# Civic Matters > Ask Anything About OKC >  Daylight Savings Time

## SoonerQueen

I know it takes a few days to get used to the time change, but if you like daylight savings time and live in Oklahoma, call your legislators and tell them we don't want to change back in the fall. I like it being light longer in the day. I hope we don't ever have to change back

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## bchris02

At first thought I was for this but I am actually not because it would greatly mess up my work schedule.  Even if Oklahoma didn't do the time change, any business that does business in other states would be affected and it would be a confusing mess.  I would be for DST all year but only if the entire country (or most of it) decided to do it.

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## stile99

For the reasons bchris noted, I always thought Texas would be the one to get the rest of the Central Time Zone states to follow.  "We're big, and if you don't like it we don't care", and all that.

That said, we are so far into the digital age that I just don't accept business with other states as a reason to keep subjecting ourselves to this nonsense.  If you currently do business with states in other time zones, that argument falls flat immediately, you already have to adapt.  We're a global economy now, where not only do we have to be concerned with the time in neighboring states but other countries and other continents as well.  Business is conducted without a second, or even first thought to this, it's just simply done.

As for being light longer in the day, an old Native American proverb: Only the White Man can cut a foot off the top of the blanket and sew it to the bottom thinking he's getting a longer blanket.

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## HangryHippo

This horse**** is unnatural and needs to be done away with.  It should just be the normal time the entire year.  As stile said, just adapt.

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## Zuplar

I imagine if we did change we'd probably just start referring to it as Oklahoma Time until everyone else in this country got on board. It would be confusing at first but eventually people would figure it out just like they do for Arizona.

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## BBatesokc

> At first thought I was for this but I am actually not because it would greatly mess up my work schedule.  Even if Oklahoma didn't do the time change, any business that does business in other states would be affected and it would be a confusing mess.  I would be for DST all year but only if the entire country (or most of it) decided to do it.


It's no more inconvenient than the fact we have different time zones already. Additionally, there are already states (and territories) that don't pointlessly move their clocks back and forth and it hasn't been a big deal.

I'm all for getting rid of it. Keep the sun up a bit longer year round.

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## Zuplar

FYI it's SB 1309 for those that want to write their senator.

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## jn1780

> It's no more inconvenient than the fact we have different time zones already. Additionally, there are already states (and territories) that don't pointlessly move their clocks back and forth and it hasn't been a big deal.
> 
> I'm all for getting rid of it. Keep the *sun up a bit longer* year round.


That would be a permanent daylight savings time and just not falling back every fall. I think we would be better off in sacrificing the 1 hr in the summer.  As opposed to going to work and school in the complete dark all during  the winter and outdoor construction not starting till 8:30 or 9 in January. Northern states would definitely not want to do this. Russia tried this for a few years and abandoned it. 

Edit: I just realized you were talking about getting rid of fall back and not DST.

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## TheTravellers

> FYI it's SB 1309 for those that want to write their senator.


And just to be clear, that bill calls for adopting DST permanently, not for standard time to be the standard time.

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## Celebrator

> And just to be clear, that bill calls for adopting DST permanently, not for standard time to be the standard time.


https://www.npr.org/2018/03/11/59270...ht-saving-time

Looks like Florida just passed it.

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## TheTravellers

Interesting bit in the article:

"That's because federal law allows states to opt out of daylight saving time, as in Hawaii and most of Arizona, but not out of standard time."

So once again, OK wants to do something that isn't really legal...

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## OKCRT

> This horse**** is unnatural and needs to be done away with.  It should just be the normal time the entire year.  As stile said, just adapt.


I agree,just leave it alone! Stop going forwards and backwards is pretty darn stupid if you think about it.

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## jn1780

So Florida's law doesn't really have chance to actually be enacted unless congress changes their time zone?  Oklahoma would need to be moved to Eastern?  There's  legitimate concerns with permanent DST such as children walking in the mornings so I doubt congress would ever allow a change to permanent DST. It really needs to be standard time or keep changing the clocks twice per year.

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## jompster

Is it really even that big of a deal?  It takes two minutes to change your clocks.  In Spring, go to bed an hour early to account for the hour lost.  In Fall, go to a bar and get two last calls.

