# OKCpedia > Businesses & Employers >  Eight Twenty Solar

## WheelerD Guy

Couldnt read the article b/c it was buried behind the DOKs expensive paywall.

But it sounds like these guys (https://www.eighttwenty.com/) are thinking hard about a Bricktown HQ. Probably a small lease deal, Id guess.

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## shawnw

I already posted about this in the bricktown thread but Pete feel free to move those over here...

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## BoulderSooner

> Couldn’t read the article b/c it was buried behind the DOK’s expensive paywall.
> 
> But it sounds like these guys (https://www.eighttwenty.com/) are thinking hard about a Bricktown HQ. Probably a small lease deal, I’d guess.


see here 

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.p...84#post1174784

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## David

This is a big enough thing for Bricktown and the JFK neighborhood that it deserves a thread of its own.

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## G.Walker

Referenced from the article by Steve Lackmeyer https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...wn/8063331002/

The development plan submitted Friday to the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority proposes a three-story, *15,000-square-foot office building* to be designed by architect Rand Elliott, whose previous works includes Oklahoma Contemporary, Classen Curve, and much of the boathouse district along the Oklahoma River. 

A* 20,000-square-foot warehouse* would be built next to the office building. The EightTwenty plan proposes a building constructed of architectural concrete and glass with exterior solar protection via architectural shading and an iconic facade facing west toward downtown and I-235.

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## G.Walker

Kind of a weird location for an office building, not sure the intentions for that, when there are plenty of vacant lots downtown. 

But I imagine that piece of land was pretty cheap, lol.

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## T. Jamison

I can see the benefit of the location considering you don't have to pass downtown design review since it is an office/warehouse development.

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## Midtowner

I wanted to give a s/o to this company. When we bought our new home, we decided we'd be going to solar in order to be able to power things during the next ice storm and so we wouldn't have to absorb the costs of the commodities market. We're getting a solar array with a backup battery installed. They have financing, so what I pay is roughly what the utility bill used to be. We're going with 1 or 2 electric vehicles in the next few years, so buying gas won't be a thing I worry about anymore. Should be pretty great. 

I took several bids and ended up going with these guys because they were tens of thousands lower than the next bid.

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## BoulderSooner

> I wanted to give a s/o to this company. When we bought our new home, we decided we'd be going to solar in order to be able to power things during the next ice storm and so we wouldn't have to absorb the costs of the commodities market. We're getting a solar array with a backup battery installed. They have financing, so what I pay is roughly what the utility bill used to be. We're going with 1 or 2 electric vehicles in the next few years, so buying gas won't be a thing I worry about anymore. Should be pretty great. 
> 
> I took several bids and ended up going with these guys because they were tens of thousands lower than the next bid.


what tech/company  are you using for your battery backup ??

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## jedicurt

> I wanted to give a s/o to this company. When we bought our new home, we decided we'd be going to solar in order to be able to power things during the next ice storm and so we wouldn't have to absorb the costs of the commodities market. We're getting a solar array with a backup battery installed. They have financing, so what I pay is roughly what the utility bill used to be. We're going with 1 or 2 electric vehicles in the next few years, so buying gas won't be a thing I worry about anymore. Should be pretty great. 
> 
> I took several bids and ended up going with these guys because they were tens of thousands lower than the next bid.


when they finish the install can you give us an update? i would like to know how it turned out

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## catch22

> I wanted to give a s/o to this company. When we bought our new home, we decided we'd be going to solar in order to be able to power things during the next ice storm and so we wouldn't have to absorb the costs of the commodities market. We're getting a solar array with a backup battery installed. They have financing, so what I pay is roughly what the utility bill used to be. We're going with 1 or 2 electric vehicles in the next few years, so buying gas won't be a thing I worry about anymore. Should be pretty great. 
> 
> *I took several bids and ended up going with these guys because they were tens of thousands lower than the next bid.*


Did this not concern you? I know I get nervous when a bid comes in significantly under the average.

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## Midtowner

> Did this not concern you? I know I get nervous when a bid comes in significantly under the average.


Not really. They all use the same equipment. Either Enphase or Tesla. In my case, Enphase. And after the first day being able to monitor production, I'm sending enough to the rid that I'm a net-producer now, so my power bill will be a $13 per month connection fee.

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## Midtowner

> when they finish the install can you give us an update? i would like to know how it turned out


It turned out great. Just this morning at 10:30a, I've already produced 10KW and consumed 7, sending 3 back to the grid which I can draw from tonight. Battery is nearly fully recharged.

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## Midtowner

> what tech/company  are you using for your battery backup ??


Enphase. It's a 10KWh battery. It's enough to mostly get me through the night while still maintaining a 30% charge. If it's not enough, I can always install a gas generator. The system comes prewired for it.

