# OKCpedia > General Real Estate Topics >  Building the aquarium through crowdfunding?

## drpepper

We just moved to OKC after living in San Francisco Bay Area, LA, and Dallas. I love this city, Oklahomans are probably the friendliest people I've ever met, I think we'll make OKC home for years to come. What I like about this city is that I can see the changes around me, new buildings, new restaurants, or new parks while at places we used to live, everything was there when we got there. That to me is really exciting. Hopefully, many major attractions will soon be built in OKC, and my children can enjoy what children in other mega cities have.

I'm really excited about the idea of a world-class aquarium in OKC, I hope that it will be selected as one of the funded MAPS 4 projects, but it probably won't happen anytime soon. However, instead of totally relying on MAPS, I wonder if we can take a different (and more creative) approach to raise the needed funding, for example using crowdfunding platforms such as Kickstarter or Indiegogo, or simply launching our own fundraising campaign to build an aquarium in OKC. Small donors can contribute money in exchange for future (steep discount) tickets, namesakes, or other merchandise. Many projects have managed to raised tens or even hundreds of millions on Kickstarter or Indiegogo, I think we can give it a shot. An aquarium is indeed expensive, but if we can raise some decent funding to start with, we can ask some big donors to match, a campaign like that will definitely help raise public awareness. If there is such a thing, I'd be happy to donate a lot more than just 1 cent sales tax.

Last but not least, if the aquarium is built as part of a mixed-use complex with nearby shops, restaurants, stadium, it will be a blast. An aquarium in here will make it perfect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWHxr5sdu4k?rel=0" frameborder="0"
allowfullscreen>

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## OkiePoke

I'm on board. An aquarium will be a game-changer. I think pushing it to be on Maps4 is what the focus should be right now. If that doesn't work, information gathered from Maps4 could be used to make a case for a privately funded aquarium. Probably could get boat-loads of TIF money (ha).

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## 5alive

Welcome Dr. Pepper. I love your positivity!

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## tyeomans

I'm all for the aquarium! Downtown needs something new to help promote tourism of some kind. Even though Bricktown is great, it's getting somewhat old.

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## Bunty

Until then the aquarium in the Tulsa area in Jenks is nice.

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## mugofbeer

Welcome drpepper!

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## CloudDeckMedia

Where's a great location?

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## drpepper

> Where's a great location?


Sorry, the Youtube clip doesn't show up on my previous post! I mean if the aquarium lies within the soccer stadium complex, and with nearby Scissortail Park, the convention center, Bricktown and Boathouse District, it will add a lot of value to our downtown. Aquarium is one of those venues that people can visit 365 days a year, whether it rains or snows outside (unlike the zoo).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWHxr5sdu4k

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## gopokes88

What if we all went to the city council meetings,
advocated for why we think an aquarium should be built,
added a temporary sales tax to build it,
and then the resulting revenue from the city could fund it.

Maybe that'll work too

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## OKCRT

First class 300 mil. dollar aquarium is something I would vote for on MAPS. Don't bring me a cheap version to get votes for soccer stadiums I want a first class attraction in OKC that will keep paying off for years to come.

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## HOT ROD

Not to be a negative nancy (or bill) but anyway - I think the acquarium is a good idea but just for Maps V. 

It appears as though Maps IV will be less infrastructure related and more about suring up maintenance of what we already have in addition to doing the sidewalks, lights, and bike trails right; not to mention adding more city transit (BRT, bus shelters, buses) and the dollars likely to go to the mental health and homeless. These and tree beautification are all needed IMO to improve LIVING in OKC imo. 

I think it is good for OKC to take a break (again) from an infrastructure type MAPS this go around and focus on the community on this one. That will make things easier in 5 or so years for another big infrastructure *MAPS V downtown* ($550M); 

such as the $250M+ *OKC Zoo Aquarium*, the $150M+ *30,000 seat football/soccer stadium* [hopefully with significant contribution from team(s) ownership as well this time], and* dual track streetcar expansions* to Capital Hill ($50M), to OCU-Asian District-Plaza ($30M), and the Oklahoma Health Center ($30M) [with the state and OU pitching in as well], along with $40M to dual track key existing streets (Sheridan, N Broadway, Reno, S Robinson) fixing some of the mistakes from MAPS III s we have more dual track in the cbd.

I don't want to see anything MAPS or OKC funds period going to the fairgrounds since they are so well funded/attended - until they come up with a plan to reintroduce the landmark attractions they eliminated for no reason to make the equine park they created back to being the fairgrounds, and I'm honestly hoping the river can start to self develop as well now that their revenue streams should be starting to mature.

