# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Tulsa & Suburbs >  Gathering Place for Tulsa will be world-class park

## Dustin

Architect: Gathering Place for Tulsa will be world-class park | Tulsa World

Michael Van Valkenburgh is coming to town. 

If the name doesn't ring a bell, it will soon. Van Valkenburgh, president of Michael Van Valkenburgh Associates Inc., and his team of landscape architects are about to transform the face of Tulsa with a world-class park along Riverside Drive. 


It's called the Gathering Place for Tulsa, and Tuesday the public is invited to attend the unveiling of the final plan for the 55-acre park. 

Van Valkenburgh will be there to share his vision. 

"I think the park is remarkably diverse and the kind of place it is hard to imagine people won't come back to," Van Valkenburgh said. "I think the design is incredibly successful in connecting the Blair (Mansion) site to the Arkansas River." 

The project is being funded by the George Kaiser Family Foundation at an estimated cost of $100 million to $150 million. 

Jeff Stava, who is overseeing the park project for the foundation, said Van Valkenburgh's team has addressed every design challenge thrown at it. 

"The result is the creation of a new, dynamic public space capturing not only the city's physical beauty but civic spirit as well - a place all Tulsans will enjoy," Stava said. 

Michael Van Valkenburgh Associates was selected to design the park in July 2011, but it was months earlier, on a snowy February day, that Van Valkenburgh and his team first laid eyes on the park property. 

"Our breath was taken away with the generosity and the feeling of the Blair site and the challenge of how the rest of the site - which is this wonderful river's edge - could somehow feel connected," Van Valkenburgh said, "because, if you go there now, they feel really separate." 

Earlier versions of the park plan, which incorporates input gathered from five public meetings, call for ponds, playgrounds and land bridges connecting the Blair property to the River Parks trails. 

The designers knew "that if we could figure out a way to tie that all together, we would have something much more powerful than what you have on the site today," Van Valkenburgh said. 

Although the final design won't be made public until Tuesday, the 61-year-old native of upstate New York let it be known that the original design differs somewhat from the final design. 

"I think that what we hadn't stressed at all in the early versions of the design was how much Tulsa is into eating outside - sort of the outdoor eating culture of the city," Van Valkenburgh said. "People were like, 'Oh, it would be great to go there and have places to get a beer, barbecue, stuff like that.' So that definitely changed the elements we included." 

Van Valkenburgh may be best known for his design of Brooklyn Bridge Park in Brooklyn, N.Y., with its magnificent views of New York Harbor and the Manhattan skyline. 

He lives just blocks from the park and never stays away long. 

"It is just magnetic to go and to be around that many people having a good time - just having fun, kicking back," he said. 

Van Valkenburgh expects the Gathering Place for Tulsa to have the same appeal - not simply because of its amenities, which will be numerous and varied, but because of its borrowed landscape. 

"What a gift this site is - the site is incredible already," he said. "That is what reminds me of Brooklyn Bridge Park. 

"In Tulsa, the context is different, but it is very powerful - just a great place for somebody to ask you to design a park because it is already so good." 

The park, Van Valkenburgh believes, says a lot about the city. 

"It is remarkably ambitious," he said. "This level of care and regard for the quality of life in the city is reflected by the magnitude of the project. 

"In its own way, it is sort of like Tulsa trying to make its own version of New York's Central Park or San Francisco's Crissy Field."
Public meeting

What: Unveiling of Gathering Place for Tulsa final plans 

When: 6 p.m. Tuesday 

Where: TCC Center for Creativity, 910 S. Boston Ave.
Michael Van Valkenburgh Associates projects

Brooklyn Bridge Park, New York

Teardrop Park, New York

Hudson River Parks, New York

George W. Bush Presidential Center, Dallas

Mill Race Park, Columbus, Ind.

North Grant Park, Chicago

Allegheny Riverfront Park, Pittsburgh

Lower Don Lands, Toronto

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## Dustin

A Gathering Place For Tulsa | Tulsa, OK

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## lasomeday

This park will blow our Central Park out of the water and has private funding which ours will not.....

Model Of 'A Gathering Place For Tulsa' Unveiled To The Public - NewsOn6.com

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## HangryHippo

This is going to be really wonderful for Tulsa.  I agree with la, it's going to blow our Central Park out of the water.

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## adaniel

> This is going to be really wonderful for Tulsa.  I agree with la, it's going to blow our Central Park out of the water.


Looks nice but what is so superior with this compared to the new Central Park?

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## HangryHippo

Personal preference as much as anything I suppose.  I prefer the overall design and scheme of Tulsa's plan.  I like that it's along the river.  It just has a classier feel to it.  A little less manufactured, a little more park if that makes any sense.

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## lasomeday

> Looks nice but what is so superior with this compared to the new Central Park?


The design fits the site.  It's better thought out and had more depth.

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## Plutonic Panda

Cool, a park along a river that looks like crap half of the year. . . can't wait to visit it. Meanwhile, our park will be truly a world class venue that will sit right in the dead center of an urban metropolis if everything goes well with Core2Shore. If the momentum continues, the area our park will be in, will be a one of a kind place in our entire region.

Dallas is building a park along the Trinity river similar to Tulsa's, and I'm sure there are many more like it. However, our central park, should trump anything Dallas has and Tulsa is not even in the same league.

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## In_Tulsa

> cool, a park along a river that looks like crap half of the year. . . Can't wait to visit it. Meanwhile, our park will be truly a world class venue that will sit right in the dead center of an urban metropolis if everything goes well with core2shore. If the momentum continues, the area our park will be in, will be a one of a kind place in our entire region.
> 
> Dallas is building a park along the trinity river similar to tulsa's, and i'm sure there are many more like it. However, our central park, should trump anything dallas has and tulsa is not even in the same league.


That's funny!

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## Plutonic Panda

I know right!!!!!!

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## ljbab728

I absolutely think this is wonderful for Tulsa but I see no reason to compare it what OKC is doing.  We don't have a private entity willing to spend $200 million for our park and ours is being built in a cleared urban area.  It's like comparing apples and oranges.

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## MWCGuy

We can trash talk all day long about the two parks however, we really need to wait for the finished products in both cities before the actual trash talk can began.

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## bluedogok

> We can trash talk all day long about the two parks however, we really need to wait for the finished products in both cities before the actual trash talk can began.


Yep, both cities have a track record of failed projects like this throughout their histories. Better to wait to see what really happens.

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## ZYX2

> Cool, a park along a river that looks like crap half of the year. . . can't wait to visit it. Meanwhile, our park will be truly a world class venue that will sit right in the dead center of an urban metropolis if everything goes well with Core2Shore. If the momentum continues, the area our park will be in, will be a one of a kind place in our entire region.
> 
> Dallas is building a park along the Trinity river similar to Tulsa's, and I'm sure there are many more like it. However, our central park, should trump anything Dallas has and Tulsa is not even in the same league.


Neither of the parks is anything revolutionary. Don't pretend that Central Park is a new idea. And why will the park in Tulsa look like crap half the year? If you're referring to most plants being dormant then wouldn't that same logic apply to Central Park?  

Although I really do like the Central Park in OKC, my personal preference, at least from the renderings, is for A Gathering Place in Tulsa. Central Park is too structured and organized looking for my taste. Feels less like a park and more like a garden. I like the more random (although it is not) feel of A Gathering Place. This is just my personal preference, which clearly differs from yours. There's no reason to trash the park planned for Tulsa simply because you like the one planned in OKC better. They are both well-planned and will be great successes if built as planned.

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## Plutonic Panda

You know what, ljbab is right, you really can't compare these parks as they serve a different purpose really. The park looking like crap half of the year comment was aimed at the river not being full. My question to you is, why does Tulsa not build any kind of locks to channel in the water to keep it looking good? Tulsa is loosing out and fast. Sorry to say to you, a privately funded park and a casino does not signify a good economy. I hope Tulsa has plans in place to upgrade the infrastructure around this park in order to make it appealing to new development. 

It may be misconstrued at times that I want Tulsa to fail, but at this time, a reality ought to be recognized that Tulsa is no longer the top dog(if it ever was) and OKC dominates Tulsa. If the cities could share and play nice, that would be great, but it seems at times, a lot of people from Tulsa don't want anything to do with OKC and demean it; it is really bad online too!

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## ZYX2

I like OKC, but it is a completely different city from Tulsa. Have you looked at development in Tulsa lately? There's a whole lot more than just this park and the casino. The Brady and Blue Dome Districts are continuing to fill out nicely, 70 new apartments were just completed in the Greenwood District, the East End is on the verge of explosion, many of the old buildings in the CBD are being converted to apartments, the list could go on. 

Since when does privately funded development signify a bad economy? What new development do you expect to go around this park? The area is filled in with housing built long ago.  

I haven't seen Tulsans on here demeaning OKC. It's usually people from OKC demeaning Tulsa and then justifying it by saying that Tulsans don't like their city. Grow up and stop acting like either city needs to cede power or recognize the dominance of the other.

That's not what this thread is about, however. It's a thread about a park in Tulsa, a park which is being built and maintained by the GKFF, not the city. I view that as a good thing as I trust Kaiser more than the city when it comes to upkeep.

Do you have any idea how much it costs to build low water dams? How dangerous they can be? Have you done studies to assess the environmental impact of said dams? Personally I don't understand the obsession with water in the river at all times. Let's just leave it as it is and enjoy the water when it rains. Dams will just add further expense both initially and with maintenance to the city government. Money that be much better spent focusing on land where the major development is occurring.

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## Shake2005

> You know what, ljbab is right, you really can't compare these parks as they serve a different purpose really. The park looking like crap half of the year comment was aimed at the river not being full. My question to you is, why does Tulsa not build any kind of locks to channel in the water to keep it looking good? Tulsa is loosing out and fast. Sorry to say to you, a privately funded park and a casino does not signify a good economy. I hope Tulsa has plans in place to upgrade the infrastructure around this park in order to make it appealing to new development. 
> 
> It may be misconstrued at times that I want Tulsa to fail, but at this time, a reality ought to be recognized that Tulsa is no longer the top dog(if it ever was) and OKC dominates Tulsa. If the cities could share and play nice, that would be great, but it seems at times, a lot of people from Tulsa don't want anything to do with OKC and demean it; it is really bad online too!



The part of the river where the park is located IS filled with water. The Zink Lake dam has been there for 30 years or more.

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## Plutonic Panda

> I like OKC, but it is a completely different city from Tulsa. Have you looked at development in Tulsa lately? There's a whole lot more than just this park and the casino. The Brady and Blue Dome Districts are continuing to fill out nicely, 70 new apartments were just completed in the Greenwood District, the East End is on the verge of explosion, many of the old buildings in the CBD are being converted to apartments, the list could go on. 
> 
> Since when does privately funded development signify a bad economy? What new development do you expect to go around this park? The area is filled in with housing built long ago.  
> 
> I haven't seen Tulsans on here demeaning OKC. It's usually people from OKC demeaning Tulsa and then justifying it by saying that Tulsans don't like their city. Grow up and stop acting like either city needs to cede power or recognize the dominance of the other.
> 
> That's not what this thread is about, however. It's a thread about a park in Tulsa, a park which is being built and maintained by the GKFF, not the city. I view that as a good thing as I trust Kaiser more than the city when it comes to upkeep.
> 
> Do you have any idea how much it costs to build low water dams? How dangerous they can be? Have you done studies to assess the environmental impact of said dams? Personally I don't understand the obsession with water in the river at all times. Let's just leave it as it is and enjoy the water when it rains. Dams will just add further expense both initially and with maintenance to the city government. Money that be much better spent focusing on land where the major development is occurring.


Yeah, I've been to Tulsa about three times in the past 4 weeks, it sucked every time. The roads were horrible(yes worse than OKC), the people were alright, the city was bleak; at night it was worse, Blue Dome District and Brady District had tons of vacant lots and no momentum. Midtown has a bunch of vacant lots as well, but at least there are tons of infill projects, I couldn't even begin to list what is coming, there is whole website full of it(oh thats here!!!!!!).

Never said it signifies a bad economy, but when all a city really has to show for is a new park and a new casino, meanwhile we're over here looking at a new-somewhatish-lifestyle center with huge retailer names, 30 story spec tower, streetcar system, two massive urban housing units etc..... That's all I meant by it. There are no urban developments that even come close to what OKC is getting, and C2S will only make that worse. 

As for what this thread is about, I understand what this is about and I posted my opinions on it. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Tulsans bash OKC on the internet and in real life. I was at Cazs or something like that, in the Brady district as soon as I mentioned I was from OKC, a group of people I was sitting with went on a rant about the place and how Tulsa was on the rise going to stomp OKC. All I could do was shake my head as any time I tried to defend OKC and set the facts straight, they were like a group of monkeys and started getting loud and stupid. This has happened on multiple occasions with different people. A strong, leading, and dominant city does need to be recognized and that is OKC!

As far as the dam issue, give me a freakin' break man. . . OKC built their locks just fine, I'm sure Tulsa can do it. Are they still having to turn off their highway lights at night due to lack of funding?

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## soonerguru

Not here to defend Tulsa, because what posters have said about Tulsans just absolutely hating OKC beyond reason is true, but it does have many things going for it. Obviously, OKC is progressing much faster: NBA, complete Downtown reinvention, streetcar, office towers, residential, etc., but Tulsa is a smaller city that has had a leg up on OKC in many ways. I see Tulsa subtly refining itself, while OKC is booming. The phenomena are very different but frankly OKC needs to boom to match some of the quality of life offerings Tulsa has had for much longer.

