# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Moore >  2013 Moore Public Schools Bond Package

## Plutonic Panda

Another big one. Wow, it seems OKC is really tackling education and going along good. 120+ million.

Moore Voters To Decide $127 Million School Bond Package - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

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## Easy180

This should pass pretty easily cause the one negative I always hear about our school district is overcrowding

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## shawnw

Question, if you live in the Moore school district, but technically live in OKC, will you get a vote?

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## Midtowner

> Question, if you live in the Moore school district, but technically live in OKC, will you get a vote?


You should.

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## SOONER8693

> This should pass pretty easily cause the one negative I always hear about our school district is overcrowding


People on the "West" side of he district have many negatives in mind, regarding misappropriation of funds slanted to the "south" and the district showing favoritism to the "south" over the "east" and "west" side schools in other areas. Could be tight.

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## Easy180

> People on the "West" side of he district have many negatives in mind, regarding misappropriation of funds slanted to the "south" and the district showing favoritism to the "south" over the "east" and "west" side schools in other areas. Could be tight.


I hear ya but I don't believe there is any chance in hellz that a bond adding new schools in Moore will go down

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## SOONER8693

> I hear ya but I don't believe there is any chance in hellz that a bond adding new schools in Moore will go down


You are probably right.

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## SoonerDave

> Question, if you live in the Moore school district, but technically live in OKC, will you get a vote?


Absolutely. Lived in OKC proper nearly all my life, but went to Moore schools, as do my kids. Voted in every bond issue I knew about. The OKC/Moore district crossover thing is a really odd duck, as the Moore school region extends into SW OKC all the way up to SW 82nd.

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## SoonerDave

> You are probably right.


Hmmm...this is based solely on memory - haven't take the time to actually look it up - but I believe a bond went down just a few years ago? Think it didn't hit the state-mandated 60% supermajority. As I said, that's a very sketchy memory, but I believe it has happened.

Will say this much - there's been a lot of, oh, shall we say, increased tensions across the district over what's perceived by some (again, I emphasize _perceived_, not saying I agree or disagree) as the preferential the treatment of Southmoore _primarily_ at the expense of Old Moore, and whether that "tension" translates to a punitive shootdown of a bond issue remains to be seen. It may well pass, but to say it's _a fait accompli_ is not entirely accurate.

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## SOONER8693

> Hmmm...this is based solely on memory - haven't take the time to actually look it up - but I believe a bond went down just a few years ago? Think it didn't hit the state-mandated 60% supermajority. As I said, that's a very sketchy memory, but I believe it has happened.
> 
> Will say this much - there's been a lot of, oh, shall we say, increased tensions across the district over what's perceived by some (again, I emphasize _perceived_, not saying I agree or disagree) as the preferential the treatment of Southmoore _primarily_ at the expense of Old Moore, and whether that "tension" translates to a punitive shootdown of a bond issue remains to be seen. It may well pass, but to say it's _a fait accompli_ is not entirely accurate.


The increased tensions across the district are serious and run deep. Hard feelings abound on both "West" and "East" side pertaining to "South" moore and many people are tired of things that are overlooked, in many areas, and are ready to do something about it. Now whether that happens remains to be seen.  People are looking into financial issues in the district and the district hasn't been exactly forthcoming wiht information. Dragging of feet. A lot of unhappy people.

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## Easy180

Looks like they both passed in the 70's

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## SoonerDave

> Looks like they both passed in the 70's


Yup. Looks like about ~4K people out of the entire district voted. Kinda pathetic. At 5pm yesterday, I was the 88th voter in my precinct.

The thing about the bonds they just agreed to issue is that the interest rate can ramp up to 10%. Maybe I can sell some blood and buy some of the bonds I'm going to be paying the interest on and get some of my money back.....

I wish the monies WERE targeted to education...but...several million are tagged for the purchase of large buses to transport athletic teams....all while older schools crumble and teachers go along with insulting salaries and administrators just kinda continue to fiddle while the rest of Rome burns....kinda sobering. 

Okay, okay, I won't turn this into a rant. I won't. Going away.

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## Just the facts

> I wish the monies WERE targeted to education...but...several million are tagged for the purchase of large buses to transport athletic teams....all while older schools crumble and teachers go along with insulting salaries and administrators just kinda continue to fiddle while the rest of Rome burns....kinda sobering. 
> 
> Okay, okay, I won't turn this into a rant. I won't. Going away.


Darn good points SoonerDave.  One of the biggest problems with education funding is that far too much of it goes to capital expenditures.  We have gotten build, abandon, replace down to a science.  It is a shame that existing homeowners have to shoulder the burden of growth, when growth itself is sold (and bought) as the solution.

Moore to vote on historic bond  Headlines  The Norman Transcript




> Residents in the Moore Public School District will decide Tuesday, Feb. 12, on a $126.4 million school bond issue that includes the construction of two elementary schools and one junior high school. If approved, it would be the largest bond issue in the district’s history.
> ...
> 
> Cost to taxpayers would be approximately $12 extra per year for every $100,000 in home value. The tax would last for five years.
> 
> ...
> 
> Moore Public Schools currently has the third largest enrollment for school districts in Oklahoma. Moore Public Schools is growing rapidly, with about 23,000 students and nearly 2,000 new enrollments in the past five years.
> 
> With more than 5,000 new home starts expected and continuing business and commercial growth in and near the school district’s boundaries, growth in Moore Public Schools is expected to continue.


You would think that people would wake up to that fact, but they just never seem to.

