# Everything Else > Arts & Entertainment >  OKC Weather Coverage Wars 2013

## venture

A bit of this popped up in the main weather thread, but feel this is probably a more appropriate place here.

Some takeaways from what I've seen.

1) KWTV had problems with Gary using the touch screen, people talking over each other, and just a general sense of disorganization. At times it almost seemed Michael was Chief and Gary was just there.

2) KFOR with Reed Timmer seems to be going for the shock factor more and more.

3) Damon performed well and had the more calm coverage.

4) KOKH - do they have coverage? lol

So here are the ratings from the Lost Ogle...
The Lost Ogle According to this internal Channel 9 email, the company had a ?banner day? on W | The Lost Ogle

KWTV blew everyone away in the ratings.

OKLAHOMA CITY
KWTV KFOR KOCO KOKH
5P 16.5 13 7.2 3.2
6P 20 17.8 10.2 5.2
10P 18.1 13.2 7.3 1.2
Severe Wx 19.6 12.7 10.2 5.8

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## ou48A

I was expecting Reed Timmer to be animated, hyped up and going for the “shock factor”.
But the reality was that Timmer was far calmer in his WX reporting than KWTV’s far more animated David Payne.
KWTV’s Michael A. was quality coverage as always.

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## Brownwood

Hey Venture, great job on the severe weather thread and chats during the storm. 

So sad to see Gary struggle with the new technology. I used to like Mike on 4, but he's become a joke. I noticed during the last "life threatening" snow storm, he came in early and quickly relegated Emily to showing viewer snow pics. His stupid tie is not even a good gimmick and his obvious man crush on Timmer should have Sally Kern concerned. Once again, he treated Emily like a high school weather intern and dismissed her so she could "get some rest". This seems like a last act of desperation before we have our first female chief. I though Damon Lane did the best job providing severe weather information and not looking like a "freak". 


Brownwood's Ratings:

KWTV 9 - Gary & Michael (6.5)  Payne and Gardner (6.0)

KOCO 5  - Damon (8.0)

KFOR 4 - Mike (4.5)  Timmer (5.0)  Dominator 4  (7.5 for the cool factor but not much for providing me with useful info about my weather situation) 
              Emily (ND - No decision, management pulled her before decision)

KOKH 25 - Uh, were they on?  

OKC Talk - (8.5) Could be higher if we could get group Skype !!

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## Tydude

i watch all 3 coverage from 4,5 and 9 and i say 5 was the best they didn't yell at each other and going crazy when they see a tornado

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## venture

Group Skype? Ehhh. LOL

Let me work on getting the radar feeds going and then we'll go from there.  :Smile:

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## venture

The Wx-Chase mailing list had an interesting note today...




> I was going westbound on Highway 5 east of FDR to intercept the second tornado warned storm, since the first one was getting mushy in the cool air, when I was suddenly passed by a "tricked out" pickup-truck with a big "9" on the side and lots of graphics (Channel 9?).  It passed me so fast I couldn't read it. Then, about 30 seconds later, another darn vehicle passed me at a high rate of speed. This one I could read.  On the side, in large letters, it said, "SHERIFF" and something about "Tillman County."  Up ahead, I came upon the two vehicles again.  This time, they were parked along the side of the road. I think the driver of the second vehicle had a note pad or something in his hand. I proceeded (at or below the speed limit) and easily intercepted the FDR supercell without any effort. It was mushy too, so I dropped south into the better air and waited near Harrold, TX for about an hour when a cell blew up to my west and drifted toward me. I drove north about 6 miles (at or well below the speed limit) and parked east of the now quickly-rotating storm and took some pics of a beautiful supercell and two nice little tornadoes.

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## CuatrodeMayo

Probably Val.

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## Anonymous.

Anyone see Tuttle's facebook fiasco?

Last week during the severe weather coverage he blasted the local mets and called out (not by name) Gary as being a "rookie met". A lot of his 'followers' flipped and started unfoloowing his page and posting all sorts of comments about how he is childish and unprofessional. 

He later ended up removing both posts and the entire fire storm - chalking it up to 'potty mouths'.

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## kelroy55

I watched KOCO and thought Damon Land and Rusty McCranie did a good job.

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## venture

> Anyone see Tuttle's facebook fiasco?
> 
> Last week during the severe weather coverage he blasted the local mets and called out (not by name) Gary as being a "rookie met". A lot of his 'followers' flipped and started unfoloowing his page and posting all sorts of comments about how he is childish and unprofessional. 
> 
> He later ended up removing both posts and the entire fire storm - chalking it up to 'potty mouths'.


Wow that is insane. I completely missed that, but I also don't have him "liked" on the faceplace. Wasn't he suppose to announce which station he was going back to by now? 

Regardless I never really cared for him. On facebook he is complete hype machine most of the time.

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## Anonymous.

I have him liked, but not for weather forecasts  :Smile: . More for a better understanding of what the local has been informed about pertaining to upcoming weather events. Also it is entertaining seeing how he is obviously self-righteous.

I know he is just a person on facebook doing weather forecasting, but the random religious birrage he puts on his 'followers' is pitiful. Not sure what the point of those posts are, but it is rather odd to me.


I wish I had saved those posts now, I knew they would be deleted, too. He looked like a teenager replying to some of those comments.

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## SoonerDave

Seems to me that Damon Lane is generally following in his predecessor's footsteps in that he avoids the hysterics/hype. Always liked Rick Mitchell for that characteristic.

Gary looked completely lost with the touchscreen. In fairness, though, they've used that for some non-weather stories and other reporters have seemed just as awkward with it. 

I simply don't watch Mike Morgan. The irony to me that Morgan has become the hypemaster of the local TV meteorologists, whereas Gary has become rather leveled. When I was a kid, and Gary was a relative newcomer to Ch 9, he was as animated and hype-oriented as Morgan is now. In contrast, Gary has relatively mellowed considerably.

Don't know how many here will remember him, but KOCO had a very good meteorologist many years ago by the name of Wayne Shattuck. He took over a few years after the crusty, curmudgeonly old Fred Norman retired/was fired from KOCO. Shattuck was an extremely competent weatherman as I recall...as was old Jim Williams (Danny's brother) on KFOR (nee WKY at that time).

Wow, am I showing my age or what?? I remember wayyy too many old local TV meteorologists..

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## adaniel

Just my view from someone who watched both KFOR and KWTV. 

I consider myself a dedicated KFOR viewer despite all the hype and "Jesus is on my toast" sensationalism, but Mike Morgan has really bumped up the crazy lately, almost like he has to overcompensate for Payne and Gardner leaving. He did something last Wednesday that really bothered me. There was just a small radar signature over Lawton, no more than a little rain, and he was screaming about it being a debris ball from a huge tornado. As someone with a lot of family in West Lawton, it scared the daylights out of me. I was frantically calling and texting relatives are they were like, "it's not even raining." While Morgan was hollering about certain death, their own weatherguys (they have an ABC affiliate down there, KSWO) were giving the all clear. IDK, could have been an honest mistake, but it just seemed to be so over the top for what was a pretty light tornado. Reed Timmer was actually pretty good and could be a game changer, but Jon Welsh continues to be painfully awkward.  

I'll give props to KWTV for trying to shake up things, but the execution was just terrible last week. The Lost Ogle said it perfectly: way too many cooks in the kitchen. Just look at Val Castor and David Payne trying to get in the last word with each other...wow, just awkward LOL. I'm not sure David likes being a desk jockey during these events, and I think thats going to be an issue in the future. My biggest issue with KWTV though is Gary England. I'm going to get lit up for this, but as someone under the age of 30, I really don't see the big deal. I'm sure he was fantastic in his heyday. Now, though, the guy is very senile, almost to the point where its uncomfortable for the viewer. Him struggling with that big stupid screen was just icing on the cake. KWTV should have let him retire years ago. 

I can't say I watched KOCO too much, but I might just give them a chance next time, especially now that they are in HD.

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## old okie

We're old hands at weather-watching in Oklahoma, with an emphasis on "old," but the hysteria exhibited by so many of the folks--think David Payne & Mike Morgan!--is beyond the pale.  We like hearing/watching Michael Armstrong & Damon Lane.  They exhibit "calm," which is refreshing, soothing, and when/if either of them would say, "Take shelter NOW," we'd know it was the real deal.  Gary has always been our go-to guy, but he did seem quite "at sea" with this last round.  We love Emily, but Mike will never let her have the spotlight.  Too bad; she's great.

What we can't figure is why 9 put Payne ahead of Armstrong.  Payne is awful to watch, as he bobs and weaves in front of the weatherscreen for just 'normal' broadcasts.  It's so 'strobe-like' that we've often turned to another station just to get Payne out of the frame!  Armstrong and Lane and Sutton and McCranie are great weather folks!  

Am dreading 'weather season' with the hysterical crew.  Probably will turn off the sound, watch the radars, and go outside to see what is really happening.

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## Anonymous.

> Just my view from someone who watched both KFOR and KWTV. 
> 
> I consider myself a dedicated KFOR viewer despite all the hype and "Jesus is on my toast" sensationalism, but Mike Morgan has really bumped up the crazy lately, almost like he has to overcompensate for Payne and Gardner leaving. He did something last Wednesday that really bothered me. There was just a small radar signature over Lawton, no more than a little rain, and he was screaming about it being a debris ball from a huge tornado. As someone with a lot of family in West Lawton, it scared the daylights out of me. I was frantically calling and texting relatives are they were like, "it's not even raining." While Morgan was hollering about certain death, their own weatherguys (they have an ABC affiliate down there, KSWO) were giving the all clear. IDK, could have been an honest mistake, but it just seemed to be so over the top for what was a pretty light tornado. Reed Timmer was actually pretty good and could be a game changer, but Jon Welsh continues to be painfully awkward.  
> 
> I'll give props to KWTV for trying to shake up things, but the execution was just terrible last week. The Lost Ogle said it perfectly: way too many cooks in the kitchen. Just look at Val Castor and David Payne trying to get in the last word with each other...wow, just awkward LOL. I'm not sure David likes being a desk jockey during these events, and I think thats going to be an issue in the future. My biggest issue with KWTV though is Gary England. I'm going to get lit up for this, but as someone under the age of 30, I really don't see the big deal. I'm sure he was fantastic in his heyday. Now, though, the guy is very senile, almost to the point where its uncomfortable for the viewer. Him struggling with that big stupid screen was just icing on the cake. KWTV should have let him retire years ago. 
> 
> I can't say I watched KOCO too much, but I might just give them a chance next time, especially now that they are in HD.





I think the paticular scenario you are talking about was when there was indeed a tornado warning in effect. But there was no confirmed tornado on the ground. Keep in mind, Lawton was under many tornado warnings that evening. His storm spottesr had moved along with the earlier storms and he had no ground crews to spot the storm. So he was using his educated guess and the radar indicated tornado signature. 

It does not have to be raining to have a tornado, in fact, tornados often occur in the rain free zone of the storm.

I think heeding to warnings is a smart thing to do, no matter what the actual conditions look like to the untrained eye.

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## Tydude

hopefully when Gary England retires from news 9 the will bring back Rick Mitchell and he will be the chief

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## Anonymous.

Not sure if you're joking...

But Rick is in Dallas now, $ talks.

David Payne is scheduled to be chief when Gary leaves at the end of this year.

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## Romulack

The Dominator is so awesome

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## venture

> hopefully when Gary England retires from news 9 the will bring back Rick Mitchell and he will be the chief


Yeah like Anon said...Rick Mitchell is gone. He is in a much bigger market and is making big bucks. He is also slated to take over as Chief Met at NBC 5 in Dallas in 2018.

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## MikeLucky

I gotta be honest, those ratings just continue to baffle me...  I can't even fathom how anyone can consider KWTV OR KFOR even close to watchable.  I know Gary has the reputation, but I can't stand listening to him.  Both Mike Morgasm and David Payne are laughably over-the-top.  I'd honestly rather chance it with the tornado than listen to either 4 or 9.  

KOCO has been, and is still my very solid GO-TO channel for weather coverage... and it's not even close.  Rick Mitchell was great, and it appears that so far Damon Lane has been a great transition.

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## venture

Can't disagree with much said. I think KWTV ratings happen out of habit. When it hits the fan, people go to Gary and have for what...almost 40 years? Once he's gone I think we'll see a major shift in ratings.

Damon can easily take a lot of those over with smart and properly planned enhancements to their coverage without going crazy. Of course, if he starts getting a major ego from the feedback we are going to need to buy him a bedazzled tie. :-P LOL

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## kelroy55

> Can't disagree with much said. I think KWTV ratings happen out of habit. When it hits the fan, people go to Gary and have for what...almost 40 years? Once he's gone I think we'll see a major shift in ratings.
> 
> Damon can easily take a lot of those over with smart and properly planned enhancements to their coverage without going crazy. Of course, if he starts getting a major ego from the feedback we are going to need to buy him a bedazzled tie. :-P LOL


or get him a Dominator   *lol*

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## RadicalModerate

So, maybe one of the local stations needs to give this guy a chance at being a weatherman . . .

Obviously, in addition to going to The Columbia School of Broadcasting, he also attended The Daniel Schorr/Tom Brokaw Academy of Diction.
He might have to change his name to something like Sam Inclemente but that would be a small price to pay for a second chance.

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## venture

That was definitely a classic. Vulgarity aside...I've heard worse when I was in grade school many moons ago. :-P

The kid has almost 10k followers on Twitter now. LOL

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## RadicalModerate

I get about 85 to 95% of my "weather coverage" right here on this website.
(It's sort of like the Jack "Sgt. Friday" Webb/Mr. Spock/Det. Cho respository of Weather Prediction Facts.)

Did I forget to say, "Thanks," Venture?
Sorry.

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## boscorama

Agreed. Thanks to you weather guys for what you offer.

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## Tydude

KFOR weather coverage is horrible last night Mike Morgan says that there was a hook echo that was heading to the metro area but they wasn't at all

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## zookeeper

> Yeah like Anon said...Rick Mitchell is gone. He is in a much bigger market and is making big bucks. He is also slated to take over as Chief Met at NBC 5 in Dallas in 2018.


And he's already doing the 10:00 M-F. He must really be highly thought of, BIG shoes to fill when Finfrock, a giant in the business, steps aside.

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## Tydude

Rick is doing 4:00 and 10:00 Newscast.Similar to David Payne over at News 9

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## okcboomer

Bump

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## zookeeper

Damon Lane is doing a good job, but honestly I think the mellower Gary England is in top form with Armstrong today. Gary was so out of it the last storm a week or so ago. It's good to see him in charge and doing well today. The Morgasm Machine is in full gear at 4.

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## zookeeper

David Payne has GOT to calm down on 9. You can convey seriousness without the shrill screaming.

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## okcboomer

Emily sutton is awful.  Channel 9 is actually very good today.

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## CaptDave

> David Payne has GOT to calm down on 9. You can convey seriousness without the shrill screaming.


Agree 100%.

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## SOONER8693

> Emily sutton is awful.  Channel 9 is actually very good today.


Agree on Emily Sutton. She is nice eye candy. The Channel 4 weather team may be utilizing her for some things other than stricly weather coverage.

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## Jersey Boss

Morgan sure wanted his air time. He pre-empted playoff hockey while the other two stations stuck with network sports. Classic DB.

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## RadicalModerate

"Weather Coverage" today--observed while taking mandated emergency cover (three times on account of the sirens went off) at the wrong end of a store on the big screen TV tuned to The Gary England Channel has convinced me that David Payne and Val Caster need to be put on short leashes with mufflers or muzzles or whatever them over-excited barking dog gizmos are called (anti-getners?).  I actually appreciated the voice of reason and nonchaositism provided by Gary England. Which is saying something.

Mike Morgan on the NPR Feed (91.x) during the drive home seemed even more non-fearpanicmongering (note to PlutoP: "made up word" =).

However . . . I appreciated the NWS Robo/Steven Hawking voice behind the video crawl on OETA even more.
In terms of veracity. And immediacy.  (while watching "Call the Midwife")

(yet . . . none of them could hold a candle to Venture. nor even a flashlight with live batteries.  =)

Still . . . It is one thing to point out problems and another to provide solutions:
How about the lottery winner grants David Payne and Val Caster complimentary scholarships to The Walter Cronkite School of Broadcasting?




> zookeeper: "David Payne has GOT to calm down on 9. You can convey seriousness without the shrill screaming."


Apparently you agree with me =)

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## venture

Checked them all out today. FOX 25 is just out gunned so they have no real hope to compete. KOCO didn't really sit well with me. Of course they annoy me with their nonstop "behind the scenes" tweets like it is a bad episode of some reality show. 

KFOR was definitely fear machine in full gear and I had to shut him off. Which was unfortunately because Chopper4 had some really good shots.

KWTV will win the ratings again. Gary was in very good form today with Mike working the wall - exactly what they should have been doing. The David Payne "OMG ITS AN EF4 MAYBE 5 OMGWTFBBQAHHHH!" was getting annoying and just painful. You knew Gary was just fuming inside. Val wasn't too bad but still had his shouting moments. Take away the shouting, the both have a ton of field experience that is good. However, why in the world would you put them in the same area to track the same storm. That is a waste. You need to balance them with the more calming Alan, Hank and Bobby. I was thrilled those guys were on the Norman storm and provided much better coverage than Payne and Val. Jim Gardner was great as usual, but just caught himself out of position at the wrong time.

If we can get Payne and Val to calm down, KWTV would have a great field team. 

Another comment on KWTV...Amanda Taylor is HORRIBLE. Let Kelly handle the anchor desk during severe weather. She just rambles and comes across as a cheap "shock jock" like reporter asking questions that really don't need to be asked. Her interview with the EMSA guy made me want to smack her at some of the questions. 

Couple other observations on the last two days of coverage...

So far Kelly has called Jim Gardner "Mason" once. Jim has slipped saying "Bob Moore Chop..." and then caught himself once as well. Maybe after a few more years everyone will be use to it.  :Smile:

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## zookeeper

> Checked them all out today. FOX 25 is just out gunned so they have no real hope to compete. KOCO didn't really sit well with me. Of course they annoy me with their nonstop "behind the scenes" tweets like it is a bad episode of some reality show. 
> 
> KFOR was definitely fear machine in full gear and I had to shut him off. Which was unfortunately because Chopper4 had some really good shots.
> 
> KWTV will win the ratings again. Gary was in very good form today with Mike working the wall - exactly what they should have been doing. The David Payne "OMG ITS AN EF4 MAYBE 5 OMGWTFBBQAHHHH!" was getting annoying and just painful. You knew Gary was just fuming inside. Val wasn't too bad but still had his shouting moments. Take away the shouting, the both have a ton of field experience that is good. However, why in the world would you put them in the same area to track the same storm. That is a waste. You need to balance them with the more calming Alan, Hank and Bobby. I was thrilled those guys were on the Norman storm and provided much better coverage than Payne and Val. Jim Gardner was great as usual, but just caught himself out of position at the wrong time.
> 
> If we can get Payne and Val to calm down, KWTV would have a great field team. 
> 
> Another comment on KWTV...Amanda Taylor is HORRIBLE. Let Kelly handle the anchor desk during severe weather. She just rambles and comes across as a cheap "shock jock" like reporter asking questions that really don't need to be asked. *Her interview with the EMSA guy made me want to smack her at some of the questions.* 
> ...


I agree with everything you wrote. Channel 9 was heads and shoulders above the competition today. I thought Payne was the worst with the shrill screaming, it was so annoying, but Gary was just ON today. What you said about Amanda Taylor that I bolded above was absolutely right. She asked the EMSA guy if they were going to work through the night! He said "Well, we're 24/7/365." I was thinking Oh, Amanda. Face palm time.

