# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Norman >  OU Projects

## ETL

Ok, so what is going in by the Huff? I hear it's a pool, and I hear it's a power plan. What is it? Also, what about the area by subway? Any plans for that yet?

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## kevinpate

By Huff is the new chill plant, replacing the one that has long been up Jenkins near Boyd (if my memory is not totally blown)

The Jenkins/Lindsey corner is now owned by OU, but what'll happen there is on hold (this also is if my memory is not totally blown)

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## ETL

Is there still anything about a pool? I keep hearing about a pool, but I can't find any recent literature about it.

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## OUSoonerfan3

Last I heard, plans for a new swim complex have been shelved.

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## Spartan

There was going to be an indoor waterpark, but it never advanced beyond being a pie in the sky. OU has put a lot of building projects on hold particularly for housing--if it weren't for the recession, you would be amazed at the amount of construction underway at the moment. What we could really use is a sugar daddy to keep us cash positive and moving forward, like that other school..

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## z28james

When I went to school there they had the students vote for the water park, I remembered that I voted no and so did the majority. I think they were going to hike up a big fee to the students for it and we didnt like that. The fee for the huff is was really ridiculous for the value i thought. Huff is the best fitness facility in the state that I have ever seen, but not worth the effort to get there.

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## Spartan

> Huff is the best fitness facility in the state that I have ever seen, but not worth the effort to get there.


Huff is the worst fitness facility in the state that I have ever seen, but still worth the effort to get there if you're trying to get in shape.

You should check out the Colvin Center (OSU) and the Collins Center (TU), both of which blow our rec center out of the water. THAT is why they put the indoor waterpark out there, to upgrade the status of the rec center and give it something sexy to brag about along the likes of these other amazing rec centers popping up all over the country now.

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## okyeah

I voted no also, but the majority voted yes...I think it passed because around 52% voted yes.  I heard the swimming pool thing will still happen, but it will be a scaled down version, not what was presented to students.

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## ouguy23

> I voted no also, but the majority voted yes...I think it passed because around 52% voted yes.  I heard the swimming pool thing will still happen, but it will be a scaled down version, not what was presented to students.


This is what I heard as well...It did pass with a majority in favor. I voted yes when I was a student, but the the swimming pool they plan on building at some point is a scaled down version of what we voted for.

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## Spartan

> This is what I heard as well...It did pass with a majority in favor. I voted yes when I was a student, but the the swimming pool they plan on building at some point is a scaled down version of what we voted for.


The fee remains the same though, right?

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## blangtang

I heard the transit department wants to build an elevated monorail from Lloyd Noble Center thru south campus, dorms, etc  all the way to the Bizzel Library.  Anyone know when its supposed to be up an running?  First I heard of it was about 2 years ago from a route planner in the CART office.

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## kbsooner

someone has been watching old Simpson reruns!




> I heard the transit department wants to build an elevated monorail from Lloyd Noble Center thru south campus, dorms, etc  all the way to the Bizzel Library.  Anyone know when its supposed to be up an running?  First I heard of it was about 2 years ago from a route planner in the CART office.

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## NickFiggins

The Jenkins area is supposed to be the new athletic dorms, coupled with honors dorms (to meet ncaa regs). Since the foundation owns the land, and not the university there is a chance that o'connells could remain in the area as a first floor tenant of the new condos. At least this was what I heard from O'Connells owner.

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## kevinpate

> The Jenkins area is supposed to be the new athletic dorms, coupled with honors dorms (to meet ncaa regs). Since the foundation owns the land, and not the university there is a chance that o'connells could remain in the area as a first floor tenant of the new condos. At least this was what I heard from O'Connells owner.


That would make me very happy.  When in school I never really got the attraction of The Mont, but I was, and remain,  a fan of what O'Connell's has carried on at the Lindsey location. I've love for it to remain.

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## BossLady

I am a fan as well. It's vastly different from the Campus Corner location, in menu and patrons. I prefer the Lindsey street. Plus, it's the only bar around me!

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## blangtang

OU President David Boren said the university plans to build new Sooner Housing dorms in the approximate 2.2-acre space, which will be mixed with athletes and non-athletes, and tear down the Jefferson and Jones dorms, which sit across Lindsey Street from the future development. 

http://normantranscript.com/headline...re-development

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## Pete

So, the Sooner Center Housing will definitely be on the SE corner of Lindsey & Jenkins and it looks like they may include retail on the ground level.  Elsewhere, the complex has been described as "mid-rise" with a central dining and computer lab.

The other projects on the immediate list (gleaned from reading the regent's minutes) are:

Four Partners Place in the south research campus ($48 million)
Improvements to both the softball and baseball complexes (about $4 million each)
Stuart Wing, Fred Jones Art Center (about $11 million and already underway)
Armory Renovation ($12 million -- I think this has already started?)

Two big projects are wrapping up and should be complete by summer:

Gould Hall ($33 million)
Zarrow Hall ($12 million)

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## BG918

> So, the Sooner Center Housing will definitely be on the SE corner of Lindsey & Jenkins and it looks like they may include retail on the ground level.  Elsewhere, the complex has been described as "mid-rise" with a central dining and computer lab.
> 
> The other projects on the immediate list (gleaned from reading the regent's minutes) are:
> 
> Four Partners Place in the south research campus ($48 million)
> Improvements to both the softball and baseball complexes (about $4 million each)
> Stuart Wing, Fred Jones Art Center (about $11 million and already underway)
> Armory Renovation ($12 million -- I think this has already started?)
> 
> ...


There is also the Central Plant under construction north of the Huffman Center.  After that is finished (next year) they will start the new aquatics center and Huffman expansion.  The total cost for both projects is over $100 million.  With the new housing at Lindsey & Jenkins and the Huffman projects that will be a busy place for a few years.  

I don't know of any other projects on the horizon.  I have heard Goddard Health Center is slated to be replaced with a new building at some point, and some of the older buildings like Bizzell Library will see renovations.  I know OU wants a new science lab building on campus, not sure if they would build a new building or renovate an existing one like GL Cross.

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## BoulderSooner

from the jan regents meeting... it looks like the demolition will start very soon and the constrution will come right after with completion set for fall 2013     also of note is that final plans will be unveiled at the march meeting 

AGENDA ITEM 19
ISSUE: SOONER CENTER STUDENT HOUSING – NC
ACTION PROPOSED:
President Boren recommends the Board of Regents:
I. Approve an initial guaranteed maximum price of $2,400,000 for demolition,
excavation and site development related improvements; and
II. Recognize and acknowledge that the University may incur certain costs relative to
the above project prior to receipt of bond proceeds and, to the extent the
University utilizes its own funds for said costs, it is intended that bond proceeds
will be utilized to reimburse the University.
BACKGROUND AND/OR RATIONALE:
At the May 2008 meeting and with each subsequently approved Campus Master Plan
of Capital Improvement Projects for the Norman Campus, the Board of Regents has approved
the Sooner Center Student Housing project. In May 2010, the Board approved the project with
an estimated total project cost of $75,000,000.
Design development plans are being prepared by the project architects, Studio
Architects, and it is anticipated that the Board will be requested to approve the project design in
March 2011. The center, to be located at the southeast corner of Jenkins Avenue and Lindsey
Street, will house students and student athletes in a combination of two- and four-bed units
totaling approximately 380 beds. The building is planned to be a mid-rise structure, with central
dining, computer labs, study rooms, and other support facilities on the ground floor. The project
will also include a Faculty-In-Residence apartment.
At the September 2010 meeting, the Board ranked Flintco, LLC of Oklahoma City
first among firms considered to provide at-risk construction management services for the project.
Flintco, LLC (the “CM”) has assisted in organizing the project construction sequence and
preparing a master schedule for construction, and has provided a guaranteed maximum price
proposal for initial demolition, excavation and site development related work. A guaranteed
maximum price of $2,400,000 is proposed for this initial work. This price includes the cost of
demolition and construction; the CM’s direct project management services; the CM’s fee, bonds
and project-related insurance; and an owner’s contingency. It is anticipated that the Board will
be asked to approve incremental increases to the guaranteed maximum price as construction
documents for the remainder of the project construction elements are finalized.
Demolition will commence directly, with the goal for project completion in fall 2013.
Funding for this phase of the project has been identified, is available and budgeted within
Athletics Department capital accounts.

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## Spartan

> So, the Sooner Center Housing will definitely be on the SE corner of Lindsey & Jenkins and it looks like they may include retail on the ground level.  Elsewhere, the complex has been described as "mid-rise" with a central dining and computer lab.
> 
> The other projects on the immediate list (gleaned from reading the regent's minutes) are:
> 
> Four Partners Place in the south research campus ($48 million)
> Improvements to both the softball and baseball complexes (about $4 million each)
> Stuart Wing, Fred Jones Art Center (about $11 million and already underway)
> Armory Renovation ($12 million -- I think this has already started?)
> 
> ...


How on earth did Gould Hall cost $33M?

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## BG918

> How on earth did Gould Hall cost $33M?


It's expensive to remediate asebestos in a 108,000 SF building, take it down to the steel structure including replacing all of the extensive brickwork, placing all new interior finishes, windows, roofing and HVAC/lighting systems, and building 25,000 SF worth of new additions including a larger subterranean level under the gallery.  For what they did to the existing building they could've torn it down and started over, but that was before they added a lot of scope to the project such as replacing the brick which was an almost $1 million increase..

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## Pete

Well, I take back my comments about possibly slowing down on construction for a while!

But I don't get why a 380 bed dorm -- even with the additional amenities -- is going to cost $75 million.  Especially since they've already bought the land (or perhaps they are including that in the cost estimate?).

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## ou48A

I could be wrong but I believe that a good portion of the new dorm space will be reserved for OU students who are on academic scholarships. I have been told these new dorms will be used as a academic recruiting tool.
I have heard limited details about the OU baseball park improvements, but as an OU baseball season ticket holder I would like to see a link detailing the plans. I have not yet been able to find anything in print.
I have heard LDM plans include the installation of green chair backs seats for the entire stadium and a new back stop.

I hope they do something to slow the wind from wiping though the stadium. :Bright Idea:

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## BoulderSooner

> Well, I take back my comments about possibly slowing down on construction for a while!
> 
> But I don't get why a 380 bed dorm -- even with the additional amenities -- is going to cost $75 million.  Especially since they've already bought the land (or perhaps they are including that in the cost estimate?).


that is a great ? pete ...    it will be very interesting to see the final design later this month

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## BG918

> that is a great ? pete ...    it will be very interesting to see the final design later this month


Agree.  I am hoping for mixed-use, with retail space at street level and residential units above.  It could set a precedent for future redevelopment of Cate Center, which I know OU has been interested in replacing.  

I worked on a project in arch school where the South Oval was extended through Cate Center to connect to the Walker-Adams Mall between the towers with new student housing on both sides.  It would be cool if something like that was actually built, with student-oriented retail space along Lindsey.

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## Pete

Love that idea BG918!

Clearly something has to be done to greatly expand student housing if the university is going to continue to grow.  The other option would be to build towers south of Huston Huffman and/or replace Cross Center.

These 380 beds will not do much in that regard.  That's only about half of what is in Walker Tower alone.

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## BG918

I'll take some pics soon.  Collings Hall looks finished.  Gould Hall is almost finished (landscaping underway).  Zarrow Hall is wrapping up on the exterior.  The art museum addition is finishing up.  The south campus energy plant is progressing nicely.  

Looks like the next round of construction will be the aquatics center (which will connect to the Huffman Center) and the midrise student housing at Lindsey & Jenkins.  After that I have heard the following but am not certain:
- New student housing south of Lindsey (where the quads are north of the dorms)
- New student health center replacing Goddard at Elm & Brooks
- Remodel of GL Cross/Richardson Halls into new science quad on the south oval
- Remodel of Bizzell Library
- Remodel of Dale Hall to match look of Gaylord across the oval on Lindsey
- New parking garage at Jenkins & Page
- New engineering/technology building at Jenkins & Brooks (NE corner)
- Expansion at Oklahoma Memorial Stadium

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## Jared6

Expansion at Oklahoma Memorial Stadium 

I can tell you that is not on the short list.

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## Andrew4OU

> I'll take some pics soon.  Collings Hall looks finished.  Gould Hall is almost finished (landscaping underway).  Zarrow Hall is wrapping up on the exterior.  The art museum addition is finishing up.  The south campus energy plant is progressing nicely.  
> 
> Looks like the next round of construction will be the aquatics center (which will connect to the Huffman Center) and the midrise student housing at Lindsey & Jenkins.  After that I have heard the following but am not certain:
> - New student housing south of Lindsey (where the quads are north of the dorms)
> - New student health center replacing Goddard at Elm & Brooks
> - Remodel of GL Cross/Richardson Halls into new science quad on the south oval
> - Remodel of Bizzell Library
> - Remodel of Dale Hall to match look of Gaylord across the oval on Lindsey
> - New parking garage at Jenkins & Page
> ...


Interesting list.  It would be impressive to see Dale Hall remodeled to match Gaylord.  Collings Hall is finished.  I had a class there last semester.  They made some nice additions, but it's remodel is nowhere near the calibre of what I thought it'd be.

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## ChargerAg

Any idea when the aquatics center is supposed to start?

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## YO MUDA

Are they going to knock down the ugly Landscape Dept biulding north of Huff? Looks like an old stable and full of asbestos.

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## ou48A

KFOR ch4 has been showing helicopter shots of the O’Connell’s demolition.

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## ou48A

> Are they going to knock down the ugly Landscape Dept biulding north of Huff? Looks like an old stable and full of asbestos.


That building does need to go.

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## BG918

> That building does need to go.


I don't think there are any plans for that building.  It will continue to be used by OU maintenance/landscaping.

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## soonerliberal

> I don't think there are any plans for that building.  It will continue to be used by OU maintenance/landscaping.


A short term solution would be to do some heavy planting of trees and bushes to mask the building on most sides.

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## YO MUDA

That biulding is full of asbestes. Broken tiles on the floor, and a sign on the exaust fan on the ceiling. "Do not turn on due to asbestes"
 On another subject, I was told they are going to demolish the 100 block of Krettli apartments due to outdated electrics and air/heat issues. I do not know the time frame.

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## YO MUDA

> A short term solution would be to do some heavy planting of trees and bushes to mask the building on most sides.


Dont think thats going to happen, but they are planting between 70 and 80 trees Monday at Krettli and Gymnatics.

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## dankrutka

This is what's replacing O'Connell's:
http://newsok.com/feed/ou-regents-ap..._headline_news

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## kevinpate

> ... 
>  On another subject, I was told they are going to demolish the 100 block of Krettli apartments due to outdated electrics and air/heat issues. I do not know the time frame.


The sooner, the better.  Those were a bit sketchy 25 years ago.

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## bombermwc

Very nice  :Smile:

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## YO MUDA

Any idea what they are going to do with the land south of the duck pond where the mosque was torn down?

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## BG918

> Any idea what they are going to do with the land south of the duck pond where the mosque was torn down?


It will be a new, larger mosque.

http://routes.ou.edu/story.php?storyID=348

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## YO MUDA

Thank you BG.

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## Spartan

As for the old O'Connells, it's amazing...finally some housing at OU that looks like it will last longer than 20 years, but I could be wrong.

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## YO MUDA

I wish they would have designed all the new biuldings like the old library, or Evans Hall.

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## CuatrodeMayo

> As for the old O'Connells, it's amazing...finally some housing at OU that looks like it will last longer than 20 years, but I could be wrong.


You aren't.  This is going to be a 100-year building.

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## BG918

> As for the old O'Connells, it's amazing...finally some housing at OU that looks like it will last longer than 20 years, but I could be wrong.


Hopefully this is the first phase of a larger plan to replace the Cate Center housing south of Lindsey with similar buildings in a similar style.

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## Spartan

I could see that, with the way that the South Oval is certainly getting an upgrade all around. I used to almost have to close my eyes when I was walking to a class there...it's like the center of the universe for awful architecture.

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## YO MUDA

Has anyone besides me heard a rumor that they are going to connect IMHOF to Constitution?

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## BoulderSooner

> Has anyone besides me heard a rumor that they are going to connect IMHOF to Constitution?


what do you mean with a curve?  ..

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## kevinpate

Had not heard that before.  Not a bad idea though.

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## YO MUDA

I was told (by no one offically) that once the 100 block of Kratlli Apartments are gone, Imhoff will curve to the NE, just past Gymnatics and tie into a widend Constitution.

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## BoulderSooner

> I was told (by no one offically) that once the 100 block of Kratlli Apartments are gone, Imhoff will curve to the NE, just past Gymnatics and tie into a widend Constitution.


interesting .. that would be cool ... having those 2 intersections that close doesn't make much sense ..

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## Martin

regarding the new central plant... is the plan to move the existing physical plant to this new location near the huston huffman? -M

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## BG918

> regarding the new central plant... is the plan to move the existing physical plant to this new location near the huston huffman? -M


The one on Jenkins?  It will remain and still be the main central plant for the campus.  The new south central plant will allow OU to construct more buildings since they are currently nearly maxed out with the existing plant.  It is also a key component of the Huffman expansion/aquatics center.

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## Martin

that's the one.  thanks for the info! -M

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## YO MUDA

Any timeframe on when the new aquatics center will break ground?

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## Andrew4OU

> Any timeframe on when the new aquatics center will break ground?


Unfortunately, it's been put on hold indefinitely.

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## BG918

> Unfortunately, it's been put on hold indefinitely.


I know they are still working on fundraising for it.  The central plant has to be complete before they can build the aquatics center or the new Sooner Center dorms.

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## Pete

The regents just approved (May 2011) a new Capital Project Plan.

The way they list things out, it's hard to tell what is complete, what's under construction and what has yet to commence.

These are fully funded projects below...  Can anyone comment on the status (i.e. yet to start, under construction or complete)?

Wellness & Fitness (Aquatics) Center $38.5 million
Huston Huffman addition and locker room renovation $10 million
Student housing renovation $111 million (I know they've done some work but is it complete?)
Research Campus buildings #4 & #5 $39 & $27 million
Utility Plant #4 $72 million
Hester Hall renovation $6 million


Also, in case you weren't aware, Gould Hall is relatively complete and they are starting to move back into it.  And Zarrow Hall is pretty much finished as well.

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## ou48A

I drove by Gould Hall Friday. It’s a complete transformation from the old ugly eye sore that was the most embarrassing building on campus.
 I would encourage all of you who care about OU to check it out.
I love the new arched entry way.
The only thing I saw on my drive by that I didn’t like was the silver panted hand rails.
 A coat of black paint would make them look much better.
I saw a road maintainer spreading out large DIA gravel at the old O’Connell’s location. 
I took an out of state visitor to the Switzer center. It was not very well air conditioned.
I was ok but my older guest was not very comfortable.

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## dankrutka

Gould Hall is a huge disappointment in my opinion. A very bland design for a school of architecture. I've been very disappointed since the first renderings...

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## okcfollower

So the new pool is fully funded? Any idea when it will be starting?

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## Pete

I think the whole design idea of Gould Hall was to draw people in, and have them move through the arches and into the ground-floor galleries and courtyard.  They will be displaying a lot of the student projects (and other works) and those will be very cool to see.

I agree that the outside seems a bit bland but I'll reserve judgment until everything is finished and I can actually walk through it.  I know it will feature some very forward thinking elements.


I've been incredibly impressed with virtually every other OU project of late from architecture to landscaping and gardens and especially the interiors. I love to spend time just walking through the campus and buildings...  There are so many beautiful spots to take in.   And the sheer volume of construction, change and improvement is staggering.

People generally acknowledge that Boren has done a great job down there but the improvement has been so steady over such a long period -- involving around 50 different projects rather than a few, huge ones -- that I doubt many really understand the scope.  Over a billion dollars has been spent on that campus in the last 10-15 years!  And it's be done on projects like Gould and Zarrow, about $10 to $50 million a throw.

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## swilki

> Gould Hall is a huge disappointment in my opinion. A very bland design for a school of architecture. I've been very disappointed since the first renderings...


Agreed. But it is still a hell of a lot better than that abomination of a building I use to walk by everyday while at OU.

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## ChargerAg

Are there any renderings of what the new aquatics center would looks like?

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## ljbab728

> Are there any renderings of what the new aquatics center would looks like?


http://www.craftontull.com/index.php...udent-aquatics

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## ou48A

http://normantranscript.com/local/x9...-to-cost-45-5M

ARDMORE — The Sooner Center student housing project is expected to cost $45.5 million to build, according to a revised guaranteed maximum approved Wednesday by the University of Oklahoma Board of Regents. 

The dormitory, which will house OU student athletes and non-athletes, will be built near the corner of Lindsey Street and Jenkins Avenue.  

The center will house about 380 students in two- and four-bed units. It also will have a faculty-in-residence unit, a central dining area, computer labs and other features.

An updated “cumulative” guaranteed maximum price is scheduled to be presented to the board in its September meeting. 

The OU regents also approved renovation projects for Cate Center, the Max Westheimer Airport, a lecture hall in the Physical Sciences building that’s among the largest on the Norman campus and at the University Club inside the Oklahoma Memorial Union.

Cate Center Building No. 1 at Lindsey Street and Asp Avenue is a former dormitory that will be converted into classrooms and conference rooms and faculty and staff offices for the economics department, Honors College and Advising Center. The project is budgeted at $4.4 million. 

The airport’s south portion of the main apron and hangar area will be rebuilt and improved for $1.7 million, and construction for the Lecture Hall 201 in the Physical Sciences building is budgeted at nearly $4 million. 

Plans to renovate the University Club are just beginning, starting with the hiring Wednesday of Merriman Associates/Architects from Dallas.

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## BG918

Piers and grade beams are currently being poured at the Sooner Center site with the slab to follow in the coming weeks.  By the end of the year there could be 6 floors of steel rising at Lindsey & Jenkins.  It will be exciting to watch during football season, and will be very visible to most OU fans going to games.

It will be interesting to see what takes up the retail spaces at street level.  Hopefully something better than Subway..

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## soonerfan_in_okc

I went inside the new Social work building to deliver some paper work (i am a SW major), and let me tell you, the building is amazing! Such an upgrade.  And one of the faculty members told me that we are going to be getting a fountain in the entrance, because another building on campus is replacing theirs with a new one, so we are going to recieve the old fountain.  

Also, anyone know what is going on with Dale hall tower? It looks like entire west wall is being renovated or something.

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## Pete

Regarding Dale Hall Tower, it's just a masonry repair project that will cost about $2 million and be complete in April 2012.

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## G.Walker

Saw bid today for $63M OU Biomedical & Translational Research Center, to be located at HSC, anybody know about this?

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## Pete

Didn't realize they were so close to starting that.  I need to post this in the HSC thread as well, because it's a big project:




> This project involves the construction of approximately 150,000 gross square feet for the third phase of the Stanton L. Young Biomedical Research Center.  The building will be dedicated to biomedical research, cancer, and genetics research.  The facility will house research laboratories, and research and building support spaces.  The estimated total project cost is $63,000,000

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## ou48A

A few days ago noticed the foundation for Sam Bradford’s Heisman statue has been build but I also noticed something new being built on the SE side of the football stadium. Driving by it looked like it had a foundation of about 8’x8’ with rebar showing. This was just a few feet west of Jenkins Street. 

Is there anyone who has a clue about what this might be? 
Thanks.

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## BoulderSooner

> A few days ago noticed the foundation for Sam Bradford’s Heisman statue has been build but I also noticed something new being built on the SE side of the football stadium. Driving by it looked like it had a foundation of about 8’x8’ with rebar showing. This was just a few feet west of Jenkins Street. 
> 
> Is there anyone who has a clue about what this might be? 
> Thanks.


don't know but i do know the long term plan is for several more statues to be built in that area along with an amatheater .. 

one of the statues will be of the selmon brothers ..

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## iMAX386

> A few days ago noticed the foundation for Sam Bradford’s Heisman statue has been build but I also noticed something new being built on the SE side of the football stadium. Driving by it looked like it had a foundation of about 8’x8’ with rebar showing. This was just a few feet west of Jenkins Street. 
> 
> Is there anyone who has a clue about what this might be? 
> Thanks.


They're putting up statues of our 100-win coaches (Owen, Wilkinson, Switzer, Stoops) on the corner of Lindsay/Jenkins.  I haven't seen it in person, but that may be what you're referring to.

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## ou48A

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...7042004&type=1


There are a few pictures on this link that show the progress on OU’s new student housing project.

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## ou48A

> They're putting up statues of our 100-win coaches (Owen, Wilkinson, Switzer, Stoops) on the corner of Lindsay/Jenkins.  I haven't seen it in person, but that may be what you're referring to.


No it wasn’t. They had torn out some concrete to access utilities. It’s all patched up now.

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## Dustin

Live webcam of Headington Hall construction.

http://129.15.200.44/home/homeJ.html

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## ljbab728

Headington Hall.jpg

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## ou48A

I recently noticed that OU has torn down an old building on the SE corner of Jenkins and Page Street. This was Rhyne Hall, it had a red tile roof.

Are there any plans for this plot of ground?

Several years ago I heard that if OU could come up with the money they would consider building a new basketball arena on this part of campus?

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## okcfollower

> I recently noticed that OU has torn down an old building on the SE corner of Jenkins and Page Street. This was Rhyne Hall, it had a red tile roof.
> 
> Are there any plans for this plot of ground?
> 
> Several years ago I heard that if OU could come up with the money they would consider building a new basketball arena on this part of campus?


Its going to be a parking lot for now. They start the work on the lot Monday, also they are getting rid of the parallel parking on the west side of the stadium along asp for a "Scholars Walk", also starting Monday.

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## HangryHippo

> Its going to be a parking lot for now. They start the work on the lot Monday, also they are getting rid of the parallel parking on the west side of the stadium along asp for a "Scholars Walk", also starting Monday.


I've seen little regarding the Scholars Walk.  Where did you see that it is starting Monday?

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## Spartan

I wish they hadn't torn down Rhyne.

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## HangryHippo

> I wish they hadn't torn down Rhyne.


Spartan, as you seem to regularly be in the know, have you seen any conceptual designs for the Scholars Walk at OU?  Everything I've found indicates that it's still fairly in the design phase, but I'm curious.

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## ljbab728

http://newsok.com/university-of-okla...line_education

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## HangryHippo

Surely, just as soon as I ask about it...  This is in today's Transcript:

http://normantranscript.com/headline...ve-renovations

----------


## Pete

I love the idea of reclaiming all of the South Oval for pedestrians.

They did this with Brooks between Elm & Jenkins and that really made a big difference and I bet this will be nicer still.

That campus just keeps getting nicer and nicer.

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## ou48A

Maybe OU should line the south oval with statues of its Rhodes scholars?

----------


## Spartan

> Spartan, as you seem to regularly be in the know, have you seen any conceptual designs for the Scholars Walk at OU?  Everything I've found indicates that it's still fairly in the design phase, but I'm curious.


Well I appreciate the compliment, but I'm actually pretty ignorant about a Scholars Walk. I do know that they had some interesting plans for the Lindsey crossing, potentially coinciding with redevelopment on the Cate Center site, and perhaps this could be bookending that end of the South Oval. Just an idea.

----------


## ou48A

This helps. It gets the attention of others particularly in this economy.
http://www.news9.com/story/18884130/...onations-gifts

Posted: Jun 26, 2012 12:50 PM CDT Updated: Jun 26, 2012 12:50 PM CDT 

By Associated Press
ARDMORE, Oklahoma - 
University of Oklahoma President David Boren says the university expects to receive more than $140 million in private donations and gifts by the end of the fiscal year.

Boren told the OU Board of Regents meeting in Ardmore Tuesday that projections are for $141.2 million -- including gifts to OU's scholarship program and funding for Headington Hall. The residential hall is a housing project for students and athletes at OU.

The regents are also scheduled to discuss the proposed Radar Innovations Laboratory on the school's main campus in Norman. The planned center would provide space for radar researchers to design, assemble and test radar system components. It would house up to 20 researchers and 60 graduate students.

----------


## YO MUDA

Fence is going up around 100 block of Krattlii apartments, asbestes crew are removing tiles. Wont be long before the wrecking ball makes them dissapear. New electric boxes are being installed thuout the rest of Krattlii. They busted a non potable water line today, even though it was marked and flagged. Kinda hard to keep plants alive without water....DOH!

----------


## dankrutka

> Fence is going up around 100 block of Krattlii apartments, asbestes crew are removing tiles. Wont be long before the wrecking ball makes them dissapear. New electric boxes are being installed thuout the rest of Krattlii. They busted a non potable water line today, even though it was marked and flagged. Kinda hard to keep plants alive without water....DOH!


These are the apartments south of campus, correct? Are they all being demolished, and why? Are there plans for that area?

----------


## ou48A

The Karettli apartment are on the northeast side of the LNC.
They were dumps. Its good to hear they are being torn down.
And yes, what are the plans for this land?

----------


## dankrutka

Okay. I couldn't figure out whether these were the ones you could see from Lloyd a noble, or the ones a little further north. They definitely were nice. This would be a great location for OU to bring in a private developer for some nice condos or apartments...

----------


## BoulderSooner

> The Karettli apartment are on the northeast side of the LNC.
> They were dumps. Its good to hear they are being torn down.
> And yes, what are the plans for this land?


i believe that those at one time were married student housing ... and i think the plan is to build new married student housing

----------


## ou48A

> i believe that those at one time were married student housing ... and i think the plan is to build new married student housing


They were married student housing at one time.
 I have relatives that lived there back when the LNC first opened up.
At the time they seemed fairly nice. 

But I like the idea of high end condos $ 350,000 + someplace around OU’s campus. 
Now if I could just talk the wife into the idea.

----------


## mcca7596

The only students I ever saw get on or off the bus at the Krattli Apartments when I went to OU in 08-10 were international students.

----------


## YO MUDA

Mostly for married international students with children. The electrical and heat & air were in need of replacement, along with roof work. Would cost more to repair than they were worth.
 Ive heard they will make a bigger parking lot for the Gymnatics. Also been hearing for years the city and OU would ike to connect Imhoff to Constitution, thus doing away with the signal lights at Jenkins and Imhoff. But thats just a rumor.

----------


## Timing

Anybody has updates on the Kraettli apartments? I'm curious to know. I lived there when I was a student at OU, it's not as nice as the new ones, but the rent was a lot of cheaper with all billed paid.

----------


## YO MUDA

Timing, the brick apartments are being renovated while the south 2 biulding ( north of Lloyd Noble) are coming down piece by piece as we speak.

----------


## Timing

> Timing, the brick apartments are being renovated while the south 2 biulding ( north of Lloyd Noble) are coming down piece by piece as we speak.


Thank you for your reply. 
Do you know what the university will do with that space? (the south 2 buildings)? It's too small to build another apartment complex. 
The rest of Kraettli needs major renovation too. I miss the days when I lived there, a lot of trees, OU marching band, tennis court, sweet memories.

----------


## YO MUDA

Ive heard they will biuld a much needed parking area for the Gymnatics. Ive also heard for about 6 years now, they are wanting to merge Imhoff with Constitution. I guess we'll wait and see.
Jimi

----------


## ou48A

This link explains and shows what OU’s new on campus rowing facility will look like

OU Rowing Training Center Approved - SoonerSports.com - Official Athletics Site of the Oklahoma Sooners

----------


## zacelliott

The apartments are now gone, down to dirt at this point. Call me naive since i've never been to the gymnastics facility except just in passing, but why build a separate lot just for that building? Why not just use the LNC parking lot and have people walk across the street? Baseball seems to have no problem doing that. I'd much rather see them merge Imhoff and Constitution.

----------


## catch22

> The apartments are now gone, down to dirt at this point. Call me naive since i've never been to the gymnastics facility except just in passing, but why build a separate lot just for that building? Why not just use the LNC parking lot and have people walk across the street? Baseball seems to have no problem doing that. I'd much rather see them merge Imhoff and Constitution.


Because in Oklahoma, people are unwilling to walk any distance at all.

I have seen people sit in their car for 5 minutes on someone to pull out of a front row parking spot, when 60 feet away (6 spots down) there were several empty spots. I see it often.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> The apartments are now gone, down to dirt at this point. Call me naive since i've never been to the gymnastics facility except just in passing, but why build a separate lot just for that building? Why not just use the LNC parking lot and have people walk across the street? Baseball seems to have no problem doing that. I'd much rather see them merge Imhoff and Constitution.


baseball players don't do that   they park at the LNC ...

the gymnastics facility is not for events it is for practice ... and when you are recruiting you want to make things as nice as possible

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Because in Oklahoma, people are unwilling to walk any distance at all.
> 
> I have seen people sit in their car for 5 minutes on someone to pull out of a front row parking spot, when 60 feet away (6 spots down) there were several empty spots. I see it often.


The other day here at OCCC I went to my car and this other car followed me to see where I parked and I had one of the closest parking spaces you could get, I had get some things sorted before I drove off, and after 15-20 mins, this guy was still still waiting for (I KID YOU NOT!). When pulled out he flipped me the bird and said something and floored the gas and flew into the parking space in a very displeased manner. There was an open spot four, I repeat FOUR, parking spaces down from me.

----------


## kevinpate

> The other day here at OCCC I went to my car and this other car followed me to see where I parked and I had one of the closest parking spaces you could get, I had get some things sorted before I drove off, and after 15-20 mins, this guy was still still waiting for (I KID YOU NOT!). When pulled out he flipped me the bird and said something and floored the gas and flew into the parking space in a very displeased manner. There was an open spot four, I repeat FOUR, parking spaces down from me.



But, but, but, he patiently stalked his prey, waited for the right moment, and killed it. Therefore, in his overjoyed mind, he had won his quest. Had he taken the hole just four spots down, he might of had to, horror of horrors, endure the smirk of another over stressed hunter, ever so pleased with himself that he had bagged the better prey, and with fewer steps afterwards on is way to braggartville.

Yeah, it's silly, but whatcha gonna do..

----------


## ljbab728

> But, but, but, he patiently stalked his prey, waited for the right moment, and killed it. Therefore, in his overjoyed mind, he had won his quest. Had he taken the hole just four spots down, he might of had to, horror of horrors, endure the smirk of another over stressed hunter, ever so pleased with himself that he had bagged the better prey, and with fewer steps afterwards on is way to braggartville.
> 
> Yeah, it's silly, but whatcha gonna do..


You're exactly right.  It's best to just laugh it off and go on.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> But, but, but, he patiently stalked his prey, waited for the right moment, and killed it. Therefore, in his overjoyed mind, he had won his quest. Had he taken the hole just four spots down, he might of had to, horror of horrors, endure the smirk of another over stressed hunter, ever so pleased with himself that he had bagged the better prey, and with fewer steps afterwards on is way to braggartville.
> 
> Yeah, it's silly, but whatcha gonna do..


I hear ya lol  :Stick Out Tongue:  . . . I wasn't angry at all, I was just kind of in shock. I mean 20mins!?!?!?! lol. . . I think it just became an issue of prinicple for this guy or something, maybe he thought I was just trying to piss him off (which I wasn't) and just wanted to prove a point O_o

----------


## blink

> Because in Oklahoma, people are unwilling to walk any distance at all.
> 
> I have seen people sit in their car for 5 minutes on someone to pull out of a front row parking spot, when 60 feet away (6 spots down) there were several empty spots. I see it often.


This is so true.  It drives me crazy.  I notice this during the holiday season, particularly at Penn Square Mall.  Half the reason the parking lot is so busy is people are so unwilling to simply park in the lot by the bank/Cheesecake Factory and other areas far out, so they drive around over and over until they find that close spot (god forbid anyone actually walks a little bit).

----------


## gamecock

> But, but, but, he patiently stalked his prey, waited for the right moment, and killed it. Therefore, in his overjoyed mind, he had won his quest. Had he taken the hole just four spots down, he might of had to, horror of horrors, endure the smirk of another over stressed hunter, ever so pleased with himself that he had bagged the better prey, and with fewer steps afterwards on is way to braggartville.
> 
> Yeah, it's silly, but whatcha gonna do..


I agree that it's crazy and that people should walk. On the other hand, if I see someone waiting for my space, and I know I'm not going to be leaving for 15 minutes, I would politely signal to them to keep looking. And, you never know, they may have difficulty walking even if they aren't handicapped.

----------


## ou48A

> The apartments are now gone, down to dirt at this point. Call me naive since i've never been to the gymnastics facility except just in passing, but why build a separate lot just for that building? Why not just use the LNC parking lot and have people walk across the street? *Baseball seems to have no problem doing that*.


I attend most home OU baseball games… The OU baseball players, coaches, and staff have their own on-site parking.
 They do not park at the LNC, but fans do.

The problem for the Gymnastics people is that when the LNC parking lot is full there isn’t enough parking for everyone who uses the gymnastic training facility.They also need a secure area for parking while they are on the road.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> I agree that it's crazy and that people should walk. On the other hand, if I see someone waiting for my space, and I know I'm not going to be leaving for 15 minutes, I would politely signal to them to keep looking. And, you never know, they may have difficulty walking even if they aren't handicapped.


Well, I didn't know the guy was still waiting for me until I backed out.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## YO MUDA

Noticed today demolition of 3 house on Jenkins and Farmer. 1 brick house left still looks occupied, but im sure its gonna go too. Also OU purchased 2 houses on Page street and Trout, nw and sw corners.

----------


## ou48A

> Noticed today demolition of 3 house on Jenkins and Farmer. 1 brick house left still looks occupied, but im sure its gonna go too. Also OU purchased 2 houses on Page street and Trout, nw and sw corners.


I saw that Monday.

Over the past several years it has become apparent that OU is gradually buying up as many of these old properties as they can and as they naturally become available, which is much smarter than going through the eminent domain process.

I would guess that anything west of the Railroad tracks, North of E. Constitution, West of Jenkins, and south of Boyd would be strong candidates for eventual OU purchase.

An area north of Boyd just north of the Energy Center could also be on the list? With an elevated walk way across Boyd this would be a good location for a large parking garage.

----------


## HangryHippo

This is a very cool program that OU has that appears to be doing well.  I wouldn't mind seeing our state universities team up and open a combined office somewhere in downtown OKC.  OSU has a very similar program that appears to be even more successful than OU's center, and together, they'd be an awesome resource for downtown OKC.

----------


## BoulderSooner

OU is turning the Bud Wilkinson house into the new home of the Athletic Academic servies  and the old dining hall into a banquet space/study hall room 

31 Bud Wilkinson House/Wagner Dining Hall Renovation: A study has been
undertaken to assess the viability of repurposing these two buildings for other
functions upon the relocation of student housing and dining to Headington Hall.
The Athletic Academic Services program is proposed to be relocated from the
second floor of the Gaylord Family-Oklahoma Memorial Stadium into Bud
Wilkinson House. The existing 29,650 square foot building would be expanded to
approximately 42,000 square feet to accommodate the program’s current and future
academic needs. The facility would also feature a central stairway and elevator,
new faade, and upgrades to restrooms and mechanical and electrical systems.
Wagner Dining Hall is proposed to be renovated into a banquet facility for use by
the University O-Club and would also serve as a central study hall for student
athletes. The remodel would include new interior finishes in the dining area, new
equipment designed for catered events in the kitchen, new restrooms, and new
mechanical and electrical systems. The estimated total project cost is $14,000,000.
Funding for preliminary planning has been identified from Athletics Department
sources.


i would guess jones will be torn down

----------


## BoulderSooner

plus agenda item 18 a new master plan for the LNC 

ISSUE: LLOYD NOBLE CENTER MASTER PLAN – NC
ACTION PROPOSED:
President Boren recommends the Board of Regents:
I. Rank in the order presented below architectural firms under consideration to
provide professional services required for a master plan for the Lloyd Noble
Center and for improvements at the facility;
II. Authorize the University administration to negotiate the terms of an agreement
and a fee for these professional services, starting with the highest-ranked firm;
and
III. Authorize the President or his designee to execute the consultant contract.
BACKGROUND AND/OR RATIONALE:
The Lloyd Noble Center was constructed in 1975 with a major building addition
constructed in 2002. Current building area totals approximately 264,000 gross square feet. The
need has been identified for a comprehensive master plan for facility-wide improvements. The
master planning effort will require the services of an architectural consultant to provide
programming and to assist in the development of a comprehensive program. As funding is
available and improvements projects are approved and implemented, the selected consultant will
be requested to provide professional services for project design, construction documents and
construction administration

----------


## CuatrodeMayo

> plus agenda item 18 a new master plan for the LNC 
> 
> ISSUE: LLOYD NOBLE CENTER MASTER PLAN – NC
> ACTION PROPOSED:
> President Boren recommends the Board of Regents:
> I. Rank in the order presented below architectural firms under consideration to
> provide professional services required for a master plan for the Lloyd Noble
> Center and for improvements at the facility;
> II. Authorize the University administration to negotiate the terms of an agreement
> ...


Looks like I'll be working on this project...

----------


## MikeLucky

> Looks like I'll be working on this project...


So, are we talking lipstick on pig type scope... or more like raise the roof, gut, and build straight up type scope?

----------


## Pete

I think 2002 was a re-freshening of the LNC and now they will be looking at major changes to the arena itself.

Not sure about raising the roof but I bet they'll reconfigure the bowl so that seating is more like a gym and less like a concert venue.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Looks like I'll be working on this project...


great ...    from the peanut gallery suggestions include  

a. some box/suites   like the ones at the Mabee Center  at either the top of the lower level or the bottom of the upper level 

b.  remove the Wall on the student end (at the minimum)

c. "square" the seating   like they did at the erwin center (ut basketball)

----------


## ou48A

I would have rather had a new arena but this is likely a much cheaper option.
I suppose what OU does will depend on how much money is available / donated.
I hope OU doesn’t drag out the construction for several years like they have with the baseball stadium.

----------


## Pete

Good point about the suites...  You can bet that will be included because they are massive money-makers.

----------


## dankrutka

> I would have rather had a new arena but this is likely a much cheaper option.
> I suppose what OU does will depend on how much money is available / donated.
> I hope OU doesnt drag out the construction for several years like they have with the baseball stadium.


I know this would be more expensive, but I'd rather see them raise more money and put the arena on the south side of the football stadium where the football practice fields are located. Those fields could be put north of the football practice facility if a parking garage is built to replace that massive parking lot. That's my master plan that's not happening...

----------


## ou48A

> I know this would be more expensive, but I'd rather see them raise more money and put the arena on the south side of the football stadium where the football practice fields are located. Those fields could be put north of the football practice facility if a parking garage is built to replace that massive parking lot. That's my master plan that's not happening...


In the next few years if OU built a new arena I would favor a location north east of the football stadium in the area where OU has already been gradually buying up property’s.

This would be very close to the planed OU commuter rail and bus station. It would be within reasonable walking distance for most students.
Any parking improvements would be able to be used nearly every day and would help fans who attend football games and other events.
Obviously OU doesn’t have a large donor for this type of project and is going with a cheaper option.
Eventually OU will need part of the practice field land to enclose the south end zone.

----------


## adaniel

Wasn't there a lot of talk about renovating the Field House north of the stadium into an arena?

----------


## Pete

> Wasn't there a lot of talk about renovating the Field House north of the stadium into an arena?


No, they decided to put a bunch of money in it (which they've already done) and have it be for wrestling and volleyball.

----------


## BG918

> In the next few years if OU built a new arena I would favor a location north east of the football stadium in the area where OU has already been gradually buying up property’s.
> 
> This would be very close to the planed OU commuter rail and bus station. It would be within reasonable walking distance for most students.
> Any parking improvements would be able to be used nearly every day and would help fans who attend football games and other events.
> Obviously OU doesn’t have a large donor for this type of project and is going with a cheaper option.
> Eventually OU will need part of the practice field land to enclose the south end zone.


This is the best plan I've heard.  I don't think it will happen anytime in the short term but could be part of a bigger athletics project involving the expansion of the stadium 5-10 years down the road.

I think student housing will be the next big short term project for OU.  Once Headington Hall opens there will likely be a push to add more similar projects along Lindsey between Jenkins and Asp, and eventually replace Cate Center with a similar project in the future.  Building up the research campus will also be a priority with more office buildings constructed, especially if the GE Energy research center is built there.

----------


## Geographer

I can definitely assure you at OU will not be replacing Lloyd Noble anytime soon, its an unfortunate truth.

I don't believe replacing Cate will happen anytime soon either since they have been in the process of gutting and renovating the interiors of each cate building the last couple of years.

----------


## SoonerDave

Not surprised that LNC is getting overhauled; don't there would have been the 2002-era rehab had their been any plans to build an entirely new facility. 

Just in my little knothole, I'm still wanting to see OU redo the press box at Oklahoma Memorial Stadium. Its a nearly 40-year-old facility that was state of the art in its day, but from everything I've read, its in serious need of overhaul. One plan I heard was to raze the existing structure, then rebuild a new facility that would run the width of the west deck, including a combination of media facilities and high-roller suites. This was on tap just before the recession, haven't heard any new notions of subsequent plans...

----------


## Geographer

> Not surprised that LNC is getting overhauled; don't there would have been the 2002-era rehab had their been any plans to build an entirely new facility. 
> 
> Just in my little knothole, I'm still wanting to see OU redo the press box at Oklahoma Memorial Stadium. Its a nearly 40-year-old facility that was state of the art in its day, but from everything I've read, its in serious need of overhaul. One plan I heard was to raze the existing structure, then rebuild a new facility that would run the width of the west deck, including a combination of media facilities and high-roller suites. This was on tap just before the recession, haven't heard any new notions of subsequent plans...



There are plans to renovate the press box, but not completely tear down and rebuild the structure.

----------


## SoonerDave

> There are plans to renovate the press box, but not completely tear down and rebuild the structure.


Could you expand on that? If you've got some good source material or links, that'd be awesome. Must say I'm not thrilled with a facelift, however. I guess they scrapped plans for the full rebuild?

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Could you expand on that? If you've got some good source material or links, that'd be awesome. Must say I'm not thrilled with a facelift, however. I guess they scrapped plans for the full rebuild?


i have heard that the full rebuild is still on the table ..  it will all depend on how much money they can raise

----------


## SoonerDave

> i have heard that the full rebuild is still on the table ..  it will all depend on how much money they can raise


That's sure closer to what I have heard, Boulder. I guess a facelift is possible, but man it seems like a curious expenditure of money on an older structure. 

I remember the press box issue being part of the stadium Master Plan from several years ago, if I'm not mistaken, and they were planning on rolling ahead when the economy went in the toilet and the monies dried up. I recall Joe C saying something to the effect of saying they'll go back to the project "when it makes financial sense" or words to that effect. The biggest issue I recall in planning were the additional expense associated with the complicated logistics of getting cranes and other heavy construction equipment into the stadium area given the presence of the parking garage. Oh, well, guess it will get done whenever it gets done. Seems like that's the last big piece to the puzzle for OMS for a while to come, as I really don't see them "bowling the corners" as many have commented any time soon.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> That's sure closer to what I have heard, Boulder. I guess a facelift is possible, but man it seems like a curious expenditure of money on an older structure. 
> 
> I remember the press box issue being part of the stadium Master Plan from several years ago, if I'm not mistaken, and they were planning on rolling ahead when the economy went in the toilet and the monies dried up. I recall Joe C saying something to the effect of saying they'll go back to the project "when it makes financial sense" or words to that effect. The biggest issue I recall in planning were the additional expense associated with the complicated logistics of getting cranes and other heavy construction equipment into the stadium area given the presence of the parking garage. Oh, well, guess it will get done whenever it gets done. Seems like that's the last big piece to the puzzle for OMS for a while to come, as I really don't see them "bowling the corners" as many have commented any time soon.


the numbers were around at one time ...   the full redo of the west deck .. moving the press box to the top suites row .... and adding a club level  would add 100-200 seats to the stadium .. but would generate lots of new revenue because of the new club level seats and extra suites

----------


## SoonerDave

> the numbers were around at one time ...   the full redo of the west deck .. moving the press box to the top suites row .... and adding a club level  would add 100-200 seats to the stadium .. *but would generate lots of new revenue because of the new club level seats and extra suites*


Exactly. I wish someone in the broader sports media could ask Joe C about this project in particular, if for no other reason than to satisfy my curiosity. I mean, isn't that good enough reason?  :Smile:  

All kidding aside, I'd like to hear the status of that project (dead, delayed, or otherwise) from Joe C. I heard Stoops make overtures in this direction a few months back (commenting about the state of the press box at OMS), and thought surely that was the first volley in a campaign to get that project going - but it never went anywhere.

Surely there are some reporter types that lurk on this board and might come across this question, and could solicit a response from Joe C on it...I mean, its not like it would be some double-secret thing  :Smile:  If the economy is picking up, surely the folks in the AD's office have a pretty good feel for the "temperature of the water" as it were for a project like this.

----------


## BG918

They might as well wait until they have adequate funding to do the west side right, and remove the entire existing press box and suites and then rebuild a new structure along the entire length of the west upper deck that has suites and a press level, probably 3 stories tall with glass to match the suites on the east side and a new brick facade over the entire west side.  When you look at what schools like Nebraska and A&M are doing this would be considered a small project compared to major projects they have either under construction or planned.

And the upgrades to Cate Center were because they turned part of the complex into offices, and the window upgrades were 40 years past due.  I wouldn't doubt that if they can configure that site to hold more students in higher rent units then OU will readily bulldoze those buildings, especially if they can also make it a mixed-use project with retail along Lindsey (similar to what they're doing with Headington Hall but more extensive).  I do think they would infill the parking lot between Jenkins and Asp first.

----------


## BoulderSooner

i think they are talking about removing the entire west deck .. (not just the press box) .. and rebuilding it to match the east side

----------


## SoonerDave

> i think they are talking about removing the entire west deck .. (not just the press box) .. and rebuilding it to match the east side


Wow...Now I had *not* heard that one, Boulder. That's a _monumental_ project that almost certainly couldn't be done in one off-season - heck, the demo on the existing structure would take up half that much time by itself. There'd be a ton of displaced season ticket holders for at least one season, to say nothing of the very high additional cost, combined with the fact that a true match with the east side would almost certainly result in a _reduction_ in total seating capacity. I know the construction on the east side took one entire season to finish (during 2002), so it almost makes me suspect it might take two full football seasons to demo the existing deck, build a new twin-deck like the east side, _and_ have a new pressbox atop it all. Wow.

See, that's why we need Joe C to come out and tell us what his "vision" is. Certainly he knows what he wants to do  :Smile:

----------


## BoulderSooner

The press box wouldn't be on top it would be part of the top club level.  Ie below the top deck.  And with the right schedule it could be done I believe in one off season.      

Not saying that is what will happen.  But I know it has been talked about

----------


## SoonerDave

> The press box wouldn't be on top it would be part of the top club level.  Ie below the top deck.  And with the right schedule it could be done I believe in one off season.      
> 
> Not saying that is what will happen.  But I know it has been talked about


Ahhh, okay, I gotcha. It would be incredibly tight, but they  might be able to pull it off. The time to demo the existing structure would be the 800 lb gorilla to me.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Ahhh, okay, I gotcha. It would be incredibly tight, but they  might be able to pull it off. The time to demo the existing structure would be the 800 lb gorilla to me.


no doubt .. it would be interesting to see if they could use/reuse some of the substructure .. or if they would have to demo to the ground ..

----------


## dankrutka

Pretty sure, but not positive, K-State just demolished and is re-building an entire side of their stadium in one off season.

----------


## BG918

> Pretty sure, but not positive, K-State just demolished and is re-building an entire side of their stadium in one off season.


Nebraska is doing the same thing, among other schools.  It can be done, but it does cost more $$$.

----------


## Spartan

K-State needs a new stadium.

Michigan just totally renovated theirs.

----------


## SoonerDave

> K-State needs a new stadium.
> 
> Michigan just totally renovated theirs.


Think some wealthy benefactor threw a whole pile of money at KSU to rebuild one portion of their stadium a few years back, so I doubt a new facility is on the horizon right now..in fact, the structure of their renovation was very much a template for the way OU built the new east stands a few years ago.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Think some wealthy benefactor threw a whole pile of money at KSU to rebuild one portion of their stadium a few years back, so I doubt a new facility is on the horizon right now..in fact, the structure of their renovation was very much a template for the way OU built the new east stands a few years ago.


and kstate is in the middle of another multi phase renovation

----------


## TAlan CB

Visited family that live next to Texas A&M.  Last time I visited was 3 years ago - massive change.  Talking to my uncle who use to teach there - and keeps up with what's going on - and he said they are undergoing a massive build up.  The engr. schools are expecting to add 25,000 students in the next 5 years, growing the school from 50,000 - to 75,000.  What  I want to know is how all these schools are growing so much when tuition is getting to the point where people are seriously thinking about alternatives to college?

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## venture

> Visited family that live next to Texas A&M.  Last time I visited was 3 years ago - massive change.  Talking to my uncle who use to teach there - and keeps up with what's going on - and he said they are undergoing a massive build up.  The engr. schools are expecting to add 25,000 students in the next 5 years, growing the school from 50,000 - to 75,000.  What  I want to know is how all these schools are growing so much when tuition is getting to the point where people are seriously thinking about alternatives to college?