The Growth Ponzi Scheme - Strong Towns

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## G.Walker

Since I live in Moore, and my kids go to Moore Public Schools, I believe this is very good for the district. These additional elementary schools are much needed as the elementary school my kids attend has the largest attendance and its over crowded. Moore is one of the fastest if not the fastest growing city in the metro area...I am glad to see this passed, and I voted.

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## Just the facts

I guess I have to ask then, why aren't the Moore schools self supporting through existing property taxes?  If the system expects  constant growth why aren't normal property taxes high enough to fund the growth and stop the over-crowding before it happens?  Many schools are over-crowded the day they open.  Instead of building 2 elementary schools - build 4.

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## G.Walker

> I guess I have to ask then, why aren't the Moore schools self supporting through existing property taxes.  If the system expects  constant growth why aren't normal property taxes high enough to fund the growth and stop the over-crowding before it happens?  Many schools are over-crowded the day they open.


I really don't think Moore city leaders expected this type of fast growth. From 2000-2010 Moore's population grew at the rate of 34%. Its growing even faster now...

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## G.Walker

I believe Moore's fast growth is contributed by Moore being a 'family friendly city'. A lot of Moore's economic development is focused on retail, parks, and schools, which all caters to bring in young families to establish roots. The cost of living in Moore is pretty low compared to cities like Norman, and has easier access Oklahoma City. I wouldn't be surprised if the Moore/Norman area is the fastest growing area in the state.

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## Just the facts

Actually, never mind.  Thanks for your answers G.Walker

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## Plutonic Panda

Moore is a very nice city. My father owns a car dealer/rental dealership there. I go just about everyday and it is really coming along nicely. There's this section of 12th St. that has been taking forever to reconstruct in pavement, which is kind of weird. It seems progress has come to standstill.

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## Zuplar

I'm glad the bond issue for the schools passed. I live in a part of OKC that has Moore schools, yet the closest "building" is at least 8 miles away. Although I don't currently have kids it seems as though the school is building my direction, close to Mustang, which I can only imagine will in the long term increase property values. I was hoping that the MNTC bond didn't pass as I have never been a huge fan of Vo-Tech's. I really can't complain as I unfortunately forgot to vote. I had the best intentions but due to the snow and everything going on, I just forgot.

I was curious, does anyone know where MPS will be buying land for future schools? I've never seen any areas in which they were looking, although I know it's been mentioned they wanted to acquire some. I think it's smart planning as the Southwest area continues to develop land is only going to become less available and more expensive.

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## SoonerDave

> I guess I have to ask then, why aren't the Moore schools self supporting through existing property taxes?  If the system expects  constant growth why aren't normal property taxes high enough to fund the growth and stop the over-crowding before it happens?  Many schools are over-crowded the day they open.  Instead of building 2 elementary schools - build 4.


Because property taxes in and of themselves aren't a mathematically sound mechanism for apportioning/distributing public costs for education. In reality, its a redistribution of income mechanism. It forces two otherwise identical families with two kids attending different schools in the same district to pay entirely different amounts for, theoretically, the same education. I realize property taxes aren't going away, but I've yet to be given a sound argument why my _house_ means I should pay more for my kids' education than someone else's. 

There's also a separate argument that it forces people with no kids to pay into a system from which they derive no direct benefit, but that's obviously offset by the counterargument that everyone benefits from an educated populace.

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## Zuplar

I understand the argument against 2 families paying different prices for education, but at the same time you do still get a good education even if you are one of those that are paying more than the average family pays. Unfortunately it seems as though the more money you make, the more you spend, bigger house you buy, etc, you always wind up paying more.

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## SoonerDave

> I understand the argument against 2 families paying different prices for education, but at the same time you do still get a good education even if you are one of those that are paying more than the average family pays. Unfortunately it seems as though the more money you make, the more you spend, bigger house you buy, etc, you always wind up paying more.


And that's the core of the redistribution mechanism. A larger house implies its owner is "obviously" able to pay more, so its "fair" to take from their pockets and burden them with a tax increase that may be several _hundred_  percent higher than someone living just a few miles away. 

If I, as an individual, benefit from public education by virtue of an educated populace in the same general way a single person does (or a couple with no kids, for that matter), then we ideally should bear an equal amount of that base expense in providing it - on a per-capita basis. But the _day-to-day_ education costs are tied more to the actual bodies in the classrooms, which means a case could be made that I, with my two kids, should subsidize more of that direct expense than that theoretical no-child couple/single. And a family with 4 kids should be paying more than my family of 2 kids, and so on. But we know that'll never happen, because those who benefit the most from the subsidy aren't about to support any notion to make the distribution of expense more equitable. 

On a side note, does anyone here know if there is a constitutional or legislative cap (or floor, for that matter) on the interest rate that school systems can offer on bonded indebtedness? I was STUNNED to read that the cap on the bonds being issue in Moore was 10%. There was no mention of the _starting_ level, or how that level changes, but that it could escalate to 10% all made me gasp in disbelief. In this economy, an investment paying back 5% is pretty attractive! If there's some broader reason for that, I'd be willing to listen...

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## Zuplar

Wealth distribution always benefits those at the bottom, yet they tend to be the ones that complain. Taxes in Cleveland county seem to be ridiculous anyways. I can't believe that my property taxes are double what my homeowners insurance is, and I live in a decent size newer home. I was hoping new retail development and the new schools closer would help improve my property value, but the catch to that is that I'd have to pay higher taxes. Luckily the only saving grace is I got a good deal on it to begin with.

And sign me up a 5% return on my money. Six years ago it was pretty common, anymore it seems to be a pipe dream.

