# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Midwest City/Del City >  What would you replace Heritage Park Mall with?

## bombermwc

Do it's a dead mall and has been for 10 years. It's a safe mall, but it's dead. There's nothing left except Sears (gotta keep that Craftsman stuff baby)! So what would be put in it's place? I've got two options that I think would work well.

1. Residential - just bulldoze the mall and replace it with housing development. Leave the couple of outparcels and Sears and you've got an already graded neighborhood with easy access through all the lights. Plus it provides the needed room for devlopment on the west side of MWC. Other devlopments on Air Depot less than a mile away filled up VERY quickly in what little space there was.

2. Mixed Use - there is no office space to speak of left in MWC. The MD Tower and Parklawn have been it for years and we need more. People build these little house looking complexes that use the space very inefficiently. MWC has been in need of more multistory office space for years (as shown by how the hospital has bought many small buildings around town since the space on Parklawn is full). So how about a couple 10 or so floor buildings? Maybe even make one of the a residential tower. MWC is in need of more upscale condo/apt. type developments as shown by Legacy being so popular. So again bulldoze and make some vertical space happen....plus it's always bugged me that Del City's bank tower is taller than anything in MWC, even if it is by only a couple floors....arg!

Comments?

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## SOONER8693

I like #2.

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## SoonerDave

It's really sad Heritage Park has just kind of sunk into an abyss...you'd like to think something like that could be rehabbed....

The problem with any rehab project is that HP is only a stone's throw away from the new development going in along SE 29th, and I can't fathom anyone who would want to try and establish (or re-establish) a big retail presence in the face of that kind of competition.

I frankly don't know what you can do with HP. The last anchor, Dillard's, left a few months ago, and I frankly don't think Sears cares if the rest of the mall is even there. I've already been told that Chik-Fil-A will close upon opening of a free-standing site on 29th, so the out-year prospects for the rest of the mall are seemingly ever-diminishing.

Multi-use office space, ala Shepherd Mall, may be the only viable option available.

-SoonerDave

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## Lauri101

I like # 2 also.

Midwest City could benefit from offering more office space, and vertical is the way to go for efficiency.

The condo idea is great - a straight shot down Reno to get downtown, but close to shopping areas.   :Idhitit:

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## bombermwc

Now all we need is the investor...LOL

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## BricktownGuy

The owner apparently had some redevelopment plans to renovate it to keep it into the existing mall shops.

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## bombermwc

Yeah well that was 5 years ago when he said that....has he done anything? No. Has the mall continued to decline? Yes.

Since then, Dillard's left, as well as many smaller tenants. Inside, you basically have the shoe stores Chick-Fil-A (until the new one is built on 29th), and mostly crappy mix stores. Not to be stereotypical, but it's the general idea of the shops that sell crappy purses, CD's, and junk...one after another.

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## Lauri101

Too true, bombermwc, and sad.  I'm old enough to remember when that piece of land was a dirt bike track and I remember the excitement when Heritage was open for business.

My daughters and I did a lot of shopping there.  The last time I went, I was appalled at the dirt and disrepair, not to mention lack of places to shop.

Maybe we need that dirt bike track again?  :Smile:

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## bombermwc

I found this site today....interesting but not sure how current it is.

Heritage Park Mall | Shop on the Edge of Midwest City

Would be interesting if it actually happened.


and a little tag line I found somewhere...

"A lot of people do not realize that the intersection of Reno and Air Depot had some of the highest traffic counts in the city in 2004 with just under 30,000 cars per day, which is well above most retailers' minimum criteria, he said. The fundamentals are there. They just need to be presented better."

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## Lauri101

If they go lime green, I'll NEVER go there!

UGH!

The design isn't bad, but those colors...<shudder>

Can you tell I hate lime green? :Smiley103:

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## BricktownGuy

> I found this site today....interesting but not sure how current it is.
> 
> Heritage Park Mall | Shop on the Edge of Midwest City


Yes, this is what I was referring to.

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## bombermwc

> If they go lime green, I'll NEVER go there!
> 
> UGH!
> 
> The design isn't bad, but those colors...<shudder>
> 
> Can you tell I hate lime green?


I think you need to check your eyes or your monitor....it's yellow not green. Not that it's any better because its still ugly.

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## wheeler

With all the new stores on 29th I think the traffic data is probably outdated.  What about a waterpark?  I think it would make a lot of money and lots of families would benefit.

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## bombermwc

Except the one at Regional's pool sort of shows that a water park in MWC isn't exactlly a money making affair. People want a place like White Water, not the "Reno Slip and Slide"....always hated that name. I'm not sure OKC would be able to support two park, nor would they choose to since WW is so much larger than that site....and so well established. It would have to outdo WW by a mile for people outside of the east side to use it.

I think we're better focussing on normal commercial/residential.

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## jc74

How about tearing it down and making an outdoor style mall like they have in Dallas.

Or better yet how about a new movie theater?  It's strange that there isn't a theater in the Mid/Del area.

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## mranderson

> How about tearing it down and making an outdoor style mall like they have in Dallas.
> 
> Or better yet how about a new movie theater? It's strange that there isn't a theater in the Mid/Del area.


Why does everything have to be "like they have in Dallas?" Why not be creative. Or there are a lot of other cities that have things we could copy. 

Too many Dallasite want to be's here.

Now. What would I do? I have proposed this before. Keep it a mall, however, have shops that cater to military and make it a base mall. A mall BX.

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## jc74

Well perhaps Mranderson...BECAUSE it works!!  If OKC wants to compete and attract major companies to this area they need to mirror what succesfull growing cities have done.

Oh by the way since your all about criticizing people's opinons your "creative" idea for the mall sounds a lot like the Old Paris Flea Market.  I bet you were a  supporter for saving the old strip mall outside Tinker?

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## soonerfaithful

> How about tearing it down and making an outdoor style mall like they have in Dallas.
> 
> Or better yet how about a new movie theater?  It's strange that there isn't a theater in the Mid/Del area.


I like the idea of a theater. I can remember waiting to see Return of the Jedi the first week it came out. The line wrapped all the way around by Sears. 
Then they built the theater at Crossroads and that pretty much doomed the one inside Heritage.

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## mranderson

> Well perhaps Mranderson...BECAUSE it works!! If OKC wants to compete and attract major companies to this area they need to mirror what succesfull growing cities have done.
> 
> Oh by the way since your all about criticizing people's opinons your "creative" idea for the mall sounds a lot like the Old Paris Flea Market. I bet you were a supporter for saving the old strip mall outside Tinker?


You might THINK it works, however, just because those people down south like it does not mean it is good for us. There are numerous cities we could be emulating.

My idea is not "Old Paris Flea Market." That market is not strictly for military nor is it  BX. It is a very rundown building with junk dealers.

And on criticizing others opinions? No. I try to educate people based on what I have learned over my decades of political eduacation and other experience. These people are entitled to OPINION.

BTW. This topic is about Heritage Park Mall, not my 52 years on earth, most of which has been in Oklahoma City.

 :Texas Sucks:   :Backtotopic:

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## PUGalicious

> And on criticizing others opinions? No. I try to educate people based on what I have learned over my decades of political eduacation and other experience. These people are entitled to OPINION.


 :LolLolLolLol:  :Lol2:  :LolLolLolLol:  :Lol2:  :LolLolLolLol: 
Man, you are hysterical! I almost spewed milk out my nose! 
I guess I didn't realize how funny you were with self-deprecating humor.

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## BaconCheeseburgerDeluxe

I think they need to turn the place into the world's largest Dairy Queen Laundromat/Roller-Disco/Car Wash.

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## Patrick

> I think they need to turn the place into the world's largest Dairy Queen Laundromat/Roller-Disco/Car Wash.


Me thinks they need to turn it into the largest hamburger joint, and serve baconcheeseburger deluxes.

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## bombermwc

Wow...stupidity.
Anyway......

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## mcbee04

I worked at Sears for a little over a year and just changed jobs at the end of May. Sears doesn't care if the rest of the mall is there, as someone previously mentioned. They own that building, the rest of the mall was built on to them. Our store manager gave us a long speech one night about how we had just spent lots of money installing a new air conditioning system and various other repairs as reasons why we wouldn't be closing. Then 2 weeks later she quit, along with the managers of two of the other area Sears (Quail Springs and Norman, I believe). I'm not sure what's going on. 
As for the website, it's definitely _not_ current. Most of the stores it lists are no longer there. A-Z is closing as well.

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## soonerfaithful

> I worked at Sears for a little over a year and just changed jobs at the end of May. Sears doesn't care if the rest of the mall is there, as someone previously mentioned. They own that building, the rest of the mall was built on to them.


It wasn't until the old Sears at 15th and Midwest Blvd. burned and needed a new building that the mall was built.
I was driving by the mall last night and thought about how sad it looked. Not many cars and the cars that were there I figured were probably employees cars.

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## Midtowner

I think that not only MWC, but the entire OKC area would be served very well by an upscale red light district.

Little Amsterdam we'll call it.

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## Drake

I have heard from two different people about a rumor that Mathis Bros bought the Dillards for a furniture clearance outlet.

Bomber and some others might do some digging

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## CuatrodeMayo

Heritage Park Lake.

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## OKC PATROL

> I think that not only MWC, but the entire OKC area would be served very well by an upscale red light district.
> 
> Little Amsterdam we'll call it.


420- "It's a Good Thing".- Martha Stewart

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## Jonboyinget

I agree nothing but good clean fun can come from a red light district.  It would attract all kinds of interesting and exotic people to enjoy the finer things in life.  If one thing it would help the economy and attract some tourism as well.  
When I was in Paris the red light district attracted people of all ages, creed, and country.  Although it was kind of strange being surrounded by people as old as my Grandparents during a cabaret with topless dancers serving food and prancing around in peacock feathers, it really did make me glad to experience such a wonderful place.

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## bombermwc

NIMBY! You want a red light district, no way in hell are you going to put it in MWC.

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## Midtowner

Bomber -- with a major military base just a short distance away, it'd be a huge hit.

These things don't have to be sleazy.  If you've ever been to Paris or Amsterdam, you'd realize that.

-- But I realize, of course, this is not realistic.  It's just fun to throw out an idea which is as ineffectual as anything else in this thread... as if I have any say on what gets developed there.

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## Martin

i'm sure the town of valleybrook would not be too pleased about such a development.  -M

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## Lauri101

> Bomber -- with a major military base just a short distance away, it'd be a huge hit.
> 
> These things don't have to be sleazy.  If you've ever been to Paris or Amsterdam, you'd realize that.


With some of the people moving into my neighborhood in MWC lately, the red light district might make for better neighbors! :Tiphat:

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## Midtowner

> i'm sure the town of valleybrook would not be too pleased about such a development.  -M


Too bad.  They've had their opportunity to create a "nice" district.  They have managed to cobble together a few skanky strip clubs and a speed trap.  Next.

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## bombermwc

Well how about we think about something that doesn't involve a red light district and talk about something that actually has a chance to work.

And the next time someone suggests something like that, why dont you ask how you would feel if it were across the street from your house.

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## Midtowner

> Well how about we think about something that doesn't involve a red light district and talk about something that actually has a chance to work.
> 
> And the next time someone suggests something like that, why dont you ask how you would feel if it were across the street from your house.


Yeah, because a professional developer is going to go to OKCTalk for pointers as to what to build there?  Sure the suggestion is nonsense, but no less so than anything else which might be suggested in this thread.

But okay.. what we need is a 30-story oil rig with a scenic overlook surrounded by a botanical garden.

Better?

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## Easy180

omg...Midtowner..That would be a perfect place for picnics and just imagine how many senior citizen charter buses would stop by for a photo op...Throw in a couple of Luby's and a Golden Corral nearby and that place would be crazy

Awesome suggestion  :Yourock:

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## Rifleman2C

> "A lot of people do not realize that the intersection of Reno and Air Depot had some of the highest traffic counts in the city in 2004 with just under 30,000 cars per day, which is well above most retailers' minimum criteria, he said. The fundamentals are there. They just need to be presented better."



The whole mall has been just a bit on the clunky side from the beginning... even if it was based on the Sears on the corner plot (is that true?), the traffic pattern input/output was pretty inefficient, anyway.

With 30K vehicles passing that intersection in 2004, it is a testament to the idea of the mall that not too many have decided to stop by in the past three years.

