# Everything Else > Arts & Entertainment >  Joe Exotic Neflix documentary

## Pete

Tiger King -- the documentary on Joe Exotic -- is now live on Netflix.

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## hoya

This is amazing.  Perfect viewing for people stuck at home right now.

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## Pete

I'm most the way through it and it is by far the craziest thing I have ever seen.

Way, way, way stranger than fiction.

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## SEMIweather

Haven't watched the documentary yet, but this Texas Monthly article from June 2019 is absolutely phenomenal, would highly recommend reading.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/article...man-gone-wild/

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## emtefury

Just watched the trailer.  Wow.

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## BBatesokc

It's pretty good. In some ways I think the podcast was better though - or, maybe that's just because the podcast is where I first heard the story so it had more shock value. If you haven't listened to it, give it a try.

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## Pete

I binge-watched all the episodes.

Several scenes from OKC, not only the courthouse but also the rooftop at Packards and what was then Chase Tower.

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## Dustin

That was without a doubt the craziest documentary I have ever watched. So many unanswered questions. Carole definitely killed her husband and fed him to her tigers.

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## dankrutka

Number one show on Netflix right now.

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## BBatesokc

Wonder why the tv show didn't mention details the podcast went into: Example - Joe apparently didn't actually write or sing the songs he released.

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## Bullbear

he use to come to the gay bars in OKC and bring in tiger cubs.. a total nut job.  the show was amazing binge watching and how fortunate that he has everything on tape so it makes it easy for the show.  I am reading now that there is so much footage that they may make a part 2!!!

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## FighttheGoodFight

I came out of the documentary realizing everyone in it needed some serious mental help. That was a wild ride.

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## Stew

> I came out of the documentary realizing everyone in it needed some serious mental help. That was a wild ride.


And dental work as well.

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## FighttheGoodFight

> And dental work as well.


I blame that on Carole.

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## Ross MacLochness

> I binge-watched all the episodes.
> 
> Several scenes from OKC, not only the courthouse but also the rooftop at Packards and what was then Chase Tower.


and a shot of the streetcar driving by the courthouse!

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## emtefury

Tiger King has blown up on memes.  


https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/wild-...135819428.html

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## jn1780

> And dental work as well.


Drugs are bad........


I didn't realize that everyone in that "industry" are either crazy cult leaders or members.

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## Bunty

Not everybody thought Joe was all that different.  At a governor's debate Joe participated in, candidate and former state senator, Connie Johnson, said it was really her who was the most different.

I'll admit, I found some of the points Joe made at the debate made good sense.  It might be good if part 2 included some of his moments during those governor debates, if part 1 didn't.  He was such a colorful character, but too bad how he made too many very bad decisions with running his life.

https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/no...dc43fffa6.html

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## bluedogok

I knew nothing about all of what happened, since moving from OKC to Austin in 2003 I just knew of the place from the billboards for the zoo on I-35 driving between OKC and Austin. Since we moved to Denver in 2012 I haven't been much south of Norman when we have been back and hadn't seen anything on the news about it the whole story was new to me.

Everyone in that was has issues, I know of some similar characters in the exotic animal business in Texas. They were almost as mental as well.

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## Bunty

Another story about the same governor debate Joe was in:   https://www.ocolly.com/lifestyle/tha...5e81d4d9f.html

You know, Im a little bit different than everybody else, so Im not in a suit, I aint gonna take my earrings out and I aint gonna cut my hair or anything else because Im not gonna be fake.  I come from out in the rural area. I know whats wrong. I live in the real world. I know how to fix it."

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## king183

I thought the documentary was well done and very entertaining. The only downside is I'm now getting a ton of texts and questions from friends asking if those people are what all Oklahomans are like.

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## Pete

> I thought the documentary was well done and very entertaining. The only downside is I'm not getting a ton of texts and questions from friends asking if those people are what all Oklahomans are like.


Haha...  I keep posting "Oklahoma Proud!" on all the social media comments from my out-of-state friends on that crazy series.

But then I point out almost none of those people are from here.