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## bille

> I was curious, does anyone know where MPS will be buying land for future schools? I've never seen any areas in which they were looking, although I know it's been mentioned they wanted to acquire some. I think it's smart planning as the Southwest area continues to develop land is only going to become less available and more expensive.


I can't say for the junior high but the elementary school will be located at SE34th and Sunnylane.  The land hasn't been purchased yet to my understanding but dirt work began on that area (to build up the pad) probably a year ago.  The initial dirt work has been done for quite some time now.  My understanding is due to it being a two story school and the fact that it is in a flood zone a lot of build up was necessary.  I can't speak for sure as I have no knowledge in that field, all I know is  they added A LOT of dirt and built the majority of that corner up several feet.  If you've driven by that corner you can't miss it.

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## Roger S

> There's also a separate argument that it forces people with no kids to pay into a system from which they derive no direct benefit, but that's obviously offset by the counterargument that everyone benefits from an educated populace.


That's the category I fall in and I don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth from the educated populace.

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## Zuplar

> I can't say for the junior high but the elementary school will be located at SE34th and Sunnylane.  The land hasn't been purchased yet to my understanding but dirt work began on that area (to build up the pad) probably a year ago.  The initial dirt work has been done for quite some time now.  My understanding is due to it being a two story school and the fact that it is in a flood zone a lot of build up was necessary.  I can't speak for sure as I have no knowledge in that field, all I know is  they added A LOT of dirt and built the majority of that corner up several feet.  If you've driven by that corner you can't miss it.


I actually live on the West side of Will Rogers, so I'm almost never on that side of town. I know the other elementary is going to be off of Portland (will be the closest school to me), and the Junior High off of Penn (which will also be the closest Junior High), but I was actually curious about the land for future schools that was referenced.

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## SoonerDave

> I actually live on the West side of Will Rogers, so I'm almost never on that side of town. I know the other elementary is going to be off of Portland (will be the closest school to me), and the Junior High off of Penn (which will also be the closest Junior High), but I was actually curious about the land for future schools that was referenced.


Don't now about the rest, but my understanding is that the land for the Portland elementary has been owned by the district for years. In fact, there used to be a sign in front of the property eons ago that said "FUTURE HOME - New Moore Elementary School." In fact, I think building that location was deferred a few years ago because of Bonds on May, but I won't swear to that.

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## Zuplar

Interesting. I wonder if they are going to start work on that school sooner rather than later then.

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## Zuplar

Anyone know any updates on these schools? I've been curious since the loss of the other 2 elementary. My neighbor is a teacher in Moore and said she was told they would continue to build the new schools, but I haven't seen any kind of dirt work off of Portland for the school.

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## SOONER8693

> Anyone know any updates on these schools? I've been curious since the loss of the other 2 elementary. My neighbor is a teacher in Moore and said she was told they would continue to build the new schools, but I haven't seen any kind of dirt work off of Portland for the school.


Dirt work is underway at SW 164th and Penn for the new Jr. High.

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## kevinpate

A growing community, loss of two elementary schools ... I do not envy their school board the headaches they face.

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## Zuplar

> Dirt work is underway at SW 164th and Penn for the new Jr. High.


Wow didn't realize that it was going to be so far south. The elementary is going to be off of Portland I know, but is it between 119th and 134th? or further south?

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## adaniel

> A growing community, loss of two elementary schools ... I do not envy their school board the headaches they face.


Just curious...would they not have insurance on those schools? 

No doubt its going to be a pain in the short term

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## SOONER8693

> Wow didn't realize that it was going to be so far south. The elementary is going to be off of Portland I know, but is it between 119th and 134th? or further south?


I believe you are correct. Brad Fernberg, asst Supt, gave a presentation to our faculty back before the bond election, and I seem to recall that is what he said.

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## mike1k

The middle school will be built at 14141 S. Pennsylvania...it's on moore schools webpage under 2013 bond info.

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## mike1k

The new elementary school will be at 12627 S. Portland Ave

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## SOONER8693

> The middle school will be built at 14141 S. Pennsylvania...it's on moore schools webpage under 2013 bond info.


You are right, it does say that. But, when this first came up, a couple of years ago, it was announced to be at 164th and Penn. There currently is a tremendous amount of dirt work and land prep going on at 164th and Penn. You could be right and I'm wrong. I don't know for sure. The location cited on the web site makes more sense, however, it is not a very large partial of land.

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## euphjay

That dirt work going on at SW 164th and Penn is for a new Ideal Homes community.

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## Zuplar

> Just curious...would they not have insurance on those schools? 
> 
> No doubt its going to be a pain in the short term


I read something in the paper that said Insurance was covering everything. It's just a lot going on. Moore was already building 3 new schools, now they have to build an additional 2, repair another and from what I've heard the admin building is going to need major repair or replaced.

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## SOONER8693

> That dirt work going on at SW 164th and Penn is for a new Ideal Homes community.


I stand corrected. Thank you.

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## SOONER8693

> I read something in the paper that said Insurance was covering everything. It's just a lot going on. Moore was already building 3 new schools, now they have to build an additional 2, repair another and from what I've heard the admin building is going to need major repair or replaced.


Those buildings were insured. FEMA will also be involved to some degree with the rebuilding of those, after the red tape is dealt with, and it is substantial, the red tape. Moore schools have been and are still being bombarded with donations of all kinds. Financial, gifts, building basketball courts at the affected sites, on and on.

