# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Tulsa & Suburbs >  Tesla in Tulsa

## PhiAlpha

Would be pretty cool if OK/Tulsa could pull this off!

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/..._medium=social

----------


## Jake

Bet it'll be Austin and this is just a ploy to get the two cities in a bidding war to get more incentives.

----------


## jonny d

I fail to see the positives in Tulsa getting this, in terms of OKC. It would harm OKC a lot if this happened. It is one thing if OKC had more momentum on other fronts, like DFW does (they could not care less about Austin, given their own momentum). OKC is barely hanging on, so Tulsa getting Tesla would hurt OKC far, far more than OKC could recover from any time soon.

All that said, I think they pick Austin.

----------


## Pete

And it's not clear it's just Tulsa vs. Austin.

There may be more cities involved.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

> I fail to see the positives in Tulsa getting this, in terms of OKC. It would harm OKC a lot if this happened. It is one thing if OKC had more momentum on other fronts, like DFW does (they could not care less about Austin, given their own momentum). OKC is barely hanging on, so Tulsa getting Tesla would hurt OKC far, far more than OKC could recover from any time soon.
> 
> All that said, I think they pick Austin.


Couldn't disagree more. It's not like they would be moving jobs from OKC to Tulsa. A rising tide lifts all boats.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

Let's hope that Elon care more about property than income taxes, and that George kaiser has some extra land to donate. That may do the trick.

Also, would the no income tax even come into play here? I assume it helps greatly with corporate HQ, but when it comes to manufacturing plants do they necessarily make money?

----------


## gopokes88

It would be great for all involved if it was Tulsa. Okc, ok, Tulsa, rural, etc. 

But it’s going to Austin.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Bet it'll be Austin and this is just a ploy to get the two cities in a bidding war to get more incentives.


Austin doesn’t have a port so at least that’s one major advantage to Tulsa

----------


## Edmond Hausfrau

> Also, would the no income tax even come into play here? I assume it helps greatly with corporate HQ, but when it comes to manufacturing plants do they necessarily make money?


It comes into play for the workers, the same way school and education rankings are factored in, because it entices workers.

----------


## BG918

> Let's hope that Elon care more about property than income taxes, and that George kaiser has some extra land to donate. That may do the trick.
> 
> Also, would the no income tax even come into play here? I assume it helps greatly with corporate HQ, but when it comes to manufacturing plants do they necessarily make money?


There is the Navistar bus plant at TIA that the city has publicly been trying to kick out because they haven’t been maintaining the facility.  It has access to the airport and close proximity to the port.  Not saying this is where they would go but it’s a possibility.

And don’t put it past George Kaiser to offer up some land or incentives of their own.  They are committing hundreds of millions of dollars to Tulsa this would fall in their wheelhouse.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

This would be insane. Obviously from bias I would prefer it in OKC but if it came to Tulsa I would be ecstatic!

----------


## HangryHippo

This would be an incredible coup!

----------


## Bunty

A billionaire successfully  dealing with another billionaire for the public good would be unusually cool.   

If it didn't convene Friday, the Oklahoma Legislature should hold off from adjourning in case it's needed to make an incentive deal with Tesla.

----------


## Bunty

> It would be great for all involved if it was Tulsa. Okc, ok, Tulsa, rural, etc. 
> 
> But it’s going to Austin.


I think Austin was in the running before for a Tesla plant, but lost.

----------


## LocoAko

The Dallas World article certainly made it seem like Austin was all but a lock and quoted Musk saying one would be going there regardless.

----------


## gopokes88

> Austin doesn’t have a port so at least that’s one major advantage to Tulsa


Was coming here to say this. Also musk is a funky dude. Austin isn’t funky anymore, it’s pretty much in that stereotype booming city: Nashville Denver Austin. 

Cost of living is very high in Austin. 
Local Austin politics maybe tired of the growth. 

It’s probably Austin but Tulsa does have a few advantages.

----------


## gopokes88

Also George Kaiser. He’s shown he’ll do whatever it takes to better Tulsa. There’s a scenario where he tells Musk I’ll take a $2 billion position in Tesla if you come to Tulsa.

----------


## Laramie

Sounds like the old familiar _"Quality of Life"_ issue that landed United in Indianapolis over Oklahoma City.

Oklahoma Quality Jobs program just may be the tipping point that brings Telsa to Tulsa.  

Good luck, Tulsa...

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Was coming here to say this. Also musk is a funky dude. Austin isn’t funky anymore, it’s pretty much in that stereotype booming city: Nashville Denver Austin. 
> 
> Cost of living is very high in Austin. 
> Local Austin politics maybe tired of the growth. 
> 
> It’s probably Austin but Tulsa does have a few advantages.


Yep, those were my other points to some friends of mine as well. Elon could be the guy that puts Tulsa on the map...he isn’t going to do that for Austin. It would definitely serve his ego better to go to Tulsa.

----------


## BG918

> Yep, those were my other points to some friends of mine as well. Elon could be the guy that puts Tulsa on the map...he isn’t going to do that for Austin. It would definitely serve his ego better to go to Tulsa.


Well according to Rolling Stone Tulsa is the next Austin so Elon would just be getting ahead of the game  :Smile:  https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...-scene-938316/

----------


## gopokes88

> Well according to Rolling Stone Tulsa is the next Austin so Elon would just be getting ahead of the game  https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...-scene-938316/


Which would literally fit his personality. That’s like who he is. 

https://www.oregonlive.com/travel/20...pster_hub.html

----------


## dcsooner

In MY OPINION, Oklahomas poor educational system and even poorer health care system will ALWAYS keep great business from locating in the State. Back Office, call center, distribution yes but Oklahomas failure to improve in the two areas mentioned above keeps the State relegated to 3rd tier status. But people in Oklahoma love the status quo.

----------


## BG918

> In MY OPINION, Oklahomas poor educational system and even poorer health care system will ALWAYS keep great business from locating in the State. Back Office, call center, distribution yes but Oklahomas failure to improve in the two areas mentioned above keeps the State relegated to 3rd tier status. But people in Oklahoma love the status quo.


I agree with you it’s a major detriment.  But look no further than Tennessee to see how major private investments can change a state for the better.  I see Oklahoma as the next Tennessee.

----------


## Ward

Tulsa will soon have a whole lot  of former American Airlines maintenance and repair people unemployed, they will be highly motivated and should be worth considering for a Tesla Assembly Plant.

Tulsa needs the jobs.  I hope they get it.

----------


## gopokes88

> In MY OPINION, Oklahomas poor educational system and even poorer health care system will ALWAYS keep great business from locating in the State. Back Office, call center, distribution yes but Oklahomas failure to improve in the two areas mentioned above keeps the State relegated to 3rd tier status. But people in Oklahoma love the status quo.


I’m just stunned you came here to post this

----------


## PhiAlpha

> I’m just stunned you came here to post this


I’ve never been more stunned by anything in my life...

----------


## OKC Guy

> In MY OPINION, Oklahomas poor educational system and even poorer health care system will ALWAYS keep great business from locating in the State. Back Office, call center, distribution yes but Oklahomas failure to improve in the two areas mentioned above keeps the State relegated to 3rd tier status. But people in Oklahoma love the status quo.


If its so bad why does our population keep growing?  Why no mass exodus?  

I never understand why people rail about OK when its grown nicely.  Those fast growth Texas cities have major growing pains all you hear externally is companies moving in.  Overcrowded schools and roads.  City services struggling to keep up. Lots of problems for those who live there.  

What is this magical ideal growth number?  Can anyone tell me what exact percent of growth is perfect for a city?  I say if a person loves those cities better then move.

----------


## dcsooner

> If its so bad why does our population keep growing?  Why no mass exodus?  
> 
> I never understand why people rail about OK when its grown nicely.  Those fast growth Texas cities have major growing pains all you hear externally is companies moving in.  Overcrowded schools and roads.  City services struggling to keep up. Lots of problems for those who live there.  
> 
> What is this magical ideal growth number?  Can anyone tell me what exact percent of growth is perfect for a city?  I say if a person loves those cities better then move.


Sir, the State of Oklahoma  may well not get to 4M residents in 2020 census. Nevada,  Utah, gaining on the State, Formally peer States like OR, KY CO leaving OK in their wake. Saying prosperity in another State is bad is simply accepting that you cannot compete. Oklahoma CONSISTENTLY ranks in the BOTTOM 1/3 in almost any meaningful economic and educational measure.  You want to DEFEND mediocrity rather than demand improvement from elected officials. OK

----------


## Midtowner

I would be surprised to see Oklahoma ever get another auto plant after what happened with GM back in the 70s. They were promised all kinds of tax incentives if they located here, including not having to pay ad valorem tax. They built their plant and the school district sued. The deal was found to be unconstitutional. They did operate For a few years, but I think that deal tainted future tax incentive offers for large plants.

----------


## OKC Guy

> Sir, the State of Oklahoma  may well not get to 4M residents in 2020 census. Nevada,  Utah, gaining on the State, Formally peer States like OR, KY CO leaving OK in their wake. Saying prosperity in another State is bad is simply accepting that you cannot compete. Oklahoma CONSISTENTLY ranks in the BOTTOM 1/3 in almost any meaningful economic and educational measure.  You want to DEFEND mediocrity rather than demand improvement from elected officials. OK


Again, if its so bad here why are we growing?  

What is this fixation with trying to compete with large states?  All I read here is how everyone hates how we keep building in suburbs and expanding our service needs.  What happens when we grow too fast.  

Look at Paycom its a great homegrown company.  Yet complaints about roads that can’t handle traffic.  Too many apartments being built.  Thats what happens when you grow fast.

Why do a few want all this influx of massive growth?  I say if someone likes bigger cities like Dallas then move.  The rest enjoy our city and can drive to Dallas on weekends and then leave all that hustle bustle behind in Sunday drive back.  

Where does it stop?  3m?  4m? 10m?  Whats the magic number?  Some are never satisfied with what they have.  I say enjoy what we have.  If a company moves in great.  If not great.  Why do we have to keep up with the Jones?  Why can’t we be happy with what we got?  If your quality of life can only be served by living in bigger cities then move.  

I happen to think OKC is a great city and place to live.

----------


## GoGators

> Again, if its so bad here why are we growing?  
> 
> What is this fixation with trying to compete with large states?  All I read here is how everyone hates how we keep building in suburbs and expanding our service needs.  What happens when we grow too fast.  
> 
> *Look at Paycom its a great homegrown company.  Yet complaints about roads that can’t handle traffic.  Too many apartments being built.  Thats what happens when you grow fast.*
> 
> Why do a few want all this influx of massive growth?  I say if someone likes bigger cities like Dallas then move.  The rest enjoy our city and can drive to Dallas on weekends and then leave all that hustle bustle behind in Sunday drive back.  
> 
> Where does it stop?  3m?  4m? 10m?  Whats the magic number?  Some are never satisfied with what they have.  I say enjoy what we have.  If a company moves in great.  If not great.  Why do we have to keep up with the Jones?  Why can’t we be happy with what we got?  If your quality of life can only be served by living in bigger cities then move.  
> ...


That’s not what happens when you grow to fast, that’s what happens when a company chooses a stupid spot to build an office complex.

----------


## jdizzle

> Again, if its so bad here why are we growing?  
> 
> What is this fixation with trying to compete with large states?  All I read here is how everyone hates how we keep building in suburbs and expanding our service needs.  What happens when we grow too fast.  
> 
> Look at Paycom its a great homegrown company.  Yet complaints about roads that can’t handle traffic.  Too many apartments being built.  Thats what happens when you grow fast.
> 
> Why do a few want all this influx of massive growth?  I say if someone likes bigger cities like Dallas then move.  The rest enjoy our city and can drive to Dallas on weekends and then leave all that hustle bustle behind in Sunday drive back.  
> 
> Where does it stop?  3m?  4m? 10m?  Whats the magic number?  Some are never satisfied with what they have.  I say enjoy what we have.  If a company moves in great.  If not great.  Why do we have to keep up with the Jones?  Why can’t we be happy with what we got?  If your quality of life can only be served by living in bigger cities then move.  
> ...


Not sure if serious. What do they say about idle hands? I feel like that applies to complacency (see 23rd street and our garbage financial state).

----------


## OKC Guy

> That’s not what happens when you grow to fast, that’s what happens when a company chooses a stupid spot to build an office complex.


So now you get to decide where a company gets to build.  I sense a trend.  Only a few select citizens get to decide who moves in and where they can operate.  They built in a wide open spot.  Thats what growth does.  They outgrew old location.  Its a never ending cycle look at Dallas metro for proof.  

Look, I’d love to have Tesla.  Either here or Tulsa.  But if they choose Texas its not an indictment about OK.  Many factors go into decisions.  It might be that its unrelated to the actual city in regards to quality of life.  It could be that Texas is truck capital of world and new plant builds trucks and wants to capture that market.  Building in Texas captures more of those truck owners who can say its built in their state.  Its not saying OK is bad.  

I am not one needing to worry about who carries a bigger stick.  Population does nothing for me.  I like my quality of life here.  I’d rather we focus on existing citizens than worry about getting new ones.  Our MAPS projects have been hugely positive (except one imo) and I take pride in new park and CC and OMNI.  I take pride we can support our NBA team.  I love we can drive anywhere in metro in 20 minutes or so whereas Dallas you have to plan all your drives around traffic.  

Getting or not getting Tesla would not change my life.  Its not gloom and doom if they choose Texas.

----------


## mugofbeer

> Getting or not getting Tesla would not change my life.  Its not gloom and doom if they choose Texas.


Unfortunately, there are certain posters on here that are gloom and doom, no maater what.  Everyone goes through times they are unhappy about something, but with some, virtually everything posted runs from negative connotation to crticism of something or someone, to just outright negativity - even if the point is valid - it starts to point to a real problem.

One poster here, just seems to go from thread to thread posting the same negativity if he feel it applies.  Whether the thread is a good news thing or a potential massive positive, here comes Mr. Gloom and Doom to throw mud on it all.  It's gone on for years and the mud is always the same.

Really, making a valid point once or twice is fine.  When the posts all become virtual copies and pastes over and over and over again, the person really needs to step back and examine themselves a bit.  CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is great but chronic negativity is damaging and tiring , especially when the message is always the same.

----------


## OKC Guy

> Unfortunately, there are certain posters on here that are gloom and doom, no maater what.  Everyone goes through times they are unhappy about something, but with some, virtually everything posted runs from negative connotation to crticism of something or someone, to just outright negativity - even if the point is valid - it starts to point to a real problem.
> 
> One poster here, just seems to go from thread to thread posting the same negativity if he feel it applies.  Whether the thread is a good news thing or a potential massive positive, here comes Mr. Gloom and Doom to throw mud on it all.  It's gone on for years and the mud is always the same.
> 
> Really, making a valid point once or twice is fine.  When the posts all become virtual copies and pastes over and over and over again, the person really needs to step back and examine themselves a bit.  CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is great but chronic negativity is damaging and tiring , especially when the message is always the same.


Yup.  We got Costco call center and I even seen some complaints in that thread.  We will never be the utopia some have planned out in their head.  I choose to enjoy what we do have.  Am proud to say I live in OKC

----------


## dcsooner

> Again, if its so bad here why are we growing?  
> 
> What is this fixation with trying to compete with large states?  All I read here is how everyone hates how we keep building in suburbs and expanding our service needs.  What happens when we grow too fast.  
> 
> Look at Paycom its a great homegrown company.  Yet complaints about roads that can’t handle traffic.  Too many apartments being built.  Thats what happens when you grow fast.
> 
> Why do a few want all this influx of massive growth?  I say if someone likes bigger cities like Dallas then move.  The rest enjoy our city and can drive to Dallas on weekends and then leave all that hustle bustle behind in Sunday drive back.  
> 
> Where does it stop?  3m?  4m? 10m?  Whats the magic number?  Some are never satisfied with what they have.  I say enjoy what we have.  If a company moves in great.  If not great.  Why do we have to keep up with the Jones?  Why can’t we be happy with what we got?  If your quality of life can only be served by living in bigger cities then move.  
> ...


You did not dispute my facts about Oklahoma’s poor educational and health outcomes. Are you Ok with Oklahoma being overall a poor , undereducated and unhealthy State? If so, good for you.

----------


## Bunty

> In MY OPINION, Oklahomas poor educational system and even poorer health care system will ALWAYS keep great business from locating in the State. Back Office, call center, distribution yes but Oklahomas failure to improve in the two areas mentioned above keeps the State relegated to 3rd tier status. But people in Oklahoma love the status quo.


Life is how you make it.  Too many Oklahomans indulge in bad health habits, such as smoking, lack of exercise, overeating and drinking, leading to less than good health.  I don't see why newcomers considering coming to Oklahoma should be concerned about the state's poor health statistics, if they're already disciplined to practicing good health habits.  However, I suppose employers might wonder if they will get more sick calls.

Much of Oklahoma is on its way out,  not growing.  I suspect rural counties drag Oklahoma down a lot.  The constant decline there can't reflect well in the quality of life statistics.   Education can't be will supported and maintained, due to declining property values and people moving out.  Some counties have very little in the way of medical care.  Some of the rural legislators think of ways to discourage Oklahoma from  advancing, in other words, keeping the status quo.  Fortunately, their bills are not always successful.

Once again, plains states, like Kansas and Nebraska support education better than Oklahoma with a higher quality of life, all have Right to Work, yet don't attract  major industry, either.   At least Tesla isn't looking at Kansas or Nebraska.  I wonder how important it is to Musk for his assembly plant to be close to an airport with non stop international destinations.

Best States to live in ranked by Wallet Hub:
Oklahoma:  42
Kansas:  30
Nebraska:  19

Best States to live in ranked by U. S. News & World Report:
Oklahoma:  43
Kansas:  22
Nebraska:  9

----------


## Eric

It's hard to measure, but I have always wondered if it is truly an issue with the level of service (health & education) or more a matter of lack of interest in utilization of those services.

----------


## OKC Guy

> You did not dispute my facts about Oklahoma’s poor educational and health outcomes. Are you Ok with Oklahoma being overall a poor , undereducated and unhealthy State? If so, good for you.


No, you tried to tie that to why Tesla would never pick us

----------


## dcsooner

Yep, I did.  Might happen, hope it happens, but I challenge anyone to bet the house on it, I wouldn’t. Hope I’m wrong

----------


## Ronnie Jackson

> Yep, I did.  Might happen, hope it happens, but I challenge anyone to bet the house on it, I wouldnt. Hope Im wrong


Im wondering why you hate Oklahoma so much? Its actually pretty nice, especially the better parts of OKC.

----------


## progressiveboy

As much as I like Oklahoma, I had to move away out of State due to dismal, economic lack of good paying jobs. I would love for Oklahoma to win this economic coup, however I strongly believe Austin will be the city that wins! DC Sooner has a lot of valid points about Oklahoma.

----------


## GoGators

> So now you get to decide where a company gets to build.  I sense a trend.  Only a few select citizens get to decide who moves in and where they can operate.  They built in a wide open spot.  Thats what growth does.  They outgrew old location.  Its a never ending cycle look at Dallas metro for proof.  
> 
> Look, I’d love to have Tesla.  Either here or Tulsa.  But if they choose Texas its not an indictment about OK.  Many factors go into decisions.  It might be that its unrelated to the actual city in regards to quality of life.  It could be that Texas is truck capital of world and new plant builds trucks and wants to capture that market.  Building in Texas captures more of those truck owners who can say its built in their state.  Its not saying OK is bad.  
> 
> I am not one needing to worry about who carries a bigger stick.  Population does nothing for me.  I like my quality of life here.  I’d rather we focus on existing citizens than worry about getting new ones.  Our MAPS projects have been hugely positive (except one imo) and I take pride in new park and CC and OMNI.  I take pride we can support our NBA team.  I love we can drive anywhere in metro in 20 minutes or so whereas Dallas you have to plan all your drives around traffic.  
> 
> Getting or not getting Tesla would not change my life.  Its not gloom and doom if they choose Texas.


lol no I don’t decide where companies build. But I do get a say when they beg for millions of our tax dollars to mitigate their poor decision.

----------


## OKC Guy

> You did not dispute my facts about Oklahoma’s poor educational and health outcomes. Are you Ok with Oklahoma being overall a poor , undereducated and unhealthy State? If so, good for you.


So adding more people fixes these problems?  Or would it be better to work harder fixing problems without more burdened citizens?

----------


## Dustin

Our state needs this. Hope we get it.

----------


## dcsooner

> So adding more people fixes these problems?  Or would it be better to work harder fixing problems without more burdened citizens?


Sir,
  I do not know what you are talking about. My initial comments referred to Education and Health as reasons large Companies *may hesitate* to locate (plants, corporate offices, R&D facilities etc) in the State. These types of large corporations tend to locate in places where education, health care and quality of life are ranked  high. I just have always wondered WHY the leadership of the State knowing this fails to aggressively address these deficiencies by placing emphasis on these areas rather than guns and other agendas that do not promote quality of life unless you think being able to walk around with a pistol on your hip or M-16 on your shoulder like creates jobs. and WHY whatever your politics,  people continue to VOTE  blindly for one party or the other when that party fails to address the systemic issues that keep the citizens of State poor, uneductated, and economically lacking *relative to other States.* 

My comment had *nothing* to do with population, (yours did).  Go back and look.

