# Civic Matters > Suburban & Other OK Communities > Norman >  What has happened to all the mental patients?

## jstaylor62

I used to work on campus, so I became quite familiar with some of Norman's mental patients. I'm not in Norman as much as I used to be, so I kind of wonder how they are getting along. I read that another person got hit by a train Sunday night, so I always wonder if its one the local charachters that I knew.

3 Hat Willie - He would wear at least three hats stacked on his head. Rode a bicycle and carried a bicycle horn with him. He was always kind of my favorite.

Glove Man - Like Michael Jackson, he would wear a glove on one hand. I heard that he got hit by a train several years ago

Quick Draw - A former Architect student. Glues marbles to the sides of lighters so he can draw out his lighter faster to light the cigarettes for the ladies

Spook - A really skinny guy that would litterally run if you made eye contact and tried to talk to him

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## Thunder

I heard the mental hospital closed down a year or two ago.  I dunno why it closed down.  For the record, I was never a patient at that mental hospital.  Since its closure, I do agree that the amount of train-kills have been increasing.

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## MDot

Well the man who was hit by a train Sunday, they said he was sitting on the tracks and was hit by the Amtrak on the way back from Ft. Worth. Sounds to me like he was a crazy man considering he was sitting on Railroad tracks.

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## Thunder

Sunday as in yesterday's Sunday?  Damn!  Norman keep having all these suiciders weekly.  It won't be long before its a daily trend!  As for that man, he probably was complementing whatever he should die or not.  If he was deaf, then it may have been an accident, but stupid to stick on the tracks.

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## MDot

Yeah, Sunday as in yesterday's Sunday. These have happened a lot lately and am beginning to wonder if most of these don't have something to do with suicide. Very sad for the train drivers cause a lot of people commit suicide by way of train and they have to deal with the emotions of taking someone's life even if it is the person's decision plus they have hours a counseling they have to take which takes some work time away from them.

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## Thunder

Well, the train drivers can't take fault.  Not now, not ever.  The trains have serious flaw in not being able to stop instantly as subway hi-speed trains do.

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## Brandon_sharp

Do you ever think about the weight those trains carry vs. a subway? not to mention the speed difference, physics disagree.

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## Thunder

> Do you ever think about the weight those trains carry vs. a subway? not to mention the speed difference, physics disagree.


Doesn't matter.  They could still add more braking systems to be applied on each cars, then they will be able to instantly stop.

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## MDot

No, they shouldn't, but I can only imagine how difficult it much be killing someone when you can't control what happened. Imagine sitting up in the engine looking down the tracks and you see a human being on the tracks and you start blowing the train horn, screaming for them to move, and praying that either they move or the train will stop before you hit them, then you realize they won't move and the train won't stop in time so you have to just close your eyes and wait for the train to stop. Then the investigators confirm to you that someone has been killed and their motives were unknown but probably suicide. Then they tell you that you can go to counseling for what just happened. It is a mess and after awhile you either quit driving trains or you become numb to it and go through the rutine because train drivers get payed well. And it's not that the train have flaws, it's that they have so much weight from the freight is just to great for the train to stop instantly.

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## Thunder

> No, they shouldn't, but I can only imagine how difficult it much be killing someone when you can't control what happened. Imagine sitting up in the engine looking down the tracks and you see a human being on the tracks and *you start blowing the train horn, screaming for them to move, and praying that either they move or the train will stop before you hit them, then you realize they won't move* and the train won't stop in time so you have to just close your eyes and wait for the train to stop. Then the investigators confirm to you that someone has been killed and their motives were unknown but probably suicide. Then they tell you that you can go to counseling for what just happened. It is a mess and after awhile you either quit driving trains or you become numb to it and go through the rutine because train drivers get payed well. And it's not that the train have flaws, it's that they have so much weight from the freight is just to great for the train to stop instantly.


Is there video camera and voice/sound recorder in the engine train?  They should not ever, not now, not ever, just simply blow the horns and screaming at a person to get out of the way before attempting to stop.  They should be doing all three actions immediately at the same time; blowing the horn, screaming at the person, and apply the emergency brakes.  I guess most of these deaths could have been avoided if the drivers would have just attempted to stop at the same time of blowing the horns rather than waiting to see if the horns will be effective.  Also, they should install high-zoom cameras to monitor the tracks way out ahead.  I bet they will not do that.