Economically speaking, though, OKC is reaching critical mass and is far more dynamic than Tulsa at this point. For many years, OKC's economy was almost entirely tied to government employment, but it is now a cradle of private and public sector employment. The cities are not on the same level now, as OKC is quickly moving toward big-league status while Tulsa is still a very nice city, but not one that is among the top tier of cities.

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## Snowman

> Do you have any idea how much it costs to build low water dams? How dangerous they can be? Have you done studies to assess the environmental impact of said dams? Personally I don't understand the obsession with water in the river at all times. Let's just leave it as it is and enjoy the water when it rains. Dams will just add further expense both initially and with maintenance to the city government. Money that be much better spent focusing on land where the major development is occurring.


We just build some like ten years ago, so we have a good idea of cost. Though I am not sure if it was intentional or not but something thing that ended up working out nice for OKC's is the parks and spaces that encourage people to be near the river are away from the dams and the zone of water that are problematic, and the parts near the dams are generally pretty isolated with little or nothing to draw people to them. It seems like part of the problem Tulsa has had is that a park was constructed right by the worst spot for people go if they are to get in the water; with parking, grand steps/amphitheater down to the bank of part of the danger area and aesthetic features that could give a false sense of security to the area. I am sure people could still do something stupid and die at ours but they would either have to walk pretty far out of the way or swim several hundred meters to a couple thousand meters to do so. It would be an improvement if the corp of engineers would come up with better markers, probably that would even say do not go past them large enough everyone will see that, if it was not for being told by more experienced people what they marked I would not have gotten the clue what they were. Given Tulsa has had more issues with safety at the low water dam there, it is a bit odd that the safety markers there are not at least as far out as the ones here (theirs are like 50ft verses ours at like 300ft). Tulsa and OKC as far as economic impact of building dams are in different situations, the area that borders the river is already built up in Tulsa so new dams would not add as much value added as it did here, here the amount it elevated the property values and lead to new building along it of hotels and commercial property has collected several times what the cost was and still has a lot more developable land, the fact that it makes the areas looks nicer and has added recreational opportunities was just bonuses.

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## Plutonic Panda

> Not here to defend Tulsa, because what posters have said about Tulsans just absolutely hating OKC beyond reason is true, but it does have many things going for it. Obviously, OKC is progressing much faster: NBA, complete Downtown reinvention, streetcar, office towers, residential, etc., but Tulsa is a smaller city that has had a leg up on OKC in many ways. I see Tulsa subtly refining itself, while OKC is booming. The phenomena are very different but frankly OKC needs to boom to match some of the quality of life offerings Tulsa has had for much longer.
> 
> Economically speaking, though, OKC is reaching critical mass and is far more dynamic than Tulsa at this point. For many years, OKC's economy was almost entirely tied to government employment, but it is now a cradle of private and public sector employment. The cities are not on the same level now, as OKC is quickly moving toward big-league status while Tulsa is still a very nice city, but not one that is among the top tier of cities.


That's a very fair assessment.

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## BG918

The low water dam that creates Zink Lake is right by this park, and will eventually be rebuilt 3-4 feet higher than it is currently and with a gradual step decline to lessen the danger if you happen to go over.  That way it will also look less like a dam and more like a natural waterfall.  There is a natural fall in the river at this location as well as a rock jetty that creates rapids below the dam that will be preserved for kayakers.  Also as part of a funding package that will go to voters in November the pedestrian bridge will have two levels, one for joggers below and one for bikes above that will tie into the Midland Valley trail that goes to downtown and the river trails on both banks, all of which have been updated with dual lanes for bikes and joggers.

You cant compare the North Canadian/Oklahoma River to the Arkansas, as they are very different.  It is much easier and cheaper to build dams on the  Oklahoma because it is less than half the width and flows are much less, while the Arkansas in a quarter mile wide and drains a large part of the region.

The design of the park is meant to connect with the river while also creating a public green space out of what has been a private piece of property for many years.  It includes plans to connect to the surrounding area through a new trail along Crow Creek to Brookside a half mile to the east and eventually includes a plan to build a childrens museum, in addition to the new building already planned.  Wiliams and ONEOK have already commoted over $25 million to the construction of these structures so it's not entirely privately funded by GKFF.

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## ErnestA

Good for Tulsa and its residents. It definitely seems more naturally-fitting than the OKC Core to Shore park. If realized, it will be successful off the bat with a ready population of across-the-street users. It will be close Utica Square and Brookside in the tony Midtown part of Tulsa.

I'll say this for OKC, though: the Core to Shore park won't have the ready-made user base, but it does provide an opportunity to placemake from scratch. It's an absolute necessity to build dense neighborhoods to surround the park with a local users, but we can do it with a greater variety of housing types and killer, walkable commercial districts on either side of the park. Whereas A Gathering Place for Tulsa will vastly improve how Midtown Tulsa interfaces with the river, the Core to Shore park will have a greater POTENTIAL to be a game-changer for the city. We just have to execute a bold vision well.

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## Chautauqua

I am just going to say that despite Panda's claims that many, many Tulsans have been giving him the business about OKC....Panda was the one bringing the heat to this thread, in the Tulsa forum, and then complaining that we Tulsans are the problem.  Nevermind that he doesn't know what he is talking about in regards to almost every statement he has made about the City of Tulsa or what is going on here.

I think there is another general assumption that is taking place with this larger discussion, which is that Tulsa is looking to emulate OKC.  It's just not true. I can say it as one who is highly involved in these things here...OKC only comes up in discussions about distributions of capital, and bias in the State offices (i.e. Department of Transportation, State Legislature.), and State entities like The State Board Of Regents or the OU Board of Regents.  It's normal stuff.  Most states have this kind of competition because resources are limited.  I digress...  The concept that we are jealous of OKC's growth is a red herring.  Tulsa's goal is not to be an "NBA City".  Our identity isn't tied to that kind of recognition.  Our identity is going to be attached to our inherent quality of life capacity, our support for the Arts at all levels, our thirst for culture, our acceptance of diversity, opportunities for quality education at all levels, and of our support for entrepreneurship.  We think those things will ultimately result in the best kind of economic strength...an organic, interconnected community that accepts and attracts and retains talented people and supports families of all kinds.

So you all who say OKC and Tulsa are growing in different directions are right.  We are growing differently, and it's more by design than you are giving credit for.

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## Plutonic Panda

> I am just going to say that despite Panda's claims that many, many Tulsans have been giving him the business about OKC....Panda was the one bringing the heat to this thread, in the Tulsa forum, and then complaining that we Tulsans are the problem.  Nevermind that he doesn't know what he is talking about in regards to almost every statement he has made about the City of Tulsa or what is going on here.


Keep telling yourself that. I'll let the actions speak for themselves. Let's see where Tulsa is in 15 years vs. OKC.

BTW, I frequently visit Tulsa, and the place is turning into a dump, really fast. Bring some leadership and vision to your city, and I'll respect it. To add, that, just completely forget that I have mentioned I sincerely hope it works out for Tulsa and that they benefit from this. Forget that I have posted several threads in this section in concern for Tulsa and their projects.

I speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and if that is too much for you handle, I don't know what else to say there, ol' chap.

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## ZYX2

> Keep telling yourself that. I'll let the actions speak for themselves. Let's see where Tulsa is in 15 years vs. OKC.
> 
> BTW, I frequently visit Tulsa, and the place is turning into a dump, really fast. Bring some leadership and vision to your city, and I'll respect it.


What he said was true. Your snarky comments aren't needed. Tulsa is not quickly turning into a dump, I have absolutely no idea where you get that impression. Honestly, I can't think of quickly degenerating areas. 

Please take your rude demeanor and commentary elsewhere or keep it to yourself. It is not constructive nor deserved by any posters in this thread.

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## Plutonic Panda

> What he said was true. Your snarky comments aren't needed. Tulsa is not quickly turning into a dump, I have absolutely no idea where you get that impression. Honestly, I can't think of quickly degenerating areas. 
> 
> Please take your rude demeanor and commentary elsewhere or keep it to yourself. It is not constructive nor deserved by any posters in this thread.


What he said was an opinion.

This will be my last post on this issue. During my past visits to Tulsa, the whole city seemed depressing. Tulsa has no leadership and no vision. The freakin city can't even afford to keep some of their highway lights on at night. Open your eyes and look around; Tulsa sucks right now. Get some momentum going for your city, pass something like MAPS and get the ball rolling. If you have a problem with my opinions on things, tough. I'm not going to cater to you and your feelings and lie about what I truly think of the city, sorry. Criticism won't always be constructive and that is life.

I give credit where credit is due, and the only thing I can give Tulsa credit for a citizen having the comity pride to spend $100+ million on a park for the city, congrats. As I've said, we'll see where OKC is in 15 years and then we'll take a look at Tulsa, good luck to you man, and perhaps even the two cities can one day work with one another to better themselves.

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## BG918

I would just ignore Plutonic Panda.  He obviously has an ax to grind and doesn't contribute anything constructive to this thread.

Some more renderings:

Aerial


Final Schematic Design Plan


Lakeview Lawn


Turtle Island/Crow Creek Trail connecting the park to Brookside


Swing Hill


The Lodge (Williams donating $16 million to the construction)


Four Seasons Garden


Boathouse (ONEOK donating $10 million to the construction)


Blair Pond

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## OKCisOK4me

> What he said was an opinion.
> 
> This will be my last post on this issue. During my past visits to Tulsa, the whole city seemed depressing. Tulsa has no leadership and no vision. The freakin city can't even afford to keep some of their highway lights on at night. Open your eyes and look around; Tulsa sucks right now. Get some momentum going for your city, pass something like MAPS and get the ball rolling. If you have a problem with my opinions on things, tough. I'm not going to cater to you and your feelings and lie about what I truly think of the city, sorry. Criticism won't always be constructive and that is life.
> 
> I give credit where credit is due, and the only thing I can give Tulsa credit for a citizen having the comity pride to spend $100+ million on a park for the city, congrats. As I've said, we'll see where OKC is in 15 years and then we'll take a look at Tulsa, good luck to you man, and perhaps even the two cities can one day work with one another to better themselves.


PluPan, I luv ya, but...

I do have to disagree with you.  Tulsa may not be a bright shining star right now but, man oh man, it sure does have a lot that OKC doesn't...like nice hotels along the highway (for example east of Yale along the south side of I-44), they actually have a master trails system for jogging/cycling that morphs what OKC has.  The city is beautiful from the distance no matter where you are (due to the rolling Green Hill country and a REAL river).  Tulsa is actually working on building a low water dam south of the Creek Turnpike which will cover up those sandbars.  The south sides of Tulsa have very nice streets for traffic flow (I remember when I was a kid and 71st between Yale and Lewis was only a two lane wide road)!  Last but not least Tulsa has an enriched art scene and community.  I give Tulsa props personally.

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## Snowman

I like where the fit and finish seems to be going on this project more than ours.

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## Chautauqua

> Keep telling yourself that. I'll let the actions speak for themselves. Let's see where Tulsa is in 15 years vs. OKC.
> 
> BTW, I frequently visit Tulsa, and the place is turning into a dump, really fast. Bring some leadership and vision to your city, and I'll respect it. To add, that, just completely forget that I have mentioned I sincerely hope it works out for Tulsa and that they benefit from this. Forget that I have posted several threads in this section in concern for Tulsa and their projects.
> 
> I speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and if that is too much for you handle, I don't know what else to say there, ol' chap.



You are right.  I am an old chap.  Old enough to know that the course of history isn't written in just 15 years.  This is a great time in OKC's history. Enjoy it.  It's not often that one is able to recognize the golden years while they are happening.  Usually we realize they were golden in hindsight, after they are gone.


What is incomprehensible is how you can claim to be a frequent visitor to Tulsa and say its on the decline.  That is false. It just is.  It ruins your credibility as a critic...and just makes you a troll.

Edit: By the way, the park is going to be amazing. It's an amazing location and site, and Michael Van Valkenburg, who is the designer, is a rock star in Landscape Architecture circles. The best on planet earth.    Thanks to GKFF, The Tulsa Community Foundation and all of the other individual donors to the park.  Hopefully we can be thanking the taxpayers for some of the $$ after November 12 too.

Tulsa's new golden years are ahead of us.  But not as far away as everyone thinks.

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## HangryHippo

> You are right.  I am an old chap.  Old enough to know that the course of history isn't written in just 15 years.  This is a great time in OKC's history. Enjoy it.  It's not often that one is able to recognize the golden years while they are happening.  Usually we realize they were golden in hindsight, after they are gone.
> 
> 
> What is incomprehensible is how you can claim to be a frequent visitor to Tulsa and say its on the decline.  That is false. It just is.  It ruins your credibility as a critic...and just makes you a troll.
> 
> Edit: By the way, the park is going to be amazing. It's an amazing location and site, and Michael Van Valkenburg, who is the designer, is a rock star in Landscape Architecture circles. The best on planet earth.    Thanks to GKFF, The Tulsa Community Foundation and all of the other individual donors to the park.  Hopefully we can be thanking the taxpayers for some of the $$ after November 12 too.
> 
> Tulsa's new golden years are ahead of us.  But not as far away as everyone thinks.


OKC and Tulsa need golden years to last.  I hope that's what we're seeing now.  Tulsa is getting better as is OKC.  We're improving every day.  This is great for Oklahoma.

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## OKCisOK4me

Tulsa's park is going to be way more amazing than OKC's.  It's already in a natural setting along the REAL Arkansas River (which is dammed below the old railroad bridge/trails bridge) along with historic neighborhoods to the east of it.  OKC's park is going to be properties and streets bulldozed, dirt formed and built with wooded sections, prairie sections, grand lawn sections, lake sections, trails sections in an area that is nothing like what Tulsa already has and there will be nothing around it but crappy neighborhoods (people that don't care about upkeeping their properties) and empty lots expected to be filled with core-to-shore development.

