# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Tulsa & Suburbs >  Tulsa is outdoing us.

## deltablues

The new ONEOK field, the BOK, The riverwalk (by an actual river, not a creek like us), a Hard Rock Casino/Cafe/Resort, a Toby Keith bar, and on and on and on. Whats going on?

----------


## okcpulse

The new ONEOK field?? How is that outdoing us.  It's a tiny ballpark with "art deco" architecture.  Sure the BOK Center is awesome, but the Riverwalk, while nice, is in Jenks, and we are talking about a 4-inch deep river.

The casino is something OKC cannot help.  It is on Indian lands and Tulsa is surrounded by it.  And a Toby Keith bar?  We already have one.

Not quite outdoing us, but Tulsa is definitely mmoving forward.  OKC has a ton of plans ready to go... Core 2 Shore, Asian District enhancements, Devon Tower, downtown residential developments...

That being said, OKC is not trying to outdo Tulsa, but is working to compete with larger cities.

----------


## dcsooner

OKC needs to fully develop downtown into a vibrant, 24 hour destination with serious retail and other attractions BEFORE moving on to Core to Shore.  DT OKC is not the vibrant hub of other major city downtowns, OKC needs to focus there before trying to enlarge DT's reach. The only component of CtoS that needs to be done is the park which is desperately needed to improve the quality of life in and around DT.

----------


## kevinpate

What would you place in the existing DT area before moving forward with the dreams I see laid out for the Core to Shore area.  Isn't that where a lot of the desired for a 24 hour city will more likely materialize?

----------


## BDP

Honestly, those are actually examples of Tulsa _catching up_ with OKC. I don't want to take anything away from those projects, but OKC already has something that is at least equal to each of those individual projects and already has plans to improve on more, like in the case of the arenas.

It is a good example, however, that no matter how much we improve our city, others will continue to do so as well. I am one who is glad that Tulsa is finally doing things to improve its community assets as I think it helps the state as a whole. However, it shows that as we continue to try and elevate Oklahoma City to the next tier, the tier we are in continues to raise the bar across the nation as well.

----------


## Jesseda

the hard rock casino is on the edge of tulsa, heck might as well add riverwind to the casino/hotels here, as well as remington, firelake, and newcastle casino as well, its cute that people are trying to compare tulsa to okc, its like baby brother looking up to big brother and trying to show him he can be cool

----------


## drumsncode

The renovations to the RiverParks Trail running along Riverside Drive between 11th and 71st (possibly more), are astounding.  If you're a walker, runner, or bicyclist, that trail is pure Heaven.  Experience it once on a good, crisp day, and you'll be hooked for life.

----------


## dcsooner

Kevinpate,
  What I am saying is that the downtown area of OKC has endured busts and booms over the years.  The DT area needs more housing, retail establishments, outside of eating (which are good). Most large cities like here in DC have available options past 9-10PM for people to remain connected downtown. Newsstands, coffee shops, major retailers, grocers, theatres.  OKC has elements of all these things but the layout of the city center is staid and needs a serious update.  The office vacancy rate needs to be absorbed downtown and more neighborhoods need to be built and filled with people. DT is currently a 8am-5Pm place, except maybe on game or concert nights. Almost ALL major cities I have visited have a major department store or two downtown.  More sculptures, more park space, more lighting. Too many storefronts are DARK after 6PM.  OKC needs to develop some character, by encouraging different cultures (Indian, Pakastani, African, etc). to come to and establish a presence in the city), diversity is what makes a city exciting!

----------


## Jesseda

agree with dcsooner, only thing thats has life past 6p.m in downtown okc area is bricktown, i think some major department stores will help bring people to downtown later in the evening, also a well needed grocery store

----------


## metro

Jesseda and dcsooner, you need to get out more then, because there is plenty more to downtown than the overhyped "Bricktown."  I've lived, owned property and worked in Downtown OKC for 3 years now and there is plenty going on after 5pm. Do we need more, absolutely. Automobile Alley has activity at night with IAO gallery, CD Warehouse, Coffee Slingers, the Bike Shops (have Wed. night bike rides), Iguana Lounge, Sara Sara, Red Prime, OhSoBlush, Cricket Wireless, and others being added. MidTown/Plaza Court area has activity at night, so does the arts district, downtown library, and CBD hotels. Deep Deuce is coming alive at night with several restaurants now and Sage opening up any day. Get out and enjoy the other parts of our downtown please!

----------


## Jesseda

i do get out, i just dont like walking arounda dark downtown with very little people around, kinda spooky, and a little bit dangerous. But for you metro, I will go look around.

----------


## OKCMallen

> Jesseda and dcsooner, you need to get out more then, because there is plenty more to downtown than the overhyped "Bricktown."  I've lived, owned property and worked in Downtown OKC for 3 years now and there is plenty going on after 5pm. Do we need more, absolutely. Automobile Alley has activity at night with IAO gallery, CD Warehouse, Coffee Slingers, the Bike Shops (have Wed. night bike rides), Iguana Lounge, Sara Sara, Red Prime, OhSoBlush, Cricket Wireless, and others being added. MidTown/Plaza Court area has activity at night, so does the arts district, downtown library, and CBD hotels. Deep Deuce is coming alive at night with several restaurants now and Sage opening up any day. Get out and enjoy the other parts of our downtown please!


Metro has a point.  Maybe the CBD will just never be the place to hang out...which is fine if we use and enjoy Midtown, the Deuce, etc...

----------


## BDP

I agree. It's not that unusual for a business or financial district to go dark at night. As long as there are other vibrant districts downtown for night life, then I don't think it's much of a problem. And with Bricktown and the other emerging districts that Metro pointed out, there is actually quite a bit to do downtown at night and it seems to be getting better every year, which should continue as residency begins to increase as well.

----------


## okcpulse

I for one can lend testimony to downtown Houston in that it has to be one of the largest cities with a quiet downtown at night.  After Video Games live in downtown Houston's PAC, it was a tad creepy walking back to the parking garage.

----------


## krisb

The Ford Center will be just as nice as the BOK center once the renovations are complete. Also, Core to Shore is an attempt to upgrade and expand the livable areas of downtown to encourage growth in housing, retail, and all of those things. The park brings new quality of life, which will in turn, bring more people and investment downtown.

----------


## kevinpate

dcsooner,  just a ditto on metro's notes.  

I don't live downtown, or even in town, and I don't spend many evenings anywhere in OKC.  However, of his excellent suggestion list (thansk for that metro), the only one that was a "wait, so I know about this" moment was OhsoBlush.  The rest I've either visited or heard good things about from others who have.  