Time to go with a new more 'approachable' approach.  





Although, I'll bet Sears won't change a thing.

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## soonerfaithful

Well we now know what will be going into Dilliard's space.

Thu December 6, 2007
Church buys mall space

By Richard Mize
Real Estate Editor
If the Christian Gospel was meant to be distributed at the retail level, Edmond-based LifeChurch.tv's newest future campus is in a perfect place:
The former Dillard's at Heritage Park Mall in Midwest City.



 Life Covenant Church Inc. bought the nearly 100,000-square-foot space  attached to the mall, not a freestanding building  this week. The church paid $1.5 million to Fred Mazaheri's Midland Capital LLC.

LifeChurch.tv, which has about a dozen campuses in Oklahoma and several other states, has no immediate plans for the space but eventually will open a church branch, said Bobby Gruenewald, pastor-innovation leader.

"We don't have a particular timeline or timeframe as to when we might start or when we might open, he said, noting that news of the property acquisition will whet east-area members' desire for a meeting space.

It's not the church's first former retail location. LifeChurch.tv's south Oklahoma City campus is in leased former store space at 7800 S Walker Ave., an Oklahoma City campus is in leased space in a former Wal-Mart at 5821 Northwest Expressway, and a campus in Fort Worth, Texas, is in a former movie theater attached to a strip center, Gruenewald said.

The congregation, part of the Evangelical Covenant Church, constructed buildings for campuses at 2001 NW 178 and in Stillwater. The church also has campuses at 7015 E 41st Street in Tulsa and in Mesa, Ariz., Wellington, Fla., Albany, N.Y., and Hendersonville, Tenn. The main church is at 4600 E Second Street in Edmond.

When it comes to real estate, "we've done a little bit (of) everything to start new campuses, Gruenewald said. "We look at the most effective use for our dollars. Buying and leasing property (is usually) more cost-effective than building.

LifeChurch.tv will bring new life to Heritage Park Mall, but not the kind most mall owners are looking for, said Mark Inman, the broker with CB Richard Ellis-Oklahoma who represented the church in the transaction.

An open, functioning space beats a dark, abandoned space, he said, but it probably won't mean a business boon for the rest of the mall, which has been struggling for years. Managers for the mall's out-of-state owners could not immediately be reached.

The church will renovate and improve the space, however, which will help the overall appearance of the property, Inman said.

Dillard's closed its Heritage Park Mall location in February. The mall owners, who were not involved in the sale of the separate Dillard's property, probably would have preferred another big anchor store, Inman said.

The mall owners' plans for improvements remain in place, according to the mall's Web site.

In one place, the Web site also says: "We have many unique locally owned stores where you are likely to find exactly what you are looking for.

But in another place, under several lease specials, the site says: "Retailers Needed. Heritage Park Mall seeks a variety of retailers: Apparel, Restaurants, Music & Movies, Novelty & Gifts, Specialty Stores.

With Dillard's now gone and the old Montgomery Ward space long empty, Sears is the mall's last remaining anchor, Inman said.

Someone posted memories of Heritage Park Mall on the "Dead Malls Web site  deadmalls.com  in April 2006. LifeChurch.tv won't resurrect the mall, Inman said.

"It's a user for a piece of real estate that probably would have sat for a long time, he said.

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## bombermwc

I was sure hoping they would take something like the old WalMart instead of the mall. I'd rather see the mall torn down.

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## cowzrul

I like #2 as well. I could see a smaller movie theater with some the remaining space an outdoor strip mall and Sears doing a face-lift to become stand-alone. Anything that creates JOBS...the more the better! As it stands the mall doesn't employ very many people and MWC needs good paying jobs to truly live up to the "East is In" statement.

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## bombermwc

Someone told me recently that the old rumors of turning it into a Shepard Mall type facility (office space) was becoming more a reality now. That with the box stores all gone (Except Sears which could stand alone easily), that they were really looking to do this. 

I think as long as they don't charge mall prices for space, it would work great. Remodel the interior for that type of use and it would meet a VERY big need for office space in MWC. Not to mentin that they could create a real Food Court for the employees in the space too.

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## ewoodard

Why not keep one half retail and open the other half up to commercial office space or clinics for dentists, chiropractors, massage/physical therapy, etc...
I think with the buildin on 29th that the reno/air depot area needs to be updated, but not with bike tracks or the like. We need more business income for the city.

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## Oh GAWD the Smell!

> Well we now know what will be going into Dilliard's space.
> 
> Thu December 6, 2007
> Church buys mall space
> 
> By Richard Mize
> Real Estate Editor
> If the Christian Gospel was meant to be distributed at the retail level, Edmond-based LifeChurch.tv's newest future campus is in a perfect place:
> The former Dillard's at Heritage Park Mall in Midwest City.
> ...



Oh man...Talk about 1 stop shopping....So....Many....Jokes....So....Little...  Time...


*pop*

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## bombermwc

If anyone has been blind lately, since 29th has really taken off, pretty much every other strip mall in MWC has undergone major renovations to update their look. Air Depot, 15th, etc. Most recently I noticed that the Lockheed area was getting a facelift again. I think everyone got the message that they would have to pony up some cash to compete.

Now it's Heritage's turn...and adding those signs out by the street was a move in the wrong direction...they look horrible. What they need to do is make the damned decision to stop being retail and either bulldoze the crap or convert it. Stop letting it just sit there sending money down the toilet. I mean even the lights in the parking lot aren't all working anymore. And when was the last time anyone went IN the mall to shop??????

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## NE Oasis

> If anyone has been blind lately, since 29th has really taken off, pretty much every other strip mall in MWC has undergone major renovations to update their look. Air Depot, 15th, etc. 
> 
> Now it's Heritage's turn... either bulldoze the crap or convert it.


And for a lesson in how NOT to do it, see the old K-Mart at Reno and Sooner

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## Lauri101

That whole side of town is an embarassment, from Sooner to Midwest Blvd.  

Until the MWC Council starts passing some code regarding appearance, landscaping and signage, and make it retroactive, we'll continue to have eyesores like Anthony's, HPM and vacant lots on Midwest Blvd.  For goodness sake, a little paint and a few trees wouldn't be that damn hard!

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## bombermwc

Well in Anthony's defense, they were trying to go for a unified look to their signage that they didn't have at their old location. I think the neon looks better than the huge rectangular K-Mart/Venture signs did. And at least they moved to MWC instead of going out to Reno or something. It kept MWC from having yet another empty big-box store.

And if you didn't know, Mr. Anthoy lives in the upstairs portion of the building just as he did in the old location. Notice how they added his balcony up there too? Most of the upstairs residence area used to be offices/breakroom for the retail stores. I don't know if he bought the place or if he leases it like K-Mart did. In that case, we should be blaming the leaseing company for the appearance of the building.

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## MRG73110

I think bulldozing HPM and turning it into a gated 'exclusive' nieghborhood is a much better idea than a Church TV studio that only takes money from those who can least afford it and then purchase a $1.5M building just to sit on it.  How do we stop this chaos?  Lets get it rezoned and get rid of the anticipation.

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## masonsmomma

I live right next to the mall and there is now way I would want a gated 'exclusive' place next to me. I don't care for the Church TV Studio idea either, but making it something like an exclusive for the rich people isn't going to make it any better. This side of the town is going down hill and fast, I doubt the people that would live in the exclusive area would even want to.

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## bombermwc

Down hill fast? I just don't see that at all. Just because the mall is collapsing, it doesn't have anything to do with the neighborhoods...which are extremely safe! I'm not sure what you are basing your opinion on, but with all of the people I know that live over there, "down hill fast" is not accurate.

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## CuatrodeMayo

I know for a fact that it is a good neighborhood.

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## masonsmomma

Do you live in this area? Everything in this side of the town is going down. The pep boys is on its way to closing along with the popeyes closing a couple months ago. The mall has very little reason to be open except for the Sears, unless you like to buy the cheap stuff from a-z outlet. With 29th street becoming such a great success, the empty spaces are popping up all the time on this side of town. Not to mention it's not the safest part of Midwest City. If you don't agree, that's fine, it's just my thoughts on it.

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## bombermwc

How does 3 businesses closing quanitfy "going down hill"? I'm sad to see Pep Boys close...can't quite figure that one out to be honest. But Popey's never did well there. That place was always empty, no matter what goes in there, it's going to have a problem because of the location. Arby's is established because it's been there forever, but Popeye's just doesnt draw a crowd.

And "not the safest part of MWC"....what planet are you on? It's not as though you live north of 10th street. You can walk around those neighborhoods at night by yourself, just like you can anywhere else south of 10th. If you're basing something off of a crime tracker or something, then you aren't paying attention either.

I just completely and whole heartedly disagree, and I think 99&#37; of MWC would be on my side too. Empty stores have absolutely nothing to do with the neighborhoods there...at all....period.

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## CuatrodeMayo

Maybe if you compare it to the gated communities on the far east side of town, it is the safest.

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## masonsmomma

It's not just three stores, you also have the wal-mart, target, and albertsons that went out. My point wasn't to say that the neighborhoods are going down hill because the stores are closing. I have lived in Midwest City all my life and this side of town has never really been the greatest part. I live really close to 10th street so I do know what I'm talking about, and it's not just the 10th street area that is bad, what about the corner on Air Depot and Reno? That's not the greatest area either, how about the rape that happened at the Spring Tree apartments? I don't care if you don't really agree with me and I'm sure that the 99&#37; of MWC that you think is going to agree with you, will not. I've talked to many people who live here and have lived in this general area, and most of them agree with me that this side of the town IS going down hill, it's not getting the attention that 29th and 15th Street are getting. I think that they should be trying to get this side of town up and going again, it needs more than just some new gated community though.

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## m@ximus

They could put a Super Target in that area and that would draw some attention to the area.  There are so many Wal-Marts around with just not enough competition.

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## Lauri101

I'm glad that 29th Street is picking up, mostly for selfish reasons - I live within rock-throwing distance from Lowe's (well, if someone had a good arm!).

I have to agree with masonsmomma somewhat - that area around Reno and Air Depot looks like crap!  No one has kept up the properties around there, thanks to MWC allowing the constant building and development in the past with no requirements or enforcement of upkeep, landscaping, etc.

HPM should be gutted and turned into something both useful and attractive - multi-use retail and office perhaps.

And MWC needs to get busy and pass some laws that require landscaping and noise barriers, plus upkeep of proeprty and no grandfathering!

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## masonsmomma

Thanks! Someone finally atleast sees where I'm coming from. It's such a major disappointment to see that this side of town is looking so blah. I really wish the movie theater could have stayed open, I think that would have attracted atleast some more people to this side of town. Don't get me wrong I love that 29th is going great, I do most of my shopping over there, I just wish we still had something over here besides Crest.

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## bombermwc

Hello-----the Hospital bought Target practically before Target even left. There's no myster why Westlake and Target made their moves....it wasn't kept a secret. The hospital has been aquiring land over towards Parklawn for decades to try and move that direction in growth.

Wal-Mart and Albertson's were a loss. But without giving out too much detail...those structures may be gone in the next 5 years in lieu of a facility that is complelty unexpected.

The area near Reno and Air Depot is going down hill???? How? Raintree has always been a big pile of crap...even when it was new. Again, quanifying that the area is going down hill by a few stores closing?? Did you not notice the new neighborhoods that went in not 1/2 mile north of Reno....right there...within the last 5 years????

So the area is SOO bad, that people want to build new homes, apartments, retirement communities? It just doesn't add up, sorry.

I've lived in MWC my whole life too.

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## masonsmomma

I was not aware that there was a retirement community around here. Where is it located? I would love the idea of the hospital expanding and bringing in new doctors and other buildings, so I'm for that idea. But all the empty buildings are eyesores and don't look good, sorry if you think they look great. I did notice the gated neighborhood that's near the church, it's great, but what's it doing for the low income families that surround this area?  I think I'd like to see something being done for the low income families around here, helping them get what they need. Legacy apartments came but they are for the people that can afford over $600 dollars for a one bedroom. I'd like to see new apartments that are affordable be built. 

 What are they planning on doing with the Wal-Mart area?

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## bombermwc

The retirement home has been on Air Depot since about 1998 I think. It looks like a very large home. Just west of Air Depot before you head into the neighborhood there across from the firestation...ish. I never remember the street name. When it was built, the area around it was just fields....that's all homes.