How about electrifying the tracks?  There could be something from the trains that touches the tracks, so it can be another method to shock the people off the tracks.  Would that work effectively?

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## MDot

I meant they do all that at the same time, sorry if it came across wrong. I have no idea or suggestions for what they could do but it has become a problem and there really should be something done IMO.

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## Thunder

They should install a high-zoom video camera on top of the engine train, so they can easily watch out a distance through their television monitor.  That will greatly enhance the stopping distance time.  More lives saved.  Will this safety feature ever be installed?  Sadly, no.

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## MadMonk

> Doesn't matter.  They could still add more braking systems to be applied on each cars, then they will be able to instantly stop.


LOL, failed physics did ya?

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## Thunder

> LOL, failed physics did ya?


I don't remember having a Physics class. :-(  Its okay, go ahead and call me a retard. :'-(

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## Jim Kyle

> Doesn't matter.  They could still add more braking systems to be applied on each cars, then they will be able to instantly stop.


It's obvious that you've never been around anyone who's worked with railroads; the braking systems already in place exert enough force to completely stop the wheels from turning at all. The inertia of all that weight keeps the cars moving forward for quite a while. Friction between the locked wheels and the rails gets the wheels hot enough to soften the steel, and literally grinds a flat spot on each wheel. It's totally impossible to stop any heavy object "instantly."

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## MDot

^^What he said. I could've put it that way but would have been way harder to understand.

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## Phoenix59

w E ' Re    s  T I L L   a R O u N d.

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## PennyQuilts

Long days ago before the advent of modern medication to treat serious mental illnesses, people lived and died at Griffin and other mental institutions.  They'd live there for decades, grow their own food, make their own clothes, etc.  

Over the past few decades, treatment of the mentally ill has progressed from treating them like animals who needed to be caged, to the recognition that serious mental illness is an organic disease that can be treated.  

Someone who is bi-polar or schizophrenic is to be pitied, not hated.  I don't have much patience with people who have a personality disorder or who are antisocial or sociopaths, but the poor souls who are stark raving mad as a result of a disease of the brain...  My god.  They are pretty much the last group that is still an open target for jokes and insults even though they have done nothing to have their disease and their lives - and the lives of their families - are often miserable as a result of their illness.  People who puff up in fury when someone says something unkind about a woman or a minority or a gay person are often happily making jokes about the seriously mentally ill.  They are, in terms of sensitivity, where the south was 50 years ago.  But there ya go.  The ones who make the jokes (and I have done it, myself) might want to stop and think about their own willingness to do that before condemning other people for making rude statements about other groups.  Casting the first stone and all that.  

Where I am going is that 100 years ago, many thousands of people lived at Griffin.  That number dropped like a rock once proper medication was developed.  Back in 2000, the bed count at Griffin was about 180 - 185.  Those beds were generally filled or close to filled.  Some other institutions have opened since that time but the bed count, these days, is still usually at about 95% filled and has dropped to about 120.

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## Thunder

Penny, back in 2005, some people mentioned the Griffin hospital, but I never went there.  I kept going to multiple hospitals for suicide attempts.  Never knew Griffin was that kind of hospital. :-O Last I heard, they closed down and now we see people dying by train.

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## PennyQuilts

> Penny, back in 2005, some people mentioned the Griffin hospital, but I never went there.  I kept going to multiple hospitals for suicide attempts.  Never knew Griffin was that kind of hospital. :-O Last I heard, they closed down and now we see people dying by train.


Back in 2009, the Department went through a reduction in force and laid off quite a few people.  They reduced the number of beds at Griffin and merged and/or eliminated a number of substance abuse facilities and community mental health facilities around the state.  They also reduced the number of contracts with private providers.  I could be wrong but I hadn't heard that they were planning to close Griffin and, in fact, I can't imagine that they could do that because it fills a need that isn't provided via contract.  Up in Vinita, they have the forensic center and it has about 200 beds.  They have a number of other community mental health centers around the state that have a few beds, each.  The Crisis Center, in OKC by the Health Sciences Center has about 65 or so beds but it isn't intended to provide longer term treatment.

