# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Midwest City/Del City >  MWC has gone downhill

## own2feet

I have lived in MWC for 16 years and I sadly have to admit that I can no longer stand to live there.  It seems to be overrun with thugs and vandals and only seems to be getting worse.  Just as Del City has.  I won't even go into DC unless totally necessary and only in the daytime.  What has happened to our towns and neighborhoods?  Can law enforcement and other city officials do nothing?  It seems that today's youth could care less about anyone or anything other than themselves and the lack of respect and pride has gone completely out the window.  So how do we fix this?  Do we flee to other towns in hope of a better environment and just let our old towns fall the the wayside?  I don't know, but I am in the process of moving my family to a safer environment.  I just can't handle it anymore.  It is just so sad that everyone turns a blind eye until it is too late to fix the problem.  I guess that's just urbanization and adaptation. :Smiley099:

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## CuatrodeMayo

Are you kidding me?

Unless you live north of NE 10th, MWC is leaps and bounds better now.

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## own2feet

Well I do indeed live South of 10th, but that isn't the only problem area.  Just look around and you will see more than the new development on 29th.  I believe there are some great areas in MWC, but they too are becoming inundated.  I don't know, maybe I've got burnout and am ready for a more peaceful, serene place to live.

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## Millie

I can kind of see some negative changes in MWC- especially north of 10th.  I'm not sure what you're talking about in terms of Del City getting worse, though.  It seems like DC has gotten a lot better over the past 10 years or so- especially in the past two or three years with the new development and the cleanup efforts.  DC code enforcement/police/whoever seem to have really cracked down on the gang kids, etc.  Yeah, there are parts of both towns that I wouldn't want to hang around after dark- or even during the day, but I think that southern MWC and also most of Del City are both less scary than they used to be.

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## oklahomajewel

hmmmm.... I have lived in MWC all my life and have lived from the Reno mall area (not Meadowood) to the east side by CAHS and now over here in the original square mile.  Seen lots of changes , good and bad, but would rather live here than on the n/w side of town by where I work.  

I don't know about you're neighborhood, the ages of your kids/family, or if you are a more private person ... but I'm glad I bought this house last summer.  Surprisingly, even though close to TAFB, I don't hear much aircraft noise(maybe I've become immune) but have great neighbors, kids that play in the yards, couples walking, neighbors talking, the neighborhoods clean, safe place to live . 
Sorry you don't like where you are, good luck where ever you go.

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## easternobserver

I would put my neighborhood (44th to 29th and Sooner to Sunnylane in Del City) up against any in the metro.  Nice houses, people take great care of yards, no loud neighbors, and yet none of the pretention you find in NW OKC or Edmond or Norman.  Great police and fire coverage and good schools.  My wife and I bought our first house here, and while we may outgrow it at some point, I would not hesitate one bit to build a new house here.  The same holds true for several other Del City neighborhoods - such as the area at Judy and Howard and the Burk Way/Burk Drive area along Reno.

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## Lauri101

Like Oklahomajewel, we live in the original square mile and I wouldn't trade my home or location for anywhere in the OKC area.
The homes are well-tended and the make-up of the neighborhood is diverse.  Retirees watch over homes during the day.  You can walk down the street about any time of the day or night and feel safe.  
My property values have gone up significantly, and my insurance rates have gone down.  We must be doing something right!

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## Redskin 70

Where is it your trying to run to and what are you running from????
Those would be the questions
MW City is a fine  community with its share of growing pains.   
Del City the same.  Both have great places to live and raise a family in..........both have places better boarded up and walled off from decent society.

Cant go North west cause the gangs have that area   now.
Cant go to Edmond as they have a larger percentage of crime than Mid Del Area.

Cant go to the SW of OKC as the Latino gangs rule...........so
where ya gonna go?????? :Tiphat:

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## Karried

> Cant go to Edmond as they have a larger percentage of crime than Mid Del Area.


Source?

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## mmonroe

I need to get shirts printed up that say, "Original Mile".  Proud to live in the original mile too.  Just wish everyone tended to their area though.

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## Lauri101

> I need to get shirts printed up that say, "Original Mile".  Proud to live in the original mile too.  Just wish everyone tended to their area though.



I'd buy two adult, plus 4 cat shirts!  
 :Smiley199:

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## tiasman

I have lived in OKC/Edmond border area (150th and Penn).  I now live in MWC 15th and Post area.  

MWC is quieter, more kid freindly, you can talk to people in stores and on the streets, less traffic and road rage, feel much safer on 29th development than I can at Quail Springs.

While my only source is my experience, I can say that I feel safer and happier in MWC than I ever did on the "north side".  I see less "thugs" in this area than up there as well.

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## mmonroe

4 cats?  lol.  Are you one of the owners of the many cat gangs that roam the area?  

At any time in the night, you can go out side, and hear the cats scrapping it out.  And they roam in packs.  It's scary.

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## Lauri101

> 4 cats?  lol.  Are you one of the owners of the many cat gangs that roam the area?  
> 
> At any time in the night, you can go out side, and hear the cats scrapping it out.  And they roam in packs.  It's scary.


Well, I do have one tomcat who mixes it up, but rest are elderly ladies who sleep a lot.  For some reason, the neighborhood cats have decided that I'm a soft touch for a good meal!

I do have a small colony of feral cats who have encamped in my backyard, but I am calling the OK Humane Society to see about the TNR program.  (thanks, sweetdaisy!)

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## okcustu

I don't see the point of this thread as long as you're of going into any shady neighborhoods in the middle of the night like an idiot you should be okay. Ive lived in the area for 16 years and went to school there for the last three years (go Bombers!) and felt unsafe anywhere same people go. Not that I haven't been some insane places; however the point is MWC has changed for the better and even a "kid" can see it.