The only way to fix tuition is for the Fed to come in and cut back on what the max loans they will hand out are. The problem is all the school administrators look at the stafford loans as free money so they hike tuitions to get as much of it as possible. The cost for education in this country is just messed up. At some point it'll snap back and administrators will get a wake up call of "what do you mean we are only going to take in half what we did last year."

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## dankrutka

From today:

image.jpg

Headington Hall looks great. Huge presence on that corner.

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## BoulderSooner

> The only way to fix tuition is for the Fed to come in and cut back on what the max loans they will hand out are. The problem is all the school administrators look at the stafford loans as free money so they hike tuitions to get as much of it as possible. The cost for education in this country is just messed up. At some point it'll snap back and administrators will get a wake up call of "what do you mean we are only going to take in half what we did last year."


well that and tuition doesn't cover the cost of school at most places

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## venture

> well that and tuition doesn't cover the cost of school at most places


Then they need to start operating like most businesses and get their costs in line. If their costs are so out of control that the main source of their income can't cover the costs, they should be like any other business and forced to reorganize or go out of business.

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## Snowman

> i think they are talking about removing the entire west deck .. (not just the press box) .. and rebuilding it to match the east side


I had only heard any desire of matching the seating to the other side from fans, specifically ones that were prone to knowing nothing of any details that school officials were considering.

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## BoulderSooner

> Then they need to start operating like most businesses and get their costs in line. If their costs are so out of control that the main source of their income can't cover the costs, they should be like any other business and forced to reorganize or go out of business.


well there is a pretty solid thought that higher education is in the public's interest .. thus it is subsidized .. pretty much every college in America public and private is outside of just a few ..

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## Rover

> Then they need to start operating like most businesses and get their costs in line. If their costs are so out of control that the main source of their income can't cover the costs, they should be like any other business and forced to reorganize or go out of business.


So, we should dumb down the schooling?  Increase class size?  Hire less effective and cheaper professors?  Reduce academic and other support?  Quit building new classrooms?  No more new dorms?  Quit taking care of the facilities?  Don't offer counseling?  Quit buying computers?  Don't provide space and labs for research?  Quit recruiting efforts?  etc., etc., etc.  

What costs do you think are out of line?  Just curious.

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## Dubya61

> So, we should dumb down the schooling?  Increase class size?  Hire less effective and cheaper professors?  Reduce academic and other support?  Quit building new classrooms?  No more new dorms?  Quit taking care of the facilities?  Don't offer counseling?  Quit buying computers?  Don't provide space and labs for research?  Quit recruiting efforts?  etc., etc., etc.  
> 
> What costs do you think are out of line?  Just curious.


I'd be content with a much more straightforward tuition and fee scheme.  IIRC, OU is toying with that very idea that would standardize the cost to a student from semester to semester and encourage a quicker completion.  I have always been appalled by the Anschluss of fees you can find on your Bursar's statement -- hidden costs that only the experienced student knows to expect.  Weren't you just recently stating how you wanted to see the football ticket price reduced to avoid another add-on fee?  Are you not satisfied with the entertainment value as currently priced?
Irrespective of the fee issue, venture79's argument is a very well documented point that shows how a good business will raise prices based on fund availability (supply and demand) and funds have never been more government-subsidized than in the last couple of decades.

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## Geographer

> venture79's argument is a very well documented point that shows how a good business will raise prices based on fund availability (supply and demand) and funds have never been more government-subsidized than in the last couple of decades.


I'll drink to that.  :Banghead:

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## venture

> So, we should dumb down the schooling?  Increase class size?  Hire less effective and cheaper professors?  Reduce academic and other support?  Quit building new classrooms?  No more new dorms?  Quit taking care of the facilities?  Don't offer counseling?  Quit buying computers?  Don't provide space and labs for research?  Quit recruiting efforts?  etc., etc., etc.  
> 
> What costs do you think are out of line?  Just curious.


Who said anything about dumbing it down? The rise in tuition costs for students is pretty well noted across the board. That has also happened thanks to the government now giving students somewhere around $67,000 for their first degree and another large sum for their masters. Schools see that as easy money to go after and they do.

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## Spartan

The OU campus is starting to look really good...

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## Geographer

> The OU campus is starting to look really good...


nice transition haha. My only complaint is that I wish the other Tower dorms looked like Headington Hall..it's unfortunate that the Towers were built when they were (a la Cabrini Green/Pruitt Igo) haha.

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## Rover

> Who said anything about dumbing it down? The rise in tuition costs for students is pretty well noted across the board. That has also happened thanks to the government now given students somewhere around $67,000 for their first degree and another large sum for their masters. Schools see that as easy money to go after and they do.


So, I am asking you, how do the "go after it"....by trying to educate as many students as possible?  You want them to educate fewer or in a worse way?  You said their costs were out of control, so I am asking you to justify the statement. * HOW* are they out of control?  People love to make these great generalizations without regard to fact or logic.  Which is it - costs are out of control or they are recruiting too many kids?

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## HangryHippo

> nice transition haha. My only complaint is that I wish the other Tower dorms looked like Headington Hall..it's unfortunate that the Towers were built when they were (a la Cabrini Green/Pruitt Igo) haha.


I'd really like to see a master plan for the land between Elm Ave. and Jenkins Ave. from Lindsey St. south to Timberdell Rd.  There are many buildings in this area, but I find most of them ugly outside of the Henderson Cultural Center and the new power plant that was just built.  It's not an attractive building, but it isn't going anywhere.

Obviously this is just my personal preference, but the buildings I'd like to see replaced are the Sooner Suites, the old Cross Center dorms/offices, and the dorm towers along with the Cate Center dorms/offices and the Honors College.  These are ugly buildings that do little to maximize the potential of the real estate they sit on.  

I also would like to see a serious revamp of the student housing at OU to replace the towers with something like Headington Hall.  I know they just "renovated" the towers, but honestly, it was a typical Oklahoma renovation/disappointment.  New paint and supposedly it's all better.  It was a massive waste of money.  I think it would be cool if they could have the South Oval extended through this part of campus in between the dorms.  They could then build around that.  I just really don't care for the buildings that are there now.

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## BG918

> I'd really like to see a master plan for the land between Elm Ave. and Jenkins Ave. from Lindsey St. south to Timberdell Rd.  There are many buildings in this area, but I find most of them ugly outside of the Henderson Cultural Center and the new power plant that was just built.  It's not an attractive building, but it isn't going anywhere.
> 
> Obviously this is just my personal preference, but the buildings I'd like to see replaced are the Sooner Suites, the old Cross Center dorms/offices, and the dorm towers along with the Cate Center dorms/offices and the Honors College.  These are ugly buildings that do little to maximize the potential of the real estate they sit on.  
> 
> I also would like to see a serious revamp of the student housing at OU to replace the towers with something like Headington Hall.  I know they just "renovated" the towers, but honestly, it was a typical Oklahoma renovation/disappointment.  New paint and supposedly it's all better.  It was a massive waste of money.  I think it would be cool if they could have the South Oval extended through this part of campus in between the dorms.  They could then build around that.  I just really don't care for the buildings that are there now.


I think this will happen in time.  Infill that entire area along Lindsey in between Jenkins and Elm with new student housing similar in style to Headington Hall.  Even have some streetfront retail and restaurant space along Lindsey.  And yes extend the south oval southward as a common green space between the new dorms.  The highrise towers will probably be around for awhile but I could see Cate and Cross replaced within 10 years.  There have been recent renovations in both but mainly to create additional office space and bring the buildings up to bare minimum for code-compliance.  If OU were to build an office building elsewhere on campus that would free up the space in Cate/Cross..

Anyone know the current status of renovating the Huffman Center and adding the aquatic center expansion?  That was a project that was put on hold a few years ago and hadn't heard anything new about it.  That would be another reason to build up student housing in that area since the Huffman would be literally next door with new indoor pools and a big outdoor pool area on the south side of the building (adjacent to the new utility plant).

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## dankrutka

The reason universities are struggling is because state's are cutting funding like never before. Public education should not be operated like a business because the objectives are vastly different. Bringing the business model into education has resulted in failure many times over. Our society benefits from great institutions of learning. If Oklahoma wants to be taken seriously then it should be investing in its universities, not raising tuition and making it financially unwise for students to attend college.

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## venture

> The reason universities are struggling is because state's are cutting funding like never before. Public education should not be operated like a business because the objectives are vastly different. Bringing the business model into education has resulted in failure many times over. Our society benefits from great institutions of learning. If Oklahoma wants to be taken seriously then it should be investing in its universities, not raising tuition and making it financially unwise for students to attend college.


So would you then say that public universities should be free to anyone that wants a public education? Granted anyone could go to community college and essentially have that with the current level of Pell Grants.

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## Spartan

> nice transition haha. My only complaint is that I wish the other Tower dorms looked like Headington Hall..it's unfortunate that the Towers were built when they were (a la Cabrini Green/Pruitt Igo) haha.


Yeah, OSU tore down or is tearing theirs down. Texas sure has 'em though. TCU also tore theirs down for a fabulous new res life green.

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## HangryHippo

> Yeah, OSU tore down or is tearing theirs down. Texas sure has 'em though. TCU also tore theirs down for a fabulous new res life green.


TCU's new facilities are great.  Most big universities still have them, but they're hideous and need to be torn down.

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## BG918

> Most big universities still have them, but they're hideous and need to be torn down.


Let's line Lindsey with a few Headington Hall-type student housing buildings first, and then tackle the Towers.   :Smile: 

More for the other thread, but hopefully eventually private developers will begin building their own high density student-focused housing projects north of OU in and around Campus Corner, and also east of campus closer to the tracks.  Surround the campus on three sides with high density residential and keep the academic and office functions in the core area in between.

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## Pete

> hopefully eventually private developers will begin building their own high density student-focused housing projects north of OU in and around Campus Corner, and also east of campus closer to the tracks.  Surround the campus on three sides with high density residential and keep the academic and office functions in the core area in between.


I'm really surprised we haven't seen more of this, especially with the large growth in enrollment and Norman growing in general.

Apart from CC there is very, very little private development near the campus.

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## dankrutka

Isn't Norman still blocking high density development in its core? Developers have a great plan on the table and the city council has effectively put them on hold over and over. Maybe I'm missing something.

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## venture

> Isn't Norman still blocking high density development in its core? Developers have a great plan on the table and the city council has effectively put them on hold over and over. Maybe I'm missing something.


You could say the city council is doing it, but technically the developer is asking for delays until the city gets the codes worked out.

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## ou48A

> I'm really surprised we haven't seen more of this, especially with the large growth in enrollment and Norman growing in general.
> 
> Apart from CC there is very, very little private development near the campus.


The biggest problem with new privet development near OU's campus is the lack of vacant land.

In most cases older homes and buildings would need to be torn down to make the land available and past members of the city council have spoken against doing this.
 Lots in this area are often very small and not everyone is willing to sell even at great prices. In many cases a developer would likely need to be willing to wait many, many years to buy enough land in one area to build anything major.

Increasing the value of the land is about the only way higher density will occur on any scale. 
The value of the land would be increased by decongesting the area via building several streets with more capacity and with commuter rail.
This would make the area a more realistic place to live for more people who have higher incomes.

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## Geographer

> Increasing the value of the land is about the only way higher density will occur on any scale. 
> The value of the land would be increased by decongesting the area via building several streets with more capacity and with commuter rail.
> This would make the area a more realistic place to live for more people who have higher incomes.


There are definitely more ways to raise value of land than by "decongesting" (and I don't believe this area is congested at all) areas and commuter rail.

I will definitely say that the streets surrounding campus can hold enough capacity...capacity isn't an issue.  Those roads function fine (they'd function better and more efficiently by replacing stoplights with roundabouts, but that's another story).  Redoing some major street-scapes along lindsey, boyd, university, asp (north of campus corner) would definitely help land values though.  However, Land Value in that area is already high because of the proximity to the university...and there's already a lot of money living around campus...just look at some of the houses just west of campus, some streets northwest of campus, little neighborhood off to the east of campus (east of classen and south of boyd).  There's money living around campus, that's not a problem.

I'll agree that acquiring enough property is an issue for a medium-rise mixed use-type development.

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## venture

> There are definitely more ways to raise value of land than by "decongesting" areas and commuter rail.
> 
> I will definitely say that the streets surrounding campus can hold enough capacity...capacity isn't an issue.  Those roads function fine (they'd function better and more efficiently by replacing stoplights with roundabouts, but that's another story).  Redoing some major street-scapes along lindsey, boyd, university, asp (north of campus corner) would definitely help land values though.  However, Land Value in that area is already high because of the proximity to the university...and there's already a lot of money living around campus...just look at some of the houses just west of campus, some streets northwest of campus, little neighborhood off to the east of campus (east of classen and south of boyd).  There's money living around campus, that's not a problem.
> 
> I'll agree that acquiring enough property is an issue for a medium-rise mixed use-type development.


Trey I agree with you. I cannot fathom the reasoning why we would even entertain adding more streets and such to an area that would be ripe for higher density developments. Adding more streets and such is only gong to serve the commuter/suburbia crowd that has no intention of living in a higher density area. Norman has plenty of areas where suburbanites can go and live with out destroying the quality of life that some of these older neighborhoods provide. If we can couple all of this with a commute rail station, completely with more high density development like what Kerry has proposed in the past, on Boyd or Lindsey then it is even better. 

More streets is not going to be an answer. There are plenty of them.

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## Geographer

> Trey I agree with you. I cannot fathom the reasoning why we would even entertain adding more streets and such to an area that would be ripe for higher density developments. Adding more streets and such is only gong to serve the commuter/suburbia crowd that has no intention of living in a higher density area. Norman has plenty of areas where suburbanites can go and live with out destroying the quality of life that some of these older neighborhoods provide. If we can couple all of this with a commute rail station, completely with more high density development like what Kerry has proposed in the past, on Boyd or Lindsey then it is even better. 
> 
> More streets is not going to be an answer. There are plenty of them.


The street connectivity west of campus (to berry) and north of campus (all the up to main and beyond) is fantastic! There's never any traffic on those streets because there are multiple streets with smaller blocks and they all connect and don't dead end.  What a novel idea eh? Make streets connect and you don't have congestion of people forced to take one or two roads to get somewhere.  This is the problem you see on Lindsey west of berry.  Many of the neighborhood streets leading from campus over towards berry dead end before they get to berry...thus people are forced to get onto Lindsey, creating traffic.  Too bad they don't connect to berry and beyond.  

Back to what we were talking about.....the street connectivity around campus is fantastic and definitely provides the bones for future mid-level development around campus (similar in form to headington hall).

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## ou48A

> There are definitely more ways to raise value of land than by "decongesting" (and I don't believe this area is congested at all) areas and commuter rail.
> 
> I will definitely say that the streets surrounding campus can hold enough capacity...capacity isn't an issue.  Those roads function fine (they'd function better and more efficiently by replacing stoplights with roundabouts, but that's another story).  Redoing some major street-scapes along lindsey, boyd, university, asp (north of campus corner) would definitely help land values though.  However, Land Value in that area is already high because of the proximity to the university...and there's already a lot of money living around campus...just look at some of the houses just west of campus, some streets northwest of campus, little neighborhood off to the east of campus (east of classen and south of boyd).  There's money living around campus, that's not a problem.
> 
> I'll agree that acquiring enough property is an issue for a medium-rise mixed use-type development.


When it very often takes 20 to 30 minutes to drive to the major shopping areas on the west side or to the interstate from the neighborhoods around campus its a major deterrent to many who would love to live near campus. Wasting this amount of time just isn't a option for more than a few folks who have more than enough money to live any place they would like. Eliminating this area as a option to live in for many professionals holds prices down and slows redevelopment. 

Most of the city streets near campus are of antiquated design, have very poor drainage and are in various states of  crumbling condition and by any reasonable assessment they do not come even remotely close to meting the needed capacity. If they haven't already they will be hindering the growth and development of OU and nearby areas. I know many people who avoid the campus areas just based on the congestion, so it is impacting area business sales to some extent.

When compared to other major university’s OU has scored poor marks for its access.

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## Geographer

> When it very often takes 20 to 30 minutes to drive to the major shopping areas on the west side or to the interstate from the neighborhoods around campus its a major deterrent to many who would love to live near campus. Wasting this amount of time just isn't a option for more than a few folks who have more than enough money to live any place they would like. Eliminating this area as a option to live in for many professionals holds prices down and slows redevelopment. 
> 
> Most of the city streets near campus are of antiquated design, have very poor drainage and are in various states of  crumbling condition and by any reasonable assessment they do not come even remotely close to meting the needed capacity. If they haven't already they will be hindering the growth and development of OU and nearby areas. I know many people who avoid the campus areas just based on the congestion, so it is impacting area business sales to some extent.
> 
> When compared to other major university’s OU has scored poor marks for its access.


So you're saying that no professionals that live near campus? I'll disagree with that, since there are many large homes with large values surrounding many areas of campus.

The only issue you have brought up is connectivity of neighborhood streets to the rest of Norman.  That's a problem rooted in the suburban street pattern found in Norman, IE west of berry (if we're talking strictly in the campus area).  Like I said in a previous post, the issue is STREET CONNECTIVITY, not the "antiquity of streets" or the size of streets.  If you connect your streets better, people have MULTIPLE options of getting around instead of 1 major road, lindsey.  That's the root of the problem, street connectivity.  The street is plenty big, there's just not enough connected through streets.  Connected Streets combined with Lindsey's street lights are the problem...the latter can be fixed with roundabouts at major intersections, the former will be harder to solve.  

But let's be sure and understand the root problem, it isn't capacity......it's connectivity.

Look at the picture I've attached, you can see that there are only two streets that connect ALL the way through, consistently, from 24th SW to campus.  Street connectivity is Norman's biggest problem, linking western shopping/interstate to campus. norman.JPG

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## ou48A

> So you're saying that no professionals that live near campus? I'll disagree with that, since there are many large homes with large values surrounding many areas of campus.


Where did I say that no professionals live near OU....? Clearly they do but a lot more would live near OU if they could..... Right now it takes way to much time daily for a high number of higher income people to live their and commute to a job. Its not a realistic option for many. But make it more accessible and more people will find it more desirable..... the property values will increases to a point that we will see far more redevelopment with some of being high density.

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## Geographer

> Where did I say that no professionals live near OU....? Clearly they do but a lot more would live near OU if they could..... Right now it takes way to much time daily for a high number of higher income people to live their and commute to a job. Its not a realistic option for many. But make it more accessible and more people will find it more desirable..... the property values will increases to a point that we will see far more redevelopment with some of being high density.


Street connectivity and flow along lindsey (without widening) are the keys to all of those  :Cool: 

I will say though that land values are already pretty high...look at zillow and zoom in on the neighborhood just west of campus....not unlike home values you find in some of the other neighborhoods west of the interstate.

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## venture

> So you're saying that no professionals that live near campus? I'll disagree with that, since there are many large homes with large values surrounding many areas of campus.
> 
> The only issue you have brought up is connectivity of neighborhood streets to the rest of Norman.  That's a problem rooted in the suburban street pattern found in Norman, IE west of berry (if we're talking strictly in the campus area).  Like I said in a previous post, the issue is STREET CONNECTIVITY, not the "antiquity of streets" or the size of streets.  If you connect your streets better, people have MULTIPLE options of getting around instead of 1 major road, lindsey.  That's the root of the problem, street connectivity.  The street is plenty big, there's just not enough connected through streets.  Connected Streets combined with Lindsey's street lights are the problem...the latter can be fixed with roundabouts at major intersections, the former will be harder to solve.  
> 
> But let's be sure and understand the root problem, it isn't capacity......it's connectivity.
> 
> Look at the picture I've attached, you can see that there are only two streets that connect ALL the way through, consistently, from 24th SW to campus.  Street connectivity is Norman's biggest problem, linking western shopping/interstate to campus. norman.JPG


I get what you are saying here. I use to live at Elmwood and Chautauqua. I would have loved for Flood to go all the way through, but Hoover and Elmwood streets in that area run East-West whereas everything else is North-South. However, all the years I lived over there, it never too me more than 10 minutes to get to the interstate. Does it back up at peak times during the day? Indeed. You plan around that just like you do rush hour in OKC. 

As far as people with money living near Campus in the Central Norman area...the comment made was just done out of pure ignorance to the houses in that area. Thankfully Zillow is available to show what the approximate values are there. IN the area from Berry to Pickard, to the south of Lindsey, those houses range from $250K up to $916K...with a large number in the 400-500K range. Moving east of there towards campus you have several 300-500K houses mixed in with the older 100-200K homes. Campus Corner area you are looking at prices from 194K to 316K on a few streets dropping to the typically 100-200K homes as you move east of there.

Doesn't really seem like people are eliminating this area as a place to live. Since I first moved to the area many years ago, there have been numerous high dollar homes built. Home values in that area have gone up pretty significantly over the years. When I first moved in I bought my house there for around $60K...that house sold last year for $125K. Not too shabby of an increase IMO.

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## ou48A

> The only issue you have brought up is connectivity of neighborhood streets to the rest of Norman.  That's a problem rooted in the suburban street pattern found in Norman, IE west of berry (if we're talking strictly in the campus area).  Like I said in a previous post, the issue is STREET CONNECTIVITY, not the "antiquity of streets" or the size of streets.  If you connect your streets better, people have MULTIPLE options of getting around instead of 1 major road, lindsey.  That's the root of the problem, street connectivity.  The street is plenty big, there's just not enough connected through streets.  Connected Streets combined with Lindsey's street lights are the problem...the latter can be fixed with roundabouts at major intersections, the former will be harder to solve.  
> 
> But let's be sure and understand the root problem, it isn't capacity......it's connectivity.
> 
> Look at the picture I've attached, you can see that there are only two streets that connect ALL the way through, consistently, from 24th SW to campus.  Street connectivity is Norman's biggest problem, linking western shopping/interstate to campus. norman.JPG


 Better street connectivity such as you suggest would help but its far from the only solution. Its like a few drops in the bucket compared to what's really needed..... and to do what you suggest you would need to demolish several homes and that's been something that a small but vocal minority has opposed for projects that would provide far greater benefit such as adding 4 lanes on Lindsey all the was to campus.
I drove around these neighborhoods just yesterday evening in light rain, these are antiquated streets by and reasonable standard.
It's time to build the Front Street fly over.

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## HangryHippo

> Better street connectivity such as you suggest would help but its far from the only solution. Its like a few drops in the bucket compared to what's really needed..... and to do what you suggest you would need to demolish several homes and that's been something that a small but vocal minority has opposed for projects that would provide far greater benefit such as adding 4 lanes on Lindsey all the was to campus.
> I drove around these neighborhoods just yesterday evening in light rain, these are antiquated streets by and reasonable standard.
> It's time to build the Front Street fly over.


Front Street flyover?

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## Geographer

> Better street connectivity such as you suggest would help but its far from the only solution. Its like a few drops in the bucket compared to what's really needed..... and to do what you suggest you would need to demolish several homes and that's been something that a small but vocal minority has opposed for projects that would provide far greater benefit such as adding 4 lanes on Lindsey all the was to campus.
> I drove around these neighborhoods just yesterday evening in light rain, these are antiquated streets by and reasonable standard.
> It's time to build the Front Street fly over.


I will be greatly disheartened if Lindsey is widened...it's like treating a heart problem with medicine but then right after going out and eating a cheeseburger.  It's treating some symptoms but not the root of the problem, or at least not understanding the root of the problem.

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## ou48A

> I will be greatly disheartened if Lindsey is widened...it's like treating a heart problem with medicine but then right after going out and eating a cheeseburger.  It's treating some symptoms but not the root of the problem, or at least not understanding the root of the problem.



The widening of Lindsey in this area is inevitable. There is absolutely nothing special or sacred about it that can't essentially be recreated and made better for ten's of thousands... People are way to in love with a hand full of trees.... most of which could with a little effort could be transplanted. Take the needed land on the north side of the street and it will have minimal impact.
Lindsey street is scheduled to be widened from Berry westward in a few years.
 Its only natural that the vast majority will demand that the rest of  Lindsey eventually be widened too.

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## HangryHippo

Before Lindsey is widened in this area, I want to see a Lindsey St. underpass of the railroad tracks just west of Classen.

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## ou48A

> Front Street flyover?


The Front Street Fly over was talked about many, many years ago. It was basic an elevated limited access state highway from near the Brooks and Boyd street area that followed the rail road tracks  north to connect with Flood Street  north of Robinson Street. There are very few homes or buildings in the way.

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## ou48A

> Before Lindsey is widened in this area, I want to see a Lindsey St. underpass of the railroad tracks just west of Classen.


I don't disagree, but both are needed.
The state should help Norman and OU by making Lindsey a state highway from I-35 east though campus.

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## Geographer

> The widening of Lindsey in this area is inevitable. There is absolutely nothing special or sacred about it that can't essentially be recreated and made better for ten's of thousands... People are way to in love with a hand full of trees.... most of which could with a little effort could be transplanted. Take the needed land on the north side of the street and it will have minimal impact.
> Lindsey street is scheduled to be widened from Berry westward in a few years.
>  Its only natural that the vast majority will demand that the rest of  Lindsey eventually be widened too.


LOL. It isn't inevitable.  There is absolutely something special about the area west of Berry as well.  Great homes, great atmosphere, great transition to campus.  I'm not in love with trees, I'm in love with the feel of Lindsey east of Berry.  It absolutely can be improved WITHOUT widening. Lindsey street is currently about to undergo a transformation, you're correct...however, did you know that it may not be to the original 4-5 lane road?  There are discussions and possible plans-to-be for a complete streetscape project for Lindsey that does not include simply widening the road....I'm telling you, the traffic comes from the constant stop/go of the street lights, not from the current road form.  It just needs roundabouts to replace the street lights so there is constant flow of traffic, c'mon now.


EDIT: For the record, traffic counts have actually been FALLING along lindsey over the last 12 years...so why widen the road?

----------


## venture

> The widening of Lindsey in this area is inevitable. There is absolutely nothing special or sacred about it that can't essentially be recreated and made better for ten's of thousands... People are way to in love with a hand full of trees.... most of which could with a little effort could be transplanted.


With pretty high costs. What is wrong with have an area full of trees? I understand you may enjoy your spartan subdivision lot up on NW Tecumseh, but that isn't for everyone. If you don't like trees...don't live in Central Norman. Easy as that.




> Take the needed land on the north side of the street and it will have minimal impact.
> Lindsey street is scheduled to be widened from Berry westward in a few years.
>  Its only natural that the vast majority will demand that the rest of  Lindsey eventually be widened too.


Exactly what land on the north side of Lindsey are you talking about? Have you even been to that area? Your ignorance is showing. The houses on the north side of the street are much closer than those on the south side. Still...you are talking about taking a significant portion of the front yards of many folks. Would you be willing to give up 50% of your front yard to have a street run through it?

If we are going to do anything to Lindsey, it would be to add a center lane for a street car rail system and that's it. Anything more than that isn't needed. All you are going to do is cause more traffic to stack up in that area instead of reduce it. 

I say we leave it up to the property owners and those that actually want to live there.

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## venture

> LOL. It isn't inevitable.  There is absolutely something special about the area west of Berry as well.  Great homes, great atmosphere, great transition to campus.  I'm not in love with trees, I'm in love with the feel of Lindsey east of Berry.  It absolutely can be improved WITHOUT widening.  I hate to sound pompous, but I actually do know what I am talking about.  Lindsey street is currently about to undergo a transformation, you're correct...however, did you know that it may not be to the original 4-5 lane road?  There are discussions and possible plans-to-be for a complete streetscape project for Lindsey that does not include simply widening the road....I'm telling you, the traffic comes from the constant stop/go of the street lights, not from the current road form.  It just needs roundabouts to replace the street lights so there is constant flow of traffic, c'mon now.


I would love to see roundabouts replace the lines east of Berry. It definitely would make more sense and would have minimal impact on the neighborhood. Not to mention the creativity you could get with decorating them. The issue then hits again when you enter campus on how to handle those lights which are there for pedestrian traffic. I would like to see walkways similar to the elevated ones in Las Vegas, but you have to worry about truck traffic and clearance.

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## ou48A

> did you know that it may not be to the original 4-5 lane road?  There are discussions and possible plans-to-be for a complete streetscape project for Lindsey that does not include simply widening the road


So are you trying to say that the City of Norman leaders lied when the city’s voters passed a bond issue to widen “Lindsey Street from Interstate 35 to Berry Road would increase driving lanes to four, include a center turn lane”.

Doing anything but what was voted on is tantamount to a lie and those responsible deviating from what was voted on and passed should be help personally responsible.
There is nothing here that I haven't seen in over a hundred other locations and what ever it is can be rebuilt, but with a widen street.

Lindsey Street widening plan unveiled in Norman | News OK

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## ou48A

> EDIT: For the record, traffic counts have actually been FALLING along lindsey over the last 12 years...so why widen the road?


Your thoughts that Lindsey street traffic is not growing worse is not the reality according to the quoted information.

*“Traffic will continue to increase by about 1 to 2 percent each year, “and it's already highly congested and uncomfortable. It's only going to get worse,” she said.”*

As the article discusses this is a serious safety issue. The congestion its self is a serious safety issue that very seriously slows emergency response times. The congestion also causes pollution and lost productivity and commerce.

All of this combined is not worth a few old homes and a few trees on the north side of Lindsey street.

Lindsey Street widening plan unveiled in Norman | News OK

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## ou48A

Lindsey Street widening plan unveiled in Norman | News OK


Engineer Bret Cabbiness said the plan is designed to correct chronic flooding problems and dangerous traffic conditions on the one-mile strip along Lindsey, which now has two driving lanes and a center turn lane. 

*The Lindsey Street corridor has the highest accident rate in the city and a crash rate three times the national average for similar type roads, said Nikki Tiner of Garver LLC*.


About 21,000 vehicles travel that stretch of Lindsey every day, with accidents occurring at the rate of about one every four days, Tiner said.

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## Geographer

> Your thoughts that Lindsey street traffic is not growing worse is not the reality according to the quoted information.
> 
> *“Traffic will continue to increase by about 1 to 2 percent each year, “and it's already highly congested and uncomfortable. It's only going to get worse,” she said.”*
> 
> As the article discusses this is a serious safety issue. The congestion its self is a serious safety issue that very seriously slows emergency response times. The congestion also causes pollution and lost productivity and commerce.
> 
> All of this combined is not worth a few old homes and a few trees on the north side of Lindsey street.
> 
> Lindsey Street widening plan unveiled in Norman | News OK


I do not know where these people getting those numbers because they have actually been decreasing, look at traffic counts of the past decade.

There is definitely time to change the format of the street and yes it is being discussed and no it isn't illegal.

The OU IQC held a meeting on "Livable Lindsey Streetscape" a couple of week ago with a streetscape expert...In attendance were the city's contracted engineering firm, the mayor, and a couple of council members.  There is definitely consideration of a revamp of the project. 


Like I said, we're taking medicine for a heart problem instead of stop eating cheeseburgers.  If you want to induce and create more traffic then by all means widen Lindsey.  If you want to correct the current problem, replace street lights with roundabouts and have traffic continuously flow.  I walked from my office on campus to my car in the parking lot and drove to Johnny Carino's for lunch today on the west side of I-35 off of Lindsey.  Do you know how long it took me? I timed myself: 11 minutes and 35 seconds...actual drive time was around 9 minutes (and I hit 4 lights).  So your assertion that it takes 20-30 minutes to get from campus area to shopping on the west side is a little overstated...unless it's rush hour..then plan accordingly (like you do anywhere else).


EDIT: here are your traffic counts for Lindsey over the past 10 years....DECREASING. traffic.JPG

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## BoulderSooner

there is about 0% chance that it is not made 2 driving lanes in each direction

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## Geographer

> there is about 0% chance that it is not made 2 driving lanes in each direction



I'm not saying it won't happen...but what I am saying is that there are other things being considered now than simply making it look like robinson or any arterial street on the west side.

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## BoulderSooner

> I'm not saying it won't happen...but what I am saying is that there are other things being considered now than simply making it look like robinson or any arterial street on the west side.


making it look like robinson was never the plan ....    extra lanes plus bike lanes plus sidewalks was always the plan

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## ou48A

> I do not know where these people getting those numbers because they have actually been decreasing, look at traffic counts of the past decade.


They have their fact straight and the reason why I know they do is because OU and the city of Norman has been growing by something like 1000 to 1500 people per year for decades. That adds up to increased traffic on the same roads that have seen little to no improvement and do nothing but keep getting more and more congested and more dangerous. Since I first put eyes on Lindsey street in the mid 1960's my own eyes don't lie to me.

Try going to the west side at the same time of day in about 2 months when class is in session at OU and you will see why its a  big problem for busy people who don't have the luxury of time.

----------


## Geographer

> They have their fact straight and the reason why I know they do is because OU and the city of Norman has been growing by something like 1000 to 1500 people per year for decades. *That adds up to increased traffic* on the same roads that have seen little to no improvement and do nothing but keep getting more and more congested and more dangerous. Since I first put eyes on Lindsey street in the mid 1960's my own eyes don't lie to me.
> 
> Try going to the west side at the same time of day in about 2 months when class is in session at OU and you will see why its a  big problem for busy people who don't have the luxury of time.


Sigh, even with hard data....

----------


## ou48A

> Sigh, even with hard data....


Bring your linked information...... 
Lying is unacceptable. Doing anything but 2 lanes in each direction would be a lie. Not doing what the people voted for is a lie.
Heaven help those who would feel the back lash on this because it would likely be serious and likely get personal.

----------


## Geographer

> Bring your linked information...... 
> Lying is unacceptable. Doing anything but 2 lanes in each direction would be a lie. Not doing what the people voted for is a lie.
> Heaven help those who would feel the back lash on this because it would likely be serious and likely get personal.


Side Joke: Isn't that what politicians do all the time?  :Wink:  not doing what people voted for.


Seriously though, projects and designs change multiple times throughout the process.

Wouldn't it have been a lie as well if city people sold this based on false information? ...such as "expected" increase in traffic...when traffic has been decreasing for a decade.

----------


## venture

> making it look like robinson was never the plan .... extra lanes plus bike lanes plus sidewalks was always the plan


I don't think he is disputing that. I think he is point out that the overall look it was is in flux. There is plenty of talk of doing away with turn lanes completely (reported in the Transcript) in favor of a landscaped median. It would also be advantageous to eliminate as many curb cuts as possible and force people to utilize the side streets that are available. 




> They have their fact straight and the reason why I know they do is because OU and the city of Norman has been growing by something like 1000 to 1500 people per year for decades. That adds up to increased traffic on the same roads that have seen little to no improvement and do nothing but keep getting more and more congested and more dangerous. Since I first put eyes on Lindsey street in the mid 1960's my own eyes don't lie to me.
> 
> Try going to the west side at the same time of day in about 2 months when class is in session at OU and you will see why its a  big problem for busy people who don't have the luxury of time.


Hmm. Trey sure did just link the hard data for traffic on Lindsey and unless the laws of math have been redone, those numbers are decreasing. We also have to keep in mind that Central Norman is pretty mature when it comes to development and much of the growth is in the suburban sprawl areas. Of course the next logical step for Central Norman is high density developments which will only succeed with proper mass transit planning. 

I do wonder how many times you actually drive through campus during the day? I actually live just off Lindsey and transit through there during the school year - during rush hour - and it has never taken me this phantom 30 minutes to get across.

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## ou48A

> Side Joke: Isn't that what politicians do all the time?  not doing what people voted for.
> 
> 
> Seriously though, projects and designs change multiple times throughout the process.
> 
> Wouldn't it have been a lie as well if city people sold this based on false information? ...such as "expected" increase in traffic...when traffic has been decreasing for a decade.




The linked information that I provide shows that traffic is increasing and when combined with the  fact that Normans population has grown  significantly since 2000 along with increased OU enrollment I am going to believe published information over your opinion. If you have links of document substance please post them.

They might tweak the Lindsey project, but not building 2 lanes in each direction from Berry west would represent  lie.... because that's how it was sold to the voters.... And no a lie is not done too often at the local city level on something this major and even if its done elsewhere that doesn’t make it right for Norman & OU.

All this reminds me of the time in 1979 when a person with a PHD told me that we didn't need any more parking lots or any parking garages at OU. When I ask why he said that nobody would be driving cars in twenty to thirty years. Just like we see now that was an example of a person who thought he was was a lot smarter than he really was with his short sighted views that only hinder good growth, prosperity and even higher density living for a much larger segment of the population.

There are a ton of older rent houses in the area that could be torn down and redeveloped but the congestion issues makes this land less desirable for many.
I know that in several more years (if the wife will let me) that I wouldn’t mind living in a higher end condo complex provided that it had enough of the right amenity's and if it was not too close to the RR tracks. We will have more time to spend and less desired to do yard work at that point in our lives.


On edit: I see your edited linked traffic numbers..... This is not significantly different.... It's a small bump in the road. The trend of over all increased traffic is still likely to continue..... Particularly as Norman and OU keep growing.

----------


## Geographer

> The linked information that I provide shows that traffic is increasing and when combined with the  fact that Normans population has grown  significantly since 2000 along with increased OU enrollment I am going to believe published information over your opinion. If you have links of document substance please post them.
> 
> They might tweak the Lindsey project, but not building 2 lanes in each direction from Berry west would represent  lie.... because that's how it was sold to the voters.... And no a lie is not done too often at the local city level on something this major and even if its done elsewhere that doesn’t make it right for Norman & OU.
> 
> All this reminds me of the time in 1979 when a person with a PHD told me that we didn't need any more parking lots or any parking garages at OU. When I ask why he said that nobody would be driving cars in twenty to thirty years. Just like we see now that was an example of a person who thought he was was a lot smarter than he really was with his short sighted views that only hinder good growth, prosperity and even higher density living for a much larger segment of the population.
> 
> There are a ton of older rent houses in the area that could be torn down and redeveloped but the congestion issues makes this land less desirable for many.
> I know that in several more years (if the wife will let me) that I wouldn’t mind living in a higher end condo complex provided that it had enough of the right amenity's and if it was not too close to the RR tracks. We will have more time to spend and less desired to do yard work at that point in our lives.
> 
> ...



Enjoy your line of thinking  :Smile:  I hope it works well for you.

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## venture

I'm confused.




> The linked information that I provide shows that traffic is increasing and when combined with the  fact that Normans population has grown  significantly since 2000 along with increased OU enrollment I am going to *believe published information over your opinion*. If you have links of document substance please post them.
> 
> On edit: I see your edited linked traffic numbers..... *This is not significantly different.... It's a small bump in the road*. The *trend of over all increased traffic is still likely to continue*..... Particularly as Norman and OU keep growing.


Which he provided documented proof about 2 hours ago on his original post (it was a quick edit IIRC) but was apparently overlooked. 

Umm. A 3000 cars per day decline over the last 10 years...I think that is pretty significant. Small bump in the road? It's be decreasing for 10 Years.



Trend overall? I might be young in comparison, but I think we all learned the same meaning of trend.




> *trend*(trnd)_n._*1.* The general direction in which something tends to move.
> *2.* A general tendency or inclination.


There hasn't been any upward tick in 10 years...so where is this upward trend?





> All this reminds me of the time in 1979 when a person with a PHD told me that we didn't need any more parking lots or any parking garages at OU. When I ask why he said that nobody would be driving cars in twenty to thirty years. Just like we see now that was an example of a person who thought he was was a lot smarter than he really was with his short sighted views that only hinder good growth, prosperity and even higher density living for a much larger segment of the population.


Indeed. So what happened? The car loving baby boomer generation loved their suburban utopias and alas - we got stuck with what we have now. Was he short sighted or was the generation that is now being replaced (in power) selfish and lazy?

Also. We obviously have a battle going on here and not to get too morbid, but should our tax dollars and planning time be used to handle the next 5-10 years or the next 40-50 years? It is easier for some to say they want it a certain way or it has to be this way because of what is going on right now, but they are only going to be living with it for another 10-20 years...the rest of us are here for another 40-60 years. 

What is wrong with doing it right the first time, planning for the long term...instead of doing a patch job that in 20 years we are going to be regretting. Norman's population is only going higher, as pointed out, so we need to be making the decisions now to foster high density development (with small footprints) in order to accommodate that. That means better housing developments and more investment in mass transit/rail. 




> There are a ton of older rent houses in the area that could be torn down and redeveloped but the congestion issues makes this land less desirable for many.
> I know that in several more years (if the wife will let me) that I wouldn’t mind living in a higher end condo complex provided that it had enough of the right amenity's and if it was not too close to the RR tracks. We will have more time to spend and less desired to do yard work at that point in our lives.


Really? So let's take a stroll down Lindsey from Berry. 

Berry to Pickard: 12 homes. One house on the SOUTH side of Lindsey built in 1950 with a value of $83K. It is between a house valued at $916K and $314K. Only 3 other homes in that area are below $200K and are higher than $144K.

Pickard to Flood: 8 homes...1 is 63k the rest are between $123K and $284K. The highest value one is on the North side of the street. 

Flood to Lahoma: 6 homes...257k, 115k, 264k, 177k, 120k, and 225k. Two of the higher valued homes are north and one is south.

Lahoma to Chautauqua: 8 homes, including a frat house I believe it is. Two of the homes on the south side are worth over $400K, north side they are between $112k to $175k. 

Chautauqua to College: 3 homes...202k, 350k, 293k. With those right along the street - not really the old cheap rental houses being spoken of.

Beyond that you have mostly commercial property.

So...

1) If this is so undesirable, how are property values so high.

2) If people didn't want to live here, why are people building near million dollar homes in this area (the most expensive one isn't 10 years old yet).

3) How it is justified to spend over $3 million (going by market rate) buying the homes on the north side just to add more traffic and congestion to the area that will negatively impact property values?

I think this is just a simple generational divide. The younger ground (40 and under) is taking over more responsibility running the city and we want it to be done right for us as we age and for those that start families. The baby boomers are wanting what has felt comfortable for them over the years and don't want to break the addiction of their cars, sprawl and other wastes.

----------


## Geographer

very well said.

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## CaptDave

> I think this is just a simple generational divide. The younger ground (40 and under) is take over more responsibility running the city and we want it to be done right for us as we age and for those that start families. The baby boomers are wanting what has felt comfortable for them over the years and don't want to break the addiction of their cars, sprawl and other wastes.


This is germane to just about every discussion of development and infrastructure. It is becoming clear that "needs" of 30 years ago are often just "wants". Even in the face of objective data, there will be segments of the population convinced they are entitled to their wants. More people are becoming less willing to sacrifice quality of life in urban areas to enable escape to suburbia. Suburban living is not going to disappear and will always be the choice of many people, but it is long past time to decrease the nearly exclusive emphasis of infrastructure investment to facilitate high speed movement to the 'burbs. (I am over 40 so don't lump all of us into that group!)

----------


## venture

> This is germane to just about every discussion of development and infrastructure. It is becoming clear that "needs" of 30 years ago are often just "wants". Even in the face of objective data, there will be segments of the population convinced they are entitled to their wants. More people are becoming less willing to sacrifice quality of life in urban areas to enable escape to suburbia. Suburban living is not going to disappear and will always be the choice of many people, but it is long past time to decrease the nearly exclusive emphasis of infrastructure investment to facilitate high speed movement to the 'burbs. (I am over 40 so don't lump all of us into that group!)


Dave...wouldn't never lump everyone in to that, but I think the generalization is somewhat appropriate since it was during the 70s/80s and such that we saw the flight to the burbs. Look at how many cities in this country, even OKC, that had some form of street car or light rail system in the central urban areas at some point in the past. Then it all went away in those cities that experienced the flight from the core.

----------


## Just the facts

> All this reminds me of the time in 1979 when a person with a PHD told me that we didn't need any more parking lots or any parking garages at OU. When I ask why he said that nobody would be driving cars in twenty to thirty years. Just like we see now that was an example of a person who thought he was was a lot smarter than he really was with his short sighted views that only hinder good growth, prosperity and even higher density living for a much larger segment of the population.


The times are changing again.  You have become your 1979 professor.  Ponder on that for a few minutes.

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## ou48A

> The times are changing again.  You have become your 1979 professor.  Ponder on that for a few minutes.



I think very definitively not. There are more cars and parking spaces on or near OU's main campus than ever and many times than the amount compared to 1979.
 As OU and Norman continue to grow so will the traffic. Besides it wasn't my professor it was a  relative who is still working very hard and well past his normal retirement years. But there are a lot of well meaning professors who are full of it.....particularly when it comes to economics, creating prosperity and transportation.

----------


## venture

> I think very definitively not. There are more cars and parking spaces on or near OU's main campus than ever and many times than the amount compared to 1979.
>  As OU and Norman continue to grow so will the traffic. Besides it wasn't my professor it was a  relative who is still working very hard and well past his normal retirement years. But there are a lot of well meaning professors who are full of it.....particularly when it comes to economics, creating prosperity and transportation.


Norman's population grew 15% since 2000. Lindsey Streets traffic, in that same time frame, has decreased 14%. Why are you having issues understanding these documented and measurable facts? 

Sure there are more cars on the OU campus. How many of those are using Highway 9 to go to I-35 though? Trey might have those numbers. Wouldn't it be a more logical plan to further develop CART and possible street car systems through Norman that link up with a Commuter Rail line to OKC? Make safety improvements to Lindsey, but traffic trends indicate that there is no need to 4-lane Lindsay to campus.

----------


## kevinpate

One reason I can think of to 4 lane Lindsey.  So folks coming in to campus from NW Norman area (or from farther north and jumping off at Tecumseh, can have a four lane route down 36, past main, make the curve and then keep the 4 lane on down Lindsey.

Please note i am not saying it is a compelling reason, just a reason.

----------


## Geographer

> Norman's population grew 15% since 2000. Lindsey Streets traffic, in that same time frame, has decreased 14%. Why are you having issues understanding these documented and measurable facts? 
> 
> Sure there are more cars on the OU campus. How many of those are using Highway 9 to go to I-35 though? Trey might have those numbers. Wouldn't it be a more logical plan to further develop CART and possible street car systems through Norman that link up with a Commuter Rail line to OKC? Make safety improvements to Lindsey, but traffic trends indicate that there is no need to 4-lane Lindsay to campus.


Imhoff Road (which is the road off of Highway 9 that many students take to the Lloyd Noble Center to park): imhoff.JPG   You can see that Imhoff traffic is decreasing as well.

Highway 9 (this traffic count is taken on highway 9 between the Imhoff exit and Chautauqua exit): hwy 9.JPG  It has been increasing here, but I will attribute much of that to new development on the south and SE side of Norman, although more people could be taking it to campus as well...but where this traffic count was taken, it's not the most direct route to campus or LNC.

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## BG918

> One reason I can think of to 4 lane Lindsey.  So folks coming in to campus from NW Norman area (or from farther north and jumping off at Tecumseh, can have a four lane route down 36, past main, make the curve and then keep the 4 lane on down Lindsey.
> 
> Please note i am not saying it is a compelling reason, just a reason.


4-lane Lindsey west of I-35 doesn't have turn lanes.  I would be okay with a 4-lane Lindsey from 24th to campus if it was just 4 lanes, no center turn lane, with a left turn lane only at major intersections like McGee, Berry and Jenkins.  There is already a center turn lane for most of this distance, so getting rid of that and adding two lanes is not really widening it much.  The big improvement would be new sidewalks along the entire stretch, and new trees and lighting.

And while I like the idea of bike lanes on Lindsey I think they would be better used on less busy streets like Boyd, Chautauqua, Elm and Brooks (which already has them in some parts).  If the city decided to 2-way Main and Gray then that would be another good place for a bike lane, as well as on University connecting Main to Boyd.

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## Dustin

New state of the art student housing building, Headington Hall.

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## mugofbeer

I have been to a number of games in recent years and always approach from the North.  I saw this from the Stadium while under construction but haven't seen it at this distance.  VERY nice structure!  I recall there were some proposals for privately owned residential not far from this location  - east on Lidsey maybe?  Whatever happened to those plans?

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## ou48A

> I have been to a number of games in recent years and always approach from the North.  I saw this from the Stadium while under construction but haven't seen it at this distance.  VERY nice structure!  I recall there were some proposals for privately owned residential not far from this location  - east on Lidsey maybe?  *Whatever happened to those plans*?


Building nice condos was the plan... At one point I was interested. They old apartments there had become a place where shady characters had been hanging out. Boren wanted to get rid of them. Some say that he used the condes as an excuse to tear the old apartments down. They economy took a nose dive and nothing has happened.... 

I have always though that a very nice 4 star hotel and a large condo complex that was priced high enough to keep most students out would do well some where near OU but not to close to the RR tracks

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## ou48A

Scout.com: OU's new student housing opens


Suggested reading on OU's new Headington Hall

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## ou48A

I love this! Its part of the new Headington Hall at OU.

Its called the Guardian. Its a very nice touch IMHO.
*

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## Snowman

> I love this! Its part of the new Headington Hall at OU.
> 
> Its called the Guardian. Its a very nice touch IMHO.


Hope he got permission to leave the capital dome  :Big Grin:

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## BG918

Headington Hall is a first class facility.  I hope it becomes the basis for what future OU student housing projects look like in the Asp & Lindsey area.  

What are the plans for the existing athletic dorms (Wilkinson House, etc)?

----------


## HangryHippo

> Headington Hall is a first class facility.  I hope it becomes the basis for what future OU student housing projects look like in the Asp & Lindsey area.  
> 
> What are the plans for the existing athletic dorms (Wilkinson House, etc)?


Headington Hall is amazing!  While there are a few things I would have done differently, it's a top notch facility that I, too, hope serves as a model for future OU housing.

I think the plan for the existing buildings is one is going to be torn down and the other is going to be reworked into offices for athletic staff.  That was the last I heard anyway.

----------


## venture

Would love to see the features expanded to new structures to replace the other dorms. Walker was nice an all, but I still didn't care of it 15 years ago. Would like to see them tear down the existing towers and construct new high density structures.

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## ou48A

> Headington Hall is amazing!  While there are a few things I would have done differently, it's a top notch facility that I, too, hope serves as a model for future OU housing.
> 
> I think the plan for the existing buildings is one is going to be torn down and the other is going to be reworked into offices for athletic staff.  That was the last I heard anyway.



I'm also hearing that the Bud will be reconfigured and turned into office space.
I have heard that the other 2 dorms will be torn down.

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## ou48A

To replace the towers and Cate Center with dorms similar to the Headington would cost the state hundreds of millions of dollars. I have a hard time believing the state would cough up that much money for OU anytime soon.

The Headington cost $75 million dollars. Its being paid for by donations and by bonds that the athletic department will be responsible for paying down, but out of the 380 total students who will live there only 180 are athletes.

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## Bunty

> To replace the towers and Cate Center with dorms similar to the Headington would cost the state hundreds of millions of dollars. I have a hard time believing the state would cough up that much money for OU anytime soon.
> 
> The Headington cost $75 million dollars. Its being paid for by donations and by bonds that the athletic department will be responsible for paying down, but out of the 380 total students who will live there only 180 are athletes.


While none are as nice as the Headington, how the heck did OSU get so much money to build new student housing in recent years?  It's already planned in a couple of years to bring down the old twin 12 story dorms--Kerr-Drummond, and replace them with new student housing.

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## kevinpate

> While none are as nice as the Headington, how the heck did OSU get so much money to build new student housing in recent years?  It's already planned in a couple of years to bring down the old twin 12 story dorms--Kerr-Drummond, and replace them with new student housing.


Wasn't that a part of T Boone Pickens rather massive donation a while back?

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## ou48A

> While none are as nice as the Headington, how the heck did OSU get so much money to build new student housing in recent years?  It's already planned in a couple of years to bring down the old twin 12 story dorms--Kerr-Drummond, and replace them with new student housing.


I'm not sure how OSU paid for their new dorms but OU spent about 100 million on refurbishing the towers about 10 or so years ago. There was a rumored 100 million dollar anonymous donation given to OU about this time. The rumored donor was Helen Walton of WMT.

While it would be very nice to have all the dorms on camps look like the Headington, short of a major new donation OU is probably not going to do anything for many years. 
There are too many other bigger prioritys and not nearly enough money.+ OU's bond debt is pretty high and state funding can not be counted on.

Besides, with the rising cost of attending collage and with such poor job prospects with way too many degree programs and now with so many more classes now being offered on line, I'm not so sure that poring massive amounts of money into all new dorms is as wise of investment as it would be to  increase the quality of  the universitys academics and research capability's that would spin off high wage jobs and offer royalty opportunity's?

----------


## HangryHippo

> I'm not sure how OSU paid for their new dorms but OU spent about 100 million on refurbishing the towers about 10 or so years ago. There was a rumored 100 million dollar anonymous donation given to OU about this time. The rumored donor was Helen Walton of WMT.
> 
> While it would be very nice to have all the dorms on camps look like the Headington, short of a major new donation OU is probably not going to do anything for many years. 
> There are too many other bigger priority’s and not nearly enough money.+ OU's bond debt is pretty high and state funding can not be counted on.
> 
> Besides, with the rising cost of attending collage and with such poor job prospects with way too many degree programs and now with so many more classes now being offered on line, I'm not so sure that poring massive amounts of money into all new dorms is as wise of investment as it would be to  increase the quality of  the university’s academics and research capability's that would spin off high wage jobs and offer royalty opportunity's?


