# OKCpedia > General Real Estate Topics >  Vacant & Abandoned Buildings

## Plutonic Panda

The city is apparently beginning to address the problem according to a recent article.




> City seeks to strengthen efforts to address vacant and abandoned buildings
> (July 2, 2013) - Oklahoma City Council today directed staff to act on study recommendations that address the Citys growing vacant and abandoned building problem.  The study revealed that there are 12,000 vacant and abandoned buildings scattered throughout the City. 
> 
> According to the Census Bureau, the number of long-term vacant housing units in the City grew by 25 percent between 2000 and 2010, twice the rate of the normal housing growth.
> 
> Vacant and abandoned homes cause a variety of problems for both residents and the City, Planning Director Russell Claus said.  These neglected buildings strain the Citys resources, lower property values, hamper community reinvestment and infringe on neighboring property owners rights. 
> 
> According to the study, vacant and abandoned buildings can reduce the value of neighboring homes by 12 to 29 percent, resulting in an estimated $2.7 billion reduction in real estate value city-wide. They generate little revenue from property or sales tax, while requiring disproportionate City services through police, fire, animal welfare and code enforcement. 
> 
> ...


City of Oklahoma City | News from OKCGOV

https://www.facebook.com/cityofokc/p...51482799897312

Here is the .pdf document for view:https://www.okc.gov/documents/Vacant...me%20Study.pdf

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## Pete

According to a recent study, there are more than 12,000 vacant and abandoned buildings scattered through the city. Now, the state's largest city will start tackling that problem.

In a city council session Tuesday, the council directed staff members to act on study recommendations that address the growing problem of vacant and abandoned buildings. According to the Census Bureau, from 2000 to 2010, the number of long-term vacant housing units grew by 25%. That rate is twice as high as the normal housing growth.


The empty buildings generate little revenue from property or sales tax, while requiring an increase of city services through police, fire, animal welfare and code enforcement. According to Planning Director Russell Clau, that costs the city roughly $6.5 million a year to respond to extra police and fire calls in those buildings.

Not only are vacant houses a drain on the city, they're a drain on the neighborhood. The study says vacant and abandoned buildings can reduce the value of neighboring homes by 12 to 29%, causing about $2.7 billion reduction in real estate value across the city.

The study recommends the city implement a program that includes enforcement measures, penalties, and rewards, which require changes to state laws to allow the city impose liens on problem properties and return the properties to productive use.


Link to Full Study


STUDY FINDINGS 
Over the past decade the number of long-term vacant housing units in Oklahoma City has increased by roughly 
25 percent. The primary cause is low property carrying costs, meaning that vacant buildings cost so little to 
own that owners prefer to keep them vacant rather than putting them into productive use. 
While the cost to VAB owners is low, the cost of VABs to the City, affected neighborhoods and owners of 
occupied properties is substantial. VABs generate little or no revenue from property or sales tax, while they 
utilize disproportionate public safety and other city services, lower neighboring property values, discourage 
private investment, and contribute to neighborhood decline.

The Problem Quantified
  An estimated 12,000 buildings in Oklahoma City have been vacant six months or longer. 
 More than half of these have been vacant two years or longer.
 The City spends approximately $6.5 million annually for services (police, fire, and animal welfare) 
 attributable to VABs.
 The City loses nearly $20 million in potential revenue every year because of VABs.
 VABs reduce the value of neighboring homes by 12 to 29 percent, depending on proximity, resulting in an
 estimated $2.7 billion reduction in real estate value city-wide.

The Problem Qualified
  There are few incentives or disincentives to encourage VAB owners to maintain or reinvest in their
 properties. 
  Reinvestment in neighborhoods decreases as the number of VABs increases. 
  VABs are undesirable and unwanted neighbors. They decrease the marketability and value of commercial
 and residential properties. Residents living near VABs feel less safe and less secure. 
  The cost to maintain, service, and secure VABs is subsidized by owners of occupied properties. 

The Response
A comprehensive program that includes a combination of enforcement measures, penalties, and rewards is 
recommended to address the problem. The program should be designed to incentivize reuse and rehabilitation 
of properties and to uphold the property rights of all owners, including restoring the property rights of owners 
near VABs. 



THE PROGRAM
The study recommends a three-phased approach to implementing a fully operational program. Phase one can 
be initiated immediately with City Council authorization. Additional legal authority is required to implement 
phases two and three:

1. Vacant Building Registry (VBR): During this phase a database of VABs will be established; data and start-up
 equipment purchased; and staff hired to identify, inspect and manage VAB cases. The VBR will allow
 the City to target enforcement by address/owner and to monitor impact on adjacent properties and affected
 neighborhoods. A per-building fee structure will be implemented to cover administrative costs of the
 program.

 2. Cost recovery fees: The VABs program assesses a cost recovery fee on VABs to offset the cost of City
 services attributable to VABs. This second phase fee assessment should be further supported by fines for
 unpaid administrative and cost recovery fees. Additional statutory authority (changes to state law) will be
 required to institute this phase, as well as to impose liens on VABs for the value of unpaid fees and fines. 
 The phase two fee structure will be based on 100% cost recovery. Revenue will ensure a self-sufficient
 program; surplus may be invested in phase three revitalization efforts and/or public safety and other related
 city services. 

 3. Land Bank: Phase 3 enables the City to fully mitigate VAB issues. This phase also requires changes to state
 statute, to provide the City with the legal authority to foreclose on VAB liens and establish a process for the
 acquisition, maintenance, and redevelopment of VABs for private sector use. To make the land bank and
 overall VABs program more effective, the City should consider utilizing incentives such as tax abatement or
 fee reductions for VAB owners who reinvest in their properties or transfer ownership of their property to the
 land bank.

 Once fully operational, the VABs program will provide a long-term solution for reducing and preventing
 vacancy, increasing property values, and revitalizing Oklahoma City neighborhoods.

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## Pete

Thought this was very interesting a good summary of the nature of the problem:




> CAUSES
> Vacant and abandoned buildings are not unique to Oklahoma City. However, the causes in Oklahoma City are not 
> related to a poor economy. In fact, the economy of Oklahoma City and the State of Oklahoma was healthier than 
> the country as a whole during the recession.
> 
> *An imbalance between the costs of holding a vacant building versus the market-based benefit to investing in the 
> unit is the primary cause of the growing VABs problem in Oklahoma City. There is currently a “reverse rewards” 
> situation for property owners – the longer the vacancy the less it costs to keep the building vacant.*

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## Pete

INCENTIVES
The following incentives may be appropriate during each of the three phases of program implementation:

 • Reduced fees for initial voluntary compliance with the VBR program.
 • Waived or reduced fees for owners who voluntarily transfer ownership of their property to a City-approved 
 redeveloper or the land bank.
 • City or leveraged private/public funds in the form of grants or loans to assist with VAB housing redevelopment
 and occupancy to address:
 - Title clearance,
 - Faade improvement or emergency repair,
 - Full scale rehabilitation or reconstruction, and
 - Down payment and closing cost assistance for homebuyers of VAB properties.
 • Tax incentives or certain economic benefits directly provided to owners or investors of VAB properties in
 specific City-designated revitalization areas.

