# OKCpedia > General Real Estate Topics >  Oklahoma City's future skyline

## KayneMo

This is my _fantasy_ of what Oklahoma City will look like in the future:


Looking northwest.


Looking southeast.


Looking south.


Looking northeast.

Remember! It's only a fantasy.  :Wink:

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## soonerliberal

That's really cool.  One day...

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## Thunder

Those pictures look so much better than driving by on I-40.

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## dmoor82

I dont see why not in 20-30 years!

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## rag451

So long as they build the roads and infrastructure to support the growth, why not?  :Kewlpic:

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## lasomeday

Somebody loves Sketchup!

Did you download the existing buildings from somewhere?

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## KayneMo

Haha, I sure do!
I made the existing buildings myself.  :Smile:  The only buildings I downloaded are City Hall, the library, OKC Arena, the Museum of Art, and Crystal Bridge. Architect5311 provided me Devon Energy Center, but I re-did the whole tower except for the base.

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## lasomeday

Wow, looks great!  I have done a few towns in Oklahoma in Sketchup, but not OKC. 

I like your downtown, but I see it sprawling a bit more......

Maybe some skyscrapers along the river and some taller ones in the Med District or a few in midtown...

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## theparkman81

> This is my _fantasy_ of what Oklahoma City will look like in the future:
> 
> 
> Looking northwest.
> 
> 
> Looking southeast.
> 
> 
> ...


I think it looks freaking awesome, I hope that our skyline can be like that in the future.

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## KayneMo

> Wow, looks great!  I have done a few towns in Oklahoma in Sketchup, but not OKC. 
> 
> I like your downtown, but I see it sprawling a bit more......
> 
> Maybe some skyscrapers along the river and some taller ones in the Med District or a few in midtown...


I can also see the Northwest Business District getting more and taller highrises.

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## KayneMo

> I think it looks freaking awesome, I hope that our skyline can be like that in the future.


Thanks! Hopefully within a few years, right? Lol.

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## lasomeday

Yeah, I am hoping our downtown highrises explode kind of like Austin and Charlotte.

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## theparkman81

> Thanks! Hopefully within a few years, right? Lol.


Yeah I hope so too, hopefully before I turn 50 years old. LOL.

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## KayneMo

My vision is based as if the Cox were demolished and the new convention center was built adjacent to the Skirvin, which I favor.

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## CaptDave

Very nice  - I wonder what the metro OKC population would be to support that kind of building explosion?

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## dmoor82

^^I'm guessing OKC's metro population might have to double!

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## KayneMo

I would guess around 4-5 million.
The rest of the state would have to move to the metro, and then some, lol!

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## dmoor82

^^If only half or even a third of your fantasy skyline came true within the next 10-20 years,I would be more than happy!

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## ljbab728

> ^^I'm guessing OKC's metro population might have to double!


Actually it would only take a few thousand more people working downtown to fill that many buildings.  That doesn't require a huge population increase, just the right companies either wanting to expand or relocate.

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## dmoor82

> Actually it would only take a few thousand more people working downtown to fill that many buildings. That doesn't require a huge population increase, just the right companies either wanting to expand or relocate.


A few more thousand people to fill 10+ new skyscrapers/highrises? at least in this pic!

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## HOT ROD

using Devon as an example, 2000 people. none of your buildings are as tall or big.

but even if you used 2000 as the baseline for 10 buildings, that's only 20000 people.

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## dmoor82

> using Devon as an example, 2000 people. none of your buildings are as tall or big.
> 
> but even if you used 2000 as the baseline for 10 buildings, that's only 20000 people.


So what year would this be possible in?I know it's only 20,000 people but that is a HUGE dt workforce gain and residence gain,and it would take decades to achieve,unless OKC had some type of Austin or Cahrlotte type boom!

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## JOHNINSOKC

I definitely think a Austin or Charlotte type of boom is very realistic for OKC in the coming years as the city gets more national attentionand job growth.

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## Pete

Here's how we get there:

American Fidelity builds 40-story corporate HQMidFirst builds 50-story corporate HQ plus spec space for other tenantsDevon helps build 40-story luxury condosHotel operator builds 35-story convention hotelDeveloper builds 40-story office tower for smaller companies that what to be part of new, thriving downtownMore spec condos, hotels and office towers follow, ala Charlotte and Austin

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## king183

> Here's how we get there:
> 
> American Fidelity builds 40-story corporate HQMidFirst builds 50-story corporate HQ plus spec space for other tenantsDevon helps build 40-story luxury condosHotel operator builds 35-story convention hotelDeveloper builds 40-story office tower for smaller companies that what to be part of new, thriving downtownMore spec condos, hotels and office towers follow, ala Charlotte and Austin


Didn't MidFirst announce they were building a new headquarters elsewhere in north OKC?

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## G.Walker

^^^I only think two on the list is actually realistic, and that is a 30-35 convention hotel, and a American Fidelity skyscraper.

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## Pete

> Didn't MidFirst announce they were building a new headquarters elsewhere in north OKC?


No.

After a detailed rendering of a large building near Broadway Extension surfaced a couple of years ago, everyone speculated it must be MidFirst.  But that proved just to be rumors.

Jeff Records (CEO) is an investor in the Thunder and used to have his offices downtown.  It also sounds pretty definite MidFirst is going to put it's name on the OKC Arena.

And finally, they are the second largest bank in Oklahoma, very well capitalized and growing rapidly.  They may choose to build elsewhere but I think it's only a matter of time before they have to do something.

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## Pete

I should have added to my list of possibilities:

SandRidge builts new 50-story towerContinental out-grows old Devon building and builds 40-story towerLarge company relocates to OKC and builds 40-story tower

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## king183

> No.
> 
> After a detailed rendering of a large building near Broadway Extension surfaced a couple of years ago, everyone speculated it must be MidFirst.  But that proved just to be rumors.
> 
> Jeff Records (CEO) is an investor in the Thunder and used to have his offices downtown.  It also sounds pretty definite MidFirst is going to put it's name on the OKC Arena.
> 
> And finally, they are the second largest bank in Oklahoma, very well capitalized and growing rapidly.  They may choose to build elsewhere but I think it's only a matter of time before they have to do something.


Thanks, Pete.  That's what I was thinking of.  Good to know they are, therefore, still a realistic contender for a new downtown location.

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## Pete

As a point of comparison, let's look to Charlotte for what can happen after a huge building is added to the skyline.

When the 870 foot BofA Plaza was finished in 1992 (Devon will be 850), Charlotte had five buildings over 30 floors -- exactly the same as OKC before Devon.  Previously, their tallest building was 588 feet as opposed to ours (Chase) at 500.

Since BofA Plaza opened Charlotte has added 10 (!) buildings of 25 floors or more including 47, 50 and 54.


Another parallel:  in 1990 Charlotte's MSA was about 1.16 million; in 2010 OKC's is about 1.25 million.

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## BoulderSooner

> As a point of comparison, let's look to Charlotte for what can happen after a huge building is added to the skyline.
> 
> When the 870 foot BofA Plaza was finished in 1992 (Devon will be 850), Charlotte had five buildings over 30 floors -- exactly the same as OKC before Devon.  Previously, their tallest building was 588 feet as opposed to ours (Chase) at 500.
> 
> Since BofA Plaza opened Charlotte has added 10 (!) buildings of 25 floors or more including 47, 50 and 54.
> 
> 
> Another parallel:  in 1990 Charlotte's MSA was about 1.16 million; in 2010 OKC's is about 1.25 million.


that is a great comp ... if starting in 2012 we add a 25 story building every 2 years for the next 20 everyone will be amazed ..  and our downtown will grow by miles

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## SOONER8693

I'd like to get some of what you all are smokin.

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## stlokc

So the comps between OKC today and Charlotte 20 years ago are similiar. What did Charlotte do to enable this growth? Did the city actively pursue specific companies? (I know they are a huge banking center) What did they offer in the way of incentives? They aren't that far from Atlanta, the hub of the southeast (similiar to Dallas being a hub of our part of the country). Has our chamber/city government taken a look at what was involved to make that growth happen? It's very intriguing to me, because I have been to Charlotte and, while it's very pleasant, it doesn't seem light-years ahead of OKC.

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## jmarkross

> So the comps between OKC today and Charlotte 20 years ago are similiar. What did Charlotte do to enable this growth? Did the city actively pursue specific companies? (I know they are a huge banking center) What did they offer in the way of incentives? They aren't that far from Atlanta, the hub of the southeast (similiar to Dallas being a hub of our part of the country). Has our chamber/city government taken a look at what was involved to make that growth happen? It's very intriguing to me, because I have been to Charlotte and, while it's very pleasant, it doesn't seem light-years ahead of OKC.


It IS a remarkably beautiful state.

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## dmoor82

> I'd like to get some of what you all are smokin.


^^Ha,some of that fantasy dank!

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## Pete

One huge and obvious difference is that Charlotte is home to Bank of America, the largest financial company in the U.S. and the 4th largest of any type.  It's more than 10 times larger than OKC's largest private employers, Devon & CHK.  The growth of Charlotte paralleled B of A's growth, as they acquired tons of other companies during the financial melt-down and consolidated most of them to North Carolina.  Charlotte has 8 Fortune 500 companies and OKC & Tulsa only have two each.

In addition to the huge economic impact of BofA, I think Charlotte just emerged as one of the great second-tier up-and-coming American communities, as it was seen as an alternative to places like Atlanta, Miami and other eastern cities.

There has long been the pattern of these next-big-thing communities in the U.S.:  Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Denver, Jacksonville, Tampa, Orlando, Austin, Portland, Seattle, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Nashville, Salt Lake City...  They've all taken a turn in making the jump from third-tier to second-tier and beyond.  It's because the population shifts towards warmer, nicer areas that still have a decent cost of living and ease of life but enough size to offer good amenities.

So, what cities are next?  Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Phoenix and others that were once considered the hot places are now suffering from the same problems that drove so many transplants to them:  over-population, terrible traffic, high cost of living, lower quality of life.  Who will be the next Charlotte or Austin?

There are some good comeback stories in Pittsburgh and several other rust-belt towns...  And places like Indianapolis and Kansas City have done well.  But they are not growing as rapidly as all the boom towns mentioned and it's hard to imagine they ever will.  The trend has always been southern and western.

Who is a better candidate than Oklahoma City?

Yes, Oklahoma is not the most progressive place and yes, our local legislature is backwards and embarrassing...  But, again, Charlotte was seen in generally the same light and in some ways it was worse off, with it's roots in the confederacy and the tobacco industry.

I'm not saying Austin and Charlotte and Dallas aren't going to continue to grow, perhaps at even faster rates.  I'm just saying Americans (and large companies and entrepreneurs) are always on the look-out for the next hot town and it's hard to make a better case than OKC -- especially since all of the recent progress has been made without truly explosive population growth.  That could be in the immediate future and that's when a massively expanded skyline becomes a real possibility.

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## G.Walker

Charlotte is a major financial banking centre, a majority of the skyscrapers recently built in Charlotte were either developed or financed by Bank of America, Wachovia, or Wells Fargo

Out of the current top ten tallest skyscrapers in Charlotte, 6 were built by either Bank of America or Wells Fargo

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## dmoor82

just imagine if OKC would have beaten out Indy way back when!Should a big F500 company relocate to OKC it would do wonders!

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## BDK

If we're piling on the Charlotte comparisons, the Hornets played their first season in Charlotte in '88-'89 in the period leading up to their economic growth. I still remember Larry Johnson and Muggsy Bogues playing on that team in the early '90s. National visibility resulting from the team may be a small but real factor.

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## KayneMo

> As a point of comparison, let's look to Charlotte for what can happen after a huge building is added to the skyline.
> 
> When the 870 foot BofA Plaza was finished in 1992 (Devon will be 850), Charlotte had five buildings over 30 floors -- exactly the same as OKC before Devon.  Previously, their tallest building was 588 feet as opposed to ours (Chase) at 500.
> 
> Since BofA Plaza opened Charlotte has added 10 (!) buildings of 25 floors or more including 47, 50 and 54.
> 
> 
> Another parallel:  in 1990 Charlotte's MSA was about 1.16 million; in 2010 OKC's is about 1.25 million.


Those are some awesome parallels! Kind of creepy too.... lol.

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## benman

> One huge and obvious difference is that Charlotte is home to Bank of America, the largest financial company in the U.S. and the 4th largest of any type.  It's more than 10 times larger than OKC's largest private employers, Devon & CHK.  The growth of Charlotte paralleled B of A's growth, as they acquired tons of other companies during the financial melt-down and consolidated most of them to North Carolina.  Charlotte has 8 Fortune 500 companies and OKC & Tulsa only have two each.
> 
> In addition to the huge economic impact of BofA, I think Charlotte just emerged as one of the great second-tier up-and-coming American communities, as it was seen as an alternative to places like Atlanta, Miami and other eastern cities.
> 
> There has long been the pattern of these next-big-thing communities in the U.S.:  Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Denver, Jacksonville, Tampa, Orlando, Austin, Portland, Seattle, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Nashville, Salt Lake City...  They've all taken a turn in making the jump from third-tier to second-tier and beyond.  It's because the population shifts towards warmer, nicer areas that still have a decent cost of living and ease of life but enough size to offer good amenities.
> 
> So, what cities are next?  Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Phoenix and others that were once considered the hot places are now suffering from the same problems that drove so many transplants to them:  over-population, terrible traffic, high cost of living, lower quality of life.  Who will be the next Charlotte or Austin?
> 
> There are some good comeback stories in Pittsburgh and several other rust-belt towns...  And places like Indianapolis and Kansas City have done well.  But they are not growing as rapidly as all the boom towns mentioned and it's hard to imagine they ever will.  The trend has always been southern and western.
> ...



Well put, Pete. I completely agree about population moving this way. Its a fact that the population is trending more southwest and theres a much bigger desire to live in the southern U.S. 

The up and coming generation is larger than the baby boomers who contributed to the booming economy and population growth we have seen in past years. People are for sure going to get tired of the traffic, cost of living, etc. in some of these boom cities we are seeing now. Dallas has had extreme growth, but once people realize it is out of hand I think OKC will be a front runner for roughly the same quality of life without all the troubles. It should be very interesting to watch. 

Times might be tough now (and might even get worse) but I really believe such a large up and coming generation is going to drive the economy to levels we are all used to. OKC will be poised to benefit from all this excitement. The construction industry is down and out, but now might be the time to dive into it and get all your ducks in a line before things really take off.

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## HOT ROD

well said benman,

First To Market! Capitalizes.

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## stlokc

I am in love with Pete's and BenMan's optimism. Really I am. But I have to admit, at this point, I share GWalker's skepticism. Big projects require big commitments, especially in this economy, and Pete's post about the city's largest employers is most instructive. Only two are in any position to build in the next ten years, and despite rumors and "love of the city," what hard info do we have on American Fidelity or MidFirst? I personally think we might wind up ruing the day if American Fidelity ever leaves 23rd and Classen, because that would leave a terrible hole in a vibrant inner city neighborhood, and MidFirst is even more tenuous, it seems. 

I just see a lot of "the world is moving southwest" and "OKC makes a case for a Tier-2 city" and that is really vague. Feels  like wishful thinking.

As far as these 40-story condo dreams, don't forget OKC is a town where it's hard to fill a collection of townhomes in Deep Deuce because people think they are too expensive. Who are the 500 heavy hitters who are going to fill a 40-story condo building? Pablum like "people want to be in a thriving downtown" also sounds like wishful thinking. 

The best bet for anything beyond a hotel and American Fidelity is to recruit an out-of-state HQ. How many companies of that caliber really up and move their entire HQ? One a year in the whole country? Even fewer in this economy?

Are there really lots of small offices clamoring for some of that space "if only we had more contiguous Class A space?" Or are the small offices building ranch-house buildings on Memorial Road? 


As to the B of A comparison re: Charlotte, is our best bet spinoffs in oil and gas? Maybe. Maybe. But I'll believe it when I see it. Hopefully I'm wrong. Hopefully there are huge under-the-radar negotiations going on as we speak.

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## stlokc

So my post is a little bit of a downer. Let me reiterate once again that I yearn to be proven wrong.

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## stlokc

Let me make one other observation. A healthy downtown does not require massive numbers of skyscrapers. The emerging creative cluster at 9th and Broadway is every bit as nice a turn-of-events as a huge skyscraper. Where I do see growth in inner OKC is creative infill of smaller buildings throughout MidTown. I could easily see biotech and medical spinoffs wanting locations between the health center and St. Anthony's. I could see more conversions of old warehouses in Automobile Alley. Hopefully the Mercy site will spur development of four and five story apartment projects throughout that area. With street-level retail. If that whole area became gentrified and built out with projects for smaller users that create thriving, walkable streetscapes, that would actually be healthier for the city than a couple of 50 story behemoths. And that really is doable in this decade.

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## ljbab728

> and MidFirst is even more tenuous, it seems.


Why would you say that?  Do you have some inside information about problems with MidFirst?

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## stlokc

No. I don't know a thing about MidFirst. I'm only saying that the fact that Jeff Records is an investor in the Thunder and has a growing bank doesn't mean that he's on the verge of going downtown. I'm not saying he's not. It's just kind of a leap to connect "growing bank" with "building downtown." It feels like more wishful thinking. Have they ever stated publicly that they would like to be downtown? Have they made statements about scouting building sites? Pete says "He's got to do something at some point." Do we know this is true? In the 21st century, you can grow your employee numbers through work-at-home arrangements, farming people to existing locations, etc. Again, I don't know any more than anybody. I just think a lot of us (and sometimes myself) jump to conclusions when we don't really know the facts of the matter. Some of us assume that downtown officing is the ultimate goal "if only the right pieces were in place." Building downtown is not the primary motivation for everyone's business decisions. Aubrey builds and builds on Western. He could have made the plunge downtown when Devon did years ago. He didn't. It doesntvmean he doesn't support the city. I have no idea what Jeff Records' motivations are. None of us do. Unless someone knows something they aren't saying.

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## ljbab728

> No. I don't know a thing about MidFirst. I'm only saying that the fact that Jeff Records is an investor in the Thunder and has a growing bank doesn't mean that he's on the verge of going downtown. I'm not saying he's not. It's just kind of a leap to connect "growing bank" with "building downtown." It feels like more wishful thinking. Have they ever stated publicly that they would like to be downtown? Have they made statements about scouting building sites? Pete says "He's got to do something at some point." Do we know this is true? In the 21st century, you can grow your employee numbers through work-at-home arrangements, farming people to existing locations, etc. Again, I don't know any more than anybody. I just think a lot of us (and sometimes myself) jump to conclusions when we don't really know the facts of the matter. Some of us assume that downtown officing is the ultimate goal "if only the right pieces were in place." Building downtown is not the primary motivation for everyone's business decisions. Aubrey builds and builds on Western. He could have made the plunge downtown when Devon did years ago. He didn't. It doesntvmean he doesn't support the city. I have no idea what Jeff Records' motivations are. None of us do. Unless someone knows something they aren't saying.


That may be true but it doesn't justify saying that Midfirst is more tenuous than American Fidelity.   Any new tower construction in the downtown area could be classified as tenuous until it happens.

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## stlokc

Exactly JibJab. It's all tenuous. That's why I think these threads get way, way, way out in front of reality. But it is fun to dream.

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## Pete

stlokc, the whole point of this thread is to dream and let our imagine run a little wild.  My comments aren't a prediction of what I think will happen; just the best-case scenario to reach a vastly expanded downtown.

But they are based somewhat in reality: actual companies, growth patterns, previously stated plans, and assets.  Also, I've attempted to point out how many cities have reached a tipping point and gone from growing to exploding.  OKC has been humming along at about 12-14% population growth per decade but that seems to be building and when you hit 20%+, big things start to happen.

Oklahoma City is unique because it has the capacity (area for housing, plenty of land everywhere, highway infrastructure, lots of area downtown and nearby) to absorb a tremendous amount of growth.  I wouldn't be surprised to see that growth rate pick up dramatically in the next 5-10 years.

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## PhiAlpha

Don't forget, the current midfirst location is within the boundaries of the chesapeake empire. CHK already owns almost everything around it, so midfirst likely has a buyer if it wants to move. Defintely wouldnt be much of a surprise to see those buildings painted black with a CHK logo on them in a few years. First fidelity isnt far from CHK either, a little less likely but still possible given that they just bought the atrium towers on Hefner parkway.

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## Pete

One other thing...  In just a couple of years downtown will go from being a huge construction zone to vastly improved on many fronts.  Here's a quick list of what will come on-line between now and then.  The sum total of all this will be extremely compelling to anyone looking for a spot to grow their business or to build a hotel or residences:

Project 180 will be complete as will the new Myriad Gardens.  Virtually every street and several parks will have been completely redone and greatly improved and the new cafe and all other features will be done in the park.Devon Tower, rotunda, park, garden building and auditorium will be finished.  Restaurant/banquet facilities at the top of the tower, public space in the rotunda and garden wing, restaurants, retail and beautiful open space.Colcord Hotel expanded and beautiful new restaurant with outdoor patio facing Myriad Gardens.Ford Center renovations / expansion including many new amenities.Old I-40 removed.  New boulevard underway.SandRidge complex complete.Continental moved in.Convention center underway or even complete.Aloft hotel and lots of new apartments in Deep Deuce.New Pitman hotel in Bricktown.Lots of new development in Midtown, including Mercy site.Central Park area cleared with basic landscape.Skydance Bridge installed.

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## HOT ROD

Stl, I appreciate your points in trying to level-set everyone but I need to point out a few holes in your analysis/thinking

in all fairness, OKC has a diverse economy and if you even think twice about what you wrote, you might consider rewriting it. You said that it appears OKC is depending only upon oil and gas, but American Fidelity is insurance and MidFirst is in Finance. Both are large (and growing) OKC companies that many suspect may like to build downtown and be part of the synergy that's going on. ...