----------


## mugofbeer

> As much as I like Oklahoma, I had to move away out of State due to dismal, economic lack of good paying jobs. I would love for Oklahoma to win this economic coup, however I strongly believe Austin will be the city that wins! DC Sooner has a lot of valid points about Oklahoma.


I think it's not disputed he does - what's being criticized, at least by me, is his seemingly desperate need to repeat the same points, on multiple threads, over, and over and over again.  The post in question here is a virtual copy and paste of multiple other posts he has made.

There comes a point where it can be said, OK dc, we`ve got it.  Now come up with a resolution, come up with alternatives or be quiet and get out of the way.

----------


## OKC Guy

> Sir,
>   I do not know what you are talking about. My initial comments referred to Education and Health as reasons large Companies *may hesitate* to locate (plants, corporate offices, R&D facilities etc) in the State. These types of large corporations tend to locate in places where education, health care and quality of life are ranked  high. I just have always wondered WHY the leadership of the State knowing this fails to aggressively address these deficiencies by placing emphasis on these areas rather than guns and other agendas that do not promote quality of life unless you think being able to walk around with a pistol on your hip or M-16 on your shoulder like creates jobs. and WHY whatever your politics,  people continue to VOTE  blindly for one party or the other when that party fails to address the systemic issues that keep the citizens of State poor, uneductated, and economically lacking *relative to other States.* 
> 
> My comment had *nothing* to do with population, (yours did).  Go back and look.


What does guns have to do with education?  

And the theme of your post is to get more “better” companies to move here.  Why does it matter who moves here?  If we are growing (population) it must mean quality of life is still good.  

Your post was just another in a long line of OK bashing, inferring we have a bad quality of life.  And my retort is if its so bad go to these other states and enjoy this better quality of life.

----------


## dcsooner

> What does guns have to do with education?  
> 
> And the theme of your post is to get more “better” companies to move here.  Why does it matter who moves here?  If we are growing (population) it must mean quality of life is still good.  
> 
> Your post was just another in a long line of OK bashing, inferring we have a bad quality of life.  And my retort is if its so bad go to these other states and enjoy this better quality of life.


Ok Guy, without being disrespectful, I will say your response lacks *for me*  even a modicum of reasonable argument, but Ok

----------


## Dustin

This factory would be larger than the one in California, and it employs more than 10,000 people... 

That's NUTS

----------


## Bunty

> This factory would be larger than the one in California, and it employs more than 10,000 people... 
> 
> That's NUTS


Maybe Musk thinks that high number is nuts, too.   I wonder if thanks to advances in automation 10,000+  workers could be reduced to 5000 workers in 10 years.

----------


## mugofbeer

Friggin' Austin is the last place it should go.  Sure, if you want to commute 90 minutes to work on overcrowded streets and highways, pay 5x the property taxes and 2x the housing costs of Tulsa. , then just make "the rich, richer" down there.  Let Musk build his house and become a citizen of Austin, but let the factory come to Oklahoma!    :Smile:

----------


## PhiAlpha

> This factory would be larger than the one in California, and it employs more than 10,000 people... 
> 
> That's NUTS


And we have a huge workforce of laid off oil and gas service workers that would be a perfect fit for some of these roles. Our economy could really use something like this.

----------


## BG918

> And we have a huge workforce of laid off oil and gas service workers that would be a perfect fit for some of these roles. Our economy could really use something like this.


Not to mention plenty of engineers and mechanics who could lose their jobs.  AA hasn’t had any layoffs at the Mx base yet (that we know of) but who knows as the airline industry is ravaged.  Per this article AA is still moving forward with a $550M investment in the base.  https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/e...6ff193af0.html

----------


## HangryHippo

BG, thats really good news. I wondered if they would call that off due to Covid.

----------


## gopokes88

Catch is the expert here but I imagine maintenance bases have the 30 year view in mind not 3

----------


## roci28

Out of curiosity, what makes Tulsa more appealing than the OKC metro for Musk?  It will be great for the state if Tulsa gets this, but I'd prefer it to go in OKC  :Smile:

----------


## ChrisHayes

> Out of curiosity, what makes Tulsa more appealing than the OKC metro for Musk?  It will be great for the state if Tulsa gets this, but I'd prefer it to go in OKC


I can think of some areas for it to go around OKC. I'm betting they're eyeing mid-America industrial park though. There's a LOT Of land available for expansion there, and it could be a huge hub for IT and manufacturing in the state. I wish we had something like that in OKC. Even half the size.

----------


## gopokes88

> Out of curiosity, what makes Tulsa more appealing than the OKC metro for Musk?  It will be great for the state if Tulsa gets this, but I'd prefer it to go in OKC


-The port gives access to the Mississippi therefore the upper Midwest. Also the east coast via the Gulf. 
-Tulsa has a unique culture. It’s this mix of old f you money, a great under-appreciated music scene, architecture, arts, and has a real sense of community fabric. 
-Gathering place. 
-Scenic

I don’t think it’s OKC vs Tulsa. 

It’s more likely Musk thought well obviously Austin is in the mix where else, and Tulsa came up.

----------


## Midtowner

Tulsa would probably attract Tesla because of its abundance of clean hydroelectric energy.

----------


## BG918

> Out of curiosity, what makes Tulsa more appealing than the OKC metro for Musk?  It will be great for the state if Tulsa gets this, but I'd prefer it to go in OKC


Tulsa has a larger manufacturing sector, and between TCC, Tulsa Tech and TWS there is a very skilled workforce in NE Oklahoma.  A lot of it goes back to the oil capitol days when rigs, pipe and other industry components were built in Tulsa.  Also the aerospace industry is obviously one of the bigger sectors and in addition to AA there is Spirit, Lufthansa Technik, NORDAM, Triumph and many others.

----------


## catch22

> Not to mention plenty of engineers and mechanics who could lose their jobs.  AA hasn’t had any layoffs at the Mx base yet (that we know of) but who knows as the airline industry is ravaged.  Per this article AA is still moving forward with a $550M investment in the base.  https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/e...6ff193af0.html


Maintenance is about the only workgroup not being negatively affected by COVID related reductions. Even in storage, airplanes require maintenance and upkeep. All of our (United) airplanes in active storage in Denver (i.e. parked but not inactive) are being completely powered up and engine runs performed every 3-5 days. They aren't being taxied around, so it also requires periodical lifting of the airplane to rotate the tires so they don't form dead spots from sitting stationary too long. Calendar-based maintenance and checks are still being performed as if the airplane is in active service. (i.e. "every 200 flight hours or 30 calendar days, whichever comes first" - type stuff) The goal is to keep a large percentage of the fleet ready to deploy should demand rebound quicker than expected. I haven't heard of any layoffs in TUL at AA, but I am not as familiar with them

I believe the mechanics are the only workgroup allowed overtime at the moment. I imagine AA's base is similarly active.

----------


## Bunty

According to this it's already decided it's Austin:  https://electrek.co/2020/05/15/tesla...-austin-texas/

----------


## BG918

> -The port gives access to the Mississippi therefore the upper Midwest. Also the east coast via the Gulf. 
> -Tulsa has a unique culture. It’s this mix of old f you money, a great under-appreciated music scene, architecture, arts, and has a real sense of community fabric. 
> -Gathering place. 
> -Scenic
> 
> I don’t think it’s OKC vs Tulsa. 
> 
> It’s more likely Musk thought well obviously Austin is in the mix where else, and Tulsa came up.


I honestly think the bus plant has something to do with this.  About 2 weeks ago it came out that the City of Tulsa and Navistar were at an impasse; CoT said Navistar was not holding up its end of the bargain maintaining the facility they lease from the city for $1/year - Navistar saying CoT is being unreasonable with their demands.  

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news...over-bus-plant

All of sudden Tesla just announces out of the blue that Tulsa is a finalist for the plant “after visiting 2 sites” in Tulsa.  This is just purely speculation but the fact that Tesla could move into an existing auto manufacturing facility basically right away in the center of the country next to a rail line, runways and highways (no new infrastructure needed) and within 5 miles of a river port in a metropolitan area of 1M people with a highly skilled manufacturing workforce and potentially getting 1 million square feet of factory for $1/year likely piqued their interest...

----------


## Bunty

> I honestly think the bus plant has something to do with this.  About 2 weeks ago it came out that the City of Tulsa and Navistar were at an impasse; CoT said Navistar was not holding up its end of the bargain maintaining the facility they lease from the city for $1/year - Navistar saying CoT is being unreasonable with their demands.  
> 
> https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news...over-bus-plant
> 
> All of sudden Tesla just announces out of the blue that Tulsa is a finalist for the plant “after visiting 2 sites” in Tulsa.  This is just purely speculation but the fact that Tesla could move into an existing auto manufacturing facility basically right away in the center of the country next to a rail line, runways and highways (no new infrastructure needed) and within 5 miles of a river port in a metropolitan area of 1M people with a highly skilled manufacturing workforce and potentially getting 1 million square feet of factory for $1/year likely piqued their interest...


Interesting speculation but the Tesla plant in Fremont, CA is 5.3 million square feet.

----------


## BG918

> Interesting speculation but the Tesla plant in Fremont, CA is 5.3 million square feet.


The entire city-owned facility (the former Air Force Plant #3) is 3.8 million square feet; Spirit Aerosystems is the other tenant.  The entire site covers 642 acres nearly double the size of the Tesla factory site in Fremont.

----------


## OKC Guy

I think Tesla wants to build their own plant is my guess.

----------


## AP

How would it help the city to replace those manufacturing jobs with Tesla jobs? Surely the goal is to retain the bus jobs and find a new space for Tesla.

----------


## OkiePoke

Tesla has mentioned they want cars rolling off the line by end of the year. I have no idea how that is possible.

----------


## gopokes88

> How would it help the city to replace those manufacturing jobs with Tesla jobs? Surely the goal is to retain the bus jobs and find a new space for Tesla.


The status symbol of having Tesla would be a net benefit, but yeah

----------


## BG918

> The status symbol of having Tesla would be a net benefit, but yeah


Agree but if its Navistar buses vs Tesla electric trucks I think you know which one the city would want more.  The Navistar plant does have 1600 employees so one of the larger manufacturing employers in Tulsa that not many really know about.  Odds are if youve been in a school bus in the past 20 years it was built in Tulsa.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Tesla has mentioned they want cars rolling off the line by end of the year. I have no idea how that is possible.


The dude is about to launch people into space from the US for the first time in over a decade and is working on missions to Mars. End of the year seems pretty implausible but it certainly wouldn’t be the most ambitious goal he’s shooting for haha.

----------


## king183

In my experience working with companies similar to Tesla and knowing how we announced expansions to new cities, the site was already decided well in advance before anything--even speculation-- got to the media and negotiations were already well under way with the chosen city's leadership, who were required to stay very tight lipped. Based on how Stitt and Mayor Bynum are reacting to the speculation Tulsa is on the list, this leads me to believe there are no ongoing negotiations and Tulsa is likely out of the running at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if Austin was chosen weeks ago and negotiations are well under way, but Tulsa was reported because it became known that it was at one time under consideration/Telsa was conducting due diligence.

----------


## Tulsan

> In my experience working with companies similar to Tesla and knowing how we announced expansions to new cities, the site was already decided well in advance before anything--even speculation-- got to the media and negotiations were already well under way with the chosen city's leadership, who were required to stay very tight lipped. Based on how Stitt and Mayor Bynum are reacting to the speculation Tulsa is on the list, this leads me to believe there are no ongoing negotiations and Tulsa is likely out of the running at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if Austin was chosen weeks ago and negotiations are well under way, but Tulsa was reported because it became known that it was at one time under consideration/Telsa was conducting due diligence.


This is not correct.  Negotiations are ongoing.

----------


## aDark

> This is not correct.  Negotiations are ongoing.


Ummm... an account named "Tulsan" is less than 6 months old and makes their first post ever hoping to convince users that Tulsa has a shot for landing the Tesla factory.

Elon, is this you? If so please pay off my student loans!!

----------


## king183

> This is not correct.  Negotiations are ongoing.


That's great, if true. I'm just saying in my experience, the public reaction of the mayor and the governor indicate negotiations are either not in an advanced stage or they aren't serious. 

Obviously, I hope I'm wrong on this.

----------


## shavethewhales

> In my experience working with companies similar to Tesla and knowing how we announced expansions to new cities, the site was already decided well in advance before anything--even speculation-- got to the media and negotiations were already well under way with the chosen city's leadership, who were required to stay very tight lipped. Based on how Stitt and Mayor Bynum are reacting to the speculation Tulsa is on the list, this leads me to believe there are no ongoing negotiations and Tulsa is likely out of the running at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if Austin was chosen weeks ago and negotiations are well under way, but Tulsa was reported because it became known that it was at one time under consideration/Telsa was conducting due diligence.


I agree. I wanted to believe that we had a chance, but all the rumors point to them having already decided on a piece of land just outside of Hutto, TX (far north end of the Austin metro). 

The fact that Tulsa has been included in discussions is a nice ego boost for us though, and hopefully it shows that we have elevated our status enough to be considered for other major businesses looking for new locations as well. Maybe down the road even Tesla will come knocking again for some kind of facility. Apparently they did get shown around to a couple of sites, so they were interested enough to come out and look.

----------


## Pete

You can be sure by the time anything hits the media, these big deals have long been in progress with local municipalities and states because huge determining factors are public incentives, infrastructure improvements and real estate deals.

I've been following this sort of thing for decades and in all incidences, sites have been placed under contract and deals with the government are 99% done.  Then, they use the threat of going elsewhere as a bargaining chip to get what they want where they've already decided they want to be.

For example, this proposed OKC Costo operations center has been in the works for at least a year and they have been negotiating with a specific property owner since the beginning.  And when they had already placed the Western/Memorial site under contract, they were telling the city they would go to Edmond if they didn't get specific incentives.  Amazon does this better than anyone.


I have no insight into this Tesla project, but you can almost guarantee the big decisions have been made and now they are merely playing cities and states against each other in order to get the best possible deal.

----------


## Bunty

> In my experience working with companies similar to Tesla and knowing how we announced expansions to new cities, the site was already decided well in advance before anything--even speculation-- got to the media and negotiations were already well under way with the chosen city's leadership, who were required to stay very tight lipped. Based on how Stitt and Mayor Bynum are reacting to the speculation Tulsa is on the list, this leads me to believe there are no ongoing negotiations and Tulsa is likely out of the running at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if Austin was chosen weeks ago and negotiations are well under way, but Tulsa was reported because it became known that it was at one time under consideration/Telsa was conducting due diligence.


In your experience, do you ever find out why a city in the running was not selected?

----------


## king183

> In your experience, do you ever find out why a city in the running was not selected?


We would never release anything publicly about why a city wasn’t chosen, but we would call the mayor and let them know at a high level. We would only get into certain specifics if they asked, but for the most part we kept our reasoning to ourselves.

In one example, we were choosing Dallas over Ft. Worth. The decision had been made long before we informed them, but as Pete alluded to, we needed to do a few more negotiations and discussions with Dallas city leaders. Once that was completed, we called Ft. Worth and just explained that we chose Dallas but would love to work with them in the future on something—and that’s it. A couple of the reasons, among many, which we didn’t tell them, was a more educated populous (and thus access to resources we wanted) and Dallas would make a bigger “splash” for the brand. Dallas’s city leaders/governance infrastructure was almost more mature and had been through the types of things we were going to be doing, so we anticipated fewer barriers working with them to get things like permits.

----------


## Pete

A few years ago, OKC was a finalist for a Macy's distribution center but they had already pretty much decided on Owasso simply due to better public incentives.

----------


## PhiAlpha

I know Tulsa just submitted their final package to Tesla last night so I guess we will know relatively soon.

----------


## corwin1968

> Tesla has mentioned they want cars rolling off the line by end of the year. I have no idea how that is possible.


I was reading about Space X's "Starlink" last night and they are cranking out six satellites PER DAY.   And launching them 60 at a time. 

The man knows how to get things done.

----------


## Laramie

Found this by a poster on the Tulsa Now forum:

https://www.austinsaysno.com/

----------


## gopokes88

> Found this by a poster on the Tulsa Now forum:
> 
> https://www.austinsaysno.com/


"“Austin Does SUCK! On Man! Where do I start??!!! I have been here going on 8 years and I have SEEN so many changes. Very pretentious!!! Like a little LA (it has been dubbed.) I am middle aged and this is not for people in my age group. Plus, almost ALL of the Iconic Austin Haunts (that made Austin...Austin) are going away.”

— Kimberly, 10/27/2019

The lack of self awareness by Kimberly here is *chefs kiss*

----------


## king183

> "“Austin Does SUCK! On Man! Where do I start??!!! I have been here going on 8 years and I have SEEN so many changes. Very pretentious!!! Like a little LA (it has been dubbed.) I am middle aged and this is not for people in my age group. Plus, almost ALL of the Iconic Austin Haunts (that made Austin...Austin) are going away.”
> 
> — Kimberly, 10/27/2019
> 
> The lack of self awareness by Kimberly here is *chefs kiss*


I think more Kimberlys need to speak up. They have a very valuable POV and it must be heard loud and clear.

----------


## Dustin

So apparently they painted the tesla logo on the Tulsa Driller. A bit ironic, eh?

----------


## jerrywall

> So apparently they painted the tesla logo on the Tulsa Driller. A bit ironic, eh?


And they painted the face as well.

----------


## SEMIweather

> So apparently they painted the tesla logo on the Tulsa Driller. A bit ironic, eh?


this is so embarrassing

----------


## BG918

SpaceX has a facility outside McGregor, TX which is about an hour from Austin.  Not sure if that plays any role but likely doesn’t hurt that they already have a presence in Texas.  Honestly with Tulsa’s aerospace workforce SpaceX would probably be a better future fit if Tesla indeed sets up shop outside Austin.

----------


## Ronnie Jackson

> this is so embarrassing


The whole situation is embarrassing. I get that both Cities need to diversify economically, but groveling at the feet of folks like Elon Musk just feels disgusting.

----------


## BG918

Reminds me of the Amazon HQ2 sweepstakes when it all likelihood they had already chosen NYC and Arlington (now just Arlington).  Some think this type of recruitment with limited public funds _within the same country_ should end and be replaced more with a national strategy instead of state vs state 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...llegal/575539/

----------


## Pete

> Reminds me of the Amazon HQ2 sweepstakes when it all likelihood they had already chosen NYC and Arlington (now just Arlington).  Some think this type of recruitment with limited public funds _within the same country_ should end and be replaced more with a national strategy instead of state vs state 
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...llegal/575539/


Or city by city, which happens just as often.

It allows businesses to hold cities and states hostage.  It's pretty messed up and results in trillions in tax dollars being spent to subsidize private industry.

----------


## dankrutka

> The whole situation is embarrassing. I get that both Cities need to diversify economically, but groveling at the feet of folks like Elon Musk just feels disgusting.


I hope Tulsans have some signs that read, "Come to Tulsa! We think X  A-12 is a great name!" lol 

ICYMI: X  A-12 is the name of Elon's son, but I don't think it was allowed.

----------


## gopokes88

I kinda like it

----------


## Eric

I will give this to Tulsan's, there is nothing they think they can't do. Islands in the river. No prob. Olympics. Sure. Amazon HQ2. Why not.

Honestly, I hope for it, I just don't think a company run by this guy is coming to Oklahoma. Perceptions are what they are. the best chance OK has of getting a major national player, is probably already here (a smaller growing company).

----------


## Eric

The above post may seem harsh. Didn't mean it to be. I think Tulsa is a wonderful place to live and raise a family, and has a ton going for it. I just kind of get a kick out of how "proud" (I guess that's a good description) some people are of it. It's an interesting dynamic. You just don't hear the same moon shot type ideas from our friends down the pike. Again, neither stance is good or bad in my opinion, just an interesting observation.  I sure as heck don't want to start an OKC vs Tulsa thread.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

^^^ I salute tulsa for that. Tulsa packs it punch against other cities it’s tier. The same can’t be said for OKC even though OKC is clearly the most dominant and sought after metro in the state. The two cities should be closer and the two mayors have agreed on that from what I’ve seen.

I hope, Enid, Elk City, Stillwater, Lawton,, and Ardmore play a bigger picture in growth soon.

----------


## Bunty

In some article I read, it said that Tesla had notified Nashville that it was no longer consideration.  So nice to know that Tesla thinks Oklahoma would be a better for them than Tennessee.

----------


## gopokes88

There’s literally no downside for okc if Tesla goes to Tulsa.

----------


## 5alive

^^^Actually there should be upside

----------


## jdizzle

> Theres literally no downside for okc if Tesla goes to Tulsa.


How do schools get their funding? Isn't it somewhat based off where property tax dollars go? If so, the Tulsa schools will get a huge boon from this, hurting OKC schools even more. There is one. OKC has no projects or prospects like this in the pike to help balance out something like this...

----------


## Pete

> How do schools get their funding? Isn't it somewhat based off where property tax dollars go? If so, the Tulsa schools will get a huge boon from this, hurting OKC schools even more. There is one. OKC has no projects or prospects like this in the pike to help balance out something like this...


You can almost be guaranteed that Tesla will get tons of public incentives that would result in them not paying property tax.