The arguements don't seem to balance though. The area there south of 10th isn't really low income. When you are right there ON 10th, youre pushing the boundary lines, but it's not representative of the vast majority of the neighborhood....I promise. How can you gripe about new buildings just because they are for a different economic group? They are all sold and full, so MWC isn't having a hard time filling them. And if you want to look at low income, then you need to look more over in the origional mile. 

The difference is that the folks that live in TOM have been working piece by piece on their own for a good decade to help revitalize the area. Everywhere you go, you see people who have renovated those old homes and are worknig to keep the place a nice quiet neighborhood. I guarantee they have less money than anyone in your neighborhood. They even attracted investment in the old Uptown Center to start renovations and expansions there. Again, that area is far more economically deprived than the Country Estates neighborhood (not to be confused with the elementary school).

Motivation is the key here. It's not the city's responsibility to level everyone's playing field. If you want to make changes, you have to start at the bottom and look at what you as an individual can do to make changes. It all starts with talking to civic leaders to discuss what you think can help. If you see something going on, talk to a councilman about what can be done to change it. They do listen...lots of stuff has happened around MWC because of that sort of effort.

Commercially, I can tell you that the chamber and the city do what they can to attract businesses. The economical development center has an amazing amount of publically available information that you can look at. They try a lot harder than most of the OKC suburbs to attract businesses to MWC. It's more of a little here and a little there to fill in rather than big jobs like 29th. 

As for Wal-Mart, I can't really talk about it. It's far from being a done deal...more exploratory right now. But it's something we've needed for quite some time.

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## metro

Keep in mind lifechurch.tv purchased the old Dillards and plans to develop it into a campus later this year. I'm sure this along with the property company willing to market the property, we'll see some sort of mixed use development.

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## masonsmomma

Well thanks for the information, I'd really just like to see some improvement around this general area. You seem to know some dirt on the Wal-mart thing, and it seems to be something that will benefit the city!

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## oneforone

> Keep in mind lifechurch.tv purchased the old Dillards and plans to develop it into a campus later this year. I'm sure this along with the property company willing to market the property, we'll see some sort of mixed use development.


 
I am looking forward to seeing the 900th statue of Pastor Craig posing like the Jesus statue in Rio.

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## Lauri101

> I am looking forward to seeing the 900th statue of Pastor Craig posing like the Jesus statue in Rio.


OMG!  LMFAO!

Maybe we'll even get an auographed picture of Jesus!

----------


## Oh GAWD the Smell!

> OMG!  LMFAO!
> 
> Maybe we'll even get an auographed picture of Jesus!



Just look closer at your grilled cheese.

----------


## oneforone

> I am looking forward to seeing the 900ft statue of Pastor Craig posing like the Jesus statue in Rio.


Just for clarification I meant to post 900ft statue not 900th.

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## mmonroe

Wow, so much information.. so little time.  

Just to point out a few things, I believe Anthony's store on Reno and Sooner is a nice addition to that area.  I was there when it was painted, I was there when the signs went up, and I was there when it was being renovated.  As a matter of fact, Anthony was my sunday school teacher when I was in kindergarten.  His living space above the store is really very nice, you should have seen it before the renovation.  Anthony went for big on the neon signs because midwest city has an issue with tall signs and passed an ordinance where they can only be so big, so instead we get these little short signs all over midwest city with thirty different store name displays on them (i.e. Look down Air Depot).  But they don't have an ordinance against flag poles, Anthony wanted to stick out, and so he had a huge flag pole put in.  Nice.  

Chick-Fil-A is still open inside of HPM.  The one on 29th and the in HPM is owned by two different people.  Btw, if you're looking for a job, the owner of the one on 29th said he was looking for AM, apparently, not many people have applied for that.

A lesser known church inside HPM, New Life Church was in the process with Hobby Lobby of purchasing the old Dilliards building and was just about to sign purchasing when LifeChurch.tv swooped in and bidded .5 million higher and stole the real estate and now LifeChurch.tv plans to just sit on it.  How nice, the bigger church stealing from a small church.  Pretty crappy in my opinion.  I have no respect for that.

More office space... Nick Harroz built the Cherry Center and to date, still has a lot of open space to lease.  I don't know what the cost per sf is, but it must be too high to afford.  

As far as the future of HPM, it's been bought and sold 3 seperate times, the latest to a california based company who planned on renovating it by tearing out the south side and replacing it with glass fronts, guess thats not going to happen, besides all the tacky colors and paints used to try and make it more aesthetically pleasing.  With the three anchors holding down HPM, all owned independently from the mall itself, i doubt it will be torn down.

I'm honestly surprised Pelicans hasn't relocated to the 29th street corridor.  It's a nice restraunt.

On another note, i've lived in Midwest City all of my life ever since I was born at midwest regional, wasn't called midwest regional at the time, and lived on Arnold street, to all the times and area's we moved and lived in the different parts of midwest city.  I still live in midwest city, and i'm glad to see the development thats happening.  My only concern is do we have enough financial support and the right demographics to support and promote a healthy growing suburb?  When people talk about Oklahoma City and metro areas, we hear more about Edmond and Norman.  If any mention of the area of Midwest City is heard, it's called Tinker.  I just feel Midwest City is a diamond in the rough and only a stones throw from OKlahoma City, but only blocked by the eyesore of Del City.

On a third thought for the night, I would say that I would like to see the homes behind the 29th street development to be bought out at a fair market price, bull dozed and a nice new housing addition built in.  We see a lot of growth in the residential area on the out skirts of town, even south on sooner towards norman/southeast okc is booming in residential neighborhoods.  I believe the houses could be a quick sale because of it's location to shopping and I-40, not to mention raising property value of the area.  

Words? Thoughts?

Do remember, that these are my OPINIONS.

----------


## bombermwc

I don't think you'll ever get anyone on the Origional Mile idea. That place is packed thick with housing...much more dense than anything you would see today. That dense building means there are a LOT more homes to buy out, and believe it or not, people really like living there. It's a quiet neighborhood and it's safe. It may not be the prettiest homes you've seen, but the people that live there enjoy it and don't complain. They may be 60 year old cracker-box homes, but a huge number of people have either kept thier homes in good condition or have renovated them. I can't tell you how many people had their first home in that neighborhood....and still do.

Like any neighborhood, it has it's good and bad parts, but If you drive around and look at how many people have really put effort into their homes in the last 10 years, I think you'd see it's not as bad as it appears. It's not a 100K home neighborhood, but I don't think it should be bulldozed by any means. Let me see a plan to bulldoze everything north of 10th and I'll sign it. The homes may be bigger, but the crime is terrible up there...plus it's OKCPS.

----------


## mmonroe

Don't get me wrong, i've lived in this neighborhood and grew up in this neighborhood.  I'm really into urban renewal though, and i'd like to see midwest city move up.  As a matter of fact, I still live in this neighborhood on E. Jacobs.

----------


## Lauri101

> I don't think you'll ever get anyone on the Origional Mile idea. That place is packed thick with housing...much more dense than anything you would see today. That dense building means there are a LOT more homes to buy out, and believe it or not, people really like living there. It's a quiet neighborhood and it's safe. It may not be the prettiest homes you've seen, but the people that live there enjoy it and don't complain. They may be 60 year old cracker-box homes, but a huge number of people have either kept thier homes in good condition or have renovated them. I can't tell you how many people had their first home in that neighborhood....and still do.
> 
> Like any neighborhood, it has it's good and bad parts, but If you drive around and look at how many people have really put effort into their homes in the last 10 years, I think you'd see it's not as bad as it appears. It's not a 100K home neighborhood, but I don't think it should be bulldozed by any means. Let me see a plan to bulldoze everything north of 10th and I'll sign it. The homes may be bigger, but the crime is terrible up there...plus it's OKCPS.


 :Congrats:   :Congrats:   :Congrats:  

Well said, Bombermwc!

I happen to live in one of those "crackerbox" homes - although mine is no longer a crackerbox thanks to a 500 sf room addition.  The ol' "hood" is nice, quiet and definitely safer than anything north of 10th Street.  

I bought my house for under $25k, 27 years ago.  It's worth three times that now and I'll likely make my next move to either a nursing home or pine box.   We may not have fancy homes, but the builder who did my room addition said they don't build homes nearly as sturdy now as they did in 1953.  I'm on W. Rickenbacker, which is a pleasant walk to Town Center.  

Back on topic - what lifechurchtv did was despicable, but I think most religion is pretty worthless - my opinion.  
Ramen  :Bow:

----------


## mmonroe

Like I said, don't get me wrong, I live in this neighborhood too, I started out over on Arnold when I was a baby, moved around to E Ercoupe, W Douglas, Givens Dr, E Lockheed, and now E Jacobs.

----------


## bombermwc

I'd love to see HPM dozed and a new neighborhood put in personally. We'd get some frontage back for small businesses or whatever too.

Or like I've said before, give us a new 6-7 floor office tower that we really do need. Office space in MWC is full and they keep building those stupid house-sized places...yuk. Just look off both Douglas and Post.

Or maybe we could build a MWC football stadium???? Municpal place so we can doze the crapfest that are the mid-del fields and then we can host events like UCO does. Pipe dream...but whatever.

----------


## mmonroe

You'd still have to have someone with deep pockets to buy out the three anchors of HPM to do it, not to mention Whataburger and Pelicans in the parking lots...  

The Cherry Center still has a lot of space to rent out...

I'd like to see the baseball field by the Vo-Tech replaced with an expanded campus of the Mid-Del Vo-Tech.  There were talks about the District buying the land west of the campus where Furr's was, but no dice.  Or, what about getting rid of the old skating rink?

6-7 floor office towers does sound nice.

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## derbynurse

> Well how about we think about something that doesn't involve a red light district and talk about something that actually has a chance to work.
> 
> And the next time someone suggests something like that, why dont you ask how you would feel if it were across the street from your house.


Agreed! I live in the housing addition behind HP Mall and the last thing we need is to see one of the last really nice neighborhoods in MWC go to heck in a handbasket.  :Smile:

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## bombermwc

I was poking around the OKC Chamber site today and found this little snippet of information I think most people here would be interested in.

"Midwest City also has the highest median income in the State."

Those of you that continually do so, remember that the next time you start bashing my home.

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## kevinpate

but, but, but, isn't that already why they bash mwc?!?!?!

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## mmonroe

Median Income?

----------


## Lauri101

> I was poking around the OKC Chamber site today and found this little snippet of information I think most people here would be interested in.
> 
> "Midwest City also has the highest median income in the State."
> 
> Those of you that continually do so, remember that the next time you start bashing my home.



Atta' boy, bombermwc - you tell 'em for all of us!  :Boxing2:  

Oh, and:
Median is a mathematical result that indicates that one half of the group is higher and one half lower.

----------


## mmonroe

I know what Median is.. I'm talking about, how do you have a high medium?  


Geez, mean medium mode

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## Redskin 70

> I know what Median is.. I'm talking about, how do you have a high medium?  
> 
> 
> Geez, mean medium mode


Go to school, dont wear your hat side wise, talk with your mouth and not your fingers.
Do what your told and do it well. Dont  cause something to be re done.
Dont bad mouth your employerer within ear shot of the work place and never never with fellow employees
Go to work on time and stay late if requested.
Seems to work for most people.
Oh yeah and it takes years to............COmeing outa high school wont automatically get you a  6 figure job :Tiphat:  

But this thread was about heritage park mall.   
Keep the sears.............................................  .......

----------


## mmonroe

What are you talking about.  You seem to never make any kind of sense at all.

----------


## Redskin 70

> What are you talking about.  You seem to never make any kind of sense at all.


I have no idea..   Dont worry about it as it just to beyond any way...... :Tiphat:

----------


## bombermwc

So the basic point here is, that all these places that talk about having all this money, also have a lot of poor people too. You would think a city like Edmond would have a high median income, but apparently not. That shows how for each of those high income folks, there are plenty very poor people as well.

Now, turn this into a zip code thing, and you'll see a different picture I'm sure. Then you can isolate parts of Edmond or OKC, but don't have to take it as whole.

I'm not trying bash anyone or anything, I'm just repeating my usual spiel about how people underestimate MWC because they don't know anything about it. They just make a judgement based on driving through it on I-40 or something. There is a lot about MWC people dont see....which is what brings that median income up.