Also, I don't think the renovations to the dorm towers started until 2005 and they were supposed to take place gradually over the next 6 years...  Ideally, OU would have saved the $100 million donation and put it to much better use.  They should have razed the dorm towers and used the donation to do something better.  That whole part of campus south between Asp and Elm (?) should be razed.  Lots of hideous architecture in that area.

What is OU's current bond debt?  Also, does anyone know the current value of OU's endowment?  The only number I come across is outdated by at least 2 years.

----------


## Geographer

> What is OU's current bond debt?  Also, does anyone know the current value of OU's endowment?  The only number I come across is outdated by at least 2 years.


Are you talking University-wide debt? Or Athletics Department Debt?

----------


## HangryHippo

> Are you talking University-wide debt? Or Athletics Department Debt?


Let's go with both if you have the current numbers for each of them.

----------


## ou48A

:Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## ou48A

> While none are as nice as the Headington, *how the heck did OSU get so much money to build new student housing in recent years*?  It's already planned in a couple of years to bring down the old twin 12 story dorms--Kerr-Drummond, and replace them with new student housing.





> Fitch Rates Oklahoma State University Revenue Bonds 'AA'; Outlook Stable | Finance ? paidContent





> Fitch assigns an 'AA' rating to the series 2013B and C general revenue bonds (the bonds) to be issued in the amount of $96 million by the Regents of the Oklahoma Agricultural and Mechanical Colleges on behalf of Oklahoma State University (OSU, or the university): 
> 
> The bonds will be sold on a negotiated basis on or about the week of July 22nd and the proceeds will be used to refund certain OSU's series 2003 outstanding revenue bonds, fund the construction of several projects including a civil engineering building, a veterinary medicine academic center, a library storage facility*,[U] student housing [/U*]and pay costs of issuance. 
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, Fitch affirms the 'AA' rating on OSU's $262.5 million of outstanding general revenue bonds. 
> 
> The Rating Outlook is Stable. 
> ...


..

----------


## ou48A

> Also, I don't think the renovations to the dorm towers started until 2005 and they were supposed to take place gradually over the next 6 years...  Ideally, OU would have saved the $100 million donation and put it to much better use.  They should have razed the dorm towers and used the donation to do something better.  That whole part of campus south between Asp and Elm (?) should be razed.  Lots of hideous architecture in that area.
> 
> What is OU's current bond debt?  Also, does anyone know the current value of OU's endowment?  The only number I come across is outdated by at least 2 years.


Bond information for OU
http://www.bondsonline.com/print/Tod...view&RID=29010

RATING AFFIRMED: The 'AA' rating reflects OU's status as a state flagship higher education institution with recent year enrollment growth, relative affordability compared to its peers and demonstrated fund raising success in a stressed economic climate. 
Counterbalancing *factors include a high but manageable debt burden*.

----------


## Snowman

> Also, I don't think the renovations to the dorm towers started until 2005 and they were supposed to take place gradually over the next 6 years...  Ideally, OU would have saved the $100 million donation and put it to much better use.  They should have razed the dorm towers and used the donation to do something better.  That whole part of campus south between Asp and Elm (?) should be razed.  Lots of hideous architecture in that area.
> 
> What is OU's current bond debt?  Also, does anyone know the current value of OU's endowment?  The only number I come across is outdated by at least 2 years.


Much of what gets donated is to specific projects, waiting just lets inflation eat at what can be done

----------


## ou48A

> Much of what gets donated is to specific projects, waiting just lets inflation eat at what can be done



I believe most donations are placed in custody of OU's foundation and are put in investments that would offer a degree of protection against inflation?

Pete knows a lot about how these things are handled... I hope he chimes in and offers some clarification.

----------


## Snowman

> I believe most donations are placed in custody of OU's foundation and are put in investments that would offer a degree of protection against inflation?
> 
> Pete knows a lot about how these things are handled... I hope he chimes in and offers some clarification.


While I do not know the specifics of OU's program, most of the ones I have seen are conservative enough that they are still loosing verses inflation in construction prices.

----------


## ou48A

> While I do not know the specifics of OU's program, most of the ones I have seen are conservative enough that they are still loosing verses inflation in construction prices.


That's probably right.

But I have wondered if during depressed times when material prices are low if it might not be a bad idea to go ahead buy things like rebar and store it until its time to build the project.

----------


## ou48A

> I can definitely assure you at OU will not be replacing Lloyd Noble anytime soon, its an unfortunate truth.


You may be right, but according to Joe C. all options are on the table.

All options would include the possibility of a new arena.

----------


## BG918

> You may be right, but according to Joe C. all options are on the table.
> 
> All options would include the possibility of a new arena.


The article I read seemed to imply that all options were on the table to do something with LNC.  I would love to see a new arena though, even if it was smaller than LNC.  Something on the Duck Pond lot with the main entrance facing a new plaza at Jenkins & Brooks, and completing the east end of the quadrangle formed by the stadium, Armory, Price Hall and the fieldhouse.  Parking would be in what is left of the Duck Pond lot and likely a new garage in the same area that also serves the campus.  Contrary to popular belief parking would actually be easier since it would be more spreadout among existing and new campus garages and lots, as well as people parking in Campus Corner for pre-game dinner/drinks and walking to the arena, which you can't really do with LNC.  Such a facility would also be within walking distance of a possible campus commuter rail stop.

----------


## Geographer

> You may be right, but according to Joe C. all options are on the table.
> 
> All options would include the possibility of a new arena.


Athletics department is only allowed a certain amount of debt to revenue ratio. The athletics department is rather near the threshold so any project would be way down the line. OU is still paying off the east side upper deck and has a 30 year loan out on headington. It will be a while

----------


## ou48A

> Athletics department is only allowed a certain amount of debt to revenue ratio. The athletics department is rather near the threshold so any project would be way down the line. OU is still paying off the east side upper deck and has a 30 year loan out on headington. It will be a while


The debt on the east side of the stadium was reportedly restructured. Donations paid for a very large % of this construction.
The report at the time said that this debt would be paid off in full some time in 2011. 
This was reported in the local news media.
What are your sources?

Hedington Hall also recived sigifiacnt donations from several sources.
OU's athletic revenue / budget has risen by very significant amounts over the past several years.

----------


## ou48A

SoonerSports.com - Official Athletics Site of the Oklahoma Sooners - On Campus

An interesting statistic is that since the start of OU's great expectations campaign is that it has generated over 330 million dollars in donations for OU athletic causes.



Sooner Magazine, Summer 2010 -- Great Expectations Realized


Acording to this $70 million was raised for renovations and expansion to Gaylord Family Oklahoma Memorial Stadium, upgrades to the Barry Switzer Center football facility include a new locker room, upgraded training space and equipment areas, as well as high-tech meeting rooms and film rooms, and new coaches’ offices.

----------


## Bunty

> Wasn't that a part of T Boone Pickens rather massive donation a while back?


It covered the new Athletic Village part for sure.   The state is funding none of that.  It's all a big privately funded project with many other donors, other than Pickens.

----------


## BimmerSooner

OSU's dorms were privatized.  That's how it was funded. A company owns and operates them on behalf of the university.  OSU, by contract, will get full possession of them in 30 years.  Other universities have done similarly.  Boren stated, at the time, that he was not interested in doing that here.

----------


## Geographer

> The debt on the east side of the stadium was reportedly restructured. Donations paid for a very large % of this construction.
> The report at the time said that this debt would be paid off in full some time in 2011. 
> This was reported in the local news media.
> What are your sources?
> 
> Hedington Hall also recived sigifiacnt donations from several sources.
> OU's athletic revenue / budget has risen by very significant amounts over the past several years.


I won't reveal my sources, but the Athletics Department has a 30 year loan on Headington Hall, so even with all those contributions, there is still a sizeable amount to be paid.  There is still money out on the east side expansion as well, I don't know where the local media got that report from.

----------


## Zuplar

> OSU's dorms were privatized.  That's how it was funded. A company owns and operates them on behalf of the university.  OSU, by contract, will get full possession of them in 30 years.  Other universities have done similarly.  Boren stated, at the time, that he was not interested in doing that here.


This is what CU is doing with their newest student apartments.

----------


## HangryHippo

I wouldn't mind apartment living being taken over by a private entity, provided it was one with high standards.  The Traditions apartments that OU built are pretty disappointing and I believe a private company could do worlds better.  The dorm situation is probably better left to OU, but who knows.  If they'd level the towers and blocks south of there, that would open up TONS of land for private apartments and new dorms and whatever else OU saw fit to have built.

----------


## Geographer

> I wouldn't mind apartment living being taken over by a private entity, provided it was one with high standards.  The dorm situation is probably better left to OU, but who knows.  If they'd level the towers and blocks south of there, that would open up TONS of land for private apartments and new dorms and whatever else OU saw fit to have built.


Something that NEEDS to happen is leveling the terrible Kraettli apartments that mostly international students live in.  They are all ratty, create a super block, and have terrible overall design.  If these could be razed and some better apartment/village style living could be put there instead that would help a ton as well.  It's a great location, on the bus route, and not far from campus class buildings.

----------


## HangryHippo

> Something that NEEDS to happen is leveling the terrible Kraettli apartments that mostly international students live in.  They are all ratty, create a super block, and have terrible overall design.  If these could be razed and some better apartment/village style living could be put there instead that would help a ton as well.  It's a great location, on the bus route, and not far from campus class buildings.


Yep, those definitely need to go.  Along with the dorm towers, Sooner Suites, the Cate and Cross Centers, the Thurman White forum, hell even the Honors College needs a serious redo - all of that just needs to go and they need to start over and do it right.

And if they want to creep north across Lindsey St. and tear down the Dale Hall and Tower monstrosity and redo that, that's cool with me too.

----------


## Geographer

> Yep, those definitely need to go.  Along with the dorm towers, Sooner Suites, the Cate and Cross Centers, the Thurman White forum, hell even the Honors College needs a serious redo - all of that just needs to go and they need to start over and do it right.
> 
> And if they want to creep north across Lindsey St. and tear down the Dale Hall and Tower monstrosity and redo that, that's cool with me too.


..and the Physical Science center haha.

Basically anything built from 1960-1980.

But seriously, I don't think Dale Hall will be torn down anytime soon. It has too many big classrooms that would be hard to place elsewhere on campus in the mean time.  Dale Hall Tower just received a "renovation" as well.  I do like DHT for the views...I had Spanish IV at the top of DHT.

----------


## SoonerDave

Hey....curiosity here...

What's the typical monthly rate to live in the dorms at OU?

----------


## Geographer

It just depends on which dorm, but for the Towers it is $4,359 (which includes the meal plan cost of $1,973). So for roughly 4 months for room and food, its $1,089.75.

----------


## BG918

OU needs to update its master plan, and focus on revamping its student housing options.  Many other state universities are razing their old dorms and building on-campus student apartments, including OSU.  What would really create the demand for new housing would be OU making all freshmen AND sophomores live on campus, either in university or Greek housing.

Other than housing what are OU's primary needs as far as new or renovated facilities?
- Huffman Rec Center - renovation and aquatics center expansion
- Bizzell Library - renovation
- New science building - replacement for GL Cross
- New health center - replacement for Goddard on adjacent parking lot
- New larger social sciences/classroom building - possible replacement and expansion of Dale and Copeland Halls
- New engineering/technology building - new construction in the Engineering Quad along Jenkins
- New larger building for eTEc (Emerging Technology Entrepreneural Center) in Campus Corner; joint venture between OU and City of Norman
- Stadium west side upper deck renovation/expansion to match the east side completed in '03

----------


## Geographer

> OU needs to update its master plan, and focus on revamping its student housing options.  Many other state universities are razing their old dorms and building on-campus student apartments, including OSU.  What would really create the demand for new housing would be OU making all freshmen AND sophomores live on campus, either in university or Greek housing.
> 
> Other than housing what are OU's primary needs as far as new or renovated facilities?
> - Huffman Rec Center - renovation and aquatics center expansion
> - Bizzell Library - renovation
> - New science building - replacement for GL Cross
> - New health center - replacement for Goddard on adjacent parking lot
> - New larger social sciences/classroom building - possible replacement and expansion of Dale and Copeland Halls
> - New engineering/technology building - new construction in the Engineering Quad along Jenkins
> ...


I agree.  Some of those south oval buildings on the west side need to be revamped.  Hester Hall on Elm is currently being renovated.

----------


## HangryHippo

> ..and the Physical Science center haha.
> 
> Basically anything built from 1960-1980.
> 
> But seriously, I don't think Dale Hall will be torn down anytime soon. It has too many big classrooms that would be hard to place elsewhere on campus in the mean time.  Dale Hall Tower just received a "renovation" as well.  I do like DHT for the views...I had Spanish IV at the top of DHT.


Oh yeah, the blender needs to go.  But I'm pretty sure it just underwent a renovation too.

I don't think Dale Hall is going anywhere either.  It just wouldn't bother me AT ALL if it was dozed.  It does have some of the biggest classrooms on campus though, so they'd need new space before they even remotely seriously considered it.

Dale Hall Tower does have some very nice views!  I had Spanish up there as well and found myself more often than not just staring out the windows.

----------


## HangryHippo

> OU needs to update its master plan, and focus on revamping its student housing options.  Many other state universities are razing their old dorms and building on-campus student apartments, including OSU.  What would really create the demand for new housing would be OU making all freshmen AND sophomores live on campus, either in university or Greek housing.
> 
> Other than housing what are OU's primary needs as far as new or renovated facilities?
> - Huffman Rec Center - renovation and aquatics center expansion
> - Bizzell Library - renovation
> - New science building - replacement for GL Cross
> - New health center - replacement for Goddard on adjacent parking lot
> - New larger social sciences/classroom building - possible replacement and expansion of Dale and Copeland Halls
> - New engineering/technology building - new construction in the Engineering Quad along Jenkins
> ...


I'm really hoping OU and Boren start to really utilize the IQC and Blair Humphreys as they move forward renovating campus.  That's a phenomenal resource right on campus!

I agree with most of your suggestions, but how likely are these to happen?  Are these concrete ideas you've heard they're considering?  For example, they've been talking about redoing Goddard since at least 2002, but we see how much progress that has made.  And I would LOVE to see the eTEc move to Campus Corner, but I doubt Boren lets them leave the Research Campus.

----------


## BG918

eTec is already on Campus Corner, but in a small non-descript office building on Asp (where they want to build the new "high density apartments) as well as a second location with more warehouse/industrial space on University north of Main.  This is a great resource and business incubator for Norman that could be even larger with a new building, especially something mixed-use integrated into Campus Corner.  The research campus has their own incubators that are growing but are mainly for biotech and weather-related start-ups in the Partners buildings.

And those were just my ideas.  OU doesn't have any large projects currently proposed and I'm just speculating what the next round will be.  The campus has already been transformed by over a billion dollars in new construction over the past decade but there is still a lot that can be done to improve if OU wants to be an elite state university.

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## Spartan

It's all about the profit motive now..

----------


## ou48A

> I won't reveal my sources, but the Athletics Department has a 30 year loan on Headington Hall, so even with all those contributions, there is still a sizeable amount to be paid.  *There is still money out on the east side expansion as well*, I don't know where the local media got that report from.


 


Acording to this link 70 million was raised for renovations and expansion to Gaylord Family Oklahoma Memorial Stadium, upgrades to the Barry Switzer Center football facility include a new locker room, upgraded training space and equipment areas, as well as high-tech meeting rooms and film rooms, and new coaches offices.
Sooner Magazine, Summer 2010 -- Great Expectations Realized

According to this link.... Phase I of the expansion and renovation centered around a towering new east side that includes an upper deck, 27 luxury sky suites, the Kerr McGee Stadium Club and a club seating section. New perimeter fencing, a new scoreboard and clock tower, enlarged east and north concourse areas with improved amenities, and renovations to the press box and existing luxury suites were also high on the project list, along with plans to give the stadium exterior a major makeover of brick and glass. The projected price tag of the initial phase is $73 million, with Phase II costs expected to be near $10 million.
Total project cost for phase 1 & 2 = $83 million. 
University of Oklahoma Foundation, Inc. - Printer Friendly Version

That leaves 13 million to be financed. OU increased its football ticket prices by $5 a ticket to help pay for the expansion / improvements.
OU's budget has roughly tripled in the past 13 years.
When it comes to the stadium, for their to still be out standing bond debt for the east side project, it's something that just isn't adding up right for ther to still be bond debt on this?

----------


## Geographer

double post. oops

----------


## Geographer

> Acording to this link 70 million was raised for renovations and expansion to Gaylord Family Oklahoma Memorial Stadium, upgrades to the Barry Switzer Center football facility include a new locker room, upgraded training space and equipment areas, as well as high-tech meeting rooms and film rooms, and new coaches offices.
> Sooner Magazine, Summer 2010 -- Great Expectations Realized
> 
> According to this link.... Phase I of the expansion and renovation centered around a towering new east side that includes an upper deck, 27 luxury sky suites, the Kerr McGee Stadium Club and a club seating section. New perimeter fencing, a new scoreboard and clock tower, enlarged east and north concourse areas with improved amenities, and renovations to the press box and existing luxury suites were also high on the project list, along with plans to give the stadium exterior a major makeover of brick and glass. The projected price tag of the initial phase is $73 million, with Phase II costs expected to be near $10 million.
> Total project cost for phase 1 & 2 = $83 million. 
> University of Oklahoma Foundation, Inc. - Printer Friendly Version
> 
> That leaves 13 million to be financed. OU increased its football ticket prices by $5 a ticket to help pay for the expansion / improvements.
> OU's budget has roughly tripled in the past 13 years.
> When it comes to the stadium, for their to still be out standing bond debt for the east side project, it's something that just isn't adding up right for ther to still be bond debt on this?


I don't know what to tell ya, all I can tell you is that there is still money out on the east side expansion.

----------


## ou48A

> I don't know what to tell ya, all I can tell you is that there is still money out on the east side expansion.


Without telling me who your sources are can you tell me/ us why they would know any more than whats been publicly published?  
Because unless there is something I don't understand, and there may be, this just isn't adding up in my mind...

----------


## venture

> Without telling me who your sources are can you tell me/ us why they would know any more than whats been publicly published?  
> Because unless there is something I don't understand, and there may be, this just isn't adding up in my mind...


Just accept there are people more connected to you to the situation. I don't think he should risk himself by divulging information that isn't public. If you want to find out more, probably fill out a FOIA request.  :Smile:

----------


## ou48A

> Just accept there are people more connected to you to the situation. I don't think he should risk himself by divulging information that isn't public. If you want to find out more, probably fill out a FOIA request.


I do know that I know a lot more than you do on this and I do know that the public commits that I linked differ greatly from what he has said and I do know that I have some pretty decent personal and family contacts who could find out the truth with a phone call that any OU President  would answer in a second,, but I would never bug any of  them over such a trivial message board matter. :Tongue:

----------


## CuatrodeMayo

> I do know that I know a lot more than you do on this and I do know..







> I know you. You know you. And I know you know that I know you.

----------


## SoonerDave

Think we *may* be closer to hearing something about the west deck/press box stuff for OMS, at least I hear its "on the radar" again. What that means, exactly, is anyone's guess  :Smile:

----------


## Geographer

> Think we *may* be closer to hearing something about the west deck/press box stuff for OMS, at least I hear its "on the radar" again. What that means, exactly, is anyone's guess


Now this is definitely something I can give somewhat validity towards.

----------


## HangryHippo

> Think we *may* be closer to hearing something about the west deck/press box stuff for OMS, at least I hear its "on the radar" again. What that means, exactly, is anyone's guess


Why had it gone off the radar?  Money for other projects?  Lack of interest?

----------


## ou48A

> 


I almost didn't make that post because I knew how it would sound and  I knew somebody would respond with something like you did. 
But that's ok! LOL :Wink:

----------


## ou48A

> Think we *may* be closer to hearing something about the west deck/press box stuff for OMS, at least I hear its "on the radar" again. What that means, exactly, is anyone's guess


That's very good to hear, but how could that be...........?

_People are posting things on this thread like the “OU Athletics department is only allowed a certain amount of debt to revenue ratio” and “the athletics department is rather near the threshold so any project would be way down the line”_


If we are to believe these types of post OU wouldn’t have enough bond money room left to do very much on that size of scale. A major west side stadium project for OU would seem out of the question not to mention a new replacement for the LNC or it's renovation that would spend 10's of millions and where Joe C just said that all options were on the table.

----------


## SOONER8693

> Yep, those definitely need to go.  Along with the dorm towers, Sooner Suites, the Cate and Cross Centers, the Thurman White forum, hell even the Honors College needs a serious redo - all of that just needs to go and they need to start over and do it right.
> 
> And if they want to creep north across Lindsey St. and tear down the Dale Hall and Tower monstrosity and redo that, that's cool with me too.


And, I'm sure you'll be the first in line to pony up the money for those things to happen.

----------


## HangryHippo

> And, I'm sure you'll be the first in line to pony up the money for those things to happen.


You don't have the first clue about anything regarding me. 

But please feel free to continue making such valuable contributions.

----------


## venture

So many egos clashing in this thread...sigh.

Seems to be a sample of what Norman is going through. Shoving out the old guard (and old way of thinking) with the newer younger folks who will actually lead (and live in) the city going forward.

----------


## ou48A

> So many egos clashing in this thread...sigh.
> 
> Seems to be a sample of what Norman is going through. Shoving out the old guard (and old way of thinking) with the newer younger folks who will actually lead (and live in) the city going forward.


Some of us are not as old as you think....... and old people are living a lot long these days.
 Its the older people who have most of the money and thus most of the control...and they will have for a very long time. 
But by the time you reach retiermnet age soylent green will be in full force, which may not be all that bad for guys like you.

----------


## SoonerDave

> Why had it gone off the radar?  Money for other projects?  Lack of interest?


The project was next on the list in the 2008 time frame _just before the economy went in la toilette._ All the relevant donors necessary for such a project went right along with it, and Joe C was on the radio not long after that happened saying something to the effect of "We'll only undertake the press box project when it makes financial sense to do so." Mind you, that is _not_ intended to be a precise quote, but a good-faith paraphrase of a quote he made on the subject. 

I think the press box rebuild was the last major part of the original master plan that was assembled many years ago, right about the time Stoops came on board. The intervening five years have also caused other priorities to shift around, and the Headington Hall build was a huge project, so perhaps its taken that long to get the ducks to line up. And I suspect they may have different ideas on how to execute the press box project now, anyway. Last credible plan I heard (and it was a while ago) was for a teardown of the existing box and a rebuild featuring a combination VIP suite-media/press facility that would run the full length of the west upper deck. This would be very similar to what Nebraska has done.

I, for one, will be excited to see this project, if only because I remember (and have pictures of) them building the _existing_ press box as part of the west upper deck build with the STEP program in 1974. That was a big deal back in the day.  :Smile:

----------


## ou48A

> Athletics department is only allowed a certain amount of debt to revenue ratio. The athletics department is rather near the threshold so any project would be way down the line. OU is still paying off the east side upper deck and has a 30 year loan out on headington. *It will be a while*




This really sounds like a university’s athletic department who has nearly maxed out on it debt issuance capacity and not ready to do anything.


Oklahoma athletics: Joe Castiglione says more facilities upgrades on the way | News OK
Ryan Aber and Jason Kersey Published: July 31, 2013 

*CASTIGLIONE: MORE FACILITIES UPGRADES ON THE WAY*

Sooners football coach Bob Stoops said earlier this week that the *improvements to facilities at OU would continue.*

Oklahoma athletic director Joe Castiglione hinted at some of those improvements at Wednesday's Sooner Caravan stop at the Cox Convention Center.
Castiglione didn't give any specifics about upgrading Gaylord Family-Oklahoma Memorial Stadium but said improvements were on the way.
“We're thinking of ways to make it better,” Castiglione said. “We just haven't announced it yet.”


Castiglione also spoke of the study, announced in May, of potential upgrades to Lloyd Noble Center.
“We're looking at everything from the facilities that serve out student-athletes to something as radical as changing the seating bowl at Lloyd Noble Center,” Castiglione said. “That building's about to be 40 years old.”

----------


## SOONER8693

> You don't have the first clue about anything regarding me. 
> 
> But please feel free to continue making such valuable contributions.


Don't want to know a damn thing about you. But, please feel free to continue making comments about what should be done at OU, and we'll assume you're going to pony up the money for these projects. Now, go ask mommy if you can have some more milk and cookies.  You're excused.

----------


## Geographer

> This really sounds like a university’s athletic department who has nearly maxed out on it debt issuance capacity and not ready to do anything.
> 
> 
> Oklahoma athletics: Joe Castiglione says more facilities upgrades on the way | News OK
> Ryan Aber and Jason Kersey Published: July 31, 2013 
> 
> *CASTIGLIONE: MORE FACILITIES UPGRADES ON THE WAY*
> 
> Sooners football coach Bob Stoops said earlier this week that the *improvements to facilities at OU would continue.*
> ...


I can't tell you HOW I know, BUT I CAN PROMISE YOU THAT THE ATHLETICS DEPARTMENT IS CURRENTLY NEAR IT'S DEBT LIMIT. Geez. Joe C isn't in charge of the athletics finances.

----------


## onthestrip

OU fans arguing with each other...doesn't get much better than that.

----------


## ou48A

> I can't tell you HOW I know, BUT I CAN PROMISE YOU THAT THE ATHLETICS DEPARTMENT IS CURRENTLY NEAR IT'S DEBT LIMIT. Geez. Joe C isn't in charge of the athletics finances.


I seriously doubt that one of the very best athletic directors in the entire nation and his pretty successful head football coach would be spouting stuff about making major stadium improvements and major LNC improvements that would cost many, many millions if Boren and the Board of Regents even remotely disproved of Joe C's and Stoops commitments. They wouldn't say these things in front of many OU booster and fans if the financial picture was as bad as you say and they certainly would not be saying anything if the time line is as long as you indicated. That's not how these people operate.

Joe C is on public record of saying that OU will make improvements when it makes financial sense and I just happened to hear Joe C say that with my own ears.

Given everything that has been linked from published sources and from OU sources that would almost certainly know more than you about OU's athletic finances and with you lacking rock hard information it's not to difficult to not find what your indicating as not being creatable information.

Since this past spring reliable people have been indicating to me that OU would be building a new west side press box in about 3 years.

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## ou48A

> The project was next on the list in the 2008 time frame _just before the economy went in la toilette._ All the relevant donors necessary for such a project went right along with it, and Joe C was on the radio not long after that happened saying something to the effect of "We'll only undertake the press box project when it makes financial sense to do so." Mind you, that is _not_ intended to be a precise quote, but a good-faith paraphrase of a quote he made on the subject. 
> 
> I think the press box rebuild was the last major part of the original master plan that was assembled many years ago, right about the time Stoops came on board. The intervening five years have also caused other priorities to shift around, and the Headington Hall build was a huge project, so perhaps its taken that long to get the ducks to line up. And I suspect they may have different ideas on how to execute the press box project now, anyway. Last credible plan I heard (and it was a while ago) was for a teardown of the existing box and a rebuild featuring a combination VIP suite-media/press facility that would run the full length of the west upper deck. This would be very similar to what Nebraska has done.
> 
> I, for one, will be excited to see this project, if only because I remember (and have pictures of) them building the _existing_ press box as part of the west upper deck build with the STEP program in 1974. That was a big deal back in the day.


This post about what Joe C said is 100% spot on!

----------


## ou48A

> plus agenda item 18 a new master plan for the LNC 
> 
> ISSUE: LLOYD NOBLE CENTER MASTER PLAN  NC
> ACTION PROPOSED:
> President Boren recommends the Board of Regents:
> I. Rank in the order presented below architectural firms under consideration to
> provide professional services required for a master plan for the Lloyd Noble
> Center and for improvements at the facility;
> II. Authorize the University administration to negotiate the terms of an agreement
> ...


This post^ is worth a bump.
Would OU even be wasting money on a LNC study if they had no money to work with.

----------


## venture

> Joe C is on public record of saying that OU will make improvements when it makes financial sense and I just happened to hear Joe C say that with my own ears.
> ... ...
> Since this past spring reliable people have been indicating to me that OU would be building a new west side press box in about 3 years.


Which sounds a lot like "we are at our debt limit right now, but in a few years we'll have it paid down (and with additional booster support) that we'll be able to move forward with additional projects. I don't see Geo saying that OU is going to be capped out for the long term. They'll get it paid down a bit and move forward. 

The LNC portion is for the design/update for a master plan. I really don't see how this is that difficult to understand except for being stuck in a game of "i'm more connected than you are" which is really unbecoming of supposedly experienced and "mature" people. Sigh. LOL

----------


## ou48A

> Which sounds a lot like "we are at our debt limit right now, but in a few years we'll have it paid down (and with additional booster support) that we'll be able to move forward with additional projects. I don't see Geo saying that OU is going to be capped out for the long term. They'll get it paid down a bit and move forward. 
> 
> The LNC portion is for the design/update for a master plan. I really don't see how this is that difficult to understand except for being stuck in a game of "i'm more connected than you are" which is really unbecoming of supposedly experienced and "mature" people. Sigh. LOL


No is doesn’t.....Not even at all. You are really grasping for things that you have no clue about. Buut that's becoming a faily regualr occurrence for you and you let it bleed over into many of your threads.
You act posisive.

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## ou48A

The fact is that Joe C said OU will make improvements when it makes financial sense. This was said around the time of the great stock market crash... 


Many of the donors for the press box project backed out and waited for their investments to recover. Now most but not all are back on board.
Delaying the press box project in such uncertain times was the right decision... in the mean time the priority shifted to Hedington Hall and several other expensive projects that have been well underway.

Now that it makes better financial sense to move forward with the press box and LNC, not mention several other projects worth millions it doesnt paint a picture of an Athletic department in financial trouble particularly when you consider that the OU budget is at record levels and by comparison almost 20 million more than OSU who almost everybody thinks is rolling in money. 

With a very low cost of living in Norman, OU's athletic budget was in 9th place in the NCAA according to the most recent fingers and this is before OU's new TV revenue fully kicks in.
With the price of oil above 100 dollars it helps many of OU's major donors. With everything considered, there is absolutely nothing thats indicating any significant financial problems for OU athlitics!

----------


## Geographer

> This post^ is worth a bump.
> Would OU even be wasting money on a LNC study if they had no money to work with.


Here is my last comment on this:

1. OU always needs donations.  How do you get people excited to donate? You tell about all of the future things that OU is going to do and build.  Enter Joe C....gotta keep those donations rolling in
2.  The things that he says are probably going to happen, albeit not for a long time.
3.  Fact: OU's Athletics Department is near the legal allowable debt limit (in terms of projects) and this won't change for a few years if not for a while.

This is my last message on this subject..believe what you will.

----------


## ou48A

> Here is my last comment on this:
> 
> 1. OU always needs donations.  How do you get people excited to donate? You tell about all of the future things that OU is going to do and build.  Enter Joe C....gotta keep those donations rolling in


As its been for many decades the best way to get  most OU people to donate large sums of money back to the university is high oil and natural gas prices.

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## ou48A

> As its been for many decades the best way to get  most OU people to donate large sums of money back to the university is high oil and natural gas prices.


To add to this ^ post



Some of you may know about a collection of rare books about the history of science  at the OU Library.. The books were donated to OU by Everette DeGolyer who is considered by many to be the father of American geophysics. He graduated for OU in the 1910's. He made his money traveling the world looking for oil.

If you have ever been to the Dallas Arboretum and Botanical Gardens at White Rock lake, that’s his estate. It a very nice place that I highly recommend.
As a university, OU can trace it's roots of oil donations back to the 1910's that I am aware of.

----------


## venture

> No is doesn’t.....Not even at all. You are really grasping for things that you have no clue about. Buut that's becoming a faily regualr occurrence for you and you let it bleed over into many of your threads.
> You act posisive.


LOL.

There is really nothing more to add than what hasn't already been said. If you continue to ignore the facts then so be it.

----------


## ou48A

> LOL.
> 
> There is really nothing more to add than what hasn't already been said. If you continue to *ignore the facts* then so be it.


There are not facts on your side, none at all, at least not right now. 

It's just one random poster on a message board who you have decided to side with because you don't like me. Everything including some of the leading experts on the issue at OU points to something that's the exact opposite of what you belive to be fact ... It's one thing to have a difrent and oposing opinion but when you have become this dislusional over an issue that so one sided it really is time to break out the Loony Tunes music for the world you live in and the things you think are facts!







LOL

----------


## venture

> There are not facts on your side, none at all, at least not right now. 
> 
> It's just one random poster on a message board who you have decided to side with because you don't like me. Everything including some of the leading experts on the issue at OU points to something that's the exact opposite of what you belive to be fact ... It's one thing to have a difrent and oposing opinion but when you have become this dislusional over an issue that so one sided it really is time to break out the Loony Tunes music for the world you live in and the things you think are facts!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL


Sigh. Believe what you want.

----------


## ou48A

> Sigh. Believe what you want.


I will believe the facts and the informed opinions who are in charge of making things happen at OU who happen to have an outstanding record on these matters. 
For example... How many times has Joe C been recognized as the top AD in the nation? But those are inconvenient facts for a guy like you. He knows whats going on with OU athletic finances. But back to your Loony Tune world.

----------


## Martin

guys... this pissing contest is getting old.  knock it off.  disagreements are fine... but let's keep it civil and mature, ok?  -M

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## ou48A

_Please move on.  Thanks.

Pete_

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## ou48A

@SoonerSportsTV 16h
 If you were unable to attend tonight's @SoonerClub Caravan, we'll air it Thursday night at 7pm on @FSOklahoma:

----------


## dankrutka

26 Reasons Why The University Of Oklahoma Is The Best University To Ever Grace This Earth

----------


## Bunty

> 26 Reasons Why The University Of Oklahoma Is The Best University To Ever Grace This Earth


24. This is the main library: Bizzell. Have you ever seen something so gorgeous? It belongs in Disney World.



The OSU version.  Have OU fans ever seen something less gorgeous and so lame?

----------


## soonerguru

> I love this! Its part of the new Headington Hall at OU.
> 
> Its called the Guardian. Its a very nice touch IMHO.
> *


It's a replica of the statue atop the State Capitol, FYI.

----------


## onthestrip

> 24. This is the main library: Bizzell. Have you ever seen something so gorgeous? It belongs in Disney World.
> 
> 
> 
> The OSU version.  Have OU fans ever seen something less gorgeous and so lame?


Well when you compare a pic from the spring with nice clouds in the background with a cool photo filter to a winter pic without any filter...you can certainly make them look quite different.

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## dankrutka

OSU's building is nice, but I prefer Bizzell to any building on OSU's campus. I'm a little biased though. I helped write that article.

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## BG918

Private development continues at the OU Research Campus.  If they can also land the GE research facility that would be a major win.

New office complex being built in Norman | NewsOK.com

----------


## jedicurt

It's been a year since i was working with the OU Research Campus, but at that time, they were just waiting for the Ancor tenant for 5 Partners Place, and 6 Partners Place was in the early design phases.  so i'm sure they are well beyond that phase for it by now

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## ou48A

I thought the announcement for the new GE energy research center location was going to be made by now?
I would like to know what the hold up is... but I hope they are not have second thoughts about our area?
An OU location for this new GE venture gives the biggest bang possible to our entire state.

----------


## jedicurt

> I thought the announcement for the new GE energy research center location was going to be made by now?
> I would like to know what the hold up is... but I hope they are not have second thoughts about our area?
> An OU location for this new GE venture gives the biggest bang possible to our entire state.


I thought it was said that the site would be chosen in the next 6-9 months from the announcement, and it was just announced in April.  I don't think there is a hold up, we are only 4 and a half months out from the initial announcement.

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## ou48A

> I thought it was said that the site would be chosen in the next 6-9 months from the announcement, and it was just announced in April.  I don't think there is a hold up, we are only 4 and a half months out from the initial announcement.


I thought they said this summer?  but you are probably right! :Big Grin:

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## KayneMo

I took these a few weeks ago of Headington Hall:
IMAG5153.jpgIMG_20131002_180905.jpgIMG_20131002_180942.jpg

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## soonerliberal

I have to say the vast majority of buildings constructed in OU's 21st century building boom have been impressive.  There are always a couple exceptions, but it seems like the designs have almost always honored the Cherokee Gothic architecture with an occasional modern twist.

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## Pete

The interiors, gardens and landscaping have all been equally impressive.

The improvement just over the last 15 years or so has been incredible.  I love walking around and taking it all in.

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## SOONER8693

> Well when you compare a pic from the spring with nice clouds in the background with a cool photo filter to a winter pic without any filter...you can certainly make them look quite different.


The osu building is a very nice looking piece of architecture too.

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## BG918

Upcoming Norman campus projects where funds have been requested by the state or through private donations:

- *S. J. Sarkeys Complex Addition for Health and Exercise Science*: This project will consolidate Department of Health and Exercise Science faculty and students in one location with adequate space. The planned addition to the building will be sized to include approximately 19,550 gross square feet constructed to the south of the existing facility. The addition will provide new lab space, classrooms, and faculty offices, by expanding the existing basement and first floor. The project also includes modifications to the western faade that provides a new front entrance to the building off of Asp Avenue and ties the existing building into the new construction. The total estimated total project cost is $10,000,000.

- *Chemistry Building Renovation*: As new facilities for the Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry are constructed, spaces in existing facilities will be vacated and reprogrammed for other instructional and research uses. Renovation will be required to reconfigure space, upgrade building systems and improve accessibility. The estimated total project cost is approximately $10,000,000.

- *Biological Sciences Building*: Many of the teaching and research facilities utilized by the departments of Biology and Microbiology and Plant Biology, and the Oklahoma Biological Survey are outdated and insufficient to meet the needs of undergraduate teaching, research and current safety standards. In addition, the wide dispersal in multiple locations of the activities and faculty in the biological sciences is another significant impediment to accommodating dramatic growth in student numbers and the achievement of goals. The envisioned building would allow centralization of critical facilities and personnel. The plan would provide a new greenhouse and a superior learning environment for students including a new modern lecture hall, modernized research facilities, and open spaces for students, faculty and staff that will enhance opportunities for cross-disciplinary research collaborations and larger group projects.
The estimated total project cost is $80,000,000.

- *Life Sciences Center, Phase II*: This project will complete the program requirements necessary to support the instructional and research activities of the Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, and will ultimately consolidate and integrate the teaching and student services programs with the research programs to be constructed as Phase I. Phase II will contain approximately 100,000 gross square feet and will provide the department with state-of-the-art teaching laboratories for General, Analytical, Physical, Biological, Quantitative and Organic chemistry; teaching laboratory support and chemical stock room meeting the current life-safety requirements for storage and handling of hazardous materials; student advising and student services areas including an Information Commons, group study spaces and computer lab; and a 150-seat seminar auditorium. The project will also construct a parking structure. The estimated total project cost is $50,000,000.

- *Armory Renovation*: This project, with an estimated project cost of $12,000,000, will renovate the current Armory building to provide much needed and up-to-date classroom space required to teach classes in military science. The project will also make needed code, life safety and accessibility improvements to the building and update the buildings mechanical and electrical systems.

- *Multi-Tenant Light Industrial Facilities, Phase I*: This project will provide high bay light industrial space and office space for University research programs and which may be leased to entities wishing to locate near other technology resources at the University Research Campus. This phase will construct two pods, containing a total of approximately 73,000 gross square feet of space. Planning will include defined areas for additional pods. Necessary infrastructure and parking areas associated with the new buildings will also need to be constructed as part of the project. The estimated total project cost is approximately $16,000,000.

- Board of Regents minutes available online

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## ou48A

> - *Multi-Tenant Light Industrial Facilities, Phase I*: This project will provide high bay light industrial space and office space for University research programs and which may be leased to entities wishing to locate near other technology resources at the University Research Campus. This phase will construct two pods, containing a total of approximately 73,000 gross square feet of space. Planning will include defined areas for additional pods. Necessary infrastructure and parking areas associated with the new buildings will also need to be constructed as part of the project. The estimated total project cost is approximately $16,000,000.


What would this^ be for?
It almost sounds like something you would build for GE?

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## shavethewhales

> What would this^ be for?
> It almost sounds like something you would build for GE?


Haha, I don't think so. It sounds like they are building bay areas, like the EPF, but for research teams rather than competition teams. I know a lot of groups, such as the geotechs, who are always looking for more space, so this is a great idea. 

I really want to figure out how to bring up a refurbishment of Fears Lab to the reagents. It's an extremely valuable asset to the university and the state, but you sure wouldn't know it by looking at it. I would love for it to be fixed up to integrate it with the rest of the research campus, but I hear they're being given a hard time about it.

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## Pete

That list has been around for years and years and is part of a long-range plan.

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## BG918

The Biological Sciences at $80 million is intriguing.  I wonder where this would go?  Perhaps a replacement for GL Cross connecting to Richardson Hall?

It's also interesting to see all of the planned development of the research campus.  Hopefully there is a master plan for this growth.  I'm not a fan of how it has developed so far with so much surface parking and little cohesion tying the buildings together.

----------


## Pete

The Biological Sciences building is planned for the research campus.

----------


## catcherinthewry

> I have to say the vast majority of buildings constructed in OU's 21st century building boom have been impressive.  There are always a couple exceptions, but it seems like the designs have almost always honored the Cherokee Gothic architecture with an occasional modern twist.


What would be an exception?  I've liked everything they've done since 2000.  I've particularly liked the renovations they've done on the south oval.  Some of those buildings were butt ugly.

As for OU vs. OSU libraries, I've never been in OSU's library, but the reading room in Bizzell is beautiful.

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## catcherinthewry

416bd90742514b8366509ff6d64598eb.jpg

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## BG918

> The Biological Sciences building is planned for the research campus.


Bummer.  Not a fan of moving academic functions to the research campus.

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## KayneMo

View of Headington Hall from the Asp Avenue Parking Garage. I took this yesterday, March 28.

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## ou48A

OU has finally approved funding that would completely rebuild Imhoff road between Chautauqua and Jenkins. 
They said work would start in April and end this next August.
This stretch of road has been in poor condition for a long time.

I posted this on another thread but figured it was worth posting here. 
OU has approved 12 million dollars for storm shelter construction.

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## BG918

I was on campus yesterday and noticed they are progressing with the reconstruction of the south oval.  Brooks will be a pedestrian/bike path all the way across campus from Elm to Jenkins, and both sides of the oval will be ped/bike paths with car and bus traffic only on Asp.  It should be a really nice improvement when it's finished.

----------


## Pete

> I was on campus yesterday and noticed they are progressing with the reconstruction of the south oval.  Brooks will be a pedestrian/bike path all the way across campus from Elm to Jenkins, and both sides of the oval will be ped/bike paths with car and bus traffic only on Asp.  It should be a really nice improvement when it's finished.


Yes, that is called "Scholar's Walk":

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## BG918

Are the dedicated bike lanes part of this project, or is that a future phase?  I know they eventually want to have bike lanes on both sides of the south oval to connect to the dorms, and along the Brooks pedestrian mall.  These would also connect to the existing bike lanes on Asp that end at Lindsey (which will also get bike lanes) and future paths on the north oval and University Blvd.  I hope they paint them crimson like this rendering:

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## bombermwc

If they put a bike lane in, it needs to be outside of the space a car would be in. The second picture is what's wrong with adding bike lanes without doing actual construction. You put bikers on a road built for CARS, and don't give the cars adequate room for them to drive past each other with a biker on either side. You can't just leave an existing road-width there, you have to increase the width for it to work right. Otherwise you're just putting the biker into the position of feeling they have the right of way (which legally or not, the car always wins...you risk your own life but if I were riding the bike, I'd always let the car be the winner), and you get a large car (say a box truck) and lets just see what happens. 

And if the bikes are going to be on the ROAD, which was built for CARS, then they need to follow the traffic laws. That means either you stay on the sidewalk and use the cross walk, or you wait for the light to turn green. But you don't get to just have it your way whenever you feel like changing it up. If you do, you should get a ticket.

I'm not opposed to bike lanes or bikers. I just don't want them on the road. I want them where they should be, which is a dedicated lane. I am opposed to the crap-faces (which are not all of them) that think that because they are on a bike, that they don't have to follow any rules but their own.

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## Spartan

> I'm not opposed to bike lanes or bikers. I just don't want them on the road.  I am opposed to the crap-faces (which are not all of them) that think that...


Typical bomber...

----------


## Snowman

> If they put a bike lane in, it needs to be outside of the space a car would be in. The second picture is what's wrong with adding bike lanes without doing actual construction. You put bikers on a road built for CARS, and don't give the cars adequate room for them to drive past each other with a biker on either side. You can't just leave an existing road-width there, you have to increase the width for it to work right. Otherwise you're just putting the biker into the position of feeling they have the right of way (which legally or not, the car always wins...you risk your own life but if I were riding the bike, I'd always let the car be the winner), and you get a large car (say a box truck) and lets just see what happens. 
> 
> And if the bikes are going to be on the ROAD, which was built for CARS, then they need to follow the traffic laws. That means either you stay on the sidewalk and use the cross walk, or you wait for the light to turn green. But you don't get to just have it your way whenever you feel like changing it up. If you do, you should get a ticket.
> 
> I'm not opposed to bike lanes or bikers. I just don't want them on the road. I want them where they should be, which is a dedicated lane. I am opposed to the crap-faces (which are not all of them) that think that because they are on a bike, that they don't have to follow any rules but their own.


No mater if it is marked a bike lane or not, bikes have the right to be there, you usually only see shared lanes marked on roads without a passing lane that are around 25 miles an hour anyway and are probably residential

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## Plutonic Panda

> If they put a bike lane in, it needs to be outside of the space a car would be in. The second picture is what's wrong with adding bike lanes without doing actual construction. You put bikers on a road built for CARS, and don't give the cars adequate room for them to drive past each other with a biker on either side. You can't just leave an existing road-width there, you have to increase the width for it to work right. Otherwise you're just putting the biker into the position of feeling they have the right of way (which legally or not, the car always wins...you risk your own life but if I were riding the bike, I'd always let the car be the winner), and you get a large car (say a box truck) and lets just see what happens. 
> 
> And if the bikes are going to be on the ROAD, which was built for CARS, then they need to follow the traffic laws. That means either you stay on the sidewalk and use the cross walk, or you wait for the light to turn green. But you don't get to just have it your way whenever you feel like changing it up. If you do, you should get a ticket.
> 
> I'm not opposed to bike lanes or bikers. I just don't want them on the road. I want them where they should be, which is a dedicated lane. I am opposed to the crap-faces (which are not all of them) that think that because they are on a bike, that they don't have to follow any rules but their own.


I agree. Oh, and this is coming from someone who bikes everyday. Bicyclists need to learn to stay to the side of the road and not take up an entire lane.

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## mugofbeer

> I agree. Oh, and this is coming from someone who bikes everyday. Bicyclists need to learn to stay to the side of the road and not take up an entire lane.


In bike-friendly Denver, bikers have the same right to be on the road as others.  What they so-ofter forget is that the law also requires them to stay to the right if there is room.  I've had a verbal or 2 with those who ride at a leisurely pace holding up traffic behind yet have plenty of opps to move right.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> In bike-friendly Denver, bikers have the same right to be on the road as others.  What they so-ofter forget is that the law also requires them to stay to the right if there is room.  I've had a verbal or 2 with those who ride at a leisurely pace holding up traffic behind yet have plenty of opps to move right.


Well, that's what I mean, some bikers seem to think they own the road and act like jackasses taking up an entire lane and hold up traffic and just piddle along.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> Well, that's what I mean, some bikers seem to think they own the road and act like jackasses taking up an entire lane and hold up traffic and just piddle along.


I have no problems with bikers in the lane. The only problem I have is when they do not obey the runs of the road. Such as not stopping at stop signs or signalling. I am a biker myself and  I try my best to stay on the right and obey the rules. It really isn't too hard.

----------


## ou48A

> Well, that's what I mean, some bikers seem to think they own the road and act like jackasses taking up an entire lane and hold up traffic and just piddle along.


It sure seems like its those types of bikers who have a greater tendency to be struck and killed. 
I have known 2 bikers that had "the bikers attitude" that have been killed... 
One of them was turn into a grease spot by a Mac truck.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> It sure seems like its those types of bikers who have a greater tendency to be struck and killed. 
> I have known 2 bikers that had "the bikers attitude" that have been killed... 
> One of them was turn into a grease spot by a Mac truck.


Yeap, ultimately physics will determine who has the right of way.

----------


## Geographer

For every 1 stupid bike rider, there are 200 stupid car drivers.

 :Wink:

----------


## ou48A

> For every 1 stupid bike rider, there are 200 stupid car drivers.


Maybe so, but how often will the bike rider do well in the car -vs- bike collisions?

----------


## ou48A

> Yeap, ultimately physics will determine who has the right of way.


Yep... there have been more than a few times when the law just isn't going to protect bike riders.

----------


## mugofbeer

There really are  ton of bike riders in central Denver and all power to them.   I'd be cool with it if there was a dedicated street or 2 for bikers and local traffic just to keep them off the main roads.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> For every 1 stupid bike rider, there are 200 stupid car drivers.


Probably because there are 1000x more car drivers than there are bike riders period.

----------


## bombermwc

> Typical bomber...


I stand by it, and looks like other agree with me. 

You can argue bike rules all you want, but like Plutonic and OU said, "knowing" you are right when it's a fight between a car and a bike means nothing, but that you're dead or at least injured. I don't want to keep bikes away, I want them placed where they should be...where they are safe. So don't put words into my mouth...remember, you're setting yourself up to fight with the person that supports people getting off their butt and walking. I just don't think that shoving a stripe of paint on an existing road counts. It's just a cheap-butt way of saying you're bike-friendly without having to fork it over for it to be done proper.

Do 5 minutes of google searching on bike lanes and you'll see what it SHOULD be like, and you WON'T see this OU style plan anywhere there. What you will see, is what I'm talking about. A separate lane that does NOT take away space from the car. Either do it proper, or let them stay on the sidewalk and make them follow sidewalk rules.

----------


## Mississippi Blues

> Probably because there are 1000x more car drivers than there are bike riders period.


Really? That's why I see more cars than I do bicycles, I guess. I couldn't figure that out, but this makes so much sense. LOL

----------


## Snowman

> Do 5 minutes of google searching on bike lanes and you'll see what it SHOULD be like, and you WON'T see this OU style plan anywhere there. What you will see, is what I'm talking about. A separate lane that does NOT take away space from the car. Either do it proper, or let them stay on the sidewalk and make them follow sidewalk rules.


Are you saying walking? Cause bikes should not be ridden on the sidewalk, the one with it in the lane may just be a reminder to the cars as much as a recommendation to promote bike use, plus even if it was not marked a shared lane it is not exuding bikes from using that road anyway.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Really? That's why I see more cars than I do bicycles, I guess. I couldn't figure that out, but this makes so much sense. LOL


Yeah I know, it's kind of shocking at first, but when you realize it, it all comes together.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Are you saying walking? Cause bikes should not be ridden on the sidewalk, the one with it in the lane may just be a reminder to the cars as much as a recommendation to promote bike use, plus even if it was not marked a shared lane it is not exuding bikes from using that road anyway.


I believe it is pretty clear what Bombermwc is saying. Bikes should not take up space from cars  and I agree. They need to their own separate lanes on certain streets.

----------


## Mississippi Blues

> Yeah I know, it's kind of shocking at first, but when you realize it, it all comes together.


Man. No joke. At first, I thought you were full of it, but then I got to thinking and what you said seems pretty logical. +2 street creds for you! Haha

----------


## TAlan CB

> For every 1 stupid bike rider, there are 200 stupid car drivers.


No doubt this is true, numbers alone would dictate this is true.  Having said this, the problem lies in physics and 'common sense'.  The same argument I have with pedestrians crossing outside the crosswalk or whenever they want.  They may have the 'right of way' or live where this is common - like university towns - but the car will win every time.  Common sense tells you that your 'rights' do you little good when your dead.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Man. No joke. At first, I thought you were full of it, but then I got to thinking and what you said seems pretty logical. +2 street creds for you! Haha


No problem.  :Smile:

----------


## catcherinthewry

In an attempt to get back on topic, I was on campus last weekend and checked out the construction on the South Oval.  I really like the idea of making it pedestrian only.  Gaylord Hall is a nice addition and the remake of Gould hall is spectacular.  The new facade on Collings Hall is an improvement, but nothing special.  I'm ready for a remake of Gittinger and Kaufman, those are two of the ugliest buildings on campus.  Overall I like what they've done on the South Oval, but it wouldn't take much to improve it because most of those buildings were hideous.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

> In an attempt to get back on topic, I was on campus last weekend and checked out the construction on the South Oval.  I really like the idea of making it pedestrian only.  Gaylord Hall is a nice addition and the remake of Gould hall is spectacular.  The new facade on Collings Hall is an improvement, but nothing special.  I'm ready for a remake of Gittinger and Kaufman, those are two of the ugliest buildings on campus.  Overall I like what they've done on the South Oval, but it wouldn't take much to improve it because most of those buildings were hideous.


