Downtown Map Revision - Critiques Requested

[Doug Loudenback]

The revision to my downtown Oklahoma City clickable map is underway ... eventually it will replace the "current" clickable map located here: http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/downtownokc.htm but it will work the same way.

This is the "unpopulated" (but for a few buildings in Bricktown shown to illustrate my intention ... they will eventually have #s, also) new map image is this:



The Bricktown "buildings" shown are the Pitman parking garage, the unstarted Hampton Inn, the Brick, Harkins, Toby Keith's, the started Residence Inn, and Bass Pro.

What I'm asking is a critique of this map before I really begin to populate the map ... errors in the map, anything. The new map will contain more detail and a larger area than the former, with Shartel as the western boundary and 10th St as the northern.

I've made one-way streets "blue" for ease of noticing. The other items should be self-explanatory. The areas east of downtown proper are now to scale (or, at least, should be).

All suggestions, etc., are welcome ... I'd like to get this right and for it to be mo' better than the present map.

[Patrick]

Looks like a good start to me. Looking forward to seeing the final product.

[Doug Loudenback]

Thanks, Patrick. Here's the general progress so far (w/o #s ... color codes are:

Yellow: parking
Black: office or business (including utilities, e.g., OG&E)
Tan: miscellaneous (e.g., Trigen Energy)
Hot Pink: cultural or entertertainment or commercial
Green: hotels
Dark blue: government
Violet: residential

A few "buildings" have 2 colors, to indicate a separte segment within a main area (e.g., the Oklahoman building as part of the YMCA campus). I'm including proposed elements where they appear to be "sure things", e.g., the opening of Harvey between Sheridan & Park Ave, the 2 pending hotels in Bricktown, the opening of Dewey between Kerr & NW 4th and the apartments east of Dewey. I'm not as certain what to do with projects that are not certain (as far as I'm aware), e.g., the Flatiron District residential project(s).

Again, any critiques and suggestions are welcome. For example, I see in this particular attachment that I've miscolored the Civic Center Music Hall ... should be hot pink not blue.

[Patrick]

I like the way you have the different uses divided by colors. I'll be looking forward to seeing the final product with clickable images.

[Doug Loudenback]

Thanks, Patrick.

After all the buildings and clusters ... I'm adding "clusters" to show multiple small buildings in a single area in one pic, e.g., the 3 or 4 small buildings between City Place & 101 Park will be shown as a cluster ... are populated in the map, the next step will be to create a numbering system ... the one I'd used before (strictly numeric #s) did not lend itself well to "change" ... and if anything is true about downtown OKC right now, it is that "change" is a constant ... weekly, monthly, etc.. I'm inclined to think that an alphabetical prefix (e.g., "P" for Park, "H" for hotel) combined with a number, e.g., 1, 2, 3) is the way to go, so that a building # might be H1, G3, P4, etc.

What are your thoughts about that?

BTW, I really appreciate your feedback ... me just talking to myself doesn't predictably come up with any "new" ideas ... I was sincere when I requested feedback, and, so far ... sob sob sob ... you are the only one!

An example of how the feedback helps: just now, in looking over this thread, I see that I've got the Courtyard Mariott and the Arena Parking located wrong ... they are not side-by-side E/W, they are side-by-side N/S! If I'd not been looking over this thread, I probably wouldn't have noticed.

[brianinok]

Hey Doug,

Currently, I believe that Oklahoma and Walnut are one way (south and north, respectively) in Deep Deuce and Flatiron. I know they were going to change that, but I didn't think it had already been done. I could be wrong, though! Don't forget about the Amtrak Station (although I may be a little ahead of you-- sorry if I am). Also, there is an exit off I-40 eastbound that loops 180 degrees and comes out heading west on SW 4th at Harvey. Looks like a great start, that seems like quite an undertaking.

[Doug Loudenback]

Hey Doug,

Currently, I believe that Oklahoma and Walnut are one way (south and north, respectively) in Deep Deuce and Flatiron. I know they were going to change that, but I didn't think it had already been done. I could be wrong, though! Don't forget about the Amtrak Station (although I may be a little ahead of you-- sorry if I am). Also, there is an exit off I-40 eastbound that loops 180 degrees and comes out heading west on SW 4th at Harvey. Looks like a great start, that seems like quite an undertaking.

