# Civic Matters > Ask Anything About OKC >  Karen Silkwood

## YO MUDA

Can you tell me where the plant was where Karen Silkwood worked? I know I heard Cresent, but where in Cresent?

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## Spartan

I think it was north of Crescent on 74. I think it's still there, long shuttered... I think Tronox is still dealing with it.

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## Pete

It's actually south of Crescent, just west of Guthrie:






http://www.nrc.gov/info-finder/decom...-facility.html




> The 840 acre Cimarron site in Crescent, Oklahoma is situated along the southern bank of the Cimarron River approximately 30 miles north of Oklahoma City. Most of the site has been decommissioned and released for unrestricted use. Uranium contamination in excess of release criteria is in the groundwater at Burial Area 1 and around Well 1319. Technetium (Tc)-99 exceeding release criteria is in the groundwater in the vicinity of Waste Pond 1 and 2. Concentrations of Tc-99 within applicable release criteria have also been found in Burial Area 1.
> 
> The site is also licensed for onsite disposal of up to 500,000 cubic feet of Option 2 [of the 1981 Branch Technical Position (BTP)] contaminated soil in Subarea N. NRC staff reviewed Cimarron's Subarea N Report (submitted in January 2002) and performed its independent confirmatory survey in June 2002. Due to an occurrence of groundwater exceeding the 180 pCi/l release limit in a nearby portion of Subarea K, NRC is delaying release of Subarea N until the groundwater issue is resolved. There are no immediate radiological hazards at the site.
> 
> The licensee estimates the cost of decommissioning to be approximately $3.6 million. The staff is concerned that this amount may be insufficient for any groundwater remediation method other than monitored natural attenuation (MNA). In June 2008, notified the NRC that MNA has not been effective and submitted a groundwater decommissioning plan proposing the use of bioremediation. The staff rejected this plan and another Groundwater DP was submitted in March 2009. The staff was reviewing this DP when it was directed to cease work because Tronox had declared bankruptcy.
> 
> A financial assurance issue arose when on June 12, 2009, Cimarron's parent company, Tronox, filed for bankruptcy. NRC staff has contacted JP Morgan Bank, holder of Cimarron's financial assurance and decided not to call in the financial assurance yet as this would hamper Tronox efforts to recover from bankruptcy. OGC attorneys are also working with the US Attorney on this matter. The Kerr-McGee Corporation (KMC) operated two plants at the Cimarron facility between 1965 and 1975, each under its own separate Atomic Energy Commission license. Radioactive Materials License SNM-928 was issued under 10 CFR Part 70 for the Uranium Fuel Fabrication Facility, and Radioactive Materials License SNM-1174 was issued for the Mixed Oxide Fuel Fabrication (MOFF) Facility. Subsequently, in 1988, Cimarron Corporation, a wholly-owned subsidiary of KMC, became responsible for the Cimarron Facility. NRC terminated Radioactive Materials License SNM-1174 by letter dated February 5, 1993. Although Radioactive Materials License SNM-1174 was terminated, the MOFF plant building exterior surfaces and grounds were retained under Radioactive Materials License SNM-928.
> 
> Cimarron began decommissioning in 1977 and has completed most of the decommissioning activities needed for NRC to release the Cimarron site for unrestricted use and to terminate Radioactive Materials License SNM-928. The primary remaining activity to be completed is groundwater remediation. Cimarron considered several alternatives for groundwater remediation including natural attenuation, excavation, and the use of institutional controls. Cimarron submitted its proposal to use bioremediation to NRC in December 2006. Meanwhile, in January 2006, ownership of the site was transferred from Cimarron Corporation to Tronox.

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## YO MUDA

Thank you. Much smaller than I thought it would be.

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## Bill Robertson

I worked for Kerr-McGee R&D from the late 80s to about 2001. We used the large north building in the picture for equipment storage. The NRC had released it by that time. 

The easternmost building had a  pigment process test facility built in it for a while during that time. The NRC never really controlled it. It wasn't part of the plutonium project. 

The southernmost building, the white area in the picture, was pretty much demolished by the time the NRC decided it was clean enough to release.