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## Redskin 70

Like to add, I raised all three of mine here and they did just fine and two of them still  live in the area,,, though unfortunately 1 (one)  chose to lower her standards and live in MWC.....hahahaha   
Hey, these are very nice  communities and the biggest problems we still have between the two towns are  from 1959 when Del City won that  football game :Congrats:  .
MWC just never got over it................................. :Tiphat:

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## bombermwc

Yeah i don't know where youre observations come from own2feet, but you're totally off base in every possible way. I've been here 26 years and I still like it, and it's getting better all the time. No we don't have a city full of new homes like Edmond, but we also have nicer people, less traffic, the same sorts of stores, etc. I can walk around ANYWHERE (south of 10th) at any hour of the day. 

I've lived in the Origional Mile, Three Oaks, and near Reno and Midwest....it's been quiet everywhere I lived (as quiet as it gets with an AWACS overhead). I've never been robbed, vandalized, etc. I have always had great neighbors that are easy to talk to. People watch each other's homes when they are away or for suspicious folks. 

Seriously, there is nothing wrong with MWC. Money and a big house does not equate to a nice place to live.

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## Thunder

I live in Del City for the most part of my life and I still live here.  I work in MWC almost every day.  These two cities that I'm in all the time and I see nothing wrong with both cities.  MWC and Del City is improving.

MWC has nice constructions going on on 29th across from TAFB.  I think it is pretty much done with just some lots to be filled in.

Del City has constructions just starting on corner of 29th and Sooner, which I hope will be similar to the one in MWC on 29th.  Plenty of space there.  The only block is that old house, which I hope the city will take care of.

The condemed (mostly) apartment complex in Del City on 29th and Sooner should be bought out by the city and make way for retail shops.  

Del City have good exposure, plenty of space next to I-40.  The old grocery store on 15th can be bought out by the city, including a row or two of houses behind it (the same as MWC had done) to make way for retail shops.  Across the street, the city can buy out old buildings, gas station, the car lot to make way for retail shops.

Del City just need a mayor or someone with huge vision for the city.  We're getting there!

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## soonerfaithful

> I need to get shirts printed up that say, "Original Mile".


You could count me in also if there were shirts for our area.
I was born and raised in MWC in the same house I now live in. I lived out of state for a few years and when I  moved back I chose to live in MWC. I chose it for my daughters to grow up and go to school. Wouldn't have picked anywhere else. I have had family members try to talk us into moving to NW OKC but I have no desire.

I've lived in different parts of MWC since moving back and always felt comfortable and safe. 
My grandfather bought this house in the "original mile" in 1964. The neighborhood  has felt as safe if not safer since I moved in the past 3 years as when I was a child in the 70's.

Also if MWC were that bad I don't think KOCO would have MWC to be one of their cities for their On The Road specials next week.

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## oneforone

I moved from NW OKC to MWC just a couple of months ago.  I have to admit I love it here. MWCPD and DCPD appears to be working hard to keep the streets clean.  MWCPD is much more visable and more personable than OCPD in my opinion.

I had pay a visit to the MWC police station for a background check for my job.  Chief Brandon Clabes actually stopped to greet me and several other people who were doing business at the police department.

The neighborhoods are bad because of all the low rent apartment complexes that plague MWC and DC.  If you have watched news recently you would see that both cities are fighting hard to take out the trash.

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## Thunder

> The neighborhoods are bad because of all the low rent apartment complexes that plague MWC and DC.  If you have watched news recently you would see that both cities are fighting hard to take out the trash.


I was actually looking at MWC apartments online yesterday and saw some affordable places.  Cheap, maybe, but seem nice to me on the inside.

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## Karried

Midwest City is up and coming with a lot of improvement ..we've done some work there.  It seems like a really nice little town.  We go through there when we go to Air Shows at Tinker. 

I think some of the worst areas I've personally seen ( very poorly maintained areas)  since living in OK are by the Airport, and by the Capital.  I've noticed many cities have pockets of problem unsightly areas and a few blocks over, you'll have very nice manicured areas.  It's all  mixed together.

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## Jesseda

midwest city is fine, the problem I notice is robinson and s.w 42nd area by chilenos, then the capitol area, and the area around north 23rd or 29th area and portland is kinda roughed up.. Midwest city has lot to offer, to me its not going down hill as a whole, maybe a certain neighborhood maybe but not a whole.....

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## AFCM

That's the way I've always described OKC's slum/nice areas: pockets.  My wife and I are actually looking for houses in MWC.  I like the area, but admit there are some cruddy pockets.  The thing is, if you don't want to live in those areas, don't look for/buy a house in those areas.  However, while you can escape the actual ghetto communities, they'll still bring down your property values because of the school system.  Carl Albert has a great school system, but I think the property values go down once you move over into the Mid-Del school district.

The east side has more trees and better scenery than most of the metro, so that's another plus to living in MWC.  In MWC you have the economic powerhouse of Tinker AFB, plus close proximity to downtown OKC from I-40.  I've also noticed a lot more parks in MWC than most places in the metro, but maybe I just haven't paid much attention in other places.  Lastly, the section of I-40 that runs through MWC/East OKC is the best section of interstate in the area and it's never backed up.

