# OKCpedia > Businesses & Employers >  Oklahoma business energy news

## ou48A

This is a pretty good indication of the new oil & NG production growth in this part of Oklahoma. 
 The Mississippian Lime formation is providing wealth creating employment & investment opportunities for thousands.
Over time, this formation will provide Billions of dollars in new tax revenue to state and local governments.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Plains...50647.html?x=0
HOUSTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Plains All American Pipeline, L.P. (NYSE:PAA) today announced it is converting an existing Oklahoma liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) pipeline into crude oil service. The pipeline, which extends from Medford, Okla. to PAA’s crude oil terminal facility in Cushing, Okla., will provide an initial crude oil throughput capacity of 12,000 barrels per day by January 2012 and will be expanded to 25,000 barrels per day by July 2012. 

“Converting and expanding this pipeline provides timely take-away capacity for growing crude oil production in the Mississippian Lime formation in northern Oklahoma and southern Kansas,” said Harry N. Pefanis, President and COO of Plains All American. “This project extends our commitment to service Mississippian producers and is one of a number of projects PAA is progressing to service the growing infrastructure needs in this area and multiple resource plays throughout North America.” 

PAA owns a network of approximately 16,000 miles of liquids pipelines, approximately 90 million barrels of liquids storage capacity and handles more than 3 million barrels of physical product on a daily basis.

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## Bellaboo

OU48A -

I have an interest in 480 acres of minerals just a few miles north of the Cimmaron river and  east of I-35. Western Payne county.

Any chances this area is part of the ML formation ?

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## ou48A

> OU48A -
> 
> I have an interest in 480 acres of minerals just a few miles north of the Cimmaron river and  east of I-35. Western Payne county.
> 
> Any chances this area is part of the ML formation ?


I’m honestly not sure but there could be other possibilities for your acreage.

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## Bellaboo

> I’m honestly not sure but there could be other possibilities for your acreage.


We've had a well on a part of it since 1980. Still puts out about a barrel a day after all these years.  Red fork sand formation they say.

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## ou48A

> We've had a well on a part of it since 1980. Still puts out about a barrel a day after all these years.  Red fork sand formation they say.


Right now frac cost are high and there is a very long waiting list but maybe someday if rates come down and oil prices stay up they might consider a frac job for your well. Good luck

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## ou48A

This is great news.

Oklahoma's Continental Resources is the largest single player in the Bakken - with 500 wells - and it could possibly triple that number in five years

Read more: http://missoulian.com/business/local...#ixzz1h2Ze5ZaJ

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## ou48A

Continental Resources (NYSE: CLR  ), who announced today its production increased 57% in the past year.

This phenomenal growth means Continental Resources will continue to grow its presents in OKC and will become a bigger part of the community.

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## ou48A

> Continental Resources (NYSE: CLR  ), who announced today its production increased 57% in the past year.
> 
> This phenomenal growth means Continental Resources (CLR) will continue to grow its presents in OKC and will become a bigger part of the community.


The NYSE loved the CLR report today.

 It closed at $82.47 up $ 8.24 (+11.10%)

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## ou48A

Sand Ridge to by Dynamic Offshore Resources

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11397...u-to-know.html

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## OKCisOK4me

If you have any interest, you should check out Gulfport Energy.  In 2010, in The Oklahoman, they were the #7 rated business in the state of Oklahoma, in 2011, they shot to #2.

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## ou48A

Since there are several Oklahoma companies and plenty of Oklahoma’s actively involved in this oil play this show tonight might be interesting.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/46167125

Premieres Monday, February 6th 9p | 12a ET

The epicenter of an oil rush is in Williston, North Dakota. CNBC’s Brian Shactman is on the ground for an inside-look at a town like no other in America, overflowing with growth, jobs and opportunity. The once quiet town sits on top of one of the largest oil deposits ever found in North America and the process known as fracking is turning that enormous oil reserve into cold hard cash.

CNBC cameras capture both incredible growth and the serious growing pains that come with it, exposing a small town bursting at the seams. Boomtown is under immense pressure, crushed by truck traffic, plagued by lagging infrastructure, and shocked by a surge in violent crimes. But the biggest threat is the controversy surrounding what goes on underground. From worries over contaminated ground water to concerns about earthquakes, all over the country fracking is making news and taking serious heat. Will regulation aimed at fracking derail Williston? Brian Shactman goes beyond the headlines inside the real story of an American oil rush.

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## ou48A

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...etsNews&rpc=43
Plains line could boost supply to Cushing by 175,000 bpd

* Plains signs deal with SandRidge Energy to transport crude

* New line to serve Mississippian Lime shale oil play in OK.

NEW YORK, Feb 7 (Reuters) - Plains All American will build a new crude oil pipeline from a booming U.S. shale oil play to the largest U.S. oil hub at Cushing, Oklahoma, the company said on Tuesday, potentially boosting Cushing deliveries by 175,000 barrels per day (bpd).

The new line is expected to start up in mid-2013, Houston-based Plains said. It will transport crude pumped by producer SandRidge Energy, a major acreage holder in the up-and-coming Mississippian Lime shale play, which spans Oklahoma and Southern Kansas.

The pipeline is a huge expansion of a project Plains first announced last December, known as the Medford-to-Cushing line. Altogether, the new pipeline system will run 170 miles from near Alva, Oklahoma to Cushing, the delivery point for the NYMEX benchmark WTI crude contract.

Plains earlier plans had called for a modest flow of up to 25,000 bpd into Cushing, while the planned expansion could boost Cushing-bound capacity by seven times that volume.

The Plains announcement comes at a time when many oil producers in the U.S. Midcontinent have been seeking to ship oil away from Cushing and toward regions, such as the U.S. Gulf Coast, where crude commands a hefty premium to Cushing prices.

Light crude in the Gulf Coast has been trading around $10 a barrel higher than at Cushing, where outbound pipeline capacity it limited.

Enterprise Product Partners is working to reverse the 150,000 bpd Houston-to-Cushing Seaway pipeline by the middle of 2012, to siphon more crude away from big crude hub.

A glut of crude in the Midwest, largely due to increasing Canadian crude imports and growing shale oil production in North Dakota and other shale plays, has driven regional price disparities. Cushing tanks have been holding around 30 million barrels of crude, according to Department of Energy data.

In December, SandRidge announced it entered a $1 billion joint venture with Spanish oil major Repsol YPF to develop acreage it holds in the Mississippian play in Western Kansas. At the time, SandRidge said it had already drilled more than 195 wells in the play.

Plains said it could extend the new pipeline project northward from Oklahoma into Kansas if demand warrants further construction.

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## ou48A

Good news for DVN
http://www.rigzone.com/news/article....=115196&hmpn=1
HOUSTON - Devon Energy Corp. will increase its oil production by 20% in 2012 as the independent oil and gas producer joins its peers in fleeing a weak natural gas market.

Devon and other oil and gas producers have scaled back their gas production activities as prices for the commodity have fallen to their lowest point in a decade. New drilling technology has helped lead to a glut in natural gas supply that has pushed prices to $2.50 a million British thermal unit, down from nearly $14 in July 2008.

"We're focused on oil opportunities," Devon Chief Executive John Richels said during a call with investors. "In 2012, virtually all of our capital will be directed to our oil and liquids-rich project areas."

Devon budgeted up to $5.5 billion for capital expenditure projects for 2012, down nearly a quarter from 2011. About 90% of that will be spent increasing acreage holdings or drilling activity in liquids-heavy fields, Richels said.

Devon said for 2012 it will invest $1 billion in the Permian Basin in west Texas and New Mexico, $950 million in the Barnett shale formation in East Texas, and $870 million in the Cana field in west Oklahoma. Devon spent about $400 million the fourth quarter acquiring acres in the sprawling Utica shale in the Midwest and another undisclosed area.

The company said it was particularly excited by the results of test wells it drilled in the Mississippi Lime, a limestone formation stretching through Kansas and Oklahoma. The company plans to have 50 wells drilled in the formation in 2012 after a test well produced 590 barrels of oil equivalent a day that were "some of the best quality crude oil in the lower 48," according to David Hager, Devon's vice president of exploration and production.

Devon's production in natural gas wells for 2012 will decrease "slightly" as it stops investing in wells of that type. It still expects its overall natural gas production to stay steady as it captures the natural gas trapped in oil wells.

Devon will also boost its quarterly dividend by 18%, to 20 cents a share, Richels said

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## Pete

> natural gas supply that has pushed prices to $2.50 a million British thermal unit, down from nearly $14 in July 2008.


Wow, I had no idea it was that bad.

At the same time, oil prices have gone through the roof.

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## adaniel

At my company, nearly all projects we get are now oil wells. Thank god for that or else we would be screwed right now. 

Any nat gas wells that are being drilled right now are just an attempt to save leases and keep the losses to a minimum.

Gas fields that produces "dry gas", as in, gas with no corresponding condensates or oil, are winding down.

I know quite a few newish gas wells are being shut in out in Western OK. The Fort Worth portion of the Barnett Shale in Texas, for the most part, is done until gas gets back up.

Its a bit concerning given the fact many of these wells aren't forecast to recoup their costs for another 4-5 years, and that was made w/ a price projection of $4-5/mcf. Also, keep in mind OK gas generally sells less than the well known NYMEx spot price.

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## ou48A

> Wow, I had no idea it was that bad.
> 
> At the same time, *oil prices have gone through the roof*.


Crude is still trading well below its record peak of $145 that occurred in the summer of 2008.
By the following December WIT had fallen to about $30.28 a barrel,


*“Ten of the last 11 recessions were preceded by oil price hikes”*

http://reason.org/news/show/oil-pric...-the-recession

 There seems to be a 6 to 9 month lag time before it shows up with higher unemployment statistics.



Currently Brent Crude is trading at about $120 and is believed by some analyst to be approaching demand destruction levels.

WTI  crude trades at a significant discount at about $102

Because of a lack of pipeline transportation capacity Bakken crude has been trading for as low as $71 in recent weeks. As a result the average price of gasoline in Wyoming is $2.90 right now.
http://www.businessweek.com/finance/...-02142012.html

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## blangtang

> Good news for DVN
> 
> "We're focused on oil opportunities," Devon Chief Executive John Richels said during a call with investors. "In 2012, virtually all of our capital will be directed to our oil and liquids-rich project areas."
> 
> Devon budgeted up to $5.5 billion for capital expenditure projects for 2012, down nearly a quarter from 2011. About 90% of that will be spent increasing acreage holdings or drilling activity in liquids-heavy fields, Richels said.
> 
> Devon said for 2012 it will invest $1 billion in the Permian Basin in west Texas and New Mexico, $950 million in the Barnett shale formation in East Texas, and $870 million in the Cana field in west Oklahoma. *Devon spent about $400 million the fourth quarter acquiring acres in the sprawling Utica shale in the Midwest and another undisclosed area.*
> 
> Devon will also boost its quarterly dividend by 18%, to 20 cents a share, Richels said


Saw an interview last night with the Richels guy and he said they are acquiring 3-500,000 acres in a new play but would not divulge where this new play was.

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## ou48A

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Contin...33016.html?x=0

OKLAHOMA CITY, Feb. 22, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Continental Resources, Inc. (NYSE: CLR - News) reported EBITDAX of $411.9 million for the fourth quarter of 2011, an 86 percent increase over EBITDAX for the fourth quarter of 2010. The Company attributed the EBITDAX growth to strong oil and natural gas production growth.

Continental's production averaged 75,219 Boepd (barrels of oil equivalent per day) for the fourth quarter of 2011, a 57 percent increase over production of 48,034 Boepd for the fourth quarter of 2010. Crude oil accounted for 72 percent of Continental's fourth quarter 2011 total production.
"With this momentum, we now expect to grow production in a range of 37 percent to 40 percent for the year," Mr. Hamm said

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## OKCTalker

> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Contin...33016.html?x=0
> 
> OKLAHOMA CITY, Feb. 22, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Continental Resources, Inc. (NYSE: CLR - News) reported EBITDAX of $411.9 million for the fourth quarter of 2011, an 86 percent increase over EBITDAX for the fourth quarter of 2010. The Company attributed the EBITDAX growth to strong oil and natural gas production growth.


EBITDA I've got - what's the X at the end?

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## ou48A

> EBITDA I've got - what's the X at the end?


I don’t know what the X means?
Maybe one of the boards more experienced / enlighten posters could inform us?

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## FRISKY

> I don’t know what the X means?
> Maybe one of the boards more experienced / enlighten posters could inform us?


It stands for "eXploration expenses."

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## ou48A

> It stands for "eXploration expenses."


Thanks

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## ou48A

This is a good indication of good drilling results in the areas mentioned.

http://www.ogj.com/articles/2012/02/...-pipeline.html

HOUSTON, Feb. 21 
02/21/2012 
By Christopher E. Smith 
OGJ Pipeline Editor 

SemGroup Corp., Gavilon Group LLC unit Gavilon Midstream Energy LLC, and a unit of Chesapeake Energy Corp. plan to form a joint venture to build a 210-mile pipeline in western and north-central Oklahoma. The line will transport oil to a 1 million bbl storage facility in Cushing. The companies described the project as meeting growing midstream requirements resulting from drilling activity in western Oklahoma and the Mississippi Lime play.

The pipeline will consist of two laterals, one starting near Alva in Woods County, Okla., and the other near Arnett in Ellis County, Okla. The laterals will intersect near Cleo Springs in Major County, Okla., where the pipeline will increase in diameter and continue east to storage at Cushing.

The pipeline will have an initial capacity of 140,000 b/d, expandable to 180,000 b/d through additional horsepower. SemGroup will design, build, and operate the pipeline; Chesapeake is the project’s anchor shipper; and Gavilon will perform risk management and clear the shipped crude in the Cushing market.

The companies plan to begin building the pipeline in July for an in-service date of third-quarter 2013.

SemGroup unit SemCrude LP last year contracted to build 1.95 million bbl of additional crude oil storage at its Cushing terminal to service expanded flows from the Denver-Julesburg basin on its White Cliffs Pipeline

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## ou48A

TransCanada Corporation announces that the Cushing to U.S. Gulf Coast portion of the Keystone XL will be constructed due to significant increased crude oil production. 

This is very good news for Oklahoma.

http://transcanada.com/5966.html

TransCanada Corporation (TSX, NYSE: TRP) (TransCanada) announced today it has sent a letter to the U.S. Department of State (DOS) informing the Department the company plans to file a Presidential Permit application (cross border permit) in the near future for the Keystone XL Project from the U.S./Canada border in Montana to Steele City, Nebraska.  TransCanada would supplement that application with an alternative route in Nebraska as soon as that route is selected.  

The company also informed the DOS that what had been the Cushing to U.S. Gulf Coast portion of the Keystone XL Project has its own independent value to the marketplace and will be constructed as a stand-alone Gulf Coast Project, not part of the Presidential Permit process.  The approximate cost is US$2.3 billion and subject to regulatory approvals, we anticipate the Gulf Coast Project to be in service in mid to late 2013.

"Our application will include the already reviewed route in Montana and South Dakota," said Russ Girling, TransCanada's president and chief executive officer.  "The over three year environmental review for Keystone XL completed last summer was the most comprehensive process ever for a cross border pipeline.  Based on that work, we would expect our cross border permit should be processed expeditiously and a decision made once a new route in Nebraska is determined."

TransCanada will continue to work collaboratively with the State of Nebraska on determining an alternative route for Keystone XL that avoids the Sandhills.  TransCanada has been working on assessing the routing in Nebraska since November 2011, following the State Department's notice to delay a decision on a Presidential Permit until an adjusted route that avoids the Sandhills was developed.

U.S. crude oil production has been growing significantly in States such as Oklahoma, Texas, North Dakota and Montana.  Producers do not have access to enough pipeline capacity to move this production to the large refining market at the U.S. Gulf Coast.  The Gulf Coast Project will address this constraint.

"The Gulf Coast Project will transport growing supplies of U.S. crude oil to meet refinery demand in Texas," added Girling.  "Gulf Coast refineries can then access lower cost domestic production and avoid paying a premium to foreign oil producers.  This would reduce the United States' dependence on foreign crude and allow Americans to use more of the crude oil produced in their own country."

Reapplying for the Keystone XL permit is supported by words used in President Obama's statement January 18, 2012 when he said the denial of the permit was not based on the merits of the pipeline but rather on an imposed 60-day legislative timeline to make a decision on the project.

With respect to moving forward on an initiative like the Gulf Coast Project, President Obama stated:  "In the months ahead, we will continue to look for new ways to partner with the oil and gas industry to increase our energy security - including the potential development of an oil pipeline from Cushing, Oklahoma to the Gulf of Mexico."

TransCanada's commitment is to treat landowners with honesty, fairness and respect.  The company has negotiated over 99 per cent of voluntarily easements in Texas and close to 100 per cent in Oklahoma.  Easements make up the route of a pipeline and are similar to an easement for water, sewer and utility lines.  Residents maintain ownership of the land and landowners receive a payment equal to or greater than the land's market value.  

Keystone XL remains in the national interest of the United States as it would allow Americans to move closer toward achieving energy security and create thousands of much needed jobs.  Building the Gulf Coast Project would be a positive step in creating approximately 4,000 jobs.  From an energy security standpoint, the U.S. consumes 15 million barrels of oil each day and imports 10 to 11 million - forecasts suggest this will not change for decades.  The Keystone XL project offers Americans a choice of receiving Canadian and U.S. oil through this pipeline system or continuing to import crude oil from unstable places such as the Middle East and Venezuela that do not share American values.  

The U.S. manufacturing sector would continue to experience the economic benefits of the project, as TransCanada has contracts with over 50 suppliers across in the U.S.  Manufacturing locations for our equipment include: Texas, Missouri, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Indiana, Georgia, Maryland, New York, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Minnesota, Ohio, Arkansas, Kansas and California.  There are hundreds of additional suppliers sub-contracted through our suppliers for our material and equipment.

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## ou48A

FYI
OKC’s Harold Hamm, CEO of CLR, will be on CNBC Tonight at 6 PM central

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## Bellaboo

Two years ago, we leased 200 acres in western Payne county for $100.00 per acre for 3 years. We just leased some more this week for $250.00 per acre for 3 years. Now if someone would just come in and drill a horizontal well, we'd all be happy.

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## ou48A

This is very good news for Oklahoma Companies, producers and several communities. 
This will employ a good number of Oklahoman's and improve safety.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/enb...ans-2012-03-27

Enbridge Inc.  confirmed expansion plans for two U.S. pipelines late Monday at a cost of about $3.8 billion in a bid to move more crude from Canada to refineries along the Gulf Coast as North American oil production surges. 

Calgary-based Enbridge said it's boosting the capacity of the Flanagan South Pipeline, running from Flanagan, Ill. to Cushing, Okla., by upsizing to a 36-inch diameter line with an initial capacity of 585,000 barrels a day. 

Separately, it said it and partner Enterprise Products Partners L.P.  will twin their jointly owned Seaway Pipeline from Cushing to the U.S. Gulf Coast at Houston, more than doubling the pipeline's capacity to 850,000 barrels a day by mid-2014. 

Enbridge said it estimates its total cost of the Flanagan South project at $2.8 billion, up from an original estimate of $1.9 billion, while its share of the Seaway twin line and extension is estimated at $1 billion. 

The Seaway expansion will involve the construction of a 512-mile, 30-inch diameter twin, or parallel line, along the route of the Seaway Pipeline, adding 450,000 barrels a day of capacity to the existing system. The Flanagan South Pipeline will be constructed along the route of Enbridge's existing Spearhead Pipeline between the Flanagan Terminal, southeast of Chicago, to Enbridge's Cushing Terminal in Oklahoma. 

"Enbridge's Gulf Coast Access projects give Bakken and western Canadian producers timely, economical and reliable options to deliver a variety of crudes to refinery hubs throughout the heart of North America and now as far as the Gulf Coast," Enbridge Chief Executive Patrick D. Daniel said in a statement.

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## ou48A

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/contin...120000033.html

OKLAHOMA CITY, March 27, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- America's oil champion has a new home. Today, Continental Resources (NYSE: CLR - News) announced it has officially moved its corporate headquarters to Oklahoma City.

(Logo: http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnh/20120327/DA76602LOGO)

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Harold Hamm said the move from Continental's original headquarters in Enid, Okla., is a key element of the company's growth strategy. Oklahoma City provides access to a necessary talent pool of oil and gas professionals.

"Oklahoma City offers a vibrant base to support our aggressive growth strategy and allows us to retain our strong commitment to the State of Oklahoma," Mr. Hamm said. "With its accessibility, strong heritage and continued leadership in oil and gas, Oklahoma City is emerging as the energy capital of the future."

Continental's new headquarters is located downtown at 20 North Broadway, a 19-story, 300,000 square-foot building previously occupied by Devon Energy. The new building will be known as the Continental Oil Center and new building signage will be installed the week of March 26.

Of the company's 650 employees, 400 will office in Oklahoma City. Continental is currently hiring, and the employee count is expected to grow significantly over the next several years.

The move coincides with Continental's rise as one of the nation's leading oil and gas companies. It is the largest oil driller, producer and leaseholder in the Williston Basin of North Dakota and Montana, the largest leaseholder in the Bakken play of North Dakota and Montana, and a developer and largest leaseholder in the Anadarko Woodford of Oklahoma. The company is also the largest producer in the Red River Units of North Dakota, South Dakota and Montana.

In addition to changing its physical address, Continental is changing its website address. The new website address is www.CLR.com and will take effect today. CLR is also the company's NYSE symbol.

About Continental Resources
Continental Resources is at the forefront of the exploration and production of oil and natural gas resources in the United States and is the largest producer of oil in the Williston Basin. Using the latest technology in horizontal drilling, Continental is leading the development of key oil and natural gas resources in the continental U.S., including the Woodford resource play in Oklahoma and the nation's premier oil play, the Bakken resource play in North Dakota and Montana. For more information, visit www.CLR.com.

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## ou48A

Bakken Reassessed by U.S. Geological Survey 
The USGS has sent a team of geologists and geochemists back to the Bakken to study rock samples from previous drillings.

Click to view a Harold Hamm interview.
http://www.kulr8.com/news/local/Bakk...?video=pop&t=a

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## ou48A



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## CaptDave

That is a nice graphic ou48. Are any of the shale plays old enough to have data on long term affects of the fracturing process on surrounding areas? I ask this as supporter of the technology that has the potential to change our future if we can reduce our dependence on foreign energy sources. I want there to be hard data that refutes claims of environmental damage caused by the process itself - not the improper implementation of the process. I think we need oversight to insure all appropriate protective measures are taken while permitting us to extract oil and gas from these shale formations.

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## ou48A

> That is a nice graphic ou48. Are any of the shale plays old enough to have data on long term affects of the fracturing process on surrounding areas? I ask this as supporter of the technology that has the potential to change our future if we can reduce our dependence on foreign energy sources. I want there to be hard data that refutes claims of environmental damage caused by the process itself - not the improper implementation of the process. I think we need oversight to insure all appropriate protective measures are taken while permitting us to extract oil and gas from these shale formations.


Because of the very tight porosity of the shale’s typically there would be no noticeable impact that I am aware of on surrounding areas due to the fracturing process.

Perhaps the best evidence that supports fracking is the fact that out of well over one million fracking jobs preformed just in the USA, maybe one or 2 problems at most can be traced back to the actual frack job. There have been other issues in the well completion process that some have falsely blamed on a frack jobs.

There are studies that support the safety of fracing. 
As they have better understood the process other governments are now starting to allow facking. 

There has been a learning curve for some states on modern drilling technology’s,,,, but because local conditions can very so much oversight is best done at the state levels.

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## ou48A

There are projections from reputable sources that say the USA can become energy independent and that the USA will soon become the largest oil producer in the world. Some even say we can eventually become a net energy exporter. But even if we fall a little short our nation can become more prosperous by producing most of our energy. 

Oklahoma’s will be major players in this effort. To make our state more prosperous IMO our state should attempt to capture a larger share of the processing, refining and manufacturing of value added products from our nation’s new shale oil & NG reserves.

The high quality raw crude that flows though Cushing is worth many billions but as a state I find it ashamed that we don’t do more with it.

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## Bellaboo

Hydrollic fracturing has been in use since the late 1940's. I think the big change is it's use in accordance with horizontal drilling, where they can follow the pay zone for long distances.

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## CaptDave

That is good to know. It confirms what I believed to be true but had no way to verify personally. I think the technology may be the single biggest contrubutor to moving toward energy independence. I have seen the projections of the US to surpass Saudi Arabia as the world's largest oil producer by 2015 (?). I think of all the geopolitical ramifications for our country if we can safely maximize this technology - reduced need to secure shipping lanes in high threat areas, reduced need to secure hostile countries' oil supply, reduced need to send the military into areas we otherwise have no interest in. If we combine this with a real effort to conserve and develop more efficient uses for our energy sources it will be the single best thing we can do for future generations. It really is bigger than cheaper prices at the gas pump......

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## ou48A

This is Oklahoma related
COLUMN-Dreaming of Bakken, Kansas welcomes oil drillers: Kemp | Reuters
COLUMN-Dreaming of Bakken, Kansas welcomes oil drillers: 
Tue Jan 8, 2013 11:06am EST 
By John Kemp

LONDON Jan 8 (Reuters) - While other states struggle with how best to regulate horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing, or wonder whether to permit the practice at all, Kansas is actively courting fracking firms in the hope of repeating North Dakota's oil boom.

Interest centres on the Mississippian Lime Play (MLP), a porous limestone formation found under parts of southern and western Kansas as well as across the boundary in northern Oklahoma.

The Mississippian Lime has already produced more than 1 billion barrels of oil in the state since 1915 from conventional wells but was considered largely tapped out.

Now horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing have kindled hopes of a new oil rush as drillers unlock oil and gas previously trapped in impermeable parts of the rock formation.

"The potential economic benefits to Kansas could be significant, resulting in hundreds of wells drilled, billions of dollars in investment, thousands of jobs and industry activity in the MLP for the next 20 to 30 years," the Kansas Department of Commerce enthuses on a special website created to promote the play.

The Kansas Corporation Commission (KCC), which regulates oil and gas, has already organised tours of both North Dakota and Oklahoma to understand the transformative impact of the oil boom and its impact on local residents.

And in November, state leaders, including Governor Sam Brownback, hosted a high-level conference to hear an update on drilling and discuss how Kansas businesses could benefit from oil and gas activity.


STARTING SMALL

In the first 10 months of last year, 143 horizontal wells were drilled in the state, up from 50 in the whole of 2011 and 10 in 2010. Just over 30 rigs were drilling at the end of October, of which 18 were working on horizontal wells. Half were contracted to Sandridge, which holds by far the largest position in Mississippian acreage in the state.

Production from the Mississippian remains tiny compared with the state's conventional oil output let alone more mature unconventional plays such as the Bakken and Eagle Ford. Kansas has more than 46,000 active oil wells (mostly stripper wells producing less than 10 barrels per day) and another 24,000 producing gas.

Unconventional oil and gas production amounted to only 10,000 barrels of oil-equivalent at the end of October, 3.8 percent of the state total. Nevertheless, there is evident excitement at the potential for hydraulic-fracturing to bring a Bakken-like boost to the state economy.


FRACKERS WELCOME

The Brownback administration is unashamedly pro-business, and keen to encourage economic development.

The state is solidly Republican. All state-wide officeholders, both U.S. senators and all four U.S. representatives are from the party, which also controls both chambers of the state legislature by lop-sided majorities (32-8 in the state senate and 92-33 in the lower house).

State agencies are also sympathetic to fracking. In a basically favourable "public information circular" published in May 2012, the Kansas Geological Survey (KGS) explained that of 244,000 conventional vertical wells drilled in the state since 1947, some 57,000 wells have already been hydraulically fractured, without ill-effect.

In contrast to other states, which have agonised over the potential for fracking to lead to contamination of other rock formations and drinking water resources, KGS argued "strong economic incentives compel operators to avoid propagating fractures beyond the target formation and into adjacent areas."

"Kansas has not encountered the problems some other states have, and no documented cases of ground-water contamination by hydraulic fracturing have been reported in the state."

"Kansas' favorable geologic setting, its regulatory process, and its successful history of hydraulic fracturing and fluid management make it one of the safer regions of the country to employ the practice."

In case anyone doubted the state's enthusiasm, the Kansas Corporation Commission has published a note by the KGS and the University of Kansas which states bluntly:

"Induced seismicity (earthquakes) has not been related to hydraulic fracturing. The U.S. Geological Survey has stated that there is no evidence to suggest that hydraulic fracturing itself is the cause of the increased rate of earthquakes in the midcontinent".

Wastewater injection can trigger seismic activity but the KCC and KGS downplay the risk. "It is important to remember that those (waste) fluids are the result of any oil and gas production, and independent of the practice of hydraulic fracturing."

"Earthquakes would someday have occurred anyway as a result of slowly accumulating forces in the earth ... injection just speeds up the process."


SCOPING THE PLAY

Most drilling has so far occurred in parts of the Mississippian in Oklahoma, where more than twice as many rigs are operating and holes have been drilled.

In Kansas, exploration companies are still trying to scope out the play and identify sweet spots. Most wells have been drilled in just three counties along the Oklahoma border (Harper, Barber and Comanche) though wildcats have been sunk in another nine and the play underlies parts of 34 counties in total ().

Early exploration was directed towards natural gas, but with gas prices stuck at just $3-4 per million British thermal units (mmBtu), the focus has switched to finding fairways with more condensate and crude.

"The Lime is a reasonably low-cost play where hydrocarbons have been found before, with lots of (conventional) wells drilled in the past," the Oil and Gas Financial Journal wrote in August 2012 ("Horizontal drilling boosts production in Mississippi Lime" Aug 1).

"The nice thing about this trend versus shale is that it requires low-horsepower equipment, and smaller players can be competitive."

"The limestone's porosity and natural fractures also can mean less expense on the drilling and hydraulic fracturing parts of the project. Expenses can total half and even a fourth of typical unconventional well efforts."

By far the largest operator across the Mississippian is Sandridge, with larger companies like Chesapeake, Range Resources, Shell and Devon playing a much smaller role in the area.

The Mississippian Lime is just one layer in the vast Anadarko sedimentary basin. In other parts of the Anadarko, Continental Resources is targeting production from the Woodford shale.

For the time being, the Mississippian Lime remains a highly speculative play. "No one knows for sure" how much drilling there may eventually be, the Kansas Corporation Commission admits. "The activity in the Oklahoma region of the MLP has been encouraging, but it could be another 12-18 months before the state has a more realistic estimate of the economic impact."

But if significant quantities of oil can be produced from the Mississippian, drillers and frackers will find no state more welcoming.

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## onthestrip

Im sure they would love to have lots of drilling activity since they have a huge budget shortfall due to their irresponsible tax cut last year.

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## HangryHippo

> Im sure they would love to have lots of drilling activity since they have a huge budget shortfall due to their irresponsible tax cut last year.


Exactly.  And yet our leadership wants to follow suit...

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## ou48A

This article explains some of the complexities of moving new crude oil to markets.
There are bottle necks in the system that impact prices that Oklahoma producers receive.
Over all this is a very good problem for our state and nation to have.


http://www.rbnenergy.com/the-seven-g...-seaway-phase2


The Seven Gates of Hell for WTI Crude Traders – Seaway Phase 2 and the Brent Differential 
published by Sandy Fielden on Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:55

By the end of this week (Friday January 11, 2013) Phase 2 of the Seaway Reversal pipeline project that delivers crude from Cushing to Houston is supposed to have come online - expanding pipeline capacity from 150 Mb/d to 400 Mb/d. Phase 1 of the project was eagerly anticipated by the market but since then (June 2012) the narrowing in price differentials between WTI Cushing and Brent expected by much of the market has not materialized. Today we explain why Seaway Phase 2 is only one factor in today’s complex US crude market evolution

 RBN School of Energy brings the RBN Energy brand of energy market fundamentals to an intensive two-day course of study to be held Feb.12-13, 2013, at the St. Regis in Houston, TX. For more information, see RBN School of Energy | RBN Energy Network

 The Seaway pipeline runs from Cushing, OK to Freeport, TX (passing through Houston on the way) and originally moved crude from the Gulf Coast up to Cushing. The joint owners of the pipeline, Enbridge and Enterprise reversed the pipeline last June to flow crude from Cushing to Freeport. Phase 1 of the project provided shipping capacity of 150 Mb/d. Phase 2 of the project expands the existing pipeline capacity by adding more pump capacity to increase the volume to 400 Mb/d. Phase 3 of the project is to build a parallel crude oil pipeline alongside the original that will more than double capacity to 850 Mb/d and come online in 2014. RBN Energy Blog contributor Industrial Information Resources explained the project engineering in a post last August (see Seaway Reversal Project).

 The “Simple Theory” of WTI Price Recovery

 Market speculation about Seaway Phase 2 centers on whether or not the addition of another 250 Mb/d of crude oil capacity between Cushing and Houston will cause the price of West Texas Intermediate (WTI) crude at Cushing, OK – the Midwest domestic market benchmark and the crude delivered against the NYMEX futures contract - to recover lost ground against the Brent ICE futures benchmark. As pretty much everyone involved in crude oil analysis knows by now, WTI has been trading at a discount to Brent over the past two years. That discount has been hovering around the $20/Bbl level for the past six months - even though the two crudes are of similar quality and WTI traded at a slight premium to Brent up until August 2010. It is generally accepted that the large WTI discount to Brent came about because of an oversupply of new crude production from Canada and US domestic shale plays such as the Bakken field in North Dakota into the Midwest market. The new production backed up supplies at the Cushing hub where WTI is traded, causing its price to fall relative to international crudes that are linked to Brent. Since that price dislocation occurred some have assumed that all it would take to end the WTI discount to Brent is for new pipeline infrastructure like Seaway to open up and let the Cushing crude glut flow out of the Midwest -where it is not needed - down to the Gulf Coast where there is plenty of refinery demand. At that point, theoretically WTI prices would resume parity with Brent, the clouds will part and the sun will shine on Oklahoma. For the sake of argument we are going to call that the “Simple Theory” of WTI price recovery.

 Unfortunately things are not working out the way the “Simple Theory” would suggest. In fact looking at the data since the Seaway pipeline opened in June 2012 we can see two distinct periods of activity where prices and inventories basically did the opposite of what the “Simple Theory” says should have happened. The chart below shows Cushing stocks and the WTI discount to Brent over the past year. The WTI discount to Brent is the blue line on the left axis and the Cushing crude stock position is the red line on the right axis. The first period to look at (green circle) is between June and November 2012 when Cushing crude stocks declined by about 4 MMBbl after Seaway Phase 1 opened. Instead of the WTI discount to Brent narrowing during that period as the “Simple Theory” expected the discount widened from around $11/Bbl in June to as high as $25/Bbl in November. The second period to look at is between November 2012 and this week (orange circle). During that period Cushing stocks increased by 6 MMBbl to reach another new record level over 49 MMBbl and the WTI discount to Brent fell back from $25/Bbl to $18.25/Bbl. During both these periods the data behaved inversely to the “Simple Theory” that says lower inventories narrow the WTI discount and higher inventories will increase the WTI discount.
In short the “Simple Theory” is not sufficient to explain how and when WTI prices will recover against Brent. Instead the US crude oil market is going through a complex transition that involves more variables than just Cushing inventories and WTI/Brent prices. In the rest of this blog we list seven variables (the “Gates of Hell” in our title) and their influence on crude prices. Only by paying attention to these “gates” can we explain what is happening to crude price relationships. 

Gate #1 – Midwest Refinery Demand
 Fluctuating refinery demand in the Midwest currently has more impact on Cushing inventory levels than crude flows from Cushing to Houston on the Seaway pipeline. During our last blog on the WTI discount to Brent (see Place Your Bets on Narrower WTI/Brent Spread) we referred to the 400 Mb/d BP Whiting refinery in Indiana that makes up 11 percent of Midwest refinery crude capacity. A significant expansion project at BP Whiting took 250 Mb/d of refining capacity out of the Midwest market in November 2012 that will not be returning until the middle of 2013. That disruption helps explain the rise in Cushing inventories since November 2012. It could be argued that the Seaway Phase 2 expansion evens out the 250 Mb/d that BP Whiting is no longer consuming. That would mean Seaway 2 has no impact on Cushing stocks before BP Whiting comes back on line in mid 2013. Expect refinery demand fluctuations to continue causing temporary blips in crude pricing.

 Gate # 2 – The Crude Stockpile at Cushing
 Regardless of temporary refinery demand fluctuations in the Midwest the fundamentals suggest that the crude stockpile at Cushing (and oversupply in the Midwest) is going to be addressed by new pipelines – probably by the end of 2013 when Seaway Phase 2 and the Keystone XL Gulf Coast Extension project (700 Mb/d by 3Q 2013) will together have added 0.9 MMb/d of new capacity between Cushing and Houston. Reducing the Cushing stockpile will reduce the downward pressure on WTI prices and narrow the discount to Brent but it is not the only factor and may well be overshadowed by other variables.
 Gate # 3 – New Flows of Crude into Houston from the Permian and Eagle Ford

 New crude flows from the Permian will come via the Magellan Longhorn Reversal project that will flow 75 Mb/d in 1Q 2013 and another 150 Mb/d by the end of 2Q 2013 as well as the Sunoco Logistics (Energy Transfer Partners) additions to the West Texas Gulf pipeline that will add another 200 Mb/d of capacity from the Permian to Houston by mid 2013. 

New pipelines out of the Eagle Ford basin in South Texas began delivering increasing volumes of crude to Houston refineries (Enterprise 350 Mb/d, Kinder Morgan 300 Mb/d) during the second half of 2012.

 Because the majority of Permian crude production has been flowing to Cushing, OK up until now - adding to the supply glut there - the new flows of West Texas crude to Houston will relieve pressure on Cushing. [The new pipelines will also reduce the heavy price discount against WTI that Permian producers have recently had to endure because supplies exceeded takeaway capacity and backed up at Midland, TX (see After The Flood).]

 The new flows of crude from the Eagle Ford and the Permian will initially be delivered into the Houston area and will not pass through Cushing on their way to market. The focus of trading and pricing for WTI will therefore likely gravitate away from its traditional hub in Cushing. Watch for a new crude trading market based in Houston.

 Gate # 4 – New Flows of Crude into Louisiana From North Dakota and the Eagle Ford
 Significant new domestic crude supplies are now reaching refineries in the Louisiana Gulf Coast region. We explained recently how 150 Mb/d of Bakken crude arrives by rail from North Dakota at St. James, LA (see Back to The Delta). There is also a growing coastal trade moving Eagle Ford crude by barge from Corpus Christi, TX to St. James. The newly reversed Shell Houston to Houma (Ho-Ho) pipeline begins delivering up to 300 Mb/d of crude from the Houston area to Louisiana Gulf Coast refineries this month (January 2013). These new supplies of light sweet crude into the Louisiana Gulf Coast market are already backing out sweet crude imports (see Thrown for a LOOP Part 1). The current Gulf Coast benchmark light sweet crude – Louisiana Light Sweet (LLS) is priced at a small discount to Brent because it competes with imported crudes that are linked to Brent. Once domestic supplies replace these imports then LLS prices are likely to switch to track domestic crudes linked to WTI rather than Brent.

Gate # 5 – Crude Quality
We have previously discussed the fact that *the new supplies of domestically produced crude primarily from North Dakota, the Permian Basin and the Eagle Ford are considerably lighter in composition than the crudes that US refiners have been consuming for years (see Turner Mason and the Goblet of Light and Heavy). In addition, new supplies of crude from Western Canada are a blend of very light and very heavy components that again are not typical of existing grades. Refineries on the Gulf Coast that are configured for heavy crudes can only adapt to run these new crudes by reducing their throughput considerably or undergoing expensive alterations.* 

*If there is a flood of light sweet crudes such as Bakken coming to the Gulf Coast from the Midwest via Cushing on the Seaway and Keystone pipelines then there is a very real danger that the supply glut in Cushing will simply be transferred to the Gulf Coast* along with the attendant risks of price discounts that have dogged WTI over the past two years. That is because Houston is already receiving light sweet crudes from the Permian, the Eagle Ford and St. James, LA market is being supplied with North Dakota Crude. Once these flows exceed the demand for light sweet crude on the Gulf Coast (currently about 500 Mb/d) then producers will have to discount their light crudes to levels attractive for refineries configured to run heavier crudes. 