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## king183

> Haha...  I keep posting "Oklahoma Proud!" on all the social media comments from my out-of-state friends on that crazy series.
> 
> But then I point out almost none of those people are from here.


I point out Joe is wearing a Texas Longhorn hat 50% of the time (the other 50% is a Seth Wadley Ford hat...wonder how they feel above us that.)

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## bucktalk

It's pretty sad to have this huge state branding roll out a month or so ago as Oklahoma was touted at the 'come see us' or 'imagine' with the new branding. Now this series has just about wiped out the new state branding roll out.  Netflix series and the virus are the 1, 2 punch for washing away the states new branding effort.

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## mugofbeer

Nm

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## mugofbeer

LOL, l doubt 10 people outside OK brand the state with a seriesvrelatively few have watched.  Every state has it's crazies.  Come to CO and go meet a few mountain hermits - or trolls as some call them out in the Rockies.  How about the pot users (not addicts, because you can't be addicted to pot) who are often homeless but whose every waking moment is to find a joint or a bag along the highway some tourist threw out on their way to the airport.  How about CA, no crazies there.  NY?  Huh-uh.  Everyone is sane.

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## mkjeeves

> LOL, l doubt 10 people outside OK brand the state with a seriesvrelatively few have watched.  Every state has it's crazies.  Come to CO and go meet a few mountain hermits - or trolls as some call them out in the Rockies.  How about the pot users (not addicts, because you can't be addicted to pot) who are often homeless but whose every waking moment is to find a joint or a bag along the highway some tourist threw out on their way to the airport.  How about CA, no crazies there.  NY?  Huh-uh.  Everyone is sane.


Top rated show on Netflix. My son lives in Chicago and people who know or find out hes from Oklahoma have lots of questions about JE.

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## GoGators

The people who watched this documentary and think these characters are some crazy outlier have never spent any amount of time in small town Oklahoma.

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## 5alive

Hey don't tease us that way...tell more!

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## SEMIweather

> The people who watched this documentary and think these characters are some crazy outlier have never spent any amount of time in small town Oklahoma.


I mean, sure, but this is the case in pretty much every state. I grew up in the outer suburbs/exurbs of Detroit, and there were plenty of crazy people there as well. Having spent significant amounts of time in both Michigan and Oklahoma, my personal opinion is that most of this country is more similar than people tend to think.

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## Pete

^

Yes, the high desert area of Southern California is pretty nutty.

Example:  Mad Mike Hughes of Barstow who killed himself trying to launch a rocket and prove the earth was flat.

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## HangryHippo

Crazies are everywhere.  It's very similar to Covid-19 honestly - we'd find it's far more widespread if we had better testing.  lol

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## TheTravellers

Man, what a ride...  After watching it, we had to find his music videos, and y'all really need to see those too if you haven't already, also quite insane.

Great story on the music video weirdness:

https://slate.com/culture/2020/03/ne...oe-exotic.html

He's apparently in a prison medical center now:

https://nypost.com/2020/04/02/joe-ex...rus-isolation/

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## bluedogok

> I thought the documentary was well done and very entertaining. The only downside is I'm now getting a ton of texts and questions from friends asking if those people are what all Oklahomans are like.


He was born in Kansas, grew up in Wyoming and North Texas. Owned a pet store in Arlington with his brother until he was killed then moved to Oklahoma.

I know of some exotic animal nutjobs in the Hill Country west of Austin and in the Piney Woods of northeast Texas. There also some large/exotic animal hunting ranches scattered around Texas. It is not unique to Oklahoma, and yes, most exotic animal people are a bit off their rocker.

Texas Monthly - Joe Exotic: A Dark Journey Into the World of a Man Gone Wild

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## rezman

Its not just exotics. I think you can experience that anytime you run into people who relate more to animals than they do humans.  I saw this a lot back in the mid 80s when I worked down at the fairgrounds and we would set up for the horse, dog and cat shows. There were those who I believe, their only interaction with humans were at the shows. The rest of their time was spent with their kennels of animals.