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## sweetdaisy

I have mixed feelings on MWC.  I grew up in MWC, went to Carl Albert (go Titans!), and lived there until I moved out of state for a while.  When I returned to OK, I moved into some apartments in MWC and for the first time in my life, had my home burglarized.  Perhaps this has left a really bad taste in my mouth, but I cannot stand to go to MWC anymore.  Or, it may just be my disappointment in the declining state of many business areas north of 29th street.  (Anything on MW Blvd between 29th & Reno pretty much looks like garbage, sadly.)  Also the Heritage Park Mall area is so depressing...at least it was the last time I was around there.

Anyway, to a certain extent, I can agree with own2feet, as it seems the areas that I used to be familiar with & call "home" are all kinda run down and ghetto looking.

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## soonerfaithful

> Carl Albert has a great school system, but I think the property values go down once you move over into the Mid-Del school district.


Actually Carl Albert is part of  the Mid-Del  school district not their own.

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## Lauri101

> The east side has more trees and better scenery than most of the metro, so that's another plus to living in MWC.  In MWC you have the economic powerhouse of Tinker AFB, plus close proximity to downtown OKC from I-40.  ... it's never backed up.


I work downtown and park at the Galleria parking garage.  I can pull out of my driveway in the original square mile and park my car 12 minutes later.  Of course, it helps that I leave my house around 5 AM!

Because living in MWC and working downtown is "opposite" of the heavy traffic flow to/from Tinker, I rarely have any slow downs even at "rush hour" times.  

Yes, there are pockets of seedy-looking areas, but show me a town over 10,000 pop. that doesn't have a seedy area.  Besides, my house is nearly paid for and twice as large as when I bought it in 1985.

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## Redskin 70

MWC is a fine city and dont let anyone fool ya .  Bad parts sure but that is every where.
Besides if  a town like this has Ms Laurie than it cant go wrong..... :Tiphat:

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## Lauri101

> MWC is a fine city and dont let anyone fool ya .  Bad parts sure but that is every where.
> Besides if  a town like this has Ms Laurie than it cant go wrong.....


Aw, Shucks... :Redface:  

Thanks!

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## Redskin 70

> The condemed (mostly) apartment complex in Del City on 29th and Sooner should be bought out by the city and make way for retail shops.  
> Del City just need a mayor or someone with huge vision for the city.  We're getting there!


Well, the apartment  complex has been condemned by the city ......and the  out of state property owner has sued the city to stop  demolition.    As I  heard at Tinker, the apartment complex is a threat to Tinker so they want it  gone.  

I have met the Mayor and he does have hugh vision for this community.  Real mover and shaker  so things will happen. :Tiphat:

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## Thunder

LOL  How is the complex a threat to TAFB?  I do want the place gone, but I'm just curious to know how can a complex that is further from TAFB than the new shopping center is a threat to TAFB?

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## Millie

> LOL  How is the complex a threat to TAFB?  I do want the place gone, but I'm just curious to know how can a complex that is further from TAFB than the new shopping center is a threat to TAFB?


Isn't 29th and Sooner closer to TAFB than I-40 and Sooner?

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## Thunder

The MWC new shopping center is on 29th, directly across from TAFB and that location is very close to the airstrips, where the planes land and take off.  It is very close than the apartment complex is further west side of  TAFB.  I'm wondering how TAFB is complaining that the complex is a threat and the shopping center isn't.  If the complex is a threat, then so is the newly rebuilt houses just to the south.

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## Redskin 70

The air force has what they call APZ (accident potential Zones) 1 and 2
The apt complex is in the APZ 1 zone and dense Residential development is considered non compliant.   Due to the age and condition of the apt complex Tinker would  like to see the city remove it for that type of use.

It also has flood issues from the creek that runs through it.  It has follded three times in the last two years.  Most f the  Apts   by the creek have bad mold and  other water damage.

Hope this helps  :Tiphat:

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## Thunder

I don't really care what TAFB complains about.  Sometimes they just go too far.  As for the apt complex, I'd like to see that torn down.

When Albertsons built their new store in Del City, they had a huge banner sign "Thank You TAFB" and I thought it was stupid to have TAFB's permission to build there, because there is already stores all around.

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## oneforone

I think the whole Tinker argument is MWC's way of jabbing back at Del City for stealing their retail tax dollars.

Most of that logic stems from the days when aircraft were shotty at best and the pilots had a small fraction of the training they do now. What's next is MWC going to enact an Icarus ordinance that prohibits flying to close to the sun. 

If there truly is a safety issue, then everything within 10 miles of Tinker needs to be torn down. 

Planes crash, big deal. If people die for living or working in the area of the base that's life. If people are uncomfortable with the idea then move to Gotebo. (BTW: An airplane can still fall on your head in Gotebo) 

You stand a much larger chance of dying in a car crash on your way to work then you do dying as the result of a plane crash.

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## Thunder

Sometime I question the skills the pilots have when they land at Tinker.  Many times, I see planes go so low, about to land, but goes back up to circle another attempt.  Sometime, it seem like the planes is actually going to hit a building!  I think there was a day that a plane seem to graze the highway.

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## Redskin 70

Thunder,
those planes are practicing takes  offs and landings......  Yeah I know about the height thing, some times I think you could see the pilots eye color.

Tinker is a big part of our  buying power for the region.   The Shopping center on 29th at Air Depot is strongly supported by Tikner employees and  military.

Its not that Tinker is Complaining about the Apartments so much as a law exists (APZ 1) that was developed by the DOD (Pentagon).  Now I dont know about the wisdom of that law but it exists non the less.

But , you are right, that Apt complex is ugly and does need to come down. :Tiphat:

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## AFCM

> Sometime I question the skills the pilots have when they land at Tinker.  Many times, I see planes go so low, about to land, but goes back up to circle another attempt.  Sometime, it seem like the planes is actually going to hit a building!  I think there was a day that a plane seem to graze the highway.