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## UnFrSaKn

I found this one yesterday along with the really beautiful red brick one next door that is an attorney's office. Know anything about it? I took a few photos I can post once they are edited. This is right next to Central High School. I wish we could see more new development in Bricktown that shares the same style and fill all the empty lots.

Map

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## warreng88

Here is the county assessor page for the property. Looks like it has been owned by Mid Continent since 1991.

Leonard Sullivan Oklahoma County Assessor Real Property Detail Sheet

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## Pete

That's the old Merkel X-Ray building at 229 NW 9th, now for sale for $775,000 (which seems extremely high):

LoopNet - 229 9th, Office Building, 229 NW 9th St., Oklahoma City, OK

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## warreng88

> That's the old Merkel X-Ray building at 229 NW 9th, now for sale for $775,000 (which seems extremely high):
> 
> LoopNet - 229 9th, Office Building, 229 NW 9th St., Oklahoma City, OK


Yeah, especially with as much work as there needs to be done with it.

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## UnFrSaKn

Abandoned building on NE 2nd St & N Lindsay Ave (March 27 2012) - a set on Flickr

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## Pete

And this is the crux of the problem...

Property owners sit on buildings and either do nothing with them, or try to sell them for absurd prices (that Merkel building is probably only worth about a third of what they are asking).

In the meantime, these buildings are left in a state of disrepair and there aren't financial incentives/penalties to do anything at all.


We really need to implement this program and start forcing change.

Imagine all those abandoned properties sold for reasonable prices to people who actually want to do something with them.  Would be a huge game-changer.

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## Mr. Cotter

> I found this one yesterday along with the really beautiful red brick one next door that is an attorney's office. Know anything about it? I took a few photos I can post once they are edited. This is right next to Central High School. I wish we could see more new development in Bricktown that shares the same style and fill all the empty lots.
> 
> Map


Merkel X-Ray Co. Building: The Mullet of Midtown | Midtowner

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## AP

> That's the old Merkel X-Ray building at 229 NW 9th, now for sale for $775,000 (which seems extremely high):
> 
> LoopNet - 229 9th, Office Building, 229 NW 9th St., Oklahoma City, OK


A local midtown blogger, OKCMidtowner, okcmidtowner.com, refers to that building as the Mullet of Midtown.

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## AP

Never mind. Mr. Cotter beat me to it.

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## Larry OKC

One article I read a couple of years ago(?) said that part of the problem is absentee, out of state landlords. That it just wsn't worth the trouble for the City to try to enforce anything against them and as a result, only targeted local owners. Seems that would just encourage more bad out of state owners since they don't have to worry.

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## UnFrSaKn



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## Pete

> One article I read a couple of years ago(?) said that part of the problem is absentee, out of state landlords. That it just wsn't worth the trouble for the City to try to enforce anything against them and as a result, only targeted local owners. Seems that would just encourage more bad out of state owners since they don't have to worry.


Where the owner lives shouldn't matter.

The property is still subject to code compliance and the owner has to make things right or be fined, or the City may even do some of the work themselves (like chop down weeds) then bill them.  If they don't pay, a lien is put on the property.

Ultimately, if they don't pay the fines and taxes, the city/county can force a sale and then recover their money.


The problem is that none of this has been even remotely enforced.  Hopefully that will soon change.

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## UnFrSaKn

Jewel Theatre (March 10 2012) - a set on Flickr

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## CuatrodeMayo

Maybe an urban homesteading program for residential properties similar to what Buffalo is doing?  Urban Homestead Program - City of Buffalo

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## PhiAlpha

Pete, you think we could add a "Vacant and Abandoned Buildings" Summary to the summary page? It would be cool to have something similar to what you set up for deep deuce. I would do it, but don't have anything to add.

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## Pete

> Pete, you think we could add a "Vacant and Abandoned Buildings" Summary to the summary page? It would be cool to have something similar to what you set up for deep deuce. I would do it, but don't have anything to add.


Very good idea.

At the very least, we could call attention to some really cool old structures before they get to the point of no return.

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## PhiAlpha

> Very good idea.
> 
> At the very least, we could call attention to some really cool old structures before they get to the point of no return.


Agreed!

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## UnFrSaKn

Morgan Building (March 10 2012) - a set on Flickr









StreetView

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## kevinpate

A while back Tulsa I think took a look at some areas with old long vacant buildings and planned to institute a do something or pay fine, tax rate, etc. If memory serves, Tulsa ended up with some empty lots because owners decided to raze and then sit again rather than just sit.  Possible I am remembering this wrong. It happens sometimes.  too many if you ask my lovely.

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## UnFrSaKn

That reminds me... me and Steve took a tour one day of the area south of the proposed Boulevard area that was south of the old I-40. I really hope these buildings can be used for the new developments instead of laid waste to. 

Abandoned area between old and new Interstate 40 (February 25 2012) - a set on Flickr



StreetView

There are many others in this Set that you can find in the same area on Google Maps.

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## HangryHippo

> A while back Tulsa I think took a look at some areas with old long vacant buildings and planned to institute a do something or pay fine, tax rate, etc. If memory serves, Tulsa ended up with some empty lots because owners decided to raze and then sit again rather than just sit.  Possible I am remembering this wrong. It happens sometimes.  too many if you ask my lovely.


The law of unintended consequences, I suppose.  Doesn't Philadelphia have some sort of tax penalty for vacant land in the core?

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## UnFrSaKn

Abandoned area between old and new Interstate 40 (March 3 2012) - a set on Flickr











StreetView

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## UnFrSaKn

The buildings in the most danger right now are all the above properties and the future Central Park. 

Doug already did a ton of work.

Oklahoma City: Core To Shore Resources

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## UnFrSaKn

International Harvester





StreetView

Who would want to see this go? You can see it in the background in this shot.



Union Station and Little Flower Church are also in the background.

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## UnFrSaKn

If OKCTalk can help rally against crappy development and make a difference, I hope it can do the same for these buildings that can be redeveloped rather than knocked down and trees put in their place. Why not plant trees around it and you already have a building ready for another use.