Gate #6 Does Seaway Ship Light or Heavy Crude?
 It follows that an important influence on Variable # 5 will be whether the crudes flowing from Cushing to Houston on Seaway are mostly light sweet crudes such as North Dakota Bakken and WTI or mostly heavier Canadian crudes. Heavy Canadian crudes are more attractive to Gulf Coast refiners because there is greater refining capacity configured to handle them (although some Canadian light/heavy blend crudes are still not ideal for heavy crude refineries). Higher Seaway volumes of heavy Canadian crudes will therefore have less impact on WTI prices than higher volumes of light sweet crude because the latter will increase the risk of the light sweet glut scenario described in Variable # 5 

Gate # 7 The Possibility of Crude Exports
 Last but not least we should mention the possibility that the US government will allow some volumes of crude oil exports from the Gulf Coast. Currently crude oil cannot be exported without a special License from the Bureau of Commerce (see Fifty Shades Lighter) and these have only been granted for limited exports to Canada. If crude oil exports are allowed at the Gulf Coast then the light sweet crude glut scenario described in Variable # 5 will be avoided. Producers would simply export any light sweet crudes not needed in the Gulf Coast region to international markets. Refiners would continue to import the heavier crudes their refineries are configured to run. The crude export scenario seems politically unlikely but if it does happen it will have a dramatic impact on US crude prices because WTI and LLS will be linked back to international markets and track Brent prices directly.

Summing Up
 Our seven “Gates of Hell” indicate just how complex the Gulf Coast crude supply situation is for crude traders and analysts to navigate today. The fate of the WTI discount to Brent is tied to many factors besides the level of crude stocks at Cushing. The WTI relationship with Brent will not resolve itself overnight through one or two new pipelines but rather by a gradual evolution over the next two years. Our belief (as explained in After the Flood - Gulf Coast Light Sweet Crude Pricing Beyond 2013) is that the WTI discount to Brent will decline over the next two years to arrive at a new level close to $10/Bbl. Along the way there will be plenty of hiccups caused by local demand fluctuations, crude quality issues and potentially a new supply surplus on the Gulf Coast. Stay tuned to RBN Energy for continued insight.

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## Bunty

> Im sure they would love to have lots of drilling activity since they have a huge budget shortfall due to their irresponsible tax cut last year.


Isn't that the point of advancing the Republican political philosophy of making government smaller by cutting taxes and thereby attracting new business to the state?

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## ou48A

> Im sure they would love to have lots of drilling activity since they have a huge budget shortfall due to their irresponsible tax cut last year.


The first of the Kansas tax cuts didn’t even go into effect until January 1,so in spite of the jump to conclusions the jury is still out in a major way!

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## Bunty

> The first of the Kansas tax cuts didnt even go into effect until January 1,so in spite of the jump to conclusions the jury is still out in a major way!


Kansas obviously didn't learn what happened after Oklahoma cut income taxes--a scorched government, yet to recover, along with a state capitol building still in severe need of many millions of dollars worth of repairs and restoration.   As with Oklahoma, I bet a lot of industrial expansionists are looking at what else Kansas offers them besides tax cuts.

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## ou48A

> Kansas obviously didn't learn what happened after Oklahoma cut income taxes--a scorched government, yet to recover, along with a state capitol building still in severe need of many millions of dollars worth of repairs and restoration.   As with Oklahoma, I bet a lot of industrial expansionists are looking at what else Kansas offers them besides tax cuts.



Having lived in Kansas for a number of years I believe their states government is operated more efficiently and is more responsible with its tax money than Oklahoma.

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## adaniel

Maybe in the past. Right now Kansas's budget situation is dreadful.

Local governments fear Kansas' state budget shortfall repercussions | Cjonline.com Mobile

Even California now has a budget in the black.

If it weren't for Johnson County, Kansas would have the economic vitality of Alabama, without the scenery.

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## UnFrSaKn

Not sure if posted...

Denver company buys Oklahoma City's Canary Wellhead Equipment | NewsOK.com

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## ou48A

The article did not discuss it, but this pipeline will help Oklahoma oil producers receive more money for their oil.
TransCanada continues building pipeline across Oklahoma to Gulf Coast | NewsOK.com


PRAGUE — The daily “scatter sheet” tells the story. The one-page report details how TransCanada is deploying about 850 workers along the Oklahoma portion of its Gulf Coast pipeline.

The 485-mile pipeline is being built in pieces, with construction broken into three spreads to increase efficiency. The longest spread extends about 195 miles from Cushing to the other side of the Texas border.

“It works in an assembly-line fashion,” project spokesman Jim Prescott said.

There are about 30 crews assigned to tasks from locating the company's right of way and erecting fences to lowering in pipe and welding it together.

Crews begin each day at TransCanada's construction yard in Prague before being bused to work sites spread over about 70 miles along the pipeline route.

Trucks move loads of 30-inch pipe from the storage yard at Cushing to where it is needed along the route.

“This is a typical day,” Prescott said. “There's a lot of moving parts.”

Tuesday, one crew was working to tie together two sections of pipe south of Cushing, while another was putting up fences along the right of way in Coal County.

Roger Stogsdill, an assistant chief inspector, said each section of pipe is about 80 feet long.

Crews use a hoe or trenching machine to dig ditches for the underground pipeline, which rests on urethane “pillows” to keep it off the bottom, he said. The pipe also is padded to keep its protective coating from being damaged by rocks when it is buried.

*In all, TransCanada is employing about 4,000 workers and spending $2 million a day on construction materials. More money is injected into local economies by workers along the route.*

Prescott said TransCanada expects to finish the pipeline by summer, with an eye toward getting it in service in the fourth quarter.

The completed line will transport up to 700,000 barrels of crude oil a day from the storage hub at Cushing to refineries along the Gulf Coast.

The project is part of TransCanada's planned Keystone XL pipeline, which would move crude oil from Canada and North Dakota.

The overall plan was rejected by the Obama administration last year because of concerns about its route through Nebraska's vast Ogallala Aquifer.

The Canadian company opted to move forward with the Gulf Coast portion of the line to help reduce the glut of oil in storage at Cushing.

TransCanada since has submitted a new application for a permit for the proposed transcontinental pipeline.

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## Bunty

> Having lived in Kansas for a number of years I believe their states government is operated more efficiently and is more responsible with its tax money than Oklahoma.


No wonder.  Oklahoma is ranked as the 10th most corrupt state, while Kansas is ranked 44.  The Most Corrupt States - The Daily Beast

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## ou48A

This is an interesting article about the Mississippi Lime and companies with Oklahoma operations.
Bakken Update: Mississippi Lime Well Design Improvement Is Increasing Estimated Recoveries, Part 3 - Seeking Alpha

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## ou48A

This is a very interesting look at America's Oil And Gas Billionaires. It includes several Oklahomans and people with strong Oklahoma ties. Their ingenuity employs many people and their charitable giving to various causes in Oklahoma has helped make our state a better place to live.
Harold Hamm
George Kaiser
Lynn Schusterman
Tim Headington
T. Boone Pickens
There are many others who have done much the same who did not make the list this year

Click link to watch a very good Harold Hamm interview.
America's Oil And Gas Billionaires - Forbes



No one has made a greater fortune from the North American Oil and Gas Boom than Harold Hamm. The founder and CEO of Continental Resources is responsible for cracking the code of the Bakken  the vast formation of oil-bearing rock that sits beneath much of North Dakota and Montana. With his 72% ownership stake in publicly traded Continental, Hamm is now worth $11.3 billion, making him the 90th richest person on the planet, according to Forbes newly released annual ranking of the worlds billionaires.


Harold Hamm

The Bakken has truly disrupted not just the American oil market, but the worlds. The amount of oil flowing out of the Bakken has soared from 100,000 bpd in 2006 to more than 550,000 bpd now. Hamm and many other analysts think that the potential is there for output to go to 1 million bpd, making it one of the worlds biggest producing areas, virtually overnight. We caught up with Hamm in February for this video interview, and you can also read my past coverage in Forbes Magazine about how Hamm got his start and a profile of him and his expectations for the future of the U.S. oil scene.

In the oil and gas industry the only bigger fortune than Hamms is that of the Koch Brothers. But although Charles and David Koch are tied for 6th in the world, with fortunes of $34 billion each, the bulk of their fortunes are not in the operation of oil and gas fields, but in massive refineries, pipelines and chemicals plants. My colleague Dan Fisher did this Forbes cover story on the Kochs recently, a must read.

After Hamm on the list of American oil and gas billionaires comes Phil Anschutz and George Kaiser, with fortunes of $10 billion each (tied for 109th).

Anschutz is truly one of the great empire builders in American history. He has made fortunes in oil, railroads and telecom, but today his biggest bets are in entertainment. In late 2012 he put his Anschutz Entertainment Group up for sale, hoping to get more than $8 billion. Through AEG, he operates dozens of the worlds greatest concert venues like the Staples Center and Nokia Theater in L.A., Londons O2, and Shanghais Mercedes-Benz Arena. He fills his halls with his own in-house entertainment, including the L.A. Lakers and NHLs L.A. Kings. You can read my Forbes feature story of Anschutz here.

Kaisers family fled Nazi Germany and settled in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where his uncle founded Kaiser-Francis Oil Company. George inherited control in the late 1960s, and made the most of it. Hes now pursuing oil plays in North Dakota, Wyoming and Canada. In the 1990s he bought the Bank of Oklahoma out of federal receivership for $60 million; his stake is now worth $2.4 billion. Check out my cover story on Kaisers impressive charitable giving.

The Worlds Billionaires The names, numbers and stories behind the 1,426 people who control the global economy. In Pictures: The Richest People on the Planet

Then we have Richard Kinder, the CEO and founder of pipeline behemoth Kinder Morgan. Kinder comes in at 112th place on the list, with $9.8 billion. Kinder Morgan owns 75,000 miles of pipeline and 180 storage terminals capable of handling 2.5 million barrels of oil and 55 billion cubic feet of gas a day. A former Army captain, he founded Kinder Morgan in 1997 with his friend William Morgan, after quitting as president of Enron the year before. You can read my recent magazine feature on Kinder here.

Ray Lee Hunt at $5.6 billion, inherited a fortune from his wildcatter father H.L. Hunt and has been building on it ever since with LNG projects in Peru and Yemen, a refinery in Alabama and big acreage across the United States. Last year Hunt Oil even made a big find in Iraqs Kurdistan region. Hes ranked 214th.



 Inside The 2013 Billionaires List: Facts and Figures
 Kerry A. Dolan Forbes Staff 
Chevron: The World's Biggest Gusher Christopher HelmanForbes Staff 

The World's Richest Billionaire Hedge Fund Managers And Traders Nathan VardiForbes Staff 

Billionaires 2013: Notable Newcomers Tory Burch, Nicholas Woodman, Renzo Rosso Erin CarlyleForbes Staff 

Jeffrey Hildebrand of privately held Hilcorp Energy comes in at $5.5 billion (219th). In 2011 Hildebrand turned a $100 million investment in the Eagle Ford shale of Texas into a $1.4 billion payday with a sale to Marathon Oil. He has already reinvested in Cook Inlet, Alaska, buying fields from Chevron and Marathon. Hes also in big in the Utica shale of Ohio and last year sold most of his fields in the Gulf of Mexico for $550 million.

Dannine Avara, Scott Duncan, Milane Frantz and Randa Williams are the four children of Dan Duncan, founder of pipeline giant Enterprise Products Partners. Formerly the richest man in Houston, he died in 2010 at age 77.

Robert Rowling of Dallas owns the Omni Hotels and Golds Gym chains, but still has a sizable portion of his fortune in oil and gas operations such as Tana Exploration. All together his fortune is $4.9 billion (256th).

Trevor Rees-Jones is at $4.5 billion (274th). Rees-Jones first worked as a bankruptcy lawyer, and then switched to oil and gas exploration. His Dallas-based Chief Oil & Gas Co. has shown impeccable timing. Rees-Jones was an early investor and early seller (2008) in the Barnett shale gas play in Texas, netting more than $1.5 billion. He plowed cash into the Marcellus shale gas play and made another $2 billion selling acreage there to the likes of Chevron and Enerplus, and another $1 billion dealing his Marcellus pipeline network to Penn-Virginia last year.

Lynn Schusterman, with a fortune of $3.5 billion, is the widow of Oklahoma wildcatter Charles Schusterman (d. 2000) who built Samson Resources from nothing. In November 2011 the Schusterman family decided to sell most of Samson to a KKR-led group for $7.2 billion. Much of the windfall went to the Charles & Lynn Schusterman Foundation. The deal excluded deepwater Gulf of Mexico prospects like Buckskin and Moccasin that are in development now with Chevron.

Robert Holding of Utah owns Sinclair Oil and has a fortune of $3.2 billion (418th). Known by his middle name, Earl, Robert Holding parlayed a stake in Little America motel in Wyoming into a hospitality empire including ski resorts Sun Valley and Snowbasin and the Grand America hotel in Salt Lake City. He bought Sinclair Oil in the 1970s, which drills for oil and gas and operates refineries and pipelines. Holding is said to be among the largest landowners in America, with some 400,000 acres across the west. 

Terrence Pegula sold East Resources to Royal Dutch Shell for $4.7 billion in May 2010. After the sale, Pegula shifted his attention and money to the game of hockey. He bought his hometown team, the NHLs Buffalo Sabres, for $189 million in February 2011. He also donated $102 million to his alma mater Penn State to build a hockey arena and field a division one team. A former math major, Pegula switched to petroleum engineering for a scholarship and joined Getty Oil after graduation. In 1983 with a $7,500 loan from friends and family, he founded East Resources. Net worth: $3 billion.

John Arnold, the natural gas trading wunderkind retired from the hedge fund game last year at age 38 having amassed a fortune of $2.8 billion. He got his start at Enron and is said to have made $750 million in trading profits during the last days of that company in 2001.

Kelcy Warren, at $2.7 billion (523rd) is a pipeline magnate who controls Energy Transfer Partners, which he grew last year with the acquisition of Sunoco, with its 4,900 retail outlets in 23 states, for $5.3 million. That followed the purchase of fellow billionaire George Lindemanns Southern Union pipeline company for more than $5 billion the month before. Now hes streamlining the company. Warrens partner in founding Energy Transfer Partners, Ray Davis, is also a billionaire, with $1.6 billion.

Rod Lewis at $2.6 billion (551st) was drilling through the Eagle Ford shale in south Texas before anyone had any idea how to produce it. In his spare time Lewis loves to enjoy his collection of World War II fighter planes. I did this feature on his collection last fall.

The Bass brothers of Forth Worth own Bass Operating Company and a host of other investments. They are notoriously private and tough to pin down, so we suspect that were low-balling their fortunes. Robert is estimated at $2.7 billion (523rd), Ed and Lee at $2 billion each (730th), while weve bumped eldest brother Sid down to $1.8 billion (825th) after his divorce from wife Mercedes.

 George Mitchell, the father of the oil and gas boom, perfected the combination of hydraulic fracturing and horizontal drilling in the Barnett Shale two decades ago, then sold Mitchell Energy to Devon Energy. Hes at $2 billion (730th). In an interview with me last year, Mitchell said he thinks the government should step up regulation of fracking.

Tim Headington of Dallas-based Headington Oil comes in at $2.5 billion (584th place). Headington stayed under the radar until 2008 when he sold acreage in North Dakotas Bakken oil play to XTO Energy for $1.85 billion. Though still growing the oil business, Headington is funding another passion, moviemaking. Through GK Films, a production company he owns with Graham King, he has bankrolled more than a dozen films including Hugo, which won five Oscars in 2012 and Rango, which won for best animated film. It will be years, however, until Hugo can make back its $160 million budget. The returns look better for the lower-budget flicks hes invested in produced by the Film District division, such as Drive and  Insidious. Headington has also built two ultra-chic hotels in Dallas, the Lumen and Joule. Check out my Q&A with Headington, here.

Dan and Farris Wilks started out as bricklayers in Cisco, Texas, following in their fathers footsteps. In 2002 the brothers branched out into the hydraulic fracturing and oil field services industry with the founding of Frac-Tech. In May 2011 they sold their nearly 70% combined interest in Frac-Tech to a partnership lead by Singapores Temasek Holdings for $3.5 billion. The pair recently purchased the 66,000 acre N Bar Ranch in Montana from fellow billionaire Tom Siebel and they are building an airport in Cisco. Theyre at $1.4 billion each.

T. Boone Pickens brings up the back of the pack at $1.2 billion (1166th). The peripatetic legend doesnt operate any oil and gas fields anymore, but his fortune was in oil and gas, and his investment funds still trade it actively. We were wondering whether Boone would stay on the list this year after his divorce from wife Madeleine, but were assured that pre-nuptial agreements ensure that the couple keeps what they brought into the relationship. One of my favorite Forbes features ever was when I convinced Boone to get a brain scan and let us publish the images in the magazine.

William Macaulay runs First Reserve, the worlds most respected energy-focused private equity fund. Through his stake in the operating company and his share in its investments (more than 40 companies with $200 billion in revenues), he is highly leveraged not just to the U.S. oil and gas boom, but the worlds. His fortune is $1.1 billion, tying him for 1260th place. My colleague Nathan Vardi did this feature on him a few years ago.

Daniel Harrison, III is a newcomer to the list. We have him ranked at $1.1 billion. In 2010 Harrison leased his 100,000 ranch in south Texas to Shell Oil for $1 billion in cash plus royalties on future oil and gas production from the prolific Eagle Ford shale. The deal appears to be the biggest ever for a family with deep roots in Texas oil. His grandfather, the first Dan Harrison, was a legendary Texas oilman, teaming up with J.S. Abercrombie to discover gushers like the Old Ocean field in Brazoria County. He built up and oil and ranching empire across Texas. Father Dan Jr. ran the ranchland and was a master breeder of quarterhorses. To this day Dan III maintains a quarterhorse operation on a ranch in Fulshear. For a time, Dan III shared the empire with brother Bruce (d. 2004), and back in 1990 they sold a 43,000-acre west Texas ranch for about $70 million.

Paul Foster, chairman of refining company Western Refining returns to the billionaires ranks this year at $1.1 billion after a smoking hot performance by Western shares, up 90% in the past year. Foster founded Western Refining in 1997 and took it public in 2006. He spent his childhood finding ways to make money from manning fireworks stands to bagging groceries. As a teenager he spent his summers in the New Mexico oil fields welding pipes, digging ditches, cleaning tanks. He called that labor the single biggest motivation to get an education.

And lastly, at $1 billion is William Tex Moncrief, Jr. The veteran wildcatter, now 92, is currently involved in perhaps the biggest thrill of his career  partnering with McMoRan Exploration to drill some of the deepest wells ever in the Gulf of Mexico. Already theyve discovered the Davy Jones and Blackbeard fields, with more on the way. Tex got his start in the business at age 10, when his father, W. A. Monty Moncrief Sr. (d. 1986), discovered the 6-billion-barrel East Texas oilfield.

So there you have them, Americas oil and gas billionaires. Im sure theres more out there

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## king183

Looks like good news for Oklahoma natural gas companies and tax revenue if trends continue.  

Natural gas futures erased losses to touch a 21-month high during U.S. morning hours on Thursday, after a report from the U.S. Energy Information Administration showed natural gas supplies rose less-than-expected last week.

On the New York Mercantile Exchange, natural gas futures for delivery in May traded at USD 4.319 per million British thermal units during U.S. morning trade, up 2.5% on the day.       

Nymex gas prices fell by as much as 1% earlier in the day to hit a session low of USD 4.173 per million British thermal units, before retracing losses to touch a daily high of USD4.333, the strongest level since July 28, 2011. 



Natural gas surges to 21-month high after bullish U.S. supply report By Investing.com

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## coov23

Natural gas is now at 4.50. Decent price for natural gas. To make a profit it needs to be around 2.75, so you'll definitely see drilling pick up fairly quickly.

----------


## Bellaboo

> Natural gas is now at 4.50. Decent price for natural gas. To make a profit it needs to be around 2.75, so you'll definitely see drilling pick up fairly quickly.


More than likely just see them turn up production a bit, they reduced the output on a lot of wells when the price dropped a couple years back.

----------


## coov23

> More than likely just see them turn up production a bit, they reduced the output on a lot of wells when the price dropped a couple years back.


I'm telling you what I know. I worked in the business for 7 yrs. my father is a regional and international manager for a company of 400+ based out of okc. The NG companies have seen this coming for sometime and they are ramping up, not only production, but new wells, world-wide.

----------


## Bellaboo

> I'm telling you what I know. I worked in the business for 7 yrs. my father is a regional and international manager for a company of 400+ based out of okc. The NG companies have seen this coming for sometime and they are ramping up, not only production, but new wells, world-wide.


Sorry friend,

We own 18 gas wells in western Oklahoma. For a fact we choked 2 wells down 2 years ago with the flow capacity of almost a million cu feet per day down to 400,000. When the price gets back up to $5 we'll increase the flow. The increase in wells being drilled are for liquids rich output, not necessarily natural gas production.

On the other hand, were just little guys, a family operation.....what do we know ?

----------


## ou48A

> Sorry friend,
> 
> We own 18 gas wells in western Oklahoma. For a fact we choked 2 wells down 2 years ago with the flow capacity of almost a million cu feet per day down to 400,000. When the price gets back up to $5 we'll increase the flow. The increase in wells being drilled are for liquids rich output, not necessarily natural gas production.
> 
> On the other hand, were just little guys, a family operation.....what do we know ?


At the very least you understand enough to know the basics of what’s going on… But probably much more. 
Others too have choke back their wells…..

The switch to NG by electric generators and the cold spring has helped NG prices but there are large supplies of NG that will IMHO keep prices from significant and lasting price rises for a very long time. + The economy is starting to slow.

There are large amounts of high BTU NG coming on line in some of the oil shale plays that is often considered bonus gas. In addition there are huge reserves of dry natural gas that can be drilled should the prices ever justify new drilling.

Higher NG prices would help our state’s prosperity and funding for state government… but about the only thing that could significantly change the situation any time soon is the export of NG… But the White house is moving at the speed of a snail on that issue. This is yet another example of getting exactly what we vote for and it directly impacts our prosperity.

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## ou48A

You had to know this would happen….The switch NG from coal starts to shift back to coal because of high NG cost.

 Very much of this will hold NG prices down…. This switch back and forth is likely to last for a very long time and help stabilize NG prices.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/energy...175200866.html

 The action in energy's incredible.

 You get one strong day in oil and the group goes crazy. Check out the action in the most-levered-to-oil players: EOG EOG up 3 and Continental Resources CLR up $1.95 just out of nowhere. These stocks are just coiled springs and every time they come in they have to be bought. I would love to buy them in deep-in-the-money calls.

 Meanwhile, the action in the coal-related rails is incredible. Last week on "Mad Money" *we heard AEP CEO Nick Akinssaying that his company is actively switching to coal because natural gas has gotten too high*. That's why Norfolk Southern NSC has now run 20 points. What a run. Makes you want to speculate on Peabody BTU but, alas, that's a China play and you sure don't want to play China.

Meanwhile, the natural gas stocks, led by Southwestern SWN , which bought some assets from Chesapeake CHK don't want to quit, despite the switching. The group is incredibly strong.

These moves are broad and powerful. They are dazzling because they can't be occurring with some economic strength, although one could argue that once again everything's being priced off the oil futures and the oil futures are going higher because of that old correlation to the weaker dollar.

No matter, the group, including the drillers and service companies, has been biding its time. Now it seems, at last, like it's shappening. I would not overthink it. The Philly Oil Service Sector (OSX) is the right way to play it.

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## ou48A

Very interesting video on the link

Mighty algae could lead to biofuels breakthrough | News OK

Some of the world's toughest and tiniest organisms could hold secrets that would make processing biofuels more effective.

Gerald Schoenknecht, an Oklahoma State University associate botany professor, is part of a team that recently completed a genetic sequencing of the Galdieria sulphuraria, a particularly hearty red algae that has been found inside active volcanoes.
“The main driving force was really to understand how this organism can survive in an environment where almost every other organism simply dies in a surprisingly short time,” Schoenknecht said.

Schoenknecht's research found some surprising results: The enzymes that make the algae so tough were “stolen” from bacteria enzymes, something that is not supposed to be possible.

“That was so unexpected that when we first saw it, we thought something had gone wrong,” Schoenknecht said. “The first thing we did was ask our Ph.D. students what they did wrong. But we ran a lot of controls, and our findings hold water.”

Schoenknecht's team published the findings in Science magazine.

“It obviously can live in these volcanic areas because it somehow acquired genes, the building structure for proteins, from bacteria,” Schoenknecht said. “Bacteria swap genes across species. This is well established. This is why we have problems with antibiotic resistant bacteria in hospitals.”

The findings could help strengthen biofuels research by giving scientists access to the tough properties in the red algae.

Researchers throughout the country are trying to develop processes to better break down the thick, tough walls in corn stalks, switch grass and other nonfood biofuel
The process relies on mostly man-made organisms and enzymes to break down the sturdy, protein-rich plant parts into gasoline, diesel and other fuels.

What is the impact?

Schoenknecht and others hope to take the knowledge from the volcanic algae and apply some of those cell properties to the organisms used with biofuels.

“Our research could be useful in having an organism that can tolerate high heat or metal contamination,” Schoenknecht said. “The idea is that if we understand how this red algae can deal with hostile environmental conditions, it may enable us by genetic modification to toughen biofuels-producing algae, to introduce this ability into biofuels algae.”

Ray Hunke, director of the Biobased Products and Energy Center at OSU, leads biofuels research concentrating on switch grass and other possible feedstock. He said more research is needed in all aspects of the biofuels process.

“We take a holistic approach at Oklahoma State,” Hunke said. “We have a team of researchers who are working together and evaluating how we can utilize our resources via the various conversion process.

“It's a feedback mechanism. Everyone is talking to each other to achieve the best possible scenario, the most efficient process available, through our research,” Hunke said.

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## ou48A

This is a by- product of increased natural  gas production and an example of  how we should be doing more to  add value to our oil & NG production in Oklahoma. Doing so creates wealth and jobs and often lowers cost for people in our area who buy these products.

Click link for full article.
Koch expects to add jobs at Enid fertilizer plant | News OK

ENID — Koch Nitrogen Co. is nearly done with a $20 million expansion project at its Enid fertilizer plant that is expected to allow it to add another 25 jobs over the next couple of years.
He called that center the backbone of the expansion project at the plant, which can produce up to 3,000 tons of anhydrous ammonia a day. That is about 10 percent of the nation's nitrogen fertilizer production.

Anhydrous ammonia, which is made from natural gas and other ingredients, is used in the plant's other fertilizer products: urea and urea ammonium nitrate, or UAN.

 “We will be opening new well-paying, technical positions in phases as our operations ramp up in Enid over the next few months,” he said.
Koch is the world's third-largest maker and marketer of nitrogen fertilizer. The Enid plant is the company's largest.

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## zookeeper

> This is a by- product of increased natural  gas production and *an example of  how we should be doing more to  add value to our oil & NG production in Oklahoma.* Doing so creates wealth and jobs and often lowers cost for people in our area who buy these products.
> 
> Click link for full article.
> Koch expects to add jobs at Enid fertilizer plant | News OK
> 
> ENID — Koch Nitrogen Co. is nearly done with a $20 million expansion project at its Enid fertilizer plant that is expected to allow it to add another 25 jobs over the next couple of years.
> He called that center the backbone of the expansion project at the plant, which can produce up to 3,000 tons of anhydrous ammonia a day. That is about 10 percent of the nation's nitrogen fertilizer production.
> 
> Anhydrous ammonia, which is made from natural gas and other ingredients, is used in the plant's other fertilizer products: urea and urea ammonium nitrate, or UAN.
> ...


An example of what? Who is "we" and what is it "we" should be doing more of?

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## RadicalModerate

Yo  . . . Bro Z Keeper . . . Please be advised that there is no profit involved in attempting to sway rumor-mongers and drummers away from overuse of those pesky pronouns. =)

Yet feel free to continue the quest in that direction . . .
It may help to clarify the ox and the gorer (so to speak) =)

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## zookeeper

One of the things that "we" as a state do to help these companies is have little regulation. We can't even inspect these plants for safety!

Mary Fallin boasted today, regarding the Koch brothers announcement, that minimal regulations was one of the things that made Oklahoma a "business friendly" state.

“This substantial investment in Enid by Koch Nitrogen to build a new ultra-modern fertilizer production plant is *further proof that our commitment to keeping business taxes low and regulations reasonable* is paying dividends in the form of quality jobs for our state.”

After the Texas fertilizer plant explosion, it was widely reported about Oklahoma's extremely lax regulations on these plants. There's always another side to lack of regulations, lack of safety inspections, and all the things that stand in the way of profits for our corporate citizens. As they found out recently in that other "business friendly" state of Texas.
State has little regulatory power over fertilizer manufacturing | Tulsa World

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## Rover

Third world countries also have little business regulations and we criticize them.  If it is OUR third world mentality, I guess it is okay.  What's it matter if a few people die every once in a while?

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## ou48A

> One of the things that "we" as a state do to help these companies is have little regulation. We can't even inspect these plants for safety!
> 
> Mary Fallin boasted today, regarding the Koch brothers announcement, that minimal regulations was one of the things that made Oklahoma a "business friendly" state.
> 
> “This substantial investment in Enid by Koch Nitrogen to build a new ultra-modern fertilizer production plant is *further proof that our commitment to keeping business taxes low and regulations reasonable* is paying dividends in the form of quality jobs for our state.”
> 
> After the Texas fertilizer plant explosion, it was widely reported about Oklahoma's extremely lax regulations on these plants. There's always another side to lack of regulations, lack of safety inspections, and all the things that stand in the way of profits for our corporate citizens. As they found out recently in that other "business friendly" state of Texas.
> State has little regulatory power over fertilizer manufacturing | Tulsa World


Please understand there is a huge difference between the new Enid plant and the mom and pop plant in West in what they do and in how they operate. The Enid plant is not near residential areas and will have far stricter rules / regulations to follow. It will be perhaps the most modern up to date facility of its kind in the world…. That in its self represents a huge difference.

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## HangryHippo

What will ou48A hate about the current administration now?  Just kidding, man.

UPDATE 2-U.S. approves second terminal to export natural gas | Reuters

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## ou48A

> What will ou48A hate about the current administration now?  Just kidding, man.
> 
> UPDATE 2-U.S. approves second terminal to export natural gas | Reuters


I just saw this.
Although it took way too long to approve I applaud the decision.

It’s not his first time but it’s interesting how Obama sided with "BIG ENERGY" on this one.
The decision will probably anger some of his supporters?

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## soonerguru

> I just saw this.
> Although it took way too long to approve I applaud the decision.
> 
> It’s not his first time but it’s interesting how Obama sided with "BIG ENERGY" on this one.
> The decision will probably anger some of his supporters?


So when Obama does something you agree with, you harp on how it will affect him with "his supporters?" Geez, give the guy a break.

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## ou48A

> So when Obama does something you agree with, you harp on how it will affect him with "his supporters?" Geez, give the guy a break.


Obama and his White House have been so horrible on energy that he doesn’t deserve any break what so ever on energy…. He is without doubt the worst energy president ever, not only for the producers but also for the consumers who will increase feel the pain of his decisions in the years to come in a verity of ways.

Obama actually said he want’s higher energy prices including higher gasoline prices yet its his supporters who are always the first and loudest to complain about higher gasoline prices. You don’t get to have it both ways without being a hypocrite.
If there’s any more to say about Obama please take it to the political board.

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## ou48A

> I feel like all of OKCTalk has turned into the Politics section.  
> 
> Do you plan on backing up your statements or just spouting?



I have been closely following the energy issues of our nation for nearly 40 years….I’m far form an expert but I retired about ten years ago at the age of 45 mostly due to what I know about energy and its trends. Something’s are more than self-evident and this is one of them.

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## soonerguru

> Obama and his White House have been so horrible on energy that he doesnt deserve any break what so ever on energy. He is without doubt the worst energy president ever, not only for the producers but also for the consumers who will increase feel the pain of his decisions in the years to come in a verity of ways.
> 
> Obama actually said he wants higher energy prices including higher gasoline prices yet its his supporters who are always the first and loudest to complain about higher gasoline prices. You dont get to have it both ways without being a hypocrite.
> If theres any more to say about Obama please take it to the political board.


You are a hardcore, partisan Republican, and a one-trick pony. You will argue Republican talking points until you are blue in the face. 

We have had a massive oil and gas production and exploration boom under Obama, and I read stuff like this from partisan GOPers all the time. 

Republicans will only be satisfied when Obama leaves office, regardless of his actual policies or their effects.

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## ou48A

> You are a hardcore, partisan Republican, and a one-trick pony. You will argue Republican talking points until you are blue in the face. 
> 
> We have had a massive oil and gas production and exploration boom under Obama, and I read stuff like this from partisan GOPers all the time. 
> 
> Republicans will only be satisfied when Obama leaves office, regardless of his actual policies or their effects.


We have had a massive oil and gas production and exploration boom that been entirely on privet lands to which Obama can take zero credit for if we are being honest.

The facts are that production has dropped on the federal lands and that’s the only lands/ waters that Obama directly controls… and this is in spite of major advances in technology. Buy the way I very much like the JFK type of DEM but those are long gone and have been replaced by people who are more like you.

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## ou48A

> We've had 44 presidents.  I just feel like statements like that really are hard to make.  In fact, they're almost impossible to make without a ton of supporting evidence. 
> 
> I'm not interesting in having a political debate about it. I'm more interested in finding out what it takes to keep non-Politics threads from constantly going political and being laced with political stabs.


You cannot possibly come up with an equal or worse energy president.
Unfourtunalty there many things that originate from the political left that have caused us to be in a worse energy situation than is necessary. The left owns it, like it or not.

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## Bellaboo

> You are a hardcore, partisan Republican, and a one-trick pony. You will argue Republican talking points until you are blue in the face. 
> 
> We have had a massive oil and gas production and exploration boom under Obama, and I read stuff like this from partisan GOPers all the time. 
> 
> Republicans will only be satisfied when Obama leaves office, regardless of his actual policies or their effects.


He's just heard about Solendra............. lot of energy policy failure there with this admin.

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## ou48A

From February 2010 to February 2013 crude oil production in Oklahoma has grown by 51 percent.
Oklahoma crude oil production averaged over 530,000 bopd in February 2013.

RIGZONE - Five US States Help Boost US Oil Production

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## onthestrip

A bunch of talk lately about the absurd amount of money the state gives away for un-risky and common horizontal drilling. The state gave away $321million(!) of taxpayers money to drillers last fiscal year. This is hurting our state revenues to the point were we might have a reduction from the previous year. Who cares if things seem to be going well if the state isnt bringing in any more money for things like education, transportation, health, etc. Even the Oklahoman editors think so, which is saying something.

Time is right for Oklahoma policymakers to discuss merits of drilling tax credit | News OK
Tax credits for oil, gas drilling cost Okla. $321M | News OK
Oklahoma tax collections see boost despite declines | News OK

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## ou48A

This is good stuff.

OKLAHOMA CITY--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- 

ExxonMobil and its employees, including those from XTO Energy, donated nearly $1.3 million to higher education institutions across Oklahoma as part of the ExxonMobil Foundation’s 2012 Educational Matching Gift Program. 

ExxonMobil Foundation contributed unrestricted grants of $968,778 to match donations of $324,945 from employees, retirees, directors and surviving spouses. This investment includes gifts from employees of XTO Energy Inc., an ExxonMobil subsidiary. XTO Energy has offices in Oklahoma City, Ardmore, McAlester, Elk City, Ringwood, and Tyrone and more than 200 employees in the state of Oklahoma. 

Over the past five years, ExxonMobil and its employees have given more than $5.6 million to universities and colleges in Oklahoma. 

The program matches donor pledges 3:1 up to $7,500 to qualified colleges and universities in the United States along with the American Indian College Fund, Hispanic Scholarship Fund and the United Negro College Fund. Since the Educational Matching Gift Program began in 1962, more than $500 million has been donated to institutions of higher learning. 

“ExxonMobil employees have a history of giving back through both their volunteerism and philanthropy. The corporation and foundation share that philosophy and are proud to join them in their generous support,” said Suzanne McCarron, president of the ExxonMobil Foundation. 

Although grants are unrestricted, recipients are encouraged to designate a portion to math and science programs supporting student engagement. 

Nationwide, 871 institutions received $40.2 million through the 2012 Educational Matching Gift Program. 

In addition to the Educational Matching Gift Program, ExxonMobil and the ExxonMobil Foundation support and develop programs that encourage students, particularly women and minorities, toward careers in math and science fields, as well as teacher training initiatives. 

About the ExxonMobil Foundation 

The ExxonMobil Foundation is the primary philanthropic arm of Exxon Mobil Corporation in the United States. The foundation and the corporation engage in a range of philanthropic activities that advance education, health and science in the communities where ExxonMobil has significant operations. In the United States, ExxonMobil supports initiatives to improve math and science education at the K-12 and higher education levels. In 2012, together with its employees and retirees, Exxon Mobil Corporation (XOM), its divisions and affiliates, and the ExxonMobil Foundation provided $256 million in contributions worldwide, of which $116 million was dedicated to education. Community & development | ExxonMobil. 

About XTO Energy 

XTO Energy Inc., a subsidiary of ExxonMobil, is a leading natural gas and oil producer in the U.S. with expertise in developing tight gas, shale gas, coal bed methane and unconventional oil resources. XTO has operations in all major U.S. producing regions. XTO has a reputation for efficient resource development, environmental stewardship and community involvement, with a particular commitment to building job readiness to meet the growing challenges and requirements of our domestic natural gas industry. 


List of Oklahoma Recipients 


Cameron University    Lawton  
Eastern Oklahoma State College    Wilburton  
Northeastern State University    Tahlequah  
Northern Oklahoma College    Tonkawa  
Northwestern Oklahoma State University    Alva  
Oklahoma Baptist University    Shawnee  
Oklahoma Christian University    Oklahoma City  
Oklahoma State University    Stillwater  
Oral Roberts University    Tulsa  
Southeastern University    Durant  
Southern Nazarene University    Bethany  
Southwestern Oklahoma State University    Weatherford  
University of Central Oklahoma    Edmond  
University of Oklahoma    Norman  
University of Science & Arts of Oklahoma    Chickasha  
University of Tulsa    Tulsa

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## onthestrip

Hooray, our state gave oil companies $321 million last year to drill for oil and they give back $1.3 million to schools. Thats one helluva deal for the oil guys.

Here is another op-ed from an actual oil company owner about our states boneheaded use tax reduction. While Im no fan of Kaiser, he is right on with this. Our state is giving away tax breaks when its completely unnecessary.
Tax incentive does not serve its intended purpose | Tulsa World

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## BoulderSooner

> Hooray, our state gave oil companies $321 million last year to drill for oil and they give back $1.3 million to schools. Thats one helluva deal for the oil guys.
> 
> Here is another op-ed from an actual oil company owner about our states boneheaded use tax reduction. While Im no fan of Kaiser, he is right on with this. Our state is giving away tax breaks when its completely unnecessary.
> Tax incentive does not serve its intended purpose | Tulsa World


our state didn't give oil companies anything

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## HangryHippo

> our state didn't give oil companies anything


Not outright, but did you read the Tulsa World article?

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## BoulderSooner

> Not outright, but did you read the Tulsa World article?


the op ed  from George Kaiser ... yes i did

----------


## onthestrip

> our state didn't give oil companies anything


Oh how I love your one sentence replies that never explain anything...

What do you call it then?

And did you happen to read these articles? 
Time is right for Oklahoma policymakers to discuss merits of drilling tax credit | News OK
Tax credits for oil, gas drilling cost Okla. $321M | News OK
Oklahoma tax collections see boost despite declines | News OK

This oil boom isnt going to improve our state's core services if we keep needlessly giving away hundreds of millions.

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## Bellaboo

> Not outright, but did you read the Tulsa World article?


I read the article - I'm not too sure you understand how this works. The horizontal drilling is extremely expensive, thus the tax is greatly reduced. Just the rig activity (thousands of jobs due to the drilling) with all the additional drilling makes up for a shortfall. This incentive is not giving away existing cofers, it's just not collecting up front what will be reaped 100 X over during the life of the producing wells.

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## HangryHippo

> I read the article - I'm not too sure you understand how this works. The horizontal drilling is extremely expensive, thus the tax is greatly reduced. Just the rig activity (thousands of jobs due to the drilling) with all the additional drilling makes up for a shortfall. This incentive is not giving away existing cofers, it's just not collecting up front what will be reaped 100 X over during the life of the producing wells.


The wells are being drilled anyway, and if you somehow think that Oklahoma is reaping 100x more over the life of the wells, then I don't know what to tell you other than you're wrong.  You're simply forgoing revenue for the state on something that's going to be drilled anyway.  And if we were making it up with additional activity, why then would there be a burgeoning push to revisit the tax reduction?  Certainly not because it's earning so much money for OK...  We're needlessly subsidizing this process.

----------


## onthestrip

> I read the article - I'm not too sure you understand how this works. The horizontal drilling is extremely expensive, thus the tax is greatly reduced. Just the rig activity (thousands of jobs due to the drilling) with all the additional drilling makes up for a shortfall. This incentive is not giving away existing cofers, it's just not collecting up front what will be reaped 100 X over during the life of the producing wells.