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## drpepper

> Not to be a negative nancy (or bill) but anyway - I think the acquarium is a good idea but just for Maps V.


I agree, that's why I proposed a different approach to raise money for the project, through crowdfunding and from private donors. A world-class aquarium will bring so much economic potential to the area, especially with the completion of the convention center and Scissortail Park, and the existence of nearby Boathouse District, Chesapeake Stadium, Bricktown, etc. When people find out we have a convention center next to a world-class aquarium (even better, if the aquarium is part of a mixed-use complex, like the The Dubai Aquarium & Underwater Zoo), they will start organizing events in OKC. San Antonio has been making billions a year by taking advantage of their River Walk. The aquarium can also be used as a wedding venue, fancy restaurants and bars, or a giant classroom/laboratory for STEM education. It also complements the Thunder events.

Below are same statistics I took from the National Aquarium in Baltimore, Maryland website just to get some general ideas about the potential economic impact of an aquarium.

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## BoulderSooner

> What if we all went to the city council meetings,
> advocated for why we think an aquarium should be built,
> added a temporary sales tax to build it,
> and then the resulting revenue from the city could fund it.
> 
> Maybe that'll work too


the zoo would not have a problem operatiing a new aqurium

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## JLCinOKC

> the zoo would not have a problem operatiing a new aqurium


Aquaticus didn't go over very well. 

"...the OKC Zoo will not only pursue ideas for new habitats and guest experiences but execute change to existing habitats like the Noble Aquatic Center, otherwise known as Aquaticus. This November, the Zoo will close the aquarium galleries at Aquaticus. The upgrades necessary to bring the 30-year-old aquarium habitats and associated support areas to or above accreditation standards would be prohibitively expensive."  

https://www.okczoo.org/blog/posts/fu...ng-our-mission

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## Laramie

Recall our first MAPS back in 1993, The Oklahoma City Museum of Arts didn't receive any funds.  Carolyn Hill raised the money necessary to get the museum funded.  She was a native Oklahoman who returned to our city from NYC to make a difference.

*We remember Carolyn Hill:* https://oklahoman.com/article/346105...um-of-art-dies

Still think we should push for funding thru MAPS 4, it just may be the game-changer to get the aquarium funded and a host of projects approved thru  MAPS 4.  Invest big in a downtown aquarium (no less than $150 million) as the MAPS 4 centerpiece in coordination with the Zoo; this project will recoup its value as a tourist attraction.

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## gopokes88

> the zoo would not have a problem operatiing a new aqurium



I was mocking the idea of using crowd funding. Raising a $25-100 million in crowd funding won’t happen. 

The largest crowd fundings in history have been crypto coins which results in the funder receiving the actual coin. 

Something like an aquarium would never come even close. Crowdfunding can’t achieve the scale needed for a project like this.

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## drpepper

> I was mocking the idea of using crowd funding. Raising a $25-100 million in crowd funding won’t happen. 
> 
> The largest crowd fundings in history have been crypto coins which results in the funder receiving the actual coin. 
> 
> Something like an aquarium would never come even close. Crowdfunding can’t achieve the scale needed for a project like this.


Well, I'm a glass-half-full guy, and nothing is impossible if you can sell your ideas. I came from Silicon Valley where a guy convinced investors to give him $120M to develop $400 juicers, and he still couldn't make the machine. https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-shutting-down

So, back to the aquarium, we’ll launch a campaign:
- Platinum donors can get lifetime family tickets to the aquarium for $5,000 x 500 donors = $2.5M
- Gold donors will receive 10 years family tickets for $2,000 x 1000 donors = 2M
- Silver donors will receive 5 years family tickets for $1,000 x 2000 donors = 2M
- Bronze donors will receive 1 year family tickets for $500 x 5000 donors = 2.5M
- Or $20 for a one day ticket x 10000 donors = $0.2M

Aquarium tickets normally cost around $40-$50/each, I will be more than happy to pay $1,000 so my family of 4 can visit the aquarium anytime we want in 5 years. To me, it's a bargain, and OKC is still short of family attractions.

Naming rights:
- If you want your names on the walls, rooms, fish tanks, theater, or aquarium itself? 
Wall plaques: 
- Gold: $250,000 x 100 donors = $2.5
- Platinum: $500,000 x 50 = 2.5M
Rooms: 1M x 10 = $10M
Sharks/dolphins/whales tanks:  $2M x 5 = $10M
Ballrooms/Shops/Restaurants: $5M x 2 = $10M 
Theater: $10M
Aquarium name: $30M

Merchandise:
- Come up with design for mascots, keychains, coffee mugs, pillows, etc. ---> $500,000

Or just simple donations: $1, $2, $5 --> $50,000

So, that's $129.5M.

