# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Midwest City/Del City >  Rose State College

## Plutonic Panda

Couldn't find a thread for this. Thought it deserved its own thread and I found these proposed renovations. 

Rose State College officials in Midwest City propose $21.9 million bond issue | News OK

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## bombermwc

Since it's a state school, why is the state not helping contribute to these projects? I'm not sure why the Mid-Del/Choctaw area is the only one being asked to pay for this. It's not as though OU bonds-out to Norman do they?

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## Plutonic Panda

> Since it's a state school, why is the state not helping contribute to these projects? I'm not sure why the Mid-Del/Choctaw area is the only one being asked to pay for this. It's not as though OU bonds-out to Norman do they?


I kind of wondered about that.

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## ou48A

> Since it's a state school, why is the state not helping contribute to these projects? I'm not sure why the Mid-Del/Choctaw area is the only one being asked to pay for this. It's not as though OU bonds-out to Norman do they?


On only one occasion that I know of did the city of Norman let bonds for an OU project?
It was for the Sam Noble Natural history museum. If I remember correctly it was $15 million.
Norman has cooperated with moving streets and utilities for OU projects.

Since my wife is an adjunct professor at Rose State it would be very nice if their professors received a nice raise. 
There are many who are under paid for the work they do.

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## bombermwc

Yeah right now, i'd vote no since it's scope of bond is so narrow. RSC isn't a school district. It shouldn't be limited to mid-del/choctaw.

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## Bimmerdude

Well, they obviosuly have money to renovate the buildings along I-40.....

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## amanda_

I'd vote no too.  It seems like they should be taking care of this stuff anyway and not trying to tax us more.  It is kinda typical for a government school...raise tuition, raise fees and tax everybody.  I'll bet they will want more and raise tuition too!  VOTE NO!

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## amanda_

Let's all agree to vote NO since government can't seem to spend money well.  What is a government bureaucrat's solution for hard times: TAX MORE!

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## bombermwc

It's not that i disagree with the project. But i do feel like the scope of the bond should be larger.

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## ewoodard70

I used to work summers in the maintenance department of Rose State, I know the budget for repair work is not what it needs to be. The department would get the new budget on July 1 and would have to work from that. However I do agree with Bomber that the scope should be larger and include Jones and Harrah as well.

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## Midtowner

> Since it's a state school, why is the state not helping contribute to these projects? I'm not sure why the Mid-Del/Choctaw area is the only one being asked to pay for this. It's not as though OU bonds-out to Norman do they?


For one thing, you have a number of legislators (a large number) who don't understand that revenue bonds are constitutional.  For another thing, Mid-Del/Choctaw area folks are the only people attending Rose State.  I'm willing to betcha Rose State doesn't attract a lot of students from all over the state like OU or OSU or even UCO.  It's a community college serving a very local purpose.  Apparently, Rose State also has tech-ed programs utilized by local HS students, so either improve existing facilities or lose students and dollars to UCO.

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## Midtowner

> Let's all agree to vote NO since government can't seem to spend money well.  What is a government bureaucrat's solution for hard times: TAX MORE!


Do you think current money spent on community colleges is being mishandled?

If so, explain yourself.

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## bombermwc

I can understand part of the use-tax idea there Midtowner, but i dont feel that education is something that gets to use use-tax. I went to a private university, yet i contributed and still to (in taxes) to public education which includes the universities. I'm not complaining about that, i think that's how it should be. 

However, that's part of it being a state institution. If you want to work local donors for projects or take on debt for something like construction, that's your thing. But if you want to bond it out, then you need to have a STATE bond that has your projects in it. NOT focus it in one area and say, "you use it so you pay it". If they feel they need to recoup cost from the high schools using the pool, then charge them. You'll see them cut their swim teams (or the district will bond to build their own pool...but probably not from a liability standpoint) and then that cash will dissapear. But just because someone from Piedmont may or may not go to Rose, that doesn't mean that as a state institution, they should have the responsibility to help maintain the place. That's why it's a STATE school. It may be a community college, but it's still state. As far as I know, the EOC area doesn't pay a seperate tax to have the school there. If that's not the case, please educate me because that would alter my position significantly.

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## Midtowner

> I can understand part of the use-tax idea there Midtowner, but i dont feel that education is something that gets to use use-tax. I went to a private university, yet i contributed and still to (in taxes) to public education which includes the universities. I'm not complaining about that, i think that's how it should be. 
> 
> However, that's part of it being a state institution. If you want to work local donors for projects or take on debt for something like construction, that's your thing. But if you want to bond it out, then you need to have a STATE bond that has your projects in it. NOT focus it in one area and say, "you use it so you pay it". If they feel they need to recoup cost from the high schools using the pool, then charge them. You'll see them cut their swim teams (or the district will bond to build their own pool...but probably not from a liability standpoint) and then that cash will dissapear. But just because someone from Piedmont may or may not go to Rose, that doesn't mean that as a state institution, they should have the responsibility to help maintain the place. That's why it's a STATE school. It may be a community college, but it's still state. As far as I know, the EOC area doesn't pay a seperate tax to have the school there. If that's not the case, please educate me because that would alter my position significantly.


All schools are state institutions.

Local schools receiving bond money is routine.  Why is this different?

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## amanda_

> All schools are state institutions.
> 
> Local schools receiving bond money is routine.  Why is this different?


Local K-12 schools.  UCO doesn't tax and issues bonds taxing Edmond property owners--and Rose shouldn't tax us!  When I was a student at Rose, there were LOTS of students from other than Mid-Del.  My dad lives in Choctaw and they don't pay property tax to Rose.  I live in MWC and I get taxed for a Choctaw student?  It smells like you know what......