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## Midtowner

I will say something about EightTwenty's service. It was outstanding. After they finished their last day of wiring, about 30 minutes after they left, I noticed one of my breakers was stuck. Turns out when your house is wired, there are two bars in your junction box--one for ground, one for neutral. Unless you install solar, those both mean the same thing. One of my breakers was wired wrong. They had a crew back at my house within 20 minutes and it was fixed same day.

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## BoulderSooner

> Enphase. It's a 10KWh battery. It's enough to mostly get me through the night while still maintaining a 30% charge. If it's not enough, I can always install a gas generator. The system comes prewired for it.


Good deal. Thanks for the info.   We are getting ready to build and want to include something like this

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## Roger S

Happen to know if they do work all over the state? Walls are finally going up on the farm house near Ardmore and we are going solar and possibly wind too. Was looking at Generac but still in the shopping phase on it.

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## Midtowner

> Happen to know if they do work all over the state? Walls are finally going up on the farm house near Ardmore and we are going solar and possibly wind too. Was looking at Generac but still in the shopping phase on it.


Yeah, they are expanding into multiple states now. Ardmore would likely be no problem.

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## Roger S

> Yeah, they are expanding into multiple states now. Ardmore would likely be no problem.


Thanks... checked out their website after I saw this and will be setting up an appointment with them.

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## Midtowner

> Thanks... checked out their website after I saw this and will be setting up an appointment with them.


If you do end up going with them, shoot me a PM, they do pay a respectable referral fee.

Having had it up and running now for a few days, all days in November thus far have been clear, so no clue how it does in cloud cover. My average bill was $250/month. My payment is $258/month + $13 to OG&E. You take into account the average increase in $/KkWh of 3% per year and the math gets real reasonable real fast. 

We have between 30-40 panels on our roof, yesterday, we produced 52.4 kWh and consumed 27.3. We sent 30 kWh to the grid. When it got dark, my battery discharged to 30%, so there'd be some in reserve in case of emergencies (with the generation of microinverters we went with, you have to power them before you can generate power--the microinverters they're coming out with right now (gen 8 for enphase) can be self powered). 

The battery is smart in that enphase monitors the National Weather Service, and if there is weather expected, the battery charges to 100% and you draw from the grid that day in anticipation of a service interruption. 

I'd personally be wary of installing anything that uses natural gas anymore. Any product where you're not protected from a 100x price hike in the middle of a disaster is probably something you should avoid exposing yourself to.

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## Roger S

> If you do end up going with them, shoot me a PM, they do pay a respectable referral fee.


Will do.... We are looking at possibly going both wind and solar powered.... Our farm is called Whirling S Homestead and there's a good reason we chose Whirling as part of the name.

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## Mott

Very good thread, enjoyed looking at Enphase’s website.  What about hail damaging the solar panels.  And any idea on the life of your storage batteries.

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## Midtowner

> Very good thread, enjoyed looking at Enphase’s website.  What about hail damaging the solar panels.  And any idea on the life of your storage batteries.


The batteries are guaranteed for 25 years to be at 85% (8.5kWh). My homeowner's went up a little bit, but I'm covered for weather damage. I'm told by EightTwenty that a lot fo the panels damaged in the Norman hail storm a bit ago were cracked, but production was unaffected. It was just cosmetic in many cases (I can't speak for whether a cracked panel is going to remain water tight and eventually result in a fire though).

After going through the process, I'm honestly surprised that we don't see panels on a lot more houses. If homeowners took more responsibility in generating their own power on a large scale, a real dent could be made in carbon emissions.

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## Plutonic Panda

^^^^ cost? This is personal so I get if you don’t want to share but how much did you spend on it? I’m looking at helping my grandparents put a Tesla solar roof on their house and the cost was almost 100k. Not exactly chump change.

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## shawnw

Their site shows no money down options (e.g. loans)

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## Midtowner

> ^^^^ cost? This is personal so I get if you don’t want to share but how much did you spend on it? I’m looking at helping my grandparents put a Tesla solar roof on their house and the cost was almost 100k. Not exactly chump change.


Nothing close to that. Get multiple bids. I took three. I had two of them coming in around $70K with EightTwenty coming in at tens of thousands less. I can understand the philosophy--this stuff is in high demand and if they can bank tens of thousands in profit per job, good on them.

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## Midtowner

> Their site shows no money down options (e.g. loans)


Yeah, I did a twenty year loan. The payment is right around what my average electric bill is right now. The neat part about it though is that as the price of energy increases (average about 3% per year), my payment stays the same. The deal makes sense if you're going to stay in the same place for a long time. This makes great sense for my family, we have a school age child, we're close to other family. Neighborhood schools are great. I anticipate being here 20 years. 

I did hear from my insurance company. They increased my structure value by north of six figures for these panels, I'm having them get in touch with the company so replacement cost is what's considered, so that's maybe going to be a cost.

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## Roger S

> Yeah, I did a twenty year loan. .


What kind of interest are they offering?