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## kevinpate

FWIW, there are still functioning facilities out on the Griffin grounds, as well as at the youth center immediately to the south.

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## BG918

Griffin is still open but how many patients actually live there?  I've always wondered.  The campus is huge but is mostly open space.  Seems like they could consolidate Griffin in a smaller space and then redevelop that section of Norman.

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## yukong

Griffin is still the main civil commitment facility in Oklahoma.  The acute care facility has a large patient census.  There are also apartments/assisted living quarters that are not secure for patients that will most likely never return to the community.  The acute care facility is essentially in the middle of the campus.  It is relatively new compared to the rest of the buildings. (the apartments/assisted living area is fairly new also) It is secure and has a wrought iron fence around the exercise yard.  I'm not sure of the normal census, but I would guess it is over 100.  At one time, there were close to 5000 patients at Griffin.  (40's 50's)  Also located there is Red Rock which is a drug/alcohol treatment center.  Eastern State in Vinita also has a civil commitment unit, but it the site of the forensic center where those who are charged with crimes, or are in penal custody are taken for treatment.  It also has a fair number of patients who have serious criminal charges who have been found to be incompetent to stand trial and will most likely be there forever.  And then in Ft. Supply is the old Western State Hospital, which is now Northwest Behavioral Center.  Most of what was Western State Hospital is not William S. Key Correctional Center which is a minimum security prison.  All 3 facilities look almost identical as all were built in the same era and had almost identical architecture.  Hope Hall at Griffin is now vacant, as are most of the old red brick buildings.  They are out dated and the state no longer has the money to keep them running.  My agency moved out of Hope Hall in July.  We operated there for about 10 years.

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## yukong

> Doesn't matter.  They could still add more braking systems to be applied on each cars, then they will be able to instantly stop.



Each car does have brakes.  They are controlled by air or can be engaged manually at each car.  There is no instant stopping with trains.  And the heavier the train, the longer the stopping distance.  Steel on steel will not stop "instantly" regardless of the weight or brakes.  In fact, all trains also have sand jets that spray sand in front of the locomotive wheels to produce friction to aid in stopping or starting.  They can tell when the engineer applies the emergency brakes by where the sand starts.   Years ago, I worked a case where a 15 year old kid was killed by a train.  He was on a bridge when the train approached.  The engineer engaged the brakes with the sand applied and it still took 1/4-1/2 mile before they could get the train stopped.  They were doing the speed limit of 55 when they saw the kid.  The kid had a friend who just climbed out on the rigging of the bridge, but the dead kid tried to outrun the train.  Bad decision.  The brakeman even climbed out on the walkway on the front of the engine and hollered at the kid to jump/jump/jump off the bridge, but the kid thought he could beat it.  He was about 5 feet from the end of the bridge when he got hit.  Sad sad deal.  the engineer and brakeman were just devastated.

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## jstaylor62

I appreciate the gang that has totally hijacked my thread! 

My original post, you remember that dont you. I was simply asking about the where abouts of various well known characters in Norman.

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## Thunder

> I appreciate the gang that has totally hijacked my thread! 
> 
> My original post, you remember that dont you. I was simply asking about the where abouts of various well known characters in Norman.


Go check the Griffin hospital.

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## BG918

> Griffin is still the main civil commitment facility in Oklahoma.  The acute care facility has a large patient census.  There are also apartments/assisted living quarters that are not secure for patients that will most likely never return to the community.  The acute care facility is essentially in the middle of the campus.  It is relatively new compared to the rest of the buildings. (the apartments/assisted living area is fairly new also) It is secure and has a wrought iron fence around the exercise yard.  I'm not sure of the normal census, but I would guess it is over 100.  At one time, there were close to 5000 patients at Griffin.  (40's 50's)  Also located there is Red Rock which is a drug/alcohol treatment center.  Eastern State in Vinita also has a civil commitment unit, but it the site of the forensic center where those who are charged with crimes, or are in penal custody are taken for treatment.  It also has a fair number of patients who have serious criminal charges who have been found to be incompetent to stand trial and will most likely be there forever.  And then in Ft. Supply is the old Western State Hospital, which is now Northwest Behavioral Center.  Most of what was Western State Hospital is not William S. Key Correctional Center which is a minimum security prison.  All 3 facilities look almost identical as all were built in the same era and had almost identical architecture.  Hope Hall at Griffin is now vacant, as are most of the old red brick buildings.  They are out dated and the state no longer has the money to keep them running.  My agency moved out of Hope Hall in July.  We operated there for about 10 years.