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## kevinpate

Yeah, I wasn't even lamenting any financial considerations. But when you're a growing community and needing more school space, then lose two schools, and classes are kicking back up under 100 days away, .. even assuming safely cleared sites and bringing in a passle of used modular classrooms, there are still the basics of addressing chow, indoor and outdoor play, potties and admin spaces on top of instruction space reassembled, set in place properly and powered up with HC access, and doing it many times over per site.  It's a full out blitz to set up two complete schools, or shuffle folk around into every available nook and cranny at other schools.

As I said, I do not envy them this summer.

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## Mustangking1

Anyone know if they are still going ahead with the new buildings in the bond issue or are they on hold?

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## Zuplar

It's bond money. They will have to spend it.

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## MWCGuy

The bond issue items will likely go on as planned. The buildings damaged in the Tornado will likely be rebuilt with insurance, state and federal funds. For the time being the students will be housed at Central Junior High and a local church. The schools should be open around or about the start of the 2014-2015 school year.

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## Zuplar

I still haven't seen much on the progress of the new schools. My guess is they really haven't started on them. I understand there has been a lot going on, but I feel as though our tax money should be going where we voted for it too.

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## SoonerDave

At a district-wide meeting today, it was announced that the two new schools are being postponed while both Plaza Towers and Briarwood Elementary are being rebuilt. It was felt that having four large constructions projects going on at the same time (the two rebuilds plus the two new schools) was not a smart or practical move for the district. Mind you, the monies already earmarked for the new schools in the bond issue remain so earmarked - the projects are just being delayed. The replacements for the destroyed schools are being funded through insurance proceeds.

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## Zuplar

> At a district-wide meeting today, it was announced that the two new schools are being postponed while both Plaza Towers and Briarwood Elementary are being rebuilt. It was felt that having four large constructions projects going on at the same time (the two rebuilds plus the two new schools) was not a smart or practical move for the district. Mind you, the monies already earmarked for the new schools in the bond issue remain so earmarked - the projects are just being delayed. The replacements for the destroyed schools are being funded through insurance proceeds.


This is what I was afraid of. So now we pay higher taxes for something that is delayed. I'd like my property taxes to remain the same until they decide they'd like to start building.

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## SoonerDave

> This is what I was afraid of. So now we pay higher taxes for something that is delayed. I'd like my property *insurance* to remain the same until they decide they'd like to start building.


You mean _taxes,_ don't you?

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## Zuplar

> You mean _taxes,_ don't you?


Yes, wow, lol, bad typo.

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## MWCGuy

I graduated from Westmoore in 1995. The Moore District have always been good stewards with tax dollars and it appears they made the right decision. Building too many schools at once can result in quality control issues that are not usually found out about until the school has been open for a year or more. 

I have yet to see a bond issue fail in Moore because they spend their money exactly as promised. If the project or expenditure comes in cheaper than what they anticipate they put the funding in trust for other school needs. 

The blessing in disguise in all this is kids at Plaza Towers and Briarwood will get new state of the art schools instead of aging schools that were built to the needs of the district in the 70's and 80's.

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## Easy180

> This is what I was afraid of. So now we pay higher taxes for something that is delayed. I'd like my property taxes to remain the same until they decide they'd like to start building.


I agree...How convenient for them to use the F-5 that wiped out a huge chunk of our city, killing children in its path as cover for delaying construction of the new schools

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## Zuplar

> I agree...How convenient for them to use the F-5 that wiped out a huge chunk of our city, killing children in its path as cover for delaying construction of the new schools


There was really zero need to come in here and pull that card. Never was it stated that it was a poor excuse, simply wishing that tax increases could be delayed as well so as to make sure the bond gets used as it intended. I'd hate to see the district sacrifice anything.

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## Zuplar

> I graduated from Westmoore in 1995. The Moore District have always been good stewards with tax dollars and it appears they made the right decision. Building too many schools at once can result in quality control issues that are not usually found out about until the school has been open for a year or more. 
> 
> I have yet to see a bond issue fail in Moore because they spend their money exactly as promised. If the project or expenditure comes in cheaper than what they anticipate they put the funding in trust for other school needs. 
> 
> The blessing in disguise in all this is kids at Plaza Towers and Briarwood will get new state of the art schools instead of aging schools that were built to the needs of the district in the 70's and 80's.


This is good to know, and I agree with your last comment. It's unfortunate the life loss, but the silver lining if you can look at it that way is that all facilities being rebuilt will be top of the line and safer for the incoming children. There has been so much donated that I anticipate that the district will take advantage of this and use the money to better the district.

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## Easy180

> There was really zero need to come in here and pull that card. Never was it stated that it was a poor excuse, simply wishing that tax increases could be delayed as well so as to make sure the bond gets used as it intended. I'd hate to see the district sacrifice anything.


Sorry your post came across as a little ridiculous given the circumstances...No need to worry as there is zero chance the city will divert funds from schools...zero

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## Zuplar

> Sorry your post came across as a little ridiculous given the circumstances...No need to worry as there is zero chance the city will divert funds from schools...zero


I'm not wanting it diverted, would just like to see the tax increase delayed until they actually decide to start on the schools.

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## Zuplar

Glad to finally see something about this. I guess they didn't end up getting delayed like someone had said.

News | Moore Monthly

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## Zuplar

Elementary on Sunnylane to be called Timbercreek Elementary and the one on S Portland to be called Soutlake Elementary. I haven't seen anything on what the districts will be for these schools, but I'm sure those will be established at a later time.

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## Zuplar

Just curious if anyone has seen anything on the boundaries. I saw on the agenda that was to be talked about at the last meeting, so was curious if anyone had some insider info. I'm sure it will be out there once they release the minutes.