----------


## jdizzle

> You can almost be guaranteed that Tesla will get tons of public incentives that would result in them not paying property tax.


And I am sure the city of Tulsa will work with the state to benefit greater than the rest of the state for having Tesla there.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> How do schools get their funding? Isn't it somewhat based off where property tax dollars go? If so, the Tulsa schools will get a huge boon from this, hurting OKC schools even more. There is one. OKC has no projects or prospects like this in the pike to help balance out something like this...


How would Tulsa’s schools getting more money from a new revenue source have any effect whatsoever on OKC’s schools?

----------


## jdizzle

> How would Tulsa’s schools getting more money from a new revenue source have any effect whatsoever on OKC’s schools?


I was merely adding how Tulsa could get ahead of OKC through this.

----------


## Laramie

> I was merely adding how Tulsa could get ahead of OKC through this.


Telsa will be a great addition to Tulsa and the State.  It's not going to put Tulsa ahead of OKC.  Tulsa's population could use the extras boost; right now OKC is the center of the state's growth.  OKC has 400,000 more in the metro and 250,000 more people in the urban area.

As to its impact on OKC, I just don't see what you're seeing other than we've lured something big to our area.  Hope you get Telsa, because it's no fund being a bridesmaid who lost her virginity to Telsa and didn't get anything for it.  

*If a city is going to be a whore, at least get paid for being laid. *

----------


## Swake

> How would Tulsa’s schools getting more money from a new revenue source have any effect whatsoever on OKC’s schools?


It's actually the inverse, if Tulsa Schools got more money from property taxes from Tesla, due to state funding balancing it would lower the amount going to Tulsa schools from the state and freeing state allocated money for other districts.

----------


## Eric

> How do schools get their funding? Isn't it somewhat based off where property tax dollars go? If so, the Tulsa schools will get a huge boon from this, hurting OKC schools even more. There is one. OKC has no projects or prospects like this in the pike to help balance out something like this...


It used to work that way. Can't remember when it changed. But now the state has a "forumula" per student. So all school funding goes to the state, and then is distributed to the districts based on ADA (average daily attendance). Economic development helps all schools. Obviously economic development helps other things too, and more localized.

----------


## Swake

> It used to work that way. Can't remember when it changed. But now the state has a "forumula" per student. So all school funding goes to the state, and then is distributed to the districts based on ADA (average daily attendance). Economic development helps all schools. Obviously economic development helps other things too, and more localized.


No, wrong.

Property taxes are held in the district. The state formula is only used for state funding that goes on top of property taxes. Not all districts even get state funding if they have enough property taxes. 

https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/c...b346bd83e.html

----------


## gopokes88

Everyone realizes a city being better than another city is 1000% subjective right? 

Like based on sports alone OKC >>>> Tulsa. 

Its purely subjective and based on what matters to you.

----------


## catch22

> Everyone realizes a city being better than another city is 1000% subjective right? 
> 
> Like based on sports alone OKC >>>> Tulsa. 
> 
> Its purely subjective and based on what matters to you.


Exactly. There are many different metrics one could compare. Tulsa is better than OKC in a lot of ways, and OKC is better than Tulsa in a lot of ways. It's silly to be in a pissing match all the time. A rising tide lifts all boats. Tulsa growth won't stunt OKC's growth. Imagine if Oklahoma had two OKCs instead of one.

----------


## Cocaine

I don't see how Tulsa getting a Tesla factory could be bad for OKC. If they don't get it then it will go to Austin (most likely to happen). If they do get Oklahoma is known for a Tesla Factory as well as The Thunder, Bombings, and Football. Why does it matter to OKC if Tulsa prospers we should be happy for them. Hell it would be great if Tesla sponsored the Thunder and MLS Team moved to Tulsa and was sponsored by Tesla. It's more money for the state and more jobs.

----------


## Anonymous.

[dream]
Tesla builds in OKC or Tulsa, Tesla sponsors Thunder for the electric/lightning theme. The oil and gas industry here rebranded as being "energy" for the last decade. So why not?

Oil, Gas, Wind, Electric.

The energy capital of the country. Oklahoma.

[/dream]

----------


## Eric

> No, wrong.
> 
> Property taxes are held in the district. The state formula is only used for state funding that goes on top of property taxes. Not all districts even get state funding if they have enough property taxes. 
> 
> https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/c...b346bd83e.html


My mistake, you are correct. But even in Tulsa county, these funds only amount to about 25% of the district's budget. The state will use funds to "equalize" the districts. 37% of TPS budget came from the state. If property taxes went up, the state would just cut it's funding amounts to the district (assuming all other factors were held constant...which is never reality).

Now, I grew up near Frontier School District, in which the Sooner Power Plant was located. They are a tiny school, one of the last to still have dirt floors (allegedly) and then went to first class facilities almost overnight, entirely due to that plant. Things changed in the 90s. That plant is still there, but I presume that the district/county/whatever must send "excess" funds to the state, because their budget was cut dramatically upon passage of HB 1005. Is that how this works? Districts with excess budgets essentially send their tax dollars to other districts?

----------


## Swake

> Things changed in the 90s. That plant is still there, but I presume that the district/county/whatever must send "excess" funds to the state, because their budget was cut dramatically upon passage of HB 1005. Is that how this works? Districts with excess budgets essentially send their tax dollars to other districts?


Read the article, no, that's not how it works.

----------


## king183

Tesla’s Terafactory location now appears with a Texas address in the company’s in-car navigation, fueling deeper speculation that the future location for its next US manufacturing plant will be near the city of Austin.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tera...ps-navigation/

----------


## Dob Hooligan

> Read the article, no, that's not how it works.


I read the editorial you linked to. I understand it to say only 14,000 students in the state of Oklahoma were outside of the equalization model in 2019? I don't see how a Tesla plant in Tulsa will disrupt the statewide student funding formula in any way.

----------


## Laramie

Tulsa IMO has a very good chance of securing the Telsa Plant.

If Telsa were going to Texas, you bet they would have already selected Austin.   Texas isn't going to give any more incentives to lure Telsa and they know it.  They are playing this game to see what they can get from Oklahoma.  They know Oklahoma's track record on tax incentives thru the old Oklahoma City GM plant debacle.

If we were to get this plant; it will be great for all of Oklahoma particularly the Tulsa, Muskogee and Bartlesville (Northeast Quadrant) would reap the benefits of employment and support from this huge mega plant.


Let's not forget; Tulsa is on a barge canal transportation system Ports of Catoosa/Muskogee, an extra alternative that Austin doesn't have.

----------


## Laramie

https://twitter.com/i/topics/news/e1...D&refsrc=email

*Telsa in Tulsa has a nice ring to it.*

----------


## Bunty

> Tulsa IMO has a very good chance of securing the Telsa Plant.
> 
> If Telsa were going to Texas, you bet they would have already selected Austin.   Texas isn't going to give any more incentives to lure Telsa and they know it.  They are playing this game to see what they can get from Oklahoma.  They know Oklahoma's track record on tax incentives thru the old Oklahoma City GM plant debacle.
> 
> If we were to get this plant; it will be great for all of Oklahoma particularly the Tulsa, Muskogee and Bartlesville (Northeast Quadrant) would reap the benefits of employment and support from this huge mega plant.
> 
> Let's not forget; Tulsa is on a barge canal transportation system Ports of Catoosa/Muskogee, an extra alternative that Austin doesn't have.


Bartlesville and Muskogee don't benefit much as it is now from being close to Tulsa.  Instead, I see the east side suburbs booming even more, like Broken Arrow, Owasso and Claremore.  They're closer and most people don't want to drive to work any further than they have to.

----------


## BG918

> Bartlesville and Muskogee don't benefit much as it is now from being close to Tulsa.  Instead, I see the east side suburbs booming even more, like Broken Arrow, Owasso and Claremore.  They're closer and most people don't want to drive to work any further than they have to.


The Black Fox site near Inola has been mentioned as a possible location.  It was recently transferred from PSO to the Port Authority.  The eastern half has a new Sofidel paper mill and as part of that development they built a rail spur to the Union Pacific main line.  The western half of the site is still undeveloped and has plans for barge terminal facilities with direct access to the Verdigris River.  The eastern suburbs of Tulsa are about 20 min away via Hwy 412.

----------


## Eric

> Bartlesville and Muskogee don't benefit much as it is now from being close to Tulsa.  Instead, I see the east side suburbs booming even more, like Broken Arrow, Owasso and Claremore.  They're closer and most people don't want to drive to work any further than they have to.


This may be a shocker, but Bartlesville has a net influx of commuters on a given day, not the other way around. So I don't see this helping B'Ville one bit in terms of growing the community.

----------


## gopokes88

Austin is firmly in the lead but some blue blooded Tulsa friends tell me George Kaiser is becoming very very very active recruiting Tesla.

----------


## Laramie

Oops!  Good points, forgot about Broken Arrow (110,135) & Owasso (33,773) they are closer to Tulsa.  They are two cities in the Tulsa MSA that has maintained substantial growth.

----------


## OkiePoke

Any idea when there will be an announcement?

----------


## Jersey Boss

Maybe the State will kick in Burns Flats for Space-X. I believe that was the vision for this place for some years.

----------


## Bunty

> Austin is firmly in the lead but some blue blooded Tulsa friends tell me George Kaiser is becoming very very very active recruiting Tesla.


Well, yeah, after he blew nearly a half billion for a new city park, he'd like to see it pay off well before he passes away.  He's 77.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Well, yeah, after he blew nearly a half billion for a new city park, he'd like to see it pay off well before he passes away.  He's 77.


Why do you feel that putting your money where your mouth is for civic improvements, "blowing" a half billion dollars?   I would gladly welcome anyone contributing that kind of money to Norman for civic improvements.

----------


## BG918

> Well, yeah, after he blew nearly a half billion for a new city park, he'd like to see it pay off well before he passes away.  He's 77.


All of GKFF's contributions to Tulsa are well over $1B.  In addition to the Gathering Place they are behind Guthrie Green, the Bob Dylan Archive, Tulsa Artist Fellowship, Tulsa Remote, EduCare, expansion/preservation of Turkey Mountain Urban Wilderness, recent downtown streetscape improvements, the divided biking/walking trails along the Arkansas River, among others..

----------


## HOT ROD

imagine there's no tulsa as we know it without him. ..

----------


## dcsooner

> Why do you feel that putting your money where your mouth is for civic improvements, "blowing" a half billion dollars?   I would gladly welcome anyone contributing that kind of money to Norman for civic improvements.


Absolutely agree

----------


## Eric

Kaiser Foundation making a push with some extremely well produced videos...

https://vimeo.com/420696275

----------


## AP

Very impressive. It makes me a little jealous, tbh.

----------


## chuck5815

> Kaiser Foundation making a push with some extremely well produced videos...
> 
> https://vimeo.com/420696275


weird. I didn’t see any Kaiser Francis EE’s in the video. I guess none of them are edgy enough?

----------


## Eric

> weird. I didnt see any Kaiser Francis EEs in the video. I guess none of them are edgy enough?


He doesn't run any hi-tech type companies. That was kind of the point of the pitch. Tulsa is a good place for hi-tech. 

GKFF is a foundation. Not that exciting.

----------


## Pete

This point has been made before but OKC does not have private benefactors who are helping our community in any way like Kaiser.

Aubrey McClendon used Chesapeake money, not his own and that dried up as soon as he was given the boot and well before his death.

Devon has obviously made a big investment but has also received a lot of help from the city and Larry Nichols has done very little outside the company which is publicly owned.

Harold Hamm has made some donations to diabetes research at the OUHSC but that is a cause that is personal to him.

You could point to the Thunder but the city has poured tens of millions into the arena and of course the owners are making a profit.


We just keep taxing ourselves and the big money guys in town are the ones personally benefitting.  Would sure be nice if we had people stepping up like Kaiser.

----------


## runOKC

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...l-billionaires

This article has been posted here before but I’ll post again for anyone who hasn’t read it. Super interesting read.

----------


## jccouger

> This point has been made before but OKC does not have private benefactors who are helping our community in any way like Kaiser.
> 
> Aubrey McClendon used Chesapeake money, not his own and that dried up as soon as he was given the boot and well before his death.
> 
> Devon has obviously made a big investment but has also received a lot of help from the city and Larry Nichols has done very little outside the company which is publicly owned.
> 
> Harold Hamm has made some donations to diabetes research at the OUHSC but that is a cause that is personal to him.
> 
> You could point to the Thunder but the city has poured tens of millions into the arena and of course the owners are making a profit.
> ...


The Love's family perhaps? I know a lot of the donations are made from their company but they seem to be a little more committed to the community than most of our billionaires.

----------


## BG918

> This point has been made before but OKC does not have private benefactors who are helping our community in any way like Kaiser.
> 
> Aubrey McClendon used Chesapeake money, not his own and that dried up as soon as he was given the boot and well before his death.
> 
> Devon has obviously made a big investment but has also received a lot of help from the city and Larry Nichols has done very little outside the company which is publicly owned.
> 
> Harold Hamm has made some donations to diabetes research at the OUHSC but that is a cause that is personal to him.
> 
> You could point to the Thunder but the city has poured tens of millions into the arena and of course the owners are making a profit.
> ...


The Green family has oddly helped Tulsa more than OKC with their significant contributions to ORU.  Unless they are involved in other local philanthropy that I'm not aware of.

----------


## Pete

> The Green family has oddly helped Tulsa more than OKC with their significant contributions to ORU.  Unless they are involved in other local philanthropy that I'm not aware of.


They have helped OBU but of course that is in Shawnee and is a pretty big reach.

----------


## HangryHippo

The Green family is pretty worthless as far as OKC philanthropy goes, except for stealing antiquities.  But even those were sent to D.C.

----------


## Laramie

Tulsa is really exploring all avenue to secure this plant.  Hope their extraordinary efforts pay off.   This will be a win for Oklahoma; especially a boost to the Tulsa area with 10,000 jobs

----------


## Bunty

Apparently, Gov. Stitt was with Musk today.

https://twitter.com/GovStitt/status/...734944259?s=20

----------


## chuck5815

It's weird to see all of the Billionaire Bashing on here. The Loves and Greens have created thousands of jobs and decided to keep their Corporate HQ's in OKC, when they could have easily moved them to Dallas or Frisco. I agree, it would be nice if they invested in parks or recreation, but I would suggest their corporate presence has been particularly material to OKC, in a variety of ways.

----------


## BG918

Looks like the Navistar/IC Bus plant is off the table as a possible factory site, which is good news as it employs 1600 people

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301067069.html

----------


## dcsooner

> Looks like the Navistar/IC Bus plant is off the table as a possible factory site, which is good news as it employs 1600 people
> 
> https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301067069.html


Love the City slogan

----------


## Robert_M

Read through the thread quickly and didn't see any mention but Tulsa is getting at least a Tesla Delivery and Service Center.  Going in at 6010 S. 129th Ave. East. Currently set to bid the middle of June. Shows to be 23,718 square feet.

----------


## Pete



----------


## Plutonic Panda

What happened to the one that was going to be built in OKC?

----------


## Pete

> What happened to the one that was going to be built in OKC?


I've never seen anything about that.

----------


## The Shadow

I know there was a bill introduced in the legislature a couple of years ago, but are you able to legally purchase a new Telsa vehicle in Oklahoma?

----------


## maverickbroncho

Technically no, but instead you buy it from California and once the transaction is complete Tesla ships it to a delivery center or direct to the customer. Its an extra step and inconvenient, but 100% better than any dealer experience. Ive had mine for 2 years and am excited to get a service center in state, though Oklahoma already has mobile service which is excellent.




> I know there was a bill introduced in the legislature a couple of years ago, but are you able to legally purchase a new Telsa vehicle in Oklahoma?

----------


## The Shadow

> Technically no, but instead you buy it from California and once the transaction is complete Tesla ships it to a delivery center or direct to the customer. It’s an extra step and inconvenient, but 100% better than any dealer experience. I’ve had mine for 2 years and am excited to get a service center in state, though Oklahoma already has mobile service which is excellent.


So you receive a CA title?

----------


## maverickbroncho

No, you get a temp sticker with the purchase agreement that basically works like a temporary tag. Held on to that until I registered in OK and never had any issues.




> So you receive a CA title?

----------


## HangryHippo

Maverick - have you ever charged your Tesla at OnCue (or someplace similar)?  Are those chargers free to use?  I've googled, but I can't seem to find anything definitive.

----------


## maverickbroncho

Some are free (I believe OnCue doesn’t charge), but others will be pay for use. I use the ChargePoint app to find non-Tesla charge stations and use an adapter. The app will give the rate, pics, and reviews. I’ve also found hotels, Hampton in particular, will have free chargers available for customers too.

----------


## jccouger

Anybody hearing anything about Elon being in Tulsa today?

----------


## jdizzle

Another issue is that OK doesn't allow sales of Tesla's the way Tesla sells them (directly, not through a dealership). With that being pretty much a direct threat to Tesla, that could prove the death knell to Tesla bringing a factory to Tulsa or Oklahoma.

----------


## jccouger

> Another issue is that OK doesn't allow sales of Tesla's the way Tesla sells them (directly, not through a dealership). With that being pretty much a direct threat to Tesla, that could prove the death knell to Tesla bringing a factory to Tulsa or Oklahoma.


The same is true in Texas.

----------


## jdizzle

> The same is true in Texas.


Tesla has stores in Texas. They don't here.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Tesla has stores in Texas. They don't here.


Check up thread. They’re about to build one in Tulsa.

----------


## jccouger

> Tesla has stores in Texas. They don't here.


They do not. They have galleries & can not accept orders at them.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Check up thread. They’re about to build one in Tulsa.


I thought that was only a service center, not car sales.

----------


## Laramie

What can the Oklahoma legislature do to make changes or do they need to make changes that could tilt the scales in bringing Tesla to Tulsa...

*Tulsa rally declares 'there's no better place in America' for Tesla's new factory**
By Michael Overall Tulsa World Jun 2, 2020*




> The rally organizers passed out 250 T-shirts featuring a design from Tulsa World editorial cartoonist Bruce Plante, who depicted the Driller riding in the back of a Tesla pickup like the one that would be built here.


*
Tulsa World:* https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loca...8ce42b841.html

----------


## jdizzle

> What can the Oklahoma legislature do to make changes or do they need to make changes that could tilt the scales in bringing Tesla to Tulsa...
> 
> *Tulsa rally declares 'there's no better place in America' for Tesla's new factory**
> By Michael Overall Tulsa World Jun 2, 2020*
> 
> 
> *
> Tulsa World:* https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loca...8ce42b841.html


Education and QOL factors are heavily in Texas' favor. Oklahoma is in the bottom 5 for both.

----------


## Bellaboo

> Education and QOL factors are heavily in Texas' favor. Oklahoma is in the bottom 5 for both.


Not so sure about that. Assembly line workers fall right in line with vo-tech , and QOL, you ever driven in any populous in Texas without getting hung up in traffic for hours ?

----------


## Bunty

> What can the Oklahoma legislature do to make changes or do they need to make changes that could tilt the scales in bringing Tesla to Tulsa...


Legislature has at least changed in one way a lot in recent years by not being nearly as anti-LGBT.   With revenues down, they can't fund education any more. 

 Life is how you make it.  Just because a state doesn't have a high quality of life doesn't  mean you can't make it a good life for yourself.

----------


## gopokes88

> Education and QOL factors are heavily in Texas' favor. Oklahoma is in the bottom 5 for both.


What a revealing post with a message that no one has ever shared here before

----------


## jdizzle

> What a revealing post with a message that no one has ever shared here before


Doesn't make it less true.

----------


## dcsooner

> Doesn't make it less true.


+1
Denial and apathy appear to be a Oklahoma standard for some

----------


## Jake

Another dump on Oklahoma thread, nice.

----------


## chuck5815

> +1
> Denial and apathy appear to be a Oklahoma standard for some


Ah, here we go.

----------


## Bunty

> +1
> Denial and apathy appear to be a Oklahoma standard for some


But enough voters rejected denial and apathy by voting out a dozen Republican incumbents of the Oklahoma Legislature in 2018.  It was quite an awesome political shock to the state.

----------


## Bunty

> Another dump on Oklahoma thread, nice.


Really. Too early for it.  Save it should Tesla not pick Tulsa.  If that happens, hopefully something good can come out of it for a better Oklahoma.

----------


## Jake

Didn't losing out to Indianapolis for that United Airlines facility help spur MAPS in OKC? If Tulsa doesn't get picked hopefully it'll spur city leaders and civilians to take action to do something similar for Tulsa.

----------


## jccouger

please pass this on to all engineering friends

https://www.tulsafortesla.com/?fbcli...E2Aiej9_bzEIQo

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Another dump on Oklahoma thread, nice.


Dude, come on. There are a million threads on this site that cheerlead and cherish Oklahoma with many saying nothing but good things. Every time someone criticizes this state be it constructive or not the usual suspects jump on them. 

DC Sooner and others usually post perfectly valid criticisms about the state and I highly doubt it is just to dump on the state. Many like me who often speak harshly about this state do so out of love not hate. Its frustrating to see it and even more so the see the populous so in denial and quick to silence anyone who sees the grocery list of issues this place has because of the backwards mentality that runs rampant.