Another point, since you brought up Charlotte and B o A. What were most if not all of the new buildings that went up in Charlotte? Weren't they also in the finance industry, same as BoA? Why would it be bad if more Oil companies wanted to build towers in OKC? even though, so far that isn't the case yet...

Point is, OKC has growing companies that need more space. AF has already said as much, and surely if AF does indeed build a tower downtown like many suspect, you would think there would be a push by OTHER OKC companies to take on that AAA space that AF is leaving behind. You know, OKC has more than just oil companies as there are numerous middle companies that could take on space and may want to be part of the inner city renaissance once/if AF vacates. 

MidFirst Financial is being pushed out of Chesapeake City, so it is only 'natural' to think they also might want to move downtown - at least take on the space vacated by Devon and may eventually also want their own tower. ...

I dont think some of these 'dreams' are that far off base, particularly when you consider the points you brought up as evaluation criteria.

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## HOT ROD

Pete, you left out a few things:

must assume continued retail infill in AAlley, midtown, Film Row, Bricktown, Deep Deuce, and the CBD

also, SandRidge and CC likely will not be finished within the next few years, but to your point - downtown as a whole will likely have a new fresh face in the beginning of 2013; and that MUST be a huge attraction for businesses and new residents to locate there - otherwise, why are we doing it?

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## Pete

Back to MidFirst, they are actually split between two buildings, MidFirst Plaza and Three Grand Park.

One and Two Grand Park are owned by Chesapeake and are located between the two MidFirst buildings -- you really can't even walk from one to the other.  And MidFirst owns some land just north of MidFirst Plaza that is completely surrounded by CHK properties.

They are are very big operation....  More than $10 billion in assets, one of the 100 largest banks in the U.S. and the 3rd largest privately-owned bank.  They don't get a lot of press because they aren't publicly traded.  Plus, they are very conservative, which is why they have remained strong throughout the banking crisis.

In 2009, they acquired a couple of Phoenix-area banks and now have over 20 locations in that community.


I could see Chesapeake buying these two buildings plus the land to complete acquiring just about everything west of the RR tracks, north of I-44, south of 63rd and east of Grand.  Then the MidFirst/MidLand companies could consolidate to a large building downtown.

The MidFirst properties are in yellow below, CHK in blue:

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## PhiAlpha

> Back to MidFirst, they are actually split between two buildings, MidFirst Plaza and Three Grand Park.
> 
> One and Two Grand Park are owned by Chesapeake and are located between the two MidFirst buildings -- you really can't even walk from one to the other.  And MidFirst owns some land just north of MidFirst Plaza that is completely surrounded by CHK properties.
> 
> They are are very big operation....  More than $10 billion in assets, one of the 100 largest banks in the U.S. and the 3rd largest privately-owned bank.  They don't get a lot of press because they aren't publicly traded.  Plus, they are very conservative, which is why they have remained strong throughout the banking crisis.
> 
> In 2009, they acquired a couple of Phoenix-area banks and now have over 20 locations in that community.
> 
> 
> ...


It looks like they are taking part of the roof off of the building on the left. Could be to make it look more like Chesapeake's buildings? Those two are definitely the last dominoes to fall. Should be interesting to see how long it takes

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## Pete

BTW, MidFirst CEO Jeff Records heads a group that owns Nichols Hills Tower in the parking lot of NH Plaza.  It's common knowledge that CHK wants to acquire that building because the own everything surrounding it and want to completely renovate the whole area.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jeff and Aubrey don't already have a handshake agreement for all these properties.

But of course, MidFirst would have to build a new home first.

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## dmoor82

Pete,What odds would you give that there would be another skyscraper proposed in the next 5 or 10 years?I'm more than willing to bet OKC see's another one,probably not Devon size!

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## dmoor82

Wasnt there a rendering from some company about a year or so ago,saying proposed N.OKC tower?I seem to remember rumors that tenant was to be Mid-First!Here it is

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## Pete

Yes, I found that rendering on the web a couple of years ago and I think MidFirst may have been kicking the idea around (unsubstantiated) but nothing ever materialized.


As far as a new tower downtown in the next 5-10 years, I think there's a 93.7325% chance we'll see at least one building 30 floors or higher and maybe two or three of that size.

As soon as the financial problems settle down nationwide, you'll start to see more construction, even of speculative space.

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## dmoor82

Thank's for the reply!LOL 93.7325% let's just round that up to 94%!

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## KayneMo

> Wasnt there a rendering from some company about a year or so ago,saying proposed N.OKC tower?I seem to remember rumors that tenant was to be Mid-First!Here it is


This is the first I've heard about this! Did this project never materialize? Or is it still planned to be built?

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## Pete

No, nothing ever came of it.

It was from an architecture firm in Edmond and may have just been them having some fun without really having a specific client.

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## BDK

Hopefully with Devon going up and MAPS 3, projects like that will be more along the lines of I-235/I-40, rather than I-44/Broadway.

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## SkyWestOKC

Going to do some connecting of dots. Pure speculation.

There have been a few rumors on this forum of Aubrey and CHK wanting to do some kind of building downtown, despite the campus. They want the MidFirst properties. What if they want to build speculative space, under an agreement to lease the majority of it to MidFirst as a deal to get the two I-44 properties? Just tossing the idea out there that would justify why some have heard CHK rumors downtown.

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## CaptDave

^^ Interesting speculation though and entirely plausible.

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## PhiAlpha

They could also renovate 1st national. It was a bank building at one time and seems to have plenty of space. Probably less likely than them building a new tower but possible

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## David Pollard

Seems doubtful to me: floor heights are too small and, from what I read earlier, the actual renovation cost would probably exceed the cost of a new building of similar size.

Besides, I think that the tone has been set now with new buildings being the benchmark in the city for office space.

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## jmarkross

The key here in OKC is natural gas and it's production and movement and distribution systems. Follow those corporations and you'll get the best information. OKC is/will be the centrally located gas hub of North America. Many things are happeming below the surface...and about to be revealed. The big kick is in electric power generation and transportation systems--trucks, autos. Of course--this is all old news...but..._things are going to be happening fast--real soon..._

----------


## UnFrSaKn

I think Steve has a bit of a scoop on SandRidge building a new tower around 300-400 ft. Somewhat of a rumor I just read on Facebook from a person at Dolese.

----------


## Dustin

> I think Steve has a bit of a scoop on SandRidge building a new tower around 300-400 ft. Somewhat of a rumor I just read on Facebook from a person at Dolese.


Saw that as well

----------


## Pete

I bet SandRidge is at least coming up with conceptual plans to add a new tower so they can move on it if and when they need the space.  They have a ways to go to fill their tower and the soon-to-be-renovated Braniff Building, but then again it can take 2-3 years to get something planned and built.

It may even go to the east of the tower, as there have been strong hints that they plan to raze the parking structure that was directly behind the old India Temple building.  That would also mean building out a couple of lots just north up Broadway for parking structures.

----------


## UnFrSaKn

Let's hope their public relations are far improved by the time it ever happens, or I won't point a camera near it unless it's in the skyline.

----------


## G.Walker

> I think Steve has a bit of a scoop on SandRidge building a new tower around 300-400 ft. Somewhat of a rumor I just read on Facebook from a person at Dolese.


Something is in the works, Steve just mentioned that we are likely to get a new mid to high-rise soon, on his blog...

----------


## UnFrSaKn

Yeah, it was about that blog entry. 

Link

----------


## king183

> I think Steve has a bit of a scoop on SandRidge building a new tower around 300-400 ft. Somewhat of a rumor I just read on Facebook from a person at Dolese.


This isn't a rumor. This is something Tom Ward has been open about. He plans on building a new tower sooner rather than later.  Not sure how tall, but it will be substantial.

----------


## dmoor82

Like I said in the past I live next door to a crane operator that works at the Devon site and he told me a few months ago that another tower was to be proposed soon!Hopefully it's something totaly different than what you guys are talking about!

----------


## UnFrSaKn

Ran across this...

Smith and Gill win competition for supertall tower in China 

Speaking of shattering skylines. This is in Wuhan, China.

----------


## SkyWestOKC

Maybe Steve was hinting at the convention center hotel?

----------


## G.Walker

> Maybe Steve was hinting at the convention center hotel?


Why would he hint about that? We all know that we will eventually be getting a high rise convention hotel...

----------


## SkyWestOKC

That is my point.

----------


## maestro6

Steve elaborated on his OKC Central post (in the comments section) an hour or so ago. He addresses hotel possibilities as well as office towers, and even residential. I hope his hunches are on target.

----------


## sroberts24

I know I am always very optimistic but to think that there could be a few of high-rises going up in the next 10 years is amazing, somewhat like the 80’s boom but hopefully better (already better with Devon) but without the final outcome.  

-	Devon
-	Sandridge
-	Convention Hotel
-	Preftakes?
-	Dowell?
-	I’m sure Centennial will do some kind of updates or eventually build something if there projected growth comes to be. 
-	Any other private developments that will take place as spin off from Project 180 as well as all the other development

Also with all of those companies growing and building and moving downtown, there will be an even bigger need for housing which is perfect opportunity for developers to build high-rise apartments.  

 All wishful thinking I know but why not?

----------


## OKCisOK4me

> I think Steve has a bit of a scoop on SandRidge building a new tower around 300-400 ft. Somewhat of a rumor I just read on Facebook from a person at Dolese.


I'm the person on Facebook that mentioned that ;-)  Cannot reveal the Dolese source though...

----------


## okcRE

here is a copy of Hod Rod's post on skyscrapercity.com




> Originally Posted by Hot Rod View Post
> just for fyi, SandRidge already has announced a new highrise for their campus - in addition to the new mid-rise that will be built in Kerr Park that will be their fitness and daycare center, and the retrofit/expansion of the Braniff Building.
> 
> For the life of some of us, we could not figure out why they tore down all of those buildings on the campus - because at the time they didn't say there would be replacements. but now, Tom Ward (ceo) has said they do plan to add more highrises - he didn't say how tall but I suspect something in the 20's range.
> 
> MidFirst Financial is almost a given in my opinion - given they are maxed out at their current space near the Classen/Nichols Hills area, Chesapeake has already bought everything surrounding them, except their two buildings (that are separated by a chesapeake building). Expect for a highrise to be built somewhere for MidFirst and/or at least their absorbing Devon's vacated space.
> 
> Continental Resources has purchased Mid America tower (devon's old hq) which is 320,000 sq feet. They expect all 250 employees to be there next year, and they expect to triple in size within 5 years, so they are thinking now about a new building OR absorbing all of Devon's vacated space (again, if they get it then MidFirst would need to build new or vice versa).
> 
> ...

----------


## MDot

I don't know where else to post this and I didn't want to start a new thread just for this. I read on another forum (City-Data I believe) that there was a very loose proposal going around some local Architecture Firms of a new building around the size of Devon that would call for a mixed use hotel/office. Has anybody heard anything about this and if it's true or is it just another rumor?

----------


## OKCisOK4me

I don't know, but that would be awesome!

----------


## dankrutka

> I don't know where else to post this and I didn't want to start a new thread just for this. I read on another forum (City-Data I believe) that there was a very loose proposal going around some local Architecture Firms of a new building around the size of Devon that would call for a mixed use hotel/office. Has anybody heard anything about this and if it's true or is it just another rumor?


If anyone had any knowledge of this it would be all over this board. It would be awesome, but if there was anything even close to firm it would have leaked by now.

----------


## MDot

> If anyone had any knowledge of this it would be all over this board. It would be awesome, but if there was anything even close to firm it would have leaked by now.


That's what I was thinking, which is why I asked cause I hadn't heard anything besides that one post. I'm just gonna play this as another rumor until I see something solid.

----------


## Thunder

The concrete company working on the Devon Tower are currently having workers discussing the next plan for mega skyscraper.  They know, but people on here keep brushing the info off.  Just expect one very soon.  Just you watch, sometime next year, there will be an announcement.  We can only hope it will be higher than 844 feet.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

If it truly exists...that being something beyond a rumor, you can best bet that it will be shorter than 844.

----------


## kevinpate

I'd applaud three new 300 foot bldgs louder than one new 900 foot bldg.

----------


## Thunder

> I'd applaud three new 300 foot bldgs louder than one new 900 foot bldg.


That will be embarrassing for OKC.  Chase is much taller than 300.  We are in an era where skyscrapers should be exceeding 1,000 ft every time.

----------


## stlokc

I agree with Kevin Pate. I don't know why people get so hung up on height. I'd like to see more infill space taken up with construction. I'd much rather see several smaller buildings than another mammoth tower. Heck, I'd rather see five or six new ten story buildings dotting the present vacant land in the north part of downtown than another Devon Tower. I look at other downtowns and am more impressed with unbroken blocks of streetscape that add life to larger geographic areas. Thinking of Washington DC as I write this...

----------


## MDot

Actually I was thinking more of St. Louis while reading that. I agree with Kevin Pate as well, although I would like to see a few more skyscrapers around the size of Devon, maybe one or two taller, in my lifetime.

----------


## dankrutka

I agree more infill with smaller towers would be fine, but I'd like to see two more 600ft+ towers at some point just to balance out the skyline. Of course, buildings aren't built to balance things out, but it'd be nice.

----------


## wschnitt

I hope any future towers or buildings stay on the block they have and do not force a street closure. 

I believe that the more complicated and difficult it is to get around a city, the worse off it is. 

Appeasing a company/project and letting them close a street is nice for new construction, but in the long run is terrible.

----------


## Thunder

wschnitt, its for the rotunda! The rotunda!!!

----------


## Just the facts

> I hope any future towers or buildings stay on the block they have and do not force a street closure. 
> 
> I believe that the more complicated and difficult it is to get around a city, the worse off it is. 
> 
> Appeasing a company/project and letting them close a street is nice for new construction, but in the long run is terrible.


I am pretty sure the era of 'super block' is over.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

> I hope any future towers or buildings stay on the block they have and do not force a street closure. 
> 
> I believe that the more complicated and difficult it is to get around a city, the worse off it is. 
> 
> Appeasing a company/project and letting them close a street is nice for new construction, but in the long run is terrible.


Considering Project 180 is funded by the Devon TIF, I will find another route and appreciate what Devon Energy is doing for the city.

----------


## wschnitt

I am not saying anything bad about Devon.  I am saying the more difficult a city is to get around, the less likely people will be to come.  Do you disagree?

Look at the torn up streets downtown.  Do you think that has turned people away?

----------


## wschnitt

> I am pretty sure the era of 'super block' is over.


I hope so.  Cities that have multiple blocks to spare for a project are not healthy cities to start.  Look at Detroit.  They have at least 4 blocks for every project.

----------


## wschnitt

I do not think this is that bad because Harvey did not go through to start, but I think it is bad policy.

----------


## MDot

> I am not saying anything bad about Devon.  I am saying the more difficult a city is to get around, the less likely people will be to come.  Do you disagree?
> 
> Look at the torn up streets downtown.  Do you think that has turned people away?


I do agree with you that it makes it more difficult for visitors for the time being and to answer your question, yes it has turned people away with all the construction. No offense, but it's a little short sighted to be concerned with the present so much and not try to think of what is to come. In other words, think about 2015 and all the people who will be welcome to come Downtown with all these current construction projects wrapping up or completely done, and a very high percentage will be of the ones that decided not to go Downtown because of all the current construction. Not being critical of you wschnitt, just trying to stay on a positive note with the thing that is changing the face of the Urban Core of Oklahoma City. :-)

----------


## mcca7596

Short blocks are essential and I agree that it would have been great if Harvey had been opened up. It would draw people from the Myriad Gardens north into the heart of downtown.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

> I am not saying anything bad about Devon.  I am saying the more difficult a city is to get around, the less likely people will be to come.  Do you disagree?
> 
> Look at the torn up streets downtown.  Do you think that has turned people away?


I will agree that it turns people away from downtown (local residents I know for certain cause that includes me), but how many visitors know of websites like ODOT or here that are going to give them a heads up about dodging certain streets downtown. They'll see that construction, go around it, get to where they're going and be done with it. Surely, they'll realize that a short 1 block segment of replacing a downtown street will be finished if they choose to come back in the future and if they don't, its probably because they're not going to think of it at all. 

I agree with MDot. Its short sighted to worry about now, considering that in 3 to 4 years, downtown will be so bright, we're going to have to wear shades! By then you'll be wondering why you toiled over the subject in the first place.

----------


## dankrutka

I would actually argue that overall Devon has brought way more people downtown. 

Number of people that avoided downtown because part of Sheridan is shut down - 7
Number of people that go downtown to see the Devon progress, Myriad Gardens... - 4.2 billion*

*Numbers are not necessarily accurate.

----------


## Thunder

> I would actually argue that overall Devon has brought way more people downtown. 
> 
> Number of people that avoided downtown because part of Sheridan is shut down - 7
> Number of people that go downtown to see the Devon progress, Myriad Gardens... - *4.2 billion**
> 
> *Numbers are not necessarily accurate.


Interesting to see sudden population explosion in Oklahoma. :-O

----------


## wschnitt

> I do agree with you that it makes it more difficult for visitors for the time being and to answer your question, yes it has turned people away with all the construction. No offense, but it's a little short sighted to be concerned with the present so much and not try to think of what is to come. In other words, think about 2015 and all the people who will be welcome to come Downtown with all these current construction projects wrapping up or completely done, and a very high percentage will be of the ones that decided not to go Downtown because of all the current construction. Not being critical of you wschnitt, just trying to stay on a positive note with the thing that is changing the face of the Urban Core of Oklahoma City. :-)


I was not really commenting about the current construction as a large problem.  I was using it to illustrate the larger idea that the more difficult something is to get to, the less likely people are to go to it.  The torn up streets now are worth the end result.  

I am pointing out that closed streets from project 180 are the same as closed streets from large multi-block/super block developments in preventing people from easily getting to where they want to go.  The closed streets for Project 180 will reopen shortly, but Harvey will never reopen.

----------


## MDot

> I was not really commenting about the current construction as a large problem.  I was using it to illustrate the larger idea that the more difficult something is to get to, the less likely people are to go to it.  The torn up streets now are worth the end result.  
> 
> I am pointing out that closed streets from project 180 are the same as closed streets from large multi-block/super block developments in preventing people from easily getting to where they want to go.  The closed streets for Project 180 will reopen shortly, but Harvey will never reopen.


Ah, gotcha. Thought you meant that everything going on right now is making everyone avoid Downtown. Sorry, shoulda read more into it then that one comment.

----------


## Rover

The length of the block isn't the sole issue. There are many, many long blocks in NYC and lots of people walking them.  If there is something to go to on the other end of the walk that is worthwhile people will walk.  If there are interesting things or important things on those long blocks, people will walk them.

----------


## KayneMo

Too bad this skyscraper was never built... Looks beautiful! It would've really added to the current skyline. That looks, what, around the height of Chase (500')?

----------


## BoulderSooner

what was that project called?? and by whom?

----------


## G.Walker

I think it was part of the Pei Plan from the 60's, would have like to seen this also implemented from the Pei Plan:

----------


## Steve

Looks like someone has been pulling images from the book "OKC Second Time Around" without reading it....

----------


## Just the facts

A grade separated park and a 5 lane one-way street - no thanks.  OKC dodged a huge bullet with the Pei Plan.

----------


## DelCamino

> Looks like someone has been pulling images from the book "OKC Second Time Around" without reading it....


lol.  You're right, Steve.  That seem's to be very common here.

I've been meaning to mention to you when we see each other.....do you remember/know about the 'Oklahoma Commerce Tower'?  I've never seen you mention it - a 20-something story building announced in late 1981, to be built by Don Kasperiet at the nw/c of Kerr and Harvey (on the site of Don Batchelor's office, old urban renewal office).  It was a nice looking proposal, for the 80's, with the top to be curved and match the street/curb line.  Would have been a similar size to the Penn Bank tower.  I have some press clippings from the OK on it, if you're interested...

----------


## Bellaboo

There was also a 34 story building announced, a real cool looking building, half office, half hotel where the Ren. Hotel is today next to Mid-Continent. Oil bust got it though.

----------


## Steve

> lol.  You're right, Steve.  That seem's to be very common here.
> 
> I've been meaning to mention to you when we see each other.....do you remember/know about the 'Oklahoma Commerce Tower'?  I've never seen you mention it - a 20-something story building announced in late 1981, to be built by Don Kasperiet at the nw/c of Kerr and Harvey (on the site of Don Batchelor's office, old urban renewal office).  It was a nice looking proposal, for the 80's, with the top to be curved and match the street/curb line.  Would have been a similar size to the Penn Bank tower.  I have some press clippings from the OK on it, if you're interested...


That's one I never heard of. Yes, I'd love to see the clippings on that!

----------


## Just the facts

> lol.  You're right, Steve.  That seem's to be very common here.
> 
> I've been meaning to mention to you when we see each other.....do you remember/know about the 'Oklahoma Commerce Tower'?  I've never seen you mention it - a 20-something story building announced in late 1981, to be built by Don Kasperiet at the nw/c of Kerr and Harvey (on the site of Don Batchelor's office, old urban renewal office).  It was a nice looking proposal, for the 80's, with the top to be curved and match the street/curb line.  Would have been a similar size to the Penn Bank tower.  I have some press clippings from the OK on it, if you're interested...


Thank you - I have been racking my brain to remember the details of that building.  I think the rendering even made the front page of the Oklahoman back then.  If I remember correctly, it was going to be the home of First Interstate Bank (now part of Wells Fargo).  Of course, we all know what happened 6 months later.

----------


## DelCamino

Steve, I've copied articles from that era onto Word and will email them to you.  I think it's some good reading.  Meanwhile, here's some quick info about that tower:

From Sunday Dec. 6, 1981 (front page of the biz section, I think)...

_"....A third office building downtown is scheduled to be built, starting early in 1982. Don Kaspereit, president of Development Planning Inc., said the 21-story Oklahoma Commerce Tower at North Harvey and Kerr will be completed and ready for occupancy in 1983. 