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## yukong

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I watched Mike Morgan and KFOR for the majority of the coverage...partly because it was firing off out by my house in Surrey Hills early in the afternoon and KWTV and KOCO were not cutting away from the sporting events and that irritated me as I could see the rotation in the clouds west of and over me.  I kept thinking they would come on, but they didn't so I stayed with Morgan.  KOCO and KWTV finally came on when the tornado warning was issued.  But Morgan was warning of the possible tornado a couple of minutes before the warning.  I know he was a bit sensationalistic, but considering he turned out correct, I can accept his excitement.  And as far as chasers, I could not tolerate David Payne.  He was crazy.  I really figured when 4 added Reed Timmer that he would "out David Payne", David Payne, but he was actually quite good in my opinion.  Reed did get excited a couple of times, but nothing even remotely close to David Payne.  Emily Sutton was not with it today.  This is the first time I have seen her storm chase, and she needs to get better or stay in studio on Twitter.  I don't know if KFOR asked Hank Baker to jump in for Emily or what, but I thought Hank Baker did well also.  But then, Hank is a friend of mine and I was glad to hear him on.  

All in all, I enjoyed KFOR's coverage.  I am also starting to like their helicopter guy John.  He is getting much better.  I used to watch KWTV because they were more calm and low key and I stayed away from KFOR because of David Payne's irrational reporting.  But now...he is at KWTV and I can't handle him.  So, I'm back to KFOR.  Oh well.  

I just glad we have the coverage we have and people like Venture and Annonymous and the rest that keep us covered here.  Thanks guys.

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## kevinpate

Turned down the volume, simply tired of the noise that was supposed to be information.
Alternated radar screens from the channels and from the computer.
Called the out of stater kiddos and assured them all was well for the folks, less so for fish at dirtybird and for several folks not in norman.
Decent weather review all in all.

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## BlackmoreRulz

We lost power as the sirens went off here in Edmond, had to listen on my phone or info....started out listening to 9's coverage but over the radio I just couldn't take them trying to scream over each other. Watched 4's coverage for awhile.....Emily: "Mike!, MIKE! *MIKE!!!!*....click

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## Jim Kyle

> Agree 100%.


I actually switched over to 4 for a while, to get away from the hysterics...

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## zookeeper

> I actually switched over to 4 for a while, to get away from the hysterics...


I did too. Back on 9, I loved it when a couple of times Gary actually just cut them off and moved right along like they weren't screaming about the apocalypse. I was glad he was directing the show today. That last storm where he was so out of it was worrying. Maybe ill that day? Today, he was really good.

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## yukong

> I actually switched over to 4 for a while, to get away from the hysterics...


Odd how things have changed...used to switch to 9 to get away from the hysterics...but now I turn to 4 to get away from them.  Wonder what the common denominator might be?

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## adaniel

KFOR: First on TV while KWTV continued to show golf. Jon Welsh in Bob Moore Chopper 4 has absolutely earned my respect today, and was probably the only reason I continued to watch. Reed Timmer was pretty good as well. I love Emily Sutton in the morning but she should have NOT chased today. At one point she was just screaming "MIKE! MIKE! MIKE!" LOL. Oh and Mike Morgan would really do well to stop claiming tornadoes to be F4/5. They probably didn't win the ratings but they did get beamed nationally on CNN, TWC, MSNBC, etc. 

KWTV: Didn't watch them as much, and their coverage of the Shawnee tornado was much better than the Edmond one (had to turn it from KFOR when Emily was screaming MIKE! MIKE! MIKE!). But WOW, someone needs to sit down Val and David Payne. Both are in serious need of a come-to-jesus moment. When Gary retires and David takes over I think the awkwardness will only increase. Way too many egos in that newsroom.

Don't think anyone "won" today; however i'll always give props to all stations today for keeping everyone safe. Even with their annoying habits, most markets, particularly mid-markets like ours, would kill for weather coverage like we receive in OKC.

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## soonerguru

Nine was terrible, Damon Lane was his usual cocky self, blah, so I watched crazy Mike (sorry to Shawnee Mall for the false damage hysteria). Four did best today although Nine did have the best helicopter shot of one the twisters. I miss Rick Mitchell.

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## soonerguru

To the posters above who watched Four, I did too because they seemed much more prepared. I was shocked how long Five and Nine waited to start their coverage.

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## flintysooner

Some of the KWTV and KFOR helicopter images were absolutely stunning.

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## soonerguru

The new helicopter guy on Four was impressive and seems like a class act.

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## Tydude

hopefully someone can get they hands on ratings for today storm coverage

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## venture

> hopefully someone can get they hands on ratings for today storm coverage


Lost Ogle will probably have it in a day or two.

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## Dustin

I'm typing this on my phone so it's gonna be short and sweet.

We were in southwestern oklahoma on a little wkend vacation and decided to stay all day today because we didn't want to drive home and get blown off the road.  We used the hotel wifi and live streamed channel 9 on our iPads.  The picture was awesome, it was just like watching it on TV.  I thought the coverage was excellent.  Yes, David was insane but he is really good at what he does.  The tornado footage from Jim garner was insane!!!!!

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## rezman

> We lost power as the sirens went off here in Edmond, had to listen on my phone or info....started out listening to 9's coverage but over the radio I just couldn't take them trying to scream over each other. Watched 4's coverage for awhile.....Emily: "Mike!, MIKE! *MIKE!!!!*....click



I think Emily got scared. She pulled the car over and just sat while every one else stayed on the move.... but later on she got in the game and got some good shots. That's when the screaming started.

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## kelroy55

> We lost power as the sirens went off here in Edmond, had to listen on my phone or info....started out listening to 9's coverage but over the radio I just couldn't take them trying to scream over each other. Watched 4's coverage for awhile.....Emily: "Mike!, MIKE! *MIKE!!!!*....click


She posted about that today on her Facebook    lol

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## Dubya61

Was in the car listening to coverage from Channel 9.  Thought it was funny that I kept hearing someone scream out Gary's name and that at one point, Gary suggested we equip our kiddos with helmets and shatter-proof goggles.

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## Dustin

Did a guy seriously just hang a confederate flag on that tree live on KFOR?  WTF!

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## mkjeeves

That KOCO interview with the Parker boy (who is waiting to hear if his parents are alive) asking where he thought he was going to stay tonight was brutal.

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## Dustin

Someone needs to get Meg Alexander some coffee, ASAP!  Or tell her to go home.  Stuttering and slurring words..

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## adaniel

> Someone needs to get Meg Alexander some coffee, ASAP!  Or tell her to go home.  Stuttering and slurring words..


Give her a break. She personally witnessed 4 dead bodies be pulled out of the 7-11 off 4th street. 

Most people who aren't sociopaths would be a little worn down after that.

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## SoonerQueen

Michael Armstrong posted on his Facebook page this morning that he hoped he was wrong, but he thought this was going to be a bad weather day. He was sure right.I think I'm going to pay lots of attention to what he posts from now on.

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## zookeeper

If you didn't see the live coverage on TV, MSNBC put together this 8 minute montage that forms a timeline of the day. Pretty incredible. Mike Morgan absolutely lays down the truth to the viewers. As much as we make fun of him around here, he was as right as he could be and saved lives today. They all did. Here's the montage from MSNBC 
Montage-Tornado Timeline -The Last Word -MSNBC

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## bchris02

Mike Morgan is usually right. As sensational as he can be, every time his prediction comes closest to the truth.

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## ljbab728

> Mike Morgan is usually right. As sensational as he can be, every time his prediction comes closest to the truth.


 Agreed, when lives are totally in danger, hype is not in question.  And some were bashing KFOR recently because KFOR was showing OKC and the Metro area in a high risk area when they thought the main risk was further East or North.  No one has all of the answers when it comes to severe weather.

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## yukong

We sometimes complain and make fun of their hype and sensationalism, but thank God we have them. No question that today Mike, Gary and Damon saved lives.  That is beyond debate.  God Bless them, their crews and chasers. Those spotters and chasers risk life and limb to give coverage and warnings. I'm proud to have them.

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## td25er

I think the news teams have been fantastic.  4, 5, and 9.  Great work.

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## kelroy55

+1

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## Tydude

KOCO 5 Coverage is the best one of the news anchor just broke down in tears live on the air

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## rezman

Linda Cavanaugh seemed like she was somewhat medicated.

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## Anonymous.

I will give props to the KFOR Helicopter pilot and cameraman. They did a great job from what I saw.

Jon Welsh or something like that, I believe. He understands reporting facts calmly in real-time. Also he makes it clear when he is stating opinions/speculation/assumptions.

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## bucktalk

When Jon first began as KFOR helicopter pilot I thought he seemed timid and unsure of himself. But yesterday he was stellar in his messages and calm demeanor. I was totally impressed with his professionalism. 





> I will give props to the KFOR Helicopter pilot and cameraman. They did a great job from what I saw.
> 
> Jon Welsh or something like that, I believe. He understands reporting facts calmly in real-time. Also he makes it clear when he is stating opinions/speculation/assumptions.

----------


## venture

> KOCO 5 Coverage is the best one of the news anchor just broke down in tears live on the air


Everyone has cracked from time to time. Amanda did on KWTV, Michael was close a few times as well. I don't think a person crying on air = best TV station though. We know you are a KOCO fan boy, so that's expected.  :Smile: 

Reading back through the rest of the comments...there is a time and place when we can evaluate on various factors how they performed. In this case there is no reason to grade. If we want to grade them on forecast performance, no on really missed. Were the local TV stations blaring "high risks" warranted? No. People say that because they did don't understand the numbers behind risks. If we want to take the discussion to the meteorological we can, but let's be clear when we do go down that road.

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## Tydude

KOCO 5 i think just went to its first commercial break since yesterday

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## Tydude

KOCO 5 is back with its normal program

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## zookeeper

I just wanted to say that I hope Channel 9 can hang on to Michael Armstrong. He's incredibly knowledgeable and professional.

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## Plutonic Panda

> I just wanted to say that I hope Channel 9 can hang on to Michael Armstrong. He's incredibly knowledgeable and professional.


Couldn't agree more

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## kevinpate

Is it wrong to not feel bad, in advance, should a certain too loud and dramatic newcomer to tv9 cuddle up too close to a west ok storm tonight?

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## bucktalk

> I just wanted to say that I hope Channel 9 can hang on to Michael Armstrong. He's incredibly knowledgeable and professional.


I wonder why channel 9 seldom, if ever, uses Jed Castles during storm season. Sure he does morning weather but when its time for 'all hands on deck' channel 9 doesn't seem to use him.

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## bucktalk

I think Mike Morgan was very, very irresponsible for bringing a sense of panic for people by telling them to get in their cars and run from the storm. He placed more people in danger in their car than they would have been staying in their house. The traffic problems have been horrific, in part in my opinion, due to Mike Morgan's panic. Am I wrong?

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## RadicalModerate

I just hope that our visitors to the immediate north of us (enconsed at La Quinta a couple of miles to the north of us) surfed the local channels other than Channel 4.  Tornadoes are not unheard of in Minnesota (and, thankfully, they flew in this morning) but they had questions about sirens . . . and locations of The Threat.  I had to respond to a couple of questions via cellphone to them to moderate their fears regarding global positioning in unknown territory vis-a-vis THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT SO GET IN YOUR CAR AND DRIVE AWAY FROM THE DANGER (so you can be stuck in traffic/flooding and let THE ACTUAL TORNADO ROLL OVER YOU (so to speak, c/o Channel 4 Coverage, Tie Guy Mike).  My wife got on the phone to her for real BFF and said, "It's as far away as Branam from Isanti."

The classic, caught on video clip, would be when the In The Field other driver, had to HONK to get the Video Storm Chaser on the correct side of the center lane.  In traffic. Could have been a minor tragedy.  Or not.

My advice to the semi-freaked out (just like me) visitors from UpNord was: Come on down and have a bite . . . Dinner's waitin' fer ya'. I think the worst has passed.  Those visitors: Flew in today c. 10:00.  Me: 1974.=)

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## RadicalModerate

> I wonder why channel 9 seldom, if ever, uses Jed Castles during storm season. Sure he does morning weather but when its time for 'all hands on deck' channel 9 doesn't seem to use him.


Probably it the Talent/Screen name.
Sounds too much like a Beverly Hillbilly.
Or a chess move.

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## RadicalModerate

> I think Mike Morgan was very, very irresponsible for bringing a sense of panic for people by telling them to get in their cars and run from the storm. He placed more people in danger in their car than they would have been staying in their house. The traffic problems have been horrific, in part in my opinion, due to Mike Morgan's panic. Am I wrong?


I'm not certain that "irresponsible" covers the potential liability.
but that's okay . . . even a local media talking head can only be so much of a multi-tasker.

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## zookeeper

> I think Mike Morgan was very, very irresponsible for bringing a sense of panic for people by telling them to get in their cars and run from the storm. He placed more people in danger in their car than they would have been staying in their house. The traffic problems have been horrific, in part in my opinion, due to Mike Morgan's panic. Am I wrong?


Hey, the guy told people to flee *south*. That's exactly where the storms turned to. Very irresponsible to even suggest outrunning such a widespread storm. I was shocked.

----------


## zookeeper

Kudos again to Gary England for a very sharp night and controlling the coverage. He slapped David Payne down a couple of times. That guy is out of control, seriously. Michael Armstrong, as I said earlier, is the consummate professional and sharp as a tack.  I still think KWTV has time to somehow nix the David Payne deal as Chief Meteorologist after Gary leaves. Michael Armstrong is *so much* more prepared for the job.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Is David Payne a for sure thing?

----------


## bchris02

> Hey, the guy told people to flee *south*. That's exactly where the storms turned to. Very irresponsible to even suggest outrunning such a widespread storm. I was shocked.


I agree.  I usually listen to Mike but yes he was very irresponsible for this.  I wonder how many people are stranded because he told people to flee south.

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## jn1780

It was irresponsible, but I bet people would have fled anyway after the May 20 storm. People and Morgan apparently were assuming it would behave like a typical thunderstorm and either go east or northeast.

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## zookeeper

> Is David Payne a for sure thing?


Meteorologist David Payne leaving KFOR-4 to join KWTV-9 | News OK

"Payne eventually will succeed Gary England as KWTV chief meterologist when he decides to retire, said David Griffin, CEO and chairman of Griffin Communications."

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## bluedogok

Maybe Payne will calm down some if he is stuck in the studio and not in storm chaser mode.

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## king183

I couldn't believe my ears when I heard some of the weathermen tell people in OKC to get in their cars and drive south to escape the storms--only to have the storm turn southward. Getting in your car to outrun the storm is probably #3 on the list of things not to do. I'm sure people were injured because of it and the panic they caused. Unbelievable. 

Apparently some of the praise heaped upon them this past week is not deserved.

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## zookeeper

> I couldn't believe my ears when I heard some of the weathermen tell people in OKC to get in their cars and drive south to escape the storms--only to have the storm turn southward. Getting in your car to outrun the storm is probably #3 on the list of things not to do. I'm sure people were injured because of it and the panic they caused. Unbelievable. 
> 
> Apparently some of the praise heaped upon them this past week is not deserved.


Sorry, I responded to you in the Weather thread. Did you hear anybody but Mike Morgan say that? I know he did and couldn't believe it as there were cells close together and one was moving to the SE. It was incredibly irresponsible.

----------


## king183

> Sorry, I responded to you in the Weather thread. Did you hear anybody but Mike Morgan say that? I know he did and couldn't believe it as there were cells close together and one was moving to the SE. It was incredibly irresponsible.


No...sorry, I should have been more precise: Mike Morgan said it and it was repeated on TWC, which was apparently using Morgan's feed.  So he was the only one who said it that I know of, but it went out through two separate sources.

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## zookeeper

> No...sorry, I should have been more precise: Mike Morgan said it and it was repeated on TWC, which was apparently using Morgan's feed.  So he was the only one who said it that I know of, but it went out through two separate sources.


Gotcha. Just crazy.

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## boscorama

I'm not a Morgasm basher but admit my jaw dropped over this. We had loved one near NW 23/Penn asking us what to do. I urged him to drive south. Thankfully, he remained in place, suffering only mild hail (no damage). Horrific to imagine the traffic jam heading south, especially on the interstates.

I wouldn't call it "irresponsible" so much as a bad call. Hope Mike learns from it but doesn't beat himself up too much.

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## zookeeper

> I'm not a Morgasm basher but admit my jaw dropped over this. We had loved one near NW 23/Penn asking us what to do. I urged him to drive south. Thankfully, he remained in place, suffering only mild hail (no damage). Horrific to imagine the traffic jam heading south, especially on the interstates.
> 
> I wouldn't call it "irresponsible" so much as a bad call. Hope Mike learns from it but doesn't beat himself up too much.


I don't know. It's pretty irresponsible in my view. I'm watching CNN's live coverage of all this and they're treating this like a scandal. The OEMA director just told Wolf Blitzer they'd like to know "how this rumor got started" to drive south out of the I-40 area. Well, they'll know soon enough it wasn't a "rumor" but real advice from Mike Morgan at Channel 4. NO, Gary England did NOT say this, in fact just the opposite. I have a feeling Mike will have to address this publicly and explain.

----------


## zookeeper

They are AGAIN talking about this "scandal" on CNN. Somebody will be held accountable said Chad Myers earlier.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Anyone listening to this guy going on a rant on CNN? He has some good points though. The comments he made about the flooding situation is dumb though. He made it sound as if there is no flooding going on at all around OKC.

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## venture

Morgan I think is just setting himself up to head for an early retirement if KWTV keeps crushing them in the ratings. The other part is that they also had  two chasers (if Reed was chasing for them today) get too close and suffer damage to their vehicles. KWTV had David and Val get a bit too close, but Gary jumped on top of it and got them repositioned quickly. Of course the icing on the cake was TWC's vehicle getting flipped for being aggressive know it alls. I'm sorry. I chased for 15 years, I knew when I screwed up, but I would never ever ever put myself in that position on a day like today.

About KWTV...Michael is really impressive lately. I think we might see where he stays in the studio and Payne is in the field. Though I wouldn't be shocked if there is some language in the contract with Payne if they find things not working out.

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## Jrunner

> I don't know. It's pretty irresponsible in my view. I'm watching CNN's live coverage of all this and they're treating this like a scandal. The OEMA director just told Wolf Blitzer they'd like to know "how this rumor got started" to drive south out of the I-40 area. Well, they'll know soon enough it wasn't a "rumor" but real advice from Mike Morgan at Channel 4. NO, Gary England did NOT say this, in fact just the opposite. I have a feeling Mike will have to address this publicly and explain.


Yeah, it seemed irresponsible. I can't remember the exact phrasing but I'm pretty sure Mike said something along the lines of, If you live in El Reno, Yukon, Mustang, anywhere along I-40 up to a couple miles north of I-40, you need to get in your car and head south right now or you will die."

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Morgan I think is just setting himself up to head for an early retirement if KWTV keeps crushing them in the ratings. The other part is that they also had  two chasers (if Reed was chasing for them today) get too close and suffer damage to their vehicles. KWTV had David and Val get a bit too close, but Gary jumped on top of it and got them repositioned quickly. Of course the icing on the cake was TWC's vehicle getting flipped for being aggressive know it alls. I'm sorry. I chased for 15 years, I knew when I screwed up, but I would never ever ever put myself in that position on a day like today.
> 
> About KWTV...Michael is really impressive lately. I think we might see where he stays in the studio and Payne is in the field. Though I wouldn't be shocked if there is some language in the contract with Payne if they find things not working out.


I heard Wolf Blitzer say that there was going to be an investigation into who said go out onto the highways and try and outrun the storm. Don't exactly know what he meant other than maybe just finding out who did it and that's that, from what I've heard it was Mike Morgan. I wonder if this will really hurt him and 4Warn?