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## Midtowner

Comparing UCO to Rose State is just ridiculous.  UCO has students who come from all over the state, some from out of the state and out of the country.  It is of statewide importance.  UCO is currently working on securing a revenue bond to begin construction on a $38MM Medical Examiner's office to be connected with the OSBI office and the UCO Forensics programs which are nationally recognized.  Rose State, on the other hand offers a few Associates degrees, you can get a Bachelor's (through UCO) and is basically a glorified high school.  Local high schools do make use of Rose and many of their Tech Ed programs.  Rose has a huge impact on the Mid/Del economy and it would be economically beneficial for you to expand operations there and try to serve as many students as possible.  These students eat in your restaurants, buy things at your local stores and buy gas at your gas stations. 

This isn't just a bond on MWC.  It's the Rose State Tech Ed district.  You see, many high school students attend Rose during school hours to learn things like welding and autocad.  These students come from the Tech Ed district, which includes Del City, parts of OKC and Choctaw.  The tax would be applied to those areas as well, not just MWC.  The amount of the tax is negligble.  $1.67 per month per $100,000 home.  

The basic assumptions you have made are wrong.  Go read the article the OP posted.  At least attempt to know what you're objecting to.

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## amanda_

I don't buy your arguments--and I DID READ the article.  You come across as some paid government hack for RSC.  How much are you getting from the bond?  Schools, the government -- all of them need to live within their means.  _VOTE NO!_




> Comparing UCO to Rose State is just ridiculous.  UCO has students who come from all over the state, some from out of the state and out of the country.  It is of statewide importance.  UCO is currently working on securing a revenue bond to begin construction on a $38MM Medical Examiner's office to be connected with the OSBI office and the UCO Forensics programs which are nationally recognized.  Rose State, on the other hand offers a few Associates degrees, you can get a Bachelor's (through UCO) and is basically a glorified high school.  Local high schools do make use of Rose and many of their Tech Ed programs.  Rose has a huge impact on the Mid/Del economy and it would be economically beneficial for you to expand operations there and try to serve as many students as possible.  These students eat in your restaurants, buy things at your local stores and buy gas at your gas stations. 
> 
> This isn't just a bond on MWC.  It's the Rose State Tech Ed district.  You see, many high school students attend Rose during school hours to learn things like welding and autocad.  These students come from the Tech Ed district, which includes Del City, parts of OKC and Choctaw.  The tax would be applied to those areas as well, not just MWC.  The amount of the tax is negligble.  $1.67 per month per $100,000 home.  
> 
> The basic assumptions you have made are wrong.  Go read the article the OP posted.  At least attempt to know what you're objecting to.

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## Midtowner

> I don't buy your arguments--and I DID READ the article.  You come across as some paid government hack for RSC.  How much are you getting from the bond?  Schools, the government -- all of them need to live within their means.  _VOTE NO!_


Schools depend on bond issues to live within their means.  Bonds are debt incurred for the purpose of making out of the ordinary purchases or capital improvements which are not part of an ordinary state budget.  Leaky roofs don't happen every year, so the legislature doesn't need to make an appropriation to fix perfectly good roofs.  When roofs do leak though (and Rose State has a serious problem at the swimming pool), the only way to fix things is by incurring debt.  

Check this out:

OSCN Found Document:Indebtedness for capital improvements at state institutions

In 1968, the state voted to amend the Constitution to grant the Board of Regents for Higher Education the power to issue bonds in the amount of $38MM.  That was real money back then and today doesn't scratch the surface.

Back then, we were also funding a much greater part of the cost of educating students at universities with taxpayer dollars than today.  We now have a growing number of buildings which become more dilapidated and expensive to repair every single year and the legislature is cutting taxes instead of allowing these schools to pay their bills.  

All of the information in my previous reply came from the same NewsOk article.  It stated that the folks voting would be within the Tech Ed district and that the district serves the Mid/Del area, parts of OKC and Choctaw.  The Tech Ed students who go to Rose State are high school students, not college students.  

Without bonds, we couldn't have high school music programs--instruments can be extremely expensive--replacing every instrument in an high school band is a six-figure proposition.  You probably wouldn't say we should shutter all high school music programs, would you?  Or would you expect that a low income student who is going to play the bassoon for 4 years buy his own?  (a "cheap" model is about $6,000).  I'm fine either way.  The state legislature could appropriate enough to school districts so they can afford to pay for band instruments every year and replace them as they go, or save before they open a new campus to be able to afford instruments and uniforms OR we could ask the communities which directly benefit from these expenditures to chip in what is probably an additional .5% or something more on their property tax bills.  

As for whether I'm a "government hack" or not, what would that matter?  What I'm telling you is true whether I'm Joe the Plumber or Mary Fallin's Chief of Staff.  In reality, I'm an attorney--the private kind.  I don't do education law or have a dog in the hunt with Rose State.  I'm just talking to someone on the internet [you] who apparently has formed a very strong opinion about something she really doesn't understand.  

Take a step back re-examine the facts without forming conclusions first.  Bond issues are precisely how these entities live within their means.  If we did it your way, football and band programs would be a thing of the past as well as school buildings, school buildings getting roofs replaced, capital improvements, welding classes, agricultural classes, new computers, and everything schools absolutely rely on bond money to buy.  Do you think a new roof after your current roof collapses is excessive?  A luxury?  No?  Okay then, answer for me how Rose State is not living within their means by asking for the folks they serve to chip in a little.

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## amanda_

I really don't like lawyers.  You all clutter up stuff.  Bottom line is schools take too much money and you know it too.  It is just that you are part of the lawyer class that make their money off of this kind of crap.  You're just like the college...a tick sucking blood.