Last but not least, if we can raise $50M or $100M, we go talk to the executives of Chesapeake, Love's, Continental, Sandridge, Boeing, Thunder, OGE, Hobby Lobby, Crest, Paycom etc. for the other $200M. If George Kaiser and co. could donate $465M to The Gathering Place, someone in OKC can certainly match that.

Crowdfunding is possible, all we need is someone who can put together this campaign and sell it. PM me if you'd like to get together and draft a plan to push this one forward.

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## Laramie

We need to organize, meet & be prepared to present something before the city council or MAPS 4 project meetings in July & August.

Voter approved MAPS 4 funds could build the aquarium; become the centerpiece for the initiative.  

The problem we have on this board, there are too many posters who are going in different directions; not wanting to compromise; they want to dictate what they want and don't want on MAPS 4.  We are being asked to approve projects to be presented before the voters--*you can't craft an initiative where everyone gets what they want and don't want.*

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## gopokes88

> Well, I'm a glass-half-full guy, and nothing is impossible if you can sell your ideas. I came from Silicon Valley where a guy convinced investors to give him $120M to develop $400 juicers, and he still couldn't make the machine. https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-shutting-down
> 
> So, back to the aquarium, we’ll launch a campaign:
> - Platinum donors can get lifetime family tickets to the aquarium for $5,000 x 500 donors = $2.5M
> - Gold donors will receive 10 years family tickets for $2,000 x 1000 donors = 2M
> - Silver donors will receive 5 years family tickets for $1,000 x 2000 donors = 2M
> - Bronze donors will receive 1 year family tickets for $500 x 5000 donors = 2.5M
> - Or $20 for a one day ticket x 10000 donors = $0.2M
> 
> ...



Haha omg this is straight madness.

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## Ross MacLochness

you guys are weird

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## Mike_M

> Well, I'm a glass-half-full guy, and nothing is impossible if you can sell your ideas. I came from Silicon Valley where a guy convinced investors to give him $120M to develop $400 juicers, and he still couldn't make the machine. https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-shutting-down
> 
> So, back to the aquarium, well launch a campaign:
> - Platinum donors can get lifetime family tickets to the aquarium for $5,000 x 500 donors = $2.5M
> - Gold donors will receive 10 years family tickets for $2,000 x 1000 donors = 2M
> - Silver donors will receive 5 years family tickets for $1,000 x 2000 donors = 2M
> - Bronze donors will receive 1 year family tickets for $500 x 5000 donors = 2.5M
> - Or $20 for a one day ticket x 10000 donors = $0.2M
> 
> ...


While your optimism is appreciated, there are unfortunately several flaws to your comparison. First of all, you are limited to the Oklahoma City area population for all of your funding. Dallas and Tulsa already have aquariums so you likely aren't getting any support outside of this area.

You're also ignoring ROI. In Silicon Valley, people invest thousands to make millions, and millions to make billions. There is essentially zero ROI in an aquarium in the midwestern US. You will find donors to help support an already functioning aquarium, but I see little to no chance of crowdfunding the actual creation of this kind of project.

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## drpepper

> While your optimism is appreciated, there are unfortunately several flaws to your comparison. First of all, you are limited to the Oklahoma City area population for all of your funding. Dallas and Tulsa already have aquariums so you likely aren't getting any support outside of this area..


I indeed considered that, if I didn't, I wouldn't put 1000, 5000 donors in my calculation.




> You're also ignoring ROI. In Silicon Valley, people invest thousands to make millions, and millions to make billions. There is essentially zero ROI in an aquarium in the midwestern US. You will find donors to help support an already functioning aquarium, but I see little to no chance of crowdfunding the actual creation of this kind of project.


Brought up the investors thing just to stress the power of good marketing, you can do a lot of thing if you can sell your ideas. I believe I didn't mention investors anywhere in my calculation. Anyway, $5,000 for a lifetime family ticket to a world-class aquarium (assuming it's not a lame $100M aquarium) doesn't sound like a reasonable ROI to you.

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## drpepper

> Haha omg this is straight madness.


I know, right? As silly as you think the MAPS 4 route will work (and the 10 years you need to wait to see the day it actually opens.)

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## Mike_M

> I indeed considered that, if I didn't, I wouldn't put 1000, 5000 donors in my calculation.
> 
> 
> 
> Brought up the investors thing just to stress the power of good marketing, you can do a lot of thing if you can sell your ideas. I believe I didn't mention investors anywhere in my calculation. Anyway, $5,000 for a lifetime family ticket to a world-class aquarium (assuming it's not a lame $100M aquarium) doesn't sound like a reasonable ROI to you.



