# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Tulsa & Suburbs >  Pawhuska - The Pioneer Woman Mercantile

## Dustin

Has anyone been?  

https://www.themercantile.com/

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## Eric

I haven't actually been, but driven by last weekend. Friday after Thanksgiving morning there were two significant lines to get in at 10:00 am or so. One for the restaurant/bakery, the other just to get into the shop. Both were roughly 200 feet long. It was pretty crazy to see especially in Pawhuska.

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## Bellaboo

Yes, we went the second weekend. Got pictures made with Ree and her husband 'The Marlboro Man' as she calls him. It's a great place but was very crowded. Lines to get into the restaurant were a 3 hour wait, the line to get into the building was an hour wait. The Mecantile was worth the trip and a lot of fun. The food in the bakery on the top floor was not expensive at all and pretty darn good.

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## BG918

Pawhuska is an interesting small town with a small but intact downtown where this is located.  It's fairly isolated and only accessible via state highways.  If you're making the 2.5 hour trip from OKC I would take 44 then 64 north to 99 up through Cleveland and Hominy.  It's a scenic route through the western edge of the Osage Hills really forested near Keystone Lake and then thins out to open rolling prairie closer to Pawhuska

Also worth seeing in the area is thr Tallgrass Prairie Preserve north of town.  Also in Osage County but closer to Bartlesville is Woolaroc (great for kids with the animals and museum).

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## Bellaboo

When we went, we went up I-35 to HWY 60 to Ponca City. We went a scenic route over the Kaw Lake dam then went on to Pawhuska. You will also see the entrance to the 'Drummand Ranch' going this route. It took us exactly 2:15 minutes travel time from OKC and no toll roads..

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## traxx

Pawhuksa is kind of a neat little town. I find it interesting though that there's very little street view of Pawhuska on google maps.

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## Bellaboo

The 5 story building across the street from the Pioneer Woman Mercantile is being developed by the Drummand's as a bed and breakfast of some sorts.

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## SoonerDave

Realizing no one has posted to this thread in a while, I thought I'd offer a little travelog and review of our experience from yesterday (7 August 2017).

My wife had wanted to go to The Merc since the day it opened; but with waits going on three hours or more, we opted to hold off until the crowds thinned out. 

They haven't. 

So, with her summer dwindling and an unexpected open day available on the calendar, we set out on our own trip to experience The Merc...

We tried to plan strategically; reviews on Trip Advisor and similar sites strongly suggested that if you arrive for lunch by 10AM, you can expect a wait of about an hour. So we planned a 2-1/2 hour trip up, leaving at 7:30. Unfortunately, somehow, we lost a half-hour, hitting I-35's northbound rush hour volume at exactly the wrong time. Also, our planned route was spoiled when we found that the PikePass lane on eastbound US412 at northbound US177 was set up such that it was physically impossible to use the access loop to US177. We were forced another ten minutes out of our way to use SH18 all the way to US 60, and on into Pawhuska. Trip time - right at three hours. Parking was a non-issue; despite the crowd, we had no trouble finding a parking spot on a Pawhuska municipal lot about a half-block south of the Merc, making for a trivially short walk back. The Merc is located on the northeast corner of US 60 and Kihekah avenue, with the parking lot just across US 60 and on the west side of Kihekah. One proviso: There are no traffic or pedestrian controls at the intersection, so be cautious crossing the street!!!

We apparently met with a larger than expected Monday crowd, because one of the Merc staffers that visit with people waiting in line started commenting to us that "someone must have left a memo for everyone to show up today." I overheard a few people making similar comments, indicating the crowd was bigger than average for a Monday. So it's at least theoretically possible showing up at 10:00 wouldn't have helped so much. Our lesson about trip planning was thus - 10AM meant 10AM, and not 10:15m, and nt 10:30. From the time we landed in line at approximately 10:35AM to the time we were seated? A whopping 2:40. 

The waiting line, which starts at the Merc's west entrance, snakes back south approximately halfway to the corner and then back to the north, well beyond the Merc's space just past a Lorec Furniture store, and then snakes back down to the south toward the intersection, and then back east. They've tried valiantly to prepare for the heat: misting fans are set up where the line snakes near the entrance, water is handed out to waiting guests, and tents shield most of the "almost in" line. 

The restaurant space of The Merc, discounting the kitchen, occupies approximately half - maybe less - of the first floor, and includes a "grab and go" line for quick-service box lunches for those who don't want to wait for the full service restaurant. The retail space occupies the rest, which begins generally at the corner of the building and occupies the rest of the space to the east. Upstairs is the bakery with *lots* of open seating. The attention to finish detail and decor is a monument to Ree Drummond's tenacity - even the restrooms are nicely appointed and are well-kept. And the fact that the Drummond's themselves frequent the site to say hi to guests speaks well of their appreciation for those who make the trip - Ladd was there visiting with diners just before we were seated.

And now for the obligatory food review. 

Can any destination restaurant really provide food of the quality that a nearly 3-hour wait might engender? Probably not, and in all honesty, The Merc falls in line. The food is not bad at all, but could I in all honesty tell someone it was truly worth a 3-hour drive and a 3-hour wait? Probably not. That's not to say the food isn't *good*, but if you go in expecting to be wowed because you drove three hours and then waited in line three more....hmmmm....I dunno. It's so subjective it's almost not fair to say. I'll share what we had and you can draw your own conclusions:

* For me, there's a special treat in chicken fried steak - and given its necessarily calorie-monstrous count, it's an indulgence I only do once or twice a year. My gold-standard for chicken fry is Babe's Chicken in Arlington, TX, with the same from Lambert's in Missouri a close second, so The Merc had stiff competition going in. After consideration, I opted to take my once-a-year diet splurge and ordered the Chicken Fried Steak and "creamiest" Mashed Potatoes "ever" (17). 

The menu clearly offers that their chicken fry is made from a ribeye steak rather than a more traditional cube steak, which was a little surprising. I'm no meat expert, but I'm reasonably sure ribeyes tend to be a bit fattier than cube steaks, and that's not always the best choice for a chicken fry. Mine arrived nice and hot, but the nice, crunchy breading was sliding off the meat, and a couple of forkfuls had just a bit of that extra ribeye fat that, for me, wasn't the tastiest part of the meal. The potatoes, which are certainly made from the recipe Ree Drummond has made on her show more than once, surely reflect the richness of the added cream cheese, but I'm not sure that adding whole milk wouldn't have accomplished the same thing. They tasted very good,  but they could have tolerated a few more minutes of mashing. The gravy was...good...Not spectacular. Just good.

Overall, The Merc's chicken fry was good...not great, and not on that gold level with Babe's or Lambert's, and especially so consider its relatively hefty pricetag. 