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## YO MUDA

Thats interesting. Thanks for the info SS.

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## Pete

I looked up the movie Silkwood at IMDB and none of the filming was in Oklahoma...

Mostly in Texas with a little in New Mexico.

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## Spartan

It was a pretty bleak movie..

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## RadicalModerate

The Real (real) Life Version of Karen Silkwood's "co-worker/roomate" (not the boyfriend)
in The Film is/was fairly bleak too.

And I can't say that I feel sorry for her . . .
(even if i do)

She couldn't understand the value of "kind generosity" in a practical way.
And her paradigm of reality nearly got ME killed.
Accidentally.
(carelessness on my part)

The strangest thing about the entire Silkwood Episode
is How The F'k Could The AEC allow a Nuclear Plant Seed Producer
to be placed right next to a friggin' RIVER fer cryin' out loud?
Oh. Wait.
Politics.
Kerr
McGee
etc..... 
OK  =)

But that was then . . .
And this is now . . .
Except for the mysterious visit
of the Current President
to a location
just north of Cushing
on the road to Ripley. =)

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## Spartan

Alright RadicalModerate, I've been scratching my head for a while, _but you gotta clue me in on how to decipher your posts._ I always stick to the top half of the forum (mostly urban development board) so I'm admittedly not very well versed in your posts..  :Dad:

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## ljbab728

> Alright RadicalModerate, I've been scratching my head for a while, _but you gotta clue me in on how to decipher your posts._ I always stick to the top half of the forum (mostly urban development board) so I'm admittedly not very well versed in your posts..


Spartan, I recently mentioned the same thing to RM and was basically told that we are "too lazy" to try to understand.

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## BlackmoreRulz

RM: we used to fish on the river right there just west of the  intersection of 74 & 33...good thing we were upriver I guess.

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## bombermwc

Just some opposing view from the movie. I know a radiation oncologist that was part of the professional witness group for that whole mess. Don't let the movie fool you. Everything I've heard from first-hand accounts paints a VERY different story. One that does NOT indicate fraud on the part of Kerr McGee, but actually shows how Ms. Silkwood was just out to make trouble. That just doesn't make a very good movie now does it. Like oh so many stories, when Hollywood gets hold of them, they get altered and twisted so they can sell tickets. I liked the movie, just didn't think of it as fact. "Based on a true story" has a LOOOOOT of wiggle room in it. 

Go check out the wikipedia page and you'll see some crazy far out conspiracy theories. There is some fact to what happened, in that regulation and security at the facility was lacking. And it's probably good that the place was closed. But it's a far cry from the place being part of an evil empire out to kill its employees. You also have to remember what kind of name KerrMcGee was at that time. It was a monstrous energy giant in the country/world....very different from the sizzled out company it was even to the end of the 90's. If you're 35 or under (and that includes me), then you probably don't remember what a big name it was....and how believable the story was. People love to hate big companies and love to believe the david v. goliath story.

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## Bill Robertson

> Everything I've heard from first-hand accounts paints a VERY different story. One that does NOT indicate fraud on the part of Kerr McGee, but actually shows how Ms. Silkwood was just out to make trouble.


When I worked for K-M many of the people that worked at the plutonium plant had transferred to the R&D center. They all shared the opinion that Ms. Silkwood was the problem not K-M. The plant wasn't perfect but she was the problem in her case.

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## RadicalModerate

Maybe I'll start double spacing everything so those who wish to do so can read between the lines.
(Just kidding . . . And I almost certainly never accused anyone in here of being lazy. I said, "most people" are. =)

Anyway . . . 
The gist of the first part of the "coded" story, above, is that I once did some work for Karen Silkwood's former roomate who wanted me to "build a roof over a basement."

The basement was the remains of an old farmhouse, south of Guthrie, that had burned down.  Allegedly, according to a local guy, who had known her for years, the farmhouse burned three times in one night. ("Third time is the charm", as they say.)

I only knew she was Karen Silkwood's roomate because, at one point near the end of our part of the construction, we had to move boxes and boxes of AEC/Legal-type documents that she had moved into the structure once it was in the dry.  I thought it was strange for someone to have that sort of stuff and then I just happened to read an article in Rolling Stone about The Silkwood Incident in which her name was mentioned.  It was easy to put two and two together.

