# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Moore >  The Pipeline @ Fritts Farm

## G.Walker

Big mixed use development planned south of S. 19th St., see page 12.

http://www.cityofmoore.com/sites/def...PC13_09_10.pdf

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## Plutonic Panda

This actually looks like it might be a really cool development. I just wish there wasn't so much surface parking and the residential looks kind of "blah", but hopefully thats just lack of skill to the person that rendered these photos. I think the final look will be better.

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## G.Walker

Yea, these just look like conceptual designs, hopefully the final design will be better.

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## frittsfarm

Here's an updated site plan for our project.  To answer a couple of the comments, the elevation designs are conceptual at this time.  The anchor office tenant to the n/nw of the pond is under development and further along.  The offices/residential/mixed-use structures are still being developed - in concept from the business/economics as well as in design.

We really hope to have a unique product that adds value to our development as well as the Moore community.

We still have several hurdles to jump over to get this out of the ground but we're moving as fast as we can to achieve this.

The Pipeline at Fritts Farm Site Plan - PUD -10212013-2.jpg

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## catch22

> Here's an updated site plan for our project.  To answer a couple of the comments, the elevation designs are conceptual at this time.  The anchor office tenant to the n/nw of the pond is under development and further along.  The offices/residential/mixed-use structures are still being developed - in concept from the business/economics as well as in design.
> 
> We really hope to have a unique product that adds value to our development as well as the Moore community.
> 
> We still have several hurdles to jump over to get this out of the ground but we're moving as fast as we can to achieve this.
> 
> The Pipeline at Fritts Farm Site Plan - PUD -10212013-2.jpg


Take your time and do it right. You have the opportunity to set a new standard for Moore and S OKC. A really good development here will set the tone for the future of Moore.

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## CuatrodeMayo

First thing to go will be the 2nd & 3rd levels on all the buildings.  Mark it down.

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## Mississippi Blues

> First thing to go will be the 2nd & 3rd levels on all the buildings.  *Mark it down.*


Lol, okay, I will.

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## frittsfarm

> First thing to go will be the 2nd & 3rd levels on all the buildings.  Mark it down.


Yeah. Do that. Maybe your post will inspire another wave of Dallas style McMansions offices with 10/12 pitch roofs..

Yep- that's what we're striving for. 

The market will end up determining what we will really be able to do - our goals are at least 2 stories for both north & south tracts but having 3rd stories as options for the southern tract. 

But since it sounds like you're an expert in this, please let me know how to do it.

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## Plutonic Panda

> Yeah. Do that. Maybe your post will inspire another wave of Dallas style McMansions offices with 10/12 pitch roofs..
> 
> Yep- that's what we're striving for. 
> 
> The market will end up determining what we will really be able to do - our goals are at least 2 stories for both north & south tracts but having 3rd stories as options for the southern tract. 
> 
> But since it sounds like you're an expert in this, please let me know how to do it.


OKVision4U? I'm very skeptical that you are involved in the development of Fritts Farm.

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## catch22

> Yeah. Do that. Maybe your post will inspire another wave of Dallas style McMansions offices with 10/12 pitch roofs..
> 
> Yep- that's what we're striving for. 
> 
> The market will end up determining what we will really be able to do - our goals are at least 2 stories for both north & south tracts but having 3rd stories as options for the southern tract. 
> 
> But since it sounds like you're an expert in this, please let me know how to do it.


Well he is quite the architect and has experience doing planning. So yeah... I'd say he is an expert.

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## soonermike

I  think the thing is CuatrodeMayo just came in and made this negative prediction with no reason or explanation. This on the heels of the negative start to this thread with people complaining because initial drawings weren't good enough. As someone who lives in this area, I'm very excited to see Fritts Farm doing the kind of mixed use development people on this board are always calling on developers to do. How about we at least give them a chance to get this development off the ground before proclaiming that the second and third levels will never happen. I'm not doubting anyone's expertise, just saying that there seems to be a lot of negativity about a project that at this point is not much more than some conceptual drawings.

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## bbradshaw

If this development goes through, any chance 24th St will extend to Telephone Rd?

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## frittsfarm

> OKVision4U? I'm very skeptical that you are involved in the development of Fritts Farm.


I'm not OKVision4U

Thanks.
Jason Fritts

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## frittsfarm

> If this development goes through, any chance 24th St will extend to Telephone Rd?