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## Urbanized

Something that I think could be really helpful in this regard is if there were a resource that could do basic artists' renderings of what a vacant building might look like remodeled. It's my experience that many (if not most) people lack the ability to look at a building and see it in their mind's eye as a finished, renovated product. This is precisely why real estate agents tell clients listing their homes to repaint colored walls white or beige, and to "stage" rooms in homes on the market. The general public just has a difficult time picturing space as something different than it currently is.

I've thought about this for years, and it resurfaced in my mind at the posting of the homes and buildings on NE 3rd, among others. When people see a derelict building that is not only not contributing to the area around it but in fact detracting from it, it becomes very easy for them to begin or join the refrain to demolish. We've seen it on this very board, when a building that was otherwise minding its own business for many years, sitting derelict with no comment from the outside, gets the white hot spotlight and people who might not have even known it existed before start calling for it to be torn down. I believe in many cases this is merely because they can't picture the building being brought back and once again contributing to the neighborhood. They become antagonists, or at the very least apathetic.

When I have attended Main Street and other preservation and urban economic development conferences and meetings, it is always interesting to see the responses of even seasoned preservationists when presentations include "before and after" shots of reclaimed buildings. It is ALWAYS the highlight of these conferences. These people already KNOW what can be done, yet are often flabbergasted by the transformations, with the entire room oohing and ahing.

I think Main Street actually offers a good model for this proposed service. They have a full time preservation architect on staff. Each active local Main Street program gets a set number of "design grants" each year. This is a FREE service. The architect turns out a rendering of what the building might look like renovated, and makes suggestions regarding building/period/neighborhood-appropriate materials, colors and other modifications. Sometimes seeing their building in one of these drawings is all it takes for a reticent owner (who usually never would have hired an architect on their own, or perhaps could not have afforded one) to get excited and jump on the renovation bandwagon. If a building receiving a design grant is renovated within the year, the Main Street program is then awarded ANOTHER design grant for different building.

Personally, I think with technology available today, someone (an architectural student or other trained volunteer, perhaps?) could easily perform this function for an organization seeking to encourage rehabs and discourage needless demolitions downtown- or city-wide.

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## Just the facts

Urbanized, that is a great idea.  I tried doing it for something as simple as pedestrian fences in AA but I can't draw a crooked line.

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## UnFrSaKn

StreetView



StreetView

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## betts

I love that old warehouse and think it could be very cool restored.  It reminds me of an older version of the building the Floataway Cafe is in in Atlanta.

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## bluedogok

> Something that I think could be really helpful in this regard is if there were a resource that could do basic artists' renderings of what a vacant building might look like remodeled. It's my experience that many (if not most) people lack the ability to look at a building and see it in their mind's eye as a finished, renovated product. This is precisely why real estate agents tell clients listing their homes to repaint colored walls white or beige, and to "stage" rooms in homes on the market. The general public just has a difficult time picturing space as something different than it currently is.
> 
> I've thought about this for years, and it resurfaced in my mind at the posting of the homes and buildings on NE 3rd, among others. When people see a derelict building that is not only not contributing to the area around it but in fact detracting from it, it becomes very easy for them to begin or join the refrain to demolish. We've seen it on this very board, when a building that was otherwise minding its own business for many years, sitting derelict with no comment from the outside, gets the white hot spotlight and people who might not have even known it existed before start calling for it to be torn down. I believe in many cases this is merely because they can't picture the building being brought back and once again contributing to the neighborhood. They become antagonists, or at the very least apathetic.


It is amazing how many people holding onto these properties have no vision of the possibilities for their own properties. Driving through a bunch of older small towns between Denver and West Texas many times it amazes me how many buildings are just sitting derelict. The same could be said for many in the cities, some of them were purchased by speculators who can't afford to redo the buildings and were hoping to catch a hot market to flip them but ended up asking too much for them and they have sat vacant ever since.




> When I have attended Main Street and other preservation and urban economic development conferences and meetings, it is always interesting to see the responses of even seasoned preservationists when presentations include "before and after" shots of reclaimed buildings. It is ALWAYS the highlight of these conferences. These people already KNOW what can be done, yet are often flabbergasted by the transformations, with the entire room oohing and ahing.
> 
> I think Main Street actually offers a good model for this proposed service. They have a full time preservation architect on staff. Each active local Main Street program gets a set number of "design grants" each year. This is a FREE service. The architect turns out a rendering of what the building might look like renovated, and makes suggestions regarding building/period/neighborhood-appropriate materials, colors and other modifications. Sometimes seeing their building in one of these drawings is all it takes for a reticent owner (who usually never would have hired an architect on their own, or perhaps could not have afforded one) to get excited and jump on the renovation bandwagon. If a building receiving a design grant is renovated within the year, the Main Street program is then awarded ANOTHER design grant for different building.
> 
> Personally, I think with technology available today, someone (an architectural student or other trained volunteer, perhaps?) could easily perform this function for an organization seeking to encourage rehabs and discourage needless demolitions downtown- or city-wide.


I remember when Ron Frantz started working on the Main Street Program, he used to come into Triangle A&E a lot and I got to know him there.

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## UnFrSaKn



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## UnFrSaKn

Here is the other building next door. I wish new buildings in Bricktown borrowed from this style.

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## Plutonic Panda

> StreetView
> 
> 
> 
> StreetView


That would be cool if they opened up a 24 hour diner there and had a miniature put-put course in that lawn with a patio fronting the street. . .

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## Larry OKC

> 


*Who let the buffalo out???*

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## warreng88

There is a good article in the gazette titles "Pretty Vacant" that I am reading on my iPad, but I can't link to it from my computer. It points out specifically the Walcourt Building on NE 13th and Walnut Avenue.

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## UnFrSaKn

Oklahoma Gazette News: Features: Vacant buildings

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## UnFrSaKn

Forgot this one... If only I was rich...

First Church of Christ, Scientist (July 9 2013) - a set on Flickr

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## UnFrSaKn

I first noticed this one over a year ago but didn't know anything about it. It's down the street from Kamp's on 10th in Midtown. 



Leonard Sullivan Oklahoma County Assessor Real Property Detail Sheet

Map

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## warreng88

> I first noticed this one over a year ago but didn't know anything about it. It's down the street from Kamp's on 10th in Midtown. 
> 
> 
> 
> Leonard Sullivan Oklahoma County Assessor Real Property Detail Sheet
> 
> Map


There was a plan to renovate this and turn it into four apartments if I remember correctly. Not sure who would take it on, but it would be a great gateway into AA/DD coming off 235 south.

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## UnFrSaKn

Maybe with Metropolitan coming in, it will spur development of it. You could make it into just about anything.