> Schools depend on bond issues to live within their means.  Bonds are debt incurred for the purpose of making out of the ordinary purchases or capital improvements which are not part of an ordinary state budget.  Leaky roofs don't happen every year, so the legislature doesn't need to make an appropriation to fix perfectly good roofs.  When roofs do leak though (and Rose State has a serious problem at the swimming pool), the only way to fix things is by incurring debt.  
> 
> Check this out:
> 
> OSCN Found Document:Indebtedness for capital improvements at state institutions
> 
> In 1968, the state voted to amend the Constitution to grant the Board of Regents for Higher Education the power to issue bonds in the amount of $38MM.  That was real money back then and today doesn't scratch the surface.
> 
> Back then, we were also funding a much greater part of the cost of educating students at universities with taxpayer dollars than today.  We now have a growing number of buildings which become more dilapidated and expensive to repair every single year and the legislature is cutting taxes instead of allowing these schools to pay their bills.  
> ...

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## Plutonic Panda

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't Rose State a branch of UCO?

Edit: Or a better term for that would be an off campus site funded or owned by UCO.

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## amanda_

Colleges charge tuition...more tuition...fees...more fees...tax...more tax....tax property...tax this...tax that.  Vote NO.




> Correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't Rose State a branch of UCO?
> 
> Edit: Or a better term for that would be an off campus site funded or owned by UCO.

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## Midtowner

> I really don't like lawyers.  You all clutter up stuff.  Bottom line is schools take too much money and you know it too.  It is just that you are part of the lawyer class that make their money off of this kind of crap.  You're just like the college...a tick sucking blood.


Are you for real?

How do we clutter stuff up.  Be specific.  Entertain me.

And you think a college education is a bad thing?

I don't stand to make money on this deal, who would make money would be whichever roofing companies and construction companies who win the bidding process.  Maybe some attorneys to handle the transactional details to ensure everyone gets paid and construction moves as planned and all the insurance, etc. is right.  Also, folks who buy public bonds as investments would make a little bit of tax-free interest income off of the bonds.  I can assure you, no lawyer is getting rich off of this deal.

I'm just not sure you get it... if you have a house and the roof leaks and insurance won't cover it, what do you do?  Chastise yourself for not living within your means?  Or take out a loan which you can easily afford?

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## Midtowner

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't Rose State a branch of UCO?
> 
> Edit: Or a better term for that would be an off campus site funded or owned by UCO.


Nope.  Rose State is a community college.  UCO is organized under the regional university system of Oklahoma.  The main difference is that on Rose States' campus, you'll find a lot of Associates degree programs (I don't think UCO offers those at all).  Associates degrees tend to focus more on the subject area, where a bachelor's is going to include things like a requirement that you take liberal arts classes, classes on philosophy, humanities, world languages, etc.

UCO does have an extension at Rose State where students can take classes on Rose State's campus but receive credit towards a bachelor's degree.  That's one of the values of a place like Rose State--they're reaching out to students who ordinarily couldn't obtain higher education due to work requirements, having a family, etc., and doing it at a fraction of the cost of a for-profit school (compare $79 per credit at Rose to sometimes in the neighborhood of $1,000 per credit at some for-profit schools) and at the same time providing a better quality education as well as a more recognizable degree to get students further in the workplace.

Rose has a lot of programs you won't find at UCO and vice versa.  If you want to get a quick 2-year paralegal certificate, you can go from flipping burgers to a $25/hour job with benefits and do it without incurring massive student debt. 

Education is one of the government's core functions and a no vote here is going to result in the decay of Rose's campus and just result in the taxpayers being hit up for even more money after more decay occurs.

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## Plutonic Panda

> Colleges charge tuition...more tuition...fees...more fees...tax...more tax....tax property...tax this...tax that.  *Vote NO*.


Well, I couldn't vote if I wanted to, as I live in Edmond.  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Plutonic Panda

> Nope.  Rose State is a community college.  UCO is organized under the regional university system of Oklahoma.  The main difference is that on Rose States' campus, you'll find a lot of Associates degree programs (I don't think UCO offers those at all).  Associates degrees tend to focus more on the subject area, where a bachelor's is going to include things like a requirement that you take liberal arts classes, classes on philosophy, humanities, world languages, etc.
> 
> UCO does have an extension at Rose State where students can take classes on Rose State's campus but receive credit towards a bachelor's degree.  That's one of the values of a place like Rose State--they're reaching out to students who ordinarily couldn't obtain higher education due to work requirements, having a family, etc., and doing it at a fraction of the cost of a for-profit school (compare $79 per credit at Rose to sometimes in the neighborhood of $1,000 per credit at some for-profit schools) and at the same time providing a better quality education as well as a more recognizable degree to get students further in the workplace.
> 
> Rose has a lot of programs you won't find at UCO and vice versa.  If you want to get a quick 2-year paralegal certificate, you can go from flipping burgers to a $25/hour job with benefits and do it without incurring massive student debt. 
> 
> Education is one of the government's core functions and a no vote here is going to result in the decay of Rose's campus and just result in the taxpayers being hit up for even more money after more decay occurs.


Aha, I see. So Francis Tuttle would be kind of like that, but more for specialty type classes and engineering, I'm guessing. Well, it makes sense anyways. About Rose State.

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## Midtowner

> Aha, I see. So Francis Tuttle would be kind of like that, but more for specialty type classes and engineering, I'm guessing. Well, it makes sense anyways. About Rose State.


Francis Tuttle is different.  It's part of the Vo Tech system, which stands for vocational technology.  They'll teach you how to weld, build furniture, painting, carpentry, construction, working on cars, etc.