Tulsa's is going to be far more grand in the short run than OKC's because there's not anything already in place.  Don't get me wrong, I hope one day ours is surrounded by all kinds of urban residential developments that are also filled with retail spots and I hope the Lower Park is lined by a restored and reinvigorated Hub Cap Alley.  

Cheers to Tulsa though for the foresight on this park!

----------


## HangryHippo

> Tulsa's park is going to be way more amazing than OKC's.  It's already in a natural setting along the REAL Arkansas River (which is dammed below the old railroad bridge/trails bridge) along with historic neighborhoods to the east of it.  OKC's park is going to be properties and streets bulldozed, dirt formed and built with wooded sections, prairie sections, grand lawn sections, lake sections, trails sections in an area that is nothing like what Tulsa already has and there will be nothing around it but crappy neighborhoods (people that don't care about upkeeping their properties) and empty lots expected to be filled with core-to-shore development.
> 
> Tulsa's is going to be far more grand in the short run than OKC's because there's not anything already in place.  Don't get me wrong, I hope one day ours is surrounded by all kinds of urban residential developments that are also filled with retail spots and I hope the Lower Park is lined by a restored and reinvigorated Hub Cap Alley.  
> 
> Cheers to Tulsa though for the foresight on this park!


Honestly, what I think would have been better for OKC would have been to develop a riverside park going along the Oklahoma River instead of perpendicular to it.  We're just insisting on this C2S stuff, but that's what I personally would have preferred.  Of course, we ran I-40 parallel to it so we'll go with it, but it could have been done better.

----------


## Chautauqua

Actually I agree with the sentiment that the only thing these two projects have in common is that they are open space.  But I don't look at it as Gathering Place>Core2Shore.  They just serve different purposes from an urban development standpoint....I WISH Tulsa's downtown had better connections to the river.  But our founding fathers had the foresight to found the town on high ground....so its about 3/4 of a mile away if you take Denver Ave into downtown from Riverside.  Core2Shore is a really smart thing to do...how often does a city get an opportunity to create open space like that in its business district? 

If I ever gave the impression that C2S sucked...that was not my intent.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

Lol, I never read that from your posts, nor do I hope anyone reads that out of mine.  I just know that development around our park is going to take much longer than people expect and it won't be a true gathering place for the masses as envisioned until there are residential units built around it for people that care.

----------


## bchris02

> Lol, I never read that from your posts, nor do I hope anyone reads that out of mine.  I just know that development around our park is going to take much longer than people expect and it won't be a true gathering place for the masses as envisioned until there are residential units built around it for people that care.


You are right.  Core 2 Shore, as totally envisioned, probably won't be in full swing until 2025 or maybe even 2030.  The park is definitely part of a long term plan.  It's my hope that it is completed during a decent economy so we can more quickly start to see residential towers go up surrounding it.

As far as OKC vs Tulsa, I think OKC should be more willing to recognize areas where Tulsa is obviously ahead and learn from them.  There are many, and I am not going to list them but its not anti-OKC to say Tulsa is better in this or that area.  With the right investment and good luck, OKC could catch up to and surpass Tulsa in almost every area they are ahead within five years.  Likewise, it would be cool if more Tulsa residents would acknowledge OKC's recent successes and stop seeing them as a threat to Tulsa's cultural superiority and getting defensive about it.  Tulsa may be the arts/cultural capital of the state but OKC isn't _that_ far behind.  It's not like OKC is completely devoid of any culture or creative class like some Tulsa civic boosters try to say it is.

When comparing OKC and Tulsa, the part of the equation many people leave out is history and where each city started at.  OKC pre-MAPS was not a good place to live.  It was somewhat of a miniature southern Detroit without the posh suburbs to prop it up.  Tulsa, at its worst, was merely an OK place to live but never fell into the type of despair OKC did in the 1980s.  The transformation in OKC has been nothing short of monumental considering where it started.

----------


## Spartan

We need to stop comparing OKC and Tulsa. They are different cities, both doing well. When one recognizes the essence of what Tulsa is and how it is different from OKC, one understands that Tulsa is perfectly content with not growing by leaps and bounds. The development community is more content by making waves with lots of small pebbles rather than just a few large boulders, and they are doing it independently of the stink that is their political leadership, because it is a beautiful city worth loving and investing in regardless of whether you get meaningful city hall connections out of it.

OKC is different, more conservative, more capitalist, more landrun, more diverse, more big city. It's a city that strives for the spotlight and for as much growth as soon as possible. OKC is striving to become Dallas whereas Tulsa likens itself as more of a Savannah or Asheville.

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## Swake

Work has started on the park. It's just utility relo so far, but it is a start.

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## Plutonic Panda

> You are right.  I am an old chap.  Old enough to know that the course of history isn't written in just 15 years.  This is a great time in OKC's history. Enjoy it.  It's not often that one is able to recognize the golden years while they are happening.  Usually we realize they were golden in hindsight, after they are gone.
> 
> 
> What is incomprehensible is how you can claim to be a frequent visitor to Tulsa and say its on the decline.  That is false. It just is.  It ruins your credibility as a critic...and just makes you a troll


Say whatever you want to say. I go to Tulsa every other week and the place sucks. I do not enjoy being there. It is depressing and I can't wait to leave. Can't tell you why that is, I just don't like the vibe at this point in time. To me it is like Austin and Memphis.... you drive through Austin and you see everything going on around you and you think "man, this city is booming!", then you drive through Memphis and you eager to just get out of the city.

That being said, do I want Tulsa to succeed? Hell yes I do! I wish nothing ill on any city, especially one in Oklahoma. I see great things ahead for Tulsa as long as their leadership changes, which I believe will happen. If I ever make it big time, there some large developments I would like to put in T-town. They have the potential and they need to utilize it. Tulsa has one of the best skylines for any city it's size and it is beautiful; it also about to get bigger within the next 5-8 years.

Don't take what I say and make it my final overall opinion of the place. There things I like about Tulsa, believe it or not.... it just won't ever be the city OKC is.

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## Plutonic Panda

Update on the park:




> *Williams to showcase A Gathering Place for Tulsa model*
> 
> *For the next seven weeks, One Williams Center will showcase a large model of A Gathering Place for Tulsa, the philanthropist-led park development to be located along Riverside Drive.*
> At a news conference Friday, Williams announced naming commemorations for the park and unveiled the 23- by 10-foot model. It will be on display in the atrium from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. weekdays until May 28.
> 
> “Williams is proud to support A Gathering Place for Tulsa, and we welcome everyone to come see the model,” Williams CEO Alan Armstrong said. “We are committed to making Tulsa a great place to live. This park is going to do great things for our city’s economic and social sustainability.”
> 
> Williams was the first major donor to partner in the park development with a 10-year, $16 million pledge announced last year. Fittingly, the *Williams Lodge will be the park’s primary welcome and gathering center for visitors.*


Some more details:




> This legacy will continue with certain park elements carrying the Williams name. *The main entry street on Riverside will be named for John H. Williams*, who believed in the project and its benefits for the city.
> 
> The community room, housed in the Williams Lodge, will carry Joe Williams’ name. *The community room will be a space to host gatherings, receptions, dinners and events.*





> Phase I of A Gathering Place will be constructed from 26th to 31st streets on the east side of Riverside Drive and from 26th Street to 33rd Place along the west side.





> *The official groundbreaking is scheduled for late June or early July. Construction is scheduled for completion in late 2017.*





> *Phase I of the project is estimated to cost $300 million*, including $50 million to purchase the land. The Kaiser Foundation bought the acreage and has committed another $125 million toward construction of the park.


Read more from Tulsa World here: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local...a4bcf6878.html

------------------------


This will be an awesome asset to Tulsa and likely one of the best regional parks around. This park easily beats any park I've seen even in Dallas. Can't wait to explore it in person.

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## Plutonic Panda

Here is the website and some more renderings!

Lodge Concept


Lodge and water play concept


other renderings





*Some other layout plans*










*Overhead layout*











*Some other useful graphics and charts*












The conceptual presentation with tons of more pictures, concepts, and the overall goal for the park: CONCEPT PRESENTATION | A Gathering Place For Tulsa


A Gathering Place For Tulsa | Tulsa, OK

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## Plutonic Panda

A few more renderings:






(I tried not to post pictures that have already been posted, if I did, sorry in advance and please let me know or request they be removed)

View more renderings here(there are tons of them):

Gathering Place Unveiled June 2013 | A Gathering Place For Tulsa

Unveiled Presentation 6/18/13 | A Gathering Place For Tulsa

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## Plutonic Panda

Existing statues being moved for this project...




> *13 River Parks sculptures to be moved out of A Gathering Place construction path*
> 
> Thirteen pieces of art along River Parks trail system will be relocated to accommodate construction of A Gathering Place for Tulsa park on Riverside Drive.
> 
> The George Kaiser Family Foundation, which is constructing the park with financial assistance from corporate and philanthropic organizations, will provide a grant to River Parks to cover the cost of the relocations.
> 
> "We are hoping to find a home for most of them — if not all of them — in River Parks. That would be our first choice — or at least in the public setting," said River Parks Executive Director Matt Meyer.
> 
> River Parks includes 26 miles of asphalt-surfaced trails stretching along the east bank of the Arkansas River from 11th to 101st streets and along the west bank from 11th to 71st streets. River Parks also oversees the Katy Trail between Sand Springs and Tulsa and the dirt trails on Turkey Mountain.
> ...

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## Dustin

Kaiser Foundation donates A Gathering Place to River Parks Authority - Tulsa World: Newshomepage3

Big news

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## Plutonic Panda

Wow. I am actually jealous of Tulsa with this. What a nice park.





















This is nicer than any park I've seen in Dallas. F#ckin awesome!!!!!!

- http://www.tulsaworld.com/photovideo...d2265daa7.html

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## ljbab728

Sorry, but all of the big pencils sticking up out of the ground don't do anything for me.

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## Bullbear

> Sorry, but all of the big pencils sticking up out of the ground don't do anything for me.


Hahahahaha. I hope you are kidding..lol thats good!

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## bombermwc

I'm not really sure how to feel about this one. The overall idea seems like it's a good one, but it all feels very disconnected...and full of crap. They say they are trying to tie it all together through landscaping, but it seems to me that if you want to have different areas serve different purposes, then that's fine....in fact make it VERY clear that they are different areas. It's like they dont really know which way they want to go.

The play areas look like they will be a blast for the kids though. So many places are so worried about lawsuits and crap that they dont get creative with their equipment anymore. I'm glad to see something different being done. If the thing is done the way that it's shown here, i would imagine that it will be full of families all the time. Not knowing what materials they are going to use, the look of it makes me concerned that storms will cause significant damage though. There are a LOT of pieces there. Maintenance will be a pain in the rear and will take a lot of money.

I also like the fact that they are trying to incorporate some adult activities like the water features. Movie in the park things always fizzle out, but at least that area could be used for other things like Shakespeare in the Park, or some local concerts, etc. 

This is what the Myriad and the Central park SHOULD be trying to do with each other.....activities for all in a place that allows everyone to do more than one thing (unlike most smaller parks).

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## Eddie1

I'd have to say, if built as planned, it seems much more inspired/imaginative than the latest OCK renderings we've seen.

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## soonerfan_in_okc

Good God plutonic panda, I don't even know where to start.

As a kid growing up in OKC (not edmond, or moore, or norman, but okc), I remember when our downtown was a pile of empty buildings and would imagine what it would look like if we got another tower.  We have alot of NEW momentum going for us, yes, but lets not act like it has been that way forever.  Tulsa for a long time has had the money to get past there ****ty city government, and you need to look no further than Utica park.  OKC has nothing like that and quite frankly we never will.  We can try to turn Classen curve into it, but its not.  You cant build the look and feel of a well aged outdoor mall.  Next you should drive around areas like swan lake, brookside, and all the neighborhoods in between.  Aside from manuvering around an art museum that visually puts any in OKC to shame (philbrook) you will notice that those areas of town have been well kept for years.  

Also, I just moved to Tulsa from OKC and have never experienced any of the animosity you speak off. Quite frankly the way you approached this thread in an attacking manner leads me to believe that you may have been the instigator in those conversations.  OKC has PLENTY of really rough areas you and any other person from the OKC area need to convince your city government fix out before you worry about the problems of tulsa (10th street, lyerwood, segments of NE and SW okc).  I imagine though that you tend to avoid those areas.

Both cities are great, and have positives that out weigh each other.  OKC is fortunate to be the capital of the state and have a major university just 20 minutes south as well as 2 minutes east, and Tulsa is one of the most philanthropic cities in america (much more so than okc, just check out the united way campaigns).  How about we build each other up instead of tear each other down?

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## Plutonic Panda

I'm actually just about to leave to drive to Tulsa right now. I go there all the time. It is a crappy city man. I'm sorry to have to say it, but the place absolutely sucks.

I give credit where it is due, and while Tulsa has a few(and I use that word strongly) nice venues, nearly the whole city is littered with horrible streets and parking craters.

I'm not going to get into another pointless debate about this. Tulsa will grow and is already looking at a few nice developments. Hopefully it works out for them.

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## Plutonic Panda

Groundbreaking ceremony for 'A Gathering Place for Tulsa' scheduled for Sept. 20 - KJRH.com

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## Plutonic Panda

Gathering Place groundbreaking is Saturday - Tulsa World: Gatheringplace

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Proposed facility for A Gathering Place has some residents upset - Tulsa World: Gatheringplace

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## Plutonic Panda

Construction begins on Tulsa's newest park - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

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## Plutonic Panda

Dirt-moving begins for Gathering Place - Tulsa World: Gatheringplace

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## Spartan

What kind of development is going to be catalyzed around this site? Tulsa has limited growth opportunities...