My wife, on the other hand, had the "White Lasagna with Garlic Toast," (13) which amounts to a vegetable lasagna with a "creamy parmesan" sauce that looked like a halfway compromise between conventional lasagna sauce and alfredo sauce. She told me it was a bit dry, and the spoonful I sampled would lead me to agree. It was served in a cast-iron "skillet bowl," and in proportion was only about half the size of my chicken fry. The toast was a baguette roll sliced in half and toasted a bit more than I would like, but just the way *she* likes it (go figure). On balance, asked about her overall opinion, she liked it - said it wasn't bad, but if she returned in the near future, she'd want to try something else. 

The Merc's menu offered several appetizers, including a popular item called "Olive Bread." We were planning a second-tier splurge at the bakery later, so we opted to pass on the appetizers. Most, like spinach-artichoke dip or nachos, seemed fairly conventional. 

The one disappointment? It's a minor hiccup, to be sure, but the hot rolls that accompanied my chicken fry dinner were literally out-of-the-refrigerator cold. Not just "sat on the table too long and no longer hot from the oven" cool, but *refrigerator* cold to the touch. Obviously, rolls are prepared early in the day, stored, and brought out as each meal requires. The disappointment for me was seeing this terrific *looking* "hot" roll and ready to dive in the the provided pat of butter, only to grab a stone-cold wad of dough. I mentioned it to the waitress in a "well, its no big deal but it was still a little disappointing" mode, and thought maybe she'd give us one with our leftover boxes, but no such luck. But, as I said, minor quibble. 

Overall, with small 50/50 sweet teas, our lunch check was $27. The service was busy, but good, and the food was generally good. Portion sizes were enough to warrant take-home boxes. 

After eating, we browsed the Merc retail space, which was more of a wife thing than something I enjoyed. I found it to be much kitschier than I expected - lots of odds-and-ends retail novelties you could pick up most anywhere. Some glassware and dishsets were interesting, but overall that part of the Merc was lost on me. My wife picked up a kitchen towel, a tiny music box, and a decorative cellophane wrap dispenser box. And I know I got out of there cheaper than most guys  :Smile:   :Smile: 

The upstairs bakery, for us, was the genuine disappointment of the day. I looked forward to a piece of some wonderful-looking carrot cake featured on one photo, but none was to be found; not even the chocolate pie, in person, looked very compelling compared to the photos. The overall selection was just lacking - a handful of cookie varieties, but nothing particularly distinctive. And none of the cakes listed on the restaurant's dessert menu were available, which was inexplicable to me. We left with only an orange marmalade muffin, a snickerdoodle cookie, a s'more "rice cereal" treat, and a "knock you naked" brownie - which, sadly, didn't, for either my wife or myself (but that's a different story). 

As we left, we took our "official" ticket to see the Lodge house where most of "The Pioneer Woman" episodes are shot. Tours are not offered every day, but they were on Monday, and were run until about 4pm. Getting there is interesting, requiring a 6-mile trek down a gravel road ending with a sharp turn down a twisty trail, but it was worth it; the view back to the east was a delightfully surprising vista of slightly-rolling Oklahoma hillside and horses, making for great pictures. The Lodge itself is just as it might seem on TV, but with a huge secondary prep kitchen presumably for the production of multiple versions of dishes prepared for broadcast production. As for the rest, it's really just a nice house with several bedrooms, and guests can take their picture behind the stove where Ree works her magic  :Smile: 

We left at approximately 4pm and made our way back to OKC having had a nice day trip to Pawhuska and a fun day with The Merc "experience." It's tremendous to see what its done for Pawhuska, and represents a fun day for a middle-aged couple who enjoy Ree Drummond's show. You'll invariably strike up a conversation from someone out of state, which reminds you just how widespread her popularity is - we visited with people from Washington, Alabama, Kansas, and Florida who had made The Merc a destination on their vacations. If you enjoy Ree Drummond's show, you owe it to yourself to make the day-trip investment and check it out. It was a really fun day with my Mrs.

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## RadicalModerate

^^^That.^^^ (with apologies to Sooner Dave, et. al.)

OUR primary reason for visiting "The Merc" was almost exactly as we expected it to be. Except that we were ten minutes late by the clock and on the way to Dinner Theater in Dewey. We put the pedal to the metal, set the Cruise Control for 3mph over the posted limit and rolled up I-35 to the Ponca City exit right on time.  

Dewey, OK (about five minutes north of Bartlesville, on 75 home of the famous Price Tower, a couple of decent restaurants, a train museum and a fairly OK motel/hotel that hasn't changed its name) 

On the way, we wondered and marveled at the New Age Windmill Installations between I-35 and The Drummond Ranch Gate that we had seen before. I made a mental note to take a photo of The Old Pumping Units as compared to The Giant Windmills that now dotted the formerly pristine landscape. 

Then there is Pawhuska. When you tire of waiting in long lines for a possible mediocre meal at The Merc, take heart! Woolaroc is an easy drive a few miles to the sorta south and, in fact, Pawhuska presents many photo ops. It is a great place to be. Especially The Merc.

(I took lots of photos . . . yet maybe, sometimes, a few well chosen words are worth a thousand pictures. or maybe not. =~)

Again: Sincere Thanks to Sooner Dave.

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## RadicalModerate

Pawhuska, in particular The Mercantile (aka The Merc)  ain't for the faint o' heart. Among the collection of stuff for sale is The Universal Standard for Measurement of Bigger and Smaller. 
Photo1856.jpg

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## RadicalModerate

And, if you want to Cowboy Up, there is this 
Photo1850.jpg

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## RadicalModerate

Not to mention a bakery display that rivals the ones at Ingrid's (both locations) and La Baguette.
019.JPG

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## RadicalModerate

I think it was Will Rogers who once quipped: "I never saw so much stuff that I didn't need." Without arguing, I'd have to say that I almost bought this for a license plate on my front bumper. That how good it was. 
Attachment 14064

There is an old sayin' that goes somethin' like this: "Texas is a whole 'nother Country."  To me, Pawhuska--not just The Merc--is like a taste of what Oklahoma used t' be. And that--in my opinion only--ain't a "bad thing."

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## RadicalModerate

btw: The Art Museum, now housed in the Old Firehouse, immediately adjacent to City Hall, on the way back from The Merc to The Free Parking Lot ain't too shabby neither. I would have asked if it was OK to take a couple of photographs of some of the sculptures that rivaled those at the Gilcrease and Philbrook yet that might have been misconstrued as "rude" or "rube" behavior.  So I didn't.