The only thing you need to read to know that we are needlessly subsidizing drilling is that North Dakota taxes this 10 times what we are, and theyre not slowing down up there. The oil underneath us isnt going anywhere, drillers will drill because there is oil there and prices are good. It may be smart to give tax breaks to attract new industries but here we are simply subsidizing an industry that doesnt need it. And at the expense of public education, health and roads.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> The only thing you need to read to know that we are needlessly subsidizing drilling is that North Dakota taxes this 10 times what we are, and theyre not slowing down up there. The oil underneath us isnt going anywhere, drillers will drill because there is oil there and prices are good. It may be smart to give tax breaks to attract new industries but here we are simply subsidizing an industry that doesnt need it. And at the expense of public education, health and roads.


link?

----------


## onthestrip

> link?


Link for what? That North Dakota's tax is at 11.5%, compared to our 1%..? Read the Kaiser op-ed that you said you read. Its in there.

----------


## Bellaboo

> The only thing you need to read to know that we are needlessly subsidizing drilling is that North Dakota taxes this 10 times what we are, and theyre not slowing down up there. The oil underneath us isnt going anywhere, drillers will drill because there is oil there and prices are good. It may be smart to give tax breaks to attract new industries but here we are simply subsidizing an industry that doesnt need it. And at the expense of public education, health and roads.


I understand way more than you know, North Dakota Bakken Shale oil is a very high grade and high output, making it much more profitable. They easily pay the tax versus the risk. It's a matter of risk/reward, with the reward outweighing the risk.

----------


## Bellaboo

> The only thing you need to read to know that we are needlessly subsidizing drilling is that North Dakota taxes this 10 times what we are, and theyre not slowing down up there. The oil underneath us isnt going anywhere, drillers will drill because there is oil there and prices are good. It may be smart to give tax breaks to attract new industries but here we are simply subsidizing an industry that doesnt need it. And at the expense of public education, health and roads.


Without the subsidy, they could ship those rigs that are drilling here to the Bakken Shale....the subsidy evens the field.

----------


## onthestrip

> Without the subsidy, they could ship those rigs that are drilling here to the Bakken Shale....the subsidy evens the field.


Oh, so I guess there werent any horizontal wells being drilled before the tax reduction? Of course not. 

When state revenues as whole are starting to decline, thats when you know it isnt working.

----------


## ou48A

> I understand way more than you know, North Dakota Bakken Shale oil is a very high grade and high output, making it much more profitable. They easily pay the tax versus the risk. It's a matter of risk/reward, with the reward outweighing the risk.


It's very obvious that you know far more about the facts but this is a case where closed minds will never listen to any amount of factual reasoning, they have been brainwashed by people who stand to profit for their own personal gain..... making a response waste of time.

----------


## onthestrip

> It's very obvious that you know far more about the facts but this is a case where closed minds will never listen to any amount of factual reasoning, *they have been brainwashed by people who stand to profit for their own personal gain*..... making a response waste of time.


Hahaha...brainwashed by people who stand to profit...kind of like what the oil companies do? The only thing I (as well as every citizen of this state) stand to profit if we cut these irresponsible tax breaks would be a better education system, better access to healthcare and maybe better roads.

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## Bellaboo

> Oh, so I guess there werent any horizontal wells being drilled before the tax reduction? Of course not. 
> 
> When state revenues as whole are starting to decline, thats when you know it isnt working.


The Mississippi Lime code was cracked about 2 years ago. Horizontal drilling, such as with shale, was the answer. Take a drive up to Crescent and Mulhall, as I did this past weekend. It's an all out oil boom going on. Pipeline crews and drilling activity everywhere, I passed several 'travel trailer towns' randomly in the country. Half the truck tags up there are from Texas......tons of jobs right now. You can thank that tax credit for a lot of these, and the horizontal drilling. My family owns and operates 3 deep wells in excess of 10,000 ft, and participates in another 18 or so. We just leased 420 divided acres to Devon energy in Western Payne county - we are a small company and are hoping for the best.

----------


## PWitty

Bellaboo answered it perfectly. The reason taxes are higher there is because the crude is very high quality and the initial peak production is much higher. Both of those lead to much higher profits in a short amount of time. By allowing companies to pay a lower tax rate for drilling expenses in fields like the Anadarko basin (in OK), the fields become more attractive because companies don't have to spend as much money money up front. This leads to a higher rate of return in the near term, which allows the company to drill more wells. Like Bellaboo said if you take away that tax incentive you almost surely decrease the amount of activity in the area. But it sounds like you already have your mind made up on how you feel about it regardless of the logical explanations given in favor of the tax.

----------


## PWitty

I'm not saying the tax on drilling carries couldn't stand to be increased a little, but there is most definitely a reason why OK's is so much lower than ND's.

----------


## adaniel

> I'm not saying the tax on drilling carries couldn't stand to be increased a little, but there is most definitely a reason why OK's is so much lower than ND's.


I don't think anyone is advocating we get rid of all tax credits on drilling. Nearly every major energy producing state has some sort of incentive program, either with drilling or on severance taxes. People are just asking for a little balance. 

This program was budgeted to only cost $150 million yet has more than doubled that. That's money that has to come from somewhere else. Whose taxes are you planning to raise to plug a $150 million hole? For the record I work in the industry, but I have to call things like I see it. Texas is also taking a pretty hard look at reining in (not getting rid of) some of their tax breaks. 

One of the positive things about living in a major energy state is that severance and drilling taxes are money not paid out of citizen's pockets to fund crucial services. If you can't do that, your going to have to find the money elsewhere.

----------


## PWitty

> I don't think anyone is advocating we get rid of all tax credits on drilling. Nearly every major energy producing state has some sort of incentive program, either with drilling or on severance taxes. People are just asking for a little balance. 
> 
> This program was budgeted to only cost $150 million yet has more than doubled that. That's money that has to come from somewhere else. Whose taxes are you planning to raise to plug a $150 million hole? For the record I work in the industry, but I have to call things like I see it. Texas is also taking a pretty hard look at reining in (not getting rid of) some of their tax breaks. 
> 
> One of the positive things about living in a major energy state is that severance and drilling taxes are money not paid out of citizen's pockets to fund crucial services. If you can't do that, your going to have to find the money elsewhere.


Sorry, I wasn't advocating for no increase for taxes on the drilling and completion costs. I was simply pointing out why it would be logical that OK would have a lower tax on well costs than ND. Some were speaking as if the cost to get the oil out of the ground and the profits made were equivalent in any basin across the country and that the only reason for the lower tax was corporate greed, and I was just trying to point out that's not the case.

----------


## zookeeper

> Without the subsidy, they could ship those rigs that are drilling here to the Bakken Shale....the subsidy evens the field.


You gotta love the "conservatives" who love government giveaways ------- when they're giving it to Big Energy to "even the field." That's free enterprise?

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## BoulderSooner

> You gotta love the "conservatives" who love government giveaways ------- when they're giving it to Big Energy to "even the field." That's free enterprise?


how lower taxes = a "giveaway"   boggles my mind

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## Bellaboo

> You gotta love the "conservatives" who love government giveaways ------- when they're giving it to Big Energy to "even the field." That's free enterprise?


Not sure you know how it works either........You can't give away something you don't have.....think about it...

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## zookeeper

> how lower taxes = a "giveaway"   boggles my mind


How does it boggle your mind? I have thought about it. You think about the following...a fictional analogy *away* from your industry.

Let's say that Oklahoma City had a tax on everything sold at, say, WalMart, of 10% and this is the national median, the norm. WalMart pays 10% of everything to OKC.
Tulsa decides to tax everything sold at WalMart at 1%. WalMart pays Tulsa 1% of all sales. This is NOT the median - NOT the norm.

On every $1,000.000.00 of sales, Walmart pays OKC (and most other cities) their 10% or.......... $100,000.00
But in Tulsa, on every $1,000.000.00 of sales, WalMart pays only $10,000

WalMart pays Tulsa $90,000.00 LESS than OKC and most all other cities. 

On what planet is this fictional sweetheart deal with Tulsa NOT called a *giveaway?*


To further illustrate the fallacy of your logic. You argue the same in your *support* of the tax break. If it's not helpful, if it doesn't pad the bottom line of your energy company in Oklahoma, why the support for it to continue? Because it's money in the bank you don't have elsewhere. We can play with the semantics forever, but a sweetheart deal that amounts to a giveaway, a handout, a "subsidy", an "incentive", is what it is.

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## ou48A

> How does it boggle your mind? I have thought about it. You think about the following...a fictional analogy *away* from your industry.
> 
> Let's say that Oklahoma City had a tax on everything sold at, say, WalMart, of 10% and this is the national median, the norm. WalMart pays 10% of everything to OKC.
> Tulsa decides to tax everything sold at WalMart at 1%. WalMart pays Tulsa 1% of all sales. This is NOT the median - NOT the norm.
> 
> On every $1,000.000.00 of sales, Walmart pays OKC (and most other cities) their 10% or.......... $100,000.00
> But in Tulsa, on every $1,000.000.00 of sales, WalMart pays only $10,000
> 
> WalMart pays Tulsa $90,000.00 LESS than OKC and most all other cities. 
> ...


It is an incentive that without would cause many drilling rigs packing up for better prospects and there are many better prospect out there all over the world. 

We need to be careful that we don't needlessly and suddenly  devastate many small Oklahoma towns with rash decisions. Fewer jobs would put additional  strain on our states social services.

The, workers, suppliers, manufacturers royalty holders and more all pay taxes to the sate and local governments that in the end exceed the state incentive.

What I would like to see is the incentive tied to the price of crude and NG The higher the prices the lower the incentive and I would like to see the severance tax increased after one year.
When crude  or NG prices are at very high prices I would like to see a certain % go into a state oil /NG fund that would be treated much like an endowment.

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## ou48A

> from your industry.


Everybody needs to remember that if you are a consumer of hydrocarbons you are in that "industry" in much the same way that you are in agriculture, if you eat...... 

In both cases if either are not doing well, its going to eventually impact your life in a bad way. Just like it already has.

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## onthestrip

> It is an incentive that without would cause many drilling rigs packing up for better prospects and there are many better prospect out there all over the world. 
> 
> We need to be careful that we don't needlessly and suddenly  devastate many small Oklahoma towns with rash decisions. Fewer jobs would put additional  strain on our states social services.
> 
> *The, workers, suppliers, manufacturers royalty holders and more all pay taxes to the sate and local governments that in the end exceed the state incentive.*
> 
> What I would like to see is the incentive tied to the price of crude and NG The higher the prices the lower the incentive and I would like to see the severance tax increased after one year.
> When crude  or NG prices are at very high prices I would like to see a certain % go into a state oil /NG fund that would be treated much like an endowment.


It's not. State revenues as a whole are declining. Pretty mucb all because of the $300million reduction in use tax collections. You'd think if things were going as great as they are in our state (low unemployment, income gains etc) that tax collections would go up.

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## Bellaboo

> It's not. State revenues as a whole are declining. Pretty mucb all because of the $300million reduction in use tax collections. You'd think if things were going as great as they are in our state (low unemployment, income gains etc) that tax collections would go up.


Internet sales are the biggest culprit of lost taxes than from any other source.......

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## OKCTalker

> Internet sales are the biggest culprit of lost taxes than from any other source.......


Can you provide a source for that?

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## Of Sound Mind

> Can you provide a source for that?


http://bit.ly/1bVVqKy

http://www.accountingtoday.com/news/...s-67237-1.html

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## onthestrip

> Internet sales are the biggest culprit of lost taxes than from any other source.......


Im all for making internet purchases taxed, as buyers are already required to pay it, its just too easy not to. And the US Senate is for it too and are making attempts to make it law (the House on the other hand might tank it). But to make up the $300million that we lost last year to the horizontal drilling tax reduction, that would mean Oklahomans are spending more than $3.75billion dollars on internet purchases from places that arent already located in the state. Thats based on an 8% sales tax. Im going to guess Okies arent spending that much at amazon.com in a year.

----------


## Of Sound Mind

> Im all for making internet purchases taxed, as buyers are already required to pay it, its just too easy not to. And the US Senate is for it too and are making attempts to make it law (the House on the other hand might tank it). But to make up the $300million that we lost last year to the horizontal drilling tax reduction, that would mean Oklahomans are spending more than $3.75billion dollars on internet purchases from places that arent already located in the state. Thats based on an 8% sales tax. Im going to guess Okies arent spending that much at amazon.com in a year.


He said "biggest culprit," not "the" or "only" culprit.

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## onthestrip

> He said "biggest culprit," not "the" or "only" culprit.


I was pointing out that it _wasn't_ the biggest culprit. The biggest loss isnt from not collecting internet sales taxes, its from the horizontal drilling tax reduction.

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## ou48A

COLUMN-Oklahoma is next destination for shale revolution: Kemp - Yahoo Finance 
 LONDON, Oct 18 (Reuters) -

 Oklahoma is emerging as the next big shale oil play, with production growing faster than in any other U.S. state apart from Texas and North Dakota.

*Thanks in big part to shale, the state's oil output in May, June and July hit the highest level since January 1990.
 Oil output has doubled since the start of 2010, from 160,000 to 320,000 barrels per day, and is showing the sort of exponential growth that characterised other big shale plays* .

 Like Texas and North Dakota, Oklahoma is an old, established oil- and gas-producing state. The state has produced more than 15 billion barrels of oil since 1900, according to the Oklahoma Tax Commission and the Oklahoma Corporation Commission (OCC), which regulates the industry.

 In 2009, the state's landscape was punctured by more than 32,000 oil wells, almost 9 percent of the U.S. total. Only Texas (with 142,000 wells) and California (with 49,000) had more.

 Conventional crude output has been declining continuously since the mid-1980s owing to falling pressure in the oilfields and lack of investment.
 But since 2005, output has started to rise again, as investment, drilling and workovers have risen in response to increased oil prices.
 More recently, the increase in output has accelerated, as exploration and production firms begin to drill into the enormous Woodford shale formation that lies underneath large parts of the state.

 According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA), there are three highly prospective shale plays in the state: the Ardmore, Arkoma and Cana basins, all of which contain parts of the Woodford formation.

 Baker Hughes rig counts show there were 32 rigs drilling for oil in the Ardmore and Cana basins in mid-October, up from just six at the same point in 2011.

 Continental Resources, the leading shale oil producer in the Williston Basin beneath North Dakota and Montana, revealed last year its next big target for development is an area southeast of the Cana play it has dubbed the South Central Oklahoma Oil Province (SCOOP).

 SCOOP is a world-class resource, according to the company, with an oil-rich shale formation up to 400 feet (122 metres) thick. *Continental estimates SCOOP contains up to 70 billion barrels of oil in place.*

 While the company has an obvious interest in talking up prospective production from the acres it has already leased, its optimistic estimates for North Dakota's Bakken have proved more accurate than many more conservative forecasters.

 Continental has already leased 277,000 acres (112,000 hectares) in the area, either on its own or in combination with other developers, according to a presentation it made available to investors in October and available on the company's website.
 The company has participated in the drilling and completion of 93 wells, and is busy delineating the oil-, gas- and liquids-rich parts ("fairways") of the play, as well as identifying the most productive areas.

 The company's share of output from those wells hit 17,550 barrels of oil equivalent per day in the second quarter of 2013, up more than 400 percent compared with a year earlier.

*State oil output is now rising rapidly, up by more than 50,000 barrels per day since the start of the year*, though the increase stalled in June and July.
 Continental has one of the most successful track records in the shale business.

 The company has pioneered a highly efficient, assembly-line approach to drilling and fracturing in the Bakken formation that cut costs and raised production quickly. It claims to be able to achieve rates of return of over 20 percent on a typical shale well with prices as low as $60 per barrel.
 If Continental can bring the same approach to SCOOP, the state's oil and liquids output is set to rise rapidly.

 Oklahoma has other attractive petroleum-rich tight oil formations, such as the Mississippian, which have already attracted strong interest from other specialist shale production companies, notably Devon Energy, the pioneer of shale production in Texas.

 The state is ideally located for a big increase in production. Unlike remote North Dakota, *Oklahoma is already crisscrossed by an extensive network of oil-gathering pipelines and hosts the country's major crude storage and trading hub at Cushing,* with 80 million barrels of storage capacity and extensive links to refineries in the Midwest and Gulf Coast.

----------


## onthestrip

Would be nice if Oklahoma wouldnt have decreased the gross production tax and the state could ride this wave too and be able to invest the added revenues in education, infrastructure, etc. As it is now, oil biz is booming yet state revenues are flat, and could end up down.

----------


## ou48A

> Would be nice if Oklahoma wouldnt have decreased the gross production tax and the state could ride this wave too and be able to invest the added revenues in education, infrastructure, etc. As it is now, oil biz is booming yet state revenues are flat, and could end up down.


The Oklhoma economy has been helped by the incentives for horizontal drilling. Without them we would likely have negative revenues... Without the incentives most horizontal rigs and their thousand of high tax paying jobs would have packed up and moved to other states.... Without the incentives the growth in taxes collected from royalty owners would have been many times less.

But it's now time to end the special incentives for horizontal drilling IMHO. 

With this same money Oklahoma should establish a state oil and NG endowment fund.
I would like to see most of it ear marked for special projects of higher education and used much the same way as Texas has used its Permanent University Fund and invested similarly.

In this way it benefits Oklahoma’s for generations after the oil & gas is gone.

----------


## Bellaboo

> The Oklhoma economy has been helped by the incentives for horizontal drilling. Without them we would likely have negative revenues... Without the incentives most horizontal rigs and their thousand of high tax paying jobs would have packed up and moved to other states.... Without the incentives the growth in taxes collected from royalty owners would have been many times less.
> 
> *But it's now time to end the special incentives for horizontal drilling IMHO.* With this same money Oklahoma should establish a state oil and NG endowment fund.
> I would like to see most of it ear marked for special projects of higher education and used much the same way as Texas has used its Permanent University Fund and invested similarly.
> 
> In this way it benefits Oklahomas for generations after the oil & gas is gone.


Let's wait on this another year, Devon is drilling 8 horizontal wells on our minerals. Just got a copy of the spacing request to the OCC 2 weeks ago.

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## ou48A

> Let's wait on this another year, Devon is drilling 8 horizontal wells on our minerals. Just got a copy of the spacing request to the OCC 2 weeks ago.


Good for you.
 I hope they are all gushers.
This could change your life.

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## Bellaboo

> Good for you.
>  I hope they are all gushers.
> This could change your life.


In western Payne County. I-35 splits one of our sections. 18-18R-1W. Fingers Crossed. No matter what happens, we still roll out of bed in the mornings and go to work.

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## Bellaboo

Not sure if people realize this, but the incentive is a tax break on horizontal drilling production for 48 months only. It reverts back to the standard taxation at that point. It helps with the expensive horizontal drilling techniques. Not all horizontal wells are gushers.

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## DoctorTaco

> Not sure if people realize this, but the incentive is a tax break on horizontal drilling production for 48 months only. It reverts back to the standard taxation at that point. It helps with the expensive horizontal drilling techniques. Not all horizontal wells are gushers.


...but almost all the payout from a successful horizontal well is in the first 36 months (sometimes in the first 6). Horizontal wells have a hell of a steep decline. They still make a profit, it is just that that profit is front-loaded. So by giving a tax break for 48 months you are effectively not taxing that well at all.

----------


## Bellaboo

> ...but almost all the payout from a successful horizontal well is in the first 36 months (sometimes in the first 6). Horizontal wells have a hell of a steep decline. They still make a profit, it is just that that profit is front-loaded. So by giving a tax break for 48 months you are effectively not taxing that well at all.


This could probably be it's own thread - but I don't think the verdict is out  yet - there are huge declines after the max month of production, then in this study by the Texas RRC they find an interesting uptick - not enough data yet for long term analysis. But it may be more promissing than we know.

From an article on the Eagle Ford -

Following is a summary of 7 full months of production from what I call a "max month" to latest numbers (December 2012). All info is based on Tx RRC filings for production (not disposition).

Note that there were two months of production prior to my "max month" but volumes were lower / I am assuming that gathering systems and other issues were getting worked out during this period so I omitted these two months from my analysis.

Note I am not addressing royalty volumes which include gas shrinkage, NGL's and other variations attriibuted to disposition vs. actual production.

Note that the "per cent change" reflects differences from month to month - not from initial max rate month.



For Gas Production
 ■Max Month (120,300 MCF)
 ■Next month - down 5.3% from previous month
 ■Next month - down 12% 
 ■Next month - down 21.9%
 ■Next month - down 12.7%
 ■Next month - down 23.2%
 ■Next month - up 1% from previous month



For Condensate Production
 ■Max Month (38,809 BC)
 ■Next month - down 8.1% from previous month
 ■Next month - down 16.2% 
 ■Next month - down 19.2%
 ■Next month - down 16.5%
 ■Next month - down 22%
 ■Next month - up 0.9% from previous month



This works out to about 56% decline in both products over first 7 months of production.* But the uptick in both products in most recent month is very interesting*.

So in the 9th month of production, it not only evened out but had a slight uptick.

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## ou48A

Hopefully this is a sign that SA will help hold a floor crude price and keep prices from going to low, which would be good for our states economy.

Saudi Arabia throttles back from record high oil output - Yahoo Finance
OPEC heavyweight Saudi Arabia has cut back oil output that had held at record rates of around 10 million barrels a day for three months running to help offset a plunge in output from fellow OPEC member Libya.
The world's top oil exporter turned down the taps to 9.75 million barrels per day (bpd) in October - versus 10.1 million bpd the previous month,

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## ljbab728

OKC's Equal Energy purchased by Tulsa's PetroFLow.

Tulsa-based PetroFlow to buy OKC's Equal Energy | News OK

----------


## ou48A

RIGZONE - TransCanada Readies For Gulf Coast Pipeline Start


CALGARY, Alberta, Dec 17 (Reuters) - TransCanada Corp expects its new 700,000-barrel-per-day Gulf Coast oil pipeline to begin service on Jan. 22, Chief Executive Russ Girling said in an interview on Tuesday. 

The company is currently filling the Cushing, Oklahoma, to Port Arthur, Texas, pipeline with the 3 million barrels of crude oil needed before it can be placed into normal operation. Initial testing is showing no issues with the line and shippers were told of the planned in-service date on Monday. "We need to make sure that we continue to test things as we load the pipeline with oil," Girling said. "Based on our current estimates, January 22 is what we've told our shippers for start-up." 

The Gulf Coast line is the southern leg of TransCanada's controversial Keystone XL project, which, more than five years after the initial filing, is still awaiting a final decision from the Obama Administration. The start-up of the Gulf Coast project will give Canada's oil sands producers their first large-scale access to the refining hub on Texas' Gulf Coast. 

It could also help alleviate steep discounts on Canadian crude, which dropped to more than $40 per barrel below the West Texas Intermediate benchmark last month. Girling said much of the oil on the line will come from shippers on the company's existing 590,000 bpd Keystone pipeline, which takes crude from Hardisty in central Alberta to Cushing. 12 -

----------


## blangtang

This was picked up on npr this morning, mentions CHK and SD. 

 there's an audio link or text!

-----
Hazy Guidance Over Fracking Water Lines Confounds Commissioners and Cowboys

Hazy Guidance Over Fracking Water Lines Confounds Commissioners and Cowboys | StateImpact Oklahoma

----------


## PhiAlpha

> This was picked up on npr this morning, mentions CHK and SD. 
> 
>  there's an audio link or text!
> 
> -----
> Hazy Guidance Over Fracking Water Lines Confounds Commissioners and Cowboys
> 
> Hazy Guidance Over Fracking Water Lines Confounds Commissioners and Cowboys | StateImpact Oklahoma


I was dealing with some of these issues, it's interesting.

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## Bellaboo

I was up at our farms in western Payne county a month or so back, where Devon is doing a lot of drilling. Their lines were aluminum and they snaked them all over, but where they could they would run through culverts under the roads. Where there was an entry gate into a field, they had a small metal temporary bridge over them. Didn't seem to impede driving to me.

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## onthestrip

Well if it matters to big business or special interests, you can count of Speaker TW Shannon being for it. He calls for extending permanently a tax reduction for horizontal drilling, even though its costing our state money and oil companies dont need it to drill. So much for being able to invest in and improve our state during these periods of "economic growth." Even our state treasurer knows this cant stay the way it is.

Make drilling tax break permanent, House Speaker T.W. Shannon says - Tulsa World: Government

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## onthestrip

This guy actually drills wells and he is calling for a end to the horizontal drilling tax reduction.

John A. Brock: It?s time to give the taxpayers a break - Tulsa World: Readers Forum

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## ou48A

Per CNBC..... Natural gas futures are over $ 5 for the first time in 3.5 years....

CNBC said this has been the coldest winter since (1978) - 1979 ....and that 1979 was the coldest winter in 100 years.... I remember it and it was cold. I saw people ice fishing on Kaw lake.

NG prices are likely to decline some in the coming months IMO but this is very good news for Oklahoma's natural gas industry.

----------


## ou48A

With the supply and demand now coming into better balance their may be stock buying opportunity's in the coming months?

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## king183

> With the supply and demand now coming into better balance their may be stock buying opportunity's in the coming months?


NG inventories are substantially below their 5 year average now, so that should provide some price support over the next few months.  Expect the reported draw from the inventories to be big next week.  I wouldn't be surprised if we saw price levels briefly touch $6 before returning to the $4 range in the spring. 

Either way, it's a good price for our NG companies who were struggling with prices near $2-$3 just a little while ago.  It should also be a nice, temporary boost for our tax revenues.

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## PhiAlpha

> NG inventories are substantially below their 5 year average now, so that should provide some price support over the next few months.  Expect the reported draw from the inventories to be big next week.  I wouldn't be surprised if we saw price levels briefly touch $6 before returning to the $4 range in the spring. 
> 
> Either way, it's a good price for our NG companies who were struggling with prices near $2-$3 just a little while ago.  It should also be a nice, temporary boost for our tax revenues.


Higher natural gas prices are definitely good for Chesapeake.

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## ou48A

This article has profound implications for our state, nation and for most of us.

Though long, this information helps the reader see a picture that is much brighter than what many saw just a few short years ago..
 This is one of the very best articles I have ever read on energy.

*Welcome to the Revolution*




Edward L. Morse | The Shale Revolution Is Here to Stay | Foreign Affairs

Despite its doubters and haters, the shale revolution in oil and gas production is here to stay. In the second half of this decade, moreover, it is likely to spread globally more quickly than most think. And all of that is, on balance, a good thing for the world.

The recent surge of U.S. oil and natural gas production has been nothing short of astonishing. For the past three years, the United States has been the world’s fastest-growing hydrocarbon producer, and the trend is not likely to stop anytime soon. U.S. natural gas production has risen by 25 percent since 2010, and the only reason it has temporarily stalled is that investments are required to facilitate further growth. Having already outstripped Russia as the world’s largest gas producer, by the end of the decade, the United States will become one of the world’s largest gas exporters, fundamentally changing pricing and trade patterns in global energy markets. U.S. oil production, meanwhile, has grown by 60 percent since 2008, climbing by three million barrels a day to more than eight million barrels a day. Within a couple of years, it will exceed its old record level of almost ten million barrels a day as the United States overtakes Russia and Saudi Arabia and becomes the world’s largest oil producer. And U.S. production of natural gas liquids, such as propane and butane, has already grown by one million barrels per day and should grow by another million soon.

What is unfolding in reaction is nothing less than a paradigm shift in thinking about hydrocarbons. A decade ago, there was a near-global consensus that U.S. (and, for that matter, non-OPEC) production was in inexorable decline. Today, most serious analysts are confident that it will continue to grow. The growth is occurring, to boot, at a time when U.S. oil consumption is falling. (Forget peak oil production; given a combination of efficiency gains, environmental concerns, and substitution by natural gas, what is foreseeable is peak oil demand.) And to cap things off, the costs of finding and producing oil and gas in shale and tight rock formations are steadily going down and will drop even more in the years to come.

The evidence from what has been happening is now overwhelming. Efficiency gains in the shale sector have been large and accelerating and are now hovering at around 25 percent per year, meaning that increases in capital expenditures are triggering even more potential production growth. It is clear that vast amounts of hydrocarbons have migrated from their original source rock and become trapped in shale and tight rock, and the extent of these rock formations, like the extent of the original source rock, is enormous -- containing resources far in excess of total global conventional proven oil reserves, which are 1.5 trillion barrels. And there are already signs that the technology involved in extracting these resources is transferable outside the United States, so that its international spread is inevitable.

In short, it now looks as though the first few decades of the twenty-first century will see an extension of the trend that has persisted for the past few millennia: the availability of plentiful energy at ever-lower cost and with ever-greater efficiency, enabling major advances in global economic growth.

WHY THE PAST IS PROLOGUE

The shale revolution has been very much a “made in America” phenomenon. In no other country can landowners also own mineral rights. In only a few other countries (such as Australia, Canada, and the United Kingdom) is there a tradition of an energy sector featuring many independent entrepreneurial companies, as opposed to a few major companies or national champions. And in still fewer countries are there capital markets able and willing to support financially risky exploration and production.

This powerful combination of indigenous factors will continue to drive U.S. efforts. A further 30 percent increase in U.S. natural gas production is plausible before 2020, and from then on, it should be possible to maintain a constant or even higher level of production for decades to come. As for oil, given the research and development now under way, it is likely that U.S. production could rise to 12 million barrels per day or more in a few years and be sustained there for a long time. (And that figure does not include additional potential output from deep-water drilling, which is also seeing a renaissance in investment.)

Two factors, meanwhile, should bring prices down for a long time to come. The first is declining production costs, a consequence of efficiency gains from the application of new and growing technologies. And the second is the spread of shale gas and tight oil production globally. Together, these suggest a sustainable price of around $5.50 per thousand cubic feet for natural gas in the United States and a trading range of $70–$90 per barrel for oil globally by the end of this decade.

These trends will provide a significant boost to the U.S. economy. Households could save close to $30 billion annually in electricity costs by 2020, compared to the U.S. Energy Information Administration’s current forecast. Gasoline costs could fall from an average of five percent to three percent of real disposable personal income. The price of gasoline could drop by 30 percent, increasing annual disposable income by $750, on average, per driving household. The oil and gas boom could add about 2.8 percent in cumulative GDP growth by 2020 and bolster employment by some three million jobs.

Beyond the United States, the spread of shale gas and tight oil exploitation should have geopolitically profound implications. There is no longer any doubt about the sheer abundance of this new accessible resource base, and that recognition is leading many governments to accelerate the delineation and development of commercially available resources. Countries’ motivations are diverse and clear. For Saudi Arabia, which is already developing its first power plant using indigenous shale gas, the exploitation of its shale resources can free up more oil for exports, increasing revenues for the country as a whole. For Russia, with an estimated 75 billion barrels of recoverable tight oil (50 percent more than the United States), production growth spells more government revenue. And for a host of other countries, the motivations range from reducing dependence on imports to increasing export earnings to enabling domestic economic development.

RISKY BUSINESS?

Skeptics point to three problems that could lead the fruits of the revolution to be left to wither on the vine: environmental regulation, declining rates of production, and drilling economics. But none is likely to be catastrophic.

Hydraulic fracturing, or “fracking” -- the process of injecting sand, water, and chemicals into shale rocks to crack them open and release the hydrocarbons trapped inside -- poses potential environmental risks, such as the draining or polluting of underground aquifers, the spurring of seismic activity, and the spilling of waste products during their aboveground transport. All these risks can be mitigated, and they are in fact being addressed in the industry’s evolving set of best practices. But that message needs to be delivered more clearly, and best practices need to be implemented across the board, in order to head off local bans or restrictive regulation that would slow the revolution’s spread or minimize its impact.

As for declining rates of production, fracking creates a surge in production at the beginning of a well’s operation and a rapid drop later on, and critics argue that this means that the revolution’s purported gains will be illusory. But there are two good reasons to think that high production will continue for decades rather than years. First, the accumulation of fracked wells with a long tail of production is building up a durable base of flows that will continue over time, and second, the economics of drilling work in favor of drilling at a high and sustained rate of production.

Finally, some criticize the economics of fracking, but these concerns have been exaggerated. It is true that through 2013, the upstream sector of the U.S. oil and gas industry has been massively cash-flow negative. In 2012, for example, the industry spent about $60 billion more than it earned, and some analysts believe that such trends will continue. But the costs were driven by the need to acquire land for exploration and to pursue unproductive drilling in order to hold the acreage. Now that the land-grab days are almost over, the industry’s cash flow should be increasingly positive.

It is also true that traditional finding and development costs indicate that natural gas prices need to be above $4 per thousand cubic feet and oil prices above $70 per barrel for the economics of drilling to work -- which suggests that abundant production might drive prices down below what is profitable. But as demand grows for natural gas -- for industry, residential and commercial space heating, the export market, power generation, and transportation -- prices should rise to a level that can sustain increased drilling: the $5–$6 range, which is about where prices were this past winter. Efficiency gains stemming from new technology, meanwhile, are driving down break-even drilling costs. In the oil sector, most drilling now brings an adequate return on investment at prices below $50 per barrel, and within a few years, that level could be under $40 per barrel.

THINK GLOBALLY

Since shale resources are found around the globe, many countries are trying to duplicate the United States’ success in the sector, and it is likely that some, and perhaps many, will succeed. U.S. recoverable shale resources constitute only about 15 percent of the global total, and so if the true extent and duration of even the U.S. windfall are not yet measurable, the same applies even more so for the rest of the world. Many countries are already taking early steps to develop their shale resources, and in several, the results look promising. It is highly likely that Australia, China, Mexico, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and the United Kingdom will see meaningful production before the end of this decade. As a result, global trade in energy will be dramatically disrupted.

A few years ago, hydrocarbon exports from the United States were negligible. But by the start of 2013, oil, natural gas, and *petrochemicals had become the single largest category of U.S. exports, surpassing agricultural products, transportation equipment, and capital goods*. The shift in the U.S. trade balance for petroleum products has been stunning. In 2008, the United States was a net importer of petroleum products, taking in about two million barrels per day; by the end of 2013, it was a net exporter, with an outflow of more than two million barrels per day. By the end of 2014, the United States should overtake Russia as the largest exporter of diesel, jet fuel, and other energy products, and by 2015, it should overtake Saudi Arabia as the largest exporter of petrochemical feedstocks. *The U.S. trade balance for oil, which in 2011 was −$354 billion, should flip to +$5 billion by 2020.*

By then, the United States will be a net exporter of natural gas, on a scale potentially rivaling both Qatar and Russia, and the consequences will be enormous. The U.S. gas trade balance should shift from −$8 billion in 2013 to +$14 billion by 2020. U.S. pipeline exports to Mexico and eastern Canada are likely to grow by 400 percent, to eight billion cubic feet per day, by 2018, and perhaps to ten billion by 2020. U.S. exports of liquefied natural gas (LNG) look likely to reach nine billion cubic feet per day by 2020.

Sheer volume is important, but not as much as two other factors: the pricing basis and the amount of natural gas that can be sold in a spot market. Most LNG trade links the price of natural gas to the price of oil. But the shale gas revolution has delinked these two prices in the United States, where the traditional 7:1 ratio between oil and gas prices has exploded to more than 20:1. That makes LNG exports from the United States competitive with LNG exports from Qatar or Russia, eroding the oil link in LNG pricing. What’s more, traditional LNG contracts are tied to specific destinations and prohibit trading. U.S. LNG (and likely also new LNG from Australia and Canada) will not come with anticompetitive trade restrictions, and so a spot market should emerge quickly. And U.S. LNG exports to Europe should erode the Russian state oil company Gazprom’s pricing hold on the continent, just as they should bring down prices of natural gas around the world.

In* the geopolitics of energy, there are always winners and losers. OPEC will be among the latter*, as the United States moves from having had a net hydrocarbon trade deficit of some nine million barrels per day in 2007, to having one of under six million barrels today, to enjoying a net positive position by 2020. Lost market share and lower prices could pose a devastating challenge to oil producers dependent on exports for government revenue. Growing populations and declining per capita incomes are already playing a central role in triggering domestic upheaval in Iraq, Libya, Nigeria, and Venezuela, and in that regard, the years ahead do not look promising for those countries.

At the same time, the U.S. economy might actually start approaching energy independence. And the shale revolution should also lead to the prevalence of market forces in international energy pricing, putting an end to OPEC’s 40-year dominance, during which producers were able to band together to raise prices well above production costs, with negative consequences for the world economy. When it comes to oil and natural gas, we now know that though much is taken, much abides -- and the shale revolution is only just getting started.

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## coov23

So, if oil drops to 70-90 dollars a barrel, won't that cause energy companies to hire less? Thus, slowing okc's economy?

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## ylouder

> Hydraulic fracturing, or “fracking” -- the process of injecting sand, water, and chemicals into shale rocks to crack them open and release the hydrocarbons trapped inside -- poses potential environmental risks, such as the draining or polluting of underground aquifers, the spurring of seismic activity, and the spilling of waste products during their aboveground transport. All these risks can be mitigated, and they are in fact being addressed in the industry’s evolving set of best practices. But that message needs to be delivered more clearly, _and best practices need to be implemented across the board,_ in order to head off local bans or restrictive regulation that would slow the revolution’s spread or minimize its impact.


Here is my problem. All b.s. and special interest aside we know that we are 
-draining and permanently polluting 2-6 millions of gallons of clean surface and ground water per well that is then removed from the water cycle
-its injected into waste wells that are below the water table for hopefully 'permanent' disposal 
-that also happens to be creating the dozens of daily earthquakes
-we also know that there is very little true oversite in these disposal wells and there is the possibility of the toxic and contaminated water making its way through a broken casing back into the very ground water we drink ---especially over time.

The jobs are good and we are rolling in cash like a boom town hooker but we have to address what in the heck are we going to drink once something big goes wrong. I have no problem with fracing, i have a problem that some of the profits arent being invested to develop a waste water cleaning system so we can reuse the water over again in a new well. 

Its just a matter of time before people start popping up with cancer left and right and as a population we know the oil companies will be long gone and we oklahomans will be stuck with water problems ourselves. Then we will have every dick, jane and mary who worked for those oil companies during the boom and now are unemployed crying about their dying babies and 4 dollar a gallon water because they cant use their water wells or water their fields. We have government built waste water disposal wells here in okc at tinker afb. These cost millions of dollars when they were built and had tons of oversite and a few years later there are plumes of toxic chemicals that have spread and contaminated surrounding areas drinking water. So for someone to say that a small private company with 10 employees thats a LLC independant subcontractor of a big oil company that self regulates and drills its own private disposal wells is going to guarantee it wont ever leak from now to eternity? 

Around 2008 boone pickens started talking about water rights and how he started investing in them, i didnt understand it at the time or why the states and tribes started fighting over water rights but they know that we are fastly approaching a point of no return. Meanwhile every time there is a earthquake you have every non college graduate who finally has a job driving a oil field truck saying how we been fracing for 100 years(which is completely false) and its perfectly safe and all the liberal tree huggers(also completely false) need to go go fast and furious, obummer, socialist, teaparty, irs, bengazi....and what ever else nonsense they are parroting that day.

I'm no tree hugger, but when billionaires and states start fighting over drinking water then idiots need to start paying attention, this acceptance of 'self regulating best practices' needs to be a red flag but people are willing ignorant.

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## PWitty

> Here is my problem. All b.s. and special interest aside we know that we are 
> *-draining and permanently polluting 2-6 millions of gallons of clean surface and ground water per well that is then removed from the water cycle*
> -its injected into waste wells that are below the water table for hopefully 'permanent' disposal 
> -that also happens to be creating the dozens of daily earthquakes
> -we also know that there is very little true oversite in these disposal wells and there is the possibility of the toxic and contaminated water making its way through a broken casing back into the very ground water we drink ---especially over time.


First off, the exact number is going to vary from well-to-well, but a majority of the water that is injected during fracturing operations is returned within the first year the well is put on production. The water is just used as a medium to carry the proppant (sand) down into the fractures. It's not intended to stay there permanently, nor does it. This seems to be a common misconception. The water that is produced back to the surface is called "waste water", but it is really just brine water (salt water) with small concentrations of other minerals mixed in as well (it was sitting 7,000 ft underground in old rock formations after all). This water can be put through a water treatment plant to separate out the salt and heavy minerals if need be, but often times it is just disposed of in injection wells (as you said) because that is the cheapest alternative. But purifying this water would be no different, for the most part, than the desalination processes that California is looking into so that they can use sea water for farming/irrigation during times of drought. The main problem is that right now desalination treatments are expensive, but there is plenty of money to be made if someone can come up with a more efficient process. I'll also point out that a lot of companies are recycling produced water and using it for fracturing operations instead of using all fresh water. Usage varies depending on what part of the country you're in and who the operator is, but it is taking place. 

Second, the combustion of any petroleum feedstock (gasoline, natural gas/methane, etc.) gives off H2O as a product in the reaction. I don't know the exact ratio of water created from combustion versus water injected during frac jobs, but from most research I've seen it seems to be a pretty favorable number in terms of the overall water cycle. Any produced water recycling or produced water purification that takes place on top of that just adds even more water into the cycle. 