Much easier than to heal up from the nearly fatal construction accident that had occurred on the first or second day of the project.  I won't go into detail, but we had a freak structual collapse due to being in too much of a hurry that could very easily have killed both my helper and I.  My knee was the primary victim of my carelessness (and hurry) but it wasn't a permanent injury.

As our part of the project approached completion, I offered to obtain some high efficiency windows for her at cost, but she thought they were far too expensive and declined the offer.  This was crazy--excuse me, I meant non-cost/value aware--because the way this "remodel/rebuild" was configured, you could have kept it livably warm in the winter with a few candles. Since it was mostly underground, with a very high vaulted ceiling, it would stay cool in the summer, too.  With the right windows.

Later (over the years), I read that she went on to having a long feud with the church across the street--that included spray painted graffiti implying that the church was demon-possessed or whatever.  All of this lead to various periods of "treatment" for her at various mental health facilities.

Pretty bleak, no? (Now, if that church had been Westboro Baptist her accusations would have been well founded and not bleak or crazy at all.)

By the way . . . She struck me as a strong, capable, "git 'er done" kinda gal.
Still, I'd have to take anything, from her direction, resembling testimony with a grain of salt.

Hopefully, that translates the first three "paragraphs", above. =)
(Post #9 . . . ^ above)

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## RadicalModerate

> RM: we used to fish on the river right there just west of the  intersection of 74 & 33...good thing we were upriver I guess.


Rumor has it that you didn't even have to cook the ones downriver from the plant, back in the day . . .



It wasn't that somehow they magically became "sushi grade" . . .
It had something to do with their glow.

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## jdcf

I remember one time going to a movie at Northpark Mall, and there was a group of about 30 or so individuals with tables and booths set up inside the mall.  They were distributing literature against the building of the Black Fox nuclear power plant in the northeastern part of the state.  Karen Silkwood was kind of a folk hero to some during that time period.  Some activists, as these people did, associated her name with their cause.  I suppose this was in the late '70's. ???

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## RadicalModerate

Those people--ancient anti-Nuclear activists--obviously hadn't swallowed the downstream fish from "down by the river that flowed by the [fuel plant/mine]."

At least today, those misguided, antique, troublemakers would have the evidence of Chernobyl and The Unanticipated Consequences of Japanese Earthquake-Generated Tsunami's on their side.

Even if The Sierra Club has apparently deserted "la causa du jour" . . . =)

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## boscorama

The roommate's underground house is still there but I didn't know the history. Never met the woman but figured I would've been grateful if I'd been portrayed by Cher in the movie.

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## Just the facts

> Chernobyl and The Unanticipated Consequences of Japanese Earthquake-Generated Tsunami's on their side.


Disasters for sure, but hardly the disasters the anti-nuke crowd told us would happen.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72E42U20110315

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## bombermwc

Chernobyl was as much a failure of training and common sense as anything. And the Japanese plant, sort of a mix of stupid design and bad luck. Why in the world would you build so close to the ocean without super-duper plans for what to do? But also, who would have expected a Tsunami to be high enough to knock out the generators?

Those are both reasons why cold reactors are built these days. They not require effort to make the reaction rather than requiring effort to keep it under control. Makes it a lot safer if something happens. But we have had "issues" here in the U.S. as well...3 mile island and all. But things are much much safer than they were in the 70's. Hell, that's 40 years ago folks. You don't think some progress has been made in 40 years? Come on.