These pilots know what they're doing.  I can assure you these pilots are the best in the world and there is no need to question their skills or your safety.

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## bombermwc

Millie - their issue is with the NW-SE runway, not the N-S one. The area near 40-Sooner is in the flight path of that diagonal runway. Even so, it's still 3 miles from the end of the runway. Tinker lost it's battle and the thing is betting built, and I'm glad. Tinker tries to pull crap like that too often and then uses BRAC or something to try and scare people into doing what they want. It's total BS.

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## AFCM

> Millie - their issue is with the NW-SE runway, not the N-S one. The area near 40-Sooner is in the flight path of that diagonal runway. Even so, it's still 3 miles from the end of the runway. Tinker lost it's battle and the thing is betting built, and I'm glad. Tinker tries to pull crap like that too often and then uses BRAC or something to try and scare people into doing what they want. It's total BS.


Tinker doesn't volunteer itself to BRAC; those decisions are made by DOD and Congress.  If you think BRAC is "total BS", you should research Kelly AFB, McClellan AFB, and the many other air bases that fell to BRAC.  Tinker was being considered for death row, along with Kelly and McClellan, but Tinker commanders proved that the base was more productive in terms of output.

I understand the reluctance for many to surrender plots of land for an entity that can be seen like a bully, but you have to understand the importance of Tinker AFB to the OKC Metro.  If Tinker doesn't exist, MWC doesn't exist.

It's better to have the economic power of Tinker and complaints of not being able to build nearby, than to have no base, thus no money to generate the developments in the first place.  With or without Tinker, those places wouldn't develop.  Realizing this, you have to pick the lesser of two evils.

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## Redskin 70

When the apartment complex is down, that doesnt mean that other development cannot occur, it just is a controled development as is the New Development at I40 and Sooner...............not stopped just controlled.

Considering that my mother is one of the original Rosie Riviters from Tinker no harm is wished towards the base.   I would rather  see limited development outside of Tinker than nothing inside Tinker............. :Tiphat:

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## easternobserver

"Tinker lost its battle"....  Who ever said that Tinker or the Air Force or the Pentagon was part of a battle??  The way I saw it, there was one washed up old general who had an ax to grind, and he tried to represent himself as speaking for Tinker, the Air Force, the Pentagon, the President of the United States, and maybe the little green men from Mars.  All the military has ever asked is for communities to be responsible when growing near their bases.  To say that "Tinker lost" is an incredible mischaracterization.

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## bombermwc

No entirely true. The accident zoning is something that contiues to be revised every so often. The most recent one is what caused the stink here with Mr. Ex-General busy-body. If the air force/dod thought they could do it, they would clear out everything from zone 2....stripping HUGE amounts of MWC and DC out. That's obviously not going to happen. We just have to keep dealing with these retarted gripes everytime they come up.

I'm all for Tinker support, duh I live in MWC. HOWEVER, I don't believe any group should get blanket authorization for whatever they want to do. They don't deserve all of their requests, and then the surrounding communities just have to deal with it. That's why Del City has lacked commercial development for 50 years and it's long since past time to throw that argument out the window and allow projects like this to occur. 

The issue with BRAC that I have, isn't so much with BRAC, but with Tinker saying every project like this they want to block is to ensure that their encroachment zones are clear so BRAC doesn't want to take the base. Again, there are valid points there, but that shouldn't mean they have a blank check to take whatever the want. If they did, then if the base ever left, then not only would we be left with an empty base, but also a how many miles wide zone of no commercial development? Even if Tinker ever left, we do still have people that live on the east side that have nothing to do with Tinker at all. We still want to have commercial development....and by the way, the people that work at tinker go spend money at the surrounding development every day....before,during, and after work.

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## BoulderSooner

> Sometime I question the skills the pilots have when they land at Tinker.  Many times, I see planes go so low, about to land, but goes back up to circle another attempt.  Sometime, it seem like the planes is actually going to hit a building!  I think there was a day that a plane seem to graze the highway.


they were doing touch and go's ... 


pilots have to have a min number of landings a month(quarter?)  and a touch down counts as a landing .. 


this happens all the time at tinker ..

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## Thunder

> they were doing touch and go's ... 
> 
> 
> pilots have to have a min number of landings a month(quarter?)  and a touch down counts as a landing .. 
> 
> 
> this happens all the time at tinker ..


But... The tires don't actually touch the roadway. lol

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## bombermwc

Thunder, I think you might have fallen victim to perspective. Obviously they dno't graze the highway or buildings or anything even close. Take a look next time one lands, the don't come near the ground until they are almost 1/4 mile south of I-40. Plus there is a TON of empty land all around the runways.

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## Thunder

I know.  I'm just saying, it scares some people.  What if we have travellers going thru the state or tourists.  They could be unaware of the vast amount of empty land down there and they see a plane so low, they'll think it's gonna crash. lol They need a sign, "Empty Land Ahead - Plane Will Not Crash". lol

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## PennyQuilts

I honestly don't think the police can do much other than get certain elements to "move along" to another area.  

I've been living back east for 8 years but was fortunate enough to be in town a couple of weeks in early July.  I had time to do some driving around.   Some areas sure appear to be crime-ridden - more so than when I left.   Most of these areas DID seem to be more like "pockets."  

Does anyone know why the streets in poor neighborhoods always seem so dirty?  Other than picking up garbage in front of my house (which most civilized people do), I am not aware of my neighbors or me doing anything special.   In many poor neighborhoods, not only is their garbage that hasn't been picked up, there just seems to be dirt, in general.