Easy.

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## stile99

> There's  legitimate concerns with permanent DST such as children walking in the mornings


Which was exactly the excuse Congress gave when they EXTENDED it in the first place.

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## SoonerDave

Ok, I"m a little confused. I want DST permanent. I think that makes me in favor of 1309, correct?

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## SoonerDave

> This horse**** is unnatural and needs to be done away with.  It should just be the normal time the entire year.  As stile said, just adapt.


Yeah, going home in near dusk/darkness at 430-5pm is totally natural.

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## HangryHippo

> Yeah, going home in near dusk/darkness at 430-5pm is totally natural.


Beats driving to work at night.

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## Zuplar

> Ok, I"m a little confused. I want DST permanent. I think that makes me in favor of 1309, correct?


Yes sir.

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## jerrywall

In non DST my kids walk to school and home in the light. Right now with DST they're walking in pitch black in the mornings. Which one is safer for them?

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## SoonerDave

> Beats driving to work at night.


We disagree. I'd much rather drive to work in the lower light time of day.

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## SoonerDave

> In non DST my kids walk to school and home in the light. Right now with DST they're walking in pitch black in the mornings. Which one is safer for them?


What time are they walking to school? I'm driving to work between 645-700 AM and it's already well beyond "pitch black" by then.

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## jerrywall

> What time are they walking to school? I'm driving to work between 645-700 AM and it's already well beyond "pitch black" by then.


The ones with pre school activities are heading out closer to 6am.  The bus' also start running not much after that.  It's already starting to get lighter now, but can you imagine a month ago? Or two?

Pitch black may be an exaggeration, but it's pretty dark.  And their are stretches in my neighborhood on the way to the school where there are no street lights.  I get nervous jogging in the morning.  Especially since so many cars use this drive through my neighborhood as a shortcut to work and speed through there.

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## HOT ROD

It wouldn't be able to pass because Congress would have to approve adoption of DST for full year. States can only opt out of DST, they can't extend it.

Editorial .....
Personally, I think extending DST in the fall (to November) was dumb; IMO DST should begin just before the Spring Equinox (Mar 21) and DST should end just after the Fall Equinox (Sept 21). Having DST from say Mar 10 until say Oct 1 would be my preference. Also, instead of starting DST on Sunday, they should do it on Friday night/Saturday so most folks (who have those days off) can have that entire weekend to adjust. ...

anyway, my thoughts. ...

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## OKCRT

> We disagree. I'd much rather drive to work in the lower light time of day.


Getting dark between 5:30-6:00 pm is fine by me. Just leave the clocks alone because when it changes it screws with your internal time clock. Prob takes years off your life.

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## Mr. Blue Sky

> This horse**** is unnatural and needs to be done away with.  It should just be the normal time the entire year.  As stile said, just adapt.


There's nothing "natural" about Standard Time. All of these numeric schemes are just made up. Man had to come up with some way to make sense of things with our Earth's rotation. This is an interesting read 
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articl...15/3364432.htm

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## rezman

I would much rather spring forward, and leave it alone. I have no problem with driving to work in the dark. ... I'm going to work.   I would rather have that extra daylight in the evenings year round. Oklahoma has decent weather 9-10 months out of the year.  A lot of people here do outdoor activities during the fall and winter months, and a little extra daylight in the evenings is nice.

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## Zuplar

> I would much rather spring forward, and leave it alone. I have no problem with driving to work in the dark. ... I'm going to work.   I would rather have that extra daylight in the evenings year round. *Oklahoma has decent weather 9-10 months out of the year*.  A lot of people here do outdoor activities during the fall and winter months, and a little extra daylight in the evenings is nice.


We must have different takes on weather, I'd say in general Oklahoma has maybe a month worth of decent weather. Other than that it's too hot, too cold, or too windy. The wind is what ruins it for me and makes what would otherwise be a decent day be crappy.

