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Thread: Hobby Lobby business practices

  1. #101
    MadMonk Guest

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamTell View Post
    -Sorry about that one

    -Exactly - it seems like they stand up for their religious beliefs when its convenient and cost effective for them and they turn a blind eye when it isnt. Hobby Lobby's entire business model is based on buying cheap chinese crap (which we know is built in slave conditions with a LONG history of abuse and forced abortions) and then reselling it to Americans at a higher price. I watched 'Walmarts, the high cost of low price' the other day and the average toy was purchased for something like $0.07 in China and resold for $15.88 here in America. I'm sure Hobby Lobbys business model isnt far off of that number, so if they cant support their christian ideals and bring christian like working conditions to their workers on $15.81 margin per toy then that's b.s. Maybe they should ask themselves, WWJD.

    But now they have a big moral objection to paying a few cents for there American workers to have access to birth control? come on!?!
    Do you have first hand knowledge of this or is this an uninformed opinion? I ask because I know a buyer for Hobby Lobby and she says you have no clue about what you are talking about in this case. She says that Hobby Lobby employs their own people in China to ensure that the quality of the product they buy is rigorously tested and meets the highest standards. In addition, they only use suppliers that agree to wages and working conditions that are in line with the owner's standards. She makes several trips to China every year and sees this for herself. They are apparently pretty good standards because the jobs in those plants are highly sought after. She did say that there have been some exceptions in recent years, and as a result Hobby Lobby began manufacturing the product in-house(this was a yarn product she was talking about) and they make the product here in OKC now.

    It seems that you misunderstand their objection. It's not about the money, it's about medicines that are effectively abortion pills, not regular methods of contraception prevention.

  2. #102
    WilliamTell is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by MadMonk View Post

    -She says that Hobby Lobby employs their own people in China to ensure that the quality of the product they buy is rigorously tested and meets the highest standards

    -They are apparently pretty good standards because the jobs in those plants are highly sought after. She did say that there have been some exceptions in recent years,

    -Hobby Lobby began manufacturing the product in-house(this was a yarn product she was talking about) and they make the product here in OKC now.
    -If they meet the highest quality standards I have some Halloween decorations that I purchased last year that have since melted together for her to refund.

    -Highly sought after jobs - reference my post about the iphone workers at the foxxcon plant. These are probably the highest sought after jobs in the country and they make a whopping 20 dollars a month, work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, forced to live in dorms that you and i would never live in, forced to eat meals at the factory, and have had hundreds of health and safety violations that have been covered up for years. But hey, thousands still line up outside the plant for jobs. Maybe the Hobby Lobby owner should ask himself...What Would Jesus Do?

    Employ modern day slave labor and then tell his state side employees how good those Chinese workers have it compared to the rest of those.......??????

    -Wow, they make yarn here. Kudos to them.

  3. #103
    WilliamTell is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by MadMonk View Post
    It's not about the money, it's about medicines that are effectively abortion pills, not regular methods of contraception prevention.
    I thought this deserved a separate response. So, State sponsored forced abortions for his Chinese workers are OK........but his American workers voluntarily having medical access to the morning after pill is against his religion.

    Why doesnt this guy petition the Chinese government with this nonsense if he gave a damn about his 'highly sought' after Chinese workers.


    I'm a proud Christian. I just get a kick at how other 'Christians' are so quick to down grade and dismiss another human being rights (human and religious) because they are a different color or speak a different language. I'm pretty sure that's not WWJD.

  4. #104
    Easy180 is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by MadMonk View Post
    They are apparently pretty good standards because the jobs in those plants are highly sought after. She did say that there have been some exceptions in recent years, and as a result Hobby Lobby began manufacturing the product in-house(this was a yarn product she was talking about) and they make the product here in OKC now.

    It seems that you misunderstand their objection. It's not about the money, it's about medicines that are effectively abortion pills, not regular methods of contraception prevention.
    Ain't really buying this either...Sure they pretty up the sweat shop I mean factory when the big bad buyer is in town
    Last edited by Easy180; 09-18-2012 at 09:31 PM. Reason: Because

  5. #105
    Double Edge is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Obvious question, if the workers standards are up to the company standard, why are they spending all that time and energy having stuff made in China instead of having it all made in the US? They meant it's up to the company standard for slave labor I suppose.