Brought up the investors thing just to stress the power of good marketing, you can do a lot of thing if you can sell your ideas. I believe I didn't mention investors anywhere in my calculation. Anyway, $5,000 for a lifetime family ticket to a world-class aquarium (assuming it's not a lame $100M aquarium) doesn't sound like a reasonable ROI to you.[/QUOTE]

Okay, so you are tapping out all of Oklahoma's wealthy donors just to build this. You're giving roughly 3600 families free admission for the first 5+ years for a single donation. Those families will almost assuredly share their free admission with their friends, so lets assume somewhere around 7000 families that will not pay admission for 5 years. Schools usually pay less than half price for field trip admission.

Also, if it is crowd-funded, who runs the project? Who hires the contractors? Who liasons with the government? Who is in charge? An aquarium doesn't just build itself.

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## gopokes88

Dr Pepper basically wants to raise money on people’s ego trips and the like 37 people in okc would would chip in over 1,000+ for a 5 year pass. 

You’re new here Dr. Pepper. Ou and osu vacuum up pretty much all of the ego trip money.

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## gopokes88

> I know, right? As silly as you think the MAPS 4 route will work (and the 10 years you need to wait to see the day it actually opens.)


Yeah having to wait 10 years is a royal pain. Better try to fundraise it in 1 year and build it in 6 months so you don’t have to wait as long.

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## drpepper

> Yeah having to wait 10 years is a royal pain. Better try to fundraise it in 1 year and build it in 6 months so you dont have to wait as long.


Indeed, you may die before you can put it on the "maps," better to doing something than sitting on your hands and whinning why why there's not my dear child on MAPS.

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## EBAH

Seriously, why in gods name does everyone keep talking about Aquariums. 1) THIS IS NOT GODAMNED 1983, zoos and aquariums are considered by many younger people to be cruel and extremely passe, most of the people I know and hang out with literally refuse to go to any of them  2) WE ARE NOT A COASTAL CITY, you know why the Baltimore Aquarium is so popular? because a lot of people visiting Baltimore are also visiting THE OCEAN  3) For the love of god, quit with the silly ideas of city run mega destinations. Dallas has a (lame) aquarium and it's a private venture, it's gross and run down and weird, but the city didn't have to pay for it or operate it and they still get to reap whatever economic benefits it produces. 4) The cornerstones of downtown have been set and it's silly to keep piling on when we can't attract people to lease space in office buildings and our growth of population has slowed to a trickle. WE NEED RESIDENTS DOWNTOWN not more suburban family destinations. The improvements needed to the inner city and downtown are necessary to make the city propper a more attractive place to both potential residents and employers. A vanity aquarium for no logical reason will not help to accomplish any of that.

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## Plutonic Panda

Dallas aquarium is anything but lame and though I have read articles trying to claim younger people don’t like them but anecdotally I disagree and the stats on zoos seem be indicative of healthy attendance and record numbers at that.

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## EBAH

> Dallas aquarium is anything but lame and though I have read articles trying to claim younger people don’t like them but anecdotally I disagree and the stats on zoos seem be indicative of healthy attendance and record numbers at that.


I know they are still popular with many, and that my experience is anecdotal, but there really is more of a general feeling these days that animals in cages attractions are inhumane and on the way out. 

Either way I'm a fan of MAPS4 ideas that make our city more attractive to LIVE IN and WORK IN, not more reasons for people from Edmond to come visit for 2 hours and leave.

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## Rover

> I know they are still popular with many, and that my experience is anecdotal, but there really is more of a general feeling these days that animals in cages attractions are inhumane and on the way out. 
> 
> Either way I'm a fan of MAPS4 ideas that make our city more attractive to LIVE IN and WORK IN, not more reasons for people from Edmond to come visit for 2 hours and leave.


Or Moore, or Midwest City, or Norman, or Del City, or Bethany, or Yukon, or El Reno, or Mustang, or Britain ,or Piedmont .... we dont need to host any of those terrible suburbanites.  They dont help the economy or add to our great inner OKC society.  Just wonder why Edmond is always the devil.

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## HangryHippo

> Just wonder why Edmond is always the devil.


Easy.  Because it's a soulless piece of sh*t.





That's a joke.

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## EBAH

> Or Moore, or Midwest City, or Norman, or Del City, or Bethany, or Yukon, or El Reno, or Mustang, or Britain ,or Piedmont .... we dont need to host any of those terrible suburbanites.  They dont help the economy or add to our great inner OKC society.  Just wonder why Edmond is always the devil.