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## Bellaboo

> Yeah, I did a twenty year loan. The payment is right around what my average electric bill is right now. The neat part about it though is that as the price of energy increases (average about 3% per year), my payment stays the same. The deal makes sense if you're going to stay in the same place for a long time. This makes great sense for my family, we have a school age child, we're close to other family. Neighborhood schools are great. I anticipate being here 20 years. 
> 
> I did hear from my insurance company. They increased my structure value by north of six figures for these panels, I'm having them get in touch with the company so 
> replacement cost is what's considered, so that's maybe going to be a cost.


My sister had a nightmare scenario with their panels in Ft Worth last year. Big hail, big damage and had to wait on their solar provider to remove panels before roof replacement. Wasn't fun waiting on the solar panel crew. Took several months to resolve.

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## Midtowner

> My sister had a nightmare scenario with their panels in Ft Worth last year. Big hail, big damage and had to wait on their solar provider to remove panels before roof replacement. Wasn't fun waiting on the solar panel crew. Took several months to resolve.


That's one reason I chose an OKC based company.  I know the install is different from service after the sale, but when wiring the breaker box, there are two bars. When you go solar, everything has to be wired to ground OR neutral. When you're on the grid, everything can be wired to either bar. They had missed one breaker and the lights weren't coming on in the kid's bonus room upstairs. No big deal. I sent an email around 4PM. I had a crew there to fix it around 4:30 PM. 

I did visit with the crew about them servicing some of their Norman customers after the hail storm, so I imagine they're handling things pretty well. 

As far as a roof replacement, I don't know why your roofers couldn't just work around the panels. They're not spaced out, so the roof under them was protected from whatever happened.

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## Mott

> The batteries are guaranteed for 25 years to be at 85% (8.5kWh). My homeowner's went up a little bit, but I'm covered for weather damage. I'm told by EightTwenty that a lot fo the panels damaged in the Norman hail storm a bit ago were cracked, but production was unaffected. It was just cosmetic in many cases (I can't speak for whether a cracked panel is going to remain water tight and eventually result in a fire though).
> 
> After going through the process, I'm honestly surprised that we don't see panels on a lot more houses. If homeowners took more responsibility in generating their own power on a large scale, a real dent could be made in carbon emissions.


Yes it would, and it would change OG@Es power monopoly.  Back in the 1970s there was Barry Commoner, who advocated for every large building creating its own power, as well as electrifying the nations railroad, among other environmental ideas.  Its not just the burning of fossil fuels at generating plants, its the tremendous loss of electrons sending that power over the lines.

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## shawnw

The reality is, if every car on the road was electric tomorrow, we wouldn't have enough power generation or transmission capability to keep up. One way to help offset that as demand grows over time will be the growth/widespread adoption of residential and commercial solar projects. If I understand correctly, many of the things removed from the new infrastructure bill are going into the build back better bill, including clean energy incentives. Not sure of the details, but if there are residential incentives folks should jump on it.

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## Midtowner

There are already huge incentives. I am getting a (I think) 22% tax rebate. And many of our grid issues would be solved if the EV owners would generate their own power.

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## April in the Plaza

So basically 50-70k for an average system in OKC? For some reason, I thought the systems were far cheaper than that. Is it the battery backup that drives up the cost?

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## Midtowner

> So basically 50-70k for an average system in OKC? For some reason, I thought the systems were far cheaper than that. Is it the battery backup that drives up the cost?


The battery backup does increase the cost by about $13K for the first one, and then the price declines pretty quickly. I got the battery because my microinverters, which are kind of the brains behind each panel and each cell in the batterf require power to work, so that in the event of an outage, my panels would go down without the battery and I'd be as helpless as folks who are reliant on the grid. There are newer microinverters (I have 7+ gen, the new 8 gen) from enphase, probably everyone else too which don't require external power. 

The battery does require you to actively manage your power if you wanted it to work through the night. I've played around with my home devices and can get just my fridge and freezers powered and only draw .5kW per hour. That would easily get me through the night. I might be in trouble if the outage continues and it's overcast the next day. 

Still, in any event, I figure I'd be in a far better position with someone with no solar, I've got my bill locked in, when grid customers are going to see on average a 3%/year cost increase. And when it's paid off, I'll have free electrictity for the foreseeable future. I might have to replace some panels or add some down the line. I'd only recommend this if you're in a house you want to stay in forever as there is not really any solid information on how solar contributes to resale value, although I can tell you the rep I worked with at EightTwenty says they're working on getting that data.

And that cost is parts AND labor. Labor is significant as you have to have specially trained electricians crawling all over your roof and attic for the 4-5 days the install takes place. Skilled labor ain't cheap, but in the end, assuming we stay in this house, it'll be worth it.

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## Teo9969

How many sf is your home, if you don't mind me asking?

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## Midtowner

> How many sf is your home, if you don't mind me asking?


It's 3,000 sq. ft. We run 2 HVAC systems.