THANKS! Yep, you're absolutely correct about the I-40 eastbound exit at Harvey ... since I've almost never used it, it was not in my head to think of it! Don't know about the other matters, but, if I have time tomorrow, I'll drive the streets (Oklahoma & Walnut ... the latter, of course, the extent possible) and see what I can see! Amtrak, though, is already there ... the yellow rectangle along Gaylord between Sheridan & Reno ... if California were an E/W street at that point, it would intersect the depot. The "canal" terminal is to the right (east) across the RR ...

Have I got that wrong?

[jbrown84]

I'm including proposed elements where they appear to be "sure things", e.g., the opening of Harvey between Sheridan & Park Ave,...

I could be wrong, but I was thinking that Harvey was only being reopened to the south end of the new Galleria garage. I don't think it is connecting all the way through to Sheridan, because they would have to tear out Festival Place (the fountains on either side). I think it's just being used as a main entryway to the new garage.

[Doug Loudenback]

Brianok, the OK & Walnut advice you gave, below, is CONFIRMED by driving the routes today. Each remain one-way, and I'll modify my map accordingly. Thanks!

Hey Doug,

Currently, I believe that Oklahoma and Walnut are one way (south and north, respectively) in Deep Deuce and Flatiron. I know they were going to change that, but I didn't think it had already been done. ...

Jbrown84, you said

I could be wrong, but I was thinking that Harvey was only being reopened to the south end of the new Galleria garage. I don't think it is connecting all the way through to Sheridan, because they would have to tear out Festival Place (the fountains on either side). I think it's just being used as a main entryway to the new garage.

In my map, I was just guessing about the Harvey reopening since I've seen nothing definitive about the partial reopening of Harvey. I just figured that it would be most logical to open Harvey to the southern boundary of the Galleria parking (Sheridan) which would make that part of downtown more accessible from the southern side at Harvey. But, that was and is just a guess. Otherwise, the reopened Harvey would have its southern terminus WITHIN the Galleria parking area, lacking a southern connection to Sheridan, which may well be the case.

Do you have anything (e.g., website links) that helps to resolve this point?

Again, thanks to all for your input. I'm VERY glad to have it.

[Karried]

Doug, that's a lot of work! Very Cool -

[Doug Loudenback]

Hi, Karrie! I've been missing hearing from you! Thanks for chiming in!

[jbrown84]

In my map, I was just guessing about the Harvey reopening since I've seen nothing definitive about the partial reopening of Harvey. I just figured that it would be most logical to open Harvey to the southern boundary of the Galleria parking (Sheridan) which would make that part of downtown more accessible from the southern side at Harvey. But, that was and is just a guess. Otherwise, the reopened Harvey would have its southern terminus WITHIN the Galleria parking area, lacking a southern connection to Sheridan, which may well be the case.

Do you have anything (e.g., website links) that helps to resolve this point?

No, I'm just going off memory. I don't remember necessarily reading that it wouldn't connect through to Sheridan, but I don't remember reading that it would. And having just walked around that area a couple days ago, I can say that there is no sign of any demolition to make way for Harvey south of the new garage. If they did plan to do that, they would have to demolish (as I mentioned above) Festival Place and it's northern fountain, as well as an apparently long abandoned enclosed escalator/stairs to the old Myriad Gardens tunnells (I assume that's what it is. I never noticed it before). Also, the road would have to be built over the old Galleria garage as well.

[Doug Loudenback]

jbrown84, I think you're correct about Harvey. From the Skyline Snapshot 3rd Qtr. 2005:

When completed, the new garage will incorporate an architectural style compatible with nearby buildings and a new ingress/egress point from Harvey Avenue. A skywalk will link the two new multi-story garage structures.

So, it seems that the "reopened" Harvey will only be a "jut" (so to speak) from Park Avenue southbound into the Galleria Parking for traffice to/from Park Avenue. I think I'd have preferred extending a reopened Harvey to Sheridan, but I do believe that you are correct! Thanks for the heads-up!

[Doug Loudenback]

As already said, the new "map" will be a much larger area than presently exists and I'm trying to include pics of most buildings embraced in the covered area.

Here's a building I'm wondering if any of you can help me with ... the former Holiday Inn on Main at Dewey ...



This view looks east along Main toward Walker with the Montgomery and the Walker/Sheridan parking garage in the background. The building is clearly being used for something, but, on my walkabout last Monday the doors were locked but signs of life were clearly evident, and it appears that the grounds are being well cared for. I couldn't locate any signs which gave a clue as to the building's use and/or occupants.

Anyone know anything about this?

Thanks in advance.