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## ljbab728

> I heard Wolf Blitzer say that there was going to be an investigation into who said go out onto the highways and try and outrun the storm. Don't exactly know what he meant other than maybe just finding out who did it and that's that, from what I've heard it was Mike Morgan. I wonder if this will really hurt him and 4Warn?


I think it's a big "YAWN" issue.  There is no evidence that anyone had any significant problems because of that.  The car vs. storm issues were mainly along I40 West of OKC.  I'm not saying some people shouldn't have stayed home, just that I haven't heard of it causing major problems.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> I think it's a big "YAWN" issue.  There is no evidence that anyone had any significant problems because of that.  The car vs. storm issues were mainly along I40 West of OKC.  I'm not saying some people shouldn't have stayed home, just that I haven't heard of it causing major problems.


Well that was another thought, if a big issue will be made or people will just forget about it. They sure were making a big deal on CNN awhile ago, but that's CNN lol

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## ljbab728

> Well that was another thought, if a big issue will be made or people will just forget about it. They sure were making a big deal on CNN awhile ago, but that's CNN lol


Of course.  Controversy provides ratings.

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## Plutonic Panda

> Of course.  Controversy provides ratings.


As always. My father owns a car rental company and after the May 20th twister, NBC rented two of my fathers cars for a week. The brought the car back 5 days early. As I was driving the reporter and his assistant, or whoever, back to the airport, I asked why he left so early and I was told the death toll was not high enough to justify them being there(dropped from 90 to 21). The reporter told me he was disappointed, but that's the it happens sometimes.

----------


## ljbab728

> As I was driving the reporter and his assistant, or whoever, back to the airport, I asked why he left so early and I was told the death toll was not high enough to justify them being there(dropped from 90 to 21). The reporter told me he was disappointed, but that's the it happens sometimes.


Oh well, back to Afghanistan then where there are more bodies.

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## Uncle Slayton

> As always. My father owns a car rental company and after the May 20th twister, NBC rented two of my fathers cars for a week. The brought the car back 5 days early. As I was driving the reporter and his assistant, or whoever, back to the airport, I asked why he left so early and I was told the death toll was not high enough to justify them being there(dropped from 90 to 21). The reporter told me he was disappointed, but that's the it happens sometimes.


To quote Don Henley:  "It's interesting when people die- give us dirty laundry.

----------


## Uncle Slayton

> I think it's a big "YAWN" issue.  There is no evidence that anyone had any significant problems because of that.  The car vs. storm issues were mainly along I40 West of OKC.  I'm not saying some people shouldn't have stayed home, just that I haven't heard of it causing major problems.


It was a dumb call to tell people, in essence, "FLEE, FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!"  Norman was quite literally gridlocked before the crap really started to fly in this area.  

I went to a local diner this morning to eavesdrop on the zeitgeist and a lot of the talk centered around telling people to get out in it and drive.  One guy said he was trying to get home in Norman and saw people in SUVs and even lighter vehicles driving into ridiculously deep ditches, embankments, etc, trying to get around traffic and get onto a major artery.  He also said people were abandoning their cars and even came to his elderly father's house and begged to be let in.  The old man supposedly didn't even use his cellar, the dirt and grass had kinda grown over part of the door, so he handed them a shovel and said "if you want to use it, dig it out", and several of them did.  (The old man went back inside to his dinner and TV). 

I don't know if the herd was spooked or what, but this seems like an atypical Oklahoma response to tornadoes, many definitely didn't "act like ya been there before."  It was like a scene from the apocalyptic movie 2012 in many parts of the city.

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## Teo9969

Seriously, you can't say "life-threatening situation" (like Gary said ~7:15) and expect people to react naturally so soon after May 20th. Should have left it at "Take your normal tornado precautions."

But between out-of-state through traffic and unmoved Oklahomans who wanted to still get out on Friday night, and fierce rain that probably ruined visibility...I'm not sure that things would have been 100% better if people had not tried to outrun the storm.

Friday is a particularly bad day for tornadoes.

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## Questor

It doesn't help that channels 4 and 9 are now stocked with raving lunatics either. Perhaps one of our local TV personalities' repeated calls to "get out of the way" on air and on radio factored in as well.

----------


## Anonymous.

> Seriously, you can't say "life-threatening situation" (like Gary said ~7:15) and expect people to react naturally so soon after May 20th. Should have left it at "Take your normal tornado precautions."
> 
> But between out-of-state through traffic and unmoved Oklahomans who wanted to still get out on Friday night, and fierce rain that probably ruined visibility...I'm not sure that things would have been 100% better if people had not tried to outrun the storm.
> 
> Friday is a particularly bad day for tornadoes.



I think this post is the best summary of what happened.

Perhaps some people tried to "flee" the tornado. But I think it was a combination of the following:

-Amateur wanna-be chasers out there
-People who held the mentality "it's never as bad as _they_ say it will be"
-Clueless people
-People leaving and going to/from work
-People 'fleeing' from storm paths. *(there was a tornado emergency issued for OK county. But sirens were going off throughout ENTIRE metro area regardless of storm path)*


The bottom line is there should have been almost no traffic Friday evening. The drill was, go home from work - watch the weather and be prepared for action. NOT, go home - get ready to go about normal plans to eat at Applebees and then go out for a few drinks with friends and "ohmergerd I hope we don't get sucked up in a tornado, lolz".

People are selfish when it comes to weather events - most of those people on the roads last night were simply being selfish.


To touch on what I bolded above, the city really needs to get together and see if there is a way to prevent sirens from going off in areas where there is no immediate danger. I feel the sound of sirens gives people a sense of panic and makes people drive crazier.

----------


## venture

I agree on the sirens part. Norman spent a few million on a completely new system a couple years back and one of the features was to segment the city. However it seems they are still blowing citywide even when just the Northern sliver of Norman is warned. There we are talking about a city of 110 sq miles, which is still pretty large compared to most cities, but now apply that to a city 620 sq miles and its just a mess.

The whole fleeing yesterday was just a mess. If you are on a road way that has the tornado going down it - by all means get off of it and move out of the way. Don't run out and get in your car when there are people already out there trying to get away. You should be in your shelter/safe place and stay put.

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## bluedogok

There are a lot of people who do not pay attention to local news or weather reports and are typically caught off-guard by the rapidly changing weather. They just feel they don't have to keep up with it, they don't watch the news, have apps on their phone or have a weather radio. I saw a lot of it in Austin, some in OKC and even up here where we can have 80's one day and 6" of snow the next. A large segment of the population will only respond if the sirens go off.

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## Teo9969

The siren issue is complex because people need to be aware, but they also need to be calm and informed. The way I've noticed they have done it, is sound for a brief period in places that are at risk but then turn them off if an area is not in immediate danger. That seems like a reasonable way to handle it.

And with I-40 and I-35 being so heavily trafficked by out-of-towners, I think having the sirens go off so that they become aware that the weather is severe may be what they need to get off the road and toward a structure...It's not like someone from Kansas City on their way to Dallas is going to be able to tune in to the radio and understand the threat difference between a tornado in Mustang and a tornado at May Ave.

I always fear for the people driving westbound on I-40 during severe weather.

More than fixing sirens, Emergency Management needs to create a plan to shut down the interstates during tornadoes. We're good enough at predicting these things a day in advance that we can be at the ready on days of particular high risk. As soon as a particularly strong supercell develops, all proper personnel are in place to close off on-ramps and blockade the highway forcing people off the highway and onto city streets where they can find shelter.

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## Anonymous.

Sirens are not designed for making people aware of weather (you should already be aware as this is the point of forecasts). They are for telling people to go below ground or in an interior room. The fact that sirens are going off in places where people do not need to take such shelter, creates chaos and panic that could then funnel into actual danger areas. It is a slippery slope.

Bottom line is if the sirens in your area are going off, take tornado precautions. When sirens go off everywhere at once, people begin freaking out and like we say yesterday, start driving to places in dangerous fashion.


EDIT: To keep this thread on topic. Yes you should never get in a car to flee if a tornado is imminent. I am against local mets giving such suggestions. However, I feel like some local media are taking unnecessary flack. OKC proper had a long time to adhere to the warnings. People waiting last minute have no one to blame but themselves. The warnings were there. You knew your local surroundings and the local traffic. Do not blame others for ones own mistakes.

I think closing I-40 also created a giant mess as when it was blocked, people got off the interstate to find alternate routes. It was just a really bad situation and nobody but passerbys should have been on the road in the first place.

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## venture

Sometimes I wonder if we need a better way to shut down interstates when severe weather is crossing. Now I am thrilled that ODOT finally pulled their heads out and posted a weather alert on the large signs. However, I still think they need to be posting things like "Tornado Watch Until 12AM" or "Tornado Warning Oklahoma County"...something to just get in the drivers faces of stay alert or even don't proceed and find shelter. Heck maybe the digital billboards should show live radar or something to. Who knows.

----------


## ShiroiHikari

My husband, bless him, was one of the people who got spooked by listening to Mike Morgan yesterday. He and his co-workers left work in a panic and tried to outrun the storm. Instead they drove right into it. No meteorologist should EVER tell people to try to outrun a storm! That's ridiculous. 

I was watching KOCO, so when Husband called me and said "GET OUT GET OUT RIGHT NOW" I was like "????". Damon Lane never said anything about imminent death, just that things were looking pretty unstable in the Moore/Norman area and to stay alert.

----------


## venture

For those that missed it...

Morgan telling people to go south. It starts around 1:38ish.

----------


## jn1780

> My husband, bless him, was one of the people who got spooked by listening to Mike Morgan yesterday. He and his co-workers left work in a panic and tried to outrun the storm. Instead they drove right into it. No meteorologist should EVER tell people to try to outrun a storm! That's ridiculous. 
> 
> I was watching KOCO, so when Husband called me and said "GET OUT GET OUT RIGHT NOW" I was like "????". Damon Lane never said anything about imminent death, just that things were looking pretty unstable in the Moore/Norman area and to stay alert.


This is one of the reasons I hate the TorCon. Its making everyone believe tornados are the only parts of the storm to worry about. EF4+ tornados have a statistically low chance of occuring and you will be fine in the interior part of a structure in almost every case. Unless you live on the outskirts of town with a quick escape route out of the city its a dumb idea to try to outrun a storm.  

NOT EVERY TORNADO IS GOING TO BE AN EF5!

----------


## zookeeper

The Mike Morgan video, go back to it. If you only watched the "go south" at 1:38 or so, please continue watching or start it at the* 2:30* mark. That's the PLEA he makes to go southbound. Then continue watching. That was what so many found shocking. Listening to the whole thing from that 2:30 point helped make me realize why it's so bad. It's just a wow moment for anyone who saw the gridlock. This played a huge factor in the I-40, I-35, I-240 mess. This was also live on the Weather Channel at the same time it was on 4.

----------


## bchris02

> The Mike Morgan video, go back to it. If you only watched the "go south" at 1:38 or so, please continue watching or start it at the* 2:30* mark. That's the PLEA he makes to go southbound. Then continue watching. That was what so many found shocking. Listening to the whole thing from that 2:30 point helped make me realize why it's so bad. It's just a wow moment for anyone who saw the gridlock. This played a huge factor in the I-40, I-35, I-240 mess. This was also played live on the Weather Channel.


This will probably put an end to the "get out of the way" pleas the local meteorologists usually give before these storms.  Mike was likely expecting this to move E-NE like they usually do, not go SE.

----------


## zookeeper

> This will probably put an end to the "get out of the way" pleas the local meteorologists usually give before these storms.  Mike was likely expecting this to move E-NE like they usually do, not go SE.


But the direction of that storm is not really even the point. Even if it was moving NE it's _not_ common practice for the TV guys to "usually" send people out on to the highways and cause bumper-to-bumper gridlock in any circumstances. I think that Mike Morgan will have to answer to this in a public fashion.

----------


## Easy180

> But the direction of that storm is not really even the point. Even if it was moving NE it's _not_ common practice for the TV guys to "usually" send people out on to the highways and cause bumper-to-bumper gridlock in any circumstances. I think that Mike Morgan will have to answer to this in a public fashion.


Saw he made a Washington Post article...Guessing he will offer up some sort of apology and just stick to shelter up and hunker downs going forward

----------


## zookeeper

> Saw he made a Washington Post article...Guessing he will offer up some sort of apology and just stick to shelter up and hunker downs going forward


From MSNBC, Mayor Cornett obviously didn't know that Mike Morgan pleaded with viewers to "go southbound," he was actually on last night along with OEMA people who said they didn't know why people decided to try to flee.

I was surprised by that, it came through the metro area six thirty, seven oclock time frame, Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett said on MSNBC, meaning that people should not have been driving home from work.

Im wondering if the tornadoes from a couple of weeks ago didnt frighten people so badly that this time they were taking no chances and trying to evade it by car, Cornett said. Thats a very unwise thing to do because it's the absolute worst place you can be during a tornado.

----------


## Teo9969

I was fine when Morgan said FLEE on the 20th. We KNEW that this was a wedge tornado barreling toward Moore that was absolutely going to obliterate everything in its path. Nothing yesterday indicated that would be the case. When he said at 1:45ish "Interior Bathroom or Closet is not going to do it" he had no evidence that this was even close to an EF4. On the 20th, people were calling it to be about an EF4 all the way back in Newcastle.

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## zookeeper

> I was fine when Morgan said FLEE on the 20th. We KNEW that this was a wedge tornado barreling toward Moore that was absolutely going to obliterate everything in its path. Nothing yesterday indicated that would be the case. When he said at 1:45ish "Interior Bathroom or Closet is not going to do it" he had no evidence that this was even close to an EF4. On the 20th, people were calling it to be about an EF4 all the way back in Newcastle.


That's a very good point, Teo. Also, yesterday he was telling a huge chunk of _Oklahoma City_ to go southbound as opposed to a much smaller area that had an EF4 or 5 coming at it. Big difference. Thanks for pointing that out.

----------


## venture

> I was fine when Morgan said FLEE on the 20th. We KNEW that this was a wedge tornado barreling toward Moore that was absolutely going to obliterate everything in its path. Nothing yesterday indicated that would be the case. When he said at 1:45ish "Interior Bathroom or Closet is not going to do it" he had no evidence that this was even close to an EF4. On the 20th, people were calling it to be about an EF4 all the way back in Newcastle.


We just need to get away from this calling out EF scale numbers unless they are doing damage assessments as they go - which they typically aren't. Commenting on violent surface rotation or significant/substantial structural damage should be more than enough. Yesterday's dynamics were very good for significant/violent tornadoes - so I'm not sure where you are getting that it was never indicated to be the case? The fact that they did the 2nd PDS watch of the year yesterday seemed to highlight that. 

The tornado in Moore last night was surveyed with a width of 500 yards...or a quarter mile wide. It's rating? EF0.  Large tornadoes can appear to be violent, but not always the case. Which is why we need to get away from calling our EF scales unless they are able to actually verify the damage being done.

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## Teo9969

> Sometimes I wonder if we need a better way to shut down interstates when severe weather is crossing. Now I am thrilled that ODOT finally pulled their heads out and posted a weather alert on the large signs. However, I still think they need to be posting things like "Tornado Watch Until 12AM" or "Tornado Warning Oklahoma County"...something to just get in the drivers faces of stay alert or even don't proceed and find shelter. Heck maybe the digital billboards should show live radar or something to. Who knows.


Just close down the highways. Barricades at the following and blockades at all on-ramps between the two:

I-40W @about Sooner Road
I-40E @ Council
I-35S/44W @ Wilshire
I-35N @ Lindsey
I-44E @ SW 74th

If someone can make a good case, I'd be open for leaving the I-44 NE and I-40 E on-ramps or even entire highways open and only barricading when we know a storm is out in front of the direction people are traveling...but I don't think that case can REALLY be made when tornadoes can pop up from behind while another one is out in front.

Develop the plan by August/September and PSA the plan to the public over the next 6 months so that in 2014 going forward, OKC people know how it operates.

----------


## venture

> But the direction of that storm is not really even the point. Even if it was moving NE it's _not_ common practice for the TV guys to "usually" send people out on to the highways and cause bumper-to-bumper gridlock in any circumstances. I think that Mike Morgan will have to answer to this in a public fashion.


Twitter is really blowing him up it appears. Another video shared...

----------


## Teo9969

> We just need to get away from this calling out EF scale numbers unless they are doing damage assessments as they go - which they typically aren't. Commenting on violent surface rotation or significant/substantial structural damage should be more than enough. Yesterday's dynamics were very good for significant/violent tornadoes - so I'm not sure where you are getting that it was never indicated to be the case? The fact that they did the 2nd PDS watch of the year yesterday seemed to highlight that. 
> 
> The tornado in Moore last night was surveyed with a width of 500 yards...or a quarter mile wide. It's rating? EF0.  Large tornadoes can appear to be violent, but not always the case. Which is why we need to get away from calling our EF scales unless they are able to actually verify the damage being done.


I see what you're saying, but there was, to me, a qualitative difference between the severity of the tornadoes when they were out west, enough so that we could tell 5/20 was going to level everything it's path. Not that it had the *potential* for that, but that it was actually going to obliterate. Maybe I'm making that difference up in my head? I watched News 9 yesterday as opposed to when I watched News 4 yesterday, so that could be the difference.

----------


## venture

Out of the 9 fatalities last night, 7 of them involved people their cars.

----------


## bchris02

> We just need to get away from this calling out EF scale numbers unless they are doing damage assessments as they go - which they typically aren't. Commenting on violent surface rotation or significant/substantial structural damage should be more than enough. Yesterday's dynamics were very good for significant/violent tornadoes - so I'm not sure where you are getting that it was never indicated to be the case? The fact that they did the 2nd PDS watch of the year yesterday seemed to highlight that. 
> 
> The tornado in Moore last night was surveyed with a width of 500 yards...or a quarter mile wide. It's rating? EF0.  Large tornadoes can appear to be violent, but not always the case. Which is why we need to get away from calling our EF scales unless they are able to actually verify the damage being done.


The multi-vortex tornado that touched down in El Reno looked like it was going to become a repeat of the Moore tornado.  With that in mind, I can understand the 'get below ground' pleas and even the 'get out of the way' pleas.  If it would have not lifted and/or kept strengthening, we would have had the Moore situation, but instead of destroying a few square miles, it would have went right into the heart of the most densely populated areas of Oklahoma City.  It would have been a disaster of epic proportions.

----------


## zookeeper

> The multi-vortex tornado that touched down in El Reno looked like it was going to become a repeat of the Moore tornado.  With that in mind,* I can understand the 'get below ground' pleas and even the 'get out of the way' pleas. If it would have not lifted and/or kept strengthening, we would have had the Moore situation, but instead of destroying a few square miles, it would have went right into the heart of the most densely populated areas of Oklahoma City.  It would have been a disaster of epic proportions.*


With thousands of people stuck in their cars on thoroughfares, hiways, Interstates. By the way, plenty, thousands, of people survived May 20th who weren't underground.

----------


## venture

> The multi-vortex tornado that touched down in El Reno looked like it was going to become a repeat of the Moore tornado.  With that in mind, I can understand the 'get below ground' pleas and even the 'get out of the way' pleas.  If it would have not lifted and/or kept strengthening, we would have had the Moore situation, but instead of destroying a few square miles, it would have went right into the heart of the most densely populated areas of Oklahoma City.  It would have been a disaster of epic proportions.


You need to stop watching disaster movies. LOL  The tornadoes don't growl or go after people. When you see a large tornado it should always be followed by "get below ground or into a safe room". However, as Zoo points out, over a thousand homes were completely destroyed in the path of the May 20th EF5. Not everyone was below ground and not everyone left...hundreds if not thousands survived following proper tornado precautions. 