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## Plutonic Panda

> What kind of development is going to be catalyzed around this site? Tulsa has limited growth opportunities...


Are they going to develop around the park? I thought they were going to try and keep it secluded at least somewhat.

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## Spartan

So Tulsa continues to flounder on development.

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## Plutonic Panda

> So Tulsa continues to flounder on development.


Well, I could be wrong. I'll have to dig up the link, but I swore I saw somewhere that they were creating a buffer zone around the park so development wouldn't happen, but if someone knows otherwise, please correct me. In the meantime, I'll see if I can track down where I read that, but it was earlier this year, so it might take me a minute,

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## BG918

> What kind of development is going to be catalyzed around this site? Tulsa has limited growth opportunities...


Well there are existing historic neighborhoods to the north and east, and the river to the west.  Downtown is two miles to the north and will be directly connected to the park via the Midland Valley trail, which is popular with joggers and bikers since it connects downtown, Cherry Street and midtown neighborhoods to the river trails.  The area around the trail just north of 21st Street will be ripe for new development, similar to how the Katy Trail has spurred new projects and restaurants in Dallas.

The area that is targeted for new higher density residential development is at the south end along Crow Creek.  There will be a new trail along the creek that connects this development to the Brookside corridor a half mile to the east.


The park will be located next to the Pedestrian Bridge where the Midland Valley trail crosses the river.

----------


## Rover

That photo compresses the view and kind of makes it look closer to downtown than it will be, doesn't it?  

The area to the immediate east is pretty established modest single family housing is it not?  Also, isn't pretty immediately across the river a refinery?  

While this could be a great park, it isn't ideal for easy access to much of Tulsa and isn't in a particularly dense area.  

Are they damming up the river as part of this?  Otherwise, the riverbed is exposed alot.  Would be much prettier with good low water dam system.

tulsa.jpg

----------


## Snowman

> That photo compresses the view and kind of makes it look closer to downtown than it will be, doesn't it?  
> 
> The area to the immediate east is pretty established modest single family housing is it not?  Also, isn't pretty immediately across the river a refinery?  
> 
> While this could be a great park, it isn't ideal for easy access to much of Tulsa and isn't in a particularly dense area.  
> 
> Are they damming up the river as part of this?  Otherwise, the riverbed is exposed alot.  Would be much prettier with good low water dam system.
> 
> tulsa.jpg


I think they did finally work a deal, though I think it was separate from this to fix the dam, I want to say TIF but not totally sure.

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## BG918

> I think they did finally work a deal, though I think it was separate from this to fix the dam, I want to say TIF but not totally sure.


Fixing the dam is a separate project that is currently underway.  The larger river proposal that some Tulsa city leaders are trying to levy support for involves building two new dams, one in Sand Springs and one in Jenks as well as raising the height of the current dam (by this park) and building a whitewater park there.  Those would be part of a MAPS-like vote and not part of this privately funded project.

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## Spartan

How big is the area between the park and 21st Street? I know that a few years ago there was some urban condo development happening on the south side of 21st toward this park...

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## BG918

> How big is the area between the park and 21st Street? I know that a few years ago there was some urban condo development happening on the south side of 21st toward this park...


Half mile north to 21st Street.  Those rowhomes are on 22nd.  There are a few other urban townhomes in that area.  think the area between 21st & Boston to 18th & Boston (where there is a small commercial area with  a coffee shop, a few bars and restaurants and the best BBQ in the state  :Smile:  ) will see more development once the park is finished since it will be directly linked to it by the MV trail.  The area along Crow Creek will also see more high density residential which connects to Brookside.

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## ljbab728

> The larger river proposal that some Tulsa city leaders are trying to levy support for involves building two new dams, one in Sand Springs and one in Jenks as well as raising the height of the current dam (by this park) and building a whitewater park there.  Those would be part of a MAPS-like vote and not part of this privately funded project.


Hmm.  I wonder why they would have ever thought about building a whitewater park?  LOL

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## Swake

> Hmm.  I wonder why they would have ever thought about building a whitewater park?  LOL


The white water section has been talked about for many years. It was even part of the river package that was voted down back in 2007.

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## Swake

> That photo compresses the view and kind of makes it look closer to downtown than it will be, doesn't it?  
> 
> The area to the immediate east is pretty established modest single family housing is it not?  Also, isn't pretty immediately across the river a refinery?  
> 
> While this could be a great park, it isn't ideal for easy access to much of Tulsa and isn't in a particularly dense area.  
> 
> Are they damming up the river as part of this?  Otherwise, the riverbed is exposed alot.  Would be much prettier with good low water dam system.
> 
> tulsa.jpg


The park site is just a mile south of the downtown loop and the Cherry Street area and has Riverside running through the middle of it. It’s only five blocks from the Brookside area and Utica Square is just a mile to the east. It’s not hard to get to or isolated and it’s in the wealthiest area of the entire state. The immediate neighborhood is Maple Ridge and it is very established and expensive. The houses right around 31st street are smaller, but I wouldn’t call them modest. Even a small 1500 sq ft house will go for over $200k and the home sizes and prices go up the closer you get to 21st street. At the north end of the park houses can go for $750k or more and houses closer to 21st or on the other side of Peoria go up into the multiple millions. The area for future dense development is where the Place One apartments are today along Crow Creek going up to Peoria and the Brookside area. Currently there are denser town house complexes  and a high rise condo building about four blocks to the north of the park. Taking out houses for development might be possible right on Riverside or south of 31st but it will be fought hard by the Maple Ridge and Brookside HOAs. 

There is the dam currently at 31st Street so most of the park will have a full river all the time anyway. That dam is undergoing repairs now but needs a full rebuild. The cities along the river are looking at ways  redo the current dam and build new dams at 106th Street near Jenks, in Sand Springs and maybe in Broken Arrow and Bixby. The plans do not include water in the river in the area south of 31st, that’s the area where the white water park would be done by narrowing the river and feeding the park water from the dam at 31st. Tulsa, Sand Springs and Jenks voted in favor of the 2007 river project bond issue but the vote failed with oppositions in cities not on the river. The idea now is to find other funding (the feds authorized $100 million for Tulsa river projects almost 10 years ago but have never funded it) or hold a vote for taxes only in the impacted cities.

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## BG918

> Tulsa, Sand Springs and Jenks voted in favor of the 2007 river project bond issue but the vote failed with oppositions in cities not on the river. The idea now is to find other funding (the feds authorized $100 million for Tulsa river projects almost 10 years ago but have never funded it) or hold a vote for taxes only in the impacted cities.


I think for the Gathering Place to really live up to its potential the river needs to be addressed as well.  Hopefully voters will be more accepting of a future proposal.  What is the timeline for any kind of vote?  It would be great if at least the Zink Dam rebuild could be complete by the time the park is finished or not long after.

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## Spartan

West bank development would help with that. I liked the island idea, a la  Mud Island.

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## Dustin

Cool flyover of the progress!

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## TU 'cane

Pretty slick, thanks for posting.

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## Swake

The Gathering Place project team has fired Tulsa based Manhattan Construction as the Construction Manager for the project and replaced them with Crossland, reportedly over a disagreement on the timeline to build the park.

----------


## Swake

$29 million Children's museum to open at The Gathering Place in 2020:
Children's Museum Gets Kaiser Grant | Public Radio Tulsa

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## shawnw

There's something else we could have done with the film exchange.... sigh...

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## TU 'cane

It's really hard to gauge progress here, the cams are usually out of date to the tune of anywhere by a few days to a couple weeks from what I've seen. 

Of course, they've supposedly been working on the land bridges first and want to get those completed and then complete the rest of phase I (should be done by late 2017) behind the bridges. Phase II isn't as complex, and I think should only take an additional year completing some time in 2018, but that's tentative. 

Here's a pic I could get that at least shows the proximity to downtown for perspective:

Capture.jpg

Of course the picture comes out small even when you click on it... Anyway, as it's been posted, you can always keep up here: A Gathering Place For Tulsa - Tulsa, OKA Gathering Place For Tulsa | Tulsa, OK

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## Swake

Drone video of the progress in the park

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/gathe...6f.html?x=9786

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## Swake

A video and interview about progress at the park from The Frontier, warning, it's over 10 minutes long. 
https://www.readfrontier.org/multime...g-place-tulsa/

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## OKCisOK4me

I was looking at Google Maps the other day and I'm surprised that they could not incorporate the old with the new...ya know, that they had to rip out the old railroad bridge over Riverside Drive. That area will never have the same feel.

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## shavethewhales

^Isn't the old railroad bridge staying put? Obviously they have to rebuild the park end, but it was included in all the concept art. Looks like it is still there in the construction cams.

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## BG918

> ^Isn't the old railroad bridge staying put? Obviously they have to rebuild the park end, but it was included in all the concept art. Looks like it is still there in the construction cams.


The bridge that was removed was over Riverside.  The bridge over the river is still there.  Part of the overall plan for the bridge is to replace that section over the road and deck the top of the bridge over the river.  That way bikes would use that and walkers/joggers can use the area below.  This $7 million project, funded through the Vision 2025 renewal, also includes upgraded lighting and approach ramps on both sides.  I don't know the timeline but assume they would want that done by the time they open the park late next year.

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## Swake



----------


## HangryHippo

> 


I am so looking forward to this! What an incredible park for Tulsa!

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## Pete

I love the way they are capping part of the roadway to bridge the river areas to the main park.

Can't wait to see the final product.

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## Paseofreak

I can't wait to be completely deflated by the pasture Hargreaves designed for us here in OKC.

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## OKCisOK4me

> I can't wait to be completely deflated by the pasture Hargreaves designed for us here in OKC.


Yeah, I give Tulsa much more in the way of props. Tunnels are cool.

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## TU 'cane

Phase I completion is still on track from what I can gather for later this year. Immediately after, phase II begins and completes in 2018. 

Then, Tulsa has a world class interactive park that will be a tremendous benefit to the entire area. 

Top that with the River Spirit expansion 4 miles South and Riverside will become a full fledged destination. Mayor Bynum has also made it a priority to get studies going for the river. I think he wants the river to be his legacy. We'll see how that goes.

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## BG918

> Phase I completion is still on track from what I can gather for later this year. Immediately after, phase II begins and completes in 2018. 
> 
> Then, Tulsa has a world class interactive park that will be a tremendous benefit to the entire area. 
> 
> Top that with the River Spirit expansion 4 miles South and Riverside will become a full fledged destination. Mayor Bynum has also made it a priority to get studies going for the river. I think he wants the river to be his legacy. We'll see how that goes.


The second round of ancillary projects will be kicking off as the park nears completion followed by Phase 2 at the southern end of the park:
- Major improvements to Zink Dam by the park includes raising the water level and making the dam safer (part of Vision 2025 renewal)
- $7 million renovation of the adjacent Pedestrian Bridge across the river into a double decker bridge for joggers/walkers on the bottom and bikes on top (part of Vision 2025 renewal)
- Whitewater flume underneath the Ped Bridge on the east side (part of the Vision 2025 renewal)

Phase 2
- $30 million Tulsa Children's Museum at the south end of the park, already in the design phase (partly funded by GKFF, Vision 2025 and local donors)
- Crow Creek Hike/Bike Trail from the park to Brookside (in the planning/fundraising stage)
-Mixed-use residential along Crow Creek (former Crow Creek apartments)

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## TU 'cane

Thanks for the details, I had forgotten what exactly phase II entailed.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

> Thanks for the details, I had forgotten what exactly phase II entailed.


I rent a home off of 33rd and have the last few crow creek apartment units behind my fence. They are almost completely vacant now, so hopefully they start on the mixed use housing soon. 

Speaking of, were there ever any more specific details released on what type of housing would go in?

----------


## BG918

> Speaking of, were there ever any more specific details released on what type of housing would go in?


Nothing has been publicly released but I know it's in the planning stages with Construction not starting until after Phase 1 is complete.  From a Tulsa World article:



> Phase 1 is expected to be completed in late 2017.  Phases 2 and 3 call for an extension of the park, a children’s museum, and mixed-use, mixed-income housing.

----------


## Swake



----------


## TU 'cane

Cool, thanks Swake. 

And that's just the northern end for those who don't know. There's another portion South (top of the pic) that I think will *mostly* be included in phase two.

----------


## BG918

Tulsa voters approved funding for rehabbing the current pedestrian bridge that connects the park to the west bank trails, which is a converted railroad bridge, but that was going to be too expensive and a replacement bridge could be built for the same cost.  Here are some of the preliminary proposals:











https://www.readfrontier.org/stories...rkansas-river/

----------


## HangryHippo

That first one is awesome.

----------


## Dustin

> That first one is awesome.


+1 

Definitely the first one.

----------


## Dustin

I am legit jealous that Tulsa is getting this park.

----------


## HangryHippo

> I am legit jealous that Tulsa is getting this park.


Me too.  It's going to be amazing!

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

They started tearing down the last segment of empty apartments yesterday.  These are the ones where the crow creek residential development will go. I know this becauSe they are right behind my house, it's pretty cool to see.

----------


## Swake

> They started tearing down the last segment of empty apartments yesterday.  These are the ones where the crow creek residential development will go. I know this becauSe they are right behind my house, it's pretty cool to see.


I hope you own your house, your property value is about to explode.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

> I hope you own your house, your property value is about to explode.


I wish. My landlord is great though, I don't pay nearly as much as I should. I hope that doesn't change soon.

----------


## TU 'cane

Play towers have been delievered to the park and will be erected soon. I haven't seen any updates regarding the timeline. I'm assuming phase one is still on schedule to be completed this year (December 1st was the date I heard most recently).

http://m.newson6.com/Story.aspx?stor...3&catId=112042

----------


## BG918

The city narrowed down the design concepts for the new pedestrian bridge to four finalists:
#1

#2

#3

#4

----------


## dankrutka

I like the openness of 1 and the weirdness of 4.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Yeah ewwww to 2 and 3. Can't go wrong with 1 or 4.