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## Redskin 70

East coast, I just think it is the case of the abysmally lazy who want  some one else, anyone else to do for them.

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## bombermwc

Think of somewhere like the Bronx. If there is trash lining the street, who is responsible for that? The city does it's job by emptying the bins, but it's not their job to maintain everything. People have to be conscious enough to pick up after themselves and not let litter fly. More depressed areas simply have more residents that don't put as much care into how things look...hence they let the litter fly. I'm assuming you weren't reffering to anywhere in MWC because that would totally surprise me to see that somewhere here.

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## Karried

> I just think it is the case of the abysmally lazy who want some one else, anyone else to do for them.


Which is why they might be poor in the first place.

I know, it drives me crazy.. yeah, you might not have a lot of money but it's free to walk over to the garbage can. Take some pride in your self, your home, your kids. Clean up.

Just driving to the Zoo on Wed.. we were behind a car, driving East on 44 - twice they threw cans out of their car window. and yes, they exited Martin Luther and no, they weren't going to see Journey. I'm pretty sure they lived in that area ( which is really nasty in some spots). 

I took down their license plate as one can whizzed by us but don't know what to do with that info. Pretty pathetic.

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## Redskin 70

> ..hence they let the litter fly. I'm assuming you weren't reffering to anywhere in MWC because that would totally surprise me to see that somewhere here.


No place in particular,  i think most towns have the habitually and abysmally lazy,
in some areas its just more pronounced and concentrated...........

Im sure though we could all name some certain APARTMENT COMPLEXES  the above  statements would be totally true at.... :Tiphat:

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## mmonroe

> You could count me in also if there were shirts for our area.


I'm actually looking at pricing for shirts.  What are you guy's price range.  I want to make it affordable, not profitable.  




> I have mixed feelings on MWC.  I grew up in MWC, went to Carl Albert (go Titans!)


YES, Go TITANS!

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## Lauri101

> I'm actually looking at pricing for shirts.  What are you guy's price range.  I want to make it affordable, not profitable.


Depends a lot on quality/style

A plain T-shirt - $10 -12 at most, less if "iron-on" type letters

Polo or baseball style - would pay up to 20.

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## swartzphotography

back to the original topic of this thread now. The reason mwc and dc have gone downhill. Crimerates have more than doubled in both areas since my move to oklahoma several years ago. The originator of this thread said exactly what the problem is when he/she made reference to the teenagers and kids not giving a damn about other peoples personal property nor do they care what they do. Of course since they are teenagers and young kids the blame lies fully on those that have kids that decide to bring them up with no care for other peoples property or possesions. So if you have kids you only have yourselves to blame your the parrent. I know im probably about to hear "not my kids" They are sweet little jewels. Its funny how it allways seems to be somebody elses kids causing the problems. So the answer is parents. Take back control you are the parent you are resposible for your kids actions. Ask questions who what where when and why. Keep them on a short leash and let them earn the respect to be able to be left unattended.

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## mmonroe

I was actually thinking of doing a picture of a pony with letters above it, "Original Mile".  If anyone is anyone, they'll get the pony reference.  

No Iron ons, I don't do that.  I'm a graphic designer, I can do a lot better than that, trust me.  

Anyone else?

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## Lauri101

A pony would be cool!  I get the reference, of course, but I thought the ponies only went to the children whose parents bought homes in the Meadowwood area?

Since my OM living has only occured in my adulthood, I could be simply confused.

I'd revise upward on what I'd pay for that kind of artwork!

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## bombermwc

swartz - that's a lame excuse. It's the excuse people use when they want to blame someone else for their own problems. Teenagers aren't the problem in MWC...not at all. You go drive around and see how many teenagers you see valdalizing the city....in my 20+ there years I've never seen it. Besides that, there's a curfew that prevents them from being out after like 10:00 except to go home from work. I teach teenagers and I would say that your statement is not reflective of the students at MCHS for sure.

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## Velvetaunt

Hey there,

I grew up in Del City, but I moved to Tulsa 27 years ago.  I still have family there and have been there many times since.  It breaks my heart to see the condition of the houses and the crime there.  I was hoping to return for retirement years, but I am not so sure I will now.

I was hoping that the economy would turn around there and see people start to fix up the houses, but seeing how the rental rate is around 60% I doubt that things will ever change.

Before I moved to Tulsa I lived in the apartment complex facing the highway on the north side for about three months with two other ladies.  We moved out because all of a sudden a huge amount of questionable characters started moving in.  Parties all hours of the night, drugs being purchased out of the back of vans, groups of guys gathering in the parking lots at night - made me reeeal uneasy.  After moving I heard that HUD had something to do with the sudden change.  Who knows!  I was glad to get out of there.

I have seen the amazing changes taking place in Midwest City and hope Del City will benefit from the growth, but I think it will take more than just a shot in the arm to fix the problem

The problem Del City has happened right from the start.  Planners did not plan for the future.  They had no plans for industry to move in and provide jobs for people.  I guess they were relying on Tinker to always be there.  Now the city is boxed in on all sides and no room now for business growth - all housing, schools and existing business.

My uncle graduated from the first class of Del city high school.  All the houses round it were new and well maintained (I lived on Thomas Avenue - I could see the glass windows of the church next door to it from my front porch).  Tax payers paid good money to build that school, but when students graduated, there was no way to stay in the community and support themselves.  Once they went off to college they never returned.  Many of the parents moved off to some where else and either sold their home or rented it out.

Just before I left I lived in a garage apartment that was in good shape for the most part, but I could pull nails out of the window seal with my fingers.  It is a sad state of affairs when a community starts to die.  I find it hard to believe that anything could save it now.