I'll also add that we HAVE been hydraulically fracturing wells for almost 100 years. The difference today is that they are completing multi-stage horizontal wells instead of single-stage vertical wells. They also use a friction-reducing (FR) compound so that they can achieve higher pump rates without exceeding their maximum pump pressure. That is why a lot of people call it "slickwater" fracturing. Other chemicals are only used in certain situations, and when they are utilized the volumes that are used are minuscule. Service companies will also pump low concentration acid jobs to clean out the perforations before the frac job begins, but once again acid jobs have been taking place for almost 100 years as well. The only new thing about completion jobs today, as I said, are that they are completed in horizontal wellbores, the job is done in multiple stages instead of a single stage, and the utilization of FR to increase pump rates.

I didn't mean to rant, but since I've already gone this long, I'll add that even if we didn't need fossil fuels to generate electricity we would still need fossil fuels. That is something that most people I meet fail to understand. Steel, plastics, polymers, textiles, pharmaceuticals, cosmetics, etc. all require materials derived from petroleum/coal to make them. We can eventually move away from needing them for electricity but until someone can invent new ways to make all these everyday items via alternative processes, we will always need fossil fuels.

As a final send off, I'll add that I don't think there is another topic that exists that the general public knows so little about yet has such strong opinions on. I would guess that at least 90% of people who are opposed to oil and gas drilling have no idea of the science, technology, or chemistry that goes into it. Which is why it is so frustrating trying to inform others on how it actually works. You can't win an argument using science and facts against someone who lacks the understanding or refuses to try and understand at all.

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## bradh

PWitty dropping knowledge, very good post.

I would venture to say that whoever can come up with a cost effective way to turn saltwater to drinking water will make aore influential discovery than someone who would find a cure for cancer.

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## ou48A

> First off, the exact number is going to vary from well-to-well, but a majority of the water that is injected during fracturing operations is returned within the first year the well is put on production. The water is just used as a medium to carry the proppant (sand) down into the fractures. It's not intended to stay there permanently, nor does it. This seems to be a common misconception. The water that is produced back to the surface is called "waste water", but it is really just brine water (salt water) with small concentrations of other minerals mixed in as well (it was sitting 7,000 ft underground in old rock formations after all). This water can be put through a water treatment plant to separate out the salt and heavy minerals if need be, but often times it is just disposed of in injection wells (as you said) because that is the cheapest alternative. But purifying this water would be no different, for the most part, than the desalination processes that California is looking into so that they can use sea water for farming/irrigation during times of drought. The main problem is that right now desalination treatments are expensive, but there is plenty of money to be made if someone can come up with a more efficient process. I'll also point out that a lot of companies are recycling produced water and using it for fracturing operations instead of using all fresh water. Usage varies depending on what part of the country you're in and who the operator is, but it is taking place. 
> 
> Second, the combustion of any petroleum feedstock (gasoline, natural gas/methane, etc.) gives off H2O as a product in the reaction. I don't know the exact ratio of water created from combustion versus water injected during frac jobs, but from most research I've seen it seems to be a pretty favorable number in terms of the overall water cycle. Any produced water recycling or produced water purification that takes place on top of that just adds even more water into the cycle. 
> 
> I'll also add that we HAVE been hydraulically fracturing wells for almost 100 years. The difference today is that they are completing multi-stage horizontal wells instead of single-stage vertical wells. They also use a friction-reducing (FR) compound so that they can achieve higher pump rates without exceeding their maximum pump pressure. That is why a lot of people call it "slickwater" fracturing. Other chemicals are only used in certain situations, and when they are utilized the volumes that are used are minuscule. Service companies will also pump low concentration acid jobs to clean out the perforations before the frac job begins, but once again acid jobs have been taking place for almost 100 years as well. The only new thing about completion jobs today, as I said, are that they are completed in horizontal wellbores, the job is done in multiple stages instead of a single stage, and the utilization of FR to increase pump rates.
> 
> I didn't mean to rant, but since I've already gone this long, I'll add that even if we didn't need fossil fuels to generate electricity we would still need fossil fuels. That is something that most people I meet fail to understand. Steel, plastics, polymers, textiles, pharmaceuticals, cosmetics, etc. all require materials derived from petroleum/coal to make them. We can eventually move away from needing them for electricity but until someone can invent new ways to make all these everyday items via alternative processes, we will always need fossil fuels.
> 
> As a final send off, I'll add that *I don't think there is another topic that exists that the general public knows so little about yet has such strong opinions on. I would guess that at least 90% of people who are opposed to oil and gas drilling have no idea of the science, technology, or chemistry that goes into it. Which is why it is so frustrating trying to inform others on how it actually works. You can't win an argument using science and facts against someone who lacks the understanding or refuses to try and understand at all.*


Very good post PWitty
The bold part is so very true! 

Most college graduates working in the oil and NG field eventually figure out that a college degree even if its specific to energy, doesn’t teach them nearly enough about the industry. Anyone who thinks they know enough about this just because they have a college degree is an arrogant idiot. The oil & NG field is still one place where real world experience and good common sense smarts can easily trump any college degree....

 But there are many highly specialized PhD’s who after years of experience understand the issues of  fracking. The fracking process is being made safer and better all the time. Some fracking solution are made of ingredients that are 100% used in food industry....that some people have literally been willing to drink.

Things such as the vehicles we drive, farm / ranch pollution cause far more air and water pollution.

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## ylouder

> 1-First off, the exact number is going to vary from well-to-well, but a majority of the water that is injected during fracturing operations is returned within the first year the well is put on production. 
> 
> 2-The water is just used as a medium to carry the proppant (sand) down into the fractures. It's not intended to stay there permanently, nor does it. This seems to be a common misconception. 
> 
> 3- but often times it is just disposed of in injection wells (as you said) because that is the cheapest alternative. The main problem is that right now desalination treatments are expensive, but there is plenty of money to be made if someone can come up with a more efficient process. I'll also point out that a lot of companies are recycling produced water and using it for fracturing operations instead of using all fresh water. Usage varies depending on what part of the country you're in and who the operator is, but it is taking place. 
> 
> 4 - Second, the combustion of any petroleum feedstock (gasoline, natural gas/methane, etc.) gives off H2O as a product in the reaction. I don't know the exact ratio of water created from combustion versus water injected during frac jobs, but from most research I've seen it seems to be a pretty favorable number in terms of the overall water cycle. Any produced water recycling or produced water purification that takes place on top of that just adds even more water into the cycle. 
> 
> 5- I'll also add that we HAVE been hydraulically fracturing wells for almost 100 years. The difference today is that they are completing multi-stage horizontal wells instead of single-stage vertical wells. They also use a friction-reducing (FR) compound so that they can achieve higher pump rates without exceeding their maximum pump pressure. That is why a lot of people call it "slickwater" fracturing. Other chemicals are only used in certain situations, and when they are utilized the volumes that are used are minuscule. Service companies will also pump low concentration acid jobs to clean out the perforations before the frac job begins, but once again acid jobs have been taking place for almost 100 years as well. The only new thing about completion jobs today, as I said, are that they are completed in horizontal wellbores, the job is done in multiple stages instead of a single stage, and the utilization of FR to increase pump rates.
> ...


You made a whole lot of assumptions about my perceived lack of knowledge of the process; but thanks for taking the time to type it all out.  

1-No where in my post did i say i thought it stayed in the fracturing well, I said that final storage is in the waste water well and i even mentioned where alot of third parties handle that part of the process since the well has long since been completed. 

2-See above

3- Here is where we can start to have a conversation. I agree, its very expensive to treat the water and the cheapest way is by drilling an even deeper well and injecting it for permanent disposal. This is my problem, and also its the cause of all of our earthquakes since we live in an area with dormant faults and the waste disposal wells are causing them to become active again. Where the water goes when the fault shifts, no one knows?

4- Common, seriously. Your going to say the offshoot of burning fossil fuels could potentially offset the 2-5 million gallons we use to frac a well, and that is ultimately left in the frac well or in a disposal well. Your grasping at straws. There are numerous towns in texas that have had their entire ground water supplies drained because of industry use. Maybe they need to put a bag over their tail pipe and drink the condensation. 

5- As i mentioned in my previous post, (and as you also explain) this is absolutely 100 percent false. Fracing today no way resembles the fracing methods of yesteryear. Its like saying people have been using computers for the last 500 years the same as today. They in no way resemble each other besides by name.

6- I hate when people use this argument and you and I both know its also false. No one has ever doubted that millions of everyday goods surrounding using modern life started of as a petro-based chemical. But to jump to life as we know it will end if we stop using a method of extracting natural gas since 2007 is a joke.  

Outside of your ridiculous assumptions about me and my knowledge (im guessing you were hungover by the sheer amount of effort you put into it) - my concern has been and will always been the waste water wells. Its causing the earthquakes and with the appalling lack of true over site we could very shortly face a huge problem down the road with contaminated ground water supplies. I'm no tree hugging liberal, i drive a f-150 and commute over an hour a day, and a have fractional ownership in natural gas wells that have been passed down from my great grandparents land in pittsburg county, oklahoma. 

I just think more industry money and effort needs to be devoted to finding a way to reuse waste water instead of pumping it down a hole and hoping for the best.




> I'm no tree hugger, but when billionaires and states start fighting over water rights then idiots need to start paying attention, this acceptance of 'self regulating best practices' needs to be a red flag but people are willing ignorant.

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## ou48A

> I just think more industry money and effort needs to be devoted to finding a way to reuse waste water instead of pumping it down a hole and hoping for the best.


In case you don't know there are waterless fracing methods that you sound like you would probably be  promoting if you knew anything at all about them.... Have you even been on a frac job.....?

 I have helped in the completion many oil & NG wells. 99% of the problems with frac-jobs occur on the surface and that’s a fact that’s not changed in many, many decades.

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## PWitty

I never made any assumptions about you specifically, I was speaking in generalities about the public as a whole. There is a large lack of understanding in the general public about what does and doesn't actually go on, and how it is done. Even among engineers/scientists there is a lack of understanding (like ou48A said), because so much of what goes on in the oil and gas industry is so different than most other engineering disciplines. O&G also requires an understanding of geology, and outside of PE's and certain groups of Civil's most engineering/science professionals don't have a lot of experience with structural geology or geophysics. 

As for the amount of water created from combusting natural gas, you would be extremely surprised. This is a pretty back-of-the-envelope calculation (and I'm not going to take the time to type out all the math), but if you look around the internet most research you find will be pretty similar. Now for a little chemistry:

CH4[g] + 2 O2[g] -> CO2[g] + 2 H2O[g] + energy (general formula for the combustion of methane)

An average dry-gas shale well produces around 1 BCF of methane (natural gas) within the first 2 years of production (a pretty conservative assumption for most dry gas fields such as the Haynesville or the Marcellus North). 1 BCF is equal to 42 million lbs of methane. From the balanced equation above you can see that the molar ratio of (water produced) : (methane reacted) is 2:1. Converting to a mass ratio gives you 2.25:1. So 2.25 lbs of water is created for every 1 lb of methane that is reacted. Therefore, reacting 42 million lbs of methane will produce 94.5 million lbs of water. The density of water is roughly 8.3 lb/gal, so 94.5 million lbs of water can be converted to 11.4 million gallons. 

So in just the first two years, almost 3 times the amount of water that was injected downhole and taken out of the water cycle (assuming 4 million gallons of water was used during fracturing operations and none returned to the surface) is returned to the water cycle in the form of water vapor from burning the natural gas that was produced.

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## PhiAlpha

> In case you don't know there are waterless fracing methods that you sound like you would probably be  promoting if you knew anything at all about them.... Have you even been on a frac job.....?
> 
>  I have helped in the completion many oil & NG wells. 99% of the problems with frac-jobs occur on the surface and thats a fact thats not changed in many, many decades.


Also, efforts are being made to reuse frac water and service companies are researching ways to reuse more of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## PhiAlpha

> I never made any assumptions about you specifically, I was speaking in generalities about the public as a whole. There is a large lack of understanding in the general public about what does and doesn't actually go on, and how it is done. Even among engineers/scientists there is a lack of understanding (like ou48A said), because so much of what goes on in the oil and gas industry is so different than most other engineering disciplines. O&G also requires an understanding of geology, and outside of PE's and certain groups of Civil's most engineering/science professionals don't have a lot of experience with structural geology or geophysics. 
> 
> As for the amount of water created from combusting natural gas, you would be extremely surprised. This is a pretty back-of-the-envelope calculation (and I'm not going to take the time to type out all the math), but if you look around the internet most research you find will be pretty similar. Now for a little chemistry:
> 
> CH4[g] + 2 O2[g] -> CO2[g] + 2 H2O[g] + energy (general formula for the combustion of methane)
> 
> An average dry-gas shale well produces around 1 BCF of methane (natural gas) within the first 2 years of production (a pretty conservative assumption for most dry gas fields such as the Haynesville or the Marcellus North). 1 BCF is equal to 42 million lbs of methane. From the balanced equation above you can see that the molar ratio of (water produced) : (methane reacted) is 2:1. Converting to a mass ratio gives you 2.25:1. So 2.25 lbs of water is created for every 1 lb of methane that is reacted. Therefore, reacting 42 million lbs of methane will produce 94.5 million lbs of water. The density of water is roughly 8.3 lb/gal, so 94.5 million lbs of water can be converted to 11.4 million gallons. 
> 
> So in just the first two years, almost 3 times the amount of water that was injected downhole and taken out of the water cycle (assuming 4 million gallons of water was used during fracturing operations and none returned to the surface) is returned to the water cycle in the form of water vapor from burning the natural gas that was produced.


...drops the mic (at least on the water offset point)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Bellaboo

Devon has been recycling flow back water from the frac process since 2008 -

Cana water reuse project helps Devon overcome drought

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## HangryHippo

PWitty, your posts have been very informative.  I'm enjoying the insights.

Let me ask you a question regarding the burning of natural gas and the return of water vapor into the water cycle.  Isn't this increase in water vapor in the atmosphere responsible (at least somewhat) for the increased greenhouse effects Earth is experiencing?  And we don't necessarily see that returned to Earth's surface in liquid form because of the increased vapor content in the atmosphere, correct?

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## Bellaboo

PWitty you were close on Hydraulic Fracking - closer to 100 years than you'd think - since 1947 - that's going on 70 years .....





Schematic depiction of hydraulic fracturing for shale gas.



Process type

Mechanical



Industrial sector(s)

Mining


Main technologies or sub-processes

Fluid pressure


Product(s)

Natural gas
 Petroleum


Inventor

Floyd Farris; J.B. Clark (Stanolind Oil and Gas Corporation)


Year of invention

1947


Hydraulic fracturing is the fracturing of rock by a pressurized liquid.

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## ou48A

> PWitty, your posts have been very informative.  I'm enjoying the insights.
> 
> Let me ask you a question regarding the burning of natural gas and the return of water vapor into the water cycle.  Isn't this increase in water vapor in the atmosphere responsible (at least somewhat) for the increased greenhouse effects Earth is experiencing?  And we don't necessarily see that returned to Earth's surface in liquid form because of the increased vapor content in the atmosphere, correct?


The net amount of water vapor added to the atmosphere from burned NG is so small that it probably wouldn’t register. Irrigation would be adding billions of times more of water vapor!

The vast majority of water is removed at the well site. 
For about 80 years that I know of, some fields have had an extensive network of dewatering pipelines that carry naturally occurring salt water away to disposal wells that have been drilled at considerable expense. In locations where less water is produced it's trucked.

NG has a dew point that the NG pipeline company's control. They normally extract the water vapor using dehydrators. The most common method I have operated uses glycol, but I have seen  descant bead systems. NG with a high dew point can freeze off large pipelines. Regular pipeline pigging maintenance helps remove any liquid build up that can include condensate. Large amounts of liquids in NG transmission pipelines will create a very dangerous situation for compressors.

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## ou48A

> PWitty you were close on Hydraulic Fracking - closer to 100 years than you'd think - since 1947 - that's going on 70 years .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Schematic depiction of hydraulic fracturing for shale gas.
> 
> 
> ...


This history of fracking dates back much further than 1947. 
It dates back to the mid to late 1800's.

However the very first hydraulic frack-job occurred in 1949 near Duncan OK.

PS: Some drinking water wells have been fracked.

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## PWitty

> PWitty, your posts have been very informative.  I'm enjoying the insights.
> 
> Let me ask you a question regarding the burning of natural gas and the return of water vapor into the water cycle.  Isn't this increase in water vapor in the atmosphere responsible (at least somewhat) for the increased greenhouse effects Earth is experiencing?  And we don't necessarily see that returned to Earth's surface in liquid form because of the increased vapor content in the atmosphere, correct?


Thanks Hemingstein.

That's a good question. I'm no expert on hydrology but I'll take a stab at it. 

Although it doesn't get as much publicity as CO2 or other "greenhouse gases", water vapor is a greenhouse gas like you said. By burning natural gas we are in essence creating extra surface H2O that wouldn't have otherwise taken part in the Earth's water cycle. This water vapor "cools" as it rises up into the atmosphere until it eventually condenses to form clouds or precipitation. So I would assume that the extra water vapor that rises and cools in the atmosphere would lead to an increase in the amount of cloud formation and precipitation that takes place. The water vapor can't escape the laws of physics, so it will eventually cool enough that it will condense and fall back to Earth. Having said that, because of the increased temperature on Earth's surface due to the greenhouse effect I could see the water vapor potentially taking longer to cool and condense. I'm not 100% sure though. I have read that the depletion of below-ground water aquifers is suspected to be partly to blame for the rise in global sea-levels, because we are taking water that was initially trapped underground (and therefore not part of the Earth's natural water cycle) and introducing it into the water cycle by drawing it above ground to the surface. This is essentially the same situation that we're talking about here. So I would assume that the same reasoning applies and that the extra water vapor isn't all trapped in the atmosphere, but instead leads to an increase in the amount of precipitation that falls back to Earth during the condensation phase of the water cycle.

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## onthestrip

Well, it apparent that Oklahoma doesnt even shy away from letting big oil make the legislative and tax decisions at the capital. Sure, they could give their input but this basically shows that they are the ones making the decisions. Quite pathetic, no matter how you feel about the oil industry.

Gov. Mary Fallin, Oklahoma lawmakers react to tax proposal from Devon, Chesapeake, Continental | News OK

And here is an oilman (Kaiser) that is fine with putting the interests of the state above his own.
Higher taxes have little impact on drilling, George Kaiser says | News OK

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## Plutonic Panda

Some interring articles 

State's energy boom reflected in rising drilling rig counts | News OK

Energy giants float production tax proposal for Oklahoma | News OK

Fallin is nothing but a tool.

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## Plutonic Panda

GE Announces Plan To Partner With Devon Energy - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

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## onthestrip

Apparently even Tom Ward is for raising the gross production tax on drilling. Thats 3 big execs for raising it (Ward, Kaiser, Schusterman) against 3 for getting things for free (Lawler, Nichols, Hamm). I think its always wise not to take the first offer in negotiations, which is why the state shouldnt just accept this 2% proposal by oil execs. 

Tulsa World Editorial: Don't rush to judgment on severance tax issue - Tulsa World: Editorials

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## onthestrip

*duplicate

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## Plutonic Panda

You know, if were in charge of a multi-billion dollar oil company, I'd support it because I'd want the state I live in to be better than it is, but that's just me.

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## Dustin

duplicate.

----------


## Dustin

*LIKE*

Oil Man George Kaiser Proposes Increase in Oklahoma Oil-and-Gas Tax - WSJ.com

----------


## onthestrip

Regarding the gross production tax, some things have been said how its more costly to drill in Oklahoma and is not as great as a return as other states that have higher drilling taxes like Texas and ND. Well it appears these companies dont say this to investors. Read section 2 in this article to see a report showing that certain plays in Oklahoma have a better return than other states. So so much for that "bad rock" argument.

It's time to end the horizontal drilling tax break  Oklahoma Policy Institute

Here is the actual report that I am referring to.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Statements.pdf

----------


## moose

> Regarding the gross production tax, some things have been said how its more costly to drill in Oklahoma and is not as great as a return as other states that have higher drilling taxes like Texas and ND. Well it appears these companies dont say this to investors. Read section 2 in this article to see a report showing that certain plays in Oklahoma have a better return than other states. So so much for that "bad rock" argument.
> 
> It's time to end the horizontal drilling tax break  Oklahoma Policy Institute
> 
> Here is the actual report that I am referring to.
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Statements.pdf


Yep, you just figured it out.

----------


## HangryHippo

> Yep, you just figured it out.


Perhaps you could contribute something supporting your position?

----------


## moose

> Perhaps you could contribute something supporting your position?


I have discussed in another thread with onthestrip.  In that thread I said the Woodford/SCOOP compared favorably with some of the more well known plays, ie Bakken & Eagleford and will be drilled regardless of what the legislature does with the tax rate.  I believe the production tax should be higher than 1%.  However, I explained that it will have a real impact on activity while others who have no real understanding of the industry and how decisions about allocations are made are more focused on punishing prosperity.

http://www.okctalk.com/politics/3742...e-capitol.html

----------


## HangryHippo

> I have discussed in another thread with onthestrip.  In that thread I said the Woodford/SCOOP compared favorably with some of the more well known plays, ie Bakken & Eagleford and will be drilled regardless of what the legislature does with the tax rate.  I believe the production tax should be higher than 1%.  However, I explained that it will have a real impact on activity while others who have no real understanding of the industry and how decisions about allocations are made are more focused on punishing prosperity.
> 
> http://www.okctalk.com/politics/3742...e-capitol.html


What do you think the production tax should be?  If there are real, demonstrable impacts on the activity at 7%, then we can address that, but 1% is a slap in the face.

----------


## onthestrip

> I have discussed in another thread with onthestrip.  In that thread I said the Woodford/SCOOP compared favorably with some of the more well known plays, ie Bakken & Eagleford and will be drilled regardless of what the legislature does with the tax rate.  I believe the production tax should be higher than 1%.  However, I explained that it will have a real impact on activity *while others who have no real understanding of the industry and how decisions about allocations are made are more focused on punishing prosperity.*
> 
> http://www.okctalk.com/politics/3742...e-capitol.html


Are you saying that Kaiser, Schusterman, and Ward, who are in favor of a higher tax, dont have a real understanding of the industry? Interesting...

----------


## moose

> Are you saying that Kaiser, Schusterman, and Ward, who are in favor of a higher tax, dont have a real understanding of the industry? Interesting...


No, I'm generally talking about the people here.  Those folks have enough understanding to make a reasoned argument for or against, you don't.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Are you saying that Kaiser, Schusterman, and Ward, who are in favor of a higher tax, dont have a real understanding of the industry? Interesting...


Regardless of what any of them say, increasing the production tax at all will hurt smaller energy companies a lot more than it will hurt any of the large or well funded companies that these guys represent. Smaller energy companies have much thinner margins for success and any increase in costs will have a negative effect on them. 


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## PhiAlpha

Duplicate

----------


## Dubya61

> Regardless of what any of them say, increasing the production tax at all will hurt smaller energy companies a lot more than it will hurt any of the large or well funded companies that these guys represent. Smaller energy companies have much thinner margins for success and any increase in costs will have a negative effect on them.


So, are you saying that the big oilmen in OK (or at least some of them) are in favor of raising the tax, hoping to weed out some of the small riff raff competition?

----------


## onthestrip

> No, I'm generally talking about the people here.  Those folks have enough understanding to make a reasoned argument for or against, you don't.


I have a little bit of understanding, plus I read lots of stuff about it. But even better, I understand BS and bluffing, which is what Lawler, Hamm, and Nichols are spewing. They arent leaving the state over what Kaiser calls a rounding error.

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## onthestrip

> Regardless of what any of them say, increasing the production tax at all will hurt smaller energy companies a lot more than it will hurt any of the large or well funded companies that these guys represent. Smaller energy companies have much thinner margins for success and any increase in costs will have a negative effect on them. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are that many small companies drilling horizontally? I believe if you are drilling horizontal wells you arent considered all that small of an operation. 

If you are worried about the smaller guys then maybe we lower the vertical well tax from its current 7%, which is made up of more smaller operations due to way cheaper drilling costs. But horizontal drilling tax can definitely go higher than 2% without hurting the industry or state.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> So, are you saying that the big oilmen in OK (or at least some of them) are in favor of raising the tax, hoping to weed out some of the small riff raff competition?


I have no idea what their angle is, I just know it will have a larger impact on smaller companies than it would on them. 

Also, as far as I know George Kaiser (or at least Kaiser-Francis) isn't even actively drilling that much anymore; Stacy Schusterman sold her ownership in Samson to KKR and her new company doesn't even operate in Oklahoma (for now); and nearly all of Tapstone's (Tom Ward) acreage is in Kansas. 

By contrast, one of Continental's two key plays is located in Oklahoma (and while they say the SCOOP shows potential to be the next bakken, with similar drilling costs, it hasn't proven that yet), and CHK is a very active driller in ok as is Devon. 

Who do you think has more skin in the game, 3 people that aren't that active in OK anymore or 3 that are very active here? I can't tell you why those three support an increase in the production tax, but I have a feeling that their lack of activity here has made them less opposed to it. 


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## PhiAlpha

> Are that many small companies drilling horizontally? I believe if you are drilling horizontal wells you arent considered all that small of an operation. 
> 
> If you are worried about the smaller guys then maybe we lower the vertical well tax from its current 7%, which is made up of more smaller operations due to way cheaper drilling costs. But horizontal drilling tax can definitely go higher than 2% without hurting the industry or state.


That is incorrect, companies of all sizes are drilling horizontally now on at least some or the majority of their wells. 


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## soonerguru

Good for Tom Ward. These are our state's resources, so we shouldn't just give them away. The tax credit for horizontal drilling is an anachronism that only exists because, at the time, horizontal drilling was expensive and exotic. Now it is commonplace. These companies need to pay their fair share to do business here.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Good for Tom Ward. These are our state's resources, so we shouldn't just give them away. The tax credit for horizontal drilling is an anachronism that only exists because, at the time, horizontal drilling was expensive and exotic. Now it is commonplace. These companies need to pay their fair share to do business here.


It may be more commonplace, but it still is very expensive.

----------


## onthestrip

> I have no idea what their angle is, I just know it will have a larger impact on smaller companies than it would on them. 
> 
> Also,* as far as I know George Kaiser (or at least Kaiser-Francis) isn't even actively drilling that much anymore;* Stacy Schusterman sold her ownership in Samson to KKR and her new company doesn't even operate in Oklahoma (for now); and nearly all of Tapstone's (Tom Ward) acreage is in Kansas. 
> 
> By contrast, one of Continental's two key plays is located in Oklahoma (and while they say the SCOOP shows potential to be the next bakken, with similar drilling costs, it hasn't proven that yet), and CHK is a very active driller in ok as is Devon. 
> 
> Who do you think has more skin in the game, 3 people that aren't that active in OK anymore or 3 that are very active here? I can't tell you why those three support an increase in the production tax, but I have a feeling that their lack of activity here has made them less opposed to it. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Kaiser has said that besides Hamm, there probably isnt anyone that has more to lose from the tax break going away. So Im assuming that means he does quite a bit of horizontal drilling in Oklahoma.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Kaiser has said that besides Hamm, there probably isnt anyone that has more to lose from the tax break going away. So Im assuming that means he does quite a bit of horizontal drilling in Oklahoma.


I assume that's from non-op interest then because drilling permit records over the last few years don't support that statement. 


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## onthestrip

More talk about the drilling tax. More comments that contradict the claims that Oklahoma's rock isnt the best and drilling is too expensive here.



> Schusterman, chairwoman and CEO of Tulsa-based Samson Energy Co., questions those statements. In an email to The Journal Record, Schusterman pointed to statements made by Continental Resources’ then-Senior Vice President Richard E. Muncrief, now head of WPX Energy. During a 2013 conference call, Muncrief was asked about Oklahoma rock, specifically, the economics of the South Central Oklahoma Oil Province, or SCOOP, its oil play in southern Oklahoma and how it compared to North Dakota’s Bakken oil field.
> “From an economics standpoint, we think that the SCOOP economics are – range from the high 30s up to 80-percent type rate of return,” Muncrief said. “And you compare that with the Bakken. In a lot of cases, it compares quite favorably to the Bakken’s. And so we’re just real excited about what we’re seeing down there.”
> Schusterman said that recent investor updates from Continental, Chesapeake, Devon and Newfield clearly show that drilling costs in Oklahoma are modest and that rates of return are equal to or greater than in North Dakota.


Fourth Reading: Oil industry isn?t going away | The Journal Record

----------


## PWitty

The SCOOP is in its infancy, and is dominated from an acreage standpoint by a few select companies. I don't know a lot about it myself but I would also say that just because a company drills a few successful wells in a certain area doesn't mean that the entire formation is going to yield those kind of results. In these tight oil and gas plays the rock can vary significantly from area to area. 

I'm not saying that is a reason to be against a tax increase, it just seems like you're putting all your eggs in one basket based on a few quotes from Continental. CHK said the same thing about the Utica being a monster oil formation and it turned out to yield more wet/dry natural gas than oil.

----------


## adaniel

I remember the same things said about the Mississippi Lime back in 2009. Not that its a bad area but many of our clients at my previous employer were not pleased with the production level on their wells and had to deal with a massive amount of saltwater. Quite a few were actively looking to get rid of their acreage by the time I left. So anything can pop up over time as a field is developed more.

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## PhiAlpha

> More talk about the drilling tax. More comments that contradict the claims that Oklahoma's rock isnt the best and drilling is too expensive here.
> 
> Fourth Reading: Oil industry isn?t going away | The Journal Record


What they said. Basing the reasoning for a tax increase on the potential of one play as portrayed in a presentation that's purpose is to pump up the play to investors isn't a great strategy. Continental hasn't drilled that many wells in it yet and results haven't been as good as Continental's throughout the entire play. Like adaniel said, Sandridge, CHK, shell and others said the Mississippi play in Kansas was going to be an excellent play and now they have either sold out or are letting large portions of their acreage expire.  


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## zookeeper

> What they said. Basing the reasoning for a tax increase on the potential of one play as portrayed in a presentation that's purpose is to pump up the play to investors isn't a great strategy. Continental hasn't drilled that many wells in it yet and results haven't been as good as Continental's throughout the entire play. Like adaniel said, Sandridge, CHK, shell and others said the Mississippi play in Kansas was going to be an excellent play and now they have either sold out or are letting large portions of their acreage expire.  
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The bottom line is that none of them will leave profits in the ground. I support 9%. After a week, they won't bat an eyelash.

----------


## gopokes88

It's all just posturing on both sides. It'll wind up around 3.25-4%.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> The bottom line is that none of them will leave profits in the ground. I support 9%. After a week, they won't bat an eyelash.


Again depending on the play, raising it that high could make it less profitable thus leaving it in the ground longer or not drilling it at all. 9% is too high...that would definitely hurt the more marginal plays in the state, the trickle down effect would hurt the mineral owners in those areas. It definitely should not go above 7% and will probably end up between 3-5%


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## PhiAlpha

> More talk about the drilling tax. More comments that contradict the claims that Oklahoma's rock isnt the best and drilling is too expensive here.
> 
> Fourth Reading: Oil industry isn?t going away | The Journal Record


To further what I said in my previous post. Why does it make sense to use economics from the best play in the state as a case for raising the tax? Sure, assuming continental's predictions for SCOOP are correct, jacking it up may not hurt companies developing that play. But what about the plays that, even right now, are marginal at best and/or extremely inconsistent?  The miss, granite wash, and various western Oklahoma plays can be extremely inconsistent and extremely expensive to drill regardless of those results. A horizontal well in one section could produce 400 BOEPD while one a mile away produces 20 BOEPD.  A 6% tax increase may not make much of a difference on a 400 BOEPD well but on a well producing less than 100 BOEPD, it could definitely be the difference between profitable and unprofitable. Back to the large company/small company discussion, that may not be as big of hit for a large company that drills 30 wells a year in the area as their production results would likely average out over a larger area or drilling program. For a smaller company that can only drill 3 wells a year in that play, an increased tax would definitely increase their risk. 

And I can't state enough that until PROVEN otherwise, "our rock" is not as good or consistent over a large area as North Dakota's and definitely is not as liquids-rich as marquee areas in Texas such as the Eagleford Shale and the Permian Basin. All you have to do is look at production numbers, decline curves, and rig counts to see that. Maybe we'll find in the future that the SCOOP is indeed the next Bakken but right now that hasn't happened yet and using the success of one part of the state as an excuse to tax the s*#% out of everyone is not the way to go. 

Having said that, I'm not necessarily against raising or modifying the tax but the attitude of "all the oil companies are robbing everyone and attempting to screw over the entire state" that some of you have taken up is frac'ing ridiculous. The issue is not anywhere near as simple as some of you would like it to be. A careful, well thought out discussion needs to take place and that seems to be what's happening. I'm glad their are groups within the industry fighting on both sides of the issue, it should continue to be a solid, fact based discussion. 


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## Plutonic Panda

> •A plan for permanently setting Oklahoma’s gross production tax rate at 2 percent for the first 48 months on all new oil and gas wells, followed by a 7 percent tax rate for the remainder of each well’s production.


Several key issues are unresolved as Oklahoma Legislature speeds to adjournment | News OK

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## bradh

Man PhiAlpha just owns this discussion with thought out and knowledgable viewpoints, in a civil manner.

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## onthestrip

Aye yi yi.... 

A bill is going to be considered by House and Senate panels that would have the drilling tax at 2% for first 3 years, 7% after that. So not only do we prove that corporations are essentially dictating their own tax policies, we didnt even try to negotiate. The state basically just took the oil and gas industry's first proposal. First rule of negotiations is to never take the first offer, right? But you cant expect this current group of lawmakers to look out for anyone other than who might write their next campaign check. No foresight or backbone has been shown by our state leaders. Our pitiful education and health status gets to continue on.

Okla. lawmakers to unveil new drilling incentive - San Antonio Express-News

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## HangryHippo

> Aye yi yi.... 
> 
> A bill is going to be considered by House and Senate panels that would have the drilling tax at 2% for first 3 years, 7% after that. So not only do we prove that corporations are essentially dictating their own tax policies, we didnt even try to negotiate. The state basically just took the oil and gas industry's first proposal. First rule of negotiations is to never take the first offer, right? But you cant expect this current group of lawmakers to look out for anyone other than who might write their next campaign check. No foresight or backbone has been shown by our state leaders. Our pitiful education and health status gets to continue on.
> 
> Okla. lawmakers to unveil new drilling incentive - San Antonio Express-News


Is there not a way to split the way the companies are taxed so that the larger companies can pay more since their results even out and the smaller companies aren't left with a bunch of unprofitable wells?  I think three years is too long to have the rate at 2%.

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## Bellaboo

> Is there not a way to split the way the companies are taxed so that the larger companies can pay more since their results even out and the smaller companies aren't left with a bunch of unprofitable wells?  I think three years is too long to have the rate at 2%.


It currently, until 2015, is 4 years at 1%. It's probably not set in stone just yet.

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## onthestrip

More: Oil Firms? Reports Strike Different Tone than CEOs? Warnings on Production Tax | Oklahoma Watch

From Tom Ward



> “I have overseen the budgeting process of drilling thousands of wells at two different companies in Oklahoma. In the process of drilling a well, there were many factors that are considered. However, the implication of a state’s gross production tax has never had a material impact on whether to drill or not drill,” Ward said in an email.
> 
> “The intent of the Oklahoma gross production tax holiday has outlived its purpose of subsidizing the experiment of horizontal drilling … The tax holiday had an expiration for good reason and was never intended to create a long-term entitlement for the industry.”

----------


## HangryHippo

> More: Oil Firms? Reports Strike Different Tone than CEOs? Warnings on Production Tax | Oklahoma Watch
> 
> From Tom Ward


That's interesting.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Update on the tax proposal




> A bill that would set the gross production tax rate on oil and natural gas wells at 2 percent for the first 36 months of production is expected to reach the state House of Representatives late Wednesday or early Thursday.
> 
> House Bill 2562 would affect the early production of vertical and horizontal wells throughout the state. After three years, the wells’ remaining production would be taxed at 7 percent.
> 
> The bill on Tuesday was approved by conference committees in both chambers. The Senate committee approved the bill after 7 p.m. Tuesday.
> 
> The full House must wait 24 hours before taking up the measure.
> 
> The bill would eliminate drilling tax credits, including those for the state’s deepest wells and for three-dimensional seismic activity.
> ...

----------


## onthestrip

Interesting stuff in todays Journal Record. As far as Devon, CHK, Continental moving drilling to other states, Stacy Schusterman is calling BS.



> On Monday, Schusterman offered to take over the oil plays in Oklahoma if Devon Energy, Chesapeake Energy and Continental Resources decided higher taxes made it too expensive to drill, she wrote in a letter to the Oklahoma Senate president pro tempore and the speaker of the House.


Full article:
Industry divided on drilling taxes | The Journal Record

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## moose

It passed the House.  Senate votes this afternoon.

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## onthestrip

Headed to governors desk. Hooray for letting industry write their own tax policy!

Maybe I'll I buy some CLR and Devon stock to offset my disappointment in the state.

----------


## Bellaboo

> Headed to governors desk. Hooray for letting industry write their own tax policy!
> 
> Maybe I'll I buy some CLR and Devon stock to offset my disappointment in the state.


A lot of folks are dancing in the streets.

----------


## TheTravellers

> A lot of folks are dancing in the streets.


1%ers...

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## ylouder

If you work in the industry or not, there is no way around it but we are being screwed as tax payers. I have no doubt this will pass and they will continue to pay a lower tax rate than you and I do. There is no exaggeration that we have some of the worst roads, underfunded schools, and infrastructure in the entire nation. 

Not only do we pay a higher tax rate than oil and gas drillers, there have been numerous spin off cost - 
-we have to pay higher water rates because municipalities are raising rates because of increased demands
-the added wear and tear on infrastructure from truck traffic to and from well sites
-added homeowners insurance year cost and deductibles for earthquake insurance
-depletion of ground and surface water
-possible contamination clean up cost down the road

Good old fashioned privatized profits and socialized expenses. The only people I could possibly imagine that are content with this new change are short term employees who have no desire to stay in the state long term, they are here for the good times and will move on to the next site well before the chickens come home to roost. For those who want to say, ' you just want to bleed them dry', what, by having them pay atleast a little _closer_ to the same rates that you and I pay, or somewhat _closer_ to what they pay in other states.

----------


## Bellaboo

> 1%ers...


Nope, there are a ton of folks that are mineral owners who are not 1%ers.

And the more money those mineral owners receive is more state income tax paid.

----------


## ylouder

> Nope, there are a ton of folks that are mineral owners who are not 1%ers.


I've mentioned it on here before but my family has been in the state since 1895, and i actually have fractional well ownership down in SE Oklahoma. How is any of this benefiting us, they are going to drill whether the rate is 2 percent or 5 percent (imho that seems reasonable) and as long as nothing crazy was proposed. 

This isnt like manufacturing cars that can be built anywhere. You cant drill oklahoma gas and oil in texas or north dakota, its been here for millions of years and isnt going anywhere unless someone wants to get it out. 

What we are doing is purposely missing out as a state to do something responsible and long lasting with the biggest limited asset we have.

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## Plutonic Panda

Oklahoma Governor Urged To Reject Oil Production Tax - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

----------


## Bunty

Long term it becomes irrelevant to worry about where to set the tax on oil companies, if the Republican goal to eventually totally eliminate the state income tax means corporate income tax as well.

----------


## Bunty

> Oklahoma Governor Urged To Reject Oil Production Tax - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |


So raising the tax on horizontal drilling is unconstitutional, due to not enough legislators from both sides voting in favor.  Taxpayers will be left with the legal bills again, if it's challenged and fought.  The governor doesn't seem to view it as an issue.  Or like the Bible, pick and chose what you want to follow in the Oklahoma Constitution.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

She signed it




> *Fallin Signs Bill To Adjust Oklahoma Oil Production Tax
> 
> Posted: May 28, 2014 2:40 PM CDT
> Updated: May 28, 2014 2:42 PM CDT
> By Associated Press*
> 
> OKLAHOMA CITY - Gov. Mary Fallin has signed a bill that increases an incentive for a 1 percent tax rate on horizontally drilled oil and gas wells to 2 percent and extends it to all wells drilled in Oklahoma.
> Fallin signed the bill Wednesday after negotiations between the energy industry and the Republican-controlled Legislature.
> 
> - Fallin Signs Bill To Adjust Oklahoma Oil Production Tax - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin signs oil production tax bill Wednesday | News OK

----------


## onthestrip

Couple interesting quotes about this production tax deal that the oil industry got to write and also how the state only was looking out for the interests of corporations rather than all the citizens of the state. 

I think Oklahoma's new slogan should be: Oklahoma, we are so business friendly that you can actually write your laws!




> During the final days of the legislative session, when the Oklahoma House and Senate were being swarmed by dozens of oil and gas lobbyists, I spotted a former legislator I had not seen for several years. I asked what brought him to the Capitol.
> As the owner of a business that services oil and gas rigs, Ive been asked up here to tell legislators what would happen if we dont extend the tax break on oil and gas production and all the rigs leave the state, he said.
> But they wont leave the state, I said.
> I know, he responded with an embarrassed little smile. Then he went back to work.