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## stick47

> That would be a permanent daylight savings time and just not falling back every fall. I think we would be better off in sacrificing the 1 hr in the summer.  As opposed to going to work and school in the complete dark all during  the winter and outdoor construction not starting till 8:30 or 9 in January. Northern states would definitely not want to do this. Russia tried this for a few years and abandoned it. 
> 
> Edit: I just realized you were talking about getting rid of fall back and not DST.


Commuting and facing the rising or setting sun would be less of a problem on full time DST.

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## rezman

> We must have different takes on weather, I'd say in general Oklahoma has maybe a month worth of decent weather. Other than that it's too hot, too cold, or too windy. The wind is what ruins it for me and makes what would otherwise be a decent day be crappy.


I certainly understand where you're coming from. I guess coming from all my years of riding motorcycles & bicycles, and just generally wanting to be doing something outside rather than inside, that's where I would like to have more daylight in the evenings.

 As compared to up north where folks are shut in from November to March,  we do have plenty of good days.   But yes, the heat does get to  me more as get older.

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## HOT ROD

guys, Congress has to approve full-time DST or any other DST extensions. ... period. States can opt out of DST but they can't extend it. 

Many of you are wishing for something that can't and wont be accomplished. By law, we can only wish for ending/opting out of DST altogether, or "perhaps" shortening it.

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## HOT ROD

oh, and time zones were established by the rail roads, so that as trains departed from one area there would be consistency in time of day for major destinations; from the prospective of the sun. So, a 7am sun looks the same in NY as it does in Chicago, and so on.

Interesting, I've lived/visited countries (China in particular) who do not have time zones. China is also a large country but you hardly notice the difference in time until you get into the very far west, which has an unofficial Yuugar time zone; all of the rest of the country is based on how Beijing sees the sun with no change throughout the year. Again, I hardly noticed the difference being in the middle - Sichuan/Chongqing; for business still went in around 8am and off around 5pm regardless of the sun and still got things done nationwide. ...

Is it time to redact time zones too? or just DST?

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## Jim Kyle

How about we all go to UTC, so that anywhere in the world the clocks will show the same time. That would make the sun rise here between 12 and 1 PM, the midnight would occur only a few hours after sundown, but we could get used to it. That would also do away with the International Date Line because everywhere would be on the same day, although moving the calendar in late afternoon might be a trifle confusing...

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## billokc

Don't forget to turn them back an hour in the fall. :Lol2:

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## Plutonic Panda

Eat two dinners! Problem solved.  :Wink:

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## Mel

> How about we all go to UTC, so that anywhere in the world the clocks will show the same time. That would make the sun rise here between 12 and 1 PM, the midnight would occur only a few hours after sundown, but we could get used to it. That would also do away with the International Date Line because everywhere would be on the same day, although moving the calendar in late afternoon might be a trifle confusing...


I can't imagine our Navy not having a "Shellback" ceremony.

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## OKCRT

Just for the record we are going off DST this weekend and going back to Standard time. :Drunk:

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## HangryHippo

> Just for the record we are going off DST this weekend and going back to Standard time.


The hero we needed!

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## RadicalModerate

> How about we all go to UTC, so that anywhere in the world the clocks will show the same time. That would make the sun rise here between 12 and 1 PM, the midnight would occur only a few hours after sundown, but we could get used to it. That would also do away with the International Date Line because everywhere would be on the same day, although moving the calendar in late afternoon might be a trifle confusing...


So . . . Is that Spring Forward and Fall Back?  . . . Or Versa Vice? Inquiring Memes want to no.

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## emtefury

Hopefully in February the legislature will keep us at standard time. The time changes are unnecessary.

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## Bunty

Keep the time change set to an hour ahead all year and I'll be happier.  Changing clocks and watches twice a year isn't my cup of tea.

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## SEMIweather

> Hopefully in February the legislature will keep us at standard time. The time changes are unnecessary.


Yes, it would be so good to have the sun rising at ~ 5:15 a.m. and setting at ~ 7:45 p.m. all summer.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Jersey Boss

Nm

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## OkiePoke

Since it is required to have Standard Time, can we run DST 364 days a year?

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## Jersey Boss

> Since it is required to have Standard Time, can we run DST 364 days a year?


No. If a state elects to be on DST, it must be for the same uniform period of time as others that use it.