Vel

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## Thunder

I live in Del City for many years and I still do, Velvetaut.  It is a fine place to live.  Every city has a bad place.  No need to put down Del City.  I feel safe living here.

Del City got a WalMart and things is getting better business wise.  There are constructions on 29th and Sooner, which I hope will be similar to MWC's shopping centers on 29th.

People tend to look at the negatives, I don't.  I told mom about the house that Luke was selling and how I was interested and how Luke taught me some things involving purchasing a house.  She right out said Lazy Lane is a bad area.

The apartment that you used to live, Velvetaunt, is Logan Point (i think) and people generally say it is a bad area.  Well, I live just across the highway at Eagle Point and people say it is a bad area.  I'm still breathing, right?  The most problem I have is moronic kids pressing the doorbell and run off.  Recently, destroyed all my flowers, which I have none left, except for one saved and given to mom.

Bottom line, every city has a bad side with moronic kids running around.

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## easternobserver

The biggest problem facing both cities is a housing stock that was built in a half-assed, slipshod manner and then was never properly maintained.  The flat top frame houses that comprise the cores of both cities were not made to be 60 year houses, and have reached the end of useful life.  Some have been maintained and upgraded, but most have not.  Now they are being bought by absentee landlords who are often more interested in the depreciation tax write-off than in putting money into them to ensure continued utility.  

Make no mistake - a primary driver for the problems faced by these cities is are federal policies that haveencouraged building interstate highways for intra-city transportation and have kept gasoline costs unnaturally low, thus facilitating a constant move outward in a completely unsustainable manner.  Now, these policies are continued by "bailouts" for all of the people who bought houses they could not afford and kept pumping money into a vicious cycle.  The losers -- inner ring suburbs that were left with large amounts of rental property, and responsible property owners who bought houses they could actually afford and have paid their bills.  Now, all taxpayers will pay for the excessive consumption that has decimated our center cities and inner ring suburbs.

Honestly, cities like Del City and Midwest City have an unfair disadvantage when it comes to continued growth and positive development.

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## bombermwc

If that's all true eastern...then why has development in Choctaw never taken off? It's the next town out and it's still mostly country land. Same goes for all of the Carl Albert part of Mid-Del. All of the economic development is IN MWC.

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## Velvetaunt

Intereting posts!

Well, if I were to become suddently wealthy I would come back to Del City and try to turn it around.  In my dreams I could see building some retirement communities there (let face it the numbers for retirees in the near future are staggering), then I would buy my old family home, completely re-do it and eventually start buying up houses -  fix them up and make them useful for young families to have a decent place to live.  But before all that I would start with city hall - make them enforce ordinances that probably are already in the books about home ownership and the responsibilities of upkeep.  I would also find a way to limit the amount of rental properties in the city that big real estate companies can purchase and rent out, and somehow make them responsibile for the condition of those homes.

Sigh - if only it were something as simple as money.

Vel

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## Thunder

They are building a new retirement community in Del City on the north side of I-40, between Sunnylane and Scott.

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## Velvetaunt

I know about that one, my sister and her husband were in the process of moving in when she died about a year ago.  It cost them about $1,600 a month to live there.  He moved in but since then has moved to a house for rent for much less.

My sister was a diabetic - had been for 35 years and needed to be where she could get help if she needed it.  But, there at the end she was in and out of the hospital so much we knew it was just a matter of time.  Anyway, that's why they moved there, for medical emergencies and meals etc.  She could not do much by then.

But I do hope more is on the way because there will surely be a need for it soon.

Vel

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## Redskin 70

> Intereting posts!
> 
> Well, if I were to become suddently wealthy I would come back to Del City and try to turn it around.  In my dreams I could see building some retirement communities there (let face it the numbers for retirees in the near future are staggering), then I would buy my old family home, completely re-do it and eventually start buying up houses -  fix them up and make them useful for young families to have a decent place to live.  But before all that I would start with city hall - make them enforce ordinances that probably are already in the books about home ownership and the responsibilities of upkeep.  I would also find a way to limit the amount of rental properties in the city that big real estate companies can purchase and rent out, and somehow make them responsibile for the condition of those homes.
> 
> Sigh - if only it were something as simple as money.
> 
> Vel


Vel,
welcome back to Del City.
regarding the situation of the rental homes.    By Federal law you could NOT limit hrental ownership.  Part of the crisis regarding the rental properties has to do with the sub prime mortgauge institutions.   DId you know that  you cannot get a conventional home mortgage if you are going to rent the property so the slum lords have to go with secondary mortgages and they have grossly over extended to the point they cannot get sufficient rental income  to do property maintenance.

Did you know that Del CIty has an aggressive policey for code enforcement going.  In the last three years they have spent $57,000 in public money to  condem, tear down, fine, and haul off trash on these rental propertys.

They have also condemned  close to one hundred homes for habitation and evicted tenants because of the slum lords.  
They budgeted $15,00 just this year for abatement and I understand they are already out of money and need more to continue the process.

In addition they have started a program of housing inspection on rental property's and are forcing the slumlords to fix up the propertys or they dont get to rent them out.   

In addition the building codes have been seriously updated to current national standards and the home builders and re modelers are being forced to build them right.  The contractors are screaming bloody murder over that.  

Part of the problem is  the contractor are doing their work on Saturdays and Sundays now to avoid being caught by the building and code officials.  That problem is compounded with the property owners being complacient and not getting proper building permits.  I know of one instance just down the street from me where a property owner buil an unsafe un-inspected and non-permitted garage in their back yard.  They were forced to tear  it down.  
-
There have been several news articles in both the papers and on TV of houses that Del CIty has condemned and evicted tenants or spent several thousand  dollars to clean up one property.   