----------


## Thunder

I like MWC, but I'm raised in Del City.  I'll always bash MWCHS, cuz I attended to DCHS. Sorry, the Eagles disarmed the bombs.  :Big Grin: 




> ...talk with your mouth and not your fingers.


BTW, don't talk with our fingers?  How do you want the deafies to speak? LoL

----------


## mmonroe

Keyboards.

----------


## Redskin 70

> BTW, don't talk with our fingers?  How do you want the deafies to speak? LoL


I dont believe I was talking about the hearing impaired, just moron's
I also believe this thread had more to do with economics and heritage than morons..........Tag your it............lolololol :Tiphat:

----------


## Jesseda

maybe they can convert it into a outlet mall

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## bombermwc

That would be a nice idea....like a Mills Mall Jr.

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## mmonroe

For that to get the type of support it needs, we'd have to bring up the surrounding areas...

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## bombermwc

I don't think the neighborhood has anything to do with it. There are only 2 empty businesses anywhere near there. Pep Boys (which went bankrupt) and Popeye's...wooo fast food, big loss.

Since we don't have any real outlet malls in the state, I think that would be a more accurate representation of what would need to change. However, I don't see it happening because outlet malls are losing their customers all over the country. People aren't going to them nearly as much because they tend to be built farther out from metros...higher gas prices means less traveling. Think about how many fewer people go to Gainsville than used to.

That's why I like Mills Malls because they take the cocept indoors, and but it in an urban environment. Benefits of a mall (ie not outside in a strip center like most outlets), and youre IN town.

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## Lauri101

> That would be a nice idea....like a Mills Mall Jr.


My favorite is Grapevine Mills, but it is so huge! 

 I think you're on to something - now, how do we get the developers to notice?

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## mmonroe

Everything, to be successful, has to have people, ie neighborhoods.  The type of people in those neighborhoods dictate the type of success for a business and THE type of business to come in.  Would you place a JC Penny's on the east side of OKC right at oh... i don't know, 16th and MLK?  Of course not, the business would not be supported and people don't want to go into that neighborhood.    This is my point.  

Sure, Air Depot between 15th and Reno has a LOT of business, but it's cluttered, tacky, and starting to look a bit dated.  

North on reno you have odd department stores and rental places.  Also included is an obscure shopping center, apartments, funeral homes, and to the far, a nice Apartment complex [mark that as a point for your debate].  But to the east of that, an older community, and NE, the hoodlum area, also know as Panick Zone and Murder 1.  

Sure, just to the north of Heritage Park Mall, there are nice early '60s houses.

On the south side of reno heading west, you have an old office building, haggered looking buildings, a burnt down seafood place, a bar, on old parts yard, and apartments.  On the north side of Reno heading east back towards HPM, you have Anthony's, nice, Mid-Del Pantry, houses, a church, apartments and a small office house.  Then, What-A-Burger.  

Did you get the message i'm trying to convey here?

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## bombermwc

I think you are over-criticising the area. If that were the case, then why the crap would anyone have built on 29th? It was FAR worse off by any measure.

Plus the neighborhood directly behind Heritage is a VERY nice neighborhood. Just because the homes were built in the 60's and 70's doesn't make it bad. It's one of the best places to live in MWC.....nice homes, quiet, low traffic inside the neighborhoods, easy access to 3 main roads. One of, if not THE top rated elementary schools in the district.

Plus I would disagree on most of the points on homes/businesses. Again, North Air Depot. If it's so bad, why are all those new neighborhoods right there within the last 2-3 years? Why is the newest and best apartment complex ( a legacy complex for goodness sake) right there? Other than that, we have one funeral home that needs a little help. But that's it. 

Plus South of Reno has been redeveloped in many places. They've torn down some of the old buildings in favor of new ones...ie those crappy house looking places....Aldi taking the old vaccum place. I don't see the "crappy" stuff youre talking about.

West, yeah Captain D's burned down...it's also been bulldozed. It is one of the least appealing views of MWC, but it's also got one of the other best apartments in MWC and even more of the nice neighborhoods. But again, there's been new development there in the Masters Commision next to Anthony's. 

East, it's normal everyday stuff. Houses, Braums, Crest, etc. Nothing weird there to complain about.

Now, if MWC was stagnant and nothing was happening, I would totally agree. HOWEVER, all these areas continue to develop and grow. They may not always be developed in the most flashy way, but they aren't being left to deteriorate by any means. Just because we don't have lifestyle centers going in on every corner, doesn't mean it's bad. For someone that lives in MWC, I would think you would be more in touch with what the city has been doing. It's totally not the ghetto people think at all. i don't even consider the area north of 10th part of MWC...it's OCPS and is totally ghetto. It was a self defeating area as soon as it became OCPS.

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## andy157

> I know what Median is.. I'm talking about, how do you have a high medium?  
> 
> 
> Geez, mean medium mode


mmonroe, I'm not being criticle, but just trying to point out your misread of the post. bombermwc did not say that MWC had a high median income, he/she said they have the highest in the state. According to the C of C that is.

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## Drake

I don't think the closing of Pep Boys (the only one in Okla closed), Popeyes, and Captain D's (burned yes, but will not be rebuilt), Dillards and going back to Circuit City (which is now a Salvation Army store - not a good trade) is going to make any major developers or retailers jump at the chance to be at Reno & Air Depot. The track record for that area is horrible the last 15 years.

Being located 2 miles off the major highway would be a tough sell

----------


## Lauri101

> I think you are over-criticising the area. If that were the case, then why the crap would anyone have built on 29th? It was FAR worse off by any measure.
> 
> (snip)
> 
> Now, if MWC was stagnant and nothing was happening, I would totally agree. HOWEVER, all these areas continue to develop and grow. They may not always be developed in the most flashy way, but they aren't being left to deteriorate by any means. Just because we don't have lifestyle centers going in on every corner, doesn't mean it's bad.
> (snip)
>  i don't even consider the area north of 10th part of MWC...it's OCPS and is totally ghetto. It was a self defeating area as soon as it became OCPS.


As usual, you beat me to the punch on all points!  Well said, bombermwc! :Congrats:

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## mmonroe

*@bomber*, 29th is on the highway, thats why it took off like it did. It was far worse, and they bulldozed it all.  But what i'm really getting at is the type of business you have surrounding an establishment, dictates what business"persons" would feel would make them more money when picking a location to invest.  Would you place a fine dining establishment next to a strip club and a dollar general?

I did not mention anything about the '60's houses being bad, i said they were nice.

I gave you the point for the NEW apartments, so don't be so critical.

I have seen new development.

Crappy places, how about the tag agency/pawnshop/laundry mat? Or, the cigarette/nail salon next to sonic?  Then there is the bowling shop and loan place.  Then we also have the old liqour store that looks like the same architect who designed Del Ranchos also did theirs.  Don't even let me mention Nino's, I knew the old General Manager for the restaurant on the South Side, and let me tell you, you couldn't pay me to eat there.  Filth is clean compaired to whats in there.  Even better, how about the old sinclair gas station?  Also, the buildings in front of the skating rink.

On reno itself, the goodwill store, need I say more?

The sign restrictions in Midwest City are horrific.  Since they can not be too tall, we have midget signs that clutter the eye line of any motorist.  It's crazy.  I know Anthony, he told me since there were restrictions on sign highth, he decided to put a large flag since there were no restrictions from it in municipal code and people would still know he was there.  

The master commission buildings are nice, i do believe funding was provided by Medowood Baptist.
I was mearly stating what is over there.  Not bashing.

I am affluent with the progression in our area, but i'm not happy with the status qou.  And, since I lacked mentioning it, the Outlet mall would be a great idea.

*@andy*, i believe you misinterpreted my understanding of the post and the reply there of.  I was wanting to know HOW you have a high medium, as in, what are the factors, but no criticism taken.

*@Drake*, you get what i'm talking about.  But they do try to sell it on the point that it's only 9 minutes from downtown.  Even if the drive to and from are a bit blighted.

----------


## Redskin 70

There comes a certain point where the local government  has to step in and say, no more crap and  no more  eye paint  on that piece of crap old building. Tear it down.
No more pawn shops, no more used car lots, no more flea markets, no more second hand stores.
*No more.*    Just because a "business man" and most of them really arent, wants to put in a junk store, there is no reason the City should let that happen.
Midwest City, Del City, we  are in the same boat,  there has to be cooperation between the two to change the look of this part of the county.   And that cooperation is occurring, trust me.
Heritage Park mall can be a great asset again.........just don't allow  it to become a second hand super store...........Get involved about that issue.  Contact the chamber of commerce and express your concern and thoughts.   Folks there  have been some truly great ideas  you have posted about.......Share that vision with some one who can make it happen.
Citys have lots of power if harnessed to the  same team...........
though I be a Del City citizen, I truly do miss the old Heritage Mall.  But at least my(your) Sears store is still there.

Just my  ramblings, it is  in your court no doubt, but that building is still in great great shape, it just needs some active work to revamp. :Tiphat:

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## bombermwc

Very true Redskin. The building is in excellent condition. Not too many places can exist for 40 years and not ever be remodeled and still be that nice. It can serve a purpose, but a few things have to happen.
1 - someone needs to buy the place that will invest in it instead of bleeding it for cash like Simon did. Every cent it earned for Simon went into Penn for it's remodeling. That really pissed me off to no end. They deny it now, but it was easy to find out at the time the remodeling at Penn was going on.

2 - It needs a face lift inside. It's still dark inside with the 70's design. (and the blue junk has got to go). 

3 - ACTIVELY PURSUE GOOD TENANTS. There are stores that would go there, they just have to make it happen. Get rid of all the crap in there and work on some real stores. A bookstore for god sake, come on! They just exists and don't work towards anything there. If you don't push to make something happen, you're guranteed to fall. It's like college recruiting. You can say "it's not my job to recruit", but if you don't have students, you lose your job. Same thing here...if you wait for a tenanat, you'll lose your mall.

And I still disagree mmonroe. You'll find things like you pointed out, all over town. No matter what area you go to, you'll find good/bad/ugly. I don't find the area around the mall any different from any other. Have you ever driven around Penn Square? Good god, it's crack-ville there off Classen...the same distance away! Go up north to Mayfair Village...or 63rd/May...big shopping areas. You'll find all kinds of CRAP around there too. MWC isn't any different folks. Again, I think people try to label it for some weird reason, but it's just not that way.

----------


## mmonroe

Hey now, i don't try to place any label on anything.  I would just like to see us advance farther.  If you could get the quality of Penn, but in a better, no crack infested, area.  Would you live there, or by Penn?  


AND!!  Heritage Park had a bookstore, but no one really went to it.  How do I know, because I worked in Heritage back in the day, and Waldens just became the discount store for all the other Waldens to ship their old books too.  Even then no one really bought the books.

----------


## bombermwc

I never considered Walden's a bookstore. They didnt ever even have crap in any of their stores. And they were overpriced for what you got too. I was glad to see them go. I'd go to Amazon before I went there.

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## mmonroe

I get tired of going all the way to NW Expressway or SOMEWHERE along Memorial to get what I want... i'm tired of driving.  What do we have to do to get some business here.

----------


## Drake

Shop here when we do get something.

One of the main reasons Circuit City closed the MWC location was due to the fact that they were doing a more business at the I-240 location from MWC people than at the MWC store.

The indoor malls are mostly relics in the retail world. We have 1 really successful one (Penn) and a bunch of struggling ones. We are not unique in that area.

I'm just not sure you ever see athe area at Reno & Air Depot become a major retail center again.. Most retail is built similar to SE 29th with visiabilty from a major highway. The growth in eastern Oklahoma County is toward the SE. The area 1/2 mile north the intersection hurts it. For most people (especially the subdivisions w the larger homes) that is not a convenient to get to. Many people close to 240 will just get on and drive to the southside.

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## bombermwc

I shop in MWC whenever possible for sure. I can generally get it all done here now...thanks to 29th. I still venture into Heritage for GNC...but even with that I can find stuff online cheaper (with shipping). 

I think my first choice would still be to bulldoze it and make a neighborhood.

----------


## mmonroe

Well, Life Church did buy the Dilliards building.

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## Lauri101

> Well, Life Church did buy the Dilliards building.


It'd be nice if they could turn it into a place of *actual ministry* - to youth, families who need food or other assistance.

Ehhh...the bulldozing idea would probably help the community more than what is happening now.