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    And work where? Another big box store who sells cheap, Chinese-made merchendise? Wal Mart, the bain of the left, doesn't have health care benefits yet has no problem attracting employees. Better to let HL provide 98% of the desired health care benefits that to not provide them at all.
    Which begs some questions...why are they paying people more than the going rate to work for them?

    The only place I found searching for employee satisfaction showed Hobby Lobby score as "dissatisfied" while scores for Walmart, Michaels, Target are "ok". There's not much of a sampling at that site. Perhaps someone else will come up with some better data. But a lot of the comments square with the comments of the only person I know personally who worked for them.

    Hobby Lobby Reviews | Glassdoor
    ^the site at the top of the googler return when you search "hobby lobby employee satisfaction"

    Are they a good employer?

  6. #106
    MadMonk Guest

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamTell View Post
    -If they meet the highest quality standards I have some Halloween decorations that I purchased last year that have since melted together for her to refund.
    Pro-tip: Things melt if they get too hot. Hard to beat that whole physics thing isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamTell View Post
    -Highly sought after jobs - reference my post about the iphone workers at the foxxcon plant. These are probably the highest sought after jobs in the country and they make a whopping 20 dollars a month, work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, forced to live in dorms that you and i would never live in, forced to eat meals at the factory, and have had hundreds of health and safety violations that have been covered up for years. But hey, thousands still line up outside the plant for jobs. Maybe the Hobby Lobby owner should ask himself...What Would Jesus Do?

    Employ modern day slave labor and then tell his state side employees how good those Chinese workers have it compared to the rest of those.......??????

    -Wow, they make yarn here. Kudos to them.
    Please elaborate on the details of how you obtained your experience in dealing with the Chinese culture so that I can compare it to the experience of someone who has been there and has first hand experience. Bonus points if Google or Wikipedia isn't involved.

    I don't consider myself a Christian scholar, but I doubt that Jesus would want someone to go against his deeply held belief that abortion is wrong by providing for the means of performing it.

  7. #107
    MadMonk Guest

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy180 View Post
    Ain't really buying this either...Sure they pretty up the sweat shop I mean factory when the big bad buyer is in town
    She's been there a long time. I'm sure if something was amiss, she would know by now. But hey, how can long term personal experience compete against your preconceived notions based on other company's practices? All companies are alike, right?
    Last edited by MadMonk; 09-18-2012 at 08:58 PM. Reason: Edited for other's privacy

  8. #108
    MadMonk Guest

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamTell View Post
    I thought this deserved a separate response. So, State sponsored forced abortions for his Chinese workers are OK........but his American workers voluntarily having medical access to the morning after pill is against his religion.
    Why doesnt this guy petition the Chinese government with this nonsense if he gave a damn about his 'highly sought' after Chinese workers.
    Did he say that? Do you know whether or not he has worked against this practice or are you talking out your posterior again?

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamTell View Post
    I'm a proud Christian. I just get a kick at how other 'Christians' are so quick to down grade and dismiss another human being rights (human and religious) because they are a different color or speak a different language. I'm pretty sure that's not WWJD.
    Congratulations, even though your comparison is completely inane, your holier than thou quotient just went up 10 points. Jesus would be proud.

  9. #109
    Easy180 is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by MadMonk View Post
    I'm sure if something was amiss, she would know by now. But hey, how can long term personal experience compete against your preconceived notions based on other company's practices? All companies are alike, right?
    When they sell cheap Chinese goods...Yes

  10. #110
    MadMonk Guest

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Obvious question, if the workers standards are up to the company standard, why are they spending all that time and energy having stuff made in China instead of having it all made in the US? They meant it's up to the company standard for slave labor I suppose.
    You DO understand that the standard of living varies between countries, right? Does it mean if I don't make the same as those of similar profession in New York City, I'm working for slave wages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Which begs some questions...why are they paying people more than the going rate to work for them?
    I don't know, maybe to attract better talent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    The only place I found searching for employee satisfaction showed Hobby Lobby score as "dissatisfied" while scores for Walmart, Michaels, Target are "ok". There's not much of a sampling at that site. Perhaps someone else will come up with some better data. But a lot of the comments square with the comments of the only person I know personally who worked for them.