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## UnFrSaKn



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## UnFrSaKn

International Harvester



StreetView is actally from last month.

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## UnFrSaKn

Live chat:




> Good Morning, Steve! How will OKC's new vacant and abandoned building policy affect the city's real estate market? For instance, do you see the Walcourt owners finally giving in and selling? What about other vacant and abandoned buildings like the Marion?





> Steve Lackmeyer: Read my story in today's paper about the Marion - it's already about to be renovated and brought back to life. As for the Walcourt, it's going to require a special person to sell a vision to the lady who owns it. The new policy, if it is approved by the city council (it's only been introduced), may have a major impact on the real estate market, but I don't see it being a panacea.


Downtown Oklahoma City survivor getting new lease on life | News OK

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## Pete

This issue comes before City Council next Tuesday:

Battle lines drawn in dispute over vacant buildings ordinance | News OK




> The city has more than 12,000 vacant and abandoned buildings, and a study says they cost taxpayers millions of dollars in lost revenue and excessive demands on services such as fire and police protection.
> 
> The cost to property owners in lost value due to blighted neighborhoods is estimated to be $2.7 billion.
> 
> Owners of blighted properties pay an average of $112.39 annually in property tax, sales tax, franchise fees and other charges. Contrast that to the more than $1,200 paid by owners of occupied homes.
> 
> The city council is considering creation of a vacant buildings registry to track rundown properties and more effectively address code violations.

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## soonerfan_in_okc

burn em all down!

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## DoctorTaco

http://oklahoman.com/okc-council-app...rticle/3910788

This is still embargoed for the moment.





> Oklahoma City will create a registry as a first step toward reducing the negative impact on neighborhoods of thousands of vacant and abandoned buildings.
> 
> ..
> 
> A study found there are more than 12,000 vacant and abandoned buildings in Oklahoma City.
> 
> The study showed those blighted properties cost taxpayers millions of dollars in lost revenue and place excessive demands on services such as fire and police protection.
> 
> 
> ...


Does anyone know what this actually means? Does this thing have teeth or is it just a list? What were the concessions made to property managers?

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## HangryHippo

What do you mean it's still embargoed for the moment?

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## DoctorTaco

> What do you mean it's still embargoed for the moment?


I mean at the moment you can only read it if you are an Oklahoman subscriber. It was not out on newsok.com yet as of my posting the link.

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## ljbab728

Steve's take in his blog.

No More Free Rides for Blighted Properties | News OK

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## UnFrSaKn

No More Public Incentives for Blighted Properties? | News OK

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## progressiveboy

> No More Public Incentives for Blighted Properties? | News OK


 It is about time the city drafted an ordinance concerning blighted properties. OKC has way to many "Slum lords" causing the city to look nasty looking and decreasing property values and tax rolls for the city. Hope this ordinance will be enforceable and have some bite to it. OKC slumlords beware, It is time to clean up the city.

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## BBatesokc

Sorry, didn't read every post, so the answer may be somewhere above. But I just saw a story about this on the news and it sounded like the only penalty is a couple hundred dollar fine for an entire year. Doesn't seem like much incentive to change to me.

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## LakeEffect

> Sorry, didn't read every post, so the answer may be somewhere above. But I just saw a story about this on the news and it sounded like the only penalty is a couple hundred dollar fine for an entire year. Doesn't seem like much incentive to change to me.


This is essentially step one. Next up is trying to get state laws changed to allow more things to be done. One part would be a land-banking system. In our current political climate, I see that being tough to pass, but, if it does, it would be great. Various iterations can happen - I studied this one in grad school: Genesee County Land Bank -

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## BBatesokc

> This is essentially step one. Next up is trying to get state laws changed to allow more things to be done. One part would be a land-banking system. In our current political climate, I see that being tough to pass, but, if it does, it would be great. Various iterations can happen - I studied this one in grad school: Genesee County Land Bank -


Can they not use existing nuisance abatement laws/consequences to give more incentive?

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## LakeEffect

> Can they not use existing nuisance abatement laws/consequences to give more incentive?


Nope. The laws essentially create a set-up where it's better to board up and keep it secured than it is to keep things occupied and in good shape. The Walcourt is a good example (NE 13th & Walnut). Been boarded up for 30 years, and in relatively good shape. Many, many people would love it buy it and re-use it.

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## onthestrip

Its kind of shocking to me that the type of landowner that doesnt care about their property becoming junk would also be the type that turns down money offers to buy them. Why would they hate money so much but love properties in disrepair? Do they all think a Walgreens is going to come make a million dollar offer for their slum house?

Also, what was the reasons opponents didnt like this change from the city?

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## tomokc

I don't understand the purpose of Steve's comparison in his blog of the Hart Building (720 W. Sheridan, Chip Fudge, occupied & thriving) and Sunshine Cleaners (SW/C 1st & Classen, unknown owner, burned & vacant) in the context of this story. I particularly didn't understand his reference to an "incentive" to keeping Sunshine vacant: _"Why should the Sunshine Laundry owners be given the incentive  yes an incentive  to not improve their property?"_

I'm certainly not defending the owners of Sunshine, but what is the issue so long as the building is secure and not a public nuisance?

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## warreng88

> I don't understand the purpose of Steve's comparison in his blog of the Hart Building (720 W. Sheridan, Chip Fudge, occupied & thriving) and Sunshine Cleaners (SW/C 1st & Classen, unknown owner, burned & vacant) in the context of this story. I particularly didn't understand his reference to an "incentive" to keeping Sunshine vacant: _"Why should the Sunshine Laundry owners be given the incentive – yes an incentive – to not improve their property?"_
> 
> *I'm certainly not defending the owners of Sunshine, but what is the issue so long as the building is secure and not a public nuisance?*


It is not secure and it is a public nuissance. From Steve's blog: _The old Sunshine Laundry has been subject to fire and police calls._ 

Now, he is didn't say how many calls had been made, but with no roof on at least half of the structure not to mention the pictures of the interior (see this thread for evidence: Sunshine Cleaners - 1st and Classen Boulevard - OKCTalk) which show traces of squatters and so much damage done it would take a lot of money just to bring it up to code.

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## LakeEffect

> I don't understand the purpose of Steve's comparison in his blog of the Hart Building (720 W. Sheridan, Chip Fudge, occupied & thriving) and Sunshine Cleaners (SW/C 1st & Classen, unknown owner, burned & vacant) in the context of this story. I particularly didn't understand his reference to an "incentive" to keeping Sunshine vacant: _"Why should the Sunshine Laundry owners be given the incentive – yes an incentive – to not improve their property?"_
> 
> I'm certainly not defending the owners of Sunshine, but what is the issue so long as the building is secure and not a public nuisance?


