs, everyone will simply call it Central Park in much the same way that folks identify "Tom Strouhal Little River Park" as "Little River Park."

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## RadicalModerate

In my old neighborhood, nestled at the foot of the Front Range of the Rockies, The "Berry Family Farm", c. '72 finally consisted of Dave and Dan.  Two of the biggest "growers" and "importers" of, then-illicit, natural organic and chemical man-made mood altering substances available at the time. This is one reason why the unofficial name of the new park in Moore carries with it less than positive connotations.  "Not's Berry Family Farm" maybe could be run up the flagpole to see who salutes?

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## Robert_M

Back in 2012 when the city had an Engineer look at the underpass idea they estimated the 4th Street underpass to cost around 10 Million.

News | Moore Monthly

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## bille

I'm sure it's something they'll tackle after the park is well underway, if not completed.  I'm still unsure how they'd address the businesses that are close to the tracks, does anybody know if the results off those studies are publicly available?

sent from WOPR

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## Robert_M

The meeting minutes go into somewhat detail about the information

http://www.cityofmoore.com/sites/def...uncil.min_.pdf

Other then that it was not presented in executive session so you may be able to contact the city and get the report.

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## Plutonic Panda

Update:




> MOORE — An amphitheater for outdoor concerts, an aquatic center, a farmers market and a 52,000-square-foot recreation center will be among the attractions at Central Park, scheduled to open in Moore in the fall of 2015.
> 
> Photo - 
> A recreation and aquatic center are among the facilities scheduled to open in the fall of 2015 in Moore as part of the community’s Central Park. Voters approved the funding for the park in November 2012. Artistic rendering provided
>  <strong></strong>
> A recreation and aquatic center are among the facilities scheduled to open in the fall of 2015 in Moore as part of the community’s Central Park. Voters approved the funding for the park in November 2012. Artistic rendering provided 
> “We thought it could be a game changer for Moore, and I still believe that, and we all believe that,” said Todd Jenson, director of parks and recreation.
> 
> “You can do so many kinds of things, it’s just phenomenal, and that’s something that we’ve never had the opportunity to do before.”
> ...

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## bille

What's the update, the proposed monument?  Must be a slow news week..

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## Plutonic Panda

> What's the update, the proposed monument?  Must be a slow news week..


Pretty sure it is being built.

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## soonerliberal

So few trees...

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## damonsmuz

Soonerliberal: There will be a lot of trees..and big ones too. We (the committee) decided that we did not want any more fairway type parks. They will be there...with lots of shade  :Smile:

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## Roger S

Moore Monthly has opened voting for the new park name at this link

I sure hope they don't go with Legacy Park since a Legacy Park is already being built at UNP in Norman.

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## KKSinger

> I "don't" drive to parks? So when I drive to Earlywine Park to use the jogging trail or to South Lakes Park to take advantage of the "Close to Home" fishing program. What did I drive to? I suppose one could say I am driving to South Lakes to be amused but my drive to Earlywine is not for recreational purposes.
> 
> I think you are correct in that words mean less today. Perhaps I "should not" drive to a park but I do. 
> 
> And why is it called a park in the first place if none of us are driving there? Shouldn't it be called a walk? 
> 
> As a new member of the Moore community I'm happy to see this land being developed as a, well whatever it's going to be called, and I hope it has a nice walking/jogging trail. So I don't have to drive all the way to Earlywine.
> 
> As inconsiderate and irresponsible as drivers are these days I do not feel safe walking/jogging or riding my bike along public streets. Even the ones designated as bike routes.


Not to mention, Hafer Park in Edmond that you have to drive to get to (which it sounds like this will be a LOT like that with their water park and pool on the same land), Will Rogers Park in OKC which you have to drive to get to... and several others. They are all over Oklahoma. Even the park on 12th Street is one you almost everyone drives to get to it.  :Smile: 

Sometimes you have to step back a little bit to see everything.
KK

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## Plutonic Panda

*City Council Approves Name for New Park, Recreation Center and Aquatic Center*

And as work continues on the high-profile project, the process to name the new park, recreation center and aquatic center is now complete. *The new park will be called Dr. Curtis Berry Central Park and the recreation center and aquatic center will be called The Station at Central Park.* 

- See more at: News | The Moore Daily

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## sharpshooter

The Central Park link in the above post takes you to the OKC Central Park thread. Might want to fix that. I can see that the forum is doing to us. Can't view the BB Code that is responsible. Had to underline mine to keep it from happening to me.

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## Plutonic Panda

> The Central Park link in the above post takes you to the OKC Central Park thread. Might want to fix that. I can see that the forum is doing to us. Can't view the BB Code that is responsible. Had to underline mine to keep it from happening to me.