Interesting, thanks.  The old buildings are unique architecturally and hopefully could be reused as apartments or offices in the future if that site was redeveloped.  It makes sense to have 3 state mental health facilities but it doesn't make a lot of sense to have one in the middle of Norman.  Somewhere east or south of the city would be better, and they could occupy a smaller area with modern facilities.

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## venture

The Griffen property probably would be nice to redevelop, but I would add to see it just filled in with more strip malls and sub divisions. Green space that close to the city core is hard to come by. Of course I would also like to see a lot of the areas near downtown get cleaned out.

I agree that they should consider building a new, state of the art facility. Do some nice landscaping with ponds and trees to really bring a calming atmosphere to the facility. Definitely would do better than the old facility that looks like it was taken out of your random psycho horror flick.

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## yukong

> Interesting, thanks.  The old buildings are unique architecturally and hopefully could be reused as apartments or offices in the future if that site was redeveloped.  It makes sense to have 3 state mental health facilities but it doesn't make a lot of sense to have one in the middle of Norman.  Somewhere east or south of the city would be better, and they could occupy a smaller area with modern facilities.


That makes sense, but with the budget problems the state has been having, mental health is an area where cuts will continue to be made.  There just isn't the money to go buy new land, and build new facilities.  The current acute care facility is relatively new (as far as state facilities go) and the assisted living area is modern.  So, they will stay put for many, many years if not decades.  In fact, they have wanted to tear down some of the oldest buildings, but the state doesn't have the money for the demolition.  They will just sit and crumble.

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## PennyQuilts

> Griffin is still open but how many patients actually live there?  I've always wondered.  The campus is huge but is mostly open space.  Seems like they could consolidate Griffin in a smaller space and then redevelop that section of Norman.


They are at about 93 - 96% filled on beds but the deal is that it is a hospital so the notion is that most patients aren't intended to "live" there, indefinitely.  Very, very few, if any.  Of course, sadly enough, part of the illness is that they tend to go off their medication and often ping pong in and out.  But most are out as soon as they get their medication under control.  Or, the cynic in me says, when the insurance runs out...  But to be fair, most people with organic brain diseases are "sane" once they get that under control.  It is a little like getting their insulin squared away.  No need to keep them, inpatient and keeping them there against their will isn't something allowed once they get back under control.   Of course, many are liable to have other problems as a result of their mental illness that aren't directly related to chemical inbalances.  Still, the seriously mentally ill may have job problems, education problems, family problems, etc., as a result of their illness.  Moreover, sometimes, mental illness runs in families so they may have some missing pieces by virtue of being raised in a dysfunctional home.  But those other problems don't require them to be kept in an inpatient facility - most are treated on an outpatient basis so long as they haven't gone off their meds.

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## PennyQuilts

> I appreciate the gang that has totally hijacked my thread! 
> 
> My original post, you remember that dont you. I was simply asking about the where abouts of various well known characters in Norman.


 I thought you asked about where the mental patients were.

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## yukong

> I appreciate the gang that has totally hijacked my thread! 
> 
> My original post, you remember that dont you. I was simply asking about the where abouts of various well known characters in Norman.


I'm not sure about the ones you ask.  I have been working in Norman for the past 5 years, and I haven't seen any of those around.  We office downtown now, in the Leaning Tower of Vista, and the only one I ever see is Calvin (if he counts).  Now I do regularly see the fellow with the 3 wheeled mardi gras bike.  That one is interesting.  No idea if he is a mental patient though.  Just has a bitchin' bike.