Kaspereit bought the former Security Federal Savings & Loan Association building from Sooner Federal Savings & Loan Association for approximately $800,000 earlier this year. 

The present building on the 87 1/2- by 100-foot tract will be demolished, he said."...._

Photo is about the best I can do....

----------


## Steve

Interesting....

----------


## Pete

That must have been for the NW corner of Harvey & Kerr:

----------


## Bellaboo

I remember that as far as they got was to strip the furnishings and fixtures from this building. My neighbor's son was one of 3 partners with Don Kaspereit.

----------


## UnFrSaKn

Looks like it. The garage behind the skyscraper is still there, if you do a StreetView.

----------


## DelCamino

Yes, it is the nw/c of Kerr and Harvey (a small note: location was mentioned in my first post about the proposal).

----------


## MDot

Does anyone know how tall Leadership Square was originally planned to be? I've never seen an official height although I do remember reading it was suppose to be 60-stories.

----------


## DelCamino

> Does anyone know how tall Leadership Square was originally planned to be? I've never seen an official height although I do remember reading it was suppose to be 60-stories.


I too have seen someone from Oklahoma City who has posted on various forums about LS originally supposed to be taller than it is today.  I don't remember anything from that time (announcments, news articles, renderings, models), and I followed its construction, that ever indicated the building was reduced in size.  I could be wrong, but I think that person has been misinformed, and the building in place today is what was originally planned.

----------


## Pete

I think Del is absolutely right.

There was at least one other competing proposal but it was not taller than LS.

----------


## MDot

Sounds like someone was day dreaming while they wrote the article Del and I read that in.

----------


## dmoor82

> I too have seen someone from Oklahoma City who has posted on various forums about LS originally supposed to be taller than it is today. I don't remember anything from that time (announcments, news articles, renderings, models), and I followed its construction, that ever indicated the building was reduced in size. I could be wrong, but I think that person has been misinformed, and the building in place today is what was originally planned.


^^That poster on other forums You speak of is probably Me,I have heard this rumor on this forum before and from others.I have never seen old clippings or seen any links to proove it,so I think You and Pete are right!

----------


## Pete

There was a proposed 50-story tower as part of the Galleria complex -- would have been built where the Norrick Library currently sits.

But that was just a concept by Vincent Carrozza who built the first two Galleria Towers, now called Corporate and Oklahoma Towers.

It was talked about the same time Leadership Square was built, so that may be part of the confusion.

----------


## dmoor82

^^Thats more likely!

----------


## mcca7596

Maybe the buildings as they are constructed were not meant to be higher, but I thought I'd read on here that Leadership Square was originally intended to be one building, not north and south.

Add together the two sections and that would be what? 40 stories? not 60+ though.

----------


## wschnitt

On wiki it says it LS was supposed to be 60+ stories.

----------


## Just the facts

I have seen rendering of the proposed taller LS and it was originally planned to be a single tower in the 50 story range.

----------


## dmoor82

OK,now I know I'm not crazy!

----------


## dmoor82

From Wiki: Leadership Square was originally intended to be a single 60+ floor skyscraper but was later scaled down to two connected towers due to economic downturn.http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...nYE9aylphQfFqw

----------


## Pete

There is lots of wrong information in that wiki entry and they don't cite many sources.

----------


## dmoor82

^^I know Wiki isnt the best place to find correct facts,I have seen other sources that say the same though.I am going to do some searching!

----------


## wschnitt

"At more than 60 stories, Leadership Square promised what would have been the Sooner State’s tallest building"

From the Journal Record, 2008

http://www.jigsaw.com/3401047/These_...ews_view.xhtml

----------


## DelCamino

Yeah, I know those things are out there, but I still don't buy it.  I'd need to see an article or announcement from that time (late 70's, early 80's) indicating the new building was going to be constructed differently than what it was.  In researching the real estate archieves and OCURA records of the day, I still haven't found one.  The story could be true, but Wiki articles and news bits from the last couple of years that don't cite the reasons for such statements, aren't really convincing.

----------


## DelCamino

Pete, you're right - I remember looking at the model for the proposed 50-ish story building to be built at the library site.  It was to be a part of the Galleria office complex (building 3), developed by Dallas developer Vincent Carroza and designed by New York architect Philip Johnson (sp).

----------


## Pete

The first photo shows the proposed 50-story Galleria tower (just below Carrozza's name tag).

The second was a competing proposal for Leadership Square.

----------


## Pete

Also, I scoured the Oklahoman archives and am 99.9% sure the original Leadership Square proposal was exactly what was built, except they added the atrium very soon after receiving approval.

It was one of four competing proposals and was the tallest of the bunch.


Additionally, the Journal Record blurb says it was the fall of Penn Square Bank that caused MetLife to reduce Leadership Square in scope.  But I saw an article in 1981 that outlined exactly what ended up being built and PSB didn't fail until July 1982.


I think this is a case of rumors being cited so many times others are taking it as fact.  I'm quite sure between Del, Doug, me & Steve we would have remembered a 60-story office tower proposal.

----------


## dmoor82

old Oklahoma tower rendering!

----------


## Pete

No, that's Corporate Tower on the left and Oklahoma Tower on the right.

The rendering is looking from the northeast with the Robinson Renaissance building removed.  Carrozza was lobbying to have it demolished to create an entrance to the proposed Galleria mall.

----------


## dmoor82

^^That tower looks almost exactly like the OK tower!

----------


## dmoor82

> No, that's Corporate Tower on the left and Oklahoma Tower on the right.
> 
> The rendering is looking from the northeast with the Robinson Renaissance building removed. Carrozza was lobbying to have it demolished to create an entrance to the proposed Galleria mall.


^^Gothcha',maybe if I researched Dougs blog or read Steve's book I would know these things!

----------


## Pete

It also helps to be older and have experienced all this first hand.

A number of us were directly involved in all this stuff so we have a pretty good framework to start with, and that makes it easy to fill in any gaps (or reinforce assumptions) through the Internet and writings.


That's not to say that I am always right but I've kept on top of OKC development for almost 40 years.  If there is something I missed or that I'm wrong about, I love to be corrected so I get the right information.

----------


## dmoor82

I'm glad that competing proposal to Leadership wasnt chosen.That is just ugly!

----------


## DelCamino

> I'm glad that competing proposal to Leadership wasnt chosen.That is just ugly!


I was just about the say the same.  Dodged that one...

----------


## Pete

Here's another one of the proposals:

----------


## MDot

I think it's safe to say LS came out pretty nice compared to some of the proposals.

----------


## skanaly

What about Rand Elliot's design of the Turbinomic tower, isn't that a possibility?

----------


## skanaly

I know it's just a concept, but i see potential in this building

----------


## Spartan

> Also, I scoured the Oklahoman archives and am 99.9% sure the original Leadership Square proposal was exactly what was built, except they added the atrium very soon after receiving approval.


That's not what it says in Lackmeyer's "Second Time Around" book, which corroborates Leadership Square originally being 60 stories tall. That's also what I've always heard personally.

----------


## mcca7596

> I know it's just a concept, but i see potential in this building


That exact site is where the downtown elementary is going to go, FYI. 

Regardless, I personally do not care for that rendering, just at first glance.

----------


## Spartan

> I am pretty sure the era of 'super block' is over.


Well, it is, just not here in OKC...

----------


## rcjunkie

> That exact site is where the downtown elementary is going to go, FYI. 
> 
> Regardless, I personally do no care for that rendering, just at first glance.


Would look great on top of a 100ft Christmas Tree.

----------


## skanaly

I actually personally think it looks horrible in that location, but i do think it's a very unique building...even though rand elliot desgined it and he can weird...lol

----------


## CuatrodeMayo

Meh...Dubai knockoff.

----------


## Spartan

> I actually personally think it looks horrible in that location, but i do think it's a very unique building...even though rand elliot desgined it and he can weird...lol


Yeah, I've always wavered back and forth on Rand. Lately I've been losing respect for him...

----------


## Just the facts

> I know it's just a concept, but i see potential in this building


While it is a building at the core, most of what you see is a wind turbine.  Here are a lot more pictures of it and a write-up on it.  It is 795 feet tall.

http://www.arthitectural.com/elliott...s-turbinomics/

----------


## Thunder

Where and when will this be built?  I was thinking somewhere near the Skydance bridge.

----------


## Just the facts

> Where and when will this be built?  I was thinking somewhere near the Skydance bridge.


It won't be built.  It was an entry in a contest.

----------


## mcca7596

> It won't be built.  It was an entry in a contest.


I'm guessing it didn't win...

----------


## MDot

> It won't be built.  It was an entry in a contest.


What contest? Sorry, this is the first I've seen of it.

----------


## Thunder

What was the contest and what did win?

OKC need to stop bringing us proposals and renderings only to not actually do anything with them!!!  Skydance for example is a MIRACLE!!!  Its so frustrating to see how OKC are destructing itself (the leaders, the executives, whoever the important people are).  We've lost this strange structure, we may have lost the oil derrick structure, and many other things.  The Ferris Wheel is still hidden away in storage.  

HUGE LOVE TO DEVON for moving OKC forward.  I just hope what DEVON did will be enough to boom OKC into serious skyscraper capitol of the nation.  Love the Skydance bridge.  New I-40.  Sure, we have progress, but only a few are progress while we still have many more that just go dead. :-(

I know, time flies.  I gotta wait 10 years....maybe 20 years....to hopefully see at least 5 skyscrapers in construction at the same time.  I want people to start picking OKC.  Not Dallas.  Not the weird DFW wording.  Not anywhere else.  Just pick OKC.  Its all I ask.

----------


## skanaly

What about mixed used buildings on the new boulevard downtown? Is that a project in progress or is it just a concept?

----------


## ljbab728

> What about mixed used buildings on the new boulevard downtown? Is that a project in progress or is it just a concept?


It's just a concept at this point.  Nothing concrete has been proposed.

----------


## Thunder

Lookie, I found a picture. :-P

----------


## ljbab728

http://newsok.com/2012-profiles-okla...l-finance-news

----------


## Pete

Great summary by Steve.

Some things not mentioned:  The completion of the CHK Arena expansion, the renovation of the Braniff Building, tenants in the Dowell Center and the new boulevard.

Of course, LEVEL will be completed in 2012 as will the Aloft hotel.  The Packard/Guardian project should be wrapped up as well as 1212 N Walker along with several other smaller projects in Midtown.

Projects likely to commence in 2012:  House of Bedlam in Bricktown, Pitman hotel project in Bricktown, Bradshaw apartments in Deep Deuce, The Edge in Midtown, the SandRidge amenities building, the downtown elementary school and I'm sure some others not already announced.

----------


## wschnitt

I do not think the Aloft hotel will be done this year

----------


## Pete

Another big finish for 2012 is the Colcord...

Extensive and expensive renovations for a brand new lobby restaurant with adjoining patio and park plus a 3-story addition containing meeting rooms that will link it to the Devon Tower.

Also hope the cafe in the Myriad Gardens will find a solid operator.

The Hart Building conversion in Film Row will really bring that area along (lots of office space with some retail) and good progress should be made on the Tower Theater, as the 23rd street corridor starts to hit it's stride.

----------


## Steve

> Great summary by Steve.
> 
> Some things not mentioned:  The completion of the CHK Arena expansion, the renovation of the Braniff Building, tenants in the Dowell Center and the new boulevard.
> 
> Of course, LEVEL will be completed in 2012 as will the Aloft hotel.  The Packard/Guardian project should be wrapped up as well as 1212 N Walker along with several other smaller projects in Midtown.
> 
> Projects likely to commence in 2012:  House of Bedlam in Bricktown, Pitman hotel project in Bricktown, Bradshaw apartments in Deep Deuce, The Edge in Midtown, the SandRidge amenities building, the downtown elementary school and I'm sure some others not already announced.


Yeah, I'll be honest with you: this was a deal requested mid-week by local desk when I was already pretty busy working on the MidTown situation. Obviously I could have added a lot more into this - including likely outcome to be learned with Stage Center, design of the new police and city court buildings, etc. It's definitely going to be one of those transition years akin to 1999, 2002 and 2006. Seems like we're hitting these benchmark years about every four to five years.

----------


## Pete

Steve, I certainly didn't mean my comments as any sort of criticism.  I have tremendous respect for what you do and the volume of quality work you put forth.

I'm still struggling to write one silly little blog post about Project 180!


Just meant to supplement what you wrote.

----------


## Steve

No, no, I know this. It's just that I'm being critical of it. It's not really my best work - it could have been a lot more exhaustive. And if I had thought it through, I probably would have added in this little nugget: evidence is building that there will be another "skyscraper" added to the skyline.

----------


## dmoor82

^^Taller than Chase but shorter than Devon,right?My next door neighbor is crane operator from Texas,He was told to be on standby if He wanted the work.I hope He is correct,but We'll see!

----------


## Just the facts

> ... I probably would have added in this little nugget: evidence is building that there will be another "skyscraper" added to the skyline.


Ah crap - why do you do this to us?

----------


## dmoor82

Let the speculation begin!I Love it!

----------


## Steve

> Ah crap - why do you do this to us?


Well either you want me to tell you as much as I can tell you, or not. Seriously, if I had more I could confidently share, I would!

----------


## UnFrSaKn

From January 14 2012

----------


## Pete

Thanks Will!

Cropped one of those photos to show 1) Dowell starting work on the improvement of their eastern facade and 2) the demolition of the old Globe Life building has begun:

----------


## MikeOKC

Great summation article from Steve and with Pete's additions, it's a good look at what 2012 will bring us downtown. 

Somebody said they didn't think aloft would be ready by 2012. What's the thinking there?

Will, you provide some _wonderful_ pictures for us here on OKCTalk. For that, a big thanks!

----------


## Spartan

Will's last photo is desktop-worthy.

----------


## mcca7596

> Somebody said they didn't think aloft would be ready by 2012. What's the thinking there?


On their website, it has said for awhile opening 2013. http://www.starwoodhotels.com/alofth...ortType=region

Mind you, I think it will be early 2013, as I've read that elsewhere.

----------


## kevinpate

> Ah crap - why do you do this to us?



I'm thinking maybe it's the print media equivalent of Film at 11.  

Keep sharing Steve.  We can take it (most of us anyhows)

----------


## UnFrSaKn

That was while I was headed back to the car after doing video from 7:30 with the sunrise until around Noon. Walking around with a tripod and camera and snapped that. Still don't feel comfortable around SandRidge. It was almost an afterthought to take the pictures. That was with an iPhone. I could do more with a real camera.

----------


## mcca7596

> And if I had thought it through, I probably would have added in this little nugget: evidence is building that there will be another "skyscraper" added to the skyline.


Just to be clear, this is in addition to a possible new Sandridge building, correct?

----------


## Pete

I think it's pretty obvious that the downtown market needs a sizable chunk of Class A space and that a developer or two is going to seize this opportunity.

It shouldn't be that hard to find an anchor tenant to take about 1/3 of a new structure and then lease the rest on spec.

Even if someone is already working on plans, it would take about 2-3 years to bring space on-line.  By that time you'd think they'd have a line of people wanting space given the momentum downtown and the pace at which the area's largest employers are projected to grow.

----------


## Steve

> Just to be clear, this is in addition to a possible new Sandridge building, correct?


Very much. Yep. The SandRidge building, while still not clearly lined out to the public, has been officially confirmed. And this isn't the potential convention hotel either.

----------


## UnFrSaKn



----------


## Jesseda

> Very much. Yep. The SandRidge building, while still not clearly lined out to the public, has been officially confirmed. And this isn't the potential convention hotel either.


do you know when we will find out more about this new building? Maybe a hint on how big it will be????you tossed out a treat, but now I want the whole box  :Smile:

----------


## Steve

I promise, when I get this story nailed down, I'll quickly share it.

----------


## Pete

Sandridge is going to have it's hands full in 2012 with the Braniff Building and amenities complex, plus their part in re-doing Kerr Park.

I bet it will take them most the year to have any sort of handle of their future needs so I bet they don't even know the scale of a future companion tower.

----------


## Steve

Based on what I've been told, we're probably looking at 2014/2015.

----------


## NWOKCGuy

Steve, you're making my weekend.

----------


## catch22

> Based on what I've been told, we're probably looking at 2014/2015.


Completion or construction?

----------


## wschnitt

> On their website, it has said for awhile opening 2013. http://www.starwoodhotels.com/alofth...ortType=region
> 
> Mind you, I think it will be early 2013, as I've read that elsewhere.


I knew I read that somewhere.  Also by looking at the site, there is still a TON of work to be done.  They have hardly started.

----------


## metro

> Very much. Yep. The SandRidge building, while still not clearly lined out to the public, has been officially confirmed. And this isn't the potential convention hotel either.


Cue the dramatic music...

----------


## wschnitt

I hope we are able to do this *without tearing anything down*  like the construction of the Devon Tower

----------


## Steve

ugh

----------


## dmoor82

> I hope we are able to do this *without tearing anything down* like the construction of the Devon Tower


huh?Didn't they tear down one parking garage and added 5 floors to the other?I'm all in favor of tearing down a parking structure if it adds an 844'ft skyscraper!I think most of us can agree that the building of the Devon Tower has helped the surrounding area alot!

----------


## G.Walker

The possible new skyscraper will probably be built by Boeing, or American Fidelity

----------


## wschnitt

> I hope we are able to do this *without tearing anything down*  like the construction of the Devon Tower


As in they build on a current surface lot, like Devon did or maybe a grassy field like Level.  My ideal place would be the grassy field across from the AT&T building.  Then Deep Duce and Downtown would be nicely linked.

----------


## dmoor82

I'd like to see that too,but this is OKC!

----------


## wschnitt

> huh?Didn't they tear down one parking garage and added 5 floors to the other?I'm all in favor of tearing down a parking structure if it adds an 844'ft skyscraper!I think most of us can agree that the building of the Devon Tower has helped the surrounding area alot!


I do agree, I do not think I was clear.  The Devon Tower would have had a lesser impact if they would have torn down The Skirvin and put it there for example.  I am simply hoping for a net gain in buildings downtown instead of tear something out and replace it.

----------


## kevinpate

Depends on what they might need to tear down.  I've no issue with the Ford place disappearing for the CC or some other grand development for example.  If someone wants to tear down something dilapidated to put up a 20+ story structure, no harm, no foul.

----------


## wschnitt

The amount of dilapidated buildings downtown is approaching zero.

----------


## Steve

> The amount of dilapidated buildings downtown is approaching zero.


The ONLY boarded up building I'm aware of is the one owned by Avis Scaramucci - the Rock Island Plow building at Reno and Oklahoma in Bricktown (I'm fully aware I just threw out some red meat for Spartan..)

----------


## wschnitt

So why don't you agree with me?!?

Not counting the Nick Preftakes block of course.

----------


## Spartan

> The ONLY boarded up building I'm aware of is the one owned by Avis Scaramucci - the Rock Island Plow building at Reno and Oklahoma in Bricktown (I'm fully aware I just threw out some red meat for Spartan..)


Woof.

----------


## Spartan

> So why don't you agree with me?!?
> 
> Not counting the Nick Preftakes block of course.


Those are buildings that are anything but dilapidated. If any of those buildings are to come down... that block has the potential to be the best block in all of OKC, as long as all the existing urban character is retained.

----------


## wschnitt

I did not say there were dilapidated.  I do think that Pizza Town or whatever it is called is in fact dilapidated.  I was pointing out that if something is torn down to make way for a new building, something will be lost as well as gained.  Instead of building where nothing currently stands and then we only stand to gain from the new construction.

----------


## Spartan

There's a lot of space in the spectrum between dilapidated and immaculate. I hate that there's this perception that in order for a new business to be viable in an old building, you have to completely renovate it to the tune of millions of dollars (and make it look whitewashed and shiny on the inside like Joey's in Film Row, an example of a bldg with a ton of history).

Anything that is built on the site of that block, over the Stage Center, etc., is going to seem corporatized and bland by comparison. One thing that OKC doesn't yet understand is that it is possible to move backward. You can spend a kajillion dollars on something that represents a net loss from what was already there in terms of the cityscape. Progress isn't infallible, sometimes a "progression" is actually a huge "regression," just ask Robert Moses and I.M. Pei.

There are so many obvious history lessons that people never take heed.

----------


## MDot

> ^^Taller than Chase but shorter than Devon,right?My next door neighbor is crane operator from Texas,He was told to be on standby if He wanted the work.I hope He is correct,but We'll see!


I personally believe this, dmoor82 has been going on and on about what his neighbor told him who operates the Devon Tower crane and it actually sounds pretty credible, especially the part where he was told to stay on stand by if he wanted the work. He might of made that up but I don't see why he would waste the time to play mind games unless he's really that bored.

----------


## ZYX2

> I personally believe this, dmoor82 has been going on and on about what his neighbor told him who operates the Devon Tower crane and it actually sounds pretty credible, especially the part where he was told to stay on stand by if he wanted the work. He might of made that up but I don't see why he would waste the time to play mind games unless he's really that bored.


It certainly is sounding very possible. I just wonder who would build it?

----------


## Spartan

At this point, it doesn't have to be owner-occupied. That was the economics of a non-boom downtown. Don't blink now, but suddenly we're looking at an all around real estate crunch downtown.

----------


## Just the facts

It wouldn't take much of a building to be the largest speculative office building currenty in development across the country.  The title now goes to 2 - 10 story buildings in Charlotte.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/neighborhoo...137204808.html




> The 10-story, 275,000-square-foot Gragg Building and its mirror building, the Woodward Building, together comprise the largest speculative office project in the nation slated for completion in 2012

----------


## Spartan

I believe the new mid-rise in Tulsa (which I think is taller than 10 floors) is spec? There's an oil company involved, but I believe they just signed a lease with Eggleston?

I could be way off on that though..