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## LakeEffect

> It's 3,000 sq. ft. We run 2 HVAC systems.


Hmmmmmm. My house is very similar.

I'm curious if they've tried any projects in Edmond proper. Edmond Electric has a strict-sounding solar policy which really feels anti-solar: 

Under the terms of Edmond Electrics wholesale power supply contract, Edmond can allow a maximum cumulative distributed generation capacity of one percent (1%) of Edmonds single hour peak load to be installed on its electric distribution system. This capacity is allocated on a first-come, first-served basis. If the cumulative generating capacity of solar systems reaches the maximum 1% of Edmonds single hour peak load, Edmond Electric cannot allow any new systems to be interconnected to our distribution system.

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## Midtowner

> Hmmmmmm. My house is very similar.
> 
> I'm curious if they've tried any projects in Edmond proper. Edmond Electric has a strict-sounding solar policy which really feels anti-solar: 
> 
> Under the terms of Edmond Electric’s wholesale power supply contract, Edmond can allow a maximum cumulative distributed generation capacity of one percent (1%) of Edmond’s single hour peak load to be installed on its electric distribution system. This capacity is allocated on a first-come, first-served basis. If the cumulative generating capacity of solar systems reaches the maximum 1% of Edmond’s single hour peak load, Edmond Electric cannot allow any new systems to be interconnected to our distribution system.


Yeah, I kind of hit the lottery. Edmond schools with OKC utilities. I'm also in a neighborhood with an HOA, but my house was here before the neighborhood was platted, so no covenants and restrictions to worry about.  The company knows what to expect from the utility companies. If that's what Edmond is doing, their grid is in no way ready for the future where there will be lots of people producing their own power. But that's not an uncommon problem. One of the big factors in Japanese companies being so far behind in the EV game is that there's no way their current grid could handle widespread EV use. 

The way I read that, they are going to allow only so many systems until solar hits 1% of their capacity, so if you're an early adopter and go solar right now, you might get in under the wire.

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## Pete

Update from the OKC Economic Development Trust:




> Site is very contaminated and we are working with the City’s Brownfield Program to identify ways to clean the site

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## Midtowner

> One of the big factors in Japanese companies being so far behind in the EV game is that there's no way their current grid could handle widespread EV use.


I reread this post from just 4 months ago. Man. That statement re Japan automakers falling behind aged poorly.

https://www.toyota.com/electrified/

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/43978/...ink-its-headed

https://automobiles.honda.com/future-cars/prologue

I just have to admire those Japanese companies. It appears the era of the EV snuck up on them a bit, but they're embracing it aggressively. If they just-as-aggressively work to put solar up on any surface they can, their grid can handle the new requirements.

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## king183

Midtowner, how are you still liking your panels over the winter? I'm considering adding some to my house and I keep hearing good things about EightTwenty.

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## Midtowner

> Midtowner, how are you still liking your panels over the winter? I'm considering adding some to my house and I keep hearing good things about EightTwenty.


They've worked out famously. If nothing else, I'm a lot more aware of which appliances use what. In this overcast weather we're having, it doesn't produce much. It does have a cool feature in that it automatically switched to battery full backup mode the day before the storms hit, so I've had a 10kW battery on standby were power to be interrupted. The way things have gone in this storm, I hear most outages are 3-4 hours and we wouldn't have noticed had we had an outage, aside from a push notification telling me I'm off the grid, if that was the case.

When it's sunny this winter, I've sent about 15-30kW more than I've used back to the grid. OG&E is taking their time getting the net metering installed, so that's just free electricity to OG&E right now. On a day like today with everyone home and running all of the things with very little sun, I'm probably going to import ~40-50kW. And had I the net meter installed, I would just be drawing against power I exported a few days ago. 

So there's a transition, but I do look forward to having it fully operational. I also look forward to dumping my ICE car for an EV in a few months, and not having to pay for gas anymore. One less thing.

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## Midtowner

I have to brag a little more on Eight Twenty. I think I've said before that they gave me a call shortly after installing the system and told me their design team and engineers had reviewed my panel output and that it was putting too much energy too fast in charging the battery array. They then, at their own expense, installed a separate combiner and separate meter receptacle, and directed a few panels away from the battery array. This will increase the battery's life substantially. 

We just had OG&E come out to install their bidirectional meters. I spoke with the installation tech on the doorbell cam yesterday. I was excited to see my new bidirectional meters installed when I got home and there was nothing there. (the bidirectional meter is how OG&E measures how much energy you send up the grid so they can give you credit for it).

I spoke briefly with Eight-Twenty this morning, and apparently, the guy whose job it is to install bidirectional meters has never once seen two meters. He didn't know what to do, so he did nothing so he could confer with his higher ups. Eight Twenty has been back in touch with OG&E, offering the advice of their engineering and design teams as to how this is or should be normal. 