> The situation was best summed up by former Oklahoma City Mayor Kirk Humphreys. Referring to the CEO of Devon Energy, one of the companies pushing hardest to extend the tax break, he said, Do I blame Larry Nichols for doing what hes doing? No, its his job to negotiate as good a deal as he can. But its also Mary Fallins job and the Legislatures job to represent our interests and negotiate as good a deal as we can.


Prosperity Policy: ?They caved? | The Journal Record

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Oil rises above $103 as supply drops in Cushing | News OK

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Trains are transporting more oil as production booms | News OK

----------


## PhiAlpha

FWIW I've heard that HighMount Exploration & Production, who's parent company has been considering a sale, has been sold or is nearing a sale. Apparently several of their employees were laid off last over the last few weeks. Not sure how many people they have in OKC but I think it is a few hundred.

----------


## BillyOcean

^^^^^

go on....who is purchaser?  Aubrey?  Tom?  DVN?

----------


## Pete

NEW YORK, May 23, 2014 /PRNewswire/ -- Loews Corporation (NYSE: L) announced today that its oil and gas exploration and production subsidiary, HighMount Exploration & Production, LLC, is pursuing strategic alternatives, including a potential sale of the business. At March 31, 2014, HighMount's total assets, primarily comprised of natural gas and oil reserves, had a carrying value of approximately $1.1 billion (excluding deferred tax assets). HighMount had long-term debt and other liabilities totaling approximately $592 million at March 31, 2014. Loews may incur a loss as a result of this process.

ABOUT HIGHMOUNT EXPLORATION & PRODUCTION, LLC
HighMount Exploration & Production, LLC is engaged, through subsidiaries, in the exploration, production and marketing of natural gas and oil (including condensate and NGLs), primarily located in the Sonora Field within the Permian Basin in West Texas. HighMount holds leasehold or drilling rights in approximately 660,000 net acres, of which approximately 480,000 acres are developed and the balance is held for future exploration and development drilling opportunities. As of March 31, 2014, HighMount owned 730 Bcfe of net proved reserves, of which 93% were classified as proved developed reserves.

ABOUT LOEWS CORPORATION
Loews Corporation is a diversified company with three publicly-traded subsidiaries: CNA Financial Corporation (NYSE: CNA), Diamond Offshore Drilling, Inc. (NYSE: DO) and Boardwalk Pipeline Partners, LP (NYSE: BWP); and two wholly owned subsidiaries: HighMount Exploration & Production LLC and Loews Hotels & Resorts. For more information please visit Loews Corporation | Value Investment.

FORWARD LOOKING STATEMENTS
This press release contains forward-looking statements relating to expectations, plans or prospects for Loews Corporation and its subsidiary, HighMount Exploration & Production, LLC and its subsidiaries, including with respect to whether any potential sale of or other strategic transaction by or related to HighMount will be consummated and, if so, the timing and terms of any such transaction, including any possible sale price, and the financial impact of any such transaction on Loews Corporation, including the amount of any potential loss incurred. These statements are based upon the current plans, expectations and beliefs of management of Loews Corporation and are subject to many risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from the current plans or expectations described in the forward-looking statements. Many of these risks and uncertainties are beyond the control of Loews Corporation.

SOURCE Loews Corporation

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Oil keeps spurring state economic growth  Local News  The Edmond Sun

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Very good news! Oklahoma poised to become top oil producer, Continental Resources CEO Harold Hamm says | News OK

----------


## ou48A

> Very good news! Oklahoma poised to become top oil producer, Continental Resources CEO Harold Hamm says | News OK


Yep they are doing it the right way…… tax collections on oil and natural gas production in May rose almost 28 percent over last year.

Becoming the #3 oil producing state is a huge deal for our states economy and by thousands of times more over the retail developments that so many get so excited about.

----------


## onthestrip

Never realized until ready that article that Texas produces far away the most oil in the US, and over 9x the amount oklahoma produces. They also tax them 4.5x more than in oklahoma. Yet they still produce so much. It's almost as if Hamm, Lawler and Nichols were lying about leaving the state due to a higher tax...

It's also interesting that it's always the no income tax argument for why Texas does so well. People forget that they are the Saudi Arabia of the US.

----------


## ou48A

> Never realized until ready that article that Texas produces far away the most oil in the US, and over 9x the amount oklahoma produces. They also tax them 4.5x more than in oklahoma. Yet they still produce so much. It's almost as if Hamm, Lawler and Nichols were lying about leaving the state due to a higher tax...
> 
> It's also interesting that it's always the no income tax argument for why Texas does so well. People forget that they are the Saudi Arabia of the US.


You have also got to understand the geology in much of Texas and other factors such as no income tax allows for much lower drilling cost. Investors in anything seek the highest and quickest rates of return.
 But to not understand how much more crude Texas produces is an indication of your very poor understanding of the industry, because it’s such a basic fact that even a very low informed person would know.

There are limits to the number of drilling rigs and skilled personnel to go around. It’s a very, very competitive market for highly trained/ skilled workers.
 Much like teachers, Oklahoma can’t afford to lose these very highly paid workers to other states. 

This crude & NG will  be worth hundreds of billions just in our state and do a lot of good things for people......And a lot of  good for our state institution’s.

----------


## onthestrip

> You have also got to understand the geology in much of Texas and other factors such as no income tax allows for much lower drilling cost. Investors in anything seek the highest and quickest rates of return.
> *But to not understand how much more crude Texas produces is an indication of your very poor understanding of the industry, because it’s such a basic fact that even a very low informed person would know.*
> 
> There are limits to the number of drilling rigs and skilled personnel to go around. It’s a very, very competitive market for highly trained/ skilled workers.
>  Much like teachers, Oklahoma can’t afford to lose these very highly paid workers to other states. 
> 
> This crude & NG will  be worth hundreds of billions just in our state and do a lot of good things for people......And a lot of  good for our state institution’s.


You really are something else... Just because I didn't know the exact amount of barrels Texas and Oklahoma produced in February doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Stick to making factual points and not taking cheap shots at people you don't know, people might actually take you more seriously and despise you less.

----------


## ou48A

FYI….

9 Reasons Why Oil Prices May Be Headed For A Bust - Forbes

This is long,,,, but as experience teaches us every boom has a bust.
Are we headed toward a bust who knows? But it’s why IMHO wise investors, corporations and governments don’t become overly exposed to a crude oil market down turn. This would include individuals owning properties who are located in crude oil dependent areas such as OKC.

----------


## ou48A

> You really are something else... Just because I didn't know the exact amount of barrels Texas and Oklahoma produced in February doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Stick to making factual points and not taking cheap shots at people you don't know, people might actually take you more seriously and despise you less.


I would give your opinion due consideration if it was backed by intrinsic information, real world practical experience and understanding. Your line of thinking would have seen the state receiving significantly less revenue and lead to higher levels of unemployment in our state and delayed economic improvements.  
I really, really don’t care what someone as under educated as you are on the energy topic thinks about me …..and I’m certainly no high end expert, but I do know a little.

----------


## onthestrip

> *I would give your opinion due consideration if it was backed by intrinsic information, real world practical experience and understanding. Your line of thinking would have seen the state receiving significantly less revenue and lead to higher levels of unemployment in our state and delayed economic improvements.* 
> I really, really don’t care what someone as under educated as you are on the energy topic thinks about me …..and I’m certainly no high end expert, but I do know a little.


You ignore my opinion because a lack of information yet then give your own opinion that lacks any "intrinsic" information. The fact that we would lose jobs and receive significantly less revenue due to the tax going to, say, 4% instead of 2% is just bogus on the face of it, especially when 4% would still be well below all other large producing states. I can also cite the opinions of those that do know more, such as George Kaiser, Tom Ward and Stacy Schusterman. They have all that experience and understanding you talk of and they claim it wouldnt have any effect.

If raising the rate would be such a job killer and bring in less revenue, you would think ND who has 5.5x higher tax rate than us and Texas who is 4.5x higher, that they would be losing jobs and revenue really quickly. Obviously that isnt the case.

----------


## gopokes88

> You ignore my opinion because a lack of information yet then give your own opinion that lacks any "intrinsic" information. The fact that we would lose jobs and receive significantly less revenue due to the tax going to, say, 4% instead of 2% is just bogus on the face of it, especially when 4% would still be well below all other large producing states. I can also cite the opinions of those that do know more, such as George Kaiser, Tom Ward and Stacy Schusterman. They have all that experience and understanding you talk of and they claim it wouldnt have any effect.
> 
> If raising the rate would be such a job killer and bring in less revenue, you would think ND who has 5.5x higher tax rate than us and Texas who is 4.5x higher, that they would be losing jobs and revenue really quickly. Obviously that isnt the case.


Your argument is assumes linear oil production in every state. That's the flaw in it. You are drawing a straight line in a 3D world. It's nothing personal, you just aren't seeing every variable. 

It's like saying California has higher taxes and more people therefore if Oklahoma has higher taxes more people will come here. You leave out major variables like the fact California has beaches, mountains, big economic opportunity, great weather, which in turn allows them to have higher taxes because people will tolerate it. 

Comparing ND's oil to Oklahoma's is ludicrous, but your entire argument hinges on what's in OK's dirt is = ND's dirt so you refuse to acknowledge it.

Last the fact is a core Republican belief is people and corporations are better spenders/savers of money then the government. The economy works better when those two have money and the government. That's just what they believe. This is VERY republican state, they aren't going push a big tax increase on oil anymore then a polar bear is going to live in the Sahara.

----------


## onthestrip

> Your argument is assumes linear oil production in every state. That's the flaw in it. You are drawing a straight line in a 3D world. It's nothing personal, you just aren't seeing every variable. 
> 
> It's like saying California has higher taxes and more people therefore if Oklahoma has higher taxes more people will come here. You leave out major variables like the fact California has beaches, mountains, big economic opportunity, great weather, which in turn allows them to have higher taxes because people will tolerate it. 
> 
> Comparing ND's oil to Oklahoma's is ludicrous, but your entire argument hinges on what's in OK's dirt is = ND's dirt so you refuse to acknowledge it.
> 
> Last the fact is a core Republican belief is people and corporations are better spenders/savers of money then the government. The economy works better when those two have money and the government. That's just what they believe. This is VERY republican state, they aren't going push a big tax increase on oil anymore then a polar bear is going to live in the Sahara.


First, I realize that there are variables in drilling in different states. However, that loses a bit of importance when the same people that are telling the governor that "we dont have good rock" turn around and tell outside investors that certain new plays are stong and look as good or even favorable to ND plays.

Also, its hard to call this a tax increase. It was always 7% until they reduced it temporarily for horizontal drilling. It was set to go back to 7%. So they decided to permanently set it at 2%. How is that a big tax increase? Fact is it isnt, a huge tax decrease only became slightly less of a tax decrease. 

I hope those drillers can spend some of their savings on public education.

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## ou48A

> I hope those drillers can spend some of their savings on public education.


This seems to be the point that you and others fail to grasp
Because this tax incentive came at the right time our state now has significantly more money to operate with than it otherwise would have….. 

Now rather or not it finds its way to education is another matter? That’s on our elected leaders and who we vote for!

I have long advocated for an OIL & NG endowment fund for higher education just like Texas and several other states have done. 
Oil & NG would be taxed base on a sliding scale and placed into a state controlled endowment fund to provide money mostly to OU and OSU but others at smaller rates as well.

----------


## zookeeper

> *This seems to be the point that you and others fail to grasp
> Because this tax incentive came at the right time our state now has significantly more money to operate with than it otherwise would have.. 
> *
> Now rather or not it finds its way to education is another matter? Thats on our elected leaders and who we vote for!
> 
> I have long advocated for an OIL & NG endowment fund for higher education just like Texas and several other states have done. 
> Oil & NG would be taxed base on a sliding scale and placed into a state controlled endowment fund to provide money mostly to OU and OSU but others at smaller rates as well.


That fails to explain why the "temporary incentive" isn't dropped and things return to normal - to 7%. Think they'll leave profits in the ground? This state is going to have to put a "Owned and Operated By Chesapeake, Devon, Continental, Tapstone, AEP..." sign at the state border crossings if this nonsense doesn't stop.

----------


## ou48A

> That fails to explain why the "temporary incentive" isn't dropped and things return to normal - to 7%. Think they'll leave profits in the ground? This state is going to have to put a "Owned and Operated By Chesapeake, Devon, Continental, Tapstone, AEP..." sign at the state border crossings if this nonsense doesn't stop.


Going to 7 % would effectively end most exploration and about the only drilling being done would be to hold acreage positions…. There are just too many other better places to drill out side our state if we have a 7% severance tax...  you fail to understand the basic economics on how a 7% tax would lower tax revenue for our state.

----------


## zookeeper

> *Going to 7 % would effectively end most exploration and about the only drilling being done would be to hold acreage positions*…. There are just too many other better places to drill out side our state if we have a 7% severance tax...  you fail to understand the basic economics on how a 7% tax would lower tax revenue for our state.


First of all, it wouldn't be a tax increase, it would only allow the *temporary* incentives to expire. Let's at least be honest in our language.

As far as your saying 7% would "effectively end most exploration..." is a puzzle. If I wanted my company to grow oranges, I wouldn't move to Idaho because they have lower taxes on growing oranges - especially since, well you know, there's no oranges to grow in Idaho. I'd go where the oranges are. Are you saying there are better places to go - simply based on tax breaks - if one wants to plunder-for-profit our resources for oil and gas? Looking at the Gross Production Taxes in other states, _where there is oil and gas_, 7% doesn't look too bad at all. Where would everybody go to explore, and leave this state with its resources, to save on taxes to maximize profits? Could you be specific? Are they that greedy even if there is a state with tax rates a couple of percentage points lower? The oil and gas is here. The state should get what it got for years -- 7%. It wouldn't send all the drillers and frackers to Oregon - there's no oil and gas there. It's here. They should pay the same freight they did before the fracking boom.

----------


## soonerguru

Ou48a,

Tom Ward and George Kaiser disagree with you.

----------


## Bunty

> First of all, it wouldn't be a tax increase, it would only allow the *temporary* incentives to expire. Let's at least be honest in our language.
> 
> As far as your saying 7% would "effectively end most exploration..." is a puzzle. If I wanted my company to grow oranges, I wouldn't move to Idaho because they have lower taxes on growing oranges - especially since, well you know, there's no oranges to grow in Idaho. I'd go where the oranges are. Are you saying there are better places to go - simply based on tax breaks - if one wants to plunder-for-profit our resources for oil and gas? Looking at the Gross Production Taxes in other states, _where there is oil and gas_, 7% doesn't look too bad at all. Where would everybody go to explore, and leave this state with its resources, to save on taxes to maximize profits? Could you be specific? Are they that greedy even if there is a state with tax rates a couple of percentage points lower? The oil and gas is here. The state should get what it got for years -- 7%. It wouldn't send all the drillers and frackers to Oregon - there's no oil and gas there. It's here. They should pay the same freight they did before the fracking boom.


But as the Devon ceo would say, Oklahoma isn't as attractive state for oil drilling because wells don't produce near the higher rates of wells found in ND and TX.

----------


## Bunty

> Very good news! Oklahoma poised to become top oil producer, Continental Resources CEO Harold Hamm says | News OK


Stillwater and Enid are examples of just two of the towns doing well from the boom in oil.

----------


## Bellaboo

> Ou48a,
> 
> Tom Ward and George Kaiser disagree with you.


FWIW, Tom Ward doesn't drill in Oklahoma....

----------


## ou48A

> Ou48a,
> 
> Tom Ward and George Kaiser disagree with you.


It’s just not that simple……What you’re not recognizing is that people such as Ward and Kiser along with others have their own agenda’s… Slowing down a drilling boom and lowering leasing prices could benefit some of these people…. Since there are so many other more lucrative drilling locations in the USA right now, some may not have the available capital to drill in Oklahoma right now….. but they might in a few years…. People in this position and there are plenty of people and companies in that boat right now would be for anything that would slow down our states drilling boom.... for now.

The people with the capitol to drill in our state want to maximize their own opportunities and since it’s such a thin margin of difference taxing at 7% would send many of our rigs and their employees to other state who have better geology….. I don’t think we can afford to see that happen.

----------


## onthestrip

> It’s just not that simple……*What you’re not recognizing is that people such as Ward and Kiser along with others have their own agenda’s*… Slowing down a drilling boom and lowering leasing prices could benefit some of these people…. Since there are so many other more lucrative drilling locations in the USA right now, some may not have the available capital to drill in Oklahoma right now….. but they might in a few years…. People in this position and there are plenty of people and companies in that boat right now would be for anything that would slow down our states drilling boom.... for now.
> 
> The people with the capitol to drill in our state want to maximize their own opportunities and since it’s such a thin margin of difference taxing at 7% would send many of our rigs and their employees to other state who have better geology….. I don’t think we can afford to see that happen.


And Hamm, Lawler, and Nichols dont have an agenda either? Its easy to see Kaisers agenda, he would like to invest in our state, education and health mainly. How crazy of him, huh?

----------


## Bellaboo

> And Hamm, Lawler, and Nichols dont have an agenda either? *Its easy to see Kaisers agenda, he would like to invest in our state, education and health mainly. How crazy of him, huh*?


He's got plenty of money, not sure what's stopping him ?

----------


## gopokes88

> First, I realize that there are variables in drilling in different states. However, that loses a bit of importance when the same people that are telling the governor that "we dont have good rock" turn around and tell outside investors that certain new plays are stong and look as good or even favorable to ND plays.
> 
> Also, its hard to call this a tax increase. It was always 7% until they reduced it temporarily for horizontal drilling. It was set to go back to 7%. So they decided to permanently set it at 2%. How is that a big tax increase? Fact is it isnt, a huge tax decrease only became slightly less of a tax decrease. 
> 
> I hope those drillers can spend some of their savings on public education.


They have the _potential_ to be bigger then ND not the performance. That's a massive difference. 

I have the *potential* in my lifetime to make a billion dollars.
Harold Hamm has had the performance in his lifetime to make a billion. 

By your logic I should already be in Hamm's tax bracket.

They were paying 1% now they are going to pay 2%. Is that not a tax increase?

There is no link between public education spending and performance. Saying we should spend more on schools is an intellectually dishonest position that sounds great, but is nothing more then doubling down on an already broken theory. It's things politicians say to get votes and stay in power without having to actually address a problem. Just throw more money that isn't yours at something and hope it works. 
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.or.../pdf/pa746.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RybNI0KB1bg

Oh don't miss the nugget in that report that say private schools are able to educate a student at 66% the cost of public. Go figure. So shocked.

----------


## ou48A

> *He's got plenty of money*, not sure what's stopping him ?


People might think that, but the reality is that nobody has enough money for everything.

The oil industry is an extremely capital intensive industry where smart people don’t over expose themselves to the boom and bust cycles…And  like anywhere else these people and their money seek the highest rates of return on their money and at acceptable risk.

----------


## onthestrip

> *They have the potential to be bigger then ND not the performance. That's a massive difference. 
> 
> I have the potential in my lifetime to make a billion dollars.
> Harold Hamm has had the performance in his lifetime to make a billion.* 
> 
> By your logic I should already be in Hamm's tax bracket.
> 
> They were paying 1% now they are going to pay 2%. Is that not a tax increase?
> 
> ...


The potential? Or is it more of a certainty? Just read that CLR plans to spend hundreds of millions on their SCOOP play. Doubt they would do that if they didnt know with pretty good certainty that it was going to be fruitful. Here is a bit more info about it, taken from an OKPolicy.org article. These CEOs clearly show they cant be trusted with what they were saying to the state.



> This argument is a red herring, because these same energy companies say something very different when talking to their investors. They calculate a rate of return for wells in different areas, which incorporates all issues of drilling cost and profitability. Continental, for example, shows expected rates of return of 74 percent in the SCOOP oil play in Southern Oklahoma, compared  to 47 percent for the Bakken wells in North Dakota. Newfield shows Oklahoma wells generating rates of return over 50 percent compared to 30  50 percent for plays in North Dakota (Bakken and Three Forks).


Regarding schools, there are many variables that go into performance. But you can rest assure that if you are at the bottom of funding, you will be at or near the bottom in performance. Which is what Oklahoma is on both counts. Large class sizes and making college more expensive (meaning fewer college grads) are two giant negatives that come from under-funding schools.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> The potential? Or is it more of a certainty? Just read that CLR plans to spend hundreds of millions on their SCOOP play. Doubt they would do that if they didnt know with pretty good certainty that it was going to be fruitful. Here is a bit more info about it, taken from an OKPolicy.org article. These CEOs clearly show they cant be trusted with what they were saying to the state.
> 
> 
> Regarding schools, there are many variables that go into performance. But you can rest assure that if you are at the bottom of funding, you will be at or near the bottom in performance. Which is what Oklahoma is on both counts. Large class sizes and making college more expensive (meaning fewer college grads) are two giant negatives that come from under-funding schools.


A well's performance is never a certainty until it's producing and a play's performance is not a certainty until many successful wells have been drilled...no matter what anyone tells the papers or investors about it. I've been a part of several wells that looked great on paper in several plays that looked great but didn't preform any where near as well as our analysis predicted they would. Look no further than the Mississippi Lime play in Kansas, look back to how much everyone, especially Sandridge, CHK, Apache, and Shell, was hyping it back in 2010-2011 with a few good results and some geology to back it up...didn't work out anywhere near as well as it was supposed to. Companies spent millions leasing up the majority of southern and western Kansas and allocated many more millions to drill it and build infrastructure there. Now there are very few companies there actively pursuing the Miss in Kansas and Sandridge, the biggest cheerleader for the Kansas Extension of the Miss, let the vast majority of their acreage expire. Potential is nothing more than just that without repeatable results.

----------


## Bellaboo

> People might think that, but the reality is that nobody has enough money for everything.
> 
> The oil industry is an extremely capital intensive industry where smart people don’t over expose themselves to the boom and bust cycles…And  like anywhere else these people and their money seek the highest rates of return on their money and at acceptable risk.


I think George Kaiser makes more from Bank of Oklahoma than Kaiser Francis....not for sure about that, but i'd think so. Nothing is stopping him from his philanthropy though, and i know he does give a lot.

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## ou48A

> The potential? Or is it more of a certainty? Just read that CLR plans to spend hundreds of millions on their SCOOP play. Doubt they would do that if they didnt know with pretty good certainty that it was going to be fruitful. .


CLR has a different economic equation than do many others because they understood the SCOOP opportunity well before most others. They capitalized on this opportunity with generally much cheaper acreage positions that are a very significant part of doing business….. This is when local knowledge and experience really helps and it’s why drillers stay so quite about their prospects…. It’s part of why CLR’s rate of return on its wells is probably the best in this play.
As a small CLR stock owner since 2008 I know they have a great track record on developing their prospects.

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## ou48A

> I think George Kaiser makes more from Bank of Oklahoma than Kaiser Francis....not for sure about that, but i'd think so. Nothing is stopping him from his philanthropy though, and i know he does give a lot.


I believe you are correct

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## bradh

onthestrip, I know it's not the type of education investment you are looking for since it's geared towards educating youth on the science and technogy behind the industry itself, but check out what the OERB does for education.  I have heard straight from many teacher's mouths that some of they work they do for science classrooms K-12 in Oklahoma is greatly appreciated.

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## Plutonic Panda

Oklahoma hits Bureau of Economic Analysis list as one of fastest growing economies in nation | News OK

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## ou48A

This really is a good DOK article and update on the ongoing OIL boom in Oklahoma that’s already pumped billions into the state’s economy and given the tax base a huge boost. Virtually all Oklahoma’s are helped by this boom……. It’s good to see the DOK covering the topic like this. 

Horizontal drilling fuels Oklahoma's latest oil boom | News OK

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## ou48A

This will help and it can’t be blocked.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/enterp...163223544.html

BISMARCK, North Dakota, June 24 (Reuters) - Enterprise Products Partners LP said on Tuesday it would build a 1,200-mile pipeline from North Dakota's Bakken oil fields to Cushing, Oklahoma.

The pipeline, Enterprise's first in North Dakota, would help transport more of the state's crude oil to Cushing, a key gathering and distribution hub for oil produced around the United States.

The pipeline would originate in Stanley, North Dakota, and be 30 inches in diameter. It will have a daily capacity of 340,000 barrels of oil and should be online by the end of 2016, said Brent Secrest, vice president of onshore crude oil, pipelines and terminals for Enterprise.

"Our business right now is focused on Texas and Oklahoma," Secrest said when announcing the project at a pipeline summit hosted by North Dakota's governor. "The goal is we go further north." (Reporting by Ernest Scheyder)

----------


## Edgar

Following Chavismo, his own political ideology of Bolivarianism and Socialism of the 21st Century, he focused on implementing social reforms in the country as a part of a social project known as the Bolivarian Revolution. He implemented the 1999 Venezuelan Constitution, participatory democratic councils, the nationalization of several key industries, and increased government funding of health care and education and made significant reductions in poverty with oil revenues.[1][2] According to the ECLAC, from 1999 to 2012, Venezuela achieved the second highest rate of poverty reduction in the region; with World Bank data showing that the poverty rate dropped from 49.4% to 25.6%.[3][4] The Bolivarian Missions have entailed the construction of thousands of free medical clinics for the poor,[5] the institution of educational campaigns that have made about 1.5 million adult Venezuelans literate[6] (although this claim has been subject of scholarly debate),[7][8] and the enactment of food[9] and housing subsidies.[10]

Okies could use a hero like Chavez to step in and put an end to the exploitation of their natural resources treasure.

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## Dubya61

> Okies could use a hero like Chavez to step in and put an end to the exploitation of their natural resources treasure.


Just to clarify, you want to see a Hugo Chavez-esque leader to come in to Oklahoma and "nationalize" our natural resources?

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Following Chavismo, his own political ideology of Bolivarianism and Socialism of the 21st Century, he focused on implementing social reforms in the country as a part of a social project known as the Bolivarian Revolution. He implemented the 1999 Venezuelan Constitution, participatory democratic councils, the nationalization of several key industries, and increased government funding of health care and education and made significant reductions in poverty with oil revenues.[1][2] According to the ECLAC, from 1999 to 2012, Venezuela achieved the second highest rate of poverty reduction in the region; with World Bank data showing that the poverty rate dropped from 49.4% to 25.6%.[3][4] The Bolivarian Missions have entailed the construction of thousands of free medical clinics for the poor,[5] the institution of educational campaigns that have made about 1.5 million adult Venezuelans literate[6] (although this claim has been subject of scholarly debate),[7][8] and the enactment of food[9] and housing subsidies.[10]
> 
> Okies could use a hero like Chavez to step in and put an end to the exploitation of their natural resources treasure.


I'm trying to decide if it's even worth my time to read this when I already realize that it is likely just a longer version of the typical lunacy Edgar posts....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Edgar

> Just to clarify, you want to see a Hugo Chavez-esque leader to come in to Oklahoma and "nationalize" our natural resources?


No but Hugo would have made damm sure got at least 7% on our state's natural treasure.

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## warreng88

> Following Chavismo, his own political ideology of Bolivarianism and Socialism of the 21st Century, he focused on implementing social reforms in the country as a part of a social project known as the Bolivarian Revolution. He implemented the 1999 Venezuelan Constitution, participatory democratic councils, the nationalization of several key industries, and increased government funding of health care and education and made significant reductions in poverty with oil revenues.[1][2] According to the ECLAC, from 1999 to 2012, Venezuela achieved the second highest rate of poverty reduction in the region; with World Bank data showing that the poverty rate dropped from 49.4% to 25.6%.[3][4] The Bolivarian Missions have entailed the construction of thousands of free medical clinics for the poor,[5] the institution of educational campaigns that have made about 1.5 million adult Venezuelans literate[6] (although this claim has been subject of scholarly debate),[7][8] and the enactment of food[9] and housing subsidies.[10]
> 
> Okies could use a hero like Chavez to step in and put an end to the exploitation of their natural resources treasure.


If anyone was curious, the whole first paragraph came from the Hugo Chavez' wikipedia page. So, none of that was Edgar original idea...

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## PhiAlpha

> If anyone was curious, the whole first paragraph came from the Hugo Chavez' wikipedia page. So, none of that was Edgar original idea...





> I'm trying to decide if it's even worth my time to read this when I already realize that it is likely just a longer version of the typical lunacy Edgar posts....


Guess you just made my decision easier haha.

----------


## Edgar

Take away the massive federal spending in Oklahoma and we have a 3rd world economy of energy and agriculture like Venezuela. we're a poor state that struggles just to have proper core societal functions, and Bloody Mary and the collection of tea party ninnies just gave away our natural treasure to disingenuous Oilies with little in return.  Where is the Okie Hugo Chavez?

----------


## warreng88

> Take away the massive federal spending in Oklahoma and we have a 3rd world economy of energy and agriculture like Venezuela. we're a poor state that struggles just to have proper core societal functions, and Bloody Mary and the collection of tea party ninnies just gave away our natural treasure to disingenuous Oilies with little in return.  Where is the Okie Hugo Chavez?


So, if you hate it so much, why do you live here?

----------


## onthestrip

> Take away the massive federal spending in Oklahoma and we have a 3rd world economy of energy and agriculture like Venezuela. we're a poor state that struggles just to have proper core societal functions, and Bloody Mary and the collection of tea party ninnies just gave away our natural treasure to disingenuous Oilies with little in return.  Where is the Okie Hugo Chavez?


While you may take it to a bit extreme, I find it hard to argue with the fact that we are giving away our natural resources for little in return. Some investment in our state's education, health and infrastructure would be nice. If we cant do it when there is an oil boom, when we will ever do it?

----------


## Bunty

> Take away the massive federal spending in Oklahoma and we have a 3rd world economy of energy and agriculture like Venezuela. we're a poor state that struggles just to have proper core societal functions, and Bloody Mary and the collection of tea party ninnies just gave away our natural treasure to disingenuous Oilies with little in return.  Where is the Okie Hugo Chavez?


I would imagine the middle class of Oklahoma identify with the needs and values of the rich more so than those of the poor.  So not too many middle class people minded it when legislators and Gov. Fallin signed a bill that banned cities from raising their own minimum wage.

----------


## Bunty

> So, if you hate it so much, why do you live here?


Some of us are just plain homebodies without much of an adventuresome spirit to take on a bigger and better modern world.

----------


## warreng88

> Some of us are just plain homebodies without much of an adventuresome spirit to take on a bigger and better modern world.


He could easily move to Tulsa (just 1.5 hours up the road, easy drive) and get everything he wants from the local politics there. Of course, he would still have to deal with O&G companies, aerospace and finance which I am sure he thinks are all corrupt since they make money...

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## Edgar

> Some of us are just plain homebodies without much of an adventuresome spirit to take on a bigger and better modern world.


I've lived in the Middle east and Europe, and used to be a proud Okie. it's a bit more difficult these days and always cringe when I see the map of Ok appear on a news show- it's going to be embarrassing. Oklahoma is in sore need of more progressives.

----------


## Edgar

> While you may take it to a bit extreme, I find it hard to argue with the fact that we are giving away our natural resources for little in return. Some investment in our state's education, health and infrastructure would be nice. If we cant do it when there is an oil boom, when we will ever do it?


for real- other states are flush and able to improve the quality of life. Ok is broke during a boom. what ninnies are running the show.

----------


## warreng88

> I've lived in the Middle east and Europe, and used to be a proud Okie. it's a bit more difficult these days and always cringe when I see the map of Ok appear on a news show- it's going to be embarrassing. Oklahoma is in sore need of more progressives.


What is your definition of progressive?

----------


## Plutonic Panda

I actually kind of agree with Edgar on this one.

Oklahoma has to have one of the largest government dependent economies I've seen.

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## KenRagsdale

Oklahoma is the 27th least dependent state on the federal government for revenue (Wallethub.com, States most and least dependent on federal revenue).

----------


## Bellaboo

> Oklahoma is the 27th least dependent state on the federal government for revenue (Wallethub.com, States most and least dependent on federal revenue).


A few folks here like to spew, whether it's true or not. Twenty seventh is in the middle of the pack, and IIRC, Oklahoma has always paid in more than it's received tax wise.

To me, they like to come to the board and troll.

Edgar, why don't you pick your un-prideful self up and leave  ?

----------


## gopokes88

> I actually kind of agree with Edgar on this one.
> 
> Oklahoma has to have one of the largest government dependent economies I've seen.


Go live in New Mexico and you'll truly learn what a government dependent state is.

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## adaniel

> I actually kind of agree with Edgar on this one.
> 
> Oklahoma has to have one of the largest government dependent economies I've seen.


This. I guess even a busted clock is right twice a day.

Don't know where wallethub got their figures. They tried to do some sort of convoluted "return on investment." IDK how accurate that is, but in terms of actual outlays vs inlays, OK has been a net receiver from the feds for some time. If you believe this map, OK gets about a $1.30 for every $1 it pays. In the region only NM is higher.

I also agree that its pretty unacceptable that OKs budget has been running deficits in the midst of a pretty stout energy boom. And Fallin has not had to answer to it at all and probably won't have to.

----------


## Bunty

> for real- other states are flush and able to improve the quality of life. Ok is broke during a boom. what ninnies are running the show.


In CNBC's best states for business for 2014, Oklahoma ranked 49th for quality of life, having fallen from 45 in 2013.   Overall, it is 28th best state for business.   It's ranking for best state for business has been going downhill, since a high of 23 in 2012.  To me, Oklahoma Republicans don't understand that business people are looking for more than an income tax cut. 

America's Top States For Business

----------


## Bunty

> I've lived in the Middle east and Europe, and used to be a proud Okie. it's a bit more difficult these days and always cringe when I see the map of Ok appear on a news show- it's going to be embarrassing. Oklahoma is in sore need of more progressives.


In other words, people from way back, like Kerr and Bellmon.

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## Plutonic Panda

> Go live in New Mexico and you'll truly learn what a government dependent state is.


dont know that much about New Mexico other than it is pretty and has a very high poverty rate,

----------


## gopokes88

> dont know that much about New Mexico other than it is pretty and has a very high poverty rate,


I'm sure that high poverty rate is completely unrelated to the high government dependence.
Do You Live In A Death Spiral State? - Forbes
Forbes: NM worst ?death spiral state? for investment - Albuquerque Business First

----------


## Edgar

> A few folks here like to spew, whether it's true or not. Twenty seventh is in the middle of the pack, and IIRC, Oklahoma has always paid in more than it's received tax wise.
> 
> To me, they like to come to the board and troll.
> 
> Edgar, why don't you pick your un-prideful self up and leave  ?


Why don't you, that'd help.

----------


## Bellaboo

> Why don't you, that'd help.


Because I'm happy here .....duh

----------


## Edgar

Health Authority weighs Medicaid cuts  Headlines  The Norman Transcript
Ok's economy is doing so well we're receiving less federal funds for Medicaid. you wouldn't think cuts would be necessary with any semblance of sane governance.

----------


## Edgar

> Because I'm happy here .....duh


Me as well. Never hand fished, but I'm an Okie.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> I'm sure that high poverty rate is completely unrelated to the high government dependence.
> Do You Live In A Death Spiral State? - Forbes
> Forbes: NM worst ?death spiral state? for investment - Albuquerque Business First


Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but I honestly don't know. I just know what I told you I know about New Mexico, which isn't much. I've been through there a few times and Albuquerque is a very beautiful city and the rest of the state is very nice and scenic.

I've just heard it has some of the highest poverty levels out there, not sure why though. It would appear to me out of common sense that if the government is the biggest employer, that would play some role. But I don't know if that is accurate or not.

----------


## warreng88

> Me as well. Never hand fished, but I'm an Okie.


Well, you're obviously not happy here because all you do is complain about Oklahoma.

----------


## gopokes88

> Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but I honestly don't know. I just know what I told you I know about New Mexico, which isn't much. I've been through there a few times and Albuquerque is a very beautiful city and the rest of the state is very nice and scenic.
> 
> I've just heard it has some of the highest poverty levels out there, not sure why though. It would appear to me out of common sense that if the government is the biggest employer, that would play some role. But I don't know if that is accurate or not.


It's exactly the reason that state is so poor. While oklahoma may have some reliance on government it is no where near the level of others.

----------


## zookeeper

New Mexico is poor for a lot of reasons. But one thing I find interesting is that it has the largest disparity between the rich and poor (rich and everybody else really) in all of America. But, why are we discussing this in the Oklahoma Business Energy News section?

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Glad to see this

Fracking bans unlikely in Oklahoma, observers say | News OK

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Also, I wasn't sure where this should go or if a new thread should be created on it. I don't know the significance of it really, but if someone thinks a thread should be created, please do.

Aubrey McClendon selected to manage second energy investment firm | News OK

----------


## Plutonic Panda

New Crude Oil Pipeline Planned From Cushing To Memphis - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Wow, this is fantastic news!

Oklahoma poised to surpass California, Alaska in oil production, Continental Resources CEO says | News OK

----------


## oklip955

I'm wondering with this news and the Tinker/Boeing news, how many new jobs is the Okc metro and state looking at adding soon? I would guess that this would up the number of new rooftops and be a boost for us getting more new retail.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

I really think OKC is going to hit a boom that will blow expectations out of the water soon.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Energy company says Oklahoma on track to become nation's third-largest oil producer | Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com

----------


## ljbab728

> Energy company says Oklahoma on track to become nation's third-largest oil producer | Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com


Plupan, did you forget about your post number 279 or did you intend to post the same information twice?   :Smile:

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Well that was from NewsOk, I just thought I'd post the article from Koco 5... guess they pretty much are the same thing though

----------


## ljbab728

> Well that was from NewsOk, I just thought I'd post the article from Koco 5... guess they pretty much are the same thing though


And it pads your post count.   :Smile: 

I know you're just trying to catch up with me.  LOL

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Energy company announces layoffs in Oklahoma City - Tulsa World: Employment

http://newsok.com/energy-company-ann...rticle/5345671

----------


## s00nr1

Just another prime example of why OKC needs to focus on diverse economic growth, without relying too heavily on oil and gas.

----------


## ljbab728

> Just another prime example of why OKC needs to focus on diverse economic growth, without relying too heavily on oil and gas.


Which, of course, is what OKC is doing.  With 97 jobs, that company really has no impact on OKC's business climate.  Even the major layoffs at Chesapeake had little affect.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Just another prime example of why OKC needs to focus on diverse economic growth, without relying too heavily on oil and gas.


This isn't really new news, it's been coming for awhile and is a non-HQ, isolated corporate acquisition issue that is not indicative of the industry's strength as a whole. This type of layoff could happen with any company in any industry. 

I agree that we should continue diversifying the economy, but this is a terrible example of why we should be doing so.

----------


## zookeeper

Despite my problems with Big Energy, I certainly don't wish for another energy  "bust." But....

 I have been reading some things that truly frighten me.  Talk of a "Shale-Oil" bubble burst is on the rise and this could absolutely decimate Oklahoma City. The talk of a "shale bust" is scary enough. In all sincerity, it worries me. Just google - oil gas shale bubble bust - and start reading. If it turns out the major investments in shale gas plays created a bubble (in the economic sense), the burst could be awful. Not to be alarmist at all, I am sincerely worried that Oklahoma City's eggs are disproportionately in one basket. We are no sooner off the ground as a great and growing city and - in a heartbeat - it could all tumble and we'd be saying, "What the ^&^$ happened?" Is anybody daring enough in this city to draw up a contingency plan for a major bubble burst in oil and/or gas? Wall Street and the financial industry was bailed out and it still did horrible damage to many areas of the country. Would Washington be so kind to, especially, bail out the shale players, (who are already seen as reckless and brash by many in our capital)?

Dead serious. What would we do?

  A few weeks ago: The Popping of the Shale Gas Bubble - Forbes

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...-staying-power

http://www.outsiderclub.com/report/t...gas-ponzi/1041

http://grist.org/climate-energy/is-t...dit-thinks-so/

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-fra...bubble/5326504

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecol...ed-for-a-bust/

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Oil, natural gas industry growth shows in Oklahoma as conferences flourish | News OK

Oklahoma City holds two oil, gas expos | News OK

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Iodine production booming in Oklahoma ? and only in Oklahoma | News OK

----------


## bradh

> Oil, natural gas industry growth shows in Oklahoma as conferences flourish | News OK
> 
> Oklahoma City holds two oil, gas expos | News OK


One expo is held and ran by local people for local people, and has been doing this expo for 18 years..  The other, ran by an out of state company, says they aren't trying to compete with SOER's expo, but last year ran ads saying "have your expo returns been marginal?" which was a shot at the former Marginal Well Commission.  They also nickel and dime the hell out of their exhibitors like Spirit Airlines for everything from internet, power, forklifts, golf carts, while SOER's expo charges one flat fee for everything.  That company also paid to have their Google ad show up first if you searched for SOER's expo, and flat out lied about it to the public.  They also tricked exhibitors into thinking they were registering for the SOER show.

