# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Norman >  Finally, New Retail in UNP!

## G.Walker

I was driving through UNP on my lunch break today and noticed new store being built adjacent to left side of KOHLS, not sure what it is though? Anybody know?

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## Mr T

Well, the Transcript sez there will be a Dollar Tree and a Discount Tire.  I am underwhelmed.

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## ChargerAg

I would be excited about a discount tire.   A dollar tree not so much

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## Soonerman

Dollar Tree seriously?

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## rcjunkie

I guess in Oklahoma, Dollar Tree and Discount Tire are considered "upscale shopping".

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## Kerry

Here in Jax we have a Dollar Tree in the St. Johns Town Center but it is closer to the Target than it is to the 'upsale' stores.  As for discount tire, you would be hard pressed to argure that anything with the word 'discount' in the name as being upscale.  At least try to get a Pep Boys out of the deal if you need to have an auto service provider.

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## rcjunkie

> Here in Jax we have a Dollar Tree in the St. Johns Town Center but it is closer to the Target than it is to the 'upsale' stores.  As for discount tire, you would be hard pressed to argure that anything with the word 'discount' in the name as being upscale.  At least try to get a Pep Boys out of the deal if you need to have an auto service provider.


Norman could use a tire store/auto parts/auto repair shop on the West side of town, but this area is not the appropriate place. There's even talk that Bob Moore is interested in moving his Cadillac Dealership to this area, which I also find inappropriate.

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## dmoor82

None of this to ME is good news,but development is development!I guess?

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## flintysooner

Considering the fact that retail development has never yet emerged from the recession and further that we are already well into a second leg of a new recession any new development is a testament to how much better things are here in Oklahoma.

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## king183

> Well, the Transcript sez there will be a Dollar Tree and a Discount Tire.  I am underwhelmed.


Please tell me this is a joke.  This project is becoming more of a disaster each day.

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## Soonerman

I figure Macy's would open in UNP when the lifestyle center comes about.

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## rcjunkie

> Please tell me this is a joke.  This project is becoming more of a disaster each day.


This is not a joke, it was in the Norman Transcript and Norman Metro Section of the Daily Oklahoman last week.

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## rcjunkie

> I figure Macy's would open in UNP when the lifestyle center comes about.


Macy's, as well as several other name stores, however, according to a recent article, the Lifestyle Center is on hold for probably a few years, which means that it most likely won't happen.

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## flintysooner

Any new development has to be done by a retailer who can build out of its own cash or is so financially sound that either the developer or the tenant can secure financing.  In the latter case someone is still going to have to put in at least 40% cash equity.  That leaves almost no practical candidates right now.

And that does not take into account the deteriorating capacity of consumers to support a retail appetite which soon will be made much, much worse.

Retailers especially will be forced to hunker down in survival mode.

However our local situation is so much better than most of the country that we have a good shot at getting what few opportunities might become available.  

Pretty dismal prospects all the same.

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## Soonerman

> Macy's, as well as several other name stores, however, according to a recent article, the Lifestyle Center is on hold for probably a few years, which means that it most likely won't happen.


If it doesn't thats a shame because Macy's would be a very nice add in Norman especially if it's a full line Macy's store with furniture.

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## dismayed

Back when the Macy's in Crossroads Mall closed I had heard that Macy's was definitely going to open up in UNP at some point.  The Crossroads location was the only one in the southern half of the metro area, and was the only one that had furniture sales.  From the rumors I heard it seemed to me like it was a done deal at the time, but now with all the time that has passed and the state of the economy... who knows.

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## Soonerman

If legacy park ever gets off the ground Do any of you think that Dick's Sporting Goods would open up there with Academy being right there?

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## Spartan

I don't think Academy was ever originally intended to go in there. Academy is kind of the Dollar Tree of sports stores, and I think these developers are panicking to keep their project alive and have settled from crap, although aside from Target and the hotel it honestly never really got above crap to begin with. Especially considering that we're financing it with the TIF. This project is likely doomed now that they replaced Dick's (which was originally planned) with Academy, replaced other tenants that bailed with Dollar Tree and Discount Tire, and other garbage.

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## acumpton

Wow, have you ever shopped at an Academy before?

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## rcjunkie

> Wow, have you ever shopped at an Academy before?


It's obvious the he/she hasn't, The Academy and Dicks carry the same, identical product lines. I've shopped both stores and always find the prices at the Academy to be lower.