Is the absolute heart of the central business district quiet?  Definitely post 6 pm, but in my admittedly limited experience, that's really not so unusual.  Yet between the arts area, high brow and not so high brow, B-town, Auto Alley, Deep Deuce, improvements at the river for young and not so young alike, there are many offerings already in play if one has the proximity, time and inclination to partake to his/her advantage.

Seeing folks making plans for more mini venues and not so mini venues to the south seems a more natural progression at this point than it did the first time or three I heard of a large park or a mongo ferris wheel down that way.

----------


## Karried

When they get a professional football team, then they will have us beat ....      Go OKC Thunder!

----------


## nik4411

Can someone clear up what it is that people refer to as midtown in OKC? I hear/see it used but am unsure what area it is describing.

----------


## metro

nik, I refer to MidTown as a much broader area than what most people "think" of MidTown. It basically encompasses NW 4th North to NW 23rd and from Classen to Broadway. The heart of MidTown is the Plaza Court area right by St. Anthony's hospital at 10th and Walker. If you haven't been down to the area in a year or more, you really need to get down there. I imagine after the economy picks up again, we'll have what's called "Walker Ave. District". Just my two cents...but hey I'm no Kelly Ogle.

----------


## nik4411

Cool, thanks for the reply metro. Yes I know what area you are talking about, now I know what to picture when people speak of Midtown OKC.

----------


## Platemaker

> nik, I refer to MidTown as a much broader area than what most people "think" of MidTown. It basically encompasses NW 4th North to NW 23rd and from Classen to Broadway. The heart of MidTown is the Plaza Court area right by St. Anthony's hospital at 10th and Walker. If you haven't been down to the area in a year or more, you really need to get down there. I imagine after the economy picks up again, we'll have what's called "Walker Ave. District". Just my two cents...but hey I'm no Kelly Ogle.



I agree with your boundaries.... but "Walker Ave. District" c'mon metro if you had your way ever other block would be a new district... just like SOSA...grasping.

Now are we all sure the T in Midtown is capitalized  :Wink:

----------


## jbrown84

> Now are we all sure the T in Midtown is capitalized


No.  Only metro does that.





> Metro has a point.  Maybe the CBD will just never be the place to hang out...which is fine if we use and enjoy Midtown, the Deuce, etc...


Yeah I think we will see it improve some in the CBD, because of the hotel presence.  A 24-hour drug store and a 24-hour restaurant would be nice.  But yeah, every city has a business district that largely closes down after 6.  The districts all around downtown are growing, some at different stages than others.


As far as the Tulsa comparison goes, I agree this is more of a matter of them catching up.  We are already starting renovations on our arena.  As is, it is definitely not as good a venue as BOK, but we built it along with a ballpark, a new Civic Center, a new library, a canal, and river dams, so I'd say we got more bang for our buck in the progress and momentum department.

Riverwalk is just another lifestyle center.  Nothing to really get excited about.

The casino is not really that much nicer than our suburban casinos (FireLake and Riverwind, I mean).  I don't think the Hard Rock brand is that special.  Kinda played out.

I'm glad they are finally making some improvements, and I would never want us to rest on our laurels, but look at all that's happening:

-new NBA team is extremely successful
-Ford Center renovations start next month
-American Indian Cultural Center
-Oklahoma River has been catapulted to international status as a rowing venue, leading to a US Rowing center and a new boathouse row.
-Film Row catching on
-massive influx of urban housing
-Oklahoma City Museum of Art in less than 10 years has become a major regional presence 
-Devon Tower
-Myriad Gardens improvements
-revival along 23rd Street in Uptown, with the Tower Theatre undergoing restoration
-Core to Shore (including a new convention center, a new central park, and more)
-Academy of Contemporary Music opening in Bricktown
-Classen Curve


Things seem a little stagnant right now because of the economy, but I guarantee you things are stalling and being postponed everywhere, including Tulsa.

----------


## kevinpate

> "Walker Ave. District"

Can we subdivide it further and have NoWalk, WeWalk SoWalk and EWok, the cutesy but somewhat rougher side of the district, where they rarely shave and make liberal use of the force to bring about change.

----------


## metro

> I agree with your boundaries.... but "Walker Ave. District" c'mon metro if you had your way ever other block would be a new district... just like SOSA...grasping.
> 
> Now are we all sure the T in Midtown is capitalized


No, I wouldn't have it that way, but mark my words, within 10 years there will be "Walker Ave District" as a subdistrict within MidTown. Also, if you go to the actual MidTown association website, they have several "districts" within MidTown. I would call them subdistricts, but hey sorry if you have a problem with the other districts, maybe you should take it up with the actual association in charge of MidTown.  http://www.midtownokc.com/

Sorry, I can't take the credit for MidTown (capitalized T), as Banta, MidTown Renaissance and others were doing that far before I. 

http://www.midtownrenaissance.com/

----------


## OKCMallen

The only area Tulsa is outdoing us is Casinos directly on the borders of and withint their city limits.

----------


## deltablues

No offense but the Ford center wont ever be as astonishing as the BOK. Its amazing. And the new ONEOK Field is only a smiggen smaller than the brick. The music scene in Tulsa has us beat as well...They have a "scene". and we arent that much larger than Tulsa. We arent a city the size of dallas we are a city (roughly the same size as Tulsa, Memphis, etc.) And i could see the NFL in Tulsa before us. 

Heres why....

Think of memphis and nashville (similar in size, one is slightly larger). One city isnt large enough to support both a NFL and NBA Team. So they put a NBA team in Memphis and a NFL team in Nashville. Tulsa also has lots of traffic from the Fayetteville, Bentonville, Siloam Springs area...

----------


## Decious

You're trying to force this.  We just don't agree with you.  Some people think that the BOKcenter is ugly.  I don't, but some people do.  It's all personal preference.

As far as a music scene...I'm a musician.  I think that Tulsa has a respectable music vibe, but I wouldn't trade it for the Academy of Contemporary Music that's beginning classes it Bricktown later this fall.  Some people would, I don't.

Really?  Come on now.  You first two posts have been:

1. Tulsa is outdoing "us".

2.  Uh-huh.

----------


## OKCMallen

> No offense but the Ford center wont ever be as astonishing as the BOK. Its amazing. And the new ONEOK Field is only a smiggen smaller than the brick. The music scene in Tulsa has us beat as well...They have a "scene". and we arent that much larger than Tulsa. We arent a city the size of dallas we are a city (roughly the same size as Tulsa, Memphis, etc.) And i could see the NFL in Tulsa before us. 
> 
> Heres why....
> 
> Think of memphis and nashville (similar in size, one is slightly larger). One city isnt large enough to support both a NFL and NBA Team. So they put a NBA team in Memphis and a NFL team in Nashville. Tulsa also has lots of traffic from the Fayetteville, Bentonville, Siloam Springs area...