I'm not 100% sure which tech ed services are at Rose.  I'm guessing some of the medical certificates might be there like Respiratory Therapy, etc.

As for engineering, you can get some kind of Associates, but if you want a bachelor's, you have to go to a university.

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## Hawk405359

It's just basic economics.  Colleges bring students from out of the area.  Those students, whether they live on campus or not, spend money there. THat money goes into local coffers, which in turn pays for the roads and parks and things of that nature.  In turn, colleges provide jobs for local residents and have the facilities to host events which can draw other out of towners in to spend money.  Colleges are a pretty good investment for a city, assuming they're not fly-by-night or for-profit.  There's a reason Norman and Stillwater both work with the schools there closely, it's good for the city.

Still, this is a very narrow bond, and it'll be a tough sell without some major visual project.  Non-sexy projects don't sell to the public, which is a big reason why our infrastructure is so terrible in this state.

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## amanda_

I don't know why some of you can't see the obvious.  Our government is out of control in Washington.  Thank God we have some local politicians trying to make a difference but these liberal hacks like Midtowner think that we should be screwed by taxes.  It is time to draw a line in the sand and say NO.  *VOTE NO.*




> It's just basic economics.  Colleges bring students from out of the area.  Those students, whether they live on campus or not, spend money there. THat money goes into local coffers, which in turn pays for the roads and parks and things of that nature.  In turn, colleges provide jobs for local residents and have the facilities to host events which can draw other out of towners in to spend money.  Colleges are a pretty good investment for a city, assuming they're not fly-by-night or for-profit.  There's a reason Norman and Stillwater both work with the schools there closely, it's good for the city.
> 
> Still, this is a very narrow bond, and it'll be a tough sell without some major visual project.  Non-sexy projects don't sell to the public, which is a big reason why our infrastructure is so terrible in this state.

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## Hawk405359

What's obvious is that education is consistently a good education for a city and state, so much so that our conservative governor pledged *more* spending to support it, which certainly wouldn't be the case of education was just a tick feeding off the public.  Mary Fallin knows the value of it, even as she's busy listing the sins of Washington.  So as long as your not the type of person to have such a knee jerk reaction as to compare a local college to Washington and go into a frothing rage, education spending should be something that you're able to rationally think about.

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## amanda_

Looks like the lawyer has got hawk drinking the koolaid.  You all are too dense to get it--the government has to STOP spending.  The college spending is just another tick sucking blood...just like lawyers are blood suckers too.




> What's obvious is that education is consistently a good education for a city and state, so much so that our conservative governor pledged *more* spending to support it, which certainly wouldn't be the case of education was just a tick feeding off the public.  Mary Fallin knows the value of it, even as she's busy listing the sins of Washington.  So as long as your not the type of person to have such a knee jerk reaction as to compare a local college to Washington and go into a frothing rage, education spending should be something that you're able to rationally think about.

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## Hawk405359

If you want to try a country that has absolutely no government spending, feel free to fly down to Somalia and let us know how that works out.  Well, you can't really fly, since you'd be making use of government spending.  Or drive to a coastline to take a boat.  Or take a boat at all.  Hey, tell you what, you can fashion a raft out trees you grow and take a raft, sail it across the Atlantic, around the horn of Africa, land in Somalia, and then tell us how that works out.  I guarantee you that you won't have to pay a penny to the government there.

But I'll go ahead and type out your response for you to save you time.  "I have no clue how this whole money or economy thing works.  Obama! Washington! grr! anger! I don't know what you said, so insult! What that man on the radio said, etc. etc." 

There, I think I captured your entire argument in essence.  Enjoy the shallow end of the pool, and don't forget your floaties.

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## amanda_

I am not unintelligent.  But, you want to call me stupid: fine.  How about I call you an ass****?  That might fit you and your fellow liberal blood-sucking ticks.  VOTE NO.

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## amanda_

And how about you enjoy the deep end of the pool?  Of course, with you, it would be a cesspool, since you are full of you know what.

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## kevinpate

Gee, if it's so hated, maybe they ought to simply close down RSC. Kind of a bummer for the students, but hey, it's really not all that far over to O-Trip, and just a wild guess on my part, but I'm thinking OKC city govt. and OKC businesses wouldn't object to capturing the sales taxes and discretionary spending of those students.  Might even be able to market shirts that say Happily Attending O-Trip on the front and Amanda Sent Me on the back.

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## amanda_

Be quiet Kevin.  If your opinion is needed, you will know.  But, your opinion will never be needed.

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## Hawk405359

> I am not unintelligent.  But, you want to call me stupid: fine.  How about I call you an ass****?  That might fit you and your fellow liberal blood-sucking ticks.  VOTE NO.


Heh, hit a nerve, huh?  Guess you think you reserve the sole right to insult people's intelligence, don't you?  You obviously aren't interested in actually discussing things like an actual adult, so I saw no need to respond to you as one.  Since you're still incapable of it, you're obviously not worth any more time after this post. 

And nope, I'm a registered republican.  I'm just not so deep in party rhetoric that it prevents me from understanding how the economy and government spending works.  But I am full of quite a few things, reasoning ability, knowledge, general respect for people who actually try to show it to others.

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## kevinpate

Dang ... grumpy much? No need to act as though I'm the one who dropped the house on your sister.

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## amanda_

> Dang ... grumpy much? No need to act as though I'm the one who dropped the house on your sister.


Might you shut up Kevin?  Nobody likes you.

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## Stew

> Might you shut up Kevin?  Nobody likes you.