----------


## Bellaboo

> The possible new skyscraper will probably be built by Boeing, or American Fidelity


Could also be MidFirst bank or just a spec tower.

----------


## Spartan

I would personally expect a spec tower more than anything. Consider that Devon's former tower will be occupied by Continental (who will also be expanding), and that Oklahoma Tower will be Devon overflow in 4-5 years. That's about how long it will take for a new spec office tower, ideally replacing Oklahoma Tower (which would make the spec tower not very speculative afterall), to be completed if first announced in 2012.

----------


## Thunder

> I would personally expect a spec tower more than anything. Consider that Devon's former tower will be occupied by Continental (who will also be expanding), and that *Oklahoma Tower will be Devon overflow in 4-5 years*. That's about how long it will take for a new spec office tower, ideally replacing Oklahoma Tower (which would make the spec tower not very speculative afterall), to be completed if first announced in 2012.


Should've made the new skyscraper taller than 850...

----------


## ljbab728

> It wouldn't take much of a building to be the largest speculative office building currenty in development across the country.  The title now goes to 2 - 10 story buildings in Charlotte.
> 
> http://www.wcnc.com/news/neighborhoo...137204808.html


Work beginning this year.

http://www.wilshiregrandredevelopment.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEJkbwHNdKI

----------


## Just the facts

> Work beginning this year.
> 
> http://www.wilshiregrandredevelopment.com/
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEJkbwHNdKI


They are tearing down a couple of substantional buildings to build these.  Too bad they couldn't find a less developed piece of property to build on.  However, they cite the locations proximity to rail transit as the reason for picking the location.  It makes me wonder if OKC will need to have it's streetcar alignment nailed down before we see construction on a spec office tower.

----------


## G.Walker

I highly doubt it will be spec. The chamber has mentioned too many times of new jobs and companies relocating to OKC for the past few years, and it's prob just now coming to fruition. I give it a 99% chance that it will be owner occupant. I just hope it's an out of state company doing this, and not local, it will make our renaissance look that more attractive.

----------


## Oil Capital

> I believe the new mid-rise in Tulsa (which I think is taller than 10 floors) is spec? There's an oil company involved, but I believe they just signed a lease with Eggleston?
> 
> I could be way off on that though..


Yep.  You are way off on that.  The new building in Tulsa is not spec.  Cimarex is taking most of the building.  And the building would not be happening without that lease.

----------


## Spartan

Ah, so it is a lease.

----------


## Oil Capital

> It wouldn't take much of a building to be the largest speculative office building currenty in development across the country.  The title now goes to 2 - 10 story buildings in Charlotte.
> 
> http://www.wcnc.com/news/neighborhoo...137204808.html


True that it would probably not take much to be the largest speculative office building.  But the 10-story buildings in Charlotte do not take the title of the largest currently in development.  As your quoted portion states, they are the largest speculative project _slated for completion in 2012_.

It is highly unlikely that any substantial new building would be built as a spec.  Not many developers build with their own money and financing is not available without substantial pre-leasing.

----------


## Spartan

> They are tearing down a couple of substantional buildings to build these.  Too bad they couldn't find a less developed piece of property to build on.  However, they cite the locations proximity to rail transit as the reason for picking the location.  It makes me wonder if OKC will need to have it's streetcar alignment nailed down before we see construction on a spec office tower.


Well, the gist is that right now our city leaders and especially the planning department, do not understand the importance of the streetcar. The streetcar wasn't planning's idea, so it's definitely not very high up Klaus' list, for a number of reasons. As it stands, they see a lot of development happening without it. 

What they don't understand, because most of them strive to be a caretaker planning department, is the game-changing aspect of the streetcar. So it's hard to say in that retrospect, of whether it will take that to do towers on spec. What I can say is that right now we're just seeing "boom OKC," whereas streetcar will completely reinvent development patterns in OKC. Whole new city.

I am personally aware of a considerable amount of development that is just in limbo right now, mostly because of the streetcar, but also somewhat because of the convention center. I hate to think about how much Lackmeyer is personally aware of that's in limbo...

----------


## Steve

Not sure I follow on this Spartan....

----------


## Oil Capital

> Work beginning this year.
> 
> http://www.wilshiregrandredevelopment.com/
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEJkbwHNdKI


The office tower in the Wilshire Grand redev is (a) not likely to start this year and (b) is not being built as a spec.

----------


## Spartan

> Not sure I follow on this Spartan....


Well in terms of large developments in limbo right now, just think of hotels for example... under normal circumstances obviously we'd see a lot more happening on that front right now (esp given the tightness of the downtown hotel market) than just the Aloft and Pitman projects.

----------


## SharkSandwich

I don't think it will be spec based upon the square footage being vacated in Chase, Corporate and Oklahoma Tower by July.  My money is on Continental building a new tower.  I posted this on another thread, but here is my reasoning:

My memory is that CLR is moving about 250 employees into the current Devon building (MidAmerica Tower). CLR also has plans to triple their size over the next five years (750 employees). MAT has 19 floors. I believe the top 4 floors are under a long term lease to the law firm of Crowe and Dunleavy. That would leave 15 available floors. Each floor has around 35 offices, with room for 15 cublicles in the interior. 50 employees x 15 floors = 750 employees.

So by my calculations, CLR would completely fill the entire space available in MAT in 5 years. To me, it makes sense that CLR's MAT move is more of a temporary transition than a long term move. CLR could choose to fill available space in neighboring towers as they outgrow MAT (like Devon), but that is not a good long term plan.  5 years seems like a good amount of time to pick plans and complete construction on a new tower.  Just my thoughts.

I would look for CLR to build a new building in the new future if their Bakken assets are what people are projecting. I would think that a new headquarters/tower would be a perfect anchor for the new Core to Shore development, especially given the timing of the new development.

----------


## Popsy

And those developments, in your mind, are just waiting on the street cars?  Amusing to say the least.

----------


## Rover

Streetcars will change the pattern of development.  What we don't know is if it really will bring more net investment and jobs into the METRO.  But it will change where those investments will be made and therefore specific areas will prosper.   No reason to believe that won't happen.

----------


## Steve

> Well in terms of large developments in limbo right now, just think of hotels for example... under normal circumstances obviously we'd see a lot more happening on that front right now (esp given the tightness of the downtown hotel market) than just the Aloft and Pitman projects.


Can't really agree with this. Truth is, financing for hotels is excruciatingly difficult - still - due to the 2008 economic crash. That's why a slam dunk like the Bricktown Hilton Garden Inn is going slow, and it's why other sure things that were proposed - Holiday Inn Express and Candlewood Inn (both also proposed for Bricktown) stayed dead. It's just a brutal lending environment. There's nothing I know of being delayed due to the streetcar system, MAPS 3 or Project 180.

----------


## catch22

I bet there are people and investors on the sidelines though.... That don't have any firm plans to the public or in any of the downtown gossip circles right now because they are waiting for some more firm details to emerge regarding a ton of variables downtown right now. 

Convention Center Layout.
Boulevard.
Streetcar.
Downtown Central Park.
New parking garage.

etc...

I bet some more proposals will come off the sidelines and work their way into the outlets and circles of people Steve communicates with, once some of these civic projects start to move forward and plans become more apparent.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I am looking at it.

----------


## Rover

There have been any number of hints dropped by civic leaders lately, including the mayor.  Not hints of WHO, but rather that a significant announcement likely would be made this year.  It sounds like another move-in, but who knows.

----------


## UnFrSaKn

So I just got back from Starbucks with Steve and Cooper Ross who did the wildly popular aerial photos of downtown... Don't worry Steve I won't spill the beans but....it's GOOD. This will be amazing... looks like I'll have a new project lined up in the near future.

----------


## dmoor82

^^I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for that conversation!

----------


## Dustin

> so i just got back from starbucks with steve and cooper ross who did the wildly popular aerial photo of downtown... Don't worry steve i won't spill the beans but....it's good. This will be amazing... Looks like i'll have a new project lined up in the near future.


damn you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## Thundercitizen

Okay...that's just not fair! 
More detail, more details...F5, F5, F5...

Fun stuff.

Go OKC, beat Boston!

 :Dizzy:

----------


## Thundercitizen

> damn you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I think this said it better.

----------


## SharkSandwich

Can you at least give us a ballpark time when we can expect an announcement?

----------


## UnFrSaKn

I'm kind of stirring the pot a little. I'm not sure Steve knows all that much but trust me, no one is more excite than Steve to get enough solid info and confirmation to bring the story to everyone.

----------


## Jesseda

Gives us something lol, so is it going to be taller then chase, smaller then devon. BIGGER THEN DEVON... more then one building??? wonder if boeing is involved????

----------


## dmoor82

My prediction is that it will be taller than Chase but shorter than Devon,atleast I hope so!

----------


## ljbab728

> The office tower in the Wilshire Grand redev is (a) not likely to start this year and (b) is not being built as a spec.


It's not really relevant to this thread but the scheduled start date is in 2012.  Whether that happen, who knows.  I've seen no evidence of the 65 floor office building being preleased.  Do you have inside information?

----------


## Thunder

> So I just got back from Starbucks with Steve and Cooper Ross who did the wildly popular aerial photos of downtown... Don't worry Steve I won't spill the beans but....it's GOOD. This will be amazing... looks like I'll have a new project lined up in the near future.


Am I understanding this correctly that Steve got ahold of the model for future skyscraper set to reveal and construct this year?  And the person Steve decided to show was William?  Why not just be a true reporter by spilling it all out right here, right now?  Take the credit for being the first to report.  Allow OKCTalk the credit to be the first public source to reveal the news?  C'mon, Steve, you obviously owe us all here at OKCTalk that much by posting the renderings and details.  >_<

I assume that William's use of the word, amazing, which he rarely uses do imply that its going to be taller than Devon.  STEVE!!!!

----------


## Thunder

Steve, may I have an appointment with you?  :-)

Skyscrapers take at least a year of planning.  All this time, we've had members on here, including myself, delivering credible rumors only to be dismissed by the general public.  Early last year, I shared that a friend working at Dolsee was told that the next skyscraper was in the planning, but details was vague.  People on here laughed it off.  Then over the months, more and more people kept coming on with similar rumors.  Well, lookie, we are having another skyscraper!  

I'm curious, though, how long was it when the first rumors came out about possible new skyscraper until the time Devon Tower unveiled the surprise?  And how long was it since the Devon Tower unveiling until the breaking ground of construction?

Comparing all of that with Devon Tower, how is that with our next skyscraper?  We know that the rumors started last year, so the time frame is at least a year of rumors circulating.  How much longer until the actual announcement?  And after that announcement, how long will we typically wait for construction to begin?  

Pete, have you found anything suspicious on the County Assessor's website?  They could have cleverly kept things hidden.  There is already a model rendering out there right now that Steve and William has already seen.

----------


## G.Walker

From what I can remember, rumors started about Devon Tower Summer of 2007, officially announced in August of 2008, and broke ground October 2009.

----------


## Oil Capital

> It's not really relevant to this thread but the scheduled start date is in 2012.  Whether that happen, who knows.  I've seen no evidence of the 65 floor office building being preleased.  Do you have inside information?


The schedule has apparently slipped (surprise, surprise).  They aren't even starting the demolition of the existing hotel until June and say that will be completed in early 2013, at which time they will begin construction of the new hotel, which will be finished by 2015.  No immediate plans to start construction on the office tower.  There is almost zero chance construction on an office tower of that size will be done on a spec basis.

http://www.ladowntownnews.com/news/s...9bb2963f4.html

----------


## G.Walker

Moreover, I would suspect we have an official announcement this year, and construction will probably begin in 2013, and last until 2015, just depending on the size of the new skyscraper.

----------


## Thunder

> From what I can remember, rumors started about Devon Tower Summer of 2007, officially announced in August of 2008, and broke ground October 2009.


You're serious?!  WOW!!!  Construction does not seem like it lasted more than two years!!!  OMG!!!  It just feels like a whole year.  Dang, it never felt like time went by that fast. :-O

As for learning about Devon's new skyscraper, it felt like I first learned about that in 2010.  To see you say they unveiled it in 2008 really shocks me!!!  Now I'm so lost on time and how it all could just zip by like that!

So, comparing Devon to our next skyscraper, it seems that Devon moved at a much slower pace.  Our next skyscraper have rumors starting last year and now we have Steve already gotten his hands/eyes on the model rendering.  That is definitely really fast and that says a lot for our future skyscrapers, because we could have up to 5 new skyscrapers by the time 10 years pass on by.  OKC is really on full speed ahead! 

Thanks to Devon and OKC's economy, banks should not hesitate loaning millions/billions to build new skyscrapers.  BancFirst executives, I'm looking at you all considering the bank is Oklahoma-based, I hope you guys (and females, if any) don't reject any future big-time loans.

One tower I noticed was the BOK yesterday (Bank of Oklahoma).  Its very small according to today's standard.  Lets hope that bank (they can afford it) will also build a skyscraper.

I think Devon is classified as a Skyscraper (according to SkyscraperCity), but I can't find the real term for Devon's height range.  Within the next 10 years for OKC, I am betting on 3 Skyscrapers and 2 Supertalls.  

Oklahoma has a lot of advantages and incentives for companies to start out, rebuild, or relocate.  We should easily see companies coming from Dallas, which will leave Dallas plenty of skyscrapers for sale while new ones are constructed in OKC.

If you are right, G.Walker, we wouldn't have to wait years for someone to plan, announce, and construct anymore in OKC.  It should all be fairly fast.

----------


## G.Walker

I know you love skyscrapers Thunder, but skyscrapers don't come easy to any city. If you do your research on skyscraper development in the U.S., most skyscrapers were built in major cities like LA, Dallas, and Houston in the 80's. Dallas is seeing its first skyscraper built over 500 feet, in 25 years. Houston just completed its first skyscraper downtown over 500 feet in 25 years! L.A. is just now starting to see proposal for new skyscrapers downtown 20 years, with exception to the L.A. Live Hotel just completed in 2010. With exception of cities like Austin, Miami, New York, and Chicago...skyscrapers are not a common development in cities. With that being said, to have two major skyscrapers completed within a 5 year span is very rare, especially for a city our size. I wouldn't expect no new skyscrapers/highrises after this next one for some time, not counting the new Sandridge Tower and CC Hotel.

----------


## G.Walker

Smaller cities bigger than OKC like Memphis, Louisville, Jacksonville, Phoenix, Denver, haven't seen a significant skyscraper built in decades, and what I mean by significant, I mean 500 feet plus.

----------


## Thunder

That is interesting.  I don't know anything about other states, but it was always implied that OKC was the only one so behind with skyscrapers development.  I'm happy to see that its not the case. :-D  It looks like OKC will rival other major skyscraper-cities in a decade or two. :-D

----------


## OKCisOK4me

Thunder, Steve doesn't get his paycheck from us or Pete, therefore he has no obligation to break details here. As for William, he has put in a lot of time and dedication into this website to bring US a showing quite like no other so he deserved the invite IMO. Be patient like the rest of us.

----------


## Thunder

> Thunder, Steve doesn't get his paycheck from us or Pete, therefore he has no obligation to break details here. As for William, he has put in a lot of time and dedication into this website to bring US a showing quite like no other so he deserved the invite IMO. Be patient like the rest of us.


We know this, but we're still dying!!! I'm not the only one. ;-)

----------


## BoulderSooner

disregard

----------


## therondo

Please calm yourself Thunder. I think your getting a little bit ahead of yourself.. Steve is a hell of a reporter and I doubt that he is 'withholding information' due to 'favoritism'. He can't just come on here and spew information. He makes sure his statements and his stories are credible before releasing them. As it seems to me, I think we will have new tower construction soon, but for you to put Will and Steve on the spot like that is not fair. I'm almost positive that they will share the information once the timing is right. CHILL OUT MAN!!!!

----------


## G.Walker

> That is interesting.  I don't know anything about other states, but it was always implied that OKC was the only one so behind with skyscrapers development.  I'm happy to see that its not the case. :-D  It looks like OKC will rival other major skyscraper-cities in a decade or two. :-D


We were lucky just to get Devon Tower, and to have another one built close to the same size would be amazing.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

There are other things you can do to take your mind off the subject. Work, volunteer somewhere, walk in the middle of a street against the flow of traffic (should ease your mind off of future OKC development), lol.

----------


## Skyline

> just watched last weeks (jan10) economic dev trust meeting ... the chamber was giving a presentation about Cameron internatinal   creating 100 new jobs in OKC ..  
> 
> at the end *he* says that he hopes to give "another pleasing anouncemnet" in a couple of weeks ...


Who is "*he*"?

----------


## Thunder

> just watched last weeks (jan10) economic dev trust meeting ... the chamber was giving a presentation about Cameron internatinal   creating 100 new jobs in OKC ..  
> 
> at the end he says that he hopes to give "another pleasing anouncemnet" in a couple of weeks ...


Are they already in OKC?  If not, I don't see how 100 new jobs warrant a massive skyscraper?

----------


## OKCisOK4me

> Are they already in OKC?  If not, I don't see how 100 new jobs warrant a massive skyscraper?


Basically the guy thought 100 jobs coming to OKC was pleasing news. He has more pleasing news to announce, which could be, "OKC is the official home of the taco". To someone else, that may be pleasing...

----------


## G.Walker

I am sure we will know sooner than later. If I remember correctly Steve new about Devon like a year before they officially announced. So Steve has probably known about this for a while, and for him to give out information to Will, must mean its coming close for official announcement. I wouldn't be surprised if its announced at the 2012 State of the City luncheon by the Mayor Cornett on Thursday!

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Who is "*he*"?


disregard .. i was doing other things while listening and he (wes bowen rep for Cameron was talking about cameron)

----------


## Oil Capital

> I know you love skyscrapers Thunder, but skyscrapers don't come easy to any city. If you do your research on skyscraper development in the U.S., most skyscrapers were built in major cities like LA, Dallas, and Houston in the 80's. Dallas is seeing its first skyscraper built over 500 feet, in 25 years. Houston just completed its first skyscraper downtown over 500 feet in 25 years! L.A. is just now starting to see proposal for new skyscrapers downtown 20 years, with exception to the L.A. Live Hotel just completed in 2010. With exception of cities like Austin, Miami, New York, and Chicago...skyscrapers are not a common development in cities. With that being said, to have two major skyscrapers completed within a 5 year span is very rare, especially for a city our size. I wouldn't expect no new skyscrapers/highrises after this next one for some time, not counting the new Sandridge Tower and CC Hotel.


All true, except downtown Houston has had at least 3 new 500+ footers built in the last 15 years, plus a couple more 450+ footers.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

> All true, except downtown Houston has had at least 3 new 500+ footers built in the last 15 years.


Did you wisk that off the top of your head or did you reference skyscraperpage within the last 20 minutes?

----------


## metro

> I am sure we will know sooner than later. If I remember correctly Steve new about Devon like a year before they officially announced. So Steve has probably known about this for a while, and for him to give out information to Will, must mean its coming close for official announcement. I wouldn't be surprised if its announced at the 2012 State of the City luncheon by the Mayor Cornett on Thursday!


 People on this site knew about the Devon rumors a year before it was announced, it wasn't exactly a surprise. Only the scope of the project was.

----------


## Thunder

Lets start talking about the new skyscraper. Where will it be the location? Somewhere already flat or to lose a structure?

----------


## Just the facts

> Are they already in OKC?  If not, I don't see how 100 new jobs warrant a massive skyscraper?


Yes they are already in OKC, but they don't need an offic tower,  They are an industrial user out by the airport.

----------


## king183

> Lets start talking about the new skyscraper. Where will it be the location? Somewhere already flat or to lose a structure?


It's going to be 1600 feet high, with 20 stories that jut out in a shape representative of the wings of a bald eagle (in an homage to our nation's symbol).  They will build it on top of the Cox Convention Center (sorry to those who want it torn down completey). The lower floors will have a really cool, gigantic fire pit where visitors can bring their own BBQ, cook it, and eat it. And when I say gigantic, I mean the fire will reach  up at least 10 stories.  Should be visible all the way from the Chesapeake Arena.  Sounds like a pretty cool destination. 

These are just rumors I've heard from people I know who know others.  

Other than that, I'll just wait for Steve to report on it when it's confirmed.

----------


## wschnitt

Maybe this ties into Steve's comments about the Century Century and some possible activity there.

----------


## wschnitt

_However_ I still believe the grassy patch Broadway and EKG split would be ideal.  It is already a huge patch, no streets would have to be torn up.

----------


## G.Walker

I wouldn't be surprised if its located on Preftakes block, he already has several demolition permits for buildings on that block, and its been a mystery for years. He stated he wanted to redevelop the whole block. he has enough room on the block to sell land to developer for skyscraper and enough room to do what he wants to do.

----------


## UnFrSaKn

Guys, just re-read the last ten posts on this page for a great example of how crazy rumors and ideas are born. Thunder, you don't help things. Where did terms like "invited" and "renderings" come from? I wasn't invited. I just asked to join the already scheduled meeting at Starbucks to meet Cooper Ross (who did the aerial photos that spread everywhere and weren't credited to him). Thunder you make it sound like Steve brought this model of some building and sat it on the table or something. We were there to meet Cooper and talk about the work he does (which is a lot more than just the few pictures posted here). All that was mentioned about a new building wasn't solid as far as I know but from the idea, it sounds amazing. When it is solid and confirmed, like the new SandRidge building, you'll hear about it.
I'd be lying if I said I didn't bring it up just to get a reaction. Nothing wrong with being excited. It's just amusing what some folks do on this forum. Ha, yeah and the idea I was invited to a secret meeting. I can't help it, that's just funny.

----------


## Skyline

> I'm kind of stirring the pot a little. *I'm not sure Steve knows all that much* but trust me, no one is more excite than Steve to get enough solid info and confirmation to bring the story to everyone.


Will there be news to announce soon or not?