The "Get out of the way" calls should be left for those ALREADY on the roads...not for people to leave a safe structure and go create a traffic jam to people even more at risk.

----------


## Anonymous.

I feel bad for Mike Morgan/KFOR at this point. It is a really bad case of captain hindsights.

----------


## zookeeper

Ok, give me a minute here. Even in this now infamous Mike Morgan video, there is *another* thing he did that is quite questionable. 

Telling people to pick up the phone or knock on your neighbors door if they have a storm shelter is not a good idea. We all need to personally be held responsible to have a plan for ourselves and our immediate family long before a tornado is ten minutes away. To put it bluntly, and meaning no disrespect, it places a tremendous burden on those who DO have shelters as to what to say. If having done the responsible thing and you have a shelter that is for 4-6, and all the neighbors know it, what do you do when they are knocking on your door one after another? At some point, and at a very emotional time, you have to make choices and say yes or no to him or her or the other. A small shelter for you and your family does not equal a community shelter. It's really unfair to these people for Mike Morgan to be on the air telling people to call your neighbors or knock on their doors. You have a shelter that maxes at 6 and all of the sudden you have 20 (or more) following the TV guys advice and it just puts those with personal shelters in an extremely uncomfortable position. They already have that problem without the TV meteorologists jumping in to add gas to the fire. Anybody with shelters know it can be a very stressful thing to have to make these judgement calls. It sometimes means losing jilted neighbors forever. The reality is the personal home shelter can only hold so many people.

----------


## zookeeper

> I feel bad for Mike Morgan/KFOR at this point. It is a really bad case of captain hindsights.


I can see and understand that to a point. But to me, it's more a bad case of poor judgement, saying something that *you know* violates proper procedure, and there's nothing wrong with holding that person accountable. I feel bad in the sense that they know they contributed to something that was just chaotic and deadly, but otherwise they learned a lesson and the "captain hindsights" are just holding them accountable, as they should. This was a monumental miscalculation and lack of judgement.

----------


## Anonymous.

I am not sure if the Gary England account on twitter is forreal or not, but he is openly calling out Mike Morgan.

Does anyone know where the 7 vehicle deaths were? Location wise? I know the Mother/Child combo out in El Reno.


Per media sources it looks like most of the injuries (and I assume deaths) were along I-40 West heading towards Yukon.

*This would mean the people are sitting there since they closed I-40 in Yukon*. Mike Morgan told people to drive south and only mentioned specifically for people to go south on I-44. I would like to see how many deaths were on I-44 from the tornado.


Need more evidence before you can bring out pitchforks, so if anyone knows - please post.


EDIT: After further research - it appears several of the deaths reported are actually from flooding incidents in rural areas.

----------


## zookeeper

> I am not sure if the Gary England account on twitter is forreal or not, but he is openly calling out Mike Morgan.
> 
> Does anyone know where the 7 vehicle deaths were? Location wise? I know the Mother/Child combo out in El Reno.
> 
> 
> Per media sources it looks like most of the injuries (and assuredly deaths) were along I-40 West heading towards Yukon.
> 
> This would mean the people sitting there since they closed I-40 in Yukon. Mike Morgan told people to drive south and only mentioned specifically for people to go south on I-44. I would like to see how many deaths were on I-44 from the tornado.
> 
> ...


Anon, I respect your posting and have a lot of admiration, but I don't think the deaths that happened have to literally be tied to Mike Morgan's poor advice. In a way, as bad and sad as it was it could have been a lot worse had a strong tornado hit I-35, I-44, southbound due to his telling people to head south. I think the point is that he put people into their cars 10 minutes before a tornado and sent them on to the main streets and freeways into a giant parking lot like gridlock. In my opinion, and I stress that, the pitchforks should be out despite whether the people who actually died were killed due to his advice. He put tons of folks on to the streets at the absolutely worst time in the middle of a major American city. What other result could you expect but gridlock and helplessness?

----------


## Anonymous.

You see, we share the same opinion that being on the road is bad. And encouraging it is worse.


Everyone blasting Morgan and KFOR is uncalled for is all. There is no evidence to back it.


Instead this should be about "NEVER GET IN YOUR CAR TO RUN FROM A TORNADO" and not "MIKE MORGAN KILLED 9 PEOPLE AND KFOR SHOULD GO OFF THE AIR FOREVER, IT'S HIS FAULT!"


If you think that is exaggerating, look @ social media right now. Mike Morgan is getting roasted.

----------


## bluedogok

> From MSNBC, Mayor Cornett obviously didn't know that Mike Morgan pleaded with viewers to "go southbound," he was actually on last night along with OEMA people who said they didn't know why people decided to try to flee.
> 
> *I was surprised by that, it came through the metro area six thirty, seven oclock time frame, Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett said on MSNBC, meaning that people should not have been driving home from work.*
> 
> Im wondering if the tornadoes from a couple of weeks ago didnt frighten people so badly that this time they were taking no chances and trying to evade it by car, Cornett said. Thats a very unwise thing to do because it's the absolute worst place you can be during a tornado.


Not everyone leaves work precisely at 5:00 or even works 8:00-5:00, many times I have left the office between 6:30 and 9:00PM or even later.




> Ok, give me a minute here. Even in this now infamous Mike Morgan video, there is *another* thing he did that is quite questionable. 
> 
> Telling people to pick up the phone or knock on your neighbors door if they have a storm shelter is not a good idea. We all need to personally be held responsible to have a plan for ourselves and our immediate family long before a tornado is ten minutes away. To put it bluntly, and meaning no disrespect, it places a tremendous burden on those who DO have shelters as to what to say. If having done the responsible thing and you have a shelter that is for 4-6, and all the neighbors know it, what do you do when they are knocking on your door one after another? At some point, and at a very emotional time, you have to make choices and say yes or no to him or her or the other. A small shelter for you and your family does not equal a community shelter. It's really unfair to these people for Mike Morgan to be on the air telling people to call your neighbors or knock on their doors. You have a shelter that maxes at 6 and all of the sudden you have 20 (or more) following the TV guys advice and it just puts those with personal shelters in an extremely uncomfortable position. They already have that problem without the TV meteorologists jumping in to add gas to the fire. Anybody with shelters know it can be a very stressful thing to have to make these judgement calls. It sometimes means losing jilted neighbors forever. The reality is the personal home shelter can only hold so many people.


My sister lives in Bethany and went to my cousin's house in Mustang because he has a shelter but he also had an open invite and she called to make sure he was there before. She has a rental house so she can't put a shelter in. I do agree that you just don't wander up to a neighbor you do not know and knock on the door hoping to get into one.


The fatality out on I-40 by El Reno/Union City is a bit more easy to understand than one in OKC or Moore, they might have just been on the highway not knowing what was dropping down on top of them. Many people also tend to think of the interstates as the only way to get around town, after living in Dallas before their highway expansions the surface streets were a much faster way of getting around there.

----------


## OKCTalker

There was an excellent segment on this evening's "All Things Considered" program on KGOU & KOSU (available at NPR.org). The reporter was Wade Goodwyn, and he differentiated between sheltering in place and making a run for it. The concensus was its best to get in your car and run away from the storm's path, but only if you have a clear path and adequate time. Otherwise, shelter in place. Last night's virtual citywide gridlock was the worst possible scenario. 

Interviewed was Rick Smith, Warning Coordination Specialist at the National Weather Service. He said that a better tornado safety precaution guideline needs to be addressed, but there is no single best plan when tornadoes are coming.

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## JamesFiend

> Not everyone leaves work precisely at 5:00 or even works 8:00-5:00, many times I have left the office between 6:30 and 9:00PM or even later.


This. I'm glad somebody else mentioned it because I was starting to feel like a terrible person for having to be out on the roads trying to get home. My wife and I don't get off until 6pm and share one car. Everyone acting like the city should've been on lock down by 4pm needs to realize that some employers simply aren't down to close up shop because something may or may not happen.

Was also kind of annoyed by the reporter on 9, Steve Shaw I think, who after the event was standing in the street making overly sarcastic observations about people trying to cross flooded streets and then getting in their face to try and sass them if they made it through. If it's that bad, how about helping out and trying to stop them before hand?

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## okcboomer

Could this be the beginning of the end for Mike?

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## Spartan

I remember one year that I think Mike Morgan's penchant for drama took aim at the Big 12 bball tourney at the Ford Center one year, when he was predicting (hoping for?) a Siberian barrage that ended up being 2 inches. It killed the tourney and Bricktown's traffic.

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## yukong

Well, I must be in the minority...at the age of 53, I never in my life have been a hunker down and shelter in place kind of guy.  As a young kid, living at 24th and Vila, and even back in the 60s and 70s, we always loaded up and drove the opposite direction from the anticipated path.  My dad was always of the opinion that if he could see the storm he could avoid it.  I guess that goes back to the days we didn't have wall to wall coverage with spotters and live streaming video from spotters.  I guess that is ingrained in me as that is how I feel.  We leave in Surrey Hills.  We don't have a shelter.  When they initially were calling out the storm, one of its potential paths was toward Surrey.  We drove into town and parked in a parking garage at Baptist in the partially underground portion.  There were literally 1000s of people there an in the hospital.  I will always vote to get out before I will hunker down.  Stupid maybe, but that is how I feel.  We are considering a shelter, but cannot decide what kind to get.  Not crazy about the in-floor one in the garage as I don't want to cut my slab.  So, we are trying to decide on a safe room or an outside cellar.  But ever since the Piedmont tornado 2 years ago where the family hunkered down in the center bath tub and the storm sucked out the 2 kids...well, I'm not a hunker down guy.  I prefer the flee and avoid.  I for one do not fault Mike Morgasm.  

Now to change to something more interesting...have any of you seen the video where Emily Sutton drives into a ditch and Kevin Josefy curses her?  Great video.  She should not be driving.  If they want her to chase...they need to give her someone that can drive and talk at the same time.  I love Emily...but she has not been very stellar in her chasing.     Terrifying drive through tornado ends in car landing in ditch - YouTube

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## SoonerDave

> There was an excellent segment on this evening's "All Things Considered" program on KGOU & KOSU (available at NPR.org). The reporter was Wade Goodwyn, and he differentiated between sheltering in place and making a run for it. The concensus was its best to get in your car and run away from the storm's path, but only if you have a clear path and adequate time. Otherwise, shelter in place. Last night's virtual citywide gridlock was the worst possible scenario. 
> 
> *Interviewed was Rick Smith, Warning Coordination Specialist at the National Weather Service. He said that a better tornado safety precaution guideline needs to be addressed, but there is no single best plan when tornadoes are coming.*


At last, sanity prevails. I was engaged in a pseudo Twitter war (well, discussion) with someone who was suggesting that the NWS and broadcast media should develop standardized, approved warning terms and messages, and the nightmare I heard in my head was this huge bureaucracy churning pointlessly to define the "right" weather warning terms, forcing broadcasters to adopt a federally-standardized playbook of terminology. I could just see local forecasters poring through some "approved book of terms" to say the right thing all while people are in harm's way.

I have my own personal distaste for Mike Morgan, primarily because he is exactly the kind of fear merchant that gives good weather forecasters a bad name, and he's been that way for most of his tenure in this market. Others have noted the same thing. But what I will say in his defense in this particular instance is that he is not addressing one, ten, or a hundred people when he goes wall-to-wall; he's addressing several hundred _thousand_ people. Some of those are minutes, even seconds away from a tornado. Telling _them_ to get in a car is foolish. Others are an _hour_ away. Telling _them_ to get in a car is....very iffy, but _not_ unilaterally subject to condemnation.

I did not hear the specific warning or admonition to get out that is getting all the attention, so I can't comment on it directly, but in the broader context of Morgan's career as a hype machine, that he did this is not surprising. But what he's done in that broader career to me is every bit if not more offensive to the notion of weather warnings as what happened last night. Put a different way, do we honestly think there _wouldn't_ have been the same gridlock last night had he _not_ issued his warning? People are going to evade a catastrophe if they think that is their only option, Mike Morgan notwithstanding.

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## Jim Kyle

> Mike Morgan is getting roasted.


Deservedly so, in my opinion. I suspect that Stan Lee invented the line "With great power goes great responsibility" but whoever said it first, it's true -- and Mike failed that responsibility. Consequently his power should be removed.

As for the nine deaths, the best information I've seen is that the seven in vehicles were all from the initial incident on I40 way west of El Reno, when out-of-state drivers who possibly had no knowledge at all of the situation  unknowingly drove right into a rain-wrapped EF3. Unfortunate as that was, it's simply the luck of the draw.

The gridlock after Mike's irresponsible plea is a completely different situation.

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## kevinpate

Maybe puttin Morgan and Payne together in a chaser rig, with Sutton driving, could resolve several issues at once?

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## bluedogok

> I remember one year that I think Mike Morgan's penchant for drama took aim at the Big 12 bball tourney at the Ford Center one year, when he was predicting (hoping for?) a Siberian barrage that ended up being 2 inches. It killed the tourney and Bricktown's traffic.


The weather people catch all kinds of crap about the snow storms that blow through here, someone in Westminster will gripe if they only got 2" of snow if a foot was forecast, well we got 14" out here in Aurora so somewhere in this large city the report was pretty danged close. It seems people gripe for the sake of griping and don't understand what predictions really mean. If they underpredict (which happened a couple of times this year) they get crap, the same thing if they overpredict, people seem to think a forecast is an exact science when it is far from that, it is at best a well educated guess.

----------


## SOONER8693

> Could this be the beginning of the end for Mike?


Many of the people I know, refer to him as Mike Morgasm and consider him a "fear" monger. Everything with him is or is going to be the biggest, fastest, hottest, coldest, worst, wettest, dryest, you get the point. I wish Ch 4 would go another  direction, as it appears it is already rubbing off on Emily Sutton. It's all about grabbing and holding the audience with that bunch at 4.

----------


## Easy180

> Many of the people I know, refer to him as Mike Morgasm and consider him a "fear" monger. Everything with him is or is going to be the biggest, fastest, hottest, coldest, worst, wettest, dryest, you get the point. I wish Ch 4 would go another  direction, as it appears it is already rubbing off on Emily Sutton. It's all about grabbing and holding the audience with that bunch at 4.


They have recently set a new world record of describing tornados as violent...We all kinda know that by now

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## bluedogok

Even a little one is violent if you are in its way.....

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## SomeGuy

I remember one time when I was watching KFOR a year ago during a severe weather outbreak I believe Morgan has said this a few times, but he said something in the lines of " This storm is coming your way your time is up". I watch KOCO because the storm chasers and the meteorologists are calm and don't freak everybody out

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## Jon27

I know this wasn't smart, but we ran from the storm.  However, I've lived in the Yukon/Mustang area for the majority of my life.  When a wall cloud forms from the SW going NE, when it hits Canadian County, it has been known several times to move East, then start drifting to the SE.  Knowing this, we went to the Love's in Guthrie off of I-35.  The storms were moving out of Logan county while we were heading that way.  Mustang Rd to get on I-40 was packed.  We took NW 10th, and got on Kilpatrick.  Just had rain in Guthrie.  Waited there for over 2 hours.  There were several others that showed up there that did the same thing.  That being said, a storm shelter will be put in hopefully by the end of the year.  The tornado touched down just a little over 5 miles west of our house.  Had it not have started moving south, would've been terrible.  I have heard there is an old indian legend that Yukon is at the fork of 2 rivers, therefore will never be hit by a tornado.

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## OKCisOK4me

I watch News9 cause they don't have Jessica Schambaugh.

----------


## bchris02

I always prefer listening to Mike. He may be the most sensational but he's also the most accurate. Damon Lane earlier this week said he didn't think we would see a huge outbreak with this three-day system and to not worry. Mike was forecasting severe weather as far back as last week and was the first to say Friday was going to be the most dangerous day. He is the best forecaster we have in the OKC metro and I hope he doesn't lose his job.

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## boscorama

* like  *




> sometimes i wonder if we need a better way to shut down interstates when severe weather is crossing. Now i am thrilled that odot finally pulled their heads out and posted a weather alert on the large signs. However, i still think they need to be posting things like "tornado watch until 12am" or "tornado warning oklahoma county"...something to just get in the drivers faces of stay alert or even don't proceed and find shelter. Heck maybe the digital billboards should show live radar or something to. Who knows.

----------


## boscorama

Like




> Ok, give me a minute here. Even in this now infamous Mike Morgan video, there is *another* thing he did that is quite questionable. 
> 
> Telling people to pick up the phone or knock on your neighbors door if they have a storm shelter is not a good idea. We all need to personally be held responsible to have a plan for ourselves and our immediate family long before a tornado is ten minutes away. To put it bluntly, and meaning no disrespect, it places a tremendous burden on those who DO have shelters as to what to say. If having done the responsible thing and you have a shelter that is for 4-6, and all the neighbors know it, what do you do when they are knocking on your door one after another? At some point, and at a very emotional time, you have to make choices and say yes or no to him or her or the other. A small shelter for you and your family does not equal a community shelter. It's really unfair to these people for Mike Morgan to be on the air telling people to call your neighbors or knock on their doors. You have a shelter that maxes at 6 and all of the sudden you have 20 (or more) following the TV guys advice and it just puts those with personal shelters in an extremely uncomfortable position. They already have that problem without the TV meteorologists jumping in to add gas to the fire. Anybody with shelters know it can be a very stressful thing to have to make these judgement calls. It sometimes means losing jilted neighbors forever. The reality is the personal home shelter can only hold so many people.

----------


## venture

> I watch News9 cause they don't have Jessica Schambaugh.


Well...they have Amanda Taylor who is HORRIBLE. They need to fire her and get Robin Marsh to take her rightful (and long earned) spot as Co-Anchor of primetime.

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## yukong

Sad news...just saw a release that 3 of those killed in El Reno were storm chasers.  One was the well known and renowned Tim Samaras from the Discovery show Storm Chasers.  His son and a crew member were also killed.  Tim was considered one of the safest and most cautious of chasers.  Sad, sad, beyond sad.  I really admired Tim and his work.

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## venture

> Sad news...just saw a release that 3 of those killed in El Reno were storm chasers.  One was the well known and renowned Tim Samaras from the Discovery show Storm Chasers.  His son and a crew member were also killed.  Tim was considered one of the safest and most cautious of chasers.  Sad, sad, beyond sad.  I really admired Tim and his work.


Saw that this morning as well. There are just some storms that aren't worth chasing. HP/rain wrapped sups are one of those in my book. If I can't see things clearly a couple miles out, with plenty of escape routes, I don't mess with it. Too many put themselves in position to get overtaken by the storm.

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## yukong

Well, word is now that they were killed because they got "stuck in storm chaser convergence."  I guess that is too many chasers in too small a place without adequate escape routes.  Just so sad.  I heard he refused to chase the May 20th storm because he thought it was going to be unsafe.

----------


## Uncle Slayton

> You see, we share the same opinion that being on the road is bad. And encouraging it is worse.
> 
> 
> Everyone blasting Morgan and KFOR is uncalled for is all. There is no evidence to back it.
> 
> 
> Instead this should be about "NEVER GET IN YOUR CAR TO RUN FROM A TORNADO" and not "MIKE MORGAN KILLED 9 PEOPLE AND KFOR SHOULD GO OFF THE AIR FOREVER, IT'S HIS FAULT!"
> 
> 
> If you think that is exaggerating, look @ social media right now. Mike Morgan is getting roasted.


Mike Morgan  has some roasting coming and he should feel a medium-high fire under his butt.  That being said, I agree with the comments about storm shelters and cars as refuge.  Mike Morgan bears, ultimately, no more responsibility for your personal safety at the individual level if you get killed by the weather, even if you took a suggestion or acted on a comment he made, than he owes you for your ruined food if you ignore him and your cookout gets rained out. 