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## SoonerDave

> Just some opposing view from the movie. I know a radiation oncologist that was part of the professional witness group for that whole mess. Don't let the movie fool you. Everything I've heard from first-hand accounts paints a VERY different story. One that does NOT indicate fraud on the part of Kerr McGee, but actually shows how Ms. Silkwood was just out to make trouble. That just doesn't make a very good movie now does it. Like oh so many stories, when Hollywood gets hold of them, they get altered and twisted so they can sell tickets. I liked the movie, just didn't think of it as fact. "Based on a true story" has a LOOOOOT of wiggle room in it. 
> 
> Go check out the wikipedia page and you'll see some crazy far out conspiracy theories. There is some fact to what happened, in that regulation and security at the facility was lacking. And it's probably good that the place was closed. But it's a far cry from the place being part of an evil empire out to kill its employees. You also have to remember what kind of name KerrMcGee was at that time. It was a monstrous energy giant in the country/world....very different from the sizzled out company it was even to the end of the 90's. If you're 35 or under (and that includes me), then you probably don't remember what a big name it was....and how believable the story was. People love to hate big companies and love to believe the david v. goliath story.


I had the exact same response to the famous Erin Brockovich (sp) movie regarding PG&E...remember walking out of the theater, hating PG&E, the evil corporation....but then *after* I saw it did some reading about what the movie presented versus reality, and I was shocked at a) what I read, and b) my own naivete regarding _just_ how loosely Hollywood plays with the truth... Perhaps the biggest thing I remember was that many of the diseases  implicitly blamed on PG&E weren't even worst-case consequences of the "bad chemical" they were using, and that the cases of other diseases among citizens with whom PG&E settled were actually entirely in line with broader statistical occurrences of the same diseases. 

Don't mean to hijack onto a different controversial movie, just trying to make the point how that particular movie taught me that while corporations will certainly tilt things their direction, Hollywood certainly does the same, and it doesn't surprise me at all to hear suggestions that "Silkwood" was much the same way.

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## RadicalModerate

The deer that ran out in front of her car on Highway 74, caused her to swerve, lose control and wind up in that ditch, finally came forward to confess.  But the press covered it up.  They also didn't run the story about the disgruntled co-worker who put that dent in her back fender and/or bumper because he was tired of her constant whining, bitching and moaning. And the raccoon that stole all of her secret paperwork--just because that is what raccoons do--was ignored during the course of the investigation much like the eyewitnesses who could identify the shooter on the grassy knoll.

_The roommate's underground house is still there but I didn't know the history. Never met the woman but figured I would've been grateful if I'd been portrayed by Cher in the movie._ 

FYI: The roommate looked less like Cher than anyone I could possibly imagine.  Just another example of Hollywood playing fast and loose with the facts and twisting our perceptions of reality. But WHY???? (insert Theremin arpeggio)

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## Just the facts

All stories need a villain.  If a villain is not available one will be provided.

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## YO MUDA

It wasnt a deer it was bigfoot.

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## RadicalModerate

Yeah . . . It was Bigfoot . . .
Yeti . . . Sasquatch . . .
Under a Crescent Moon . . .
That's the ticket . . .

You want a villain? . . .
You got one . . .
It certainly wasn't . . .
ME!  The Nuclear Power Industry!!!
ACTING! on their behalf . . .
(bwah-hah-hah-hah)

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## Bunty

So is it well accepted as true that Silkwood's fatal car accident was set up?

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## Bill Robertson

> So is it well accepted as true that Silkwood's fatal car accident was set up?


I certainly believe it was. I even have a gut feeling, nothing I could ever prove though, that I worked with the person responsible during part of the time I worked for K-M.

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## micesu

Some useless trivia, the son of the Silkwood family attorney that helped get the family a large financial settlement is a starting offensive lineman at OU. Nice guy and nice family.

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## bombermwc

Well regardless of what Hollywood did to the story, i actually liked the movie. So while i know a lot of it is crap, it's at least still entertaining.

Sort of like The China Syndrome. EXTREMELY unlikely to ever really happen that way, but hey, still a good movie....a bit cheesey, but good.

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## Spartan

> I certainly believe it was. I even have a gut feeling, nothing I could ever prove though, that I worked with the person responsible during part of the time I worked for K-M.


Oh wow. This is really dark OKC history, IMO.