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## Soonerman

> It's obvious the he/she hasn't, The Academy and Dicks carry the same, identical product lines. I've shopped both stores and always find the prices at the Academy to be lower.


Yes that is true. Not to mention the Norman Academy stays pretty busy. So they must be doing something right.

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## Spartan

Academy is the Wal-Mart of big box sporting goods stores. Dick's or Gander Mountain or Scheel's would be your Target equivalent. Then REI would be your Nordstrom's equivalent. And then of course everyone knows Bass Pro and Cabela's, Cabela's being the top of the totem pole.

I have shopped at all of these stores. I despite and hate Academy, and that's all you really get around OKC except for the Bass Pro, which is more of an outdoors place and less of a sporting goods place.

Swapping Dick's for Academy is like swapping Target for Wal-Mart, or probably a better example would be swapping Costco (which is far superior and which OK has none of) for Wal-Mart or Sam's Club.

I'm guess that is 3 people defending what a far cry this project has become from what was originally promised to tax payers..

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## abrcr99

Wow, I don't post often at all, but seriously?  Comparing DICKS's Sporting Goods to Academy??  That's like comparing JC Penny and Nordstroms.  From what I have seen DICK's is usually an anchor store in Life Style Centers and Urban Retail Centers that have retail but don't have the usual retail anchors of a Dillards, Macy's etc.  UNP has turned into a joke, and they really shouldn't have BS'ed Norman about all this "high retail" crap.  I think Norman knew it wasn't going to get "high retail" like Nordstroms, AX, Crate and Barrell, etc.  But with hearing things like Dick's Sporting Goods I bet they had some nice expectations.  I bet you can't find a DICK's in a retail center that doesn't have Bebe, Restoration Hardware, Urban Outfitters, Anthroplogie, and other nice retail surrounding it.

I am not from Norman but I was going to OU when all this was happening and while it obviously wasn't going to as urban as they made it sound, it did sound pretty cool for Norman considering all they have is that crappy Sooner Mall.  Norman got dooped by these people and I have no idea what that area will ever look like.  They should stop the TIF for this load of crap.

At least in Tulsa when they were building Tulsa HIlls they branded it for what it was.  There was never any jazz about some fancy new retail center courting IKEA, Costco and Dicks sporting goods.  Just another run of the mill shopping center for an area of town that needed run of the mill shopping.

I am not even from Norman or Oklahoma but, OU was my home and it makes me sick to think about what this was supposed to be and what it has turned out to be.

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## dismayed

I don't understand how Norman or the metro for that matter can't support an A|X, Urban Outfitters, Crate & Barrel, and so on.  I find the whole thing quite sad.

So I have noticed that in all of these newspaper articles the same name, Stanton Nelson, keeps popping up.  Supposedly he's a partner or one of the developers of UNP.

When I Google that name, the only thing that keeps turning up time and again is a guy by that name who graduated from OU and is now an executive for local Graymark Healthcare.  Is this person one and the same?  It is curious that there is not an architect or designer who is serving as a public face for the UNP development.  Actually, seeing that and seeing that "University Town Center" is managing the whole thing makes me wonder who on earth is really running the show, if anyone of note.  That might help explain what has become a rather odd development.

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## ljbab728

> I am not from Norman but I was going to OU when all this was happening and while it obviously wasn't going to as urban as they made it sound, it did sound pretty cool for Norman considering all they have is that crappy Sooner Mall.


I grew up in Norman and remember what shopping options were available well before "that crappy Sooner Mall" was built.  I'm not arguing with your other points but Sooner Mall was a major change in shopping habits for Norman.  We always went to OKC for shopping when I was a child.

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## ljbab728

> I don't understand how Norman or the metro for that matter can't support an A|X, Urban Outfitters, Crate & Barrel, and so on.  I find the whole thing quite sad.


The problem isn't that Norman or the Metro can't support those retailers.  The problem is that in the current economic climate it's extremely difficult to convince national retailers to take chances on new or unproven areas.