The BOK is better looking from the outside.  The interiors will be comparable after our renovations.

ONEOK Field - who cares.  It's smaller.  It doesn't have a AAA ball club.  Yippie skippee
Music- Their music scene is better.  We'll never have a Cain's.  You can't artificially create that.

----------


## warreng88

> No offense but the Ford center wont ever be as astonishing as the BOK. Its amazing. And the new ONEOK Field is only a smiggen smaller than the brick. The music scene in Tulsa has us beat as well...They have a "scene". and we arent that much larger than Tulsa. We arent a city the size of dallas we are a city (roughly the same size as Tulsa, Memphis, etc.) And i could see the NFL in Tulsa before us.


The argument that Tulsa is outdoing us is laughable to be honest. Like some posters have said, they are catching up. 

They are building a baseball stadium? We had one in 1997, they will have one in 2010 (13 years later.) The Bricktown Ballpark's capacity is 13,066. ONEOK Field's capacity is going to be 6,200. That is a lot smaller than a smiggen. It is actually less than half. 

I think the BOK Center is very nice looking but once the FC is renovated, it will look amazing. Consider they cost about the same to build and we had ours seven years ago. Oh and ours houses an NBA team.

They are doing river improvements? Again, started those ten years ago and had the Olympic Trials here.

Toby Keith Bar and Grill.... Uh... Original one is in Bricktown.

I don't think we will see an NFL team in Oklahoma for at least 20 years. I think there is too much of a focus on college football for people to shell out thousands for season tickets to college and pro football. The Thunder will do fine because there is only 19,000 in the venue at any given point in time as opposed to 80,000-100,000.

----------


## Jesseda

wow warreng88 well said and played out

----------


## BDP

You lost me at "astonishing".

That's reaching, as are many of the comparisons. I have nothing against Tulsa, but it is these kind of proclamations, usually made by Tulsans, that really show how out of touch that community can be. I'm not saying that Oklahoma City is some world class city by any standard, but Tulsa is not even close to out doing it in terms of public assets or living standards.

I have spent more time in Tulsa the last year than in any other year of my life and I have found that many of its show pieces have what, objectively, could only be considered at least an equivalent in Oklahoma City and there definitely seems to be more progress in Oklahoma City within its emerging districts. The only way one can claim that Tulsa is outdoing Oklahoma City as a whole is to 1) have a strong, already established adoration for Tulsa (which is perfectly fine and understandable) and 2) have a limited perspective on Oklahoma City and other cities.

Even the touring music scene comparison is a little specious. Many bands that play at Cain's have and will play in Oklahoma City. Yes, Oklahoma City lacks a centerpiece to its venue inventory and Cain's has one of the best reputations in the country, but bands do play here, it's just spread out over several venues across the metro (personally, I would trade it for Cain's, but that doesn't mean OKC is void of attracting the same talent at different times). In fact, if you're more into up and coming bands on tour, some of Oklahoma City's venues do a great job of booking in that respect.

In the end, you have to really drill down to specific niches to proclaim one city is outdoing the other in certain aspects and in most cases it comes down to personal taste and familiarity. I mean what do _you_ like? The Paseo or The Blue Dome, Western or Peoria, Bricktown or the Riverwalk, MidTown or Cherry Street, The Brick/Ford or OneOK/BOK, blah blah blah, etc. etc. Weighing these things against each other becomes even more ridiculous when you begin to compare them to other cities.

Honestly, the only thing that Tulsa indisputably does better than Oklahoma City is hubris.

----------


## OKCMallen

> You lost me at "astonishing".
> 
> That's reaching, as are many of the comparisons. I have nothing against Tulsa, but it is these kind of proclamations, usually made by Tulsans, that really show how out of touch that community can be. I'm not saying that Oklahoma City is some world class city by any standard, but Tulsa is not even close to out doing it in terms of public assets or living standards.
> 
> I have spent more time in Tulsa the last year than in any other year of my life and I have found that many of its show pieces have what, objectively, could only be considered at least an equivalent in Oklahoma City and there definitely seems to be more progress in Oklahoma City within its emerging districts. The only way one can claim that Tulsa is outdoing Oklahoma City as a whole is to 1) have a strong, already established adoration for Tulsa (which is perfectly fine and understandable) and 2) have a limited perspective on Oklahoma City and other cities.
> 
> Even the touring music scene comparison is a little specious. *Many bands that play at Cain's have and will play in Oklahoma City.* Yes, Oklahoma City lacks a centerpiece to its venue inventory and Cain's has one of the best reputations in the country, but bands do play here, it's just spread out over several venues across the metro (personally, I would trade it for Cain's, but that doesn't mean OKC is void of attracting the same talent at different times). In fact, if you're more into up and coming bands on tour, some of Oklahoma City's venues do a great job of booking in that respect.
> 
> In the end, you have to really drill down to specific niches to proclaim one city is outdoing the other in certain aspects and in most cases it comes down to personal taste and familiarity. I mean what do _you_ like? The Paseo or The Blue Dome, Western or Peoria, Bricktown or the Riverwalk, MidTown or Cherry Street, The Brick/Ford or OneOK/BOK, blah blah blah, etc. etc. Weighing these things against each other becomes even more ridiculous when you begin to compare them to other cities.
> ...


Untrue.  But other than that, awesome post.  We're stroking Tulsa lately, and have been for a decade.  Hell, they even have traffic congestion.  Try going up or down Memorial anywhere from 11th to 91st in the middle of the day (non rush hour) and see how much you like it.  That's besides the point, but still, it baffles the mind when Tulsans say how much better their quality of life is. 

To say Tulsa is outdoing us is silly.  It's harder to increase momentum when you already have it.  E.g.- it's easier to go from 0-30mph REALLY quickly than it is to go from 60-90mph really quickly.  Don't mistake their higher acceleration right now as going faster overall.  We're still operating at a different level.

----------


## BDP

Actually it's not untrue. I have seen many bands come here to the Conservatory, the Bricktown Event Center, Diamond Ballroom, Opolis, the old Green Door and then come back and go to Cains and people are like "they get all the great bands". So, I ask, "did you see them when they came to Oklahoma City/Norman two years ago", and many say they never even knew they came here. That's what reputation does for a venue. And when bands go to venues and clubs here that don't go to Cain's or Tulsa, they get no credit for it.