You alone are responsible to be an active agent in your own safety and those in your care. This means plan, prepare, practice, execute and have contingencies.  Sure, there are going to be times when you are caught by an impossible-to-predict event, that's life, but this thing went PDS around mid-afternoon and most of us who didn't live in a cave knew days in advance it was could be dicey.  

Morgan is a crier of doom that would be better suited, perhaps, to a street corner with a sandwich board than a broadcast studio, but he didn't put the individual keys in the ignitions.  

Is it possible that some of what he said last Friday led people to make decisions that cost lives?  Yes.  Is he responsible for their deaths?  No.  

They're weather forecasters, not life coaches, therapists, stock brokers  (although that is more operationally akin to what they do).  Guess they're going to have to run a disclaimer with every tornado warning that says "taking our advice is no guarantee against injury or death."  

As for the urging people to go find a storm shelter or whatever, the response was perfect.  There's a guy two houses down who has a storm shelter that for some reason half the neighborhood feels is 'theirs' and he's too nice to say no, so his cellar is always crowded.  How do you say no to the 92 year old woman who can barely walk, or the family of six, etc? 

I have been invited a couple times but always politely declined because 1) it's his and for his family, and 2) I'm not going to leave my dog (another decision for which I'm responsible and which could cost me my life. I'm ok with that...no one wants to be in a confined space with a 130 pound dog w/ gas, and he's too good a friend to leave).

----------


## Anonymous.

Wow. I am truly saddened. I cannot believe Tim was killed. What a great guy he was. I am still in shock.

----------


## Anonymous.

> Does anyone know where the 7 vehicle deaths were? Location wise? I know the Mother/Child combo out in El Reno.
> 
> 
> Per media sources it looks like most of the injuries (and I assume deaths) were along I-40 West heading towards Yukon.
> 
> *This would mean the people are sitting there since they closed I-40 in Yukon*. Mike Morgan told people to drive south and only mentioned specifically for people to go south on I-44. I would like to see how many deaths were on I-44 from the tornado.
> 
> 
> Need more evidence before you can bring out pitchforks, so if anyone knows - please post.
> ...




Just to set some things straight here on the Morgan pitchforking.

*Of the 7 confirmed vehicle deaths:*

Mother and baby out in El Reno on I-40. 2 deaths
Tim and chaser crew just south of I-40. 3 deaths
Associated rural flooding. 2 deaths

This is what is confirmed, and I think there are still people who are missing in flood waters.


So there has been no confirmed deaths on I-44 or associated southbound traffic areas out of OKC area in which Morgan told people to drive to if they could.


Evidence is a b!tch when it doesn't support your personal pitchforking agendas. Yes Mike was incorrrect and it could have been worse. But using these people above as examples of who Mike put in danger is incorrect.

----------


## venture

> Well, word is now that they were killed because they got "stuck in storm chaser convergence."  I guess that is too many chasers in too small a place without adequate escape routes.  Just so sad.  I heard he refused to chase the May 20th storm because he thought it was going to be unsafe.


I'm really biting my tongue a lot on all of this news and the videos coming out. Why would you ever get to the E or SE of a rotation knowing what the wind profiles were that day. Not to mention, why would you be on the north side of it with baseballs falling and the chance if the circulation occludes it's coming back at you. Just a sad situation all around. I think greed for getting that amazing video is finally starting to be paid back. Not saying that is the case for those killed, but honestly - sometimes it is not worth it to put yourself in that position. ESPECIALLY...in a larger populated area where you know locals and the flood of chasers (which happens with any OKC area storm) are going to clog roads.

Sad sad sad.

----------


## soonerliberal

> I'm so glad zookeeper mentioned this and I think it needs to be repeated over and over again, the vast, vast majority of the people who ride out even an F4-F5 tornado in their bathtub will survive.  There will be horrible stories, but the risk of telling a collective city to leave their home, get in a car, and congest the local roads and highways is far greater than giving them sound advice to sheltering in place.


People need to be reminded of this by all... In any storm, your chances of surviving in a bathtub are much higher than your chances in a Camry.

----------


## yukong

The web site, theweatherspace.com has an article out wherein they postulate from info they have that Tim and crew were caught in a group of chasers and "tornado paparazzi" (my editorializing there) when the tornado moved from a direct eastern track to an almost due north track.  In other words, they were running parallel to the tornado when it turned into them and because of the crowd and the limited space on the roadway, they couldn't get out.  They posted this photo...

They claim the area circled in pink is where the team was when the storm turned back on them.

----------


## damonsmuz

Just a heads up on theweatherspace.com  DON'T GO TO THE SITE (now that I say that you probably will). The kid that runs the site has had many run-ins w/ the NWS. He issues his own warnings and watches, says he's far more accurate than the NWS and claims that the NWS is trying to sue him, etc. It's gotten to the point that the NWS had to issue a statement to the public to be very careful about the site (Kevin Martin is the dude that runs it)

In other words I wouldn't trust a single thing from that site...

----------


## venture

> Just a heads up on theweatherspace.com  DON'T GO TO THE SITE (now that I say that you probably will). The kid that runs the site has had many run-ins w/ the NWS. He issues his own warnings and watches, says he's far more accurate than the NWS and claims that the NWS is trying to sue him, etc. It's gotten to the point that the NWS had to issue a statement to the public to be very careful about the site (Kevin Martin is the dude that runs it)
> 
> In other words I wouldn't trust a single thing from that site...


I figured it was your own  personal site?  :Wink:  I KID!

----------


## damonsmuz

Venture... good one. Even im not that cray cray  :Smile:  

BTW, here is the statement from the NWS regarding that kid

NOUS41 KWBC 081429

----------


## yukong

Well that's interesting.  I had no idea.  I got the link for the site from the Denver Post.  Since Tim was from Colorado and did work with a Denver TV station, I figured the Post would be reliable.  They quote the story on Theweatherspace.com and provide a link.  I had never seen that web site before today.  I'm glad you pointed this out.  But, I figure the story is probably close to right regarding what happened to Tim.

----------


## jn1780

> Well that's interesting.  I had no idea.  I got the link for the site from the Denver Post.  Since Tim was from Colorado and did work with a Denver TV station, I figured the Post would be reliable.  They quote the story on Theweatherspace.com and provide a link.  I had never seen that web site before today.  I'm glad you pointed this out.  But, I figure the story is probably close to right regarding what happened to Tim.


The Denver Post should be ashamed of themselves to linking to that wackos site. He just wrote an article based on what he read from other sources on the internet. I found it especially funny how he said Tim emailed him after every chase. I really doubt that.

----------


## Uncle Slayton

The scientist in me has to ask, and I mean no offense or disrespect to those who may have known Tim and his crew, but given the preponderance of digital media everywhere, what is the likelihood that cameras were rolling when the team got hit (ala Steve Irwin)? 

I do remember him on the show and he seemed a voice of reason and sanity among the Imax guy and people yelling "DOMINATE!" Truly sorry he met his end this way.

----------


## RadicalModerate

> The scientist in me has to ask, and I mean no offense or disrespect to those who may have known Tim and his crew, but given the *preponderance of digital media everywhere*, what is the likelihood that cameras were rolling when the team got hit (ala Steve Irwin)? 
> 
> I do remember him on the show and he seemed a voice of reason and sanity among the Imax guy and people yelling "DOMINATE!" Truly sorry he met his end this way.


There is "preponderance" (e.g. Mike Morgasms)  and then there is "postponderance" (usually 20/20 according to "myth")
Somewhere in between there is dealing with reality such as not getting stuck in a traffic jam or watermelon sized hailstorm in an attempt to dodge a tornado.  I guess that would simply be called "ponderance" . . . 

(and what _about_ those flooded underground storm cellars in some isolated locations, not all of them?)

I will say this: The other night I was nearly as nervous as Steve Irwin in a tank full of manta rays
(and I decided not to go looking for trouble while hoping it didn't come to me.)

----------


## Uncle Slayton

> There is "preponderance" (e.g. Mike Morgasms)  and then there is "postponderance" (usually 20/20 according to "myth")
> Somewhere in between there is dealing with reality such as not getting stuck in a traffic jam or watermelon sized hailstorm in an attempt to dodge a tornado.  I guess that would simply be called "ponderance" . . . 
> 
> (and what _about_ those flooded underground storm cellars in some isolated locations, not all of them?)
> 
> I will say this: The other night I was nearly as nervous as Steve Irwin in a tank full of manta rays
> (and I decided not to go looking for trouble while hoping it didn't come to me.)


It's quite likely I misused that word...it's been a long weekend.  What I meant was cameras everywhere.  Everyone w/ a smart phone is now a 'storm chaser' and wants their video to go viral.  (I did misuse it...shoulda picked something like 'plethora' et al). 

I adopted your strategy.  The Redhead was in Chicago attending a graduation and all but made me perform a blood oath inside a circle of salt that I would not chase.  Even with that, I had the keys in my hand and was getting in the truck, but this storm _felt_ wrong, so I went back in the house and watched from the sidelines.

----------


## RadicalModerate

> It's quite likely I misused that word....


You may have misused that word . . . but i invented the other two so we're even. or odd. whatever.
Personally I feel that the only things dumber than a yammering TV weatherman suggesting people drive for their lives are those who accepted the directive.  (professional storm chasers and manta ray teasers excepted, of course).

Naturally, those quips should be filed under "Postponderance."
(closest i ever got to a relatively big tornado was at the intersection of Post Road and Jones/Spencer Road. i obeyed the Stop Sign. glad i did: almost got creamed by a herd o' storm chasers speeding toward the Hogback Rd. to Luther . . . dang. sure glad for ponderance at the post . . . )

----------


## OKCTalker

UncleSlayton - May I ask what you had to contribute by going into the storm? Do you gather data on behalf of meteorological agencies, are you a first responder, or is it for the thrill?

----------


## venture

Well the heat is just going to get turned up even more tomorrow - I assume this story will be in the paper.

Oklahoma tornadoes: Why did so many people flee their homes Friday? | News OK

Guess whose mug is plastered right at the top of the story...

----------


## OKCisOK4me

At 6:15, I went north--from my work.  I'm not going to blame Mike Morgan for this.  He didn't tell people to hide in freaking drainage ditches/storm pipes.  Not to be non sensitive, but that's their own damn fault.

----------


## venture

> At 6:15, I went north--from my work.  I'm not going to blame Mike Morgan for this.  He didn't tell people to hide in freaking drainage ditches/storm pipes.  Not to be non sensitive, but that's their own damn fault.


Agree. I know we say get in a ditch if you have nowhere else to go. However, getting into a drain pipe that is meant to funnel the storm runoff is not smart.

----------


## jn1780

I saw a KFOR "We're Your Lifeguard" weather promo that uses footage of Morgan telling people that they need to be either out of the way or below ground. It starts at 1:05 mark in the video Venture posted in #118. 

So yeah, apparently instead of keeping quiet KFOR is doubling down. They did leave the most obvious dumb part out about driving south.

I do hope none of the people who made the bad decision to get into a storm drain were not out and about because of Morgan. Otherwise, calling yourself a lifeguard would be a highly unfortunate choice of word.

----------


## SoonerQueen

We ended up going to the Waterford Hotel parking garage. It was packed with more cars than there were parking spaces. I felt safe there  because it is a little underground and we were in the middle. My husband on the other hand was at work on the south side, and was one of those people that ended up on I35 heading south. It was nice to see him at almost midnight when he finally got home. Crazy night all the way around.

----------


## SoonerDave

> Well the heat is just going to get turned up even more tomorrow - I assume this story will be in the paper.
> 
> Oklahoma tornadoes: Why did so many people flee their homes Friday? | News OK
> 
> Guess whose mug is plastered right at the top of the story...


He who lives by the hype...........

----------


## BlackmoreRulz

Emily said earlier that amateurs shouldn't be out chasing storms, does that mean she will no longer be out chasing?

----------


## kelroy55

> Emily said earlier that amateurs shouldn't be out chasing storms, does that mean she will no longer be out chasing?


I think she has more qualifications than a majority of people out there.

----------


## RadicalModerate

> Emily said earlier that amateurs shouldn't be out chasing storms, does that mean she will no longer be out chasing?


Heh, heh, heh  (good one!)

So . . . Doesn't this suggest the question: When does one become a *professional* storm chaser? 
"Hey, Bob, I'll give you a dollar if'n you chase that there tornado . . ."  
"OK"

----------


## Anonymous.

> Just to set some things straight here on the Morgan pitchforking.
> 
> *Of the 7 confirmed vehicle deaths:*
> 
> Mother and baby out in El Reno on I-40. 2 deaths
> Tim and chaser crew just south of I-40. 3 deaths
> Associated rural flooding. 2 deaths
> 
> This is what is confirmed, and I think there are still people who are missing in flood waters.
> ...





Quoting myself from earlier for updates....


Now almost everyone who was struck by the tornado and killed was towards the El Reno I-40 corridor. All other deaths are from people who were swept away in flood waters.

Mike Morgan is the lightning rod for all of these people making poor decisions. STOP spreading false information. In fact, at least 4 of the 'tornado' deaths are from "chasers". Also I have yet to see any evidence about how people who were on south I-44 (Like Mike Morgan suggested) have been killed.


That article in the paper is a joke. And the comments below it just echo the misinformation about this whole ordeal. Sad situation for Mike and KFOR.

----------


## venture

> Quoting myself from earlier for updates....
> 
> Now almost everyone who was struck by the tornado and killed was towards the El Reno I-40 corridor. All other deaths are from people who were swept away in flood waters.
> 
> Mike Morgan is the lightning rod for all of these people making poor decisions. STOP spreading false information. In fact, at least 4 of the 'tornado' deaths are from "chasers". Also I have yet to see any evidence about how people who were on south I-44 (Like Mike Morgan suggested) have been killed.
> 
> That article in the paper is a joke. And the comments below it just echo the misinformation about this whole ordeal. Sad situation for Mike and KFOR.


I guess one way to look at it, how many more people were out driving trying to fleet the tornado when the bigger threat was the flash flooding? There by all the additional congestion just created an extremely bad situation when it came to dealing with a city (like most cities) that simply can't handle 6-9 inches of rain in an evening. 

If anything the takeaway needs to be - stay put and take shelter. Getting in a car and trying to flee is foolish unless you have a significant lead time with uncongested roads. Driving exposes the person to so many additional hazards - hail, flooding, other drivers, etc.

I'm not sure where the fallout regarding Morgan and KFOR will end up.The heat is definitely on. As far as the comment about Emily Sutton and amateur chasers. 1) Everyone has to start somewhere. 2) Being educated in meteorology does NOT make you a good storm chaser. You are dealing with much more pressure when dealing with road navigation and avoiding hazards all while processing what the storm is doing to be in the correct position. I liken the skills closer to what it takes to being a pilot more than anything. Scanning multiple sources of information while stay observant of all your surroundings and looking ahead slight to anticipate what is to come. 

Sutton backing up into a ditch, being in the wrong position, and the like shows that while she may have the meteorology nailed down - she should not be driving. She can't focus on the other aspects of the act without making repeated errors. Let he chase...but have someone else drive who will concentrate on it more. When I was more actively chasing, the guy I chased with did the driving and I sat shotgun so I could focus on the storm. I've done it all before and had no issue with it, but to me it was a more logical and comfortable (and safer) setup.

----------


## Anonymous.

Yup. Even better is a setup of 3 people.

Driver. 
Navigator/Data analyst.
Camera work.

I think most of the local media crews go in pairs. With a driver (who is also the data analyst) and then a photo journalist for camera work obviously.

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## kevinpate

In a non storm thread a while back, someone posted frustration over reaching folks by cell and when asked what they were doing, the replies were along the lines of taking the kids for ice cream, picking up dry cleaning, heading over to bobs, going to try a new diner, but almost never, ever was it I'm driving my car right now.
If ever a driver needed to be focused on being a driver, it's when the person next to him or her is watching a storm spiral down or toward them ... or, remembering a Paxton/Hunt scene ... tracking cows.  It's really gotta be tough to accurately count cows and drive at the same time. 

So remember, friends don't let drivers count cows.

----------


## SoonerDave

> Quoting myself from earlier for updates....
> 
> 
> Now almost everyone who was struck by the tornado and killed was towards the El Reno I-40 corridor. All other deaths are from people who were swept away in flood waters.
> 
> Mike Morgan is the lightning rod for all of these people making poor decisions. STOP spreading false information. In fact, at least 4 of the 'tornado' deaths are from "chasers". Also I have yet to see any evidence about how people who were on south I-44 (Like Mike Morgan suggested) have been killed.
> 
> 
> That article in the paper is a joke. And the comments below it just echo the misinformation about this whole ordeal. Sad situation for Mike and KFOR.


Anon, in general I understand where you're coming from, and had Morgan _limited_  his advice to a more generic "get out of the way," I think he'd be entitled to a pass. But the audio I've heard clearly has him _listing the routes and roads to take to evade the tornado._ Whether none or 100 died as a result of taking the advice isn't relevant - the greater point is that I can't fathom any legit met in this market (or any other, for that matter) endorsing that kind of advice.

In all honesty, much as I personally don't care for Morgan's antics _in general_, I'd originally opted to give him a break on this because I'd not heard what he said, and assumed the fallout was an overreaction to a general suggestion on the order of "getting out of town" well before the storm arrived, thinking in terms of _hours._ Nothing wrong with that. Heck, lots of folks _did_ that. But when I heard that audio clip, which I have no reason to believe was doctored, my opinion changed. There was really no mistaking that the direction was for people to flee by vehicle, and to take these routes to do it, while tornado warnings were all flying. I can't get on board with that, even if _no one_ heeded it.

I know you respect Mike Morgan, and I certainly have no intent to start any kind of disagreement/fight/flamewar of any kind, but I do hope you can at least respect my perspective on this.

----------


## Anonymous.

Of course I respect that perspective, I share the same one. He should NOT have given that advice. That day in chat I actually posted multiple times that local media needed to stop telling people to drive away. I am in total agreeance that fleeing by vehicle is wrong.


Some of you are missing my point. My vendetta is against the people using the death-spin as a result of Mike's suggestions. Which is false. Plain and simple. KFOR is getting blamed for all of these people making decisions on their own free will when they knew the situation around them and their immediate traffic area. Not only is there lacking evidence to suggest that Mike's suggestions killed or injured people - but the evidence that WE KNOW AS OF NOW actually points to the opposite.


On May 20th, Mike Morgan also told people to "get below ground or get out of the way" as the tornado took aim on Moore. Where was the outcry then? Oh because the tornado actually did destroy large numbers of neighborhoods it was okay then? Did people actually survive by fleeing?

Captain hindsights.


Weather to our understanding is very random - and the only thing to do is be prepared and have a plan. That's it. Quit looking for blame.

----------


## OKCTalker

I was at home hunkered down, flipping between 4, 5 and 9, seeing if I needed to go to the nearby shelter (I didn't). The worst was when KWTV broadcast their helicopter shot from south of downtown looking north, and framed in the shot were the "parking lots" on Santa Fe, Shields and I-35, with the storm bearing down on them from the west. There were thousands of people there, fully-exposed sitting ducks, waiting for nature to have its way with them. Thank God that the storm didn't stay on the ground or there could easily be hundreds dead and thousands injured. 

Those weren't people still driving home from work seeking the shelter of their homes. Those were people who left the safety of their homes because Mike Morgan told them to. And when the tornado didn't get them, they were left exposed to the flood waters, power lines, open manholes and blocked roads. A hundred panicked people stormed into a convenience store, breaking the glass front door. 

Is this acceptable - scaring unprepared, unequipped people out into a storm at night?

----------


## Anonymous.

That question has been answered numerous times in this thread.

Everyone agrees that it is incorrect to suggest to, and flee in a vehicle without adequate time and traffic situations.

----------


## rezman

> I think she has more qualifications than a majority of people out there.