I don't know how to fix it.

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## sharpshooter

> I don't know how to fix it.


Use the appropriate code and replace with  Central Park.

This is done by using the Link button and hot linking the URL you want to open if Central Park is clicked on. In this example I've hot linked it to The Moore Daily article. Got to thinking after I wrote this that you're already familiar with hot linking as you already do it in many of your posts.

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## Plutonic Panda

News | The Moore Daily

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## catcherinthewry

> The Central Park link in the above post takes you to the OKC Central Park thread. Might want to fix that. I can see that the forum is doing to us. Can't view the BB Code that is responsible. Had to underline mine to keep it from happening to me.


Moore's new Central Park is going to be vast and really give the city a lift.

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## mblues

We live here in Moore and were pretty excited about this park, but we are really disappointed in how this is being handled. We had our Property Taxes increased to pay for the park and I guess that's ok, but when we saw the fees that they are charging the residents to use the main features, well that kind of sucks. These fees seem to be very high IMO, and then they open up access to the parks main features to outsiders (for a fee) and I don't agree with that either. It almost appears that the city may be using the park as a profit center. 

Now I will admit that I am frugal, but it still seems inappropriate to me!

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## Roger S

> We live here in Moore and were pretty excited about this park, but we are really disappointed in how this is being handled. We had our Property Taxes increased to pay for the park and I guess that's ok, but when we saw the fees that they are charging the residents to use the main features, well that kind of sucks. These fees seem to be very high IMO, and then they open up access to the parks main features to outsiders (for a fee) and I don't agree with that either. It almost appears that the city may be using the park as a profit center. 
> 
> Now I will admit that I am frugal, but it still seems inappropriate to me!


Are you sure about the property taxes.... pretty sure it was a sales tax that is paying for the park.

The property tax increase was to pay for a bridge most of us that are paying for it will never use.

I wasn't real enthused about the prices to use the fitness center either but I will still put the walking trails to good use and visit the Farmer's Market.

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## bucfan1512

How much will it be for Residents of Moore to purchase a pass?

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## sharpshooter

> How much will it be for Residents of Moore to purchase a pass?

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## mblues

> Are you sure about the property taxes.... pretty sure it was a sales tax that is paying for the park.
> 
> The property tax increase was to pay for a bridge most of us that are paying for it will never use.
> .


Well I was able to find that this was a $25.1MM General Obligation Bond and while I am no expert, it was my understanding that this type of GO Bond is repaid via property taxes. Please correct me if I am wrong (this wouldn't be the first for me).

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## seaofchange

> Well I was able to find that this was a $25.1MM General Obligation Bond and while I am no expert, it was my understanding that this type of GO Bond is repaid via property taxes. Please correct me if I am wrong (this wouldn't be the first for me).


It is based on property taxes:
50,000 - $1.90 per month
75,000 - $3.04 per month
100,000 - $4.18 per month
125,000 - $5.31 per month
150,000 - $6.45 per month
250,000 - $11.01 per month

This money goes towards the construction of the facility. This is not funds to operate the facility or for the upkeep of the facility. The membership costs they determined are comparable to other facilities in the area. Additionally, the park itself is free for use by anyone - the fees are for the water facility and the recreation facilities. I have asked one of the city councilmen about there being another rate being added for family with no children, even if $5 or 10 cheaper per month it might be more enticing to some people. So we shall see.

News | The Moore Daily

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## Jesseda

totally get they are charging a fee but don't get why so high when the home owners paid for it down to the gym equipment going into that facility . Thankfully the water park has a  daily pass separate from the gym part for $6 per person a day.  The City said that they are building this due to our outdated community center. So who and what was paying for the current community center to keep that facility up and running? I know of basketball fees and room rental fees. I know people are saying its going to be like a YMCA type facility like the one on may and 119th area but who paid for that YMCA to be built and stocked full of new  gym machines/equipment to start off? Was it south okc home owners? $50.00 for a family per month isn't  a bad price at all, but its just like a gym that was built out of home owners expense

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## Plutonic Panda

Officials hope nearly finished Moore park will bring residents, others together | News OK

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## Plutonic Panda

This park is now open for the most part. There are still a few things underway such as some lighting, trails, and the aquatic center.

News | The Moore Daily

News | The Moore Daily

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## Roger S

Farmers Market grand opening at the park is tonight (May 5th) from 4-7 PM.

Really going to enjoy having this park so close to where I live.

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## Jesseda

> Farmers Market grand opening at the park is tonight (May 5th) from 4-7 PM.
> 
> Really going to enjoy having this park so close to where I live.


I plan on going when I get off work, I just hope they have more than a couple vendors for Thursday evening.

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## dankrutka



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