They are both getting 5million dollar renovations actually. Just approved by the BOR.  or I think that's what this article says. Talks about it on the 2nd page. 

Professor honored, shelters discussed  University  The Norman Transcript

----------


## Pete

Yep!

Great news:




> Gittinger Hall renovation and improvements, $5 million
> 
>  Kaufman Hall renovations and improvements, $5 million

----------


## BG918

And after those buildings are renovated then they can address GL Cross.  OU needs a modern life sciences building on campus.  I know they've discussed building a new facility on the south campus but I think moving any classes down there is a bad idea.  Research is fine and belongs there, and meteorology because of the NWC.  

After that I would hope Dale would be the next target for a major reconstruction.  It's already too small for the number of students and classes at peak times.  They could easily tear down Copeland Hall and expand the building to the north.  This would also be a good place for a future parking garage on the surface lot along Elm.

----------


## KayneMo

^This semester in my 4th year architecture studio, my class was divided into two sections that are doing two different projects. The section I'm not in are doing parking garages to go in place of the parking lot at Elm and Lindsey, varying from around 5-8 stories tall, with retail and office space fronting Elm and as tall as the garage as well. Some pretty cool designs they are doing!

----------


## BG918

KayneMO, if you could post some pictures that would be awesome.  I'm an OU architecture grad and wish I could see the projects on display in the gallery , but you can't get into Gould without a card, unless that's recently changed.

----------


## Geographer

> KayneMO, if you could post some pictures that would be awesome.  I'm an OU architecture grad and wish I could see the projects on display in the gallery , but you can't get into Gould without a card, unless that's recently changed.


You can get into Gould on weekdays at normal hours during the day. It's locked late at night and on the weekends.

----------


## YO MUDA

OU has finally approved funding that would completely rebuild Imhoff road between Chautauqua and Jenkins. 
 They said work would start in April and end this next August.
 This stretch of road has been in poor condition for a long time.  
I have been hearing for the last 15 years that they are going to tie in Imhoff  with Constitution and do away with one of the signal lights. Makes sence after the demolished the 100 block of Krattlli apartments.

----------


## G.Walker

Five Partners Place, OU Research Park:

----------


## Eddie1

Beautiful building.

----------


## YO MUDA

Looks taller in person.

----------


## dankrutka

Dean Blevins (take it with a grain of salt) says OU is expanding the stadium by bowling it in and replacing the press box to the tune of $350-400 million (!!!!!): EXCLUSIVE: OU Set To Announce Football Stadium Expansion - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

----------


## Pete

^

Nothing on the Regent's agenda about the stadium -- it was just released.


They did add the following to the list of capital projects:


29 Student Housing Expansion, Residential Colleges: The proposed project implements the first phase of a master plan to upgrade the University’s aging housing facilities. The proposed new facilities will house approximately 600 students in a mix of room, suite, and semi-suite configurations. The project will include dining, faculty housing, student lounge areas, and other organizational and academic amenities utilizing the “Residential College” community model. The project will expand OU's existing housing options and attract more upperclassmen to on-campus housing by offering unique and highly attractive academic and social opportunities. Further, expansion of student housing facilities will help meet current market demand by reducing density in existing residence halls and adding resident advisor rooms and community spaces; and will address the significant demand for on-campus apartment beds among single upper-division and graduate students. The budget for the project is $100,000,000 with funding identified from private sources and bond proceeds. 

30 Physics and Astronomy Facilities: The proposed project will provide new research facilities for the Department of Physics and Astronomy to replace obsolete laboratories and laboratory support spaces within Nielsen Hall. The project will include state-of-the-art National Institute of Standards and Technology standard research laboratories to support further current and future research efforts. The facility will also provide new office space and may include spaces for science display and classrooms. The preliminary budget is $20,000,000 with funding from private sources and bond proceeds. 

31 Kaufman Hall and Gittinger Hall Improvements: The academic buildings that house the Department of Modern Languages, Literatures and Linguistics and the Department English need exterior improvements to complement the established University of Oklahoma architectural vernacular. In addition, interior renovations are needed to create and improve student and faculty common areas for both departments. Construction projects may be developed utilizing a phased approach. The estimated total project cost is approximately $10,000,000, with funding from private sources and bond proceeds. 

32 Cate Center #2 Renovation: The Cate Center #2 project will convert this facility from residential to academic use. The renovated facility will house classrooms, faculty and staff offices, conference rooms, and other support spaces. The project will address life safety and code issues including accessibility, emergency egress, and replacement of HVAC and plumbing systems. An elevator will be added, new energy-efficient windows will be installed, and the building’s roof will be replaced. The estimated project cost is $8,000,000, with funding from bond proceeds. 

34 Stubbeman Place Improvements: This two-story, multi-tenant building located on the west edge of OU’s main campus near the residence halls is currently occupied predominantly by retail enterprises. Planned improvements include roof replacement with removal of the lower slope of the mansard roof, reconfiguring and landscaping the parking lot, installation of an irrigation system, burying utilities, and moving lower level storefronts on the east side to the front edge of the building. The estimated total project budget is $3,500,000, with funding from bond proceeds. 

36 Parking Expansion (Garages): New structured parking will be constructed to replace parking spaces lost to expansion of student housing. It is anticipated that approximately 1,000 spaces could be constructed. The estimated total project cost is $17,000,000, to be funded from bond proceeds. 

50 Bizzell Memorial Library Master Plan Project(s): The Bizzell Memorial Library Master Plan Study has developed a series of phased projects to bring the library to the forefront as a crossroads leader for intellectual and research study at the University of Oklahoma and the world community at large. A phased renovation of the entire 336,000 square foot facility will be required to achieve the desired mix of collaborative, research, reading, seminar, technology and collection storage spaces, with special attention given to preserve the National Historic Landmark status of the original 1928 building. The project will replace and update the facility’s major mechanical, electrical and data systems to support the new and expanded programs and to address the some deferred maintenance issues with the building’s envelope. The estimated total project cost is $70,000,000.

----------


## BG918

> 29 Student Housing Expansion, Residential Colleges: The proposed project implements the first phase of a master plan to upgrade the University’s aging housing facilities. The proposed new facilities will house approximately 600 students in a mix of room, suite, and semi-suite configurations. The project will include dining, faculty housing, student lounge areas, and other organizational and academic amenities utilizing the “Residential College” community model. The project will expand OU's existing housing options and attract more upperclassmen to on-campus housing by offering unique and highly attractive academic and social opportunities. Further, expansion of student housing facilities will help meet current market demand by reducing density in existing residence halls and adding resident advisor rooms and community spaces; and will address the significant demand for on-campus apartment beds among single upper-division and graduate students. The budget for the project is $100,000,000 with funding identified from private sources and bond proceeds.


I wonder if the parking lots west of Headington Hall would be where they would start with this expansion, in the same style?  I've always thought they should eventually just replace Cate, and that the current upgrades and conversion to offices/classrooms are more of a temporary fix until they have the funding to build additional residence halls in their place.

----------


## Pete

^

I'm pretty sure that's where the new housing will go.

----------


## LocoAko

> ^
> 
> I'm pretty sure that's where the new housing will go.


Article about the residential housing: Boren wants "residential college" housing options for OU students  New and Developing  The Norman Transcript

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Planning For OU Tornado Shelters Nears Completion - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

----------


## bombermwc

Glad to see Kauffman and Gittinger getting something. They've sort of been left out of the renovation wagon for far too long.

----------


## HangryHippo

Pete, in regards to the new housing fronting Lindsey St, have you heard about a timeline for those residential colleges?  Since the funding has been identified, does that mean work will start on those within a year?

----------


## Pete

> Pete, in regards to the new housing fronting Lindsey St, have you heard about a timeline for those residential colleges?  Since the funding has been identified, does that mean work will start on those within a year?


I don't know.

The university issued an official press release about this just 3 days ago so you would think they would be getting started soon.

I'm looking forward to seeing the renderings.  I'm sure it/they will be similar to Headinton Hall, but probably not as tall.

----------


## HangryHippo

> I don't know.
> 
> The university issued an official press release about this just 3 days ago so you would think they would be getting started soon.
> 
> I'm looking forward to seeing the renderings.  I'm sure it/they will be similar to Headinton Hall, but probably not as tall.


It seems odd to me that they were obviously considering this site on Lindsey long before now, yet they built that new steam and chilled water plant right behind where these new colleges will go. That will be a lame view.

----------


## Pete

^

It had to go somewhere close so it can efficiently distribute to all the big buildings on campus.

It's really in the middle of that block and I'm sure it will eventually be surrounded on all sides by new development.

In the near future, it will be far less noticeable.

----------


## BG918

The aquatics center expansion at the Huffman included the energy plant in its plans.  I don't know the current status of that project but it was proposed as an outdoor pool with lazy river and water slides on the north side of Huffman and immediately east of the CUP to Jenkins with an indoor pool built just to the south onto the east side of Huffman.  So these new residence halls will basically surround the Huffman and future aquatics center.

----------


## bombermwc

Ugh, these apartment style residential spaces are so inefficient! I realize that's what everyone is going with these days, but I wish more people would build UP instead of out. You can still have the apartment style and not be stuck with a 3 story building....BLEH! In an area where land is a premium, and access to campus is a HUGE deal, I just don't understand the sprawling complex methodology. 

OCU's newest residential hall was a great example on a smaller scale (although it had the benefit of being built into a hill). parking garage below, residential above. It's only 4 floors, but they chose to build that way instead of the way Cokesbury was built across the street in the now-common suburban apartment complex style. 

Sometimes I feel like OU suffers from having too much open space on its hands...but it always seems to be in the wrong place.

----------


## HangryHippo

> Ugh, these apartment style residential spaces are so inefficient! I realize that's what everyone is going with these days, but I wish more people would build UP instead of out. You can still have the apartment style and not be stuck with a 3 story building....BLEH! In an area where land is a premium, and access to campus is a HUGE deal, I just don't understand the sprawling complex methodology. 
> 
> OCU's newest residential hall was a great example on a smaller scale (although it had the benefit of being built into a hill). parking garage below, residential above. It's only 4 floors, but they chose to build that way instead of the way Cokesbury was built across the street in the now-common suburban apartment complex style. 
> 
> Sometimes I feel like OU suffers from having too much open space on its hands...but it always seems to be in the wrong place.


Just out of curiosity, have you seen renderings or anything that shows it will be 3 stories?

----------


## bombermwc

I don't mean that the OU ones will be 3 floors, but 5 or 6 is still too short for me. When they're building things to replace the units at the towers, anything short of a new tower is going to make use of the land more poorly. It's the out vs. up thing that bugs me. OSU did the same thing when they dozed Kerr/Drummon and Willham. The sheer extra cost of exteriors is HUGE for that many small structures in comparison. Think about the number of roofs to shingle compared to a single tower's. There's no reason an apartment floor deck can't be put into a tower. Heck, it's done every day with residential towers all over the world. But it does mean they have to raise a lot more money for a larger grand project. These dinky little ones can go in more cheaply for sure. But the long-term costs don't seem good to me.

Norman is in no short supply of this same type of structure, so I also don't see the point in OU getting in the game. Places like Traditions have been around for 20 years as student-oriented living with shuttle busses and the like. With converting some of the oldest residential halls to classroom space with this new plan is great (had a cousin in one of those about 5 years ago...BLEH!...way worse than the towers), but right now those butts are just going out to those sprawled apartments further away from campus. I really just wish they were doing more to compact the campus down more to make it more walkable. The closer you live to the class, the easier it is to walk. Instead, OU seems to be supporting the idea of a localized commuter with all those dang shuttles.

----------


## BG918

I think the long term vision for OU is to have more student housing along Lindsey across from campus.  Headington Hall set the standard for future developments in this area, and they will likely be 5-6 stories each.  I doubt we'll see any more Traditions-like apartments built by OU.  Though there are private developers still building them in Norman.

----------


## bombermwc

Hopefully they all go at least like Headington. It's still a bit shorter than I'd prefer, but at least it's closer than some of the options students had. And I will say, as OU bought up some of those properties that were actual complexes, at least they've worked to remove them in lieu of better structures like Headington.

Very true on the private development thing. It's unfortunate, to me, that there are so many already. But there really isn't anything OU can do about those. I just hope, as you say, that OU won't build any more like it.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

University of Oklahoma to build residential colleges | News OK

----------


## BG918

2 new parking garages planned.  Any idea where these will be located?  The article says north and south of Lindsey and the only places I can think of are the surface lots by Dale Hall on Elm and somewhere by the dorms.

New parking garage funded by permit increases - - Mobile

----------


## Plutonic Panda

That's nice. I really wish they would build a parking garage for UCO.

----------


## Rover

> That's nice. I really wish they would build a parking garage for UCO.


Why would OU build a parking garage for UCO?

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Why would OU build a parking garage for UCO?


They wouldn't. That wasn't what I meant. I was just speaking in general saying I'm glad OU is building structured parking and I wish UCO would do the same.

----------


## HangryHippo

> 2 new parking garages planned.  Any idea where these will be located?  The article says north and south of Lindsey and the only places I can think of are the surface lots by Dale Hall on Elm and somewhere by the dorms.
> 
> New parking garage funded by permit increases - - Mobile


I think I read something awhile back that said one of the new garages was going on the surface lot just north of the swim complex, but I don't know if that's still the plan.

----------


## Geographer

> I think I read something awhile back that said one of the new garages was going on the surface lot just north of the swim complex, but I don't know if that's still the plan.


I believe the long term plan is to have the garage north of the swim complex and have that area wrapped around with new dorms similar to headington hall.

----------


## Pete

Looks like the Schloar's Walk -- basically closing off the remaining street on the South Oval -- is complete:

----------


## soonerliberal

> Looks like the Schloar's Walk -- basically closing off the remaining street on the South Oval -- is complete:


Love this!  One of my very favorite things about OU's Norman campus is the walkability.  It is really nice and fairly rare (even among East Coast universities) to be able walk from the dorms and only cross one street in order to get to nearly any building on campus.  As a pedestrian, you can easily go from Boyd to Lindsey without having to cross traffic.  They have done an outstanding job keeping/moving vehicular traffic and parking largely to the periphery of the campus (outside of Asp Ave, which isn't even a full thoroughfare).

----------


## mugofbeer

The changes they have made at OU since I was there in the late 70's are really wonderful.  The main campus is truly beautiful.  Now if we can just get the town of Norman to start allowing some urbanish multi-unit housing projects to be built, Norman will really start to stand out.

----------


## BG918

> The changes they have made at OU since I was there in the late 70's are really wonderful.  The main campus is truly beautiful.  Now if we can just get the town of Norman to start allowing some urbanish multi-unit housing projects to be built, Norman will really start to stand out.


Agree 100%.  Hopefully that change starts in Campus Corner as that area north of campus to downtown is ripe for higher density, and more varied retail and restaurant options.

----------


## kevinpate

> The changes they have made at OU since I was there in the late 70's are really wonderful.  The main campus is truly beautiful.  Now if we can just get the town of Norman to start allowing some urbanish multi-unit housing projects to be built, Norman will really start to stand out.


Now, saying Norman needs 'to start' seems a bit of an unfair suggestion.  There are a few built here and there, some dating back a few years.

----------


## BG918

$500 million fundraising campaign launched part of which will fund the construction of the two new residential colleges that will be similar in size and appearance to Headington Hall, along Lindsey between Jenkins and Asp.  The article mentions that this will include an attached parking garage behind.  

OU sets 'Live On, University' fundraising goal at $500 million | NewsOK.com

I'm curious how this will interact with proposed improvements to the Huffmam Center to the south, especially the outdoor pool that was planned for the north side.  That could be a really cool complex for students with the residence halls surrounding the pool and Huffman, right across the street from campus.

----------


## Pete

^

When I saw the big price tag for the stadium improvements, I knew Boren would launch something similar for academics.

Between these two campaigns, looks like they'll be trying to raise about a billion dollars.

----------


## kevinpate

> ... Between these two campaigns, looks like they'll be trying to raise about a billion dollars.


No problems there. President Boren and his development folk definitely know how to get wallets cracked open,

----------


## RnRFun

> No problems there. President Boren and his development folk definitely know how to get wallets cracked open,


And there's been some shake ups in Development to get things rolling.

----------


## soonerliberal

The 25 most beautiful college campuses in America

----------


## Pete

Ha!

Both my alma maters are on that list.   :Smile: 


Any such ranking is highly subjective but hard to leave out UCLA or Stanford, two of my absolute favorites and I've seen a ton of campuses.

----------


## catcherinthewry

Where's Faber?

----------


## BG918

There's a rendering of the proposed residential colleges in the most recent OU Foundation newsletter.  I'll see if I can find a digital copy and post it.  Looks amazing, just like Headington Hall along Lindsey between Jenkins and Asp on the parking lot there north of the Huffman Center and South Energy Plant .

----------


## LocoAko

> There's a rendering of the proposed residential colleges in the most recent OU Foundation newsletter.  I'll see if I can find a digital copy and post it.  Looks amazing, just like Headington Hall along Lindsey between Jenkins and Asp on the parking lot there north of the Huffman Center and South Energy Plant .


This?



https://www.oufoundation.org/pn2/

----------


## Pete

Wow!!  Amazing.

----------


## BG918

> This?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.oufoundation.org/pn2/


That's the one, thanks.  This will be a great project.  The next step will be to eventually replace Cate Center to the west with something similar. 

You can see there is still some of the parking lot still visible next to the Huffman in the rendering.  That is where the aquatics center will be located.

----------


## mugofbeer

Whoa!  Nice!

----------


## KayneMo

Wow!

----------


## catcherinthewry

Has anyone heard a start date?

----------


## BG918

> Has anyone heard a start date?


OU is currently raising money for this project.  Just like the stadium they will start once they have sufficient funds and the design is finalized.  More on the project:

_The residential college concept was created at Oxford University and Cambridge University in the United Kingdom and has proven successful at colleges and universities in the United States. OU is the first university in the state and Big 12 and one of the first public universities to adopt this model. The colleges will have their own dining rooms, study areas and intramural teams, crests and mottos. Ten faculty fellows will have offices in the colleges and seminar rooms will also be included. Parking will be located nearby.

The proposed new housing facilities will accommodate approximately 600 students in a mix of room, suite and semi-suite configurations. The facilities will including dining, faculty housing, student lounge areas and other organizational and academic amenities._

----------


## YO MUDA

Hopefully soon, so the Landscape Dept. can move out of its mouse infested, asbestos building.

----------


## dankrutka

Interesting move by OU to pair up with the History Channel for what is essentially a MOOC. Thoughts? https://historychannel.ou.edu/

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Norman City Council approves high density apartment complex despite protests | News OK

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

> Norman City Council approves high density apartment complex despite protests | News OK


thats great news.  Bishop Landing is garbage.

----------


## AP

^Does anyone have the plans for that development?

----------


## LocoAko

> ^Does anyone have the plans for that development?


http://www.normanok.gov/filebrowser_...20American.pdf

----------


## Pete

Nice!

Will lessen need for parking on OU campus and bring much more life to Campus Corner.

I'm surprised someone hasn't done something like this to the north of Campus Corner.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

pssshhhhhh. How dare they building that ugly thing next to those low density houses. Next thing you know, Norman will become like Tokyo.

----------


## dankrutka

So awesome, overdue, and needed. Absolute home run.

----------


## Pete

I'd really like to see the east and north side of the campus get developed because at some point the train station near Main will be within walking distance of many, which will hasten the commuter rail from Norman to downtown OKC.

It would benefit the university and City greatly to have a much stronger link, and the rail line would go a long way towards that.

----------


## shavethewhales

That's great to hear that they approved it despite "protests". Those objecting about this simply don't know what they're talking about. Bishop's Landing is a ####-hole that needs to go, and this high quality development will be a huge improvement to the area. So maybe there will be a handful more cars, but that's going to keep happening anyway as the area and university grows. People nearby are just freaking out about the words "high-density" being used with this project. If the developers had been more careful with their wording and presentation I think they would have been spared some headaches. 

Hopefully once this project gets off the ground and is successful, we can see more of the same to the north and near campus corner.

----------


## Geographer

Pete,

The City and OU/IQC are in the process of working on a "Central City Norman" vision for this area you are talking about, so I would think development would shortly follow.

It's great to see that nasty complex getting demolished!

----------


## HangryHippo

> Pete,
> 
> The City and OU/IQC are in the process of working on a "Central City Norman" vision for this area you are talking about, so I would think development would shortly follow.
> 
> It's great to see that nasty complex getting demolished!


Geographer, are you still in Norman or did you move to Dallas?

----------


## Geographer

> Geographer, are you still in Norman or did you move to Dallas?


I moved down to DFW last summer for a job.

----------


## kevinpate

Perhaps the next folk proposing such a project might highlight it as being optimally accessible rather than being high density.

----------


## bombermwc

I wish it was a different style design rather than the typical suburban stucco thing, but what are ya gonna do? It's geared to college kids but it would have been neat to meld with the neighborhood design a little better....brick or something. whatev

----------


## BG918

> I wish it was a different style design rather than the typical suburban stucco thing, but what are ya gonna do? It's geared to college kids but it would have been neat to meld with the neighborhood design a little better....brick or something. whatev


Looks like a mix of brick and stucco similar to The Edge in OKC.  

That whole area east of Trout is ripe for redevelopment.  I could see it eventually being full of higher density apartments from Boyd to Brooks by the tracks, eventually spilling north of Boyd.  Which is perfect for having a high residential density next to eventual commuter rail.

----------


## Spartan

> I'd really like to see the east and north side of the campus get developed because at some point the train station near Main will be within walking distance of many, which will hasten the commuter rail from Norman to downtown OKC.
> 
> It would benefit the university and City greatly to have a much stronger link, and the rail line would go a long way towards that.


Rather than spending $100+ million on a streetcar, most of urban Norman could actually be well-served with just a few stops on the BNSF corridor.

I do NOT think this project is as nice as The Edge on first blush. Let's just hope that Norman doesn't reject it...

----------


## YO MUDA

> OU is currently raising money for this project.  Just like the stadium they will start once they have sufficient funds and the design is finalized.  More on the project:
> 
> _The residential college concept was created at Oxford University and Cambridge University in the United Kingdom and has proven successful at colleges and universities in the United States. OU is the first university in the state and Big 12 and one of the first public universities to adopt this model. The colleges will have their own dining rooms, study areas and intramural teams, crests and mottos. Ten faculty fellows will have offices in the colleges and seminar rooms will also be included. Parking will be located nearby.
> 
> The proposed new housing facilities will accommodate approximately 600 students in a mix of room, suite and semi-suite configurations. The facilities will including dining, faculty housing, student lounge areas and other organizational and academic amenities._


April 6 is the start date we just received at the Landscape Dept. We were told the parking lot South of Lindsey will be shut down as well as the parking lot west of Jenkins to Houston Huffman, where a 5 story parking garage will be built.

----------


## UrbanNorman

> Pete,
> 
> The City and OU/IQC are in the process of working on a "Central City Norman" vision for this area you are talking about, so I would think development would shortly follow.
> 
> It's great to see that nasty complex getting demolished!


Unfortunately, it is looking like the form based code derived from the center city vision process will end up being an overlay district, so the form based code will be optional. Very disappointing, in my eyes, as this had a lot of potential to spur the right kind of medium-density "missing middle" development that the core Norman area needs. Once an overlay is put in place, it is hard to once again gain the momentum to make it mandatory.

----------


## HangryHippo

There was a video on YouTube awhile back that offered a pretty in-depth look of the new residential college.  For some reason, I can't find it anywhere.  Does anyone else know what I'm talking about and possibly have a link to it?

----------


## Geographer

> Unfortunately, it is looking like the form based code derived from the center city vision process will end up being an overlay district, so the form based code will be optional. Very disappointing, in my eyes, as this had a lot of potential to spur the right kind of medium-density "missing middle" development that the core Norman area needs. Once an overlay is put in place, it is hard to once again gain the momentum to make it mandatory.


Ah, that's disappointing to hear.

----------


## KayneMo

> There was a video on YouTube awhile back that offered a pretty in-depth look of the new residential college.  For some reason, I can't find it anywhere.  Does anyone else know what I'm talking about and possibly have a link to it?


I think I know what video you're referring to, and I can't find it anywhere neither! It was a visualization done by KWK Architects out of St. Louis. I even checked their website and it's not on there anymore.

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## HangryHippo

> I think I know what video you're referring to, and I can't find it anywhere neither! It was a visualization done by KWK Architects out of St. Louis. I even checked their website and it's not on there anymore.


I found the link to the video where I had seen it originally but YouTube says the video does not exist.  Strange.

----------


## Pete

They closed off the parking lots south of Lindsey to start work on the residential colleges this week.

Also, on 4/17 they dedicate the renovated and expanded Hester Hall; very, very nice:

----------


## Martin

nice... when i was at ou a bit over a decade ago, hester hall really needed some love. this looks great.  -M

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## BG918

New residential colleges on Lindsey.  The new parking garage is to the south next to the Huffman Center where the aquatics center was going to go.  I've heard the new plan is to upgrade and expand the Huffman to the south and add the aquatics center there once the parking garage is finished.  It's still in the early planning stages.

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## Pete

Very nice!

Note the structched parking on the far left of the image.  I suppose that will be for this complex as well as Heddington Hall.

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## Pete

Couple more:

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## Just the facts

Personally I think OU is making a mistake by growing south instead of north and connecting to downtown Norman.  Imagine if this many students were within easy walking distance of downtown Norman.

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## HangryHippo

> Personally I think OU is making a mistake by growing south instead of north and connecting to downtown Norman.  Imagine if this many students were within easy walking distance of downtown Norman.


I agree with you on this. I'd like to see OU start buying properties north to downtown Norman just west of the tracks. Lots of opportunities for improvement in that area.

----------


## Geographer

I don't think growing south and filling in surface parking lots is a mistake at all...especially since they already own the property.  If OU were to buy properties and do this kind of project at this scale north of campus corner they would have to assemble properties and tear down homes.  Kudos to OU for filling in surface lots along Lindsey Street...

Edit: I see in the rendering that they are showing a 4-lane Lindsey street through this part of campus...  :Frown:

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## HangryHippo

> I don't think growing south and filling in surface parking lots is a mistake at all...especially since they already own the property.  If OU were to buy properties and do this kind of project at this scale north of campus corner they would have to assemble properties and tear down homes.  Kudos to OU for filling in surface lots along Lindsey Street...
> 
> Edit: I see in the rendering that they are showing a 4-lane Lindsey street through this part of campus...


Geographer, I agree that filling in the surface lots that they already own is preferable to having to assemble new properties.  I'm really just disappointed with how the south campus has turned out.  I had higher hopes for that area as they were starting with a clean slate.

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## zachj7

They better add a ton more parking...

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## shavethewhales

Here's the other big OU project that might get off the ground soon: OU's Air Force ROTC to leave historic building this summer | Oklahoman.com

When I was still a student in the OU COE last year it was widely acknowledge that the college plans to put a big new building there that among other things will have some large classrooms for freshman-level courses. The COE has talked about doing things like making it's own Calculus program, since the math department at OU isn't great and has been a problem for keeping engineering students in the program. In any case, the COE needs a LOT more space. 

Craddock Hall was supposed to be a temporary structure for the war. Felgar Hall has built so that it could be eventually doubled in size with a wing extending over Craddock's footprint. I don't think they're planning on expanding Felgar at this point... I hope they don't try to knock Felgar down to replace it with the new building either - that building is a bit outdated, but it is a very early university building and I consider it to be one of campus's treasures. It also has a lot of useful small rooms. Lots of good memories there.

----------


## Pete

Yeah, this building is right in the middle of the growing engineering area, with the new practice facility immediately east and Devon Hall to the north.

Would love to know exactly what they plan to building there.

They must have definite plans to be kicking out the ROTC.

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## Geographer

> They better add a ton more parking...


There's plenty of surface parking all over campus, especially at LNC...People just have to realize that parking is premium and might have to *gasp* actually take the short bus/walk/bike trip from the LNC parking lots to campus...

----------


## Geographer

> They closed off the parking lots south of Lindsey to start work on the residential colleges this week.
> 
> Also, on 4/17 they dedicate the renovated and expanded Hester Hall; very, very nice:


I remember a few years ago I had to visit my Economics professors in this building...it was definitely in terrible shape, so I'm glad to see it renovated!

----------


## Just the facts

> There's plenty of surface parking all over campus, especially at LNC...People just have to realize that parking is premium and might have to *gasp* actually take the short bus/walk/bike trip from the LNC parking lots to campus...


If they expanded the campus north towards downtown it would be possible to attend OU for 4 years and not even own a car, especially with commuter rail coming to Norman some day. Isolating students even more from the needs of daily life isn't the solution.

----------


## AP

I would like to point out that at OU and OSU, not only is that possible, it happens way more than you think. There are thousands of international students that live that reality already. Sure, we should make it easier for Americans I guess, but I don't know that anything will really change.

----------


## Just the facts

Kids in college today are part of the non-driving generation.  My own son is ONLY looking at colleges where he doesn't have to drive.  He simply doesn't want to spend his money on owning a car.  My youngest son has already decided he wants to go to college in Europe.

His top 4:
1) Savannah College of Art and Design - Savannah
2) Palm Beach Atlantic - West Palm Beach
3) Florida State College Jacksonville - downtown Jax
4) College of Charleston

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## ou48A

> I would like to point out that at OU and OSU, not only is that possible, it happens way more than you think. There are thousands of international students that live that reality already. Sure, we should make it easier for Americans I guess, but I don't know that anything will really change.


To your point.... private development financing will mean that its cost vs benefit will largely be the bottom line that determines what is done. But OU can help facilitate the new density by locating more new housing and major destination stops near the heart of it's campus. But building on already developed land raises the bar for private financing, particularly when there are so many small lots to be acquired. 

Limited private land near OU will eventually limit OU’s growth... so better access to OU’s main campus will be needed and it is on the distant horizon with several improved streets and commuter rail.

Many of the downtown Norman buildings  are coming to the end of their useful life’s and will need to be replaced in the next 30 to 50 years….It can cost millions to bring these near dilapidated buildings up to city / state and national codes. It will be smarter to spend these millions close to where the actual  location of a strong  majority people are.

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## ou48A

I believe all the new OU tornado shelters are completed….? 
The one I saw had a very, very high profile! 
Without a doubt it would not be my first choice for shelter in an EF-5…. But it’s better than an apartment?

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## hfry

> If they expanded the campus north towards downtown it would be possible to attend OU for 4 years and not even own a car, especially with commuter rail coming to Norman some day. Isolating students even more from the needs of daily life isn't the solution.


While I agree it doesn't happen nearly enough and by enough people I know plenty that make it work. Norman's bus system is pretty great and free to student and there is no where in Norman where it really can't get you. Commuter rail will be huge because it will help tie campus to the east which I think is a direction that is often forgotten. With the duck pond and all the housing that is going on, building on some of the surface lots and maybe moving the track facility to over by the golf course could really help make everything complete IMO. And while I understand your point on connecting campus to downtown norman I think it is over rated what can actually be done there at the present time. I don't know many student who go downtown other than bars/ entertainment or tattoos. What I do think would be awesome would be building around campus corner and really bring more housing north of campus compared to the south. I'd love to see four dorms like those above be built to the north, possibly over by sarkeys.

----------


## hfry

> If they expanded the campus north towards downtown it would be possible to attend OU for 4 years and not even own a car, especially with commuter rail coming to Norman some day. Isolating students even more from the needs of daily life isn't the solution.


While I agree it doesn't happen nearly enough and by enough people I know plenty that make it work. Norman's bus system is pretty great and free to student and there is no where in Norman where it really can't get you. Commuter rail will be huge because it will help tie campus to the east which I think is a direction that is often forgotten. With the duck pond and all the housing that is going on, building on some of the surface lots and maybe moving the track facility to over by the golf course could really help make everything complete IMO. And while I understand your point on connecting campus to downtown norman I think it is over rated what can actually be done there at the present time. I don't know many student who go downtown other than bars/ entertainment or tattoos. What I do think would be awesome would be building around campus corner and really bring more housing north of campus compared to the south. I'd love to see four dorms like those above be built to the north, possibly over by sarkeys. 

edit. I did forget to add that with a commuter train I see a downtown location but also a OU campus location which would mean things to the east. There is plenty of room to build a big station and if fact, CART(clevland area rapid transit) just moved their main OU station over just north of the track facilities for what I think they plan on being a intermural hub with the railroad since it is so close.

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## HangryHippo

> While I agree it doesn't happen nearly enough and by enough people I know plenty that make it work. Norman's bus system is pretty great and free to student and there is no where in Norman where it really can't get you. Commuter rail will be huge because it will help tie campus to the east which I think is a direction that is often forgotten. With the duck pond and all the housing that is going on, building on some of the surface lots and maybe moving the track facility to over by the golf course could really help make everything complete IMO. And while I understand your point on connecting campus to downtown norman I think it is over rated what can actually be done there at the present time. I don't know many student who go downtown other than bars/ entertainment or tattoos. What I do think would be awesome would be building around campus corner and really bring more housing north of campus compared to the south. I'd love to see four dorms like those above be built to the north, possibly over by sarkeys.


Your post reminded me, but I really wish OU would move the track facility to the south, closer to the other sports' facilities.  Also, I hate that the Everett Indoor Training Facility is located where it is.  It's such an ugly vantage point coming into campus from the east.  And without those two facilities in their current locations, OU could really do something great spreading toward the tracks and duck pond area.

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## hfry

I agree ^^^ althought with Everett I don't see football every allowing it to be moved because of how close they want it for their practices. Yet, by moving track and such I think you just build around it with more of these residential colleges  and hopefully more class buildings and just add it to the environment instead of it sticking out like a sore thumb.

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## HangryHippo

> I agree ^^^ althought with Everett I don't see football every allowing it to be moved because of how close they want it for their practices. Yet, by moving track and such I think you just build around it with more of these residential colleges  and hopefully more class buildings and just add it to the environment instead of it sticking out like a sore thumb.


Yeah, it's a pipe dream of epic proportions as far as Everett ever being moved.  Football would never allow it.  But some colleges in that setting would have been awesome; I would have loved living in a residence there.

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## BG918

> Your post reminded me, but I really wish OU would move the track facility to the south, closer to the other sports' facilities.  Also, I hate that the Everett Indoor Training Facility is located where it is.  It's such an ugly vantage point coming into campus from the east.  And without those two facilities in their current locations, OU could really do something great spreading toward the tracks and duck pond area.


I've always said the perfect place for a new basketball arena is the Duck Pond lot/track.  Move the track to the Intramural fields near Huntington Hall.  Continue to expand the engineering/technology quad south on Jenkins toward Brooks with more dense housing east of Trout.  This is where there is already a large new apartment development going in to replace Bishops Landing.  A future OU commuter rail stop could be right there at Brooks.

----------


## YO MUDA

> I believe all the new OU tornado shelters are completed.? 
> The one I saw had a very, very high profile! 
> Without a doubt it would not be my first choice for shelter in an EF-5. But its better than an apartment?


Nope, not finished yet. The trucks hauling the bricks showed up today, and the interior is far from finished.

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## ou48A

> Nope, not finished yet. The trucks hauling the bricks showed up today, and the interior is far from finished.


I was told by an OU employee a few days ago that they were “tornado safe” …. is that wrong? Thanks.
I have wondered why they didn’t mound up dirt on the sides…. It would make it stronger in a tornado?

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## Robert_M

Here is the information on the plans about the wind ratings.  As shown it is rated up to 250 mph winds which is above the EF-5 starting point. Rated that high they probably wanted to make it look nice and fit in with the area.

Shelter.jpg

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## YO MUDA

> Here is the information on the plans about the wind ratings.  As shown it is rated up to 250 mph winds which is above the EF-5 starting point. Rated that high they probably wanted to make it look nice and fit in with the area.
> 
> Shelter.jpg


I work at Kraplee  Apt, and believe me its not ready.

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## Pete

I was in Norman on Saturday and walked most the campus.

Hester Hall looks amazing.  And as has become the tradition, the backside of the building is equally nice, with an outdoor patio, teak furniture and a fountain.

In fact, everywhere you turn on that campus these days there are gardens, benches, patios, umbrellas, teak outdoor furniture, public art and fountains.  It's amazing the amount of improvement and attention to detail that has happened in the Boren era. 

Also, the new Scholars Walk is a huge upgrade to not only the street that was there previously, but the bike lanes and sidewalks also mean no cars at all on the South Oval and it's a million times better.

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## BG918

> Also, the new Scholars Walk is a huge upgrade to not only the street that was there previously, but the bike lanes and sidewalks also mean no cars at all on the South Oval and it's a million times better.


At one time they were going to add a cycle track/bike lane along Brooks Mall from Elm to Jenkins, and a similar lane along the west side of the South Oval to connect the dorms with a track that runs around the library to the North Oval.  Hopefully that's still the plan as there needs to be more separation between pedestrians and bikes on campus sidewalks where they currently mix.  

Rendering from before they did the bus roundabout**:

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## HangryHippo

I don't know doable it would be, but I'd like to see buses drop off on the periphery of campus as opposed to stopping in the cul de sac they installed.

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## FighttheGoodFight

> I don't know doable it would be, but I'd like to see buses drop off on the periphery of campus as opposed to stopping in the cul de sac they installed.


Only the lloyd noble shuttles and apartment shuttles go to that drop off now. I assume they did this to encourage more people to ride the lloyd noble shuttle as they keep taking about parking.

Though 20 minutes to get from lloyd noble to main campus just seems WAY too long.

My faculty/staff parking pass is going up to 300 next year. I have been thinking about the shuttle more and more

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## hfry

I ride the bus from Lloyd noble daily and at most it takes 10 mins. Depends on traffic at the stop signs and the lights but late at night when it is quick its about a 5 min ride.

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## HangryHippo

> Only the lloyd noble shuttles and apartment shuttles go to that drop off now. I assume they did this to encourage more people to ride the lloyd noble shuttle as they keep taking about parking.
> 
> Though 20 minutes to get from lloyd noble to main campus just seems WAY too long.
> 
> My faculty/staff parking pass is going up to 300 next year. I have been thinking about the shuttle more and more


Those are the buses I'd like to see moved elsewhere.  Even just dropping students off by the Honors College and then circling back to the LNC would be preferable IMO.

$300 for a staff permit?  Wow, that's incredible.

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## traxx

> Hopefully that's still the plan as there needs to be more separation between pedestrians and bikes on campus sidewalks where they currently mix.


This was an issue even back when I went to school there. I had a buddy almost get run over by a cyclist once. He was on his way to class and the cyclist coming up behind him said, "On your left." So my buddy moved to his right. Turned out the cyclist didn't know his left from his right as he started yelling, "No, I mean right. ON YOUR RIGHT." My friend barely got moved in time.

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## RedSoxFan

In 2009-10, it was $600/yr to park at Georgia Tech (specific to one lot). How about $100 a _month_? That is how much I paid at Boston University this past year for a faculty/staff commuter pass.

$300/yr for parking is pretty reasonable for a university IMO. Just my opinion.

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## dankrutka

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not too hard to find parking within 3 to 4 blocks of the university for free if you know where to look, right? I know that can be inconvenient if you're hauling stuff in, but you could always run stuff into a building and then park. When I was finishing my doctorate and teaching classes at OU (finished in 2012) I never had a parking pass and parked on Parsons west of the College of Education. Some days I'd get right across the street and other days I'd have to go 4 or so blocks to where Parsons dead ended. At the longest it was a 6-8 minute walk. I always found a spot.

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## SOONER8693

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not too hard to find parking within 3 to 4 blocks of the university for free if you know where to look, right? I know that can be inconvenient if you're hauling stuff in, but you could always run stuff into a building and then park. When I was finishing my doctorate and teaching classes at OU (finished in 2012) I never had a parking pass and parked on Parsons west of the College of Education. Some days I'd get right across the street and other days I'd have to go 4 or so blocks to where Parsons dead ended. At the longest it was a 6-8 minute walk. I always found a spot.


I did the same thing while working on my masters in admin/curriculum supervision. Most classes were in the CofE. And you are right, it is hit and miss. Some days I walked a block of less. Some days, all the way to the end of that street.

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## FighttheGoodFight

> In 2009-10, it was $600/yr to park at Georgia Tech (specific to one lot). How about $100 a _month_? That is how much I paid at Boston University this past year for a faculty/staff commuter pass.
> 
> $300/yr for parking is pretty reasonable for a university IMO. Just my opinion.


Was your spot guaranteed? For instance today at lunch I drove around to three lots before I found a spot. And these lots are just for faculty and staff.

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## RedSoxFan

> Was your spot guaranteed? For instance today at lunch I drove around to three lots before I found a spot. And these lots are just for faculty and staff.


 For Boston University - no. The parking situation there sounds like what you have at OU - i.e., I can park in any "Green Permit" lot. Luckily, there are two lots near the building I teach in, so 95% of the time I can get into one of them. But, BU is stretched all along Commonwealth Ave., so a 15-20+ minute walk during very crowded occasions (e.g., Snowmaggedon 2015) did occur.

At Georgia Tech, the permit was valid only for one specific lot on campus (after-hours and weekends you could park anywhere). About a 10 minute walk from the building to the parking lot - not terrible. I believe there was an overflow lot if the garage did become full (located a good distance away), but that never happened to me. By the way, the parking permit now is $776/yr for Georgia Tech.

Don't mean to go too far off-topic with this - I am considering a position at OU and will be working in the NWC. It looks like the "free" lot (LNC) is not too far from the building. Is it still advisable to get a faculty parking permit? Just curious for those who would know.

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## Tritone

Apples and oranges I know but many, many years ago my staff permit at SWOSU was free.

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## FighttheGoodFight

> For Boston University - no. The parking situation there sounds like what you have at OU - i.e., I can park in any "Green Permit" lot. Luckily, there are two lots near the building I teach in, so 95% of the time I can get into one of them. But, BU is stretched all along Commonwealth Ave., so a 15-20+ minute walk during very crowded occasions (e.g., Snowmaggedon 2015) did occur.
> 
> At Georgia Tech, the permit was valid only for one specific lot on campus (after-hours and weekends you could park anywhere). About a 10 minute walk from the building to the parking lot - not terrible. I believe there was an overflow lot if the garage did become full (located a good distance away), but that never happened to me. By the way, the parking permit now is $776/yr for Georgia Tech.
> 
> Don't mean to go too far off-topic with this - I am considering a position at OU and will be working in the NWC. It looks like the "free" lot (LNC) is not too far from the building. Is it still advisable to get a faculty parking permit? Just curious for those who would know.


If you want to park in LNC and walk it would only be about a 10 minute walk. The only hard part is crossing the main road. It can be quite busy. There is a ton of faculty/staff parking down on the research campus. You could always try LNC for a while then buy the pass later. No garages on south campus though.

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## Pete

Forget any ideas about them relocating the basketball venue...  They just announced a big addition to the LNC complex:





OU Regents Approve LNC Performance Center
May 07, 2015
NORMAN — The University of Oklahoma Board of Regents approved the design development phase plans for a Strength Training and Performance Center Addition project at the Lloyd Noble Center on Thursday.

An approximately 18,400-gross-square-foot addition at Lloyd Noble Center will be constructed south of the existing two practice court gymnasiums used by the men's and women's basketball programs. The addition will provide significantly improved strength training facilities for both basketball programs as well as for student-athletes competing in other OU athletics programs. As a part of the project, space for a performance center also will be constructed to accommodate equipment that will assist in performance testing and assessment.

OU Regents Approve LNC Performance Center - Oklahoma Sooners

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## dankrutka

Boo! I'd love for the basketball arena to be back on campus.  :Frown:

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## Pete

I gave up that hope when they did the big practice facility project about 10 years ago.

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## BG918

I still think they relocate it but do it around 2035.   :Smile:

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## Rover

> Boo! I'd love for the basketball arena to be back on campus.


I would much rather have a walkable/bike able compact campus for everyday use for the students than to plop a huge occasionally used facility with huge parking demands in the middle of the learning/living area.

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## dankrutka

> I would much rather have a walkable/bike able compact campus for everyday use for the students than to plop a huge occasionally used facility with huge parking demands in the middle of the learning/living area.


I actually think both things can be done. And, if it was closer to campus it would be used far more. Either way, it doesn't look like it's going anywhere.

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## BG918

While I'd love to see a new basketball/multipurpose arena back on campus (and think it will indeed happen someday) I can think of lots of other things that need to be built or rebuilt first.  The trend of building new dorms along Lindsey is great, and will change the look and feel of the south campus.  Next up would be doing the same and replacing Cate Center with new dorms and eventually having enough beds where at least all freshman and sophomores live in either campus housing or Greek houses.  A major remodel and expansion of the Huffman Center adding the aquatics facility to the south end is also part of the enhancement of this area for students.

On campus the biggest need left is a better facility for science, and additional buildings for the growing engineering and computer/technology programs.  And better connectivity on campus with dedicated bike lanes across campus and connections to bike lanes on adjacent streets especially between south campus along Lindsey to Campus Corner and downtown.

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## Rover

> I actually think both things can be done. And, if it was closer to campus it would be used far more. Either way, it doesn't look like it's going anywhere.


How would the arena be used more?  The arena smack dab on campus is big enough and used for smaller events.  The LNC is used for LARGE events that draw more non-students than students.  And it isn't even that far.  That would hardly be a long walk in New York City.  It sure isn't too far for on campus students.

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## dankrutka

> How would the arena be used more?  The arena smack dab on campus is big enough and used for smaller events.  The LNC is used for LARGE events that draw more non-students than students.  And it isn't even that far.  That would hardly be a long walk in New York City.  It sure isn't too far for on campus students.


First, pretty much everything we know about walkability indicates that people will never regularly make the bland walk between campus and the LNC. You know that.

If OU rebuilt its basketball arena I would advocate it being a smaller, more intimate setting seating between 6,000-9,000. I'd recommend designing it so half the arena could be pardoned off for events like graduation, concerts, speakers, etc.. Yes, you are correct that the Field House could be used, but the raised stands aren't particularly welcoming. I think a new, smaller basketball arena could be used for more events, would draw more students and university community, and could easily be located in an area (probably by the Duck Pond) that's not really being walked anyway (see OU football practice facility for a far more egregious structure on this front). I do think an on-campus arena would draw far more people got games and events. Anyway, I don't at all think it should be a top priority, but that would be my preference over maintaining the LNC, which is an incredibly ugly arena.

----------


## Rover

There is no reason for students to regularly walk to the arena.  There aren't that many dates of use and people don't just walk to it to see it.  

Secondly, it isn't ugly...either inside or out.  It is a very good arena to view an event as it has good site lines and no seat is too far from the action.  Lighting is good.  Scoreboard is good. Seats are comfortable.  It has been regularly maintained and in good shape.  It is mid sized for a major school, so they won't downsize it.  There is no reason to spend $150-200 million to move it a couple of blocks closer to the students who fail to support the team anyway (see declining student participation in the football stadium across the street for evidence).

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## dankrutka

First, I would guess LNC is in use for around 50-60 events a year with almost all of those during the school year. Men's basketball and OU women's basketball each have about 20 games each. Both gymnastics teams use it at least some. There are concerts. I'm sure there's more that I don't know about. Seems like a decent amount of dates. And I think it would be of benefit if it was in walking distance. 

Second, I was talking about the outside of the arena. It's one of the ugliest structures I've ever seen. 

Again, I don't think it's a top priority and it clearly won't happen.

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## BG918

It's been said before but an on-campus arena could offer much more than what the LNC does now such as additional conference/meeting room space for events, an alumni center, an OU Hall of Fame, even classroom/academic space.  The biggest advantage would be proximity to Campus Corner where you could actually walk to a bar/restaurant before or after a game which you can't really do now. There is a reason nearly every new arena and stadium gets built in a downtown urban area because of this.  

It also helps to disperse parking over several lots and garages which you would get on campus as opposed to having everyone park in one lot and then try to leave at the same time.  You also have the distinct possibility that a commuter rail station will eventually be located a couple blocks from the arena (assuming it's at Brooks & Jenkins) allowing those living in Moore, OKC and Edmond easy direct access via the train which isn't possible by LNC.

Additionally being close to students would likely improve attendance especially with the new dorm projects on Lindsey and the redevelopment of Bishops Landing.

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## ou48A

Any new arena  located near Brooks & Jenkins would likely come with new parking garages that could be utilized for the many events not held at the arena and by students facility, and staff virtually all year long….  BG918 listed very good reason why an arena located near Brooks & Jenkins is the smartest choice for a location….. 
....But what should be of far greater concern to us all is…. where do you find the money for this project?

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## jccouger

> First, pretty much everything we know about walkability indicates that people will never regularly make the bland walk between campus and the LNC. You know that.
> 
> If OU rebuilt its basketball arena I would advocate it being a smaller, more intimate setting seating between 6,000-9,000. I'd recommend designing it so half the arena could be pardoned off for events like graduation, concerts, speakers, etc.. Yes, you are correct that the Field House could be used, but the raised stands aren't particularly welcoming. I think a new, smaller basketball arena could be used for more events, would draw more students and university community, and could easily be located in an area (probably by the Duck Pond) that's not really being walked anyway (see OU football practice facility for a far more egregious structure on this front). I do think an on-campus arena would draw far more people got games and events. Anyway, I don't at all think it should be a top priority, but that would be my preference over maintaining the LNC, which is an incredibly ugly arena.


I walked from Price to LNC almost everyday for over a year. It's not a long walk & I actually looked forward to it. There should be better sidewalks in some areas though. The dorms/living areas are about 1/2 of this distance. 

If the basketball arena was built at the track across from the football stadium then the distance from the dorms to there vs the dorms to LNC would be roughly the same. You guys are WAY overestimating any kind of walkability principal here. The LNC will also have far greater car capacity than any area on campus. I think the basketball arena is in the perfect spot.

----------


## ou48A

> I walked from Price to LNC almost everyday for over a year. It's not a long walk & I actually looked forward to it. There should be better sidewalks in some areas though. The dorms/living areas are about 1/2 of this distance. 
> 
> If the basketball arena was built at the track across from the football stadium then the distance from the dorms to there vs the dorms to LNC would be roughly the same. You guys are WAY overestimating any kind of walkability principal here. The LNC will also have far greater car capacity than any area on campus. I think the basketball arena is in the perfect spot.


The average dorm and Greek House is closer to the Brooks & Jenkins area but besides that most people are far more willing to walk in areas they are familiar with, particularly at night, than in the areas where they are not making frequent walks. Most students and people do not ever walk to the LNC and many students won’t drive to the LNC because they risk giving up a parking spot if they do.
It’s a proven fact that familiarity breeds comfort. Many more newer people are more familiar with Brooks & Jenkins area.

----------


## BoulderSooner

LNC is ON campus

----------


## jccouger

> LNC is ON campus


Well, of course. Any OU building is "on campus". You know what everybody means when they say that though, you are just being technical.

----------


## dankrutka

> I walked from Price to LNC almost everyday for over a year. It's not a long walk & I actually looked forward to it. There should be better sidewalks in some areas though. The dorms/living areas are about 1/2 of this distance. 
> 
> If the basketball arena was built at the track across from the football stadium then the distance from the dorms to there vs the dorms to LNC would be roughly the same. You guys are WAY overestimating any kind of walkability principal here. The LNC will also have far greater car capacity than any area on campus. I think the basketball arena is in the perfect spot.


I know that it is a walkable distance, but it is not walkable in the more specific use of the term. People will never walk to the LNC from the main campus area. I'm glad a few of you have done it, but we already have solid evidence on this. People have been overwhelmingly driving to the LNC for a long time. If you think people will start walking to the LNC all of a sudden then you're just being stubborn or willfully ignorant.

----------


## jccouger

> I know that it is a walkable distance, but it is not walkable in the more specific use of the term. People will never walk to the LNC from the main campus area. I'm glad a few of you have done it, but we already have solid evidence on this. People have been overwhelmingly driving to the LNC for a long time. If you think people will start walking to the LNC all of a sudden then you're just being stubborn or willfully ignorant.


Yeah, I shouldn't have made myself an example. I never had anybody join me on that walk, or noticed anybody ever walking that far haha

----------


## gman11695

I took this a few days ago, but wanted to update a thread with all the construction going on at OU and all the cranes they have up, along with two tower cranes where they are building the residential colleges. The view is from a top the stadium parking garage.

----------


## HangryHippo

gman, can't see your picture.  Can you try reposting?

----------


## ou48A

Construction cameras for OUs stadium and new residential college dorms can be found on this link
 They are usually updated every 20 minutes. Click on the picture to enlarge and zoom in.
I always find this type of work interesting.

University of Oklahoma - Construction Sooner Cams by Digi Surveillance Systems

----------


## gman11695

Yes I was going to mention those. A lot of construction happening at OU. Walking around campus, all the construction noise makes it sound like a large city!

Also, I cannot upload the picture for some reason. Any suggestions?

----------


## Grandmonsta

Have you guys seen the libraries next renovation project? Home - OU Libraries Renovation - LibGuides at The University of Oklahoma Libraries

----------


## mugofbeer

All that change since i was there 30 years ago but I ate at the Greek House a couple of weeks ago and, except for being a bit more expensive,  it's hardly changed a bit.  Still wonderful.