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## Spartan

> Wow, I don't post often at all, but seriously?  Comparing DICKS's Sporting Goods to Academy??  That's like comparing JC Penny and Nordstroms.  From what I have seen DICK's is usually an anchor store in Life Style Centers and Urban Retail Centers that have retail but don't have the usual retail anchors of a Dillards, Macy's etc.  UNP has turned into a joke, and they really shouldn't have BS'ed Norman about all this "high retail" crap.  I think Norman knew it wasn't going to get "high retail" like Nordstroms, AX, Crate and Barrell, etc.  But with hearing things like Dick's Sporting Goods I bet they had some nice expectations.  I bet you can't find a DICK's in a retail center that doesn't have Bebe, Restoration Hardware, Urban Outfitters, Anthroplogie, and other nice retail surrounding it.
> 
> I am not from Norman but I was going to OU when all this was happening and while it obviously wasn't going to as urban as they made it sound, it did sound pretty cool for Norman considering all they have is that crappy Sooner Mall.  Norman got dooped by these people and I have no idea what that area will ever look like.  They should stop the TIF for this load of crap.
> 
> At least in Tulsa when they were building Tulsa HIlls they branded it for what it was.  There was never any jazz about some fancy new retail center courting IKEA, Costco and Dicks sporting goods.  Just another run of the mill shopping center for an area of town that needed run of the mill shopping.
> 
> I am not even from Norman or Oklahoma but, OU was my home and it makes me sick to think about what this was supposed to be and what it has turned out to be.


I agree with everything you just said. You said what needed to be said, especially for people who think Academy is just as good as Dick's. You talk about how Norman got duped by these people, and that's very true--but keep in mind that the OU Foundation is who is behind this. I am just at a complete lack of understanding how or why the OU Foundation, which is supposed to care about the Norman community, could do this. And the flack over Legacy Park is pretty funny too--of course the developers, who ALREADY got a TIF for infrastructure and for the hotel and the construction of the park, want to then "gift" the park to the city (which is paying for it in a roundabout way anyway) just so the City will do maintenance of the park, which of course, there will be a contract for that too. 

Other developers should pay close attention to find out the secret of how to get the city to build a park in the middle of your lousy strip mall.

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## cas

I'm very dissapointed in both of these two stores.  Dollar Tree...really?  I also don't want to see a tire store or any other automotive repair/maintenance facility in the middle of this project.  I can't imagine what might be next!

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## acumpton

Does anyone know when the Dollar Tree is projected to be opened?

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## Jesseda

its funny how moore wasnt even trying for upscale shopping, but the 19th street area has better store then the unp and moore wasnt even trying for that lol

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## Mr T

Nothing Mayor Rosenthal has done in Norman is funny or successful or money-making or sustainable.  The only reason she won a second time is because Boren got out the minions at the last minute.  Ezell was SO winning.  A republican wealthy west-side lawyer was winning, in Norman, because she is so very bad.  The Foundation was committed for 29 million and they needed out of the deal.  Ezell would have made them pay.  Boren made phone calls.

Right after she won the first time on the "green crunchy" platform she failed the Food Stamp Challenge and she thought it was funny.  She spent 3 days worth of "food stamps" at the farmers' market on "delicious Stratford peaches - I couldn't resist!"  Of course, at the time farmers markets did not accept food stamps, and actual poor people could not have purchased those delicious peaches.

She spent the last three days eating donated food intended for ACTUAL poor people at Food For Friends.  Begin as you mean to go on - that is what she has done, for sure.  But, she said it was a great experience!

Right after OU bagged out on the TIF money they spent millions renovating a castle in Italy so OU students would have a safe, American dorm experience.  A - that is wrong.  Foreign exchange is to see other people, not live in an ersatz American dorm.  B - if you owe me 29 million dollars I do NOT want to hear that your left pocket is empty and the money in the right pocket is for your other expenditures.  God did not make that law.  Pay what you owe.  

She had "no idea" that grant-writing was so "complicated" when the economy fell apart and they were giving away money for shovel-ready train plans.  Haven't we been talking for 35 years about returning the Interurban?  How could we not be ready?  Never fear, she said it is a Good Thing, a wake-up call, so we will be ready next time.  Next time what??  Next time the economy is so bad they are giving away money?  Is that really to be desired?

Why do you think the "newspaper" dumped the forum and does not allow comments?  Sure, it says "to add a comment click here"  but it almost never gets posted.  Look for yourself!  Look at all of the articles about Sardis Lake and the two recent elections - look at anything - look for comments.  Do you think no-one cares?  Commenting is a waste of oxygen!  The "editorials" are usually from out-of-town, yay Valdosta.  If Andy ever does write it is about riding bicycles or about the good old days before air-conditioning.