So I can't be the only guy out there with a 14kW system and a battery array. This speaks volumes about both other companies and about Eight Twenty. These guys have completely gone above and beyond. There aren't a lot of companies who invest design and engineering hours in systems that are already paid for. And apparently there's only one company which would, at their own expense, install a whole new combiner system and pay several technicians for a half day installing it just to preserve a battery's life when I can guarantee I never would have noticed, and just taken the 'L' and probably just replaced the battery array early.

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## David

New coalition to host solar energy seminar May 10 at Belle Isle Library




> Oklahoma City residents and business owners interested in learning about the benefits of solar energy are invited to attend a free solar seminar offered by a new coalition led by the Citys Office of Sustainability and other local organizations called Solarize OKC.
> 
> The seminar will be held at 6:30 p.m. May 10 at Belle Isle Library, 5501 N. Villa Ave. Sign up www.solarizeOKC.com. Participants can watch the seminar virtually from the Solarize OKC Facebook page.
> 
> Seminar topics include the benefits of solar energy, opportunities to sign up for free property assessments, information about group-purchasing discounts, federal tax credit information and will feature remarks from Ward 2 Oklahoma City Councilperson James Cooper. Register for the event at https://www.eventbrite.com/e/solariz...s-330631125597.
> 
> Increasing education around solar energy is a policy recommendation in our sustainability plan, adaptokc, said City Councilperson Cooper. More solar activity in Oklahoma City creates quality local jobs, saves residents money, and supports local businesses with resilient power supplies. Im grateful Solarize OKCs inclusive program design ensures low and moderate-income residents have opportunities to reduce their homes electricity costs.
> 
> The Launch of Solarize OKC
> ...

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## king183

I just signed an agreement with EightTwenty to get solar on my home, so I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes. The experience thus far has been good.

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## Midtowner

> I just signed an agreement with EightTwenty to get solar on my home, so I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes. The experience thus far has been good.


Congratulations. They will not disappoint.

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## LocoAko

After learning about the Solarize OKC program and the discounts being offered to OKC residents we are now strongly considering making the plunge. Seems like too good (and a one-time) opportunity to pass up. At the very least we may at least get a consultation, which can't hurt.

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## Midtowner

Just checked my bill for May so far. $14.

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## jn1780

> That's one reason I chose an OKC based company.  I know the install is different from service after the sale, but when wiring the breaker box, there are two bars. When you go solar, everything has to be wired to ground OR neutral. When you're on the grid, everything can be wired to either bar. They had missed one breaker and the lights weren't coming on in the kid's bonus room upstairs. No big deal. I sent an email around 4PM. I had a crew there to fix it around 4:30 PM. 
> 
> I did visit with the crew about them servicing some of their Norman customers after the hail storm, so I imagine they're handling things pretty well. 
> 
> As far as a roof replacement, I don't know why your roofers couldn't just work around the panels. They're not spaced out, so the roof under them was protected from whatever happened.


Eventually, the panels would have to come off for a roof replacement. The roof is build as one unit. Maybe they will have to figure out a different way of separating roofing under panels from the rest of the roof.

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## shawnw

820 came by my workplace for an assessment yesterday. You can remove the panels individually. One of our buildings has a new roof and the other needs a roof update. I expressed concern and they said they would be ballast mounted to the roof and so removeable for roof work. However, he did say it would be best if they assisted with that to make sure things were reconnected properly.

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## Midtowner

> 820 came by my workplace for an assessment yesterday. You can remove the panels individually. One of our buildings has a new roof and the other needs a roof update. I expressed concern and they said they would be ballast mounted to the roof and so removeable for roof work. However, he did say it would be best if they assisted with that to make sure things were reconnected properly.


So far, they seem really committed to good service after the install. I recently (last week) had an issue where the grid in my area was going down and my battery couldn't handle both A/C units cycling on, so the power would fail for everything, come right back on, but as soon as the thermostats booted up and told the A/C to turn on, everything would fail again. At their expense, they're going to be installing a device which can automatically limit certain high-power consuming breakers from activating in the even the grid goes down.

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## Shuffinator

> Just checked my bill for May so far. $14.


Can I ask what your monthly cost for the panels are?

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## Midtowner

> Can I ask what your monthly cost for the panels are?


The payment is roughly what my electric bill was.  Maybe a little more, but I added a battery system. I'll also invest in a generator and maybe add some batteries in the future because I think it's important for anyone who can afford to be self sufficient to be self sufficient. Just look at Texas right now. We should all be taking steps right now to shield ourselves from the effects of a mismanaged grid, because that's what's coming.

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## jn1780

> 820 came by my workplace for an assessment yesterday. You can remove the panels individually. One of our buildings has a new roof and the other needs a roof update. I expressed concern and they said they would be ballast mounted to the roof and so removeable for roof work. However, he did say it would be best if they assisted with that to make sure things were reconnected properly.