    Hobby Lobby Reviews | Glassdoor
    ^the site at the top of the googler return when you search "hobby lobby employee satisfaction"

    Are they a good employer?
    Interesting. I've worked in retail businesses before and there isn't much I would consider positive about it either, regardless of employer. Retail geneally sucks and I wouldn't wish that job on anyone.

  11. #111
    WilliamTell is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by MadMonk View Post
    Pro-tip: Things melt if they get too hot. Hard to beat that whole physics thing isn't it?
    Yawn. I guess I will elaborate. The 'high quality' hobby lobby items that i purchased last year were melted together and the other decorations from Target and Biglots were not. I guess being stored in a interior closet inside of a tubberware container with other decorations was not the preferred method of storage for 'high quality' hobby lobby items.

    The rest of your post are just deflections away from the actual truth. Go ahead and say it out loud - David Green is responsible for the bondage of Chinese workers and the abortions he requires his workers to get to get to keep there 'highly sought after' jobs that they are so lucky to have. I guess they really do owe Mr. Green their first born (if its a girl).

    I'm so glad Mr. Green has taken a stand to protect all of Gods children. So noble.

  12. #112
    MadMonk Guest

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamTell View Post
    Yawn. I guess I will elaborate. The 'high quality' hobby lobby items that i purchased last year were melted together and the other decorations from Target and Biglots were not. I guess being stored in a interior closet inside of a tubberware container with other decorations was not the preferred method of storage for 'high quality' hobby lobby items.

    The rest of your post are just deflections away from the actual truth.

    Go ahead and say it outloud - David Green is responsible for the bondage of Chinese workers and the abortions he requires his workers to get to get to keep there 'highly sought after' jobs.
    You need some sleep? You keep yawning like you're bored, yet you can't seem to stay away.

    What truth are you talking about? My post detailed how you have no experience on this other than with Internet news stories about other companies. If you are stating your opinion based on a guess, fine; but don't pretend to know everything about it and get all whiny when you are called out on it.

    I'm basing my opinion on a conversation with a lady who has worked there for many years and is one of the most trustworthy and intelligent women I know. You dismiss her information like it's meaningless and seem to maintain that your uninformed opinion somehow holds more weight. If you don't believe me, well, I don't really care, other than its a little insulting (perhaps intentionally), and there's not much I can do about it; I'm only trying to provide some information from someone who's in the know. If you don't value that you are certainly free to remain willfully ignorant and speaking from your derriere. If you had a similar source of information from someone who's actually involved that refutes what she says, that would be a different matter, but you apparently do not. Show me an article detailing the abuses the Chinese workers experience at the hands of the big Hobby Lobby corporate grist mill and I'll change my opinion on the matter.

    LOL at your edited post. I guess DE can put you down as one of the disgruntled former employee contributers to that Glassdoor site.

  13. #113
    boscorama is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    When I was on birth control pills it wasn't covered by my insurance, even though I used them for other purposes besides avoiding pregnancy. I just paid for them. JEEZ!

  14. #114
    Midtowner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by MadMonk View Post
    I don't consider myself a Christian scholar, but I doubt that Jesus would want someone to go against his deeply held belief that abortion is wrong by providing for the means of performing it.
    I don't recall seeing red letters discussing the subject at all.

  15. #115
    Easy180 is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by boscorama View Post
    When I was on birth control pills it wasn't covered by my insurance, even though I used them for other purposes besides avoiding pregnancy. I just paid for them. JEEZ!
    Please be considerate of those who have to choose between paying for birth control pills and a new iPhone 5

  16. #116
    boscorama is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    I heard that.