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## Zuplar

My wife and I went on our way up to Wichita 4 months back. Huge lines, but I do have to say it was worth it only because we got to meet Ree and have her sign the new book that my wife had to have. Ladd was also walking around and was just as friendly as you had hoped for. Seems like they do this on most weekends, which IMO is pretty cool of them.

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## Eric

Ree is a Bartlesville native, and stories about her disdain for small towns abound endlessly, which align with her move to Chicago. She is generally viewed as a bit of a two face and about as believable as a politician.

That being said, what she has done for that community has been pretty remarkable. And I don't mean that in the sense of what George Kaiser is doing for Tulsa, but just the mere presence of The Merc has likely triggered the opening of probably a dozen other places in the immediate area, not to mention the dozens of B&B's that are opening up. 

Personally it is an experience that I am happy to have had only once. I will likely never again make a trip on my own to visit. 

Recently my wife stopped in Waco on the way further south. They spent nearly a day in the area around the Magnolia Market At The Silos (Chip & Joana Gaines place of HGTV fame). It is different in that it is primarily a market. But they have a park with several food trucks around. All I know is my wife was infinitely more impressed with it, than the Merc. And she is into that kind of stuff, much more so than I.

Pawhuska is a neat town, It has a history of being a rather important little town. That time has come and gone, but there is evidence of it all over the place.

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## Bellaboo

For more on Pawhuska and Osage County (and maybe the Drummonds) - read 'Killers of the Flower Moon' - it will open your eyes like never before.

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## Bellaboo

> Ree is a Bartlesville native, and stories about her disdain for small towns abound endlessly, *which align with her move to Chicago*. She is generally viewed as a bit of a two face and about as believable as a politician.
> 
> That being said, what she has done for that community has been pretty remarkable. And I don't mean that in the sense of what George Kaiser is doing for Tulsa, but just the mere presence of The Merc has likely triggered the opening of probably a dozen other places in the immediate area, not to mention the dozens of B&B's that are opening up. 
> 
> Personally it is an experience that I am happy to have had only once. I will likely never again make a trip on my own to visit. 
> 
> Recently my wife stopped in Waco on the way further south. They spent nearly a day in the area around the Magnolia Market At The Silos (Chip & Joana Gaines place of HGTV fame). It is different in that it is primarily a market. But they have a park with several food trucks around. All I know is my wife was infinitely more impressed with it, than the Merc. And she is into that kind of stuff, much more so than I.
> 
> Pawhuska is a neat town, It has a history of being a rather important little town. That time has come and gone, but there is evidence of it all over the place.


I thought she never moved to Chicago. After graduating from USC, she was going to move to Chicago to pursue a masters degree but met Ladd and moved to the ranch.

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## Eric

> I thought she never moved to Chicago. After graduating from USC, she was going to move to Chicago to pursue a masters degree but met Ladd and moved to the ranch.


You're right. LA is where she left for originally. She's never at the forefront of my mind, so I'm sure I mix up the story often.

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## Dustin

> Ree is a Bartlesville native, and stories about her disdain for small towns abound endlessly, which align with her move to Chicago. She is generally viewed as a bit of a two face and about as believable as a politician.


I see comments on the Food Network facebook all the time about how her smile seems disingenuous, and I can see what they are taking about.  It's almost like her face is frozen in a perpetual smile.  Is a little unnerving...

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## Paseofreak

Spent a little time in Pawhuska. It was cool. I'm a huge non-native fan of Oklahoma history and places.  Saw this lady on TV a bunch of times and just simply cannot stand to watch her hoked up bulls**t. From the first second it looks like made up crap. It's just so awful to see that hoax as a representation of Oklahoma, and I have spent years in rural areas she's trying to emulate. Bulls**t! Just my opinion, but factually turns my stomach.

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## Bellaboo

> Spent a little time in Pawhuska. It was cool. I'm a huge non-native fan of Oklahoma history and places.  Saw this lady on TV a bunch of times and just simply cannot stand to watch her hoked up bulls**t. From the first second it looks like made up crap. It's just so awful to see that hoax as a representation of Oklahoma, and I have spent years in rural areas she's trying to emulate. Bulls**t! Just my opinion, but factually turns my stomach.


Someone must like her and her bull****. Her net worth is over 8 million as a result from her show.

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## Zuplar

This has really turned into a smear campaign. Do I think anyone that is famous for stuff like this 100% genuine all the time. Definitely not. But I don't know about you but sometimes I have bad days and people at work probably think I'm faking it those days. And they'd be right. Unfortunately for Ree, being in the spot light means you are held to a different standard. Just my last 2 cents, cause I'm done coming in here reading this garbage about a family who at the very least has helped promote a positive image for this state.

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## traxx

> For more on Pawhuska and Osage County (and maybe the Drummonds) - read 'Killers of the Flower Moon' - *it will open your eyes like never before*.


How so?

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## Swake

> Someone must like her and her bull****. Her net worth is over 8 million as a result from her show.


That's like a rounding error on how much the Drummonds are worth.

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## Eric

> That's like a rounding error on how much the Drummonds are worth.


Very much true. They own land in Osage county like most people couldn't even fathom. I had heard at one point it exceded 25,000 acres. In addition to the actual livestock and buildings and equipment, yes I would dare to say that Ree is the "poorer" of the two spouses believe it or not.

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## mugofbeer

> Spent a little time in Pawhuska. It was cool. I'm a huge non-native fan of Oklahoma history and places.  Saw this lady on TV a bunch of times and just simply cannot stand to watch her hoked up bulls**t. From the first second it looks like made up crap. It's just so awful to see that hoax as a representation of Oklahoma, and I have spent years in rural areas she's trying to emulate. Bulls**t! Just my opinion, but factually turns my stomach.


lWow! Reading this "opinion" somewhat turns my stomach.  Typical of a segment who just can't seem to handle when someone  else finds some financial success.   The envy just screams.   Unless you know her or her business with some personal knowledge, maybe you should abide by the old saying, "if you can't find anything nice to say about someone then dont say anythi g at all?"  The two times I've met her, she was extremely polite and friendly despite being obviously very  tired.

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## Eric

> lWow! Reading this "opinion" somewhat turns my stomach.  Typical of a segment who just can't seem to handle when someone  else finds some financial success.   The envy just screams.   Unless you know her or her business with some personal knowledge, maybe you should abide by the old saying, "if you can't find anything nice to say about someone then dont say anythi g at all?"  The two times I've met her, she was extremely polite and friendly despite being obviously very  tired.