I just looked at Cain's calendar and there are plenty of bands on it that have played in Oklahoma City or Norman at some point.

----------


## OKCMallen

BDP, dude, you're wrong.  Seriously.  I've certainly never seen a moe. or Drive-by Truckers show here.  Yonder Mountain String Band plays there with regularity.  Etc etc.

The point is not "plenty" of bands that have played here and Cain's.  The point is having the bands that DON'T play OKC and DO play Tulsa select OKC to play.  Having OU so close, you'd think it would be a no-brainer, but we just don't do it.

Hell, this year's Norman Music Festival is better than any one event OKC has.

----------


## BDP

Dude, the Drive-By Truckers have played in OKC. I know for a fact they have played VZDs multiple times. That's exactly what I am talking about.

And, obviously, we can cherry pick bands that are playing there and not playing here at a given point. And we can do it for Oklahoma City, too. That's the point. For example, none of the touring bands currently listed on Pollstar as booked for the Conservatory or the Opolis have stops scheduled in Tulsa. TV on the Radio is coming here and not Tulsa. Pato Banton just played here and not in Tulsa, etc. etc.. There's PLENTY of that both ways. 

As for Norman, that was also my point. Lost of bands play Opolis that don't play Tulsa and then a few years later they'll play Tulsa and not here. Tulsa's music "scene" (although this really isn't about their scene) rides a lot on Cain's reputation and the advantage it has of being THE place to play in the area. The Oklahoma City metro sees its fair share of shows, but it doesn't have one single venue as its centerpiece and none with the reputation of Cain's. Shows take place at several venues across town and in Norman. I don't know why the Norman Music Festival doesn't count, especially since it is featuring bands that actually ARE part of the scene, not just ones brought in on tour.

I am in no way challenging Cain's position as the top touring venue of its size in the state. And nothing else competes with it on a per venue basis in terms of the shows booked. However, when comparing the two markets AS A WHOLE, they are much closer than most give credit. The funny thing is that, as your example pointed out, when bands play here people write it off or don't even notice (they certainly never seem to remember it when this topic comes up), but when they play at Cain's people go "why don't they play here", even though they often _already have._ So, YES, it _is_ true. Many bands that have and will play at Cain's have and will play in the Oklahoma City metro.

----------


## OKCMallen

> Dude, the Drive-By Truckers have played in OKC. I know for a fact they have played VZDs multiple times. That's exactly what I am talking about.
> 
> And, obviously, we can cherry pick bands that are playing there and not playing here at a given point. And we can do it for Oklahoma City, too. That's the point. For example, none of the touring bands currently listed on Pollstar as booked for the Conservatory or the Opolis have stops scheduled in Tulsa. TV on the Radio is coming here and not Tulsa. Pato Banton just played here and not in Tulsa, etc. etc.. There's PLENTY of that both ways. 
> 
> As for Norman, that was also my point. Lost of bands play Opolis that don't play Tulsa and then a few years later they'll play Tulsa and not here. Tulsa's music "scene" (although this really isn't about their scene) rides a lot on Cain's reputation and the advantage it has of being THE place to play in the area. The Oklahoma City metro sees its fair share of shows, but it doesn't have one single venue as its centerpiece and none with the reputation of Cain's. Shows take place at several venues across town and in Norman. I don't know why the Norman Music Festival doesn't count, especially since it is featuring bands that actually ARE part of the scene, not just ones brought in on tour.
> 
> I am in no way challenging Cain's position as the top touring venue of its size in the state. And nothing else competes with it on a per venue basis in terms of the shows booked. However, when comparing the two markets AS A WHOLE, they are much closer than most give credit. The funny thing is that, as your example pointed out, when bands play here people write it off or don't even notice (they certainly never seem to remember it when this topic comes up), but when they play at Cain's people go "why don't they play here", even though they often _already have._


They don't now that they're big, do they?  They CHOOSE TULSA.   :Bright Idea:  

Your idea that because a band played here at one point in the past holds no water because the point is TULSA CONSISTENTLY PULLS THEM.  Great, the Hold Steady once played in Norman.  Now if they consistently choose to play in Tulsa instead of anywhere in or around OKC for the next 5 years, then I guess we're equal to Tulsa.  Your point makes zero logical sense.

----------


## BDP

I said "Many bands that play at Cain's have and will play in Oklahoma City. "

You said "untrue".

I have proven it to be true, while also showing that bands that play here often don't play there.

Now, if you missed the bands when they did play here or didn't even know about them then, that doesn't change the facts. It's not about logic, it's simple fact. 




> Your idea that because a band played here at one point in the past holds no water


What do you mean? That's exactly what we were discussing. I'm sorry if you feel like some bands you like shun Oklahoma City now. I'm sorry if you didn't go to the shows when they played in Oklahoma City. But it doesn't change the fact that they _did_ play here and there are plenty of examples of bands that play here that don't play there. You may not know about them (yet), but it does happen very often.

If anything, your  :Bright Idea:  idea that it doesn't count until you or a bunch of other people like them is what doesn't hold water, because it's irrelevant to the statement I made about bands that play there have played here, which you called untrue. I guess next time I will ask _you_ which bands count.

----------


## deltablues

No arguments to the NFL theory i see.

----------


## jbrown84

> No arguments to the NFL theory i see.


Your argument there is valid.  But I agree with the poster who said NFL isn't likely to come to any Oklahoma city in the next 20 years.

----------


## okcpulse

> They don't now that they're big, do they?  They CHOOSE TULSA.   
> 
> Your idea that because a band played here at one point in the past holds no water because the point is TULSA CONSISTENTLY PULLS THEM.  Great, the Hold Steady once played in Norman.  Now if they consistently choose to play in Tulsa instead of anywhere in or around OKC for the next 5 years, then I guess we're equal to Tulsa.  Your point makes zero logical sense.


Bands don't CHOOSE where they play.  They play where they are booked.  They play where bookings are available.  Unless it's something big like SXSW or some giant music festival, bands play where they are booked.

Bands don't have time to sit down and play spin the bottle on some map.

----------


## dismayed

So just this week over the next seven days Tulsa has Deathcab for Cutie, All American Rejects, Papa Roach, Avenged Sevenfold, Shiny Toy Guns, and Chicago playing.  Not at one big festival or anything, they're all just there at various concerts.  Those are all huge names.

Tulsa is doing very well in the concerts department.