----------


## ou48A

What ‘s this about	?

https://twitter.com/AnnaMay136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Anna Mayer ‏@AnnaMay136  1h1 hour ago
OU will be purchasing more land to be used for university expansion.

----------


## ou48A

This is significant and a true indication of the ongoing broad base of support OU has that will last for decades.
https://twitter.com/AnnaMay136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Anna Mayer ‏@AnnaMay136  2h2 hours ago
Boren: OU received 6 more donors to the Seed Sower Society. Members have donated a million or more dollars. There are now 206 members.

----------


## HangryHippo

> What ‘s this about	?
> 
> https://twitter.com/AnnaMay136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
> 
> Anna Mayer ‏@AnnaMay136  1h1 hour ago
> OU will be purchasing more land to be used for university expansion.


I think they're buying up more land to the east between Sarkeys and the railroad tracks for future expansion.

----------


## Pete

^

Yes, I think that's correct.

----------


## dankrutka

> I think they're buying up more land to the east between Sarkeys and the railroad tracks for future expansion.


I lived right there for 5 years and there's nothing there that would be any kind of loss. I wonder if the Sarkey's lot might become a garage then...

----------


## ou48A

> I think they're buying up more land to the east between Sarkeys and the railroad tracks for future expansion.


I found out that it’s actually a group of houses on Page Circle…. They are just north of the apartments that are being torn down…. the apartments are located just north of the duck pond.

OU already owns many of these old houses…. Over the past 15 years OU has been removing many older homes near this part of campus.

But I have only heard rumors about what OU will do with the land?  A new on main campus sport arena seems to be the most likely possibility?

----------


## ou48A

OU will also be constructing 2 more new above-ground storm shelters near Couch and Walker Centers.

----------


## okatty

Pretty cool video of the scoreboard coming DOWN

VIDEO: Say goodbye to the old OU football scoreboard | News OK

----------


## gman11695

Third tower crane for the new parking garage started going up today

----------


## gman11695

Craddock Hall was torn down a few weeks ago and now sits an empty plot of grass. Craddock Hall used to sit on Felgar Street between Jenkins and Asp. I believe, correct me if I am wrong, this is where OU will build the new Biomedical Sciences research building.

----------


## catcherinthewry

^ That is correct.

----------


## Pete

I was in Norman last weekend and the stadium improvements and residential colleges are really impressive in person.  Will completely transform that area of campus.

Also, it's great to see Campus Corner thriving.  Tons of restaurants, the CVS (which has to be incredibly handy) and very little vacancy from what I could see.

I stopped in Fuzzy's at 11AM on a Sunday and they became busy fast.  That operation is just a money-making machine.  They also have a cool outdoor patio in the back that is 21 and over and has a dedicated bar.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^^^^
Like I've mentioned before, after observing places in Bricktown close-up for many years, I figure Fuzzy's to be the highest-grossing restaurant operation in the district. Certainly not from the standpoint of per-cover or per-ticket, but they see more people through the door by far, and are open many more hours per week than the places that beat them in those other categories.

The place is almost never not packed, and usually has a line out the door and every seat inside taken. I expect that the Norman location sees some the same type of business.

----------


## Pete

^

The Fuzzy's in Edmond does great business as well.

And I'm sure the new one in Chisholm Creek will kill it as well.

----------


## BG918

> Craddock Hall was torn down a few weeks ago and now sits an empty plot of grass. Craddock Hall used to sit on Felgar Street between Jenkins and Asp. I believe, correct me if I am wrong, this is where OU will build the new Biomedical Sciences research building.


Any info/renderings for the new Biomedical Sciences building?  I didn't realize it was going to be where Craddock Hall used to be.

----------


## dankrutka

Gittinger Hall (English) coming down for a new physics building: OU President David Boren announces lead gifts to construct new physics building - News - Mobile

The South Oval make-over continues.

----------


## Pete



----------


## shavethewhales

Looks good, but I'm a little surprised they are taking out Gittinger. Last I was around there everyone was squashed into those offices like sardines. There's still not enough room on campus to accommodate all the freshmen English teachers that are necessary due to the smaller class size mandate, unless that has changed recently. They are pretty much just shoe-horned into scattered spaces across campus. 

I really like the details in the upper corners that carry over from Nielson. OU has been doing a good job of blending classic architecture and modernism lately.

----------


## HangryHippo

Gittinger was starting to really show her age so I think this is a good move.  And I think they've been moving a lot of the English teachers into the renovated Cross Center dorms in preparation for this.

Money is so tight, but I'd really like to see OU tear down Dale Hall and George Lynn Cross Hall on the South Oval and the student health center and rebuild new facilities.  They really detract from the campus aesthetic.  But that's probably a long, long, long way out, if it ever were to happen.

----------


## HangryHippo

> Any info/renderings for the new Biomedical Sciences building?  I didn't realize it was going to be where Craddock Hall used to be.


An article in today's OU Daily quoted OU's press secretary as saying this was approved at yesterday's regents meeting.  However, I didn't see any agenda items for it or any renderings.  Has anyone seen any renderings?

OU Press Secretary Corbin Wallace - "A new building for the School of Biomedical Engineering will be funded almost completely by private gifts from the Charles Stephenson and Jim Gallogly families, Wallace said. This addition was another item that was considered and approved by the regents on during their March 9 meeting."

----------


## Pete

They have done such a fantastic job with all the new construction and renovations.

Almost all the buildings now have great interiors with patios, outdoor seating, etc.

Virtually everything has been greatly improved in just the last couple of decades.

----------


## Geographer

I had English in Gittinger Hall.  I can't say that I'll miss the building itself and am glad to see they are replacing it with another world-class building in the same architectural style as the rest of the new buildings on campus.

If I were to rank priority of building replacement, the Physical Sciences Center (the blender) would be number one of my list ahead of Dale Hall and Cross Hall.  I still have nightmares about Chemistry and Calculus in that brutalist building!

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

The problem with redoing Dale and PSC are that they will cost an large amount of money. Also with new ADA codes they will lose a large amount of seating in classrooms. 

Someone is going to have to donate quite a bit to get these buildings upgraded.

----------


## Pete

They have so much invested in the blender and Dale Hall they will never come down.

I have a little more hope for Cross Hall, but not much.  Just too big and too many people and classes would have to be displaced.

----------


## HangryHippo

I think GLC would be done first because it's just awful inside and has some serious electrical issues.  But it's going to take some serious donations and time.  Dale Hall is probably the least likely to happen as it has so many large classrooms and the displacements would be nightmarish, but it's a damn ugly gateway to campus on Lindsey St.

----------


## dankrutka

If they wanted to replace Dale I would think a new building with large classrooms could be built elsewhere first... Maybe even the Dale parking lot. Then once a replacement is opened the Dale space could be built into something new, no?

----------


## gman11695

Meant to post this earlier, but is taken from May 5 and shows the progress on the residential colleges. Even now, the steel frames are up for the roof of them. 
IMG_0174 (2).jpg

As for the stadium, they have almost the whole east side along Jenkins bricked up now! Looks sharp!

----------


## PhiAlpha

> They have so much invested in the blender and Dale Hall they will never come down.
> 
> I have a little more hope for Cross Hall, but not much.  Just too big and too many people and classes would have to be displaced.


I think you could improve the look of the blender quite a bit by staining the concrete corners and concrete on the top above the wndows some kind of red brick color, leaving the window dividing pieces white, and replacing the black tinted glass with the more modern blue tinted glass. They could even do something red with the pattern on the lower part of the building. It would definitely "blend" into campus better.

----------


## HangryHippo

I heard a rumor recently that OU is starting to look at replacing GLC on the South Oval. That would be great as that building is falling apart and is quite ugly.

----------


## dankrutka

The stadium addition, residential colleges, parking garage are going up so quick. The size of each developing is really impressive and gives the area totally different feel. 

Residential colleges
image.jpeg

image.jpeg

Stadium
image.jpeg

image.jpeg

Old meets new...
image.jpeg

----------


## Pete

Video panels going up on the scoreboard.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

Stadium looks great. Love driving by everyday

----------


## dankrutka

I was there last week and I can't imagine how they're going to be done by the first home game, particularly the exterior portion to the south... But, I'm sure they know what they're doing.

----------


## Pete

I'm sure the plan is just to get things finished enough so people can occupy the suites and bleachers and then have the board somewhat operational.

I'm sure a lot of the finish work, locker rooms and workout facility will not be complete for some time.

----------


## dankrutka

Yeah, I knew that everything wouldn't be completed for the opener, but I guess I imagined that north lawn open and exterior brick work would be done. That makes sense though. The interior of the stadium will be ready, but not the rest of it...

----------


## Pete

I'm sure seating, restrooms and at least minimal concessions are the priority.

There is a ton of finish work to be done on the athlete sections:  locker rooms, lounges, workout space.  But obviously, they have temporary arrangements to get them through this season.

However, I bet they are in a big rush on those too because they are instrumental in recruiting.

----------


## biken

Cross Center Complex Demolition and Site Clearance is going to happen very  soon 
so if you want to see the Cross Center Complex do it now, trees are being cut down  parking lots are being closed 
the buildings are all empty kind of a empty and abandoned feel the place 
http://www.ou.edu/purchasing/solicit...ter%20Co~1.pdf

----------


## dankrutka

What's going in its place?

----------


## kevinpate

I wasn't aware Cross Center was no longer in use.  Spent many years in D and B (87-03) and way more than a few lunches at O'Connell's when the former agency employer leased space from the university before moving out to space in the Griffin complex.  

Some really good memories from those years.  Makes me sad to think of the area being leveled.

----------


## Pete

I don't think it had been used at housing for a long time; more recently some offices and odd uses.

Like Dan, curious about the plans for this property.

----------


## HangryHippo

> I don't think it had been used at housing for a long time; more recently some offices and odd uses.
> 
> Like Dan, curious about the plans for this property.


I had heard it was going to be additional student housing at one time. Have NO clue if that's still the case.

----------


## kevinpate

For many years in the 90's, Cross C was the housing the high schoolers at OSSM. When the high schoolers got their own campus in OKC off Lincoln, then that building was used as a dorm again for a time.

Cross D from late 80's to 03 was architecture and a state agency, and part was a center for english as a second language center.  Not sure what moved into the agency's space in 03.

Cross B was, if memory serves, unused when the agency expanded into it in 93 through 03.
The eastern most house may have been used by the university.

Cross A was used by social work and childhood development for a number of years.

Cross Main was the campus TV program studios and some other campus related offices back in the day, and has some training space as well.

Spent many a July 4th sitting on the soccer field behind Cross D watching the fireworks over at Reeves.  I often worked the holiday and the fam would come down in the eve, bring dinner and we'd enjoy the show together.

Worked with some really great folks during some great moments and some very heart wrenching ones as well on that part of campus.

----------


## shavethewhales

I'd wager a bet they are planning more student apartment/dorms there. Maybe partly for international students? At one point I'm pretty sure it was an international student dorm, and I think it housed some programs for them fairly recently. 

That whole corner of campus was just a bunch of parking lots and old buildings when I started there in 2009. Crazy how much has been done there. 

Did the expansion of the Huff ever get revisited? Is it completely off at this point? It's already behind the times as a facility. I'm guessing by the time they got around to adding on to it, it would be easier to rebuild it entirely.

----------


## biken

http://www.ou.edu/regents/official_a...inalAgenda.pdf
see page 21 end of page 
"By this item University Administration requests authorization to enter into a ground lease with Provident Resources Group Inc. of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, approximately 20 acres of University land for the purposes of owning, developing, and operating certain assets for the benefit of students, faculty, and staff. "
I think that http://provident.org/ is building a "state-of-the-art residential complex " on a 30 year ground lease 
perhaps something like 
http://provident.org/project.asp?p=106 
Provident Resources Group gets all the rent for 30 years and then ou gets clear and fee title to the Apartment building

----------


## Pete

They've started on the new physics building on the south oval:

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

My first college class ever was in Gittenger. Excited to see the new laboratory going up. Went to the union today. Sewage was backed up. Not too pleasant.

----------


## bige4ou

Does anybody know what's going on with OU west of Jenkins and east of the freshman dorms? (OU Institute of Child Development & freshman dorm parking lot) There is a wood fence all around that entire area and they are demolishing all the buildings. Are they planning on building something else?

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> Does anybody know what's going on with OU west of Jenkins and east of the freshman dorms? (OU Institute of Child Development & freshman dorm parking lot) There is a wood fence all around that entire area and they are demolishing all the buildings. Are they planning on building something else?


They are taking out all the Cross Center buildings. Future home of more upperclassmen living I believe. Should be done by March.

----------


## Pete

> They are taking out all the Cross Center buildings. Future home of more upperclassmen living I believe. Should be done by March.


You mean expanding the residential colleges?

I know that was a big priority for Boren.  Love the way the two new res colleges are coming together directly south of the stadium.

----------


## HangryHippo

> You mean expanding the residential colleges?
> 
> I know that was a big priority for Boren.  Love the way the two new res colleges are coming together directly south of the stadium.


No.  They're demolishing the old Cross Center for new upper class apartments with a company out of Baton Rouge (I think).

----------


## Pete

Ah, I see.

Probably similar to what went up near the law center.

----------


## HangryHippo

> Ah, I see.
> 
> Probably similar to what went up near the law center.


Yep, that's what I'm expecting.

----------


## gman11695

Tower crane is up for the new physics and astronomy building.
IMG_1992.JPG

----------


## riflesforwatie

Yeah, Baton Rogue. 1200 bed complex for upperclassmen. I guess Traditions East and West are staying full, or maybe lots of freshmen live in those?

I was just thinking last week when I saw parts of Cross coming down how rough it had become in the last couple years. Last time I went in there (maybe 2015) it was almost scary. Can't wait to see the new complex take shape, though I'm sad they fenced in the soccer practice field at the corner of Timberdell and Jenkins.

----------


## Pete

I bet they end up replacing the Cate Center complex along Lindsay with more residential colleges, as Boren is a big believer in that type of facility.

----------


## riflesforwatie

Also, the Jenkins Ave Parking Facility (just south of residential colleges and east of the Huff) is now open.

----------


## gman11695

> Also, the Jenkins Ave Parking Facility (just south of residential colleges and east of the Huff) is now open.


Yes that opened at the beginning of this semester back in January.

----------


## gman11695

> I bet they end up replacing the Cate Center complex along Lindsay with more residential colleges, as Boren is a big believer in that type of facility.


They've been doing a lot of renovations to those though; replacing windows and updating the interiors lately.

----------


## Pete

> They've been doing a lot of renovations to those though; replacing windows and updating the interiors lately.


Right and have made more improvements relatively recently.

Would have to be a longer term plan.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> They've been doing a lot of renovations to those though; replacing windows and updating the interiors lately.


They currently house quite a bit of classes and offices. Since the Gittinger tear down english department has been using it.

----------


## gman11695

> They current house quite a bit of classes and offices. Since Gittinger tear down english department has been using it.


Right, even Air Force ROTC has moved in there since tearing down their old building.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

http://m.newsok.com/article/5539642

----------


## Pete

"OU is committed to building living-learning communities to provide needed student housing, especially for upper classmen. Each residential unit will include student lounge areas, a dining hall and dedicated study spaces."

This sounds more like the residential colleges than the apartments further south.

----------


## HangryHippo

> "OU is committed to building living-learning communities to provide needed student housing, especially for upper classmen. Each residential unit will include student lounge areas, a dining hall and dedicated study spaces."
> 
> This sounds more like the residential colleges than the apartments further south.


It does.  I've yet to see any plans for this complex, but when I scoped out that company's website, it looked like their projects were very much like the Traditions apartments OU built.

----------


## riflesforwatie

> "OU is committed to building living-learning communities to provide needed student housing, especially for upper classmen. Each residential unit will include student lounge areas, a dining hall and dedicated study spaces."
> 
> This sounds more like the residential colleges than the apartments further south.


I think it's PR-speak... the dining hall is a little different than Traditions but dedicated study spaces and student lounge areas are standard at modern university-built apartment complexes and private complexes alike. And even then the dining halls could be required since this complex will expand the on-campus student population enough to stress the facilities in the towers and at the Union and such. But I admit I am mostly speculating on that.

----------


## Pete

I really think this could be more along the residential colleges line because Boren has said those types of facilities are key in keepint upper class students on campus and directly involved with the school, which in turn increases in graduation rates, which then helps all the various ratings metrics.

The description is very similar to how the under construction residential colleges and does not sound like the outside contracted apartments such as Traditions.

I really hope it's residential colleges because I think they are much better for the campus atmosphere and will continue to distinguish OU as one of the few public universities that have similar facilities.

----------


## Pete

As an editorial note, I've always though keeping students on campus is vital to the health of a university.

For the life of me, I cannot understand people who choose to live in some crappy off-campus apartment as soon as their freshmen year is over (believe the university still requires freshmen to live on campus).

I was in a fraternity and lived in the house for 3 years after I left the dorms and it was awesome.  Easy walking distance to all classes, activities and even Campus Corner.  Mock the Greek system all you want but it keeps upper classmen close to campus and many are actively involved with the school outside of class.  I know I sure was.

The Greek system brings it's own problems and I'm sure Boren is thinking these residential colleges will bring the same sort of options, just without the fraternity / sorority baggage.

And BTW, sororities and most fraternities have become so big at OU that after the sophomore year in the house, many of them are now living off campus as well, which I think totally sucks.

I tell every college kid I know:  You have your whole life to live in a  lousy apartment and having to drive everywhere in your car. You are only in college once and you should soak up as much of the university life as possible.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> As an editorial note, I've always though keeping students on campus is vital to the health of a university.
> 
> For the life of me, I cannot understand people who choose to live in some crappy off-campus apartment as soon as their freshmen year is over (believe the university still requires freshmen to live on campus).
> 
> I was in a fraternity and lived in the house for 3 years after I left the dorms and it was awesome.  Easy walking distance to all classes, activities and even Campus Corner.  Mock the Greek system all you want but it keeps upper classmen close to campus and many are actively involved with the school outside of class.  I know I sure was.
> 
> The Greek system brings it's own problems and I'm sure Boren is thinking these residential colleges will bring the same sort of options, just without the fraternity / sorority baggage.
> 
> And BTW, sororities and most fraternities have become so big at OU that after the sophomore year in the house, many of them are now living off campus as well, which I think totally sucks.
> ...


I think it is the cost. The off campus places are noticeably cheaper with no dining plan and all that. I would also think the dry campus thing has some weight to it. Also before the new living area the towers were the only places that people could live. No one wants to live in tiny room shared with a roommate and share a bathroom with four people. As OU upgrades their living situations more people will live on campus for sure.

Most apartments offer free shuttles so people don't have to park. Those are pretty packed daily.

----------


## Pete

^

All true but there are lots more good options on campus these days (Headington Hall, Traditions, and soon the residential colleges) and then there are people in Greek houses that move out ASAP as well.

I understand it's usually more space in an apartment but when you factor in the meal plans it's not any cheaper, or not by much.

And the whole point of college is not to be sitting in your room or apartment but to be on campus and doing things.  Fraternity houses are generally about the same as dorms yet it never bothered me because I only slept in my room and was otherwise on campus, or playing intermurals or having fun on Campus Corner.

The people I know who live off campus typically go to class then go 'home'.  What a waste of a college experience.

----------


## riflesforwatie

> ^
> 
> All true but there are lots more good options on campus these days (Headington Hall, Traditions, and soon the residential colleges) and then there are people in Greek houses that move out ASAP as well.
> 
> I understand it's usually more space in an apartment but when you factor in the meal plans it's not any cheaper, or not by much.
> 
> And the whole point of college is not to be sitting in your room or apartment but to be on campus and doing things.  Fraternity houses are generally about the same as dorms yet it never bothered me because I only slept in my room and was otherwise on campus, or playing intermurals or having fun on Campus Corner.
> 
> The people I know who live off campus typically go to class then go 'home'.  What a waste of a college experience.


I agree completely, but sadly the perception is there that living on campus as an upperclassman just isn't something you typically do. I would also say that the Traditions complexes have not aged well at all (we house a lot of our foreign students/visitors there and while the complexes are better than Kraettli, that's not saying much...). I hope that the residential colleges are better maintained and work towards changing these perceptions!

----------


## Pete

At Thursday's meeting of the regents, they'll vote to approve a new $43 MM academic building for the college of engineering.

Can't find any renderings but it will be built near the other engineering facilities.

By way of comparison, the Devon engineering building was $30 MM.

"In addition to serving the full College of Engineering community, the new academic building to be constructed will house the new School of Biomedical Engineering, which will integrate engineering and medicine and will further develop three areas of existing strength in the College of Engineering: biomedical imaging, nanomedicine and neuroengineering."

----------


## catcherinthewry

It will be where the old ROTC building used to be East of Felgar.

----------


## HangryHippo

Here are some renderings:
BioMed.jpgBioMed2.jpgLayout.jpgLecture.jpg

----------


## HangryHippo

And here are the floorplans:
Floorplan.jpgFloorplan2.jpgFloorplan3.jpg

----------


## Pete

Thanks Nick.

That has turned into quite the engineering complex.

And the addition of biomedical engineering means good things for biotech in the area.

----------


## HangryHippo

> Thanks Nick.
> 
> That has turned into quite the engineering complex.
> 
> And the addition of biomedical engineering means good things for biotech in the area.


It really has.  And hopefully they can really turn it into something great and start spinning off some companies to help Norman's economy.

----------


## BG918

I like the look of the new engineering building and how it fits into the engineering quad.

A big void at OU is an on-campus hotel and conference center.

----------


## Pete

> I like the look of the new engineering building and how it fits into the engineering quad.
> 
> A big void at OU is an on-campus hotel and conference center.


They should use that old continuing education complex just south of the dorms.

Drove by there on Sunday and that is a very poor (and somewhat ugly) use of that property.

----------


## HangryHippo

> They should use that old continuing education complex just south of the dorms.


That whole area is quite ugly and could (should?) be easily razed and converted to an on-campus hotel.  I also would like to see OU extend the campus to the east more.

----------


## riflesforwatie

> That whole area is quite ugly and could (should?) be easily razed and converted to an on-campus hotel.  I also would like to see OU extend the campus to the east more.


OCCE is a conference center currently; I've been to several meetings and such there. It is actively used and the Forum building is actually pretty cool inside. It's dated but well maintained and kinda cool in a mid century modern way. Of course that doesn't mean it couldn't be changed. At one point there was a plan to build an on campus hotel on the research campus somewhere between 5 Partners and Reaves Park. Haven't heard any updates about that in at least 2 years.

----------


## BG918

> That whole area is quite ugly and could (should?) be easily razed and converted to an on-campus hotel.  I also would like to see OU extend the campus to the east more.


Somewhere east of Jenkins or along Jenkins would be a good location.  The OCCE is too outdated and not close to anything.  East campus would be closer to the heart of campus and also walking distance to Campus Corner and the Boyd corridor.

----------


## riflesforwatie

OU to implement bike share program

http://www.oudaily.com/news/ou-to-im...efe00b6b9.html

Article is a little old, but I think they've just finished or are very close to finishing the bike share area just west of Sarkeys Energy Center. IIRC the City of Norman was pretty supportive of this pilot effort, so hopefully it's a success!

Edit: Just found out the official launch is today at 1:30 at OMU, so they really did *just* finish it

----------


## gman11695

Does anybody have any renderings on the buildings replacing the Cross Center area? I saw a podium for a tower crane in place on the corner of Timberdell and Jenkins!

----------


## HangryHippo

> Does anybody have any renderings on the buildings replacing the Cross Center area? I saw a podium for a tower crane in place on the corner of Timberdell and Jenkins!


I haven't seen any renderings, but was told this new project will resemble the Traditions complexes, but with two extra floors.

----------


## BG918

> I haven't seen any renderings, but was told this new project will resemble the Traditions complexes, but with two extra floors.


Hopefully less like Traditions and more like Huntington Hall.   :Smile: 

I know this was one of the reasons the parking garage was built where it is to service these new housing projects as well as commuters and visitors.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> Hopefully less like Traditions and more like Huntington Hall.  
> 
> I know this was one of the reasons the parking garage was built where it is to service these new housing projects as well as commuters and visitors.


OU has to go with the model of individual rooms with just two people sharing a bathroom and 4 sharing a living space. Dorms need to have a swift exit. I liked dorm life but I was off campus as soon as I could to get my own room.

----------


## gman11695

Looks like there are actually two tower crane podiums!

----------


## HangryHippo

> Hopefully less like Traditions and more like Huntington Hall.  
> 
> I know this was one of the reasons the parking garage was built where it is to service these new housing projects as well as commuters and visitors.


If you mean Headington Hall, I wish!  I was told by someone it's not going to look nearly that nice.  Think cheap, big student housing.

----------


## dankrutka

Residential colleges are coming along... They're going to look great.

IMG_8322.JPG

----------


## Dustin

Flipped it for ya.  Beautiful building.

----------


## HangryHippo

> Flipped it for ya.  Beautiful building.


This is an incredible project. I love it.

----------


## KayneMo

Stunning!

----------


## Pete

Recent photo showing some of the campus projects...

New apartments (privately owned) in upper right, residential colleges in lower right, stadium project wrapping up.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

Hearing residential colleges are only at 28% capacity so far. Not a great start. They have really been targeting upperclassmen and I think those students would rather live off campus for cheaper and have relaxing drinking rules.

----------


## Rover

INHO, I think the colleges will fill from the bottom up, not top down.  If you start early when you know your major there is great benefit to communing with others of the same disciplines.  If you enter as a Senior it isn't nearly as effective as you have limited time together and wouldn't necessarily bond the same way with the younger classes as those you might be intimately engaged with over the course of your college experience.  They may try to immediately need to target upperclassmen to try to fill asap, but the stability and efficacy will come from those who enter early and stay.

----------


## HangryHippo

> Hearing residential colleges are only at 28% capacity so far. Not a great start. They have really been targeting upperclassmen and I think those students would rather live off campus for cheaper and have relaxing drinking rules.


I had heard this as well, but then recently heard that it has improved to 39-40% in recent weeks.  I know they only expected 50% capacity for planning purposes when they open so it appears they may be getting close.

----------


## SoonerDave

> I had heard this as well, but then recently heard that it has improved to 39-40% in recent weeks.  I know they only expected 50% capacity for planning purposes when they open so it appears they may be getting close.


Don't the residential dorms add right at $10-12K to your annual student bill? Couldn't remember the number for OU..

----------


## HangryHippo

> Don't the residential dorms add right at $10-12K to your annual student bill? Couldn't remember the number for OU..


Yep - the last I'd heard, it was somewhere between $5,500 and $6,000 per semester.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> Yep - the last I'd heard, it was somewhere between $5,500 and $6,000 per semester.


~$1200 a month for food and rent. I'm not sure how competitive that is.

----------


## riflesforwatie

They're rebuilding the faculty/staff parking lot just east of McCasland Field House. It's about time, it's been in terrible shape for years.

----------


## Pete

> They're rebuilding the faculty/staff parking lot just east of McCasland Field House. It's about time, it's been in terrible shape for years.


I wondered what that was.  Thanks for the info.

They seem to be really cranking on the new housing to the south of Huston Huffman.

----------


## riflesforwatie

I haven't looked at rates in about a year but I think it's pretty favorable relative to The Ave and Varsity House, and definitely favorable relative to Millennium. Don't know how expensive the Callaway House (replacement to Bishops Landing) units are. 

Problem is, as you posted earlier, upperclassmen tend to want to live off campus, so in this case the closeness to campus may not actually be a selling point.

----------


## Pete

Students worry about the dry campus thing but I went to graduate school at Pepperdine and had friends who lived in student housing and even at that ultra-conservative school, there was plenty of drinking happening on campus.

It's pretty much a don't ask / don't tell thing.  They know people are going to drink, they just don't want it to be obvious.

----------


## riflesforwatie

> Students worry about the dry campus thing but I went to graduate school at Pepperdine and had friends who lived in student housing and even at that ultra-conservative school, there was plenty of drinking happening on campus.
> 
> It's pretty much a don't ask / don't tell thing.  They know people are going to drink, they just don't want it to be obvious.


I completely agree. I also agree with Rover above - if you get people in as freshmen and show them living on campus can be "cool", the new colleges will be just fine in 3-4 years. But trying to convert current seniors to it (or even people that experienced a year or two in the towers) is probably a heavy lift. Still if they're already at 40% capacity that's not bad!

----------


## Pete

People judge greeks but I lived in the dorms my freshman year then the frat house for the next 3 and was within easy walking distance of the entire campus and Campus Corner.  It was awesome.

For the life of me, I could never understand people who opt to live in some crappy apartment with tons of non-students and have to hunt for a parking space every day.

I get not wanting to live in the dorms with freshman but on-campus housing of any other type would be strongly preferable to being completely removed from the action.

----------


## riflesforwatie

OU to end free parking at Lloyd Noble Center for fall semester

http://www.oudaily.com/news/ou-to-en...6c129796a.html

This is budget-related on its face, but it wouldn't surprise me if charging for previously free parking is also a way of encouraging some percentage of off-campus students to live on-campus instead.

----------


## Pete

Students will soon figure out that with decent options, living on campus is far superior that driving, searching endlessly for parking, paying for that privilege, then being completely disconnected from the school the moment you drive home.

I realize every 19 year-old is keen to have 'their own place' but their 25 year-old self needs to tell them they have their whole life to live in cheapo apartments and college only comes once.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> OU to end free parking at Lloyd Noble Center for fall semester
> 
> http://www.oudaily.com/news/ou-to-en...6c129796a.html
> 
> This is budget-related on its face, but it wouldn't surprise me if charging for previously free parking is also a way of encouraging some percentage of off-campus students to live on-campus instead.


Ya people are going to be pissed. Having seen the size the free parking grew to last year it was getting very packed. I would see students waiting for up to 30 minutes to get on a bus as each one was packed full. 

I figured they would add more buses but it looks like they are going to thin the herd this way instead. I am surprised they just haven't eliminated freshman parking all together. A lot of other large schools do not allow freshman to park, or they charge very heavy cost to discourage it.

----------


## catcherinthewry

DBo has already ordered that this be reversed per his Twitter account.

----------


## Bunty

> Students will soon figure out that with decent options, living on campus is far superior that driving, searching endlessly for parking, paying for that privilege, then being completely disconnected from the school the moment you drive home.
> 
> I realize every 19 year-old is keen to have 'their own place' but their 25 year-old self needs to tell them they have their whole life to live in cheapo apartments and college only comes once.


Norman needs to copy off of Stillwater.  At Stillwater, mid level apartment complexes have been going up within easy walking distance of OSU with parking for each floor.  So students are not all that disconnected from campus life as they would be from living with the heavy suburban congestion on N. Perkins Rd.  The increased residential density will stimulate commercial development in the area, which surely helps to explain why Sprouts decided to come to Stillwater.

----------


## riflesforwatie

> DBo has already ordered that this be reversed per his Twitter account.


Yeah, that was fast!

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> Norman needs to copy off of Stillwater.  At Stillwater, mid level apartment complexes have been going up within easy walking distance of OSU with parking for each floor.  So students are not all that disconnected from campus life as they would be from living with the heavy suburban congestion on N. Perkins Rd.  The increased residential density will stimulate commercial development in the area, which surely helps to explain why Sprouts decided to come to Stillwater.


There is a lot more empty space around OSU than OU. OU is pretty boxed in and all areas around it are houses and apartments already.

----------


## sooner88

Paid parking is extremely limited there now too. If my sister, who was living at the dorms, came home for the weekend, she would need to leave early Sunday to get a spot on campus.... or she would have to park at Lloyd Noble and take a shuttle back.

----------


## Pete

There is tons and tons of space to the south of the current dorms...  Lots of old, small buildings and land.

They should build another parking structure near the towers that could serve all, including future new units.

And there is a very large private complex just finishing on Brooks to the east of campus.

----------


## dankrutka

I've always been amazed that there aren't more high-density projects around OU. OU does have less land overall, but that should just entice developers to get creative on smaller plots of land...

----------


## Bunty

> There is a lot more empty space around OSU than OU. OU is pretty boxed in and all areas around it are houses and apartments already.


As a matter of fact,  land directly around OSU is prime urban, except for the rural northwest side, which is owned by OSU.  I tend to doubt OSU ever wants to sell that part to private developers.  Old real estate had to be cleared off before two mid rise apartment complexes went up  with a third one now under construction, all near OSU.  So there was no empty space starting out.

----------


## Pete



----------


## FighttheGoodFight

I think the new dorms look great. Can't wait to check them out.

----------


## catcherinthewry

Great pics!

----------


## BG918

Awesome.  Now we just need to see Cate Center redeveloped.  

At one time (about 10 years ago) there was a plan to fully renovate and expand the Huffman Center to the north with a new indoor pool and outdoor pool area.  Now that the Huffman is boxed in to the north I wonder if they would expand to the south where there is a parking lot and green space along 4th St?  That and the aforementioned Cate Center are the last pieces of a significant redevelopment of student housing at OU.  Very few other state universities will have something that matches what OU has with their housing and rec center so central to the rest of campus.

----------


## shavethewhales

Holy crap! I had no idea they had already gotten so far with the old Cross center area. Google maps is so outdated now... I can't believe how much they have built over the last decade, especially with all the budget cuts to everything.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

New living in the old Cross Center area. It is a public-private venture with OU leasing the land.

I have a feeling the towers won't be around in 10 years?

http://www.oudaily.com/news/ou-annou...907c40a42.html

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

Also looks like today the new dorms are 90 percent full which is nice. I also read that if a student is above 21 they are allowed to have alcohol in their dorm but not give to others under 21.

----------


## Pete

Are the renderings for this massive new housing complex (the Cross complex) some sort of ultra top-secret document?

I can't find them anywhere and an article gets written without one image.  So strange.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> Are the renderings for this massive new housing complex (the Cross complex) some sort of ultra top-secret document?
> 
> I can't find them anywhere and an article gets written without one image.  So strange.


I guess they don't have them out yet for some reason. They usually put project at AES when ready: http://www.ou.edu/content/aes/current_projects.html

----------


## HangryHippo

> I guess they don't have them out yet for some reason. They usually put project at AES when ready: http://www.ou.edu/content/aes/current_projects.html


There was a sketch of some sort in a BoR agenda when they first started soliciting proposals, but I haven't seen anything since then.  Have no idea what the finished product is supposed to look like.  I'm hoping they aren't done as cheaply as Traditions.

----------


## OUman

> I also read that if a student is above 21 they are allowed to have alcohol in their dorm but not give to others under 21.


I thought President Boren had made the entire campus area a strict no-alcohol zone for anyone, regardless of age?

----------


## Geographer

> I thought President Boren had made the entire campus area a strict no-alcohol zone for anyone, regardless of age?


I lived in the Traditions Apartments (which are on-campus) about 7 years ago and we were able to have alcohol.

----------


## BG918

> Are the renderings for this massive new housing complex (the Cross complex) some sort of ultra top-secret document?
> 
> I can't find them anywhere and an article gets written without one image.  So strange.


This is the only one I could find.  The article below states the residence halls south of the Huffman Center will have 1,231 beds, 40k SF of retail and academic space and an adjacent 1,000 car parking garage.  At $194 million this is one of the largest non-athletic projects in OU history, and combined with the other residence halls along Lindsey is the largest project in the history of the University.

Timberdell is south of the parking garage which is due east of the swim complex that is slated for eventual replacement either at this location or as part of an expansion of the Huffman Center on the parking lots to the south.  I've heard recently that after the student housing buildings are completed they will begin to address the renovation/expansion of the Huffman Center and make it a hub for student recreation and fitness.


http://www.studenthousingbusiness.co...ty-of-oklahoma

----------


## Zuplar

Are they not going to have a fullsize practice field any longer?

----------


## Pete

Thank you!

----------


## HangryHippo

> I've heard recently that after the student housing buildings are completed they will begin to address the renovation/expansion of the Huffman Center and make it a hub for student recreation and fitness.


I heard this recently as well - it would be nice if they were to actually get serious about updating/expanding the Huff with a new swim complex.  It's badly needed!

----------


## DowntownMan

> Are they not going to have a fullsize practice field any longer?


That's just the turf part. They will have a full one on the west side that is grass and they also utilize fields out by Lloyd noble thst are full sized.

----------


## Zuplar

> That's just the turf part. They will have a full one on the west side that is grass and they also utilize fields out by Lloyd noble thst are full sized.


Thanks

I remembered they used to have a couple right there to the South and just figured they liked having it close.

----------


## HangryHippo

I think you can click this to see a larger version of that same image.
ou-aerial-3-14-17-1000.jpg

----------


## Pete

It's amazing how much things have changed on campus over the years, but there is a huge price to be paid.

Of course OU has to compete with other schools who are building and renovating at big levels as well.

But I just did the math...

I know when I started at OU in 1978, my total tuition and fees were about $800 per year.

Now, that number is $11,284 per year according to the OU website.

Adjusted for inflation, that is still FOUR TIMES the cost!

And the same is true for dorm housing, although after adjusting for inflation today's equivalent the $10,500 per year is only 3.5 X as much as what I paid as a freshman.


It's gotten to the point that it's no longer a slam dunk to send your kids to school because even if you can afford it, the investment (close to $100K for a 4-year, in-state public university) might not be worth it.  And that's sad.

----------


## SoonerDave

> It's amazing how much things have changed on campus over the years, but there is a huge price to be paid.
> 
> Of course OU has to compete with other schools who are building and renovating at big levels as well.
> 
> But I just did the math...
> 
> I know when I started at OU in 1978, my total tuition and fees were about $800 per year.
> 
> Now, that number is $11,284 per year according to the OU website.
> ...


Agree 100%. As nice as those dorms are, and as relatively "economical" as OU is, it still costs an average family what, for them, is a small fortune. It's also why my son is a commuter going into his fourth year after tranferring from OCCC. The costs are insane....and that doesn't even touch the book racket. Then again, when I saw that something like ten or twenty of the faculty in just the Price Business School make in excess of ~.$250-300k annually, you start to see part of the problem.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> It's amazing how much things have changed on campus over the years, but there is a huge price to be paid.
> 
> Of course OU has to compete with other schools who are building and renovating at big levels as well.
> 
> But I just did the math...
> 
> I know when I started at OU in 1978, my total tuition and fees were about $800 per year.
> 
> Now, that number is $11,284 per year according to the OU website.
> ...


What is crazier is that OU and OSU are still (I believe) the cheapest of all the Big 12 schools to go to. Iowa State might be cheaper but a few years ago we were the cheapest here. Just crazy if you live in Texas.

----------


## Pete

There is this constant arms race between schools to upgrade facilities, like the aforementioned Huston Huffman Center swim complex.

Really?  I know other schools have nice pools and such but come on...  This is college not a theme park.  And they aren't even in school during the summers.

I just think this has all gone completely out of control in the attempt to keep up with the Joneses.  

When a middle class family can no longer afford to send their child to the state's flagship public university, it's time to pump the brakes and the opposite seems to be happening.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> There is this constant arms race between schools to upgrade facilities, like the aforementioned Huston Huffman Center swim complex.
> 
> Really?  I know other schools have nice pools and such but come on...  This is college not a theme park.  And they aren't even in school during the summers.
> 
> I just think this has all gone completely out of control in the attempt to keep up with the Joneses.  
> 
> When a middle class family can no longer afford to send their child to the state's flagship public university, it's time to pump the brakes and the opposite seems to be happening.


You can thank student loan companies for that. As long as people take out loans to send people to college the price doesn't matter. 

The state also cuts the funding to the state schools so they raise the only thing they can, tuition. I work at OU and I will say the hiring freeze is rough as well as the cuts. We run very bare bones here and I know for a fact this year we have to eliminate another staff position. We have the lowest staff we have ever had in the last 15 years and we are up something like 300 more students each year. More with less has not been fun.

----------


## Zuplar

> What is crazier is that OU and OSU are still (I believe) the cheapest of all the Big 12 schools to go to. Iowa State might be cheaper but a few years ago we were the cheapest here. Just crazy if you live in Texas.


Surely Kansas State Community College is cheaper. It's like the worst academic school in the Big12. I'd agree Iowa State has got to be towards the bottom as well.

----------


## Pete

From http://www.collegetuitioncompare.com...nce%20Schools:

----------


## Zuplar

Forgot about WVU, but yeah I'd imagine they are towards the bottom as well. I knew 2 people, that couldn't get into UCO that got into K-State. I couldn't believe this. I remember doing some searching at the time and saw that indeed K-State had like 100% admission rate at the time, which was higher than UCO's. They may have since changed, but I've always heard that school is a bottom dweller in academics compared to most all D-1 schools.

Edit. Looking at that list I'm surprise UT is so cheap. It (academically speaking) is one of the more prestigious schools in the Big12 and I'd have thought it would be pricier than it is.

----------


## Pete

Here are the latest academic rankings by US News; Baylor & TCU are private the rest are public:

56 - Texas
71 – Baylor
82 - TCU
111 - Oklahoma
111 - Iowa State
118 – Kansas
135 - Kansas State
152 - Oklahoma State
176 - Texas Tech
183 - West Virginia

----------


## BG918

> Here are the latest academic rankings by US News; Baylor & TCU are private the rest are public:
> 
> 56 - Texas
> 71 – Baylor
> 82 - TCU
> 111 - Oklahoma
> 111 - Iowa State
> 118 – Kansas
> 135 - Kansas State
> ...


I know these are subjective but US News is a pretty good source, and it's good to see OU ranked as high as it is especially with the state continuing to decrease funding.  KU and Iowa State are both excellent public universities and being just ahead of them is wonderful.  

Boren has stated in the past that he wants to see OU become a Top 100 ranked university.  Sadly without more state funding I don't know if that will ever happen.

----------


## mugofbeer

Pete, you and I were at OU at the same time.  I remember,  vividly, the need for athletic facilities because I would be stir crazy between study bi ges.  I also know a lot of weekend nights I might have been playing hoops or some other sport if the Huffman Center had been there..... instead I drank with dorm buddies.  Thank goodness nothing too bad happened but I am totally in favor of having a great student athletic facility to keep students occupied ON CAMPUS.  Some people like to swim so pools are fine.  I think intramural sports, martial arts, weight lifting, etc should virtually be mandatory.  Fitness keeps your brain healthy.

----------


## dankrutka

> I know these are subjective but US News is a pretty good source, and it's good to see OU ranked as high as it is especially with the state continuing to decrease funding.  KU and Iowa State are both excellent public universities and being just ahead of them is wonderful.  
> 
> Boren has stated in the past that he wants to see OU become a Top 100 ranked university.  Sadly without more state funding I don't know if that will ever happen.


First, these rankings are easily gamed and only meaningful because people give them credence. Sorry, I work in academia and a university can improve in meaningful ways without it at all affecting their ranking. There are plenty of stories on this if you're interested. Second, I'm pretty sure OU has already been in the top 100 recently and may be again... and while the rankings are bunk, they can be used by a university in a lot of ways. But, yes, Oklahoma education at all levels desperately needs a funding increase. My friends at universities have told me how drastic slashes have been to important functions that actually do affect student and faculty quality of experiences.

----------


## traxx

> It's gotten to the point that it's no longer a slam dunk to send your kids to school because even if you can afford it, the investment (close to $100K for a 4-year, in-state public university) might not be worth it.  And that's sad.


Absolutely this. And you're right that it might not even be worth it. It used to be a foregone conclusion that a kid would attend college after high school but I think now days parents have to really weigh that. The Art of Manliness (Whose site owner, Brett McKay, is an OU grad) had an interesting series a while back called Is College for Everyone? I also agree with Mike Rowe that vo-techs and the industries that they train for is unfairly looked down upon. An HVAC tech or a plumber may not be a glamorous job, but here in Oklahoma you can comfortably support a family on such pay.

----------


## Zuplar

> First, these rankings are easily gamed and only meaningful because people give them credence. Sorry, I work in academia and a university can improve in meaningful ways without it at all affecting their ranking. There are plenty of stories on this if you're interested. _Second, I'm pretty sure OU has already been in the top 100 recently and may be again._.. and while the rankings are bunk, they can be used by a university in a lot of ways. But, yes, Oklahoma education at all levels desperately needs a funding increase. My friends at universities have told me how drastic slashes have been to important functions that actually do affect student and faculty quality of experiences.


This. 

I'm almost certain as well they were ranked maybe in the 80's in the past 5 years at one point.

----------


## Pete

The third one is of the new physics building on the south oval.

----------


## Zuplar

Great photos Pete.  This all looks fantastic. Real interested to see it come football time.

----------


## catcherinthewry

I know it's been a while but I really like what they did with Gould Hall. It was really ugly when I was there.

----------


## dankrutka

I am sure it's convenient to have those practice fields right next to the stadium, but I'd actually like to see both sides of the stadium entrance developed with campus buildings (e.g., classrooms, student housing, whatever). I actually think the density would give a more impressive feel to the stadium.

----------


## Pete

That area around Jenkins and Lindsey is unrecognizable from just a few years ago.

I know a lot of people bemoaned the razing of that old strip center and the original O'Connell's, but it was a complete dump and they had stopped allowing people in-and-out of the games anyway.

The net effect is that all the commercial and bars became concentrated on Campus Corner which is now also about 10x better with plenty more to come.

----------


## Geographer

From what I've been hearing, the Bud Wilkinson complex of buildings on the NE side of Lindsey/Jenkins will be coming down soon for another project.  I'm sure this has already been discussed though on previous pages of this thread.

----------


## HangryHippo

> From what I've been hearing, the Bud Wilkinson complex of buildings on the NE side of Lindsey/Jenkins will be coming down soon for another project.  I'm sure this has already been discussed though on previous pages of this thread.


Yes, I think they're putting in an academic center and alumni club of sorts for former athletes.

----------


## rcjunkie

This may have already been discussed, but are there plans to remodel/update Loyd Noble. I know they are adding on to the South, but the center looks out dated. Would love to see it bricked to match all the other new construction.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> This may have already been discussed, but are there plans to remodel/update Loyd Noble. I know they are adding on to the South, but the center looks out dated. Would love to see it bricked to match all the other new construction.


Only the Blake Griffin addon is planned now.

----------


## Geographer

I know this is much too late now given all of the recent dollars poured into the LNC, but I would have loved to see McCasland Fieldhouse be renovated and expanded to be the main basketball facility for OU, similar to Gallagher-Iba....build a new "shell" around the existing structure that looks similar.

Just my two-cents :-)

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> I know this is much too late now given all of the recent dollars poured into the LNC, but I would have loved to see McCasland Fieldhouse be renovated and expanded to be the main basketball facility for OU, similar to Gallagher-Iba....build a new "shell" around the existing structure that looks similar.
> 
> Just my two-cents :-)


In the summer of 2012, the OU Athletics Department completed a major renovation of the Field House. The list of improvements included refurbished exterior brick, new windows and entry doors, a complete roof replacement and a remodel of the volleyball offices, locker and team rooms, renovation of main lobby, restrooms and concessions.

----------


## HangryHippo

I would love to see basketball back on campus, but it ain't happening.  Joe C is very pleased with LNC.

----------


## Geographer

I'm aware of the recent renovations to the Field House.  I just meant that it would have been cool if they were able to expand the seating capacity of the Field House in order to be able to accommodate the basketball programs.

----------


## HangryHippo

> I'm aware of the recent renovations to the Field House.  I just meant that it would have been cool if they were able to expand the seating capacity of the Field House in order to be able to accommodate the basketball programs.


Based on the actual attendance, there wouldn't be THAT much expansion required.  There just aren't that many fans attending the games regularly.

----------


## dankrutka

> Based on the actual attendance, there wouldn't be THAT much expansion required.  There just aren't that many fans attending the games regularly.


I think the field house holds under 5,000 and even with the poor attendance at OU games an arena would need to be at least 7,000-8,000. When OU men and women are doing well, they do draw those numbers consistently. I don't think expanding McCasland would make much sense. It's cool as a historic building for volleyball, wrestling, etc., but just isn't suited for modern basketball requirements. I would love to have seen Lloyd Noble torn down and a new stadium built on campus, but they've invested too much around it, unfortunately. A re-cladding of the building would be nice.

----------


## BG918

LNC will be the basketball arena for the foreseeable future but I do think eventually they will need to build a new arena and when that happens it will be built somewhere on the east side of campus near the other athletic facilities.  The new trend with arenas is to make them more mixed-use so they're not empty buildings when there isn't an event.  Look at Milwaukee's new arena as a great example.

----------


## traxx

The LNC is just too big and not very intimate. 5K people in an 11K arena looks bad. 5K in an 8K arena looks a whole lot better, especially on TV.

----------


## Pete

What happened to the plan to completely re-work the seating at LNC?

I remember a few years back there were renderings that showed a more squared-off configuration that brought the seats closer to the floor.

----------


## dankrutka

It would also make sense to turn some of the upper seating into suite areas for small groups (like the sponsored ones at the Peake). That could reduce the seating and raise some extra revenue.

Also, has OU considered selling beer at sporting events? A lot of universities are bringing it back now.

----------


## Jeepnokc

> It would also make sense to turn some of the upper seating into suite areas for small groups (like the sponsored ones at the Peake). That could reduce the seating and raise some extra revenue.
> 
> Also, has OU considered selling beer at sporting events? A lot of universities are bringing it back now.


Based strictly on personal opinion....I don't know if beer will be back in the main areas as long as Boren is President.  Whether that is good or bad.....no opinion.  You can get it on the club level though if you have access.

----------


## catcherinthewry

I hear Boren is about to retire.

----------


## dankrutka

> I hear Boren is about to retire.


It'll be really interesting to see who OU who go with as their next president.

----------


## catcherinthewry

> It'll be really interesting to see who OU who go with as their next president.


How about Joe Castiglione?

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> It'll be really interesting to see who OU who go with as their next president.


The old law school dean or Robert Henry. Kyle Harper is too young still I think.

----------


## Zuplar

> I hear Boren is about to retire.


I've heard that rumor too, literally for the past 10 years. I suppose it's bound to be true at some point.

----------


## John

> It'll be really interesting to see who OU who go with as their next president.


Tom Cole or Frank Keating

----------


## Rover

> Tom Cole or Frank Keating


Sure hope not. We can do much better.

----------


## Rover

> The old law school dean or Robert Henry. Kyle Harper is too young still I think.


Won't be Robert Henry.

----------


## HangryHippo

There's some scuttlebutt that it could be Joe Castiglione.  Probably tough for the academics to swallow, but he'd be an excellent fundraiser.

----------


## traxx

I've heard rumblings of the current president of Southeastern Oklahoma State University taking the job.

----------


## Pete



----------


## Pete

A friend's son just moved into Headington College (not Headington Hall, which is on the east side of Jenkins) one of the two new residential colleges (the other is Dunham College) just south of the stadium.

The first photo is the dining hall that sits between the two residential colleges.

There are single, double and triple rooms and everything is coed.  There are multiple communal restrooms / showers for both genders on every floor.

On the bottom are lounges, study rooms, offices and even some classrooms.

I was told both are now very full if not completely full.  The new parking structure to the south was just about full on a Sunday.

----------


## Zuplar

When are they doing the pressbox work? I thought that was supposed to have already started.

----------


## Pete

> When are they doing the pressbox work? I thought that was supposed to have already started.


That's always been a future project a long with re-doing a lot of the west side.

Also, a new north side scoreboard and some other things.

They usually take a breather after raising a bunch of money, which seems to be the case now.

----------


## Zuplar

> That's always been a future project a long with re-doing a lot of the west side.
> 
> Also, a new north side scoreboard and some other things.
> 
> They usually take a breather after raising a bunch of money, which seems to be the case now.


Gotcha for some reason I thought they had finally set a date to do the pressbox but maybe I'm mixing that up with another one of their many projects.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

OU had a large new class this year. It looks like the dorms are pretty maxed out. Continued growth at OU has been pretty amazing.

----------


## traxx

> That's always been a future project


Kinda like the sign that says 'Free beer tomorrow' it feels like it'll never happen.

----------


## Pete

They tend to oscillate between scholastic capital fund raising and the athletic department.

I suspect they'll turn to some more school buildings then come back to the stadium and other sports projects.

The housing stuff is easy because it's self-funding but they always have to raise money for big academic buildings and renovations.

----------


## riflesforwatie

The Provost's first newsletter of the fall semester (sent about 2 weeks ago) did say that the new Residential Colleges are "almost full" (can't remember the exact wording he used).

----------


## riflesforwatie

> OU had a large new class this year. It looks like the dorms are pretty maxed out. Continued growth at OU has been pretty amazing.


The acceptance rate has been dropping, too, as applications have shot up. Was talking with some colleagues and can't remember the exact number but when I heard our Fall '17 acceptance rate my jaw dropped.

----------


## Pete

What is this new construction in the middle of the engineering complex?

----------


## Casafras

It will be a new biomedical engineering building: http://www.ou.edu/content/coe/galloglyhall.html

----------


## Pete

^

Very nice!

Thanks.