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## decepticobra

The story of Karen Silkwood is timeless, especially here in Oklahoma. I recently watched a documentary on Netflix "Mysteries at the Museum" and an episode revisited her story...especially that her actual purse is on display at The Museum of The Gulf Coast in Port Arthur, TX. ....I searched on here and found an informative thread from 2006 which is now closed. I've watched the movie, and always Karen lived in some house in Crescent (from what the movie depicts)...but someone was saying she also had an apartment just east of UCO. ...Ive also always wondered where she's buried at. .....and with  sooo many years now gone by, I wish this cold case could be formally reopened.....especially given the advent of new advances in forensic technology that could unravel possible new leads in finding out information previously unknown.

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## Mel

Karen Gay Silkwood (1946 - 1974) - Find A Grave Memorial

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## RadicalModerate

> The story of Karen Silkwood is timeless, especially here in Oklahoma. I recently watched a documentary on Netflix "Mysteries at the Museum" and an episode revisited her story...especially that her actual purse is on display at The Museum of The Gulf Coast in Port Arthur, TX. ....I searched on here and found an informative thread from 2006 which is now closed. I've watched the movie, and always Karen lived in some house in Crescent (from what the movie depicts)...but someone was saying she also had an apartment just east of UCO. ...Ive also always wondered where she's buried at. .....and with  sooo many years now gone by, I wish this cold case could be formally reopened.....especially given the advent of new advances in forensic technology that could unravel possible new leads in finding out information previously unknown.


Yup. And now we have Ebola Unleashed.

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## Questor

Wow, 40 years next month.

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## cxl144

I've been told that the area of Highway 74 where the Silkwood "accident" occurred was covered with asphalt and restriped the day after the accident. Might be an urban legend though.

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## bombermwc

CX, if it were true, then you should find that part of ODOT that works that fast, and have them work elsewhere in the state....sounds like bull to me. Conspiracists love stories like this, but knowing people that worked in this case, the evil empire KM was made out to be, just doesn't add up with the science of it. Stories like this start from threads of truth, so I'm sure there were things going on that maybe weren't up to snuff. But just remember that it is a movie, and being such, it's quite stretched to make it sell better. She was far from being a "well liked" person among the employees too.

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## RadicalModerate

> CX, if it were true, then you should find that part of ODOT that works that fast, and have them work elsewhere in the state....sounds like bull to me. Conspiracists love stories like this, but knowing people that worked in this case, the evil empire KM was made out to be, just doesn't add up with the science of it. Stories like this start from threads of truth, so I'm sure there were things going on that maybe weren't up to snuff. But just remember that it is a movie, and being such, it's quite stretched to make it sell better. *She was far from being a "well liked" person among the employees too*.


Having met her roommate, in real life, a long, long time ago, I would have to aver that your perception of the situation is fairly close to right . . . in the sense of accurate/correct.

Can you imagine how confusing this all would have been had there been cellphones texting in traffic on narrow, two lane highways?

It would have been nearly as confounding as . . . Renegade/Rogue Ebola patient bicycling through a park with all the newshounds gathered to record the event.

Well . . . wouldn't it?

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## ljbab728

> Having met her roommate, in real life, a long, long time ago, I would have to aver that your perception of the situation is fairly close to right . . . in the sense of accurate/correct.
> 
> Can you imagine how confusing this all would have been had there been cellphones texting in traffic on narrow, two lane highways?
> 
> It would have been nearly as confounding as . . . Renegade/Rogue Ebola patient bicycling through a park with all the newshounds gathered to record the event.
> 
> Well . . . wouldn't it?


That sounds much too dangerous to me.  Someone might get hurt.

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## RadicalModerate

> I've been told that the area of Highway 74 where the Silkwood "accident" occurred was covered with asphalt and restriped the day after the accident. Might be an urban legend though.


Not too late to redecorate for Halloween . . . is it?
There is no "area" of Highway 74. It was a culvert. To the left . . . And it glows to this very day.
(geez, louise)

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## RadicalModerate

> That sounds much too dangerous to me.  Someone might get hurt.


What do you mean, might? =)

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## Buffalo Bill

40 years ago today.

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## traxx

KWTV 9 has been teasing a piece that they're doing on Karen Silkwood tonight at 10. I'm gonna try to remember to DVR it. I don't know how indepth it'll be, though, if it's just a regular news piece during the 10 o'clock news.

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