I'm sure its not hard to disassemble, I would be concern 10, 15, 20 years down the road when everything is sun baked, and everything does not go back together as they should.  Hopefully they cover some of that cost.

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## Lafferty Daniel

> I'm sure its not hard to disassemble, I would be concern 10, 15, 20 years down the road when everything is sun baked, and everything does not go back together as they should.  Hopefully they cover some of that cost.


Not sure about eight twenty, but ADT Solar has a 25 year guarantee on their panels. So if something goes wrong 15 years later, it'll be under warranty and it won't cost the homeowner anything.

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## shawnw

Per the Solarize OKC presentation, there's a 25 year warranty by 820 and 30 year by the manufacture (they overlap, it's not consecutive). I talked to them after the presentation and they said the warranty covers up to golf ball sized hail, but that anything bigger than that is likely to cause huge damage which would end up being an insurance claim instead.

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## mkjeeves

> The payment is roughly what my electric bill was.  Maybe a little more, but I added a battery system. I'll also invest in a generator and maybe add some batteries in the future because I think it's important for anyone who can afford to be self sufficient to be self sufficient. Just look at Texas right now. We should all be taking steps right now to shield ourselves from the effects of a mismanaged grid, because that's what's coming.


How long is the finance term?

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## soonerguru

> How long is the finance term?


Same. I'm really interested in this.

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## king183

> How long is the finance term?


They offer several options. If I recall correctly, I think a 5, 7, 10, and 20 year term. There might have been others too. Some of them have origination fees, while others don’t. The estimated payment on the note, by the way, takes into account the federal tax credit you will get for installation of the solar power system by assuming you will put the credit toward the loan. In other words, if you get an $8000 federal tax credit, the bank assumes you’ll take that $8000 and pay it on the loan. This lowers the monthly payment. You don’t have to put the credit toward the loan, of course. If you don’t, then your monthly payment will increase to account for that. There are also no prepayment fees, so you can pay it all off whenever you want to. I intend to pay mine off within a year, so I chose the loan option with no origination fee.

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## W8N2SKI

Not sure if it is related to the building of Eight Twenty's office but trees were being cleared this morning to the east of the I-235/Sheridan Ave exit (small triangular plot between the two railroad ROWs)

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## April in the Plaza

> Their site shows no money down options (e.g. loans)


Every time I price out solar, its like a 10 year break-even period and even longer with batteries. Just doesnt seem like a great ROI unless residential kWh pricing increases by 200% or so.

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## Midtowner

> How long is the finance term?


I did the 20 year, but I will pay it off way sooner. At 3% though, it's hard to beat.

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## Pete

> Not sure if it is related to the building of Eight Twenty's office but trees were being cleared this morning to the east of the I-235/Sheridan Ave exit (small triangular plot between the two railroad ROWs)


Yes, that's where the announced their plans to build.

But thus far, they have not submitted anything for design approval or any sort of building permit.

I know the site was contaminated, so it might be just cleanup before they can start to move forward.

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## OKCRealtor

Definitely coming across these more frequently with clients & homes. Everyone should keep in mind that solar panels likely will have to be paid off at closing should you sell and make a move. If you're not in a position to do that or don't have the equity you're going to be in a tough spot. Case in point I have some past clients who recently added them this year, decided they wanted to sell & move back home and long story short had no idea they would have to still pay them off without any increase to the value of their property. Something to keep in mind if you don't plan on staying put for a very long time.

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## fortpatches

> Definitely coming across these more frequently with clients & homes. Everyone should keep in mind that solar panels likely will have to be paid off at closing should you sell and make a move. If you're not in a position to do that or don't have the equity you're going to be in a tough spot. Case in point I have some past clients who recently added them this year, decided they wanted to sell & move back home and long story short had no idea they would have to still pay them off without any increase to the value of their property. Something to keep in mind if you don't plan on staying put for a very long time.


Kinda surprised it doesn't increase property value. It would be more valuable to me. Like, if the property value increased 40k, over 30yrs at 7%, that's $267/mo - which, comparing OGE bills with a colleague who has solar, I would net $50/mo or so at that rate. Since it doesn't increase prop value, I would lean towards houses with solar to net a few hundred per month.

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## Midtowner

I have solar, and my discussions and research suggest that at some point in the near future, solar will factor in to the $/sq. ft. in a more predictable way, but there just aren't enough homes with this feature for there to be good comps for appraisers. And there are so many variables with any given solar installation that it's not so simple as checking the box, i.e., yes/no whether there is solar because there is a huge difference between a 5kwH system and a 20kWh system. Is there a battery or not? How old are the panels?

I would imagine that the industry as a whole is or at least should be putting together some sort of guidelines for appraisals, but even in some communities like Edmond (the Edmond Electric part), where they have a cap on solar power generation, what will it be worth to have a solar permit in a community where the production of solar power is capped?