    Dang ole Reagan didn't care about me. Waah!

  17. #117
    Pete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Pastors protest Hobby Lobby birth control fight

    Published: September 27, 2012

    OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A coalition of liberal Christian groups has come out against Hobby Lobby's lawsuit challenging federal health care guidelines that require companies to provide insurance that covers the morning-after pill.


    Read more: Pastors protest Hobby Lobby birth control fight | NewsOK.com

  18. #118
    Dubya61 is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Pastors protest Hobby Lobby birth control fight

    Published: September 27, 2012

    OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A coalition of liberal Christian groups has come out against Hobby Lobby's lawsuit challenging federal health care guidelines that require companies to provide insurance that covers the morning-after pill.


    Read more: Pastors protest Hobby Lobby birth control fight | NewsOK.com
    Hey, legal minds on OKC Talk. Help me out here. How can this petition be successful? What effect can the organizers of this petition hope to have on Hobby Lobby or their lawsuit?

  19. #119
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    kevinpate is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    The petition has no direct bearing on the litigation itself. It's sole purpose would be to hope to influence the decision makers at HL to make a different decision, up to and including dismissing their lawsuit.

    That hope and a few bucks will get one an overpriced cup of joe at Starbucks.

  20. #120
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    Default Hobby Lobby and health care


  21. #121
    Pete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Judge rules Hobby Lobby must cover employees' contraception

    A federal judge ruled the Oklahoma City-based Hobby Lobby and Mardel must follow contraceptive health insurance rules, rejected arguments that those mandates violated the owners' religious beliefs

  22. #122
    Easy180 is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Judge rules Hobby Lobby must cover employees' contraception

    A federal judge ruled the Oklahoma City-based Hobby Lobby and Mardel must follow contraceptive health insurance rules, rejected arguments that those mandates violated the owners' religious beliefs
    Yay...Golf clap for average joes and joesettes

  23. #123
    onthestrip is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Violate their religious beliefs? Eh, debatable.

    Im glad it was ruled this way. This would have set a very bad precedent. This would basically make an employee be subjected to the whims of what their employer sees as acceptable or what follows their "morals." Why couldnt the Greens of Hobby Lobby decide tomorrow that they thought antibiotics were immoral and then not have to cover that either?

    People always spout that this infringes on their religious freedom but they forget that the employee should also have freedom from their boss' religion.

  24. #124
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Violate their religious beliefs? Eh, debatable.

    Im glad it was ruled this way. This would have set a very bad precedent. This would basically make an employee be subjected to the whims of what their employer sees as acceptable or what follows their "morals." Why couldnt the Greens of Hobby Lobby decide tomorrow that they thought antibiotics were immoral and then not have to cover that either?

    People always spout that this infringes on their religious freedom but they forget that the employee should also have freedom from their boss' religion.
    Exactly. Reading the comments on NewsOK I am shocked by the support for this decision. The vast majority of huge Green company supporters are saying this is good because this is an effort by the Greens to force their religious beliefs on their employees. They will probably try to appeal this to the SCOTUS, but its just going to cost them a ton of money and get them nothing.

  25. #125
    Dubya61 is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    People always spout that this infringes on their religious freedom but they forget that the employee should also have freedom from their boss' religion.
    I am still against the PPACA in its current version and fully support Hobby Lobby's efforts to not be forced to pay for a medical item that they are opposed to. I think that post-conception birth control is wrong in some people's minds and it's wrong to make that part of the PPACA. Lets not forget that people still have the option to decline an offered benefit from your employer. Hobby Lobby's employees have always had freedom from their boss' religion. All they have to do is say, "no, thank you. I'll go get my own insurance." What if Hobby Lobby offers a 401K, but the only investment opportunity for that 401K is in Phillip Morris stock? Someone who doesn't approve of cigarettes can always say, "No thank you, I'll invest and save for my retirement with my own IRA that invests in businesses I agree with more." Now, however, someone who is vehemently opposed to post-conception birth control is going to have to pay for such a service.
    boscorama likes this.

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