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## Redskin 70

laurie,
I do disagree about the church thing.  The rest I will leave unsaid.
Bull dozing should not be an option for this structure and do consider it still has section line road status.
The concept of placing a neighborhood there may have merit but would not cash flow as acquisition of the property would be high and the utilities in place  are not positioned for a res development.
Now I would not be saying that it  the structure were 50 + years old.  Then the condition might warrant such a  expenditure.
The primary thing is getting some good tenets in there. Anchors like the past.
The down side is all the  major tenets you could attract are now clustered on 29th.......so............The majority of the neighbor hood is not a problem as it is still aggressivly watched for code violations.
Ah  so much to say,,,,Perhaps in the short term the removal of this building would be a good thing but ................not my decision. :Tiphat:

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## bombermwc

Unfortunately, i think we're stuck with the place....as is.

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## mmonroe

Lets just get active and start writing letters and calling.  

Something has to be done... is there not a community board set up with the CofC?

----------


## Lauri101

Here's the MWC Chamber of Commerce website
Midwest City Chamber of Commerce

There are some contact numbers and addresses, but no online forum.

In general, I haven't seen much evidence of "community involvement" - unless you are a paying member.  Understandable, of course, but you'd think a C of C of a growing city like MWC would see the value of courting a solid customer base to support the Chamber member businesses!

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## mmonroe

I'll get to work finding out something...

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## ewoodard

I for one would like to see a major movie theater move in to that location. Something with about 12-15 screens so that we don't have to drive to bricktown, or into OKC to see a decent movie. I believe with new ownership, HP could be an attractive venue for shoppers with a few minor upgrades.

----------


## okcustu

A dream development would be an old fashioned downtown like atmosphere with plenty of two to five story brick buildings for residential, retail, and office space and even relocate the city center I think all would appreciate something classier than the current ones 70s mall look that's my dream

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## route66gal

They were able to bring Penn Square Mall back to life in the 80's with a classy renovation. And Shepard Mall is doing great with offices. I see both as options, but not the renovation they have on their site, I hope city council shoots that one down ! Oh my !

----------


## Bostonfan

I say demolish the place.  Sad? yes.  But I just don't see anything working without wiping the place out and starting over.

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## Lauri101

> They were able to bring Penn Square Mall back to life in the 80's with a classy renovation. And Shepard Mall is doing great with offices. I see both as options, but not the renovation they have on their site, I hope city council shoots that one down ! Oh my !



That's the same "renovation" they've had for almost a year and it's awful - thank goodness it hasn't happened.


As much as I hate to say it, for nostalgic reasons only - Bostonfan is right.  It'd be more useful in it's former incarnation as a dirt bike hangout!

----------


## mmonroe

I forgot to mention awhile back that I called the chamber.  I left my name and number, and NO ONE got back to me... pos.

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## Lauri101

> I forgot to mention awhile back that I called the chamber.  I left my name and number, and NO ONE got back to me... pos.


My point exactly - unless you are a dues-paying member of the MWC C of C, they are not interested in feedback or concerns. Is OKC the same way?

It's not logical, if one were to look at a business model of the functions of a Chamber of Commerce.  It'd be good to hear from a C of C leader, if one lurketh.

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## spaceannie54

I think maybe an Incredible Pizza would be good.
Or offices, with a deli/coffee shop.
Whatcha think?

----------


## mmonroe

Midwest City just seems unique.  We don't have what other places have except what you find on 29th.  Apparently, when you build one big box store, they come as a set.

----------


## oneforone

I think Office Depot may be moving to 29th or at least somewhere new in MWC. A for lease sign went up in front of their store this week. 

Yes, they are still open.

----------


## Bostonfan

> I think Office Depot may be moving to 29th or at least somewhere new in MWC. A for lease sign went up in front of their store this week. 
> 
> Yes, they are still open.


If they are moving, probably would be 29th.  Makes me wonder people have given up on the north side (reno area).  Surprised ACE Hardware is still around.

----------


## oneforone

> If they are moving, probably would be 29th. Makes me wonder people have given up on the north side (reno area). Surprised ACE Hardware is still around.


Ace will hold their own. They have stores all over the place that on their own. I think they are intentionally placing their stores in neighborhoods. People are more likely to go there for quick home repairs before Home Depot or Lowes if the store is right around the corner from the house.

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## Redskin 70

> I think Office Depot may be moving to 29th or at least somewhere new in MWC. A for lease sign went up in front of their store this week. 
> 
> Yes, they are still open.


Nope, got your answer.  Office Depot announced they are closing over 100 stores nation wide  Thats to bad

Bloomberg.com: U.S.

----------


## oneforone

That does not necessarily mean that store is closing or moving. That store does stay fairly busy being it is the only office supply store in the MWC area.

Come to think of it, I think the for lease sign may be for the old Party Galaxy pad site they cleared after it burned down.

----------


## bombermwc

Places like Ace survive because people go to it no matter where it is. It's not a "foot traffic" store. Same goes for Office Depot. You go where ever the building is. It would be a damned shame if that place closed though. I can count of Office Depot for having anything I ever need. It may be more expensive, but I don't have to go in Wally World, and they have computer parts Best Buy doesnt!

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## Lauri101

> Places like Ace survive because people go to it no matter where it is. It's not a "foot traffic" store. Same goes for Office Depot. You go where ever the building is. It would be a damned shame if that place closed though. I can count of Office Depot for having anything I ever need. It may be more expensive, but *I don't have to go in Wally World*, and they have computer parts Best Buy doesnt!


Amen to that!  My dislike of Wally World will send me to more expensive places because my time is worth it! (Not to mention my mood - shopping at WalMart puts me in a bad mood!)

----------


## Bostonfan

just went by the mall.  Keep in mind, it's the night before Christmas Eve, and the place looked like it was closed.  The only part that was lit up was Sears, and there were very few cars on that end.   Seriously, the city needs to come in and take care of it once and for all.  It's no longer just a sad place.  It's now an eye sore and disgrace to the city.  Acres of grass and weeds would look better.......

----------


## masonsmomma

I was in there today. I went to Finish Line and the Game Stop but other than the 5 or 6 stores I don't think there is anything in there. I'm glad that we still have the finish line though, you can get really cheap prices!

----------


## bombermwc

I was in there not long ago to go to Sears and Bath and Body Works...what's so weird is that it feels like all the stores are now concentrated on the Sears end....and they don't really even extend to the middle of the mall now. So we're talking what, 10 stores in the whole place now? I think they even had the lights off on the west end of the mall.

BULLDOZE THE SUCKER!

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## bombermwc

But keep Sears somewhere in MWC please. You can't beat their tools and appliances.

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## LordGerald

HPM needs to return to what it was back in the day.  Prairie.  It could be like Midwest City's little greenbelt.

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## Redskin 70

> But keep Sears somewhere in MWC please. You can't beat their tools and appliances.


I hear that Sears will be moving to the new building development  at Sooner and I-40......................that would still be close enough

----------


## Bostonfan

> I hear that Sears will be moving to the new building development  at Sooner and I-40......................that would still be close enough


Now that is interesting.  Does that mean when they move, HPM will finally get shut down?  I was under the impression Sears was staying no matter what.

----------


## bombermwc

That's definitely an interesting point. They are the only thing keeping the place alive now. Once they move, you know the few stores left will find a new home outside of the mall. Bath and Body Works, Finish Line, and GNC would fit into any shopping center in MWC. All of them are smaller stores that don't really need anything special. Plus they are all places we'd go to no matter where they are located in MWC.

Moving to I-40 and Sooner would be the best thing Sears could do to escape the stigma of the mall. I think most shoppers of Sears would enjoy the location more because the store would be updated and could be redesigned to better fit the way Sears has converted more to hardware than clothing.

----------


## oneforone

If Sears closes I predict the mall will close and be redeveloped as a new shopping center, business park or maybe even a new housing addition.

----------


## metro

LC.tv is hoping to finally build out the former Dillards space they bought last year in the coming year. Maybe that will bring some new life to what's left of the mall.

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## bombermwc

Ugh, can they just sell it so we can bulldoze the place please....

----------


## mmonroe

Yeah, Life Church beat out the smaller church who had a contract to buy the building, signed an agreement with the realtor and Hobby Lobby stores to purchase it, then the realtor sold it to Life Church and totally voiding the contractual agreement.  What a crappy realtor.  ****ty actually.

----------


## xknifexfight

> If Sears closes I predict the mall will close and be redeveloped as a new shopping center, business park or maybe even a new housing addition.


I can see it happening. we have the same thing happening with the mall where i live currently. stores are closing down and the mall is getting empty. seems like the only major stores are there(and sears is one since its an anchor store..more the same with hpm too..) here its like most stores are going to nashville.

if they do get rid of heritage...they should get rid of that whataburger too..their service has always been bad  :Smile:

----------


## etool782

I'm naturally suspicious of anything classified as a church that calls itself a "campus."

The whole production is reminiscent of car dealership infomercials that run on weekend afternoons.

----------


## bombermwc

I'm not a big lifechurch fan either, but hey if it brings folks to church, i'm all for it. Different things work for different people.

This particular deal is very un-christian like though. To steal a building right out from under another congregation. That's completely asshole-ish. Minus a billion points to lifechurch for that one. And what, are the other locations around town not good enough for their own real buildings? Southside is in the freaking Builders Square for crying out loud....now Dillard's.....come on.

----------


## mmonroe

Yeah, I do keep bringing that fact up about LC stealing Dilliards, but it erks me still...  I can't believe they would do that.  I'd like to meet the guy who decides these things.  jerk.

----------


## Martin

> to steal a building right out from under another congregation.


i'm not up to speed on that... who did they 'steal' it from? -M

----------


## bombermwc

If I remember it right, wasn't it the church that was inside the mall for a number of years? I think they were in the old Lerner across from the old Radio Shack.

----------


## BricktownGuy

I think the Heritage site has been consider by several developers as a mixed use site.

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## bombermwc

I hear some folks talking the other day about converting it to office space. It's probably the best solution you could have. Honestly, the building itself is in great condition. It's been used so lightly that there's not much wear and tear on it! LOL! So it could convert to office space pretty easily. We've been in need of honest to goodness just office space on the east side for some time now. People keep building those stupid house-like office buildings and strip malls. Obviously the need is there, we just can't find anyone with enough vision to do what they should....make office space!

So buy the sucker up, get some office tenants (doctor's offices, lawyers, whatever). Next you'll see a food court come back to life to serve those that work inside.

----------


## Lauri101

I wish I could talk GSA into leasing the space for our office.  

IRS "customers" are ill-served by having to search for almost non-existent parking downtown and risk getting towed if they don't get back in time. Handicapped folks have an even harder time.  
And since the IRS won't pay for employee parking, moving to a large ex-retail mall would be a win-win.  Heck - I bet the space would be cheaper than the pricey CBD property.

----------


## mmonroe

> i'm not up to speed on that... who did they 'steal' it from? -M


LC stole it from the smaller church inside the mall called New Life Church.  They had deals with Hobby Lobby to purchase the property and then resell it back to the church for $1.  A week before they were to purchase, contracts already signed, the broker turned around, sold his soul to the devil for a small commission and gave it to LC.  Bastards.

----------


## bombermwc

And then Life Church pretends to be a good christian group, all the while stealing property out from under another church.

----------


## Drake

> LC stole it from the smaller church inside the mall called New Life Church.  They had deals with Hobby Lobby to purchase the property and then resell it back to the church for $1.  A week before they were to purchase, contracts already signed, the broker turned around, sold his soul to the devil for a small commission and gave it to LC.  Bastards.


I admit I have no knowledge of this particular situation, but that doesn't sound like the whole story. There are legal ramifications to backing out of contract if all obligations have been met. 

Plus, it wouldn't be the brokers call. It would be up to the seller to decide to break the contract or not. If the broker has it listed he is going to get paid regardless. Now he might advise his seller that a better offer has come in and seller may choose to act on it. 

I would suspect that the buyer had given some reason or "out" to the seller that they would be able to void the contract and move on to a more capable buyer.

----------


## Thunder

What does Hobby Lobby have to do with the mall?

----------


## Ashley+3

If Sears moves to the new DC shopping center New Life Church could always buy that property....assuming they are still in need.

----------


## ewoodard

I talked to a Sears manager at the mall this past weekend and he said they are not moveing and they own that section of the building. So I don't see them moving to the new DC development.

