# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Norman >  New Restaurant to Norman - 3000 Classen (Hwy 9 & Classen) - any thoughts?

## choosegreen

I'm working on recent land sale at Hwy 9 & Classen Blvd.  2.5 acres at Hwy 9 & Classen Blvd sold for a little over $1M to Mark S Group Corp.  The lot line adjustment indicates a restaurant will be there & the mtg is for $2.6M.  Any guesses as to what will be constructed?  
Mark S Group recently purchased the former Poblano Grill to the S of the BuffaloWildWings on I-35 in Moore.  Other records indicate that Mark S Group owns other BWW restaurants in the metro.  That's my guess but I'll take any other suggestions.

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## HangryHippo

If a Buffalo Wild Wings is built in Norman, I fully expect it to set sales records.

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## jedicurt

that would be a terrible spot for a Buffalo Wild Wings, in my opinion... and i live really close to there, so it's not like i'm saying that because i would have to drive all the way across town to get there

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## HangryHippo

I don't disagree that it would be a terrible location, but the drive to Moore is beyond annoying and I think the university crowd would have it doing a bang-up business.

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## s00nr1

Disagree completely -- that area would be exceptionally easy to access compared to the rest of Norman and you have thousands of students living in some 4 or 5 major apartment complexes within 5 miles of it.

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## jedicurt

the McDonalds in the area is already not easy to access, the subway, and other shops are not particularly easy to access... so why would this restaurant being built in the same area be so easy to access?  

Coming off of Highway 9 to get there absolutely wouldn't be easy, and perhaps getting to it going south on Classen would be easy, but it would not be easy to leave unless the entire intersection were redone.

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## kevinpate

If they build it, they will come. Not me,  but more than enough to make them happy.




oh, if anyone wonders why not me, it's simple.  If I'm at Hwy 9 and hungry, I'm far more likely to pop to Kendall's in Noble than to settle for wings.

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## jedicurt

> oh, if anyone wonders why not me, it's simple.  If I'm at Hwy 9 and hungry, I'm far more likely to pop to Kendall's in Noble than to settle for wings.


Dang it... now i want Kendalls.   Kevin, i know longer like you

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## Dubya61

> If they build it, they will come. Not me,  but more than enough to make them happy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh, if anyone wonders why not me, it's simple.  If I'm at Hwy 9 and hungry, I'm far more likely to pop to Kendall's in Noble than to settle for wings.


or catfish on Fridays!

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## venture

> the McDonalds in the area is already not easy to access, the subway, and other shops are not particularly easy to access... so why would this restaurant being built in the same area be so easy to access?  
> 
> Coming off of Highway 9 to get there absolutely wouldn't be easy, and perhaps getting to it going south on Classen would be easy, but it would not be easy to leave unless the entire intersection were redone.


The biggest issue at times is making a left on 77/Classen. I have a feel we'll see a traffic light there at some point. However, I'm not going to go out of my way to another part of Norman because I can't wait 2 minutes to make a left handed turn. That's just silly.

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## soonerliberal

A significant number of the student-geared apartment complexes are within 2 miles of that intersection... sounds like it would be an extremely successful location for a BWW.

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## kevinpate

It will be a BWW



> Buffalo Wings and Circle K on the way
>  John Proctor sold two pieces of property this year to businesses that  are located in south Norman in Empire Addition near the Highway 9 and  Highway 77 intersection. Circle K purchased property in July and began  construction this week. Buffalo Wild Wings bought property in November  and hopes to start construction in January and be open by June.


Business briefs  Business  The Norman Transcript

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## MikeLucky

> It will be a BWW
> 
> Business briefs  Business  The Norman Transcript


Glad to hear about the BWW...  I was hoping for a new big OnCue rather than a Circle K, but heck... they are both better than 7-11...

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## kevinpate

> Glad to hear about the BWW...  I was hoping for a new big OnCue rather than a Circle K, but heck... they are both better than 7-11...


I'll be surprised if OnCue doesn't expand in Norman now that their toes are in the water with the N Flood shop under construction.

All the same, the new 7/11 at Flood & Robinson appears to be doing a monster business. Will be interesting to find out any specific impact once the OnCue does open on up the road.

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## ljbab728

There are few 7-11 stores that I see anywhere that seem to have a problem drawing customers whether people are in love with them or not.