The main reason we sold our acreage was because the guy on the land next to us was an animal hoarder and abuser, and  an all around nut job.  My wife no longer felt safe to live  there because of him, so we packed up and sold the place. Then two months after we moved we found out he was murdered.

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## dankrutka

I live in Texas... same county where Joe Exotic graduated high school.

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## BBatesokc

Kind of related..... Anyone remember the pet store off Agnew that sold exotic animals decades ago? Wasn't it called Agnew All Pets or something like that? I remember you could buy most anything you wanted. I also recall them getting busted for feeding animals sugary foods they'd get at deep discount prices.

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## Eric

> I mean, sure, but this is the case in pretty much every state. I grew up in the outer suburbs/exurbs of Detroit, and there were plenty of crazy people there as well. Having spent significant amounts of time in both Michigan and Oklahoma, my personal opinion is that most of this country is more similar than people tend to think.


OK has nothing on the crazies in the woods of Colorado.

Joking aside, I think SEMI is on it, crazy seems to be pretty prevalent in every state, save for maybe some of the smaller Atlantic states that don't really have untamed areas.

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## Midtowner

So either you're fine with everything he does because you believe it necessary for humans to sometimes inhumanely exploit animals or you're a vegan. I do agree with legislation limiting the breeding of dangerous animals because they can be a danger to human life. I enjoy the zoo very much. I probably won't ever get to go on Safari to experience seeing the animals we keep in our zoo. The zoo, while professionally kept, while humanely run, is just a different degree of the same type of exploitation as the Wynnewood zoo. One uses lethal injection by someone with a veterinary license to put down sick animals. The other uses a pistol. Both means to the same end.

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## BBatesokc

> ... One uses lethal injection by someone with a veterinary license to put down sick animals. The other uses a pistol. Both means to the same end.


IMO there is a huge difference between euthanizing  "sick" animals due to the poor conditions in which the animals were being kept (that had a direct impact on the animal's overall health) and "sick" regardless of the relatively good care the animals received while in captivity. Additionally, Joseph is accused of killing animals inhumanly (with a gun) simply because he could not afford to feed them or they were otherwise a financial burden/liability.

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## Pete

^

There is a new episode where Joel McHale interviews several of those who appeared in the documentary and they said the tigers he killed were healthy and Joe merely wanted the cage space.

They had to keep breeding cubs because petting them was the main way to make income.

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## TheTravellers

> ^
> 
> There is a new episode where Joel McHale interviews several of those who appeared in the documentary and they said the tigers he killed were healthy and Joe merely wanted the cage space.
> 
> They had to keep breeding cubs because petting them was the main way to make income.


There was a circus guy who paid Joe to house his tigers in the off-season, and to make room for those tigers (and money), Joe killed some of his own.  Interesting article that goes pretty deep into some of Joe's life, but details can be horrible and disgusting, fair warning...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-sex-toys.html

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## Pete

^

Nothing would surprise me about this crew of lunatics but Jeff Lowe IMO is the sleaziest of the bunch and I wouldn't believe a word he said.

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## TheTravellers

> ^
> 
> Nothing would surprise me about this crew of lunatics but Jeff Lowe IMO is the sleaziest of the bunch and I wouldn't believe a word he said.


It all seems fairly believable, horrible, crazy, and disgusting, all at the same time, and they apparently have pics and video.  :Frown:

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## hoya

I think you've got to make a distinction between being cruel to an animal and killing an animal.  We kill animals all the time.  Never been deer hunting?  Never had a hamburger?  To me it doesn't make a single bit of difference how or why Joe Exotic would put a tiger down, as long as it was done quickly and without suffering.  A bullet of sufficient size can do that.

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## BBatesokc

> I think you've got to make a distinction between being cruel to an animal and killing an animal.  We kill animals all the time.  Never been deer hunting?  Never had a hamburger?  To me it doesn't make a single bit of difference how or why Joe Exotic would put a tiger down, as long as it was done quickly and without suffering.  A bullet of sufficient size can do that.