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## soonervegas

> Just curious if anyone has seen anything on the boundaries. I saw on the agenda that was to be talked about at the last meeting, so was curious if anyone had some insider info. I'm sure it will be out there once they release the minutes.


Would really like to know this too.....I am being told through the grapevine my child will be going to Southlake, but I would like to see it on paper or offically announced.

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## Zuplar

> Would really like to know this too.....I am being told through the grapevine my child will be going to Southlake, but I would like to see it on paper or offically announced.


Just curious if you don't mind sharing, what area do you live in? My though was that it is going to be the area West of I44 as that is the closest area, which also would be the area I live in.

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## soonervegas

> Just curious if you don't mind sharing, what area do you live in? My though was that it is going to be the area West of I44 as that is the closest area, which also would be the area I live in.


I live over by SW 104th and Council.  So West of I44 is what I am hearing as well.....

I would say my source is decent.  Now that I have said that it will be the exact opposite of what I was told!

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## Zuplar

> I live over by SW 104th and Council.  So West of I44 is what I am hearing as well.....
> 
> I would say my source is decent.  Now that I have said that it will be the exact opposite of what I was told!


Lol that's exactly where I live.

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## Zuplar

Just checked Moore Schools site and they posted the minutes from the last meeting. They have the new boundaries in there at the bottom. Here is the link for any one interested.

School Board / Minutes

So looks like those of us that live west of I44 pretty much to Mustang will be in the new South Lakes boundaries. Looks like for me I'm left in Brink JRH which I find odd as the new JRH will be closer. Also looks like they gave some more of Southmoore's district to Westmoore, most notably neighborhoods like Williamson Farms. Kind of interesting not sure why they did this.

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## SoonerDave

> Just checked Moore Schools site and they posted the minutes from the last meeting. They have the new boundaries in there at the bottom. Here is the link for any one interested.
> 
> School Board / Minutes
> 
> So looks like those of us that live west of I44 pretty much to Mustang will be in the new South Lakes boundaries. Looks like for me I'm left in Brink JRH which I find odd as the new JRH will be closer. Also looks like they gave some more of Southmoore's district to Westmoore, most notably neighborhoods like Williamson Farms. Kind of interesting not sure why they did this.


Looks to me like they tried really hard to create the "bright line" of demarcation between Southmoore and Westmoore to be SW 134th. Won't swear to this, but I think a lot of the high school districts have had strange, jagged boundaries until now - and some of this may also have been driven by the overhaul of the bus routes that I think some third-party transportation company was brought in to analyze.

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## Zuplar

> Looks to me like they tried really hard to create the "bright line" of demarcation between Southmoore and Westmoore to be SW 134th. Won't swear to this, but I think a lot of the high school districts have had strange, jagged boundaries until now - and some of this may also have been driven by the overhaul of the bus routes that I think some third-party transportation company was brought in to analyze.


If so that's great. Yes I agree looks like SW134th is a more defining line now. Still, school districts aren't as efficient as they could be. Because of more kids riding the bus out by me the Mustang and Moore school buses pass one another now. Mustangs buses have to loop county line to 119th back to council then down 104th. Moore has to do the exact opposite. If they'd just give the half mile section to one school or the other, preferably Mustang since all of their schools are half the distance, neither would have to overlap an entire mile section.

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## Zuplar

Something else I'm curious, did Moore change their district? I thought the district went into Oklahoma county to 82nd street? The revised shows it only goes to 89th.

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## soonervegas

> Something else I'm curious, did Moore change their district? I thought the district went into Oklahoma county to 82nd street? The revised shows it only goes to 89th.


Looks like they pulled the board minutes....I am wondering if they are doing some slight adjusting?

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## Zuplar

Interesting they were there as of yesterday. I still have a copy of them saved on my computer so we can compare differences once they go back up.

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## SoonerDave

> Something else I'm curious, did Moore change their district? I thought the district went into Oklahoma county to 82nd street? The revised shows it only goes to 89th.


Still goes north into 82nd. Been that way for four billion years.   :Smile:

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## Zuplar

> Still goes north into 82nd. Been that way for four billion years.


Well I wonder if they just made a mistake on their maps and that's the reason why they took it down.

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## Zuplar

Looks like they minutes are back up there and the maps have been created. Interesting how that happened after I mention that.

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## Zuplar

These have better maps.

Maps, Menus, Supplies, Etc. / New Boundaries

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## Zuplar

I drove by South Lakes Elementary a week ago and it has come a long way. Still doesn't look like it's going to be open in time for school starting, but maybe the inside is further along than what the outside looks like.

On a side note OKC repaved the majority of Portland there between 119th and 134th, which is good because that road was unusually terrible for the area.

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## Zuplar

I noticed in the recent school board minutes the board voted for something to do with a bond for 2015. Not sure if this has to do with the one passed, because I know they haven't completed all work, or if this is a new one. Does anyone have any idea?

2.12.15min.pdf

Agenda_2_12_15F.pdf

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## Robert_M

No inside information but I believe this is still related to the 2013 bond.  The original amount approved was somewhere around 126 million and they are just releasing it over time.  Will probably be a couple more over the next few years.

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## Zuplar

That seems to make sense. I wonder what their next plan is. I know they still need to add some Pre-k's and acquire land for future schools. Moore is real behind in the Pre-k and Kindergarten realm.

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## Zuplar

Looks like next school board should release info for the next bond issue. Still paying on the last one and here they go again wanting to raise taxes again.