Generally my opinion has been formed by those that knew her as a child. Her own words:




> I grew up on the seventh fairway of a golf course in an oil town in Oklahoma. The daughter of an orthopedic surgeon, I spent the school year submerging myself in classical ballet…and the summertime submerging myself in the chlorinated water of the country-club pool. My mother and I had season tickets to the opera in a neighboring city, and thanks to theater trips to New York, I knew every Broadway song ever written. I was a bona fide city girl.


I will say though that her brother, Mike, is as genuine a person that there is. Have seen him around town several times and sat and spoke with him a few times. He didn't know me, but would converse with me like he was totally interested in my life and had known me for years. In case you don't know I think Mike has a bit of Down's or something. He's a bit of a local celeb are far more loved than Ree will ever be.



http://thepioneerwoman.com/confessions/it_takes_a_vill/

I think Ree is probably fairly on point here.

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## Swake

> Very much true. They own land in Osage county like most people couldn't even fathom. I had heard at one point it exceded 25,000 acres. In addition to the actual livestock and buildings and equipment, yes I would dare to say that Ree is the "poorer" of the two spouses believe it or not.



No, that's terribly understating it. They are the 19th largest landholders in the country with 433,000 acres. And that's after they sold a huge chunk of the land to Ted Turner. If the land is worth say $5k per acre, that means the ranch alone is worth more than $2 billion. 
http://www.landreport.com/2016/04/20...ummond-family/

Her business is a rounding error.

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## Eric

> No, that's terribly understating it. They are the 19th largest landholders in the country with 433,000 acres. And that's after they sold a huge chunk of the land to Ted Turner. If the land is worth say $5k per acre, that means the ranch alone is worth more than $2 billion. 
> http://www.landreport.com/2016/04/20...ummond-family/
> 
> Her business is a rounding error.


I may have only been looking at one of the Drummond's, not all of them cumulatively. I'll take your word for it. All i know for a fact is they own a ton of land as a family. To put that number into perspective. The whole of Osage county, which is a really big county constitutes 1.47 million acres. So the Drummond's own a little less than 1/3rd of it. Now, they own land outside of Osage county obviously, but the largest concentration is there I believe. $5k seems like a lot, but I would say a conservative estimate would be about half of that. Some may be worth that, but surely not all of it. There are some pretty remote areas of Osage county that don't particularly demand top dollar. I've seen large tracts improved with homes (500+ acres), barns & arenas go for under $2,500/acre near Pawhuska.

Now that being said, I know they sold a few hundred acres around Skiatook a while back, but they subdivided, so I'm sure they got WAY more than $5k/acre. 

None of this distracts from the point that Ree married well, not the other way around.

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## mugofbeer

Wow!  The vast land holdings is news to me.  Very interesting.  No matter.  They are obviously hard working people who are investing back into their community.

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## Swake

> I may have only been looking at one of the Drummond's, not all of them cumulatively. I'll take your word for it. All i know for a fact is they own a ton of land as a family. To put that number into perspective. The whole of Osage county, which is a really big county constitutes 1.47 million acres. So the Drummond's own a little less than 1/3rd of it. Now, they own land outside of Osage county obviously, but the largest concentration is there I believe. $5k seems like a lot, but I would say a conservative estimate would be about half of that. Some may be worth that, but surely not all of it. There are some pretty remote areas of Osage county that don't particularly demand top dollar. I've seen large tracts improved with homes (500+ acres), barns & arenas go for under $2,500/acre near Pawhuska.
> 
> Now that being said, I know they sold a few hundred acres around Skiatook a while back, but they subdivided, so I'm sure they got WAY more than $5k/acre. 
> 
> None of this distracts from the point that Ree married well, not the other way around.


$5k was a wild guess that meets what most rural land in northeast OK goes for. Anyway, it's a ton of money, it's a large family but they also have a lot money outside of just the land. One of the Drummond's recently bought Tulsa's McBirney Mansion for more than $2 million. They don't have money like Kaiser, the Shustermans, The Warrens or the  Cadieuxes but in the Tulsa area, they are still really big money, a. billion or more in the family.

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## SoonerDave

> Generally my opinion has been formed by those that knew her as a child. Her own words:
> 
> 
> 
> I will say though that her brother, Mike, is as genuine a person that there is. Have seen him around town several times and sat and spoke with him a few times. He didn't know me, but would converse with me like he was totally interested in my life and had known me for years. In case you don't know I think Mike has a bit of Down's or something. He's a bit of a local celeb are far more loved than Ree will ever be.
> 
> 
> 
> http://thepioneerwoman.com/confessions/it_takes_a_vill/
> ...


So she likes ballet and classical music, and that alone makes her some sort of fake? That quote is hardly a smoking gun. It's not like she came out and trashed small towns and called everyone in them some sort of filthy name. For heaven's sake, she abandoned that life to marry the man she fell in love with, so while she's obviously not the "average" small town citizen by any means, it hardly seems she's a *complete* phony - or surely unfair to make that inference based solely on that quote. 

Look, I'm no "groupie," and I'm at best a passing fan - my wife is the one who enjoys trying her recipes because they are simple and, generally, they work out fairly well. I also realize how TV manipulates the impressions and perceptions of people, and who knows - maybe off camera she is a ravening witch who spews small-town hatred from the second she's off camera. I just have a hard time believing it, and I"m going to give her the benefit of the doubt. No one is forcing her or her husband to go to the restaurant and store and visit the people who are spending money there, there are no TV cameras filming it as a photo-op or promo for her show, or for one of her cookbooks, and to the extent we can see her public personal she is arguably as much or more genuine than most of the food-related "celebs" out there. At some point, if she's really that much a fake, it's on her conscience, not mine.

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## Bellaboo

> How so?


You will have to read the book. It's how the FBI got credibility. What really happened to the richest group of people on the continent in the 1920's & '30's. I've loaned it out several times and everyone that's read it is shocked.

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## Eric

> So she likes ballet and classical music, and that alone makes her some sort of fake? That quote is hardly a smoking gun. It's not like she came out and trashed small towns and called everyone in them some sort of filthy name. For heaven's sake, she abandoned that life to marry the man she fell in love with, so while she's obviously not the "average" small town citizen by any means, it hardly seems she's a *complete* phony - or surely unfair to make that inference based solely on that quote. 
> 
> Look, I'm no "groupie," and I'm at best a passing fan - my wife is the one who enjoys trying her recipes because they are simple and, generally, they work out fairly well. I also realize how TV manipulates the impressions and perceptions of people, and who knows - maybe off camera she is a ravening witch who spews small-town hatred from the second she's off camera. I just have a hard time believing it, and I"m going to give her the benefit of the doubt. No one is forcing her or her husband to go to the restaurant and store and visit the people who are spending money there, there are no TV cameras filming it as a photo-op or promo for her show, or for one of her cookbooks, and to the extent we can see her public personal she is arguably as much or more genuine than most of the food-related "celebs" out there. At some point, if she's really that much a fake, it's on her conscience, not mine.