Not sure how anyone can say "To me it doesn't make a single bit of difference how or why Joe Exotic would put a tiger down, as long as it was done quickly and without suffering." Am I hearing you right? Are you saying you're fine with him killing a Tiger simply because it's not profitable to keep feeding it? You're aware tigers are not deer or cows right? And killing Tigers has certain federal implications.

Secondly, simply using a "bullet of sufficient size" in no way ensures the death was "quick and without suffering."

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## Plutonic Panda

> Not sure how anyone can say "To me it doesn't make a single bit of difference how or why Joe Exotic would put a tiger down, as long as it was done quickly and without suffering." Am I hearing you right? Are you saying you're fine with him killing a Tiger simply because it's not profitable to keep feeding it? You're aware tigers are not deer or cows right? And killing Tigers has certain federal implications.
> 
> Secondly, simply using a "bullet of sufficient size" in no way ensures the death was "quick and without suffering."


Not saying I agree or disagree with Hoya but Ive always found it interesting how one decides a specific life form is more valuable than another. Are making a moral argument or a legal one? Because you say tigers are not cows which anyone with a single brain cell could tell you but what are implying by that?

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## BBatesokc

> Not saying I agree or disagree with Hoya but I’ve always found it interesting how one decides a specific life form is more valuable than another. Are making a moral argument or a legal one? Because you say tigers are not cows which anyone with a single brain cell could tell you but what are implying by that?


If you can't tell what I'm implying, then try using more than a single brain cell.

Cows, in this context are part of our food supply. Tigers? Not so much. Same goes for deer to a much lesser degree. Additionally, neither cows or deers are endangered nor legally protected to the extent Tigers are. Tigers also fill a different role in our society.

How is this that difficult to understand?

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## Plutonic Panda

> If you can't tell what I'm implying, then try using more than a single brain cell.
> 
> Cows, in this context are part of our food supply. Tigers? Not so much. Same goes for deer to a much lesser degree. Additionally, neither cows or deers are endangered nor legally protected to the extent Tigers are. Tigers also fill a different role in our society.
> 
> How is this that difficult to understand?


Haha I guess I don’t have a brain cell because I can’t tell what you’re implying unless my original conclusion that you insinuated the life of a tiger is worth more than a cow was correct. It’s not right or wrong. I just find it interesting. But what I wasn’t sure of is whether or not you were making an argument from a moral standpoint or otherwise. 

Consciousness is something of great interest to me and I always find it fascinating when others know so much about the value life holds and how confident they are in their beliefs. I guess that has to do with the fact we know so little about it. Even some of the greatest neuroscientist and biologists in the world will readily admit they know next to nothing about what consciousness really is.

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## Bunty

> ^
> 
> There is a new episode where Joel McHale interviews several of those who appeared in the documentary and they said the tigers he killed were healthy and Joe merely wanted the cage space.
> 
> They had to keep breeding cubs because petting them was the main way to make income.


That was a very interesting part.  All of Joe's workers thought the animals were easier to live with than Joe.  Listening to them took away what very little sympathy I had for what ended up happening to him.   He struck me as a bitter little man who could never get over that woman leading the way toward persuading malls to stop letting him put on petting and picture taking shows.  He foolishly got so consumed by his own hatred that it cost all his freedom.  If he dies in prison, further good riddance.  If President Trump has a heart for mistreated animals, he surely won't let him out early.

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## Bunty

I'm not sure the new name is a good idea, but the zoo, formerly  Joe's, reopened this past weekend:  https://nypost.com/2020/05/06/tiger-...irus-shutdown/

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## jn1780

> I'm not sure the new name is a good idea, but the zoo, formerly  Joe's, reopened this past weekend:  https://nypost.com/2020/05/06/tiger-...irus-shutdown/


Have to capitalize on that 15 minutes of fame while they can.

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## Questor

That series is like a train wreck, it’s just hard to look away and honestly whoever edited it the way they did with passively dropping a bombshell then having cliffhanger endings each episode... that was legitimately brilliant. 