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## Robert_M

Not a bond expert again but I don't think they are allowed to have more then one bond issue out at a time.  As this last one was suppose to be a 5 year bond they may be planning for the future or still trying to find projects for the current money they have. Unfortunately they don't have a video up to show the presentation made but July 30th is when they are suppose to do the special meeting.  Concerned citizens can attend to see what they are planning.

Also the usual defense on these bond issues is they say it wont raise your taxes because they usually have the election for new one when the last one is expiring. So while technically true taxes wont go up they would go down if it failed I just don't see voters in the district letting it.

Edit: Never mind just saw this browsing facebook

"Moore Public Schools Ms. Lee, 
You are correct - shelters are a need and that initiative will be on the next bond issue (October). Once passed, we will have one at each site. If you would like additional information feel free to give me a call (735-4249) 
Dr. Romines"

Since this is for saferooms I don't have a doubt this will get passed however they shouldn't ask for as much as they did in 2013 which had an increase of approximately $12.00 per $100,000 value.  Will just have to see what they come up with.

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## Zuplar

My biggest issue is this should have been on the last bond issue. Property taxes in Cleveland county are ridiculous compared to just across the border where I was in Canadian county.

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## Zuplar

Just noticed they posted the agenda for the new bond issue. I worry that many people are going to vote for this because it's going to be toted as providing storm shelters, which sure a small portion of it does. But from what I read a lot of it does what the last one said it was supposed to do, which is BS. What I find most appalling is that they are wanting improvements on some of the brand new schools, schools which don't even open till August. Lol you got to be kidding me. Moore jacked up property taxes last time and clearly didn't get enough money and coming for us again. I really had reservations moving into the Moore school district, really wish I'd have bought something 400 yards to the West to not be in this district. Property taxes are outrageous.

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## SoonerDave

> Just noticed they posted the agenda for the new bond issue. I worry that many people are going to vote for this because it's going to be toted as providing storm shelters, which sure a small portion of it does. But from what I read a lot of it does what the last one said it was supposed to do, which is BS. What I find most appalling is that they are wanting improvements on some of the brand new schools, schools which don't even open till August. Lol you got to be kidding me. Moore jacked up property taxes last time and clearly didn't get enough money and coming for us again. I really had reservations moving into the Moore school district, really wish I'd have bought something 400 yards to the West to not be in this district. *Property taxes are outrageous*.


Yeah, as many reasons as there are to love where I live, the property taxes are absolutely NOT among them. Lots of folks who move into the area and don't closely read their real estate disclosures get a brickbat across the face when their first property tax bill comes. 

And if you're lucky enough to live in that "taxing netherworld" around or just south of the OK/Cleveland County line (89th street), you may find yourself in that fun region where you get essentially a double-whammy of taxation from two different authorities. It's absolutely ludicrous to compare a property tax bill for me in relation to a house that might be barely a mile north, even adjusted for size/age.

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## Zuplar

> Yeah, as many reasons as there are to love where I live, the property taxes are absolutely NOT among them. Lots of folks who move into the area and don't closely read their real estate disclosures get a brickbat across the face when their first property tax bill comes. 
> 
> And if you're lucky enough to live in that "taxing netherworld" around or just south of the OK/Cleveland County line (89th street), you may find yourself in that fun region where you get essentially a double-whammy of taxation from two different authorities. It's absolutely ludicrous to compare a property tax bill for me in relation to a house that might be barely a mile north, even adjusted for size/age.


Right. Yeah I live west of the airport and if I was in Canadian county my bill would probably be $1000 cheaper.

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## Easy180

With two kids just entering the Moore school system there will be two yes votes from the Easy household

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## Zuplar

> With two kids just entering the Moore school system there will be two yes votes from the Easy household


Boo.

I would understand if it was a needed bond issue. But the fact they want improvements on buildings that haven't been used, schools less that 2 years old, transportation (which mind you was a decent portion of the bond issue in 2013), technology (also a large portion of 2013), is unsettling and seems a bit unethical to me. I voted yes on the last one, cause it seemed like what they are asking for was needed. But at this rate they'll be asking for all this again in 2017. It seems like the school district really knows how to blow money and I don't really have a lot of faith in the leadership or board.

edit.

Now if this was a significantly smaller bond just to place storm shelters at every school that didn't have one, I'd be all for it. But the fact is they are advertising it, at least thus far, as being primarily for shelters, when in fact its like a $204 million (if I remember correctly) bond that has more to do with the everything else than shelters. Just seems really shady and I'm so surprised people are willing to blindly vote yes because 'it's for the kids come on.'

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## Zuplar

I noticed that the school updated their agenda today and looks like the removed all of the wording about the bond specifics. But I had already looked at it and have a copy, so for those interested, here it is:

Agenda_Sp_BOE_7-30-15.pdf

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## Zuplar

The Moore Monthly has an article about the new bond issue. Just as I thought they advertise it as storm shelters. As they spell out the storm shelter portion only amounts to a little over half, I think $115 million. I'll give them credit they do talk about the other portions of the bond issue, but I imagine most people are going to say storm shelters, I vote yes, without looking at it. I really hope it gets divided up. I absolutely would vote for the storm shelters, it's asinine with Moore's history these weren't built in like so many other OKC metro schools have done. But if it's an all or nothing deal I will definitely be voting no.

ISSUU - Moore Monthly - Aug 15 by Moore Monthly

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## SoonerDave

Zup, I think you've got some valid points...I see funds for the relatively new Wayland Bonds and Bryant elementary schools, but I don't see anything for the repair or update for schools like Southgate, although I suspect its damage may be covered by insurance (?). 