----------


## mugofbeer

> Didn't losing out to Indianapolis for that United Airlines facility help spur MAPS in OKC? If Tulsa doesn't get picked hopefully it'll spur city leaders and civilians to take action to do something similar for Tulsa.


United Airlines, American Airlines, Boeing and Micron Technology

----------


## mugofbeer

> Dude, come on. There are a million threads on this site that cheerlead and cherish Oklahoma with many saying nothing but good things. Every time someone criticizes this state be it constructive or not the usual suspects jump on them. 
> 
> DC Sooner and others usually post perfectly valid criticisms about the state and I highly doubt it is just to dump on the state. Many like me who often speak harshly about this state do so out of love not hate. It’s frustrating to see it and even more so the see the populous so in denial and quick to silence anyone who sees the grocery list of issues this place has because of the backwards mentality that runs rampant.


PP, its not that the points aren't valid, its that the same posters post the exact same negative comments over and over and over again.  On this thread, something potentially economically fantastic could happen in Tulsa, but it's become almost comically predictable the same posters come out of the shadows to say the same negative things.  Everyone's aware of it, already.  Maybe try posting something positive and uplifting for once or just stay quiet.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> PP, its not that the points aren't valid, its that the same posters post the exact same negative comments over and over and over again.  On this thread, something potentially economically fantastic could happen in Tulsa, but it's become almost comically predictable the same posters come out of the shadows to say the same negative things.  Everyone's aware of it, already.  Maybe try posting something positive and uplifting for once or just stay quiet.


I hear you but it’s worth making these points and raising awareness. I love this state and I want to see it reach its full potential. It won’t if it sticks to the status quo.

----------


## jccouger

Heard another rumor the decision was final & Tesla is going with Austin.

----------


## dcsooner

> Dude, come on. There are a million threads on this site that cheerlead and cherish Oklahoma with many saying nothing but good things. Every time someone criticizes this state be it constructive or not the usual suspects jump on them. 
> 
> DC Sooner and others usually post perfectly valid criticisms about the state and I highly doubt it is just to dump on the state. Many like me who often speak harshly about this state do so out of love not hate. It’s frustrating to see it and even more so the see the populous so in denial and quick to silence anyone who sees the grocery list of issues this place has because of the backwards mentality that runs rampant.


+1000

----------


## Bunty

> Heard another rumor the decision was final & Tesla is going with Austin.


I wouldn't be surprised if true, and it will possibly be at the same site Tesla considered in 2014 for a factory. But Tulsa and Oklahoma won't totally lose from looking good enough to come in 2nd place.

----------


## gopokes88

> Heard another rumor the decision was final & Tesla is going with Austin.


Heard somewhat the opposite. The delay is Tulsa caught musks attention and slowed the whole thing down

----------


## Laramie

> Heard somewhat the opposite. The delay is Tulsa caught musks attention and slowed the whole thing down



Hear you bro... +1, +2, +3

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Heard somewhat the opposite. The delay is Tulsa caught musks attention and slowed the whole thing down


this is what I heard while I was up there over the weekend

----------


## catch22

I hope that is true. That would be a big win for Oklahoma. Yuge.

----------


## jccouger

> Heard somewhat the opposite. The delay is Tulsa caught musks attention and slowed the whole thing down


I REALLY hope you are right, and I trust your sources more than mine TBH.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

> Heard another rumor the decision was final & Tesla is going with Austin.


I can tell you that this is not true. I have a close contact who works for the city of Tulsa, specifically to recruit businesses to the city.  He told me Last week they expect a decision to be made in July. Also, he was very optimistic about our chances - won't go into too much detail but he was confident that if we do not get this plant, we will get one of the 4-5 they have planned in the future.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

> Heard somewhat the opposite. The delay is Tulsa caught musks attention and slowed the whole thing down


13 Tulsans had dinner with Musk 2 days before spacex launched. We are pitching Austin as "California in the middle of Texas" and it seems to be working. My gut still says Austin, but it's not a blowout by any means. 

I was told that we started a one mile race against Austin, and they had a 3/4th mile head start. And while we may not be ahead, we have at least pulled up right to their heels. Again, coming from someone in the city of Tulsa who recruits companies for a living.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

Also, was told the property they are proposing is not in Tulsa county.

----------


## Jake

> Also, was told the property they are proposing is not in Tulsa county.


On TulsaNow there was talk about a potential site in Inola being considered. Any validity to that to your knowledge? I always assumed they'd want to be somewhat close-ish to the Port of Catoosa, but I have no idea how these things work.

----------


## OkiePoke

Announce in July, have cars roll off by Jan 1. Aggressive. 

I'm sure the employees who are building the plant are excited about the delays in the announcement.

----------


## ChrisHayes

I would think the Mid America Industrial Park would be a great location for it. Though that would require a big chunk of the land there, and building a brand new building from the ground up.

----------


## Dustin

> 13 Tulsans had dinner with Musk 2 days before spacex launched. We are pitching Austin as "California in the middle of Texas"


That is so cringey.

----------


## 3nglnd

https://electrek.co/2020/06/18/tesla...build-factory/

Tesla acquires $5 million worth of land outside Austin to build new factory

----------


## PhiAlpha

> That is so cringey.


Yet true. Elon’s trying to get out of California and is fed up with the political/business environment there...if Austin is much more similar to California than Tulsa is in that regard (which is almost indisputable), promote your strength.

----------


## kevin lee

Question for anybody. I know I hate Tulsa and it's leadership with a passion and most of the time I wish them nothing but the worst. But I'm unbiased with this question. How does this benefit OKC?
Nashville landed Nissan and it started a boom still going on today. Meanwhile, Memphis hasn't seen any positive effects at all. Nashville's population has increased by more than half a million. People are leaving Memphis for Nashville. Memphis went from a positive increase, before Nashville's boom, to a negative afterwards. 
 I'm not saying that will be us, but to assume this will help OKC just because it helps the state is wrong.

----------


## gopokes88

> Question for anybody. I know I hate Tulsa and it's leadership with a passion and most of the time I wish them nothing but the worst. But I'm unbiased with this question. How does this benefit OKC?
> Nashville landed Nissan and it started a boom still going on today. Meanwhile, Memphis hasn't seen any positive effects at all. Nashville's population has increased by more than half a million. People are leaving Memphis for Nashville. Memphis went from a positive increase, before Nashville's boom, to a negative afterwards. 
>  I'm not saying that will be us, but to assume this will help OKC just because it helps the state is wrong.


1. Tax revenue. State govt would see a significant bump over time. All those added state govt jobs are in okc. 
2. The supply chain and suppliers for that giga would be massive. So massive that some would locate to okc and just truck it the 90 miles. OKC has plenty of facilities sitting empty versus buying and building new in Tulsa. 
3. Perception of Oklahoma in general.

----------


## Laramie

The distance between Memphis & Nashville is similar to the distance between Oklahoma City and Dallas--roughly 200 miles driving distant.

----------


## jdizzle

https://oklahoman.com/article/566488...-travis-county

Yeah, Oklahoma can't come close to this...

----------


## kevin lee

Good points (IF) Telsa sees it your way. We're assuming the supply chain would use OKC infrastructure, but in reality it doesn't need to. The shipping radius in 2020 is 11 hours. So make Tulsa the epicenter and go 11 hours in any direction. Whoever will make their parts the cheapest in that bubble will be their main suppliers. I'm sort of on the fence as far as perception. Mercedes Benz is in Alabama, and the only perception that state has is when Birmingham went bankrupt.

----------


## jccouger

> I can tell you that this is not true. I have a close contact who works for the city of Tulsa, specifically to recruit businesses to the city.  He told me Last week they expect a decision to be made in July. Also, he was very optimistic about our chances - won't go into too much detail but he was confident that if we do not get this plant, we will get one of the 4-5 they have planned in the future.


Sources in Tulsa aren't the same as sources inside Tesla. Tesla probably just hasn't notified Tulsa of the decision yet.

----------


## Bunty

> Sources in Tulsa aren't the same as sources inside Tesla. Tesla probably just hasn't notified Tulsa of the decision yet.


No wonder.  On Twitter Musk said that "Tesla has an option to purchase this land, but has not exercised it."

----------


## dcsooner

> https://electrek.co/2020/06/18/tesla...build-factory/
> 
> Tesla acquires $5 million worth of land outside Austin to build new factory


Done Deal

----------


## gopokes88

> https://oklahoman.com/article/566488...-travis-county
> 
> Yeah, Oklahoma can't come close to this...


Won’t be an issue. If they need to beat the Austin offer, they will. 

It’s more do you actually want to come to Tulsa

----------


## shawnw

> Done Deal


Not according to Elon

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1273702016221540352




> Tesla has an option to purchase this land, but has not exercised it



(edit: oops just saw that someone already posted that)

----------


## jonny d

> Won’t be an issue. If they need to beat the Austin offer, they will. 
> 
> It’s more do you actually want to come to Tulsa


How can you say that? Where is OK going to be able to justify that, when they keep gutting the state budget?

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

> Sources in Tulsa aren't the same as sources inside Tesla. Tesla probably just hasn't notified Tulsa of the decision yet.


He was asked on Twitter 5 hours ago if Tulsa was still in the mix, and replied "we are considering several options". Nothings been decided yet.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

Good read


https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile..../idUSKBN23P37Y

"Tesla told officials in Travis County, Texas, the automaker wants to invest about $1 billion to build a 4 million to 5 million square foot vehicle assembly plant employing 5,000 people on the grounds of what is now a cement operation near Austin. But it needs tax breaks to make the site competitive with an alternative location in Oklahoma, according to documents filed with Texas officials."

So looks like they are telling Austin to beat our best bid. Man, this is exciting stuff.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

> On TulsaNow there was talk about a potential site in Inola being considered. Any validity to that to your knowledge? I always assumed they'd want to be somewhat close-ish to the Port of Catoosa, but I have no idea how these things work.


 Not sure about exact location, but that seems to line up with my information.

----------


## dankrutka

Beware of Musk just using Tulsa to get more taxpayer money like Amazon just did. Just don’t say you don’t like socialism if you’re for these government handouts to businesses.

----------


## Pete

> https://electrek.co/2020/06/18/tesla...build-factory/
> 
> Tesla acquires $5 million worth of land outside Austin to build new factory


Sounds like Tesla is just playing Tulsa to get as much in incentives as possible from Austin, a common ploy with these companies.

----------


## jccouger

> Sounds like Tesla is just playing Tulsa to get as much in incentives as possible from Austin, a common ploy with these companies.


Exactly.

----------


## Mballard85

> Sounds like Tesla is just playing Tulsa to get as much in incentives as possible from Austin, a common ploy with these companies.


Which sucks, because it seems like Tulsa has done everything they can, but the writing was on the wall as soon as these two were announced as the finalist. Austin has so many large corporations i.e. Facebook, Google, Oracle, Dell, IBM, Amazon, Apple. Just an uphill battle the entire time, but good for Tulsa, they made a hell of an effort.

----------


## Pete

As they say, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

There are always things to be learned when you compete and that helps tremendously with the next opportunity.

----------


## jerrywall

> As they say, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
> 
> There are always things to be learned when you compete and that helps tremendously with the next opportunity.


And, it still raises the profile to the city, and it sends a message to other businesses that there's something there to look at.

----------


## Jake

I don't think Tulsa was ever a "real" possibility. Pretty sure they were used the entire time just to leverage Austin. Tulsa would only be picked if Austin outright rejected them for whatever reason.

Still, I admire Tulsa trying. Both cities and the state as a whole should compete that fiercely more often.

----------


## shavethewhales

> As they say, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
> 
> There are always things to be learned when you compete and that helps tremendously with the next opportunity.


I agree. This was always a moonshot, but the fact that we are competing with the big boys and getting our name out there makes all the difference in the world. Who knows who else is paying attention, and the experience is highly valuable for the next big fish. There is also the high likelihood that Tulsa gets chosen down the road for a smaller facility as Tesla is rapidly expanding.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

I think Tulsa would be a great place for a Tesla factory or any tech company. Oklahoma has to keep trying and I think they can get a few of these companies and really show why it is a good place for business. 

I have worked at a few places that are national companies here in Oklahoma and the common factor is they want to grow their OKC/Norman offices because there is a good workforce and people don't mind moving here since they can own a home for their family.

----------


## gopokes88

> How can you say that? Where is OK going to be able to justify that, when they keep gutting the state budget?


They dont have to justify it. Tulsa offers incentives. Stitt calls a special session and hands out tax breaks and fee rebates. Its not exactly rocket science.

----------


## gopokes88

> I agree. This was always a moonshot, but the fact that we are competing with the big boys and getting our name out there makes all the difference in the world. Who knows who else is paying attention, and the experience is highly valuable for the next big fish. There is also the high likelihood that Tulsa gets chosen down the road for a smaller facility as Tesla is rapidly expanding.


Tulsa would be a good fit for a battery factory because of the port access.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

I can’t applaud Tulsa enough for this whether they get it or not. They have a can do mentality and that’s what it takes to do great things. It’s part of the reason why Texas is Texas and Oklahoma is the way it is.

----------


## BG918

> Tulsa would be a good fit for a battery factory because of the port access.


The rumored site they have been considering is the former PSO Black Fox site which sits next to the navigation channel in between Tulsa and Inola.  It is a great location for a large manufacturing operation, whether it be Tesla or some other company.

----------


## shavethewhales

^That site is already taken by the new Sofidel paper plant. Probably plenty of room in the vicinity, but then again that is true for most of the metro.

----------


## OkiePoke

> The rumored site they have been considering is the former PSO Black Fox site which sits next to the navigation channel in between Tulsa and Inola.  It is a great location for a large manufacturing operation, whether it be Tesla or some other company.


Isn't that Sofidel?

----------


## BG918

> Isn't that Sofidel?


Sofidel is only the eastern portion.  The tract on the river is available and is set up to have a barge terminal.

----------


## ChrisHayes

> The rumored site they have been considering is the former PSO Black Fox site which sits next to the navigation channel in between Tulsa and Inola.  It is a great location for a large manufacturing operation, whether it be Tesla or some other company.


Wasn't a paper mill going in there?

----------


## BG918

> Wasn't a paper mill going in there?


Here is a map that shows Sofidel and the other sites within the former PSO property that was originally going to be a nuclear power plant

----------


## Martin

whether inola or austin, i guess it's all the same...

----------


## LocoAko

Surely not.... right? 

https://mobile.twitter.com/KOCODillo...41179140706305

----------


## gopokes88

> Surely not.... right? 
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/KOCODillo...41179140706305


It's probably the drone guys, Kratos. They manufacture here, HQ is in SD.

----------


## LocoAko

That makes more sense. And I guess when I saw "aerospace" I thought of Elon because of SpaceX, but Tesla would hardly be considered aerospace anyway. Doh.

----------


## AP

A pretty great get, though. Tinker continues to be one of, if not THE, biggest assets for the State.

----------


## gopokes88

Regarding Tesla in Tulsa here's what I heard.

1. Austin and particularity Travis County pissed off some very high ups at Tesla. If there's 10 people who get input, they pissed off like #3-5. Musk is annoyed but not pissed yet. Those Telsa execs are loudly advocating long term Austin is simply California 2.0.
2. The grand gestures were received very well. 
3. Lots of the oil money and companies in Tulsa (and one in OKC apparently) made calls and said they would be welcomed. The oil CEOs told Telsa they view the future that there's a need for both. This was received well.
4. Stitt and Musk talk a lot, Stitt promised OU and OSU would receive funding boosts to their engineering programs. Stitt has been full court press. (My opinion; this is exactly why you elect Stitt, if anyone can close the deal and sell Tulsa, it's the guy who built a massive company based on his sales ability)
5. Musk wasn't kidding about being done with California. This site will eventually be the corporate HQ and Tesla will eventually have 0 operations in California. Tulsa has done a lot to slow this down, but ultimately Musk is going to live by this plant, and he loves Austin. That's the tall order right now. It shifted from we can make the things you need here, into does Elon Musk think he can live in Tulsa, Oklahoma one day?
6. Tesla ran a secret poll to various people in the company with a very surprising result. 80% of those polled would be willing to relocate to Austin, but 65% were also willing to relocate to Tulsa. This # was higher than they thought it would be. 

Austin is still probably going to get it, but all the momentum is on Tulsa's side.

----------


## gopokes88

> A pretty great get, though. Tinker continues to be one of, if not THE, biggest assets for the State.


Eventually those companies attract enough talent we become a hub for talent. Then we start attracting other aerospace companies that don't work exclusively off government contracts and diversification within aerospace occurs.

----------


## Jake

> Regarding Tesla in Tulsa here's what I heard.
> 
> 1. Austin and particularity Travis County pissed off some very high ups at Tesla. If there's 10 people who get input, they pissed off like #3-5. Musk is annoyed but not pissed yet. Those Telsa execs are loudly advocating long term Austin is simply California 2.0.
> 2. The grand gestures were received very well. 
> 3. Lots of the oil money and companies in Tulsa (and one in OKC apparently) made calls and said they would be welcomed. The oil CEOs told Telsa they view the future that there's a need for both. This was received well.
> 4. Stitt and Musk talk a lot, Stitt promised OU and OSU would receive funding boosts to their engineering programs. Stitt has been full court press. (My opinion; this is exactly why you elect Stitt, if anyone can close the deal and sell Tulsa, it's the guy who built a massive company based on his sales ability)
> 5. Musk wasn't kidding about being done with California. This site will eventually be the corporate HQ and Tesla will eventually have 0 operations in California. Tulsa has done a lot to slow this down, but ultimately Musk is going to live by this plant, and he loves Austin. That's the tall order right now. It shifted from we can make the things you need here, into does Elon Musk think he can live in Tulsa, Oklahoma one day?
> 6. Tesla ran a secret poll to various people in the company with a very surprising result. 80% of those polled would be willing to relocate to Austin, but 65% were also willing to relocate to Tulsa. This # was higher than they thought it would be. 
> 
> Austin is still probably going to get it, but all the momentum is on Tulsa's side.


Regardless of the outcome, I think Tulsa simply giving Telsa something to think about is a win in my book. Never thought they had a chance, and still think Austin will get it, but it's never a bad thing to work hard to put yourselves in contention, and Tulsa has done a great job. Good for them and I feel like it'll pay off in some way in the future. Perhaps not with Tesla, but with a different company.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

I really hope tulsa gets it. I will hold my breath here because crazier things have happened, right?

----------


## jdizzle

> Regardless of the outcome, I think Tulsa simply giving Telsa something to think about is a win in my book. Never thought they had a chance, and still think Austin will get it, but it's never a bad thing to work hard to put yourselves in contention, and Tulsa has done a great job. Good for them and I feel like it'll pay off in some way in the future. Perhaps not with Tesla, but with a different company.


I still feel OKC would have been an easier sell than Tulsa. Tulsa is doing well, but OKC having OU and OSU within a 1 hour drive would do wonders, since Austin has UT-Austin.

----------


## jedicurt

> I still feel OKC would have been an easier sell than Tulsa. Tulsa is doing well, but OKC having OU and OSU within a 1 hour drive would do wonders, since Austin has UT-Austin.


Tulsa has OSU and U of Arkansas within like 90-100 minutes of it...

----------


## OKC Guy

Just being in the running can kickstart other companies interest.  Lots of big behind the scene agencies get involved and now have great data on Tulsa and Oklahoma in general.  Free press as well.

----------


## jdizzle

> Tulsa has OSU and U of Arkansas within like 90-100 minutes of it...


2 hours, but yes, you are right. But OU and OSU have top tier engineering schools, in different areas. I see your point. But when comparing a big fish (Austin) with a small fish (Tulsa), Oklahoma using a medium fish (OKC) might have helped bridge the gap. I hope Tulsa gets it, for OKs sake. Just can't help but wonder if OKC would be the better choice.

----------


## OKC Guy

> I still feel OKC would have been an easier sell than Tulsa. Tulsa is doing well, but OKC having OU and OSU within a 1 hour drive would do wonders, since Austin has UT-Austin.


The other advantage is being closer to Dallas, you can easier pull talent from Dallas to OKC than Tulsa.

----------


## jerrywall

> The other advantage is being closer to Dallas, you can easier pull talent from Dallas to OKC than Tulsa.


It's completely anecdotal and unscientific, but folks I interact with in the tech community have a better perception of Tulsa as a relocation potential than OKC.  I don't think the comparisons they would make are accurate (Tulsa is seen as hipper, more urban, younger, more liberal, etc) but the perception is out there in some circles at least.

----------


## GoGators

> 2 hours, but yes, you are right. But OU and OSU have top tier engineering schools, in different areas. I see your point. But when comparing a big fish (Austin) with a small fish (Tulsa), Oklahoma using a medium fish (OKC) might have helped bridge the gap. I hope Tulsa gets it, for OKs sake. Just can't help but wonder if OKC would be the better choice.


You can go Norman to Tulsa in less than 2 hours. I understand what you are saying with OKC having OU in the actual metro as a selling point and i definitely agree. But Tulsa does sit in a pretty nice spot in relation to 3 large universities. Of course that does look less impressive when comparing it to having one of the largest public universities in the country in your downtown.