----------


## TaoMaas

Man, I wish they'd do SOMETHING with Heritage Park Mall.  It's near my house and I'd love to have more shopping options in the area.

----------


## woodyrr

I went to Heritage Park Mall this afternoon for the first time in over a year - maybe two. The empty parking lot should have been a clue, but when I reached center court, I was nothing short of speechless. <Redacted by Author>. Although I didn't wander throughout the mall, I went to Bath and Body Works and it was literally one of the only places left open. The endless darkened hallways lined with shuttered spaces was downright sobering.

Heritage Park Mall was opened my senior year of High School just four years after Crossroads Mall. During that time, Saturday Night Live had a recurring skit about a pet store in a shopping mall that was a victim of the economic malaise that was gripping the country during the late 1970s. I didn't pay too much attention since here in central Oklahoma things weren't as bad as they were elsewhere. Crossroads was bustling, Heritage Park Mall was new and we had just learned that General Motors had announced the construction of a state of the art assembly plant south of Tinker.

I don't have a preference as to what they do with the mall, but if it were my responsibility, I wouldn't be able to sleep soundly at night until I took some kind of action to either fill it with something useful or encourage the remaining tenants to vacate so that I could lock the doors.

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## bombermwc

I was thinking about this when I was at Sears the other day. I don't really remember the last time I was many people buying clothes at Sears but just in case, I had 2 ideas. The main idea is what can we do to vacate the building to make it ready for a new use.

1 - Take Sears out and put it in the old Wal Mart. This would put Sears in a similar square foot building. They already have the auto garage and plenty room for all the stuff the have now.

2 - Put Sears in the old Albertsons....convert it to a Tools/Appliances/Auto/Electronics only facility. Toss the clothes and other stuff. Do people buy this stuff at Sears anymore?

So this way we utilize the other structures near by that have been empty. It also leaves HPM empty for conversion to office space.....something MWC is in need of. If you don't think so, just drive around and check out how many of those awful little house-like single use office buildings are going in everywhere. They are such a horrible and inefficient use of land and resources. The municipal offices could move in and vacate their old strucutre at Reno/Midwest. That would give the Police Dept. room to expand. We've seen how the Fire Dept. has been given the resources to do so, why not give the Police the same?

HPM as a building is in GREAT shape. It just needs some freaking bodies inside. The stores that are left can go in any strip mall in town. When people know where they are, they'll go shopt here. IE, no matter where Bath and Body Works moves to, people will drive to it. Throw in some eateries in the center and make it into an actual food court and then the folks that work in the offices inside, have a place to eat.

----------


## Bostonfan

It's shocking to me that nothing has been done to HPM.  What are the owners waiting on?  This mall has been gone for years, yet you don't hear a peep from them.  They can't be making money, can they?  

Also, something needs to be done with the old Target/WalMart/Albertson's buildings.  What an eyesore.  Any word on this??  

And Bomber, good ideas there, but I don't think Sears is going to make that move.  If they leave, they leave the area.  Why would they move a mile to a worse location?  Reno/Midwest Blvd. is quite bare nowadays.

----------


## fromdust

looks like they are going to renovate the mall.Heritage Park Mall | Shop on the Edge of Midwest City

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## CuatrodeMayo

That looks pretty awful.

I am pretty sure I have seen that rendering for quite a while here and there...a pipe dream, I think.

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## Lauri101

That was posted about two years ago - and two owners ago, I believe

It is so ugly, it'd be embarassing - glad it didn't happen!

----------


## Thunder

OMG, that shocked me!   :Omg: 

What if they are still planning to do that?  If this was updated on the site 2 years ago, then why doesn't it list Dillards as an anchor?  Looks up to date to me.

----------


## gmwise

I was wondering  who the heck owns HPM?
And with the GM troubles  is the news they're building a new line in oklahoma still on?

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## andimthomas

God, that thing is hideous.

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## mireaux

residential? no..theres no point in building new homes if theres no real jobs to be had within a key given radius. gm is gone, and tinker isnt what it was.

shopping? doubtful..at least not at this point. the new shopping center at 29th and air depot is too close in proximity for another to be erected. 

i think the mwc area is in dire new of a new theatre.so they could build like a 16 screen theatre there. the closest ones currently are the ones by crossroads mall (another mall on the way to being defunct as well)

personally, id bulldoze the land and build an ornate japanese garden complete with a small pond spanned over with a moon bridge.

----------


## mireaux

id renovate it to restore it with all the anchors it had back in the mid 1980's..when the mall was at its height of its success.

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## so1rfan

I drove by the mall today and I wonder how long will it be before the city makes them mow. The upkeep on the property must be non existant. They have weeds growing in the cracks in the parking lots. The place looked like an abandoned house.

----------


## oneforone

> I drove by the mall today and I wonder how long will it be before the city makes them mow. The upkeep on the property must be non existant. They have weeds growing in the cracks in the parking lots. The place looked like an abandoned house.


The Sears store does pretty good thier. The wife has been working there for 3 months and makes good money on comission. 

I will agree they need to mow the lawn and tow all of the junk cars on the back side of the mall. There is a retired OCPD patrol car that has been there for months. The driver's side window is busted out and a wheel is missing.

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## okcustu

they actually had the nerve to print up brochures and distribute them as far as Tulsa, embarrassing. It just needs to be razed; malls, in most cases aren't as profitable.

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## mmonroe

Apparently, the City of Midwest City has stepped in to help with getting HP moving in a direction, whatever that direction might be.

----------


## kay

More information here please?  How is MWC stepping in to help mmonroe?  And okcustu who distributed pamphlets?

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## okcustu

I guess the new owners, it was maybe two years ago. It had the fugly renovations that never happened.

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## mmonroe

I'm friends with a gamestop employee.  Stop by HPM and ask them what they know about the City stepping in.  2nd, I remember what you're talking about okcustu, I remember the ugly yellow....  a blight in a community.  Very befitting if we were in mexico and bright colors were a common building standard.  Those renderings made me sick.  I do believe they are still hanging up on the walls near the center entrance to the mall.

----------


## oneforone



----------


## Bostonfan

That's about the number of cars that would be in the parking lot.

----------


## Luke

I lol-ed for real.

If someone actually paid someone else to do those renderings, I need to get in that business.

----------


## scootinger

Heritage Park Mall for sale, owners asking $4.5M for main 211K square foot building.

Heritage Park Mall for sale

----------


## Bostonfan

What 4 stores are still there?

----------


## Luke

Sears, Bath and Bodyworks, GameStop and... a flea market thing maybe?

----------


## usmbubba

I think the A - Z outlet is gone, maybe the gift place across from Bath and Bodyworks or the food place??

----------


## scootinger

According to LoopNet - Heritage Park Mall For Sale, Regional Center/Mall, 6801 E. Reno, Midwest City, OK they are Gamestop, Bath&Body Works, Rainbow, and GNC. (I guess they don't count Sears as a tenant, since they own their own building?)

----------


## bombermwc

GNC is still there

----------


## mmonroe

Lets buy it!

----------


## xd0nn4x

I say, we turn it into a Dave and busters type thing, alcohol and video games, sounds like a winner to me. Or a giant laser tag arena...

yeah i need to grow up.

----------


## Velvetaunt

Here's a suggestion.  Since the Babyboomer is about to retire, things like retirement villages would bring in lots of money for the city.  There could be one medical center to house those that can no longer care for themselves and small cottages for independent living.  All surrounded by grass and trees, with ample parking of course.

I could also see a facility for the needs of senior citizens.  There could be a a pharmacy, a diabetes center, a foot doctor center, a health and nutrition center, doctor offices and walking trails inside, and also a one stop counseling center and a activities center would be good.

I bet a developer could even get government funds to help pay for the project.

Demographics is everything these days - I think Midwest City could support it.

Vel

----------


## bombermwc

There are already a few places in MWC for that.  I can't remember the actual name...Autumn House or whatever, but that 6-7 floor place off Air Depot and Adair is an assisted living center. As well as the place off Air Depot just south of 10th. It looks like a big house, but it's not. These places aren't nursing homes, they are assisted living. 

There are also patio homes off of Douglas near Wonga (Bowling Green area). They aren't assisted living, but they are retirement homes. The condos near Conrad Golf Course are also an option for those that are more mobile.

We do have a huge elderly population in MWC because of the origional mile. But I don't know that you'll convince those folks to move out. They'll stay in their little houses until they pass. We just went through a big bit of convincing my 90 year old grandparents to move to assisted living...and they only agreed because of some falls that caused injury. The older you get, the less cooperative you get with having someone move you.

----------


## bombermwc

Oh anyone else notice that the old Ward's sign blew over? So now, not only do they not mow, but they don't pick up storm damage. I'm starting to hate this place.

----------


## Thunder

> Oh anyone else notice that the old Ward's sign blew over? So now, not only do they not mow, but they don't pick up storm damage. I'm starting to hate this place.


I see that every day I drive by.  I was going to mention it, but you beat me first.  I wonder if the value dropped on the market price to sell?

----------


## kay

Has anyone noticed the facade above the reno entrance is hanging precariously above the entrance?  Yellow tape is supposed to keep people "safe" from falling debri.  I can't imagine the roof is intact from that windstorm.  I say bulldoze it before it falls down.

----------


## dmoor82

> Do it's a dead mall and has been for 10 years. It's a safe mall, but it's dead. There's nothing left except Sears (gotta keep that Craftsman stuff baby)! So what would be put in it's place? I've got two options that I think would work well.
> 
> 1. Residential - just bulldoze the mall and replace it with housing development. Leave the couple of outparcels and Sears and you've got an already graded neighborhood with easy access through all the lights. Plus it provides the needed room for devlopment on the west side of MWC. Other devlopments on Air Depot less than a mile away filled up VERY quickly in what little space there was.
> 
> 2. Mixed Use - there is no office space to speak of left in MWC. The MD Tower and Parklawn have been it for years and we need more. People build these little house looking complexes that use the space very inefficiently. MWC has been in need of more multistory office space for years (as shown by how the hospital has bought many small buildings around town since the space on Parklawn is full). So how about a couple 10 or so floor buildings? Maybe even make one of the a residential tower. MWC is in need of more upscale condo/apt. type developments as shown by Legacy being so popular. So again bulldoze and make some vertical space happen....plus it's always bugged me that Del City's bank tower is taller than anything in MWC, even if it is by only a couple floors....arg!
> 
> Comments?


Well I like # 2,MWC is getting alot of new housing additions and with the Reed cntr. and all the new hotels and also Town Center developments,MWC has come along way in just 10 years!but I would like to see a couple of tall towers there( when I mean tall I mean 10-15 st.)!Either residential or business!

----------


## mmonroe

mmm i love tall buildings.

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## so1rfan

I can remember going through these doors many a time to go the movies. I think I saw Return of the Jedi there.


Sad but true.

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## Thunder

Oh... OH!!!  OH MY GOD!!!!!!   :Omg: 

I've totally forgotten all about those doors.  I used to go thru that a lot for the movie theater just to the right side.  Wow! I forgot that those doors actually existed!

----------


## evh5150

> Has anyone noticed the facade above the reno entrance is hanging precariously above the entrance?  Yellow tape is supposed to keep people "safe" from falling debri.  I can't imagine the roof is intact from that windstorm.  I say bulldoze it before it falls down.


people? what people? people still shop at heritage park mall? ..is there any stores left other than sears?

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## bombermwc

There are a few down near sears. But you can count them on 1 hand.

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## wayward1

i've been in mwc for 34 years...my whole life born and raised...what ever they put there if they do tear the mall down will be fine with me as long as it's not restaurants...jeeze it's like mwc hasnt got enough already.......build a barnes and noble.....build a borders...put in a new movie theatre so i dont have to drive to tinsletown or bricktown...just please no more restaurants......................................u  nless it's a cracker barrell lol

----------


## oneforone

The pizza place and Bath and Body works are gone. The wife talked to the sales staff at B&BW, they said they were closing and moving their staff and stock to Crossroads. They were going to stay until after Christmas but, they have lost too much merchandise to shop lifters and the mall no longer has Security staff. They plan on returning to Midwest City in the future once they find a place that will fit their needs.

I drove by there a couple of days ago and some guy was mowing the lawn with a ratty old push mower. I think it is safe to say that heritage will probably close before the year is out. GNC and Gamestop are the only businesses that are seeing any real traffic. The cell phone stores and the jewelry stores are always dead when I go up there.