----------


## kevinpate

Chicago is considered huge again?  Isn't Frontier City one of their regular stops?

----------


## Oil Capital

> No arguments to the NFL theory i see.


Probably because everyone thought the idea of Tulsa getting an NFL team in the next, oh, say, 50 years is so laughable it's not worth responding to.  The key difference in your Nashville/Memphis comparison being that either of them is large enough for either NFL or NBA.  Perhaps it would be a stretch to have both in either of those cities.  

Where the comparison fails is when you try to apply it to Tulsa/OKC.  OKC is large enough for the NBA.  It's fair to question whether it could presently support both NBA and NFL.  Tulsa, however, is not large enough for either.

The comparison fails further in that Memphis and Nashville are of comparable size and relative dominance of their state.  The same cannot be said of OKC/Tulsa.  OKC is substantially larger, and growing faster and has much greater dominance of the state.  Tulsa is increasingly becoming a secondary city within Oklahoma, playing on the same stage with the Springfields and Wichitas.

----------


## Oil Capital

> .
> 
> Tulsa is doing very well in the concerts department.


I don't think any said otherwise.

----------


## sgt. pepper

> Deathcab for Cutie, Papa Roach, Avenged Sevenfold, Shiny Toy Guns


i think huge is over stating it a bit hugely

----------


## RealJimbo

Just go to the area in Tulsa where they had once planned to develop a "bricktown".  Still only a Spagetti Warehouse, Brady Theater and Cain's Ballroom.  In between these venues is kind of scary at night.  They'd like to think they are far ahead of OKC and in some ways, they ARE, culturally.  Consider that big oil money built Tulsa and those old oil barons brought the best of everything into Tulsa including architecture, museums, art, etc.  Their Performing Arts Center has long attracted only the best in opera, ballet and pop artists.

But all you have to do to make a T-Towner green around the eyes is to mention MAPS or specifically Brick Town.

----------


## krisb

Anyone looked at the artists who have played at the Zoo Amphitheater over the past few years. Now that's big time...Snow Patrol in '07 and Sheryl Crow last year. Chicago and Earth, Wind, and Fire are coming in August (they're not big time anymore, but Tulsa isn't special in getting them). Not to mention Styx, Alan Jackson, Cross-canadian Ragweed, Korn, Def Leppard, Willie Nelson, The Flaming Lips, etc.

----------


## Matt

Going up to Tulsa to see Sonic Youth at Cain's this Thursday.

Was looking through the entertainment section of the paper the other day and took note of how many good/big shows were gonna be up there as opposed to down here.  Between Cain's, the Brady Theatre, and the BOK Center, Tulsa is putting us to shame when it comes to shows this summer.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

> Going up to Tulsa to see Sonic Youth at Cain's this Thursday.
> 
> Was looking through the entertainment section of the paper the other day and took note of how many good/big shows were gonna be up there as opposed to down here.  Between Cain's, the Brady Theatre, *and the BOK Center*, Tulsa is putting us to shame when it comes to shows this summer.


Do we have to keep reminding people that nobody is coming to the Ford Center because of the renovations.  Do you not realize that as soon as the renovations are over before the start of NBA play that big names are scheduled for the Ford Center?  I, for one, am ready to see Kings of Leon in concert at the Ford Center!

----------


## RealJimbo

Give me the smaller venues like Cains in Tulsa and UCO Jazz Lab, Blue Door, Conservatory, even the Wormy Dog and Biting Sow in OKC.  I get absolutely nothing but frustrated by trying to go to a concert at a venue so big you can't see the artist(s) unless they have a big screen and it is impossible to engineer the sound in a large venue to faithfully represent what you came to hear.  In that arena, I believe we have Tulsa beat.  Cain's, Brady, what else?

----------


## drumsncode

Hopefully the link below will work.  It looks like Heaven just got a little nicer.

Riverside Restaurateur - New Blue Rose set to bloom by mid-winter - News - City, State, County, Education - Urban Tulsa Weekly

Oh how I love Riverparks in Tulsa!  They are going to do a restaurant that will be even better than the River's Edge that closed a while back.  It's going to be to-die-for.

----------


## Oil Capital

> Hopefully the link below will work.  It looks like Heaven just got a little nicer.
> 
> Riverside Restaurateur - New Blue Rose set to bloom by mid-winter - News - City, State, County, Education - Urban Tulsa Weekly
> 
> Oh how I love Riverparks in Tulsa!  They are going to do a restaurant that will be even better than the River's Edge that closed a while back.  It's going to be to-die-for.


It doesn't take much to be better than the River's Edge.  Worst food ever.

----------


## drumsncode

> It doesn't take much to be better than the River's Edge.  Worst food ever.


Let me clarify.  I was really talking about the total atmosphere of that little area on 19th and Riverside.  The River's Edge had fantastic atmosphere, but yeah, lousy food.

The new place sounds architecturally brilliant, so it sounds like a true leap forward.  

I contrast this with the Hefner Trail, which for me, only has one restaurant that has the proper trail atmosphere, which is Louie's on the Lake.  The other restaurants are too far away and too "uppity".  If I'm riding the trail on a bike, I need to be able to just park my bike in a rack and eat outside, soaking up all the scenery.  For doing that, there is no better trail than River Parks.

The Hefner Trail needs a massive makeover, with some big trees and such.  The whole trail feels cold and impersonal.  Part of this is just the landscape itself, but you can really feel the difference between it and the one in Tulsa.

----------


## Matt

> Do we have to keep reminding people that nobody is coming to the Ford Center because of the renovations.  Do you not realize that as soon as the renovations are over before the start of NBA play that big names are scheduled for the Ford Center?  I, for one, am ready to see Kings of Leon in concert at the Ford Center!


Yes, I do realize that, which is why I mentioned two other venues along with it.  Take the BOK Center out of the equation and Tulsa is still mopping the floor with OKC when it comes to shows.

----------


## bombermwc

How many times do we have to go through the mine and yours arena crap? BOKC is experiencing the same flash the Ford Center had when it opened. And now that we have a higher level permanent tenent, there aren't as many dates open....give me the Thunder over a concert any day. Plus...duh...FC is closed for renovations until the fall. geez.

----------


## Jesseda

tulsa people are funny i mean common how can we take that city serious when the only way in on a major road is a toll road, i mean if you want to go to kansas city, you are mainly forced to go through tulsa and pay, unless you want to take a longer route, same with saint louis..Sad that there is no realy interstate or direct way to tulsa thats not a toll

----------


## RealJimbo

If Tulsa could ever lose its tendency to look down its nose at its poor relations in OKC, it would be a much better place to visit.  As it is now, I balk at paying the turnpike toll to go visit a place that would rather I'd not!