----------


## HangryHippo

They picked some damn ugly finalists, but of them, I'd have to go with #4.

----------


## KayneMo

I like 1 and 4 as well.

----------


## BG918

> They picked some damn ugly finalists, but of them, I'd have to go with #4.


One of the requirements is that it fit the modest $24.5 million budget for the project.

----------


## traxx

I like 4 because it appears to have some green areas.

----------


## Dustin

I don't see anything that tops 4.  I has an organic yet modern look and it kinda looks like a skeleton!

----------


## Jeepnokc

I'll be the odd guy out.  I like 2.  Nice simple curves and it appears to have a wide area towards the west end for congregating on the bridge.  Be a nice place for benches and to sit and relax.

----------


## Spartan

4.

----------


## Swake

Options one and four have moved to the next stage. The designers have been asked to take public input on the designs and see how the bridges can be improved based on that input.

The architects will work with project engineers from this point on to make sure the designs meet the $25 million budget. Mayor Bynum has also asked that designers come up with alternate $40 million options on the designs as the city is going to work on getting donors to increase the budget.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local...ce7892175.html

----------


## BG918

The park and Riverside Drive have delayed opening until "late spring or summer 2018".  The Children's Playground is supposed to open ahead of everything else in January 2018.  

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagela...8c23c7eab.html

Phase II and the Tulsa Children's Museum are supposed to break ground in late 2018 and be completed by 2020.  That is around the time the low water dam, whitewater flume and new pedestrian bridge should be completed *crosses fingers*

----------


## TU 'cane

The "Gateway Bridge" is the chosen winner (design #1 above). 
Construction will begin in 2018. 

More information and renderings: 

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local...b40f0f426.html

----------


## Dustin

Amazing progress

----------


## OKCisOK4me

That park will be waaaay better than scissortail.

----------


## gopokes88

> That park will be waaaay better than scissortail.


Yeah but it's still Tulsa

----------


## Dustin

> Yeah but it's still Tulsa


I feel like I'm in a different state when I visit Tulsa.  It has a different vibe.  It might be all the QuikTrips...

The area around Utica Square is beautiful.

----------


## HangryHippo

> That park will be waaaay better than scissortail.


I'm very jealous of it.  It's going to be an amazing park!

----------


## Decious

Going to be an amazing park!

----------


## BG918

> I feel like I'm in a different state when I visit Tulsa.  It has a different vibe.  It might be all the QuikTrips...
> 
> The area around Utica Square is beautiful.


Agree it has a completely different feel than OKC especially along the river and in midtown.  And this park will fit in well in this area as most of it was already green space before.  

Besides the attractions like the playgrounds, boathouse, whitewater flume and trails this is also the crossing point for two of the main trails through Tulsa: the Midland Valley which will cross the river on the new pedestrian bridge and connects the park to Cherry St and downtown; and the east bank river trails which are now separated into two trails for walking/jogging and biking all the way from 11th to the Jenks pedestrian bridge and Creek Turnpike trail (over 10 miles).  Eventually there will also be a trail along Crow Creek that connects the park to Brookside.

----------


## gopokes88

> I feel like I'm in a different state when I visit Tulsa.  It has a different vibe.  It might be all the QuikTrips...
> 
> The area around Utica Square is beautiful.


It's a really cool town, that comment was mostly tongue in cheek.

----------


## Dustin

August update

----------


## Swake

Flyover of The Gathering Place by KOTV
http://www.newson6.com/story/3711001...athering-place

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Nice! This will be a beautiful park and will only become more beautiful as it matures. Is the children’s museum still on schedule? 

Couple of side notes: if they ever go big on I-44 in between Tulsa and OKC after it’s widened to six lanes and build HSR, a bike path would be really cool to have between the two cities. What happening with development in Tulsa? Haven’t heard much lately.

----------


## HangryHippo

This is going to be incredible. Im jealous.

----------


## BG918

> Nice! This will be a beautiful park and will only become more beautiful as it matures. Is the childrens museum still on schedule? 
> 
> Couple of side notes: if they ever go big on I-44 in between Tulsa and OKC after its widened to six lanes and build HSR, a bike path would be really cool to have between the two cities. What happening with development in Tulsa? Havent heard much lately.


The children's museum is part of Phase 2 that starts in 2019.  That also includes a proposed mixed-use residential development on the south side of the park along Crow Creek and a trail connecting it to Brookside.  

There is a lot of new infill development in downtown and in midtown either under construction or proposed.  Not very many large projects but rather lots of smaller ones which is how Tulsa typically does urban infill.  The two biggest proposed projects downtown are Santa Fe Square (the hotel portion is U/C, the office and apartment portions are supposed to start next year) and the PAC Block midrise apartments which may or may not have a grocery store included, that remains to be seen.  Both of those projects fill huge holes downtown, and if a full service grocery is built will be a true game changer for future development.

----------


## dankrutka

Wow. The park looks just incredible... but I does not look like it'll be ready for people in January.

----------


## BG918

Saw this cool shot on FB, getting closer to being finished this summer!

----------


## Dustin



----------


## Ross MacLochness

Looks amazing.

----------


## Dustin

Great recent 4k drone footage of the park.

----------


## Rover

I’m sure it will be great, but looks like a park Disneyland.  It looks like they just threw everything they could think of into it.

----------


## 5alive

^^^^^^

----------


## BG918

Remember the main park is Phase 1 of the larger project which includes the reopening of Riverside Dr through the tunnels.  Phase 2 will include more park space and a new building for the Tulsa Children's Museum where there is currently staging and construction offices for Phase 1 along Crow Creek.  There is also the city-funded new pedestrian bridge over the river as well as the replacement of the existing low water dam and the creation of a whitewater rafting flume in the river that will open along with Phase 2.  Phase 3 is mixed-use development where the Crow Creek apartments are currently located as well as a trail connecting all of this to Brookside along the creek.

----------


## Swake

Latest video of the half billion dollar park ($465 million) due to open this summer

https://www.facebook.com/tulsaworld/...5623982696446/

----------


## Jeepnokc

> Latest video of the half billion dollar park ($465 million) due to open this summer
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/tulsaworld/...5623982696446/


Very cool.  Definitely a step up for them and world class.

----------


## BigTulsa

Announced this morning that the park will open on Sept 8

----------


## HangryHippo

> Latest video of the half billion dollar park ($465 million) due to open this summer
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/tulsaworld/...5623982696446/


That looks SO nice!

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Very cool.  Definitely a step up for them and world class.


Yeah from everything Ive heard, this literally will be one of the nicest parks in the WORLD and thats coming from several international business people that have been through Tulsa over the last year or so. Its very impressive.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

I find it neat how OKC and Tulsa are both building great parks, but funded them in entirely different ways. 99%, if not every dollar, of the gathering place is being paid for by private funds. George Kaiser picked up the phone enough and made it something that companies & foundations felt like they would miss out on if they didn’t commit a few hundred thousand (or million) dollars.the location was already established which surely helped, but the park is a perfect way for outsiders to see how generous Tulsa is.  Meanwhile, Okc citizens decided to take it upon themselves to turn around an important plot of land for a stronger community. . A perfect example of how OKC isn’t afraid to pay for things it believes in.

----------


## Eric

> I find it neat how OKC and Tulsa are both building great parks, but funded them in entirely different ways. 99%, if not every dollar, of the gathering place is being paid for by private funds. George Kaiser picked up the phone enough and made it something that companies & foundations felt like they would miss out on if they didn’t commit a few hundred thousand (or million) dollars.the location was already established which surely helped, but the park is a perfect way for outsiders to see how generous Tulsa is.  Meanwhile, Okc citizens decided to take it upon themselves to turn around an important plot of land for a stronger community. . A perfect example of how OKC isn’t afraid to pay for things it believes in.


It is quite generous of roughly 54% of the voters to FORCE one of the most regressive forms of taxes on those that can least afford it to pay for a park that they likely won't use. That's one take I guess.

I do share your sentiment that I think it is cool that both cities seem to be doing this simultaneously. I think in the long run the Tulsa park will be received better and used more than the OKC park. River Parks were already pretty heavily used and this appears to just be an extension of that. Plus tons of programming is being included. And Tulsa has been known to really utilize well designed parks, or at least well placed. I think Guthrie Green is an excellent example of this. Also a Kaiser project I believe.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> It is quite generous of roughly 54% of the voters to FORCE one of the most regressive forms of taxes on those that can least afford it to pay for a park that they likely won't use. That's one take I guess.
> 
> I do share your sentiment that I think it is cool that both cities seem to be doing this simultaneously. I think in the long run the Tulsa park will be received better and used more than the OKC park. River Parks were already pretty heavily used and this appears to just be an extension of that. Plus tons of programming is being included. And Tulsa has been known to really utilize well designed parks, or at least well placed. I think Guthrie Green is an excellent example of this. Also a Kaiser project I believe.


I think that’s a pretty weak take based on the success of all the maps projects, especially given all the private investment they’ve stimulated around them.

After spending extensive time in both cities, I would say that MBG is utilized as much as any green space in Tulsa so I have little doubt our park, which is also connected to the river, will be heavily utilized. No doubt though, the gathering place will be the nicer park. I just wish OKC would do something to beautify our river trails and parks..it’s definitely nicer than it was before being damned but the area around the river is so ugly right now outside of a few areas (like the boat house district, wheeler, etc). Hopefully the development spurred by the park will transform the area.

----------


## BG918

> I think that’s a pretty weak take based on the success of all the maps projects, especially given all the private investment they’ve stimulated around them.
> 
> After spending extensive time in both cities, I would say that MBG is utilized as much as any green space in Tulsa so I have little doubt our park, which is also connected to the river, will be heavily utilized. No doubt though, the gathering place will be the nicer park. I just wish OKC would do something to beautify our river trails and parks..it’s definitely nicer than it was before being damned but the area around the river is so ugly right now outside of a few areas (like the boat house district, wheeler, etc). Hopefully the development spurred by the park will transform the area.


Hey at least OKC always has water in the Oklahoma River and had the foresight to build locks with the dams for navigation.  The Arkansas River in Tulsa is at the whim of PSO releasing water from Keystone Dam and while the area of Zink Lake (by the Gathering Place) typically is full of water there are areas downstream that can be a giant sand bar several months of the year.  It ruins what is otherwise a really beautiful setting with all of the trees and parks along the river banks.  

There is funding in place for improvements to the Zink Dam to raise the water level by a few feet which will be good for keeping the river full by the Gathering Place and up by downtown, and for another LWD down by Jenks but these projects a ways out.  It is too bad the new pedestrian bridge and dam improvements won't be finished when the park opens but hopefully will be by the time they complete the second phase (additional park area along 31st/Crow Creek and the new children's museum).

----------


## Eric

River Parks is at least a 6 mile long park. There is no way MBG is utilized by as many people as River Parks is. I'm not making commentary about how nice either are. Just that I expect one to get used by more of the population than the other. It's not insulting (or at least I didn't think it was). It just stands to reason that basically hitching A Gathering Place on to River Parks is only gonna make it that much more desirable. 

Water in the Arkansas will do absolutely nothing to make Tulsa River Parks more desirable. It's all location. Like I said it's a 6+ mile long park. It goes by a ton of rooftops, as basically the entirety of Riverside Speedway has no commercial activity (except the 71st Street intersection area). It's not that kind of river either, at least at that point. I personally am a let nature be what it is gonna be type of person so I honestly don't mind it the way it is, and I don't think there is really all much stammering for water in the river in Tulsa either.

And the stimulation of River Parks is almost 100% to redevelopment of residential. Obviously this doesn't get the headlines. But it is happening.

Guthrie Green (a much smaller park than MBG) has done it's fair share of stimulating in my estimation. Come check out the Brady District (or whatever they call it now).

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Hey at least OKC always has water in the Oklahoma River and had the foresight to build locks with the dams for navigation.  The Arkansas River in Tulsa is at the whim of PSO releasing water from Keystone Dam and while the area of Zink Lake (by the Gathering Place) typically is full of water there are areas downstream that can be a giant sand bar several months of the year.  It ruins what is otherwise a really beautiful setting with all of the trees and parks along the river banks.  
> 
> There is funding in place for improvements to the Zink Dam to raise the water level by a few feet which will be good for keeping the river full by the Gathering Place and up by downtown, and for another LWD down by Jenks but these projects a ways out.  It is too bad the new pedestrian bridge and dam improvements won't be finished when the park opens but hopefully will be by the time they complete the second phase (additional park area along 31st/Crow Creek and the new children's museum).


No doubt. It's a shame that it's taken them this long to realize that damming the river was a worthwhile expenditure especially after everything we've done with ours over the last 15 years. I'm excited for them to finally do it.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> River Parks is at least a 6 mile long park. There is no way MBG is utilized by as many people as River Parks is. I'm not making commentary about how nice either are. Just that I expect one to get used by more of the population than the other. It's not insulting (or at least I didn't think it was). It just stands to reason that basically hitching A Gathering Place on to River Parks is only gonna make it that much more desirable. 
> 
> Water in the Arkansas will do absolutely nothing to make Tulsa River Parks more desirable. It's all location. Like I said it's a 6+ mile long park. It goes by a ton of rooftops, as basically the entirety of Riverside Speedway has no commercial activity (except the 71st Street intersection area). It's not that kind of river either, at least at that point. I personally am a let nature be what it is gonna be type of person so I honestly don't mind it the way it is, and I don't think there is really all much stammering for water in the river in Tulsa either.
> 
> And the stimulation of River Parks is almost 100% to redevelopment of residential. Obviously this doesn't get the headlines. But it is happening.
> 
> Guthrie Green (a much smaller park than MBG) has done it's fair share of stimulating in my estimation. Come check out the Brady District (or whatever they call it now).