----------


## jedicurt

> You can go Norman to Tulsa in less than 2 hours. I understand what you are saying with OKC having OU in the actual metro as a selling point and i definitely agree. But Tulsa does sit in a pretty nice spot in relation to 3 large universities. Of course that does look less impressive when comparing it to having one of the largest public universities in the country in your downtown.


and Tulsa has a port... something that even Austin doesn't have

----------


## BG918

> and Tulsa has a port... something that even Austin doesn't have


I'm not sure if that is really that necessary for their operations but I'm sure it doesn't hurt.  Rail and obviously highway access are absolutely critical; you are significantly closer to the midwest and eastern markets via both in Tulsa vs central Texas.

----------


## gopokes88

> and Tulsa has a port... something that even Austin doesn't have


The port has been a massive selling point. Access to the upper Midwest, gulf, and east coast.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Regarding Tesla in Tulsa here's what I heard.
> 
> 1. Austin and particularity Travis County pissed off some very high ups at Tesla. If there's 10 people who get input, they pissed off like #3-5. Musk is annoyed but not pissed yet. Those Telsa execs are loudly advocating long term Austin is simply California 2.0.
> 2. The grand gestures were received very well. 
> 3. Lots of the oil money and companies in Tulsa (and one in OKC apparently) made calls and said they would be welcomed. The oil CEOs told Telsa they view the future that there's a need for both. This was received well.
> 4. Stitt and Musk talk a lot, Stitt promised OU and OSU would receive funding boosts to their engineering programs. Stitt has been full court press. (My opinion; this is exactly why you elect Stitt, if anyone can close the deal and sell Tulsa, it's the guy who built a massive company based on his sales ability)
> 5. Musk wasn't kidding about being done with California. This site will eventually be the corporate HQ and Tesla will eventually have 0 operations in California. Tulsa has done a lot to slow this down, but ultimately Musk is going to live by this plant, and he loves Austin. That's the tall order right now. It shifted from we can make the things you need here, into does Elon Musk think he can live in Tulsa, Oklahoma one day?
> 6. Tesla ran a secret poll to various people in the company with a very surprising result. 80% of those polled would be willing to relocate to Austin, but 65% were also willing to relocate to Tulsa. This # was higher than they thought it would be. 
> 
> Austin is still probably going to get it, but all the momentum is on Tulsa's side.


A pretty solid situation that works for both cities would be Austin getting the HQ and Tulsa getting the plant. Everyone wins...except California which I’m fine with.

----------


## gopokes88

> A pretty solid situation that works for both cities would be Austin getting the HQ and Tulsa getting the plant. Everyone wins...except California which I’m fine with.


Musk likes having HQ by the plant. Manufacturers have stupidly gotten away from this over the years. The reason is innovation in techniques and products. It’s is quicker and easier when the people who can find the efficiencies are near the people who can approve them. 

I think Austin gets this plant and when the California plant ages out the capex to upgrade goes to Tulsa and they shutter that plant.

----------


## brian72

Pipe dream that it comes here.  Austin is where the younger people want to go.  Wish I was wrong.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Pipe dream that it comes here.  Austin is where the younger people want to go.  Wish I was wrong.


Austin is the likely destination but it definitely is more than a pipe dream from everything I’ve been hearing.

----------


## Laramie

Texas' capital city has so much more to offer than Tulsa.  Not sure Austin wants Telsa; not as much as Tulsa wants Telsa.

----------


## Mike_M

> Musk likes having HQ by the plant. Manufacturers have stupidly gotten away from this over the years. The reason is innovation in techniques and products. It’s is quicker and easier when the people who can find the efficiencies are near the people who can approve them. 
> 
> I think Austin gets this plant and when the California plant ages out the capex to upgrade goes to Tulsa and they shutter that plant.


It's like Tulsa's own Hornets-Thunder story.

----------


## jedicurt

i mean, if he is looking at moving everything of his out of California permanently... one of the things that Oklahoma can offer is a space port...   heck, lets have the State just give him Burns Flat airport with all of the FAA clearance that comes with it.     maybe that would throw it over for Tesla to Tulsa is giving something that can be a SpaceX presence in the state too

----------


## 5alive

Love this idea^^^^^^^

----------


## OKC Guy

In Texas Tesla is just another company of many large ones.

In Tulsa Tesla would be one of if not the top dog.  That goes a long ways when you have more say on things.  

I think he goes to Texas cause thats logical.

----------


## HangryHippo

> In Texas Tesla is just another company of many large ones.
> 
> In Tulsa Tesla would be one of if not the top dog.  That goes a long ways when you have more say on things.


Yep.  Maybe not enough, but there's lots to be said for being one of the biggest fish in a small pond.

----------


## BG918

> Pipe dream that it comes here.  Austin is where the younger people want to go.  Wish I was wrong.


Tech workers maybe.  Auto workers could care less whether the city is hip or not, they just want a steady job and an affordable place to live.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Folks, please consider signing this:

https://www.tulsasaysyes.com/

----------


## AP

> Tech workers maybe.  Auto workers could care less whether the city is hip or not, they just want a steady job and an affordable place to live.


Yes everyone knows that blue collar works couldn’t care less about living in a cool city. They’re just tryin to survive.

----------


## Mike_M

> Pipe dream that it comes here.  Austin is where the younger people want to go.  Wish I was wrong.


Meh, I think Tesla has enough pull to bring worldwide talent wherever it sets up shop. Trying to convince Elon Musk to live in Tulsa is probably a harder sell.

----------


## jccouger

It's always fun to dream about winning the lottery until the numbers are announced lol

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Meh, I think Tesla has enough pull to bring worldwide talent wherever it sets up shop. Trying to convince Elon Musk to live in Tulsa is probably a harder sell.


Tesla would not have to scour the world to staff a truck manufacturing facility. Wherever he puts it and wherever his residence(s) are, are not synonymous.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

All it takes is one tech company to move here and I think the ball would roll.

I had a pretty good job offer in Austin a few years ago in tech and after visiting, looking at housing prices and the traffic I stayed in Oklahoma. Maybe fresh out of college kids with no need to buy and just rent with friends it would be fine but I cant imagine raising a family down there.

----------


## jdizzle

> It's always fun to dream about winning the lottery until the numbers are announced lol


But you can't win the lottery without playing.

----------


## hoya

Somebody point out to Elon that he can get medical marijuana in Oklahoma, but not in Texas.  I hear he likes the stuff.

----------


## hoya

I think Tulsa could do well marketing itself as the "hip" and "progressive" place to live in Oklahoma.  Just like Austin is seen as this liberal oasis in Texas, Tulsa could try to play that same angle here.  Tulsa has some advantages over OKC in terms of natural beauty.  It's simply in a prettier part of the state.  Add to that their music scene, their museums, and local philanthropists, they could establish a nice national identity for themselves.  Getting Tesla would certainly help in that.

----------


## chuck5815

> Somebody point out to Elon that he can get medical marijuana in Oklahoma, but not in Texas.  I hear he likes the stuff.


lol, whether he lived in Oklahoma or Texas -- he would have the very finest flown in from California on a daily basis.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

Am being told we will hear something this month. 


P.s.  is the talk about Tesla moving HQ anything more than talk at the moment?

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Am being told we will hear something this month. 
> 
> 
> P.s.  is the talk about Tesla moving HQ anything more than talk at the moment?


In May he claimed to be moving to either Texas or Nevada. He does appear a tad manical at times.

Elon Musk Says Tesla Suing California County, Moving Headquarters Out Of State : Coronavirus Live Updates : NPR
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...s-out-of-state

----------


## LocoAko

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1278451464562753537



> Elon Musk
> @elonmusk
> 
> Replying to 
> @GovStitt and @Tesla
> 
> Wow, Ive never seen this level of support! Out of respect, seems like I should at least visit.


lol.

Either this is extremely condescending or he's sarcastically implying that he's seriously considering Tulsa.

----------


## mugofbeer

> In May he claimed to be moving to either Texas or Nevada. He does appear a tad manical at times.
> 
> Elon Musk Says Tesla Suing California County, Moving Headquarters Out Of State : Coronavirus Live Updates : NPR
> https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...s-out-of-state


I'm probably stating very old news to you but just in case, Musk is diagnosed as bipolar.

As far as him living in OK, I seriously doubt it but that shouldn't matter to where his plant goes.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

An Austin native. Lol

----------


## shawnw

Elon replied to the gov tonight

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1278451464562753537

Annotation 2020-07-01 223411.jpg

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

> Elon replied to the gov tonight
> 
> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1278451464562753537
> 
> Annotation 2020-07-01 223411.jpg


He has to have a spare 2,500 jobs he can throw our way.

----------


## gopokes88

I’m telling you guys, these grand gestures are having an impact. A basic human desire is a desire to be wanted.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> I’m telling you guys, these grand gestures are having an impact. A basic human desire is a desire to be wanted.


Especially for a person like Elon

----------


## chuck5815

Sounds like these guys are actually selling a few cars here and there.

----------


## dankrutka

> An Austin native. Lol


This is well done. lol

----------


## gopokes88

Things are happening. 

https://twitter.com/roberthefnerv/st...859744262?s=21

----------


## BG918

Proposed location in East Tulsa (Wagoner County/Tulsa city limits)

----------


## chuck5815

> Things are happening. 
> 
> https://twitter.com/roberthefnerv/st...859744262?s=21


The Hef and Stitt trying to close that deal.

----------


## ChrisHayes

I won't be surprised if they're extremely close to a deal. The talks have been going on for a long time, and if you look at those picture, they already have a construction company picked out (Crossland Construction).  I don't think they would have that on there if they hadn't already finalized at least some parts of this.

----------


## dcsooner

> I won't be surprised if they're extremely close to a deal. The talks have been going on for a long time, and if you look at those picture, they already have a construction company picked out (Crossland Construction).  I don't think they would have that on there if they hadn't already finalized at least some parts of this.


I agree with the “some part of this”. Believe Tulsa may get a nice consolation prize

----------


## Bunty

> Things are happening. 
> 
> https://twitter.com/roberthefnerv/st...859744262?s=21


Where was that picture taken? On the proposed site?

I wonder how the deal is going in Austin.  I thought a school district had to be willing to give up millions for 10 years.

----------


## catch22

Even if Tulsa doesn't get this, I think Elon will throw something at Tulsa. Like a smaller factory, or a factory for one of his other companies.

----------


## jccouger

I really wonder if they dont build the Tesla Semi in Tulsa.

The Cybertruck’s demand is gonna be big, but Tesla knows if they can say its built in Texas that will convert A TON of texans to purchase one. A lot of Texans would say no just on principle of it being built in OK.

I dont think there would be any regional bias for semi demand. Thats gonna be a pure financial decision for end consumer businesses. 

It also might be hard to tool a production facility to produce both the semi & truck and thus need 2 separate facilities. I could see them building batteries & the truck in Austin and doing the semi in Tulsa.

----------


## chuck5815

Thought this was interesting, from a TulsaWorld article: 

“Meanwhile, just being a finalist for Tesla’s factory has already given Tulsa and the rest of Oklahoma more credibility with other companies, Kouplen said. His office is currently working on at least 115 economic development opportunities across the state, with many of the companies giving the state a serious look as a direct result of Tesla’s interest, he said.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tul...fddc9.amp.html

----------


## BG918

> I really wonder if they dont build the Tesla Semi in Tulsa.
> 
> The Cybertrucks demand is gonna be big, but Tesla knows if they can say its built in Texas that will convert A TON of texans to purchase one. A lot of Texans would say no just on principle of it being built in OK.
> 
> I dont think there would be any regional bias for semi demand. Thats gonna be a pure financial decision for end consumer businesses. 
> 
> It also might be hard to tool a production facility to produce both the semi & truck and thus need 2 separate facilities. I could see them building batteries & the truck in Austin and doing the semi in Tulsa.


The semi is truly the future of electric vehicles.  That is something that will complete revolutionize the trucking industry and how goods are shipped/delivered throughout the US and eventually the world.  At least until Bezos figures out how to use drones to deliver goods.  By then Oklahoma may be a leader in that as well.

----------


## ChrisHayes

> Thought this was interesting, from a TulsaWorld article: 
> 
> “Meanwhile, just being a finalist for Tesla’s factory has already given Tulsa and the rest of Oklahoma more credibility with other companies, Kouplen said. His office is currently working on at least 115 economic development opportunities across the state, with many of the companies giving the state a serious look as a direct result of Tesla’s interest, he said.”
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tul...fddc9.amp.html


That comes as no surprise. I'd like to know some names and where they're looking at. I'd still like to see I-44 from Lawton to Tulsa become a corridor of economic development. Just like 35 is from Dallas southward.

----------


## jdizzle

> That comes as no surprise. I'd like to know some names and where they're looking at. I'd still like to see I-44 from Lawton to Tulsa become a corridor of economic development. Just like 35 is from Dallas southward.


The turnpike is a barrier to entry. With that not having free travel, it is harder to sell developing along that route. It isn't impossible, by any means. But I-35 is free, whereas I-44 costs money. Which hinders, somewhat.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

> The turnpike is a barrier to entry. With that not having free travel, it is harder to sell developing along that route. It isn't impossible, by any means. But I-35 is free, whereas I-44 costs money. Which hinders, somewhat.


Totally off topic, but why is that? Why are some interstates toll and others free. What made oklahoma say let's charge here, but not there. Same with Kansas and I-35

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

> Thought this was interesting, from a TulsaWorld article: 
> 
> “Meanwhile, just being a finalist for Tesla’s factory has already given Tulsa and the rest of Oklahoma more credibility with other companies, Kouplen said. His office is currently working on at least 115 economic development opportunities across the state, with many of the companies giving the state a serious look as a direct result of Tesla’s interest, he said.”
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tul...fddc9.amp.html


Show this to the folks who said Tesla in Tulsa wouldn't help Okc. Great branding for the entire state.

----------


## BG918

> That comes as no surprise. I'd like to know some names and where they're looking at. I'd still like to see I-44 from Lawton to Tulsa become a corridor of economic development. Just like 35 is from Dallas southward.


Another potential corridor is 412 between Tulsa and Northwest Arkansas.  This site is only 90 miles to Fayetteville.

----------


## Scott5114

> Totally off topic, but why is that? Why are some interstates toll and others free. What made oklahoma say let's charge here, but not there. Same with Kansas and I-35


For the most part, the turnpikes carrying Interstates were built by the states before Interstate system funding was available. For example, the Turner Turnpike was authorized by the Legislature in 1947 and opened in 1953. The Interstate bill wasn't signed into law until 1956.

When Interstate construction began, several of the most important corridors between cities already had a turnpike. So rather than wasting money building parallel Interstates, they just modified the system to use the existing turnpikes where feasible.

----------


## Bunty

Travis County is stalling:  http://siliconhillsnews.com/2020/07/...a-gigafactory/

----------


## jdizzle

Why haven't we heard more about Oklahoma's incentives package?

----------


## dcsooner

> Why haven't we heard more about Oklahoma's incentives package?


Think Tesla holding out for Austin incentives. Best Tulsa can hope for is some level of spin off production

----------


## mugofbeer

> Why haven't we heard more about Oklahoma's incentives package?


Typically, all this is done behind closed doors and the public doesn't hear until final announcements decisions been made.  Economic development deals are often called off if incentive details go public.  They often are even handled under code names.

----------


## jonny d

Austin is being very open with theirs. I wonder if Oklahoma and Tulsa are being quiet because it doesn't really compare? Either way, Austin schools just agreed to the property tax issue, so that is possibly the final nail in the Tesla to Tulsa coffin, unfortunately.

----------


## Pete

> Typically, all this is done behind closed doors and the public doesn't hear until final announcements decisions been made.  Economic development deals are often called off if incentive details go public.  They often are even handled under code names.


And we almost never know unless we 'win' and then the arrangement has to be approved by public bodies.

Most incentive packages are negotiated and offered without citizens ever knowing the details.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> And we almost never know unless we 'win' and then the arrangement has to be approved by public bodies.
> 
> Most incentive packages are negotiated and offered without citizens ever knowing the details.


If you don't have a compliant majority of voters, the deal blows up in the face of those putting the deal together.  Amazon and NYC found this out the hard way. I'm guessing the political culture of Austin  calls for more openness and less surprises.

----------


## BG918

> Austin is being very open with theirs. I wonder if Oklahoma and Tulsa are being quiet because it doesn't really compare? Either way, Austin schools just agreed to the property tax issue, so that is possibly the final nail in the Tesla to Tulsa coffin, unfortunately.


Travis County still has to approve it this week.  I think Tesla will announce after that.  My prediction is the truck factory goes to Austin and either battery and/or semi factory goes to Tulsa.  I wouldn’t be surprised to see Tesla HQ eventually relocate to Austin.

----------


## king183

I cant figure out why were still speculating as if Tulsa is in the running for this. I realize Musk visited with the governor on a proposed site, but that was obviously for PR reasons. The Austin location was decided a while ago and the signs are all there: the various jurisdictions in Austin (e.g., school districts, counties, etc.) are going through the final motions of arranging the incentives because they had already been negotiated; Tesla has purchased a site and begun basic prep work; local politicians in Austin are feeling more comfortable letting out the word as they prep for the inevitable backlash from certain constituencies who oppose the move.

Tulsa simply isnt getting the site. I think GoPokes had it right that Tulsa will be the front runner for a separate site to be announced in a few years.

----------


## Rattle Trap

Tesla has not purchased land in Austin. While Austin is likely the frontrunner, Elon and his team have and are still legitimately considering Tulsa. I have a couple reliable sources telling me Tesla officials have been working through logistics with Tulsa officials, timeliness, etc. on a daily basis. Also, things like incentive deals are kept under secrecy until an announcement has been made. Thags how major companies loke Tesla like to operate.

So Tulsa is still very much in the running. Tesla is going to wait until Travis County approves everything else then make their decision based on all the information.

----------


## hoya

My guess is that the recent McGirt Supreme Court decision probably sinks Tulsa’s hopes.  Nobody has any idea how that is going to play out yet.

----------


## jdizzle

> My guess is that the recent McGirt Supreme Court decision probably sinks Tulsa’s hopes.  Nobody has any idea how that is going to play out yet.


Why would that affect this decision, in any way? I understood that to mean that the sole thing that changed was that crimes in those areas are now federal, not state. But I might be wrong. But it should have zero affect on this.

----------


## Rover

> Why would that affect this decision, in any way? I understood that to mean that the sole thing that changed was that crimes in those areas are now federal, not state. But I might be wrong. But it should have zero affect on this.


It appears the ruling is about jurisdictional issues.  This one just happened to be about jurisdiction regarding criminal proceedings. The ruling opens the door for all kinds of jurisdictional conflicts like taxation, codes, water rights, deeds, etc.  There is no telling where this goes.  It seems like SCOTUS said the reservation is still in existence as it was before statehood.  Ramifications are huge.  So, yes it appears it can affect corporations and economic development greatly.

----------


## jdizzle

> It appears the ruling is about jurisdictional issues.  This one just happened to be about jurisdiction regarding criminal proceedings. The ruling opens the door for all kinds of jurisdictional conflicts like taxation, codes, water rights, deeds, etc.  There is no telling where this goes.  It seems like SCOTUS said the reservation is still in existence as it was before statehood.  Ramifications are huge.  So, yes it appears it can affect corporations and economic development greatly.


Meh. I don't think it will go that far, but who knows.

----------


## Rover

> Meh. I don't think it will go that far, but who knows.


May not, but this ruling was already a surprise to the entrenched.  And all it is saying is that legal agreements should be upheld, regardless of how long ago they were made or what has happened since.  Either we believe in the ideals of a nation ruled by laws or we don't.  We don't make America great by ignoring its espoused principals or turning our backs on the wronged.

----------


## jedicurt

> May not, but this ruling was already a surprise to the entrenched.  And all it is saying is that legal agreements should be upheld, regardless of how long ago they were made or what has happened since.  Either we believe in the ideals of a nation ruled by laws or we don't.  We don't make America great by ignoring its espoused principals or turning our backs on the wronged.


lets also not forget what this might mean...  there is a good chance that if it is creek nation land, they might actually be able to offer even greater incentives.   Several of the smaller Co-Ops around the state that are on tribal lands were able to see significant tax benefits at the federal level based upon an agreement to always employ a certain number of the tribe at any given time.   There is a chance that now incentives could be offered that were never possible before and could be the thing that throws it over the to Tulsa having the better proposal.

----------


## gopokes88

SCOTUS decision isn't a factor from what I'm told.

----------


## mugofbeer

> It appears the ruling is about jurisdictional issues.  This one just happened to be about jurisdiction regarding criminal proceedings. The ruling opens the door for all kinds of jurisdictional conflicts like taxation, codes, water rights, deeds, etc.  There is no telling where this goes.  It seems like SCOTUS said the reservation is still in existence as it was before statehood.  Ramifications are huge.  So, yes it appears it can affect corporations and economic development greatly.


I don't know if what you say is based on what the OU Law Prof.,  who is apparently an authority on these matters, was quoted as saying.  He pretty much said the same thing.

----------


## HangryHippo

Its also been reported that the tribes have been working collectively on plans that address these  issues and are working to get the framework submitted for negotiation and approval.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> It appears the ruling is about jurisdictional issues.  This one just happened to be about jurisdiction regarding criminal proceedings. The ruling opens the door for all kinds of jurisdictional conflicts like taxation, codes, water rights, *deeds*, etc.  There is no telling where this goes.  It seems like SCOTUS said the reservation is still in existence as it was before statehood.  Ramifications are huge.  So, yes it appears it can affect corporations and economic development greatly.