What you see and what is real are two different things in Norman.  I think it is starting to catch up with the mayor.  I hoist my beer at her in the evening when she drives by - she is Not Happy.  Too bad "we" just reelected the mayor, and by default, David Boren. He isn't happy just ruling his small pond, he has to rule the City and the "newspaper."

Don't get me started on the party houses and all the new police and the new library, because I will tell you, and I talk a lot about local politics. (smiley face!)

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## Superhyper

I get the general sense that they dumped the forums and restrict the comments because the people using both are crass impolite people. Look at newsok.com's comments. It's like finding the sewer gutter of humanity. Only youtube surpasses it regularly.

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## progressiveboy

Well sad news for Norman. Bummer. It looks like Texas wins again! It appears that UNP will not be building that office building for Petco in UNP. It is rather sad that Oklahoma continually loses out to Texas. I guess Oklahoma likes it that way. (Sarcasm)



http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/ne...er-dallas.html

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## Mr T

Well, I have nothing to say.  I'm one of the crass, impolite sewer-people (cleverly disguised as a long-time Norman resident.)  God forbid we sewer-people should dare to discuss local politics.  We exist to pay taxes and shut our mouths, right?  I thought it was interesting that right after the superhyper post the comments button disappeared.

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## G.Walker

> Well sad news for Norman. Bummer. It looks like Texas wins again! It appears that UNP will not be building that office building for Petco in UNP. It is rather sad that Oklahoma continually loses out to Texas. I guess Oklahoma likes it that way. (Sarcasm)
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/ne...er-dallas.html


I am not surprised, if City of Norman had Class A office space available (like they were supposed to) then we could have secured it. But thanks to bad management of city funds, and the city not being consistent, we lose. Hopefully the city can learn from this.

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## Easy180

> Well sad news for Norman. Bummer. It looks like Texas wins again! It appears that UNP will not be building that office building for Petco in UNP. It is rather sad that Oklahoma continually loses out to Texas. I guess Oklahoma likes it that way. (Sarcasm)
> 
> http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/ne...er-dallas.html


What a crushing loss

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## G.Walker

If Norman wasn't being stagnant on building University North Park Corporate Center, if it had of been built, we would have had a better chance. After reading another article, these were CORPORATE jobs, not customer service. Article stated that salaries would be averaging $57,000/yr what a loss to not only Norman, but the state of Oklahoma.

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## goldbug

Dollar Tree is open now...has been for a while.

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## G.Walker

Was in UNP doing some Christmas shopping and noticed new construction between Target and Kohls, its a free standing building, looks like a restaurant, but too small for a casual dining place, maybe a fast food place like Jack In The Box, anybody know what it could be? I know they mentioned building another Jack In The Box on westside of town?

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## ChargerAg

where is the discount tire supposed to be?   could that be it?

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## G.Walker

It's too small for discount tire...

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## blangtang

Last I read was a Zio's and a video game store were lined up

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## OUman

^You wouldn't happen to be talking about GameStop right? There already is one in Sooner Mall.

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## kevinpate

> Was in UNP doing some Christmas shopping and noticed new construction between Target and Kohls, its a free standing building, looks like a restaurant, but too small for a casual dining place, maybe a fast food place like Jack In The Box, anybody know what it could be? I know they mentioned building another Jack In The Box on westside of town?


I thought the JitB was supposed to go in on the east side of the road, across(ish) from Target.  I could be mistaken though.

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## progressiveboy

> I thought the JitB was supposed to go in on the east side of the road, across(ish) from Target.  I could be mistaken though.


 I heard it was going to be a Panda Express????

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## j7m7l7

http://normantranscript.com/headline...ity-North-Park 

Looks like a combo of many of the stores/restaurants mentioned

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## kevinpate

Highlights, for those who don't tend to click links:

New 20,000 sf strip mall on east side of 24th in UNP.  
Seven business slots, of which six have leases signed. 
These include Zio's, Game Stop, a family photography shop, and three others not named in the article.

Also in UNP, ground has already been broken on a Panda Express.

Sales tax revenue over past 4 years has been about 14.5M.  Ad valorm is about 1.5M annually, with 1/2 going to the TIF

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## Soonerman

I wonder if they are ever going to get that Lifestyle Center built?

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## ChargerAg

that panda express doesn't make any sense.   Why would they build it right next to Pei Wei?