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## dankrutka

I would have loved to see a BWW on Main Street like the one on Mass St in Lawrence. Of course, Norman continues its sprawl.

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## MikeLucky

> I would have loved to see a BWW on Main Street like the one on Mass St in Lawrence. Of course, Norman continues its sprawl.


Norman is a suburb... it's okay for it to be sprawl...  you urbanists just want to take over the whole damn world. lol

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## HangryHippo

> I would have loved to see a BWW on Main Street like the one on Mass St in Lawrence. Of course, Norman continues its sprawl.


This is exactly what I was hoping for as well.  Norman just refuses to grow in cool, intelligent ways.

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## MikeLucky

> This is exactly what I was hoping for as well.  Norman just refuses to grow in cool, intelligent ways.


I bet this BWW will be very successful, so the owners AND all the patrons will probably say this IS growth in a cool intelligent way.  Personally, I will probably go to this BWW at least once a week... if it were downtown, it would be maybe once a month.  So, tell me again why this particular decision is uncool or stupid?????

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## HangryHippo

> I bet this BWW will be very successful, so the owners AND all the patrons will probably say this IS growth in a cool intelligent way.  Personally, I will probably go to this BWW at least once a week... if it were downtown, it would be maybe once a month.  So, tell me again why this particular decision is uncool or stupid?????


When I made that comment, I was thinking how cool it would have been if BWW had built on Main St or near the Campus Corner area, anywhere that already has life where the BWW could add more life to it.  Sort of a rising tide lifts all boats type thing.  If I could figure out how to post a picture here, I would post the one I found of the BWW in Lawrence, KS that was referenced earlier.  It's very nicely done with patio seating that would fit very well along Main St. or anywhere on Campus Corner, as opposed to some middling corner next to a hideous strip mall and McDonald's and a Circle K.  I guess it's a higher standard and Norman has shown it doesn't readily accept or welcome those.

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## soonerfan_in_okc

> When I made that comment, I was thinking how cool it would have been if BWW had built on Main St or near the Campus Corner area, anywhere that already has life where the BWW could add more life to it.  Sort of a rising tide lifts all boats type thing.  If I could figure out how to post a picture here, I would post the one I found of the BWW in Lawrence, KS that was referenced earlier.  It's very nicely done with patio seating that would fit very well along Main St. or anywhere on Campus Corner, as opposed to some middling corner next to a hideous strip mall and McDonald's and a Circle K.  *I guess it's a higher standard and Norman has shown it doesn't readily accept or welcome those*.


  All because a private developer is bringing a BWW's to an area without dense development??  You make it sound like the city of Norman rejected a plan to build a BWW's on main street.

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## ljbab728

> All because a private developer is bringing a BWW's to an area without dense development??  You make it sound like the city of Norman rejected a plan to build a BWW's on main street.


You're right.  Some people always like to make it sound like a city doesn't accept or welcome something when it's a developer that makes those decisions instead of the city.

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## dankrutka

It's part of a larger pattern in Norman. The BWW will be fine, but it doesn't make Norman better than the million other places with a BWW. A good business like this could add to an area that actually makes Norman unique and attractive... Like Mass St in Lawrence. When I am on Mass St it's an experience. Main St could actually use a couple chains to stabilize business. No one will ever think Norman is cool because they have one of a million BWWs with nothing much around it. Again, in isolation this means nothing. The larger pattern is the problem.

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## HangryHippo

> It's part of a larger pattern in Norman. The BWW will be fine, but it doesn't make Norman better than the million other places with a BWW. A good business like this could add to an area that actually makes Norman unique and attractive... Like Mass St in Lawrence. When I am on Mass St it's an experience. Main St could actually use a couple chains to stabilize business. No one will ever think Norman is cool because they have one of a million BWWs with nothing much around it. Again, in isolation this means nothing. The larger pattern is the problem.


Exactly!!  Taken as an isolated incident, my response absolutely looks like a foolish commentary on a random BWW, but taken in the larger context of Norman's development patterns, it's a problem.  There are opportunities being missed and I think Norman could be more proactive in facilitating experiences for its residents.

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## mcca7596

> Norman is a suburb... it's okay for it to be sprawl...  you urbanists just want to take over the whole damn world. lol


That's Norman's problem, it doesn't view itself as a city unto itself (the third largest one in the state!)