 She does a fine job as a weather caster, but she has allowed herself  to be a part of the Oklahoma City 4 5 9 weather hype machine, which is a complete turn off for me. I go to any one of the local TV stations for basic weather information, and  then I can figure the rest out on my own. 

And no, she should not be out storm chasing.

----------


## TaoMaas

Something that I haven't seen mentioned much in the discussion about Friday's storms was the amount of media build-up prior to the storms.  Pretty much every weather outlet (local and national) was saying, "Oh...there's gonna be a big one today!"  The local stations had even gone into wall-to-wall coverage before anything really even formed!  So of course folks freaked out.  They'd been hyped up to that point for a couple of days leading up to the event.

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## SOONER8693

> Something that I haven't seen mentioned much in the discussion about Friday's storms was the amount of media build-up prior to the storms.  Pretty much every weather outlet (local and national) was saying, "Oh...there's gonna be a big one today!"  The local stations had even gone into wall-to-wall coverage before anything really even formed!  So of course folks freaked out.  They'd been hyped up to that point for a couple of days leading up to the event.


Agree 100%. The media these days, local especially, have reached the point, where they get most everyone in almost an "apocolyptic" mindset before incoming weather events. Whether it be winter storms, severe thunder/tornadic producing storms, they(media) are responsible for the most part in people buying up food and goods way in advance of weather. And in many cases the weather never materializes. It is not uncommon now for groups and organizations to cancel events several days in advance of what "might" be coming.  Somebody or somebodies need to step back and get this under control or it will just keep getting worse.

----------


## venture

> Agree 100%. The media these days, local especially, have reached the point, where they get most everyone in almost an "apocolyptic" mindset before incoming weather events. Whether it be winter storms, severe thunder/tornadic producing storms, they(media) are responsible for the most part in people buying up food and goods way in advance of weather. And in many cases the weather never materializes. It is not uncommon now for groups and organizations to cancel events several days in advance of what "might" be coming.  Somebody or somebodies need to step back and get this under control or it will just keep getting worse.


I did not have a problem with some of the stations starting wall to wall coverage early on Friday. Why? CAPE values were crazy, the cap was ready to break, and every indication was that whatever went up could go from nothing to severe in 15-30 minutes. The tornado risk was already especially high and the main objective was to make sure people were off the roads after 4PM. Unfortunately most people don't use common sense when dealing with the information being presented to them and freak out or use some jaded biased way of thinking that they consider accurate but isn't.

As far as this areas reaction to incoming winter storms. Well this sums it up...



In most cases here recently  the bigger events have been pretty spot on about them happening. Some people think that just because your location didn't get much more than a dusting, but 20 miles away got over a foot of snow, that the entire forecast busted. That just highlights their ignorance when it comes to margins of error and snowfall forecasts...let alone ANY forecast. We look at forecast models, and I post a lot of them in the weather thread, showing where the best chances of storms popping up are. However, I always preface everything that there is always a margin of error. In the chats when I post the HRRR's simulated reflectivity (radar) images I always say - ignore the placement of the storms. What to look for is that - "hey , for the last 5 runs now it shows a line of storms... I guess that is a good indication that we could see something similar." Then you take that idea of this is what it will probably look like later but then remember that the placement could be off by 50 to 100 miles depending on how things setup that day. 

Does the OKC media take it overboard? I'm not sure. The TV ratings back it up that the vast majority of the metros tunes in and wants to know what is going on. If we didn't see massive viewership numbers than they would back off some.

----------


## venture

One other thing that I want to add about the media, and perhaps maybe one of them can chime in...

We tend to see a lot of tornadoes being reported on air, but never see a storm report actually get filed on it. Are they actually reporting these in a storm report to the NWS or are they just assuming that they are listening to the TV and will capture it themselves?

I'm just think of the Kingfisher County tornado Friday that KWTV had a live video stream of but nothing was ever put in on a LSR.

----------


## foodiefan

I concur that the OKC coverage is pretty extreme. . .but, happened to be in Tulsa last Thursday when the line of storms blew through there (BA/Owasso tornado).   I have been "advised" that they (Tulsa area) don't have the number/intensity of storms that we have and that they split at the river and don't hit Tulsa so they don't have the experienced coverage that we do. . .but seems to me a lot track right up I-44 to pretty close to Tulsa.  Anyway. . .I was very surprised at the "elementary" coverage and conversations between the guys in the studio and the ones on the ground. ..and dumbfounded/amazed at the lack of detail in the radar coverage.  One conversation (can't remember which channel) consisted of the guy in studio and the guy on the ground trying to decide whether or not they could see rotation in the cloud they were watching. . .  I felt like I was watching a couple of elementary school kids.  Our guys do overhype but I'd rather that than feeling I'm watching coverage by people who aren't quite sure what they are doing (kind of like when Gary's "toys" didn't work. . .only these guys had nowhere to backtrack).   At least, our guys  provide enough specific information that I can make up my mind on what I want to do.

----------


## Questor



----------


## soonerguru

> Agree 100%. The media these days, local especially, have reached the point, where they get most everyone in almost an "apocolyptic" mindset before incoming weather events. Whether it be winter storms, severe thunder/tornadic producing storms, they(media) are responsible for the most part in people buying up food and goods way in advance of weather. And in many cases the weather never materializes. It is not uncommon now for groups and organizations to cancel events several days in advance of what "might" be coming.  Somebody or somebodies need to step back and get this under control or it will just keep getting worse.


It is apocalyptic. It was the biggest tornado in history. OKC is a big city and I don't think they can hype days like Friday enough. People need to cancel events and leave work early and make plans for their safety.

Now we need our civic, state and national leadership to help us make better contingency plans for an F5 hitting a major American city other than, "Oh $hit, lots of people are going to die."

OKC is at far greater risk of the above happening than getting hit by Al Quaeda. Lets reexamine our public safety priorities.

----------


## bchris02

> It is apocalyptic. It was the biggest tornado in history. OKC is a big city and I don't think they can hype days like Friday enough. People need to cancel events and leave work early and make plans for their safety.


I agree.

Unfortunately, one of the huge downsides of living in OKC is having to live through days like Friday.  The media however needs to not hype unless there really is a serious threat.  The storm in April comes to mind.  It spawned a few tornadoes but was nothing major, yet the media hyped it up beforehand.

----------


## jn1780

> Agree 100%. The media these days, local especially, have reached the point, where they get most everyone in almost an "apocolyptic" mindset before incoming weather events. Whether it be winter storms, severe thunder/tornadic producing storms, they(media) are responsible for the most part in people buying up food and goods way in advance of weather. And in many cases the weather never materializes. *It is not uncommon now for groups and organizations to cancel events several days in advance of what "might" be coming*.  Somebody or somebodies need to step back and get this under control or it will just keep getting worse.


How many organizations actually do this? I can't think of any at the top of my head. Several hours, sure, a lot of groups do this.

----------


## Anonymous.

I think there is a lot of uninformed people in this thread confusing "hype" with "forecast"... 


The NWS does not have a chips in the ratings pot - and they issued a PDS watch with extremely high severe probabilities in what was MODERATE risk zone.

You must understand that a PDS watch is the rarest of the rare. The one last Friday was the *second* of the year for the entire nation. For the second time in two weeks there was a _Tornado Emergency_ (This is the most heightened warning that exists) issued for a major metropolitan area. Two EF-5 tornadoes tracked very near each other in just 11 days - one of them being the widest in recorded history - and the other resulting in massive $ damage.

The above circumstances are bordering on impossible and will likely never happen again in the next 5 lifetimes.

----------


## soonerguru

> I think there is a lot of uninformed people in this thread confusing "hype" with "forecast"... 
> 
> 
> The NWS does not have a chips in the ratings pot - and they issued a PDS watch with extremely high severe probabilities in what was MODERATE risk zone.
> 
> You must understand that a PDS watch is the rarest of the rare. The one last Friday was the *second* of the year for the entire nation. For the second time in two weeks there was a _Tornado Emergency_ (This is the most heightened warning that exists) issued for a major metropolitan area. Two EF-5 tornadoes tracked very near each other in just 11 days - one of them being the widest in recorded history - and the other resulting in massive $ damage.
> 
> The above circumstances are bordering on impossible and will likely never happen again in the next 5 lifetimes.


I respect your opinion, so I ask, "how can you be sure?" In the last month, Oklahoma has experienced 2 F5s, 2 F4s, and another F3 for good measure. There was an F5 about 5 miles west of Friday's storm that struck near Calumet a couple of years ago. Is it time to consider the fact that massive killer tornadoes ar becoming more common?

On another note, the tornado emergency warnings come too late for people in a major city to react to and are really just a term of art for NWS (and not particularly useful to the warned public).

----------


## SOONER8693

> How many organizations actually do this? I can't think of any at the top of my head. Several hours, sure, a lot of groups do this.


Then you just haven't been paying attention. I'll try to write those down for you next time. Sheesh.

----------


## venture

> I respect your opinion, so I ask, "how can you be sure?" In the last month, Oklahoma has experienced 2 F5s, 2 F4s, and another F3 for good measure. There was an F5 about 5 miles west of Friday's storm that struck near Calumet a couple of years ago. Is it time to consider the fact that massive killer tornadoes ar becoming more common?
> 
> On another note, the tornado emergency warnings come too late for people in a major city to react to and are really just a term of art for NWS (and not particularly useful to the warned public).


I posted this in the other thread. Who is to say that half of the EF4/F4s that we've had in history weren't in the EF5/F5 category based solely on winds? The thing to keep in mind, without the mobile radar from OU in Canadian County on Friday - it was going down as an EF3...maybe EF4. So I personally don't think this as a case of "massive tornadoes becoming more common"...I think it is a case of technology getting better and becoming more available where we can start getting more accurate records. 

Tornado Emergencies can't be called any earlier because they are there to alert people, especially first responders, that this is a serious situation in a heavily populated area. No one should be "well it's just a regular ol' tornado warning so I'll crack open another cold one until they push out a tornado emergency." 

People should already be acting when the warning comes out.

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## soonerguru

> I posted this in the other thread. Who is to say that half of the EF4/F4s that we've had in history weren't in the EF5/F5 category based solely on winds? The thing to keep in mind, without the mobile radar from OU in Canadian County on Friday - it was going down as an EF3...maybe EF4. So I personally don't think this as a case of "massive tornadoes becoming more common"...I think it is a case of technology getting better and becoming more available where we can start getting more accurate records. 
> 
> Tornado Emergencies can't be called any earlier because they are there to alert people, especially first responders, that this is a serious situation in a heavily populated area. No one should be "well it's just a regular ol' tornado warning so I'll crack open another cold one until they push out a tornado emergency." 
> 
> People should already be acting when the warning comes out.


So you don't think F5 and F4 type events are becoming more common. While I wish I agreed, I don't. Folks are buying storm shelters like never before because they've come to the disturbing realization that May 3, 1999, was not a once in a lifetime event. On May 20, it became a once in a decade event. After the additional trauma of Friday's event, one need not be a meteorologist to understand these types of "rare" storms have become far too common.

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## OKCisOK4me

> So you don't think F5 and F4 type events are becoming more common. While I wish I agreed, I don't. Folks are buying storm shelters like never before because they've come to the disturbing realization that May 3, 1999, was not a once in a lifetime event. On May 20, it became a once in a decade event. After the additional trauma of Friday's event, one need not be a meteorologist to understand these types of "rare" storms have become far too common.


So based on your statement, when flying cars become a reality, they're going to sell like hot cakes in California, so people don't have to worry about being pancaked on a double stack freeway or driving off a bridge segment that has collapsed into a bay (I know I'm using 1989 as an example but dear lord, earthquakes happen more often than not out on the west coast and they're not running)?  The Big One is gonna happen one day and thousands will die when that happens.  I don't see anyone packing up and leaving.

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## soonerguru

> So based on your statement, when flying cars become a reality, they're going to sell like hot cakes in California, so people don't have to worry about being pancaked on a double stack freeway or driving off a bridge segment that has collapsed into a bay (I know I'm using 1989 as an example but dear lord, earthquakes happen more often than not out on the west coast and they're not running)?  The Big One is gonna happen one day and thousands will die when that happens.  I don't see anyone packing up and leaving.


Say wha? You drunk, bro? 

My comments had zero to do with what you're talking about here. Wow.

----------


## venture

> So you don't think F5 and F4 type events are becoming more common. While I wish I agreed, I don't. Folks are buying storm shelters like never before because they've come to the disturbing realization that May 3, 1999, was not a once in a lifetime event. On May 20, it became a once in a decade event. After the additional trauma of Friday's event, one need not be a meteorologist to understand these types of "rare" storms have become far too common.


I guess it just depends on what your perception is. First and foremost...there is no such thing, technically, as an F4 or F5 anymore. That scale is dead and has been since 2007.

Between 1953 and 2007 we had 50 F5 tornadoes (old scale and excluding 1 in Canada) over 54 years so just under one a year. 

Between 2007 and 2013 with the new Enhanced Fujita scale we have had 10. Four of those came in the Super Outbreak of 2011. Of course the last 3 EF5s have been in Oklahoma...2 this year and the Calumet-El Reno-Guthrie EF5 of 2011. The May 31st El Reno EF5 of course sticks out as being a radar verified and not damage verified. So if we had more radar coverage, I would expect the number go up. However if it would go up too much, that would probably mean the EF Scale would need to be adjusted.

If we look at borderline F4/F5 tornadoes from the prior scale, that's another 20 tornadoes that would probably be considered EF5s with the new scale. So now we are looking at 80 tornadoes that could fall in the EF5 range over the last 63 years which of course works out to more than 1 a year...or more accurately 2 every 3-4 years give or take. 

People that think large damaging tornadoes are once in a lifetime event are just naive. What we are seeing is people are becoming more aware of just how frequent these events are. You're own comment reflects that. Your post mentions that is a once a decade event since May 20th happened, but completely disregarding the 2 other violent tornadoes that were in Moore since 99.

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## OKCisOK4me

> Say wha? You drunk, bro? 
> 
> My comments had zero to do with what you're talking about here. Wow.


Nope not drunk at all.  Quite sober to be honest.  

Storm shelter sales in Oklahoma = hot cakes due to massive tornadoes.
Possibility of flying car sales in California = hot cakes due to not being on the ground for the Big One or any other significant earthquake of a higher magnitude

^^The above is an analogy for the commonality of the two items...neither of which are a "rarity" based on your post.

Get it?

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## TaoMaas

> The tornado risk was already especially high and the main objective was to make sure people were off the roads after 4PM.


If that was the objective, then the media gets a massive "fail" because, far from having folks off the road, they sent them back out onto them.




> Unfortunately most people don't use common sense when dealing with the information being presented to them and freak out or use some jaded biased way of thinking that they consider accurate but isn't.


Hmmm...what kind of common sense is needed to know that the person with a degree in meteorology who is telling you to "drive south" is dead wrong and is leading you into the path of the storm?

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## venture

> If that was the objective, then the media gets a massive "fail" because, far from having folks off the road, they sent them back out onto them.


Agreed. 




> Hmmm...what kind of common sense is needed to know that the person with a degree in meteorology who is telling you to "drive south" is dead wrong and is leading you into the path of the storm?


Change the channel to someone who is more reputable or person just listen to the folks at NWS Norman?  :Smile:

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## BoulderSooner

i will also note that no one told anybody to drive into flowing water crossing the street ..

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## venture

> i will also note that no one told anybody to drive into flowing water crossing the street ..


That is where the common sense part of my statement comes in.  :Smile:   People lack it severely. Water covering the road, don't go in. It is take simple. Of course people feel that they are superior, or it isn't deep, or whatever else false notion and then their car stalls out or gets taken away...well Darwin is a punk.  :Smile:

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## TaoMaas

> Change the channel to someone who is more reputable or person just listen to the folks at NWS Norman?


I did.  And even though I chose to leave my house and drive 90 degrees away from the storm path towards Edmond (and was out of range in about 6 miles) , my co-worker was listening to another channel and fled to Shawnee...then Seminole...then Ada...to try and escape the path.

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## TaoMaas

> I think there is a lot of uninformed people in this thread confusing "hype" with "forecast"...


"Forecast" is knowing the odds are great of a major severe weather episode and making people aware of it in advance.  "Forecast" is, on the day of the event, covering up at least one commercial in every break to remind people of the extreme possibility of severe weather and to remind them to keep an eye on things, up to the point of the actual weather event.  "Hype" is blowing out all programming and telling folks, "Here it comes...it's not here yet....wait for it....wait for it...OMG! THERE IT IS!  RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!"

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## Anonymous.

> "Forecast" is knowing the odds are great of a major severe weather episode and making people aware of it in advance.  "Forecast" is, on the day of the event, covering up at least one commercial in every break to remind people of the extreme possibility of severe weather and to remind them to keep an eye on things, up to the point of the actual weather event.  "Hype" is blowing out all programming and telling folks, "Here it comes...it's not here yet....wait for it....wait for it...OMG! THERE IT IS!  RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!"



The forecast called for an extreme situation building. Thus the "hype" was not hype, but it was simply the reality of what the conditions presented at the time. Would you rather them cut in from regular programming during explosive supercell development west of the metro?

Not everyone is watching television all the time. Some people have no clue until they see ominous clouds in the distance and then check television. And what if they saw regular programming? Maybe they would think there was no big deal.

Everyone in Oklahoma knows there is potential for serious business when the local media move to wall-to-wall coverage.

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## ultimatesooner

> I was at home hunkered down, flipping between 4, 5 and 9, seeing if I needed to go to the nearby shelter (I didn't). The worst was when KWTV broadcast their helicopter shot from south of downtown looking north, and framed in the shot were the "parking lots" on Santa Fe, Shields and I-35, with the storm bearing down on them from the west. There were thousands of people there, fully-exposed sitting ducks, waiting for nature to have its way with them. Thank God that the storm didn't stay on the ground or there could easily be hundreds dead and thousands injured. 
> 
> *Those weren't people still driving home from work seeking the shelter of their homes. Those were people who left the safety of their homes because Mike Morgan told them to. And when the tornado didn't get them, they were left exposed to the flood waters, power lines, open manholes and blocked roads. A hundred panicked people stormed into a convenience store, breaking the glass front door.* 
> 
> Is this acceptable - scaring unprepared, unequipped people out into a storm at night?


Great thing you have checked w/ all of these people to be so sure that they were only out there because all them were watching KFOR

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## TaoMaas

> Would you rather them cut in from regular programming during explosive supercell development west of the metro?


YES!  When it's not even raining, there's no good reason to amp people up even though the conditions are ripe.  Keep them informed and updated, but don't cry "fire" until a fire really breaks out.




> Everyone in Oklahoma knows there is potential for serious business when the local media move to wall-to-wall coverage.


Oh, there's more rules than that.  I can flip on a station and tell you within 5 seconds if it's serious or not simply by seeing if it's the main met or the morning guy doing the cut-in.  I'm not saying Friday wasn't serious.  We know after the fact that it was.  But we were also saying several days ahead of times that it was going to be as bad as May 20th or worse and we did NOT know that.  We only knew the potential was there.  This is why Oklahomans become desensitized to weather warnings.  The more we ramp things up, the harder it is to distinguish when to worry and when not to.  Frankly, I kinda blame KOCO for a bunch of this.  It's been apparent for some time that they're doing everything they can to try and establish themselves as the weather authority in the metro...and so they go into wall-to-wall a little quicker and continue stick with it when 4 & 9 have gone back to programming.  That was happening even before Rick Mitchell left.

Edited to add:  My comment about KOCO is based upon the knowledge that all the stations watch each other and keep tabs on how often and how long the other stations are cutting in.  It shouldn't be this way, but part of the decision making in when to cut in and when to go wall to wall is based upon what the other stations are doing.