----------


## pw405

> Despite my problems with Big Energy, I certainly don't wish for another energy  "bust." But....
> 
>  I have been reading some things that truly frighten me.  Talk of a "Shale-Oil" bubble burst is on the rise and this could absolutely decimate Oklahoma City. The talk of a "shale bust" is scary enough. In all sincerity, it worries me. Just google - oil gas shale bubble bust - and start reading. If it turns out the major investments in shale gas plays created a bubble (in the economic sense), the burst could be awful. Not to be alarmist at all, I am sincerely worried that Oklahoma City's eggs are disproportionately in one basket. We are no sooner off the ground as a great and growing city and - in a heartbeat - it could all tumble and we'd be saying, "What the ^&^$ happened?" Is anybody daring enough in this city to draw up a contingency plan for a major bubble burst in oil and/or gas? Wall Street and the financial industry was bailed out and it still did horrible damage to many areas of the country. Would Washington be so kind to, especially, bail out the shale players, (who are already seen as reckless and brash by many in our capital)?
> 
> Dead serious. What would we do?
> 
> 
>   A few weeks ago: The Popping of the Shale Gas Bubble - Forbes
> 
> ...



Good question... can anybody with more knowledge speak to the credibility of these articles?  I read them all and it certainly doesn't inspire much confidence for the long run.  We all know that fossil fuels won't last forever, and I feel that our state needs to prepare for another downtown.  While a huge oil bust certainly won't be good for OKC, I couldn't imagine what it would do to Houston.  There is soooo many energy industry companies there.

----------


## Bellaboo

If the US would allow crude oil (not refined products) to be sold overseas, there would be no bust.

Let there be an extremely cold winter, that would help too.

Also keep in mind, the initial flows are good, but they taper off significantly. If drilling would slow, they could impact the price.

Just my thoughts.

----------


## PWitty

I haven't read those articles, but I can tell you without reading them that they're probably regurgitating the same views on shale gas/tight oil that have been written about over and over the last 10 years.

I don't understand the cynics insistence on shooting down the potential for shale gas/tight oil because of their decline curves. Yes, the wells have VERY steep decline curves over the first couple years of production. But what seems to get lost is that the wells come on at such outrageously high flow rates (relative to a cheaper conventional well) that in almost all cases the drilling/completion costs are completely recovered within a year or two, if not much sooner. So from a financial standpoint, it is far from a ponzi scheme like some would like to proclaim. Even after the wells have declined and their production begins to flatten out, they're still producing at higher rates than a typical conventional well would be. And at that point it's just money in the bank.

Replacing production from these declining wells, on the other hand, is a little different. It is true that because of the steep decline curves that new wells must continuously be drilled to offset the production loss. But that is true of any oil and gas field anywhere in the world. Now days most operator's wells are coming on MUCH stronger than their older wells in the field, because their drilling/completion techniques continue to become much more cost effective and efficient. Also, the geologic nature of these unconventional reservoirs actually REQUIRE operators to drill more wells to improve their overall recovery from the formation. The low porosity and permeability of these unconventional formations restrict flow of oil and gas from the formation into the wellbore. Because of that, in many cases a single well is most likely only producing the hydrocarbons that were contained inside the fracture network created by the hydraulic fracturing stimulation. In other words, these operators have plenty of inventory to drill. They won't be running out of locations any time soon. And all that is assuming that there are no new innovations that take place from this point forward.

One thing that I get annoyed by is folks pointing at overall production trends and using that to proclaim that US oil and gas is a bust or that a field is dead. One such instance right now is that many US shale gas fields appear to already be in production decline. That isn't because operators couldn't keep production up, it's because natural gas prices cratered so all the operators shifted their rigs from dry gas to wet gas and oil rich fields. The commodity price drop also means that the field's reserve numbers are cut down. But neither of these things mean that the gas is gone. All it takes is an upswing in gas prices and you'll see those field's production numbers start climbing once again. Heck, in some fields it has nothing to do with the price at all. Up in the Marcellus, production is some regions of the play is flatlining. But it has nothing to do with gas prices or the reservoir reaching its limits. It's simply because there isn't adequate pipeline infrastructure to bring the gas to market, so the operators have to slow down their operations. The same thing could apply to US oil production right now. If production from the Middle-East starts coming back online, thereby driving down global oil prices, then rig counts in the US may eventually begin to drop and production may therefore begin to decline. But the production decline doesn't mean the formation has hit its limits, or that production couldn't be increased again if prices were to raise. There are so many things that factor into oil/gas production trends. It just seems shortsighted to me to look at a production trend and proclaim the death of the US oil/gas industry.

----------


## progressiveboy

Interesting article posted. Even the residents of Houston are wondering how long will the O&G business thrive? 



Houston boom is raising eyebrows and worries about an eventual bust | Dallas Morning News

----------


## bradh

PWitty as usual, dropping great knowledge about O&G, thanks again.

The Houston boom is OKC x10000000, it's nuts.

----------


## gopokes88

It's gotta be exhausting constantly worried about how things could go wrong and destroy us all. Everything booms and busts it's the way business is. Ask Sears.

----------


## zookeeper

I can't believe Pwitty's post got so many likes. He even admitted to not reading the articles! It was clear he hadn't as *he* actually argued the case for a coming bubble burst without realizing it. Did anybody else not see how he actually showed WHY a bubble burst is possible? It was funny - he talked about the articles probably  "regurgitating" the same old anti oil and gas line, while he did nothing but regurgitate the non-response to the worries (nothing partisan about it) discussed in the articles. EXCEPT, he basically argued the same arguments. Surely I'm not the only one that realized that?

To see something like this a real possibility ahead of us is NOT partisan and it's NOT wishing it would happen.  To ignore it, or act like it's nothing more than some tiny blip is irresponsible. Sears? Really? Quite different...by trillions of dollars.

PWitty basically lays out why a bubble burst  is on the way (while thinking he's debunking it) and he receives all the "likes" and accolades for having the answers that put people at ease. Scary.

----------


## bradh

I have no idea how you got that from that post, but whatever.  Look no one is saying that a bust can't happen, but PWitty took the time to type out a thoughtful informative post about O&G (which he/she always does) which I found informative.  

I don't know what your end game is, if it's diversification of OKC's economic profile, sure, who is going to argue against that?  If it's "down with oil!" or whatever the cry of the week is from that crowd, then I don't know what to tell you.

----------


## PWitty

Thanks Pahdz, I appreciate it. 

Zookeeper, I don't know what to tell you if that's what you took away from my post. When most shale skeptics talk about the impending "bust", they're referring to what they believe to be unsustainable levels of US oil and gas production due to the well's initial depletion rates, and the well's "ponzi scheme" financials. I tried to briefly explain why I personally believe that both of those concerns are invalid. Yes, I did briefly touch on how it is possible for there to be a fluctuation in each commodities prices, which can effect rig count and thereby lead to a decline in production. But my point in mentioning that was to show that just because there is a decline in domestic production, doesn't mean that the reservoirs have reached their limits or that the shale gas/tight oil revolution has ended as many of those authors tried to imply.

Looking back at those articles, almost all of them mention the large cuts in shale gas reserves and lean on that as one of their biggest reasons why the latest O&G revolution is a failure, and use that as proof that widespread "fracking" isn't producing as much gas as initially thought. In reality, they're only proving that they don't fully understand the topic they're writing about. Like I mentioned in my previous post, shale gas production in many basins hasn't declined because the reservoirs have reached their limits, it declined because the price of natural gas dropped so significantly that it made more sense economically for the operators to shift those rigs from dry gas to liquids-rich basins, therefore sending those fields into production decline. The price of natural gas dropped because the reservoirs were TOO good, and they brought more gas online than the market could handle. Proved reserves, as the SEC defines them, are gas volumes that can be extracted with current technology under the present economic environment. So when the price of natural gas dropped, it resulted in a reduction in proven US shale gas reserves. The drop in reserves had nothing to do with the reservoirs not being as good as initially thought, and is not an indictment on the quality of the reservoirs, like several of those authors try to claim. All that gas is still sitting in the ground waiting to be extracted. And when the price of natural gas raises, in the future, all of those reserves that were dropped within the last few years will be re-added.

As I've said before, I'm just trying to bring an educated perspective to the table to combat all the doom-and-gloom articles that I see posted on here from time-to-time. In the end, you're free to believe whatever you want.

----------


## zookeeper

I'll be back with more later (don't have time right this second) because it bothers me that people fail to see the dangers to Oklahoma City with no plans in a desk drawer somewhere.

Here's the problem with what PWitty is saying, and I have to hurry - forgive any typos, etc.  He is making excuses for the production drops, even conservative writers are starting to ask the tough questions about production levels.

*First* - what is a bubble? Value held in the stock market that's based on NOTHING, or perceived value that turned out to not be what everyone thought it was. The shale gas plays -  the respective companies involved have all promised, to irresponsible levels, down to figures, and the _number of years of "independence"_ that are in these big shale gas plays. Is it there? If it is - belly up to the bar and show us, quit making excuses about prices, etc. All the market knows is that, f*or whatever reason* (and that is a key), it's beginning to look like the value that so many have invested in - is simply not there. If it is not - what happens? Millions (billions and billions of dollars) flee from these companies (many based right here in Oklahoma City) who have sold a bill of goods based on false value. It wasn't the intention - it was just new - and nobody realized how quickly these things dry up. Why the dismantling, PWitty? If they're just waiting for prices....I could go on.

As for doom and gloom. It's called _financial responsibility_. Many have poured billions of dollars into the trust of those numbers. If the value isn't there, as more and more people are questioning - bubble burst. Just like the the Internet bust, the housing bust (which triggered a domino effect). 

Frankly, I don't need a lecture about boom and bust and doom and gloom. I lived through the eighties. We all saw the 2007 bust. Many right here on this forum insisted that Aubrey McClendon could do no wrong, that rumors about how he played the game were false and that McClendon would be at Chesapeake as long as he wanted to be there. He's lucky to be a free man and not in prison. Some of the very same names in this thread argued that those who were speaking the truth about McClendon before anything hit any media at all were "doom and gloomers" pushing the same old fears.

*For whatever reason.* That is so important as people make decisions as to whether the value is there or is simply "funny money." The consequences are bigger than anybody here could possibly imagine. Look away and make fun of the doomsayers, call them less than kind words. The warning signs are all there. They are lining up. Don't say anybody at OKCTalk wasn't asked to begin thinking of how we deal with a possible shale bubble burst. Or, we can shut our eyes, like many of you did with Aubrey McClendon at Chesapeake.

Nothing personal. Nothing partisan. I am worried - that's all.

Oh....PWitty wrote: "I'm just trying to bring an educated perspective to the table to combat  all the doom-and-gloom articles that I see posted on here from  time-to-time. In the end, you're free to believe whatever you want." Its is NOT a matter of "believing" one side or the other. There is staggering amounts of value (money) underneath - or there is not. We won't "believe" anything - we will all learn one way or the other. With all due respect your "educated perspective," is nothing more than PR spin from the same people who may have oversold _dramatically_ the value that is there - or is not there. Period.

----------


## Rover

Funny Zoo, you say it isn't personal, but it sure reads like it.  Particularly with Aubrey.  .  

By the way, many oil companies, including our own, have spent the last couple of years trying to balance their gas reserves and their oil.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> I'll be back with more later (don't have time right this second) because it bothers me that people fail to see the dangers to Oklahoma City with no plans in a desk drawer somewhere.
> 
> Here's the problem with what PWitty is saying, and I have to hurry - forgive any typos, etc.  He is making excuses for the production drops, even conservative writers are starting to ask the tough questions about production levels.
> 
> *First* - what is a bubble? Value held in the stock market that's based on NOTHING, or perceived value that turned out to not be what everyone thought it was. The shale gas plays -  the respective companies involved have all promised, to irresponsible levels, down to figures, and the _number of years of "independence"_ that are in these big shale gas plays. Is it there? If it is - belly up to the bar and show us, quit making excuses about prices, etc. All the market knows is that, f*or whatever reason* (and that is a key), it's beginning to look like the value that so many have invested in - is simply not there. If it is not - what happens? Millions (billions and billions of dollars) flee from these companies (many based right here in Oklahoma City) who have sold a bill of goods based on false value. It wasn't the intention - it was just new - and nobody realized how quickly these things dry up. Why the dismantling, PWitty? If they're just waiting for prices....I could go on.
> 
> As for doom and gloom. It's called _financial responsibility_. Many have poured billions of dollars into the trust of those numbers. If the value isn't there, as more and more people are questioning - bubble burst. Just like the the Internet bust, the housing bust (which triggered a domino effect). 
> 
> Frankly, I don't need a lecture about boom and bust and doom and gloom. I lived through the eighties. We all saw the 2007 bust. Many right here on this forum insisted that Aubrey McClendon could do no wrong, that rumors about how he played the game were false and that McClendon would be at Chesapeake as long as he wanted to be there. He's lucky to be a free man and not in prison. Some of the very same names in this thread argued that those who were speaking the truth about McClendon before anything hit any media at all were "doom and gloomers" pushing the same old fears.
> ...


Have you not seen the diversification that is going on here? If anything, I would be worried more about the collapse of Tinker and other government jobs than I would o&g for OKC, but that's my opinion and isn't really backed up by anything solid.

I agree with PWitty and it is obvious he really knows what he's talking about. I don't see him making any comments that read as if he is making excuses or being against OKC diversifying its economy.

Have a look at the expanding manufacturing base that is being added. The Will Rodgers Eastside development has a lot of new offices planned for aerospace jobs. OKC is also growing in Biotech as well. The one I wish OKC would really get is high-tech jobs, but other than that, I'd venture to say we have really diversified lately.

I agree with PWitty.

----------


## zookeeper

PWitty, I said nothing about Aubrey McClendon that others in the industry don't believe. *He is lucky to have escaped prison.* I think McClendon knows he's lucky. Of course, Chesapeake is still having to fight lawsuits brought against the company for shenanigans during his reign. I just told the truth, and it's not personal, just the truth.

Whatever, PluPan. Half the time I'm lost within the first few lines of your posts. It's certainly not a serious part of this discussion.

The latest news on this issue:

Fracking for Shale Gas: The new dot.com/subprime mortgage bubble? 

I hope some of you are open-minded enough to seriously consider the ramifications. We have not diversified enough to keep another energy bust (from whatever sector) from leaving Oklahoma City in the dust. This is the last thing we want. But turning the other way because we don't want to hear it is not helpful.

A contingency plan for dealing with the ramifications to Oklahoma City must be drawn up. Hopefully to never be used.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> I'm lost within the first few lines of your posts. It's certainly not a serious part of this discussion.


I appreciate it.

----------


## PWitty

So, let me get this straight. You think that the folks in the investment community, who are investing their own money in these companies, want all these operators to continue to ramp up production and intentionally lose money (assuming the prices/demand aren't there to support increased production) just to prove to the world that these reservoirs have the reserves that the companies claim they have? 

You clearly have some personal bias towards the industry, and CHK and Aubrey McClendon in particular, because most of your response is more aimed at slandering them than arguing anything I've said.

----------


## zookeeper

Personal decision. Please respect my decision. Good luck to you all.

----------


## PhiAlpha

Double post

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Personal decision. Please respect my decision. Good luck to you all.


You're bailing on OKCtalk because people disagree with you? Not to disrespect your decision, but that seems like a weak way to exit a discussion. As I found from stupidly venturing into the politics section for the political earthquake thread, It's completely possible to agree to disagree and move on...even if the people you're having the discussion with are acting like complete jackasses (for the record, I don't think anything anyone has said here fits that description, nor do I put you in that category after our previous discussions). If you're going to throw an opinion out there, be prepared for people to disagree with it. 

I would like to respond to your earlier post as well, I just haven't had time to read through the articles and put something together. I largely agree with PWitty, but I think there is definitely some validity to both sides of this argument.

----------


## onthestrip

Not sure about any bubbles buts whats with CHK and SD stock? They both hit 52 week highs less than 3 months ago and now are at or near 52 week lows.

----------


## gopokes88

> Not sure about any bubbles buts whats with CHK and SD stock? They both hit 52 week highs less than 3 months ago and now are at or near 52 week lows.


Look at the price of oil.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Not sure about any bubbles buts whats with CHK and SD stock? They both hit 52 week highs less than 3 months ago and now are at or near 52 week lows.


The reduction in the price of both oil and natural gas as well as the general downward trend in the market over the last few months are mostly to blame. It has negatively affected most energy stocks, not just CHK and SD.

----------


## Bellaboo

> The reduction in the price of both oil and natural gas as well as the general downward trend in the market over the last few months are mostly to blame. It has negatively affected most energy stocks, not just CHK and SD.


Article the other day how XOM has last 36 billion market cap since May....  all due to price decline.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Article the other day how XOM has last 36 billion market cap since May....  all due to price decline.


Yep, it's defintely affecting everyone. Hasn't seemed to hurt drilling activity much yet so hopefully it stays that way

----------


## gopokes88

Oil stocks are just on sale. No big deal.

----------


## Laramie

DUG Oil and Gas Conference leaving Tulsa for Oklahoma City in 2015 
*

DUG* is an acronym for Developing Unconventional oil and Gas, such as horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing in shale rock formations.

_The DUG Midcontinent Energy Conference, which originated in Tulsa nearly two years ago, will be moving to Oklahoma City next year, the events organizers announced on Tuesday.

Attendance had grown 25 percent and exhibitors by 60 percent in Tulsa, but Hart Energy was persuaded to move the DUG Midcontinent to Oklahoma City after multiple requests from local companies. Oklahoma City is the home of large companies such as Devon Energy, SandRidge Energy, Continental Resources and Chesapeake.

Among the options were considering is an alternating schedule for DUG Midcontinent (between Tulsa and OKC), Salerno said in an email to the Tulsa World. Weve also had discussions with VisitTulsa about another, different conference and exhibition in Tulsa  but were not ready to elaborate on those plans just yet._

DUG Oil and Gas Conference leaving Tulsa for Oklahoma City in 2015 - Tulsa World: Energy

Oklahoma City could become the future home to many energy conferences which bring exhibitors.   We need to put a top one priority on the new convention center complex.

----------


## ou48A

When you know as much as PWitty you dont need to read the links to know what you are talking about. 
Odds are that he and several others here know more about the industry than most of the people who just  write about it.
 Some of us have lived it. I appreciate their perspective.

----------


## gopokes88

Oil in a free fall. Energy stocks are on sale big time. Cheseapeake at $19/share

----------


## s00nr1

$18.50 is my level on CHK to load up.

----------


## ou48A

> Oil stocks are just on sale. No big deal.


Unfortunately unless the Saudis change their policy the oil price decline looks like it’s going to be a very big deal for the next few months and perhaps next few years. The Saudis have usually trimmed or increased its production to control prices. Right now the world is awash in crude… Drill baby drill worked so well the Saudis are now driving crude prices down to recapture market share. 
They are going to try and drive crude that has higher production cost off the market…. They have done this before.

The stronger dollar and lower demanded from China and Europe has helped weaken prices.
 There is some thought that crude prices are being lowered to punish Russia and ISIS?

If the decline continues for very much longer it’s going to seriously impact our state’s economy and tax revenue.
 The good news is that the lower crude prices should help stimulate the broader national economy. Many people will enjoy the lower fuel cost and have a little more money to spend.

----------


## gopokes88

> Unfortunately unless the Saudis change their policy the oil price decline looks like it’s going to be a very big deal for the next few months and perhaps next few years. The Saudis have usually trimmed or increased its production to control prices. Right now the world is awash in crude… Drill baby drill worked so well the Saudis are now driving crude prices down to recapture market share. 
> They are going to try and drive crude that has higher production cost off the market…. They have done this before.
> 
> The stronger dollar and lower demanded from China and Europe has helped weaken prices.
>  There is some thought that crude prices are being lowered to punish Russia and ISIS?
> 
> If the decline continues for very much longer it’s going to seriously impact our state’s economy and tax revenue.
>  The good news is that the lower crude prices should help stimulate the broader national economy. Many people will enjoy the lower fuel cost and have a little more money to spend.


It actually will do nothing to stimulate the national economy. Instead of spending money gas people then just spend on movies. It's moving money from the right hand to the left. Although it will help improve the national mood. 

It's going to stabilize soon and probably in the $84 range. It's been beaten down for weeks straight now. 

OPEC will cut production next month and that will provide a floor. OPEC needs it at $100 a barrel.

American production will start to fall somewhat in the winter especially in the Bakken.

A bitter cold winter will provide even more support. 

I don't think you see it dip below $75. They're still making money, just not hand over fist.

----------


## ou48A

> It actually will do nothing to stimulate the national economy. Instead of spending money gas people then just spend on movies. It's moving money from the right hand to the left. Although it will help improve the national mood. 
> 
> It's going to stabilize soon and probably in the $84 range. It's been beaten down for weeks straight now. 
> 
> OPEC will cut production next month and that will provide a floor. OPEC needs it at $100 a barrel.
> 
> American production will start to fall somewhat in the winter especially in the Bakken.
> 
> A bitter cold winter will provide even more support. 
> ...


In order to drive high cost crude off the market the figure I have heard is around $60.
The Saudis don’t care about the rest of OPEC. They have Iran to worry about. Low cost crude harms the Iranians a lot more than the Saudis. Harming Iran is also a very major Saudi goal. We could see the Saudis over producing for a long period of time. The Saudis have about 2.5 million barrels of spare daily capacity they could kick in anytime they want.  Production cuts by other OPEC members could easily be made up for.

In the past major declines in crude oil prices has been flowed by an improved national economy with a lag time of about 6 to 9 months. But due to large heath care cost increases I don’t expect to see the same dynamic improvements that we saw in the mid 80’s and 90’s.

----------


## Laramie

Gas prices can sometimes be a precursor to economic trends.   Let us hope for the best.

----------


## s00nr1

Midstream taking the brunt of the hit today.

SSE down 12%
ENLK down 7%
MMP down 7%
ACMP down 5%

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Oklahoma leads the nation in gypsum mining | News OK

----------


## dankrutka

Not sure where to put this and I don't know Devon's exact role, but the campaign has been very negative: 

Frackers Have Launched an Aggressive Campaign to Kill Denton's Drilling Ban | Dallas Observer

I can't vouch for most of the info in the article though. Just thought I'd pass it along.

----------


## bchris02

So crude is now at $80/bbl.  How low does it have to go before it signals trouble?

----------


## s00nr1

Hard to give a specific number due to various hedging programs used by different E&Ps but I'd say you'd start to see some enhanced nervousness in the $65-68 range. Still a long way to go to get there, however.

----------


## mugofbeer

Oil production is more affected by the drop.  Gas heavies have been somewhat insulated.  Some hi cost oil producers already worried

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Oil prices won't slow Oklahoma drilling for a while | News OK

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Lower gas prices could mean economic impact down the road | News OK

----------


## bchris02

Lets see what happens after the midterm elections.  For one reason or another there is always a temporary drop in oil prices in the weeks running up to an election.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Harold Hamm predicts Oklahoma oil production will pass Alaska soon - Tulsa World: Business

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Price Of Gasoline Rising In Oklahoma - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

----------


## bchris02

Pro: Energy investors should prepare for $60 oil

To those who know more than I, is this something to be concerned about?  How at risk is OKC to another '80s style crash?

----------


## bradh

> Pro: Energy investors should prepare for $60 oil
> 
> To those who know more than I, is this something to be concerned about?  How at risk is OKC to another '80s style crash?


I don't think $60 would bring that style of "crash," just seems like you'd need to see something like half of that to do that.

I do find this funny after a couple years ago everyone was freaking out that we had passed "Peak Oil"

----------


## bchris02

> I don't think $60 would bring that style of "crash," just seems like you'd need to see something like half of that to do that.
> 
> I do find this funny after a couple years ago everyone was freaking out that we had passed "Peak Oil"


Before fracking and other forms of non-conventional production, peak oil was a real threat.  Had it come to pass it would have been a permanent great depression. Today the important thing is that the price stays high enough so that production remains profitable but low enough that it doesn't shock consumers.  I simply hope we don't enter into a prolonged period of oil prices too low which in turn could derail the economic boom in OKC.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Pro: Energy investors should prepare for $60 oil
> 
> To those who know more than I, is this something to be concerned about?  How at risk is OKC to another '80s style crash?


It wouldn't cause an 80s style crash but a prolonged period of $60 oil would definitely slow drilling in some of the higher drilling cost plays. Many projects that would be economic between $80 and $100 oil would be delayed until the price improves. On the other hand, companies with little debt and some cash on hand will likely use the lower prices to their advantage and buy more properties. If it goes much lower than $60 for a long period of time, we might be in trouble, but even then, just like during the price dip in 2008, it should come back up.

----------


## adaniel

I can tell you, a lot of stuff in the SCOOP would be shutting down at $60, or even $70 for that matter. That is one of the more high cost plays in the nation. From what I am hearing, a lot of stuff in the Eagle Ford may be pulled back as well.

With that in mind, I am not worried about a full-on crash, at least not yet. The decline curves on these horizontal wells is so steep, even a slight pullback in drilling would signficantly reduce production. Also, the majors might start pulling back, but the independent drillers--the Devons, Chesapeakes, and Continentals of the world--haven't indicated they plan to scale back anytime soon. 

Personally, I work for an exploitation company, so the tapping of the breaks right now should be a big boon for my company. We can scoop up some acreage on the cheap, and I imagine a lot of other companies may as well.

----------


## ljbab728

Oklahoma City's Gulfport Energy Corp. to break ground on new headquarters | NewsOK.com




> Gulfport Energy Corp. will poke a different kind of hole in the ground when it ceremonially starts work on a new corporate headquarters in Quail Springs Office Park.
> 
> The new $30 million building, designed by RBA Architects, will have underground parking, a staff restaurant, fitness center and auditorium on six floors totaling 120,000 square feet of space, said Rick Brown, principal architect. A groundbreaking ceremony will be at 1:30 p.m. Friday.
> 
> Brown said the building’s architecture will suggest the function of its owner-occupant.
> 
> “A glass tower on the southeast corner ... will feature LED lighting affixed to internal X-bracing, symbolizing the illumination seen on oil derricks,” he said. “The building has a curved, glass front, with aluminum panels and sunscreens designed to integrate the dynamic image of the company with energy-efficient, sustainable practice.”

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Oklahoma City's Gulfport Energy Corp. to break ground on new headquarters | NewsOK.com


Might I suggest you create a new thread in the development section? If not, I can or Pete probably will. This is pretty cool! Glad to see this!!

----------


## Plutonic Panda

I'm trying to find the renderings on their website. I could go to city permits I guess, but I'm not sure how to do that for OKC.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

PS, they also have a pretty cool project planned for NE122 St. and Broadway ext.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Baker Hughes closes Clinton, Oklahoma, office, lays off 62 | News OK

----------


## bchris02

Enable Midstream plans to cut 10 percent of workforce amid lower oil prices | News OK

----------


## PhiAlpha

I just heard that Range Resources shut down their OKC office today without warning. Everyone was basically given severance packages and boxes to pack up their belongs. My source is generally pretty good, but I haven't talked to anyone I know there yet and haven't seen anything in the news. Hopefully my source is wrong but keep your eyes open for more info.

On Edit: a second high ranking source at another company heard this as well, not looking good.

----------


## gurantula35

I have a friend that works there and he confirmed it to me.  

Some people were given severance packages, some were given transition/severance packages, and some were given the opportunity to relocate to Ft Worth or other divisions.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> I have a friend that works there and he confirmed it to me.  
> 
> Some people were given severance packages, some were given transition/severance packages, and some were given the opportunity to relocate to Ft Worth or other divisions.


Well crap...

----------


## Pete

Any idea how many employees were at the Range office in OKC?

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Any idea how many employees were at the Range office in OKC?


I think it was some where between 50-100 but I'm not sure.

----------


## zookeeper

About Enable....it sounds like they had the chutzpah to announce the layoffs and announce the intention to continue acceptance for Quality Jobs money at the same time. Their PR guy says how sorry they are about the layoffs and know it will hurt a lot of people and then says according to the Oklahoman "Alford said Monday’s announcement wasn’t expected to jeopardize long-term plans by the company to take advantage of state and local job-creation incentives."

*Note: Enable has assets of 11.7 BILLION dollars. But, they need layoffs - and - part of your paycheck. Stop this insanity!*

----------


## gurantula35

> I think it was some where between 50-100 but I'm not sure.


My friend says closer to 100

----------


## PhiAlpha

> My friend says closer to 100


After doing some further research, that is my conclusion as well.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> About Enable....it sounds like they had the chutzpah to announce the layoffs and announce the intention to continue acceptance for Quality Jobs money at the same time. Their PR guy says how sorry they are about the layoffs and know it will hurt a lot of people and then says according to the Oklahoman "Alford said Monday’s announcement wasn’t expected to jeopardize long-term plans by the company to take advantage of state and local job-creation incentives."
> 
> *Note: Enable has assets of 11.7 BILLION dollars. But, they need layoffs - and - part of your paycheck. Stop this insanity!*


It is stuff like this that fosters the attitude of "screw 'em".

----------


## BillyOcean

> I have a friend that works there and he confirmed it to me.  
> 
> Some people were given severance packages, some were given transition/severance packages, and some were given the opportunity to relocate to Ft Worth or other divisions.


that is cold....have always wondered about this OKC office though.  not much accomplished here in terms of profit.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> About Enable....it sounds like they had the chutzpah to announce the layoffs and announce the intention to continue acceptance for Quality Jobs money at the same time. Their PR guy says how sorry they are about the layoffs and know it will hurt a lot of people and then says according to the Oklahoman "Alford said Mondays announcement wasnt expected to jeopardize long-term plans by the company to take advantage of state and local job-creation incentives."
> 
> *Note: Enable has assets of 11.7 BILLION dollars. But, they need layoffs - and - part of your paycheck. Stop this insanity!*


Not that I disagree with what you're trying to say, but in the bolded text you mention that they have 11.7 Billion in assets and insinuate that they shouldn't let people go when they are worth so much money. That 11.7 billion dollars is mostly tied up in physical assets like pipelines, gathering systems, compressor stations, and other equipment used in their operations. These are not cash assets, so it doesn't really make sense to slam them for laying people off due to their massive pipeline asset base. They wouldn't ever sell those long term assets to keep 10% of their company employed (I don't think any midstream company would), it just doesn't make sense to do that, especially right now when they would have to sell them at a discount. Those pipelines aren't generating as much revenue right now and exploration has slowed leading to less need for new pipelines and gathering systems so there is less money and work to go around and that is the reason for the layoff. 

It does seem like a premature decision for a midstream company to start letting people go after 6 months of lower prices though and I agree with you on the quality job incentive issues. I have no problem with them applying for and taking incentives since the city/state offers them (whether they should or not is another discussion), but if they are reducing staff to below whatever the threshold was for new jobs, I think they should give some of that money back. Chesapeake did something similar in 2013, I think?

----------


## PhiAlpha

> that is cold....have always wondered about this OKC office though.  not much accomplished here in terms of profit.


They have a decent mid-continent asset base in ok and the texas panhandle but have not been near as active here as in the northeast or texas. I have wondered why they needed such a large office up here as well, especially with their HQ in Fort Worth.

----------


## gopokes88

It's a pretty simple solution for the quality jobs incentives. 

There has to be a net gain in total # of employees in 2 years after the incentive was used, or the money is claw-backed to that state. 

In other words we will reward you for creating sustainable quality jobs, not jobs you create to game the system. I don't think anyone here has any problem using taxpayer money for the GE jobs (side note I would think/hope GE is fixing to go into growth mode on that front, right now they have an attractive product that could get the well costs down).

----------


## ljbab728

> Any idea how many employees were at the Range office in OKC?


Range Resources closes Oklahoma City office with loss of 100 jobs | NewsOK.com

----------


## jccouger

There are more people losing jobs that aren't making news. A lot of them wouldn't be considered "oil" companies, but the work is tied very closely to the industry. I've heard people at Love's are starting to be let go. It is having a huge trickle down effect, and I don't think people understand how bad the Oklahoma economy is right now. Of course oil could bounce back in a few months, but this is seriously some scary times.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Range Resources closes Oklahoma City office with loss of 100 jobs | NewsOK.com


I actually tipped them off to this in the NewsOK energy chat yesterday, but I'm glad they confirmed the number of jobs lost and other details. It's a sad deal. While I'm sure that the oil prices were the final nail in the coffin for the OKC office, from what I heard from one of Range's VPs in another region around June last year (prices were still in the $90s), this has been in the works for awhile. He didn't specifically mention closing the OKC office, but he confirmed that there would be restructuring this year and some shuffling with their offices. My coworkers and I wondered if they were considering closing the office here given that their Mid-Continent presence has dwindled recently and FTW is so close, but obviously no one would confirm that. I actually heard from someone last night that Tapstone may be acquiring some of their Mid-con acreage, but I haven't seen any assignment or press release that would confirm that.

----------


## OUGrad05

DCP is closing their OKC office as well aren't they?

----------


## BG918

> DCP is closing their OKC office as well aren't they?


Yes.  Also moving some positions in Tulsa and Midland to HQ in Denver.

----------


## OUGrad05

> Yes.  Also moving some positions in Tulsa and Midland to HQ in Denver.


Ya it's impacting a few friends of mine.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

New plan for power plant will benefit Mustang Public Schools - El Reno Tribune: News

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Continental's Harold Hamm sees brighter days coming for the oil industry | News OK

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Economic report points to slow growth in Midwest, Plains - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

----------


## gopokes88

Conoco is laying off "dozens" of employees.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Oklahoma City-based PostRock Energy to restate earnings | News OK

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Energy sector drags on first-quarter stock prices | News OK

----------


## adaniel

Some good news for a change. Loves to add more than 500 new positions at HQ over the next few years. 

Oklahoma may give five companies up to $25.6 million for job creation incentives | News OK

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Oklahoma production tax collections from oil companies lowest in 12 years | News OK

----------


## onthestrip

But wasnt lowering the gross production tax supposed to make sure oil companies are successful? Or did we give them an unnecessary break only to find out that there are bigger market forces at play when it comes to drilling? I say its the latter.

----------


## Bellaboo

> But wasnt lowering the gross production tax supposed to make sure oil companies are successful? Or did we give them an unnecessary break only to find out that there are bigger market forces at play when it comes to drilling? I say its the latter.


Didn't the tax revert from  4% to 2 %  discount ? From 4 years back to 3 ? And from horizontal to include conventional also ?

----------


## ou48A

Not lifting the US crude oil export ban is harming the Oklahoma economy.

This is Continental Resources CEO Hamm in a Video interview today explaining.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/wrong-...153852209.html

----------


## Stickman

Interesting article on fracking.  Hope this link works

Can This Oklahoma Oilman?s Company Withstand Another Earthquake? - Bloomberg Business

----------


## gopokes88

Heard Devon laid off 50 people or so.

----------


## mimino

> Not lifting the US crude oil export ban is harming the Oklahoma economy.
> 
> This is Continental Resources CEO Hamm in a Video interview today explaining.
> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/wrong-...153852209.html


Before we start talking exports, what are we going to do with imports? I've briefly read several articles on this ban lift-off as being more harmful than useful to our refineries as well. Just food for thought.

----------


## gopokes88

> Before we start talking exports, what are we going to do with imports? I've briefly read several articles on this ban lift-off as being more harmful than useful to our refineries as well. Just food for thought.


It'd help our refineries. They are more setup to handle heavy sour while the Asian refiners are setup for light sweet. Import heavy sour from opec, export light sweet.

----------


## ou48A

They may have business cycles but this article explains why Texas and many of their major city’s Including the DFW area has one of the very best business environments in the world that will continue its growth for many decades.

 “The Texan way” “ is the far more sustainable way: “….


I believe we can slowly change our economic business model in Oklahoma to be more competitive with Texas and others…. On a smaller scale Oklahoma has most of the same natural resources…. 

We too can parlay our new energy wealth in Oklahoma into greater successes in other industry’s, just like Texas is doing…We can piggy back on the successes of Texas but also capture our own new opportunity’s if we only have the courage to do the right things to make it happen.


The Importance of Texas' Oil and Natural Gas Surge - Forbes

----------


## Urbanized

Oops, wrong thread

----------


## s00nr1

Tom Ward?s Tapstone Energy Fields Interest From Suitors - WSJ

----------


## Jersey Boss

Legislature is taking away rights that municipalities have enjoyed in Oklahoma since 1935! Ask your rep if this is making life better in regards to your property values and rates for home insurance. I hope that this causes non energy companies to think twice about locating here as apparently this would be the only thing these clowns will listen to.
Oklahoma set to overturn local drilling controls as backlash brews - News - 1330 WHBL Sheboygan&#39;s News Radio
Oklahoma now sees 600 times more tremors than it did before 2008, a surge seismologists say is linked to vast amounts of wastewater injected into the ground as a result of drilling for oil and from hydraulic fracturing - a process to extract natural gas that is also known as fracking.

The bill was championed by energy companies, which contend that local interference in drilling practices would endanger the production bonanza that has boosted their profits and brought the United States within sight of energy independence.

----------


## ljbab728

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/542...s%20bankruptcy.




> Edmond-based Lonestar Geophysical Surveys has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection with total assets of $13.6 million and total debt of $13.4 million.
> 
> The company has more than 50 employees and has been in business since 2009. Lonestar shoots and collects two-dimensional and three-dimensional seismic data to help oil and natural gas companies understand the geology deep beneath Oklahoma.
> 
> CEO Heath Harris said the bankruptcy filing is not related to the recent downturn in the oil and natural gas industry led by tumbling prices. Instead, Harris said, the filing is because of an ongoing dispute with a creditor.

----------


## BG918

Apache closing Tulsa office with 160 jobs
Apache Promotes Executives, Shutting Tulsa Office - WSJ

----------


## blangtang

Its interesting to see what will happen with this for Tulsa

"Natural-gas pipeline giant Williams Cos. has rejected an unsolicited buyout offer worth $48 billion but is open to other offers, the company said Sunday."

----------


## s00nr1

$SD in freefall -- $0.83/share

----------


## OkiePoke

> Its interesting to see what will happen with this for Tulsa
> 
> "Natural-gas pipeline giant Williams Cos. has rejected an unsolicited buyout offer worth $48 billion but is open to other offers, the company said Sunday."


Rumor is they are going to come back at around $70. I have heard they have made about 3-4 offers so far.

----------


## gopokes88

> $SD in freefall -- $0.83/share


Yeah not good. Liquidity is a major problem.

----------


## Just the facts

What a piece of work.  I hope HH doesn't read OKCTalk.

Harold Hamm sues oilman for defamation over Facebook post | News OK




> Hamm claims in the lawsuit that he has suffered “damage to his reputation and standing in the community and has suffered severe mental and emotional distress,” as a result of Thompson’s Facebook post.

----------


## onthestrip

> What a piece of work.  I hope HH doesn't read OKCTalk.
> 
> Harold Hamm sues oilman for defamation over Facebook post | News OK


Mulit billionaire Harold Hamm comes across extremely petty with this lawsuit. I have no idea what Hamm is thinking in filing this suit because IMO, he is creating a negative PR situation for himself all for no reason really.

----------


## turnpup

It seems a little shaky, based upon what the article said (although I generally take newspaper articles with a grain of salt, knowing there's likely more to the story...).  Sounds very much like opinion/fair comment on a matter of public interest.  Plus, with Hamm being a public figure, his attorneys will have to show actual malice on the part of the defendant.

----------


## gopokes88

> It seems a little shaky, based upon what the article said (although I generally take newspaper articles with a grain of salt, knowing there's likely more to the story...).  Sounds very much like opinion/fair comment on a matter of public interest.  Plus, with Hamm being a public figure, his attorneys will have to show actual malice on the part of the defendant.


It super petty, but this is a man whose attorneys saved him 8 billion dollars on his divorce. They're pretty good to say the least.

----------


## Rover

Of course, this isn't about money.  What he is defending is his reputation.  Going down this path is risky on his part and he must feel confident he can prove his case.  Otherwise, by suing he is opening up a big can of worms that if they show the author is correct will damage him much deeper.  But, HH has always been a gamble.

----------


## turnpup

Nope definitely not about $$$.

----------


## Pete

Rich men and companies can break you through tons of spending on cases like this.

I'm sure the goal is to force this guy to issue a retraction, not to try to win a court ruling.

----------


## Just the facts

> Rich men and companies can break you through tons of spending on cases like this.
> 
> I'm sure the goal is to force this guy to issue a retraction, not to try to win a court ruling.


If so, that is even more shameful.

----------


## Bellaboo

> If so, that is even more shameful.


It's a worldwide reality.

----------


## Laramie

These lawsuits aren't unusual, remember superstar actor Carol Burnett's suit against the National Enquirer in 1981?




> ''If they'd given me $1 plus car fare, I'd have been happy, because it was the principle.'' ''They didn't give a darn about my rights as a human being,'' she continued. ''I didn't do a thing to The National Enquirer; they did it to themselves.''


CAROL BURNETT GIVEN $1.6 MILLION IN SUIT AGAINST NATIONAL ENQUIRER - NYTimes.com

----------


## gopokes88

CHK stock has been getting hammered by shorts recently. Good time to buy.