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## OKCRealtor

> Kinda surprised it doesn't increase property value. It would be more valuable to me. Like, if the property value increased 40k, over 30yrs at 7%, that's $267/mo - which, comparing OGE bills with a colleague who has solar, I would net $50/mo or so at that rate. Since it doesn't increase prop value, I would lean towards houses with solar to net a few hundred per month.


Maybe a little for the right person/house but generally speaking a buyer isn't going to pony up an extra 20-40k to assume your solar panels. From that perspective it perhaps may make more sense. Take identical $200k houses side by side- would you pay $30k more for the one with solar?

That doesn't even begin to address the issue with appraisals as mentioned. Could it change down the line? Sure, but there's not enough of it out there yet IMO. The breakeven point on solar is a long long time. Average person moves too often for it to be a net positive.

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## Richard at Remax

As OKC Realtor said, I have seen that solar panels add little to no value when it comes to appraisals. It's more like "hey this house comes with solar panesl. that's cool I guess?"

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## king183

Hmm. I agree that the talking point for most people wouldn't be "hey this house comes with solar panels"; it's "hey, your monthly energy bill is $15 in this house."

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## Midtowner

> Maybe a little for the right person/house but generally speaking a buyer isn't going to pony up an extra 20-40k to assume your solar panels. From that perspective it perhaps may make more sense. Take identical $200k houses side by side- would you pay $30k more for the one with solar?
> 
> That doesn't even begin to address the issue with appraisals as mentioned. Could it change down the line? Sure, but there's not enough of it out there yet IMO. The breakeven point on solar is a long long time. Average person moves too often for it to be a net positive.


If you're representing the seller in that scenario and can't sell the house with solar for a little more or at least get them to choose your house over the non-solar house, you're bad at your job.

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## fortpatches

> Maybe a little for the right person/house but generally speaking a buyer isn't going to pony up an extra 20-40k to assume your solar panels. From that perspective it perhaps may make more sense. Take identical $200k houses side by side- would you pay $30k more for the one with solar?
> 
> That doesn't even begin to address the issue with appraisals as mentioned. Could it change down the line? Sure, but there's not enough of it out there yet IMO. The breakeven point on solar is a long long time. Average person moves too often for it to be a net positive.


Yes, I probably would pay $30k more for the one with solar panels, all else being equal. 
$200k for 30yr @ 7% ~$1,330/mo
$230k for 30yr @ 7% ~$1,530/mo

That $30k additional cost to my loan on a monthly basis would increase my monthly mortgage by ~$200 but decrease my monthly electrical usage by ~$350 right now, and electricity costs are only going to go up over the coming years. 
So, I'd effectively be keeping ~$150/mo more of my monthly income if I go for the house with Solar. 

Like, to put it another way:
200k house: $1,330/mo mortgage + $380/mo electric = ~$1,710
230k house: $1,530/mo mortgage + $30/mo electric = ~$1,560
$1,560 < $1,710 for basically the same product. 

If it were a 15yr, I would effectively be keeping ~$80/mo since the monthly difference increases as amortization term decreases.

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## chssooner

> Yes, I probably would pay $30k more for the one with solar panels, all else being equal. 
> $200k for 30yr @ 7% ~$1,330/mo
> $230k for 30yr @ 7% ~$1,530/mo
> 
> That $30k additional cost to my loan on a monthly basis would increase my monthly mortgage by ~$200 but decrease my monthly electrical usage by ~$350 right now, and electricity costs are only going to go up over the coming years. 
> So, I'd effectively be keeping ~$150/mo more of my monthly income if I go for the house with Solar. 
> 
> Like, to put it another way:
> 200k house: $1,330/mo mortgage + $380/mo electric = ~$1,710
> ...


Moot point. What can you get a mortgage for? No more than the appraised value. If solar panels don't add value via an appraisal, then the buyer is on the hook for that difference, and can then back out of a sale. Banks and mortgage companies aren't normally in the business of loaning more than they could sell a house for. So it comes down to whether those panels are truly worth the price, in terms of value. You can tell the buyer that they will save this and that, but as said above, most people aren't staying in a house long enough to make their money back. 

Just my opinion. It all comes down to your individual situation. But no appraiser is going to increase a home value because of the panels.

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## Midtowner

> Moot point. What can you get a mortgage for? No more than the appraised value. If solar panels don't add value via an appraisal, then the buyer is on the hook for that difference, and can then back out of a sale. Banks and mortgage companies aren't normally in the business of loaning more than they could sell a house for. So it comes down to whether those panels are truly worth the price, in terms of value. You can tell the buyer that they will save this and that, but as said above, most people aren't staying in a house long enough to make their money back. 
> 
> Just my opinion. It all comes down to your individual situation. But no appraiser is going to increase a home value because of the panels.


Youre assuming every loan is FHA with minimal down payment. Theres probably not a huge amount of entry level inventory with solar panels anyhow, so Im guessing the appraisal issue isnt that big a deal.