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## Anonymous.

People do live outside of OKC... And I know it is hard to imagine, but some of these people have TV and are able to view the same local channels!  :Pat Head:

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## SoonerDave

> We know after the fact that it was. But we were also saying several days ahead of times that it was going to be as bad as May 20th or worse and *we did NOT know that*. We only knew the potential was there.


I'm as anti-hype as they come, but I don't get this statement. As the days progressed, I saw _nothing_  from _any_ respectable meteorologist that didn't suggest things were looking _worse_ as the forecast evolved. We _absolutely_ knew that the meteorological ingredients were _prime_ for a mulit-storm, multi-tornado event. 

I'm not sure what kind of a hair-split you're wanting by saying "we only knew the potential was there." Mets knew that when the storms started, they'd go up in minutes, probably rotating, and going severe almost all at the same time. And that's exactly what they did. Are you suggesting there should be no coverage until the first tornado is physically on the ground doing damage? Or when the first funnel is sighted? Or when the first hook signature on radar is detected? When? What line do you want to have drawn over what's acceptable and what isn't?

Mind you, I say and ask this as someone who LOATHES the ratings-driven hype nonsense in this market by some. But I just can't get my head around what you were expecting in terms of TV coverage for last Friday _other_ than what unfolded. You say keep people "informed and updated," but what do you mean by that? Specifically? Its easy to criticize from a distance in broad strokes, but the hard part is translating those broad strokes into hard, specific recommendations. 

Cumulus fields were going up in the OKC area _all over town_ Friday afternoon, even after some of the storms in the NE part of the state had started up. Heck, I thought some were building virtually along 89th. They can't pinpoint startups _that_ closely, so a best-level of granularity is about all they can do. What are you wanting? And I mean that not sarcastically, but honestly. What do you really want?

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## TaoMaas

> Are you suggesting there should be no coverage until the first tornado is physically on the ground doing damage? Or when the first funnel is sighted? Or when the first hook signature on radar is detected? When? What line do you want to have drawn over what's acceptable and what isn't?


No, I'm suggesting we wait to go wall-to-wall until it's at least raining.  Since we're talking in extremes, are you saying that's too late?  I'm not saying there shouldn't have been warnings.  There most certainly should have been and had been for several days prior.  With over-coverage...especially when nothing has really developed yet...we run the risk of viewers tuning us out and switching to a channel where they may or may not receive timely warnings.  It's a balancing act, but an important one, I believe.  Also...we don't really know what's going to happen.  We know when the conditions are right and can give a percentage of the probability it will happen, but nobody truly knows until it goes down.  I think we had the "ice storm of the century" that didn't happen earlier this year, didn't we?

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## TaoMaas

> ...I just can't get my head around what you were expecting in terms of TV coverage for last Friday _other_ than what unfolded. You say keep people "informed and updated," but what do you mean by that? Specifically? Its easy to criticize from a distance in broad strokes, but the hard part is translating those broad strokes into hard, specific recommendations.


Sorry...I didn't see this question earlier.  Here's the levels of what should be considered from a station's point of view.  #1 If nothing has developed yet, but there's a strong possibility, cover part of the commercial break.  Depending upon the severity, cover more than one or an entire break.  The rule used to be to cover a PSA first (but nobody runs those anymore), next choice would be a promo, third choice would be a commercial.  The commercial is last because it costs money.  You could argue that a promo costs money, too, because it bumps a commercial out of the break, but that's not relevant to this discussion.  #2 If things heat up...there's no tornado on the ground, but it looks like there's a chance of it happening before the next break, you interrupt programming while keeping an eye on the content of the show.  The rule used to be that you don't want to cover up the point in the show where they reveal who the killer is just so you can tell folks that nothing is happening.  The worst example I ever saw of this was years ago on the final episode of "Barney Miller" when Fred Norman cut in on the tail of the show and covered Barney's final thoughts on his life in the police station, only so Fred could let us know that there was no danger at present, but stay tuned just in case.  Ch. 5 came back to the show just in time to see Barney turn out the lights and close the door.  #3  If there's a tornado on the ground or a lowering that's about to touch down...cut 'em and go, no questions asked.  You want more specific than that?

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## SoonerDave

> #2 If things heat up...there's no tornado on the ground, *but it looks like there's a chance of it happening* before the next break, you interrupt programming while keeping an eye on the content of the show.


And you just cracked the golden easter egg. "Looks like it might" happen....where? Within 50 miles of the station? 100 mlies? 150 miles? Broadcast area? The key here is that the stations aren't narrowcasting to a few folks, there going statewide to hundreds of thousands of folks, so to say "there's a chance" overlooks that it maybe a 0% chance in Norman, but a 90% chance in Lawton with a storm bearing down.

As far as "covering part of the commercial," that's what I"ve seen the local guys - esp KWTV as of late - do. In fact, prior to this last round, I think KWTV had hedged more on being conservative than at any time I can remember.

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## jn1780

I'm sure its an educational experience to some to watch how fast a "boring" cumulus cloud can overcome the cap to become a full blown thunderstorm cable of producing in 45mins. The media wouldn't have been watching clouds for over 45mins beforehand if the storm initialization wasn't happening so close to major populated areas.

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## TaoMaas

> And you just cracked the golden easter egg. "Looks like it might" happen....where? Within 50 miles of the station? 100 mlies? 150 miles? Broadcast area?



Anywhere within the broadcast area.  You're right...it's not just OKC that's relying upon the weather coverage.  However, it's possible to take things too far.  I remember one night having to stay at the station until 3am doing cut-ins for a storm that was moving into the Grove area...WAY out of our viewing range.  We asked the meteorologist (who shall remain nameless) if it was really neccessary to continue doing cut-ins when the storm was so far out of our area.  He said, "I'm doing them for those who may have boats on Grand Lake."  Seriously?  When we talked to our boss about it, one guy said, "When you get the ratings for that time period, I don't think you'll have to worry about what the numbers were.  There were so few people watching, they'll probably list them individually by name."  lol  I think there was something else going on last Friday that caused an inordinate amount of people to decide that fleeing was their best option...and I think it's unfair to blame it all on Mike Morgan.  I've since talked to several friends and they all chose to leave their homes.  Luckily, they went north and were able to avoid the storm pretty easily.  What I'm finding weird is that these guys don't normally do this.  They're pretty typical Okies in that they've lived here all their lives, are used to this stuff, and don't spook easily.  So...something else was up that night, I think.  I just haven't decided quite what it was exactly.

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## jn1780

I saw this posted on the Lost Ogle. Not much hype when your chasers don't have laptops, cellular towers to broadcast live video, tornado chasing helicopters, or Dominators. 


I wonder if Venture was actually chasing this thing back when the roads were not flooded with amateur chasers? lol

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## venture

I'm afraid I'm not that advanced in years yet.  :Smile:  I started chasing in 1996, in Oklahoma the following year. Which honestly I didn't notice a massive congestion problem until probably 2005-2006. It was so wonderful back then. You could get a storm all to yourself to enjoy out in the middle of nowhere and sometimes meet some really nice folks. Anymore it is a bunch of amped up thrill seeking testosterone pumped college kids that think they are amazing. 

Some day I really need to go back and get all my old videos and pictures together and put them online.

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## ultimatesooner

> I'm afraid I'm not that advanced in years yet.  I started chasing in 1996, in Oklahoma the following year. Which honestly I didn't notice a massive congestion problem until probably 2005-2006. It was so wonderful back then. You could get a storm all to yourself to enjoy out in the middle of nowhere and sometimes meet some really nice folks. Anymore it is a bunch of amped up thrill seeking testosterone pumped college kids that think they are amazing. 
> 
> Some day I really need to go back and get all my old videos and pictures together and put them online.


that would be sweet

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## OKCTalker

> Great thing you have checked w/ all of these people to be so sure that they were only out there because all them were watching KFOR


Mike Morgan is the one who has been universally faulted for advising people to leave the area if they couldn't get below ground. Nevertheless, you're calling me out on this? Seriously?

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## ultimatesooner

traffic was bad all evening/afternoon long and tons of people from out of state staying in travel trailers, etc that likely hit the roads.  The roads would have been packed regardless or what Morgan said

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## zookeeper

> traffic was bad all evening/afternoon long and tons of people from out of state staying in travel trailers, etc that likely hit the roads.  The roads would have been packed regardless or what Morgan said


Even more reason not to try to send half of a major American city out on to the roads. It was a monumental lack of judgement and he by no means deserves a pass.

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## soonerguru

> You're own comment reflects that. Your post mentions that is a once a decade event since May 20th happened, but completely disregarding the 2 other violent tornadoes that were in Moore since 99.


It sounds like we agree here. My whole post was about the fact that very large tornadoes are NOT rare, which is how they are presented. And my point was that these are NOT once in a decade events. It sounds like we agree here.

----------


## soonerguru

> No, I'm suggesting we wait to go wall-to-wall until it's at least raining.  Since we're talking in extremes, are you saying that's too late?  I'm not saying there shouldn't have been warnings.  There most certainly should have been and had been for several days prior.  With over-coverage...especially when nothing has really developed yet...we run the risk of viewers tuning us out and switching to a channel where they may or may not receive timely warnings.  It's a balancing act, but an important one, I believe.  Also...we don't really know what's going to happen.  We know when the conditions are right and can give a percentage of the probability it will happen, but nobody truly knows until it goes down.  I think we had the "ice storm of the century" that didn't happen earlier this year, didn't we?


Nope. If anything, I think they could have started coverage sooner. As it was, they started coverage when the super cells began to form. It would have been foolish for them to have waited.

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## jn1780

> traffic was bad all evening/afternoon long and tons of people from out of state staying in travel trailers, etc that likely hit the roads.  The roads would have been packed regardless or what Morgan said


That's nice, but Morgan hasn't said anything since about making an error in judgement and Channel 4 actually aired a promo that reused what Morgan said that Friday night. If he believes outrunning a tornado in a car is safer than staying put in your house, he should just go out and say it. Then others in the weather industry can formally disagree with him.

Of course, there are certain residences that are not a good place to be like a mobile home or house that's basically a shack, but there cannot be blanket statements that say everyone in the path of the tornado need to evacuate.

----------


## ultimatesooner

> Even more reason not to try to send half of a major American city out on to the roads. It was a monumental lack of judgement and he by no means deserves a pass.


I don't believe he should have said it but i don't think half the city was on the roads because of what he said

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## zookeeper

> I don't believe he should have said it but i don't think half the city was on the roads because of what he said


That's not the point. He was talking to pretty close to half the population of the metro. Yukon, West OKC all the way to Penn Square.

The lack of a statement from KFOR and Mike Morgan should bother everyone. Unless, he's been terminated. Their weather coverage is forever tainted by this scandal, and that's really what it is.

----------


## TaoMaas

> Nope. If anything, I think they could have started coverage sooner. As it was, they started coverage when the super cells began to form. It would have been foolish for them to have waited.


The goal is to get people to pay attention.  When you go long periods saying that nothing is happening yet, you run the risk of them turning you off.  I'm not saying they shouldn't have been warning people, but do it through cut-ins and crawls.  Save the wall-to-wall until there's actually something to report besides potential.

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## TaoMaas

> I don't believe he should have said it but i don't think half the city was on the roads because of what he said


I've about decided that the path of the storm is what spooked so many people.  It looked like it was going to cut right through the middle of OKC so a lot of folks bailed.

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## soonerguru

> I've about decided that the path of the storm is what spooked so many people.  It looked like it was going to cut right through the middle of OKC so a lot of folks bailed.


Correct. I know many people are somewhat blas about these events, because invariably they believe OKC will be spared. The fact that OKC was in the direct path of a 2.6 mile-wide tornado freaked people out, as it should.

----------


## zookeeper

> Correct. I know many people are somewhat blas about these events, because invariably they believe OKC will be spared. The fact that OKC was in the direct path of a 2.6 mile-wide tornado freaked people out, as it should.


I agree with most everything you've said, but I really don't think we can overstate the importance of one of the bigtime meteorologists TELLING people, (as opposed to what they've been told all of their life), to get out of the way and head southbound. I don't think it can even be measured, so why should we not assume that Mike Morgan and KFOR shouting this directive wasn't the biggest factor to the packed I-44 and main streets (Council, Rockwell, Meridian, Portland, May Ave)? I think many people, in fact I've talked to some, who against their better judgement, deferred to the "professionals" and got caught in the gridlock. Unbelievable that he would scream this to a large part of a major city. It doesn't take a PhD to know that is the worst thing he could have done. Advice like that should mean your job. He got lucky as had that tornado moved on through, many more would have died like sitting ducks in their cars than taking precautions and sheltering in place.

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## Anonymous.

Morgan has spoken about the incident. He is not hiding or fired as much of you would love to believe.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

He has spoken of the incident on social media. I will see if I can find the info once I am home.

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## zookeeper

> Morgan has spoken about the incident. He is not hiding or fired as much of you would love to believe. 
> 
> He has spoken of the incident on social media. I will see if I can find the info once I am home.


I'm curious, are you a meteorologist? Do you have a degree in the science? Why do you feel the need to defend what most meteorologists all over the world believe to be indefensible?

I'm using a screenname as you are, but you speak from a position of authority about these issues when the weather gets severe. I feel people should know if you are or are not a meteorologist.

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## ultimatesooner

> That's not the point. He was talking to pretty close to half the population of the metro. Yukon, West OKC all the way to Penn Square.
> 
> The lack of a statement from KFOR and Mike Morgan should bother everyone. Unless, he's been terminated. Their weather coverage is forever tainted by this scandal, and that's really what it is.


you can't assume that that entire half of the population was watching KFOR, I'd be willing to bet that half of that half weren't even watching a television at all.  O

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## zookeeper

> you can't assume that that entire half of the population was watching KFOR, I'd be willing to bet that half of that half weren't even watching a television at all.  O


Okay. 50, 100, 500, 1000 of them were. Any were too many. You're missing the point.

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## yukong

Well, I know this...after the EF5 that hit in Piedmont, just about 3 miles from my house, and the wife/mother was in the center bathroom, in the bathtub, and the tornado sucked two of her children from her arms and dumped them in a pond several hundred yards away, and they died, my faith in the center most part of my house in a tub is gone if they are saying a huge tornado is headed my way.  My home was at one time in the projected path of the tornado Friday night.  The projected path gave us 15-20 minutes lead time.  My family and I bailed.  We got in our cars and fled.  And I don't regret it.  Luckily for us the tornado changed direction and did not come near our house.  But I would and will do the same in the future.  I would rather be on the run and in control of my fate, than a sitting duck hoping I don't get killed.  I may be in the minority, and many of you may call me crazy, but I think my odds are better getting out than hiding out.  Now, if I only had a 5 minute lead, I may have stayed put.  But I weighed the odds and felt evacuating was the best option.  And Mike Morgan had nothing to do with it.  And no guy on TV would influence my decision.  I made my own decision.  I'm not a lemming.  Had he said go to a center room like a bathroom and get low, I still would have left.

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## venture

> Morgan has spoken about the incident. He is not hiding or fired as much of you would love to believe. 
> 
> He has spoken of the incident on social media. I will see if I can find the info once I am home.


Here is the link/story to TLO that has it...

Finally, Mike Morgan breaks his silence on Friday?s storm coverage? | The Lost Ogle

Mike Marla McCullough MorganHi Linda, and everyone else showing concern for my well being. I am here....all is well. I am taking a couple of days off, which was already planned before the terrible day on Friday. Folks in the weather office all have time off coming (summertime!) so I had to take the time while it was available. I took my kids to the movies today!! I do want to say a couple of things to you all....The tornado fatalities from last Friday were ALL out near El Reno. I was REPEATADLY telling folks to AVOID I-40 completely....do not travel westbound out of OKC into Canadian County! Also, I want to say, full well knowing that tornado was a very large violent monster, and Reed Timmer in full agreement, and moving directly towards OKC, I was, for lack of a better word, desparate to help you in any way I could. With I -40 already shut down on the west side of town, plus visions of Moore tragically burned into everyone's mind from May 20th, the advice of "if you do not feel safe where you are, then get out of its way" blew up into a conjested nightmare of folks trying to get safe. I have cried over this more than once since Friday. Your safety is my/our number 1 priority, and that will NEVER change....ask Reed, ask Emily, ask Jon Welsh. I cherish our relationship....lord knows Oklahoma weather has put us all thru too much lately, but we will never stop giving you the information you deserve before and during severe weather. See you soon , Mike Morgan

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## venture

From that comment it seems like he knew he effed up badly and regrets it deeply. Perhaps this will be the start of calming the hyping "Morgasm" and bring back the more rational/extensive weather coverage that this market is known for.

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## Anonymous.

Thanks for the post venture. I agree, this will probably guarantee he never suggests running away from a storm again unless he makes it clear by putting "If you don't feel safe". But even then, he is better off keeping his mouth shut on future fight or flight situations.





> I'm curious, are you a meteorologist? Do you have a degree in the science? Why do you feel the need to defend what most meteorologists all over the world believe to be indefensible?
> 
> I'm using a screenname as you are, but you speak from a position of authority about these issues when the weather gets severe. I feel people should know if you are or are not a meteorologist.


As for this post, I'm not sure the tone of it... But I am not randomly 'defending' Morgan on the belief that what he did was excusable. I firmly believe giving advice to flee in advance of a storm is incorrect unless there is adequate lead time that is ample and local traffic is appropriate to the person considering such a decision. My defense comes against those who are pitchforking KFOR/MM for _causing injury and death_ to people that took his advice. I have yet to see a single report of this occurrence - it is clear all of the tornado related injuries were near I-40 towards El Reno. Random flooding injuries and deaths occurred all over Central OK at the time. I have a hard time giving a pass to people who took MM's advice blindly and just jumped into a traffic log jam then proceeded to drive over water covered roads. And still, where are these people now? Are they dead? Injured? Oh, just frustrated? On May 20, MM gave the same advice and there were stories about how people heeding 'fleeing advice' were spared as their house was swept off the concrete slab. 

People only complain about something that inconveniences them, if that tornado had torn through 800 homes in Yukon, would this dogpile be occurring? 


As for my identity, I will say I am not a meteorologist. That field is over-saturated like the soil in OKC!

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## jn1780

> From that comment it seems like he knew he effed up badly and regrets it deeply. Perhaps this will be the start of calming the hyping "Morgasm" and bring back the more rational/extensive weather coverage that this market is known for.


Until next April.lol

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## SOONER8693

> Here is the link/story to TLO that has it...
> 
> Finally, Mike Morgan breaks his silence on Friday?s storm coverage? | The Lost Ogle
> 
> Mike Marla McCullough MorganHi Linda, and everyone else showing concern for my well being. I am here....all is well. I am taking a couple of days off, which was already planned before the terrible day on Friday. Folks in the weather office all have time off coming (summertime!) so I had to take the time while it was available. I took my kids to the movies today!! I do want to say a couple of things to you all....The tornado fatalities from last Friday were ALL out near El Reno. I was REPEATADLY telling folks to AVOID I-40 completely....do not travel westbound out of OKC into Canadian County! Also, I want to say, full well knowing that tornado was a very large violent monster, and Reed Timmer in full agreement, and moving directly towards OKC, I was, for lack of a better word, desparate to help you in any way I could. With I -40 already shut down on the west side of town, plus visions of Moore tragically burned into everyone's mind from May 20th, the advice of "if you do not feel safe where you are, then get out of its way" blew up into a conjested nightmare of folks trying to get safe. I have cried over this more than once since Friday. Your safety is my/our number 1 priority, and that will NEVER change....ask Reed, ask Emily, ask Jon Welsh. I cherish our relationship....lord knows Oklahoma weather has put us all thru too much lately, but we will never stop giving you the information you deserve before and during severe weather. See you soon , Mike Morgan


Seems like an "apology" of a kid who got caught doing something he shouldn't have. Only sorry cause he got caught, not for what he did. I see no real sincere, "I screwed up, and I'm sorry".