All I'm saying is it is no coincidence you will not see the same type of billboards for the most famous person from the area in a long time. But you will for her brother. Think about that for a second. We don't exactly have a lot of celebs up here, and more than most we almost downplay the fact that she is from here. She only seems to be a celebrity outside of this area. Not sure what they think of her in Pawhuska though so... And her brother was "famous" before Ree was, because he was always at the mall or whatnot just talking with people. Getting to know them. I know it's likely cause he is "different" but still, he doesn't have to. He cares. He has heart. It is a noticeable thing you know. While you can say you think people are hard on her for being famous (maybe some are), I don't just discount the feelings and opinions of a lot of people that knew her growing up, and as an adult.

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## BG918

> $5k was a wild guess that meets what most rural land in northeast OK goes for. Anyway, it's a ton of money, it's a large family but they also have a lot money outside of just the land. One of the Drummond's recently bought Tulsa's McBirney Mansion for more than $2 million. They don't have money like Kaiser, the Shustermans, The Warrens or the  Cadieuxes but in the Tulsa area, they are still really big money, a. billion or more in the family.


Gentner and Wendy Drummond live in Tulsa and bought the McBirney Mansion.  They are active donors to lots of local causes.  The Drummond family donated most of the 160 acres of land where the Tulsa Botanic Garden sits in the Osage County portion of Tulsa.

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## Bellaboo

Anyone ever wonder 'how' they go all of that land ? 

Not that I know for sure..... but ???  I wouldn't be surprised.

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## Swake

> Anyone ever wonder 'how' they go all of that land ? 
> 
> Not that I know for sure..... but ???  I wouldn't be surprised.



It's a good question, I will ask. I don't think it was by the Osage Murders. That was over headrights, which are the real money in Osage County.

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## traxx

> Anyone ever wonder 'how' they go all of that land ? 
> 
> Not that I know for sure..... but ???  I wouldn't be surprised.


IIRC the land has been handed down by generation. I'm sure someone can find somewhere on the internet that tells of how they originally got it by lying, stealing and killing as this thread seems to have turned into a smear campaign on Ree and the Drummonds. 

I don't know Ree from Adam (or is it Eve in this case) but it seems every time someone mentions her in Oklahoma, there's someone who knows someone who knows her or knew her when she was younger and says she's a total fake. I don't know that her saying she was a city girl at one time constitutes her being a fake. After all, on the intro to the show, she says she's an accidental country girl. I don't think she hides it or makes any bones about this was never the life she planned on having when she was young.

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## Swake

> IIRC the land has been handed down by generation. I'm sure someone can find somewhere on the internet that tells of how they originally got it by lying, stealing and killing as this thread seems to have turned into a smear campaign on Ree and the Drummonds. 
> 
> I don't know Ree from Adam (or is it Eve in this case) but it seems every time someone mentions her in Oklahoma, there's someone who knows someone who knows her or knew her when she was younger and says she's a total fake. I don't know that her saying she was a city girl at one time constitutes her being a fake. After all, on the intro to the show, she says she's an accidental country girl. I don't think she hides it or makes any bones about this was never the life she planned on having when she was young.



At the same time the tribe became very wealthy in the early 20th century the Federal Government forced the tribe to divide the land into allotments. Each allotment came with a share of the shared oil profits, called headrights. The Osage Murders were over the headrights. 

With that new money coming in from oil headrights a good portion of the tribe moved to California. Much of the rest started to build houses in and near Hominy, Pawhuska and Gray Horse, the three tribal towns today. 

I am guessing the Drummonds had some money and were able to buy allotment land very cheaply from Osages that were either leaving the county or were moving to town. I’m not saying there was nothing dirty done by the Drummonds, it’s highly likely there was. I just haven’t heard about it. I do know there’s not a lot of love between the Osage and the Drummonds today. 

My father in law is an Osage Congressman and also one of the largest landowners in Osage County. I will ask him. I’m sure he knows, for good or bad. He was one of the people interviewed for the recent book on the Osage Murders.

I will warn the Ree Drummond fans on here, it's really likely you aren't going to like what I find out.

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## Doug Loudenback

I sometimes watch Ree's cooking show and have noticed the ever present smile, but some of her recipes ain't bad and she has certainly put Pawhuska on the map. Has she been harmful to any of you in this thread? Why be as personal as some of you have been? Life's to short, imo.

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## CCOKC

It's so nice to have you back on the forum Doug. Such a positive outlook to everything.

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## SoonerDave

> I will warn the Ree Drummond fans on here, it's really likely you aren't going to like what I find out.


About her, specifically, or her kids, or her husband? Or about some part of history to which their name is attached? Substantial difference in my mind. 

I seriously doubt Ree or Ladd Drummond murdered anyone. Seriously. 

I fully expect that her persona is refined considerably for TV, but the edginess seen in this thread on the part of some to just pounce on her is pretty...interesting. And I realize even saying that makes me sound like I'm sort of over-the-top sycophant, which I'm not - I'd likely never have set foot in Pawhuska or made a 3-hour drive there if not to make my wife happy.....just seems like there are lots of folks here who'd like everyone else to hate her. Don't get that...at all.

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## SoonerDave

> I sometimes watch Ree's cooking show and have noticed the ever present smile, but some of her recipes ain't bad and she has certainly put Pawhuska on the map. Has she been harmful to any of you in this thread? Why be as personal as some of you have been? Life's to short, imo.


Amen. And 2nd on the "glad to see you!"

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## SoonerDave

> IIRC the land has been handed down by generation. I'm sure someone can find somewhere on the internet that tells of how they originally got it by lying, stealing and killing as this thread seems to have turned into a smear campaign on Ree and the Drummonds. 
> 
> I don't know Ree from Adam (or is it Eve in this case) but it seems every time someone mentions her in Oklahoma, there's someone who knows someone who knows her or knew her when she was younger and says she's a total fake. I don't know that her saying she was a city girl at one time constitutes her being a fake. After all, on the intro to the show, she says she's an accidental country girl. I don't think she hides it or makes any bones about this was never the life she planned on having when she was young.


Exactly - that's why I don't get all the venom. She makes *no bones* about the fact she didn't plan small-town life. She was apparently planning to go to law school in Chicago when she met Ladd. Heck, she's leveraged that very fact into a cottage industry - not like she's hidden it and is pretending to be something she isn't.