I have a great deal of respect for Kevin and absolutely get a kick out of his humor. He's an okctalk fave.

I'm just spitballing it here but by chance are you a troll?

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## Plutonic Panda

> Might you shut up Kevin?  Nobody likes you.


I like Kevin. I don't know why we're fighting though, I understand what your saying and I would actually vote no on this project if I could because the scope of the project seems low. But, that of course, is my just opinion.

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## kevinpate

> Might you shut up Kevin?  Nobody likes you.


Turn off text to speech. Might stop the voices. FWIW, I like me. Then again, I am a bit of a nobody. Dang, score one for the flying monkeys and their coach I suppose.

But hey, my grandbabies love me. Anyone else is just extra gravy on the biscuit anyways. Game, set, match.

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## Martin

amanda... you need to cool off.  you can defend your position without resorting to personal attacks. -M

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## Midtowner

> Are you for real?
> 
> How do we clutter stuff up.  Be specific.  Entertain me.
> 
> And you think a college education is a bad thing?
> 
> I don't stand to make money on this deal, who would make money would be whichever roofing companies and construction companies who win the bidding process.  Maybe some attorneys to handle the transactional details to ensure everyone gets paid and construction moves as planned and all the insurance, etc. is right.  Also, folks who buy public bonds as investments would make a little bit of tax-free interest income off of the bonds.  I can assure you, no lawyer is getting rich off of this deal.
> 
> I'm just not sure you get it... if you have a house and the roof leaks and insurance won't cover it, what do you do?  Chastise yourself for not living within your means?  Or take out a loan which you can easily afford?


Amanda, can you answer this without a personal attack?

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## amanda_

> Amanda, can you answer this without a personal attack?


I don't know why you are so dense.  Lawyers clutter it up by thinking they should get rich off of everything.  You charge $200 or more an hour to do what?  To tell government or others how to screw us over.  This is just another example of govt screwing us over.  They might as well be asking for a bond for toilet paper.  Its stupid.  Govt takes lots of our money already and they need to start cutting not adding.  You vote how you damn well want.  I don't care if you get into screwing taxpayers over.

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## amanda_

I guess it is simple: govt likes to screw us over and lawyers are the lube.

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## Easy180

This thread proves some wake up in the morning just to find something to piss them off...Have a few of these as friends on Facebook and they don't seem to get invited to parties

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## Midtowner

> I don't know why you are so dense.  Lawyers clutter it up by thinking they should get rich off of everything.  You charge $200 or more an hour to do what?  To tell government or others how to screw us over.  This is just another example of govt screwing us over.  They might as well be asking for a bond for toilet paper.  Its stupid.  Govt takes lots of our money already and they need to start cutting not adding.  You vote how you damn well want.  I don't care if you get into screwing taxpayers over.


So the answer is no, you won't answer my questions without a personal attack?

I'm guessing not because I already know what the answers are.  In your household, you'd borrow the money because you can't afford to pay cash for a new roof.  

Do you really think a new roof is a similar expense to new toilet paper?

You keep saying all of these silly things.  You're not persuading anyone.  You're just convincing folks how very little you actually understand about what bonds are, how they work and how funding for government buildings works.  Keep on diggin'.  You may yet earn a few more yes votes.

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## Lauri101

Anal fixate much, Amanda?  Could you please wander over to the children's table so the adults can talk?

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## amanda_

> Anal fixate much, Amanda?  Could you please wander over to the children's table so the adults can talk?


Lauri -- shut up.  You think you can bash me?  You are a worthless white trash ****.

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## kevinpate

For those days when Lucy just ain't enough .... *anger management classes midwest city - Google Search*

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## Plutonic Panda

Yeeeeeaaaaapppp. I think the time has come to close this thread.

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## CaptDave

Oh my - ease up on the Tea amanda_ 

And spend some time watching something other than Fox and listening to someone other than Beckbaugh, Hannity, etc......

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## MDot

> amanda... you need to cool off.  you can defend your position without resorting to personal attacks. -M


Apparently she can't. Haha

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## amanda_

> Apparently she can't. Haha


Shut up.  You're a nazi.

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## Midtowner



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## amanda_

> 


People like Midtowner are going to burn in hell fire for blaspheming.

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## Easy180

Oh good lord ban her already

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## amanda_

> Oh good lord ban her already


I will pray for you and the others.  You are going to burn in hell fire for blaspheming.

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## RadicalModerate

> I really don't like lawyers.  You all clutter up stuff.  Bottom line is schools take too much money and you know it too.  It is just that you are part of the lawyer class that make their money off of this kind of crap.  You're just like the college...a tick sucking blood.


It is written that "music soothes the savage breast" . . .
perhaps even that of a "Michelle" Savage, fire-breathing trollette . . .


(Shields up, Scotty . . . and check the dilithium crystals . . .)

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## Plutonic Panda

> 


I'm not a big fan of the Tea Party, but referring to them as the American Taliban is a bit much, doncha think?

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## Plutonic Panda

> Shut up.  You're a nazi.


Can you prove that? Come on, lets stop fighting. This isn't accomplishing anything. I don't like this bond much either, mainly because I don't think it does enough, but I'm sure the swim team will be glad for this. In the mean time, it doesn't help attacking people, calling them names and demonizing them, just because you disagree.

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## RadicalModerate

> I will pray for you and the others.  You are going to burn in hell fire for blaspheming.


Point of Order: This is a nearly perfect example of what is meant in "Scripture" about not being judgmental. Or judgemental if you are in England or possibly Canada, India, Iran or North Korea.  "The Bible" indicates that labeling anyone as "raca" ("spiritual fool who will [go to hell]") is not a real good idea . . . On account of the "same judgement--or judgment--that you apply to others WILL BE APPLIED TO YOU." don't confuse this with "karma".  it ain't 'zackly the same thing . . .