----------


## adaniel

Not sure what to make of this....

Chesapeake Energy selling Oklahoma assets to Denver's FourPoint Energy for $840 million - Denver Business Journal

----------


## bchris02

> Not sure what to make of this....
> 
> Chesapeake Energy selling Oklahoma assets to Denver's FourPoint Energy for $840 million - Denver Business Journal


This is kind of concerning.

Also, has SD been downgraded to "junk" stock yet?  Has their risk of bankruptcy increased or decreased in recent months?

----------


## zookeeper

> It's a worldwide reality.


So are a lot of things that are also shameful. Maybe some that we might agree on, but it being a reality doesn't stop it from being shameful.

----------


## zookeeper

> Of course, this isn't about money.  What he is defending is his reputation.  Going down this path is risky on his part and he must feel confident he can prove his case.  Otherwise, by suing he is opening up a big can of worms that if they show the author is correct will damage him much deeper.  But, HH has always been a gamble.


He knows he can wear this guy down with whatever legal team his billions can buy. The truth doesn't matter when you have access to those kinds of resources. Entitled thinking by those who own and run our country. Example - the very letter and emails and calls from Hamm. Don't they know who he is? How dare them! Wave that wallet or tell them to wave it goodbye and you can control and manipulate our republic. Just to think this city _gave him money_ to move Continental here (used to be called bribery) should disgust everyone. But, for some reason, to many here - it's just the American Way.

----------


## OkiePoke

> This is kind of concerning.
> 
> Also, has SD been downgraded to "junk" stock yet?  Has their risk of bankruptcy increased or decreased in recent months?


IMO, CHK was drilling wells and just capping them to retain the leases in this area around when Aubrey was exiting. I know they went CHEAP with these wells knowing they would likely sell them in the future. I saw was kind of products they were using on them. Now, this could be fewer than 5 wells, or closer to 50. I would guess it is closer to 5.

I'm guessing they were planning to sell those assets for a few years now.

----------


## bchris02

Does anybody think Sandridge is a good buy?  At less than $1/share, a person could really make bank if they want to take a risk.

----------


## okatty

> Does anybody think Sandridge is a good buy?  At less than $1/share, a person could really make bank if they want to take a risk.


Personally watching CHK more than SD.  Down another 5.5% today (10.55).     I'd love to see a huge trading volume day and another drop.    Who'd have thought SD under a $1 and CHK flirting with $10.

----------


## OkiePoke

I have a few alerts on for CHK. Next week might be a good time to buy. 

SD on the other hand... High Risk, High Reward... right?

----------


## mimino

Check some of the articles on SD here: SD Stock News - SandRidge Energy, Inc. Stock | Seeking Alpha (mostly read the comments section). Seems like majority of people there wouldn't touch this stock. CHK, on the other hand, might be a good play, but the bottom is nowhere in sight yet.

----------


## Just the facts

LOL - I read that first article on the link and they actually used the logic that if SD was going out business banks wouldn't have been loaning them money.  My guess is that whomever wrote that graduated college after 2007.

----------


## okatty

Oil prices off 6% today - most in 3 months.

----------


## gopokes88

> Oil prices off 6% today - most in 3 months.


A few weeks ago i posted in the oil prices thread that we were going back down and the only thing propping us up is the seasonal demand. I thought it would start to turn in the fall, but greece, china, and opec going on all in on their oversupply is a perfect sh*t storm to pummel prices.

----------


## ctchandler

I read in the DOK last week that Argentina and Iran were going to increase production, that could be having some impact on the price.
C. T.

----------


## Jersey Boss

Problems in Greece, potential for increased supply from Iran when sanctions lifted, slower growth in China, and a report last week that supplies in the USA have increased for the first time since April are all contributors.

----------


## Stickman

Is Sand Ridge really selling at 70 cents?

 :Eek:

----------


## king183

It's going to get a lot worse here, soon. With China's slowdown (they're starting to enact additional capital controls, which is a very bad sign),  the increasing strength of the dollar, and more exports flooding the global market, oil is probably going to trade in the $45-50 range for a long period, killing several Oklahoma energy jobs, slowing tax revenues, and requiring further cuts to gov't services, including education and health.

This will affect the MAPs implementation by slowing sales tax revenue, which will probably require us to pass an extender like we did with the arena. It's also going to slow or stop new developments downtown.  

I wish we would take more steps to strengthen our burgeoning and successful biotech sector, which is helping stabilize the economy as the energy sector is hurting.

----------


## gopokes88

> It's going to get a lot worse here, soon. With China's slowdown (they're starting to enact additional capital controls, which is a very bad sign),  the increasing strength of the dollar, and more exports flooding the global market, oil is probably going to trade in the $45-50 range for a long period, killing several Oklahoma energy jobs, slowing tax revenues, and requiring further cuts to gov't services, including education and health.
> 
> This will affect the MAPs implementation by slowing sales tax revenue, which will probably require us to pass an extender like we did with the arena. It's also going to slow or stop new developments downtown.  
> 
> I wish we would take more steps to strengthening our burgeoning and successful biotech sector, which is helping stabilize the economy as the energy sector is hurting.


Oklahoma's economy is actually more diverse then people here give it credit for. They mistake diversity for growth. The Oklahoma economy is fairly diverse. However, the economy only grows when oil is high. The rest of the economic sectors just provide a nice baseline but they aren't the engine of growth that oil is.

Oh and $45-50 is optimistic. We'll be below $40 by August.

----------


## bchris02

One thing with oil is momentum can change in one direction or the other very suddenly.  Some experts are still forecasting a return to $70 oil by year end.

Hopefully the worst-case scenario that king183 describes doesn't play out.

----------


## king183

> One thing with oil is momentum can change in one direction or the other very suddenly.  Some experts are still forecasting a return to $70 oil by year end.
> 
> Hopefully the worst-case scenario that king183 describes doesn't play out.


I hope they're right that it gets back to $70, but I'm doubtful of this given all the domestic and global factors working against it.  The nation's economy is weaker than a lot of people believe, due partly to slow wage growth, depressed prices, and the worst participation in the labor force since the 1960s. Global economic growth is, at best, tenuous as debt issues become increasingly prominent and governments struggle to respond with the correct measures.  

Add to this the rapidly dropping price of alternative energy like solar, development of newer storage systems like the Tesla battery system, and the future does not look good for the oil and gas industry.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> It's going to get a lot worse here, soon. With China's slowdown (they're starting to enact additional capital controls, which is a very bad sign),  the increasing strength of the dollar, and more exports flooding the global market, oil is probably going to trade in the $45-50 range for a long period, killing several Oklahoma energy jobs, slowing tax revenues, and requiring *further cuts to gov't services, including education and health.*
> 
> This will affect the MAPs implementation by slowing sales tax revenue, which will probably require us to pass an extender like we did with the arena. It's also going to slow or stop new developments downtown.  
> 
> I wish we would take more steps to strengthen our burgeoning and successful biotech sector, which is helping stabilize the economy as the energy sector is hurting.


Instead of further cuts to gov't services a cut of tax credits would be more appropriate. The legislature however has shown they have the spine of a jellyfish.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> It's going to get a lot worse here, soon. With China's slowdown (they're starting to enact additional capital controls, which is a very bad sign),  the increasing strength of the dollar, and more exports flooding the global market, oil is probably going to trade in the $45-50 range for a long period, killing several Oklahoma energy jobs, slowing tax revenues, and requiring further cuts to gov't services, including education and health.
> 
> This will affect the MAPs implementation by slowing sales tax revenue, which will probably require us to pass an extender like we did with the arena. *It's also going to slow or stop new developments downtown.  
> *
> I wish we would take more steps to strengthen our burgeoning and successful biotech sector, which is helping stabilize the economy as the energy sector is hurting.


That is what everyone thought the last time oil dropped into the $40s but there was little, if any, real slow down in DT development, and I'm unaware of any project that was cancelled due to the price decline. Hopefully that holds if things drop down into the $40s again. General sentiment is that the price will not stay down that long even if it drops again and until that sentiment changes, I doubt we see any major impact on development.

----------


## gopokes88

> I hope they're right that it gets back to $70, but I'm doubtful of this given all the domestic and global factors working against it.  The nation's economy is weaker than a lot of people believe, due partly to slow wage growth, depressed prices, and the worst participation in the labor force since the 1960s. Global economic growth is, at best, tenuous as debt issues become increasingly prominent and governments struggle to respond with the correct measures.  
> 
> Add to this the rapidly dropping price of alternative energy like solar, development of newer storage systems like the Tesla battery system, and the future does not look good for the oil and gas industry.


Tesla is like removing a drop of water from a 55 gallon drum. It's 40-50 years from making the impact the greenies wish it would. Oil demand's growth is fueled by developing nations and electric cars are still very expansive, and also require good infrastructure or they aren't feasible. Developing nations have neither, however relatively cheap crude ($40-$70) can kick their economies into over drive and they'll reach that point quicker. Cheap crude lowers input costs for manufacturers which boosts margins that boosts profit and puts upward pressure on wages and away we go. We don't feel those effects in the USA as much because our economy has advanced past being manufactured based.

----------


## bchris02

I definitely think we are decades away from electric vehicles making a dent in oil demand.  Solar energy is so inefficient right now its not even a factor.

----------


## zookeeper

> Tesla is like removing a drop of water from a 55 gallon drum. *It's 40-50 years from making the impact the greenies wish it would.* Oil demand's growth is fueled by developing nations and electric cars are still very expansive, and also require good infrastructure or they aren't feasible. Developing nations have neither, however relatively cheap crude ($40-$70) can kick their economies into over drive and they'll reach that point quicker. Cheap crude lowers input costs for manufacturers which boosts margins that boosts profit and puts upward pressure on wages and away we go. *We don't feel those effects in the USA as much because our economy has advanced past being manufactured based.*


"Greenies"? ? ? As opposed to the those who see the evidence right in front of them, deny it,  and want to continue to make on earth a living HELL?

And, please...we have _"advanced"_ past being manufacturing based? Yes, we "advanced" ourselves right into a nation of service jobs and wage deflation. (First time since the twenties and thirties.) Seriously, where did you study economics? It had to be one of several state universities in one of the southern conservative states. Your economic views are tired, worn out, disproven, embarrassing, and half the time - outright falsehoods.

----------


## bchris02

> "Greenies"? ? ? As opposed to the those who see the evidence right in front of them, deny it,  and want to continue to make on earth a living HELL?


He does have a valid point.  Alternative energy and electric cars are currently a niche market.   It's not enough to make a serious dent in fossil fuel demand.

----------


## zookeeper

> He does have a valid point.  Alternative energy and electric cars are currently a niche market.   It's not enough to make a serious dent in fossil fuel demand.


bcrhris, I wasn't even referencing the demand part of his/her sentence. The "greenie" term is considered a pejorative when used in this fashion. GoPokes is all-in on continuing the the fossil fuels train that is soon to derail the entire planet.

Also, change of huge magnitudes can happen in an instant. People in 1990 would never dream of what we do on the internet now. It changed everything in just 20 years or so. To think we'll have to wait 40-50 years for something to replace fossil fuels is a dire prediction. It will be something that comes from nowhere and changes the game very quickly. Technology leaps are happening exponentially now. What used to take ten years can now be accomplished in one year. Research is being democratized with startup foundries in all the cutting edge industries.. You can't put a price on the fact that intelligent people with great ideas can today find funding to begin research. Or, the bolt from the blue could come from a Google or Apple that could put fossil fuels in the dust bin in the blink of an eye. Some may laugh, but it will happen as history has shown us time and time again that these huge changes can take place very quickly.

----------


## bchris02

> bcrhris, I wasn't even referencing the demand part of his/her sentence. The "greenie" term is considered a pejorative when used in this fashion. GoPokes is all-in on continuing the the fossil fuels train that is soon to derail the entire planet.


Yeah, I do agree with that.

----------


## bradh

> bcrhris, I wasn't even referencing the demand part of his/her sentence. The "greenie" term is considered a pejorative when used in this fashion. GoPokes is all-in on continuing the the fossil fuels train that is soon to derail the entire planet.


Drama queen much?

Our energy policy should be all encompassing, even if the electric car was reasonable tomorrow, what are you making the tires and plastics on the car from?  Oil isn't going away no matter how much you want it to.

----------


## jn1780

Oil, along with the rest of the commodities  is going to stay low for a long time with China crashing hard. No telling what the fallout from Greece will be either.

----------


## OkiePoke

Today will tell a lot about what the price for oil will do in the next 4 months. I don't think it will be going up. Hopefully it doesn't drop below $45.

----------


## bradh

Yeah it's not going to be good, but hey, all the more reason for zookeeper to celebrate, right?

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Yeah it's not going to be good, but hey, all the more reason for zookeeper to celebrate, right?


Not sure why. Anyone who wants renewables to be adopted soon should be cheering for high oil and gas prices. The lower the cost of oil and gas, the more difficult it will be for people to justify switching to more expensive/less efficient alternatives like all renewable sources right now. Lower oil and gas prices will force the cost to produce renewable resources to be even lower than now to be competitive. That's the major rub with all renewables right now, even after 30 years of developement, they are still way too inefficient and expensive to be widely accepted. I think that will change over the next 20-30 years but the horizontal drilling and the shale revolution have without a doubt made it more difficult for those pushing renewables in the near term. On the positive side, the shale boom has provided a ton of natural gas to use as a cheap bridge fuel to close the gap.

----------


## Just the facts

Much bigger than the impact of electric cars is the high number of people who are not driving any car.  Mass transit usage is at record highs and will only go up as more systems and routes come on-line and as more cities reurbanize.

People in the oil industry don't want to hear it but they are operating in a dying industry that is about 1 generation away from extinction.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Much bigger than the impact of electric cars is the high number of people who are not driving any car.  Mass transit usage is at record highs and will only go up as more systems and routes come on-line and as more cities reurbanize.
> 
> People in the oil industry don't want to hear it but they are operating in a dying industry that is about 1 generation away from extinction.


I agree to a point, but the statement that it will be "extinct" in one generation is pretty shortsighted, or at least made with ignorance as to what is happening throughout the rest of the world. I would say that it's more like 2 generations from being reduced from its current form. You will still need fuel to power mass transit and I still don't think renewables will be responsible for a sizable portion of our energy mix for at least 30 years. As others have mentioned, generating energy is not the only use for oil and gas. It would take a complete switch from non-renewables to renewables for transportation and power generation (which again, will not happen until it is economically feasible) and a completely synthetic alternative to every other product created by oil and gas. Also, just because we use less oil and gas, doesn't mean developing nations including China and India are going to do the same. 

Also, while I agree that mass transit is becoming and will continue to become more popular, I think autonomous cars will eventually make up part of that mix and will serve people that want to live in suburbs. If/when that happens on a large scale and what they are powered by...I have no idea, but I would almost guarantee that they will be part of the transportation mix. 

In general I agree with a lot of your thoughts on the demographic shifts from the suburbs to urban centers but I don't think it will be nearly as dramatic or fast as you do.

----------


## gopokes88

> bcrhris, I wasn't even referencing the demand part of his/her sentence. The "greenie" term is considered a pejorative when used in this fashion. GoPokes is all-in on continuing the the fossil fuels train that is soon to derail the entire planet.
> 
> Also, change of huge magnitudes can happen in an instant. People in 1990 would never dream of what we do on the internet now. It changed everything in just 20 years or so. To think we'll have to wait 40-50 years for something to replace fossil fuels is a dire prediction. It will be something that comes from nowhere and changes the game very quickly. Technology leaps are happening exponentially now. What used to take ten years can now be accomplished in one year. Research is being democratized with startup foundries in all the cutting edge industries.. You can't put a price on the fact that intelligent people with great ideas can today find funding to begin research. Or, the bolt from the blue could come from a Google or Apple that could put fossil fuels in the dust bin in the blink of an eye. Some may laugh, but it will happen as history has shown us time and time again that these huge changes can take place very quickly.


No it's used as an umbrella term for people who think electric cars are going to wipe out fossil fuels and reduce our demand for crude by any substantial amount. Everything is a crude product. 

Oh and please, point to one, just one economy in the entire world that hasn't progressed on this path. I'll argue with facts and you can argue about how we screwed ourselves. Progressives piss and moan about the loss of American manufacturing but it's simple economics. When workers become too expensive the company moves to cheaper workers. Since American workers won't accept lower wage jobs the jobs leave. Which is fine there's plenty of other jobs available. That's why when the recession hit American manufacturing rebounded in a big way. There wasn't a better job available. 

Agricultural based leads to manufacturing based which leads to service based. We aren't sure what phase 4 is yet. There's even been a Ted talk about it.

Its like people want the jobs of the 50s, the free love of the 60s, the music of the 70s-80s, the economic growth of the 90s and the technology of the 2000s, but that simply isn't going to happen.

----------


## gopokes88

People don't really seem to grasp that almost everything in today's society is crude based. It's not just gasoline.

----------


## Just the facts

Extinct might be a bit much, but demand for crude oil will be greatly reduced.  Those counting on China to spur future demand will be sadly disappointed.

----------


## zookeeper

> No it's used as an umbrella term for people who think electric cars are going to wipe out fossil fuels and reduce our demand for crude by any substantial amount. Everything is a crude product. 
> 
> Oh and please, point to one, just one economy in the entire world that hasn't progressed on this path. I'll argue with facts and you can argue about how we screwed ourselves. *Progressives piss and moan about the loss of American manufacturing but it's simple economics. When workers become too expensive the company moves to cheaper workers. Since American workers won't accept lower wage jobs the jobs leave. Which is fine there's plenty of other jobs available.* That's why when the recession hit American manufacturing rebounded in a big way. There wasn't a better job available. 
> 
> Agricultural based leads to manufacturing based which leads to service based. We aren't sure what phase 4 is yet. There's even been a Ted talk about it.
> 
> Its like people want the jobs of the 50s, the free love of the 60s, the music of the 70s-80s, the economic growth of the 90s and the technology of the 2000s, but that simply isn't going to happen.


*Revisionist history.*

Let's start with this one - please, tell us about all the jobs with comparable wages that have replaced the manufacturing jobs.

_"Since Americans won't accept lower paid jobs."_   Yes, it's strange how rightwing economics insist the masses of workers accept low wages. The problem is that the masses have this problem of a need to eat, pay for housing, and believe it or not appreciate air conditioning, too. 

For your age, you seem to think you have this all figured out when - in fact - you are wrong almost all of the time. 

By the way, I can find a TedTalk saying just about anything.

Edit: I forgot to answer your question about the one country that hasn't followed your "advancement theory" past manufacturing. 
How about we start with one of the most powerful economies in the world: *Germany*.

----------


## Just the facts

> When workers become too expensive the company moves to cheaper workers.


My observation is that companies move to cheaper workers, not because of the current workers becoming too expensive, but in a constant attempt to produce temporary returns for investors.

----------


## jn1780

Greece looks like it will cave this week, but China is in full blown crash mode.  It seems unlikely that a Greece resolution is going to magically restore confidence to Chinese investors.

----------


## bradh

> Edit: I forgot to answer your question about the one country that hasn't followed your "advancement theory" past manufacturing. 
> How about we start with one of the most powerful economies in the world: *Germany*.


That article even states that there is lower skilled work that is outsourced from Germany.  It's not like manufacturing is totally absent from the US, there is still plenty made here.

----------


## Just the facts

> That article even states that there is lower skilled work that is outsourced from Germany.  It's not like manufacturing is totally absent from the US, there is still plenty made here.


There is a lot of stuff made in the US, they just don't use a lot of people to make it - and that is a serious problem.  Watch "How It's Made" and it is shocking how few humans are involved in manufacturing.

----------


## OkiePoke

China's market is looking pretty bad. The government is promising to buy stocks right now. 80% of the stocks in China are held by individuals. Even Hong Kong is feeling the downward pull; they are not as insulated as one might have thought.

----------


## bradh

> There is a lot of stuff made in the US, they just don't use a lot of people to make it - and that is a serious problem.  Watch "How It's Made" and it is shocking how few humans are involved in manufacturing.


Yeah, damn innovation.  We bitch and moan about our students struggling in science and engineering, but when they come up with cool stuff that automates things and takes Joe Public's job, well we just need to go back to the stone ages I guess.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Much bigger than the impact of electric cars is the high number of people who are not driving any car.  Mass transit usage is at record highs and will only go up as more systems and routes come on-line and as more cities reurbanize.
> 
> People in the oil industry don't want to hear it but they are operating in a dying industry that is about 1 generation away from extinction.


I don't know Kerry. This TIME article seems to indicate otherwise as to what the millennial generation is trending towards. Regardless it will remain to be seen if the youngsters emulate their parents in ownership versus renting.

Millennials Do Want To Own Cars
_Some 71% of young adults would rather buy a car than lease one and 43% are likely to purchase a vehicle in the next five years, according to a survey from Elite Daily, a social site, and research consultants Millennial Branding_

----------


## bchris02

I know after the financial pickle my last car purchase buried me in, I will never again buy a brand new car.

----------


## Just the facts

Only 43% plan to buy a car in the next 5 years?  20 years ago it was 100%.  Wonder what the other 57% plan to do.  Also, many in that 43% won't be able to afford a car even if they do want one.  Auto loans now go out 8 years.

----------


## Just the facts

> I know after the financial pickle my last car purchase buried me in, I will never again buy a brand new car.


I already own my last car.  If I do end up buying another one it will be a novelty car (1927 Bugatti Type 35B replica) .

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Only 43% plan to buy a car in the next 5 years?  20 years ago it was 100%.  Wonder what the other 57% plan to do.  Also, many in that 43% won't be able to afford a car even if they do want one.  Auto loans now go out 8 years.


A significant % of the other 57% already have a car that will get them through the next 5 years?  I just bought a new car after having my most recent new one for 10 years. That 10 year old one will be going to the kiddo when she hits the ivy tower this fall.  I would have been in the 57% for a considerable amount of those previous ten years.

----------


## Just the facts

These are millennial; they aren't old enough to own a car 10 years yet, and they still haven't solved the "affordability" problem.

Anyhow, we strayed from the topic.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> These are millennial; they aren't old enough to own a car 10 years yet, and they still haven't solved the "affordability" problem.
> 
> Anyhow, we strayed from the topic.


Sure they are, if I had kept my first car until today, I would've had it for 12 years. People born in the mid-80s are considered millennials.

----------


## mkjeeves

> I know after the financial pickle my last car purchase buried me in, I will never again buy a brand new car.


Sounds strangely like the reason I swore off buying used cars. The word bath is probably more appropriate than pickle though.

----------


## blangtang

> No it's used as an umbrella term for people who think electric cars are going to wipe out fossil fuels and reduce our demand for crude by any substantial amount. *Everything is a crude product. 
> *
> Oh and please, point to one, just one economy in the entire world that hasn't progressed on this path. I'll argue with facts and you can argue about how we screwed ourselves. Progressives piss and moan about the loss of American manufacturing but it's simple economics. When workers become too expensive the company moves to cheaper workers. Since American workers won't accept lower wage jobs the jobs leave. Which is fine there's plenty of other jobs available. That's why when the recession hit American manufacturing rebounded in a big way. There wasn't a better job available. 
> 
> Agricultural based leads to manufacturing based which leads to service based. We aren't sure what phase 4 is yet. There's even been a Ted talk about it.
> 
> Its like people want the jobs of the 50s, the free love of the 60s, the music of the 70s-80s, the economic growth of the 90s and the technology of the 2000s, but that simply isn't going to happen.


A ridiculous claim.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> A ridiculous claim.


Saying that "everything" is crude product is obviously a stretch, but the claim isn't that ridiculous. Many, many everyday products are made from crude oil or natural gas.

----------


## mkjeeves

Another perspective of the same:




> In the United States 71 percent of the petroleum products consumed are used in transportation. 
> 
> Only 5 percent of all oil is used to produce petrochemicals--chemicals which form the basis for the almost miraculous materials and substances that we now take for granted.


Oil is too Precious to be Used as Transportation Fuel | OilPrice.com

As a friend of mine often reflects, it's so cheap and plentiful we burn it for fuel. That will change and we'll find other options for the big issues. Either incrementally,




> In 2013, 14.8 percent of the electricity generated in Oklahoma came from wind-power


or like Zookeeper says with sweeping new technology, or a combination of both.

----------


## Just the facts

And that 5% is used to make plastic stuff that breaks all the time.  It wasn't very long ago that things were made from metal, wood, or cotton, and would last for generations.

I'll also add that those things were made locally. Historically, raw materials were shipped, not finished products.

----------


## bradh

> And that 5% is used to make plastic stuff that breaks all the time.  It wasn't very long that things were made from metal, wood, or cotton, and would last for generations.


You just need to find a time machine, I didn't think you were old enough to gripe about "the good ol days" like grandpa does.  (not that I don't agree with you re: shoddy plastic construction).

----------


## dankrutka

> Yeah, damn innovation.  We bitch and moan about our students struggling in science and engineering, but when they come up with cool stuff that automates things and takes Joe Public's job, well we just need to go back to the stone ages I guess.


Player Piano by Kurt Vonnegut

----------


## bradh

> Player Piano by Kurt Vonnegut


Interesting, always loved Vonnegut's works when I read them in HS.  Didn't read this one.

----------


## jccouger

> And that 5% is used to make plastic stuff that breaks all the time.  *It wasn't very long ago that things were made from metal, wood, or cotton*, and would last for generations.
> 
> I'll also add that those things were made locally. Historically, raw materials were shipped, not finished products.


As you type this reply from your computer/tablet/phone

----------


## Just the facts

I don't get your point?  Can you explain the relationship between my phone and using 71% of oil for transportation?  Also, if someone made an android metal phone I would have one.

----------


## Rover

> And that 5% is used to make plastic stuff that breaks all the time.  It wasn't very long ago that things were made from metal, wood, or cotton, and would last for generations.
> 
> I'll also add that those things were made locally. Historically, raw materials were shipped, not finished products.


Ah, the good ole days.  When horses were the main form of transport (even though even THEY produced gas), and we could shoot our own food, hand dig our water wells and drop the bucket down for good clean water, and we could die of simple diseases but not of car accidents, and it took a month to get to Europe, and we didn't have to worry about all the atrocities around the world because communications was so non existant we could all claim ignorance....and....and.    Let's go back to the good ole days.  Oh yea...before the internet and internet geniuses (myself included)

And before computers and coding....guess some people would have to find a different way to make a living.

----------


## Laramie

When you pay off your current vehicle, hang on to it for as long as you can; continue to set aside that amount,  save that money toward your next automobile purchase.  

You'd be surprised how much a 'cash purchase' you can save on your next vehicle purchase; also, the bargaining chip you can use with dealerships when flashing cash.

----------


## OkiePoke

> When you pay off your current vehicle, hang on to it for as long as you can; continue to set aside that amount,  save that money toward your next automobile purchase.  
> 
> You'd be surprised how much a 'cash purchase' you can save on your next vehicle purchase; also, the bargaining chip you can use with dealerships when flashing cash.


I have heard it is a good strategy (one of many) to act like you are going to finance w/ the dealership to get a better price on the car. FOH(sales) takes a hit, but they make it back up in BOH (financing). Then, after a price is agreed, pull out the cashiers check.

----------


## Just the facts

The dealer doesn't care about cash from the buyer unless you are buying from a buy here pay here place.  When you take out a loan the bank pays the dealer in full, you pay back the bank.

----------


## okatty

Actually dealers make money on their finace reserve - they sell off the paper and are paid.  Deals very but essentiall just like a mortgage company which originates the loan and sells off into the secondary market.     Dealership can make as much as 2% on the deal depending on lots of factors.   Buy rate versus the call rate.

----------


## Of Sound Mind

What does any of this have to do with "Oklahoma business energy news"?

----------


## OkiePoke

> What does any of this have to do with "Oklahoma business energy news"?


I have no idea.

----------


## C_M_25

Oil and gas isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but it isn't a resource that will provide energy to the people of this planet for centuries to come. Something will eventually have to step up and take its place, but the question is what? Nuclear? Not likely. While it is a safe way to create energy, the waste is extremely difficult to handle. Just look up the nuclear waste facility in the pacific northwest. That place is a disaster waiting to happen as there are several tanks below ground that are at risk of leaking because of the extreme heat associated with degrading nuclear waste.

What about coal? Most of the good "clean" coal has been mined. Most of what is left has higher sulfur concentrations which create significant amounts of pollution.

Fusion? This is probably the best energy source for the continuation of our species. It has a long way to go, however. There have been many proposals for the technology, and I believe there is a plant currently under construction. Unfortunately,  there hasn't been a  breakthrough to get us to a significant net positive gain of energy. I think they may have gotten more energy than put it, but it was minimal. That technology, while getting better, is a ways off still.

Renewables?  These are growing in popularity, but energy storage remains a problem. This is a very region specific source too. Wind energy is great for the plains, but moving that energy to either coast is a problem. Solar is a good source, but again, energy storage is an issue. The one thing people tend to forget with these technologies is that they all require rare earth minerals which are a finite resource (hence the name). The mines for rare earth are quite nasty and large, and that is a piece to some of the renewable energy techniques that isn't discussed much. Finally, the footprint required to create significant amounts of energy from renewables is also quite large.

At the end of the day, we need to combine what is available to us to be as efficient as possible. Homes need solar panels on the roofs, power plants need to be converted to natural gas, wind turbines need to be used where possible (the great plains). Quit using asphalt on roads. More funding for fusion research, and the list goes on. Finally, we are ultimately going to have to leave our planet at some point as we will exhaust our natural resources. Either that, or our species will eventually fade away from lack of resources. SO, space exploration technological research should also not be forgotten (sorry, had to get that in there  :Smile: )

So, to stay on topic, our oil and gas industry likely isn't going anwhere anytime soon, but it will probably start to get smaller over the next 50 years or so.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^^
All good points and I don't disagree, but as is typical of these discussions the one part of the solution that is completely ignored is better city planning. As the nation's (and the planet's) population becomes more city-based, we need to plan our cities in ways that reduce the number of trips (and miles) required in automobiles.

Better city planning, sprawl reduction and sprawl repair could make a massive dent on our energy requirements (and resulting carbon emissions), and the knowledge and technology to do this exists TODAY, not somewhere in the future. Yet this rarely if ever makes it into conversations or policy relative to energy consumption and conservation. It is an extreme disconnect. We keep searching for a magic bullet, but one designed to treat the symptoms rather than the disease.

----------


## gopokes88

> ^^^^^^^
> All good points and I don't disagree, but as is typical of these discussions the one part of the solution that is completely ignored is better city planning. As the nation's (and the planet's) population becomes more city-based, we need to plan our cities in ways that reduce the number of trips (and miles) required in automobiles.
> 
> Better city planning, sprawl reduction and sprawl repair could make a massive dent on our energy requirements (and resulting carbon emissions), and the knowledge and technology to do this exists TODAY, not somewhere in the future. Yet this rarely if ever makes it into conversations or policy relative to energy consumption and conservation. It is an extreme disconnect. We keep searching for a magic bullet, but one designed to treat the symptoms rather than the disease.


I don't necessarily disagree but this view underestimates technological advancement. 

A fully self driving car that is interlinked into the city grid. Because no one is driving the traffic is automated and reduces traffic congestion, take away the human element and traffic likely flows a lot faster. The car can see that NW expressway handles 5,000 cars per minute, checks the NW expressway traffic monitoring and reroutes to a road that is less congested and thus faster. All while the passenger rides and works in the back seat of a hydrogen car that emits water out of the tailpipe. 

So while one side is going to plan to make cities less car dependent, the flip side of the coin is planning to make traffic flow like fully automated symphony.  

If you don't think that's possible in the next 25-50 years. Try and think about explaining the ability of an iphone to someone 50 years ago. I have in my hand a device that is a calculator, tv, radio, record, map, phone, mail, advanced atari, and has the ability to access almost all of human history it fits comfortably in my pocket and just about everyone in America has enough money to afford one. They wouldn't believe. We have had no indication that technology won't create something in the next 50 years that people today would say impossible. (my bet is we can't imagine the power 3D printers have)

----------


## Just the facts

Nm

----------


## Just the facts

So lets say the self driving car does become mainstream.  They still use gasoline.  If they do alleviate traffic that will just generate more, and longer, trips - which will require even more oil and more road maintenance. 

The future is energy avoidance.

----------


## king183

> So lets say the self driving car does become mainstream.  They still use gasoline.  If they do alleviate traffic that will just generate more, and longer, trips - which will require even more oil and more road maintenance. 
> 
> The future is energy avoidance.


I don't know why you assume a self driving car, at the point in time in which it is mainstream, still uses gasoline.

----------


## Anonymous.

If you have some time to kill, skip around this video and have a listen. It is pretty clear OKC's HH is the leader of this movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCO5MqDZmWo

EDIT: I have no idea why it is linking to the middle of the meeting.

----------


## C_M_25

[QUOTE=The future is energy avoidance.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but I couldn't disagree with this more. Our society is where it is because of energy. To sustain our lifestyles and to continue to advance as a civilization, we will need energy. 

If we do, as you say, and avoid energy, we would have no electricity, no transportation, no farming, no mining, etc etc. There will be a complete breakdown of society and the cities would destroy themselves from the inside out. Wars will break out (so long as there is any remaining energy), and eventually, the population would stabilize and those remaining would live a nomad lifestyle. That sounds pretty horrible. Sorry, but I want to see humanity advance and become all we can be. 

Now, humanity needs to become as efficient as possible. As I said, combine our energy resource in the most efficient manner, and make a concerted effort to research new technologies.

Edit - I may have mis-interpreted what you meant with your statement. If so, I would be curious to know what you meant.

----------


## PhiAlpha

It looks like we may be loosing an energy company to Tulsa. WPX agreed to buy RKI Exploration for their Permian assets and RKI plans to divest their Wyoming assets before the sale is finalized.

WPX Energy enters oil-rich Permian basin with $2.35 billion buy | Reuters

----------


## TU 'cane

I see this as nothing but good news for Oklahoma: 





> Natural gas tops coal as top source of electricity in US
> Morgan Brennan	| @MorganLBrennan
> 6 Hours Ago
> 
> Call it a one-two punch against coal. As global demand for U.S. coal exports continues to sag, domestic demand at power plants has been sliding as well.
> 
> For the first time ever, natural gas trumped coal as the top source of electric power generation in the U.S. In April, roughly 31 percent of electric power generation came from natural gas, whereas coal accounted for 30 percent, according to a recent SNL Energy report.
> 
> It's a dramatic difference from April 2010, when coal accounted for 44 percent of the mix and natural gas just 22 percent.
> ...


Natural gas tops coal as top source of electric power generation in US

----------


## Just the facts

> I'm sorry, but I couldn't disagree with this more. Our society is where it is because of energy. To sustain our lifestyles and to continue to advance as a civiliyzation, we will need energy. 
> 
> If we do, as you say, and avoid energy, we would have no electricity, no transportation, no farming, no mining, etc etc. There will be a complete breakdown of society and the cities would destroy themselves from the inside out. Wars will break out (so long as there is any remaining energy), and eventually, the population would stabilize and those remaining would live a nomad lifestyle. That sounds pretty horrible. Sorry, but I want to see humanity advance and become all we can be. 
> 
> Now, humanity needs to become as efficient as possible. As I said, combine our energy resource in the most efficient manner, and make a concerted effort to research new technologies.
> 
> Edit - I may have mis-interpreted what you meant with your statement. If so, I would be curious to know what you meant.


There are a lot of items to discuss in this post and when I get access to a keyboard I'll go through each one.  For now I will leave you with this, I said energy avoidance, not energy abstinence.

----------


## C_M_25

Obviously, my post went down the "worst-case scenario" path. I'll be curious to hear what you have to say.

----------


## zookeeper

> _ (Everything he or she has said in the last few megaposts.)_


I couldn't *disagree* more. Interesting post with a lot of "worst case scenario" type events (as you said). Remember, the continued cheerleading for fossil fuels seems to ignore the "worst case scenarios" that 97% of scientists say is inevitable (see 2nd link below). Some are quietly saying it's too late. So, yes, I can imagine all those things in your post *and more* if we - as a planet - don't put the brakes on. And at this point, in emergency-like fashion.
Have We Passed the Point of No Return on Climate Change? - Scientific American

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

----------


## C_M_25

> I couldn't *disagree* more. Interesting post with a lot of "worst case scenario" type events (as you said). Remember, the continued cheerleading for fossil fuels seems to ignore the "worst case scenarios" that 97% of scientists say is inevitable (see 2nd link below). Some are quietly saying it's too late. So, yes, I can imagine all those things in your post *and more* if we - as a planet - don't put the brakes on. And at this point, in emergency-like fashion.
> Have We Passed the Point of No Return on Climate Change? - Scientific American
> 
> http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/


There are consequences to "putting the brakes on" as you say. What are we going to replace the energy-void left behind if you stop using nat. gas to generate electricity and oil to generate fuel that supports our very lifestyle?

The problem is that there are no good solutions to our energy problem except for maybe fusion. Every method we have to generate power will have a significant impact on our environment.

----------


## Just the facts

So as to not bore the rest of the OKCTalk community (and not derail yet another thread) I have decided to rethink my response.  If C_M_25 thinks we are living in the golden age of America and we owe it all to oil, who am I to argue.

http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic...m-library.html

----------


## C_M_25

> So as to not bore the rest of the OKCTalk community (and not derail yet another thread) I have decided to rethink my response.  If C_M_25 thinks we are living in the golden age of America and we owe it all to oil, who am I to argue.
> 
> http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic...m-library.html


I never said we are in the golden age because of oil and gas. I'm simply bringing up the issues with other energy sources and how there is no perfect source of energy except for maybe one.

----------


## Rover

> So as to not bore the rest of the OKCTalk community (and not derail yet another thread) I have decided to rethink my response.  If C_M_25 thinks we are living in the golden age of America and we owe it all to oil, who am I to argue.
> 
> http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic...m-library.html


Golden age or no hope...those are the only two possibilities?  Agree to extreme points or go into a corner...those are the two possibilities?

----------


## ljbab728

This is obviously huge news in Tulsa.

Report: ETE could purchase Williams Cos. within two weeks - Tulsa World: Energy

----------


## zookeeper

> This is obviously huge news in Tulsa.
> 
> Report: ETE could purchase Williams Cos. within two weeks - Tulsa World: Energy


Wow. That would be a stunner.

----------


## mimino

Would be interesting to see what happens to WPZ (limited P) aka  CHK mid aka Access P.

----------


## gopokes88

Kimray offering buyouts to all 700 employees. Sucks, but it is a pretty humane way of laying people off. 
Kimray offers buyouts to all 700 employees | NewsOK.com

----------


## okatty

^ That's rough.   Have dealings with a number of oil service providers in West Okla and similar situation (just on smaller scale).   Several have laid off employees in the past 2-3 weeks.

----------


## BG918

> Would be interesting to see what happens to WPZ (limited P) aka  CHK mid aka Access P.


So what happens to WPZ in this scenario?



> [Barron’s] Williams Partners L.P. (NYSE:WPZ)(TREND ANALYSIS) Reuters is reporting Wednesday that sources say the process could conclude as soon as the end of next week and that ETE has sweetened its all-stock offer by agreeing to pay about 15% in cash. Bloomberg reported last week that ETE was the likely victor in the bidding war.
> 
> Williams shares were down 4% to $42.65 on Wednesday as crude oil prices fell by about that amount.
> 
> In June, Energy Transfer Equity made a $48 billion all-stock bid for Williams (now worth about $34 billion). Williams rejected the offer, partly because that deal was contingent on Williams abandoning a plan to fold in its master limited partnership, Williams Partners (WPZ).
> 
> Williams said then that it would explore alternatives as part of a strategic review, effectively launching a bidding war. Competing bids were due by the end of August, but ETE seems to be the only active negotiator currently.

----------


## bchris02

Tulsa based Williams Companies sold to Houston company | www.krmg.com

----------


## GoThunder

> Tulsa based Williams Companies sold to Houston company | www.krmg.com


I wonder how this bodes for Tulsa.  Will ETE move many jobs from there?

----------


## HangryHippo

Not that it really matters, but I thought ETE was a Dallas company?

----------


## BG918

> I wonder how this bodes for Tulsa.  Will ETE move many jobs from there?


I'm sure some jobs will move to the Dallas HQ but ETE (at least for now) says they plan on keeping the Tulsa operations intact.  Probably similar to what happened when WPZ bought Access Midstream and still maintained and even grew the OKC office despite having the HQ in Tulsa.  Williams Partners (WPZ) is not part of the merger and will stay HQ'd in Tulsa.

----------


## OkiePoke

Why did they settle on a lower amount than the initial offer?

----------


## adaniel

Given how wobbly midstream companies are right now this is probably a net positive for Tulsa. It gives Williams Cos. needed stability and allows Williams Partners to be a standalone company now with the HQ up there. 

It does suck that they have lost another HQ, especially in light of what's happening with Samson and Hilti, but this seems like its only a move on paper.