----------


## dankrutka

> That's always been a future project a long with re-doing a lot of the west side.
> 
> Also, a new north side scoreboard and some other things.
> 
> They usually take a breather after raising a bunch of money, which seems to be the case now.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the press box/west side was originally planned to be re-done along with the south endzone, but that plan was scrapped when the Oklahoma economy took a downturn and only the south endzone project moved forward. You can find old renderings with what it was all supposed to look like.

----------


## Zuplar

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the press box/west side was originally planned to be re-done along with the south endzone, but that plan was scrapped when the Oklahoma economy took a downturn and only the south endzone project moved forward. You can find old renderings with what it was all supposed to look like.


I think this is what I was thinking about. Now that you say that it jogs some of my brain compartments.

----------


## Pete

I don't think that was ever the plan.

There was a master plan developed that had the west side and north side being largely re-done but I don't think it was ever announced as anything other than a phased conceptual plan.

----------


## dankrutka

> I don't think that was ever the plan.
> 
> There was a master plan developed that had the west side and north side being largely re-done but I don't think it was ever announced as anything other than a phased conceptual plan.


OU unveiled a full website with all the conceptual plans and efforts to fundraise for both the south and west sides. This is from a 2015 ESPN article when OU scaled back their plans: http://www.espn.com/college-football...novation-plans




> The University of Oklahoma has scaled down an ambitious renovation of Gaylord Family-Oklahoma Memorial Stadium by almost $200 million... Originally, the school had released plans to remodel its press box, renovate the west side of the stadium and add numerous suites, while also improving fan amenities such as better seating, concession stands and restrooms.
> 
> Boren said he expects the school to revisit a potential second phase down the line.


Originally, the south endzone and west side were pitched as one project, but it was scaled back to only include the south endzone. You can see the plan for the west side in the photo:

OU-2.jpg

----------


## Pete

Thanks for the info.

----------


## dankrutka

> Thanks for the info.


Well, I had to look it up because I was a little hazy. OU has done a good job of scrubbing it all off their sites.

----------


## Zuplar

> Well, I had to look it up because I was a little hazy. OU has done a good job of scrubbing it all off their sites.


Thanks for posting this Dan, this is all exactly what I was remembering. I had done a quick google search because I too had remembered a site and couldn't find anything. How quickly they want us all to forget. And really it's not like it matters. I think we all accept that sometimes other projects are more important than upgrade a press box which doesn't really effect us as fans. Maybe one of these days they'll do it.

----------


## Urbanized

^^^^^
Maybe the price of oil will be $100/bbl again one day.

----------


## Geographer

I graduated from OU in 2012 and I am constantly amazed how much the campus has changed in just 5 years. It's quite a time to be a student on campus with all of the new buildings and renovations!

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

New Tailgating Policies:



https://twitter.com/GeorgeStoia/stat...71262819438592

----------


## Zuplar

Ouch, seems like that took a big hit. 

Tailgating at OU has always seemed to be lacking compared to other campuses I've visited.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> Ouch, seems like that took a big hit. 
> 
> Tailgating at OU has always seemed to be lacking compared to other campuses I've visited.


People on social media are up in arms. We will see how this goes on Saturday.

----------


## dankrutka

Yeah, what's the rationale for limiting tailgaiting so much?

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> Yeah, what's the rationale for limiting tailgaiting so much?


They said it was OU policy. I am assuming tailgating can't be within a certain distance of student housing. Since the new dorms are there that eliminated the Lindsey street tailgating. 

I am interested to even see how much they enforce the tailgating limitations. I'll be there on Saturday so I plan on walking around to see what people are doing.

----------


## Zuplar

Yeah let us know, I sold my tickets so won't be going. I'd do some tailgating, but in general it just leaves a lot to be desired in Norman. I wish we did a better job of embracing it, like dare I say, the SEC.

----------


## Zuplar

Just saw a tweet that there is so much backlash on Twitter right now they are holding a meeting to address issue. lol


I think it's time for Boren to go before people turn on him. He's had a good run.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Just saw a tweet that there is so much backlash on Twitter right now they are holding a meeting to address issue. lol
> 
> 
> I think it's time for Boren to go before people turn on him. He's had a good run.


Yeah, if they thought uprising was extreme over Boren allowing the hire of a crappy band director a few years back, they haven't seen anything yet. Eliminating tailgating on Lindsay will make people livid. I've heard that Boren has wanted to do this for awhile and it's ridiculous. He's done a lot of great things for OU, but it's time for some younger blood in Evans Hall.

----------


## Pete

I was just down on Lindsay on Sunday and that's almost all new sod right in front of the residential colleges.

I'm sure that's a least part of this...  And hopefully just temporary.

----------


## Zuplar

If that's the case great, just tell us that so we don't get all pissy for nothing. But I think it's more than that. I heard last year they were going to stop this, so I'm not surprised.

----------


## Pete

Boren is so Provencal about drinking and any sort of 'partying'.

Remember when the new club section first opened on the east side of the stadium, and he was put off by people drinking up there so they banned beer??  That they made this silly covers for the beer taps and tried to pretend they weren't there?

I think he's been fantastic for the school but his attitudes too often reflect his age and level of isolation from the real world.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Boren is so Provencal about drinking and any sort of 'partying'.
> 
> Remember when the new club section first opened on the east side of the stadium, and he was put off by people drinking up there so they banned beer??  That they made this silly covers for the beer taps and tried to pretend they weren't there?
> 
> I think he's been fantastic for the school but his attitudes too often reflect his age and level of isolation from the real world.


He had heart surgery earlier this year. Fingers crossed that it hastens his departure. It's time.

On another note, given the constant need for additional funds for the athletic department, its pretty ridiculous that they haven't started allowing beer sales to the entire stadium. Texas has allowed it over the last few years and it hasn't caused their game days to descend into chaos (at least not off the football field). There's really no reason not to start capitalizing on that additional revenue stream.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the press box/west side was originally planned to be re-done along with the south endzone, but that plan was scrapped when the Oklahoma economy took a downturn and only the south endzone project moved forward. You can find old renderings with what it was all supposed to look like.


It was always  going to be done in phases (no way to do it all in one year).  The difference is that with the economy tanking the phases will have to be spread out further than originally intended.  Also phase 2 will now be a new north side video board

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Ouch, seems like that took a big hit. 
> 
> Tailgating at OU has always seemed to be lacking compared to other campuses I've visited.


It's not.  But it is a lot more spread out

----------


## BoulderSooner

Ou won't have tailgating around dorms ever

----------


## dankrutka

> He had heart surgery earlier this year. Fingers crossed that it hastens his departure. It's time.


 Regardless of what you think of Boren (I think he's been and still is doing a tremendous job overall),  this is really low.  It's disappointing to see someone make a comment like that on this board.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Regardless of what you think of Boren (I think he's been and still is doing a tremendous job overall),  this is really low.  It's disappointing to see someone make a comment like that on this board.


Oh whatever. Cry about it. I didn't wish death or ill health upon him. I meant that I hope the fact that he had heart surgery means he's closer to retiring. As I said before, he's done great things for OU and I appreciate that, but his best days are behind him. A new, younger president (preferably in place before health issues force Boren out of the job) would be better for the future of the school.

----------


## Zuplar

> It's not.  But it is a lot more spread out


Hmm

----------


## Rover

> Boren is so Provencal about drinking and any sort of 'partying'.
> 
> Remember when the new club section first opened on the east side of the stadium, and he was put off by people drinking up there so they banned beer??  That they made this silly covers for the beer taps and tried to pretend they weren't there?
> 
> I think he's been fantastic for the school but his attitudes too often reflect his age and level of isolation from the real world.


You can be critical of his age, but to think he is isolated from the real world is just out of touch yourself.  He is one of the most worldly men in OK... connected in many ways most have no idea of.  His reach and respect from others outside of OK is great.  Here, we tend to criticize him on things like drinking beer and a choice of band directors. In the face of lack of support and dwindling support from our state legislature, the academic growth of OU and improvement in educational facilities has been the best in our history.  Complaining of moving tailgating 5-7 times a year because we built outstanding new college facilities on the site seems pretty silly, imho.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> You can be critical of his age, but to think he is isolated from the real world is just out of touch yourself.  He is one of the most worldly men in OK... connected in many ways most have no idea of.  His reach and respect from others outside of OK is great.  Here, we tend to criticize him on things like drinking beer and a choice of band directors. In the face of lack of support and dwindling support from our state legislature, the academic growth of OU and improvement in educational facilities has been the best in our history.  *Complaining of moving tailgating 5-7 times a year because we built outstanding new college facilities on the site seems pretty silly, imho.*


The point is that there was no legitimate reason given for doing that. People that have tailgated there every year for the last 20+ have reason to be annoyed with it. It's been rumored for years that Boren wants to gradually move tailgating away from the stadium and this is more confirmation of that as are his moves on alcohol related rules around campus over the last 20 years. A heavy focus on academics is great and obviously important for a university president...Boren has excelled in that regard...but slowly sucking the fun out game days doesn't have to coincide with that. The people coming back to enjoy game days (alumni or otherwise) provide a major source of donors for the school and are not a group you want to piss off.

----------


## dankrutka

> Oh whatever. Cry about it. I didn't wish death or ill health upon him. I meant that I hope the fact that he had heart surgery means he's closer to retiring. As I said before, he's done great things for OU and I appreciate that, but his best days are behind him. A new, younger president (preferably in place before health issues force Boren out of the job) would be better for the future of the school.


What newer, younger president with a fraction of the knowledge and connections of Boren would you iike? Boren is not perfect, but his vision and leadership are still incredibly effective. I disagree he's fading. I just disagree on his tailgate policy. Ultimately, the university has bigger fish to fry.

----------


## dcsooner

> Regardless of what you think of Boren (I think he's been and still is doing a tremendous job overall),  this is really low.  It's disappointing to see someone make a comment like that on this board.


+1

----------


## jonny d

> Oh whatever. Cry about it. I didn't wish death or ill health upon him. I meant that I hope the fact that he had heart surgery means he's closer to retiring. As I said before, he's done great things for OU and I appreciate that, but his best days are behind him. A new, younger president (preferably in place before health issues force Boren out of the job) would be better for the future of the school.


I think wishing death (or a hastened death process) should be a ban-able offense. Dude, no act he has ever done is worthy of you saying that! Grow up! That's pathetic!

----------


## PhiAlpha

> What newer, younger president with a fraction of the knowledge and connections of Boren would you iike? Boren is not perfect, but his vision and leadership are still incredibly effective. I disagree he's fading. I just disagree on his tailgate policy. Ultimately, the university has bigger fish to fry.


No idea, picking a new one is not my job. But it would be nice if whoever was chosen could take over the reigns while Boren is still around at the University to mentor that person or at least be available as a resource.

Fair enough. We can agreed to disagree.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> I think wishing death (or a hastened death process) should be a ban-able offense. Dude, no act he has ever done is worthy of you saying that! Grow up! That's pathetic!


And you clearly didn't read my post so that's ok. Think what you want.

----------


## Jersey Boss

As they say, "follow the money".
https://tailgateguys.com/home/ou#tailgate-packages

This is just another cash grab by the powers that run the University.  It was time for Boren to go when he was using the weight of his office to pressure the Oklahoma Geological Survey to bend to the wishes of Continental Resources concerning earthquakes and the cause of them in Oklahoma. 

I also disagree with the posters attacking Phi for his comment on Boren. I read that post as someone wishing for Boren to retire and ride into the sunset, not have the sun set on his life while holding office. The quicker he leaves before the Big 12 implodes, the better our chances for joining the SEC.

----------


## Pete

> You can be critical of his age, but to think he is isolated from the real world is just out of touch yourself.  He is one of the most worldly men in OK... connected in many ways most have no idea of.  His reach and respect from others outside of OK is great.  Here, we tend to criticize him on things like drinking beer and a choice of band directors. In the face of lack of support and dwindling support from our state legislature, the academic growth of OU and improvement in educational facilities has been the best in our history.  Complaining of moving tailgating 5-7 times a year because we built outstanding new college facilities on the site seems pretty silly, imho.


Meant he is out of touch with the average person and how these things are successfully handled much better in almost every other school.

Not at all the same thing as being 'wordly' as I am well aware of his background.

----------


## dankrutka

While Boren has not handled these situations well, from a PR perspective, he handled the OU frat racist chant situation as well as you could. A lot of leaders have made those situations worse. Boren did what was needed to uphold the university reputation (of course, there are a lot of other complexities to that situation but that's for another thread). 

I disagree with how the university handled the Oklahoma Geological Survey/Continental stuff and this tailgating thing, but Boren is operating a public state university in the worst state to run a public state university in the country (see highest higher ed cuts in the nation). When it comes to funding university operations and projects, I am sure he is desperate. It's an awful spot to be in. And he's not going to come out and keep saying it because it would smear the university reputation. But when funding is in absolute crisis mode, I can understand the thinking about finding ways to make money off fan tailgating.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> While Boren has not handled these situations well, from a PR perspective, he handled the OU frat racist chant situation as well as you could. A lot of leaders have made those situations worse. Boren did what was needed to uphold the university reputation (of course, there are a lot of other complexities to that situation but that's for another thread). 
> 
> I disagree with how the university handled the Oklahoma Geological Survey/Continental stuff and this tailgating thing, but Boren is operating a public state university in the worst state to run a public state university in the country (see highest higher ed cuts in the nation). When it comes to funding university operations and projects, I am sure he is desperate. It's an awful spot to be in. And he's not going to come out and keep saying it because it would smear the university reputation. *But when funding is in absolute crisis mode, I can understand the thinking about finding ways to make money off fan tailgating*.


I diagree to an extent on the handling of the fraternity deal but you and I will probably never see eye to eye on that issue. We are both coming from very different places on that situation so I wouldn't expect you to understand my point of view and that's ok.

On charging for tailgating, that's fine too in certain circumstances. But there was still no good reason to eliminate the most popular tailgating area as an option especially now that the dorms and the new south entrance make a much nicer and convenient backdrop for the area.

Maybe charging fans for tailgating on Lindsay is Boren's end game here. Cause an initial outrage by eliminating it altogether and then bring it back as a paid tailgate area with that new tailgate setup company to appear as though he was making a compromise by allowing it. If they had just decided to charge for tailgating on Lindsay people arguably would've been more angry than they are now. Given what it costs to go to a game now, I would still be annoyed if they charge for tailgating down there, but it would be better than nothing. If that's not Boren's end game, maybe it should be.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

New tailgating areas have been opened.

----------


## Zuplar

I like how this time they used the newest map available. Nice to see they caved, to some degree.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> I like how this time they used the newest map available. Nice to see they caved, to some degree.


I guess...still not good enough.

----------


## Geographer

I may be in the minority here, but I think it would be cool to concentrate the majority of tailgating to the Duck Pond area....sort of a "Grove" concept that exists at Ole Miss.

----------


## BG918

> I may be in the minority here, but I think it would be cool to concentrate the majority of tailgating to the Duck Pond area....sort of a "Grove" concept that exists at Ole Miss.


I agree, I've always thought that would be a great location.  There and along Brooks east of Jenkins. 

Tailgating has always been dispersed at OU with several "pockets" around campus, people hanging out at Campus Corner bars and people at houses around campus.  It's a different scene than other schools.

----------


## HangryHippo

> I may be in the minority here, but I think it would be cool to concentrate the majority of tailgating to the Duck Pond area....sort of a "Grove" concept that exists at Ole Miss.


I love this idea!  It would be awesome.

----------


## John

This has nothing to do with the dorms, but I bet if you look at the contract OU has signed with 'The Tailgate Guys,' it probably says that they will be the closet tailgating to the stadium within XYZ feet...

Pete, you should put in a FOIA request to see what kind of deal we made with them.

----------


## Pete

More on what they are calling Cross Neighborhood:

4 buildings each with 300 bedsLarge adjacent parking structureCommunal kitchen on each floorNo dining hall; instead there will be restaurants on the ground floor, open to allA private company is developing on a ground lease from OU (costs the university nothing to get this done) and complete ownership reverts to OU after 40 yearsThe 1,200 units will combine with the 600 units in the new residential colleges to provide much more on-campus housing, mainly for upper classmen

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

Awesome.

----------


## Pete

There are still huge blocks of space on the south part of campus which are either empty or very under-utilized.

If Cross fills up, they consider doing more of these residential projects.  Everyone wins when people live close or on campus.

----------


## Martin

you circled the tennis courts as being underutilized... those are fighting words. : )

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

OCCE will be the next area to be torn down and redone. It is very old and underused.

I do believe the area south of the Sam Noble Museum is owned by Sam Noble or they have some sort of agreement in place in case they want to expand in the future.

----------


## Pete

Want to give a big compliment to OU on the first home football game this season.

I griped and griped in recent years about being in the stadium and them doing a horrible job of keeping you informed about other games in progress.  They are still really bad about this, scrolling through all the Top 25 game scores even though 90% of them didn't start until later.

However, I was able to login into free wifi within the stadium so I could follow on my own.

For a while, due to cellular traffic, being inside the stadium was one of the few places on earth where you were almost completely cutoff from the outside world.  Seems like that has been remedied with the wifi and is a huge step forward.

----------


## Zuplar

Glad they added the WiFi, cause like you said, it's always been a black hole.

----------


## riflesforwatie

Pete, some thoughts on certain areas you circled...

Reaves Park is very well-used throughout the year. My understanding was that the City of Norman and the University did not reach an agreement on trading other OU property for Reaves, so I think it will remain in City hands for the near future. The block circled north of Reaves is also well-used for intramural activities and all sorts of other stuff, again throughout the year. There's no argument from me on redeveloping Kraettli Apartments, though, or some of the parking at LNC, or the northern part of the Research Campus (occupied by the Biological and Archaeological Surveys). The area immediately south of Sam Noble is used for some wilderness/prairie research currently, and I think it'd be worthwhile to preserve that. OCCE has been discussed on here previously. I know everyone says it's underutilized (not sure how to define that) but over the years I've been involved in tons of events there, both for on-campus and off-campus groups, including very recently. So any redevelopment of OCCE would require OU to build out additional event and conference space.

----------


## Pete

I'm certainly not advocating developing all those highlighted areas, just trying to show how much open space there still is in the area.

Regarding OCCE, all it would take is building one new facility for them somewhere (maybe even on the present site) and then that property could be used for more housing or another dense purpose.

People have mentioned going denser on the site of Cate Center but it seems that there should be at least a classroom component in anything on that site, and maybe exclusively so.

Then, you keep the classrooms pretty much in the center, housing surrounding that then parking on the perimeter.

----------


## riflesforwatie

> I'm certainly not advocating developing all those highlighted areas, just trying to show how much open space there still is in the area.
> 
> Regarding OCCE, all it would take is building one new facility for them somewhere (maybe even on the present site) and then that property could be used for more housing or another dense purpose.
> 
> People have mentioned going denser on the site of Cate Center but it seems that there should be at least a classroom component in anything on that site, and maybe exclusively so.
> 
> Then, you keep the classrooms pretty much in the center, housing surrounding that then parking on the perimeter.


I think my ideal outcome for an OCCE replacement would be for new event space to be built north of the current Research Campus. At one point there were rumblings about a University hotel/conference center in the space anyway. Then redevelop OCCE as housing or academic space. Agree that Cate should be academic in nature... eventually space in the academic core of campus will run out. One thing I would ask, just in general: should University campuses adhere to mixed-use precepts? In other words, does it make sense to keep athletics together, housing together, and academics together, or to mix them all together. I can see advantages to both approaches.

----------


## Pete

^

Speaking of mixed-use, the residential colleges actually have faculty offices and classrooms within them.

I like the idea of the central part of campus being primarily focused on academics.  Especially for students who can leave their housing then move easily between classes.

But, I also like that OU has the rare stadium that is actually on campus instead of in some out-lying area surrounded by a sea of parking.  I know it cramps the style of tailgaiters but frankly, I don't want to be standing is someone's tent when I'm in Norman...  I want to walk the beautiful campus, patronize the businesses, move around and see lots of people and sights.  Campus Corner is finally starting to become fully realilzed and is already way, way better than just a decade ago.

I think OU has done all this pretty well; just wish the basketball facility was still near the stadium for all the same reasons I like the stadium location.

And parking should be confined to the perimeter with people either walking, biking or taking a trolley to destinations.

----------


## dcsooner

> Awesome.


Wow, transformational on campus development

----------


## BG918

OU ranked 97th in 2018 university rankings from U.S. News and World Report.  Also 44th among public universities.

The University of Tulsa is 87th.  Oklahoma State is 156th.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state...bd7dd30d4.html

----------


## Pete

Here are the US News rankings for all the Big 12 schools.

First number is 2018, second is 2017.


56, 56 - Texas
75, 71 – Baylor
78, 82 - TCU
97, 111 - Oklahoma
115, 111 - Iowa State
115, 118 – Kansas
145, 135 - Kansas State
156, 152 - Oklahoma State
176, 176 - Texas Tech
187, 183 - West Virginia

----------


## dcsooner

> OU ranked 97th in 2018 university rankings from U.S. News and World Report.  Also 44th among public universities.
> 
> The University of Tulsa is 87th.  Oklahoma State is 156th.
> 
> http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state...bd7dd30d4.html


That is AWESOME!. OU continues to improve its academic reputation which as an alum makes me extremely proud

----------


## HangryHippo

I know the rankings are a matter of some debate, but it's great to see OU at 97!

----------


## BG918

> I know the rankings are a matter of some debate, but it's great to see OU at 97!


Agree, now staying in that Top 100 and Top 50 public universities is important.  Especially with reduced state funding it is a testament to what the OU administration has been able to accomplish in raising OU's profile and transforming the campus.  OU still has a lot of work to do to increase admissions standards, expand graduate programs, build up the STEM programs specifically life sciences and technology, and more research at the Norman campus and HSC.

----------


## dankrutka

I'm always the one that points out how absurd and educationally meaningless the rankings are as a measure for ranking schools. But, of course, because people believe the rankings are important and meaningful, it is still good for schools to be ranked high. There are real benefits in terms of student recruitment and university access to opportunities and partnerships. As long as there are rankings, of course I want my alma mater (OU) to rank high. 

I know I'm a broken record, but it's just frustrating that higher education institutions -- places of learning and research -- do so much to verify what amounts to sloppy methods and pseudoscience. Of course, our society loves simple numbers and misuses them in a lot of other educational areas too (e.g., IQ test measures culturally biased and narrow forms of knowledge and problem solving that are only moderately telling, ACT/SAT/GRE are poor predictors of college success...). Anyway, good for OU. *grumble, grumble*

----------


## Pete

OU Ranked Among Top 50 Public Universities in Nation
By Public Affairs, (405) 325-1701 

NORMAN — For the first time in history, the University of Oklahoma has been ranked among the top 100 colleges and universities in the nation, public or private, according to U.S. News & World Report. In its 2018 Best Colleges rankings, OU is ranked among the best national universities as No. 97 overall – up from No. 111 in 2017 – and as No. 44 among public institutions. OU’s petroleum engineering program has been ranked in the top 3 among specialties at engineering schools whose highest degree is a doctorate, and OU’s Michael F. Price College of Business has been ranked among the top 43 best business programs at a public institution.

 “This recognition marks a truly historic moment for the university,” said OU President David L. Boren. “The hard work and dedication of all members of the OU family have made this achievement possible. It confirms the high quality of education and standard of excellence that have become synonymous with the University of Oklahoma.”

Earlier this year, OU was recognized as being among the top institutions in the nation for its online degree programs. U.S. News & World Report ranked OU No. 2 in the category of “Best Online Bachelor’s Programs for Veterans,” which includes programs for active duty soldiers. Additionally, OU was named No. 3 in the overall category of “Best Online Bachelor’s Programs” and tied for No. 5 in the category of “Best Online Graduate Criminal Justice Programs.”

The 2018 Best Colleges ranking is the latest in a recent series of major accolades for OU. The Princeton Review ranked OU first in the nation for student happiness among public universities. Bizzell Memorial Library was named among the top 18 most stunning university libraries in the world by Architectural Digest. Additionally, INSIGHT Into Diversity selected OU as a recipient of the Higher Education Excellence in Diversity Award for the second consecutive year.

For the 2018 Best Colleges rankings, U.S. News & World Report based its findings on several key measures of quality, such as graduation and retention rates, assessment of excellence, faculty resources, student selectivity, financial resources, graduation rate performance and alumni giving.

U.S. News & World Report’s complete list of the 2018 college rankings can be found at www.usnews.com/best-colleges.

----------


## Dustin

Wow! Great news!

----------


## Rover

> I'm always the one that points out how absurd and educationally meaningless the rankings are as a measure for ranking schools. But, of course, because people believe the rankings are important and meaningful, it is still good for schools to be ranked high. There are real benefits in terms of student recruitment and university access to opportunities and partnerships. As long as there are rankings, of course I want my alma mater (OU) to rank high. 
> 
> I know I'm a broken record, but it's just frustrating that higher education institutions -- places of learning and research -- do so much to verify what amounts to sloppy methods and pseudoscience. Of course, our society loves simple numbers and misuses them in a lot of other educational areas too (e.g., IQ test measures culturally biased and narrow forms of knowledge and problem solving that are only moderately telling, ACT/SAT/GRE are poor predictors of college success...). Anyway, good for OU. *grumble, grumble*


As long as the meathodology of the rankings is known then they can be used properly.
I know it is fashionable right now to discredit all measurements of facts and claim opinion is just as valid.  We want to claim that all is equal when in fact it is not. Some individuals and institutions excel and others don't. We should attempt to excel in this state instead of diminish.  Does this ranking mean that everyone who goes to OU will be successful...of course not. Individuals can outperform or underperform any organization they participate in.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

OU had a 92% rate of freshman coming back for sophomore year. The highest they have had. Good news!

----------


## dankrutka

> As long as the meathodology of the rankings is known then they can be used properly.
> I know it is fashionable right now to discredit all measurements of facts and claim opinion is just as valid.  We want to claim that all is equal when in fact it is not. Some individuals and institutions excel and others don't. We should attempt to excel in this state instead of diminish.  Does this ranking mean that everyone who goes to OU will be successful...of course not. Individuals can outperform or underperform any organization they participate in.


Yeah, considering it's my job, I do understand how research works. My criticism isn't because I think it's cool to tear down "valid" studies, but specifically because these rankings are bad research. If I was reviewing these rankings in a journal I would reject the methodology. The measures are not valid, they're easily gamed, and many of the criteria have nothing to do with educational quality. In research, you have to operationalize your variables and the criteria they use to determine educational quality wouldn't pass muster. In fact, these rankings literally started with a questionairre to university presidents that asked, which school is best? Are you surprised Harvard and Yale do well? But that doesn't tell us almost anything tangible about the actual educational quality of the institutions.

----------


## Rover

> Yeah, considering it's my job, I do understand how research works. My criticism isn't because I think it's cool to tear down "valid" studies, but specifically because these rankings are bad research. If I was reviewing these rankings in a journal I would reject the methodology. The measures are not valid, they're easily gamed, and many of the criteria have nothing to do with educational quality. In research, you have to operationalize your variables and the criteria they use to determine educational quality wouldn't pass muster. In fact, these rankings literally started with a questionairre to university presidents that asked, which school is best? Are you surprised Harvard and Yale do well? But that doesn't tell us almost anything tangible about the actual educational quality of the institutions.


So, what is your criteria?  Or do you just think there is no quality measurement?  Sometimes asking peers to judge each other is actually a good measure unless you suggest they don't know the subject.  In business we generally know who is running good businesses and who isn't.  I suspects in academia they do too.  

Serious question, is research regarding education in your area of expertise and experience, or just research in general?

----------


## dankrutka

I am an educational researcher. Not specifically, in higher education quality, but I know enough about educational quality research to be able to decipher whether the methods are actually measuring worthwhile criteria. While reputation might work well in some fields, particularly business, it doesn't translate well to education. For example, I am pretty familiar with UCO's undergraduate education program, and it is very high quality. Based on the rankings criteria, which does almost nothing to assess educational quality, there is zero chance they could rank as high OU due to factors that show weak correlation to the quality of education --  graduation and retention rates, assessment of excellence, faculty resources, student selectivity, financial resources, graduation rate performance and alumni giving. These criteria guarantee OU will finish above UCO regardless of what UCO does. Only the first two factors even relate to educational quality -- and they're important even if the "assessment" is weak. If UCO created the greatest teacher education program in the U.S., it would still fall dramatically behind OU based on the criteria. It's a status quo, circular loop ranking that has no way to account for educational quality beyond graduation rates and their "assessment" (and those are outweighed by the other criteria). Do you think it's a good system if it can't even account for dramatic changes and doesn't really measure quality in any meaningful way? And.  By the way, many universities are not a game these rankings  without making meaningful changes. It's not hard to find a lot of stories on it.

----------


## Rover

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

----------


## Pete



----------


## FighttheGoodFight

BTW the home games this season have been awesome. Just love the new stadium. Wish we had OSU at home this year.

----------


## Pete

Some photos of the newly remodeled basement level at Bizzell Library:

http://www.oudaily.com/gallery/zarro...a2ec4b6.html#6

----------


## Pete

Some photos of the newly remodeled basement level at Bizzell Library:

http://www.oudaily.com/gallery/zarro...a2ec4b6.html#6

----------


## dankrutka

Beautiful. The interior, from furniture to finishings, of OU buildings are incredibly nice. I visit a lot of college campuses and I have never been at a university that has nicer interiors of buildings than OU.

----------


## Pete

> Beautiful. The interior, from furniture to finishings, of OU buildings are incredibly nice. I visit a lot of college campuses and I have never been at a university that has nicer interiors of buildings than OU.


That has all been done in the Boren era.  I guarantee you he and Molly had a big influence on all that.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> That has all been done in the Boren era.  I guarantee you he and Molly had a big influence on all that.


Molly picks out all the paint colors as well as the furniture. Well known around these parts.

----------


## Pete

They are not messing around at Cross Village:

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

I think Cross village will be a hit. The numbers of students we have just keeps going up.

----------


## traxx

Are there any plans to replace Walker and Adams? Those buildings are looking kinda dated now and I'm sure the rooms are outdated by now.

----------


## Lazio85

> They are not messing around at Cross Village:


August 2018 is the planned opening for these units.

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## FighttheGoodFight

> Are there any plans to replace Walker and Adams? Those buildings are looking kinda dated now and I'm sure the rooms are outdated by now.


They are not a replacement no. The towers were updates in 2008 with all new flooring, furniture and such. I know that last semester they actually ran out of dorm space for all freshman so some got to more to Hedington for the same price as the regular dorms.

These are upperclassman rooms I believe.

----------


## Pete

They have some freshman in the new residential colleges as well.

The incoming classes keep growing and Freshman are required to live on campus, apart from strict circumstances.

----------


## traxx

> They are not a replacement no. The towers were updates in 2008 with all new flooring, furniture and such. I know that last semester they actually ran out of dorm space for all freshman so some got to more to Hedington for the same price as the regular dorms.
> 
> These are upperclassman rooms I believe.


No, I didn't say that anything currently under construction was a replacement for those towers. My question was, is there any plan to replace those towers.

----------


## Pete

> No, I didn't say that anything currently under construction was a replacement for those towers. My question was, is there any plan to replace those towers.


I seriously doubt it.

And they might not be beautiful but they are functional.

----------


## traxx

> I seriously doubt it.
> 
> And they might not be beautiful but they are functional.


I figure they still have a lot of years of functionality left in 'em. But with all the new construction going on, they look increasingly out of place and out of time.

----------


## Pete

> I figure they still have a lot of years of functionality left in 'em. But with all the new construction going on, they look increasingly out of place and out of time.


The Physical Sciences Center (the Blender) is way, way worse and I've never heard any rumblings about doing much with it.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> The Physical Sciences Center (the Blender) is way, way worse and I've never heard any rumblings about doing much with it.


Sarkeys, Dale Hall and the Physical Sciences Center need to be redone. They are so old I believe they would have to be completely taken down. Since the campus is having classroom issues, with no new classroom buildings being built, it is nearly impossible to take any of those buildings offline.

----------


## dankrutka

> The Physical Sciences Center (the Blender) is way, way worse and I've never heard any rumblings about doing much with it.


I've been asking about a tear down and replacement since the first time I saw it. Lol. Definitely the worst building on campus.

----------


## traxx

> The Physical Sciences Center (the Blender) is way, way worse and I've never heard any rumblings about doing much with it.


Yeah, you gotta wonder what the architect who designed the blender was thinking. That building is horrible. I can't imagine it being any better when it was brand new.

----------


## traxx

dbl post

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> Yeah, you gotta wonder what the architect who designed the blender was thinking. That building is horrible. I can't imagine it being any better when it was brand new.


It was the 60s and the student growth had exploded in recent years. They just built what would house the most students I'm sure.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Sarkeys, Dale Hall and the Physical Sciences Center need to be redone. They are so old I believe they would have to be completely taken down. Since the campus is having classroom issues, with no new classroom buildings being built, it is nearly impossible to take any of those buildings offline.


Sarkey's was renovated pretty recently or at least most of the tower floors were and the classrooms and library were all fine when I was there, but I'm sure could use an refresh. Saying that a tower with that much space in it needs to be torn down is pretty comical.

----------


## dankrutka

I think Sarkey's is fine. But there's just really no fixing the exterior facade's of Dale Hall or the Blender.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> It was the 60s and the student growth had exploded in recent years. They just built what would house the most students I'm sure.


Heard the bottom of it was built like a concrete bunker due to fear of riots in the 60s and to be used as a fallout shelter if necessary or something like that. Not sure if that was true but they told incoming students that on campus tours.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> I think Sarkey's is fine. But there's just really no fixing the exterior facade's of Dale Hall or the Blender.


I always thought they could improve it's appearance by staining the concrete on the corners and the upper and lower horizontal concrete sections of the tower a brick like red color. Something could also be done with the window glass to make it look better. That would at least make it blend better with the rest of campus. They would have to get more creative with the base but I'm sure they could think of something.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

New Baptist Student Union going in at a parking lot close to Adams. If you remember they tore down the old one by the president's house a few years back and it is a now a park and parking lot. 

location:

----------


## ChargerAg

> New Baptist Student Union going in at a parking lot close to Adams. If you remember they tore down the old one by the president's house a few years back and it is a now a park and parking lot.


baptist.jpg


not sure why the picture shows up so small.    click on it to make it bigger.

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## HangryHippo

Wow - that is ugly and I don't really like the location they've got.

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## Pete

Cross Village

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## HangryHippo

That is a neat looking project, but there are a couple of things that are odd to me about it after driving by:
1.  It's set really far back from Jenkins St.
2.  The garage is in an odd place.

----------


## Pete

Everything south of Lindsey sits very far back from Jenkins.

I suspect there is a road easement at play, especially since Jenkins is only 2 lanes.

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## HangryHippo

> Everything south of Lindsey sits very far back from Jenkins.
> 
> I suspect there is a road easement at play, especially since Jenkins is only 2 lanes.


Ah, that makes perfect sense.  Thanks for the picture, Pete!

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## BG918

> Wow - that is ugly and I don't really like the location they've got.


Good to see parking lot infill around the dorms though.  I imagine we'll continue to see more redevelopment of the area south of Lindsey and east of Chautauqua north of the Greek houses.  I'm hoping the next area to be transformed is around Campus Corner.

----------


## HangryHippo

> Good to see parking lot infill around the dorms though.  I imagine we'll continue to see more redevelopment of the area south of Lindsey and east of Chautauqua north of the Greek houses.  I'm hoping the next area to be transformed is around Campus Corner.


Very true, BG. I love seeing parking lots disappear. I also hope they start transforming Campus Corner. I did see that the Skinny Slims looks like its getting close and there was another new business next to it.

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## dankrutka

> Very true, BG. I love seeing parking lots disappear. I also hope they start transforming Campus Corner. I did see that the Skinny Slims looks like it’s getting close and there was another new business next to it.


Opolis Clothing is next to Skinny Slims. I stopped there on a gameday in the fall and the Opolis store wasn't very built out. I'm not sure whether they were just opening for gameday or if they were keeping it as is. Also, the Porch and their balcony facing Boyd should add some activity to the area. 

Here's a run down of new Campus Corner businesses: http://www.oudaily.com/news/campus-c...499837e0d.html

----------


## HangryHippo

> Opolis Clothing is next to Skinny Slims. I stopped there on a gameday in the fall and the Opolis store wasn't very built out. I'm not sure whether they were just opening for gameday or if they were keeping it as is. Also, the Porch and their balcony facing Boyd should add some activity to the area. 
> 
> Here's a run down of new Campus Corner businesses: http://www.oudaily.com/news/campus-c...499837e0d.html


Thanks, Dan!  I couldn't remember Opolis.  And I had forgotten about the Porch.  Losing CVS left quite a hole.  If they could lease that out and get the parking lot in front of Hurts Donuts developed, that would make a big difference.  Also the project that's planned for the service station east of NY Pizza will help make a difference.

----------


## dankrutka

> ...get the parking lot in front of Hurts Donuts developed, that would make a big difference.


Agree with all you said. In particular, I've always wanted to see that parking lot developed with small pedestrian walkways in between the new building and the existing ones. A new building there could make that whole area feel so much more urban and a number of businesses too. Campus Corner is a great urban district.

----------


## mugofbeer

My wish is for close-in condos.

----------


## Pete

> My wish is for close-in condos.


Boren had said this was a priority, as the university benefits when alums stay close and there is a strong desire by many to do so.  Believe there were even renderings for a large project south of the Duck Pond.

Not much has happened since, however.

----------


## Geographer

I'm really impressed with the progress that the University has made just in the last 10 years, which is when I was a freshman at OU.  It's amazing to see the total transformation of most areas south of Lindsey and east of Asp.....not to mention the new buildings on the South Oval and the countless renovations happening across campus.

Oh and there's also the stadium too... ;-)

----------


## mugofbeer

> I'm really impressed with the progress that the University has made just in the last 10 years, which is when I was a freshman at OU.  It's amazing to see the total transformation of most areas south of Lindsey and east of Asp.....not to mention the new buildings on the South Oval and the countless renovations happening across campus.
> 
> Oh and there's also the stadium too... ;-)


OMG, what has been done since 1980!!  Hoping my son chooses there next year to be the 4th generation in my family.

----------


## Pete

Over $1 billion in capital improvements in the Boren era, and it really shows.

Just about every building has been renovated and lots of completely new construction.

They have done a fantastic job with the outdoor spaces too, with great landscaping and lots of patios, water features and public art.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> Over $1 billion in capital improvements in the Boren era, and it really shows.
> 
> Just about every building has been renovated and lots of completely new construction.
> 
> They have done a fantastic job with the outdoor spaces too, with great landscaping and lots of patios, water features and public art.


Don't forget Molly Shi Boren gets some credit for that. She is big advocated for the beautification of campus.

----------


## catcherinthewry

The landscaping was great long before the Borens.

----------


## Rover

> The landscaping was great long before the Borens.


Not when I was in school. Landscaping was basic. Molly has really championed the improvements, which are noticeable. Credit where credit is due.

----------


## catcherinthewry

> Not when I was in school. Landscaping was basic. Molly has really championed the improvements, which are noticeable. Credit where credit is due.


Damn, you must've gone there a long time ago. I was at OU in the 80s and the landscaping was the same then as it is now. The difference is the outdoor art, some of which I like, some not so much. For that I'm willing to give credit to whomever it is due.

----------


## mugofbeer

> Damn, you must've gone there a long time ago. I was at OU in the 80s and the landscaping was the same then as it is now. The difference is the outdoor art, some of which I like, some not so much. For that I'm willing to give credit to whomever it is due.


Landscaping improvements started just before I started in 1977 and throughout my 8 years (kidding) 4 years there.  It has continued ever since and what was put in has matured.

----------


## Rover

I graduated in 75 but have been involved since then and attend many events every year.  I also have known employees directly involved. The attention to grounds maintenance and enhancement has steadily improved except for the last few years of budget strife.  And Molly has been the driver.  This is true in Norman, but particularly true in OKC at the medical/dental campus.

----------


## catcherinthewry

I started attending OU in '79. I can't think of any significant improvement to the landscaping since then other than the outdoor art. I've always thought it was beautiful.

----------


## Jeepnokc

> I graduated in 75 .


  LOL.  For some reason I also thought you were in your twenties.  This would put you in your 60's.  Don't know why I pictured you in your twenties.  I graduated in 92 and the grounds were beautiful then.  Don't see much difference other than a few new art pieces here and there.

----------


## Rover

There are many the public may not be aware of if they only go the ball games.  For instance, projects like the engineering plaza, fountain plaza, etc.  There are small gardens all over that weren’t there before, and the maintenance much better. The flower planting on South Oval is often spectacular.   It was just grass pits previously.  

And, take a walk on the OKC campus...you’ll be surprised.

The board of regents has particularly recognized Molly for the beautification effort, culminating in OU being named one of the 25 most beautiful campuses since 2014. It never won those awards earlier and used to be considered less attractive than Missouri, U of Kansas, OSU and U of Texas... just in our conference.

I know many on here don’t like OU and some don’t like Boren, but no one can deny it is a really beautiful campus.  Thanks Molly

----------


## Dustin

Finally.

http://www.oudaily.com/sports/oklaho...a3411874d.html

----------


## Pete

New physics addition.

----------


## Pete

Cross Village:

----------


## catcherinthewry

I was down there yesterday. The new bio-chemistry building is coming along nicely as well.

----------


## pw405

What intersection is Cross village at?  I graduated in 08 and recently took a drive through campus.... I barely recognize anything south of Lindsey street.

----------


## Pete

> What intersection is Cross village at?  I graduated in 08 and recently took a drive through campus.... I barely recognize anything south of Lindsey street.


It's on the site of the old Cross Center dorms, south of Lindsey on the west side of Jenkins.

Just north of Timberdell / old swim complex; southeast of the dorm towers.

----------


## dankrutka

The new dorms are great and such an improvement.

The new Physics building is nice and fits the campus style well, but is it just me or do a lot of these new buildings just feel too generic? They basically are meant to mimic the older buildings on campus, but lack the detail or idiosyncrasies. I’m sure that’s just modern, cost-effective architecture. Just thinking out loud...

----------


## BG918

I personally like that all of the new buildings are in the same style.  I wouldn’t mind seeing some modern elements though from time to time.  Devon Energy Hall did a good job with that IMO.  And good to sometimes see something completely different where appropriate like the Art Museum.  I wish the Architecture school would’ve taken a similar detour from the campus norm.

I love the new dorms and look forward to the day when they replace Cate Center and new dorms line Lindsey through campus.  And the Huffman Center gets an overhaul.  Those have to be some of the last major deficiencies along with a replacement for GL Cross for new bioscience and lab space on campus.

----------


## mugofbeer

As long as the facilities and the faculty are improving along with the campus, I love the consistent Cherokee Gotbic style.  I'm fine with consistent architecture.

----------


## Pete

> The new dorms are great and such an improvement.
> 
> The new Physics building is nice and fits the campus style well, but is it just me or do a lot of these new buildings just feel too generic? They basically are meant to mimic the older buildings on campus, but lack the detail or idiosyncrasies. I’m sure that’s just modern, cost-effective architecture. Just thinking out loud...


When they are attached additions like Physics or Business, I think the goal is to blend in as much as possible.

But when they are renovating stand-alone buildings like Architecture or Education -- or are building completely new like the Devon Energy Center or the dorms -- they tend to go with a more updated look that is still in harmony with the overall campus architecture.

I absolutely loving walking all through that campus.  So many beautiful buildings and interiors and scores of small pockets with outdoor seating , art and water features.

It's like they've taken the best of the campus and just keep adding and improving.

----------


## HangryHippo

> The new dorms are great and such an improvement.


Agreed!  The new dorms (Headington Hall and the Residential Colleges) are incredible - by far my favorite additions to the campus.




> The new Physics building is nice and fits the campus style well, but is it just me or do a lot of these new buildings just feel too generic? They basically are meant to mimic the older buildings on campus, but lack the detail or idiosyncrasies. I’m sure that’s just modern, cost-effective architecture. Just thinking out loud...


Not at all, IMO.  I love the additions and the fact they blend in/mimic the older buildings as the consistent architectural theme is one of my favorite things about campus.  I don't think modern ages very well so I'm glad we don't have a lot of it.  I do think they missed the mark with the Gould Hall renovation (I hate the windows) and they desperately need to replace GL Cross.  That place is just worn out.

----------


## dankrutka

Just to clarify, I was not advocating for modern. I like that all the new buildings blend. I was just thinking they're kind of generic. I think I'm really just commenting on modern architecture though. I guess they don't do gargoyles and hand made details anymore. And, don't get me wrong, I'm just being picky because I think the campus is beautiful and has been improved immensely.

----------


## Urbanized

From last night’s ULI Oklahoma Impact Awards: https://twitter.com/ulioklahoma/stat...36950747607042

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> Just to clarify, I was not advocating for modern. I like that all the new buildings blend. I was just thinking they're kind of generic. I think I'm really just commenting on modern architecture though. I guess they don't do gargoyles and hand made details anymore. And, don't get me wrong, I'm just being picky because I think the campus is beautiful and has been improved immensely.


They changed the way Gould looked in the rebuild and people got mad about that. I think they need more freedom on building. Though Dale Hall needs to gooooo

----------


## Pete



----------


## HillcountrySooner

very nice. I love your drone shots of OU projects.

----------


## Pete

Here are a few I took earlier this week.

Note in the 3rd one that someone has finally figured out the area north of Campus Corner is perfect for in-fill housing, with a whole score of small scale projects.

----------


## BG918

Great shots, love seeing that new infill between Campus Corner and downtown.  Lots of room for even more density west of Asp.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Here are a few I took earlier this week.
> 
> Note in the 3rd one that someone has finally figured out the area north of Campus Corner is perfect for in-fill housing, with a whole score of small scale projects.


Yeah I had always wondered why it was taking so long to happen. Even ten years ago it seemed like a no brainer.

----------


## catch22

I am never in Norman. My (small) social circle just isn't in that part of town, but went to a show the other night at Opolis. I think Norman is OKC's biggest secret. The vibe I got was very cool. I am glad to see OU continue to expand, and Norman will follow along.

----------


## ChargerAg

> Here are a few I took earlier this week.


Ended up walked this neighborhood this weekend and took these ground shots.    the new development is really striking.    

high 1.jpg


I thought this view was really interesting.    You can see on the left on of the original houses.    in the middle is a rebuilt house only bigger.   all the way on the right is the new three story construction.   It really gives an odd feel to the neighborhood.    

high 2.jpg

----------


## Pete

Cross Village:

----------


## BG918

I like the newer buildings along Lindsey better than Cross Village but overall it's a nice project, and 10x better than what was there before.  Now OU just needs to overhaul the Huffman Center in between all of these nice new residential villages.

----------


## Pete

Cross Village:

----------


## OUman

What's the driving force behind all of these projects? Is it to accomodate increasing numbers of students or is there more to it than that? I'm not talking about the athletic dorms, that's pretty self-explanatory, but all of the other buildings.

----------


## Rover

There aren’t true athletic dorms any more...has to be more than 50% regular students. 

The academic colleges/dorms just built on Lindsey are different concepts integrating academic and living more closely.  And the new Cross replaces the old Cross, doesn’t it.  OU definitely needed better on campus options...the old dorms not consistent with new student expectations.

----------


## dankrutka

I'll just say that the new dorms -- from the "athletic dorms" to the academic dorms to the new Cross students dorms -- are all really beautiful and should improve the campus experience for students. Almost everything OU has built recently has been well designed and executed. The new construction represents a short and long term investment in the quality of experience for the OU community. I can't speak to any financial issues, but under Boren's presidency OU transformed into one of the more beautiful campuses in the country... And I visit a ton of college campuses.

----------


## mugofbeer

prior to the construction of the new dorms, I don't think any general student population dorms had been built for a good 50 years.  The Huffman Center is coming on 40 years before long.  Many schools go beyond traditional dorms, as many kf us know them and build small apartments.   A&M has a luxury apartment project going up o. a prime spot on the main campus.

----------


## dankrutka

I was recently at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis and they were putting up high-rise luxury student apartments next to campus. I am sure there are some contexts where space is at a premium and high rise student apartments might make some sense, but it would rub me the wrong way if freshmen students were able to choose a high rise at a higher price because it would segregate students at a public university based on income. There's something really cool about everyone living in the dorms, eating in the same areas, etc. But as long as student live together their freshman year then I am not worried about what happens after that and maybe that's who would be targeted by "luxury" dorms.

----------


## bombermwc

Well if its not the university doing in, im not sure how you could stop that from happening anywhere. Private developers could come in and do that here. I would argue that it has been done several times near the Norman campus already, just on a smaller scale.

----------


## Geographer

I wish my room in Walker Tower (now ten years ago  :Eek: ) was as nice as I am sure these new buildings are!

----------


## Rover

I moved into Walker in early 70s. It was new but always basic compared to new student living. Kids now want the amenities they grew up with. No way would they live in some of the dorms we had, like the old navy barracks where Huffman is now.

----------


## dankrutka

> Well if its not the university doing in, im not sure how you could stop that from happening anywhere. Private developers could come in and do that here. I would argue that it has been done several times near the Norman campus already, just on a smaller scale.


Oh, of course. Private developers can build whatever they want. I think in some cases, universities have either built or partnered in building them, which is what I have some concerns about.

----------


## onthestrip

Cross Village may be nice but they arent very good at getting the beds filled. It was in the paper a few weeks back that they are only like 1/3 full for this fall semester.

----------


## SOONER8693

> Cross Village may be nice but they arent very good at getting the beds filled. It was in the paper a few weeks back that they are only like 1/3 full for this fall semester.


Don't worry, in a year or two there will be a waiting list.

----------


## Pete

> Cross Village may be nice but they arent very good at getting the beds filled. It was in the paper a few weeks back that they are only like 1/3 full for this fall semester.


This was the same lament expressed before opening the University Colleges and by the 2nd semester they were open they were completely full.

----------


## jccouger

> I wish my room in Walker Tower (now ten years ago ) was as nice as I am sure these new buildings are!


I lived in Walker 10 years ago too! One of the last non renovated floors of all the dorm towers.

----------


## Geographer

> I lived in Walker 10 years ago too! One of the last non renovated floors of all the dorm towers.


I was on the renovated side :-)

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

Those dorms may look nice, but aren’t doing that great renting them out for the year. Yikes

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blo...-troubled-dorm

----------


## Rover

Filling student orient housing is tricky anyway.  There is a fairly small window and not like renting apartments for general occupancy. You have to give them at least one full year before you can really gauge.  

Overbuilding student housing is a problem all over the country at major universities.  Student housing was very lucrative and that nearly always leads to an overbuilding cycle.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Looks there is a lawsuit over that project: https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/hous...616fff32e.html

----------


## David

That's not really surprising, Provident got screwed over hard with that arrangement.

----------


## Pete

I deleted a bunch of political posts.

----------


## mugofbeer

> That's not really surprising, Provident got screwed over hard with that arrangement.


And you know this, how?  The lawsuit shows OU broke a verbal agreement on a very complicated financial arrangement.   Who would make a verbal agreement on a very  complicated financial arrangement?

----------


## David

> And you know this, how?  The lawsuit shows OU broke a verbal agreement on a very complicated financial arrangement.   Who would make a verbal agreement on a very  complicated financial arrangement?


It's a moral judgement of OU's actions, they clearly behaved in a dishonorable fashion even if it was completely legal.




> The bonds do not obligate the state financially in a legal sense, but some believe a default might damage the states reputation and credit.


And if this does end up damaging the state's credit that is an impact on all of us. There is a public interest in having our state entities operate fully above board in financial matters, and that includes not breaking verbal agreements.

----------


## Pete

Articles have stated that almost all of these types of arrangements have to be made with a verbal promise from the university to renew every year, because most are prohibited by their states from signing multi-year deals.

OU has done this many times before with other projects.

In this case, new leadership merely decided to say 'screw you, sue us' to this company.  Legally OU can do that but it's a direct violation of what had been agreed upon.  And it may turn out the verbal contracts are binding enough to force OU into paying this company.

----------


## Rover

If this is upheld as a contract.... a verbal one, but a contract nonetheless, it could have a chilling effect on these types of private/public endeavors all over the country.  If law prohibits the arrangements and verbal agreements like these are contracts, then that seems to be a violation to make this oral contract.  Forcing this action could have many repercussions of unintended consequences.

----------


## mugofbeer

> Articles have stated that almost all of these types of arrangements have to be made with a verbal promise from the university to renew every year, because most are prohibited by their states from signing multi-year deals.
> 
> OU has done this many times before with other projects.
> 
> In this case, new leadership merely decided to say 'screw you, sue us' to this company.  Legally OU can do that but it's a direct violation of what had been agreed upon.  And it may turn out the verbal contracts are binding enough to force OU into paying this company.


Thanks, learned something new.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

New hotel may be built:

2E95BBA9-69FB-4034-A305-8DAF5B17E0D3.jpeg




> Located on S. University Boulevard, the NOUN Hotel would feature four stories, 92 rooms, a restaurant, two bars, meeting spaces and other amenities.