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## MDot

> I'm not sure about the ones you ask.  I have been working in Norman for the past 5 years, and I haven't seen any of those around.  We office downtown now, in the Leaning Tower of Vista, and the only one I ever see is Calvin (if he counts).  Now I do regularly see the fellow with the 3 wheeled mardi gras bike.  That one is interesting.  No idea if he is a mental patient though.  Just has a bitchin' bike.


Next time you see him ask him if he can pimp me up a bike.

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## yukong

> Next time you see him ask him if he can pimp me up a bike.


Next time I see it, I will snap a picture.  It is quite a sight.  Really pimped out.  Really looks like it should be ridden in the Mardi Gras parade.

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## skyrick

Without reading the thread, I'd have to answer with a Pink Floyd lyric:

The lunatics are in my hall,
the lunatics are in my hall.
The paper holds their folded faces to the floor, 
but everyday the paperboy brings more.

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## kevinpate

> Interesting, thanks.  The old buildings are unique architecturally and hopefully could be reused as apartments or offices in the future if that site was redeveloped.  It makes sense to have 3 state mental health facilities but it doesn't make a lot of sense to have one in the middle of Norman.  Somewhere east or south of the city would be better, and they could occupy a smaller area with modern facilities.


Until a short time back this summer, one of the older structures, Hope Hall, had been used for state agency offices after being renovated in 2002 and early 2003.  That agency, as yukong has noted, has now moved to downtown Norman.  I've no idea what, if any, plans exist for Hope Hall now that it has been emptied.  Several of the offices had minimal work done and still bore strong signs of being the old psych ward rooms.  I have a lot of fond memories of Hope Hall and those whom shared those halls at that time.

It's odd to miss such a setting, but I do miss that place from time to time, and definitely miss the good folk who were there.

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## yukong

> Until a short time back this summer, one of the older structures, Hope Hall, had been used for state agency offices after being renovated in 2002 and early 2003.  That agency, as yukong has noted, has now moved to downtown Norman.  I've no idea what, if any, plans exist for Hope Hall now that it has been emptied.  Several of the offices had minimal work done and still bore strong signs of being the old psych ward rooms.  I have a lot of fond memories of Hope Hall and those whom shared those halls at that time.
> 
> It's odd to miss such a setting, but I do miss that place from time to time, and definitely miss the good folk who were there.


Kevin:  as nice as our new digs are, I do sort of miss Hope Hall.  It had a certain aura about it and I enjoyed that.  No longer can I tell stories about the ghosts at work.  No ghosts at the Vista Building.  But many believed we had ghosts at Hope Hall.  I heard that they eventually plan on tearing it down when they get the funds.  I hope they don't.  But I doubt they will be used again.  Too much upkeep.  And the main problem is that the HVAC system is from the 40s-50s and parts now have to be fabricated for the system when it breaks down.  We had many many days off last summer and winter when it was too hot or cold to work because the system was down.  Every time it broke, they had to have parts made as parts are no longer stocked for that system.

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## yukong

Walked out of the building today, and the Mardi Gras bike has been changed.  It is now in a fall motif.  I have asked around, and the ones I talked to tell me they think the guy is a former mental patient.  And that he apparently changes his bike decorations to fit the time of the year.  At Easter, he has eggs all over it.  Summer is mardi gras.  But no one had seen the fall design.  Now I'm curious to see if there is a christmas edition.

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## RadicalModerate

Well . . .
I see that THIS one got moved off of The Front Page with an "unannounced" Mega/Merge/Move.

So . . . In Answer to The Question . . .
I'll see your Pink Floyd . . . and I'll raise you . . .



Alternate Answer: In Here.
(Or else hanging out, behind CastleGates, at that mystery house in Moore on 4th East of Eastern. =)

BTW: Cool Bike . . .
But where are the cards in the spokes?

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## PennyQuilts

> Walked out of the building today, and the Mardi Gras bike has been changed.  It is now in a fall motif.  I have asked around, and the ones I talked to tell me they think the guy is a former mental patient.  And that he apparently changes his bike decorations to fit the time of the year.  At Easter, he has eggs all over it.  Summer is mardi gras.  But no one had seen the fall design.  Now I'm curious to see if there is a christmas edition.