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## ljbab728

> Exactly!!  Taken as an isolated incident, my response absolutely looks like a foolish commentary on a random BWW, but taken in the larger context of Norman's development patterns, it's a problem.  There are opportunities being missed and I think Norman could be more proactive in facilitating experiences for its residents.


And how would you suggest that Norman (whatever you mean by that) be more proactive?  Do you want the city to dictate that a business can't locate in a properly zoned area because they think it would fit better somewhere else?

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## HangryHippo

> And how would you suggest that Norman (whatever you mean by that) be more proactive?  Do you want the city to dictate that a business can't locate in a properly zoned area because they think it would fit better somewhere else?


Yes, exactly.  Focus on something other than if it has the correct zoning and maybe consider correct fit.  I know it's an abstract concept around here.

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## kevinpate

> Yes, exactly.  Focus on something other than if it has the correct zoning and maybe consider correct fit.  I know it's an abstract concept around here.


So turn over to the local govt. not only questions of zoning, but turn the city staff into the uber developer as well? Require govt. control of specific business per available location rather than location of general type of zones?  

You might want to think on that a bit longer.  Perhaps even envision some of the unintended consequences of such submission to govt. control.

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## HangryHippo

> So turn over to the local govt. not only questions of zoning, but turn the city staff into the uber developer as well? Require govt. control of specific business per available location rather than location of general type of zones?  
> 
> You might want to think on that a bit longer.  Perhaps even envision some of the unintended consequences of such submission to govt. control.


Kevin, feel free to save your hyperbole for elsewhere as I said nothing about the government controlling anything.  I stated that I thought it would have been cool if Norman could have swayed BWW to choose Main St. as their destination instead of a field on the way to Noble.  A business that is as busy as BWW could help drive traffic for the rest of Main St.  Instead, this BWW will be yet another development on the fringe as opposed to bringing some additional life to another area that I'd like to see continue to grow and I see that as a disappointment.

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## kevinpate

> Kevin, feel free to save your hyperbole for elsewhere as I said nothing about the government controlling anything.  I stated that I thought it would have been cool if Norman could have swayed BWW to choose Main St. as their destination instead of a field on the way to Noble.  A business that is as busy as BWW could help drive traffic for the rest of Main St.  Instead, this BWW will be yet another development on the fringe as opposed to bringing some additional life to another area that I'd like to see continue to grow and I see that as a disappointment.


What hyperbole?  You were specifically asked by another poster:



> Do you want the city to dictate that a business can't locate in a  properly zoned area because they think it would fit better somewhere  else?


You responded



> Yes, exactly. Focus on something other than if it has the correct zoning and maybe consider correct fit.


No hyperbole involved when you are willing to allow the govt. to dictate to Developer A it can not have a project solely because the city wants the project to go on another location (which may or may not have any connection to Developer A.)

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## HangryHippo

I guess the city shouldn't "dictate" where the business can open, but I do think the city could have a better development focus.  Do you really think this proposed location is the best one they could have chosen in Norman?

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## kevinpate

My point is, it is _not_ the city's choice, and it shouldn't be, to tell a developer "We don't approve setting a BWW at Hwy 9. We want you or someone else to drop one at Main/Crawford. We think that will help downtown. It's your problem if you don't own any downtown property. A BWW goes there in Norman or not at all."

on edit.

I do think a city can approach property owners and encourage, via incentives, to develop their DT property, or their property anywhere, in a manner that promotes growth in the area, or discourages it when appropriate (like buying up a buffer area near Sutton Wilderness a while back to preserve it)

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## HangryHippo

That's a fair point.  After pondering this, I don't think it should be an all or nothing situation either.  That certainly wouldn't help anyone.

This second thought is what I would like to see.  I think it could be a good approach to helping solidify Norman's downtown (or whatever area they're interested in bolstering/protecting/discouraging/etc).

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## MikeLucky

> I guess the city shouldn't "dictate" where the business can open, but I do think the city could have a better development focus.  Do you really think this proposed location is the best one they could have chosen in Norman?


If they ever actually move forward with the Wal-mart/Lowe's there at Hwy. 9/77... then, I would say YES, it is probably the best location for them at the moment.  Personally, I'm hoping that with them going forward with a BWW there, it means they are foreshadowing something about the Wal-Mart/Lowe's finally getting built soon.

But, what do I know?  I'm just a small minded sprawler...