Sears does not need the mall to stay in business they hold their own. On most of days that I shop there the mall entrance/exit is closed and locked.

----------


## evh5150

i used to shop at jeans west, get pretzels from pretzel king, visit the pet store, play arcade games at aladdins, ahh..the memories.

anyone remember when service merchandise used to be wilson's?

or the children's traffic safety tests that were conducted by either the police or fire dept, and they set up little tricycles for kiddos to drive like they were cars.

----------


## mugofbeer

Here is a link to a brochure showing an artists rendering of what has been done to a similarly outdated mall that was about a mile from where I lived in Denver.  It is a huge success so far and is in a similar location type and socioeconomic area as MWC.  This is the new type of shopping area cities should be going for.  It kept a Macy's and a Sears store and redeveloped the entire remainder of the old Southglenn Mall.

http://www.albdev.com/images/pics/26...SCbrochure.pdf

(scroll to get to the aerial view)

----------


## oneforone

> Here is a link to a brochure showing an artists rendering of what has been done to a similarly outdated mall that was about a mile from where I lived in Denver. It is a huge success so far and is in a similar location type and socioeconomic area as MWC. This is the new type of shopping area cities should be going for. It kept a Macy's and a Sears store and redeveloped the entire remainder of the old Southglenn Mall.
> 
> http://www.albdev.com/images/pics/26...SCbrochure.pdf
> 
> (scroll to get to the aerial view)


Redevelopments like that are popular in Denver. They did awesome job on what was once Stapleton Airport.

Discover Stapleton | A Sustainable Community Near Downtown Denver

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## mugofbeer

Denver is more urban and higher density than Oklahoma City.  Both the Stapleton and the Lowry redevelopment projects have been highly successful.  Southglenn Mall is similar to Heritage Park or Shephard Malls.  Shephard Mall has been so successful as an employment center that you shouldn't do this unless the employers start to vacate.  Heritage Park, however, could be done in a similar fashion.  I could even see this for Northpark and areas between Chesapeake and the Broadway Extension along 63rd.

----------


## TaoMaas

Someone really needs to revive Heritage Park Mall.  Just yesterday, my wife and I were visiting a friend who lives just down the street from Penn Square Mall.  Part of our Saturday plans were to go to Sears, but instead of fighting the traffic and the crowds at Penn Square, we opted to drive back across town and shop at the MWC Sears close to our home because it's a much more pleasant experience.  What Heritage Park needs, IMHO, is mid-range stores.  Look at who's lasted the longest in that location....Sears and Bath & Body Works.  Plus, look at the surrounding businesses...Ace Hardware...Big Lots...Office Depot.  That should be a huge clue as to what kind of stores can succeed in the mall.

----------


## mugofbeer

> Someone really needs to revive Heritage Park Mall.  Just yesterday, my wife and I were visiting a friend who lives just down the street from Penn Square Mall.  Part of our Saturday plans were to go to Sears, but instead of fighting the traffic and the crowds at Penn Square, we opted to drive back across town and shop at the MWC Sears close to our home because it's a much more pleasant experience.  What Heritage Park needs, IMHO, is mid-range stores.  Look at who's lasted the longest in that location....Sears and Bath & Body Works.  Plus, look at the surrounding businesses...Ace Hardware...Big Lots...Office Depot.  That should be a huge clue as to what kind of stores can succeed in the mall.


I think that is why the appeal of malls has gone and the outdoor "Town center" concept has taken over.  They are more flexible in that they can handle both big-box discounters as well as smaller, boutique types of stores - satisfying the needs/desires of both types of shoppers.

With the Southglenn Mall in Denver, they left the Sears on one end and the Macy's on the other and tore everything else down and rebuilt it in the 'Town Center" concept with retail, apartments and condos.  It has big box chains as well as smaller stores.  In the center is a great new movie theater and around the edges are retail pad sites for small retail squares and restaurants.

----------


## wayward1

heritage park mall should be replaced by a kick ass movie theatre....when i go on a date i'll take her to bricktown or tinsletown but theres lots of times i'd love to just drive around the corner and go to a movie when i'm bored......we should start a petition and have people write letters to the mayor of midwest city requesting this....the last thing midwest city needs is more restaurants or stores..theres plenty.................we need a movie theatre..

----------


## mmonroe

It would have to be ten times better than the Warren.  The only problem with that area is that we have no connecting areas to main travel ways.  ie Highways or connecting points of interests.  If we could get some sort of line going down Reno of interesting connected buildings, we could probably have a great movie theater.  Otherwise you have an island of interest that can't really be supported by the local crowd itself.  

Did that make sense?

----------


## oneforone

The mall stores are down to GNC, Gamestop, Rainbow(an urban clothing store), GiftWorld (a Flea Market Gift Store), a cell phone center aisle kiosk, a jewelry center aisle Kiosk. 

I was there on Saturday. A small group of people were at the cell phone store and there was a small crowd at game stop. The rest of the stores were dead. Sears is the only place with high traffic.

I predict the mall stores will close with in the next couple of months. It looks as if they are waiting for the remaining stores to finsh their leases. The interior lights were turned off and it appears no real effort is being made to correct the repairs from the storm damage pictured in a prior post.

The old Ward's garage is full of broken down cars. Rumor has it the cars belong to the owner of the Ward's store who also owns an auto shop in Midwest City or somewhere nearby.

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## bombermwc

As long as we dont lose Sears, I don't care what happens to the mall. Sears has too much good stuff in the way of appliances, tools, auto.

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## oneforone

> As long as we dont lose Sears, I don't care what happens to the mall. Sears has too much good stuff in the way of appliances, tools, auto.


I was in there the other day and I talked to one of the managers. He said 
the company officers were in the store just a few weeks ago, they loved the store and loved the fact they were still cranking out great sales numbers in a dead mall. 

I will be really suprised if they ever move that store. They have way too many regulars that like the slow pace and great selection. The low overhead allows them to compete with other retailers in the area.  

If you love tools like I do, stop by frequently. I have got some killer deals on cordless drills and tool combo kits on closeout. You have to ask the clerks to help you find them because they are not always marked. Kathy and Debbi always take good care of me every time I am in there.

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## Thunder

I've always wonder how in the world they crank out great sales numbers when every time I drive by, Sears' parking lots is barely having any cars.  I take in account that most of those cars are owned by employees, so it is odd they crank out such numbers.

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## Luke

I spoke to the GameStop guys a while back and they said that the Heritage Park GameStop was one of the higher revenue stores in the metro.  Interesting.

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## evh5150

> I spoke to the GameStop guys a while back and they said that the Heritage Park GameStop was one of the higher revenue stores in the metro.  Interesting.




makes sense...THERES NOTHING TO DO IN MWC! ..no: arcade, movie theatre, mall. even the local skate rink that 20 years ago was somewhat decent has turned into a haven for hoodrats and wanna-be gangbangers. Even Walmart has packed-up its store and left town (that one on 23rd street feels a bit too Spencer-ish)

The town is a delapitated dump-thanks in large by the recent departure of its adjacent GM plant. Its only saving grace at this point is the scant few eateries and shops along the 29th street revitalization effort.

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## oneforone

> I've always wonder how in the world they crank out great sales numbers when every time I drive by, Sears' parking lots is barely having any cars. I take in account that most of those cars are owned by employees, so it is odd they crank out such numbers.


Simple.... Big Ticket Items. They make a killing on appliances, hand tools, lawn mowers and lawn tractors. Electronics, housewares and clothing keep them going during the slow months for the big ticket items.

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## bombermwc

Wow evh, i don't think anyone could have come up with a more sterotypical and ABSOLUTELY WRONG evaluation of Midwest City. Thanks for showing how little you know about MWC and promptly speaking out of your butt.

I'm not sure how many times I have to repeat this about Wal-Mart. They wanted to convert the one at Midwest to a super center much like the old one in Stillwater...basically add a food center on one end. MWC said no because the lot wasn't big enough to provide enough parking spots to meet the requirement per square foot of space. They have that requirement so people don't park in other store's lots. Wal-Mart COULD have bought up Albertson's, but instead, they chose to go to Del City and buy up cheaper land to build a fully new (and nicer) store. The one on 23rd is actually much more quiet than the one in Del City. There are fewer people so you can find what you need much easier. 

Now, we have an opporunity in Heritage, if someone would just DO IT.

Dillard's is taken by Life Church. BUT we've still got Wards and Service Merchadise that we could get converted into a new theatre. Or even better yet. Bulldoze the middle of the mall...leave the Sears and start over. Put in the theater and some small shops in a town center style layout. Much like what was suggested from the Denver project. There are PLENTY stores that haven't made it to MWC yet, but with Town Center, we're attracting stores that don't exist elsewhere in the metro...especially restaurants. 

THere are soooooo many thigns that COULD be done there. UGH@

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## Thunder

bombermwc, actually Walmart wanted to build on the new 29th street shopping plaza and MWC said no.  MWC did not want Walmart to relocate there, so Walmart decided to seek revenge by giving Del City the business.

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## Luke

> ...but instead, they chose to go to Del City and buy up cheaper land to build a fully new (and nicer) store.


The Del City walmart is one of the highest revenue super walmarts in the nation, too.  So, it worked out for everyone.

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## Thunder

> The Del City walmart is one of the highest revenue super walmarts in the nation, too.  So, it worked out for everyone.


Hell yeah! I enjoyed working there 7 months when it first opened.  The news that we all kept getting that the store was #1!  Now, it's one of the top.  It's a surprise what Del City can do.

I remember that for a while, everyone was authorized OVERTIME even tho it was before Christmas (way before).  This one lady worked about 3 weeks straight with no days off, so she took advantage of that.

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## TaoMaas

> Bulldoze the middle of the mall...leave the Sears and start over. Put in the theater and some small shops in a town center style layout.


 +1  What do we lack in MWC?  We need a theater and a bookstore.  Add in a restaurant which has some after-hours action and an outside access and the mall will pay for itself.

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## oneforone

> bombermwc, actually Walmart wanted to build on the new 29th street shopping plaza and MWC said no. MWC did not want Walmart to relocate there, so Walmart decided to seek revenge by giving Del City the business.


You forgot to mention the reason why MWC fought a the 29th Street Wal-Mart. At one point they were going to build it on the Oklahoma City side of 29th and Douglas. Midwest City try to convice Oklahoma City to de-annex the land to them so they would not lose the tax dollars. In the end Oklahoma City denied to de-annex the area.

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## bombermwc

Thunder, I'm not sure where you heard that, but it's not true. Wal-Mart wouldn't have been interested...not to mention the fact there isn't and wasn't a parcel for them in that plan. Target has always been the plan because their building was bought by the hospital many years ago. Remember the hospital group is the one that actually built Town Center...not the city. It's money from the sell of MRMC back in the 90's. Target had an understanding and followed through with it...Wal-Mart wasn't involved.

Wal-Mart did, however, have plans on 29th, farther east as oneforone mentioned. There was also supposed to be an Integris hospital built in the same area. That area has been contested over for decades, which is why nothing is developing there and we're stuck with the Frog Pond and the DHS or whatever that is.

Wal-Mart built where it made the most sense...and everyone won. Does MWC really miss Wal-Mart...not really. They more than made up for it in the increase in sale dollars from Town Center compared to the previous taxes on the structures that used to be there.

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## Thunder

It was what I was told by a friend that worked in the old store and confirmed by coworkers in the new store.  Still, our reports on here is similiar.

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## bombermwc

Well we all know how reliable a store employee is....My source is from the city, so I'm going to stick with that.

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## gmwise

I would like to suggest a large green lightly wooden park.
its sad to see the whatabuger is doing better then the whole mall.

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## dances with cameras

I find it amazing that the storm damage at Heritage Park Mall (at El Chico) hasnt' been tended to at all.  I was there a couple weeks ago just to see what was still open, and all that was there was a little yellow tape. 

OOPPS, hey kid, sorry you got hit in the head with a ceiling beam.  Didn't you see the LITTLE YELLOW TAPE?  

Could be a good thing, though.  The more of an eyesore HPM becomes, the more (hopefully) the city can become involved.