----------


## Matt

Awesome show at Cain's the other night.  Awesome band, awesome venue.  Best place to see live music in the state, bar none.

Stopped at QT on the way back and that was awesome, too.

Thanks, Tulsa!

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

> No offense but the Ford center wont ever be as astonishing as the BOK. Its amazing. And the new ONEOK Field is only a smiggen smaller than the brick. The music scene in Tulsa has us beat as well...They have a "scene". and we arent that much larger than Tulsa. We arent a city the size of dallas we are a city (roughly the same size as Tulsa, Memphis, etc.) And i could see the NFL in Tulsa before us. 
> 
> Heres why....
> 
> Think of memphis and nashville (similar in size, one is slightly larger). One city isnt large enough to support both a NFL and NBA Team. So they put a NBA team in Memphis and a NFL team in Nashville. Tulsa also has lots of traffic from the Fayetteville, Bentonville, Siloam Springs area...





> No offense but the Ford center wont ever be as astonishing as the BOK. Its amazing.


  Link?

Until the ford center opens up, you can't make a stupid comment like that.  




> We arent a city the size of dallas we are a city (roughly the same size as Tulsa, Memphis, etc.) And i could see the NFL in Tulsa before us.


roughly the same size as tulsa?? Our metropolitan area has around 350,000 more people.  That is a pretty damn big difference.  And on the Whole NFL topic, neither Tulsa or OKC will ever get a team.  Way to many cities ahead of us in line, and i am sure that the NFL is not going to want to expand to 40 or so teams.




> And the new ONEOK Field is only a smiggen smaller than the brick.


  As pointed out earlier, it is barely half the size of the brick. that is alot bigger than just a smiggen.


So please deltablues, just stfu.  You are starting to make me think you are just a tulsan trying to disguise yourself as someone from OKC.

----------


## evh5150

> tulsa people are funny i mean common how can we take that city serious when the only way in on a major road is a toll road, i mean if you want to go to kansas city, you are mainly forced to go through tulsa and pay, unless you want to take a longer route, same with saint louis..Sad that there is no realy interstate or direct way to tulsa thats not a toll


im surprised that oklahoma's most traveled road isnt tolled: I-35 south to texas state line.

there was talk a few years back about making h.e. bailey a free road, but that hasnt happened.

----------


## bombermwc

It hasn't happened because the folks that make money off the tolls have a good thing going. Not to mention the fact that we couldnt' afford NOT to have them tolled. ODOT is still running on a 1980's budget and until we get over our dumb ideas that we dont' want to pay more taxes, then we won't get any better. If we could get that 5cent gas tax passed, we could actually have good roads...toll free. But our idiot folks can't see that and just see "new tax" and run. Then they piss and moan about the roads. 

Can't have the cake and eat it folks.

And Delta, I agree with soonerfan....you may have opinions, but they lack the facts to back them up.

----------


## bluedogok

In some other parts of the world ALL highways are toll roads. "Free" highways are not an inalienable right, the toll road model is what is going to pay for new roads, the writing is on the wall. I don't have an issue with that, what I do have an issue with is putting tolls on existing roads that were paid for with gas taxes. Let the traditional funding model pay to maintain and/or expand those and let new roads be built with tolls.

----------


## okcpulse

> Awesome show at Cain's the other night.  Awesome band, awesome venue.  Best place to see live music in the state, bar none.
> 
> Stopped at QT on the way back and that was awesome, too.
> 
> Thanks, Tulsa!


What makes Cain's awesome?  Is it the structure, the service, the amenities... you guys keep droning on about music venues and how awesome they are without ever going into concrete detail.  To me, a kick-ass venue is an outdoor amphitheater.  

Awesome bands go to OKC as well.  Where's the magic in this OKC vs. Tulsa mambajahamba?

The only thing better about QT are larger restrooms.  I'm happy with Circle K and 7-Eleven.  I hate public restrooms regardless, in any city and any state.  Too many guys do NOT know how to aim and stream.

----------


## dmoor82

I just saw a commercial for kwtv9 here in OKC! that talked about this and they said OKC has the Thunder but Tulsa is getting better acts! so it will be on at 4-5or 10 newscast, I dont know! sorry, anybody else see this?I didnt catch what time they said!

----------


## dmoor82

> I just saw a commercial for kwtv9 here in OKC! that talked about this and they said OKC has the Thunder but Tulsa is getting better acts! so it will be on at 4-5or 10 newscast, I dont know! sorry, anybody else see this?I didnt catch what time they said!


Yeah I just seen the bit on KWTV9 and they talked to mayor Mick and were asking why Tulsa is getting some new things and not OKC?We should be happy for Tulsa for having nice new things to attract tax revenue! as for me I'll take the Thunder,and the Devon tower,and the newly announced US olympic rowing training facility over a Hard Rock casino or a Dave and Busters and good concerts,and poss. the WNBA,all these pale in comparison to what OKC has got over the past few years,but it is Tulsa's time to shine!!!Go T-Town :Congrats:

----------


## fromdust

> It hasn't happened because the folks that make money off the tolls have a good thing going. Not to mention the fact that we couldnt' afford NOT to have them tolled. ODOT is still running on a 1980's budget and until we get over our dumb ideas that we dont' want to pay more taxes, then we won't get any better. If we could get that 5cent gas tax passed, we could actually have good roads...toll free. But our idiot folks can't see that and just see "new tax" and run. Then they piss and moan about the roads. 
> 
> Can't have the cake and eat it folks.


ny has some of the highest taxes on gas Gasoline tax information - New York City Gas Prices and they have crap roads and a ton of toll. doubt we would have free roads, or nice for that matter.

----------


## Laramie

*Tulsans have pride and the competitiveness (OKC vs. Tulsa) will only hasten both cities' growth!*

----------


## okcpulse

> No offense but the Ford center wont ever be as astonishing as the BOK. Its amazing.


To each his/her own.  I am personally not impressed by the BOK.  It's a nice arena, but I prefer AA Center in Dallas.  Now that's a swank arena.  When the Ford Center's remodel is complete, it will be much nicer.  But as of now... bleh.




> And the new ONEOK Field is only a smiggen smaller than the brick.


Try almost half the size.  The seating capacity at ONEOK is what... 7,000?  Compared to the Brick's 13,000?  I find it interesting that of all the trashing Tulsans do about OKC, they conveniently forget about the Brick, which has been and always will be a very nice ballpark.