Say! Maybe they need to start a class at Oscar Rose Junior College about stuff like this here.

Nit-picking punctualization Marx have nothing to do with jots and tittles of The Law.
Except for when they do.

So . . . amanda . . . if you ever consider a trip up north that involves passing through Kansas . . . I hear that there is a little chapel up there called Westboro . . .

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## MDot

> Shut up.  You're a nazi.


Actually no, I'm a Republican American like you. Sadly. Haha  :Wink:

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## MDot

> Oh good lord ban her already


It's actually kinda funny. Yes, she's just trolling, but it's a lot funnier than torea's style of trolling. Ha

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## amanda_

> It's actually kinda funny. Yes, she's just trolling, but it's a lot funnier than torea's style of trolling. Ha


You call me a troll because I don't agree with you.  You are going to burn in hell fire for your blaspheming--and America is doomed for her liberal ways.

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## RadicalModerate

> Actually no, I'm a Republican American like you. Sadly. Haha


I used to be a Federalist . . . yet the Whigs had much to offer . . .

So . . . Amanda . . . Are you attempting to start a grass-roots political movement based on intolerant sniping in the direction of those who might prefer Earl Gray to Pekoe in terms of The Proper Tea Party or whut . . . ?  And what is the name of that "meme" or whatever involving the invocation of Hiter (nazi) into a perfectly reasonable discussion of educational funding regarding Rose State College?  I can't remember what that is called . . . 

Just out of curiosity . . . are you the same lady who lost her "treasure bag" at a local hospital recently?
Is this one reason why you have an apparent . . . problem . . . with institutions?

Perhaps Rose State College could have a seminar on this sort of thing.
(with "proper" funding of course . . . like O.E.T.A....NPR.....PBS (possilbly redundant, ref. O.E.T.A.) . . . Create TV (ditto to the cites on the left)

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## MDot

> You call me a troll because I don't agree with you.  You are going to burn in hell fire for your blaspheming--and America is doomed for her liberal ways.


No, I call you a troll because of what you're sayin, such as I'm going to burn in hell because of my blasphemy, not because I don't agree with you. I couldn't care less about the issue at hand. But at least you're having fun with the trolling, I don't fault you for having fun.  :Smile:

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## Martin

let's try to get back to topic. -M

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## RadicalModerate

Rose State College, formerly known as Oscar Rose Junior College, has one of the best auditoriums and campus(es?) ever.
Except, of course, not counting their juxtaposition to the Tinker Diagonal which, to some could be a boon, to others a bane.
I say fund them. (others may disagree . . . that's OK too.)

(i tried mmm . . .  btw: kudos to mdot for the proper usage of "couldn't care less" a.c.t./v.s. "could care less" in that there post up there. sorry: english minor major nazi... c. the S.I. Haiyakawa (sp?) San Francisco State era . . . i tried . . . not to be Anti-Semantic. And intentionally ignored the fact that they don't have a multi-millionare as a football coach . . . yet. =)

p.s. to "amanda": have you considered the advantages of Adidas as compared to other brands in terms of hopping on that soon to be passing asteroid?
nevermind. it doesn't matter.

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## Lauri101

Whew - after the foray into both Godwin's Law and Westboro - glad to get back to subject at hand.

As a beneficiary of the programs at Rose State, I'll probably reluctantly vote yes.  The pool is a huge boon to the area and as a community asset, invaluable especially to senior citizens or others needing warmer water aerobics. Right now, because of room and other problems, the water can't be as warm as needed for rheumatoid arthritis sufferers.
The connectivity is also vital throughout the campus.  Not so sure about library expansion, but since we're not given opportunity to cherry pick bond issues (or tax issues) - hopefully the voting district will pass the bond.

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## TAlan CB

> I'm not a big fan of the Tea Party, but referring to them as the American Taliban is a bit much, doncha think?


Rose State is a very good college, great benifit to the community and great 'bang for the buck', supporting it is wise.

  As the Tea Party includes as great a variety and type of devotee, I would be hesitant to call them Taliban.... but I am sure moderate Muslims think much the same of the Taliban.  Sometimes you have to call a 'rabid dog' a rabid dog, otherwise you should not be surpriesed when it 'bites you in the ass'.  As a former Republican turned Independent, I refuse to associate myselves with  self-rightous ignorance.  Refusing to recognize facts because you don't like them takes you into the realm of stupidity.  (ignorant= don't know, stupid=know the facts, but don't care)

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## Midtowner

> I'm not a big fan of the Tea Party, but referring to them as the American Taliban is a bit much, doncha think?


I dunno.. it's obvious political/religious extremism or she's just a troll.  It's similar to the Taliban in that even with fellow conservatives, there's this insistence that you have to agree with every single thing or you are the enemy.  There's the similar state of being unmoved by facts.  I asked questions (I knew the answers to those questions) and she just repeated the party line rather than even attempt to deal with that information. Very Taliban-like, really.

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## bombermwc

Wow, who knew this thing would take such a stupid turn so quickly...geez. $20 amanda is less than 18 years old though too.

Anyway...Back to RSC.

So i'll live up to my statement that I put in my last post. So based on what MidTowner says, RSC is tax-based from the district it serves. Ie EOC pays in to support it while the same is true of the other areas for their schools....(Mustang/Yukon for Redlands, South/West for OCCC, etc.). If there's already a scope there that justifies why the bond is being applied the way it is, then ok. Point taken, and i'll say vote YES on it.  Again, it's not that  I have a problem with RSC doing things that need to be done, i just had a problem with the limited area that was being asked to support the place.