Actually, that's a good question.  We're unsure about the extension of 24th St - and what that looks like at the moment.

However, the bigger plan would be to tie in Fritts Boulevard (extend it south to a roundabout) and connect what would be an extended 25th Street over to Telephone Road.  There's $s involved in this, there's a high pressure gas line that has to be considered - but that is what we're considering.

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## CuatrodeMayo

> Yeah. Do that. Maybe your post will inspire another wave of Dallas style McMansions offices with 10/12 pitch roofs..
> 
> Yep- that's what we're striving for. 
> 
> The market will end up determining what we will really be able to do - our goals are at least 2 stories for both north & south tracts but having 3rd stories as options for the southern tract. 
> 
> But since it sounds like you're an expert in this, please let me know how to do it.


frittsfarm:

While I am still somewhat concerned about the final product, in light of the pleasant email I received from your father, I feel like I owe an explanation of my skepticism:

I apologize if my comments regarding your development seemed overly negative.  They were made somewhat off-the-cuff as an expression of my frustration with the lack of long-term vision among the developers in our city.  I have alluded to the "culture of cheapness" on other threads on OKCTalk that seems to permeate this city, including most local developers.  It is important to have a balance of both "quantity" and "quality", but all too often one far outweighs the other.  I realize it takes careful consideration of costs when developing projects, but the lowest-cost solution should not be the only consideration.  I did not mean to imply that you were a cheap developer looking to make fast money.
Due to my profession, I often look at projects through a dual lens (and Im not talking about glasses).

On one hand, I look at a project based on the quality of its architecture and land use.  While the planning is still quite preliminary, this project appears to have some high-quality architectural elements.   While this project also appears to have a much better density and urbanity than other suburban development projects in the region, I am not entirely comfortable with the site plan.  I realize there are storm water and parking requirements that probably prevent additional density.

On the other hand, I look at a project based on its financial viability.  This development will likely cost more per square foot as shown than if all the leasable area was on one level.  Adding a 2nd and 3rd floor will usually add considerable cost.  You will have to buy stairs, elevators, and the added cost of enhanced code requirements that come with multistory buildings.  On top of that, you will lose leasable space due to the footprint of these added items.  In Oklahoma where land is plentiful and relatively cheap, the real economic benefit of vertical development occurs in on sites with limited buildable area, such as urban areas.  Even though you gain additional leasable space by adding floors, it is offset by higher construction costs.  In a wide-open site, those costs are usually unnecessary and avoidable because you can spread the buildings out to one floor as long as parking and storm water requirements are met.

In this case, it appears to be you could build a similar amount of square footage at only one, maybe two stories, which could be much cheaper.  The parking requirements could be an issue, but you get the picture.  My original comment is based on the fact that most developers would go the 1-story route and ditch the expensive uppers levels once they realize how much they are going to cost.  I hope it is not the case here, but based on what I have seen around the city, its entirely possible.

My limited experiences in the development, design, and construction world have caused me to be very cynical on proposed projects, until constructional actually commences.  Many of my comments on OKC Talk reflect this cynicism.  I do hope this development continues to move forward as you envision.  You and your family appear to be very sincere and committed to developing a high-quality asset to the community of Moore.  Again, I apologize if my comments came across as insulting.  It was not my intention to be hurtful.

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## SouthsideSooner

Inspite of some of the previous comments, I can assure you that most of us appreciate you sharing details of your developement, Jason...

We'll be looking forward to your updates...

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## Jesseda

> Yeah. Do that. Maybe your post will inspire another wave of Dallas style McMansions offices with 10/12 pitch roofs..
> 
> Yep- that's what we're striving for. 
> 
> The market will end up determining what we will really be able to do - our goals are at least 2 stories for both north & south tracts but having 3rd stories as options for the southern tract. 
> 
> But since it sounds like you're an expert in this, please let me know how to do it.


I kind of like the two and three story building ideas, it would be neat if we had something the style of Branson Landing in that area as in how the used condos, retail, hotels etc

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## Plutonic Panda

> I'm not OKVision4U
> 
> Thanks.
> Jason Fritts


alright. It just seems weird that a developer of a multi-million dollar project would come to a forum website and then attack someone who criticized your development, that's all.

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## Goon

> alright. It just seems weird that a developer of a multi-million dollar project would come to a forum website and then attack someone who criticized your development, that's all.