> The music scene in Tulsa has us beat as well...They have a "scene".


Okay, I'll give you that, but many, many great artists come from and play in OKC.  You've just described a dynamic attribute.  OKC's music scene has gotten better since the 1990's, and jsut keeps improving.  Support your local music scene, assuming you're from OKC.




> and we arent that much larger than Tulsa. We arent a city the size of dallas we are a city (roughly the same size as Tulsa, Memphis, etc.)


551,000 in OKC, 385,000 in Tulsa.  The gap just keeps getting bigger.  And forget the land area argument because it doesn't stand.  Over 95% of that 551,000 lives in a contiguous area roughly 240 sq. miles, hence, the urban core of OKC.

1,206,142 in the OKC MSA and 916,079 in the Tulsa MSA.  That's nearly 300,000 people.




> And i could see the NFL in Tulsa before us. 
> 
> Heres why....
> 
> Think of memphis and nashville (similar in size, one is slightly larger). One city isnt large enough to support both a NFL and NBA Team. So they put a NBA team in Memphis and a NFL team in Nashville. Tulsa also has lots of traffic from the Fayetteville, Bentonville, Siloam Springs area...


The NFL?  Doubtful.  Heck, the NFL is doubtful in OKC.  The NFL requires hefty markets to function, with the exception of Green Bay, which is a city-owned team.

----------


## Matt

> What makes Cain's awesome?  Is it the structure, the service, the amenities... you guys keep droning on about music venues and how awesome they are without ever going into concrete detail.


Great sound, great history, great floor, great services, sure.  All that.  And you can buy a full six-pack of beer, if you want.  And it attracts some of the best acts in music today, that likely wouldn't even come to this state if it wasn't for Cain's.  To me, that's the best part of all.

EDIT:

Just saw this, and I think it's worth posting:

Cain's ranked #45 in the world for 2009 Mid-Year Ticket Sales

Not too shabby!




> To me, a kick-ass venue is an outdoor amphitheater.


Yep, I like outdoor venues too, but they're only as good as the weather.




> The only thing better about QT are larger restrooms.


False.

----------


## In_Tulsa

The new tower in OKC will be nice and the biggest in the state. But a little birdy told me about something bigger is coming out of the ground in Downtown Tulsa stay tuned!!

Hint: Local company but not local in Tulsa Yet?????

----------


## dmoor82

> The new tower in OKC will be nice and the biggest in the state. But a little birdy told me about something bigger is coming out of the ground in Downtown Tulsa stay tuned!!
> 
> Hint: Local company but not local in Tulsa Yet?????


Please do tell!!!!

----------


## In_Tulsa

That's all I can say now but this will be GREAT for Oklahoma!!!

----------


## jbrown84

I can't imagine what that would be...

----------


## dmoor82

> That's all I can say now but this will be GREAT for Oklahoma!!!


Will it cost more than the Devon tower? will it be taller? come on, ya cant leave us hangin!!!!!

----------


## progressiveboy

I noticed Wayne Greene, TW editor wrote a short article today finding it rather amusing that OKC is jealous of Tulsa according to KWTV OKC news station complaining that Tulsa is getting all the cool stuff before OKC does. I do notice that Tulsa has Saks, Restoration Hardware, Dave & Busters, and now their "so called" HRC? In addition, T-town has Steve Madden, Oakley, Fossil store that are not found in OKC. It does seem that Tulsa has a better shopping selection than OKC. Even Tulsa has a WF which OKC doesn't, however, strong rumors are persistent that OKC may soon have one. Do you think that OKC is suffering from "capital envy"??

----------


## okcpulse

> I noticed Wayne Greene, TW editor wrote a short article today finding it rather amusing that OKC is jealous of Tulsa according to KWTV OKC news station complaining that Tulsa is getting all the cool stuff before OKC does. I do notice that Tulsa has Saks, Restoration Hardware, Dave & Busters, and now their "so called" HRC? In addition, T-town has Steve Madden, Oakley, Fossil store that are not found in OKC. It does seem that Tulsa has a better shopping selection than OKC. Even Tulsa has a WF which OKC doesn't, however, strong rumors are persistent that OKC may soon have one. Do you think that OKC is suffering from "capital envy"??


I think both cities suffer from envy.  Now Tulsa is trying to beat out OKC with "something bigger"?  

I think if both cities continue to try and out-do each other, we will have two kick-ass cities without even knowing it happened.

----------


## dmoor82

I'll take the NBA and the Devon tower over a HRC and a D&b anyday! but it's still cool to see Tulsa getting some stuff! and from what In Tulsa has said Tulsa might even be getting something big!

----------


## Easy180

> I think if both cities continue to try and out-do each other, we will have two kick-ass cities without even knowing it happened.


That would be nice...Would love to be able to take a short drive to Tulsa instead of Big D for a weekend getaway...Just not enough up there right now to make the shift...I hope Tulsa continues to get more of the only upscale shops as that would limit the damage my wife can do to a few times a year

----------


## In_Tulsa

You should come up to Tulsa and stay at the Hard Rock Hotel with rooms from 150.00 to the Rock Star Suite for 2600.00 a night you'll find a room you like.



www.hardrockcasinotulsa.com

----------


## Easy180

No can do Tulsa...Wife and I stopped gambling 5 or 6 years ago...Used to do some serious damage heading to Shreveport and Tunica several times a year...Last time we gambled at Riverwind we went through $200 in 45 minutes

We be done 

Used to live in S. Tulsa and we loved it there...Wouldn't hesitate to move back

----------


## Chase

When should we expect to hear this big announcement for Tulsa?

----------


## CuatrodeMayo

Sometime within the next 30 years.

(that should cover it)

----------


## Urban Enthusiast

Me thinks In_Tulsa is pulling our legs.




> Sometime within the next 30 years.


That sounds about right.  For the past 36 years Tulsa has had the tallest in the state.  For 42 years prior to that, OKC had the tallest.  The two cities keep doing the tall building tango.

----------


## Laramie

> The new tower in OKC will be nice and the biggest in the state. But a little birdy told me about _something bigger is coming out of the ground in Downtown Tulsa stay tuned!!
> _
> Hint: Local company but not local in Tulsa Yet?????


*I wouldn't hold my breath, home skillet!  Tulsa is one of those cities, the earth wouldn't swallow!*

----------


## khook

Hmm is the Indian statue finallly going to rise...