Don't get me wrong, I LOVE suburbanites visiting, and I LOVE collecting the sales tax, and enjoying our institutions, like many I was raised in a suburb too. Also, youre right, no reason to make Edmond the bad guy really I just meant any suburb. I don't think those people are bad people. I have nothing against suburbanites visiting at all of course, that's all incredibly productive and good for funding our city. 

WHAT I AM SAYING, is that now we have built a downtown worthy of visiting, and complimented it with an inner city also worth visiting, it's time to spend money on our current problem. 

The current problem needing to be addressed is no longer getting people to come to downtown or to think that it is a fun place to visit, we've largely accomplished this and continue to build upon it with steady improvements.

The problems we need to address now are how to keep infill projects moving for, getting the occupancy rates of our downtown structures up so that they are more than a backdrop to a basketball stadium and more a functional tool to a thriving business and residential community. We need to be focused on making inner Oklahoma City function fully for its actual residents. 

I love the suburban visitors and the cool new stuff but if you actually live in the actual city it is very frustrating to think about aquariums for suburban families to visit, meanwhile the infrastructure I'm using every day is in terrible shape, my friends are being hit by cars biking home from work, I watch old people walk in the street day after day because there isn't anywhere better to walk, drive past vacant building after vacant building all over the place, watch people walking for MILES from where I work on the west side to get around because the bus service is laughable, just basic stuff. If you make a vibrant downtown that people are constantly in 365 days a year, guess what? People that want to make money, might just actually build an aquarium without the city having to pay for it. 

Anyway, I'm venting a bit, but geeeeeze MAPS addressed the problems of its day, and it's time that we start realizing in order to actually fulfill its mission statement this one needs to address the city's problems in THIS day.

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## jn1780

> Seriously, why in gods name does everyone keep talking about Aquariums. 1) THIS IS NOT GODAMNED 1983, zoos and aquariums are considered by many younger people to be cruel and extremely passe, most of the people I know and hang out with literally refuse to go to any of them  2) WE ARE NOT A COASTAL CITY, you know why the Baltimore Aquarium is so popular? because a lot of people visiting Baltimore are also visiting THE OCEAN  3) For the love of god, quit with the silly ideas of city run mega destinations. Dallas has a (lame) aquarium and it's a private venture, it's gross and run down and weird, but the city didn't have to pay for it or operate it and they still get to reap whatever economic benefits it produces. 4) The cornerstones of downtown have been set and it's silly to keep piling on when we can't attract people to lease space in office buildings and our growth of population has slowed to a trickle. WE NEED RESIDENTS DOWNTOWN not more suburban family destinations. The improvements needed to the inner city and downtown are necessary to make the city propper a more attractive place to both potential residents and employers. A vanity aquarium for no logical reason will not help to accomplish any of that.


Like you said, its 1983. The purpose of zoos has grown beyond entertainment.  The OKC zoo isn't getting animals that were recently captured in the wild. Unfortunately, a lot of animals wouldn't survive out in the wild and in a lot of cases their species would be extinct. Panda's are the most famous examples.

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## EBAH

> Like you said, its 1983. The purpose of zoos has grown beyond entertainment.  The OKC zoo isn't getting animals that were recently captured in the wild. Unfortunately, a lot of animals wouldn't survive out in the wild and in a lot of cases their species would be extinct. Panda's are the most famous examples.


so this new aquarium would be rescuing local aquatic life? or serving some higher purpose? nah man, it's an animals in boxes display. Also, even if we can agree that they're going to stay super popular in the coming decades (which trust me, I am way far from agreeing on) still isn't a valid reason that the city of Oklahoma City should be operating an aquarium for decades. It's a totally silly proposition, not to mention, WE ALREADY BUILT ONE AND IT WAS A DISASTER, the city has already failed RECENTLY to properly run an aquarium that cost the city Millions of dollars to build, back in the 80's when everyone thought Sea World was a thing we needed to copy because that was guaranteed to be a super popular thing for many decades to come hahaha

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## drpepper

> Seriously, why in gods name does everyone keep talking about Aquariums. 1) THIS IS NOT GODAMNED 1983, zoos and aquariums are considered by many younger people to be cruel and extremely passe, most of the people I know and hang out with literally refuse to go to any of them  2) WE ARE NOT A COASTAL CITY, you know why the Baltimore Aquarium is so popular? because a lot of people visiting Baltimore are also visiting THE OCEAN  3) For the love of god, quit with the silly ideas of city run mega destinations. Dallas has a (lame) aquarium and it's a private venture, it's gross and run down and weird, but the city didn't have to pay for it or operate it and they still get to reap whatever economic benefits it produces. 4) The cornerstones of downtown have been set and it's silly to keep piling on when we can't attract people to lease space in office buildings and our growth of population has slowed to a trickle. WE NEED RESIDENTS DOWNTOWN not more suburban family destinations. The improvements needed to the inner city and downtown are necessary to make the city propper a more attractive place to both potential residents and employers. A vanity aquarium for no logical reason will not help to accomplish any of that.