I will agree with you on everything other than deeds and private land ownership, which this decision will not in any way affect.

----------


## Bunty

I would think Tesla to be in Tulsa would want a deal where no Oklahoma income taxes would have to be paid for a good while, since Texas does not have income taxes.  I suppose a deal like that wouldn't require the state legislature to meet to approve of it.  My guess Tesla would also want out of property taxes.

----------


## mugofbeer

Travis County voted to give Tesla $14.7 million in tax breaks.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/14/texa...ar-austin.html

----------


## mugofbeer

> I would think Tesla to be in Tulsa would want a deal where no Oklahoma income taxes would have to be paid for a good while, since Texas does not have income taxes.  I suppose a deal like that wouldn't require the state legislature to meet to approve of it.  My guess Tesla would also want out of property taxes.


Texas doesn't have an income tax but does have a gross receipts tax.  I haven't looked to see how this works exactly or if Travis County can give a break on this.  Texas property taxes are far higher than thosevin OK so l imagine this is where the bulk of the incentives would come from.  

Since OKs rate isn't as high as TX, it wouldn't have to be as large an incentive to get the same thing.

----------


## BG918

Speaking of tribal land, remember when MG was going to build a car factory on Chickasaw land in Ardmore?  And the office/engineering jobs were going to be in OKC and Norman?  

https://oklahoman.com/article/314444...al-on-holdspan

Oklahoma doesn't have a good history with auto plants.

----------


## Swake

> Speaking of tribal land, remember when MG was going to build a car factory on Chickasaw land in Ardmore?  And the office/engineering jobs were going to be in OKC and Norman?  
> 
> https://oklahoman.com/article/314444...al-on-holdspan
> 
> Oklahoma doesn't have a good history with auto plants.


Navistar IC Tulsa?

----------


## BG918

> Navistar IC Tulsa?


I was thinking along the lines of GM in OKC and Ford Glass/Zeledyne in Broken Arrow.

----------


## mugofbeer

> Speaking of tribal land, remember when MG was going to build a car factory on Chickasaw land in Ardmore?  And the office/engineering jobs were going to be in OKC and Norman?  
> 
> https://oklahoman.com/article/314444...al-on-holdspan
> 
> Oklahoma doesn't have a good history with auto plants.


Sometimes things happen for a reason.  Just like how OKC is far better off investing in MAPS rather than giving huge amounts to United Airlines or Micron Technology.  Looking back it might have been a good thing to have not built an auto plant in pre-mortgage bust 2007, especially a Chinese company.  Just like United's maintenane plant and Micron's chip plant in Utah, that auto plant may have shut down no sooner than it opened.

----------


## Anonymous.

Confirmed for Austin today in their ER call.

----------


## BG918

> Confirmed for Austin today in their ER call.


As expected.  Tulsa well-positioned for future Tesla expansion in the central U.S.

----------


## jccouger

Obviously just used Tulsa for leverage, but still cool they were a part of it

----------


## Pete

For all those California haters, they will continue to grow on the west coast as well:




> Tesla announces it'll be building its next Gigafactory in Texas, outside Austin. They'll build the Cybertruck at the plant. "We'll continue to grow in California," Elon Musk says. "This is a nice split between Texas and California."

----------


## shawnw

https://twitter.com/MikeCollierWX/st...52719380385792

----------


## shawnw

teslatulsa.jpg

----------


## Jake

At least Tulsa tried. All you can ask.

----------


## Pete

As I've said, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.


At the same time, I immediately thought of this:

----------


## Eric

This is all I can think of...(sorry... I have young kids):

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

Just say thank you very much to the Tulsa team, the economic development team and the governor," Musk said. "I was super impressed, the whole team was super impressed, and we'll for sure strongly consider Tulsa for future expansions ... down the road."


Well at least he gave a shoutout.

----------


## PhiAlpha

From everything i heard...Tulsa went from a complete after thought to legitimately being considered. Obviously we were used for leverage but that wasn’t their only reason for putting Tulsa in the mix, it was a legit contender from what my contacts have said. Just sounds like we were too late to the game and had way too much ground to make up but it was a good shot nonetheless.

On a positive note, it sounds like Tulsa, OKC, and the state in general got some great publicity out of it. I can’t remember if it was Pete or someone else who posted it but I thought I remembered hearing/seeing that inquires to relocate or open offices in OK shot up over the last few months with Tesla’s interest thought to be one of the primary drivers. Nothing but good can come out of that. Maybe Tesla will end you throwing us a bone down the road.

----------


## Teo9969

I think another key positive in all of this is that it substantiates the reach of the "Texas Triangle". It probably is still 10-20 years away, but at some point, the huge Dallas gains are going to push up into OKC in a big way, the same way that Southern CA pushes out to Phoenix and Las Vegas. If Tulsa and OKC can find enough diverse strengths and the strengthen the connection, it would be big for OK. That was the biggest reason I wanted Tulsa to land the factor. A Tesla factory in Tulsa and Paycom in OKC goes a long way to show that Oklahoma can be more than just the O&G sector.

----------


## jdizzle

It was Mike Tyson vs. a featherweight. Austin is a powerhouse, and Tulsa never truly stood a chance. Bully on them for trying, but they were never truly in the race.

----------


## Eric

Getting mentioned constantly in the news with the hottest name in Silicon Valley is nothing but good. Worse case scenario is nothing changes obviously. But this in no way hurts the area.

----------


## Pete

The entire reason that Austin is booming and considered a hotspot for young people and highly-paid jobs is because of its immediate proximity to a great university.

Same exact reason Silicon Valley evolved where it is.  And same thing for the Tech Triangle in North Carolina, Amazon in Seattle, etc.


Until Oklahoma makes legitimate investment in education, we are going to continue to finish behind these other job magnets and get call and distribution centers instead of headquarters and sophisticated manufacturing.

Tinker, fortunately, has been a great asset and just about the lone exception in the state.

----------


## dcsooner

> The entire reason that Austin is booming and considered a hotspot for young people and highly-paid jobs is because of its immediate proximity to a great university.
> 
> Same exact reason Silicon Valley evolved where it is.  And same thing for the Tech Triangle in North Carolina, Amazon in Seattle, etc.
> 
> 
> Until Oklahoma makes legitimate investment in education, we are going to continue to finish behind these other job magnets and get call and distribution centers instead of headquarters and sophisticated manufacturing.
> 
> Tinker, fortunately, has been a great asset and just about the lone exception in the state.


+1000

----------


## BG918

> The entire reason that Austin is booming and considered a hotspot for young people and highly-paid jobs is because of its immediate proximity to a great university.
> 
> Same exact reason Silicon Valley evolved where it is.  And same thing for the Tech Triangle in North Carolina, Amazon in Seattle, etc.
> 
> 
> Until Oklahoma makes legitimate investment in education, we are going to continue to finish behind these other job magnets and get call and distribution centers instead of headquarters and sophisticated manufacturing.
> 
> Tinker, fortunately, has been a great asset and just about the lone exception in the state.


Agree, with adequate funding OU has the potential to be more of an major economic driver for the OKC metro (and entire state).  Building up the research park in Norman and continuing to build up OU Medical Center are critical.  And in Tulsa building up the respective OU and OSU campuses should be a higher priority, along with building up OSUHSC and Medical Center in downtown Tulsa.  The concentration of public higher education dollars should be in Norman, OKC, Stillwater and Tulsa/

----------


## Laramie

> Agree, with adequate funding OU has the potential to be more of an major economic driver for the OKC metro (and entire state).  Building up the research park in Norman and continuing to build up OU Medical Center are critical.  And in Tulsa building up the respective OU and OSU campuses should be a higher priority, along with building up OSUHSC and Medical Center in downtown Tulsa.  The concentration of public higher education dollars should be in Norman, OKC, Stillwater and Tulsa/


Agree 100% with this concept...

The greatest challenge will be to replace the Agriculture tech mentally that has dominated Oklahoma for decades.   The technology has been there for years; problem with Oklahoma is transformation of that IT into the 21st Century cyber world where your results and outcomes are aligned with the latest cyber adaptations.

'The Oklahomans (OPUBCO)' purchase of the last color printing presses that were outdated on the date of installation is an example.  Now the Tulsa World prints OKC's daily newspaper. 

We are having some serious concerns at the OUHSC complex with cyber upgrades;  we can't function with yesterday's technology in today's cyber environment.   There needs to be a serious audit at the OUHSC with anything involving future equipment purchases.   Let's not allow Oklahoma to be 'suckered' into purchasing equipment that presents a coordination challenge with the rest of upgraded Health Science Center networks throughout the country.

----------


## gopokes88

Tulsa was very seriously considered, they got to the race on Thursday when the start was Tuesday. This was communicated to them all along, and I tried (hopefully well) to make that clear here. Which is why you never heard about what Tulsa offered incentive wise. I was told by friends that Stitt told Musk, let us know you’re coming to Tulsa and whatever Austin offers we’ll double it. It’s just details. There’s no reason to go there yet though, we need to sell you in Tulsa first.  

There were a lot of very real signs that Musk took it seriously. If he just used Tulsa as leverage, there’s no reason to come visit and sit down. The threat of considering another town would be enough. And yes they will eventually wind down California, shift the production line to Nevada and move the HQ to Austin. Austin is where Musk wants to live. That’s ultimately why Austin won. Tulsa will be the frontrunner for the next battery factory or production plant.

----------


## gopokes88

Also fun fact, the internal survey of Tesla employees they cities schools as a reason they’d be open to moving Oklahoma. (Owasso, broken arrow, Jenks, union, and ex-urban) So the narrative that Oklahoma is terrible at everything is exaggerated, plenty of worse places.

----------


## Pete

> Also fun fact, the internal survey of Tesla employees they cities schools as a reason they’d be open to moving Oklahoma. (Owasso, broken arrow, Jenks, union, and ex-urban).


Source?

Like the public schools in the Tulsa area are better than those in Austin?


And the comments were not about the suburban, independent school districts.

It was about the complete absence of a top-tier university in this state; the very thing all these great job centers are built around.


Empirically, Oklahoma ranks very near the bottom in virtually every education metric.

----------


## bhawes

Hopefully Oklahoma City get jobs from Tesla over Tulsa.

----------


## chuck5815

Sounds like they will also be building the Semi in Austin.

They figure the sales from the Semi will be very low, so might as well produce all trucks in the same location.

----------


## Jake

nvm

----------


## gopokes88

> Source?
> 
> Like the public schools in the Tulsa area are better than those in Austin?
> 
> 
> And the comments were not about the suburban, independent school districts.
> 
> It was about the complete absence of a top-tier university in this state; the very thing all these great job centers are built around.
> 
> ...


No no. Mis-phrased on my part. 

Tesla ran an internal poll in California to gauge what their employees thought of Tulsa and Austin. Austin scores better in every metric, but Tulsa far exceeded internal expectations, including schools. This slowed the process down even more. 

Agreed on universities. It was made clear to Stitt and Tulsa leaders we must improve in higher ed. But for public k-12 schools it became eh they suck everywhere with good in suburban and ex-urb. (Claremore, glenpool etc)

Ou needs to find a way to become an AAU university. They would be if not for the medical school being in OKC. But perception is reality and AAU matters.

----------


## BG918

> Ou needs to find a way to become an AAU university. They would be if not for the medical school being in OKC. But perception is reality and AAU matters.


Curious why does it matter that the med school is in OKC, the campuses are only 20 miles apart.  

I know AAU was always one of Boren’s goals, maybe Harroz can lead the charge but can only do so much without adequate state funding to supplement private donors.

----------


## dankrutka

> Agreed on universities. It was made clear to Stitt and Tulsa leaders we must improve in higher ed. But for public k-12 schools it became eh they suck everywhere with good in suburban and ex-urb. (Claremore, glenpool etc)
> 
> Ou needs to find a way to become an AAU university. They would be if not for the medical school being in OKC. But perception is reality and AAU matters.


Perception is self-fulfilling. Sorry, I try not to add education talk in these threads, but the ways people talk about "good" (suburban) and "bad" (urban) schools is so problematic. Schools grades are largely just representations of parental income and they include almost nothing related to educational quality. These ratings get spouted about like gospel and they've led to re-segregation of American schools and continued White flight and anti-Black and Brown racism. There's a ton of literature on all this. Here's a good podcast if you'd like to learn more: https://haveyouheardblog.com/the-mis...d-segregation/

----------


## G.Walker

The quality of K-12 education has nothing to do with corporations moving to a location. It has to do with incentives, cost of living, and location. People will move for jobs, thats a given.

----------


## Pete

> The quality of K-12 education has nothing to do with corporations moving to a location. It has to do with incentives, cost of living, and location. People will move for jobs, thats a given.


I would add that there isn't a huge difference between cities in terms of upper-middle-class independent school districts anyway.

----------


## gopokes88

> Curious why does it matter that the med school is in OKC, the campuses are only 20 miles apart.  
> 
> I know AAU was always one of Borens goals, maybe Harroz can lead the charge but can only do so much without adequate state funding to supplement private donors.


Medical schools MUST be on flagship campus to be considered for AAU. Period. I think Nebraska got kicked out of AAU for building a new one off campus or something similar.

----------


## HangryHippo

I dont think thats the case. Nebraskas was off their campus when they were invited, no? Ill have to look it up to confirm.

----------


## Swake

> Medical schools MUST be on flagship campus to be considered for AAU. Period. I think Nebraska got kicked out of AAU for building a new one off campus or something similar.


KU is AAU, main campus is in Lawrence, KUMC is in KCK.

----------


## gopokes88

> I don’t think that’s the case. Nebraska’s was off their campus when they were invited, no? I’ll have to look it up to confirm.


It’s why Nebraska got kicked out. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asso...n_Universities

----------


## HangryHippo

> It’s why Nebraska got kicked out. 
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asso...n_Universities


A separate medical campus was apparently part of it, but several articles also cite that research funding from the USDA wasnt counted. But as Swake said, Kansas and Missouri dont have on-campus medical schools and theyre both AAU.

----------


## Swake

> It’s why Nebraska got kicked out. 
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asso...n_Universities


Colorado - Main Campus in Boulder, medical school in Aurora
Northwestern - Main campus in Evanston, medical school in Chicago
Penn State - Main campus in State College, medical school in Hershey
Indiana - Main campus in Bloomington, medical school in Indianapolis

----------


## BG918

> Colorado - Main Campus in Boulder, medical school in Aurora
> Northwestern - Main campus in Evanston, medical school in Chicago
> Penn State - Main campus in State College, medical school in Hershey
> Indiana - Main campus in Bloomington, medical school in Indianapolis


Exactly, that obviously doesnt matter.  I believe OUs exclusion is tied to research funding.  Former President Gallogly mentioned increasing research funding as a way for OU to get invited to join the AAU.




> We need to double the amount of research that were doing today, Gallogly said in a press conference Aug. 16. Thats incredibly important because at this point in time, *thats about the only thing that keeps us from being an AAU-type institution.*
> 
> Gallogly said this initiative is part of his strategy to promote the graduate student experience at OU and better serve faculty members who conduct research. However, OU falls well behind the pack of AAU schools when it comes to funding for research.
> 
> According to the AAU website, the University of Kansas, Iowa State and University of Texas at Austin are the only schools in the Big 12 Conference in the AAU.


http://www.oudaily.com/news/ou-presi...98c7336d6.html

----------


## HOT ROD

> KU is AAU, main campus is in Lawrence, KUMC is in KCK.


Right. I've noticed most medical schools are located in the largest city of the state and not at the main campus (unless it too is in the largest city, like the UW-Seattle). Isn't U Texas Medical at the Texas Medical Center in Houston not Austin (and isn't OKC's Oklahoma Health Center a near exact smaller copy of TMC?)

Perhaps OU could try to become more of a research university (like the UW is). I think OU is probably only research for Weather (obvioulsy, OU is the biggest in the country for that) and probably some energy related, but why not go after other sectors/initiatives?

We/Seattle get tons of federal (and private) dollars for research up here for just about everything; you all know who does the Coronavirus Covid-19 models for the United States government? YEP, the University of Washington. We're also doing the first virus testing in conjunction with Kaiser Permanente. 

Just a small but very current example of perhaps research dollars quickly being utilized/authorized and why Seattle is often mentioned so positively and perhaps something OKC/OU could try to jump on. UW is always testing for this and that, researching grants for this and that, for all economic and academic sectors. ..

----------


## jccouger

Interesting perspective from the man himself on why Austin was chosen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZZTBUtmX3M

----------


## Pete

> Interesting perspective from the man himself on why Austin was chosen.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZZTBUtmX3M


He specifically said that key people that would need to move from California strongly preferred Austin.

When asked about Oklahoma:  "Wasn't a matter of who wanted Tesla.  There's a critical mass of engineering and management that are needed to create this factory.  There are a lot of smart talented people; it's not like just dropping a copy machine somewhere. The factory is the product more than the car. So it matters where these really talented people are willing to go and what is an uphill battle.  Austin was not an uphill battle; that's why we picked Austin."

Also said there will be a 3rd gigafactory but said it would likely be in the northeast U.S. in the next 4-5 years.

HQ will stay in California in the short-term; long-term "we'll see".

----------


## dcsooner

Same negatives expressed 30 years ago about Oklahoma.  lags most of the nation in higher education ranking and Q of L. People want to live in more progressive Cities/States. Oklahomas Uber conservative, poor education system and low number of college graduates. State leaders STILL don't have a program on how to grow talent in State and keep them.  Doesn't help when you have Governor and legislatures that focus on Stupid SXXT.

----------


## Pete

The governor in Texas and their legislature gets the same sort of criticism.

The common thread between Austin, the Bay Area and the Northeast are great universities which in turn yield and attract the best and brightest from all over the world.  That feeds off itself in a million different ways.

Musk specifically mentioned they floated Dallas and the team was not interested.

----------


## Ronnie Jackson

Doesn’t really explain the Nevada Gigafactory, though. There’s not an elite college within 250 miles. 

As for Austin, people like it because it has California’s weather without all of the goofy taxes and red tape.

----------


## BG918

> Doesn’t really explain the Nevada Gigafactory, though. There’s not an elite college within 250 miles. 
> 
> As for Austin, people like it because it has California’s weather without all of the goofy taxes and red tape.


Right, the other Tesla factories are in Reno and Buffalo, not exactly education centers.  And their electric truck competitor Rivian has their main factory in Normal, Illinois.  The average salary for a Tesla factory worker is only $35k with no college degree required; I imagine many of these workers would've rather been in Tulsa where their salary would go further.

----------


## Rover

> Doesnt really explain the Nevada Gigafactory, though. Theres not an elite college within 250 miles. 
> 
> As for Austin, people like it because it has Californias weather without all of the goofy taxes and red tape.


Weather in Austin isnt like California unless you are talking about Barstow, or Bakersfield. Certainly isnt like San Francisco, San Diego or west LA area.  

And taxes in Tex are high overall...just no income tax.  So, high earners not worried about property taxes etc, love to move there companies their regardless of the neg effect on the lower tier of their wage earners.  Overall, cost for working class is better in Tulsa or OKC.

----------


## Pete

> Doesn’t really explain the Nevada Gigafactory, though. There’s not an elite college within 250 miles. 
> 
> As for Austin, people like it because it has California’s weather without all of the goofy taxes and red tape.


The Nevada factory is a very different animal; only for batteries.

Not at all an apt comparison.

----------


## Pete

> Right, the other Tesla factories are in Reno and Buffalo, not exactly education centers.  And their electric truck competitor Rivian has their main factory in Normal, Illinois.  The average salary for a Tesla factory worker is only $35k with no college degree required; I imagine many of these workers would've rather been in Tulsa where their salary would go further.


Both Reno and Buffalo are battery factories.

Very, very different.


The factory workers are clearly not the primary consideration; they are always going to hire local people for that. It's the management team that matters and they were never going to choose Tulsa over Austin.


I realize people are desperate to think Tulsa was somehow competitive for this Tesla facility, but I think it's pretty clear it was never a serious consideration given Musk's comments.

----------


## jdizzle

> Same negatives expressed 30 years ago about Oklahoma.  lags most of the nation in higher education ranking and Q of L. *People want to live in more progressive Cities/States.* Oklahomas Uber conservative, poor education system and low number of college graduates. State leaders STILL don't have a program on how to grow talent in State and keep them.  Doesn't help when you have Governor and legislatures that focus on Stupid SXXT.


Texas is almost, if not more, conservative. Austin just happens to have a massive university that overrates itself, and is inflated by its size and mass.

As I said before, OKC vs. Austin is much more of a fair fight than Tulsa vs. Austin. 

But TX legislators focus on the same stuff, they just have more money and people to play with. Your argument is invalid when it comes to Texas.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Texas is almost, if not more, conservative. Austin just happens to have a massive university that overrates itself, and is inflated by its size and mass.
> 
> As I said before, OKC vs. Austin is much more of a fair fight than Tulsa vs. Austin. 
> 
> But TX legislators focus on the same stuff, they just have more money and people to play with. Your argument is invalid when it comes to Texas.