- https://journalrecord.com/2020/05/06...hotel-near-ou/

*sorry for the limited details and low res pic as I have no subscription to JR.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> New hotel may be built:
> 
> 2E95BBA9-69FB-4034-A305-8DAF5B17E0D3.jpeg
> 
> 
> 
> - https://journalrecord.com/2020/05/06...hotel-near-ou/
> 
> *sorry for the limited details and low res pic as I have no subscription to JR.


$25 million. Scott Lambert is the developer. Residents in the area having a city council meeting since they are not happy to have a tall building right by their homes. 

Going to be an interesting fight.

----------


## dford2

Does anyone have any news re: the construction of the new softball stadium, I haven't heard anything in months.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Norman is just as bad if not worse than Edmond it seems with developments. Right by a major university, a dense urban campus district, almost every building proposed is fought tooth and nail. Many universities across the states have multiple mid rises. Norman is a town of 100+ thousand people in a metropolis of 1.4 million and if a 4 story building sits them wrong then perhaps they eye moving further out to the new fringes of the metro. 

This is frustrating as two recent nice proposals came out on campus corner and both them were killed. Wtf...

----------


## HangryHippo

Yeah, I'm not optimistic on that hotel at all.  The Norman NIMBYs are already out in full force.

----------


## BG918

Love that hotel proposal, I've always said there needs to be a boutique hotel in Campus Corner.

----------


## HangryHippo

> Love that hotel proposal, I've always said there needs to be a boutique hotel in Campus Corner.


I agree.

----------


## jdizzle

Wait, all I keep reading on other threads is that travel needs to be decreased, and how there may be fanless OU games. If that is the case, it seems weird for a hotel to be built right next to campus. I agree, it would be nice to have one. But I think that, at least for 2020, it will fail if it opens now. May be best served to wait til 2021.

----------


## Pete

^

OU only plays 6-7 home games per year.

I'm sure traffic would be driven by the university in general, especially since you could easily walk from this location to campus.

----------


## HangryHippo

> ^
> 
> OU only plays 6-7 home games per year.
> 
> I'm sure traffic would be driven by the university in general, especially since you could easily walk from this location to campus.


Not to mention that it would be worlds better than the 'hotel' that OU sticks guests in south of the cafeteria - Sooner Suites I think?

----------


## Pete

The proximity to Campus Corner also makes the site highly desirable.

I bet they would do fantastic business and I'm surprised it's taken this long for such a project to come along.

----------


## john60

Off the top of my head, Oklahoma State, Kansas (https://theoread.com/), and Texas A&M all have nice hotels on or near campus.  I'm sure a similar hotel would succeed at OU.

----------


## BG918

Hopefully if this gets built it will spur long-needed redevelopment of the western half of Campus Corner along University Blvd.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Hopefully if this gets built it will spur long-needed redevelopment of the western half of Campus Corner along University Blvd.


Have you not seen the two previous developments proposed in CC? Multi story residential and mixed-use, both fought tooth and nail, both canceled or in limbo. I hope this turns out different.

----------


## onthestrip

Kill a $25 million investment for a desired product close to campus because its 10 feet too tall. Those NIMBYS make so much sense...

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Kill a $25 million investment for a desired product close to campus because its 10 feet too tall. Those NIMBYS make so much sense...


It will lower property values, increase crime, and Manhattanize Norman. /sarc

----------


## mugofbeer

I agree this would be a great project for OU.  Many large universities have a nice hotel either near, or on campus.  I was on the campus at Notre Dame a couple of years ago and theirs is almost a centerpiece on the campus.  If this doesn't work, OU should try one of the vacant areas near the dorms.

----------


## mugofbeer

> It will lower property values, increase crime, and Manhattanize Norman. /sarc


Don't forget flood the already bumper-to-bumper streets with new traffic.

----------


## David

An on-campus or very close to campus hotel is a nice amenity. I've stayed at the hotel in the OSU student union a few times, and it is so convenient if you have on-campus stuff to do.

----------


## Pete

Took a long walk around campus yesterday.

Almost completely deserted and all the buildings were locked.

----------


## Dustin

Aw, what happened to the mums?

----------


## Pete

> Aw, what happened to the mums?


Believe mums are just in the fall.  These are more heat-tolerant flowers.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

During the last president there were no plants in the summer. Glad to see some now. Beautiful campus.

----------


## HangryHippo

> $25 million. Scott Lambert is the developer. Residents in the area having a city council meeting since they are not happy to have a tall building right by their homes. 
> 
> Going to be an interesting fight.


Per the Norman Transcript, this project was delayed until July 14th owing to resident backlash.

https://www.normantranscript.com/new...b353442a6.html

----------


## mugofbeer

"Six out of three members voted to postpone their vote Tuesday night"   ??  LOL

----------


## Jersey Boss

This proposed hotel is a private venture. It is not an OU project.

----------


## SoonersFan12

> Took a long walk around campus yesterday.
> 
> Almost completely deserted and all the buildings were locked.


Did you expect to see students there? Of course it is deserted since school is over and the virus going on

----------


## onthestrip

> Per the Norman Transcript, this project was delayed until July 14th owing to resident backlash.
> 
> https://www.normantranscript.com/new...b353442a6.html


On one hand I sort of hope it gets declined and the developer walks away and Norman loses a $25 million investment that meets a need for the town and OU. But on the other hand I really hope the council doesnt cave to neighbors upset over 8ft and allows the $25 million investment to happen, especially during a time when investment like this is needed. Its just 8 FEET! That wont destroy the neighborhood or town.

----------


## HangryHippo

Norman would be completely stupid to deny this development.  However, and I say this as someone that really likes Norman, it would be right on brand for them to block it or screw around so long that the developer walks.  I sincerely hope that doesn't happen.

----------


## HangryHippo

> This proposed hotel is a private venture. It is not an OU project.


Yep, but I didn't see a specific thread for this project and it had already been discussed in this thread.

----------


## ereid

If you live in Norman, please consider emailing your Councilmember and include your address. 

https://www.normanok.gov/your-government/city-council

----------


## BG918

Anyone have any other plans and renderings showing the proposed CC hotel?

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Did you expect to see students there? Of course it is deserted since school is over and the virus going on


My interpretation was Pete was only referring to the shock of seeing it so empty since that is very rare.

----------


## ereid

> Anyone have any other plans and renderings showing the proposed CC hotel?


If no one has them, I can post tomorrow when I get to the office.

----------


## shavethewhales

It sounds like they are finally doing some real fundraising to expand Fears lab. http://www.ou.edu/content/dam/CoE/CE...Lab%20Info.pdf

I spent a lot of time there as an undergrad and had several classes there. They have been talking about expanding it for years, and designing expansions for the building is often done for capstone projects. Hope they include some space for the concrete canoe team!

----------


## ereid

Slide1.JPG

----------


## ereid

Slide3.JPG

----------


## BG918

> Slide3.JPG


Thanks, is that located directly at the NW corner of University & White, where White would continue into that parking area on the south side?  That surface lot could be a future garage with retail space fronting University.  I think those big surface lots on the west side of University are a great infill opportunity.

----------


## ereid

> Thanks, is that located directly at the NW corner of University & White, where White would continue into that parking area on the south side?  That surface lot could be a future garage with retail space fronting University.  I think those big surface lots on the west side of University are a great infill opportunity.


Yes. Here is the map.
chrome-extension://gphandlahdpffmccakmbngmbjnjiiahp/https://norman.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=8584176&GUID=CDBF683E-3D62-478F-BDE5-7CF81F10E167

----------


## DKG

> Thanks, is that located directly at the NW corner of University & White, where White would continue into that parking area on the south side?  That surface lot could be a future garage with retail space fronting University.  I think those big surface lots on the west side of University are a great infill opportunity.


Selfishly, I hope it falls through because we park in the church parking lot there and I don't want to find a new spot.

----------


## HangryHippo

I love the design of this.  Thanks for the pictures, ereid.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Yep, but I didn't see a specific thread for this project and it had already been discussed in this thread.


I was not directing the comment at you. It was to clear up any misunderstanding that it was on the campus. The op should have started a CC or hotel thread.

----------


## HangryHippo

This hotel is currently being discussed by the Norman City Council.  The bitching about a 4 story hotel is pretty incredible.

During discussion about the Noun hotel, Sean Rieger and then the guy from Visit Norman both shared that Sooner Legends will be permanently closing due to the pandemic.

10:30 PM CST UPDATE - this appeared to pass on a 7-2 vote with Hall and Bierman opposed.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> This hotel is currently being discussed by the Norman City Council.  The bitching about a 4 story hotel is pretty incredible.
> 
> During discussion about the Noun hotel, Sean Rieger and then the guy from Visit Norman both shared that Sooner Legends will be permanently closing due to the pandemic.
> 
> 10:30 PM CST UPDATE - this appeared to pass on a 7-2 vote with Hall and Bierman opposed.


good news on the new hotel      terrible about sooner  legends     doug is a really good dude

----------


## HangryHippo

Yep. Very excited to see this new one open as I think the proposal looks awesome. 

Legends did announce their catering will continue out of a new location.

----------


## BG918

> good news on the new hotel      terrible about sooner  legends     doug is a really good dude


Great news for Campus Corner.  Hope they have their financing in place to make it happen.

What do you do with a closed-down Sooner Legends?  I would love to see it razed and replaced with a larger, nicer hotel but realize that is tough to accomplish right now.  It seems like a good location for one though right off the interstate and not far from OU.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

It looks like the residential hall towers are going to be replaced:




> In today's meeting of the OU Board of Regents, OU President Joseph Harroz announced the administration's plan to replace the residential hall towers located on south campus.
> 
> The towers include Adams, Couch and Walker, which are currently used as freshman dormitories.
> 
> "The towers right now were built in the '60s, the mid-'60s," Harroz said. "So what we are endeavoring to do is go on a multi-year plan to replace those."


- http://www.oudaily.com/news/ou-presi...i_8ClASfQgtQ5M

----------


## Pete

I lived in Walker Tower my freshman year; lots of fond memories.

They just spent a ton of money to renovate all those dorms, but I know times have changed and students now want a different type of living experience, more like the most recent housing they have built to the east of the towers.

I'm also sure it's a competitive thing in terms of recruiting prospective students.

----------


## HangryHippo

> I lived in Walker Tower my freshman year; lots of fond memories.
> 
> They just spent a ton of money to renovate all those dorms, but I know times have changed and students now want a different type of living experience, more like the most recent housing they have built to the east of the towers.
> 
> I'm also sure it's a competitive thing in terms of recruiting prospective students.


I believe the serious mold issues are playing into this.

----------


## DowntownMan

> I lived in Walker Tower my freshman year; lots of fond memories.
> 
> They just spent a ton of money to renovate all those dorms, but I know times have changed and students now want a different type of living experience, more like the most recent housing they have built to the east of the towers.
> 
> I'm also sure it's a competitive thing in terms of recruiting prospective students.


Renovations mainly completed in fall 2008-spring 2009. But the tornado shelters that were probably a couple million we’re just completed in the last few years

----------


## BG918

I imagine the replacement will look similar to the quad-style dorms that have been built along Lindsey.  This will also likely encompass Cate Center.  The end product will be a huge high-density residential community for OU students.  This will make the replacement of the Huffman Center a bigger priority as it will sit right in the middle of all this new housing.

----------


## shavethewhales

Walker 10th floor alumnus here. I liked the culture of the freshman quad. Always easy to meet lots of people and stuff going on in the courtyard. Nice to have everything super close. It felt like our own little city. 

I get that the rooms are cramped by todays standards, and that people don't like sharing bathrooms, but IMO freshmen do not need "apartments". Too much emphasis on luxury living when everyone is complaining about the cost of college! These buildings will last another 100 years, I wish they wouldn't just be wasted.

----------


## mugofbeer

Torn on this in it's entirety.

I lived in Walker a couple of years and enjoyed it. At the time, all rooms had 2 beds per room in the identical setup.  Some guys on the floor bunked their beds to provide some alternate space.  When an inspection found it, they were told to take down the bunks but when a housing official saw what they did, he liked it so well, they were allowed to keep the bunk setup.  

I could see taking one bed out of a lot of the rooms would to give students a choice on space. You could keep two beds in one room but turn the other bedroom into a living area.  You could keep some rooms just as they are.

By providing some choices, the school could possibly bump up the prices of renovated rooms a little but lower the 4-bed suite prices.  Cost is a huge consideration so the school needs to maintain a wide variety of choices.

How about replacing one tower to replace lost beds from renovated rooms in the other towers?

----------


## Pete

^

As part of a recent renovation, all the furniture is modular and most students stack the beds.

Also, in the new residential colleges to the east, the bathrooms are still shared; they are not set up like apartments.

----------


## mugofbeer

> ^
> 
> As part of a recent renovation, all the furniture is modular and most students stack the beds.
> 
> Also, in the new residential colleges to the east, the bathrooms are still shared; they are not set up like apartments.


My point was, there are options vs. going $150 million or more in debt.  Try replacing one tower first and renovating others.  The towers are fine except for room space which can be accomplished through opening some walls and making single rooms.

Edit: _Some_ students bunk beds.  My child looked at the fact bunked beds have such little room between the top bunk and the ceiling, it was claustrophobic. When l visited, many were not bunked.

----------


## Pete

They have not said they are going to demolish and rebuild the towers all at once.

I'm very sure they won't do that because they can't possibly give up all that dorm space at once, as enrollment remains near record highs.

And I said 'most' students bunk their beds in the towers, not all.

----------


## DowntownMan

I would expect the Cate center to be demolished and replaced with something mirroring Durham. 
Then they probably will take out a tower at a time and clone the Durham again on the lots covered by current towers. In the end I expect kinda a village of lower 4-5 story residential halls

----------


## Pete

^

There was a proposal years ago (by Boren I think) to replace Cate with residential colleges similar to Dunham and Headington.

The Cate complex is actually on more land than Walker and Adams combined, so it would make sense.

----------


## BG918

> ^
> 
> There was a proposal years ago (by Boren I think) to replace Cate with residential colleges similar to Dunham and Headington.
> 
> The Cate complex is actually on more land than Walker and Adams combined, so it would make sense.


From what I’ve heard that is the plan so they can gradually demolish the towers and move students into the new residential buildings.  

One thing I hope OU can do is integrate more mixed-use into these residential halls.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> I would expect the Cate center to be demolished and replaced with something mirroring Durham. 
> Then they probably will take out a tower at a time and clone the Durham again on the lots covered by current towers. In the end I expect kinda a village of lower 4-5 story residential halls


Cate has all actually been redone and houses offices for certain programs across OU. I believe only one of the four is for dorms anymore.

----------


## Pete

^

The new dorms also have university offices and even some classrooms.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

New on campus living will be a good thing. The dorms are pretty dated. I think students want somewhere better to live. The real question will be the cost per month. Excited to see new living at OU. I think the new Headington style dorms are amazing. It makes the university look 10 times better than the old towers.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

Adams Tower will be starting demolition this Summer.

Cross Village is now owned by OU (with help from the Chickasaw Nation) and will be student living in the Fall for freshman.

RIP Adams Tower. Lots of memories from when I was a in school.

----------


## KayneMo

Oh wow. I lived at Adams Center (Tarman Tower, 10th floor) my first year at OU, Fall 2010 - Spring 2011.

----------


## Pete

Turns out that negotiating with the company that built the new Cross Center turned out to be a better plan than slamming them in the press and threatening to sue them, which was Gallogly's ham-fisted, bombastic approach.

I still can't believe the way he was brought in and allowed to run the university.

Thank goodness he's gone and Harroz seems like a super sharp guy who truly loves the university.

----------


## MikeLucky

> Oh wow. I lived at Adams Center (Tarman Tower, 10th floor) my first year at OU......


First thought, oh I might know him....




> Fall 2010 - Spring 2011.


20 years too late.... lol




> Turns out that negotiating with the company that built the new Cross Center turned out to be a better plan than slamming them in the press and threatening to sue them, which was Gallogly's ham-fisted, bombastic approach.
> 
> I still can't believe the way he was brought in and allowed to run the university.
> 
> Thank goodness he's gone and Harroz seems like a super sharp guy who truly loves the university.


Agreed.  I personally believe Gallogly was brought in to hatchet some costs and go after Boren.  That might be my tin foil hat talking, but I'm just sayin....  Unfortunately I think it cost us some really good people at OU.

----------


## BG918

> Agreed.  I personally believe Gallogly was brought in to hatchet some costs and go after Boren.  That might be my tin foil hat talking, but I'm just sayin....  Unfortunately I think it cost us some really good people at OU.


Like the 1995 season with Howard Schnellenburger I usually just try to forget that the Gallogly experiment even existed

----------


## MikeLucky

> Like the 1995 season with Howard Schnellenburger I usually just try to forget that the Gallogly experiment even existed


Pretty good comparison.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

I’m not sure if this will result in a new building built but its pretty impressive:

“ OU awarded $208M for severe weather research institute”

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/ou...8b7fcbf67.html

https://okcfox.com/news/local/ou-bec...ther-institute

----------


## SEMIweather

Still would love to see a world-class meteorology museum across the street from the National Weather Center one day. This would further cement Norman as the meteorology hub of the U.S. ahead of State College and Atlanta, IMO.

----------


## lady_o

> Still would love to see a world-class meteorology museum across the street from the National Weather Center one day. This would further cement Norman as the meteorology hub of the U.S. ahead of State College and Atlanta, IMO.


That would be really cool

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Good news for OU 

https://okcfox.com/news/local/ou-cla...evious-records

----------


## dcsooner

Allot of great things being done at OU, but I’m hoping President Harroz can fulfill his strategic plan and elevate the States flagship university to AAU standing and improve its USNWR ranking.

----------


## chssooner

> Allot of great things being done at OU, but I’m hoping President Harroz can fulfill his strategic plan and elevate the States flagship university to AAU standing and improve its USNWR ranking.


Will be almost impossible if they don't get an exemption for the medical school being in a different city or county. And those are very rare.

----------


## dcsooner

> Will be almost impossible if they don't get an exemption for the medical school being in a different city or county. And those are very rare.


Thanks for the information. I did not know that was a prerequisite.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Thanks for the information. I did not know that was a prerequisite.


i believe that is the primary reason that Nebraska lost AAU status, the research done at its med school no longer counted toward its stats ..

----------


## chssooner

> Thanks for the information. I did not know that was a prerequisite.


Was not meaning to sound rude, I promise. 

I think the rule is really dumb. And I see no logical reason why OU should move their med school. I would hope the AAU would modernize their archaic rules.

----------


## BG918

> Was not meaning to sound rude, I promise. 
> 
> I think the rule is really dumb. And I see no logical reason why OU should move their med school. I would hope the AAU would modernize their archaic rules.


Seems like they could do some research and offer classes in Norman if this was really a sticking point.  Maybe OU Health can take over Norman Regionals hospital on Porter

----------


## chssooner

> Seems like they could do some research and offer classes in Norman if this was really a sticking point.  Maybe OU Health can take over Norman Regional’s hospital on Porter


Why just throw away billions you have dedicated at OU HSC? I mean, OU is not swimming in funds right now, thanks to the state's crappy funding. Just throwing away what you have near Downtown isn't smart, in my opinion. The AAU is the entity that needs to change their stupid, archaic rules.

----------


## BG918

> Why just throw away billions you have dedicated at OU HSC? I mean, OU is not swimming in funds right now, thanks to the state's crappy funding. Just throwing away what you have near Downtown isn't smart, in my opinion. The AAU is the entity that needs to change their stupid, archaic rules.


How is CU-Boulder an AAU member if its medical school and HSC is in Aurora?

----------


## Jake

The AAU voted Nebraska out because agricultural research is “not considered as highly."  That tells you all you need to know.

----------


## Pete

Just FYI, but 12 AAU member schools don't even have a medical school.

And one of the primary reasons Nebraska was dropped was due to the large amount of agricultural research which is not valued by the AAU standards.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> How is CU-Boulder an AAU member if its medical school and HSC is in Aurora?


they likely have enough research funding with out counting the med school

----------


## BoulderSooner

https://www.columbiamissourian.com/n...2c0e2e5e6.html





> MARY RYAN
> The AAU dumped Nebraska essentially for two reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> First, the University of Nebraskas medical school is at its Omaha campus, not the flagship campus in Lincoln. So, any federal research dollar, premier faculty member and publication in a prestigious journal from the medical school couldnt be counted toward Nebraskas AAU status.
> 
> Second, the university focuses heavily on agriculture research, a priority for a land grant institution. But in the eyes of the AAU, most agricultural research is not peer-reviewed, competitive research, so it is not considered as highly, AAU spokesman Barry Toiv said, compared with medical and economic research.

----------


## David

That sounds like an AAU problem, not a Nebraska problem. Agriculture research is hardly some trivial thing that doesn't matter in the big picture.

----------


## Pete

> they likely have enough research funding with out counting the med school


Right, this is the issue.

If the university on its own has tons of research funding, they don't need to rely on the medical school.

As for OU, the medical school is in the same metro area and only 20 miles from the main campus.  The distance at Nebraska is 60 miles.

----------


## chssooner

> Just FYI, but 12 AAU member schools don't even have a medical school.
> 
> And one of the primary reasons Nebraska was dropped was due to the large amount of agricultural research which is not valued by the AAU standards.


I would guess weather and energy-related research (specifically O&G research) might count negatively for OU. If agricultural research counts against Nebraska, then those might count against OU, since they aren't prestigious enough fields.

----------


## Martin

> As for OU, the medical school is in the same metro area and only 20 miles from the main campus.  The distance at Nebraska is 60 miles.


it was pointed out to me via pm that part of the issue with nebraska was that their medical school is under a different organization than their main campus.

----------


## Pete

> I would guess weather and energy-related research (specifically O&G research) might count negatively for OU. If agricultural research counts against Nebraska, then those might count against OU, since they aren't prestigious enough fields.


You have absolutely no way of knowing that weather and oil & gas research would somehow be discounted.

Neither is remotely similar to agriculture.

----------


## BG918

> You have absolutely no way of knowing that weather and oil & gas research would somehow be discounted.
> 
> Neither is remotely similar to agriculture.


I would say weather, energy and agriculture are some of the most important things to research and are integral to the advancement of mankind.  But maybe not in the eyes of the "elite".

----------


## chssooner

> You have absolutely no way of knowing that weather and oil & gas research would somehow be discounted.
> 
> Neither is remotely similar to agriculture.


Well, the AAU seems very uppity. I mean, you could argue weather research is less competitive than agriculture, since there are far fewer top-level weather schools in the country. 

And the educational elite are mostly liberal, and we know how they view O&G (as a hopefully dying form of energy).

Just reading between the lines. Not making anything as fact, just giving my opinion.

----------


## Rover

> Well, the AAU seems very uppity. I mean, you could argue weather research is less competitive than agriculture, since there are far fewer top-level weather schools in the country. 
> 
> And the educational elite are mostly liberal, and we know how they view O&G (as a hopefully dying form of energy).
> 
> Just reading between the lines. Not making anything as fact, just giving my opinion.


This is a hilarious viewpoint.  There is a huge contingent of ELITE who are O&G wealthy.  Don't confuse elitism with the product that made them rich.    And, being eco friendly isn't necessarily liberalism.  I know plenty of conservatives who are very sensitive to the environment.  Any farmer who doesn't want to protect the land that makes them a living shouldn't be farming.  

I'm not sure what "educational elite" means.  Wanting the population to be educated, aware, and able to think for themselves isn't liberal or conservative.  What conclusions those that can think and conclude for themselves indicates their own sense of which ideology is consistent with their knowledge and beliefs.  Parents and society have about 18-20 years to prepare their children... four years in college doesn't change their upbringing.  If parents can't defend against additional thoughts and information then their training wasn't good, their thoughts weren't that strong, or both.

As for O&G dying  .... well it won't die, but it sure will be diminished by progressive and prosperous nations.  There were lots of people who didn't want cars to interfere with horses either.  Most can't be stuck in the past forever, but some can.

----------


## Rover

> I would say weather, energy and agriculture are some of the most important things to research and are integral to the advancement of mankind.  But maybe not in the eyes of the "elite".


Please define "elite".  

There are huge sums beings spent on climate research, so I would say that the educated and informed are highly aware of the need to understand the climate and weather.  Weather isn't just about a TV 5 minute report in the evening.  It is much more sophisticated.  

I am curious as to why you think O&G research is discounted.  What facts do you use to support this accusation?

----------


## Rover

> I would guess weather and energy-related research (specifically O&G research) might count negatively for OU. If agricultural research counts against Nebraska, then those might count against OU, since they aren't prestigious enough fields.


It wasn't about how important agriculture is, it was about the lack of peer review of studies.  There are valid methodologies for proper scientific research and peer review is a big part of that.  If others cannot substantiate or replicate your research, the validity is in question.  Don't confuse the subject matter with the objective process.

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## dankrutka

> Thanks for the information. I did not know that was a prerequisite.


Again (I'll post this over and over again), these rankings about elitist prestige and appearance and have less to do with educational quality. Honestly, they represent one of the biggest problems in both K-12 and higher education: using flawed metrics to make educational decisions.




> It wasn't about how important agriculture is, it was about the lack of peer review of studies.  There are valid methodologies for proper scientific research and peer review is a big part of that.  If others cannot substantiate or replicate your research, the validity is in question.  Don't confuse the subject matter with the objective process.


What you're describing is only true for some research studies. I have published over 50 peer reviewed academic articles and only a small number of them are replicable for varying reasons such as sample size, anonymity, etc. There are many different research methodologies needed for different data sets or contexts. Many qualitative researchers do not use "validity" anymore, but instead use concepts like "trustworthiness."  Much of qualitative research involves identifying meaning from deep contexts. For example, I often use "emergent coding" methods that are not replicable and, in fact, can produce different results with different research teams. But, the findings are still as worthwhile to the field of research. There are differences across different disciplines. Journal metrics like impact factor, not methodologies, tend to be the way that academic scholarship is built into any of these formulas. Now, I don't agree with those metrics either, but that's for another day.

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## dankrutka

> Well, the AAU seems very uppity. I mean, you could argue weather research is less competitive than agriculture, since there are far fewer top-level weather schools in the country. 
> 
> And the educational elite are mostly liberal, and we know how they view O&G (as a hopefully dying form of energy).
> 
> Just reading between the lines. Not making anything as fact, just giving my opinion.


I agree that these systems are elitist, but you're reasoning is off. This isn't some traditional liberal/conservative divide. The arbitrary criteria for these systems are designed to indicate prestige more than educational and scholarly quality in my opinion.

----------


## KHutch66

> As for OU, the medical school is in the same metro area and only 20 miles from the main campus.  The distance at Nebraska is 60 miles.


As a University of Nebraska student from Norman, I can back this up completely. Traveling from Lincoln to Omaha feels like it takes forever, leading to my friends and I hardly ever traveling to Omaha.

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## Johnb911

Interesting, I had never thought much about the rankings other than to take them as fact till I read some Malcolm Gladwell recently

https://malcolmgladwell.bulletin.com/902401096977837

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## GoGators

> Right, this is the issue.
> 
> If the university on its own has tons of research funding, they don't need to rely on the medical school.
> 
> As for OU, the medical school is in the same metro area and only 20 miles from the main campus.  The distance at Nebraska is 60 miles.


The location of the University of Tennessee's medical school is wild. Its 400 miles away from the main campus in Memphis. Makes OUHS seem like an easy walk to the Norman campus by comparison.

----------


## BG918

> Right, this is the issue.
> 
> If the university on its own has tons of research funding, they don't need to rely on the medical school.
> 
> As for OU, the medical school is in the same metro area and only 20 miles from the main campus.  The distance at Nebraska is 60 miles.


It sounds like a good opportunity for OU to increase its overall research funding on the Norman campus.  Lots of available land in the research park.  Someday they will redevelop the acreage where LNC sits as well.  Hoping to see more of a mixed-use neighborhood built on that land.  That combined with the existing research park across Jenkins could be a huge economic driver.

----------


## chssooner

> The location of the University of Tennessee's medical school is wild. Its 400 miles away from the main campus in Memphis. Makes OUHS seem like an easy walk to the Norman campus by comparison.


And UT isn't an AAU school. Yet somehow, KU is, with their medical school in Kansas City.

I do know that OU has vastly increased their meteorological research, and engineering research (energy and non-energy). Not sure what the threshold is, or other criteria.

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## dankrutka

> Interesting, I had never thought much about the rankings other than to take them as fact till I read some Malcolm Gladwell recently
> 
> https://malcolmgladwell.bulletin.com/902401096977837


I wish everyone would read this. Academic rankings are a total joke. I actually run a top 10 master’s program according to U.S. News & World Report. Our program has completely transformed in the last 5 years. We’ve changed everything about the educational experience. There is not a single variable in their formulas that capture any of it. The rankings don’t include any educational criteria in their rankings. It’s a comedy of the absurd that we still reference them at all.

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## Pete

> I wish everyone would read this. Academic rankings are a total joke. I actually run a top 10 master’s program according to U.S. News & World Report. Our program has completely transformed in the last 5 years. We’ve changed everything about the educational experience. There is not a single variable in their formulas that capture any of it. The rankings don’t include any educational criteria in their rankings. It’s a comedy of the absurd that we still reference them at all.


Tell that to President Harroz; he has an entirely different opinion and view.

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## dankrutka

> Tell that to President Harroz; he has an entirely different opinion and view.


What's the argument for the criteria? These dubious rankings have real world effects. I am sure Harroz is just playing the game. That's why OU fudged their donations numbers to move up in previous rankings. I highly doubt he believes the U.S. News & World Report has quality criteria. He just knows people blindly use these rankings to make real world decisions. The whole thing is embarrassing and an indictment on our higher education system. Just as Malcom Gladwell pointed out, these rankings incentivize universities, including the most wealthy ones, to reject more students and educate fewer students. The rankings have no criteria that even attempt to assess educational quality.

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## Pete

> What's the argument for the criteria? These dubious rankings have real world effects. I am sure Harroz is just playing the game. That's why OU fudged their donations numbers to move up in previous rankings. I highly doubt he believes the U.S. News & World Report has quality criteria. He just knows people blindly use these rankings to make real world decisions. The whole thing is embarrassing and an indictment on our higher education system. Just as Malcom Gladwell pointed out, these rankings incentivize universities, including the most wealthy ones, to reject more students and educate fewer students. The rankings have no criteria that even attempt to assess educational quality.


You can argue all day long that the criteria and numbers are not completely accurate, but you can't argue the ratings and accreditations don't matter.

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## Rover

> I wish everyone would read this. Academic rankings are a total joke. I actually run a top 10 masters program according to U.S. News & World Report. Our program has completely transformed in the last 5 years. Weve changed everything about the educational experience. There is not a single variable in their formulas that capture any of it. The rankings dont include any educational criteria in their rankings. Its a comedy of the absurd that we still reference them at all.


And yet you humble brag about your RANKINGS.    Or, are you saying your department isn't all that good?

----------


## Rover

> I wish everyone would read this. Academic rankings are a total joke. I actually run a top 10 masters program according to U.S. News & World Report. Our program has completely transformed in the last 5 years. Weve changed everything about the educational experience. There is not a single variable in their formulas that capture any of it. The rankings dont include any educational criteria in their rankings. Its a comedy of the absurd that we still reference them at all.


What program and where?

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## chssooner

> And yet you humble brag about your RANKINGS.    Or, are you saying your department isn't all that good?


He's saying he knows what goes into the criteria, and while his school does well in those data points, the data points don't actually take into account any education data points. 

He mentioned being top 10 to add ethos to this experience. Nothing wrong with that.

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## dankrutka

> And yet you humble brag about your RANKINGS.    Or, are you saying your department isn't all that good?


I did not humblebrag at all. I pointed out that the ratings having nothing do with educational quality. That doesnt mean our program is bad. It means that these rankings are just unrelated to the quality of our education. You might re-read my post.

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## dankrutka

> What program and where?


I am one of the facilitators in our online M.Ed. program at the University of North Texas… you can find our program tied with the University of Virginia for the 10th best online master’s: https://www.usnews.com/education/onl...ction-rankings

However, looking at this now, the specific program I run is ranked #13: https://www.usnews.com/education/onl...ction-rankings

I am proud of our program, but this ranking doesn’t reflect any of the work we’ve put into it at all.

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## Pete

I matriculated at OU in 1978, the dawn of the Banowski era.

He raised a ton of money and there were loads of construction projects all over campus, something that continued on for decades.

When I was down there last Saturday, I realized it was probably the only time in over 40 years where there is not a significant construction project on campus.  Not a one.

I know there are plans to raze and replace the dorm towers and some other things, but as far as I know, there isn't a single construction project right now unless you count the endless rebuilding of fraternity and sorority houses which aren't officially on the campus.

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## mugofbeer

Looking at the Energy Center building, l think it still looks like it could be a brand new building.

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## BG918

> I matriculated at OU in 1978, the dawn of the Banowski era.
> 
> He raised a ton of money and there were loads of construction projects all over campus, something that continued on for decades.
> 
> When I was down there last Saturday, I realized it was probably the only time in over 40 years where there is not a significant construction project on campus.  Not a one.
> 
> I know there are plans to raze and replace the dorm towers and some other things, but as far as I know, there isn't a single construction project right now unless you count the endless rebuilding of fraternity and sorority houses which aren't officially on the campus.


A few projects that I have heard are on the horizon:
1. Replacement of the dorm towers with housing similar to the residential halls - this will be a multi-year project 
2. Replacement of Cate Center with residential halls - after the dorm towers are replaced
3. West side stadium press box/club level/suite renovation and expansion 
4. Replacement of GL Cross with a new life sciences building 
5. New parking garage and major renovations at Dale Hall

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## HangryHippo

GL Cross needed to be replaced 20 years ago.  I can only imagine it now.  And I've heard the same about Cate, but that's probably last on the last since it's being used for so much departmental office space now.

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## Plutonic Panda

> A few projects that I have heard are on the horizon:
> 1. Replacement of the dorm towers with housing similar to the residential halls - this will be a multi-year project 
> 2. Replacement of Cate Center with residential halls - after the dorm towers are replaced
> 3. West side stadium press box/club level/suite renovation and expansion 
> 4. Replacement of GL Cross with a new life sciences building 
> 5. New parking garage and major renovations at Dale Hall


Any timeline on these?

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## Pete

^

I don't think they have funding in place for any of it, although the dorms probably could be done by revenue bonds.


Another one on the list is the new softball stadium and a major redo for the baseball stadium.  And they still have to do something with Lloyd Noble.

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## BoulderSooner

> 2. Replacement of Cate Center with residential halls - after the dorm towers are replaced
> 4. Replacement of GL Cross with a new life sciences building 
> 5. New parking garage and major renovations at Dale Hall


these 3 are not currently on the long term capital Master Plan

the tower replacement will start with Adams in the next 4 years .. 

the West football deck will be a ways out .. 

the softball stadium should break ground within the next year 

the baseball improvements should also start within the next year .. 

basketball ???????  big big question ..

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## BG918

> these 3 are not currently on the long term capital Master Plan
> 
> the tower replacement will start with Adams in the next 4 years .. 
> 
> the West football deck will be a ways out .. 
> 
> the softball stadium should break ground within the next year 
> 
> the baseball improvements should also start within the next year .. 
> ...


Correct but they are on the list of buildings that need major upgrades and/or replacements from OU A&E.  A new life sciences complex to replace GL Cross and an updated Dale Hall (possibly a replacement building with major interior/exterior renovations to Dale Hall Tower) plus a new parking structure on Elm would be the last major capital projects for awhile on the South Oval.  That combined with the new student housing neighborhood planned for south of Lindsey will really transform that whole part of campus.

I still think they need to look at what UT did with the Moody Arena and move basketball back to campus on the Duck Pond lots with the entrance facing the quadrangle at Brooks & Jenkins.

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## chssooner

> Correct but they are on the list of buildings that need major upgrades and/or replacements from OU A&E.  A new life sciences complex to replace GL Cross and an updated Dale Hall (possibly a replacement building with major interior/exterior renovations to Dale Hall Tower) plus a new parking structure on Elm would be the last major capital projects for awhile on the South Oval.  That combined with the new student housing neighborhood planned for south of Lindsey will really transform that whole part of campus.
> 
> I still think they need to look at what UT did with the Moody Arena and move basketball back to campus on the Duck Pond lots with the entrance facing the quadrangle at Brooks & Jenkins.


Can't really compare OU and UT. UT is Goliath, and likely one of the 5 largest public schools in the country, and can print money (hence why buying out coaches is nothing for them). OU is not. So they have to be way more selective with with capital projects.

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## BoulderSooner

> Correct but they are on the list of buildings that need major upgrades and/or replacements from OU A&E.  A new life sciences complex to replace GL Cross and an updated Dale Hall (possibly a replacement building with major interior/exterior renovations to Dale Hall Tower) plus a new parking structure on Elm would be the last major capital projects for awhile on the South Oval.  That combined with the new student housing neighborhood planned for south of Lindsey will really transform that whole part of campus.
> 
> I still think they need to look at what UT did with the Moody Arena and move basketball back to campus on the Duck Pond lots with the entrance facing the quadrangle at Brooks & Jenkins.


basketball is currently on campus

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## HangryHippo

> basketball is currently on campus


Doesnt feel like it.

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## dankrutka

> Doesn’t feel like it.


It really doesn't. The problem is that OU has invested a lot in the practice facilities attached to Lloyd Noble. I've pitched it before, but what if OU developed the exterior of the giant parking lot surrounding Lloyd Noble with mixed use student housing, hotel, entertainment, etc? In short, turn this area into a dense, walkable southern extension of campus that also serves the research part to the east (which could be made more dense, walkable over time too). Run 15 or 30 minute shuttles from here to the heart of campus.

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## FighttheGoodFight

> It really doesn't. The problem is that OU has invested a lot in the practice facilities attached to Lloyd Noble. I've pitched it before, but what if OU developed the exterior of the giant parking lot surrounding Lloyd Noble with mixed use student housing, hotel, entertainment, etc? In short, turn this area into a dense, walkable southern extension of campus that also serves the research part to the east (which could be made more dense, walkable over time too). Run 15 or 30 minute shuttles from here to the heart of campus.


You would have to pry that free parking from the students hands!  :Wink:

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## BG918

> It really doesn't. The problem is that OU has invested a lot in the practice facilities attached to Lloyd Noble. I've pitched it before, but what if OU developed the exterior of the giant parking lot surrounding Lloyd Noble with mixed use student housing, hotel, entertainment, etc? In short, turn this area into a dense, walkable southern extension of campus that also serves the research part to the east (which could be made more dense, walkable over time too). Run 15 or 30 minute shuttles from here to the heart of campus.


I like the idea of turning that whole area into a mixed-use neighborhood but without LNC.  Tear it all down and build out the whole property like what they are doing at Wheeler Park with mostly residential but also some things like a brewery and restaurant mixed-in.  You could also tie it into more research park development across Jenkins.  This is Oklahoma’s version of Research Triangle Park.  

Then for the basketball arena build a smaller venue on campus with the practice facilities and maybe even a conference center/hotel on Jenkins between Brooks and Lindsey.  Perfect spot with surface parking to the east and existing garage parking at the stadium to the west.  Students can easily walk from all of the new housing OU has and will build along Lindsey and fans can eat/drink at Campus Corner before/after games.  Once Norman has commuter rail there could even be a stop right next to it at Brooks.

----------


## SoonerDave

> ^
> 
> I don't think they have funding in place for any of it, although the dorms probably could be done by revenue bonds.
> 
> 
> Another one on the list is the new softball stadium and a major redo for the baseball stadium.  And they still have to do something with Lloyd Noble.


Pete, I was talking to a friend who has some indirect connections to OU and claimed some big announcement was coming tomorrow., but wasn't clear exactly what.  You hear of any rumblings in that vein? Possibly a formal softball stadium announcement? 

They've had some pretty conspicuous donations to the athletic department in the last few months, so I'm making a jump in inferring the announcement is athletic-related. I suppose it could also include some stadium master plan updates for the west deck, but that's such an expensive project, I figure that's still years down the road....

Just wondering if you'd heard anything...

----------


## dankrutka

> I like the idea of turning that whole area into a mixed-use neighborhood but without LNC.  Tear it all down and build out the whole property like what they are doing at Wheeler Park with mostly residential but also some things like a brewery and restaurant mixed-in.  You could also tie it into more research park development across Jenkins.  This is Oklahoma’s version of Research Triangle Park.  
> 
> Then for the basketball arena build a smaller venue on campus with the practice facilities and maybe even a conference center/hotel on Jenkins between Brooks and Lindsey.  Perfect spot with surface parking to the east and existing garage parking at the stadium to the west.  Students can easily walk from all of the new housing OU has and will build along Lindsey and fans can eat/drink at Campus Corner before/after games.  Once Norman has commuter rail there could even be a stop right next to it at Brooks.


Yes, I like this plan, but it means tearing down brand new, multimillion dollar facilities. I just don’t see that happening. Maybe they could keep the practice gym/training facility and tear down the arena?

----------


## BG918

> Yes, I like this plan, but it means tearing down brand new, multimillion dollar facilities. I just don’t see that happening. Maybe they could keep the practice gym/training facility and tear down the arena?


Maybe repurpose into a rec center or school in the middle of the neighborhood

----------


## PhiAlpha

> I like the idea of turning that whole area into a mixed-use neighborhood but without LNC.  Tear it all down and build out the whole property like what they are doing at Wheeler Park with mostly residential but also some things like a brewery and restaurant mixed-in.  You could also tie it into more research park development across Jenkins.  This is Oklahoma’s version of Research Triangle Park.  
> 
> Then for the basketball arena build a smaller venue on campus with the practice facilities and maybe even a conference center/hotel on Jenkins between Brooks and Lindsey.  Perfect spot with surface parking to the east and existing garage parking at the stadium to the west.  Students can easily walk from all of the new housing OU has and will build along Lindsey and fans can eat/drink at Campus Corner before/after games.  Once Norman has commuter rail there could even be a stop right next to it at Brooks.


There is a great piece of university owned land south of the Duck Pond (Lindsey) where those old apartments used to be that would be great for a new arena. 

Agree on the LNC though. That place has to be one of the most uninspiring venues in college basketball. Make it walkable from the main housing areas on campus and it should really help student attendance.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> There is a great piece of university owned land south of the Duck Pond (Lindsey) where those old apartments used to be that would be great for a new arena. 
> 
> Agree on the LNC though. That place has to be one of the most uninspiring venues in college basketball. Make it walkable from the main housing areas on campus and it should really help student attendance.


that would be an interesting location .. but man traffic would be terrible .. and it still would not be walk able from any bar/restaurants .... 

i do know that there are some still working behind the scenes on the legacy park stadium project ..

----------


## HangryHippo

If Phi's idea (or something similar) won't happen, the UNP site is the second best option IMO.  At least it'd be more convenient.

----------


## BoulderSooner

there is a rumor that chris plank might have an announcement on the softball stadium project at 10am today on his radio show ..

----------


## Rover

> there is a rumor that chris plank might have an announcement on the softball stadium project at 10am today on his radio show ..


A few days ago I heard Patti Gasso imply something really good was about to be announced, so this would make sense. Sure hope this is done and done quickly.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> there is a rumor that chris plank might have an announcement on the softball stadium project at 10am today on his radio show ..


announcement came one day late .. 

https://twitter.com/OU_Softball/stat...1_c10&ref_url=

Loves giving 9 mil (and matching up to another 3 mil )   toward the Softball stadium ...     this should let them break ground in 2022 ..

https://soonersports.com/news/2021/1...l-stadium.aspx




> NORMAN – Love's Travel Stops, the nation's leading travel stop network, has provided the lead and naming gift for the University of Oklahoma's new softball stadium. OU Vice President and Athletics Director Joe Castiglione made the announcement today. The new facility will be called Love's Field.
> 
> The company has pledged $9 million toward the project and also extended a challenge to other donors. It will match every other donation dollar for dollar up to an additional $3 million dollars as part of project fundraising. Once fulfilled, the match will result in a total gift of $12 million from Love's, which is the largest philanthropic gift directed toward a female specific sport program in OU Athletics history.





> Groundbreaking will likely occur in 2022. It is expected that the stadium will open for the 2024 season.

----------


## BG918

Nice, this will be a great addition to the NW corner of Imhoff and Jenkins.  What happens to the old stadium?

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Nice, this will be a great addition to the NW corner of Imhoff and Jenkins.  What happens to the old stadium?


i would guess it gets demoed??  it will be interesting ..  it is a pretty nice facility

----------


## Plutonic Panda

KFOR article: https://kfor.com/sports/loves-field-...homa-softball/

----------


## mugofbeer

> KFOR article: https://kfor.com/sports/loves-field-...homa-softball/


Love's Field, LOL!  

I wonder if they could get Southwest Airlines to be a big sponsor?

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

Looks like OU is 48th best large employer https://www.forbes.com/lists/best-la...h=7d35522a7b66

----------


## Rover

> Looks like OU is 48th best large employer https://www.forbes.com/lists/best-la...h=7d35522a7b66


That is great positioning for OU.  Only Yale and Michigan also made the list, except for a few university affiliated medical centers.  

Hopefully this helps them continue to recruit great faculty and support.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

It’d be nice if one of Oklahomas universities developed a really good transportation planning program. They could use this as a start: https://www.transportation.gov/brief...illion-fund-35

----------


## Pete

They have started to demolish the existing Bud Wilkinson building and related facilities just east of the stadium.

Does anybody have renderings of the new facility?




> The regents meeting agenda detailed a review of the Northeast corner of Lindsey Street and Jenkins Avenue where the Wilkinson House is located, with the possibility of a relocation of the Student Athlete Academic Service to the area.  
> 
> Collaborative learning areas, administrative office space, Varsity O-Club facilities and multipurpose space are also possible futures for the Wilkinson House area, according to the agenda. Retooling the space is estimated to cost $75 million with funding from private and athletics department sources.

----------


## Pete

Demolition of Bud House:

----------


## Pete

Recent photos of campus:

----------


## MagzOK

I really wish they would expand the Field House for modern basketball.

----------


## BG918

> I really wish they would expand the Field House for modern basketball.


Too costly and not enough space for an adjacent practice facility.  The Duck Pond lot is a better location for a 10k seat arena/practice facility.  There is room for surface parking on the east side which would still be used for football tailgating and in the existing Asp Ave parking garage.  Doing this would allow OU to eventually tear down LNC and redevelop that entire site.

----------


## Jeepnokc

What are the little square buildings used for in the first picture?  The building look to be two building north of the Blender

----------


## Pete

> What are the little square buildings used for in the first picture?  The building look to be two building north of the Blender


They are a wing of the Fred Jones art gallery; part of an expansion a couple of decades ago.

----------


## Urbanized

Here’s a 2006 Architectural Digest article on the wing, which was built in large part to accommodate the then recently-acquired Weitzenhoffer Collection of (mostly) French Impressionism: https://www.architecturaldigest.com/...article-092006

----------


## DowntownMan

> Recent photos of campus:


When is the adams dorm scheduled to be demolished! I thought it was approved and was going to happen last summer.

----------


## Pete

> When is the adams dorm scheduled to be demolished! I thought it was approved and was going to happen last summer.


I don't think there is a schedule set.

They have to draw up a replacement plan and then come up with the funds.


I lived in Walker my freshman year and on the day I took the photographs above, I went to say goodbye just in case they decided to quickly take it down.  It was actually open as I guess there are some summer school residents.  Fond memories but the towers don't begin to compare with the new residential colleges.

----------


## mugofbeer

> I don't think there is a schedule set.
> 
> They have to draw up a replacement plan and then come up with the funds.
> 
> 
> I lived in Walker my freshman year and on the day I took the photographs above, I went to say goodbye just in case they decided to quickly take it down.  It was actually open as I guess there are some summer school residents.  Fond memories but the towers don't begin to compare with the new residential colleges.


My son was in Walker 2 years ago so l was able to see it again. Other than some furniture updates it was still essentially the same as 40 years ago. He said the primary issues were poor wi-fi and mold in the HVAC system.

----------


## Rover

> I don't think there is a schedule set.
> 
> They have to draw up a replacement plan and then come up with the funds.
> 
> 
> I lived in Walker my freshman year and on the day I took the photographs above, I went to say goodbye just in case they decided to quickly take it down.  It was actually open as I guess there are some summer school residents.  Fond memories but the towers don't begin to compare with the new residential colleges.


Im a Walker Tower alum from 1971. Still friends with my suite mates. Would love to pay it a visit now. Some great memories.

----------


## DowntownMan

> My son was in Walker 2 years ago so l was able to see it again. Other than some furniture updates it was still essentially the same as 40 years ago. He said the primary issues were poor wi-fi and mold in the HVAC system.


From what I understood. Walker and couch are both still fully utilized during school year, but adams is closed and will be first down. 
Lived in Adams so that one has my interest.

----------


## Pete

University of Oklahoma Breaks Fundraising Record
July 25, 2022

The University of Oklahoma received a record $317 million in gifts and pledges during the fiscal year that ended June 30, surpassing last year’s record of $237 million. The record-breaking fundraising performance, shepherded by the OU Foundation, positions the university for continued growth and success.

“Achieving yet another historic year of giving represents an extraordinary moment for the University of Oklahoma,” said OU President Joseph Harroz Jr. “Across the university, we’ve spent the past two years channeling our focus into amplifying OU’s excellence to even greater heights. This outpouring of support from our alumni and friends speaks to their endorsement of our progress and their belief in our momentum. Together, with our OU Family, we are building upon a legacy more than a century in the making: to change lives through education, innovation and service.”

Of the more than 80,377 gifts received this year, 54 totaled $1 million or more. Gifts of $10 million or more included commitments from Donald Ball of Tomball, Texas; Dave and Judi Proctor of Dallas, Texas; Jonny and Brenda Jones of Austin, Texas; Tim Headington of Dallas, Texas; and Love’s Travel Stops & Country Stores.

In addition to their longstanding support of the university’s academic areas, the transformational gifts made by Tim Headington and Love’s Travel Stops & Country Stores provided impactful support to the OU Athletics Department.

“Providing world-class resources for our student-athletes, coaches and staff is our top priority, and we simply cannot pursue and accomplish this standard of excellence without support from our stakeholders, donors and fans,” said OU Vice President and Director of Athletics Joe Castiglione. “OU Athletics and our generous and passionate stakeholders have worked year after year in lockstep to achieve record-setting success. We are so grateful to have this critical support in our ongoing pursuit that only continues to evolve in the ever-changing landscape of college athletics.”

In addition to gifts from loyal donors, the university saw a notable increase in gifts from first-time donors. During fiscal year 2022, nearly 7,000 people donated to OU for the first time, impacting areas of need all over campus. The majority of these donors made their gifts on OU’s Giving Day, a 24-hour digital fundraising event that set a new one-day fundraising record for the university, raising over $11 million with 2,978 gifts received from faculty, staff, students, alumni and friends across 41 states. 

Establishing a powerful and robust Giving Day was among the top priorities of OU Foundation Vice President and Chief Advancement Officer Amy Noah when she joined the foundation in 2021. Under Noah’s leadership, the foundation has prioritized establishing relationships with OU donors and alumni by increasing staffing, allowing the foundation to better connect current and potential donors with areas of support for which they have a passion – something that has greatly contributed to the foundation’s recent fundraising success.

“The OU Foundation has undergone great changes, but our dedication to supporting the university has stayed the same,” Noah said. “The growth of our organization has afforded us the opportunity to thoughtfully build and steward donor relationships at an even greater level of attentiveness.”

For more information or to make a gift to the university, visit oufoundation.org.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> University of Oklahoma Breaks Fundraising Record
> July 25, 2022
> 
> The University of Oklahoma received a record $317 million in gifts and pledges during the fiscal year that ended June 30, surpassing last year’s record of $237 million. The record-breaking fundraising performance, shepherded by the OU Foundation, positions the university for continued growth and success.
> 
> “Achieving yet another historic year of giving represents an extraordinary moment for the University of Oklahoma,” said OU President Joseph Harroz Jr. “Across the university, we’ve spent the past two years channeling our focus into amplifying OU’s excellence to even greater heights. This outpouring of support from our alumni and friends speaks to their endorsement of our progress and their belief in our momentum. Together, with our OU Family, we are building upon a legacy more than a century in the making: to change lives through education, innovation and service.”
> 
> Of the more than 80,377 gifts received this year, 54 totaled $1 million or more. Gifts of $10 million or more included commitments from Donald Ball of Tomball, Texas; Dave and Judi Proctor of Dallas, Texas; Jonny and Brenda Jones of Austin, Texas; Tim Headington of Dallas, Texas; and Love’s Travel Stops & Country Stores.
> 
> ...


It's almost as if there is a University President that alumni like!

----------


## Pete

Harroz is doing a fantastic job especially given all the Covid-driven budget challenges.

He seems to be universally liked and respected.

----------


## DowntownMan

> Harroz is doing a fantastic job especially given all the Covid-driven budget challenges.
> 
> He seems to be universally liked and respected.


Yes he has. 
I’m still convinced Gallogly was brought in on purpose to shake things up and clean some things up and then get out and let Harroz take over. Let Gallogly take blame for some things and gave Harroz clean slate to start on. 

Just my opinion from the outside.