Though I didn't phrase it very well, I guess my point was that percentage wise, MBG is probably utilized as much or more than any green space in Tulsa. 

Water in the Arkansas will definitely make the river parks more desirable. Obviously the aesthetic improvement will be huge but there are plans to add water activities along the river that are only possible if it's consistently full which will draw more people to the river parks. 

Agreed about the residential development, the areas between Peoria and the river have started blowing up with new residential development as the Gathering Place progressed. 

I basically lived in Tulsa 90% of the time over the last year or so. Spent a lot of time in the Brady (or whatever new PC name they came up with)

----------


## shawnw

Tulsa Arts District

Soon to be located on Tulsa Boulevard   :-P

----------


## rte66man

> Hey at least OKC always has water in the Oklahoma River and had the foresight to build locks with the dams for navigation.  The Arkansas River in Tulsa is at the whim of PSO releasing water from Keystone Dam .....


What?  Keystone Dam was always built for flood control.  The Corps of Engineers controls the releases.  I highly doubt they ask PSO if it's ok before they open the gates.

----------


## Swake

At one point the McClellan-Kerr system was going to come into Tulsa with locks for actual shipping navigation onto the The Gulf, but it ended up stopping in Catoosa instead.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

Not sure if it was mentioned already, but the Roots are going to be performing on the evening they open the park. A nice get. I live right by it so I am looking forward to listening to it from my back yard.

----------


## BG918

> What?  Keystone Dam was always built for flood control.  The Corps of Engineers controls the releases.  I highly doubt they ask PSO if it's ok before they open the gates.


PSO generates hydroelectricity from the releases.  The Corps controls releases related to flood control.

----------


## BG918

> At one point the McClellan-Kerr system was going to come into Tulsa with locks for actual shipping navigation onto the The Gulf, but it ended up stopping in Catoosa instead.


The project was already way over budget and a cost saving idea was to terminate in Catoosa on the Verdigris where the elevation is a couple hundred feet lower than Tulsa thus cutting out additional locks and dams as well as new higher clearance bridges.  I’ve been told they wanted to build the port along the West Bank just north of I-44.

----------


## dankrutka

> Not sure if it was mentioned already, but the Roots are going to be performing on the evening they open the park. A nice get. I live right by it so I am looking forward to listening to it from my back yard.


Wow, that’s awesome!

----------


## BG918

Recent aerial photo

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

> Wow, that’s awesome!


Yep, I’m pumped! They have already hired a few full time staff members to book and run activities at the park.  Will be neat to see the kind of things they bring in over the next few years.

----------


## OKCisOK4me

That is 1000% better than OKC's downtown park.

----------


## Eric

I will have to say, exploring the website, this park is pretty incredible. The amount of thought and planning that has gone in to this is impossible for me to fathom. 

I still contend that the location of this just drives home that this park is for the people of Tulsa.

The aerial imagery on Google appears to have been updated as it appears to be taken pretty recently. It's even more impressive how much they squeezed into this massive space.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> That is 1000% better than OKC's downtown park.


Thats what spending almost 2.5 times the money in an area that’s 5 acres smaller will get you.

----------


## BG918

> I will have to say, exploring the website, this park is pretty incredible. The amount of thought and planning that has gone in to this is impossible for me to fathom. 
> 
> I still contend that the location of this just drives home that this park is for the people of Tulsa.
> 
> The aerial imagery on Google appears to have been updated as it appears to be taken pretty recently. It's even more impressive how much they squeezed into this massive space.


The biggest downside IMO is that it's entirely surrounded by residential neighborhoods.  It would have been better if it was closer to downtown and could've spurred new urban development.  I have hope that the old Crow Creek apartments to the south will be redeveloped into something denser and mixed-use but haven't seen or heard anything about those plans.  I also hope they can find funding for a hike/bike trail link to Brookside a half mile to the east to better link this attraction to the existing retail/restaurant corridor along Peoria.  

The next phase includes replacing the pedestrian bridge across the river and improvements to Zink Dam that raises the water level in the lake to 10' and creates a whitewater flume:

----------


## dankrutka

Yeah, I agree that this park would be even better with mixed use developments near by, but it does have a great bike trail that allows for easy access from the entire downtown/Pearl District/Cherry Street area. But, yeah, it would be great to see some density and retail build up around it to the extent that is possible.

----------


## ChrisHayes

You can't compare the park in OKC to the Tulsa park. For one thing, the geography of OKC drastically different than that of Tulsa. Tulsa a lot of natural hills and even the river is different. Not to mention, large swaths of eastern Oklahoma are natural forest. Secondly, the park in OKC is nowhere near complete. They still have yet to plant 900 trees, put down sod, and finish up just about every building. Give it time! I just wish they were bringing in trees that were a bit more mature. Or are they?

----------


## Ross MacLochness

> You can't compare the park in OKC to the Tulsa park. For one thing, the geography of OKC drastically different than that of Tulsa. Tulsa a lot of natural hills and even the river is different. Not to mention, large swaths of eastern Oklahoma are natural forest. Secondly, the park in OKC is nowhere near complete. They still have yet to plant 900 trees, put down sod, and finish up just about every building. Give it time! I just wish they were bringing in trees that were a bit more mature. Or are they?


they are

----------


## OKCisOK4me

> You can't compare the park in OKC to the Tulsa park. For one thing, the geography of OKC drastically different than that of Tulsa. Tulsa a lot of natural hills and even the river is different. Not to mention, large swaths of eastern Oklahoma are natural forest. Secondly, the park in OKC is nowhere near complete. They still have yet to plant 900 trees, put down sod, and finish up just about every building. Give it time! I just wish they were bringing in trees that were a bit more mature. Or are they?


I knew someone would say this, and to save your breath, there is no time in the world for our park to get on par with Tulsa's park. Obviously the programming and landscaping is nowhere near complete with our park . But look at the scope of programming in Tulsa's tiny park compared to ours (which is primarily composed of a lake and a large outdoor concert venue with a band shell). The difference between who OKC and Tulsa hired for design is world class (as the title of this thread) and it's in Tulsa's favor.

Kudos to Tulsa for a job well done!

My only negative view is them replacing the old railroad bridge for a more modern pedestrian connection, but I'm a railroad buff so my point is biased.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> That is 1000% better than OKC's downtown park.


i think gathering place will be very nice ... but i don't think this is remotely true ...    it May turn out to be better .. but i dont think that is a lock

----------


## gopokes88

> I knew someone would say this, and to save your breath, there is no time in the world for our park to get on par with Tulsa's park. Obviously the programming and landscaping is nowhere near complete with our park . But look at the scope of programming in Tulsa's tiny park compared to ours (which is primarily composed of a lake and a large outdoor concert venue with a band shell). The difference between who OKC and Tulsa hired for design is world class (as the title of this thread) and it's in Tulsa's favor.
> 
> Kudos to Tulsa for a job well done!
> 
> My only negative view is them replacing the old railroad bridge for a more modern pedestrian connection, but I'm a railroad buff so my point is biased.


Right, but Tulsa is only getting a park. We're getting a new CC, streetcar, white water rapids, and all the extra investments because of the maps 3 investment.

You can't compare the two. No doubt tulsa's park is bigger and better, but our park is just a sliver of the Maps 3 story.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> I knew someone would say this, and to save your breath, there is no time in the world for our park to get on par with Tulsa's park. Obviously the programming and landscaping is nowhere near complete with our park . But look at the scope of programming in Tulsa's tiny park compared to ours (which is primarily composed of a lake and a large outdoor concert venue with a band shell). The difference between who OKC and Tulsa hired for design is world class (as the title of this thread) and it's in Tulsa's favor.
> 
> Kudos to Tulsa for a job well done!
> 
> My only negative view is them replacing the old railroad bridge for a more modern pedestrian connection, but I'm a railroad buff so my point is biased.


Tulsa’s Park isn’t tiny, it’s only a little under 5 acres smaller than our park. I guess those are differences but the primary difference is that Tulsa is dumping almost 2.5 times the money into a slightly smaller space. It was also funded through public gifts and not a sales tax. We could’ve hired the best park designer in the world but it’s tough to match the gathering place’s programming on less than half the budget.

----------


## PhiAlpha

> Right, but Tulsa is only getting a park. We're getting a new CC, streetcar, white water rapids, and all the extra investments because of the maps 3 investment.
> 
> You can't compare the two. No doubt tulsa's park is bigger and better, but our park is just a sliver of the Maps 3 story.


Exactly.

----------


## Eric

> Tulsa’s Park isn’t tiny, it’s only a little under 5 acres smaller than our park. I guess those are differences but the primary difference is that Tulsa is dumping almost 2.5 times the money into a slightly smaller space. It was also funded through public gifts and not a sales tax. We could’ve hired the best park designer in the world but it’s tough to match the gathering place’s programming on less than half the budget.


I see it similarly as well. I really don't see much of a comparison other than both are called parks. They weren't designed to be similar so why are we even making comparisons?

----------


## BoulderSooner

tulsa also isn't really spending much more money than okc .. 

phase 1  which is their park   (phase 2 is mostly the museum)     is about the same cost as ours .. 

their 450 mil numbers included money for the endowment and the public works projects adjacent to the park 


also the pedestrian bridge over the river is a separate city project

----------


## jedicurt

i guess i'm in the small minority, but i don't think it looks good.  every time i see the flyovers and such, i keep thinking "wow, this is more concrete than actual park"

----------


## Rover

> i guess i'm in the small minority, but i don't think it looks good.  every time i see the flyovers and such, i keep thinking "wow, this is more concrete than actual park"


It will be nice, but I too think it looks a little tricked up... too much going on.  I actually like the semi programmed, semi natural feel of ours.  But let’s wait til both are finished.  I think they are apples and oranges...both good, but different.

----------


## jedicurt

> It will be nice, but I too think it looks a little tricked up... too much going on.  I actually like the semi programmed, semi natural feel of ours.  But let’s wait til both are finished.  I think they are apples and oranges...both good, but different.


i will make a trip up and check it out before giving a final verdict... but yes, it just looks too busy and not enough actual "Park"

----------


## Dustin

NY Times piece 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/10/a...ing-place.html

----------


## Rover

Very nice article.

----------


## BG918

Some recent pictures ahead of the grand opening in a few weeks









One of the Riverside tunnels

----------


## HangryHippo

This looks stunning!  I love it.

----------


## baralheia

Absolutely amazing! Looks great!

----------


## Johnb911

I hadn't really been jealous from the overhead shots further up the thread.  I am now.

----------


## jedicurt

i'm still waiting to reserve judgement when i see it in person... but it just looks like way too much for me.  i'm much more excited about our park that will have grass and trees and not just be chaos as kids go from one playground to another...

the 3rd picture above is the only one that makes me really want to go see it...  the rest... nope.

----------


## Swake

> i'm still waiting to reserve judgement when i see it in person... but it just looks like way too much for me.  i'm much more excited about our park that will have grass and trees and not just be chaos as kids go from one playground to another...
> 
> the 3rd picture above is the only one that makes me really want to go see it...  the rest... nope.


The Gathering Place is not an independent park, it will be part of the larger Riverparks system. If you want wide open grassy areas, Riverparks has that across the river and half a mile north at RiverWest Festival Park where events like Oktoberfest are held. If you want a mountain wilderness area with trails, you can have that too at Turkey Mountain Urban Wilderness three miles south. There are more traditional less programmed park spaces all up and down the river. There’s the Route 66 Monument at the end of Riverparks downtown near Crybaby Hill. Riverparks has a soccer complex, a rugby field, disk golf course and an existing skate park in addition to the one at The Gathering Place. Riverparks is really just one huge park with all sorts of elements reaching more than 10 miles up and down the river with trails all along the banks linking it all together. 

http://www.riverparks.org/wp-content...-Parks-Map.pdf

----------


## BG918

Some more pictures before the grand opening

Greenery around the Williams Lodge


Playground areas


Boat dock


The pond


New jogging/bike trail along the river (it looks like they are still working on the river bank areas which is why it is still fenced off)


Skyline view from the cafe

----------


## HangryHippo

Incredible!  I am so jealous of/happy for Tulsa.

----------


## BG918

This is a cool drone shot from June.  Pete needs to take a trip up the turnpike and get some shots!

----------


## shawnw

Opens on Saturday and will be a madhouse I'm sure.

----------


## OkieHornet

> Opens on Saturday and will be a madhouse I'm sure.


The Roots are playing a free show there at 5pm Saturday.

----------


## shawnw

While I'd love to see the Roots for free, I can't even imagine what the traffic and crowds will be like, other than introvert hell. So... I'll pass...

----------


## dankrutka

> While I'd love to see the Roots for free, I can't even imagine what the traffic and crowds will be like, other than introvert hell. So... I'll pass...


No doubt it's going to be crazy. One of the best things about this park is how closely it's connected with good trails. It's really safe and easy to bike the Midland Trail from downtown to the park. That would definitely be my route there when it's busy.

----------


## Swake

> No doubt it's going to be crazy. One of the best things about this park is how closely it's connected with good trails. It's really safe and easy to bike the Midland Trail from downtown to the park. That would definitely be my route there when it's busy.


The Gathering Place opening and Comic Con all in one weekend.

----------


## shawnw

I know it's not the same thing, but our park is also along our river, connected to its trails... not trying to one up anything, but it's been mention several times about gathering/river/trails, so thought I'd point that out...