1) If you're mad at the aquarium, feel free to leave this discussion, I didn't start this post to rally people to steal money from your other beloved MAPS 4 projects, so you should never be angry (it's not good for your health, and people usually shouldn't waste time dealing with grumpy guys), because nobody steals anything from you, and you have no business here. Btw, since it's not 1983, what we should build in 2019, a space shuttle?

2) Mention God here won't help you make your points any clearer.

3) Atlanta is not a COASTAL CITY, Chattanooga is not a COASTAL CITY, now check out what the aquariums have brought them, and I hope you enjoy the all capitalized "coastal city."

4) Why should we quit? If you don't like it, check back 1) above and feel free to go back to your little forest

5) Why someone trades his house in Edmond with spacious shelter and garage for an overpriced apartment downtown (and with schools that aren't as good) if not much thing going on there? The aquarium (is one of those things that) helps bring visitors to the downtown, and it's ready 24/7 while the lame soccer stadium is useless when it's too hot, or too cold, or it snows, or it rains, it helps the people going to the conferences, Thunder games spend their money, then restaurants and shops are opened to help them spend even more money, then people will start moving to downtown to live because of those shops and restaurants, nobody would live downtown because of its first class sidewalks. Big companies won't move to downtown if their employees have to pay for parking and still have nowhere to go for lunch. Big companies constantly need to attract young talents (from way more exciting places like San Francisco, LA, Denver, NYC), and those guys won't come here just to jog around the Scissortail Park after work.

You get that know? It can't be simpler than that. You're welcome!

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## stile99

I'm old enough to remember when crowdfunding was known as admission fee.

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## drpepper

> I'm old enough to remember when crowdfunding was known as admission fee.


If you're still not too old to use the internet, you may check out Kickstarter, Indiegogo, or Gofundme to see that things keep evolving.

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## gopokes88

> Indeed, you may die before you can put it on the "maps," better to doing something than sitting on your hands and whinning why why there's not my dear child on MAPS.


I couldn’t care less if they built a water zoo or not

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## drpepper

> I couldnt care less if they built a water zoo or not


I'm curios, why did you bother to read this post anyway? The title is clear, "crowdfunding", that means no one is trying to steal your MAPS 4 money to build something that you don't care, then you joined the conversation just to let people know that you don't care. LOL.

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## jn1780

> so this new aquarium would be rescuing local aquatic life? or serving some higher purpose? nah man, it's an animals in boxes display. Also, even if we can agree that they're going to stay super popular in the coming decades (which trust me, I am way far from agreeing on) still isn't a valid reason that the city of Oklahoma City should be operating an aquarium for decades. It's a totally silly proposition, not to mention, WE ALREADY BUILT ONE AND IT WAS A DISASTER, the city has already failed RECENTLY to properly run an aquarium that cost the city Millions of dollars to build, back in the 80's when everyone thought Sea World was a thing we needed to copy because that was guaranteed to be a super popular thing for many decades to come hahaha


Serious question is there another Aquarium built in OKC I dont know about?  What was built at OKC zoo was primarily built around Sea Lions and Dolphins with the aquarium aspect an afterthought. I dont think anyone is talking about a Sea World here. 

Like was said before, it doesnt look like aquarium will be part of Maps anyway. The zoo may eventually circle back and build one with it's own funds years down the road once they touched every part of the OKC zoo which is years down the road.

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## Laramie

*ERROR;*  Moved to General Civic Issues, Ideas for MAPS..

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## BoulderSooner

> Seriously, why in gods name does everyone keep talking about Aquariums. 1) THIS IS NOT GODAMNED 1983, zoos and aquariums are considered by many younger people to be cruel and extremely passe, most of the people I know and hang out with literally refuse to go to any of them  2) WE ARE NOT A COASTAL CITY, you know why the Baltimore Aquarium is so popular? because a lot of people visiting Baltimore are also visiting THE OCEAN  3) For the love of god, quit with the silly ideas of city run mega destinations. Dallas has a (lame) aquarium and it's a private venture, it's gross and run down and weird, but the city didn't have to pay for it or operate it and they still get to reap whatever economic benefits it produces. 4) The cornerstones of downtown have been set and it's silly to keep piling on when we can't attract people to lease space in office buildings and our growth of population has slowed to a trickle. WE NEED RESIDENTS DOWNTOWN not more suburban family destinations. The improvements needed to the inner city and downtown are necessary to make the city propper a more attractive place to both potential residents and employers. A vanity aquarium for no logical reason will not help to accomplish any of that.


why so angry??   

people don't go to baltimore to vist the ocean   

also your group   is not remotly representived of the population of the city

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## drpepper

> why so angry??   
> 
> people don't go to baltimore to vist the ocean   
> 
> also your group   is not remotly representived of the population of the city


I know right, some people are acting as if they own every square inch of this city.