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## Bellaboo

> At the same time the tribe became very wealthy in the early 20th century the Federal Government forced the tribe to divide the land into allotments. Each allotment came with a share of the shared oil profits, called headrights. The Osage Murders were over the headrights. 
> 
> With that new money coming in from oil headrights a good portion of the tribe moved to California. Much of the rest started to build houses in and near Hominy, Pawhuska and Gray Horse, the three tribal towns today. 
> 
> I am guessing the Drummonds had some money and were able to buy allotment land very cheaply from Osages that were either leaving the county or were moving to town. I’m not saying there was nothing dirty done by the Drummonds, it’s highly likely there was. I just haven’t heard about it. I do know there’s not a lot of love between the Osage and the Drummonds today. 
> 
> My father in law is an Osage Congressman and also one of the largest landowners in Osage County. I will ask him. I’m sure he knows, for good or bad. He was one of the people interviewed for the recent book on the Osage Murders.
> 
> I will warn the Ree Drummond fans on here, it's really likely you aren't going to like what I find out.


If you read my first post in this thread, you'll see i'm a big fan of Ree and Ladd. But after reading the book, it makes you wonder about the headrights. The young Irish immigrant, the first Drummond, went to work at the Merchantile in the late 1800's as a 23 year old clerk. I don't know the rest of the story, but the way the Osage were taken advantage of by poisioning, manipulation and theft of headrights by white males it makes you wonder how they amassed a fortune and wealth of land. Didn't they get paid a cool million $$$ by the Feds for the wild horse program ? Not sure if it's true but this is what I read. 

As a side note,  I have absolutely no idea if the first Drummond was involved, and we all know the current family would have had nothing to do with what happened in the past.

The book 'Killers of the Flower Moon' is a non fiction, and very eye opening read.

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## Eric

This is completely shooting from the hip, but I think more than anything having a lot of male children that were really smart and interested in ranching probably was the single most important factor in their growth. We're not talking about hillbilly ranchers here, we're talking Harvard educated ranchers. And yes 400k+ is a lot of land. But that is cumulative. There are a bunch of Drummond's, with more reasonable holdings of land. I know grain farmers in the Midwest that own 10's of thousands of acres. I know that ain't 400k, but if they each had a slew of farmer sons/daughters and 100+ years to accumulate it, it could happen. 

To my recollection, I have never heard the Drummond name mentioned with any of the nefarious things that went on in Osage county.

I know some people are critical of how much the receive from the US government to house the wild mustangs, but really I don't think it's enough to make a fortune off of.

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## traxx

I don't get the hate. No one can actually link them with murder but have no problem insinuating that their family is probably responsible for some of the murders in the '20s. And in my mind's eye, I can see Swake devilishly rubbing hands together like Mr. Burns when he says "I will warn the Ree Drummond fans on here, it's really likely you aren't going to like what I find out."

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## Swake

> This is completely shooting from the hip, but I think more than anything having a lot of male children that were really smart and interested in ranching probably was the single most important factor in their growth. We're not talking about hillbilly ranchers here, we're talking Harvard educated ranchers. And yes 400k+ is a lot of land. But that is cumulative. There are a bunch of Drummond's, with more reasonable holdings of land. I know grain farmers in the Midwest that own 10's of thousands of acres. I know that ain't 400k, but if they each had a slew of farmer sons/daughters and 100+ years to accumulate it, it could happen. 
> 
> To my recollection, I have never heard the Drummond name mentioned with any of the nefarious things that went on in Osage county.
> 
> I know some people are critical of how much the receive from the US government to house the wild mustangs, but really I don't think it's enough to make a fortune off of.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/archives/r...be1a731e6.html

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## Swake

> I don't get the hate. No one can actually link them with murder but have no problem insinuating that their family is probably responsible for some of the murders in the '20s. And in my mind's eye, I can see Swake devilishly rubbing hands together like Mr. Burns when he says "I will warn the Ree Drummond fans on here, it's really likely you aren't going to like what I find out."


The history of Osage County isn't good. The Drummond came out winners from a ugly place and time in our state's history. How did they do that? The current Drummond family had nothing to do with it, it's not on them. It's just history.

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## Doug Loudenback

> Amen. And 2nd on the "glad to see you!"


Aw shucks, and glad to be back.

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## traxx

> The history of Osage County isn't good. The Drummond came out winners from a ugly place and time in our state's history. *How did they do that?*


That's the question that no one on here seems to want to answer. Everyone is just insinuating. Is there hard evidence, legal documents, etc. that says they murdered people?

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## Swake

> That's the question that no one on here seems to want to answer. Everyone is just insinuating. Is there hard evidence, legal documents, etc. that says they murdered people?


I doubt they murdered anyone, I would think that would be known. Lie, cheat and steal from the Osage to take land is more what I am guessing.

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## Bellaboo

> I doubt they murdered anyone, I would think that would be known. Lie, cheat and steal from the Osage to take land is more what I am guessing.


All i'll say is read the book. The book spans about 4 years. The murders went on for 10 years prior and well after the four years outlined in the book. 

I have no idea, but most in the county that was non indian seemed to gain.

A white man could deem an Osage incompetent and be appointed custodian of their money and affairs. Think about that. If they were convicted of murder of an Osage or any tribal indian for that matter, 'since it was just an indian', they only got 10 years max in jail.

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## traxx

> I have no idea, but most in the county that was non indian seemed to gain.


See, you keep saying things like this. You say that you don't know but then go on to insinuate that the Drummonds were involved in nefarious dealings. It just doesn't add up to me. If all this took place in the '20s and it was over oil, it just doesn't make sense for the Drummonds. They started ranching well before this happened and they were/are ranchers, not oil men. Again, I don't know any of the Drummonds and have no reason to defend them other than this just seems to be a smear campaign by a bunch of people who have no hard facts to back up their assertions that the Drummonds are evil people who killed, lied, cheated, and stole land.

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## Bellaboo

> See, you keep saying things like this. You say that you don't know but then go on to insinuate that the Drummonds were involved in nefarious dealings. It just doesn't add up to me. If all this took place in the '20s and it was over oil, it just doesn't make sense for the Drummonds. They started ranching well before this happened and they were/are ranchers, not oil men. Again, I don't know any of the Drummonds and have no reason to defend them other than this just seems to be a smear campaign by a bunch of people who have no hard facts to back up their assertions that *the Drummonds are evil people who killed, lied, cheated, and stole land*.


These Drummonds are probably clean in this regard. It's what happened in the late 1800's through the 1930's that I wonder about.

Remember, a white man could deem any Osage incompetent, and be awarded the custodianship of the indian. The book outlines how the Indians lost MILLIONS due to this. Hell, even the doctors are the ones poisoning tribal members so their buddies could get their headrights.

The FBI had to appoint Texas Rangers to clean up the crooked cops, lawyers, doctors, ranchers and sheriffs to get to the bottom of the mess.