----------


## dankrutka

True and a good point. I would say Tulsas trails are slightly more accessible to core areas though. Imagine if there was a separated bike trail from Scissortail to Paseo that passed several districts in between... thats what Tulsa has. You can ride from 3rd Street, Pearl District, downtown, Cherry Street, and 18th & Boston on a separated, safe bike lane to the Gathering Place. Thats not even to mention the Riverside Trail, which is a more popular version of OKCs river trail.

----------


## Decious

This park is a great great thing for Tulsa. I have a few friends(mid-30s) who live there and can honestly say that their entire outlook for Tulsa has been altered because of this project. 

Also impressive is the framing that has been done leading up to the opening. I really think that it's a breakthrough moment for Tulsa. Amazing things could be built around this park and the momentum carrying over from this project could really push Tulsa forward. I believe that it will.

----------


## PaddyShack

I can only hope that a booming Tulsa furthers the need for a better transit connection between Tulsa and OKC, and maybe even up to Kansas City...

----------


## jonny d

I do think the importance of this park is being slightly overstated. It is an awesome looking park, don't get me wrong! But people are making it seem like it will have the same effect as like, Central Park. It isn't. And it isn't downtown. That is something OKC's has going for it. This park does take advantage of the better river (Arkansas vs. Canadian) so I will give it that. But to say this park is infinitely better than what OKC is getting is a far stretch.

Just my opinion.

----------


## Pete

> I know it's not the same thing, but our park is also along our river, connected to its trails... not trying to one up anything, but it's been mention several times about gathering/river/trails, so thought I'd point that out...


Imagine if we had $350 million in a free gift...  Scissortail Park and a good chunk of the river could be a lot different.

I've said this before but OKC doesn't get much in terms of free money gifts.  We've had some sponsorships by corporations (boathouses, events, etc.) and Aubrey gave some personal money to Boathouse Row projects, but absolutely nothing close to what Kaiser (and others) have done for Tulsa or what seems to be more common in most other cities.

----------


## Decious

> I do think the importance of this park is being slightly overstated. It is an awesome looking park, don't get me wrong! But people are making it seem like it will have the same effect as like, Central Park. It isn't. And it isn't downtown. That is something OKC's has going for it. This park does take advantage of the better river (Arkansas vs. Canadian) so I will give it that. But to say this park is infinitely better than what OKC is getting is a far stretch.
> 
> Just my opinion.


Legit. I get that. 

I agree that it may be overstated but several of my Tulsa friends have made perspective changes for their families largely because of this park. Its real to them and thats a great thing. Fleeting high? Maybe. I dont think so. Theyre also... due to renewed optimism... discovering other things in Tulsa that have always been there but that they took for granted. I guess that happens in the real world too... and not just on OKCTalk. HA!

As far as our park... I cant wait! I wasnt thinking about a comparison. I take my kids to the Myriad Gardens now and Scissortail will only enhance that. Love that its specifically downtown. Glad that its on the SC line etc. All in. Nevertheless, The Gathering Place is a huge deal for Tulsa. Great stuff.

----------


## jonny d

> Legit. I get that. 
> 
> I agree that it may be overstated but several of my Tulsa friends have made perspective changes for their families largely because of this park. It’s real to them and that’s a great thing. Fleeting high? Maybe. I don’t think so. They’re also... due to renewed optimism... discovering other things in Tulsa that have always been there but that they took for granted. I guess that happens in the real world too... and not just on OKCTalk. HA!
> 
> As far as our park... I can’t wait! I wasn’t thinking about a comparison. I take my kids to the Myriad Gardens now and Scissortail will only enhance that. Love that it’s specifically downtown. Glad that it’s on the SC line etc. All in. Nevertheless, The Gathering Place is a huge deal for Tulsa. Great stuff.


And I was not meaning that as a slight to the Gathering Place. It is more directed at the people who are using this park to further prosecute OKC. Both have their benefits. One accentuates its natural surroundings, and the other will fill a huge void in an otherwise blossoming south downtown area of OKC. Let's not let this park mean OKC is failing. That was all I was saying.

----------


## Pete

One huge difference between the Tulsa park and Myriad Gardens / Scissortail is that the latter already has hundreds of millions in construction projects rising all around with much more to come.

The Gathering Place mainly backs up to nice residential areas and therefore will not spur anywhere near the same level of new investment.

The parks are just very different in many ways, down to even the fundamental purpose.

----------


## Decious

> And I was not meaning that as a slight to the Gathering Place. It is more directed at the people who are using this park to further prosecute OKC. Both have their benefits. One accentuates its natural surroundings, and the other will fill a huge void in an otherwise blossoming south downtown area of OKC. Let's not let this park mean OKC is failing. That was all I was saying.


Completely agree.

----------


## BG918

> One huge difference between the Tulsa park and Myriad Gardens / Scissortail is that the latter already has hundreds of millions in construction projects rising all around with much more to come.
> 
> The Gathering Place mainly backs up to nice residential areas and therefore will not spur anywhere near the same level of new investment.
> 
> The parks are just very different in many ways, down to even the fundamental purpose.


Very true, that to me is one of the biggest detractors from this park is that its impact is somewhat constrained by its surroundings.  Though to the south there is space for redevelopment which is part of "Phase 3".  No details have been released but it has been discussed that it will include high density residential development where the Crow Creek apartments used to be located.  I know some of the property owners around 18th & Boston 3/4 mile to the north think this will spur new development in that area since it's adjacent to the Midland Valley trail that connects the park to Cherry Street and downtown.  There is also a proposal by Coury Hospitality to build a 7 story hotel at 21st & Boston:


Phase 2 is the next big project on the south end of the site.  This will transform the areas used for construction parking and laydown into additional parkland and includes the new $35 million Tulsa Children's Museum and a trail connecting the park to Brookside.

Children's Museum rendering

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

Park opens tomorrow with a parade and finishes with the concert. I got to take part in a sneak peek this week and was really impressed. The children’s play area was overwhelming and felt a bit discombobulated, but I know I would love it if I were 10 years old.  everything else was great - my favorite part was the lounge docks on the pond.

----------


## BG918

Riverside is now open after being closed for 3 years during construction.  The jogging/bike trail along the river has also reopened.  The pedestrian bridge link to the west bank trail is still closed until the existing bridge is demolished and rebuilt starting next year.  The bridge over Riverside below will connect the ped bridge to the MV trail which goes downtown.

----------


## Laramie

My oldest son texted me saying 'Awesome' what they have done with Riverside  after he saw the 'Gathering Place.'  He still remembers the trips to Tulsa as a child fishing off the old bridge staying at the Camelot Inn.   He drives the big rigs throughout the U.S. sees a lot of country.   Loves Tulsa, he currently lives there; also commented on Kaiser's generosity.

----------


## BG918

A few more aerials from before the park opened







The boathouse at night


The playgrounds

----------


## Dustin

World. Class.

----------


## Swake

Here's some phase II renderings and info.




This is the new $45 million home for Tulsa Children's Museum Discovery Lab that is part of Phase II. It will be located on Riverside at 33rd, along Crow Creek. Construction should start next year and be done in 2020. Phase II along Crow Creek will take the park to within two blocks of the Brookside commercial district. Crow Creek is the "brook" in Brookside.

The new $60 million Zink Dam with a white water flume and the new $25 million pedestrian bridge should be done about the same time.

----------


## PaddyShack

Do you have a link or more info on the Zink Dam project?

----------


## BG918

> Do you have a link or more info on the Zink Dam project?


Zink Dam will be rebuilt while they are building the new pedestrian bridge.  Here is the plan which doesn't show the latest curved design for the bridge:


https://riverprojectstulsa.info/inde...l-improvements

----------


## Dustin

I visited this amazing park last weekend. I recommend arriving via shuttle. Parking would've been a nightmare if we had tried to drive there ourselves. We parked at Riverspirit casino and took a bus.  I'm sure it's better during the weekday. 

I felt like I was at an amusement park minus the rides. There was no lack of things to do and your eyes never got bored. Everywhere you looked, there was beauty. The detail that went into this park is mindblowing. 

Highly recommend!

----------


## John1744

Anyone been to this recently? I have a 7 and 2 year old and are always looking for outdoor things to do for a day. We're from the OKC area but curious where out of towners should park, easiest way to get there etc?

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Anyone been to this recently? I have a 7 and 2 year old and are always looking for outdoor things to do for a day. We're from the OKC area but curious where out of towners should park, easiest way to get there etc?


it is an amazing place for children   they will love it

----------


## Jeepnokc

> Anyone been to this recently? I have a 7 and 2 year old and are always looking for outdoor things to do for a day. We're from the OKC area but curious where out of towners should park, easiest way to get there etc?


We drove through the park area and there seemed to be plenty of parking there at the park.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

> Anyone been to this recently? I have a 7 and 2 year old and are always looking for outdoor things to do for a day. We're from the OKC area but curious where out of towners should park, easiest way to get there etc?


Your best bet is to park in the Lots just south of the main part of the park. Can be accessed off of 31st street just east of riverside.

----------


## midtownokcer

> Anyone been to this recently? I have a 7 and 2 year old and are always looking for outdoor things to do for a day. We're from the OKC area but curious where out of towners should park, easiest way to get there etc?


I went last Sunday and the weather was brilliant and the park was extremely busy. Had no issues finding parking, plenty of parking down near the sports courts towards the south end. It was a nice 10-15 minute walk to the center of the park (boathouse, lodge, and restaurants/shops).

----------


## JLCinOKC

No dogs, no me. Sad because I want to go see the park, but I always have my dog with me when I drive through Tulsa on the way home from Grand Lake. I've never heard of a park that won't allow dogs. It's a park, it's not a precious gem.

----------


## Pete

You can't bring a dog on a leash??

----------


## aDark

> You can't bring a dog on a leash??


Yup. Confirmed. No doggos.  :Frown:

----------


## Pete

I can understand the thinking due to the crush of people but...

I would have very little use for any park where I couldn't bring my very well behaved dogs on a lead.

----------


## JLCinOKC

> I can understand the thinking due to the crush of people but...
> 
> I would have very little use for any park where I couldn't bring my very well behaved dogs on a lead.


I have NO use for one. My dog is a geriatric miniature dachshund and poses little threat.     You can have dogs on the west side of Riverside in the old River Parks area, but I've been there, seen that. And, I've found the further away from the Arkansas River you are, the better. Not just in Tulsa, but everywhere. Big rivers stink (to me at least).

I'm glad I looked it up before I stopped and got chased away. Someone might have been cursed out.

----------


## Swake

Dogs are allowed on Wednesdays only. They are allowed in the rest of the Riverparks system on both banks.

https://www.gatheringplace.org/event...ate/2019-05-15

----------


## Plutonic Panda

So you can bring a loaded firearm but not a dog?

----------


## foodiefan

> So you can bring a loaded firearm but not a dog?


no concealed or open carry. . . https://www.gatheringplace.org/planyourday

----------


## BoulderSooner

> no concealed or open carry. . . https://www.gatheringplace.org/planyourday


A.   the tulsa police were not enforcing this already   
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loca...22b1e97af.html

and B. concealed carry is now specificly allowed   and open carry banned starting NOV 1st 

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/stat...e49af345d.html

----------


## shawnw

weird to allow dogs on one day but not the others

----------


## BG918

> weird to allow dogs on one day but not the others


I wondered if they would change that as things normalize at the park.  It absolutely was the right call for the first several months, the crowds were huge and didn't need to add dogs to that mix.

I know my kids would hate it, they are scared of dogs...

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

The section that dogs are not allowed has tons of activities - there is not much to do with your dog there anyways. It’s not an open green space for folks to sit with their pets. It’s tons of slides, jungle Gyms, sports courts, etc.

----------


## Zorba

> I wondered if they would change that as things normalize at the park.  It absolutely was the right call for the first several months, the crowds were huge and didn't need to add dogs to that mix.
> 
> I know my kids would hate it, they are scared of dogs...


Yeah, I didn't realize how many kids are scared of dogs until my daughter started hanging out with daycare friends. Tons of them are scared of dogs. 

Although most dogs are fine, with the numbers of people out there there would be incidences and I am completely fine with them banning dogs because of that.

----------


## BG918

Water getting close to the trails by the Gathering Place but staying out of it, at least for now.  Nearly to the bottom of the old pedestrian bridge that will be torn down over the next year.

----------


## dcsooner

I have NEVER seen the Arkansas river at this location this high. Simply incredible. Praying that here and other areas of the State will be spared additional significant rainfall so that the receeding can commence.

----------


## BoulderSooner

> I have NEVER seen the Arkansas river at this location this high. Simply incredible. Praying that here and other areas of the State will be spared additional significant rainfall so that the receeding can commence.


flooding level releases from keystone lake started yesterday and go until sunday   ..

----------


## Dustin

Parts of the Gathering Place are now underwater.

----------


## Laramie

Let's hope & pray for the best possible outcome as many areas in Oklahoma and the mid-west region are affected by record storms & rainfall we haven't seen in the region since the 80s.

----------


## BoulderSooner

keystone is now at record height   and the inflow still excedes the exflow  

release is now at 285000 CFS   

which is flood level ..  and if the catchment area gets any more rain   they may have to go to 300000 cfs release which will match the 1986 tulsa flood level

----------


## Zorba

> keystone is now at record height   and the inflow still excedes the exflow  
> 
> release is now at 285000 CFS   
> 
> which is flood level ..  and if the catchment area gets any more rain   they may have to go to 300000 cfs release which will match the 1986 tulsa flood level


Flood level through Tulsa is 105000 CFS. They are very far beyond flood levels. I can't believe how little coverage these floods have gotten in OKC. Ft Smith has closed basically every bridge into town. The flow through Muskogee hit over 650,000, about 3x Niagria Falls levels, or enough to completely fill Keystone lake every 8 hours.