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## drpepper

> so this new aquarium would be rescuing local aquatic life? or serving some higher purpose? nah man, it's an animals in boxes display. Also, even if we can agree that they're going to stay super popular in the coming decades (which trust me, I am way far from agreeing on) still isn't a valid reason that the city of Oklahoma City should be operating an aquarium for decades. It's a totally silly proposition, not to mention, WE ALREADY BUILT ONE AND IT WAS A DISASTER, the city has already failed RECENTLY to properly run an aquarium that cost the city Millions of dollars to build, back in the 80's when everyone thought Sea World was a thing we needed to copy because that was guaranteed to be a super popular thing for many decades to come hahaha


I still don't see any reason why we should trust you if you provide zero fact, just a boatload of personal opinions.  If you have a chance, I'd recommend you to visit a serious, world-class aquariums!

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## Plutonic Panda

> I know they are still popular with many, and that my experience is anecdotal, but there really is more of a general feeling these days that animals in cages attractions are inhumane and on the way out. 
> 
> Either way I'm a fan of MAPS4 ideas that make our city more attractive to LIVE IN and WORK IN, not more reasons for people from Edmond to come visit for 2 hours and leave.


Sure but if built right as the OP described it would bring in many more than just those from Edmond or the suburbs. It would make the CC more attractive and provide yet another reason to make OKC more than a destination city than it currently is. 

Its interesting to me that many here criticizing the OPs plans arent doing anything more than just ripping into it and providing no plans of their own. Pointless criticism at its best.

PS, that last paragraph isnt directed at you.

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## cappa

I think your optimism is refreshing and your outline to bring in money doesn't really seem all that crazy. Not sure why people are so opposed to an idea of a crowd funded aquarium. I fear this would be a very very extremely complex project, though, and that people would be hesitant to contribute unless there was a finely detailed plan for everything (who would operate, where it'd be located, what it'd look like, what type of aquatic life would be there and where would we source them from, etc.)

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## drpepper

> I think your optimism is refreshing and your outline to bring in money doesn't really seem all that crazy. Not sure why people are so opposed to an idea of a crowd funded aquarium. I fear this would be a very very extremely complex project, though, and that people would be hesitant to contribute unless there was a finely detailed plan for everything (who would operate, where it'd be located, what it'd look like, what type of aquatic life would be there and where would we source them from, etc.)


Thank you for your kind words! I used to contact the people at the Oklahoma Zoo and proposed this idea, but seems like they prefer the MAPS 4 route. I believe it starts with a group of people, who believe the feasibility of this plan (or any other plan), get together and come up with a plan, then invite some experienced people with great connections (architects, developers, urban planners, zoologists, businessmen, etc.) to get on board and help prepare a detailed plan, then the campaign is launched and see what will happen.

So, we should start at some place (then doing something), my first task, I believe, is to present my idea on this board and try to explain points as best as I cane.

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## OKCRT

> Sure but if built right as the OP described it would bring in many more than just those from Edmond or the suburbs. It would make the CC more attractive and provide yet another reason to make OKC more than a destination city than it currently is. 
> 
> Its interesting to me that many here criticizing the OPs plans arent doing anything more than just ripping into it and providing no plans of their own. Pointless criticism at its best.
> 
> PS, that last paragraph isnt directed at you.


This is why I say if they build it to do it right and make it world class. Yes it might cost 300-400 mil. but it would attract visitors from all around the region IMO. If they want a cheaper knockoff for 100 mil or so I wouldn't vote for that. Do it right and first class or don't do it at all. It needs to be a top attraction.

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## Plutonic Panda

^^^^ I completely agree.

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## drpepper

> This is why I say if they build it to do it right and make it world class. Yes it might cost 300-400 mil. but it would attract visitors from all around the region IMO. If they want a cheaper knockoff for 100 mil or so I wouldn't vote for that. Do it right and first class or don't do it at all. It needs to be a top attraction.


I believe the Oklahoma Zoo executives only rooted for a lousy $150M aquarium. Yes, you're right, we shouldn't build another boring aquarium like the one in Jenks, a world-class aquarium will make that new CC several times more valuable.