----------


## Thunder

> Guys, just re-read the last ten posts on this page for a great example of how crazy rumors and ideas are born. Thunder, you don't help things. Where did terms like "invited" and "renderings" come from? I wasn't invited. I just asked to join the already scheduled meeting at Starbucks to meet Cooper Ross (who did the aerial photos that spread everywhere and weren't credited to him). Thunder you make it sound like Steve brought this model of some building and sat it on the table or something. We were there to meet Cooper and talk about the work he does (which is a lot more than just the few pictures posted here). All that was mentioned about a new building wasn't solid as far as I know but from the idea, it sounds amazing. When it is solid and confirmed, like the new SandRidge building, you'll hear about it.
> I'd be lying if I said I didn't bring it up just to get a reaction. Nothing wrong with being excited. It's just amusing what some folks do on this forum. Ha, yeah and the idea I was invited to a secret meeting. I can't help it, that's just funny.


William, you should've gone along with the fun and keep us guessing. It helps our creative minds. :-)  

Btw, I love the post. <3

----------


## Pete

At any rate, it sounds like this one mystery tower, a new SandRidge tower and a tall convention hotel all are in the works.

So, at least three new additions to the skyline within the next few years...  And I bet they'll be more.

----------


## G.Walker

> Did you wisk that off the top of your head or did you reference skyscraperpage within the last 20 minutes?


You are right, the first one completed in 2002, however, before that it was close to 20 years.

----------


## Just the facts

> At any rate, it sounds like this one mystery tower, a new SandRidge tower and a tall convention hotel all are in the works.
> 
> So, at least three new additions to the skyline within the next few years...  And I bet they'll be more.


Just wait until streetcar tracks start getting laid.  I think we will a huge surge in mid-rise residential/hotel buildings.

----------


## UnFrSaKn

As far as anyone knows, the details on another building are as vague as the details on the one SandRidge is building. How long have people rumored about that until Steve just confirmed it? Still there are no details. Give it time. The Devon complex still has like nine months left of construction. Don't let that be "old news".

----------


## G.Walker

But to tell people on OKCTALK that there is a possible new skyscraper in the works, and not give hints, is like throwing a Braum's Bacon Cheeseburger to a fat guy, and tell him not to eat it! lol

----------


## G.Walker

How much money would you be willing to pay for a ticket to the State of the City luncheon on Thursday, and sit at a reserved table with Roy Williams, Cathy O' Connor, Jim Couch, Mayor Cornett, and Larry Nichols? Pretty sure they will be talking about stuff we haven't even thought of yet!

----------


## kevinpate

> But to tell people on OKCTALK that there is a possible new skyscraper in the works, and not give hints, is like throwing a Braum's Bacon Cheeseburger to a fat guy, and tell him not to eat it! lol


Finally, an area of expertise for me.  I promise, it's nothing like that.  See, drop a building info morsel and folk here get short of breath, they get glazed eyes and start asking asking asking for more information.  

Set a BCB in front of a chub, and the chub will scarf it down and then smile and look up to see if it's maybe a 2fer day or if fries are coming fresh out of the basket.  Even if you meant to say don't eat it, you ain't likely to have time to finish that sentence.

8^)

----------


## Thunder

> But to tell people on OKCTALK that there is a possible new skyscraper in the works, and not give hints, is like throwing a Braum's Bacon Cheeseburger to a fat guy, and tell him not to eat it! lol


Don't worry about it. He was just having fun with us. Time will pass and announcement will be unexpected surprise. :-)

----------


## Skyline

> Just wait until streetcar tracks start getting laid.  I think we will a huge surge in mid-rise residential/hotel buildings.


Not holding my breath waiting on streetcar tracks to be laid.

----------


## Questor

Maybe this might be worth its own thread... but it might be fun to speculate who might use such a new skyscraper.  Would it be a move of a company?  Could it be a mixed use entity of some time?  Might it be a hotel?  If it were a company, who might that be?  Who in Oklahoma has a large enough presence or is growing in OKC quickly enough that they might want their own tower to consolidate operations?  What industries from out of town/state might be interested in moving here... energy?  Might be fun to discuss.

----------


## metro

> How much money would you be willing to pay for a ticket to the State of the City luncheon on Thursday, and sit at a reserved table with Roy Williams, Cathy O' Connor, Jim Couch, Mayor Cornett, and Larry Nichols? Pretty sure they will be talking about stuff we haven't even thought of yet!


Not much. Tickets are only like$50-$75 to begin with, and anyone can go. They aren't anyone exciting, have you heard the names you mentioned speak? All they like to do is retell the story of the original MAPS. These people don't leak insider information, and often info leaks here on OKCTALK before some of these city leaders hear of it.

----------


## BDP

Personally, I have seen so many "announcements" lead to nothing, that I am perfectly willing to wait for an official announcement, and then some insight from Steve as to how likely it is to happen as announced. And I think if you want to continue to get information from Steve, you'll want him to hold back. If he just told us everything he heard on the streets, the street would quickly become silent to him.

And honestly, imo, the best news we could get right now is that the quiet zone was going to happen. The more I think about it, the more it seems to be the last major barrier to more significant development downtown. Do that, and the emerging residential areas downtown suddenly become much more livable. At that point you may even begin to justify new residential construction of the vertical variety (gasp!).

I'm all for the speculation, but let's not be critical of Steve for treading lightly with his credibility. It is his livelihood, after all.

----------


## Steve

> Guys, just re-read the last ten posts on this page for a great example of how crazy rumors and ideas are born. Thunder, you don't help things. Where did terms like "invited" and "renderings" come from? I wasn't invited. I just asked to join the already scheduled meeting at Starbucks to meet Cooper Ross (who did the aerial photos that spread everywhere and weren't credited to him). Thunder you make it sound like Steve brought this model of some building and sat it on the table or something. We were there to meet Cooper and talk about the work he does (which is a lot more than just the few pictures posted here). All that was mentioned about a new building wasn't solid as far as I know but from the idea, it sounds amazing. When it is solid and confirmed, like the new SandRidge building, you'll hear about it.
> I'd be lying if I said I didn't bring it up just to get a reaction. Nothing wrong with being excited. It's just amusing what some folks do on this forum. Ha, yeah and the idea I was invited to a secret meeting. I can't help it, that's just funny.


Wow.
It's where reality-reality and online-reality diverge.
Will is one of the great people I've met through OKC Talk who I now count as a friend - a very talented one at that. Will and I had a great time looking at Cooper's work, and looking at Will's work, and comparing notes, getting to know Cooper better. I can't even imagine how any other impression was gathered about this meeting. And for what it's worth, if one were to compare what I know with what I've shared with this site, they'd be amazed at how forthcoming I've actually been. I really don't hold back that much.

----------


## G.Walker

> Maybe this might be worth its own thread... but it might be fun to speculate who might use such a new skyscraper.  Would it be a move of a company?  Could it be a mixed use entity of some time?  Might it be a hotel?  If it were a company, who might that be?  Who in Oklahoma has a large enough presence or is growing in OKC quickly enough that they might want their own tower to consolidate operations?  What industries from out of town/state might be interested in moving here... energy?  Might be fun to discuss.


Its not that hard to figure it out, put two and two together. American Fidelity has been talking for years about a downtown presence. Boeing is sending 1,000 jobs to Oklahoma City. Continental Resources is relocating downtown, and will triple in size, and out grow their space fast. I would bet it is one of these companies.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Its not that hard to figure it out, put two and two together. American Fidelity has been talking for years about a downtown presence. Boeing is sending 1,000 jobs to Oklahoma City. Continental Resources is relocating downtown, and will triple in size, and out grow their space fast. I would bet it is one of these companies.


or midfirst bank

----------


## Bellaboo

> That is not true. Other people sparked before I joined in. I simply got excited and followed. I didn't start the talks. I'm taking another break from here. Its wrong to point finger at me.


Thunder,

You are telling people over on Skyscrapercity to contact Steve Lackmeyer about this new tower.....you should not do that.

----------


## therondo

Yay!!!! Back to normal speculation and not the crazy, blown WAYYYYY out of proportion speculation!!!! The ridiculous statements are  starting to irk me!!!

----------


## Steve

> Thunder,
> 
> You are telling people over on Skyscrapercity to contact Steve Lackmeyer about this new tower.....you should not do that.


This is getting out of hand...

----------


## OKCisOK4me

> Thunder,
> 
> You are telling people over on Skyscrapercity to contact Steve Lackmeyer about this new tower.....you should not do that.


Geez, what a moron!

----------


## SharkSandwich

> or midfirst bank


Midfirst also makes sense in that: (1) their current buildings are apparently full; and (2) their current buildings sit right in the middle of the CHK campus.  I would imagine AKM has his eyes on painting them black very soon.

----------


## catch22

> Thunder,
> 
> You are telling people over on Skyscrapercity to contact Steve Lackmeyer about this new tower.....you should not do that.


Wow way to go Thunder. We are lucky Steve is nice enough to share a little information with us, unfortunately I think this action is going to blow it for us.

Looking forward to an official announcement.

----------


## MDot

> This is getting out of hand...


It's sad that you are kind enough to share with us that you might know of a new skyscraper and it gets blown out of proportions to the point that people out of state/country are being told to contact you to find out about this unofficial building. I really feel for you to be put in this situation just because you are an extremely nice reporter/man.

----------


## Richard at Remax

what's sad is people are getting so worked up about a building(s) that may or may not happen. there are bigger things to worry about in life. Devon Tower is cool. But it has zero impact on my every day life.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

> Midfirst also makes sense in that: (1) their current buildings are apparently full; and (2) their current buildings sit right in the middle of the CHK campus.  I would imagine AKM has his eyes on painting them black very soon.


***NOTE***  This is pure speculation.  I am not drinking Thunder's Koolaid. ***NOTE***

If this supposed tower were to be announced, how come we're all guessing which one company is going to be the anchor tenant.  Is there a reason why it can't be one-third American Fidelity (insert speculative company here), one-third Midfirst Bank (insert speculative company here), and one-third residential?

----------


## Pete

I would think that for any office building to get financing in today's climate they would have to have a sizable amount of space already pre-leased.

There seems to be a tremendous opportunity for a local company to build a large tower, occupy a decent portion and lease out the rest.  Of have a developer do it for them.


Think about how many huge office developments there were in the 80's and 90's and now there are almost zero.  We all know why:  overbuilt markets and a bad economy.  But there are still thousands of people that make their money as real estate developers and that are itching to get back into that business.  OKC is one of the very few markets where that may be possible.

----------


## MDot

I have nothing to support this but I just have a gut feeling that it's going to be Midfirst.

----------


## Pete

Remember American Fidelity was reported to be taking a hard look at downtown a number of years ago and things have only improved for them and the CBD since.  They certainly have not been investing in their current site as of late.

There have also been strong hints about a large new employer coming to town on the heels of the latest Boeing announcement.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

Gotta thank the positive economy of OKC!  Now, time to sit on this like a Buddha and wait in silence.

----------


## Bellaboo

I thought about 4 - 7 years ago that American Fidelity sold their 3 building campus to a real estate holding firm back East ?

Anyone else remember this or was this just a dream I had......?

----------


## G.Walker

> Remember American Fidelity was reported to be taking a hard look at downtown a number of years ago and things have only improved for them and the CBD since.  They certainly have not been investing in their current site as of late.
> 
> There have also been strong hints about a large new employer coming to town on the heels of the latest Boeing announcement.


I am putting my money on Boeing, they are the only logical choice, they just moved 1,000 jobs here, and it has yet to be announced where they are going to house those jobs. Cathy O' Connor stated back in the Summer of 2011, that she would like to see Boeing have a downtown presence, and that we shouldn't rule that out.  I think if AF wanted to move downtown they would have already. There is no way it could be Chesapeake, they are investing too much in their campus. Midfirst is too slow, I would think CHK would have bought them out already. My dark horse for my speculation is Continental Resources though....

----------


## Pete

In 1997 American Fidelity transferred all their real estate holdings to Eaton Enterprises but it wasn't a sale.  The Eaton address is just a PO Box in OKC.

Probably just a shift for tax purposes.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> I am putting my money on Boeing, they are the only logical choice, they just moved 1,000 jobs here, and it has yet to be announced where they are going to house those jobs. Cathy O' Connor stated back in the Summer of 2011, that she would like to see Boeing have a downtown presence, and that we shouldn't rule that out.  I think if AF wanted to move downtown they would have already. There is no way it could be Chesapeake, they are investing too much in their campus. Midfirst is too slow, I would think CHK would have bought them out already. My dark horse for my speculation is Continental Resources though....


boeing won't be building any thing in okc ... they don't own by tinker they lease ... 

they might be a tenent .. but they are not going to do the building

----------


## Bellaboo

> My dark horse for my speculation is Continental Resources though....


I could see this happen too. If you look at their expansion plans, in 4 or 5 years they would be more than 'busting at the seams'. They could be in the same boat Devon was floating in and they do have the capitol to build new.  

My guess is some corporation from the energy industry.

----------


## dmoor82

OKC had virtually NO vertical development since the mid 80's and as soon as we found out about Devon we went into skyscraper hysteria and now we want more.Devon came at us with 925ft' and I bet all of us would have been happy with 600'ft and now we are kinda spoiled by Devon and want more,Imagine what the OKC skyline will look like when we really start to boom.I can't wait!

----------


## G.Walker

Boeing is making a lot of moves right now, moving jobs all over the country, and they are about to construct a new regional headquarters in Crystal City, VA. 
http://www.arlnow.com/2011/10/19/boa...new-boeing-hq/

"The Boeing complex, *which the company will own instead of lease*, won’t provide the kind of active streetscape befitting a property so close to a multi-million dollar county park and recreation center, opponents said. Instead, the property will be largely closed off to the public; buildings will be set back from the sidewalk with no ground floor retail and no public-use parking spaces (which could have been utilized during special events at the park). Transportation Commission Chair Bill Gearhart called the complex, which will have 555 underground parking spaces, “auto-oriented” as opposed to transit-oriented. The Planning Commission called the architecture of the proposed buildings “mediocre.”

----------


## Pete

I still draw the parallel to Charlotte, where after the 871 foot BofA Tower was built in 1992, they have built six towers over 420 feet, including three over 650.

Before that, their tallest building was 588 feet; very similar to our Chase Tower at 500 feet.

----------


## BB37

> I am putting my money on Boeing, they are the only logical choice, they just moved 1,000 jobs here, and it has yet to be announced where they are going to house those jobs. Cathy O' Connor stated back in the Summer of 2011, that she would like to see Boeing have a downtown presence, and that we shouldn't rule that out.  I think if AF wanted to move downtown they would have already. There is no way it could be Chesapeake, they are investing too much in their campus. Midfirst is too slow, I would think CHK would have bought them out already. My dark horse for my speculation is Continental Resources though....


Why would Boeing want or need a downtown presence, when most/all their work here will be at Tinker?  Most of the jobs they're moving here are from production facilities in Long Beach and Wichita, not the kind of jobs that would fit in a downtown skyskraper.

----------


## G.Walker

We are already in a "boom" if we build CC Hotel, Mystery Skyscraper, and Sandridge Tower, that would be 4 significant high-rises/skyscrapers constructed in 5 years, if that's not a boom, then I don't know what is.

----------


## G.Walker

What would be really neat is if they all get started around the same time, and then we can foster the nickname Crane City!

----------


## king183

> Okay, I am not the expert (by any stretch) so for some of you, the very idea may not seem logical but I want to toss it out there as I was giving it some thought last night.
> 
> Is there any reason that the new CC hotel could not be a part of the new "mystery tower"?  Similar to the new Wilshire Grand I tower being built in LA.  Perhaps even a P3 that is even more similar to the Wilshire Grand Development in that it has more than one tower on the property, one of them being the CC hotel.


This is a good point.  It's possible the developer/company, whoever it is, would take advantage of the need for a CC hotel and build it themselves along with whatever space they need for their company.

It's an interesting thought, but every indication I'm getting says the CC hotel will be completely separate from the new tower, both structurally and ownership-wise.  But, again, who knows; it's a logical and practical idea.

----------


## Skyline

I will go with MidFirst Bank, it is the most logical. 

Any chance that CHK would want to purchase their existing headquarters?

----------


## Pete

It's been assumed that CHK would want the current MidFirst buildings because they own everything around them and sorely need office space -- so much so they've recently purchased four buildings miles from their campus.


MidFirst is very, very conservative though.  But they are a logical candidate.

----------


## Skyline

Midfirst is very conservative, but the way that CHK throws around money it could make it an easier decision to sell and build new.

----------


## G.Walker

Banks got hit the hardest during the recession, and are just now trying to regroup. I don't think MidFirst has the disposable income to spend on a new skyscraper. They are not that large of a bank outside of Oklahoma and Arizona. Now if it was a major bank like JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, then I would be thinking differently. That is why MidFirst is not the top of my list, they don't even have a Wikipedia for crying out loud!

----------


## Jchaser405

> I will go with MidFirst Bank, it is the most logical. 
> 
> Any chance that CHK would want to purchase their existing headquarters?


My guess is Midfirst also. When I worked at Midland Mortgage (office complex next to Midfirst) we were continually running out of space and sent people to other offices on Portland Ave. I think it would be great to consolidate both operations (baking/financing) under 1 roof.

----------


## Pete

MidFirst used to have all their operations in what is now the Dowell Center up through the 80's.

I don't think they owned that building, though.

----------


## king183

> Banks got hit the hardest during the recession, and are just now trying to regroup. I don't think MidFirst has the disposable income to spend on a new skyscraper. They are not that large of a bank outside of Oklahoma and Arizona. Now if it was a major bank like JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, then I would be thinking differently. That is why MidFirst is not the top of my list, they don't even have a Wikipedia for crying out loud!


I vaguely remember reading that MidFirst actually did well during the recession given their conservative investment strategy.  Anyone else recall that?

Either way, I don't think MidFirst is hurting and I know they're expanding relatively rapidly, thus making a new HQ downtown a logical guess.

----------


## Pete

Not to mention their CEO, Jeff Records, is a part owner of the Thunder with strong ties to the downtown community.

----------


## Jchaser405

> I vaguely remember reading that MidFirst actually did well during the recession given their conservative investment strategy.  Anyone else recall that?
> 
> Either way, I don't think MidFirst is hurting and I know they're expanding relatively rapidly, thus making a new HQ downtown a logical guess.


I remember pretty good bonuses during the recession. 
When I drove by the the Midfirst complex at night the other day and saw the lit up cranes at CHK in the background I couldn't help but think Midfirst won't be there much longer...

----------


## Skyline

> I vaguely remember reading that MidFirst actually did well during the recession given their conservative investment strategy.  Anyone else recall that?


Yes, I remember reading that too. They actually weathered the recession rather well, and have been experiencing growth. Again I don't think Midfirst builds new unless CHK purchases their existing building, which is almost inevitable. CHK could buy their building, the way that CHK buys properties and that is by making them an offer they can't refuse. If that were to happen Midfirst could easily build downtown and also make a huge statement of being a "Big League Bank", the official bank of the 2012 NBA World Champions the Okc Thunder.

----------


## O City or No City

well what I know about the future skyline is when the CC hotel gets built along with the other tower/s that will double our skyline (from view E/W ),assuming they are south of the new blvd.Doubling our downtown is what was described for 1 of the reasons to relocate I-40.For quick easy ref. look at the OKCTALK banner and imagine 2 buildings left of the Devon Tower.Thinking from that point  instead of height makes you get excited if you like shooting pics or vids of skylines because  thats what I got out of the "amazing " feeling  that was  posted.

----------


## skanaly

Wasn't Midfirst waiting until the Devon tower was finished? My guess it would be taller then Devon...?

----------


## mrktguy29

I speculated this awhile back after talking to a friend about OG&E and Enogex. Enogex is moving its offices from their current location at Lincoln and I44 - I know specifically of offices going into Leadership Square, not sure about any others or the size of the move. OG&E already had offices in LS, so I have to add them into the list of possibilities.

A side note... the above 10+ pages - help me Jesus. I keep a pretty good daily count on the updates and it was on page 4 last I read this thread. Sometimes silence is golden.

----------


## MDot

> A side note... the above 10+ pages - help me Jesus. I keep a pretty good daily count on the updates and it was on page 4 last I read this thread. Sometimes silence is golden.


The thread was merged together earlier today, it was at 7 pages when it was merged so we'd be at either the end of page 7 or beginning of page 8.

----------


## Thundercitizen

> If that were to happen Midfirst could easily build downtown and also make a huge statement of being a "Big League Bank", the official bank of the *2012 NBA World Champions the Okc Thunder*.


I like how you think!

----------


## CurtisJ

> I think it would be great to consolidate both operations (baking/financing) under 1 roof.


What a great buisiness plan, I would call it muffins and mortgages!

Sorry, had to.

----------


## ljbab728

> There is almost zero chance construction on an office tower of that size will be done on a spec basis.[/URL]


So you're guessing then.  That's what I figured.

----------


## ljbab728

http://newsok.com/devon-energys-move...rticle/3641165

----------


## dcsooner

OKC's DT office market still has excess capacity, not as much as before but excess as evidenced by the above article.  Unless a major corporate relocation occurs, I do not forsee a substantial new high rise build (start) this year. Maybe Sandridge or Continental builds a mid rise in the next 5 years.

----------


## okcpulse

> OKC's DT office market still has excess capacity, not as much as before but excess as evidenced by the above article.  Unless a major corporate relocation occurs, I do not forsee a substantial new high rise build this year. Maybe Sandridge or Continental builds a mid rise in the next 5 years.


That may be, but a large chuck of what Devon is vacating is Class C office space (First National Center).  Continental Resources grabbed Mid-America Tower, so it looks like our only concern is Chase Tower and Oklahoma Tower.  Both properties are Class A and don't have problems filling space.

I am still a big believer in not marketing Class C space.  And the bulk of Class C space is found in First National Center and City Place.  No modern, 21st Century company would ever occupy Class C space.  Why we even count it in our real estate inventory is beyond me by leaps and bounds.