The incentive is basically that you can let your property sit and be judged as "salvage" by the County and pay next-to-nothing in taxes. Start putting money into it, and you'll have to pay more taxes (but your value/income should go up too).

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## Pete

A dilapidated, abandoned building is a nuisance to the neighborhood and bad for the City overall.

The incentive is that as long as it's kept in poor shape, it has much less of a tax assessment, which makes it easy on the owners and bad for the City who needs the revenue.

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## warreng88

Pete, it looks like posts are being duplicated in two threads. One in General Real Estate Topics and one in General Civic Issues.

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## Pete

> Pete, it looks like posts are being duplicated in two threads. One in General Real Estate Topics and one in General Civic Issues.


I merged two threads to just this one.

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## tomokc

Yes, I saw where Steve wrote that it had been the subject of police & fire calls, but he didn't provide a time frame or context (I've had the police and fire departments at my house, but that doesn't mean we should tear it down). 

Further, Steve has simply used tax revenue as a definition of worthiness. If the Sunshine building was torn down entirely, the owner could make an argument that it should be taxed at an even lower rate because NO improvements exist. Then what do you have? No blight, but less tax revenue. 

Yes, it's an eyesore. Yes, it's a public nuisance. Yes, the owners should be outed and shamed. Yes, they should sell it to someone who will invest, build and improve the neighborhood. But, yes, it's also their property and they're free to do with it as they please, so long as it is secure doesn't pose a hazard. I'm also not happy with continual delays with the Tower Theater or Nick Preftakes or the Brewer brothers, but that doesn't mean that the city has the right to tell them what to do.

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## Pete

> But, yes, it's also their property and they're free to do with it as they please, so long as it is secure doesn't pose a hazard. I'm also not happy with continual delays with the Tower Theater or Nick Preftakes or the Brewer brothers, but that doesn't mean that the city has the right to tell them what to do.


They will still be able to do as they please, they just will be paying more in taxes.

In the study, it showed there was a huge incidence of police and fire at abandoned versus occupied buildings.  So, you have the buildings contributing the least in terms of taxes with the most demand for expensive services.

----------


## adaniel

Freedom! Liberty! I have the right to let my property decline and be a meth den because I am an American, dammit! 

Sorry but I just have to smh at stuff like this. People who say such things have obviously never lived in an urban environment where this is a problem. At its most basic argument, the city is just looking out for the itself and the taxpayer. Lower property taxes paid in+higher likelihood of police and fire call means the city is _losing_ money on each and every one of these abandoned properties. And that $ has to come from somewhere, typically your pocket. 

I can tell you that most big cities have something very similar to this. We are tardy to the party here, and its long overdue.

----------


## Steve

> Yes, I saw where Steve wrote that it had been the subject of police & fire calls, but he didn't provide a time frame or context (I've had the police and fire departments at my house, but that doesn't mean we should tear it down). 
> 
> Further, Steve has simply used tax revenue as a definition of worthiness. If the Sunshine building was torn down entirely, the owner could make an argument that it should be taxed at an even lower rate because NO improvements exist. Then what do you have? No blight, but less tax revenue. 
> 
> Yes, it's an eyesore. Yes, it's a public nuisance. Yes, the owners should be outed and shamed. Yes, they should sell it to someone who will invest, build and improve the neighborhood. But, yes, it's also their property and they're free to do with it as they please, so long as it is secure doesn't pose a hazard. I'm also not happy with continual delays with the Tower Theater or Nick Preftakes or the Brewer brothers, but that doesn't mean that the city has the right to tell them what to do.


Actually, they're not free to do with it as they wish. They can not, for example, operate it as a meth lab. Cities have codes and zoning that govern how property is used. That is common and has been in place for decades. Would you be OK if I opened a meth lab in the house next to your's? After all - if I bought the property, isn't it my right as you argue it for me to do as I wish?

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## Pete

What's particularly bad about the current situation is that there is such a demand for housing and commercial properties, and yet people just sit on them because it doesn't cost them anything.

I've heard so many stories about owners being approached about selling an abandoned property and they just sit on them for decades.

This is not only bad for the tax base, it's terrible for the neighborhoods.  It's really pretty absurd that the current situation has been allowed for so long.


What I really hope is that once these properties are on a registry, that the City will actually issue citations when someone calls about municipal code violations.  To me, this would be far more effective than some small surcharge.

If you read through the muni code, it is actually quite strict -- it just isn't enforced.  You have to keep your property secure, in decent shape, grass cut, etc.  Almost none of the vacant properties around town come close to meeting these requirements and they should be fined accordingly.

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## Steve

Tomokc, I hope I didn't offend you with my response. But I could also propose opening a sirachi (sp) hot sauce plant next to your home, or a strip club or a live rock venue, based on the idea that a person's individual property rights should be paramount.

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## kevinpate

> What I really hope is that once these properties are on a registry, that the City will actually issue citations when someone calls about municipal code violations.  To me, this would be far more effective than some small surcharge.
> 
> If you read through the muni code, it is actually quite strict -- it just isn't enforced.  You have to keep your property secure, in decent shape, grass cut, etc.  Almost none of the vacant properties around town come close to meeting these requirements and they should be fined accordingly.


If memory serves, squeaky wheels can get code enforcement out, but little else will.  My memory from when I worked in south OKC is there's not much active enforcement happening, but eventually there may be some modicum of reactive enforcement.

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## Dubya61

> What I really hope is that once these properties are on a registry, that the City will actually issue citations when someone calls about municipal code violations.  To me, this would be far more effective than some small surcharge.


I know sometimes I tend to have my head in the clouds and not a firm grip on reality, but what I would like to see happen is a registry developed (realistic IMO) and a planner (non-engineer planner -- not realistic in OKC IMO) work with these identified properties in a calculated manner to find the best possible use for these properties that benefits both the city AND the owner.  There's got to be a win-win possible here, I think.
If you think my idea is loopy and you've heard it before, see my comments about getting people off subsistence payments in the WalMart Food drive thread.  Same concept.

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## kevinpate

My only concern is remembering something similar in Tulsa, not all that long ago.  Something was instituted to urge along activity on empty structures.
Fairly quickly the empty structures were gone, replaced by empty lots.  Most/all of the now empty lots were still owned by folks who were not only still in no hurry to sell or develop, but a bit peeved as well.

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## tomokc

Steve, no apology necessary. We're good. 

I don't propose meth labs, brothels and the like anywhere because they are illegal. Similarly I don't propose allowing a hot sauce plant next to a single family neighborhood because that's contrary to how we zone our city. C'mon people, these things are obvious, they don't happen, and this isn't what we're talking about. 