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## jerrywall

You mean no once a year day where we move time back 4 hours?  Call it state sleep in day?

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## OkiePoke

> No. If a state elects to be on DST, it must be for the same uniform period of time as others that use it.


/s

Kind of a tongue -in-cheek. I see how that would have been misleading.

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## RadicalModerate

Dark at five o'clock sux. Viva Daylight Savings Time. (yeah, right. as if.)

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## Jersey Boss

Article: Daylight Saving Time Ends — but No One Knows Why the US Is Doing It Anyway
http://flip.it/sbxcFW

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## Mel

We are no longer an Agrarian Nation. We no longer need DST.

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## stile99

As any farmer would be more than happy to tell you, we never needed it, at least certainly not on their behalf. The cows don't care what time the clock says, they really only know milking time and feeding time. The rooster doesn't check his watch before crowing.

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## HangryHippo

> As any farmer would be more than happy to tell you, we never needed it, at least certainly not on their behalf. The cows don't care what time the clock says, they really only know milking time and feeding time. The rooster doesn't check his watch before crowing.


Exactly.  Farmers were opposed to it and animals and crops never needed it.

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## MadMonk

If we don't change time twice a year how will I know to check my smoke alarm batteries?   :Wink:

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## Mel

Blame the Benjamin. https://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/history.html

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## stile99

Urban legend.  Ben Franklin, as he did with many of his articles/essays, was being a smart alec.  Linked article even says it.

The problem with the legend is nobody ever reads the actual article he wrote.  He wasn't suggesting anyone change their clocks, he was suggesting people get up before noon.  So they could open their shutters and "let the dark out".  Benjamin being the first person in history to discover that the sun started generating light as soon as it rose.

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## Mel

Whatever. Doesn't really matter.

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## billokc

> As any farmer would be more than happy to tell you, we never needed it, at least certainly not on their behalf. The cows don't care what time the clock says, they really only know milking time and feeding time. The rooster doesn't check his watch before crowing.


Yes, you are correct, but only to a certain point. The cows don't care what the clock time is, but they (and any other animal) know when their milking and feeding time has changed, and they don't know or understand why. Any animal that requires human maintenance notices the change in their maintenance schedule because us humans have changed the time we perform it. All they know is it's earlier or later than what they've become used to. Even our domestic pets (dogs, cats, etc.) notice they get fed earlier or later.

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## billokc

emtefury

Default Re: Daylight Savings Time

    Hopefully in February the legislature will keep us at standard time. The time changes are unnecessary. 







> Yes, it would be so good to have the sun rising at ~ 5:15 a.m. and setting at ~ 7:45 p.m. all summer.


Yeah, I can already hear it now..."How come it doesn't stay light as late as it used to? It used to be light much later than this during the summer? I want it to be light later."
And the reply would be..."Well, the reason is because you people didn't want to change the clocks forward anymore. So instead of the Sun setting at 8:45pm, it now sets at 7:45pm.

People don't think these things out.

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## jompster

Or we could just let the Legislature worry with things which matter, and we can just continue adjusting the clocks since it's not hurting anything anyway (aside from a few feelings here and there).

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## stile99

> Or we could just let the Legislature worry with things which matter, and we can just continue adjusting the clocks since it's not hurting anything anyway (aside from a few feelings here and there).


That may be the most ignorant statement ever posted on here.  Please don't take this as an attack, but an opportunity to do a little research and learn. It most certainly does cause a lot of hurt, up to and including death, that's the point.  While ignorant people still try to claim energy savings, the cost is massive and far outweighs any savings.

That, and the whole death thing.

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## jompster

Don't worry, I've seen plenty of more ignorant comments in other threads.  I've read about all that, but maybe it's lost on me because I don't stress over it.  I'm not taking it as an attack.  I get from where you're coming.

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## kwhey

> emtefury
> 
> Default Re: Daylight Savings Time
> 
>     Hopefully in February the legislature will keep us at standard time. The time changes are unnecessary. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would prefer it get darker earlier.  At least 7:45pm in the summer would be bearable.