Do be aware of two facts, the Home builders association and the Rental management property's have very powerful lobby's at the state capital and they are constantly trying to change the laws to their benefit.
I am personally aware of a home owner who suffered damage from the 99 tornado.  It was to his roof and when he had it re-roofed he did not get a permit nor any inspections.  The roof failed on him and upon inspection by the city inspector it was determined that he had severe roo rafter and brace damage from the tornado.  So he saved $25 bucks on a permit and lost several thousand dollars on the roof job because there was major damage.  I know this as he is a personal  fired.
 :Tiphat:

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## Thunder

Redskin, interesting.

How much money is the city getting from taxes at WalMart a year?

New constructions is going up and the city will get more money.

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## easternobserver

Bomber - the development you are speaking of is commercial development.  This is part of the overrall problem.  Choctaw and Harrah and even out to McLoud (and the same is true on other sides of the metro too - Newcastle was never meant for the type of housing additions going up there) have huge numbers of new houses, all large, all on large tracts of land.  This is the unsustainable growith to which I am referring.  The fact that the commercial development is happening closer in is only compounding the issue to an extent.  In a sustainable community, people live close to where they shop and work.  In the OKC metro, we have sprawl.  Unsustainable housing growth keeps migrating out, away from the employers and the shopping.  This leaves the central city and the inner ring suburbs decimated, with their housing stock left to be preyed on by the absentee landlords.

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## easternobserver

Dont get me wrong -- sprawl is really a sort of twisted interpretation of the American Dream -- but dont overlook that it is not pure economic reality, and would not be possible without government interferance (building interstate highways, keeping gas prices low, now bailing out subprime mortgages).  This interference is hurting our cities - the evidence is clear.

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## Velvetaunt

> Dont get me wrong -- sprawl is really a sort of twisted interpretation of the American Dream -- but dont overlook that it is not pure economic reality, and would not be possible without government interferance (building interstate highways, keeping gas prices low, now bailing out subprime mortgages).  This interference is hurting our cities - the evidence is clear.


Yes, I agree easternobserver.  It has happened here in Tulsa too.  People are moving out of the city (and I don't blame them - like you said - the american dream).  As a result businesses are closing, leaving local areas high and dry.  Crime becomes out of control and business properties begin to deteriorate.  Several areas where I have lived in Tulsa have had this happened to them.

Fortunately, where I live now the city took an aggressive approach to bring the area back up and now the shopping properties are at 99% occupancy again.

Even though I am not an advocate of "sustainable development", I do see that times are changing and we need go with the flow when we see our way of life in danger.

Tulsa is also on the move to condemn houses (mostly in the north).  But I can see big business is wanting the property.  I have to admit that North Tulsa is lacking adequate shops in this area and needs a shot in the arm development wise, but I don't like the idea of forcing independent land owners out of their properties.  I guess there is no good option to the problem and it has to be done at some point.

Redskin 70,

Thanks for the update on the aggressive move Del City is taking to improve things.  I am impressed indeed!  Perhaps, if and when I do move back, things will be much better.  I do hope so!

Eight more years to retirement!

Vel

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## mmonroe

What about the fact that the largest employer in the state encourages you to live farther away with a monetary compensation?

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## bombermwc

Eastern - I think you don't pay much attention to the residetnial development in MWC either. Did you know that MWC has one of the higher building rates of homes in the OKC area???? There is SOOOO much being built east of Douglas. AND, they are infilling in older areas as well. Maybe you missed the new homes south of 10th on Air Depot? Or maybe the ones on 15th near Soldier Creek. Like so many things in MWC...you don't see them from the main roads...and they are built that way on purpose. It's observation vs. knowledge. What you see isn't always what exists. 

Check the new home numbers over the last say 10 years and I think you'd be surprised. MWC is FAR from going downhill.

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## Velvetaunt

Yes, I have noticed it too.  My youngest sister and her husband still lives in Midwest City.  She keeps me up to date on things there.

Also, I think it would be cool if people would think "retro" and buy up the older homes, fix em up and make it a really cool thing for people to do.  Recycle is a good thang!

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## easternobserver

New development is great -- in fact, the type of development you are referencing is quite positive, it gives people a way to live and work in the same areas.  Same goes for several new Del City developments.  That said, they are a drop in the bucket compared to the outlying developments.  Imagine if the money behind those development was being used to redevelop the inner suburbs -- as for going downhill, I never said MWC was going downhill.  That said, all of the inner suburbs are feeling the wrath of the absentee landlords and a generally aging housing stock.

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## dimac01

I have lived in MWC for almost 30 years and I stay because it is comfortable.  I didn't have to stay here when my kids graduated from high school - I chose to.  I live in one of those low rent (I call it affordable) apartments and it is clean, friendly and I can come home at any time of the night and not be afraid to walk from the parking lot to my door.  I know my neighbors and feel safe here.  It's small, quiet and nice to walk outside and have people say hello to you not just ignore you.  I'm glad we finally are building up the city along 29th but wish they would do something with the empty corners at mw & reno.  Why not put in a large book store in either the old wal mart or target?  Every city - including Edmond - has its ghetto areas.  That isn't going to change.  People should really talk to the people that live here if they are considering moving here.  It's a good choice.

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## bombermwc

Remember the hospital has owned Target since it was vacated. That purchase is what spawned their move...otherwise they'd proably still be there. That's why you've never seen any "for lease" signs. Plus if you poke around here, I think I posted the rendering of what the new facade will look like after they start remodeling the place....which they said was supposed to be end of this year.