What metric are you using claiming Austin is as conservative as Tulsa? Mayor? Congressional Rep?

How is a AAU member university  overated because of size? UT is hardly overrated by any measurable criteria or academic memberships.

As far as a fair fight, Musk did not consider OKC so he did not think along your lines.

To echo Pete, Tulsa was not a viable candidate and to Musk it was an unnecessary uphill battle.

----------


## jdizzle

> What metric are you using claiming Austin is as conservative as Tulsa? Mayor? Congressional Rep?
> 
> How is a AAU member university  overated because of size? UT is hardly overrated by any measurable criteria or academic memberships.
> 
> As far as a fair fight, Musk did not consider OKC so he did not think along your lines.
> 
> To echo Pete, Tulsa was not a viable candidate and to Musk it was an unnecessary uphill battle.


I think the Governor and Tulsa did that together, and OKC did not even want to try, since they knew it was a waste of taxpayer money. Tulsa won't get as much out of this as people thought.

And again, money allows for a lot of things. UT can piss money down the drain, and still have plenty to use. None of the OK schools can do that, and that is not even counting state appropriations. Yes, OK needs to invest more in higher ed, but lets not make it seem like the state of TX is infinitely better. 

Austin is not conservative, but the state is HIGHLY conservative.

----------


## Jake

Tulsa simply doesn't have the talent pool that Austin has. 

Tulsa and the state as a whole should take Musk's comments as motivation to implement better policies to try and remedy that, instead of, "Hey, they _thought_ about coming here! I think we're doing a good job!"

If a company considers moving to your state/city as an "uphill battle," then that's not a good sign. That's why few large companies outside of call centers have set up shop in Tulsa.

----------


## jdizzle

> Tulsa simply doesn't have the talent pool that Austin has. 
> 
> Tulsa and the state as a whole should take Musk's comments as motivation to implement better policies to try and remedy that, instead of, "Hey, they _thought_ about coming here! I think we're doing a good job!"
> 
> If a company considers moving to your state/city as an "uphill battle," then that's not a good sign. That's why few large companies outside of call centers have set up shop in Tulsa.


But they never even were serious about Tulsa. They barely visited, and that was after they had made up their minds.

----------


## Jake

> But they never even were serious about Tulsa. They barely visited, and that was after they had made up their minds.


Exactly. State and city leaders should ask themselves why that was the case.

----------


## dcsooner

> Texas is almost, if not more, conservative. Austin just happens to have a massive university that overrates itself, and is inflated by its size and mass.
> 
> As I said before, OKC vs. Austin is much more of a fair fight than Tulsa vs. Austin. 
> 
> But TX legislators focus on the same stuff, they just have more money and people to play with. Your argument is invalid when it comes to Texas.


One thing I notice about some posters, no matter what deficiencies are accurately expressed about Oklahoma relative to growth and prosperity someone will inevitably find an excuse for why Oklahoma loses. We dont have mountains, ocean or something else. Accepting second place is viewed as good. People on this board stated coming in second isnt so bad. Has nothing to do with conservatism but excellence in education, infrastructure, business acumen. No one seems to want to account and focus  attention on the shortcomings addressing why Tulsa has to take out an ad asking people if they could relocate. Maybe its the high crime rate for some city its size, poor roads, or any number of other deficiencies. Growth in Tulsa has been stagnant for decades. 
 OKC couldnt compete with Austin either. Afraid Oklahoma may never change, mediocrity is too ingrained.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> I think the Governor and Tulsa did that together, and OKC did not even want to try, since they knew it was a waste of taxpayer money. Tulsa won't get as much out of this as people thought.
> 
> And again, money allows for a lot of things. UT can piss money down the drain, and still have plenty to use. None of the OK schools can do that, and that is not even counting state appropriations. Yes, OK needs to invest more in higher ed, but lets not make it seem like the state of TX is infinitely better. 
> 
> Austin is not conservative, but the state is HIGHLY conservative.


Nope. Right now Cornyn and Trump trail their opponents. Cruz was in the fight of his life two years ago. Statewide, Texas voters are not as conservative as their Oklahoma counterpoints are.

----------


## jdizzle

> One thing I notice about some posters, no matter what deficiencies are accurately expressed about Oklahoma relative to growth and prosperity someone will inevitably find an “excuse” for why Oklahoma loses. We don’t have mountains, ocean or something else. Accepting second place is viewed as good. People on this board stated coming in second isn’t so bad. Has nothing to do with conservatism but excellence in education, infrastructure, business acumen. No one seems to want to account and “focus “ attention on the shortcomings addressing “why” Tulsa has to take out an ad asking people “if” they could relocate. Maybe it’s the high crime rate for some city it’s size, poor roads, or any number of other deficiencies. Growth in Tulsa has been stagnant for decades. 
>  OKC couldn’t compete with Austin either. Afraid Oklahoma may never change, mediocrity is too ingrained.


Don't patronize me. I want change. But people saying Texas is this liberal bastion are just wrong. I know OK has deficiencies, and is not wanting to fix them.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Don't patronize me. I want change. But people saying Texas is this liberal bastion are just wrong. I know OK has deficiencies, and is not wanting to fix them.


C'mon quit with the hyperbole.

----------


## jdizzle

> C'mon quit with the hyperbole.


OKC voted out Russell. They did not vote in favor of Stitt. OKC is not at all like the rest of the state. OKC is an exception, which is why I truly think OKC would have been given a fair shake vs. Austin. OKC is near OU and close to OSU, as well as UCO. OKCU and Oklahoma Christian University also have solid schools, as well. 

Yes, Texas has benefits that OK will never have. But saying that because the whole state is conservative does not mean OKC is. Same with you and Austin. A large, large majority of legislators in TX are still GOP.

Sorry for going political, but it was introduced by others. And I am not saying that OK is doing well, either. They are held back by 23rd St. and OKC is held back more than any other city in America, I would argue because of it.

----------


## Pete

The biggest reason you only see slow, incremental change in OKC or anywhere in the state is because we don't have many people moving here from other places.

This is a force that completely builds on itself and for a city and state our size, we have very little of it.

This is, again, another huge benefit of having a great university.  OU gets a lot of kids from the Dallas area and that's about it.  When I lived in California and took classes at Pepperdine, UCLA and USC, the people were literally from all over the globe; it was amazing and fascinating and motivating and I loved it.  In fact, the really great students in California high schools tended to go to Ivy League schools.  East Coast and Midwestern kids came in droves to Stanford, Berkeley and the rest.

So, you get this massive influence from all over and because the job markets are so good, a lot of them stay.  And so it goes, year after year.

You get that same thing in Austin and Boston and the NC Tech Triangle.


We are doing way better than we did and more than anyone I appreciate that, but it's all from a very low basis.

To make a big leap, you need a lot of outside people and ideas and then the money that flows from all that.

And, I'll say this again, the best way to make that happen is to have at least one great university and Oklahoma has exactly zero that are anywhere close to that standard.

----------


## dcsooner

> *the biggest reason you only see slow, incremental change in okc or anywhere in the state is because we don't have many people moving here from other places.
> *
> this is a force that completely builds on itself and for a city and state our size, we have very little of it.
> 
> This is, again, another huge benefit of having a great university.  Ou gets a lot of kids from the dallas area and that's about it.  When i lived in california and took classes at pepperdine, ucla and usc, the people were literally from all over the globe; it was amazing and fascinating and motivating and i loved it.  In fact, the really great students in california high schools tended to go to ivy league schools.  East coast and midwestern kids came in droves to stanford, berkeley and the rest.
> 
> So, you get this massive influence from all over and because the job markets are so good, a lot of them stay.  And so it goes, year after year.
> 
> You get that same thing in austin and boston and the nc tech triangle.
> ...


*
*


+1

----------


## Anonymous.

Imagine a _cold_ winter day in OKC being around 40 degrees. Imagine OU and the capitol buildings all being downtown. Imagine the Oklahoma River being an actual flowing, recreational river.

You just imagined a discounted Austin, TX.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> Imagine a _cold_ winter day in OKC being around 40 degrees. Imagine OU and the capitol buildings all being downtown. Imagine the Oklahoma River being an actual flowing, recreational river.
> 
> You just imagined a discounted Austin, TX.


Except OKC is double the square miles. We might actually be able to fit all that!  :Smile:

----------


## GoGators

> Imagine a _cold_ winter day in OKC being around 40 degrees. Imagine OU and the capitol buildings all being downtown. Imagine the Oklahoma River being an actual flowing, recreational river.
> 
> You just imagined a discounted Austin, TX.


I've mentioned this before but OKC not putting the capitol grounds downtown is one of the all time mistakes made by this city.  The rest are hypothetical scenarios but your'e absolutely correct. Imagine how far along the city would be if you combined the OU and OSU campuses and put them in downtown OKC. That would be comparable with what Austin has with its UT student population. Just an unreal advantage.

----------


## BG918

> But they never even were serious about Tulsa. They barely visited, and that was after they had made up their minds.


How do you know that?  They scouted dozens of locations and narrowed them down to Austin, Tulsa and Nashville.  Austin and Tulsa were the two finalists.  Texas was a finalist for Gigafactory 1 that ultimately went to Reno so Tesla was more familiar with them than they were Tulsa or Nashville.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> I've mentioned this before but OKC not putting the capitol grounds downtown is one of the all time mistakes made by this city.  The rest are hypothetical scenarios but your'e absolutely correct. Imagine how far along the city would be if you combined the OU and OSU campuses and put them in downtown OKC. That would be comparable with what Austin has with its UT student population. Just an unreal advantage.


Thinking about most of the states I'm familiar with, Texas is the exception to the rule of the flagship University not being in the state capital. Ohio State is another.

----------


## Swake

> Thinking about most of the states I'm familiar with, Texas is the exception to the rule of the flagship University not being in the state capital. Ohio State is another.


Florida, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Utah, New Mexico, New York, Hawaii, Louisiana also have flagship universities in the capital. Most are like OKC with the college being in a suburb or nearby town.

----------


## mugofbeer

> Florida, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Utah, New Mexico, New York, Hawaii, Louisiana also have flagship universities in the capital. Most are like OKC with the college being in a suburb or nearby town.


Washington, Georgia too.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Florida, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Utah, New Mexico, New York, Hawaii, Louisiana also have flagship universities in the capital. Most are like OKC with the college being in a suburb or nearby town.


University of Florida- Gainsville. Capital Tallahassee.
NY has no flagship . SUNY Buffalo is unofficial flagship. Capital is Albany.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Washington, Georgia too.


University of Georgia-Athens. Capital Atlanta

----------


## GoGators

> University of Florida- Gainsville. Capital Tallahassee.
> NY has no flagship . SUNY Buffalo is unofficial flagship. Capital is Albany.


New Mexico’s flagship is in Albuquerque.

----------


## Swake

> University of Florida- Gainsville. Capital Tallahassee.
> NY has no flagship . SUNY Buffalo is unofficial flagship. Capital is Albany.


SUNY has a flagship in Albany. FSU is in Tallahassee.

----------


## Swake

> New Mexico’s flagship is in Albuquerque.


My mistake, I always thing ABQ is the capital.

----------


## Swake

> University of Georgia-Athens. Capital Atlanta


Nothing in Olympia I can think of, but Georgia Tech certainly is a Flagship University.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Nothing in Olympia I can think of, but Georgia Tech certainly is a Flagship University.


1flagship per state, which I define as "The University of..."

----------


## Jersey Boss

> SUNY has a flagship in Albany. FSU is in Tallahassee.


SUNY Buffalo has more endowments,more funding and students. SUNY Albany is not Buffalo. That's why Tesla and Panasonic solar cell facilities are there.
Just like I don't consider OSU(Oklahoma)the flagship, neither do I consider FSU to be THE flagship in Florida.

----------


## BG918

> 1flagship per state, which I define as "The University of..."


Correct OU is the flagship university in Oklahoma.  TU is the highest ranked university in the state at #121 (per US News & World Report) though OU is not far behind at #132.  OSU is way behind at #192.

----------


## jonny d

> Correct OU is the flagship university in Oklahoma.  TU is the highest ranked university in the state at #121 (per US News & World Report) though OU is not far behind at #132.  OSU is way behind at #192.


TU can't really be in this conversation, since they are private. But yes, OSU needs to step their game up.

----------


## Pete

> TU can't really be in this conversation, since they are private.


More than private (almost all the Ivy League schools, Duke, Stanford, etc. are not public) is that Tulsa U. is quite small.  Not much bigger than Oral Roberts or OCU.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

That chart really makes it look like college enrollment is down from 2015 to 2020. Not good for a lot of the smaller schools.

----------


## jdizzle

> That chart really makes it look like college enrollment is down from 2015 to 2020. Not good for a lot of the smaller schools.


It's down everywhere, pretty much. Not just Oklahoma, either.

----------


## shawnw

I could swear UCO had ~25K when I attended in the 90s

----------


## PhiAlpha

> That chart really makes it look like college enrollment is down from 2015 to 2020. Not good for a lot of the smaller schools.


Yeah I’m forgetting where I read about it but several articles have been written over the last few years about declining attendance issues at small schools around the country. I want to say that several people have predicted that something like 30% of small-midsized schools are at risk of closing over the next 20 years (I didn’t look it up so the numbers could be completely off but the point was that a significant number of colleges face a very uncertain not to distance future). I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Covid is going to compound and hasten funding/attendance issues for those those schools.

----------


## PaddyShack

> More than private (almost all the Ivy League schools, Duke, Stanford, etc. are not public) is that Tulsa U. is quite small.  Not much bigger than Oral Roberts or OCU.


Where did you find this chart, Pete?

----------


## Pete

> Where did you find this chart, Pete?


https://www.stateuniversity.com/rank...l_rank/OK.html

----------


## PaddyShack

> https://www.stateuniversity.com/rank...l_rank/OK.html


Thank you

----------


## Bunty

> TU can't really be in this conversation, since they are private. But yes, OSU needs to step their game up.


Yet more rich people need to stand up to fund more new academic buildings at OSU.  The new McKnight Center was a big step up for attracting top grade performance arts, but it's not rocket science.

----------


## Bunty

> That chart really makes it look like college enrollment is down from 2015 to 2020. Not good for a lot of the smaller schools.


At least OU-Norman fans can take great heart that OSU-Stillwater is no longer threatening to out enroll it. I would venture to guess that agriculture classes are down at OSU, reflecting the decline of rural Oklahoma.

A great  college town should be able to attract major industries.  Stillwater hasn't been able to do that, aside from Asco Aerospace.

----------


## BG918

> At least OU-Norman fans can take great heart that OSU-Stillwater is no longer threatening to out enroll it. I would venture to guess that agriculture classes are down at OSU, reflecting the decline of rural Oklahoma.
> 
> A great  college town should be able to attract major industries.  Stillwater hasn't been able to do that, aside from Asco.


Which is why OSU should focus more on growing its urban campus in Tulsa along with research facilities and health sciences programs at OSUHSC.  Tulsa is a key part of elevating OSU.

----------


## dankrutka

> Correct OU is the flagship university in Oklahoma.  TU is the highest ranked university in the state at #121 (per US News & World Report) though OU is not far behind at #132.  OSU is way behind at #192.


I've said this a lot of time on this board, but using these rankings like this (e.g., this program is #121 and this one is #192) is silly. It's amazing how if you give people a number, they just believe it. The criteria for these rankings are have little do with educational quality.

(if you're wondering how I know, I run a program that ranks in the top 15 in the country... the methodology is neither valid nor reliable.)

----------


## mugofbeer

> Nothing in Olympia I can think of, but Georgia Tech certainly is a Flagship University.


Working with my kid's schooling didn't rub off.  I forgot Olympia's the capitol, not Seattle.

----------


## Swake

> More than private (almost all the Ivy League schools, Duke, Stanford, etc. are not public) is that Tulsa U. is quite small.  Not much bigger than Oral Roberts or OCU.


TU is a completely different school than ORU or OCU.

Endowments:
ORU $37.8 Million
OCU $95 Million
TU $1.114 Billion

ORU and OCU are the kinds of schools that may well not survive Covid.

----------


## Teo9969

> TU is a completely different school than ORU or OCU.
> 
> Endowments:
> ORU $37.8 Million
> OCU $95 Million
> TU $1.114 Billion
> 
> ORU and OCU are the kinds of schools that may well not survive Covid.


I would think OCU is pretty safe given its niche in Oklahoma higher education. Not a school with massive donors, but it is visible nationally in the Performing Arts community - I suppose it could become a Conservatory for Performing Arts?

----------


## gopokes88

> I would think OCU is pretty safe given its niche in Oklahoma higher education. Not a school with massive donors, but it is visible nationally in the Performing Arts community - I suppose it could become a Conservatory for Performing Arts?


Exactly. It's pretty well regarded in the PA, it'll be fine. You'd be surprised how many kids come from all over for the PA program.

While the endowment and enrollment are lower so is their operating expenses.

----------


## BG918

> TU is a completely different school than ORU or OCU.
> 
> Endowments:
> ORU $37.8 Million
> OCU $95 Million
> TU $1.114 Billion
> 
> ORU and OCU are the kinds of schools that may well not survive Covid.


TU is also well-known for its engineering programs, unfortunately it is just not a very large school.  If it could be closer to size to Vanderbilt or TCU it would have a much larger impact as an economic driver in Tulsa

----------


## Edmond Hausfrau

> TU is also well-known for its engineering programs, unfortunately it is just not a very large school.  If it could be closer to size to Vanderbilt or TCU it would have a much larger impact as an economic driver in Tulsa


TU has also taken some hits in recent years.
https://tucollegian.org/pprc-announc...partment-cuts/

----------


## dankrutka

> TU has also taken some hits in recent years.
> https://tucollegian.org/pprc-announc...partment-cuts/


TU's education program also lost accreditation, which is really bad. Basically, all their education students had to transfer. It's the only school I've ever heard of that happening too.

----------


## Thomas Vu

> TU's education program also lost accreditation, which is really bad. Basically, all their education students had to transfer. It's the only school I've ever heard of that happening too.


For education, or in general?  I thought ORU lost accreditation in some programs.

----------


## Teo9969

> TU's education program also lost accreditation, which is really bad. Basically, all their education students had to transfer. It's the only school I've ever heard of that happening too.


Holy crap, what??? How do you let that happen as a...plot twist...higher-education institution?

----------


## Teo9969

> Exactly. It's pretty well regarded in the PA, it'll be fine. You'd be surprised how many kids come from all over for the PA program.
> 
> While the endowment and enrollment are lower so is their operating expenses.


As a Bass School of Music alum I can tell you, at least when I was there 10-15 years ago, there were considerably more non-Oklahomans than Oklahomans in the Music and Dance programs. In the music school there was also a good contingent of international students. I doubt that has changed.

----------


## dclark87

> TU is a completely different school than ORU or OCU.
> 
> Endowments:
> ORU $37.8 Million
> OCU $95 Million
> TU $1.114 Billion
> 
> ORU and OCU are the kinds of schools that may well not survive Covid.


I think the Greens would step in with a few $100MM if money gets tight at ORU.

----------


## Edmond Hausfrau

> TU is a completely different school than ORU or OCU.
> 
> Endowments:
> ORU $37.8 Million
> OCU $95 Million
> TU $1.114 Billion
> 
> ORU and OCU are the kinds of schools that may well not survive Covid.


TU must be blowing through that endowment.
https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/tu...mpression=true

----------


## Rover

The issue isnt TU vs OCU, it is TU vs U of Texas at over $4 Billion, and other private schools nearby.  If yo add OU at $1.8 Billion, OSU at $750, TU at $1.4 B, AND THROW IN OCU, it still doesnt equal just the Univ of Texas, which is smaller than T A&M.

----------


## jonny d

> The issue isn’t TU vs OCU, it is TU vs U of Texas at over $4 Billion, and other private schools nearby.  If yo add OU at $1.8 Billion, OSU at $750, TU at $1.4 B, AND THROW IN OCU, it still doesn’t equal just the Univ of Texas, which is smaller than T A&M.


Well of course not. UT has 60,000 kids a year, and is in a state with 8 times the population of Oklahoma. Comparing a small grape to a vine right here.

----------


## Rover

> Well of course not. UT has 60,000 kids a year, and is in a state with 8 times the population of Oklahoma. Comparing a small grape to a vine right here.


Come on .... SMU has a bigger endowment than any OK school. Its about commitment to excellence and education as a core value.

----------


## dankrutka

> For education, or in general?  I thought ORU lost accreditation in some programs.


Education department: https://www.kjrh.com/sports/college-...-accreditation

----------


## BG918

> Education department: https://www.kjrh.com/sports/college-...-accreditation


That article is from 2017.  Accreditation was restored the following year.   https://utulsa.edu/education-accreditation-update/

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

Nm

----------


## dankrutka

> Nm


That's what Elon said.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

Telsa Service Center in Tulsa opens the 28th. Some people have already gotten notice for their first appointment.

----------


## gopokes88

Musk moving to Texas. Step 1 complete. 

https://www.theverge.com/platform/am...mpression=true

The only reason Tulsa didn’t win is because Musk wants to live in Austin. The pitch evolved into convince musk to live in Tulsa. He told Stitt he wanted to try living in Austin and therefore the factory was going to Austin, but Tulsa is on a very very short list for future expansion.