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## bluedogok

I never understood the big deal about the change for some people. It is a minor inconvenience for most. Like most things the reports of all the "issues" are overblown. I hate standard time, it is already dark here in Denver at 4:30 in the winter. Your location in the time zone makes a difference.

I saw an online poll somewhere (for what little they are worth) asking whether to keep the DST change, standard time year round or make standard time to be the same as DST and it was overwhelmingly for DST year round. Saw a similar one for England and in The Japan Times and the people there wanted permanent DST. I know that it gets dark in Tokyo at 4:30 also.

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## stile99

https://kfor.com/2019/01/25/bill-pro...e-in-oklahoma/

So if all-year Daylight Saving Time isn't an option, fine. We'll go the other direction.

This is the third or fourth state I've read about in the last couple weeks. Kansas wants to end it as well. Washington is proposing the all-year DST, I imagine they'll learn the same lesson. 

https://www.kansas.com/news/politics...224747030.html

http://mynorthwest.com/1242751/washi...t-saving-time/

https://www.12news.com/article/news/...5-d1f61da04c30

https://www.courant.com/politics/hc-...s2m-story.html

https://wdef.com/2019/01/16/daylight...ack-tennessee/

This idiotic habit is not long for this world, thankfully.

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## OKCRT

I would do away with it if it was my choice. Moving your clock forward and backwards every spring and fall seems pretty dumb to me.

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## SEMIweather

> This idiotic habit is not long for this world, thankfully.


Not as idiotic as wanting the sun to rise before 6 a.m. and set before 8 p.m. in the summertime.

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## stick47

The best reason to end this inane time shifting is that the house will be cooler when you go to bed. That means you won't need to set your thermostat so low to be comfortable in bed. Saves money & uses less energy.

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## stile99

> Not as idiotic as wanting the sun to rise before 6 a.m. and set before 8 p.m. in the summertime.


Well the answer to that is clear, but Congress won't allow it.

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## jompster

> Not as idiotic as wanting the sun to rise before 6 a.m. and set before 8 p.m. in the summertime.


This.  Also, one would think that our Legislature has more pressing things on which they should be focusing.

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## stile99

> This.  Also, one would think that our Legislature has more pressing things on which they should be focusing.


Yeah yeah yeah, and as long as cancer exists, scientists should only work on that. As if scientists and legislators do just one thing at a time.

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## 5alive

So...is the idea to stay on permanent standard time or daylight savings time?

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## stile99

> So...is the idea to stay on permanent standard time or daylight savings time?


The intelligent thing to do, at least for this area, would be DST year-round. Congress refuses to allow that, and when asked to change the law preventing it, said "we prefer to leave that to the states", without giving them the actual power to do so. That's why there are so many bills being introduced to just say forget about DST entirely.

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## jompster

> Yeah yeah yeah, and as long as cancer exists, scientists should only work on that. As if scientists and legislators do just one thing at a time.


Things.  Plural.  *eyeroll*

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## Stew

Talk about first world problems. Geeze.

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## stile99

> Things.  Plural.  *eyeroll*


That would be the point, yes.

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## jompster

> That would be the point, yes.


Hence what I stated in my first post should you have troubled yourself to engage in a little reading comprehension.

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## stile99

> Hence what I stated in my first post should you have troubled yourself to engage in a little reading comprehension.


This is not a warboard, and your personal attacks are unwelcome, so I will not be continuing this conversation. You implied that they could not work on this issue in conjunction with others. You know this to be untrue.

Despite some people thinking this isn't an issue deserving attention, it is getting it.

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## jompster

> This is not a warboard, and your personal attacks are unwelcome, so I will not be continuing this conversation. You implied that they could not work on this issue in conjunction with others. You know this to be untrue.
> 
> Despite some people thinking this isn't an issue deserving attention, it is getting it.


I understand that, but it feels like every time I comment somewhere you have something snarky to contribute.  I implied nothing, and if you read it that way, then that's your issue to work through.  I implied that they have more important things (plural) to deal with than this - for starters, teachers streaming across the borders into states who treat them better, infrastructure that is crumbling, and a host of other things that need done.  I certainly don't consider it a warboard, as you say, but I also don't take kindly to false implications.