There are a few things with RSC that I've always wondered why they were there. Mainly the sports. They have Baseball and Softball, and used to have Basketball....and I thought Tennis. So a few things confuse me. Why have a pool if you don't have a swim team since that's a major bond project? High schools in Mid-Del use it a lot as well as a lot of arobic type classes...but no actual real aquatics....granted it's not an OCCC type facility. It's a gym pool more than an aquatics pool. The gym obviously has uses for other things like "fairs" and health classes. And at this point it's not as though the land is needed for the baseball/softball fields. At least the Tennis courts are open for the public to use. I just don't understand why those things are around given what the purpose of Rose is. Something you can say for the atheltics is that at least that's one thing that has drawn students from all over the state and other states even.

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## Plutonic Panda

> Rose State is a very good college, great benifit to the community and great 'bang for the buck', supporting it is wise.
> 
>   As the Tea Party includes as great a variety and type of devotee, I would be hesitant to call them Taliban.... but I am sure moderate Muslims think much the same of the Taliban.  Sometimes you have to call a 'rabid dog' a rabid dog, otherwise you should not be surpriesed when it 'bites you in the ass'.  As a former Republican turned Independent, I refuse to associate myselves with  self-rightous ignorance.  Refusing to recognize facts because you don't like them takes you into the realm of stupidity.  (ignorant= don't know, stupid=know the facts, but don't care)


Yeah, that seems pretty reasonable. Also, I agree with supporting Rose State, I just think they should actually increase the bond and do more than what is currently proposed.

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## Plutonic Panda

> I dunno.. it's obvious political/religious extremism or she's just a troll.  It's similar to the Taliban in that even with fellow conservatives, there's this insistence that you have to agree with every single thing or you are the enemy.  There's the similar state of being unmoved by facts.  *I asked questions (I knew the answers to those questions) and she just repeated the party line rather than even attempt to deal with that information. Very Taliban-like, really*.


True. It's hard to tell, for me in this case, whether she was just trolling or not. When she called Mdot a Nazi that's when I pretty much thought she was just a troll. Anyways, I agree the Tea Party is pretty extreme, no doubt.

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## kelroy55

> I have a great deal of respect for Kevin and absolutely get a kick out of his humor. He's an okctalk fave.
> 
> I'm just spitballing it here but by chance are you a troll?


You have to ask?  lol

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## Midtowner

Glad it passed.

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## Plutonic Panda

Yes, it's a start. I just wish it would've been bigger.

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## mmonroe

*
Rose State College prepares for some changes, including dorms*
Rose State College is adding student housing and a soccer program. 
A number of campus renovations also will be made with bond funds approved by voters last year.
By Kathryn McNutt Published: February 16, 2014 
Rose State College prepares for some changes, including dorms | News OK



MIDWEST CITY  Changes are coming to Rose State College  a lot of changes.
Rose State is going to be exciting, President Jeanie Webb said. This campus will be a very different place in a few years.
Foremost is the addition of student housing. Plans call for opening a residential hall by August 2015.
It's something students have been saying they want for a long time, Webb said.
We will be the only urban community college with housing in Oklahoma, she said.
Rose State also is building a soccer field and adding a soccer program beginning this fall. The college already has baseball and softball.
With the addition of soccer, Rose State has hired Joey DaVault as its first full-time athletic director.
We are going to roll out a men's and women's program. We're going to be competitive, DaVault said.
The Rose State College Student Senate voted to increase the student activity fee to help pay for the soccer program.
Sports is an important part of the college experience, DaVault said, and the students have said they would like more offerings.
Anytime you can connect a student to something on campus, they are much more likely to graduate, Webb said.
Rose State's nearly 8,000 students come in three categories and want different things, she said.
There are adult students, online students and traditional college students who recently graduated from high school.
A college student wants an experience like they get at a university, Webb said.
Rose State's fitness center, leadership programs and student organizations offer that, but being able to live on campus will increase the student life experience, she said.

Student housing
The housing project has been approved by the college's board of regents, but details haven't been finalized, said Kent Lashley, vice president for administrative services.
Preliminary talks call for room for 150 to be built on the northwest part of campus through a private-public partnership, Lashley said.
The addition of student housing brings with it a variety of needs, including security, food service and parking, he said.

Bond projects
Renovation of existing structures across campus  funded by a $22 million bond issue  will begin in March.
We're going to start with the aquatic center, Webb said.
It's more than 30 years old and the most utilized space on campus, Lashley said.
From water aerobics for older adults to swim lessons for 4-year-olds, the facility offers programs for a wide range of people in the community. High schools host swim meets in the pool and Tinker Air Force Base personnel train and test there.
The aquatic center will get a new roof, decking and tile work, Lashley said.
The 15-year bond issue approved by voters last March also will fund renovations to the library, known as the Learning Resource Center.
We hope we will have enough in the budget to be able to expand it as well as update it and make it more of a library of the present and the future with digital media and social areas, Lashley said.
Technology upgrades are also planned.
I just don't think you're going to recognize what this campus is going to look like in a few years, Webb said. The energy and the enthusiasm and the excitement on this campus is coming alive.

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## Plutonic Panda

This is awesome! Hope to see it happen. I had always wanted OCCC to build dorms on their campus.

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## bombermwc

That's great to hear. I think it will actually be a very good thing to get dorms, but I'd like to see how they set the qualifications for residents.