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## gmwise

Dances:  be careful  some will decried the government telling the property owners how to "enjoy" their property, or how its earning a income...lol

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## easternobserver

if property owners were responsible then the government wouldnt have to get involved.  unfortunately, many property owners are slugs who are all too happy to milk money out of their investments and then leave behind dilapidated eyesores that do nothing but bring down the rest of the community.

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## evh5150

> Wow evh, i don't think anyone could have come up with a more sterotypical and ABSOLUTELY WRONG evaluation of Midwest City. Thanks for showing how little you know about MWC and promptly speaking out of your butt.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, we have an opporunity in Heritage, if someone would just DO IT.
> 
> Dillard's is taken by Life Church. BUT we've still got Wards and Service Merchadise that we could get converted into a new theatre. Or even better yet. Bulldoze the middle of the mall...leave the Sears and start over.


nice suggestion you got there. so i guess when the crowds exit the theatres they can peruse the mall for sales on,..umm...,.uh..lets see here....video games?, handsoap?,dietary supplement pills? or cheap threads at rainbow?. of course, theres always sears in case those other stores dont appeal to them.

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## evh5150

> I was in there the other day and I talked to one of the managers. He said 
> the company officers were in the store just a few weeks ago, they loved the store and loved the fact they were still cranking out great sales numbers in a dead mall. 
> 
> I will be really suprised if they ever move that store. They have way too many regulars that like the slow pace and great selection. The low overhead allows them to compete with other retailers in the area.  
> 
> If you love tools like I do, stop by frequently. I have got some killer deals on cordless drills and tool combo kits on closeout. You have to ask the clerks to help you find them because they are not always marked. Kathy and Debbi always take good care of me every time I am in there.


mr. witherspoon has been working in appliances for over 25 years, hes a large reason for heritage sears' success in their big ticket items.. white man of tall staure, black haired, father of two, went to school with his son, steven. of course, bombermwc thinks i know diddle bout mwc, so well just let her go on thinking that.

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## gmwise

> if property owners were responsible then the government wouldnt have to get involved.  unfortunately, many property owners are slugs who are all too happy to milk money out of their investments and then leave behind dilapidated eyesores that do nothing but bring down the rest of the community.


I was being sarcastic in my comment. :K Bunny:

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## TaoMaas

> mr. witherspoon has been working in appliances for over 25 years, hes a large reason for heritage sears' success in their big ticket items.. white man of tall staure, black haired, father of two, went to school with his son, steven. of course, bombermwc thinks i know diddle bout mwc, so well just let her go on thinking that.


  Hmmm...we bought our appliances there because Sears had the best quality, best price, closest to our home.  I may or may not have met Mr. Witherspoon. lol

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## kevinpate

Maybe Sears ought to expand its space and its offerings.  Doesn't sound much like folks hit the mall for many other reasons anyway.

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## BricktownGuy

Its for sale... so maybe something will happen? lol

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## oneforone

> Thunder, I'm not sure where you heard that, but it's not true. Wal-Mart wouldn't have been interested...not to mention the fact there isn't and wasn't a parcel for them in that plan. Target has always been the plan because their building was bought by the hospital many years ago. Remember the hospital group is the one that actually built Town Center...not the city. It's money from the sell of MRMC back in the 90's. Target had an understanding and followed through with it...Wal-Mart wasn't involved.
> 
> Wal-Mart did, however, have plans on 29th, farther east as oneforone mentioned. There was also supposed to be an Integris hospital built in the same area. That area has been contested over for decades, which is why nothing is developing there and we're stuck with the Frog Pond and the DHS or whatever that is.
> 
> Wal-Mart built where it made the most sense...and everyone won. Does MWC really miss Wal-Mart...not really. They more than made up for it in the increase in sale dollars from Town Center compared to the previous taxes on the structures that used to be there.


MWC still has a Wal-Mart. The store at 23rd and Douglas is in MWC limits. 

the MWC line ends just past the Wal-Mart.

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## oneforone

Rumor has it that the mall itself has a serious mold problem. It's to the point to where a major renovation will have to take place to get rid of it.  

If that is the case, the mall will probably see the wrecking ball as soon as some purchases it.

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## kd5ili

Not only is it for sale, but the price has been reduced:

LoopNet - Heritage Park Mall For Sale, Regional Center/Mall, 6801 E. Reno, Midwest City, OK

At $3,750,000 or $17.77 per square foot, it may be a better deal as land rather than a structure. This property has been listed on deadmalls.com for years now (Dead Malls dot Com: Feature: Heritage Park Mall: Midwest City, Oklahoma), and to be honest with all of the development south along I-40, and the demise of shopping venues along Reno (Wal-Mart, Target, etc), I don't see this coming back as a retail development.

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## bombermwc

EV - I'm a he...not a her. And I've never seen that person in Sears. I always buy from one of two ladies in the appliances department. So whether he is ther or not means nothing to me. And I can say that I'm sure one person does NOT sustain a store. Corporations mine data and would see if that were true...close the store....and move him to another one.

And the movie theater idea is a way to start spurring development. Of course it's empty now...a blind person could tell you that. The idea is to come up with something that could bring some life back. But thanks for your helpful comments on the matter. Your insight is so great....uh yeah. Much as your Wal-Mart views....and I know the other one is in MWC, my points were regarding the Del City store. The one on 23rd is a seperate devleopment that was in the works independantly for long before the other one.

Now that we know it's got mold problems, that might be the best thing that we could have ever heard. Like kd said, at $17 sft, it's primed to be demoed....thank goodness. Once it's gone (and remember that doesn't mean that Dillard's or Sears will go because they are not owned by the mall....they are independant stores that are simply connected by a doorway), we stand a chance of something going back in. Or even an empty lot would be better than the half beat up crapfest that is the mall.

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## woodyrr

I went to HPM today to get some more soap in a bottle, but Bath and Body Works is gone. Knowing that it was probably the last time that I would ever be in the mall, I walked the length of it. It's funny. I was around when it opened and spent many an evening there when it was standing room only.

Somebody please turn out the lights and lock the doors.

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## wayward1

to the guy who said wal mart on 23rd st is too spencer ish......it has a midwest city address...it is a midwest city wal mart.....if you would just drive morth on douglas you would see the spencer city line is halfway down the road north of wal mart....it was built there(and yes they wanted on 29th further east of target) to bring in the crowds from spencer,jones,choctaw,harrah, etc...alot of people travel 23rd on the way to work and home......i know an assistant manager of wal mart...and from what she heard was one reason they built the one in del city was the fact they had had nothing like wal mart or sears or target to bring in more money and they were whining about it.....thats just what i heard.

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## wayward1

mr witherspoon ha ha

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## Thunder

wayward1, you sure are taking an awfully long time to resize your avatar.

Yes, the WM on 23rd is in MWC, but the person said "feels Spencer-ish"...

You do understand it, right?  When I'm out there, it DOES feel like it is a part of Spencer, just because of its close promity and the FEEL of "small town country" out there.

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## bombermwc

We're still confusing these two projects as part of one origional project....which they weren't. The Wal-Mart on 23rd was conceived as a wallyworld for 23rd. It was never envisioned to replace the old MWC one. They are complete different projects. Del City didn't have anything similar, so they offered the help to get that project done. MWC didn't offer as much help because they weren't focussed on Wal-Mart. They were already getting one on 23rd, and didn't feel they needed to focus on Wal-Mart when Town Center was developing so well. Do they regret it, maybe. The Del City store creates a lot of tax dollars, but I gurantee MWC has netted far more out of Town Center.

You can read further back if you want to see the timeline of each store and how they AREN'T RELATED. And again, a store employee is the last person in the line to know the real story of what goes on...and that's on purpose. Store employees (manager or not) aren't told what's going on...nor do they need to know.

But let's focus back on HPM since that's what the thread is for. 

I did notice that they finally removed the hanging pieces of wood on the main entrance. So at least something was done. But now we're down to how many real stores? 2? Really GNC is all that's left and it's only a matter of time before they leave. So we're counting the months now folks. Can we all cross our fingers that once their lease is up, that the place will go? 

Check out the layout here. LifeChurch and Sears could EASILY survive as islands if the mall is taken out. Doze the place and start over!!!

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## Jesseda

whats left inside the mall?

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## woodyrr

> whats left inside the mall?


The other day I recall: A game store, a clothing store, a vitamin store, and a cell phone kiosk. Oh, and the most appealing thing of the whole darn place was the children's play area way down at the Dillard's end of the dark, hot cavernous expanse.

I repeat myself: Please, somebody turn off the lights and lock the doors!

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## kevinpate

Don't write it off completely.  if the folks in another thread are right, some peeps in Crossroads will need a place to go at some point.

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## woodyrr

I stopped by Crossroads yesterday in search of soap. It's in pretty bad shape as well. At least they had the security guys driving around the lot in their van with the blinky lights and an off duty OCPD officer at the information desk. I was on my way to meeting so I didn't walk the mall, but next time I'll get a better idea of how many boarded up stores they have - sad.

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## Centerback

Ikea

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## Sooner2003

I wish the car repair place at the edge of air depot and reno on the outskirts of the mall would move along as well. Nothing against ma-and-pop places like that but after many years with little improvement to provide curb apeal, I think it's time to go. I could easily see a pond being built there with a fountain and a spread of commercial suites behind it. You could also put in at least 20-30 houses on the outer ring facing back into the Cleveland Bailey Elementary School neighborhood. I can envision this so easily if I had the startup capital I would make it happen myself!

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## MJM sleepy

You need to "MOVE ALONG".

That car repair /station was there WAY before a mall was there & guess what ,it's still there.

It's not their fault MWC has became a shell of its former self & is now a shooting gallery/ hoodlum fest in that part of town.

MWC should welcome ANY business in that part of town that can somehow stay in business and stay afloat .

No retail outlet is dumb enough to come into that part of town except the 2-bit places like BIG LOTS.  

The only reason Aaron's is making it is it's near impossible to shoplift a couch and a TV.

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## bombermwc

Really? So all the other businesses in the area are crap huh? I just will not understand why anyone feels like this is a bad area. There aren't any abandoned buildings....not one. Pep Boys is being converted to something, and it was the only empty place around. Let's go through the list, shall we?

Del Rancho / Popoeys - It's Basil now and it's more sucessful than anything else that was ever there.
Captain D's - It's a very nice looking State Farm insurance office, way better looking.
K-Mart - Anthony's, which is doing just fine there.
Pep Boys - It's being convereted to a medical facility, short-term rehab or something like that
Circuit City - It's been a Goodwill facility for years and years now. I don't understand the issue people have with this place...if you don't want to shop there...don't.

OK, so find the empty store there in the list that makes this a dead zone. I don't see one anywhere. 

And FYI - Big Lots is the same junk you'll find at a normal store...just cheaper, so don't act like you're above it because you buy the same junk. I bought 2 Zero-Gravity chairs at Big lots for $35 each while on the same weekend, Kohl's was selling the same EXACT chair for $99. Tell me why Big Lots is crap again?

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## kevinpate

bombermwc, I don't know much about your community, other than I've met some nice folks from there over the years.  
FWIW, what you've laid out does seem far removed from a dead zone.

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## Lauri101

bombermwc - I agree.  I think that the hulking mass of the former HPM is what leads to the overall perception.  I've shopped at almost all of the above - just haven't tried Basil yet. 
And don't forget Office Depot - a lot better prices/selection than WallyWorld for most office supplies.  Not at all dead, but could use some cleanup and bulldozer on NW corner of AD/Reno.

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## Thunder

Basil is basically dead.  I never see any traffic there.

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## TaoMaas

Westlake Ace Hardware does pretty good over there.  And Pelican's and Checkerboard Cafe seem to have plenty of customers.

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## bombermwc

Thunder, then you aren't looking. Ever been around on a sunday afternoon either? You can't even find a table. It's actually doing just fine....why am I not surprised you would be the one offering the opposite view...which happens to be inaccurate...hmm.

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## Thunder

I go by every Sunday between 4:30 and 5:00, still empty over there.

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## metro

> I go by every Sunday between 4:30 and 5:00, still empty over there.


I'm not a MWC fan by any means, but come on Thunder that's the deadest time for ANY restaurant. Hardly anyone eats during that time frame. Most restaurants are busy during lunch and dinner hours, not the in between hours.

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## Redskin 70

Well, though not a MWC person, I do not think that intersection nor the area around it is any  where near dead.  Still lots of potential and I really like the new Checkerboard restaurant.
Sears will always get my business

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