The rumors are circulating around a substantial high-rise being announced this year, not being built this year.  But I will say, no confirmation has been given to whether these rumors are true.  Yet various sources, both reliable and unreliable, seem to be on the same page.  Either a local company is about to make a major real estate move, or an out-of-state relocation announcement is on the horizon.

Either way, the Oklahoma City trend is growth in owner-occupied space versus multi-tenant leased space.  They are both different animals.

----------


## G.Walker

> That may be, but a large chuck of what Devon is vacating is Class C office space (First National Center).  Continental Resources grabbed Mid-America Tower, so it looks like our only concern is Chase Tower and Oklahoma Tower.  Both properties are Class A and don't have problems filling space.
> 
> I am still a big believer in not marketing Class C space.  And the bulk of Class C space is found in First National Center and City Place.  No modern, 21st Century company would ever occupy Class C space.  Why we even count it in our real estate inventory is beyond me by leaps and bounds.
> 
> The rumors are circulating around a substantial high-rise being announced this year, not being built this year.  But I will say, no confirmation has been given to whether these rumors are true.  Yet various sources, both reliable and unreliable, seem to be on the same page.  Either a local company is about to make a major real estate move, or an out-of-state relocation announcement is on the horizon.
> 
> Either way, the Oklahoma City trend is growth in owner-occupied space versus multi-tenant leased space.  They are both different animals.


+1

----------


## Pete

Yes, at this point I don't even count First National as vacancy and of course Devon's old building is already spoken for.

That leaves decent chunks in both Chase and Oklahoma Towers but I bet all that space will fill pretty easily over the next couple of years.  It's still very reasonable compared to new construction or other downtowns around the country.

If a new building was announced today, all that space would likely be absorbed long before it was even open for business.  And besides, it's likely employers like Sandridge and Continental will need to lease space even if they decide to build their own buildings, at least in the shorter term.

----------


## G.Walker

> Yes, at this point I don't even count First National as vacancy and of course Devon's old building is already spoken for.
> 
> That leaves decent chunks in both Chase and Oklahoma Towers but I bet all that space will fill pretty easily over the next couple of years.  It's still very reasonable compared to new construction or other downtowns around the country.
> 
> If a new building was announced today, all that space would likely be absorbed long before it was even open for business.  And besides, it's likely employers like Sandridge and Continental will need to lease space even if they decide to build their own buildings, at least in the shorter term.


Moreover, the article stated that of the 800,000 or so sqft that will be vacated, 200,000 of it is pretty much spoken for. But they didn't mention who will lease it. So that leaves about 600,000 sqft for space, but a portion of that is Class B/C, so its really not that bad.

----------


## SharkSandwich

Devon also currently has space in Corporate Tower that will be vacated with the move.

----------


## Jesseda

I think this is very exciting about getting new buildings in downtown. So except for the new future sandridge and the future building steve talked about. What other buildings are being built in okc or might be built soon?

----------


## G.Walker

The CC Hotel, Sandridge Tower, and Mystery Skyscraper more than likely will happen and start construction before 2015. Besides that, I could see coupe high-rise hotels thrown in the mix, and possibly a high-rise condo to support the new high-paying employees that will be working downtown.

----------


## Jesseda

I know im asking a stupid question, but I have no clue about  a CC Hotel? how tall is this going to be and what does CC stand for?

----------


## Teo9969

Jesseda,

If I understand correctly, there are no buildings that are currently "in the works". By "in the works" I mean to say that there are no buildings for which we have renderings, financial figures, and substantive plans and dates to move forward with (like what Devon released in Spring 2008). That's not to say that nobody is planning anything. There could be 10 buildings being planned by various companies, but nobody has come out and said "We are going to spend $X to build a structure Y feet tall, and it will be completed by Z date." Until that happens, I think we would do well to not assume that there are buildings going to be built, even if it is likely for that to come to fruition (Sandridge being the best example).

----------


## Just the facts

> I know im asking a stupid question, but I have no clue about  a CC Hotel? how tall is this going to be and what does CC stand for?


CC stands for Convention Center..  There are no height or location details yet but according to the Chamber study it will need at least 600 rooms and around 50,000 sq feet of meeting space.  If they got 20 rooms per floor then it would by 30 floors of rooms, plus a lobby, plus a meeting level, plus a mechanical level, plus a food service level.  So all in all - maybe 34 to 35 stories if it is 600 rooms.  Each 100 rooms in addition would add 5 floors so 800 rooms would top out at 45 stories.  Since it is a hotel with lower ceiling heights it would come in somewhere between Sandridge and Chase.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Jesseda,
> 
> If I understand correctly, there are no buildings that are currently "in the works". By "in the works" I mean to say that there are no buildings for which we have renderings, financial figures, and substantive plans and dates to move forward with (like what Devon released in Spring 2008). That's not to say that nobody is planning anything. There could be 10 buildings being planned by various companies, but nobody has come out and said "We are going to spend $X to build a structure Y feet tall, and it will be completed by Z date." Until that happens, I think we would do well to not assume that there are buildings going to be built, even if it is likely for that to come to fruition (Sandridge being the best example).


sandridge has already said they are bulding a new tower in the near future 

and their will be a CC hotel .....

----------


## Teo9969

> sandridge has already said they are bulding a new tower in the near future 
> 
> and their will be a CC hotel .....


Right and I believe Sandridge and others have those intentions. However, they have no public plans to do so. There's no harm in waiting to see renderings and figures and estimated dates to say buildings are in the works.

----------


## O City or No City

hey guys I did not want to post a conversation I had with a worker at the devon site in coney island because I know you guys are very serious and I didn't wanna get laughed out of OKCTALK but since others are coming forward  here it goes.


WARNING THIS INFORMATION HAS A LOW GRADE OF CREDITABLITY........


I was downtown 2 months ago and went to coney island for some chili dogs it was a busy lunch crowd as usual .I was in line with some devon workers he said he loved the hotdogs..i said too bad the tower is almost finished you want have a reason to be downtown that often anymore if at all. he said not really because there are more towers(more than 2) to be built in OKC matter of fact in the next 3-5 years the chase will be the third tallest building in OKC and devon will be the second.....so maybe a supertall ?

----------


## dankrutka

> WARNING THIS INFORMATION HAS A LOW GRADE OF CREDITABLITY........


It seems like everyone has a poor credit rating these days. Ba boom.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

Not gonna laugh at you... love the screenname BTW. Will wait for confirmation...

----------


## dankrutka

> Will wait for confirmation...


Awesome! Keep us updated on how that's going! BA boom!  :Wink:

----------


## G.Walker

Too many rumors going around to say nothing is in the works. Depending on who is building the skyscraper will determine how soon we will know. For example, Chesapeake is real quiet about announcing their developments, with that being said, if Chesapeake just so happens to build a skyscraper downtown, we probably wouldn't know until they are actually breaking ground.

----------


## Just the facts

I just don't understand why people think Chesapeake would build a large downtoown offic building.  They have spent a fortune on their campus and built a shopping center that caters to their employees.  What would they do with all that suburban space if they moved?

----------


## G.Walker

Think outside the box, if Chesapeake builds a skyscraper, it doesn't necessary mean its for Chesapeake. Chesapeake has been real good about luring NEW retail to the area, with Whole Foods, Anthropologie, etc....Whose to say that they can't lure a company here, build and own a skyscraper for that particular company and lease it out? Chesapeake Land Development Company has a lot of clout! For example they own a nice skyscraper in Ft. Worth, but Pier 1 Imports in the dominant tenant in that building.

----------


## SharkSandwich

> I just don't understand why people think Chesapeake would build a large downtoown offic building.  They have spent a fortune on their campus and built a shopping center that caters to their employees.  What would they do with all that suburban space if they moved?


CHK also is constantly acquiring large interests in other companies such as drilling, fracking, and other E&P technologies.  It could be that they actually would like a central hub for these companies off-site from their campus.

----------


## G.Walker

> I just don't understand why people think Chesapeake would build a large downtoown offic building.  They have spent a fortune on their campus and built a shopping center that caters to their employees.  What would they do with all that suburban space if they moved?


I watched this video from Aubrey, and he was really talking about Oklahoma City's downtown core viability, almost has if he wanted to invest in downtown soon! Watch the video _Our Strong, Growing Downtown_

http://www.greaterokc.tv/#/home/list/dosortsearch,3801

----------


## Pete

Yes, interesting that McClendon would be chosen to talk about downtown and it's clear he sees it as extremely important for the entire community.

And remember, CHK has already invested heavily in downtown:  1) They originally purchased the old Kerr McGee building and brokered the deal for SandRidge; 2) They helped build the first boathouse and paid for the finish line tower and Aubrey himself has pledged a bunch of money for the OU boathouse; 3) They are helping pay for the makeover for Kerr Park; 4) Aubrey owns a big chunk of the Thunder; and 5) They recently secured the naming rights for the arena.  And I know there are more things that I can't think off the top my head.

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that CHK would build a large downtown structure.  They have sunk a ton of money into local real estate that isn't necessarily related to their corporate campus.  They have a separate real estate arm and obviously now have lots of experience as a developer, investor and landlord.

Also remember that they own quite a large building in downtown Fort Worth.

They are also competitive and high-profile and they are probably feeling a bit left out with their big competitors making such a big mark downtown.  I could see them putting up a large office building to help with their campus overflow and/or to house spin-offs, business partners or just to have a big chunk of space to help lure more companies.

Aubrey & CHK think big and thus far have really delivered.  I would love to see them bring some of that bravado and make a big splash on downtown skyline.

----------


## Jesseda

Okay, I am just repeating what was told to me last night. I went to church and there is a man that goes to my church, I did not know unitl last week that he works on the devon tower. I brought it up to him about a rumor of another possible tower. He told me his co-workers have been talking about  one that is planned for downtown to have 40 floors! wonder if this is going to be true? Just passing along what was told to me.

----------


## G.Walker

One Chesapeake Place? Chesapeake Tower? I remember awhile back someone also mentioned that they wanted to increase their Oklahoma City workforce to about 6,000! Therefore, if only 3,000 is in Oklahoma City now, they are constructing office buildings now on campus to house about 1,000 employees. So where is the other 2,000 going to go?

----------


## Pete

There seems to be a lot of smoke around a 40-story tower, although I realize it may be the same false rumor just being passed around.  It may very also be the same building Steve has been hinting at.

But if you do the math for a modern 40-floor building, the total height would be around 680 feet, which would slot it nicely between Devon (850) and Chase (500).

----------


## Jesseda

I would have asked him more questions about what other things that his co-workers have been saying about the 40 story building, but i didnt want to come off as a nutball to him lol. I hope it turns out to be true, actually I hope all the rumors about new buildings that might be planned come true. I will say it again. it is a exciting time for okc

----------


## Teo9969

It seems like with many of the rumors that Devon finishing the tower is a key component of when we will hear an announcement. That, to me, seems fair. As soon as Devon finishes the outside of the tower, cranes come down, and they go live with the LEDs on the outside of the tower, I think Devon will have it's big media splash for finally being finished, people will applaud them, and there will be a moment of "silence". After a brief period, I think a new Tower would be announced.

I think whoever is building the next tower wants to let Devon have it's moment of glory for being the first to step up when it comes to building big downtown. That to me also shows that whoever is building downtown (if all the rumors are true) is a local company that has implicit respect for Devon.

----------


## BDP

> Chesapeake Land Development Company has a lot of clout!


This is true. This is kind of starting to make sense. IF, and that's a big IF, anyone was going to build build vertical spec space in this city, it would probably be them. I am not real estate expert, but if there is a growing demand for Class A space downtown, I would assume they have a pulse on it. In addition, I am sure CHK could use a chunk of it for themselves either for temporary space as they expand their northside campus or for other acquired operations. If the market does absorb Devon's space quickly, this could be a decent play and CHK kind of makes sense to do it just because they can mitigate possible soft market demand with their own needs.

----------


## BDP

> I think whoever is building the next tower wants to let Devon have it's moment of glory for being the first to step up when it comes to building big downtown. That to me also shows that whoever is building downtown (if all the rumors are true) is a local company that has implicit respect for Devon.


Well, I am sure there is also a business end to that. Once Devon actually moves, we should know pretty quickly how healthy the downtown real estate market really is (or isn't). And whoever is contemplating building downtown will know before we do. If all indications are that it's going to be snatched up quickly, building downtown really begins to make a lot of sense and not just for ego.

----------


## Pete

CHK is also willing to splash out big bucks on real estate, as we all know.

There is clearly a combined effort on the part of Tom Ward, Larry Nichols, Aubrey McClendon and no doubt now Harold Hamm to bring more energy companies downtown.  There are synergies at play that help everyone.

If I was part of that group and wanted to do something to help lure companies (or help the existing ones grow) and to make a big impact on the future of OKC, I would put together an investment group and build a large office tower.  That may indeed be exactly what is happening here.

----------


## G.Walker

Not to mention, CHK is snatching up all the Class A office space left in the city, Caliber Center, Central Park One & Two. I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up purchasing Oklahoma Tower!

----------


## G.Walker

I am going to throw this out there, what if Devon was building a spec office tower on the Preftakes block? The reason I say this is because, most of the rumors I am hearing are resulting from Devon construction workers. How else would they know so much about a possible new skyscraper, and it seems all their statements about the same.  Moreover, everybody keep saying after Devon Tower is completed, then the new tower will be announced. To me, it seems that Devon has a hand in this. They probably told Flintco construction workers not to get too comfortable, they have more work ahead!

----------


## dankrutka

There are lot of possible explanations. I'm not sure that a lot of these scenarios being thrown out are any more ridiculous than Thunder's recent comments. People are getting pretty far ahead of themselves based on pure speculation. Everyone seems to now be certain a "mystery" skyscraper is going up. These projects fall through half the time even when there are public plans known. There's not even any solid information at this point.

----------


## SharkSandwich

> I am going to throw this out there, what if Devon was building a spec office tower on the Preftakes block? The reason I say this is because, most of the rumors I am hearing are resulting from Devon construction workers. How else would they know so much about a possible new skyscraper, and it seems all their statements about the same.  Moreover, everybody keep saying after Devon Tower is completed, then the new tower will be announced. To me, it seems that Devon has a hand in this. They probably told Flintco construction workers not to get too comfortable, they have more work ahead!


While I'm sure Larry Nichols is involved in the overall development plans as an insider, I doubt Devon is involved financially.  I would guess the construction workers are getting antsy about working once the Devon tower is completed.  I wouldn't be surprised if they are hearing nuggets/rumors from their managers to calm their fears and keep crews intact for the future.

----------


## G.Walker

There is nothing wrong with speculation, and having an imagination. OKCTALK would not exist if there were was no speculation.

----------


## Pete

Agreed!  Speculation can be interesting, especially when there is decent support for it.


People may forget that we had a pretty good handle on Devon Tower long before it was ever announced.  I think we started talking about them building something a couple of years before and then narrowed down the site about a year later.  Not long after I had lead information about the tower, garden wing and rotunda.

----------


## coov23

Isn't there a big company that okc has supposedly lured that will be announced sometime this year? Could that not have anything to do with it? Just wondering. 

Note: I'm not talking about Boeing. It was talked about bigger things other than Boeing moving to okc corporation wise. As in headquarters.

----------


## Bellaboo

> Isn't there a big company that okc has supposedly lured that will be announced sometime this year? Could that not have anything to do with it? Just wondering. 
> 
> Note: I'm not talking about Boeing. It was talked about bigger things other than Boeing moving to okc corporation wise. As in headquarters.


King183 said something to this nature over on the Boeing thread I believe.

----------


## Pete

> Isn't there a big company that okc has supposedly lured that will be announced sometime this year? Could that not have anything to do with it? Just wondering. 
> 
> Note: I'm not talking about Boeing. It was talked about bigger things other than Boeing moving to okc corporation wise. As in headquarters.


Could very well be.

There are only rumors at this point but the Chamber is definitely wooing something big and has a decent amount of confidence around it.

----------


## Skyline

It's been awhile since we have seen this many rumors floating around.

----------


## dankrutka

Well, maybe you will all turn out correct. I hope so... where there's smoke there's fire, right?

----------


## Pete

It also makes logical sense given recent events and trends.

OKC is going to need a good chunk of Class A office space very soon so I hope someone has something in the works, otherwise there will be a big lull in downtown employers of any size.

If and when this is officially announced -- which is not likely to happen until the latter part of the year, at the earliest -- it would be at least two years before the space was actually open for business.

I sincerely hope there are developers/investors out ahead of this.

----------


## G.Walker

To put an official announcement in a Devon Tower perspective. Steve broke the story in 03/2008, renderings released 08/2008, ground breaking 10/2009.  Steve can break a story about the new tower without renderings any time, if he has permission to do so by the company, and break another story with renderings later. I think he will break the story within the next 6 months, and will probably see renderings at that same time, and construction starting mid 2013.

----------


## Jesseda

I wonder if this will be affecting downtown okc. From the norman transcript "In addition, the Norman Economic Development Coalition has purchased around 30 acres and may purchase another 30 to 40 acres for an “airline-related business,” Francisco said....................... Hmmmmmmmm wonder if Boeing is tied into this as well?

----------


## SharkSandwich

> Could very well be.
> 
> There are only rumors at this point but the Chamber is definitely wooing something big and has a decent amount of confidence around it.


Judging by the current push by the chamber  to eliminate (or significantly reduce) the state income tax during this legislative session, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the last piece of the puzzle in luring the new mystery corporate headquarters.

----------


## BDP

> Judging by the current push by the chamber  to eliminate (or significantly reduce) the state income tax during this legislative session, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the last piece of the puzzle in luring the new mystery corporate headquarters.


That probably depends on what mechanisms are used to replace it. Income tax is at least deductible at the federal level. Things like sales tax and use taxes that would likely increase to cover the gaps are not. So, it could effectively be an increase for many.

----------


## Thundercitizen

> Hmmmmmmmm wonder if Boeing is tied into this as well?


Maybe, but Boeing is still in the construction phase of an 8-10 story building on Air Depot, just south of the Tinker south gate. Not real tall but the footprint is sizeable...and it's adjacent to their existing 4-5 story office building.

----------


## Teo9969

Shanghai

1990



2010

Just absolutely insane.

----------


## MDot

..........

----------


## G.Walker

China to get an new skyscraper every five days for three years!:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ree-years.html

China builds 30 Story Skyscraper in 2 weeks!

http://io9.com/5873966/china-builds-...ely-in-2-weeks

----------


## Urbanized

OK, those photos are straight-up incredible. They're even more amazing if you take the time to locate the few buildings from the old photo left over in the new.

----------


## UnFrSaKn



----------


## Thundercitizen

That is incredible, even for an ugly box.  Might be able to withstand a magnitude 9 quake, but a gentle Oklahoma breeze would probably make them have to build their second building in a month.

----------


## UnFrSaKn



----------


## Thundercitizen

I remember watching the Chase bldg being constructed when I played baseball for the SW Optimist Tigers at Okie Field.
Also remember watching the demolition of Hotel Black from the roof of my house.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

> 


How come City Place has a bottle of Vodka on top of it?

----------


## Bellaboo

> How come City Place has a bottle of Vodka on top of it?


I actually think that was a rotating clock........but it does look like vodka.

----------


## Snowman

> How come City Place has a bottle of Vodka on top of it?


lol, Could be a sign for Pops expanding.

----------


## Thundercitizen

If I remember right, I think they had a giant lighted sign atop the bldg...so you knew the temp and time, etc.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

Actually I saw an old pic of it in another thread that Will had posted... it was a big sign that said Liberty in cursive letters.

----------


## UnFrSaKn



----------


## Fantastic

These pics make me happy...

----------


## Thundercitizen

Like Shanghai's before pictures.

----------


## skanaly

Whats the date on these pictures?

----------


## Just the facts

> Actually I saw an old pic of it in another thread that Will had posted... it was a big sign that said Liberty in cursive letters.


By 1982 that sign had been removed and replaced with a digital time and temperature display.  It was big enough you could read it from a long way off.

----------


## okcpulse

> Whats the date on these pictures?


On the first picture, Sandridge Tower (former Kerr McGee Tower) was completed in 1973.  In this picture, the tower was under construction.  Chase Tower was completed in 1971, and as you see the Chase Tower (formerly Liberty Tower) is finished.  That places the date of this picture as being taken in ~1972.

The remainder of the pictures are slightly more challenging, all being taken prior to the 1970s.  Some look to be dated back to the 1940s.  One of those pictures appears to be in the 1960s based on the facade of two of the midrises.

----------


## Sheetkeecker

My Mom told me that there was a light on top of the Liberty Tower many years ago that would change colors (neon, I guess) and it would tell when the weather was changing. Anyone know about this? Sounded cool to me. She also said there was some big light on top of the First national bldg.

----------


## Thundercitizen

> By 1982 that sign had been removed and replaced with a digital time and temperature display.  It was big enough you could read it from a long way off.


Thank you. Knew I'd seen it.  Wasn't up very long, though...I think.

----------


## Bellaboo

> My Mom told me that there was a light on top of the Liberty Tower many years ago that would change colors (neon, I guess) and it would tell when the weather was changing. Anyone know about this? Sounded cool to me. She also said there was some big light on top of the First national bldg.


The light on top of the First National was a rotating beacon. It could be seen from the town of Okarche, northwest of here about 25 miles.

----------


## Urbanized

Hey! It's the view from the new I-40!

----------


## Fantastic

> Hey! It's the view from the new I-40!


I would like to see a comparison shot from the same angle.

----------


## ljbab728

> I would like to see a comparison shot from the same angle.


That pic is obviously from much further south than the new I40.  I'd say it's from south of the river maybe near Stockyards City.  The rail line runs around SW 19th and 20th in that area.

----------


## Fantastic

> That pic is obviously from much further south than the new I40.  I'd say it's from south of the river maybe near Stockyards City.  The rail line runs around SW 19th and 20th in that area.