[Doug Loudenback]

Following up on the "Holiday Inn" question, I now see in another pic I took on 1/2/06, below, a City of Oklahoma City flag in front of this building. So, apparently, it is either owned/leased/whaterver used by one or more OKC agencies ... if that helps in identification.

[HOT ROD]

Sure wish the would reopen that building as a hotel, even if it was a discount one line HI Xpress, OKC needs to appeal to all income levels -

And West Downtown surely needs a hotel!!! Especially a 10 storey one - like the one that already exists. ....

[jbrown84]

Wow I never noticed that building nor did I know there was once a Holiday Inn downtown.

[Doug Loudenback]

Yeah. My memory is too crappy to remember when the building WAS a Holiday Inn.

It was also something else at one time or another, and I don't remember which came first, the Holiday Inn or the other identity. I recall that there was a pretty nice restaurant on the 1st floor.

Maybe those with better memories will jump in here with more detail. I'll probably drop by there today to see what I can find out.

[Doug Loudenback]

I did go by and into the former Holiday Inn yesterday. Rather than encumber this thread with my findings, I started a new one here: http://www.okctalk.com/t5262-the-fo...principles.html . It describes a bit of research I did in figuring out how the old Holiday Inn at 520 W. Main is used today, right here in downtown Oklahoma City! To keep this thread on topic, I'd appreciate it if any observations might care to make about the Holiday Inn property be made in that fascinating thread, at least it is to me!

[metro]

Back to topic please, the old HI which is now Character First has already been discussed on OKC talk numerous times

[Doug Loudenback]

Back to topic please, the old HI which is now Character First has already been discussed on OKC talk numerous times

Thanks for your input, Metro. Do you have any substantive suggestions?

[Doug Loudenback]

Here's the map progress (w/o labels) as I plod along ... I've added a small area at the bottom for the Oklahoma River so that the Chesapeake Boathouse will have a place (lower right) ... and I see now (as this is posted) that I've not yet corrected Walnut and Oklahoma which are still one-way streets.



Even though there aren't going to be "individual" building specified by #, I'm adding "strip" areas which can show segments of smaller buildings not in most (any that I know) maps of OKC, such as this area west of the Harbour Longmire Building (Main Place) ...



I'm not very far along with such "strips" ... I've got the area between City Place and 101 Park Avenue covered, below, as well as a few other. But, to make the current map more interesting, I'd like to include all such places that I can think of, and I'd appreciate your suggestions about that. For example, I'm going to include the strip between the Union Bus Station and the 1 North Hudson Building (Black Hotel), to be sure to include the venerable Lunch Box diner. Your suggestions are invited.



Here's a building I know NOTHING about ... the City Hall "annex", so to speak. It's had facelifts over the years ... on Walker at Colcord Drive ....



Can anyone enlighten me about the history of this building ... like ... it's original name, when it was originally constructed, and/or it's original use?

I'm also subsituting some exisitng images with others, such as the Devon Energy Building (Mid America Tower), shown below.



The distortion shown on the building is a result of reflections from Chase and I'll probably defer to your judgment if you think it would be better to have "purer" images.

Thanks!

[Doug Loudenback]

Deleting double-post of the above ... I can't see how to delete messages. Sorry!

[travis]

Cool map Doug, I look forward to checking out your site again when it's complete. I did notice a few things though, and I might be nitpicking here.
There is another rail line just west of Byers that crosses at Reno.
1st Street does not conect to Walnut anymore; that was kind of a blind intersection by the bridge.
There appears to be an on-ramp on to IH235 from 2nd street.
I believe that Walnut and Oklahoma Avenues are supposed to be converted to two-way once the bridge is complete; and sixth street when the intersection with Harrison and Walnut is complete. Otherwise it looks great, I like how you are incorporating the "strips" of smaller building that are around.

[Doug Loudenback]

Cool map Doug, I look forward to checking out your site again when it's complete. I did notice a few things though, and I might be nitpicking here.
There is another rail line just west of Byers that crosses at Reno.
1st Street does not conect to Walnut anymore; that was kind of a blind intersection by the bridge.
There appears to be an on-ramp on to IH235 from 2nd street.
I believe that Walnut and Oklahoma Avenues are supposed to be converted to two-way once the bridge is complete; and sixth street when the intersection with Harrison and Walnut is complete. Otherwise it looks great, I like how you are incorporating the "strips" of smaller building that are around.

Thanks, Travis! No such thing as nitpicking ... I want to get it as right as I'm able.

Yeah, I need to put in the other rail line. If I have time tomorrow, I drive around the other points you mentioned.