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## HangryHippo

Wichita and Kevin, I reread this thread and I did not intend to sound as abrasive as I might have.  I certainly value both of your opinions and contributions to the thread.  I just want to see Norman start reaching some of its potential and I don't think this development helps it do that as much as I would like.  But that may be living in a fantasy land.

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## MikeLucky

> Wichita and Kevin, I reread this thread and I did not intend to sound as abrasive as I might have.  I certainly value both of your opinions and contributions to the thread.  I just want to see Norman start reaching some of its potential and I don't think this development helps it do that as much as I would like.  But that may be living in a fantasy land.


I respect you saying this in this manner...  And, I would say that on paper I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you.  HOWEVER.  I live in the Norman area and I am what I would consider a fairly conscientious citizen and consumer.  Just as an example, I have been wanting to try out Abner's since it opened, but because it's downtown I just haven't done it yet...  Meanwhile, if there is a BWW at Hwy 9/Hwy 77 area, I will eat there weekly, at least.  I guess a lot of it is a logistics issue...  It's ridiculous to say that downtown Norman is any worse than a suburban location with a big parking lot when it comes to the logistics.  But, yet there is still that "feeling" that it's a different animal.

Maybe that's part of the reason why there is such a disconnect when it comes to downtown Norman development.

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## kevinpate

Fwiw, my own preferences for DT Norman fit well with what has been happening already. Abners, Syrup, Bison Wiches, some retail, some professional, some blue collar, an oversll mix that includes a smattering of residential (could use some more)

to me that all fits better than a bww or most any large chain unit.

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## Normanjeff

I have heard that BWW is going in on Hwy 9 West, by Riverwind.  If that's not the case, does anyone know what's going in by that McDonald's?

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## Bunty

> If a Buffalo Wild Wings is built in Norman, I fully expect it to set sales records.


Why is Norman so slow in getting a BWW?  Smaller places in Oklahoma, such as Stillwater and Bartlesville as had one for years.

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## kevinpate

> I have heard that BWW is going in on Hwy 9 West, by Riverwind.  If that's not the case, does anyone know what's going in by that McDonald's?


The BWW is going in over by the HWY 9 and HWY 77 (aka road to Noble) as is a Circle K.

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## kevinpate

> Why is Norman so slow in getting a BWW?...


Not a clue. It's a bit of a mystery. I tend to speculate it's because we're more beef and tater folk than chicken wang folk. Further evidence of that perhaps comes from being a college town that couldn't sustain a Hooters. Not a fan myself, but I have often found that a tad humorous over the years.

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## Instinctive

> I respect you saying this in this manner...  And, I would say that on paper I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you.  HOWEVER.  I live in the Norman area and I am what I would consider a fairly conscientious citizen and consumer.  Just as an example, I have been wanting to try out Abner's since it opened, but because it's downtown I just haven't done it yet...  Meanwhile, if there is a BWW at Hwy 9/Hwy 77 area, I will eat there weekly, at least.  I guess a lot of it is a logistics issue...  It's ridiculous to say that downtown Norman is any worse than a suburban location with a big parking lot when it comes to the logistics.  But, yet there is still that "feeling" that it's a different animal.
> 
> Maybe that's part of the reason why there is such a disconnect when it comes to downtown Norman development.


As a student here for a few years now, the location they've chosen is exponentially better to reach my cohort than Campus Corner or Main Street, both of which can be a huge pain in the ass to park at and walk to or from.  The location they have has a fairly sizable parking lot, it's very close to every major student apartment complex, and it takes less time to get to from Main campus than Main Street does.

If the goal is simply to profit the most possible, I think this is absolutely a good location.  Anyone who lived at Robinson, or north of Robinson, would still find it faster to go to Moore than Campus Corner anyway, and about the same amount of time to Main Street.

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## MikeLucky

BTW, the BWW looks like it's ready to open any day now...  Banners out front say OPENING SOON and HIRING and they have been there for a couple of weeks.

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## iambecoming

> BTW, the BWW looks like it's ready to open any day now...  Banners out front say OPENING SOON and HIRING and they have been there for a couple of weeks.


Opening Sunday is what I was told yesterday.  A friend of mine spoke with the manager.

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## MikeLucky

> Opening Sunday is what I was told yesterday.  A friend of mine spoke with the manager.


Thanks for the info... I can see myself being a regular at this location since I drive by it multiple times every day.

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