What do you guys think here? Here are a couple thoughts I had on that front:
1 - First thought was to say, only have it available to full-time students. That way it would offset the cost of going to school without being able to work a full-time job.
2 - It's a community college, so typically one would see a student population that is NOT a full time student. So it complicates the mix a little here. I'm sure there's a balance for each person on where to convert from a part/full time student based on expenses. This might allow more students to go full-time. Of course there should be restrictions on the residents like one would see at a university dorm as well.
3 - Apt style / Dorm style, which do you think? I'm sure they already have it planned out. There are benefits to each, but I think I would lean more towards the dorm style given that it's a CC and that it's sort of an assumed short-term experience given that it's a CC....and there are so many cheap alternatives for apartments in MWC/Del City. It's not Norman where they can jack the rent up to 3 times what it's worth just because it's across the street from campus. 

I am a bit curious as to why they are pursuing Soccer and not working to bring back Basketball. They have a gymnasium already, but I can also see the operating costs of a gym being higher than that of a soccer field. Is it that simple or is there more at play with this? Or why not Tennis? Since the courts are already there, it would make even more sense to use them instead of Soccer. My fear with Soccer now is that they will build a structure near Traub (heck, maybe they'll be able to built it ON the Traub site and not have to do it this way), and then end up fencing off an area used by countless 6-12 year old soccer teams for practice. I think almost every one of my soccer teams growing up, practiced on that strip of grass.

Just some rambling thoughts. If anyone has any insider info on it, it would be awesome. I might be able to squeeze something out of a relative. If I can, i'll post it   :Smile:

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## shawnw

I like soccer because of what should be growing popularity of the sport in OKC with the rise of Energy FC.

I'm concerned about the dorms. Hope they won't turn out like the nearby apartments.

But in general I love the idea of Rose expanding. It was my first college and I enjoyed my time there.

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## mmonroe

I've scoured the interwebs and can not find a single rendering.  Called up to Rose, but no help there.

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## bombermwc

It's not nearly as far along as that. I was told that it's really a year further out than reported to the media.

However, the soccer field will be on the site of the Traub playground with the practice field being next to it. Apparently there's some drainage problems to have to clear up before they can really build there though. We may not see Traub dozed either. Rose is going to look at the structure more closely after they take over the building after this school year....remember they already own it.

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## mmonroe

rl.jpg
Residence Life | Rose State College

Some Renderings

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## Plutonic Panda

Rose State College starts construction on student housing | News OK

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## Plutonic Panda

Rose State announces Homeland Security Institute - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

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## Pete

This project is now out to bid and is estimated to cost $18 million:

https://www.rose.edu/content/news-ev...olition-event/

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## bombermwc

That's a little weird because most of the items on that list, were already in that building (cafeteria, meeting hall, bookstore). I feel like they could have added on to the structure to get the other student services in there. But at the same time, the place is old and its definitely due a real facelift.

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## Pete

New student union.

Photos from the contractor, CMS Willowbrook.

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## shawnw

As an alum, I always like to see RSC get some love

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## bombermwc

They've actually been able to spend quite a bit of money in the last few years on several rather expensive projects. I do wonder why they took so long to do some of this work and if they have all of this money (and the money to run the places later), why did they need to cancel basketball and aquatics?

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## SoonersFan12

The student union is very beautiful, it will be a great addition

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## Pete

Press release:

************

ROSE STATE COLLEGE TO RECEIVE $1.3 MILLION FROM THE TANENBAUM FAMILY
Donation ceremony to be held in Midwest City with Gov. Stitt

OKLAHOMA CITY (Oct. 25, 2021)  A donation ceremony will be held on Thursday, Oct. 28, at Rose State College (Rose State) where Glenna and Dick Tanenbaum will be delivering a $1.3 million check for the Tanenbaum Aerospace and Cybersecurity Center. The $1.3 million donation will go towards naming rights to the new facility, program equipment and furnishings.

We could not be more grateful for the Tanenbaum generosity towards our mission of delivering high-quality learning opportunities to our students, Rose State President Dr. Webb said. By training skilled cybersecurity and aerospace professionals, we are helping Oklahomas businesses and economy grow more securely and efficiently.

One of the most significant employment generators in Oklahoma is the aerospace and cybersecurity industry. The new and improved Tanenbaum Aerospace and Cybersecurity Center will aid in giving Rose State students state-of-the-art equipment to master their degree before entering the workforce.

In order to keep this success going, we have to provide high tech employers an educated workforce. What better place to do that than Rose State College right next door to Tinker Air Force base? Gardner Tanenbaum Principal Owner and CEO Dick Tanenbaum said. These airmen are patriots and warriors who must be trained to support the defense of our country.  They depend on a well-trained and educated workforce. If companies cant recruit the talent, then they are going to stop expanding and coming here. Education is a critical element of Oklahomas future prosperity.

The Rose State College Center of Workforce Excellence in Aerospace and Cybersecurity established in 2019 represents higher education, career tech, industry partners and communities working together to answer the workforce needs with educational pathways, stackable credentials and training.

Oklahoma has been wonderful to us and this is a way our family can reinvest in the community we love, said Glenna Tanenbaum. This donation will go directly to the classroom, directly to the equipment and resources, to teach the next generation of cybersecurity and aerospace warriors.

The donation ceremony on Thursday, Oct. 28, will be held at 2 p.m. at the Rose State College Student Union.

To learn more about Rose State and the Center of Workforce Excellence in Aerospace and Cybersecurity, visit https://www.trainingatrose.com/cente...ce-excellence/.

###

About Rose State College:
Rose State College is a two-year community college in Midwest City, Oklahoma. Founded in 1970, Rose State now welcomes more than 13,000 students each year. Rose State offers more than 60 different degree programs and among the lowest cost of tuition in the State of Oklahoma.


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