Yes there are rail lines around Stockyards City, but the rail lines in this photo appear to be the ones that run right along the new I-40.  If these were the rail lines in Stockyards City, from this angle they would appear to be running towards downtown, rather than along side it.

----------


## ljbab728

> Yes there are rail lines around Stockyards City, but the rail lines in this photo appear to be the ones that run right along the new I-40.  If these were the rail lines in Stockyards City, from this angle they would appear to be running towards downtown, rather than along side it.


No, this is further south.  There is a line which runs from SW to NE from Stockyards City towards downtown but there is also one that runs along the south side of Stockyards City along 19th and 20th from west to east.  It goes along the south side of Wiley Post Park before turning back north to downtown.  The rail line on the south side of downtown is only about 9 block south of the First National Building at most.  This is much further south.

----------


## Fantastic

Agree to disagree?  Either way, I'm sure you'd agree seeing a shot of today's skyline from the same angle compared to this one would be pretty cool

----------


## ljbab728

> Agree to disagree?  Either way, I'm sure you'd agree seeing a shot of today's skyline from the same angle compared to this one would be pretty cool


Any angle of today's skyline is nice to look at Fantastic.  I agree that we disagree about that picture though.  The lines in that picture run from west to east. The rail line on the south side of downtown by the Union Station runs just south of SW 7th Street.  When it goes west it has a spur that either goes southwest towards Stockyards City or turns more towards the northwest and then later west and runs generally between Reno and NW 10th.  That rail line in the picture is much further south.

----------


## BDK

> My Mom told me that there was a light on top of the Liberty Tower many years ago that would change colors (neon, I guess) and it would tell when the weather was changing. Anyone know about this? Sounded cool to me. She also said there was some big light on top of the First national bldg.


I'd be really interested in pictures of this if somebody knows where to track them down. I did a google image search without much luck.

----------


## UnFrSaKn

> I'd be really interested in pictures of this if somebody knows where to track them down. I did a google image search without much luck.


Yep... posted them in the First National thread. CityPlace was known as "Liberty" once. Do you mean that or Liberty (Chase) Tower? CityPlace had a rotating sign of some sort that was digital and told the temperature and time.

----------


## KayneMo

Just a fantasy thought here, but could an addition be built on top of Robinson Plaza (directly north of the Colcord)? That would a nice fill-in if it was raised to around 500 or so feet.

----------


## Bellaboo

> Just a fantasy thought here, but could an addition be built on top of Robinson Plaza (directly north of the Colcord)? That would a nice fill-in if it was raised to around 500 or so feet.


Don't know about this one Kaynmo, but over just to the West of the Skirvin Hotel, the all black with vertical white outlined building, originally called Skirvin Tower (not sure of current name), had elevator shafts added back in the early '80's. It was going to be doubled in height from 14 floors up to 28. I thought that would have been a nice improvement.

Then the oil bust and you know how those go.

----------


## UnFrSaKn

101 Park Avenue.

----------


## KayneMo

That would've been an amazing improvement! Hopefully it'll still be doubled in height soon, lol. Or tripled, either one.

----------


## HOT ROD

ok, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading everyone's posts in this thread and like Sid - admiring my hometown of OKC, from Seattle. I understand that the thread is for us to speculate on the future of downtown and try to come up with 'facts' or rumors to support our speculation; there have been some great ideas tossed out and some seem to be quite credible or at least feasible. 

We already know the SandRidge Activity Center and Braniff Buildings are U/C (or soon to be) and the CC Hotel is going to happen. I think those are 3 at least mid-rise infills that we can count on. But allow me to speculate on the not previously announced but highly anticipated tower(s) and what I think might happen, based on what has been posted here so far. I think there could be multiple new towers coming online in the next few years, but I will speak specifically of the 'speculative' tower that everyone has been talking about. 

I would venture to guess that indeed Chesapeake could be the developer and perhaps lease some space, but the tower would be large enough to house a new corporate headquarters moving to Oklahoma City. As was mentioned, Chesapeake and Aubrey are huge OKC proponents and have the cash and will to develop downtown and even sit on the property - look at what happened with the Thunder for an example (overpaid 360M + 35M + relocation and major corporate sponsorships). I would certainly believe, if true, that Aubrey WOULD wait on Devon to finish and debut; let the smoke clear, then create their own spotlight. And I could also see it being announced as a supertall and possibly have a retail component. I would totally believe this to be true if all of sudden the Convention Center is moved and somebody else buys the Ford site land. .....

I could also see Chesapeake being the developer of a building for MidFirst bank. Again, they have the cash and will to do it and it could be just what is needed to seal the deal for getting MidFirst to move. Being they are conservative, they may not be willing to sink money so quickly into a new tower - but what if Chesapeake did and they either bought it or leased it back from Chesapeake Real Estate? It could be another local company, like AFA or a combination (with a taller tower). ..

One final thought that crossed my mind but still involves Chesapeake Real Estate. Continental bought MidAmerica Tower, but really that building would be the perfect size for Boeing. I know Boeing already has a building at TIK and is building another one twice as tall. But, those two buildings will hold all of the announced employees that are tied to the programs already moved to TIK. This does NOT include the new engineering and management jobs from Wichita, whose physical work will be done in San Antonio. .... Remember, the engineering and management jobs are moving to OKC, the mft/maintenance jobs are NOT (they are moving to San Antonio). So there is NO reason the new 1000+ Wichita jobs would NEED to be located at TIK. Mid America tower is the perfect size for a Boeing-style 1000 person operation (I used to work at Boeing as a manager and engineer). In the Seattle suburbs, Boeing has office buildings just outside of the plants where Engineers and managers sit. Im thinking most specifically of the 40-87 and 40-88 buildings in Everett where I used to office. Put the two together, and you have about 300,000 sq feet which is the same size as Mid America. In this case, perhaps Chesapeake could build a new tower(s) and act as a holding company (see KerrMcGee tower/Sandridge) for Continental while Boeing purchased or leased Mid America. If true, this would be a Regional Hq office and we could see the Boeing shoosh on top of MAT? ...

It could be any of these, or somebody new, or all - but one thing I see as common IS Chesapeake Real Estate LTD or whatever their official name is. Again, they are big on OKC and they have the money and will to make things happen and wait for it to mature. I think Chesapeake WILL be involved with downtown in some way or form and this is a good thing to have in your city. Again, Devon chose to stay and hinted at Downtown becoming a major player in the nation's Energy Hq. .... 

Not to be outdone by Devon, it (or one of the new towers) could be a supertall, particularly if it is an incubator or holding office space situation for Chesapeake. Just think of the sign that might go on top (and Devon wont have a sign), lol.

Im as in the dark as anyone but I bet something along these lines might come to fruition. Somehow, Chesapeake is involved. Kudos to Aubrey McClendon and Chesapeake for staying true to Oklahoma City in a very big way. Wouldn't it be nice if they are indeed involved in all of these cases. (dreaming)

Im so proud of OKC, it is nice to be able to speculate on the growth of downtown and likely be in the ballpark of what will happen. I look forward to the future (especially the near) of OKC, Good Times indeed! 

Continue the Renaissance!

----------


## dankrutka

> I forgot you were here in Seattle.  We should do coffee and chat about OKC.


You really are in Seattle.

----------


## Thundercitizen

> Im so proud of OKC, it is nice to be able to speculate on the growth of downtown and likely be in the ballpark of what will happen. I look forward to the future (especially the near) of OKC, Good Times indeed! 
> 
> Continue the Renaissance!


 Okay, you've got me all pumped up, now.  I share your pride. I've traveled to several places around the nation and the world trying to be a good ambassador. I've attempted to educate co-workers about OKC and it's inhabitants and debunk some stereotypes over the last nearly 30 years...obviously to include before the renaissance. Now, I can include pictures and plans! In a lot of cases, the Thunder have done it for me.

----------


## HOT ROD

Totally agree about that Thundercitizen. I have been worldwide as well and have often noted my hometown which is almost immediately recognized for the Thunder or the bombing. In my numerous trips to China, any mention of OKC immediately draws up the Thunder and KD. The television broadcasts DEFINITELy are helping in that regard. ....

Sid, Im actually not a coffee drinker believe it or not but I work downtown at Nordstrom corporate offices. Guys, I'll do my part to get OKC on the radar of Nordstrom, I hear there is work being considered for at least a Nordstrom Rack or two but I can't say more than that. ...

It is good to see so many fellow OKC Expats around the country, supporting the city or at least informing people of the renaissance taking place.

----------


## HOT ROD

> 


How about this for a before and after (pic also from UnFrSaKn):

----------


## Urbanized

I was being more snarky than literal. I was jokingly making reference to the skyline being a mere speck on the horizon with lots of ramshackle industrial trash in between the viewer and downtown.

----------


## Fantastic

> How about this for a before and after (pic also from UnFrSaKn):


Awsome!!!  Perfect comparison.

----------


## edcrunk

...i can't figure out how to delete this post.


my bad.

----------


## Teo9969

Does anyone else think that the Chase building actually gains more appeal with Devon now in the skyline...and I think it would be even more appealing if another building were built (height wise) between Devon and Chase. No offense to anyone who loves Chase tower, but it's a horrendous building to be the tallest in the skyline. Now it seems to be gaining a wonderful element of contrast with a lot of the other downtown buildings. It's the darkest building downtown and the most "bland". It seems in that negativity it sticks out more as a pleasant change of pace.

----------


## G.Walker

> Does anyone else think that the Chase building actually gains more appeal with Devon now in the skyline...and I think it would be even more appealing if another building were built (height wise) between Devon and Chase. No offense to anyone who loves Chase tower, but it's a horrendous building to be the tallest in the skyline. Now it seems to be gaining a wonderful element of contrast with a lot of the other downtown buildings. It's the darkest building downtown and the most "bland". It seems in that negativity it sticks out more as a pleasant change of pace.


Yes, it would be cool if they renovated the Chase building with a modern facade, it would work wonders for the skyline.

----------


## Thundercitizen

> Does anyone else think that the Chase building actually gains more appeal with Devon now in the skyline...


Ha.  Yes, it looks better when you don't stare directly at it. 
The Devon Tower is a nice distraction making the Chase tower "underbrush".

----------


## Bellaboo

The energy industry is the driving force behind the major activity in downtown construction so far. Lets take a look back to the late 70's and early 80's at the last energy boom cycle. We had 4 major structures built, Mid-America, Corporate Tower, Oklahoma Tower and North and South Leadership Square. I know that the Robinson Ren. building was refurbished during this time also. I might have missed a few, but lets keep in mind that this energy boom is predicted to be stronger and larger than the last one.  

Here's justification we'll see more and larger projects during this cycle. There's good reason for the rumors.

----------


## Pete

Interestingly, that last building flurry was all done by developers, not the energy companies themselves.

Big change this time around although at least some semi-speculative development will probably still happen down the road.

----------


## MDot

> The energy industry is the driving force behind the major activity in downtown construction so far. Lets take a look back to the late 70's and early 80's at the last energy boom cycle. We had 4 major structures built, Mid-America, Corporate Tower, Oklahoma Tower and North and South Leadership Square. I know that the Robinson Ren. building was refurbished during this time also. I might have missed a few, but lets keep in mind that this energy boom is predicted to be stronger and larger than the last one.  
> 
> Here's justification we'll see more and larger projects during this cycle. There's good reason for the rumors.


One thing that is definately different from the last go around is taller buildings (if the rumoured 40-story comes true) are being built. I wasn't here for the last energy boom but I can drive along I-40 and see some of the effects of it, and not to get ahead of myself but it makes me wonder what we will see in the next 30-40 years because we know it isn't going to be another 27 years before another significant bulding is built, it may be as soon as next year when the next "significant" tower breaks ground.

----------


## G.Walker

After CC Hotel, Sandridge Tower, and Mystery Tower (Owner-Occupant) are built, I wouldn't expect any significant skyscrapers built at least for another 10 years. But we would still have a decent skyline for a metro area of only 1.3M. I would expect most of the focus after 2015 to shift to Core 2 Shore development, where we will see development of mid-rise residential and commercial buildings.

----------


## Pete

If the mystery tower turns out to be owner-occupied I actually think there is going to be big need for spec office space very soon.

I also wouldn't rule out the possibility of at least one more large hotel and possibly some residential high-rises.

----------


## G.Walker

> If the mystery tower turns out to be owner-occupied I actually think there is going to be big need for spec office space very soon.
> 
> I also wouldn't rule out the possibility of at least one more large hotel and possibly some residential high-rises.


I doubt we will see any residential high-rises, there is not a demand for it. Residential high-rises are usually condominiums, and according to the most recent downton housing study done by the City, apartment development will drive residential construction for years to come. That is why we can expect more mid-rise apartment development more than high-rise condos. I would love to see more developments like The Edge @ Midtown be developed in Core 2 Shore area, adjacent to the new park, or "suburban style" office complex.

----------


## G.Walker

and when I say "suburban style" office complex, I mean something similar to Granite Park in Plano, Tx:

----------


## mcca7596

I hope that there are some freestanding brownstone type developments on the edge of the park rather than apartment complexes.

----------


## Just the facts

> and when I say "suburban style" office complex, I mean something similar to Granite Park in Plano, Tx:


Are you suggesting this would be a good idea for Core to Shore?  If so, tell me the three things you like most about that model.

----------


## G.Walker

Yes, walkability, mid-rise office architecture, and it will add another option for companies wanting to be close to downtown, but don't want the heartache of dealing with congestion, ongoing construction, and parking. They can leave out the ponds though, lol.

----------


## betts

> I hope that there are some freestanding brownstone type developments on the edge of the park rather than apartment complexes.


I would like to see that too, but I would expect the land there to be expensive enough that the $200+ dollar a square foot prices people currently complain about for downtown housing would sound cheap in comparison.  I would expect to pay $300+ a square foot to live along a park of that calibre.  And if that's the case, will the people who can pay that be willing to buy downtown?  The Brownstones currently have 3 new resident families and prices haven't dropped significantly.  The Hill, while I haven't noticed any recent sales, definitely has a fair number of people living there.  There are certainly a lot of people looking at the Brownstones, to the point that it seems like maybe the general public's perception of living downtown is slowly changing.

----------


## mcca7596

> I would like to see that too, but I would expect the land there to be expensive enough that the $200+ dollar a square foot prices people currently complain about for downtown housing would sound cheap in comparison.  I would expect to pay $300+ a square foot to live along a park of that calibre.  And if that's the case, will the people who can pay that be willing to buy downtown?  The Brownstones currently have 3 new resident families and prices haven't dropped significantly.  The Hill, while I haven't noticed any recent sales, definitely has a fair number of people living there.  There are certainly a lot of people looking at the Brownstones, to the point that it seems like maybe the general public's perception of living downtown is slowly changing.


That's good to know that there are families in the Brownstones now.

There was someone on here several months ago who has a home in The Hill and he said sales were really picking up there.

It really did just take pioneers like yourself to get the ball rolling; I think the perception of living downtown is definitely improving, especially with added amenities coming online.

----------


## Just the facts

> Yes, walkability, mid-rise office architecture, and it will add another option for companies wanting to be close to downtown, but don't want the heartache of dealing with congestion, ongoing construction, and parking. They can leave out the ponds though, lol.


That isn't a walkable environment.  You sure can't walk to it from anywhere else unless you want to cross 10 lanes of freeways and cross a huge parking lot.  The internal circulation is just as bad.  Finally, that is one big congestion nightmare - thousands of parking space and one arterial road.  Instead of that model, build the same buildings, fit them to the existing street grid and make about 1/5 the number of parking spaces (in a multi-story parking garage).  If you want to get rid of congestion you have to get rid of the concentration of cars.

----------


## Pete

When LEVEL and Aloft are both open -- along with the ample amenities they both will provide -- I bet there will be a nice surge in condo sales throughout Deep Deuce.

----------


## G.Walker

> That isn't a walkable environment.  You sure can't walk to it from anywhere else unless you want to cross 10 lanes of freeways and cross a huge parking lot.  The internal circulation is just as bad.  Finally, that is one big congestion nightmare - thousands of parking space and one arterial road.  Instead of that model, build the same buildings, fit them to the existing street grid and make about 1/5 the number of parking spaces (in a multi-story parking garage).  If you want to get rid of congestion you have to get rid of the concentration of cars.


I didn't way I wanted to mimic the model exactly, but some of the features, but you do make valid points, I would get rid of parking spaces, build parking garages, trails, and bicycle lanes.

----------


## Just the facts

> I didn't way I wanted to mimic the model exactly, but some of the features, but you do make valid points, I would get rid of parking spaces, build parking garages, trails, and bicycle lanes.


I 100% understand the mid-rise angle.  I have said many times I would prefer mid-rise to super-tall development.  Give me London style development over Dubai any day.

----------


## skanaly

So this new tower..(or the rumor)..is it something to do with Ches. Like offices or a corporate tower?

----------


## Pete

> So this new tower..(or the rumor)..is it something to do with Ches. Like offices or a corporate tower?


We don't know who the business or developer is behind this.

----------


## skanaly

Interestingggg

----------


## metro

> So this new tower..(or the rumor)..is it something to do with Ches. Like offices or a corporate tower?


FYI the official abbreviation for Chesapeake is CHK, their stock ticker.

----------


## UnFrSaKn

I'll leave this right here. 

This would have been Thunder's wet dream of what OKC should look like. (or how he imagined it in his head)

----------


## UnFrSaKn



----------


## skanaly

> I'll leave this right here. 
> 
> This would have been Thunder's wet dream of what OKC should look like. (or how he imagined it in his head)


I honestly would hate this to be okc....

----------


## David

Is that Coruscant?

----------


## skanaly

We aren't like star wars LOL.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

Freedom Tower is looking BAD@$$!!

----------


## MDot

> Freedom Tower is looking BAD@$$!!


It's my favorite after Devon.

----------


## Urbanized

Devon Tower would be about as tall as the installed glass portion of 1WTC (Freedom Tower). If it were in Midtown standing next to the Empire State Building, it would be clearly visible, even at that distance. Even in Manhattan it would not be an insignificant building.

----------


## G.Walker

If I could take a skyscraper from any city in US, and plop it in downtown OKC, it would have to be Millenium Tower from San Francisco, not too tall, and architecture would fit well with our skyline:

----------


## iMAX386

edit: oops wrong thread

----------


## hoya

> I think that tower is simply stunning.  The concept of a "crystal city" does make me giddy at the thought of it. =) Are there are any cities that have a requirement that all high-rises be all glass?


All glass?  While I love the look of the Devon Tower, I prefer Art Deco skyscrapers.

----------


## UnFrSaKn

>

----------


## OKCisOK4me

I watched Babylon A.D. recently and there was a scene that zoomed in to the top ofTwo World Trade Center. Is that the one being constructed to the right of One in the pic above?

----------


## MDot

> I watched Babylon A.D. recently and there was a scene that zoomed in to the top ofTwo World Trade Center. Is that the one being constructed to the right of One in the pic above?


No, I believe it is Four World Trade Center.

----------


## UnFrSaKn



----------


## David Pollard

Yikes!!! Let's hear it for modern safety standards in the construction industry!! That must be the Woolworth, n'est ce pas?

----------


## BDK

I just got back from New York, and the new One World Trade is going to be an impressive structure. Also, not to stray from topic, but if you all have the chance, you should make it to the memorial. The massive scale of it really conveys the tragedy of the events.

----------


## MDot

> I just got back from New York, and the new One World Trade is going to be an impressive structure. Also, not to stray from topic, but if you all have the chance, you should make it to the memorial. The massive scale of it really conveys the tragedy of the events.


I plan on going once all the towers are built.

----------


## metro

> I just got back from New York, and the new One World Trade is going to be an impressive structure. Also, not to stray from topic, but if you all have the chance, you should make it to the memorial. The massive scale of it really conveys the tragedy of the events.


I agree, it makes Devon look small, and we all know Devon is a massive structure.

----------


## UnFrSaKn

Minneapolis 

http://www.rjiphotography.com/

----------


## metro

awesome!

----------


## UnFrSaKn



----------


## skanaly

Looks like the dust bowl! XD

----------


## Thundercitizen

> Minneapolis 
> 
> http://www.rjiphotography.com/


Who ya gonna call?

----------


## dmoor82

^^Fire & Ice! That pic is Awesome!

----------


## KayneMo

> All glass?  While I love the look of the Devon Tower, I prefer Art Deco skyscrapers.


Yes! I love Art Deco architecture, and modern interpretations of Art Deco like in the photo above^ of Minneapolis with Wells Fargo Center in the "fire." Looks very similar to the GE Building in NYC. I love both of those towers.

----------


## warreng88

I could definitely see Midfirst building a tower downtown. If the footprint was as big as one third of the corporate offices, that is six stories tall (x3=18) then add in Midland Mortgage six floors, but slim it down to the same size as one part of the home office and you get another 18 floors. Branch downstairs, board room, meeting rooms, room for expansion, etc and you get 40 floors or more.

----------


## skanaly

I would love the tower to be about right there. Somewhere around 760 ft. It would even out the skyline a bit.

----------


## skanaly

Don't mean to be a bother, but how do you post pictures on this thread of something you've created on Google SketchUp??

----------


## Pete

skanaly, you have to put the photos out on the Internet somewhere (like photobucket.com -- free) and then link here.

----------


## skanaly

This is what a mix of concepts, plans, idea's that has been introduced to OKC, with a little touch of my creativity!

----------


## catch22

Looks good.....pictures?

----------


## skanaly

Still trying to figure out how to do that! LOL

----------


## jungmuny

So you would just add a gallery to your gmail account by clicking on the photos tab on top.  You could either post the link to the gallery or right click the image and and left click copy image location and paste that url link into the button for that when you submit your post.  The button looks like a landscape painting of a tree to the right of the fonts/sizes menu.

----------


## skanaly

I'm on photobucket now, and I'm just not able to attach the link...