Not really. This site has grown organically into something many in the construction/design industry view as regular reading. 

With the prevalance of social media and the way information is consumed by the public, I think it is much more likely Jason or someone he is affiliated with saw the project mentioned and decided to respond before this thread devolved into a one-sided manifesto against "non-urban" design.

that said, as a resident of SWOKC I'm exicted about the continued development of Fritt's farm, and am appreciative of the long-term investment Jason and his family have made to the area.

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## Zuplar

I wanted to comment in here because I visited 19th street this weekend. I do enjoy all the variety of retail that is in the area, but it has just became so congested. This has more to do with 19th street and on/off ramps of I35 than anything, but quite frankly it's terrible. Traffic gets so backed up on the service roads that it can take 20 minutes to go from Kohls on the westside, to JCPenney's on the east. Now I use that as an example because I used the service roads to get from the first to the second. Of course back tracking and going up Telephone then over and not using the service roads may be faster, but it seems that you hit about 3 more stoplights. It all just seems a jumbled mess.

I'm curious with all new projects at Fritts Farm if anything is going to be done about getting around this area. The addition of all the Retail at Fritts has dramatically increased the traffic and essentially made the situation worse. I'd like to see this area continue to have success cause I think it's got a lot of things going, but I'd hate to see it push people away because of bad traffic and congestion.

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## HangryHippo

Well, the way the highway ramps are designed coupled with the RIDICULOUS amount of curb cuts and traffic lights that cities in Oklahoma allow and you get 19th St in Moore.  It's a damn nightmare to try and navigate when there's any sort of traffic, and just a pain in the ass when there isn't any traffic.

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## catch22

Well. They developed that area strictly around the automobile. And now there is horrible congestion....

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## Plutonic Panda

> Well. They developed that area strictly around the automobile. And now there is horrible congestion....


Disney designed their parks around people and there are terrible lines you have to wait in. NYC has horrible crowds in Time Square that you have to shove your way through to get somewhere(I've never been to Times Square, but I've seen pictures). Popular areas are going to become congested no matter what. . . cars, people etc. 

Even when/if they widen the streets around Quail Springs to 6 lanes with dual left/right turn lanes, I'm sure it will become very congested at times. You can't completely solve the congestion "crisis" but you can keep traffic flowing better.

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## Plutonic Panda

> I wanted to comment in here because I visited 19th street this weekend. I do enjoy all the variety of retail that is in the area, but it has just became so congested. This has more to do with 19th street and on/off ramps of I35 than anything, but quite frankly it's terrible. Traffic gets so backed up on the service roads that it can take 20 minutes to go from Kohls on the westside, to JCPenney's on the east. Now I use that as an example because I used the service roads to get from the first to the second. Of course back tracking and going up Telephone then over and not using the service roads may be faster, but it seems that you hit about 3 more stoplights. It all just seems a jumbled mess.
> 
> I'm curious with all new projects at Fritts Farm if anything is going to be done about getting around this area. The addition of all the Retail at Fritts has dramatically increased the traffic and essentially made the situation worse. I'd like to see this area continue to have success cause I think it's got a lot of things going, but I'd hate to see it push people away because of bad traffic and congestion.


If we would add service roads all along this area and widen them to 3 lanes each direction, Texas turn around on each side, dual left turn lanes, one way, have the on/off ramps merge as opposed to intersect with traffic, dedicated right turn lanes(which I believe they already have), traffic would flow much smoother. Not saying it will completely do away with congestion, although I'm sure it would temporarily put a massive dent in it until this surrounding area is fully built out, but traffic should flow smoother. . .esp. when people become fully accustomed to it. This model has seemed to work really well on the North Dallas Tollway and 635.

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## catch22

My point was there is no design to out-smart congestion... You simply have an area built for automobile access and not very easy walking... So in order to go to Chicken Express and Target in the same trip ... You have to drive between them... Increasing congestion.

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## Plutonic Panda

> *Not really. This site has grown organically into something many in the construction/design industry view as regular reading. 
> 
> With the prevalance of social media and the way information is consumed by the public, I think it is much more likely Jason or someone he is affiliated with saw the project mentioned and decided to respond before this thread devolved into a one-sided manifesto against "non-urban" design.*
> 
> that said, as a resident of SWOKC I'm exicted about the continued development of Fritt's farm, and am appreciative of the long-term investment Jason and his family have made to the area.