Tigers are endangered species... and to me, the saddest part of this series was seeing them treated and handled the way they were. Putting them down for any reason other than to end their suffering is just not right. There are only about 3,500 left in the wild. I am glad they ended it with that message but I wish conservation efforts could have played a bigger part in the series. The takeaway should have been trying to help out scientific and wildlife organizations but sadly instead we have people lined up wanting to go to exotic animal farms now.

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## Jersey Boss

Another takeaway is the lack of regulatory oversight on these operations.

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## BBatesokc

> I'm not sure the new name is a good idea, but the zoo, formerly  Joe's, reopened this past weekend:  https://nypost.com/2020/05/06/tiger-...irus-shutdown/


When was it closed? We were there on April 29th and had called the weekend before to make sure they were open.

I was actually surprised how clean the little zoo actually was. Unfortunately it reminded me of the OKC Zoo back in the 70's with tiny enclosures for such large animals.

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## Bunty

> When was it closed? We were there on April 29th and had called the weekend before to make sure they were open.
> 
> I was actually surprised how clean the little zoo actually was. Unfortunately it reminded me of the OKC Zoo back in the 70's with tiny enclosures for such large animals.


I don't know when it closed, but it was due to the pandemic.

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## BBatesokc

> I don't know when it closed, but it was due to the pandemic.


Must have been for a short period of time. That may also explain why when we went it was completely empty of patrons. It was us and maybe a dozen other people.

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## TheTravellers

https://okcfox.com/news/local/tiger-...o-in-wynnewood

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## Bunty

> https://okcfox.com/news/local/tiger-...o-in-wynnewood


Not a big win, since the animals don't go with it.  It puts Jeff Lowe in a good position to be able to promptly open his new zoo near Thackerville and the big casino.  It will be interesting to see what Big Cat Rescue wants to do with an empty zoo.

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## emtefury

Looks like like there is more to the story. A Florida sheriff said Don Lewis’  will was forged.  Don Lewis was married to Carol Baskin when he died. His will left Baskin his $10M estate.  This will ramp up the talk of Baskin murdering Lewis.  

https://miami.cbslocal.com/2020/06/0...n-forged-will/

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## Pete

The US Department of Agriculture said it suspended the exhibitor license for Greater Wynnwood Exotic Animal Park and Jeffrey Lowe on Monday.  The park is now closed to the public.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/19/us/ti...rnd/index.html

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## jn1780

Looks like Carol Baskin just got  an extension on her 15 minutes of fame. Going to be on Dancing with the Stars.

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## Anonymous.

I am not sure how that show works, but if it is winning by fan vote - I don't see it going well. lol

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## Bill Robertson

> I am not sure how that show works, but if it is winning by fan vote - I don't see it going well. lol


It’s part judges scoring and part fan votes. We watch occasionally based on who’s on that season. With Carol Baskin and Charles Barkley being two “Stars” we’ll be passing this season unless the others are really interesting.

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## TheTravellers

> It’s part judges scoring and part fan votes. We watch occasionally based on who’s on that season. With Carol Baskin and Charles Barkley being two “Stars” we’ll be passing this season unless the others are really interesting.


Johnny Weir should be interesting, he should do well because of his training.

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## Bill Robertson

> Johnny Weir should be interesting, he should do well because of his training.


Yeah. He should be pretty good. All the skaters have been. I haven’t seen the entire cast. I need to look  it up.

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## Eric

> It’s part judges scoring and part fan votes. We watch occasionally based on who’s on that season. With Carol Baskin and Charles Barkley being two “Stars” we’ll be passing this season unless the others are really interesting.


I only know this because I heard Baskin was going to be on, looked up the lineup, and I believe it's actually Charles Oakley, not Barkley. Oakley, the former New York Knick (among other teams). I only recall this because I had no idea Charles Oakley was a "famous" person, and I was an NBA fan when Jordan/Knicks series were good.

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## Plutonic Panda

This isn’t about the Netflix documentary but Joe Exotic will be resentenced:

https://kfor.com/news/local/i-got-th...e-convictions/

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