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## brianinok

> has a bit of Down's or something.


What an incredibly insensitive thing to say! Down syndrome is a genetic disorder that a person is either has or does not have. If you don't know if someone has it or not it's probably best not to go throwing that kind of language around.

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## Bellaboo

> That's the question that no one on here seems to want to answer. Everyone is just insinuating.* Is there hard evidence, legal documents, etc. that says they murdered people?*




It was a total cover up by just about everyone in power. And when someone (another white person) found out then they were murdered too.

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## Doug Loudenback

I am flabbergasted that some in this thread think that it is so harmlessly inconsequential to gratuitously bandy some particular names around no more importantly than flicking a fly off ones buttocks, under the protection of anonymity, as though it was harmless or meaningless, and with no personal responsibility for one's remarks. It is neither. Words matter. 

As I recall, this thread is about "The Pioneer Woman," not an analysis of her husband's or extended family as being involved in past years alleged, implied or inferred crimes or misdeeds, true or false as they may or may not be.

I ask a favor: when the time comes to directly or indirectly accuse me of something (and perhaps that time will come), if it is within you to do so, please do it to my face.

I may have been mistaken in thinking that the time was right to rejoin OKCTalk. We shall see.

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## stile99

> As I recall, this thread is about "The Pioneer Woman,"


I was just thinking that.  I thought this thread was about The Pioneer Woman/The Mercantile.  Instead, so many of the posts seem to boil down to "the white man screwed the red man, especially in Oklahoma".  I'm shocked for two reasons.  1, I can't find the connection to the subject at hand, and 2, some people had to read a book to figure that one out?

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## Bellaboo

> I was just thinking that.  I thought this thread was about The Pioneer Woman/The Mercantile.  Instead, so many of the posts seem to boil down to "the white man screwed the red man, especially in Oklahoma".  I'm shocked for two reasons.  1, I can't find the connection to the subject at hand, and 2, *some people had to read a book to figure that one out?*




I've been here 64 years, you hear a lot in that time period, but when it becomes factual in black and white, it makes a difference.

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## SOONER8693

> I was just thinking that.  I thought this thread was about The Pioneer Woman/The Mercantile.  Instead, so many of the posts seem to boil down to "the white man screwed the red man, especially in Oklahoma".  I'm shocked for two reasons.  1, I can't find the connection to the subject at hand, and 2, some people had to read a book to figure that one out?


 There are some sad, little people on this board. They want to criticize and tear down anything that might be positive about Oklahoma.

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## Eric

> What an incredibly insensitive thing to say! Down syndrome is a genetic disorder that a person is either has or does not have. If you don't know if someone has it or not it's probably best not to go throwing that kind of language around.


It's not insensitive. I don't know what he is afflicted with, but it kind of reminds me of Downs. I got a kid with his own issues, I don't need lectures from you about sensitivity.

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## Eric

> There are some sad, little people on this board. They want to criticize and tear down anything that might be positive about Oklahoma.


It started out as a critique of Ree's genuine home town girl facade. Which admittedly can't be proven one way or another. Fair or not, the Mercantile is selling that image, not just some home cooked food and kitchen wares. People don't fly from all over the country just to have average southern food and buy really expensive plates.

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## d-usa

So the woman who sells herself as an "accidental small town girl" and admits that she didn't grow up as a small town girl, is deceiving people because she's not country?

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## mugofbeer

Bartlesville is small town to most.  It happens to be a very nice small town.

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## Eric

> So the woman who sells herself as an "accidental small town girl" and admits that she didn't grow up as a small town girl, is deceiving people because she's not country?


All I can say is do you all believe everything you see on TV. For real people.

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## SOONER8693

> It started out as a critique of Ree's genuine home town girl facade. Which admittedly can't be proven one way or another. Fair or not, the Mercantile is selling that image, not just some home cooked food and kitchen wares. People don't fly from all over the country just to have average southern food and buy really expensive plates.


Whatever you say.

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## SoonerDave

> All I can say is do you all believe everything you see on TV. For real people.


Good grief, man, we get it. Did she steal your lunch money while looking at a "big city" travel guide once?

The woman who's plastered within her biographical and mentions in her show's open that she's an "accidental small town girl" and makes plain her original life plan to go to the Big City ended up landing her in a small town is really a lying, horrendous fake who hates small towns. You hate her, she's fake, we should all hate her. We're all over 21, we get that TV isn't 100% authentic, and anyone who thinks she's even 25% authentic is just a dumb sycophant. 

Get a dog. Plant some flowers. Something. Whatever. 

Move on.

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## traxx

> Good grief, man, we get it. Did she steal your lunch money while looking at a "big city" travel guide once?
> 
> The woman who's plastered within her biographical and mentions in her show's open that she's an "accidental small town girl" and makes plain her original life plan to go to the Big City ended up landing her in a small town is really a lying, horrendous fake who hates small towns. You hate her, she's fake, we should all hate her. We're all over 21, we get that TV isn't 100% authentic, and anyone who thinks she's even 25% authentic is just a dumb sycophant. 
> 
> Get a dog. Plant some flowers. Something. Whatever. 
> 
> Move on.


You forgot to add that she killed Indians for their oil. Read that book. It can't be proven but why not make wild assumptions.

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## Bellaboo

> You forgot to add that she killed Indians for their oil. Read that book. It can't be proven but why not make wild assumptions.


You're such a smart guy.........

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## traxx

So now this thread is dead. This thread started out kinda interesting but has been killed because of people having personal vendettas with Ree.

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## d-usa

They killed the thread like the family killed for land...

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## stile99

Read the book*.  It'll really open your eyes.

*Disclaimer: The book doesn't have a damn thing to do with the topic at hand.  But it'll totally open your eyes**.

** Assuming you somehow weren't already aware the native americans REALLY got screwed.

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## Stew

> Read the book*.  It'll really open your eyes.
> 
> *Disclaimer: The book doesn't have a damn thing to do with the topic at hand.  But it'll totally open your eyes**.
> 
> ** Assuming you somehow weren't already aware the native americans REALLY got screwed.


Is this book for sale at the Mecantile?

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## RadicalModerate

As an informal observer (amateur historian, political scientist, social engineer) of human behavior, in the context of  Free Speech Internet Communities and Forums such as this here I just have to interject my Two Cents. As an explorer of many of the finer points of The Great State of Oklahoma, from Broken Bow to Medicine Park even unto Talihina: (Gateway to Mena, AK) and Woolaroc, I am astounded how quickly the discussion of a simple topic such as The Mercantile (in Pawhuska) devolved into dissin' Ree and Ladd vs. Crimes against whomever. On the bright side . . . This thread reminds me, argumentarywise, of the halcyon days of OKCTalk involving Torea (hated railroad noise) vs Thunder (the reminder of all things strange and wonderful) vs Prunepicker (old-line conservative dude). In my opinion only: Don't critique a place you ain't been. Pawhuska is OK. The Mercantile is acceptable. The visit is worth the journey.