If we're talking about the city recovering the cost of providing municipal services due to police and fire responses to a property, then charge per response the same way that police charge for responding to repeated burglar alarms (they do - I paid them when a commercial alarm system went on the fritz at a business location I own). In fact, if a large bar (think of the big ones along I-40) has police called repeatedly on weekends, the owner should pay for that as well. Do you need police for a funeral procession? Absolutely charge for these things. But don't raise the owner's taxes because his property is vacant and poorly-maintained. 

BTW, I think I DO have a meth lab next to my house! It's a rent house with people coming & going all hours of the day & night, and I've had several discussions with the police. The neighbors and I would love to be rid of them, but everyone's hands are tied until an illegal act is witnessed and reported. Next to my office is a property where the owner never cuts his grass. We report it to the city all the time, they cut the grass, and assess the owner the cost.

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## HangryHippo

> My only concern is remembering something similar in Tulsa, not all that long ago.  Something was instituted to urge along activity on empty structures.
> Fairly quickly the empty structures were gone, replaced by empty lots.  Most/all of the now empty lots were still owned by folks who were not only still in no hurry to sell or develop, but a bit peeved as well.


Did Tulsa do anything to combat the sudden demolition derby that arose?

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## Pete

Property owners still have to go through an application process to demolish any structure.

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## HangryHippo

> Property owners still have to go through an application process to demolish any structure.


Which hasn't seemed to stop many people in OKC...

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## Pete

> Which hasn't seemed to stop many people in OKC...


There has been some notable saves, such as the Gold Dome and hopefully the old Film Exchange building.

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## LakeEffect

> Which hasn't seemed to stop many people in OKC...


Demolition is only reviewed for appropriateness in HP districts and urban design districts, covering about 5 square miles out of 620... The rest are just demolition permits reviewed to make sure utilities are off, occupants out, etc.

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## Urbanized

Yep. This is my biggest concern, too. If this leads to wholesale, poorly-conceived demolitions it is a net loser. There should be incentives/disincentives in place to combat this. The purpose of this should be to accomplish one of two things:

Encourage renovationEncourage sales of noncontributing properties
There are of course many buildings that can/should be demolished, but that should only be undertaken with proper consideration, not because it saves somebody a few bucks. Buildings lost forever are also lost forever to the tax rolls (unintentionally ensuring noncontributing status), and as we have seen, it can take many, many decades before new buildings appear in their place, if ever.

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## Douglas

Pete - the OKC Action Line is actually pretty decent at getting citations issued etc.  I know many neighborhoods that are making concerted efforts to drive off slum lords etc by using the codes to their advantage and others - I'm looking at you Plaza District - that should be using them very aggressively to help police their areas.






> What's particularly bad about the current situation is that there is such a demand for housing and commercial properties, and yet people just sit on them because it doesn't cost them anything.
> 
> I've heard so many stories about owners being approached about selling an abandoned property and they just sit on them for decades.
> 
> This is not only bad for the tax base, it's terrible for the neighborhoods.  It's really pretty absurd that the current situation has been allowed for so long.
> 
> 
> What I really hope is that once these properties are on a registry, that the City will actually issue citations when someone calls about municipal code violations.  To me, this would be far more effective than some small surcharge.
> 
> If you read through the muni code, it is actually quite strict -- it just isn't enforced.  You have to keep your property secure, in decent shape, grass cut, etc.  Almost none of the vacant properties around town come close to meeting these requirements and they should be fined accordingly.

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## Pete

^

Glad to hear that.

I know several here have complained in the past that they have been slow to cite property owners.


I hope more people will call and report properties -- they usually only take up issues that get reported by citizens.

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## kevinpate

> Did Tulsa do anything to combat the sudden demolition derby that arose?


I don't recall.  Sorry.

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## LakeEffect

> Pete - the OKC Action Line is actually pretty decent at getting citations issued etc.  I know many neighborhoods that are making concerted efforts to drive off slum lords etc by using the codes to their advantage and others - I'm looking at you Plaza District - that should be using them very aggressively to help police their areas.


My neighbor has been in a code violation process since December 2011. He has a court date of January 24, 2014 for that violation. He keeps getting his citation extended because he shows "progress" on this property maintenance violations. He owns multiple residences. I do not agree that the code enforcement citation process is as effective as it could or should be.

Plaza District is a commercial district. It has very few, if any, of its own actual businesses that need code enforcement assistance anymore. The neighborhoods around need it. 

Another thing, almost 99% (ok, I don't know the exact figure) of enforcement is complaint-based. Unless someone in a neighborhood takes it upon themselves to call in (or email/fill out the online form) the complaint, it won't get touched.

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## Pete

Very few cities do any proactive enforcement but rather rely completely on citizen complaints.

That has always struck me as very odd because municipalities make a ton of revenue from proactive motor vehicle enforcement:  speeding, parking, etc.  They also make a lot of money from enforcing other misdemeanors.  Often, this is a very significant part of their operating budget.

I've never understood why most are hyper-vigilant about those things (often to the point of absurdity) but often won't even enforce the municipal code when those violations are brought to them as they sit in their offices.

And frankly, I believe keeping weeds cut and structures presentable would have a much more positive impact on a community's quality of life as opposed to setting speed traps.

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## hoya

> Do they all think a Walgreens is going to come make a million dollar offer for their slum house?


That's exactly what they think.  Their property taxes are low enough that they can just sit on it.  If somebody comes along in 10 years and buys it from them they'll make a lot of money.  Often they have an unrealistic view as to what their property is worth, and the taxes are low enough that they aren't forced to reassess that view.

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## Pete

^

And many acquired these properties for next to nothing, so they have little investment in the first place.

But in the meantime, the citizens and many private interests have invested billions to improve the City all around them, and they selfishly wait for a payday they never really earned.  In fact, in the cases where the City has to intervene, they are working against the best interests of the community.

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## LandRunOkie

> Yep. This is my biggest concern, too. If this leads to wholesale, poorly-conceived demolitions it is a net loser. There should be incentives/disincentives in place to combat this. The purpose of this should be to accomplish one of two things:
> 
> Encourage renovationEncourage sales of noncontributing properties 
> There are of course many buildings that can/should be demolished, but that should only be undertaken with proper consideration, not because it saves somebody a few bucks.


We agree on something.



> Can they not use existing nuisance abatement laws/consequences to give more incentive?





> Nope. The laws essentially create a set-up where it's better to board up and keep it secured than it is to keep things occupied and in good shape. The Walcourt is a good example (NE 13th & Walnut). Been boarded up for 30 years, and in relatively good shape. Many, many people would love it buy it and re-use it.