I do agree with you on one thing.  It would be a ton easier to stay on DST all year long.  It feels like a day is so much more productive with it staying light later in the day.  But the federal government would probably shut that down.

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## DCARS

Honestly, after living in Phoenix and Tucson, I would pay money to go back to standard time year round.  People complain about getting off work and it is dark, but that is just natural winter.  In the summer time, even with standard time, the sun would still be up until nearly 8:00 and with dusk, later than that.  Daylight saving time, may be good for those that stay up late but for those of us that have to get up at 4:00 AM, and have insomnia, it really is hard to get to sleep when it is still daytime.

During the summer, the only time I ever see darkness is in the morning, on the way to work.  I know it is just a personal preference but standard time is normal, and people would get use to it.

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## SoonerQueen

I have to admit I stay up late at night, and get up later  than most people do. I love DST, and look forward to the change every spring. I love it being lighter longer in the evening, and wish we could keep DST all year long. I get so much more done during DST, and dread when it changes back to Standard time.

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## 5alive

This ^^^^

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## rezman

^^^ Agreed... when it come time to spring forward, set it and forget it.

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## stile99

Add Oregon to the list.

https://katu.com/news/local/i-think-...ylight-savings

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## stile99

Idaho.

https://idahonews.com/news/local/new...-time-in-idaho

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## stile99

Arkansas.

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/...time-arkansas/

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## Sharona21

I agree with rezman.  "when it comes to spring forward, set it and forget it".  I would like for it to be brought to a vote of the people, but my luck, it probably would be voted standard time all year.  That would be more awful than having the time change twice a year.

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## TheTravellers

> I agree with rezman.  "when it comes to spring forward, set it and forget it".  I would like for it to be brought to a vote of the people, but my luck, it probably would be voted standard time all year.  That would be more awful than having the time change twice a year.


The US Congress would have to modify the Uniform Time Act for any state to stay on DST, which is not going to happen. No state can go on DST permanently without this modification to the UTA (at the very least, since there may be other hurdles they have to overcome if that one ever came to pass) - they either have the choice to stay on standard time or switch back and forth, this has been mentioned in this thread multiple times, I believe.

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## Stew

> The US Congress would have to modify the Uniform Time Act for any state to stay on DST, which is not going to happen. No state can go on DST permanently without this modification to the UTA (at the very least, since there may be other hurdles they have to overcome if that one ever came to pass) - they either have the choice to stay on standard time or switch back and forth, this has been mentioned in this thread multiple times, I believe.


Marijuana is illegal at the federal level but legal in some states. Wouldn't that be the case here or is the clock the line the states dare not cross.

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## Sharona21

> Marijuana is illegal at the federal level but legal in some states. Wouldn't that be the case here or is the clock the line the states dare not cross.


I agree, Stew.  It's rather ridiculous that the clock is considered "untouchable"  How backward that is.

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## TheTravellers

> Marijuana is illegal at the federal level but legal in some states. Wouldn't that be the case here or is the clock the line the states dare not cross.


Interesting way of thinking about it.  I'd guess that eventually MJ will be re/de-scheduled at the federal level, so *that* won't be an issue, but since time zones affect absolutely everybody, that's a bigger thing.  But who knows, far enough in the future, the UTA may be modified to allow states to do what they want.  Since DST is an artificial human concept (although clocks and measuring of time by seconds, minutes, etc. could also kinda sorta said to be the same), I'd suspect that the UTA/standard time will still be the law of the land.

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## jedicurt

> The US Congress would have to modify the Uniform Time Act for any state to stay on DST, which is not going to happen. No state can go on DST permanently without this modification to the UTA (at the very least, since there may be other hurdles they have to overcome if that one ever came to pass) - they either have the choice to stay on standard time or switch back and forth, this has been mentioned in this thread multiple times, I believe.


i thought i saw that Florida was going to make a challenge for this after they voted to stay on DST, to try and make it official and get congress to change it.  and several other states are looking at it... Massachusetts is also allegedly lobbying the US congress before it is on their 2020 ballot... so i think it might actually change... it will just take a bit of time

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