----------


## bombermwc

If it does...big whoopy. It doesn't count in the world of records. It would classify as a strucuture, not a building. If we were talking structures, then I believe the WKY tower in OKC held the record, not the BOK tower. That is until it got killed in a twister...was that 97?

----------


## Urban Enthusiast

Ugh, I hope the indian statue never gets built.  Tulsa has plenty of Kitsch stuff as it is.

----------


## okcpulse

> If it does...big whoopy. It doesn't count in the world of records. It would classify as a strucuture, not a building. If we were talking structures, then I believe the WKY tower in OKC held the record, not the BOK tower. That is until it got killed in a twister...was that 97?


WKY toppled on June 13, 1998 in an F3 tornado.  But... what record did it hold???  Are you confusing that with the KWTV tower, which stands at more than 1,500 ft tall?  WKY tower was no more than 700 ft., and that may be stretching it.

----------


## bombermwc

It may nothave been WKY then, but I know it's not KWTV. It was one of those things no one ever really paid attention to because it's a structure. But then again, the CN tower is in the structure class also, and it's freaking huge. Anyway, my point is, if they build that freaking statue, it's going to be a horrible eyesore that everyone will hate. And you'll find that the Devon Tower will win in any contest. The numbers of feet don't always mean anything. So even if it's taller than Devon (which I doubt they'll ever get enough funding to do that), big whoopie. Devon is making ripples worldwide with the design...and in a good way.

And if you wanna say someone in Tulsa is about to build some 60 floor building....i'd like to see it happen...honestly. But, unless you've got some billion dollar project from a company no one knows about..... It sure won't be Williams or BOK.

----------


## RedDirt717

I kind of like the Big Brother/Little Brother Rivalry we've got going. 

As much as I like to see OKC doing well, I'm an overall Okie advocate. After recently moving back to Oklahoma from Washington DC I'm more enthralled with the genuine goodness of this place now then I ever have been.

Not that I dont miss DC, but this place is special.

I see OKC and Tulsa like two players on the same team pushing the other to be better by getting better themselves.

----------


## SoonerBent

I've heard the BOK center described as "incredible, amazing, astonishing, etc.".  We went there Friday night for the first time. I don't get it. OK, The outside is a more modern architecture then the Ford center. And the first level concourse has a lot of large, open space. I don't consider either of those a real improvement and that's about where any real positive differences end as far as I see. The BOK third level has little open space and at the corners it gets really narrow. Odd design. The Ford center has a decent club level. BOK is only suites, no additional club level seating. And there are about half enough facilities. I've never, ever stood in line 20 to 30 men outside the door of a restroom at the Ford center. Yes, the restrooms at BOK are large, open and well lighted but a lot of that large, open, wasted space could have been used for more plumbing fixtures. Last, I can't forget all the complaints about the small rows and seats at the Ford center. Well, at 5'7" and 170 I was hitting my knees on the seat in front of me and being too intimate with the guy on the non-wife side of my seat at BOK. The seats at BOK aren't a bit bigger than the Ford center.

Except for the architecture, which is a matter of taste anyway, I don't see the big deal about the BOK center. A perfect case of the grass always being greener I think.

----------


## Urban Enthusiast

The architecture of the BOK Center is what makes it "incredible, amazing, astonishing, etc." Of course, that's a very subjective thing.  I mean the rest is just an arena.  An arena is an arena, give or take some amenities.  The BOK Center does a good job of marrying form and function, though not to everyone's taste perhaps.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

just wondering, does the new hard rock have a hard rock cafe? You would think that would be mandatory, but i cant find it anywhere.

----------


## bombermwc

There's a whole thread around that soonerfan...but the short answer is, no.

And totally agree SoonerBent. Theyre both arenas. Ford Center will soon have more open space, shops, etc, but they'll both still be arenas.

If anyone wants to see what an arena can be, check out the one they're trying to build in Jersey. This is beyond anything even thought of before folks.

And forgot to mention, check out the concerts that are starting to line up at Ford Center once it's open again in the fall. Star Wars is a great example of how these two facilites are on equal footing. But the concerts are starting to line up...and with even more free dates with the Blazers out this season, you can bet your bippy that SMG will be filling those up.

----------


## jbrown84

> just wondering, does the new hard rock have a hard rock cafe? You would think that would be mandatory, but i cant find it anywhere.


Nope.  But it has an ice bar with amazing drinks.  WAAAYYY better than a Hard Rock Cafe.

Oh, and there's a Waffle House next to it...

----------


## jbrown84

> And forgot to mention, check out the concerts that are starting to line up at Ford Center once it's open again in the fall. Star Wars is a great example of how these two facilites are on equal footing. But the concerts are starting to line up...and with even more free dates with the Blazers out this season, you can bet your bippy that SMG will be filling those up.


*FORD CENTER*
Kings of Leon
Rob Thomas
Robin Williams
Star Wars in Concert
AC/DC

*BOK CENTER* (about half of this is taking place before the Ford reopens)
Paul McCartney
Rod Stewart
Lil Wayne
Def Leppard/Poison/Cheap Trick
Britney Spears
WWE Smackdown
Taylor Swift
Dave Matthews
Creed
Miley Cyrus
Star Wars in Concert
So You Think You Can Dance Tour

Mostly different stuff.  Not better.  They just have more dates open.  Like bomber said, equal footing.

Also, we're getting U2, Jerry Seinfeld, UFC, and Margaret Cho and they are not.

----------


## OKCMallen

> *FORD CENTER*
> Kings of Leon
> Rob Thomas
> Robin Williams
> Star Wars in Concert
> AC/DC
> 
> *BOK CENTER* (about half of this is taking place before the Ford reopens)
> Paul McCartney
> ...


The BOk has the Ford beat in quality and quantity this year.

----------


## jbrown84

Meh. To each his own.

----------


## bombermwc

You look and see how many days the Thunder takes up?

----------


## OKCDrummer77

> You look and see how many days the Thunder takes up?


44 (one open practice, 2 preseason games, 41 regular seaon). More if they happen to make the playoffs.

----------


## bombermwc

Exactlly. I'll take those 44 days of basketball over a couple more concerts ANYDAY!

----------


## RealJimbo

> If it does...big whoopy. It doesn't count in the world of records. It would classify as a strucuture, not a building. If we were talking structures, then I believe the WKY tower in OKC held the record, not the BOK tower. That is until it got killed in a twister...was that 97?


You are thinking about the KWTV tower which, when it was built, was the tallest manmade structure in the world.  It didn't hold that title for long, though.  It was built in 1954 and was the tallest until 1956 when the KOBR TV tower was built in Caprock NM.

----------