> The incentive is basically that you can let your property sit and be judged as "salvage" by the County and pay next-to-nothing in taxes. Start putting money into it, and you'll have to pay more taxes (but your value/income should go up too).


Somehow in this hard hitting discussion the actual fines never got mentioned.  The city unanimously approved a ~$270 first time fine and ~$190 charge for every year after that.  This was reported by KFOR, not NewsOK.  No one appreciates these abandoned properties littering the neighborhoods but this sounds like bad policy.  

I've advocated many times to simply raise the property tax rates on vacant/abandoned properties (VABs).  That way you don't give government bureaucrats the opportunity to screw things up based on their own decision making.  It also gives people an incentive to keep their homes livable rather than tear them down, as mentioned above.  Unfortunately this is another case where the council approves a study by an outside firm (GSBS Richman), the firm tells them what they want to hear, and they do what they want.  I will gladly charge the city for my advice, maybe then they will listen to it and I'll be better off!

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## LakeEffect

> I've advocated many times to simply raise the property tax rates on vacant/abandoned properties (VABs).  That way you don't give government bureaucrats the opportunity to screw things up based on their own decision making.  It also gives people an incentive to keep their homes livable rather than tear them down, as mentioned above.  Unfortunately this is another case where the council approves a study by an outside firm (GSBS Richman), the firm tells them what they want to hear, and they do what they want.  I will gladly charge the city for my advice, maybe then they will listen to it and I'll be better off!


Not true at all. The City cannot raise property tax rates, other than possibly increasing mills to pay for more GO Bonds, and only when a GO Bond election is held. This would have to be done through county government. And even then, I believe state legislation (or maybe even the state constitution) would have to be changed to allow taxation based on land value, not personal property value. Additionally, property taxing and assessment is still part of government bureacracy because an elected official has charge of assessors and assessments. 

Also, how is fining someone for having a VAB bad policy? I don't get it.

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## LandRunOkie

They definitely need the power to tax land value rather than improved value.  The costlier it becomes to hold unimproved land the more land will flow from speculators to those who want to do something with it (lower prices).  Regarding the assessor's office v. the city government bureaucracy, it is a less subjective decision to estimate a property's value than to decide to levy a VAB fine.  So there's less margin for error.  The fine is bad policy because the vast majority of land in OKC city limits isn't worth building on except for a DIYer like me.  Also many of these properties are beyond saving given the cost of labor.  So naturally this policy will lead to the demolition of livable properties while an increase in tax rate for VABS would lead to development.

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## onthestrip

> ^
> 
> *And many acquired these properties for next to nothing, so they have little investment in the first place.*
> 
> But in the meantime, the citizens and many private interests have invested billions to improve the City all around them, and they selfishly wait for a payday they never really earned.  In fact, in the cases where the City has to intervene, they are working against the best interests of the community.


Which is why you'd think they would sell for a reasonable amount. But I know, Ive dealt with this before, everyone thinks their property is worth more than it is. They hear of what something sells for on a busy, hard corner and then think their property which is off the beaten path must be worth that too.

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## easternobserver

> Very few cities do any proactive enforcement but rather rely completely on citizen complaints.
> 
> That has always struck me as very odd because municipalities make a ton of revenue from proactive motor vehicle enforcement:  speeding, parking, etc.  They also make a lot of money from enforcing other misdemeanors.  Often, this is a very significant part of their operating budget.
> 
> I've never understood why most are hyper-vigilant about those things (often to the point of absurdity) but often won't even enforce the municipal code when those violations are brought to them as they sit in their offices.
> 
> And frankly, I believe keeping weeds cut and structures presentable would have a much more positive impact on a community's quality of life as opposed to setting speed traps.


Its not that easy.  Most code complaints that involve an occupied house are resolved very quickly, barring extenuating circumstances.  The occupied houses that drag on tend to have mental health issues related, at least in many cases.  On others, there are economic factors -- I've seen people prosecuted, fined almost $4000 (for repeated violations) and put on "time-pay" status for years, paying ten or twenty dollars each time they are hauled back into court and threatened with arrest.

The unoccupied ones are more complicated.  The easy ones get resolved quickly, but the ones that remain tend to fall in to two groups -- those that have been abandoned by absentee landlords and those that have unclear ownership because of estates that were never probated.  Finding a responsible person and getting service on a ticket cost tons in research time and usually only result in a bench warrant that will never be executed. 

Bottom line -- there really is no money to be had from code enforcement fines.

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## trousers

Not sure if this has already been brought up somewhere else...
Bill to stop crackdown on vacant structures advances in Oklahoma legislature | Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com


The Oklahoma legislature is moving forward with a bill that would stop cities from cracking down on vacant structures.  
Last week, a House committee passed HB 2620 that would stop cities from creating a vacant structure registry and charging property owners “fees” for owning vacant property. Back in December, the City Council of Oklahoma City passed a vacant structure ordinance that defines a vacant structure as “…any building or portion thereof that, regardless of its structural condition, is not currently occupied.”

The Oklahoma Association of Realtors worries that homeowners would be forced to sell below market value in order to avoid paying the fees associated with owning a vacant structure. According to the ordinance, vacant property owners would pay an initial fee of $285, plus an annual fee of $190 and a monthly “visual assessment fee” of $190.

The ordinance was presented to the city council by the Community Progress Leadership Institute, which is based in Cambridge, Mass. Tuesday, the city council voted to pay for a group of people to travel to that Institute on the campus of Harvard University to learn more about enforcing the vacant properties ordinance.

The bill to prohibit that ordinance will soon be going before a full vote of the state House of Representatives.

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## onthestrip

Wouldnt a city know whats best for themselves rather than the folks at the capitol?

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## Dubya61

Why would you reckon the state cares at all?  Is it something like Senator Imhofe's crusade against the FAA?  More of a legislation nee personal issue situation?

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## Urbanized

Realtor lobby $$$. Pure and simple.

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## HangryHippo

The legislature in this state is a ****ing joke.  It will be one of the main reasons why I leave Oklahoma.

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## Dubya61

> Realtor lobby $$$. Pure and simple.


In fact, this was on the news last night and the person who was saying that OKC's plans were not fair or right was labeled as part of a Realtor's association.  Hmmm.

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## traxx

> The legislature in this state is a ****ing joke.  It will be one of the main reasons why I leave Oklahoma.

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## Plutonic Panda

Hemingstein is right, traxx. At points it seems like it hopeless and the only thing to do is just leave.