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## RadicalModerate

For some reason a thousand of several thousand words (in the form of photos) got lost back around Post #13. The only thing inside The Merc that I thought might be worth buying . . . but it wasn't for sale. I thought it might look good as a Poetic License Plate. =~)

Photo1854.jpg

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## SoonerDave

> For some reason a thousand of several thousand words (in the form of photos) got lost back around Post #13. The only thing inside The Merc that I thought might be worth buying . . . but it wasn't for sale. I thought it might look good as a Poetic License Plate. =~)
> 
> Photo1854.jpg


I have to give my Mrs. a *great* deal of credit for having really good discretion in skipping the general, you-can-really-get-that-anywhere kind of stuff from the hey-thats-kinda-legit stuff. 

I mentioned in my little travelog post that when she picked up the cellophane wrap dispenser, I thought it was a little...goofy...until I realized it was a fairly clever gadget designed for anyone who remembers how those cello dispensers *used* to work, until the safety police got to them, reversed the cutter blade, and made them next to impossible not to gnarl up into a wad. Now it works the way it's supposed to, and it looks nice, LOL  :Smile:

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## traxx

> Is this book for sale at the Mecantile?


lol

Underrated post.

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## Swake

All I am going to say is that it seems the Drummonds have a couple of dozen Osage headrights to go with their land. Make of that what you wish.

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## traxx

> All I am going to say is that it seems the Drummonds have a couple of dozen Osage headrights to go with their land. Make of that what you wish.


I wish to make nothing of it because this is just hearsay and lacks facts.

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## Swake

I will say this. With The Pioneer Woman's fame increasing and a Scorsese/DeCaprio movie being made about the Osage Murders, lots of people are going to start asking these questions. A whole lot of people. The Drummonds apparently have ~200,00 acres in Osage County and two dozen headrights, but aren't Osage.

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## d-usa

It's always "just asking questions"...

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## traxx

> I will say this. With The Pioneer Woman's fame increasing and a Scorsese/DeCaprio movie being made about the Osage Murders, lots of people are going to start asking these questions. A whole lot of people. The Drummonds apparently have ~200,00 acres in Osage County and two dozen headrights, but aren't Osage.


Lots of people on here keep posting these things with the caveat of "I'm just saying." Someone please post definitively that the Drummonds killed and stole from people with hard proof and facts, otherwise it's just slander.

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## SoonerDave

This thread hijack has gotten ridiculous.

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## SOONER8693

> This thread hijack has gotten ridiculous.


Amen!

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## Martin

alright... let's stick to topic.  pioneer woman mercantile, 2017.  if you want to have a discussion about osage county history, start another thread.

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## Plutonic Panda

> As an informal observer (amateur historian, political scientist, social engineer) of human behavior, in the context of  Free Speech Internet Communities and Forums such as this here I just have to interject my Two Cents. As an explorer of many of the finer points of The Great State of Oklahoma, from Broken Bow to Medicine Park even unto Talihina: (Gateway to Mena, AK) and Woolaroc, I am astounded how quickly the discussion of a simple topic such as The Mercantile (in Pawhuska) devolved into dissin' Ree and Ladd vs. Crimes against whomever. On the bright side . . . This thread reminds me, argumentarywise, of the halcyon days of OKCTalk involving Torea (hated railroad noise) vs Thunder (the reminder of all things strange and wonderful) vs Prunepicker (old-line conservative dude). In my opinion only: Don't critique a place you ain't been. Pawhuska is OK. The Mercantile is acceptable. The visit is worth the journey.


You really like Torea. Maybe in a future life, Rad. . .

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## traxx

> alright... let's stick to topic.  pioneer woman mercantile, 2017.  if you want to have a discussion about osage county history, start another thread.


Agree

It was just starting to get back on track before it got hijacked again.

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## Eric

It is incomprehensible that people would wait in line for 2 or 3 hours to eat there.

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## Pete

^

I edited out the part that has nothing to do with this particular business.

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## d-usa

I've seen 2 hour waits at Pops in Arcadia before. Fans will wait for a chance to eat at a destination.

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## Eric

> I've seen 2 hour waits at Pops in Arcadia before. Fans will wait for a chance to eat at a destination.


I guess a better way to put it is, I can't believe people would wait that long for a meal that they could better prepare at home. I honestly am a fan of her cookbook recipes. I have never made one I didn't care for. I know they are simple southern country recipes, but there is just something that makes them slightly better. Probably more butter.  :Wink:

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## d-usa

But they are likely not waiting that long for the food, rather than waiting that long to eat at a destination. 

Hence my comparison to Pops. People aren't waiting that long there for a burger, they are waiting that long to eat at Pops on Route 66.

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## traxx

> But they are likely not waiting that long for the food, rather than waiting that long to eat at a destination. 
> 
> Hence my comparison to Pops. People aren't waiting that long there for a burger, they are waiting that long to eat at Pops on Route 66.


Agree

My younger kids enjoy Pops, but it's for the spectacle. I've never thought their food was that great. I've never been to The Merc or Chip and Joanna Gaines tourist attraction, but I would think it's the same kind of thing. People are going for the spectacle and because they're fans of the TV show rather than because they think they'll get a great meal.

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## SoonerDave

> Agree
> 
> My younger kids enjoy Pops, but it's for the spectacle. I've never thought their food was that great. I've never been to The Merc or Chip and Joanna Gaines tourist attraction, but I would think it's the same kind of thing. People are going for the spectacle and because they're fans of the TV show rather than because they think they'll get a great meal.


That more or less becomes a big Catch-22; people want to eat at the destination because of the spectacle, so the spectacle induces demand, demand induces waits, waits become long, food can't possibly match the hype induced by the wait. So, yes, no one thinks the food is *that* spectacular, but I'd go so far as to say *no place* has food that *really* merits a 3-hour wait. 

I mentioned that in my travelblog in the earlier post; the lunch we had was OK, but not spectacular, but then no place is likely to have food so amazing that it would match up to the expectations created by a 3-hour wait. The food wasn't bad at all - just nothing that left me "wowed" in the sense of "That was the best chicken-fry ever!!" Because it wasn't. Babe's and Lambert's both had it beat, and by a comfortable margin. 

But the trip made my wife happy. And we all know the rest of that saying...  :Smile:   :Smile:

----------