----------


## skanaly



----------


## KayneMo

I like to use tinypic.com. Very easy and you don't need to sign-in or anything!

----------


## skanaly

Now i got them! These are pictures of a mix of concepts, plans, and ideas. Also just some fantasy and creativity. 
-Midfirst bank tower- the orange tower north of chase
-First fidelity- west of the Devon tower
-Rand Elliots Turbo tower
-The tallest building, Chspk

[/IMG]

----------


## Steve

You guys might want to catch up on the latest news in The Oklahoman's business section....

----------


## king183

Here's the link to what Steve is talking about. Just to entice you:

"Beffort said another new corporate headquarters will be built downtown starting this year..."

http://newsok.com/downtown-oklahoma-...rticle/3647036

----------


## Steve

I hope all of you know how much it pains me that I wasn't the one to get this quote.... but I'm glad it was someone on my team!

----------


## shawnw

If it's definitely starting this year, there should be an announcement soon-ish, right?  Any intel on an announcement ETA, Steve? Even a ballpark expectation?

----------


## catch22

Architectural work and design must already be nearing completion for it to start this year. Just no one has said anything. Unless he means announced (start: starting the planning process) this year. I guess there is a difference in starting and breaking ground.

----------


## metro

Could very well be. CLR, as they will probably outgrow the old Devon building quickly and was probably intentioned as a temporary home.

----------


## catch22

> Cold very well be. CLR, as ET will probably outgrow the old Sevon building quickly and was probably intentioned as a temporary home.


It's not that late, last call isn't for a little while longer.... lol  :Wink:

----------


## redrunner

> Cold very well be. CLR, as ET will probably outgrow the old Sevon building quickly and was probably intentioned as a temporary home.


I find that typing with your eyes open is more accurate.

----------


## king183

Check out Steve's blog, too.

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/20...ine-will-grow/

----------


## Thundercitizen

So should we start a thread entitled "Mystery Tower", later to be renamed?

----------


## Dustin

Yes yes yes!!!!  God I LOVE THIS TOWN!

----------


## gurantula35

what a tease!!!! i wish he would have given just i little more info!

----------


## UnFrSaKn

I go to bed "late" last night...and this news breaks.. I'm pumped!

----------


## UnFrSaKn

The article mentioned Charlotte, so here's a cool skyline shot from a year ago.

----------


## SatelliteHigh

The article says that possible tenants are vying for Devon's current building, but I thought that Continental Resources was already stated as the company moving in. I'm a little behind on my news, which building is CR now moving into?

----------


## BDK

Devon occupies multiple buildings downtown, not just the one with its name on it. Here's hoping the news is true and correct.

----------


## Fantastic

> The article says that possible tenants are vying for Devon's current building, but I thought that Continental Resources was already stated as the company moving in. I'm a little behind on my news, which building is CR now moving into?


That was not the only building where Devon had people.  Devon's empolyees were scattered throughout downtown.  The article was about was all that other space Devon is vacating

----------


## metro

> The article says that possible tenants are vying for Devon's current building, but I thought that Continental Resources was already stated as the company moving in. I'm a little behind on my news, which building is CR now moving into?


 The article DOESN'T say that, it says vying for Devon's current leased space. As others stated Devon is in 4-5 buildings downtown. We already know the main building, the one that was sold is spoken for, but not the leased space they will be dumping soon.

----------


## Steve

The remaining Devon space referred to by Beffort would be the several floors at Chase Tower, and space, as I recall, at Corporate, Oklahoma towers.

----------


## Pete

I wouldn't be surprised if the next corporate HQ and skyscraper is announced in the next few months, more or less in conjunction with Devon Tower opening.

I really believe Larry Nichols is working with this mystery company to put together a project on the Preftakes property.  Remember, it was his idea that a good chunk of the Devon TIF go towards incentives for new companies to move downtown and it's pretty clear Devon is behind what Preftakes has been doing.

Beffort and Nichols are tight, so it makes sense that Mark would know about this.  I think the announcement will be timed just as Devon Tower is finishing to help keep the momentum rolling downtown.

----------


## G.Walker

It seems like the evolution of skyscraper development goes like this:

*Speculation -> Rumor -> Soft Announcement -> Hard Announcement-> Groundbreaking
*
Speculation (the What If? factor)

Rumor (people just going by here say, not officially reported)

Soft Announcement (Articles mention it, but with limited details, i.e. Mark Beffort's article)

Hard Announcement (Official Announcement by Company)

Groundbreaking

----------


## okcpulse

> It seems like the evolution of skyscraper development goes like this:
> 
> *Speculation -> Rumor -> Soft Announcement -> Hard Announcement-> Groundbreaking
> *
> Speculation (the What If? factor)
> 
> Rumor (people just going by here say, not officially reported)
> 
> Soft Announcement (Articles mention it, but with limited details, i.e. Mark Beffort's article)
> ...


Based on this, we are on stage 3.

----------


## metro

> It seems like the evolution of skyscraper development goes like this:
> 
> *Speculation -> Rumor -> Soft Announcement -> Hard Announcement-> Groundbreaking
> *
> Speculation (the What If? factor)
> 
> Rumor (people just going by here say, not officially reported)
> 
> Soft Announcement (Articles mention it, but with limited details, i.e. Mark Beffort's article)
> ...


For what, ONE skyscraper so your going to assume this is the process?

----------


## metro

Skanaly, great renderings but I think Turbonomic Tower is supposed to be MUCH MUCH taller than shown.

----------


## Pete

Defcon 3!


As far as the timing of actual construction, given that Preftakes has owned all the properties on that block for years now, there has been plenty of time to plan.  I'm sure when there is an announcement they will already have some pretty strong plans in hand, as they'll be needed in order to gain the necessary design approvals before they can finish all the final architectural and engineering work.

I hope Pickard Chilton is once again involved as they do great work; this new structure could be bridge between Devon Tower and the rest of the skyline.

----------


## BoulderSooner

I also love the idea of expanding the CBD/skyline to the west

----------


## metro

> Defcon 3!
> 
> 
> As far as the timing of actual construction, given that Preftakes has owned all the properties on that block for years now, there has been plenty of time to plan.  I'm sure when there is an announcement they will already have some pretty strong plans in hand, as they'll be needed in order to gain the necessary design approvals before they can finish all the final architectural and engineering work.
> 
> I hope Pickard Chilton is once again involved as they do great work; this new structure could be bridge between Devon Tower and the rest of the skyline.


Pete, I agree, BUT if this is the case, why wouldn't they have coordinated it at the same time to minimally disrupt downtown traffic and streets as well as all of the property would be coming online around the same time instead of creating it for a continuous 5-6 year period?

----------


## G.Walker

> Defcon 3!
> 
> 
> As far as the timing of actual construction, given that Preftakes has owned all the properties on that block for years now, there has been plenty of time to plan.  I'm sure when there is an announcement they will already have some pretty strong plans in hand, as they'll be needed in order to gain the necessary design approvals before they can finish all the final architectural and engineering work.
> 
> I hope Pickard Chilton is once again involved as they do great work; this new structure could be bridge between Devon Tower and the rest of the skyline.


I agree, Preftakes already has demolition permits for most of the buildings on that block, so the hard part is done. We will all know soon when the cranes come down from Devon Tower, just to only move next door! lol...And based on success of Devon Tower, I am sure Nichols and Preftakes can get pretty much get anything approved by the DDRC.

----------


## Pete

I don't think that small area of downtown could handle two simultaneous big tower projects along with all the Project 180 stuff.

Devon workers now fill that entire block where the downtown elementary school is to go, for example.  And the P180 work will last at least another year and probably two.  And don't forget the convention center and boulevard work will likely be starting soon.

The timing would also help a lot of the construction crews shift from Devon to the new tower.


Just some thoughts with lots of speculation on my part.

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## Steve

I am not aware of any demolition permits taken out for the buildings on the Main Street block. And he would not be able to get such permits without going through what would be seen as "the hard part,"  going through Downtown Design Review, which has not happened either. Not sure if you're speaking tongue in cheek, but this is a pretty extreme mis-statement of fact.

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## G.Walker

> I am not aware of any demolition permits taken out for the buildings on the Main Street block. And he would not be able to get such permits without going through what would be seen as "the hard part,"  going through Downtown Design Review, which has not happened either. Not sure if you're speaking tongue in cheek, but this is a pretty extreme mis-statement of fact.


I thought there was a article about a year ago, stating he got demolition permit for Carpenter Square Building? And that he had a hard time getting the permit, because he did not give details as to the reason why?

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## Pete

BTW, Mark Beffort will be added to the OCURA board at tomorrow's city council meeting.

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## Pete

> I thought there was a article about a year ago, stating he got demolition permit for Carpenter Square Building? And that he had a hard time getting the permit, because he did not give details as to the reason why?


No, absolutely not.  I just double-checked the permit database.

They did demolish 421 W. Sheridan on that block (just west of the Lunch Box) some time ago, but that's it.

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## G.Walker

Oh ok, my mistake, no big deal...but we all know most of those buildings will go!

----------


## G.Walker

More good info from Mark Beffort via okcreview.com:

http://www.okcreview.com/news.php?news_id=204&page=1

Q&A Quick Take: Mark Beffort

Several top local commercial real estate pros devoted a few minutes of their valuable time to give us their take on both the year that was 2011, and more importantly, a glimpse into what will be making headlines in the new 2012 in Oklahoma City.

Here are a few thoughts from Mark Beffort, Managing Partner with Grubb & Ellis/Levy Beffort in OKC.

Q: What was the biggest story in OKC commercial real estate in 2011, and why?

The new jobs that have been and are being created. Expansion by Chesapeake, Devon, SandRidge and many other energy-related firms, along with the relocation of Continental Resources and Boeing. The wages for these jobs are well above the current average wage for the private sector.

Q: What will be the biggest story in 2012, and why?

Definitely the CBD. The completion of Project 180 phases 1-5, completion of the I-40 cross-town, the opening of the Devon (headquarters) facility, completion of the renovated SandRidge campus, absorption of over 200,000 sq. ft. of the vacated Devon space, ground breaking of the convention center, ground breaking of 2+ new parking garages, *announcement of 1+ new corporate facilities to be built*, growth in our downtown living population, and more… and will we see a downtown grocery store open?

>> Ben Johnson, January 16, 2012 | 7:47 AM

----------


## lasomeday

> More good info from Mark Beffort via okcreview.com:
> 
> http://www.okcreview.com/news.php?news_id=204&page=1
> 
> Q&A Quick Take: Mark Beffort
> 
> Several top local commercial real estate pros devoted a few minutes of their valuable time to give us their take on both the year that was 2011, and more importantly, a glimpse into what will be making headlines in the new 2012 in Oklahoma City.
> 
> Here are a few thoughts from Mark Beffort, Managing Partner with Grubb & Ellis/Levy Beffort in OKC.
> ...


That makes me nautious!  Two convention centers side by side zapping any growth to the south of downtown!  I see this killing anyone wanting to live south of it, but it will push more development in Deep Deuce and Midtown.  Just love the bad planning wall they are creating with the convention center and 6 lane blvd.

----------


## Pete

The 1+ quote implies at least one and maybe more.

Don't forget that the Chamber hinted at a big relocation of another HQ around the time of the last Boeing announcement.  I think this is separate from whoever will be building this mystery tower.

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## BoulderSooner

> BTW, Mark Beffort will be added to the OCURA board at tomorrow's city council meeting.


not that it matters ..but this happened at yesterdays meeting  and he was also added to the redevelopment authority

----------


## BoulderSooner

> That makes me nautious!  Two convention centers side by side zapping any growth to the south of downtown!  I see this killing anyone wanting to live south of it, but it will push more development in Deep Deuce and Midtown.  Just love the bad planning wall they are creating with the convention center and 6 lane blvd.


the blvd will NOT be 6 lanes of traffic .. it will be 4

----------


## skanaly

Any predictions on the location??

----------


## Pete

SW corner of Main & Hudson is the best location guess.

----------


## Just the facts

> the blvd will NOT be 6 lanes of traffic .. it will be 4


That is what we all thought but it was cofirmed in another thread this week that it is still 6 lanes.  It appears the the '4 lane' comment originated with someone who was not in a position to decide such things.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> That is what we all thought but it was cofirmed in another thread this week that it is still 6 lanes.  It appears the the '4 lane' comment originated with someone who was not in a position to decide such things.


i was at the meeting when several of the city staff including russell claus (who has been at the blvd planning meetings)   confirmed that it will be 2 lanes of traffic in each direction

----------


## Just the facts

> i was at the meeting when several of the city staff including russell claus (who has been at the blvd planning meetings)   confirmed that it will be 2 lanes of traffic in each direction


But it is being built by the state, not the city.  Maybe they are the uninformed sources.  Don't get me wrong though - I hope it is 4 lanes (actually, I liked the idea of having it integrate with the existing street grid west of Walker).  Steve even confirmed nothing has changed from 6 lanes.

----------


## architect5311

How about MidFirst? They are big and busting at the seams at current building...and does anyone know which highrise they own/and or occupy in downtown Pheonix?

----------


## Skyline

> I think going east/NE has benefits too.  Lots of good more density could do for the health corridor, State complex, Bricktown, Deep Deuce, Flatiron, etc.


I like E/NE much more than west.

----------


## Thundercitizen

Connect the medical core to the CBD...larger CBD quickly.

----------


## Just the facts

> Connect the medical core to the CBD...larger CBD quickly.


The only problem is the nearly 1000 feet of unbuildable space because of the I-235 right of way.  However, I would expect mid-rise development along Harrison in Flatiron.

Another good location for a new tower (and my prefered location) would be the vacant lot between EKG and the railroad at 4th.

----------


## UnFrSaKn

Stuff like this still shows up when you do a Google image search for Oklahoma City. Still the Murrah Federal Building in there!



I hope this changes soon because the average person has to dig a little to find anything new that's been built in the past few years.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Now i got them! These are pictures of a mix of concepts, plans, and ideas. Also just some fantasy and creativity. 
> -Midfirst bank tower- the orange tower north of chase
> -First fidelity- west of the Devon tower
> -Rand Elliots Turbo tower
> -The tallest building, Chspk
> 
> [/IMG]


i like that tall skinny building and the Turbonomics tower. Can't wait to see our city in 2025

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Btw, I only posted in here to bump it so it isn't forgotten. This is one of my fav threads. I have a couple renderings and pictures I'll post here soon once it looks halfway decent. I'll try and include a picture of the Lumber Yard Tower(s) and a Hyatt Place tower in Bricktown

----------


## skanaly

Took me a minute to find this thread! Just wanted to post some progress on a fun project I've been working on for months now. I'd like to say I can put this around the year 2100 lol

----------


## skanaly

Also for future, how do I upload better quality photos?

----------


## Pete

> Also for future, how do I upload better quality photos?


Try imgur.com.

Upload there, then post the link.

----------


## Martin

"okc's future skyline" reminds me of the cover from an okc almanac from around 1989 that showed a futuristic okc skyline... basically the artist depicted this huge mega skyscraper that wrapped around and rose above the entire okc central business district... it kind of reminded me of an album cover for the band boston.  the kid version of me thought that was the coolest thing ever and i think i even tried to recreate the drawing.  really wish i could find a copy of that old picture!

----------


## Pete

> I thought there was a article about a year ago, stating he got demolition permit for Carpenter Square Building? And that he had a hard time getting the permit, because he did not give details as to the reason why?


No, absolutely not.  I just double-checked the permit database.

They did demolish 421 W. Sheridan on that block (just west of the Lunch Box) some time ago, but that's it.

----------


## G.Walker

Oh ok, my mistake, no big deal...but we all know most of those buildings will go!

----------


## G.Walker

More good info from Mark Beffort via okcreview.com:

http://www.okcreview.com/news.php?news_id=204&page=1

Q&A Quick Take: Mark Beffort

Several top local commercial real estate pros devoted a few minutes of their valuable time to give us their take on both the year that was 2011, and more importantly, a glimpse into what will be making headlines in the new 2012 in Oklahoma City.

Here are a few thoughts from Mark Beffort, Managing Partner with Grubb & Ellis/Levy Beffort in OKC.

Q: What was the biggest story in OKC commercial real estate in 2011, and why?

The new jobs that have been and are being created. Expansion by Chesapeake, Devon, SandRidge and many other energy-related firms, along with the relocation of Continental Resources and Boeing. The wages for these jobs are well above the current average wage for the private sector.

Q: What will be the biggest story in 2012, and why?

Definitely the CBD. The completion of Project 180 phases 1-5, completion of the I-40 cross-town, the opening of the Devon (headquarters) facility, completion of the renovated SandRidge campus, absorption of over 200,000 sq. ft. of the vacated Devon space, ground breaking of the convention center, ground breaking of 2+ new parking garages, *announcement of 1+ new corporate facilities to be built*, growth in our downtown living population, and more… and will we see a downtown grocery store open?

>> Ben Johnson, January 16, 2012 | 7:47 AM

----------


## lasomeday

> More good info from Mark Beffort via okcreview.com:
> 
> http://www.okcreview.com/news.php?news_id=204&page=1
> 
> Q&A Quick Take: Mark Beffort
> 
> Several top local commercial real estate pros devoted a few minutes of their valuable time to give us their take on both the year that was 2011, and more importantly, a glimpse into what will be making headlines in the new 2012 in Oklahoma City.
> 
> Here are a few thoughts from Mark Beffort, Managing Partner with Grubb & Ellis/Levy Beffort in OKC.
> ...


That makes me nautious!  Two convention centers side by side zapping any growth to the south of downtown!  I see this killing anyone wanting to live south of it, but it will push more development in Deep Deuce and Midtown.  Just love the bad planning wall they are creating with the convention center and 6 lane blvd.

----------


## Pete

The 1+ quote implies at least one and maybe more.

Don't forget that the Chamber hinted at a big relocation of another HQ around the time of the last Boeing announcement.  I think this is separate from whoever will be building this mystery tower.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> BTW, Mark Beffort will be added to the OCURA board at tomorrow's city council meeting.


not that it matters ..but this happened at yesterdays meeting  and he was also added to the redevelopment authority

----------


## BoulderSooner

> That makes me nautious!  Two convention centers side by side zapping any growth to the south of downtown!  I see this killing anyone wanting to live south of it, but it will push more development in Deep Deuce and Midtown.  Just love the bad planning wall they are creating with the convention center and 6 lane blvd.


the blvd will NOT be 6 lanes of traffic .. it will be 4

----------


## skanaly

Any predictions on the location??

----------


## Pete

SW corner of Main & Hudson is the best location guess.

----------


## Just the facts

> the blvd will NOT be 6 lanes of traffic .. it will be 4


That is what we all thought but it was cofirmed in another thread this week that it is still 6 lanes.  It appears the the '4 lane' comment originated with someone who was not in a position to decide such things.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> That is what we all thought but it was cofirmed in another thread this week that it is still 6 lanes.  It appears the the '4 lane' comment originated with someone who was not in a position to decide such things.


i was at the meeting when several of the city staff including russell claus (who has been at the blvd planning meetings)   confirmed that it will be 2 lanes of traffic in each direction

----------


## Just the facts

> i was at the meeting when several of the city staff including russell claus (who has been at the blvd planning meetings)   confirmed that it will be 2 lanes of traffic in each direction


But it is being built by the state, not the city.  Maybe they are the uninformed sources.  Don't get me wrong though - I hope it is 4 lanes (actually, I liked the idea of having it integrate with the existing street grid west of Walker).  Steve even confirmed nothing has changed from 6 lanes.

----------


## architect5311

How about MidFirst? They are big and busting at the seams at current building...and does anyone know which highrise they own/and or occupy in downtown Pheonix?

----------


## Skyline

> I think going east/NE has benefits too.  Lots of good more density could do for the health corridor, State complex, Bricktown, Deep Deuce, Flatiron, etc.


I like E/NE much more than west.

----------


## Thundercitizen

Connect the medical core to the CBD...larger CBD quickly.

----------


## Just the facts

> Connect the medical core to the CBD...larger CBD quickly.


The only problem is the nearly 1000 feet of unbuildable space because of the I-235 right of way.  However, I would expect mid-rise development along Harrison in Flatiron.

Another good location for a new tower (and my prefered location) would be the vacant lot between EKG and the railroad at 4th.

----------


## UnFrSaKn

Stuff like this still shows up when you do a Google image search for Oklahoma City. Still the Murrah Federal Building in there!



I hope this changes soon because the average person has to dig a little to find anything new that's been built in the past few years.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Now i got them! These are pictures of a mix of concepts, plans, and ideas. Also just some fantasy and creativity. 
> -Midfirst bank tower- the orange tower north of chase
> -First fidelity- west of the Devon tower
> -Rand Elliots Turbo tower
> -The tallest building, Chspk
> 
> [/IMG]


i like that tall skinny building and the Turbonomics tower. Can't wait to see our city in 2025

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Btw, I only posted in here to bump it so it isn't forgotten. This is one of my fav threads. I have a couple renderings and pictures I'll post here soon once it looks halfway decent. I'll try and include a picture of the Lumber Yard Tower(s) and a Hyatt Place tower in Bricktown

----------


## skanaly

Took me a minute to find this thread! Just wanted to post some progress on a fun project I've been working on for months now. I'd like to say I can put this around the year 2100 lol

----------


## skanaly

Also for future, how do I upload better quality photos?

----------


## Pete

> Also for future, how do I upload better quality photos?


Try imgur.com.

Upload there, then post the link.

----------


## Martin

"okc's future skyline" reminds me of the cover from an okc almanac from around 1989 that showed a futuristic okc skyline... basically the artist depicted this huge mega skyscraper that wrapped around and rose above the entire okc central business district... it kind of reminded me of an album cover for the band boston.  the kid version of me thought that was the coolest thing ever and i think i even tried to recreate the drawing.  really wish i could find a copy of that old picture!

----------