Don't honestly see any way these don't pass, however. The storm shelter portion will simply be too compelling to veto.

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## Zuplar

> Zup, I think you've got some valid points...I see funds for the relatively new Wayland Bonds and Bryant elementary schools, but I don't see anything for the repair or update for schools like Southgate, although I suspect its damage may be covered by insurance (?). 
> 
> Don't honestly see any way these don't pass, however. The storm shelter portion will simply be too compelling to veto.


Yes, in the article it talks about Southgate and that everything is getting done with insurance etc.

I agree with your last point, and for me it's the principal of it. Moore isn't the only district to do what I would consider somewhat unethical things like packaging things the schools need with things the school wants. It compels people to say well if I vote against it I seem like a bad person cause I don't want the kids to be safe. It's a catch 22. FWIW if we weren't still paying on the last bond issue I'd be a lot more inclined to vote yes either way, but like I've said before my property taxes are already ridiculously high. I think I pay $1000 more than my parents who live 4 miles west of me, and their house is valued about $150,000 more than mine and it's not like Moore Schools are any better than Mustang's.

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## SoonerDave

> Yes, in the article it talks about Southgate and that everything is getting done with insurance etc.
> 
> I agree with your last point, and for me it's the principal of it. Moore isn't the only district to do what I would consider somewhat unethical things like packaging things the schools need with things the school wants. It compels people to say well if I vote against it I seem like a bad person cause I don't want the kids to be safe. It's a catch 22. FWIW if we weren't still paying on the last bond issue I'd be a lot more inclined to vote yes either way, but like I've said before my property taxes are already ridiculously high. I think I pay $1000 more than my parents who live 4 miles west of me, and their house is valued about $150,000 more than mine and it's not like Moore Schools are any better than Mustang's.


Well, FWIW, Moore's schools are about triple the enrollment of Mustang, and they have a lot more infrastructure to maintain as their schools cover a fairly large chunk of SW OKC all the way down into south Moore/north Norman at the extremes. I won't say that entirely justifies the property tax disparity, but there are some valid practical differences.

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## Zuplar

> Well, FWIW, Moore's schools are about triple the enrollment of Mustang, and they have a lot more infrastructure to maintain as their schools cover a fairly large chunk of SW OKC all the way down into south Moore/north Norman at the extremes. I won't say that entirely justifies the property tax disparity, but there are some valid practical differences.


Yeah I get it's a fairly sizable district, but Mustang has one of the larger ones as well as one of the largest single High Schools in the state. They almost always have a bond issue or 2 going, I think they may have 2 going now, and still it's a sizable difference in price. What I don't understand is that Canadian Valley Tech I think is quite a bit bigger than the Norman one so I'd think that would add more to people living in their area. I'd be curious to see a breakdown, maybe there is something else driving up my taxes.

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## KL_Moore

I agree that some of the recent and proposed bond projects have been more "want" items than some others which would be more of a priority IMO.

For example the five pre-existing junior highs are still under their collective building capacity for all of 7th and 8th grades (and have been ever since the 9th grade classes were moved to the high schools when Southmoore opened). Yet the district decided to build a sixth one (Southridge) for what I believe the primary reason is to give each high school exactly two feeder junior highs and not split-feed a junior high into multiple high schools. Yes, Brink was approaching (or perhaps above) its building capacity, but I believe that redistricting some of the Brink area into Moore West and/or Highland West (both below capacity) would've solved the problem without a new school (at least for another few years) - and if push comes to shove some of the Highland West area could be moved to Central like it was before Southmoore opened (although that would create another split-feed junior high); as demonstrated by using one of the CJH buildings for Plaza Towers classes after the 2013 tornado, Central Junior High is at only about 2/3 to 3/4 of its capacity. (Besides Brink the only other junior high that was close to its capacity was Highland East, and some of its area was moved to Central in the 2014 redistricting.) Now if the plan was to move 9th graders back down to the junior highs to create more space at the high schools, or go to a middle school system and move 6th graders up (also creating more space for Pre-K and full-day kindergarten classes), then building a sixth junior high would've been a good use of the money. However, building a whole new school for the sake of better activity coordination and/or not splitting student groups up is a second-tier priority IMO. Now that the junior highs that don't already have safe rooms (Central with the new shared-with-Central-Elementary shelter and Highland East) will get an addition if the bond passes that means an even bigger surplus of junior high building space. The two elementary schools built with the last bond issue are perfectly acceptable - with the building going on in those parts of the district they'd be needed if not now pretty soon.

Back to the subject of expanding early childhood programs - at many of the elementaries I believe that's what the additional classroom space created by the safe rooms will be used for (at a few of the schools it appears to be earmarked for another kind of addition - but still one that would be utilized in the immediate future). However like what was said there are a lot of "luxury" items on the ballot - like extra gyms - too (going back to the last few bond issues the district felt that each high school needed three gyms when having a "large" and a "small" one each worked fine for many years, although Westmoore did deserve a new one with more seating - if space for athletic practices is a concern every elementary now has a gym* in addition to the junior high gyms). *I supported the elementary gyms though because I remember what it was like to have P.E. in the cafeteria, classroom, or hallway in inclement weather before they were built in the early 2000s.

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## Zuplar

Lots of good info there, but you bring up another one of my gripe, the district doesn't even have all day kindergarten. What a joke. If I were to have a kid old enough to enroll, I'm pretty sure the elementary for my house doesn't have all day kindergarten. Which is ridiculous, because I guarantee I pay more property taxes than a lot of the people who's school does offer full day. What an absolute joke. Now granted most districts around the city don't have Pre-K for everyone, so I'll give Moore a pass on that one. I know this much, if there isn't all day kindergarten at all schools by the time I have a kid old enough, I will be doing everything in my power to get my kid transferred to Mustang or Yukon, even if that means I have to move to do it.