----------


## Rover

> Musk moving to Texas. Step 1 complete. 
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/platform/am...mpression=true
> 
> The only reason Tulsa didn’t win is because Musk wants to live in Austin. The pitch evolved into convince musk to live in Tulsa. He told Stitt he wanted to try living in Austin and therefore the factory was going to Austin, but Tulsa is on a very very short list for future expansion.


I know people involved in the Austin site.  Your explanation is incorrect.  Tulsa lost for lots of reason.  Sorry Tulsa, you just dont stack up well to Austin.

----------


## SouthOfTheVillage

> I know people involved in the Austin site.  Your explanation is incorrect.  Tulsa lost for lots of reason.  Sorry Tulsa, you just don’t stack up well to Austin.


My people are basically in agreement with gopokes’s people. This was much closer than your people might otherwise suggest.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> My people are basically in agreement with gopokes’s people. This was much closer than your people might otherwise suggest.


Same

----------


## Teo9969

> Same


Are these people Oklahoma people or blue-blooded Texas people?

----------


## Rover

> My people are basically in agreement with gopokes’s people. This was much closer than your people might otherwise suggest.


Since I know my sources involvement in the project, Ill just stick with my information.  Sorry it hurts Tulsans feelings.

----------


## shavethewhales

I don't doubt that there were many reasons we didn't win this bid, and I didn't really expect us to, but the attention was exciting. If it weren't for the pandemic I'd be really upset that we didn't roll the momentum into something else. It is silly that we laid out the red carpet so hard for Musk, but haven't done the same for anyone else. Let's go nuts getting some smaller manufacturers to come to town like Greenheck and Milo's Tea. We don't need the next big flashy thing, just something to keep the ball rolling!

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Since I know my source’s involvement in the project, I’ll just stick with my information.  Sorry it hurts Tulsan’s feelings.


These two articles do lend credance  to your position on the viability of  the future of Tesla and Tulsa.

Tesla To Build a Battery Factory at Giga Texas | Torque News
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tor...giga-texas/amp

Tesla Hiring Battery Engineers In North Carolina & Semi Truck Engineers In Nevada
https://www.google.com/amp/s/cleante...in-nevada/amp/

----------


## dcsooner

> These two articles do lend credance  to your position on the viability of  the future of Tesla and Tulsa.
> 
> Tesla To Build a Battery Factory at Giga Texas | Torque News
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tor...giga-texas/amp
> 
> Tesla Hiring Battery Engineers In North Carolina & Semi Truck Engineers In Nevada
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/cleante...in-nevada/amp/


I will say Oklahoma does not compete well with ANYPLACE that has an educated populace and competent State Government. Not to mention the racist/bigoted attitude of the population.  Just no compelling reason to locate high tech,HW and SW  engineering in the State. I know ,Tinker but that is Government (socialist) driven. Include the 2d or 3rd tier higher education system and you see why the State won't reach 4M in 2020 while other States separate from Ok (Oregon/Colo, Ky, La)  ) or gain (UT) on OK. Not growing not going anywhere

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Its so disheartening to see major companies like Tesla not give Oklahoma the time of day. Sure we land small tech firms or call centers we are missing out on so much like Amazon taking their air services to Indiana, or Tesla opening major production facilities, things like Space X, BMW production facility(lots of European car companies are building new production plants in the states), etc.

This state just doesnt seem to care about doing what it really takes. So I guess well have to simply wait for the seemingly inevitable that Texas will start to experience some of the problems California is that has led to the exodus to nearby states. I see that happening with Oklahoma.

----------


## Bellaboo

> Include the 2d or 3rd tier higher education system and you see why the State won't reach 4M in 2020 while other States separate from Ok (Oregon/Colo, Ky, La)  ) or gain (UT) on OK. Not growing not going anywhere


HaHa.  I'd guess we might be closer to 4M than you think if all the illegals were counted.

----------


## dcsooner

> HaHa.  I'd guess we might be closer to 4M than you think if all the illegals were counted.


YOU would make a joke out of stagnation. Par for the course

----------


## Bunty

> I will say Oklahoma does not compete well with ANYPLACE that has an educated populace and competent State Government. Not to mention the racist/bigoted attitude of the population.  Just no compelling reason to locate high tech,HW and SW  engineering in the State. I know ,Tinker but that is Government (socialist) driven. Include the 2d or 3rd tier higher education system and you see why the State won't reach 4M in 2020 while other States separate from Ok (Oregon/Colo, Ky, La)  ) or gain (UT) on OK. Not growing not going anywhere


It's still worth noting that it was Tulsa than landed the no. 2 position of all cities rather than a city from one of the states you mentioned.    Oklahoma City and Tulsa needs to be focused on making them more desirable places for business than on the state as a whole.

I suppose it wouldn't help much for Oklahoma to try to attract low paying companies, since it also has Texas to compete with on that as well.  And Kansas.

----------


## Rover

> It's still worth noting that it was Tulsa than landed the no. 2 position of all cities rather than a city from one of the states you mentioned.    Oklahoma City and Tulsa needs to be focused on making them more desirable places for business than on the state as a whole.
> 
> I suppose it wouldn't help much for Oklahoma to try to attract low paying companies, since it also has Texas to compete with on that as well.  And Kansas.


OK and Tulsa were willing to engage in promises of give-aways.  Other cities could have competed and do for other things.  Tulsa was and is always going to lose to Austin.  Austin has brain and capital resources Tulsa does not.  Oklahomans have never championed education or higher skills and will lose to those who do value them.  

OKC and Tulsa cannot be separate from OK.  Oklahoma laws take precedence and as long as it is ruled by it's current group it will stay at least two steps behind its competitors for economic development.  We have determined that we will be a follower and not a leader society here.

----------


## SouthOfTheVillage

> YOU would make a joke out of stagnation. Par for the course


Stagnation? OKCs unemployment rate was below 3% before the CV broke out.

Seems like you just dont like OKC.

----------


## BG918

> Stagnation? OKC’s unemployment rate was below 3% before the CV broke out.
> 
> Seems like you just don’t like OKC.


Oklahoma’s population also grew by over 20k from July 2019 to July 2020.  Not high growth but far from stagnant.  The following states lost population during the same time period: CT, NJ, NY, MA, PA, VT, WV, IL, MI, OH, AK, CA, HI, LA & MS.

And for a manufacturing operation like Tesla Oklahoma is absolutely on the same level as Texas.  Tulsa will likely have a Tesla operation of some kind within the next decade, possibly sooner.  Tulsa specifically is very well-suited for advanced manufacturing, it’s already a global leader in aerospace, oil & gas machinery and heat exchanger manufacturing and through programs at TU, TCC, Tulsa Tech and Tulsa Welding School has a skilled manufacturing workforce.

----------


## Bellaboo

> YOU would make a joke out of stagnation. Par for the course


I see you are up to your old crap again. Listen, I've got 5 doctors in my family, so were educated.

But I get the drift.

----------


## HangryHippo

> ...Listen, I've got 5 doctors in my family, so were educated.


Irony abounds, ha.

----------


## Pete

As part of an open records request, an article in today's Oklahoman has this tidbit:




> In response to a June 2020 request by Kouplen to arrange a meeting between Musk and the governor, Musk responded: "Out of respect, sure. The fundamental problem I have is getting people to move out of California. Austin (Texas) is one of the few places to which they will move."


Sean Koupen is Oklahoma's secretary of workforce development.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

Makes sense honestly. Austin has nice weather pretty much year round and a young population. I dont think we see a lot of young people clamoring to move to Oklahoma.

----------


## Jersey Boss

"In response to a June 2020 request by Kouplen to arrange a meeting between Musk and the governor, Musk responded: "Out of respect, sure. The fundamental problem I have is getting people to move out of California. Austin (Texas) is one of the few places to which they will move."

Apparently the information Rover had was more credible than the info of others "knowing from their source" that it was close between Tulsa and Austin.

----------


## Bunty

> Makes sense honestly. Austin has nice weather pretty much year round and a young population. I dont think we see a lot of young people clamoring to move to Oklahoma.


I don't think hundreds throughout the summer is nice weather and the freak cold spell in Feb. better not repeat itself next winter.  

Colorado is great for mountain scenery, skiing and is fast growing, yet, didn't attract Tesla.

Oklahoma may be more attractive to companies from the northern states, such as New York.

----------


## BG918

> Makes sense honestly. Austin has nice weather pretty much year round and a young population. I dont think we see a lot of young people clamoring to move to Oklahoma.


Just wait until they try to rent an apartment or, God forbid, buy a house.  Then they make rethink that decision.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Just wait until they try to rent an apartment or, God forbid, buy a house.  Then they make rethink that decision.


Lol they came from California. High rent or even taxes isn’t in their vocabulary.

----------


## Pete

There is absolutely no way they seriously considered Tulsa.

Musk met with Stitt as a courtesy and probably a bargaining tool.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

They should consider OKC for a plant.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> They should consider OKC for a plant.


OKC is still Oklahoma. Ain't happening for Musk.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Just wait until they try to rent an apartment or, God forbid, buy a house.  Then they make rethink that decision.


Comparing Austin to California. Not Austin to OKC.

----------


## Bunty

> Just wait until they try to rent an apartment or, God forbid, buy a house.  Then they make rethink that decision.


How do you know house prices in Austin are not lower than in California?

----------


## BG918

> Lol they came from California. High rent or even taxes isn’t in their vocabulary.


True for the engineers coming from California.  But the majority of the plant workers are hourly employees.  I would think housing affordability would be something they would be interested in, but maybe Austin is just so great no one cares.

----------


## Pete

The Tesla plant is in Fremont, which is right in the middle of the Bay Area and one of the most expensive places to live in the entire country.

Even well-paid people usually rent.


It's hard to comprehend the difference, so I'll give you an example from my personal experience.  I lived in Southern Cal for 15 years before I bought a house and I was a Senior VP for a large financial institution and made almost $300K/year.

And even then, I had to live an hour from downtown.  There was nothing I could come close to affording within 20 miles of the ocean.

I bought a nicer house here, near Penn Square (one of the better areas of town), completely remodeled top to bottom.  Bigger than my California house, nicer and on a yard triple the size.  And I paid almost exactly 1/4 of what I sold my house for in Cali.  And remember, this is way outside of L.A.; way past the San Fernando Valley.

As more perspective, for almost 10 years I was the head coach of a huge triathlon program on the west side of L.A.  I coached over 500 athletes and almost all of them were highly educated.  Ivy League degrees, doctors, attorneys, MBA's, etc.  And only a handful of them owned a home of any sort, let alone a house.

I have many friends in the Bay Area and interviewed for several jobs there, and it's even worse.




I mean this with all due respect, but until you've lived out there and had to deal with the housing market for a long time, it's very hard to comprehend how difficult it is to live in a decent, well-located place.  And for a factory worker, they could almost never sniff owning a home of any type.

The ritzy parts of Austin are no doubt expensive but this factory is going to be outside of town and I just looked on Zillow in that immediate area and found a very nice 3bd 2ba house for $250K.  That would be a million-dollar+ house in the Bay Area.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

Having friends who lived in SF and around the Bay. Dear lord. The rent was insane. I was jealous of their tech jobs but I couldn’t imagine having a family there. In Austin you can or live in a suburb around there. It is a good move for Tesla. Plus the tax breaks of course.

----------


## BG918

> Having friends who lived in SF and around the Bay. Dear lord. The rent was insane. I was jealous of their tech jobs but I couldn’t imagine having a family there. In Austin you can or live in a suburb around there. It is a good move for Tesla. Plus the tax breaks of course.


Big difference in Austin and its suburbs to the east.  You can still find affordable housing in those areas, and many of the hourly workers would probably be living in those areas.  But the city itself and areas to the west would be out of reach for most of these workers.  There will be a number of high salary engineers and executives that could certainly afford it, and that’s who Musk was likely referring to when he said Austin is the only place outside California where they would want to move.

----------


## soonerguru

> As part of an open records request, an article in today's Oklahoman has this tidbit:
> 
> 
> 
> Sean Koupen is Oklahoma's secretary of workforce development.


Bwahaha I saw that. The people who are charged with our economic development for the state in the current administration are throwing darts at a wall, unaware or unwilling to make the policy changes and education investments necessary to begin to attract a company like Tesla. They literally still think low wages and low taxes will attract Tier One companies.

----------


## Pete

^

The very rich people that make the decisions first consider where THEY want to live and then where they can get their rich execs to move and then the special talent they will need to hire.

It doesn't matter the cost for rank-and-file employees if you can't clear those hurdles.

This has been demonstrated over and over.

----------


## king183

> There is absolutely no way they seriously considered Tulsa.
> 
> Musk met with Stitt as a courtesy and probably a bargaining tool.


Exactly! I'm one of the biggest boosters of Oklahoma/OKC you'll meet, but it's important to keep the ol' Glasses of Reality firmly affixed to our faces. It was obvious that Tulsa was never a true consideration for a great number of reasons.

I can sympathize with Musk, though not as I wish--as a billionaire. I'm in the process of trying to hire executive level staff for very good jobs with a very good company in OKC and it is EXTREMELY difficult to convince people to move here from out of state, even with my patented spiel.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> Exactly! I'm one of the biggest boosters of Oklahoma/OKC you'll meet, but it's important to keep the ol' Glasses of Reality firmly affixed to our faces. It was obvious that Tulsa was never a true consideration for a great number of reasons.
> 
> I can sympathize with Musk, though not as I wish--as a billionaire. I'm in the process of trying to hire executive level staff for very good jobs with a very good company in OKC and it is EXTREMELY difficult to convince people to move here from out of state, even with my patented spiel.


Just curious, do they give exact reasons?

----------


## OkiePoke

In line with why people don't want to move here...

https://www.ocpathink.org/post/payco...-tax-increases

----------


## Pete

> In line with why people don't want to move here...
> 
> https://www.ocpathink.org/post/payco...-tax-increases


From that article where Paycom CEO Richison was advocating against tax cuts:




> Richison wrote that Paycom employees and potential employees were “concerned about sending their children to our schools, colleges and universities,” and cited issues such as “four day school weeks.” The letter indicated that tax increases were required to address those challenges.



Richison also wrote a letter to Stitt imploring him to implement stronger preventative measures around Covid-19.

https://www.kosu.org/post/face-covid...-stitt-do-more

----------


## shavethewhales

I guess I thought this facility was going to be more production focused. I never expected a lot of the higher up jobs to come to Tulsa. 

We so badly need better educational resources in Tulsa to build our own workforces. The deal to allow OSU Tulsa to expand could be a huge, but it will take time to implement and there are still road blocks. TU keeps falling apart and can't seem to decide what it wants to be. ORU is... ORU... 

I don't think this state will ever have enough billionaire philanthropists to catch up to the rest of the nation, and I don't see our culture changing anytime soon to adopt the priorities that we need.

----------


## BG918

> I guess I thought this facility was going to be more production focused. I never expected a lot of the higher up jobs to come to Tulsa..


The factory is mostly production focused.  But there are engineering and executive positions, especially if the HQ eventually moves there.  If it was just factory jobs I would think Tulsas workforce would be more than adequate and likely better than Austin with the existing aerospace/O&G/heat exchanger manufacturing base in Tulsa along with Tulsa Tech/TCC.

----------


## GoGators

> In line with why people don't want to move here...
> 
> https://www.ocpathink.org/post/payco...-tax-increases


Oklahoma is like a hotel with a roach infestation. Instead of paying for an exterminator they think lowering the room rate from 40 dollars a night to 38 dollars a night will fix the problem.  They then scratch their heads and wonder why the guests who stay at the Ritz-Carlton never want to book a night at their 38 dollar a night roach infested hotel.

Oklahoma has to stop pushing for tax cuts and start pushing for education funding.

----------


## king183

> Just curious, do they give exact reasons?


More often than not, they just don't know much about Oklahoma, so they have no idea why Oklahoma might be a good place to live. In other words, there is no appeal to them. This doesn't mean they view the state negatively--it's just that it never enters their mind as a place to consider living.  Other than that, education is definitely a big one. Most of the people I'm hiring have families, so they immediately look into schools here and they will ask me about schools. I can sweet talk the benefits of Oklahoma with the best of them, but I can't talk the state out of it's educational deficits--and few parents of school aged children are going to move their kids to a state with a 4 day school week or failing schools, even if I offer them a salary of $300k. It's a major problem.

----------


## Bunty

> Oklahoma is like a hotel with a roach infestation. Instead of paying for an exterminator they think lowering the room rate from 40 dollars a night to 38 dollars a night will fix the problem.  They then scratch their heads and wonder why the guests who stay at the Ritz-Carlton never want to book a night at their 38 dollar a night roach infested hotel.
> 
> Oklahoma has to stop pushing for tax cuts and start pushing for education funding.


So, other states that support education better, such as Kansas and Iowa are not growing as much in population as Oklahoma.  So it seems Oklahoma would grow even faster in population than those states if only it would support education better.  

At any rate, wealthy alumni need to continue to support higher education in Oklahoma, since the state legislature won't do it.  OSU/Stillwater in recent years has quite fabulously  benefited from the donations of wealthy alumni.  For starters, the new state of the art  $60,000,000 McKnight Center For the Performing Arts.  It has raised the quality of living in Stillwater,  and it's highly unfortunate that Stillwater can't attract any major new industry as a result and despite having daily passenger flight service to DFW.

Tulsa has benefited well from the donations of the wealthy, so it could have something extra special, like the new world class Gathering Place park.   Hopefully, Tulsa will continue to benefit in that way.  Surely,  the wealthy in OKC should make massive donations for iconic projects to make OKC a better place to live. The tax supported Scissortail Park is nice, though.

----------


## Anonymous.

Californians from the valley do not like cold weather. I know the original comparison is Tulsa vs Austin, but I will use OKC, it is similar. 

Austin's lowest average temperature for any month is not even below 40. Whereas Oklahoma City has 3 months of lows that average below freezing. That is a massive difference with similar summer seasons. Oh and wind and humidity factor is significantly different in both areas. Austin's higher humidity means winter feels warmer than the same temperatures in a drier OKC.

Bottomline, their weather is better for people that do not like cold. Which is most people that live in Cali. Then add all the other controllable factors like Education, Arts, Entertainment, Taxes, Job types. etc.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

^^^ are you talking about SF valley or the Central Valley because it can get pretty chilly in the Central Valley.

----------


## Rover

> So, other states that support education better, such as Kansas and Iowa are not growing as much in population as Oklahoma.  So it seems Oklahoma would grow even faster in population than those states if only it would support education better.  
> 
> At any rate, wealthy alumni need to continue to support higher education in Oklahoma, since the state legislature won't do it.  OSU/Stillwater in recent years has quite fabulously  benefited from the donations of wealthy alumni.  For starters, the new state of the art  $60,000,000 McKnight Center For the Performing Arts.  It has raised the quality of living in Stillwater,  and it's highly unfortunate that Stillwater can't attract any major new industry as a result and despite having daily passenger flight service to DFW.
> 
> Tulsa has benefited well from the donations of the wealthy, so it could have something extra special, like the new world class Gathering Place park.   Hopefully, Tulsa will continue to benefit in that way.  Surely,  the wealthy in OKC should make massive donations for iconic projects to make OKC a better place to live. The tax supported Scissortail Park is nice, though.


The education issue is more at the k-12  level, even more than at the collegiate.  

And, iconic projects arent what makes places more livable.  Thats like saying paint is why people choose a house.  

Why do people think the wealthy donating to parks and such is the answer?  Maybe its the rest of everybody electing people who actually know something to our governing bodies that will make a difference.  Its not about someone else bailing everyone out, its about taking responsibility for our own decisions.

----------


## Anonymous.

> ^^^ are you talking about SF valley or the Central Valley because it can get pretty chilly in the Central Valley.


The topic is the Tesla facility, which is in SF.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> The topic is the Tesla facility, which is in SF.


My bad I’ve never heard the Bay Area or any parts of it referred to as the Valley and from my understanding there are many ex urbs where super commuters travel to from the Central Valley. I’m not terribly familiar with the north end of the Central Valley as I am the south portion and it does get cold there in the winter at times. 

Oddly enough, the complaint I hear most from my friends who live in the Bay Area is how cold it is and some of these people like my friend from Kabul have lived in pretty cold areas. It certainly isn’t as dramatic there. Just can’t beat coastal California weather.

----------


## Anonymous.

Oh I understand what you mean now. Yea I have no clue what locals use for references. I was referring to the actual Tesla facility location in SF, which is in the Santa Clara Valley as in not the mountains. Silicon valley I guess?

----------


## Pete

The Silicon Valley runs from San Jose to San Fransisco on the west side of the Bay.

The Tesla plant is in Fremont, and that area is typically referred to as the East Bay.

----------


## Bowser214

Tesla Dodges Direct Sales Ban in New Mexico, Opens Sales Center on Tribal Land
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enth...edgdhp&pc=U531

----------


## WheelerD Guy

> Tesla Dodges Direct Sales Ban in New Mexico, Opens Sales Center on Tribal Land
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enth...edgdhp&pc=U531


Very creative, although it reminds me of the Scott Tucker situation: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kan...213852304.html.

I’m assuming they have received the FTC’s blessing?

----------