----------


## BG918

> Flood level through Tulsa is 105000 CFS. They are very far beyond flood levels. I can't believe how little coverage these floods have gotten in OKC. Ft Smith has closed basically every bridge into town. The flow through Muskogee hit over 650,000, about 3x Niagria Falls levels, or enough to completely fill Keystone lake every 8 hours.


Tulsa has largely been spared the brunt of the severe flooding up to this point, the notable exception being the River Spirit casino.  The RiverParks were designed as a flood barrier and have worked in that capacity separating neighborhoods from the river, though the water has covered Riverside Dr in a few locations.  Gathering Place has closed due to the danger being so close to swift-moving high water but the main portion of the park itself is not affected and was actually designed with sluice gates to redirect floodwaters away from the pond.  

The biggest threats in the city are areas behind levees on the north and west sides of the river, and newer neighborhoods built in the flood plain around 121st & Delaware.  Also anywhere a creek enters the river can back up, as well as storm sewers in areas close to the rising water.

There are plenty of other areas like Sand Springs and Muskogee that haven't been as lucky and will take awhile to rebuild once the water recedes.

----------


## BG918

Some of the now underwater sports courts and nature trail area along the river


Other sports courts are dry


The rugby field near 38th & Riverside


The rest of the park is mostly unaffected


Further north by Blue Rose Cafe and the new Cosmopolitan apartments


Overview

----------


## jedicurt

oh man... i hadn't really seen pictures of it yet. dang... that's going to take a lot of time and money to clean up

----------


## Dustin

If there was any park in the country that could rebound quickly from damage like this, it's the well-funded Gathering Place. Once the river recedes, they will have it looking like new in no time.

----------


## Dustin

On the bright side, everything is so GREEN!

----------


## BG918

> oh man... i hadn't really seen pictures of it yet. dang... that's going to take a lot of time and money to clean up


It’s really not that bad, mostly just areas along the water that were designed to be a flood barrier.  The primary damage in RiverParks is to the trail itself which has collapsed in some parts and playground areas that are underwater.  The clean up will be more extensive at River Spirit and flooded low-lying neighborhoods in Sand Springs and Bixby.  Hopefully they don’t release any more water and the levees hold up.

----------


## Zorba

> It’s really not that bad, mostly just areas along the water that were designed to be a flood barrier.  The primary damage in RiverParks is to the trail itself which has collapsed in some parts and playground areas that are underwater.  The clean up will be more extensive at River Spirit and flooded low-lying neighborhoods in Sand Springs and Bixby.  Hopefully they don’t release any more water and the levees hold up.


Yeah, it sucks that all the new trails have been damaged. Looks like there has been a lot of bank erosion too that will need to be repaired.

Muskogee and on down stream is where the extensive damage is. 

Luckily they were able to slightly pull back flows a couple of hours ago.

----------


## warreng88

My wife, daughter and I went back again this weekend. We noticed there were several areas, specifically the infant area and one of the entrances of the buildings were closed off and under renovation. None of these places were close to the river and so they weren't affected by flooding. This place has been open for less than a year and they are already having to come in and do work. Does anyone know why? Were the crowds a lot larger than they anticipated and that caused more wear and tear? Has the weather affected it? Shoddy construction?

----------


## BG918

> My wife, daughter and I went back again this weekend. We noticed there were several areas, specifically the infant area and one of the entrances of the buildings were closed off and under renovation. None of these places were close to the river and so they weren't affected by flooding. This place has been open for less than a year and they are already having to come in and do work. Does anyone know why? Were the crowds a lot larger than they anticipated and that caused more wear and tear? Has the weather affected it? Shoddy construction?


Probably normal wear and tear, though the crowds may have had something to do with it.  Last time I was there everything looked fantastic, they really do a great job with the landscaping and overall upkeep.

----------


## shavethewhales

There are some spots where I question the materials used. Some of the fancy stones that they quarried for this park are kind of flaky, and were already having issues with chips falling off of them from day one. Some of the materials just aren't well suited to a park with so many visitors coming through. I'm sure they've had millions of visits already. The place stays pretty packed out.

----------


## BG918

> There are some spots where I question the materials used. Some of the fancy stones that they quarried for this park are kind of flaky, and were already having issues with chips falling off of them from day one. Some of the materials just aren't well suited to a park with so many visitors coming through. I'm sure they've had millions of visits already. The place stays pretty packed out.


I can agree with that, could be why they are already fixing certain areas.  I think they could've done a better job with making "Peggy's Pond" more natural-looking but understand the rock liner will eventually have vegetation over time.  I've never seen kayaks or paddle boats out there, not sure what the plan is for introducing those activities.  

And I know the gravel lots on the south side are temporary but seems like they could've made those better if they're going to be "temporary" lots for 2-3 years.  Last I heard Phase 2 won't be starting until the middle of next year which at that point I'm not sure if they'll just build the permanent parking lots in that area first and use those, that would make the most sense.  

A lot of people don't realize the park is only about halfway finished.  They still have Phase 2 to build which is another 20 acres of park space and the 50k sq ft Tulsa Children's Museum south of 31st.  The city still has to demo the existing pedestrian bridge and rebuild the new one that connects the Midland Valley and east bank trails to the west bank trails along the river.  The city will also build a whitewater flume underneath the new pedestrian bridge and make improvements to the existing river bank next to the Gathering Place.  Finally there is a mixed-use development that is planned for Phase 3 along Crow Creek and a new trail that follows the creek and connects everything to Brookside.

----------


## Laramie

At least they'll have time to assess the park's overall strengths & weaknesses.  Make that enormous investment pay off for Tulsa; also attract tourists & out-of-state new money to Oklahoma's Green Country. 

 A win-win for all of Oklahoma.

----------


## d-usa

Finally visited today. This place is amazing, and all the play structures made me feel like I was back in Germany. What a great place for kids.

----------


## Swake

Phase II of the Gathering Place is getting underway. 

First up is the new facility for Tulsa's children's museum/science center Discovery Lab, which broke ground at the south end of the Gathering Place this week.

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news...aking-ceremony

The new low water dam is slated to start construction in July. The new dam will increase the level of the river 3' from the current dam and will include a white water rafting section below the Gathering Place.


The new pedestrian bridge will start construction at the same time as the dam.

----------


## soonerfan_in_okc

Best thing about this park is the $100 million endowment to fund upkeep & staff. Any wear & tear issues will be fixed, unlike
Your average city park.

----------


## Swake



----------


## BG918

Update on the adjacent Zink Dam and pedestrian bridge project:




> The key elements of the Zink Dam reconstruction project include replacing and increasing the number of gates, from three to 15. The gates will range in height from 3 feet to 10 feet. The tallest gates in the existing dam are 7 feet high. *A 1,000-foot-long flume for kayaking and other water activities will be built along the east bank of the Arkansas River south of the pedestrian bridge.* And Tulsans will finally get a true Zink Lake, with water backing up to well north of the 21st Street Bridge.





> *Zachary said he is hopeful that construction can begin in September and be completed in 2023. Work on the new pedestrian bridge over the Arkansas River is expected to begin at about the same time and be completed in late 2022.*


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/zink...aeb4170c8.html

----------


## Plutonic Panda

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/ga...7e4e61513.html

Demo on the old pedestrian bridge will begin in a month or so and construction will take 28 months. Beautiful bridge to be built!

----------


## BG918

Renderings of the new bridge that will start construction by the end of this year




This will replace the existing bridge that will be demolished.  Once complete the new bridge will connect to the east bank river hike/bike trail and Midland Valley trail to Cherry St and downtown

----------


## Plutonic Panda

https://tulsaworld.com/entertainment...me-top-story-1

----------


## shawnw

Transit Authority Approves Funds for Gathering Place Shuttle
https://www.publicradiotulsa.org/pos...-place-shuttle

----------


## Plutonic Panda

The pedestrian bridge’s arches are arriving:

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/go...e69b98ff7.html

----------


## Dustin

I was in tulsa yesterday and decided to drive by. Landscaping is looking rough... The deep freeze really did a number on this place. Lots of dead shrubs and trees. I wonder if there is a plan to replant a lot of it? If there is, it's going to be a big endeavor.

----------


## BG918

> I was in tulsa yesterday and decided to drive by. Landscaping is looking rough... The deep freeze really did a number on this place. Lots of dead shrubs and trees. I wonder if there is a plan to replant a lot of it? If there is, it's going to be a big endeavor.


There was an article about the freeze damage and they mentioned the Gathering Place was replacing damaged trees and shrubs but as you said it will take time.  What’s interesting is that they intentionally planted native flora and even it was damaged by that freeze.  Though funny enough I noticed the palms by the rock canyons are all in good shape  (they are native to SE OK)

----------


## shavethewhales

One of the design flaws of GP is that the landscaping is designed to look "wild" while also requiring a tremendous amount of care to not look terrible. A lot of the "native" plant areas fill up with weeds pretty quickly. They have to replace a huge number of plants each year and do a lot of seasonal planting. It's extremely expensive, but George Kaiser did leave a large endowment to pay for it for a generation or so. 

Here's an update on the bridge from a few weeks ago. It is slowly coming along. The west side is more or less "complete" in the sense that the dam is in place and the structural elements of the bridge are done. They are now into the much more intensive eastern side including the portion that will connect to GP.

----------


## dcsooner

Is this a bridge to Oil Storage tankers or is there something meaningful on the other side?

----------


## BoulderSooner

> Is this a bridge to Oil Storage tankers or is there something meaningful on the other side?


will connect to the river parks trail ..

----------


## BG918

> Here's an update on the bridge from a few weeks ago. It is slowly coming along. The west side is more or less "complete" in the sense that the dam is in place and the structural elements of the bridge are done. They are now into the much more intensive eastern side including the portion that will connect to GP.


This phase includes tearing down the rest of the old dam and bridge and building the remainder of the new dam and bridge along with an island for the whitewater flume on the east side.  Once the new dam and flume are complete next year the Gathering Place will finish its portion of the riverfront allowing the chain link construction fencing to finally come down.  

As they get closer to completion there they will turn their attention to the third and final phase where the gravel parking lots are located on the south side of the park.  That will be redeveloped into mixed-use housing, potentially up to 400 units, and the trail extension to Brookside.

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## shartel_ave

> 


IMO, Scissortail Park is an urban park in the city center, which I prefer, and The Gathering Place is a big playground with some good attractions plus OKC has the boathouse district with a huge playground.  I like The Gathering Place but it doesn't feel like an urban park in anyway compared to Scissortail Park especially with live from the lawn for outside concerts with a capacity of at least 28k people.  And having the Omni and convention center across the street adds even more to the park.

Both are great I just prefer Scissortail Park overall it has more of a central park/golden gate park feel.  As far as my playground comment; Tulsa's Gathering Place was named National Geographic's list of 12 Mind-Bending Playgrounds Around the World,

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## PhiAlpha

> IMO, Scissortail Park is an urban park in the city center, which I prefer, and The Gathering Place is a big playground with some good attractions plus OKC has the boathouse district with a huge playground.  I like The Gathering Place but it doesn't feel like an urban park in anyway compared to Scissortail Park especially with live from the lawn for outside concerts with a capacity of at least 28k people.  And having the Omni and convention center across the street adds even more to the park.
> 
> Both are great I just prefer Scissortail Park overall it has more of a central park/golden gate park feel.  As far as my playground comment; Tulsa's Gathering Place was named National Geographic's list of 12 Mind-Bending Playgrounds Around the World,


Yeah I really think Tulsa could use a downtown park somewhere between the size of MBG and scissortail in the massive sea of parking lots south of downtown. It would get rid of a bunch of surface parking that wouldn’t be developed for a awhile anyway with most surface development being closer to the core and pushing north/east and bridge the gap between downtown and Midtown (cherry st, riverside trails and the surrounding neighborhoods). The Gathering place is awesome but there’s a pretty decent lack of green space downtown outside of Guthrie green and a few other really small parks.

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## Swake

> Yeah I really think Tulsa could use a downtown park somewhere between the size of MBG and scissortail in the massive sea of parking lots south of downtown. It would get rid of a bunch of surface parking that wouldn’t be developed for a awhile anyway with most surface development being closer to the core and pushing north/east and bridge the gap between downtown and Midtown (cherry st, riverside trails and the surrounding neighborhoods). The Gathering place is awesome but there’s a pretty decent lack of green space downtown outside of Guthrie green and a few other really small parks.


There's been a proposal for a "Cathedral Square" park to take up the full block of surface parking to the east of  Holy Family Cathedral and north of First Christian Church. 

Those surface lots on the south side of downtown are hard to develop because they are almost all owned by the various churches in that part of downtown or Tulsa Community College and they aren't interested in giving up parking.

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## PhiAlpha

> There's been a proposal for a "Cathedral Square" park to take up the full block of surface parking to the east of  Holy Family Cathedral and north of First Christian Church. 
> 
> Those surface lots on the south side of downtown are hard to develop because they are almost all owned by the various churches in that part of downtown or Tulsa Community College and they aren't interested in giving up parking.


I would say the churches would be easier to work with on that than private entities who are sitting on them and charging for parking. A few garages would almost entirely solve that problem and it isn’t like there’s not enough empty space for them. Im sure the city could work out something with them.

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## BG918

> I would say the churches would be easier to work with on that than private entities who are sitting on them and charging for parking. A few garages would almost entirely solve that problem and it isn’t like there’s not enough empty space for them. Im sure the city could work out something with them.


Now seems to be a good time to start planning something like that for south downtown.  All of the focus has been in the Arts District and Blue Dome so as those areas mature over the next 5-10 years the areas of south downtown and the arena district will be the next frontier.

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