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## tomokc

Oklahoma House approves measure to ban city vacant property registries | News OK 

As some feared, the Oklahoma House passed a bill that prevents any city from creating a vacant property registry. It now goes to the Oklahoma Senate for consideration. As other posters asked, "Why is this the business of the state legislature?" Next time you see a realtor, thank them - they led the fight which bans any city in Oklahoma from creating such a registry. 

_The Oklahoma House passed a bill Tuesday to ban city registries for vacant property. House Bill 2620, pushed by a coalition led by the Oklahoma Association of Realtors, came in response to the Oklahoma City Council’s approval of such a registry late last year and other cities interested in regulating such property.

Rep. Steve Martin, R-Bartlesville, is the author.

The bill passed 68-23 and now goes to the Senate.

Realtors also are supporting a related bill, House Bill 3363 by Rep. Jon Echols, R-Oklahoma City, said Matt Robison, vice president of government affairs for the Oklahoma Association of Realtors. Echols’ bill would “better define abandoned and neglected property,” Robison said.

Oklahoma City estimated that there are 12,000 vacant or abandoned buildings in the city, and relied on a study that cited rundown houses and commercial buildings as an across-the-board drag on property values. The Realtors and others objected to fees associated with administering the registry, among other things._

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## HangryHippo

More brilliant "leadership".

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## CaptDave

What happened to all the "local control" blather from that bunch at 23rd & Lincoln?

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## onthestrip

This is similar to the tobacco lobby several years ago getting the state to enact a law that no city or town could make tougher anti-smoking laws than what the state had on the books. The party that always talks about local control is doing the exact opposite. 

My guess is that there will be a tougher battle in it passing in the senate.

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## HangryHippo

It's more "small government" that the Republicans in state legislature want us to have.

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## traxx

> Rep. Steve Martin, R-Bartlesville, is the author.


There's your problem. He's a wild and crazy guy who likes the American women with their big American breasts.

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## kevinpate

> What happened to all the "local control" blather from that bunch at 23rd & Lincoln?


Looks to me the R who currently control state govt. are seizing local control quite well.
Oh .. you thought they meant they were for bolstering more local control?  Well ... aren't you just the cutest little thing, bless your heart.

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## hoya

We have a representative who said we need to have open carry because he was once threatened by a turkey.

Let that sink in.

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## Dubya61

> We have a representative who said we need to have open carry because he was once threatened by a turkey.
> 
> Let that sink in.


Yeah, but a wild, rabid turkey with HUGE FANGS!

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## tomokc

I can't believe that the senate would pass this (or the governor sign it), but stranger things have happened. 

If so, how can the city enumerate this information on these blighted buildings without violating the law?

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## Plutonic Panda

Oklahoma Realtors praise property law | News OK

----------


## capt_john_97

> Morgan Building (March 10 2012) - a set on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have wanted to go inside this Morgan building since I was Working at Foster Pool next door to it in the early 90's

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## onthestrip

Editorial from The Oklahoman on hypocrisy of GOP led legislature regarding nuisance properties.

Problem of abandoned property won't solve itself | NewsOK.com

----------


## Plutonic Panda

> Editorial from The Oklahoman on hypocrisy of GOP led legislature regarding nuisance properties.
> 
> Problem of abandoned property won't solve itself | NewsOK.com


aaahh it's like cancer, if you ignore it, it will go away.

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## HangryHippo

> Editorial from The Oklahoman on hypocrisy of GOP led legislature regarding nuisance properties.
> 
> Problem of abandoned property won't solve itself | NewsOK.com


It's a matter of personal freedoms to be a ****head landlord letting your properties rot.

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## Spartan

> Oklahoma Realtors praise property law | News OK


They knew they couldn't get a win from a rational body so they took this issue to a bought and sold state legislature.

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## onthestrip

> They knew they couldn't get a win from a rational body so they took this issue to a bought and sold state legislature.


Its amazing how much easier it is to sway 100 or so dimwit legislators with an open hand than it was to sway 5 council members. Speaks how moronic and special interest-centric our state lawmakers are.

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## Dubya61

> Its amazing how much easier it is to sway 100 or so dimwit legislators with an open hand than it was to sway 5 council members. Speaks how moronic and special interest-centric our state lawmakers are.


Why wouldn't these 100 or so dimwit legislators respond with a "why do I care" regarding what municipalities do with abandoned or decrepit properties?
What's that?  They were told to say what they did by their handlers?  oh   .    .   .

----------


## Spartan

> Its amazing how much easier it is to sway 100 or so dimwit legislators with an open hand than it was to sway 5 council members. Speaks how moronic and special interest-centric our state lawmakers are.


And the quality of our civic leadership for the most part.

----------


## Tigerguy

> aaahh it's like cancer, if you ignore it, it will go away.


I have tried that a few times with the legislature. I have not yet been successful.

----------


## soonerguru

> Editorial from The Oklahoman on hypocrisy of GOP led legislature regarding nuisance properties.
> 
> Problem of abandoned property won't solve itself | NewsOK.com


Notice how the Oklahoman completely omits the fact that their bestie, Mary Failin', signed this third trimester abortion of a bill. They also failed to mention the political money these Pubs are going to rake in from lobbies for their legislative succor.

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## Plutonic Panda

http://okgazette.com/2014/10/15/city...ed-properties/

----------


## Plutonic Panda

OKC Issues New Ordinance To Crack Down On Abandoned Buildings - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

----------


## bradh

abandoned homes also seem to be popular spots for Joe Dorman signs.  A house across the street from some friends has been vacant for the 4+ years they've lived there off NW 18th, and it's proudly displaying a Dorman sign.

----------


## Plutonic Panda

Oklahoma City Council passes blight, rideshare ordinances | News OK

----------


## Plutonic Panda

City to start charging nuisance property owners for police, fire services | Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com

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## Village

> 


I know this is an old post but i wonder, how did this end up like this? Was this originally the only brick building there surrounded by houses, or were there more old buildings next to this that eventually got demolished? It seems like this is in a pretty forgotten part of OKC

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## ljbab728

> City to start charging nuisance property owners for police, fire services | Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com


Now I expect our wonderful state legislature to pass a bill banning something like this.

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## Plutonic Panda

I don't think you're wrong.  :Frown:

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## Spartan

> Now I expect our wonderful state legislature to pass a bill banning something like this.


They won't if nobody brings this to their attention (like realtors). They definitely aren't very clued into OKC civic affairs.

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## KayneMo

Any update or activity on the Walcourt at NE 13th and Walnut? It's such a stunning building.

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## ljbab728

> Any update or activity on the Walcourt at NE 13th and Walnut? It's such a stunning building.


Steve mentioned in his last chat that the Walcourt was one of the places he was most concerned about.

----------