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## BoulderSooner

> I believe the Oklahoma Zoo executives only rooted for a lousy $150M aquarium. Yes, you're right, we shouldn't build another boring aquarium like the one in Jenks, a world-class aquarium will make that new CC several times more valuable.


their goal was 200-250

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## drpepper

> their goal was 200-250


From this source, the number was $100M: https://www.news9.com/story/39826663...r-new-aquarium

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## Eric

> I believe the Oklahoma Zoo executives only rooted for a lousy $150M aquarium. Yes, you're right, we shouldn't build another boring aquarium like the one in Jenks, a world-class aquarium will make that new CC several times more valuable.


I do think there will be fear of being "Sea Worlded". It may not be here yet, but I can see this sentiment on the horizon. 

That said, your slight of the Jenks aquarium is a bit off putting considering your goals. The Jenks aquarium is largely a conservation effort with a large portion of the exhibits representing local wildlife. 

And ironically, the headlining event there (the shark tank) has many MANY issues with retaining inhabitants. Apparently some fish really aren't meant to be in cages after all. 

And I personally enjoy going to aquariums. I just think there is a bit of a chill in the water so to speak surrounding new ventures.

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## OKCRT

If done right it would be a game changer for that area and make OKC a destination spot for many folks vacationing.

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## Laramie

Two items proposed by the city, the coliseum & stadium's *maximum cost* range together is $188 million will represent less than 20% of the MAPS 4 package if it totals $1 billion; that figure is based on previous initiatives & MAPS 3 which totaled $777 million.  




> Holt: Two myths in this question I'd like to address. The potential State Fair and multipurpose stadium projects are simply not going to be centerpieces of MAPS
> 
> 4. They may or may not be included in some fashion, but when I play with the numbers, those two add up to less than 10 percent of a package.--Mayor David Holt, OKC Central Chat: 06-21-19 Oklahoman:  http://digital.newsok.com/Olive/ODN/...n/default.aspx


1993 Original MAPS I  *$350 million*
2001 MAPS II for Kids *$514 million*
2008 MAPS for Hoops $100 million (NBA arena upgrades & practice facility required)
2009 MAPS III *$777 million*
2020 MAPS IV estimated  *$1 billion*
The new coliseum $96.6 million estimate and the stadium  an estimated cost of $65 million to *$80 million* for construction and $6 million to *$12 million* for site acquisition.

*Coliseum bids for place in OKC's MAPS 4:* https://oklahoman.com/article/561923...in-okcs-maps-4

*10,000-seat OKC soccer stadium proposed for MAPS 4:* https://oklahoman.com/article/562437...sed-for-maps-4

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## shawnw

From reddit, take it for what it's worth...

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## gopokes88

Sweet. Rather than TIF let’s just give them all of Dr Peppers money

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## Midtowner

> I know they are still popular with many, and that my experience is anecdotal, but there really is more of a general feeling these days that animals in cages attractions are inhumane and on the way out. 
> 
> Either way I'm a fan of MAPS4 ideas that make our city more attractive to LIVE IN and WORK IN, not more reasons for people from Edmond to come visit for 2 hours and leave.


Being able to take my kiddo to things which are both entertaining and educational are great reasons to consider it more attractive to live in OKC. I am at the zoo or science museum almost every weekend during the year. Adding an aquarium to the mix would be great--and the Zoo would be idea as it has the land area to make this work, an existing facility which could be integrated into a larger project, and it could share a lot of support facilities with an aquarium. 

The Jenks aquarium, by the way, isn't just a pokey dinky aquarium. It's a pretty great facility.  I probably go at least twice a year.

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## jn1780

> From reddit, take it for what it's worth...


It sounds so far-fetched that it could be true. lol 

Has anyone been to Wonders of Wildlife built by Bass Pro in Springfield? I thought it was cool, but it was kind of expensive and this was basically built to get more people to come to Bass Pro so that just goes to show how much it costs to operate a nice aquarium.

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## tyeomans

> From reddit, take it for what it's worth...


It definitely could be true. Now that I think about it, I get my haircut in Duncan Brothers inside the mall, and my hairdresser had told me that they were thinking about shutting down that location. They had a big meeting recently with the mall, but I haven't heard since. She didn't tell me why they were closing, but I couldn't imagine it being due to slow business because she's always telling me about how busy they always are.

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## mugofbeer

> Dr Pepper basically wants to raise money on peoples ego trips and the like 37 people in okc would would chip in over 1,000+ for a 5 year pass. 
> 
> Youre new here Dr. Pepper. Ou and osu vacuum up pretty much all of the ego trip money.


Stop being such a negative - Nellie!   😁

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