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## dismayed

I found it interesting that the article says they have generated about $14.5 million in tax revenues since 2006, but then goes on to say the city still owes the OU Foundation $14.5 million, presumably for the land.  So that would mean what, an 8-year break even on the land if all funds went into paying off that debt, which they probably won't, so what let's say half and go with 15 years maybe?  Yes UNP is adding to the quality of life, but I am not sure that it can be called a money-maker for the city.

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## Kerry

Too bad all this money and effort wasn't applied to downtown Norman with a streetcar linking it to the OU campus.  Oh well.

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## G.Walker

> Too bad all this money and effort wasn't applied to downtown Norman with a streetcar linking it to the OU campus.  Oh well.


Why would they put a street car linking downtown Norman to campus, no one lives in downtown Norman? Moreover, surrounding neighborhoods around the centre of downtown Norman are low income. Also, the majority of students and professors who attend or work at OU live within a 2-3 radius. So I don't see how a streetcar linking from downtown to OU campus would be beneficial. I think the current OUCart system works very well for commuters.

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## OUman

> I think the current OUCart system works very well for commuters.


Only if you have enough spare time to go on a Norman tour, change buses at the "hub" (a.k.a. OU Campus) and then take a another Norman tour to finally get where you wanted to go in the first place. Or, if your origin and destination happens to be in the "zone" of the bus routes.

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## ljbab728

> Why would they put a street car linking downtown Norman to campus, no one lives in downtown Norman? Moreover, surrounding neighborhoods around the centre of downtown Norman are low income. Also, the majority of students and professors who attend or work at OU live within a 2-3 radius. So I don't see how a streetcar linking from downtown to OU campus would be beneficial. I think the current OUCart system works very well for commuters.


I agree.  While having a street car might be a nice luxury, downtown Norman is within easy walking distance of the campus.  It would serve little purpose and get little use.

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## acumpton

Anyone know what they are building now across from Target?

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## kevinpate

> Anyone know what they are building now across from Target?


See post 47 here, and add in a IBC bank.  The IBC at NW corner of W Main and 24th NW will close once the new location open on the NE side of 24th NW, just north of Robinson.

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## acumpton

I knew there was an IBC going over there, but there is also a large structure going on further down. That's the one I am referring to.

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## ChargerAg

Maybe it is the Discount Tire that was mentioned at one time?

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## BG918

> Too bad all this money and effort wasn't applied to downtown Norman with a streetcar linking it to the OU campus.  Oh well.


I still think leave UNP as a big box retail center and then build a more urban lifestyle center in downtown Norman along Main between Flood and Park, or along University in Campus Corner.

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## kevinpate

Despite everything built or in progress, I rarely get over there.  I'll try to make a point to go and look around this weekend.

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## venture

> I still think leave UNP as a big box retail center and then build a more urban lifestyle center in downtown Norman along Main between Flood and Park, or along University in Campus Corner.


Yeah would agree with this. Most of the big chains are going to UNP, but should definitely still be able to do the previously promised higher end stuff in downtown and to Campus Corner. Norman should be more than capable of supporting something like that. It also helps improve quality of life for the rest of us and continues to make Norman attractive for new businesses to move in or existing ones to expand.

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## UGABulldawg

Norman is starting to be a player. We still need to loosen up so we can stop losing out on businesses to Moore. The Warren, Buffalo Wild Wings, and 5 Guys Burgers and Fries were all supposed to build in Norman but the city lost out to Moore. We have got to make it easier to do business and start business in this town.

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## Soonerman

I sure wish Dick's Sporting Goods would open in Norman maybe not at UNP though.

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## Jersey Boss

> Norman is starting to be a player. We still need to loosen up so we can stop losing out on businesses to Moore. The Warren, Buffalo Wild Wings, and 5 Guys Burgers and Fries were all supposed to build in Norman but the city lost out to Moore. We have got to make it easier to do business and start business in this town.


The Warren would have been a great addition, 5 Guys and BWW, not so much. Neither offers anything we don't already have.

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## okcfollower

> The Warren would have been a great addition, 5 Guys and BWW, not so much. Neither offers anything we don't already have.


Isnt there still a Five Guys opening in the new building being built?

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## oakhollow

Zios opening date has been moved back to November from September.  Was told by the manager at the Meridian location yesterday at lunch.

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## ChargerAg

that whole place seems to have slowed down.    the discount tire was anounced along time ago but still nothing.

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