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## OKCTalker

I'll venture that there is below-ground shelter capacity in the OKC metro for every resident to reach within 10 minutes. (I could be wrong, but I'd welcome the opportunity to noodle through the thought process here.) My thinking is that if people have identified that location, are paying attention and begin implementing an hour out, when the storm characteristics and path have become clear, then they could reach their nearby shelter within a few minutes. 

My shelter is the basement of a public building three minutes away. I was watching the storm last Friday as it took a bead on my house. I had the car loaded, garage door open, doors unlocked (enabling first responder to more quickly search the house if it is hit), lights off and TVs on. When the storm projections put it 20 minutes from my house, I said to myself, "If nothing changes, I will leave in five minutes." That's when it turned right. 

I believe that everyone in central Oklahoma - in fact, all of tornado alley for that matter - has the ability to make similar plans and successfully execute them as necessary. Start by identifying where you will go - your basement, a neighbor or relative's shelter or basement, a neighborhood school, church or government building that would be open - and don't wait until it's too late.

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## ou48A

If we are looking for blame there is plenty of it to go around. 

If we had building codes like some states do that require all new construction to have approved storm shelters we would see far fewer vehicles on the roads trying to flee.. Where was the state and local law enforcement with real time information about the traffic congestion?  

My wifes employer let their employs go home very early, she was able to leave at 1 pm.
We need to let people leave work even far sooner than what many did and without fear of punishment.

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## OKCTalker

> Where was the state and local law enforcement with real time information about the traffic congestion?


That was being provided in real time by helicopters from KFOR, KOCO and KWTV, supplemented by traffic congestion depictions on Google Maps, all at no taxpayer expense. 

LEOs were busy blocking highways leading into the storm's projected path, low streets that were flooding, and rescuing victims. I was monitoring scanner traffic that night, and it was intense.

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## venture

If we want real congestion control for the interstates (at least), then we need gates/stop lights at the on ramps to keep more traffic from entering until congestion is reduced. 

WSDOT - Ramp Meters



Granted people may run the light anyway, but that's when it needs to be coupled with a gate to close it down completely. Sitting on a barely moving interstate isn't going to be any better for people than a slow moving surface street.

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## ou48A

Highway 4 in OK on 31 May 2013. Note the taillights on both sides of the highway...

 ...and no, the highway was not in a "contra-flow" pattern...






49

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## ultimatesooner

have a co worker whose SO was on one of the highways, he said people were crashing into each other and taking off, busting through medians and bar ditches, etc.

would like to see some cell phone videos of some of this happening

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## soonerguru

> have a co worker whose SO was on one of the highways, he said people were crashing into each other and taking off, busting through medians and bar ditches, etc.
> 
> would like to see some cell phone videos of some of this happening


What a nightmare. Again, instead of blaming some random weatherman, we desperately need our state leaders, beginning with the governor all the way to our local officials, to take a position of leadership to ensure public safety in the event of extreme tornado events. There are too many of them to dismiss as rare at this point. That is clear. Let's figure out a way to protect our citizens.

We should also investigate asking the federal government for help -- with a local match. Instead of getting a 1/2 percent tax cut and stuffing money in the rainy day fund, let's provide a system in which people can get some government assistance to build storm shelters and / or safe rooms in their homes. This would seriously mitigate the risks of a total catastrophe, such as thousands of people stranded on an interstate in the path of a killer tornado.

There's a "Republican" way to do this: offer income tax breaks for people who build them, even if it is only a partial tax break. Perhaps the embarrassing morons who represent our state in Washington could get a bill going through the House and Senate for a federal tax deduction as well.

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## OKCTalker

I was listening to the scanners as OHP & OCPD officers reported that they were unable to stop motorists from driving onto interstates into the storm's path, and onto unlit, flooded streets.

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## Questor

States not going to do anything. The governor has made that very clear. They'll make suggestions... Nothing more. Including when it comes to state sponsored schools and their lack of shelters. 

Extremely short sighted in my opinion.

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## venture

> States not going to do anything. The governor has made that very clear. They'll make suggestions... Nothing more. Including when it comes to state sponsored schools and their lack of shelters. 
> 
> Extremely short sighted in my opinion.


We'll have the same dialog after next Spring...and again the following...and the one after that. Honestly, we will probably see "tornado days" before we see quality in school shelters.

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## RadicalModerate

Maybe we need something like the CCC or the WPA to start building shelters and stimulate the economy. (oh. wait . . . where is the money coming from to do this . . ?)

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## Uncle Slayton

> have a co worker whose SO was on one of the highways, he said people were crashing into each other and taking off, busting through medians and bar ditches, etc.
> 
> would like to see some cell phone videos of some of this happening


My daughter works at I-40 & Meridian.  At 5:10 PM, I told her to stay put.  At 5:30, she calls me saying that work 'kicked them out, told them to go home' and locked the building.  She lives in Newalla, so she and her boyfriend made a run for it and although there are no videos, she corroborates the story of people cutting in from opposing traffic lanes, driving over medians, bump and runs, etc.  I was finally able to talk her off I-40 onto surface streets and guide her home on a circuitous path.  She said she sat in her car and shook for 15 minutes after she got home.

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## yukong

If people read today's paper, then the impulse to run/flee will remain as there are 2 stories of people who died  on May 20 in their homes in Moore. Both were hiding in center closets, yet were killed.  And I think there were more than that. Those are just in today's paper. One was impaled by debris.  So while a central closet or bathroom improves chances, a direct hit from an EF5 can be lethal.  Again, many will like the odds of making a run over staying put.

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## soonerguru

> Maybe we need something like the CCC or the WPA to start building shelters and stimulate the economy. (oh. wait . . . where is the money coming from to do this . . ?)


There is plenty of money being spent elsewhere that could be applied to this. Also, the deficit is going down.

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## RadicalModerate

Speaking of OKC Weather Coverage Wars . . . Who is that "low-key man on the street/field reporter" on Channel 9?  I'm referring to the guy who stood out there at the scene of the sunken car last Friday and lead-in with something along the lines of, " . . . I just don't get it, folks.  I really don't." and allowed the results of driving into water crossing a roadway speak for themselves . . . 

Real Time: Uh oh . . . sounds a little bit like hail outside . . . hope not.

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## ou48A

> States not going to do anything. The governor has made that very clear. They'll make suggestions... Nothing more. Including when it comes to state sponsored schools and their lack of shelters. 
> 
> Extremely short sighted in my opinion.


Doing nothing to proactively protect citizens and mitigate damaged with more shelters and stronger state building codes for new construction is completely unacceptable.

Its my understanding that in some cases FEMA will pay up to 75 % of the cost of school storm shelters.
If we have a governor or any one elected in our state who wont at the very least do what other states have done and mandate that all new schools have storm shelters then its time to vote differently. Apparently this issue is going to need to be pushed from the grass roots and by ordinary Oklahomans.

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## venture

> Speaking of OKC Weather Coverage Wars . . . Who is that "low-key man on the street/field reporter" on Channel 9? I'm referring to the guy who stood out there at the scene of the sunken car last Friday and lead-in with something along the lines of, " . . . I just don't get it, folks. I really don't." and allowed the results of driving into water crossing a roadway speak for themselves . . . 
> 
> Real Time: Uh oh . . . sounds a little bit like hail outside . . . hope not.


Steve Shaw I think? At times I'm like "wow he's being an ass" and other times I was like "OMG that's hilarious for point out the stupidity of people." Driving down a road covered in water is never a good idea. You just have to be stupid to do it unless you are able to see the paint on the roadway and can easily judge the depth of the water. Granted, the road could be completely washed out in another section that you don't realize...so better off just not doing it.




> Doing nothing to proactively protect citizens and mitigate damaged with more shelters and stronger state building codes for new construction is completely unacceptable.
> 
> It’s my understanding that in some cases FEMA will pay up to 75 % of the cost of school storm shelters.
> If we have a governor or any one elected in our state who won’t at the very least do what other states have done and mandate that all new schools have storm shelters then it’s time to vote differently. Apparently this issue is going to need to be pushed from the grass roots and by ordinary Oklahomans.


Hopefully people keep this in mind and show Fallin the door next year - but they won't. People have short term memories and don't care. Faith, Family, Freedom is all it takes. Part of that freedom is to continue to not require at least protection for students at schools. I'll gladly give back the income tax cut to pay for the schools...as well as my tax dollars being used (or attempted to be used) for the Indian museum, that Tulsa museum, the Capital reconstruction project, and the dozens of other projects that can be funded privately.

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## zookeeper

> Steve Shaw I think? At times I'm like "wow he's being an ass" and other times I was like "OMG that's hilarious for point out the stupidity of people." Driving down a road covered in water is never a good idea. You just have to be stupid to do it unless you are able to see the paint on the roadway and can easily judge the depth of the water. Granted, the road could be completely washed out in another section that you don't realize...so better off just not doing it.
> 
> Hopefully people keep this in mind and show Fallin the door next year - but they won't. People have short term memories and don't care. Faith, Family, Freedom is all it takes. Part of that freedom is to continue to not require at least protection for students at schools. I'll gladly give back the income tax cut to pay for the schools...as well as my tax dollars being used (or attempted to be used) for the Indian museum, that Tulsa museum, the Capital reconstruction project, and the dozens of other projects that can be funded privately.


I agree Venture. Fallin and her like think subsidies are only for corporations and to help the rich pay for what they should be paying for themselves. School shelters? Pfft.

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## TaoMaas

> If we have a governor or any one elected in our state who won’t at the very least do what other states have done and mandate that all new schools have storm shelters then it’s time to vote differently.


We have a governor who sways in the political winds.  She got elected on a platform of pinching a penny and "every man for himself", but if the citizens bring enough pressure that we want our tax money spent upon making every school safe, she'll gladly sway the other way.  Hmmm...there's a word for the type of person who sells themselves to the highest bidder...what is it?

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## TaoMaas

> Hopefully people keep this in mind and show Fallin the door next year - but they won't.


No...we won't.  We're the worst state in the union about buying into this crap.  Like every other movement in America, we'll be the last to know.

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## ou48A

This is a few weeks old but this is a good Toby Rowland interview with KWTV News 9 meteorologist Michael Armstrong.

PodOmatic | Best Free Podcasts

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## bandnerd

5 Dead in drainage tunnel

Sorry if it's already been posted. It was up on Newsok today.

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## Anonymous.

Intense story. But that is the dumbest place to take shelter... That is the water passage that runs directly beneath the Dell parking lot and building. Sounds like they also stayed down there WAY too long.

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## OKCTalker

_"The survivors said they were swayed to flee the apartment by warnings from Mike Morgan, KFOR-TV chief meteorologist."_

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## ou48A

> _"The survivors said they were swayed to flee the apartment by warnings from Mike Morgan, KFOR-TV chief meteorologist."_


It almost seems like there’s a vendetta against Mike Morgan who as far as I know was only telling people to leave if they didn’t feel safe. He has no idea if what type of structures people live in.

People have got to take their own personal resposablitys serious enough to have their own plans to keep their own families safe in all situations. If they don’t know then it’s their job to educate them self’s about the threats.

But the paper can help. They should be educating the public about how they can stay safe and about how we can build stronger homes (for low cost) rather than trying to make scape goats out of people who were only trying to help. This same type of information should be distributed at schools, civic groups, churches, and such.

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## OKCTalker

Who are these apologist revisionists who keep defending Mike Morgan with misrepresentations of what he said? 

KFOR Meteorologist Advises Viewers to "Go South," Flee Oklahoma City Tornado (5-31-13) - YouTube 

In the first 1:10 of this video, Mike Morgan is emphatic - EMPHATIC - that you must leave if you can't get below ground. Forgive any small inaccuracies in transcription, but here's my best shot at what he said as he all but ordered people out of their houses and into the storm: 

"You've gotta be out of the way or below ground." 
"You cannot be above ground in Yukon, you've gotta go south and you've gotta go now." 
"Go to your neighbor's house, go wherever, but do it right now - right now." 
"I'd recommend going southbound, you need to part the water with this, part the water and get out of its way."  
"I'd go southbound and do it now." 
"So don't wait. If you can't go below ground...yes...it's still on the ground on the south side of I-40 right now. Go south. Get on down here towards West Moore. Somewhere down here. This is safe down here. Get down here. Get way down here. Down by Newcastle. Just take I-44 and just go down to Newcastle. Get out of the way of it. If you can get down here you're going to be safe."
"You need to be below ground, storm cellar or basement. If you can drive south, anywhere around White Water Bay or State Fair Park, the ballpark, downtown Oklahoma City...(continues listing areas to evacuate)...you need to drive south now or get below ground." 
"If you can leave south Oklahoma City and go south, do it right now." 

Two choices: Get below ground or get on the roads.

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## Anonymous.

If you want to get super technical (you are posting exact phrases and using the ultimatum of below ground or drive) - then the choices were to die/get injured in your car from the tornado or die/get injured from the tornado in your home. Was anyone on I-44 south following Mike's advice killed or injured in their vehicle from the tornado? No? then Mike injured/killed nobody.

Now should Mike have emphatically stated:

"do not go below ground in a storm drain"
"if driving in your car, do not cross water covered roadways"
"do not get out of your car and hide in storm drains"
"do not hide under underpasses"
"do not speed"
"remember to use your signal"
"do not wreck into people"

At what point does the blame finally fall onto the person?


I feel bad for the children who were injured or killed because of their guardian's stupidity.

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## OKCTalker

Debating phraseology and parsing the transcript won't win the day on this one. I'm posting his quotes because people keep saying that Mike Morgan didn't tell viewers to get into their cars and drive. He did, repeatedly. 

I have always been a strong proponent of personal responsibility, especially in times of crisis. Regrettably, some people don't come up with plans and they're caught at the last minute in desperate need of someone to tell them what to do. Heaven help them if they're taking their advice from a TV personality wearing a sparkly tie.

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## Spartan

> Steve Shaw I think? At times I'm like "wow he's being an ass" and other times I was like "OMG that's hilarious for point out the stupidity of people." Driving down a road covered in water is never a good idea. You just have to be stupid to do it unless you are able to see the paint on the roadway and can easily judge the depth of the water. Granted, the road could be completely washed out in another section that you don't realize...so better off just not doing it.
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully people keep this in mind and show Fallin the door next year - but they won't. People have short term memories and don't care. Faith, Family, Freedom is all it takes. Part of that freedom is to continue to not require at least protection for students at schools. I'll gladly give back the income tax cut to pay for the schools...as well as my tax dollars being used (or attempted to be used) for the Indian museum, that Tulsa museum, the Capital reconstruction project, and the dozens of other projects that can be funded privately.


Agreed. If every media outlet in the state wasn't a shill for the GOP, Fallin would probably be eviscerated for choosing conservativism over kids safety.

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## bandnerd

> If you want to get super technical (you are posting exact phrases and using the ultimatum of below ground or drive) - then the choices were to die/get injured in your car from the tornado or die/get injured from the tornado in your home. Was anyone on I-44 south following Mike's advice killed or injured in their vehicle from the tornado? No? then Mike injured/killed nobody.
> 
> Now should Mike have emphatically stated:
> 
> "do not go below ground in a storm drain"
> "if driving in your car, do not cross water covered roadways"
> "do not get out of your car and hide in storm drains"
> "do not hide under underpasses"
> "do not speed"
> ...


Right, this is why I posted the story. What happened to them was tragic, but incredibly preventable. They made the choice to go into a storm drain, which is never, ever the answer in a storm. Because it's a STORM drain. There to catch and send away storm waters. Why anyone would go in one is beyond me. 

We did the dance for a minute, do we stay here with no underground shelter, or do we go to a place where we could have a safe room or shelter. We saw it turn south and stayed. I was prepared to pack up the car or ride it out in the laundry room, the cats were already in their crates and ready to go. I wasn't going to flee without a plan, and I wasn't going to flee because a bedazzled tie told me to.

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## venture

So somewhat disappointed by this. Started seeing the WeatherRate stuff pushed more on KOCO and was hoping they would stay out of this market. For those not familiar. This is a company that supposed tracks all forecasts of local stations, compares it to the actual outcomes, and then assigns a score. 

TV stations then have the option to PURCHASE the license to say they are "Certified Most Accurate" for their market. They state that paying doesn't influence the ratings and they only allow the "most accurate" station to purchase the licensing, but they don't publish their data for third party verification from what I can tell. 

I'm not holding anything at all against Damon and his team, as I'm sure this was more of a station management decisions completely...but it seems to be one of those small town gimmicks that doesn't belong in the most prestigious (if you will) weather market in the country. 

More information about them can be found here: Welcome to WeatheRate
One thing to note...their website has been updated (for the most part) since 2011, which doesn't really look good for their credibility.

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## mugofbeer

> So somewhat disappointed by this. Started seeing the WeatherRate stuff pushed more on KOCO and was hoping they would stay out of this market. For those not familiar. This is a company that supposed tracks all forecasts of local stations, compares it to the actual outcomes, and then assigns a score. 
> 
> TV stations then have the option to PURCHASE the license to say they are "Certified Most Accurate" for their market. They state that paying doesn't influence the ratings and they only allow the "most accurate" station to purchase the licensing, but they don't publish their data for third party verification from what I can tell. 
> 
> I'm not holding anything at all against Damon and his team, as I'm sure this was more of a station management decisions completely...but it seems to be one of those small town gimmicks that doesn't belong in the most prestigious (if you will) weather market in the country. 
> 
> More information about them can be found here: Welcome to WeatheRate
> One thing to note...their website has been updated (for the most part) since 2011, which doesn't really look good for their credibility.


That kind of reminds me about similar "services" such as one in my industry where you can purchase a listing as one of the "best financial advisors in (name your city)."  There are also those pages that advertise the best restaurants, plastic surgeons, dentists, etc in airline magazines.

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## Anonymous.

They are really pushing this, too. There is even a billboard toting this @ I235/I44.

I agree it is super small-time, and especially for this specific market.

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## jn1780

Mike Morgan is using part of the news cast to promote Reed Timmer's  new tornado chasing web series.

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## boscorama

I found Mike annoying, the way he was hovering and telling everything, rather than letting Reed say more. And he exhibited in body language a controlling nature. Cool it, Mike!

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## jn1780

Mike Morgan defends his actions and explains how his own "high risk" severe weather outlooks are "better" than the NWS because its takes into account social science. Frankly, I think it makes the public dumber in the long run. 

Starts at the 20 minute mark. I got bored after 40 mins. lol

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## Dubya61

> No one can take these TV weather clowns seriously at this point. It is all hype/doom and gloom/fear mongering bs with these buffoons. They need to put on red noses and big floppy shoes.


So, I wonder why there is all the hype?  Do the TV stations make money when the go "full weather emergency" mode?  With this Tuesday morning's non-storm, Channel 5 pre-empted Good Morning America and some other syndicated programming.  Often, when they go "full weather emergency" mode, they even avoid commercials.  How does the station make money during that coverage?  Is it a loss leader to snare viewers to other stuff?  I would imagine they lose money big time during "full weather emergency" mode.

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## RadicalModerate

So . . . I accidentally had The Local Weather Coverage on, in the background, while dealing with some mundane tasks around the house, and The Weather Guy says, "Temperatures are Skyrocketing."  I like clichs as much as the next person, yet . . . Wouldn't that mean, technically, that they are actually Decreasing?  Or is it just a myth that it's a little cooler a few miles up in the stratosphere?

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## venture

Just FYI, the new thread for OKC Media concerning weather is in the weather section.  :Smile:  

Oklahoma Media - Weather Coverage - OKCTalk

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