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## okcsince1987

If you want to see real crime go to the southwest side of OKC. Come on. MWC is not that bad. From what I've seen it's doing alright but I haven't had a real chance to cruise the streets in awhile since I am living in New York now. Maybe things have got worse but I haven't seen anything on news9.com or anything lately. I remember watching a segement on gangs in that area about 7 years ago though. It looks as if it has cleaned up well.

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## oneforone

MWC has a top notch police department in my opnion. We were driving down Air Depot near Traub Elementary. A little teenage girl threw a large rock right at our car. We turned around and pulled into Traub to see if she would come back out. Sure enough she did we shot down the road and pulled into the drive of the house she ran into. MWCPD was thier in a matter of seconds. 

On another occassion I had to visit headquarters for do my fingerprint cards for work. Chief Clabes was passing through the lobby, he stopped shook my hand and chatted with me for a few minutes. I thought it was pretty cool the cheif of police was not immune to meet the public.

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## Bostonfan

> *MWC has a top notch police department* in my opnion. We were driving down Air Depot near Traub Elementary. A little teenage girl threw a large rock right at our car. We turned around and pulled into Traub to see if she would come back out. Sure enough she did we shot down the road and pulled into the drive of the house she ran into. MWCPD was thier in a matter of seconds. 
> 
> On another occassion I had to visit headquarters for do my fingerprint cards for work. Chief Clabes was passing through the lobby, he stopped shook my hand and chatted with me for a few minutes. I thought it was pretty cool the cheif of police was not immune to meet the public.


 :Congrats:   I would have to agree

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## mmonroe

I've supported the MWCPD monetarily about every 6 months when I get some random ticket.  Illegal lane change, Tag light out, etc...  Trust me, when they pull you over for some random, not so important, reason, you know the crime rate has to be down.  They're bored.  


MWC.  They are growing, I just wish they built to be sustainable.

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## route66gal

MWC is fine. Lots of my family live there still and have kids in the schools too, no real complaints. Del City is getting better too than it was 10 years ago, agree. The only complaint I really have about MWC is trash mountain. Can they please stop changing the landscape looking north?

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## mmonroe

Not to mention Mid-Del schools.  They are one of the better independent school districts.

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## route66gal

> Not to mention Mid-Del schools.  They are one of the better independent school districts.


100% better than the schools in OKC.

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## mmonroe

Hands down.

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## Thunder

Yes, the school district is one of the best.  They accomodate deaf students.  Now with the state law require interpreters to be at least a certified level 3 or higher, it is expensive to pay them.

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## Lauri101

> (snip)MWC has a top notch police department in my opinion.Chief Clabes was passing through the lobby, he stopped shook my hand and chatted with me for a few minutes. I thought it was pretty cool the chief of police was not immune to meet the public.


I was on the MWC Traffic and Safety Council for about 10 years.  Chief Clabes would come to the meetings regularly - the first time I met him, he introduced himself with "Hi, Lauri - I'm Brandon" with that boyish grin.  It wasn't until one of the other councilmembers said "Hi Chief" before I realized who he was!

Very down to earth and fantastic C of P.  We're lucky to have him leading MWC's finest - and they are.

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## mireaux

> Source?



shattered glass in the residential streets at night should be a valid source. people in edmond are more finicky about the types of automobiles that they think that have to drive.

...and would be auto crooks also know this. foolish enough to leave in parked in the street outside your home and not in your garage leads to a crook's paradise.

ive seen many stories on KOCO, KFOR and various other news stations about rampant crime sprees in edmond. 

if youre gonna be a crook might as well go where the gold is at, and edmond has it in droves.

i havent even touched home burglaries either...

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## Karried

http://newsok.com/crimewatch

I can't really tell... Edmond isn't on this website.  

And I can't tell from broken windshields source either.. no one parks on the street in this neighborhood.  

I'm just feeling lucky that in 7 years I haven't been robbed.. knock on wood.. maybe the alarm and the dog helped?

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## bombermwc

You know, actually I would feel safer about being robbed in the Origional Mile than in many of the neighborhoods in Edmond. Mireaux put it pretty accurately. You see a lot of robberies in places where the money is greater. MWC is very middle class average america. Edmond is more upscale and they attract the wrong kind of people because of it. If you're a burglar, are you going to go to MWC where the person may or may not be at home but probably does have an alarm but what they have inside will probably be more average than anything, or are you going to go to Edmond where your chances are that there is an alarm, but the person is at work and their stuff is more expensive?

MWC definitely has plenty nice neighborhoods with large and very expensive homes, but most people just don't know that. And I'm fine with them not figuring it out....it's a nice secret for those of us that grew up there. I was never robbed while I lived there, and no one I ever knew that lived there was. I'm sure there are people who have been robbed there, but it's not like it's a big problem. Now north of 10th.....whole other place there.

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## Lauri101

I've lived in the Original Sq Mile for 25 years and never had one problem.  

Well, ok - I did have a dog come into the yard and steal cat food, but I'm ok with that.

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## soonerfaithful

My grandparents bought this house in the original square milk in 1964. I grew up in this house and after my grandfather passed a few years ago I'm back. 
Having someone in this house for almost 45 years now we have never had anything happen. 
Growing up we did have our one druggie house in the 70's. The most excitement then was when the police would do their "surprise" raid of the house. The a couple of years ago one of my  daughters cars was parked in the street and broken into. Actually I can't say broken into since it wasn't locked. Other then that we've had nothing.
Looking at the crimewatch it seems we have a little area right around where I am that is a quite area.
I'd have to say compared to some other areas we've been pretty fortunate in our little mile over the years.

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## mmonroe

square milk.

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