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## fortpatches

> ...You can tell the buyer that they will save this and that, but as said above, most people aren't staying in a house long enough to make their money back.


As I showed, you literally pay less starting on the first month. As in, on a *monthly* basis, you spend less money. And if you take the different in price and put that extra $150/mo that you would otherwise have to spend on electricity against your mortgage, you would pay off the higher mortgage 7years earlier and save over $88k in interest.

I am not sure where "making your money back" comes into the picture since you always have more money each month. Like, you don't talk about "making your money back" when you just measure interest from money you put in a savings account.

This would be more akin to amortizing 30% of my electric costs over the next 30yrs and not having to pay the other 70%.

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## Teo9969

> I am not sure where "making your money back" comes into the picture since you always have more money each month. Like, you don't talk about "making your money back" when you just measure interest from money you put in a savings account.
> 
> This would be more akin to amortizing 30% of my electric costs over the next 30yrs and not having to pay the other 70%.


Because you can't finance $230k, you can only finance $200k and have to pay the additional $30k out of pocket

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## Midtowner

> Because you can't finance $230k, you can only finance $200k and have to pay the additional $30k out of pocket


How many people really finance 100% of the purchase of a home? Aintcha heard about a down payment? For that $200K home, you should be putting down at least $40K to avoid PMI, right?

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## chssooner

> How many people really finance 100% of the purchase of a home? Aintcha heard about a down payment? For that $200K home, you should be putting down at least $40K to avoid PMI, right?


But most first (or even second) time home buyers can't afford 20% down, so they grin and bear the PMI.

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## OKCRealtor

> How many people really finance 100% of the purchase of a home? Aintcha heard about a down payment? For that $200K home, you should be putting down at least $40K to avoid PMI, right?


Most people do not have an abundance of cash to put down. Apart from credit scores, it's probably the #2 reason people couldn't buy something in the last couple years as you needed cash to get in. Over 60% of people living paycheck to paycheck, which is staggering, including those over $100k threshold.

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## Teo9969

> How many people really finance 100% of the purchase of a home? Aintcha heard about a down payment? For that $200K home, you should be putting down at least $40K to avoid PMI, right?


Y'all are making the #dontbepoor argument.

People are not going to choose a smaller/worse located/lower quality house in order to get into a home that has Solar they know nothing about already installed.

I see a future where appraisals give back some value to owners who did the install, but it will never be what you paid for install. I think best case scenario, you'll lose minimum 30% of wherever you're at in the depreciated life cycle.

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## fortpatches

> Most people do not have an abundance of cash to put down. Apart from credit scores, it's probably the #2 reason people couldn't buy something in the last couple years as you needed cash to get in. Over 60% of people living paycheck to paycheck, which is staggering, including those over $100k threshold.


I'm lucky I bought my first house in mid-2019. No down payment, meh credit, and bank preapproval based on a job offer letter when I was otherwise unemployed for 6 mo / an independent contractor (By closing, I did have two paychecks with my new (current) job, though). 

Basically, I had to buy a house since I could not find a landlord that would allow three pets and we couldn't just abandon one!

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## Midtowner

> Y'all are making the #dontbepoor argument.
> 
> People are not going to choose a smaller/worse located/lower quality house in order to get into a home that has Solar they know nothing about already installed.
> 
> I see a future where appraisals give back some value to owners who did the install, but it will never be what you paid for install. I think best case scenario, you'll lose minimum 30% of wherever you're at in the depreciated life cycle.


If you're not a first time homebuyer, you likely have $100K+ to plunk down as a down payment. Especially if you built up some equity in the home you're moving from. Even more especially if you're moving here from a higher priced market. A lot of these assumptions presuppose all buyers will be first time purchasers or will only have a de minimis down payment. I can't imagine--especially for homes in the $400s and up that many buyers are purchasing their first home or aren't able to put at least 20% down. 

So yeah, most home buyers are probably not poor. That's why they're home buyers and not renters. We're not really talking about poor people here. 

That said, you're going to probably lose a good chunk of money on any home improvements you aren't doing a good quality job on yourself unless the improvement is bringing the house from 'unacceptable' to 'acceptable.'  Even premium windows and doors aren't going to give you a 100%+ ROI.

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## Teo9969

No, the argument is really this:

Buyers will figure out what their budget is both in terms of down payment and loan thresholds.

They'll then create their list of criteria to look for, and all but a fraction of buyers will have already-installed-solar as a criterion. So you, the owner of a solar home, will list your house out of their price range by asking for additional monies to cover the solar. You won't even get factored in because you'll be out of range, and if you are well with in their price point, your home is probably lacking other major criteria they're looking for.

Now, when a home finally starts appraising higher due to solar and it *is* possible to buy beyond budget because of rolling what forpatches posted in post #72 there will be more market, but still less than you think because so many buyers look to buy as much house as they'll be approved for, even if they have the capital.

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