----------


## Pete

> Yes he has. 
> I’m still convinced Gallogly was brought in on purpose to shake things up and clean some things up and then get out and let Harroz take over. Let Gallogly take blame for some things and gave Harroz clean slate to start on. 
> 
> Just my opinion from the outside.


No doubt about Gallogly but the way things were handled was horrific.

They could have easily accomplished what they did without that jackass trying to ruin Boren and casting a very negative light on the entire university.

Completely inexcusable.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Yes he has. 
> Im still convinced Gallogly was brought in on purpose to shake things up and clean some things up and then get out and let Harroz take over. Let Gallogly take blame for some things and gave Harroz clean slate to start on. 
> 
> Just my opinion from the outside.


this is what happened  and this is what the plan was to happen ..

----------


## Rover

> this is what happened  and this is what the plan was to happen ..


It was ham handed and arrogant.  It was highly politically motivated and a disaster.  There were changes that were needing to be made, but it was a clown show how it was done.  Luckily Harroz stuck around.

----------


## Pete

I was in Norman yesterday and noticed that Adams Center was completely empty and there were dumpsters outside.  Students are already back on campus and the other towers were filled, so I would expect Adams to start coming down very soon.

Also, Stubbeman Village directly to the west is also boarded up and just about ready to be scraped.


Haven't seen any plans for what will replace these buildings, but I'm sure it will be more student housing, likely similar to the recent university colleges built to the east.


BTW, OU welcomed its largest ever freshman class this year.

----------


## FighttheGoodFight

> I was in Norman yesterday and noticed that Adams Center was completely empty and there were dumpsters outside.  Students are already back on campus and the other towers were filled, so I would expect Adams to start coming down very soon.
> 
> Also, Stubbeman Village directly to the west is also boarded up and just about ready to be scraped.
> 
> 
> Haven't seen any plans for what will replace these buildings, but I'm sure it will be more student housing, likely similar to the recent university colleges built to the east.
> 
> 
> BTW, OU welcomed its largest ever freshman class this year.


Yes. The plan has been to start to demolish the old towers slowly and move to the newer dorm style with a private room, shared bathroom then shared living space. OU has been behind the times when it comes to dorm living. The newer dorms are such a big improvement.

----------


## Pete

It's just strange there are no public plans for what is to replace Adams & Stubbeman.

Same way for what will go on the site of the old Bud Wilkinson House which was also recently demolished.

----------


## HangryHippo

> It's just strange there are no public plans for what is to replace Adams & Stubbeman.
> 
> Same way for what will go on the site of the old Bud Wilkinson House which was also recently demolished.


Its not yet public, but the Bud site is going to be a football-adjacent complex.

No clue on the dorms and Stubbeman sites.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> It’s not yet public, but the Bud site is going to be a football-adjacent complex.
> 
> No clue on the dorms and Stubbeman sites.


yep thad turnipseed at work

----------


## Pete

Ground-breaking for the new softball stadium will be September 23rd:

https://soonersports.com/news/2022/8...r-sept-23.aspx

----------


## Plutonic Panda

^^^ another article about the groundbreaking: https://okcfox.com/sports/university...ta-hynes-field

----------


## KHutch66

Gabe Ikard just mentioned in his most recent podcast release that OU is currently in the process of searching for an architecture firm for a new football operations facility. The estimated cost at 175M.

----------


## Pete

> Gabe Ikard just mentioned in his most recent podcast release that OU is currently in the process of searching for an architecture firm for a new football operations facility. The estimated cost at 175M.


Anyone know what such a facility would include?

I suspect it would go on the site of the old Bud Wilkinson House which was recently demolished.

----------


## KHutch66

> Anyone know what such a facility would include?
> 
> I suspect it would go on the site of the old Bud Wilkinson House which was recently demolished.


Ikard - "This will include a new practice facility & world-class resources in recovery, sports science & nutrition."

----------


## Pete

Now at OU, when Chad Turnipseed at Clemson he spearheaded their new football operations facility so it probably is a rough approximation for what they are planning:  mini golf, hoops courts, pool tables, arcade games, 

https://www.businessinsider.com/phot...tting-green-14

----------


## Rover

> Anyone know what such a facility would include?
> 
> I suspect it would go on the site of the old Bud Wilkinson House which was recently demolished.


Probably an enhanced version of this:  https://clemsontigers.com/sports/foo...orial-stadium/
or this:  https://rolltide.com/sports/2016/6/1...ml.aspx?id=130

Thad Turnipseed, now at OU, was responsible for these.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Anyone know what such a facility would include?
> 
> I suspect it would go on the site of the old Bud Wilkinson House which was recently demolished.


this would also included full size new practice fields .. and the current OU track being moved .

----------


## Pete

> this would also included full size new practice fields .. and the current OU track being moved .


Wowee.  No wonder they need $175 million.

----------


## Pete

On the agenda for the next meeting of the regents:




> ACTION PROPOSED:
> President Harroz recommends the Board of Regents ratify the interim approval given
> per the Board Bylaws to approve funds not to exceed $2,500,000 for early site costs including
> demolition of Adams Center and associated site work for Phase I of the First-Year Housing
> Masterplan.
> 
> BACKGROUND AND/OR RATIONALE:
> The First Year Housing Master Plan was approved at the March 2021 Board of
> Regent Meeting as an addition to the Campus Master Plan of Capital Improvement Projects for
> ...

----------


## Pete

Also, there will be a massive new football facility just to the east of the stadium.

My understanding is the track will be relocated; the former Bud Wilkinson House has already been demolished.

The entire cost will be around $175 million.




> BACKGROUND AND/OR RATIONALE:
> This project is a new addition to the Campus Master Plan of Capital Improvement
> Projects for the Norman campus. The new Football Operations Facilities will be located on the
> Norman campus separate from and adjacent to Gaylord Family Oklahoma Memorial Stadium. It
> is anticipated that the project will develop new state-of-the-art facilities for functions consistent
> with those required to support Oklahoma Football training, practice, preparation, and
> performance. The project will also address existing athletics facilities currently operating at the
> adjacent location, initially conceptualized to be to the east of the stadium. The selected firm will
> be required to review the potential site development options for the new football operations
> ...

----------


## BG918

Now they just need to build the new basketball arena next to this facility at Brooks & Jenkins.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Now they just need to build the new basketball arena next to this facility at Brooks & Jenkins.


north of brooks  ....   is the perfect spot ....     however  there are no current funds for that .. and the UNP arena project is still alive

----------


## BG918

> north of brooks  ....   is the perfect spot ....     however  there are no current funds for that .. and the UNP arena project is still alive


Hopefully that dies like it did last time they floated it.  I can’t even believe that is still being considered.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Hopefully that dies like it did last time they floated it.  I can’t even believe that is still being considered.


it is a good solution   to the issue that OU doesn't have the funds to build a new stadium ....

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> it is a good solution   to the issue that OU doesn't have the funds to build a new stadium ....


It’s a horrible solution. OU can get the funds if they tried. They don’t want to try.

----------


## chssooner

> It’s a horrible solution. OU can get the funds if they tried. They don’t want to try.


I don't normally agree with Boulder, but in this, I do. He is heavily involved in the OUHoops website. He knows people who would know whether OU donors care about basketball. Basketball is almost below softball in terms of relevance to donors, so a new arena would be hard to accomplish. Donors would rather donate to football projects or softball projects. Their is apathy in the basketball program.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> I don't normally agree with Boulder, but in this, I do. He is heavily involved in the OUHoops website. He knows people who would know whether OU donors care about basketball. Basketball is almost below softball in terms of relevance to donors, so a new arena would be hard to accomplish. Donors would rather donate to football projects or softball projects. Their is apathy in the basketball program.


it is also very much the scale of the project ..    softball wins (they are the best team in the nation)   and still it really took multi national titles and an over 10mil gift from tom and judy love   to just start that 40mil project .. 

a new basketball arena is more like 3 or 4 hundred million ... or more ... (texas new arena 375 mil)    

there was a LNC renovation plan about 10-12 years ago  that would have been 150 mil  +/-   but those funds were going to be hard to raise .. 

football still have 300+ left of the stadium master plan       and the current push is for the new 175 mil football ops building ...  

one of the big reasons the UNP stadium was great (location travel restaurants bars aside)   is that OU was not going to have to pay for it ... 

(just as a note i own/operate ouhoops.com )   ..

----------


## BG918

> it is also very much the scale of the project ..    softball wins (they are the best team in the nation)   and still it really took multi national titles and an over 10mil gift from tom and judy love   to just start that 40mil project .. 
> 
> a new basketball arena is more like 3 or 4 hundred million ... or more ... (texas new arena 375 mil)    
> 
> there was a LNC renovation plan about 10-12 years ago  that would have been 150 mil  +/-   but those funds were going to be hard to raise .. 
> 
> football still have 300+ left of the stadium master plan       and the current push is for the new 175 mil football ops building ...  
> 
> one of the big reasons the UNP stadium was great (location travel restaurants bars aside)   is that OU was not going to have to pay for it ... 
> ...


OU and Norman should work out a deal where it serves its purpose as a basketball arena but also used for concerts and other events and pushes more urban development in the core.  It would not need to be anything like Moody in Austin, something more Foster Pavilion currently under construction in Waco where Baylor is funding $120M and City of Waco is funding the remaining $65M of the $185M price tag.  The size of that project, 7k seats, is also more appropriate for what OU needs.  They could even add some meetings rooms and have it as a mini-conference center used by OU and Norman.  

If there was a downtown site available that would work too but nowhere else has the advantages of the Brooks & Jenkins site:
1. OU already owns the land
2. On-campus so easy for students to access games and events
3. Existing parking lots by the Duck Pond - that combined with the Elm Ave garage by the stadium exceeds parking capacity at LNC
4. Future stop on commuter rail line to OKC and Edmond less than 1/4 mile to the east
5. Ability for fans to patronize Campus Corner bars and restaurants before/after games
6. Continues revitalization and redevelopment of the Jenkins Ave corridor from OU to downtown

----------


## BoulderSooner

> OU and Norman should work out a deal where it serves its purpose as a basketball arena but also used for concerts and other events and pushes more urban development in the core.  It would not need to be anything like Moody in Austin, something more Foster Pavilion currently under construction in Waco where Baylor is funding $120M and City of Waco is funding the remaining $65M of the $185M price tag.  The size of that project, 7k seats, is also more appropriate for what OU needs.  They could even add some meetings rooms and have it as a mini-conference center used by OU and Norman.  
> 
> If there was a downtown site available that would work too but nowhere else has the advantages of the Brooks & Jenkins site:
> 1. OU already owns the land
> 2. On-campus so easy for students to access games and events
> 3. Existing parking lots by the Duck Pond - that combined with the Elm Ave garage by the stadium exceeds parking capacity at LNC
> 4. Future stop on commuter rail line to OKC and Edmond less than 1/4 mile to the east
> 5. Ability for fans to patronize Campus Corner bars and restaurants before/after games
> 6. Continues revitalization and redevelopment of the Jenkins Ave corridor from OU to downtown


OU needs more than 7k seats ...  they have had 9k+ season ticket holders most of the last 25 years   and have over 6k currently

----------


## bhawes

Also the new OU basketball arena will be used by gymnastics, volleyball, and wrestling teams at OU. The committee  failed to include those others sports  will also use the arena, which is one reason they were unsuccessful In getting a deal. Also the new arena could be used for OU hockey team. The arena needs to at least seat  10000 to 12000 seats. Duke University arena seats about 10000 
seats.

----------


## GoGators

> OU and Norman should work out a deal where it serves its purpose as a basketball arena but also used for concerts and other events and pushes more urban development in the core.  It would not need to be anything like Moody in Austin, something more Foster Pavilion currently under construction in Waco where Baylor is funding $120M and City of Waco is funding the remaining $65M of the $185M price tag.  The size of that project, 7k seats, is also more appropriate for what OU needs.  They could even add some meetings rooms and have it as a mini-conference center used by OU and Norman.  
> 
> If there was a downtown site available that would work too but nowhere else has the advantages of the Brooks & Jenkins site:
> 1. OU already owns the land
> 2. On-campus so easy for students to access games and events
> 3. Existing parking lots by the Duck Pond - that combined with the Elm Ave garage by the stadium exceeds parking capacity at LNC
> 4.Future stop on commuter rail line to OKC and Edmond less than 1/4 mile to the east
> 5. Ability for fans to patronize Campus Corner bars and restaurants before/after games
> 6. Continues revitalization and redevelopment of the Jenkins Ave corridor from OU to downtown


OU needs to either wait until they can raise the funds for a new on campus arena or wait to make a deal with a developer that will build an arena near downtown/campus and wont relegate basketball to the middle of nowhere. The UNP location is so bad that staying in LNC until one of these two options comes around is the best move.

----------


## BG918

> Also the new OU basketball arena will be used by gymnastics, volleyball, and wrestling teams at OU. The committee  failed to include those others sports  will also use the arena, which is one reason they were unsuccessful In getting a deal. Also the new arena could be used for OU hockey team. The arena needs to at least seat  10000 to 12000 seats. Duke University arena seats about 10000 
> seats.


I would say closer to 9k seats.  20% smaller capacity than LNC but with more intimate seating and better fan amenities.  UT basketball is only at 11k seats in Moody with double OU's student population and in the middle of a metro of 2.3M.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> I would say closer to 9k seats.  20% smaller capacity than LNC but with more intimate seating and better fan amenities.  UT basketball is only at 11k seats in Moody with double OU's student population and in the middle of a metro of 2.3M.


Per Wiki Moody seats 10k for hoops. More importantly Mens and Womens hoops are the only sporting teams that use Moody. A multi sport arena us usually bad for basketball

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> OU needs to either wait until they can raise the funds for a new on campus arena or wait to make a deal with a developer that will build an arena near downtown/campus and wont relegate basketball to the middle of nowhere. The UNP location is so bad that staying in LNC until one of these two options comes around is the best move.


Yep. This +1000

----------


## BG918

> Per Wiki Moody seats 10k for hoops. More importantly Mens and Womens hoops are the only sporting teams that use Moody. A multi sport arena us usually bad for basketball


10k is official capacity, they had 11,313 for their first basketball game and at least that maybe more for the game against Gonzaga.    Same thing for OU's new arena...official capacity could be 9k but for big games could fit 10k+.  

Agree that a multisport arena is bad for basketball.  Like Moody though the new OU arena could be used for concerts and other events.  Gymnastics and hockey could be in a different venue closer to Jenkins & Imhoff.

----------


## BG918

OU is soliciting input on the viability of a new arena by I-35.  Ive sent my comments that this is a terrible idea and I hope others do the same.  Im honestly shocked this is even being considered.

https://s3327771.t.en25.com/e/es?s=3...id=677&elqat=1

----------


## chssooner

> OU is soliciting input on the viability of a new arena by I-35.  I’ve sent my comments that this is a terrible idea and I hope others do the same.  I’m honestly shocked this is even being considered.
> 
> https://s3327771.t.en25.com/e/es?s=3...id=677&elqat=1


Not sure terrible is the right word. This puts the arena closer to OKC, where many, many alumni live. Getting to South Norman for most from OKC is beyond a chore. This almost will cut it in half. I get it from the student perspective, but students have long since forgotten how to support OU sports in general, so why cater to them? They should put a new OU football stadium in OKC, as well (being slightly facetious). Students leave at halftime, if not earlier, of every football game. They don't show up for basketball, either.

----------


## Pete

There is no way a new basketball facility gets built anytime soon without a partnership with an outside entity.

I'm not sure I like the idea of this being in University North Park but frankly, it would be a better location than Lloyd Noble.

I'm sure they'd keep the basketball workout and practice facilities at the LNC and just play games at the new place.


This seems to be a better idea than doing nothing for another couple of decades.

----------


## BG918

> Not sure terrible is the right word. This puts the arena closer to OKC, where many, many alumni live. Getting to South Norman for most from OKC is beyond a chore. This almost will cut it in half. I get it from the student perspective, but students have long since forgotten how to support OU sports in general, so why cater to them? They should put a new OU football stadium in OKC, as well (being slightly facetious). Students leave at halftime, if not earlier, of every football game. They don't show up for basketball, either.


Terrible is the right word.  The arena should be on campus not by I-35.  Build it next to the stadium after the football operations center is built.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Also the new OU basketball arena will be used by gymnastics, volleyball, and wrestling teams at OU. The committee  failed to include those others sports  will also use the arena, which is one reason they were unsuccessful In getting a deal. Also the new arena could be used for OU hockey team. The arena needs to at least seat  10000 to 12000 seats. Duke University arena seats about 10000 
> seats.


only basketball and gymnastics ...      volleyball and wrestling will stay at the Field house

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Terrible is the right word.  The arena should be on campus not by I-35.  Build it next to the stadium after the football operations center is built.


a new arena in 20 years does no one any good and that is the timing of an arena on campus  with out a 400 million dollar gift to basketball ..  

this UNP project solves lots of the issues with OU basketball attendance ..... but #1 it can actually get build in the very near future .... that alone makes it a good idea ..

----------


## jdross1982

> only basketball and gymnastics ...      volleyball and wrestling will stay at the Field house


That may be for a majority of their matches but Wrestling will use the facility as well especially for the larger matches.

----------


## jdross1982

> a new arena in 20 years does no one any good and that is the timing of an arena on campus  with out a 400 million dollar gift to basketball ..  
> 
> this UNP project solves lots of the issues with OU basketball attendance ..... but #1 it can actually get build in the very near future .... that alone makes it a good idea ..


Agreed. Considering there is 50 million in other facility upgrades needed (wrestling, gymnastics, baseball) and another 400 million in football stadium improvements needed before a 200 million + arena can be built on campus without any partnership with an outside company so the university and boosters were not on the hook for their 300 million arena. Look for OU to try and go this route as well but the arena will need to be off campus to get the investors to join in.

----------


## Pete

Also, keep in mind that OU owns the land under University North Park.

They get ground lease and other revenue from the entire development.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Agreed. Considering there is 50 million in other facility upgrades needed (wrestling, gymnastics, baseball) and another 400 million in football stadium improvements needed before a 200 million + arena can be built on campus without any partnership with an outside company so the university and boosters were not on the hook for their 300 million arena. Look for OU to try and go this route as well but the arena will need to be off campus to get the investors to join in.


that 400 mil for the football stadium   also doesn't include the 175+ mil  new football ops building   that is on the fast track

----------


## Jake

The thing that'll boost attendance is close proximity to a MetroShoe Warehouse so you can try on some Sketchers after the game. 

UNP - 1
Campus - 0

----------


## jdross1982

> that 400 mil for the football stadium   also doesn't include the 175+ mil  new football ops building   that is on the fast track


100% correct

----------


## jdross1982

> Also, keep in mind that OU owns the land under University North Park.
> 
> They get ground lease and other revenue from the entire development.


Which is why I think they should be able to pull off a deal with a group of investors (just like Texas did) where the investors get revenue from the site over a period of time before OU would get any additional revenue. Texas deal was 10 years of concessions and other events revenue before Texas was able to get a %. I think OU should be able to do that same type of deal in UNP. Probably closer to 200 mil vs the 300 Texas' cost as theirs can expand to 17K.

----------


## BG918

> Agreed. Considering there is 50 million in other facility upgrades needed (wrestling, gymnastics, baseball) and another 400 million in football stadium improvements needed before a 200 million + arena can be built on campus without any partnership with an outside company so the university and boosters were not on the hook for their 300 million arena. Look for OU to try and go this route as well but the arena will need to be off campus to get the investors to join in.


I understand the financial incentive to go this route but it's the exact opposite of literally every other university in the country which has been either bringing sports back to campus or making upgrades to existing on-campus facilities.  

OU will be in the SEC in the next couple years so here's a few examples of what their universities have done for basketball:
Auburn - moved their arena *on-campus* next to new student housing.  Completed in 2010 for a cost of $91 million and has 9,121 seats for basketball
Alabama - approved funds for a new arena *on-campus*.  10,136 seats for basketball and a cost of $183 million
LSU - planning renovations to their current *on-campus* arena.  13,215 seats for basketball
Arkansas - planning renovations to their current *on-campus* arena.  19,200 seats for basketball
Ole Miss - built a new arena *on-campus*.  Completed in 2016 for a cost of $97 million and has 9,500 seats for basketball
Georgia - renovated their *on-campus* arena in 2017.  10,523 seats for basketball
Florida - renovated their *on-campus* arena in 2016.  10,151 seats for basketball

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Terrible is the right word.  The arena should be on campus not by I-35.  Build it next to the stadium after the football operations center is built.


Yeah I would agree. It is pretty terrible if this option is chosen. Keep everything on campus and walkable. It’s easier to drink too and not worry about DUIs.

----------


## jdross1982

> Yeah I would agree. It is pretty terrible if this option is chosen. Keep everything on campus and walkable. It’s easier to drink too and not worry about DUIs.


Not at LNC.

----------


## jdross1982

> I understand the financial incentive to go this route but it's the exact opposite of literally every other university in the country which has been either bringing sports back to campus or making upgrades to existing on-campus facilities.  
> 
> OU will be in the SEC in the next couple years so here's a few examples of what their universities have done for basketball:
> Auburn - moved their arena *on-campus* next to new student housing.  Completed in 2010 for a cost of $91 million and has 9,121 seats for basketball
> Alabama - approved funds for a new arena *on-campus*.  10,136 seats for basketball and a cost of $183 million
> LSU - planning renovations to their current *on-campus* arena.  13,215 seats for basketball
> Arkansas - planning renovations to their current *on-campus* arena.  19,200 seats for basketball
> Ole Miss - built a new arena *on-campus*.  Completed in 2016 for a cost of $97 million and has 9,500 seats for basketball
> Georgia - renovated their *on-campus* arena in 2017.  10,523 seats for basketball
> Florida - renovated their *on-campus* arena in 2016.  10,151 seats for basketball


Not disagreeing with you but OU flat out does not have the 200 mil to put towards this on campus. Not with more than half a billion in needed athletic upgrades elsewhere on campus.

----------


## Rover

All this on campus sentimentality would be great if the students were actually into going, and if more students actually lived ON campus themselves.  OU students are strung out all over Norman and many, many drive to campus daily.  And, if it could be built near a thriving campus corner with lots of restaurants and shops alumni would also like to frequent would be nice.  But that isnt the reality.  UNP would create way more attendance and business activity, most likely even for the students.

----------


## Pete

Plus, very few students are walking to Lloyd Noble.  I know I never did and I spent all four years on campus and rarely missed a home game.

The debate is staying at LNC for 20 more years vs. this new facility; not the new facility vs. a new on-campus arena, because that is not happening anytime soon.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> Not at LNC.


LNC sells beer. A new on campus facility would do same.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> I understand the financial incentive to go this route but it's the exact opposite of literally every other university in the country which has been either bringing sports back to campus or making upgrades to existing on-campus facilities.  
> 
> OU will be in the SEC in the next couple years so here's a few examples of what their universities have done for basketball:
> Auburn - moved their arena *on-campus* next to new student housing.  Completed in 2010 for a cost of $91 million and has 9,121 seats for basketball
> Alabama - approved funds for a new arena *on-campus*.  10,136 seats for basketball and a cost of $183 million
> LSU - planning renovations to their current *on-campus* arena.  13,215 seats for basketball
> Arkansas - planning renovations to their current *on-campus* arena.  19,200 seats for basketball
> Ole Miss - built a new arena *on-campus*.  Completed in 2016 for a cost of $97 million and has 9,500 seats for basketball
> Georgia - renovated their *on-campus* arena in 2017.  10,523 seats for basketball
> Florida - renovated their *on-campus* arena in 2016.  10,151 seats for basketball


bud walton at arkansas is about a mile from the dorms ...    about as "on campus"  as the LNC 

auburn is next to the dorms  

alabama arena is over a mile from the dorms    as on campus as the LNC 

LSU arena is close to everything 

Ole miss dorms are over a half mile away 

UGA is over a half mile to any dorms 

UF   is near the dorms 


but with this logic   OU should just renovate the LNC because it is on campus ...   and i don't think any one sees that as a good option ....   and that would still cost over 100 mil

----------


## Jersey Boss

For reasons unknown the AD has refused to acknowlwdge the contributions that Billy Tubbs made to the program and college  in general. It is long overdue that the floor or facility be named in his honor. Last year a banner was hoisted honoring Coale as sell as a bench outside in her honor. There are no statues of Tisdale, Alvin, Blake or other greats either. Shameful.

----------


## Jersey Boss

> bud walton at arkansas is about a mile from the dorms ...    about as "on campus"  as the LNC 
> 
> auburn is next to the dorms  
> 
> alabama arena is over a mile from the dorms    as on campus as the LNC 
> 
> LSU arena is close to everything 
> 
> Ole miss dorms are over a half mile away 
> ...


And Ol Miss spent 97M., Auburn 91M, and Bama 183M. OU spending 100M should not be a barrier unless Ol Miss has better resources.

----------


## chssooner

At this point, facilities don't matter as much as NIL money. So I think a lot of BMDs are going to put more into NIL than for facilities, meaning OU will need to find other ways to fund projects like this.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

So the argument is since OU students don’t walk around campus due driving culture might as well add to the snowball effect of that and move the facility even further off campus?

----------


## BoulderSooner

> And Ol Miss spent 97M., Auburn 91M, and Bama 183M. OU spending 100M should not be a barrier unless Ol Miss has better resources.


it would happen eventually     but an OU funded  new or renovated basketball arena is behind a bunch of other projects in the pipeline ...   (175 new football ops center (this also moved the existing track so a new track)  400 mil + to finish the football stadium, baseball stadium renovation (really they need a new one )  plus other upgrades)    with out a basketball mega donor to fund 75+ mil kick start gift  the LNC is not getting a full reno any time soon .

----------


## jedicurt

> So the argument is since OU students dont walk around campus due driving culture might as well add to the snowball effect of that and move the facility even further off campus?


no the argument is, do we want a new basketball facility now, or in 20 years?  because there isn't an option for a new one now on campus.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> no the argument is, do we want a new basketball facility now, or in 20 years?  because there isn't an option for a new one now on campus.


I’m not buying that. If there’s a will there’s a way.

----------


## jedicurt

> I’m not buying that. If there’s a will there’s a way.


there isn't a will... that's what people are saying. people are not putting up money to the foundation for a basketball arena.    the only way this gets done anytime soon, is if they can make a deal to put it somewhere else with money from either the city of norman, or the county.   otherwise it's literally not getting done, because the donors don't have the will to get it done.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> there isn't a will... that's what people are saying. people are not putting up money to the foundation for a basketball arena.    the only way this gets done anytime soon, is if they can make a deal to put it somewhere else with money from either the city of norman, or the county.   otherwise it's literally not getting done, because the donors don't have the will to get it done.


100% correct

----------


## citywokchinesefood

OU should try and work with the Thunder to host the Blue at any new facility they make. Norman is close enough to OKC to not put travel stress on the players and I think the Blue might draw a better viewership in a smaller facility in the metro. Between having a second team and potentially concerts, shows, etc. the facility could be active quite a bit throughout the year.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> there isn't a will... that's what people are saying. people are not putting up money to the foundation for a basketball arena.    the only way this gets done anytime soon, is if they can make a deal to put it somewhere else with money from either the city of norman, or the county.   otherwise it's literally not getting done, because the donors don't have the will to get it done.


That is the problem then. Small town mentality.

----------


## BG918

> no the argument is, do we want a new basketball facility now, or in 20 years?  because there isn't an option for a new one now on campus.


OU should wait and do this the right way by building on-campus.  The perfect location is currently a parking lot east of the stadium.  Get Norman to pitch in funds since they will be benefitting from this just as much as OU.  Similar to how a future MAPS will fund a new Thunder arena even though the team itself could fund it themselves.  

Campus Corner could definitely use the boost from 30+ bball games annually within walking distance.  And could help pull new redevelopment there east on Boyd toward Jenkins.  Lots of new student apartments and townhomes have also been built along Jenkins and to the east and that will continue.  Additionally, OU is going to rebuild all of the existing dorm towers and redevelop Cate Center into student housing so youll have one of the highest residential densities in the state a short walk from the arena/stadium complex.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> OU should wait and do this the right way by building on-campus.  The perfect location is currently a parking lot east of the stadium.  Get Norman to pitch in funds since they will be benefitting from this just as much as OU.  Similar to how a future MAPS will fund a new Thunder arena even though the team itself could fund it themselves.  
> 
> Campus Corner could definitely use the boost from 30+ bball games annually within walking distance.  And could help pull new redevelopment there east on Boyd toward Jenkins.  Lots of new student apartments and townhomes have also been built along Jenkins and to the east and that will continue.  Additionally, OU is going to rebuild all of the existing dorm towers and redevelop Cate Center into student housing so you’ll have one of the highest residential densities in the state a short walk from the arena/stadium complex.



the new 175 mil football facility and new practice fields are going just east of the stadium  

and how long should OU wait ....   the current wait is now over 17 years ..

----------


## Jersey Boss

Like the football facilities the basketball facilities are the face of OU on national tv. This should be reason enough to prioritze over baseball or other unnamed projects.
OU will be getting a significant revenue bump when they join the SEC. This could go to a new basketball facility. 
The word among more than 1 campus corner merchant is OU is looking to acquire campuz corner which is why Pinocchio's deceided not to locate there. Hideaway is also prepared for that. If OU has the funds for that kind of  purchase, 100 M is nothing.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Like the football facilities the basketball facilities are the face of OU on national tv. This should be reason enoug8h to prioritze over baseball or other unnamed projects.
> OU will be getting a significant revenue bump when they join the SEC. This could go to a new basketball facility. 
> The word among more than 1 campus corner merchant is OU is looking to acquire campuz corner which is why Pinocchio's deceided not to locate there. Hideaway is also prepared for that. If OU has the funds for that kind of  purchase, 100 M is nothing.


this is not reality

----------


## Jersey Boss

> this is not reality


Care to expand on that as it is not much of a reply

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Care to expand on that as it is not much of a reply


a new basketball arena  is behind about 500 mil in other projects in time and funding ..    if the OU AD just had the money   OU baseball wouldn't be waiting on a 20+ mil project that is already part funded ..

----------


## Rover

> Care to expand on that as it is not much of a reply


Maybe he's reflecting that the inside views of the basketball arena do not drive much public perception... not nearly like the overall shots of the football stadium.  What hurts the basketball perception is all the empty seats.  That can be rectified by the fans now without expansion, remodeling, etc.  On TV the current arena looks fine when and if ever near full.

----------


## BG918

> the new 175 mil football facility and new practice fields are going just east of the stadium  
> 
> and how long should OU wait ....   the current wait is now over 17 years ..


There haven't been any plans released showing their location but they are expected to go at the NE corner of Lindsay & Jenkins.  You could fit that and practice fields north of it and still have room for the arena.  Superimposing Auburn's arena at the same scale it would fit in between the practice fields and Brooks St. with 2,200+ parking stalls still available in what's left of the Duck Pond lot.  Additional parking would be available in the existing Asp Ave (5 min walk) and Jenkins Ave (10 min walk) parking garages which combined have nearly 2,000 stalls.  Not to mention most students would be able to *walk* to games and this leaves open the possibility of having a commuter rail station a quarter mile to the east on the future Norman-OKC-Edmond line.

See below for a rough outline of what this would look like

----------


## BoulderSooner

> There haven't been any plans released showing their location but they are expected to go at the NE corner of Lindsay & Jenkins.  You could fit that and practice fields north of it and still have room for the arena.  Superimposing Auburn's arena at the same scale it would fit in between the practice fields and Brooks with 2,200+ parking stalls still available what's left of the Duck Pond lot.  Additional parking would be available in the existing Asp Ave and Jenkins Ave parking garage which combined have nearly 2,000 stalls.
> 
> See attached rough outline of what this would look like


practice facility is going directly east of the stadium  not on the corner ..

----------


## BoulderSooner

> practice facility is going directly east of the stadium  not on the corner ..


also you didn't include the necessary parking that is required for basketball ..  (far far different requirement then football parking )

----------


## jedicurt

plus basketball training facilities, etc.  or would they still practice down just south of LNC like they do now?  having those facilities there make sense, if the new arena is built off campus, but it makes no sense to not include having the training facilities right next to the arena on campus, which is why i think somewhere near the existing LNC is the only place one would be built on campus.  and thus the same problems people already talk about.   unless you are also able to find a space that allows for the basketball training facilities to be either included in the arena, or close by

----------


## BG918

> also you didn't include the necessary parking that is required for basketball ..  (far far different requirement then football parking )


The original UNP proposal included a 10,000 seat arena with a 2,600 space garage.  Utilizing the remaining Duck Pond surface lot and the two existing garages you would have over 4,000 spaces within a short walk of an on-campus arena.  Also distributing the parking among three different locations is ideal compared to one single lot or garage.  Not to mention the fans that would park in and around Campus Corner before games and students that wouldn't be driving.




> A 36.4 acre entertainment district located on the southwest quarter of the property, bordered by Rock Creek Road, I-35 and 24th Avenue NW. This would include the new arena, which would cover about 14 acres. It would hold 10,000 spectators and offer club, boxed and suite seating. It would be supported by 2,600 parking spaces in a garage. The entertainment district also would include the new hotel, an events plaza, a festival street and other sites set aside for office, entertainment and restaurant use.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> The original UNP proposal included a 10,000 seat arena with a 2,600 space garage.  Utilizing the remaining Duck Pond surface lot and the two existing garages you would have over 4,000 spaces within a short walk of an on-campus arena, many more than the UNP proposal.  Also distributing the parking among three different locations is ideal compared to one single lot or garage.  Not to mention the fans that would park in and around Campus Corner before games and students that wouldn't be driving.


those garages are used during the school day   ..   OU has lots of games that start at 6 pm weekdays ..    and most students would be driving ..

----------


## Jersey Boss

I would think a new arena could go up in a close enough proximity to the LNC in order to still continue using the Griffin center that was partially funded by Blake. Upon completion of the new facility demolish LNC.

----------


## jedicurt

> I would think a new arena could go up in a close enough proximity to the LNC in order to still continue using the Griffin center that was partially funded by Blake. Upon completion of the new facility demolish LNC.


oh it absolutely could be. but that doesn't resolve the "walkability" issue that many others have, and there just isn't support from donors for that idea.   So again, we are back to it's either build it in UNP or wait for at least a decade and a half for OU to get it on the list of projects

----------


## Rover

> I would think a new arena could go up in a close enough proximity to the LNC in order to still continue using the Griffin center that was partially funded by Blake. Upon completion of the new facility demolish LNC.


The Griffin center would still be used.  It is just the actual games would be moved to the new arena.  For the student athletes it wouldn't really make a difference.

----------


## caaokc

Having the arena off of I-35 would make going to a Tuesday 6pm game from OKC way more feasible. Getting to LNC at that time is a pain!

----------


## Rover

> those garages are used during the school day   ..   OU has lots of games that start at 6 pm weekdays ..    and most students would be driving ..


Sure, Give all students free parking from 2 hours before game time til 2 hours after.  They could shop, eat/drink, go to game, and then eat again.  Validate with game ticket or proof of attendance.  And have free shuttle/party buses from the campus dorm area.

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## dankrutka

I've said it before and I'll say it again: OU should invite mixed use projects on the giant parking desert that surrounds LNC. You could get a lot of students and alumni living right next to the arena with restaurants and other venues to do things before/after games. This development could activate this area which already includes baseball, will include softball, and is near research park. I know LNC isn't a great arena, but maybe if the exterior wasn't depressing, more people would be interested in attending games.

If they don't want to do that then build on campus. Lloyd Noble is isolated and away from the main campus. It's hard to know how many students would attend an on campus arena, but if OU is moving, it should be on campus. I absolutely hate the idea of a stadium by I-35.

----------


## Cocaine

An arena near I-35 makes sense in 1982 or 1995 at the latest. Just build it on campus and there's really no reason why the city or county should pitch in. Plenty of donors could pony up the money to get it done. And redeveloping the area near lloyd noble to make it more walkable should be done as well. The only money Norman or the county should put in could be some type of money for better public transportation. Maybe even some type of BRT or streetcar that serves multiple areas of the city.

----------


## SEMIweather

Question, would funding for the UNP stadium need to be approved by the voters, or is it dependent on the city council? And if it’s the latter, are we really thinking there are enough council votes to get this done, because it seems to me like it would possibly be 6-3 against.

----------


## jedicurt

> Plenty of donors could pony up the money to get it done.


except that they aren't.   which is why we are where we are. there is no current option to build on campus.  none.   the only two options are UNP or not building one till all the other projects in the pipeline are taken care of... so 15-20 years.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Question, would funding for the UNP stadium need to be approved by the voters, or is it dependent on the city council? And if it’s the latter, are we really thinking there are enough council votes to get this done, because it seems to me like it would possibly be 6-3 against.


i think norman city has jumped on board  because they realized this was going to happen with or without them   pushed by the county ..

----------


## Jersey Boss

> i think norman city has jumped on board  because they realized this was going to happen with or without them   pushed by the county ..


So to be clear, you are claiming that Cleveland County will be funding it along with OU/State Goverment? While Norman is circulating citizen interest, Norman has not indicated resident desires.

----------


## SEMIweather

I would be interested in the exact mechanism by which Cleveland County can supersede Norman and fund the arena. I’m sure it’s possible, it’s just not a process that I can recall being used for any major projects in the OKC Metro.

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## Jersey Boss

I could be wrong but I do not see approval for that kind of expense at the Council or ballot box, especially if the survey does not indicate big support.
UNP and the original TIF was sold to the community with concepts and promises that went unfilled. Good luck selling this.
Maybe Stitt was seeking $ from Qatar for this. Qatar has recent expierience in venue construction.

----------


## G.Walker

They had a plan way back in 2017 to do the same thing, not sure how this is different?

https://kfor.com/news/ou-foundation-...for-new-arena/

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## G.Walker

Money isn't the issue, OU has the money, and so does Norman. The issue is that Norman residents are Nimby, and they need to sway residents for the support. I am all for it, sometimes you need to take a chance and be different.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> They had a plan way back in 2017 to do the same thing, not sure how this is different?
> 
> https://kfor.com/news/ou-foundation-...for-new-arena/


the county kept the plan alive    it has been worked behind the scenes for a while now ..  and the city is now onboard ..

----------


## Jersey Boss

> They had a plan way back in 2017 to do the same thing, not sure how this is different?
> 
> https://kfor.com/news/ou-foundation-...for-new-arena/


The people sitting on the city council changed. The current mayor had been an insider with the County Commisioners, having served on related boards including the Industrial Authority. 
The last go round had a freedom of information issue with the OU BoR. The foundation pulled the request before info was released. 
The survey that the developers are circulating ask as to what ward you live in. My hunch is this will be a campaign issue and the developers want to know where to spend to sway voters to support pro arena candidates.

----------


## mugofbeer

I keep thinking Lloyd Noble isn't that old and it can be a great place to watch bb, but then l realize l saw Billy Ball games there over 40 years ago.

----------


## Bunty

> I keep thinking Lloyd Noble isn't that old and it can be a great place to watch bb, but then l realize l saw Billy Ball games there over 40 years ago.


And I saw Prince in concert there around 40 years ago.   But it still holds more people than Gallagher-Iba at OSU, so don't see much need to replace it with a new one.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> so don't see much need to replace it with a new one.


when is the last time you were in the LNC??

----------


## dheinz44

I believe GIA holds about 2500 more than LNC

----------


## BoulderSooner

> I believe GIA holds about 2500 more than LNC


after ADA improvements    the LNC official capacity went down from 12k to just under 11k  ... GIA is 13,611   ..       

LNC has standing room area for another 1k +

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## mugofbeer

Gallegher Iba holds 13,611  while LNC holds 10,967 per the Wiki's

----------


## GoGators

> *Money isn't the issue, OU has the money*, and so does Norman. The issue is that Norman residents are Nimby, and they need to sway residents for the support. I am all for it, sometimes you need to take a chance and be different.


Isn’t the entire UNP proposal based on OU *not* having the money for a basketball arena? If money wasn’t the issue it seems OU wouldn’t have to entertain the idea of playing home games next to a petsmart off the interstate.

----------


## BG918

> Isn’t the entire UNP proposal based on OU *not* having the money for a basketball arena? If money wasn’t the issue it seems OU wouldn’t have to entertain the idea of *playing home games next to a petsmart off the interstate*.


Ouch!

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Isn’t the entire UNP proposal based on OU *not* having the money for a basketball arena? If money wasn’t the issue it seems OU wouldn’t have to entertain the idea of playing home games next to a petsmart off the interstate.


this is correct ...

----------


## jedicurt

> Isn’t the entire UNP proposal based on OU *not* having the money for a basketball arena? If money wasn’t the issue it seems OU wouldn’t have to entertain the idea of playing home games next to a petsmart off the interstate.


yes. this is the correct statement.    OU has tried now for a decade to get donors on board and they are willing to give to pretty much everything except an LNC replacement.    So if OU wants to do it alone, it will have to get on the long term planning after all projects current in the pipeline, so it wouldn't even start for about another 17 years.    that is why i keep getting confused with the people saying they should just ask the donors.   they have.  the only two options are UNP or wait 20 years

----------


## Jersey Boss

Let this matter be deceided after OU gets the first SEC  tv revenue check and they open the books to see what the University has as far as resources. Trust but verify.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Let this matter be deceided after OU gets the first SEC  tv revenue check and they open the books to see what the University has as far as resources. Trust but verify.


ou won't make that much more in the first couple of years in the SEC    the big money comes later in the decade ..

----------


## BG918

> ou won't make that much more in the first couple of years in the SEC    the big money comes later in the decade ..


Then build the new on-campus arena once the money rolls in.  In the meantime start planning for it and make the other improvements east of the stadium compatible so it’s easier to build when the time is right.  Also hopefully by then there will be some movement on the commuter rail line of which there will be an adjacent station.

----------


## Jersey Boss

The athletic department needs to open the books showing what each sport generates in revenue(television, radio, donors, ticket sales) and what the expenses are for each sport.
They need to make a case with documentation why they have not planned for arena replacement until the last 5 years.

----------


## Bunty

> when is the last time you were in the LNC??


LOL. Around 1983 back when OSU's arena could only hold around 7500.  So, I must say, after reading previous posts, it does actually seem OU needs to finally keep up and get ahead of OSU by building a new LNC, so it will hold more people than Gallagher-Iba, like by at least 15,000.  Surely, a fabulously wealthy OU alumni could finance much of it.  After all, that is how every major new academic building or stadium is financed at OSU.  Long gone are the days when the state of Oklahoma would finance any new building there.

A new 15,000 seat LNC arena in Norman could be well justified if it can draw more people than Gallagher-Iba arena can from Stillwater, Tulsa, and OKC metro, though it would depend on how well OU basketball and wrestling are doing at beating opponents.

----------


## chssooner

Have to remember, a new arena would greatly benefit Norman from a concert perspective, as well. Right now? They get diddly squat, basically. New arena always get shows, especially if this were in that 10-12,000 seat range, something not present in Oklahoma, aside from the college arenas, which aren't built for modern concerts. That would draw people to Norman restaurants and hotel rooms. Having it be easily accessible on I-35 might not be ideal for students but for visitors, it's highly ideal. Just my perspective. It benefits the city and county more in UNP.

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## BoulderSooner

> LOL. Around 1983 back when OSU's arena could only hold around 7500.  So, I must say, after reading previous posts, it does actually seem OU needs to finally keep up and get ahead of OSU by building a new LNC, so it will hold more people than Gallagher-Iba, like by at least 15,000.  Surely, a fabulously wealthy OU alumni could finance much of it.  After all, that is how every major new academic building or stadium is financed at OSU.  Long gone are the days when the state of Oklahoma would finance any new building there.
> 
> A new 15,000 seat LNC arena in Norman could be well justified if it can draw more people than Gallagher-Iba arena can from Stillwater, Tulsa, and OKC metro, though it would depend on how well OU basketball and wrestling are doing at beating opponents.


osu until 2 years ago  had state tax payer dollars going to fund the athletic dept  each and every year .. .something OU has not done ..  osu also funds the AD with student fees

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## KHutch66

> Have to remember, a new arena would greatly benefit Norman from a concert perspective, as well. Right now? They get diddly squat, basically. New arena always get shows, especially if this were in that 10-12,000 seat range, something not present in Oklahoma, aside from the college arenas, which aren't built for modern concerts. That would draw people to Norman restaurants and hotel rooms. Having it be easily accessible on I-35 might not be ideal for students but for visitors, it's highly ideal. Just my perspective. It benefits the city and county more in UNP.


Not a large amount but seems that there is a solid amount of shows at Riverwind.

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## FighttheGoodFight

There has been sporadic shows in Norman. Ive been to a concert at LNC, U2 in the football stadium and White Stripes in McCasland.

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## Jersey Boss

> There has been sporadic shows in Norman. Ive been to a concert at LNC, U2 in the football stadium and White Stripes in McCasland.


I have wondered how aggresive OU has been in attempting to book concerts. I moved here in 1978 and the first in state concert I went to was Springsteen in Dec. of 78. I saw many more shows there throughout the 80's. Then things dried up. Was it a new administration? IDK.
Memorial Stadium hosted Rocklahoma, the Stones, and U2.
How aggresive OU has been in trying to book shows also needs to be answered before a new arena is looking for local funds. What is OU currently doing as well as what have they done in the last 15 years to maximize revenue from their existing venues?

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## BoulderSooner

> The athletic department needs to open the books showing what each sport generates in revenue(television, radio, donors, ticket sales) and what the expenses are for each sport.
> They need to make a case with documentation why they have not planned for arena replacement until the last 5 years.


make a case to whom??

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## Jersey Boss

> make a case to whom??


Well if they are looking for funding outside of the University, those who money they are asking for. Pretty simple

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## jdross1982

> Well if they are looking for funding outside of the University, those who money they are asking for. Pretty simple


That would not require the university to open their books to anyone. If they are looking for outside funding to build the arena, the agreement/plan in place would be to play all Men's and Women's games there for a period of time (probably 10-15 years) along with some other events. It would also mean the developer could secure other events such as HS tournaments, concerts as well as many other things. None of which requires OU to say well we have tried to do x over x number of years and have not been able to raise enough yet.

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## BimmerSooner

> Well if they are looking for funding outside of the University, those who money they are asking for. Pretty simple


Maybe to you. 

My understanding of the arrangement/relationship is not one where the University is looking for “outside funding”, as I believe you are implying.  Therefore, no one needs to open the books for anyone.  They aren’t looking for a subsidy.  OU is chiefly trying to gauge fan support for patronizing a new arena in a radically different location, with a variety of ticket packages for a variety of sports, versus significantly remodeling the LNC.  The plan would be a long-term lease between the city, or whomever the legal owners are, and OU.  OU wouldn’t own the arena, partial or completely.  So what they are truly trying to gauge is whether they should enter into a long-term lease, or not.  

As for the city and county, they want to know if OU will be a lessee.  If they won’t be, the project is likely not feasible.  Got to have that anchor tenant, so to speak.

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## SEMIweather

Announced attendance of 4,758 tonight for OU basketball at home against a Top 25 opponent. I was at the LNC and frankly that number seems somewhat generous. OU may or may not manage to get a new off-campus arena built, but I just dont see how its going to fix this level of fan apathy.

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## Jake

https://twitter.com/RandyPete/status...mSKsGJy5bUzKCw

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## chssooner

Almost like a game when students are not in session shouldn't be packed with students...

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## Jersey Boss

> Announced attendance of 4,758 tonight for OU basketball at home against a Top 25 opponent. I was at the LNC and frankly that number seems somewhat generous. OU may or may not manage to get a new off-campus arena built, but I just don’t see how it’s going to fix this level of fan apathy.


I started going to OU games in 1980 when Lester Pace and "Juice" Whitley were starters.
I agree with your statement on apathy but I feel that the AD is also apathetic. 
Mens hoops is in addition to football a revenue generator. Yet the investment the AD has made is minimal. Why are there no statues of Wayman, or other notable players. Why is the court not blessed with the Tubbs name? There is more recognition of Coale than Tubbs yet she did not impact the sport as much as Billy.
Bottom line though is you need talent on the floor to put asses in seats. With the revolving door of players fans don't know who is playing from year to year. Fans want more than Red Panda at the half. 
Talent needs to be playing on a regular basis before a new arena is sought 
Alums in the NBA need to kick some NIL money to put NBA talent on the roster.

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## Bunty

> Announced attendance of 4,758 tonight for OU basketball at home against a Top 25 opponent. I was at the LNC and frankly that number seems somewhat generous. OU may or may not manage to get a new off-campus arena built, but I just don’t see how it’s going to fix this level of fan apathy.


OSU has the same problem.  Only few people from OKC and Tulsa metros want to see OSU play when school not in session. Some Stillwater Townies do at least.   As for both schools, I would be more concerned about low attendance to basketball games as well as wrestling later on when both schools are in session.

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## catcherinthewry

I don't know how many people feel the same way I do, but I was a big OU hoops fans before the Thunder came to town. I still follow OU BB, but the quality of the pro game is so far above that of the NCAA game that I now find college BB hard to watch, let alone attend.

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## Pete

OKCTalk has obtained plans for the first phase of the total rebuilding of the freshman dorms at OU.



Funds were recently approved to demolish Adams Center, one of the three dorm towers just south of Lindsey Street.

The plans show that in place of the 12-story Adams, there will be two five-story brick buildings similar to the recently built residential colleges to the east.

In addition to new dorm rooms, each will have lounge and study areas as well as a large storm shelter.  The north building will have a coffee shop; the south a convenience store.

All the dorm towers were built in the 1960s and President Joseph Harroz has said the university has adopted a “freshman housing master plan” which would systematically replace all.  Once Adams is replaced Walker and Couch towers would also give way to similar new structures.

The university recently acquired the 1,200-bed Cross Center (Admas has 908) which will allow it to maintain a sufficient housing supply while they continue the demolish/rebuild process.

The architects are ADG/Blatt of Oklahoma City.

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## chssooner

I love this design! Just me, though. 

In before someone complains about the height  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Thank you for the update, Pete!

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## Pete

It will be interesting to see what they do with Cate Center in the long-term.

It's equally old and very low-density and sits as the gateway between the university and housing.

I suspect replacing it is a low priority simply because the towers have so many more rooms.

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## dheinz44

I think about half of the Cate dorms have been converted into classroom and office space.

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## BoulderSooner

> I think about half of the Cate dorms have been converted into classroom and office space.


yep i believe that Cate 1 and 2 are no longer dorms ...

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## DowntownMan

> I think about half of the Cate dorms have been converted into classroom and office space.


Yes I believe most if not all has been renovated in last 10 years into faculty offices. 
Im sure long term plan does involve removing these with something replacing.

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## Pete

With Cate, I suspect they'll do a blend of housing and classroom space as they have done in the two residential colleges to the east of the towers.

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## BG918

> With Cate, I suspect they'll do a blend of housing and classroom space as they have done in the two residential colleges to the east of the towers.


That makes sense and what I've heard will happen after they finish the dorm tower replacements to the south.  

Now Huston Huffman Center needs a major upgrade and aquatics facility including indoor and outdoor pools.  It's in a great location in the middle of all of the new student housing but is outdated and smaller than OU's peer universities especially those in the SEC.

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## Pete

> Now Huston Huffman Center needs a major upgrade and aquatics facility including indoor and outdoor pools.  It's in a great location in the middle of all of the new student housing but is outdated and smaller than OU's peer universities especially those in the SEC.


There was a plan to do just that some time ago but it was never a high priority.

The fact they haven't built anything on the proposed expansion area tells me it will eventually happen.

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## David

> OKCTalk has obtained plans for the first phase of the total rebuilding of the freshman dorms at OU.
> 
> 
> 
> Funds were recently approved to demolish Adams Center, one of the three dorm towers just south of Lindsey Street.
> 
> The plans show that in place of the 12-story Adams, there will be two five-story brick buildings similar to the recently built residential colleges to the east.
> 
> In addition to new dorm rooms, each will have lounge and study areas as well as a large storm shelter.  The north building will have a coffee shop; the south a convenience store.
> ...


Always love the look of the Oklahoma standard red brick and white trim.

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## josefromtulsa

I wonder if the amount of beds in Adams will be replaced by these dorms. It doesn't seem like it since Adams had like 1,200 living in it. 

I remember spending time in my friends super suite above cains. It always smelled like chicken. Hopefully DLB Hall will be around for a while....

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## Pete

> I wonder if the amount of beds in Adams will be replaced by these dorms. It doesn't seem like it since Adams had like 1,200 living in it. 
> 
> I remember spending time in my friends super suite above cains. It always smelled like chicken. Hopefully DLB Hall will be around for a while....


All the current beds will be replaced by new ones.

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## bombermwc

It's so long overdue. I was told that the university didn't put anyone in Adams this year to prepare for this. Not sure if that's true or not. If it is, then they have plenty of capacity to complete all of the projects and then determine if they even need to replace #3. 

Bed bugs, bad HVAC, mold, etc. The places are disgusting. Hopefully when they renovated the even older ones like Cate, that they fixed of this stuff too because they were even worse.

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## Pete

Yes, Adams is currently empty and will soon be demolished.

The university bought the new Cross Center which more than off-sets the number of beds at Adams.

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