That does not sound like a mental patient.  That sounds like my grandmother and her porch decorations.

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## stratosphere

> I appreciate the gang that has totally hijacked my thread! 
> 
> My original post, you remember that dont you. I was simply asking about the where abouts of various well known characters in Norman.


The Glove man passed away a few years ago,  i believe,  though i do not know what the cause of death was.  3 Hat Willie was one of my favorites,  he seemed like such a pleasant guy,  honking his horn at people and shining his flashlight at them.  I think he is still around but i am not sure.

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## pigdog

Ed Kearns may not be Norman's most famous resident, but he certainly owns Norman's most famous tricycle.

 in the Normna trascript 
http://normantranscript.com/local/x5...ne-man-parade/

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## pigdog

found in the The Norman Transcript 
The Norman Transcript
May 7, 2007 
A one-man parade



Long-time Norman resident turns tricycle into 'mobile public art'



By Brianna Bailey

Transcript Staff Writer

Ed Kearns may not be Norman's most famous resident, but he certainly owns Norman's most famous tricycle.

Decked out in tinsel and plastic lawn ornaments, themed according to the season, Kearns' red, adult tricycle is a moving Norman landmark wherever he goes.

"I have a friend who calls it 'mobile public art,'" Kearns said.

Kearns' tricycle sports an Earth Day-slash-spring theme this month. There's a smiling plastic frog strapped to the front wheel guard, frozen in a swan dive position. A piece of metal piping bent into a spiral and covered with green tinsel mean to represent the earth hangs suspended between two flag poles covered in fake flowers. Glittering, rainbow colored mylar hearts dangle here, a few wood and metal flowers stick out there. A cheery wooden sign that reads "Happy Spring" is strapped to the basket.

"Kids really seem to like it, people get a kick out of it," he said.

A Norman resident for 30 years, a graduate of Norman High School, the University of Oklahoma, and OU Law School, Kearns has become a somewhat more visible member of the community since he decided to turn his tricycle into a miniature, year-round holiday parade.

Legally blind, the tricycle is Kearns' only mode of transportation. He decided about a year and a half ago to start decorating it according to the season after riding in the Norman Mardi Gras parade.

Kearns' church sponsored a float in the annual Norman event with a Voodoo-theme and Kearns decorated his bike in a matching style with purple, gold and green Mardi Gras colors.

"Then St. Patrick's day was right around the corner and I'm Irish, so I decided to decorate for that too," Kearns said.

After St. Patrick's Day came Earth Day, and then the Fourth of July. Kearns never stopped decorating the tricycle. It was decked out in a sun-beam theme for part of last summer with gold and red tinsel. Kearns rode in Norman's Main Street Christmas Holiday parade this year, showcasing a silver and blue winter theme. For this year's Mardi Gras parade, Kearns turned the tricycle into a rolling, pedal-powered pirate ship, complete with a small sail made by a friend.

Kearns gets most of his decorations from craft stores and keeps an eye out for things made of metal, plastic and wood -- durable things that will be able to withstand Oklahoma's sometimes unpredictable weather. He stockpiles things like colored tinsel garlands, which are usually only available in stores during the Christmas shopping season.

"I'd have to say St. Patrick's Day is my favorite," Kearns said. The tricycle is covered in shamrocks and green tinsel in March, and a few left-over clovers are still sprouting here and there on the trike in May.

In November, Kearns plans to decorate his tricycle in a centennial theme celebrating the 100th anniversary of Oklahoma's statehood. The centennial tricycle theme will showcase some of Oklahoma's state symbols such as the state bird and tree, Kearns said.

"It will honor Oklahoma's native heritage and showcase some of Oklahoma's natural symbols. . . there's really a lot you can do with it," Kearns said.

Kearns said he enjoys seeing people smile as he rides by.

"It's a way to be creative and I'm adding color to the community," he said.

Brianna Bailey 366-3527 bbailey@normantranscript.com

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## Bunty

Maybe some of them found meds that worked.

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