----------


## BG918

> It does suck that they have lost another HQ, especially in light of what's happening with Samson and Hilti, but this seems like its only a move on paper.


Yeah it's been a rough few years with those companies and also Dollar Thrifty getting bought by Hertz and Flintco being bought by Alberici, though their Tulsa (and OKC) operations stayed mostly intact.  On the energy front the Midstates HQ move from Houston and having homegrown NGL Energy crack the Fortune 500 have been recent positives.  But losing a Fortune 500 HQ that has been in Tulsa forever, even if mostly on paper, is sad to see even if the combined company is much stronger.

----------


## Bellaboo

> Yeah it's been a rough few years with those companies and also Dollar Thrifty getting bought by Hertz and Flintco being bought by Alberici, though their Tulsa (and OKC) operations stayed mostly intact.  On the energy front the Midstates HQ move from Houston and having homegrown NGL Energy crack the Fortune 500 have been recent positives.  But losing a Fortune 500 HQ that has been in Tulsa forever, even if mostly on paper, is sad to see even if the combined company is much stronger.


As it turns out Hertz relocated quite a few DTG people from Tulsa to OKC. My wife's department picked up 3.

----------


## gopokes88

Lots of chatter about layoffs at CHK tomorrow or a week from tomorrow

----------


## Bellaboo

> Lots of chatter about layoffs at CHK tomorrow or a week from tomorrow


We had heard that it was going to be the Friday after Labor Day. This much noise there's probably some substance.

----------


## Dustin

> Tulsa based Williams Companies sold to Houston company | www.krmg.com


So they've just combined...  I have no idea how any of this works, but it looks like operations are staying in Tulsa for the foreseeable future?

----------


## C_M_25

I keep hearing a lot of chatter about chk layoffs tomorrow too. Something like 1500 people potentially. That is a lot of people. I really hope that is just not true. I wonder what other industries in okc are hiring right now?

On another note, 2016 could be an interesting year. Lots of potential for M&A around here...

----------


## rte66man

> I'm sure some jobs will move to the Dallas HQ but ETE (at least for now) says they plan on keeping the Tulsa operations intact.  Probably similar to what happened when WPZ bought Access Midstream and still maintained and even grew the OKC office despite having the HQ in Tulsa.  Williams Partners (WPZ) is not part of the merger and will stay HQ'd in Tulsa.


Grew the OKC office?? How so?  

Also, WPZ is directly affected by the merger as they will have a new General Partner calling the shots.  Saying they will keep a presence in Tulsa is just PR.  The head count will definitely go down, just as the Access head count has gone down in OKC.

----------


## BG918

> Grew the OKC office?? How so?.


I don't have any inside knowledge but assumed they were stable based on this quote from Pete in another thread:



> Williams just filed for a building permit to renovate some offices in the Central Park complex where Access is located.
> 
> Looks like they are staying put and expanding.


Who knows with the industry so volatile right now.  ETE has kept sizable operations in Houston and Philadelphia with their buyouts of Southern Resources and Sunoco, respectively.  A sizable ETE/Williams operation in a midstream hub like Tulsa would make sense.

----------


## gopokes88

12 VPs at CHK are out so far

----------


## sooner88

> 12 VPs at CHK are out so far


Word from friends there is this is just the tip of the iceberg today.

----------


## gopokes88

> Word from friends there is this is just the tip of the iceberg today.


700 in okc, 1300-1500 company wide is what I'm hearing.

----------


## dcsooner

> 700 in okc, 1300-1500 company wide is what I'm hearing.


OKC and Oklahoma should brace for population stagnation related to what appears to be a significant economic downturn as Oil runs the State with little ability to absorb these numbers of highly educated Petroleum engineering types

----------


## PhiAlpha

> OKC and Oklahoma should brace for population stagnation related to what appears to be a significant economic downturn as Oil runs the State with little ability to absorb these numbers of highly educated Petroleum engineering types


Thanks nostradamus, should we prepare for the apocalypse too?

----------


## bchris02

> OKC and Oklahoma should brace for population stagnation related to what appears to be a significant economic downturn as Oil runs the State with little ability to absorb these numbers of highly educated Petroleum engineering types


This is definitely going to hurt, but I think you are overplaying it a little bit.

----------


## jn1780

Look on the bright side, with the world economy collapsing slowly, but surely, the FED will have to do more quantitative easing as early as the end of the year. It was great for oil prices the first couple of times they did it.

----------


## gopokes88

They've been predicting a collapse in the world economy for generations.

----------


## jn1780

> They've been predicting a collapse in the world economy for generations.


Which it has. Several times.  But, your the one who wants to redefine collapse into something apocalyptic.  Its going to take a long time for all this debt to clear and the world to start growing again economically.   But anyway, that the FED will try do anything to jump start ecomomic growth is an easy prediction, just like the FED not raising rates this month was an easy prediction. Its the new "normal".

----------


## gopokes88

> Which it has. Several times.  But, your the one who wants to redefine collapse into something apocalyptic.  Its going to take a long time for all this debt to clear and the world to start growing again economically.   But anyway, that the FED will try do anything to jump start ecomomic growth is an easy prediction, just like the FED not raising rates this month was an easy prediction. Its the new "normal".



Ugh. Collapse is very different then recession or depression. Collapse implies a complete failure of everything. 

Also you do realize that assets = liabilities + stockholder equity? Yeah please say you do. In other words all the debt is on one side of the balance sheet the other side is the exact same amount of assets. Hence why they equal each other. 

I'm tired of the constant the world is failing attitude on this board. Oh okc isn't an urban utopia and we're tearing an old bus station, the government has a shortfall this year, the whole world economy is going to collapse. It's so whiny, annoying, and hopeless. What's dumb about it none of those are going to be that bad. Everyone just wants to panic or be dramatic. When really, they'll be some pain but people will move on and get back on their feet.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Ugh. Collapse is very different then recession or depression. Collapse implies a complete failure of everything. 
> 
> Also you do realize that assets = liabilities + stockholder equity? Yeah please say you do. In other words all the debt is on one side of the balance sheet the other side is the exact same amount of assets. Hence why they equal each other. 
> 
> I'm tired of the constant the world is failing attitude on this board. Oh okc isn't an urban utopia and we're tearing an old bus station, the government has a shortfall this year, the whole world economy is going to collapse. It's so whiny, annoying, and hopeless. What's dumb about it none of those are going to be that bad. Everyone just wants to panic or be dramatic. When really, they'll be some pain but people will move on and get back on their feet.


Wait so it is time to PANIC now?!?!?!?!  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## gopokes88

> Wait so it is time to PANIC now?!?!?!?!


Yep, then wake up tomorrow, get over it, get to work, and stop worrying about things you have no control over.

----------


## bchris02

This round of CHK layoffs is pretty much the same scale as the layoffs back in 2013 and the local market absorbed that shock pretty easily.  Now this will likely be a little worse because in 2013 the broader O&G market was still strong and now it isn't, but I don't see how this is the end of the world.  I feel bad for those who have been laid off.  I was laid off during 2008 and it really sucks.  Life does go on though and I had another job within a month.

----------


## okatty

Rumor mill is that Halliburton might  have more layoffs this week  - anyone heard anything about that?

----------


## mimino

> Rumor mill is that Halliburton might  have more layoffs this week  - anyone heard anything about that?


This was posted before, but I doubt that's a one-time layoff. More like a cumulative number: Halliburton: Internal Memo And Sources Warn Up To 20,000 Layoffs Coming - Halliburton Company (NYSE:HAL) | Seeking Alpha

----------


## Stickman

There are a lot of rumors, there *will be* more layoffs coming from different  companies including Devon,  maybe not the number CHK  had last week, but it is still scary.

----------


## adaniel

> There are a lot of rumors, there *will be* more layoffs coming from different  companies including Devon,  maybe not the number CHK  had last week, but it is still scary.


The FY ended yesterday, and a lot of banks are reviewing their credit structures to different energy companies. They are getting pressure from the feds to start limiting their exposure to the oil business. My guess is a lot of banks are going to turn off their lifeline. 

It was always predicted that the end of Q3/beginning of Q4 would be the worst of it. We are definitely in the eye of the storm.

----------


## chuck5815

> There are a lot of rumors, there *will be* more layoffs coming from different  companies including Devon,  maybe not the number CHK  had last week, but it is still scary.


perhaps that is true for other companies, but my sources are saying that a mass layoff at Devon wouldn't occur until June of next year. if June comes and prices are essentially the same, DVN will likely make a big move. until that point, though, the company will focus on quietly shedding its weakest performers.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> This round of CHK layoffs is pretty much the same scale as the layoffs back in 2013 and the local market absorbed that shock pretty easily.  Now this will likely be a little worse because in 2013 the broader O&G market was still strong and now it isn't, but I don't see how this is the end of the world.  I feel bad for those who have been laid off.  I was laid off during 2008 and it really sucks.  Life does go on though and I had another job within a month.


LOL, yeah a job in a city that you openly despise.

----------


## Teo9969

> LOL, yeah a job in a city that you openly despise.


I think that was back when he lived out of OKC.

----------


## Urbanized

In fairness, PhiAlpha, bchris' posting style has changed pretty dramatically over recent months. He has been open about the fact that he was living in the wrong part of town for his sensibilities, suffering from some isolation issues and a bit of social awkwardness. He has since moved to the middle of the city and I for one have seen a different person on the other end of the interwebs. His constant pervasive negativity regarding OKC in the past made him pretty tempting/fun to kick around, and I will admit that I have done it myself, but I vote we give him a chance to continue to assimilate.

----------


## Bellaboo

> I think that was back when he lived out of OKC.


He lived in Charlotte at the time.

----------


## Teo9969

> He lived in Charlotte at the time.


Or Little Rock. Bchris has lived in several places…something that can't be said for a lot of people in this city...

----------


## bchris02

> In fairness, PhiAlpha, bchris' posting style has changed pretty dramatically over recent months. He has been open about the fact that he was living in the wrong part of town for his sensibilities, suffering from some isolation issues and a bit of social awkwardness. He has sense moved to the middle of the city and I for one have seen a different person on the other end of the interwebs. His constant pervasive negativity regarding OKC in the past made him pretty tempting/fun to kick around, and I will admit that I have done it myself, but I vote we give him a chance to continue to assimilate.


Thanks.

Honestly I can't believe I held out in suburbia for as long as I did.  Downtown is a very different world and it isn't something you can fully be a part of unless you live downtown.  Though it may work for some, for me, living in the outer burbs and commuting in didn't cut it.  I am glad things worked out the way it did though because I got an excellent place that I am really loving that probably wouldn't have been available if I would have moved sooner.   There are still things I dislike about OKC but its getting better fast and I don't have the desire to move to another city that I did when I lived in the burbs.  I think many of my remaining complaints about it here will be non-issues within the next 3-5 years if it even takes that long.  I don't know what will happen in the future but for now, I am content here.

----------


## Urbanized

Crap. *SINCE*. I'm my own spelling police.

----------


## Teo9969

> Crap. *SINCE*. I'm my own spelling police.


I let it slide since your post was a positive one and since you're not a repeat offender  :Wink:

----------


## ctchandler

> I let it slide since your post was a positive one and since you're not a repeat offender


Teo,
He doesn't deserve your charity, trust me, he and my son are "no damn good".
C. T.
p.s. Actually, they aren't too bad.

----------


## zookeeper

> Thanks.
> 
> Honestly I can't believe I held out in suburbia for as long as I did.  Downtown is a very different world and it isn't something you can fully be a part of unless you live downtown.  Though it may work for some, for me, living in the outer burbs and commuting in didn't cut it.  I am glad things worked out the way it did though because I got an excellent place that I am really loving that probably wouldn't have been available if I would have moved sooner.   There are still things I dislike about OKC but its getting better fast and I don't have the desire to move to another city that I did when I lived in the burbs.  I think many of my remaining complaints about it here will be non-issues within the next 3-5 years if it even takes that long.*  I don't know what will happen in the future but for now, I am content here.*


There's a lot to be said for contentment. So many look for a constant happiness that just isn't there for most people. Contentment is good. I've noticed the change in posting style as well. You're not as negative about so many things and I think that your new lifestyle and willingness to make real change shows right here on this board. Everything has its own time, it's clearly your time to blossom. Best of luck, bchris.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> In fairness, PhiAlpha, bchris' posting style has changed pretty dramatically over recent months. He has been open about the fact that he was living in the wrong part of town for his sensibilities, suffering from some isolation issues and a bit of social awkwardness. He has since moved to the middle of the city and I for one have seen a different person on the other end of the interwebs. His constant pervasive negativity regarding OKC in the past made him pretty tempting/fun to kick around, and I will admit that I have done it myself, but I vote we give him a chance to continue to assimilate.


True, if you're only looking at what he's posted on OKCtalk. His posts on citydata have continued to be extremely Anti-OKC to the point of being absurd.

----------


## Laramie

Looks as though Texas is trying to target many Fortune 500 companies as they can gobble up.   They now raided 4 from Oklahoma:

*Fleming,* _Oklahoma City_
*Kerr McGee,*_ Oklahoma City_
*Phillips 66,* _Bartlesville
_*Williams,* _Tulsa
_
MAPS is the only reason Houston doesn't currently have Devon Energy.

Oklahoma needs to address this issue before we lose what few Fortune 500 companies we have left to our 'greedy' neighbor south of the Red River.  That's four they've plucked out of the Sooner State.    

You remember *Exxon-Mobil* was lured to Irving, Texas (Dallas suburb).

----------


## ctchandler

> Looks as though Texas is trying to target many Fortune 500 companies as they can gobble up.   They now raided 4 from Oklahoma:
> 
> *Fleming,* _Oklahoma City_


Laramie,
True, but if you remember, Fleming was near bankruptcy before they left for Texas.  I think they were gone in about three years.  But you're correct to list them as one of the four.  Were you around when Fleming moved into The Waterford, then began whining about the cost of the leased space?  By the way, they moved to OKC in 1981, to Lewisville, Tx., in 2000, and in 2003, filed for bankruptcy.
C. T.

----------


## Laramie

> Laramie,
> True, but if you remember, Fleming was near bankruptcy before they left for Texas.  I think they were gone in about three years.  But you're correct to list them as one of the four.  Were you around when Fleming moved into The Waterford, then began whining about the cost of the leased space?  By the way, they moved to OKC in 1981, to Lewisville, Tx., in 2000, and in 2003, filed for bankruptcy.
> C. T.


Thanks ctchandler!

That would explains that upon moving to the Metroplex why they are no longer a Fortune 500 company; their trouble began here?

IIRC:  Fleming was originally in Topeka, Kansas before their relocation to Oklahoma City in 1984; then, Lewisville in 2000.   Karma you might say, The Dallas area did to OKC what OKC did to Topeka.  The plight of capitalism.

That _Fortune 500 Tag_ looks more like a tiara (faade) on a company's portfolio; until you remove the cosmetics;  then you can take a real look at the company's aesthetics.

----------


## bradh

Cities within Texas gobble them up.  XOM is moving to The Woodlands from Irving.

----------


## ctchandler

> Thanks ctchandler!
> 
> That would explains that upon moving to the Metroplex why they are no longer a Fortune 500 company; their trouble began here?
> 
> IIRC:  Fleming was originally in Topeka, Kansas before their relocation to Oklahoma City in 1984; then, Lewisville in 2000.   Karma you might say, The Dallas area did to OKC what OKC did to Topeka.  The plight of capitalism.
> 
> That _Fortune 500 Tag_ looks more like a tiara (faade) on a company's portfolio; until you remove the cosmetics;  then you can take a real look at the company's aesthetics.


Laramie,
I attended some kind of conference hosted by Fleming at their corporate headquarters in Topeka.  Boy, what a pain to get there from here.  I worked for Scrivner at the time.  How does the number two food distributor in America (Fleming) buy number four (Scrivner) and as number one in the country, end up bankrupt?  I believe Scrivner was pretty solid, they had a mix (not a balanced one, they were primarily a distributor) of wholesale and retail.  Remember Food World?  They also owned a few other chains around the country.  Fleming didn't believe in owning grocery stores and when they purchased a wholesale company that owned stores, they disposed of them fairly quickly, like Food World.  I guess you could say, OKC was the beginning of the end, but the way I see it, they started going down hill in Lewisville.  They were sued for fraud by a Texas chain and it wasn't long after that and they were gone.
C. T.

----------


## Urbanized

Kerr-McGee was a husk of its former self when Anadarko bought it. That wasn't much of a coup in retrospect, either.

----------


## ctchandler

> Kerr-McGee was a husk of its former self when Anadarko bought it. That wasn't much of a coup in retrospect, either.


Urbanized,
I don't know, Fortune 500 is an elite group.  They had a fairly large retail presence which was eliminated when they made their move, maybe that's why they were rated so high.
C. T.

----------


## Laramie

> Cities within Texas gobble them up.  XOM is moving to The Woodlands from Irving.


That's interesting; Houston area has picked one from Dallas' back pocket.   :Smile:

----------


## Just the facts

Texas deserves all the corporate tax-parasites they can attract.

----------


## zookeeper

> Cities within Texas gobble them up.  XOM is moving to The Woodlands from Irving.


That's one of the grandest campus headquarters I have ever seen. Really nice.

----------


## adaniel

> That's interesting; Houston area has picked one from Dallas' back pocket.


It has been rumored for years, but XOM has confirmed they will keep their HQ staff in Las Colinas. I know, makes no sense, considering they just finished their campus in Houston 

That campus, btw, it is a sight to behold. I am not sure to be impressed or terrified by it.

----------


## zookeeper

> It has been rumored for years, but XOM has confirmed they will keep their HQ staff in Las Colinas. I know, makes no sense, considering they just finished their campus in Houston 
> 
> That campus, btw, it is a sight to behold. I am not sure to be impressed or terrified by it.


It's hard to keep up with the latest. I remember at one time, it was felt they were simply staying in Irving to fulfill an incentive program that had a costly exit clause. It's hard to not see the Houston campus as anything but a headquarters. I can relate to your impressed/terrified feelings. But, wow, it's nice.

----------


## BG918

> I can relate to your impressed/terrified feelings. But, wow, it's nice.


I work in construction and a stone supplier told me when they were building the campus that the large quantity of marble throughout that single project caused the material price to increase on projects across the US.  Not sure how true it is but an interesting story nonetheless.   :Smile:

----------


## Plutonic Panda

About 1,000 barrels of crude released in pipeline spill in Oklahoma | News OK

----------


## catch22

> About 1,000 barrels of crude released in pipeline spill in Oklahoma | News OK


But I thought a pipeline spilling oil was science fiction??

----------


## ctchandler

> But I thought a pipeline spilling oil was science fiction??


Catch22,
Did you read the article?  It's not like the system failed, plus, I don't know of a perfect system in any type of transport, just some are better than others.  Pipelines are statistically safer than rail or trucks.  The article said *"Heine said the damage to the pipeline was related to third-party excavation activities."*.  Just like my phone and internet outage from Monday till Wednesday, construction excavation cut a major cable and our whole area was without phones and internet.
C. T.

----------


## David

It's hardly a "spill" when someone opens up the pipeline with a backhoe.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

It spilled into the environment. Plain and simple. lol

----------


## ctchandler

> It spilled into the environment. Plain and simple. lol


PluPan,
First, glad to see you posting again, but pick your poison, oil will be moved in some manner, rail, tanker trucks, or pipelines.  Which do you believe is best?  And ships don't count because eventually, it has to be moved inland and as far as I know there aren't any amphibious tankers.  Of course I did see your "Lol", so not sure how serious your comment was.
C. T.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> PluPan,
> First, glad to see you posting again, but pick your poison, oil will be moved in some manner, rail, tanker trucks, or pipelines.  Which do you believe is best?  And ships don't count because eventually, it has to be moved inland and as far as I know there aren't any amphibious tankers.  Of course I did see your "Lol", so not sure how serious your comment was.
> C. T.


Thank you! I've been really busy for awhile.

Well, I was being a little facetious. I understand what happened.

----------


## catch22

It is still a spill. It doesn't matter if the pipeline failed or if human factors played a part. The energy sector continues to push this concept that pipelines are immune to oil spills. It is fair to point out that they can spill just as rail does, in many ways.

I manage over 3 million gallons of jet fuel storage per day at my other job, and we have a dedicated pipeline bringing us close to, and in some cases, more than 500,000 gallons of jet fuel per day. Any hydrocarbon spill over 50 gallons is a *major* spill requiring fire departments, the EPA, and a file cabinet full of paperwork. 

This was most definitely a spill, because 42,000 gallons of oil spilled.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> It is still a spill. It doesn't matter if the pipeline failed or if human factors played a part. The energy sector continues to push this concept that pipelines are immune to oil spills. It is fair to point out that they can spill just as rail does, in many ways.
> 
> I manage over 3 million gallons of jet fuel storage per day at my other job, and we have a dedicated pipeline bringing us close to, and in some cases, more than 500,000 gallons of jet fuel per day. Any hydrocarbon spill over 50 gallons is a *major* spill requiring fire departments, the EPA, and a file cabinet full of paperwork. 
> 
> This was most definitely a spill, because 42,000 gallons of oil spilled.


I don't think I've ever seen an energy company say that spills and accidents never happen or that pipelines are immune to accidents. The point has always been that pipelines are the safest way to transport liquid or gaseous hydrocarbon products and it is done without issue the vast majority of the time, especially when you consider the huge number of pipelines vs the number of incidents. Can you give any evidence to contradict that or offer a safer method of transportation for them? 

When there are spills, they generally aren't that difficult to clean up and if environmental remediation is done properly, the impacts are almost completely unnoticeable after the next growing season. When dealing with surface spill issues,we would pay for any crop damages then offer to remediate the surface ourselves or pay the surface owner to do it (either himself or after getting an estimate from a third party). Our only complaints came when surface owners took the money, spent it, never did the remediation work, and were pissed when they mysteriously couldn't grow anything the next year.

----------


## catch22

I want to be clear, I am not against pipelines in most cases. I was making a simple observation, that some promoters of pipelines put out that they are immune to anything bad from happening. I think it's fair to be realistic with expectations of both sides to the issue.

----------


## ctchandler

> I want to be clear, I am not against pipelines in most cases. I was making a simple observation, that some promoters of pipelines put out that they are immune to anything bad from happening. I think it's fair to be realistic with expectations of both sides to the issue.


Catch,
I totally agree with your last statement, but can you name a reputable organization that says "pipelines are immune to anything bad from happening"?  That would be a pretty irresponsible statement.
C. T.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Catch,
> I totally agree with your last statement, but can you name a reputable organization that says "pipelines are immune to anything bad from happening"?  That would be a pretty irresponsible statement.
> C. T.


That is my question as well. To my knowledge no one has ever said or tried to create the illusion that pipelines are immune to accidents or spills, the point has always been that the products will be moved one way or the other and pipelines are the safest way to do it.

----------


## ou48A

Not only are modern pipelines statistically safer for both people and the environment than any other form of transportation they are a cheaper form of transportation…

The additional savings gives business who buy in bulk units via pipeline a cost advantage. Which means they can often sell their product cheaper at home and abroad ….This holds down consumer prices but also leads to higher employment levels for US workers. Many of these are very good jobs!

Oil will always find its way to the market place. Those who block the development of modern pipelines are actually increasing the risk to the environment, the economy and to the safety of average people! 

For those of you who do not know… I have about 16 years of field experience dealing with large diameter, very long distance transmission pipelines, gathering systems  and their associated facility’s… I can easily say new pipelines are now designed and built to far higher standards than they were 30 or more years ago….

 Unlike crude trains, major new pipelines can be rerouted away from high populated areas.

----------


## mkjeeves

What to do with all the oil?

Something Very Strange Is Taking Place Off The Coast Of Galveston, TX | Zero Hedge

----------


## gopokes88

> What to do with all the oil?
> 
> Something Very Strange Is Taking Place Off The Coast Of Galveston, TX | Zero Hedge


The market is going to try and plummet the price of Brent and wti as hard and as fast as they can ahead of this opec meeting to try and scare them into cutting production. As the price gets lower and lower instability in the Mid East will grow and grow

----------


## Plutonic Panda

7 disposal wells in northern Oklahoma ordered to stop operations | Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Energy industry in Oklahoma prepares for retirement boom | News OK

----------


## ljbab728

Not all is doom and gloom in the OKC energy related businesses.

Oklahoma City oil-field technology company Oseberg gets $10 million investment | NewsOK.com
.



> Despite a bearish energy market, oil and gas technology startup Oseberg said Tuesday it has closed on a $10 million investment round.
> 
> Oseberg, which has offices in Oklahoma City and New Orleans, also announced a new product called Sl, a Web-based research tool that improves access to oil and gas industry data.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Not all is doom and gloom in the OKC energy related businesses.
> 
> Oklahoma City oil-field technology company Oseberg gets $10 million investment | NewsOK.com
> .


I've used some of their software and it's great stuff. These guys will continue to do great things, glad they received some additional investment.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

This would be a step in the right direction.

Marginal wells could lose tax exemption | The Journal Record

----------


## bradh

> This would be a step in the right direction.
> 
> Marginal wells could lose tax exemption | The Journal Record


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this will essentially shut down stripper wells, right?

----------


## Teo9969

Layoffs at Chaparral today.

----------


## ou48A

> This would be a step in the right direction.
> 
> Marginal wells could lose tax exemption | The Journal Record


Why would that be a step in the right direction?

----------


## bradh

> Why would that be a step in the right direction?


He just thinks it's more money to the state to hopefully fix problems i.e. education.  There is more to it that I'm really not qualified to speak on though.

----------


## Just the facts

It would either increase state revenue or lower oil production.  Both would be an improvement.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Why would that be a step in the right direction?





> He just thinks it's more money to the state to hopefully fix problems i.e. education.  There is more to it that I'm really not qualified to speak on though.


Because I think the state needs more money and we tax oil companies way too low.

Please correct me if I'm wrong... I am not an expert on this matter.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Because I think the state needs more money and we tax oil companies way too low.
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong... I am not an expert on this matter.


Dont disagree that some operations are taxed too low, however raising taxes on marginal wells in the worst pricing environment in 15 years is probably not the best place to start. If wells are marginally economic at the current price of oil, I don't think it would be wise to raise taxes and make them even less economic. The state would probably lose more money from production on all the wells that would have to be shut in or plugged than it would make on the tax increase. That's just speculation, but not implausible.

----------


## bradh

Plu...I'm not either, I just know little enough to bring it up.  I don't disagree the state needs more funds, but I think there is more to the story with these marginally producing wells.  I just need one of our local O&G experts to take it from here  :Smile:

----------


## bradh

Aren't marginal wells also a vital income source for some entities (such as farms, schools, etc) and individual landowners who have them on their property, not just the producers of those wells?

----------


## ou48A

> Because I think the state needs more money and we tax oil companies way too low.
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong... I am not an expert on this matter.


Before horizontal drilling took center stage a very large amount of our states oil production came from low production wells (striper wells)…. To remove the taxes on this type of well would most often mean well abandonment and plugging the well forever. This would be extremely short sighted! 

Not only would we lose their oil & NG production, we would lose good jobs and corporations that both pay taxes. We would also lose the taxes collected on equipment, services and supplies.

But still worse is the opportunity that would be forever lost with new secondary recovery methods and new well simulation methods.    With these new methods and the right economic conditions many of these wells can still produce increased amounts of hydrocarbons and pay very large amounts of taxes. 

Most horizontal wells have a very high depletion rate. It won’t be long before many of these wells enter their striper well stage of life. This type of production is a strategic resource not to be wasted.

The oil and NG industry is generally the highest taxed industry in the USA. Taxing them more will eventually cause harm to the consumers and to the nation’s economy with the inflationary pressures of higher oil prices.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Dont disagree that some operations are taxed too low, *however raising taxes on marginal wells in the worst pricing environment in 15 years is probably not the best place to start.* If wells are marginally economic at the current price of oil, I don't think it would be wise to raise taxes and make them even less economic. The state would probably lose more money from production on all the wells that would have to be shut in or plugged than it would make on the tax increase. That's just speculation, but not implausible.


I agree with that.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Before horizontal drilling took center stage a very large amount of our states oil production came from low production wells (striper wells)…. To remove the taxes on this type of well would most often mean well abandonment and plugging the well forever. This would be extremely short sighted! 
> 
> Not only would we lose their oil & NG production, we would lose good jobs and corporations that both pay taxes. We would also lose the taxes collected on equipment, services and supplies.
> 
> But still worse is the opportunity that would be forever lost with new secondary recovery methods and new well simulation methods.    With these new methods and the right economic conditions many of these wells can still produce increased amounts of hydrocarbons and pay very large amounts of taxes. 
> 
> Most horizontal wells have a very high depletion rate. It won’t be long before many of these wells enter their striper well stage of life. This type of production is a strategic resource not to be wasted.
> 
> The oil and NG industry is generally the highest taxed industry in the USA. Taxing them more will eventually cause harm to the consumers and to the nation’s economy with the inflationary pressures of higher oil prices.


Thank you for that information. I was unaware that these wells would be in danger of completely closing if this happened.

----------


## bradh

Thanks ou48a, I knew someone could explain it better 




> But still worse is the opportunity that would be forever lost with new secondary recovery methods and new well simulation methods. With these new methods and the right economic conditions many of these wells can still produce increased amounts of hydrocarbons and pay very large amounts of taxes.


Which means, plugging the well forever means $0 revenue in the future, even if the production tax never gets raise from the 2% that it is now.  2% of something is better than 2% of zero.

----------


## ou48A

> Thank you for that information. I was unaware that these wells would be in danger of completely closing if this happened.


Every state in the nation has rules set by state agencies (fed’s too) that at some point mandate that wells be responsibly plugged…In most cases I believe most states go with a year after production stopped? 

But unless it’s believed they could cause environmental damage or there is another complying reason I would like to see the time expanded by a very large amount because there is still a giant amount of unrecovered oil in the rocks that some of the new methods might be able to get at?

----------


## ou48A

> Thanks ou48a, I knew someone could explain it better 
> 
> 
> 
> Which means, plugging the well forever means $0 revenue in the future, even if the production tax never gets raise from the 2% that it is now.  2% of something is better than 2% of zero.


They are also contributor to national security!

----------


## Just the facts

So we can't tax them in the good times because that will lead to bad times, and we can't tax them in bad times because that will prevent return of the good times.  So when should we tax them?

This reminds me of a young couple debating when to have children.  You just have them and life will sort itself out.

----------


## sooner88

WPX Energy (who bought RKI Exploration) is closing their OKC office and laying off 60 employees and offering jobs to an additional 33 in other offices. 

WPX Energy to close OKC office, lay off 60 employees | News OK

----------


## BillyOcean

was that really a surprise...I loved how the OKC people believed that they would leave that office open when RKI was bought.

----------


## BG918

WPX is doing everything they can just to stay afloat.  They may not make it another 6 months unless oil prices go up.

----------


## BillyOcean

^^^^^
did not realize the situation was so dire....not good.

----------


## Thomas Vu

Wow, I interviewed for a position in that building too to help with the takeover.  Somewhat glad I didn't get in now.

----------


## blangtang

*CONTINENTAL RESOURCES HALTS ALL FRACKING IN BAKKEN SHALE

saw this on the business wire, still looking for more info on it

----------


## zookeeper

> *CONTINENTAL RESOURCES HALTS ALL FRACKING IN BAKKEN SHALE
> 
> saw this on the business wire, still looking for more info on it


Investor's Business Daily
Continental Stops Bakken Fracking; Upbeat On New Play | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD

Continental Resources[ticker symb=CLR], a top producer in the Bakken shale formation, said Wednesday it has ceased fracking operations there amid the continued slump in oil prices. The bellwether shale company had already planned to defer most Bakken completions in 2016. It has four operated drilling rigs in the North Dakota Bakken with plans to maintain that level through the year. But Continental said it currently has "no stimulation crews deployed in the Bakken." Shares were up 2% in after-hours trading in the stock market today. Continental posted an adjusted net loss of 23 cents per share in Q4, down from a profit of $1.14 per share a year ago. Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters were expecting a loss of 21 cents per share. Revenue sank 55.6% to $575.5 million, above views for $568.2 million. But Continental was bullish on acreage in its STACK play in Oklahoma, and expects an average estimated ultimate recovery of 1.7 million barrels of oil equivalent per well. "Our overpressured Meramec wells in STACK are delivering some of the highest returns in the Company," said COO Jack Stark in a statement. "We clearly have another high impact, long-term platform for growth underlying our 155,000 net acres of leasehold in STACK." The company plans to average four-to-five operated drilling rigs in the STACK play in 2016. Last month, Continental guided 2016 capital spending to $920 million, down 66% from 2015. It also sees production falling during the year on lower drilling and well completion activity. Other shale companies reported Q4 results below estimates late Wednesday and further reduced capital spending plans. Concho Resources[ticker symb=CXO] swung to a Q4 adjusted loss of 7 cents per share from a profit of 88 cents per share a year ago, missing views for a profit of 4 cents a share. Revenue sank 34.5% to $389.2 million, well below views of $525.4 million. Concho sees 2016 capital spending of $1.1 billion-$1.3 billion vs. $1.8 billion in 2015, which was already a 20% drop from 2014. The company expects full-year 2016 production will be flat-to-down approximately 5% vs. 2015. Shares were unchanged late. Oasis Petroleum's[ticker symb=OAS] earnings tumbled 85.7% to 5 cents a share, missing analyst estimates by a penny. Revenue fell 39.2% to $182.1 million, under views for $238 million. Oasis set its total capex budget at $400 million, down from $610 million in 2015, when it dropped 61%. For the year, Oasis said that 70% of its projected oil volumes are hedged to more than $51 per barrel for U.S. crude. On Wednesday, West Texas Intermediate futures settled at $32.15 a barrel, up 0.9%. Oasis shares jumped 4% after hours. Unlike Exxon Mobil[ticker symb=XOM]  and other integrated oil majors, shale producers don’t have downstream operations that benefit from cheap oil to help cushion profit during price slumps. Earlier this month, Cabot Oil & Gas'[ticker symb=COG] quarterly results swung to a loss and Pioneer Natural Resources[ticker symb=PXD] posted a better-than-expected loss but cut its spending outlook just a month after offering more bullish guidance. EOG Resources[ticker symb=EOG] reports Thursday. EOG is expected to swing to a 31 cent per-share loss down from a per-share profit of 79 cents. Revenue is expected to fall 53.2% to $525.4 million. Earlier Wednesday, Royal Dutch Shell[ticker symb=RDSA] said it is closing its unconventional resources unit, with its shale assets becoming part of its upstream business, and projects in Canada becoming part of its downstream unit. Chesapeake Energy's[ticker symb=CHK] Q4 results swung to a loss and revenue fell 47.5%. The oil and gas producers said it has signed deals to divest $700 million in gas fields and other assets, well above its $200 million-$300 million target, and plans to sell $500 million-$1 billion in additional assets this year.  Chesapeake will also cut 2016 capital spending by 57% to $1.3 billion-$1.8 billion and sees production falling by as much as 5% excluding asset sales. Meanwhile, the Energy Information Administration said that U.S. inventories rose by 3.5 million barrels vs. the 7.1 million barrel build the American Petroleum Institute, an industry group, reported late Tuesday. Analysts expected a rise of 3.4 million barrels.

----------


## zookeeper

Dickinson, ND Newspaper a couple of hours ago - before the news about the halt.

Continental Resources quarterly loss misses expectations | The Dickinson Press

Things go from bad to worse in North Dakota.

Per Reuters in The Fargo Forum newspaper:

ND's largest oil producer Whiting suspends fracking, slashes budget after big loss

So, in two hours, Continental *and* Whiting Petroleum, the two largest producers in ND announce halts.

----------


## Tundra

But oil is surging on the market now, surely everything is okay.... We're back baby!  Get out people before you lose big time....

----------


## onthestrip

This is needed. Why does our state subsidize something the free market cant sustain? Thats not the republican way I thought? And this marginal well tax credit is going to cost taxpayers $25 million this year. Not to mention the already sweet deal they got with a 2% gross production tax. Yet oil execs are writing op-eds complaining about wind subsidies. Maybe thats just trying to distract from how good of deal they have right now.

http://okenergytoday.com/2016/05/okl...ate-bill-1577/

----------


## Plutonic Panda

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-energy-co...rticle/5509868

----------


## dankrutka

Without getting into the politics of the election results, does this mean Harold Hamm could be the Secretary of Energy?

----------


## Anonymous.

Very likely.




> Energy secretary
> 
> Continental Resources CEO Harold Hamm has long been seen as a leading candidate for Energy Secretary. Hamm, an Oklahoma billionaire who has been a friend of Trump’s for years, has been the leading influence on Trump’s energy policy during the campaign.
> 
> If Hamm passes, venture capitalist Robert Grady is also seen as a top candidate, though he could also be in line for Interior.

----------


## gopokes88

> Without getting into the politics of the election results, does this mean Harold Hamm could be the Secretary of Energy?


Yes. It is also likely Fallin gets a post. She was loyal early often and late.

----------


## Swake

> Yes. It is also likely Fallin gets a post. She was loyal early often and late.


Sounds great, the two individuals most responsible for our earthquake problems with even more power. Nothing could go wrong there, right?

----------


## David

Make American Shake Again.

----------


## sooner88

Hamm sent an email to all employees today stating that he remains committed to the company and OKC, and his focus will remain on building the company.

----------


## onthestrip

> Hamm sent an email to all employees today stating that he remains committed to the company and OKC, and his focus will remain on building the company.


Wouldnt he have to give up his CEO position to be energy secretary? I would assume hed rather stay in control of Continental and just advise the president on energy.

----------


## sooner88

> Wouldnt he have to give up his CEO position to be energy secretary? I would assume hed rather stay in control of Continental and just advise the president on energy.


Exactly. Unless he's ready to turn over to control to another exec, I imagine he'll retain an advisory position and let someone else take the position.

----------


## gopokes88

> Wouldnt he have to give up his CEO position to be energy secretary? I would assume hed rather stay in control of Continental and just advise the president on energy.


He's still majority shareholder. He could get his job back fairly easily afterwords.

----------


## chuck5815

> He's still majority shareholder. He could get his job back fairly easily afterwords.


But maintaining his majority interest would create a massive conflict of interest, and a blind trust wouldn't solve anything unless he sold his CLR shares before funding the trust.

----------


## gopokes88

> But maintaining his majority interest would create a massive conflict of interest, and a blind trust wouldn't solve anything unless he sold his CLR shares before funding the trust.


Blind trust while he's in office. Politics aside, I'm not entirely sure that's going to matter very much in a trump admin.

----------


## mugofbeer

Why not?  His admin. wont be under scrutiny of the public or the law like everyone before him?

----------


## Bellaboo

Hamm sent out a memo yesterday to his employees stating he's not going anywhere, staying with Continental. Article in todays DOK.

----------


## Anonymous.

He was on CNBC yesterday afternoon, he would not clarify if he would accept or pass on the position. "We haven't had that conversation yet."

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000566622&play=1

----------


## Bunty

Energy sector expected to rebound next year 
http://www.stwnewspress.com/news/ene...cfe282549.html

----------


## Bellaboo

NG is at $ 3.73 today. Was less than a dollar fifty per thousand last February.

----------


## Bunty

> NG is at $ 3.73 today. Was less than a dollar fifty per thousand last February.


No surprise there from the current Arctic outbreak affecting most of the country for the first time this season.

Here is another article about the outlook for the state's economy:  http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/okl...trong#stream/0

----------


## sooner88

http://newsok.com/seventy-seven-ener...rticle/5530621

I have a close friend that works here, and apparently this offer came in relatively unexpectedly and was too good to turn down. Amazing that a company can emerge from bankruptcy and be sold that quickly. They aren't sure how many jobs will be moved to Houston or eliminated, but they had the merger call this morning and I'm sure more details will follow soon.

----------


## gopokes88

> http://newsok.com/seventy-seven-ener...rticle/5530621
> 
> I have a close friend that works here, and apparently this offer came in relatively unexpectedly and was too good to turn down. Amazing that a company can emerge from bankruptcy and be sold that quickly. They aren't sure how many jobs will be moved to Houston or eliminated, but they had the merger call this morning and I'm sure more details will follow soon.


Keep in mind the banks own the company right now. The whole debt for equity swap thing. So its likely they had little to no say and the banks saw a good way out. 

SD is likely next.

----------


## gopokes88

Tom ward is out, Steve Dixon is in. 

http://m.newsok.com/article/5531550

----------


## OkieRedRaider

What is Tom starting up, just another E&P company?

----------


## sooner88

It looks like we'll be losing jobs to Houston. Permian Resources is currently occupying 2 floors in the office complex south of Chesapeake. 

http://newsok.com/article/5548157

----------


## gopokes88

> It looks like we'll be losing jobs to Houston. Permian Resources is currently occupying 2 floors in the office complex south of Chesapeake. 
> 
> http://newsok.com/article/5548157


How did you arrive to that conclusion?

----------


## sooner88

> How did you arrive to that conclusion?


Employees that are currently working at Permian.

----------