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## SoonerDave

> For example the five pre-existing junior highs are still under their collective building capacity for all of 7th and 8th grades (and have been ever since the 9th grade classes were moved to the high schools when Southmoore opened). Yet the district decided to build a sixth one (Southridge) for what I believe the primary reason is to give each high school exactly two feeder junior highs and not split-feed a junior high into multiple high schools.


Organizationally I believe you're spot-on as far as feeder schools go, but there was a practical side, too. I think Moore's district leaders/planners knew that their current junior high capacity wasn't sufficient to cover the eventual seventh and eighth-graders that would emerge from the large elementary number increase Moore saw over the last few years, so they had to plan (well) in advance for it to come. I think the last year or two is the first one in a while where the overall elementary enrollment is either flat or only slightly higher than last year. For a lot of years, I think there had been really big growth each year, and it was really putting the pressure on the elementary schools...

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## Zuplar

School site admin is slow, links aren't very good on some of this, and if I wouldn't have googled, not sure how anyone would find this. At the time there really aren't any links to it on their main page, but I'd assume that would change. For those curious:

Bond 2015 / Expect Moore- Bond 2015

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## KL_Moore

From what it looks like the shelters at the junior highs (that don't already have shelters) will take the form of a new full-size air-conditioned gym (and likewise VISTA, the alternative school, will get a safe-room gym) - I originally thought it was going to just be more classrooms (which especially with Southridge in operation there is a surplus at the junior high level). At MHS it appears to be taking the form of new classrooms, and at SHS the form of a lecture center and other athletic facilities (WHS already has a safe room that was built after the school was hit by the 1999 tornado). As of this post the elementary plans haven't been posted.

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## Zuplar

Back to the 2013 Bond issue, I sent the school a tweet asking for updates since it had been a real long time since they had and looks like they updated some of it for those interested what projects have been done from the last bond issue. I think it's relevant to take a look and compare to the one we are going to vote for in October.

Bond 2013 / Thank You!

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## Zuplar

The school posted up an oppurtunity for people to ask questions so I sent them a quick email with some of my concerns about the lack of Pre-K and full day Kindergarten. I wanted to share with everyone what the Superintendent wrote back to me. While I'd have liked for him to outline a plan with to get this resolved sooner, it does seem that this is on their radar which is good. It's also good to note that they took the time to write me back. with that being said here is what he replied with:

_Good Afternoon –

The 2013 bond issue enabled the school district to build and open 3 early childhood facilities (Central Elementary, Earlywine Elementary, and Sky Ranch Elementary).  The one at Central opened August 2015, Earlywine opens August 2016, and Sky Ranch opens August 2017.  Once the three centers are complete, we will still have few sites that will house pre- k programs.  These sites will be selected based on the convenience of our patrons who live on the most east and west sides of our school district.  We review sections and availability each school year – if we need to add additional pre-k sections we do.  As far as all-day kindergarten is concerned – we add each year as classroom space becomes available.  For example, we added 4 all-day programs for the 2015/16 school year.  We will continue to add as long as funding and classroom space is available.  Please let us know if you have additional questions.



Sincerely,



Dr. Romines_

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## Plutonic Panda

News | The Moore Daily

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## Easy180

We have some pretty excited elementary school parents in our neighborhood. Both of ours were in a safe room at daycare when the  2013 tornado hit but we now have one in elementary so we are hopeful that one is in place before May.

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## Zuplar

> We have some pretty excited elementary school parents in our neighborhood. Both of ours were in a safe room at daycare when the  2013 tornado hit but we now have one in elementary so we are hopeful that one is in place before May.


My understanding is they are going to work quickly on the storm shelters and do multiple sites at once. I'm sure that's the priority of the bond issue, or at least I'd hope so.

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## Robert_M

They will have to select architects, have plans drawn, get them approved through the city, put it out to bid for General Contractors, and then have at least a 6 month to 1 year construction time weather and size dependent.  I would say it would probably be unlikely for this coming spring but would possibly be ready for the start of the 2016 - 2017 school year with a rush but could even be Dec. 2016.

We have done some work on some Edmond saferoom / classroom additions and usually for a spring completion time frame the general contractors bid in mid summer.

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## Zuplar

From my understanding the due diligence, contractors, plans and whatnot for multiple sites had already been gone over. Either way it's going to be fairly quick.

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## KL_Moore

Also remember that this bond is being phased over multiple years (so there isn't one big tax-bite), so only those sites whose projects were scheduled for the first go-round (presumably the ones where the additional space is most urgently needed) will see their construction begin right away.

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## Zuplar

Moore schools finally getting with the program and having all-day kindergarten. Very happy about this since I'll have a kid that age in a few years. I had contemplated moving out of the district, but have no issues with staying in now.

http://www.mooreschools.com/Page/39163

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## Nugyar

I was happy to hear that as well since my kiddo will start Kindergarten that year. I just wish they'd get with the program and have full day pre-k also - and do away with the stupid consolidated pre-k "pod" concept they introduced last year. Kids shouldn't have to go to pre-k at a school that isn't even their home school. I'm probably going to have to pay another year of private school costs just so she can have more than 2 1/2 hours of class time a day.  But yeah, at least kindergarten will be full day.   From my understanding Newcastle does full day pre-k and they take out of district transfers if you're willing to drive 'em down there. :-/

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