I'm not saying it's weird he's on this site; I'm saying it's weird he is attacking someone who criticized his development on a forum website, which is to be expected. I too want to become a developer one day, like Jason Fritts and I wish him the best on this and I will likely support there and support him. I have nothing against him, just seemed a little fishy what the user under his name said and it arose some questions. Either way, I'll take his word for it, not trying to start anything here.

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## Plutonic Panda

> My point was there is no design to out-smart congestion... You simply have an area built for automobile access and not very easy walking... So in order to go to Chicken Express and Target in the same trip ... You have to drive between them... Increasing congestion.


Oh, I see what you mean. Makes sense in a way. I still think we can make traffic flow smoother than it is. Adding round-a-bouts on low traffic streets seems like a no brainer to me, so it would be nice to see more take this approach.

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## HangryHippo

> Oh, I see what you mean. Makes sense in a way. I still think we can make traffic flow smoother than it is. Adding round-a-bouts on low traffic streets seems like a no brainer to me, so it would be nice to see more take this approach.


By designing for the automobile, congestion becomes inevitable.  However, Oklahoma has a real gift for exacerbating such problems.

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## Plutonic Panda

> By designing for the automobile, congestion becomes inevitable.  However, Oklahoma has a real gift for exacerbating such problems.


I agree and it is almost like people here think that when a new highway is built, they are going to be the only one driving on it and can't figure out why there are others on the highway and get mad because of it lol

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## catch22

On the news this morning:

1) Software firm to build facility in this development with 150 jobs.

2) Site plan approved by Moore

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## HangryHippo

> On the news this morning:
> 
> 1) Software firm to build facility in this development with 150 jobs.
> 
> 2) Site plan approved by Moore


Any idea who the software firm is?

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## catch22

> Any idea who the software firm is?


Not sure. Hope they pay good. Hard to attract young talent from out of state to Suburbia, USA.

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## Zuplar

Moore Monthly posted this earlier.

News | Moore Monthly

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## G.Walker

The success of this development will be dependent on the architectural design, pedestrian friendliness, and the software company office development. However, if they want this to be a live, work, play environment lose some parking spaces, and don't promote as a retail destination, but as livable mixed use community.

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## seaofchange

Looking forward to this!

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## seaofchange

> Not sure. Hope they pay good. Hard to attract young talent from out of state to Suburbia, USA.


Computer-Rx. They are relocating from South OKC.

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## Just the facts

> I wanted to comment in here because I visited 19th street this weekend. I do enjoy all the variety of retail that is in the area, but it has just became so congested. This has more to do with 19th street and on/off ramps of I35 than anything, but quite frankly it's terrible. Traffic gets so backed up on the service roads that it can take 20 minutes to go from Kohls on the westside, to JCPenney's on the east. Now I use that as an example because I used the service roads to get from the first to the second. Of course back tracking and going up Telephone then over and not using the service roads may be faster, but it seems that you hit about 3 more stoplights. It all just seems a jumbled mess.
> 
> I'm curious with all new projects at Fritts Farm if anything is going to be done about getting around this area. The addition of all the Retail at Fritts has dramatically increased the traffic and essentially made the situation worse. I'd like to see this area continue to have success cause I think it's got a lot of things going, but I'd hate to see it push people away because of bad traffic and congestion.


Just curious, what do you think the solution is?  What if they had built one or two large structured parking garages, installed a grid street network, and made all the shopping into a traditional Main St so that you could park once and walk to all the stores?  I-240 rehabbers - are you paying attention?

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## Zuplar

> Just curious, what do you think the solution is?  What if they had built one or two large structured parking garages, installed a grid street network, and made all the shopping into a traditional Main St so that you could park once and walk to all the stores?  I-240 rehabbers - are you paying attention?


You know I'm not really familiar with road construction or what eases/causes road congestion, but I do know that this area seems to always be congested. I do think your idea would make it easier, the problem is much of the retail is spread out, so I'm not sure this is practical. There is around 4 different shopping areas with big parking lots that you can park in and walk to many different places, but unfortunately there isn't a one spot fits all, and I'm not sure how you could have got one.

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## Just the facts

Too bad this development couldn't have been done near Main and Broadway so it would have access to a future rail station and where on-street parking, electric, water, sewer, and streets already exist.  Think how much money that would have saved.  With a TIF in downtown Moore a shared common parking structure could have also been built.

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